HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN CHARTER 2019-02-08 (2018-2020)Hawaii County Charter Commission
Sty' Session
Council Chambers, Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street, Ste. 1401
Hilo, Hawai`i
February 8, 2019
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Hawai`i County Charter Commission was called to
ORDER: order at 1:39 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Mr. Douglass Shipman
Adams, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present:
Mr. Douglass Shipman Adams, Chair
Ms. Jennifer Zelko-Schlueter, Vice Chair
Mr. William Carthage Bergin, Commissioner
Ms. Michelle Galimba, Commissioner (left at 2:51 p.m.)
Mr. Paul K. Haman, Commissioner
Mr. Kevin D. Hopkins, Commissioner
Ms. Sarah H. Rice, Commissioner
Mr. Christopher John lmiloa Roehrig, Commissioner
Ms. Donna Mae Springer, Commissioner
Ms. Bobby Jean Leithead Todd, Commissioner (arrived at 2:12 pan.)
Absent: Ms. Marcia A. K. Saquing, Commissioner
Also Present: Mr. J Yoshimoto, Commission Attorney
Mr. Jon Henricks, Commission Analyst
Ms. Shannon Magnuson, Commission Secretary
Mr. Scott Ruedy, Dep. Executive Assistant to Council Chair (Kona Courtesy Site)
CHR. ADAMS: Welcome to the 8th session of the 2018-2020 Hawai`i County
Charter Commission. It is February 8th, 11:10 a.m. I would ask everyone to
please silence or turn off your communication devices. Let me call the meeting to
order. At this time if I could ask Mr. Henricks to please call the roll.
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Bergin (here), Ms. Galimba (here), Mr. Hainano (here),
Mr. Hopkins (here), Ms. Leithead-Todd (absent), Ms. Rice (here), Mr. Roehrig
(here), Ms. Saquing (absent), Ms. Springer (here), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (here).
Chair Adams (here).
Chair Adams, you currently have nine members in attendance.
Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
STATEMENTS
FROM THE
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS:
RICK
WARSHAUER:
The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you and that means that we have Commissioners
Leithead-Todd and Saquing currently absent. I know that we anticipate that
Commissioner Todd will be with us and Commissioner Saquing is excused.
Alrighty, at this time we are prepared to take statements from the public on
agenda items. I have a list of seven folks, seven members of the public here in
Hilo and what do I have in Kona?
MR. RUEDY: Good Morning Chair, we currently have two testifiers, possibly a
third testifier coming up.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay, great. So what we will do is, we will start with two here
in Hilo and then we will go to the two that we have in Kona and then we will
work off from there. So if I could ask Mr. Warshauer and Ms. Harden to please
come up to the table and then I'll also ask our two testifiers in Kona if they would
be available after these two please. Just as a reminder, please provide your name
and then the agenda item or items that you are speaking on. If it is a single
agenda item there is a three minute limit. If it is more than one, then there is a
five minute limit for all testimony at that point. Without objection?
Okay. Mr, Warshauer, thank you.
Proposal No. CA -7, CA -8, CA -13, and CA -16 in opposition and Proposal No.
CA -9 and CA -18 in support.
MR. WARSHAUER: Hello my name is Rick Warshauer, good morning. I will be
supporting—I mean speaking on CA -9, CA -18, CA -8, CA -7, CA -13, and CA -16.
1 support CA -9, Draft 2. This will fund a dedicated senior staff person to help
implement the PONC program. Administration of the program deserves more
than part-time attention. Please move this measure forward.
I support CA -18. This will transfer the administration of the PONC maintenance
fund from the Department of Parks and Recreation, to the Department of Finance
where it will finally get the proper administration and priorities. Since its
inception, only nine percent of the funds monies have begrudgingly and belatedly
awarded to the intended maintenance fund applicants, while the remaining 91% of
awards have gone quickly to a few consultants and other expenditures like a slush
fund. Please move this measure forward so that PONC properties can be
maintained.
1 oppose CA -8 and urge you not to pass it forward. Four years is too long of a
wait to vote out a poorly performing County Counciler. We have all seen more
than a few where even the current two year terin was interminably long. If they
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
do not want to run for a two-year term, they can pass and we will all be better off
for it.
I oppose CA -7, CA -13, and CA -16, which would lead to the defending and
debilitation of the PONC program. No amount of greenwashing will make them
any better. Please do not pass any of these measures no matter how much you
have been pressured. Instead, please listen to the expressed will of the people of
this County. They have been speaking unequivocally for years.
Each of these three proposals would return the PONC program to the County
Code from its safe haven in the Charter. The public placed it in the Charter to be
free of the demonstrated defending by the Administration and Council branches
of County government. If moved back to the Code, the PONC and Maintenance
Funds will be vulnerable to administrative and Council Shenanigans. Promise
budget funding will be just as vulnerable to diversion and defending as it was
before the PONC funding was protected by Charter placement despite the lofty
wording of CA -16.
In addition, CA -7 removes the restrictive covenant on PONC acquired property
interest, eliminating the likelihood of matching funds from other sources and it
also removes the directive that the highest and best use of the PONC fund is for
attracting matching funds to amplify its effectiveness. The purpose of any and all
of these three proposals is to gut the PONC program. If you vote in favor of
these, it will be clear to the public of your intent. At the end of your last meeting
you were left so tongue-tied and twisted with interdigitating amendments that
discussed two proposed Charter Amendments simultaneously, that it was unclear
to witnesses what emerged at all or where from. Basically a few members were
trying to put lipstick on a pig and to try to greenwash the planned demise of the
PONC program. You would do better to stick to the script or vote from the heart.
If you support the PONC program, vote for CA -9 and CA -18 and not for CA -7,
CA -13, and CA -16. Be sure they are roll call votes. If you have time left over,
consider placing the disaster and emergency fund into the Charter with specific
funding increments and a hefty target amount for disasters, so it cannot continue
to be regularly raided as a slush fund. This would negate the rationale for CA -13,
the fund raider clause. Perhaps you could amend CA -13 to do so instead of its
raiding other special funds. The issues relating to PONC and some of the other
matters before you all come down to money, how much, who calls the shots, who
gets it, and the like. If the Administrations that appointed you, your predecessors,
and succeeding Charter Commissioners and also the various County Councils
over time, really want to find a better path to new money, they should plan to
acquire more into the budget rather than redirect a short supply.
On this island with such disparity in wealth and so much off shore property
ownership, they should all look into taxing the most expensive properties and
houses at a much higher rate than do the residents, than pay the residents who
struggle with ever rising property valuations and taxes.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
Commissioners, please do not be pawns in the money game. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Ms. Harden.
CORY HARDEN: Proposal No. CA -16 in opposition, Proposal No. CA -17 commenting and,
Proposal No. CA -18 in support.
MS. HARDEN: Cory Harden speaking for myself on three items. One is, I am
opposed, CA -16, this is Ms. Leithead-Tod's proposal to keep the two percent
preservation fund and maintenance fund as is but to remove detailed maintenance
provisions and hire staff. Instead of CA -16, I support keeping the two percent
fund as is just add CA -9 for a staff person and CA -18 regarding the maintenance
fund.
Commenting on CA -17, Ms. Leithead-Todd's proposal for a disaster fund, I am
happy to see this after Brenda Ford's testimony last time about using disaster
funds, not two percent funds for emergencies, but I will leave it to wiser heads to
figure out if this should be in the Charter.
And last, I support CA -18, that is amendments to the two percent maintenance
fund and I hope this will address the problem of people having trouble getting
stewardship grants. In general, I hope the Commission will support all measures
that strengthen the two percent fund. I found this book on forest therapy which
cites numerous studies about the benefits of the outdoors. For example, the health
benefits of parks by Trust for Public Land, healthy parks, healthy people, from
Deakin University in Australia. More green space is linked to less stress. That's
from landscape and urban planning. Relationship between trees and human
health, from American Journal of Preventative Medicine, Restorative Effects of
Viewing Real Forests, Landscapes, from Scandinavian Journal of Forest
Research. Forest Environments Enhance Human Immune Function, from Nippon
Medical School in Japan, Forest Bathing Enhances Expression of Anti -Cancer
Proteins. International Journal of Immunopathology and Pharmacology, Children
with attention deficits concentrate better after a walk in the park, that is from
Journal of Attention Disorders, and lastly, Potential Natural Treatment of
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, American Journal of Public Health. So
there is wide science, world-wide about the benefits of outdoor places. Thank
you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much. If we could turn to our, actually before
we turn to our speakers in Kona, 1 would ask Leslie Cole -Brooks and Margaret
Wille, please to come to the table, and then who is our first speaker in Kona
please?
MR. RUEDY: Today we have Brenda Ford in support of CA -9, 17, 18, in
opposition of CA -13 and 16, go ahead and state your name.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
BRENDA FORD: Proposal No. CA -7, CA -8, CA -13, and CA -16 in opposition and Proposal No.
CA -9, CA -17, CA -18 in support.
MS. FORD: My name is Brenda Ford. I am a former Council member and I am a
co-author with Debbie Hecht of both the PONC and the PONC maintenance
funds. As mentioned I do not support CA -7 or CA -8, I do support CA -9. I
support CA -12, do not support CA -13 regarding the PONC. I do not support CA -
16, I do support CA -17, the Disaster and Emergency Fund, which I will talk about
separately here in a moment, and I support CA -18, to transfer the duties to the
Department of Finance. I am going to leave most of the comments regarding the
PONC and its maintenance fund to Debbie and I am going to talk to you about the
Disaster and Emergency Fund. I want to commend Bobby Jean Leithead-Todd
for taking the initiative to write this legislation and put the Disaster and
Emergency Fund in the Charter where it truly belongs, so that it does get funded. I
have sent over amendments to this to you and I hope they have been handed out.
Mine are colorized in red and I don't know if yours are, but I did follow the
appropriate fornat for making changes.
So let me start in Section B, there is a phrase for natural and human caused
disasters or emergency that is repetitive throughout this section. Instead of
keeping it in the subsections, I put it into the statement 4(B) it should read For
natural or human caused disasters or emergencies monies in this fund shall be
utilized only and then it just goes on to the list. Number B (5) to pay for
operational expenses of the County after disaster or emergency and the County is
unable to realize revenue at sufficient levels, this belongs in the budget
stabilization fund. I have stricken it out of this section of the Emergency and
Disaster Fund completely. It is in the wrong place, and I have added a couple of
sections down at the bottom.
Page 2, E and F, one of the constant complaints that I have heard while I was on
the Council for eight years and for the four years since I've been on the Council,
is the public and the Council cannot tell what funds are being expended for the
disaster or the emergency and that is because the line items in the budget do not
allow for transparency. These two sections, E the emergency fund shall have a
section in the budget with subcategories showing where the funds originated,
that's in the revenue section, and where these funds are being expended, that is
what E and F do, so the public can say in the case of the Puna disaster, the
eruption disaster, we got X amount of dollars from the County, X from the State,
X from the Feds, and this is what we spent the money for, Road A, X amount,
Road B, X amount, Outbuilding C, X amount. We need to have that type of
transparency. Government is too lacking in transparency and this is not a good
thing for the public or for the Council, so I am encouraging you to do this. Again,
I commend Ms. Leithead-Todd. I really appreciate it, and the last thing I want to
mention on this is she put a reasonable amount of 20 million dollars for a cap.
This is a good amount but please remember that in the newspaper recently, the
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
Mayor was asking for 155 million dollars. Twenty percent of that if it comes
from the Feds, it is required twenty percent. I am not sure what the amount is for
the State. It might also be twenty percent, but you have got to plan for the worse
case basis so twenty percent of 155 is excuse me, 31 million dollars. I respectfully
request that you consider raising the cap in this Charter Amendment from 20
million to 30 million. It will not change the amount that funds each year. It just
changes the cap so that if we should ever get to 20 million, we can continue to
contribute funds up to 30 million. We need to have robust funds, not extravagant
funds but robust funds or we will be in this situation that we are currently in
again.
Lastly, I would like to say that the Charter Commission does not work for the
Mayor. The Charter Commission is a legislative body, co -equal with the
executive branch which is headed in this County by the Mayor. Popular to
contrary to belief, the Mayor doesn't run the legislative branch which includes
you. You are the representative of the people. The Mayor is the representative of
the Administration. It is his job to manage the business of the County and that is
his only job. It is not to set policy. You set policy with your Charter
Amendments, the public will vote on them if they want them. You write
legislation and it goes into the ballot and the public votes if they want to have that
legislation, that amendment in the Charter. Please always remember that you
represent the best for the people of this County. Also please remember that this
Mayor has said publicly that he would prefer that the entire island be developed.
He would also prefer that the developers take over all of our treasured lands.
They would still be treasured lands, but they would be a treasury for the
developers. Please, please, do not do anything with the PONC except what we
are recommending, CA -9 and CA -18, I think there might be one more, CA... no,
that's it. CA -9 and CA -18. Thank you very much for your time and please if
Bobby Jean is not there, please tell her she did a great job. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Ms. Hecht.
MR. RUEDY: Okay, our next testifier is Debbie Hecht in support of CA -17,
opposing CA -7, 13, and 16. Alright, state your name.
DEBBIE HECHT: Proposal No. CA -7, CA -13, and CA -16 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -17
and CA -18 in support.
MS. HECHT: Aloha Commissioners my name is Debbie Hecht and I have been
the Save Our Lands Citizen's Committee campaign coordinator since 2006, that
means for 13 years. It is certainly an enormous undertaking to be a Charter
Commissioner and to represent the people of the island. In the last three meetings
you have heard from 70—more than 75 people who are in support of the two
percent land fund program. There are more here today. You have only heard
from two people who are against the land fund program, Mayor Kim who would
like to see the whole island developed, and Council Chair Aaron Chung. We have
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
tried to be respectful of your time and ask our supporters to not testify on things
they have cited before to save time.
So here is what I don't understand when I am sitting by myself thinking about this
campaign. The two percent lands have been preserved and they protect beautiful
stretches of coastline and our island special places. This is why people come to
visit the island. The natural beauty of this island provides for our income, for our
families via the tourist industry. If you want to go to a city and shop in boutique
stores and look at the dead reef, you go to Waikiki. If you want crowds in small
places, they go to Maui and Kaua`i. Place for open spaces and place of the
culture of old Hawai`i is represented at our four national parks and our open
spaces. We have more than 15 ecosystems on this island and more endangered
species than almost anywhere else in the world. Why doesn't the Kim
administration see this economic engine that is provided by open space and park
lands? Why don't they see how much healthier people are when they get out and
get active? I guess you as Commissioners will need to decide if you support the
land fund program or not. When you go out for public meetings, I believe you
will encounter more of what you have heard here at the Commission meetings.
You will hear from the 63 percent of people who voted on this three times. Think
of the overwhelming support you have witnessed here and the articulate and
passionate testimony of more than these 75 people. What about the hundreds
more who have sent you emails? Think hard about the demographics of this
island. The population is 200,000. There are only 100,000 registered voters and
historically only one-third of these people show up to vote at elections. That's
35,000 people and then 63 percent of them vote in favor of the two percent land
fund three times. That is almost 19,000 people that have to show up at the polls
to vote in favor. So, keep on with the statistics, we collected 9,600 signatures on
our petitions. Those people are still dialed in on this program. We have a large
email list of 3,000 supporters, so that is why I guess you are going to have to
decide whether you will represent the people of the island or not.
So, CA -9 is a simple amendment and that adds a full-time staff person to
administer and guide the acquisition program and the maintenance program for
stewardship grants. We believe the reason why the money is being stockpiled is
that there is nobody on board to pay attention to work to administer the program.
So at your last Charter Commission meeting you went round and around trying to
amend CA -7 which guts the fund, takes away the perpetuity clause, and reduces
the amount to three-quarters percent, and moves the maintenance fund to the
Code where it can be messed around with every year by the Council and Mayor.
This is fatally flawed and we will not support it at the polls. We will run a just
say no campaign to squash this on the ballot. The land fund works. Please move
on to discussion on CA -9. We are also opposed to CA -13 which takes the
maintenance fund and the land fund in times of emergency, which is every year.
Every year we have a flood or hurricane, tsunami, earthquake, or lava flow. Just
say no to CA -13. Just say no to CA -16 where Commissioner Leithead-Todd tried
to combine the best elements but left out a lot of safety concerns that check up on
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
LESLIE COLE
-BROOKS:
the Charter Amendment. CA -17 which is also, I really applaud this effort of
Commissioner Leithead-Todd to create a strong disaster relief fund which cannot
be taken to balance the budget. Please say a very big, resounding yes to CA -18
and a very big rnahalo to Commissioner Rice who worked with us on this very,
very diligently. This is about the maintenance fund and strengthening that fund. I
have personally talked to all the people who are members of the groups who have
received maintenance grants. There are only nine groups who received a total of
nine percent of all of the money deposited out of the maintenance funds for the
last six years. Again, only nine percent.
When Council member Brenda Ford and I wrote this amendment back in 2011-
2012, the intent was to fund these non -profits which are literally the boots on the
ground doing the hard work.
CHR. ADAMS: Please summarize.
MS. HECHT: But only nine percent of that money...I am almost done. Two
minutes, one minute...
CHR. ADAMS: Actually, actually, you've used your time so please summarize.
MS. HECHT: I am. Okay, so I have heard the need to build toilets, facilities, and
pay salaries and wages. I believe we have done this in the amendment that will be
coming forward to you and we are still making additional amendments, so I hope
you support the land fund with these particular amendments. Mahalo.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Alright, Kona do we have any other speakers at
your site?
MR. RUEDY: We have one more but she is not quite ready.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay and then back to Hilo, Leslie Cole -Brooks. Thank you.
Proposal No. CA -16 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -18 in support.
MS. COLE -BROOKS: Good morning. Try that again, okay wake up. Leslie
Cole -Brooks, I am here on behalf of myself, a concerned citizen. I was at the last
hearing when you were in Kona and I was here and I am just really struck by a
little bit of a groundhog's day here because we are talking about this still and
there's such strong support for the PONC fund. I am just really impressed. I
haven't heard anyone come in and say anything where they want to dismantle it
so it just, I am getting that now, just sitting here now and hearing the testifiers. I
am in support of the PONC fund, of keeping it strong as the electorate wanted,
keeping in the perpetuity which is so, so, important otherwise it would just be
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MARGARET
WILLE:
rendered really pretty useless. Having a staff person and so forth so to that end I
oppose CA -17, or 7, 13, 16.
I wanted to say something specific though about the -New Business, the CA -18,
the one that strengthens the maintenance fund. There is a provision that allows
for a 501(c)(3) which is a charitable organization to use some of the monies that
were granted should they receive a grant to pay for a salary and I just want to say
how important that is. That it is really a catch 22 with a lot of charitable
organizations, especially with local, community driven groups that have the heart,
they have the will, they really understand their local communities, but they don't
have the money to pay a staff person to see it through for a grant, for
maintenance. As you know it can take sometimes, quite a long time, long
timeline, and you don't want to enter into something like that if you are worried
that one of your volunteers might not kind of make it through to the end, so it is
such an important provision because it would really allow a 501(c)(3) to ensure
that they could see that job through and get that maintenance done, and also it is
so important that maintenance is kept separate and does not comingle with the
two percent acquisition fund because if you have land that has been purchased
and it has an issue with maintenance like invasive species, pick fencing has fallen
down and so forth, you had to take care of that right now and if those monies have
been comingled or lost in some way, or they aren't being utilized, then the whole
purpose of the PONC fund can be severely diminished. So, really strong support
for CA -9 and 18 and for seeing that a 501(c)(3) can use salary. I also wanted to
point out that there is a provision that states that at the end at the audit, if an
organization were to abuse that, they would be... and found to have abused that
by the Department of Finance, they would be forever prevented from ever
applying ever again for any monies. So I think that's a very strong provision that
would ensure that the money was used in the right way and that we really got this
fund working well. Thank you very much for your service.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you for your comments. Ms. Wille.
Comm. No. 12.3, Comm. No. 15, Comm. No. 3, CA -7, CA -8, CA -9, CA -12,
CA -13, CA -17, and CA -18, in support, opposition, and commenting.
MS. WILLE: Thank you. Good morning. The Charter is the people's
constitution. You only meet every ten years. When I was a Council member I
looked at offering some amendments and it was sort of we should really wait for
when the Charter Commission is meeting unless there is an emergency. You
know, I see that it's... you represent the past and the future. The Mayor and the
Council represent the present. We need savings accounts to protect our history, to
protect our future which is the open space, and have that savings account and our
economy is the environrnent. Our environment is the um, our economy is the
environment, our environment is the economy. There are many ways to raise
funds and not just tightening the belt. There are loopholes in the taxing, such as
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
the ag (agricultural) exemption for non -fanners, people that do not really have a
faun, that would bring in I am sure at least 20 million dollars, Credit Unions act
like non -profits, the, if you were to audit the house or homes, you would find that
there is a much larger footprint than is usually there. And one of the issues is
always stealing and the Department of Finance is that they are to minimize
expenditures, but often times and this is Section 6. Or Chapter 6, is that you need
to spend money to make money and so when I was proposing "let's do some
things that would do some audit or that" it was "well, that is not our mandate".
So, just in terns of overall, I feel you know maybe you have an ad hoc committee
brainstorming, I even put in something what it would look like if we did, if we
really needed money to do low stakes bingo. You know, there's a lot of things we
can do. I also think the other issue besides open space is agriculture is us and I
have often felt we really need more leadership there and it would end up
benefiting. I put in an amendment to add that department. I did write up a
number of issues. I am just going to comment on the other things I didn't so in
case they don't come across, I don't have time.
Communication 12.3 Protocols, Public Hearings, I really feel that more education
to the public. This is their document and how, why it's meaningful to there. This
is what decides power and I think as with open space, this is where they spoke.
This is —you are that forum. In terms of the four-year versus two-year council
terns, I agree with the four-year, however, one has to have a really strong recall
provision in order... you're never going to sell that unless you can remove
someone that is not doing their job. If there is a way to do that, it is much better
to have it where you are not having Council members spend their first year getting
on the ropes and their second year running for re-election, or if you don't and do
things like I did, you look at all the bills I put in the bills, you don't get reelected
because everybody is focused, that is where the focus is. But I realize that cannot
work unless there is the discipline and ability to recall so I think just... I am going
to go over just a few of the things that I had in that longer sheet, if anybody has
any questions I am always happy to add and in terms of Section 3.15, General
Plan, that should really be, the wording I added in there "community
environmental health", this is where we are all talking now and that we provide
for basically public trust to bring this provision general trust in line with the
Charter Section 13-29.
In terns of redistricting, I think that the redistricting you should hold the public
hearings one on each side, but then when you have the drafts, go to the nine
Councils where people have something to talk off of. Anyway, you can read
some of those others. Again, this is Chapter 16, Department of Finance, I feel
there has to be more long-term thinking and stop all of this short-term "how do
we save money right here", it has to be looking at funds and expenditures on a
long -tern basis and provide the Department of Finance a provision that allows
them to do that, such as saying... I put, well, balancing you know, keep
expenditures at the lowest amount, but while balancing the objective, against the
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
objective of securing sufficient revenue for programs that are aimed to reduce
long-term expenditures.
CHR. ADAMS: Please summarize.
MS. WILLE: Okay. I think everything else that I have in here is if you read this
list is pretty much speaks to itself, but again you represent us, the people, I don't
think Council members should be in here threatening, "If you don't do this, if you
don't do that, then we are going to raise taxes." That's baloney. This is, you
think long-term, not short-term. Thank you very much.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If I could have Deborah Ward and Mary Marvin
Porter to this table please. And who do we have in Kona?
MR. RUEDY: Our last testifier today is Gail Byrne in support of CA -9, CA -18,
opposing CA -7, CA -13, and CA -16.
CHR. ADAMS: Great, okay, PH have Ms. Byrne speak then, thank you.
GAIL BYRNE: Proposal No. CA -7, CA -13, and CA -16 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 and
CA -18 in support.
MS. BYRNE: Hi this is Gail Byrne and thank you all, and again for the record I
am in support of CA -9, CA -18, and opposed to CA -7, opposed to CA -13, and
opposed to CA -16. Good morning, good afternoon, and happy to be here. I
haven't been able to testify before because I had to work. I was glad I could get a
couple of hours off today and been working on these issues and open space
preservation and preserving cultural sites since before my daughter was a baby.
She is now 19 and off to college. My background is in engineering -civil
engineering and natural resource management. I love bridges, buildings, and wise
development and in fact, that is part of the reason I got involved in open space
preservation because it makes sound economic sense and the first time that I ever
testified before the County Council was I think in 2003, way before the two
percent fund, the maintenance fund, and I brought a sununary of research, the
compendium of research from around the country that showed that preserving
open space and investing in these types of programs makes sound economic sense
and then here we are again unfortunately I have to reiterate that testimony, but I
am glad to be here. And science really was the basis of the two percent, of the
two in the two percent land fund. I remember some of the initial conversations
and strategies around this.
You know the other islands, I think some has been referred to, the funds on the
other islands, we know for a fact they were ineffective for a variety of reasons but
primarily because they were too low. They just, you have to have a high enough
percentage to be able to gamer the funds to make purchases to get the matching
funds, to have an effective program and I also, I don't know if Sammie Stanbro is
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
out there but I want to Mahalo her because she took her own funds to help us with
some research and outreach to make sure that two percent fund made sense and if
there is public support behind it, and it was. Again, every step of the way it has
been really based on sound research and science in addition to strong public
support and it remains true today. I worked on a project for affordable housing
for farmers and faun workers about a year and a half ago with a statewide non-
profit and we were looking at various models nationally and as part of that
research, we were looking at what other states did in terns of preserving ag land,
housing, etc. and the states that had the most, that had some of the most solid
programs were those states where they had government programs. It wasn't left
up to non -profits or the private sector. They had strong government programs and
they were solidly funded, and so that's where you saw a lot of success with regard
to preserving ag land even in the affordable housing arena—strong government
involvement.
I want to speak just a little bit about the maintenance fund. I was involved in some
of the initial conversations around that as well and I am really glad that you guys
are working on these amendments that will help optimize the effectiveness of
those. Again, supporting CA -18. You know, I am from Kohala, I have a farm up
there and worked a long time and I know you have heard from folks from Kohala
already, and Kohala has a long history of taking care of stewarding land and
we've been successful in the last few years in securing grants to do really great
work especially with the kids in the high school, but I want to emphasize that
those were grants and they were one time shots, sometimes two. You cannot
steward lands long-term on grant funding. You cannot steward it long-term on
just volunteers. We are starting to get overwhelmed in Kohala in certain spots
and some of them two percent lands because of the increased visitor pressure and
because of roads that have been put in there, and I know that for myself that one
of the primary objectives behind the maintenance fund and supporting that and to
getting it passed was to support rural economic development and to support the
families and the people who know these lands, know how to steward these lands,
have great skills and assets to bring to the table, and we should be funding them
and it makes sense because we know a dollar spent with those families and in
these communities gets recirculated and recirculated as opposed to spent on
consultants from you know, out of state or other islands.
I also want to say that Kohala was successful finally this year in 2018, fall of 18,
in securing a maintenance grant. It took four years. I drafted the first one in 2014
and this last one that finally got funded and you know part of that is just the issues
with getting programs off the ground. I get it, I used to work in government. And
then, there are other reasons too that the folks have spoken to, but I want to
emphasize that even though there are areas where people are stewarding these two
percent lands, we do need a maintenance fund. You cannot rely on the
community to do it a hundred percent volunteer and we do want that rural
economic development that I was just referring to.
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Please summarize
MS. BYRNE: Well, I guess I'll just say again, I am in support of CA -19 and CA -
18 and when I was speaking with my daughter who is 19 right now and working
to earn money for college last night, I as telling her what I was going to do today
because she has been before the Council and the Legacy Lands at the State level.
She grew up doing this kind of work and she said "really Mom? They are
considering taking that away?" So, she doesn't have any fon-nal testimony but
she did want me to say Sienna Byrne, that the program has worked. It is
supporting kids and it is saving precious land and let's tweak it to make sense and
optimize it, but please no on CA -7, no on CA -13, and no on CA -16. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you.
MS. BYRNE: And thanks for all of your work on the Charter Commission.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Deborah Ward.
MARY MARVIN
PORTER: Proposal No. CA -7 and CA -13 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 and CA -18
in support.
MS. MARVIN PORTER: I need to leave. Let me just say I am Mary Marvin
Porter and I am not going to read my statement. I just strongly support having
open spaces and the two percent land fund and the amendments CA -9 and CA -18,
and thank you for your work. Mahalo.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you.
DEBORAH WARD: Proposal No. CA -7, CA -13, and CA -16 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 and
CA -18 in support.
MS. WARD: Good Morning. My name is Deborah Ward and you've seen me
before. Moku Loa Group of Siena Club strongly supports CA -9 and CA -18,
preserving and improving this PONC fund. These amendments that are proposed
to the existing Charter strengthen the intent of the overwhelming majority of
Hawai`i voters. It makes no sense to break what's not broken. We must strive to
improve both the ability to protect the land for access, cultural preservation, and
agriculture, by designating a staff person through the Department of Finance to
manage the acquisitions and to assure the proper care of the land through proper
maintenance. The language in CA -9 and CA -18 improves the currently less than
effectual process. We acknowledge the work of Commissioners Galimba and
Commissioner Rice to recognize the importance of strengthening our ability to
protect and preserve these resources while the important thing is that we are also
supporting local communities in taking responsibility to care for the precious
open spaces.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
We strongly oppose CA -13 which would allow the Mayor at his or her discretion,
to expend any fund, special fund, in the County. The Disaster and Emergency
Relief Fund that is described in the Charter should be fully funded and
strengthened and this dedicated fund saved and increased for rainy days, should
be the core intent of you folks- the Commission. We would like to thank
Commissioner Leithead-Todd for submitting the amendment of CA -13 for initial
approval, however, the intent of CA -16 appears to consolidate Section 10-15 and
10-16 for the sake of simplicity, but we believe that the language of CA -18
provides much better guidance for the Department of Finance and the utilization
of the maintenance fund. So I have noticed when I was looking at Debbie Hecht's
submissions, that there's a disproportionate allocation of funds to a planning
consultant in the tune of $225,000. To an Oahu corporation, and surely the
people who receive that funds were paid a salary. That was for the planning for
one piece of land. Meanwhile the people who are striving for example, to clean
up Waipi`o, which was a giant community dump for many years apparently, they
are a a 501(c)(3). They have been working for five years on this project and they
are not paid but they are using their personal trucks, and their personal money,
and their personal funds to pay people. I mean to feed people that come to do the
work there. They are not getting any of those funds reimbursed, and so, I just
have to ask you why would you possibly oppose improving our PONC fund when
you have the opportunity to either gut it or improve it. Let's improve it. This is
what the people want, this is what we have worked for for many years, we will be
out at the polls. We will be at you know, conducting a campaign. There is no
stopping us in making sure that we protect this. And so, I just want to thank you
very much for all of your time and I hope that you will consider our testimonies.
Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much. If I could have Michael Yee and Sammie
Stanbro to the table please.
Mr. Yee.
MICHAEL YEE: Proposal No. CA -11 (Comm. No. 27) in opposition.
MR. YEE: Good Morning. Michael Yee, Planning Director with Hawaii
County. You know I had a testimony all kind of lined out but I am about to just
chuck that because after hearing some testimony today, I just want to comment a
little bit more. So, Planning Director, or Planning Department, we staff both
planning commissions on this island. We also have to attend Board of Appeals,
we manage several community development plan action committees, so we
engage with folks just like you, every day. So when I sit there and say "thank you
for your service", I know what it takes for you to sit up here and to make the
decisions that you have to make. It is not easy and the folks that know me, know
that I am a huge ah I am an advocate for equity that often in these public
settings we hear from a certain group and it would skew the policy making if we
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
just listened to who comes out and who writes a letter. There is a silent majority
that exists on this island that you are here to represent too and the idea that
somehow you folks have just long-term vision and Administration just has short-
term vision is just not true. One thing 1 have found on this island is that
everybody cares. We all have children, we all have grandchildren, we all have
family that we try to take care of. We may have a certain focus area, but I haven't
found one cabinet member that I work with, that doesn't care about the future
beyond our time in this Administration. We are all focused on trying to develop
policy and programs that better the lives of our children and that certainly is why I
took this job, to help create a future for my four- year- old that we want to raise
here. So, you know, it's difficult. You have to screen out or think about
everything that is corning in front of you and to balance that with what you know
of this island and what are the best decisions. That's policy making. That's
decision making, and it is not easy, so I really do appreciate your service here.
I did come to talk about Communication No. 27, I can't remember what CA
(Charter Amendment) 8 or something, which was a suggestion to require the
Planning Director to have Hawaii land use experience, and if that was the case I
wouldn't be sitting in front of you and being a Planning Director takes so much
more than just land use experience. It takes the ability to manage a department,
personnel issues as we always know is kind of the bane of our existence
sometimes as managers, so you have to be a good supervisor. There's the ability
to go out in the community to work on general plan, community development
plans, and that doesn't necessarily take experience in Hawaii land use to
understand how to work with the community and how to translate people's needs
into a plan and to be able to listen to folks, truly listen, truly hear. You know, it is
difficult enough for this island to compete with finding skilled folks to work and
then to try to add that on in the County, trying to lower the pool of applicants that
the Mayor can choose from, certainly would not bode well for the future of this
island. I am already in this job. Me coming up here and advocating to oppose
you know this requirement, is not self-serving in any which way. I am already in
this job. But I could see down the road that you are only reducing the potential
applicants and to single out the Planning Director which at least from my
perspective, is a very important position within the cabinet. I don't think it is
what you want to do, so thank you for listening to me today.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you.
SAMMIE
STANBRO: Proposal No. CA -7, CA -13, and CA -16 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 and
CA -18 in support.
MS. STANBRO: My name is Sammie Stanbro. I have been before you before.
Again, I have been on commissions, I have done 12 years in your sitting around
like you're sitting listening to everybody, it was at the two Mayor's, I was at their
pleasure. I wasn't at their instruction and when I heard Harry talk to you guys at
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Hawai `i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
the beginning of this, he was giving you instruction. And that is not what a
coirunission does. It is listening to the people and it is working for the people. I
also listened to Aaron Chung who is on the Council and he was giving you
instruction. That is not what you do as a Commissioner. I have done that for 12
years and I know that I served the people in both Kona and here in Hilo. I also
would like to say to you that obviously I am supporting no on 7, 13, and 16 and
yes on CA -9 and 18.
I heard Harry, as much as he is a friend, I heard him say that the County had
plenty of money and always supported land acquisition. The reason why I threw
$11,000 to start the Trust for Public Land into us being able to start this process of
working with voters, is we went before the Council and the Council would not
give any money to any kind of land acquisitions, even seed money or matching
funds because Harry said "we don't have it." The Council said "we don't have
it." So how two percent started is that we thought "well, we have got to get some
money into the County so that when things carne up, the County would have some
matching funds." And this was back in the early 2000's. It was a long time ago.
And so, this was totally grassroots, and it was because the Mayor said "no, we
don't have any funds for snatching" and there was a property down in Ka`u that
everyone thought was State or County and it was going to be developed into a big
housing development and the people in Ka`u said "no, this is a historical lands,
we thought it was State." And it was Honu`apo which is one of the most beautiful
parks and it is really well taken care of and it was because a local person put up
the money to start a fund for a 501(c)(3) so they had the money. They are not a
two percent, because it was before two percent, but they had the money in this
small fund for bathrooms, for trash pick-up and to pay for their gas for their
lawnmowers to keep Honu'apo absolutely beautiful and you know, if you haven't
seen it when you go around the corner from Na`alehu, it is just a gorgeous site.
That whole coastline is because of two percent and because of the people that
cared to preserve that coastline. I just met a family that came here, that carne to
Big Island specifically because they heard about the open lands and coastlines.
They said they almost dropped dead when they found out that nobody can
develop that whole coastline of Ka`u. It is alI protected and it's County. Because
of the County and because of the two percent. So this is big money that carne to
our island. A whole family, a whole crew of there staying on both sides of the
island with all the restaurants. So economically this pays and when the Mayor
asks for more money, again, I am going to reiterate we need, it has already been
said, we need to beef up our disaster and I know he is asking for a lot of money
from the Feds and from the State, and he will get it. He will get it because the
people on Oahu love Hawai`i Island because they see that we are doing over here
what they can't do anymore. We have worked really hard to get Turtle Bay up in
the North Shore. I mean we worked for years to preserve Turtle Bay for ag and
for open space and the people on O`ahu were just over the top. They didn't think
that this would happen but it did and they say to us "you are so lucky that you
guys got in the ground level, so you can protect your special lands." So again,
thank you for your time and for what you do. And, I just don't understand how in
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
any way that you as a Commission, cannot listen to the people instead of the
people that put you on the Commission. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much. If I could have Dwight Vicente please to
the table. Mr. Vicente I know that you weren't here when I gave our instructions
or ground rules. Please state your name, the agenda items that you are speaking
on, and if it is one agenda item it's three minutes, if it is more than one agenda
item, it is five minutes total. Thank you.
DWIGHT VICENTE: Communication No. 1, Communication No. 2, Communication No. 4, and
Communication No. 7, commenting.
MR. VICENTE: Good afternoon, my name is Dwight Vicente. I am representing
the Hawaiian Kingdom. I am going to—I added number... I am getting all
confused. Number five and I am going to eliminate I guess four. I am going to
start off with number one under Communications. Communication No. 12.3,
Protocols and Public Hearings, I think you need to state the law in your limited
jurisdiction so I hear a lot of confusion out here. People don't know that they are
talking about. They are complaining, they are talking but it is not based on law or
fact, so you need to establish your jurisdiction and the limits of it by law. You
might figure out more as I add on more.
Number two, Communication No. 21.55, dealing with Open Space. I don't know
how many of the people here truly understand what actually the history is with the
crown and government lands that belong to the Hawaiian Kingdom. In 1898 there
were lands that were leased out by King Kalakaua from three to five years. It was
bumped up to twenty-five years that would bring the leases up to 1925. What the
Republic ofHawai`i gave to the United States in 1898 is just 1.8 million acres of
crown and government lands. So that became in 1900 the territory of Hawai`i. In
1920 it became Hawaiian Home Lands and in 1959 the Territory of Hawai`i
petitioned Congress to be admitted into the Union as a State and that consisted of
the 1.8 million acres, no more and no less. It is because of the 25 year leases
under King Kalakaua that excluded all of those acres that includes Johnson Island,
Luzon, the Guanao Islands, the Northern islands above Niihau, to include
Ni`ihau and a lot of lands that were leased out to the plantation and the ranchers,
so till today, it is not even included as the State of Hawai`i. The State of Hawai`i
is limited to the 1.8 million acres of crown and government lands that the United
States illegally possessed and rebranded as Hawaiian Home Lands. So you
cannot purchase these lands. So the two percent fund is useless because these
lands, the Kingdom reserved the right to contract these lands as King Kalakaua
did for the twenty-five year lease ten -n. So it didn't become the plantation land or
ranch or whatever. It still remained crown and government lands under the
jurisdiction, even today, under the Hawaiian Kingdom. So the limits of the
County of Hawai`i is not the whole island like people want to believe or the great
misunderstanding. It is limited to the lands called Hawaiian Home Lands as part
of the 1.8 million acres. There is no law saying otherwise and when you read the
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
case law dealing with Downs vs. Bidwell, they were only talking about the 1.8
million acres and another thing too people have got to realize, in 1875 the
Reciprocity Treaty was never ratified or should I say signed by King Kalakaua or
the U.S. (United States) President. So that treaty is relied on the Downs vs.
Bidwell and most recently Sai vs. Clinton and Sai vs. Trump. That only deals
with the 1.8 million acres and that is still in question because the Republic of
Hawai`i consisted of U.S. citizens who were here on a treaty that didn't exist.
There were no Reciprocity Treaty. This Kingdom did not fall under—that's why
you hear the Public Trust Doctrine all the time. We are not... there's no
amendment to (inaudible) this Kingdom under the Northwest, Article 5, of the
Northwest Ordinance. It is under the Articles of Confederation now and under the
U.S. Constitution, Article 4, Section 3, Clause 2. That is limited. There is no
amendment and the courts cannot make a ruling to amend the Constitution
through Article 5 because they are not a party to Article 5 of the U.S.
Constitution.
CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Vicente, if you would please summarize.
MR. VICENTE: Okay, with Number 5, the number 27, so like with the Planning
Director, if he has any authority, it would be limited to the Hawaiian Homes
Commission Act and the lands involved. It does not go beyond that and that is
the clarification. It would be good to have an expert who knows all of this is what
I am telling you. Because that is what I figured out on my own and that is what is
actually written and not what everybody else is saying. I don't know where they
got that information from. So, it should be clarified. So, with this, I will reserve
the rights of this Kingdom under the Queen's Protest of January 17, 1893 against
U.S. Minister Stevens that has yet to make its way to U.S. Supreme Court, Article
3, Section 2, Clause 2. Original but limited jurisdiction and the other one is the
Constitutional question about the Reciprocity Treaty that King Kalakaua did not
sign and the U.S. President did not sign in 1875. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you very much. I understand that we also have, I am not
sure who is going to be testifying, Jesse or Kulia Potter, Again, if you would
please identify yourself by name and then the agenda items you are speaking on,
and if it is more, if it is one agenda item, three minute limit, and if it is more than
one, five minute limit please. Thank you.
JESSE POTTER: Proposal No. CA -7, CA -13, and CA -16 in opposition and Proposal No. CA -9 and
CA -18 in support.
MR. POTTER: Aloha Mai Kakou, my name is Jesse Keane Potter. I am
representing Pohand 1 Ka Lani one of the PONC stewardship grantees. Speaking
on Agenda Items, let me just reference, there's more than one, so I signed up for
five minutes. On number 7, number 9, 16, and 18, I think are the ones. So, just as
a background before 1 comment on each item, our stewardship organization is one
of the first ones awarded in 2016 for the Waipi`o Valley Lookout parcel for the
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
Public Open Space Natural Resource Conservation property at the Waipi`o
lookout. So ours started in 2016 and we are continuing today. We are going on
our third contract year, continuing on in the third year as well, but there has been
some delays and overlaps and so just as a background, a lot of these amendments
have kind of come from feedback from organization and so I just want to
comment on each one. The first one is number seven, Communication, Item No.
7, which is the reduction and the suspension, and the removal of the perpetuity
clause. Some comments on that. Of course from my understanding the
maintenance fund wouldn't be affected by this amendment, the .25 percent would
still be put into the maintenance fund and from what I have seen, the purchases
average about, I think it is about six million or two million a year, I think it was,
and the reduction you know, might affect the long-term, the viability of the
program and that is something that I feel that the Department of Finance will be
the best to give guidance on that as to what is the amount needed. The main two
concerns on that one is the suspension and it could be a slippery slope, it could be
you know, decided every year. Those kinds of things during tough financial times
and locally and globally that could be a regular thing and so it could jeopardize
the viability of the program. The perpetuity clause, I was reading through the
Charter Commission's report on that, and I understand your guy's reasoning for
removing the perpetuity clause, but I don't think it should be done just wholesale
removal. It should be more of a nuance alteration if like you know, a very special
you know, like reasons why and approval process, and not just a wholesale
removal of the perpetuity clause. So, that is my comment on that because it is
part of the intention of the program and to remove it completely without some
nuance and honoring of that intention, without allowing flexibility, I think is not
the right direction for that.
Next commenting on the... number nine, which is the funding of the County
PONC staff position, I think that one is a crucial one because our organization
applied in August of 2014 and didn't get executed until January of 2016. A year
and a half after our application. Matching funds aren't able to be secured with the
delays, and basically it is hard to plan as an organization if you apply for things
and such big delays, every, all three of our contracts have been delayed, probably
just due to lack of staffing in the Parks and Rec (Recreation) Department, to be
able to review applications, so this position whether it is in Department of Finance
or Parks and Rec, or in some other department, is crucial to help this process
along. There was two lapse periods where there was no stewardship of the
property at the Waipi`o Valley Lookout and areas that we had previously cleared
became overgrown because there was a lapse in stewardship so it required when
we started back up to have conservation groups, youth groups, come help re -clear
those areas that had been lapsed in maintenance, so this staff person would help to
hopefully streamline that process and make stewardship grants consistently
awarded and continually implemented.
The next one is Communication No. 16, 1 think just a short comment on this is
that number, Communication No. 18 is the preferable amendment regarding the
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
RECESS:
RECONVENE:
maintenance fund, so I am in opposition to this one. And in reference to
Communication No. 18, which is the one that is the more holistic one, the needs
for the uses of the funds, a lot of it comes from our experience, at Waipi`o Valley
Lookout there is a lot of rain, sun, at different times of the year, and we had been
volunteering as an organization and hosting work days where we would have to
set up temporary shelter sometimes in the pouring rain, go there to do work and
be caught in the rain and have no place to go and no bathroom except for down
the lookout, and so there is... it has been a struggle the last few years to conduct
the stewardship in the fact that the restrictions of the funds don't allow for
bathrooms to be put there, so we couldn't propose that in our applications. They
don't allow for construction of you know shelters or anything like that, so that we
have to bring temporary shelters, set it up, and break it down before we leave if
not, it might be vandalized or stolen. So those are really some important things
for us. Those ones and the Department of Finance, they could be a better option
to be able to oversee the maintenance grants. They are already involved in the
purchasing and aware of the properties. The Department of Parks and Rees seems
short staffed on this issue. They have been great in working with us when we are
able to communicate on things, although just a general observation is that they
seem short staffed. And as a, just a summary, so, we are representing Pohaha I
Ka Lani, we are opposed to number seven, Communication No. 7, opposed to
Communication No. 16, but in support of Communication No. 9 and No. 18.
And a few last comments is that we have been humbled to be able to steward this
property at the Waipi`o Valley Lookout that was purchased for cultural and
historic preservation of the site. The site name is Koa`ekea we refer to it as it is
really important, the history and genealogy of a famous Chief of Waipi`o. Our
organization's mission is to revitalize and advance indigenous Hawaiian culture in
the stewardship of this property and without this fund, this property is, you know,
wouldn't be the same, and the viability of this fund I think is an important thing to
take into consideration and I think that you know, some of the changes might
affect the viability and that's a bigger discussion I think with Department of
Finance could guide you guys on those ones because the maintenance fund
wouldn't really be affected and there is the issue but if all the lands were going to
be stewarded, how can they be maintained, and that is a question but I think for us
volunteering for two and a half going on three years now, we have been humbled
with this opportunity and I hope you guys see the importance of the PONC
stewardship program. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Are there any other comments, statements from the
public? Kona? None here in Hilo? Public Statements, Statements from the
Public are hereby closed. Without objection take a 10 minute recess.
At 12:18 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
The meeting reconvened at 12:32 p.m.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
APPROVAL OF
MINUTES:
CHR. ADAMS: Test. Great, thank you. We are back in session. I would
entertain a motion to approve the minutes of the, the regular meeting minutes of
January 25, 2019.
Moved by Commissioner Zelko, seconded by Commissioner Bergin. Any
discussion on the minutes themselves?
Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: Small comment. I think it's kind of a waste of Shannon's time
to have to translate the minutes.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Any other comments? Alright, all in favor of the
motion to approve the minutes please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed?
Alright, the motion passes 8-0 with Commissioners Saquing, Leithead-Todd, and
Hopkins absent.
The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
Approval of Minutes.
Vote on Motion
To Approve Minutes:
(Approved)
COMMUNI-
CATIONS:
Commissioner Zelko-Schlueter moved to approve the
minutes of January 25, 2019. Seconded by Commissioner
Roehirg and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galirnba, Hamano,
Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 8
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Hopkins, Saquing, and
Todd - 3
Excused: None.
The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
Communications.
CHR. ADAMS: Moving on to Communications, Communication No. 12.3,
Discussion Protocols for Public Hearings, I would if I may, draw your attention to
the Communication itself. The purpose of this Communication is to let the
Commissioners know and of course the public as well, as we approach the public
hearings which we have tentatively scheduled to be convened between Monday,
March 25th and Friday, April 4th. We are going to be in six different locations
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
and it appeared, it seemed that it might be useful to at least identify how we
would have the hearings run, so that everybody has an idea of what to expect. So,
I would be interested if there are any questions or comments that anybody has,
any modifications that you might have, or anything that we have forgotten to put
in here?
I guess I would say for the record that generally the idea is that obviously we want
to have hearings that are... allow for the public to be heard and for all to have an
equal opportunity to be beard, and for those opportunities to be conducted in a
safe way. As far as Commissioners are concerned, it is our opportunity to listen,
and not necessarily engage in dialogue, we get the chance to engage in dialogue
up on the dais when we are in a regular meeting. This is not a regular meeting.
This is a hearing. I would ask our legal counsel is there anything that we need to
be specifically aware of as we are in a public hearing as opposed to a regular
meeting, that you would like to share with us?
MR. YOSHIMOTO: No. Not at this time. No.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Alright, are there any... yes?
Commissioner Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: So, I understand your purpose in limiting public testimony to
five minutes, but potentially we have multiple, we will have multiple amendments
that are substantial and I think that might be a bit draconian to limit people to five
minutes if they have something that they, you know, really want to say on
multiple amendments. So, yeah, I... and, I have been thinking perhaps we could
limit it to seven or another possibility would be if the Commissioners felt that this
person had important information and should be, that they wanted to hear more,
that we could waive it. So that is basically what I have to say.
CHR. ADAMS: Thanks. Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: I understand Commissioner Galimba's concerns on this one
here. I respectfully disagree because again, basically, I don't want to be... not
being flippant on it, I don't want to be there until two o'clock in the morning. If
people are going on there. People do have the opportunity to submit written
testimony and I think the five minute thing is they can submit their written
testimony, and then they can do the summary, and if they can't do the summary
within five minutes, I think maybe they are rambling. So, that is my personal
opinion.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Any other comments? Commissioner Rice.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MS. RICE: So, if someone is saying things, describing something that we would
like more information about, how do we get that information if we are not
allowed to ask them a question I take it. But it...
CHR. ADAMS: In the course of the hearing itself that would be correct, right? I
would, you know there has been the conversation about do you allow questions
for clarification, part of the question is what is clarification, what becomes
dialogue, I think it would be... I think it would take away, my view, is that it
would take away from the purpose of the public hearing which is rather than to
engage between Commissioners and the public about various views or
perspectives on the matter that the public, or the person providing the testimony
has provided, it's really our opportunity to hear from the testifier.
MS. RICE: Right. I understand.
CHR. ADAMS: If there is more information that you are interested in receiving, I
assume, I guess we could figure out a way to get that information to the testifier
you know, during the meeting. You know. They are not required as I... I believe
that what they provide is, they provide their name, but they are not required to
provide any contact infonnation necessarily. So, we would, if there was a reason
to... for a Commissioner to want to get in touch with somebody, we could. We
are not necessarily going to run straight through. I can't imagine that we would
run straight through, so there will be opportunities for recess and we have the staff
that will be available and so, the simple written word on a note would be another
way to manage that.
MS. RICE: Okay. Right. I mean I, at this moment I can't think of that but even
today 1 had a question which I was not able to ask.
CHR. ADAMS: But we know how to get in touch with that person.
MS. RICE: Correct.
CHR. ADAMS: So, okay. Any other comments? So I guess I would comment
on Commissioner Galimba's points. I think, I think that if 1 was going to say an
additional period of time, you know up to seven minutes or something, that would
be... 1 would be more likely to support something that would be across the board
as opposed to the Commission deciding to on an individual basis or case by case
basis, do some type of waiving of the time limit situation. Because then where do
you stop on that and how... the idea that we are playing favorites and all of those
kinds of things, so five minutes was chosen as an amount of time that seemed
reasonable, but of course we are open to changing that if there is a consensus from
the Commission that we want to make it a little longer, than certainly you are
going to be the ones who are going to be sitting there. I don't mean that as a
threat. I am just saying you are going to be equally engaged in receiving this
feedback as I am. So, are you offering that as a time? It is not an amendment.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
Nope. We are discussing the protocol and this is coming from my position as the
Chair, to set this thing up, but of course as the Commission takes a look at that
time and says "you know that is not enough", we want to provide the opportunity
for a maximum time because obviously not everybody has to speak for the
maximum amount of time but the guess is that many will. And so, the question is,
is that a... is there a consensus that you would like to see a little bit more time
allotted.
Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: I kind of like the, I thought it was six before today, six minutes if
they had more than one item they were going to comment on.
CHR. ADAMS: So last...
MS. RICE: Maybe we could compromise between seven and five with six. If
the, go to... I think if they are only going to comment on one item, it can be less,
but if they are going to comment on more than one then we ought to give them
just a little bit more leeway, would be my suggestion.
CHR. ADAMS: The, so as a comment on that, it is not our intention to have
people come in and necessarily... they will identify what they are going to be
talking about but unlike the statements here, we are not designing the time period
for each of the Charter Amendments right? They all have the opportunity to talk
about one or all or a specific area of the Charter that we haven't even provided a
proposal for right.
MS. RICE: Oh, okay.
CHR. ADAMS: And so, really this allotment of time is so that they can cover all
of the stuff that they would need to cover within that period of time.
MS. RICE: Okay. I got it.
CHR. ADAMS: So, we have a couple of different periods of time, I guess we can
move to six. I am okay with that, how does everybody kind of feel about that? I
am not getting... I am getting one shake and I am getting one nod, and everybody
else is... okay, that is fine. A minute is a minute. We will make that a maximum,
allotted maximum of six minutes and we will go with that. Okay. Any other
comments on the rest of this draconian... ? Okay, so that's Communication, this
is the plan, obviously these protocols will be something that will be worked up. If
there is, as you think about it, my assumption not yet having talked to the staff
about this, is that this would be something that would be provided perhaps during
notice of the times and then of course this would be available at the site, but the
idea would be that this would be made available to the public anyway. And so, if
there is something that you feel strongly about having thought about it, then
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Hawai `i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
please get in touch with the staff so that we can take a look at that okay? Great.
Thank you.
Communication No. 15, is having to do with the articles of the Charter. Any
comments on Communication No. 15? As you know we typically have this in
each of our agendas. Okay. Moving on to Unfinished Business
UNFINISHED The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of
BUSINESS: business, Unfinished Business.
CHR. ADAMS: Item No. 1 is Communication No. 3, Formation of Ad Hoc
Committees, anyone wishing to form an ad hoc committee? Seeing none, moving
on to Communication No. 2, If I may take a brief, I have a brief question for
Shannon. Have we received a note back yet?
MS. MAGNUSON: No.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. So, the reason I hesitate here is I should, we know that...
what we know is that Commissioner Leithead-Todd has several items that are
listed that she has submitted for consideration in this agenda. She has indicated to
Shannon that she hopes to be here by three o'clock. And so, I would take those
out of order and we would move on with the rest of the agenda to be able to
accomplish that. It was my intention that we might consider the amendment that
is going to be associated with number two, but given that she is not here, we
really can't do that. So, I just wanted to let the Commission know that that is
where we kind of are at and so we will proceed forward.
Alright, so Item No. 2, is Communication No. 21.55 the purpose of which is
transmitting Charter Amendment 7, Draft 2 for first reading. Proposal to Amend
Sections 10-15 and 10-16 by Repealing and Replacing Provisions for the Public
Access, Open Space and Natural Resources Preservation Fund and Maintenance
Fund, respectively, as submitted by Commissioner Hamano. And, underneath,
that was postponed at our last regular meeting, January 25th. You will note that
there is a motion on the floor made by Commissioner Hamano and seconded by
Commissioner Adams to pass CA -7, Draft 2 on first reading. I would note that
actually, there is actually an amendment. We stand right now with an amendment
where we have, it is the amendment by Commissioner Todd and seconded by
Commissioner Hopkins, which essentially without going through the entire
amendment, added, changed the amount to two percent for the preservation fund,
maintaining the .25 for the maintenance fund, along with some other items in
there, but that essentially is the amendment. And so, that is, within that
amendment at the moment in the, by the process of reconsideration at the last
meeting. There has been a point of order that has been made by Commissioner
Hamano and that point of order is asking if the amendment is in order since it
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
appears to be as I believe you stated Commissioner Hamano, unproper because of
the nature of the amendment. So, since the motion was made by Commissioner
Todd, and she is not here, I can't ask her if that motion would be withdrawn, the
amendment that is. And so, will need to rule on the point of order. My ruling on
the point of order is that, is that, my ruling on the point of order is that I would
deny it. Is there another motion? Is there a motion now that I have denied that
point of order?
MR. HAMANO: May I object?
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. So, you object to that. You would like to see... is that a
motion?
MR. HAMANO: That is a motion.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second?
MS. RICE: Pll second it just for...
CHR. ADAMS: Alright, so the motion, so there isn't any discussion as I
understand here.
MR. HENRICKS: There is. There can be discussion amongst the
Commissioners.
CHR. ADAMS: So the motion is to... Go ahead. No please.
MR. HENRICKS: Appeal the Chair's ruling on the point of order.
CHR. ADAMS: That's right. And it was made by... motion was made by
Commissioner Hamann and seconded by Commissioner Rice. Commissioner
Hainano, you'd like to speak to your motion?
MR. HAMANO: Yes. Thank you Mr. Chair. You know the reason I make that
motion is because this amendment right, goes to the very heart of the proposed
amendment in the first place right, by the main purpose of CA -7, one of the main
purposes of CA -7 was to lower the amount from two percent to one percent and
now the proposed amendment is putting that back up you know, so it's a
substantive amendment that goes to the very heart of this amendment, of CA -7.
So I don't think that it should be allowed and I would point out though that I
believe Commissioner Leithead-Todd has submitted a different Charter
Amendment that actually incorporates her you know, new proposal as far as
putting it back up. I forget, 1 cannot...
CHR. ADAMS: 16
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MR. HAMANO: 16, yeah, so the way I look at it, we should let CA -7 as
amended stand on its own and not allow this amendment and allow this to go
forward as far as being voted upon and allow the consideration of CA -16 which
has her recommended percentage amount.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Are there any other comments in discussion on this
particular motion? Seeing none, it would be a roll call vote on this particular
motion.
Mr. Yoshimoto.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: So, I just want to make sure, if the Chairman can explain to
the members what a "yes" vote is and what a "no" vote means so we know what
we are voting for, just to be clear.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. I would do that and you will correct me where I am
incorrect. Alright so, let me just bring us back to where we were. So the context
is, is that we have an amendment that was made by Commissioner Todd that
changed some of the... that primarily changed from the one percent in the fund to
two percent, maintaining the .25 percent in the maintenance fund. That we had
voted on that, we reconsidered it, so that that vote never took place for the
purposes of the record. The point of order was made. My ruling was to the point
of order, that it was not a substantive amendment in the sense that it struck at the
heart of CA -7, Draft 2. That ruling is now the ruling that the motion is trying to
overturn. So if you vote "yes" for this motion, you are saying that my ruling is
wrong and in doing that, the amendment fails, is my understanding. The
amendment goes away.
If you vote "no" on the motion, then you are saying that my ruling was correct
and then we are back in discussion mode on the motion that Commissioner Todd
proposed and Commissioner Hopkins seconded. Does everybody got that? (No)
Okay, so a "yes" vote on the motion means that I am wrong and the amendment
goes away. A "no" vote means I am right in my ruling and the amendment is
open for discussion.
MS. RICE: Can I ask a question?
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: So, the amendment that we are talking about is Commissioner
Leithead-Todd's amendment?
CHR. ADAMS: That's correct.
MS. RICE: To increase the amount of money back up to the original.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Within Charter Amendment No. 7, yes.
MS. RICE: Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay?
MS. RICE: Right, and you are saying that that is, that that amendment is okay.
CHR. ADAMS: No, what I am saying is that that amendment is... a "yes" vote
would take that amendment off the table. It goes away.
MS. RICE: Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: A "no" vote means that we would be, we would continue to
discuss that amendment and then ultimately vote on it.
MS. RICE: Got you.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Bergin.
MR. BERGIN: Nope. Oh, I am sorry, I thought it was...
CHR. ADAMS: I thought you had a question. My apologies.
MR. BERGIN: I am sorry.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hamann. Did you have something else?
MR. HAMANO: Oh no, I am sorry.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Alright, so assuming that everybody understands what
we are talking about, what we are doing here, Mr. Henricks if you would call the
roll please.
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Bergin (no), Ms. Galimba (no), Mr. Hamano (yes), Mr.
Hopkins (yes), Ms. Leithead-Todd (absent), Ms. Rice (no), Mr. Roehrig (no), Ms.
Saquing (absent), Ms. Springer (no), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (yes), Chair Adams
(yes). Chair Adams, you have four votes in favor.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
Vote on Motion The motion to appeal the Chair's ruling on Commissioner Hamano's point of
to Appeal the order failed by the following voice vote:
Chair's Ruling on
Commissioner Ayes: Coininissioners, Hamann, Hopkins,
Hamano's Point Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 4
of Order: Noes: Commissioners Bergin, Galirnba, Rice,
Roehrig, and Springer — 5
Absent: Commissioners Saquing and Todd — 2
Excused: None.
RECESS:
RECONVENE:
CHR. ADAMS: So the motion, how many do we have against?
MR. HENRICKS: Five. The motion fails.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay, the motion fails. And so where we stand right now is we
are in discussion on the amendment. If it would be, if it is possible, can we read
the amendment?
MR. HENRICKS: I wasn't prepared. One minute recess?
CHR. ADAMS: One minute recess, without objection.
At 12:18 p.rn., the Chair called for a recess.
The meeting reconvened at 12:32 p.m.
CHR. ADAMS: We are back in session. Mr. Henricks.
MR. HENRICKS: As you can see I have come back empty handed. I do not
have my notes.
CHR. ADAMS: So let's turn to page 51 of the minutes that we all have. Just so
that we know where we are starting from. So you'll notice that about three
quarters of the way down the page, I apologize Mr. Henricks by the way, I could
have just done this.
MR. HENRICKS: No. I should have had it on me.
CHR. ADAMS: The last part of that paragraph where I am speaking, says in
other words it would, this is where it is after certified real property tax revenues,
so after that phrase in CA -7, Draft 2, you take out .75 percent of and say "which
shall be deposited in a fund known as the Public Access, Open Space, Natural
Resources Preservation Fund and an additional .25 percent shall be deposited into
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
a fund to be called the PONC Maintenance Fund." I guess that must be from CA -
7, that is not as helpful either. I want to make sure that we are actually talking
about the right thing. Unfinished Business. Alrighty, here we are.
Alright, so if we go to Old Business, when you go to CA -7, Draft 2, under Section
10-15.
MS. RICE: What page please.
CHR. ADAMS: Page one on the Charter Amendment in Old Business. Charter
Amendment No. CA -7, Draft 2. I apologize for the minute taking and for the
public. 10-15 (a) currently says "In adopting each fiscal year's budget and capital
program, the council shall appropriate a minimum of one percent of certified real
property tax revenues, 0.75% of which shall be deposited in a fund known as the
public access, open space, and natural resources preservation fund and the
remaining 0.25% of which shall be deposited into a fund to be called the public
access, open space, and natural resources maintenance fund.
The council may by a two-thirds vote suspend this appropriation requirement
when the director of finance determines in writing that the suspension of this
appropriation is necessary to prevent a reduction in the level of public services."
That is what is in 10-15 (a) in CA -7, Draft 2.
Commissioner Todd's amendment took away the second paragraph there, so the
paragraph that says "The council may by a two-thirds vote suspend..." that whole
paragraph, those lines disappear. And then in (a), in the paragraph above, the way
it is phrased now it says "in adopting each fiscal year's"... the way it is phrased in
the amendment... "In adopting each fiscal year's budget and capital program, the
council shall appropriate a minimum of two percent of certified real property tax
revenues, which shall be deposited in a fund known as the public access, open
space, and natural resources preservation fund and an additional 0.25% shall be
deposited into a fund to be called the PONC maintenance fund." That is the
amendment. That's the amendment that we are voting on. Is there any discussion
on that amendment? Commissioner...
MR. ROEHRIG: I am lost. The amendment is doing what with the percentage?
Point seven five...
CHR. ADAMS: So one moment. Right, so the .75 percent that is listed in
Charter Amendment No. 7, Draft 2, disappears, that whole thing goes away.
MR. ROEHRIG: So that takes us to the two percent.
CHR. ADAMS: That's correct and also the .25 percent for the maintenance fund.
MR. ROEHRIG: Okay. Thank you.
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Okay.
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Chair...
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hamann
CHR. ADAMS: I am sorry. Mr. Henricks.
MR. HENRICKS: That was well and good but I think just if I could, if I could
just clarify what I have here too.
CHR. ADAMS: Sure.
MR. HENRICKS: Kind of rekindled my notes if you will. So, just for sake of
discussion, to simplify without worrying about too many of the extraneous words,
the acquisition fund would be two percent, the maintenance fund would be .25%,
and the paragraph about suspension of the fund is repealed entirely, and that is the
amendment in its heart. Correct?
CHR. ADAMS: That's correct.
MR. HENRICKS: Okay, thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Harnano.
MR. HAMANO: Thank you Chair Adams. You know one of the main purposes
behind the CA -7 as amended was to lower the mandated percentage rate that goes
into the PONC fund from two percent to a total of one percent. I would
respectfully remind my fellow Commissioners that we passed for initial approval
CA -7 as amended, which among other things lowered the PONC percentage rate.
Now many members of the Commission made clear that while they personally did
not want the PONC percentage rate lowered, that they still would vote in favor of
CA -7 as amended to allow the voters of the County of Hawai`i to decide for
themselves. Now this new amendment to CA -7 would put back the same PONC
percentage rate that we now have. That would not allow the voters to decide you
know, whether a lower amount is their wish. Now, I agree with the testimony
which expounds on the benefits of the PONC program that affords the people in
the County of Hawaii and I agree that we should do whatever we can to
strengthen the PONC program. However, while the PONC fund set aside of two
percent or over six million dollars is relatively small to all of the other budgetary
needs of the County, you know, this mandatory set aside is guaranteeing a budget
amount for a special interest project without any Council input or debate when
there are budgetary needs in the County having far greater priority. An over six
million dollar guarantee ties the hands of the County Council where they may
have to cut budgets for road work, public safety, Puna disaster relief, and the
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
many other community service organizations that depend on County funding. To
say that this two percent amount which will if in the Charter would be a
mandatory budget amount, that this would not negatively affect other higher
priority County programs would be wrong.
It is the County Council that is charged with prioritizing where County funds
should be spent, where they have debate and public input, and the right of the
public to vote members out should they disagree with budgetary policies. The
Council needs the flexibility to determine budgetary needs on a yearly basis
without their hands being tied by a mandatory budget set aside that is nowhere
else in the Charter. So, the bottom line I believe, is really while we have a
spirited debate about how much is too much for the mandatory PONC fund, we
nevertheless should allow the voters to decide this Charter question. I ask that we
not take away the public's right to vote on this very important Charter
Amendment.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: Thank you. After the last meeting we had and listening to Toni
Withington and Mr. Fijimna from North Kohala, it took me back 35, 40 years after
we moved here from... I moved here from Honolulu, and we used to go hike
along the coastline there, camp, hotels weren't there except Mauna Kea, now the
Mauna Lani we go camping at Mauna Lani before there was any hotel there.
Now you can't even hike along the coastline. I would go surfing with my boys
there in front of the Mauna Lani and the security would come and kick us out of
the water. So, I realize yes, it is conservation, but as someone commented here,
you can do away with that and put hotels up and keep people away from the ocean
period, or along the coastline, so although 1 don't think you can make this
amendment because I think it is against the rules of Robert's Rules of Order, I
agree to leave the PONC fund the way it was at two percent. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: 1 will vote yes on this amendment which is Commissioner Leithead-
Todd's amendment to increase the amount of money back up, but in my opinion it
is putting a patch on CA -7 which is, as Commissioner Hamano has said, was not
the intent of it. 1 think that we have a perfectly good piece of amendment in CA -9
and CA -7 should probably should stand on its own two feet at the original amount
of money that was put in it. But, as 1 say, I will vote for this amendment. Thank
you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Hopkins did you have a previous
comment?
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MR. HOPKINS: Just a clarification please. There was another amendment and I
am not sure, did it disappear or not, at the top of page 55, because is that one still
in there?
CHR. ADAMS: It is. That was voted on and we still have that. It's... for the
purposes of the correct naming of this Charter Amendment, I believe we are
actually at CA -7, Draft 3, but we have not, that draft is not available to us at the
moment, and that includes the amendment that you made and was passed last
meeting.
MR. HOPKINS: So that is what... we are voting on the whole package now?
CHR. ADAMS: No, the vote here is on Commissioner- Todd's amendment to
have it be a two percent of the certified real property taxes into the PONC fund
and the .75%, or the .25% into the maintenance fund, and removing the paragraph
that is currently in Section (a) of the Charter Amendment 7.
MR. HOPKINS: Thank you for the clarification.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Any other comments?
Commissioner Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: So basically I am just saying that I agree with Commissioner
Rice. I would be voting on the amendment but I feel that it is, it wasn't the intent
of the original, of CA -7. So I think it is better to, in sort of recognizing that
intent, I would vote against the CA -7.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Any other comments or discussion? Alright, let's
vote on the arnendrnent. Do I need to go through the amendment again? Do we
understand what we are voting on here when we are voting on...
Okay, so I am going to summarize the amendment as opposed to reading it
exactly. But the arnendrnent is amending Charter Amendment No. 7, Draft 2,
since we don't have three in front of us, but we understand that Charter
Amendment No. 7 has been amended with Commissioner Hopkin's amendment
last meeting. The amendment that we are voting on amends the first paragraph in
section (a) to require a minimum, or what it says is that the, the heck with it, what
it says is that in adopting each fiscal year's budget and capital program, the
council shall appropriate a minimum of two percent of certified real property tax
revenues. It then takes out the .75% of which shall be deposited into a fund
known as the Public Access, Open Space and Natural Resources Preservation
Fund, and instead adds the following: which shall be deposited in a fund knows
as the PONC preservation fund and an additional .25% shall be deposited into a
fund called the PONC maintenance fund. So that is what we are voting on. Two
percent for the preservation fund, .25% for the maintenance fund, and removing
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
the Council's two-thirds vote to suspend the appropriation requirement that is the
second paragraph in Section (a). That would be deleted. So, that is the
amendment that is before us. Everybody got is? Alright. Mr. Henricks, please
roll call vote.
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Bergin (no), Ms. Galirnba (yes), Mr. Hainan (no), Mr.
Hopkins (yes), Ms. Leithead-Todd (absent), Ms. Rice (yes), Mr. Roehrig (yes),
Ms. Saquing (absent), Ms. Springer (yes), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (no), Chair Adams
(no). Chair Adams you have five votes in favor.
Vote on Motion The motion to amend CA -7, Draft 2 failed by the following voice vote:
To Amend
CA -7, Draft 2 Ayes: Commissioners Galimba, Hopkins, Rice,
(Failed): Roehrig, and Springer — 5
Noes: Commissioners Bergin, Hamann,
Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams and— 4
Absent: Commissioners Saquing and Todd - 2
Excused: None.
RECESS:
RECONVENE:
CHR. ADAMS: The motion as I understand it does not pass for lack of six votes
being required?
MR. HENRICKS: Quick recess. I would like to consult with Mr. Yoshimoto.
CHR. ADAMS: Brief recess.
At 12:18 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
The meeting reconvened at 12:32 pan.
CHR. ADAMS: Mr. Henricks, Mr. Yoshimoto, have you come to an agreement?
MR. HENRICKS: Yes, this was more than a procedural motion. It is a matter of
substance, therefore it would have required six affirmative votes, so the motion
fails to amend.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Alright. Motion fails. So where we are now is that
we are back in the regular motion which was made by Commissioner Hamann to
pass CA -7, Draft 2 as amended, which includes Commissioner Hopkin's
amendment on first reading. Is there discussion on this amendment, or on this
motion?
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
Commissioner Ha;nano.
MR. HAMANO: Thank you Chair Adams. Again, I would refer to Director
Yee's comments made to our Commission, that while we did have spirited
positive debate, that did not want to lower the PONC mandatory amount from two
percent to one percent, I think there is a vast, at least equally silent majority that
you know, would want, you know, fiscal responsibility to be placed with the
County Council and the you know, Finance Director, and you know, to have them
prioritize and decide you know, what is the correct amount. Now it still you
know, authorizes a mandatory one percent amount which is you know, about three
million dollars, so you know again, since the amount right now is two percent and
the proposal here is to lower it to one percent, again I say we will allow this to go
forward and we allow the public to decide you know, whether they wish to
maintain the two percent or whether they wish to lower it to one percent.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Rice,
MS. RICE: I will vote no on CA -7, Draft 2 because in my opinion it shortchanges
our children and our grandchildren by severely decreasing our opportunity to keep
and restore our island's irreplaceable lands, and we have a very complete and
good piece of amendment in CA -9.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Galirnba.
MS. GALIMBA: So I also will be voting no. No surprise there, but I just wanted
to make a few comments. One of them of course is to note that we got quite a few
emails from students over the last few days and I have to admit like I was crying
because it was so beautiful to have those kids having that kind of connection to
their island, their `aina and their place. It is like an investment you know, to have
that kind of care for the environment and we need that so badly because we are
going to places where that is just going to priceless so to me this fund is very well
spent, it is a huge investment on things that you can't see but are just priceless and
I also wanted to recall something that a testifier, Gail Byrne mentioned, which
was the rural economic development that this fund creates, especially in the rural
areas outside of Hilo, like Ka`u, it is just, it is huge to have this fund to help our
communities. That's all.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: Do I have to incorporate what I already said? I don't want to
repeat it.
CHR. ADAMS: For the record it is incorporated.
MR. ROEHRIG: Thank you.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Bergin.
MR. BERGIN: If it is possible, Kit it was the ending of your statement that I did
miss. I got the part about trekking along the ocean there (inaudible), but your
finishing statement, I got a little distracted. Could you...
MR. ROEHRIG: Which part? I don't know, when we got kicked out of the water
for surfing?
MR. BERGIN: No, it was actually your summary line.
MR. ROEHRIG: You're asking me to remember what I said...
MS. GALIMBA: It will be in the minutes.
MR, BERGIN: Yeah, you know, I think I know what you said, but I didn't want
to paraphrase or say it incorrectly, so I am going to step back from that. The point
that I am at is this, Commissioner Hamano speaks to reality and the ability of our
County leadership to be able to have the flexibility to respond to the matter of fact
and frank situation that this island is in financially, and I am not exaggerating, I
am not getting emotional, but a day doesn't go by where I don't say a prayer for
everybody in Puna for what they have been through. We have got... I put myself
in their position of no longer having a home or even the access to what was my
home. These are extraordinary times. In extraordinary times we have to take an
extraordinary degree of flexibility in how we look at how our County will weather
this storm. Granted the State, granted the Federal, this is huge. On the other
hand, I will speak to the fact that we have had many, many points of testimony
and I made it a habit to read them. Unfortunately many of them were repetitive
and they kept with the same misspelling mistakes so I carried on with the
realization that that was just a copy of it. Nevertheless, people took the time to
submit it. But until Fred Cachola came along, for the first time did we ever hear
someone point to the very, very ancient findings of old Hawai`i and how badly
they need to be preserved, and it is not just true of North Kohala, it is true of all of
the islands. And this opportunity would be one that would be empowered to
focus on preservation of many of those artifacts and findings. That is the first I
heard of this PONC dedication being toward specific cultural target areas and I
was very moved by that. At the end of the day, I want to keep listening. I am not
ready to make a decision. I am troubled between both sides of the affair. The
fiscal responsibility of our County leadership and the fact that PONC is
motherhood and apple pie. We all want that. Can our County continue to help
repair the position we are in without some greater degree of financial flexibility?
Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins.
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -8 February S, 2019
MR. HOPKINS: I will be voting no on this one. I respect the will of the people
that has been demonstrated numerous tunes already at the ballot box. The
assumption that the only way the County can respond to financial emergencies is
to raid the PONC fund, I find basically ridiculous. We have so many other areas
of the County that in my opinion are badly managed. We pay way too much for
certain other things that the County cannot find even one percent of their budget
in savings in other parts of the County, instead we have to go raid PONC. Like I
said, I find it to be ridiculous and I do understand and I appreciate all the work
that the other Commissioners who proposed this, Commissioner Hamano and the
other ones on this one here, I think from my personal viewpoint, gentlemen, you
were fed a bill of goods by the Mayor and I strongly disagree with that. And so
again, I am going to be voting no against this.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Let me make a few comments. I think that
Commissioner Bergin probably stated as well as anybody has kind of how I am
feeling about this Charter Amendment at the moment. But I have a few other
thoughts in my, and perspectives on this that haven't been necessarily been stated,
but perhaps other Commissioners have as well. When I accepted the appointment
to this particular Commission, I saw it as an opportunity to review our foundation
document which is something that we do on a, you know, decade basis. And to
do it in a way as I think I mentioned at our first meeting, that allows us to look out
into the future, so that is something that Councils are supposed to look into the
future, Mayors are supposed to look into the future, I think that Planning Director
Yee you know, identified that and we know that members of the public are doing
that as well. But we have the mission to study government operations and to do it
with an eye to where we think this County will be, and this island will be, and this
State will be you know down the line and to try and provide that organizational
infrastructure, which is what this document is to do that.
So I have a natural, there is a natural proclivity I have for allowing the electors in
our County to have the power and because the Council members are the ones that
are their representatives, I would like to try and provide those folks with as much
of the power as they should have. So I like to see a Charter that is succinct, that is
streamlined, that then allows the Council to do what it needs to do in providing
policy on a daily basis and on a monthly and yearly basis. At the same time,
Charters are supposed to be setting that structure. So where do I, so where do I fit
this? Where do I say the importance, cause nobody denies, I think it is important
to say, nobody denies the importance of providing open space, providing
preservation services for the environment, for the lands that are here on this
island. I have not heard, I have had plenty of people say to me you know, "we
don't like the idea that there is all this money that the Charter is requiring be put
into this fund." And yet at the same time they are saying "but make sure, you
understand I completely agree with the idea that we need to be protecting our
land." It is a very interesting dichotomy of conversations that we hear. Nobody
is saying that that is not a priority. The question is where does it fit in all of the
priorities that we have? And so, if we put it into the Charter, we are saying, and
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
by "we" I mean the voters are saying that we want to take it out of the hands of
our elected representatives. It doesn't mean they don't trust them. It means that it
is important enough that that becomes one of those things that, it is just one of
those priorities that we are going to, that that is going to be more important than
anything else that we might come up with, or at least on an equal measure with
any of the other priorities that we have listed in the Charter. And the Council
can't do anything about it. And so, I have not yet come to a place in my mind, a
sense in my mind where I am sure of that. I know that there are many things that
can happen. Heck, we of course have seen that just in the last eight months,
where things can happen, and we are asking our public servants to take care of
those things for us and in partnership with us. So, all of that is to say that I don't
know where I am at because I think there is a variety of things that are important
to me when I am considering this and as a result, I won't necessarily go as far
probably as Commissioner Hamano in saying that it needs to be put before the
voters, but I think I will say that I would like to hear in the public hearings around
the island, what people think about the variety of options that we have before us,
and so that will be, that will be my view on how that kind of works. I mean
Commissioner Hamano is right. We have other Charter Amendments, other
proposals that are going to come up in front of us, and so... summarize Adams, I
think that you know, how those all come out, it is going to be important to, I'd
like to hear how folks feel about those as well as this particular amendment.
Commissioner Zelko.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thank you. You know as I was preparing for the
meeting today and I was looking back over the minutes and thinking about this
specific amendment and really to add to what Commissioner Bergin said, I do
think there is a reality and I think we face it in our own homes. You know, I was
having lunch with some girlfriends and we were talking about college funds for
our children and you know, how much maybe the financial advisors tell us to put
in and the reality is, I would like to put more in for their futures because I think
education is so important, but I have a reality and it is my budget and you know
things happen. My daughter had to have surgery last year and it does, it affects
the budget and I do think when there are emergencies and not even in times of
emergencies, but just the reality of the world that we are living in now, because
one of my concerns is safety in this community. I grew up in Hilo, it is not the
Hilo that I remember and so, I am conflicted because I, it is just I am conflicted. I
do think there is a reality that we have to live in and you know, preserving open
spaces is very important to me. I plan on living out my life here, I would like my
children to live out theirs, so I just wanted to add that.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. If there is no other discussion, then let's have a roll
call vote on the motion to pass CA -7, Draft 2 as amended on first reading.
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Bergin (yes), Ms. Galimba (no), Mr. Hamann (yes), Mr.
Hopkins (no), Ms. Leithead-Todd (absent), Ms. Rice (no), Mr. Roehrig (no), Ms.
Saquing (absent), Ms. Springer (no), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (yes), Chair Adams
(yes).
Chair Adams you have four votes in favor.
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -7, Draft 2 on first reading failed by the following voice
To Approve vote:
CA -7, Draft 2
(Failed): Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hamann,
Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 4
Noes: Commissioners Galimba, Hopkins, Rice,
Roehrig, and Springer — 5
Absent: Commissioners Saquing and Todd 2
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: The motion fails for lack of a majority.
MR. ROEHRIG: What was the vote one more time?
CHR. ADAMS: The vote would have been four to five.
MR. HENRICKS: Correct, with two absent.
CHR. ADAMS: And we required six to...
MR. HENRICKS: Six to pass it on first reading.
CHR. ADAMS: Pass it on first reading. Alright, so we move on to Item No. 3,
do I need to say anything else? I don't think so. Item No. 3, Communication No.
23.1, which Transmits Charter Amendment No. 8 for First Reading, Proposal to
Amend Section 3-2 to Provide that the Terns of Council Members be Changed
from Four Consecutive Two -Year Terms to Two Consecutive Four -Year Terns,
as submitted by Commissioner Rice. That was proposed, this particular
communication and Charter Arnendment was postponed January 25, 2019. I
would entertain a motion to pass CA -8 on first reading.
MS. RICE: So moved.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second?
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Second.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Moved by Commissioner Rice, seconded by Commissioner
Zelko, open for discussion.
Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: I wrote up a little thing because I was trying to think what was
happening with our testimony which has been against the four year and I was
really quite surprised to tell you the truth, and saddened at the lack of confidence
our electorate in our County, those who have testified, seem to have in the people
that they elect to the County Council. The testimony we have received focuses on
their ability to get rid of Council members after a two-year term. This negative
perception of people who live and work in Hawai`i County and run for office, is
an extremely pessimistic way to view our friends and neighbors who agree to
serve us as members of the Council. A Council member who is not serving his or
her constituency well could be removed now during his or her term if CA -12
passes, which was a request from the Council to be able to remove someone
without having to impeach him or her.
CA -12 provides the control for which the electorate seems to be looking. A four-
year tern would encourage longer term planning by the Council on such matters
as the long overdue revision of the County Zoning Code which is so important
now that we are facing climate change and the need to address this in how we
develop our island communities. We will benefit greatly by giving our Council
members more time to concentrate on improving our County rather than raising
money planning for and managing their own re-election campaigns. 1 would hope
that we could vote to move this to public hearing so we can find out if there are
island residents who favor a four-year term and if not made their opinions known
yet.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Rice. Is there other discussion on
this?
Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: I was on the subcommittee, the ad hoc committee with
Commissioner Rice and Bobby Jean, and Billy, you were on it? And, I was on
the... what do you want to call it? I disagreed with the committee's
recommendation. Basically as Commissioner Rice says, yes, I guess I do have a
negative viewpoint about a number, too many of our Council people and the
things... which is unfortunate, which is an unfortunate statement on that and...
but, the main thing that I personally like about the two-year teens is everybody
says it is horrible that we have to go out there and they have to spend time out in
the community campaigning. My personal feeling is that campaigning is an
important thing. It may be the only time they actually go out into the community.
And I can talk about, I will not name names on the ones, but the only time I have
ever seen certain Council people in my community is when they are out
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
campaigning because the rest of the time they never show up in our areas. So, I
actually look at campaigning and them having to spend the time is a good, and so
I will be personally voting against this one. I think we should stay with two-year
terms. The people have said this. Again, we have gone back and forth on this one
multiple times over the 30 years that I have been here. Let's stick with the two-
year terns.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Bergin.
MR. BERGIN: You know, there's 11 of us and I think what is remarkable is the
fact that there is 11 different consciences, and I love watching the fact that we
never go entirely one way or the other. There is always counterpoints to points,
so I will make a counterpoint to... here's the deal. If you join a commission, not
this one because it is such a short-lived one, but if you are on a typical County, or
State, or Federal commission, say of four years, and I admittedly am a slow
learner, it takes me about two full years before I get a real grasp on the manner in
which you create progress or understand progress, and for those young and new
legislators that join the County that barely have that grasp and time is up again,
and they may not be reelected, but they have just become to a point of achieving
the grasp that they need to have to be effective, but more than that I look at the
decades that have passed and the Councilers that we have had of the different
districts of the island, of this Big Island. There are so few that I felt were
unworthy of office. That some of them were very quiet, very deliberate, and very
studied people that served, and we probably can't even remember their names.
But, it is those same people that do take the two years to go ahead and cover the
subject matter to a point of being able to be good judges and the fact that the
proportion of Council members that we would really like to see ejected even
before two years, is so small. As opposed to those people that over the last 40 or
50 years have served so very, very, well quietly. And for that reason, I stick with
Sally's opinion. If we want people to be interested in becoming politically active
to help our County move forward, that is one thing that we could do to give them
some degree of forward continuity. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Any other discussion?
Commissioner Zelko.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: You know I am also very supportive of the four-
year term. I appreciate what Commissioner Hopkins said about the campaigning.
I think you know, my concern is when somebody gets elected, that they are able
to make sometimes very, I mean, very tough decisions. And I think if in the back
of your mind you are, you are thinking about your election the following year, it
is going to make it tougher to make those decisions. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Any other discussion? I would note, go ahead Mr. Henricks.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MR. HENRICKS: No, please.
CHR. ADAMS: I would note that we also have a Communication No. 23.2 and
Communication No. 23.2 identifies a potential amendment for Section 2. If there
is a desire to include that, now would be the time.
MS. RICE: Where is that?
CHR. ADAMS: This one, right here. Where you identified all of the...
MS. RICE: Is this mine?
CHR. ADAMS: Yes.
MS. RICE: Oh yeah, okay. Sorry. Right.
CHR. ADAMS: So...
MS. RICE: I thought this was presented before.
CHR. ADAMS: Nope. So we are currently in, we have a motion right now that
we have had discussion on regarding Charter Amendment No. 8, and the
amendment, that Charter Amendment's proposal only deals with Section No. 3-2
and the changes are the terns of the Council members shall be four years as
opposed to two, and the terms of the Council members shall not exceed two
consecutive four-year terms as opposed to the current phrasing.
Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: Sony, I woke up. Yes. In addition we had discussed how these
Council members would be elected going from two years to four years and this
amendment which I assume everybody has, explains how that is done. If you
would like me to read it, do you want me to read it or...
CHR. ADAMS: Actually I think we probably... actually what we need is we
need a motion to amend Charter Amendment No. 8. Now the question that I have
for, if I may, the question I have for Mr. Henricks is can the maker of the motion
amend her own motion? Okay. So if you would like us to consider this
amendment, then you can make the motion to amend your current...
MS. RICE: Amendment.
CHR. ADAMS: Right. Proposal.
MS. RICE: Okay. So, first of all, we have a proposal right?
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: You have Proposal CA -8, this particular document offers...
MS. RICE: How to...
CHR. ADAMS: Offers an amendment to that.
MS. RICE: Okay. Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: So do you propose an amendment?
MS. RICE: I do. I propose an amendment to CA -8.
CHR. ADAMS: Which consists of Communication No. 23.2.
MS. RICE: Correct. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second?
MS. GALIMBA: Second.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba seconds it. Alright, discussion.
Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: Okay, this amendment with... Jon Henricks very good help, works
out how we would elect the Council members starting with the four-year term.
The four-year term if it passed would be on the ballot in 2020, so the first election
for a four-year Council term would be 2022. If you look at the proposal, it is (a)
is how it starts there. The transition starts at twelve o'clock on December the 5th,
2022, so the first, the Council member elected in 2014, 2016, 2018, 2020 for
special elections or second special elections would not be eligible for reelection in
2022 because they would have already served their eight years. We are not
changing the serving eight years period. The term limit remains the same.
So then a Council member elected in 2016, 2018, and 2020 first and second
special elections who is reelected in either the first special or second special
election of 2022, would serve for two years and shall not be eligible for reelection
in 2024. An election for the affected Council district seat shall be called in 2024
and the person duly elected shall serve a four-year term. The (d) a Council
member elected in 2018 in 2020 first and second special elections who is
reelected in either the first special or the second special election of 2022 shall
serve for four years and shall not be eligible for reelection in 2026. It gets a little
complicated.
Okay, then as we move along, a Council member elected in either the first or
second special elections of 2020, who is reelected in the first or second special
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
election of 2022 shall serve four years and shall be eligible for reelection in 2026.
If the incuinbent Council member is reelected in 2026, the Council member shall
serve for two years and shall not be eligible for reelection in 2028. An election
for the affected Council district seat shall be called in 2028 and the person duly
elected shall serve a four-year term after which we are straightened out from all of
this having to transition. And it is a little complicated but actually if you take the
time to read it carefully and you think about it, it is very nicely done. And if you
are mathematically inclined you can probably see it right away.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Conunissioner Rice. So I would just make the
comment that the motion indicates that this is within Section No. 16, within
Article No. 16, Article 16 is the transitional article within the Charter and so these
would be transitional provisions that would be indicated in there. This, this
particular phrasing does not show up in Section No. 3-2. It shows up in Article
16, the transitional, just to make sure we are clear. Any other discussion?
Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: Question, is this transition standing independently of the other
Charter Amendment saying we are going to four years?
CHR. ADAMS: This is an amendment to Charter Amendment 8. So, this
amendment...
MR. HOPKINS: So they are combined together?
CHR. ADAMS: That's correct.
MR. HOPKINS: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Assuming that this is voted on and passes as an amendment.
MS. RICE: It's the implementation correct? Of...
CHR. ADAMS: This would be an implementation...
MS. RICE: Transition.
CHR. ADAMS: if it passes.
MS. RICE: Right.
CHR. ADAMS: Right. I am hearing... seeing no other discussion, let us vote on
the amendment that is on the table amending Charter Amendment No. 8. We will
do this by voice vote. All in favor of the amendment please signify by saying
"aye" Any opposed? "naye".
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
Vote passes 8-1, with Commissioner Hopkins the "naye" vote and Commissioner
Saquing and Commissioner Leithead-Todd excused.
Vote on Motion The motion to amend CA -8 was carried by the following voice vote:
To Amend CA -8
(Approved): Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamann,
Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams --- 8
Noes: Commissioner Hopkins - 1
Absent: Commissioners Saquing and Todd - 2
Excused: None.
Alright, we are back to Charter Amendment No. 8 as amended. Is there
discussion on Charter Amendment No. 8? Seeing no further discussion on
Charter Amendment No. 8, I would like to call for a roll call vote. Again, I would
remind the Commissioners that an "aye" vote on this particular amendment is to
send it to the next agenda, so this is an initial, am I correct on that? Yes, this is, oh
no, this is first reading.
MR. HENRICKS: First reading, so it would be held for public hearing.
CHR. ADAMS: It would be held for public hearing and the, and that the current
amendment that we have, this particular Charter Amendment now includes the
transitional provisions. Okay.
Mr. Henricks.
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Bergin (aye), Ms. Galimba (no), Mr. Harnano (aye), Mr.
Hopkins(no), Ms. Leithead-Todd (absent), Ms. Rice (aye), Mr. Roehrig (no), Ms.
Saquing (absent), Ms. Springer (aye), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (aye), Chair Adams
(aye).
Chair Adams you have six votes in favor.
CHR. ADAMS: The motion passes and sends Charter Amendment No. 8 as
amended to the bin for public hearings.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -8, as amended, on first reading was carried by the
To Approve following voice vote:
CA -8, Draft 2
(Approved): Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hamano, Rice,
Springer, Zelko-Schlueter, and
Chair Adams — 6
Noes: Commissioners Galimba, Hopkins, and
Roehrig — 3
Absent: Commissioners Saquing and Todd — 2
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: Moving on to Item No. 4, how are we all doing? Good? Alright.
Of course.
Communication No. 24.38 transmitting Charter Amendment No. 9, Draft 2 for
first reading, a proposal to amend Section 10-15, to provide that funds from the
Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund be used to
fund a staff position dedicated to administering the visions of Sections 10-15 and
Section 10-16 as submitted by Commissioner Galimba. This previously was
postponed at our January 25th meeting. I would entertain a motion to transmit, to
approve transmitting CA -9, Draft 2 for first reading.
It has been moved by Commissioner Galimba and seconded by Commissioner
Zelko. Commissioner Galimba do you have any comment or discussion?
MS. GALIMBA: Just quickly, as many people have testified, this amendment,
this proposal will strengthen the functionality of the PONC fund by providing
dedicated staffing.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: A lot has been written and testified in support of CA -9. In addition, I
would like to mention two important parts of this Charter Amendment that need
to be highlighted because of their extreme importance to us now and going
forward into the future. Two types of areas that can be purchased are agricultural
lands and watershed lands. As you are probably aware, we have lost a
considerable amount of agricultural lands to development and at this time our
State supplies only 15 to 20 percent of the food we consume. If we had a
transportation disaster, our State with all of its tourists, would have about two
weeks of food. This preservation fund allows us to preserve and even increase
our agricultural lands which is a necessity for our future wellbeing. The other
area is the watershed lands to preserve water quality and water supply. Again,
this land is required. If we are to thrive on this island in the future. These two
areas aren't just nice to have, they are essential to our survival. Jane Goodall at
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the Dallas World Economic forum two weeks ago, said it very simply "we depend
on the environment."
One more item is the perpetuity clause. In my opinion and based on some of, a
lot of the testimony, we are just kidding ourselves if we think we will be able to
obtain the substantial matching funds we need to subsidize our own funding
without the perpetuity clause. Administrations and political philosophies change
every eight years or less, so there is no guarantee that there will be a consistent
program to keep these irreplaceable lands without the perpetuity clause and there
are very few outside funding sources that will give money if there is a chance the
lands will not be retained in perpetuity. I will be voting in favor of CA -9.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Commissioner Rice. Any other discussion?
Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: May I ask Commissioner Rice where does it talk in this
document about agriculture? Because I read it here and I don't see agriculture in
it.
MS. RICE: It is listed as, here, right here, (d), and (e)...
MR. HOPKINS: Oh, agricultural lands, preservation... okay. Okay, thank you
for that one. If I can continue my thing, the, I will be voting against this one
based on the comments that we got from, I am not sure which one of the directors,
that this amendment is fatally flawed in the way that the in terms of hiring and
how the position was corning up. I think it was the planning director, it was not
planning, the finance director I think made a comment on it regarding that in an
earlier communication. So, I think, I agree that we need to put money in there
and I agree that we need to hire somebody on it, but if we have already got at this
early stage, you know one of the directors saying you have a major problem with
the way that it is currently drafted, I think we need to fix it if that is going to
happen. And I think that we have a better way of doing that with CA -16 that is
corning up by director, which will be coming up hopefully when Commissioner
Leithead-Todd gets here. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Bergin, did you have a comment?
MR. BERGIN: I think Commissioner Galimba had.
MS. GALIMBA: Oh, go ahead.
MR. BERGIN: Again a counterpoint Sally. In your career, your professional
career, you have a huge stake in progress in agriculture. You are noted for that
and you of course are aware that the lands of Kahuku are no longer in agriculture.
I point to a parallel to that where 24,000 acres of the great division of Parker
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
Ranch Keeaumoku is gone forever due to military usage, so a lot of the
displacement of agriculture is not necessarily development. It is other factors and
they are taking huge swaths of land and it is wonderful to be preserving and
conserving these lands, but on the other hand we have to be frank and honest in
accepting the fact that these were taken out of agriculture by means other than
agriculture. There are no homes on them, but there are no cows. If you take those
two sections alone, you displace probably sixty -five -hundred momma cows
permanent, no home left. So, I think we have to accept some degree of
responsibility for the goodness that we want, we do make a sacrifice, agriculture.
Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: So, I, this is in response to Commissioner Hopkins point and
what you are saying is based on the language that cun-ently exists, you would vote
against it, it is not about the intent, correct? So, I don't have the language that
Director Sako provided in front of me, but I felt that it caught or captured the
essence of what was trying to be achieved in this. So, I would be willing to
amend this to use her language, especially if you felt that you could support it
given that. So, I will make a motion. If we could get that read, that would be
great.
CHR. ADAMS: Do you have the Director of Finance's Communication on this
particular matter available?
MR. HENRICKS: If I may Chair Adams?
CHR. ADAMS: Yes, Mr. Henricks.
MR. HENRICKS: It's essentially the same wording as what Mr. Hopkins had
offered as an amendment to CA -7, Draft 2 and we would just truncate it because
there are opening remarks that say in the beginning of subsection C, monies in
this fund shall be used solely to, so this would be a new item three that would then
read "pay for the salary, wages, and benefits of staff dedicated to advancing the
activities contained within this section."
CHR. ADAMS: I am assuming that this is your motion.
MS. GALIMBA: Yes.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second?
MR. HOPKINS: Second.
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Galitnba and seconded by
Commissioner Hopkins to amend Charter Amendment No. 9, Draft 2. I am kind
of lost with this, but you were able to read that, so can we hear...
MR. HENRICKS: Sure. Yes. I will.
CHR. ADAMS: Can we hear this amendment again?
MR. HENRICKS: So the amendment would essentially strike what is currently
drafted in CA -9, Draft 2 and replace entirely, it would read in full, using the first
part of subsection C, "Monies in this fund shall be solely to" and then a new Item
three, that would read "pay for the salary, wages, and benefits of staff dedicated to
advancing the activities contained within this section."
CHR. ADAMS: Okay.
MS. RICE: Can I ask a question?
CHR. ADAMS: For clarification?
MS. RICE: Yes.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: Could you tell us where, which item would be removed?
CHR. ADAMS: This one. So this right here is the current, that's the, that is what
is on there and that would be ...
MS. RICE: Okay, three, right there.
CHR. ADAMS: That, the line section would be replaced by Commissioner
Galimba's amendment.
MS. RICE: Okay, so all of three would be replaced?
MR. HENRICKS: Correct.
CHR. ADAMS: That's what the amendment does. It is a replacement
amendment.
MS. RICE: Could we have 30 seconds to take a look at this?
CHR. ADAMS: She wants to take...
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MR. HENRICKS: Oh no, I am sorry, I understand, who was the second on this
motion?
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Galimba, would you like to speak to your
amendment?
MS. GALIMBA: Oh sorry...
CHR. ADAMS: No, no, it's your amendment, would you like to speak to it?
MS. GALIMBA: Well, I am a person of few words.
MR. HENRICKS: Can you please turn on your microphone?
CHR. ADAMS: It is always good to have a mic though.
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you.
MS. GALIMBA: So its ah, it will allow for the staffing of the PONC fund with a
staff that will be dedicated only to supporting the activities of the PONC fund and
the maintenance fund and...
MR. HENRICKS: Commissioner Galimba, before you proceed, I think that we
would want to modify your amendment because currently it reads "within this
Section", we would need to add the words "and Section 10-16 of this Charter."
MS. GALIMBA: Right. Right. Right.
MR. HENRICKS: So if we could just...
MS. GALIMBA: Yes.
MR. HENRICKS: Agree to modify your amendment...
MS. GALIMBA: Yes.
CHR. ADAMS: Is the second okay with that as well?
MR. HOPKINS: Sure.
MR. HENRICKS: So, just reading that through again, "pay for the salary, wages,
and benefits of staff dedicated to advancing the activities contained within this
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
section and section 10-16 of this charter." The purpose of that is to ensure that
the staff that would be hired would also be able to fulfill the purposes of the
maintenance fund as well.
MS. GALIMBA: Correct.
MR. HENRICKS: Because that was the original intent of CA -9, Draft 2.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay.
MS. GALIMBA: Yes.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: Can I ask you a question? The way this is written, would this staff
person be only working on Public Access matters, or would this staff person with
the amendment that Commissioner Galimba is, has just stated, would it also,
would that staff person also be able to work on other activities within the Finance
Department?
MR. HENRICKS: No. It says "dedicated to advancing the activities contained
within this section and section 10-16." Which is the maintenance fund, so the
word dedicated means...
MS. RICE: That's it?
MR. HENRICKS: Exclusively for that purpose.
MS. RICE: Okay.
MR. HENRICKS: Or those purposes.
MS. RICE: Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: One moment, so I appreciate the, Mr. Henrick's review of that,
dedicated, if I may ask our legal counsel, dedicated has that meaning? "Exclusive
use"?
MR. YOSHIMOTO: I would agree with that interpretation. I mean that is the
intent, I think from the maker of the motion right, to make sure that there is staff
dedicated to Articles 15 and 16. I mean we could ask Commissioner Galimba, but
I thought that was your clear intent.
MS. GALIMBA: That is my clear intent.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MR. HENRICKS: To answer your question as well, as part of working with Ms.
Galimba on her amendments, I did review several definitions in different
dictionaries including Black's Law, and dedicated means for an exclusive
purpose.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright. Thank you. Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: Yes, I support this amendment because it simplifies the
statement considerably from what we had and you know I can support it at this
point because it also, I look at it, it has a little more flexibility, but it says the
position is dedicated to this use here and hopefully we are not going to run into
the potential problems that Director Sako had noted, and because basically this is
essentially her language saying "here if you want to do this, this will solve the
problem." And, I will go along with that.
CHR. ADAMS: So I notice that the microphone lights are on for
Commissioner...
MS. RICE: Oh, sorry.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay, are there any other items? Discussion? I have, I was going
to make an amendment frankly on the previous one. I have some issue with
taking supervisory responsibilities away from supervisors, so when we say that
someone can only in a Charter Amendment, in a Charter Proposal, say that
someone can only do something, that removes that individual from supervision
frankly and so, the idea that we are going to place somebody into Director, into
Department of Finance and yet not have the Director have some supervisory
responsibility, I think creates an issue. And so, I get the idea, the idea is that we
are going to use money, we are going to pay for somebody, that somebody is
going to be responsible and accountable for the activities in 10-15 and 10-16, but
the way the phrasing works in the previous one when it was "only" and according
to the interpretation here where it says right, says "dedicated to", I have... I am
not sure how to change that phrasing necessarily, but I am not excited about
removing somebody from a supervisory oversight.
Commissioner Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: I am wondering if it really does that? Just because you are
dedicated to a task, doesn't mean you are not going to have supervisory oversight
of doing that task or tasks in this case, well because there is a lot that goes into
administering the fund and the maintenance fund. I think that there still should be
supervisory capabilities. Yeah.
CHR. ADAMS: So I note that we have the Director of Finance here. Without
objection, 1 would like the Director to come forward and perhaps allay my
concerns.
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
(Note: At this time, Director Deanna Sako came forward to address the members
of the Commission.)
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you Director Sako.
MS. SAKO: Thank you. Deanna Sako, Director of Finance. Yes, the person
would continue to be you know supervised, that was also one of our concerns
with some of the language in the last amendment, and so, we want to be able to
have the person work on PONC activities, be able to charge the Rind for those
activities, and also not be restricted to the time element, so if it is a three-quarter
time that needs to be done, then we can do three-quarters time. If it is one -and -a -
half times or full-time equivalent, you know we can charge as needed. So we can
allocate the staff necessary.
CHR. ADAMS: So you can live with this wording in the Charter?
MS. SAKO: Yes, I can.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Any other questions for the Director? Alright, thank
you.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Sony, one question.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Zelko.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: One question. In times of emergency, because I
know you know, in many organizations including the County, staff has to perhaps
do another job or go to the EOC (Emergency Operations Center)...
MS. SAKO: Right. Correct.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Would this language make it so...
MS. SAKO: The way I was reading it was that if they were at EOC or times of
emergency we would not charge that portion of the salary...
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Okay. Understood, okay.
MS. SAKO: To the fund.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Commissioner Rice.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MS. RICE: That brings up the question of the dedication. If you have the ability
to remove that person from working on the preservation activities in 10-15 and
10-16...
MS. SAKO: So you know Ms. Zelko brings up one of the extreme situations we
were faced with this last year when we had lava flowing across Puna, we had
Hurricane Lane, you know, there are times when everyone is called into action
and while this fund is extremely important, public safety will always trump you
know, the duties of this particular fund. That is not to say that's the call I would
make, but it is good to know that we have the ability to assign our staff as
necessary during times of emergency.
MS. RICE: So it would be very limited to specific instances of emergency, it
wouldn't be just everyday work.
MS. SAKO: Right, I mean we, yes, we will assign staff as needed and so, they
would be dedicated to this fund. But there could be times when they are called
upon like every other employee to you know, help with public safety.
MS. RICE: Okay. You've answered my question. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright. Thank you Director. Is there any other discussion on
this particular amendment? Hearing none, all, I am going to take a voice vote
without objection. All in favor of the, actually, thank you Commissioner Todd for
being here. Where we are is that we have an amendment on Charter Amendment
9, Draft 2, which is the proposal to provide funds, that amends section 10-15,
providing funds from the preservation fund to fund a staff position. In the draft,
in the amendment in that draft 2, is a rather large, long paragraph. There is an
amendment to that Charter Amendment 9, Draft 2, which replaces the phrasing
with "the monies in these funds may be used to pay for the salary, wages, and
benefits of staff dedicated to advancing the activities contained within this section
and section 10-16." And so that's what we are voting on with this current
amendment to Charter Amendment 9, Draft 2.
Okay, so all in favor if the motion to amend Charter Amendment 9, Draft 2,
please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed? It passes 10-0, so we are now
back to Charter Amendment 9, Draft 2, as amended, see I don't get to change the
name on the fly. And there is a motion on the floor to transmit that for first
reading, the amendment that we...
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
Vote on Motion The motion to amend CA -9, Draft 2 was carried by the following voice vote:
To Amend
CA -9, Draft 2 Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
(Approved): Hopkins, Rice,Roehrig, Springer, Todd,
Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams —10
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioner Saquing 1
Excused: None.
MR. HENRICKS: 1 am sorry, it is just a subtle thing...
CHR. ADAMS: Re -phrase that?
MR. HENRICKS: Pass it on first reading.
CHR. ADAMS: Pass...
MR. HENRICKS: And then hold it for second reading.
CHR. ADAMS: 1 appreciate it that. Pass it for, that's right because the
Communication transmitted it, so pass it on, pass it for first reading, okay, on first
reading... these prepositions. Good thing 1 am not a writer. And just to rephrase
what we just voted on is what we are voting on now. Everybody get that? So we
just...
MS. RICE: The whole thing?
CHR. ADAMS: Well, CA -9 and the changes to 10-15, section 10-15, and the
changes with sub 3 if I am not misstating it. Right, it's C(3) is where that
amendment exists within section 10-15. Okay, without objection we will take a
voice vote. All in favor of the motion please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any
opposed? Motion passes 10-0. Lets take a brief recess, about ten minutes.
Thanks.
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -9, Draft 2, as amended, on first reading was carried by the
To Approve following voice vote:
CA -9, Draft 3
(Approved): Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Hamano,
Hopkins, Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Todd,
Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 10
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioner Saquing - 1
Excused: None.
Page 55
Hawaii County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
RECESS:
RECONVENE:
At 2:15 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
The meeting reconvened at 2:29 p.m.
CHR. ADAMS: We are back in open session. Thank you. Moving on to Item
No. 5, Communication No. 27, transmitting Charter Amendment 11 for initial
approval. Proposal to amend Section 6-7.2 Relating to Qualifications for the
Planning Director; as submitted by Commissioner Rice. This item was postponed
on January 25th. It requires a motion to pass Charter Amendment No. 11 on initial
approval. Do I have such a motion?
MS. RICE: So, I so move.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second? So it has been moved by Commissioner Rice
and seconded by Commissioner Springer.
Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: Well, as I recall in my, when I read my notes from the presentations
that the different departments gave to us, one of the recommendations from one of
the planners, and I wrote it down so I am assuming I heard correctly, was that
they recommended experience in Hawaii Land Use Laws, so in going back
through things that we needed to propose to take a look at what the departments
had recommended, I picked that one up. So, when I get the letter from Mr. Yee,
that he was opposed to that, I was quite surprised and it seemed like a sensible
requirement for a governnent planner who is charged with following Hawai`i
law. It didn't seem like a very restrictive qualification, but obviously by his
appearance this morning, he has a problem with it, so I was hoping perhaps
Commissioner Leithead-Todd who was Planning Director herself could assist me
with this because I really don't want to press something that is not proper, but at
the same time it made sense.
CHR. ADAMS: Corrunissioner Todd.
MS. TODD: Thank you Mr. Chair. I am generally reluctant to add additional
requirements because I usually, I tend to come from the position that the Mayor
looks for and finds staff that he thinks is qualified and appropriate for a position
and there is a vetting process that the County Council is supposed to go through,
and then that should be the checks and balances. I do agree that Hawai`i has
unique land use laws in that our system of having a State Land Use Classification
System, the amount of land that is under control of the BLNR( Board of Land and
Natural Resources), and the LUC (Land Use Committee), General Plans, lots of
places have General Plans, lots of places have Zoning Codes, lot s of places have
Subdivision Codes, so your experience and knowledge in those areas are easily
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
translatable. However, my experience when we interviewed for positions and
these are civil service, and supervisory positions within the department, we had a
lot of qualified candidates from the mainland who didn't have so called
experience in Hawai`i Land Use Law because they had never worked in Hawai`i,
however, when we did interviews with them, the better qualified candidates had
taken the time, they carne prepared to the interview. They had read the General
Plan, they had read Hawaii State Land Use Laws, they were familiar with what
the LUC did, and so, and they were very qualified individuals and in fact we
ended up hiring somebody that we subsequently, we lost him to another
jurisdiction. Because someone who has got the educational background and
experience in that field can usually take the time and energy to bring themselves
up to snuff.
But I do agree that I think it is important and it would be better if a director had
experience, but I really would like to leave as much flexibility to the Mayor and
the Council. And the Council if they are doing their job, should be asking those
questions of candidates, what their education, well, not just their educational
background is, but what their experience is and whether that experience translates
to running a department. And I am going to tell you part of the way Planning
works is, a lot of people think that the Director just wakes up and says "oh, yes,
this is approved, this is not approved." It doesn't work that way. Everything that
goes in through the Planning Department goes to staff and the staff reviews the
applicable law both on the State and the County level and the staff writes up a
recommendation which then goes to their supervisor, their Division Chief, and
then the Division Chief reviews and sees whether it is consistent with his
knowledge, and then it goes to the Planning Director or sometimes to the Deputy
Planning Director depending on how they have divvied up duties in the office. So
there is a process in place where if you have a Director who comes in and it is
going to take him a while to kind of, I am sorry I can't think of any other word
other than Ma`a, to get himself really firmly familiar with Hawaiian land use
practices. He has a staff of experienced and trained civil servants under him who
do have that experience and who are heavily involved in snaking that
recommendation. The Director does not operate in a vacuum.
MS. RICE: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Are there any other items for discussion?
Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: Given that, I will probably vote no on my amendment because it was
not meant to simply have an amendment. I wanted to make...
CHR. ADAMS: There is the alternative.
MS. RICE: I was unaware that it was, of the process.
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CHR. ADAMS: So, there is an alternative where you could withdraw your
motion.
MS. RICE: Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: Is that what you would like to do?
MS. RICE: Yes. I would like to withdraw my motion.
CHR. ADAMS: Does the second also accept the withdrawal? I thought it was... I
thought Commissioner Springer was the second? Right, so you withdraw the
second?
So then, without a motion...
MS. RICE: It just dies?
CHR. ADAMS: Without a motion on the table, the Charter Amendment No. 11
fails for lack of a motion.
MS. RICE: Okay, that's fine.
Withdraw CA -11: Ms. Rice announced the withdrawal of Charter Amendment No. 11.
CHR. ADAMS: So, let's move on to Item No. 6, Communication No. 28,
Transmitting Charter Amendment 12 for Initial Approval; Proposal to amend
Section 3-7 by adding disciplinary measures for council members who behave in
a disorderly or contemptuous manner at council meetings or when a council
member fails to attend three or more regular meetings of the council without
being excused by the council chair; as submitted by Commissioner Todd. This
was initially postponed January 25, 2019. Is there a motion to pass Charter
Amendment 12 on Initial Approval?
MR. HAMANO: So moved.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second?
MS. RICE: Second.
CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Todd, seconded by
Commissioner Rice.
Commissioner Todd.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MS. TODD: This kind of reflects an unusual circumstance. But something that
we had never anticipated when dealing with the County Council which was that
somebody might effectively choose that they are not going to participate in the
Council actions. And we looked at some language principally in the O`ahu
County Charter to provide some mechanism by which the Council can force
participation basically or censure a Council member who elects not to participate,
or I also in reading the language, remembered many, many years ago when a fist
fight broke out on the, I think it was the island of Kaua`i, between Council
members and we didn't exactly have that happen here but we did have one
meeting many years ago when I was staff, where two Council members just got
into it so much with each other, that the other Council members stood up and left
the room because they said it was so out of order and they couldn't control it, and
so I thought maybe there should be a mechanism for making sure that people
behave, that they do their job and live up to the responsibilities of the office. And
I felt that the fail safe here is that it requires an affirmative vote of two-thirds of
the entire membership, so it is not just up to the Chair, so it is not just one person
saying you know, "I am going to do this to you." It has to be a vote and then that
also means that it is done at a public hearing, so but, I felt that you know, it might
be the time to discuss whether you have some type of disciplinary process for
Council members.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Is there any other discussion on this particular...
Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: Thanks. Thank you again. The first part of this I think is
another county's. 1 think the last part about Council member fails to attend three
or more regular meetings is not from what I read. This is, that language is...
applies though I think to a particular person. Sounds like a bill of attainder to me,
when you make laws applying to a particular person. You know the disorderly
part fine, but this part about the ante, if you don't come then you can't come next
time is kind of illogical so I don't think that should be part of it. The first part is
okay with me.
CHR. ADAMS: Are you making an amendment to change the Charter
Amendment?
MR. ROEHRIG: Okay, I'll do that. I'll make an amend that we knock off the
part about if you don't fail to attend three or more meetings without being
excused by the Chair.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second?
MS. GALIMBA: Second.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: So it has been moved by Commissioner Roehrig and seconded
by Commissioner Galimba to amend Charter Amendment 12 by removing D,
Section 3-7 D(2) in the Charter Amendment. Would you like to say anything in
addition to what you already said?
MR. ROEHRIG: Yeah, you know nothing ever goes as planned at meetings and
stuff but I think it comes kind of a sad statement if you start having to tell your
Council that you know gee, disorderly conduct etc., you know, things happen.
People don't get voted in again. I don't think you need this kind of thing to make
a Council run.
CHR. ADAMS: Any other discussion? Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: When Council Chair Poindexter came before us, she asked that we
consider something because of the problem and not to say that in the future they
won't have other problems. I like the number two, where it says "fails to attend
three or more meetings if they are not excused." The Council person is paid by
our taxpayer dollar and is supposed to do the business of his or her district and if
they are not there for three meetings, I mean we could extend it to make it four if
that was more comfortable, but I think a Council person who doesn't show up and
hasn't a legitimate excuse for not showing up isn't doing his job and therefore
should be suspended without pay.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Coirnnissioner Zelko.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: I would just add to what Commissioner Rice said
and I think most employees are held to this standard so, I like this language.
CHR. ADAMS: Any other items?
Commissioner Bergin.
MR. BERGIN: I agree, three meetings. I think there has to be a certain degree of
decorum and discipline that is involved in serving publicly and I think there
couldn't be a better exainple than what we have witnessed in the last few months,
so I am for leaving it as is, where is.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. I do have a couple of questions for Commissioner
Todd if I may? I was concerned about this section as well. I note that the Charter
has provisions both for Courts and for voters to remove folks from office and my
concern I guess comes from something that 1 talked about actually earlier. The
Council members are where they are at because of voters, and so their primary
responsibility or their accountability is to those voters and I appreciate the idea
that requiring or having some way of allowing the organization of the Council to
operate properly is necessary, I mean we have censure rules in the Congress, but it
takes a great deal for those things to even come up, much less be brought to a
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
vote, and I wonder if the idea of absences meets that threshold for me and whether
or not it isn't up to the voters to make that call as opposed to the Council. As far
as one is concerned I get it. I think that that crosses a threshold I think I get that.
So, comments?
MS. TODD: This provision does not remove anyone from office. They are still
free to come back and participate and represent their district at any time. This
does not prevent them from doing their job, what it says is that you can't you
know, without any excuse, stay away from meetings, not do your job, and
continue to collect a paycheck. That's all that this is. And I think you know,
given the, you know, I wasn't... I think the issue came up because of what
happened this past year, but I also thought about the fact that you know when I
served on the Council you had to have a good reason and you had to communicate
it in advance because the Chair needed to know whether you had quorum, the
Chair needed to know whether you were going to appear in Hilo or whether you
were going to appear in Kona, cause back then we didn't have all the facilities
that we have now, and having two meetings a month that you have to show up at
is not so onerous a requirement and if you were sick, if you were out of town,
those are excused absences. But it is just like you had no reason you know, other
than you didn't want to participate perhaps, and I just felt that it was worth
running up the flagpole and at least having a discussion on this and if it goes to
public hearing then it gives the public an opportunity to weigh in. It doesn't mean
that we end up putting this on the ballot. I would like to hear from the County
Council, I would like to hear from the public what they think.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. One other question having to do with the... it notes
that actually, Twill wait to ask that question after we vote on this amendment. It
is not germane to this particular vote. Is there any other discussion on the
amendment which removes subsection two from section 3-7 (D)?
Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: One other continent I have since you are taking money away
from someone, I question whether or not they have due process rights to a hearing
before you do that? Which would entail substantial amount of effort.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay, so iet's take a roll call on this one Mr. Henricks.
MR. HENRICKS: On the motion to amend to remove D 2 and then for the record
place a period after the word presence.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you.
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Bergin (aye), Ms. Galirnba (aye), Mr. Hanamo (no), Mr.
Hopkins (no), Ms. Leithead-Todd (No), Ms. Rice (inaudible) (no) So, just so
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everybody knows what the motion is, it is to, oh, okay, you're good? Oli you said
no? Okay, correct, thank you.
Mr. Roehrig (aye), Ms. Saquing (absent), Ms. Springer (no), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter
(no), Chair Adams (yes). Chair Adams you have four votes in favor.
Vote on Motion The motion to amend CA -12 failed by the following roll call vote:
To Amend CA -12
(Failed): Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Galimba, Roehrig, and
Chair Adams Springer — 4
Noes: Cornrnissioners Harnano, Hopkins, Rice, Springer,
Todd and Zelko-Schlueter — 6
Absent: Commissioners Saquing - 1
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: The motion does not pass and we are back to discuss Charter
Amendment 12 in its full nature which is 3-7 (d) I do have a question for
Commissioner Todd if that's okay. So, in the Item of the Council, let's see,
"upon affirmative vote of two-thirds of its entire membership, the council may
suspend without pay for not more than one month any member who.." so the
thought was, does this allow for successive votes from month to month?
MS. TODD: Yes it would.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Is there any other discussion?
Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: Last comment, sorry for talking so much. I don't think you
should make laws based upon one incident. That's wrong.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Any other comments?
Commissioner Todd.
MS. TODD: I couldn't resist. We have an entire resign to run provision in the
State Constitution which is based on Frank Fasi you know, running for Governor
from the safety of being Mayor and that is the only reason that that, which I think
is a practically a good amendment, but that is the only reason and it was based on
what people perceived as a reoccurring problem. Now, I am just saying that I
think this should be held out at public hearing, if it comes back to us and at that
time after public hearing and hearing what the County Council has to say, we
decide that we want to deep six this or don't want to support it anymore, then fine.
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You know, this does not mean that it goes on the ballot. This just means that it
would go forward for more discussion.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: I would agree. The County Council has had experience and so I think
it would be really good to hear from them and see if this solves their problem and
if they think this is something that they would support.
CHR. ADAMS: Any other comments? Alright, let's have a roll call vote on this
please.
MR. HENRICKS: On the motion to pass CA -12 on initial approval, Mr. Bergin
(aye), Ms. Galirnba (absent), Mr. Haman (aye), Mr. Hopkins (aye), Ms.
Leithead-Todd(aye), Ms. Rice(aye), Mr. Roehrig (no), Ms. Saquing (absent), Ms.
Springer (aye), Ms. Zelko-Schlueter (aye), Chair Adams (aye).
Chair Adams you have eight votes in favor, yes, eight.
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -12 on initial approval was carried by the following
To Approve CA -12 voice vote:
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hamano, Hopkins,
Rice, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter, and
Chair Adams -- 8
Noes: Commissioner Roehrig --- 1
Absent: Commissioners Galimba and Saquing — 2
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Alright, moving on to Item No. 7, in Old Business,
Communication No. 29 Transmitting Charter Amendment 13 for Initial Approval;
Proposal to amend Article X by adding a new section that would permit the
Mayor to use funds in times of a declared emergency from any special fund of the
County, unless prohibited by State law, to preserve the peace, life, property,
health or safety of the County and its inhabitants; as submitted by Commissioner
Leithead-Todd. This was postponed on January 25, 2019. Is there a motion to
approve Charter Amendment No. 13 on initial approval?
Seeing no motion, this particular Charter Amendment fails for lack of a motion.
Failed: Failed for lack of motion.
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NEW BUSINESS: The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
New Business.
CHR. ADAMS: Moving on to New Business, Communication No. 31
transmitting Charter Amendment 14 for Initial Approval; Proposal to amend
Sections 6-4.3 and 6-4.4 to update language for qualifications and the Powers,
Duties, and Functions of the Director of Information Technology as submitted by
Commissioner Adams. I would ask Commissioner Zelko to take on the role of
Chair at this point.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Chair Adams relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Zelko-Schlueter.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thank you. Chair Adams, since this is your
recommendation, do you want to...
CHR. ADAMS: I move that we approved Charter Amendment No. 14 on initial
approval.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Oh, so it was Cornrnissioner Rice moved with Chair
Adams second. Other way around. Chair Adams moved, with Cornrnissioner
Rice seconding. So now we can open it up.
Chair Adams.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. This particular Charter Amendment takes the
phrasing that was provided to us by the Director of Information Technology and
is in between I think Commissioner Hopkin's technical fixes and really super
substantive type of stuff. In other words, this is designed to help us phrase with
the current and hopefully relatively long-term future phraseology in information
technology from what it previously was 10 or 20 years ago. And so, all the
phrasing in here, all the changes in here to 6-4.3 and 6-4.4 are changes in phrasing
to make it more understandable and I would urge you to vote so that we can be in
the 21st century.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Are there any, is there any discussion regarding the
amendment? Okay. Well, seeing none, I think we can just take a voice vote on
this. All in favor of Communication No. 31, transmitting Charter Amendment 14
for initial approval, please signify by saying "aye". (aye), anyone opposed?
Okay great. So, CA -14 passes on to first reading. Okay, do you want me to
handle the next one too Chair Adams? Okay.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -14 on initial approval was carried by the following
To Approve CA -14 voice vote:
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hamann, Hopkins,
Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Todd,
Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams -- 9
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Galimba and Saquing — 2
Excused: None.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: So, Item No. 2, Communication No. 32,
transmitting CA -15 for Initial Approval; Proposal to amend Section 6-4.4,
Powers, Duties, and Functions of the Director of Information Technology to
Reflect the current status of operations; as submitted by Chair Adams. Is there a
motion to...?
CHR. ADAMS: I would move to approve Charter Amendment 15 on initial
approval.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Do we have a second? Okay. With Chair Adams
with the motion and Commissioner Todd with the second, so we are going to
open it up for discussion.
Chair Adams.
CHR. ADAMS: Thanks. This as you may recall, we had the Prosecuting
Attorney come and talk to us during the departmental briefings. This is a
reflection of reality where both the Prosecuting Attorney and the Hawai`i Police
Department have their own Information Technology systems that are different in
not just in, they are just, they are different in type and in characteristics and in
operational processing then those that are maintained by the Department of
Information Technology. And so they are similar in that way to the system that is
maintained by the Department of Water Supply and therefore this just, this is a
reflection of reality.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Is there any further comments or discussion? Okay.
I think we can take a voice vote on this one as well. All those in favor of Charter
Amendment 15 for initial approval please signify by saying "aye" (aye), anyone
opposed? Okay, so motion for Charter Amendment 15 for initial approval passes
on to first reading.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -15 on initial approval was carried by the following
To Approve CA -15 voice vote:
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hamann, Hopkins,
Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Todd,
Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 9
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Galimba and Saquing — 2
Excused: None.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Acting Chair Zelko-Schlueter relinquished the chair back to
Chair Adams.
CHR. ADAMS: Retaking my Chair. Thank you. Moving on to Item 3,
Communication No. 33, Transmitting Charter Amendment 16 for Initial
Approval; Proposal to merge Sections 10-15 and Section 10-16, I am sorry,
proposal to merge Section 10-15 and Section 10-16, the Public Access, Open
Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund and Maintenance Fund,
respectively, into a new Section 10-15 that would include both funds at their
cun-ent funding levels, remove detailed provisions for the maintenance fund, and
allow the use of those funds to hire staff to administer to both funds; as submitted
by Commissioner Todd. Is there a motion?
This motion dies or fails, this motion fails for lack of a... this particular Charter
Amendment fails for lack of a motion.
Failed: Failed for lack of motion.
CHR. ADAMS: Moving on to Item 4 in New Business, Communication No. 34
Transmitting Charter Amendment 17 for Initial Approval; Proposal to add a new
Section to Article X, Financial Procedures, to establish a Disaster and Emergency
Fund; as submitted by Commissioner Todd. Is there a motion?
MS. TODD: I move to approve.
MR. BERGIN: Second.
CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Todd, seconded by
Commissioner Bergin to approve Charter Amendment No. 17 on initial approval.
We are in discussion.
Commissioner Todd.
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MS. TODD: I submitted this to address my concern over having funds available
to deal with disasters. The way this is written there is a target goal of $20 million
but whether you are at one million, two million, three rnillion, the funds are still
available to the Mayor in a time of declared emergency to use and part of the
reason that I wanted to have a substantial fund was that having lived... I am old
enough that I lived through Kapoho. I lived through the 1960 tsunami and was on
Oahu for one hurricane, flew to Kaua`i to provide free legal services after a
hurricane that didn't even leave a leaf on a tree and every house I saw had blue
tarp if they still had a roof. And also, looking at the nature of emergency funds
which is frequently you need to expend money before emergency funds come in
from other sources. Sometimes before you are going to get reimbursement and
you need to be able to pay the overtime and get people out.
So I drafted this to try and require, because I thought that the current Code
provision of $250,000 a year was not enough. And the way this is designed is that
once that threshold of $20 million is reached then there is no longer an annual
requirement of putting money into the fund. It is just if the fund drops below $20
million then you have to have an appropriation of either one percent or less if it
brings it back up to $20 million. It is just that I looked at the cost of major
emergencies, or major disasters, and I just felt that having even five million was
not enough money to deal with something catastrophic. With the, what we
anticipate with future climate change, they are telling us that hurricanes are going
to be stronger and more frequent and so I just feel like we should be prepared. I
recognize that the Administration doesn't necessarily like having their hands tied
in terms of looking at their revenues and how they do the budget, but I just think
that we need to be proactive as opposed to reactive in trying to deal with a
tragedy, a disaster after it occurs and having a fund available I thought was good.
The other reason was initially you know I had drafted it where you could go and
grab any of the special funds and that would have included the PONC monies and
after a lot of the public testimony, it became apparent to me that I didn't think that
setting up a Disaster Fund or having that, I didn't think that would pass and so I
wanted to really achieve a goal of having a fund that the Mayor can go to to
address disasters. The other thing is because it is a special fund, I think as long as
there is a decent amount of money, it would and Deanna could speak to this if you
want to call her up, that it would help with our bond rating because we have the
money there. I just think that sometimes you have to have something in
legislation that forces the County to think ahead and plan ahead. So anyway, just
run it up the flagpole and see if anybody salutes.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: I agree completely. I think the discipline that this would require
where they are required to bring the fund up to $20 million, it was mentioned
today that perhaps $30 million was needed, but at least this prevents the crisis...
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well, let's say it this way, we have a crisis, and this allows the Mayor some
confidence that he has a pot of money to at least go in to and make immediate
repairs and help with whatever it is that has happened. And also it seems to me
that if we have this fund when we go to the State Legislature it is not like we just
have our hands out, but we actually have our own money to match with whatever
we need to get from them or from FEMA (Federal Emergency Management
Agency) etc. I think it is excellent.
CHR. ADAMS: Without objection I would like to bring Director Sako up for
questions that Commissioner Todd or the rest of us may have.
Hello Director Sako.
(Note: At this time, Director Deanna Sako carne forward to address the members
of the Commission.)
MS. SAKO: Hi. Hello again. Can i just clarify one thing that I think might have
been misinterpreted? We currently do have a Disaster and Emergency Fund and
just some of the comments made after made me feel maybe some people didn't
catch on to that and it did have six million in before the disasters, but yes, we had
two very large disasters this year.
CHR. ADAMS: So if I may just follow up on that. And that is provided by
ordinance?
MS. SAKO: Yes it is.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Did you have any questions Commissioner Todd?
MS. TODD: No, I just want to thank Deanna for being here and dealing with a
multitude of proposals that you have had to respond to from us. It is just that I
think you know, it is wonderful that we had six million, but when you have got
something like what occurred this year, six million is "boom" and I had heard
that, I think the latest proposal is like $150 million to deal with lava related
repairs and restoration of lost facilities and I just think that you know, I know it
creates budgetary problems and it potentially raises the specter of having to deal
with real property taxes, salary, wages, retirement benefits and other things.
MS. SAKO: Right.
MS. TODD: That you are required to pay into, but it is just that we live on an
island that is kind of, I mean, where else can you have hurricane, tsunami,
earthquake, lava flow, and the other things like wildfires, that you have got to
respond to. And I am just concerned that as time goes by and climate change
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occurs, that the nature, scope, and severity of the disasters that may hit us are
going to just get bigger and bigger. So thank you very much for being here
Deanna.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: Excuse my ignorance, the emergency fund now is there a cap?
Is it just yearly? I don't know.
MS. SAKO: I would have to get the language out again. Annually we are
required to put in a minimum of $250,000 and then it, I think that one is supposed
to grow to between, you know to get it to be at least $10 million, but I haven't
looked at the language lately.
MR. ROEHRIG: Okay. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Bergin.
MR. BERGIN: Chair Adams, before I ask my question of you, I want to find out,
Deanna what is the figure and how is it accumulated?
MS. SAKO: So it has been accumulating over the years. I think it was first
established in 2004 and in years when times were good you know we were able to
fund it with some significant contributions. When years were bad then we just
put in a minimum, the $250,000 and then over the years as we have used it to
payout for disasters, whatever reimbursements from FEMA, typically it is FEMA,
we receive, go back into that fund. So that it would be available for the next you
know, disaster.
MR. BERGIN: And to you Commissioner Todd, I think you gave the figure of
$20 million as being an ideal, which is probably conservative.
MS. TODD: I had to pick a number and based on what I saw going on with the
current lava flow, I was looking for something in the neighborhood of twenty
percent or close to twenty percent of what the anticipated costs might be, but also
thinking that if we had at least this pot of money, that it would give us time before
the State monies came in, before Federal monies came in, because we are really
the first responders here on this island. It is our Fire Fighters, our Police, Public
Works personnel, and it entails a lot of overtime and depending on what time of
the year this occurs... in the beginning of the year you have the funds you have
allotted for the rest of the year that you could draw on, but when you have a
disaster that occurs in May or June and you are at the end of the fiscal year, you
may not have those additional resources you could go to until you receive funding
coming in from State and Federal. So I just wanted to be able to ensure that we
had the funds and not have a situation where you know, we can't pay the overtime
and we can't pay for whatever supplies we need because this also entailed things
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like breathing apparatus and things that were not in our budget because all of a
sudden because of the fumes that were emanating from the eruption, we needed
special equipment which you might ordinarily have for your Hazrat team, but
suddenly we needed this equipment for the Police, we needed this equipment for
Fire Fighters on a 24/7 basis and we also needed some of this equipment to hand
out to the public. It just—we saw things last year that we had not anticipated
needing to do and I just thought that it would be good to have a bigger fund
because the money is there. And you know it will get reimbursed but something
that he could, the Mayor could go to immediately to pay for those first response
needs.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Bergin if you could turn on your microphone
please.
MR. BERGIN: To you Chair Adams, in an ideal world that the degree of
discipline and attention that we do want to give to like a say a motherhood and
apple pie issue like PONC, we should be able to have the discipline to turn the
other way and pay just as much of an allegiance to the effect of global warming
and the fact that the Big Island never needed global warming, we have had
enough crises over the last 100 years to know that that is coming down the pike.
One of the written testimonies in favor of supporting PONC really pointed that, to
that Disaster Fund as a means, to me I read it as a discipline to go ahead and begin
to ensure, to guard against that particular thing and I guess we would then need to
see what the Council and the Mayor would be willing to go to, but I think $20
million rings a good bell. Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Hamann.
MR. HAMANO: Yeah, I would like to ask Director Sako what her thoughts are
in that if this is implemented, you know what your thoughts are in having another
three million dollars added as a mandated part of your budget?
MS. SAKO: Thank you for asking. You know we have definitely been hit with
disasters and it is important and you know we have been funding, but to have that
mandatory amount for anything you know, makes it difficult to budget especially
in trying times, and so, it is just being restricted that that three million would go
there right away before anything else. Much like PONC, after a while we can
only set aside so many percentage points and we are at a 100 percent and will
there still be money left for Police and Fire, and all the other needs that we have
to carry out for the County? So I just, I am more against setting a precedent that
everything you know, will be allocated out in our budget and there will be nothing
left for the things we also have to do.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you. Commissioner Hopkins.
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MR. HOPKINS: This is just a question, clarification for Commissioner Leithead-
Todd or Director Sako. The, with this new fund that is created, is the fund that is
named in here the same fund that already exists or is it a new fund, and will we
end up with two funds for disasters? We do have...
MS. TODD: I would assume that any monies that currently are in the disaster
fund would then pour into this whether you called it this or called it another fund
because the Administration would want to try and get to the $20 million as
quickly as they could so they wouldn't be burdened with the one percent per year
and one percent was a number I picked because I thought we could get their
quickly. I am not adverse to people thinking about half a percent per year, which
would be less, but I just wanted to make sure that we were going to dedicate more
than $250,000 a year to planning and that is because I am convinced that the
impacts of climate change are going to result in more severe weather conditions
and if we get a major, a bigger hurricane, a category four, a category five, it is not
just the wind. The water, the flooding, all of those things, and you are going to
have bridges that are impacted, roads that are washed away. I went through a
flash flood in Waimea corning up from Kawaihae when I was oh good grief, 14,
so that was more than 50 years ago and I remember being, watching the car get
swept off the road, seeing sections of pavement lifted up by the flood and washing
past us and you know we had to get off the road and on to high ground and that
was 50 years ago, but that was just a flash flood that was isolated to the Waimea
Kawaihae road area. If we have something like a major hurricane hit us, we are
going to have recurrence. If you remember I think it was 2000 when we had 49
inches in Kat and every major bridge that was on both sides of the town of
Pahala washed out and we had to go up Mauka in four wheel drives to get to them
and to assess what was going on. Bridges in Hilo washed out. I think it was
Komohana and Kawailani washed out. If we have something that hits the whole
island, we are going to need a lot of money to address it and so I just am
concerned that we need to be more proactive in planning and sometimes having
been an elected official, sometimes the long range stuff and planning and putting
money aside for that is harder to do than you would believe because there is
always something that somebody wants right now. Somebody wants bleachers at
a park, somebody wants dugouts at a park, somebody wants the new equipment,
playground equipment, and because you are running regularly and you are trying
to address your constituents, telling your constituents "oh no you know, I can't do
that because we really need to put a million dollars aside for emergencies in the
future." Is very difficult because that emergency in the future isn't real to people
today but the need for the playground equipment, the need for the paving, the
need for dugouts, that is real because that they see as they get something
immediate, but trying to plan for something down the road they always assume
that you are going to be able to deal with that emergency when it comes up. I am
just concerned that the nature and size of the emergencies may be more frequent
and bigger than we have seen in the past. But I admit that I am not married to the
one percent. I think that that's a discussion that maybe the Council and the Mayor
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and the public may want to weigh in on and I am not married to $20 million. I
just had to pick a number that I thought was a reasonable number.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: Ms. Sako on the money that was paid out by the County for
personal property damage, does it get paid to individuals?
MS. SAKO: Are you talking about like homes destroyed by lava and what not?
No, our funding has to be used for a public purpose, so the individuals impacted
by the lava were helped by FEMA or by Small Business Association and there
were other entities that stepped in to help.
MR. ROEHRIG: Okay, so this money that we are talking about, the $6 million or
the $20 million, doesn't go to individuals, it goes to public property...damage.
MS. SAKO: It goes for County infrastructure, public safety for sure, you know
we may have to evacuate people, we may have to shelter people, those types of
things, but you know, it is kind of listed here, but you know, repairing County
facilities, cleaning up County property, providing immediate response to deal with
public health and safety risk. Match Federal, State funds, which is what a lot of it
is used for, and then operational expenses if necessary.
MR. ROEHRIG: Okay, stupid question, is there insurance available for any of
this?
MS. SAKO: We do have insurance on some of our buildings, but we do not have
insurance like on our roads, and in like the case of lava, a lot of our roads were
covered by lava, so, and Hurricane Lane had a lot of road and bridge damage, but
those types of things are not insured.
MR. ROEHR1G: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Brief question Director, I notice that you were reading from
something, that's the ordinance right?
MS. SAKO: Yes.
CHR. ADAMS: So the phrasing that we have I guess in this particular
amendment largely carne from the ordinance.
MS. SAKO: It did, and there is just one difference and it is currently number
seven, and so, yeah, I was going to say you might want to make a friendly
amendment to just renumber those, but what is currently called number seven,
paying for acquisition of property to mitigate future potential disasters or
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emergencies, is one of the ones added. Other than that, I think the language carne
from the County Code.
CHR. ADAMS: Given that, as a hypothetical which all public officials love to
answer, if this passed, what happens to the ordinance because it is still on the
books? Is there a requirement for this, you know, would it be appropriate for this
particular proposal to have something that directs the Council to implement by
ordinance and maybe not be for you, I don't know.
MS. SAKO: I was looking at our attorney but...
MR. HENRICKS: J will help me but you know, generally, Charter provisions
will always supersede Code provisions, but if you wanted, I think there may be
some, I don't think there would necessarily be a need to articulate that in the
language of the proposal itself or somewhere in the proposal as a separate section
as saying "this will take precedence and any code provisions are repealed."
That's something the Council would have to do on its own accord recognizing
that if this passes, the County Code is now obsolete. It could have a couple
options. It could amend it to read the same way. I don't know if that would be
prudent. It could just repeal it and let the Charter stand alone, and I don't know if
it would be helpful for this Commission to provide a pathway to deal with that.
CHR. ADAMS: Right. My concern would be that something gets taken out that
shouldn't have been taken out of the ordinance, you know as part of what we were
trying to do here, so I mean this is, you would think would be a straight pull and
that is great. I just want to make sure that we are not messing anything up in
terms of what the ordinance, and that is the Council's responsibility I get that.
And so whether we direct that in this particular section or not, they are going to
have to do it anyway, so, okay.
MR. HENRICKS: Just to be clear, the Council wouldn't have to do anything, it
would be good housekeeping to remove it from the Code. It could stay in there
and cause some confusion, but it is not necessarily something that is required.
CHR. ADAMS: Sure.
MS. TODD: Chairman.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Todd.
MS. TODD: Historically, after an election, the current County Clerk will review
what passed in terns of amendments to the Charter and usually provides
infonnation to the County Council about what passed, what provisions were
impacted, and then the Council can then determine whether they need to do
amendments to incorporate language, repeal language that is not in compliance,
and that's historically what has occurred. The Council has then made a decision
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on what they are going to do. And then sometimes they have expanded and gone
beyond. You know the Charier may say we want you to do A, B, and C, and
sometimes they decide "well, let's add D, E, and F." And they go beyond and add
additional duties.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay.
MS. TODD: But there is a report. They are informed of what has occurred, and it
is usually done by the County Clerk.
CHR. ADAMS: Great. Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: I apologize again. What's your opinion on this $20 million?
MS. SAKO: Twenty million? That's probably a better target than the $10
million we have, but you know we do have it in the County Code, and the County
Code can always be amended as well. So, I am not clear that it has to be a
Charter provision, but if you are just asking about the $20 million that is probably
a good target.
MR. ROEHRIG: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: I would entertain a motion to change, to amend the Charter
Amendment No. 17, to change 13(7) to six and B(8) to seven.
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Chair, I do appreciate that, but if this should pass initial
approval...
CHR. ADAMS: Right.
MR. HENRICKS: We will just correct it because it is in a draft form to correct
the numbering.
CHR. ADAMS: Great.
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Less votes. I would make one more, I guess, oh, Commissioner
Zelko, sorry.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Thanks. You know this is a, this particular
amendment, I mean I like the idea of having to put money aside because it
becomes your priority as long as, you know I worry about cuts to first responders,
you know, to those kinds of services that we need. So it is just my concern with
the budget you know, can they handle it?
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Todd.
MS. TODD: Yeah, Mr. Chair. To some extent that is kind of a political question
because the Mayor prepares a budget and depending on the projected salaries and
wages of the existing employees, the funds necessary to pay in to the retirement
system, the funds necessary to pay for the benefits of the employees to pay for the
existing bonds, they take a look at the proposed revenues and they put a budget
together based on that, and it may entail if they have specific set asides that they
may propose a property tax raise, they may propose streamlining or telling
departments... I have lived through the County where we were told "cut your
discretionary spending ten percent, cut your overtime so much", so like this past
year, one move that the County did to cut their expenses in one department,
Enviromnental Management, and whether you like this or not, they decided to
close for an additional I think it was 10 days a year on holidays and it saved the
Department substantial overtime money and that is how they you know, without
cutting a lot of services, by a de minirnis cut they had a significant impact because
it, that cut in services reduced their overtime budget significantly and yet you
know, people adjust to the days that you are closed.
And, we have, I guess I have a different view of real property taxes than a lot of
people do and maybe that is because I am getting old. And, I have told this story
before and people sometimes don't understand the point I am trying to get to. In
1989 when my husband and I bought our house and the valuation of the house
was 87... $90,000 our real property taxes and I went and dug up the bill... that
year was $700, a little over $700 in 1989. Okay I am in the same house, it is
2019, and the County has cut the property taxes so much and provided
exemptions and provided a three percent cap, and provided an owner -occupant
classification, that this year I will pay $500... in 2019, 1989 I paid over $700, I
think there are areas of the tax code that the County needs to take a look at and I
personally think that we went too far in that direction. When I am paying less
than I paid 30 years ago on a house that is valued significantly higher than what it
was then. And so, I happen to think that there is room in the tax code. I think that
if you just bought a house last year, then the prospect that you are going to pay a
little bit more may hit you harder, but when I look at the fact that I am paying less
than I paid 30 years ago, I think that there is some room for adjustment of the tax
rates. Because these are services that we need to address and I don't want to say
that well, we can't plan ahead and get caught with our pants down. Because you
know, the political question of whether you are going to adjust the tax rates or
pass the GET increase to fund certain things for the County. Government and the
government services cost money and sometimes you don't see the value in them,
but I think that that is a decision that has to be done by the Council on a yearly
basis. I just feel like I am proposing this because I kind of want to force the
County to plan for future disasters, and I think that if they have to raise my taxes
personally I am not opposed to that. Because you know what is the value of
preparation? One time that a police officer comes to my street to address a
disturbance, that alone is worth more than the $500 that I pay per year.
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Thanks Commissioner Todd. Alright, let's take a voice vote on
this particular Charter Amendment. So, the motion is to approve Charter
Amendment No. 17 on initial approval. All in favor of the motion please signify
by saying "aye"(aye), any opposed? None opposed. The vote should be 9-0, with
Commissioners Saquing and Galimba excused.
Vote on Motion The motion to pass CA -17 on initial approval was carried by the following
To Approve CA -17 voice vote:
(Approved):
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hamann, Hopkins,
Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Todd,
Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 9
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Galimba and Saquing — 2
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: Moving on to Communication No. 35, transmitting Charter
Amendment No. 18 for Initial Approval; Proposal to amend Section 10-16, Public
Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Maintenance Fund, to
transfer administrative duties to the Department of Finance, add permissible uses
of the fund, and establish a base amount that must be reserved for awards to
stewardship organizations; as submitted by Commissioner Rice. Is there a
motion?
MS. RICE: I move to approve.
CHR. ADAMS: There's a motion to approve Charter Amendment No. 18 on
Initial Approval, is there a second?
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Second.
CHR. ADAMS: It has been moved by Commissioner Rice, seconded by
Commissioner Zelko. Discussion?
Commissioner- Rice.
MS. RICE: I have a question. I have... in speaking to, directly to a stewardship
group, I got some input that would require some minor amendment, so I am not
sure of the procedure here. Shall I talk about it first?
CHR. ADAMS: If you, you can go directly to amendment if you would like.
That is entirely up to you.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MS. RICE: Okay. Well, I will just say briefly on CA -18 because there has been
quite a bit of testimony on it, that it gives the stewardship groups more flexibility
in accomplishing their purpose, which of course is to restore and improve the
areas that they are undertaking to work on and we have included the PONC in a
couple of places where they would be more involved in managing and looking at
what was being done on them, but you can see the underline in 10, 11, and 12,
and what I would like to do is make an amendment in 11, and 12, and add
"building and installation". Evidentially especially in the rainy areas, where they
have used pop up tents, and other means of shelter, the winds blow then over and
they are not satisfactory when they are trying to work in the areas, and I have
another amendment. Shall I do the two together? They are a little different.
CHR. ADAMS: Then, yeah, let's, is... so, the amendment, let's do two separate
amendments.
MS. RICE: Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay, so this amendment is on (g) (11).
MS. RICE: Correct.
CHR. ADAMS: And (g) (12)...
MS. RICE: Correct.
CHR. ADAMS: And so, 11 would read "Building and installation of small
sheds."
MS. RICE: Correct.
CHR. ADAMS: And then 12 would read "Building, installation and maintenance
of structures."
MS. RICE: Correct.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second to this amendment, this motion to amend?
MR. ROEHRIG: Second.
CHR. ADAMS: It has been seconded by Commissioner Roehrig. Do you have
any further discussion?
MS. RICE: No. Just that from a practical standpoint they need to be able to
construct as well as install.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Alright, so voice vote on this particular amendment, all in favor
of the motion to amend, please signify by saying "aye" (aye), any opposed?
Motion passes 9-0, with Commissioners Saquing and Galirnba excused.
Vote on Motion The motion to amend CA -18 was carried by the following voice vote:
To Amend CA -18
(Approved): Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hamann, Hopkins,
Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Todd,
Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams — 9
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Galimba and Saquing — 2
Excused: None.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Rice.
MS. RICE: Okay on the, on (h), which discusses the... reserving the seventy
percent for the stewardship organizations, it has come to my attention that the way
we have written it, or the way 1 have written it, is, would be seventy percent of
each year's appropriation, but I would like to change that so that it would
encompass seventy percent of the fund in the event that some of that money flows
over into the following year is reserved, so the amendment would be "at least
seventy percent of the money in this fund shall be reserved for stewardship grants
to qualifying stewardship organizations each year." The amendment would be
adding "in this fund" and "each year".
CHR. ADAMS: Let me make sure, if it is okay, let me make sure I understand
for clarification purposes, (h) would read "at least seventy percent of the monies
in this fund shall be reserved for stewardship grants to qualifying stewardship
organizations each year."
MS. RICE: Correct, because if it is just the appropriation, then if there is already
money in the fund, it would only be... so what they want to be sure...
CHR. ADAMS: Okay before we do that, is there a second to this amendment?
MS. RICE: Sony.
CHR. ADAMS: For discussion, I will second. Go ahead.
MS. RICE: Okay.
MR. HOPKINS: I was just going to second it.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay, Commissioner Hopkins seconds it then.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MR. HOPKINS: For discussion.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay, great.
MS. RICE: Okay, so all it does is it makes the bigger pot of money available for
the seventy percent stewardship grants, rather than...
CHR. ADAMS: I see what you are saying.
MS. RICE: Rather than delineating it just for that year's appropriation.
CHR. ADAMS: Right. The way it is currently phrased, it is seventy percent of
the appropriation, not seventy percent of the fund.
MS. RICE: Correct.
CHR. ADAMS: I see.
MR. HOPKINS: Clarification, so what we are doing...
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: Taking the words "of each year's fiscal, each fiscal year's
appropriation."
MS. RICE: Correct.
CHR, ADAMS: And adding...
MS. RICE: In this fund.
CHR. ADAMS: Of monies...
MS. RICE: Of money in...
CHR. ADAMS: Of monies in this fund.
MR. HOPKINS: Of monies in this fund, yeah.
MS. RICE: And each year.
CHR. ADAMS: At the end.
MR. HENRICKS: Each year is going at the end?
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: Correct.
MR. HENRICKS: Are you sure about that?
MR. HOPKINS: You know that is sort of confusing.
MR. HENRICKS: It seems a bit awkward.
MR. HOPKINS: Yeah.
MR. HENRICKS: I am not on the mic, I am just throwing that out there.
MS. RICE: That's okay. You can be on the mic. So...
MR. HENRICKS: Maybe it works out (inaudible). If it doesn't work we will
figure it out later.
MS. RICE: Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay, any other discussion? Any other discussion on this
particular amendment?
Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: I don't have anything.
CHR. ADAMS: Oh, okay. Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: At least seventy percent in this fund shall be reserved. They are
adding the each year, I have a problem with adding the each year because it
means that you have to be funneling out seventy percent each year and it may be
that that you may want to carryover and get a larger amount for a particular year
for something else, or you are going to have to split it. I just have a problem with
putting that restriction on in each year.
MS. RICE: Okay, I follow you. I think what I was trying to accomplish here was
just to make sure that when the seventy percent of the total monies went to the
stewardship grants.
CHR. ADAMS: Mr. J, I am so sorry.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: I am going to get to a one.. okay...
CHR. ADAMS: Hey, it is just like Beyonce' and Cher okay?
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MR. YOSHIMOTO: I was going to raise the point that Commissioner Hopkins
raised right, because you gotta, well, I think we need to be aware of what the
effect is if you have something that you want to... a bigger expense, a bathroom
facility is going to be expensive right? But if every year you have to keep seventy
percent of the base, and every year theoretically you could spend it all, then you
would never really have that much money in the fund. Then you gotta pay for the
staff person and so...
MS. RICE: Right.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: And so, if that is the desired effect, that is okay, but if you
know...
MS. RICE: No.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Okay, well...
MS. RICE: You're right.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Okay.
MS. RICE: So if I scratched, if I take "each year" out there and simply leave it as
"at least seventy percent of the money in this fund shall be reserved" without
putting a time thing on it...
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Chair may I hopefully not make this any more
cumbersome than it is?
CHR. ADAMS: Please.
MR. HENRICKS: And I just want it for the record so everybody understands
what your amendment is. Currently the language reads that there is an
appropriation each year and it's point two five percent of the certified real
property taxes and would currently read that seventy percent of that appropriation
would be reserved to award grants to eligible organizations, but you want to
change that so that seventy percent of whatever the funding amount is as it carries
over every year, is reserved for that purpose.
MS. RICE: So, yes.
MR. HENRICKS: And what Mr. Yoshimoto is saying, I think was independent
of whether or not it is each year here or each year there, it was just more of a
general comment on this proposal in its total form.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: Yes, because what I am concerned about is that this may in
effect deplete the fund every year, because every year you are putting aside
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
seventy percent of the total amount in the fund so at any given year, you would
only have thirty percent, but if you spend seventy percent of the fund every year
then you never really accumulate money to do say like a bathroom facility or
things of... I am thinking that's, I mean that is my concern. I don't... maybe you
want to bring up our Finance Director since she is better with numbers.
CHR. ADAMS: Without objection, Director Sako would be willing to come up.
(Note: At this time, Director Deanna Sako carne forward to address the members
of the Commission.)
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you once again for being up here.
MS. SAKO: No problem.
CHR. ADAMS: So the basic question is...
MS. RICE: What I am trying to accomplish...
CHR. ADAMS: Can you put your mic on please?
MS. RICE: Oh, sorry.
CHR. ADAMS: That's okay.
MS. RICE: What I am trying to accomplish is that seventy percent of the monies
from the point two five go to the stewardship grant.
MS. SAKO: Mrnrn hmrn.
MS. RICE: And then... so that, but, sometimes it will depend on when those
monies are disbursed, when the grants are approved, and they could flow over
from year to year.
MS. SAKO: Yes, sometimes the timing does confuse it as to which year that
would be, which therefore makes this kind of confusing for me to even be able to
implement because we do have different funding years, and different grant years,
and what not, and in the off chance that for some reason, we don't get any
stewardship grants in a given year, then I still am supposed to set aside seventy
percent, yet then the County would have no money to go in and maybe do at least
the bare minimum that we need to do to maintain the properties, so that is just
some of the issues that are going through my mind right now.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MS. RICE: I don't follow you. Because if you save the seventy percent in year
one just for... and then, but in year one you are not going to disperse the seventy
percent for whatever reason...
MS. SAKO: Yes.
MS. RICE: That means that that seventy percent accumulates for year two, and
then in addition you are going to get more money in year two, up to the cap.
MS. SAKO: Yes, I will have plenty of money to give out for stewardship grants,
but in the chance that we do not have non -profits applying, and therefore wanting
to maintain the properties, then the County would also be restricted from using it
because now it has been specified specifically for stewardship grants.
MS. RICE: That's correct.
MS. SAKO: Yes.
MS. RICE: Okay. That is actually the way I want it. Which I realize the County
is not happy with.
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Hopkins.
MS. RICE: But, we want to reserve it for the stewardship.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: A question for, how much is point two -five percent?
MS. SAKO: Of the real property taxes right now?
MR. HOPKINS: Yes.
MS. SAKO: So the two percent is a little over $6 million, so one-eighth of that is
roughly $750,000.
MR. HOPKINS: So thirty percent of that would be about $200,000 left to the
County, and $500,000 or $550,000 would be going to stewardship grants.
MS. SAKO: And I am not worried when we have plenty of applicants, and yes,
that's fine.
MR. HOPKINS: My concern is as your statement there is, if we have a problem,
$200,000, when you have taken out the money for the staff people that you are
already paying for, it doesn't take much when you pay salaries and benefits and
other things there for you can... for you to be taking out... for thein to very
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
quickly use up everything, so everything else goes to stewardship grants and we
very clearly... the County is going to have to... there are going to be many cases
where the County is going to be needing to do the maintenance and if this is the
way that it is set up, it means that if we don't have a stewardship group there, that
maintenance is not going to get done even though the money... even though we
have money. It means that only where people are applying are we going to get...
only where the groups are there, that's the only place that the money is going to
go and what happens to the rest of the things that we have spent all of this money
acquiring that we have problems with? I don't know how many stewardship grant
people are going to be wanting to run fences and repair things like that for some
of the really hard work it is going to have to be contracted because you know I
have worked with enough groups before that some of the really hard stuff we
would end up having to go to contractors even though we have groups that want
to do that.
MS. RICE: That's allowed by the stewardship group to spend their money on
those contractors.
MR. HOPKINS: Okay, I ...
MS. RICE: And the money for the staff will come out of the two percent, not the
point two five.
MS. SAKO: So, one of the things you know right now we are very fortunate. We
have the stewardship groups corning forward to apply and everything, but you
know when we put it in the Charter, to me it is like a forever thing and I can't
guarantee that the stewardship groups will continue to be around or be as helpful,
or continue to apply and you know we... you know, if the staff provision gets
approved by the voters and what not then we will have those costs, but in addition
one of the big things that most of the lands want are a restroom, or porta potties or
something, so to preserve the land and not you know, not have other things
happening there, and that is all going to cost money and if we have stewardship
organizations great, but if not, then those things are not going to get done.
MS. RICE: So, what if we added that in the event that there were no stewardship
groups, that some of that money could be used for the County? In the event that
there were no stewardship groups?
CHR. ADAMS: Right, so we are getting into the... it seems that we are moving
from discussion into potential amendments.
MS. RICE: Okay. Well yeah, okay. Right.
CHR. ADAMS: Right, and so there are a couple of things that we can do. We
can... We are on an amendment right now. Right.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MR. HOPKINS: (inaudible) amendment. Number (h)...
MS. RICE: We are in discussion on this amendment.
CHR. ADAMS: We are in discussion on (h), that's correct. So there is an
amendment on the table. It is to change the current wording on (h), but now there
seems to be further discussion about how that is all supposed to fit. So if you
would like to... so let me ask you what you would like to do. Would you like to
take (h) and rework it with the potential talking to the Director? Do you think you
could do that in a few minutes or would you rather we just vote on this and move
along?
MS. RICE: No. Let's work on it.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay.
MS. RICE: I would like to get it right and then vote on it.
CHR. ADAMS: So, there is the other option, to postpone this particular vote. I
think that would mean we would probably postpone the remainder of the
conversation on 18 and then take it back up in, during the next regularly
scheduled meeting.
MS. RICE: That's fine. But can I hear from the other... cause they may have
some ideas.
CHR. ADAMS: Yes. Sure.
Commissioner Todd.
MS. TODD: I guess this is a separate question and I will take it up with legal
counsel later because I had some concerns about Chapter 76 and 77 and its
application.
CHR. ADAMS: Are you talking about in ordinance?
MS. TODD: No. I am talking about State law.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay.
MS. TODD: So, I'll take it up with Counsel later.
CHR. ADAMS: So, Commissioner Roehrig.
MR. ROEHRIG: How about we just take (h) out and then just leave it up to the
Deanna Sako to handle it which they do anyway.
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Hawaii County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: So, to do that, to make that amendment we would need to finish
the work that we are doing right now on (h) which would mean we would need to
vote on the amendment that is on the floor before we would consider your
amendment.
Commissioner Hopkins.
MR. HOPKINS: Back to the other one say before referring it over to legal
counsel on the other questions and I am not sure what Chapters that
Commissioner Todd was refen-ing to but I have my concerns and I am not sure
how it works in here. Are we allocating jobs that are normally done by civil
servants if that is what you are referring to? I had that concern too. Are we
going to get in trouble with the union that we are outsourcing govenunent jobs?
MS. TODD: Mr. Chairman Adams, may I respond?
CHR. ADAMS: Commissioner Todd.
MS. TODD: I had some concerns because there are specific requirements in HRS
(Hawai`i Revised Statutes) and there are exemptions for non -profits, I just wanted
clarification on the provisions of civil service law and because I am looking at
some of these functions and they do look like the stuff that is normally done by
civil servants,
CHR. ADAMS: Right. So, Commissioner...
MS. TODD: I am a little concerned.
CHR. ADAMS: We are now moving beyond the scope of the amendment.
MS. TODD: That's why I said I'd wait.
CHR. ADAMS: Right I understand. You were answering a question that was
posed to you, alright. So we are in amendment. I would, I think that the...
without objection I would like to postpone this. I would like to entertain a motion
to postpone the vote on this amendment that should allow Commissioner Rice the
opportunity to have a conversation to rework those things that she needs to
rework and then we can take this back up again in our regularly scheduled
meeting.
MS. RICE: That would be great.
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Chairman before you proceed, are you asking for a
postponement on the proposal or a postponement on this specific amendment to
(h)?
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
CHR. ADAMS: So, I, right now we are on the amendment to (h), so that would
be the postponement.
MR. HENRICKS: And that's not...
CHR. ADAMS: I can't do that?
MR. HENRICKS: No. You can't postpone a secondary motion like that. It
would have to be withdrawn to... yeah, it stops the whole process.
CHR. ADAMS: Well on 18, and that is the purpose.
MR. HENRICKS: Yes, you would be postponing the main motion which is to
pass CA -18 on initial approval.
CHR. ADAMS: That's correct.
MR. HENRICKS: Okay. I just wanted to make sure.
CHR. ADAMS: Yeah, in other words we would be stopping 18 right now.
MR. HENRICKS: Yes.
MS. RICE: I understand that.
CHR. ADAMS: And that is what you understand right?
MS. RICE: 1 do.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. So, the idea would be to postpone the vote on the
amendment which at the same time stops all work on 18. And you're good?
MS. RICE: I am good.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay.
MS. RICE: And I will work with affected parties to ...
CHR. ADAMS: So there is a...
MS. RICE: Re -do this. I do have a question though.
CHR. ADAMS: Well, one second. We have a variety of conversation items
going on right now so, let me take Mr. Hamann. You have a question on the
procedure?
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
Withdraw motion
To amend CA -18
As amended:
MR. HAMANO: I think if we want to accomplish what we have talked about, I
think perhaps we should withdraw the motion to amend and then move to
postpone the decision on CA whatever it is, yeah, 18.
CHR. ADAMS: Okay. I understand what you are telling me. That way we are
still on the main motion and we can...
MR. HAMANO: Yeah.
MS. RICE: (inaudible) that amendment.
CHR. ADAMS: We have already voted on the other amendment.
MR. HAMANO: Yeah.
CHR. ADAMS: So that amendment has already been voted on.
MS. RICE: Okay.
CHR. ADAMS: The first one right? That is still... that's done. This is, 18 is
amended. So the question would be would you be willing to withdraw your
motion to amend?
MS. RICE: I'll withdraw my motion to amend.
CHR. ADAMS: And remind me who was the second.
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Hopkins.
CHR. ADAMS: You also withdraw? Alright. So the motion has been withdrawn.
We are back on to the main motion. Charter Amendment No. 18 as amended.
Ms. Rice announced the withdrawal of motion to amend CA -18,
as amended.
CHR. ADAMS: I would entertain a motion to postpone Charter Amendment 18
as amended.
MR. HAMANO: So moved.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second?
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MS. RICE: Second.
CHR. ADAMS: Alright. It has been moved and seconded to postpone Charter
Amendment 18 as amended. All in favor of the motion.
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Chair, I am so sorry. You are making excellent progress.
The maker of the motion second and postponed to the next regularly scheduled
meeting?
CHR. ADAMS: Correct.
MR. HENRICKS: And the motion was made by Mr...
CHR. ADAMS: Mr.... Commissioner Hamano.
MR. HENRICKS: Made the motion?
CHR. ADAMS: Correct. The second was by Commissioner Rice.
MR. HENRICKS: Okay. To the next regularly scheduled meeting?
CHR. ADAMS: That's correct.
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: All in favor of the motion to postpone, please signify by saying
"aye" (aye), all opposed or any opposed? The motion passes 9-0 with
Cormnissioners Saquing and Galimba excused.
Vote on Motion The motion to postpone CA -18, as ameded, was carried by the following
To Postpone voice vote:
CA -7., Draft 2
(Approved): Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Harnano, Hopkins, Rice,
Roehrig, Springer, Todd, Zelko-Schlueter,
and Chair Adams — 9
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Galimba and Saquing — 2
Excused: None.
MS. RICE: Thank you.
CHR. ADAMS: Thank you.
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
REPORTS: The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
Reports.
CHR. ADAMS: We have none.
REFERRALS FOR The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
EXECUTIVE Executive Session.
SESSION:
AGENDA ITEMS
FOR NEXT
REGULARLY
SCHEDULED
MEETING:
CHR. ADAMS: Any referrals for Executive Session? We have none.
The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of business,
agenda items for next regularly scheduled meeting
CHR. ADAMS: Agenda items for next regularly scheduled meeting, any
suggestions from the Commissioners on future agenda items?
MEETING The Chair directed the Commission to proceed to the next order of
ANNOUNCEMENT: business, Meeting Announcement.
CHR. ADAMS: Announcement, our next regularly scheduled meeting is a month
from today amazingly enough, March 8th. The time would be 1:30 p.m. Is there
any desire to change that?
MR. ROEHRIG: Eleven sounds good.
MS. RICE: Yeah, eleven is good.
MS. TODD: The Friday in Kona?
CHR. ADAMS: Yes it would be in Kona. It would be in Kona. So, do we need
to take a vote on that? We do right, because that is a change of regularly
scheduled time?
MR. HENRICKS: No need. Just made the announcement last time. I don't
believe there was a vote. It is just, Mr. Yoshimoto...
CHR. ADAMS: It is a change of our, or our...
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MR. HENRICKS: You could make a motion to suspend the rules.
CHR. ADAMS: Right.
MR. HENRICKS: And then, well, I don't really know if it is a rule suspension.
No, I am just going to say that last time that there was a decision to hold this
meeting earlier, there was no vote on it. So perhaps it is best just to follow
course. That's my...
CHR. ADAMS: Alright.
MR. HENRICKS: That's my recollection. J is that your recollection, there was
no vote?
MR. YOSHIMOTO: I don't recall a vote but there was general consensus that
that is what they wanted to do.
MR. HENRICKS: And it was on the record.
MR. YOSHIMOTO: As long as the body agrees with it and there is no
objections, I don't see an issue.
CHR. ADAMS: So, it would end up being eleven o'clock, Friday, March 8th, in
Building A of the West Hawaii Civic Center in Kailua Kona. Alright. That is
the announcement on the next regular meeting. I would remind Commissioners
that I have been asked by several folks as to the deadline for submitting proposals.
So, I would couch my answer in this way, we have, 1 have been saying that
probably April, the April regularly scheduled meeting following the public
hearings would be the deadline for submitting proposals. That is if we don't have
any other additional meetings that we schedule. So that means April meeting
would be the initial approval, May meeting would be first reading, the June
meeting would be second reading prior to us sending the report and all the
proposals that have passed second reading on to the Council before the 28th of
June. So, if there is something that pops up we can always schedule a special
meeting but for the moment, April is the deadline for submission of proposals. As
far as the March meeting is concerned, I would ask you, I would remind you that
it is 11 days prior to the March 8th meeting that proposals would need to be in
and so that would be I think February 25th or something like that. Given that it
would be March 25th and it is exactly 28 days before that. So, proposals by
March 25th. I would ask you not to wait because my guess is that we will have a
number of those in and we don't want to have our staff all of a sudden inundated
at the last minute, if you can at all do that.
Alright. Do I have a motion to adjourn?
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Hawai`i County Charter Commission -8 February 8, 2019
MS. RICE: So moved.
CHR. ADAMS: Is there a second?
MS. TODD: Second.
CHR. ADAMS: Motion by Commissioner Rice, seconded by Commissioner
Todd. All in favor please say "aye" (aye), any opposed? Motion passes 9-0 with
Commissioners Galimba and Saquing excused. Thank you everyone and 1 really
appreciate your hard, hard work.
MS. RICE: Thank you, for your good guidance.
MR. ROEHRIG: Thank you everyone.
Vote on Motion There being no further business, at 4:00 p.m. Commissioner Rice moved that
Adjourn the meeting be adjourned. Seconded by Commissioner Todd and carried by
(Approved): the following voice vote:
Ayes: Commissioners Bergin, Hamano, Hopkins,
Rice, Roehrig, Springer, Todd,
Zelko-Schlueter, and Chair Adams -- 9
Noes: None.
Absent: Commissioners Galimba and Saquing — 2
Excused: None.
Commission Approval: March 8, 2019
ss Shipman Ains, Chair
0 Hawai`i County Charter Commission
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