HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN CHARTER 2018-10-12 (2018-2020)CALL TO
ORDER:
ROLL CALL:
Present:
Absent:
Also Present:
STATEMENTS
FROM THE
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS:
Larry Ford:
Hawaii County Charter Commission
4th Session
Council Chambers, Hawai`i County Building
25 Aupuni Street, Ste. 1401
Hilo, Hawai`i
October 12, 2018
The regular meeting of the Hawaii County Charter Commission was called to
order at 1:31 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Mr. Douglass Shipman
Adams, Chair.
Mr. Douglass Shipman Adams, Chair
Ms. Jennifer Zelko-Schlueter, Vice Chair
Mr. William Carthage Bergin, Commissioner
Ms. Michelle Galimba, Commissioner
Mr. Paul K. Hamano, Commissioner
Mr. Kevin D. Hopkins, Commissioner
Ms. Sarah H. Rice, Commissioner
Mr. Christopher John Imiloa Roehrig, Commissioner
Ms. Marcia A. K. Saquing, Commissioner
Ms. Donna Mae Springer, Commissioner
Ms. Bobby Jean Todd, Commissioner
Mr. Craig Masuda, for J Yoshimoto, Commission Attorney
Mr. Jon Henricks, Commission Analyst
Ms. Shannon Magnuson, Commission Secretary
Mr. Scott Ruedy, Dep. Executive Assistant to Council Chair (Kona Courtesy Site)
(Note: Due to technical difficulties, a portion of the transcript for this
meeting is not available. Those portions will be included in summary form.)
The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
The Chair called Larry Ford to testify.
(Note: Due to technical difficulties, Mr. Ford's testimony is unavailable for
transcription.). Mr. Ford testified in opposition of Communication No. 3.1.1
Comm. No. 3.1.1, in opposition.
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
Brenda Ford:
BRENDA FORD:
The Chair called Brenda Ford, who made the following statement:
(Note: A portion of Ms. Ford's testimony is unavailable.)
Comm. No. 3.1.1, in opposition.
MS. FORD:... We have a constitution and it's written for the will of the
People, to protect the people and the resources. That was a very deliberate
placement in the Charter for that reason, to prevent Council Members and or
administrations from trying to remove the money that we need to purchase our
treasured lands. We've already purchased 14 properties and 166 are on the books.
We may not be able to buy them all and we may not be able to buy them all now,
but there's no problem.
By passing any of the changes that this charter commission is even considering
defeats the will of the people. We've been on the ballot three times. The public
has made it extremely clear that they want this in the form that it exists in today.
During Mr. Kenoi's administration he illegally stopped funding this PONC
(Public Access, Open Space and Natural Resources) Fund and the Maintenance
Fund. And the reason I say illegal is his decision was in violation of the Charter.
The only way we can force County employees to do their job is to sue them, and it
takes years to get it through the court and then they say, "Oh yes, you're correct,
however it's moot because that person is out of office." It goes on all the time.
We had a terrible problem getting this on the ballot the first time. Fortunately,
Council did pass it. They're using the excuse that we need more police officers.
We always needed more police officers. And in the good times we don't get them
anyway especially in West Hawai`i. Everything seems to be over in Hilo.
We need two percent because we have the biggest land mass, we have the most
treasured lands, and we have 200,000 -plus people on this island. If you compare
us to Honolulu that has almost a million people, theirs is only a half percent, but
you've got a million people—five times as many people putting that into their
fund. So they have a better advantage. The other counties are much smaller. If
we don't buy these land parcels now they won't be available in the future. And
the very thought over turning over the administration to a private person makes
me want to just scream, because you can look at Hokulia, all the lots instead of
one on that County parcel of land. All the illegalities that they committed and
they still closed off the trail. And ultimately they actually moved the Ala Loa
Trail. That's what happens when you have a private entity owning the public
lands.
We need to be able to get to our mountains, to our sea shores, our shoreline and
not have the public stopped by private ownership.
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There's no good reason to change anything in this PONC or its maintenance fund.
And so I'm asking you to please leave it alone so we don't have to go through the
nightmare of having to spend tens of thousands of dollars to alert the public that
you are once again trying to take the PONC fund and the maintenance fund, or
strip it down to the point that it's not functional. We have 166 properties still left
to go through. The commission cannot buy them all at once and we need all the
PONC funds that we've got to continue forward in the future. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you, Ms. Ford. At this time are there any other testifiers
in Kona?
MR. RUEDY: That completes our testifiers.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. We have testifiers here in Hilo. I would ask our
first two testifiers to please come to the table and microphones. The first would
be Harold Dow and the second would be Dwight Vicente.
Harold Dow: Comm. 7.2, in opposition.
The Chair then called Harold Dow, who made the following statement:
HAROLD DOW: MR. DOW: I'm here today representing myself but 1 need to disclose that I'm a
member of the Salary Commission. There's a proposed change in the Charter that
affects the operation of the Salary Commission and I'm opposed to that change.
It adds time and expense to the business of the commission. I think that the billed
proposal came about as a reaction to an extraordinary action that was taken under
extraordinary circumstance. The Salary Commission is composed of nine
members. One member from each Council district. I'm from district five. It
takes five members to constitute a quorum. It takes five affirmative votes to enact
any business. And for four years the Salary Commission did not meet a quorum
and was unable to conduct business. Not until September this year did that
commission reach a quorum. At that time we were four years behind in doing our
business.
I carne into the commission in September of last year. It was sort of a rapid and
steep learning curve for me. But what I found out very quickly was that the
compensation for County employees is driven from the bottom up. It starts with
collective bargaining and they've been very effective in getting annual raises for
their employees. Those raises have compounded to two and a half to seven
percent per year. So if you take the upper range of that, the compounding in four
years was 30 percent. The end result was that our elected County officials and
appointed officials had not had a raise—some of them in four years and some of
them in almost ten years. They had many departments who had subordinates that
were making more than the department heads. So with that data in front us we
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felt like we had to make some changes. We had to take some extraordinary
action—
CHR. ADAMS: Please summarize, Mr. Dow.
MR. DOW: Pardon?
CHR. ADAMS: Please summarize.
MR. DOW: Okay. So I don't think that the County Council or the public was
fully aware of the action that was required for the Salary Commission to take and
I think that if we keep Salary Commissions staffed properly and meeting regularly
no extraordinary action will be required in the future. And I think that the bill
that's proposed to change the Charter is unnecessary. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much. I would ask Kanani Aton to come up and
you'll be the third speaker. At this time we have Dwight Vicente. Hopefully I
said that close to correct.
Dwight Vicente: Comm. No. 5.2, comment; Comm No. 7.5, comment; Comm. No. 9(d), comment;
And COMM. No. 1.8 comment.
The Chair then called Dwight Vicente, who made the following statement:
DWIGHT MR. VICENTE: You got it right.
VICENTE:
CHR. ADAMS: You are speaking on four agenda items?
MR. VICENTE: Yes.
CHR. ADAMS: So you're aware that it's three minutes per agenda item?
MR. VICENTE: Yes.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you.
MR. VICENTE: Hello, my name is Dwight Vicente. I'm representing the
Hawaiian Kingdom. Communication 5.2, Administrative Rules of the Police
Department, or Police Commission I should say. The Police Department is
actually illegal military due to the fact that the U.S. Constitution is a law that is
said to be in control here. All military powers rest with Congress under Article 1,
Section 8. You cannot create a commission to side-step the prohibition under the
U.S. Constitution. But remember, this is the Hawaiian Kingdom now. So that's a
conflict going on right there in itself. And they're arming themselves under
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Title 10, Chapter 134. Here again, Title 10, Chapter 134 is limited to the Army,
the Navy, and the state militia and everybody is armed that way. The gun control
law, under Title 10, Chapter 134, is unconstitutional.
Moving onto Communication 7.5. The Planning Commission, they're based on
falsehood, based on the lands are either crown or government lands. So they
usually say either corporation or individual is the owner of the land. In this
kingdom, individuals and corporations do not own crown or government lands.
So there's a falsehood there. And all the Planning Commission is doing is -----
they're doing the land speculations under the Northwest Ordinance of 1787.
That's Indian land in the Ohio River Valley. It was applied to this kingdom with
the 1875 Reciprocity Treaty which King Kalakaua's American cabinet had used a
seal in D.C. to place his kingdom under the Northwest Ordinance, not through an
amendment but through an illegal treaty that placed his kingdom under the
Northwest Ordinance. There's no amendment. The Constitution has never been
changed.
Okay, Communication 9, the Planning Director, Department of Planning. The use
of HUD (Department of Housing and Urban Development) to develop these lands
is another thing. It's based on land speculation. The kingdom is not designed to
land speculation because there's native tenant rights involved, and the land always
belongs to the kingdom. You cannot take the land out of its inventory. So these
lands, at no point and time were they lands that belonged to the United States,
lands that belonged to the provisional or republic, or to the territory, and even the
State of Hawai`i today. You have to remember in the Admission Act it says
1.8 million acres of lands called Hawaiian Horne Lands—which was created in
1921 and it's based on again, here again, the Northwest Ordinance—the blood
quantum to the Hawaiian Hornes Commission Act is based on, I think it's
Article 2 of the Northwest Ordinance, the 50 percent.
And if you don't know the history of the Northwest Ordinance, it dates back to
the revolutionary war. The Continental Congress promised a Continental Anny.
Indian lands in Ohio River Valley, they would be paid that way. The Continental
Array was make believe; it had no sovereignty. And the army was another make
believe. The soldiers were just individuals fighting for something that they could
not actually achieve because they were Europeans.
So when you look at how they went about it, it's all illegal. So the land
planning—and they keep putting general public in there and they keep forgetting
that there's native rights involved. That is left out, and native rights are totally
different. And another problem that we've got with the general public is the
treaties all ended in 1987. The only treaty that was continued was the Reciprocity
Treaty by the U.S. Congress and that was continued for a purpose and that was an
illegal treaty to begin with. But why did they keep it going? Because they
wanted to keep control of this place under the Northwest Ordinance.
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CHR. ADAMS: Sir, you've reached three minutes on this agenda item.
MR. VICENTE: Okay, Communication 1.8. The problem I see now is Jen
Ruggles. Corporation Counsel cannot give legal advice to her and there's a
conflict of interest. But this is dealing with international law. And apparently the
Corporation Counsel has no standing in that. They should get an opinion from the
U.S. Attorney.
Not to mention there's other conflicts. As I stated earlier there's one that the
Reciprocity Treaty of 1875; the removal of the Queen in 1893, January 17; and
the imposition of the American citizens in the kingdom's government. That's like
Mr. Putin and his KGB being part of Donald Trump's cabinet. It's illegal now,
and it's illegal then. It doesn't matter. So it's all questionable what was going on.
And in fact when you look back after the Reciprocity Treaty of 1875, you're
going to see a U.S. citizen here placed demands on the Hawaiian Kingdom.
The Homestead Program in 1894, arming themselves, forcing King Kalakaua into
a constitution giving themselves, the U.S. citizens here the right to vote. And they
kept grabbing everything, all the rights that was secured in the Northwest
Ordinance is applied to this kingdom, and that's unconstitutional. So that needs
to be looked into.
With this I'll end with the Queen's protest of January 17, 1893. It has yet to go to
the U.S. Supreme Court, Article 3, Section 2, Clause 2. Original but limited
jurisdiction only U.S. Minister Stevens' illegal acts. And the other one is the
constitutionality of 1875 Reciprocity Treaty. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you, Sir. Ms. Aton.
Kanani Aton: Comm. No. 7.4, in opposition.
The Chair then called Kanani Aton, who made the following statement (see
Comm. 7.4.2):
KANANI ATON: MS. ATON: Aloha kakou. Hi, everybody. So this is a testimony in respectful
opposition to Communication number 7.4 from Environmental Management
Commission Chair Bennett that seeks to amend the County Charter by proposing
to dismantle Water Supply and create a Department of Water Sustainability. As a
long-standing DWS (Department of Water Supply) customer for over 30 years
when I first moved here into the dorms at Hale Kauanoe at UH Hilo, I testify that
my water has always been and continues to be regular, high quality, and reliable.
All domestic water needs for myself and my family have been met without
interruption even in times of area power outages in my area of residence, because
I know that water supply plans for and is mindful of its responsibility to me, their
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customer. For their careful vigilance I am grateful because water service is
critical to my daily hygienic cooking and most of all my personal need to drink
water straight from the tap unfiltered.
From 2007 to 2016 I want you to know that 1 served DWS as Administration
Division as Public Information and Education Specialist. In that time my lay
person understanding of Water Supply grew to a higher level of awareness
because I needed to work closely with my coworkers from all areas of the
department to field unique inquiries from the media, customers and concerned
citizens, and associations. 1 learned a lot while working with my administrators
and my coworkers and 1 just respectfully support the work that needed to happen
that didn't quite fit the usual ordinary work flow of department. These
communications carne from County, State and Federal partners, from other
commissioners, from auditors, and from legislators.
Often times the concern was environmental governance and planning that was
either needed information from the 20 -year water master plan, or needed
custom -fit information. For example, the Ocean View water system was
successfully built at the request of Mayor Kim's previous administration in order
to mitigate the potential of thousands becoming isolated without drinking water
access in the event of an emergency. That was not included in our 20 -year water
master plan. Another example was working for many years to respond to
National Park Service's Keauhou Aquifer Designation application. In a way that
supported and listened to as many community stakeholders as possible, the State
Commission on Water Resource Management ultimately decided not to approve
the application because area water use continues well within the sustainable yield.
And as result of that application to designate, excellent custom fit outcomes were
achieved for all sides of the issue with closer monitoring and reporting that
ultimately empowers the community to steward their water sources in a way that's
more sustainable and comprehensive.
So for sustainable water resource management a commission already exists.
Dismantling the Department of Water Supply would be unwise and irresponsible.
There is an established long record of upholding its mission and maintaining a
high quality service of its most precious resource to residents of Hawai`i. Thank
you very much.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Do we have any other testimony? I understand we
have testimony from Kona.
MR. RUEDY: Yes we have Brenda Ford here to speak on Communication 1.8 as
well as Communication 7.2. State your name for the record.
Brenda Ford: Comm. No. 1.8, comment; and Comm. No. 7.2, comment.
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The Chair then recalled Brenda Ford, who made the following statement:
BRENDA FORD: MS. FORD: I'm Brenda Ford. I would like to start on Communication 1.8, the
Conflict of Interest. For many years before I was a Council Member and for the
all eight years that I was on the Council I advocated for the Council to have their
own legal counsel. Their own attorney, capable of defending them or filing
lawsuits if necessary. That was objected to strongly by all administrations and at
that time Lincoln Ashida, who was the Corporation Counsel. In every instance
the Corporation Counsel reports to the Mayor. If they don't do what the Mayor
wants Corporation Counsel can be fired. That is not true of the Legislative
Branch. We cannot fire—when I'm referring to we, I mean when I was on the
Council—we can't fire the Corporation Counsel or any of the deputies.
Therefore, we are at a disadvantage as the Legislative Branch. We need to have
our own legal counsel in the Legislative Branch separate from Corporation
Counsel.
Corporation Counsel represents a body politic of the County. They do not
represent to Council. And they give misinformation. How many years did I
complain because they kept defining the word "shall" as discretionary. Three
judges ruled that "shall" means mandatory, and finally it went to the State
Supreme Court and they said in all cases "shall" is mandatory. But the
Corporation Counsel kept misinterpreting it deliberately in order to get the
administration what they wanted instead of what the people wanted. So please do
not do anything except get a separate attorney for the Legislative Branch. We've
needed it for decades.
You will hear people actually say that we are co -equal branches of government.
But that's not true because the Council has no control over the Corporation
Counsel's Office at all. Therefore, we are not equal we are subordinate. It's not
right. Honolulu has four attorneys on the payroll of their legislative branch for
just this reason. I brought many pieces of legislation forward to get an attorney
for us and the legislative analyst, I think the position is called, does not qualify
because they cannot file suit for the Council if they need to.
Moving on to Communication 3.1.1, the Salary Commission. I'm sorry I gave
you the wrong number. 7.2, the Salary Commission. I have to take tremendous
exception to the existence of a Salary Commission. A couple years ago they've
increased raises for the administration and the County Council approximately
30 percent across the board and they have all kinds of reasons for doing it. The
worst one I heard was "Oh, well we had to match Honolulu or Kauai or Maui,
or whatever." We are not those islands. This was an abomination to raise the
salaries of appointed and elected officials to that degree. If they'd given there just
maybe three, four, or five percent it would've been reasonable. And they're
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planning to do it again. Not that much, but still do it. We would save a lot of
money and we can't get people to get a quorum in Salary Commission.
The County Council is the appropriate group to handle raises for the
administration. They are directly elected by the people. The salary
commissioners are appointed by a Mayor. This is another instance of bad
governance. So my suggestion is don't worry about the Salary Commission, just
get rid of it and let the County Council do its job and handle the pay raises other
than for collective bargaining. Thank you very much.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Do we have any other public statements? Seeing
none, let us move on our agenda into the Approval of Minutes.
APPROVAL OF The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
MINUTES: Approval of Minutes.
CHR. ADAMS: I'll entertain a motion to approve the regular meeting minutes of
September 14, 2018.
Motion to Approve: Ms. Galimba moved to approve the Minutes of
September 14, 2018. Seconded by Ms. Saquing.
CHR. ADAMS: Are there any corrections or any discussion regarding the
motion? Seeing none, all in favor of the motion please signify by saying "aye."
Vote on Minutes: The motion to approve the minutes of September 14, 2018
(Approved) was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer,
Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 10.
Noes: Commissioner Todd — 1.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: At this time I'd like to modify our order of business and move directly from this
particular point to New Business, Communication No. 9.
Change Order
of Business:
Comm. No. 9:
As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the
following items were taken out of order:
Mayor; Department and Agency Heads -- Overview of operations;
Impact of County Charter on Operations; Any Proposals to Amend Charter;
Discussion
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a. The Honorable Mayor Harry Kim
b. Department of Liquor Control — Director Gerald Takase
c. Department of Parks and Recreation — Director Roxcie Waltjen
d. Department of Planning Deputy Director Daryn Arai
e. Department of Public Works — Director Allan Simeon
E Department of Water Supply — Manager -Chief Engineer Keith Okamoto
g. Hawai`i Police Department — Deputy Police Chief Kenneth Bugado, Jr.
h. Mass Transit Agency — Mass Transit Administrator Maria Aranguiz
CHR. ADAMS: We'll have our speakers, starting with our Mayor Harry Kim. I
appreciate all of the agency heads being here, and of course the Mayor being here
as well. I also remind our Commissioners that we'd like the presentations
conclude individually before we begin to ask the questions at the end of each
individual presentation. Mr. Mayor.
a. The Honorable Mayor Harry Kim
(Note: At this time, Mayor Harry Kim came forward to address the
members of the Commission.)
MAYOR KIM: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am glad we're paying you guys a
lot of money to sit there. So thank you for your work. Our departments will
make known specifically and elaborate on our main issues of concern. I'll just
touch on the surface of those things that was covered by Ms. Ford; and Mr. Ford
as far as PONCs. I want to make it clear that this administration have never been
against the principal of PONCs. What we are talking about is adjustment of
review of that. A two percent off the top indicates because that's the only part of
the County budget that is set aside for a particular purpose. I don't care what else
it is. What does that equate to annually? Approximately $6 million a year now. I
would like a review of that program to back to the intent of it to act as seed
money.
I think you will see that this administration has always supported the protection of
special lands. At the time I did write that we were against the PONCs because we
felt that we could do that equally or maybe even better by presenting to the
County Council for bonding of certain lands that need to be purchased. And that
way you would have a total community involvement and an open view of what
was being presented. There are various things I think that you could consider in
regards to the two percent is money is taken out of a very tight budget, especially
over these past couple years. I need a review of how much of that is reasonable in
caparison with any place else. I proudly say in comparison with any place else.
Or modification in regards to can we use part of the money for the maintenance of
parks.
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Please understand our position is not to take away from the principal of protecting
special lands. We know that is very important. Outside of the lower rate --let's
take a simple example that the present Charter says that we cannot ever sell it. I
cannot ever use that two percent funds for any of the maintenance of any park or
any lands purchase. It presents a simple problem sometimes if the land should be
given or sold to the State or National Park or whatever reason, that the Charter
prevents any of that for even consideration. I'm asking for review of that to see
what is best for the public.
The other thing I want to touch very lightly on is in regards to the proposal of the
Department of Water Supply. I've always, and I mean always from way back as
far as I can understand government, the Department of Water Supply is our most
precious resource. And that resource must be protected from as much as possible
the control of a single factor like the Mayor. I push for and I will always support
it be under the people's commission. Even that is questioned by some, "Well you
appoint the commissioners." This is correct. But the Council—we just nominate,
the Council approves or disapproves. I am for a form of government that
disseminate the power as much as possible where it is best. The Department of
Water Supply belongs under the control, supervision of the people through the
commissions system. The Mayor's responsibility and our authority is in regards
to general supervision and budget review. Nothing more than that, and I think it
is in the best interest of public that we keep it there.
In regards to the last one of the appointees, I am opposed to where the appointees
of cabinet are to be reviewed every two years. I think all of you and I see several
of you have administrative experience, and you can see how much of a problem
that would pose to appointed people where the continuation of them would be
under the authority someone else besides the Mayor. Even the dismissal of it
would be difficult. So I ask you to please look at that. In all of it, I think, has one
common denominator and that is a government that is what we consider is best for
the people, not for the Mayor. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Mayor, if I may ask the Commissioners if they have any
questions? Briefly, in the advisory commissions you have the ability to appoint
advisory commissions in the Charter, and in the Charter it talks about the fact that
the departments will generally fund from their own funds these advisory
commissions. There has been expressed to us some concern about those. Do you
have any comment about that?
MAYOR KIM: There's a commission that I am thinking about now in regards to
funding. What we do on staff is try to appoint someone to—especially of
secretarial staff and any other expense. Any review of that that this commission
feels is best for the members who execute their duties will not be fought. Funding
in regards to where the sources come from basically, you know, it comes from the
very same source. It's a matter of process of where it --what department it comes
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from. So I have no real strong opposition on that because I feel that is the
people's money, it needs to be funded, and we need to establish a system that
funds them to the amount that they need, not want, but need to do their job.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: Mr. Mayor, thank you for coming and talking to us today.
Regarding your comment about being opposed to a review every two years of
cabinet members, I can understand your concern about that. But obviously if
there wasn't a perceived problem, I'm not saying a real problem, if there wasn't a
perceived problem with cabinet—not, I won't say—what's a good word to put it?
Not getting along with Council very well, I don't think it would've come up.
What is your—if they don't do that, what do you suggest is the alternative such
that we can what is the process for Council to have more input in towards
cabinet members who, let's just say, are doing their own thing?
MAYOR KIM: Excuse me for laughing. I'm not laughing at you. I'm just
laughing at doing their own thing. They'd be fired. That's not putting it lightly. I
mean the cabinet appointed by the Mayor confirmed, most positions, by the
Council. And their qualifications are wide open. And sometimes it's been very
difficult to even find someone to fill a position because of different personal
reasons. In regards to that, once that person has been nominated and confirmed
by the County Council the supervision and authority of that person should be with
that person, which is the Mayor.
There will always be, always be, I don't care what the system is, the cabinet
member goes to the Council many, many times for positions, requests for funds,
et cetera. And there will be disagreements, always will there be disagreements. I
accept that and I think the cabinet accepts that and the Council accepts that. What
I am talking about is, not that that will happen or not happen, I am saying is a
person who is an employee of the County Government under the supervision of
the Mayor to carry out the Mayor's so-called policies and programs. I ask that
they not be split into a situation where you put a person in different elements of
supervisions simply because someone else is going to evaluate that person. There
is always evaluation on what is best in doing the job for the job's sake, not on
particular types of issues. And I think if you review just my one and a half years
here, sir, you will see that by simply the number of people that have changed
positions in the cabinet.
I cannot think of any single situation of a government where an employee is to be
reviewed and evaluated by not the direct supervisor, or by another government
body. I ask that you seriously look at that, and I ask only one question which I
can openly say. Everything that is presented by this administration and the
members of this administration will truly be for one agenda only—what we feel is
best to run the County Government of Hawai`i.
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CHR. ADAMS: Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
MAYOR KIM: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: I would invite up Director Takase of Department of Liquor
Control. Director, please state your name for the record.
b. Department of Liquor Control – Director Gerald Takase
(Note: At this time, Liquor Control Director Gerald Takase came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. TAKASE: I am Gerald Takase, Director of Liquor Control for the County of
Hawaii. Good afternoon, Members. I think I submitted written testimony. We
don't really have any requests of the Charter Commission but if there are any
questions by the Charter Commission we stand ready to answer those.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your presentation. Do we have any questions
from the commissioners? A couple.
MR. TAKASE: Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: In Section 7-3.4 which is Director of Department of Liquor
Control, one of the things that we've been looking at as we've been looking at the
variety of departments is are the qualifications that are listed the appropriate ones?
And I know noticed that here there are no qualifications listed. Is that an
appropriate—do you think that that's something we should be looking at? What's
your comments about that?
MR. TAKASE: You know well I will cover my qualifications. I was previously
the Corporation Counsel's Assistant and Legal Advisor to the department for
probably 20 to 25 years prior to assuming the directorship. If I looked at my
predecessor, it was Ms. Janice Pakele, she actually was a previous Chairman of
the Liquor Commission and she took the position. I believe her background at
that time was that she was a school teacher and she served in that position for
probably—as a director for I think, I want to say 28 years, and I think she did a
very good job. When I look at the directors on the other islands right now, the
Honolulu Director currently and I think their past three or four directors have all
been attorneys. On Kauai, Gerald Rapozo is a Liquor Investigator who got
promoted. The same on Maui, Glen Mukai was the investigator. So it's hard for
me to say that, you know, you have to have "x" qualifications. I think if you, if
you do have some experience in the area I think that helps.
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But I couldn't quantify saying, you know, you need five years in the area to do it
well. Nationwide I think we see more and more attorneys are assuming the
directorships of departments just because of the nature of the beast. It deals with
a lot of regulations and there's a lot of out of work attorneys I guess. So there
does seem to be a lot of attorneys but I wouldn't say that you need to be an
attorney to be in charge of the position. So as far as qualifications, I don't know
that we need to set forth any. I think when we were selected by the Liquor
Commission they kind of go forth and look at past experience, administrative
experience, those types of things. I think supervision and I think they did a
good job in trying to set forth, you know, maybe not written qualifications but
what their criteria were when looking for a director.
CHR. ADAMS: Seeing no other questions, thank you so much for being here
today and we appreciate your testimony.
MR. TAKASE: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: I would ask, Director Waltjen from Department of Parks and
Recreation. I see Director Waltjen. She is very tall. Please state your name for
the record.
c. Department of Parks and Recreation — Director Roxcie Waltjen
(Note: At this time, Deputy Parks and Recreation Director Maurice
Messina came forward to address the members of the Commission.)
MR. MESSINA: I am not Director Waltjen. I am Maurice Messina, Deputy
Director of Parks and Recreation. Roxcie wanted to apologize for not being able
to be here today, and she also wanted me to pass along the thanks to the
cormnission for everything that you guys are doing. She really appreciates that.
Just want to start off with a brief overview of the Department of Parks and
Recreation. We currently manage 327 facilities. We have over 466 employees.
Over the last 12 months we filled 101 positions, and we currently have 16 open
positions that we're looking to fill. Our facilities include beach parks, community
parks, camping areas, senior centers, gyms, ball fields, pools, the Hilo Dragstrip,
Hilo Municipal Golf Course, Pana`ewa Zoo and Equestrian Center, cemeteries,
and emergency evacuation centers, which we got a quick learning curve on that
over the lava.
Review of our attendance logs over the last 12 months showed that we have had
over four million people take advantage of the many recreational facilities and the
activities that we offer. Our facilities contain some of the best and most diverse
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
collection of natural, cultural, and recreational assets to be found in Hawai`i.
P&R (Parks and Recreation) staff work very hard every single day to protect and
care for these assets. We create opportunities for the residents and visitors of
Hawaii to enjoy everything that we have to offer.
As far as our comments on the Charter Commission itself, we would just ask that
when you review the PONC portion that you really look at adding the
maintenance as part of something that we can use in the PONC. I've personally
gone to numerous sites where these individuals are working hard on the facilities
and having some type of maintenance fund for them would make a big difference.
They are a bare bones operations. I think that it would be a benefit to the public
and to the County if we were able to have part of that PONC fund used for
maintenance. That's it.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you, Mr. Messina. Yes, Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: On the PONC fund for maintenance I thought .25 of the amount of
the property tax allocated was for maintenance. I don't understand. Are you
talking about maintenance for other parks?
MR. MESSINA: No, Ma'am. I am asking for a little bit more.
MS. RICE: Oh, okay.
MR. MESSINA: Yes, yes.
MS. RICE: So increasing that funding.
MR. MESSINA: Yes.
MS. RICE: But for those purchases—
MR. MESSINA: The PONC lands, yes.
MS. RICE: Okay, thank you.
MR. MESSINA: You're welcome.
CHR. ADAMS: Any other questions? Just briefly I just want to verify. So we
have here in Section 6-3.2 where it talks about the director. The lone qualification
listed is the minimum of five years of experience in administrative capacity—that
makes sense from the department's perspective?
MR. MESSINA: On that perspective I would just go back to Director Waltjen's
qualifications. Even though that is the one qualification that is listed she has
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
worked her way up from a Recreational Technician to the Director of Parks and
Recreation. It took her 30 years to do that and now she's the Director of Parks
and Recreation. Her qualifications go before the Mayor when he brings her to the
County Council and the County Council can review all her qualifications. I think
that the way it is you can't quantify what it would take to run a department like
Parks and Recreation. The five years of administrative management and
everything that someone like Director Waltjen has done in her 30 years when she
went in front of the County Council. I believe that the way it is right now and
having the Council and the Mayor look at her qualifications is the right way to go.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Seeing no other questions, thank you so much for
being here. At this time, I'd like to ask the Department of Public Works, Director
Simeon. Thanks for being here, please state your name for the record.
e. Department of Public Works — Director Allan Simeon
(Note: At this time, Public Works Director Allan Simeon carne forward to
address the members of the Commission. Mr. Simeon provided a
PowerPoint presentation to the members and referred to information on
the screen. A copy of the presentation is made a part of the record. See
Charter Commission Communication No. 9.3.)
MR. SIMEON: Allan Simeon, Director of Public Works. First of all, I would
like to thank you all for letting me share with you what we do with Public Works
and the service you are doing here, helping us. Secondly, I would like to
acknowledge my Deputy Director, Merrick Nishimoto.
So the Department of Public Works, I would like to share that we have about 413
positions. Later on I will let you know how many divisions we have. But out of
that total positions, there are 59 vacancies. With those vacancies, there are 28
unfunded positions.
We operate on an annual budget of $61 million, which is broken down to about
$18.6 million for General Fund and also $42 million for Highway Fund, and
.2 million for Beautification Fund. Our department consists of primarily six
divisions. One is Administration, Building Division, Automotive Division,
Engineering Division, Highway Maintenance Division, and Traffic Division. We
all work together with these divisions, and our mission statement is basically, "To
work together as one to improve the quality of service for the health and safety of
our Big Island `ohana." We are trying our best to uphold that mission.
First is the Administration Division, so basically the Administration Division is a
backbone, so it holds everybody together. We do community outreach and
information with the public. They do support for clerical and for the department
coordination including fiscal, human resources, and above those, including to
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
those, you may be surprised that we do public potable water spigot management.
That is also within our tasks.
Second is our Automotive Division. Their role is so important. Maybe not in the
eyes of many, but without them, a lot of the departments and divisions won't be
able to do their tasks. Because they're the ones who keep the automobiles in
shape and in service so other departments can do their jobs. They also make sure
that all those vehicles are fueled up properly and ready to go to work every day.
Third is Building Division. So Building Division has multi -prong duties. The
first one is administration and enforcement of Building, Electrical, Energy,
Plumbing, Sign and Outdoor Lighting Codes, to ensure construction is energy
efficient and to meet minimum standards to safeguard life, health, property, and
public welfare. Also we do janitorial service and landscape maintenance for
various County facilities island -wide. We also repair and maintain, including
carpentry, electrical, painting, plumbing, and contract services for various County
facilities island -wide. This is also in support of other departments, not just Public
Works. Of course we do parking control. One of the big task is basically capital
improvement projects. A lot of the building improvements similar to the West
Hawai`i Prosecuting Attorney's that's going on now, that's one of the examples
that we take care.
Engineering Division is the next one. The Engineering Division is tasked with
design, construction, inspection, of CIP (Capital Irnprovement Projects) projects
that we do with the State and Feds. They also enforce Code regulation and
compliance with four different section of the Hawaii County Code. They do
flood control projects and bridges. They're charged with inspection and
maintenance of those.
One of our high performing divisions is Highway Maintenance Division. So on
top of being responsible to repair and maintain over 970 miles of roadways,
whether it be pothole repair or resurfacing, they also do roadsides, sidewalks,
guardrails, or as supple as a task of grass cutting and tree trimming. They also
maintain over 2,100 drywells and culverts. We also take care of roads -in -limbo,
flood channels, and in coordination with our Bridge Section in the Engineering
Division, they maintain the bridges and they do training. And the best of all is
basically emergency response.
From the lower east riftzone eruption in lower Puna, and also following Hurricane
Lane thereafter, our employees of the Highway Maintenance Division who are
headed by Neil Azevedo, along with the whole DPW team, played a critical
support role with Civil Defense in emergency first responder operations. For the
lava event, they assisted with evacuation and manning and securing roadblocks;
prepared and maintained evacuation routes; investigated, identified and monitored
reports of cracks in the road due to earthquakes and fissure activity. They also
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
manned a 24/7 watch in the field at assigned roadblocks. Basically, they are
ready when called upon when an evacuation has to be done, whether 12:00
o'clock in the morning or 12:00 o'clock at noon, they're ready there to do the
tasks. They also provide to other agencies, whether it be local, County, State or
Federal in this effort. Also, they assisted with operations at the disaster recovery
center.
Lastly but not least is our Traffic Division, who is charged with roadway striping
and safety markings, and also all the installation, operation, and maintenance of
street lights, traffic signals, island -wide. We also do traffic safety education, and
also (inaudible) installation, and other things that they do.
The next three items that I want to share with you is basically some of the work
that we do. Ali`i Drive culvert replacement, which is in Kona. So we are on track
to be able to bid this project. It's a long overdue project to replace a functionally
obsolete Ali`i Drive culvert with a new bridge. This has been a work in the
making for many years and I'm glad to say that by the end of this year we hope to
be able to bid that out and hopefully we start construction some time before
summer next year and finish that sometime midyear of 2021.
The next project is the Mamalahoa Highway widening project that is going on
now from Mud Lane to Mana Road. This project includes widening of
Mamalahoa at 18 major intersections with left turn pockets and drainage
improvements. This started back in March and hope to finish in mid -2020.
And lastly, the West Hawai`i Civic Center Office of the Prosecuting Attorney.
We are hoping to be able to finish that project in mid -2019, next year. A lot of
this project is funded 89 percent by Federal Highways, with 20 percent matching
from the County.
As far as the County Charter for organization, Director Powers, Duties and
Functions, we don't have any proposal or recommendation to change. Again,
thank you on behalf of myself, Deputy Director Merrick Nishimoto, and our
400 -something employees. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much, Director. Do we have any questions
from the Commission? Just briefly, within the—it's very short given the amount
of work that you do and your size, it's a very short chapter that establishes.
Everything else is primarily in ordinance. You're good with that? You don't see
anything that's in ordinance that you would rather have in the Charter?
MR. SIMEON: Not at this point.
CHR. ADAMS: The other question has to do with the qualifications. It states
that the director should be a registered professional engineer. I just would ask the
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
question, is there in addition to the educational requirements that it indicates, are
there any legal requirements as a result? Liability that being a PE and a director
necessitates, does that come together or is it just simply a signifier of the ability to
accomplish the job?
MR. SIMEON: I believe having a background with a PE and a background in
engineering is important. The administrative requirements, being able to manage
the people is important. But yeah, for now. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you so much, Director. Appreciate that. This will come
as no surprise to the members of the Commission and the staff, but I screwed up,
and I skipped our Deputy Director of Planning. And I'm going to do it again. I
apologize. I understand that our Mayor would like to make a couple of
comments, and if you're okay with that Director Arai, I'm going to allow the
Mayor to do that. Mr. Mayor.
(Note: At this time, Mayor Harry Kim carne forward to address the
members of the Commission.)
MAYOR KIM: Thank you for this second opportunity. The reason for that is,
sitting back there and listening to some of the comments, prior to speaking to you
the first time, I decided not to say certain things, then sitting back there, I thought
I should. Because I didn't want to make it like flaunting, or you and me, or those
things. First of all on the continent of the Corp. Counsel. That has been a
discussion issue for a long time: should the Corporation Counsel be in regards to
a separate person hired by the County Council, not a Corporation Counsel, but an
attorney to represent the County Council. I can say openly, and this is why I'm
saying it here, I've been your Mayor for almost 10 years now. I ask you to find
one single attorney that worked with me for 10 years that was ordered to carry a
certain position or represent only that position. All attorneys in the Corporation
Counsel are advised, "You are here to advise me. You are here to advise the
Council. You are not my attorney, you're the people's attorney." Ask any one of
them, and I guarantee that's what they were instructed to do.
Whether they have a private counsel or not is not totally of that, but don't judge it
because of a statement made that they do what the Mayor orders them to do. That
has never happened in regards to the past 10 years, my eight years prior and
nearly two years now. I don't want to make that sound strong, but I think it is
important because our mission here is very important like during lava flow or
anything else that the public you represent and I represent trusts us. And if you
will see the recommendations we are making, I truly believe it is what we as a
body perceive as what is best for this County government that is best for the
people. Nothing else is presented to them, and 1 ask to you call any department in
private and ask them if that is contrary to the instructions they received.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
I know that counsel thing is a very important thing for members of the County
Council, and if that has changed, so be it. But let it not be for the reason that they
are under the whim of the orders of the Mayor. I know they are there to advise
me of what is right by law or not right by law. Thank you very much.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. At this time, I'd ask our Deputy
Director of Planning please, to come forward.
d. Department of Planning – Deputy Director Daryn Arai
(Note: At this time, Deputy Planning Director Daryn Arai carne forward
to address the members of the Commission.)
CHR. ADAMS: Again, if you would state your name for the record. Thank you.
MR. ARAI: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. My
name is Daryn Arai, the Deputy Planning Director. Unfortunately, Michael Yee,
the Planning Director sends his regrets. He's currently attending a hearing in
Kona and wishes he could be here joining me.
Let me offer you just a for those of you who are not familiar with the Planning
Department, just a real brief overview of what we do. We're a department of
about 61 employees situated both in Hilo and in Kona. We advise the Mayor, the
County Council and the Windward and Leeward Planning Commission on all
planning and land use matters. That is prescribed by the County Charter.
Sounds simple, but you know, we do much more than that. We are comprised of
14 boards, commissions and committees, consisting of somewhere in the
neighborhood of I think close to 90 individuals like yourselves who volunteer,
and probably conduct somewhere close to that same number, about 85-90 public
meetings or hearings a year. That's a lot, and the whole purpose of that is in order
to effectively advise the Mayor, County Council, Windward Planning
Commission and all the boards and committees that we serve, it's incumbent on
us to reach out to the members of our community and the public that we serve as
well as all the agencies that will provide us with the information and resources
that we need in order to make the most informed decision and recommendation to
our decision makers.
So if you look at the qualifications of being a Planning Director, it's, you know,
engineer, architect, geographer, you know, sociologist. The reason for that is
because in order—Planning Department is charged under a statute to be the
central coordinating agency. I mean, the statute basically says each County shall
designate a central coordinating agency. Lucky for us, we were like tag you're it,
right.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
But then I can understand that because by working with the communities and
developing our General Plan, our Community Development Plans, which then
inform us on the proper land use policy decisions we need to make day in and day
out, we need to bring all of these resources, all of these disciplines, all of these
skillsets, into the process to help inform all of us in what is the proper land use
decisions that we need to make. It's difficult because sometimes you're
dealing—you know, Planning Department deals with everything from guiding
where roadways are built, where schools can be built, where subdivisions occur,
where our large commercial -resort development, all the way down to someone
complaining that a chicken is crowing all night long. So it shows you the range of
land use issue that we have to deal with. But at the same time, it also shows you
how ----I'm looking for the proper word—how deeply engrained land use decisions
affect our daily lives.
So anyway, that in a nutshell sort of what we do at Planning. We don't have any
specific or substantive changes to the County Charter. If anything, we are looking
at possible refinements, housekeeping measures. There are some transitional
language in the Charter for the Windward and Leeward Planning Commissions.
The transition occurred back in 2009, so no point in having it remain there. We
are looking at some other additional changes; but again, nothing really of
substance. If anything, it's more for operational efficiencies. But we do with to
have the opportunity to consult with our other partner agencies to make sure that
our suggestion doesn't adversely affect another department.
So anyway, I stand ready to answer any questions that you may have.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you so much. Do we have any questions? Actually, you
handled already the questions that I was going to ask. I would ask one thing that
wasn't on my initial list. There's many things that are third rail question, I guess.
You're aware that folks have let me make the comment this way, I was in the
Army. I'm used to complaining soldiers, right? It goes with the territory. So
you're aware that folks that come in and they're looking for permits will complain
about how long things take. Is there anything that we can do structurally that can
help with that problem or a like problem?
MR. ARAI: I'm trying to recall how I may—I'm not sure you're speaking to
building permits or just land use permits in general. I totally get it that the
process can be extremely lengthy. But maybe the best way I can respond is, there
are times when we can't un -ring the bell. Once you make a decision and it gets
put on the ground, it's difficult to scrape it off, right? Which is why the due
process, it can be cumbersome, but if it's good for the community, then it's worth
the invested time. I know that's probably not going to sit well with a lot of
people, but it is a due process. We do try to encourage people to work with
communities that they hope to develop with them to find alignment before they
approach the County. A lot of times when someone --a community is not aware
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
of something landing in their neighborhood, you know, they immediately go into
a defense mode, then it's just pure, you know, it's like antagonistic kinds of
reactions. So we try to avoid that, but at the same time we try to manage it.
That's part of where our skillset comes in. We try to identify and I have some
examples in mind which I don't have to go through here unless you ask for it, but
we have examples where we try to look at the issues and try to get the parties
together. Whether it's in mediation or other forms of discussion, and hopefully
we can find common ground because in the end that probably serves everyone the
best.
CHR. ADAMS: Right, and those would normally not be Charter level issues?
Right. Okay. Not seeing any additional questions at this time, thank you so
much. Appreciate it. At this time I'd like to ask Manager/Chief Engineer from
the Depaitalent of Water Supply.
f. Department of Water Supply – Manager -Chief Engineer Keith Okamoto
(Note: At this time, Water Supply Manager Keith Okumoto and Deputy
Manager Kawika Uehara came forward to address the members of the
Commission. Mr. Okumoto provided a PowerPoint presentation to the
members and referred to information on the screen. A copy of the
presentation is made a part of the record. See Charter Commission
Communication No. 9.1.)
CHR. ADAMS: And you have other folks with you, so if you could please
identify yourself for the record and also who else is here.
MR. OKUMOTO: Alright. Thank you, Chair Adams, Members ofthe
Commission. My name is Keith Okumoto, Manager/Chief Engineer, Department
of Water Supply. With me, I have our Deputy, Kawika Uehara, and—
MS. MELLON-LACEY: I'm Diane Mellon -Lacey, over at the Corporation
Counsel.
MR. OKUMOTO: She's our legal stuff, make sure I don't say anything I'm not
supposed to say. So I'm going to follow Gerald Takase's lead. Any questions?
Nah, I'm just kidding. He's actually my idol. I think he pulled a jedi mind trick
on your guys. But anyway, that doesn't work for me.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
So anyway, just want to start off that we do not have any proposed amendments
or revisions to the Charter. So that's our opening statement.
Thank you for the opportunity to kind of explain what we do at the department.
Basically we start off with our mission. Our mission is "To provide customers
with an adequate and continuous supply of safe drinking water in a financial
responsible manner, comply with all relevant standards, and assist and facilitate of
water systems in areas not currently served." Followed by our motto, which is,
"Water, our most precious resource – Ka Wai a Kane." I also want to
acknowledge Kanani. She was instrumental with coming up with that motto,
which is so—basically so on the money for us.
So if you look at our mission statement, the department is very focused on one
thing, which is providing safe drinking water. Safe drinking water in a financially
responsible manner. So some background. Back in 1949, the territorial
legislature created the Board of Water Supply. Prior to that, my understanding
was the funds were comingled with County general funds. The water
infrastructure on the island was in really bad shape basically. So following the
model in Honolulu, which established their own Board of Water Supply in 1929,
the Legislature passed an Act to create the Board of Water Supply on our island.
Since that time, for nearly 70 years, we've been operating as a semi -autonomous
department within the County.
We get asked what does semi -autonomous mean. So of course I had to Google
that up, right? So what I got basically, "Largely self-governing, within a larger
political or organizational entity." Or another definition: "Having a degree of,
but not complete self-government." And basically that is how we operate. We
are a County department, but basically we differ in the fact that our operating
funds is basically all from the revenues from our water bills. So we don't tap any
of the General Fund money. We don't have any access to those funds at all. It's
basically all from water sales.
So anyway, going back to some of the history, from what I understand, and I
wasn't quite around in 1949, but from what I understand, the water system was in
bad shape. So those first couple of years were really tough. Basically, we have
an easy job, Kawika and I, compared to the first manager of the department.
From what I understand, it was in such a disarray, they basically had to bite the
bullet and come up with new water rates to get the infrastructure where it needed
to be. So back in 1949, I believe that first public meeting for new water rates
drew over 1,000 people. Now this is back in 1949. You see all the public
meetings we have now. Can you imagine 1,000 people at a public meeting? So
that must have been quite a big deal basically, back then. So luckily, here we are
today.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
The department has 23 separate water system around the island. We man that,
operate and maintain that with about 160 staff. We service approximately 43,000
customers, with a population estimate at about 115,000. So slightly more than
half of the island's population. Average daily water consumption, 25 million
gallons per day. Operate and maintain over 1,000 miles of pipeline, 75 sources,
210 water tanks, and over 80 booster -pump stations.
For this current fiscal year, our operating budget is about $54 million, of which
approximately $20 million is budgeted for power. So that's how much power we
use. So energy is high in our priority as far as how to manage that a little bit
better. Along with that, we have a $96 million, five-year CIP budget.
All year 23 public water system fall under the Safe Drinking Water Act. We need
to be in compliance with the Federal and State drinking water requirements to
ensure that our customers, our community, has access to safe drinking water at all
times. Basically, if we do our job right—bottom line, we get taken for granted.
You open your tap, water should come out. You fill up a glass, you shouldn't be
afraid to drink from it and worry about getting sick. We like to think that when
you get your water bill, it's probably less than your cell bill, HELCO bill,
telephone, cable, cell phone bill, thinks like that. Currently, we're still only
sending out a bill every two months. So a bi-monthly cycle.
So here's some DWS 101. Water system components. What infrastructure
actually comprise or snake up a water system. So from source to tap basically, we
have first the source, which is wells—mostly wells. We have a few springs, a
tunnel that we have on standby, and one surface water treatment facility in
Waimea that typically feeds into a storage tank, gets transmitted through water
pipes to a distribution system made up of more tanks, pipelines, boosters, service
laterals, and ultimately meters.
So just show you some pictures of some of our components. So this is a picture
of a well. So contrary to what maybe a lot of people may think is these are quite
sizeable units. If you see the picture on the left, those are pump bowls. Many
stages of pump bowls. That one in particular is about 26 feet long. The
accompanying motor is about 13 feet long weighing close to four tons. So these
are not stuff you can buy from Home Depot, bottom line. So you know,
sometimes we've been asked why it takes so long sometimes to repair a well. It's
because they don't stock this on a shelf anywhere. It's a, you know, they build it
when you order it kind of thing.
So that's a deep well, and this is a storage tank, typical storage tank. Some of you
may have seen them around in your neighborhoods. We try to blend them in with
the surrounding as best we can, but they're big concrete structures, so we paint
them and that's about all we can do, okay, inside and outside. So you know, there
are some concerns about how do our tanks handle earthquakes. So the older ones,
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
those are under the process of either getting replaced or upgraded at certain times.
But our new ones are specifically designed for the seismic zone that they'll be in.
So if you notice on the lower left, the seismic tables and tendons and whatnot all
go factor into the design and construction of these water tanks to make thein safe
during earthquake events.
The next slide shows our typical water main. So a lot of times our—again, we're
sight unseen. All the water mains are typically buried underground. Here's a
booster pump station next. And ultimately our jurisdiction ends at the water
meter. So once you're on private property, that's basically the customer's kuleana
to do what they need to do to get it to their house, commercial business and
whatnot, yeah.
Alright, so up until recent tunes, basically that's what we were focused on, but
understanding the high level of—well basically we're a major stakeholder just in
water in general. So we understand that we also need to be stewards of the
resource, so a lot of our newer efforts now are focused on sustainability. We're
looking at it from a four -pronged approach. Conservation, which is more on the
education side as far as trying to educate our customers how they can use water
more wisely, more efficiently and things like that. Use hopefully appropriate
landscaping that is appropriate for the area that you reside in.
Other things, water audits and water loss management. That's on our side. So
basically, we don't want to have a whole bunch of water main leaks. Or basically
on our utility side we want to snake sure that we're not wasting these resources.
So that's what the water audit and water loss management program is primarily
geared for.
Then watershed protection. You know, everybody wants to make sure we have
enough water, enough good water, for our future generations. How we are
working on that is, we're partnering with other government agencies and private
entities to make sure that we can sustain this resource for multi -generations down
the road. Things like the Fresh Water Initiative, which is a component of the
Hawai`i Community Foundation, so we're active members of that Freshwater
Council. They have that goal for 100 million gallons of recapturing water either
through watershed protection, conservation or reuse. We also partnered with the
`Iki Wai effort, a $20 million grant from EPSCoR (Education & Workforce.
Education & Opportunities) I believe, through the University of Hawai`i.
We're also working with Hawaii Community Foundation directly and with Hugh
Hiro, to have them help us identify which watersheds might be beneficial for us to
help protect, help the State protect, so that we can ensure that for drinking water
customers, that resource will be protected in the long term.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
Then our Water Use and Development Plan is a dynamic plan that we've
coordinated. It's a State requirement, but basically it's a guidebook to make sure
that the development water needs work together, again to ensure that we have
long term sustainability of the resource basically.
So that's it, Water Supply 101. Hearing no questions, thank you for your time.
CHR. ADAMS: Thanks Manager Okumoto. Do we have questions for the
Manager/Chief Engineer? Commissioner Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Hi, thanks for coming in. So my first question is, one of the
earliest pieces of testimony we received as a commission was from a man who
was suggesting that we put into the Charter more demanding qualifications for
people on the Water Board. I think they specifically were asking for, I think, an
engineering degree, in relation to the pump failures that happened. So this person
felt that the commission did not have the technical knowledge to be able to ask
the right questions, basically, and help to direct the department appropriately. I
think they were asking for at least one person on the commission to have, you
know, very technical knowledge. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think
that would be an appropriate amendment to the Charter, to ask for that in the
commission?
MR. OKUMOTO: Okay, thank you. Personally and professionally, I don't think
that's required within the Charter. I've been with the department for over 20
years, and I've gone through numerous Water Boards. I think it's actually a
benefit and you have a mix and you don't put certain requirements on the board
members, because you have these varying perspectives that are all legitimate. We
have technical staff on board. All we need is direction from the Water Board
saying, "Hey, this is a priority. We want you to maybe seek outside professional
assistance." Which is what we did with this last go around with the Kona
situation.
We do have from time to time some technical people on the board. It could be
financial background, it's been legal background, it's also been engineering
background. I've never seen it where one really showed to be an actual necessity
to be identified as in a Charter amendment. I think overall as a body, when they
all can collectively come together and work with the department, we've always
come up with the appropriate solutions.
MS. GALIMBA: Maybe a follow-up question to that. I think I'tn on some board
where I don't have the technical knowledge when I come in, and it really helps to
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
g.
(Note: The remainder of the transcript Communication No. 9 is not
available due to technical difficulties. The discussion with departments
regarding Charter amendments to those sections pertaining to them is
unavailable due to technical difficulties. The remainder of the discussion for
this agenda item is included below, in summary format.)
Hawai`i Police Department- Deputy Police Chief Kenneth Bugado, Jr.
(Note: At this time, Hawaii Police Department's Deputy Police Chief;
Kenneth Bugado, Jr. came forward to address the members of the
Commission. Deputy Chief Bugado provided a handout to the
Commission. See Charter Communication No 9.4)
h. Mass Transit Agency -Mass Transit Administrator Maria "Sole" Aranguiz
Recess:
Reconvene:
COMMUNI-
CATIONS:
(Note: At this time, Mass Transit Agency's Mass Transit Administrator,
Maria "Sole" Aranguiz and Tiffany Kai, Paratransit Coordinator, carne
forward to address the members of the Commission. Mass Transit
Administrator, Maria "Sole" Aranguiz provided a handout to the
Commission. See Charter Communication No 9.2)
At 4:07 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
The meeting reconvened at 4:15 p.m.
The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of
business, Communications.
CHR. ADAMS: The plan is now to revert back to our normal order of business.
So we will go back to Communications and you have in your packets and also in
the agenda that was sent to us, the variety of Communications and so I would just
kind of like to run through there and if anyone has any comments that they would
like to make, then we can do that. I would also point out that for Communication
No. 1.6, that we do have the Director here if there are any questions having to do
with that particular Communication.
Thank you. We then also have Communication No. 5.1: Legislative and election
history for the Game Management Advisory Commission. Communication No.
5.2: Administrative Rules for Police Commission and Fire Commission. Are
there any questions or comments regarding those two?
Alright, we...
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MS. RICE: I have to look. lust a second. I was eating. Sorry. Mr. Chairman.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: On the Communication from Environmental Management, there was
a...
CHR. ADAMS: He just left.
MS. RICE: Oh.
CHR. ADAMS: Anyway, go ahead.
MS. RICE: Well, it's alright. It's just, cause he says what he wants, like minor
modifications. It's on page 12 attic, what we received, or what I have in front of
me. Anyway, at some point, would that be something that we would put in a
proposal to, if we thought that it was something that should be done? He is just
talking about... let's see, he says changing the name. There are two sections I
would be asking for minor modifications. Duties and functions of the department
and I am just skimming this... "the Department of Environmental Management
has the name environment in it. Because of that the Department is looked to as
the environmental agency for the County, when in fact it is structured in the
Charter as an operating company. We operate wastewater treatment. We operate
solid waste facilities, etc."
So, I think what he is asking for is for us to look at correcting the name to more
reflect what they actually do.
CHR. ADAMS: Right. And, so any of us has the opportunity to make a proposal.
MS. RICE: Put a proposal.
CHR. ADAMS: That's correct.
MS. RICE: Okay. That was my question. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright. Moving on, we also had Communication No. 7.1 which
was a response to the request for proposed amendments/recommendations that
came back to us from the Fire Commission and as you can see that there was
particularly on the second page, there are redlined suggestions or
recommendations from the Fire Commission.
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I-Iawaii County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
7.2: Response to request for proposed amendments/recommendations- Salary
Commission, and then Communication No. 7.3: Response from the Merit
Appeals Board... I am sorry?
MR. ROEHRIG: No, go— I am talking to myself. Excuse me.
CHR. ADAMS: Communication No. 7.4 is a response from the Enviromnental
Management Commission, and there are additional, as you are aware, there are
additional comments that we have received that did not make this agenda and will
be part of the Communications for next month. Okay.
Anyone have any comments on 7.4? 7.5 is the response to request for proposed
amendments/recommendations from the Windward Planning Commission. We
heard a little bit about that from the Deputy Planning Director.
And then we have Communication No. 8 from Council Member O'Hara with
some suggestions for amendments to the Charter as well. The Council Member
approached me. She wasn't going to be able to stay for the meeting. She did say
that if there are questions that Commissioners have that she would be happy to
answer those questions. We can send her a note and she will reply in writing.
Okay.
MS. RICE: So...
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: On those, all those letters to us so to speak, for instance Council
Member O'Hara's, there were certain things that she asked us to take a look at, so
do we make proposals for those? How do we discuss those and take a look at
them so to speak?
CHR. ADAMS: Well, they have been received as a Communication and we are in
that process right now on the agenda where if you have some comments that you
would like to make about that Communication you are able to do that.
MS. RICE: Okay. Okay, well, I'll let it go for the time being. Cause it's—I need
to be better prepared.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Commissioner Galimba?
MS. GALIMBA: Thanks. So kind of a follow up on her question. So if some of
these things that they are, for instance the Windward Planning Commission
bringing up our substantive but not terribly substantive, for instance not having
ex -officio members of the Commission... if we want to take that up, does one of
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Hawai` i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
us need to do a suggestion form for our Charter Commission or would perhaps
some of these less substantive things be just taken into sort of a housekeeping
measure that we were talking about last time? I mean it is sort of a grey area there
you know.
CHR. ADAMS: I am going to let Mr. Henricks talk here in a second. I would if
it's me, I will default to considering them substantive and then come up with a
proposal. But there are those that, but it is going to be the Commission's
decision, right, I mean we are all going to take a look at these proposals and we
are going to vote them aye or naye right?, and so, the idea though that we are also
developing this housekeeping...
MS. GALIMBA: List.
CHR. ADAMS: List or you know, I'll turn that over to our analyst.
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you. I guess the first thing would be, I wouldn't say
there is really an in between. Either it matters or it doesn't and I think that you
had said that well. And I know that you had started. You have a proposal on
today's agenda that uses the word "rephrases" and I think that when you use that
word, the pure intent is not to change any meaning whatsoever but to clarify
wording so that it reads better and also perhaps there's no legal arguments as to
what it means. And those things that would fall into that category could be
included into the proposal by way of an amendment or they could be handled
separately.
It would be best probably if we have something that we are going to call a
"housekeeping amendment" that is all in one proposal because again, it wouldn't
make sense to have several proposals that—their intent is to rephrase, clarify, but
not change the meaning at all. I think the example you gave of taking out ex -
officio members is meaningful right?, so, and I know that we have staff that's
working with the Chair to try to find areas of the Charter that would meet that
criteria of being purely to clarify but not change meaning whatsoever, so and I
agree that it will be up to you folks to discuss that and then get guidance as to —
from legal counsel as well, whether or not that to be the case.
MS. GALIMBA: Okay.
MR. HENRICKS: But again, it would be best to have one proposal if we want to
call it a "housekeeping" proposal, but when you are thinking about that, again, not
changing meaning and not changing how things work or how they are constituted,
membership or anything of that nature. Even some of the suggestions from the
Planning Commission to take out transitional provisions, you consider that
housekeeping because there are historical, but I wouldn't. I think that goes
beyond what we would call a housekeeping amendment.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MS. GALIMBA: Okay so basically one of us would need to kind of champion
this—these proposals and put them, work with you to put them before you.
MR. HENRICKS: Much as the Chair has put two proposals together today to kind
of get the ball rolling, nothing will come before the Commission to be voted on
unless somebody takes the initiative to fill out a proposal form, get it on the
agenda for discussion, it's open for amendment, it's open for discussion, and open
for voting.
MS. GALIMBA: Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Commissioner Bergin?
MR. BERGIN: So, I kind of am searching, I think as Sally is, more to do with
procedure and the procession of many, many thoughts that are corning in, some
from department heads and some from the public. At what point does this basket
be sifted? Does it mean then, that if any of us see merit in one of them, that we
would champion that? We would make the motion, and at what point do we
begin to make those motions because you know, the process is ahnost two years
long.
CHR. ADAMS: It... if I may, Commissioner Bergin, it's not two years long and
we are actually, I was going to bring this up as a part of another part of the agenda
but the fact is and I know that Mr. Henricks is going to speak as well. I like the
term championing because I think that that is a good use—the way that we sift, is
we bring these proposals if we think that something that we have heard is worthy
of discussion then we prepare the proposal, we will put it on the agenda and we
will have the discussion as a Board. The problem is that it is not a two year
process for us. It is a one year process for us right and we have to be done by
June 26th, which actually for us means we have to be done by the second Friday of
June because that is our meeting, in terms of providing it.
And actually, we actually have to be done prior to that. We have to be done
because we have these public hearings and we want to bring to the public hearings
that we are going to have in the variety of jurisdictions, districts that are required
by Charter, in you know our February and March timeline that we will talk about
later. We have to have those proposals ready and that means first reading level.
So that's two separate meetings that we have to have it. So all of a sudden, we are
looking at June and then we are looking at February and March and then we are
looking at November and that is a month away. So the sifting is going to happen
here pretty quickly.
MS. SAQUING: I have a question, Chair.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
CHR. ADAMS: If I may, I had Commissioner Hopkins here first.
MR. HOPKINS: I had a question on there and I won't give the specifics on it.
But there have basically been suggestions made around part of the things here that
essentially would be we just strike part of the Charter okay? And I am not going
to even talk about what sections, but what happens if we just strike that part of the
Charter? What happens to those functions that were being talked about there? Do
they just revert to the general—do we have to talk about where those functions go
now or we can just sit there just strike it and let County Council and the Mayor
figure out how they are going to deal with it afterwards? Because I can't bring up
exactly what was said because it is not on the agenda the way that I look at it. We
actually had somebody suggest, if you look at the implication of one of the
testimonies today basically means we strike part of the Charter you know,
regarding a particular function that is being discussed in the Charter today.
MR. HENRICKS: I think that would be part of your discussions with legal
counsel here and perhaps even the affected department to say if you remove
something, does it need to be replaced with anything? I mean different situations
may require different responses to that but, so without specifics it is hard to say
whether or not it needs to be...
MR. HOPKINS: Yeah, well I don't know. I can give you the specifics but I
don't know whether I can because...
MR. HENRICKS: If it was testified on today, it is probably ripe for discussion.
CHR. ADAMS: If it was brought up by public testimony, you can reference the
public testimony.
MR. HOPKINS: Okay. Well, then thank you for that.
CHR. ADAMS: I mean that's my understanding.
MR. HOPKINS: I am just trying to be careful.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay, one second. Let me just ask our counsel.
MR. MASUDA: Yes that's... Hi. Yes, that's correct. If it was brought up, it's
on today's agenda, it is fair game. Also, what you also have to be concerned
about when you are just striking something is does that language—is that enabling
language? Does that language authorize the department to function a certain
way? That does not necessarily eliminate the department depending on what
particular language you are talking about.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
The other thing I wanted to bring up earlier is be careful what you put under
"housekeeping". Some things especially in the legislature get put under
"housekeeping" as "oh, it's just housekeeping", but it is actually not, so be careful
what you put under "housekeeping" because you know the way something is
phrased, whether it is plural or singular may make a big difference.
What Mr. Henricks said is very true. Put something ahead of that so you will
know the intent is to remain the same, it is just a word change or a paraphrase, or
a rephrasing, or whatever.
MR. HOPKINS: Okay. Could I go back to... now, because basically the
question is, it was suggested today or the implication if you followed the line of
thought all the way down it was from Brenda Ford's suggestion is kill the Salary
Commission. Put it back on Council. That's what she said. Now I am saying if a
proposal comes up to that effect, does it say, does it even have to, can we just say
do away with any reference to Salary Commission, it's gone. And then, do we
have to sit there and then say what's going to take that place in our proposal. I
guess that's my question.
MR. HENRICKS: I think you are all very responsible people, that's why you are
here.
MR. HOPKINS: Yeah.
MR. HENRICKS: So if you know that salaries need to be set because otherwise
we don't know what they are and you get rid of the body that sets them, as
responsible people you would figure out a way to make sure that there is
something in place to...
MR. HOPKINS: That sets that responsibility.
MR. HENRICKS: I understand what you are saying. If you just get rid of the
Salary Commission from the Charter and the Charter now does not, it is not a
Charter item, where will it go, who will take its place, so that becomes part of the
discussion too. But I think with something like that, something that needs to be
done as opposed to something maybe that people might consider is a luxury for
the County. If you strike that it goes away, perhaps services are altered, but that
is a discretionary decision, but I think when you talk about salaries, the
assumption is that people need to get paid and there needs to be a way to
determine what they are going to get paid, so likely part of that elimination is to
address what happens next.
MR. HOPKINS: Okay. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Saquing.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MS. SAQUING: Yes thank you. I am just tossing this suggestion out. There's
so many potential proposals and ideas and for me, like my mind is racing. is there
some way that things can be recorded while we are having these discussions that
will kind of earmark a potential proposal, what Commissioner Rice was thinking
of something, or are we just responsible for writing our own notes and submitting
proposals? I guess I am asking for support from—sorry Leslie and Shannon. If
there's some way that it can be done in an orderly fashion so there's some record
of all of the questions that are being asked about creating potential proposals in
order to have the discussion? Because I am going to go back and I might say well
I have this proposal but I am like so crazy busy in my real life, I might not get to
it. But there is, we are working on a crunch time now to get what we need to do
for the Charter so I am tossing out an idea if there is anything out there for us to
move that process along with regards to proposals and bringing it to the table in a
more expeditious manner.
CHR. ADAMS: So, just so I understand, you are looking for essentially a list of
all of the suggestions that we have heard so far?
MS. SAQUING: Yeah. A record. I mean it is on the minutes so now are we
going to wait for the minutes or is there a... can we create a tickler thing that will
bring up those potential proposals so we can look at them and address them ahead
of time. Does that make sense?
CHR. ADAMS: So the question I would have, so let me take that and ask the
additional question. I think it is a good idea. That would be my first comment. I
am a little concerned about it because I don't want to miss something if we are
putting something together that maybe we think that that wasn't a suggestion but
in fact it was, so then we are going to go overboard on making sure we don't miss
anything, so understand that right?
MS. SAQUING: Right.
CHR. ADAMS: But the other part of this is, how do we, if we create that, are we
able to then share that back with the Commissioners? Are we breaking any type
of—it's just a Communication at that point right? It would become a
Communication that maybe I send because it comes out from underneath my, it
comes from me.
Cause even if the staff doesn't do it and I go back and I go through all these things
and I put them together, I am not precluded by anything from sending a
Communication that is developed from essentially our minutes, back to the
Commissioners right? I am not telling anybody to do anything, I am just
developing that list.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MR. MASUDA: If you are just developing that list, I don't think that will fall
under any prohibition of your suggesting that this item has any more merit then
the item four or five or whatever. If that is purely the Communication, the big
concern then becomes does it become a serial communication. Is that going to be
then the vehicle for one Commissioner to send to the other Commissioner and say
"hey, I highlighted the ones I voted for, the ones I want, what about you?"
CHR. ADAMS: Oh, sure, although the way that we would work this, it would
come from Shannon. So, I wouldn't send it personally.
MR. MASUDA: So it would be like a modified minutes?
CHR. ADAMS: It would be a product of the minutes.
MS. SAQUING: So here, if I may, so when we are having these discussions if
there is a proposal that I would like to bring to the table, I would simply say
"Proposal" and it will be on the minutes blah, blah, blah, blah and then you can
extract all of the proposals from the minutes and then that that's the foundation of
us to have the discussion further. I am just thinking of ways to keep it simple for
all of us with all of the ideas and thoughts that are flying around.
CHR. ADAMS: Let me, if I may understand what you are saying.
MS. SAQUING: Okay. Go ahead.
CHR. ADAMS: We are going to get to you. Are you saying that we would have
these conversations about these suggestions outside of them being proposals?
MS. SAQUING: No. I am saying, I am suggesting that it would be a method to
document all of the proposals as they come up so that they can be brought to the
table to discuss at a later date, and I don't even know if that can be done. I am
just trying to keep things organized.
MR. MASUDA: Yeah, you're getting into murky waters.
CHR. ADAMS: Those are judgments that you are asking somebody, typically
staff to make. Each of us are going to take a look at these things to determine
whether or not we think they are valuable or not and what you may think makes
sense as a proposal, I may think is total hogwash. And of course is the idea is that
all of that stuff would be gathered, but we are asking somebody in judgment to do
that.
MS. SAQUING: Okay. Thank you.
MS. GALIMBA: It was a good idea but I could see how it is problematic.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: Thank you. A couple of comments if...
MR. HENRICKS: We can't hear. If you could just turn your microphone on.
MR. ROEHRIG: Thanks ah.
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you.
MR. ROEHRIG: If we are going to consider proposals, maybe there is a
chicken egg problem. I would like a legal opinion regarding the ramifications of
any proposals that we are considering. Cause you know you are talking about
striking something. Okay, what is going to happen if you do strike it. I would
like to see a legal opinion of all of the results, the ramifications of what a proposal
of striking something will mean you know in life. I think that's important. Now
whether that is first, before or after I don't know but I wouldn't want to vote on
something without a firm understanding legally what it means by doing or taking
that action.
And as far as, something else I would like to see, I would like to see some
minutes from these hearings. Right now all we have is this 75 page transcript
which I couldn't even get to. I missed the last hearing. It wouldn't download for
me. But there should be minutes which reflect what she is talking about.
Whatever the proposal, you shouldn't have to go through 75 pages to go find out
something, what's going on. It should have a regular minutes just like any other
meeting does and then you can have after that if you want to have 75 pages of
verbatim fine, but you got to have something that you can look at whether it is the
public or any of us to look at minutes and see what in the world has gone on in
these meetings and we don't have that.
MR. MASUDA: So, I am just trying to wrap my brain around what the...
CHR. ADAMS: So right now our counsel is speaking.
MR. MASUDA: Sorry. I am Craig Masuda, Counsel for the Commission. So,
what you folks are suggesting is that some time during the testimony or during the
presentation, somebody is going to say "I want that noted as part of the
proposals."
MS. SAQUING: No. That's not what I meant.
MR. MASUDA: No. So what?
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Saquing.
MS. SAQUING: I am sorry, so what I was looking for is when we are having
discussion amongst ourselves right now after all of the presentations are done and
we have potential proposals that we want to bring to the table, is there a method
that we can do that, like right here, so I would say "I want a proposal to do blah,
blah, blah" and it gets written down that it is corning from me whether it flies or
not, I am going through the process of offering my proposal which is what we are
supposed to do for the process.
MR. MASUDA: Okay.
MS. SAQUING: And that way it is recorded for us to use and discuss. Not after
and not while they are here by the way. It is only for the Charter Commission.
That way it separates the broader minutes of the entire meeting where you have
only proposal minutes and ideas and that also gives us a chance to look at
everyone else's proposals to see how we think about it and how we can proceed
as an entity.
MR. MASUDA: Okay. Let me see if I get this correct. This is Craig Masuda
again. You are looking for a suggestion based upon what Mr. Roehrig was
saying, instead of having to search through the whole thing, a section within the
minutes that says "Proposals" and the time on the agenda where everybody will
bring up their proposals that they want to bring up, new proposals, or existing
proposals at that point so everybody knows it is going to be at the very end prior
to adjournment or something like that.
MS. SAQUING: Yeah.
CHR. ADAMS: So thank you for laying that out and making that understanding.
This is Chair Adams.
What we are able to talk about at a meeting is in our agenda. So, now we have
been talking about these items that are part of the Communications right, but
because they are on the agenda as Communications, we are able address them.
Proposals come to the agenda by being proposals that come to the agenda.
MS. SAQUING: Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: Right? So when we have suggestions that we receive, so for
example, over the last three meetings we have had department heads, we have had
the Chair of the Council, we have had the Mayor come and talk to us, some make
some suggestions and then we have gone and we have asked them for additional
information and then they have communicated to that and we have received that
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
information. Those then become grist for our mill right? We then do the hard
work of saying what is it in here that we want to turn in to a proposal right?
Individually. Right? And then when we have done that, we then submit that to
the Chair who then puts that on the agenda. And then that is how we have the
conversation about the proposal.
MS. SAQUING: Right.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. So the ability to do that, our ability to tackle the
information as it is occurring in real time, we are constrained in doing that right?
And the way, but the way we move through that is, we decide individually
whether or not it is worth putting together a proposal for a ballot measure and
then submitting it so we can make sure that it gets to the next agenda. And then
we can have that discussion which includes the legal framework of that proposal.
We absolutely have to do that, I mean this Charter is a legal document. We have
to make sure that it fits. So, the deal is, we have heard from everybody right. We
haven't yet gone through the rest of the Charter XI -XVI but we are supposed to
do that today.
I am looking at the time too but guess what? This may be one of them days. And
so, when we have done both of those things, we will have done what we said we
wanted to do with our two phase or our two pathway forward, two pronged attack
at looking at the Charter. Hearing about it and looking at it. And now we have
got all the information that we are going to get. It's not all the information that
we are going to get by the way, but it is all the information that we are going to
get right now and the idea is to say "okay, are there things that we think make
sense to propose as ballot measures to modify the Charter?" That we do now in
this next month. Okay?
MS. SAQUING: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: If I can go back to the Communications just quickly.
CHR. ADAMS: Please.
MS. RICE: I checked my notes. On the Windward Planning Commission which
was a restructuring of a sentence, didn't change the meaning, just changed the
sentence structure...
CHR. ADAMS: Which Communication are you looking at if I could ask?
MS. RICE: I am sorry, 7.5.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
CHR. ADAMS: Okay.
MS. RICE: That is just simply switching around the way the Council is allocated
to different districts. And, now that to me would be a very simple proposal but
somebody has to make it right?
CHR. ADAMS: That's correct.
MS. RICE: So does somebody just have to volunteer to put that down on a form
and send it in?
CHR. ADAMS: So, I am just going to reiterate what I said last meeting. I am not
going to assign these proposals. I don't think it is my job, I don't think—I think
that I would be overstating...
MS. RICE: Right.
CHR. ADAMS: Or overstepping my bounds to do that. We are all equal
Commissioners. And, so yes, we each have to step up to do that.
MS. RICE: Okay. Okay, that's fine. I will take that one. Just so you know.
Then on Council Member O'Hara's Communication Number 8, back to that, her
recommendations where she actually has an ordinance, it doesn't have a number
but it is a draft ordinance for the Director of the different departments to serve for
two years and be eligible for reappointment, I think it was pretty clear that the
Mayor did not like that. And that may be moot because if—depending on how
our ad hoc committee on Council terms is, our proposal comes in, if in fact we...
CHR. ADAMS: if 1, If I may, that ad hoc committee isn't making a proposal, I
don't believe right? It's investigating and reviewing...
MS. RICE: No.
CHR. ADAMS: That particular section right?
MS. RICE: We are making a report.
CHR. ADAMS: Yes.
MS. RICE: Excuse me. If our report recommends a longer term for Council, then
that would handle Council Member O'Hara's complaint. Correct?
CHR. ADAMS: That's your view.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MS. RICE: That's my own view, yes and it goes, she goes through each of the
departments, so that is my comment on that and then on the independent police
auditor which was another ordinance that, draft ordinance that she had in her
Communication, again, I think it was fairly clear that the police department did
not think that was necessary that they have a very complete audit already done by
an outsider and that that would not be necessary. That's my opinion and the other
one concerning the Water Board I will let go for another day because that is more
complicated.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: We have had this discussion about housekeeping things and I
am going to take a contrary viewpoint which is not out of the ordinary for me. I
think that you know the Commission here, we are here to look at substantive stuff.
If it is purely housekeeping and we have been living with it already and we are
working with it, why are we going to waste time on crossing T's, correcting
spellings, and shifting words around? Let's just focus on substantive changes and
leave the bad grammar, leave the misspellings in the Charter. I don't care. It
doesn't seem to be bothering the way the government operates. Now if there is a
question about clarity, what does it really mean, and we need to fix that, that's a
substantive change and my suggestion on here is let's not waste our time on
housekeeping. Let's focus on substantive issues and we have some really
important substantive issues and we have gotten a lot of information on here, and
we have gotten some suggestions, and you know I will be entering some things,
and just because somebody said something that they would like to see the change
that doesn't mean that I am going to support everything and put it up there. But
that is just my personal feeling people.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. So we are pretty far afloat right now from our discussion
and communications I would just say that.
MR. HOPKINS: Yes we are.
CHR. ADAMS: Comrnissioner Bergin did you have something that you wanted
to add?
MR. BERGIN: Excuse me. Sally continues to reach for the same point I am
trying to reach too.
MR. HENRICKS: Dr. Bergin I am so sorry, can you speak into the microphone?
Thank you. I apologize.
MR. BERGIN: Commissioner Rice has spoken to exactly the point I am trying to
reach. She went through the Communications, she rendered a positive opinion or
a negative one. Is that process the sifting, in other words, those are set aside as
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
going to be entered into our permanent recommendation and those that were not
would be eliminated. Is the sift happening right now?
CHR. ADAMS: The sift is not happening right now. The sift occurs when you
bring a proposal and we vote on it. Right now we are having opinions placed on
things that folks have brought to us.
MR. BERGIN: Okay. So therefore, to convert her verbal suggestions to a written
proposal by her or a motion by her, would then, it would move from discussion to
actual placing.
CHR. ADAMS: That's correct. The way that we consider proposals is we put
them into motion like a motion and then we have a discussion and the discussion
is on the motion and then we decide whether or not—we vote it up or we vote it
down and then if it is voted up then we see it at the next meeting and we vote it up
and we vote it down. And that way, it becomes not just our perspectives or our
views, or our opinions, it becomes our collegial body, our collective body
decision of what we are going to do.
Commissioner Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Just to be super clear on this. So, say I have a strong feeling
about one of these and I want it to come before the Board in November or, is
November the deadline or is December also...
CHR. ADAMS: Yes.
MS. GALIMBA: November is the deadline? November -December?
CHR. ADAMS: Right, we are going to talk about that on Item 4 of New
Business.
MS. GALIMBA: Okay, so, if we want to bring something before us very quickly
here now, do we absolutely have to fill out the form that was given to us? The
suggestion form and give it to Jon and have him work on it and get it on to the
agenda? Is that... all of that
CHR. ADAMS: Yes.
MS. GALIMBA: All of those are necessary? Correct?
CHR. ADAMS: That's what I did so that we could talk about these two items
today.
MS. GALIMBA: Okay. Got it. Thank you.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MR. HENRICKS: May I offer this please?
CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Henricks?
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you Chair Adams. Since there's some reluctancy to
maybe put things forward without some vote of confidence from the rest of the
Board... I sensed incorrectly, but I will offer please call me if you have any
questions about how do I turn my thought into something to put an a paper that
then gets on the agenda, that can not only be voted up and down, but discussed
and potentially amended to modify it, to add to it, to reduce it, to change it to
some degree. Not completely because that wouldn't be appropriate but you can
amend it, but again to help with that process, if there is some kind of a block
between "I saw something that I liked in the Communications and the input that
we received, or that I heard another Commissioner say, and I don't know if they
are going to do it." Call me and I'll help you get it down on to the proposal form
and then we will go ahead and have our meetings and discuss what goes on the
agenda and as Chair Adams said, everything that he gets by and large will be on
the next available agenda and then it becomes the body's to consider as a group.
And then what we will try to do is make sure that the appropriate department
heads or personnel is here and of course we will always have legal counsel to help
guide you along the way.
And as Mr. Roehrig said, I completely agree. By and large every proposal should
have at least a cursory legal review if not an in depth one that is very responsible
so that is what I offer to try to help. I understand. Sometimes it is hard to take
thoughts and then put them on a paper and feel comfortable that you have
articulated them enough for discussion and that is really important that when we
make the proposals, they are specific enough, that they will keep the discussion
within the parameters of what you intended but also allow for ample public notice
so that the people can come and testify on it and also participate with you in that
process and give you information and input perhaps some new ideas to amend it
or change it or convince you to not do it, or that you are on the right track. So I
offer that.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Mr. Henricks.
MS. RICE: I have one more. Oh, I am sorry.
CHR. ADAMS: Actually, Commissioner Zelko
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yeah, just real quick. You know I think the danger
if we had somebody take a look at our minutes and then kind of glean from it
what were the suggestions that were good enough to make it on that other list,
there may be things that are missed. I think that would be an issue and I think it
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
creates a liability. Where this other way where we are getting all of these
Communications, we have the ability to look at it and then ourselves take it
forward. But I would be afraid if I started relying on—and I mean I think that the
staff is fabulous, but I certainly would miss things I think, so I just... I think it
creates a liability to do it that way.
CHR. ADAMS: I really appreciate that. Unfortunately I think that's the game we
are in.
Does anyone else have anything? Yes, Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: One quick question. What if we get a response from one of the, such
as we have gotten today in our Communications and we strongly disagree with a
recommendation. Do we write a proposal to disagree? How do we handle that?
CHR. ADAMS: So the way that we handle that is that we respond to the folks
that have provided us with communications, we thank them for their interest in
our County and the work of the Charter Commission, and the work that they have
done, and then we take it under advisement and then we develop proposals that
we think are important and we provide them to this group and as a collegial body
we vote yae or nay to move theta on to the ballot. If there are items that we look
at that make no sense to us, then we don't write a proposal on that.
MS. RICE: Do we discuss those?
CHR. ADAMS: If it comes up in the discussion on a proposal, but if it doesn't
come up as a proposal then there is no need to discuss it.
MR. HENRICKS: I will say this though, as you just did and Dr. Bergin had
commented on, if you see something and you want to make a comment on it, even
if it is that you don't care for it, it is on the record, that's fine but you only make a
proposal if you want to champion it.
MS. RICE: Right.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you.
MS. RICE: Thanks.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. I am cognizant of our time. And I am looking at what we
still have to do. Am I allowed parliamentary wise to have a conversation about
what we have here?
MR. HENRICKS: Absolutely.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. So we still have Unfinished Business which won't take
that long. We have... 1 don't believe will take that long, we have New Business,
we have Items 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6, we have the report and we have Executive Session
with two Communications associated with at least two Communications
associated with Executive Session.
I am aware that we have in the past indicated that we might be willing to meet at
another time to consider things that we haven't had, but I am going to need to
know what I can do here because I am going to make a suggestion and I need to
know whether it is something that needs to be a motion or we can just do it. So
for example, 1 think that Items 5 and 6 although 1 developed them so we could
through the process of looking at them, I think that they are not, they don't have
to be considered today, we can look at them in November with other proposals.
These are the proposals, the CA (Charter Amendment) 1 and CA 2. I think we
could probably push those off to the November meeting.
Do we have to have a motion to do that since they are on this agenda?
MR. HENRICKS: 1 like the loose but fair parliamentary structure that you have
been offering and working under. I would say that because you haven't taken
them up and there is no motion, you don't need a motion to postpone thein.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay.
MR. HENRICKS: If you make it clear and you ask the group, if there is no
objections, I would move this to Unfinished Business on the next agenda and you
will offer that up for discussion and there are no objections then it is readily
understood, it is on the record, staff knows what to do, we make notes, we put it
on the next agenda under Unfinished Business.
CHR. ADAMS: So, are there any objections to the idea of New Business Items 5
and 6 being moved to Unfinished Business of our November meeting? Well, let it
be said, let it be done.
We also have the review- Item No. 2 I think we need to do that. Item No. 3 is
there because I know that there are at least one item that a Commissioner wants to
discuss. Item No. 4—let us, are there any objections to moving Item No. 4 to the
Unfinished Business of the next meeting? Alright, so let's do that as well.
And then what I would like to do is I think I would like to move, given the fact
that we have the Corporation Counsel with us, I would like to move at this time to
Executive Session so we can consider those Communications and then we will
come back out and finish up with the rest of our Unfinished, New and Reports.
MR. ROEHRIG: My wife is outside.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
CHR. ADAMS: We won't have any votes. I already know that one
Commissioner has to leave by 5:30 already if, I'd like to be able to finish with
looking at Item 2, Item 3, the report we don't have any discussion on anyway
so...
MS. RICE: Mr. Chairman...
CHR. ADAMS: One second Commissioner Rice. My concern is that if we don't
do Item 2, if we push Item 2 off and we don't go through it, then we will have to
consider that in November at the same time we are trying to get through a bunch
of proposals. So...
MR. ROEHRIG: Can we continue to another date before November?
CHR. ADAMS: I mean we can. I think we have the ability to do that right? But
the question would be which meeting, what day would work for everybody.
MR. HENRICKS: Right. You can recess a meeting to another day. Of course
there are logistical considerations.
MR. ROEHRIG: I am for recessing to another date that is agreeable when
everyone... I am interested in recessing to another date where we can discuss this
mainly to make peace in my family since my wife is outside. I didn't tell her we
were going to go to whatever. I told her I don't know when it is going to go to,
but I don't like being pushed through stuff. We should all give it a fair amount of
attention.
CHR. ADAMS: Fair attention to it. I appreciate that as well.
MR. ROEHRIG: So we can all agree on another date before November to pick
this up and continue on. I am for that.
CHR. ADAMS: In the process of conversation, might I ask Mr. Kamelamela if I
could ask you to come forward. Basic logistics question Sir. About how long do
you anticipate the conversation with the Communications going?
MR. KAMELAMELA: Joseph K. Kamelamela, Corp Counsel. Good afternoon
Chair and members of the Charter Commission. You know I can never gauge
how much time is involved when I go into Executive Session because I don't
know what kind of questions come up. I mean I have been in one Executive
Session...
CHR. ADAMS: I get it. I get it.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MR. KAMELAMELA: For two hours you know?
CHR. ADAMS: Alright, so we had a suggestion, Mr. Henricks do we need to
make a motion about this so we can have a discussion on it?
MR. HENRICKS: As far as recessing to another day?
CHR. ADAMS: Right. Or am I able to do that?
MR. HENRICKS: I think you would wait until you have a date and time in mind
and then make a motion based upon that.
CHR. ADAMS: Right. So we can have the conversation about a particular date.
We are not breaking any rules to do that?
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah. Just give us some time to think too because there's all
kinds of other issues that we hadn't accounted for, so don't cone up with a date
and time real fast and make a motion because we will have to go look at calendars
and there are other things that are going on and things of that nature.
CHR. ADAMS: I don't understand what you are asking me because we are about
to start having a conversation about dates and times.
MR. HENRICKS: I understand. Okay. So we are a part of that conversation.
Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: So if we take a look, just so we know, so we are on the 12th of
October, the next meeting is four weeks, the 9th of November, so we are going to
meet on the 9th of November, we know that. So, the question would be what
essentially is available in October if we are looking at October.
So I can pick a date and we can do it that way.
Yes, Commissioner Bergin.
MR. BERGIN: October 19th, morning.
CHR. ADAMS: That's next Friday.
MR. ROEHRIG: Fine with me.
MR. HOPKINS: I teach.
MS. RICE: I am on Maui.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MR. ROEHRIG: Who has the biggest restrictions? I am available most of the
time okay, I am not working so...
MR. HOPKINS: I teach every morning.
MR. ROEHRIG: You teach every morning. Afternoons are good?
MR. HOPKINS: Afternoons except Tuesdays and ...
MR. HENRICKS: Well this is kind of conversational and we are not on any
microphones if that is okay with the Chair. We are just kind of having a during
meeting convo...
MR. ROEHRIG: Paul, how about you? What's good for you?
MR. HAMANO: I am sorry to say but I don't know because I don't have my
calendar with ine. But you just pick a date and I will try to make it.
CHR. ADAMS: So let me just do this. So we know that mornings are difficult.
Afternoons as a general rule, we haven't picked the date yet but generally okay
for most everybody? Alright. So if we said the 1 9t in the afternoon, next Friday,
anybody have a big problem with that?
MR. HENRICKS: Do you guys appreciate my presence? Because I am taking a
very well deserved day off on that day. I will be in Waikaloa with my family.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright. I get it, so what about Monday the 22nd? Are
Mondays...
MR. BERGIN: Good.
MS. RICE: Mondays are terrible for me.
MS. SAQUING: I can do afternoons on Mondays. Afternoons are good for me.
Just keep that in your mind.
MR. HENRICKS: Can 1 ask for a recess just so we can check for room
availability and...
CHR. ADAMS: Recess. Thank you, and then motion right after that. But it is
going to be...
CHR. ADAMS: I would entertain a motion to recess this meeting until Friday,
October 26th at 1:30 p.m. Discussion. Do we have a location?
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MR. HENRICKS: Yes, the Chambers is available.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. And, I understand that Commissioner Hamann doesn't yet
necessarily know, but hopefully he will be able to be here and from what I heard,
two weeks away, most everybody can be here that afternoon. And so, we would
recess— a vote aye, would be to recess this meeting with the understanding we
still have the rest of the agenda to work on. It is not, we do not anticipate, correct
me if I am wrong here Mr. Henricks and our counsel as well. We are not adding
anything to the agenda.
MR. HENRICKS: We cannot. Cannot.
CHR. ADAMS: That is what I thought. So it would be to finish what we have, or
to go through the rest of the agenda that we have, that would be the purpose of
that meeting. That is an aye vote. Okay.
MR. HENRICKS: Before... I am sorry you weren't done.
CHR. ADAMS: Please.
MR. HENRICKS: I thought you were going to take the vote. I'll wait until
you're...
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Any other discussion?
MS. RICE: On the matter of the material that we were given, that we were to
return, should we return that today?
CHR. ADAMS: Yes.
MR. HENRICKS: Yes, please.
CHR. ADAMS: Any other discussion? Commissioner Galimba?
MS. GALIMBA: Just to clarify. We're stopping right now? We are not going to
do the executive session?
CHR. ADAMS: That's correct.
MS. GALIMBA: Okay. Thanks.
MR. HENRICKS: So if I may snake a brief continent before you take the vote.
So, we will be building the agenda for November 9th and perhaps things that
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
happen on the 26th will fall to that, but I just wanted to point out that nothing
precludes any Commissioner for submitting anything for the 9th prior to the re -
adjournment of this meeting on the 26`h. That agenda is still available to you if
you are interested in making proposals and I re -extend my offer to call and talk
stories about these things.
Okay. Thank you so much.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright, so once we take this motion and I bang the ole gavel
down, then we will be in recess until two weeks from now, okay. Alright.
RECESS: At 5:21 p.m. Mr. Hopkins moved that the meeting be recessed. Seconded by Ms.
Springer and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamann,
Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 10.
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioner Todd.
Excused: None.
RECONVENE: The meeting reconvened at 1:34 p.m. on October 26, 2018.
CHR. ADAMS: Good Afternoon. I am calling the fourth session of the Hawai`i
County Charter Commission back into open session after a two week recess.
Today is Friday, October 26, 2018 and the time is around 1:33 p.m. I would ask
everyone to please turn off or silence your communication devices at this time.
The Commission is still on the agenda from October 12th. I would point out that
prior to taking a recess, there were agenda items that were moved to the
November 9th scheduled meeting. However, without objection, given that we
never actually took action on those, we will recall those items back to this
October 12th agenda and consider them today.
Hearing no objection then they will be on today's agenda. I am making sure I
didn't miss something here. Also for the purposes of reconvening this, I would
ask Mr. Henricks to please call the roll to make sure we have a quorum.
Roll was called: Bergin, Galimba, Hamamo, Hopkins, Todd, Rice, Roehrig,
Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter, Chair Adams all present (1 1)
MR. HENRICKS: Chair Adams, you have a full Commission
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Mr. Henricks. Just to refresh our memories and for
the record, we had already dispensed with the following agenda items from the
October 12th agenda. We had approved the minutes, we had gone through the
communications that we were considering in open session, and we had completed
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
Vote on Motion
Enter into Executive
Session
(Approved)
Item one of New Business. That leaves us then with the following items:
Unfinished Business, Items two through six in New Business, Reports, Executive
Session should the Commission so determine, Agenda Items For The Next
Regularly Scheduled Meeting, and Announcements. Are there any questions
regarding those items?
Alright, I would like to at this time, take the referral for Executive Session out of
order. We have the Corporation Counsel, Mr. Kamelamela here and so I would
like to do that. To enter into Executive Session, I need a motion referring us to
Executive Session.
It has been moved by Commissioner Hopkins and seconded by Commissioner
Galimba.
I was about to explain what the purpose was.
MS. TODD: Okay, thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: The purpose of going into Executive Session would be to, we
have two communications 1.7 and 1.8, so we would consider those pursuant to
Section 92-5A(4) of the HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes). Also for the purpose of
consulting with our Commission's attorney on questions and issues pertaining to
the Commission's powers, duties, privileges, immunities and liabilities. We will
need a two-thirds vote to hold such a meeting. Any other discussion on the
motion?
Mr. Hopkins moved to enter into Executive Session in
order to hold attorney-client privilege discussion
regarding Communications 1.7 and 1.8, as authorized by
Section 92-5(a)(4) of the Hawai`i Revised Statutes.
Seconded by Ms. Galimba and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamann,
Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer,
Todd, and Zelko-Schlueter
Chair Adams -- 11.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
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1-lawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
CHR. ADAMS: So with no objections we are going to exit Executive Session so
boom. So let's take a recess and reconfigure ourselves for open session.
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Let's turn this on and call this back to order. Call the
Commission back to order. I would note for the record that Commissioner
Galimba had to go so I have to continue to remember when we have a vote. We
have a couple of Commissioners that have a question regarding the disposition of
the documents that were provided to us during Executive Session.
Communications 1.7 and 1.8. Let me see if I get this correctly, individuals would
like, there's a couple of different things. Individuals would like to either take
them to read them, so maybe that is the first question. Let's answer that. My
understanding is that as they are currently configured we would not do that or has
that been done in the past in other venues?
MR. HENRICKS: Just on the sheer question of taking them with you and their
transportability, it is more of an internal thing just to protect the documents if, you
know, you guys are adults if you decide—you say I am going to take this with me.
We are not going to stop you, so, 1 don't know if that should be a...
CHR. ADAMS: From an internal control thing though, I would be inclined to say
no, let's not do that as a matter of process. I would rather that we change the
disposition, the character of the documents that way we don't have a question
about how things get out and all of that kind of stuff.
Commissioner Todd.
MS. TODD: Yeah having reviewed both legal opinions, my preference would be
to vote to make them public because I don't see anything in there that the public
shouldn't be able to read. That's you know, my opinion. And...
CHR. ADAMS: So is that a motion so that we can continue to have this
conversation?
MS. TODD: I move to make both opinions public.
CHR. ADAMS: Both Communication 1.7 and 1.8.
MS. TODD: Both Communication 1.7 and 1.8.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second?
MR. BERGIN: Second.
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Todd and seconded by
Commissioner Bergin that Communication 1.7 and Communication 1.8 be
available...what is the correct term here? I mean they are currently confidential
in terns of attorney client privilege.
MR. HENRICKS: Waive your privilege and waive confidentiality. Is that good
Mr. Yoshimoto?
MR. YOSHIMOTO: And make it a public document.
CHR. ADAMS: And make it a public document. Okay, so, the motion is to take
1.7 and 1.8, waive the privilege and confidentiality and make both of those
documents public documents. Now discussion.
Commissioner Todd.
MS. TODD: Because the opinions, the communications to me go to the heart of
why you would or you would not propose a particular amendment to the Charter,
I think that it is important to make them available both to the public including the
Council Members because right now it is given to us and eventually the Council I
think when we send these recommendations over to them, should have that as part
of the record too. And by the way, I just want to note that the origin of having
documents put back in an envelope and given back to Corporation Counsel was
that at one point the County Council had leaks where right after Executive
Session either Council Members or Council Staff Members were leaking
documents about settlement agreements to the media and so this got instituted so
that we couldn't prevent people from doing verbal stuff but we could prevent the
actual discussion documents from being disseminated.
CHR. ADAMS: And I would, well, I better not say that. Do you have anything
else Commissioner Todd?
MS. TODD: No.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: I am in favor of this one because there is one of the ones there
with suggestions on language and other things that we may want to use and how
do I get back to that and make sure that I use that language if I don't have a copy
of it. I am sorry my brain is, I am not that young anymore. I don't memorize four
paragraph, four sentence long paragraphs very well, so my preference is let's just
put it out in the open.
CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Yoshimoto.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
Vote on Motion To
Waive Privilege and
Confidentiality and
Make Public
Communications 1.7
And 1.8 and Supple-
Ments to Communi-
Cations Public
(Approved)
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Just a procedural matter. So, there were some supplements
to these communications so it is just to make clear that the motion includes those
supplements.
MS. TODD: Yes it does.
CHR. ADAMS: And the second as well?
MR. BERGIN: Yes.
CHR. ADAMS: And the second as well does?
MR. BERGIN: Yes.
Commissioner Todd moved to waive privilege and confidentiality and make
Communications 1.7 and 1.8 and supplements to those Communications
public. Seconded by Commissioner Bergin and carried by the following voice
vote:
Commissioners Bergin, Galirnba, Hamann, Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing,
Springer, Todd, and Zelko-Schlueter
Chair Adams —11.
Excused: None.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
CHR. ADAMS: Any other discussion? Seeing none, I would call for the, I would,
well, let's vote on the motion.
I don't want to call for the question because that's a separate 'notion. Let's vote
on the motion.
All in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye. Any opposed?
The vote is 10-0 in favor of the motion with Commissioner Galimba absent,
excused. I think that answers the question that you might have had and resolves
the question that you might have had.
MS. RICE: Yes, thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright. Moving on with our agenda. We would now move into
Unfinished Business. I would note Item one as Communication No. 3 Formation
of Ad Hoc Committees. You might recall that we have included this as a part of
our agenda in case there is a desire by Commissioner or with the Commission to
form ad hoe committees. Seeing no one rushing to do so, let's move on into New
Business.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
Item No. 2 Communication No. 10 is Review of the Hawaii County Charter and
this is the Articles XI through XVI, the remainder of the Charter.
So starting with Section, starting with Article XI, Initiative and Referendum,
again I would just remind you that what we do here is that this is the time when
we have the opportunity to go through in a—it's not necessarily say a line by
line but if necessary we can do that. This is where we have a chance to look at the
entire Charter. So we have done I through X and now we are starting with Article
XI.
Are there any comments on Article XI? Seeing none, let's move on to Article
XII, Removal of Elected Officers. This has a couple of Chapters so let's take
Chapter one, any comments or questions or discussion on Chapter one?
MR. HOPKINS: Mr. Chairman.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: I was wondering on here is this the appropriate section to talk
about disciplining errant officers or elected officers? I mean we have had some
things. I don't know whether it belongs there you know we have had questions
about Council Members not fulfilling their obligations that some people feel is
obligations, where does that belong and I am not sure where it belongs. So that is
just my question.
CHR. ADAMS: I am actually finding myself unable to answer that question and I
will tell you why. I think that you, that as a matter of clarity, we see that Chapter
one talks about recall procedures and Chapter two talks about impeachment. The
idea of their being some additional disciplinary actions that would be available to
hypothetically to the Council, the County Council, currently is not seen in the
Charter if I am reading the Charter correctly and therefore is something that the
County Council would, it is not prevented that the Council take that up. The
Council can always have that included themselves if it is something that would be
desired to be included into the Charter then this is a potential section. The idea of
having it in the County Council roles and responsibilities or functions is another
potential section.
I think that that is for whoever would decide, whichever Commissioner would
decide to propose such a ballot amendment to make an initial determination and
then we could have that conversation. I probably said more than I really wanted
to there. It is really kind of up to the Commissioner who would pursue this.
MR. HOPKINS: No. I understand what you are saying, that it is up to the
Commissioner, but I am not a legal person okay and what I am wondering is, 1 am
just asking if I was wanting to make, and I am not saying that I am, but if I was
wanting to make it, does it belong in this section or does it belong back... because
it has been a topic that has been brought up. Which section would be most
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
appropriate and I would like a comment from our legal counsel on that. Where
might be most appropriate if we decided we were going to do it.
CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Yoshimoto.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: My opinion is it would probably be better in the Section
dealing with the Council Members and not with the removal because this
specifically deals with removal so if you are looking at language similar to
Oahu's Charter where it basically authorizes that the Council Members can .. .
may suspend without pay for more than one month any member for disorderly or
contemptuous behavior in its presence and blah, blah, blah, so to answer your
question, probably in the Section where it deals with the Council Members. I
think it is in Article III.
MR. HOPKINS: Thank you. I don't have any preference one way or the other, I
was just wanting to make it where it made the most sense because we were
talking about earlier today, removal was being by the Fire Commission, was being
said that they, that was part of, they also had the authority for discipline, so I
just... the reason why— my question followed along that line of logic.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: So if I may, so for the record, that would be Article III,
under the Legislative Branch, County Council. And it would probably go under
one of the Sections in there.
MR. HOPKINS: Yeah.
MR. HENRICKS: Chair Adams may I make a general comment on that question
of where things go or don't go?
CHR. ADAMS: Yes.
MR. HENRICKS: Very quickly, when you think about your ideas, and you are
not certain, feel free to —and we will work with you on that, to find at least
initially the best place for that to be located and then through discussion it may be
determined that there is a better place, but we will help with that so I think it is
mainly for you guys to focus on what, as much specifically as possible you want
to see how the Charter changes, send us the idea we will call, we will discuss, we
will email and then we will find a good location for it. A proper location I should
say.
MR. HOPKINS: Thank you.
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah. Absolutely.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Roehrig.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MR. ROEHRIG: Can we come back to that issue or are we going to have a
procedural problem? You're talking about putting the discipline in somewhere in
the Charter?
CHR. ADAMS: So we are going to, we will have an opportunity, It is on the
agenda to talk about Sections or Articles I through X.
MR. ROEHRIG: Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: So if this is an issue that you would like to address at that time,
that is an opportunity in the general to talk about it.
MR. ROEHRIG: Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Zelko.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Well I just wanted to, 1 agree with J and I think
under Article III which is that Council, there is a Section 3.5 which talks about
removal of Council Members and I think it would probably be most appropriate
there.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: I just want to comment that during Chair Person Poindexter's
testimony, censure of to address the situation they have now was something that
they, she specifically asked us to look into.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Todd.
MS. TODD: I am kind of lost but 1 am not sure if we are open to discuss Section
12-1.7 on ballots and the reason is that I am looking at the language in Section 11-
7 which is on Petitions to do amendments you know initiated by the public where
a non -vote in 11-7(a) a non -vote where there is no response shall not be counted
affirmatively or negatively, where as in Section 12-17.
CHR. ADAMS: Is that 1-7?
MS. TODD: Yeah, 12-1.7, the language is different, so in that case, my
assumption is that non -votes are essentially no votes and don't count towards a
yes, so only those who are affirmatively vote a yes on the recall would count.
And the reason is what you determine a majority of the votes is.
CHR. ADAMS: Right. So you are drawing...
MS. TODD: So 1 am drawing a comparison between the two and I want some
clarity in 12-1.7 on recall. My assumption is that this means, it says a majority of
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
the electors qualified to vote, that those who do not vote count as a no vote.
Cause the numbers like if you have a 100 people who are qualified to vote and
only 60 actually vote on it and of that 60, 40 vote yes, so is it 40 out of 100
qualified voters ? And that's the way I read this so that.
CHR. ADAMS: That's how I would read...
MS. TODD: So they don't get it whereas in the prior section 11-7 if you had a
100 qualified voters and only 60 voted and 40 voted yes, it becomes approved
which if I look at the two Sections it kind of bothers me that less than a majority
of the people qualified to vote could pass something. Cause you know a lot of
people if they don't know, you know, they just leave it blank and they don't
understand that their vote becomes a no vote, so I am just you know looking at
that language and saying or wondering whether there should be some consistency
because when it comes to constitutional amendments to the State Constitution it
becomes all whether you voted yes or no, so if you vote, if you leave it blank, it is
a no vote because they feel that you shouldn't approve Constitutional
Amendments by a minority of the people that are eligible to vote, just because a
lot of people left it blank because they didn't care. And so I am just looking at
that language and I will probably follow up on my own with Mr. Henricks and
Mr. Yoshimoto about a possible amendment to align it to be similar language.
MR. HENRICKS: I actually read those both to mean the same thing, both of
those sections that you need at least 51 votes either way to make something
happen. Cause I read...
MS. TODD: That is not how Section 11-7(a) has been interpreted in the past.
CHR. ADAMS: That's interesting.
MR. HENRICKS: It says that a no vote shall be a negative response. A non -vote
is not counted, so a majority you would need to have more yesses than nos.
MS. TODD: But of those that actually voted.
CHR. ADAMS: Of the votes.
MS. TODD: So out of 100 people who took ballots out that day, if only 60 voted
on the question under the petition section, then all you need is 31.
MR. HENRICKS: You are correct. It is a majority of those who voted.
MS. TODD: Yeah.
MR. HENRICKS: But both of those Sections provide for that.
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Hawai` i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MS. TODD: But the recall Section is different. The language in the recall
Section is silent as to what happens to a non -vote.
MR. HENRICKS: Okay
MS. TODD: And so, the way I read that, because it says a majority of the electors
qualified to vote, then the way I interpret that is a non -vote is a no.
MR. HENRICKS: Should we start by asking our Election Administrator, Pat
Nakamoto?
MS. TODD: Yeah, we would like some clarification.
MR. HENRICKS: Sure, of course.
MS. TODD: We would like some clarity on how those are interpreted.
MR. HENRICKS: For 12-1.7 in particular because 11-7 seems pretty clear. It is
actually written more clearly I think. Do you agree?
MS. TODD: Uh-huh.
MR. HENRICKS: But we need some clarification from our Election's
Administrator on how do they, how would they view and give them a
hypothetical, if there is a 100 votes...
MS. TODD: I took a 100 because it was an easy number.
MR. HENRICKS: Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. We will get that to you folks.
CHR. ADAMS: If I may just continue on that. Just because I think it is relevant.
So Section 12-1.6 in B(1) and B(2), actually kind of muddies the waters a little bit
more for me because 12.17 if 1 was looking at this, it would seem to me that a
majority of the electors qualified to vote would be registered voters and so we
know that we get some lesser percentage than registered voters that are typically
voting. Yet, if I go to 12-1.6 B(1) for example, it is actually a, there is the
percentage talking about the valid votes cast in the last election and that is
potentially a different number than...
MS. TODD: Yes it is.
CHR. ADAMS: What is in 12-1.7, so I just would, I would just note that I think
there are some inconsistency here and I would ask that when we have the
conversation with our Elections official maybe we get some clarity.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
Are there any... oh, just because I don't know, Section 12-1.3 where it talks about
signers of a recall petition and there is an indicator that they should add their last
four digits of their social security number on said petition, is that a valid
requirement? In other words, is there anything that has been passed federally that
we are aware of that is saying Nah we shouldn't be using social security numbers
anymore?
MR. HENRICKS: I'll ask our Elections official.
CHR. ADAMS: Thanks. Anything else in Chapter one of Article XII? Chapter
two having to do with impeaclunent. Anybody have anything on that? I would
just make the comment, I had circled in my own the not less than two percent of
registered voters being necessary for the charges if done by voters and so I just
wanted to, I went and checked in other areas, you know in other jurisdictions that
the percentages actually are pretty wide. It is a wide spectrum. We are not
necessarily out of the norm with this particular percentage. There are those that
have a lot more and those that have a little less, so just to make that comment.
Commissioner Todd.
MS. TODD: Yeah, I would say that I have ambivalent feelings about the section
on unpeachment and one is you don't want to make the bar so high that people
who feel they have a legitimate beef can't get a petition together. On the other
hand, is two percent so low that you end up with frivolous impeachment
proceedings because I actually went through this where because we were
accepting federal funds for marijuana eradication guys filed impeachment
proceedings against some of us and you know and they were you know the Court
ended up throwing it out but you know the bar seemed kind of low. Either that or
there was just enough people who wanted to smoke pakalolo.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins
MR. HOPKINS: Along the same lines, but 1 am just wondering, it appears to be
relatively low but how many actual impeachment processes have taken place over
let's say the last five years, ten years, yours I remember, I do remember that but
nothing else is corning to mind. But I don't pay that close attention so, maybe our
Counsel, can you remember? Do we have anything else other than that one?
MR. YOSHIMOTO: No.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Todd.
MS. TODD: I think the only other time that I can think of and I can't, and I
apologize for not being able to remember whether it was a recall or an
impeachment. I think it was a recall. It was City and County when back before it
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
was non-partisan and guys got elected and right after being elected changed
parties and that prompted a petition but other than that it has been few and far
between in terms of bringing that. And part of that is, you see with the two year
term, by the time you file and get the signatures together, and file it with the Court
and actually going to Court, you run through the two years because very seldom is
one started right upon elections and then if that person is re-elected it kind of
makes the whole impeachment proceedings moot because they are no longer
being impeached under that first election, they have been elected under the second
one, so maybe it is not a big issue because it doesn't happen that often.
CHR. ADAMS: Any other comments on Chapter two or Article XII? Alright,
moving on to Article XIII, General Provisions, Commissioner Bergin?
MR. BERGIN: Yeah, I have been waiting for a quiet moment. As we make these
moments from Section to Chapters, if somebody could kindly announce what
page we are going to because that would really cut down on the amount of page
flipping that goes on.
CHR. ADAMS: Absolutely.
MR. BERGIN: So, page number?
CHR. ADAMS: We are on page 51.
MR. BERGIN: Got you. That was just where I was at but most times I am not.
Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: I did have a question regarding -----this is on page 52. Regarding
Section 13-1(f)(9), it says, and this has to do with vacancies, so these are
definitions and it has to do with vacancy and it says "any elective office shall be
vacant on the happening of any one of the following events before expiration of
the term." On nine it talks about upon filing nomination papers for another
elective office if the term of the office sought begins before the end of the term of
the office held. My question is the different timing that comes from County
offices and State offices. Now because this is a County Charter, is it correct to
assume that this only refers to County offices?
Unknown: Yes.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay.
MS. TODD: If it is only County offices that it is referring to, that needs to be
clarified because the way I read it, if the term on the County Council ends on the
first Monday of December and if you are running for State Representative or State
Senate, upon election, I believe your term starts the day after the election, right?
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MR. YOSH1MOTO: That's my understanding as far as the State, yes.
MS. TODD: And so, in effect, right now we currently have a Council Member
right, who is running for State Senate, Mr. Kanuha.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Yes.
MS. TODD: Now, if elected on November 6th, the way this language reads, his
position becomes vacant on November 7th. Is that, am 1 correct?
CHR. ADAMS: Assuming he is elected to the State Senate.
MS. TODD: 1 said if he is elected.
CHR. ADAMS: Yeah. Right. Can't hold two positions. I don't care...
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Right. You can't.
MS. TODD: And the question I had is that this says "upon filing"... the
nomination papers.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: It says "upon filing" you're right.
MS. TODD: If the term of the office sought begins before the end of the term of
the office held, and so, theoretically, because the State, and 1 don't think that was
the intent, it was really more at ...when you were in the middle of a four year
terrn and you wanted to run for another—your Mayor for four years, cause let's
face it, this language originates out of the State Constitution. It was the Frank
Fasi amendment. It was to prevent the Mayor from being Mayor for four years
and after two years running for Governor and still remaining Mayor for the next
two years. That's the origin of almost all of this language. I don't think it was
intended for...
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Right.
MS. TODD: The Council, but when I am looking at it, the term of the Senate
starts...
MR. YOSHIMOTO: So, I agree with your interpretation. That is what it says,
but there might be a State statute that supersedes our County Charter, so we will
have to check on that. Because the literal reading says what it says, so.
MS. TODD: And I feel badly about being the one to bring this up you know?
CHR. ADAMS: Actually 1 brought it up, so don't feel bad.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MS. TODD: Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: Yeah. That's----- and actually that was the, that was actually what
came to mind when I was looking at this. So then I wanted to make sure. I mean
if, in either case, it would seem that it would be useful to clarify it so that there
isn't any confusion.
MS. TODD: I rnight say that historically, this is actually an amendment from
prior language that basically said you had to resign if you were running for any
other office, so we had that disastrous year where I think three Council Members
decided to run for Mayor and even though the Mayor's tern didn't start until the
end of the Council Member's tern, they all had to resign.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: When was that? I am sorry, what?
MS. TODD: That was the year Keiko Bonk ran for Mayor and we ended up
having three vacancies on the County Council because I think Mr. Rath might
have also run for Mayor that time and so there was a situation in which even
though... so that amendment got changed to try and prevent that scenario. This
language was meant to prevent a scenario of you having to resign when you
would be out of that office anyway, but I don't think there was a real examination
of things like the fact that there is a slight you know conflict in terns of the terns
between running for Council, or running for State office.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: So we will follow up and check and see because again,
there might be some HRS statute that supersedes our language here.
CHR. ADAMS: Which would be interesting because even if I take a look at,
correct me if I am wrong but, the way that the superiority of language runs, the
Charter generally supersedes HRS except when HRS is a... there's another tern
for that and so, I would be interested in that as well I think. Is making sure that
whatever that phrasing is. Okay.
Are there any other... 13 on page 53, 13-4 Boards and Commissions, it says at the
top "except as otherwise provided in this Charter, all boards and commissions
specifically established by this charter shall be governed by the following
provisions." I just wanted to check when we think about Mayor advisory
councils, those therefore are not specifically established by the Charter so we
would find them not covered by Section 13-4?
MR. HENRICKS: That is correct.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you.
MS. TODD: Same language as the State Constitution...
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CHR. ADAMS: Section 13-24 which is on page 58. This is a waiver of Charter
provisions. Has this ever been done? Is this still important? So you know this
allows essentially by ordinance to say that a part of the Charter can be waived for
a period of time and I guess it is having to do with what federal, usually federal
grant in aid or another federal allotment of money which I guess it makes sense
because we don't want our Charter to be... if we are going to come up with some
big amount of money. But this is a way out I guess, for us to get federal money if
there is a need. Okay.
Commissioner Todd did you have something?
MS. TODD: No.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Anything else in Article XIII? Article XIV, Code of
Ethics? I may have mentioned this before that I had the opportunity to speak to
the Board of Ethics at one of their meetings. We had a nice conversation and that
is essentially what it was. For the record regarding some of the things that they
were concerned about, they have not as far as I know, provided us with any
specific writings that they have approved as a body regarding this particular
Article and if anything is presented it will be something that comes from a
Commissioner. Okay.
Article XV, Charter Amendment or Revision? Seeing no comments, Article XVI,
Charter Amendment or Revision, I am son -y, my mistake. Yeah, we were still on
XV. I had an additional page on here. Let me make sure there wasn't anything
else.
Yes, I am sorry, back to Article XV, my apologies, Section 15-2 and Section 15-
3, both are on page 63, it talks about, in 15-2 it talks about, the third line from the
bottom of that paragraph I guess, the publication in a daily newspaper of general
circulation. And then when we go down to Section 15-3, it talks about publishing
in at least two daily newspapers of daily circulation. I wonder about the
difference and whether or not that is helpful particularly given the way
newspapers have been declining. The print media has been declining. Having a
requirement for two daily newspapers may be a concern and frankly whether or
not the two dailies that we talk about on this island are actually two separate
newspapers is up for question anyway. That may be something that we can clean
up on 15-3.
I also would ask, for some reason I made this comment... so in 15-3, there is the
small paragraph that talks about "members of the Commission shall hold office
until the amendments or Charter is ratified or rejected." And I just wonder
whether or not that applies to 15-2. In other words, 15-1 and 15-2 are designed to
have amendments or revisions submitted not as a part of the every ten year
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
Charter review. I am answering my question as I look at it. There is no
Commission so it doesn't really matter. Okay.
Or actually I am sorry, it has to do with "if the majority of the vote"... it is the last
paragraph on 15-3 if I go long enough and talk long enough I confuse myself too.
"If the majority of the voters voting upon a charter amendment votes in favor of it
or a new charter if a new charter is proposed, the amendment or new charter shall
become effective at the time fixed in the amendment or charter." This is only in
15-3. It only refers therefore in this particular section. There is nothing that I am
seeing in 15-2 or 15-1 is the assumption that that particular effective time applies
though to 15-2 and 15-1?
MR. HENRICKS: The voting requirements for all Charter amendments are also
specified in Chapter 50 of the Hawai`i Revised Statutes. That is my
understanding.
CHR. ADAMS: And the effective time, because really that is what that is about
not voting.
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, time is usually upon approval or unless otherwise
stated. That's' generally held.
CHR. ADAMS: So the HRS covers that?
MR. HENRICKS: That's my understanding. For ordinances that are like you
said, outside of this 15-3, we follow Chapter 50 of the HRS.
CHR. ADAMS: Right but this is a Charter amendment not an ordinance.
MR. HENRICKS: No, no, but those ordinances create as opposed to how you
folks do things, the Council uses ordinances to propose Charter amendments.
CHR. ADAMS: Right. Right.
MR. HENRICKS: So for those versions of Charter amendments, it is the same
voting requirements that are listed in 15-3 except that they are provided for in
Chapter 50 of the Hawai`i Revised Statutes.
CHR. ADAMS: Thanks.
MR. HENRICKS: Sure.
MS. RICE: I have a question.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice.
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MS. RICE: Back to 15.2, I wonder because this was written quite a while ago, if
we shouldn't consider the County website for publication also since these are
really important issues. Or some other electronic means of publicizing it.
CHR. ADAMS: It's listed actually as one of the last items in 15-2 where it talks
about an electric medium such as the internet.
MS. RICE: Oh, great. Okay. I missed that. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Article XVI, Transitional Provisions? Alright, not seeing
anyone having any items for comment, so that would be then our review of the
Charter and item two based on Communication No. 10, Articles XI -XVI. Okay.
Moving on to Item three in New Business, Communication No. 11 which is any
discussion of Articles I -X. Commissioner Rice?
MS. RICE: Yes, I found after doing a little more homework an answer to my
question. My question was concerning the tern of the various department heads
that are appointed by the Mayor and there is, I think it was Article V, it says that
they are co -terminus with the Mayor, so that answered my question. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Thanks. Commissioner Roehrig did you want to address
Article III at this point?
MR. ROEHRIG: Ahhh?
CHR. ADAMS: We were talking I think, it had to do with you were interested in
discussing the disciplinary issues.
MR. ROEHRIG: Mr. Hopkins was...
CHR. ADAMS: The answer can always be "not at this time."
MR. ROEHRIG: Not at this time. I forgot already. Excuse me. We were going
to put in discipline besides...I didn't raise it, somebody else did.
CHR. ADAMS: The question carne up and then we did have a little bit more of a
conversation but the question is whether or not when we were looking at the
Article XII, Removal of Elected Officers, whether or not it would be appropriate
to talk about the disciplinary issues at that time and I said why don't we consider
it in Item three. So, Item three is where we are at right now and Article III just
coincidentally just happens to be the Article.
MR. ROEHRIG: Okay. No.
CHR. ADAMS: Any other Items in Articles I -X? I should say that it is my
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
inclination that we figure out a way to have Articles I -XVI included in the agenda
so we can continue to have any conversations that may come up and we are just,
the staff is figuring out what is the best way for us to do that so that we maintain
our Sunshine Law responsibilities as well.
MS. RICE: I agree.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Saquing.
MS. SAQUING: I would like to go back to Section 3-18, Office of the
Legislative Auditor. 1 believe, I have notes to revise that to County, did we have
discussion on that already?
MS. RICE: No. We haven't discussed it.
CHR. ADAMS: So if you would like to...
MS. SAQUING: Make a proposal?
CHR. ADAMS: You can definitely make a proposal.
MS. SAQUING: Okay. Done.
CHR. ADAMS: Anything else? Then we will move on to Item four in New
Business. Communication No. 12, which the purpose of this is to have a
discussion on the scheduling of our six island -wide public hearings as required
pursuant to Section 15-3 Hawaii County Charter. Let me just start this
conversation briefly. When we were looking at the timing of our public hearings,
we have had some brief discussions. It is my inclination but that is merely what it
is, to try and have these public hearings as close together as possible as opposed
to having like one one week, and another one another week and all of that. The
idea being that we can establish essentially a two week window or so, a two and a
half window that allows us to get three done on one side of the island and maybe
three done on the other side of the island. You know when they are going to be
and we work those out right?
These are different of course than our regularly scheduled meetings where we are
already meeting one month here, one month on the Kona side. These are the
requirements that we go to the six districts that are identified or combine districts
that are identified in the Charter. We are looking at currently the late
February/early March time period for these. We feel that that gives us enough
time to try and get through the process of developing proposals that can then be
publicized and folks can then come and talk to us about and also at the same time
then take whatever feedback that has been provided and do whatever work is
necessary as a result of that feedback before we have to turn this, turn the final
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
product in to the Council by the end ofJune, close to the end ofJune, almost the
end of June. So, having said that, the floor is open for Commissioners to indicate
if they have any particular druthers on this or if you are just going to... apparently
you are not going to just let us do it.
MS. RICE: No, I like it.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: My druthers would be late March instead of late February to
mid-March because I am going to be gone for three weeks starting late February
through mid-March so, but if the Committee decides, the Commission decides to
do otherwise, that is up to the Commission. Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: Thanks. Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: Either of those time periods is okay with me. I like the idea of
grouping the public hearings because that gives us time to digest what we have
heard and finish up, give us more time to finish up.
CHR. ADAMS: Anyone on this side? I see two lights on. I am just wondering
whether or not, so Commissioner Saquing and Commissioner Todd are...
Commissioner Bergin?
MR. BERGIN: I appreciate the compact scheduling and late March would be fine
as long as we don't disrupt St. Patrick's Day, I am going to be okay. That will
work.
MS. SPRINGER: I have a question. How important is it for all of us to attend
these public hearings?
CHR. ADAMS: So I think if we go back in time and look at previous Charter
Commissions we will find that not every Commissioner was at every one of these
public hearings. However, having said that, I think it is very important that each
of us tries to make each of these public hearings. This is the opportunity, the
public has opportunities all the time but we are going in to their neighborhood and
so, that is part of the process, of all of the democratic parts of this process that is
probably the most democratic element.
MS. SPRINGER: Okay thank you. I guess I was just trying to take the burden off
of Commissioner Hopkins in case you know we had to plan something, that
maybe we could schedule whatever in his district for when he is back.
CHR. ADAMS: Thanks Commissioner Springer. Alright so based on the
conversation that we have had here, we will continue to have a conversation with,
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
Recess:
Reconvene:
dialog with the staff on this and we will come back with some specific dates as we
get closer in the next couple of months.
Go ahead. Do you have something that you would like to add?
MR. HENRICKS: No. Not at all.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. For the record I was asking Mr. Henricks if he had
something that he wanted to add and for the record he said no. We will come
back with some dates and see if these will be acceptable. Okay. How is
everybody doing? Alright? Keep on going? Okay, let's take a recess for ten
minutes and come back together at 3:30 p.m.
At 3:20, the Chair called for a recess.
The meeting reconvened at 3:34 p.m.
CHR. ADAMS: Let's call our, let's return from recess. We are now currently on
Item number five in New Business. Communication No. 13 which transmitted
Charter Amendment one, a Proposal to Amend Various Sections of the Charter to
Rephrase Language Related to District Residency Requirements.
So we actually have in front of us an opportunity to figure out how we do this
when we get one of these things. So I am going to be relying on our staff here for
some assistance. So I have this thing that you gave me. Okay. New Business,
CA -1, that's it.
So let me just ask a question. So I see the part here about moving it. Is that the
initial motion? To have a conversation about this, is that what we have to start
with?
MR. HENRICKS: That will get it on the floor.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, the Chair relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Zelko-Schlueter
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. I would ask for the purposes of this particular item on the
agenda, I would ask the Vice -Chair to assume Chairmanship on the Commission.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Can you hear me?
CHR. ADAMS: Yes.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: It was your amendment. Your proposal. Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: I would like to make a motion Madam, Chair.
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Do I have a second?
CHR. ADAMS: Let me just make the motion first. So, the motion is to forward
CA -1 to first reading.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Do I have a second? Did I have a second? Okay, so
Commissioner Rice seconded and now we can open it up for discussion.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If I may Madam, Chair. Alright so we have CA -1.
It is very small. It's like two pages right. Does everybody have it? Okay.
Alright, so in the proposal the first page, page one of two, see the way this works
is that we have the communication which is the page on top, the cover page if you
will, that is Communication No. 13 and then page one of two, page one identifies
the Commissioner who is making the proposal, in this case Adams. Number two,
it says list the Charter provisions to be deleted or amended, you will notice in this
particular case there is many sections that are affected and then a brief description
which is this refers to the phrasing in the Charter that I have been having
difficulties with "one member shall be a resident of each Council district." That
kind of basic phrasing. Which is impossible. Right? One person can't be a
member of each Council district. Not the way we do that.
So the current phrase, what I have said here is the current phrasing is nonsensical,
the proposed amendment fixes the phrasing to clarify that each district shall elect
and be represented by one of the nine Council Members with similar rephrasing
of language for boards and commissions that use district residency requirements.
Alright, so what we have done is we have added together, or we have combined
the phrasing that is slightly different, one for the members of the County Council
and members of boards and commissions that are part of districts. We have used
phrasing that is consistent for both to replace the current nonsensical phrasing.
Item four talks about the proposal based on a provision in the Charter a law of
anther jurisdiction. This case not applicable and Item five on this is if the
proposal is based on any written material you should have, please attach a copy of
that citation, which there was not.
Then page two actually provides the text, so we would be amending Section 3-2
to read there shall be a County Council composed of nine members. There shall
be nine Council districts each of which shall be represented by a member. That
would be the replacement language for one member shall be elected from each of
the nine districts. Then Item two amends Section 3-17(c) to read, each
subsequent redistricting commission shall consist of nine members. Each
member shall be a resident of a separate Council district. And that replaces one
member shall be a resident of each Council district. And then Item three amends
the following Sections which are associated with boards and commissions to
replace each instance of one member shall be a resident of each Council district
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
with each member shall be a resident of a separate Council district. The purpose
of this is to take the wording as it currently exists which in my opinion doesn't
mean anything and replace it with something which the intent of the initial
language, the original language was to say each district is going to be represented
by an individual and that is what is designed to be said but that is not what it says
so that is what this particular proposal is designed to do.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Go ahead.
MS. SAQUING: Thank you. I know sorry. It is like automatic reflex.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: With my karaoke microphone.
MS. SAQUING: So I just, I think this is wordsmithing, but I want to look at and
have a discussion each member shall be a resident of a separate Council district.
So, could that, when I read that, I like the each Council district cause there's
separate... I might have to talk myself through this. Hang on a second. So we
have multiple districts and a member shall be a representative of each of those
separate districts. Is that the intent of what you are trying to propose?
CHR. ADAMS: I am not sure I quite... the idea is that each Council district will
be...
MS. SAQUING: Represented...
CHR. ADAMS: Well, yes. Represented by someone on that board and
commission.
MS. SAQUING: Okay. I guess when I am reading separate, it could be each
member shall be a resident of a separate, so how do you delineate what the
separate is as opposed to, I like each Council district because you are really
defining the Council district as opposed to a separate Council district. Am I
making sense? So I could be a Council, I could represent the South Hilo district
as one district and Kit could come in and be a representative from the South Hilo
district as well because he's... never mind, I think I just answered my own
question.
CHR. ADAMS: So for the purposes of this, the idea that each member, I
understand where you are going with this and maybe phrasing wise distinct,
separate and distinct may be a better fix as opposed to just separate.
MS. SAQUING: I like that.
CHR. ADAMS: That allows us to make sure that we are not talking about, I see
the potential harm with the current suggestion here. Okay.
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MS. SAQUING: Okay. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: Well I just have a question. You know I completely understand
that the current wording doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I am just wondering
what are the implications if we don't make the change or suggest the change?
MR. YOSHIMOTO: You know as a practical matter, this hasn't been an issue
because we know what the intent is right? So, I mean to answer your question.
Yeah.
MR. HOPKINS: Thank you.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: The Windward Planning Commission specifically asked us to correct
it as I recall.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Right, so yeah.
MS. RICE: So there are Commissions that would like it to be clarified.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: J, this isn't necessary to get this done is it? I mean it is going to
function whether the language is in there or not and it has been for years and
years.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Umm, most likely yes. I can't predict. I mean I have to give
you the legalese. I can't predict if someone will challenge the language and the
legality of, but you know the short answer is you know we have been operating
with what is the intent right.
MR. ROEHRIG: I am thinking that if this goes before the public and they
actually read this, they are going to ask what is the Commission doing, so I don't
think this is necessary. We should move on.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Saquing.
MS. SAQUING: Hi. I just had one suggestion. Perhaps it should read each
member shall be a resident of each separate Council district, so that really clarifies
one member for each separate Council district and that is all I have to say.
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: I think it is important. I think to the best of our ability when we see
something that's a little ambiguous and we have an opportunity to clarify it, we
should go ahead and do that.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Any other comments? Chair
Adams.
CHR. ADAMS: Well this is my motion. I would like, I am not sure how to do
this. We had, in the discussion we had a suggestion for amendment. I don't
know that I can amend my own motion necessarily. Can I? Alright. So then on
Item three, actually it would be Items two and three. So amending Section 3-17
where we say each member shall be a resident of a separate Council district and
on Item three where we say each member shall be a resident of a separate Council
district, I would like to amend that phrasing to include separate and distinct
Council district for both of those two.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Sony. Procedurally do we need a
second since he amended it? Okay, so can I get a second?
MS. RICE: I'll second.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. Commissioner Rice
seconded. Any discussion? Okay. Commissioner Rice?
MS. RICE: I would like to move that we accept the amended version as presented
for 3-2 and 3-17 and all...
MR. HENRICKS: We do have a motion on the floor to effectively do that. Chair
Adams.
MS. RICE: Oh I see because of his motion?
MR. HENRICKS: Correct. So what we have going right now is we have a main
motion on the floor which is to approve the amendment to move to first reading.
Chair Adams has made the motion to amend the wording as to be applied in Items
two and three to read "each member shall be a resident of a separate and distinct
Council district" to which you have seconded that motion. So, should that motion
be approved you will be back to the main motion as amended for your
consideration.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. Commissioner Hopkins.
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MR. HOPKINS: I would, my comment on this one is I am not sure, you know we
have had discussions before about housekeeping amendments and whether this
one is housekeeping or not, I don't want to get into a discussion, it could be
considered this because we have been operating for many years with this one, but
if we are going to be having things that are just changes that are really not
changing the way we have been doing things but it is a major change on this, are
we going to have housekeeping and if we are going to do housekeeping do we do
them all at one time or are we going to do them separate? It's just a question that
I have about procedure and the group needs to maybe think about that one.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yeah, the way I looked at this
particular one was actually less housekeeping because I think the way it is written
doesn't make sense. We know what the intent was but it doesn't make sense
which I think is different than if you had a word that maybe was popular back in
1960 something but not popular now or wouldn't mean the same thing. So I look
at it a little different but I understand what you are saying. Any other comments?
MR. YOSHIMOTO: I just want to talk this through to make sure we are saying
what we mean to say because now I am a little confused as to whether it is saying
something else. So could we read out loud what the amendment, Doug you made
the amendment right?
CHR. ADAMS: Item one which amends Section 3-2 the change is there shall be
nine Council districts each of which shall be represented by a member.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: That's okay I think.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Item two which amends Section 3-17(c) and refers to the
Redistricting Commission, each member shall be a resident of a separate and
distinct Council district.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Sorry. Commissioner Hopkins?
MR. HOPKINS: I understand a little bit on the clarification and I am wondering,
just a suggestion, is when we are saying this is like 2(c) says "each subsequent
redistricting commission shall consist of nine members, one from each of the
Council districts." It is just a little bit clearer to me on that one but you know I
understand what you are saying too. I personally don't think we need to be
adding separate and distinct. Separate implies distinct okay. But I don't want to
waste Commission time fighting over a few words like that.
CHR. ADAMS: Madam, Chair.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Oh yes, Chair Adams?
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CHR. ADAMS: To be honest with you. This is what we are going to be doing. I
don't think it is wasting time. It is trying to get it right. Precisely for the reasons
that Mr. Roehrig, Commissioner Roehrig talked about right? The idea is that
something is going to be presented to the voters and we want to be sure that it is
accurate.
So let me, if I may, have a brief...
MS. RICE: A quick. We have to be sure we include resident in any change.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yeah, that resident should be in
there. Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: As the saying goes if it's not broke, don't fix it.
CHR. ADAMS: I was going to finish up with Section... Mr. Yoshimoto? Did
you want me to finish up with Item three and how that would read or where are
we standing here? You are looking perplexed which is not necessarily a good
thing.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Well because the language just doesn't stand out as clear to
ine right and our job is to make it as clear and as simple as possible so if, that is
why I just want to talk this through and talk it out loud because it is not... we
know what we want to say right, that you just want to have each district have a
member appointed from each district. That's all we want to do right? I mean so,
the more words you use to describe something I think it gets a little more... I am
not saying I am right. I am just not comfortable with the language but I want to
hear from the Commission members. If it is clear, if this proposal is clear...
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Bergin.
MR. BERGIN: Commissioner Hopkins made a statement. It was brief. It was
clear but it lacked one word and that was resident and if you include that in, we
are cutting out a lot of verbiage and I don't know how you could be more clear
that that. Could you repeat that and insert resident?
MR. HOPKINS: Okay. Each, I am just reading... each shall consist of nine
members and I don't remember what I said.
MR. BERGIN: Okay. Each, a resident of you know one of the nine districts.
Cause the other wording you know you could actually double up and I think that
is what is happening in this particular area of Hilo.
MR. HOPKINS: Okay, I am trying to ----you could put in the term with each
district represented by one of its residents.
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MR. BERGIN: Yes. I wouldn't be too... excuse me. Go ahead.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Could you repeat that?
Commissioner Hopkins...
MR. HOPKINS: I was just putting in after the members "with each district
represented by one of its residents."
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Or each district being represented by
MR. HOPKINS: By a resident.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: By a resident.
MR. HOPKINS: Yeah, I don't like that one either.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: You gotta talk it out. You gotta talk it out.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Rice?
MS. RICE: I think in that case we have switched the subject and the object of the
sentence so by making the district the subject then we have clarified that we are
talking about the districts and that each district shall have a single member.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Right. Which is what we want right?
MS. RICE: Yes.
MR. HENRICKS: I have an offering. I am looking at Chair Adams because you
know this is his motion and your amendment. "Each of the nine Council districts
shall be represented by a resident appointed from that district."
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Saquing?
MS. SAQUING: I like it.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Chair Adams.
CHR. ADAMS: This would refer to Items two and item three?
MR. HENRICKS: Slightly differently worded for Item two to account for the
language that says "as established by the previous redistricting commission." So
that would follow. There would be a comma after district with that language
included.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
CHR. ADAMS: Right and then in Item three because that sentence needs to stand
on its own because what is in front of it is different in those various sections, it
does stand on its own. But this does not affect Item one which is specifically
about the Council. That wording is the same.
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah. So we are, the amendment right now is omitting Item
one. It is only dealing with two and three so...
CHR. ADAMS: That's correct.
MR. HENRICKS: So that would only pertain to Items two and three.
CHR. ADAMS: Right. So I would withdraw, if allowed I would withdraw my
amendment and substitute the wording that was provided to us by Mr. Henricks as
another amendment. That would require the second however to agree to that.
She's the second.
MS. RICE: I'll withdraw my second.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay so Commissioner Hopkins
seconded? Could we have it read again for all of the Commissioners?
MR. HENRICKS: So where we are at right now, the Chair has recognized the
withdrawal of the motion to amend, correct?
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yes.
MR. HENRICKS: Okay. So Chair Adams would like to make a different motion
to amend which would amend Items two and three in CA -1 to provide the
following language for Item two: "Each of the nine Council districts shall be
represented by a resident appointed from that district, as established by the
previous redistricting commission." Item three would read: "Each of the nine
Council districts shall be represented by a resident appointed from that district."
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay so it's been seconded and it
is open for discussion.
MR. HENRICKS: Who made the second please for that motion in particular?
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Rice.
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MS. RICE: I think it gets the job done. I think it clarifies it,
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay, well seeing no further
comments I think we can... oh, J?
MR. YOSHIMOTO: So, just to clarify, so we are good on two and three right?
CHR. ADAMS: We were always good on one.
MR. HENRICKS: One is not on the table right now.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Oh, one is not on the table? I will talk about one after, so
just vote is just on two and three?
Vote on Motion The motion to amend CA -1 Items two and three to provide the following
To Amend CA -1 language for Item two: "each of the nine Council districts shall be represented by
cApproved): a resident appointed from that district, as established by the previous redistricting
commission." Item three would read: "each of the nine Council districts shall be
represented by a resident appointed from that district.", was carried by the
following voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hainan, Rice, Saquing, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams -7
Noes: Commissioners Hopkins and Roehrig-2
Absent: Conunissioner Todd -1
Excused: Commissioner Galimba-1
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Correct. Okay. So all in favor of
the amendment as read by Mr. Henricks, please signify by saying aye. Anyone
opposed? Okay, we do have one opposed. Commissioner Roehrig, and one
abstaining.
MR. HOPKINS: Can I abstain and not vote?
CHR. ADAMS: I don't think that is allowed under our rules.
MR. HOPKINS: I was going to say, then it is a naye for me too. Even though I
seconded it.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. Then we should also note
that Commissioner Galimba is not here and Commissioner Leithead Todd.
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MR. HENRICKS: So, Madam Chair, you have seven votes in favor, two opposed
which would be Commissioner Hopkins and Commissioner Roehrig, and two
members absent, Commissioner Galimba and Commissioner Leithead Todd.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Correct.
MR. HENRICKS: So, the motion carries or is approved. Okay. So that would
put us back to the main motion to move CA -1 to first reading as amended.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. So we can open that up for
discussion again and I think Mr. Yoshimato had some comments.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Yes. We are talking about districts and you know members
being a part of that district so part of something that we could do is adding
something at the end of the proposed amendment so "there shall be nine council
districts each of which shall be represented by a member" and we could add after
member "who is a resident of that district" so it makes it clear that each...
CHR. ADAMS: I thought that was included already.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Was it included already?
CHR. ADAMS: Yeah.
MR. HENRICKS: It's under eligibility.
CHR. ADAMS: It's Section 3-3 Qualifications. The person must also be a
resident and registered voter of the district from which the person is to be elected
or appointed for at least 90 days immediately preceding the primary election or
appointment. Of course you could say it again but it is in 3-3.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Okay. Let's keep it simpler.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Bergin did you have
anything?
MR. BERGIN: No. Sorry.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Any other comments? Okay, then
we can go ahead and take a vote. All in favor of the motion please signify by
saying aye. Anyone opposed? Okay, so Commissioners Hopkins and Roehrig
opposed and Commissioner Galimba and Leithead Todd are absent. She stepped
out for a second.
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Vote on Motion
To Move CA -1, as
Amended, to
First Reading
(Approved):
Relinquish Chair:
Relinquish Chair:
The motion to move CA -1, as amended, to first reading was carried by the
following voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hamann, Rice, Saquing, Springer,
ZelkoSchlueter, and Chair Adams — 7
Noes: Commissioners Hopkins and Roehrig-2
Absent: Commissioner Todd -1
Excused: Commissioner Galimba-1
MR. HENRICKS: Okay, for procedural purposes, the proposal as amended will
move forward for first reading on November 9 and will be presented and properly
formatted as it would appear in full text amendments to the Charter.
At this time, the Acting Chair Zelko-Schlueter relinquished the chair to Chair
Adams.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Back to you.
CHR. ADAMS: Reclaiming my Chair position. Let's move on to Item six which
is Communication No. 14 transmitting CA -2 Proposal to Amend Section 3-7 to
Provide that the County Council Hold an Equal Number of its Regular Meetings
in East and West Hawai`i Within Each Calendar Year. I would ask Vice -Chair
Zelko to assume Chair at this time.
At this time, the Chair relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Zelko-Schlueter.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. So Chair Adams, you will
make the motion for the amendment?
CHR. ADAMS: I would. Thank you Vice -Chair Zelko. I would move to
forward CA -2 to first reading.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Do we have a second?
MS. RICE: Second
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Rice seconding and
we are now open for discussion.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you if I may, we have done this before so we know what
the covers is about. As we take a look at the first page, the Section that is to be
amended is Section 3-7, the proposed change, this change would recognize the
reality of current Council practice. We also had a conversation about this with
Chair Poindexter when the Chair came to speak with us and the change that is in
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
the text would be "County Council shall meet regularly at least twice every month
at such times and places as shall be established by rule of the Council. Provided
and the change would be "provided that within each calendar year the Council
shall hold an equal number of its regularly scheduled meetings in East Hawai`i
and West Hawai`i." and then the rest of the Section would be untouched by this
particular proposal.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: Thank you. East Hawai`i and West Hawai`i. I guess there are
some in Kona now. I think it should be broken down a little more. How about
Waimea? We are part of this island also. I think you should include North
Kohala, H5w1 and Kapa`au. I don't think anyone has ever gone out to have a
Council meeting out there and I would include Ka`u too. They are down south
and I don't think anyone goes down there so maybe there can be a little more
elaboration where every district can have a Council appear before them.
CHR. ADAMS: Is that an amendment?
MR. ROEHRIG: Yeah all that is an amendment. I am not sure how to word it
but...
MR. HOPKINS: First, did we have a second? Who seconded it?
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Rice.
MR. HOPKINS: Oh sorry, I didn't hear it. Okay. I did have a question on the
thing here and this is more for clarification.
CHR. ADAMS: Point of order. I think we have an amendment on the floor.
MR. HOPKINS: Amendments on the floor. Okay.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay so that's the question, so
there would have to be a second to that amendment? But I thought, are we still in
discussion though on this original motion?
MR. HENRICKS: So we are on the main motion to move CA -2 to first reading
and whenever you have a main motion it is always ripe for amendment so that is
not improper. But since we are not doing, we don't require that amendments be
provided in writing, as you can see with some of the rigmarole that we went
through with the last amendment... any amendment that is offered before it is
seconded or received by the Chair should be abundantly clear as to what we are
trying to accomplish.
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MR. HOPKINS: Excuse me. That is what my question was going to be. Could
we please have that motion be very clearly stated.
MR. ROEHRIG: Okay. I'll try. You folks help me. Excuse me. I move that the
meetings also a meeting occur in Waimea and one for maybe both Kapa'au and
Hawi, they are pretty close to each other and have one in Kali. Beside those in
Kona. So I don't know how that works out in numbers, so it would be, so there
would be one, two, there would be three and then the others would be divided
between Kona and Hilo. Does that make sense?
MR. HENRICKS: I don't mean to be an obstructionist. I understand where you
are coming from but the amendment that was drafted that we are looking at was
drafted with precision to account for the calendar year, equal number of regularly
scheduled meetings in two places, so very easy to mathematically accomplish
that. What you are suggesting is holding Council meetings in much more than
two locations so I would say quite frankly that perhaps we would want to take
some time and to write this out as an amendment so that, because it doesn't really
fit with what is offered right now. Which is where it was again crafted to deal
with holding an equal number of meetings. The word equal is a, you know,
involves fractions and it is not hard to do that when there is two locations, but I
don't know how many there are now. It sounds like six, maybe seven.
MR. ROEHRIG: Let me ask you, how many times a year does the Council meet?
Is it once a month? Once a month?
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Twice a month.
MR. ROEHRIG: Twice a month. Okay so, two times 12 I think is 24ish and so
one in Kali, one in North Kohala, one in Waimea, that is 21 left over, you divide
it between Kona and Hilo. So there would be 10 1/2 in each of those.
MR. HENRICKS: I don't speak against the motion. I speak to the fact that as
staff we are going to need to craft the amended version of this language. I feel
pretty confident that we are going to be able to do that very easily for what
happened for the first amendment because it was read into the record and it is a
simple concept but my concerns would be if this motion moves forward I would
really have no idea where to start to turn to create the amended version of this
proposal into what each one of you would believe just happened.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Mr. Yoshimoto. Yeah, actually,
Commissioner Leithead Todd.
MS. TODD: I speak against the proposed amendment for a number of reasons.
We currently have...
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MR. HENRICKS: I am so sorry. I am so sorry to stop you. There really isn't a
motion that is on the floor to amend yet because it...
MS. TODD: There was no second?
MR. HENRICKS: No. I don't think the Chair even recognized that a motion
was...
MS. TODD: Okay. I thought they said that Ms. Rice had seconded.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Oh no.
MS. TODD: That was the earlier motion. Okay.
MR. HENRICKS: The main motion, I am so sorry. There was a motion...
MS. TODD: There's no second then there's no motion.
MR. HENRICKS: Right. There's only the main motion that's on the floor right
now which is CA -2 as written and so Commissioner Roehrig was going to make a
motion to amend that but I don't think the Chair has recognized that motion and
as such there hasn't been a request for a second yet.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, the Acting Chair Zelko-Schlueter relinquished the chair to Chair
Adams.
CHR. ADAMS: Reclaiming my Chairmanship for the moment. This gets to—
part of what we are doing here in addition to doing the substantive work of
looking at the Charter is that we are taking a look at how we can review the
Charter, identify proposals, consider those proposals, and given the fact that
there's 11 of us, look at the changes that folks will want to make in the process of
having that conversation. The Clerk is doing exactly what he is supposed to do,
which is try and keep us in alignment with the rules that we have identified that
we want to operate by right? But I am cognizant of not trying to be so lockstep
that we prevent ourselves from having the conversations that we need to have
about any of the changes to the proposals that we might want to have. So I bring
that up because I think that this is an example. This isn't the first time this, this is
not the only time that this is going to happen. Maybe the first time, maybe the
second time, but it is not the only time. And I would like to hear a little bit more
about what I personally, would like to hear a little bit more about what
Commissioner Roehrig has to say. I would also like to hear a little bit about what
Commissioner Todd has to say in this and maybe one of the ways that we are able
to do that and this is actually a question for our Clerk, is if we are, even if we
don't have a an amendment and we are in discussion about the idea of changing
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Relinquish Chair:
the initial proposal, having that discussion is something that we should be able to
do. Is that fair?
MW HENRICKS: That is precisely where I was headed. Mr. Roehrig is free to
express his thoughts on what he would prefer without necessarily needing to make
a motion to amend it. So full range of discussion on the issues of where the
Council holds its meeting is on the table right now.
At this time, The Chair relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Zelko-Schlueter.
CHR. ADAMS: Vice -Chair Zelko I relinquish my Chair.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Bergin.
MR. BERGIN: I see the clarity in the original proposal, that it would be equally
split between the west and eastern half of the island and further details of that can
be developed. The value I see is a very democratic move to have an exposure,
have a presence in the western half of this island because they are crying for
attention and legitimately. So my position is simple. Just stay with the original
proposal. I am open to any idea, but that would be my choice.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thank you. Commissioner Todd?
MS. TODD: Yeah, you know kind of going back historically, prior to the
construction of the West Hawai`i Civic Center where we have Council Chambers
and all of the audio visual equipment, the County used to regularly schedule
meetings in Kona but we had to rent either rooms from the King Kalnehameha or
we would rent in Keauhou and it was a considerable cost but we had to have
portable equipment so that we could set it up. We now moved to West Hawaii
Civic Center because it has all of that equipment. What they have done to
facilitate participation by members of the public elsewhere is they have a place in
Waimea if you want to participate you can go and you participate via video. You
can go to Pahoa, Ka`ii, I believe we may have one in North Kohala also.
Logistically moving the meeting around to various areas on the island becomes
very difficult because we also livestream the meeting so that people at home can
go on their computer and watch the meetings. If you start moving it to North
Kohala, to Waimea, to Ka`u, I think you are going to lose some of that ability
because I don't know if that type of equipment is portable for the livestreaming.
On top of that, just the audio visual, because right now everybody at every spot
we have got a feed so like the people in Waimea can see the Council room and I
don't know how much more it would take and whether the existing spots that we
have these centers set up would accommodate the full Council as well as
members of the public that may want to testify. What the Council has done when
there are issues that are important to a particular district ---cause many times the
Council agenda nobody shows up to testify because it is about the speed that you
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have in a certain place or parking regulations in a commercial area or that kind of
stuff and very few people show up. What people are more interested in is when
there is something that is right in their neck of the woods and on those occasions
when there has been an interest, Council members can call for a public hearing
and then those public hearings can be held. The public hearing won't have the
same type of audio visual interaction that we currently have with Council
meetings.
But just logistically, I think it becomes very difficult and I say this having been on
the cabinet where we did meetings around the island in different places because if
you start getting into this, you hold your meeting in Oceanview and then Pahala
says well we want a meeting in Pahala and then Na`alehu says well we want a
meeting in Na`alehu and then so Pahoa has a meeting and then Volcano says well
hey, we should have a meeting in Volcano. Why is it just in Hilo? You know and
then Pahoa is going to say let's have the meeting out there. So once you go down
that road where you are saying you are going to have it in Waimea, in Ka`u, in
North Kohala, as well as in Kona, then every single district on the island can chip
in and say well why is it only those districts? Why doesn't Puna get one? Why
doesn't Volcano and I think logistically because you have to take your staff, you
have to have your equipment, you have to have adequate parking, as well as all of
the audio visual, it becomes very, very difficult to implement that plus it becomes
an added expense.
And so I think that before you go down that path you need to think real long and
hard about it because what you are trying to do in that discussion is lets be fair to
these areas but the same argument can be made for other areas. Why doesn't
Honoka`a get a meeting or Papaikou? Or Pepe`ekeo? I just think you try to
accommodate as much as you can and they have done that because we now you
know built a really nice facility in Kona. There is adequate parking there for the
public to come, but we have also made provision for people who want to testify
and for the general public through the video streaming so I would be very hesitant
to move it beyond just going back and forth between Hilo and Kona.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thank you. Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: I concur completely with Commissioner Todd's testimony for all of
the reasons which she illustrated. I think we have very nice facilities for the areas
that are not covered by an actual Council chamber for people who really want to
testify in front of the Council.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: I disagree a hundred percent. You are treating the rest of the
island as second rate citizens. Gee, why are you even going to Kona? We are not
talking about all of the separate little town etc. We are talking about going to
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North Kohala, no one has gone there probably ever period. A lot different being
present at a Council meeting and seeing stuff in front of you then looking at a t.v.
set. You know that so I think this is a good idea. You are talking about Waimea,
Keil, and North Kohala, three out of the 24 and that is the cost of government.
Let these people be part of it.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Saquing.
MS. SAQUING: Thank you. I have perhaps two proposals. The first is to keep
the original proposal by Chairperson but also add in there the verbiage that shares
opportunities to participate in other districts shall be offered or provided via video
streaming or along that line. It is not said in here. We all know that, but it is not
explicitly written in the Charter and theji I want to go back and address what Kit
is saying. I agree about being in a district and having your Council Members
right there live and direct. I would offer that maybe doing Council Members in
four areas predominantly West Hawai`i and Hilo but offer a North Kohala, not all
the way up to Hawl, they can come to Waimea and then something in Na`alehu or
Ka`u, that might be an option as well. That way you can split your calendar into
fours. Or divvy it up to so the majority will fall in West Hawai`i, East Hawai`i,
and the other two districts can be addressed as well.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thank you. Commissioner Bergin.
MR. BERGIN: I embrace the democratic offering of going to multiple
communities but I also embrace the financial constraints that this County is in
now and will be for a long, long, time and if Commissioner Todd has expressed
the added cost of creating the electronic, the parking, the infrastructure that it
takes to host one as a factor as serious as it sounds, then I would tend to again stay
with the original proposal, that if we have a Council setting in Kona as we
appreciate where we are at right now, and that can at least give further exposure to
meetings there instead of once in a while, half of them would be in Kona, half of
them would be on this side. I think it is a gesture toward democracy that would fit
within the financial constraints of what we are going to have to look at on
everything that we propose. There is going to be a cost to it. Not always, but in
some cases it will be enough to I think cause me to sway that's all I had.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thank you. Commissioner
Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: It goes back to my normal thing here. I like the deletion there
but I don't like the addition. I think with changes in technology and everything
else here, I think the times and places as shall be established by the rule of the
Council. Leave Council. It doesn't need to be in the Charter saying you will
meet here and everything else. Let's just say Council makes up those rules. You
have enough representatives. You have representatives from North Kohala, we
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have representatives from Ka`u, Council can sit there I mean they can team up
and block out people, but I would prefer that Council sits there and makes up its
own mind about where it is going to be meeting. That is just my feeling. It
doesn't need to be in the Charter.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: And I did want to make one other
offering. I think there is some concern that let's say there was an emergency and
there was supposed to be a Council meeting that month and it was going to be in
Hilo but Hurricane Lane comes through and the Council couldn't meet. Now next
month you would be scheduled to meet in Kona. Now you may not actually make
equal that year. I mean there may, you may not.
MR. HENRICKS: To your point, because the Council rules currently provide that
the Council hold an equal number of meetings in East and West Hawai`i if for
some reason we have to reschedule a meeting or relocate a meeting I am sorry,
that was scheduled to be on one side or the other than we would go ahead and
make up for that at another time in the year so that we do.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay, got it.
MR. HENRICKS: But the Council rules do say "as practicable" I do believe as
well, to give that leeway just in case for some reason it becomes difficult. What
this would do is essentially what Chair Adams suggested. It would be ensuring it
into the Charter however that flexibility is removed but it would be the
responsibility of the Clerk's office to be ensure that we comport with these new
provisions in the Charter and if I could just briefly speak to the practicalities of
holding meetings in other locations is certainly possible but it won't be the same
kind of meetings that the Council holds in East and West Hawai`i. It will be a
different kind of meeting. To what Commissioner Leithead Todd said, I don't
think we would be able to livestream the meetings. It takes, you know, there's a
room back there with a myriad amount of equipment in it that is essentially fixed
in its location that is required to do that. We are required also when we
livestream to caption the meetings so that all can see it when it is livestreamed.
That takes special equipment as well. The equipment does not move. So I am not
saying that it would be impossible to hold full regular Council meetings in other
locations, they just wouldn't be the Council meetings that people come to
recognize when the Council meetings are held in their current locations. We
might not be able to do the remote testimony locations as well as Commissioner
Leithead Todd said, because that takes a fair amount of technology and
coordination as well, so just throwing those realities into the equation for your
consideration. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thank you. Commissioner
Roehrig.
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MR. ROEHRIG: Thank you. In North Kohala there is a North Kohala
Courthouse and there is quite a bit of electrical stuff there, seating, etc. etc. Same
applies for Waimea. There is a good size courthouse that can accommodate more
people than are sitting here and I don't know what would have to be done in order
to hold a Council meeting there. I don't know about Ka`u. I haven't been there
for a while at the courthouse but Waimea, North Kohala, I think the facilities at
the courthouse would accommodate Council meetings pretty easily.
MR. HENRICKS: If I may, just to reiterate, we could probably hold a Council
meeting nearly anywhere on this island and we would have time to prepare
because we have to notice six days in advance. It just wouldn't be the kind of
Council meetings we are holding now. We would not be able to provide the same
level of public access through technology that we currently provide. Regardless
of what kind of technologies may be available at any specific location. It is not
going to have the type of hardware and software that we use to be able to do that.
It has been quite a process over the last I would say five or six years and if I may
say, homage to former Chair Yoshitnoto who, one of his main objectives in his
last term as Chair was to make sure that the meetings were live streamed to the
public. And that wasn't without some concern as well. It comes with cost but we
have been able to accomplish that. But those are not portable items. Those items
are again fixed so you know it is not just the cost. It is just the practicality of
being able to hold meetings as people have been accustomed to them, like we are
going to go on the road and do our public hearings but those will be —so any
Council meeting held in another location would essentially by and large be
restricted to a location and I have doubts that we would be able to livestream
meetings as we have been due to the requirements that you know we will need
certain equipment and again those meetings would need to be captioned. If you
can imagine, there is a certain software and hardware we use to send the feed to a
place that is far away where there is somebody typing captioning that is nowhere
near the meeting, they are on a whole different island or in another state. So all of
those things go together in a kind of complex array of people and systems to bring
the Council meetings to the people as we are doing currently.
MR. ROEHRIG: I just hear those as excuses. You are talking about three
meetings out of 24. You folks can make it happen. Make it happen.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Chair Adams.
CHR. ADAMS: The purpose of this was when we took a look at the "meet at
least quarterly in the judicial district of North Kona or South Kona, the idea of
saying okay that's not what we are doing now but it is, we wanted to recognize
what actually is being done. But that comes from a larger sense of what can we
do to draw the island, to draw the County together, at least from my perspective.
Those and I am really, I am very happy to hear the conversation. Not because
everybody is in agreement but because we are bringing out a variety of
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perspectives on how that can be done within the logistical constraints that we
have and not just logistical constraints but also as it is apparent, also the you
know, things like the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) and how that
applies. Those are various things that go into the capabilities so that the Council's
meetings can be received by everybody on the island whether live or not.
There may be better wording that can be applied to this that can be included and
maybe it is exactly right that maybe the better way is to in fact take that all out
and just leave it up to the Council because we assume that the Council will take it.
My concern I think with any of that is that I think it is important that there is at
least something here that identifies the idea that this is a whole County, that this
island is a whole island and that by necessity the Council will treat it as such in
terms of at least its meetings. So there is a symbolism that is associated with this,
not just a logistical matter, at least from my perspective. I appreciate the idea that
Commissioner Roehrig has of holding meetings whether it is annually or whether
it is once every Council term in a variety of locations and I am not sure how to
necessarily state that. Maybe we don't. Maybe even in the Charter you don't say
something that they are encouraged to or they will look to do it or I don't know
how that would be phrased. But I certainly think the idea of holding Council
meetings in a variety of places around the island makes a lot of sense if we can
figure out the necessity of one making the decisions on a policy basis. Does it
need to be livestreamed one, or for those particular meetings maybe it doesn't, I
don't know. So those are my comments on this particular part.
MR. ROEHRIG: Where are we anyway?
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yeah, so procedurally we are still
on discussion. But if there was some thought that you know we wanted to go
back and take a look at the wording and perhaps take it up at the next meeting...
CHR. ADAMS: So there are a couple of ways maybe. One is I can withdraw the
motion right and we having heard this discussion various folks can come forward
with their own thoughts on that or I can review this and do it, a second is we just
move forward with this one, vote it up or down for movement as a first reading
and then folks come in with their own proposals or amendments to this as a part
of the process.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: Don't we have a third option, is we can just table it?
MR. HENRICKS: You can postpone the motion to a date certain.
MR. ROEHRIG: Did someone make a motion to table it?
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ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Roehrig. Oh,
Commissioner Todd?
MS. TODD: Before we move further along this, I just wanted to add a few more
thoughts. Typically when we schedule meetings on either side of the island we
also move the committee meetings so that on a Tuesday you have your committee
meetings and Wednesday you have your Council meeting in Kona. When you
move to Hilo you have your committee meetings on one day and your Council
meeting on the next and part of the rationale for that was one if you have got to
move staff over then you don't want them going back and forth. The other things
is that there is as much interest in what happens at the committee level as there is
at the Council level and sometimes there is a bigger turnout at committee
meetings then there is at the Council meeting, but logistically when you do that
you know, there are a couple of possibilities.
If you started moving the meetings around the island to other places, I don't know
that you could do the back to back meetings in Ka`u or North Kohala because of
the fact that you need to have lodging for the overnight for the Council Members
as well as the staff and I don't know whether you have that. You could end up
with a result that you still have to schedule the committee meeting someplace
else, you couldn't hold them both or if you schedule both of them in one area then
people have to commute both days back and forth. I just think that while the idea
that you would move it around the island is nice, I think that logistically it
becomes very difficult and furthermore, I don't understand the idea that you could
have it in Ka`u and North Kohala and Waimea but you are going to say that you
can't have it in Volcano or Pahoa? I mean then you know you are just opening it
up I think to every district saying that they should have at least one meeting in
their district even if there is nothing on the agenda that concerns their district that
time. So I just think it opens up a can of worms and makes it very difficult
logistically. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: I move we table this.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Do we have a second?
MR. HENRICKS: Before you ask for a second, table typically means to a
different time in the same meeting. We don't have any other items on the agenda,
so the proper motion would be to postpone this and included in the motion would
be until when.
MR. ROEHRIG: Excuse me. I move to postpone it.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: To the next meeting?
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
Vote on Motion
To Postpone
Initial Approval of
CA -2 to Nov.
9'h Meeting
(Approved):
Relinquish Chair:
MR. ROEHRIG: Okay.
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: And I believe Commissioner
Hopkins seconded. Commissioner Saquing?
MS. SAQUING: So I had a question Mr. Henricks.
MR. HENRICKS: Before you ask your question, is that motion on the floor to
postpone to November 9 and that was made by Commissioner Roehrig and
seconded by Commissioner Hopkins?
ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yes.
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you.
MS. SAQUING: In the meantime between now and November 9th are we able to
submit a proposal regarding this topic?
MR. HENRICKS: A Commissioner may submit their own distinct proposals.
Separate and distinct if you like from this one. However, we do need to post the
agenda on the 2nd and Chair Adams needs time to review items so you know that
was part of recessing this meeting till now is great. I think it was a good idea.
This has been better than probably trying to finish last time but we don't have a
lot of time between now and our cutoff for accepting agenda items for the ninth.
This will make it just fine because it is already in its fonn and it will just go over.
MS. SAQUING: Thank you.
MR. HENRICKS: Absolutely.
The motion to postpone initial approval of CA -2 to the November 9th meeting,
was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes:
Noes:
Absent:
Commissioners Bergin, Hamann, Hopkins, Saquing, Todd,
Roehrig, Springer, and Zelko-Schlueter - 8
Commissioner Springer, and Chair Adams- 2
Commissioner Galimba
At this time, the Acting Chair Zelko-Schlueter relinquished the chair to Chair
Adams.
CHR. ADAMS: Reclaiming my Chairmanship. Great job Vice -Chair Zelko.
Just a question before we move on in our agenda. Where will that show up on the
agenda? Is that an Unfinished Business? Is that something else?
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -4 October 12, 2018
MR. HENRICKS: That seems reasonable to me. Yeah.
REPORTS: The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
Reports.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Reports is our next item on our agenda. Communication
No. 3-1.1 we have received the ad hoc committee report on Section 10-15 and
Section 10-16, Public Access, Open Space, Natural Resources Preservation Fund
and Maintenance Fund Findings and Recommendations as submitted by
Commissioners Roehrig, Hamann, Springer, and Zelko-Schlueter, and that is all
that we can say at this time.
Next item, we have already done the referrals for Executive Session, we have
already gone through that. The next item would be Agenda Items for our Next
Regularly Scheduled Meeting, Suggestions from Commissioners on Future
Agenda Items. Mr. Henricks.
MR. HENRICKS: I just want to at this point in time you know we had a handout
that Ms. Leslie Chow, Legislative Specialist, Legislative Research Branch had
prepared and again we are not going to discuss it because it is not on our agenda,
but I did want to make it clear to all of the Commissioners during the meeting that
this is in response to some degree to requests, similar requests by both
Commissioners Saquing and Roehrig, kind of like a road map as to what has
happened so far and what has been recommended either by directors or boards
and commissions or also have been spoken to by Commissioners. So we will go
ahead and make sure that all of you have a copy of that and I cannot speak of the
Chair but we will you know, try to get this numbered and hopefully it will be on
the November 9 meeting so that it can be discussed if that is necessary. But to be
clear what this is is just to provide you folks essentially with what Commissioner
Saquing and Roehrig had asked for which is what has been recommended so far.
Is there some kind of, I call it a matrix almost or something that is short to give
you guys a good idea of what recommendations or suggestions are out there and
what has been followed through on thus far where it actually has become a
proposal.
And you know you could add to this list at least mentally the Ad Hoc Committee
Report on Section 3-2 that is nearly complete which we hope to have prepared for
the November 9th agenda since we are talking about items for the next regularly
scheduled meeting, so you can factor that in too at least mentally. We didn't
include it yet because we don't have it complete and we need to make sure that it
is numbered and recorded properly. So if you look at that we hope that you know
and again, this is one of the reasons that I cherish Leslie so much, that she took it
on her own accord to do this because she is listening to you folks and trying to do
whatever she can in her capacity to give you all of the tools you need to feel
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comfortable to be able to you know, create proposals and move along the process.
So thank you very much to her.
If you have any questions please call her, don't call me because she made it. No,
you can call or email either one of us but it is fairly self-explanatory and we hope
that it provides a little bit of extra supplemental support for you guys to feel
comfortable in doing your performing your roles.
MEETING CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Mr. Henricks. Are there any items, any suggestions
ANNOUNCE- on future agenda items that you would like to mention at this time? Alright,
MENTS: moving on to announcements. Our next regularly scheduled meeting is Friday,
November 9th, 1:30 p.m. in Building A, the Council Chambers at the West
Hawai`i Civic Center in Kailua Kona. If you are unable to make that meeting
please let our staff know because they will let me know too, but hopefully
everybody can be there. I am going to take the prerogative of the Chair to make a
couple of comments at this time. We just ran through a couple of Charter
Amendment proposals. It took a little bit of time and those were easy ones
supposedly right? So in other words this is, you know we all know this is serious
business, we all know that this is important work and the process is going to take
a little bit of time because unlike the Council which only has nine members, we
have 11. So we have two more opinions that add up to 15 out of 11. So in any
event it's important that we remember that this is going to take some time as we
go through these particular proposals, getting them in sooner rather than later of
course is going to be important. Nothing is completely done until it is done. And
so, when we have proposals that come up, the idea that you might have an idea
about something that you felt either you thought about later or you felt didn't
necessarily get the level or discussion or consideration at the meeting and you
want to bring it up later, you know, of course that is going to be available to us.
So, we are operating on a time schedule though, so our meeting is November 9th
which means that the agenda for that along with all of the variety of
documentation has to be out by the second. The first or the second.
MR. HENRICKS: Documentation should be complete prior to that so we have
time to assemble everything.
CHR. ADAMS: That's right.
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, for sure.
CHR. ADAMS: So that's next Thursday, is the first?
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, by rule it is 11 days before the meeting so...
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CHR. ADAMS: By our own rules to me and then the staff getting it out and all
that kind of stuff so yes, essentially it would be next Monday. What we are
talking about is as we try and move forward, the understanding that these things
are going to just keep on going and we just need to pay attention to that and
participate in getting those things out, which 1 know you all will. So, any other
comments for the good of the order?
Commissioner Bergin.
MR. BERGIN: I am sorry to report that 1 won't be here for the November 9th
meeting but from Oklahoma I will be thinking about all of you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Bergin. Commissioner Saquing.
MS. SAQUING: I will be in Los Angeles on the 9th as well.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Thank You. Commissioner Hopkins?
MR. HOPKINS: I will be in Oregon.
CIIR. ADAMS: You'll be in Oregon. Okay, I would entertain a motion to
adjourn the meeting of October 12th.
ADJOURNMENT: There being no further business, at 4:46 p.m. Ms. Rice moved that the meeting be
adjourned and seconded by Ms. Saquing.
CHR. ADAMS: Motion passes 10-0 with Commissioner Galimba absent. Thank
you all.
Commission Approval: November 9, 2018
ss Shipman Adam, Chair
20 120 Hawai`i County Charter Commission
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