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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN CHARTER 2019-01-25 (2018-2020)Hawaii County Charter Commission 7th Session West Hawai`i Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawai`i January 25, 2019 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Hawai`i County Charter Commission was called to ORDER: order at 1:39 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Mr. Douglass Shipman Adams, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Douglass Shipman Adams, Chair Ms. Jennifer Zelko-Schlueter, Vice Chair Mr. William Carthage Bergin, Commissioner Ms. Michelle Galirnba, Commissioner Mr. Paul K. Hamann, Commissioner Mr. Kevin D. Hopkins, Commissioner Ms. Sarah H. Rice, Commissioner Mr. Christopher John Imiloa Roehrig, Commissioner Ms. Marcia A. K. Saquing, Commissioner Ms. Donna Mae Springer, Commissioner Ms. Bobby Jean Leithead Todd, Commissioner Also Present: Mr. J Yoshimoto, Commission Attorney Mr. Jon Henricks, Commission Analyst Ms. Shannon Magnuson, Commission Secretary Mr. Scott Ruedy, Dep. Executive Assistant to Council Chair Ms. Murannoto, Council Services Coordinator (Hilo Courtesy Site) Ms. Goodenow, Council Services Assistant 11 (Hilo Courtesy Site) CHR. ADAMS: Welcome to the 7th session of the 2018-2020 Hawai`i County Charter Commission. This is the 25th of January at 1:39 p.rn. 1 would ask that if you have communication devices that you either turn them off or put them on silent. 1 would appreciate that. Thank you. And we are going to call this meeting to order. Mr. Henricks if you could please call the roll. Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: SHANNON MATSON: MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Bergin (here), Ms. Galimba (here), Mr. Hamann (here), Mr. Hopkins (here), Ms. Leithead-Todd (present), Ms. Rice (present), Mr. Roehrig (here), Ms. Saquing (here), Ms. Springer (here), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (here), Chair Adams (here). Chair Adams, you have 11 members in attendance. The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business, Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much Mr. Henricks. I am just looking, okay, at this point I would make a couple of comments. One is for Commissioners, when we get to the part where we are having our discussion, if you could do something like raise your hand or something because I am not able to look at your... these don't have the lights right, so for me to be able to understand who would like to speak, let me know okay. At this time we will entertain statements from the public. Again, I would ask those who are speaking before the Commission, to please provide your name when you get to the table, and the agenda item that you are speaking on if it is more than one, so let me say it this way, if it is two or more, we will be limiting the time to six minutes max okay, so that way everybody has a fair shot at being able to speak. Without objection? Okay. I understand that we have in Hilo eight and we have at least 18 here in Kona. So, let's start with Hilo and then we will get to our friends here in Kona. MS. GOODENOW: Yes, good evening Mr. Chair. Our first two testifiers are Shannon Matson, she is speaking on a total of four items, and she is to be followed by Cory Harden who is speaking on a total of three items. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, please identify the agenda items. That would be much appreciated. Proposal No. CA -7, CA -8, and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. MATSON: Okay, hi, this is Shannon Matson. I am speaking on behalf of myself, but I am also the Vice -Chair for the East Hawai`i County Democrats. I am speaking first on 21.55 about CA -7 and I am in opposition to this. I believe that we need to keep the Public Access, Open Space, Natural Resources Preservation Fund as it was designated based on the vote by the people. So I don't think that there should be any amendments or changes to that at this time. The next item I am speaking on is, and some of these are overlapping, so I am just going to go down all of them and say which ones I am here in opposition of or support and then tell you a little bit more. So the next one is CA -8 and that is changing the terms of Council Members from four consecutive two-year terms to two consecutive four-year terns. I am also in opposition to that. Page 2 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 I support CA -9 to create a staff position to deal with the Two Percent Land Fund and then the last one that I was going to speak on is ah, sorry, CA -13 and I am in opposition for that as well as far as allowing the Mayor to use those two percent funds or any special fund for emergency because I don't ever think that that was the intention of the two percent land fund that the people voted in support of. And, I don't know if you guys can see me over there but I have got my hands full right now, so I can't give a more detailed testimony at this moment, but my testimony is that if we do make any of these changes that there needs to be adequate time and education for the public. That these are things that that the public voted on in support of multiple times in the past, so if there is going to be changes, it needs to be really well publicized and we need to have time for the public to be informed and able to respond adequately and this feels to me at least, like it just kind of came out of nowhere and I know you guys do a lot of decision making and work on behalf of the public and we need to have the public's trust that you guys are going to represent us well and uphold the things that we vote on and protect public spaces and open land, so thank you so much and yeah, thanks for this time. Yeah. Okay. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Next speaker. CORY HARDEN: Proposal No. CA -7, and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. HARDEN: Good afternoon, Cory Harden speaking for myself. Thank you folks for your service on the Commission. Three items... I am opposing CA -7 which would water down the two percent land fund. I do think the ad hoc committee should be commended for raising a lot of questions that needed to be explored, but I think that we need to keep a robust two percent fund. There used to be some language about increased uses for the maintenance fund. I don't see that anymore. I wish it was still in there. I do support using the maintenance fund for trails, portable toilets, disability accommodations, and payment of workers who are doing maintenance. We need to keep a robust fund at two percent so that there are enough funds so that we can move quickly when lands become available. Other Counties do have a lower rate but they have less land area and they are really built up maybe because they didn't have a robust two percent fund. And then we need two percent toward a staff person and for maintenance. Several Commissioners have pointed out that if we do two percent now we can buy land before prices go up and then the land would be permanently lost. If we have good open spaces that may reduce the need for other programs. You can prevent development in areas prone to flooding or areas so remote that it is really hard to provide police and fire services. And open spaces may reduce the need for police and social services by providing places for people to gather and relax, joining communities together to care for special places, connecting people to their Page 3 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 cultural heritage, and refreshing people's spirits with beauty and maybe you won't need so many police. We have a lot of lands in conservation but it is not protected and communities end up finding round after round of developers attempts at rezoning and many government resources go into refereeing the fights. You know, Planning Commission, County Council, Land Use Conunission, and on and on. The conflicts divide communities and drain a lot of resources from communities and government that could be put to better use. On CA -9 I support CA -9 for a staff person for the two percent land fund. With our experience we see we need a staff person to ensure that taxpayer money is used effectively to preserve our special places and so we don't lose opportunities to actually get a return on that taxpayer investment. On CA -13 I oppose it. That is regarding emergency...using two percent for emergencies. I do support planning for emergencies but how would the County pay back money that it didn't have in the first place? We all know how easy it is to run up a credit card and I would think that the money shouldn't be so easy to get. For example, you would usually have a strict definition of emergency, you might require first exhausting other sources like Federal Emergency Management money, you might require a two-thirds vote of County Council, maybe a vote by the Public Open Space Board, and it might be good to identify specific funds, not just leave the two percent fund the only one. For example there is a disaster relief fund, there is travel funds, there is County Council discretionary funds... the basic issue in all of these is there is wide support for the two percent program and we should not water it down so that it is a waste of taxpayer money. We should have a strong program that gives tax payers a good return on their investment. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If I could ask the next speaker to please provide us with your name and the agenda items that you are speaking to please. KAREN CLARKSON: Proposal No. CA -7, and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. CLARKSON: Okay. Karen Clarkson and I will be speaking on CA -13, CA - 7, and CA -9. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If you could speak into the mic, it is hard to hear you. MS. CLARKSON: Okay. Okay. I am here to ask you to please reject putting CA -13 on the ballot. The Mayor or the Council should not have so much clout to overturn what we have voted for for three times by continuing to try to get rid of it or reduce it to almost nothing. The County has been dragging its feet on Page 4 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 purchasing land and CA -13 could allow the fund to be completely raided by the Administration for anything the Mayor or the Council considers an emergency. That is not acceptable. Please reject CA -7 which reduces the percentage for the land fund by almost two - third which would make it impossible to purchase any significant lands. It would also allow the Administration to remove the maintenance fund, where it would be at the whims of the Mayor and Council. The deletion of the language that protects the ownership of the public... it would give the Administration the power to sell it. Who would be willing to give matching funds for land if they know the County could eventually sell the land? These two charter amendments are a slap in the face to the citizens who have clearly supported the land fund. Please go forward to put CA -9 on the ballot. It is the only insurance or assurance that the lands will be administered and open up possibilities for stewardship by members of the public and for other funding. Thank you very much. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Our next speaker please. DWIGHT VICENTE: Communication No. 4 and Communication No. 7, commenting. MR. VICENTE: Good afternoon my name is Dwight Vicente. I am representing the Hawaiian Kingdom. Communication No. 2, Number 6, Communication 24.38. The problem with the lands here you have the 2.4 million acres under lease contract with 25 year term contract under King Kalakaua. The problem was those people there were leasing lands when the lease ended, they claimed they owned the land. And the other problem is in 1898 the Americans calling themselves the Republic of Hawai`i gave to the United States 1.8 million acres of crown and government lands which they rebranded in 1920 as Hawaiian Homes and they applied the Public Trust Doctrine to it. These lands are actually crown and government lands, all subject to native tenant rights but yet, you will find nowhere in the County Charter that they recognize native tenant rights to the land. Number 7, the director is applying foreign law to the crown and government lands. In other words they are doing land speculation based on the Northwest Ordinance of 1787. These are crown and government lands not to be speculated on. They are all subject to native tenant rights. So a lot of the information or what little information that the director has, there is a large gap in the history. They will tell you it is either a royal land patent or government land grant and they will disappear and come up with something new. A new scheme that try to divert the attention from the crown and government lands to now somebody owns—some individual foreigner owns these public, these crown and government lands. This Kingdom has no public lands. Public lands is the Indian lands in the Ohio River Valley. It doesn't extend in any way, shape, or form to this Kingdom. The Page 5 Hawaii County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 Reciprocity Treaty of 1875 was not a treaty because King Kalakaua did not sign it nor did the U.S. President Grant sign it and they rely on that in Downes vs. Bidwell, Sai vs. Clinton, and Sai vs. Trump. It places Kingdom under Article 4, Section 3, Clause 2, of the U.S. Constitution. There is no amendment that changes the original constitution that was adopted September, 1787 and I shall reserve the rights of this Kingdom under the Queen's Protest of January 17, 1893 against U.S. Minister Stevens has yet to make its way to U.S. Supreme Court, Article 3, Section 2, Clause 2, original but limited jurisdiction, and the other one is the question of the constitutionality of the 1875 reciprocity treaty which was no treaty according to the history that King Kalakaua did not do it and the U.S. President Grant did. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Our next speaker from Hilo please. RUSSELL RUDERMAN: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -8 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. SENATOR RUDERMAN: Aloha my name is Russell Ruderrnan. Thank you for letting me speak and I want to thank all of you for your service. All the Commission members. CHR. ADAMS: Senator, please, it is hard to hear you. SENATOR RUDERMAN: Okay, I will talk a little louder. CHR. ADAMS: Thanks. SENATOR RUDERMAN: Thank you all for your service on the Commission. I am here to speak on 23.1 and 21.55. I will briefly touch on the change to four- year terms. I oppose that. I remember when we voted to change our Council terms to two-year terms and single member elected districts and I think that everyone would agree that we have had a more responsive Council ever since. The reason why is because you have to be more in touch with your community to come back and campaign every two years. As an elected official, I know what a hassle it is to campaign but I also know that the benefits of being connected to the community far outweigh those hassles. I forgot to introduce myself. I am Russell Rudennan. I am a businessman here on the Big Island employing more than 200 people, and I am also a State Senator from Puna and Ka '11. I wish I could see you folks better. I hope that someday you get a camera that focuses, but thank you for listening to me. My main reason for being here and I usually stay out of County business as you know, but you know, I watched Debbie Hecht and her crew pass this open space initiative many years ago. I saw her come back and do it again and then do it again, and that's pretty remarkable. I don't think there is an example in our history of three times the people voting in the exact same way on essentially similar issue. I believe the Page 6 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 LESLIE COLE -BROOKS: vote was more than 60 percent each time. That takes a lot of work. I think blank ballots were counted as a no, so it is an even bigger victory. The citizens spoke loudly, clearly, and repeatedly that we believe it is so important to preserve our open space, that we should have it as this Charter condition. I have heard it said that other islands don't have the two percent, but other islands don't have as much land to protect either. I think that as you know, there is a bit of a crisis in terms of our faith in government by the people in terms of the cynicism in our land and this effort to undo this election by the people is a prime example of it. I think you will be promoting cynicism and the feeling like it doesn't matter what we say or do, someone is going to undo it anyway. I believe it is a terrible mistake to even put this back on the ballot. I understand that the County has to balance its budget. I understand that it is difficult. But that is not a reason to undo democracy instead of balancing the budget. Difficult decisions have to be made. But preserving open space is... we have one shot at it. As soon as it is gone, it is gone, and it is gone forever, and the people of our island have spoken that we really care about preserving open space enough to spend two percent on it. I know that the County is considering increasing the GE (General Excise) surcharge from a quarter percent to a half a percent, making it permanent, and I know that they have asked the Legislature through me to allow for an exemption so they can spend that money on things besides transportation. That tells me that they don't need all of that new money for transportation. There is a large influx of new money into the County budget as soon as we take that step that makes this unnecessary. It is a much bigger pot of money than this. I know that balancing the budget is difficult but it is also kind of simple. We have to make the tough decisions. Raising the half a percent, it should have been done before but now we have one more chance to do it and I don't see how anyone can say we are desperate for money before we have done that. So please, I ask you to stop subverting our democracy. In this age of cynicism, I still believe in democracy and I am asking you to help everyone else believe in it too. I want you to be an example. Do the right thing, and support the people's expressed wish to preserve our open space in perpetuity. It is worth money. It is worth some trouble. It is worth doing the right thing. Thank you very much. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. (Applause). Excuse me, excuse me, we are not doing that, okay? We are not doing that, please. Thank you. May I have the next speaker please. Proposal No. CA -7 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. COLE -BROOKS: Aloha, My name is Leslie Cole -Brooks. I am here on my behalf. I submitted written testimony but I would just like to emphasize a few Page 7 Hawaii County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 things, so I am here for CA -7 and CA -9. So first regarding CA -7, I am strongly opposed to this proposed amendment. This is kind of a good follow-up to Senator Rudennan because I recently moved from Oahu and I have been working in conservation and energy, and environmental concerns there for the last ten years and just in case everyone doesn't know, this fund is greatly admired in the neighbor islands and it is seen as something that the other counties and other jurisdictions, and other states wish to emulate, so to reduce the fund and dial that back would be such a step backwards for the Big Island, but also a real disappointment and very disheartening to others that are really looking to what you have done already and the work that the Council has done to have this fund in place. So I just thought that kind of an interesting voice to hear from what is going on in the neighbor islands regarding this fund. Also there are a few aspects of the proposal under CA -7 that I find really disturbing that I wanted to speak to. It is the possibility to suspend the fund by a two-thirds vote of the Commission or by just a singular vote I assume by the Director of Finance should it be found needed, necessary to prevent a reduction in the provision of public services. It just seems that that would just create a situation where you could do it at any time because as we all know, all of us who balance budgets and then for you especially with your very difficult job of having to deal with the finances, there is always a reason. There would always be a reason to do that. You can always come up with some reason that something needs to be funded, so we need to just stay strong and know that this fund is here for the voters. That it is in place for a very necessary purpose. The other thing that struck me when I read through the text of the changes is that I felt like there was an assumption there that the preservation of open land and looking after our pristine natural resources is not in fact a public service, but I see it very strongly as part of the responsibilities and the kuleana of the County and of all of your difficult jobs to put that as part of what needs to be done that is a part of the public service that we are really counting on. So I really ask that you put this CA -7 aside and instead to support CA -9 which is really the right way to go because what it does is it puts someone in place that could really look after this fund and be efficient and proactive and really see to it that lands that need to be preserved—that it's done on time and quickly and fairly. That I think is the solution to any kind of concerns and questions, and of course the covenant that says that these lands must be kept in perpetuity needs to stay. If it could just get sold off, that would greatly weaken the intent behind the fund. I think there are other means that could be utilized that other counties are using that would still ensure that the lands are always kept in perpetuity once taxpayer dollars are used in order to (inaudible) the land. Well thank you very much and thank you for the opportunity to testify. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Next speaker from Hilo please. Page 8 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 JAERICK MEDEIROS -GARCIA: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MR. MEDEIROS-GARCIA: Aloha my name is Jaerick Medeiros-Garcia and I am from Pepeekeo Shoreline Fishing Association. I am here in support of CA -9 which I am opposed to CA -7 and CA -13. I think it is important that we keep this fund going. This is actually the last chance that we have of keeping Hawai`i paradise. Without this we not going to be able to get this land that our local people can fish, you know, shoreline fish and a lot of places we have lost that option already, so I am here opposing seven and 13 on this stuff. The Senator spoke and took everything out of my mouth, but yeah, I oppose CA -7 and CA -13 and I support CA -9. Thank you for your time. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. And then I believe we have our eighth speaker from Hilo. If 1 could have our first two speakers from Kona please come to the table and that would be Brenda Ford and Deborah Ward please. Thank you. So Hilo go ahead. MS. GOODENOW: Excuse me Mr. Chair, we actually have a total of nine speakers. CHR. ADAMS: I understand. I understand we have nine. We will get to our ninth down the road. Thank you. So, but we have our eight, speaker number eight. Thank you. GEOFF SHAW: Hello my name is Geoff Shaw and pretty much like almost everybody here supporting County, CA -9 and opposed to CA -7 and CA -13. It seems like the initiative process hasn't been respected by the government officials that are supposed to be executing them and that has to stop. I mean is there anything more democratic than the initiative process? You know, the people directly vote on a specific thing and it should be a no brainer that once the people vote and make it clear that this is something they want, just execute it. You know, it is... I don't know what the problem is, why the governrnent feels like they need to undermine the will of the people. I mean aren't you supposed to be serving the people? Is that not what your intent is? I don't know who you are serving but if you are trying to undermine a thing that people have voted on three different times then you are not serving their interests and I guess it is as simple as that. Just start serving the people's interest when we vote on something you know, especially over 60 percent. I mean how many things do 60 percent of the people agree on? Just administer it and make it work and creating a position for somebody to administer it would be a good start. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. We will go here to Kona and we will start with Ms. Ford. Page 9 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 BRENDA FORD: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. FORD: Thank you very much. My name is Brenda Ford. I am a former County Council member. I served four consecutive terms. I am also the co-author with Debbie Hecht of the PONC (Public Access, Open Space and Natural Resources Preservation Commission) fund and the PONC maintenance fund which we ultimately had to put into the Charter to stop Mayors from stealing the money or not funding this PONC fund. Let me start though with the two-year to four-year terms. I oppose four-year terms. While on the Council I can tell you that I worked with some very talented, brilliant, hard-working, constituent focused Council members. I also worked with some liars, some lazy people who only showed up to vote and in fact some of those people used to leave the council chamber during testimony. They didn't care what the public had to say. They already knew what they were going to do. We need to be able to get rid of those types of Council members as quickly as possible without going through recall which is expensive and time consuming or doing an impeachment type process which requires a civil case in court. We shouldn't be doing that. I hear people talking all the time about how hard it is to run for a position that you are already working in and I am telling you it is the truth. It is very hard to do it. It means you have to work extra hard to get out and meet your constituency and convince them that you are doing the job they want you to do. By the way, they know you are doing the job or they know you are not doing the job. Some of the people that I discuss and I will not be mentioning names, sometimes served only one teen, sometimes two terns. So, the public is very aware what Council members do and we need to trust them. We need to be focused on the people. It is not about the comfort of a Council member and oh, do they have to work extra hard to win an election. It is about what the people need that person to do and if the person is really doing it. Please take into consideration the constituents that each of us have had to represent and their needs are important. The phrase servant of the people is the most important phrase you will ever learn as an elected official and there are so many elected officials who really think that when they get elected to something, they become a king or a queen, or an emperor or something else. It becomes an autocracy and that needs to stop. So I don't support the four-year terns. Now, I am going to go fast on the first two. I do not support 13, CA -13. I do not support CA -7. I do support CA -9. Here is the problem that we have got with County government. In 2011 as a Council member, I went into the Disaster and Emergency Fund and it was woefully underfunded. That is what we are supposed to be using, the funds from that. It was underfunded. I went to the Finance Department, I talked to Deanna Sako, I said "I want to create this fund with a minimum of $500,000 a year put into the emergency fund because if we get into a big problem, we aren't going to have the money." "Oh no Brenda, we can't do that. We could never support that. $250,000 is the most we will do." So, I passed Page 10 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 the bill, I got it passed $250,000. God knows what is in there now. I don't know how much money is in there. That is what the Disaster and Emergency Fund is for. The PONC fund is not to cover emergencies. They should be funding the Disaster and Emergency fund at anywhere between two and five million dollars a year and it will be a revolving fund because when you have emergencies you have to take the money out. You are going once again after the wrong pot of money when you should be fixing the Disaster and Emergency fund. You need to put... this is in the Code right now. I can leave it here for you guys to read. You need to put it in the Charter and you need to set a substantial sum of money so we don't get into this problem again. We have every problem on this island except maybe snow avalanches. Everything else we get hit with and we get hit with almost every year or every other year and now we have had a major lava eruption. We are going to need tens of millions of dollars sitting in that fund for the next disaster. We need to get this done. It is Section 2-209, is the Section and there is also the Budget Stabilization fund which I did the same thing there. Pitifully underfunded. And that is to protect us. It is a temporary supplemental fund if something disastrous happens other than an emergency, a natural disaster. You are trying to take money from the wrong fund and you are not fixing the problem where it needs to be fixed, in the Disaster and Emergency fund. Fix the problem where it needs to be fixed and leave the PONC and the maintenance funds alone. They are not emergency funds. They are for our treasured lands. You all know this. You are all intelligent. You all know what these funds are for. Don't try to fix the problem with the wrong funding source. Fix the problem where it needs to be fixed. The Disaster and Emergency fund. Thank you very much. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Ms. Ward. DEBORAH WARD: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. WARD: Aloha, my name is Deborah Ward. I am Chair of Sierra Club Moku Loa Group which is the island's group and I represent over 400 people many of whom can't be here because it is a working day and I have testified on this before so I will be brief. But we do oppose CA -7. We oppose CA -13 and we support CA -9. I wanted to elaborate on some of the points that were brought up during the last meeting to talk about some of the responses that I heard. The purchase, protection, and preservation of significant beach and fishing access is critical because as we know when you gate a community and close off the beach and provide no parking or very, very limited parking as you sometimes see at the hotels which are discriminatory and difficult and arbitrary, then you get, you end up with people that live here on the island and can't get to the water. We have significant sacred and historical sites that are not being protected. We have agricultural land that is subject to inappropriate development. And as a local farmer, I can tell you, there are plenty of beginning farmers who do not have access to land and it took me until I was in my middle 50's in order to buy the land that I am currently farming and I am finally making money as a fanner but Page 11 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 that was my goal since I was 30 and it took me that long to get a piece of land. And 1 worked at a State you know, agency so 1 don't think it is that easy. Trails, mauka areas otherwise inaccessible because of gated pieces of land are all reasons to strengthen and keep this fund. And Commissioner Roehrig mentioned last time that there was a conservation district designation for approximately 50 percent of the lands on the island and that that was sufficient to protect the land and 1 wanted to bring up my concerns about that. The conservation district designations can be changed and not by County decisions, but by members of other islands at the Board of Land and Natural Resources and these are some of the uses that are allowed in a conservation district subzone according to HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes) 13-522, and 1 will just read a few of them. "Marinas, harbors, energy conversion, astronomy facilities, mining for natural resources, commercial forestry and harving, harvesting sorry. Single family dwellings"... and then there is a general subzone 13-5-14, that says "the objective of this subzone which is a conservation district is to designate open space where specific conservation uses may not be defined but where urban use would be premature." That doesn't make it sound like there is any protection for it at all when there is urban use being proposed then it is not premature anymore, so it is a concern when you think that conservation districts will preserve land. They definitely do not. DLNR (Department of Land and Natural Resources) and the Land Use Commission can frequently and does re -characterize the land as industrial, urban, commercial, and it allows development to proceed. Mr. Roehrig's characterization of protection is not sufficient to provide the kind of permanent protection envisioned by an overwhelming number of Hawaii County residents. I'll give you some examples. Properties zoned conservation were re -zoned and beach access was limited in big hotels at Waikaloa, where 1 remember when there were vast plains of petroglyphs. They are now covered with golf courses and Kohanaiki, Mauna Lani, O`oma, Kuki`o, the Four Seasons, zoning did not protect that land. So we oppose the provision in CA -7 also, removing the protective covenant requirement. This will jeopardize our ability to leverage County and State funds, grant funds, to acquire these lands. On the other hand, we do support CA -9 because it strengthens the two percent fund that we have already voted for and it provides for Department of Finance oversight and a specific person that will do the work that needs to be done because right now everything is put on the sidelines when we have emergencies and that person is not able to do the work that is otherwise available. We also oppose CA -13 and Mrs. Ford definitely gave us a very good reason, the members of our community in Sierra Club feel the same way. The County has a designated Disaster Relief fund. This fund should be strengthened and fully funded because there is always going to be an emergency. There is always going to be a disaster that's the way this island is and we roll with it. But opening the two percent fund by some siphoning off by the Mayor at his or her discretion would set a dangerous precedent and could strip virtually any County fund at the Page 12 Hawaii County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 SAMMIE STANBRO: Mayor's discretion without the input of the Council or the voters. And so, we wholeheartedly and vehemently oppose any effort to make this fund depletable at the discretion or whim of the Mayor, and with that I will close because I know you have several other speakers. Thank you very much. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If I could ask in Kona to have Mr. Sensenig, I have got that screwed up I am sure, please come and also Topher Dean. Thank you. At this time I would like to go back to Hilo to our speaker that we have in Hilo please. Proposal No. CA -7, CA -9, and CA -13, commenting. MS. STANBRO: My name is Sammie Stanbro. Thank you all for all of the hard work that you do obviously. I can't believe that you can listen to the testimony today and not vote in favor of the two percent. I think there have been very good arguments and statements made. Mr. Ruderinan really hit the nail on the head though. It is that the people have spoken and how this small board that the Mayor has picked out can overturn the thousands and thousands of people spent the long, hard time voting for, and doing, I just don't understand. It is just not very democratic. I definitely am in support of nine. We probably should have done that in the first place so we wouldn't be in this position. Seven is a no go at all. We need to strengthen this and not... I am totally against seven. On 13, Bobby Jean, the whole idea of you know, we are very giving, loving people, if there is an emergency we want to step up. It is not that there is any hard feelings or anything but I think the points that Ms. Ford brought up is very, very clear but also I think that this is extremely vague and for the person that authored this, it is much more vague than she usually says. What I am wondering is how much? All? How much is taken? Is it going to be repaid? And I have watched things happen in our government that weren't, the people had nothing to do with it. They are huge wastes of money and to have something that has been voted on by all the people on this island and was stated earlier, the other islands are in envy of us. I mean it is not like we should lower ourselves to the common low spot that they have been stuck with and would love to be without and they would like to be higher like us and instead of us lowering ourselves because "oh well, they don't... theirs is less, so ours should be less", and the reason why it was two percent is because we are such a big island that also we have things that our Mayors put in to being that the public knows nothing about. We have a big sports field that was built on a wetland that cost millions and millions of dollars that was done without anyone's input, the public's input. That money was spent and this sports field can't be used to this day and yet all this money was spent and yet we are looking at something that all the people have voted on this open space we have put into place and yet the Mayor is questioning it. Whereas the Mayor you know, spent money on a lot of things that we weren't aware of and I care for Mayor Kim but when he says that the County has money Page 13 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 and has done open space before this came along, I beg to differ. When we went to try to do projects down in Ka`ii that were really in need, the County had not one cent to put up for matching funds and so Trust for Public Lands went ahead and raised the money and in the tail end the Mayor did kick in a little bit of money because I think he had promised the people that if they were able to carry this out that he would maybe come up with something since it was going to be County land. So, there wasn't money and that's why we did the two percent. That is why everybody really got behind this and fought hard, because the County didn't have any money for matching funds. Anyway, thank you for your time and please you know, what I heard so far today and what you are going to hear after this is really ah, makes this a no brainer and for all of the people that voted on this to have a board like yours to override, I don't understand the democratic process in that. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Mr. Sensenig. DOUG SENSENIG: Proposal No. CA -7, CA -9, and CA -13, commenting. MR. SENSENIG: My name is Doug Sensenig. I live in Waimea. I have been involved in land conservation for over 30 years as an attorney, Land Trust Board President, and Executive Director of two land trusts, one of which was Hawai`i Island Land Trust. I will be speaking today in reference to CA -7, 9, and 13. I am here today to speak to you about these because they have many of the same failings. I am sorry, CA -7 and 13 have many of the same failings. Unfortunately they both seem to have been written without the assistance of anyone who knows how land conservation works and they ignore the history of why the voters of Hawai`i County decided by substantial margins to place the fund beyond the grasp of the Administration. CA -7 has two fatal flaws that require it to be dropped. First you have already heard that the provision to allow lands acquired with the fund to be sold will drive matching funds away. So far we have had 10.7 million dollars in matching funds as of October 31' which have saved the taxpayers about $2,300 dollars an acre on the property acquired so far. The additional leverage provided by the matching funds means the taxpayers have gotten over a 30 percent bump on their money. Not bad. I don't think the second fatal flaw has been discussed. As you may know conservation easements allow a land owner to sell or donate various development rights on their property in a way that benefits the public. Whether for watershed protection, scenic values, habitat, etc. The conservation easement allows a farmer or rancher to protect their land for the public good while being able to remain on the land, manage it, and maybe pass it on to their heirs if they wish. When conservation organizations work with a landowner to protect land, one of their tools is a charitable tax deduction for any interest that the landowner donates rather than sells. This can work to lower the overall cost of the deal to in our case, the County and other funders. For example, a rancher decides to protect her land with a conservation easement. She needs some cash up front because she is land rich and cash poor, but she also likes the Page 14 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 idea of being able to offset up to a hundred percent of her ranch income with a deduction that can be carried forward up to 15 years. This special treatment of the donation was enacted by congress a few years ago specifically to help farmers and ranchers. So she says "I'll take half of the cost of the easement up front and take the other half as a charitable deduction." Bingo. The County is able to save in this case, 50 percent of the money it otherwise would have had to spend if deduction, if the deduction were not available. CA -7 must be dropped because the Internal Revenue Service requires that all conservation interests that are donated must be in perpetuity if the deduction is to be available. Period. I am sorry the drafter of CA -7 did not know this or I am sure they never would have proposed it. CA -7 will deprive Hawai`i Island ranchers and farmers of tens of millions of dollars in potential funding for protection of their land for the public benefit. It will drive away matching funds and what is the corresponding benefit to the people of this County from this amendment? Nothing. CA -13 is also fatally flawed. Again it shows a lack of understanding of land conservation by allowing money to be diverted from the fund whenever the Administration deems there to be an emergency. This idea superficially sounds sort of reasonable however it really makes the land fund inoperable and here is why. Land protection deals sometimes take years to complete, sometimes decades. How can a project ever be completed if there is no certainty that the money for it will even be in the land fund. How can the County in good faith sign a purchase and sale agreement with a willing landowner if the money might be removed from the land fund at any time? It can't. No landowner and no conservation organization is going to invest the immense amount of time and money, excuse me, it takes to do land protection if the necessary funds to close the deal might be taken away at any time. Mayor Kenoi raided the land fund and the voters went to the polls to prevent it from happening again. Now this Administration is trying to resurrect the very loopholes the people sought to close with previous votes. CA -7 and CA -13 are at best fatally flawed and at worst a cynical attempt to thwart the will of the voters and promote irresponsible development. They must not be allowed to proceed. I will be very brief about a CA -9 in contrast to CA -7 and CA -13, it improves the operation of the land fund and increases its effectiveness. There will be a County employee dedicated to and expert in the operation of the fund. This will be a great help in attracting matching funds and willing partners to take on some of the burden of these projects. So please support CA -9 and support rather than hinder the taxpayers expressed intention that the land fund not be drained away for other uses contrary to their belief and expectation. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Mr. Dean you are next and if I could ask Ms. Hecht to come up. Go ahead Mr. Dean. Page 15 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 CHRISTOPHER DEAN: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MR. DEAN: Thank you very much and thank you for all of your hard work and serving the County. My name is Christopher Dean, Topher Dean and I am here as an individual today and also as a representative of the Environmental Caucus of the Democratic Party of Hawai`i. We have a caucus with thousands of members and so it is something that I am sure we are all united on this. I oppose and the caucus opposes CA -13 and CA -7 and we are in favor of CA -9. There have been some very good testimony to the nuts and bolts issues of why that should be but I would like to speak a little bit to your heart. If you go out and you look from the upper road, mountain road across the plain on the West side, and you will see that there is no forest. It used to be all forest. Well, when they started cutting down that, those trees, the mindset was "look at all of this forest, it is forever. It is limitless." And they cut that all down by hand and it is gone. And that is the mindset that happens with development. "What, I am just making one little resort. I am just building one little house. What does that hurt?" But, they don't see that it is just this perpetuation, that it just keeps going and going and going and you end up... quicker than you can imagine the loss of everything that is beautiful about Hawai`i and I think that when you see a brochure or any kind of a tourist advertisement from a resort or whatever, you will see pictures of pristine beaches with nobody on them, maybe just a young couple walking down the beach. Well if they move that camera just like an inch, you would see like this huge resort and all of these other people and stuff like that. But we are selling this dream. We are selling this fantasy. "Come to Hawaii and see the beauty of paradise." Well, you know what, if some billionaires are like building their gated communities and mansions and resorts all up and down the most beautiful places on this island, there is not going to be that fantasy. We lost Kua Bay, it broke my heart. I can't even think about it. I am so scared of losing Makalawena and as the whole, I live in North Kohala and when I drive up that road, the coastal road from Kawaihae to North Kohala, I see the millionaires building their houses. It is like it just keeps growing and growing, expanding and expanding and the gates go up and it is just like "Where is the nature? Where is the natural beauty of our land?" Thank you very much for listening. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Ms. Hecht you will be next. If I could ask Fred Cachola to please come up. Go ahead. Thank you. DEBBIE HECHT: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. HECHT: Aloha Commissioners. Thank you for your service. It has been my great honor to be the campaign coordinator for the last 13 years for the Save Our Lands Citizen's Committee which has had the two percent land fund program on the ballot now three times. I wrote the legislation in 2006, 2009, and 2012. We request that you help us strengthen this program. This is a wonderful opportunity at the Charter Commission to do so. We have listened to groups all Page 16 Hawaii County Charter Conunission-7 January 25, 2019 around the island and this is a compilation. It really does take an island to accomplish things. Brenda Ford and I wrote the original legislation. You will see how many people have been out to testify for the land fund. They are all in favor. So far I have only heard two people against the land fund and that is Mayor Kim and Council Chair, Aaron Chung. We oppose two Charter amendments. We oppose CA -7 which guts the land fund. It reduces the fund to point seven five or three quarters of a percent, which would be about 1.5 million, which would not be enough money to purchase coastal property or property really anywhere. It removes the maintenance fund from the Charter to the County Code where the Mayor and Council can cut it in the budget each year. Remember, that is why we put it in the Charter, because Mayor Kenoi cut it in 2006 as his first piece of legislation. CA -7 also removes the clause that protects the land in perpetuity. Two percent land should not be sold. This is such a long process to get property acquired. The matching funds, the suggestion, the people lobbying their Council members to do this, the money get... to get the money from the County to pay for it. Remember that this clause says "this property, this property, this property was acquired with money from the Public Access, Open Space and Natural Resources Preservation Fund. It shall be held.." and this is what is important, "it shall be held in perpetuity forever for the use and enjoyment of the people of Hawaii County and may not be sold, mortgaged, traded or transferred in any way." It is purchased with our tax dollars. It should be there for our children and grandchildren in perpetuity. We oppose CA -13 which takes the fund to fund disaster relief This is an end run around the two percent fund. As far as I know and I hope somebody will ask Deanna Sako this question, how many funds would this affect? I believe there is four funds in the County of Hawaii. One is the maintenance fund, Two Percent Land Fund Maintenance Fund, the Two Percent Land Fund, the Disaster and Emergency Relief Fund, and the Budget Stabilization. The Budget Stabilization and the Disaster Relief Fund are regularly taken by the Mayor and Council to balance the budget. So really, this would only affect the two percent funds, the two two percent funds. Now it sounds good after this terrible disaster we have had, but really maybe the best things to do would be to bring forward a Charter amendment that makes sure that disaster relief fund always has five million dollars in it every single year. And if it is depleted it needs to be replenished. I mean especially on an island where we have a natural disaster a year and really that is the reason why CA -13 we so oppose, because every year the money would get taken out of that fund. That just wouldn't work. The matching funds would go away. CA -9 uses two percent land fund money to pay for a full-time staff person that would save the Department of Finance one staff salary and it is so important. The reason the money has built up in the fund is there is nobody doing the work. I Page 17 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 mean Hamana Ventura is assigned to that but when I talk to him he is out getting cattle from Puna during the disaster, he's doing inventories for Public Works, I mean we need one person to really concentrate on the stewardship grants, on the acquisitions, the matching funds, and the administration of this fund. So, these funds have been in effect since 2006. Only 14 properties have been acquired. Another one should be acquired. Waikapuna in March and then that will be, you know that is just one more, so you have heard about dedicated money for land acquisition for other counties and it doesn't apply really. I think two other people have addressed conservation zoning does not protect land at all. I mean just think about all the hotels along the West coast here. They were all in conservation. So the perpetuity clause again you know, so all these people have fought so hard and like bulldogged this process through the County and then all of a sudden somebody can step up and say "Oh sure, let's sell O`oma back to the developer, he will do a better job at caring for it." Or, "let's sell Kahuku or let's you know, sell it to the National Park, or let's do this." And then all of a sudden we lose our matching funds. You slap the poor people that have worked so hard and poured their life, you know, their heart into these acquisitions. That just, I can't even imagine anybody, especially Mayor Kim would suggest that. And then he also said we can't take care of all of this land. We should sell some to the National Parks. We have a maintenance fund. CHR. ADAMS: Ms. Hecht if you could summarize please. MS. HECHT: Twill. Thank you. So please, please help us strengthen the land fund. Listen to all of us that are here. Listen to all the people that went and their mana`o that went into rewriting and the ah, Charter Amendment number nine. Thank you very much. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Next will be Mr. Cachola and if I could ask Ms. Withington to please come up as well. Go ahead sir. FRED CACHOLA: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MR. CACHOLA: Aloha Chairman Adams, members of the Commission, I am Fred Cachola and I am very proud and privileged to speak as a kama'aina, as a Hawaiian from Kohala. Indeed, I would like to introduce another perspective of why I oppose CA -7, oppose CA -13, and support CA -9 from the Hawaiian perspective. These ancient lands were zoned by my ancestors thousands of years ago. They were zoned for specific purposes, for specific reasons. Some of those zonings were very sacred, were very special. Hawaiians call them wahi pana. Some of them gave spiritual strength and inspiration to who they were. These were people living on tiny specks of land, surrounded by thousands of miles of ocean. The whole universe was this tiny specks of land. That is all they knew and they knew very, very well that every bit of that land is what would make them survive and not just survive, that if they did it well, that they would thrive, and they did. They thrived. When Captain Cook came here he was amazed that there Page 18 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 were this thousands of people on this tiny specks of land thriving, healthy, beautiful, why? Because of their identity to that land. It was indeed their inspiration. It was indeed their very livelihood and the harder they worked to take care of that land, the better the land took care of them. And that is why I speak as a kama`aina. Kama is the Hawaiian word for "to nurture, to develop, to support." `Aina is the land. So when we speak of a Kama `Rina it is a person that that land adopted. It is a person that that land nurtured and made who he is or who he was. You are part of that land. You do not see that land as a commodity to be sold. You do not see that `aina as a place for profit. You indeed have a very special relationship to these places. And it has been my privilege growing up in Kohala as a Hawaiian. My father is Filipino, Chinese, I love Chinese. I love Filipino culture, but this is Hawaii. We must keep it that way and I do believe Debbie and others who introduced this wonderful amendments to protect some of these places and our now introducing amendments to make that protection even better, was marvelous. 1 am going to give you an example. Conservation land Kawaihae to Mahukona, all conservation land. Seven years ago a millionaire from South Africa got 13 acres. He spent over half a million dollars, he came to one more meeting with the Land Use Commission to get his permit to build a mansion that he dreamed of when he was a little boy growing up in South Africa. We begged him to not do that. We begged him to move his land. Go mauka, why take Pao`o? This beautiful coastal land that Kohala has used for generations and make it private? Make your own road, develop your own sewer system and keep it all yours and prevent anyone else from being there. Why go into this site where there's six graves, why go into this site where there is a walled enclosure of a Konohiki who is buried there? This millionaire and the half a million dollars he used for specialists or archaeologists, planners, called that gravesite a fishing shrine. You know what that felt to me? And the Kauai family whose Kupuna was buried there with the name (inaudible) sacred site. And along comes the millionaire from South Africa and calls it a fishing shrine and "I am going to put it right next to my waterfall." Whew, he was that close to that permit. One meeting and we filed a contested case. We held a hearing in Kohala. The Kohala people came out strong. We tried to get him to exchange lands. Tried everything for him not... he was determined to take that special place and make it his and it was zoned conservation. But he had the money and the determination to do that and he almost did. We testified long and hard. We raised money to bring our specialist from Honolulu. Our own pockets were drained just bringing in our experts because he had his all paid, and we stopped it. He decided he would not use that sacred site, that burial ground, he would not take that wahi pana and make it his own personal paradise. That is what this is all about. And I do hope you keep that Hawaiian perspective in mind. I do hope you can feel, believe, and behave as kama`ainas. Mahalo. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If I could ask Ms. Fijima to please come up. Sir. Uh, Ms. Withington. Page 19 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 TONI WITHINGTON: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. WITHINGTON: Yes, my naive is Toni Withington. I also submitted written testimony. I hope you all have a copy of this because this is an update of what we have been doing. My name is Toni Withington. I live in North Kohala. I represent the groups Kohala Lihikai, Kamakani 0 Kohala `Ohana, Malama Kohala Kahakai, Maika`i Kamakani 0 Kohala, and one of our groups is Malama Na Wahi Pana 0 Kohala which is Fred Cachola's group. Together we have been nominating lands to the priority list of the County since the inception in 2007. Preservation of our coastal lands started over 50 years ago by our kupuna. We are only the generation that is present now. In the time since 2007 we have raised 20.9 million dollars to purchase 390 acres of coastal land in North Kohala. Of this 20.9 million, about half of it is from the Open Space Fund and half of it is from what we have raised outside of the County. It includes eight projects. Four of the projects have been partially or fully funded by the County fund. Four of the projects were purchased by funding outside of the County costing the County not one single cent. This is what the Open Space Fund was set to do. To bring money in to help preserve our land. We are good at raising matching funds. Fred and I and a couple of people from Kohala, we missed your December meeting because we were over on O`ahu speaking to the Legacy Land Commission helping the County procure 1.45 million dollars for the purchase of Kapanai`a Bay. We are good at raising funds. That is why we oppose CA -13. We oppose CA -7, and we support CA -9. One thing that has been alluded to is the provision in CA -13 about the purchasing in perpetuity. Our lawyers have told us, and you need to go check with your lawyers, that if you put that provision in that eliminates the in perpetuity in it, you will pretty basically cut us off at the knees. We are good at matching funds, but our lawyers tell us that no funding source will support the purchase of land that does not have a provision for in perpetuity. The County won't be able to get matching funds. We won't be able to get matching funds, and all the work that we have put in to prioritizing the very, very important lands of our district, will pretty much evaporate. So that provision is a critical one for us. Another reason not to cut back on the Open Space Fund is this, the County has already made efforts to purchase Open Space Funds and it hasn't happened. In other words, the fund has been allowed to accrue and it is not at the mismanagement of the staff of PONC. It is because the Mayor's office has put the brakes on it. For example, we have on the back of the brochure that I gave you was our efforts to preserve Kula iwi 0 Kamehameha. That is the homeland of Kamehameha. There are seven purchases within this district, the homeland of Kamehameha. We have affected four of them basically. Three have been purchased outright and the one Kapanai`a Bay is now being funded by the Open Space and the Legacy Lands. So four of the seven have been finished. Three Page 20 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 more were part of a County Council Resolution back in 2015 authorizing the County Finance Department to go ahead with negotiations with the owner to purchase them. That is four years ago and the County Finance Department has not approached the owners yet. We need those three parcels to complete four and a half miles of coast line that is directly related to Kamehameha the Great. It is his homeland. It is our homeland for where our Hawaiian nation carne from, so please don't change that fund. Our groups have also been involved in the maintenance fund. We maintain not only two of the parcels that were purchased by the Open Space, but we also maintain three other parcels and we also maintain the coastal land in front of `Upolu airport runway another mile. We already are in the process of stewarding land, with the County, without the County, other places we steward land. And we do think that it needs to be fixed. It is not right the way it is. It needs to be put in the Finance Department and it needs the changes that are part of the communication in front of you. So if you have any questions, I will be available but I thank you for your attention. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much. Now if I could ask Ms. Greenaway to come to the table, Mr. Fijima. LESLIE FIJIMA: Proposal No. CA -7 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MR. FIJIMA: Thank you for your service and there is a fellow Vietnam veteran named Joe Carvalho who is a member of that effort in North Kohala to preserve lands. He is a Keiki 0 Ka `Aina of North Kohala Kapa`au and so you know, what the previous speaker spoke to, he has, I don't see him much, but he has expressed his you know sadness that the loss of access to the ocean because of people moving in who have large amounts of money and who purchase land and cut off access. So I am speaking in opposition to CA -7 and in support of CA -9 because you know I am a refugee from Oahu. I moved up here in 86, lived in Kealia for seven years and now live in Waikaloa and one of the things that made me come to the Big Island was because of access to open land and since I have moved here, the quality of life for myself has actually been degraded I feel. Because of loss of access to different places. You know in Honaunau you can no longer go down to access this place called Don Uchi where the Ulua fisherman used to go because it is gated. You can no longer go to freely access Kealia Beach because access is now cutoff. It is limited. You used to, where the resort is being developed up here in the North, you know the developers cut off the access 20 years ago right and in a recent West Hawaii Today article about that there's several County Council members that support putting in writing the requirement for that public access and the way that public access is now described was by invitation only to certain groups right, that doesn't sound like public access to me. And the public access in all of these North Kona resorts is a joke. Families can't carry their coolers couple hundred yards, take their keiki down to the beach right. Those places are being developed for the exclusive use of people who have lots of money who do not live here. So, preservation of open space for future generations is critical to quality of life. When I look at my granddaughter's baby Page 21 Hawaii County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 who is a year old and I think this kid is never going to enjoy the same quality of life that we did. When we came here we lived hand to mouth right, but I feel that you know the quality of life was better because we had access to open space. So now, like as previous speakers spoke to the issue of the development along Kawaihae Coast right, multi-million dollar homes, cut off public access to the ocean, the Ka`ii Palehu, the Honoka`a, Ho`okena, Kealia, and the North Kohala beaches are all reasons why we have lost access and the DLNR cut off access to Keawaiki. They spent I don't know how many thousands of dollars gating that thing off and then when that didn't work, they put more boulders in front of the access and when that didn't work, they spent more thousands of dollars to block access by putting more boulders there. So all of these places that we could go to are now stripped away from us. So that is why I am speaking out in favor of CA - 9 and opposing CA -7. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much. If I could ask that Maile Melrose please come to the table and I am going to have the, before Ms. Melrose speaks and after Ms. Greenaway speaks, I will have our Hilo speaker speak at that time. Okay, Ms. Greenaway, thank you. UNA GREENAWAY: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. GREENAWAY: Thank you for your service. I know what it is to be a volunteer. I do it all the time. I am on many, many boards. What the people have spoken, Brenda Ford and Debbie Hecht and all the folks that know so much more about this issue than I do, I am going to just go with many of the things they said. I am definitely for CA -9, opposed to CA -7, and I am opposed to CA -13. I am kind of coming from a little bit of a different perspective. I am a 42 year resident of this island. I live in Kealakekua. I am a farmer and I was also an accountant so I have a little bit of business savvy myself: Mauka lands, no one here has access to mauka lands unless you have a relative, an aunty, a parent, someone, or a good friend who owns a ranch. Mauka lands, I mean, I don't begrudge that of anyone. I know a lot of people here are involved in ranching. But we don't have access. All of the other 50 states have State Parks, Federal Parks, forest lands that their citizens have access to. To hike, you know to be one with nature and the wahi pana. We don't have that and I am advocating for a little access to mauka. And another reason and you all know that climate change is extremely real. We kind of like to ignore it. You know, it is a tough one. It is hard to really look and see that it is coming and you all know what that means. It means the ocean is rising. We are actually going to lose some of our Makai beaches I mean that tears my heart apart. I am not happy about it but we need to think a little bit mauka. We need to think about stuff and like the gentleman before me said, we are losing so much access also to the beach. It is just you know, the developers are, they got their eye on all of it and they are not letting go and it is just very, very upsetting. And one other little issue about the open space and like I said, I am not super familiar with all of it but as a citizen who reads the Page 22 Hawaii County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 paper every day, who watches the news every night, I don't actually know where any of these open space parcels are. I know we have purchased them. Do we have access to them yet? Like I don't know and I am a pretty well informed citizen. So there are supposedly public open space lands. Where are they? I really don't know. I mean I know that sounds silly, but I don't know how many people in this room even know where they all are or if you guys even know where they all are. So anyway, those are my... that's my two cents and I just want to give a shout out to two individuals who are no longer with us that fought for open spaces and one is Mrs. Kiyono Kunitake who fought tirelessly to keep the old airport a public park and not let it be developed. She went to the Legislature all the time, brought avocados from her farm. She is an amazing lady. Never stopped until she got it. And Jerry Rothstein. When I go to Kuki `o now and I have access to that beach, I look up at the sky and I say "Thank you Jerry." Mahalo. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If I could ask Marie Morin to please come up to the table here thank you. Hilo speaker, if you could please identify yourself and the agenda items you are speaking to, thank you. NOELIE RODRIGUEZ: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. RODRIGUEZ: My name is Noelie Rodriguez. I teach sociology at the community college here in Hilo and I am speaking in opposition to CA -7, in support of CA -9, and in opposition to CA -13. All in support of keeping the, and embellishing on the two percent Iand fund. The one thing I don't --I'11 be very short, but I want to make the point that many years ago, I don't have exactly how many, but the County Council supported buying the pathway down to Mills Beach at Pinky's and that has been stuck and not happening for so many years but when that finally gets resolved through the courts, I am hoping that the land fund will be able to pay. I think it has been estimated at less than $25,000 to buy that path. So, I am concerned about the continuity of the things that we do get to legislate and in this case the Mills Beach, we had over 6,000 people signing petitions to have access to that beach and the County Council finally did vote for it. But I hope that you will support and keep the two percent land fund. I am speaking on behalf of Global HOPE. HOPE stands for Hawai`i Organization for Peace and the Environment and we were the ones who got all of those signatures and did all of the work to get this to happen. Thank you very much. Aloha. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If I could then turn to Ms. Melrose. MAILE MELROSE: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. MELROSE: Well hello. I am Maile Melrose. I am a lifetime resident of this island. I have voted on this PONC issue before and I have always voted fully, is it too loud? Am I shrieking at you? Fully in support of two percent and I just Page 23 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 feel angry as a resident of this island that this issue would come up again one more time. A waste of taxpayer money and it is just kind of well I guess the feeling that the voters voted, and they voted, and they voted, and still the ability of the Mayor to just ignore it. So I am here to speak for a very specific reason. I am the President of the Friends of Ainy B.H. Greenwell Ethnobotanical Garden and we are on the cusp of receiving financial assistance from the PONC fund. It is going to make all the difference. We are buying the garden. We are buying the garden for the people of this island. It is not going to belong to an off island person anymore. The Bishop Museum got itself in a mess and we are going to buy this and we hope that... it is not a hope, when we receive money from the PONC fund, this issue of perpetuity, the garden has basically raised enough money from the State of Hawai`i, from Legacy Lands, we are the first federally funded community garden in the Pacific region. This is a huge feather in the cap of this island. It is just amazing, $550,000 is going to come to us and in the fine print at the end, the garden is never allowed, never allowed to be sold. It is impossible. We have to change the Articles of Incorporation to state that if we should ever run into financial problems, not that we would dissolve or sell, but that we would merge into another organization, a like-minded organization to preserve forest in perpetuity. So when I see the County stepping out on this, I would have to say brittle, thin ice of somehow reneging on you know, real estate contracts, I would just run away from that a thousand times. So you have heard, I am sure you can tell that I am you know, I am no, no, no, and yes, yes, yes, to get a paid professional person to assist. There are millions of dollars in this fund and there are many suitable pieces of property on this island that can go into this and we should be proud. We should—who cares what the other islands, if they have a little PONC fund or a big PONC fund, come on, we are the Big Island of Hawai`i, we have the most land, we are the hope for the State of Hawaii. This is where the tourists want to be. They want to experience our beauty. They will never experience it if it is all chopped up and we are seeing it in IMAX theaters because there is no reality left. Thank you very much for listening to all of our very peculiar opinions. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Ms. Morin you will be next and if I could have Mr. Warshauer please come up please. MARIE MORIN: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. MORIN: Yeah, uh, my name is Marie Morin. I am a retired wildlife biologist who has worked in Hawai`i for many years. I am speaking as the Secretary of the Friends of Amy Greenwell Ethnobotanical Garden of which Maile is the President and a very hard act to follow. Anyway, 1 do want to point out that our membership at this point, we are only, we are not even three years old as a non-profit and we have 450 members and every one of them strongly supports our acquisition of the garden from the museum. I also wanted to say to Brenda Ford and Debbie Hecht that you are my new heroes for going at this three times and hopefully this won't have to keep happening. I of course am against Page 24 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 CA -7 and CA -13, special funds should never be slush funds for other uses. That is why they are earmarked as special funds. It sounds like they need to fix the emergency fund and the budget overdraft fund is what really the problem is. I agree with that. Also, I am for CA -9. I am actually going to be bold enough to suggest putting one more staff isn't enough, you probably need two more staff being funded out of the fund in order to make that two percent fund actually be where we can really use it correctly in a timely manner to get property that at this point in time is the most affordable it will ever be. We all want open space. I moved here from O`ahu because I didn't want to live on Oahu because it didn't have enough open space and I don't want the Big Island to look like O`ahu. Anyway, so again, I am against CA -7 and CA -13. I am very much against removing the perpetuity clause. I think that is a foolish act and it will make it so we can't get some of the outside grants that we have gotten. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you so much. If I could have Ann Bosted please come up. Mr. Warshauer you have, I understand you are probably looking at seven, nine, and maybe 13, six minutes please. RICK WARSHAUER: Proposal No. CA -7 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MR. WARSHAUER: I have come here representing two different entities. CHR. ADAMS: Right. Six minutes, Sir. MR. WARSHAUER: One is for myself and one is for representing... CHR. ADAMS: And as you have heard, several folks are representing themselves and other organizations as well. Six minutes. Thank you. MR. WARSHAUER: Aloha Commissioners. Thank you for your consideration regarding the Charter. The proposed Charter amendments seven and nine were addressed by a letter from the PONC Commission and I will read that. It is on behalf of Kekaulike Tomich who couldn't be here today. "After discussion at our January 14th, 2014 PONC meeting, the PONC Commission has the following comments we would like to share with the Charter Commission regarding two of its proposed Charter amendments. CA -9, we encourage the Charter Commission to move forward with CA -9 which transfers administration of the maintenance fund from the Department of Parks and Recreation to the Department of Finance. Our own experiences is that the roles being split between the two departments has led to confusion, delays, and lack of efficiency in transferring funds from the management fund to the qualifying management partners. Page 25 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 CA -7, the PONC Commission urges the Charter Commission not to reduce the amount of additions to the preservation fund below its current two percent portion of the collection of real property tax revenues. The much larger scale of Hawai`i island properties require a proportionally large amount of funds for purchases. CA -7, the in perpetuity portion of the Charter requirements for the purchase properties enhances the ability of the preservation fund to leverage monies for matches from additional funding entities and we would like to keep the current Charter wording regarding in perpetuity. Thank you for your consideration. My personal testimony, I would really like to see the Charter Commission forwarding to the ballot some more measures that I can support. Measures that would benefit the County's people and `aina. CA -9 is one such constructive measure that would greatly enhance the PONC maintenance fund. It centralizes the operations and administration of the PONC program within the Finance Department which will help refine the evolving program that actually responds to public requests to preserve meaningful lands. However, it would be pointless if the other two PONC measures before you succeed in altering the Charter. As 1 testified in December, on December 14th, CA -7 would gut the PONC program and relegate the program's funding to the momentary whims of the Administration and Council. We don't want the PONC fund trumped. CA -13 is equally appalling and will most likely result in similar defending. You should not move either measure forward. I notice in the County's County Code website that the PONC fund portions, Article 42 are flanked by two other funds. One the Disaster and Emergency Fund, Article 41, to accumulate sufficient supplemental financial resources to respond to public health and safety emergencies. And two, the Budget Stabilization Fund, Article 43 to be used as a temporary supplementary source of funds for times of financial hardships. These special funds already exist for the purposes purported in CA -13. Successive Administrations lack of fiscal discipline to correctly utilize these funds, that is not to raid thein regularly, should not be an excuse to embed another raiding mechanism into the Charter. Do not pass forward this pointless proposal. Kill it now. Contrast the negative nature of these proposals, CA -7 and CA -13, to the words of Governor Ige in his State of the State message last Tuesday "These places are worth saving for us and for future generations. That is why we are requesting increased funding for land conservation by removing the 6.8 million dollar cap on the ten percent conveyance tax to the Legacy Land Conservation Program." In this age of wholesale off -shore purchase of our `aina and wahi pana, Governor Ige recognizes the importance of preserving these special lands, advocated for and nominated by the people in the State's equivalent of the PONC program. Why can't you? These two land conservation programs and those of Maui, Honolulu, and Kaua`i Counties are very popular and vital. They are popular because they are the people's small part of government where residents can have a big say in saving from development some of the wahi pana that they cherish. Residents nominate lands and advocate for them at meetings of their Page 26 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 commissions. Do not confuse these land conservation processes with those that acquire lands for other public purposes like needed infrastructure or even parks which are easily taken from State lands. These lands are from the people's wishes for the people's future. Don't thwart them with destructive proposals. Please follow your hearts, not bad suggestions. As stated in the Charter, the highest and best use of the PONC fund is to leverage funds from other sources. Similarly the Disaster and Emergency Fund needs to be kept full so it can be used as a match for outside funds in addition to direct response. Thus you should prohibit the use of the fund outside of its purpose within the Charter. This needs doing. Do it within the Charter, please. CHR. ADAMS: Sir, please summarize. MR. WARSHAUER: Yeah. I wonder if the Administration's modest request for eruption funds might have been limited by the lack of funds within that emergency fund. When I was young in the early 60's, I used to be able to walk sections of the coast between Spencer Park and `Anaeho`omalu freely and frequently fishing along the coastline. Then by the mid 60's, I got cashed off the first parcel bought by somebody from the mainland and that has continued to be an increasing phenomenon not just in that stretch of coastline, but all over the coastlines of the island and this is really bad. When that happens, we lose a lot. We lose a lot of our sense of space and our sense of right, and our sense of freedom and we need everything we can do to keep these open. To acquire the wahi pana, these very special sites, and to collectively accumulate enough public land in large open spaces so we too can watch our descendants walk along the coastline and feel like I did when I was a child. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If I could please have Wendy Scott -Vance come to the table and James Weatherford, oh, when? Okay, great. Go ahead ma'am. ANN BOSTED: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. BOSTED: Chairman Adams, honorable members of the Charter Commission, my name is Ann Bosted. I oppose CA -7, CA -13, and I support CA - 9. I oppose CA -7 which reduces the two percent fund to inadequate point seven percent of the property taxes. I am opposed to this as that would not give the County enough resources to purchase land which should be publicly owned. I understand that there are about a hundred and sixty sites on PONC's wish list which should be purchased when the opportunity is right. Opportunity is the key. If a golden opportunity presents itself and the County has insufficient funds to take advantage of that opportunity, then that opportunity is lost. In order to save lands for the enjoyment for future generations, we must seize each and every opportunity we can to buy and preserve key parcels of land. If we rniss the opportunity and the land is bought and developed in a way that the public cannot Page 27 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 benefit, then future generations will have been deprived of a precious land to enjoy. I also oppose CA -7 because it removes the maintenance fund from the Charter into the County Code where it can be modified by the Mayor and the Council. This fund should be held constant to facilitate planning for future generations. In addition, I oppose CA -7 because it removes the clause that protects lands in perpetuity. Meaning lands bought by PONC could be sold. This will compromise the County's ability to obtain matching funds from State and Federal agencies. For example, back in November of2016, PONC was able to close on a parcel of land with a purchase price of 2.6 million dollars by spending only $764,745, call it three-quarters of a million. Two point six million versus less than a million. How did they do it? By securing matching funds. The Department of Fish and Wildlife kicked in One Million, Two -Hundred and Fourteen Thousand Dollars and the State's Legacy Land Grant Program donated $621,245. What did PONC do? Only six years of planning, negotiating, report writing, inspections, presentations, and drawing up agreements. A lot of work, but worth every penny to save a mile of ocean front including critical Hawksbill turtle breeding beaches and to save 3,128 acres of unique cultural sites and important geological features from private development. PONC is hugely successful, but it cannot operate in a vacuum. It needs State and Federal partners. If we are to make changes, let's strengthen the program to attract more partners to help us. Allowing land purchased by PONC to be sold, will be turning away the help we really need. I support CA -9 and support all proposals to strengthen the two percent land fund program. I support the idea of having a full-time staff person working only on acquiring lands for PONC. His or her job would entail acquiring property, obtaining matching funds, helping the public with suggestion forms, and stewardship applications at the administration of the maintenance fund. I am acquainted with the work of Ms. Alexandra Kelepolo who for ten years was PONC's property management technician until she resigned in January of 2017. During her tenure, PONC became one of the most successful open space programs in the State of Hawai`i. When she resigned, the County had preserved over 4,400 acres of land for open space preservation. She was dedicated and self- motivated elfmotivated and future generations will thank her. I know Hamana Ventura is dedicated, but I understand his skills were employed in relocating cattle during the eruption and is now tasked with doing an inventory for Public Works. I am sure there are others that could be recruited to step in Alexandra's shoes and work full-time for PONC. I would encourage the holder of this position to work closely with non-profit organizations dedicated to conserving land, such as Trust for Public Land or the Nature Conservancy. To share skills and knowledge to efficiently and successfully close land deals that would benefit future generations. In this way, the holder of this position can hit the ground ruining. I gratefully thank you for the opportunity to testify. I hope my words have not fallen on deaf ears. Mahalo. Page 28 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. At this point, I note that we still have eight statements left. I would just like to get a sense of the Commission. Would you like to take a 10 minute recess, or would you like to plow through? Okay, if there is a need for someone to leave the dais, I understand that right? And I would hope that the public would as well. Okay, if I could ask Mr. Weatherford please to come up and then, please ma'am. WENDY SCOTT-VANCE: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. SCOTT-VANCE: Hello County Charter Commissioners. My name is Wendy Scott -Vance. I am a resident of these islands. CHR. ADAMS: I believe you have to speak... MS. SCOTT-VANCE: You can't hear me? How about now? Okay. I am a resident of these islands for 43 years and I am the President of Ho`omalu Ka`u a 501 (c)(3) organization in Ka`u dedicated to the perpetuation, protection, and conservation of the land, culture, knowledge, and history of Ka`i and its people. We are committed to protecting the archaeological, cultural, and historical treasures of the Ka`u district as well as the pristine, undeveloped environmental ecosystems in Ka`u's 922 square miles. PONC's mandate totally aligns with our mission. Full disclosure, Ho`omalu Ka`u has applied for and been granted stewardship of a recent PONC purchase. The Kahua Ola Hou, the ancient Makahiki grounds in Na`alehu. I worked with Debbie Hecht in 2006 as the Ka`u coordinator for the two percent fund. We were tasked with collecting twice as many signatures as we actually needed to get the initiative on the ballot because half the signatures were going to be thrown out. They were not going to be in exact match and that was required for the initiative to be put on the ballot. My favorite example of the exact match was Councilman Pete Hoffinan who signed our petition as Pete Hoffman, when his voter registration said Peter Hoffman and he was not counted as a legitimate signer of the petition. Long story short, it was put on the ballot, it was passed not once, but three times with 63 percent of the vote. I don't need to reiterate everything everybody has said about C9, C7, and C13. I agree with all of those things. What I would like to say is that I am not sure why the Mayor feels that it is okay to pillage funds from this electoral mandate from the people. As Senator Ruderman said, our franchise is the most important thing we have and it has been tested let us say, in these past several years. That this has passed, been taken to the people and passed three times, 1 do not understand how that can just be abrogated by a single person, even if you include the County Council, I do not understand how that work can just be put aside and all those people's wishes can just be totally ignored. My understanding of the way democracy works in the Country, in the State, in the County, is that it is for the people, by the people, and of the people and 1 don't see how this applies at all. I am not a conspiracy theorist, however, I really question why these funds Page 29 Hawaii County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 have been allowed to get so large when there are so many already approved properties on the list for acquisition. I mean it is almost as if they were created to be ripe for the picking when somebody needed to balance a budget. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. I would like to ask this Commission to please keep these funds in place at two percent, please hire somebody to administer these funds, and do not take these funds and put them in the emergency fund. That is not the place for it as it has been stated, there is a fund for that, it just needs to be funded. Thank you for listening. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If 1 could ask Elizabeth Weatherford please to come forward. Mr. Weatherford. JAMES WEATHERFORD: Communication No. 15, commenting. MR. WEATHERFORD: Yes, thank you. Good morning. My name is James Weatherford. I reside in Pahoa on the other side of the island. Had a beautiful 80 mile drive over here this morning. I want to talk to you today, to change the topic during my testimony a little. I want to address Communication No. 15 on your agenda which as I understand you will be, you are open to discuss any of the Articles in the Charter, recently I submitted through the Charter's website, a proposal to amend the Hawaii County Charter, Section 13-27. That is the part of the Charter that deals with how we conduct our elections. Specifically the amendment that we have proposed would apply to the election of the Mayor, the Prosecuting Attorney, and all of the Council members and this is something called ranked choice voting. Much of the information that I have provided and that I would encourage you to pursue if you would like to know more, can be found at that website of an organization called Fair Vote.org, fairvote.org. What we submitted, there are a couple of options, you can have a general statement or something more explicit and that can be talked about further. With rank choice voting, what voters do is they rank as many candidates as they want in order of choice. Candidates do best when they attract a core of first choice support, but also reach out to other what they think may be supporters of other candidates to say "well, if you can't put me first, at least put me second" and in the counting of votes, very briefly, if the person who has 30 percent or a small number of first rank votes doesn't make it, the people that voted for him first, they have put another candidate second, what they have to say, still counts. So it allows you to rank your candidate and realistically you can also put candidates first, and you can also put a particular candidate last. And mathematically that puts that person at a very bad position. So rank choice voting has been implemented in several local jurisdictions around this Country and more recently the State of Maine has implemented rank choice voting. Some of the highlights of some effects they have seen when rank choice voting has been used is that it mitigates what we call the spoiler effect, one candidate that is only pulling votes away from another because everybody still counts. We have seen compared to primary elections, where rank choice voting was used, we have seen increased voter turnout. People Page 30 Hawaii County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 become more interested. They don't feel like "well, my guy is not going to win, so I am not going to go." So, it really helps with voter turnout. One of the things I have found in doing some reading on this and it made sense once 1 saw, was that they found that the conduct of campaigns have been improved and there is a lot less candidate criticism and negative campaigning if John Smith and Mr. and someone else are running, well, Jones and Smith may not attack each other because they want to get the second preference of the other candidates vote, so much more sticking to the issues rather than just personal attacks which I think is a very helpful thing for our democracy. And again, there have been no real changes and errors at the polls. There aren't a lot of blank votes, there aren't spoiled ballots, so it has worked where it has been used. CHR. ADAMS: Sir, please summarize. MR. WEATHERFORD: I will. First of all I would say it has to reduce the cost okay, because there are fewer elections. You no longer have the special or primary election, and 1 would consider this a very good follow-up from when we introduce non-partisan elections, and finally, as a dual citizen of the U.S. and Australia, I have lived in a Country and done voting as a citizen where this works and it is very good to see how people go about trying to get first and second preferences. It is a way to nudge our democracy, give people a better say, and keep improving the way we work. Thank you very much for your service. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If I could ask Rose Schilt please to come to the table. Thank you. Elizabeth Weatherford. ELIZABETH WEATHERFORD: Communication No. 15, commenting. MS. WEATHERFORD: Good afternoon. My name is Elizabeth Weatherford and I drove again also from Puna district this morning to come and talk with you. Thank you very much for serving on the Charter Commission everyone. I thank you for your time and your dedication and I do hope that you will look into what I am about to tell you about. This is what James brought up. Communication No. 15, it introduces language to implement rank choice voting on Hawai`i Island for the offices of Mayor, Prosecuting Attorney, and County Council, so that would be 11 offices at this point. Now, I just heard for the second time today, the statement that our franchise is the most important thing we have. Rank choice voting is a fulfillment of franchise. It is a complete way of voting. You have possibly heard of this in other contexts previous to this as instant runoff voting or preferential voting. James and I are familiar with preferential voting. We became familiar with this way of voting because we are dual citizens with Australia and so we have lived and voted in a system that uses this and I will have to say it is not difficult to understand at all. That is one objection that people come up with immediately that "oh, look at all Page 31 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 these choices, it is going to be too difficult. Voters aren't going to understand." Well, it's no harder than choosing a pair of shoes, you know, if you got six choices right? You know what you most want, you know what you least want, so a little bit of an explanation about rank choice voting. This is what it is called now and the name under which it has been adopted. In a lot of jurisdictions in California, some in Minnesota, and Maine just adopted it wholesale for the state. So, rank choice voting wherever there are more than two candidates, so let's say four candidates, the ballot will show you all four choices and you rank them. If there are six candidates, the ballot will show you all six candidates and you rank them. Some of the benefits of it are that the spoiler effect is mitigated entirely. We have seen elections, we are all familiar with elections recently that have involved three candidates, two of one party and one of the other party, and the candidate that represented less than 40 percent of the electorate actually won the election because the party vote was split between the two where it was the same, so, okay, so, excuse me... so, the other experience that I have had besides living in Australia and voting with preferential voting is that I have worked as a precinct poll worker since 2004 and I have been in all of the positions that a precinct poll worker can have. I haven't been in counting or central control or anything like that, but all of the poll worker, precinct worker positions I have worked in. In my point of view, an amendment to our system of voting would have to pass the test of being easy for the voter to use. Now, fairvote.org, they have followed the implementation of rank choice voting in over a dozen jurisdictions for well over a decade and they have generated data and it shows that voters easily understand. Can understand rank choice voting and that voter error does not increase. Voter error does not increase, so it is not a complicated thing, and it is something that gives the voters more choice, gives every—gives all of us more choice. Wouldn't we all like to say "well, this is my—if I can't have this candidate, I want this one or this one, or this one." So, given that it has so many benefits, and it is something we can learn about, I ask you heartily to consider, give it serious consideration, and thank you again for your service. Aloha. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If I could ask Shannon Rudolph please to come to the table. Go ahead ma'am, thank you. ROSE SCHILT: Proposal No. CA -7 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. SCHILT: Chairman Adams and members of the Charter Commission, my name is Rose Schilt, I have lived here almost 40 years, my background is that I am a retired archaeologist from Bishop Museum. I have been also, went on into Public Health and I am a retired public health worker and director of a non-profit for maternal and child and family health in Hawai`i. Most of my archaeological work was on this island and I have a deep love of the island. I represent also the Friends of Amy Greenwell, Amy B. H. Greenwell Ethnobotanical Garden in Page 32 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 Captain Cook. I am board member. I apologize that in my written testimony I failed to put "Friends of in front of the garden name. We formed the friends as our President explained, three years ago. I am in opposition to CA -7 and CA -13 and I am for CA -9. I won't read my testimony verbatim. You have heard so much expert testimony today, so much information. Overall I want to say that I feel there are many treasured places and lands yet to be protected on this island. Not only archaeological sites, but especially ecosystems and lands that people value and treasure for open space. P.O.N.C., or PONC as we call it, is an enlightened fund and the compromise of CA -7 would reduce it and at a high cost. A high future cost I think to the people and the future and I just wanted to focus on a couple of financial costs that I see future wise. First of all, it has already been mentioned many times already today, but it is fundamentally the participation of the community in the future of the island. And this fund is just a bubbling up of hundreds of people who love the land and it is a fair and vetted process. Everything is not going to get saved. We know that, but it allows people to come forward and really participate and that is so strong for the island, especially in the face of the challenges of tourism that is challenging to our local cultures. Also for long term tax base, I don't have figures but it seems to me that revenue gains in these vital areas will exceed taxes that might otherwise be generated on lands and near lands that are saved because when you save important lands all lands nearby become more valuable and we make an island with a future that has more valuable both to tourism and to local people, so I think there are fundamental values there that... you could, I don't have figures, but I think you could put figures there. The figure we do have is the matching one that other people have said, the 10.7 million dollar matching which we are raising matching with our garden effort. We are now over a million in matching that we are bringing to the table and other groups bringing that would double or triple the 10 million over ten years in the future should you save PONC, I think you can see that, and staff it... the potential for the development would raise more, would bring more money to the islands and we are bringing three sources for ours. We have Federal at over half a million, we have State, over $700,000 and we have private, over $100,000 coming to the table. So, and others would do similarly, there is a lot of talented people on this island who care, so those I think are the main things on the reason not to compromise and cut PONC down. Those same things of course apply to why should we keep PONC as it is and even better, have at least one person that could help shepherd and help the community go through the process of applying and creating these opportunities. I think PONC supports statewide planning goals, but for this island, I think these protected lands are fundamental to so many things, economic, cultural, agricultural, educational, recreational, youth development and tourism vitality for the island. It is just a wealth of you know, opportunity. Overall, I just implore you to support a future that is a real vision for the island where we take a positive vision, and with the CA -13, you know, I feel like that is just going to undercut the future. We need to Page 33 Hawaii County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 balance the budget. All of us try to balance our budgets, it's hard but states, many states are in trouble, but for the County if we could create a safety net with our emergency funds that are secure, then that will allow in an emergency to access other sources where we have already made a safety fund that is not, it can't be taken away for other things, and yet we support our land and our stewardship. Thank you so much for this opportunity. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much. If I could ask Mandy Johnson -Campbell please to come to the table. Ms. Rudolph, please. SHANNON RUDOLPH: Proposal No. CA -7, CA -8, and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. RUDOLPH: Aloha, I am a 35 year Hawai`i resident and I think the idea of rank choice voting amendment would be awesome and you guys would be a huge hit with the public if you did that because that's the fair thing to do and it saves money. So I want to thank you all for driving over from Hilo and that just made me think of another thing, another amendment. In most places in the country they have, and not to take this personally folks, but a lot of other places in the country, they have elected Charter members. It seems to me that if our Mayor has been from Hilo year after year, after year, and the majority of the Charter members every ten years are also from that side of the island, it seems to me that it would be a great idea to have elected Charter members like a lot of other places in the country. That is how it was in my hometown 35 years ago. So, on some of these, couple of these amendments, I agree. I am angry too. I have spent many, many, many, many hours coming in to tell you, and we voted three times, that we do not want this fund reduced. It makes me angry that I have to come and tell you for the fourth time. Not you, but this takes a lot of time and I am not happy about it. Whoever keeps doing this over and over and trying to thwart our vote, please stop. Retire already. Okay, number seven, no. CA -7, no reduction to the land fund, no deletion of the perpetuity clause like you already heard today, if you take away the perpetuity clause you lose all your grant funding, you'd lose all your matching funds, that's ridiculous. Who even thought of that? What the hell? Number 8, that is a big no. Four-year terms, we already voted on this. We had four-year terms then we voted on two-year terms, and here I am again telling you again. Please, we voted on this, the people told you what they wanted, they want two-year terms. They want more control of their Council members and they want to be able to throw them out when they are screwing up. Number 9, yes, yes, yes. We need a staff position in Finance who is dedicated to the open space funding to find us more money, to find us matching grants, that has the time, that doesn't have to go out and chase cattle, that they can find matching funds, that they can find grants because no matter what, this island is going to grow and we are going to need the recreational areas for all of these Page 34 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 additional people that are going to come here. We need these places now. We need to save them now because later is going to be too late and that ties in with the emergency funds. We are always going to have emergencies here but we are not always going to have this land. And as far as raiding the fund, you pay it back in five years okay, and then the County gets to keep the interest that that money would have been accruing in the open space fund. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much. If 1 could ask Megan Lamson Leatherman please to come to the table. Please go ahead ma'am. MANDY JOHNSON - CAMPBELL: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. JOHNSON -CAMPBELL: Aloha, thank you all for being here. My naive is Mandy Johnson -Campbell. I am here representing myself, and my family, my children, and my future grandchildren. We would like to please implore you no on CA -7 and CA -13, and yes on CA -9. I was sitting back here listening to everyone's comments and I was looking up at our seal for the County of Hawai`i behind you, it is right behind you if you want to take a look. There is... and, 1 don't see any hotels there, I don't see any mansions, I don't... it looks you know, and then at the bottom it says Ola Na Moku, the health of the islands, or the health of the districts and the health of all of those things is contingent on open space, healthy reefs, healthy people, so this is very important and it is part of all of our jobs to make sure that these places are preserved, and the places that are being proposed to be purchased with this money are places that people are deeply passionate about. I am sure you all know that and I hope that all of you have been able to go and walk these lands that have been preserved using these monies. It is amazing. The trails, being able to walk in the footsteps of ancestors that first landed here. It is amazing and it is so important. So definitely no to reducing the fund. No to moving it to the Code so it can be cut in the budget, and I am really floored that the proposal is out there to remove the clause that protects the land in perpetuity. No selling conservation land. I would also like to take issue with Mayor Kim's suggestion to just sell places off to National Parks and I can tell you as a National Parks service employee that has been furloughed for four weeks, that is not a silver bullet and it is not always the best choice, and it doesn't mean necessarily the best for our lands here. These are... I can think of a couple of different places that would really benefit from these funds that are close to my family's heart, one right in Holualoa, that is a community gathering place and very important to the people of my community and then there is another one further up North on the coast that has been home to several families for hundreds of years. Not like 100 years, like 800 years. Their names are there with the petroglyphs. The... some of the oldest on our coastline and to lose that, to have it just privatized and so people cannot go back to these places that have been their places for many generations, is not acceptable. We Page 35 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 need to save these places. And, the gentleman earlier mentioned having these places for future generations and I would just like to really hammer that home, that it is not about us in this room. We are going to be gone like that, but if these places can be saved for a 100 years, that is going to mean something. It is not going to matter in 100 years whether some money was taken from this fund to balance the budget. No one is going to care in 100 years. And, additionally, you know, there are other reasons to purchase open space. We have climate change pressures, we have safety pressures for our people, we need trails to be preserved for connectivity of our communities. And, as you can see from our community members that have spoken earlier, these opportunities through this fund really provide amazing opportunities for partnerships between all kinds of community and government groups, `ohana descendants of the area, and it is a beautiful thing when those all come together and they can preserve these places. And then just on a financial level, if you take the monies out of this fund, you are not just taking the monies out of this fund, you are deleting the opportunity for matching funds for a lot of these purchases, so you are looking really, you are losing... you are taking away double or more of the money. It doesn't make financial sense to me. And then just back on the open space... CHR. ADAMS: Please summarize ma'am. MS. JOHNSON -CAMPBELL: Okay. As a mother of young kids, there is no substitute for open space for young children. You can't teach stewardship of land or why it is important to care for the environment virtually. If they are not out there, they are not learning it. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If I could ask Sharon Willeford please to come to the table. Go ahead ma'am. MEGAN LAMSON LEATHERMAN: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. LAMSON LEATHERMAN: Okay. Aloha, I am Megan Lamson Leatherman. Thank you, each of you for your time and attention. I know it has been a long afternoon already. I am here wearing multiple hats today. 1 am a marine biologist by training, but 1 also provided testimony, written testimony December 14th meeting. I wasn't able to be there, so there will be more details there. Hopefully I can keep this moderately short and sweet. On a personal level, as an individual, this, the two percent land funds are near and dear to my heart. I remember 12, 13 years ago waving signs on the side of the road in Kai to support this. I have voted on this initiative all three times that it has been up and as a conservation biologist I know just how much more efficient it is with our time, and our money, and our resources to protect things now before they are degraded, rather than try to restore them down the line. Page 36 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 So, another hat as a board member of a local non-profit conservation organization, I am very aware about how important it is to govern and pay attention to your budget and to balance the budget. However, it is also very clear that there are two types of funds. Things that can go into general funds and funds that are dedicated and should be specifically earmarked for something and the PONC funds are, they are earmarked for public access, open space, natural resources preservation, and maintenance and so I feel like it is super inappropriate to consider using them for anything else and trying to use them to balance the budget. The third hat I am wearing today is a non-profit staff member with Hawai`i Wildlife Fund. One of the non-profit organizations who did receive a maintenance grant to host community based workdays and estuary restoration work and efforts at Kawa, and we support maintaining the fund at the full two percent and we also support using some of that money to employ a full-time dedicated staff person and to transfer the management and organization and maintenance of both funds to the Department of Finance within the County. But it is also worth mentioning that this small pot of funds that we received in addition to that, about a third of the direct funds, not counting all of the thousand plus volunteer hours, but the direct funds, we paid about a third of the direct cost for our staff and part-time contractors to host these workdays and to go through the permitting process. So the amendments within the Charter amendment 9 would make this process much more efficient, so wholeheartedly support CA -9 and like many others before me, I am echoing them in opposition, strong, strong, opposition to Charter Amendment 7 and as well as 13. I think it is a misappropriation of those funds, so thank you so much for your time. Happy to answer more questions. I hope you read my testimony. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much. Ms. Willeford. SHARON WILLEFORD: Proposal No. CA -7, CA -8, and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 in support. MS. WILLEFORD: Aloha, thank you for making it through the day and being here for us all. I think everything has been said that is important. 1 also agree on CA -7, CA -8, and CA -13 as Noes and 9 as yes. I am a 35 year elementary school teacher here. I am here to represent the children, the future. If we continue to allow foreign investors to come in and buy and desecrate our land, I am a (inaudible) protector of the land. On such things that we see going on on Mauna Kea, Pu'uhonua, polluting our water along the coast, dumping 70,000 gallons of sludge into our ocean and disturbing our fisherman and causing our surfers to get sick. Now PGV (Puna Geothermal Venture) now trying to reopen. That has damaged and harmed so many of our people and our land and now a rocket launch. Who is making these decisions? If we pollute and damage and desecrate all our lands, what will our children have left? What year is it? There is so much alternative free energy right now. We can tap the ocean, the wind, the solar, and Page 37 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 RECESS: RECONVENE: hemp growing now and so many things that the young people are already doing on their own farms and lands. We don't need to damage anything anymore. So I ask you to please keep those things in mind and keep an eye on what is going on because somebody is selling out big time. 1 don't know who and it hurts. It breaks my heart. Thank you all again. Thank you for making right decisions for the best for everyone. Much aloha. CHR. ADAMS: Thanks very much. Are there any other statements from Hilo? Any other statements from Kona? Hearing none, we will take a recess for 10 minutes. At 4:01 p.m., the Chair called for a recess. The meeting reconvened at 4:05 pan. CHR. ADAMS: Approve the minutes of December 14, 2018. It has been moved by Commissioner Hamann and seconded by Commissioner Zelko. Just a reminder that these minutes encompassed being a recessed meeting, so we reconvened on January 1 lth as well, so these minutes encompass all of that. Is there any discussion? Seeing none, all in favor of approving the minutes, let me rephrase that, all in favor of the motion, please signify by saying "aye", any opposed? Motion passes 11-0. Let's move on to Communications. APPROVAL OF The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business, MINUTES: Approval of Minutes. Vote on Motion Commissioner Hamano moved to approve the minutes of To Approve Minutes: December 14, 2018. Seconded by Commissioner Zelko- (Approved) Schlueter and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano, Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 11 Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. CHR. ADAMS: We have Communication No. 1-11. These are all available of course in your green binder. Is there any discussion on 1-11? Seeing none, let's Page 38 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 move on to Communication No. 12 dot 2, does anyone have any comments? Yes, Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: On that schedule, I see that they're evening meetings, evening hearings. CHR. ADAMS: Correct. MS. RICE: On ah, across the other side of the island. CHR. ADAMS: Right. MS. RICE: I am wondering are, should we be expected to go to every one of the hearings or could we get a ride or something? CHR. ADAMS: The logistics of that we can work out the logistics. Plus, the idea of staying overnight at somewhere would be also included. MS. RICE: Oh, okay, okay. I was just a little worried about coming home at 11 o'clock from Kali. CHR. ADAMS: Right. We will make sure whatever it takes, if I am driving everybody home to their homes, we will make sure everybody can get home if they need to okay? MS. RICE: Okay, great. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. MS. RICE: Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Is there any other items, any other discussion on 12.2? Alright, so let me just say that this then will be the plan moving forward. These are the dates. I think you can plan on these being the dates and these are the locations we've not received any notes from any Commissioners about different locations, although we have received communications from various members of the public about using some of their facilities, but I have taken it that the Commissioners if they were interested in those areas, they would have let us know. So we will move forward with these, this information and make them subject to any logistical problems down the road. Again, we made these dates based on the Commissioners' desires. Okay, thanks. Communication No. 15, Commissioner Hopkins. No problem. Usually the light comes on...there you go. Page 39 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 MR. HOPKINS: There, I got it that time. Thank you. I would like to just have a little bit of a discussion on Item, Section 13-28, Salary Commission. I am sure most of the other members of the Commission, of the, of our Commission here, noted the article in the newspaper discussing that the Salary Commission almost voted to that, to approve to dissolve itself because they... and it was a very, very close vote, that they thought that it was not necessary to have it anymore. I am wondering whether if we had known about that vote and that the discussion that the Salary Commission was having, whether the vote on the proposed Charter Amendment that we took and defeated at the last meeting, would have been different? And, I am just bringing that up because I am considering bringing up a different amendment regarding the Salary Commission at the next... but again, I wish I had known about that, that the debate that was going on within the Salary Commission itself about whether it was necessary to have it and whether they thought that the responsibilities for making decisions about salary belonged with both the Council and the Mayor. Okay, thank you. That's my only comment. CHR. ADAMS: Any other comments? Thank you. Let's move on to Communication No. 30, is there any discussion? Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: Was there sorne discussion about this at the meeting that I missed in December? CHR. ADAMS: This particular communication? This was, no, this was something that actually I brought up and so I was going to talk to it. MS. RICE: Oh, okay. Sorry. Right. CHR. ADAMS: I am actually going to do that but I usually let the other Commissioners speak if there is something that they would like to say first. So, as you can see, we are already at 4:15 p.m., almost 4:20 p.m. and have yet to really get to the meat of our business. I should rephrase that for the minutes. Of course hearing statements from the public is meat as well, but when we talk about decision making, we haven't gotten to any of that. So, the idea of how frequently we meet, whether we need to change the time that we meet, all those kinds of things are something that is at the top of my mind typically and since it is at the top of any mind I make sure that our Legal Analyst and our Clerk also keep it at the top of their mind. I am aware that we have been running a... we had a meeting two weeks ago, we have a meeting today, we are going to have a meeting in two weeks that is a regularly scheduled meeting, we will likely not get through this meeting, so there is the chance that we will have a recessed meeting and all of those things come into play when we are thinking about actually getting our work done in time for both the public hearings and then ultimately for sending this stuff to the Council. So, I would ask if anyone has any particular thoughts about, so let me just ask the question. And we have talked about some of these things in the past, but now we Page 40 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 are a few months into it. If we make our meeting, we've... the second Friday of the month seems to be reasonable amount of time, what about making the meeting time earlier in the day? Okay, so we will take that into account. The idea of meeting that may help alleviate some of issues with the frequency of our meetings but it still may be that we will have to meet more often than simply once a month based on our ability to get things done. Are we okay with you know, deciding on the recess meeting date at the end of wherever we are in a particular meeting? Are we okay with that as opposed to trying to design it? (yes, yes) Okay. Got it. And right now the locations are here and Hilo. We are still good with that? Okay. Alrighty, I appreciate that. Is there any comments from our... one second if I may, Commissioner Rice. Any comments? No. Any comments? Okay, Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: Just on the time, by increasing the corning in, if it is not too early in the morning because I have to come to Hilo and you guys have to come over here. CHR. ADAMS: We will take that into account. MS. RICE: Like 10:00 o'clock or something. CHR. ADAMS: Right. MS. RICE: Yeah. Okay. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, thank you. Alright, let's move on then to Unfinished Business. Is there any discussion? UNFINISHED The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of BUSINESS: business, Unfinished Business. CHR. ADAMS: Is there any discussion on the Communication No. 3 dealing with the formation of ad hoc committees? Alright, seeing none, let's move on into New Business. NEW BUSINESS: The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business, New Business. Page 41 Hawaii County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 Vote on Motion To Approve CA -4, Draft 2 (Approved): CHR. ADAMS: We have Communication No. 18.2, which transmitted Charter Amendment 4, Draft 2 for first reading, a proposal to amend Section 6-8.3 relating to the Powers, Duties, and Functions of the Director of the Department of Research and Development submitted by Commissioner Galimba. I would entertain a motion to in fact approve CA -4, Draft 2 for first reading at this time. MS. GALIMBA: 1 so move. CHR. ADAMS: Alright, it has been moved by Commissioner Galimba and seconded by Commissioner Todd. Discussion, Commissioner Galimba? MS. GALIMBA: Does everyone need me to discuss it I guess? It is pretty simple. Okay, great. CHR. ADAMS: Any other discussion? Alright, seeing none, I would like to vote by voice. Let's see how that goes on this particular one. All in favor of approving the motion to move Charter Amendment 4, Draft 2 for first reading please signify by saying "aye", any opposed? Motion passes 11-0. The motion to pass CA -4, Draft 2, on first reading was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano, Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams -- 11 Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: Moving on to Item 2 in New Business, Communication No. 19.2 transmitting Charter Amendment 5 for first reading, Proposal to change each instance of Legislative Auditor to County Auditor appearing in Section 3-18, as submitted by Commissioner Saquing. I would entertain a motion to approve Charter Amendment 5 for first reading. Is there such a motion? It's been moved by Commissioner Saquing. Is there a second? Second by Commissioner Todd. Any discussion? Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: I would again just say that you know, I know that there is a difference of opinion whether this is what do you call it, just correcting you know minor correction, or is it a substantive thing here. My concern is that when we start adding up multiple amendments on here, what happens when it gets to the voters is if we got a bunch of these things up here, they just vote everything down, Page 42 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 including the really important ones, and I basically do not think this one is important enough to require it. CHR. ADAMS: Thanks. Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: My experience has been that they approve everything. If you look at it, there have been very few amendments that have been defeated. It is overwhelmingly a yes vote on everything. I don't know whether that is the reverse psychology of it, that people are just going yes, yes, yes, yes, but I am not concerned about stuff not passing, it's more the stuff that gets defeated. CHR. ADAMS: Any other discussion? Seeing none, we will vote by voice vote. Without objection. All in favor of the motion please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed? (oppose), alright, we have 10-1 majority, 10 to one vote, 10 for, one against, the "naye" being Commissioner Roehrig. Motion passes. Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -5 on first reading was carried by the following To Approve CA -5 voice vote: (Approved): Vote on Motion To Approve CA -6 (Approved): Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano, Hopkins, Rice, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko- Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 10 Noes: Commissioner Roehrig — 1 Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: Moving on to Item No. 3, Communication No. 20.2, transmitting Charter Amendment 6 for first reading, A proposal to authorize Police Commission the authority to discipline the Chief of Police and the Fire Commission the authority to discipline the Fire Chief, as submitted by Commissioner Saquing. I would entertain a motion to approve Charter Amendment 6 for first reading. It has been moved by Commissioner Hopkins, seconded by Commissioner Springer. Is there any discussion? Seeing none, we will take a voice vote. All in favor of the motion please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed? Motion passes 11-0. The motion to pass CA -6 on first reading was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano, Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams --- 11 Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Page 43 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 CHR. ADAMS: Moving on to Communication, Item No. 4, Communication No. 21.55, transmitting Charter Amendment No. 7, Draft 2 for first reading, proposal to amend Section 10-15 and 10-16 by repealing and replacing provisions for the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund and Maintenance Fund, respectively, as submitted by Commissioner Hamann. Is there a motion to approve Charter Amendment No. 7, Draft 2 for first reading? MR. HAMANO: So moved. CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Hamano. Is there a second? I'll second for the purposes of the discussion and vote. Discussion? Commissioner Roehrig. MR. ROEHRIG: After listening to Mr. Sensenig and Toni Withington, I feel ignorant as far as how this proposed change applies to the perpetuity, of how the non -profits get involved and different things but nothing legally from the County. I say, I would like to see you get a written opinion as to the ramifications of how this is going to work, how you know, how non -profits will respond, etc. I don't think we have the knowledge at this point. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: You know, I would like to thank the large number of people who, and groups who took time to come to the meetings today both here in Hilo, the massive numbers of e-mails that have flooded my box and everybody else's boxes that we have gotten. You know I have never expected to see so much comment coming in on this. This is an issue that is really galvanized a lot of people. Most effective in the testimony, which has essentially been except for as was mentioned, except for the Mayor and I forget, one other person, everybody has been against this amendment, proposed amendment and, but it has come from a wide range of groups, not just the usual culprits of the Sierra Club and the various ones here. We have seen a wide range of our community coming out on this one. That has been extremely... it's had a lot of impact on me, seeing these other people who I usually don't see at these environmental meetings coming out. And, based on these things, everything that I have... I have to agree with them, you know? I think this is a bad amendment. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hamann. MR. HAMANO: Chair Adams and members of the Commission, I speak in favor of CA -7, Draft 2 for first reading. You know, I am strongly in favor of the intent of the PONC fund to acquire and maintain lands for public use. I am particularly glad that we have so many citizens of this County that are actively advocating for the PONC fund. And I believe we are all in agreement that the County should have a policy of acquiring and preserving selected lands for public use. Mayor Kim testified before our Commission and has stated that whether or not we have a Page 44 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 PONC fund, he has initiated and closed on acquiring lands for public use when the opportunity was there. CA -7 has had by far the most public testimony than any other proposed Charter Amendment and the overwhelming majority of the testimony has been against CA -7. You know, let me clarify the intent of CA -7 is to set a mandatory minimum amount for the PONC fund but does not restrict the Mayor or the Council from adding more to the PONC fund. As of July 31, 2018, there was over $16 million dollars in the PONC fund and over 2.5 million in the PONC maintenance fund. If those excess funds get too depleted from future acquisitions, the Mayor or the Council can increase the PONC funding. Because we have such a strong advocacy group for PONC acquisitions, I feel strongly that the Mayor's office or the Council will respond appropriately for requests of increase PONC funding and frankly that is where the debate should be regarding funding of County operations and services. The funding of County operations and services should be an Executive and Legislative function where public input and debate can occur. Putting a funding requirement in the Charter is highly unusual and while I support a minimum amount which is reflected in CA -7, I believe an amount greater than the one percent is not appropriate for a Charter provision and is not wise and prudent County policy. Someone testified that the one percent would equal to about 1.5 million, but I believe that is incorrect because the County Finance Director indicated that as of the 2018-2019 budget planned, two percent is over six million dollars, so one percent would be three million. So it is not such a low amount, one percent. And there has also been a lot of testimony about the deletion of the protective covenant or perpetuity clause in the PONC provision. CA -7 streamlines the PONC provision for this reason only, to allow the PONC Commission and the Executive and Legislative branches more flexibility to carry out the intent of the PONC acquisition and maintenance funds. It is not a nefarious attempt to hinder the PONC fund and process. The perpetuity clause was brought to our attention in the ad hoc committee studying this issue of the PONC fund by our Finance Director, and the Director handling the PONC program because the clause has sometimes hindered the County's ability to administer the PONC funds. Changes in title are sometimes necessary for flood control, to improve access, and for the allowance of easements, and to simply negotiate with neighboring landowners for the benefit of the PONC lands. The notion that removing the perpetuity requirement in the deed will prevent the County from receiving grant money or matching funds from other public land and open space entities is false. In negotiations with these entities, the County can always agree to whatever reasonable conditions the entities may require in order for them to provide supplemental funding or matching funds, as this should be the case. In closing, I am glad there is a spirited debate about the PONC provisions in our Charter and that we can openly debate the issues of concern, and I would kindly ask and request my fellow Commissioners that we pass and move along CA -7 Page 45 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 from first reading so we can continue this fruitful and important debate on an issue that is very impactful for our County. Passing CA -7 for first reading or even passage to be placed on the ballot is not subverting democracy. Rather, it is allowing the voters to decide. Allowing the voters to decide this important issue which this Cornmission convened only every 10 years has the duty to consider to be placed before the voters. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Thanks Commissioner Hamann. Any other discussion? Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: Based on the deluge of public opposition to this CA -7, it is just more than I can possibly ignore. I feel I was appointed as a representative of West Hawai`i community on the Charter Commission as well as the island as a whole. The opposition to this Charter Amendment is overwhelming and I am not going to assume to be wiser than the public. I will be voting no and philosophically, I think the preservation of our open spaces is critically important to the future of this island and to our children. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: I am going to propose an amendment in Section 10-15, subsection (a), to change that from 0.75 percent to have "Council shall appropriate a minimum of two percent of certified real property tax revenues to be deposited in a fund known as the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund and an additional 0.25 percent of which shall be deposited into a fund to be called the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Maintenance Fund." And to delete the subsequent paragraph that says "the Council may by two-thirds vote suspend the appropriation when the Finance Director deterinines that the suspension of this appropriation is necessary (inaudible) services." I will leave the rest of it alone because I agree... CHR. ADAMS: Let me make sure we have a second. Do we have a second to this amendment? We have a second. Commissioner Hopkins seconds. Go ahead. MS. TODD: I've kind of had a hard time with this because generally I believe in letting things go up the flagpole, but I also firmly believe that you know, two percent is the appropriate amount that should be set aside at least until such time as we have acquired a number of properties and that is because the money just you know, let's say real property revenues are 400 million, two percent would be eight million, if you look at the property in Ka`u, I think the asking price for that and it has ponds, it has white sand beach and it has a turtle nesting area, I think the asking price is like 15-16 million dollars. There's an additional white sand beach and I don't know whether it sold or not, but it is to the Kona side of Waikaloa and the asking price on that was about 20 million dollars. If the fund accumulates at three million a year, you will never get to that point where you have enough money to buy those big valuable properties and my concern is that Page 46 Hawaii County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 by the time you accumulated enough money that the property would have been sold and there would be so much money invested in development or for the mansion (inaudible) that the opportunity to purchase would be out of reach. And I say this having lived on O`ahu for 12 and a half years and watching lands that I thought would never get developed or change uses, rapidly get urbanized. So you know, anyway, that's my proposal to basically leave it at 2.25 percent and to eliminate the ability of the Council to prevent... suspending the contribution. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: I can see that you are trying to modify this CA -7 but I don't understand, when we have a perfectly good Charter Amendment in CA -9, that we would try to change CA -7 when it has some serious flaws. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, thank you. Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: So yeah, I wanted to ask a similar question as Commissioner Rice's, if Commissioner Todd could outline the difference between amending this CA -7 and just keeping the present language in the Charter. I mean I note one thing already that I would want to take note of which would be the perpetuity clause and whether her not also asking for that is deliberate or... CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: I agree with Commissioner Hamann that we do not need to have that perpetuity clause in the Charter because that is something that you can negotiate with entities when you are looking for matching funds. If it is a requirement that the land have a deed restriction that it be left in perpetuity, the County can agree to that, but there are cases in which you may want to hand it over to a separate entity rather than doing it through a grant. Like you know for me, there are lands that I would like to acquire but the National Park to me would be a better steward than the County Parks and Recreation, and I think you know, I am kind of fascinated by the fact that they are going to give a grant to a non-profit to purchase the Ethnobotanical garden because of, I am not sure, or I question that and I guess I have gone a little... because I thought that the purpose of the fund is for the County to own what we purchase as opposed to giving money to another entity to purchase and so, now if the botanical grant is allowable, then some of my issues about perpetuity are removed because if we can just give money to the National Park to acquire property instead of us having to acquire and then I would be good with that. But, when I am reading the Charter I had some questions about us giving money to a separate entity to purchase property because I..., because you know, when you have the language that says the lands acquired by the public fund shall be held in perpetuity, I don't know how we can give a grant to another entity to purchase under the existing language. I am just wondering, if someone says they are getting it, but I don't think the PONC amendment as it is worded right now, I mean the PONC language allows us to give money. It is for the Page 47 Hawaii County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 County to purchase the property, not for us to give somebody else the money to purchase so I really do question giving that money to the non-profit to purchase the ethnobotanical garden. CHR. ADAMS: I would only, I hesitate, but I would point out that that is really not our call. That is somebody else's at the moment so the, how the current Charter is being implemented is somebody else's call. But for the purposes of talking about that and its impact, that is probably helpful. Do you have any other discussion Commissioner Todd? MS. TODD: No. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hamann. MR. HAMANO: I just want to reiterate that we already have 16 million in the PONC fund. Now I do not believe that the reason we are, it is slow to acquire PONC lands is due to some ineffectiveness in the PONC Commission or the Mayor's office or whoever. It is a long process. There's negotiations, and this has been explained to us by the Director of the PONC funds, that it is a long process, that it takes to actually conceive of, identify, and then acquire the land because there is so much negotiations that goes on. So it is just a natural process and in that process there is an accumulation of funds, which is why we have 16 million in there you know, I just think like two million is too much to commit without any public debate and just a mandatory amount, like over six million dollars per year if County real property tax revenue stays the same, that goes in there. And that is why we had our ad hoc committee that studied that issue and felt that that amount was too much. In fact, of the four people in the ad hoc committee, three of them wanted a lesser amount, point five percent, so you know, CA -7 at least puts one percent in there. So I just feel that it is two percent is too much to commit to be placed in a Charter provision. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: This follows along with a question that was made a little bit earlier, if we approve and I guess we are, because CA -9 is so tightly tied together here, can we discuss them both at the same, because it is part of the issue... on the issue here is if we pass... if CA -7 goes up, do we need to do CA -9 because they are in conflict with each other. I don't... CHR. ADAMS: CA -9 is a different Charter Amendment. We will deal with CA - 9 at a separate time. MR. HOPKINS: But can I get a clarification on, does this CA -7 as written allow for...have money in there and allow for hiring of staff? That's a precise question, we are not talking about 9. We are talking about this one. Does CA -7 as written, I Page 48 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 am not worried about the percentages, does it allow for hiring for staff to manage the fund? I was looking at clause, where...C... CHR. ADAMS: So, let me take a stab if I may, and of course this is just a Commissioner to a Commissioner right. MR. HOPKINS: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: There is nothing that prevents hiring somebody in this particular Charter Amendment, but we understand that there is no provision for hiring somebody in this Charter Amendment either because you have now lost the, you have lost 10-16 as a result of this, right? So, you have funds that are there, they are at 1.75, point seven five percent being the maintenance fund, there is no provision in this particular Charter Amendment for a requirement to hire somebody using those funds right? That's what this says. Okay. Okay? Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: The reason you have a proposal coming up after this to allow funds to hire staff is because the interpretation of the existing language in the Charter says you could not use that money to fund a specific position and the language is separate in nine from seven. I see them as separate amendments. Of course if both passed hypothetically, what you would have is a minimum appropriation of zero point seven five percent per year minimum and it would allow the funds to be used to hire staff if both nine and seven were to pass on the ballot. You know, we don't, what we do does not determine. The public votes. MR. HOPKINS: Okay. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Thanks. So I respect the... speaking on the amendment to CA - 7, and I am very appreciative of Commissioner Todd's amendment, however I feel like it is given the effort that so many people have made to come out to our hearings and to email us, I think that we would be better off keeping our present Charter language so that we won't be dragging people out to all of these hearings again and again because as Senator Rudennan has mentioned, we don't need to be disrespecting the will of the people that has been expressed by at this point, I think hundreds of people, and I mean, that is really unusual to have hundreds of people speaking out on something. People are generally pretty apathetic, so there is a lot of support for the two percent. So I will be, I am not in favor of this amendment and of CA -7. CHR. ADAMS: Any other comments? So let me just make a couple. I am not sure the difference between this amendment and what 15 necessarily looks like, other than the idea of there being no requirement for the land being held in perpetuity being in the language of the Charter. I have frankly gone back and Page 49 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 forth in my mind about the amounts. I go back... I do want to make a comment though about something that has been said in testimony in our public statements and by Commissioners. Part of our responsibility in Charter is to study the operations of government of this County and that means that we take a look at things on a decade basis, and soinetimes those things draw attention and people are wondering after things have been voted on "why are you looking at that stuff again and bringing it up?" and the reason is, is because in the Charter that is our mission and that is our role and so the fact that we have lots of people that are interested in this particular Charter Amendment is great and in Charter Amendment nine, and as it turns out, some of the other Charter Amendments as well. And, I think that that is exactly what this Commission is here for. To actually bring folks that are interested in particular areas out so that they can address them with their friends and neighbors. So I am not as upset about the fact that people are corning out and talking to us. I think that it is great to see the input. What I want to make sure from my perspective is that when we are looking at what seems to be an arbitrary number, is in fact a number that has been voted on as recently as 2012 by the citizens, by the registered voters of this County. Does that mean that that number is the right one? I am not sure and I think that that is part of what this conversation is about because that is what we do. We take a look at that, so I do appreciate the idea that the amount that is, that two percent brings in on an annual basis and then that point seventy five percent brings in on an annual basis is a certain amount based on the revenues that are corning in and that that also has an im... the fact that land costs and the lands that we are talking about preserving costs a lot of money as well. So I guess all of that is motherhood and apple pie and I haven't necessarily said how I am going to vote because I am still trying to figure it out, but I don't want us to think that, I guess part of what I am trying to say is we are doing our job. That is part of what we are supposed to be doing out here, is this. I may vote for the, whenever we get Charter Amendment 7 in first reading, I may vote for that because I frankly am interested in hearing public hearing statements as well from around the island, so and, I don't actually have to make a final decision on this until we vote in Charter Amendment, in second reading, assuming we get that far. So, that is, I would ask Commissioner Todd just so I have an understanding, in your amendment, the idea is, the Council shall appropriate a minimum of two percent of certified real property tax revenues, you said that correct? Okay, and then the... and that will be deposited in a fund known as the Public Access, Open Space and Natural Resources Preservation Fund, yes? And then the remaining... and then there is also another point two five percent which would be deposited into a fund called the Maintenance Fund? Okay, thank you. And then we would delete that next paragraph in A? Thank you. Does everybody understand that amendment? MR. HENRICKS: I understand the math. I am sorry Chair, may I please? I understand the math. It is the wording of course that will need to be, if this is approved, for a Draft 3... Page 50 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 CHR. ADAMS: Right, right. MR. HENRICKS: rectified and I don't want too much discretion when it comes to that opportunity. So, because it currently says... first part I understand, what we would be striking out fairly simple, but then it says "and the remaining .25 percent of which shall be deposited..." CHR. ADAMS: Right, so we would have to take "the retraining" and then it would be, if I may... yes, go ahead Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: When I stated my amendment I changed that language to say "and an additional 0.25 percent shall be deposited into a fund to be called the Public Access..." MR. HENRICKS: Striking of which... MS. TODD: Striking the words "the remaining" and instead saying "and an additional 0.25 percent certified real property tax revenue." MR. HENRICKS: So, striking the words "of which" as well that currently follow .25 percent? MS. TODD: Yes because it would basically be an additional 0.25 percent would be deposited. MR. HENRICKS: Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Right, so as I read sub A in Charter Amendment 7, Draft 2, it would read under this amendment, "in adopting each fiscal year's budget and capital program, the Council shall appropriate a minimum of two percent of certified real property tax revenues and an additional .25 percent shall be deposited into a fund to be called the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Maintenance Fund. I apologize. Let me try that again. After certified real property tax revenues, which I take out .75 percent of and I say which shall be deposited in a fund known as the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund and an additional .25 percent shall be deposited into a fund to be called the PONC Maintenance Fund. MS. TODD: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. And then I don't see anything else in A because the rest of it is gone. Okay, does everybody got that? Okay, do we have that down there? Mr. Yoshimoto? MR. YOSHIMOTO: So then just to be clear, that additional .25 percent comes on top of the two percent, not from the two percent. Page 51 flawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 CHR. ADAMS: Correct. It does not. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Got it. CHR. ADAMS: I believe that is the intent of the amendment. MS. TODD: Yes it is. MR. YOSHIMOTO: So then, an additional 0.25 percent of certified real property tax revenues shall be deposited, is that better or no? CHR. ADAMS: I think MS. TODD: That was the intent. MR. YOSHIMOTO: That's the intent though right and I just want to make clear because then when one part of the sentence says "certified real property tax" but the other one doesn't, then you kind of think... CHR. ADAMS: Sure. Then let's just make it correct. Okay. Make it consistent. Okay. Any other discussion? Alright by roll call vote, let's vote on this, this amendment... MR. HENRICKS: On the amendment to CA -7, Draft 2, Mr. Bergin (yes), Ms. Galirnba (no), Mr. Hamano (no), Mr. Hopkins (yes), Ms. Leithead-Todd (yes), Ms. Rice (no), Mr. Roehrig (abstain), not allowed, I don't think that is allowed by our rules. CHR. ADAMS: I don't think that's in our rules. I think we don't have abstaining in our rules. MR. ROEHRIG: No MR. HENRICKS: Ms. Saquing (yes), Ms. Springer (yes), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (yes), Chair Adams (yes). Chair Adams you have seven votes in favor. Vote on Motion The motion to amend CA -7, Draft 2 was carried by the following roll call vote: To Amend CA -7, Draft 2 Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hopkins, Saquing, Springer, (Approved): Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams -- 7 Noes: Commissioners Galirnba, Hamano, Rice, and Roehrig - 4 Absent: None. Excused: None. Page 52 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 CHR. ADAMS: The amendment passes. Moving back to the Charter Amendment No. 7, Draft 3, as it currently stands, any other discussion? I am sorry, Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: I would like to make another amendment to the Charter. Basically putting in as we are dealing with PONC right here instead of dealing with Charter Amendment No. 9 a little bit later, I think it should be within here and I would like to replace or basically number, or add, I would like to, under D, under D, I would like to put in some language which was put forth by, in Communications 24.62 by the Director of Finance, and who basically and what they were saying is "we could put in there something pay for the salaries, wages, and benefits of staff dedicated to advancing the activities contained within Sections 10-15 and 10-16." I would like to, and I am not quite sure where that one should be plugged in, possibly in maybe add it as a number G, Item G. Yes Ma'am. CHR. ADAMS: I would like to take a recess for six minutes. Why don't you work with the Clerk and any other Commissioners to get that wording straight. MR. HOPKINS: Okay. Okay. RECESS: At 5:02 p.m., the Chair called for a recess. RECONVENE: The meeting reconvened at 5:09 p.rn. CHR. ADAMS: Alright, we are back in session. I understand that we have an amendment that if I may take a moment without objection? Quick question for Mr. Henricks, when it comes to an agenda, this is completely out of order but without objection, if we post, are willing to postpone some of our New Business Items, how do we, I guess the right question is, how do we get from this meeting to having those things on a new meeting's agenda and allowing us to adjourn as opposed to recess? MR. HENRICKS: You would entertain a motion to postpone, second, discussion, successful vote, then it goes on the next agenda. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, so we wouldn't table. We would postpone. MR. HENRICKS: Postpone. Correct. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, thank you. Alright, thanks so much, moving back to the amendment, Mister, Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: Jon could you please read it? Page 53 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 MR. HENRICKS: My pleasure. Mr. Hopkins, I believe he has made a motion that you have not quite recognized and there is no second. CHR. ADAMS: But we haven't even heard... MR. HENRICKS: Right, so I am going to read it in now. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. MR. HENRICKS: And then he may make his motion again and for the record if you don't mind. There would be a new subsection E displacing E and F to be re - lettered, and the new subsection E would read "The monies in these funds may be used to pay for the salary, wages, and benefits of staff dedicated to advancing the activities contained within this section." CHR. ADAMS: Is that the amendment? MR. HOPKINS: That is the amendment. CHR. ADAMS: So it has been moved, is there a second? The second is by Commissioner Saquing. Any discussion? Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: The reason why I am trying to put this in one place is one, I am trying to preclude competing amendments a little bit later on and also I am responding to the comments made by the Finance Director in her Communication No. 24 dash 62 where she indicated that there may be some fatal errors within CA -9 because it is so precise and you know, our problem right here, right now is because of a legal opinion and I am well aware that when we get two lawyers together, we are going to come up with at least five mutually exclusive opinions, so I would hate to get this all confused like this. So I ani just trying to straighten it up, put it all in one place, and just make it nice and clear, that yes, we can use the monies for this. It does not create, formally say what has to be created and the other ones... those details are not there and the reason they are deliberately not there is because I have the problems you know, I recognize the problems that the Finance Director has identified. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Other discussion? Seeing none, we will vote on this amendment by roll call. MR. HENRICKS: On the motion to amend CA -7, Draft 2 as amended, Mr. Bergin (yes), Mr. Galimba (yes), Mr. Harnano (yes), Mr. Hopkins (yes), Ms. Leithead-Todd (yes), Ms. Rice (no), Mr. Roehrig (yes), Ms. Saquing (yes), Ms. Springer (yes), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (yes), Chair Adams (yes). Chair Adams you have 10 votes in favor. Page 54 Hawaii County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 Vote on Motion The motion to amend CA -7, Draft 2 was carried by the following roll call vote: To Amend CA -7, Draft 2 Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano, (Approved): Hopkins, Rice, Roelirig, Saquing, , Springer, Todd, Zelko- Schlueter, and Chair Adams – 10 Noes: Commissioners Rice - 1 Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: The motion passes. The naye vote was already in the roll call. So we move back down to Charter Amendment No. 7, Draft 4. Any other discussion? Before we take a vote on this, 1 would ask something that... I would ask our Legal Analyst to take on a particular task without objection, that was put forward by Commissioner Roehrig. The impact of not including the in perpetuity clause. I have heard a variety of opinions from Commissioners here, I think it would be helpful to have some idea. I think it would be helpful for the Commission to have some idea regarding the impact of not including it in Charter Amendment No. 7. So tell me if that's not something that you could do. Mr. Yoshimoto. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Okay, several things, first of all my initial take is that you know, as the County we can contract in whatever way we want to right? The comments by Ms. Leithead-Todd and Mr. Haman are... I agree with those comments. I am not aware of any restrictions or conditions that certain organizations have. I am not sure that that is a legal opinion, more like a finding out what certain organizations will provide grants—under what restrictions or conditions. And I can still research that, but I am not sure that that's a legal opinion. But I will look into it. I mean that's the request and I will look into that. In terms of the actual language itself, and this is just a thought, if the Commission wants to consider it, another possibility is to state that keep a perpetuity clause but also allow a specific provision that allows for the transfer, conveyance, to another Federal or State agency with consistent purposes, for the benefit of the people of Hawaii, so you are making sure that the perpetuity stays in the Charter and then that the uses can be transferred, but only within the purposes as set forth in this section. I mean that to me is another more easy and direct way to—rather than getting lawyers involved, you just say what you want right, so I mean, that is just a thought. So yes, I will do it. Page 55 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: At the same time would you also look at the issue of whether you could transfer to a non-profit that would own and operate the land for the same purposes? And I am thinking specifically of the Amy Greenwell. CHR. ADAMS: I object to that. That's not our call. That belongs to somebody else. MS. TODD: I think it is relevant because if the determination is that it is not permissible than I would want to add the language that you could transfer over. CHR. ADAMS: I withdraw my objection. Okay. MR. YOSHIMOTO: So to be clear, the question is whether the, our PONC funds can be used, I am sorry, why don't you... MS. TODD: The question is whether the PONC funds can only be used to purchase an interest on behalf of the County, or whether the PONC funds can be used to give grants to other entities like a non-profit that would then purchase the property and it could be, we give the money to the National Park Service to buy something, you give the money to the State to purchase something, you give the money to a non-profit to purchase, as opposed to the County having to be required to be on title. That's the question that 1 have. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Okay. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hamano. MR. HAMANO: Chair I have a point of order or, I just wanted to get this on the record. Just so that we are clear. I kind of question the amendment which changes the number from the original .75 percent for the acquisition fund and .25 percent for the maintenance fund. The amendment which changed that back to basically two percent for the acquisition fund and .25 percent for the maintenance fund, because that amendment basically contradicts the entire intent of the original proposal in the first place and I believe under Robert's Rules of Order that is not a permissible amendment. CHR. ADAMS: I would ask our parliamentarian to weigh in. MR. HENRICKS: If the sole intent of this amendment was to reduce the funding amounts then certainly I would, I think that would be an applicable argument but there are other components of this amendment that change the Charter in substantial ways such as removing the Section 10-16 in its entirety and replacing it in a more simplified manner, the perpetuity clause that was talked about, so because this proposal has more substantial elements than just the funding amounts Page 56 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 I don't believe it would be necessarily out of order to revert the funding amounts to what they are in the Charter now, but it is an interesting argument and I think ultimately it would be up to the Commission to make that determination. CHR. ADAMS: Right. I think, you correct me if I am wrong Mr. Henricks, I think I can make a ruling on that particular point of order but then... MR. HENRICKS: Correct. CHR. ADAMS: But then the Commission can also vote. MR. HENRICKS: Yes, that is the... CHR. ADAMS: If there is a desire for that. MR. HENRICKS: That is the process. CHR. ADAMS: So I would, in other words, I would say "without objection, point of order is noted" and then if someone would object, then we would hold a vote on that question. So, without objection, point noted. MR. HENRICKS: But you didn't make a ruling on the... CHR. ADAMS: So the ruling is that we are going to keep the Charter Amendment, the amendment that we had, still is valid. MR. HENRICKS: Okay, so the point of order has been denied. CHR. ADAMS: Right. MR. HENRICKS: Okay. MR. HAMANO: Oh, so I object. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. MR. ROEHRIG: Maybe someone go look it up instead of guessing. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: Addressing the objection, if our agenda had stated that the purpose of the communication was to reduce the amount from 2.25 percent to 1 percent, then I would agree that it was an inappropriate amendment because it would not be consistent with what was on the agenda and what was transmitted as the purpose, but when I looked at the amendment, I looked at the agenda and it just said "Proposal to amend by repealing and replacing" and it didn't state what the Page 57 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 purpose of the amendments were and so I felt comfortable proposing amendments (inaudible). CHR. ADAMS: Is that it? Thanks. Alright, so I am cognizant of Commissioner Roehrig's comments and concerns and I don't really want to go back around and do this all over again if I was wrong in our conversation. So I would entertain a motion to, we are in the middle—we are in a motion, we haven't voted on it, I don't know if I can postpone it or table it, I forget now. The idea would be for us to be able to gather the information on the point of order. MR. HENRICKS: I hate to tell ya, I don't think that I can look in this book and find an answer. It is going to be subjective as to whether or not Mr. Hamano's point is if that was an improper amendment because it reverted a portion... CHR. ADAMS: No, that's not... MR. HENRICKS: A portion of the amendment... CHR. ADAMS: Right, so, if I am ruling on it because I have the authority as the Chair to rule... MR. HENRICKS: Correct. CHR. ADAMS: On the point of order... MR. HENRICKS: Correct. CHR. ADAMS: That's pretty clear, and then if there is an objection to my ruling... MR. HENRICKS: Correct. CHR. ADAMS: That does require then a vote of the body. I am getting... MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Hamann made a motion to appeal your ruling. You can accept that motion and ask for a second and then go into discussion and take a vote on it. CHR. ADAMS: Alright. Is there a second to Mr. Harano's motion to appeal my ruling? Alright, it is seconded by Commissioner Roehrig. Discussion. Commissioner Roehrig. MR. ROEHRIG: How about you go look into it legally instead of giving us what you think about it. The book is right there, maybe it will take a little while to go look at it and you can come back and tell us later. Page 58 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 MR. HENRICKS: I am familiar with these procedures and what I have said to you, my analysis is that I understand Mr. Harnano's point is that he feels a reversion of the figures is an improper amendment. However, there were other portions as Ms. Leithead-Todd has stated, that make this more than an amendment to change the percentages. So, it is up to the Chair to make a ruling as to whether or not... CHR. ADAMS: The point of order is... MR. HENRICKS: And he has. And that ruling has been appealed, so now it is up to the body to decide whether or not... CHR. ADAMS: The Chair was right in denying it. MR. HENRICKS: Correct. MR. ROEHRIG: (inaudible) Look it up, the fact is something else in the—her motions so what (inaudible) percentages, so she is undoing it, in fact she has some other stuff, manini stuff too. It doesn't change that... CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Roehrig. MR. ROEHRIG: (inaudible) I suggest you go and look it up in the rule book. CHR. ADAMS: So the motion that is on the table right now, there has already been a point of order made. You just made the same point of order right? I made a ruling on that point of order that denied the point of order, there was an objection to that, and in that objection there is a motion which you have seconded. The vote that we will be taking, I want to make sure that our analysts are paying attention... alright, so I wanted to make sure that what I was about to say, you guys actually heard. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Oh, I am sorry. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. So, the—we are at the point where we are about to take a vote on a motion, the motion is not specifically about the point of order because I have already made a ruling on that. It is whether or not my ruling needs to be overcome if it is in fact overcome, then that's, then we have to deal with that situation. Go ahead, Mr. Yoshimoto. MR. YOSHIMOTO: So since we are following the rules, which we should right, we must, technically speaking there needs to be a motion for reconsideration because the amendment is already done as far as Ms. Leithead-Todd, so the objection should have occurred prior to taking the vote on the amendment. So we want to get things straight for the record. There needs to be a motion for Page 59 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 reconsideration on the vote for the amendment. Does that make sense? Because... CHR. ADAMS: Yes. It does. So I would move to reconsider because I was in the prevailing. MR. HENRICKS: Well, we still have a motion on the floor to appeal the ruling of the Chair seconded by Mr. Roehrig. CHR. ADAMS: That's right. MR. HENRICKS: That needs to be dealt with first before we have any other motions. CHR. ADAMS: But my understanding is I can't do that until...I am sorry? MR. HENRICKS: And then, it would be good to ask for the maker of the motion to withdraw his motion at this time. CHR. ADAMS: Alright, that way we can get back into the motion. So, would the maker of the motion that is currently on the floor withdraw his motion? MR. HAMANO: What is the consequence of that? CHR. ADAMS: We are going to go back and reconsider, we are going to reconsider the vote that we took so that we can then consider your point of order in the proper sequence. You have to trust me, we are going to do that. MR. HAMANO: Procedurally, yes, okay, I agree with that. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, so... MR. HAMANO: I withdraw. CHR. ADAMS: Second okay with that? MR. ROEHRIG: I don't know where we are at (inaudible). CHR. ADAMS: Where we are at, in order to do this properly, we need to be inside the original amendment from Commissioner Todd. To do that, we have to reconsider that vote. To do that, we need—because we are cun-ently in a motion right now dealing with a point of order, or my ruling on a point of order, we need to come out of that. So, the maker of the motion has withdrawn his motion but you made the second and so we need... MR. ROEHRIG: (inaudible) Page 60 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Alright, so now... Commissioner Todd. We're... right now we are in nothing. MS. TODD: Is the other amendment on the floor though? CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins' is still on the floor and we are talking about it because we were... MS. TODD: Because we have to... CHR. ADAMS: Deal with that one... MS. TODD: Deal with that one before we can get back to that right... CHR. ADAMS: That's true. That is absolutely true. MR. HENRICKS: I think that you guys voted on that. CHR. ADAMS: Alright, we will get there. I promise. MR. HENRICKS: I believe that amendment was voted on. I know it is difficult because we are going... CHR. ADAMS: No, no, no, no, so we had a 10-1... MR. HENRICKS: Correct. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, great. So what we were at, actually right now is before we were going to vote... MR. HENRICKS: The main motion as amended. CHR. ADAMS: Alright, so actually... no, we are good. So, I would move to reconsider or I would entertain a motion to reconsider from a member of the prevailing side, the amendment, well, we have had several prior amendments, so the amendment that was moved by Coirunissioner Todd. Is there such a motion? MS. TODD: For the purposes of discussion, I so move. CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second? MR. HAMANO: Can I second? Page 61 Hawaii County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 CHR. ADAMS: I don't think so. I'll second. MR. HAMANO: Okay. CHR. ADAMS: Discussion. Commissioner Todd. She made the motion. MS. TODD: Okay. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hamann. MR. HENRICKS: This is just, you need to vote before you go, we have to vote on the reconsideration. You can discuss that. CHR. ADAMS: Can we discuss the reconsideration? MR. HENRICKS: You can discuss the actual reconsideration, but before you go back into discussion like we weren't—we didn't amend it yet... CHR. ADAMS: There is no debate on the reconsider... MR. HENRICKS: There is. There is. CHR. ADAMS: Oh, oh, that's the motion we are in right now. MR. HENRICKS: That is to reconsider, correct. CHR. ADAMS: Right. And so we can... MR. HENRICKS: But whether or not it—you are going to decide right now whether or not you want to even go back into the amendment. CHR. ADAMS: So is there a discussion on that? MR. HENRICKS: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Commissioner Hamann. MR. HAMANO: Now, you know, I am not doing this just to make a problem here right? Because obviously the integrity of the voting process and how we get there is important otherwise someone can subsequently challenge that and you know, all that we did might be for naught, okay, so, my concern is you know, I raised that concern, I like what Chair Adams has indicated that you know, once we make a decision here that puts us in neutral, that you know, we just push it to Corp Counsel (Corporation Counsel) and the Clerk's office to at least give it a Page 62 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 shot okay, looking into that issue and coining back to us with their best shot as to what they found out, and then we can decide. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Any other... Commissioner Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: It wasn't clear. What are we throwing over to Corp Counsel? CHR. ADAMS: Okay, if we could speak into our mics please. MS. GALIMBA: I am sorry. I wasn't clear Commissioner Hamano, on what we were throwing over to Corp Counsel to make clear. MR. HAMANO: Making clear to us whether the amendment made by Commissioner Leithead-Todd is a proper amendment to the initial amendment. MS. GALIMBA: Gotcha. Is that something that he can... MR. HENRICKS: So, if we are going to go into that now, that's fine because it is kind of the point of whether you guys want to reconsider or not, so I think it is germane to talk about... CHR. ADAMS: Right. MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Harnano's concern about... so, what Robert's says essentially, and I think this is where you are corning from and hopefully you'll confirin. "An improper amendment is one that merely makes the adoption of the amended question equivalent to a rejection of the original motion." In essence it reverts it back to what was there before. Is that, that's your contention, and that is your—that would be your point of order if you were allowed to make it. MR. HAMANO: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: Right. So where we are in the, if I may, where we are in this process, so that we all understand, is that we have a motion and a second on the floor to reconsider the vote, reconsider the motion, what is the right way to say that? MR. HENRICKS: The vote. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, to reconsider the vote. Once we, if we in fact, so what's the consequences of doing that? If we vote to do that, we are then back in a motion state with the amendment that Commissioner Todd presented where a point of order would then be allowable, and then we could get back and deal with the stuff that we were dealing with before on the point of order. Is everybody Page 63 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 following? I needed to say it so I knew where we were at. Okay. So, we have a motion on the floor and a second. We are dealing with reconsidering the vote on the amendment that Commissioner Tadd placed which essentially, which essentially said two percent for the PONC fund, .25 percent for the maintenance fund and took out the Council two-thirds vote suspending the appropriation. Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: Just a point of clarification. If we do not vote to reconsider, what does that mean? CHR. ADAMS: It means that the— it means that the vote stands and we don't go back to a point of order because we have already, that's already done. MR. HOPKINS: Okay. Thank you. CHR. ADAMS: Alright. Alright, let's try voice vote first. All in favor of the motion to reconsider... MR. BERGIN: I think Paul has a question. CHR. ADAMS: Oh, I apologize. I didn't see it. Commissioner Hamano. MR. HAMANO: I am sorry, yeah. However, okay, like I said, the only reason I am bringing this up is to preserve the integrity of the amendment that Ms. Leithead-Todd is trying to push forward okay. I am not, that's... CHR. ADAMS: Right. Got it. MR. HAMANO: And I want that to be clear so that you know, once we get it clarified and we give it our best shot, that she can go forward with that amendment. CHR. ADAMS: And that's why you would encourage a vote "aye" on this motion. MR. HAMANO: Exactly. CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: If we vote for reconsideration, I would want the Clerk and our attorney to look at prior communications and whether those prior communications stated the purpose of this amendment because what we have—we have an agenda which says this is the purpose, but if there was a communication earlier that said the purpose was specifically to reduce it from two and a quarter to a total of one Page 64 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 percent, the would that impact whether I made an improper motion under Robert's. CHR. ADAMS: Right, and I appreciate that. 1 would wait for us to have that conversation after the point of order has been made. Thank you. Alright, any other discussion on the motion to reconsider? Commissioner Rice. MS. RICE: I just want to be clear as to what I am doing. So, we are going to vote to reconsider Commissioner... MR. HENRICKS: I am sorry, your microphone is not on. MS. RICE: MR. HENRICKS: That's...I am sorry. MR. HENRICKS: That's okay. MS. RICE: We are going to vote to reconsider the amendment? CHR. ADAMS: The vote on the amendment. MS. RICE: The vote on the amendment. CHR. ADAMS: That's right. MS. RICE: Okay. I got it. CHR. ADAMS: In other words, a vote to reconsider means we come back as if we never took a vote. The motion still stands. MS. RICE: Okay. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Voice vote, all in favor of the motion to reconsider please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed? (no). The ayes have it by call of the Chair. MR. HENRICKS: We will need a vote count for the record. CHR. ADAMS: Okay. MR. HENRICKS: I will be happy to call a roll if you'd like. CHR. ADAMS: Why don't we call the roll. Page 65 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 MR. HENRICKS: On the motion to reconsider the amendment proposed and previously adopted as made by Commissioner Todd, Mr. Bergin (yes), Ms. Galimba (no), Mr. Hamann (yes), Mr. Hopkins (no), Ms. Leithead-Todd (inaudible), Ms. Rice (no), Ms. Roehrig (inaudible), Ms. Saquing (yes), Ms. Springer (yes), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (yes), Chair Adams (yes). Chair Adams, you have 8 votes in favor. Vote on Motion The motion to reconsider CA -7, Draft 2, as proposed amendment, was carried by To Reconsider the following roll call vote: CA -7, Draft 2 (Approved): Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hamann, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams – 8 Noes: Commissioners Galimba, Hopkins, and Rice - 3 Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. ADAMS: Motion to reconsider the vote on the amendment by Commissioner Todd is, ah, passes and that vote is set aside. Commissioner Hamann. MR. HAMANO: Yes, at this time I would like to raise a point of order as to whether the amendment made by Commissioner Leithead-Todd is a proper amendment under Robert's Rules of Order and I would suggest that in order to come to that decision, we postpone a decision on this particular, you know, on this amendment and allow the Corporation Counsel and the County Clerk's office to do some research and to give us a better idea as to the grounds that we are standing on. CHR. ADAMS: Do I need to make a ruling immediately on this? Really, I am just asking for clarification. MR. HENRICKS: Go ahead. MR. YOSHIMOTO: The point of order is being raised to the Chair, so the Chair would, would... CHR. ADAMS: Make a ruling on this. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Yeah. CHR. ADAMS: I can—so if I accept the point of order, then I would entertain a motion to... I want to make sure so, I have two choices. I can either accept or I Page 66 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 can decline and by declining if somebody objects then we would vote on my ruling and that would be that side. If I accept, then we are in the position where we have, we are in this stasis when it comes to the motion until we do something? MR. HENRICKS: If you were to, if you were to agree with Mr. Hamano's point of order, then Ms. Leithead-Todd's motion would not be on the floor anymore. Correct? MR. YOSHIMOTO: Yes. CHR. ADAMS: We can have discussion. Commissioner Todd. MS. TODD: I guess the question I have is someone raised an objection, does the Chair have the discretion to suspend the voting and ask for an opinion from the Clerk and the attorney at our next meeting if possible, because we may need to look at the entire record of the ad hoc committee report etc. etc. to see whether my motion was an improper motion because it defeats the purpose of the proposed amendment. MR. HENRICKS: I don't think the ad hoc committee report is involved in this in any way, personally... CHR. ADAMS: Really the question is whether or not I have the ability to not have to make a decision right now and ask you all to take a look at it. I don't have that authority right? I need to make a decision. MR. HENRICKS: Well, in order to stop the proceedings, the Commission needs to make a decision. You could stop right now if you were post if there was an agreement to postpone this matter and we would stop right where we are, which is on the motion to amend with the language that Commissioner Todd offered. CHR. ADAMS: Right. MR. HENRICKS: With the understanding that the amendment that Mr. Hopkins offered was approved, so we are still on CA -7, Draft 2, as amended, but in the middle of a motion to amend that was reconsidered where Mr. Hamann has raised a point of order, that you preferred not to make a ruling on at this point in time. CHR. ADAMS: No, I am not, I am not preferring one way or the other. I am just asking for my options because then what happens is that I can't do anything else about any of the rest of the agenda and we would go into recess. There wouldn't be... we can continue on with the rest of the meeting? MR. YOSHIMOTO: Continue on. You're just postponing this matter to the next meeting right? Just like the other matters you were talking about. If you wanted to... Page 67 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 CHR. ADAMS: So the next time that we would see this particular item, would be to pull it out of it being postponed and there would be me having to deal with the point of order. MR. HENRICKS: That is my understanding, yes. CHR. ADAMS: Alright, so I would, I would recognize Commissioner Roehrig. MR. ROEHRIG: It is 5:40 p.m., why don't we go ahead and postpone today. CHR. ADAMS: Okay, yeah, thank you for that. Commissioner... well, I don't see anybody else, okay, so I would entertain a motion to postpone Item 4, Commissioner number, Communication No. 21.55 where we are right now. MR. HAMANO: So moved. CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second (second). It has been moved by Commissioner Hamann and seconded by Commissioner Todd to postpone. Any discussion? All in favor please signify by saying "aye". Any opposed? The ayes have it 11-0. Alrighty. So, moving on to Item number, okay so we have five, six, seven, eight, nine, I would entertain, can we do this altogether or do I need to do this one at a time? Vote on Motion The motion to postpone CA -7, Draft 2, was carried by the following voice vote: To Postpone CA -7, Draft 2 Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano, (Approved): Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 11 Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. MR. YOSHIMOTO: I think you can do it collectively as long as the body agrees there's no objections to it. CHR. ADAMS: Alright, I would entertain a motion to postpone Items 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 under New Business until our next regularly scheduled meeting. MS. TODD: So moved. CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Roehrig. Is there a second? Seconded by Commissioner Saquing. Any discussion? All in favor please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed ? Motion passes 11-0. Moving on to, Page 68 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 Vote on Motion To Postpone CA -8, CA -9 Draft 2 CA -11, CA -12 And CA -13 (Approved): so—alright, so moving on to Reports, we have none. We have any referrals for Executive Session? Seeing none, our Agenda Items for our Next Regularly Scheduled Meeting, any suggestions for future agenda items from Commissioners? Item No. 2 on there is just letting you, letting me let you know... Yes, Commissioner Saquing. The motion to postpone CA -8, CA -9, Draft 2, CA -11, CA -12, and CA -13 was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamann, Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams –1 1 Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. MS. SAQUING: If I could add a suggestion for future meetings. If we could get an updated timeline on our process and where we are (inaudible). CHR. ADAMS: Okay. We can make a communication to chat about that. Absolutely. Item No. 2, Discussion of Rules of Procedure for Conducting Public Hearings. For those of you who have actually you know, looked at the rules on a daily basis, you may note that we don't actually have we have very little in there that talks about the public... the way we are going to handle the public hearings, so the pin -pose of this is to let you know that we are going to have a conservation about that next time okay? Alright. Any other things in that particular area under Agenda Items? Okay... Announcements. MEETING The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of ANNOUNCEMENT: business, Meeting Announcement. CHR. ADAMS: Next regularly scheduled meeting is February 8, 2019 in Hilo. We will without objection, the time will be looked at and we will take into consideration driving times, but given the fact that it will be a regularly scheduled meeting, we will have all of the public testimony and statements and all of that kind of stuff as well that we will have to take into consideration in terms of the amount of time we will have available, so the time will be a TBD (To Be Determined), without objection? Can I do that? Do I have to identify the time? Page 69 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 MR. YOSHIMOTO: For the next meeting you are saying that time is to be determined? CHR. ADAMS: Right. MR. YOSHIMOTO: It is no longer 1:30 p.m.? or... CHR. ADAMS: Right. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Or we don't know that yet? CHR. ADAMS: We don't know that. We don't know the time yet. No. The time in here says 1:30 p.m. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Right. CHR. ADAMS: What 1 am saying is, is that based on the conversation that we had as a part of the communication, the understanding is that times, dates, frequencies, all snake this something that we are going to be taking a look at, so maybe that we push our time forward for the February 8th meeting. Do we need to do that today? MR. YOSHIMOTO: I would recommend we do that today because we have everyone here, I mean, if, if, possible, but if you can't, then I suppose you... CHR. ADAMS: So, let's say 11:00 a.m., how does that sound? MS. RICE: Eleven sounds great. It gives us enough time. Oops. CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins? Oh, 1 am sorry, I didn't know you were done there. Hold on. Commissioner Hopkins. MR. HOPKINS: Eleven is fine. I just have a question. If we are going to do it at 11:00 a.m. can I order in some pizzas for us? CHR. ADAMS: Yeah, we will deal with the logistics of doing that. Sure. Alright, so then the announcement would be that without objection, date February 8, 2019, time, 11:00 a.m., place, the Hilo Council Chambers. Hearing no objections, also, I think it is okay for me to announce the Financial Disclosures. Can I make a comment? Alright. The rules on the Confidential Financial Disclosure Forms, we filled these out after we were confinned and held our first meeting. By the rules these are then supposed to be done every year that you are on this Commission and that starts January 1, which means January 31st is the turn in date for these items okay? Alright. Page 70 Hawai`i County Charter Commission -7 January 25, 2019 MS. RICE: Can we scan those and send them in? CHR. ADAMS: 1 would ask you to get with Shannon to figure out the best way to work that. Okay. Great. Seeing no other discussion, would entertain a motion to adjourn the 7th Session. It has been moved by Commissioner Hopkins, seconded by Commissioner Springer. All in favor please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed? Motion passes 11-0. Thank you all for doing what you do. Vote on Motion There being no further business, at 5:48 p.m. Commissioner Hopkins moved that Adjourn the meeting be adjourned. Seconded by Commissioner Springer and carried by (Approved): the following voice vote: Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamann, Hopkins, Rice Roehrig, Saquing, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams —11 Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Commission Approval: February 8, 2019 lass Shipman dams, Chair 28-2020 Hawai`i County Charter Commission Page 71