HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-09-17 Salary Commission MinutesPage 1
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
SALARY COMMISSION MEETING
Held at the Hawaii County Building, 25 Aupuni Street,
Hilo, Hawaii, 96720, commencing at 10:02 a.m., on
September 17, 2018.
REPORTED BY: TERI HOSKINS, RMR, CSR #452
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1 APPEARANCES
2 CHAIR:
3 HUGH Y. ONO, P. E.
4
5 BOARD MEMBERS:
6 FLORENCE K. IKEDA
7 THOMAS E. FRATINARDO
8 GEORGE W. CAMPBELL
9 JAMES W. HIGGINS
10 MILTON PAVAO, P. E.
11 HAROLD D. DOW, M. D.
12 NELSON H. HARANO
13
14 ALSO PRESENT:
15 AMY SELF, DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL
16 WILLIAM V. BRILHANTE, JR., EX -OFFICIO
MEMBER
17 JENNIFER SAKAMOTO
18 MICHELE LAMKIN
19 ALLAN M. YOKOYAMA
20 DEANNA SAKO
21 LISA MIURA
22 GLYNIS YAMADA
23 KIM KAILIPAKA
24 PAULA PAVAO
25 NANCY COOK-LAUER
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1 CHR.
ONO:
Call the
meeting
to order.
2 Okay.
We've
got a
pretty
interesting agenda
3 today. And it's been a long time; I almost forgot who
4 you guys were and you gals were. But it's been a long
5 time, since we didn't meet in August at all and then,
6 of course, our last meeting got postponed because of a
7 disastrous storm. But let me recognize some people.
8 We got Nancy with us here today from the Hawaii Tribune
9 Herald. And Teri is back with us again. And then we
10 have Jennifer and Michele, right? We also have Bill
11 here. And, Paula, thanks for joining us again. We
12 should put you on the Commission as an ad hoc member.
13 MR. HIGGINS: Really.
14 CHR. ONO: And then Robert Becker is the
15 Chair of the Fire Commission. He'll be making a
16 statement later on.
17 So, with that, let's call the meeting to
18 order, and let's have a roll call starting from Nelson
19 again.
20 MR. HARANO: Nelson Harano, West Hawaii.
21 MR. FRATINARDO: Thomas Fratinardo, District
22 1.
23
MR.
DOW:
Harold Dow, District 5.
24
MS.
IKEDA:
Florence Ikeda, District 2.
25
CHR.
ONO:
Yeah, go ahead, Amy.
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1 MS. SELF: Deputy Corporation Counsel Amy
2 Self.
3 MR. BRILHANTE: Bill Brilhante, HR director.
4 MR. PAVAO: Milton Pavao, District 4.
5 MR. HIGGINS: Jim Higgins, District 7.
6 MR. CAMPBELL: George Campbell, Ka'u.
7 CHR. ONO: Okay. Hugh Ono, District 3, I
8 guess, yeah.
9 Okay. We have statements from the public.
10 And so, here to address us is Robert Becker.
11 And, Robert, you're the Chair of the Fire
12 Commission?
13 MR. BECKER: Yes.
14 CHR. ONO: Please.
15 MR. BECKER: Good morning, everybody. My
16 name is Robert Becker. I'm the Chairman of the Hawaii
17 Fire Commission. I was forwarded your agenda for this
18 meeting, and on the agenda it requested information
19 from the different commissions and bodies that were
20 affected by the salary decisions that you make.
21 For the Fire Commission, we didn't have any
22 specific recommendations as far as, you know, when the
23 Salary Commission should consider a salary changes for
24 the chief and the deputy chief but I think, you know,
25 common sense should prevail here. I think that, having
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1 attended your meetings previously where we saw that
2 some of the entities within the County, no one had
3 looked at the salary structure for a decade or more,
4 that didn't make a lot of sense. It was not fair to the
5 people within that structure for them to be able to,
6 you know, keep their wage up to speed, especially with
7 their subordinates.
8
So, I
think as far as we're
concerned, we
9
really felt that
the Commission ought
to look at the
10
schedule of when
subordinate positions
get increases
11 per the collective bargaining agreements, how far those
12 fall, and then take a look at those subordinate
13
positions, how they
mesh with
the supervisors as far as
14
the director/deputy
director
of the different
15 organizations within the County, and also at that time
16 take the opportunity to then compare those salaries
17 with neighboring counties, which is pretty much what
18 you did in the past, but just try to look at it as more
19 of a schedule instead of an almost crisis management is,
20 I think, what happened last time because it had been so
21 long since that had been done. So just calendar it in
22 some way.
23 And I believe -- and correct me if I'm
24 wrong -- that most of the salary increases come with
25 the fiscal year, the beginning of July, so it would be
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1 sometime July or even beforehand if you know what the
2 salary increases are going to be, percentage -wise, to
3 be able to apply those; and just, you know, try to be
4 ahead of the game so that the people that are the
5 supervisors aren't behind their employees salary -wise
6 for periods of time.
7 CHR. ONO: Is that it?
8 MR. BECKER: That's all I have.
9 CHR. ONO: Okay, thank you.
10 Any questions of the Fire Commission Chair?
11 MR. PAVAO: Yeah, I --
12 CHR. ONO: Go ahead, Milton.
13 MR. PAVAO: -- have a question.
14 Based on your intimate knowledge of the fire
15 departments and, obviously, information on all the
16 islands' fire departments, we've gone on record in the
17 past by comparing our island to different islands.
18 What do you think we rank as far as complexity,
19 personnel, degree of hardness of doing the job, land
20 mass? Of course, this island is so huge. Just your
21 comments on where we stand in the -- you know, compared
22 to the rest of the islands.
23 MR. BECKER: Sure. Well, Honolulu, as you
24 know, has the largest population by far. Their
25 department is the largest. This department here, as
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1 you said, we
have
the
largest land mass
by far, you
2 know, larger
than
all
the other islands
combined.
3 I will say that even though this department
4 here is the second in terms of personnel, second
5 largest in the State, in my opinion it's the most
6 complex because EMS falls under the fire department
7 here, which it does not fall under the fire department
8 anywhere else in the State. They have, you know, a
9 large prevention program -- they have the aviation
10
program. You know, wildland fire
here
on the west side
11
is a bigger problem than anywhere
else
in the State, as
12
evidenced by the fire in Waikoloa
here
a month or so
13
ago that went -- I
think it was
15- to 17,000
acres,
14
somewhere in there,
which is the
largest fire
on the
15 island here in quite some time. So, in my opinion, I
16 think this fire department is the most complex as far
17 as the resources that it has.
18 One of the big challenges the fire department
19 has is that the County as a whole -- and I know from
20 hearing the financial officer speak about it -- the
21
County as a
whole, generally most
organizations, about
22
62 percent
of their budget goes to
salary. In the fire
23
department,
it's 85
percent, so
when there's
budget
24
cuts made,
I mean,
there's zero
wiggle room
in the fire
25
department
to those
budget cuts,
so I think
that makes
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1 the management even more difficult. And I think that,
2 you know, the fire department here, if it wasn't the
3 fact that they go out and aggressively get grants from
4 the Feds -- mainly from the Fed -- but from other
5 entities, I think the fire department here would not be
6 near functioning at the level that it does now. I
7 think you have to give the management here a lot of
8 credit for what they do with not a real big budget.
9 But, again, you look at Maui, a lot smaller, but their
10 tax basis is a lot higher, so they're funded a lot
11 better.
12 Does that answer your question?
13 MR. PAVAO: Yeah, it does.
14 And just out of curiosity, on the other
15 islands, who governs the EMS?
16 MR. BECKER: The State funds the County here
17 for the EMS. On the other islands, I don't really know
18 if they fund private ambulance services or how that's
19 really done. I couldn't answer that question.
20 MR. PAVAO: No, but you said the EMS on the
21 other islands does not come under the fire department.
22 MR. BECKER: It does not.
23 MR. PAVAO: Who does it come under?
24 MR. BECKER: I don't know.
25 CHR. ONO: I think in the case of the City and
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1 County of Honolulu, it's its own department.
2 MR. PAVAO: Its own department?
3 CHR. ONO: It's its own department.
4 MR. PAVAO: Oh.
5 CHR. ONO: And, if I'm not mistaken, Water
6 Safety falls under that, too.
7 MR. BECKER: I think the way it is here, it
8 gives a lot more flexibility because you've got, you
9 know, firefighters who have those skills as paramedics
10 and EMTs. It's a requirement here that all
11 firefighters at all levels be at least at Emergency
12 Medical Technician level. And the number of paramedics
13 here is quite high. So a lot of them, you know, cycle
14 through the paramedic program and then promote at some
15 point in their career.
16 MR. PAVAO: Is there a relationship in the
17 department between the EMS and the EMR?
18 MR. BECKER: Between the private ambulance
19 service --
20 MR. PAVAO: Yeah. Is there --
21 MR. BECKER: Yeah, I'm sure they communicate
22 and work together, yeah, because it's mostly advanced
23 life support versus basic life support.
24 MR. PAVAO: Thank you.
25 CHR. ONO: Robert, just for your information,
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1 the intent of this item on the agenda was for this
2 Commission to discuss whether or not we want to do this
3 and have the departments -- or, in this case, the
4 commissions that oversee these positions provide their
5 recommendation for the upcoming pay. So we haven't
6 gotten around to it, but thank you for showing up.
7 I do have one more question. If you're
8 aware, I understand that the fire chief and the deputy
9 have something built into their pay with regard to
10 overtime? It's like a mandatory pay for overtime. I
11 heard that. I'm not sure about it. Are you able to
12 address that or not?
13 MR. BECKER: To my knowledge, the chief and
14 the deputy chief have a salary, and that's it, to my
15 knowledge. I do know that the other subordinate
16 positions do have some mandatory holiday pay as part of
17 it. They also have some mandatory pay under the Fair
18 Labor Standards Act, FLSA.
19 CHR. ONO: Okay.
20 MR. BECKER: But as far as I know -- and I
21 could be wrong -- I have to check with HR - but as far
22 as I know, the chief and the deputy chief have a
23 straight salary. That's it.
24 CHR. ONO: Okay. Bill?
25 MR. BRILHANTE: That's correct. Currently,
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1 the fire chief and the deputy fire chief have no
2 additional provisions for overtime pay.
3 CHR. ONO: Okay, thank you.
4 Any other questions of Mr. Becker?
5 If not, we thank you for -- oh, there is one.
6 Sorry, Harold.
7 MR. DOW: Could you tell us whether the
8 salary actions of this Commission put your chief and
9 deputy above the pay level of subordinates?
10 MR. BECKER: Yes, they did. Yes, the actions
11 that your committee took was to make the equivalent pay
12 here of the chief and the deputy chief the same as the
13 Maui Fire Department, so that puts them above the
14 subordinates without any overtime at this point. Yes.
15 MR. DOW: And if you factor in the guaranteed
16 contracts of subordinates for holiday pay and such, are
17 they still above pay grade of subordinates?
18 MR. BECKER: To my knowledge, yes.
19 MR. DOW: Thank you.
20 CHR. ONO: Okay. Any other questions of
21 Mr. Becker or Chair Becker?
22 If not, thank you, Sir.
23 MR. BECKER: Okay, thank you.
24 CHR. ONO: Have a great day. Stay dry.
25 Does the Commission mind if I take something
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14 answer any questions.
15 CHR. ONO: Okay. Thank you for coming. We
16 really appreciate it.
17 Commissioners, any questions?
18 Really? Okay.
19 Oh, Nelson?
20 MR. HARANO: No.
21 MS. IKEDA: Harold.
22 CHR. ONO: Oh, Harold. I'm sorry, Harold.
23 MR. DOW: Yes.
24 What impact did the lava eruption have on our
25 budget proposals, on our taxable real estate inventory,
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1
out of order? And that
would be the briefing by both
2
the Finance Director,
Deanna, who is there, and Lisa,
3
who is right next to
her. Any objection to doing that?
4
I don't think it's related to -- well, it's related to
5
other items, but not
directly.
6
So, Deanna
and Lynn, would you like to
7
come up together?
8
MS. SELF:
Lisa.
9
CHR. ONO:
Lisa. You know, my cousin -in-law
10
is Lynn. Do you know
her?
11
MS. MIURA:
I've been called worse.
12
CHR. ONO:
Lucky for you.
13
MS. SAKO:
Good morning. We're happy to
14 answer any questions.
15 CHR. ONO: Okay. Thank you for coming. We
16 really appreciate it.
17 Commissioners, any questions?
18 Really? Okay.
19 Oh, Nelson?
20 MR. HARANO: No.
21 MS. IKEDA: Harold.
22 CHR. ONO: Oh, Harold. I'm sorry, Harold.
23 MR. DOW: Yes.
24 What impact did the lava eruption have on our
25 budget proposals, on our taxable real estate inventory,
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1 on destruction of County infrastructure, on and on and
2 on?
3 MS. SAKO: Well, I can let Lisa answer
4 the part on the impact on real estate and the real
5 property taxes, but on the infrastructure, we continue
6 to gather costs and, you know, we definitely have
7 losses. Water Supply as well. So between water
8 systems, roads, and whatnot, you know, the amounts
9 continue to rise. But, of course, we applied for FEMA
10 assistance, including both for the emergency work as
11 well as the infrastructure. So, for all of that, if
12 everything goes according to plan, we will get 75
13 percent from FEMA and we'll pay the 25 percent. And
14 then, the governor also assisted us with some funding,
15 so that will be able to help cover like our 25 percent
16 share.
17 MS. MIURA: Good morning. I'm Lisa Miura
18 with the Real Property Tax Office.
19 As far as the tax office losses go, there's
20 sort of three parts to it. There's the actual loss we
21 had to the 2017 taxes because they had paid taxes all
22 the way through June 30, 2018, and that was
23 approximately $500,000 we had to prorate and return to
24 taxpayers.
25 In addition to that, for the current year,
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1 we've lost about $3.5 million in taxes due to
2 properties being completely inaccessible or being cut
3 off. So, their homes may be standing, but there's no wa
4 to get to it due to the lava inundation -- and those that
5 were completely inundated by lava as well as the lower
6 Puna zone that lost value due to the eruption.
7 As far as going forward, for the upcoming tax
8 year, we have a couple of issues. One, there's some
9 properties that are delinquent, and it's really hard
10 for us to collect on those in the areas that were
11 covered as well as those that are having an economic
12 loss at this time as far as the values.
13 It's really safe to say, though, that we're
14 down at least $3.5 million for the future year.
15 CHR. ONO: Okay. Amy needs to say something.
16 She asked me permission. She's lucky I said yes.
17 MS. SELF: I just wanted to remind the
18 Commissioners that you need to reread what your
19 jurisdiction is under the charter, Section 13-28. And
20 so, your job under the charter is to review and
21 compensate all County -elected officials and appointed
22 directors and deputy directors so that their total
23 salaries and benefits have a reasonable relationship to
24 compensation in the public and private sectors. So,
25 you know, I allowed the testimony to continue, but keep
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1 in mind that that is not what you look at, total budget
2 or anything like that. You have to follow what you're
3 supposed to do under the charter. And I think Deanna
4 has even spoken to that before. So just to keep that
5 in mind.
6 MR. PAVAO: So, Amy, if I may, basically what
7 you're saying is that the status of the County's budget
8 should in no way play in our decision on the salaries.
9 Is that correct?
10 MS. SELF: Well, you can have that in mind,
11 and you can hear information about that, but you also
12 have to look at the charter, which says that you have
13 to compensate -- a reasonable relationship to
14 compensation in the public and private sectors. So
15 that's what you're trying to do when you're adjusting
16 salaries is to keep up with the other -- the total
17 compensation and benefits should be reasonably
18 related -- should have a reasonable relationship to the
19 compensation within the public and private sectors.
20 MR. PAVAO: Regardless of the ability to pay?
21 It really doesn't make sense.
22 MS. SELF: That's what the charter says. I'm
23 just citing the charter.
24 CHR. ONO: Yeah, part of the agenda today is --
25 my intent was to address that to some degree, and so
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1 we'll be talking about that as part of the rest of the
2 agenda.
3 Anything else?
4 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. Question, please.
5 CHR. ONO: Go ahead, George.
6 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. So, in the budget
7 process for this year, if we should decide to give
8 raises -- even though we're not supposed to consider
9 that -- are there funds to cover such raises, or are we
10 under budget? Over budget? Projections for next year?
11 Where are we at right now?
12 MS. SAKO: So we have included the
13 current salaries, you know, in the fiscal year '19
14 budget, which is the fiscal year we're in right now.
15 There may be a -- I don't even think we have a
16 provision for compensation adjustment this year because
17 it may have been just based on timing. Most of the
18 bargaining units, I think, had completed their
19 negotiations prior to June 30th. We may have a small
20 provision for BU14, so that would allow us a little bit
21 of flexibility, but we didn't specifically take into
22 account, you know, pay raises for the appointed and
23 elected officials; but I think there is a small
24 provision, should that be granted. Otherwise, we would
25 just assume that each department would absorb it from
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1 within.
2 CHR. ONO: Milton?
3 MR. PAVAO: Yeah, I have a question. Maybe
4 the question is more for Bill than Deanna.
5 When you enter into negotiations, I'm sure,
6 with the union, the question of ability to pay comes
7 into play, right?
8 MR. BRILHANTE: Commissioner Pavao, yes,
9 that's always a component of the negotiations. Going
10 forward, actually, as a matter of fact, we hire an
11 expert, subject matter expert, for that specific issue
12 as to what's the economic impacts of potential raises
13 and how are the County's -- their ability to pay
14 associated with the salary requests. So that does play
15 a role, but when we enter negotiations, when we're
16 engaged in negotiations, just remember County of Hawaii
17 is one of five entities. There's other jurisdictions
18 as well as the State, and almost every jurisdiction
19 plays a role in that going forward; and oftentimes, the
20 uniqueness of Hawaii County is not really given much
21 consideration when the arbitrator makes their decision.
22 I wish it would be given more consideration, but we
23 just have one vote. So, you know, going forward,
24 that's generally how it is.
25 MR. PAVAO: I guess based on that line of
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1 discussion, and maybe addressing to Amy, maybe the
2 rules need to be changed. That ability to pay should
3 be a consideration.
4 MS. SELF: Well, it's not a rule; it's the
5 charter.
6
MR.
PAVAO:
Then the
charter --
7
MS.
SELF:
It needs
to go on the ballot.
8
MR.
PAVAO:
The charter
should be changed.
9
The ability to
pay should
be a
consideration.
10
MS.
SELF:
Well, isn't
that on the agenda?
11
So you can discuss
that
later on
in the agenda.
12
CHR.
ONO:
We will.
13 Jim?
14 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah, I have a question. Let's
15 get back to your topic on property taxes.
16 So those areas that were inundated, lost
17 revenues because of the property taxes, does that go on
18 forever and ever, or certainly some of those areas will
19 be rebuilt over years and years. So, who keeps track of
20 that?
21 MS. MIURA: It will be the Real Property Tax
22 Office. So we go by market values. So when the market
23 starts to pay for it, then we will be able to tax it
24 again.
25 MR. HIGGINS: So, for the time being, it's
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1 aloha for the foreseeable future?
2 MS. MIURA: Correct.
3 MR. HIGGINS: But what if one or two houses
4 out in the middle of nowhere are rebuilt? Does
5 somebody actually go out and inspect and look around?
6 Because if it's a small amount, it's not going to show
7 up in the real estate prices.
8 MS. MIURA: Well, there's a couple of
9 different factors. We do follow MLS, but that would be
10 a listing through the realtors, and not all sales
11 happen through the realtors. So anything recorded at
12 the Bureau of Conveyances would come through our
13 office.
14 There are -- you know, down in that area,
15 they have some agreement of sales that don't get
16 recorded, and people go and start building unpermitted,
17 and the tax office for this County does pick up
18 unpermitted dwellings. The issue that we have in other
19 parts of lower Puna that was previously covered by lava
20 is that some people are building on lots they don't
21 actually own -- and so that's a different issue. But as
22 far as the area that's covered right now, we are
23 watching that, and we do use aerial imagery to follow
24 up with that.
25 MR. HIGGINS: Thank you.
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1 CHR. ONO: Anything else? Any questions by
2 anybody else?
3 Well, I thank you two for coming and showing
4 up, and maybe if you're lucky you won't have to come to
5 our next meeting. We're kind of accustomed to seeing
6 you. Thank you, Deanna and Lisa.
7 MS. MIURA: Thank you.
8 MS. SAKO: Thank you.
9 MR. BRILHANTE: Thanks, Deanna. Thanks,
10 Lisa.
11 CHR. ONO: Oversight on my part. I forgot to
12 acknowledge Allan Yokoyama over there. He's the Deputy
13 Director in the Department of Human Resources.
14 So back to the agenda, approval of the
15 minutes for June 21st, 2018. Open for discussion.
16 I need a motion to approve.
17 MR. PAVAO: So moved.
18 CHR. ONO: Moved by Milton.
19 MR. CAMPBELL: Second.
20 CHR. ONO: Seconded by George Campbell.
21 Discussion?
22 Not hearing any discussion, I call for the
23 vote. All those in favor, say "Aye."
24 (All members responded affirmatively.)
25 CHR. ONO: Any opposed?
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1 Motion is carried. These minutes are
2 approved. Okay, now back to the agenda.
3 Under "Communications," we were cc'd a copy
4 of a letter from Patricia Sexton to Council Members
5 Dru Kanuha and Jen Ruggles, and it was coming on the --
6 basically, the excise tax surcharge, as it was being
7 discussed, as well as the salaries that were previously
8 approved by the Salary Commission.
9 The Chair recommends that we just file -- put
10 this letter on file.
11 May I have a motion to do so?
12 MS. IKEDA: I so move.
13 CHR. ONO: Moved by Florence.
14
Second?
15
MR.
FRATINARDO:
Second.
16
CHR.
ONO: Second
by Thomas.
17
Any
discussion on
that?
18
Not
hearing any,
all those approved say
19 "Aye."
20
(All
members responded
affirmatively.)
21
CHR.
ONO: Motion
carried. That letter is on
22 file.
23 The next two items, Memorandum from the
24 County of Hawaii Charter Commission Chair Douglass
25 Shipman Adams dated August 1st, 2018, stating that they
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1 are seeking input from the Salary Commission as to how
2 the County Charter affects their role and operations
3 within the County and any proposals they may have to
4 amend the charter. Requests this information be
5 provided to them by September 26th. And that was one
6 of the reasons that we scheduled the meeting so shortly
7 after the meeting that was canceled. So this is a
8 reschedule of this meeting so that we can provide them
9 some feedback.
10 And then the second part of that is
11 Memorandum from the Salary Commission Chair. I
12 responded to Chairman Adams that it was on our agenda
13 and that we would get back to them by September 26th.
14 So with that, that's open for discussion
15 right now. I have some notes here. Let me see. One
16 of the things. There is a charter amendment proposal,
17 and if I'm not mistaken, the Charter Commission has
18 this amendment. As you recall, it had to do with the
19 conduct or the processing of the Salary Commission as
20 far as requiring public hearings or public
21 informational meetings, and more widespread, with the
22 meeting in Kona or something like that. I forgot the
23 details exactly, but you know what they are.
24 So, with that, this item is open for
25 discussion, the objective being so that the Chair can
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1 get back or respond to the Charter Commission by
2 September 26th.
3 Anybody have anything?
4 George?
5 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. I suggest that, at
6 least for discussion, we talk about going ahead and
7 asking the Charter Commission to put all that
8 information that is going to be voted on in our
9 charter. It's my opinion that it will likely pass, but
10 it's my opinion that we can live with that and work
11 around it. And so, at least I'd like to have us
12 discuss -- or I would propose that we proceed to add
13 that information as proposed in what we'll see in the
14 ballots to our charter.
15 CHR. ONO: Why don't you make a motion to that
16 so we can have the appropriate --
17 MR. CAMPBELL: All right. I would like to
18 make a motion that we add the changes as proposed that
19 we'll see in our election ballot coming up to our
20 charter.
21 CHR. ONO: Do we have a second?
22 MR. PAVAO: I don't quite understand.
23 MS. IKEDA: Yeah, I don't understand either.
24 MS. SELF: What you're asking --
25 MR. CAMPBELL: Simply said is remember when
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1 Councilwoman Lee Loy proposed a change to our charter?
2 It had a bunch of changes, and we discussed them in
3 great detail here three meetings ago or somewhere in
4 that timeframe; and the changes were to have at least
5 one meeting to be held in Kona and two public meetings
6 when we're considering raises. All of our meetings are
7 public, so that's not a problem. And for any time that
8 we raise more than 10 percent, that we have to have at
9 least --
10 CHR. ONO: Two-thirds.
11 MR. HIGGINS: Two-thirds.
12 MR. CAMPBELL: -- two-thirds of the members
13 of the Commission approve it.
14 CHR. ONO: Let me restate that.
15 I think your motion is to support that
16 charter amendment?
17 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, it is.
18 MS. SELF: Oh, to support the charter
19 amendment?
20 CHR. ONO: Charter amendment as it was proposed
21 MS. SELF: By Ms. Lee Loy.
22 CHR. ONO: Uh-huh.
23 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, that's --
24 CHR. ONO: So, do I have a second on that?
25 MS. SELF: I have it here if anyone wants to
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1
see.
2
MR.
HIGGINS: Yeah, I'll second that.
3
CHR.
ONO: Now for the discussion.
4
MS.
IKEDA: Can I ask, Amy, did you have a
5
chance to go through
it and to see what needed to be
6
changed to be
updated? Have you had the opportunity to
7
go through it
in our --
8
MS.
SELF: For the proposed --
9
MR.
BRILHANTE: I think she is referencing
10
the Salary Commission
rules.
11
MS.
IKEDA: Yes.
12
MS.
SELF: Oh, we haven't gotten to that yet.
13
MS.
IKEDA: Oh, sorry.
14
Would
that affect the charter amendments?
15
Did you see anything
that should be updated?
16
MS.
SELF: Well, the updates I made was to
17
comply with Sunshine
Law; but the other side of this is
18
you guys need
to decide what kind of procedures you are
19
going to have.
If you're going to make decisions or
20
raise the salaries
like you did last time, based on the
21
methodology you went through, that is something that
22
could go into
your rules; it wouldn't be something that
23
would go into
the charter. But you cannot go beyond
24
the authority
that the charter gives you.
25
So,
in other words, the charter has very
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1 broad language to increase salaries. So the way that
2 you go about that is up to you. The process or the
3 procedure you go through to come up with increases in
4 the salaries is something that would go in your rules.
5 So once you make that decision -- that would not affect
6 the charter.
7 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah --
8 MR. FRATINARDO: The discussion is about
9 98 --
10 MR. CAMPBELL: -- that's different than the
11 motion on the table.
12 MS.SELF: Right. The motion is on the
13 table, like Tom said.
14 MR. FRATINARDO: So I'm fine with George's
15 proposal, and I think we should move on to what Amy was
16 speaking about, the rules, when the time comes. Let's
17 talk about -- Act 98? Is that it? Correct?
18 MS. SELF: Yes. Bill and I --
19 MR. FRATINARDO: So I'm ready to vote on
20 that.
21 CHR. ONO: Okay. Anybody else? I have a
22 comment, but I'll --
23 MR. HIGGINS: I have a couple comments.
24 CHR. ONO: Jim, please.
25 MR. HIGGINS: Well, first of all, there was
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1 nothing wrong with the procedure, so I don't see what
2 all this hullabaloo is all about, quite frankly. What
3 was wrong with the procedure? We corrected things that
4 were wrong for ten years. We corrected the inversion
5 of salaries. We did that in three months, where the
6 previous ten years they couldn't deal with that. So
7 all of a sudden, the County Council heard a little bit
8 of a uproar because of the 30 percent increases, which
9
they got as well;
and their response was not to
say
10
anything about the 30 percent being outrageous,
which
11
they could have,
because they could have refused
to
12
have taken those
pay raises themselves, which we
know
13
that's not going
to happen. So, instead, we go
through
14
a costly process
of trying to correct a process
that
15
worked perfectly.
And so, here we are wasting all
this
16
time, money, and
from what I can see is that the
new
17 changes to the charter that they're proposing, based on
18 Bill's testimony a couple of meetings ago, is only
19 going to do one thing, and that is raise the cost of
20 government.
21 So, that's what I would like to see in our
22 answer to Douglass Shipman Adams. I think he wants
23 some additional input. That's my input.
24 MR. PAVAO: And for whatever reason, I
25 totally agree with Mr. Higgins.
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1 CHR. ONO: Yeah, there's no question there's
2 an increase in the time and effort and, therefore, it
3 results in an increase in the cost of this operation
4 over here -- and I felt that that was an appropriate
5 comment to bring to the Salary Commission. So, at this
6 point this time, I will make a note of that, of the
7 increase in cost when we compare what we're doing now
8 versus what we will have to do.
9 Another thing is, is anybody able to respond
10 to when is the timing of this charter amendment? I
11 mean, the election is on November the 10th, something
12 like that. And is this charter amendment going to be
13 in this election?
14 MR. BRILHANTE: No.
15 CHR. ONO: Okay.
16 MR. BRILHANTE: The proposed amendments that
17 are generated by the Charter Commission will not be
18 presented to the public until the next election two
19 years down the road.
20 CHR. ONO: Okay. I --
21 MS. SELF: But the one from Council will
22 be --
23
MR.
BRILHANTE:
Will be on this one.
24
MS.
SELF: --
on this ballot. The one that
25
Council Member
Lee Loy --
was voted on by the Council,
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1 that will be on this November's ballot.
2 MR. BRILHANTE: This ballot.
3 There's two separate processes. One is the
4 amendments that are put forth by the Council. They had
5 their deadline. And they came up with the amendments
6 to the Salary Commission and that met their deadline,
7 so that will be on this coming election ballot. But the
8 proposals generated by the Charter Commission won't be
9 on the ballot until two years down the road, the next
10 election.
11 CHR. ONO: Oh, okay. So what is the
12 relationship, if I might ask, with what the Charter
13 Commission is doing versus this charter amendment that
14 was adopted by the County Council -- none, really,
15 right? So, if we respond to them about this charter
16 amendment, it's moot, correct?
17 MR. BRILHANTE: That's correct.
18 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah, yeah. We lost our
19 opportunity on that.
20 CHR. ONO: I know.
21 MR. HIGGINS: We're done, it looks like, to
22 me. We should have been raising these questions about,
23 okay, what will your proposals actually do to improve
24 the procedure of giving people raises? It's as simple
25 as that. And the answer to that is none. There is
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1 nothing in there.
2 Now, they seem to think that the 60 --
3 two-thirds vote is an improvement on the procedure.
4 Well, I would disagree with that. Otherwise, we never
5 would have gotten a lot of things we've done following
6 our procedures. Anyway, that's probably too late is
7 my feeling.
8 MR. BRILHANTE: May I respond briefly?
9 CHR. ONO: Sure. Certainly, Bill.
10 MR. BRILHANTE: Yes and no, Commissioner
11 Higgins. Although the Council -proposed amendment is
12 going forward and it will be voted on by the public
13 this election, there's nothing to stop this Commission
14 from addressing that very same issue through the
15 Charter Commission, which would then be proposed and
16 the public will be voting on in two years down the
17 road. So, if there's items under this proposal that
18 you're not comfortable with, the charter can be amended
19 later.
20 So say, for example, the Council proposals
21 pass. There's nothing to stop you from making
22 additional amendments to the charter language,
23 proposing additional amendments to the charter language
24 through the Charter Commission so that it can be voted
25 on two years down the road.
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1 I'm sure I just made that clear as mud.
2 MR. HIGGINS: Perfect.
3 Well, I think as George said previously, we
4 can live with it. I'm going on it on the cost of
5 government thing and we've lost our chance on it. I'm
6 not
going to propose anything
after this election to
7 get
it changed and get Chair
Douglass Adams to go
8 through more paperwork and more thinking. We can live
9 with it, but political grandstanding at its best.
10 MS. SELF: Keep in mind it's really not going
11 to affect the process that you guys went through this
12 last time or will go through. It's primarily just they
13 changed it to -- you have it in front of you. I don't
14 have it in front of me right now, but they changed it
15 to at least one -- before you change --
16 MR. CAMPBELL: We had to, 30 days prior to
17 approval for salary adjustment, publish at least once
18 in at least two newspapers. So it says at least 30
19
days prior
to the
approval
of any
salary adjustment,
20
publish at
least
once in at
least
two daily newspapers
21 of general circulation in the County a detailed account
22 of its proposal/proposals, including specific increases
23 or decreases in both actual dollar amounts and
24
percentages;
hold at
least
one
public hearing, either
25
East Hawaii
or West
Hawaii;
provided that any public
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1 hearing shall be conducted using videoconferencing
2 technology; allow for public participation in both East
3 and West Hawaii; and submit copies of a detailed report
4 of the Commission findings and conclusions used to
5 develop this proposal or proposals to the Office of the
6 County Clerk and the Offices of Mayor for public
7 inspection. The public notice required pursuant to
8 this subsection shall include notification that the
9 report of the Commission's findings and conclusions is
10 available for public inspection at the aforementioned
11 locations. Any adjustments that increases or decreases
12 any salary by more than 10 percent shall require a
13 affirmative vote of two-thirds of the entire membership
14 of the Salary Commission.
15 So, I agree with the comments that Jim made.
16 I also agree that we missed our chance. That's my
17 opinion. And that what we have here, just as whatever
18 we do, we're supposed to make the public aware of it.
19 It doesn't say how we do it. That's still our rules
20 and what we decide as a Commission, whatever process we
21 decide to use. It just says that whatever we do, we
22 need to be made -- in today's world, I'll use the word
23 "transparent." And personally, I don't see anything
24 wrong with that.
25 CHR. ONO: Question: Assuming this appears on
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7 effect -- Glynis?
8 MS. SELF: She's going to check with Jon
9 Henricks.
10 CHR. ONO: Oh, okay.
11 Yeah, I did have a real concern about this
12 whole thing. It just really upset me, you know, having
13 had to appear in front of them, and I thought it was a
14 fair effort we gave to make them aware what we were
15 doing and the things that we had to deal with, like no
16 activity or action taken on this for many, many years,
17 falling in arrears; but I don't believe that anybody
18 was listening to any of that.
19 So it's real close to me, and I'm not real
20 happy about it. Well, anyway, whatever this group
21 decides, in any case, if it's adopted -- well, as it
22 goes through the election process for approval, I'm not
23 sure whether you want to go on a campaign to unseat it.
24 Okay? So, we'll just let it run its course.
25 But, in the meantime, should we provide any
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1 the ballot and
it is approved during
this election,
2 when does this
charter amendment go
into effect?
3 MS.
SELF: I think it would
go into effect at
4 the beginning
of the year 2019. I'd
have to check on
5 that, though, because...
6 CHR.
ONO: Okay. But does
anything take
7 effect -- Glynis?
8 MS. SELF: She's going to check with Jon
9 Henricks.
10 CHR. ONO: Oh, okay.
11 Yeah, I did have a real concern about this
12 whole thing. It just really upset me, you know, having
13 had to appear in front of them, and I thought it was a
14 fair effort we gave to make them aware what we were
15 doing and the things that we had to deal with, like no
16 activity or action taken on this for many, many years,
17 falling in arrears; but I don't believe that anybody
18 was listening to any of that.
19 So it's real close to me, and I'm not real
20 happy about it. Well, anyway, whatever this group
21 decides, in any case, if it's adopted -- well, as it
22 goes through the election process for approval, I'm not
23 sure whether you want to go on a campaign to unseat it.
24 Okay? So, we'll just let it run its course.
25 But, in the meantime, should we provide any
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1 comment to the Charter Commission just saying that it's
2 on this election and that the only thing we're
3 concerned about is the additional effort and cost?
4 MR. PAVAO: I think we should be honest and
5 tell them that we don't agree with it. I mean, at
6 least make our position known that we don't agree with
7 it. I know it's too late. And what bothers me about
8 this particular language is that it gives the public
9 the impression that they have a right to set salaries;
10 and I think that's wrong, because the public doesn't
11 have the information we have to set salaries. I
12 know -- and I totally believe in transparency and the
13 people's right to have a say, but I don't think
14 salaries is a point where people should determine what
15 the salaries are. As I said earlier, they don't have
16 the information we have, and 90 percent of the people
17 out there think government officials are paid too much
18 anyway, so it doesn't make sense. It just doesn't make
19 sense.
20 MS. SELF: If I may, the public did have the
21 information that you had if they had attended the
22 meetings because everything was done according to
23 Sunshine Law. Every meeting that you had was open to
24 the public. There was nothing done behind closed
25 doors. This is not going to change that. You're still
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1 going to be operating under Sunshine Law.
2 MR. PAVAO: Yeah, I know, but how many of the
3 public come here and get the information that we get?
4 Nobody.
5 MS. SELF: Yeah. It's the unfortunate thing,
6 you know. It's just the way things go.
7 MR. PAVAO: Yeah. But I think we should take
8 a stand and tell the Charter Commission that we do not
9 agree with it. I mean, make our position known. I
10 mean, just don't lay back and play dead because then
11 they'll assume that we agree with it, and I don't think
12 we agree with it.
13 CHR. ONO: Okay. We have a motion on the table
14 to support this. So is our position still the same, or
15 do we want to amend that, or --
16 MS. SELF: I've gone through this before with
17 Open Space Commission just recently, last week. I
18 think what the Charter Commission is looking for is
19 recommendations for charter amendments. And you don't
20 know whether this will pass or not. I think generally
21 things that are on the ballot pass because people don't
22 take the time to read them and actually see what it
23 involves, but it doesn't preclude you from making
24 recommendations, like Bill was mentioning, to the
25 Charter Commission as to what you would like to see
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1 changed in the charter. And then this would be on the
2 ballot two years from now.
3 MR. FRATINARDO: Chair?
4 CHR. ONO: Yes, Tom.
5 MR. FRATINARDO: We've, basically, decided a
6 couple of months back that we weren't in favor of this;
7 that's why you went and testified. So I think it
8 should stand there. And people will vote the way
9 they're going to vote on this in November. And whether
10 people go out there and sign -wave against Act 98 or for
11 98, it's going to be voted for. I would like to see us
12 maybe focus more on the Charter Commission. So can we
13 go either -- either we're going to vote on it or just
14 make a motion not to even vote on it?
15 CHR. ONO: Well, here's what the Chair would
16 recommend. I would recommend that we just defer on
17 this and let it run its course. Once it's on the
18 ballot -- and if it gets adopted, we have time after
19 that to address it with the Charter Commission.
20 But either way, George, if you want to let
21 your motion stand, we can just vote on it and see where
22 it goes. It's okay the way it is, I think.
23 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, let's let it stand.
24 MR. BRILHANTE: Just for clarification.
25 CHR. ONO: Sure.
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1 MR. BRILHANTE: Ms. Yamada was able to get
2 additional information from the Deputy County Clerk,
3 Jon Henricks, and that communication to us is that if
4 an item amending the County Charter is approved by the
5 voters on November 6, that item becomes effective the
6 next day -- so it would be November 7th if approved by
7 the voters. So, hypothetically, if the proposed
8 amendments that were initiated by the Council were
9 approved by the public, they would come into effect on
10 November 7th; and then, like Chair Ono mentioned, it
11 would be at that time that you would have the
12 opportunity to address the Charter Commission as to any
13 proposed changes once the adoption of those items --
14 MR. PAVAO: But it wouldn't be for two years
15 later?
16 MR. BRILHANTE: Correct.
17 MR. PAVAO: Yeah. So, for two years, we would
18 have to comply with the new language?
19 MR. BRILHANTE: That's if those proposals are
20 authorized by the public.
21 CHR. ONO: Well, practically speaking, from the
22 Chair's perspective, I see no advantage to objecting to
23 it. If we're going to do something about it, we're
24 going to have to do it before November the 7th. And so,
25 from the Chair's point of view, I think we should
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1 just -- I'm in favor of your motion, George, and we
2 just let it run its course.
3 MR. PAVAO: I guess I have a question. First
4 of all, the Charter Commission is asking us for
5 comments, right, as to what we'd like to see? The
6 language that Amy showed us, that's not set in stone,
7 right? That's only a proposal, right, to the Charter
8 Commission?
9 MR. CAMPBELL: No.
10 MS. SELF: No.
11 MR. CAMPBELL: It's on the ballot.
12 MS. SELF: Council can bring its own
13 amendment.
14
MR.
PAVAO: So, it's a done deal?
15
MS.
SELF: But no -- it has to go to the
16
ballot -- and
so, the people have to vote.
17
MR.
PAVAO: So it's not up to the Charter
18
Commission --
it's already on the --
19
MS.
SELF: This will already be on the ballot
20
in November.
Yes.
21
MR.
BRILHANTE: Like we said, these are two
22
separate items.
The Salary Commission is not asking
23
you to comment
on the proposal that was initiated by
24
the Council.
25
CHR.
ONO: So, we don't have to do anything?
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1 MR. BRILHANTE: No. They're saying look at
2 the charter the way it's currently written. Do you
3 have any questions or concerns or would like to provide
4 them additional information regarding the current state
5 of the charter. That's what this letter is requesting.
6 CHR. ONO: Okay. So I believe my conclusion is
7 that the motion is not necessary because it's not part
8 of their purview to consider this. It's on the ballot
9 already.
10 MR. PAVAO: I still say we should let them
11 know that we don't agree.
12 MR. FRATINARDO: We did.
13 MR. PAVAO: It's not going to do any good,
14 but at least let our position known.
15 CHR. ONO: Well, the motion is to support the
16 amendment.
17 MR. FRATINARDO: May I please, again?
18 CHR. ONO: Sure.
19 MR. FRATINARDO: The Chair made this
20 Commission's feelings known about this act several
21 months ago, which is on record. That's all I have to
22 say.
23 CHR. ONO: Um -hum. So what action are you
24 recommending?
25 MR. FRATINARDO: Defer it. We don't need
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1 to -- because we're talking about two separate things.
2 We're talking about the letter to the Charter
3 Commission and a separate matter, which wasn't even on
4 the agenda to bring up in the first place.
5 CHR. ONO: Okay. So can the Chair call for
6 the question?
7 So the question is either you support us
8 informing the Charter Commission that we support this
9 County Council charter amendment, or if you vote
10 against it, that means that it's moot and nothing will
11 happen. Agreed?
12 Everybody understand?
13 Okay. I call for a roll call vote, then,
14 starting with Nelson.
15 MR. HARANO: Nay.
16 MR. FRATINARDO: District 1, no.
17 MR. DOW: District 5, no.
18 MS. IKEDA: District 2, no.
19 CHR. ONO: Chair votes no.
20 MR. PAVAO: No.
21 MR. HIGGINS: 7, no.
22 MR. CAMPBELL: Aye.
23 CHR. ONO: You have to do that.
24 George, thank you. Excellent discussion.
25 MR. FRATINARDO: Yeah.
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1 CHR. ONO: We all better understand what's
2 going on with this whole thing. Okay.
3 So, in that case, we have no comment to
4 furnish the Charter Commission.
5 MR. PAVAO: Mr. Chairman, I have a comment as
6 far as what -- they asked us for comments, right? I
7 think my comment is what the discussion we had about 15
8 minutes ago, that I think the charter should include a
9 provision on the way we determine raises, that a
10 reasonable effort in the ability to pay should be
11 considered because right now, according to Amy, it's
12 not considered.
13 MS. SELF: Not according to Amy -- according
14 to the charter.
15 MR. PAVAO: Well, according to Amy according
16 to the charter. However.
17 MS. SELF: Just reading the charter.
18 CHR. ONO: Here's what I would like to do. We
19 have other things on the agenda that we need to do, so
20 I'd like to save that item for a future meeting.
21 MR. BRILHANTE: I think it's relevant to this
22 discussion because the agenda item is requesting any
23 information from the Commission that would be conveyed
24 to the Charter Commission regarding changes or
25 amendments to the charter the way it's currently
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1 written.
2 CHR. ONO: Okay, I stand corrected.
3 MR. BRILHANTE: That's definitely an item
4 that would address --
5 MR. PAVAO: Because there's really not much
6 time.
7 MR. FRATINARDO: I don't want to talk over
8 Mr. Pavao, but why do they need to know by the 26th of
9 September, being for something that's going to be going
10 on in two years?
11 MR. PAVAO: Well, they need to have it on the
12 ballot.
13
MR.
BRILHANTE:
No.
14
MR.
FRATINARDO:
No, this is not on the
15
ballot. The Charter
Commission
is separate from the
16
vote in November.
Am I correct, Bill?
17
MR.
BRILHANTE:
That's correct. My
18
understanding,
the reason
that date was identified is
19
because that's
their next
meeting.
20
MR.
FRATINARDO:
Can they give us a little
21
bit more time
so we can maybe go --
22
MR.
BRILHANTE:
The Chair can request that.
23
MR.
FRATINARDO:
This is a lot -- because I'm
24
thinking about
--
25
CHR.
ONO: Yeah,
it's a whole process.
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1 MR. FRATINARDO: And there's things in there
2 that may, in my mind -- and suggestions that I might
3 make that might appear political -- and people might see
4 it that way. So I'd like to think it through and run
5 it through the Chair at the next meeting, if possible.
6 CHR. ONO: Milton, you want to discuss now or --
7 MR. PAVAO: Yeah -- no, I'm totally confused.
8 I'm really confused. The letter we got for comments,
9 wasn't those comments to be given in consideration of
10 putting it on the charter amendment this year?
11 No?
12 MS. SELF: No. The reason I think they gave
13 the September 26th deadline for them to receive the
14 recommendations back is because, you've got to keep in
15 mind, I think they've sent these letters out to every
16 department, every board or commission. And I don't know
17 if you have ever gone to Charter Commission meetings,
18 but they go through the entire charter. So this isn't
19 just amendments for this section. They have to look at
20 recommendations from every department and every board
21 or commission regarding recommendations for amendments
22 to the entire charter. And it takes a lot of time to
23 get through that process. So the Charter Commission
24 only meets, what is it, once every --
25 MR. BRILHANTE: Oh, once every ten years.
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1 MS. SELF:
Yeah. So it's
a big deal, you
2 know. It's not just
reviewing certain
sections of the
3 charter. It's looking
at the entire
charter to see if
4 they want amendments
to the charter
to go on the
5 ballot, like we said,
in two years.
So it's not just,
6 like, a quick thing.
That's probably
why they want to
7 get started now.
MS. SELF:
Yes.
8 MR. PAVAO:
So this would
be for two years
9 hence?
10
MS. SELF:
To go on the ballot, yes.
11
CHR. ONO:
In 2020.
12
MS. SELF:
Yes.
13
MR. PAVAO:
And the one that the Council
14
made, the Council can
do their own and ensure that it
15
goes on the ballot, so
it's a different process?
16
MS. SELF:
Yes.
17
MR. PAVAO:
Okay.
18
CHR. ONO:
Here's what I suggest: Let me
19
respond to them that
we're still looking things over;
20
we have some interest
in certain items having to do
21
with the Salary Commission
and financial -- something
22
like that, anyway, and
get back to them, so that it
23
just leaves the item
open and not like we have closed
24
it off.
25 MR. PAVAO: I'm so confused.
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1 MR. FRATINARDO: Well, the concern I have,
2 Mr. Ono, is that our process has to go through
3 introducing a subject matter that we have to discuss
4 what we want to add to or take/subtract from our
5 existing charter. And that's what we have to
6 determine. Does each Commissioner want something added
7 to that charter to make, maybe, this particular
8 Commission more autonomous? That's just as a
9 suggestion, you know. So we have to -- I want to be
10 able to think it through.
11 CHR. ONO: Yeah. So what if we say we have no
12 comment at this time?
13 MS. IKEDA: Hugh?
14 MR. HIGGINS: No, I think we have to respond.
15 If Amy is right and they've sent out these requests to
16 all kinds of commissions and other boards and what have
17 you, you don't want to be on their S list about, "Oh,
18 well, you know, the Salary Commission never even
19 responded to us." I think you got to respond.
20 CHR. ONO: Okay.
21 MR. HIGGINS: And you can make it as neutral
22 as you want, but you got to respond to this.
23 CHR. ONO: Well, let's entertain a motion as to
24 what that response is, and then we can have a
25 discussion about it.
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1 MR. PAVAO: Well, I already made a comment
2 about the reasonable information on the ability to pay.
3 I think that's important.
4 CHR. ONO: Do you want to put that in the form
5 of a motion?
6 MR. PAVAO: Sure.
7 Oh, you want me to say it?
8 CHR. ONO: Yeah. Yeah.
9 MR. PAVAO: I suggest that we inform the
10 Charter Commission that the rules should be changed to
11 allow us to consider the reasonable ability to pay by
12 the governing entity for any raises given.
13 MS. SELF: So that would be affecting --
14 you're suggesting, then, an amendment to Section
15 13-28(d) as in dog, right? Because that's where it
16 says that the Commission shall review/compensate all
17 County -elected officials and appointed directors and
18 deputy directors so that their total salaries and
19 benefits have a reasonable relationship to compensation
20 in the public and private sectors. And then you could
21 put a comma, "provided that" --
22 MR. PAVAO: Well, not "provided that," but
23 "another consideration" --
24 MS. SELF: -- "provided that the Commission
25 can consider" -- "shall or may consider the County's
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1 ability to afford such salaries."
2 MR. PAVAO: I agree with you except for the
3 word "provided." I think it shouldn't be in there. It
4 should be just another consideration.
5 CHR. ONO: We could do that anyway, though.
6 MS. SELF: Well, at the end of "private
7 sector," you could just say "and" --
8 MR. PAVAO: "In addition to"?
9 MS. SELF: You want an extra sentence?
10 MR. PAVAO: No, no. All I'm saying is
11 that -- additional criteria. Besides what you already
12 said there, "An additional criteria should be a
13 reasonable" --
14 MS. SELF: You figure it out, then, where you
15 want to put it in, then.
16 MR. PAVAO: No, I agree with you that it
17 should be on (d) --
18 MS. SELF: This isn't just writing them a
19 letter. This is saying what you're proposing as a
20 charter amendment. So we're recommending charter
21 amendments, so Glynis could type it up for you guys,
22 but you need to state exactly what it is you want the
23 charter to say.
24 MR. PAVAO: Well, basically, what I'm saying
25 is that a consideration for giving a raise should be
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1 also based on the fact that we look at the reasonable
2 ability of the County to pay the raises. Amy, you're
3 the attorney, you put it into words. You know what I
4 mean?
5 MS. SELF: I know. I'm trying. I did put it
6 into words and you changed it. So, I'm now trying to
7 figure out exactly how you want it. If you don't
8 want --
9 MR. PAVAO: Basically, what I'm saying is that
10 a consideration should also be the ability to pay. I
11 mean, they come in here and they tell us they're $5
12 million short and we going try to give huge raises?
13 That's crazy.
14 CHR. ONO: Chair's comment. Aren't we able to
15 do that anyway without it being in writing?
16 MR. PAVAO: Not according --
17 CHR. ONO: It's our prerogative.
18 MR. PAVAO: Not according to what Amy said
19 earlier.
20 CHR. ONO: It's part of the decision-making,
21 but we're able to do that without any change in this
22 County Charter.
23 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, we are.
24 MR. BRILHANTE: You know, like we said
25 earlier --
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1
MR.
CAMPBELL: We did.
2
MR.
BRILHANTE: -- just because you get
3
appointed to
serve on the Salary Commission, it doesn't
4
mean you leave
your reasonableness at the door when you
5
walk into the
room.
6
MR.
CAMPBELL: Right.
7
MR.
BRILHANTE: When you make a decision, you
8
have to consider
all --
9
MR.
PAVAO: But, Bill, that's just the point.
10
When I mentioned
that earlier, Amy read to me that
11
that's not a
consideration because it's not in the
12
rules. So all
I'm trying to do is that if we're going
13
to do it and
so that we can appease the attorneys, have
14
it in the rules
so that we're not going to be accused
15
of, "Oh, you
cannot do that. It's not in the rules."
16
You know what
I'm saying?
17
MS.
SELF: I'm saying that it --
18
MR.
PAVAO: We getting blasted being
19
reasonable.
20
MR.
BRILHANTE: I'm not sure anybody is
21
blasting you
for being reasonable.
22
MR.
PAVAO: Scolding you. Tapping you, "You
23
not supposed
to do that."
24
MR.
BRILHANTE: Well, I think the reason Amy
25
provided information, you know, at the time she did was
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1 that information that the finance director provided to
2 us was pertinent, but if we were to go any further down
3 the road where we address something that was outside of
4 that
spectrum,
like,
"Well,
what's
the exact
impact on
5 Parks
and Rec.
as it
relates
to the
damage?"
to me I
6 think, just the
general input and
discussion
we had
7 with the finance
director, which
we've always
had
8 historically with our meetings with the finance
9 director, I think that's pertinent -- that's good
10 information. But when we start taking the next step
11 and going further down the road and questioning about
12 more specific type items, then I think that was the
13 cautionary note that Ms. Self provided to us.
14 So, going back, I think if we thought that the
15 finance director's information was outside the purview
16 of the Charter Commission, we probably wouldn't have
17 allowed it. But I think, like I said, we historically
18 allow her information because that is part of the
19 consideration that we provide.
20 MS. SELF: I guess, let me explain what I am
21 trying to put forth. It's the finance director's
22 authority to determine whether or not the County can
23 afford certain things. So if, for instance, when Deanna
24 came to this meeting -- and, actually, that question
25 was put to her if you presented the salaries that you
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1 were proposing, and Deanna said "It's up to you to make
2 that determination. It's up to me to find the money."
3 If she couldn't find the money, she would have said so.
4 So, it's kind of like out of your jurisdiction
5 because it's the finance director that makes that
6 determination. So the charter only says that you are
7 to compensate, to make sure that the salaries and
8 benefits have a reasonable relationship to compensation
9 in the public and private sectors. I read that to mean
10 so that the County does not fall behind in salaries to
11 be able to bring in good elected officials or good
12 appointed officials to run the County government.
13 MR. PAVAO: I understand that.
14 MS. SELF: That's the whole point of this.
15 Because you saw what happened before you guys came up
16 with increased salaries, it lagged behind for so long.
17 So, I think, what Deanna was telling you
18 before, during that meeting, was "You guys just focus
19 on trying to get these salaries up to where they should
20 be. Let me worry about the finance part of it." And I
21 know she would have told you that "No, there's no way
22 we can do that." As the finance director, she's the
23 one that reviews the whole County budget and makes the
24 County budget.
25 So, that's the point I'm trying to get across
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1 is that is not the only thing you should be looking at
2 because it's taken care of by another department.
3 MR. CAMPBELL: She did tell us again today
4 that there is some money there if we needed to give
5 some raises somewhere. She didn't say it in those
6 exact words, but she did say there's a little room
7 there. So I agree with what you said, still within her
8 purview. And we did consider it --
9 CHR. ONO: In the first round.
10 MR. CAMPBELL: We did, yes.
11 CHR. ONO: Florence?
12 MS. IKEDA: I believe if you make it too
13 specific, you will tie your hands. So if what we have
14 now still gives us the flexibility, that we should just
15 keep it the way it is. I don't want to tie ourselves
16 down by being specific. Having been in government for
17 30 years, I think the more general it is, the better it
18 is, but that's...
19 MR. PAVAO: Okay, I withdraw my comment,
20 then. I'm sorry for being so stubborn.
21 CHR. ONO: Is that sincere?
22 MR. PAVAO: No.
23 MR. BRILHANTE: We wouldn't expect anything
24 less of you.
25 CHR. ONO: No. Paula is going "No." Okay, the
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1 motion is withdrawn.
2 Robert's Rules of Order. Are we okay with
3 that?
4
MS. SELF:
Yes.
5
CHR. ONO:
We never had a second on it, did we?
6
MR. BRILHANTE:
He can withdraw it.
7
MS. SELF:
He can always withdraw, anyway, at
8
this point.
9
CHR. ONO:
So, we're not doing anything. Am I
10
correct?
11
MR. HIGGINS:
Well, I still say it's polite,
12
it's good business,
to respond to somebody who asks you
13
for a response.
14
CHR. ONO:
Yeah, we will.
15
MR. HIGGINS:
So, you got to respond to him.
16
And I think you can
make it simple by just saying that
17
there are issues regarding
the cost/benefit of 98, and
18
so it throws it in
their lap. So, at least they got a
19
response from us.
The response is that, "Well, maybe
20
this is too costly,
and we'll consider it down the
21
line," so --
22
CHR. ONO:
Okay.
23
MR. HIGGINS:
-- give them something to chew
24
on, and let's move
on.
25
CHR. ONO:
Okay. Do we need a motion on that?
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1 I don't believe so. Okay, I'm just going to draft
2 something up and send it out under the Chair's
3 signature. Good enough?
4 Need a motion?
5 MR. BRILHANTE: I would think so. You're
6 going to take action, right?
7 CHR. ONO: Yeah. Jim, make a motion, please.
8 MR. HIGGINS: Okay. I move that we make a
9 written response to the request from Chairman Adams and
10 that it includes a statement that there are certain
11 issues that we have regarding the cost/benefits of
12 proposal 98.
13 MR. CAMPBELL: Second.
14 MR. FRATINARDO: I second it. Oh, sorry.
15 CHR. ONO: Moved by Jim, seconded by Tom.
16 Any other discussion? If not, all those in
17 favor say, "Aye."
18 (All members responded affirmatively.)
19 CHR. ONO: Motion carried. We'll go ahead with
20 that.
21 What is the proper name of that amendment?
22 MR. HIGGINS: Oh, it's some --
23 MR. FRATINARDO: 98?
24 MS. SELF: No, it's not an act. That's for
25 the State Legislature. It's a bill or ordinance,
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1 actually. Where did I put it?
2 MR. FRATINARDO: Is it Bill 98?
3 MS. SELF: It was Bill 98, uh-huh.
4 CHR. ONO: Bill 98.
5 MS. SELF: I don't know what the ordinance
6 number is. I don't have a copy of that.
7 MR. BRILHANTE: We can get that information.
8 CHR. ONO: Okay. So, Glynis, I'll draft it
9 up and send it in, and you guys can chase down the
10 proper ID/name of the thing, okay?
11 Okay. Wow, that was interesting.
12 Okay. Under "New Business," "Election of
13 Salary Commission Chair and Vice -Chair." We've been
14 advised that the effective date of any new election is
15 going to be the beginning of next calendar year, which
16 is January lst; and for that reason, we're going to
17 postpone this item to our November meeting.
18 Any objections to that?
19 Okay. Not seeing any, that's what we'll do.
20 Deferred.
21 MR. BRILHANTE: Chair, you need a motion to
22 postpone that item.
23 CHR. ONO: Really? We do? Oh, okay.
24 Someone move.
25 MS. IKEDA: I so move.
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1 MR.
PAVAO:
So moved -- second.
2 CHR.
ONO:
Moved by Florence, seconded
3 by Milton.
Director William V.
4 All
those
in favor say "Aye."
5 (All
members
responded affirmatively.)
6 CHR.
ONO:
Okay. I hope nobody wanted
7 a discussion on that.
8 Okay. We've already had the briefing by the
9 finance director, real property tax.
10 And the next thing that pops up are these
11 items, "Discussion concerning the possible salary
12 adjustments beginning July 1, 2018 (position titles,
13 departments, current salaries, salaries of
14 subordinates,)" et cetera. Is that date right?
15 MS. SELF: They postponed it.
16 CHR. ONO: Yeah, we postponed it. It was a
17 handout that came from Department of Human Resources.
18 Isn't that what it was?
19 MR. BRILHANTE: I guess the question would be
20 the discussion concerning the possible salary
21 adjustments beginning July lst, 2019.
22 CHR. ONO: Right. Right. Okay.
23 Anyway, that's tied in with the next item,
24
which is
"Update concerning
bargaining unit pay
25
increases
by Human Resources
Director William V.
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1 Brilhante, Jr., (Reference memo dated April 18, 2018 to
2 Salary Commission Chair Hugh Y. Ono... transmitting a
3 chart of the collective bargaining pay increases for
4 the period July 1, 2017 -June 30, 2019 and July 1,
5 2020 -June 30, 2021, Bargaining Unit 01 and Bargaining
6 Unit 12."
7 This was presented to Commissioners at its
8 April 26, 2018 meeting, and as you recall, the director
9 of the Human Resources Department asked that we
10 consider it confidential.
11 Is that correct?
12 MR. BRILHANTE: That's correct.
13 And that information is provided in your
14 packet. It's entitled "BU Pay Increase Update," and
15 it's dated April 18, 2018. And if you look at the
16 second page, you can see the reference to the various
17 bargaining units and the salary increases associated
18 with those units and the dates that they will become
19 effective.
20 CHR. ONO: Okay. And this also includes the
21 next item, "Discussion on future salary recommendations
22 from a representative of the respective board or
23 commission for those appointed positions that report to
24 them" and whether we should or we shouldn't include
25 them. And there's a list of the positions whom these
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1 appointed officials that we oversee report to.
2 And this is what the Chair is going to
3 suggest, that we get a recommendation from the
4 Department of Human Resources. They have all the
5 information. I would like to request that information
6 as to their recommendation and the reasons why, that
7 that be made available at a future meeting for this
8 Salary Commission to undertake. At that meeting, we
9 can take appropriate action either to discuss, approve,
10 defer, or whatever it is. The intent is to put into
11 place any salary adjustments to begin on July lst of
12 2019, the beginning of the next calendar year; and if
13 we do it -- able to approve it in such a time, it would
14 appear in the County's budget process because the
15 budget is worked on from, I think, December through
16 March/April of 2019. And so, there's another layer of
17 public disclosure with that because it would appear as
18 a budget item.
19 Anyway, that's my suggestion. And with that,
20 I'll open the discussion. I've talked to Bill already,
21 whether he would be able to do that at a future
22 meeting -- and he said yes.
23 MR. PAVAO: I totally agree with the
24 Chairman. And maybe we should put that into a motion
25 and agree on it, or discussion, anyway.
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1 CHR. ONO: Sure.
2 MR. PAVAO: I agree. Totally agree.
3 CHR. ONO: Does that sound --
4 MS. IKEDA: Sounds reasonable.
5 CHR. ONO: -- okay with the rest of
6 the Commission, that at least we have a document to
7 work on that comes from an official source that has the
8 background to do that?
9 MR. FRATINARDO: Does it require a motion?
10 CHR. ONO: I would think it would be good to
11 get a motion on this.
12 MR. CAMPBELL: Clarification.
13 MR. PAVAO: Amy, ability to pay.
14 CHR. ONO: George, yes?
15 MR. CAMPBELL: Clarification. So are you
16 asking Human Resources to come up with those positions
17 which come under our purview which we should consider
18 for a raise based on what others are making --
19 subordinates that report to them -- in those areas, as
20 we have in the past, where we've tried to keep all
21 of -- the department heads and all the people that
22 report to them?
23 CHR. ONO: Yes, that's my intent. That was
24 my thinking, that they have the resources available to
25 look at the Collective Bargaining Agreements. The
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1 classifications are the excluded management/EM
2 positions that report to them, the other jurisdictions
3 across the State and the nation, and any other funny
4 kind of provisions that are included, you know, like
5 the firefighters have that subordinate level with that
6 built-in overtime provision. So, they're the best
7 resource for that.
8 MR. BRILHANTE: Just to be clear, the
9 information we will be able to provide is information
10 in relationship to compensation in reference to the
11 other public sector employees as well as private
12 sector. We're not going to be able to provide
13 information as to the County's ability to pay or
14 anything of that nature. That's your guys' purview.
15 All we will do is we can provide just a basic
16 recommendation as it relates to comparable salaries in
17 the public sector and private sector.
18 MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you.
19 MR. FRATINARDO: Based on pay parity --
20 parity in pay.
21 MR. CAMPBELL: That would be very helpful.
22 MR. BRILHANTE: Correct.
23 CHR. ONO: And I believe that, again, it
24 should include all the positions, whether there's an
25 adjustment on not, rather than just the ones that
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1 should be raised.
2 MS. IKEDA: So, this would include lower
3 positions that are not included in the collective
4 bargaining?
5 MR. BRILHANTE: No. All this is going to
6 include is salaries and wages for deputies, directors,
7 and elected officials. That's it.
8 CHR. ONO: Did we already receive a motion
9 on that?
10 MR. CAMPBELL: So moved.
11 MR. HIGGINS: We got to do better on this
12 one.
13 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. So let me try a motion
14 again.
15 CHR. ONO: Sure, George.
16 MR. CAMPBELL: As suggested by the Chair, I
17 move that we ask the Human Resources Department to put
18 together a proposal for comparison of both private and
19 government -sector positions that relate to those
20 positions that this Salary Commission gives raises for
21 as to where each of those positions stands relative to
22 the people that report to them.
23 CHR ONO: Okay. Everybody understand that?
24 Do we have a second?
25 MR. FRATINARDO: I second.
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1 CHR. ONO: Seconded by
2 Tom. Okay, moved by George, seconded by Tom.
3 Discussion on that?
4 MR. FRATINARDO: Vote.
5 CHR. ONO: Okay.
6 MR. HIGGINS: Did we put a date on it?
7 That's all.
8 CHR. ONO: We plan to do it at our next
9 meeting --
10 MR. HIGGINS: Sorry.
11 CHR. ONO: -- which is -- we have to talk
12 about when that's going to be scheduled, but it's
13 looking like we're going to try to do it October 9th
14 or 10th. Okay? But yeah, we're talking about that.
15 Okay. All those in favor say "Aye."
16 (All members responded affirmatively.)
17 CHR. ONO: Nay?
18 That motion is carried.
19 MR. CAMPBELL: It went through.
20 CHR. ONO: Yay.
21 MR. HIGGINS: You did good.
22 CHR. ONO: Want to have a party?
23 Okay. And so, whether or not we're going to
24
hear from these
people under the
last part on
the
25
bottom part of
the agenda would
be pertinent
to that
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1 discussion at that time.
2 MR. BRILHANTE: May I address that just for
3 clarification?
4 CHR. ONO: Sure.
5 MR. BRILHANTE: The topic is "Discussion on
6 future salary recommendations from a representative of
7 the respective board or commission for those appointed
8 positions that report to them."
9 Just for clarification, the Mayor, the County
10 Council, Corporation Counsel, Prosecuting Attorney,
11 they don't report to a board or commission; they're
12 their own entities.
13 CHR. ONO: Right.
14 MR. BRILHANTE: Whereas the Police
15 Commission, Fire Commission, Merit Appeals Board, and
16 the Liquor Commission, those are commissions
17 specifically identified in the charter as being
18 departments being directed by a commission.
19 CHR. ONO: Is it appropriate to ask the
20 Mayor's administration to comment on those positions that
21 report to them, like the Department of Public Works,
22 the Department of Environmental Management, Planning?
23 MR. BRILHANTE: That would be fine because
24 you're asking the Mayor as to what's his opinion as it
25 relates to his appointed department heads and deputies,
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1 as it relates to their salaries.
2 CHR. ONO: Okay. So we'll defer this to the
3 following meeting.
4 Okay. Moving on. "Update concerning the
5 Rules of the Salary Commission by Deputy Corporation
6 Counsel Amy Self."
7 If you're not tired of speaking, go ahead,
8 Amy.
9 MS. SELF: Okay. So, I think Glynis figured
10 out a way to show you yellow portions, proposed
11 changes? I don't see it in here. Is this the one?
12 CHR. ONO: So what we're talking about are
13 revising the rules of the Salary Commission, which is
14 something that we decided we needed to work on.
15 MS. SELF: Okay. I made certain changes, but
16 they were just concerning Sunshine Law. I'm trying to
17 find one.
18 CHR. ONO: I know. You've got a lot of paper
19 there, yeah. You have a legal background, so you're
20 better at that than we are.
21 MR. PAVAO: Mr. Chairman, didn't we agree
22 that these rules were not to be changed until after the
23 charter election, because then we could incorporate
24 whatever passed in the charter amendments?
25 CHR. ONO: I do recall that.
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1 Do you want to defer this?
2 MS. SELF: Yeah, because -- oh, no, here it
3 is. I have my own copy that I marked up.
4 The whole point of this is I've made certain
5 changes that will be discussed, but the thing that you
6 need to focus on, the Commission needs to focus on, if
7 you notice in the rules, there's no section on how you
8 arrive at the salaries that you determine; so if you
9 have rules to follow, then the next Commission would be
10 able to follow that in determining how they're going to
11 or what they're going to raise the salaries to, so the
12 method by which to determine the salary increases for
13 the positions that you determine their salaries for.
14 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, and I commented on that
15 particular thing. I think the process that the Chair
16 just suggested and that we just voted on to look at
17 next to the salaries is the one very possible method
18 that we can use; that, we, once a year or whatever time -
19 frame is appropriate, ask the charter to do just what
20 we asked Bill to do today, and then the Commission
21 takes the appropriate action, and let it go at that,
22 and not make it as -- we heard from the vice -chair a
23 while ago -- make it so specific that we can't work
24 with it.
25 So, I don't know what the legal language would
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1 be for that, Amy, but I would suggest something very
2 simple like that, that allows us to request the
3 information or just have it in there if it's going to
4 come from HR at a certain time, and then we take the
5 appropriate action based on the information that we
6 receive and the data that we collect.
7 CHR. ONO: Can I ask, how would this process
8 take place of revising these rules?
9 MS. SELF: We have to have a public hearing.
10 You have to publish it in the newspaper 30 days prior
11 to the public hearing. So then you have a public
12 hearing, you take the testimony, and you consider
13 public testimony, and then you determine whether you're
14 going to adopt the rules of that meeting or at a later
15 date, whatever date you're going to adopt them; then
16 you have to specify that date on the record.
17 CHR. ONO: Okay. Prior to all of that, in
18 preparing the revisions to the current rules, how does
19 that process work? Do we appoint a special committee
20 to do that, or do we come prepared at a meeting to make
21 those changes and then act on them by a motion and then
22 staff can make the appropriate changes?
23 MS. SELF: Yes. You can do it one of two
24 ways. You can set up a committee, but according to
25 Sunshine Law --
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1 MR. FRATINARDO: A PIG, right? Interaction
2 group. We had this discussion a while ago.
3 MS. SELF: So, what it would take would be
4 three meetings, essentially, because you have to set it
5 up at a public meeting -- your regular meeting -- and
6 describe the scope within which they are to work, and
7 then which members will be on the committee. They go
8 out, they do their work, and then at a subsequent
9 meeting, they will report back to the full Commission
10 on what they have determined, and there's no discussion
11 or deliberation at that point. And then at a
12 subsequent meeting after that -- these all have to be
13 public meetings -- at a subsequent meeting after that,
14 then the Commission can discuss the committee's
15 decision or determination and/or vote on it at that
16 point.
17 The other way is to just have the full
18 Commission -- like you said, they could come up with --
19 CHR. ONO: Come prepared.
20 MS. SELF: -- come prepared to have --
21 CHR. ONO: That's my preference.
22 MR. FRATINARDO: A question for -- I'm
23 sorry -- Amy. Did you mention about getting input from
24 the public also? Suggestions from the public? Because
25 anybody could make a --
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1 MS. SELF: For rule-making?
2 MR. FRATINARDO: For rule-making.
3 MS. SELF: Yes. That's why there has to be a
4 public hearing.
5 MR. FRATINARDO: So is that something the
6 Chair can appoint a hearing officer for that, where we
7 didn't have to all come together again? Is that --
8 MS. SELF: Well, no, you have to have a
9 public hearing.
10 MR. FRATINARDO: That's what I'm saying, a
11 public hearing.
12 MS. SELF: But first you guys have to
13 determine what you want your proposed amendments to
14 your rules to be. Once you have the proposed
15 amendments, then that has to get published -- goes to
16 the clerk's office, the notice. There's a whole
17 process under Chapter 91 for rule-making. So then, once
18 the notice goes out, you have your public hearing, you
19 listen to comments from the public, you take that into
20 consideration, and then you can either decide whether
21 you are going to adopt the proposed rules at that point
22 or at a later date, and you have to determine which
23 date that would be on.
24 Most times, depending on what kind of public
25 testimony you get back, you could either discuss it at
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7 are your rules.
8
MR.
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1 that public hearing
and go forward with adoption,
or if
2 you wanted to make changes,
then you would have
to go
3 through the process
again.
I don't know how long they've
4 MR. PAVAO:
Amy, I have a question.
These
5 were the draft rules
that you prepared that --
MR.
6 MS. SELF:
No, those are the rules.
Those
7 are your rules.
8
MR.
PAVAO:
Oh, these are the rules? These
9
have --
10
MS.
SELF:
I don't know how long they've
11
existed.
12
MR.
PAVAO:
Oh, so you haven't made any
13
revisions to
this?
14
MS.
SELF:
Yes, I have, but it's only things
15
that would make
it comply
with Sunshine Law.
16
MR.
PAVAO:
Okay. In the future, it would be
17
real helpful
for us --
because I read through this. It
18
would be real
helpful
for us if you would indicate your
19
revisions.
20
MS.
SELF:
We tried to do that, and it didn't
21
work out. I
thought
that --
22
MR.
PAVAO:
It didn't work out?
23
MR.
CAMPBELL: In Word you can do that.
24
MS.
SELF:
I know, but this wasn't even a
25
Word document.
This
thing is so old that they had
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1 to -- Glynis, what did you have to go through?
2 MR. BRILHANTE: It was a Wang document.
3 MR. CAMPBELL: Oh, Wang.
4 MS. SELF: You can tell by --
5 CHR. ONO: That's Chinese. Nobody
6 understands that.
7 MR. CAMPBELL: I still remember Wang.
8 MS. SELF: I don't even remember where this
9 came from because look at the chapters. It starts
10 with Chapter 200.
11 MR. PAVAO: The reason I asked is because I
12 saw the word "draft" across it, so I thought you had
13 prepared this.
14 MS. SELF: Well, I made certain changes
15 because they wouldn't show up -- I tried to red -line
16 it, but it wouldn't show up when we tried to print it.
17 So, I'll figure out a way to --
18 MR. PAVAO: Redo it so we can tell.
19 MS. SELF: I don't know. I think we're going
20 to have to completely reformat the whole thing because
21 I don't know why we have Chapter 200. That should all
22 be changed. The numbering should all be changed. And
23 I don't know who is going to do that, because I
24 certainly don't have time to do that kind of work.
25 It's not legal work.
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1 CHR. ONO: Anyway, the Chair's preference is
2 that we place this on the agenda and that we do it as a
3 committee as a whole. And so, this is not that big a
4 document. We can all take a look at it for revisions
5 that we would want to make and bring it to a meeting,
6 then do it at that meeting.
7 MR. CAMPBELL: Comment?
8 CHR. ONO: Sure.
9 MR. CAMPBELL: Last time, I think we did talk
10 about -- just to refresh everybody's memory, it says in
11 here we were going to meet at least annually, and I
12 think we decided we were going to change that to at
13 least quarterly.
14 MR. HIGGINS: Yes.
15 MR. CAMPBELL: And it appears to me that
16 there is a section in the back about how things are
17 going to get posted and where they're going to get
18 posted, and the County has a new process or website for
19 putting all the minutes and everything on it. And it
20 doesn't say anything about that in here, and I don't
21 think any of us are qualified to come up with that
22 information. Maybe, Bill, you can deal with that, but
23 I know there are new requirements and regulations for
24 that.
25 MR. BRILHANTE: In addition to your concerns,
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1 Commissioner Campbell, I think Commissioner Pavao
2 brought up a great issue as well. There is a great
3 likelihood that the proposed charter amendments in the
4 November 6 election will be passed, and according to
5 the information we got from the County Clerk's office,
6 those items will then become effective the next day,
7 November 7th. So, that's a short time away.
8 So what I would recommend is, any revisions,
9 we incorporate that information, if those items pass,
10 into any revisions we have to the rules because that
11 will change some of our requirements. And I think
12 maybe tabling this discussion until a subsequent
13 meeting after November 7th would be most appropriate at
14 this time so we can address all the items at one time
15 instead of piecemeal and something gets left out. And
16 that would be my recommendation going forward.
17 MR. CAMPBELL: Good point.
18 CHR. ONO: Is everybody fine with that?
19 MR. HIGGINS: Um -hum.
20 CHR. ONO: Okay. That's what we'll do. I was
21 going to ask, Bill, at some appropriate time, if you
22 could send these rules out to us for some of us that
23 are so eager to start on it.
24 MR. BRILHANTE: This packet includes a set of
25 the rules, so if you look at your tab "Rules of the
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1 Salary Commission," you'll see.
2
MR.
CAMPBELL: And for those of us who got
3
written stuff
from Glynis, we did get them.
4
CHR.
ONO: Are we allowed to take this home?
5
MR.
BRILHANTE: Yeah. This is public
6
information.
7
CHR.
ONO: Oh, no, I mean the folder.
8
MS.
SELF: No, she doesn't want you to take
9
the folder home,
but just take the rules with you.
10
CHR.
ONO: You mean pull it out?
11
MS.
SELF: Yeah, you can take it out.
12
CHR.
ONO: Wow.
13
MS.
SELF: It's in that green folder.
14
MR.
CAMPBELL: I got a copy in the mail,
15
so...
16 CHR. ONO: Okay, I will do that.
17 MR. CAMPBELL: The Chair doesn't get one?
18 CHR. ONO: The Chair doesn't know how to read.
19 MS. SELF: What I am suggesting, this is such
20 an old document, somebody would physically have to go
21 through and retype everything. And we tried to convert
22 it; it didn't work because, as you can tell, there are
23 things that don't even come out correctly.
24 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes.
25 MS. SELF: And when you're adopting rules, if
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1 you're amending the rules, you have to provide it in --
2 oh, Glynis, what is it called when you provide it --
3 show strike -outs?
4 MR. BRILHANTE: Ramseyer.
5 MS. SELF: You're supposed to provide a
6 ramseyer of copies so they know what you are changing
7 in a specific rule.
8 What I am suggesting is we do a whole new set
9 of rules and change the numbering system and
10 everything, clean the whole thing.
11 MR. PAVAO: When I first saw this, my initial
12 thought was, wow, this is a crappy printer.
13 MS. SELF: Yeah, it is.
14 MR. PAVAO: But it's not the printer -- it's
15 the actual format.
16 MS. SELF: We tried to convert it and it
17 didn't work.
18 MR. BRILHANTE: Just going forward, again,
19 our crack staff, Ms. Yamada, has offered to retype this
20 document in its entirety in a Word document so that we
21 can go forward from that.
22 CHR. ONO: Oh, thanks, Bill. You didn't have
23 to do that.
24 MS. SELF: But I think to make it easier --
25 CHR. ONO: He will probably delegate it to
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1 Allan.
2 MS. SELF: -- when we publish it, and for
3 purposes of the Chapter 91 process, I think we need to
4 completely -- don't call it Chapter 200. I think the
5 numbering system --
6 CHR. ONO: Yeah, we'll leave the formatting up
7 to the people who know how to format it.
8 MS. SELF: Yeah.
9 CHR. ONO: We will be mostly dealing with the
10 content.
11 Okay. So that's the way that will work.
12 MR. PAVAO: Mr. Chairman, can we request that
13 whoever is going to do it, do it in a new format that
14 it be mailed to us?
15 CHAIR ONO: Yeah.
16 MR. BRILHANTE: Well, what we're proposing to
17 do is we're not going to make any substantive changes
18 to this document; we're just going to reformat it into
19 a Word document so that, moving forward, when we do
20 amendments or changes or revisions, then we can easily
21 incorporate them. But the document we type now is
22 going to be in the exact same format.
23 MR. PAVAO: But this is hard to read.
24 MR. BRILHANTE: There's another one in there.
25 Look in your green folder. There's a better --
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1 MR. PAVAO: Oh, really? Not the same one?
2 MR. BRILHANTE: Left side. Right there.
3 CHR. ONO: Paula, help him.
4 Okay. Next item, the agenda. Okay. Can do,
5 right? Next item.
6 Okay. Opportunity for Commissioners to
7 request items for the next agenda. Anybody?
8 Harold, do you have anything?
9 MR. DOW: Yes. I would like to know what, if
10 any, feedback we've had from boards and commissions or
11 individuals regarding the salary increases that we've
12 provided. It seems to me that I read or heard
13 somewhere that Bill had sent out memos or circulars
14 regarding inviting comments about salaries. Is that
15 correct?
16 MR. BRILHANTE: No, we have not done that.
17 The only information we've provided to you is
18 information regarding what the current status of the
19 bargaining unit agreements are. And that's that
20 documentation dated April 18th, that document.
21 MR. DOW: Did you invite comments by boards
22 and commissions about the salaries of the officials?
23 MR. BRILHANTE: If that's something the
24 Commission would like us to do.
25 CHR. ONO: Remember the item that appears on
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1 the bottom of the second page showing the list of the
2 Mayor and all those?
3 MR. DOW: Yeah.
4 CHR. ONO: The different commissions? That was
5 the intent of that, to discuss about having them appear
6 before the Commission to allow us to ask them those
7 questions or for them to come prepared to address
8 those.
9 MR. DOW: Are they going to be asked?
10 CHR. ONO: We can do that.
11 MR. DOW: Okay.
12 I'm also interested to know if there are any
13 full-time County employees that have no one who's
14 advocating for their compensation or who have no
15 structure in place for compensation.
16 CHR. ONO: Would you say that again? I didn't
17 quite get that.
18 MR. DOW: Okay. I'll tell you my specific.
19 In testimony that we've heard before, there were deputy
20 attorneys in the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney and
21 Corporation Counsel who don't seem to have any
22 structure or any entity that advocates for their
23 salaries. I want to know if that's true or not, and I
24 would like to know whether it would be preferable that
25 such advocacy or structure be created.
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MS. SELF: For the Prosecutor's Department
and the Corporation Counsel, this Commission determines
the salaries of the prosecutor and the corporation
counsel and then their deputies or their first -- their
assistant corporation counsel and assistant prosecutor.
For the rest of the deputies in those two
offices, the salaries are determined by either the
Prosecutor or the Corporation Counsel, but in the
charter, the salaries can only be up to -- is it 38
percent, 39 percent, something like that, of the
prosecutor's salary or the corporation counsel's
salary? What is it?
than 50.
remember.
MR. BRILHANTE: No greater than 90, no less
MS. SELF: Okay, you tell them. I don't
MR. BRILHANTE: I believe it's no greater
than 90 percent of the higher of the two, prosecutor or
corporation counsel and no less than 50.
MR. DOW: So, it's up to the corporation
counsel or the prosecuting attorney what the salary of
each individual --
KAT-) TJ T-) T T L7 T
NTE. Correct.
-- deputy attorney is?
MR. BRILHANTE: Correct.
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1 MS. SELF: Um -hum.
2 MR. DOW: Okay. Well, I guess I was going to
3 try to invite discussion as to whether that should be
4 changed and a more formal structure be put in place.
5 MR. BRILHANTE: That would require a charter
6 amendment.
7 MR. DOW: Okay. Well, it's something that I
8 would like to suggest we convey to the Charter
9 Commission Committee.
10 CHR. ONO: I'll put it on the agenda.
11 MR. DOW: Okay.
12 CHR. ONO: Okay. Any other item? If not, I
13 have one. The Chair would like to place overtime on
14 the agenda for discussion. And part of the genesis to
15 that is I'm aware of some horrendous overtime that is
16 taking place by some of the department heads that is
17 astronomical and it would, I think, be interesting
18 discussion.
19 Okay. Not being -- yeah.
20 MR. PAVAO: This issue on overtime, it's only
21 related to what the compensation should be for the
22 person above. Is that correct? Or just the question
23 of overtime in general?
24 CHR. ONO: Yeah, just for the positions that
25 we oversee.
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1 MR. PAVAO: Okay.
2 CHR. ONO: Okay. It's just a discussion. I
3 don't know where it's going to go, but it has to be
4 agendized.
5 Okay. Next meeting. Okay, I would like to
6 suggest a three-hour meeting on either October the 9th
7 or the 10th. It would be in this room.
8 Does that work for everybody? 9th?
9 MS. IKEDA: 9th. I'm not here on the 10th.
10 MR. DOW: What day of the week is that?
11 MR. CAMPBELL: Tuesday.
12 CHR. ONO: It's a Tuesday.
13 MS. SELF: Tuesday.
14 CHR. ONO: Okay. Work? That's great.
15 Okay, next meeting 9:00 a.m. October the 9th.
16 MR. PAVAO: 9:00?
17 CHR. ONO: Yeah. I think we're going to need a
18 three-hour meeting unless you want to go home after
19 lunch.
20 MR. PAVAO: How about 10:00 and go to 1:00?
21 I'm just thinking about traffic.
22 CHR. ONO: No, I don't like your idea.
23 MR. PAVAO: We get tons of traffic out there.
24 CHR. ONO: At 9:00?
25 MR. PAVAO: Yeah.
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1 CHR. ONO: 9:30?
2 MR. PAVAO: No.
3
CHR.
ONO:
9:30 doesn't work?
4
MR.
PAVAO:
No, 9:30 works.
5
CHR.
ONO:
Okay. If 9:30 will make Milton
6
happy, it will
be 9:30.
7
MR.
PAVAO:
It will make me extremely happy.
8
CHR.
ONO:
Okay. We'll show some appreciation
9
at our next meeting.
9:30, okay? I think we can get
10
it done within
that
time. It would be in this room
11 here.
12 Okay? There being nothing else, I would like
13 to thank the staff again. Glynis, thank you. She
14 works really hard, I tell you, Glynis. And thank you
15 for attending Teri, Allan, Paula, Michele and...
16 MR. BRILHANTE: Jenny.
17 CHR. ONO: Jenny. How can I forget?
18 Nancy, too, and your photographer, your
19 cameraman. Hope you guys had a good time.
20 Okay, motion to adjourn.
21 MR. PAVAO: So moved.
22 CHR. ONO: Second?
23 MS. IKEDA: Second.
24 CHR. ONO: All those in favor, "Aye."
25 (All members responded affirmatively.)
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1 CHR. ONO: Meeting adjourned.
2 ( The meeting was adjourned at 11:46 a.m.)
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1 STATE OF HAWAII
2 ss_
3 COUNTY OF HAWAII
4
5 I, TERI HOSKINS, a certified court
6 reporter in the State of Hawaii, do hereby certify
7 that the foregoing pages are a true and correct
8 transcription of the proceedings in the above matter.
9
10 Dated this 1st day of October, 2018.
11
12
13
14 Teri HoskV RMR, CSR No. 452
15
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25
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Ms. Teri Hoskins, Certified Court Reporter, transcribed the aforementioned proceedings of the
Salary Commission at its meeting held on September 17, 2018.
Glynis Yamada, Secretary, Salary Commission, had incorporated some minor
formatting/housekeeping revisions throughout the transcript.
Respectfully Submitted,
iiiitigtqaMad(0
Glynis Yamada, Secretary
APPROVED:
Hugh Y. Ono, P. E., Chair
Salary Commission