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Home My WebLink About2018-11-13 Game Management Advisory Commission Minutes Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 Game Management Advisory Commission County of Hawaii Meeting Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 Time: 6:30 p.m. Place: Hawaii County Building – Council Chambers I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL: Meeting was called to order at 6:30 pm. Stanley Mendes, District 1 – here Kean Umeda, District 2 – here James O’Keefe, District 3 – present Naniloa Poglen, District 4 - here Thomas H. Lodge, District 5 - here Grayson Hashida, District 6 - here Bronsten-Glenn “Kalei” Kossow, District 7 - here Teresa Nakama, District 8 – present George Donev, District 9 - here Quorum established ALSO PRESENT: Malia Hall, Corporation Counsel Donna Urban-Higuchi, Executive Assistant to Mayor Kim GUESTS: Kanalu Sproat, DOFAW, Wildlife Manager – West Hawaii Office Joey Mello, DLNR, Wildlife Program Manager –East Hawaii CALL TO ORDER APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES TL: James O’Okeefe moved for approval of the October 23, 2018 meeting minutes as submitted. Seconded by Bronsten Kossow and carried unanimously. 1 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 BUDGET REPORT TL: Stanley Mendes moved for approval of the Budget as submitted. Seconded by James O’Keefe and carried unanimously by voice vote. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC OLD BUSINESS: a. Kanalu Sproat, DOFAW-West Hawai’i – update Pu’uanahulu, Pu’u Wa’awa’a, Habitat Conservation Plan (HCP) KS: I’ve had conversations with State Parks manager over there and they’re open to us opening a special hunt there – I didn’t really want to talk about it yet cause we don’t have anything set or final – but we have been in discussion with to open a special hunt in the area – to answer the question specifically about is it possible to move animals from there over to Puuanahulu or Puuwaawaa – is it possible – sure. Is it likely? Probably not. So – is it possible – yeah, it’s possible, like I said – is it likely? I don’t think so mostly because we couldn’t remove all of the goats in one – anyways – and there are a lot of compliance issues with federal and state endangered species act which would really limit what kind of funding we could use to do that type of a project and so I don’t have any funding that would necessarily allow me to do that on a large scale – but I would prefer to go the route of trying to do a special hunt in the area – which is what we’ve been working on. TN: Your special hunting – who’s part of your group that you’re talking with besides State Parks? KS: In the meeting that day we also had people from Aquatic Resources, I think, and Auntie Kuulei was there – Keakealani. That was that one meeting – that one day was almost a year ago that we had the meeting – that was it – so it wasn’t – we haven’t expanded much from the one-time sit down. Like I said – they were open to the idea. It’s in our court now to come back with them with a proposal – we’ve just been extremely busy on moving along with that. TN: Did you have any hunters? KS: Not then – because it was kind of preliminary – I didn’t want to include anybody yet – as we move forward – I would include hunters. TN: Would you include hunters in the planning? 2 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 KS: Yes, But like I said – so that was a one-time meeting. It was the very first time we brought it up so I didn’t think it was appropriate to include them yet – but as we move forward – yes. TN: Because I know DOCARE has been concerned over it for the past 10 years so it’s been a very longtime issue so how could we move it forward faster? KS: I can make another meeting with them and include hunting community. Yeah, it’s on me – so I just got to make the time. So I mean I can’t really say right now I’m gonna do it next week or whatever, I would need to contact them again and start that. Anyways, it’s on me – I don’t know what else to say. TN: What would you need in the way of support to kick start this? KS: That’s a good question. Nothing – I think just moving it forward. How about I’ll send out an email in the next – before the end of this week and I’ll include all of you guys and email State Parks again – Dean – and how about we start there – I’ll send an email out by the end of this week to try to make a meeting to move forward with that. TN: And could I include my response to you – some hunters that are interested? Or some organizations that are hunting organizations that would be interested – I’ll put the word out – are you OK with that? Can I have your contact number? KS: I think I gave it last time I was here too but 808.339-0983. TL: Have you at all discussed moving goats from Kiholo into Puuwaawaa or Puuanahulu at all? KS: No, not moving goats. TL: Is that something that should be considered since we have an HCP that’s languishing? KS: Goats – is it something we will consider? Yes... as far as the number of goats in Puuanahulu and Puuwaawaa right now – it’s not something that I’m extremely concerned about cause there’s quite a bit of goats already. TL: Well, how many goats are there? KS: I honestly don’t know – I just know that we’ve harvested near 400 a year for the last – as long as I’ve been here and so the hunters are having success with that hunt – I would be more concerned for goats about improving the 3 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 quality of the animal – but to make more animals there – is it something that I’ve been stressing about. TL: How many goats do you think that that area would hold? KS: I have no idea. We’re gonna finally move – start estimating the population down in the makai section of the two areas Puuanahulu and Puuwaawaa. Probably the beginning of next year so what we did was we started – we’re doing a camera trap study – I’m sure you guys have questions about that – and we started it last year in the mauka section of Puuanahulu and Puuwaawaa. We did it again this year – just mauka – we’re gonna move the cameras makai but before we move ‘em makai PTA – Brian Leo at PTA requested that we assist him with a similar study in Keaumoku – and so actually tomorrow I’m going out with him – we’re gonna put cameras out and leave ‘em out for about a month – so we’re limited on the number of cameras we have – we can only do one area at a time – so as far as how many animals – I have not idea – but we are gonna move cameras down into that area in the next couple of months and start getting an idea of how many animals are there now. How many there are I don’t know. TL: How would you determine carrying capacity? KS: I think I talked about this the last time I was here – and if I didn’t I apologize. I’m not interested in carrying capacity. It’s not a number that I want to even come close to. TL: Why not? KS: Carrying capacity is the max number of animals that you can have on a landscape before the population starts to deteriorate. I don’t – I think they would eat themselves out of house and home... TL: \[Unclear\] We’re not saying that you want to have the animals there at carrying capacity – the question was – how would you determine the carrying capacity? KS: I’m not interested in determining carrying capacity so... TL: What are you interested in – when it comes to sustainability of animals in the area? KS: I’m interested in providing enough hunting to support the demand for hunting. TL: What about sustainability? 4 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 KS: We’re harvesting 400 animals a year – just goats in Puuwaawaa and it hasn’t gone down or up in the four or five years I’ve been here. TL: How many animals are there? How do you know they haven’t gone up or down? KS: I don’t know. So you ;can get upset about it but the number of animals being harvested every single year hasn’t changed and I’m just being honest with you – I don’t know. I’m trying to find out and we have plans to do that... NP: I think the last time you said that the US Fish and Wildlife wouldn’t permit carrying capacity of the land – is that true? KS: I can’t really speak for them. I can say based on my interactions with them – I don’t think they would – but it’s not... The US Fish and Wildlife... KS: The US Fish and Wildlife has – they can kind of dictate how we spend the money that they give us so whether they allow it or not is based is how we spend federal grants from them. TN: In allowing hunting – is it seasonal – is it quarterly – I mean, four, five times a year? KS: Hunting at Puuanahulu is weekends and State holidays starting the first weekend of March to the last weekend of June. Hunting at Puuwaawaa right now is starting the first weekend in August – weekends and State holidays for archery four weekends and for muzzle loader the next three weekends after that. The information is online. On our website. KS: I’m not interested in carrying capacity because that’s much more animals than I think is reasonable to have on the landscape. I am interested in trying to improve and increase the hunting opportunity. Carrying capacity is a very old theoretical concept. It’s not wrong, it’s not that – but it’s not something that I’m gonna actively go out and try to find out that this area can support however many sheep – I’m more interested in providing hunting opportunities and increasing those opportunities and monitoring the population on what it does. We haven’t done that as an agency and I’m trying to start that now – the monitoring of how that population fluctuates. We don’t have the information and I’m trying to start to gather that – so that I mean – that’s why I say that. 5 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 It’s not that I don’t want to have sustainable hunting – I do – we just don’t have the information to get to that yet. ?: You are talking about the quality of the game – right? KS: That’s for goats. ?: Yeah, for the – so now – we – I’ve been hunting over here in Puuanahulu so I see sick goats, you know, skinny, sick, stunted and then I think it was Jeff – Jeff was telling me that he shot two with worms and everything so what we going do about you know and you know the goats in – down in Keahole – it may be a different breed... KS: Kiholo? Sorry? ?: Kiholo... May be different breed – may be some of them can come up so you know get inbreed with you know what I’m saying so then now you get better... KS: I’m not against moving animals from one place to another... I’m just not sure I would be allowed to do it from anybody above me. So I’m just saying what’s likely to happen. It’s not that I don ‘t want it to happen – It’s not – it’s just being honest with you – whether it’s likely that I’m allowed to move animals from one area to another – that’s a question that I don’t think is likely. ?: And also another thing – now it burned – below section had burned everything and how get a lot of roads and stuff in there and get only one water unit down there – you know – Puuanahulu. How about – I don’t know if can – but put in one maybe big tank by the highway running Drisdol down so you get – like they do in Puuwaawaa. Maybe that going help. KS. It’s something we have discussed internally – something similar to that – the question about animals being sick – we’ve been getting those reports as well so that’s also something we’ve been trying to see if we can put out some sort of medication at the water units for them – that’s something that we’re planning on doing soon – we haven’t done it yet. I do anticipate probably before the end of the year getting something out there for them – I don’t know if it’s going to help but we’re hopeful that it will. TN: You have the funding capabilities... KS: I think so. It depends on – again it depends on the funding source that we use and what kind of compliance we need to have. ?: Because it burned – everything there is gone – so I mean – it’s not like... 6 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 NP: Right, it’s very green now... Right. KS: No, but I’ mean, what you’re asking about – an extra water unit is not unreasonable and it’s something that we have discussed – so... TL: I want to get back to carrying capacity with you for a moment... Number one you jumped the gun on your answer when I asked you what the carrying capacity is – that’s a number – it’s out there – there’s an impact capacity – you know, what level of animals can live in an area – you can call that carrying capacity if you want. What level of animals are you comfortable with in that area – do you know any of those numbers? KS: Do I know how many animals I’m comfortable with in the area? Well... One second I’m just gonna look up an email I just got. OK. So this is from – I said we put cameras in the area in 2017 and 2018 trying to estimate the number of animals – basically I won’t go into all the details but the first time we did it – the estimate was high – between 12 and 1600 animals. Kinda, I think it was on the higher end of that and I told the researchers at the time – I thought that was high – and this was only for those of you who know the area – this is only for Puuanahulu and Puuwaawaa mauka of the road. It’s probably about 60,000 acres total. TL: Fifty thousand in the upper area? KS: About 60,000. Six zero – sixty thousand. So, but that’s the two areas combined. I told them I thought it was high. They went back and they ran the numbers a little differently because what they realized was they were counting sheep that were further than – we picked a landmark in the picture that was supposed between 30 and 50 meters from the camera and that way you could kinda get an idea of the area that is being captured by the camera and then the animals that are in front of that landmark – you could get a density based on the area but they were picking animals or counting animals that were past the landmark which is why they had a h8igher density. So they re-ran the numbers to include only the animals in front of the landmark l- if that makes sense – so the new numbers for 2017 was 850 confidence interval lower end 715 higher in 984. This year we did it again... TN: I’m sorry - this is Teresa - that’s sheep or goats? KS: These are only sheep. So mauka they’re mostly sheep – there are a few goats but not many and we did not have enough observations in the cameras to get an estimate of goats for mauka. So I anticipate... ?: So you counting Puuanahulu too, mauka? 7 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 KS: Puuanahulu and Puuwaawaa mauka. I would anticipate as we go makai of the road it’s probably gonna be switched, right, we’re only see mostly goats – very few sheep – probably won’t be able to get a number of sheep below the road. In 2018 the estimate was 748 with a confidence interval – lower end 591, higher end 906. So we’re kinda still in the same range. So right now, mauka, for sheep – I don’t know – between 600 and 900 animals. TL: Are you comfortable with that number. KS: I think it’s low. I would like to increase that. TL: OK. That’s what we’re looking for... What is the baseline – like you have one in 31 acres – one animal in 50 acres the way it is right now – you’d be looking for one animal in approximately how many acres would you say? Twenty... KS: Maybe something like that – 15, 20. TL: Very good, thank you. That was the question I was asking, actually. ?: We know what had happened to the herd that was mauka of the highway of goats on the Waimea side road? KS: Do we know what happened to them? There’s some goats that hang out in there. ?: This past year didn’t have anything in there. Used to have one herd of 60, maybe... KS: I don’t know what happened to ‘em. Yeah, I know we still were getting some sign in there but not – we didn’t qualify it. ?: Because the year prior when the season finished we saw certain goats that, eh. That goats going be nice, you know, and... KS: They weren’t there the next year... KU: This is Kean – Kanalu thank you for your information. My question for you is I know you said – you do archery, black powder – but would you support a high power rifle? 8 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 KS: I would. But I don’t think we have the population to support it yet. But that is my goal. TL: The habitat in the mauka side by many accounts – and I’m not that familiar – I haven’t been up there in years – but by many accounts the habitat on the upper side is much better than the lower. What would it take to bring the lower section into a better habitat regime so to speak that would support more animals? KS: More water. TL: Water in rain or water in tanks? KS: Rain – I mean, I can’t go water the whole place with watering tanks. Rain. TL: How beneficial are water tanks? KS: I don’t know. That’s another project we’re looking to. When we start talking about habitat modifications we’re getting into the same issues with compliance to Endangered Species Act. So, I mean, is it possible? Sure but is it likely? I’m just saying we get into the same compliance road blocks and issues so is it possible, sure, is it likely, not without a plan which is what the HCP is supposed to be. TN: Isn’t there a plan mauka side of Puuwaawaa for reforestation cause when I was up there several years ago we visited the seeding area next to the cabin and the project of reseeding the area to become a forest once again was happening at the time so has that been expanded cause they asked for 600 more acres – I’m not sure where that project is today. I’ve seen no reports but... How is the existing plans and is there future plans for your reforestation project? KS: In 2005 there was a Puuwaawaa Advisory Council that drafted a management plan for Puuwaawaa and Puuanahulu kind of together and they got that plan passed by the Board of Land of Natural Resources – it was passed in concept because it needed an environmental assessment to support it. The HCP that we talk about was kinda meant to bring that compliance to make that plan at Puuwaawaa kinda make it into reality, I guess, and so then that was 2005 and that was a ten year plan and here we are in 2018 without an HCP still – so there is a drafted plan that managers including myself and DOFAW are basing our management off of – but it’s not something that has been finalized and passed by our board. 9 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 TN: So the planting that was happening back then is no longer happening now? KS: No. They’re still fencing being put in – there’s still reforestation projects happening but it’s all based on a draft plan – not a completed habitat conservation plan. TN: So the area that was reforested way back when – what’s the results today – has it – has the trees grown – is your seeding area...It’s where the cabin is KS: Is it the – we have a couple of cabins up there... Is it \[unclear\] sanctuary? TN: Right next to the cabin was the seeding area – below that was the reforestation project. KS: So it’s probably the forest bird sanctuary cabin and below that we have a project where they put in a fence and reforested. KS: There – Elliott Parsons is the manager in the area would know more about numbers specifically on that but visually the area is recovering. There are koa and other native plants that are coming back but I couldn’t – I don’t know numbers – I couldn’t give you numbers – I can just tell you from what I see. TN: Is there a report we can see as to the outcome... KS: Elliot probably would have that. I can go back and write notes on my phone... TN: Would you please. I’d be interested. KS: I’ll go ask Elliot about that. TN: What’s the result of the ungulates not being there? KS: And below the cabin, right? They did remove animals from that... TN: Yeah... KS: ....I think they just had ingress last year with one or two pigs and they got ‘em out but, ah, like I said – I can tell you visually – when I can find out any reports and stuff from Elliot I’ll get back to you guys on that. TN: Nice. Thanks Kanalu... NP: So there were really bad fires – was it a couple of months ago? 10 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 KS: Um-hum. NP: Did that change the location of the herds? KS: I don’t know. Likely, I mean – I did see animals kind of move out of the area but then back in but we haven’t – we didn’t go out and specifically monitor for that so I don’t know... NP: So it didn’t harm their population. KS: I mean if you go back and look there’s a whole bunch of new growth and that’s probably good for the animals... NP: Right now, yeah, it looks beautiful. KS: It would have displaced them for a while – probably did have an effect – I don’t know thought, I didn’t go out and qualify – we didn’t go out and survey specifically for that. TL: I have one – back to your original – or not original comment you made earlier about working ongoing with fencing and some of these other things – which are part of the plan – why is it also some of the game things that you were planning on doing not being implemented now as well? KS: Sorry. I don’t know how to answer this question - because it wouldn’t be in compliance with the laws – that’s basically why and so the idea behind the plan was supposed to get us in compliance with the State and the Federal Endangered Species Act but because the plan is not finalized – any actions I do to improve or enhance game is not compliant – is against the law. So that’s the basic answer. TL: But your plans are presumably compliant, right? KS: But they’re not finalized so they’re not – they haven’t been passed by the Board of Land and Natural Resources so it’s a plan in draft that’s not – it means nothing until it’s approved by the Board. TN: Has the plan been submitted to the Board? KS: Yeah, no, we were told it was completed in 2015. TN: If it was completed in 2015... KS: I would have to go back and look at minutes – I don’t think that’s true. 11 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 TL: We said it’s completed because, like I said, there’s a process and it has to go to the Board. We came in and we had public review for it. We had general support for the plan from the public, I mean, probably 80% support – and so for us to get the plan fully approved we need to take it the next step is to take it through the Endangered Species Recovery Committee that advises the Board of Land and Natural Resources and so we’ve taken it to them but they have not approved it yet – so that’s kinda where our hang up is. How long have they had it? KS: About two or three years. That’s not the only place that it’s hung up. So, but it is hung up. I hope to have a better answer for you folks on that specifically in the next month or so – but I can’t promise anything. These are all things way above me. TN: So what if we don’t use federal money – just money from... KS: So even if we use State monies we have to follow the State Endangered Species Act, which basically mirrors the federal. NP: It’s just frustrating for us because and I know it’s not your fault – but the DLNR’s mandated to protect endangered species but they’re also mandated to promote public hunting and game resources so who enforces that mandate is the problem so that’s the frustrating thing for us and you know that’s – you’re in the rock and the hard place, of course, yeah... KS: Just give it to me – I’ll take it... NP: That’s not under your control – but that’s our frustration. Who is carrying out the mandate to promote our game resources? Why are we always pushed around by the other mandate so that’s the problem and that’s not your fault. Anyway, so, from what you say – one of the other questions was food plots we cannot – no can – for Puuwaawaa and Puuanahulu to attract more game that way. KS: It’s all compliance so... NP: But that would promote public hunting and game resources which the DLNR is mandated to do so... KS: Yes, those things are written in that habitat conservation plan... Which like I said means nothing until it’s approved, and so... TL: So essentially what you’re saying is that if the Board doesn’t take it up it will never happen. 12 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 KS: Yup. NP: OK – so should we move on? So the last time we talked to you there was more fencing going in and some fencing was still yet to be completed to protect endangered species so the game were all being chased out, hunted out, eradicated – the fences enclosed – and so it seemed to us that those areas getting fenced were actually prime habitat for the game and so you were doing rump-fat tests and blood tests and fertility tests – and so have you don’t any since the animals have been further fenced out of their prime habitat? KS: So the fences that you’re talking about are not closed yet – so the animals are still in there – we haven’t finished – the fence is not finished and we haven’t done any actions to remove animals from there and so we’re not there where you kinda thought – I guess you’re thinking we are in terms of removing animals... TN: What area are you talking about up Puuwaawaa or Puuanahulu? Makai? Mauka? KS: I’m assuming you’re talking about the area near – Puuwaawaa mauka in there – it’s Henahena – there’s another fencing they’re putting in called Aiea – it’s all kind of below the Poohoohoo Reservoir. NP: Right, you’d given us... TN: So this is the below area above the highway. KS: It’s above the highway – it’s above the hill kind of Kona side but it’s – it kinda – it basically is an extension of the forest bird sanctuary makai – so you’re going from the forest bird sanctuary... TN: How many acres? KS: Ah, the Henahena I think was 800 acres – Aiea I don’t remember – a couple hundred. TN: And the endangered species they’re protecting there are? KS: There’s fifteen plant species some – ‘aiea is one of ‘em – there’s a bunch of others – I don’t know them all off the top of my head. TN: Wiliwili? KS: Wiliwili is not an endangered species? 13 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 TN: The lama? KS: Lama is not endangered? TN: Uhiuhi? KS: Uhiuhi is. TN: Kauila? KS: But I think uhiuhi is more makai of the road. Kauila, yes... TN: Kokiae? KS: I don’t know all of them, I’m sorry. I think – that sounds familiar. But, yeah, I’m not the best plant guy. TN: Do you have a list of your website? KS: We do... We have a list on the HCP, we have – yes – I can get you a list... TN: Yeah. And these are fifteen species of endangered plants... KS: Fifteen plants and one moss... TN: And they’re on the endangered species list... KS: Yes, that are listed. TN: And does the Forestry Division have all these plants? KS: What do you mean, I’m sorry... TN: Forestry Division... Where do you get your seeds? KS: Yes we do propagate in our greenhouses and out plant them. TN: Do you work with the Forestry Division for these plants? KS: I am, yes, I work for the Forestry Division. 14 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 Sorry, I – to be clear I am a biologist for the Division of Forestry and Wildlife for the State for the DLNR. SM: So what is the portion on the Waimea side of the bird sanctuary? All that forest area there? KS: OK. SM: Is that going be fenced too? KS: No. That’s not in the plans to be fenced. Shangri La... That area. Yeah, it’s not in the plans to be fenced. SM: I thought that’s where they was going go next... KS: No. There is an area not extended from the forest bird sanctuary but kind of Waimea side with nicer forest – they do plan to fence a portion of it but not the whole forest and they haven’t identified exactly where but... And that section not open for hunting when you guys do open so get one reason? KS: I don’t understand exactly why the manager before me did not include that area... SM: No but we were hunting... KS: Any hunting up there before – in the recent past has been under a special permit. I think from what I’ve been told by others – was that he wanted to control the hunting in there and continue the special permit to hunt – which is kinda what we’ve done – but we haven’t done it – it’s been real limited – just not a typical ram’s, right, for the last three or four years and so I don’t really know why he didn’t include it as a seasoned ruled hunt. I think his intent was to manage the hunting in there using the special permit. SM: I think it’s a good idea cause this way you get lotta game in there and if, you know, but if they can trickle out... KS: It is our intent next year to open that area under that special permit for typical rams but we don’t have that plan written up yet. I hope to have that by kinda the end of the year. NP: Have there been any more tests on the health of the sheep and... KS: Sorry – we’ve taken samples – I don’t have any results but we have twice now – so the first time – but last year and then this year again we did take 15 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 rump fat and loin thickness measurements – we are continuing with our putting collars on – we put twenty collars last year and ten more this year – GPS collars – and so we’re monitoring survival with that – survival is still high for adults – it’s in the 90s – 90% annual survival for adults – which is good – and so the next step is to try to get an idea of recruitment. We have some numbers that are preliminary – I don’t feel comfortable sharing ‘em yet on fertility – and so, I mean, that’s kind of some of the numbers you need to know – births, deaths... NP: Right. KS: How many are coming in and how many are leaving – really simple. So we kinda have an idea on deaths. We kinda have an idea on births. But how many are then getting recruited back into the population we don’t really know so we’re – that’s kind of our next step to model sheep over there. TN: Are these all the animals that are in the area? KS: These are all new sheep – that’s all we’ve done – then, um, I do intend to transition over to goats maybe next year or the year after. But right now it’s just sheep. TL: Is there anything that any of the hunting organizations or groups could do to help you with any of that stuff? KS: With – I don’t know – I haven’t thought about – that’s a good question – I can take some time to think about how hunters could help us with that – maybe something with animals harvested, um, bringing out samples or something like. It’s not something I’ve thought about and if I’m open to ideas so if you guys have thoughts or whatever – I’m open. Just kinda write that down. TL: Well, Stanley and I have been talking about coming to have a conversation with you anyway. Would you be open to that some time in the next couple of weeks or so? TL: Maybe a couple weeks further after that. KS: Let me know – it’s pretty stupid how busy I’m getting – but just let me know. TL: And I’ll have your name spelled right by then, too. JO: He’s still working on mine. NP: As you know there’s been a lot of complaint about game bird... Is there any explanation why their population seems low? 16 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 KS: This is something I probably could have answered better with a little bit more time... I apologize – by guy’s that in charge of the data called in sick and I was off- island today so I couldn’t go look for it myself. I don’t – the short answer is I don’t know why the population would seem low. This year based on the numbers from the beginning of hunting season – it seems like the population or at least the harvest rate is actually pretty good. On Mauna Kea on the first weekend we had – well, the first day Kilohana had 120 hunters signed in with 170 birds harvested. The second day was 48 hunters with 47 birds harvested. Puuhuluhulu was on the first day 47hunters with 51 birds harvested and the second day was 23 hunters with 17 birds harvested. I mean if you want exact numbers –when I ran it I think that was like up 1.4 birds for a hunter for the opening weekend and opening weekend is probably going to be the most success so I can’t say – so I wanted to look at the opening weekend, you know, the last three or four years and see how it compared. I do know the last three or so years for the whole season it’s been about .9 birds per hunter and so I don’t know if I can really compare opening weekend to the whole season but based on opening weekend numbers I would say that the population this year is much better than it’s been the last three years. My first year here is was a really good year – I think it was about a bird and half for the whole season per hunter trip. Short answer – like I said I don’t know. I also – some of the other questions you guys had in there were questions about animals – birds moving to grazing lands and stuff like that – just from discussions with friends that I know that are members of Parker Ranch hunting – the Parker Ranch Bird Hunting Club – the numbers of the past three years over there have been low as well. And they release birds on their lands and so I don’t have exact numbers on harvest rates for them – it’s not something they have to share with me but just anecdotally – it’s been low the last couple of years – kinda across the board – I don’t know why – this year’s based on the first two weekends it seems like it’s gonna be a pretty good year. TL: I have a graph table that goes back to the 80s that if you haven’t seen it I’d be happy to share with you. I think it came from Shaya actually. KS: Yeah, I’m sure I have it. So, I don’t know, I also think that this year the bird population is probably is much better than the last couple of years but I can’t say yet until the end of the season. NP: That’s the first I heard that. Does anyone know anything about that? KS: So, talking to hunters personally half of the hunters say it’s gonna be an awesome year and half of the hunters say it’s gonna be a bad year – so I don’t know. 17 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 NP: I guess part of the problem is the tall grass, right? KS: If you want to base your hunting based on the tall grass than it’s gonna be a bad year cause the grass is very, very tall – yes. But if you base it on numbers of birds – I mean dogs are gonna get bust up cause they got to work much harder in the tall grass – you know, the hunters are gonna get bust up. I agree with that – I don’t know how much we can remedy that, I’m going to – you know, we’re trying, but as far as the number of birds I don’t think it’s gonna be that bad of year personally. I can come back at the end of bird season, I guess, and let you guys know how it went. NP: As biologist do you think the tall grass affects the bird populations? KS: I think it does. I haven’t read anything that says it does but I don’t know if anybody’s done that kind of research, but, yeah, because when we – so we did surveys – you guys saw the – I mean some of you probably saw the press release that the division put out – most of the birds that we flushed were in the shorter grass so, yeah, I think it does but I cannot, haven’t done surveys... NP: Do you think their populations gravitate toward private ranch land because it’s grazed? KS: Like I said – based on just discussions with friends that hunt Parker Ranch their numbers have been lower than normal in the last couple of years as well – I know they’re not the only ranch that borders State land or that has hunting but they’re the largest and they’re the only ones that I talk to people that hunt there so – and it’s hard though – like I said they release birds so they probably should have higher numbers but even releasing birds their hunting hasn’t been as good as they were hoping... TL: Even released birds – doesn’t the habitat have to be acceptable for them as well. KS: From what I’ve been told just talking to people who do release birds – generally, released birds don’t make it to the next year – it’s basically a put and take. Right – you’re putting birds out there for you to shoot that year – whether the habitat was good or not – it’s just what I’ve been told. WK: Hi. My name is Wallace Kauhakone. Me and my partner over there we bird hunt every weekend so far and the mountain is overgrown. We not could walk cause things are so thick, yeah, and it’s difficult to walk. We look on the paper, you know, just look through he papers after we came out, you know, after the weekend and stuff like that and one turkey brah. One turkey the whole day. Before had plenty turkey up there – we don’t see nothing already, 18 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 brah. Kaohe is over grown. I just like to say that, you know what I mean. I been bird hunting over 20 years – was easier before for hunt up there – the walking was easier – I understand, you know, but I tell you I just couldn’t say – no more the grazing animals up there already. The mountain is over grown. Me and him couldn’t even walk inside – we had to turn around. It’s not the kind like you guys can push ‘em on the side – this is thick, thick underbrush. I sorry – I feel little bit nervous I talking to everybody but we hunt bird every single year and the population for certain birds – plenty urkel but the quail, the chucker, the turkey – the population for some reason went down. Even when I look at the paper afterwards and \[unclear\] eh, brah. Only get one turkey – that’s real rare – but the mountain is overgrown badly. TN: Wallace, this is Teresa. WK: Yes. TN: When you bird hunting is Kaohe the only place you go to? WK: Sometimes we make our adventures right – we used to go from one side of the mountain we’d go right around the whole mountain – we’d the hunt the whole – we’d take the family – whatever... TN: Mauna Kea? WK: Mauna Kea – from Kanakaleanue side Kahinahina side we’d go around the mountain. I no do that anymore because no more bird. It’s what a waste gas, yeah, go around and then my wife say like you only wasting gas – you only come down with one bird the whole day. Before we used to catch one good supply, you know, for eat – whatever. And now I catch only one quail – I got to bring ‘em home gotta cook ‘em and there’s only one quail – you know. TN: And so what’s your reasoning – since you’ve been a hunter for twenty years – what’s your reasoning behind? WK: I’m sorry, excuse me. I’ve been hunting since I was one small – my father guys was hunters. My father used to hunt up there when we used to have to tag the sheep with the gold tags before – I mean, I used to see that mountain \[unclear\] with sheep up there before – which was bad. No conservation at that time – and no disrespect to the DOFAW or State – back then never had that type conservation where we needed for control the sheep – but the mountain was OK – I think, if I not mistaken, the decline of the palila bird is worse – when had sheep and compared to now back in ’87 – I watched that. I watched with a broken heart how they kill the sheep up there. I watched that. You know, some of the guys supposed to come they couldn’t make ‘em – a lot of them is hunting their whole life – their family’s hunters their whole life – I watched how they kill a sheep it’s... 19 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 TN: How you feel inside as to why you feel the bird population is not there and the various chuckers and quail – they’re not there anymore. Habitat plays a big role in their repopulating themselves... WK: I feel after hunting for so many years and we walked – a little bit momona now – can’t walk too far but – what I see is that a lot of feeders that they’ve - traps that they’ve set for the cats – I stay at Mauna Kea State Cabins – I come out night time – I send the light – cats all over that place, so, decline of the birds – the cats get plenty – I can just come up and say that – cats get plenty problem – I see them up in the tree. I shoot ‘em the cats when I can – cause get rid of the feral cat, yeah? I don’t think so the mongoose too much but the feral cat – that thing can climb up, yeah. The taking out of the grazing animals – I understand that the bird – I like say – we all the hunters we like save these birds – we like save whatever can – I no like see the bird disappear too because, eh, I born and raised over here. But by taking out all the sheep from the mountain it’s getting bad now. Fire hazard one of ‘em. The underbrush is so thick that certain birds just getting hard time. The water feeders that the State put out sometime – we go up there hunt every weekend for the whole three months until the Martin Luther King weekend – no more water inside, you know, I climb inside, I dredge ‘em up with own shovel because no more water – the birds no even come to the feeders and the traps – they not set. Every weekend I walk past the same place – we walk, go look – the traps not set. TN: The traps are for the feral... WK: The cats KS: We don’t trap while in bird season. TN: Could you do yourself a favor when you go up there and you see the degradation of the area, you know, it’s not pono... Could you take videos? And documents these things because we need facts and we cannot just wala’au over here and kukakuka like that... From what it was before and how you feel is important to us. WK: Oh, it’s different, I mean, I can honestly say I been one small boy hunt with my father up – yeah, before days was bust up – the sheep had too much. But I believe in control – not eradication. This is one slaughter now going on up there because – this is how I feel – the mountain – you took – they take the grazing animals out of here – just like you’re taking the sharks out of the 20 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 water – you going mess up the eco-system, yeah, so you take the grazing animals out – I mean, I believe the mandate for the federals or whatever, you know, you gotta do ‘em or they going suing the State or whatever they going do but somebody’s got to talk to these guys up there – let ‘em know that this is one slaughter. TN: But that’s not management – if it’s a slaughter it’s not management. WK: Yeah, it’s not, you know, cause from what – all that studies heard – there’s the Hofflinger study that he did on these birds up there – that the sheep can co-exist with these birds and the decline since ’87 is worse now than was in ’87 when had sheep. So I don’t understand what’s going on. Who gonna listen? I broken hearted watch this mountain go down \[unclear\] for my father, my grandfather guys hunt up there and I watch... TN: Just, please, Wallace, if you could do us a favor when you go hunting every weekend for the birds – video tape your guys self just like Ryan Kohatsu had done. You know he helped us a lot by videotaping what he does up on the Mauna. And if you could get Kaohe area and the tall grass and all of that thick brush, you know, we have to show them what is management. You know, they not born and raised here these people. WK: Right. TN: Who come here and work and they want to bring conservations here. They don’t have a full understanding of what you understand. What my uncle folks have understand what hunting was like and we, you know, there was enough to feed the whole camp. WK: No more and you know was – I not rich like everybody – we not – me and my partner guys we’re not rich – at the end of the month when no more too much money or whatever – the smoke meat whatever was always ready – my father guys always had that – my family had that – I go up Mauna Kea now and it’s a sad thing because I can drive around the whole mountain and see nothing – sometimes not even birds – you know what I mean – I look up there and I tell myself, wow, my kids – what they going – my kids – I planning to teach them how for hunt how to do that – where I going take ‘em. Where I going take them to hunt? Especially rifle areas. Archery areas too, now, what happened to kipuka? People could go – one archery area – one nother archery area gone from us. Rifle areas – where we going go? No sense go Mauna Kea – no more nothing – you know what I mean. I don’t mean for bring this all down on everybody... 21 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 It’s a sad thing. It hurt – my heart cry for and I watch this happening three decades and more. I was there in the 80s when they flying and they kill all the sheep by the thousands. You know what I mean? And, you know, I watched that and I know in my heart now I see ‘em I don’t even know what for do – but I figure I better come out and at least speak for the sheep. You know what I mean – speak for that because they’re dying up there by the – what was forty this last one – forty is too much already – we no more nothing up there and I going see one family tradition for a lot of the hunters – they no come out – they feel like it’s too late already – not for me – it’s not too late. TN: This is Teresa – my love is na mea Hawaii – things that are Hawaiian. I love my Hawaiian trees. When the trees grow a certain height the animals no bother – it’s when they small and they keiki. They get eaten up. Once they’re big and grown they no bother. You know, the animals don’t bother the big trees. The wiliwili grows – the kauila grows – and the only thing that hurts these trees are disease, fire, and lack of water. Those are the things – the animals do not hurt these trees. WK: Exactly, yeah... TN: Fencing does not protect all the endangered species. In fact, there’s more alien species that grow instead of the endangered species – cause they grow slow. Alien species grow faster – so there’s not – they cannot control – human being cannot control endangered species... NP: We have Dave Smith here as a guest. The last time he was here he promised us that the game bird – that was gonna be one of their big push – to promote the game bird – he promised us that and so I was wondering if you heard through the grapevine or whatever if there’s any plan for the tall grasses? NP: How can you promote game bird when the grass is a big problem... KS: Is there a plan? No, I mean, I did ask my – we just had a staff meeting – just internal – with our West Hawaii wildlife staff last week and I asked them to be up there at least one day a week mowing and mowing is not a long term solution – it’s something that we can do and they will be doing so, I mean, that’s the best I can do for right now – but as far as long term stuff I don’t know what else to do. NP: Yeah, well you didn’t promise this – Dave Smith promised it. KS: Well, I don’t know exactly what Dave promised... NP: Yeah, he said he was gonna promote the game bird. 22 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 KS: But I know part of his – I’m just saying the bird surveys that we did couple weeks ago or a month ago or whatever it was – that came from admin and so I don’t know if that’s the only thing he has planned but I do know it’s something that he supported and something that we... TL: Speaking of which and I don’t know if it was Allen or Brian Ley that I talked to but they came across some pig traps that had two pigs in it.. Who checks those traps? KS: I know some of the traps – so all of the traps have a – I’m pretty sure all of the traps have an automatic – the gate automatically closes if you send like a test message to tell the gate to close and so they have cameras on them that will take pictures and send a text message but who checks the traps is the Mauna Kea Forest Restoration Program – the workers in that program check the trap. TL: The Mauna Kea Reforestation... KS: Mauna Kea Forest Restoration Program - MKFRP. They’re the ones that check the traps. TL: Well, they also found some bones of animals that had expired over there. KS: Yeah, so what they do is when they go and check the trap and they kill the animals and they leave them in there as bait for the next animals that come – that’s their strategy for – that’s not the only way that they bait – but if they do catch something then they’ll kill the animals and leave it in there for bait for the next pigs. I was a little late on that one – cause I also saw maybe four traps that had pig’s in ‘em and I actually offered them to our hunters that were assisting with us – but like I said, I was a little late – I texted the manager and I said, eh, is it OK if we go up there and get those pigs – he’s like, brah, you should have told me earlier cause I just – they day we were there later in the afternoon his guy went up and killed them so we missed out. It’s not like a long term whatever it is – it’s just something I wanted to try to do for the guys that were helping us out and like I said I went and contacted them a little too late. TN: Back in October you folks had a counting project – what was the outcome of the counting project? KS: We don’t know yet. So, we walked – so the idea behind it was to compare certain methods between just walking a transect without a dog and then walking transects with dogs. So we were comparing between two different survey methods – so we doubled up on surveys for 56 kilometers so 56 transcets – one kilometer transects that we walked both with and without 23 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 dogs. We did it across – it was like six days – we had, I think, seven hunter volunteers that helped us with dogs but as far as numbers for – we’re preliminary on that – our researcher is still gathering or inputting the data and I haven’t even given him all of the data yet – I think I need a – I have like three more transects that I need to give him from myself and I have all the GPS data I still need to send him so we don’t have the numbers yet. TN: And then – are you gonna continue this transect team in February to March of next year, from Mauna Kea? KS: This project is coming from Admin, I mean, I support it – II don’t - I’m just saying they’re kind of the ones running the show but that is, yes, February, March is when we’re gonna go back up and... TN: Maybe you can include Wally guys on that – helping you out because they’re familiar with the area. KS: Oh, absolutely. TN: Wally? KS: You guys want to come help us out... KU: This is Kean –any correlation between the game bird and the habitat that grow with the palila bird – has it been better? Worse – since all this has started? KS: So have palila numbers increased as a correlation with the habitat and the grass growing longer? I don’t know numbers exactly but from the meetings that I’ve been in – and I’m sure you guys have had experts come and testify with you guys – the outlook for palila is not good and it continues to decrease. I don’t know how correlated that is with long grass or not but that’s what’s happening. TN: Whose doing the protection of the palila bird – is it your department – another department, another organization? KS: The Mauna Kea Forest Restoration Program is a project that’s under DOFAW – they’re – through the University – but that’s the project that is – that’s their main objective – is to improve habitat... TN: To increase... KS: ....increase, improve habitat – monitor – they run – they organize the annual palila surveys every year in February so that’s – they are – they’re under us but they’re the – kinda the program that’s in charge of that. 24 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 TN: And do they know why there is the decrease of the palila bird in spite of their efforts there is still a decrease? KS: I haven’t – do they know why – I haven’t seen anything with an exact why – these things take time, though, and so, I don’t know why. JO: Jim O’Keefe... Who is the program director MTFRP? KS: Name is Chauncey Kala Lindsey Ah Sing. He goes by Kala. NP: I’ve read a few reports of an analysis of stomach content of sheep and goats and it seems their primary diet is grass and so the fenced areas – all the eradication – removal of all the game animals – lotta grass – so and I know I asked you this question before but in the long term I’m just wondering what kind of results you’re seeing with your methods of dealing with the grass – keeping it from growing over the native endangered species and, I guess, it’s herbicide and so it’s gonna be a herbicide control? KS: We don’t really manage the grass – that’s why the grass is as long as it is – we do a little bit of mowing. We – any herbicide that like Kala guys use on their project would be around areas that they’ve out planted so that project – the Mauna Kea Forest Restoration Project – they have two mitigation areas right? They have the old Lau lease and then they have Puu Mali – which are areas that they are doing restoration efforts, right, so they’re out planting and trying to restore the forest in those areas. They do use around their out plantings some herbicides to keep grasses down around the plants that they put in the ground... NP: Right. That’s what I’m talking about... KS: Yeah, but anything like large scale to control grasses on a larger scale than just around the individual plants we don’t do... NP: In the fenced areas. OK... KS: It’s anything really that’s herbicide stuff is for the out plantings it’s not the – like I said – it’s not a larger scale trying to get rid of grasses. It’s just on whatever actions they’re doing to try to restore the forest. NP: Which you gotta keep doing it cause, right, so, so, it’s just around all the native plants you do Roundup and so like how are those native plants looking? Is the Roundup helping them? 25 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 NP: Whether that’s gonna be the answer for saving them, which is sort of the contradiction cause it’s so non-native – man-like... S: So this Stanley. So this place that you guys go mow is just the roads, right, cause you guys cannot get into the – I mean, is it... KS: Most of what we mow is the roads.... We’ve done some outside of the roads – not recently, though, and so... S: It’s Lau pasture, yeah? KS: I ask my guys to try to find areas where they can at least cut strips to help the hunters walk a little bit better and so in the next couple of weeks we should have somebody up there – like I said – at least once a week, um, I mean, it’s kinda the most I can commit my guys to. S: But that just going be Lau pasture, I mean, no place else, yeah? KS: There’s plenty of places to be cut in Lau pasture and I have only one machine – there may be access to others through, you know, work requests and things like that but it’s not the – it’s not something I would like tantaran – that’s the best thing for do – it’s just – it’s the only thing I can do for right now. S: What happened to the – when I was there – they was gonna bull doze wind rows in between, you know all in ‘Aumoa and everything with the bull dozer and then, you know, make strips so that you could mow those strips – what happened to that plan? I mean, this was in 90s so... JM: Joey Mello – East Hawaii Wildlife Manager – sorry, kinda looked at me for help but there is really no answer except compliance issues. As you recall, Stanley, back in the day we used to make an attempt to do some crop plantings and stuff like that and even a lot of that is very limited because of the compliance issues – both with the Fed – is the first thing, because we use federal money but like Kanalu said when we back off and say, hey, we’re only gonna use State money – wherever that might come from – because it’s easy to say that but we don’t know where the money would come from and the second problem is that the State has a very similar endangered species law. S: If they going with their thing with the game birds – that enhance game birds – that was the reason they were gonna bull doze ‘Aumoa, you know, in between and make wind rows and you mow in between the wind rows for the game birds but that never did come into play, I mean, this is... 26 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 JM: Well, we started a little bit of it back then, yeah, you were one of the guys up there – now – probably, like Kanalu said – mowing is – I mean, there are some areas that we can mow and there’s some of those old wind rows that they did way up mauka in the Area G – that we might be able to get back into and mow if it’s not too rough but, you know, it remains to be seen – got to have the man power and they time to get up there and see ‘em. For the record, while we’re on it – those game bird surveys – while we haven’t – we don’t know the full results yet but we did similar game bird surveys just before that in Kapapala and we’re trying to make the same kinds of comparisons and see how Mauna Kea and Kapapala are similar – how they’re different – and then continue in subsequent years and that’s when we’re gonna have results – right? The first year is really not gonna tell us anything – it just gives us a baseline – in fact it’ll take a couple of years to really get a baseline and several more years to follow up. We’re also doing – while on the subject – we’re doing some land clearing, ah, not clearing but mowing – mowing with a big mulcher in Kapapala to try to – the same thing – primarily right now it’s so that hunters can get in and get to where what birds are out there are and then hopefully down the line that helps the birds as well and helps the bird population. S: I heard today from somebody that the Kapapala – the birds is coming out. They getting success there. JM: Yeah. I would have to mimic what Kanalu said – my initial feeling is that this is probably going to be a little better of a year – if not – probably not substantially better but a little better than the last three years cause it follows similar patterns to Mauna Kea. Kapapala has always had lower numbers but the dedicated guys that go out there still like going out there and so the numbers are generally parallel just like one notch below what Mauna and Kaohe is like. S: Thank you... TN: Do you folks have fire break plans in your plans cause you can do fire breaks, right? KS: Yes. TN: So wouldn’t that be part of your plan to put in fire breaks in these areas so lessened the damage of a fire? KS: We don’t really have plans to add fire breaks – we have fire breaks already and so the plans are to maintain what’s already there. TN: Do you have plans to just install more fire breaks in sections? 27 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 Not the fire breaks are just alongside the highway – that’s all I see. Not unless they’re further up in the area... KS: There’s other fire breaks in the areas – as far as plans for fire break and fire breaks maintenance – I don’t want to throw this kind of under the bus but we have a Protection Forrester and that’s kinda one of the primary responsibilities is to plan for fire mitigation in the forest and so he should know more about that than I do. Like I said, we have fire breaks – not all of the fire breaks are just along the highway. We do maintain those fire breaks in Puuanahulu and Puuwaawaa we maintain them very well. On Mauna Kea we’re working on it... TN: You’re working on the ones on Mauna Kea – so they will see more fire breaks around Mauna Kea because of the tall grasses... KS: Just maintaining the ones that are there. TN: So on Mauna Kea there are fire breaks up at Mauna Kea? KS: Yes... TN: And so maintaining – so there’s no plans for future fire breaks? KS: Not that I know of – we can ask the Protection Forester but I doubt it – I don’t think we’re adding more – I think we’re just maintaining what’s there... NP: Was Stanley’s question – was about when the ewes and nannies are producing their young – rearing their young... ii. Bills Concerning DOFAW ability to set or change Seasons with Consensus and Approval of State GMAC KS: The question was about changing – maybe changing the hunting seasons away from when the reproductive, you know, when animals are having their young – any changes in seasons would require a rules change – and I’m open to anything – the animals, I’ve noticed kind of, I mean, we live in Hawaii where there’s not a seasonal differences like there is on the mainland – and so animals here give birth year round. I do see kind of two main times of the year when they are giving birth, though, kind of a spring and fall – and so anything to work around that would have to be a rules change, which like I said I’m open to listening to any suggestions. NP: Can you request a rule change? Would you have weight to request a rule change...? KS: We are in the process of reviewing our rules right now... 28 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 The last rules change took seven years – we’re just starting the next one. They keep telling me that it’s gonna be faster than 7 years and I wasn’t here for the last one... TL: We do have some suggestions that we chipped in on those – up Kapapala – you and I had talked about the 4,000 acres in Kapapala at one time – that was the lease that was coming due in Kapapala... KS: Four thousand acres. TL: I think it was 4,000... KS: There’s 23,000 acres that’s under general lease – and approximately 7,000 acres under revocable permit so refresh me... TL: It was not – I don’t think it was part of Kapapala – I think it was lease that was coming due and I thought it could be 7,000 – but I thought it was four. JM: Yeah, well, there’s the old Roger James piece across the highway, which is mostly flat lava and we determined that that’s probably not a productive area that we would take into forest reserve and the land agency would turn it over but it wouldn’t be very productive, but, Kapapala Ranch – there is – are discussions going on right now and once we kinda determine what direction we’re going with the lease we want to get the – at least the commission involved in helping us to determine what the – if we create any kind of hunting there – what kind of hunting seasons and what are we gonna do... KS: Thanks. I will get back to you so I’m just kinda, real quick, the couple things I have noted so if I miss anything let me know. So I got email about Kiholo – so I’ll get you guys emails to include everybody in that – ask Elliot about reforestation results below the forest bird sanctuary cabin and then hunters kinda start brainstorming ways that we can get hunters to assist us with the health – kind of monitoring the health of our game mammal populations. Am I missing anything? TN: Two weeks before bird hunting season – I’m sorry – this is Teresa – two weeks before bird hunting season opened on Mauna Kea you folks did an aerial view. Why was that project done? Was it to count the birds or count the sheep population? KS: I don’t know what you’re talking about. We did have an aerial eradication two weeks before and so if that’s what you’re talking about... TN: Oh, it was an eradication... 29 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 KS: That was an aerial eradication a couple week before bird season, yes... TN: Would that be contentious about the birds not being around because you folks were there with the helicopters and eradicating all the whatever – what was it – sheep? Goats? KS: Sheep... TN: Sheep. You’re eradicating sheep two weeks before bird season... KS: It’s not something I thought about – whether the helicopters are messing up birds and bird hunting... TN: It sure messed me up when they fly over my house... 1. Bills Concerning Game Animals Clarified as being protected as a Natural Resource TL: You all received some emails of some bills that we submitted on behalf of the commission a couple of years ago – House Bill 104 and 105, which now are two different bills. One of them concerning the game animals being clarified as a natural resource – that mimics 104 and the question to you folks – and especially those who are on the Legislative Committee – do you want to take this bill up this year? TN: This is the first time I’ve ever seen your sheet about all the various committee. Shouldn’t we go through the committees first as to who’s on the committee? Everyone has a black and white copy of your committee that you’ve emailed to us. MH: Yeah, that’s later in the agenda. The committee assignments is later in the agenda – so... It’s under C. MH: I know but if you want to go over assignments that’s what – in the agenda – that’s what C is for under Old Business so... If you want to take it out of order – then you can make that request. NP: Page two... TG: My names’ Tyrone Gorey and I came here to potentially make a statement at the public comment portion and it got by us so fast and I see a member of our association here that was maybe looking for an opportunity to make a public comment and I think that you guys have gone on to an agenda – I didn’t understand your agenda so I’m hoping that we might not have missed our 30 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 opportunity – the president of our association has left cause he had some other things going but in order to, you know, go through this whole process of listening to your guys’ agenda I just don’t know if I missed this and maybe we should go ahead and leave at this point... TL: Do you have a statement or a comment you want to make on our agenda? TG: Yeah, I actually, I’m pretty new at this so I’m not maybe as prepared as I thought I would, um, but I also have another gentleman with the association who is the vice president and he, I believe, is also willing, wanting to make a comment potentially. Our concerns with is that I was asked to come here and make a mention and maybe make you guys aware of the current events that are going on in Pepeekeo concerning the Puuhonua Power Plant – there is some extreme concerns over the Pepeekeo Fishing Association and that there’s gonna be an issue with this extremely valuable resource because we’re trying to protect our fishermen and they identified traditional, cultural properties that are actually at this place and that none of these statements in the newspaper that Puuhonua has said there’s absolutely no traditional, cultural properties... TL: Let me stop you right there. That is not for tonight. But what I do want from you folks though is – before you leave this evening – please write down what – and your contact information so somebody can get back to you either tomorrow morning and get further information from yhou and put you on the agenda later on. G: Tom, this is George. I would like them to be able to testify under New Business because I feel like the Puuhonua Plant and its potential impacts does impact fishing and fisheries and I think that’s something that this commission should take up and should – this is under our purview... TL: Thank you. And I agree with him but I would like to get your contact information – and have somebody contact you and we can get you on the agenda. TG: Absolutely, we have found out that really there seems to be a form of deception with Puuhonua and the process and they have completely by- passed even your Commission’s ability to make comment on them and right now there is an extremely critical hearing tomorrow with the Department of Health and it would really have been nice if there was an opportunity where the commission had to maybe have an opportunity to express that you guys do have concerns and the main reason I’m here is because I actually do a lot of Indian prayer and have been working with the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission at NOAA Fisheries and the Department of Fish and Wildlife in 31 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 California and I have a lot of experience in this and I think there’s a lot of things that are being missed and I really would think it is actually the responsibility at the Gaming Commission because this is a true homeland and native fishing grounds and this power plant is on the most powerful arm of our mountain – Mauna Kea – that reaches right down to Pepeekeo Point – this is absolutely a traditional-cultural properties and I watched a man – after Puuhonua admitted they had a spill yesterday or Friday – go down there – fished for his family and jumped in the water to retrieve his fishing net – which is a natural fishing style – he was unsuccessful and then he dove in and he actually fished – he only took what he needed and he walked out of there and I warned him that there was potentially chemicals on him and it’s just really sad that the people there are fishing – in fact the winning fish at the Tokunaga Tournament actually came from clay banks is right at the same place – so please allow us to approach your commission at some point and at least maybe we would actually looking for maybe a recommendation that you guys have some concerns at least for the gaming situation and the population in that area. Thank you, sir... TL: No problem – we’d be happy to do that. Just leave us your contact information... TN: Yeah, I’ll share it with everybody... Cause it comes under my committee. NP: Right, this is true... GMC: I would just like to introduce myself. My name is Jaerick Medeiros Cursiao \[sp?\] and I am the Vice President of Pepeekeo Community Association and I’m also the chairman of the Pepeekeo Shoreline Fishing Committee – since I took over this kuleana I kept it close to my heart the fact that – I’m not doing this for myself – I don’t fish off those cliffs – but there’s a lot families in my community – in my fishing association – that needs this resource to put food on their table and the past year I worked really hard by myself to work with that gated community down there – they didn’t want the fishing association in their gate community but I made them a plan and I stuck to that plan and 7 months later there for this fishing association. The fact that I carried the squatters that was making them feel uncomfortable in their own home – there’s no squatters... I turned to DLNR to help me with the squatters – they told me that’s not their jurisdiction. OK. So I had to do it myself. I took care of that problem. After they left – this is like eight months now – they’re so happy – the people that’s in that community they love having the fishermen out in front of their homes now – the fact that I have all the information of these guys that is out there after 6:00p. I know exactly who’s there – so it’s being monitored. I’m present. What happened in eight months? The fish came back – the opihis came back – so what’s happening – how this business got this far I’m not sure – all I know is we – our community didn’t know anything when these guys were \[unclear\] permits to do stuff that is damaging our community 32 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 ground – I mean, before they even got there the ground was already contaminated. They’d never took care of that the right way. OK, the runoffs – yeah, I know, in the past might have been a little bit polluted the water but they never provided any environmental impact from the beginning of this business getting started. Now tomorrow is our hearing – what I’m asking for \[unclear\] you know, they going bring numbers – but what is that numbers compared to? They still didn’t do any environmental impact studies. Those numbers that they gonna put on the table is numbers that is made up because how can you say, oh, well, you know, we going be doing these emissions and you know – how do you know if it got worse since you’ve been here, you know, we would have wanted to know when these guys are applying for these permits – we weren’t told – we don’t - we’re the Association for Pepeekeo and nobody told us anything, you know, one year ago we invited Mr. Lee to my home – at our Board meeting – he introduced himself – he had a very touching story... TL: Can I get your phone number before you leave...? GMC: Sure. TL: And can I call you in the morning? GMC: Yeah. TL: I don’t mean to cut you off but – we need to kind of move on... GMC: You guys got an agenda... TL: But I’m interested in.... GMC: I hate to bother you guys but... TL: Have you talked to the Mayor at all about this? GMC: You know, it seems to me that these guys been flying under the radar this whole time – over a year now – and we’re at the point, well, like he said – even though we don’t meet this tax break date – we still moving forward and they got no research done of how much smoke’s gonna come out of that stacks and the people community – we saying – I got one flower farm – is that stack gonna kill my farm? I don’t know, the runoff from all these chemicals – thirty different chemicals they want to shoot it into an aquifer – that is crazy – you might contaminate the whole shoreline. And not to mention our State buoys that all our fish come – good poke we eating ‘em – bought the stores – you know, gonna be contaminated. 33 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 TL: I know, since, out in Puna – I grew up in Puna – there’s a million gallons worth of water coming through almost every hour out at Shipman out there – so there’s water coming all through those rocks and you’re right about if you inject stuff into the soil where is it going? So it’s a real concern and I want to address that with you. If you can give me your phone number before you go I’d like to call you in the morning, thank you... GMC: Thank you for your time everybody... TN: There’s no EIS study they did? GMC: There’s no study... G: No, there isn’t one... MH: Sir, if you’re gonna continue to talk we just need you to speak in the mic so we can have you on record, that’s all... GMC: So, tomorrow they finally contacted if I want to help probably earlier – well ended up last week and, um, they’ll be out there tomorrow cause they want to do some kind of testing while we’re all at the hearing and so the Department of Health is gonna monitor something – this one thing - for them tomorrow – don’t know what it is – but, ah, they would come up with all these numbers – it doesn’t matter what they got cause they didn’t have starting numbers \[unclear\] so thank you for your time. G: This is George if I may quickly. Since I know this is in our purview of the Commission especially for fishing and gathering rights and to do with... G: I was thinking we could advise the Mayor on this issue specifically – there seems to be a lot of concerned people also in Waimea along with Hamakua – so I was thinking maybe we as a commission could find out some facts and put something together. TL: George – we’re gonna put this on the agenda. Let’s at least try to stick to the agenda that I rarely do anyway, but, getting back to what was once known as 104 – does this Commission want to move forward with that and this is the, oh, the paper that I should have maybe – I put a title on these things here but on the back or on the second page it says constitutional amendment... And the paper starts – it’s single piece of paper – it starts with constitutional amendment to clarify that game animals are a protected resource... That’s it right there... There’s only two words that 34 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 change current law in Article 11, actually, right now, and that is that – it says, For the benefit of present and future generations, the State and its political subdivisions shall conserve and protect Hawaii’s natural beauty and all natural resources including land, water,” and we have re-inserted “game animals” which used to be in the Constitution and was surreptitiously – so to speak – taken out – “….air, minerals and energy sources, and shall promote the development and utilization of these resources in a manner consistent with their conservation and in furtherance of the self-sufficiency of the State.” Ah, HCR 22, which was supported and promoted by this Commission, as well, was passed – this dovetails with that so my question to the Commission is do you folks want to take this up? TL: So are we moving to move forward with this – we have a first and second is that it? A motion and a second? NP: OK. I’d like to make a motion that we pursue the constitutional amendment. TL: OK. All in favor? \[The ayes have it\] Anybody opposed to this? OK. So that’s one which we will accept. OK. Bills concerning DOFAW \[unclear\] season changes – that was something that Mr. Kanalu is sitting here telling us that they need this. We have another bill in front of you which says powers and duties of the Department – well, actually, let’s go to – forget that – let’s come back to the Cooperative Resource Management – that was the one that the Commission submitted previously... TL: It’s the Cooperative Resource Management... This used to be HB 105. Now this is one that the Mayor has seen and has given us... ?: Are you talking about this one – HB 105? TL: It’s not a House Bill anymore... We have a revised – it starts off at the top of the page, “Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Hawaii... TN: You talking about 183 D-262? Of Hawaii – HRS? Hawaii Revised Statute? TL: What we want to do is add the words, “Cooperative resource management” means a process for the management of public resources that identifies and actively involves stakeholders with a compelling interest, such as recreation, hunting, or gathering.” TN: When you say cooperative resource management – who are you talking about? TL: We’re talking about DLNR – we’re talking about people who have an interest in those activities... 35 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 KB: This is Kalei. The language you provided in the front cover? TL: That’s not it... It starts with “Being enacted by the Legislature of the State of Hawaii...” KB: OK. JO: I don’t see it in the paper we had 183 D... KB: So it’s the front page - is the one that talks about Kaupulehu and that’s right behind it. It’s stapled together – two pager. TL: OK. So you’ve all had a chance to... Comment? You guys want to take this up? G: This is George speaking. Is this a State law that... TN: It’s HRS, yes... TL: It is State law – it’s HRS... MH: George – that means Hawaii Revised Statutes – just so you know. G: OK. Thank you. MH: Yeah... G: How would you plan on taking this up with the State Legislature? TL: The Legislature... G: OK. TL: OK. So anybody move to... JO: I would like to move that we take this up with the State Legislature... TL: OK. KBK: Second... TL: Second. All right. All in favor? \[The ayes have it\] Any opposed? No? OK. So, moving on to... OK. Now, getting back to Kanalu – and the concerns – and this is something that Stanley brought up to me early on – and that is that 36 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 animals were either dropping ahead and I know that turkey season last year was early and by the time hunters were able to hunt there during turkey season they’re all done and so, you know, to give DLNR the opportunity to make these changes we had a bill that we didn’t turn in because of the Game Commission bill that we had at the same time when we turned this in. And we weren’t talking about the Game Management Advisory Commission at that time – but now that the Game Management Advisory Commission is in place – this is an opportune time to give them something to do and so what the language here says is that the department shall after coordination, direction and cooperation – and that word direction – I immediately got blow-back on – direction means that we would like to see you doing this or doing that, you know, not telling DLNR that well you’re gonna do this today – with the State Game Management Advisory Commission – and we’ve inserted that same language in 183 D3 and 183 D4. Where anything – any activities that go on with the Department be in cooperation with the Game Management Advisory Commission. So if you guys want to take this up as well? OK. So do we have a motion there? ?: Stanley – I move that we take this 183D and 183 D4... ?: Second that... iv. Bill Concerning Expenditures from the Wildlife Revolving to first be Approved by State GMAC rather than automatically be allocated to Match Funds for non-game and non-mammal expenditures TL: All in favor? \[The ayes have it\] Any opposed? OK. And the Wildlife Revolving Fund... We had some discussion about that tonight earlier in where is the money coming from... Um, this is a single page and the purpose of this submission – we were asked by Representative Richard Onishi to take this back when we submitted it originally, um, but now, again, is a good time that we have a Game Commission that’s been established and working with the State – now would be a good time to see if it would be worthwhile to have 183D 10.5 – and that’s the Wildlife Revolving Fund – this is hunting dollars: fees, tag fees, hunting license – all that money goes into the Wildlife Revolving Funds – about a quarter of a million dollars roughly a year goes in there maybe a little less and what this is asking is amending 10.5 is amended to read in addition to Subsection C and F the Department – we scratched out the word “may” and put “shall” use monies – and we added the word “received” scratched out “in” into the Wildlife – we added “into” – the Wildlife Revolving Fund for the importation into – we didn’t change anything else – except for the propagation and protection of game – scratched out “or” – and added “introduced game species or wildlife in the State” and we also added “after coordination, direction and cooperation with the State Game Management Advisory Commission may use those funds to maximize the State participation to secure federal funds \[unclear\] Pittman-Robertson.” One of the important 37 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 things about this is that right now the Wildlife Revolving Fund is obligated to take any money to match any federal money that the State has. The problem that we have is that from the federal side – any federal money that we borrow or use or share with for game – cannot do anything for game mammals. They have decided in their wisdom that they do not want to do anything that might at all provide for game mammal enhancement and some of the reasoning behind some of that is just really bizarre but this is some of the things that we would like to see the direction of where these monies go is being more directed towards the benefit of hunters and those that have put money into that fund and we feel that they’re the ones that should have some say in where this money goes and so that’s the \[unclear\]. TN: This proposal will benefit only the State Game Management Advisory – not the County? TL: Well, it’ll benefit me and you too. TN: And how will that benefit us at the County? TL: Well, because I hunt, for one thing – anything that they do – see, right now we do not benefit, really, I mean, I’m not a bird hunter. The bird people might benefit by this money right now, right? But people that mammal hunt don’t, you know, we talk about watering units in Puuanahulu – we can’t spend that money for this... So this is the State spending money to support the hunters is what you’re saying? TL: They support hunt and they – actually this Wildlife Revolving Fund supports every aspect of wildlife – endangered species, threatened species, as well as, game species. And supposedly – game mammals – but right now game mammals have been left out of the equation for the most part and any money that is used from this is obligated first to go to matching funds with the Fish and Wildlife Service. KS: Half of that money goes straight to maintaining our lease on Lanai for both deer and the sheep hunts there. And so to say that the money doesn’t go to mammal stuff is not correct. TL: Is there anything on State land? KS: And it’s a simple answer – it’s a State hunt and we maintain the lease there so all I’m saying is it’s not a fully correct statement that you’re making. It’s not on State land but it’s a State lease to allow State hunters to hunt there. Half of the money goes to that – that’s all I’m saying... 38 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 TL: How much money goes there? KS: More than that. We make about $500,000 dollars in the last couple of years when we increased our tag fees and our game bird stamps and the wildlife conservation stamp. So about half a million dollars and about $200,000 of that goes off the top to Lanai to maintain that lease and to maintain the management of those hunting programs. So I’m just saying – what you’re saying is not fully correct. TL: All right. Sorry... I will correct my statement. According to Kanalu half a million dollars goes to – out of the Wildlife Revolving Fund – to Lani – is that correct? KS: And I’m not trying to say that the general idea that we need to do more game mammal stuff is not needed – I’m just making sure that you’re correct – does that make sense? TL: It does. I took the numbers that I had out of the 2017 Report to the Legislature so is that in error? KS: I’ll have to go look – but that’s what we’ve been told in our corps group meetings the last couple years – that when the new rules went into place our Wildlife Revolving Fund Revenues increased from generally about $250,000 a year about doubled – so if that’s what not was reported I need to go look. TL: OK. No, I’ll be happy to look into that for you... But you are saying a half a million dollars comes into the Wildlife Revolving Fund – I just want to get that part clear. All right. So, although this money’s being spent not on State land – it’s for State hunt and I appreciate that part, you know, we would like to also see money spent on State land where we have some control of it – so that’s the purpose of our comments and our – here... State land is our where we have control – we have not control over Kipuka Aina Hou is a good example of how that is – we have Kauai 30,000 acres – a good example of how that was lost and it came back and maybe lost again. State land is something we don’t usually lose that quickly. So that is the idea behind this particular bill – so – the question is do we want to take this up? JO: Yes, I move that we take up this with the Legislature... TL: OK. Anyone second? ?: I second... 39 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 TL: OK. All in favor? \[The ayes have it\] Any opposed? OK. All right, well I do appreciate that. Getting back to the season changes – if you haven’t read this and you’ve read it, haven’t you or no? Is that an appropriate way to do it through public statement or public notice? TL: I’ll talk to you about that. We have the Committee Member and then the Election, right? OK. Teresa – you had some questions on the Committee assignments – and I do too, as a matter of fact. So as it stands – we essentially have five standing committees – we have Government Affairs, a Legislative – it’s really two committees in one; Trails and Access – I don’t know that we’ve done anything on that except with Ike – and we might – I don’t know what we want to do – change it to some other thing – we have a Public Outreach of which right now George is a primary member of it and is Nani; we have a Shooting Range Working Group of which Nani is a member, myself, Ike Yoshina, Stanley Mendes, Kean you’re a member of this committee – you’re still on that, right? And Jim O’Keefe. Did I get that right? OK. And then we have the Communications – we have Nani and myself right now except I’m not gonna be a commissioner next year – but it that something that George might want to become a part of? TN: Well, actually, I would like to become a part of... TL: You want to be on Communications, right? TN: Communications and Trails and Access... But you don’t have traditional customary practices up here as a committee... TL: Yeah, no, no, no – that’s good – cause Ike is really into that, too, so you should communicate with him as well. And he has some personal things that he’s interested in. TN: Well, I helped start Na Ala Hele... That is now a State entity in parks – in National Parks. TL: Good. OK. So you’re the perfect person for this. All right. So did we miss anybody or does anybody want to be on any of these committees that’s not already assigned? Kalei you’re on one or two of these. KBK: There was the committee that Teresa just started in last meeting – so I’m on that committee... Well I am on that committee, as well... TL: OK. And that’s under the Government for Legislative Action – the rules part. 40 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 NP: Fishing... TL: And you started which one, Teresa? TN: Traditional and Customary... TL: Traditional and Customary... OK... Do we want to add that to Trails and Access? OK. And we’ll tie that in with Trails and Access... Is that OK with everybody? KBK: Yup... TL: OK. Good, OK. Any other additions, deletions? I forgot all about you... GH: Yes, can I join the Cultural Committee? TL: We have Ike and communicate with Ike, Teresa on that. You, Ike and Grayson are on that Traditional and Cultural Practices, correct? KBK: And me... G: And George would like to be on the Traditional and Cultural Practices one... TL: I saw you in here George... Just so you know – that’s it as far as commissioners go on this committee. I’m assuming that’s correct, right? MH: Yes, you shouldn’t have more than quorum... TL: Right, any other changes? We’re good? Otherwise we have three minutes to elect a new Chair... G: Oh, yes, I think that the people that testified this evening from the Hamakua area – I think we should potentially take their concerns to the Mayor and advise – I think we need to find some more facts. I was looking at some of the numbers that were provided by various different people – and it seems like the injection wells are 400 feet deep and they pump about eleven million gallons of contaminated water with effluent into the ground and just for some like numbers to wrap our heads around that’s everyday as much oil as the Exxon Valdez oil spill was and every twenty days the amount of the Gulf Oil spill with BP deepwater horizon. TL: Are they pushing oil into the water? 41 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 G: No, they’re not pushing oil into – just chemicals in general – but that’s the volume of chemicals that they’re pushing there. So I think this can potentially impact the cliffs and the land with erosion and I think that has obviously impacts to game and it definitely impacts the fisheries and coastline and I think it can impact the coastline of the entire northern part of the Island – not just that area. It seems with the volume of water and whatever’s going through there we don’t have environmental reports yet – so we can’t say exactly what but I would assume something with hydro carbons if they’re burning wood. TN: And I’ve also looked at it very quickly tonight and there was no EIS or no EA study done and why they’re operating without that makes no sense to us. So we need to look into that before... TL: I agree and so we should put it on the agenda so whoever becomes the next Chair... NP: Can we just make a motion tonight that George can write up advice to the Mayor that we can review and if that could go forward... KBK: Chair, this is Kalei. I’d like to make a recommendation that the Traditional and Customary Practices with – this would be their first priority as far as to look up and study and then bring it to the Commission on for the next agenda. TN: This is Teresa – also if George could do some research for it and find out facts behind this – yes – I would like to make a motion to put George as Chair on this project and we go forward... G: OK. Great... TL: OK. One thing – I only have one – do you want to say anything about our meeting with the Mayor? Nani doesn’t want to say anything about our meeting with the Mayor? I can say something about our meeting but... NP: We met with the Mayor to talk about restoring our travel budget to go to the Legislature mainly – but it seems that we were denied and he says we should pay for it out of our funds and that we should only go as representatives of our self, for some reason, but in any case, he may reconsider if we write him a budget proposal and run by all of our Legislature, um, efforts first with him. iii. Bill Concerning the Cooperative Management of Resources with Approval of State GMAC Travel and Travel Budget 42 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 TL: We had a fifteen minute meeting that went for about an hour. We touched on a lot of things – we touched on the gun range – we touched on this – my interest was the travel budget. It’s important for this Commission – this Commission was successful primarily because of the fact that we were able to be there at the Legislature – it makes a big difference when we’re there and so he went from a “no” essentially to OK – well, submit your request to us – one of the bill that we have there that – Cooperative Resource Management bill – he actually made a recommendation toward that and so we incorporated his recommendation for that – so that may help us with our travel on some of this as well – cause it’s a bill now he signed on to – that and the gun range. Ah, basically what he’s saying that this commission needs to be a little more communicative with his office. They didn’t know hardly anything of what we did and I agree that we have been deficient there – so this is just something that we need to keep aware of going forward is to kind of keep him in the loop somehow so... OK. We have an election. What is the – can we just open it up to nominations at this point – OK – I’d like to open this up to nominations and I know Nani has a nomination she wants to make – so do I – who wants to go first... NEW BUSINESS: a. Election for Chair and Vice Chair NP: I would like to nominate Kalei Kossow for Chair. He’s very politically knowledgeable and I think that he’s motivated and I’d love to see him in the position. TN: Second the nomination... TL: OK. All right. Also, I have a nomination... TN: Do we do it one at a time or do it both together? TL: We have to vote between two people, right? MH: Well, you can go ahead and give yours and then we can discuss after. TL: My suggestion here is and I have been in many conversations on this in here – but I would nominate Nani and Kalei as vice chair – is what my nomination would be and I don’t know if she would accept it or not but... Under those terms? NP: I would if Kalei didn’t receive enough votes – I wouldn’t want us to be without a Chair – so I would on that basis do it. TL: Is that a yes? 43 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 NP: Yes. TL: This is no offense to you, Kalei, it’s just that I’ve been working with her for years, that’s all and not that my trust and confidence isn’t in you – it’s just I’ve got a good working relationship with her and I know that she knows what this Commission wants so... With that – so – how do we do this? Do you do this? MH: Do you want me to do it? TL: Yes. MH: Do you want to do it by secret ballot? No, I’m just joking, um... TN: Can we do it by roll call? MH: We can do it by roll call – let’s do that. All right. I guess you guys can just say who you want and then I’ll just write down who says what name and whichever name is said more is the winner. TN: Clarification. We’re voting only for the Chair not for the Vice Chair? MH: Yeah, this is Chair and basically there’s two nominations – it’s Nani or Kalei... So you have those two... G: Question... So we vote for the Chair and then whoever gets the most votes becomes Chair and whoever gets the second most becomes Vice Chair? MH: It doesn’t necessarily have to work that way but if you guys agree to that then that could also be... But usually it’s done separately so you do Chair and then nominations for Vice Chair after... OK... JO: I would like to ask to hear from the nominees... MH: Oh, yeah, do you guys both accept your nomination is the initial question – cause if you don’t accept your nomination than basically... KBK: I accept my nomination... MH: OK. NP: I accept... MH: OK. All right... So everybody understands what’s going on right now? So District one... 44 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 ?: Nani... MH: District two... ?: Nani... MH: District 3... ?: Nani... MH: District 4... ?: Kalei... MH: District 5... :?: Nani... MH: District 6 ?: Kalei MH: District 7 ?: Kalei MH: District 8 ?: Kalei MH: District 9 ?: Kalei... MH: OK. Kalei is Chair for next year five to four. ?: Who are you gonna have as your Vice Chair? KBK: Kalei Kossow nominated Nani as Vice Chair... NP: I would accept... Now we have a new Chair – I would like to take a moment to honor Tom. Nora, are you there? In appreciation of Chairman Tom Lodge for six years of impressive dedication to the Hawaii County Game Management Advisory Commission – Mahalo Nui Loa - the Mouflon of Mauna Kea... 45 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – November 13, 2018 ADJOURNMENT: G: George Donev moved to adjourn the meeting at 8:30pm. Seconded by Nani Pogline. Motion carried unanimously by voice vote. Respectfully submitted by: Donna Urban-Higuchi Secretary ATTEST: Thomas H. Lodge, Chairperson 46