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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN CHARTER 2018-12-14 (2018-2020)Hawaii County Charter Commission 6th Session Council Chambers, Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street, Ste. 1401 Hilo, Hawai`i December 14, 2018 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Hawai`i County Charter Commission was called to ORDER: order at 1:30 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Mr. Douglass Shipman Adams, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Douglass Shipman Adams, Chair Mr. William Carthage Bergin, Commissioner Ms. Michelle Galimba, Commissioner Mr. Paul K. Hamano, Commissioner Mr. Kevin D. Hopkins, Commissioner (arrived at 1:35 p.m.) Mr. Christopher John Imiloa Roehrig, Commissioner Ms. Marcia A. K. Saquing, Commissioner Ms. Donna Mae Springer, Commissioner Ms. Bobby Jean Leithead Todd, Commissioner Absent: Ms. Jennifer Zelko-Schlueter, Vice Chair Ms. Sarah H. Rice, Commissioner Also Present: Mr. J Yoshimoto, Commission Attorney Mr. Jon Henricks, Commission Analyst Ms. Shannon Magnuson, Commission Secretary Mr. Scott Ruedy, Dep. Executive Assistant to Council Chair (Kona Courtesy Site) CHR. ADAMS: Welcome to the 6th session of the County of Hawai`i Charter Commission for 2018 to 2020 here at 1:31 p.m. on December 14th. I would ask that communication devices please be turned off and silenced like these. I am going to call the meeting to order. Before I ask for Mr. Henricks to provide us with roll call, just a couple of comments. At some point in the next few minutes, Mayor Kim is expected to come in. If he comes in before statements from the public, I am going to give him the opportunity to make his statement. If he comes in during statements, I will allow him to make his statement during that statement as well, just so that we are clear. We have quite a few statements from the public, which I am very happy about and so, again, I would ask that decorum be maintained during the comments. Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: ALAN BROWN: Everybody's continents are important and so, I want to make sure that we receive them appropriately. Mr. Henricks if you could call the roll please. MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Bergin- (here), Ms. Galimba (here), Mr. Hamann (here), Mr. Hopkins, Ms. Leithead-Todd (present), Ms. Rice, Mr. Roehrig (here), Ms. Saquing (here), Ms. Springer (here), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter, Chair Adams (here). Chair Adams, you have 8 members in attendance at this time. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you, so we have excused, Commissioner Rice, Commissioner Hopkins, and Commissioner Zelko. Although I anticipate that Commissioner Hopkins will arrive at some point. The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business, Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. CHR. ADAMS: Alrighty. At this time I would like to move on into statements from the public. If I could ask Kona, do you have statements from the public in Kona? MR. RUEDY: Good Afternoon Chair, we have five testifiers here in Kona today. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, so why don't we start with you and then if I could ask that when you come forward to testify, if you could provide your name, the agenda item on which you are speaking, and then understand that there is a three minute limit per agenda item that you are speaking on. I appreciate that. So our first testifier from Kona. MR. RUEDY: Okay, our first testifier here in Kona is going to be Alan Brown in support of CA -9, opposing CA -7, and to be followed by Keoni Fox in support of CA -9, opposing CA -7. Go ahead and state your name for the record. Proposal No. CA -7 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MR. BROWN: My name is Alan Brown. I am a resident in Waiki`i Hawai`i with property, I am testifying for myself and property along the Kohala coast. I had the opportunity to grow up along the Kohala coast in 1950's, and 60's, and 70's when there was very little of any human population along the coast and now we have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people. So I would love to see that the two percent fund remain in effect and that the proposal of providing a staff member would be approved and also I am opposing CA -7 for amending that program. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Mr. Brown. Next testifier please. Page 2 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 KEONI FOX: Proposal No. CA -7 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MR. FOX: Good afternoon Commissioners and fellow community members. My name is Keoni Fox. I am a descendant of Ka`u, a cultural practitioner, and a steward of the land. I am here today to provide testimony as an individual in opposition to Charter Amendment 7 and in support of Charter Amendment 9. I am involved with two non-profit organizations who have applied for either stewardship or acquisitions through the program so I am very familiar with the benefits of the PONC (Public Access, Open Space and Natural Resources Preservation Commission) and its challenges. For the past two years the Ka`u community has been seeking funding through the program to preserve and protect over 2,000 acres at Kahilipali Waikapuna. We advocated strongly for the protection of the Kahua Olohu or Makahiki grounds which were purchased by the County in 2016. Just last week Ho`omalu Ka`ii received a PONC stewardship grant for the Ka`u Olohu and we are committed to restoration of these sacred lands in order to bring back Makahiki to Ka`u. The program needs to be strengthened, not weakened. Comparisons to similar programs in Honolulu, Maui, and Kauai, should not be the basis for reducing funding or allowing County Council to suspend the program. Instead, other Counties should be looking at our program as a model to improve their own programs. Our Hawai`i Island is so blessed with immeasurable natural resources, unparalleled scenic beauty, miles of open space, and a rich history and a multitude of cultural resources. Every day I stand in awe at the beauty that surrounds us and the Mand which flows from these lands. Everywhere we look we are reminded of the treasures which our kupuna put into our care for safekeeping to be passed on to future generations. We have a moral responsibility to protect this legacy of our ancestors and to provide for our children and grandchildren. The beauty of this program is that it provides balance between conservation and developments. Moneys from real property tax mean higher percentages come from resort, commercial, and industrial properties. More importantly the program empowers our island community to be involved in the protection of our lands from start to finish. Nominations are submitted by people in the communities. Stewardship is performed by people in the community. This process builds a sense of responsibility and care for our lands. This is a concept native Hawaiians practiced for centuries under the ahupua'a system, malama `aina. I especially want to applaud efforts of Commissioner Galimba and voice my strong support for Charter Amendment 9 which would use monies from the fund to create a senior staff position. This is exactly the type of thoughtful amendments that we need to the program. I appreciate all the hard work from Hamana Ventura and Maxine Cutler at the Department of Finance. They are doing an outstanding job and I believe that this solution will further support their efforts and give the program what it needs to be more successful. Thank you. Page 3 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. We have additional testifiers in Kona? MR. RUEDY: Yeah, the next two testifiers are coming up. Kelly Pomeroy to speak on Communication 24 and to follow her is Kathleen McMiller in opposition of 290. Go ahead and state your name. KELLY POMEROY: Communication No. 24 in opposition. MS. POMEROY: Yes, I am Kelly Pomeroy. I am commenting on the land fund and I am really appalled. I couldn't believe it when I read this. Years ago when this thing was first being proposed, the two percent program was being proposed, I spent hours and hours and hours collecting thousands of signatures to get that thing passed and I was so pleased when it passed and so appalled when I read this about what is being proposed. My reaction was sort of equal parts incredulity and nausea. This does not look like something I would expect to be proposed in, I mean this is radical. I would not expect it to be proposed in Hawai`i. It sounds like to me like something that would have come out of the Trump administration. To say that not only do you not want to keep adding to the fund, you want to cap future increases, you want to take away protections that are already there? Where is this coming from? Obviously it is corning from development interests and I think that if you weigh development interests versus the private interest in Hawai`i and especially on the Big Island, I think you'll find that this proposal is definitely not popular and I hope that you will vote it down. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Next testifier. KATHLEEN MCMILLEN: Proposal No. CA -7 in opposition. MS. MCMILLEN: Hello I am Kathleen McMillen. I am a resident of Kona and I have been here for 27 years and I am speaking for myself and I am speaking for Charter Amendment 9 and against Charter Amendment 7. I have grave concerns about the handling, the attitude of our County government with regard to the two percent land fund. The law has been in place since 2005 and yet the will to implement its intentions are constantly stymied. This forward thinking law was supported by a large majority, 63% of the voters several times, of the Big Island residents to assure our island does not suffer the over- crowding, horrible traffic etc. as on other islands in our state and to preserve open space and park lands for future generations. There's 16 million dollars in this fund because the County does not have the will to move forward and buy lands for preservation of our island's future. When I sent an email to the Mayor last year, his public relations agent told me there were other funding priorities, as if these monies were part of the general fund for the County. They are not. They have been earmarked only for open space Page 4 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 acquisition. I am so sick of our politicians eyeing a pot of public funds designated for one use and trying to manipulate legislation so they can raid that fund for other uses. It seems to happen every time there is a funding shortfall or a natural disaster. Why isn't disaster relief fund properly funded? I say don't jeopardize our future because of your inability to plan well for potential disasters economic and social problems. If we do not preserve our lands now, all of those problems will be significantly exasperated. Yes, problems need to be dealt with, but let's not get stuck in short term thinking at the expense of the future of our people. Open spaces and park lands are not just enjoyable, they contribute to the peace and health of every resident and are critical to the environment. There is a movement by our Mayor and other politicians to weaken the two percent fund at a time when it should be strengthened. We should not have to keep voicing what we citizens have already made very clear. Rather than raiding those funds, how about implementing the will of the citizens and taking decisive action now by using these funds to hire staff to acquire more lands for a more secure future for us all. And I want you to think about one thing that keeps coming to my mind. Where would we be if it wasn't for the forward thinking politicians on a national scale. What if Teddy Roosevelt had never started our national parks system. Where would we be now and how would be developing those lands? We have an administration now that wants to threaten those park lands and this is how I am feeling about what we are doing here and I think it sets a horrible example now and for our future generations. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much. At this time I am going to suspend statements from the public. We will return to that. Invite Mayor Kim to the table to make a statement. MAYOR KIM: MAYOR KIM: Thank you very much. I stopped to ask John what was his position on this. If you notice I sat next to a person who is on this side. There's no enemies here. I just want to make that clear. I need to, I never, and people who know me know that I never prepare testimony regardless of what it is. I go strictly for what I feel at the time, but the reason that I prepared somethings just this morning as a matter of fact, is because I wanted to make sure that I emphasize certain things and don't forget it. First of all, thank you for your work. The most important thing for me here today is to clarify misinformation as far as the administration stand past and present. I do sincerely ask that all involved check the information for accuracy because there is so much misinfonnation out there on this very important issue. This administration of the past between the year 2000-2008 records are open and will verify specifically what properties was purchased or acquired utilizing federal, state, and county funds. The responsibility to protect our special lands should not be so heavily burdened on the limited County property taxes but on all sources of funds. I am very proud of what was accomplished. You know this is Page 5 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 not about election time, you know that, so I rarely say a lot of this things in public, written or verbal. I never have, I never will, but this is important and I think it is time that we emphasize certain things. I ask that all of you and members of the public, to review very carefully what this administration stood for. I am very proud that we acquired more lands for the public then Maui and Kauai combined without the two percent while they had their one percent and half percent. I stress again, the responsibility of protecting our special lands should not be so heavily burdened on the limited County property taxes, but on all sources of funds. The emphasis of doing that, has been heavy in regards to our priority and it is not a matter of bragging of this or that. It is a matter of what our position has been. I am proud of Kohanaiki. I am sure there must be some of you who must be familiar with the history of Kohanaiki. This is before the two percent because the priority was to work with the private sector and all sectors to preserve precious land. The beautiful people of Kona fought the development of Kohanaiki for what 14 years, including Supreme Court. We worked with them and through their cooperation in the community, when you go to Kohanaiki Park which is I think, as I asked the owner, give me a template, give me a reason for a template to show that this is how land should be developed. Not only for hotels and resorts but in combination of the community so they would have use of it also and protect the heritage of that land, and if you go to Kohanaiki, I ask Bill McMorrow who is the CEO of Kennedy Wilson, help me make a template. Help me protect lands of Hawaii for the people of Hawai` i also besides your hotel and look what he did. Way beyond.... The community you know, agreed to meet with them and they met. It wasn't an overnight thing to tell you the truth. It was nine months of hard work, a lot of give, a lot of take etc. etc. and look at what you have out there now and every time I see Bill, you know I thank him for it. There is a sign out there in the entrance of the Kohanaiki Park and it says "This park is because of a true partnership." Emphasis of the word true partnership of Kennedy Wilson, the community and the County of Hawaii and other things it says of caring for it. I wrote that sign because in meeting with the board I thanked them and I said the people should always use this as a template of how we must work together, not one over the other and he came through for us because I told him and asked him, help me take the straw off what is happening to Hawai`i or at the very minimum, don't add a straw to what we have been doing and I am glad that at the end of it all he wrote me a letter and said I hope I did more than take off one straw. Because if you are not familiar with Kohanaiki, they developed a whole thing with the community of what you want to see there- the road, the showers, the toilets, the camping area, they clean it up every single day and all of that is before the two percent. Look at `O`oma next door. Yes, they went bankruptcy but Kohanaiki, Kennedy Wilson, Bill McMorrow, gave the County government of Hawai`i two million dollars to purchase that portion and before bankruptcy, they were trying to develop that. They committed to the people of Kona, we will follow the template of what Kohanaiki did and so they segregated that. So now you have almost two miles of pristine ocean front land that will forever belong to the people of Hawai`i and I know this sounds kind of bragging and I am not doing it to brag, but I am just trying to answer the ugly letters of mistruths of what I am Page 6 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 standing for and why. Go ask Kohanaiki, the board, who was at the first and told them hey that property is for sale you know, buy it for the people of Hawai`i. On commitment, an accusation that we are trying to delay funding of expenditures in regards to use that money by law, that can be used only for that by law, nothing else not for maintenance, not for anything else but for purchase of property, but still of suspect of trying to maneuver. I promise the people of Hawai`i even though I made a public statement why I thought that policy was not a good one in regard to budgetary consideration of good times and hard times and that is obviously on record, I have changed from that to where I am today, but that is not the point here on accusations. We established a policy and you know that if you just look at it. We established a policy because initially it was that the Mayor will have review and opportunity for change or recommendation. The policy was made that the Mayor will not have any authority over those funds. The commission of the people will make the review and the recommendation, it will pass through the Mayor originally for review and recommendations and approval, but I made a policy it goes straight to my office and then straight to the County Council for approval and come back and we pass it through to the State and that's it. We kept that promise, so any thought that this administration—any thought that this administration tampered with it or approached the commission, review the records, not one time in all of those years did I ever approach the commission to persuade them to do this or influence them on this or that. They didn't even receive a letter or a phone call from me and that is what I promised the people and that is what I promised the commission. Ask any one of them. The only time and I will admit it, that I caused a delay was during this tern. It was passed by the commission and it was a recommendation of buying that piece of property in Kapoho. I know that place like the back of my hand and I thought the value that established by the assessor was too high to use government money. So I sent it to say that I would like to have the value reassessed because I thought it was too much because most of the land I thought was covered by water most of the time anyway and that should not be added value, but it came back and it stated that the value was accurate. I didn't respond again, I passed it through. But that was the only time I caused a delay. In regards to now, yes I do support the cap all things like that to make sure they have cap on limited funds. Yes, I do support the reduction of the two percent. How much? That's for the people to decide and what you recommend because I think two percent is just too much on our limited funds. You're citizens doing a volunteer job. Of all people that wrote me letters of criticism, Kit was one of them of too many high taxes. Any politician or any person would tell you the hardest thing to do of any kind is to raise property tax. Property tax is limited. Right now it accounts for roughly 75% of our total revenues. If anyone thinks that it is of light and not much of a discussion on what to do with limited revenues and with growing expenses, it is not easy, so our job is to look at the avenue of the revenues and the budget, to establish what is priority etc. etc. and this is why I state to you what my position is now. The two percent is too high. Yes, the Page 7 Hawai `i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 principal of protecting public lands has always been there with or without the two percent just look at our record of how much property we bought. I am proud of Kohanaiki, `O`oma, Pohiki, Hakalau, Lehia, Honu'apo, Honl's, and others. All of that as purchased prior to mandating us to purchase it. Does that not elaborate quite clearly what this administration's priority is, establishing the protecting of lands. We didn't need a law to tell us this was important. The misconception here is not the principal of protecting the lands. I am here for the principal of who pays for it, how much, and that is what I am asking. Property tax is very limited. Expenses keep growing. This is very difficult. You see how many times we have had to raise the taxes and nobody wants to do that. I am asking you to review it. Keep the principal of we must do things to protect our lands, suggestions are lower the two percent to whatever, one percent like Maui, half percent like Kaua`i, that's your decision on what you recommend. Does it take away from protecting? I don't think so. Does it take away our job to seek federal fiends, state funds, private cooperation, to identify properties that should be, and we are doing it regardless of what you pass or don't pass, we will continue to do that as well as we did it before this was even a figment of anyone's imagination. I ask any and all of you to look at the records passed which is all public documents to see if anything I told you is of half-truth of any mistruth. Thank you very much for listening to me. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Mr. Mayor. I would like to return to statements from the public. I understand that we still have a testifier in Kona. MR. RUEDY: Yes, good afternoon Chair, we do have one testifier. It looks like she is ready now. Brenda Ford. Go ahead and state your name for the record. BRENDA FORD: Communication Nos. 19 and 24 in support and Communication Nos. 21, 23, and 25 opposition. MS. FORD: Thank you. I am Brenda Ford, former Council Member and I am also a co-author of the PONC fund and the maintenance fund along with Debbie Hecht. For years we've had battles with the administration trying to get enough money to buy the treasured lands that we have been trying to protect. I would like to say one thing in the beginning regarding Mr. Kim's statements. Mr. Kim is just one Mayor. He may or may not support the PONC fund. That doesn't mean the next Mayor is going to do it. We have already had a problem with the previous Mayor stopping all funding of the PONC because it was in the Code. That's why we wrote it into the Charter, to prevent administration or County Council from stopping the will of the people. The people run this County. The job of the Mayor is to administer the laws and the work of the County employees except for the Council. The people make the laws through the County Council and through the ballot. We passed this law three times with over 60% each time. If you continue to do what you are doing, we are going to have to mount a massive expensive campaign to stop people from voting for your proposals. Page 8 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 There are some things that we could change and I would like to talk to you about that regarding the PONC fund. We would like to have a staff member be paid for by the County, I am sorry, by the PONC fund and to work in the finance department. Ms. Hecht I believe has the information and has supplied it to you or if not she will. So I oppose all the changes you are making except the ones we are making today for the staff member and in the future we are going to make some changes to the—recommend some changes to the maintenance fund. Do not take the money away. Do not reduce the money. We are trying to get people to take care of this. This is on Communication No. 21, so let me know when I get to my three minutes and I will go on to other things. No Mayor is above the law or below the ball. They are supposed to implement the law. That is why it is in the Charter. That's why the Council can't change it once the voters have passed it. We are trying to get people to take care of the land. There's no money being expended on any of these lands by the County. They don't have to maintain them. They can just leave them alone until some day we do have money or we find a committed group like Mr. Keoni talked about that wants to take care of the land. If we don't buy the lands now, they will be gone forever. There was an idea thrown out into the public that developers could take better care of the land than the County. Developers only want to make money and there's nothing wrong with making money, but not at the expense of the people's treasured lands. Alright, so, I am asking you to not do what you are trying to do. It is an appalling slap in the face to the people who have passed this legislation three times. So that is all my comments ori the PONC. On Communication No. 19, the legislative auditor, changing the name to County Auditor, is fine. I support that. By the way, I wrote that law too. Communication No. 23, four-year terms versus two-year terms, every Charter Commission tries to do this. One of the excuses given is it should be a four-year teen, is the Council members have to run every other year. An election is not about the comfort of a Council member. It is about the will of the people and their attempt to get the best Council member that they can get to do the job for the people. If you give Council members a four-year term, a bad Council member, a lazy Council member, even a Council member doing illegal things can cause a great deal of damage. But if they don't do their job every two years the community can vote thein out of office. If they have a four-year term we have to do recalls, we have to do impeachments, we have to do all kinds of expensive time consuming things. If it is two years, we get rid of them right away. So I oppose four-year terms as a Council member I know it is tough to run an election. I have done it five times. I know it is hard, but that is not what you should be looking at. It is not about the Council members. It is about the people and what is best for them and it is best for them to get a Council member who will work their butts off for them for two years and then two years, and two years. I served eight consecutive years. Page 9 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 Next thing is Communication No. 24, the PONC staff person. I absolutely support that. Debbie and I have written an amendment. I don't know if that is what this one is about, but Debbie Hecht has the amendment and she is supposably is going to provide it to you. The PONC should pay for a staff person and the only job they should have in the finance department is working to get the PONC lands maintenance managed by community groups, going after money... Mayor Kim made it sound like the County is paying a 100% of these lands and that is not true. We get state funds, we get private funds, we get grants, plus the County funds. The reason we go after these particular lands in a certain order is because we go after the lands that have money matching funds. That's the whole purpose of the PONC is to get matching funds. We can't always do it, but we should always try to do it. Now the last things is Communication No. 25, this is regarding the salary commission. I have never been so appalled as the last County salary commission that gave raises to the executive people and the County Council, approximately 30% increases, saying well Maui and Honolulu and all these other places have higher salaries. Too bad. We don't live in those places. We live here. It is not about giving people a lot of money to do their job and then give them a 30% raise. I mean look at the things that we still have to get done and they are not getting done, and people are sitting on their bottoms and they are not doing their job. Giving them a 30% raise is outrageous. What you should be doing is eliminating the salary commission in its entirety. The job should go back to the County Council and they should be doing the job of setting salaries for themselves and the executives, and if they do it wrong, every two years they are going to get voted out of office. They better not screw up. The salary commission is responsible to no one and we saw what they did. When you give somebody, a group, or a person absolute power, it corrupts absolutely and now we have got a massive increase in salaries at the executive level and there is no excuse for it at all. Please consider what I have said as a former Council member and a person who worked hard to get the PONC fund and its maintenance fund established in the Charter to protect it from Mayors and Council members, and apparently Charter Commission who keeps trying to destroy it. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. I would like to bring in a couple of testifiers from Hilo. I have Cory Harden and Doug Sensenig. If you could come to the table please. Just a reminder if you would please provide your name and the agenda items that you are speaking to. DOUG SENSENIG: Proposal No. CA -7 and Proposal No. CA -9, commenting. MR. SENSENIG: My name is Doug Sensenig. I live in Waimea. I am the former executive director of the Hawai`i Island Land Trust and I am here representing my own perspective. I oppose CA -7 and I am in favor of CA -9. I just want to emphasize sort of some general things that I think are extremely important when characterizing the amount of money that is in the fund. Land here as everyone Page 10 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 knows, is extremely expensive. Millions of dollars you know are required for relatively small projects. The big thing though that is important is the fund doesn't exist in a vacuum. It complements state and federal funds that are available. It also complements private philanthropy in organizations on a large scale such as the Nature Conservancy, the Trust for Public Land, and these matching funds that are available and potential really leverage what can be done with these funds to give the people of Hawai`i Island the most bang for their buck. So, what a lot of these organizations want to see though, is they want to see local commitment and when they see that the County of Hawai`i has put money forward to protect land, they are going to be much more willing to commit money themselves. If they don't see local commitment and local interest, it has a harmful effect. The key to our credibility in a lot of these, with a lot of these groups -state, federal, and private money, is perpetual protection of land and it is extremely important that we, that the protections that are put on land are perpetual not temporary and not subject to being able to be over turned. No one is going to match funds if a deed or a purchase is made that could be rescinded later on and it is only reasonable to expect that a funder is not going to let the County have land that they can get rid of later on -sell off I do ask that you respect the will of the people. I do think there is a lot of irritation out there by the fact that this has been gone before the people of Hawaii three times and the people have spoken overwhelmingly in favor of this exact structure. Mayor Kim gave several examples of ways in which the County has protected land previously without the two percent funds. The people of Hawai`i knew all of that when they voted for this exact program and they voted for it knowing the prior history of what has gone on here. So I just say that we have to respect their wisdom and be willing to invest in a way that protects their interests and their vision of the future and I would ask you to think about where you want Hawaii Island to be in 50 years, what you want to look back on and see as our legacy that we have left to the people of the future and what that is going to look like and what this island is going to look like. So please I ask you, maintain the current program and... CHR. ADAMS: Please summarize. DOUG SENSENIG: and implement CA -9. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Harden, Ms. Harden. CORY HARDEN: Proposal No. CA -7 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. HARDEN: Yeah, good afternoon, Cory Harden speaking for myself. I am opposing CA -7 to water down the two percent land fund. I do support a few changes. One is capping or suspending the fund in case of recession or emergencies but only if there is really strong safeguards like having the fund at 10 million, requiring written justification from the finance department, and a two - Page 11 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 thirds vote of County Council. I would support allowing transfers to other entities but only if there is written justification and only a guarantee that the land will remain protected forever. I support increasing use for maintenance funds as discussed before and putting the two percent fund under finance. I hear people ask why we need the two percent when Hawai`i Island has one million acres in conservation already. But some of that is places where you can build houses or chop down trees. It's not well protected land and there is always smart lawyers looking for ways to rezone for their hotels and their golf courses. Cutting the two percent fund would be penny wise and pound foolish. Open spaces strengthen communities. People come together to care for the land. People refresh their spirits in special places through cultural practices, by becoming grounded in history, by experiencing beauty, peace and quiet, and through exercise and fun for young and old. Protected lands protect priceless resources, watersheds, aquafers, and endangered species. Open spaces can cut the need for costly emergency and disaster recovery by preventing people from building in disaster prone areas and they can stop people from building in remote areas where it is really expensive to take services out, try to deliver police or fire, medical, transportation, education, and social services to remote areas. Also we can reduce expensive shipping infrastructure and increase our food security by growing food on protected land. Open spaces increase neighboring property values and they attract tourists without the environmental and social impacts of lavish hotels. On CA -9, I support CA -9 for a staff person. Commenting here on Mayor Kim's comments, he talked about public private partnerships. I wonder what happens with that when maybe in the future you could make more money off the land by not having it protected. I think his administration is strong on protecting land, but if you get an administration that is really pro developer and we are going to end up looking like Oahu. On the staff person, when people see that not too many properties have been purchased, they say oh well, maybe we don't need all that funding, so we better cut it, but the problem is lack of staff time to really work through all the steps. You have to get open space commission approval, you have got to line it up with the finance department, you have to go through several County Council meetings, get funds cobbled together from various sources, and negotiate with the land owner. Getting a staff person would enable the two percent fund to work as intended. It wouldn't cost the County any extra, and it would relieve finance department staff of two percent duties so they can do other things. So please protect our special places. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. I understand we have one more testifier in Kona. What I would like to do is ask Deborah Ward and Jon Olson to please to come to the table at this time here in Hilo. I would like the testifier in Kona please to identify herself, the agenda items you are speaking on, and you have three minutes per agenda items. Page 12 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MR. RUEDY: Our last testifier here today is Susan Dursin to comment on Communication No. 24. State your name. SUSAN DURSIN: Communication No. 24 in comment. MS. DURSIN: I am Susan Dursin from South Kona and I would like to thank the members of the Charter Commission for their service and also send out a big thank you to those people who have served or are presently serving on the PONC Commission. They have done a great deal to further voter's wishes. I am opposed to reducing or capping amounts for land acquisition. The voters who passed the Charter Amendments had the long view. They did not have a time horizon of ten or twenty years. They were looking way, way down the road to future generations and hoping to protect this land, important parcels, open space for future generations. Yes, the fund may accumulate. It has. It may accumulate even further, but without having good sized funding in there you can't hope to act quickly when a very valuable piece becomes available, nor can you attract matching funds especially if the amounts are not secure. In any case, I would also ask that the ad hoc committee be allowed to continue its review of the Charter Amendments relating to PONC. Yes, they did do work, but I think their work isn't done. As far as I can see, there was no interview of commission members, or staff members, of organizations trying to apply or who have already applied and received grants, maintenance and management grants, and then no conversation with organizations that have great experience in land conservation. So let's look and see whether they could continue the review. There is plenty of time within the Charter Commission's timeframe. There is no doubt that PONC could be administered more effectively of course, but I think it does come down to process as Cory pointed out. There are so many steps, time consuming steps and so, from the very beginning, the fact that it was in Parks and Recreation who had their plate really full and may have had some bias, inherent bias toward the PONC and so yes, let's move it to finance, but beyond that, we need dedicated staff that can focus on acquiring property, on managing and maintaining it and also in talking to these groups that are interested in providing some matching funds. MR. RUEDY: Please summarize. MS. DURSIN: Thank you. Thank you very much and please, I appreciate your listening to us and listening to our suggestions. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. At this time we will move back in to Hilo. Deborah Ward. DEBORAH WARD: Communication No. 21 -Proposal No. CA -7 in opposition and Communication No. 24- Proposal No. CA -9 in support. Page 13 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MS. WARD: Good afternoon. Good afternoon Council, sorry, Charter Commission. My name is Deborah Ward. I am Chair of Sierra Club of the Moku Loa Group and I am speaking for them today. There are a thousand members of our club. We have voiced strong opposition to the Commission's approval, or ah, proposal of CA -7 to repeal and replace of the land fund. Our members voted to support overwhelmingly this three times. Many of our members worked very, very hard to get out the vote, to put out signs, to talk it up, to attend you know the meetings, and to communicate with people all over the island in order to support this and Hawai `i County is the least developed of all of the large high islands in the archipelago. It still has large parcels, undeveloped land that are suitable for preservation, for agriculture, for beach access which is getting harder and harder to get. For cultural significance, for parks, for significant vistas and even more. And many of us have chosen to live on this island precisely because it is not overdeveloped and over commoditized as are Maui, Oahu, and Kauai and our members have worked tirelessly to create, support, petition, and vote for this fund and the proposal the Charter Commission is to reduce the fund and replace critical provisions, has left our members perplexed and very, very disappointed. Reduction of the funding assessed and capping the total, would make the purchases of the parcels that have been proposed for protection out of the question. Your proposal would hobble the work of the volunteer PONC committee and the finance department with unreasonable caps of the funds that can be utilized to match with other funding agencies to purchase parcels. Your proposal to delete the clause that protects the land from sale in perpetuity, would throw into doubt any participation with the other agencies with matching funds, such as the Legacy Lands Commission, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, the Trust for Public Lands and other organizations and private donors. And providing funds to match under circumstances where the land could later be disposed of, it wouldn't make any sense. Nobody would loan or give money to do that. The maintenance fund is another critical part of the protection, support, and upkeep of these lands and I must say that despite our Mayor's statements to the opposite, I believe that he is actually misinformed about the maintenance fund. He says it is not being used for protecting those lands, but it is and I just spend an hour and a half this morning with a family that just gave birth or they would be here today and they talked about their experience with Parks and Recreation and their inefficient to provide those maintenance funds even after they have been awarded. They have applied, they have received assurances that they will get the money, and it is sometimes six, nine, and 11 months after they have been given those maintenance funds, before they are actually distributed. In the meantime, if that family and their commitment to the proposal... CHR. ADAMS: Please summarize MS. WARD: Okay, well that is going to come up next month and they will be here. The goal of Sierra Club is to strengthen the land fund, the two percent land fund, by improving the way properties are acquired and by awarding stewardship grants funded by the maintenance to help community groups care for these lands Page 14 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 and from 2006 to today citizens have proposed 180 properties and we have only funded 14. It is very slow, very inefficient and we are proposing to make changes that will make it better, not worse. So now I would like to go on to supporting Communication No. 24 which is CA -9 and we support that for the following reasons. A senior staff person should be hired by the department of finance to work only on the two percent fiend and this staff person is in addition to the staff person who works with the PONC Committee. The salary shall be funded from the two percent land fund and it is a benefit to the department of finance because it will erase one staff salary since the salary does not come from their budget now, or but from the land fund instead. I wanted to point out that this is one of the taxes that is not regressive: You look at the gas tax that was recently passed and that gas tax was regressive. It punishes the people at the lowest end of the income scale to fund the roads, but this tax is not regressive. This tax takes away from the people who have largely sufficient money in order to cover the assessed property value that they are, uh, for property that they own. So this does not actually impact the County. In fact, the funds that are unexpended are not harmful in any way. They actually improve our ability to get good bonds, good bonding rating and that is another thing that the County actually needs, so having a balance in the account is not a harmful thing. So the proposed amendment which is CA -9 does not delete the perpetuity protection clause. This property or easement was acquired with money from Public Access and it should be held in perpetuity for use and enjoyment for the people of Hawai`i and it should not be sold, mortgaged, or traded in any way. I will close with that. Thank you very much. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Mr. Olson. JON OLSON: Thank you members of the commission. CHR. ADAMS: Again, you are speaking on... JON OLSON: Communication No. 21 -Proposal No. CA -7, Proposal No.CA-8, and Proposal No. CA -9, commenting. MR. OLSON: I am speaking on CA -7, CA -8, and CA -9, Communications 21, 23, and 24. Obviously 21 and 24 are joined at the hip. I have had the privilege and bane of trying to get a piece of property funded over a thirty year period, starting way before there was such a mechanism. The first thing that strikes me about this whole process is the fact that we keep comparing ourselves with the other islands. Well, guess what folks, we are nine times larger than any other island in the Archipelago so just by virtue of geography we have a larger problem to deal with and we have more assets to deal with, if you choose to look at them as assets and they are. They are assets to our visitor industry, they are assets to our community. This is not just throwing money down the pipe to see what happens. These things have been identified by the community and all elements of the community is Page 15 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 something that, is something that is worth preserving. It is just as simple as that. Yeah, it is going to cost some money. I would without much hesitation say that it certainly if you talk to the visitor industry about it, they are not going to say anything bad about it. Our biggest attraction is a huge open space and now is a much larger hole in the ground, Kilauea. When Kilauea was not open we lost nine percent of our visitors. Some numbers of hundreds of millions of dollars did not come in our direction according to the analysis of Howard Dicus on good old NPR. A period of time, we have been working again 30 years, there is a piece of property we are into the third generation of the owners and it is now coming up on the market. They are willing to sell. They knew that earlier generations were not. They contacted us. We didn't contact them. You will be hearing about it. But it is an asset that is out there in Puna, we have lost some others yes, but there are others to be gained. The professionalism is certainly an issue and in the, certainly in the early days when we first started out on the level of professionalism, the period it took to educate the people who were put in the position is how they would manage, get things done, phone calls not returned, offices not opened, these all impact the success that you are going to have and the willingness of people to do business with you. There has to be consistency. And consistency of course is what government is supposed to do best. And having these lands in public trust gives everyone the assurance that when I show up with my grandkids they are going to be there. Thank you for your time. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. I would like to invite Debbie Hecht and Ms. Wille up to the table please. DEBBIE HECHT: Proposal No. CA -7 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. HECHT: Good afternoon Commissioners. My name is Debbie Hecht and I have been the campaign coordinator for the two percent land fund since 2005. That is almost 15 years we have been revisiting the land fund and each time it was on the ballot 63% of people voted in favor. I will be commenting on two issues today, opposing CA -7 which guts the fund and 1 support the new proposed CA -9. Thank you for Commissioner Galimba to bring it forward. The Save Our Lands Citizen's Committee is working on an amendment to strengthen the maintenance fund for your February meeting. CA -7 reduces the two percent land fund to three quarters percent which would be about 1.5 million dollars per year, and caps the fund. It moves the maintenance fund which provides money to community groups in the County to maintain these lands. It is proposed to put the maintenance fund into the County Code where the Mayor and Council can stop deposits to the fund just like Mayor Kenoi did as his first piece of legislation in 2006. Did you know that the land fund only really receives 1.5 percent of the total income stream of the County of Hawaii. I have run my own business for 40 years and I can cut one percent of my budget in five minutes. Let us remember that in 2006 when Billy Kenoi did inherit Mayor Kim's budget, there were over Page 16 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 300 funded, but unfilled jobs. He suspended deposits to the fund for two years, and he cut the jobs to help fund the budget. The new legislation proposed by Commissioner Galimba will strengthen the two percent land fund by paying for a full-time staff person out of the two percent monies, who will work only on the land and maintenance fund. This will save the finance department one salary. There are a couple of language changes in the proposed legislation and I gave you a sheet with pink highlight. Sorry for the pink highlight and we wanted to say dedicated only to the administration in the provisions of this section and that this staff position and is addition to the staff provided for the Public Access and Open Space Commission. So, what you are considering today as CA -7 deletes the clause, I call it the perpetuity clause. It protects the land in perpetuity. This would also delete the potential matching funds which is really the greatest gift of the land fund. The land fund has used... 30% of the purchase prices have come from Legacy Lands and U.S. Fish and Wildlife, and why would generous donors keep helping with matching funds if these lands could be sold and the money put in the general fund? Soon after you were seated as Commissioners, Mayor Kim said he wanted to sell some of these lands because they wouldn't be cared for. That's just not true. The maintenance fund cares for these properties and government entities traditionally have memorandums of understanding to care for jointly managed lands. For example, the Ala Kahakai National Historic Trail management plan has cooperated with the County to use the two percent land funds to purchase parts of the Ala Kahakai Trail, the King's Trail around the island near Honu`apo and soon Waikapuna with a non-profit that will care for them, the Ala Kahakai Trail Association. They plan to use stewardship funds. This is a public private partnership. Right now there is approximately 16 million in the fund and this is because there is no full-time staff person to shepherd the land fund, the two percent land fund program. It is a long, lengthy program which I believe you have heard about and it takes at least a year to get it all done. And that is if you have a willing seller. But we still have 180 properties that were proposed and only 14 acquired. We propose that the department of finance will hire a full-time senior staff person to administer and manage the fund. And I gave you the proposed changes to clarify that they work only, only, only on the two percent land fund program. Comparing Hawai`i's two percent land fund program to Honolulu and Maui and Kaua`i is like comparing apples to orange, to kumquats. Our island has 4,000 square miles of land to Oahu's 600 square miles, less open space, and they have a much larger tax base for their half percent. That is appropriate for that island. Maui County's rate is one percent. Maui is just over 700 square miles and very densely populated. Kaua`i is roughly 500 square miles. Our shoreline access and lands, have been threatened by resort development where parking is now limited at Kuki`o, the Mauna Lani, the Kohanaiki and `O`oma, not at `O`oma, but at the resorts, 30 cars per day. Imagine if someone did that in Hilo at Richardsons. Page 17 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 A resort was proposed for Punalu'u and shot down by residents there. So there is a threat and '0'oma, or maybe I misunderstood Mayor Kim, '0' oma was purchased with two percent money, the park there, and it was, there was a two million dollar donation for the `O`oma purchase, so that was,'I, I, don't think he had that quite right. So, I will move to comment on the two percent land fund program. I know you have received lots of email from concerned citizens. At the last meeting, Mr. Roehrig asked why we supported the one percent fund that was proposed ten years ago by the Charter Commission and I don't think I answered you fully because I said that we supported it because it had been in the Code where it had been suspended and then we decided that we need to have it in the Charter where it could only be undone by a vote of the people. So we said do it at one percent and then two years later at the next election we brought it forward at two percent which is what is existing today, so maybe that explains a bit better. So the two percent land fund started when public, the Trust for Public Lands did a survey of Hawai`i County residents. This is an explanation why it's two percent and not one percent. A large majority of residents were polled and they said they wanted two percent. Sammie Stanbro who I think is here, donated the money to TPL (Trust for Public Lands) for this survey. This was back 2004, 2005, so this was a long time ago. The Save Our Lands Citizen's Committee petition initiative drive collected 9,600 signatures from April to July. Now, on this island, traditionally there has been 100,000 people who are registered to vote, only 30,000 of that— one-third roughly, actually vote. So, if you have almost 10,000 people that are behind this legislation then that is one-third of the actual voting public. It is an interesting statistic because you can see why 63% of people show up at the polls and vote for this and we do plan on mounting a campaign, hopefully to vote for what you in your great wisdom will put on to strengthen the land fund. So, but, Connie Kiriu and County Council Lincoln Ashida under Mayor Kim's last administration disqualified almost 6,000 signatures for leaving off place, street, or road, or if a husband and wife used ditto marks for their address when signing under each other, or if the year was left out, they were disqualified. Now, make note that we collected signatures from May to July. It wasn't like it was the end of the year or it lapsed over into another year. Despite the corporation counsel submitting confusing ballot language using double negatives, the amendment to the Code passed 63%. Then in 2008 Mayor Kim and County Council suspended deposits to the fund. In 2010 the Charter Commission put it on the ballot again at one percent after we tried our darndest to get it on at two percent and then in 2012 again we got every, we put it back on the ballot as a Charter Amendment at two percent which is what is in the Charter today. CHR. ADAMS: Please summarize. MS. HECHT: So, we ask you to vote no on CA -7 that will gut the two percent land fund. There is much work to do and we ask you to vote for CA -9 to strengthen the land fund program and at your next Charter Commission meeting we will be bringing forward changes to the maintenance fund. Thank you very much. Page 18 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much. If I could ask Mr. Warshauer to come up and be prepared for testimony. Ms. Wille. MARGARET Communication No. 24 -Proposal No. CA -7, Proposal No. CA -9, Communication WILLE: No. 20 -Proposal No. CA -6, Communication No. 19 -Proposal No. CA -5, Communication No. 17 -Proposal No. CA -3, and Communication No. 15 in support, opposition, and commenting. MS. WILLE: Yes, good afternoon and I made quite a few suggestions so I am going to move quite quickly through them if anyone has questions, I am always available to answer. And let me just say that I did work on amendments back in 2010 including drafting the preliminary, the conservation of natural and cultural resources which I see as promoting what we are trying to preserve in terms of the natural environment. And that is basically looking at our island in terms of a public trust for both the environment, natural beauty, and cultural resources. Okay, I am going to start with Communication No. 20, CA -6, which has to do with the authority of the Police and Fire Commission. I agree with the proposal that was made to, for the commission to be able to discipline the police chief and the same would be in the fire chief, fire commission, I do think that there should be a provision also to that section 7-2 that would provide that no new members of the commission shall be former police officers. I think that it should be more independent group and not where there is a crew of retired police officers. With respect to Communication No. 14, that's CA -2, Section 3-7, about meetings of the Council, the main thing there was having regularly scheduled meetings on both sides of the island. I actually felt that an exception should be made when the meetings have to do with where their presentation by the department heads during the budget periods when they are pulled from their offices. If they are brought over to Kona, that means a lot of lost work time and sitting there and we go through very long meetings during that time. I don't think that those should be necessarily matched in Kona. 1 also am not sure that the second meeting in December, I think only one meeting in December is required. I didn't find that really worth the amount of time for that meeting. I ain not sure I listed Communication No. 23, CA -8 but I would say that I am not opposed to the four- year terns. I found—I think there are pros and cons. I totally understand where Ms. Ford is corning to. I feel that one could streamline and relax the recall procedures better and address that if you have got lame Council members. At the same time I found with the two-year terms, if you were to look back while I was on the Council, you would see that in the second year of the term, I would say a large majority of the bills, substantive bills that came up were mine. I did not take a lot of time out for campaigning, and as a lot of all of those other Council members said well, see what the result was, but I think, so you know, you do have choices but I think we are trying to put our money where it is best used and I am not sure that that makes a difference. Again, I think there should be provisions, ways to remove people that are not doing their job, and at the same time, I think that we have to be more cost efficient and not have people where they are just Page 19 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 learning the job for the first year and then they turn around and have to feel that they have to start campaigning for the whole second term or not just campaigning, but sort of placating and doing things for special interests, I gotta do this for this, I can't bring up the ag, close the ag loop tax hole because that would... how am I losing votes. I think that it would make for more independent Council members. At the same time, I think that we do have to have provisions so that we are not having Council members that should be removed. Okay, I am now moving to Communication No. 19, which was on the auditor, that is section 3-18. Of course I agree with that change. I also believe that there should be a provision, a change in that same section that says the audit plan shall not disclose which specific agencies, funds, programs, etc. would be selected for an audit in the coming year. That just does not make sense to me. So that we announce to each place and this, this is the year you will be audited. If you do an audit, you are supposed to go in. I mean we want to have the people trust that we are doing things fairly and not somethings been done wrong, there is plenty of ways that money is misused and easily done and is just a matter of common sense. And let me just say, in general, I did bring up a number of amendments while I was on the Council and there was a general sense among the other Council members, Margaret, unless it is an emergency, you really ought to wait until it gets to the regular meeting, so I saved some of the things that I was, that I had worked on back then, or was interested in, so these are a number of these are things that I have had on my mind for a long time. Then on Communication 17, CA -3, revising 6-8.3 with a focus on climate change and resiliency. I certainly support that. I felt that the Commission really should be a part of the Research and Development Department as a separate division. I don't think one needs to have a whole other department head, but I think that including doing, I added some different provisions in here and how that person would be helpful. I don't think that you can depend on the department heads to really be spearheading such a critical issue as what climate change things go on. I think that you really need people with expertise to be assisting them. I added in here just on that same provision a division of grant writing. We do a very poor job of grant writing and getting funds and I think right now there are a lot of money available in areas such as climate change and addressing this that could be done. And, I just, you can say okay, they are already working that in Research and Development but it is weak and I am just going to give one quick example. At one point I went in there with a proposal that was for $900,000 and this was before I was on Council and I said this is for resiliency in the event of rural disasters and I said we sort of satisfy all of these criteria and I think we would do a really great job. Would you help me on this and I will help put this in and they said how long do we have to answer it, and I said three months, and they said that is not enough time. We don't have time to do it. And, so, while I was in Council I did spend time on putting together grant options and getting it out to people in my community that they used a lot of, and we actually got some kind of award that we were getting the most grants and putting things out so I just bring that up Page 20 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 as part of really amending that provision, I also am submitting this, that I think that we should have a Department of Agriculture and Resiliency. I wrote it up here. I think that this should be the area that we as a County, we should be doing everything that we can. Again, I spoke about this at one time previously and it was well that the research and development they do it and they are on it, but it is not, and you really need in an area like agriculture, you need a leader. You need someone that is there and how do we integrate this and how do we have a mission. And you can tie that all into greenhouse emissions, but you have got to have people really focused on it whether it has to do with compost, getting compost out where that pulls out the CO2 that makes undermines drought, there's just so much that we can do on so many levels on that area. Okay so I am going to move on now to the CA -7 and CA -9, the Public Access. I take sort of a different position then cutting the funds or just adding one person. I think that we ought to, I feel that these are very undervalued assets and that this should be like using these assets, these lands, should be, we should view them as extremely valuable economically and that we ought to be looking at how, along the line of CA -9 but expanding that so that like adding in that one of the provisions is that we promote and enhance nature based outdoor recreation and education. And I don't think that it should be limited to one staff. I think that basically we should be paying for all of the ripples of the costs of this and that I think that it is really provided here and I think that person should be out, we need people to be out exploring opportunities to acquire lands and easements and getting trails. I just look at Waimea. I sought to get you know, trails up to the forest which is really provided for as far as I am concerned in our Constitution, and it was well Margaret we can't do that. We just don't have funds. And then we buy, we have easements for lands where there are trails but then because we only get an easement rather than purchasing it, we can't, you can't use that easement to get matching federal funds. People come to Waimea, there is no place to hike you know, what do we do? There is just so many opportunities if we were to put trails around protecting and preserving and ag land we could use some of these areas for Community gardens. They are just such a valuable resource. So I would focus on how one better utilizes this in terms of our economy on many levels. I would also try and streamline costs such as where it is minimum, giving it on a quarterly basis, I would make an annual basis which cuts a lot of administrative costs. And then on Communication No. 15, which is sort of, do you have anything else that you want to say. On the general plan, which is Section 3-15, I'm just trying to incorporate the whole idea of community health and environmental health in terms, and aligning it with what we worked on for the general plan up until 2006, generally the attitude is that our County has no obligation in terms of environmental health until the case of Kelly vs. Oceanside and so I think those things are important in looking at the big picture. And community health is something that we have always said that the state deals with health and it should be both. On redistricting committee, commission,1 think it would be more useful Page 21 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 to have the meetings that are, the many meetings once you have a draft. People can look at something rather than looking at nine meetings with blank sheets. I didn't find a lot of people came to those. I do think that at the, I just mention at final meeting of, and this is Redistricting Commission, that it should be that if someone feels that there has been a change during that last meeting that was for adjusted for favoritism or penalizing, they should be able to raise it and have another meeting and that is really, came out of the meeting where at the last ten seconds of the last meeting them someone came up and suggested let's draw this line around Fresh Onishi's block so that he isn't having to go against Yoshimoto and since that was everyone knows that eleventh hour you can sort of do things and I just, I think that the Cost of Government Commission while I was on Council, I didn't feel that that was really utilized, best utilized whatever funds are being done there and I think that if what I put in is say every couple of years, you have an outside consultant and taking a look at things and have it somebody more objective. On the Planning Director and that section, I am just trying to memorialize the roles that we have given by, in our statute to the Community Development Plan. I have also taken out some transitional clauses that I don't, that are no longer necessary. On the planning commission's I put in the preference for the diverse groups. At one point where a number of developers were being put on one, I was told Margaret, it doesn't matter, there is nothing here saying that we need to look to diversity of background, and that really goes to the Board of Appeals. I don't think that you want to be looking necessarily for people that are in the development planning business. Environmental Management Commission, I just added sort of adding which they're really doing right now, looking at protection of our natural resources at the same time they are doing otherwise, and in terms of the Prosecuting Attorney, I put in to establish one or more ombudsmen offices and that is a program that's worked very well in the past and... CHR. ADAMS: Please summarize on this Ms. Wille. MS. WILLE: Okay, so just, I will just mention on boards and commissions, I have tried to put provisions so we don't end up with a lack of quorum on many of them and the same thing of the Board of Ethics trying to empower them and give that more representation. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much for your testimony. If I could ask Karen Clarkson to come up to the table. Mr. Warshauer. RICK Communication Nos. 19 and 24 in support and Communication Nos. 21, WARSHAUER: 23, and 25 opposition. MR. WARSHAUER: Good afternoon Commissioners. Thank you for the time to offer my comments. I am a commissioner on both the PONC and the Legacy Lands Conservation Commission, but I am not giving comments in their regard. I have come to address two of the communications, number 21 and 24. I am first Page 22 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 addressing 21 which proposes CA -7. 1 oppose the adoption of CA -7. The PONC process and its sister procedures in three other counties work with their statewide counterpart, the Legacy Lands Conservation Program. They are all extremely popular and vital programs. They are popular because they are the people's small part of government where residents can have a big say in saving from development, some of the wahi pana that they cherish. Resident's nominate lands and advocate for them at the meetings of the commissions and the commissions evaluate, rank, and recommend the applications that have the best merits and the greatest chances to proceed to acquisition. The commissioners that evaluate applications are not career politicians or bureaucrats but they are appointed citizens just like you. The larger the amount of monies entering the PONC fund and the more the people's places can be saved from development. Do not lower the percentage of monies entering the fund or try to cap it. I just returned from the Legacy Lands Conservation Commission's deliberations for this year's awards. There were powerful testimonies from members of the public identifying the importance of particular wahi pana to them. There were new coalitions of motivated public that formed to advocate for and malama such lands. You do not get such dedication from government by itself. You know that. There were quieter applications where the importance of biological, scenic, and cultural values spoke for themselves. It was inspiring and rewarding to participate in this as a plain citizen on this Legacy Lands Conservation Commission. As is generally the case in most years, Hawai`i County is a recommended recipient of a generous award from earmarked state funds for a property important to our people. The top ranking applications all had sizable matches from other sources. The PONC program was the recipient of one of these, offering to the state as the PONC's match, about half of the nearly three million dollar acquisition cost. Neither program could afford it alone without the match unless it passed over many other qualified ranking applications and some of this happens already because the funds for purchasing lands are already inadequate for the demand. Each acquisition of the acquisition programs has a provision where and here it is called the restrictive covenant where the land must be protected in perpetuity and other match partners expect the same. Should CA -7 become law and the commitment to keep perpetual interest in lands be lost, the PONC program would no longer be likely to be awarded such matches and be severely curtailed by this provision alone. Funding partners expect public funds that are used for perpetual protection to be used for such. To change the PONC commitments to allow the sale or other transfers of the acquired lands is just disingenuous to the partners and to the people. And today's `dina is just real estate environment driven by ever increasing speculative investment by offshore buyers. The ability of the PONC to acquire properties that are important to our residents is already diminishing daily. This ability of PONC funds to leverage more matches is essential. Don't pull its plug Page 23 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 by eliminating its permanent nature. The argument that the restrictive easement causes formidable maintenance issues for the County is also spurious. The maintenance fund is there for this purpose as our management partners associated with many of the acquisitions. CHR. ADAMS: If I could ask you to summarize please. MR. WARSHAUER: Commissioners should visit Kawa and examine the applications like that for Kahi Pali to see this and if you want to remove the management burden, remove Parks and Recreation from the management. You site the Maui process for their public land acquisition but I fear that you may be taking it out of context. Maui supports a process capable of purchasing high cost, high value wahi pana. I urge you to contact their Senator Kalani English and the County Council members directly to gauge their support for the process and need for base funding and snatch capability. All in all, CA -7 is a poisonous arrow aimed at the heart of the people's PONC program. Instead of destroying the capabilities of the PONC fund and process, you should be finding ways to streamline the process to keep the money flowing in to the fund and to further enable the public to step up to protect and malama even more the wahi pana that means so much to us all. If some of your Charter Commission charges to find ways to better balance the County's budget and thus hire more cops as in your illustration, I recommend that you don't take it from the people's PONC program or bemoan reduced tax base, but instead recommend increasing the property tax assessment on the highest end properties used for vacation homes and resorts by off island owners that can better afford the elevated assessments. CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Warshauer, thank you. MR. WARSHAUER: Okay, and I am now addressing the next proposal, CA - CHR. ADAMS: You've already done your two, you already went through two three minute periods. You did six minutes. MR. WARSHAUER: Okay, I support CA -9. I support it. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. MR. WARSHAUER: Thank you, for the time. CHR. ADAMS: Could I ask Mr. Dwight Vicente please to come forward to the table. Karen Clarkson. KAREN Communication No. 21 and Communication No. 24 in opposition. CLARKS ON: MS. CLARKSON: Hi. I am Karen Clarkson. I live in Pa'auilo Mauka and I am Page 24 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 here to speak for saving our lands and honoring the wishes of our citizens who have signed petitions and supported land to be purchased and it is before they are lost. We gathered almost 10,000 signatures as Debbie said when we did the first campaign and it was a wonderful experience to meet people and realize how much it was important to them to have land saved for future generations. Public land is our legacy for generations to come. We believe it is critical that we save our land before it is all privatized, degraded and inaccessible to the public. Some developers have failed to take care of the `aina an example of this is the failure of Waikaloa resort to protect the petroglyph fields. They have watered their golf course and made it possible for weeds and trees to grow in the field and it breaks up the vegetation, breaks up the lava. Many smaller developments are problematic too. Many property owners have obtained subdivision developments along the ocean adjacent to a forest or a historic trail. Too many of them later block the easements or encroach upon them and get away with it because the County will not enforce the conditions of the subdivisions. Some of them are even impassable because of the difficult terrain or the loss you know where a cliff where some of it collapses. The planners don't even look at the land to realize that the easement they are requiring is useless. The only way to preserve our important lands and our easements is for the County to purchase important lands and allow responsible entities to manage and protect them. Thank you very much. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much for your testimony. If I could ask Gary Harrold please to come up to the table. Mr. Vicente. DWIGHT VICENTE: Communication No. 10.1, Communication No. 21, and Communication No. 24, commenting. MR. VICENTE: Good afternoon, my name is Dwight Vicente. I am representing Hawaiian Kingdom. On approval of the minutes, I reserve the right to clarify any of my statement I had made in the past. Communication No. 10.1, the election problem we have here, goes way back to the amendment to the constitution or the forced constitution on King Kalakaua, 1887. Where it was required that you be a U.S. citizen to vote here and it still exists today if you read the voter registration requiring one to be a U.S. citizen. Most people here are not U.S. citizens. They were not naturalized to one of the 13 states. Nor are they 14 amendment citizens, federal citizens, former slaves in the 13 slave states, and under Article five of the Northwest Ordinance that's the limits of the 14th amendment. Moving on to Communication No. 21, there are no public lands here. Under the Mahele, the lands are either crown or government lands all subject to native tenant rights. You hear a lot of times people talking about public access, what about native access under the Mahele and lands are not purchased or privatized. It is all under the Mahele. Its lease lands. Under King Kalakaua, 2.4 million acres of lands were leased for 25 years. Those leases were subject to by the lessee as a quiet title. They claimed to own the land and that is the problem we have Page 25 Hawai`i County Charter Comrnission-6 December 14, 2018 today. Those lands are claimed by individuals whether it be plantation or ranchers to own the land and the 1.8 million acres the Republic of Hawai`i consists of U.S. citizens ceded it to the United States in 1898 by joint resolution. These lands later under the 1900 Organic Act became, in 1920 became Hawaiian Homes Land which is based on the Northwest Ordinance. You got a blood quantum and homestead programs. In 1959 those lands were transferred to the territory of Hawai`i which as admitted into the Union as a state which it is not. They only could admit a state into the Union. Here the territory of Hawai`i was admitted to the Union as a state and those 1.8 million acres were illegally sold or reduced to 200,00 acres only called Hawaiian Home Lands and all subject to the Northwest Ordinance which its limit is article five. The most recent case, well, you got Cy vs. Clinton and most recently Cy vs. Trump, September, 2018. They all cite the Article Four, Section 3, Clause 2 which is limited to the Northwest Ordinance Article 5 only, the political question. The question here is the Hawaiian Kingdom. We are totally separate from the United States. The United States only has 13 states, Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3. There is no amendment. How they have been getting away with all of this is illegal treaties based on the Northwest Ordinance. The Reciprocity Treaty of 1875 was not signed by King Kalakaua, nor was it signed by the U.S. President under Article 2, Section 2, Clause 1. It was done by the three stooges. Three United States citizens who did not have authority under the U.S. Constitution to represent the United States in a treaty, nor the Hawaiian Kingdom. You got Fish, Allen, and Carter. The same goes with Japan's constitution after World War II, or I should say the treaty. It was done by General McArthur on the battleship, U.S. Arany General McArthur had no authority to sign an unconditional surrender on the battleship at Tokyo Bay and he also wrote Japan's Constitution which still exists today. Nowhere in the U.S. Constitution will you find that except they have been stretching the Northwest Ordinance under Article 4, Section 3, Clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution to do all kinds of wonderful things that's illegal like signing, doing illegal treaties, occupying foreign countries and so forth. Back to the lands here, the crown and government lands. These are not public lands. You don't have public trust doctrine. It does not apply here. But these lands are only leased out and right now land speculation, they are doing land speculation under the Northwest Ordinance. With that I will end with the Queen's protest of January 17, 1893 against U.S. Minister Stevens that has yet to go to the U.S. Supreme Court, Article 3, Section 2, Clause 2, original but limited jurisdiction, and the other one is the illegal application of the Northwest Ordinance to this Kingdom through a Reciprocity Treaty of 1875. It wasn't signed by either the King Kalakaua or the U.S. President. I will leave you a copy of the Reciprocity Treaty to make this a part of the record. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. If I could ask Sammie Stanbro to come to the table. Mr. Harrold. GARY HARROLD: Proposal No. CA -7 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. Page 26 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MR. HARROLD: Hello thank you for being here and listening to all of this excellent testimony. My name is Gary Harrold. I am a lifetime member of the Sierra Club and I speak for myself. I am opposed to CA -7 and strongly support CA -9. Robert Kennedy said the value of open space and the environment and environmental vitality of a land is directly proportional to the economic strength and ecological integrity of a culture and of a society. The trees on all this open space land are sequestering carbon. We have a major emergency worldwide, I am sure you've heard of it, it's called the climate crisis, rising sea levels, it is happening everywhere. We need to strengthen the two percent land fund. Thank you for listening. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. If 1 could ask William King to come to the table. Ms. Stanbro. SAMMIE STANBRO- OLSEN: Proposal No. CA -7 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. STANBRO-OLSEN: It's actually Stanbro-Olsen but I look at all of you, I've been on.... CHR. ADAMS: Is your microphone on? MS. STANBRO-OLSEN: Okay, it is now. Okay. Okay, it is now. Okay. I look at you all and 1 have been on commissions before for Harry and I know that he picks people because they are passionate and they are smart and you have heard a lot today and 1 am speaking against the CA -7 and I am in favor of the CA -9. You've heard a lot of things said and I really am trying not to repeat anything because I think it gets, you know, it gets boring after a while, but you are all here for a reason and you are here because Harry has expressed his feelings and Debbie gave some really good background. Yes, I paid for a study done. It was an off island study, it was this thick, Trust for Public Land insisted on it before we went into this whole thing. It cost $11,000. That was a big study done and the study told us that even, that almost exactly how the voters voted they would vote and we were blown away. I asked for one percent, maybe two, everybody carne back on that study overwhelming with two percent. I was going to be happy with one. The people voted three times and they said two percent. A lot has to do with the size of the island like you have heard but you know when 1, I love Harry, we were sitting together, he is talking about the County lands. The reason why we started this whole thing is because Harry said to us, we don't have any money as the County to buy Honu'apo and so my son went to work and raised 3.6 million dollars to take 360 acres of prime coastal Ka`u land and make it into a public park which is beautifully taken care of by the Friends of Honu` apo at this time. Harry did say to my son if you do this, I will find sorne money in the County to help finish off if you are short and so my son went back to Harry and I don't know where Harry found it, but he came up with like $100,000 and so that is how the County has Honu`apo. That is the only way they got Honu`apo. I worked with Page 27 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 Harry in Kohanaiki. Kohanaiki is very rare. We worked for a year with the owners and we had great owners. Harry worked on that, we worked with the opposition people over in Kona and we got that to happen, but you don't see Kohanaiki happening anywhere else in all of Hawai`i. I would venture that that is a rarity and it is because we put the time in the effort in to make that happen. It was great. It doesn't happen often. The other thing I wanted to mention is that you know we have had the history, Debbie mentioned it, problems with the people that want to control the amount of money that is in the County and getting, you know, turning down the votes that you know that, I am not going to go into that, it's boring but it was a lot of hard work that the people spoke and that is what you as commissioners are here for. You are at the Mayor's (inaudible), but you are here for the people of this island and 1 am probably going to miss something, but 1 just didn't want to duplicate what everybody has said. The obvious things that the Army, the state people, are not going to fund something if they think that you are going to turn around and sell it to someone else. Another thing that the voters did not vote for is bathrooms, buildings, and roads. They voted for open space, not for anything else and you know we need to keep that in mind. If this is what the people said in their vote, we want to stick with that. They also you know, I just yeah, I ain going to miss something but mainly 1 think what you need to hold in your minds as your job doing this, is what did the people ask for, what did the majority of the people ask for. The other thing, I am going to go to CA -9, we should have done this in the very beginning but what do we know? This is all grassroots. I mean Debbie and 1, we made signs. We didn't have them printed up. We painted and made signs in the beginning. We didn't know what we were doing in the beginning, but we had a lot of grassroots support. We should have probably put the person that worked on this project into the project but we didn't know. We trusted Harry. I mean we even trusted Harry so much we didn't, we said hey, Harry, if you need this money for you know a hurricane or whatever, you know, you can take from this fund. In the beginning that is how it was and so they trusted that a good person would be put in that was passionate about the land and that would do a good job for us. He got a guy that had been retired, he pulled him back in, the guy sat at a desk, he didn't answer phones, he didn't really do a lot. He wasn't passionate. You guys are all passionate about something and that is why you are sitting here in front of me. This guy was not passionate about anything. He didn't do the job. It backed up and backed up and then the people that took over it were doing it not even part-time, like a third of part-time and it as you have heard, it takes a lot of time to put this all together and so, what I want to say to you is that we need a person in there that's passionate about land, that's paid for by the two percent and that knows the job and gets it done and also works with the Trust for Public Land. The Trust for Public Land over in Oahu puts away thousands of acres for ag, for everything conservation, for everything, and conservation lands can be sold. State conservation lands can be sold all over the place. We lock the land into conservation and so what this person would do is work with Trust for Public Land Page 28 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 who gets the Army, who gets Legacy Lands, who gets all of the other people involved and private people, we could purchase huge amounts of property with what we have if we have a person there that knows that they are doing and it makes sense. We should pay for it. It shouldn't be somebody in the County. Again, thank you guys for what you are doing and I really appreciate it and we just need to be positive. We need to make this island even better than it is. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. If I could ask Kai McGuire to please come to the table. Mr. King. WILLIAM KING: Proposal No. CA -7 in comment. MR. KING: Is this on? CHR. ADAMS: Yes. MR. KING: I am William King and I'll be terse. I am a shore fisherman and a member of three fishing clubs and just this past year I have seen three accesses blocked to the shoreline in East Hawai`i. Three. When you drive from Kapa'a to Kawaihae, you'll see numerous gates gone up blocking shoreline access there. The same along the Puna shore. That said, I strongly depose any reduction of the PONC and hope you will take me seriously. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. If I could ask, I apologize, I am sure I will get this wrong, Phaethon Keeney, thanks, Mr. McGuire. KAI MCGUIRE: Conununication No. 21 in opposition and commenting. MR. MCGUIRE: Thank you commissioners, thank you staff members. My name is Kai McGuire, I am a lifelong resident of Ka`u. 1 am speaking in my capacity as Chairman and co-founder of Na Maino 0 Kawa. In full disclosure we have received PONC. We have been awarded PONC grants over the past three years and I personally do not receive any of those funds per the language in the maintenance provision. Thank you to the commissioners for all of the hard work on this matter. After looking over the ad hoc committee report, I am here to provide testimony in opposition to CA -7 and in support of CA -9. I am going to refer to the recommendations directly from that ad hoc committee report, so recommendation one, we feel that comparing Hawai`i County's two percent land fund to other county programs and lowering our appropriation percentage is frankly inappropriate because first of all, Hawai`i County citizens approved this measure at the ballot box, thus our higher appropriation rate reflects the will of the Hawai`i County residents and the Charter Commission should respect their decision. Page 29 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 Two, while other County Charters can certainly provide examples for alternatives, our charter provisions are not correlated to the provisions in other County Charters. Third, Hawai`i County's Charter is tailored to serve the needs of Hawaii County which are unique and distinct from those of the other counties and not to mention those seem to be struggling with over development, ecological degradation, and exponential loss of open space and public access. Finally, Hawaii County is drastically larger than the other counties so our capacity to preserve PONC lands is significantly greater. With respect to recommendation two, placing a cap on the PONC fund could prevent the County from purchasing particularly valuable parcels most in need of preservation. For example, Pohue Bay is priced at 18 million. The Kaiholena parcel acquisition was over 10 million, the fund only has 16 million right now and the total purchase amount to date is almost 30 million so if an especially valuable parcel comes on the market, the PONC fund needs to be able to cover the purchase price because PONC fund is only two percent of the property tax, any fluctuations in property tax revenue are reflected across the other 98% as well, so if the County has a high revenue year, the PONC fund should benefit accordingly. If property taxes are down, the PONC fund will equitably suffer, so the provision is proportional and fair as written. With respect to recommendation three, what is being referred to as the perpetuity clause, these types of restrictive covenants are the primary mechanism for insuring real estate interests are not transferred on a whim by subsequent owners. If any of us wanted to leave land in perpetuity for our grandchildren, this is the same language we would use to insure our children don't sell it off to make a quick buck. In the context of the PONC program, these restrictions are intended to prevent liquidating invaluable public assets in the event of temporary budget shortfalls or serving political pressures and special interests. The vigorous process involved in selecting and purchasing these lands insures that not only the most important parcels are purchased but because these parcels are deemed too important to leave on the market. Restrictive covenants are entirely appropriate in this context. With respect to recommendation four, this recommendation is extremely vague. It does not specify how the maintenance fund would be amended to quote facilitate the maintenance and improvement of the lands. However, considering that recommendation, in light of Finding C, it seemingly implies the committee is recommending removing the prohibition on construction of facilities and infrastructure. Kawa is a perfect example of how PONC lands can be improved and maintained without conventional bathrooms, waterlines, parking lots, and storage facilities. This prohibition directly furthers the protection and preservation policies underlying this program. Without that prohibition, we end up with the same problems that face traditional County parks like Punalu`u, Kolekole, and all the other spots where people take advantage of the amenities to the detriment of the space and its ecosystem. Page 30 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 With respect to recommendation five, it is basically an amendment that seems to provide the explicit language to implement these changes. Na Mamo O Kawa believes it is not appropriate for the commission to unilaterally circumvent the residents of Hawai`i County who had ample opportunity to review the language they approved during the election and this raises constitutional concerns under the Federal and State Constitutions with respect to the doctrine of separation of powers. Some of you may have already made up your minds on this but I would like to point out that even if the PONC fund is lowered to half percent, there will be a voter backlash. Even if the fund receives this increase for a year or two, the next initiative might be three percent or five percent and given the sentiment of Hawaii County residents and the high premium that we place on preservation, open space, natural resources, and conservation, that ballot measure would likely pass. So whatever interests are supporting these changes, they might be shooting themselves in the foot in the long run and I just wanted to point that out. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. If I could ask Mr. Replogle to come to the table. Ms. Keeney. PHAETHON Proposal No. CA -7 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. KEENEY: MS. KEENEY: Mahalo Commission members for reviewing this very important matter. I apologize in advance, I am not so good at public speaking, but I am here showing up for the land cause this particular issue is very important to me. I am very inspired by the fact that there is a two percent fund in the first place. That makes me so much more hopeful for where things are going and I am not one of the many great people in this room or people today in Kona as well who helped form and guide this fund into creation, but I am just one of the public who voted for it multiple times and I want to express that this is the sort of legislation that gives us hope and engages the future of Hawai`i. It allows us to put our hands on as community members, on to the land that we as a community can steward and when I work with people at Pohaha 1 Ka Lani the Kauaakea parcel above Waipi`o. I am so inspired to see what the community has done there. 1 am so inspired by what I see at Kaiholena and much of the Kohala coastline. There is nothing like the you know, the sight of open space and the untouched beauty of Hawai`i and I appreciate Mayor Kim's statements on Kohanaiki. It is a beautiful place and they have done a good job there but it is nothing like the Kohala coastline where we have no development in certain areas and I can only hope that we have more of that preserved along our coasts and also up Mauka as well. I loved Margaret Wille's statements about community gardens and better public access trails. I think that we would see huge economic benefit if we went in that direction. I have been to many other places around the world that do have better trail systems and have you know islands, the canary islands in Spain, they have a similar ecosystem as us, similar size, mountain observatories, very many similarities and the one main difference when I go there is I see the public access Page 31 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 trails and open space has been preserved far better than here and the tourism as a result and the appreciation and ownership of the land and the stewardship of the land is that much more engaged and I feel like we can really do that. I myself with the Kohala coastline, you know, I visited maybe nine or 10 times this year and have taken out bags of trash each time. Multiple bags of trash with my other friends who go with me to be in these places that you know, are very rare these days and I don't want to continue fighting. I feel like you know, I showed up for the meeting about the `Anaeho`omalu proposed development in Kona that happened last year and these sort of places are too precious and we have to protect them now. They are not going to be there in the future if we allow the development to keep taking them from us. So I just want to say you know, there's so many things on the horizon for the people of the next generation, the youth that I am working with and am part of the community... CHR. ADAMS: Please summarize. MS. KEENEY: Community with, and climate change, you know, social justice, there is so many issues and we already took care of this one. You know, the two percent fund we already took action, so please don't step backwards. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. Is Mr. Replogle here? Alright. Moving on to Diane Ware and if I could ask Aaron Chung to also come to the table. DIANE WARE: Proposal No. CA -7 in opposition, Communication No. 24 -Proposal No. CA -9 in support and Communication No. 20 in commenting. MS. WARE: Hello commissioners. My name is Diane Ware. CHR. ADAMS: I think that you turned it off actually. Go ahead. Okay, there you go. MS. WARE: It has a red light around it. I am here to speak in opposition to Communication No. 21, the CA -7 changes to the PONC land fund and in support of Communication No. 24, CA -9. I think we have had some expert invaluable testimony and witness here from a variety of entities from government, former government officials, from non -profits, from local activists that created this fund, I have been here for the whole, through the whole process, and I urge you not to negate the will and proven will of the people through three votes and not to waste money, tax payer money and time trying to negate this. I think you know it is still highly, probably even higher support for this fund then before because it has been proven to be so valuable and popular and I can't improve on the statements and what has been said. I agree with all of it. I would like to add that these lands, this purchase of lands could be for watershed, very important for the future to protect forests, watersheds, and everything mauka and makai and so for that reason I urge Page 32 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 AARON CHUNG: you to leave the fund as it is and to in support of adding a dedicated person for management so that it is well managed and maintained. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. If I could ask Nelson Ho to please come to the table. Proposal No. CA -7 in support and commenting. MR. CHUNG: Can you hear me? CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Good afternoon and thank you all for your hard work. You know I had a nice discussion earlier before you convened. It was with Sammie Stansboro and Jon Olson, two people whom I have a great deal of respect for and it had to do with this matter. And you know, to be quite frank I wasn't really aware of the specifics of the proposal, I am talking about CA -7, and I am going to give you guys, first of all I just want to say I think most of you know I am on the Hawai`i County Council but I am not here as a Council person. I am just here as Joe Q. Public, a person also who has some experience though making decisions at the County Council level. You know, back in 2004, and that is right when Bobby Jean had just left the County Council, we took up the matter of the public lands two percent and I voted in favor of that, to send it to the County, to the voters as a Charter Amendment. However, the measure failed for lack of a super majority. It was a five to four vote but it didn't get sent to the voters at that time and then subsequent councils sent it up and it was later ratified by the voters. But over the years, having seen it in its application, I have come to reconsider my position. I am not saying that acquiring land, public lands is necessarily a bad thing, in fact it is a good thing. But when I look over this, and this is the first time I have seen this, you know there is a lot of talk about a cap, a one percent cap. When I read this, unless I am reading it wrong or the Exhibit A that I have is incorrect, it is not a cap, a one percent cap, it is a minimum. So it actually provides based on my reading, it could go two percent, three percent, or more based on the fiscal condition of the County. But there shall be a one percent minimum. I think this is a sensible compromise to our situation. No other program in the County of Hawai`i occupies this type of priority standing where you can take off right off from our total revenues a certain percentage to acquire certain things whether it be for Parks and Recreation, Police, Public Safety, nothing, only the acquisition of public lands. It is wreaking havoc on our County budget. Back then when I voted in favor of this provision, I said I am in support of it, I think it is a good thing but it will also at some point result in a tax increase. It has to and that is what is going to happen. It is happening right now. So if you like tax increases well then keep it at two percent, but I think we should Page 33 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 have solve flexibility. I think this is not a slap in the face of the grassroots effort that was put forth. I think it was a good thing. It honors that effort. It simply says there shall be some flexibility, so I support this. I just wanted to make sure that I came here because I expected there to be a lot of opposition but I wanted for all of you to hear another perspective on all of this. I thank you for your time. CHR. ADAMS: Thanks for your testimony. Mr. Ho. NELSON HO: Communication No. 21 -Proposal No. CA -7 and Proposal No. CA -9, commenting. MR. HO: Sure, Hello everyone. My name is Nelson Ho. I am speaking today on behalf of myself. First thing, what I would like to do is comment on what Mr. Chung has said. I do not believe that the two percent proposal or what was passed by the public is the cause for any imbalance or unbalancing of our County budget. I think it is and Council member Jen Ruggles brought it up two years ago, it is the unbalanced way in which we are applying our real property taxes. We are taxing more or less what we think is equally across the board rather than what people can afford to pay. There are people with multi-million dollar second homes and parcels which are paying the same amount as somebody on a fixed income relying on social security. So, I disagree with Mrs. Chung's analysis and I think there is ample evidence and suggestions of how to rebalance the County budget elsewhere and I know that is not the topic of this discussion. So I will get back to CA -7 and CA -9 and I think that the people of Hawai`i have spoken and they have looked out for the future and they have looked out at what the island can provide. I think as somebody who has enjoyed outdoor recreation all my life and have hiked on every island, I have kayaked just about the coastline of every island and thoroughly appreciated it. And I want to see future generations have that opportunity. I want to see Hawai`i Island become a magnet for the world to come and enjoy outdoor resources and we of all people of all islands in this beautiful Archipelago have the ability to provide that. On Oahu, squeezed out, Maui, you could fit it in Puna, Kauai is even smaller than Puna okay?, so what do we have left? The Big Island and I think that we can be as magnetic as New Zealand where we, you line up years in advance to get on the Milford Track and enjoy unencumbered wilderness. The Swiss hut system in the Alps, I would love to go on that and you have undisturbed vistas and access to the Mauka lands, beautiful. People from all over the world enjoy that. And I want Hawai`i Island to have that potential for the future. I would like to echo the fact that the will of the people should be respected. This did pass a major fight to get on the Charter, on the ballot, and it passed and I don't think we should strip that away for the financial argument which I do not find to be compelling and just to say briefly, I support CA -9. I think there can be expanded uses of that money for staffing and expand the scope to take care of the lands and we should look at that closely. Thank you very much. Page 34 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your testimony. Seeing no other public testimony or statements from the public, let's take a ten minute recess. RECESS: At 3:39 p.m., the Chair called for a recess. RECONVENE: The meeting reconvened at 3:51 p.m. APPROVAL OF The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business, MINUTES: Approval of Minutes. Vote on Motion Commissioner Springer moved to approve the minutes of To Approve Minutes: November 9, 2018. Seconded by Commissioner Todd and (Approved) carried by the following roll call vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamann, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, and Chair Adams — 8 Noes: None. Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Rice, and Zelko-Schlueter - 3 Excused: None. MR. HENRICKS: Eight votes in favor. CHR. ADAMS: Yes. MR. HENRICKS: Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. MR. HENRICKS: You're welcome. CHR. ADAMS: Eventually I will figure out math. Eleven minus... without objection I would just like to make a comment about the rest of the agenda for today and where I see us going. Hearing no objection. We have a pretty extensive agenda. There are some things that I think we need to get to particularly in Unfinished Business that we moved from New Business, that we weren't able to speak to at our last meeting and so I am aware that all of this is, particularly given the fact that we had a couple of hours of public testimony, statements from the public obviously concerned about various elements of the Charter and Charter proposals, so hearing all of that, it is clear to me at least that we won't get through this entire agenda today even if we try not to drift away, so in any event, I think that we would need to take a look at Unfinished Business. We may not be able to get to New Business and as a result we are probably going Page 35 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 to have another recessed meeting which would take the place of our regularly scheduled meeting on the 11th of January. I don't see us meeting during the period between this meeting and the 11th of January, but what that would mean is that we would then schedule our regularly scheduled meeting in January for the fourth week, the 25th of January. So it would be similar to what we did in October and November, where we had a meeting the second Friday of October, then the fourth Friday of October, and then the second Friday of November, so we would do that again for January into February, okay, so we can talk about that but I just wanted to address that as we move forward cognizant of the time. We don't necessarily have a hard stop at 5:30 p.m. except that I think that we may not be able to hear ourselves think once stuff happens, begins to happen outside, so, thank you for all of that. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. CHR. ADAMS: Let's move on to Communications. Communication No. 1.10, any discussion? Communication No. 7.8, any discussion? Communication No. 10.1, any discussion? Communication No. 11.1, Mr. Yoshimoto do you have anything that you would like to add to this particular item? MR. YOSHIMOTO: Nothing to add. CHR. ADAMS: Any discussion? Thank you for providing that. Communication No. 12.1, on this particular, any discussion on this particular by commissioners? What I would like to do is 1 would ask you to take your calendars out and I would like to take a look at the end of March, beginning of April time period. That was the time period that we in a general kind of way addressed when would be good to have the public hearings. As you are aware, we have a requirement for six public hearings, a minimum of six public hearings in various locations around the island and in looking at when folks were available, the end of March and the, the last week of March and the first week of April appeared to be good times for doing that. Is there anybody that that is a problem for now? Alright. MS. SAQUING: Is that Merrie Monarch week by chance? CHR. ADAMS: No, Merrie Monarch week is the third week weekend of April. MS. SAQUING: Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, having, seeing that nobody seems to have a particular issue. Yes, Commissioner Hopkins. Page 36 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MR. HOPKINS: On the first week of April, Tuesday and Thursday I have you know, all my classes are Tuesdays and Thursdays, so the rest of that week I'm fine. It is just Tuesdays and Thursdays 1 have classes but then you know if it is in the evening I can deal with it. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Thank you. So in conversation with the staff and looking at this with everybody seemingly at this particular point in time being able to make those periods, the idea was to ask the staff to put together times and dates for us to gather in these locations for the public hearings. Now we also wanted to provide commissioners the opportunity if you are in a particular area and you are aware of a particular location, locale that makes sense or that you would like to have the public hearing in that particular locale in the required areas that we have, then please contact our staff, in particular Mr. Henricks to let them know so that they can take a look at the feasibility of doing that as we put this together. And if you could do that before the next meeting which would be, that is before the 11t°'. Okay? Okay, great, thank you. Communication No. 15, any discussion? Communication 17.1? Any discussion? MS. GALIMBA: As far as discussion, I guess would it be okay if we discussed it at the time that we do the, talk about the Charter Amendment? CHR. ADAMS: Yes. Communication 18.1, any discussion? Communication No. 22, any discussion? And Communication 22.1, any discussion? Alright, hearing none, am I supposed to say something about all of those Communications being filed? They are already filed anyway, so, okay. UNFINISHED The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of BUSINESS: business, Unfinished Business. CHR. ADAMS: Let's move on to Unfinished Business. Item No. 1, Communication No. 3, Formation of Ad Hoc Committees. Any discussion? Alright, hearing none, moving on to Communication No. 2, Item No. 2, Communication No. 17, this was postponed at our last meeting. There is currently a motion on the floor to pass Charter Amendment 3 on initial approval and forward it for first reading. Is there any discussion on this particular proposal? Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. So, I have had some time to think about it and take into consideration the response from R & D, I think at this point I would like to amend my own proposal to the effect and I don't know whether I can do this or Page 37 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 whether I should propose it to work with Jon and then bring it before you at the next meeting or if I should just do this verbally now? Is there a preference? CHR. ADAMS: Jon will tell me if I am incorrect about this, but if the idea is to change the wording of the proposal taking in new information, I believe we can, even though we have a motion on the floor, we can table this particular, is table the right term? It wouldn't be to postpone it again. MR. HENRICKS: We are probably going to recess is what I am hearing so table would work because that would put it over here until the 11th, but we may want to hear what the scope of Ms. Galimba's amendment would be before deciding whether or not it needed to be in writing. MS. GALIMBA: Okay, so basically I would like to keep the first part of it which is this the establishment of the Climate and Resiliency Commission and delete the second section which calls for greenhouse gas reporting and reduction requirement. Not that I don't think that I don't think that we should have greenhouse gas reductions but I think that perhaps putting it in the Charter at this point may be premature or not the right way to approach it so that is the essence of the amendment to my own proposal, I would like to make. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: I basically am kind of opposed to the creation of a new commission and instead would want to amend the section regarding R&D and add this to their duties and that is just because of my concerns in terms of manning commissions of the manpower and expense that it costs, and I think the work can be done by staff without having to do it with a commission. That is just kind of where I am corning from. But, I think that the duties definitely should be included in R&D's description. I think that is the appropriate place to have the duties and to insure that they take care of it and coordinate it with the other departments. So that is just you know, my two cents on this but I do want to say that irrespective of what some members of the public seem to think, what we do here is, we are not amending the Charter by our votes. All we are doing is making proposals which we may or may not personally support. We may be introducing them because somebody has mentioned it and we think hey, this should be discussed. Ultimately the people who decide whether this provision or any other provision gets approved and amended is the voters. We are not taking anything away from the voters by discussion and by proposals at this level. On top of that, it still has to go to the County Council for further discussion. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: I would like to agree with Commissioner Leithead-Todd. I think it would be better for this to be part of R&D as a continuous function within the County and not because, commissions are nice but again, it is volunteers and Page 38 Hawaa`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 the other one is here and I think that this is a major issue that needs to be looked at constantly and that it should be put within R&D so we have a staff who could help all the other departments to look at these issues. That is basically my opinion on that one. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Do you have any other items, any other discussion? MS. GALIMBA: Sure, I guess the, I understand the reluctance to have another commission however, and this is not meant to replace the work at R&D, but to help R&D and to be frank to use a cowgirl metaphor, to apply spurs to the efforts because it is such an important issue and also there is a great deal of interest in the public and I have been contacted by people who are very interested in a commission and being part of it, so, that is not saying that it wouldn't be difficult and time consuming to seat a commission, but I think there is interest from people who have expertise in climate change, so appetite for a commission. CHR. ADAMS: Okay thank you. Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: I would say that if this proposal is going to go forward, then I make a recommendation that it have an amendment to house the commission in the Department of Research and Development and make them responsible for providing the staff and taking care of it so that you know, every time Charters have created cormnissions and there has always been a question of which department ends up with the duty of supplying staff and resources and so I think we need to be clear that if we are going to go forward with this proposal to have a Climate Change and Resiliency Commission, the appropriate place and the appropriate staff would be with the R&D department rather than the others, so just a recommendation that there should be some language. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, so, thank you. Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: I am amendable to that amendment to the proposal. CHR. ADAMS: So we are at the place, we are in a motion, we have a motion. The motion is to pass this particular Charter Amendment, we also, if we do that we are doing it without any amendment currently that would talk to that. So you always have the option of making that amendment now. We would have to make the wording proper and we would want all that to be done. We have also had the conversation where we can table this particular Charter Amendment that has the advantage of then seeing all of that that you want to do, including the potential for including what Commissioner Todd was talking about in this as well and then bringing it back up on the 11`1, but that would require an amendment to table it. MS. GALIMBA: A motion to table it. CHR. ADAMS: Whatever I said, yes, a motion to table it. Page 39 Hawai `i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MS. GALIMBA: Alright, so I move to table it until the next meeting on January 11 `l, CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Henricks. MR. HENRICKS: Just lay on the table is sufficient. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Is that something I do, does it matter? Is it a motion? MR. HENRICKS: If you could just clarify for the record as Chair that the motion is to lay the motion to approve CA -3 on the table. CHR. ADAMS: The motion is to lay CA -3 on the table. MR. HENRICKS: Thank you. Vote on Motion Commissioner Galimba moved to lay Proposal No. CA -3 (Comm. No. 17) on To Table CA -3 the table. Second by Commissioner Hopkins and carried by the (Approved): following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano, Hopkins, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, and Chair Adams — 9 Noes: None. Absent: Commissioners Rice, and Zelko-Schlueter - 2 Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: Without objection, I would like to move to Item No. 6, Communication No. 21, which transmitted CA -7 from the, that is the, we do have Communication No. 18, Item 3 that was moved as well. We do have a motion on that as well. Alright, strike what I was saying. Item No. 3, Communication No. 18, transmitting Charter Amendment 4 for initial approval, we have a motion on the floor made by Commissioner Galimba and seconded by Commissioner Zelko to pass Charter Amendment 4 on initial approval and forward for first reading. Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Having seen the Communication from R&D in relation to this proposal, I would like to amend it based on their recommendations so perhaps I should do a similar thing and lay this on the table until the next meeting so that I can work on the language and present it. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Todd? Page 40 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MS. TODD: Looking at proposal 4, I am thinking that it might, that we might be able to take the language from proposal 3 and put it into proposal 4 which would then house everything with R&D, so the Section on Climate Change and Resiliency Commission just to take that language and insert it in the proposed amendment 4, so I am just going to put that out there so we can consider it and then when we take it off the table then maybe we can take a look at amending it in that fashion. Vote on Motion Commissioner Bergin moved to lay Proposal No. CA -4 (Comm. No. 18) on the To Table CA -4 table. Second by Commissioner Saquing and carried by the (Approved): following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamann, Hopkins, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, and Chair Adams — 9 Noes: None. Absent: Commissioners Rice, and Zelko-Schlueter — 2 Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: Alright, without objection, I would like to move to Item No. 6, Communication No. 21, which transmitted Charter Amendment 7. Is there any objection to doing so? Alright, there is a motion on the floor made by Commissioner Hamann and seconded by Commissioner Roehrig to pass Charter Amendment 7 on initial approval and forward for first reading. Before I give the floor to Commissioner Hamann, I would just like to make a comment about Charter Amendment 7 and Charter Amendment 9 and how to, and how we may have a conversation about this. There is, these Charter Amendments are separate Charter Amendments and if there are items that are in, just as Commissioner Todd talked about Charter Amendment 3 and Charter Amendment 4, if there are items in another Charter Amendment that you would like to see in this particular one, so for example, something from 9 that you would like to see in 7, or something from 7 that you would like to see in 9. When we are talking about the particular Charter Amendment, in this case 7, there is nothing wrong with pulling that wording from there as an amendment. When we get to the other Charter Amendment we will deal with that. Again, let's say both of them are approved for some reason right, there is nothing that prevents that from happening as long as by the time we get to our second reading and presenting the Charter Amendments to the Council, that we, that they are in alignment, that we don't have Charter Amendments that would be, if passed, asynchronous from each other, but we don't have to worry about that now. The idea now is to get this information out, much as Commissioner Todd talked about so that by the time we get to public hearings we are being able to understand where the public is on the variety of things that we are talking about. Okay, does that, okay great. Page 41 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 Commissioner Hamano. MR. HAMANO: Thank you Chair Adams. I have read a lot and heard a lot of public testimony against reducing the two percent PONC fund set aside and I accept and I wholeheartedly agree with a lot of the testimony that supports the PONC fund. But again, the question is really at least one of the questions is how much you know, should the County of Hawai`i be required to set aside and your ad hoc committee you know investigated whether the amount of the set aside was appropriate and found that it was too high in light of the County revenues and in light of what other counties allowed. The majority of the ad hoc committee thought that the appropriate set aside should be reduced from two percent to point five percent. CA -7 you know, tries to seek a balance there of setting aside a total of one percent which would include a .25 percent for the maintenance fund. Hawai`i County's two percent set aside for the PONC acquisition fund is more than double the next highest set aside which is Maui County, which has a one percent set aside. There appears to be no justifiable reason to mandate a spending provision in the County Charter which is a non-essential government service that is more than 100% greater than what other counties in Hawai`i provide for. The proposed Charter Amendment which is a one percent set aside for PONC related activity is only the minimum amount that is mandated. There is nothing to prevent the County Council from appropriating more if there is a great need for PONC funds for the fiscal year. And if the public so wishes, it can come to the County Council. But this is a Charter provision and with a Charter provision there is no out out of it and the Council nor anybody else can set that aside unless there is a you know, Charter amendment which comes through a long process or through this process which comes along every ten years. Moreover, while I think it is still a good government public policy to set aside funds to acquire lands for public use as stated in the proposed amendment, we need to be mindful of the fact that Hawai`i County has about 1.3 million acres of land classified by the Hawai`i State Land Use Commission (LUC) as conservation lands. More than half of the land in Hawai`i County is classified by the LUC as conservation land. The proposed amendment to the current PONC provision is a more reasonable and fiscally responsible approach to the PONC related activity. Lastly, though often stated testimony that the voting public approved the current PONC set aside about three straight times is not I think, entirely correct because at least in one of those times, the voting public voted for the one percent. I think that was made clear. There was one time when the voting public voted for the one percent you know. I strongly believe that if the voting public were informed that Hawai`i County's PONC Charter provision of essentially a 2.25 percent set aside from RPT (Real Property Tax) revenues, is over 100% greater than other Hawai`i Counties, that they would approve a lowering of the PONC set aside rate. Page 42 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 Secondly, there is a lot of testimony against removing the no transfer or the requirement of the PONC acquired properties. Your ad hoc committee looked at this and the reason we are taking this out is not to somehow, for some kind of a nefarious reason to sell the land, to put it into the general fund cause which would be clearly illegal and which would be set aside, but the reason for this change is to give the people dealing with PONC funds more flexibility in enhancing the overall PONC program of acquiring lands for public use and freeing their ability to deal with landowners in furthering the goals of the PONC program, and this is what we have you know, learned from our ad hoc committee and our investigation. You know, their hands are tied many times. There is no other County in Hawaii that has the no transfer provision in their PONC Charter terms. And the reason for this I think is simple. Because having such a provision in the Charter provision prevents them from carrying out acquisition and maintenance deals with others that enhances the overall PONC program and you know this is something that was suggested by I believe, when we were in our ad hoc committee, so from the public testimony, the tenor seemed to have been like some of these changes are being made to cut down the PONC program when in fact everything we are trying to do is trying to enhance the PONC program, to liberalize like for example the maintenance provisions because right now they are handcuffed from doing certain things because of the strict provisions in that part of the Charter provision. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Mr. Hamann. Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: In 2003, before leaving the Council, I had staff looking at the provisions of the Maui and the Kaua`i Charters which were at one percent and half percent and based on our assessment of the size of our County what had looked like rapid development and the need to front load purchasing of open space, we had come to the independent conclusion that if we were going to propose something, we needed two percent and the rationale for the two percent is that there are lands that may come on the market may become available that may have a hefty price tag and you wanted that flexibility to be able to pick that property up and part of the rationale for looking at two percent was that if you waited for the money to accumulate at a rate of half a percent or one percent, that you would lose the opportunity to pick up parcels as they came along. So when my staff and I looked at it, we were not concerned about whether the money accumulated and grew to a nice hefty pot at one particular time because part of it too was the idea that you weren't going to do eminent domain. So you needed a willing seller and that is just because it is faster and easier and less expensive, so sometimes there are parcels that people want but the seller doesn't want to sell, so you move to something, you pick low hanging fruit, even if the low hanging fruit isn't necessarily your number one priority, but the idea was that without front loading, in other words purchasing property as soon as we could, that you would lose the opportunity because the momentum to develop a parcel would make it difficult to acquire. You take a look at `O`oma, at some point you know somebody had invested a lot of money into planning to try and develop the Page 43 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 property, so by the time you are aware of development plans it is very difficult to get in there and pick up the property and stop the development because it is built up some steam and yet it may be the very property that has the most value to people. And, I admit that my feelings about the acquisition of open space and the two percent, and unfortunately I left the Council and couldn't introduce it. But the reason I thought we needed more money is I lived on Oahu for 12 and a half years and there isn't much left to buy if you wanted to preserve it, other than the lands that are owned by the military and have therefore been saved from development. And I had the great fortune to be able to hike the Kohala coastline and the Kona coastline with Slim Tyler from Kona back in 1971 before Kua and Makalawena, before there was access, the only way you could access is if you had a key to one of the gates where you had a four wheel drive road going down to the ocean or you hike in, or you had to come in by boat and it was beautiful and there are areas of the island that I think we should acquire and I don't think we should develop bathrooms. I don't think we should make it easy for people. We need to preserve wilderness. We need to preserve that experience of hiking a coastline as it was a hundred years ago and while I can support putting this on the ballot because I believe people have a right and I think that in the wake of the lava disaster, I think people have some concerns about the budget. 1 would personally vote against it because I personally believe that two percent is the appropriate amount of money. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Todd. Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Okay, well first of all, I just wanted to thank all of the testifiers for their very eloquent and very thoughtful testimony today and like Mayor Kim said, we are all friends and fellow citizens here so there's no enemies. And we all want what is best for Hawai`i Island and you know, we are talking about numbers which is important but I just want to talk about sort of my personal experience of the two percent happening right now which is in relation to Kahilipali Waikapuna which is in the process of being acquired right now and nobody you know, it was under eminent threat of being developed into, you know chopped up into house sites, but it is a priceless cultural treasure because it is where Mary Kawena Pukui spent her childhood with her grandmother and it has got intact, some of the most intact archeological sites on this island. And not only that, it has amazing seabird colonies. It is just a beautiful, beautiful place with huge cultural significance so even though there is many, there is a lot of conservation zoned land, that doesn't mean that there aren't places still that really need this PONC fund and you know, it is not cheap. It is millions of dollars to get this property and on top of that it also has agricultural significance because I graze my cattle on the upper part so this piece of land also provides food for people of the island. And a really important part of the PONC fund is that it leverages other monies and this is the case with this Waikapuna purchase. It leverages state money and it leverages private money so even though it is millions, the County is not providing Page 44 Hawai`i County Chatter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 all the money, so it is a great tool. Not just for conservation but for cultural preservation, our historical heritage, so we do a lot with this PONC fund and obviously I support making it as strong as possible because it is our legacy to our children and grandchildren and our great, great, grandchildren. So just in conclusion, I want to also appeal to our individual commissioners sense of self- preservation because we are probably going to be sitting on our butt listening to two hours of testimony every meeting if we continue down this path. That's all. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Galimba. Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: Thank you. Again, I would like to thank everybody that testified today and I would also like to thank our ad hoc committee. They went and did a lot of work looking at the various options here and what was going on. Two questions, from my perspective there are two important questions on there and one of them they asked who gets to the decision on how much is enough and the other question is when should we be making these decisions? Talk about the first one, I have to agree with a lot of the testimony that the people have spoken on this one. They made a decision on it. I am not saying it was the right decision, but they did make a decision on the two percent and it wasn't that many years ago that they made that decision. The second one is and it goes to the other ones here is the front loading. Once land is developed, and gets pulled out, it is gone and we have not, and there is a whole big list of properties that we have not gotten yet and I think it is better for us, we pay the money up front, we get the things off here. We can always reduce this ten years from now, but I think it is too early in my opinion to reduce it. We need that money. We need to lock up more of these lands and I hate using the term lock up. We need to protect more of these lands such that we don't have to worry about them there and in the long run yeah, I think two percent is a lot of money there, but I don't think that it is at that point right now. In my opinion, I think we still need to keep it at the two percent and let's try to get some more of the really important lands protected in there, but again, like I was saying, I would really like to thank the ad hoc committee, because they did a lot of work on this one and it wasn't just oh lets change things. You know, they really analyzed it well on the things here, but we have differences of opinion on this one. So again, thanks. CHR. ADAMS: Thanks Commissioner Hopkins. Commissioner Saquing. MS. SAQUING: I too would like to echo and mahalo all of the testifiers who carne out, took their time, particularly writing different ideas and suggestions on how to craft the amendments because to me it means how passionate you all are. I would have to agree with Commissioner Leithead-Todd, Commissioner Galirnba, I am all about what is going to be left for my Mo`opuna and my great, great Mo`opuna. I am a Big Island girl. I grew up swimming in the Pi`ihonua where we used to catch cray fish, cannot anymore. And so, what the intent of the Page 45 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 PONC fund is to secure those lands that can just offer that for our future Mo`opuna and people want to visit and see this treasured island. I think it is important to honor all of those who voted in the past to keep the two percent. I agree with that, I agree with what Commissioner Todd said about getting that front load, but also to be ready to have access and to purchase those lands that may come up. To have that funding available. To have people in the community who are looking for matching funds. I think that is the beauty of partnerships with regards to private government non-profit organizations. We can't do this alone from a government side. It needs to be done with everyone in the community and for me, that is what it is all about. It is working in collaboration with everyone in our community to make this whole thing successful so I too would have to disagree with the proposed Charter Amendment but I also want to commend our ad hoc committee because they took an enormous amount of time to research and what that does is it gives us all of the ammunition and information that we need to come to great conclusions and suggestions to move the Charter forward so that the people can make the choice. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Roehrig. MR. ROEHRIG: Thank you. I was on that ad hoc committee. A few comments. The leveraging is still going to exist under what he proposes. It is not disappearing, it is still there. The only change is it is going down in percentage. What he had proposed by far is more functional than what we have now because it uses the money to improve the property. Right now no bathrooms, no trails, no nothing. People can't use it other than to wander around that. The Ala Kahakai is there to some extent but very limited so the money, what he proposes is going to be a lot more functional because it can be able to use this land. You have heard it a few times from, that all the parcels I think the one is Ka`u maybe Waipi`o has got some use, all the rest nothing okay. The pieces of property in North Kohala, there is the beach there, you can use that. The rest of the property, there is no use. It probably makes more sense to use this PONC money to buy easements to get to the beach and use the beach because that is probably the main use. I mean if you look at it, these huge areas of the North Kohala property useless, just useless okay, so the idea is to make it useful for the public and what are those lands good for, the only thing probably are good for are to get to the ocean and it is really limited now, getting to the Ala Kahakai. It is an embarrassment for the Big Island where people can't get to the ocean and use it so you know buying easements would make more sense. I doubt there was any voters that when they voted knew under the state data book that over half this island is already conservation. No one here knew until I heard from Bobby Jean. She thought there was a million acres or something so I went and looked, I phoned up the State guys and they said quotes, Table 6.04 I got it here, I gave it to some of the people out there, the total island is 2.573 million acres, of that is 1.3 million is already conservation. That includes a shoreline areas too. More than half this island is already conservation so I don't know what we are doing with this. PONC is not Page 46 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 disappearing but all we are doing is reducing the percentage which is consistent with the other counties. Let's see what else I have here. Yeah, that will do for now. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thanks Commissioner Roehrig. Commissioner Bergin. MR. BERGIN: Let me offer a little bit of perspective. Certainly the testifiers provided motherhood and apple pie for me. It is exactly the way I felt about my boyhood and my adulthood on this island. But let me share some perspective. As we have Ala Kahakai, we have mountain trails that encircle the entire island and those were means by which thousands of cattle were moved from one place to the other but more importantly that was the route by which an awful lot of the geodetic survey studies were done, a lot of the archaeologic studies were able to be done, so the scientific contribution of having those trails there for probably 200 years if we include the uses of the first people. My family which a bulk of which were boys and now they are men and now they have children. All of my children over the years did those trails on horseback and they are historic family treasures of things that we got to see from the high elevation. The beauteous shot of the big island is getting up as high as you possibly can, even from Hualalai. It is remarkable. One of my summers I couldn't get a ranch job so I worked on a tug boat called the Hilo Packet and we went interisland helping the big ships come in to the bad harbors like Nawiliwili and Kahului. So I got to see the perimeter of all of these islands from offshore, close off shore and I love the ocean but I don't love it nearly as much as I appreciate and I honor the mountain to which my grandchildren and even my present sons will never see ever for the fact that the grand majority of those islands have been encumbered by large trusts, the military, Bishop Estate... you are basically unwelcome to go through there and especially for fear that your horse just might doo doo on its way through there. And it is not so much, I am at a point in my life where I can really spend that many hours in the saddle, but for the fact that my recollection and that of my family and many, many people of my generation that were close to the mountain belabor the fact that it is gone. And now, I am not so sure that this sort of legislation brings any resolution to that and that is not why I would go for or against it, but I do want to say that the ad hoc committee raised some very, very valid points and it is underscored by a business like look at that act. It is putting some teeth into maintaining and I hate, we cannot turn our back on the fact that there is tremendous value, business value in that. And the other aspect of the fact is to go ahead and at least discuss the possibility that maybe that level of contribution of two percent could be adjusted by strengthening that portion that be given to maintenance. I think it is great if there was a single empowered person that would be in charge of that and then give it some degree of spear headedness but as it is right now, I am going to wait and see what does develop but I do want to thank the ad hoc committee because they brought up some points that needed to be looked at no matter what. Thank you. Page 47 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Thanks Commissioner Bergin. Commissioner Roehrig. MR. ROEHRIG: What he proposes again in the proposal it is a minimum only so if the... I don't know, who is in power? Do I know if it is going to be to the County Council or whoever, can increase it. They can increase it to whatever they want to do. All it is is the minimum okay? So in hard times they can drop down, in good times they can make it whatever they want. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba MS. GALIMBA: I just wanted to respond to Commissioner Roehrig's points. So, to the previous, to his previous comments about that there should be some flexibility for the maintenance fund. 1 know that Debbie Hecht and her group are intending to propose some changes to the maintenance fund to allow for some flexibility with that. To help with some of the facilities that might be needed on some of the properties so that I believe can be addressed in a way that is friendlier to the language that currently exists that as so many people have pointed out, has been voted for multiple times by the public so I think that would be a friendlier way to address those issues while respecting the will of the people. And what did you, I am forgetting my second point which is addressing your last comment so I will have to just forget what else I was going to say. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Galimba. Commissioner Hamano. MR. HAMANO: I think Commissioner Hopkins raises you know the best point here. Who should determine what is the amount and after all point five percent, one percent, two percent, you know, it is kind of an arbitrary number. You know, what is the appropriate amount? The Charter Commission is brought alive every 10 years okay and so, you know, this two percent has been on the books for how many years now, eight years now. Okay, so my proposal to the commission is basically, some may disagree with the one percent, some may agree with the two percent, but I am saying why don't we let the people decide? Let this go forward and put it on the ballot and let the people decide. (Utterance from Audience) CHR. ADAMS: Excuse me, we are having a conversation of the Commission. Thank you. MR. HAMANO: If you deny it and kill it now, you deny the people the right to make that choice and that is why we are here in the first place. Every ten years the Charter Commission is enacted and is allowed to review all of the Charter provisions. You know, who makes the decision as to what that number is. Should we circumvent the process and decide for the public what the amount Page 48 Haw ai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 should be or should we let the public decide? I am saying through the Charter Commission, we should allow the public to decide. CHR. ADAMS: Thanks. Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: We have a somewhat, we have basically two issues here. One is the percentage which there is obviously some disagreement on and the second is I think we are and many of the other ones here is there are other issues that you put over here to make it more flexible for doing some things, I don't agree with part of the things that were there, but I think that the process needs to be improved on what we have on there otherwise we do as was stated by Commissioner Roehrig over there, we are landing up with using a term that I used up earlier is that we are locking up property basically to the people who are physically able to go walking up and hike down and to things. I am afraid that if we put it all as it is written right now, it is one package. If the people focused totally on the percentage, the other issues for how to amend, or how to make the process work better, 1 think it is going to get clobbered on that one because they can't separate the two because they are combined and I am not sure how to deal with that one because I don't want to see, but that is my comment right now we have two things combined together here and maybe we need to consider how we can separate them but I am not sure we can. CHR. ADAMS: Point of order. We have lost Kona. Did they fall off? MR. HENRICKS: 1 believe that was intentional because it is past the hours of business there and there is nobody there viewing the meeting. CHR. ADAMS: And we are okay with that? With the Sunshine law? MR. HENRICKS: That is standard operating procedure correct. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Alright. Do we have any other items for discussion? Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: I am just you know to reiterate, I am not opposed to this going forward. You know as a Charter proposal or going to the Council because I think you know, those issues were raised both by the Council as well as by Administration. I just am personally opposed to reducing it from two percent and that is based on a lifetime of watching lands disappear and get developed. I think there are a lot of issues on management and taking care of the properties and accessibility that I think Commissioner Hopkins is correct that we may want to think about whether we bifurcate the issues into two separate proposals. One to just deal with the percentage and one to deal with the other management issues. We have got some time to think about that so that some things that are very good proposals for trying to make it more flexible maybe don't get voted down because Page 49 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 all people are going to concentrate on is whether it is one percent or two percent and lose sight of other proposals within here that are good. Yeah, so, just something to think about and I think that is the last statement that I will have on this. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Todd. Commissioner Galimba MS. GALIMBA: So yes I remembered my response to Commissioner Roehrig's comments and also I think Commissioner Hamano's and that is with all due respect, I think their argument that this is, that one percent is a minimum and that it could be higher is not very realistic given the nature of people budgeting whoever that authority is going to be, if they can do one percent I am afraid that they will probably do one percent. So I think it is very important that if we think that two percent is appropriate at this time for this island, that that should be mandated because that is sort of the nature of the beast. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Roehrig MR. ROEHRIG: Again, it is just, excuse me, it is just a minimum and it is up to the Council. If the Council says we want to have two, three, four, five, they can do it. It is just a minimum. So they are not locked in to do one. If they say oh look at this great piece of property, we want to buy it, they can buy it. Nothing is stopping them. Nothing. This just says a minimum of one percent. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Oh, sorry. CHR. ADAMS: No? Alright. Are there any other items, any other discussion? Commissioner Hamano. MR. HAMANO: Yeah, my last continent is basically again, what Commissioner Hopkins has indicated, who should decide what is the amount? It has been eight years apparently since we have had the two percent. We have come upon now you know, this 10 year Commission, Charter Cominission to look over all Charter provisions and there has been an issue. We had the ad hoc committee investigate the matter, listen to people from the PONC Commission, listen to the Finance Director, listen to Parks and Recreation, you know, and they have made this determination, their findings and they wanted to cut it down to, the majority wanted to cut it down to point five percent. So the question is, there is an issue you know. Is the amount appropriate and all I am saying is we pass this just along so that it can be further discussed and contemplated and allow the people to decide. Page 50 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Any other discussion? This is when I get to say something. I, when I take a look at the Charter Amendment, I have to say that I don't see flexibility in the percentage. It says the Council shall appropriate one percent of certified real property tax revenues and then goes into the 75 and so, if, I believe that there should be flexibility. I believe that the Council should have the ability to increase it above one percent because I think ultimately for me, flexibility is important. I think that when I take a look at the Council's, I like the idea of allowing in emergency situations, the Council to have the ability to suspend the appropriation requirement as a super majority. Actually more than a super majority, two-thirds. I don't know that I would base it on the Director of Finance, I think I would go to the Mayor to make that. If you are going to do this, I think that you should be with the higher authority and not the appointed authority. I think also that we have heard enough that I am convinced that even though I am not in favor usually of putting personnel requirements into a Charter document that it seems to me that to use the cowgirl phrasing of spurring, that the idea being that somebody that is focused on making this happen is an employee and is named as an employee is an important piece. And so, I would be inclined to, if this moves forward, amend this so that it includes the senior staff person information as well. I am hearing that there is a cap, but I am not seeing the cap included in this particular thing. I just am not seeing it, where there is some type of cap in here, I am not seeing it. So, I also think that the restrictive covenant or as has been referred to the perpetuity section or element, I think that is important. I think that is important for matching. I think it is important for making sure that the partners that we are looking to get money to help us with... to leverage them, that that is included as part of the covenants. I intend to, assuming that we go to vote on this today, I intend to vote for it, but I also believe that there are amendments to this that are necessary for this. I think that flexibility is necessary. I think that much of 10-15 and 10-16 as it currently exists needs to be in ordinance and not in Charter, but I also understand that the idea of providing for public access, open space and natural resource preservation and maintenance is not just an important element to our residents but is a vital one. Much as the constitution talks about, the State Constitution talks about education, the County clearly believes that providing for public access, open space, and natural resource preservation and maintenance is a very, very high and attainable goal. So, that's my comments on this. I am not prepared necessarily to make amendments. I think that we can do that in the next iteration of this. We can if this goes forward then it will be important to include I believe amendments to fix those things that I think are important to fix as a part of this. Commissioner Hopkins. Commissioner Roehrig. MR. ROEHRIG: What I was looking at when I said minimum is the back of this thing that is in, that we were given today and you showed it to me and here it is, and it does say minimum of one percent and so I think that is important that there Page 51 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 be the option in good times and so I don't know if it makes sense to make a motion to amend that right now. I don't know how Mr. Hamann feels about that, but I will do that. I will make a motion that, then I say Exhibit C, I didn't see that, you showed me in here, so... CHR. ADAMS: I understand. It is my fault. MR. ROEHRIG: No, well, I should have looked through it a little closer myself so ah... CHR. ADAMS: So do you have an amendment for... MR. ROEHRIG: I would like to amend his proposal by adding the words minimum of one percent instead of a strict one percent because there are good times and if there is a great urge, well then they can do whatever they want, but on the hard times, then it is one percent, so I would make that motion. CHR. ADAMS: So it has been moved by Commissioner Roehrig that in Section A of Section 10-15, the phrasing becomes in adopting each fiscal year's budget and capital program, the Council shall appropriate a minimum of one percent of certified real property tax revenues. Is there a second? It has been moved by Commissioner Roehrig, seconded by Commissioner Todd. Vote on Motion The motion to amend Proposal No. CA -7 (Comm. No. 21) to provide that in To Amend CA -7 Section A of Section 10-15, the phrasing becomes in adopting each fiscal year's (Approved): budget and capital program, the Council shall appropriate a minimum of one percent of certified real property tax revenues and was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamann, Roehirg Saquing, Springer, Todd, and Chair Adams — 8 Noes: Commissioner Hopkins - 1 Absent: Commissioners Rice, and Zelko-Schlueter - 2 Excused: None. MR. HOPKINS: You were asking a question about whether there was a cap on here and I think there is from my reading and please correct me if I am wrong. Under Section A, number 1, there is essentially an informal cap that basically says that if the balance of the fund gets high, we are just going to stop putting more money in there even though we may be wanting to put, you know, build up that balance, or how am I reading that wrong? CHR. ADAMS: In my reading, it is the Council may by a two-thirds vote, so shalls and mays are important right, shalls you gotta do it and mays mean you can Page 52 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 do it but you don't have to. And so, they may by two-thirds vote which is above a super majority, suspend the appropriation requirement when the combined balance of the preservation and maintenance funds exceeds two percent of the annual real property tax revenue of the fiscal year. So yes, if it gets to two percent, or if it gets above two percent, then it is a possibility that the, when the balance gets above two percent, the Council may decide by two-thirds vote to suspend but it is not a requirement that they do so. So, yes, I understand what you are saying, there is a soft cap because of that. MR. HOPKINS: Okay, fine. On this one, can I make a motion to strike number one? CHR. ADAMS: What are you trying to amend Commissioner Hopkins? MR. HOPKINS: Basically in the motion, Section A, number one, to remove the, to remove that soft cap. CHR. ADAMS: So, Commissioner Hopkins moves that the A, sub one is deleted. It has been moved and seconded. Seconded by Commissioner Todd, moved by Commissioner Hopkins, seconded by Commissioner Todd that the phrasing A sub 1 of Section 10-15 i.e., the combined balance of the preservation and maintenance fund exceed two percent of the annual real property tax revenue of the fiscal year; or is to be deleted. Any discussion? Commissioner Roehrig. MR. ROEHRIG: Sony. CHR. ADAMS: Any discussion? Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: I ain a little confused. So the essence of your amendment it would be to remove the cap or to remove the soft cap and make it a hard cap? Sony, I am not following. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: The essence of the move here is it says it takes this cap off They have an opportunity right now if this was included, Council could sit there and say we are not going to put any more money in there because we have money in the account, but it also means that if we are trying to build up because we have money in the account, but it also means that if we are trying to build up the balance in that account because we are trying to buy some big pieces of property depending on Council and things there, basically I am wanting to say once money goes into here, you can't stop, you know, if we are dropping it to one percent and I am not sure if I agree with that one yet as I have said, actually I know I am not agreeing with it, but that is beside the point. I don't want them to be able to sit Page 53 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 there and say we are not going to put any more money into it because we have a balance there because the idea is we may be needing to build this balance so I don't have a problem with number two on the ones here because if we are in really bad condition, financial condition, I think we should have some flexibility there but I don't like them to have just because we have a balance, so what I am wanting to do is to remove that option so that money goes in, the money goes in and it is used for this purpose. CHR. ADAMS: Any other discussion? MR. YOSHIMOTO: Mr. Chairman, so just to be clear, the motion is going to remove subsection 1, including the word or and then change, and then also delete number 2 because it just becomes one sentence right? Just so the record is crystal clear. Right? CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Thank you Mr. Yoshimoto. Hearing no other, seeing no other discussion, all in favor of the amendment please signify by saying "aye". Any opposed? So, the amendment passes 7 to 2 with the nayes being Commissioner Hamano and Commissioner Roehrig and Commissioner Zelko and Commissioner Rice excused. Vote on Motion The motion to amend Proposal No. CA -7 (Comm. No. 21) to remove To Amend CA -7 subsection (a)(1) and delete number (a)(2) and was carried by the following (Approved): voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hopkins, Galimba, Saquing, Springer, Todd, and Chair Adams — 7 Noes: Commissioner — Hamano, and Roehrig - 2 Absent: Commissioners Rice, and Zelko-Schlueter - 2 Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: Any other discussion on the motion as amended? Alright. All in favor of the motion for initial approval of Charter Amendment 7 as amended please signify by saying "aye", opposed, alright, motion, the motion as amend, the motion as amended passes, doing my math in my head 8 to 1 with the naye being Commissioner Galimba and Commissioner Rice and Commissioner Zelko excused. MR. HOPKINS: Clarification please. The process is this is just the first time that we, we will be coming back to this. CHR. ADAMS: We will see CA -7 in our next regularly scheduled meeting. When it comes in as New Business for first reading. Page 54 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MR. HOPKINS: Thank you for the clarification. CHR. ADAMS: Alright. For...moving then to Commission, I am sorry, Item number 4, under Unfinished Business, Communication No. 19, which transmits Charter Amendment 5 for initial approval, Proposal to change each instance of legislative auditor to county auditor as appearing in 3-18, as submitted by Commissioner Saquing. Do I have a motion on the table? I don't do motion yet? I do, I need a motion, do I? You are saying no I don't. So what I am asking... Commissioner Saquing. MS. SAQUING: I just wanted to...can we have a little bit of discussion before the motion? CHR. ADAMS: Uh, we need to have a motion to... MS. SAQUING: Have a motion first? CHR. ADAMS: In order to have the discussion...would you like to snake the motion? MS. SAQUING: I'd like to make a motion to accept it. CHR. ADAMS: We have a motion to...ah, for initial approval of Charter Amendment 5. Is there a second? Seconded by Commissioner Galixnba. Discussion? Commissioner Saquing. MS. SAQUING: I wanted to address what Margaret Wille shared this afternoon with regard to adding the sentence the audit plan shall not disclose which specific agencies, funds, programs, services, or operations have been selected for an audit in the corning year. I am just looking for some guidance. Is that normal practice that they advise the various departments that they are coining in? I just kind of want to know what is done on a County level. For us non-profit people we get an audit every year. We know its coming and everyone should be prepared for an audit, so I am just seeking a little bit more clarification. CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Yoshimoto. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I don't know what the other counties do. I can research that to give you more definitive answers by the time we reconvene on January 11th, My initial take though, is that we are open government, we are transparent, and things should be above board. I don't see an issue right now with the way your, with the way the language is now. I mean it is crystal clear what is happening and like I said, no surprises. I mean we should always be audited because it keeps everybody... Page 55 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 Vote on Motion To Pass CA -5 (Approved): MS. SAQUING: Right. Exactly, yeah, but I just wanted to honor her. MR. YOSHIMOTO: I can research that and will get back to you. MS. SAOUING: Thank you very much. CHR. ADAMS: Any other discussion? Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: As I have stated before on the other ones here, in many ways I look at this as housekeeping and as just as my philosophy here, I don't like to tie up the, spend a lot of money going to, putting things on the ballot when we have been living with the term legislative auditor for all this years and just to have a ballot measure just to change the name on it is you know, I understand we have quite a few things like this but for just on my general thing here, I will be voting no against changes that are not really substantive and so. CHR. ADAMS: Thanks Commissioner Hopkins. Any other discussion? Seeing no other discussion, my comment would be that I don't see this as housekeeping. I see this as a change of intent, that the legislative auditor even though that position has a responsibility for auditing across the County government, that without the phrasing of County auditor, that there is difference in perception. And so, that's... I believe is the purpose of the suggested change. Commissioner Roehrig. MR. ROEHRIG: J, do you agree with what he said? Do you agree with what he said as far as the difference between the meaning of the two terms. MR. YOSHIMOTO: In a nutshell yes. MR. ROEHRIG: How about not in a nutshell? MR. YOSHIMOTO: Well, we can elaborate because no, well, okay. CHR. ADAMS: Any other discussion? All in favor of the motion which would be to support initial approval of Charter Amendment 5, please signify by saying "aye", any opposed? The motion passes 8 to 1 with the naye being Commissioner Hopkins and Commissioners Zelko and Rice excused. The motion to pass Proposal No. CA -5 (Comm. No. 19) on initial approval and was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hamano, Galimba, Roehrig, Page 56 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 Vote on Motion To Pass CA -6 (Approved): Saquing, Springer, Todd, and Chair Adams - 8 Noes: Commissioner Hopkins - 1 Absent: Commissioners Rice, and Zelko-Schlueter - 2 Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: Moving to Item 5 in Unfinished Business, Communication No. 20 which transmits Charter Amendment 6 for initial approval, Proposal to expressly authorize the Police Commission the authority to discipline the Chief of Police and the Fire Commission the authority to discipline the Fire Chief, as submitted by Commissioner Saquing. Do I have a motion? MS. SAQUING: So moved. CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Saquing and seconded by Commissioner Hopkins. Commissioner Saquing. MS. SAQUING: Oh no, I am sorry. CHR. ADAMS: You don't want to talk to your motion? MS. SAQUING: I think it is pretty self-explanatory. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. MS. SAQUING: Yeah. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: It is right in front of Communication No. 21, so 20 is the correct one. Keep going. There you are. MR. ROEHRIG: Okay. Oh, I see. Okay. CHR. ADAMS: Seeing no discussion, all in favor of the motion, please signify by saying "aye". Any opposed? Motion passes 9 to 0 with Commissioners Rice and Zelko excused. The motion to pass Proposal No. CA -6 (Comm. No. 20) on initial approval and was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Noes: Commissioners Bergin, Hainan, Hopkins, Galimba, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, and Chair Adams - 9 None. Page 57 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 Absent: Commissioners Rice, and Zelko-Schlueter - 2 Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: Moving to New Business, Item No. 1, Communication No. 14.1, which transmits Charter Amendment 2, Draft 2, for first reading. Proposal to amend Section 3-7 to provide that the County Council hold an equal number of its regular meetings in East and West Hawai`i, submitted by Chair Adams. I cannot make this motion. MR. BERGIN: So moved. CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second? It has been moved by Commissioner Bergin and seconded by Commissioner Galimba to approve Charter Amendment 2 Draft 2, for first reading. Is that the correct way to say that? MR. HENRICKS: On first reading. The agenda tends to confuse you there. I apologize. CHR. ADAMS: On first reading. Thank you. On first reading. Any discussion? Just as a reminder, we approved this at our last meeting after some amendments. Not seeing any discussion... Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Just procedural. So, this is the second reading and then... CHR. ADAMS: So we had initial approval, and then it is first reading, but it is the second time that we are voting on it. GALIMBA: Okay. CHR. ADAMS: And so we will then go through public hearings, we won't do anything with it after here right. We will then go to public hearings, give the public an opportunity to have their conversations about it, their discussion whether, how they feel about it, and then it will come up for second and final reading. MS. GALIMBA: Okay. Thanks. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Bergin. MR. BERGIN: Oh, I am sorry. I just... Page 58 Hawai `i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: I know, I pay attention to these lights. Seeing no other discussion, all in favor of the motion please signify by saying "aye". Any opposed? Motion passes 9-0 with Commissioner Zelko and Rice excused. Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -2, as amended, on first reading was carried by the To Approve following voice vote: CA -2, Draft 2 (Approved): Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Harnano, Hopkins, Galimba, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, and Chair Adams - 9 Noes: None. Absent: Commissioners Rice, and Zelko-Schlueter - 2 Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: I would like to, without objection, move to Item 3 in New Business, Communication No. 24, seeing no objection, Communication No. 4, transmits Charter Amendment 9 for initial approval, Proposal to amend Section 10-15 to provide that funds from the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund be used to fund a staff position dedicated to administrating the provisions of Section 10-15 and 10-16 as submitted by Commissioner Galirnba. Is there a motion? MS. GALIMBA: I move to approve this amendment. I mean, this proposal. CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Galimba and seconded by Commissioner Bergin. Discussion? MS. GALIMBA: Well, I think we have, actually a lot of the testimony has already made the main points about this and it is fairly self-explanatory. It does intend to strengthen the PONC fund by providing for a dedicated staff person which I think is sorely needed, and if I may, I would like to call up Debbie Hecht to speak to this proposal. CHR. ADAMS: Without objection. (Note: At this time, Debbie Hecht carne forward to address the members of the Commission.) MS. HECHT: Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I think it is really important to fund a staff person dedicated only to the Administration of the two percent land fund and that they be employed under the Department of Finance and their duties shall include but not be limited to assisting the public with applications for acquisition, now those are the suggestion forms. It is right on the PONC site. Assisting the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Commission with its prioritization of properties, and then the Page 59 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 negotiation and acquisition of eligible properties, seeking and acquiring matching funds which is very, very important because a third of the money so far has come from matching funds and actually it should be 50% of the money should come from matching funds, so I am glad, but I am not really sure. The legislation that you just moved forward to second reading, does that have that um, that perpetuity clause? CHR. ADAMS: If I might make, the Charter Amendment rather than legislation, Charter Amendment, proposed Charter Amendment that we moved was going to first reading, so it was just initial approval, just so we are clear. MS. HECHT: Okay, but that still has that perpetuity clause taken out right? CHR. ADAMS: That particular Charter Amendment proposal does. MS. HECHT: Okay, so, we won't be able to get matching funds if that is not in there, but also, if you are going to fund a staff position, I mean I am not sure about County, you know, salaries but I would imagine that would be $60- $75,000.00 a year, and if you are only going to have a million dollars in the fund at one percent, there's nothing there's less to administer, plus you are taking out even more. CHR. ADAMS: If I may, just to clarify. This particular amendment that you are testifying on assumes that you still have 10-15 and 10-16 in its entirety. MS. HECHT: Correct. CHR. ADAMS: This is an amendment only on that so you... MS. HECHT: Right, okay. Okay. CHR. ADAMS: So that, this particular amendment deals with it as it currently exists. MS. HECHT: Okay, okay. So, yeah, I think that is good. So we are hearing them just totally as independent and then they will move forward and be voted on and "either/ored" I suppose, as we go on. Is that what you are saying? CHR. ADAMS: That will be up to the Commission. MS. HECHT: Okay because I did like the idea to bifurcate to amend the two parts of the Charter because we will be bringing forward changes to the maintenance fund and that is going to be vetted all around the island to people. CHR. ADAMS: I appreciate this Ms. Hecht. If you could focus on this amendment. Page 60 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MS. HECHT: I will finish with this. Okay. So this staff person, I mean we have had really great staff people, but I know I have called Hamann and talked to him and he has taken off to go relocate cattle you know when, when, the need is necess... you know, the need comes up. So, he hasn't really been able to devote the time, which I believe is why the money has accumulated in the fund and only 14 properties have been acquired over the last bunch of years. So this position shall be exempt from civil service laws and classifications and be distinct from other positions that provide support for the provisions of this Section. Now I think that there are a couple of changes that we would like and I don't know if you got the, the, part with the pink highlighting and it says fund a staff, a senior staff person dedicated. We would like to add in only so that this is the only thing they do because frequently in the past that staff person has been taken off to do other things. And then also, add in the caps this staff person position is in addition to the staff provided for the Public Access and Open Space Commission in the Hawai`i County Code, and I didn't know the section, so. So yeah, I mean if we have a point person shepherding these acquisitions through, getting matching funds and you know that, if it is out of the two percent amount, I think that that's doable. Does anybody have any questions? CHR. ADAMS: Are there any questions by the Commissioners for the... Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: Why Finance versus R&D? MS. HECHT: Well, it, the PONC Commission is part of Finance Department so, and I think we heard from Deanna Sako that they were willing to take on you know, more of the stewardship grants and so, I don't know, I think the Department of Finance is the most businesslike of departments and you know, this was really a monetary thing so I think it makes sense to have it in Finance Department and they have already accepted the responsibility or we heard her say that 1 think. MR. HOPKINS: Okay, well, 1 guess more when you are looking at R&D is the one that does most of the grants and stuff and grant writing, versus Finance which does primarily taking caring of the money and making sure its spent properly, but R&D has a lot of the grant opportunities. That is just why... MS. HECHT: Right, but... MR. HOPKINS: And the other question that I had was why non -civil service? Page 61 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MS. HECHT: No, no, that came from Jon. When we were talking to Jon. I don't know. I don't know what the ins and outs of that are honestly. I never worked for government, well, I did for - a while actually. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, thanks. MR. HOPKINS: Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: So I just wanted to address the non -civil service, so that's, there was two reasons for that. One is that I thought that having a non -civil service person would give us more options to find a person that is truly passionate about the PONC program and also I know that the PONC supporters would like this position to be in addition to the current staff that spend a lot of time on PONC duties but are not dedicated to it, so this civil...non-civil service position, by making it non -civil service this allows it, or indicates that it is distinct from those positions that already exist. Am I correct in that, in that interpretation Mr. Henricks? MR. HENRICKS: That sounds pretty subjective. I won't say it is correct or not and just for the record, we had a discussion about some of the differences between civil service and appointed positions and it was only that, a discussion. MS. GALIMBA: Right. MR. HENRICKS: And you made your decisions from there. Thank you. MS. GALIMBA: Okay. MS. HECHT: Can I also add that this is a benefit to the Department of Finance because the funding will come out of the two percent land fund and that will mean that they don't have to fund a staff position to do this any longer. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Galimba did you have any other questions? MS. GALIMBA: Sony. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: I oppose the language that says the position shall be exempt from civil service laws and classifications cause that essentially turns it into an appointed position, subject to every Mayor so you know, you have somebody there for four years and then the next Mayor comes in and says okay, you're fired, I am going to bring one of my guys in, so I prefer having a civil service position Page 62 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 that has a description of the job and the requirements and give some tenure to that position so long as the funding is available. So, just my two bits, I am a little concerned. I think we need to take a look at that language because generally because it is a State civil service system, there is a preference that positions be civil service and guided by the merit principal as opposed to appointed and since this is a position which is within the Finance Department, it is not a position that you know oversees a department which is those positions that get appointed by the Mayor. I am a little concerned about having a position underneath the Finance Director which is essentially an appointed position. Also, in order to be exempt from civil service laws under the Kono decision, you have to have a specific provision in State law that would exempt somebody from civil service in order... you cannot just create an exemption from civil service through your Charter. It has to have a specific provision in the HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes) for that exemption, under the Kono decision, so I think we need to take another look at that. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Thank you. MS. TODD: Having been on the losing end of the Kono decision. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Saquing. MS. SAQUING: Hi, Ms. Hecht, I just had a question. You made a comment about if the word perpetuity was not in the amendment that we would not have access to additional funds is that... MS. HECHT: No, no, the perpetuity clause where it says that the lands that are acquired with the two percent land fund cannot be sold or transferred, mortgaged, in any way, and what happens with that is that, I mean, just imagine, you go to State Legacy Lands and let's say the County sells a piece of the land that was acquired with Open Space funds, and then you go to State Legacy Lands to get matching funds and they say, you know, they wouldn't help us out because it could be sold or transferred. CHR. ADAMS: Yeah, there is a point of order. Commissioner Roehrig. MS. SAQUING: I am sorry. CHR. ADAMS: That's okay. No. Your point of order? MR. ROEHRIG: No, it's okay. CHR. ADAMS: Alright. Strike that. MS. SAQUING: Thank you for the clarification. Page 63 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: This language is not in the other Charters in Kaua`i and Maui. Is that correct Commissioner Hamano? MR. HAMANO: That's correct. MS. TODD: And, has it prevented them from being able to get matching funds? MR. HAMANO: No. MS. TODD: Okay. CHR. ADAMS: Again, I would point out that that discussion has nothing to do with this particular amendment, that that was associated with Items in 10-15. Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: Based on the concerns with language on this particular item as expressed by Commissioner Todd, I would like to make a motion to lay this on the table until the January meeting so that they have an opportunity to check the language regarding, particularly regarding civil service. CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second? MS. TODD: Second. MS. SAQUING: We all said second. CHR. ADAMS: I didn't catch. Second. Okay, seconded by Commissioner Todd. Okay, that's fine. MS. HECHT: But we offered to strike that. CHR. ADAMS: I am sorry. MS. HECHT: Oops. Sorry. CHR. ADAMS: We have a motion to amend, I am sorry, we have a motion to lay this particular Charter Amendment, Number 9, on the table and we have a second. Any discussion? Actually, on this particular motion do I take discussion or do we just vote? MR. HENRICKS: I can't recall at this second. Page 64 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 CHR, ADAMS: Alright so we are just going to go with the default. Any discussion? Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Given that I sort of recognize Commissioner Leithead-Todd's concerns about non civil service versus civil service, could I move to amend the proposal to strike that language, and I guess I have a question for Mr. Henxicks. If we do strike that language, does it then become by default a civil service, or do we need to specify. MR. HENRICKS: I don't know the answer to this question, but while the motion to lay on the table is on the floor, you cannot make a motion to arnend the main motion. CHR. ADAMS: And she wasn't because I wasn't going to let her, but she is asking the question. MR. HENRICKS: I don't know. MS. GALIMBA: You don't know okay. MR. HENRICKS: No. MS. GALIMBA: So, I guess the right thing to do at this time is to lay it on the table so we can get some answers. CHR. ADAMS: Any other discussion? All in favor of... Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: So, if we voted not to table at this time, then Commissioner Galimba could make a motion to amend by deleting that last sentence. Is that correct? CHR. ADAMS: That is correct. Any other discussion? All in favor of the motion to lay Charter Amendment 9 on the table signify by saying "aye". Any opposed? The motion passes 5 to 4, with the nayes being Commissioner Todd, Commissioner Saquing, Commissioner Springer, and Commissioner Galimba. With Commissioner, oh, we need 6 don't we? MR. HENRICKS: I am not actually... CHR. ADAMS: I apologize. MR. HENRICKS: I am not certain actually because this is a procedural motion, so it may be a majority of those present. CHR. ADAMS: Right. Page 65 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MR. HENRICKS: Can we look into that really quick? Take a quick recess. I just want to make sure we get this right. CHR. ADAMS: Take a quick recess. RECESS: At 5:31 p.m., the Chair called for a recess. RECONVENE: The meeting reconvened at 5:33 p.m. CHR. ADAMS: So pending Commissioner Roehrig returning, the ... MR. HENRICKS: Well, when we turn to the big book, it turns out that the motion to lay on the table was not debatable, but that is okay, but what that tells us is that it is a procedural motion and the rules state that procedural matters just require a majority of those present. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Alright, so, what that means for the Commissioners is that the vote passed to lay CA -9 on the table, passed 5 to 4 with Commissioners Saquing, Springer, Todd, and Galirnba voting naye and Commissioners Zelko and Rice excused. Alright. Vote on Motion Commissioner Hopkins moved to lay Proposal No. CA -9 (Comm. No. 24) on the To Table CA -9 table. Second by Commissioner Todd and carried by the following (Approved): voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hamano, Hopkins, Roehrig, and Chair Adams - 5 Noes: Commissioners Galimba, Saquing, Springer, and Todd - 4 Absent: Commissioners Rice, and Zelko-Schlueter - 2 Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: What I would like to do is I would ask that we take New Business, Item 2 and New Business, Item 4. I would entertain separately motions to table those. MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Chair. If I may. CHR. ADAMS: Please. MR. HENRICKS: Because the meeting apparently we put into recess, there isn't necessary to table those matters unless you want to take them up and discuss them. If you just want to have them be available for discussion, then you don't Page 66 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 Vote on Motion To enter into Executive Session (Approved) RECESS: RECONVENE: have to table them. You only need to table when you start discussion and there are motions on the floor. CHR. ADAMS: Got it. What I would like to do is that without objection, move from New Business to Executive Session. Alright. I would like to go into Executive Session at this time. MR. HENRICKS: You would need a vote and a motion to enter into Executive Session. Commissioner Hopkins moved to enter into Executive Session in order to hold attorney-client privilege discussion regarding Communication No. 26, protocols for Commissioners to meet outside of a regular meeting with groups or individuals to discuss Commission business. Seconded by Commissioner Springer Ayes: Noes: Absent: Excused: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamann, Hopkins, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, and Chair Adams 9 None. Commissioners Rice, and Zelko-Schlueter - 2 None. MR. HENRICKS: We would need to have as part of the motion a descrip... CHR. ADAMS: The motion would be to ah, the Charter Commission anticipates convening an executive meeting regarding the above matter, Communication No. 26, Item No. 1, pursuant to Section 92-5 (a)(4) HRS for the purpose of consulting with the Commission's attorney on questions and issues pertaining to the Commission's powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and liabilities. Please clear the room. At 5:38 p.m., the Chair called for a recess to go into Executive Session. The meeting reconvened at 5:55p.m. CHR. ADAMS: We are back in open session. No? 1 would like to go back into open session. MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, I just wanted to make sure procedurally we had everything over there and we are back in an open meeting again which is the curtains and the doors. CHR. ADAMS: Alrighty. Commissioner Hopkins. Page 67 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MR. HOPKINS: Could I make a motion to recess? CHR. ADAMS: Before you do that, I would like to have a quick conversation. MR. HOPKINS: Okay fine, I'll hold them back. CHR. ADAMS: Brief conversation. You know what? Go ahead and make your motion. MR. HOPKINS: I would like to make a motion to recess. CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Hopkins, it has been seconded by Commissioner Roehrig to go into recess. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Until when? CHR. ADAMS: I know, that's the, so the discussion item. Alright. I know, the motion actually has to have that information. You are saying until January 11 th? MR. HOPKINS: Until January 11 th because I thought we had decided that. CHR. ADAMS: Great, and you are okay with that in the second? MR. ROEHRIG: Sure. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. MR. HENRICKS: Time... CHR. ADAMS: So, now the question is... MR. HENRICKS: Time of day please. CHR. ADAMS: Yeah, and we are getting there. MR. HENRICKS: Okay. Pardon me. CHR. ADAMS: So, the question is, right now, I know, hey look, I am just a volunteer. We are having fun. Right now in our announcements on the agenda, our next regularly scheduled meeting says Friday, January 11th at 1:30 p.m. Yes, in Kona. The recess, we have a couple of options as I see it and this pertains to the time of day for this. If I take a look at what we have left on the agenda, we have essentially Communication No. 23, Communication No. 25, which are Charter Amendments 8, and 10, plus we also tabled CA -3 and CA -4. So, it is possible that we might be able to get through those if we started early and then Page 68 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 still hold our regularly scheduled meeting on the 11th, or we just say we are going to meet in Kona, ah, we are going to meet somewhere at 1:30 on the 1 1th as a recess part of this meeting and then on the 25th' we hold our regular January meeting and that would be in Kona. So, I am up for conversation on that. MS. GALIMBA: Just, I won't be able to make it but... CHR. ADAMS: you won't be able to make either one? MS. GALIMBA: Just the 25th' CHR. ADAMS: The 25th' is out? I see. Okay. So if we say we meet for a couple of hours, so if we are able to meet on Friday, let's say 11:00 a.m., on the 11th, and we do that in Kona, and then we plan for our regularly scheduled meeting at 1:30 p.rn. in Kona. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Changing the location...(inaudible). MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Yoshimoto is asking an intriguing question because this meeting is scheduled to take place in Hilo according to the agenda and it is not technically over. Can it be moved to Kona? CHR. ADAMS: I don't know the, I mean... MR. HENRICKS: And he is asking a question rather than making a statement at this point. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Well, you know the problem is, the issue is that as I recall, and someone can correct me if I am wrong, when the Commission talked about initially after the end of the testimony what the plan was, I don't know that it was clear to the members of the public who were here right, whether it was going to be here or in Kona. Location right? So, I don't remember that being discussed. Now, I don't know what the reasonable expectation is. To me, I don't know. MS. TODD: I believe that under the Sunshine Law, as long as you announce before the end of the meeting the time and place that you are recessing to, that you have complied. And so, we may need to advertise it a little bit but I think that as long as we still have our meeting going, we haven't ended and the Chair announces that we are recessing until January 1 lth at 11:00 a.m. in Kona, that meets the requirements of the Sunshine Law. The fact that the members of the public didn't stick around to come back in afterwards is their problem. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Well, that sounds... that is the protocol that we followed when I was on the Council. That sounds correct right?, but my concern is again is that we said something earlier but I was under the impression if you were to ask me, that the meeting would have been continued here. Page 69 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Right. Sure. MR. YOSHIMOTO: A reasonable person would think of, it is agendized here, they expect it to be here. Now, we can go to extraordinary means to notice the public. I just point out the issue. I don't know that it is going to be you know, an issue for the public, but I am just saying that if it was me, I would have thought it would have continued here because this is where it started right, you know, the agenda didn't say otherwise. I just point it out. The Commission can do what it wants. MS. TODD: Given the fact that most of the people are in Kona, you know I mean Debbie Hecht and the others that cane, came from Kona, the fact that they are going to be able to testify from Hilo because we will have this place available for them. I think all that is required is you have to put up your notice both at where we are going to hold the meeting in Kona and the notice here so that people can see that the meeting is convening in Kona on the 11th and you have complied with the Sunshine Law. As long as you have done it six days prior to us going out. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hamano. MR. HAMANO: You know J, I have concerns about that in the sense that are we sure that that is the rule? Because I don't want to make, I really... this is a very long meeting, we accomplished quite a bit and I don't want it to be like there was a Sunshine Law violation and then therefore everything we did is like invalid. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Oh no, no. That, what Commissioner Todd said, that's my recollection of what the law said as long as you announce it during the meeting. Now my concern, I don't mean to split hairs you are just asking the question. MR. HAMANO: Yeah. MR. YOSHIMOTO: My concern is that we made a certain announcement at the beginning, the announcement changed a little bit during the meeting which is now that is technically okay, but I am just saying that it might be an issue because if you were to ask me... MR. ROEHRIG: How about we just go ahead and set it for 11:00a.m., in the meantime you go research it and if we are in violation you let us know, if not we move forward. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Yeah so, are you asking me if I am a 100% sure? No, I would have to make sure right, so if you give me that latitude then I can make sure. Page 70 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 Vote on Motion To Recess (Approved): MR. HAMANO: Okay. MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Chair, if I just may bring something else forward for consideration. CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Henricks. MR. HENRICKS: I understand the proposal is to recess to a time before our regularly scheduled meeting regardless of location and then have our regularly scheduled meeting on the same day. I don't know if the items that passed first reading today could be on that agenda later for that day because the meeting is still going on. And because the meeting is still going on, people have the opportunity to make a motion for reconsideration, so we shouldn't put those items that passed first reading on to the next agenda. That would be inappropriate to be able to rule on them on that same day. CHR. ADAMS: No that answers... you don't even have to say any more. MR. HENRICKS: Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: We can't do it. Alrighty so, the motion on the table is to recess this meeting until January llth at 1:30 p.m. in Hilo... in Hilo, and then is there any other discussion on that? MR. ROEHRIG: Hilo or Kona? CHR. ADAMS: Hilo. Hilo on the 1 lth and then, so we have a motion on the table. I would like to talk--- and it is to recess so as soon as we vote on it then we will be done. The announcement should say then, without objection, it will be Friday, January 25th at 1:30 p.m. in Kona for the next regular meeting. Okay, hearing no objection, all in favor of the motion to recess until January l lth 1:30 p.m. here in Hilo, please signify by saying "aye". Any opposed? The motion to place the meeting in recess was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamann, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, and Chair Adams — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Rice, and Zelko-Schlueter -- 3. Excused: None. Alright, motion passes nine, zero with Commissioners Zelko and Rice excused. Folks, I really do appreciate all of you. I wish you all a great Merry Christmas Page 71 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 RECESS: and Happy New Year. I thought that we got way more than I thought we were going to get done today and I appreciate you guys staying with me as we kind of work through this whole process. Thank you to the staff. These things are amazing. I saw people eating this stuff so this is really unbelievable alright. Thank you, thank you, very, very much. Goodnight. At 5:38 p.m., the meeting was placed in recess until January 11, 2019 at 1:30 p.m. at the Council Chambers in Hilo. RECONVENE: The meeting reconvened at 1:34 p.m. on January 11, 2019. CHR. ADAMS: The recess has ended and the meeting will come to order. I would note strictly for the record, who we have in attendance. Dr. Bergin, Commissioner Galimba, we have Commissioner Hainan, Commissioner Leithead-Todd, Commissioner Rice, Commissioner Roehrig, Commissioner Saquing, Commissioner Springer, and Commissioner Zelko, as well as myself. Currently Commissioner Hopkins is not present, although we anticipate his arrival at some point. (Kevin Hopkins arrived approximately two minutes later). Up to this point—so we are currently on the agenda that was the 1:30 p.m., December 14, 2018 agenda, we have run through a variety of, and concluded a variety of those items, however I would note that since we are still in that meeting, that there are parliamentary procedures that allow for both the potential re -consideration of any items that we have. I would note that that is in our rules, as well as the idea that we would have any potential changes to the rules, that's still also something that we could do if that was desired by the majority of the Coirnnission. I would note that Commissioner Hopkins has joined us. So we have no Commissioners absent or excused for this portion of the meeting. UNFINISHED The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business, BUSINESS: Unfinished Business. CHR. ADAMS: Alright, so in our agenda moving forward we are in Unfinished Business. We have completed Item Number 1 in Unfinished Business, Communication No. 3. If at any time I am incorrect, I am sure I will be informed of that. So our next item would be Item No. 2, under Unfinished Business, Communication No. 17, this was transmitting Charter Amendment 3 (CA -3) for initial approval, the proposal to add a new section to the County Charter to establish a Climate Change and Resiliency Commission and a new section related to Greenhouse Gas Emissions Reporting and Reduction as submitted by Commissioner Galimba. This was postponed at our November 9th meeting. There is a motion on the floor made by Commissioner Galirnba and seconded by Commissioner Roehrig to pass CA -3 on initial approval and forward for the first Page 72 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 reading. At this point I would like to turn it to the maker of the motion for any comments that the Commissioner may have. MR. HENRICKS: Pardon me, it was tabled correct? CHR. ADAMS: It was postponed. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Tabled. MR. HENRICKS: Laid on the table. So we just need a motion to take it off the table and get it back on the floor, correct. CHR. ADAMS: So I would entertain a motion to do that. MS. GALIMBA: Can I do that? I move to get it off the table, to remove from the table. CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second? So it has been moved by Commissioner Galimba and seconded by Commissioner Springer. Any discussion? All in favor say "aye". Any opposed? Vote on Motion Commissioner Galimba moved to approve the minutes of To Remove from Table: November 9, 2018. Seconded by Commissioner Todd and (Approved) carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano, Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 11 Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: Alright, thank you. At this time, Commissioner Galimba do you have anything that you would like to say about this particular motion? MS. GALIMBA: Just as I talked about at the last meeting before we laid it on the table, okay, so, what I wanted to do was to amend my own proposal and to delete the second half of it which required emissions reporting and reduction. It is not that I don't think that that is important, I just want that to be discussed possibly in the commission, so the part of it that establishes the commission is exactly the same. It is just the second part that requires reporting and reduction, will be removed. MS. RICE: I couldn't hear that very clearly. Page 73 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MR. YOSHIMOTO: So she is moving to amend with Communication... what?, no?, It's up... (inaudible) CHR. ADAMS: So you are moving to amend CA -3 MS. GAL1MBA: Mmm hmm CHR. ADAMS: As we have in our Communication No. 17, to remove the section that begins "Greenhouse Gas Emissions; Reporting and Reduction" that all disappears as a part of your proposed amendment. MS. GALIMBA: Yes. Yes. CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second? For the purposes of... oh, okay. It has been moved by Commissioner Galimba and seconded by Commissioner Bergin to amend Charter Amendment 3 as identified in Communication No. 17 to remove the section that is titled Greenhouse Gas Emissions Reporting and Reduction. Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Basically I just think we need to continue having that discussion but I don't think based on some of the comments made from the Communication from R & D (Research and Development), based on those comments I don't think we are at the right point to require it in the Charter at this time. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Are there any other, is there any other discussion? Seeing none, all in favor of the move to amend CA -3 by deleting the section Greenhouse Gas Emissions Reporting and Reduction, please signify by saying "aye", any opposed? Motion passes 11-0. So we are now back to the motion on the table to approve CA -3 as amended, which essentially is the section Climate Change and Resiliency Commission. Do you have any other comments that you would like to make on that? I am referring to Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Yes, thank you. Well, basically 1 think this commission will allow for this County to continue having a conversation about climate change and also to bring the public into that conversation. I think we are doing, R&D is doing some good work on the subject, but I think an important part of addressing climate change is outreach and having everyone involved in it. So this commission would be one way and I am not even sure it is the perfect way, but it is the best way that I can think of at this time to achieve that end. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice. Page 74 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MS. RICE: Unfortunately because I wasn't here in December if there was further discussion, I know that the R&D Department felt that this was not necessary, that they were fully cognizant of the climate change situation and that all departments in the County were involved. Was there any further input from the Department of Research and Development concerning setting up a separate commission? MS. GALIMBA: Well there was... CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Right, there was the written communication that we had and we also have our— Ron is here, he could discuss it if you would like. MS. RICE: Would that be appropriate? To have Ron... CHR. ADAMS: We can have the Deputy Director of Research and Development, Director Whitmore come forward and address your questions. MS. RICE: Yeah, thank you. (Note: At this time, Deputy Director of Research and Development Ron Whitmore came forward to address the members of the Commission.) CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for being here. I think this is specifically for the purpose of answering questions. MR. WHITMORE: Sure. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. MS. RICE: I know originally when this was proposed you had said that as I stated a few minutes ago, it was being handled in all departments and that your department was taking the lead and that you didn't... that was my understanding, and if you could elaborate, was that you didn't think that another commission would be necessary to accomplish the work that we all are concerned about. MR. WHITMORE: That is our recommendation, that a commission is not necessary. It is based on a fairly high level benefit -cost analysis. I think it was Cormnissioner Todd last meeting that pointed out that based on her many years of experience in a variety of departments in the County, that commissions, committees, can sometimes you know, require costs that outweigh the benefits of the commission. I am not saying that would necessarily be the case in this instance but there are very real costs associated with administratively housing a commission, including sometimes significant staff time which then in turn has impacts on departmental productivity and there are also sometimes significant opportunity costs involved because time spent on task A, is time not otherwise Page 75 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 spent on other priorities, and given difficult, tight budget circumstances, people on a day-to-day basis we are commonly making choices between you know, which of the top priorities should we invest time and resources in to, knowing that we can't do it all with existing resources right, so it is simply through that frame that we recommend that you know, it is unclear whether a commission of this, with this charge, would be appropriate and if, and certainly maybe if there is some body representing the public is appropriate establishing in the Charter may not be the best place and we point out in our comments from December 3rd that the County Code already gives us the power to establish a Sustainability Action Committee and that could be—the charge for that committee could be redefined to more explicitly address climate change and other contemporary sustainability issues and in many ways serve a similar role, but with a little more flexibility because it wouldn't be established in the Charter, it would remain in the County Code. MS. RICE: Okay thank you very much. CHR. ADAMS: Are there any other questions? Thank you. I note—do you have any other comments? MS. RICE: Well, just that I am conflicted. I see the value of addressing climate change, no question, but based on whether a commission is the correct venue or not, I honestly as a... in this capacity I am not sure that that is the most efficient way to take care of it. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Okay. Commissioner Zelko. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thank you. It has been my experience over the last few years in working with the County R&D that really their mission are the things that I see here in this proposed change. I am actually much more comfortable with how it is already in the Code. I mean I am concerned when things go in the Charter and there is a requirement for it and I see how much work it takes to put on these commission meetings and the amount of personnel and time, so you know I am quite comfortable that it is in the Code and just in reality how they deal with the community day-to-day. I think it is already being handled quite well. CHR. ADAMS: Any other comments? Commissioner Roehrig MR. ROEHRIG: How do I make a motion to quash this? Can I? CHR. ADAMS: You can ask, I believe parliamentarialy you can call for the question and then we would be voting on that particular motion. MR. ROEHRIG: Okay, can I call the question? Page 76 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: You can call for the question. I believe... remind me is there a second required for such a motion? MR. HENRICKS: Correct. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, so Commissioner Roehrig has called for the question. Is there a second? Seeing no second the motion dies for lack of a second. Commissioner Hopkins did you have comments? MR. HOPKINS: (inaudible) CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice? MS. RICE: Just a big question mark. Although as I said earlier, I am very concerned as everybody is about the climate change but I would lean towards going with the recommendation from the Research and Development Department, where they feel that it is presently covered so I am sorry to be so unsure but that is where I am. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Rice. Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: Thank you. You know I am reticent to establish new commissions just because of seeing over the past ten years so many new committees and commissions created and the amount of staff time that it has taken. The County is involved in climate change activities. Both the Planning Director and I believe R&D, but I know Planning sits on statewide committees on climate change, sea level rise, and trying to incorporate some of that into Code amendments that are enforceable. The energy coordinator at R&D as well as even Traffic Division over at Public Works have worked hand-in-hand in terms of things like just changing the lighting and reducing the amount of electricity used by government facilities in the, whew, I think maybe it was three or four years ago the County changed to biodiesel as another step in trying to work with both the issue of sustainability of buying something that's on island but is also— that's reusing waste oil from the Big Island, and so they have been actively doing these things as part of their mission both at R&D, but it is not just R&D it's the other departments too, and I hesitate to create a commission and take staff time away from some of the other work that they are doing when I know that they are already working on some of these issues, and sit on statewide committees, as well as working with the legislature on legislative actions. 1 share Commissioner Galimba's concern over climate change and particularly for me it is sea level rise because I think that that is going to have the greatest impact on the island and one of the easiest ways frankly to deal with that is for the Planning Department to adopt some rule changes so that they can legally move away from the 40 foot setback to a greater 60, 50, 75, 50% of the property, but right now because of the fact that they have not adopted their own set of rules and regulations on that, they are bound by the State law which is the 40 foot and that to me is the biggest single Page 77 Hawai `i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 thing that the County could do to deal with what is going to happen in the future along the coast. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Could I ask the Deputy Director of R&D to come forward for a couple of questions? CHR. ADAMS: Without objection? Okay. Deputy Director. (Note: At this time, Deputy Director of Research and Development Ron Whitmore came forward to address the members of the Commission.) MS. GALIMBA: So the first question is, I know you are involved with the State effort, so I was wondering if you could describe what the other Counties are doing as far as organizationally do they have commissions, etc.? MR. WHITMORE: So the most prominent example is City and County where in their—I think it was in 2016 Charter Amendment they established two things specific to climate change, resilience, and sustainability. An office that is an arm of the Mayor filled with exempt employees and a commission, a Climate Change Commission. None of the other counties in the state have taken similar actions. Where sustainability and climate and related issues land in each county is a little bit different. In Kaua`i there's an Energy and Sustainability position in their Office of Economic Development and it is with that individual that we very actively collaborate on many statewide issues, but there is no other programing or commission in Kaua`i specific to climate change or Greenhouse Gas Emissions. In Maui it is a little bit different. They I think have a comparable position in their OED (Office of Economic Development) office, but then they also have some sustainability positions in their—I think it is the equivalent of our Environmental Management Department that have never been filled so they are pretty much in practical terms comparable to Kaua`i. Does that answer your question? MS. GALIMBA: Yes. Thank you. And the second question that I had which is, which is just discussion of the committee established in the Charter that you mention in your communication. A Sustainability and Agriculture Committee. MR. WHITMORE: It is in Chapter 2 of the County Code. It is a Sustainability, let me get the name right. Sustainability Action Committee, Article 8 of Chapter 2. MS. GALIMBA: Right. MR. WHITMORE: And its, there is an advisory capacity to the Director of R&D on matters that support a sustainable economy, society, and enviromnent and it is Page 78 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 to make recommendations and support departments integration of planning and implementation of sustainable principles. So it is very broadly defined. MS. GALIMBA: Right and as we were discussing, it doesn't actually exist correct? MW WHITMORE: Uh, no it has not currently been seated as I understand it but I was in Planning at the time. It was established previously in two iterations. One was the Energy Committee and the Agriculture Committee both of which were active for a number of years, were given fairly specific charges to look at those fields and make recormnendations. They both did that. The products were both helpful and useful and continue to provide guidance for our energy and ag (agriculture) programs in the department. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Director. Seeing no other items for discussion, I would like to call the roll on this particular vote so if the Clerk would please call the roll on the motion. MR. HENRICKS: On the motion to approve CA -3 as amended on initial approval, Mr. Bergin Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -3, as amended, on first reading failed by the To Approve following voice vote: CA -3, Draft 2 (Failed): Ayes: Commissioners Galimba and Chair Adams - 2 Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, and Chair Adams - 9 Noes: Commissioners Bergin, Hamano, Hopkins, Rice, Roehirg, Saquing, Springer, Todd, and Zelko-Schlueter - 9 Absent: None. Excused: None. MR. HENRICKS: Chair Adams you have two votes in favor. The motion does not pass. You have taken the roll, do I need to name out the individuals? CHR. ADAMS: I am sorry? MR. HENRICKS: No, it is not necessary. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, thank you. MR. HENRICKS; Thank you though. Page 79 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 Vote on Motion To Remove From Table: (Approved) CHR. ADAMS: Alright moving on to Item 3 under Unfinished Business, Communication No. 18, transmitting Charter Amendment 4 for Initial Approval, Proposal to Amend Section 6-8.3 relating to the powers, duties, and functions of the Director of the Department of Research and Development as submitted by Commissioner Galimba. This particular, ah, we have a motion on the floor that was made by Commissioner Galimba and seconded by Commissioner Zelko- Schlueter to pass Charter Amendment 4 on initial approval and forward for the first reading. We also have tabled that—laid it on the table at our November 9`l' meeting to consider,(I need to be careful on my phrasing), to bring this motion back on to the floor. I would entertain a motion to remove it from the table. MR. HOPKINS: So moved. MS. TODD: Second. CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Hopkins and seconded by Commissioner Todd. Any discussion? I don't believe I need to ask that. All in favor please signify by saying "aye". At this time I would ask Commissioner Galimba who made the motion if you have any items that you would like to discuss. Commissioner Hopkins moved to remove CA -4 from the table. Seconded by Commissioner Todd and Carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamann, Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams 11 Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. MS. GALIMBA: Right. I am hoping Jon, you can help me out with this because what I wanted to do, and I am not as prepared as I should have been, but there was language that R&D provided and I wanted to amend it to that language. MR. HENRICKS: Deputy Director Whitmore points out that the language is located in Communication No. 17.1, page 2, under County Options for Reducing Greenhouse Gas Emissions, Preparing for Climate Change, Item 2 (a) correct? (off mic conversation) CHR. ADAMS: So, let me just make sure 1 understand Mr. Henricks. We are looking at 17.1, that came from the Department of Research and Development and where was it in that document? Page 80 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MR. HENRICKS: Page two, under the banner County Options for Reducing Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Preparing for Climate Change, which is pretty much directly in the middle of the page, Item 2, Strengthening Existing Institutions, sub -letter A. Which reads amends Section 6-8.3(b) Charter to read, strike through, provides staff leadership for, add, in collaboration and coordination with Federal and State agencies as well as the private sector advance and then retain public and private development programs enterprises and plans, strike through, including economic social and cultural proposals, strike through, including economic social and cultural proposals, strike through which retain that enhance and improve the County's, add environmental cultural, retain community, add and economic sustainability and resiliency. And I was not reading that as a part of a motion just so that we are all together on this same location. CHR. ADAMS: I understand. Thank you very much for helping us with that. MR. HENRICKS: That was chunky. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba that was an accurate representation of your amendment proposed? MS. GALIMBA: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: Are you making that amendment? MS. GALIMBA: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second to that amendment? So it has been amended by Commissioner Galiznba, and seconded by Commissioner Saquing. Commissioner Galiznba, would you like to speak to your amendment? MS. GALIMBA: I think it is a good amendment to the Charter and I am glad that the R&D Department submitted language that was amenable to the department. CHR. ADAMS: May I ask a question just for clarification? MS. GALIMBA: Sure. CHR. ADAMS: As I take a look at the current Charter Amendment 4, it identifies the replacement essentially of sub C out of 6-8.3 with in conjunction with Federal, State and environmental agencies etc. Make sure I get this, however, the amendment that you are making to this, amends subsection B and says nothing in terms of C, so this is just amending subsection B of 6-8.3 and keeping the Charter Amendment 4 item that you have with C or is it... Page 81 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MS. GALIMBA: Removing C. Right? Right. Yeah. That's what we wanted to do. Remove C. CHR. ADAMS: So that's actually part of the amendment then. MS. GALIMBA: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: So, to make sure that we have the amendment to this correct, Section 6-8.3 the amendment (forgive me), just so... MS. GALIMBA: Is to remove C, to amend B and remove C. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Under the Charter amendment, right. So this amends Charter Amendment 4 that we have received and takes C out, keeps C the way that it is in the current Charter...no. MS. GALIMBA: No. It removes C. CHR. ADAMS: Removes C completely. MS. GALIMBA: Removes C completely. CHR. ADAMS: Understand. Okay, and then B is amended according to the phrasing that was received in the Communication 17.1 from Research and Development. Alright. Is that clear to everybody? If it is not, please let me know because we can make it clearer. Okay. Do you have any other items that you would like to... do you have any discussion on any of that other than what you have made? Okay. Commissioner Bergin. MR. BERGIN: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: We are not voting yet. MR. BERGIN: Oh, I am sorry. CHR. ADAMS: You had your light on. I thought you had something you wanted to say. MR. BERGIN: No. I am sorry. CHR. ADAMS: That's okay. Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: To me this strengthens what we have been talking about and although we voted down the Commission, this supplements that to some extent and gives Page 82 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 the County and R&D in particular, the opportunity and the chore of pursuing this in a more serious manner, so I am in favor of this. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Zelko. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yeah, I also agree that this change makes sense because I think in reality this is what R&D is doing and so that, you know the particular people we have in place now are absolutely doing this but you never know who will be in those positions so I think it is good to make this change in the Charter, so I agree. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Oh sorry. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Roehrig. MR. ROEHRIG: Can we ask R&D what they think about it? MS. TODD: They wrote it. CHR. ADAMS: Without objection. Director Whitmore. MR. WHITMORE: Would you like me to respond to that question? CHR. ADAMS: You may respond to that question. MR. WHITMORE: So yes, we think it is a good idea. We, there's a little history here. We absolutely agree with the idea of deleting Section C entirely and that was part of our original recommendation to the Commission back in August or whenever it was. And then as has been noted, we think this clarification really provides important specificity both about the approach taken by the department emphasizing collaboration as well as the specific focus of the department. Specifically noting the multiple dimensions of sustainability. It was implied previously but this makes it much clearer. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you director. I would ask that we take the roll on this particular vote. MR. HENRICKS: Okay, on the motion to amend CA -4 as noted earlier, Mr. Bergin (yes), Ms. Galimba (aye), Mr. Haman (aye), Mr. Hopkins (aye), Ms. Leithead-Todd (aye), Ms. Rice (aye), Mr. Roehrig (aye), Ms. Saquing (aye), Ms. Springer (aye), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (aye), Chair Adams (aye). You have 11 votes in favor Chair Adams. Page 83 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 Vote on Motion The motion to amend CA -4 was carried by the following voice vote: To Amend CA -4 (Approved): Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamann, Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams —11 Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: The amendment passes. I would ask Commissioners as much as it is a pain, to please speak in to the microphone and to make sure that the microphone is actually on. That allows for our staff to be able to make sure that our minutes are accurate in terms of the gathering of the information. Thank you. So back to the motion as amended, so we have Charter Amendment 4, as amended. Do you have any other items to discuss Commissioner Galimba? Seeing not, or is there any other discussion? Seeing not, I would ask that we vote by roll call on this particular motion. MR. HENRICKS: On the motion to approve CA -4 as amended, on initial approval, Mr. Bergin (aye), it is going to knock off my rnic every time though. It's okay, well, okay. Mr. Hamano (aye), Mr. Hopkins (aye), Ms. Leithead-Todd (aye), Ms. Rice (aye), Mr. Roehrig (aye), Ms. Saquing (aye), Ms. Springer (aye), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (aye), Chair Adams (aye). Chair Adams you have 11 votes in favor. Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -4, as amended, on initial approval was carried by the To Approve following voice vote: CA -4., Draft 2 (Approved): Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano, Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams —11 Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: The motion passes on initial approval and we are forwarding it, this particular Charter Amendment 4, for first reading. That accomplishes all of the old, all of the Unfinished Business on the December 14th agenda. We will now move into New Business. We have dealt with the Draft 2 of Charter Amendment No. 2, that was received in Communication No. 14-1 already. Page 84 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 NEW BUSINESS: The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business, New Business. Vote on Motion To File Ad Hoc: Committee Report (Approved) CHR. ADAMS: Moving on to Item No. 2 under New Business, Communication No. 23 this is transmitting Charter Amendment 8 for initial approval, A Proposal to Amend Section 3-2 to provide that the terms of Council Members be changed from four consecutive two-year terms to two consecutive four-year terms as submitted by Commissioner Rice. At this moment I would ask without objection that we actually receive report Number 3-2-1, which is the Ad Hoc Committee Report that is in Reports. Seeing no objection, the Committee report was made available to us in our November meeting for our review. This is now available— has been made available to the public during this entire period and at this time we would receive and file, I would entertain motion to receive and file the Ad Hoc Committee Report dealing with Section 3-2, Composition and Terns of Council Members, Findings and Recommendations, as submitted by Commissioner Rice as the Chair, Bergin, Hopkins, and Leithead-Todd. Is there such a motion? It has been moved by Commissioner Zelko and seconded by Conunissioner Hopkins. Any discussion? Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: No. I think the report speaks for itself. CHR. ADAMS: Alright. Commissioner Bergin. MR. BERGIN: Aye. CHR. ADAMS: I am sorry. We are not voting yet. MR. BERGIN: I have been awfully anxious today. CHR. ADAMS: All in favor of the motion to receive and file the Ad Hoc Committee report, Section 3-2 signify by saying "aye" Any opposed? Motion has been received and filed. Thank you. The motion to close file on Ad Hoc Committee Report was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Noes: Absent: Excused: Commissioners Bergin, Galirnba, Harnano, Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko- Schlueter, and Chair Adams – 11 None. None. None. Page 85 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Without objection moving back to Item 2 in New Business, Communication No. 23, I would entertain a motion to remove from the table Charter Amendment No. 8. Is there a motion to do so? MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Chair, that one was yet to be addressed. CHR. ADAMS: Ah, so we never even... MR. HENRICKS: Correct. It is available. CHR. ADAMS: Okay great. Okay. So, I would entertain a motion to pass Charter Amendment No. 8 on initial approval and forward for first reading. Is there such a motion? MS. RICE: So moved. MS. GALIMBA: Can I ask a question. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba. Well, we are in the middle of making a motion. MS. GALIMBA: I am just a little... okay. CHR. ADAMS: We have a motion. Is there a second? So, it has been moved by Commissioner Rice and seconded by Commissioner Zelko. We will move into discussion on this particular Charter Amendment as received under Communication No. 23. Commissioner Galimba, you had a question. MS. GALIMBA: Yeah, I had a question and it's about the order that we are in. I thought we had Communication No. 24 still on the table. CHR. ADAMS: We still have 24 to deal with. It is after 23. MS. GALIMBA: Okay. Okay. CHR. ADAMS: So that's Item No. 3 in our New Business. MS. GALIMBA: Okay, I was just a little confused. Great thanks. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice. Would you like to speak to your motion? MS. RICE: Yes. Our Committee discussed this and as our report states, there was a discussion about the advantages of keeping a two year cycle for Council elections and one of the main things was that then the Council members would pay more attention to their duties because they knew that election was coming up Page 86 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 imminently. However, for the long tenn vision of the County, a inajority of our members on the ad hoc committee felt that the four year cycle was actually better because then the Council members would not be concerned about having to prepare and fundraise for an upcoming election which happens almost immediately upon their beginning to become oriented on the Council and that they would take a longer term view of their job and the things that needed to be done to improve their district and the island as a whole and in our report we listed several things. One of course is cost and the fact that they ran every four years instead of every two, would be more cost effective for the Council members and that that would be an advantage and they would not be spending time fundraising, they would be spending time doing the work of the County and their district. Other members of my committee may have additional comments to make. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Rice. Commissioner Galimba? MS. GALIMBA: It's really bad. Sony. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Bergin did you have a comment? No, okay. Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: We have had a number of discussions back and forth and as was stated, the majority of the committee came up with the report here. It was not unanimous on the ones here. This is an issue that we have seen more than once over the years and I am not sure from a personal opinion... I don't you know, I have thought... the voters have decided on this one, again the last time. And 1 sort of get—I am not sure that this, we need to be kicking it back to them again okay? So that's basically my personal opinion on this one here. It works okay. I understand the issues on both sides, and I personally am more concerned with the Council people being, or knowing that they can be thrown out every two years if they are not paying attention. I am more ... I like the accountability aspect more than looking at efficiency because I am not sure whether that word should actually be associated with Council, so that is all I have to say. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Comtnissioner Hopkins. Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: I have always had mixed feelings about this. Because one idea having served on the Council, I liked the four-year term because the difficulty that I saw on the two-year term was passing large pieces of legislation. And that is like, if you are trying to revamp the subdivision code which is a very large piece of legislation. It is very difficult to do that in a two-year teen. And then, because we went through this process, and then new people got elected and then they wanted to start from day one and we had already put, you know, about 18 months of work on it, and then we had people who hadn't had any time, and then the end result basically was that we never did revamp the subdivision code and we had hired a consultant to the Planning Department and the last major revision I think Page 87 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 on the zoning code was back in the ---more than 20 years ago because the lawsuit was back in like 97. So, I know the voters like having the two years but what I saw on the Council was that when you were looking at big pieces of legislation, it became very difficult to get things done. On the other hand, having recently been paying attention to the news and watching the United States Senate, 1 have become... I have started thinking that maybe two-year tains at all levels of government would be a good thing. Just because I am seeing that the six-year term at the U.S. Senate gives too much cover to people so you know I am going to support this because 1 am going to let the voters vote on it. I suspect that it will not be supported because I think it was on the 2000, it got originally approved in the 1990 I think, it was on the ballot again in 2000 and was turned down by the voters to go back to four-year terms, and I think it was again on the ballot in 2010. I know that it was voted on twice and both times the voters have rejected it. But, I think you end up with better work and legislation and also, there is also the issue of staff continuity that comes up so I am going to support. I suspect it will not approve, but if somebody wants to start a Constitutional Amendment on the Federal level to shorten the terms of U.S. Senators, I would go out and campaign on that one. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Zelko. MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thank you. I also support this amendment. Part of the reason is because you get somebody voted in their first year and then their second year they are going to be spending time campaigning and I think that then they may not be as focused on some of the issues and so for me that is why I would support the four-year term. It gives them time to actually be talking about the important stuff and looking at the important stuff. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Zelko. Commissioner Bergin. MR. BERGIN: I am comfortable with the description of the product by Commissioner Rice, but 1 underscore in my observation, the need for these elected officials to have time and continuity and endurance to execute their particular initiatives to go ahead and watch the maturation of their kuleana and I think two years, you barely land and you are campaigning, which is a distraction. Whereas in the same token, the time to go ahead and examine proposals and initiatives does take time. The wheels of government tum slowly and I think we should time terms to give that candidate or that succeeded individual time to go ahead and follow their initiatives on through. So I support the wording of Commissioner Rice based on continuity and time. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Bergin. Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: One thing we haven't discussed is how the election would work and 1 am working with Jon Henricks on this. It is a little complicated and we will come Page 88 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 up with something that hopefully makes sense, that we will present. Jon, that would a part of this, would it be included as a part of this or as a separate proposal? MR. HENRICKS: Right. So I understand you are talking about incumbent Council members. MS. RICE: Correct. MR. HENRICKS: And how they would be impacted by a change in terms. MS. RICE: Correct, of switching. MR. HENRICKS: I don't want to get into other things we talked about which may be distinct proposals, but something like that could... it should be if you are contemplating and working with this, it should be a part of this proposal, one in the same. MS. RICE: Okay. That was my question. Okay. MR. HENRICKS: Thank you. MS. RICE: Just so you all are aware that that is in the works and that we are going to have it taken care of. CHR. ADAMS: Alright. I would like to call the roll, oh, Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Well, I just wanted to say that I can see the, how four years would be helpful to have some time to get involved and to know how to function. That does take time. However, I think I also think the accountability is more important, so I would be voting against this. CHR. ADAMS: At this time, let's call the roll by... vote on the motion by roll call please. MR. HENRICKS: On the motion to pass CA -8 on initial approval, Mr. Bergin (yes), Ms. Galimba (naye), Mr. Hamano (naye), Mr. Hopkins (naye), Ms. Leithead-Todd (aye), Ms. Rice (yes), Mr. Roehrig (naye), Ms. Saquing (yes), Ms. Springer (naye), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (yes), Chair Adams (yes). Chair Adams you have six votes in favor. Page 89 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -8 on initial approval was carried by the following To Approve CA -8 voice vote: (Approved): Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Rice, Saquing, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 6 Noes: Commissioners Galimba, Hamano, Hopkins, Roehrig, and Springer — 5 Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: Motion passes to send Charter Amendment No. 8, passes on initial approval and is forwarded for first reading. Item No. 3, in New Business is contained in Communication No. 24. This Communication transmits Charter Amendment No. 9 for initial approval, a Proposal to amend Section 10-15 to provide that funds from the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund be used to fund a staff position dedicated to administering the provisions of Sections 10-15 and Section 10-16 as submitted by Commissioner Galimba. Is there a motion? Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: I would like to remove this from the table. I move to remove from the table. CHR. ADAMS: This was never on the table. MS. GALIMBA: Oh, it never was? Oh, okay. MR. HENRICKS: I think she's correct. Wait. Sorry I might be... CHR. ADAMS: This was on the table? MR. HENRICKS: Yes. Correct. This was tabled at... on December 14, so... CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second to the motion to remove from the table? (second), it has been moved by Commissioner Galimba and seconded by Commissioner Zelko and a cast of thousands. All in favor of the motion please signify by saying "aye"(aye), any opposed? Motion passes. Vote on Motion Commissioner Galimba moved to remove CA -9 from the table. To Remove from Table: Seconded by Commissioner Zelko-Schlueter and carried by the (Approved) following voice vote: Page 90 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Harnano, Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams —11 Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: So, I don't know what I had here, let me see...so, we have a motion on the floor made by Commissioner Galimba and seconded by Commissioner Bergin to pass Charter Amendment No. 9 on initial approval and forward it for first reading. Commissioner Galimba you have the floor. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. Jon, did you, do you have that written up? MR. HENRICKS: Yes. Communication, if I assume to know what you are talking about, Communication No. 24.37, has been provided to each Commissioner. You should have it in front of you. CHR. ADAMS: It is a single page dated January I lth. MS. GALIMBA: I don't have it though, but we are sharing. Thank you. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Cornrnissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: So these, this is my proposed amendment to CA -9 and we are adding "only" in front of dedicated and we are removing the language which calls for the position to be exempt from civil service laws and classifications and we are specifying that the position will be in addition to other positions providing support for this Section. Section 10-16 of the Charter which is the maintenance fund section, and Article 42 of the Hawai`i County Code, or any matters related thereto. Do I need to move to make this... I move to amend it. MS. TODD: Second. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Galimba and seconded by Commissioner Todd to amend Charter Amendment No. 9 with the amendment as identified in Communication No. 24.37. Does that need to be clearer to anyone? Alright. Corrunissioner Galimba would you like to speak to your amendment? Page 91 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MS. GALIMBA: I guess if it is clear to everyone, what these amendments are, I don't particularly feel that I need to but if there is any questions, please feel free to ask. CHR. ADAMS: So I would just like to ask, so the inclusion of Article 42 of the Hawai`i County Code that is related to... MS. GALIMBA: That is the article relating to the Public... the PONC fund. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. MS. GALIMBA: And in that article it does provide for staff, so that... this staff person would be in addition to the staff people provided for in that article. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. And then the identification on the top line there on sub 3 dedicated only... adding the term only so that phrase would indicate that they could do nothing other than what is included in this paragraph. Is that the intent? MS. GALIMBA: Right. The intent is to further clarify that this position would be dedicated to work for the PONC fund. CHR. ADAMS: Only? MS. GALIMBA: Yes. Only. CHR. ADAMS: Any other items for discussion on this amendment? Let's vote on the amendment by roll call please. MR. HENRICKS: On the motion to amend CA -9 with the contents of Communication No. 24.37, Mr. Bergin (aye), Ms. Galimba (aye), Mr. Hamann (naye), Mr. Hopkins (naye), Ms. Todd (aye), Ms. Rice (aye), Mr. Roehrig (naye), Ms. Saquing (aye), Ms. Springer (aye), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (aye), Chair Adams (naye). Chair Adams you have seven votes in favor. Vote on Motion The motion to amend CA -9 with the contents of Communication No. 24.37 To Amend CA -9 was carried by the following voice vote: (Approved): Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Rice, Saquing, Springer, Todd, and Zelko-Schlueter 7 Noes: Commissioners Hamano, Hopkins, Roehrig and Chair Adams — 4 Absent: None. Excused: None. Page 92 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: The amendment passes, so we go back to Charter Amendment No. 9 as amended. Commissioner Galimba do you have any other items that you would like to discuss regarding Charter Amendment No. 9? MS. GALIMBA: I would like to speak in favor of my amendment and also in favor of the strengthening of PONC fund and the program which is the intent of this amendment to the Charter. As I have said before, this, the PONC fund is dearly beloved by the people, many people in the County of Hawai`i as evidenced by the daily arrival of email in our inbox in support of the PONC fund and I can understand the County's position in this time of fiscal stress, but we are always in fiscal stress, so I think that this, that there's always the positive and the negative of managing as large an entity as the County and there's the negative things that happen but I think it is important to support the positive things that already exist, rather than to drag the positive down when negative things happen. So this to me, and to many people in this County, is sort of a bright shining light in our County and that is all I want to say. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: I speak in favor of the amendment to create a senior staff position funded by the PONC funds and the reason is that if you have positions that are only funded by general fund, then during... and have other duties...then during times of fiscal constraint or of the Administration feeling that there are other priorities, what you may end up with is a lack of service to the function and you can't acquire property if you don't have somebody actively working on it. You would need somebody actively working on managing it and you also need somebody who is going to actively work for matching funds to try and get more bang for our buck so to speak. And by funding this position by PONC, ensures that that position is not subject to being cut or diminished in any way through restrictions on the general fund. So I support this amendment. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: I understand the reasoning about trying to guarantee that money comes in here but there are provisions already to use PONC funds to hire people to do this. I have a major concern with using...placing staff positions in the Charter. I think that we should use the capabilities that already exist there and I understand the other comments are corning from but I don't feel that this rises to the issue of a Charter Amendment. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Roehrig. MR. ROEHRIG: Yeah, I think this may be just a typo observation maybe but the section talks about the acquisition of lands and easements but this thing that is Page 93 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 proposed is only... speaks about lands and properties, not a big deal, but it doesn't mention easements. CHR. ADAMS: If you can show me where you are talking about. MR. ROEHRIG: Acquire lands and easements, but over here it just talked about properties and land. It doesn't mention easements also. Do you see... CHR. ADAMS: I do. I understand. Right. Right. So, are you, are you just drawing our attention to that or are you making an amendment? MR. ROEHRIG: Yeah, it may be insignificant but to have consistent language, maybe having easements in there would make sense. CHR. ADAMS: So what the Commissioner is drawing our attention to is that in CA -9, as amended, the items in 10-15, subsection (C), sub (1), talks about purchase and otherwise acquire lands and easements in the County of Hawai`i etc. In subs 3, it talks about funding a senior staff person dedicated only to the administration of provisions of the section who would be employed... but not limited to colon- assisting the public with applications for acquisition, assisting the Public Access, the Commission with its prioritization, negotiation acquisition of eligible properties etc. And so as I understand what you are saying is that the acquisition of the lands is included but not of the easements? MR. ROEHRIG: Correct. CHR. ADAMS: Are you making an amendment? MR. ROEHRIG: I don't know if it is worth amendment. You know, maybe I am getting picky, but to make it clear and consistent, it should probably add easements in there. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Hamano. MR. HAMANO: Yes, I agree with Commissioner Hopkins I do not believe that the Charter should contain provisions you know, funding staff positions. I don't think that should be in the Charter, number one. Number two, I have a concern that this particular proposal is in conflict with the proposal of CA -7 which I believe we passed initial reading or something, which essentially deletes this section. So, I think there is a problem here with passing. CHR. ADAMS: Thanks. Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: I speak in support of the amendment. I don't think that... CHR. ADAMS: We don't have an amendment. We have a motion. Page 94 Hawai` i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MS. TODD: This proposed Charter Amendment. CHR. ADAMS: Ah, I understand. MS. TODD: Okay. And, I don't have a problem with the word easement not being there because it talks about acquisition and if you go up above, it talks about acquiring lands and easements, so acquisition. When you read it in conjunction with C, subsection one, acquisition would refer to lands and easements because it doesn't say acquisition of land, it says acquisition and so I feel that that is included in that. I don't have a problem if it bothers Commissioner Roehrig inserting some language that you are talking about both lands and easements. And I don't think that it is necessarily in conflict because the amendment would only amend with other Charter proposals because this would only amend by adding a staff person and I think that the reason that you want to have it in the Charter is because the prior language in this section of the Charter says "the monies in this funds shall be used solely to do the following", and it has been interpreted to mean that they cannot use the funds to pay for a staff position and the reason that people were proposing this amendment was to provide that the funds could actually pay for a staff person rather than having a staff person that has to be paid out of general fund monies. Right now the way this provision of the Charter is interpreted, the money cannot be used to pay for the salary of a staff person and while I think there is some language about you being able to hire people to... I'd have to look at the County Code, where you can do appraisals and stuff because that's directly related. Up until now it has been interpreted that the staff has to be paid out of general fund. That supports the PONC Commission. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: I also support the motion on the table. I think this will strengthen the fund and the mission of the PONC in using the monies that are collected --in a timely manner, and I think that for us here on this island, it is critical that we continue to preserve our open spaces and our precious natural resources and that gives us a leg up on the other islands in our economic engine of tourism and I think that where we can strengthen this by improving the implementation with a staff person is a very positive step. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioners. Commissioner Saquing. MS. SAQUING: I too support this amendment particularly because of the sheer amount that's involved in the PONC fund. Having a designated, dedicated person to focus their attention in managing it outside of other departments and as Commissioner Leithead-Todd mentioned, it is kind of protected under this Charter Amendment if it goes that route, so I support it as well. Page 95 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: This is more a question for Commissioner Leithead-Todd. So, the problem here is basically the interpretation by some attorneys that says that this money cannot be used to hire anybody although from my... when we talk about acquisition of property, we know that we have to hire people to do things for us, so do we actually need to define the position as a whole thing here or just clearly state and this includes staff position, just a little minor modification saying that the money can be used including... for costs involved in the purchase of this, not just paying for the land. MS. TODD: I think the rationale behind the proposal was one the current interpretation that staff positions... the money can be used to pay for escrow, it can be used to pay for things that are traditionally involved in acquiring land, like paying for an appraisal. But, for a staff position, the... my understanding what that those positions cannot be paid for with this fund and that that is the current interpretation of the language here and I don't have a problem with, if you want to come up with other language that would say that the funds can be used for that or you want to clarify that it can also be used for things if you think that the language here means that you can't use it to hire appraisers and stuff and think ah, I never thought that that was the issue, but this was to one, create a position dedicated to managing it, to ensure that there was funding for that position irrespective of what happened to the general fund and the County budget. Because you know, here is the process 1 think, is that at one point this year the County was facing because of the lava inundation, a shortfall of 17 million dollars and you say well, hey, far more important to deal with that disaster so this position that is currently handing PONC acquisitions, we are going to focus him on FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) and other things and so you divert their attention. I am not saying that that is occurring, I am just saying that under the current structure you can do that. And the concern was that one of the reasons that some of the acquisitions have not moved forward is that the Administration had the ability to take the person and divide their duties up amongst other responsibilities as opposed to just purely being focused on PONC and so that therefore there were missed opportunities. There were purchases that maybe we couldn't move fast enough on because we didn't have that dedicated staff. So, this was proposed to a great extent by people who drafted and put forward the PONC proposals in the first place. Because they wanted to come forward and say hey, we think that this was an oversight. We think we should have a dedicated staff person, and we think that that would actually be better for the management not only of the fund, but of the properties, because we have an ongoing problem that once we acquire the land, we need somebody dedicated and overseeing the management. Now they have interpreted that you can do grants to community organizations to maintain, to clean the land, to do removal of debris and other things, but it is just that the problem has been the dedicated staff person. Now, if you think we need to play with this language a little bit more and get Page 96 Hawaii County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 more clarity, I think we can do that, but I would at least like this to move forward and keep it alive. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: is there any other discussion? Let's vote on the motion then by roll call please. As amended. MR. HENRICKS: On the motion to pass CA -9 as amended on initial approval, Mr. Bergin (aye), Ms. Galimba (aye), Mr. Hamano (naye), Mr. Hopkins (naye), Ms. Leithead-Todd (aye), Ms. Rice (aye), Mr. Roehrig (aye), Ms. Saquing (aye), Ms. Springer (aye), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (aye), Chair Adams (aye). Chair Adams, you have nine votes in favor. Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -9, as amended, on initial approval was carried by the To Approve following voice vote: CA -9, Draft 2 (Approved): Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 9 Noes: Commissioners Hamann, and Hopkins — 2 Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: The motion to approve Charter amendment No. 9 for initial approval passes and is moved forward to first reading. At this point, I would like to take a brief ten minute recess without objection. RECESS: At 2:49 p.m., the Chair called for a recess. RECONVENE: The meeting reconvened at 3:02 p.m. CHR. ADAMS: Item No. 4 under New Business is Communication No. 25 that transmitted Charter Amendment 10 for initial approval, which is a proposal to amend Section No. 13-28 in the Charter to provide that prior to taking effect, any salary adjustment approved by the Salary Commission be approved by the County Council and the Mayor without modification, as submitted by Commissioner Hopkins. This particular Charter amendment was tabled. I would entertain a motion to remove this from the table. MR. HENRICKS: Actually it was not. CHR. ADAMS: I am looking at, you know... Page 97 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MR. HENRICKS: It's okay. Yes, it was... ahh. CHR. ADAMS: No, the Chair is incorrect once again. Alright. Yeah, you can put that in the minutes too. Alright, so we don't have this tabled even though my notes say that. So, I would entertain a motion because that has not been made yet since we haven't yet taken it up, I would entertain a motion to approve Charter Amendment No. 10 and forward it for first reading. Is there such a motion? MR. HOPKINS: So moved. CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Hopkins and seconded by Commissioner Galimba to approve on initial— make an initial approval to amend Section No. 13-28 as I just noted. Discussion? Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: The, when the creation of the Salary Commission was put in place, it was to deal with what was felt to be the occasional abuses and political... I'll use the word interference or partisanship regarding salaries and that—in the old system. The Commission I think has done very well in removing those issues of that but at the same time in doing so, it has put off to an unelected body the establishment of salaries for the highest levels of the County and it also has put in with the body that they don't have to pay any attention to what the budgets are, or the budget situation is, now they may, but they are not required to. Further, it has removed the responsibility for setting wages and stuff from our elected officials and has given them cover, so they just say well, Salary Commission said this, we have to implement it. I don't think that that's --1 think that that responsibility has to be returned to our elected officials. Now, 1 think that we want to keep the best of what the Salary Commission has, they can make the recommendations and everything on that, but I don't think that just because they make a recommendation, that it has to be accepted. I think that the County Council and the Mayor has to accept responsibility for implementing those wages, wage increases, and to take out the keyword in this one is when the Salary Commission makes its report, the County Council cannot and the Mayor, they cannot modify that. They either have to accept it, or vote it down and Utile, if we are having budget difficulties, I think we need to have that ability to vote it down and say "no, we are not going to accept it". So, the reasons for this was one, to deal with the problems that we have to have the ability to vote down increases for our highest paid County officials and secondly, we need to put responsibility back on Council and the Mayor. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice. Page 98 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MS. RICE: I have a question. Maybe Jon can answer this, or J. In the modification here, or the amendment G, it says "any adjustment approved by the Salary Commission shall be approved without modification." So, does that give the Council or the Mayor the option of not approving it? MR. HENRICKS: So, and 1 is going to follow up should he not be in 100% consensus with what I am about to say, the way I read this would work is that Salary Commission would make its decisions, we go to the Council first because of the wording here, and the Council would not be allowed to make any changes, they would have to approve what is provided to them by at least six votes of the nine member Council, if you don't get six votes, it would not go to the Mayor. If you get six votes, it would then go to the Mayor for like a ratification of the Council's approval. Is that how you had intended this to read? MR. HOPKINS: That's how I intended it. MR. HENRICKS: That is how I read it. MS. RICE: And that's the way it would be interpreted based on this? MR. HENRICKS: That's fairly clear to me. MS. RICE: Okay. MR. YOSHIMOTO: I would concur. MS. RICE: Alright. That's my question. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Any other discussion? Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: As I am going through here trying to find Coinrnunication No. 25, and I guess maybe it is... it is just before? I was looking under Communications. 1 have to go back and forth. Um, so there was an earlier one that we had looked at on the Salary Commission. This is in addition to it? MR. HENRICKS: What you may have been looking at previously, would have been when we provided you with what was recently approved at the 2018 general election, which was provided by ordinance of the Council. MS. TODD: Okay. MR. HENRICKS: As an amendment to the same... MS. TODD: And that was already, that was already passed? Page 99 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MR. HENRICKS: Yes, and if for discussion purposes, that would be Subsections E and F which is now part of the 2018 edition of the Charter. MS. TODD: Okay. I am going to speak against this proposal. Number one, the requirement that it is modification by two-thirds, basically a super majority, as opposed to just a majority makes it difficult, and maybe that is just because I used to sit on a Council where we had, you know, four Republicans and five Democrats, or five Republicans and four Democrats, and even though it is non- partisan now, you have those splits, so that basically if you had a majority in favor of something but you had you know, four members of a minority that wanted to hold things up, you know, they could. The other problern that I have with this is having watched over years because, I am going to tell you frankly that what goes on is a Mayor appoints people or maybe he doesn't appoint people, so you have a Salary Commission that can't function because you don't have members to vote on it, they rarely you know for years if there was a Salary Commission, they weren't corning forward with proposals. You had one proposal going back to I think the first year of Mayor Kim's first term and that was the one where they did a tier, where you started at ninety-nine, and then the second year, you were in as a Department Head then you went to a hundred and five, and after so many years, then you went to a hundred and eight. And their what happened—and that was in place for a number of years, so that existing cabinet people got pay raises that went from like $99,000 to $105,000 to $108,000 and there was a step process. A problem occurred when Mayor Kenoi got elected because an interpretation by the head of personnel, or civil service at that time, who interpreted it as everybody had to start all over again at $99,000, so what happened is even though the budget had a salary of $105,000 or $108,000 for positions, people had to go back to $99,000 and sometimes the same person. So that Lincoln Ashida who had been Corporation Counsel under Mayor Kim for eight years, his salary went from $105,000 to $99,000 even though he was being reappointed to the same position he had held for eight years, and a number of other Commissioners, and then the Salary Commission didn't take up the issue and what happened is then you had the furloughs, the two-day furloughs, so people's salaries went from $105,000 or $108,000 where they were supposed to be, to $99,000 to $90,000 dollars, even though they still had to work, then it went to $94,000 because they went to one furlough day, and that happened not just to cabinet heads, it happened to all the County attorneys, both in the Prosecuting Attorney's office as well as in the Office of Corporation Counsel because their salaries are pegged to the cabinet heads. So what you started having was a number of people started leaving the Office of Corporation Counsel because they started saying "well, I can make more money doing Wills and Trusts." So, you had an exodus and you have other people who are willing to come, but they went 11 years without a pay raise and brouha over Page 100. Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 the last pay raise is that the Salary Commission looked at that 11 year period, they basically did a CPI (Consumer Price Index) inflation calculator and said what is the value of $99,000 back in 2006 versus now, they looked at the pay raises that had been passed by the County Councils for all the union positions, the fact that the union positions also got overtime, so you had a situation where your Police Chief and your Fire Chief were making significantly less money running the department than they would have remained in the Police Department. If you remained as Police Captain, you could make thousands of dollars more in pay than the Chief, and yet the Chief has to show up for every emergency, and so they were having difficulty talking people in to taking Deputy Chief positions because you lose your overtime. I have no problem if every year they were going to do this, but what happens is that even when you have a Salary Commission that's supposedly independent, they take their signals from the Administration and sometimes they just sit on it and don't do anything. And I saw County Councils prior to the creation of the Salary Commission that because they are at odds with the Mayor, were unwilling to give any of the Mayor's cabinet people pay raises, so they would just suck it, or sock it maybe instead. The reason the Salary Commission was created and made independent was two- fold. One... CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Todd, we have gone, according to our rules over five minutes without objection, have Commissioner Todd summarize her comments. MS. TODD: Okay. The other thing is, I don't think the County Council should vote on their own pay raises, and I don't think they should be in a position to determine whether the Mayor gets a pay raise or not. I prefer having the Salary Commission do that. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Any other discussion? Then let's vote on the motion to approve Charter Amendment No. 10, as an initial approval, by roll call. MR. HENRICKS: On the motion to pass CA -10 on initial approval, Mr. Bergin (aye), Ms. Galimba (aye), Mr. Hamano (aye), Mr. Hopkins (aye), Ms. Leithead- Todd (naye), Ms. Rice (naye), Mr. Roehrig (aye), Ms. Saquing (naye), Ms. Springer (naye), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (naye), Chair Adams (naye). Chair Adams you have five votes in favor. Page 101 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 Vote on Motion To Approve CA -10 (Failed): AGENDA ITEMS FOR NEXT REGULARLY SCHEDULED MEETING: The motion call vote: Ayes: Noes: Absent: Excused: to pass CA -10 on initial approval failed by the following roll Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano, Hopkins, Roehrig — 5 Commissioners Rice, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 6 None. None. CHR. ADAMS: The motion to approve, an initial approval for Charter Amendment No. 10 fails for lack of a majority. That concludes our New Business. We had our Reports already, as we look through our agenda... I am sorry, is there questions here? We have a variety of conversations going on as we are moving on. Is there some discussion? A question regarding the last vote? Okay. The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business, Agenda Items for the Next Regularly Scheduled Meeting. CHR. ADAMS: As we move through the agenda for December 14th, we already had the Executive Session referral and conversation, we would then move into the Agenda Items for the Next Regularly Scheduled Meeting. Are there any suggestions from Commissioners on future agenda items? We will be obviously considering Charter Amendment Proposals, I would remind Commissioners that according to our rules, 11 days prior to the ineeting is when we have asked that those amendments, those proposals be provided to our staff. We have not yet identified a date although we have a pretty good idea, so that may be sooner than one thinks for the next meeting. Okay. MS. TODD: Mr. Chair. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: Our next meeting is the 25th? CHR. ADAMS: We were just about to get to that. MS. TODD: I am just counting 11 days back. Page 102 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 CHR. ADAMS: And that would be the 14th, but we are not there yet. MS. TODD: Okay. MEETING The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of ANNOUNCEMENT: business, Meeting Announcement. CHR. ADAMS: So we can do that math in a second. Alright. In Announcements, the next regular meeting would be the meeting for January, that would be a meeting that would be held in Kona according to our rules. When we had the conversation about having this meeting which was a continuation, reconvening of the December 14th meeting, this had been scheduled initially or in our rules would be scheduled as the regular January meeting. We pushed that off, so based on the conversation that we had back in December, and any particular conversations that we have today, January 25, which is two weeks from today would be the January meeting, regular meeting, not a special meeting. Anybody have any problems with January 25th? Okay, so, we will make January 25th, 1:30 p.m. at Building A, the Council Chambers at the West Hawaii Civic Center in Kailua Kona, is our next regular meeting. That would also mean that in February we would revert back to our regular schedule so much as we did in October and November, the next meeting would be the second Friday in February, and that would be here in Hilo. Okay, so we will not get ahead of ourselves, but that's what the schedule calls for according to our rules, we will see how well we do on January 25th in dealing with the items that we find on the agenda. I would like to just say, take the Chairman's prerogative to one, thank the staff. One for all the work that they do in terms of as was discussed prior in, as one of the Commissioners mentioned earlier, we have received a significant amount of communications. That has to start and be prepared and sent to us and we appreciate the staffs work in doing that. There are a variety of procedural things that are also considered as we move through this particular activity and I personally am very thankful for the staff and their support as we try and make sure that we are doing the right thing in the right way. Also, there's food back there and so, I would encourage you before you leave, to grab some of it since it is for us as it is alright? Okay. So, our next meeting then is January 25th. Is there any other items for the... and if I may, just one more comment, and I will probably live to regret this, but I do appreciate the media being here and making sure that we have the opportunity to, that the public has the opportunity to hear what is happening in the process of looking at a very important document, the Charter of this County, so having said that, this meeting—I would entertain a motion to adjourn. MS. GALIMBA: So moved. Page 103 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -6 December 14, 2018 MS. TODD: Second. CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved and seconded, all in favor (aye). Meeting adjourned. Vote on Motion There being no further business, at 3:22 p.m. Commissioner Galimba moved that Adjourn the meeting be adjourned. Seconded by Commissioner Todd and carried by the (Approved): following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano, Hopkins, Rice Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 11 Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Commission Approval: January 25, 2019 glass Shipman A ins, Chair =2020 Hawai`i County Charter Commission Page 104