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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-11-27 Salary Commission MinutesPage 1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS SALARY COMMISSION MEETING Held at the Hawaii County Building, 25 Aupuni Street, Hilo, Hawaii, 96720, commencing at 9:31 a.m., on November 27, 2018. REPORTED BY: TERI HOSKINS, RMR, CSR #452 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 APPEARANCES CHAIR: HUGH Y. ONO, P. E. BOARD MEMBERS: FLORENCE K. IKEDA THOMAS E. FRATINARDO GEORGE W. CAMPBELL JAMES W. HIGGINS HAROLD D. DOW, M. D. NELSON H. HARANO ABSENT & EXCUSED: MILTON PAVAO,P. E. ALSO PRESENT: WILLIAM BRILHANTE, JR. EX -OFFICIO MEMBER AMY SELF, DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL GLYNIS YAMADA, COMMISSION SECRETARY JENNIFER SAKAMOTO, HR MICHELE LAMKIN, HR ALLAN YOKOYAMA, HR NANCY COOK-LAUER KIM KAILIPAKA, HR ROBERT BECKER, FIRE COMMISSION ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 2 Page 3 1 CHR. ONO: I'll call the Salary Commission 2 meeting to order. 3 Bill is signing some documents, and he will 4 be here. And Milton must be on his way; I haven't 5 heard anything else other than that. So why don't we 6 start with the -- I might mention that we have quite a 7 lengthy agenda today, and so I'm hoping that we are 8 able to complete efficiently and effectively. 9 So if the Commissioners would mind keeping 10 their input, you know, very direct and related to the 11 subject matter, we would appreciate that. 12 And so, let's start with the roll call with 13 George. 14 MR. CAMPBELL: George Campbell, Ka'u, South 15 Kona. 16 MR. HIGGINS: Jim Higgins, 7. 17 CHR. ONO: Hugh Ono, Chair. 18 MS. IKEDA: Florence Ikeda, District 2. 19 MR. DOW: Harold Dow, District 5. 20 MR. FRATINARDO: Thomas Fratinardo, District 21 1. 22 MR. HARANO: Nelson Harano, District 6. 23 CHR. ONO: Okay. I think some of your mics. 24 are off, but maybe because we are really not interested 25 in hearing what you say. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 4 1 MR. HIGGINS: That's my man. 2 MR. CAMPBELL: The truth comes out. 3 CHR. ONO: We have statements from the public. 4 We have Mr. Sadegh. 5 And so, Mr. Sadegh, welcome to the 6 microphone. I would appreciate if you keep it to three 7 minutes today, please. 8 MR. SADEGH: Yes, Sir. 9 Good morning. My name is Aboghassen Abraham 10 Sadegh. I'm founder of the Universal Realm of the Lord 11 Almighty, based on the premise that believing in God is 12 optional, believing in humanity is not. 13 I was here because at the last meeting of the 14 Commission, one of the things that you mentioned, 15 Mr. Ono, was regarding who decides what. You mentioned 16 that the Human Resources actually seems to be in charge 17 of what the Commission (inaudible), and I think 18 that's not -- that's not the case; but that's not what 19 I want to talk about. 20 I mentioned this as well, that the 21 reason people are interested -- when their money is an 22 issue, the people are interested in what's going on. 23 The reason, almost, there is no member of the public 24 here is because this is not a way to announce it. This 25 is the calendar from the Saturday, November 24, two ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 5 1 pages that are connected together, but this appears on 2 Saturdays. And we have art exhibits and classes and 3 health and clubs and just for keiki and pau Kana -- I 4 don't know what that means -- outdoors performances, 5 and then finally, under the performances, it seems, 6 or -- sorry -- all kinds of stuff, then appears 7 Tuesday, November 27, Salary Commission. 8 The reason nobody is here from the public is 9 because the people don't probably see it. So I would 10 recommend, considering the importance of this 11 Commission, dealing with people's money, before, 12 apparently with 100 percent responsibility -- thanks to 13 Ms. Leeloy, at least there is a dent in there now -- 14 that it would really be published so that people would 15 see. I would recommend page 1. 16 And then, secondly, am I understanding that, 17 Ladies and Gentlemen, you are here on voluntary basis? 18 Am I correct? You don't get... 19 CHR. ONO: That is correct. 20 MR. SADEGH: That also doesn't make sense 21 because it seems like, you know, you're here on your 22 own time, so what does anybody has the right to say 23 anything about what you do? I believe you should have, 24 on a relative basis, the highest level of payment for 25 the time you spend here. Then you will be responsible ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 6 1 like this, consciously. You will be responsible to 2 those who pay the taxes, most of whom are at the bottom 3 of the pyramid and I think then that would make you a 4 bit more conscious of the public, perhaps, and on what 5 you do. 6 And that's all I wanted to say. Thank you. 7 CHR. ONO: Well, thank you so very much. 8 Just my comment to that. I'm not looking for 9 a response from you. These procedures are run by 10 statute and administrative rules, so we're just 11 following what's in existence right now. But I thank 12 you for your comments, and it's the second time you've 13 noted about the -- 14 MR. SADEGH: I just want to -- if you don't 15 mind, I feel my three minutes is not up. 16 I mentioned something else also, that, if you 17 don't know, at least you would know it from someone who 18 has lived here now -- this is my ninth year in Hilo and 19 the 40th year in the United States -- that, 20 unfortunately, the County of Hawaii is a police state 21 and our system of government oligarchy, the 1 percent 22 that makes all the decision and the 99 percent subject. 23 Thank you. 24 CHR. ONO: Okay. Thank you very much. 25 Okay. So next on the agenda is approval of ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 7 1 the minutes, and we have the minutes of September 17th, 2 2018. 3 May I have a motion to approve those minutes? 4 MR. CAMPBELL: So moved. 5 CHR. ONO: Second? 6 MS. IKEDA: Second. 7 CHR. ONO: Okay. Moved by George Campbell and 8 seconded by Florence. 9 Any discussion on those minutes? 10 Hearing none, all those in favor for approval 11 say "Aye." 12 (All members responded affirmatively.) 13 CHR. ONO: All those opposed? 14 The motion is carried. 15 Okay, "Communications." We have none. 16 Under "New Business," the first item is 17 "Procedural/Policy Discussion: How to handle questions 18 and queries to any member of the Salary Commission." 19 And this was raised at the previous meeting, I think, 20 by Mr. Higgins, if I recall correct. 21 MR. HIGGINS: Uh-huh. 22 CHR. ONO: So, Mr. Higgins, do you want to 23 start the discussion on this? 24 MR. HIGGINS: Well, I think it just -- it 25 speaks for itself. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 8 1 CHR. ONO: It does, yeah. 2 MR. HIGGINS: I think that we're of high 3 visibility in some cases, especially recently, when we 4 went through the discussions and the approvals of the 5 raises and fixing the inversion problem. And so, if 6 somebody were to call any one of us at home or run into 7 us at Costco, what is the appropriate answer, or what 8 is appropriate in either turning somebody off, or who 9 do we refer them to, or do we refer them to the 10 previous minutes, or -- anyway, I think that we should 11 have that more formulated so that it's not a flip of 12 the coin for any of us; it's cut-and-dried on what the 13 appropriate response would be. 14 CHR. ONO: I think this might be a good one 15 for Amy. 16 Amy, can you comment on what you have seen in 17 the past or what other people or commissions have done 18 with the kind of queries that come to a member and it's 19 not at the meeting here? 20 MS. SELF: Actually, under Sunshine Law, any 21 communication that is given to one commissioner should 22 be distributed to all members. It's difficult when 23 you're asked something verbally instead of having the 24 communication in writing. So, you may want to suggest 25 that they send an e-mail so that that e-mail can be put ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 9 1 on the agenda as a communication so that it's 2 distributed to all the commissioners. That's what I 3 would suggest. 4 CHR. ONO: That sounds like a logical thing to 5 do because it's really not right for any one 6 commissioner to speak for the entire Commission. 7 MR. HIGGINS: Well, sometimes it's just an 8 innocent thing, like you run into somebody at Costco 9 and, "Hey, what about that pay raise?" And you make a 10 very innocent, "We followed the statutes" or something, 11 and all of a sudden Nancy has got an article that some 12 reader called in to her and made some comment about 13 Mr. Higgins making a comment at Costco, which may or 14 may not be true at all, could be a fabrication; but "I 15 did meet Mr. Higgins in Costco, and he said this." So 16 I want to protect myself and George and all the rest of 17 us from -- 18 CHR. ONO: Uh-huh. Certainly. 19 MR. HIGGINS: -- that kind of encounter. 20 So I don't know about answering, "Well, would 21 you send us an e-mail?" I don't know. Anyway, if it 22 happens, I would do that. 23 CHR. ONO: You know, it really depends on the 24 content of the query. Some of it is just, you know, 25 information which is already public information, so I ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 10 1 don't see any harm in that, but when they're asking 2 positions that are taken by this entire Commission, 3 none of us should be answering for the entire 4 Commission unless it's a motion that we've acted on 5 already -- 6 MS. SELF: Uh-huh. 7 CHR. ONO: -- and it's been something that's 8 approved. 9 MS. SELF: And, if you don't feel comfortable 10 responding to a question, just refer them to the Salary 11 Commission. They can always -- 12 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. 13 MS. SELF: -- come here and listen to the 14 meetings and testify. They have that -- 15 MR. HIGGINS: I have no doubt that any of us 16 would not handle it appropriately. My whole point was 17 just bringing this to the forefront so that it shows 18 that we've discussed it. That's, basically, it. 19 CHR. ONO: Any comment by any of the other 20 Commissioners. I'd be interested in hearing what you 21 folks have to say. 22 MR. FRATINARDO: This morning, my co -host -- 23 you know, I've been announcing this meeting for the 24 last couple of weeks, and my co -host this morning was 25 asking me, "Well, exactly what do you people do?" And ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 11 1 I said, "Well, just refer to Chapter 13, Section 28 of 2 the Hawaii County Charter. And we did that, and that 3 was that. We didn't speculate." I said, "We deal with 4 these matters as they come before the Commission, so if 5 you'd like to participate, come down and testify." And 6 I invited the public to come down and testify. 7 CHR. ONO: Okay. Nelson? 8 MR. HARANO: I try not to implicate the 9 Commission at all, you know. I defer statements. I 10 hardly get asked. I mean, it's more people that I 11 do -- people that, you know, I talk to or know me, it's 12 more complaining from their side more than, you know, a 13 question from their side, so -- 14 CHR. ONO: Dr. Dow? 15 MR. DOW: I've had inquiries, actually, from 16 family and friends, not from anybody just out in the 17 general public, but their interest has been "What does 18 the Salary Commission do and why do they do it?" And 19 I tell them that "I don't speak for the whole 20 Commission. I'm a member of that Commission," but I 21 represent myself only in the conversation, and I tell 22 them what the Salary Commission does. 23 I think in trying to protect privacy, what is 24 important to me is for there not to be any printed 25 disclosure of e-mail address or telephone number or ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 12 1 place of residence. So beyond that, I'm happy to have 2 a conversation with anybody about what the Salary 3 Commission does and where they get their authority. 4 CHR. ONO: Thank you. 5 Florence? 6 MS. IKEDA: I just get jokes about the Salary 7 Commission and what we did. Nobody asked me any 8 opinions of things. 9 CHR. ONO: Are they good jokes or bad jokes? 10 MS. IKEDA: Debatable. But, I mean, that's 11 all I do. I mean, I always say "Read the paper" or "Go 12 to the meetings," but I just take their jokes in 13 stride. 14 CHR. ONO: Well, here's what the Chair 15 recommends. I would recommend we not formalize 16 anything on this. I think we all have an understanding 17 of what's appropriate discussion and what's not and, 18 you know, what doesn't belong as far as any one of us 19 representing the entire Commission. 20 So, if everybody is okay, we can just leave it 21 at that without any motion. Is the group comfortable 22 with that? 23 MR. HARANO: Yes 24 MR. CAMPBELL: Yep. 25 CHR. ONO: And I'm glad you brought this up, ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 13 1 Mr. Higgins because you know, it's just good 2 discussion. Thank you. 3 Okay. So let's move on to -- the next item 4 is "Procedural/Policy Discussion: Redaction of 5 information contained in documents (i.e. e-mail 6 addresses, phone numbers, addresses.)" I think it 7 somewhat pertains to the last thing, but I'm not sure 8 where this originated from. 9 Hi, Bill. Welcome. 10 MR. BRILHANTE: Hello, Chair. 11 CHR. ONO: Does anybody know where this item 12 came from? 13 MR. DOW: At our last meeting, there was a 14 document that had some black marks -- 15 MR. HIGGINS: Oh, yeah. 16 MR. DOW: -- through information, and the 17 question was raised what was that and why was it 18 redacted? 19 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. 20 CHR. ONO: Uh-huh. Glynis, do you know where 21 this thing came from? What are we supposed to be 22 discussing on it? 23 MS. YAMADA: Oh, there was a question last 24 meeting where some of the information from Susan Dursin 25 and your private e-mail was redacted because it was ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 14 1 personal e-mail addresses. So there was a discussion 2 about what is our policy, or what should we do as far 3 as redaction? And it was brought up that according to 4 Sunshine Law, that personal information is -- Amy can 5 comment on. 6 CHR. ONO: What is this here? 7 MS. SELF: Okay. Under Sunshine Law, 8 generally, everything is public. There are exceptions 9 to that rule under 92F-13; and one of the things that 10 can remain confidential is anything that someone has a 11 right of privacy to, and that would be things like 12 residential addresses, personal telephone numbers. If 13 it's a business, there's no right to privacy in their 14 address or phone number or any of that. Social 15 Security numbers are confidential, date of birth, those 16 sorts of things. 17 When things are distributed to this 18 Commission, it doesn't need to be redacted, but it 19 cannot go out to the public unredacted. So what I 20 would suggest is if Glynis gives you things -- and 21 she'll know whether or not there's confidential 22 information; you probably don't need to see it anyway, 23 but if she distributes something that is not redacted, 24 then I would suggest that it be collected by her at the 25 end of the meeting so that she can shred it so that we ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 15 1 know that confidential information is not getting out 2 to the public because it should not. 3 CHR. ONO: Any further discussion on this? I 4 think this is primarily for information only. It 5 sounds like it to me, anyway. 6 Anything further? 7 Bill, you haven't said anything so far. 8 MR. BRILHANTE: That means it's a good day, 9 Chair. 10 CHR. ONO: Okay. For the record, Milton Pavao 11 is not feeling well, so I don't believe that he's going 12 to be here. So, he's officially excused. 13 Okay. The next item is "Status of Salary 14 Commission Hugh Ono concerning resignation." 15 Yeah, I just put this on the agenda because 16 today is my last meeting. I will be resigning. This 17 is for personal reasons. I am in a situation which 18 does not lend itself positively to being a member of 19 this Commission, so I will be resigning. No, I am not 20 sick. Maybe some of you think I'm mentally ill, but I 21 seem to be of sound mind. 22 So, with that, we're going on to the next 23 item, which is election of officers. And we had 24 postponed this previously, but with my resignation at 25 the end of this meeting, the new chair and the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 16 1 vice -chair will take over effective at the close of 2 business at this meeting. 3 So, with that, I open the meeting up for 4 nominations for the Commission chair first. 5 MS. IKEDA: I want to say that I can't be 6 nominated because I'm going to go through two surgeries 7 next year. 8 MR. HIGGINS: I would like to nominate as 9 chair this tremendous gentleman that's sitting next to 10 my right, George. 11 CHR. ONO: Okay. So noted. 12 MR. FRATINARDO: I second that, District 1. 13 CHR. ONO: Any other nominations? 14 Any discussion? 15 Hearing no discussion, all those in favor of 16 electing George as the chair of the Commission 17 beginning close of business today say "Aye." 18 (All members responded affirmatively.) 19 CHR. ONO: Any nays? 20 I don't think we have to call for a roll 21 call because I don't think there's any. 22 Is there anyone who is habut over here? No. 23 Okay. 24 So, George, congratulations to you. 25 MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you. Sit me on the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 17 1 other side of the room from him after this. 2 CHR. ONO: You can take on Mr. 3 Sadegh's recommendation that we all get paid. 4 MR. SADEGH: Mr. Chairman, would you please 5 give his last name. 6 CHR. CAMPBELL: Campbell. 7 So, now let's open it up for nominations for 8 the vice -chair position. 9 Okay. We'll take nominations. 10 MR. HIGGINS: I would like to nominate Tom 11 for vice -chair. 12 MR. FRATINARDO: I accept. 13 CHR. ONO: Okay. 14 Any further discussion? Okay. No, we don't 15 need a second. Do we need a second? That's a motion? 16 Yeah, it is a motion. Okay, we need a 17 second. 18 MR. HARANO: I second the motion. 19 CHR. ONO: Okay. 20 Who moved that? Oh, Jim again. Okay. And 21 then seconded by Nelson, that Tom Fratinardo become the 22 vice -chair of the Commission. And so, any discussion? 23 Not hearing any, again, all those in favor 24 say "Aye." 25 (All members responded affirmatively.) ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 CHR. ONO: And any nays? 2 Motion carried. 3 Congratulations, you two. 4 Okay. So moving on -- boy, we're moving on 5 at a pretty good clip. I didn't think that we would go 6 this fast. 7 The next item is the "Review of existing 8 compensation plan to include discussion and 9 consideration on proposals for adjustments to future 10 salaries of executives and elected officials beginning 11 July 1, 2019." So I think it's appropriate to discuss 12 item No. 2, item No. B, item B.i. and B.ii and C all 13 together. 14 You know what? Let me take something out of 15 order. And so, the overtime compensation for executives 16 and officials, let me take that out of order because 17 that's a little different animal -- before we talk 18 about the salary schedules for the forthcoming ones. 19 So that one says that "Adjustments to 20 salaries for extraordinary demands due to disaster 21 response." And that was raised by both, I think, 22 myself and Mr. Fratinardo; and it's because we're aware 23 that certain appointed officials, especially in this 24 unique situation where we have multi -disasters going 25 on, were spending almost continuous hours up in the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 19 1 Civil Defense headquarters doing disaster response and 2 management and control, and as appointed officials 3 under the Salary Commission, they do not get any 4 additional compensation for that. 5 So, with that, is there any discussion on 6 that? 7 MS. IKEDA: Hugh? 8 CHR. ONO: Yeah. Go ahead. 9 MS. IKEDA: Was there, at any time prior to 10 this, compensation given to any of these people? 11 CHR. ONO: I don't know. I don't believe so. 12 MR. BRILHANTE: I can answer -- 13 CHR. ONO: Go ahead, Bill. 14 MR. BRILHANTE: -- the question. 15 Thank you for giving me the opportunity to 16 provide input on this topic. It is of great concern to 17 me, just the idea of paying the department heads and 18 deputies -- the discussion regarding overtime 19 compensation. Historically, municipalities do not pay 20 department heads and deputies overtime. It's just when 21 you accept the appointment to that position, the 22 understanding is that you're there and you're there 23 taking the position on a 24-hour basis, you know; 24 you're not just there 7:45 to 4:30. You accept the 25 position as a department head and with the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 20 1 understanding that you're going to be there 24/7. And 2 I think this is a slippery slope. 3 You know, one of the things that you are 4 tasked with, one of the duties you're tasked with, is 5 setting the salary for the mayor, and I think it's just 6 unconscionable that we're going to say, "Okay, now 7 there's a disaster, so now we're going to pay the mayor 8 time -and -a -half for overtime for those type of 9 situations" -- or anybody, Department of Public Works. 10 And what constitutes a major disaster? Who 11 is going to be making that determination? I think 12 there's a lot of ambiguity with this. 13 And there's other avenues, other courses of 14 action, which historically department heads, deputies, 15 you know, have utilized in the past when it comes to 16 reimbursement. Although they don't get time -and -a -half 17 for the hours they work, oftentimes the mayor can grant 18 administrative leave to a department head or a deputy 19 when they see that they have put in a lot of hours at 20 the EOC. 21 I think when we're looking back -- and I 22 understand the rationale and the reasoning for this is 23 really situated -- or it follows the eruption event 24 that we recently had, but that's a very unique 25 situation. That is not something that happens often. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 21 1 MR. CAMPBELL: Hopefully, not. 2 MR. BRILHANTE: Yes, hopefully not. 3 But I think if we change the rules to 4 accommodate for that, again, are we just going to say, 5 okay, "extraordinary demands due to a disaster"? Is 6 that only for lava disasters or, like I said 7 previously, where do we draw the line? 8 So, my opinion would be that when a department 9 head or deputy/executive gives the oath of office and 10 accepts the responsibilities of that job, the 11 assumption is that it's a 24/7 job and the public 12 appreciates it. There's a lot of demands, and a lot of 13 the deputies and directors do a great job. Department 14 heads do a great job. But for that, we're very 15 appreciative of that, but I think it goes with the 16 territory -- in my opinion. 17 CHR. ONO: Okay. Thank you. 18 MR. BRILHANTE: But, again, I'm not the final 19 determining -- I don't make the final determination 20 here. It's up to each of you to -- 21 MR. FRATINARDO: So may I ask a question of 22 you, Bill? The middle manager, say an assistant chief 23 for the police department, during extraordinary events 24 like a declared disaster, that person is collecting 25 overtime? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 22 1 MR. BRILHANTE: Well, it depends. If there's 2 duties and responsibilities that -- 3 MR. FRATINARDO: So, what if that overtime got 4 to the point where it caused an inversion to one of the 5 department heads? 6 MR. CAMPBELL: It would be short term. 7 MR. BRILHANTE: And that's where, oftentimes, 8 we do see inversion. There's no strict law, there's no 9 strict regulation, that there can't be inversion. And 10 we're talking about here the language itself is 11 "extraordinary demand." And you described a situation 12 that's extraordinary. I don't think it's the norm. 13 Last year we set the salary schedule for 14 department heads and deputies to insure that as a base 15 salary, we don't have the inversion issue, but I don't 16 think we can ever plan for every situation, every 17 circumstance, where there may be a potential for 18 inversion. 19 So, going forward, I think we have a great 20 salary structure right now. The discussion about 21 overtime I think is just something that maybe shouldn't 22 really be on the table, in my opinion. 23 CHR. ONO: Let me comment on that, because I've 24 been both. I've been both an appointed and at the 25 lower level of the EM. And when I was a department ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 23 1 head, I used to tell the EM guys, "I wish I were an 2 EM." And I did get my wish after a while. I became an 3 EM, and then I went back to an appointed official. 4 But, yeah, when I was appointed, we just 5 take -- you know, report in whenever you have to, even 6 emergency meetings, as part of the job. You take it 7 with that knowledge that you are the head of the 8 department and so is your deputy. And I'll tell you 9 what. It's fun working in Civil Defense because it's 10 really freelance -- and I always comment that -- hey, I 11 really enjoyed going up there because you have a team 12 of people working collaboratively, very 13 collaboratively, helping each other out. Even as far 14 as the working staff working out in the field, 15 responding to calls from the public, you almost have a 16 different employee come out of them. I mean, these are 17 people that are usually doing maintenance work out 18 there and accused of too many people standing around 19 watching one people working, but there's a different 20 person that comes out during an emergency. So, it is a 21 lot of fun. And they feed you good, too. 22 So, with that, I totally agree with Bill. 23 Any other comment, Tom? 24 MR. FRATINARDO: No. 25 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah, I have one more thing on ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 24 1 that. What you've said, Bill, is excellent. I totally 2 agree with everything you said on that. 3 The other thing we might keep in mind is that 4 we use, as part of our mandate on the salaries as 5 comparison to like salaries of like jobs in the public 6 sector, but also in the private sector. And I think 7 the optics would be a disaster if we went through and 8 made some kind of special OT because if you look at 9 disastrous times, those poor people that are running 10 businesses, et cetera, out there 20 hours a day is 11 nothing. And they don't get any overtime -- they're 12 just trying to survive. So, I think the optics would be 13 horrendous for us. 14 CHR. ONO: I think we can file this item. 15 MR. HARANO: Chairman Ono? 16 CHR. ONO: Yes. Go ahead, Nelson. I'm sorry. 17 MR. HARANO: I agree with Mr. Brilhante and 18 his comments and views on this specific subject. And I 19 think, me, personally, we should look at it with 20 objective guidelines instead of subjective because how 21 are we going to define what's extraordinary, yeah? So 22 like Mr. Brilhante had said, we will be going down the 23 slippery slope if we choose to -- where are we going to 24 set that bar versus if we look at it objectively? 25 CHR. ONO: Thank you, Nelson. The discussion ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 25 1 is always good. 2 Anybody else? Any comment on this? 3 If not, we'll just file this and it will no 4 longer be on the agenda. Okay? 5 Thank you very much. 6 Okay. Now we go back to that other 7 discussion about the compensation plan, which includes 8 the presentation of the draft plan that the Chair 9 prepared. And that's also tied in with a letter from 10 the Police Commission Chair Peter Hendricks. 11 Basically, his communication asked that the chief of 12 Police get 10 percent more than the next -highest-paid 13 salary person and that the deputy get 5 percent. 14 Did you want to add anything, Mr. Fire 15 Commission Chair? 16 MR. BECKER: Want me jump up there now? 17 CHR. ONO: Yeah. I see you sitting here, so -- 18 MR. BECKER: Okay. Good morning, everyone. 19 I saw our position on the agenda and thought I got to 20 get downtown here and at least say something. So, I 21 just had a brief couple of comments and then if we have 22 any questions from anybody, I'll take those. 23 The Commission didn't take a position on a 24 proposed pay raise for the chief and the deputy chief. 25 I think that's because we weren't real clear exactly on ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 26 1 the process or the thought process of how you came to 2 those particular figures for those positions. 3 And, as a commission, we've stated previously 4 that we urge a logical, transparent, timely process for 5 determining the pay increases with the annual reviews 6 that take into consideration subordinate pay and 7 neighbor island pay structures. I think, 8 unfortunately, the negotiation process at the state 9 level that directly affects Hawaii County and affects 10 the executive pay is not transparent and doesn't seem 11 based on the CPI or some other economic indicator. It 12 seems, frankly, a little random, which makes your task 13 a little more difficult. 14 If I may just comment on the earlier question 15 about the overtime, having worked in the federal 16 government for most of my career, when you get to these 17 senior levels or in the senior executive service, there 18 is no overtime. You sign on as part of the job. 19 However, there are sometimes performance awards -- 20 monetary performance awards -- that can be given for 21 extraordinary service and that type of thing. So 22 that's how that is, kind of, done. 23 Very often in the federal work force, exactly 24 as you said, people who are in subordinate positions 25 that can get overtime and are in a position to get ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 27 1 overtime very often make more than the boss, but they 2 did put in those hours to make that much more money 3 than the boss. 4 So questions for me? 5 CHR. ONO: Any questions? 6 And your name, again, was? 7 MR. BECKER: Robert Becker. 8 CHR. ONO: Robert Becker. That's a good name. 9 MR. BECKER: And I time out from the 10 commission as the chair at the end of this year, 11 so January -- 12 CHR. ONO: You're a short -timer. 13 MR. BECKER: I am. 14 MR. FRATINARDO: Have they decided? Have you 15 had your meeting? 16 MR. BECKER: We vote in a new chair and 17 vice -chair next month, so in December. 18 CHR. ONO: I think it's going to be a while 19 before any decision is made on salary forthcoming. 20 George? 21 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, Robert, when you talked 22 to us before, you gave us quite a bit of detail about 23 how your commission is structured and the information 24 about the chief and the deputy chief, battalion chiefs. 25 Do you actually use, as you said there, some ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 28 1 kind of formal evaluation process for the chief that we 2 could obtain at some point as part of the information 3 that we get? 4 MR. BECKER: We do have a formal process for 5 the chief. We have actually six performance elements 6 for the chief and we try to make those as objective as 7 possible. In those, we have indicators under each one 8 of those performance elements for what constitutes 9 outstanding performance. 10 We then -- and, actually, we're in the 11 process right now of evaluating the chief for this 12 calendar year. And what we do is we go out to each and 13 every one of our commissioners, and they provide a 14 narrative paragraph, if they'd like, for each one of 15 those performance elements and a grade from 5, being 16 outstanding, down to 1, being unacceptable. And then, 17 we take those scores and average them up for each one 18 of the performance elements, then we average it overall 19 to give a score for the chief. We take each one of 20 their narrative comments and we kind of work and mold 21 them together into something that's coherent as a 22 statement from the commission as a whole. We then vote 23 on that performance evaluation. We then, in December, 24 present that to the chief and discuss it with the 25 chief. It's then provided to the mayor and the chair ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 29 1 of the council and the managing director. So, that's 2 our process. 3 We can certainly give you the elements and 4 how we grade them. As far as the actual performance 5 evaluation themselves, that's an HR matter, unless the 6 chief is all right with letting that be released. We 7 cannot release that. 8 Is that correct? 9 MR. BRILHANTE: That's correct. The chief 10 holds the privilege as to the contents of the 11 evaluation. 12 MR. BECKER: Yeah, when we have talked with 13 the chief in the past and when we do our annual report 14 to the council, we have asked the chief if it's all 15 right to use the identifier for what his performance 16 evaluation is, being excellent, outstanding, you know, 17 satisfactory, like that. He's been okay with that. 18 But we do not include any other information with that. 19 And we do, again, clear that with -- 20 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, it seems like if we knew 21 the process and you could give us whatever that 22 identifier is, your final score, or outstanding, 23 excellent, whatever it is, that would be very helpful 24 to us. 25 CHR. ONO: Any other questions of Mr. -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 30 1 MR. BRILHANTE: May I comment on that 2 proposal -- 3 CHR. ONO: Sure. 4 MR. BRILHANTE: -- again? 5 CHR. ONO: I feel like telling you "no" for 6 once. No, go ahead. 7 MR. BRILHANTE: You know, I think we have to 8 be very mindful and very careful about establishing a 9 merit -based Salary Commission, and that's something 10 that I would strongly be in opposition to if that's how 11 we wanted to do going forward. Again, we had 12 discussion about subjective and objective criteria for 13 establishing salaries, and if we start doing a 14 merit -based structure for determining salaries, again, 15 we have all these concerns regarding ambiguity as to 16 what's the determining factors that come into play as 17 to whether or not somebody is doing a good job. Does 18 it become just a likability factor - "Oh, this 19 Commission really likes this department head, so he or 20 she is going to get outstanding marks." 21 And I think when we're sitting down and we're 22 having a discussion -- and we'll get to it later on in 23 the meeting -- if we're setting clear criteria as to 24 what we're going to use to determine an individual's 25 salary, I would say I would be very surprised if any ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 31 1 commission chairperson came in, from either the Fire 2 Commission or the Police Commission or the Merit 3 Appeals Board or Liquor Commission or any of the other 4 departments under commission and said, "Oh, my chief/my 5 department head is doing a terrible job." And I think 6 if we're going to go through that whole process, I 7 could almost assure you with nearly 100 percent 8 certainty that everybody is going to come in and say 9 their person is the greatest thing since sliced bread, 10 because if that individual wasn't performing at that 11 level or meeting their expectations, then I don't think 12 the commission would be too tolerant of allowing that 13 individual to go forward. So, there's a built-in entire 14 process for that through the commission, and I think we 15 have to be somewhat mindful and clearly separate the 16 two when we move forward. 17 CHR. ONO: Thank you. 18 MR. BRILHANTE: That's just my two cents. 19 MR. BECKER: If I may. The commission, we 20 have the ability to terminate the chief, we have a 21 responsibility to hire a new chief -- but we don't 22 supervise the chief. The chief is supervised by the 23 mayor. So it's, kind of, a bifurcated issue here. 24 Makes it a little bit different that way. 25 But we did feel that we needed to have a ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 32 1 performance evaluation system in place that we thought 2 made sense, was fair to the chief, was fair to 3 everybody involved. And we also have a position 4 description for him, so it's very clear what we expect 5 out of him. And I think that in the last few years, we 6 really kind of smoothed that process out so that it's 7 taken a lot of the subjective issues out of it, so it's 8 a lot more objective. 9 CHR. ONO: Dr. Dow, it seems like you want to 10 say something. 11 MR. DOW: Yes. 12 Is the fire commission willing to make a 13 specific recommendation for salary for their chief? 14 MR. BECKER: I don't think we are at this 15 time. I mean, we want, I think, to see what process 16 you're proposing to use, whether that is an annual 17 review based on what the employees that are -- 18 contracts negotiated at the state level make or exactly 19 what your process is. Whether that is -- you know, 20 like the police commission said 10 percent and 5 21 percent. We really would want to hear what your 22 proposal is before we would propose because I don't 23 think we have the economic data to really do that on 24 our commission. 25 CHR. ONO: Florence? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 33 1 MS. IKEDA: Merit -based to me is overstepping 2 our boundary. I mean, I used to work in the school 3 system, and when they were trying to create this merit 4 system as to how to pay the teachers, it is the most 5 difficult thing to do because it's so subjective. 6 I don't think that the Salary Commission -- 7 that as a Salary Commission we should get involved with 8 this merit thing. We should just set other parameters 9 and work with those parameters. 10 As I said, merit is very, very difficult and 11 everybody sees it differently. 12 CHR. ONO: Well, I see it's an opportune time, 13 because the draft plan that was requested which we 14 drafted up is included as one of the handouts today, 15 and I think it serves as a good basis for discussion on 16 how the Commission wants to proceed forward. 17 So, the draft plan is included in your 18 handouts (SEE ATT. A). It's this one-page thing. It's 19 called "Draft Plan Review and Discussion Proposed Salary 20 Adjustments Effective July lst, 2019." And if you 21 recall, I volunteered to draft out this plan, giving 22 timeframes and all those kind of things. 23 So, Mr. Becker, you are welcome to go back to 24 your seat. You don't have to sit there all day long. 25 MR. BECKER: Thank you. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 34 1 MR. HIGGINS: Where is that handout? I'm 2 sorry. 3 MS. YAMADA: Draft plan. 4 CHR. ONO: Yeah, it looks like this. Okay? 5 Item 6.2.B. 6 MR. HIGGINS: Thank you. 7 CHR. ONO: You okay now, Jim? 8 MR. HIGGINS: Yep. 9 CHR. ONO: Anyway, why don't we do this -- why 10 don't we take a break so that if you need to take a 11 break, take a break now and, at the same time, use this 12 time to review this before we reconvene. 13 Okay, we're on break. 14 (Recess ensued from 10:15 a.m. to 10:24 a.m.) 15 CHR. ONO: Meeting back in session. 16 I hope you've had time to take a look at 17 this. I thought it would serve as a good place to 18 begin the discussion on how this Commission wants to 19 proceed with the next set of pay adjustments, even if 20 they aren't going -- it could be a pay plus, a pay 21 minus, or it could be no change at all. Okay? But I 22 know that within the next six months to a year, this 23 Commission has to look at what is going on with the 24 salary scales that are in existence right now. 25 So, anyway, let me go through this draft ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 35 1 1 plan. First of all, the objective is at the top, 2 secure best available information for considering and 3 deciding on the next possible future salary adjustments 4 which could become effective on July lst. And, again, 5 the proposed plan is to invite representatives from 6 these different departments and use input and available 7 information to review the proposal prepared by the 8 Department of Human Resources. 9 As you recall, there was a suggested salary 10 range that was furnished to this Commission by the 11 Department of Human Resources. It was either at the 12 last meeting or the meeting before. Hopefully, the 13 adoption of an action plan can be completed by a 14 certain date, which is April 30th on this proposed 15 schedule here -- and that would allow time for it to be 16 included or considered in the budget beginning July lst 17 of 2019. Okay? 18 So presentations would include, from each 19 major department, you know, talk about the primary 20 duties of the appointee, the size of the staff, 21 operating budget and funding, major challenges, 22 overtime requirements, and prerequisite requirements 23 for these positions, meaning that some of these 24 positions require a licensure or, in the case of 25 attorneys, they have to be Bar qualified. Also to ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 36 1 include salary considerations, recommendations as 2 factors that the Salary Commission should consider, any 3 other recommendations, merits. 4 Anyway, it provides a forum for discussion 5 with each of the departments, or the people that 6 supervise the departments, to get their input. So our 7 thinking was that the Commission could understand how 8 the position is to perform on an actual basis. 9 And at the bottom is the schedule that was 10 proposed. It kind of crams everything in, but if the 11 objective is to get something in place, either one way 12 or the other by April 30th, every month there's 13 appearance by certain members of the County 14 administrations to do this presentation. 15 So, with that, I just open it up for 16 discussion. 17 And, George, you should have a huge say on 18 this because you're either going to trash this today or 19 at the next meeting, but whatever you decide to do is 20 certainly fine. There's no right of ownership on this 21 at all. I'm not like that. 22 MR. CAMPBELL: Okay. Well, I personally like 23 what you proposed. I think what you did here is a 24 great way to approach what we have to do. I think that 25 the addition of the requirements that were voted in ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 37 1 earlier this month on how we proceed somehow has to be 2 built into this, our new, quote, rules. And I guess 3 that would have to be displayed in more detail in the 4 March/April timeline in some way because we can't get 5 to a decision until we've done a couple months' worth of 6 all the public requirements, both in the paper and at 7 the public meetings. So, with that being said, I like 8 the approach that you have put down. It's not far from 9 what I had written down previously anyhow. 10 We just need to particularly work with you, 11 Amy, to get the right words to put in how we need to 12 proceed, whether we make any decisions formally or not, 13 with the public requirements now of the new rules that 14 are in place at this point. 15 CHR. ONO: Would you like to defer on this, 16 then, as incoming chair, and hold it up for next 17 meeting? 18 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, I don't know that we'd 19 make the schedule if we do that. 20 CHR. ONO: Well, the schedule is just on paper 21 here and it can be changed. This Commission is really 22 not under any schedule. Of course, it would be 23 opportune to get something in so that it can appear in 24 the budget, but -- 25 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, let me ask the question. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 18 MR. DOW: The budget? 19 CHR. ONO: -- it into the budget process so 20 it's not a mysterious thing. 21 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, I presumed that that's 22 what you were looking at, the annual budget. So, if we 23 decided to do something by July, then it could fit into 24 the budget -making process. 25 MR. FRATINARDO: And, Mr. Ono, when do they ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 38 1 At this point, Amy and Bill, with the new requirements 2 that are laid upon us rule -wise now, if we adopted 3 everything that our current chair has proposed, what 4 would it take, then, to add what we would need to do in 5 the March/April timeframe to complete all those new 6 requirements that the voters have asked us to use at 7 this point? 8 CHR. ONO: Any comment by the rest of the 9 Commissioners for George? 10 MR. DOW: I have a question. 11 CHR. ONO: Dr. Dow. 12 MR. DOW: Are we trying to meet a timeline 13 regarding the annual budget or the timeline for 14 starting a new fiscal year? 15 CHR. ONO: I'll just leave that for you folks. 16 When I drafted it, that was the intent, to try and 17 get -- 18 MR. DOW: The budget? 19 CHR. ONO: -- it into the budget process so 20 it's not a mysterious thing. 21 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, I presumed that that's 22 what you were looking at, the annual budget. So, if we 23 decided to do something by July, then it could fit into 24 the budget -making process. 25 MR. FRATINARDO: And, Mr. Ono, when do they ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 39 1 normally start -- Deanna, or the Finance Department -- 2 when do they normally start consulting with their 3 divisions as far as formulating a new budget? Is it 4 something that's ongoing all the time, it's fluid, or 5 is there a specific month that recommendations have to 6 be in for their divisions? 7 MR. BRILHANTE: Each department head was 8 required to submit a proposed budget, departmental 9 budget, back in October. And then we've been working 10 with Finance to meet with each of the departments 11 individually going forward. And I think the mayor's 12 final proposed budget is sometime in March it gets 13 submitted to council? 14 MS. SELF: I think so. 15 MR. BRILHANTE: And then council can do their 16 amendments. And they have until prior to July lst or 17 June 30th. 18 CHR. ONO: You know what might make this thing 19 more workable is moving the effective date of any pay 20 adjustment to January of the following year, so it 21 would be January 2020. It doesn't preclude the 22 committee from making adjustments and doing 23 retroactivity either, but that would give you the time 24 to -- it would make it more comfortable because you 25 only meet once a month. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 16 But like we did the last time, there's no 17 requirement that we have to get any proposed raises in 18 prior to the onset of the new budget, July lst. You 19 know, we initiated raises -- the last raises we 20 initiated were back in January the previous year, then 21 three months later, in March, we adjusted another set 22 of department head raises. 23 So, you do have some fluidity here. You have 24 some discretion. And I think if you start setting 25 these hard deadlines -- the last thing you want to do ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 40 1 MR. BRILHANTE: And the procedures aren't set 2 in stone. You do have some fluidity here. The 3 requirement under the new charter amendment is that if 4 you are going to approve or if you are going to propose 5 salary adjustments, increases for department heads, 6 deputies, elected officials -- then there's a 30 -day 7 publication requirement that, 30 days prior to any 8 formal action, you know, you have to publish the notice 9 in the newspaper, then afford at least one community 10 meeting, public meeting, and then you can go forward 11 from there. 12 MS. SELF: We have to have two public 13 hearings, one in East Hawaii and one -- 14 MR. BRILHANTE: One for each side of the 15 island. 16 But like we did the last time, there's no 17 requirement that we have to get any proposed raises in 18 prior to the onset of the new budget, July lst. You 19 know, we initiated raises -- the last raises we 20 initiated were back in January the previous year, then 21 three months later, in March, we adjusted another set 22 of department head raises. 23 So, you do have some fluidity here. You have 24 some discretion. And I think if you start setting 25 these hard deadlines -- the last thing you want to do ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 41 1 is paint yourself into a corner. So, I think if you 2 leave it fluid and open, then it gives you guys kind of 3 more flexibility. 4 MR. FRATINARDO: Do the ladies from Finance 5 have anything to say about it? 6 MR. BRILHANTE: Well, these are my HR -- 7 MR. FRATINARDO: These are your HR, but they 8 deal with the pay part? 9 MR. BRILHANTE: No, not this division. These 10 are our classification and -- 11 MR. FRATINARDO: Oh, okay. 12 MR. BRILHANTE: -- the salary people. 13 MR. FRATINARDO: Okay. 14 MR. BRILHANTE: So, we wanted to put that on 15 the table. It's not set in stone. 16 CHR. ONO: No, it isn't. So you'll have a lot 17 of flexibility. 18 MR. FRATINARDO: And there's opportunity for 19 us to have -- we've had that where we have more than 20 one meeting in a month. 21 MS. SELF: Yeah, you can do that. 22 MR. FRATINARDO: So, if it comes to crunch 23 time, then we -- 24 MS. SELF: If I may, there's one suggestion 25 on this document. Under proposed schedule, unlike the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 42 1 prosecuting attorney, the corporation counsel is 2 appointed by the mayor, so you have Corp. Counsel on 3 January 2019, but it actually should be part of the 4 March 2019 where you have the mayor's office. 5 I assume you're going to be asking for the 6 mayor or somebody from the mayor's office -- 7 CHR. ONO: Uh-huh. 8 MS. SELF: -- for information about these 9 positions? 10 CHR. ONO: These are the ones that they 11 supervise, right? 12 MS. SELF: Right. So I would add Corp. 13 Counsel down there, yeah. 14 MR. HARANO: Chairman Ono, I have a comment. 15 CHR. ONO: Yes, Nelson. 16 MR. HARANO: And this is following up on 17 Mr. Brilhante's comment about the chairs of the various 18 commissions coming forth and saying with pretty much 99 19 percent confidence that everyone who will be meeting 20 their goals or objectives or they're doing a great job. 21 And, kind of, in line with the public hearings both on 22 the east side and the west side, can the public have 23 some kind of input on these positions as well? I mean, 24 because we're looking at it from one side of the coin 25 versus the public's view, too. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 43 1 MR. BRILHANTE: Sure. 2 CHR. ONO: I think that's what the 3 public hearings are for, primary purpose, to get public 4 input on the proposal. 5 MR. HARANO: Yeah. 6 MR. BRILHANTE: And second to that -- you 7 raised a great issue. And that's what I want to say. 8 Oftentimes, it gets overlooked and I think it was 9 overlooked in the proposed charter amendment. These 10 meetings are held in public. Every time this 11 Commission meets, it's open to the public. The agenda 12 is published. People see the agenda with sufficient 13 enough time prior to the meeting so that if they feel 14 strongly enough about an issue, they can come and 15 testify for or against. And I will remind everybody 16 here that the last time we were having a discussion 17 regarding proposed raises, nobody came and opposed it. 18 So, we're not doing anything behind closed doors. It's 19 a open, public process and it's always been that way. 20 CHR. ONO: Anything else? Anybody? 21 George, you look like you... 22 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, what I would like to do 23 is propose a motion that we accept your draft plan as a 24 way to move forward with the modification that the 25 salaries will become effective January 1 of 2020 and ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 44 1 that we leave the schedule open just to list all of 2 those fire, liquor, police, but no date on it at this 3 point, to be determined at future meetings as the 4 committee gets up to speed on what it is we want to do. 5 CHR. ONO: Sounds like a very reasonable 6 motion to me. 7 Any second? 8 MR. HARANO: I second the motion. 9 CHR. ONO: Okay. It was moved by George and 10 seconded by Nelson that this proposal be adopted with 11 the recommended changes as cited by George. 12 Any discussion on that? 13 MR. FRATINARDO: Perhaps we just add that for 14 the public's comment also in the proposed plan, invite 15 administration, County Council, and commissions, and the 16 public to comment. 17 CHR. ONO: I think they are always welcome to -- 18 MR. CAMPBELL: That's a requirement. 19 MR. FRATINARDO: Well, I mean, when Bill was 20 saying people never opposed, well, I had people come up 21 to me, like you guys had people come up to you, and 22 say, "Well, if the meetings were after work at 4:30 or 23 5:00, I would have come by, but I couldn't make it 24 because I have to work." 25 CHR. ONO: But what's new here is you ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 45 1 have two designated public hearings, each on the east 2 and the west side. So, those are different from these 3 kind of meetings -- 4 MR. FRATINARDO: Sure. 5 CHR. ONO: -- in that their singular purpose, 6 then, would be to discuss the proposed salary changes. 7 MR. FRATINARDO: Gotcha. 8 CHR. ONO: So that would be a great forum 9 to get public input also, as Nelson had mentioned. 10 MR. FRATINARDO: It's clarifying. And thank 11 you. 12 MR. HARANO: And I say that because, you 13 know, the comments that I receive from -- whether it's 14 people that I know -- it's pretty much people that I do 15 know. I don't think there's been a person that I don't 16 know have made a comment. But it's always, "Well, how 17 come you guys did this?" "Well, how come you gave them 18 that amount?" You know? But now it's not only the 19 Commission, but the County or the government now 20 placing it in their court to come forth. And if they 21 don't, well, you know -- 22 CHR. ONO: You had your chance. 23 MR. HARANO: -- they have no basis for 24 complaining. And I think that's an opportune time for 25 them to speak on these, at least from government as ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 46 1 well as the Commission's point of view. You know, we 2 get to see the other side of the coin. So, that's all. 3 I would like to see that happen. 4 CHR. ONO: Uh-huh. Well, that can happen now - 5 MR. HARANO: Yeah. 6 CHR. ONO: -- with this new Charter amendment. 7 MS. IKEDA: On George's proposal, you said 8 January lst of 2020? Did you put that into your 9 proposal? 10 MR. HIGGINS: Uh-huh. 11 MS. IKEDA: I would rather change that 2020 12 to not a specific date, but according to your fiscal 13 year and what comes up. To me, if you put that date 14 there, it binds us to that date. And if the fiscal is 15 not set, then it wouldn't make any sense to proceed by 16 that date. 17 MR. CAMPBELL: I agree that maybe we should 18 take the 2020 out. I was trying to go to the calendar 19 year rather than the fiscal year, which gives us a year 20 to complete any actions that we might propose. And all 21 it says is we would consider it annually; it doesn't 22 say we would, well, increase, decrease, or leave the 23 same, as it says. 24 MS. IKEDA: Right. That doesn't matter. I 25 just wanted to say that, you know, January lst, 2020 is ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 47 1 what I don't agree with, saying a specific date like 2 that. 3 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. 4 CHR. ONO: Just to enhance the definition of 5 what is being discussed, it would be that that would be 6 a target date not to implement a salary change, but to 7 complete action. The date could be any date thereafter, 8 too. You know, the date that I had intended on this is 9 the date to complete the action by, not the effective 10 date of a salary change, because the Commission decides 11 that. 12 MR. CAMPBELL: Works for me. 13 CHR. ONO: So, it's a matter of what that 14 January lst means. I mean, if you're going 15 to use it as an effective date for any salary 16 changes, I'm not sure that that's what this Commission 17 wants to do, but it would be a target date to complete 18 your evaluation by, which gives you more time to 19 do both public hearings, the notification, and comply 20 with the new charter amendment. 21 MR. FRATINARDO: And it's one and one, 22 correct? So, we'll have a public meeting before we make 23 the decision to effect the raise, correct? 24 CHR. ONO: Should be that way. 25 MS. SELF: No. According to the amendment -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 48 1 so it says, "At least 30 days prior to the approval of 2 any salary adjustment, the Salary Commission shall 3 publish at least once in at least two daily newspapers 4 of general circulation in the county a detailed account 5 of its proposal or proposals, including specific 6 increases or decreases in both actual dollar amounts 7 and percentages, hold at least one public hearing, one 8 in East Hawaii and one in West Hawaii, and submit 9 copies of a detailed report of the Commission's 10 findings and conclusions used to develop its proposal 11 or proposals to the Office of the County Clerk and the 12 Office of the Mayor for public inspection." 13 MR. BRILHANTE: So, the process is you come up 14 with a proposal, you agree this is going to be a 15 proposal going forward, a publication based on that 16 proposal is placed into newspapers, a public hearing is 17 held in regards to that proposal, you hear public 18 testimony for or against, you consider it, you consider 19 the public testimony, and then at the next scheduled 20 meeting, 30 days, you take action, approve, disapprove, 21 or the like. 22 MR. FRATINARDO: And then submit the reports 23 to the County Council? 24 MR. BRILHANTE: No. 25 MR. FRATINARDO: Or before? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 49 1 MS. SELF: Excuse me. I'm looking at not 2 draft 2. Oh, okay, sorry about that. My draft 2, I 3 don't know what happened to it. But, anyway, she had 4 changed it -- so there's drafts of Bill 98. So it 5 looks like the one thing that's different from what I 6 just read is that you hold at least -- yeah, that's the 7 same. 8 MR. CAMPBELL: That's the same. 9 MR. BRILHANTE: It's the same. 10 MS. SELF: What did she change? I know she 11 changed something. 12 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. And -- 13 MS. SELF: Oh, okay. 14 MR. BRILHANTE: The draft was so that you 15 could conduct a in-person public hearing here in Hilo 16 at the council chambers, but through videoconference we 17 have the capability to bring in West Hawai'i's Civic 18 Center; so we can conduct two public hearings at the 19 same time, one in person and one via videoconference. 20 That was the consideration made. 21 MS. SELF: Yes. Everything else is the same. 22 Yeah, that was the only change. 23 MR. HIGGINS: Mr. Chair or Bill or somebody, 24 maybe I'm confused on the procedure and how we 25 integrate it with input from the budget people. So ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 50 1 this looks like a very extensive procedure. We're 2 going to have a lot of discussion, a lot of 3 presentations. A lot of people are going to come 4 before us. And then, where along the line is there some 5 input, that we meet with the budget people and they 6 tell us, "Uh, well, we really can't afford that"? And 7 so what do we do then? We've expired all of this 8 effort. So, when do we actually find out if it's a 9 possibility that there's some money available to do 10 this? 11 MS. SELF: That's what this document is 12 about, that -- 13 CHR. ONO: Add it on. 14 MS. SELF: Yeah. Because, see, he's saying 15 your objective here is to secure the best available 16 information toward considering and deciding on the next 17 possible future salary adjustment. 18 So I think what this document is setting up 19 is the procedure for interviewing the different 20 department heads or whoever is the supervisor for the 21 people you're going to give the salary increases to in 22 accordance to this. 23 And once you gather all this information, 24 then it's up to you -- and talk to the finance 25 director, then it's up to you guys to come up with ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 51 1 proposed salary increases, and then that's when you 2 would notice it in the paper 30 days before the public 3 hearing and you would have your public hearing. 4 MR. CAMPBELL: If there wasn't any money 5 there, we just -- 6 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah, that's my point. My 7 question is when do we find that out? When is the 8 budget for the next fiscal finalized? They submit it 9 starting in October, you said, the departments? 10 MR. CAMPBELL: To the mayor. 11 MR. BRILHANTE: The departments submit it to 12 the administration. Because what happens is the mayor 13 doesn't set the budget -- Council does. 14 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. 15 MR. BRILHANTE: So what happens is there's 16 the preliminary process that the department heads 17 submit their proposed budget to the mayor, the mayor 18 collects everything, meets with his finance people, the 19 finance people say yay, nay, and then I think the first 20 submittal to Council on the draft proposed budget is in 21 March. And then Council -- they hold their own budget 22 hearings, they call each department head in on their 23 own, independently of whatever the discussion was with 24 the mayor, and then they vet each department's proposed 25 budget, and then it goes through that process. And I ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 52 1 want to say it's sometime in June. 2 MS. SELF: Yeah, that sounds right. 3 MR. BRILHANTE: What happened the last time 4 was the budget didn't get the approval by the necessary 5 deadline, so the mayor's proposed budget got 6 automatically approved. 7 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. I'm just saying will we 8 be able to meet that without -- how can the council 9 review a budget if we're not through with our 10 procedure? And how can each department create a budget 11 not knowing what we're going to come up with? 12 MR. BRILHANTE: And I guess I just reflect 13 back to the process, how it was done last year. And as 14 you know, we sat down, we came up with some proposed 15 figures, we asked the Finance Director Deanna Sako to 16 come in, to testify as to whether or not there were 17 funds set aside. 18 And I will tell you this. The 19 administration, the County, they set aside funds for 20 proposed salary increases every year. And the reason 21 for that is because we know, just through the 22 collective bargaining agreements, that each of the 23 various union workers are going to get raises set out, 24 as it's stated in the contract. So, as part of the 25 proposed budget submittals, Ms. Sako testified to us ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 53 1 that they do set aside funds for proposed salary 2 increases. 3 Now, the question is whether or not your 4 proposed salary increase, there's sufficient funds to 5 cover it, that's a unique question, and it would be a 6 specific question that, when we get the figure, then 7 the finance director would be able to answer that at 8 that time, once there's some proposal, whether or not 9 there's something more solid. 10 I think it's a dangerous prospect to go 11 forward and say, "Well, we're going to base raises on 12 how much surplus we have in the budget." You know, the 13 surplus in the budget is one of the many bundles of 14 sticks that you have when you're coming up with what 15 your final proposal is going to be for salary increases 16 or status quo, no increases, or reductions. That is 17 one independent unit that you have to consider going 18 forward. If Ms. Sako comes in and says we're going to 19 be at a six million dollar deficit, you know, well, 20 then I think that should be part of your consideration 21 as to whether or not you are going to give increases or 22 not, or whether you're going to give salary reductions. 23 But for us to sit here and say, "Oh, okay, we 24 need a specific date for that to happen," it doesn't 25 work that way. I think once we get serious with this, ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 14 Page 54 1 we have some figures in mind, we have some plan in 2 place, then I would say it's imperative that we bring 3 the finance director in, get information from her 4 regarding what is out there? What's available? What 5 is not available? And then, that should be part of your 6 consideration. 18 7 MR. HIGGINS: Bill, that is my question. 8 I've tried to express myself better. When is that date 9 in comparison to all this work and hearings and 10 everything else? When is she going to come in and say, 11 "Well, we have a six million dollar deficit"? 12 MR. CAMPBELL: Shortfall. Well, that's the 13 whole -- budget 14 MR. BRILHANTE: And that's the question you 15 have to ask the finance director when she comes in. 16 MR. HIGGINS: My question is when? 17 MR. BRILHANTE: By March. She'll know by 18 March. 19 MR. HIGGINS: Thanks for the answer. 20 MR. BRILHANTE: By March. 21 MR. CAMPBELL: All we'll know is that, as the 22 budget is set, they provide some estimate for -- if I 23 heard you right, Bill, that they will provide you 24 some -- they have done an estimate of what they might 25 need for proposed salaries based on what they think ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 23 Just to refresh everybody's memory here, I 24 was tasked by the Chair to come up with a 25 recommendation as to proposed salary adjustments for ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 55 1 might be the raises from collective bargaining, and 2 they always put a little extra in. And we'll know in 3 March -- 4 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. Terrific. 5 MR. CAMPBELL: -- if there's some funds there 6 or not. And if it goes down the tube, well, then, 7 that's that. 8 MR. FRATINARDO: Bill, would it be too much 9 for me to ask that one of your staff prepare a 10 document, from 1 percent to 10 percent, what a proposed 11 pay scale might look like? Is that a possibility? On 12 the department heads. 13 MR. BRILHANTE: You know, I prepared a 14 document (SEE ATT. B). 15 MR. FRATINARDO: You have? 16 MR. CAMPBELL: It's what he gave to us last 17 meeting. 18 MR. BRILHANTE: Item 6.C., Charlie. Again, 19 just to clarify what this document refers to -- Chair, 20 do you mind if I address this now? 21 CHR. ONO: No, no. It's within the same item. 22 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. 23 Just to refresh everybody's memory here, I 24 was tasked by the Chair to come up with a 25 recommendation as to proposed salary adjustments for ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 56 1 next year, and I clearly stated that I'm not going to 2 make a recommendation as to whether or not you should 3 give pay increases, but what I will do, what I did do, 4 is I took what the various collective bargaining units 5 would be getting in their CBAs through the union, and 6 my staff went and we factored it out, and we came up 7 with proposed salary adjustments that would be exactly 8 the same salary adjustments that the lower -level admin. 9 managers will be getting pursuant to the collective 10 bargaining agreement. And that's what we have 11 incorporated in this document here is the first two 12 columns are the current department head salary and the 13 current deputy salary. That's the first two columns. 14 The highlighted column or the kind of 15 shadowed gray columns are what the current highest-paid 16 subordinates are currently making. And then, we have to 17 be mindful if they're going to be getting raises 18 pursuant to the collective bargaining agreements. 19 And so, the final two columns is what equal 20 raises for department heads and deputies would look 21 like, you know, equal to their collective bargaining 22 counterparts. So, this is with their raises. This is 23 as of the end of this next fiscal year. That's their 24 adjustment. 25 MS. IKEDA: Bill, does the County allow retro -1 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 57 1 active pay? 2 MR. BRILHANTE: It does. And for unions, for 3 the CBA, we often have to do that because more often 4 than not, when we get into a situation with one of the 5 unions and we're unable to reach an agreement through 6 negotiation, it goes through the arbitration process, 7 and that process never gets done prior to the 8 conclusion or expiration of the current collective 9 bargaining agreement. 10 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, I should point out that 11 this thing that Bill just talked about was already 12 published in the paper. Even though it was nothing 13 official to us and we took no action related to it, it 14 was in the paper. 15 CHR. ONO: Okay, we have a motion to 16 accept this with some changes. One of the changes would 17 be the adoption action to be completed by, instead of 18 April 30th, 2019, would be January lst, 2020. And I 19 would further suggest a discussion with the Finance 20 Department be added on to this. 21 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, I agree. 22 MR. HIGGINS: There you go. 23 CHR. ONO: Are there any other changes 24 suggested? If not -- 25 MR. HIGGINS: Excuse me. Are you going to ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 58 1 put a date on that Finance Committee or -- 2 CHR. ONO: Yeah, why don't we put by March? 3 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah, because that's what this 4 whole thing sort of ends on the proposed schedule is in 5 March, so we've got to mention that with the date. 6 MR. FRATINARDO: Item No. 1 under "Proposed 7 Plan," "Budget," "Finance Department." 8 CHR. ONO: Okay. Make it -- 9 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. 10 CHR. ONO: Where do you want to put it? 11 MR. FRATINARDO: The very first item, 12 sentence No. 1, "Invite Finance Department." 13 CHR. ONO: Oh, so No. 1 would become No. 2, 14 or is it all part of the same one? 15 MR. FRATINARDO: All part of the same. 16 CHR. ONO: Okay. Should be added on, then, 17 right? 18 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes, please. 19 CHR. ONO: Finance in March, right? 20 MS. SELF: So we're amending his amendment? 21 CHR. ONO: What's that? 22 MS. SELF: Are you amending his amendment? 23 I'm getting confused here. 24 CHR. ONO: No, we're just changing the changes 25 in. We decided to go with, instead of April 30th, ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 16 time. 17 CHR. ONO: Then we're going to move Corp. 18 Counsel down to under March 20 -- well, this schedule 19 is going to change completely, so the dates don't 20 matter. We have enough flexibility within this. 21 Okay. Any other discussion? 22 If not, all those in favor say "Aye." 23 (All members responded affirmatively.) 24 CHR. ONO: Any opposed? 25 Okay, the motion is carried. You have a ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 59 1 January 1st, 2020, and then also adding in that 2 consulting with the Finance Department in March of 3 2019. 4 Right? 5 MR. FRATINARDO: Uh-huh. 6 CHR. ONO: Or later? Just leave it like that. 7 You have enough flexibility in here. 8 MR. FRATINARDO: Well, Bill said that by 9 March, they should have data for us, so -- 10 MR. CAMPBELL: Something. 11 MR. BRILHANTE: So, we're going to set a 12 meeting probably the latter part of March? That seems 13 reasonable. 14 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. 15 MR. BRILHANTE: Should have sufficient enough 16 time. 17 CHR. ONO: Then we're going to move Corp. 18 Counsel down to under March 20 -- well, this schedule 19 is going to change completely, so the dates don't 20 matter. We have enough flexibility within this. 21 Okay. Any other discussion? 22 If not, all those in favor say "Aye." 23 (All members responded affirmatively.) 24 CHR. ONO: Any opposed? 25 Okay, the motion is carried. You have a ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 14 MR. HIGGINS: Go, Bill. Page 60 1 plan. 16 item No. B.ii. 2 Okay. The last thing on the agenda is the 3 rules of the Salary Commission. And that would be item 4 3, "Update concerning the Rules of the Salary 5 Commission by Deputy Corporation Counsel Amy Self (may 6 include revisions to the Rules.) (At its October 19, 7 2018 meeting, the Commissioners agreed to add Items ii, 8 iii, iv on its next agenda.)" FRATINARDO: Second. 9 MR. BRILHANTE: Chair, may I interrupt? I'm 10 sorry. 11 CHR. ONO: Sure. 12 MR. BRILHANTE: You can kick me out after the 13 meeting. 14 MR. HIGGINS: Go, Bill. 15 MR. BRILHANTE: We have to close the file on 16 item No. B.ii. 17 MS. IKEDA: The letter. 18 MR. BRILHANTE: From the Police Commission 19 Chair. 20 CHR. ONO: Thank you. So, the letter will go 21 In file. So let's have a motion to accept and file it. 22 MS. IKEDA: So moved. 23 CHR. ONO: Okay, Florence moved. 24 Second? 25 MR. FRATINARDO: Second. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 61 1 CHR. ONO: Tom second. Okay. 2 Moved and seconded by Florence and Tom 3 respectively. 4 All those in favor say "Aye." 5 (All members responded affirmatively.) 6 CHR. ONO: Any opposed? 7 Motion is carried. That item is filed. 8 Okay, going to item 3. These are the 9 revisions to the Salary Commission rules. And I think, 10 Amy, you're going to take the lead on this, aren't you? 11 Or are you? 12 MS. SELF: No. I'm waiting for you guys to 13 come up with your changes, what -- 14 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah, so just let me 15 interject. 16 So, what we did was, at the last meeting, the 17 chair requested -- or one of the members requested -- I 18 don't specifically remember -- if we could get copies 19 from other jurisdictions because all other 20 jurisdictions have salary commissions and the like. So 21 what we did was, in that period of time, we went and we 22 got a copy of the City and County of Honolulu's rules 23 for their Salary Commission, we got a copy of the 24 County of Kaua'i's rules of practice and procedures for 25 their Salary Commission, and we got a copy of Maui's ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 62 1 rules for their Salary Commission. 2 And so, I think -- my understanding, what I 3 kind of recall that the process was going to be, was 4 that we were going to take a look at these rules from 5 other jurisdictions, we were going to see what we like, 6 what we don't like, maybe have some discussion 7 regarding the likes that we can maybe borrow and 8 incorporate into our rules, and adjust our rules 9 accordingly. But I think before we can start doing 10 that, there has to be a motion and a directive by the 11 Commission for whoever it will be, corporation 12 counsel -- wink, wink -- to go ahead and start the 13 process. But that's where we're at now. 14 So, if you look at your binder, you have 15 copies of the rules from the three other jurisdictions. 16 CHR. ONO: Okay. I think that's a good 17 direction to go, in other words, to kind of prepare a 18 draft revised rules and then have the Commission take a 19 look at it and review and comment for any additional 20 adjustments. 21 Does that make sense? 22 MR. FRATINARDO: Makes sense. 23 MR. HIGGINS: Uh-huh. 24 MR. BRILHANTE: May I make a recommendation? 25 CHR. ONO: Sure. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 63 1 MR. BRILHANTE: What I would recommend? 2 CHR. ONO: We'll let you make a motion. 3 MR. BRILHANTE: No, no, no, I can't do that. 4 What I would recommend, from now until our 5 next meeting, since you all have copies of the rules, 6 you know, go through our rules, go through each of the 7 jurisdiction rules, and maybe if each one of you comes 8 back with one area or two areas of discussion where you 9 would like to see, to me that would be a good starting 10 point for us going forward. 11 CHR. ONO: Some of the commissioners did 12 submit revisions, and I think they ended up with Glynis, 13 if I'm not mistaken. 14 MS. SELF: Yeah, they did. 15 CHR. ONO: If not all. Okay. Maybe more 16 than some did that. 17 Okay, may I have such a motion to have -- 18 what is it -- to have the Corp. Counsel take the lead? 19 Is that what we're motioning? 20 MS. SELF: I don't think so. 21 CHR. ONO: That's what your compadre said. 22 MR. HIGGINS: All right, Amy. 23 MR. BRILHANTE: I handle HR stuff. Amy 24 outlines your rules. 25 MS. SELF: So, you guys, I don't understand ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 64 1 what you want me to lead you on because you don't, I 2 think -- 3 CHR. ONO: Well, you know, this is the way I 4 look at it. It's kind of an administrative exercise 5 over here. My personal opinion is that the 6 Commissioners are not in a position to go changing the 7 rules. It should be someone with the background and 8 the experience to look at the rules and make the 9 revisions. Otherwise, I see a whole bunch of input 10 coming in, but I don't know who that person should be. 11 If the Commission wants to designate one person on the 12 Commission to do it, that could be done. At least that 13 way it's centralized. 14 MS. SELF: The thing that you want -- I've 15 already taken care of all the Sunshine Law stuff that 16 needed to be changed, so that is not something you need 17 to do, but what I was saying the last time was that you 18 need to determine right now how you are going to move 19 forward with your process. For instance, I think you 20 haven't decided this yet, but I think it would be like 21 in your rules; are you going to have a process whereby 22 you interview department heads or finance director 23 or just like what you were just discussing about on 24 that document that you created? So, what is the process 25 that you want to go through in order to come up with ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 65 1 salary adjustments or not come up with salary 2 adjustments? 3 So, those are the kinds of rules that you need 4 to have in place. 5 CHR. ONO: Comment on those rules, though. I 6 think if you make it too specific, you lock yourself 7 in. So, for myself, I would prefer them to be very 8 generic to allow the Commission the flexibility to -- 9 so, basically, I would think you take a look at these 10 and you remove the things that kind of lock you in and 11 give it enough breadth so that whatever you're doing 12 complies with your own rules. 13 MS. SELF: There's no requirement for 14 deadlines or anything like that because there's 15 nothing in the charter that requires you to be under 16 any kind of deadlines. But what I am suggesting is that 17 at least having a process for -- like what kind of 18 process do you want to go through every time you want 19 to make salary adjustments? 20 MR. FRATINARDO: So, would you like to see a 21 template -- that we establish a template so that when 22 we need to report to the county council with that 23 detailed report, it's... 24 MS. SELF: Well, because now, under the 25 charter, you have the charter amendment -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 66 1 MR. FRATINARDO: Right. 2 MS. SELF: -- so you are going to have a -- 3 MR. FRATINARDO: So, we have a template to go 4 off of. So, part of what we discussed for the last hour 5 could be part of that template. 6 But like you were saying, but we need to 7 leave it at the discretion of the Salary Commission to 8 be able to amend that template where needed or as 9 situations arise. 10 MS. SELF: Well, the rules can always be 11 amended. 12 MR. FRATINARDO: Sure. 13 MS. SELF: But you need to have a process in 14 place, and if you're going to have a process in place, 15 you need to have rules. 16 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, I thought we just 17 adopted a process, and all that needs to be in the 18 rules is something that says that the Commission will 19 develop a plan for how they're doing to conduct the 20 raise process. And, in fact, we've already done that. 21 MS. SELF: Okay, so that's your rule. So 22 that's a simple one -sentence addition to the rule. 23 What I would suggest -- 24 CHR. ONO: Flexibility. 25 MS. IKEDA: Uh-huh. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 67 1 MR. FRATINARDO: Does there have to be a 2 motion? 3 MR. HIGGINS: Well, one more -- 4 MS. SELF: I don't think we should do this 5 today. I think we should defer this to the next 6 meeting so that you have time to -- 7 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. 8 MS. SELF: Because I know I haven't gone 9 through all of these rules, yet. 10 MR. FRATINARDO: And a lot of their rules, or 11 proposed rules, are up for amendment, it looks like, so 12 if they amend their rules, do we have to go back and 13 look at their rules to amend our rules if theirs are 14 amended? 15 MS. SELF: Whose rules? 16 MR. FRATINARDO: The outside counties' rules. 17 MS. SELF: You don't have to do -- 18 MR. FRATINARDO: We don't have to incorporate 19 any of that. It's just a guide, just a suggestion. 20 MS. SELF: Yeah, it's just informational so 21 you can see what other counties have done. 22 MR. HIGGINS: You know, I skimmed two of the 23 other counties -- just skimmed them. I didn't see 24 anything there that was dramatically different. In 25 fact, I would say our rules are far better than the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 68 1 other counties, from what I looked at. So, to me, it's 2 just a matter of improving ours already, which are 3 terrific and can always be improved. And, as George 4 said, I think this draft plan here is -- we're well on 5 our way. So, if there was some kind of simple inclusion 6 in our rules that basically says "Develop a plan," 7 we're pretty much there. 8 MR. FRATINARDO: So, here's my question for 9 Amy, being that Amy is retiring in four months. When 10 does she need to have all this data on your desk so you 11 can proceed with what you have to do? 12 MS. SELF: The sooner, the better. 13 MR. BRILHANTE: Well, it's not like Amy is 14 going to leave us and there will be a void. 15 MR. FRATINARDO: No, but I mean -- 16 MR. BRILHANTE: She will have -- there's 17 enough people here going forward that if -- say we're 18 going to address these rules within the next month or 19 two, I think that's -- 20 MR. FRATINARDO: Just trying to be courteous 21 to Amy. That's all. Courteous. 22 CHR. ONO: No, load it on her now. 23 So, where are we? I've lost track of where we 24 are. Did we have a motion on the floor? 25 MR. HIGGINS: No. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 69 1 CHR. ONO: So, do we just want to defer this, 2 give an opportunity to look at these copies that came 3 in? 4 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, agreeing with 5 Mr. Higgins, I have looked at the copies, and I didn't 6 see anything in there that would improve our plan, our 7 rules that already exist. I think that the -- 8 CHR. ONO: Just concentrate on -- 9 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, it's time to take some 10 action. 11 Where we are is, you know, from a legal 12 perspective, Amy, we need to know if there's anything 13 in there that is -- I know you did the Sunshine rule, 14 but just from a common, legal, lawyer -type look, are 15 there any things in there that are going to give us 16 problems in the future that really needs to be changed? 17 And one I keep bringing up, that I know 18 nothing about, is the last section about how things are 19 published. And I know there are very specific rules 20 nowadays on what gets published where in terms of 21 minutes, and some of those are that they be required to 22 be published on the County's web page and within X 23 time. And those are the kinds of things that we as a 24 Commission know nothing about, but somebody in HR or 25 somewhere else does because I took a class that said ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 70 1 these are all the things that we had to do. And so, 2 that section needs to be added, and I don't know who 3 has that -- 4 MS. SELF: I'll add that. 5 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. So, that section and the 6 fact that we want to put in how often we want to meet, 7 which is -- are we going to say monthly, or are we 8 going to say bimonthly? At least every other month? I 9 don't know what the rest of the members want to do, but 10 if we put "monthly" in there, fine. Whatever it is, 11 you know, I'd like to see us put that in. 12 And, frankly, I don't see anything else that 13 needs to be changed other than the sentence I just 14 suggested we add that says that the Commission will 15 develop a plan for how they are going to conduct the 16 raise process. 17 MS. SELF: Because you were not meeting like 18 the rules right now specify, regular or general 19 meetings would be held on the second and fourth 20 Wednesdays of each month, I had already changed that 21 just to make sure that you comply with the charter. 22 So, the charter says that your rules have to 23 provide that it meet at least annually; so I changed 24 that to at least annually, just to give you some wiggle 25 room. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 71 1 MR. HIGGINS: So at least it covers 2 everything. 3 MS. SELF: Yeah. As long as you meet -- 4 MR. CAMPBELL: That's fine, as long as -- 5 MS. SELF: Then you can determine -- it can 6 be up to the Chair or whatever to determine -- 7 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. So we don't get in a 8 bind on something that -- yeah. Okay. 9 CHR. ONO: So, what are we doing with this? 10 MR. CAMPBELL: So, what I suggest is that Amy 11 come back to us with wherever the appropriate place to 12 add the thing about the Commission will develop a plan 13 on how to conduct the salary adjustment process and to 14 add the section on how things have to be posted, you 15 know, minutes, things available for the public in 16 accordance with the rules that the County has adopted 17 at this point. 18 And unless somebody else sees something, I 19 don't see anything else in there we need to change. 20 CHR. ONO: So, it's continued to the next 21 meeting? 22 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. And, at that point, I 23 propose that if the Commission agrees next time, that 24 we go to whatever formal process we have to have to 25 have our rules adopted. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 72 1 MS. SELF: I'll put together a redline 2 version, which I tried to do before, but it didn't 3 work; but now that it's been retyped in Word -- I've 4 got like three versions of this. I've done it three 5 different times. So, now that I have the Word 6 version -- actually, I've already got half of it 7 done -- I'll put it into a redline version so that when 8 I print it, hopefully, the redlines show up and you can 9 see what the changes are. 10 MR. CAMPBELL: Great. 11 MS. SELF: Because it has to be ramseyered, 12 anyway, when you publish it, to have your public 13 hearing on adopting rules. 14 MR. CAMPBELL: Right. 15 CHR. ONO: Okay. 16 MR. CAMPBELL: And so, I would presume that 17 since the rules have changed in terms of the last 18 voting changes, you know, that the public has voted in, 19 that that section has got to be added somewhere that 20 says when the Commission will adopt a plan for how 21 they're going to conduct the salary raise process and, 22 at the end of that process, they will follow, and 23 that what will follow will be a paragraph that says 24 they will publish in two newspapers and hold meetings 25 on both sides of the island and all the other stuff ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 12 MR. Page 73 1 that -- CHR. ONO: No, but it's on the agenda already, 2 MS. SELF: The stuff that's in the charter. 3 MR. CAMPBELL: Right, that's in the charter, 4 so everything is complete at that point. CHR. 5 CHR. ONO: So, it will be moved over to next 6 meeting's agenda. Okay. MR. 7 Next item, opportunity for items to be placed 8 on the next agenda. 20 say. 9 Are there any? I don't think so. 10 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, the one we just put 11 there. 23 12 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. 13 CHR. ONO: No, but it's on the agenda already, 14 isn't it? 15 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. 16 CHR. ONO: Okay. Next scheduled meeting? 17 Glynis? Christmas day. 18 MR. CAMPBELL: I'm not coming Christmas day. 19 CHR. ONO: You're the chair, so you have a huge 20 say. 21 MR. BRILHANTE: Chair, generally, unless 22 there's some deadline, December is generally -- 23 CHR. ONO: I want a meeting in December. 24 MR. BRILHANTE: You're not even going to be 25 here. He just wants to make you guys work. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 741 1 CHR. ONO: Do you want to schedule it 2 in January? Is that the desire of the Commission? 3 MR. HARANO: Yes. 4 MR. HIGGINS: Yes. 5 MS. YAMADA: I'll get the calendar to see. 6 CHR. ONO: Okay. 7 MR. HIGGINS: Bill, has it ever been done 8 where there's a motion to reject the resignation of a 9 board member? 10 MR. BRILHANTE: You know, it would be a 11 first. 12 MR. HIGGINS: Can that be done? 13 MR. BRILHANTE: I'd have to refer to Corp. 14 Counsel and get a legal opinion drafted. 15 CHR. ONO: I've been rejected before. 16 MS. SELF: Sometimes it's good to be 17 rejected. 18 MR. CAMPBELL: So, do Wednesdays or Thursdays 19 work better for people or any particular date? Looks 20 like if we did like Thursday, the 17th or the 24th of 21 January, these chambers are available. 22 CHR. ONO: Propose a date. 23 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, I'll propose the 24th of 24 January. How does that work? 25 MR. HIGGINS: What kind of day is that? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 75 1 MR. CAMPBELL: That's a Thursday. 2 MR. HIGGINS: I'm good. 3 MR. CAMPBELL: Go back to 10:00. 4 CHR. ONO: Florence has a medical procedure, 5 so she won't be here. 6 MS. IKEDA: I have knee replacements in 7 January, so I won't be available any day in January, so 8 you can go any day you want. 9 CHR. ONO: You can bring your knee 10 replacement Amy, too. 11 MS. SELF: No, I'll be done by January. 12 MR. FRATINARDO: Can we talk about the -- 13 MR. CAMPBELL: 24th at 10:00, council 14 chambers. 15 CHR. ONO: 10:00 a.m. Okay. 16 Tom, do you have something? 17 MR. FRATINARDO: No. 18 CHR. ONO: Okay. Are we ready to adjourn the 19 meeting? 20 What I would like to say, it's been a 21 privilege working with you guys. I really have enjoyed 22 it. Yeah, I've really enjoyed it. And then, you know, 23 putting together a fine group of people over here. 24 We're really a good Commission. We really are. So I 25 thank you very much. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 76 1 Special thanks to Amy and Bill and Teri, 2 Nancy back there. We won't forget about Jennifer guys 3 from HR and you, Mr. Sadegh, for being our audience 4 today. And let's not forget Allan over there, too, 5 okay? 6 Okay. So with that, meeting is adjourned. 7 (The meeting was adjourned at 11:21 a.m.) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 77 1 STATE OF HAWAII 2 ) ss . 3 COUNTY OF HAWAII 4 5 I, TERI HOSKINS, a certified court 6 reporter in the State of Hawaii, do hereby certify 7 that the foregoing pages are a true and correct 8 transcription of the proceedings in the above matter . 9 10 Dated this 7th day of December, 2018 . 11 12 13 „dir Air ,4001rri Hoski s, , CSR No . 452 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Ms. Teri Hoskins, Certified Court Reporter, transcribed the aforementioned proceedings of the Salary Commission at its meeting held on November 27, 2018. Glynis Yamada, Secretary, Salary Commission, had incorporated some minor formatting/housekeeping revisions throughout the transcript. Respectfully Submitted, thij,MAC-yafttada) Glynis Yamada, Secretary APPROVED: Hugh Y. Ono, P. E., Chair " Salary Commission PUBLIC STATEMENT REGISTRATION FORM SALARY COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HILO, HAWAII Date: i, Nov. 27) .70 it (Please print clearly) Support Oppose ,/ Comment Please list the item(s)you will be speaking on: Communication No. OR Subject/Topic: Pu A, /;€ ,,o L.?? 3 �.rnm , s s A 's Po/ Name: Ail /3 ssem *rot Aarn (5 d ' h, Representing: Thi• 1/n". Sa/ Ree) a ; Lo•J A/v.19 11 Ty (Please indicate whether Self or Organization) / ***For official use only: Speaker No. DRAFT PLAN: REVIEW AND DISCUSSION OF PROPOSED SALARY ADJUSTMENTS EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2019: OBJECTIVE: To secure the best available information toward considering and deciding on the next possible future Salary adjustment,which could become effective on July 1,2019? FUTURE SALARY ADJUSTMENTS:Could be increases,decreases or no change. PROPOSED PLAN: 1. Invite Administration,County Council,and Commissions to present and discuss these future pay adjustments. 2. Use the input and available information to review the proposal prepared by the Department of Human Resources to evaluated pay adjustments. 3. Adopt Action to be completed no later than April 30, 2019. PRESENTATION INCLUDES: (20 Minutes) 1. For each Department or Major Unit: a. Primary Duties and Responsibilities. b. Size of Staff and Organization c. Operating Budget and Funding d. Major Challenges e. Overtime Requirements f. Pre-requisite requirement for those positions. 2. Salary Considerations: a. Factors the Salary Commission should consider b. Any recommendation? c. Merit considered? d. Productivity—Goals and Objectives e. Ability of the Department to Pay? PROPOSED SCHEDULE: • December 2018—Police, Fire, Liquor • January 2019—Merit Appeals Board, Prosecuting Attorney,Corp Counsel,County Council • February 2019—Mayor's Office on: Finance, Planning, Research &Development, Information Technology • March 2019—Mayor's Office on: Housing, Public Works, Environmental Management, Managing Director, Deputy Managing Director • March—April 2019—Decision Making ATT. 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