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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PWMTC 2020/09/15 2018-2020 Committee on Public Works and Mass Transit 26th Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii September 15, 2020 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Public Works and Mass Transit ORDER: was called to order at 10:58 a.m. in the Council Chambers, Hilo, Hawaii, by Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Chair Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member (via videoconference from Kona) Ms. Karen Eoff, Member (via videoconference from Kona) Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member(via videoconference from Waimea) Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member Absent& Excused: Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) CHR. LEE LOY: Mr. Clerk, if we could please move into Communications. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 1057: REQUESTS AN UPDATE FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS, TRAFFIC DIVISION, REGARDING ONGOING TRAFFIC SIGNAL ISSUES From Council Member Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, dated August 24, 2020. Motion to Close File: Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to close file on Comm. 1057. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz. CHR. LEE LOY: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, please lead the discussion. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo, Chair. This communication is just to kind of a follow-up to what I did earlier this year. We've had some different PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 challenges regarding signaling. And I think this goes beyond Puna and this goes for the whole island, so I'm hoping any Council Members can use this opportunity to discuss traffic signals in their district that may need attention or that they're having challenges with and brought forward by their constituents. I've ask Aaron Takaba to be here today, from Traffic Division and Public Works. Aaron, can you hear me? (Note: At this time, Traffic Division Chief Aaron Takaba and Signal and Street Light Section Supervisor Kason Pacheco, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. LEE LOY: We're going to put the meeting in recess to try and iron out some of this connection. The meeting is in recess. Recess: The Chair called for a recess at 11:01 a.m. Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 11:02 a.m. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. With that, I'm going to take the meeting out of recess. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, you have the floor. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo, Chair. Aaron, thanks for joining us today. MR. TAKABA: Yeah, you're welcome. No problem. And I have also Kason here, he's from the Traffic Division. He's a supervisor for the section, as well. So he's here. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wonderful. Just checking up on a few of these different areas. Thank you, Kason, for joining today, as well. So for my district, specifically I look at the main intersections. I think the last time we had spoken, we had kind of a long-standing issue at Highway 130 and Highway 11 intersection. It was an outstanding challenge that you guys took on, and I think you fixed it in a matter of hours. I really appreciated that. Has there been any more issues with that traffic signal in general? MR. TAKABA: Well, right now we're still trying to—we have a temporary traffic camera, detection camera, installed and running, and that was kind of our solution in the meantime. And we're still trying to get our contractor out to install the permanent detection, so we're working with the State on the permit to do that work so that's where we are right now with that. But I think as of right now it seems to be working okay with the camera in place. Page 2 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Oh, you know what,just for sake of asking, cameras versus physical detection? You know, what is better? What is the most up-to-date technology we can be using? MR. TAKABA: Well, there's kind of a couple of ways of thinking about it. As far as with the loops, the loops that you see in the ground, they've been kind of around for a while and they're more reliable. In my opinion, they seem to work better. They take a little bit more to install, and they have less flexibility. You know, once you install it, they're kind of there, so you've got to kind of plan ahead and make sure you put in the ground what you really want. But like I mentioned, they're reliable. When it comes to the cameras, they're fairly newer technology and they've come a long way I guess over the years. They have more flexibility, because if you want to adjust the zone, you can do that through your computer from your desk or even onsite if you want to. But there are some challenges sometimes with lighting that we have. It's kind of like another piece of electronics that we're dealing with. So it's a little there's some challenges like any type of electronic that you might have, like a PC (personal computer) or something like that. There's some problems that we need to deal with. There are pluses and minuses to it, to both. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay, thank you. It seems like—and just from my electrical background, any time you putting something in the ground and especially in the middle of the highway, that has a potential to break. That can be kind of a lengthy undertaking to have fixed. And I'm guessing I'm hearing that, too, from your answer about getting permission from the State to work within the highway. So if we have technology that can be used that has been proven in the field that is not in the ground, I think that might be a good way to move forward, I'm not sure. Has there been any direction from the administration on, you know, any technology that should be promoted first versus over others? MR. TAKABA: Well, actually we are looking at the cameras, to use them more extensively. We're evaluating them right now at a few locations, and just trying to make sure that it's something that we want to invest in. But if anything, that's probably the direction we would go in, other than the loops that you see currently. And like you said, I think that is true, in a way, that when you have road construction, the cameras wouldn't be affected because they're up on the mast, on the arm, the actual signal arm, so they're unaffected by the paving; so that is another plus. So yeah, if anything, it would be the cameras that we're looking at, maybe to use more in the future. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Those seem to be a fairly smart as far as technology, and they can actually sense the amount of cars that are stacked up, and Page 3 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 then call for the signal to switch. So it's a I like it. I think it's a good solution going forward. MR. TAKABA: Yeah. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I've had a lot of constituents calling about the Shower intersection at(Highway) 130. Are there any issues? Or is there any way to adjust that pattern to allow for more flow on the Highway 130, towards Hilo and towards Pahoa? Or are there any challenges that you're looking at with that intersection in general? MR. TAKABA: Well, I think Kason maybe can fill you in, in a little bit on the schedule. But we're looking at doing some timing adjustments for one. The State had also mentioned there was a concern with the left-turning vehicles. Actually, it's outside of the contraflow is when the problem occurs, is when that left-turn from Pohaku Street and the right turns from Shower, are turning into the one-lane, there's a little of confusion there, so they're asking about possible changes to the signal. So that's something that we've got to discuss with the State, I think, going forward. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Is there MR. TAKABA: And, Kason, you want to mention about timing? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go ahead, Kason. MR. PACHECO: Yes, I'm going to look at the timing-plans in that area and make adjustments at each intersection with the timing plan. You're saying that they want more green time on the main. Is that what—? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I am responding to a lot of constituent concerns regarding how far traffic is backing up towards Pahoa on Highway 130. There's just a lot of frustration there, so anything we can do to help alleviate that for our residents would be much appreciated. MR. PACHECO: Okay. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Is there any problems with the light right now or has it been in the past? I'm just trying to wrap my head around how come we're seeing kind of intermittent stacks of traffic. MR. PACHECO: Yeah, I guess traffic in general is always changing. So, yeah, we can look at maybe like the peak. The peak rush hour, why is it causing so much backup? So there might be some changes we can do in the field. Page 4 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Is it broken right now or isn't working? Is it functioning properly? MR. PACHECO: As far as I know it's working, yeah, for that intersection. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, that's good to know. Then main thing, yeah, take a look at the timing and adjust if necessary so that we can keep that flow moving. I've been in that traffic towards mid-day and, you know, with the amount of people that pass through these intersections, you know, these are well-used intersections. I remember(Highways) 130 and 11 being close to 50,000 people a day, and those are really large numbers. Puna's not a small district anymore. We're heavily populated and a lot of these main thoroughfares are used very, very much. Sorry, for a lack of a better word. So yeah, whatever you can do to help with traffic concerns in that area, specifically at that Shower intersection, I would appreciate that. Thank you. MR. PACHECO: Okay. MR. TAKABA: Alright, we'll look at it. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, mahalo for your time today, guys. I appreciate it, and I yield. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. I'm going to check over in Kona. Does anyone have questions for Aaron or Kason? MS. DAVID: Chair, no thank you. Oh wait, hang on. Ms. Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Aloha. Yes, thank you so much. I was just hoping for a quick update. Aaron, we spoke—gosh, I don't know where the time goes, it's all melding together in the `rona(coronavirus). But when—last, I believe, you were here before Council, we had kind of had a brief conversation about updating and improvements to the streetlights, not streetlights but the stoplight technologies, here in West Hawaii. You know, with the extreme downturn in tourism and our keiki, basically most going to school from home,we don't have the current traffic—we don't have the traffic issues that we had last year. However, it also seems an opportune time to take a look at our stoplights and the technologies there and where they're at and aligning them with abilities to communicate with another to keep traffic flowing smoothly. And I just wondered if you could I've seen some work done at different intersections. Wasn't sure exactly what projects they were working on, but I was hoping you might be able to share where we're at with those improvements. Page 5 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 MR. TAKABA: Okay. Well, we do have a project to coordinate the signals on Queen K (Ka`ahumanu) and various corridors in Kona. That project was put on hold because part of what we need to do—well, the next step would be to implement the plans and then to observe how it's helping or affecting traffic. So, we have that on hold. We probably need to follow up with the consultant and discuss when they should come back and start doing that. But they're coming from Oahu and possibly from the mainland, so we have some challenges with them at this point with finishing the project. So we have that kind of on our radar. And we're also looking at possibly using some—implementing some new technology, which coincidentally would require the use of the detection cameras that I've mentioned earlier. So we're looking at what's called possibly looking at what's called "adaptive control,"which would allow the signals toI think you had mentioned this before, you had heard about that technology, where the signals can MS. VILLEGAS: Yes, the adaptive. MR. TAKABA: The adaptive. Yeah, correct. So that's something we're talking to the State with. But primarily the main corridor,the State intersections. But they really are interested in it, as well. So it's something that we were discussing with them. It's going maybe similar to what they've done in Oahu, on Nimitz, to a degree, you know, something like that. Yeah, along that line. But yeah, it's going to require an upgrading or a detection to cameras. So, that's part of it. But it's something we have maybe in a longer range, but something we're looking at, as well. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, thank you. Now as the State looks to transition to adaptive technologies on the State highways, are we as a County looking to make sure that—you know, for the side roads and the feeder roads, it seems that it's going to be imperative that those roads and those stoplights are running off of compatible and connected technologies, as well. So I know that part of this will be State, but ensuring that—we've got Kuakini Highway, and we've got Lako, and we've got—you know, and a different intersection points of that, on Henry Street as well,just want to make sure it's being there's holistic look at all of the streetlights and how they could all connect and communicate with one another in that adaptive technology. And is that something that's being kind of taken into consideration? MR. TAKABA: Yes, Kason can maybe go into detail about the locations we're looking at, but we also are looking at some corridors that are County; like Kuakini, the lower—where it connects with Palani Road and that area. So Kuakini was one. Kason, you want to mention the rest of the list of County roads? MR. PACHECO: Yeah. So Kuakini, the corridor over there, we're looking at that one. And also on the east side, Kawili Street, by the college, all the way down to Page 6 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 Kilauea intersection along Kawili Street, we're looking at that. And then Henry Street, we can also look at that one, too. MS. VILLEGAS: Great. Thank you so much. Yeah, I just I feel likeI'm really hopeful that some of these technologies would be able to ease some of the backups that happen. And this is just a prime time, you know, while it's challenging, to bring the consultants over and whatnot. I also wondered, do we have electrical engineers on the staff within Traffic who can help on that, at a more local level, in the interim? MR. TAKABA: Well,primarily we have one electrical engineer. But primarily the work is being done by us, like Kason, he's a civil, as well as myself, and the electricians on the ground actually doing the work, a lot of the work, as well as our price-term contractor that assists as needed. So it's kind of a combination of different disciplines I guess you could say that do it. But yes, to answer your question, we do have one electrical engineer on staff that assists us. MS. VILLEGAS: Oh great. Fantastic. I just had heard that person is extremely talented, and that their insights and abilities to identify technologies and utilizing them, which is always great when we can rely on those, currently within our staff and the administration. Especially in this time of corona virus, when traveling for external support is a little bit hindered. And then my otherIactually yesterday I was on the phone with a member of the Police Commission who represents my district. One of the concerns that's come up for them is—I'll do my best to explain this—essentially when you're turning, let's take for instance on Palani Road, you know, we have these really kind of—which is great, we have these wider roads now. And as you're turning, it was recommended that potentially those islands that—some of the striping in the streets aren't as bold and bright as they could be. And that there was a recommendation of potentially painting the curbs on the ends of the islands, perhaps white or yellow or something that would stand out in the nighttime. As people make these kind of big, wide turns, that it might help eliminate any potential bumping into those islands. So I just wanted to kind of toss that out there because it seems like kind of an easy fix, when it comes to just adding a coat of paint that it creates more visibility and deters any potential accidents or, you know, cars hitting that curb. So I just wanted to toss that out there for you. And there's probably some challenges because I know that's this is at a cross-over point between State and County. But if you could take a look at that for us, that would be fantastic. MR. TAKABA: Yeah, we can take a look. If there's any particular areas you have concerns with or your constituents have concerns with, they can you can let me know or they can call the Traffic Division, and we can take a look at it and see. Page 7 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. The two that were specifically pointed out, as of the conversation yesterday, was Palani Road and Makalapua. MR. TAKABA: Okay, Makalapua. Oh, okay. Alright. Well, we'll take a look at Palani and see. Striping is one way. We could use the reflective markers. Pavement, too. MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah. MR. TAKABA: We'll just need to look and see what the situation is out there. Color will be dependent on where the island is. If it's on the right side, typically it's going be white. If it's going to be in the center of the road, it's going to be yellow; if it divides traffic going opposite direction. MS. VILLEGAS: Gotcha. I'm sure your guys have protocols and specifics that need to be used for that. So thank you. I appreciate it. I yield. MR. TAKABA: Yeah, no problem. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Thank you, Aaron. Thank you, Kason. Anyone else, here in Hilo? Mr. Richards? Well, with that, Aaron, thanks for being here. I just wanted to follow up. Real quickly, you mentioned if any of our constituents have concerns to call the Traffic office, why don't you go ahead and give us that number. MR. TAKABA: Okay. Yes, no problem. The main number here is 961-8341. CHR. LEE LOY: Great, Aaron. Thanks for being here. And if I could ask you to stick around for the next item? MR. TAKABA: Okay, sure. CHR. LEE LOY: With that, members, we have a motion to close file on Communication 1057, all those in favor? Vote on Comm. 1057: The motion to close file on Comm. 1057 was carried by Filed the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Lee Loy —8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Poindexter— 1. Excused: None. Page 8 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 CHR. LEE LOY: If you could please read in Communicationactually, one moment. With that, the next matter is actually a communication I brought forward. So if it's okay, I'd like to turn the meeting over to my Vice Chair, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Relinquish Chair: At this time, Chair Lee Loy relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo. Please let the record show that I have taken over as Chair for this meeting. Can we have aClerk, can you read in the next item? Comm. 1058: REQUESTS A DISCUSSION WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS REGARDING THE OUTDOOR LIGHTING ORDINANCE From Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated August 24, 2020, seeking an update on requests by Waiakea Center, Kona Coast Shopping Center, and Kona Crossroads Shopping Center to install lighting in their parking lots. Motion to Close File: Mr. Lee Loy moved to close file Comm. 1058. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sue, you want to lead the discussion? MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, thank you, Chair. I'm going to call up Robyn for a second. On the line, we also have Duane Ashimine and Marc Higuchi. This particular matter actually is on both sides of the island. One is at Waiakea Center, right here in Hilo; and two of them are the Kona Coast Shopping Center and the Kona Crossroads Shopping Center. And just a little bit of a backdrop. This particular section of the Code is Chapter 14, and internally we call Chapter 14 the junk drawer of Codes. You would be surprised what is in Chapter 14. Aside from outdoor lighting, we have exceptional trees, nuclear energy. It really is a hodgepodge of different codes that are kind of housed here in Chapter 14. What I did is kind of dived into Section, or Article 9, which deals directly with Outdoor Lighting. And if I could have Robyn kind of give a little bit of the goals and objectives of what the Outdoor Lighting ordinance is intended to do. And then we can actually move into the concern on why this was agendized. And I'm hopeful Ms. Villegas will also jump in because the electrical permits is for two projects in Kona. So with that, Robyn, please can you provide an overview of the lighting ordinance. Page 9 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 (Note: At this time, Acting Building Chief Robyn Matsumoto; Duane Ashimine, representing Energy Industries Corporation; and Marc Higuchi, representing Evolution West Management Services LLC, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. MATSUMOTO: Good morning. My name is Robyn Matsumoto, Acting Building Chief. So basically, the Outdoor Lighting ordinance is to provide guidance and regulate any type of outdoor lighting. So if you have LED (Light Emitting Diode), you have low-sodium, you know, we're trying to look at ways to not create so much, you know, I guess interaction with the telescope, nuisance to your neighbors. So, that's the general idea of the Code. MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Robyn. And then I want to just kind of zoom in why this matter is actually before the Council. Both Duane and Marc were looking at repairing or replacing lights at the shopping centers and had kind of gone back and forth with the department. And it piqued my curiosity because this one was taking a little while. And I just wanted to get everybody on track. In the past, the Council has seen a particular permit, specifically the Sign Ordinance that we had taken five years, and I wanted to head this one off sooner than later. So, Robyn, if you could kind of give an overview on the timelines of the permits that are being requested for the Waiakea Center, Kona Coast, and the Kona Crossroads. MS. MATSUMOTO: Sure. Regarding the Waiakea Centers, there are two different permits, one for the parking lot of Walmart and another one for the lighting behind the Walmart facility. So basically, the application was applied for in October of 2019. The plans went to review through Engineering and then to the Building Division. I did not respond to the comments until January 27, basically informing them that the lights they proposed wasn't traffic compliant. In addition, some of the other lights they proposed did not have the correct testing data. Ultimately, in the end come March, they decided to reduce the scope and to go with the lights that they could get permitted. So for the Walmart parking lot, they were only able to do the lighting within the parking lot. None of the lighting underneath the walkway areas because we didn't have test data for that. And then regarding the lights in the back of the Walmart storage, they weren't able to find a traffic-compliant light. Which basically is saying that Ohuohu and Maka`ala look directly into that area. So you have to have a light that doesn't kind of look in the similar color variation so that people don't get confused when they're making—abiding by the traffic signal. So right now with that, they are looking—Duane asked for details regarding how other properties got permitted because they were trying to use the same one. Basically, you know, we've changed engineers. We had an electrical engineer licensed back in 2018. We currently don't have one, so the responsibility does fall Page 10 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 upon me to verify any testing data. So basically, once I got back to Duane in August, that's when we were able to provide him with a preapproved lighting list. So basically, an engineer certifies that these particular light fixtures meet the Code. They provide the test data for us to, you know, basically verify. And then we present a letter. It was dated in early August. Oh, August 8h, that's our newest list. So basically it makes it easier for contractors to just go directly to that list; contact that supplier to get those fixtures because we've already preapproved it. So that's regarding the Waiakea Center ones. And then regarding Kona Crossroadsoh, and Kona Coast, sorry. Sorry about that. They contacted us in December of 2019. We got back to them in January regarding the products that they were proposing, these also didn't comply with the traffic lighting in that area. Those both have streets that make turns or goes directly into the property. Eventually they provided us with another additional light, back in February of 2020. We finally provided a response in April, that the test data didn't have the information we needed regarding the blue light. And also, that the fixture wasn't fixed, meaning that they could modify it. They could move it and adjust it to not point directly straight down. So that was in April. They applied for an application for both properties in July 14, and they got their permits issued in July 17. They used a licensed electrical engineer to certify the products that they were going to use. MS. LEE LOY: Great. Thanks, Robyn, for that backdrop and timeline. I know on the line we have Duane and Marc. You know, I think I want to start with Duane. Duane, who's been in the industry for a little—for quite a long time actually, and kind of give a little bit of their experiences with some of the work that was, you know, really repaired and replaced. Swapping out the lights one-for-one and having a prequalified list which Robyn spoke of. You know, things change. Technology changes. We're learning energy-efficiency lights. You know, save energy costs, but also have different wavelengths, as far as light goes. So, Duane? MR. ASHIMINE: Yes? MS. LEE LOY: Okay. Thanks, Duane. If you could introduce yourself and just give us a little bit of a backdrop on your experiences and kind of why we're here. You know, managing the expectations and what we hope the outcome is. Really is providing a bright line of expectation and how we can help expedite not only this permit but future permits. MR. ASHIMINE: Hello. Thank you. Thanks for the time. My name is Duane Ashimine. I was one of the founders of Energy Industries. The other founder was Darren Kimura, out of Hilo, Hawaii, and the company was founded Page 11 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 in 1994 out of Hilo. Darren's family is well-known in the electrical contracting field on the Big Island. So we did start, and our background has been, you know, on the Big Island. So we've doing work there since '94, so 26 years now. And we've been doing primarily lighting retrofits and some solar PV(photovoltaic). The lighting retrofits have been our key bread and butter. And, you know, so we've done quite a bit of work on the Big Island over those years as you can imagine. The particular process that we run through and we why we're talking here is normally if it's a one-for-one replacement, to increase efficiency like what we're doing at Waiakea Center, as long it's one-for-one, as long as we're not running in any new conduit or new wire, you know, we've been able to do the projects without getting a permit. But I guess recently things have changed, with this project back of March 2018 or '19. Eighteen, I guess. You know, we had still gone along the assumption that it was a similar situation. We did get in contact with the County, because we have in the past worked with the previous engineer. I think Robyn mentioned that you folks had an electrical engineer on staff back then, who had put out a pretty extensive list of preapproved fixtures that were compliant with Island of Hawai`i's Dark Sky compliant codes. So we had based our proposal based on that, since we've done many, many projects in that regard. And then when this was signed, we then contacted the County to make sure, you know, that we were compliant with the fixtures that we had submitted for a proposal. You know, and then after some time, then we were told we needed to file for a permit, which was something new. Which is fine, you know, we've had to do that in other circumstances, as well. So we did file for the permit, and then went through the process in 2019. And I guess the issue was that the engineer had left, so that position was vacant. So it was harder to find somebody to review the drawings and get back to us. You know, Robyn had explained the timeline that had gone you know, we've gone through back—going back and forth about the fixtures. You know, when we did get the response finally, you know, we were told that certain fixtures were noncompliant, and that was the part was a little hard for us to get an understanding. And we were asking Robyn and Gary, the inspector, Because the lights we were proposing for Waiakea Center, which is, you know, Walmart, and Office Depot, and things are the exact same lights that were used at Safeway, which is directly next to it. And that's where, you know, we were questioning about the issue. So the lights we got approved were for the center section, or the interior parking; and the area that was in question was the exterior lights, where the loading docks are, between Walmart and Safeway. And we understand that there was a traffic-color compliant light; but we went back to Robyn, and the folks were—like 15 lights were failing. We've been told, and we've looked for it ourselves, that Page 12 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 there are no direct replacements, or very few direct replacements, because LEDs have now come on and have been able to take the place. So our questions was, if there is no light that will both meet the traffic-color compliant as well as the dark sky compliance requirements, you know, what do we do in that area? And that's where we were going back and forth, trying to get a better understanding. And that's where I asked for clarification from the County of how do we do this. You know, we did get that preapproved list. It's from one manufacturer. You know, we're not able to some of the lights because they're actually three times more they consume about three times more energy than the existing lights. So, you know, we're going to have to take a look at that scope and look at trimming that down. You know, Robyn did provide us with the list of the test results that were required. But we went back to RAB (RAB Lighting, Inc.), Cree (Gree Lighting), and Phillips (Phillips Lighting), who are the manufacturers that we're dealing with on these fixtures, very high-quality fixtures. And to get somebody that large, you know, international lighting companies to provide a legal document or testimony and be compliant with these specific rules was something they told us they you know, for this one project or even for a situation like that, they were not willing to do. That's why we could not be compliant with the testing requirements that were asked by the County. I did not know that we could have gotten an electrical engineer to sign off. I just heard that today, about the Kona projects. But, I mean, that's been our situation. And it's made it much harder for us to propose and do work on the Big Island because of, I guess, this environment, where there's not a lot of specificity. I mean, if you tell us what we need to work with, we can work with from there and we can go forward. It's just, you know, the issue with the permit first. You know, if it's repair and replacement, one-for-one, small, you know, we normally don't have to go through permit. We were told we do, so we can deal with that. We can now include that in our cost. And then the second part is dealing with the timeline. You know, I understand that the loss of the electrical engineer there contributed to the delays, but we just need to get the responses in a more timely manner, and I guess we kind of hit it on a hot spot where there was some transition. And then dealing with dark-sky versus the traffic-color compliant issue is another issue, that we're having a hard time to understand things that were accepted in the past, recent past, versus what is happening now. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Duane. You know, Robyn, do you want to take a minute to explain? Just for clarity purposes, we keep talking about lights. So there's streetlights, signal Page 13 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 MS. MATSUMOTO: Traffic signal lights. MS. LEE LOY: Traffic signal lights. So some of the conflict, right? MS. MATSUMOTO: Right. And these are interior property parking lights. MS. LEE LOY: Parking lights. MS. MATSUMOTO: They also have like wall-pack lights, which is like against the wall but pointing downwards. So there's all different type of—but that's the general idea, yeah. And so then regarding—what Duane was saying, right, it's correct. You know, we didn't I honestly will tell you, we didn't respond on a timely manner. I'm the one doing the review. I'm a civil engineer, so electrical definitely not my forte. I don't know why the previous preapproved lists were removed. I'm not too sure about the date. You know, I started with the Building Division in July of 2019, so I'm assuming those preapproved lists were taken down prior to that. And then regarding, you know, one-for-one, not needing a permit. You know, I checked with our supervisors and unfortunately, yeah, that was something that was allowed in the past. But when you read the current Outdoor Lighting ordinance, it says like when you replace a light fixture because it's failing, you need to now comply with the current Code. The Walmart one, it went from low-sodium. Low pressure sodium lights to LEDs, so it's a big difference. Not one-for-one in that case, yeah. We will be—well, we offered to an electric engineer. He supposed to start November 2nd, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that everything goes okay with his move, and quarantine, and starting work so we can give him all of that to focus on. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, thank you, Robyn. Again,you know, thisI just wanted to head this one off. It's been a year. And yes there's been a lot of transition, but if you could continue to keep the communication open with Duane and Marc. I know Mr. Takaba is also on, listening to this. Because the conflict that Duane is speaking about is two-part, right? One is the lights, the streetlights, but then also the traffic signal lights in which Aaron kind of MS. MATSUMOTO: Well, it's a little bit different in the sense that—for Duane's one on Waiakea, they just so happen to have a traffic signal in alignment with, you know, that property. So they definitely have to comply with the traffic compliant. I did allow them to use the other model within the property because I didn't feel like it was a conflict, since there wasn't a traffic signal there. Aaron Takaba and the Traffic Division, they managed thein addition to the traffic signals, they manage the streetlights, which is in the County right-of-way, so it doesn't fall Page 14 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 under the review of the Building Division. So if there's comments regarding that, that's something I can't answer for. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. And, Robyn, I was—like I said, I was trying to head this one off. Thank you. Please continue to work with our constituency. Chair, I'm going to yield at this time. But I know, as Duane mentioned, there are three projects here: Waiakea Center, Kona Coast, and Kona MS. MATSUMOTO: Crossroads. CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Kona Crossroads. So I do want to give Ms. Villegas some time to ask any questions since we have Robyn here and the applicant. I yield. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ma'am. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Kona, if you have any questions for anyone? MS. VILLEGAS: Yes,please. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Ms. Villegas, go ahead. MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, you know, the first I have the initial email that I received from Marc Higuchi about the issue, and I received this on July 6. And I was working with my team to get some answers and trying to find You know, I've been working with my team, and I just kind of want to outline the timeline here. We reached out on July 16'h for Robyn, and July 30'', and then again on August 17. So it's definitely been on the radar working on it with my team and have not been able to get any answers. So thank you, Ms. Lee Loy, for bringing this to Council and bringing all the parties together to come up with some answers here. And thank you, Robyn, for outlining the parameters and the necessities for the different lights and where the complications have been and why they have been there. I'm hearing some of the comments being made. I guess I have some concerns about lighting being utilized on the list that is not the most economic or environmentally friendly from an LED standpoint. So perhaps there's just an opportunity as this issue has come to light to take a look at some of the issues that different property managers that may be facing based on what currently is on a list of lights that can be used. But are those really the best ones to be utilized? So I'm hoping that through this discussion there's an opportunity for the management team of these three shopping centers to be able to Page 15 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 identify and source, at a reasonable price point, lights that meet the parameters and the needs and the protocols outlined by DPW (Department of Public Works). And that with the onboarding of an electrical engineer, that some of this could be mitigated and avoided in the future. And also yeah, and grateful for the continuing persistence of these property managers and owners because there are serious safety issues with no lighting. In some capacities I think having—having any lighting at all even if it doesn't meet the exact specific requirements, in tint or tone. Right now we are seeing a rise in crime in different areas due to lack of resources for some members of our community, and so I think it is imperative and it doesI do want to implore our DPW department to work closely with the property managers of these three sites to ensure that they are appropriately and adequately well lit for the health, safety, and wellbeing of our community. So thank you again, Ms. Lee Loy for bringing this forward and allowing us to get the necessary answers. And hopefully we can move forward and execute the solutions. Thank you. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Robyn, do you want to respond? MS. MATSUMOTO: Yes, please. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER:_Thank you. MS. MATSUMOTO: Thank you, Rebecca. I just wanted to explain regarding that preapproved list. So basically, vendors submit to us. We don't go out looking for products that comply. They submit it to us. We verify, and we put it on the list. So we don't verify that it's not energy-efficient, in terms of needing more wattage. It's just basically, if they comply with the two percent blue light, the traffic compliance, some of their photo metrics. You know, it goes on the list. So we don't go into the huge level of detail. And like I said, we get approached, so we don't go out and solicit. Thank you. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Robyn. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Robyn. Is that something that might potentiallyI don't know that makes things better or worse necessarily, not my area of forte; definitely yours. And thank you for your kindness, and humility, and graciousness in, you know, that electrical engineering is not your primary point of focus. Is that something that you are hopeful for as a new electrical engineer comes on staff it might become something they could work on or look at? Page 16 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 MS. MATSUMOTO: Definitely. The licensed electrical engineer, in addition to providing license designs for the County, his responsibilities have to do with reviewing electrical plans and applications. So he'll definitely be—hopefully become the subject matter expert regarding Outdoor Lighting ordinance. You know, I was told from one vendor that if the light met, like say a 40-watt light met the requirements of the blue light and the traffic compliant, that because the light engine within the light is the same for higher wattages, it would still comply. So like you could go up to 300 watts, you know, and get that brighter light, but it would still comply with the County Code. It was confirmed by an outside electrical engineer, so that's my understanding at this time. MS. VILLEGAS: Fantastic. MR. ASHIMINE: Hi. This is Duane. If I can add to that? You know, the problem we have with trying to get these compliance certificates or these certifications from these manufacturers is, you know, we approached them with a single project, right, you know, like Waiakea Center. A lot of times it is not worth their time and effort for one project to have someone go out and create a legal document. And especially with these large firms,you know, like RAB, Sylvania, Phillips, and things like that to do a one-off. So, I'm glad to hear that the County is getting an electrical engineer onboard. And if I can really request that they do try and reach out. Because I think coming from County of Hawaii would provide more weight and more potential projects than an individual contractor trying to get them to move on a legal document of this type. So yeah, if that could be added to the responsibilities or to ask for suggestions, especially from of the local reps in town of the different light manufacturers, that adds a lot more weight than an individual contractor requesting kinds of tests and certifications. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Ms. Villegas, do you have any more questions? MS. VILLEGAS: No more questions on this side. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Kona? All good, okay. Anybody else in Hilo? Okay, Robyn, you know I do appreciate your time. I always find you to be quite relevant and well-informed. And I appreciate you being here today. I have,just from my own experience, been throughI watched other people go through the process of getting lighting done and having a lot of difficulties moving Page 17 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 through that process regarding getting it okayed and approved, and which lighting is okay and what is not. And we do have some very you know, our island is very different. And that we have the astronomy on top of the mountain. That hits a lot of challenges for doing lighting, like you talked about, the dark skies. So, it's always been interesting. But going forward, I think it is difficult and has been difficult, so if we can make that easier in the future for something as simple as a light fixture being replaced. And definitely a preapprove list of items that people can use, that would be wonderful. Just a follow-up question. So if you replaced a lightbulb, that's fine or that's not okay? MS. MATSUMOTO: That's outside of your building, like in a walkway area? ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's outside of the building, yeah. MS. MATSUMOTO: No, you've got to get the light verified. That it complies with the Outdoor Lighting ordinance. Because anything outside of like the they call it the "building envelope." Like—so walls, that's considered outdoor lighting. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And that applies to everybody? MS. MATSUMOTO: Yes. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Residential? MS. MATSUMOTO: So for residential, they have some exceptions, regarding—I think low-pressure sodium, but unfortunately the Code's not up to date to include any additional information regarding LEDs. So right now a resident who buys the LED light has to comply with the two-percent, and full-shielding. I know a lot of people probably don't even realize that, yeah. And we're looking at updating this Code. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I can see you smiling. Even though you're wearing a mask, I can see you smiling. It sounds like a portable a/c (air conditioner) kind of a permit issue there. MS. MATSUMOTO: Yeah, I didn't want to say but yeah, similar to that. Like I was just at Home Depot, and so I was looking at lights just for my indoor, and I was thinking, oh this is just a headache because it's so readily available,just like portable a/c window units. But is it going to comply with the County Code? And without having the data that Duane is talking about—and I understand that it's very expensive to have these testing data done by manufacturers, so I would have Page 18 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 thought that a lot of them had some test done for their basic models. Like I said, we're in the process of updating this Code, after we take care of the other Building Codes. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, it just reminds me similar to what we were talking about with PV(photovoltaic) equipment being repaired and replaced. If you remove a panel and you replace it with the same panel on the same location, you've already been through most of the headache and the permitting and everything else. So at that point, you're doing a basic repair. But if someone has to get a permit and go through the process to replace a light bulb, that isI mean, to me that adds an extensive amount of time to any basic fix. Understood that we have a process there to protect different aspects of our County, but regardless, that is a pain in the butt. MS. MATSUMOTO: Yes. I agree. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You know, I'll be straightforward. Do we have to have that? You know, is that a requirement? MS. MATSUMOTO: Well, like I said we have an exemption for residential. Typically for bigger projects, if you were going to change to a different lightbulb, it's going to have some type of effect. So I would say it all depends. And like I said, I'm not subject-matter expert on this one. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. MS. MATSUMOTO: Yeah. We'll definitely let you talk to our electrical engineer when he starts so we can look at other options to update our Code. The primary thing updating the Outdoor Lighting ordinance, in addition to doing residential for LEDs so it's easier for them, is more regarding the violations and being able to issue Notices of Violations like we do for the current Admin. Code. This one is outdated. It has to go through a criminal process, which we all know that's not going to happen. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, I hope not. That would be a little bit too much. MS. MATSUMOTO: Yeah, right. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Duane, is there anything else that would make this easier for you, you know, that you can see being—sticking to what we have to do, as far as the County, but things that would make your life easier? MR. ASHIMINE: You know, the biggest issue that we have, not just with the County of Hawaii, I mean with all the counties that we deal with, you know, Page 19 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 there's been issues of making here's clarity in code. Because, you know, we can adapt and we can work with the Codes that are implemented or being implemented and the requirements that are in place, if we know what they are. You know, in this case you know, when we signed the original contract, there were, you know, let's say unwritten rules that were in place and have been place for the past 15, 20 years, and then it changed on us, you know, after the contract was signed, and it makes it very hard. And then to not be able to get answers to questions about, well, what is compliant and what is not compliant? You know, they had a preapproved list before. Now, that's gone. Okay, so what can we use in its place? In the meantime, you know, we're trying to explain to our customer, well, why did he sign this contract in March and now it's 18 months later and we still haven't even ordered the fixtures because we now found out that there are new requirements. And, you know, it's hard for us to go back to the customer and go, "Well, there was a change." And it's like, "Well, aren't you guys the experts?" And we're like, "Hey, we've been doing lighting here for 26 years. This has changed." One of the big things to answer your question would be, you know, one, if there can be clear understanding of the requirements from the County; and then two, because of the exterior lighting, and there's very limited you know, the applications are much more limited. If a preapproved list that is much more widespread than the one provided can be done, then when we bid a job we know exactly the rules, we know the requirements, we can price it accordingly, and then we can make sure we're compliant. So I think having a new list created would solve a lot of those problems and would expedite the process. Because from our point of view, if we can get a contract, we know the rules, we price it accordingly, we get the permits, expedite as quickly as possible. We order the fixtures, we get it implemented, and we get it done. I mean, then the customers happy, we're reducing the consumption on the island, we're helping with sustainability goals, we are meeting the (inaudible), we make some money in the process, you know, everybody's happy. Right now we've just got a bunch of quite unhappy people. And the thing that was brought up earlier was the concern is right now it is very hard to find a replacement for the existing lights at Waiakea. So if some of those lights go out, and some of them have, it's going to create dark spots. And, you know, we talked about safety, we talked about security; and then we talked about liability, which is something we brought up, right? I mean, who's going to responsible for that? And it's going to fall on the owner of the property. So to answer your question, if we can understand or create these rules, and we can get these things expedited. Especially because lighting, it's very defined. That would make us you know, that would be what we would hope for. Page 20 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Mahalo, Duane. I appreciate that. I think that's fair. That makes sense. And Robyn was taking notes as you were talking. I'm sure that we'll see some forward movement on that. So it sounds like simple as a list would be the best thing that we could offer for you at this point. Is that kind of a correct assumption? MR. ASHIMINE: Yeah, because there was a pretty extensive list in the past, I guess prior to the last engineer leaving. And it made it very simple. You know, we chose from the list, and there were multiple different manufacturers, so you could get different prices to make sure that the pricing was tight. You know, as I mentioned, right now, the list that was provided because there's only one manufacturer on that list, the price of the fixtures we're looking at are going go up one, application; and then for some of the other wall-pack lights that Robyn had mentioned, they currently consume three times the wattage of the existing lights. So why would you even want to change? ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Yeah, I understand. I'm an electrician, so I understand what you're saying. And especially comes down to a pricing a job and providing an estimate to the owner, you know, and telling them how much it's going to cost. So that's very simple. I mean, that's a very simple thing that we can do on our end. When does the electrical engineer start for us? MS. MATSUMOTO: November 2"d ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: November. MS. MATSUMOTO: But I'd like to speak regarding that preapproved list. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes. MS. MATSUMOTO: I mean, yeah, he is correct. We had an extensive list when the last electrical engineer was here. You know, the list was removed. My understanding is that there were things that administration felt was missing. I mean, we can try and find that test data somewhere in our system, but I have not yet found it. So we'd have to reach out back to the companies that got it certified for us, so it may take some time to get that data. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. That could be maybe a first thing that your new hire would do. MS. MATSUMOTO: I mean, I can try and reach out to those companies. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Beautiful. MS. MATUMOTO: Like I said, yeah, getting the test data may take some time. Page 21 PWMTC-26 September 15,2020 ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So mahalo, Robyn. Appreciate it. And mahalo for bringing this forward, Sue. Oh, Aaron, go ahead. Sorry. MR. CHUNG: Yeah. I mean, I've just been listening very intently to all of this. You know, I look at this situation as being something that it is not supposed to be existing, you know, in government. And, Robyn, you know we respect you a lot and the things that you guys do, but there has to be a simple fix to this. You know, government is here to regulate, and we all know that. We have to take responsibility seriously, but we're also here to find solutions and to help. And I believe there is a very simple solution to all of this, I really do. So just put your heads together and then just come up with something. Getting too complicated, I think. I know that one of the complicating factors that we have that the other islands don't have is the dark-sky situation. We know that. But aside from that, got to have a solution. There has to be one. This isn't just an unacceptable situation, you know. That's all I've got to say. Just work hard on getting this thing done, yeah. Find a path. Thank you. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Appreciate it. Very clear. Okay, any further discussion? Okay, we have a motion to close file on Communication 1058. May I have a vote? Oh, sorry, all in favor of closing file on motion 1058? Vote on Comm. 1058: The motion to close file on Comm. 1058 was carried by Filed the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Lee Loy, Kierkiewicz, Richards, Villegas, Acting Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Poindexter— 1. Excused: None. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. (There were none.) BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. (There were none.) Page 22