HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-09-06 Hearing Transcript - Council Initiated Bill 108, Draft 4WINDWARD PLANNING COMMISSION
COUNTY OF HAWAII
HEARING TRANSCRIPT
SEPTEMBER 6, 2018
A regularly advertised hearing on County Council Initiated Bill No. 108, Draft 4 was called to
order at 9:31 a.m. in the County of Hawaii Aupuni Center Conference Room, 101 Pauahi Street,
Hilo, Hawaii with Chairman Joseph Clarkson presiding.
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Gilbert Aguinaldo, Joseph Clarkson, Donn Dela Cruz (to 12:54
p.m.), Thomas Raffipiy, John Replogle.
ABSENT & EXCUSED: Donald Ikeda.
ALSO PRESENT: Michael Yee (Planning Director), Daryn Arai (Deputy Planning Director)
(to 2:54 p.m.), Amy Self (Deputy Corporation Counsel to the Windward Planning Commission),
Mafia Ho Hall (Deputy Corporation Counsel for the Windward Planning Commission), Jeff
Darrow (Planning Program Manager) (from 2:30 p.m.), Maija Jackson (Planner), Shancy
Watanabe (Planner) (from 9:00 a.m. to 12:21 p.m. and 2:01 p.m. to 3:31 p.m.), Esther Imamura
(Planner), Kim Tanaka (Secretary) (to 11:09 a.m.), and Sarah Hata-Finley (Commission
Secretary).
And 33 members from the public in attendance.
INITIATOR: COUNTY COUNCIL (BILL NO. 108, DRAFT 4)
An Ordinance amending Chapter 25, Article 1, Article 2, Article 4, and Article 5 of the Hawaii
County Code 1983 (2016 edition, as amended), relating to short-term vacation rentals. The
purpose of this bill is to manage the impacts of these short-term vacation rentals by: 1) defining
where this use will be allowed; 2) establishing provisions and standards to regulate this use; and
3) providing an avenue for an existing use deemed to be improper by this ordinance, to apply for
a nonconforming use certificate that would allow them to continue to operate in a non -permitted
district. The County Council has referred Bill 108, Draft 4 to the Planning Director and the
Windward and Leeward Planning Commissions for comment and recommendations.
9:25 a.m. CLARKSON: The next item on the agenda was initiated by the County Council. It's
asked for a review of a proposed Bill No. 108, Draft 4. Oh, I'm sorry, I was recently reminded
that this agenda item was scheduled for 9:30, so we will have to wait for 4-1/2 minutes. We'll
take a 4-1/2 minute recess and then begin discussion of this agenda item.
Chair Clarkson called a recess at 9:25 a.m., and the meeting was reconvened at 9:31 a.m.
CLARKSON: We are recommencing the meeting. Once again, the item on the agenda was
initiated by the County Council. It asked us, the Windward Planning Commission, for our
review of Bill No. 108, Draft 4, and to brief us on this matter, Maija Jackson will be making a
presentation on the Planning Department's review of the draft bill.
EXHIBIT C
JACKSON: Thank you, Chair Clarkson. Good morning, everyone. So, for this presentation,
what I've done is pretty much taken each slide out of the Background Report that we provided to
you and the recommendations that were made. So, you can follow along in your Background
and Recommendation, and I think it might be helpful rather than having me go through all
twenty something slides and then wait for questions. If the Commissioners have questions as
we're going through the slides, if you can just go ahead and interrupt me and ask your questions
at that time, okay?
So, Bill 108, Draft 4 is related to short-term vacation rentals. This bill was initiated by the
Hawaii County Council, and it was referred to the Planning Director and the Windward and
Leeward Planning Commissions for comment and recommendations. The bill adds a new
section to the Zoning Code, and it will amend other sections related to short-term vacation
rentals. The purpose of this bill is to manage the impacts of short-term vacation rentals by
defining where this use will be allowed, establishing provisions and standards to regulate this
use, and providing an avenue for an existing short-term vacation rental deemed to be improper
by the ordinance to apply for a nonconforming use certificate, which would allow them to
continue to operate in a non -permitted district.
So, what is a short-term vacation rental? Bill 108, Draft 4 does not seek to regulate all vacation
rentals that are rented on a short-term basis. Bill 108 defines short-term vacation rentals as a
dwelling unit of which the owner or operator does not reside on the building site, and that's a key
issue there. These are non -hosted or un -hosted vacation rentals, which has no more than five
bedrooms for rent on the building site and is rented for a period of 30 consecutive days or less.
And, the Zoning Code defines a "building site" as a parcel of land or lot. So, basically, it means
the owner or operator has to reside—does not reside on the property. This bill is
CLARKSON: —Let me just ask.
JACKSON: Okay.
CLARKSON: So, there could be multiple buildings, and if one building is used for a short-term
rental and the owner lives in another building, but it's on the same property, that would count as
owner occupied.
JACKSON: So, if there's two dwellings on the property and an owner or operator lives in one of
the dwellings, then it would be considered a hosted rental and so this bill would not apply to
either of the dwellings being rented out.
So, the bill does not cover the rental of a dwelling unit where an operator or owner lives on the
property such as dwellings or other buildings where six or more rooms are rented. You notice if
we go back to the definition, it specifically says which has no more than five bedrooms for rent.
So, buildings or dwellings that have six or more rooms are considered hotels, inns, or lodges in
the Zoning Code even if they occur within a dwelling. So, the bill would not apply to those uses.
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This bill also would not apply to dwellings where no more than five bedrooms are rented for a
period of 180 consecutive days or less, when the owner or operator resides on the building site.
These are considered hosted short-term rentals and can include a bed and breakfast establishment
or renting rooms of a dwelling on a short-term basis to not more than five unrelated people,
which is defined as a "family" in the Zoning Code. A bed and breakfast establishment allows up
to ten guests within the five bedrooms and the service of continental breakfast meals.
The bill also does not cover dwellings rented on a long-term basis which is typically six months
or longer. So, does the Commission have any questions on what a short-term vacation is as
defined in this bill? No? Okay.
CLARKSON: Iexcuse me.
JACKSON: Yes, Joe.
CLARKSON: Why is the—why is the word "vacation" in the bill? I mean, I'm just, if
somebody is coming and renting a room but they are there on business, does that not make it a
vacation rental? I mean, why isn't it just short-term rental for any purpose?
JACKSON: Because that's how the bill was drafted.
CLARKSON: Okay.
JACKSON: And, I'm assuming the intent of the bill was to capture situations, was to mainly
capture situations where an entire dwelling is rented out to one group at a time, and there's not
some type of operator or host on-site.
CLARKSON: Okay, thank you.
JACKSON: So, I'm again assuming that situations like travelling nurses and business guests
would typically be staying in a hosted rental where somebody lives on the property and just one
room is rented out for them to use.
So, where are short-term vacation rentals permitted? The bill identifies the following zoning
districts and areas where existing and new short-term vacation rentals can operate as a permitted
use. This is the Resort -Hotel zoning district; General Commercial zoning district; Downtown
Hilo Commercial District; and Village Commercial zoning districts with a Use Permit; and all
zoning districts within areas designated by the County General Plan as Resort or Resort Node,
except that a Use Permit is required in the Single -Family Residential zoning district within those
Resort or Resort Node areas.
So, outside of those five areas, new short-term vacation rentals are not permitted but existing
short-term vacation rentals may continue to operate if the Planning Director issues a
nonconforming use certificate. Any questions on where short-term vacation rentals are
permitted? Okay.
EXHIBIT C
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So, how are existing short-term vacation rentals permitted? So, when we first got Bill 108 in the
Planning Department and read through it, there was a little confusion as to whether the County
Council wanted all existing and new short-term vacation rentals to register or not because the
way the bill is worded, it only requires registration of some existing and new vacation rentals.
So, staff talked to the initiators of this bill at County Council and got some clarity on that, and
the intent of the bill was to have all existing and new short-term vacation rentals register with the
Planning Department within six months of adoption of the ordinance. In addition to registration,
those short-term vacation rentals outside of permitted zoning districts will also need to apply for
a nonconforming use certificate.
However, the bill does not require owners of existing short-term vacation rentals in the CV
zoning district or RS district in the Resort areas to register, and that actually needs to be fixed
based on what County Council discussed with staff as the intent of the bill. So, we've added
Recommendation No. 7, which would fix that and require all short-term vacation rentals to
register.
Let's see, so as I mentioned, the bill intent is to require all new short-term vacation rentals that
are established in zoning districts where they are permissible. I'm sorry, let me back up here.
How are new short-term vacation rentals permitted? Okay, so the bill requires registration of all
new short-term vacation rentals established in the zoning districts where the use is permissible.
Those were those five areas that I showed you earlier. But, the bill does not require registration
of new short-term vacation rentals that may be established outside of permissible zoning
districts. This would include the County Agricultural zoning district on land in the State Land
Use Agricultural District with a Special Permit. So, that's another area that would need to be
fixed based on what Council has informed staff as the intent of the bill.
REPLOGLE: I have a question and it's regarding the nonconforming use certificate? So, that
would mean if you were not in one of the permissible zonings for a vacation rental, you can
apply for this nonconforming use certificate?
JACKSON: Yes.
REPLOGLE: And, have a vacation rental there if it's approved?
JACKSON: You can apply for, I'm sorry, you can apply for a nonconforming use certificate for
existing vacation rentals.
REPLOGLE: But not new?
JACKSON: Not new ones, no. The idea is to not allow new short-term vacation rentals in areas
outside of where the County Council is proposing they be permitted.
REPLOGLE: The zoning that they're saying.
JACKSON: Yeah.
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REPLOGLE: Okay.
JACKSON: Okay, so moving on to the registration process. That process includes submitting a
form and a $250 filing fee to the Planning Department. Along with that application form, the
submittal needs to include a site plan showing the location of the rooms for rent and the required
parking. The Zoning Code currently requires one parking space for each rented bedroom in
addition to one space for the dwelling unit if rooms are rented individually, so if you have a
dwelling with three rooms rented, you would need to have four parking spaces if the rooms are
rented individually. Or two parking spaces if the dwelling unit is rented as a whole.
With the application, verification that State of Hawaii general excise tax and transient
accommodation tax licenses are in effect would also need to be submitted along with verification
that a letter has been sent to all surrounding owners and lessees within 300 feet of the property.
The letter needs to notify them of the details of the operation of the vacation rental such as the
number of units being rented, the maximum number of guests permitted, the number and location
of parking spaces, and instructions on how to submit complaints to the Planning Department
about the operation.
RAFFIPIY: Question.
JACKSON: Yes?
RAFFIPIY: So, the letter, the verification letter is only to notify the neighbors, not to ask them
for any permission at all, right?
JACKSON: No.
RAFFIPIY: Just to notify them that they do have an operation within the neighborhood.
JACKSON: Yes.
RAFFIPIY: Thank you.
JACKSON: Just to notify them that they are registering for this use with the Planning
Department.
The bill requires that owners of short-term vacation rentals notify the Planning Director of
ownership changes or when the establishment ceases to operate for any reason.
Let's see, and the slide says, but these provisions are under the registration section, so it's not
clear if they apply to all short-term vacation rentals, but again, Council clarified that the intent
was to have applied to all short-term vacation rentals so we can make that correction in the bill.
Any short-term vacation rental that is not registered within the required deadlines is considered
unpermitted and subject to penalties until the short-term vacation rental becomes properly
registered and compliant with the requirements of the bill.
EXHIBIT C
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So, moving on to the nonconforming use certificate process, but before I do that, does the
Commission have any questions about the registration process? No? Okay.
So, owners of existing short-term vacation rentals located outside of a permitted zoning district
must submit an application for a nonconforming use certificate to the Director within a 180 days
of the effective date of the ordinance should this bill become law. The owner must provide
evidence to prove that the short-term vacation rental was in operation prior to the effective date
of the ordinance. Evidence can include tax documents such as Hawaii State General Excise Tax
filings or TAT tax filings and Federal and State income tax returns. Based on the evidence
submitted, the Director shall determine whether to issue the nonconforming use certificate.
Current nonconforming use certificates must be displayed on the premises so that it is clearly
visible to the guests and to zoning inspectors.
The bill indicates that a nonconforming use certificate may be issued for short-term vacation
rentals on land in the State Land Use Agricultural District provided the lot existed before
June 4th, 1976. The reason for this date is that all dwellings on lots created after June 4th, 1976,
are considered by State law to be farm dwellings which are to be used to house farm workers
rather than vacationers or renters.
And, just for a little context, there are, compared to other islands, like I just spoke to Kauai
yesterday and they have very few lots that were created before 1976, Hawaii County has a lot, a
lot of lots created prior to '76. Most of the big subdivisions in Puna were created prior to '76 so
State law considers the first dwelling on those lots to be a single-family dwelling rather than a
farm dwelling.
CLARKSON: But even a lot in an agricultural district that has a farm dwelling in which the
farm operators live can also have guest houses, so would—let's see, wait a minute, that would be
hosted then so that is not relevant to this.
JACKSON: Yes.
CLARKSON: Sorry.
JACKSON: No problem. Okay, so the nonconforming use certificate once it's issued, it must be
renewed annually on or before the expiration date indicated on the certificate and a $250 filing
fee is required with the renewal request. Renewal of the certificate may be denied by the
Director if the applicant has violated provisions of the bill or other pertinent laws or if the owner
is delinquent in payment of County taxes, fees, fines, or penalties, if the owner or reachable
person has not been reachable or available when needed, and if there have been police reports or
verified neighbor complaints of noise or other disturbance.
The bill says the Director must deny renewal of a certificate obviously if the use is abandoned
for any reason for a continuous period of 12 calendar months. So, I just want to make a
distinction here, too, that the new short and existing short-term vacation rentals in permitted
districts are not required to renew annually. It's only those that require the nonconforming use
certificate.
EXHIBIT C
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HALL: Sorry, Maija.
JACKSON: Yes.
HALL: One question. Is it supposed to bean "or" then or is it an "and" for all those three, like
would they have to have all those things wrong or just one of those things like 1, 2, 3 or 4.
JACKSON: That's a good question.
HALL: `Cause it says "and" but I think it should be "or."
JACKSON: Let me check how it's worded in the bill because it should be an "or."
HALL: Yeah.
JACKSON: In the bill it's an "or." I'm sorry.
HALL: No worries, thank you.
JACKSON: Okay, so the Director must provide the decision to deny renewal of a certificate in
writing, and the owner may appeal the decision to the Board of Appeals within 30 days of receipt
of the decision.
There's another section of the bill that deals with loss of nonconforming short-term vacation
rentals due to emergencies. It requires that the Planning Director assess the effect of a
permanent loss of nonconforming short-term vacation rentals when a declared emergency occurs
such as lava inundation that recently happened to Kapoho and the Leilani Estates area. The
Director can initiate legislative and/or administrative opportunities to restore losses to short-term
vacation rental capacity within the affected district.
So, standards for operation of a short-term vacation rental. This would apply to all short-term
vacation rentals, new and existing. The bill requires that they have an owner or reachable person
that resides within the County, and I didn't put it in the slide, but let me just read what a
reachable person is as defined in the bill. It says "reachable" means being able to respond via
telephone to a request from a guest, neighbor, or County agency for his or her presence within
one hour of receiving that request and be physically present at the short-term vacation rental
within three hours of receiving a call from a guest, neighbor, or County agency when that guest,
neighbor, or County agency requests the presence of the reachable person. So, available to call
back within one hour and available to be at the site within three hours.
Okayoh, I did put that in there. Great! Let's see here—
CLARKSON: I have a question about long term. Don't long-term rental units have to have a
registered agent?
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JACKSON: I'm not sure on long term. You mean more than
CLARKSON: —Yeah, you know just a regular house that's being rented
JACKSON: —180 days?
CLARKSON: It was my understanding that there had to be somebody listed as the rental agent
for that house. Why there wouldn't be at least that kind of a requirement although the reachable
person, I guess, would be considered an agent.
JACKSON: It could be, yeah.
HALL: Yeah, there's usually like a landlord -tenant agreement so when you have a contract in
place, then that would lay out who—you know who the landlord is and they're responsible for
the dwelling basically so that's who you contact and then this kind of creates that as well. It's a
reachable person that can actually be there, though.
JACKSON: Let's see, so the owners are also required to notify the Planning Department of any
changes to the contact info for the reachable person. All short-term vacation rentals must abide
by a good -neighbor policy. This requires the owner or reachable person to make sure the
activities taking place in the rental conform to the character of the surrounding neighborhood.
The policy must be displayed on the premises and included in the rental agreement. The policy
includes quiet hours from 9 p.m. to 8 a.m., ensuring that sounds outside of quiet hours do not
exceed what is normal for a residential area, prohibiting machines or devices that generate loud
noises, and ensuring that guests park on-site in designated parking areas.
Other standards that all short-term vacation rentals must abide by include displaying on the back
of a door a copy of the registration or nonconforming use certificate and the reachable person's
name and phone number. They also need to include the registration number or nonconforming
that should say "and" nonconforming use certificate number on all forms of advertising as well
as comply with the Sign Code and parking requirements in the Zoning Code.
So, complaints and enforcement. The bill requires the Planning Director to receive and track
complaints regarding short-term vacation rentals, and to provide information about the rules,
policies, and procedures to property owners, managers, neighbors, and the general public. The
Director is also responsible for adopting rules of practice and procedure to implement the
provisions of this bill.
To enforce the provisions of the bill, the inspectors within the Planning Department will be able
to rely on any advertising offering the property as a short-term vacation rental as evidence that
the rental is operating on the property. The burden of proof will be on the owner to establish that
the rental is being operated legally or the property is not being used as a short-term vacation
rental. And, the bill—yes?
CLARKSON: Let's go back to advertising.
EXHIBIT C
JACKSON: Okay.
CLARKSON: I have never used a short-term vacation rental. I've heard the words Airbnb, but
I've never even looked at their site. IsI don't know how it works. Does the advertising direct
the potential user to contact the owner directly and pay them directly? Or is contact and payment
made through the platform agency like Airbnb? In other words, if the staff of the Planning
Department were looking at all the short-term vacation rental advertisers, how would they know
who was being advertised?
JACKSON: So, I believe that anyone could go on Airbnb and search for a unit and then
everything is done electronically like through email. They, there's usually a calendar that you
can ask to reserve a certain period of time and then somehow an email must be generated to the
owner and let them know that someone wants to rent their unit for this period of time. And, then
the payment arrangement is made through the website.
But, as far as like how do you know what unit or where the unit is located, these sites usually
have really general information. They don't always list like the address of the property, so that
would from an enforcement perspective be really difficult to match a property with an address
unless it's listed on the hosting platform website.
CLARKSON: So, does the State get that information when the hosting platform sends the TAT
that they collect to the State?
JACKSON: I don't know that answer.
CLARKSON: Or, do they even do that? Is this all being done outside normal tax collection
law? Well, that, I'm just asking.
JACKSON: I don't know that answer.
CLARKSON: Okay.
JACKSON: Okay, so the bill also proposes to establish a short-term vacation rental enforcement
account which would be administered by the Planning Director for the purpose of enforcing this
vacation rental law. The account will be funded by fees collected for registration, fees collected
for renewal of nonconforming use certificates, and fines collected from enforcement action.
So
CLARKSON: —Can I just ask another question of Department staff? So, if you were asked to
develop a list of all the short-term vacation rentals on the Big Island, could it be done? They're
in operation right now. Is there any way for the Department to actually know what's going on?
REPLOGLE: No.
YEE: They're not registered with us now, so we would have to compile a list.
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CLARKSON: But, you think you could compile a list based on public information if they fail to
register?
YEE: I see Amy Self walking up, so, I have a sense she'd like to chime in.
SELF: If I may. This is—the whole purpose behind this—
CLARKSON: Please introduce yourself.
SELF: I'm sorry. Amy Self, Deputy Corporation Counsel. I represent the Planning Department
and Planning Director.
The whole purpose of Bill 108 is to require people to register because right now there is no law.
There's nothing, no law against someone renting their house out as a short-term vacation rental.
There's nothing defined in the Zoning Code for that so the use of that property is as a single-
family dwelling. As long as they meet the definition of a single-family dwelling, there's, they're
not required to register or anything else, and that's why the purpose of this bill is so that they can
track how many short-term vacation rentals there are in this County. There's no way to know
right now because you can do it. It's not illegal.
CLARKSON: No, my question related to the—let's just say there was some lack of
communication and someone who didn't know they were supposed to register didn't. How
would the enforcement agency, which is the Planning Department apparently according to this
bill, determine that? In other words, I just wanted my questions about Airbnb and everything is
how is anybody going to know whether this law is being followed or not if it becomes an
ordinance?
SELF: Well, it's like any other zoning violation. It's complaint driven. So, someone files a
complaint with the Planning Department saying that someone is operating a short-term vacation
rental because they saw it on the Internet or whatever and that they know that they haven't
registered, then the Planning Department would be required to go out and investigate and there
are all kinds of ways that they could find out whether or not this, whether these people are
operating legally. It would be the same enforcement that's under the current Zoning Code. So, it
would be complaint driven.
CLARKSON: Thank you.
RAFFIPIY: I have a question, Mr. Chair. I see the enforcement, and I see the inspection. All I
can see now is dollars as far as support to here, the Planning Department. Is that bill addressing
funding positions to, you know, to man up these? And, I can see inspectors out there to do
inspections, and so I'm just wondering if that's factored into it or if they thought about it, man up
your Department, sir.
YEE: During testimony to the Council, I certainly pointed out that without inspectors,
enforcement would be very, very difficult. The bill does not, does not, cannot address placing
new positions in that, but I think clearly with the intent of Council, our budget will have to be
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increased to be able to provide those positions. They've all heard the stories, and this is all about
enforcement, so I don't think they're absent of knowing it, that the other counties when they
instituted their vacation rental bills, many of them were hiring, you know, four plus inspectors
just to deal with vacation rentals. So, they know it's a robust situation. In terms of setting up the
special account, I think they were acknowledging that we would need as many resources as
possible to try to be timely on our enforcement, too.
RAFFIPIY: And, I supposed the fee will be used to pay for or to fund those positions and not
raising any taxes, outside the fees?
YEE: I'll be diplomatic and say that I leave that as a policy -decision for the Council.
RAFFIPIY: Thank you very much.
CLARKSON: Any further questions on this slide? Please proceed, Maija.
JACKSON: So, that kind of concludes the portion of the presentation on what the bill includes.
And, so next, I'm going to go onto the Planning Director's recommendations, but does the
Commission have any other questions about what the bill does or does not include at this point?
No? Okay.
So, the Planning Director is recommending that the Commissions send a favorable
recommendation of Bill 108, Draft 4 to the Council. We have several recommended revisions,
though. And, some of the revisions are really minor. They're just housekeeping issues, and then
others are more substantial. So, we'll go through them one at a time.
The first one is fairly basic. We're suggesting changing the title of the bill and references
throughout the bill to "un -hosted short-term vacation rental" just to clarify for the public and
staff that this bill does not apply to hosted rentals because just reading the title without reading
the definition, you, at first glance, you would think it applies to all short-term vacation rentals in
the County. So, that's one recommendation.
The second recommendation, if you look at the definition of short-term vacation rental in the bill
that's on page 6, the last sentence of the definition says, "this definition shall not apply to the
short-term use of an owner's primary residence as defined under the Internal Revenue Code."
And, so we're not exactly sure what that means, what is or isn't allowed under the Internal
Revenue Code. So, we're asking that the County Council either clarify the definition or just cite
exactly what the IRC allows or does not allow. That would be helpful for the public and also for
our Department enforcement staff
CLARKSON: Is there anyone here representing the Council?
JACKSON: Not that I know of
CARTER (from audience): I'm here.
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JACKSON: Hi Sunshine.
CARTER (from audience): I'll take information and present it to the Council.
CLARKSON: But, you can't clarify the Council's understanding of this—
CARTER (from audience): No, I would have to ask the initiator.
CLARKSON: Okay.
JACKSON: So, the third recommendation is to add to the definition that dwellings where more
than five bedrooms are rented are defined in the Zoning Code as inns, lodges, or hotels. And,
that's again just for the public and staff so that it's really clear what—what a short-term vacation
rental under this bill is. There are references in the Zoning Code, but you'd have to go to the
inns, lodges, or hotels definition to find it. So, just to make it easier.
Okay, so the fourth recommendation is regarding the permitted uses section, so in your bill, that
would be on page 1. And, it says, "Short-term vacation rentals; where permitted, specific
prohibitions." So, right now, the bill says, "Short-term vacation rentals shall be permitted in the"
under (B), it says "CV district, provided that a use permit is obtained for each use..." And, the
Director is recommending removing the requirement for a Use Permit to establish a new short-
term vacation rental in the Village -Commercial zoning district.
The reason for that is that a lot of the small, rural towns around the island consist only of CV
zoning. The only commercial zoning in those villages is CV, and land uses within these villages
include b&b's along with a lot of service-oriented commercial businesses like restaurants, art
galleries, just general retail establishments. Those rely on customers that are both residents and
tourists in order to be successful.
So, requiring a Use Permit, as you know, it's somewhat of a lengthy process. The Use Permits
are approved by you folks, the Planning Commission, and there is a filing fee. They typically
take at least 90 days to get through the Planning Commission for a decision. So, the idea is
rather than require a Use Permit, it doesn't necessarily make sense in these areas because these
are already, you know, little commercial towns. The Use Permit criteria you're usually looking
at—does, is there adequate infrastructure, and does it have an impact on the surrounding
community. Typically, adequate infrastructure is already in place in these little rural towns, and
the adjacent uses are other commercial -type businesses, so your impact on these surrounding
communities isn't very substantial. So, that's the reason for that recommendation. Did you have
any questions?
Okay, the recommendation five. So, this one is also in the same section if you look at page 1 of
the bill, under (C), (a)(1)(C), currently it says short-term vacation rentals shall be permitted in
the "General Plan Resort areas and Resort Node, except that RS districts in the General Plan
Resort areas and Resort Node shall require a use permit." We are asking that that wording just
be changed up a little. The Zoning Code doesn't often times refer to the General Plan
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designations because it's a zoning code, so it really focuses on uses allowed in each zoning
district.
So, keeping the same intent of what the County Council was going for but just rewording it to
say, "All zoning districts, except Open, situated in the General Plan Resort and Resort Node
areas, provided that a use permit is obtained in the RS zoning District." And, this is—this is
really just more for clarification and to help keep the existing structure of the Zoning Code. Did
you have any questions on that one?
CLARKSON: I'm confused. So, the first part lists different zoning districts
JACKSON: Yeah
CLARKSON: where they will be permitted, and then you're referring to General Plan areas—
JACKSON: Mm-hmm
CLARKSON: Wouldn't it make more sense to just list all the zoning districts where they're
permitted and list all the ones where they're not?
JACKSON: We could do that. We could list every zoning district in the General Plan Resort
area.
CLARKSON: Well, I mean, how many different ones are there?
JACKSON: There's probably just off the top of my head—at least six, maybe eight.
CLARKSON: Well, but that would make it
JACKSON: We can format it that way
CLARKSON: —since you're, I mean, like there's, I don't know what the names of them are,
but there's like resort one, resort two, resort three?
JACKSON: So, just as an example, you're recommending changing it to like RM, which is
Multi -Family Residential, situated in the General Plan Resort and Resort Node area. Correct?
And, then CN, situated in the General Plan. List each of them like, like that?
CLARKSON: Well, it would be helpful to me to see a zoning map that was of a Resort area—
JACKSON: Okay
CLARKSON: —and to see what different kinds of zoning were in that area.
JACKSON: Okay.
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CLARKSON: But, II think it would be clear to say, clearer for the bill to either list all of
those places where it's permitted or say it's permitted everywhere except, and list all those place
where it's not permitted. I mean, just to make it, you would be able to look on any zoning map
and say, well, yes, there, yes, there, no. Rather than have to look at a zoning map and then look
at a General Plan to see where the Resort Nodes are.
JACKSON: Right, but I think the County Council wanted to not allow it in every RM zoning
district. They only wanted to allow it in the RM zoning districts in Resort areas, and so that's
why they made that distinction. So, like I said, this recommendation is keeping that intent of
what Council is recommending or proposing, but restructuring it to fit in that Zoning Code style
more.
CLARKSON: Okay, thank you.
JACKSON: Any other questions on that one? John? Okay. All right, recommendation number
six is to add the following language to the first section where—let me just make sure I have that
right. Yeah, so this would be added to that very first section on page 1 under (A) probably as a
number three, yeah, number three after number two. Do you see where that is on page 1 of the
bill, (a)(1), this would be (3). So "Special Permits in the State land use agricultural district shall
not be issued to permit short-term vacation rentals in farm dwellings since State law requires
farm dwellings be used to house farm workers rather than vacationers."
And, again, the reason for this, as I mentioned before, was that State law allows the
Commissions to issue a Special Permit for any land use that is reasonable and unusual and is
consistent with State land use law related to lands within the Agricultural District, even if the
land use is not specifically listed in the Zoning Code as a permitted use for that zoning district.
So, in this case, the way the bill is set up, short-term vacation rentals are not listed as a permitted
use in the agricultural zoning district, but as you know, the Commission still has the authority to
grant a Special Permit for any use in the State Land Use Agricultural District.
So, let's see, where was I? And, as we discussed before, farm dwellings are all dwellings
situated on lots created after June 4th, 1976. Farm dwellings are also additional farm dwellings
on lots created before June 1976 in the State Land Use Agricultural District. They are defined as
a Single -Family dwelling located on and used in connection with a farm or where ag activity
provides income to the family occupying the dwelling. Since a short-term vacation rental is
defined in the bill as "un -hosted," there would be no one on-site that would work on the farm or
gain income from working on the farm. Typically, visitors that come to work on farms for ag
tourism experience are staying in a "hosted" vacation rental rather than an "un -hosted" short-
term vacation rental. So, that's the reason for this proposed language in the permitted uses or
permitted areas section. Are there any questions on that recommendation from the Commission?
REPLOGLE: Yes, so let's say you were a coffee farmer and you have housing for workers and
when it's not coffee season, you are allowed to have those as vacation rentals on ag zoned land?
JACKSON: No. As un -hosted vacation rentals?
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REPLOGLE: No, you're a farmer, so you live,
JACKSON: Oh, yes
REPLOGLE: to get to your farm.
JACKSON: Yes, if you're farming, and you want to have guests that aren't farm workers come
and stay on the farm, you can do that under the ag tourism section of our Zoning Code which
requires a Special Permit.
REPLOGLE: Okay, thank you.
JACKSON: You're welcome. Okay, recommendation number 7. This one is the one I
mentioned earlier in the presentation when I was explaining the bill, and it's basically just to
suggest reformatting the proposed registration subsection to require that all existing short-term
vacation rentals submit a registration form to the Department within the 180 days. The way the
bill is worded now, and I can point you to this section, it's a little bit confusing. So, if you could
look at the bottom of page 1 of the bill and the top of page 2, it says, "Registration of all short-
term vacation rentals" is the heading. It says, "Short-term vacation rentals in existence on or
before the effective date of this ordinance... Shall register with the planning department and pay
a one-time fee of $250 ... if they exist within the following zoning districts." And, then you'll
notice on the next page, it lists the V, CG, and CDH zoning districts, but it does not list the CV
zoning district, which was one of the districts that the Council had listed as a permitted zoning
district.
It also does not list zoning districts where a nonconforming use certificate would be required, so
outside of the permitted zoning districts. So, this section could be restructured to basically end
the sentence after (b)(1)(A) and just say short-term vacation rentals in existence on or before the
effective date of this ordinance shall register with the Planning Department and pay a one-time
fee of two -fifty to the Director of Finance. And, not reference which zoning districts because
that, that will mean that everyone that's in existence with a short-term vacation rental will have
to register.
So, that is recommendation seven. Are there any questions on that one?
CLARKSON: And, now, so everybody has to register?
JACKSON: Correct.
CLARKSON: But, if you're in a—but, I thought there was a difference between a one-time
registration for people who are in the permitted zoning and an annual registration for people who
aren't and have to get a nonconforming use certificate.
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JACKSON: Yeah, so everyone has to register and then those outside of a permitted zoning
district, existing short-term vacation rentals outside of a permitted zoning district, also have to
get the nonconforming use certificate and that certificate is renewed annually. Correct.
AGUINALDO: I have a question, Chair. Do we know all the short-term vacation rentals? How
do we know that these buggahs not going come and pay? Do we know? I mean, I see a lot of
people here, maybe in for or against. How will we regulate that because basically we don't go
on the computer on-line looking all these short-term vacation rentals? How are we really going
to know that they gonna comply and pay that fee? Is there a way we going know?
HALL: Like Amy Self said before, we're counting on the neighbors actually to regulate for us if
you have an issue. It's complaint driven so that's how you know, and also I mean, technically
you could go on line and look at all the advertisements and then you can just enter in the address
that you're looking in, and you'll—all the vacation rentals in the area will pop up, you know,
regardless. It might not tell you the exact address, but it's going to tell you what area it's in and,
you know, you can kind of figure it out, but for the most part, yeah, it's complaint driven, so
we're looking to, you know, the neighbors if there's an issue to come in and let us know. Or let
the Planning Department know.
AGUINALDO: Okay, thank you. Thank you.
JACKSON: Okay, recommendation eight, let's see, this is a real minor one. We're just
requesting that the word "permanently" be added to this section to say that the owner of a short-
term vacation rental shall notify the Director when the short-term vacation rental permanently
ceases to operate.
Recommendation nine. So this one is on page 3 of the proposed bill. It's kind of at the top part
of the bill, and the current wording says that a, "Sound generated by any machine or device that
is audible at a distance of fifty feet from the machine or device producing the sound is
prohibited." So, this is one of the good -neighbor policies, and it's not really clear what type of
devices are prohibited in this section. For example, it seems that equipment used to maintain a
rental like lawnmowers and leaf blowers would be prohibited. And, so if you look at the good -
neighbor policy just above that, it says that, "sound that is audible beyond the property
boundaries during non -quiet hours shall not be more excessive than would be otherwise
associated with a residential use." The Director feels like that, that provision is sufficient, and so
we're asking that the County Council either clarify exactly what types of machine or devices
they're wanting to prohibit or completely remove that section and just rely on the provision
above that.
Okay, recommendation ten. We're suggesting that a sentence instructing the Director to
establish and maintain a list of all short-term vacation rentals that have registered or received a
nonconforming use certificate be added. Right now, the bill requires that the Director track all
complaints but does not require the Director to keep an up-to-date list of active short-term
vacation rentals in the County. Any questions on that one?
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CLARKSON: And, I'm assuming that list would be made publicly available on the Internet or
some other way so that if a person who was thinking of making a complaint could find out right
away whether they were registered or not.
JACKSON: Yes, it would be made available to the public. How that's done, I'm not actually
sure, whether it would be Internet or at the Department.
Okay, recommendation 11. This one is just for clarity. If you look at this section of the bill
which is on page 3 kind of towards the bottom, it says, it currently says, "The director shall adopt
rules, in accordance with chapter 91, Hawaii Revised Statutes, for the purpose of implementing
this subsection" and so we're just asking that subsection be changed to "implementing the
sections of Chapter 25 related to short-term vacation rentals. So, that's—that's just a real minor
one.
And, recommendation 12. This is a recommendation to reword this section on page 4 of the bill.
In the middle of the page, currently, it says, "Agricultural lands. A short-term vacation rental
nonconforming use certificate may be issued for single-family dwellings on lots existing before
June 4, 1976 located in the State land use agricultural district." And, so we're suggesting adding
the word "only." "May only be issued for those single-family dwellings." This is to clarify that
nonconforming use certificates will not be issued for short-term vacation rentals on lots created
after June 4, 1976, pursuant to State law in the Agricultural District, because it requires that farm
dwellings be used only to house farm workers. Any questions on that one? Okay, we're almost
done.
Recommendation 13 is to add this language to the bill that the renewal request and renewal fee
this is for the nonconforming use certificate—was not received on or before the expiration date
indicated on the certificate, and so this will clarify that renewal requests received after the
expiration date will not be renewed. And, that is on page 4 at the bottom of the page, very last
sentence. This is related to denial of a request to renew a nonconforming use certificate. Any
questions?
RAFFIPIY: Question. So, if they miss the deadline, and they don't get their renewal, I mean
they don't get the renewal, so in effect that they ceased operation completely.
JACKSON: That's correct. And, in talking to Kauai County staff because they've been
regulating short-term vacation rentals for a while now, they actually suggested that when the
Department issues the first nonconforming use certificate, in that letter that's sent to the owner,
you know, we highlight then when the renewal date is as like a reminder. So, obviously, if the
Department can help give the owner a heads up of that renewal date then I think that will help
prevent these renewals from lapsing.
RAFFIPIY: If somebody decides to pay five years in advance, can they do that?
JACKSON: Not under this bill.
RAFFIPIY: Thank you.
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REPLOGLE: So, next coming up will be when you don't renew your car registration, you will
be denied your car? People are going to make investments in these things.
JACKSON: Right, so
REPLOGLE: Things happen.
JACKSON: Right.
REPLOGLE: I'm not trying to make excuses for them, but that's pretty harsh. It's almost as
though the intent is to get rid of vacation rentals, nonconforming, and bring them into the Resort
complex.
JACKSON: That is generally the intent of the bill, is to direct new vacation rentals into the
Resort and Commercial areas.
REPLOGLE: Thank you.
JACKSON: Recommendation 14. So, we're actually changing this recommendation a little bit.
In your Background and Recommendation report, it has all of that language there, and we're
actually recommending removing references to the residential occupancy. So, to ensure that
short-term vacation rentals meet basic health and safety standards, consider adding requirements
that the rental complies with Fire, Building, and sanitation codes. For example, to address the
Building Code, a requirement in the registration section could be added that a short-term
vacation rental may only be established within a dwelling for which the Building Division has
issued and finalized building, electrical, and plumbing permits as a dwelling.
And, you have in your package a memo from the Fire Department and the Building Division
explaining some of the health and safety standards that they're suggesting. The bill should also
consider the impact on staffing resources for the Fire and Building Departments since it's likely
that inspectors from these departments will be called out more frequently to inspect the short-
term vacation rentals for Code compliance. Currently, the bill only provides that enforcement
account to the Planning Department, but does not give any additional resources to Fire or
Building Departments to enforce this bill.
And, I think this is the last one, recommendation 15 would be to create increased fines for
violation of this bill. The Maui and Kauai County Planning Departments have informed the
Director that because short-term vacation rentals are a very profitable business, the fines need to
be high enough to discourage violation of the proposed law. Our current Zoning Code violation
fines start at $100 per day plus a one-time civil fine of $500, and many of the short-term, the
non -hosted, right, short-term vacation rentals in our County are offered at $100 a night and more,
so if the fees aren't aligned to discourage the short-term vacation rental and the owner will still
be able to generate an income even after paying fines, then they're not going to be willing to
comply with the law.
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And, just for a little context, I think City & County of Honolulu are proposing to change their
short-term vacation rental law and require, I think it was a $15,000 or $25,000 fine. So, our fees
are very small in comparison.
Oh, we have one more. One housekeeping measure. This is the last one. So, one of the
permitted uses—one of the permitted zoning districts for short-term vacation rentals listed in the
very beginning of the bill was the CDH District, the Downtown Hilo Commercial District. But,
if you look through the end of the bill where they start to list each section of the Zoning Code
where these are permitted, somehow the CDH District is missing. So, this is just a housekeeping
measure to add short-term vacation rentals to the permitted uses section of the CDH District.
And, that concludes my presentation. I just want to bring to your attention some testimony that's
been received since you received your Background and Recommendation packages. This
morning, you should have received an email from Lourdes Racela, an email from Brian
Frederickson, and you should also have a letter dated September 4th from Airbnb, an email
September Pt from Stefan Buchtaactually, you should have two emails from him, one dated
September Pt at 8:24 and one at 11:34—and, then lastly, an email from Ranae dated August 31st
Are there any other questions?
CLARKSON: Hearing none, I think it's time to proceed to public testimony. Thank you, Maija.
RAFFIPIY: Mr. Chair, can I make a motion to take a five-minute break so we can go use the
restroom before we proceed into public testimony?
CLARKSON: I think we want to have at least a little bit of testimony before we do that if that's,
if you can hold it.
RAFFIPIY: I'm going to use the bathroom, Mr. Chair.
CLARKSON: We'll start getting people organized here and hopefully Commissioner Raffipiy
willso, right now, everybody who wants to testify has signed up with the folks at the front
desk I'm assuming. I have a list of 22 people. Everybody's going to be given three minutes to
testify, and we're going to be calling up four people at a time, except for our first testifier who
will be the Mayor, and everybody will take their turn. If everybody uses their three minutes, that
adds up to over an hour at least of testimony, so we will be taking a break soon during the middle
of testimony, but not quite yet.
YEE: Chair, if—can we go back to the previous slide real quickly? I'm going to buy us some
time here.
JACKSON: Which one?
YEE: Recommendation 15 which was on fines. I just want to comment because this came up
quite often during Council hearings. I think it's, everybody understands that the fines are low.
The fines structure is imbedded in the rules and procedures for the Department. There's a
schedule, and that's what dictates the current fine schedule. So, a lot of times, during the
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hearing, folks wanted to imbed the fine within the bill and we kept recommending that they go
back to Planning Commission, and when we, when the bill is finalized, we understand intent and
then we go back and rules and procedures, and we can change the fine schedule there, create a
new fine schedule if necessary.
So, today, I would generally say I don't think we need to debate how much the fine needs to be.
I think we know it needs to be significantly higher, and that will occur in rules and procedures
down the road. I just wanted to add that.
CLARKSON: Thank you. We'll begin public testimony now. The first testifier will be Mayor
Kim. If you can come forward, please. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter
before the Commission today?
KIM: Yes, I do.
CLARKSON: Thank you. Please proceed.
KIM: First of all, thank you for giving me this time. In sitting there, I just recollected, tried to
recollect the background of this and why we are here, and looking at the audience, knowing just
a few of them, very few. When I first got elected Mayor, not first, but when I got elected Mayor
this past December 3rd, even before that, listing priorities of what we're going to try to do, this
was one of the highest priority. When I left the same job the first time in the year 2008, this was
not a problem. I do distinctly remember talking to the Director of the Planning Department at
the time, Chris Yuen, and because you have so many things on the table, you have to prioritize
what you're going to attack, and that was on the table as one of the problem areas, and you can
talk to Mr. Yuen. His exact words were to me that of all the priorities, this is one of the lesser
one is regards to urgency because it was such a small problem and here it is. It comes to this. A
year and a half ago, when I listed the priorities, this was one of the highest priorities. The
priorities established by the population of the Island of Hawaii, their voice of concerns of what
is happening.
And, I'm elaborating this to emphasize the importance of this. Stating this to emphasize to you,
the Commission members, how much work has been done to get to this point. When they were
given this assignment, this assignment was in the year of 2016, 17, and in December when we
first took office. And, I'm so ignorant in regards to how much work and what had to be done to
come to where we are now. I thought they could do it in three or four months at the max. At the
max. And, he must have heard me say a hundred times, where are we now, where are we now,
because of the constant concern of people.
And, speaking a little bit to some of the audience behind me, I really need you to understand, this
isn't for or against anyone. This is for the protection of a lifestyle in Hawaii. This is to learn
from what is happening in Maui, Kauai, and Oahu that we are fortunate enough to be last on the
totem pole that we can learn from them.
The meeting I had before this was what are we going to do about Puna, and I was surprised
learning about the community that was covered by lava some of their concerns of the vacation
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rentals taking over certain communities. I really want to emphasize to the Commissioners this
point. This is about the protection of a lifestyle for Hawaii. This is about not becoming Maui,
Kauai, and Oahu where they will all admit, all of them will admit, living on those counties are no
longer possible for the middle-class family. All you have to do is look at the median cost of any
home and its $750,000 and above. All you have to do is look at certain of the ideal places of this
island and see how vacation rentals have multiplied. And, that is what is being threatened,
because the very words that are up there. I don't know if it's the same side of Maui, Kauai, and
Oahu finding out that this is a very, very profitable business, and I guess it's just common sense.
I had a beautiful place that was destroyed by this past lava, and the beauty of it was not my
simple home. It was the beauty of what people find so unusually exciting to see of Hawaii that
those of us who are born and raised here, we don't even think much about it sometimes. And, I
was stunned when we were doing the survey of how many of those homes were vacation rentals,
because I bought it in 1971 when I didn't even know what the term vacation rentals meant
because it was nonexistent. And, in that short time, we were almost like 50 percent vacation
rentals and going because the people that were buying it or fixing it, finding out how very
lucrative it is and I don't fault anyone for making money. I read in the paper where, some of the
testifiers stated that they need this money to supplement their income to survive. Obviously,
who fights that, you know? That's a problem of almost everyone.
I'm appealing to this Commission and the people of the audience, not knowing who you are, this
is about the protection of a lifestyle for the people of Hawaii. This is about the importance of
what makes this island very special [inaudible] place else of planning and that is our zoning. We
have to have zoning, or you will make, not you, but we will make a policy unwritten that says
use of land will be determined by who can buy the land and use the land. It is of government
that protects the use of land for multiple purposes, including a home. I have nothing against
vacation rentals. I am for zoning. I am for the protection of a lifestyle that the people out there
depend on us to protect them, no different, as I explained to Mr. Yee, this isn't about vacation
rentals. This is about zoning that I live in a residential area, and I know I will not have a, bad
example but, I won't have a service station next to me banging in the middle of the night or
whatever because the zoning will prohibit that. It is of the laws that protects a lifestyle. This is
no different.
So, to the audience behind me, it is not the fault of, you know, making additional income or
whatever of investment. And, even that today questions a change because of the Department, not
Department of Education, but of property tax of the investment property. By the way, I don't
even know what that means. Every property is an investment property to me.
But, I need this Commission to really fully understand what this is all about. This is the
protection of a lifestyle for the people of this land. This is to ensure that certain kind of
businesses, infrastructure, etc., etc., will not infringe because their zoning protects them. Just
imagine if we don't act on this like we did not act on it for the past few years where it was not a
problem to what the problem is today. Can you imagine what it will be ten years from now or
even a year from now?
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I'm asking for a very strong and favorable approval of this to pass on to the County Council, but
not justI will count on staff to fully explain to the County Council what this is all about and
stop focusing on a business -only and start focusing on our responsibilities of zoning importance.
And, that's when I found out first, I asked the question, well, how does Kauai address this, and
I'm not fully, you know, akamai, about that whole law, but the answer to me was well, you can
have it only where it is zoned hotel or Resort, and it sounded like a nice way because that's what
zoning is all about.
I thank you for giving me this time, and I truly hope that those in the audience, I am sure there
are some in there that really, you know, believe in the good of what they're doing. I'm not
questioning that. I'm just questioning the importance of zoning, the importance of protecting a
lifestyle, and keeping a little bit left of what is left for people. Thank you very much.
CLARKSON: Thank you. Okay, at this time, we'll continue with the next four testifiers. I have
listed here—where are my glasses—we're going to do a few. Laura Owens, Steven [Stefan]
Buchta, and actually, I'll do just three to begin with, Barbara Jeremias. Would you please come
forward? Who is not—you're Laura?
OWENS: I'm Laura.
BUCHTA: I'm Steven [Stefan].
CLARKSON: Steven [Stefan]. And, Barbara? Is no longer here. Let's see, the Pepe`ekeo
let's have Jaerick Medeiros and either Garcia or Lito Arkangel? Ok, they left.
GARCIA: I'm Jaerick. Lito left.
CLARKSON: Okay. Would you all raise your right hand, please? Do you swear or affirm to
tell the truth on this matter before the Planning Commission today?
TESTIFIERS: I do/yes.
CLARKSON: We'll start—please introduce yourself into the microphone. Always use the
microphone when you're speaking so our secretary can pick it up, and proceed.
GARCIA: Thank you, Chairman. My name is Jaerick Medeiros Garcia. I'm from Pepe`ekeo. I
am with the Pepe`ekeo Association. My concerns here today is all this talking that they did,
sixteen of these stuff that they were talking about. Not once I heard about security for the
neighborhoods that they're coming into. I'm a hotel worker for one. They're taking jobs away
from me. This week, we're down to 30, 20 percent. Next week, same thing. We're like that `till
December. They don't speak once of providing jobs for the locals in our neighborhoods. I just
think everything is so vague. I really think they should go to each neighborhood, talk to these
associations so we can get the feedback from all the people in the neighborhoods because all I
hear and see is that old mighty dollar. That's what I see. No give back to the community. I
assume that if any women or child gets sexually assaulted, will they be responsible for these
things? The resorts provide security. We don't know who is a sexual offender coming into our
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neighborhoods. Personally, I work in the hotel, I come home, we have a farm, I see these people
that staying in bed and breakfasts not respecting the signs on our streets, speeding up and down
the road, hitting potholes making them bigger. They don't care. What is these owners doing for
it? Nothing. They're collecting that old mighty dollar so as an association, I would like be able
to charge these people for an association fee somewhere around three grand. Never mind this
$250 thing. It's a joke, $250. What they going do with $250? You know? Three grand a
month, provide security for our neighborhood, neighborhood watch, we hire from within the
community because why? They're not providing no jobs for our community.
All right, so I just want to get out there, these things are so vague. They need to make things
pono. Take care their kuleana. Make sure that the people of our community get to have
Hawaii, keep it Hawaii man, not making a resort right around the island. That's crazy. But,
please, sorry, thank you for your time. Thank you for giving me the time for speak. Aloha.
CLARKSON: Thank you. Next. Please introduce yourself.
OWENS: My name is Laura Owens. I'm an owner/operator of the Rainforest Bungalow here in
Hilo. I am a registered and licensed Airbnb, so I'm happy to answer Airbnb questions for you. I
live on the property, so mine is a hosted unit. I vote, I pay GE taxes, and I pay TAT taxes. I'm
self-employed. I do not have a 401K or a retirement plan. My unit is my retirement plan which
helps me offset the high cost of living on the island.
The bill has many good points. I believe all units should be registered and should be paying
taxes. What I don't agree with is notifying the neighbors. I live in a very small neighborhood of
only ten homes, and they don't notify me when they're having parties or, you know, loud events,
and I shouldn't have to notify them if I have guests on my property. Airbnb actually helps
owners vet their guest which kind of answers his question, how do we know. Airbnb renters
actually, you know, have signed up. They provide identification, etc.
I also believe that all units should be included and that includes the farm and the ag properties.
Not everybody wants to stay in a resort area. Vacation rentals offer something hotels can'ta
chance to live like a local and share our special lifestyle here. Vacation rentals fill this need and
provide tax revenue to the State. The money I make and the money my guests spend stays local.
It helps support local jobs, shops, restaurants, skilled labor, and other local businesses. Hawaii
relies on tourism, and I'm happy to be part of that industry. I am contributing to the State. I'm
not taking anything away from the State.
So, I'm for the bill, but I think it still needs a few refinements, so I'm happy to answer any
questions.
CLARKSON: Well, yeah, let me ask you that question that I asked Maija. Who collects the
money, and who pays the TAT?
OWENS: I am responsible for currently for paying the TAT. Some rental units are not
registered, and they're paying nothing.
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23
CLARKSON: No, but I mean between you and Airbnb. Do people make their payments
through Airbnb—
OWENS: Yes
CLARKSON: —and then they send, do they send the TAT to the State?
OWENS: No. Airbnb—
CLARKSON: —They send all the money to you
OWENS: Yes. I am responsible. I receive all the money. It's paid through the Airbnb
platform, but I am responsible for filing those taxes.
CLARKSON: Okay. Any other questions for this testifier?
RAFFIPIY: I have a question. About the security issue, you said that they provide ID cards and
you vet it. How do you vet it?
OWENS: When, I believe, there's some Airbnb representatives here. They may be able to
answer that question, but not only am I an owner, but I also stay in Airbnbs and I provided
identification to Airbnb and provided information about myself
RAFFIPIY: And, but there's no way that you will know, you know, the guests that you're, that
you're having other than their identification, right?
OWENS: No, that's correct.
RAFFIPIY: Okay.
OWENS: I mean, yes, that's correct.
CLARKSON: Is there any
RAFFIPIY: —Thank you.
CLARKSON: Excuse me. Is there any formal guest review thing so that as people stay in
different Airbnbs, they build up either a good reputation or a marginal reputation
OWENS: That's correct—
CLARKSON: or their
OWENS: —Each, yes
CLARKSON: or does
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OWENS: —Each host is reviewed, and each host can review their guest, and it gives the host
the opportunity to say, you know, this person was noisy, they're messy, they were disruptive,
they disrupted the neighborhood, I had complaints against them, and that is something the guest
doesn't see until they have also left a review. But, I get the opportunity to say this guest is a
problem, and other hosts will see that.
CLARKSON: And, okay, and presumably if enough bad reviews come in, they are prohibited
from using the platform?
OWENS: Well, I mean, it's really up to the host if they want to take a chance with the,
somebody that has a really low rating and has had problems in the past. I personally wouldn't. I
look at every guest that has asked to stay at my unit. I look at all their reviews to see if they are a
problem.
CLARKSON: Thank you. Any other questions? Please introduce yourself and proceed.
BUCHTA: Hello, my name is Stefan Buchta, and I spent the last six months living and
breathing Airbnb. I presented to the County Council. I've stayed in about nine Airbnbs in the
last few months across different areas of the island. I've stayed in Jerusalem. I've stayed in
Germany. I've stayed on a hundred Airbnbs on the mainland, and yes, it's pretty much accurate.
I have a profile as a very frequent Airbnb guest that people can look at, and they can see, you
know, to some extent, the hosts are not very good at commenting on me. They usually send me
one sentence, you know? Some hosts that I had have actually reviewed me as a guest, but most
will say, oh, Stefan Buchta was quiet and nice and kept to his work or whatever. So, I don't
know, individuals spend more time reviewing more than hosts do about their guests, so you have
to take that with a grain of salt.
But, when you book an Airbnb, you do see a listing. You can look up a guest, and if you're
willing as a host, if you put that work in which, I don't think that a lot of the hosts that I stay
with actually do, but some do, you know, if the commercial hosts that have many listings, they
don't do that. They basically book you right through. But, a lot of the smaller hosts that pride
themselves, they do.
Okay, so well let me step back a little bit. I want to give you a little bit of a perspective. I've
actually gone out to Oahu. Looked at a lot of rentals there, compared them with here. Let me
put this in context. I was thinking about another area where society went through something like
this, and I think it was smoking, right? I think our idea of smoking has radically changed over
the years. Think about Humphrey Bogart, the great actor, smoking cigarettes in a classic movie
and earning an Oscar award, but today's smokers, they're forced to stand isolated outside
theatres.
So, this evolution has been driven by discovery showing harm, you know, including lung cancer
and how they expose non-smokers and highlighting the need for protection by public health
policies. We didn't know about that harm initially. We assumed that smoking was cool, and
society was embracing it. And, like Harry Kim said, there could be harm, and in the Airbnb
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world, and this is globally, this has nothing to do with our islands, we're getting more aware of
the harm that's caused when this behavior runs wild through the Internet. Okay, so there's a
similar kind of societal recognition of harmful effect worldwide around the Airbnb, and here in
Hawaii, it's seriously affecting local residents. We're clearly, we all knew we're not building
enough housing supply. Out-of-state buyers are running wild. In our Keaukaha neighborhood,
64 percent are out-of-state owners. Airbnb is depleting the existing supply. In Hawaii, about
40,000 homes have been entirely removed from the market. And, affordable housing on that rate
is not being built. Property prices and long-term rents are rising up away and out of reach of
local incomes.
And, so that's kind of the background. There are many short-term rental ordinances throughout
the nations. I've looked at them all. Here's how Bill 108 differs from them, and I think you
should really know this, because we're kind of in this isolated bubble just looking at Bill 108 but
what about others. Unlimited grandfathering, Bill 108, offers nonconformance certificate to
5,000 illegal short-term rentals out there, and what it really does, it creates a path to legality.
You could argue with Amy Self whether they are really legal if you look at the Zoning Code.
I looked at 20 mainland short-term rental bills from San Francisco to Berlin to Maui County.
Nobody else grandfathers everyone. It's unprecedented. There is no bill out there that offers
nonconformance to all the different people who are out there now no matter how many they
operate. There are no serious limits. Bill 108 doesn't cap the number of short-term rentals an
owner can operate. All the mainland bills out there I can supply you with independent research
limit to one or two. There's not a single bill out there that allows more than two per owner. We
do not have a limit in the ones that you can be grandfathered in. We're saying we're preventing
it going forward, but no enforcement relies on zoning violation process and fines a hundred
dollars a day. If you open up the Star Advertiser today, it will inform you that Honolulu is just
debating $25,000.
GARCIA (from audience): This is the Big Island. This is the Big Island.
BUCHTA: I know, but a hundred dollars a day? Gimme a break. I mean, you're making tens of
thousands. I can show you a hostI can take you after this meeting out to a host—
GARCIA (from audience): [Inaudible]
HALL: Sir, please.
CLARKSON: Let me remind the audience to please be quiet, and please wrap it up, sir.
BUCHTA: Okay, I'll wrap it up. So, I want to emphasize Bill 108, this kind of nonconformance
permitting without enforcement in serious limits, serious enforcement brings the courts and fines
don't do it because it takes a year and a zoning violation process to collect anything, will do
serious damage to affordable housing especially given the displacement of so many people by
the volcano. Some cities are in preliminary stages of understanding, but a lot of them—San
Francisco, New York, Santa Monica, and Maui—Kauai is not a good example. They messed it
up. But, Maui is a good example.
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CLARKSON: Please please wrap it up.
BUCHTA: We're, you know, you're successful implementation that we could look for best
practices.
CLARKSON: Okay, thank you.
BUCHTA: Thank you.
CLARKSON: All right, we're going to take a five-minute break at this time. Thank you all for
your testimony. I didn't ask if there were any questions. No? Okay. We'll be starting next with
Phil Barnes, Ranae Ramsey or Bamsey and Sarah Moon, and Axel Kratel.
Chair Clarkson called a recess at 11: 09 a. m., and the meeting was reconvened at 11:18 a. m.
CLARKSON: Hello everyone. I'm going to call the meeting back to order, please. I think all
the Commissioners are here. Okay, thank you. Would you all please raise your right hand? Do
you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter before the Commission today?
TESTIFIERS: I do/yes.
CLARKSON: Thank you. We'll start on the makai end here, and please introduce yourself
Tell us where you're from and then proceed.
MOON: Hello, my name is Sarah Moon, and I live in the Keaukaha area down by the Four
Miles Beach and Carlsmith Beach and Richardson Beach, and we have seen an increase in mega -
houses going up or being developed for Airbnb short-term vacation rentals.
I had a little history on our community association, but since time is short, just know that we've
been keeping an eye on this neighborhood for 40 years with an established community
association called the Leleiwi Community Association. And, we work with the Parks
Department on maintaining and building trails.
So, we believe that the whole neighborhood should be notified when there's going to be a new
development of a short-term vacation rental. Now, it is 300 feet and the instance in our
neighborhood was a fellow just notified his closest neighbors, and they were all himself. He
owns three houses down right across from Richardson's, and they're all short-term vacation
rentals with huge groups of people impacting our parks and coastline.
So, we have our research that shows that short-term vacation rentals are on the rise. Of the 42
houses in our area, 16 are short-term vacation rentals, and then there's two condos down there,
and they have about 5 to 7-1 don't have the exact number. The whole island has 5,000 short-
term vacation rentals with an estimate of 3,000 more that are unlisted. No other bill in any other
city allows grandfathering in on such a large scale. Of the 5,000 short-term vacation rentals
listed, less than 50 percent have hosts. So, is the Planning Department equipped to deal with
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2,500 permits? They need a task force like Santa Monica that tracks down short-term vacation
rentals and collects fees which actually pay for their task force.
The purpose of the bill according to Amy Self is to register and find out who and where the
short-term vacation rentals are located, but our committee has found a way to locate short-term
vacation rentals. It's a complex method involving on-line research, and it takes an expert IT
person. Mafia Ho said that the tracking down of legal and illegal short-term vacation rentals will
be complaint driven by neighbors. This is unacceptable. Complaints are not followed up right
now by the Planning Department.
These are my main objections to Bill 108. The wholesale grandfathering of—which means the
nonconforming use permit—of all short-term vacation rentals, no matter what they size or form
and no proper staff to do a proper job of enforcement. We've got to beef up the enforcement.
We talked to the County Council Planning Committee. We presented a 90 -minute presentation
to them, showed them where all our, show them all our data, but their amendments to Bill 108
are not enough. Too little and maybe too late. I compare short-term vacation rentals to invasive
species like the coqui and the fire ants. Now they got a big free foot in the door, and we need to
get them regulated properly. Thank you.
CLARKSON: Thank you. Any questions forI just have a question. You had a number, five
thousand. I mean, where does that number come from? Is there, to your knowledge, who is
keeping track of the rate of increase in vacation rentals?
MOON: Our community action group. We have an IT expert that used to work for Larry
Ellison. He knows everything, and he's found a way to—he showed it in the 90 -minute
presentation to the County Council.
CLARKSON: Well, I'm sorry, we don't have the time to do that. I'm just wondering in your
opinion, how fast are vacation rentals increasing? What's the doubling time so to speak for the
number of short-term vacation rentals?
MOON: I only can speak for my neighborhood, and it's been almost weekly, almost monthly, a
new vacation rental in this very small neighborhood that is in our coastal area that the local
people do all their activitiesswimming, fishing, surfing, throw net. And, already we've seen
big groups jumping into lagoons and stomping on the coral, and it's just going to degrade the
whole area.
CLARKSON: So, ten years ago, how many rentals
MOON: —Ten years ago
CLARKSON: —You said there were 16 out of 40?
MOON: Yes.
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CLARKSON: Ten years ago, there were how many do you think? I'm just curious.
MOON: Well, we had bed and breakfasts.
CLARKSON: No, but I mean
MOON: —But, um, I don't think there were any.
CLARKSON: Okay, thank you.
MOON: Yeah.
CLARKSON: I'm just, we'll go to the next person now. Please introduce yourself and proceed.
KRATEL: Yes, hi, my names is Axel Kratel. I'm a farmer up in lower Hamakua, and we do
home sharing, so that's a hosted rental to help support our farm. I've been in these hearings from
the get -go, from the very beginning. So, I've heard a ton of testimony around the issues. I'm
here in support of Bill 108. I think there's been a tremendous amount of work been done by
County Council, the Mayor's office, and Planning to come up with a bill that really takes into
account all of the forces that work vacation rentals going crazy versus, you know, what kind of
accommodations do actually help locals be able to make ends meet.
I'm speaking on the behalf of a farmer, and I also am very active in the farming community, so
I've spoken to a lot of other farmers who are very much in the same situation as I am. We're a
family farm, so we're small scale, and we do get a mix of guests coming through, both either
farm workers when we really need them, and when we don't have crops, we rent out to tourists.
But, we bring a very specific kind of tourist to the area. They're basically farm tourists, and
what that means they're people who are happy to see cows. They're happy to see sheep and
goat. We have a lot of livestock, and we're a real farm, so it's not likebasically, the kind of
guest that we want are the guests who are going to be happy in that kind of environment. And,
that's what, Hamakua should be about farming. It should remain rural and, and the hosted
rentals actually support farmers with additional income to be able to make ends meet.
I know someone else brought up the notion of the coffee farmers who have facilities that when
the crops are being harvested, you've got the workers in there, but when they're not—when you
don't have a need for the workers, then you can actually accommodate farming guests. I think
that's very important for Hamakua to be able to have that farm tourism to help support all the
small farms. There is a—there is a vision to have Hamakua become, for example, the Napa of
cacao, of chocolate. So, these are, this is the kind of rentals that actually help, help Hamakua.
So Bill 108 does not include hosted rentals. I just want to speak on behalf of hosted rentals that
that's, you know, we very much need that to be able to make ends meet and help locals, so, thank
you.
CLARKSON: Any questions?
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BAMSEY: My name is Mrs. Bamsey. I live in South Kohala. Nothing against transient
accommodations, Airbnb, VRBO, but Bill 108 must prevent hotels, mini -hotels, and hostels in
residential neighborhoods. The bill needs to prevent problems using black and white methods,
when those were right up there, the Planning Department had a lot of questions, what do normal
people, how are they going to rate it. It's not written in clear speak. I would like to see things
that are more clear such as no more than two spaces can be listed as a transient accommodation,
zoned single-family, no more than two transient vehicles can be on a property, no more than five
transient people can stay the night per a single-family. Ten is too much.
I will explain to you what my situation is. There's a six -bedroom hotel operating out of a house
zoned single-family right next to mine. That's five to six car loads of people a night. Five to six
car loads of people a night. I, occasionally, will host an Airbnb for two people to help pay my
mortgage. Okay, I can't even do that now because there is so much security problems, in the
neighborhood. I've had people walk into my house thinking they're at the hotel next door in the
middle of the night. Last night, there were people looking in my bedroom window, tapping,
going where, where is the hotel? They were at my bedroom window looking in my window.
So, it's not that these things are bad. It's that it has to be plain speak, and it can't be this many
people. It's too many people.
You need to understand that in some locations like Amsterdam, Portland, San Francisco, Airbnb
automatically collects occupancy tax from guests and sends it to the tax authority on the host's
behalf Require Airbnb and other website sales to provide this for Hawaii County so we do
have accounting for it. No tax—and it's not Airbnb. For example, the place next to me, they are
on 40 websites. They are on Booking.com, Travelocity.com, Hotels.com. If you look on Google
Maps, they actually show up as a hotel in our village, and the only other place that shows up is a
restaurant. They show up as a hotel. So, it's not Airbnb. It's what the Mayor said. It's zoning,
and Bill 108 does not have clear speak for zoning, and it does not address that. We are no longer
our zoning for a residence. Our zoning is not for our lifestyle here in Hawaii.
Please note that no tax documents are issued until a person has earned over $20,000 and has had
200+ reservations from a single site. They don't get tax documentation, so, for example, the
hotel next to mine, it could have nineteen thousand from Booking.com. It could have nineteen
thousand from Hotels.com. It could have nineteen thousand, and no taxes are reported to the
other agency. So, please take that note that that's something that we need to consider. I would,
you know, maybe look into having only advertise—allowing these to be advertised on-line via
websites that collect and send tax earnings to the authorities.
The property owners live in the hotel next door, so I also have a problem that this does not—Bill
108 does not address what we've been dealing with, and we have submitted for a long time to
Council and to the Planning Department these problems, and they have not been addressed
because according to the Planning Department, they have to be announced when they come so,
of course, they're not going to have all those people there. The Planning Department also
wouldn't accept my photographs of all the pictures and what not, so Bill 108 doesn't fix this as
written, as written. It does not fix it.
CLARKSON: Thank you. Any questions for this testifier?
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30
YEE: Question. In the area you live in, is there a CC&R, and does it exclude vacation rentals?
BAMSEY: It has similar speak to what I have read or understand from the Planning and zoning
ordinances of no more than five related people is in County. In our association, it is no more
than three non -related. And, we have talked to them, and they said talk to County. We've talked
to County. County says talk to the association. No one takes ownership of the problem.
YEE: Okay, thank you.
CLARKSON: Any other questions? If not, please introduce yourself and then proceed with
your testimony.
BARNES: Surely, yeah, my name is Phil Barnes. My wife, Diane, and I have been doing
vacation rentals since the early nineties. And, I've heard some concerns raised about noise, and I
can just, you know, give our experience in that 25 years of doing these before the Internet was
even really there, and we have only had neighbors complain in I guess once in 25 years. Maybe
we're just extraordinarily lucky, but we kind of keep an eye who we're renting. We're very
present. Talk to `em when they check in. Tell `em about, you know, neighborhood noise levels
and what's expected, and we haven't had any problems with it. But, I can see where it could be
a huge problem as some of the other people have mentioned, but we haven't had it. I remember
that as the vacation rental business started to take off, one of the strongest advocates was Gary
Safarik that used to be on the County Council, who was our rep. We lived out in Puna at that
time, and he stressed that these rentals were an excellent way for local folks to be able to
generate an income from the tourism industry which is obviously, drives the economy in our
State.
Okay, you hear the term "mom and pop" businesses a lot. It's often pointed out that the profits
from the money that they make stays in the community. Hence, these dollars are recirculated
more at the local level. Well, most of the "mom and pops" in the tourism industry are vacation
rentals. This is the "mom and pop" end of, of the tourism industry. The profits are usually not
going out of State or even internationally to a giant hospitality corporation. Every form of
business needs regulation for a variety of reasons, and I can see clearly now that the time has
come that the vacation rental industry needs some regulation. However, I do see some problems
with the 108, but I'm glad that this, that 108 has come up, because something needed to happen.
And, hopefully, this can be tweaked and worked out to get a decent resolution.
Okay, however, okay, by far the largest problem with the vacation rental industry is the number,
the large number of illegal vacation rentals that do not pay any taxes, any TA or GE, and as
Sarah stated, if you've got a good IT person, they can cross reference the vacation rental sites
against the State Division of Taxation. That seems to be that would not actually be rocket
science to figure out who the crooks, if you want to call them that in this case, are. So, I think
that can be done.
Two issues that I see in regulations that are a big problem is out-of-state owners of vacation
rentals and very high-end vacation rentals, and these two issues tend to be linked. If the vacation
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rental owners live nearby and are doing a lot of work themselves in hiring local folks to work for
them, and renting their units out affordably, that's an entirely different style of business. I can't
say that I have a handle on the constitutional limits of dealing with the out-of-state owners in
this, in some kind of regulation like this. It probably is unconstitutional. If there's any way that
could be dealt with to keep the local people running the vacation rentals, it'd make a big
difference.
So, those out -of -staters spending the huge bucks are obviously not running "mom and pop"
operations. Thank you.
CLARKSON: Thank you. Any questions for this testifier, Mr. Barnes? No? Thank you. You
may all be seated. Richard Henderson, Dan Whetstone, Jordan Sonner, and Morris Niimi.
Would you all please raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this
matter before the Planning Commission today?
TESTIFIERS: I do/yes.
CLARKSON: If we can start down here. Would you please introduce yourself, where you live,
and proceed? You have three minutes.
SONNER: Okay, thank you. Hi, everyone, my name is Jordan Sonner. I have been following
this bill pretty much since it was first brought to light by the Council either the end of 2017 or
the beginning of 2018, and, you know, we were having talks with the County Councilors. You
know, a lot of concerns as vacation rental owners and hosts, was the economic impact of taking
the ability of new rentals away. And, we're actually in this really interesting position that we've
kind of gotten to see it because of the eruption. I mean, you guys all know, our economy is
hurting right now, and this is—you know, we've lost vacation rentals, but most of all, we've lost
our tourism. You know, the gentleman behind me had mentioned that the hotel he works for is
it, 20 to 30 percent occupancy? A lot of them are like that right now, and a lot of vacation
rentals are running at 20 to 30 percent occupancy. Several of them are being converted to long
term rentals just because there's no tourism right now. And, in the long run, if you look past this
downturn, building our way back up is going to take a lot more especially if we can't have any
new vacation rentals as the years go by in zones outside of the Resort zones. Especially in areas
like Puna, for example. You know, we've lost a lot of our rentals, and without a way to get a lot
of `em back, you know, there's no hotels down there, and there will never be Resort zones down
there because of the high lava hazards. And, people don't really want the big resorts in their
communities anyway.
You know, one other point that I would like to touch on that was discussed quite a bit today is
the neighbor policy. You know, sending out notifications to the neighborhood, and there was a
mention of posting the addresses of the registered vacation rentals on-line. I see this as the other
side of the security issue. If you have a house in a neighborhood that you know is going to be
vacant, you can, you can case it basically. It makes the house a target for theft and for
vandalism. And, whether that person is an on -island host or an off -island host or whatever they
are, putting houses out there to be targeted is not okay, especially because things happen now
and, you know, they're not taken care of.
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I'm a licensed real estate agent, and if you talk to any other licensed realtor on this island who's
had a vacant listing, that is the epitome of a vacant home that is publicly put out into the Internet,
and it happens. The homes get ripped off I don't know any realtor who hasn't had it happen
themselves or somebody in their office where somebody sees the house is vacant on-line, it gets
broken into, the belongings get taken, the appliances get taken, the house gets squatted in. So, it
creates more problems within the community. And, that's all I have.
CLARKSON: Any questions for this testifier? If not, please proceed to the—introduce yourself.
WHETSTONE: My name is Dan Whetstone. Imagine living in a hotel room. Also imagine that
this hotel room is located next to the hotel swimming pool. That would be a close description of
what we have to live with most days at our home. Since the vacation rental next door has four
bedrooms and a swimming pool with a 20 -foot concrete slide, we get the experience the repeated
slamming of car doors when the six to ten guests arrive, usually in two to three different
vehicles, and the beeping of the horns as they lock the vehicles.
Soon after arriving, the guests usually including two to six children hit the pool. So, most of the
day consists of kids yelling at the top of their lungs especially as they go down the slide with the
adults pitching in with lots of yelling also. As each day winds down, the adults usually start to
congregate on the back lanai to eat and drink. Of course, this is almost always accompanied by
loud talking and laughter that many time goes on, many times goes on until late.
I forgot to mention that this hotel has a banquet room also. On at least three occasions in the last
year and a half, the vacation rental has been rented out as an event venue. Twice we counted just
over a dozen cars parked on the street and in the driveway with loud music and lots of noise. A
few months ago, there was an event that had 21 cars out front and live amplified music that went
on for hours.
We bought our home a little over 18 years ago on a quiet cul-de-sac in Honomu. In 2015, my
wife and I both retired from employment with the State of Hawaii. Our intention was to spend a
lot of time at home enjoying the peaceful neighborhood. The house we remodeled just the way
we wanted it and our wonderful backyard in ocean view. Well, as I described before, that only
happens on rare occasions, and even then every time a car door slams, we wonder whose arriving
next door now.
My wife and I beg you to find some way to not grandfather in this existing vacation rentals.
Why are these non-resident vacation rental owners' rights given precedence over the rights of
people in their residential neighborhoods just trying to live peacefully? On many nights, we go
to bed with our hearts pounding and a sick feeling in our stomachs after listening to the resort
next door all day and evening. As soon as we discovered the new owner was using the house as
a vacation rental, we filed a complaint with the Planning Department and got a letter back stating
that the Planning Department does not regulate properties used as vacation rentals. Isn't there
some process where the current neighbors should have been notified of the intent to run a
business in our neighborhood? Shouldn't we all been able to have some kind of recourse? Once
again, I respectfully ask somehow, someway that these existing vacation rentals not just be
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grandfathered in across the board but are looked at in a case-by-case basis and evaluated on what
types of neighborhood they are located in and how their size and amenities might affect the
neighborhood.
Also, can anyone tell me whether the grandfathering in would go to the owner or the property?
If the owner sells, would the business still be considered existing or would it then be considered
and not allowed in a residential area. Thank you for your time.
CLARKSON: Thank you. Can someone from the Planning Department clarify that? Does the
grandfathering of the vacation rental go with the property regardless of ownership?
YEE: Yes.
CLARKSON: Okay, it would just, they could just sell to anybody and continue using it that
way. Any further questions?
SONNER: That was in the original draft
HATA-FINLEY: Microphone
SONNER: [inaudible] wasn't that taken out?
CLARKSON: The answer we got from the Director was that any grandfathering,
nonconforming use permit goes with the property.
HALL: Certificate.
CLARKSON: Certificate.
HENDERSON: That was only if the new owner wanted to continue it.
CLARKSON: Correct.
HENDERSON: If they are in a nonconforming use area, they do.
CLARKSON: I'm assuming that you're allowed to not have a short-term vacation rental if you
don't want it. I'm sorry. If there are no further questions, would you introduce yourself, sir, and
present.
HENDERSON: My name is Richard Henderson, and I am a realtor and can corroborate what
Jordan has mentioned about posting addresses of vacant properties, partially vacant in the year.
It is a target for vandalism, and it is rife and going on all the time.
I'm here to talk about this bill, and this bill is not good. And, it's not good because the first
recommendation to change was to rename the bill "Un -hosted Vacation Rentals" and that's
where the problem has been. From the very beginning of this, I followed it. I've been testifying.
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And un -hosted vacation rentals are problems because there is no one there to enforce what other
people have said in review of the guests and make sure that they behave.
But, what I'm talking to you about today is common sense with calling the police for disturbance
of the peace. We have laws on the books that talk about disturbance of the peace, and that's
what this is about. You're having disturbance of the peace in your neighborhood, that's going
on. When you call the police, the police should come down and enforce the law. If that requires
them citing these people, if they have to appear in court, then so be it. That's what has to be
done. But, now, you call the police, and they don't want to deal with disturbance of the peace.
So, I'm asking what is this bill for? To take over the police's job of enforcing the laws that are
already on the books? I mean, this is crazy. We spent so much time and energy with this bill
and doing it, and it's all because of the disturbance of the peace, and we have laws on the books
that deal with that. We don't need zoning. We don't need unregistered regulated businesses.
We just need a little common sense in getting the police to do their job, and the courts to enforce
it. It's already there. Thank you very much.
CLARKSON: Any questions for this testifier? If not, please introduce yourself and
NIIML My name is Morris Niimi, and I'm a resident of Hawaiian Paradise Park, and I live on
an agriculturally zoned lot. And, I'm speaking in favor of Bill 108 with some changes, and I
have some reservations, but I think it is a positive start for the residents and the people of
Hawaii County.
We have hosted, my wife and I, people from all over the world at our hosted vacation rental, and
we've been operating for 6-1/2 years. My wife and I are employed full time and receiving
additional income from operating or hosting at our rental. I currently serve as the pastor of New
Hope Christian Fellowship Church in Pahoa, and my wife is an administrative assistant at the
Subaru Telescope.
Our short-term vacation rental allows us to receive additional revenue which allows us to live
affordably in Hawaii County. As you know, living expenses continue to increase along with the
property tax, general excise tax, transient accommodation tax, vehicle weight tax—these are all
taxes that have been increased just very recently. We pay a lot for insurance, food, gas,
electricity, building and grounds maintenance, even medical insurance is very, very expensive,
and every year they increase.
When people stay with us, they help our economy of the island by providing finances for the
government through the additional taxes that we pay, and when our guests visit the island, they
purchase food, they rent cars, they pay for fuel, they pay for tour fees and park fees, and they
help us when we hire cleaning help, maintenance help, grounds help, and upkeep helpers, and
they help create they help and create and sustain jobs in our community.
I have concerns and questions about the outcome of Bill 108. I have concerns for the future
generations of children and my son who will someday have to make a living for himself here in
Hawaii. Will he be able to operate his own business or short-term vacation rental if he chooses
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to do so? And, I'm concerned about how he will generate enough income to live in Hawaii
County.
Another concern is the question of would we be able to host a vacation rental if we had to
relocate to another part of the island. With the recent crisis with the lava flow, that is a concern
for many residents who had to relocate from Kapoho. Many questions still exist.
If there is an outcome—if there is a one-time land use exemption to allow a property owner to
host a vacation rental on agriculturally zonedI understand and I have clarification today that it
really doesn't apply to me, but what will be the qualification for that rezone, well, that one-time
exemption and will the fee be a one-time recurring, or recurring fee that has to be paid on an
annual basis.
I believe that it is very important to develop and sustain agriculture on the Island of Hawaii. We
have lost thousands of acres in Kapoho and today even the price of papayas and orchids are not
available, too, so it really impacts the community in Puna, and I really believe that we need to
continue to develop agricultural properties, but at the same time, it's important to allow the
members of the community to maximize the income they can receive from diversifying.
CLARKSON: Thank you. Are there any questions for this testifier from the Commission? No?
Thank you, all. Please be seated. Will Stephanie Donoho, Donna Herbst, Tara Frazier, and
Louisa Lee please come forward? Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell
the truth on this matter before the Planning Commission today?
TESTIFIERS: Yes.
CLARKSON: Would you please introduce yourself, Stephanie?
DONOHO: Aloha, my name is Stephanie Donoho. I am the administrative director for the
Kohala Coast Resort Association which is comprised of all the resort properties and hotels from
Mauna Kea to Hualalai. Previously, from 2006 through 2014, I was the tourism specialist in the
Department of Research and Development for the County of Hawaii. I've also served as the
executive director for the Visitor Aloha Society of Hawaii which helps visitors who experience
crisis while they're travelling, and I'm on the Board of Directors for the Hawaii Island Safety
and Security Professionals Association. All of those roles that I mention help in form my
testimony today.
I truly appreciate that this is before your consideration, that this bill is before this body, because
it has been a long time coming. As Mayor Kim mentioned, I served in the previous Kim
administration and in the previous Kenoi administration and often as the tourism specialist was
asked many of the questions that Joe has been asking today. How many vacation rentals do we
have on this island? It's almost an impossible figure to track, but I wanted to provide a couple of
resources to you. Hawaii Tourism Authority does a visitor plant inventory every year. Their
most recent one was in 2017. It's run by the Department of Research. They think that there are
2,600 vacation rentals on Hawai'i Island out of an 11,000 inventory in terms of vacation
accommodations including hotel rooms, bed & breakfasts and those types. The Director of
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Research, however, and you can find that on-line on Hawaii Tourism Authority's website under
the research tab. There's a section called visitor plant inventory, and it's broken down by
Hawaii Island and by neighborhoods within Hawaii Island, so I highly recommend that the
Commissioners consider that.
The thing that the research director noted, though, is because the same property can be advertised
on multiple platforms and because addresses are not listed, that there may be duplication of the
ones that they are counting and there also may be undercounting of ones that are not using more
traditional platforms, and so it's a very fuzzy figure. I know when Bill Takaba was the Director
of Finance, he asked me to get a list of transient accommodations tax license holders as the
Research & Development Director for the County of Hawaii, and the Department of Taxation
would not provide that from a government office to another government office so that we could
start trying to track this.
So, I appreciate that the Planning Department and that the County Council is trying to get a
handle on how many are there and how do we count them, because in that role, we're often asked
to do economic analysis and it's impossible when you don't know what you're counting. So,
that brings up my testimony for this bill specifically.
I do think that this bill is a good effort, and I appreciate the time that has gone into it. There are
so many nuances to it. However, the fact that it's only addressing un -hosted vacation rentals
without having some sort of registration process for those that are hosted as well is going to
mean that we still have that same problem of not being able to count, and that's a clear problem.
It also makes us unable to communicate, and I bring this up specifically in regard to emergency
situations based on my time with VASH and HISSPA.
When the County of Hawaii Civil Defense has to say all vacation rentals in Pahoa need to close
because of the eruptive activity or all vacation rentals within Vacationland need to close because
of the eruptive activity, but don't know who to talk to about closing those? Then, we're just
speaking in the wind.
As we saw with this latest hurricane, Civil Defense sent to my hotel properties direct
communications where we had to provide occupancy, number of available rooms, what the
conditions were like on a regular basis. I don't believe that that's currently happening with the
vacation rental market, because we can't even identify who they are to have those
communications.
As the executive director for VASH, on two occasions, I had people call me, one when they
entered a Hawaii vacation rental that they rented on-line that was unhosted that was infested
with vermin. They couldn't reach the owner, and they needed to move to another property
during Merry Monarch. This was in East Hawaii. Thankfully, I have some wonderful realtor
connections who were able to find another property, but that's, that's the current situation with
not being vetted.
On a second occasion, Japanese visitors rented an Airbnb on-line. The property was highlighted
on the website, they made the communication with the owners, and when they arrived, it was a
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residence home that was not hosting a vacation rental, and the breakdown in communications
because they were Japanese visitors thinking that they had taken care of this in advance and
someone had received their money, but they didn't have a place to go. It's just ripe for all kinds
of misuse.
This, in the end, though, is about fairness, and in the visitor industry, I believe we need to be fair.
My resorts combined pay more than $50 million annual in transient accommodations tax, GET
tax, and property tax. Our rates were raised higher than any other property tax class last year.
We employ more than 5,000 people within those resorts. I just encourage you to please consider
as you deliberate on this bill the fairness issues surrounding this with the vacation rental industry.
Thank you.
CLARKSON: Thank you. Are they any questions from staff or the Commission?
YEE: Yes. Stephanie, in your discussions with others, was there an explanation for not
including hosted rentals?
DONOHO: I think it was just political concerns going on honestly, if I'm being upfront. I think
that they were worried about it, but I'm thinking about it more from a registration process and
knowing the sheer number of them, so.
CLARKSON: Please proceed.
FRAZIER: Hi, my name is Tara Frazier. I've been in the vacation rental business here in East
Hawaii since 1995. I know a lot of professionals in this business, and we all have been hoping
for some common sense regulations that will enforce taxes, address health and safety issues,
good neighbor policies, and accountability for people who are operating in a disruptive way.
And, I know from experience, that when well-managed vacation rentals can be operated
positively and without hurting the communities.
My main concern is moving all vacation rentals to resort areas and the hundreds and hundreds of
jobs that East Hawaii will lose. I know dozens of families who lived in Kapoho and lost not
only their homes but their jobs as well since they all worked at the vacation rentals in the
community. I'm housing two households of them right now as they try to get back on their feet,
but jobs are practically nonexistent down in Puna and without vacation rentals, we'll lose one of
only sources of income for hundreds and hundreds of hardworking residents.
The small company I work for supports around 30 independent contractors with the 40 or so
homes that we represent, and we also work with dozens of small businesses in the area as well.
Almost all of the rental revenue that we get stays here in the community and goes to the
housekeepers and handymen and all those other people that we need to keep the business afloat
and, of course, and the lack of visitors would have a huge economic impact on all of the small
businesses in Puna as well.
That's my main point. I also wanted to mention the questions that were coming up about Airbnb
and tax collection and all that kind of stuff Airbnb has worked with local lawmakers and lots of
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other areas of the country and passed legislation that requires all of the big listing sites to collect
and remit the local taxes. I know it's been presented here a couple of years in a row, but it hasn't
passed yet, so I think getting that through would definitely increase the revenue for that, for the
locality. That's all I've got.
CLARKSON: Any questions about this testimony? Thank you very much.
LEE: Hello, hi, my name is Louisa Lee. I'm from Keaukaha, and I heard a lot of testimony
today, so I don't want to be too repetitive. I am a mother, and I am a school administrator at the
Hawaiian immersion school in Keaukaha, and I really want to speak from the perspective of
someone who is really concerned about what the future is for children in Hawaii when short-
term vacation rentals are having such a huge impact on the availability of housing and affordable
housing and the neighborhoods especially in coastal areas. So, specifically in relation to the bill,
I live in a neighborhood in Keaukaha where within a block and a half of me there are 12 homes.
Eight of them are now un -hosted, 4 homes short-term vacation rentals. Ten years ago, there
were no short-term vacation rentals. One owner from California owns five of those vacation
rentals. There are currently no quotas within Bill 108 that would say within this two-mile
coastline, there are only ten allowed short-term vacation rentals.
I am a consumer of short-term vacation rentals in other places. I think if anything the experience
in my neighborhood has really like made me more, a more conscientious consumer. So, I think
that there is a need for full -home vacation rentals, but I do think that there needs to be
restrictions on how many should be allowed in a particular neighborhood. We see short-term
vacation rentals kind of conglomerating in coastal communities. That's where the biggest
impacts, I think, are going to be felt. Places like Volcano. Places like Keaukaha. I can see those
places turning into Puakos where now people don't necessarily have access to the rich like
cultural histories that are there. There's no educational opportunities left there. There's no way
that people are going to be able to afford homes in these places if this continues to happen.
And, my school students, 240 of them, are constantly in Keaukaha along that coastline. That is
part of their learning laboratory, and it's uncomfortable for me to say come and learn in this
community and come and learn about your history, but you will never live here and you will
probably not be able to have access to places like these if we don't start to regulate.
So, I am opposed to 108 because I don't think that it has the restrictions in it that we need to
protect communities. I don't think there's any differentiation between like a local owner versus
a non -local owner. I think some estimates are 65 percent of vacation rentals in Hawaii are non -
locally owned. The ability for communities to continue to maintain partnerships that they have
with the County for say, local management, beach community, beach clean ups, even Volcano,
cultural places. I think those things would cease to exist if communities are not still in
communities.
And, then I also want to say, but this is a big business, and you, anybody can go on Netflix and
there is currently a Netflix series on how to have a vacation rental. Airbnb alone is a $30 billion
a year business. They're opposed to regulation, but they're—we are not thinking about
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communities when we're just focused on the ability for people to make extra money. Own a
vacation home in Hawaii with an Airbnb. So, thank you.
CLARKSON: Thank you. Any questions? Donn?
DELA CRUZ: Yeah, I have a question. I have a question for Corp. Counsel actually. Can we
actually put quotas on vacation rentals? On any area? Is it possible?
HALL: When we looked at the other, has any other jurisdiction put quotas? I would say the
majority of the time when you're dealing with property rights, it's really hard to tell people they
can't do something with their property. I'm sorry, go ahead.
JACKSON: The research I did into City & County of Honolulu, the bill that they're currently
debating right now and that's going before their council, they're proposing to cap vacation
rentals to one percent of the dwelling units in a community planning area. So, they are putting
those quotas, those caps.
DELA CRUZ: So, we could use those caps as a guideline for us then.
JACKSON: If the attorneys say yes, yes.
HALL: Yeah, I mean, anything can be challenged, right? So, like we can put it in place and
somebody can challenge it, and basically the court or the Legislature will tell us what we can and
can't do. But, I would have to do more research to get a full answer, and I'll get back to you on
that.
YEE: I would also add that in a little bit of our research, I think it was Maui, one of `em, Maui
or Kauai has quotas in certain areas. And, without digging deep into exactly how they were
enacting, the general comment from the planning director was it caused a lot of problems, too, by
placing quotas, and I'm not saying if that's good or bad. Just saying, you know, that was raised
by another planning director.
RAFFIPIY: Question. What is the homeowner's association, the board, homeowner's board or
association—what is their position in this? Or, do they have any say in this? Or it's just
something that is just allowed in their neighborhood and they just have to deal with?
YEE: I think Corporation Counsel, Amy Self, could help respond to that.
SELF: Yes, the associations have—you had, I heard a testifier before saying their association
had CC&R's. But, it's up to the association to enforce those CC&R's. So, they could, you
know, I don't know whatever their CC&R's say what they allow, whatever, they could go to,
they could file a complaint against someone who is in violation of their CC&R's. The
association could file suit against that person, but it's not the County'sI heard them say to go
see the County, but the County has nothing to do with a private contract between the
association
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BAMSEY (from audience): —It's Waikoloa Village. There's three thousand homes. It's
Waikoloa Bridge, the association. There's three thousand homes [inaudible]—
HATA-FINLEY: Ma'am—
CLARKSON: Please, please
BAMSEY (from audience): —It's not only [inaudible]
CLARKSON: —We're having discussion between the testifiers and the Commission at this
point, and the staff
RAFFIPIY: Can the, in this bill, can the association levy charges or just charge—do they have
that ability to put in their CC&R, you know, fees that they can charge these businesses in their,
within their association?
SELF: That's entirely up to the association. Their CC&Rs is a contract with their homeowners
in the association, so that would be a private contract that the County does not have any authority
or jurisdiction over. They would have to deal with—they'd have to go to court to enforce their
CC&Rs against their homeowners.
RAFFIPIY: Okay
CLARKSON: —Does, oh
RAFFIPIY: Sorry, and that brings me to the other point. So, if the neighborhood don't know
about, you know, the, who is in that area, how would they exercise that option if they want to?
You know, `cause I'm hearing some testifiers, they don't want that to be published and the
address to be shared within the neighborhood or with the neighbors. So, I guess, it should be
shared at least to the board, to the association, so that the association knows who they are if they
want to exercise that option if they want to charge these businesses fees?
SELF: It's not the County's jurisdiction over these things, but I can tell you that the association
wouldn't know. It's their members, all the homeowners in the association. All the—the way it
works is an association is the homeowners, so they're members of the association, so if they
don't know, that's their problem.
CLARKSON: Does anybody have any numbers on how many residences are affected by
CC&Rs from homeowners' associations that regulate short-term vacation rentals? I mean, is this
a significant percentage of the island at all?
SELF: That's not something I could answer because it's not—like I said, the County doesn't get
involved with private contracts. We cannot get involved with private contracts, and that's what
CC&Rs are. It's a contract between the association and its members.
CLARKSON: Any further questions?
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HERBST: Aloha, my name is Donna Herbst, and I have been involved in the industry of
vacation rentals since the early 1990's when I actually cleaned vacation rentals because that was
my only income as a single mom, and I was able to make ends meet with that, so I appreciated it.
In 2003, I did buy my vacation rental. It is in the Keaukaha area. I've had it for 15 years. Never
had any problems or complaints with neighbors. Oh, I take that --one time, I think, someone
said something about they were smoking, and since then, we've made that a non-smoking
building, so that's not a problem.
But, my situation is that that building has an association, and we have on our by-laws that short-
term rentals are allowed. It is the only one that has short-term less than 30 days allowed on its
books. Hilo Lagoon doesn't. Hale Kahakai, Hale Moana, they don't. So, that's a little bit of a
conflict with us right now, but the back in two, it was about mid -nineties, they made a change,
and the Planning Committee took Resort zoning off of the lower Keaukaha area and stopped it at
the Banyan Drive. We used to be Resort zoned all the way down through the end of
Kalanianaole Drive. We don't have that anymore. Yeah, it would probably fix our problem, we
don't, so I do suggest that you look at that again and see that that area might be back into the
Resort zoning because we have very, very little Resort zoning on this side of the island. We're
not like Kona. I mean, Kona, you can do it. You got it, but we have what? Three hotels? And,
that's another point I want to bring up, is when we come to Merry Monarch and another, some
other big events that are coming. In fact 2020, we're hosting the International Canoe Va`a
Association from around the world, we're looking at 2,600 participants for that. We don't have a
place for 2,600 people in Hilo, and we're going to be trying to figure that out. Vacation rentals
are a big part of that.
Merry Monarch, vacation rentals are a very big part of that. That's our lifestyle. That's our
Hilo. You know, we need to be able to have our guests stay somewhere without having them
drive from Kona. So, I think that there is some important things we should look at. Rezoning
the Resort zoned areas, it needs to be looked at.
Also, I wanted to mention that the fact we've lost so much revenue from Kapoho, from Volcano.
Those people up there haven't been able to rent for two months. Either the earthquakes and
everything were so drastic. We have to look at that income. I would dare to say at least a
$100,000 has been lost in the last month and two from all this income of transient
accommodations.
So, it's a two-sided sword. We've got people we need to control, but I have to say that it's not
the responsibility of the County Council or the Planning Department to police civil activities.
That's where this bill has gotten off onto I feel the wrong foot. We really came into this to be
able to collect money for the transient accommodations, and if we're able to follow some of the
lines that were set before us today how we can get a hold of all this transient accommodation
numbers, and in two years ago, we are told, as vacation rental owners, that we had to post them
on our listings, which I did and most everyone I know did. So, those are out there.
I think that that was the intent of the bill in the beginning, was to try to collect the income from
these people who are not paying and a lot of them are out of State. I have no objection to having
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them pay more. You know, they pay when they sell a property. They pay 7-1/2 percent now to
sell a property in Hawaii. So, they can pay more than we pay. That's okay, but I think it's gotta
be looked at to perhaps maybe think of the term "license" instead of having to go through
nonconforming use. That way everyone looks at getting a license for it, and if they are out of
line with their license, you rip the license. You take it away. If I have a driver's license and I'm
not abiding, they can take it away. If I have a fishing license and I'm not abiding, they can take
it away.
I think the same thing should be looked at with the vacation rental programs, and I have one
more thing to say. That in section 25-4(a)-2, it says that private covenants prohibiting use of any
unit as a short-term vacation rental shall not be invalidated by this chapter. I understand that.
So, if it's already prohibited, it's prohibited. But, back to my first point. If our association
allows it, should not it be allowed? That's myI think I got it. Do I have any more time?
HALL: You have about 30 seconds.
HERBST: Okay, okay. And, as I—okay, Amy also said that there are kinds of way to get this
information, and I strongly agree with that. I'd like to see the money and time spent on this put
toward that avenue of finding the TATs and collecting the money than trying to find ways to
police people and leave that to our civil police.
CLARKSON: Thank you. Any questions for any of the testifiers? Thank you then. Please be
seated. I think it will be our last group. Anthony Ambler, Loma Groth, and Joey Roth. Okay,
there's our last two. Is anybody expecting to be able to testify whose name has not been called
already? All right, please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this
matter before the Planning Commission today?
TESTIFIERS: Yes.
CLARKSON: Please introduce yourself and proceed.
GROTH: Hi, my name is Lorna Groth, and I was born and raised here on the islands and I do
have a home here as well that we recently did a VRB on. And, I see the problems on both sides.
Pros and cons to everything. I do believe as a VRB owner you must be responsible and do
everything that is right, abide by the law, and when it was, when we started, it was with much
reluctancy to do so. Number one, I was thinking, oh, I don't know if I'm going to want these
people, all kind of people in my house. But, we get to check it out and we get to check out the
people, and like someone mentioned, you can—it's both ways. And, then I think about the local
people who have to deal with people in their neighborhood, and that has to be really, really
awful.
The regulations, it has to be done. It really has. Maybe a limit? I live, I get to live here some
times and part-time, I live in California. I know a lot of people in California who own a lot of
homes in Hawaii throughout the State, and they make a lot of money. The reason I'm doing my
home is, for it, when we're not here, it don't get broken into as we did experience that. I do hire
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people to take care of it, and I have most of my family here as well that go and I got emergency
numbers and everything.
So, the thing is the committee, the police, everybody has to work together and do something and
it does have to be regulated. And, number one, all the local people that have to put up with that
in their neighborhood, it has to be the most awful thing to do. And, I do live on the Hamakua
Coast. I have about 15 houses in my area, and I made sure all my neighbors was okay that it
would be done.
So, it's basically the responsibility of the owner and what their end goal is. A lot of `em, you
know, it does make a lot of local jobs for the people here which is wonderful. Tourists do bring
money in, spend money, everything. Hilo side does not accommodate, does not accommodate,
the tourism on this side, and especially with the Puna area now being gone.
So, that's a lot to consider. The police should enforce the law as well when somebody calls to
complain. How are you going to do that? Who knows? Thank you for your time. Appreciate it.
Good luck.
CLARKSON: Thank you. Any questions from the Commission for this testifier? No? Please
introduce yourself and proceed then, sir.
ROTH: Thank you for your time today. Aloha, my name is Joey Roth. I am a host. I hand built
a treehouse in Volcano, and people have come to my Airbnbs for their weddings, anniversaries,
honeymoons, birthdays, some of their most important life moments have happened there. I have
also hosted evacuees when the volcano struck. A lot of people from the Volcano House when it
shut down came and stayed at my Airbnb.
The main point I wanted to make was about the proposed ban on new vacation rentals in ag land.
A significant portion of this island is on ag land, and in those areas, it's very difficult to make an
income. I get to employ my neighbors as handymen, housekeepers, local property managers, and
I'm hoping to build another one on my other lot next door in the future.
I think vacation rentals are helping the local economy, and it's helping with my income, so I
really appreciate all of your time today, and thank you so much.
CLARKSON: Thank you. Any questions? Thank you both. Is there anybody else who is going
to be asking to testify? If not, I'll ask for a motion that we close public testimony.
DELA CRUZ: I make the motion to close public testimony.
RAFFIPIY: I second.
CLARKSON: All those in favor?
COMMISSIONERS: Aye.
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CLARKSON: Opposed? Motion carried. I'm just pondering the agenda. I think that our
discussion of a motion for action is going to be pretty extensive. At least, I have some
comments. And, then we also have items on the agenda having to do with review of the Charter
Commission.
HALL: We should probably just finish it, though. I think everybody's here. We've already lost
a lot of people already, but I guess [inaudible].
CLARKSON: Well, do they public testimony has been closed. You mean, out of courtesy, so
you want to hear what we do?
HALL: That's why they came I think.
CLARKSON: All right, we will discuss this item on the agenda. Finish this up and then break
for lunch and come back with our Charter review. Do we have a motion for action?
RAFFIPIY: Can Ican I still question? I'mI want to ask a question. Do we, so we're, if
we're going to move for action, that's with the recommendations that we have, right?
HALL: As a commission, you can adopt any of those recommendations and you can also get rid
of any of those recommendations, and you can make your own recommendations. So, you don't
have to, you know, take them as written. You can change any of them or eliminate them or add
to them.
RAFFIPIY: I see.
REPLOGLE: So, if we go for a favorable recommendation and one of us puts in another
recommendation to add to that, is that, is that favorable or unfavorable?
HALL: Well, if you're adding recommendations, so like, basically it's a package deal. So you
take this package, right, and you're looking at it, and you're either going to add or subtract from
it, but it becomes one package so, if you're saying you're giving a favorable recommendation on
everything that's in here. If you find one of these individual recommendations unfavorable, you
should take it out basically. Or, you know what I mean, you can't individually go over it and be
like this, you know what I mean? It's either it's in or out and then you go favorable or
unfavorable for the entire package.
REPLOGLE: But, we can't add something that's not here?
HALL: Oh no, you can add.
REPLOGLE: Oh, okay.
HALL: Yeah, if you want to add more recommendations on here, you're free to do that as well.
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RAFFIPIY: Mr. Chair, I have two major issues with this or concerns, probably concern. One is,
and I kind of erred earlier about your staff, Director, if—because I can see this as a major
undertaking for your Department, and if you are, if you have a figure, what the budget is going to
look like, additional budget that you'll be asking for, and if there's fees that we have here, if it
will be sufficient to cover your expenses. That's, that's the first concern that I have. Maybe we
need to really look at the fees.
And, then the other concern is the enforcement part of it. I don't know what we're going to call
it in the Planning Department. Enforcement division? And, what is their jurisdiction going to
be. What the scope of what they can, what they can do. Are they going to become more like a
police officer or they're going to just go out there to cite them and that's it? I guess that's house
rules that will have to be developed if we're going to adopt that idea to have the Planning
Department enforce this, this law.
YEE: So, through our rules and through other County Code, it already kind of dictates our
enforcement of zoning law. So, if there are violations, this would not be treated generally any
different than any other zoning violation that we have. So, they are basically enforcing Code,
and then they would following the rules that we have set forth for that and the remedies that we
have for that.
Clearly, our inspectors are not police, right? They don't go out even if somebody is doing
something that they really shouldn't be doing right in front of them. They can't physically go
out there and I'm going to have them stop them doing it. So, just to address that, they're not out
there to be police officers.
In terms of building in the input from complaints around, you know, if people aren't following
good -neighbor policy, those kinds of things, that's part of the decision that goes on around
issuing a nonconforming certificate.
In terms of budget and funding, you know if—if my Planning Department received funding for
every little thing that we should be funded for, my budget would be huge. I wish that we, it was
very correlated to the things we're supposed to do. That doesn't exist. However, again, we
can't get too far ahead of ourselves. We need to be able to place the law in place in terms of
what we want, understand the intent that clearly the Council and the Mayor wants enforcement
on this, and I have to hope that through our process and budgeting process, that then I'm
assigned the resources to be able to do, do our job on that.
So, I don't think we can go out there and try to build a budget right now. It isn't going to be too
useful at this moment in time except to know that we're expected to enforce what we do, once
the ordinance is passed.
RAFFIPIY: Okay. Can we inject a provision in here where these fees can be adjusted to make
sure that we cover the costs because I'm looking at myself? I don't have any of these businesses
and I'm a taxpayer. I pay tax on my property and all that. I don't want to be the one to end up to
pay for enforcing all these. And so that's the reason why I brought up these from the beginning
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because I want this—if they want to operate this kind of operations, let them pay for all their
stuff Not me as a property taxpayer, who I don't have property or operations like this.
YEE: Of course when I was buying some time earlier, you were in the restroom and I was
explaining how our schedule for fines is set in the, in our rules and procedures. It was clearly the
intent to want to increase the fines during Council deliberations at the committee level, and we
know they have to increase. Again, trying to imbed what that fine would be in the ordinance is
not the place it would be in rules and procedures, so eventually, when this goes on to Council, if
its passed, then it would come back to us to have to revise our rules and procedures, and that's
where we would capture, and that's where we would get more into the nitty gritty of what makes
sense for us.
RAFFIPIY: Thank you, sir.
DELA CRUZ: So, that's where we could implement higher fines?
YEE: Absolutely.
REPLOGLE: So, the Council couldn't be for us in this bill that they're presenting to come up
with this I heard people mention a task force or a group of people that would enforce these new
regulations and the fines and fees of this regulation would cover their employment, and as things
came into line, say there was less enforcement required, less fees, then the task force would
reduce in size accordingly. Or is it going to end up being dumped in your lap to invent the
wheel?
YEE: Well, our lap, because when we come back for rules and procedures, you'll be vetting
that, and so when we come back with—let's assume we're going to redo the fine schedule, you'll
have a chance to review that. Again, that will be the time for—and I'm looking at Amy shaking
her head, so I must be saying something incorrect.
SELF: No, it's the Department rules, `cause currently right now you have an enforcement
section under the County Code, under the Zoning Code for any kind of zoning violation. So, if
there's a violation under whatever sections Bill 108 is amending, the violations would be
handled pursuant to the enforcement section of the Code. And, then you have the Department
rules, the Planning Department rules that actually sets out the fines for the violations. So, in
other words, if they wanted to increase the fines for violations for short-term vacation rentals, it
would mean that the Planning Department would have to have a public hearing for amending
their rules and so it wouldn't come to the Planning Commission because it's not a Planning
Commission rule change. It would be a Planning Department rule change.
YEE: Thank you, Amy. Sorry. I knew at some point there was a public hearing on the rule
change so I guess that's the point is obviously you would have the ability to comment then on it.
So, I don't know if that answers your questions.
REPLOGLE: Yeah. Thank you.
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CLARKSON: Any further discussion?
REPLOGLE: Yes. I have this sense that the County Council hasn'tI like the bill. I think it's
totally needed. But, they haven't thought it completely through in that, like the staffing. Some
things like the not grandfathering in where nothing gets grandfathered in, but there's an appeal
process or you need to show up yourself and make it right, and if you were already operating and
you're doing it in a proper way and neighbors aren't complaining, then eh, lucky luck, here's
your permit. But, none of that's in here, and to just grandfather it all in seems too easy
HALL: —You want me to take this one?
SELF: Okay
HALL: —It's actually not, yeah, go ahead
SELF: Oh, I guess I should introduce myself again. Deputy Corporation Counsel Amy Self.
Okay, so a two -prong question you had. The grandfathering is not up to the County. That's
under State law. It's under—the State under HRS 46-4 spells out what the counties can do under
zoning, and one of the thing it says is that when you change your, if you amend your zoning
code, you cannot take away a property right that is legal, a legal use of the property at the time
that you amend the code. So, that's why they have to grandfather in because we have nothing in
our Code that makes it illegal for you to rent out a single-family dwelling either long-term or
short-term. We have no definition for a short-term vacation rental which is what Bill 108 will
do.
The other issue that you addressed—what was, now I've forgotten
JACKSON: Nonconforming process.
SELF: Oh, the nonconforming, oh, the certificate process.
REPLOGLE: Well, that it wasn't complete in that they haven't taken into consideration staffing.
I know it's eventually going to come back to Mr. Yee's lap, but.
SELF: That's why they set up the account for enforcement.
HALL: I think the other thing to add to is because we have no numbers, the whole point of this
is to gather the numbers, to have the data, `cause, you know, you can't just go to Finance and be
like give us another position. You know, there's, you have to vet that position and say, this is
how much more work we're going to have. This is how many—we can tell you now how many
vacation rentals there are, and then we can ask for positions, but before that, it's really hard to
consider since, you know, everybody has different numbers. We have numbers from 2,000 to
5,000, so I think that's pretty much—if I had to guess—why the County Council hasn't
addressed that in this bill right now. It's because that needs to be addressed after we have
numbers and then it goes to Finance through the County Council at that time. They'll be the
ones that actually award the positions.
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REPLOGLE: A concern I have, too, is a timeframe on this. When I hear that down in
Keaukaha, there were 11 homes and now six of them are vacation rentals by absentee owners,
and it's going to take us what six years to get down to okay, we can hire or we figured out the
fees. It seems that some of these issues or like the one lady who testified about six cars right
next door, people tapping on her window. She's going to wait that long for some resolution or is
that a police issue.
CLARKSON: No, she has to wait forever because that was a hosted vacation rental which isn't
even part of this.
REPLOGLE: They're grandfathered in.
HALL: No, they're not addressed in this bill.
CLARKSON: May I ask why it is, what case law supports the, your assertion that un -hosted
vacation rental businesses in residential areas are legal?
SELF: Well, it's a, if it's a single-family dwelling, you look under the Zoning Code. You look
at the zoning, like let's look at the RS zoning. One of the permitted uses is single-family
dwelling. It's not how you use that single-family dwelling. The use is the single-family
dwelling.
Right now, you could rent your house, if you're in RS, you can rent your house to whomever.
You can rent it long term. You can rent it to a college student for one semester. You can rent it
for less than 30 days. There's nothing that in our Code that does not allow that. As long as they
are renting it as a single-family dwelling which means you have to look at the definition of
single-family. It means any number of people who are related by blood or up to five unrelated
people. So, if they are renting it, short-term or anyway, long-term whatever, and they're renting
it to more than five unrelated people, that's a violation of the Zoning Code. It's difficult for our
zoning inspectors to prove that, but that's the way the Zoning Code is set up.
It's the same thing in Kauai, Maui County, and Honolulu. They never had, they had to do
nonconforming as well because it was never against any part of their code as long as they had a
single-family dwelling and if that was a permitted use for them whatever zoning district you're
referring to, it's perfectly legal. Zoning, you have to understand, that zoning has to be applied
strictly, or narrowly, sorry, narrowly, because what it essentially does is it takes property rights
away. Under the Constitution, you have property rights as a property owner, but what zoning
does is it comes and says what you can and can't do with your property, so we've allowed this to
happen with no regulations and so now under this HRS 46-4, it says that you cannot if it's a
legal use at the time you amend the Code, you have to allow that use to continue until that use is
abandoned, and in our County Code, it says under nonconforming use, if you abandon it for 12
months or longer, you can no longer have it as—you cannot use your property for that use. You
have to then comply with the current zoning.
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CLARKSON: So, the, when a new zoning application comes in, then the expectation is that
gradually as the years go by, the nonconforming uses will fade away—
SELF: —Right
CLARKSON: because there will be a few here every year that we'll decide to use it for
something else, and then they can never go back.
SELF: Right, exactly. That's how you get—we've got nonconforming uses all over the County
right now, and eventually, those uses will be abandoned and then they have to comply with
what's in the Zoning Code right now.
REPLOGLE: And is that the idea behind the—if you're due on January 31st to renew your
license or
SELF: —Your certificate—
REPLOGLE: permit and you miss it, you're done. That's what they were—in the review
today.
SELF: Yes.
REPLOGLE: And that's, that's another way to get rid of `em.
SELF: I think they're given a grace period or something like that. I gotta look and see—they've
changed, there needs to be changes in this thing but you have toI'll tell you another way to get
rid of `em is if—well, trying to get rid of them if you want to go there.
Let's say for instance someone is using their single-family dwelling. They're renting it out
short-term vacation rental right now as defined in Bill 108. If they do not have a building permit
for that structure, it's not a legal use of that property because you have to have a legal use in
order to have a nonconforming legal use. So, they're still going to have to have all their permits
that they need, plumbing, electrical, whatever. If they don't have that when they come in for a
nonconforming certificate, they're not going to get a certificate `cause they're not, they don't
have a legal use as it is because a single-family dwelling means it has all its permits. That's what
makes it a single-family dwelling, that it complies with the County Code in every law.
REPLOGLE: Thank you.
YEE: On the opposite side, I want to be clear, everything that just—again, this is Corporation
Counsel's legal opinion of not, you know, of not grandfathering, you know, things in.
Understand that if we try to say no we're not going to allow grandfathering in certain areas or
whatever, the argument she just, would make would be used with every case in front of us with
every appeal and as other counties have found out, it's taking an enormous amount of time for
them to deal with all the appeals that they're facing. So you can disagree with her legal opinion,
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but understand it's a strong legal opinion, and we would be tied up for years trying to deal with
that, with all the numerous folks that we wouldn't grandfather in.
AGUINALDO: I have a question for Mr. Chair and Mr. Director. For the short-term vacation
rentals, okay, I hear taxes, you know, whatever taxes, what about their property tax? Are they a
different type of tax that they're paying or they're just paying regular residential tax? That's
what none of `em, they only talk about taxes, but they did not specify about their property tax. Is
that something being enforced or we need to look at?
YEE: Mafia, go ahead.
HALL: That's actually a question for Real Property Tax because basically, I would guess to say
that yeah they're probably just taxed at the residential rate at this time because that's what they
are, right? They're just residential homes, and they're being used as rentals. But, there has been
talk I believe that, you know, if this bill does go through, now we can identify them, and then the
tax, that gives Real Property Tax an opportunity to look at those and also create a, you know, a
different classification basically. But, again, that's all just speculation, that we would have to
ask Real Property Tax really what they could do or what they would like to do with it when the
bill or if the bill is adopted.
CLARKSON: I have a question for Amy. So, going back to the zoning, the zoning laws. So, if
a use that was legal, you have a fully permitted structure, so it's legal there. It's being rented out
as a short-term rental which is legal. But, say they didn't pay all the TAT tax that State law
requires of short-term rentals, then they would have been operating illegally, so they wouldn't
have any right to ask for a nonconforming use because their operation wouldn't have been legal
in the first place.
SELF: Well, they could ask, but I would be advising that no, it's not a legal nonconforming use
at that point because they hadn't been complying with County and State laws.
CLARKSON: Okay, thank you.
SELF: Same if they haven't been, if they're delinquent on their County property tax. It's not
legal. You have to pay your taxes.
CLARKSON: But, as I understand it there's sections of Bill 108 with deal with proving that you
were nonconforming. Did that take into account an audit of prior tax payments? It just, as I
remember, it was kind of loose. Show some evidence that you had a short-term vacation rental
business, but not show in evidence that you complied strictly with all the laws that were
applicable all the time.
JACKSON: Joe, so, the bill currently does say that the applicant needs to provide evidence that
the use occurred prior to adoption of the bill which can include various tax documents. But,
then, for, actually under the renewal section of the nonconforming certificate, it says that the
director can deny the renewal if they are not meeting current law or if they haven't paid their
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County taxes, fees, fines, and penalties assessed. It doesn't specifically reference the TAT or
GET tax in that section, though.
CLARKSON: Well, my suggestion would be that it should not only reference it there but in the
issuance of the initial nonconforming use certificate, or whatever it's called, that—I mean if, I
don't know, I mean to me, it kind of looks like spot zoning that you are allowing resort hotel use
in residential communities, and I kind of wonder why the County is trying to deal with it after -
the -fact rather than actually changing the zoning to Resort hotel where needed. But, anyway,
assuming that State and Federal law and the Constitution requires prior legal use to be honored, I
think that this bill should make it extremely—an extremely detailed inspection of the legality of
the prior use so that any illegality can be used as a reason for denying the nonconforming use
certificate.
So, if we're going to make a motion for approval of this, I mean, we're advisory only anyway,
but I think that the section on evidence for the initial nonconforming use should be toughened up
considerably. To include all taxes that should have been paid—GET, property, TAT, Federal
income, and that any failure to pay taxes meant that you were not operating legally. The
Department gets to be a tax accountant, examiner, too.
YEE: Exactly, and I think that was some of the rub, early on there was more detail over what
documents could be shown, some of—and I think that's why specifically it tries to state to
County things that I can look at because that's readily available as much as I wish that the State
would share information with me directly.
HALL: Or the applicant share.
YEE: Or the applicant, but it becomes a little more difficult.
HALL: It's the law.
YEE: So, yes, so as Malia is mentioning, it's what the applicant is willing to share with us.
Trying for me to get information directly from the State can't happen, so I see what you're trying
to do. I think that was certainly, the Council was trying to craft something that would try to meet
that, and this is was kind of where we landed on the compromise. Yeah, I think it's certainly
well within the Commission's ability to forward a recommendation to tighten it up as much as
they deem legally able to do so.
CLARKSON: I think we're going to take a lunch break here. We're going to continue our
deliberations. We've tried to give you a sample of our thinking. You are welcome to come back
in an hour and see more of it, if you want. But, we're going to recess for one hour at this time
and reconvene actually at 2 p.m.
Chair Clarkson called a recess at 12:54 p.m., and the meeting was reconvened at 2: 01 p.m.
CLARKSON: It's now 2 o'clock. The Windward Planning Commission has reconvened, and
we will continue our discussion of any motion for action on the Ordinance No. 108, proposed
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Ordinance No. 108. Donn Dela Cruz had to leave. Do we still—one, two—we still have a
quorum.
So, the discussion when we left for lunch was—and I think, I don't know whether we can do it
now, but my proposal was to beef up the examination of the applications for certificate of non-
conforming use and that was, where was it, nonconforming use certificate. That was
Section 25-4.
HALL: On Page 4?
CLARKSON: Page 4. I would like to amend theI don't know, how do I do it? There was a
Planning Director's Recommendation. Maija, can you put that up? The recommendation for the
section of the ordinance, proposed ordinance that had to do with prior use. Short-term vacation
rental nonconforming use certificate.
JACKSON: Was that a recommendation? Is that the section?
CLARKSON: I thought there—maybe not. Maybe there was no recommendation regarding that
section. It's Section 25-4-1.
HALL: No, most of the recommendations address registration, not the certificate process, but
you can add a recommendation.
CLARKSON: So, the proposed language says, "The applicant seeking a short-term vacation
rental nonconforming use certificate shall have the burden of proof in establishing that the
property was in use prior to the effective date of this ordinance." I don't know whether you can
insert the word "was" legally used as a short-term prior to the effective date, short-term vacation
rental prior to the effective date of this ordinance. Evidence of such use prior to the effective
date of this ordinance shall include tax documents for the relevant time period. So, we would
change may to shall. Including excise tax filings, transient accommodations tax filings and
Federal and State of Hawaii income tax returns.
AGUINALDO: Is property tax included?
CLARKSON: Huh?
HALL: Oh, and property tax.
CLARKSON: And, yeah, right, other reliable—yeah, and also property tax. Or maybe an
examination of past property tax filings for conformance with actual use will be made. Property
tax filings are freely available to you. Aren't they freely available to the Department? Property
tax filings?
AGUINALDO: Property tax and classification—
HATA-FINLEY: Gilbert
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53
AGUINALDO: Yeah? Oh [grabbing mic], property tax and classification yeah? Of its use?
CLARKSON: So, it's my understanding that there should be no way that a non -hosted short-
term vacation rental could ever have a homeowners' exemption, for example.
JACKSON: That would seem correct because they're not living on the property. It's not their
primary residence.
CLARKSON: The—if that's the case then I would think a preliminary check should be made for
every one of them to see if their claims for property tax are correct, and if they aren't, according
to what Corp. Counsel is saying, then that certificate could be denied based on the illegality or
presumed illegality of their previous use.
JACKSON: Chair Clarkson, can I point you to another section? Maybe we can use some of the
wording from there. So, if you go down to the bottom of page 4, it has the criteria for denying
renewal of the nonconforming use certificate. Would you like to move some of those like (A)
and maybe (B) up to, up to the front of that section, and basically like you see the last sentence of
(B) where it says, "Based on the evidence submitted, the director shall determine whether to
issue a short-term vacation rental nonconforming use certificate..." Maybe we can somehow
break that out into its own section and say you have to establish the prior use by submitting these
tax documents, but then break out that last sentence into its own section and basically saying
something like issuance of nonconforming certificate and then say that you have to submit proof
that you paid your taxes, all the taxes, right? Including County. And, that the building is, has
been built with proper building permits.
HALL: I may have a better suggestion.
JACKSON: Okay.
HALL: What if under "Denial" you just add the word "Issuance" and then "and Renewal" so
that it covers both so that you can deny both with these criteria, and if you guys want to add to
that, then you can, but basically this one section will cover all denials of both the initial
certificate being issued and then the renewal.
JACKSON: That's way easier to add two words.
HALL: And, then, yeah, if you guys want to add to the actual "Denial" section and add more
details to it, then you can feel free to do that.
JACKSON: So, the heading would be "Denial/Issuance and Renewal of Nonconforming Use
Certificate," right? Does that kind of capture what you're going for, Joe?
CLARKSON: Then, on another issue going back toward enforcement, the "family" of no more
than five unrelated people, so if a—this would be in a hosted, I know it's not here, but I'm just
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trying to understand. If somebody is living in their house, if they are a single person, they can
have no more than four other people rent rooms from them.
SELF (from staff table): Unrelated.
CLARKSON: Unrelated.
SELF (from staff table): Up to five unrelated.
CLARKSON: Okay, so that means if a family of unrelated to who?
HALL: To each other.
SELF (from staff table): To the person who
AGUINALDO: Owns
JACKSON: Unrelated to each other.
CLARKSON: So, if there's one person
JACKSON: So, you can
CLARKSON: —and then a family of ten all related to each other come, they can, then there's
only
SELF (from staff table): Dependent on the number of people who are blood—
HATA-FINLEY: Amy
SELF: There's the limit on the number of people who are related to each other. So, it can be a
family of whatever number, but it has, if they're not related to each other, there can only be up to
five.
CLARKSON: Well, so explain that to me. So
SELF: I didn't make it up.
CLARKSON: No, no, but I mean so if the owner is living in the place, and a family of eight
comes, that family is all related to each other, how many unrelated people are living in the
house?
SELF: If a family of eight are all related and then one other person?
CLARKSON: Yes, how many unrelated people is that?
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SELF: Well, yeah
REPLOGLE: One
SELF: he's unrelated to any of the family members, right?
CLARKSON: So, there's only
SELF: [to Ms. Jackson] Can you pull up the definition on the—can you read it to him? This is,
it's defined in the Zoning Code. That's—she's going to read it to you.
JACKSON: So, the Zoning Code says that a single-family dwelling, it defines single-family
dwelling unit, and then defines family as—family means an individual or two or more persons
related by blood, state -sanctioned adoption, foster parentage, guardianship, or marriage or a
group of not more than five unrelated persons, excluding servants, occupying a dwelling unit.
REPLOGLE: People have servants? Wow!
CLARKSON: A group of not more than five unrelated persons.
JACKSON: Yes. It says or a group of not more than five unrelated persons.
CLARKSON: Okay, yeah, I still don't understand that, but I guess. So, if you had a group of
six related persons and another group of four related persons and another group of eight related
persons, now you're up to 19 people, and you don't have, you still don't have a group of five
unrelated people.
SELF: Isn't the word "or" in there? There's the word "or." So, it's related people or up to five
unrelated.
CLARKSON: Okay.
HALL: So, you can [inaudible] and a family of ten.
CLARKSON: Okay. So, I'm just thinking back to the house in Waikoloa Village that has five
or six rooms, well say as long as the number of—so you only get to count one person from each
group as being a member of the five unrelated, so you would have to have five different families
of however many members before you would have five unrelated people?
SELF: No, it's "a family" so all the family members are related. So, a single-family dwelling
means that it's a house that where five or where a family, a related family, is living
CLARKSON: —Okay, I understand that—
SELF: or up to five unrelated people are living—that's what makes a single-family dwelling.
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CLARKSON: Five unrelated people are living there.
SELF: Or five unrelated people. Right.
CLARKSON: So, the, okay.
REPLOGLE: So, if I'm in the house with my wife and three kids and my sister is there with her
husband and five kids, we're all related?
SELF: Yes.
REPLOGLE: Okay.
CLARKSON: But, if I'm there, and
[Laughter]
CLARKSON: No
SELF: We could do this all day
CLARKSON: No, no, I just, well, it
SELF: I'm sorry
AGUINALDO: Good discussion.
CLARKSON: I just don't understand how the Planning Department would ever determine
whether there were five unrelated people in a house. I
SELF: And, they have—that's the problem. They've had complaints like this before, and the
inspector goes out, and they askI don't know how, do you remember how theya lot of times
it is impossible to figure out. If you—you used to do permits.
ARAI: I mean there are so many—sorry, Daryn Arai, Deputy Director there are so many ways
you can slice this, right? But, bear in mind, you know, bear in mind that when the Code was
crafted, it was trying to make sure that we don't overly regulate or restrict the family. You
know, something like vacation rentals is relatively new. The Code has been in place since the
sixties. So, you know how you have hanai families? All those things come up from time to
time, and we want to make sure that the Code doesn't infringe on what people here locally may
constitute a nuclear family, even if it is hanai. Right? And, that's why some times the way its
written doesn't align very well, but what we tend to do is, the Code doesn't say that the family
when you start counting heads once it's beyond the primary homeowner. It doesn't say that. It
just says no more—either you're related or no more than five unrelated. So, we tend to look at
the biggest number, and if they are all related, we see if there is outlying individuals that exceeds
five. That's about the only way you can do it. So, if you have a homeowner, the primary
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homeowner, and she is a, there's a family of five, then we will look, if someone moves in that's
unrelated to that, the primary homeowner, we would make sure that it doesn't exceed the total
number of five unrelated to
CLARKSON: So, I'mso, if there is a family, an obviously related family of however many
living in there, and another family moves in of say four people, husband, wife, and two kids, now
you have eight people say husband, wife, and two kids, husband wife, and two kids. How many
are unrelated?
ARAI: Four, because there are four people who are not, that are not directly related by blood or
marriage for example to
CLARKSON: To the original group.
ARAI: Right. So, to, and remember, you know, because we're trying to define it,
CLARKSON: Okay
ARAI: we will always try to interpret it most generously. Did I say it correctly? Most
generously meaning
CLARKSON: In a hosted vacation rental situation, if there is a couple that's living there, and
they have a family of six come to stay, is that more than five unrelated people?
ARAI: No, because you see, that's what I'm saying. We try to interpret it most generously
because again we want to make sure that the total number doesn't exceed five unrelated, right?
So, if you have, if the primary homeowners consist of only two people, and they allow a family
of ten to move in
CLARKSON: Right, for a night
ARAI: Or for whenever, then what we would do is what we'll probably look at the family of ten
and then making sure that the unrelated doesn't exceed five which is the two, so they'll be in
compliance. Again, we will look at the numbers to provide the most generous interpretation of
the Code
CLARKSON: Okay
ARAI: because the last thing we want to do is start, you know, infringing on what people
determine to be a nuclear family, and there's too many nuances when it comes to families. Like
I keep mentioning hanai.
CLARKSON: Well, then, in the case of the testifier from Waikoloa Village who had a room,
that was renting out six rooms, I don't see how there's any way that that, if all of them were
rented, well, if they were rented to separate parties, that would have to be a violation.
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ARAI: It depends on how they are being rented. You know, because this draft bill I think talks
about five rooms max being rented. But, you have to also
CLARKSON: —This is for un-hostI'm actually side tracking onto the hosted.
SELF: [Inaudible]
CLARKSON: No, it isn't, but I was going to bring that up next.
SELF: Hosted or not hosted, it still has to comply with the definition of single-family dwelling,
which is what we just talked about. So, it doesn't matter if it's hosted or non -hosted.
CLARKSON: It still can't have, no matter how it can
SELF: Because the use of the property is a single-family dwelling. That's the permitted use for
the property is single-family dwelling.
CLARKSON: Well, it seems to me that that if you're hosted or un -hosted, if you're using a
single-family as a short-term vacation rental, the presumption should be that it's very likely that
unrelated people are going to be living in the house at the same time. And, well, I mean, how
many times was short-term vacation rentals, especially multiple—with multiple rooms, not
whole house, but multiple rooms for rent, are all of the people and the multiple rooms going to
be in the same family? Very rarely.
SELF: Well, it's no different than right now. Like I said, they've got, they've received
complaints before about, you know, about so many people in a house that's being rented short
term, and the inspectors go out, and they ask questions, but you know, they ask for their IDs that
kind of stuff, but it is, it's very difficult to enforce. It has been—it is now difficult to enforce,
and it's not going to be any easier once Bill 108, if Bill 108 passes, I don't see it being any easier
to enforce.
CLARKSON: I agree. It doesn't look very easy to enforce, so I just, I don't know. I see the,
heard the testimony. I haven't paid much attention to this since I've never either had a short-
term vacation rental or used one. It was always something that was, you know, out there. I've
heard of them before. Read stories about the giant homes on Oahu with 20 bedrooms, but
SELF: I think the main problem is that I've been at every Council meeting where this bill has
been heard, and it seems like the biggest complaints are the noise, but that's not a zoning issue.
That's an issue for the police to deal with because that is, you know, that's a different
CLARKSON: I, I, I want to beg to differ there. There's not only the immediate noise and
parking which we've had issues here before with having their tenants park on the street. There's
also the issue of the reduction of rental housing for long-term renters. I mean, when you have a
situation in Keaukaha where you go from zero percentage vacation rentals to 50 or 60 percent,
all of those houses are taken away from the market for people who might want to rent a house for
their family near where they work in Hilo. I mean, who was it that said we're behind the, we're
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behind schedule here. If something doesn't get done, you know, there's apparently so much
money to be made that half the island could be short-term vacation rentals before we know it.
SELF: But, if you look at the reason is because this has never been regulated. This bill seeks to
do that.
CLARKSON: I understand that.
SELF: That's what this bill does.
CLARKSON: Yes.
SELF: And, if—even if they get a nonconforming use certificate, if they abandon that use for 12
months or more which is in the Zoning Code currently, then they, whoever, they can't go back to
that use. They have to comply with the Code as it reads. Once they've abandoned that use, they
have to go back, and they have to comply with the Zoning Code which would mean they'd have
to comply. They wouldn't be able to get a nonconforming use anymore, because they will have
abandoned that use.
CLARKSON: All these—all these issues would seem to apply to hosted short-term vacation
rentals, too. Was there, why is it that was not part of this bill? Do we know what was the reason
for that?
YEE: I would agree with Stephanie Donoho's testimony that she felt like there were political
reasons that the Council—there were probably two major areas they felt like they couldn't
address right now which was, one was hosted rentals and areas that we know could use more
vacation rentals, let's say around Volcano, Puna, that may not allow enough right now. It was
very intentional that they felt like that was step two down the road, which is certainly part of the
Background/Recommendation that we made, was that there needs to be a step two down the
road.
CLARKSON: Okay, thank you. Does anybody else on the Commission—do any other
Commissioners have suggested revisions either to the draft ordinance or to the recommendations
by the Department?
AGUINALDO: Yeah, I have one that Commissioner Dela Cruz indicated about the quota. I
know we referenced Oahu as the one percent, you know, as a reference. Are we going to have,
you know, something to discuss about that? That he previously discussed earlier?
CLARKSON: I may be wrong, but from all that the Corporation Counsel has said, there's no
way to retroactively create a quota for nonconforming vacation rentals. Presumably, there could
be a quota for zoning areas where it's permitted. I mean, can, can the Department say to all the
people who come in for a nonconforming use certificate "oh, I'm sorry, our quota is 200 and the
last one just came in yesterday."
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SELF: Not for the nonconforming. It would be for new ones coming in, so I guess what Maija
was saying Honolulu did was they took a look at each area and if it already had a certain number
of nonconforming uses in there, then they had to limit the number of new ones that could be
established.
You can make limits going forward, but you can't take the property right away from the person
who already has, is making a legal use of their property. So, anytime you change the Zoning
Code, you amend the Code, you can't all of a sudden take away somebody's right to use their
property the way they are using it currently if they're using it legally within today's Code. So,
then, that's why you had to give them the nonconforming so that in the future should they
abandon that use, then they have to come into conformance with the Code that's in existence at
that time.
CLARKSON: But, under this proposed ordinance, there would be no new nonconforming at all.
Isn't that correct?
SELF: Right, because they had to be, they have to be using their property legally for that
purpose before 108 passes, and then once 108 passes, if it does, then they can come in and apply
for a nonconforming certificate.
CLARKSON: What, this—I'll not interrupt, this one question, though. The national legislative
action, they actually set a date before they enact the law. When they start to discuss a new law,
they set the retroactive date. Does the County Council do the same thing? Has that date been
set? Or, they just wait until they pass the law and that becomes the date? To pass the ordinance.
SELF: It's the date, it's the effective date. If you read—well, there's a section in the Zoning
Code that has certain language in there that indicates thatI wish I had it with me—it's, what
does it say. Anyway, they were going to put a date in, but the date will be the date that the bill
becomes effective. It has to do with the way our Code is set up.
CLARKSON: So, are you satisfied, Commissioner, that there won't be any new nonconforming
after this ordinance has passed?
SELF: Right.
CLARKSON: There will only be old ones and that will be capped at the number that existed at
the time the ordinance passes and gradually, that number of nonconforming will go down
because no new can be added and very gradually old ones will be, go out of that use.
AGUINALDO: I just think that we still have to identify who is in compliant and is in the old,
`cause we don't know. We actually don't know who is in compliant.
SELF: Yeah, that will be determined
AGUINALDO: —Yeah, so
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SELF: by the Planning Department once they come in.
AGUINALDO: That would have to be determined yet because we only saying for new. We
even don't know that the old ones, you know, they could be running for years, but are they in
compliant to what is being enforced? That's, that's something that we don't even know. Maybe
there's only a handful is doing it, and the rest are not in compliant. So, I think that needs to be,
you know, further discussed, I guess.
REPLOGLE: Is there a way that you could say somehow in this bill that the nonconforming
must come forward and get registered by a certain date. We don't know who they are, right?
But, they are out there, and they gotta come forward. Failure to come forward and register will
result, when you are found out, in complete revocation of your right to have a bed and
breakfastI mean a short-term vacation rental. So you have something in there, a mechanism
that says, oh we have this rental, we better go and get in compliance so we can keep doing it. If
the money is involved in it like you say, they'll come forward. If they are illegal, then they'll
hide, and all it's going to take is somebody to come in and say, they are running a noncompliant
operation, and boom! Now, the Planning Department, it's not even an investigation. They just
go in and put an end to it.
ARAI: You know a lot of what you are recommending is actually built into the bill already. The
whole premise behind this bill is to basically say we don't know what's out there. You have 180
days from the adoption of this bill to register with the Planning Department. If you fail to
register within 180 days, in so many ways, you vacated any opportunity to become legal if
you're not situated within the properly zoned, or Resort zoned areas. So, it's a pretty hard stop,
and then once you're declared—say, if you're in an unpermitted area and you're already existing,
you can come in for a nonconforming use certificate, right? That is the whole reason of why you
have to annually renew, because we want to make sure that you're adhering to all of the
guidelines and the standards expected of a vacation rental, which is like the "good neighbor"
policy and all of those things, paying your taxes. So, every year, we will have to go back and
revalidate that you're staying within the confines of the bill or the law.
So, once you stray outside of it, then the Director has that opportunity to no longer issue you the
nonconforming use certificate which means that you have to sunset your operations. It's pretty
draconian because it hits hard. You miss that date even by a single day, you're out, you know,
so.
REPLOGLE: Thank you.
ARAI: But, I should also clarify, and thanks to Maija for pointing this out, that, you know, it
raises the question that if you are a single-family dwelling on a lot, agricultural lot that was pre -
1976, it may afford you the opportunity to apply for a Special Permit to allow a vacation rental,
because again, the whole purpose is vacation—if you're a farm dwelling, then you should always
stay a farm dwelling. That's why you're in an ag area, right? But, if you're in an older
subdivision, pre -76, single-family dwellings were allowed back then. So, you should have the
right to at least to apply for a Special Permit, and if you meet the criteria, then the Commission
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may exercise the ability to grant approval. So, there may—and there's a lot of pre -76
subdivisions out there. Paradise Park, Ainaloa.
CLARKSON: Why would they be able to apply for a Special Permit even though they were not
making use, that use of their property before the ordinance was passed?
ARAI: Because the pre -76 lot doesn't hold residential use to farm dwellings only.
SELF: Okay, there was a time before—okay, pre -1976, dwellings were called single-family
dwellings under State law even on ag land. Okay, so then, they decided to get serious about
saving ag land because there was, you know, the sugar mills were closing, all this ag land was
being sold off, and so they wanted to preserve ag. So, then the State passed a big—they
amended 205 and determined that they wanted ag land to be used as ag land and so a single-
family dwelling had to be a farm dwelling, which means that it, as a farm dwelling, it had to be
tied to a farming activity or ag activity on ag land, that's under State ag district boundary.
So, the fact that the way we're interpreting the statute is under 205-4.5, it says, it gives an
exception for lots that were created prior to them passing that bill, which was prior to 1976.
Construction of houses on those lots that were created prior to 1976 are single-family dwellings.
So, it doesn't have the label of a farm dwelling which means it's tied to ag.
CLARKSON: No, I understand that. But, even though it's a single-family dwelling, and the
County Council creates an ordinance saying that short-term vacation rentals are not allowed in ag
zoned areas, and why would a, why wouldn't a single-family residence even in a prior, in a lot
created prior to 1976 be allowed to come in and say I want to be a short-term vacation rental now
even though I never have been. I don't understand that. Daryn was seeming to imply that if,
if
ARAI: No, no, no, yeah, I guess I was thinking about those—you were talking about
nonconforming, right?
CLARKSON: Right.
ARAI: And you were basically saying there will be no new nonconforming, and I guess I meant
to clarify that there could beI wouldn't use the word nonconforming—there could be new
vacation rentals who apply after the bill if it is on a pre -76 lot, which allowed for single-family
residential use. They could at least apply for a Special Permit which is to allow a use that is not
permitted under, within the agricultural district. I mean, the whole purpose of this bill is to
create a classification of vacation rentals, right? And, that is normally not permitted on
agriculturally designated land, so you can apply for a Special Permit, but the question I've had,
and we've kind of tried to elevate the discussion, is that the Special Permit has a whole bunch of
criteria and, you know, you've gone through a whole bunch of them, right? Consistency with
General Plan, consistency with CDP's, consistency with Zoning Code. All of those things. You
have the right to apply under State law, but the question is can you approve a Special Permit
knowing that the County has created a specific Code section that says we want to relegate
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vacation rentals only to Resort -designated areas. And, that is an unclear thing and is something
that I think needs to be addressed with if someone should apply for a Special Permit.
CLARKSON: Okay, I agree. Then the other thing that you mentioned, Daryn, was that there
were going to be given a 180 days, six months after the passage of this ordinance, if it is passed,
to apply for a nonconforming use certificate. Why so long? I mean, you could—you can't say
one day or two days. That would be arbitrary and capricious. But, why not 60 days? Or 30
days? Or 60 or 90? Why make it that much easier for nonconforming use applicants to do so?
ARAI: I don't recall exactly why a 180 days was picked out, but I think it's from a practicality
standpoint. If some of the numbers that we heard from the audience today -2,600 units out
there possibly even up to five thousand as Mr. Stefan has indicated, that's a lot for a
department that currently is not geared up for this type of
CLARKSON: —Well, their—their issuance of a certificate may not be accomplished
immediately, but certainly, they could apply and be put in the que.
ARAI: Sure. And, you're correct in the sense that it just says to register with the Department
within a 180 days. It's not like we have to issue the confirmation letter within that same time
period. But, again, we're talking about a voluminous number. Some of the Commissioners have
expressed concerns about how do we get the word out. It's going to take a lot of effort to make
sure people are well informed and give them reasonable opportunity to try and register with the
Department. Because, keep in mind, that what we're trying to do is first find out what is out
there. So you don't want to just give a small window of opportunity. You really want to find out
what's out there.
CLARKSON: Well, it seems to be that the intent of the bill is to give the least opportunity as
possible so that these nonconforming uses are wiped out so to speak as quickly as possible. I
mean, you're going to make them show all these tax records. You're going to make them apply
annually. You're going to kill their nonconforming use certificate if they don't apply within the
annual requirement. Why bend over backwards to make it easy for them to get the certificate in
the first place?
ARAI: Well, you know, again, it's a difficult area to be, you know, it's a difficult area to begin
with and keeping in mind that for decades, we have basically been saying we do not regulate as
long as you don't exceed five unrelated, you have the opportunity to do so, and now you're
creating new legislation that basically prohibits this. I think providing a reasonable window for
them to try and register and be recognized by the County, I think, is a reasonable thing to do.
RAFFIPIY: Mr. Chair, I think if the numbers that we've been hearing during the testimony is
correct, 2,000 or 11,000 or 5,000, I think 180 days probably be better for, kind of help our
Department, Planning Department to address all of this. They may get inundated in 60 days.
They wouldn't be able to do anything but issue certificates.
CLARKSON: No, I think there's a misunderstanding that this section says the owner of any
short-term vacation rental which operated outside of a permitted zoning district prior to the
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effective date of this ordinance shall submit an application. It doesn't say that they will be given
a certificate. They will submit an application for a nonconforming use certificate to the Director
no later than, and I think it should be 60 days, not a 180 days.
So, I mean, if they can't get it together to submit an application and fill out a form in two
months, why give them six months? So, anyway, that's my suggestion.
YEE: I would have to agree with Thomas that some of the compromise was the impact on staff
and although they are making just an application, it comes with plenty of questions with each
applicant, you know, what they have to submit, the information they need. It's not something
that staff would just be there and there's an inbox that they just throw their application in, and if
it was, maybe we could handle it under 60 days. But, I don't think we have any impression
that's the case that it is likely like every applicant will have questions, and we have to make staff
available to help answer those questions possibly. So, 60 days, it certainly would not be ideal by
any means from a Planning staffing issue. Is a 180 days generous? Yes, I can't recall the date,
the number of days changed over time. But, again, the Commission can certainly recommend a
different number of days.
AGUINALDO: Mr. Chair, I have a question. You know, we don't know who is compliant,
noncompliant. Is there a way we can regulate no matter what if they're compliant, noncompliant
come in? Register? So, you can know. And, the fee, that $250, if you increase it, even $500,
$500 times five thousand, 2.5 million dollars.
You know, because right now, we're expecting the public to police each other regardless if it was
something being discussed as commissioners. That's one way you can corral everybody. Even
though they comply, there's only a one-time fee. Then, we have public record. Somehow, we
will know who is short-term vacation rentals `cause right now we don't know. But, the fee, if
you increase the fee, I mean just imagine even if at 2,000, that's a lot of money. Then, we can
utilize that money within the County maybe. Just an idea.
ARAI: I appreciate the discussion, Commissioner. Maybe kind of to set, set a good framework,
a lot of what we do from an enforcement standpoint is complaint driven, and the reason so is
because it's actually spelled out in the rules of practices and procedure. There are times when
we've been, you know, informed, especially by Corporation Counsel, that as long as we don't
intentionally do like—how do I say this—only selected area or selected enforcement, that we
have a fiduciary responsibility that if we become aware of a Code violation, even though in the
absence of an actual complaint, we're somewhat obligated to follow up, right?
So, that being said, knowing that a lot of what we do or what you do today should the bill be
adopted, we still have to develop rules of practices and procedure, and that's going to define all
the steps, all the little things we have to do in order to implement the requirements of this
particular bill, and one big component is the enforcement side. So, you know, it's not something
we've spoken to the Director about, but we think based on past practices and what has been
articulated to us in the past, I think we should maybe look at our rules and just eliminate that
complaint driven process and do it where we do make, we can make concerted efforts
independently within the Department to go and try to ensure that the provisions of this particular
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bill is in force, which means being able to go to like Airbnb websites and look. It's reasonable to
do.
So, I just want to provide that reassurance to you so it's not like, you know, we don't have
mechanisms in place. We could build it into the process.
HALL: But, I wanted to add to that. I think that's the intent of this bill, is to have people come
in and register, and then those who don't, you know, hopefully, we can, you know, somebody
will complain or at least somebody will mention that there's one in their neighborhood.
But, if you're talking about you want everyone to register, like even hosted, then that's a whole
different thing. That's a whole other recommendation. So, do you want is that what you're
saying like you wanted even hosted?
AGUINALDO: No.
HALL: Okay. But, you just want to make sure everybody registered `cause that's what they're
actually recommending, with they added the word, their recommending to Council to add the
word "all" so that all unhosted vacation rentals come in and at least register whether they are in a
permitted area or not. And, that way, the Planning Department will have a comprehensive list of
the people who are using their dwellings as vacation rentals.
CLARKSON: One of the things I worry about on the 180 days is that that would allow someone
a chance to establish a new vacation rental after the enactment of the ordinance. Well, how are
you going to prove it? Then, a 180 days later, they come in and show you all their—especially if
the 180 days overlaps the end of a tax year. Oh, here are all my taxes I paid last year for my
vacation rental business and.
ARAI: Well, again, it's from the date of the adoption of the bill, so if they show us that they
were established, they would have to, like for example, when did they actually activate their
GET license for example.
CLARKSON: Okay. There you go.
ARAI: You know, I know there are all these little workarounds that could probably happen. It
depends on us, on the information they provide if they feel that we need to dig deeper in order to
qualify, then, you know, we'll have to do so. But, again, it doesn't mean that—the whole
purpose of annual registration or annual renewal is for us that each year we take a look at things,
and there may be information that surfaces that we were not aware of in previous years. That
will give us that opportunity, to determine whether or not we should continue to issue these
nonconforming certificates.
And, I should also note for the record, and I'm sorry, I'm going to have to leave for a meeting at
3 o'clock very shortly, but my recollection of why a distinction was made between hosted versus
non -hosted is because when you're dealing with hosted, a lot of times, you're dealing with
people who, whose home is their primary residence, and they're doing it as supplemental
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income. This is a bill, and you can see from the testimony and the over one year it's taken to
craft this bill, it's very, very difficult just dealing with the non -hosted, which are homes in which
is not the primary residence of the landowner.
So, I think the Council simply wanted to chew, I mean take bite-sizedI mean it's a big bite
granted, but just a bite -sized piece instead of trying to deal with a much more complicated issue
of dealing with hosted rentals.
So, that's my recollection of why they made the distinction.
CLARKSON: I have one more question for Amy, and it relates to the grandfathering in. You
say you can't not grandfather in people who are operating legally within a new zoning ordinance,
but does that mean that the nonconforming certificate holders have grandfathered in the
regulations that were present when they started their business and that they cannot be held to the
good neighbor policy because that would be a new condition on the operation of their short-term
vacation rental?
SELF: No, because they still get their use, right? It's the use that they have to look at. That's
what zoning is all about.
CLARKSON: Okay.
SELF: It's how, what is the use of the property. So, they still have their nonconforming use, but
if they, when they come in to get a certificate, they have to comply with the terms of the
certificate.
CLARKSON: Okay, so as long as it doesn't prevent their use completely, it can be a
condition
SELF: —Yes, it can be conditioned
CLARKSON: with new conditions.
SELF: Yes.
CLARKSON: Okay, thank you. Any other suggestions for amendments to the ordinance or to
the Director's recommendations? So far, we only have one I think that—it's the one that I
proposed to add to the language for the evidence required for the issuance of a nonconforming
use certificate.
RAFFIPIY: Mr. Chair, so that makes 17 recommendations? Recommendation No. 17?
CLARKSON: Go ahead. Huh? Go ahead.
RAFFIPIY: The recommendation that you made. That would be Recommendation No. 17 in
addition to the Director's recommendation, right?
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CLARKSON: I lost track. Were there only 16 original ones?
AGUINALDO: Mm-hmm.
CLARKSON: Yes, it would.
RAFFIPIY: Thank you, Chair.
CLARKSON: And, I'll just reiterate that it's the part of the, it affects Section 25-4-1, "Evidence
of such use prior to the effective date of this ordinance shall include tax documents" instead of
,'may include." For the relevant time period, including: State of Hawaii general excise tax
filings; transient accommodations tax filings; and Federal and State income tax filings, Federal
and State income tax returns, and property tax records including—now I don't know how you
want to phrase itexamination of the use conforming to the taxable status. In other words, if
they're claiming homeowner's exemption, and it's in a non -hosted single-family residence, then
that would not be legal and their application would be denied.
JACKSON: Are you proposing to put that in the prior use section where they are trying to
establish that the use has existed?
CLARKSON: Correct.
JACKSON: So, you're not recommending Malia's suggestion
CLARKSON: —Well, she had both and the renewal. She wanted to say denial and—what, I
forget what it was, that she wanted to combine.
HALL: So, basically, what you're saying in your section is under prior use, so but what you're
talking about is you want to give the Director the power to do these things when he first issues
the certificate, and so, my suggestion was because this denial asks, basically says the renewal
may be denied but would also say like the issuance may be denied by the Director if he verifies
the following. "[(A)] The applicant has violated provisions of this section or other pertinent
laws; [(B)] The owner is delinquent in payment of County taxes, fees, fines, or penalties..."
which we could, you know, add in GET or TAT to that if you wanted to. "[(C)] The owner or
reachable person has not been reachable" but that is usually for renewal. And, we can also use
police reports or verified neighbor complaints so basically when they come in for their
nonconforming use, those things could all be looked at by the Director, and they could be denied
their initial certificate if there has been a lot of police reports and/or, you know, they are
delinquent in the payment of their taxes and/or they are not following the law, the pertinent laws.
CLARKSON: No that's, that's an excellent suggestion. I, I would like to see Section B and
Section F kind of combined.
AGUINALDO: Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a recommendation as well. For Section 25-4-,
there's nothing on it, short-term vacation rental number (b)(2)? When it states—
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CLARKSON: —What page?
AGUINALDO: This is on page 2 on the County of Hawaii in the back on the ordinance. As far
as increasing the fee from two -fifty. I know we're being very conservative, you know, on the
two -fifty, one-time fee that, you know, I would like to, you know, quickly discuss as far as that
$250 fee. It's a one-time fee, you know.
RAFFIPIY: I believe the two -fifty is the renewal fee and $500 is the one-time fee.
JACKSON: Is that what you're suggesting? Because the way it is now, the initial registration
fee is two -fifty.
AGUINALDO: Right.
JACKSON: And the annual renewal fee is also two -fifty for the nonconforming use certificates.
RAFFIPIY: And there's the Director's recommendation to increase the one-time fee to five
hundred, right?
JACKSON: I don't think that the Director recommended—that was for the fines, the daily fines,
yeah?
RAFFIPIY: Okay, I got it.
AGUINALDO: I just think that even though that is that, on a yearly basis, I mean like for
example like for myself in my profession, I pay more than that, you know, yearly, and these guys
are running an operation business because it's not considered as a residential rental. It's a short-
term, the word "vacation" rental. So, to me, it's, it's still worth it. I mean it's generating
revenue for, you know, these people. I just think that yeah, you can do a one-time fee of that
$500 then, you know, you can go for the two -fifty after that, because then at least it gives us, the
County, the opportunity to do their due diligence as well to make sure that they are all in
compliant. It's like you, yeah, I just think that that is, you know, should be increased.
RAFFIPIY: I concur.
REPLOGLE: I concur.
JACKSON: So, Recommendation 18? Increase the initial registration fee to $500 and keep the
annual renewal at two -fifty, correct?
CLARKSON: No, and just let me clarify. That's for nonconforming, but for conforming, where
they're in a zoning district where the use is permitted, right now, there's only a one-time fee of
two -fifty. That's it forever.
AGUINALDO: I would think that regardless, they should all be the same.
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CLARKSON: Okay.
AGUINALDO: A one-time fee of $500.
CLARKSON: And an annual fee of two -fifty?
AGUINALDO: Yeah.
CLARKSON: I'll vote for that, too.
YEE: I want to confirm. Gilbert, the renewal, you weren't saying for the conforming or are you
suggesting renewals for conforming areas, too?
AGUINALDO: That is correct.
YEE: Okay.
CLARKSON: One of the things to concur with Gilbert's suggestion is that it looks like fees and
fines are going to be the only source of funding for enforcement, so let's make sure or
recommend to the County that they make sure that the businesses that are being enforced pay the
cost of enforcement.
REPLOGLE: Yeah, that it doesn't go to the dog pound.
AGUINALDO: Mm-hmm.
CLARKSON: In fact, if it were up to me, I would add a nineteen that the registration fees and
renewal fees and fines be reserved for the enforcement of this ordinance.
REPLOGLE: Yes.
CLARKSON: But, I don't know if I'll get away with that.
REPLOGLE: You will. It's a recommendation.
AGUINALDO: Yeah.
JACKSON: While Amy is looking at the bill, real quick here, can we back up to Commissioner
Aguinaldo's recommendation? Here, Amy it's here. So, Commissioner, you suggested an
annual renewal fee of two -fifty for even conforming short-term vacation rentals so the issue with
that is that there's no process or mechanism in the bill for the Department to ask for annual
renewals for all short-term vacation rentals so we would have to add a lot more language to the
bill to do that.
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YEE: And, I should add the reason why we, the bill was written the way it was, part of the input
was if you are a permitted use, having to come in and apply for something you are permitted to
do was a, was kind of hard to want to go down that road with that. A one-time fee was a
compromise. At one point, there wasn't even a fee for it. They added the one-time fee to it. Just
giving you background.
CLARKSON: I'm still okay with it. Iremember, this is advisory to the Council. The Council
can do what they want, but at least they're asking us for our opinion. Hey, this is our opinion.
JACKSON: So, along with that, you would want some type of annual renewal of the registration
for the conforming the STVRs in the conforming areas, too. Okay.
CLARKSON: I mean, this section about the conforming, I mean shall register with the Director
and pay a one-time fee of $500 prior to the use of such rental and a $250 renewal fee annually
thereafter, I mean, it's not a whole lot of language to add.
JACKSON: Easy.
CLARKSON: Easy peasy.
SELF: The other thing you were talking about, you were asking about it, all the money going to
a special fund to be used by the Planning Department rather than the dog-catcher. So, that's in,
that's on page 5, 25-4-3. So, all of the, all the fees collected with one-time registration fees for
short-term vacation rentals and nonconforming—you'll have to change that if you want it to be
an annual fee.
CLARKSON: Where are we talking about?
SELF: This is page, the bottom of page 5, Section 25-4-3.
AGUINALDO: Section
CLARKSON: Oh, yes.
SELF: Little "c."
AGUINALDO: Oh, "c?" Okay, got it.
CLARKSON: Oh, that's the enforcement.
AGUINALDO: Mm-hmm.
SELF: So, that's everything. All the money goes into to that account for purposes of
enforcement. But, now that you're asking them to have an annual fee for all of `em for the
conforming and nonconforming? This says that it is to be funded by fees collected in connection
with one-time registration fees for short-term vacation rentals pursuant to Section 25-4 (b),
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nonconforming use certificate renewal application fees pursuant to section 25-4-1 and fines, so
anybody want to add a word in there that says.
CLARKSON: No, I'd like to subtract a bunch of words.
SELF: Oh, okay.
CLARKSON: This account shall be funded by all fees and fines collected under this ordinance.
SELF: Okay, that's excellent. Could you repeat it? All fees and fines collected pursuant to
this—
CLARKSON: Ordinance
SELF: ordinance.
JACKSON: Okay.
SELF: Well, I wouldn't put ordinance. I would put .
JACKSON: Bill? No?
SELF: No, because one it's codified
HALL: Section.
JACKSON: Pursuant to this section.
HALL: Yeah.
SELF: But they're not they're not changing it in that section.
CLARKSON: Section 25.
HALL: Or we, or we're leave this whole section, yeah?
CLARKSON: Oh, this section.
HALL: Yeah, yeah, for the fines that we make.
CLARKSON: Yeah.
HALL: Yeah, 25-4 basically.
CLARKSON: Do we have a motion for action?
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REPLOGLE: I'm sorry?
HALL: Can we doMaija, do you need any more clarification on? `Cause I think we might
want to flush out Joe's recommendation a little bit more because I'm still—`cause I think he still
wants to add words to the prior use portion, not just my suggestion. So, I guess, maybe just go
that route real quick.
JACKSON: Okay.
HALL: In the prior use, would this be what you're thinking? If in the prior use section, we just
take out the word "may" and make it "shall" so that would make them have to submit the tax
documents? Would that, and then basically, there's that and then included in the denial section,
there's all the wording about basically why it could be denied. Would that satisfy you
CLARKSON: Yes
HALL: Or do you still want to add
CLARKSON: No, no, I would like to combine the import of (b) and (f) in seeking a short
term's nonconforming use certificate, a vacation rental nonconforming use certificate, so that the
parts where it can be denied on renewal, also apply to granting initial use, granting the initial
certificate. So, basically, it wouldI don't know what the best way to do it, is to put in granting
the certificate, you know, you could put it all in one section either granting, renewing, or
denying. All have the same standards.
JACKSON: I think Malia had suggested that under the denial section under (f)(1), changing that
wording to say, "The initial issuance and renewal of a nonconforming use certificate shall be
denied if the director finds that the short-term vacation rental use has been abandoned." Oh, I
see. And, then in (2) again, the initial issuance, I'm sorry, use that language on (2), so "The
initial issuance and renewal of a nonconforming use certificate may be denied if the director
verifies any of the following" and then adding to (b), adding the GET and TAT tax.
So, if, "The owner is delinquent in payment of County taxes, GET, TAT fees, fines, or penalties
assessed in relation to the short-term vacation rental." Good?
CLARKSON: Actually, let's, I think it would be simpler to leave it the way it is but just also
add the language in, in the denial section, "Police reports or verified neighbor complaints and the
delinquency in payment of County taxes" and that stuff would all be assessed already in the
issuance of the certificate. It's already, all the tax issues are mentioned already there. The only
thing that needs to change really in this is just add the same language that's in (D), "Police
reports or verified neighbor complaints" up into section, subsection (b), Prior Use.
In other words, they not only have to establish that they had the nonconforming rental, that they
did everything legally, and that they hadn't had any police reports or neighbor complaints prior
to giving them the certificate of nonconforming use. I mean, I think it would be kind of
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cumbersome to try and combine the initially issuance with the annual renewal or denial in one
paragraph.
AGUINALDO: And, also when you indicated about taxes, does that include, when someone
pays their taxes, they can say yeah, I paid my tax, here's my check. They should verify with
their, they call it a State Tax Clearance. So, when you go to the State Department of Taxation,
they will, you know, notify you that, eh, his tax, he paid his taxes versus just, you know, showing
oh, I paid my taxes.
CLARKSON: Well, the, Gilbert, the proposed ordinance says general excise tax filings,
transient accommodations tax filings. These are the returns, not just the check that said oh yeah.
AGUINALDO: Right, but the—it's filing, when you're filing for your tax, it's the, they will
give you a print out of your tax that you paid your taxes, a tax clearance.
CLARKSON: Okay.
AGUINALDO: It's a record.
JACKSON: So, are we all clear on Joe's change, yeah? Related to prior use.
CLARKSON: I think so. I'd just like to be, basically add to the prior use that instead of may,
they shall include all of these things and also property tax records and also the one thing from the
denial, police reports or verified neighbor complaints. So, if they've been operating, but they've
been getting a lot of complaints about their operation, even if they've been paying their taxes,
they can still be denied, and not only have to have had previously operated legally but without
complaint. Now, I don't know if Amy's going to advise the Council that that's legal or not but I
think we should give them a piece of our mind.
AGUINALDO: Yeah, do `em right.
JACKSON: And, so, Joe, you do not want to move that (f)(2)(A) up to Prior Use section. So,
you don't want any verification that the structure that the short-term vacation rental is in has met
like Building Code requirements and has their permits before issuing that initial certificate?
CLARKSON: I don't see where that's in (f)(2)(A).
JACKSON: It's on page 4, (f)(2)(A). It says renewal may be denied if the Director verifies any
of the following. The applicant has violated provisions of this section or other pertinent laws
like for example the Building Code.
CLARKSON: But that's not in there.
JACKSON: That's other pertinent laws.
CLARKSON: Oh, okay. Sure, add that in.
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JACKSON: Okay. So, you want (A) and (B), I'm sorry (A) and (D) added to the Prior Use
section.
CLARKSON: Correct, because obviously the reachable person is irrelevant because this is past
use, tax payments delinquency is going to already be covered in the tax filings submitted, and so,
yes, (A) and (D) should be added to added to Prior Use along with property tax.
JACKSON: Okay.
CLARKSON: We're going to lose a quorum in 13 minutes, so I would like to get an action for
motion on this. I don't know what we'll do about our next item on the agenda.
REPLOGLE: So you want a favorable
CLARKSON: Anything. Somebody please make a motion.
HALL: You have to use the microphone.
REPLOGLE: I move for a favorable recommendation [be] forwarded to the County Council on
Bill No. 108, Draft 4 based on the Planning Director's recommendation as well as
recommendations suggested by the Windward Planning Commission, suggested revisions shall,
which shall be adopted.
AGUINALDO: I second.
CLARKSON: Any further discussion? Maija, would you call the vote, please?
JACKSON: Yes. Commissioner Replogle?
REPLOGLE: Aye.
JACKSON: Commissioner Aguinaldo?
AGUINALDO: Aye.
JACKSON: Commissioner Raffipiy?
RAFFIPIY: Aye.
JACKSON: And Chair Clarkson.
CLARKSON: Aye.
JACKSON: Okay, the motion carries four, zero.
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YEE: Quickly, I just want to thank the Commissioners on this and Maija who put in an immense
amount of time. The Council had like over a year to mull these issues over through many
meetings, and you just did it within hours so I appreciate your focus on that. Thank you.
The discussion ended at 3:18 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Sarah Y. Hata-Finley, Secretary
Windward Planning Commission
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