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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN CHARTER 2018-11-09 (2018-2020)Hawaii County Charter Commission 5th Session West Hawai`i Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawai`i November 9, 2018 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Hawaii County Charter Commission was ORDER: called to order at 1:33 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Mr. Douglass Shipman Adams, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Absent: Also Present: Mr. Douglass Shipman Adams, Chair Ms. Jennifer Zelko-Schlueter, Vice Chair Ms. Michelle Galimba, Commissioner Mr. Paul K. Hamann, Commissioner Ms. Sarah H. Rice, Commissioner Mr. Christopher John Imiloa Roehrig, Commissioner Ms. Donna Mae Springer, Commissioner Ms. Bobby Jean Leithead Todd, Commissioner Mr. William Carthage Bergin, Commissioner Mr. Kevin D. Hopkins, Commissioner Ms. Marcia A. K. Saquing, Commissioner Mr. J Yoshimoto, Commission Attorney Mr. Jon Henricks, Commission Analyst Ms. Shannon Magnuson, Commission Secretary Ms. Wendy Baez, Legislative Assistant Ms. Muramoto, Council Services Coordinator (Hilo Courtesy Site) STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of FROM THE PUBLIC business, Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. ON AGENDA ITEMS: The Chair called John Replogle to testify. John Replogle: Communication No. 21 CA -7 in opposition and Communication No. 17, CA -3 in support. Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 JOHN REPLOGLE: MR. REPLOGLE: Okay, I am sorry, what was your question? CHR. ADAMS: If you could provide your name and then identify the agenda items that you are going to speak on, and then it is three minutes per agenda item. MR. REPLOGLE: Okay, thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. MR. REPLOGLE: My name is John Replogle and I am from Ka`u. I am going to speak on the Carbon idea and the Open Space. So first I would start, I support having a Commission on carbon reduction within the County. I believe that this is a very important paramount thing that needs to be taken care of. I realize it is very divisive and people believe it or don't believe it but I think here in the State, we have seen over the last couple of years things have changed and one of the climate change things is that when rains come in, they come in and they sit and they dump huge volumes where in the past as the rain came, a lot of rain fell even created flooding but they moved. Now they come and just the way the weather patterns are, they sit and just dump like at Waiaa in Kona apparently the other night they had four inches an hour fall. That is a lot of rain. A lot of water. I think we all as citizens of the planet, have to do everything we can to help mitigate what we have done with carbon which is helping to promote this climate change situation. The one suggestion I would have for that Commission would be, I think there should be an outreach portion or obligation of that Commission to look in to how they can educate the public, our fellow citizens within the County more about climate change and things we can do to help put it off. It is almost like to do nothing is not going to help us and hopefully doing something will help us. I don't know where we are at right now but the U.N. (United Nations) report on Climate Change paints a very dark picture. I would rather do something then just let it go. Anyway, that is why I support the climate change measure. Now to the Open Space, the PONC fund, I oppose the idea of reducing those funds and I am just going to go on a little bit about it but the people of this County voted for it. We voted for it twice that I can remember. We did the petitions twice. The first time we did the petitions, the County said oh no, that was no good. You have to redo it again. We redid it and that time it came down to, we might not get it done in time to get it on the ballot, and then there was a whole thing about how to present the question to the public on the ballot so it could be easily understood. Yes, I am for the two percent, no, I am not for it. Simple, but it was an issue. Anyway, Page 2 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 it passed and it began to happen and then it was suspended, and then it was forced to be brought back up for a vote again and again the people passed it. And the point I want to make here is the people of this island, I believe, do not want, we do not want our island to end up like Maui and Oahu, and Kaua`i where everything is oven -un, local people are out of the picture. Not to bring in other issues, but in housing, housing is getting to be out of reach for local families to even live here and so this is, this Open Space Fund is an opportunity for us to protect what we have. I heard it stated that the choices weren't even good choices. Those choices that have been made so far, have not been made by one person I am sure you all know. They have been made by a lot of people. A lot goes in to seeing if it qualifies. If a landowner doesn't want to sell, they are out of it. It is no longer pursued. It has got to be a mutually accepted thing so the point being is the people of this County, this is our vision for our island, to have these places protected. The fund has not been used yet, but it could be used to protect agricultural lands which are important. It could be used to protect the fishing trail down to the coast so people can go and fish like they always did and not be squeezed out by development. I feel that looking at that Open Space Fund sitting there with 16 million dollars in it is really difficult for County employees, politicians to look away from that. It is like a low hanging fruit. Lets get that and do this. I believe if there had been no two percent fund, that money would have been spent already. It wouldn't even be here. CHR. ADAMS: Sir, please summarize. MR. REPLOGLE: I am sorry? CHR. ADAMS: Please summarize. MR. REPLOGLE: Yes. Okay. In summary, I know for a fact that a County employee for misbehavior, misconduct threatening activities was asked to go and get some help and when he refused, he was suspended and he stayed home for an entire year with full pay and when he returned he had a month's vacation, had all his medical through that year, and he just went back to work, and I don't know where all of you come from but I have never heard of a business that did that. Take a year off full pay, everything, come back in January and carry on. And I know this is not an isolated incident. I feel the County would be better served if somehow the Charter Commission could figure out a way to do away with this type of waste. I know it is only one employee, but there could be more. I don't know all what's going on but... CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Page 3 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MR. REPLOGLE: Yes. My point is there's funds that are just being squandered within the County and we shouldn't be doing that and this is the voice of the people. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Sir. MR. REPLOGLE: Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: We do have another request for testimony in the Kona chambers. We will go with Hilo for two testifiers and then we will come back to Kona. Hilo? MS. MURAMOTO: Thank you Chair. Our two testifiers are Cory Hardin and Sammie Stanbro-Olsen. Cory Harden: Communication No. 3.1.1, comment. CORY HARDEN: MS. HARDEN: Good Afternoon Commissioners. Cory Harden speaking for myself. I want to thank you for your volunteer service. I am speaking about Communications, Agenda Item No. 3 and Reports Item No. 1, the two percent land fund. And I really urge you to keep the land fund strong. We need to beat developers to the draw. They have had their way with most of the other islands and now they are coming here. Have five requests, one is keep the rate at two percent. Almost two-thirds of voters supported that rate of two percent and they did it three times. Land is costly and it is just getting more costly. I mean we are looking at large acreages of beautiful, unique, and significant places. You won't get them for cheap. Currently not all of the fund is used. But the problem is not too much money. The problem is too little staff to supply the time, energy, and expertise to line up matching funds to do required surveys and studies and negotiate with sellers. More on staff later. Second request, consider a cap of 20 million but only if there is more staff or just don't have a cap because there are many, many more places in need of protection. Third request, keep the covenant that requires that the two percent lands stay that way in perpetuity. This permanent protection was the intent of many voters who supported the land fund and if the lands can eventually change hands, there's going to be very few places that are going to offer matching funds and there is not going to be a lot of community people who will work to save and maintain the land fearing it is going to end up with a hotel on it or something. If there are problems with managing and maintaining lands, that can be handled by more staff and problems like doing flood control and improving access can be Page 4 I-Iawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 handled by memorandums of understanding. You don't need title changes. Fourth request, hire staff under the Finance Department and paid with Open Space Funds. Their duties should involve only existing and future Open Space lands, duties like acquiring land, finding matching funds, maintaining lands with maintenance fund money, obtaining and supervising maintenance contracts, and supporting the Open Space Commission. Last request, expand uses of the maintenance fund to fund toilet facilities, small buildings for education and storage, roads, trails, and paths, waterlines, drinking fountains, disabilities compliance, and maintenance contracts with grantees who are doing maintenance. So please ensure we can save our land before it is too late. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much. Next testifier. We cannot hear you. Sammie Stanbro-Olsen: Comm. No. 3.1.1, comment. SAMMIE STANBRO-OLSEN: MS. STANBRO-OLSEN: Oh, is it on? Other Commissions, oh, do I have to repeat? Okay. My name is Sammie Stanbro-Olsen. I came to this island in 1964 and finally actually moved here 1992. I have watched it change. I have watched all of the hard work that people have done to keep this island Hawai`i and not let it go the way of the other islands and everybody that visits here comments on wow, how did you keep this place the way that it is? It has been a lot of hard work, you'll hear about the three times that the Open Space has gone up for vote and been unanimous, you need to know that even before that happened, we had a poll done that was very, very complete. It was done by off island mainland company and it came out with a recommendation of the two percent over one percent. These are people that not necessarily voted but it was a poll that was done of the entire island, so that you know adds to our voting as well. The Commission, the two percent has been in existence since 2005, it is almost 14 years although only 14 properties have been purchased and now there is, as you know, the 16 million sitting in the fund. Why isn't the County buying the land? The question is really pertinent since the land fund was mandated by over, well, by 63 percent of the voters and as I said a few times and as you will hear that today, but also from this poll that was done before we even got it on the ballot. The acquisition process takes time for these lands and the Open Space and Natural Resources have to be vetted through PONC and hopefully need to have the recommendation to the Mayor's office and then after that it has to be a Resolution from a Council Member to direct the Director of Finance to acquire the property and staff finally gets to go to work. The staff contacts Page 5 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 property owners, conducts appraisals, land surveys, flora, fauna, and looks for matching funds. The staff work can take a long time and if the staff is pulled off on the other projects because it is just part of the finance department, it can take even longer and acquisitions can be lost. This is why there is so much money in the fund and opportunities are not being acquired. We need a full time staff position to be created so we can fulfill the wishes of the voters. We probably should have done this in the first place if we would have thought that the County would have been more diligent in following through with the will of the voters to get these lands purchased. Do not reduce the two percent fund please. The Charter can be changed to provide the salary for the staff dedicated from the administration from the two percent land fund program and this would save money for the finance department. We really need to consider having this person that is dedicated right to this particular amount of money and this being paid. Do not reduce the land fund and do not put a cap on it. We have no idea when someone that isn't selling their land will open the land up at a later date. CHR. ADAMS: Please summarize. MS. STANBRO-OLSEN: Yes. You have before you a really good letter from Trust for Public Land. We really support what they have written to their national... and they deal with this on all islands. They have dealt with it here with us. Listen to what they have to say. They are really smart and in closing I would just like to say that all of you live on this island. All of you benefit from what we have done so far. Please continue to help us with what we want to do in the future. Mahalo. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If I may just make a statement as the Chair before we continue with our public statements. This is a Commission that is dealing with serious matters, the Charter of our County. So when we have meetings, we require as a part of our rules that we maintain proper courtesy and respect to all of our speakers, members of the public, or members of the Commission, or our guests, so I would ask for decorum to be maintained. This is not entertainment. This is the people's business and so I appreciate that. Thank you. Coming back to Kona, we have Ms. Hecht who is speaking. If you could provide us the Items that you will be speaking on please. Debbie Hecht: Communication No. 3.1.1, in opposition. Page 6 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 DEBBIE HECHT: MS. HECHT: My name is Debbie Hecht. I am the campaign coordinator for the Save our Lands Citizen's Committee and I will be speaking on the Open Space, on the Communication on the two percent land fund. So, I have been the campaign coordinator since 2005 when we collected 9,600 signatures to get the issue on the ballot the first time when it was first approved by 63% of voters. Three times voters approved this measure so it is pretty much a mandate at 63%. I was also a member appointed by Mayor Kenoi to the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Commission where I served. We are proposing two changes to the Charter. We are against reducing the two percent land fund amount, we are against putting a cap on the two percent land fund, we say no to reducing the maintenance fund amount, and we say no to removing the protective covenant as suggested by Mayor Harry Kim so the County can sell the two percent lands. We believe that this will one, diminish or cut off completely the matching funds of which we use 33% in order to acquire these properties so far, we also feel that the County could be opening themselves up to lawsuits because it is not the donor's intent to donate for instance on O`oma, the private donor, two million dollars and then the County would go to sell it, that is not his intent for it to then go into the general fund. Also U.S. Fish and Wildlife donates or gives matching funds for endangered species and there are covenants that go along with those donations, Legacy Lands also donates money or contributes matching funds, so we think that could open the County up for lawsuits. Definitely ask to increasing staff and increasing the scope of the maintenance fund so that it can include toilet facilities, paths, roads, small buildings for maintenance and for educational purposes. We do believe there was a time with Ken Van Burgen and Alex where the land fund was really humming along, they acquired three properties that year, that's almost 14 years and only 14 properties have been acquired. If staff was paid from the proceeds from the two percent land fund, and dedicated just for the maintenance fund and just for the two percent acquisitions, I think this program would really hum along and fulfill the mandate of 63% of the voters. So we ask you to do that. I gave you all a packet. I handed it out. We also e-mailed it. There is the land fund process with a map of what's been done, a list of the acquisitions, so you can see how important the matching funds are about 33% of the money spent, and then also the two proposed Charter Amendments, one on the maintenance fund again which is to include rent and leasing toilet facilities, small structures, oh, and it also takes it out of the Department of Parks and Recreation and puts it into Finance which I think it is more consistent. CHR. ADAMS: Ms. Hecht, please summarize. Page 7 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MS. HECHT: Okay, and then the other is to not cap the land fund and also to expand the use of the land fund to pay for staff which would save money for the Department of Finance. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. We have testimony from Hilo. MS. MURAMOTO: Yes. Our next two testifiers are Deborah Ward and Gary Harrold. CHR. ADAMS: Yes, and if we could know the agenda items that they will be speaking on please. Deborah Ward: Communication No. 3.1.1, comment. DEBORAH WARD: MS. WARD: My name is Deborah Ward. I will be speaking today about the Public Land Fund, the two percent fund. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. MS. WARD: I am Chair of Sierra Club and I am speaking on my own but we together as Sierra Club members have worked for the last 12 years to support the two percent land fund and collect signatures to help pass it. We have worked at every opportunity to refresh and renew our commitment to supporting the land fund and during the last six years Sierra Club has worked with the Ka' CI community and the fishermen to acquire the Kahuku property commonly known as Road to the Sea. We have motivated community members eager to utilize the maintenance fund to protect, educate, and preserve these important lands. It is a very slow process. It did take at least six years and without the funds from the County we never could have aligned with U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the Legacy Lands Commission. Both of whom contributed significantly in order to make the purchase possible. If we were to reduce the covenant so that the lands could be then resold, we would open ourselves up to all kinds of litigation and I think it would completely crash the idea that we have worked so hard to obtain. So why am I here today? To ask you to strengthen the two percent land fund. Don't reduce the amount and don't put a cap on it. Please strengthen it by adding Hawai`i County senior staff that would concentrate on the administration of the land fund and the quarter percent administration fund and actually get that money spent. The salary could be paid out of the two percent land fund and this would be an ideal situation where the finance department within the County would not have to expend extra money to pay for that staff position. That position would be paid for by the two percent. Page 8 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 This would create a win-win situation. Only 14 of the 180 proposed lands so far have been acquired, that's 14 out of 14 years, and with dedicated staff, more of these lands could be acquired. If we pay the Finance Department staff with the fund it would reduce the County's salaried employees and already the National Park's Service is helping to manage these lands, 175 mile long Ala Kahakai trail would attract ecotourism which are light on the land for multiple trips and costal hikes around the island as many of our members do today. MS. MURAMOTO: You have 30 seconds. MS. WARD: Communities really love these acquisitions. They are excited about them. They want them because it preserves the beauty of our island and it provides access to the coastline. Much of which is being diminished. Communities come together around these lands, they want to help, they want to help maintain them, and we have non-profit organizations who have proposed these properties and are willing to be stewards in their community. So we ask you, please listen to what 60% of the voters have said three times. Support the land fund, preserve our treasured lands, and make Hawaii County one of the most beautiful places in the world. Mahalo. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Ms. Ward. Gary Harrold: Communication No. 3.1.1, Support. GARY HARROLD: MR. HARROLD: Hello. My name is Gary Harrold, I am a lifetime member of the Sierra Club, homeowner here in Hilo and I am very grateful that you are listening to our concerns. I support strengthening land acquisitions, support strongly the two percent land fund and the acquisition of these lands are paramount for our environmental health, for our spiritual health, for our physical health, and in closing I would just like to say that the maintenance facilities should be expanded so that we do have toilets and trails and water and maintenance. Thank you for listening. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. I believe we have two other testifiers from Hilo. MS. MURAMOTO: Chair we actually have three more. Our next two are Rick Warshauer and Shelley Mahi-hanai. Page 9 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Again I would ask you to provide your names, identify the agenda items that you are speaking to, and acknowledge that you have three minutes per agenda item. Thank you. Rick Warshauer: Communication No. 3.1.1, in opposition and commenting. RICK WARSHAUER: MR. WARSHAUER: My name is Rick Warshauer. I am a long time resident of Volcano. I have spent most of my life on the Big Island but I grew up on three different islands. Since that time I have seen huge changes in the landscape and the special places on all of them. CHR. ADAMS: Sir, if you could, sir, the agenda item you are speaking to please. MR. WARSHAUER: I am talking primarily on the PONC. I have a comment on another one later. Sorry. These changes have happened because of one of our largest industries chopping up the aina and selling it off to people from somewhere else. The PONC has risen in response on this island to those trends and it is the public's way of identifying areas that they feel are very special to them and a process for acquiring them for public purposes. This is really important to balance out the loss of our `aina that is going on wholesale. I oppose some of the changes that are proposed by the Charter Commission and would like to address several of them. One of them is removing the protective deed restrictions. The prospects of having permanence to the land that is acquired allows us to have shared funding from other sources. It also allows us to have partners from the community to help in the management. I serve on both the PONC and on the State's equivalent Legacy Lands, but I am not speaking for them. But in those positions, I have seen the importance of having shared funding and how the cooperative efforts of all of the parties in gathering the land for permanent protection enhances the ability of whatever funds you have to be leveraged for more acquisition capacity. Do not take that away. It will just pull the rug out from under it. I also oppose the cap on the PONC Fund and I strongly oppose the reduction of the two percent funding amount and a reduction of the maintenance fund. The maintenance fund is a crucial element and I strongly support using those funds to enhance the management of the landscape. These lands are coming without dedicated funds. MS. MURAMOTO: You have 30 seconds. MR. WARSHAUER: And it is good to have the PONC funds directed towards management of the land. I also strongly encourage the use of PONC funds to hire permanent staff dedicated to operating the fund and Page 10 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 acquiring the lands. I would very much like to see a change in the maintenance fund so that the whole process is operated within the Department of Finance. Using the Department of Parks and Recreation to administer it has pretty much crippled the ability of the maintenance fund to do its job. There is just not enough coordination and prioritization given. I also support Communication No. 7 related to climate change. All over the Country, municipalities and States are stepping up to where the Feds have fallen back and Hawai`i County should do everything they can to support these efforts. If you have any questions on any of it, I will be glad to answer them. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony Sir. Our next testifier. MS. MURAMOTO: Our final testifier is Dwight Vicente. Shelley Mahi-hanai: Communications 1.9, 7.6, 3, 5, 16, 6, 3.1.1, 17, and 1.7.1, commenting. SHELLEY MAHI- HANAI: MS. MAHI-HANAI: Okay, I guess I will go ahead and begin. My name is Shelley Mahi-hanai. The first thing I wanted to speak about is the climate change issue. And I just wanted to let everybody know while these Charters are going from 2018-2020 so a Scientific American Magazine along with National Geographic, they have done articles on ocean mining and we are the closest coastal impact. We have had ongoing pretty much terrible experiments going on here in the Big Island and other islands on putting toxic waste from ocean mining into cement or fertilizer or just dumping it into the ocean. But basically the latest Scientific American Magazine did state that they are looking at hopefully approving their environmental codes and that ocean mining would begin in 2020. So this is a very serious matter and I just want to kind of throw that in the mix because without our oceans and the health of our oceans, I believe this will seriously affect climate change and especially the removal of manganese nodules, these are 80 year old, uh, 80 million year old eco systems and we actually have not determined what the true roles of the manganese nodules are. I personally have a hypothesis that it will damage the critical ionic balance of the ocean and the international seabed authority in a query that I was allowed to do through the U.N. law of the sea in New York in a series of questions, the contractors still have not come up with satisfactory answers to sustainable fisheries nor how much waste would be produced from all of these various types of mining that they want to do. You are looking at 28 or 29 permits for us in particular, we are looking at of course mining all throughout the Pacific North and South Hemispheres but for (in Page 11 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 a threat)—when I was working with Patsy Mink in Congress, our case was Case No. 17 in the Seabed dispute's Chamber which we had to get according to Patsy Mink five natives of the closest coastal impact. Even though we weren't signed on to the law of the sea, Case No. 17 still did go through and this is in particular for an area that runs from California BaJa 2,000 mile stretch. MS. MURAMOTO: You have thirty seconds. MS. MAHI-HANAI: Okay, 2,000 mile stretch to about 500 nautical miles Southeast of the Big Island greatly affecting our pelagic nursery cycles and what not, so please do consider that and maybe some upcoming Charters to stop ocean mining and keep ocean mining ships out of our ports and waste off our lands. Mahalo. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. MS. MAHI-HANAI: And then the next thing that I would like to talk about is having to do with the appointment of the Commission's authority to discipline the Chief of Police and the Fire Commission's authority to discipline the Fire Chief. One thing I do know is that I did speak with the Chief of Police at the last Police Commissioner's Hearing and I asked them if they could please do a ban on neck strikes of juveniles and females which is mentioned on page 6-12. Also that the manual also describes that they are allowed to do. The police department under the authority of the Chief of Police is allowed to do use of force up to lethal force and this is all under pain compliance and I believe that if we were to reeducate and retrain our police department, I believe that the Chief of Police would have a much easier job and there would be less liability going on with police brutality here on the Big Island. I do believe that right now I was told that the Police Commission cannot interfere in administrative affairs but that is a real big problem when you have unconstitutional types of deliberate indifference and other types of police brutality going on and that the Police Commission in hearing all of these complaints somehow can't seem to change things. So I believe that the Police Commission should have authority to discipline the Chief of Police so far as if there is anything that we need to change and I know that this would have come in real handy with our former Chief of Police that even when CALEA (Commission on Accreditation for Law Enforcement Agencies) had told our HPD (Hawai`i Police Department) that they must have a continuum, the Chief of Police back then, Kubojiri— he stated he didn't like a continuum so I asked well what does the no continuum policy mean and I was told by Officer Makua back then that that basically meant that the Officers could go into use of force at their own discretion. Page 12 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MS. MURAMOTO: You have thirty seconds. MS. MAHI-HANAI: Okay, so basically that is just what I wanted to say and also that the Fire Commission authority to discipline the Fire Chief, I believe his job would also be easier with the elimination of the Puna Geothermal Venture because they, PGV has not provided the chemicals that they are putting down into the wells which they are supposed to provide to the Fire Chief. So I believe that they would have less call to have to discipline the Fire Chief but they should be able to if they need to. And then I wanted to go ahead and speak about PONC. And I have several items about PONC, lets see, basically about four of them, but if I could sort of lump them all together, maybe about nine minutes perhaps? CHR. ADAMS: Ma'am, okay we have tried to be very careful with all of the other testifiers, so if you could please identify the agenda item you are speaking to, that gives respect to the others that have done the same thing. Alright, so we are not pushing anything together. We are identifying the agenda item and we are speaking to that agenda item please. MS. MAHI-HANAI: Yes, okay. That's fine. Alright, lets see, I will start off with Communication No. 7-6. And that I also wanted to support what the Sierra Club and others were saying that basically, what is the two percent fund if you are going to allow the covenant to be broken with the people and the intent of saving the land from development and that I believe that the two percent fund—I worked under County Councilman Bob Jacobsen and there are some serious issues there. Excuse me, so, one of the things so far as looking at 7-6, there is no policy here for giving a key to the land lock?? Kuleana's or Royal Plat and Parcels or a key for the native tenants to the lock gate and I needed to also state that there is significant problems with people with disabilities or kupunas and whatnot. When there is no key or pretty much no announcement on the gate of how to get the key or how to arrange for the key, and so, along with the list of the properties that could be purchased by the Department of Finance, one of the things I have felt is that there is always a lack of money, is to look at memorandum of agreement or a memorandum of understanding for a non -purchase agreement. And so, these types of things that I am speaking to would have to take a change with the Charter. So that's why I am here today. And that also one of the reasons, let's look at our worst case scenario, Kawa`a, is that it was a beautiful place, it had beautiful native tenant gardens, gourds hanging from the tree, I was under Dr. Peter Mills at the time when I was first introduced to Kawa`a, around that the people there were doing a really good job but that I needed to look more according to what Bob Jacobsen wanted, okay, so what are the native rights there? Are these people actually heirs and... Page 13 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MS. MURAMOTO: You have thirty seconds. MS. MAHI-HANAI: Okay. Under (inaudible) 993 and 1530, and so, I feel that the PONC needs to have an ad hoc committee on issues like the key and native tenant issues and especially because native tenant rights are ordered, ah, court ordered and okay so, I will go on to the next one. Alright so this is Exhibit B, Communication No. 3.1.1, one of the most outstanding things that I am seeing here is that with respect to parcels, you are looking at around 4,450 some odd acres and there is a problem here because according to Kingdom law, which I am sure our friend Dwight here knows about, is that the native tenants actually have a third percent in these properties and there is nothing in our PONC Charter that actually recognizes that fact and so far it has cost upward of $30,000 and a police brutality case at Kawa`a removing Hawaiians and native tenants. Unfortunately for the County, someone had a camera around their neck when they were being abused. So, I have paper work here from when I was going to give a (inaudible) talk to the PONC Commission about native tenants and native tenant rights. The problem was when I went into the room, only one person even knew what a native tenant was. Then I also have this note here from the Department of Finance: Shelly, attached is the last meeting agenda for PONC with the information for our next meeting. We don't have a policy on native tenants in Open Spaces. Please call me etc. for any questions. So my big question is, inside of all of these acreages, you have a third percent owned in interest by native tenants and we still have no policy on native tenants and that it actually amounts to constitutional rights violations, cultural issues, Act No. 50, should go on. I don't have them all in front of me. And I do know for a fact so far as the issue of our purchasing property that is technically not for sale because that is where the memorandum of agreement or understanding could help a lot in that... MS. MURAMOTO: You have thirty seconds. MS. MAHI-HANAI: Okay. So, inside a conversation with the Coiporation Counsel they had told me no we have title free and clear and that basically that the reason the houses were torn down was because it is against agricultural laws. Well actually none of that is true in that there was coercion in the courts, collusion, etc. which was one of the reasons why the United Nations Human Rights Department did have to address this issue through the judicial system of the State of Hawaii. I am sorry. I have to look at the other sheet that I was looking at. Oh, here it is. Okay, and under New Business, I did want to go ahead and put this in there under C., Department of Parks and Recreation, and along with the PONC, that I would be more than happy to see that places like Kawa`a Page 14 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 and other open spaces are under the management hopefully Department of Finance would not allow herbicides or spraying and that I do know just for the record that Maui and I have heard rumors that Maui is now using some kind of alternative and that is what we should be looking at. It may cost a little more, I haven't really gotten the specs on that, but my final thing to say about the Charter that is going from 2018-2020, that there is in process an international protocol that allows the Hawaiian Kingdom we are looking at starting November 28th, 2018, which is Hawaiian Independence Day to allow for two years under international protocol for the Hawaiian Kingdom vacancies to be filled which are out of Kamehameha the 3rd statute books and the constitution but I wanted to say hats off to len Ruggles and all of the other honest Americans because what is going to happen here is that it is international protocol that the Hawaiian Kingdom will be having consultation with the County, the State, the United States of America, Feds, even Department of Defense in this process. So we are looking at the Hawaiian Kingdom coining online November 28, 2020 and we need everybody's help on this because we want as far as we can, a seamless transition keeping all of the services of the people and that in that way we can also reach our agendas so far as a healthy environment and the things we need to do. So we do need to look at important issues that are going to be happening during these two years up until 2020 and then I am with the understanding that there is five years transition after that. Now so far as lands or lands to be sold etc. there is what is called the Domiciled Alien Act that if you are not a Hawaiian National .. . MS. MURAMOTO: You have thirty seconds. CHR. ADAMS: Ma'am, I am not sure that this is pertinent to anything that is on the agenda at the moment. We did hear what you had to say. Do you have an agenda item that this relates to? MS. MAHI-HANAI: Yes sir, I do. It's called the Hawaii County Charter Commission and basically statements from the public on agenda items and it is under New Business, but I will end there. I think we all look forward to working together in consultation and that I did speak even with Governor, former Governor Waihee and he has admitted there is very good consultation going on right now. Mahalo. CHR. ADAMS: Great. Thank you. And then we have a final testifier from Hilo? Dwight Vicente: Communication No. 1.9, 7.7, 20, 3.1.1, commenting. Page 15 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 DWIGHT VICENTE: MR. VICENTE: Good Afternoon. My name is Dwight Vicente, I represent the Hawaiian Kingdom. For the record, I want the record to reflect the jurisdiction here is Hawaiian Kingdom. I am speaking on Item two, the requirement of the Judges and the lawyers under Rule 1.5 of the State Supreme Court which I would refer to as the Kangaroo Court, is to take an oath to the U.S. Constitution. The U.S. Constitution is limited to Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution. It does not extend to this Kingdom by way of the Reciprocity Treaty of 1875, done by King Kaldkaua's American cabinet done in Washington D.C. I see no evidence of King Kaldkaua signing the Reciprocity Treaty at `Iolani Palace. Now moving on to Item four, the Leeward Planning Commission, like the Windward Planning Commission are based on the HUD (Housing and Urban Development) to develop lands, Indian lands that were in the Ohio River Valley, under the Northwest Ordinance of 1787. The Northwest Ordinance does not apply to this Kingdom through the Reciprocity Treaty of 1875. Its amendment and the continuation of the treaty through the Republic of Hawaii Article 5 and the United States using the joint resolution to continue the Reciprocity Treaty in 1898 and I believe that treaty is still in existence today. It is unconstitutional because it is neither based on the U.S. Constitution or the Kingdom. It is based on the Northwest Ordinance of 1787. Moving on to Item five, since the Commission, the Police Chief and pretty much everybody takes an oath to the U.S. Constitution, to create a military force is called the Hawai`i County Police through the 52D of HRS (Hawaii Revised Statutes) is unconstitutional because it is considered a military force. Under the U.S. Constitution that's Article 1, Section 8, it applies to Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution only. That's 13 states. So the Police Department is arming themselves under Title 10, Chapter 134, that's illegal too. So this is all unconstitutional because this is Hawaiian Kingdom. The U.S. Constitution doesn't apply here, so taking an oath to the U.S. Constitution nullifies everything. Now moving on to Item one, under Reports, the Open Space, one needs to remember the land laws here in the Kingdom is under the 1848 Mahele. The lands here are either designated crown lands or government lands. All crown and government lands are subject to native tenant rights from the mountains to the ocean and under King Kaldkaua the leases were moved up to 25 years because he had an American cabinet which is illegal because by them claiming Dennison's status under the Northwest Ordinance, it is illegal. The lands here are not 2.4 million we're crown Page 16 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 RECESS: RECONVENE: and government lands under lease in 1898. The 1.8 million were not under lease. The phony government that calls themselves the Republic of Hawaii ceded it over to the United States without authority either under the Republic or the U.S. Constitution. When it came back in 1959, well 1920, it was called Hawaiian Homes. In 1959 these lands were called Hawaiian Homelands, 1.8 million by compact which is illegal because compacts are under U.S. Constitution and individual States signing, but the United States government has no authority to do compacts. And they did it with the territory of Hawaii so the territory of Hawaii could be admitted to the Union as a State, meaning they are not a State, they are a phony colony under the 1900 Organic Act and they are asking Congress to admit them to the Union as a State which is illegal so that the Act in itself, the Admission Act is an illegal act. It is based on the Northwest Ordinance having a compact. The whole act in itself is based on the Northwest Ordinance. It is illegal. So one thing I noticed that a lot of the land issue, they don't include native tenant rights and the only thing is to purchase lands that are crown and government lands and you have got people claiming they own those lands. That's illegal, that. As the old saying goes, buyer beware. With that I will end with the reservation of the rights of this Kingdom under the Queen's protest of January 17, 1893 against U.S. Minister Stevens, It is yet to make it's way to the U.S. Supreme Court. MS. MURAMOTO: You have thirty seconds. MR. VICENTE: Article 3, Section 2, Clause 2 original but limited jurisdiction. U.S. courts have no jurisdiction over the Hawaiian Kingdom, only over its ministers and counsels and the other one is the constitutionality of the Reciprocity Treaty of 1875, it is based on the Northwest Ordinance of 1787. It applies to the Ohio River Valley only through Article 5 of the ordinance. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. Do we have any other testifiers in Kona? Hilo? Okay. MS. MURAMOTO: There are none in Hilo. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much Hilo. At this time I would like to, I understand that there is a question from one of the Commissioners? A recess? Alright, that's fair. Let's take a five minute recess. At 2:31 p.m., the Chair called for a recess. The meeting reconvened at 2:38 p.m. Page 17 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 APPROVAL OF The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of MINUTES: business, Approval of Minutes. CHR. ADAMS: Before I take discussion or ask for discussion, I would note that this covers two separate days, October 12 and October 26 were the meetings. Is there any discussion? Additions, corrections, deletions? I would also make one comment, you will note that on the, I think just on the first page, we note that we had some technical difficulties in the transcription of the minutes. Those were for the purposes of the record technical difficulties and they did yeoman's work to actually grab as much of the information as they could in collecting it. Seeing no other discussion, all in favor of the motion, please signify by saying "aye". Vote on Minutes: The motion to approve the minutes of October 12 and October 26, (Approved) 2018, was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Galimba, Hamano, Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter, Todd, and Chair Adams —8 Noes: None. Absent: None Excused: Commissioners Bergin, Hopkins, and Saquing- 3 COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. CHR. ADAMS: We have received for the purpose of the agenda, Communications No. 1.7.1 and Communication No. 1.9 from the Corporation Counsel. Any discussion? Do you have your mic on Commissioner Rice? MS. RICE: Yes. I am in favor of these. So, do we make a motion at this point or how do we... CHR. ADAMS: These are just communications, so we have the ability to discuss what is in the communications. Is there something specific in the communications that you would like to discuss? MS. RICE: Well I think based on previous conversations during our meetings, that this is a legitimate and good change to the Charter. Page 18 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Suggested change. MS. RICE: Suggested change. CHR. ADAMS: Right because the Commissioners are the ones that would make the proposals. MS. RICE: Correct. Oh, okay, got it. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Is there anything other than that that you would like to speak to? MS. RICE: No. I think that it is a good change and a good suggested change. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Thank you. MS. TODD: Mr. Chair? CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: Just a procedural question. We have had a number of proposed amendments submitted to us by different departments and by members of the public. Is the protocol that one of us on the Commission has to, one of us has to fill out a form in order for this to actually be voted on? CHR. ADAMS: Yes. MS. TODD: So our last opportunity would be the December 14`''? CHR. ADAMS: No, the last opportunity would probably be May, but we would like to get it as soon as possible. Why do I say May? Because, well, it may be April. It has to do with the last meeting in June, our meeting in June is our cut off for second reading, yes, second reading so that it can then go forward to the Council. We are trying to push forward as many of these proposals through first reading meaning that we have had the initial vote on it and then a first reading vote on it. Essentially two separate votes on the proposals so that we can then present those in our public hearings. Page 19 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MS. TODD: I was under the impression that we had to finalize stuff by December to send to the County Council. CHR. ADAMS: No. MS. TODD: For their review and then they bounce it back to us. There's a different timeline now? CHR. ADAMS: The timeline has never changed. The timeline has always been a year from our, when we started in the beginning of July, it is a year to when we have to do it. So it's the 26m I think of June or something like that. We will have our meeting prior to that, which would be the second Friday in June. We are pushing to have as many of our proposals as possible done by that December/January time period so that we can have them available for public hearings when we were talking about trying to have them. We then have the ability after those public hearings based on anything that we may hear from the public or anything else that the Commissioners may want to bring forward that will allow them to do so with probably an, yeah, I think May would be the last time we could actually see a new proposal, vote on it, and then June would be the first reading. Am I missing that? Okay, two readings, so it would be April would be the first one, May first reading, and June would be the second reading. Okay. So that would be in April that would be the last time that the Commissioners could propose that before it goes to the Council. Now, we have the ability to amend after that. We have a 30 day window after the Council has come back with their 30 days so... MS. RICE: Mr. Chair? CHR. ADAMS: One second. Does that... MS. TODD: I think I will follow up on the issue that I had on State law and the timetables under State law, so I will take that up at a later time with Corp. Counsel. CHR. ADAMS: Great. Thank you. Ms. Rice? MS. RICE: I am still a little bit confused. Based on our schedule we go until November of 2020, right? CHR. ADAMS: That's correct. You have... MS. RICE: And so what do we do between... Page 20 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: July or August of 2019 and November of 2020? MS. RICE: Yeah, exactly. CHR. ADAMS: That's a good question and to be honest with you, frankly we haven't figured that out yet. Perhaps our Analyst is going to tell me something different. We know that there is, so this is Adams' view of the world for that period of time and that is all it is. Alright, we have, we know that by June of 2019 we have to provide a packet that looks like a packet to the County Council. The County Council has 30 days to look at it, like it, not like it, send it back. We have 30 days to see what they have said, accept what they have said, not accept what they have said, and then provide that forward. There then is a period, I am not sure what the exact date is, maybe our Analyst knows, where we actually have to have the ballot measures to the election officials, the County election officials and that is sometime in September. September of 2020. So, we have the opportunity between August of 2019 and September of 2020 to talk about these, I mean by that point the Commission has voted on it, we have this period of time where it will be an opportunity to explain what the ballot measures are about, all that kind of stuff is available for us to do, but the process of doing any additional work is not considered in either the HRS or our current Charter as I understand it. Our work is done within that period of time through August of 2019 and then we are a Commission until the day after elections in November of 2020. MS. RICE: Okay. So after we have pretty much done everything we can do by law, then do we continue to meet or do we... CHR. ADAMS: That will be up to the Commission. MS. RICE: Okay. But basically we are done. Is that correct? Our work is done. I mean August of 2019. CHR. ADAMS: August of 2019 is when we have to have what we are going to do for the election in 2020 done. MS. RICE: Yeah. Okay. MS. TODD: Mr. Chair. Page 21 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: I found the timetable that had been given to us and under that timetable it basically said that the Commission shall complete the process of proposing amendments to the Charter by December 31' of 2018. CHR. ADAMS: That was the—right, that was the initial stuff that we were provided when we were joining. I believe right? MS. TODD: Yeah and because we have to take it out to public hearing... CHR. ADAMS: Because the public hearing we figured would probably be a January public hearing. MS. TODD: Then after the public hearings then we can decide whether we want to amend our proposals and consider input, so in that sense, I am correct that if we want to propose amendments in order to have them for the public hearings, we need to get them in for the December meeting otherwise we don't have a set of proposals under our timelines to take out to public hearing. CHR. ADAMS: So given that we haven't yet decided when our public hearings are going to be, we did, I don't remember if you had departed yet at the last meeting, to be honest, when we were having this conversation, so we talked about having public hearings in the late March/early April period of time. That means that we would be able to accept amendments through first reading by the February meeting. The February meeting would be the first meeting, the first reading in March with a March/April public hearing time period. MS. TODD: Okay. Because I was... CHR. ADAMS: You're right in terms of the amount of time that we need prior to it. So for example if there is a decision that no that is too late, we need to do it in January, then you are absolutely right. December, first reading in January, but as we have talked about we were looking at a late March/early April time period that everybody else was available for. MS. TODD: Okay. CHR. ADAMS: Any other questions? Page 22 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MS. TODD: No, but it kind of reaffirms my feeling that whatever any of us is going to propose, that we need to get it in a written form and submit it, so in other words, if you like the proposal for the Fire Commission, you have to take one of the forms that was provided to us and actually write it out so that it is a submission by one of the Commission members and you should do it soon. CHR. ADAMS: Right. From your lips to everybody's ears. MS. TODD: Thank you very much. MS. RICE: Mr. Chairman. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: Given that. CHR. ADAMS: I would point that we are still discussing ... MS. RICE: Discussing 7-4.3 CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. MS. RICE: Do we, somebody volunteers to make that proposal so we don't have five people sending in the exact same proposal? CHR. ADAMS: Anyone can say at any time that they are going to do something. That is perfectly fine. Right and then if they do, they do, and if they don't, they don't, and if more than one does, that is great too and we will figure it out when we get them all. MS. RICE: Okay. CHR. ADAMS: We are not assigning Commissioners to make proposals. Commissioners are all equal, they can decide if they want to make one, and then go forward. MS. RICE: Okay. I will volunteer to make a proposal on Section 7-4.3 (a). CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Rice. Commissioner Galimba. Page 23 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MS. GALIMBA: Hasn't Commissioner Saquing already... CHR. ADAMS: Can't hear you. MS. GALIMBA: Sorry. Hasn't Commissioner Saquing already done something very similar? I mean we have a... CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Henricks. MR. HENRICKS: Yes, you are correct. I believe it is Proposal CA -6 which is on the agenda today that addresses the recommendations from the Corporation Counsel in 1.7.1. CA -6 also covers the Police Chief and Police Commission as that was asked of Corporation Counsel as well, if that should be included. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Thank you. So we just talked about under Communications Items one and two, Communications No. 1.7.1 and 1.9, alright, moving on to Item No. three, Communication No. 7.6. Communication No. 7.7, Communication No. 15, let me just make a comment here. We will have Communication No. 15 throughout the remainder of our agendas. This is the opportunity for the public and frankly for the Commissioners if there is something specific that you want to discuss that is within the Charter then this is the opportunity to do that. Do you have something specific that you would like to speak about Commissioner Rice? Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: The Fire Chief in his testimony in front of us was asked specifically on Section, no, Article VII, Chapter 4, 7-4.3 concerning the qualifications of the Fire Chief which now are five years as a fire fighter and three years in a supervisory capacity and his reply was that he did not think that that was sufficient. So I would like to request from someone knowledgeable, either the Fire Commission or the Fire Chief, what they would consider to be qualifications that are optimum for that position. CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Henricks can we prepare a letter to that effect? MR. HENRICKS: I will do so, but, okay, I will do so, that's fine. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Mr. Henricks. Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: Well, that's the only way I know to get quality information on that subject in as much as he said those qualifications were not sufficient. Page 24 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 And certainly I am not qualified to make that proposal for an amendment to the Charter. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Anything else in Communications Item No. five, Communication No. 15? Alright, then we also have Item No. six, Communication No. 16. I would point out at this particular point that this is probably as good a time, actually five or six is as good of a time as any to let you all know that in our Hilo Chambers we have Director Sako from the Finance Department if there are any questions. We have Deputy Director Whitmore from R &D (Research and Development), or at least he was when I received this note. We also have Deputy Director for Parks and Rec. (Parks and Recreation), Maurice Messina, and Corporation Counsel Kamelamela was also there. So if there are any questions specifically that you have related to these Communications, they are available answer those questions at this time. And we also have according to, whether she is still there or not we also have Council Chair, Poindexter. Anybody else I missed? Okay. MS. TODD: Mr. Chair. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Todd. It's really hard. There's no red thing to see. MS. TODD: I have a couple of questions of Finance Chair Sako. CHR. ADAMS: And this is related to which item in Communications? MS. TODD: It's related to some of the testimony and submittals from the public on PONC and transferring responsibilities to the Department of Finance. CHR. ADAMS: So this would be perhaps under Item No. 5, Article X. MS. TODD: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. MS. SAKO: Good Afternoon. Deanna Sako, Director of Finance. And, just to let you know, Parks and Recreation is also here, both the Director and the Deputy. Page 25 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MS. TODD: Ms. Sako, we have had some comments from the members of the public and they have submitted some written proposals to transfer some responsibilities from the Department of Parks and Recreation to the Department of Finance and I just either now or perhaps by our next meeting, I would like to have some response from you as to what you think of moving those responsibilities to the Finance Department. MS. SAKO: We are aware that that came up and we did have time to discuss it and we are actually okay with it. The PONC Commission discussed it as well as our property management team and they think we have the adequate resources to take that piece over. MS. TODD: Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Director Sako, this is Commissioner Adams. When you say that we discussed it, that mean we, did the "we" include... MS. SAKO: We, our department. We have yes, we also had discussed it and they are also fine. Cause this is just the piece covering the stewardship grants and so our staff are out on the properties I think a lot more than their staff are able to be and our Commissioners are already looking over the grant applications to assist so it seems kind of like a natural transition at this point. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. MS. RICE: Mr. Chairman. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: On that subject, you said just the maintenance fund? Is that correct, that you would be willing to take that? MS. SAKO: No. I think that's the piece that is currently assigned to Parks and Recreation, so right now the way the maintenance fund is worded a lot of the duties fall under Parks and Recreation. The biggest piece being the maintenance grants I think, we call them the stewardship grants, and so, that was the piece that was talked about. Transitioning that to the Finance Department. MS. RICE: And you would handle the financial aspects? Cause PONC, the Commission actually recommended that they be in charge of the stewardship grant itself in their submittals, so... Page 26 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MS. SAKO: They have been reviewing the, yes, they have been reviewing the grant applications now but someone still has to manage those and review those, and make sure they are being complied with. MS. RICE: I see. Okay. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Hi Director Sako. There's also been some discussion of using funds from the PONC, the two percent, to hire a staff person, I believe it would be perhaps within your department or within, or the PONC Commission is part of your department? Do you see any problem with that as far as procedurally? MS. SAKO: Hiring a staff person to... MS. GALIMBA: Administer the PONC program using PONC funds, the two percent fund. MS. SAKO: Currently we do have a staff person assigned to the PONC Commission and also looking over the PONC purchases and currently our internal staff are doing that, so, but yes, if there was you know to be a staff person or something we wouldn't be opposed to that. I am not sure, I would have to go back and read the way the Charter is currently written, but are you talking about an additional amendment or just the use of those funds? MS. GALIMBA: Yes, it would be another amendment that hasn't come forth yet. MS. SAKO: Okay. Yeah, I think we wouldn't be opposed to that. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Alright. Thank you Director Sako. Any other comments? Okay. So that's the Communications. Any comments on Communication No. 16, which is Item No. Six? Okay, I would just make the point that that's excellent work. Right. Let's move into Unfinished Business. UNFINISHED The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of Page 27 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 BUSINESS: business, Unfinished Business. CHR. ADAMS: Item No. one, is Communication No. 3, Formation of ad hoc committees. Any desires or comments? Seeing none. Move on to Item No. two, Communication No. 14, we have if I recall, and please correct me parliamentarian, the CA -2 that was considered as new business, last meeting was postponed to this meeting. Is there some action that needs to take place for us to take this up? MR. HENRICKS: No. There's a motion on the floor currently to approve this on initial approval. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. The motion is on the floor and it has a good second as well. MR. HENRICKS: Yes. Correct. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. So just a reminder, this particular motion is for the Proposal to amend 3-7 to provide that the County Council hold an equal number of its regular meetings in East and West Hawai`i within each calendar year. This replaces the language where currently it is a quarterly requirement to have it in West Hawai`i, I believe. We are open for discussion. I know that we had a robust discussion last meeting and I think part of the reason if I can say so that we postponed it is because there was the potential for some amendments but we needed potentially some detail to that, so do we have any..., yes, Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: I prefer the amendment proposal as it is written. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Zelko. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: I agree with Commissioner Rice. I also prefer the way it is currently being proposed. MS. TODD: Chair. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: I concur with the proposed language because I believe that it provides flexibility by stating East Hawai`i and West Hawai`i rather than specifying North Kona or South Kona, it allows the Council to move meetings to Waimea or North Kohala or Ka`U if needed if there are items that are of significant interest to people in that area and also gives Page 28 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 flexibility on the East side if they want to move it around so long as there is an even distribution between the two sides of the island. Thank you. Commissioner Roehrig. MR. ROEHRIG: Thank you. If that is written in to this proposal, that's okay but just saying East and West you know Waimea where is that, I don't know. But it doesn't say North Kohala, Ka'u, and I think it would be, I think the intent is that it moves around the island right? I did get a communication from a Council person and they think that having meetings in Waimea, Hawl, and Ka`a is a good idea and it would be in the evening where people can attend them, so I don't know if the language here is going to cover that because you are not going to see all of that but I would like to see the language where there is an effort made by the Council to go everywhere. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Hamano. MR. HAMANO: Chairman Adams, I have a question for the Corporation Counsel. You know if we put this requirement as a Charter provision, what is the consequence of violating this provision? Let's say they don't have an equal number of meetings in East Hawaii and West Hawaii. MR. YOSHIMOTO: My initial response would be that there is a penalty provision in the Charter for violating the Charter so that would be the first place that we would look to so, maybe that is something that the Commission should discuss as well. Because you know that is a reasonable question to ask right. MR. HAMANO: Okay. Yeah. MS. RICE: That's something I hadn't thought of. I mean there might be... CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: Hopefully not, but there could be a natural disaster which would preclude having an equal number of meetings in a year through nobody's fault. So that could be an issue. I wonder if we could have some kind of an amendment to this which would cover circumstances beyond the control of the Council. MR. YOSHIMOTO: So I think that's a good idea because as I recall the Council rules provides for circumstances in which if you cannot, I think there is some language in there, I think Mr. Henricks can recall that Page 29 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 RECESS: RECONVENE: language too, but there's like what is it? Absent exigent circumstances or something to that effect that gives you some leeway, like you said Commissioner Rice, in case there is some kind of emergency or disaster that prohibits or prevents that from practically happening because my recollection was when we were on the Council and we had maybe didn't meet the equal number, we would make it up as soon as possible and that was something that was worked on internally in the Council. And so, we basically, our rules, the Council rules basically said equal number so we followed that but we were given some flexibility so that is a good idea too as well. CHR. ADAMS: So Commissioner Rice are you, is that just for discussion and just asking the legal or are you making a motion? MS. RICE: I would like to make the motion at the appropriate time. CHR. ADAMS: Now is an appropriate time. MS. RICE: Okay. I would like to make an amendment to the motion that, under circumstances beyond the control of the Council, that there be some leeway. I am not saying this very well. That there be leeway to exigent circumstances. I need some help on a good, on a proper legal. CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second for the motion? MS. GALIMBA: Second. CHR. ADAMS: At this time I would like to take a brief recess so that we can work out the exact wording. It should not be that difficult to do that. At 3:09 p.m., the Chair called for a recess. The meeting reconvened at 3:13 p.m. MS. RICE: I'd like to withdraw my motion, please. CHR. ADAMS: Your motion to amend? MS. RICE: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: Does the second concur with that, Commissioner Rice? Page 30 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MS. RICE: I'd like to make a new motion that will strike the words "within each calendar year" in the motion on the floor. CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second? It's been seconded by Commissioner Galimba. So just for the purposes... if I may? So for the purposes of the amendment, the motion would read that the County Council hold an equal number of its regular meetings in East or West Hawai`i. MS. RICE: Should say "provided that." CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Henricks, you have it directly in front of you. Can you read it with the amendment? MR. HENRICKS: I'll just read the full sentence just for the record. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. MR. HENRICKS: "The county council shall meet regularly at least twice in every month at such times and places as shall be established by rule of the council, provided that the council shall hold an equal number of its regularly scheduled meetings in East Hawai`i and West Hawai`i." Period. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. You have anything you'd like to add under discussion since you made the amendment? MS. RICE: That just simplifies it and it gives flexibility to the Council in case something comes up where they simply can't get across the mountain because the roads are closed or whatever might happen. CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Yoshimoto. MR. YOSHIMOTO: So I would add a little bit more rationale, so the record is clear as to why this amendment addresses the issue that we were just talking about, about emergencies, if we could just have that so that we would have some basis, additional basis, for what your amendment does. MS. RICE: Yeah. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, so for the purposes of establishing rationale, we recognize that there are times, particularly on this island, when we may not be able to have the transportation means or even the telecommunication means to hold a meeting within the rules that the Council sets up. And so the idea of not including the timeline helps with not incurring a penalty under the Page 31 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 Charter, but it does meet the intent, which is to have Council meetings on a fairly regular basis on both sides of the island, or as it's been stated, in different parts of the island. Any other discussion on this particular amendment? Again, the amendment is to strike the timeline that's part of the proposal. All in favor of the amendment please signify by saying "aye." Vote on Motion The motion to amend Proposal No. CA -2 (Comm. No. 14) to strike out To Amend CA -2 the words "within each calendar year" so the proposed amendment to (Approved): Charter Section 3-7 would now read "...provided that the council shall hold an equal number of its regularly scheduled meetings in East Hawai`i and West Hawaii" and was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Galimba, Hamano, Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams - 8 Noes: None Absent: Commissioners Bergin, Hopkins, and Saquing - 3 Excused: None CHR. ADAMS: Now we will return to our original motion, which has been amended. Is there any discussion on the original motion? Hearing none, I would... all in favor of the motion, as amended, please signify by saying "aye." Vote on Motion The motion to move Proposal No. CA -2 (Comm. No. 14), as amended, to To Move CA -2, first reading was carried by the following voice vote: As Amended, to First Reading Ayes: Commissioners Galimba, Hamano, Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Todd, (Approved): Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams - 8 Noes: None Absent: Commissioners Bergin, Hopkins, and Saquing - 3 Excused: None NEW BUSINESS: Comm. No. 13.1 (CA -1, Draft 2): CHR. ADAMS: This was our initial approval. We'll see this again next meeting for our first reading. Okay, thank you. The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business, New Business. CHR. ADAMS: Number 1 is Communication No. 13.1 transmitting CA -1, Draft 2, for first reading. This was the proposal to amend the various sections of the Charter to rephrase language related to district residency requirements. Just for the purposes of our memory, we actually...what we did just now for CA -2, we did for CA -1 last meeting. This will be the first time I actually do Page 32 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 this first reading business, so I would be very happy to get some assistance on how we are supposed to do this. Is there a motion? You know, I actually don't know. MR. HENRICKS: Yes, the motion would be to pass CA -1, Draft 2, on first reading. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, I would ask that the Vice Chair take over the meeting at this point, since I am the responsible party for CA -1. Relinquish Chair: At this time, Chair Adams relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Zelko- Schlueter. ACTING CHR. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thank you, Chair Adams. Should I, again, read what the amendment was what we had passed...? MR. HENRICKS: You can if you'd like. ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. MR. HENRICKS: I mean, otherwise I think there should be a general understanding of what the proposal is currently as it stands, as it is currently drafted. ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, I think it's okay. ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: That's fine. So is there any discussion? MR. HENRICKS: We would still need to have a motion and a second prior to entertaining discussion and a vote. ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay, could I get a motion? MR. ADAMS: You may. I would move that we approve CA -1, Draft 2, for first reading. MS. RICE: Second. Page 33 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay, thank you Chair Adams and Commissioner Rice. Is there any discussion on this particular amendment? CHR. ADAMS: I ask for everyone's support. ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay, seeing as there is no discussion. MR. HAMANO: Wait, hold on. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Go ahead, Commissioner Hamano. MR. HAMANO: This is in regard to Charter amendment number CA -1, Draft 2, is that correct? ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yes. MR. HAMANO: You know, I have just one concern, actually, on the very first sort of amendment, Section 3-2. You know, we're proposing to delete the section that says, "one member shall be elected from each of nine districts" to be replaced by "there shall be nine council districts, each of which shall be represented by a member." I'm a little bit concerned about that replacement, because it doesn't have anywhere in there the term "elected," and it seems to me that term should be in there. I may be wrong, but it just seems like that should be clear that it's an elected member. CHR. ADAMS: If I may. May I respond? MR. HAMANO: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: May I respond? ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Oh, yes, Commissioner Adams. CHR. ADAMS: This is Commissioner Adams. In Section 3-2...oh, I see what you are saying, because that's where the term for the election...yeah. MR. HENRICKS: Chair Adams, I'm sorry. Mr. Hamano brings up a good point. And I think where you were going is that there are other areas of the Charter that clearly describe that; however, I don't think there would be any harm in reiterating in that section that, you know, you're not appointed, you're Page 34 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 not selected, you are elected. So perhaps the Commission will entertain a motion to amend just that particular section of this proposal to read "there shall be nine council districts, each of which shall be represented by a member elected from that district." CHR. ADAMS: Usually, less is better, but in this case, we're trying to avoid one member from each, so... ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Hamano. MR. HAMANO: Yes. Maybe a suggestion would be "there shall be nine council districts, each of which shall be represented by an elected member." MS. TODD: Council Chair, if Mr. Hamano is done... CHR. ADAMS: It's actually...Vice Chair has the... ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: I think to avoid confusion, because I can... subsequent sections we talk about someone appointed from that district, so to me it should be "each of which shall be represented by a member elected from that district" to be clear, because, otherwise, there may be some confusion that you could represent Ka`u but be elected from Hilo. Kind of, you know...so I think for clarity purposes, there should be some language that says you have to be elected from that particular district. ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you, good catch, but I think I prefer the language of elected from that district. It is a little more clear. Thanks. ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Hamano. MR. HAMANO: Maybe if staff could tell us what the two alternatives could be, the ones suggested by Commissioner Leithead-Todd and yourself. MR. HENRICKS: Actually, I think what we said was word for word the same. MR. HAMANO: Oh. Page 35 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MR. HENRICKS: Right, so what I had suggested was leaving everything the way it is, "there shall be nine council districts, each of which shall be represented by a member" and then adding "elected from that district," which I believe is what Commissioner Leithead-Todd had said as well. Apparently, I was wrong. MS. TODD: Actually, I have rethought this, and I noticed the language in the other sections talks about a resident appointed from that district, so I think we should follow that language and say, "a resident elected from that district." I just want to clarify that you gotta live in the district that you are running from, that's all, and that you're elected. CHR. ADAMS: Vice Chair Zelko may I... ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yes, Chair Adams. CHR. ADAMS: In Section 3-3, it specifically notes that "a person must also have been a resident and registered voter of the district from which the person is to be elected" so that's covered in that portion. ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: I think that it never hurts to reiterate, and so I think that... and it keeps it in line with the others as well, so I would be in favor of the revision that Commissioner Leithead-Todd expressed. ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Todd, can you repeat it the way that you are wanting it to be amended? MS. TODD: I was just following the language that is proposed in the other sections, which talks about they "shall be represented by a resident appointed from the district," so I was thinking it should be "represented by a resident elected from that district." I know it's in Section 3-3, which to some extent may make this superfluous, but I was just trying to see that the language was similar or followed the same type of format, that's all. ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: So is that a motion then to amend what we have before us? MS. TODD: It is not, that was just my discussion, and if, you know, somebody wants to amend to that language, they may do so. ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Commissioner Rice. Page 36 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 Vote on Motion to Amend CA -1, Draft 2 MS. RICE: I'll make that a motion. ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Do we have a second? Oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: Oh, you want me to read it? ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: We needed a second. I'm sorry. Do we have a second? (Inaudible) ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay, thank you. Go ahead, Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: So you want me to read the motion, the revision? ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: No, that's okay. Do we have discussion? CHR. ADAMS: So for the purposes of ...I understand what we're talking about, if I may. In Section 1 of CA -1, Draft 2, where we've been talking about "there shall be nine council districts, each of which shall be represented by a member." This particular amendment would say that "there shall be nine council districts, each of which shall be represented by a resident of that district"? CHR. ADAMS: By a resident elected from that district? MS.RICE: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: I can live with that. ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Any other discussion? Okay, so we will go ahead and call for the vote on the amendment. All in favor of the amendment which would...I'm gonna state it again, "there shall be nine council districts, each of which shall be represented by a resident elected from that district." All in favor of that, please say "aye." Anyone opposed? The motion to amend Proposal No. CA -1, Draft 2, (Comm. No. 13.1) to strike out "member" from the proposed amendment and replace with "resident elected from that district" was carried by the following voice Page 37 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 (Approved): vote: Ayes: Commissioners Galimba, Hamann, Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams - 8 Noes: None Absent: Commissioners Bergin, Hopkins, and Saquing - 3 Excused: None ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay, so motion carries with Commissioners... CHR. ADAMS: If I may I reclaim my time? ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Oh, yes. Go ahead. CHR. ADAMS: So we now have...we still have CA -1, Draft...I don't know if that changes the draft number or not. MR. HENRICKS: Draft 2 as amended. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, Draft 2 as amended. And my motion as amended still is on the table. I believe we had a second for that as well. Again, I would encourage us to support this particular amendment. I think it clears up the potential. I understand that this may seem...It just strikes me, and apparently most of the folks, most of the other Commissioners who voted on it, as nonsensical the way it's currently written. And this is intended, even though it's no longer to try and take away the nonsense, and make it clear. MS. RICE: I agree. ACTING CHR. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: I support it as well. Okay, seeing that there is no further discussion, all those in favor of this amendment, please signify by saying "aye." Anyone opposed? Okay, so the amendment carries. Vote on Motion The motion to move Proposal No. CA -1, Draft 2, (Comm. No. 13.1) as To Move CA -1, amended, to second reading was carried by the following voice vote: Draft 2, As Amended, to Ayes: Commissioners Galimba, Hamann, Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Todd, Second Reading Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams - 8 (Approved): Noes: None Absent: Commissioners Bergin, Hopkins, and Saquing - 3 Excused: None Page 38 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Thank you, Vice Chair Zelko. Reclaiming the chair position. Relinquish Chair: At this time, Acting Chair Zelko-Schlueter relinquished the chair back to Chair Adams. Comm. No. 17 CHR. ADAMS: Let's move into New Business, Number 2, Communication Transmitting No. 17, transmitting Proposal 3 for initial approval. Proposal to add a new Proposal section to the County Charter to establish a Climate Change and Resiliency (CA -31: Commission and a new section relating to Greenhouse Gas Emissions Reporting and Reduction, as submitted by Commissioner Galimba. Is there a motion related to this particular proposal? Commissioner Galimba? MS. GALIMBA: Yes, I move to approve CA -3 for initial approval. I believe it is the thing to do at this point. CHR. ADAMS: Alright, it's been moved, and it's been seconded by Commissioner Roehrig. Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. So... CHR. ADAMS: I'm sorry. I should just point out for the purposes of the record. Our rules identify five minutes when we are talking about these things. Alright. Okay, so that's what our rules that we voted on...agreed to. We did talk about this, so go for it. MS. GALIMBA: You never need to worry about me going over really long. But, you know, I'll be as eloquent as I possibly can be on this, because I feel very strongly about it. So, in the Kumulipo, which is the Native Hawaiian creation chant, the coral polyp is the first living creature that emerges from the darkness; it's the first thing. So when you look at the press release that the international panel...yeah, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change just released recently, talking about the need to keep global warming to under 1.5 degrees Celsius. They say this: "coral reefs would decline by 70 to 90 percent with global warming of 1.5 degrees Celsius. Whereas virtually all, greater than 99 percent, would be lost with 2 degrees Celsius." For me, that just kicks me right in the gut, because for us to lose coral...I mean, how can we pass that world on, you know. So, I'm not a climate change expert at all, but I'm a rancher, so I'm very sensitive to how the climate's changing, and it has been changing. So, this is really hard, because it's going to be a big change, but we have to try. We have to start somewhere, and this is just my way of saying...you know maybe we can start by doing this. We have to develop the tools, you know, because we have to do this together. We can't Page 39 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 just...this is something we have to do together. We can't just do it one by one. We have to figure out how to do it together. So, I'm proposing having a commission that will help to gather more information about this, because we're still learning about it as we go. We need everybody's perspective. So 1 tried to make this commission fairly broad, in the kind of people that will be on it, but also wanted to bring in expertise. The other thing is...you know, this is not just all doom and gloom. There's a lot of opportunity here, especially on our island, I think, because we are so agriculturally based. I think we can help agriculture. Agriculture can help with this if it's climate -smart agriculture; and we have a lot of conservation initiatives that can help with this. So, there's actually, you know, economic opportunities within this. And sort of to underline it, just earlier this week, the City and County of Honolulu was chosen one of 20 cities in the U.S. to win the Bloomberg American Cities Climate Challenge. So they're gonna get significant help with reaching their climate change goals. And I did use some of their language, because they do have an office and a commission on climate change. Climate Change, Sustainability, and Resiliency is the name of their commission. So we have a commission, and we also... also there is in business...you know, I'm a rancher; they say you can't manage what you don't measure. So it's really important that we figure out what we're doing. We need to measure our emissions and then we need to figure out a plan to reduce or offset those emissions. So that's the two parts of this proposal. Like I said, I'm not an expert, so I'm really open to anything. if anybody has better ideas, how to do it better, I'm really open to anyone making an amendment. In closing, I hope that you will support this charter amendment, and I'm also hoping that everyone will help, try to help to figure out the best ways for us all to address climate change for the sake of the coral and for our kids. Thanks. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you, Commissioner Galimba. Other discussions? Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: I am completely in favor of this. 1 think it's terrific that Commissioner Galimba has taken this on and initiated it. I am not sure when it is appropriate, but I did have some suggestions to add to it, and I don't know at what point we should discuss that. CHR. ADAMS: I believe that the time is now. Page 40 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MS. RICE: Okay. So if you don't mind, I will go through this. I think in the underlined material section climate change and resiliency commission, where it says the first, it would be the second sentence, "shall have expert...the prescribed in Section 134 shall have the expertise in climate change" and then there's a list there natural resource management, environmental... economic policy etc., and I am thinking that this might be stronger if it had less. Where it was climate change, delete "in natural resource management" and put "climate change, environmental policy, economic policy, and energy." The others kind of come along as part of it but I want my focus would be to make this as strong and clear as possible. And then the other thing that I thought of was that the Director of Planning and the Director of Research and Development or their designated representative shall serve as the remaining two members which is fine. They certainly should be on there, but I think we want to be sure that the Commission itself has expertise so that there are people on the Commission who are well versed in the actual climate problems that are going on, including the rise in the sea level, the Antarctic and Artie glacier melting so there is a little more scientific expertise I think is what I am looking for. And then under the second Section there, greenhouse gas emissions reporting and reduction, I thought perhaps we could add something and the wording could be changed but where you increase the County infrastructure resiliency so that because there are areas in the County obviously that are going to be impacted and there are some that are already being impacted. But, some of our economic areas like South Kohala along the shoreline and in Kailua-Kona where you have huge infrastructure and money that comes into the island are over time going to be affected here so I think we have both County infrastructure resilience that needs to be taken into account and community resilience and perhaps using permanent requirements, buffer requirements, education, and outreach and then we should be sure that we link with the State's efforts. So those are my two cents worth. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Rice. Anyone on this side? Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: Just some general thoughts. Having run the Planning Department and having had 13 different committees and commissions to take care of. I am very hesitant to support the creation of new commissions because of the need for staffing, a budget for them, and a lot of the work that is mentioned here is currently already being done in the departments. The Planning Department sits on a number of State-wide committees and commissions, they are responsible for coastal zone management, they implement a lot of this in their community development plans, and I have Page 41 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 some problems in that, unless you have the staff and the proposal does not say where this commission is assigned, to what department, you are going to... and it looks like it is creating a whole separate office. In order to do that you are also going to have to have staff. You are going to have to have office space. You are going to need a number of items and then because it is a commission created by the Charter, it also needs to advertise the meetings, keep minutes, that means you have to have the facilities and mechanisms to do that. So I am very concerned that at a time when we are being asked to look at how we save money and even reduce the PONC funds, we are looking at creating an additional commission and office which would then increase the budget. So those are just my thoughts. I have no opposition to the concept of the County having to look at these things but perhaps they should be included instead in the County's General Plan and just be duties involved in the County's management, coastal zone management, we already have an Ag Committee too, so I am just concerned that we have created so many committees and commissions over the last few go arounds of the Charter and even new departments, and each one of those amendments to the Charter has come with additional costs and I am very hesitant to do something without knowing what it is going to cost. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Zelko. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Well I also wanted to add that I think the County through Research and Development is already very involved for instance in the energy docket. I think they are always looking at ways to build the resiliency. Also through Mass Transit, I think they are looking at ways to electrify transportation or get on board with that. And so I do think that various departments are already looking at these issues and then 1 also wanted to add, I think this was to Commissioner Rice, you know she was, she had mentioned maybe taking away some of these... to make it stronger, but I disagree because somebody who has an expertise in transportation, I think that's going to be very important because I think a lot of the emissions comes from transportation and people are looking at that now and so I just wanted to add that. Thanks. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Right. So I think this might be a good time to call Deputy Director Ron Whitmore of R and D Department (Research and Development) up in Hilo since I think I see him sitting there. CHR. ADAMS: Deputy Director Whitmore, apparently Commissioner Galimba has some questions for you. Page 42 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MR. WHITMORE: Good Afternoon, Ron Whitmore, Deputy Director of the Department of Research and Development. MS. GALIMBA: Hi there Ron. So just to, could you tell us what you do in relation to greenhouse gas emissions and carbon for the County already and perhaps if you have any ideas that might make this amendment better in your point of view because I do consider you something of an expert in this field. I would also be interested in that. MR. WHITMORE: Yes. I would be happy to help. So, thank you Chair Adams and thank you to all of the Commissioners, Commissioner Galimba for introducing this proposed amendment to the Charter as well as the comments from the other Commissioners. Yes, very briefly to cut to the chase I guess that a little more work go into these proposed amendments but let me otherwise begin by discussing that many, many, people, myself included and the Mayor and the Department of Research and Development, and the County probably all agree that climate change is an absolutely critical issue for the County to address and we already are in many ways. I should quickly note that we have been interpreting the current Charter as written that this responsibility for complex issues like this fall under the role of the Department of Research and Development and the Mayor has asked us to coordinate related activities across the County. I should also note that Hawaii County Code Chapter 2, already establishes a Sustainability Action Committee and it's charge could be interpreted to include tackling tough issues like climate change. In response to your question Commissioner Galimba, just very briefly, in the Department of Research and Development in my role as Deputy, I more or less serve as de facto Sustainability Director for the County and in that role, we are very active in a number of both state-wide and national networks that focus on a whole range of sustainability issues. With climate change being front and center. We also have an energy specialist as well as an AmeriCorps VISTA (Volunteers in Service to America) volunteer, both of whom are focusing on energy and climate change, and greenhouse gas mitigation specifically. We also have two additional VISTA members coming on who are going to support both the energy and transportation dimension of things. So generally there is, when you talk about climate change, the activities fall in to two main buckets. The first is greenhouse gas mitigation which is what the second part of the proposed amendment addresses and the Page 43 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 other is climate change adaptation which is those measures that you need to take to adapt for the changes that you know are coming, and the biggest one for us, though not the only one certainly, is sea level rise. The Mayor as you may know has committed to implementing the Paris Accord as it relates to greenhouse gas mitigation. We have currently an inventory from 2007 and are in the process of completing an updated greenhouse gas emissions inventory for 2015 as is the State. And we are going to use that then as a means for establishing a baseline for what we should set specific goals for reducing greenhouse gas emissions per the Paris Accord over the coining years and decades. Two main avenues for doing that through the State's renewable portfolio standards for hundred percent renewable energy by 2045, the State and the County in particular have made tremendous strides on reducing greenhouse gas emissions for electricity generation. We also happen to have an agreement with Hawaii Energy which focuses on the efficiency side of that equation. And we also work closely with the Department of Public Works and Water Supply on reducing our energy use and maximizing conservation and efficiencies. We are beginning to mobilize on the transportation front as I believe Commissioner Zelko mentioned. We have commissioned a study to inform the wisest most cost-effective integration of lower emissions vehicles into the Mass Transit fleet and we are also collaborating with folks Statewide to leverage Volkswagen settlement dollars as well as the low note break that we recently received to pilot the integration of zero emission busses into the fleet. So that is the mitigation side. On the adaptation side, as Commissioner Todd pointed out, the Planning Department largely plays a lead role on that front. And the current strategy is starting with the General Plan comprehensive update, establish the appropriate policies at that level to drive adaptation planning, and then we are also working with the Civil Defense Agency, excuse me, to integrate climate change adaptation planning specifically into the 2020 update of the Multi Hazard Mitigation Plan. As I think it was also noted earlier, the County has a seat on the Statewide Climate Change Commission. R and D has a seat on the Statewide Greenhouse Gas Sequestration Taskforce, and again as I mentioned, we collaborate a number of related funds with folks in the other Counties as well as multiple State agencies, so I share that to reinforce what a couple of Commissioners have mentioned already, which is that there is already a tremendous amount of activity going on at the County level related to both reducing greenhouse gas emissions and preparing for the changes that we know are coming. I'll stop there. Page 44 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Did you have any other questions? MS. GALIMBA: Sure. Just one sort of clarifying question. So, is there, do you have clear goals and sort of mile posts for greenhouse gas emissions reductions or offsetting by department in the County at this point? MR. WHITMORE: Not yet, but it is forthcoming. The greenhouse gas inventory that we are in the process of completing and doing that in coordination with the other Counties and the State, we hope to use as our baseline, so we need to first be clear where our emissions stand so that we can then take that step of you know, with a specific goal in mind, identifying the milestones for reaching that goal, which in turn informs very specific planning related to reducing our net carbon emissions. So, that is the next step after we complete the greenhouse gas inventory underway which we should have finished before the end of this calendar year. MS. GALIMBA: And what would be the mechanism for tracking those goals and mile posts? So I am kind of looking at this, the second part because I mean I understand the concern about creating another commission, however there is a possibility of usefulness for gathering information, educating the public, and also having the capacity, an institutional capacity to track those goals and milestones, posts by department basically. So I am sort of looking at that second part. MR. WHITMORE: Yeah so, a couple of comments. One is we plan on, based on the inventory and the targets we would establish on the path towards presumably net zero carbon emissions, specific milestones and then we continue to track greenhouse gas emissions I assume on an annual basis, although that may depend on some of the data sources. But we are using it, with the technology now, there are a couple of very relatively straightforward easy to use mechanisms for tracking emissions on an ongoing basis, which we are employing and they are all driven by publically available data points so it is simply a matter of updating the data every time there is newly published data that drives some of the tracking of the greenhouse gas emissions, so we can do that in an ongoing way so it relates to the second portion of the recommendation here is—I think most departments would find that a very onerous responsibility and wouldn't really know where to start and so I think perhaps another way of tracking greenhouse gas emissions is to rely on a single department and R and D seems like the appropriate place to do that on an ongoing basis. Page 45 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 Well, my guess is most departments would turn to us and ask us to do it for them anyway, so I personally don't think it is necessary to add a Section like that to the Charter. I realize I may not have answered part of your question, so once you establish the targets and milestones, you then create what is typically called a Climate Action Plan which outlines the specific strategies for hitting those targets and as I have briefly mentioned, that includes a whole range of energy efficiency, conservation measures, as well as specific strategies to reduce the major sources of carbon and other greenhouse gas emissions and for us that is going to be largely electricity production, transportation, and most likely solid waste. MS. GALIMBA: And so does, and I don't want to be picking only on department heads of the County, so this is like I said, this is a larger effort, does R and D have any plans for education and outreach beyond the County at this time? MR. WHITMORE: Yeah so our VISTA volunteer who is focusing on this really has three main responsibilities, one is, and the highest priority was getting the greenhouse gas inventory completed. The second is to basically help establish and support a collaborative effort to tackle climate change and that would be collaboration not just among County agencies but also along with State and Federal agencies as well as community partners and so, our expectation has been that through that initiative... one element of that collaboration, would certainly be a community engagement and education component. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you Deputy Director Whitmore for being on the hot seat and I just wanted to clarify, so it is basically you and your VISTA volunteer that is working on this for the most part in the County. MR. WHITMORE: Well no, just on that greenhouse gas side and the other piece I would add to that would be our energy specialist as I think Commissioner Zelko pointed out. The vast majority of the work the energy specialist does contributes towards reducing greenhouse gas emissions, so the three of us currently work very closely together and then as I mentioned, there is two additional VISTA volunteers coming on who would focus also on energy and transportation and we are also trying to fill currently a position, one of our economic development specialists positions, who would focus specifically on sustainability issues as well. So we are really, we have been very deliberately trying to build a team of folks that focus on sustainability with a significant emphasis on climate change or greenhouse gas mitigation with change adaptation. Page 46 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MS. GALIMBA: Again thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Does anyone else have questions? Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: I am wondering if we didn't have a commission but in the Charter we had the R and D Department charged with climate change on a broader base rather than the piece meal that is being done now? I am quite impressed with all of the work that you have outlined that is going on. It really is wonderful but if your department was charged with being in charge of all of these and as the oversight department, what is your opinion on that? MR. WHITMORE: For me it just, it raises the issue, not to underemphasize the critical importance of climate change but for me, it raises the question of every time a significant challenge arises that the County has to face, does that mean we add that then to the Charter? Again, for me it kind of boils down to a theory of change question. We live, we currently operate under a strong Mayor model view and my understanding is the assumption is that that elected official then is responsible for keeping his or her eye very closely on those very high priority issues and providing direction and allocating resources appropriately. So it is just those sorts of questions that come up to mind for me, is I am not sure every single issue that we know to be a priority for the County needs to be enshrined in the Charter per say. If we were to consider a revision to R and D's section of the Charter, I think there are some improvements that can be made, I think you could make it more explicit than it already is about the need for R and D to focus on environmental, community, and economic sustainability, whether or not you would include climate change specifically in that, I think is a good consideration to have some more conversation and debate about. MS. RICE: Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Anyone on this side? Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: Ron, 1 am looking at some of the language that is in the City and County of Honolulu's Charter, specifically Section 6-107 which refers to an Office of Climate Change Sustainability and Resiliency and it sounds like a lot of what that office is tasked with doing, is already being done in Hawai`i County by R and D in that you are developing plans, you are working with other departments, I know that Public Works works on coastal zone hazard mitigation and makes recommendations on what they Page 47 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 are going to do with building codes and assesses those areas where improvements have to be made. The Planning Department does a lot of stuff and I know that you coordinate with them on that and you are familiar with some of those programs, having come from the Planning Department. I was thinking that perhaps what we ought to do is take some of that language from the City and County's Charter and add it as additional powers, duties, and functions of Research and Development since you are already doing a lot of that because you know, the Charter doesn't even mention the fact that you do a lot of work in agriculture, that you do a lot of work in energy, and you know we have done a lot of work in reducing our footprint, everything from changing the type of lighting that we have throughout the County facilities and you folks lead the charge on that to reduce the amount of electricity that we used. So, anyway, I am thinking that that might be a way to go and I guess I will just have to take a much longer look at that and then maybe check with Planning Department on what kinds of commissions and what kinds of things they are doing within the department because I note that our Charter has a provision towards the end that talks about natural resources conservation and puts a duty on the County to do natural resources and cultural preservation so I would be interested in hearing a little bit more from you in terms of what your department does possibly if you could send us some kind of communication on those activities that you are already, I mean this has been great that it is verbal, but I was thinking I tend to be kind of a black and white, like it in writing person, so if you could send us some information on what programs you are participating in and perhaps if you could also tell us what you are, in a written form, what you are coordinating with the other departments right now, because I know that there has been significant work that you have done in the past with the other departments in terms of reducing our footprint from simple things like converting to biodiesel, with some of our equipment in the County, so if you could give us some kind of summary of what you do and what the other departments that you are aware of are doing in a written form for our December meeting, that would be great. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: So, Director Whitmore, this is Chair Adams, we will be sending a note to you from the Commission that would ask you for those things okay, specifically so you know what you need to answer. Okay. Do we have any discussion among the members? Commissioner Zelko. MS. ZELKO: Well, I just wanted to add to what Commissioner Todd was saying. I would like to also take a closer look at what City and County of Honolulu has in their language but I did want to also say that our County Page 48 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 is probably the most active in energy dockets of any of the Counties in the islands, and so I think they do tremendous work. They also have consultants from Arizona State University Sustainability and I am forgetting the name of the center, but they do have experts that they have retained that are looking at all of this. Anyway, I just wanted to add that. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Any other discussions? Let me just make a comment if I may. I appreciate the comments from the Deputy Director regarding the Charter. I think that the idea that we would use the Charter for things that are flavor of the month kind of things would not be what we would be supportive of. However, I do think that the Charter does need to be there and be considered for what I call major muscle movements. So demographics are part of that, you know, where that fits I don't know, technology, things that are technology related, and I think climate change for me falls into that. Now, whether or not that is a commission, whether or not that is a department, whether or not that is a phrase that we have about conservation in the back of the Charter already, I am not sure, but I do think that this is an area, this is a field that is not going to disappear in our lifetime or our children's and potentially our grandchildren's lifetime and our Charter needs to be in my mind, supportive of whatever it needs to be supportive of to make sure that we as community, as an island community, are taking care of the things that we can take care of, would be my view. Now, we look at this in a, as we take a look at this particular proposal, there have been a number of questions that have come up. I think useful questions, and I would be inclined to postpone this particular proposal so that we can gather some additional information, receive the information that we are going to get from R and D and the other departments through R and D apparently, so that we can then bring this back and see if there isn't something else that we can do with this particular proposal. So having said that, I would like to move that, well, actually I would entertain a motion to do that, but before we do that, Commissioner Rice you had something that you would like to say? MS. RICE: Because this is such an important subject and has not been addressed specifically in the Charter before, I am just wondering if there shouldn't be an ad hoc committee with all the information that we got today, to go through this and come back to the Commission with a report. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. And of course the Commission can do that. I would make the following comments related to that. We would slow down the process and in fact if you wanted to make sure that we don't Page 49 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 Vote on Motion To Postpone Initial Approval of CA -3 To December 14, 2018 Meeting (Approved): have a proposal, I would identify an ad hoc committee to look at it. Part of the thing, we have an advocate here, frankly in one of our Commissioners. She is not going to let it die. So, I think that gathering the information, making sure that it is collected and that it is identified, we are going to see that for all of us. We will all be able to take a look at that would be my view. I would entertain a motion to postpone this particular Charter amendment to the next meeting. It has been moved by Commissioner Todd. Seconded by Commissioner Springer. Any discussion? Alright, all in favor of the motion to postpone this particular Charter Amendment (Charter Amendment 3), to our December meeting, signify by saying "aye". Any opposed? Thank you. The motion to postpone initial approval of CA -3, (Comm. No. 17) to the December 14, 2018 meeting was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Galimba, Hamann, Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams - 8 Noes: None Absent: Commissioners Bergin, Hopkins, and Saquing - 3 Excused: None CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Deputy Director Whitmore. We appreciate it. Moving on to, I would anticipate Director Whitmore, that you probably shouldn't leave. Moving on to Item No. three, Communication No. 18, I would like to be able to run through this if it is okay and then we will take a brief recess is the plan. So Communication No. 18, transmitting Charter Amendment 4 for initial approval, Proposal to Amend Section 6-8.3 Relating to Powers, Duties, and Functions of the Director of Research and Development, as submitted by Commissioner Galimba. Do I have a motion regarding this particular item? Great, was your mic on? MS. GALIMBA: So again, I move to approve CA -4 for initial approval. CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second? MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Second Page 50 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: It has been seconded by Commissioner Zelko. Commissioner Galimba? MS. GALIMBA: So this is sort of a, somewhat of a companion proposal and it takes up what was identified by our discussion with the Director and the Deputy Director of R and D. The third item in their Powers, Duties, and Functions, so that is Section 6.8.3 (c) as being perhaps dated and not relevant. So we are removing that and instead placing some language that addresses some of the things that we have been talking about just now as far as R and D being the natural home of efforts that are long term, complex, and require response from multiple County departments, so it reads "In conjunction with federal, state, and non-governmental agencies and entities, research and coordinate county policy and action in relation to long-term, complex problems that involve a coordinated response from multiple county departments." So this is sort of a broader way of asking them to work on climate change as well as other long term complex problems. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Are there any other items of discussion or comments? Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: I am just wondering since this is all part and parcel with the previous discussion, if we shouldn't also postpone this to go along with it? CHR. ADAMS: You can certainly make that motion if you think that's the case. MS. RICE: Well, I'll make that motion and then, so it can be discussed. I move that we postpone this proposal until the December meeting. CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second? Seconded by Commissioner Todd. Do you have any items of discussion on the motion? MS. RICE: Simply that it's tied in very closely to the previous discussion and I think that we would be better educated if we had a chance to discuss this along with the other items that we discussed previously. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Anyone else have... Commissioner Zelko? MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: I agree with Commissioner Rice. I think it will be helpful once we get the additional information from Research and Development, have a chance to review it, and then we can discuss. Page 51 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 Vote on Motion To Postpone Initial Approval of CA -4, To December 14, 2018 Meeting 0Approved): RECESS: RECONVENE: Vote on Motion To Postpone Initial Approval of CA -5 To December CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba. Could 1, I guess following on Commissioner Leithead-Todd's request, I would like to request the Department of R and D to submit in writing any comments they might have on this language so that we could have it for our next meeting. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, any other comments? Alright. Seeing none, all in favor of the motion to postpone CA -4 to our December meeting, please signify by saying "aye". Any opposed? "naye"? I believe that motion passes 7-1 with the one being Chair Adams, and the absentees being Commissioner Hopkins, Commissioner Saquing, Commissioner Bergin. Okay. The motion to postpone initial approval of CA -4, (Comm. No. 18) to the December 14, 2018 meeting was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Galimba, Hamann, Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Todd, and Zelko-Schlueter - 7 Noes: Chair Adams Absent: Commissioners Bergin, Hopkins, and Saquing - 3 Excused: None CHR. ADAMS: Let's move on then to recess for about ten minutes. At 4:14 p.m., the Chair called for a recess. The meeting reconvened at 4:25 p.m. CHR. ADAMS: Let's bring us back to order. At this point we are in Item four, Under New Business. I would entertain a motion given that Commissioner Saquing is not here, to postpone this Item, Charter Amendment 5 to the December meeting. It has been moved by Commissioner Todd, seconded by Commissioner Hamano. Any discussion? All in favor of the motion, please signify by saying "aye", any opposed? The motion passes 7-0 with Commissioners Hopkins, Saquing, Bergin, and Zelko absent. I would note for the record that Commissioner Zelko has departed the meeting. The motion to postpone initial approval of CA -5, (Comm. No. 19) to the December 14, 2018 meeting was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Galimba, Hamann, Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Todd, Page 52 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 14, 2018 Meeting (Approved): Vote on Motion To Postpone Initial Approval of CA -6 To December 14, 2018 Meeting (Approved): and Chair Adams - 7 Noes: None Absent: Commissioners Bergin, Hopkins, Saquing, and Zelko-Schlueter - 4 Excused: None CHR. ADAMS: Item five, Communication No. 20, transmitting Charter Amendment 6, I would note again that this has been submitted by Commissioner Saquing and I would entertain a motion to postpone this particular proposal to the December meeting. Is there such a motion? It has been moved by Commissioner Springer and seconded by Commissioner Todd. Any discussion? All in favor of the motion please signify by saying "aye". Any opposed? Motion passes 7-0, Commissioners Hopkins, Saquing, Bergin, and Zelko absent. The motion to postpone initial approval of CA -6, (Comm. No. 20) to the December 14, 2018 meeting was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Galimba, Hamano, Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Todd, and Chair Adams - 7 Noes: None Absent: Commissioners Bergin, Hopkins, Saquing, and Zelko-Schlueter - 4 Excused: None CHR. ADAMS: At this point without objection, I would like to move Report No. 1, Communication No. 3.1.1, the Ad Hoc Committee Report - Section 10-15 and Section 10-16 to this point in the agenda. We would then follow that with Communication No. 21, Charter Amendment No. 7. Any objections? Alright, at this point we will be in Report No. 1, I recognize, this, I would note for the record, that this report was received, was included in our agenda, received by the Commission at our last regular meeting, and at this point I would invite the Chair of the ad hoc committee to... MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Chair, prior to that, could we just get, so that we are able to essentially dispose of the report, a simple motion to close file on the report would be preferred. CHR. ADAMS: Oh, at this particular time? MR. HENRICKS: Yes, please. CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second? It has been moved by Commissioner Todd, seconded by Commissioner Galimba, to close and file the Ad Hoc Report. All in favor say "aye". Page 53 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MR. HENRICKS: Oh no, I am sorry, that was to allow for general discussion, and then when the discussion is complete... CHR. ADAMS: As soon as I started saying that I realized ... MR. HENRICKS: Okay, very good, thank you. CHR. ADAMS: My apologies for the minutes. At this point we will have discussion. Commissioner Roehrig. This is on 3.1.1. MR. ROEHRIG: So what are we doing? What's the motion? CHR. ADAMS: The motion was to close and file this report. We are in the discussion phase of that motion, which is where you get to talk about the report. MR. ROEHRIG: Everyone I think has read the report? Hopefully, so I had a few pages here, but I don't think all that's necessary. But what we did do is and you have seen it. We have, man, we went over everything in the world to get here and we went for a few weeks and there is a huge list of the people who attended it and some just one time, a lot of people every meeting, and reviewed all of the other County Charters in this regard and it started off from Deanna Sako where in our August 10`h meeting when she said she was happy with the Charter and all of the financial Articles except for, she said the one issue that caused her a little bit of grief, the PONC section. She was of the belief that all of the other Counties were at one percent. Honolulu and Kaua`i are point five percent and only Maui is one percent and if you add in the extra 25% for the maintenance, I think it comes to 4 and a half, four and a quarter times, four and a half times what Honolulu and Kaua`i does for their PONC, so she also commented that you couldn't use any of the PONC monies to even put in bathrooms or for access purposes, etc. and she suggested that be opened up and that there be some kind of cap or suspended in times of emergency or recession. Anyway, we went on and had an ad hoc committee. You have the results and we recommended, three of us to a half percent as far as the PONC fund. One person suggested and that is what is coming up next, one percent, but that one percent of the one percent, a quarter of it goes to the maintenance fund, so actually it is three quarters of a percent. But anyway, personally I, Paul Hamann has presented I think it gets the job done and what we wanted to do and I think the only disagreement maybe is the percentage down the road. That's about it. Page 54 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Any other comments? Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: So I had sort of two things I guess. I will start out with the procedural part. There has been much discussion about Charter, brought by people giving testimony, which some of them are I think really great ideas, so if I were to, well, let's say we voted on the Charter Amendment that's been derived from this Ad Hoc Committee Report, and then the next meeting I proposed something that was different, would that... CHR. ADAMS: So I think, correct... MS. GALIMBA: Would that, how would that work? CHR. ADAMS: I understand. So, I think I understand the cruxes of the question, so I am going to provide an answer and then I am going to turn to our Analyst and see if I am close to right. The, so let's say hypothetically that Charter amendment 7 passes initial approval, hypothetically, and then you come in in December with another Charter Amendment. That Charter amendment can then be used to amend in the discussion for first reading Charter amendment No. 7 potentially if it is on the same subject. If it is a different subject, a different area, then of course it would stand on its own. So did I get that right? Kind of? MR. HENRICKS: Yes. What I think Ms. Galimba is really getting to though is, if she wants to do something that is different from what Mr. Hamann is proposing in the sense that they overlap and they take different approaches to things, and the simple answer to that is you all need to pick one. You can't put two proposals on the ballot that provide different options for the same thing. Is that where you were coming from? MS. GALIMBA: More or less. MR. HENRICKS: More or less? More or more or less or less? MS. GALIMBA: I don't know what... CHR. ADAMS: That's okay. You don't actually have to answer that question. MR. HENRICKS: Right. Page 55 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MS. GALIMBA: 1 just want a general idea of how they are going to have to fight. CHR. ADAMS: In other words, say we have three bites at this apple. We have initial approval, we have first reading, and we have second reading. If in the process of those votes, you look at it and you say this just doesn't match what I want to do, then you would make those presentations during the discussion of you know, those proposals. And if you have different ideas about how it goes, and you present those and the rest of the Commission says you know actually that's a really good idea, and it replaces part of the initial proposal, I mean, that is done all of the time legislatively. So... MR. HENRICKS: May I? CHR. ADAMS: Please. MR. HENRICKS: So if it is something that could be added to any proposal irrespective of what may be put out or what is put out today, and works in concert with it, then that would be an amendment. If it is something that you don't want to add but it could work together, but you don't really want it to be one question for the voters, then you could do your own and they could both go forward. But the third thing is what we talked about earlier. If it is something that is different, that doesn't work with what is already out there, then you need to pick a way to go. Does that help at all? MS. GALIMBA: Yes. That does help. MR. HENR1CKS: Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: But again, that doesn't, we have three bites to do that. I mean as a Commission we vote on it three times. MR. HENRICKS: But if something doesn't get an approval, then it doesn't move forward. CHR. ADAMS: Yes, that's correct. MR. HENRICKS: Right. CHR. ADAMS: Right. Page 56 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MR. HENRICKS: So you could continue to move I suppose competing ideas forward, competing... CHR. ADAMS: I think the idea is that perhaps somebody has maybe something that is not as clear today and maybe it is clearer the next time. MR. HENRICKS: Right. Right. I think the only thing that would be perilous would be to pass on second and final reading two things that don't work in concert with each other but if your point is, could you move them forward and put them both for public hearing? Absolutely. It would just be at that final stage, when you need to make a decision on what you are putting on the ballot, that you wouldn't want, you really should not have two things on the ballot that would not work well together because then, what if they were both voted approved? Well then we got nowhere to go now at that point right? CHR. ADAMS: Right. Okay. Commissioner Roebrig. MR. ROEHRIG: Could we change the percentage next meeting from the proposed on his, that is coming up from one percent to something else? MR. HENRICKS: Any proposal is ripe for amendment. CHR. ADAMS: Any other comments? Go ahead Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Yes, I had a second part of my... CHR. ADAMS: Please. MS. GALIMBA: Basically that I am very supportive of PONC. Being a rancher I like open spaces so I love it that we have a very strong PONC fund. I think there are some things that we can do to strengthen it and make it work better, but personally I am very supportive of funding it as we do. I think it is something that—it's one of my favorite things about this County actually. CHR. ADAMS: Any other comments? Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: I am willing to vote to move this forward so we can have further discussions at the next meeting. I admit that I am... CHR. ADAMS: We are only on the report at the moment. Page 57 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MS. TODD: Okay, as for the report, let me just say that I am somewhat conflicted on it because on the one hand you know I support having additional funds in a higher amount because then the opportunity to acquire land in the front end is wonderful and great. On the other hand, we are on an island where there is over a million acres that is already in conservation and you can't do much with that. Some of the lands that we bought were already classified as conservation and the most that anybody could have done with that would have been build one house. So I have been somewhat conflicted in that some of the purchases have seemed to me, to have taken lands that weren't in any danger of development and just moved them from private to public. But the fund as I had envisioned it, which was to protect lands that were in danger of being developed and having access denied of changing landscape, that that has not been what has occurred. It instead has been mostly lands that are already in conservation and didn't pose much risk of being developed. So I have had some conflicts and so I want to move this along just so that we still have it, but at the next reading, may have some amendments or rather, since we are discussing the report, I think I would want to tighten up any provisions in terms of suspension of the fund to more than just reduction in level of public services. I would think that it has to be, to have a fund that is designated in the Charter, to me, it has to be extraordinary circumstances to suspend that fund. Not just the Finance Director making a determination. Oh, we are going to have to reduce services if I can't attach that money, that seems too open to interpretation. I would want something that says it is a natural disaster, it is an emergency, something like that. So I don't have a proposal in mind, of specific language, but certainly between now and our next meeting, I would want to think about that to tighten that up so that would protect the fund a little bit more than what the committee report was talking about. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Todd. Commissioner Rice did you have... MS. RICE: Yes. I have several things. Number one, I would like to keep the fund at two percent. I think that by hiring a full-time staff person paid for from the fund, would relieve some of the angst that the Mayor has because that person would take care of some of the chores that are now presently being handled by the Finance Department staff along with everything else that they have to do. That is one thing. And I have, in talking about suspension of the fund, I came up with sort of a name because there may be a time when heaven help us, Hilo gets hit full blast with a hurricane and things are really in dire straits. So, I called it a "Financial Disaster Relief Valve." At which time the fund, putting money Page 58 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 into the fund from the property taxes, could be suspended temporarily for one fiscal year, but in order to do that, the fund would have to be at ten million. In other words, you couldn't raid the fund, and if it met that criteria then no money would go into the fund for a year after this disaster whenever that might be. And that the Finance Department would have to come up with a written statement and cost figures to justify that reduction into the fund and the two-thirds of the County Council to vote concurrence. That is one item that I am proposing. And then I think that there might be some land acquisition flexibility where I know the Mayor, we talked, it has been discussed, about selling the land, which seems to be definitely not something that the public is in favor of, but I would think there may be times when it would be beneficial to work with say the National Park which, and there would be land that the PONC fund had purchased which would be next to the park and the park would agree to maintain that and develop it for the use of the park or developing and restoration of the forest and the native species. And so, somehow if we could write in some flexibility so that if that opportunity I would call it an opportunity arose, where the land absolutely stayed in perpetuity in a public use such as the preservation, but it could still be worked with partners to perhaps transfer the land, I am not talking about selling it but have some way to do that. And then the other thing that may occur if we had sea level rise and they needed land for flood control, or access improvements, the way that it is now, it is really difficult for them to do anything which would be beneficial to the public in the long term and then the maintenance fund, I use it, part of it, to pay the staff I think would be great. And but, PONC had, the PONC Commission had said that they needed some funds for signage and the roads, toilets, other things. I am wondering if in our discussions we could talk about only a percent of the maintenance fund would be allowed for those uses, rather than an open end because you could get into a situation where the roads could be very extensive and very expensive. And you could put in a bathroom facility that could be quite luxurious if, but if we had some kind of restriction that a certain amount of that fund could be used for those other uses, but still allow most of it to go for the actual maintenance, the tree pruning etc. that the land stewards would need, and... CHR. ADAMS: Please wrap, we have reached five minutes. MS. RICE: Oh, sorry. Okay. CHR. ADAMS: Did you want to finish anything? Is that what you wanted... Page 59 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MS. RICE: That covers the waterfront. Yes. The other things have been talked about. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Are there any other comments or questions? I do note that we have campaign Chair for the last decade plus in the audience. Do the Commissioners have any questions for Ms. Hecht? Commissioner Galimba. Ms. Hecht if you could come to the testifier's table. (Note: At this time, Debbie Hecht came forward to address the members of the Commission.) MS. HECHT: Thank you for the opportunity. CHR. ADAMS: Actually you are, the way this works, is that the Commissioners have questions, just as we did with Deputy Director Whitmore, you are being brought in because of your expertise if you will, and also your connection to it. Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Okay, thank you Ms. Hecht. So could you, I wanted to talk with you about especially the part where the covenant where that keeps the properties from being sold or transferred, could you talk about that and why it is important? MS. HECHT: Well, I know, I saw the film clip of when Mayor Kim addressed you all, and he said that he would want to get rid of that so that he could sell the lands for, because maybe they were next to a National Park or because there was an opportunity for them to take over maintenance, well, that is actually already being done. Like the National Park, like Kahuku comes to mind and they work with Hawai`i Volcanoes National Park. They have memorandums of understanding, I am sure Bobby Jean knows about that, and so, they do work together. You know the Ala Kahakai Trail, National Historic Trail, is a National Park team and they have been, matter of fact Waikapuna's coming up and they are going to be the stewardship organization. Their trail association which works closely with the National Park Historic Trail. So, there's already federal and state money. Legacy Lands, DLNR (Department of Land and Natural Resources), they already do work together, so the County doesn't need to give up their ownership right and the perpetuity part and matter of fact I think there is some real danger if that occurs. 1 mean for example, about 33% of the money that comes to purchase these lands, comes from State Legacy Lands, and also comes from U.S. Fish and Wildlife, usually for the turtles, endangered species, and then I think they got two million dollars Page 60 Hawai`i County Charter Conzn3ission5 November 9, 2018 for 0' oma so all of these people that help us out or entities with matching funds then you know, if you turn around and sell it, you really violated those matching fund agreements or spirit, or whatever, which is going to mean that the County then would probably, all that money would diminish because why would they give us money if they think these lands could be sold. I think it could also result in lawsuits and I talked to several attorneys about that. So I think one, it would get rid of the matching fund potential which is to me always one of the greatest gifts of the whole thing, and then Mayor Kim also said that you know that the County can't afford to maintain these lands. Well, that's not true. That's what we have a maintenance fund for. And that is why I hope you don't reduce the maintenance fund and don't reduce the two percent amount because if you reduce the two percent amount, you know, our idea on this legislation we are proposing, is to pay staff out of the two percent amount. That would increase the maintenance and that would increase you know the, just the reason Harry wanted to sell it and get rid of the covenant, so that is why I am saying don't reduce the two and keep the covenant and I think the covenant is important, it is also important because it honors, we had a hundred people out collecting signatures way back in 2005. It also honors 63% of voters that voted three times at the polls, you know, so if you allow the County to sell these lands, you know you are really dishonoring and disregarding and it is sort of a slap in the face of voters. I mean how are you honoring what is voted for? So that is why I think the protective covenant is a good thing. MS. GALIMBA: It's important. Well, I think that your point about it having passed through voter approval multiple times is really important for us to consider and it has been, I mean they have had this specific question, what percentage do you support. Am I right? MS. HECHT: Absolutely it did. MS. GALIMBA: So given that, what would you, how would you see strengthening or helping the fund to work better? MS. HECHT: Well, one, putting the maintenance fund under the Department of Finance, taking it out of Parks and Recreation. I think that's really good and you heard Deanna Sako, they're totally on board with that. I think taking, leaving it at two percent but paying a staff person full-time with duties limited to just the PONC fund and the maintenance fund, so acquisition of properties, allocating maintenance funds to stewardship groups, you know just somebody to actually work this two percent land fund program and I think that is why the money hasn't been spent. It is Page 61 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 not that there isn't properties. There are 180 properties that were proposed to the PONC Commission and only 14 have been acquired. So there are still 166 out there that potentially could be acquired. And, yes, some of them have been conservation zoned, but just because it is zoned conservation now doesn't mean... O`oma was conservation and that was being proposed for development, so to take the lands that make our island so beautiful, and these are treasured lands brought forward from community members, plus I think in your report it said that the you know, put a cap on it or reduce it, and if you do that and then you take the money out of the fund, these are multiple year purchases. It takes a long time to get these from the suggestion from the people to the PONC Commission, to the Department of Finance, through the Council where they have to put a resolution in to the Department of Finance to direct them to go acquire it, and then they look for matching funds, and then they go to the landowner, then they have to go back to Council, so it takes a really long time to acquire these properties so a cap and reducing it, I think is a huge mistake. 1 think having—one, you are saving the Department of Finance a salary, Hamana you know, works part-time on the PONC Fund, but that would take that out of their budget so it would save them some money and take it out of the PONC Fund. And I think it would really strengthen the fund in the best way to have somebody shepherding these acquisitions through the process and getting the stewardship groups the money they need in order to do this. I mean there are great communities built around these properties you know like friendships, people working together, I mean I never expected that all to happen. That has been the most heartening of the results. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much Ms. Hecht. MS. GALIMBA: Yes, thank you. It's been huge for Ka`u that's for sure. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Roehrig. MS. HECHT: Yes, sir. MR. ROEHRIG: I read all of your email. I read your email. MS. HECHT: Good. That's good to know. MR. ROEHRIG: I read your email that you sent to the County and I have a copy of one and I don't mean... it says "We appear before the Charter Commission in 2009 to 2010 when they put the amount at 1%, which we Page 62 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 encourage voters to vote for." So back then you were supporting one percent. MS. HECHT: Oh no. We never supported one percent. MR. ROEHRIG: What did you mean by... MS. HECHT: We didn't want it to go away, so we supported one percent because we wanted the fund to continue. We knew and we did in 2012, came back at two percent and got that on the ballot and that is where it has been. So, I mean, this is like deja vu going back to you know reducing the fund again. So, I mean in ten more years I will be, how old will I be? 77, so then I will be back here doing the same thing. I mean and that is why we are here, honestly I mean I think that we have quite a few years under our belt you know with this fund. We can really see how we can ramp it up and make something really spectacular. You know this isn't, it is also an economic engine, having these lands preserved because tourists like this is my best vision for the fund, and the National Park Services Historic Trail is really, really working on this, the 175 mile trail from Upolu Point all the way around to Hawaii Volcanoes National Park, which was the King's Trail. They are now using the money. They have acquired land in Ka`tr, they acquired land along Kaiholena, they have now land at Waikapuna, and this could be a place like the Appalachian trail where people come and visit and hike every year. I mean it would be spectacular economic engine even for the island plus preserving our greatest places on this island, so it is, don't think this year or next, and then there are disaster relief funds in the Hawai`i County budget that get raided regularly. I have been watching budget for years, and years, and years so I don't think looking at the two percent fund to relive the County's disaster relief stuff is appropriate. Let's be kind that way. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. MS. HECHT: Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Alright, we have a motion on the table. Any other discussion items? All in favor of the motion to close and file this report please signify by saying "aye", any opposed? Motion passes 7-0 with Commissioners Hopkins, Saquing, Bergin, and Zelko absent. Page 63 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 Vote on Motion To Close File on Comm. No. 3.1.1, Ad Hoc Committee Report —Section 10- 15, And 10-16 (Approved) The motion to close file on Comm. No. 3.1.1, Ad Hoc Committee Report on Section 10-15 and 10-16 was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Galirnba, Hamano, Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Todd, and Chair Adams - 7 Noes: None Absent: Commissioners Bergin, Hopkins, Saquing and Zelko-Schlueter - 4 Excused: None CHR. ADAMS: Without objection, moving back so that we can consider Communication No. 21, transmitting Charter Amendment 7 for initial approval- Proposal to amend Section 10-15 and Section 10-16 by repealing and replacing provisions for the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund, and Maintenance Fund, respectively, as submitted by Commissioner Hamann. Do I have a motion? It has been moved by Commissioner Hamano. Is there a second? Second by Commissioner Roehrig. Commissioner Hamano. MR. HAMANO: Thank you Chair Adams. I would like to speak in favor of CA -7 which proposes the deletion of Sections 10-15 and 10-16 which deals with what is called the PONC Preservation Fund and the PONC Maintenance Fund and also puts forth a replacement provision. I think we just discussed the ad hoc committee findings and I want to summarize basically the five things that the ad hoc committee addressed that were concerns. That was number one, the two percent minimum set aside, the no lapsing and the no cap provisions, the restrictive covenant provision, the provisions regarding the PONC Maintenance Fund which mandates a quarter percent set aside from real property tax revenues, and pretty much severe restrictive provisions regarding the use of these PONC Maintenance Funds and the lengthy and detailed nature of the PONC Charter provisions which is not consistent with general Charter language. Now I want to talk about some of the main provisions of this proposed amendment and first it is the minimum set aside for all PONC Funds is reduced from the current 2.25 percent to one percent. And one of the main reasons for this change is that Hawaii County has the largest set aside for the PONC Preservation Fund in the State. It is double the percentage of the next highest set aside which is Maui County at one percent. And because of the quarter percent set aside for the PONC Maintenance Fund, Hawaii County's set aside for the PONC Funds is actually 2.25%, way exceeding other counties. The 2.25% set aside for PONC Funds for fiscal year 2018-2019 is about 6.8 million dollars according to information from the Finance Department. The County of Maui has about the same real Page 64 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 property tax revenue as the County of Hawai`i which is why a one percent set aside appears to be a more reasonable amount. Most members of the ad hoc committee actually recommended that the PONC Preservation Fund be lowered from two percent to half a percent. Okay, however, since this proposal deletes existing Section 10-16, being the PONC Maintenance Fund Provision and the quarter percent set aside, this proposal mandates that out of the one percent set aside, that a quarter percent be set aside for the PONC Maintenance Fund. So in essence there would be a .75% set aside for the PONC Preservation Fund and a .25% set aside for the PONC Maintenance Fund. Now another reason for lowering the set aside amount for the PONC Funds is of course the budgetary concerns of the County and that was made clear to us from the Finance Director. Reduced real property tax revenues from lava destruction and added expenditures from disaster relief and support, which appears to be more of a regular occurrence all point to the fact that the County would have less money to fund non-essential County services and programs. The second major proposed change is a Section which allows for the suspension of the appropriation requirement and this occurs when the balance of the preservation fund and the maintenance fund exceed two percent of the annual real property tax revenue or the Director of Finance determines it is necessary to prevent a reduction in the level of public services. But this has a check and balance for the Council to approve the suspension by a two-thirds vote. So I believe there is a check and balance there. It is just not the Executive Branch, you know, on its discretion you know, making the determination. There is a check and balance for the Council to approve by two-thirds majority. To me, it does not appear to be wise public policy for a Charter provision that mandates a money appropriation to not have a provision that suspends the mandatory expenditure when the expenditure is not a critical government service. Also, the provision provides for a check and balance of government and power authority between the Executive Branch which would request the suspension for the stated reason, and the Legislative Branch which would have to approve the suspension by a two-thirds majority. So there are many layers of decision making that must be made before a suspension of appropriation occurs which should be enough to put off arbitrary decisions to suspend the appropriation. This also addresses the concerns of lapsing of the funds and a cap on the amount of the PONC funds accumulated. If accumulated funds are deemed too excessive, the Executive Branch can request for suspension with of course a two-thirds approval of the Council. The merits and demerits of suspension can be argued before the Council by members of Page 65 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 the public and the Council can make its decision based on informed current facts. The third proposed replacement provision in Section B, also enumerates what the PONC Preservation Fund can be used for, which is the same as the current provision except it adds a provision for improving disabled and public access to and enjoyment of public land, open space and recreational facilities. Nowhere in the current provision is there a provision allowing for disabled access. In fact we were told that the current language in the PONC Maintenance Fund precludes that. I believe we should have provisions that do not discriminate on our disabled residents. Number four is regarding the PONC Maintenance Fund and instead of basically the nearly four pages of terms in the Charter regarding the PONC Maintenance Fund, the proposed amendment in subsection C, simply states that monies in the maintenance fund shall be utilized to maintain and improve land or property entitlements for land conservation purposes in Hawai`i County acquired pursuant to this Section. The current provisions of the PONC Maintenance Funds are far too restrictive and has impeded the very purpose of having PONC funds to acquire lands for public use. The regulations and parameters for use of PONC Maintenance Funds can be dealt with by ordinance as proposed by Section F that states that "the Council by ordinance shall establish procedures for the Administration and expenditures of revenues in this fund." Number five, the new provision does not have a restrictive covenant provision. The ad hoc committee found that there are times when... (Bell ring) MR. HAMANO: Mr. Chair, may I have a couple more minutes? CHR. ADAMS: Without objection? MR. HAMANO: Thank you Chairman. The new provision does not have a restrictive covenant provision. The ad hoc committee found that there are times when to maintain or enhance the use of the PONC acquired property, negligible changes in titles are necessary. Moreover the Council may adopt ordinances to allow for transfer of PONC acquired properties to land conservation organizations which will steward and take care of these properties, which is what other counties allow for. Overall, I believe that deleting the current PONC Preservation Fund and the PONC Maintenance Fund sections and replacing it with streamlined broader and far less restrictive provisions, will allow for the acquisition and maintenance of the PONC lands for actual use and enjoyment by residents and visitors Page 66 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 alike in a fiscally responsible manner and allows for checks and balances between the Legislative Branch of the County Council and the Executive Branch under the Mayor. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Discussion? MS. RICE: I appreciate very much that report. However, rather than deleting our entire Charter stipulations for the preservation funds, I think that it would be better to modify them with some of the suggestions that have already been made. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. I should note also that Director Sako is available in the Hilo Chambers if anyone has anyone has any questions related to this topic. Any other, Commissioner Springer. MS. SPRINGER: I would like to have Director Sako come up to the mic. CHR. ADAMS: She heard you and she is making her way to the table. MS. SAKO: Good evening. MS. SPRINGER: Thank you Director Sako. I wish, oh, I was hoping we could ask if you could enlighten us as to the problems that you have encountered with the use of the Maintenance Fund, what it has been able to be used for. MS. SAKO: Well I think you know, if you look at the current language in the Charter, it is very precise, very specific and so it is also very limiting so the, on page, well, it's page 42 of my Charter, but it is actually Section 10-16 (g), it gives you know, what is allowed it to be used for and so the expenditures can be used for reparation, fixing or repairing or mending, preservation, conservation of soil, restoration, wild fire prevention, things like that. We can replace signs but there is nothing new here. You know, we can't build restrooms, we you know, it's very difficult to kind of fit the things we need to do to be able to let's say, develop the property into a park or something where the public can actually use it, and so that is one of the areas that we have had concerns with and if, I am not sure if Hamana is still there, but he can probably expand on that as well. CHR. ADAMS: Please identify yourself, I would appreciate that. MR. VENTURA: Good Afternoon Commissioners. My name is Hamana Ventura. I am the property manager. Page 67 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: And did you want to address some of the part I guess that we were just talking about with 10-16? MR. VENTURA: So some of the challenges we have had with the Maintenance Fund we talked about with the ad hoc committee, is that we find it to be restrictive at times, especially when it comes to potential stewardship applicants and then the use of the funds, so as it has been written and then put into place, we have some issues when it comes to the public and possible enjoyment. People are asking about comfort stations, inability to meet ADA requirements, those are two of our largest issues. And then, some of the restrictions that these applicants are looking at as far as what are allowable and not allowable when it comes to how the funds can be disbursed. MS. SPRINGER: It was my understanding too that the funds for people that maintain the stewardships, that they can't really use it to purchase equipment to go in and, or maybe I guess they can use it for smaller pieces of equipment versus something bigger? MR. VENTURA: That's correct. MS. SPRINGER: And that is because of the way that it is written? Or is it because of ownership of the equipment. MR. VENTURA: I think it is more so ownership and liability. MS. SPRINGER: Okay, that's all I have. MR. VENTURA: Okay. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Springer. Are there other questions or comments? MS. GALIMBA: Sure, Mr. Ventura... CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. While you are up here, I just wanted to ask about your work duties that we have been discussing one possible proposal of getting funding for a position to be full-time on working on PONC acquisitions. Do you work on it full-time and would having funding for another position be helpful to make the fund work better? Page 68 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MR. VENTURA: Well, our department works on the PONC, the Open Space Program full-time so it is part of our duties, it is just part of our whole position descriptions and so, we put full-time effort into it. As far as funding another position and so forth, I think each department, whatever division you talk about would say yeah, we would love to have more bodies, but we work within the parameters that we are given and we do our job and we address the position full-time in the sense that where our department is assigned to it full-time. MS. GALIMBA: Okay, so I guess there has been some sort of hints that perhaps that you get drawn away at some times to work on other projects, or... MR. VENTURA: Well property management, we take care of the real property in general and the Open Space Fund or Open Space Program is just one of the facets of property management. MS. GALIMBA: Okay, thanks, that's... Mahalo. CHR. ADAMS: Any other comments or questions? Let me just ask a couple of questions if I could. So, if we take, when I was looking at the proposal, where does 10-16 go? Is it just considered to be part of what the Council would then use by ordinance, they would handle the Maintenance Fund? Was that the idea? MR. HENRICKS: Commissioner Hamann, could you please turn your microphone on? Thank you. Sony. MR. HAMANO: Sony. MR. HENRICKS: No problem, thank you. MR. HAMANO: We will delete 10-16 and there is that one provision, general provision regarding what the Maintenance Fund is used for and outside of that you know, the parameters of the use of the Maintenance Fund, you know, it states in the proposal that the County Council can enact ordinances consistent with that provision. CHR. ADAMS: So I appreciate that. So in saying that, is there a concern in developing this that maybe, let me ask the question this way, in your examination of the other counties and their Maintenance Fund, whatever it Page 69 Hawai` i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 looks like, or in their ordinances, did you see any indication where that you know moved around year to year, where the, or was it pretty much handled that if it was in the ordinance that they were able to accomplish what they needed to accomplish with it being an ordinance as opposed to being in the Charter? MR. HAMANO: For example, I think it is stated in here somewhere, I guess in the report, that this current proposal is based on the Maui County Charter. CHR. ADAMS: Right, I got that part. MR. HAMANO: Yeah, and you know they have enacted some elaborate ordinances that I believe have been that way for a while. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. So, you didn't necessarily have the opportunity to see whether in Maui's situation their maintenance was impacted because it was it was in their ordinances as opposed to in their Charter? MR. HAMANO: No. CHR. ADAMS: Yeah, okay, and then part of this is the idea of trying to streamline the Charter. MR. HAMANO: That's con-ect. CHR. ADAMS: Right. The idea being not that you want to get rid of these procedures necessarily but you want to make sure that the procedures have flexibility and you see that being in the ordinance and under the Council's purview that that flexibility can exist. MR. HAMANO: That is correct. CHR. ADAMS: What about the concern though that we have heard expressed both in written testimony as well as in the oral testimony, that there have been indications in the past, not just indications but actual actions in the past where there were suspension of this program when it was actually a, it was ordinance based as opposed to Charter based? MR. HAMANO: Well, now my understanding is that it has always been Charter based in the County of Hawai`i. So, I don't know how they could have suspended it. Page 70 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 MR. HENRICKS: Chair Adams, just a very brief history on that. It was not always Charter based. It was in the Hawai`i County Code first because it was placed in as a petition where you can amend the Code through a process where you put things on the ballot and then it was placed into the Charter for the purposes of making it more durable over time. There still are Code provisions for the fund that largely, in the Code, that largely -mirror what is in the Charter, but it was initially a Code, an ordinance that was then established in the Charter. Just, son -y, I just wanted to point that out. CHR. ADAMS: No, No, I appreciate that. So in terms of, so then the concern would be, so let's take, let's streamline the Charter, that is generally a benefit, but in doing so, then we are relying on the Council to "do the right thing." Or the Executive Branch to "Do the right thing." MR. HAMANO: That's correct, but then there would be the checks and balances there. Like for example, you know the suspension provision, you know, I believe that that would be a good check and balance to prevent any kind of arbitrary you know, suspension of the fund unless there was a real good reason for it and it would have to go to the Council by a two- thirds vote with public testimony and that kind of thing to go through the process. CHR. ADAMS: Is that in the Charter proposal that I was sent? MR. HAMANO: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: I am not seeing anything that says two -third vote. I am solTy. C? I am looking at... MR. HENRICKS: If I may, I think Chair Adams is asking if the provisions, I think that maybe that was confused where Mr. Hamano didn't mean to imply that any ordinance or issues with the Maintenance Fund will require two-thirds vote of the Council. Mr. Hamano is referring to the suspension of the fund for the two reasons that are provided, would require a two-thirds vote, but I think you were asking about the Maintenance Fund if I am not mistaken. CHR. ADAMS: Neither. I am looking... MR. HENRICKS: Neither. Very good. Page 71 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Yeah. I heard two-thirds vote. 1 assumed that that meant to be able to suspend the idea of the fund, not the Maintenance Fund, but the fund. MR. HAMANO: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: And as I am looking at the proposal, clearly I am blind but that is beside the point, I am noticing that essentially we are taking out 10-15 and 10-16 and then we are replacing it with essentially a modified version of Section 9-19 of the Maui County Charter. MR. HAMANO: That's correct. CHR. ADAMS: So in doing that, I then, you very nicely provided us with Section 9-19 of the Maui County Charter to include leaving the teen County of Maui in there, and so, I am looking to see where it says that there is a suspension possibility in here and I am just, where is that at. MR. HAMANO: Oh, yeah, you mean in the Maui? CHR. ADAMS: No in the proposal, I mean this Section 9-19 is the proposal for us right? MR. HENRICKS: Chair Adams, it's Paul's proposal is the Exhibit C, it is the very last two pages. MR. HAMANO: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: See, I told you I was blind. MR. HAMANO: It's C, Exhibit C. CHR. ADAMS: Sorry. Nice to read the right thing huh? Got it. Thank you. And then there is no 10-16. It goes away. MR. HAMANO: That's correct. That will be essentially replaced by Section C. CHR. ADAMS: Yes. I mean I understand 10-15 and 10-16 would be replaced with Exhibit C, right, I understand. That is the proposal. Got it. Okay. Any other questions? Page 72 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 Let me just make a parliamentary comment if I may. You will notice that we now have seven, we now have six members here, still a quorum, but any vote on substance, matters of substance, such as a Charter Amendment, requires a majority of the entire Commission, so in this case, that would mean six votes to pass the Charter amendment. So, we have the motion on the floor, is there any other motion? I would also recall, I would also identify that any motion that comes up, any Charter amendment that comes up and is voted down, is then voted down for the remainder of our time. MR. HAMANO: Yeah. Well... CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba. So yeah, I just wanted to get some clarification on that. So, if we vote it down, that doesn't mean that we can't come up with a completely different proposal right? CHR. ADAMS: You could come up with a completely different proposal, but it would have to be completely different. Our rules say that you don't get to get a, you remember I told you about we get three bites of the apple? That is after it has been you know, we have looked at it and it has passed right, we vote it down, we don't get another look at this. MR. HENRICKS: Chair Adams, if I may. CHR. ADAMS: Please. MR. HENRICKS: I would replace the word completely with substantially. It doesn't need to be completely different, but it needs to be substantially different. CHR. ADAMS: I am sorry, one second. Commissioner Hamano. MR. HAMANO: Urn, yes, you know, I think this is a really important matter that I think should be considered by the full Commission, and so I would like to propose postponing this matter to the next meeting. CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second to that? It has been moved to postpone this to the December meeting and it has been seconded by Commissioner Springer. Any discussion? I think given the impact that this has, and also the fact that there are a variety of opinions on this, the idea of having the opportunity to gather information would also be helpful in that regard. Any other discussion? Page 73 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 Vote on Motion To Postpone Initial Approval of (CA -7) to Dec. 14th Meeting (Approved) November 9, 2018 All in favor of the motion to postpone until December please signify by saying "aye". Any opposed? The motion passes 6-0. With Commissioners Bergin, Hopkins, Saquing, Zelko, and Todd absent. The motion to postpone initial approval of CA -7 to the December 14h1' meeting, was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Galimba, Hamano, Rice, Roehrig, Springer, and Chair Adams -6 Noes: None Absent: Commissioners Bergin, Hopkins, Saquing, Todd, and Zelko-Schlueter— 5 Excused: None Alright, let's move then into Reports, Item 2, the Communication No. 3.2.1, Ad Hoc Committee Report Section 3-2 Composition and Terms of Council Members, Findings and Recommendations as Submitted by Commissioners Rice, as the Chair, Bergin, Hopkins, and Leithead-Todd, has been submitted. Alright. Seeing no referrals necessary for Executive Session, we will move into our next item, which is Agenda Items for Next Regularly Scheduled Meeting. The Next Regularly Scheduled Meeting is in the Announcements but that will be in December. We have managed to make our way through, I actually was surprised that we are actually making our way through this agenda. Now, is there anything that anyone has for the December meeting? Other than more proposals? MR. HENRICKS: Chair Adams, if I could just make two quick comments that are related to the agenda. CHR. ADAMS: Please. MR. HENRICKS: So today, CA -1, Draft 2 was passed on first reading but because of our protocols that we want to take everything to Public Hearing, so the understanding is that it won't be on the next agenda. It will be held in a holding place until after the Public Hearings. I just wanted to make that announcement and we will find a way to communicate that publicly on the agenda. Page 74 Hawaii County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 CHR, ADAMS: Thank you. MR. HENRICKS: So the second thing I wanted to talk to Commissioners about is that this process of proposing amendments, it need not wait necessarily until we are in discussion. If you would like to submit a proposed amendment in a written form that you have time to think about, that is completely possible, just contact us, email us and say how you would like to amend an existing proposal, and actually it can be quite efficient because it will be written down and there will be time to delve into it and really fine tune the language at least from the standpoint of you as a single Commissioner that would like to do that. If it is done in time where we can put it on the agenda, then it will be on the agenda for full public consumption and full notice of the rest of the Commissioners, however, it need not be presented in time to be on the agenda for the Commissioners to use it during a meeting. We will number it as a communication, so I just wanted to, I should have mentioned that earlier, but it came to mind that any Commissioner can propose an amendment to any other Commissioner's or their own proposals, and if you would like to do that in a written format, just work with us, submit it, we will work to develop that into a communication that can be used. Thank you for that time. CHR. ADAMS: For an administrative perspective, let me just add to that that if you, you may not actually see the proposals until you get the agenda, so when you take a look at them and you say hey there is something that I would want to make an amendment to, it is okay, what we are hearing is, contact the staff, say I would like to propose an amendment, I am going to propose an amendment to this, or it is possible, and in doing that, getting that write up, allows them to actually have it prepared so that we can then take a look at it in black and white on that day. It may be that all that work was done for nothing because you decide not to do that, but I think the staff's preference is that they actually have it in black and white so that we can take a look at it, not take recesses so that we can try to figure out what it is we are actually trying to say. MEETING It doesn't mean that that won't happen, but if we can utilize the ability to ANNOUNCE- do the amendments prior, then that will be great too. Okay. Not seeing MENT: any other conversation items, for the agenda items for the next regularly scheduled meeting, Announcements, our next regularly scheduled meeting is Friday, December 14, 2018 in the Hilo Chambers at 1:30 p.m. If you are not able to make that meeting, please let Shannon know so that we can know. But, I wish everyone a happy and safe Thanksgiving. If any of you are in Hilo tomorrow, we will be having the Veteran's Day Parade. This Page 75 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -5 November 9, 2018 is an unabashedly, um, unabashed commercial for that. And be safe during the month of December. Many of you will have gone to many of the December parties before we actually meet. I know that so, enjoy those while you do. ADJOURNMENT: I entertain a motion to adjourn. Alright. 6-0. Commission Approval: December 14, 2018 glass Shipman Adams, Chair 020 Hawai`i County Charter Commission Page 76