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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PSC 2020/08/18 2018-2020Committee on Public Safety 12th Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawai i August 18, 2020 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Public Safety was called to order ORDER: at 9:03 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair (via videoconference from Kona) Ms. Karen Eoff, Vice Chair (via videoconference from Kona) Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member (via videoconference from Kona) Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member Absent & Excused: Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay, we can close testimony at this time and move on to Communications. Mr. Clerk. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 996.1: REQUESTS AN UPDATE FROM THE HAWAII POLICE DEPARTMENT REGARDING THE STATISTICS AND IDENTITIES OF CHILDREN CLASSIFIED AS RUNAWAY OR MISSING CHILDREN IN HAWAII COUNTY From Council Member Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, dated August 5, 2020. Motion to Close File: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to close file on Comm. 996.1. Seconded by Ms. Eoff. CHR. VILLEGAS: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. PSC -12 August 18, 2020 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Sorry, still waking up. We have our two officers here. If you gentlemen could please introduce yourselves so we know who you are for the record? (Note: At this time, Police Lieutenant Sandor Finkey and Detective Gavin Kagimoto came forward to address the members of the Committee.) LT. FINKEY: I'm Sandor Finkey from the Hawaii Police Department, Lieutenant, Area I, Juvenile Aid Section. DET. KAGIMOTO: Gavin Kagimoto, Detective from the Area I Juvenile Aid Section. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, gentlemen. And then is just part of our monthly kind of catch up, just breaking down the details. Thank you for being here. The community has been very, you know, wanting to know what's going on. So this is just communication between us and the public and keeping a nice clear point of information for everybody to look back on. And thank you for doing this for me because it's just very important to the public. So break down what you've got and then we'll go from there. LT. FINKEY: Okay so, we currently have an Area I, Area I is comprised of South Kohala, Hamakua, Hilo, and Puna. We currently have eight runaways at this time. The ones I can name, which have media releases are: Reny Kaholo-Hiapo, male 15; Jordon Grant, male 15; Keith Fukunaga, male 15; Malahiki Ikaika Moala, male 16; and Chloe Imaino, female 16. There are currently four runaways in Area IL That's comprised ofI'm sorry, Area II actually includes South Kohala, not Area L So South Kohala, North Kohala, South Kona and Ka`u. We have, four: Kerri-Ann Duarte, Allanie Duarte, Treeny Shiraki; and there is a fourth female, 16. Currently, from January 1st, 2020 to today, we have 231 runaway reports. Last year from January 1st till August 18th, 2019, we had 261. So right now we have 30 less. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. LT. FINKEY: In response to Council Chair Chung's request regarding the percentage of runaways which are repeats, Detective Kagimoto was able to do a study from January 1st to July 23rd, 2020. This study looked at a 196 total runaways which we had up to that point. Total individual runaways out of that 196 were 101. So you had 101 juveniles comprising that total amount of runaways. Page 2 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 We had 38 repeat runaways which accounted for 133 cases. That's 67 percent of your total runaway cases. So for this year, it's just the two-thirds of our runaways are repeat. We currently have one open, missing child case, which is Benny Rapoza who went missing in December of 2019. And that is it for statistics. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So total missing runaway kids right now? LT. FINKEY: Island -wide, I have a total number of 12. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So 12 runaways. I think, Reny, is he the oldest? Not the oldest child but the longest missing, the longest runaway right now? LT. FINKEY: I'm not sure. DET. KAGIMOTO: The longest one would be—yeah, Reny would be the longest case. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I mean, besides Benny Rapoza, yeah? DET. KAGIMOTO: Correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: How long has Reny Kaholo-Hiapo been missing? DET. KAGIMOTO: We don't have the date on that, but he's second on the list. So it goes in the chronological order of the time that they were reported runaway. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I think he's been missing or runaway since, I mean for at least three or four months now, yeah? DET. KAGIMOTO: Correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so you're saying 33 individuals comprised of 101 runaways. LT. FINKEY: It's actually 38. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thirty-eight (38). Page 3 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 LT. FINKEY: And they account for 133 of those cases. So these are accounted for—at the time the study was done, it was 67 percent of those. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So these kids are running away again and again, and again. Okay. LT. FINKEY: And there are several on this list, who are—since we've last met, they were picked up then they've run again. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So something's going on with those guys. LT. FINKEY: Yeah, with several of them, they have mentioned to officers they don't want to follow the rules. Or one was, well it's too strict at home. Others are leaving because they have a boyfriend or girlfriend. And others are leaving from interim homes. So they don't want to be at the interim home. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Not always, but sometimes that shows that something's going on at home. Do we do any kind of follow-up with, you know, kids who have run away three, four, five times? Do we follow-up at all with them and the families and try to open the door to see what's going on with them? LT. FINKEY: Well, the cases go to Family Court once they're closed, and Family Court usually does the assessments. And they have advocates, I believe, who are available through CWS (Child Welfare Service), who works with the interim homes. And so they are aware of the kids who are repeats, and they try to work with them. You'd have to ask them exactly what they make available to them, but I know that our cases go from us to Family Court. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you very much. Appreciate the information. And then, do you have a copy of the report for me? LT. FINKEY: Yeah, I'll leave this with you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Sir. Okay, I yield for now, and thank you for your time this morning. CHR. VILLEGAS: Any other questions from the other Council Members? MR. CHUNG: Yeah, I have a comment. CHR. VILLEGAS: Yes, Chair Chung. Page 4 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 MR. CHUNG: Thank you, you guys, for coming and providing this information. You know, the last time you guys were here, you guys mentioned the name of a girl, and I'm not going to mention that, for the sake of—well, it was already said, stated in public. But, I understand that she was recovered, I'm going to use that word, out in `Ainaloa. I went over to the mother's home to speak to the mother. - understand this girl is still in Police protective custody pending some kind of investigation with regardI think this was a situation involving social media predation, I believe. You guys kind of look perplexed. You guys know what I'm talking about? LT. FINKEY: I don't know what you're really talking about. MR. CHUNG: Okay, I don't want to mention the name, but it's out in `Ainaloa. Adoptive parent; child left, got abused while she was on the street or out somewhere. And it is kind of a harrowing story. You know, I think runaways will happen all the time. I don't think we will stop runaways, and I don't even know what we're trying to accomplish here. You know, and if someone can explain to me what we're trying to accomplish by this. You know, stop maybe sex trafficking. Okay, that's one component. Stop runaways altogether. That's going to be very difficult. Yeah, I think impossible. Because you gave the rates of repeat offenders, right? What do you guys look for in terms of this whole runaway situation? I mean are we trying to—what are we trying to do here? LT. FINKEY: We're trying to get kids back to safe supervision. MR. CHUNG: Right. Okay, I mean actually I should be asking this of Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Because, you know, because you guys have been here what two, three, or maybe even four times already. And, you know, this is an important matter to a lot of people. And especially to that lady that I talked to in `Ainaloa. But what are we trying to achieve here? I mean bring it to the public's attention or are we trying to help, you know, get the public's assistance in apprehending or getting these kids back into the fold, or are we trying to protect against sex trafficking, kidnapping? We have to get some kind of focus to this. I mean if we're going to continue bringing them here. And maybe we could, you know, I thank you for getting more information. You know, it further refines the focus. But I want to know what we're trying to achieve here. I mean, I'm sure it's a good thing, but I just want to know. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: If I could? Page 5 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 CHR. VILLEGAS: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. So, I mean, three or four months ago, the discussion was started. We had a large number of missing cases and missing children cases. And some of those were runaways, some were missing. And there is some question about the definition and then some question about the numbers. You know, what really came out was, in my efforts to figure out who was and who wasn't missing, I found that the information was incredibly hard to comb through and then find; and then present. Because even the information that I went and vetted myself through DHS (Department of Human Services) and the HCPD (Hawai`i County Police Department) site, I was off. And I came to realize that later. You know, I had parents reaching out to me, saying, "No, this child has been found already." And what we realized was the reporting methods and some of the different techniques that are used by HCPD to show and to document who's found; who's runaway; who's missing, needed some work I think would be fair. And within the last three months, I've seen DHS actually update their site; cleaned it up. Benny Rapoza is no longer missing from Oahu. He's now missing from the Big Island, which is where he's been missing from. HCPD has changed the way they've been documenting these runaways, these missing children. And I know, some people have their concerns about that. But I think what we've seen is small steps toward getting more information to the public. And the point of this right here is for the public to be given the information on who's missing from a valid source, so no one is combing through documents online and going through press releases and trying to figure out who is or who isn't. And even then I think some of the kids on the list, I mean I've seen online that they've actually been found, but we still need to verify. And so there's this constant kind of back and forth on how we document the information; how we get it back to the public, and how—and just giving really the public the ability to come to one source for them to understand who's missing, runaway; what are numbers are, without having to comb through all the documents online. And then, you know, another portion of what's happening today is, about a month ago I actually emailed the Chief. And I said, Chief can I please have a list compiled and sent to my office so I can put the information out and with the help of Lieutenant Finkey. I was told that couldn't be done because we lack manpower to be able to give that report directly to me. So I had to switch gears Page 6 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 and asked for these two fine gentlemen to come and present the information to the Council so that we could be given the information as requested. And then furthermore, I got a follow-up email from a woman in the community who had requested the same information and was actually given it. And so in many different ways, I'm just getting the information from the Police Department to the public in a method that works via Council action. MR. CHUNG: Okay, so it was just to refine the reporting methods so that it's more easily attainable by the public, and I guess, digestible by them as well? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Long story short, yes. MR. CHUNG: Okay, good. I mean I was just kind of wondering. And no, the reason why I was kind of perplexed is, as you guyslet's, you know, go back in time. You know, this thing came up when there was a whole social medial storm about kids being kidnapped and things being tied around a car antenna. You know, and all of these things. And I wasn't too sure if this was related to that because it was suggested by some of the speakers. And then they brought up sex trafficking, which is a real important thing incidentally. It is real and I did tell you guys as soon as I can go to Oahu, you know, I will be meeting a confirmed victim of sex trafficking. Just can't get to Honolulu right now. But, so I'm glad you explained that because I wasn't too clear, you know, because it really kind of, as all of you guys know, this thing started spreading all over the place, right? So, yeah, if it's just reporting, you know, I really appreciate you guys coming here. Thank you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And if I could one more time—and I think what I've come down to after discussing what's happening with Ho`61a Na Pua is that what we're talking about is child exploitation. That's really what it comes down to. And I'm just going to say this again, because this number blew me away, is that the sex trafficking report that was done and finalized in 2020 earlier this year, 95 percent of runaways were victims of some form of exploitation. So when we look at, and especially when you have multiple runaways, you know, if you're seeing multiple runaways for one individual, then that individual probably is at risk more than anybody else. So we discussed, I mean, close to 120 -something runaways, you know, not being repeats, is that right? Is that number correct? LT. FINKEY: It was 63 not being repeats. So 63 new ones. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sixty-three, and that's including the repeat offenders? Page 7 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 LT. FINKEY: No, the repeat offenders were 38 of those. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So 38 plus LT. FINKEY: Sixty-three, which is a total of 101. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so 101. So if 95 percent of those are at risk of being exploited then we're talking about 95 kids. And so, when you look at the total number of 231, it may be less than last year. But I think what's important to remember is that 95 percent of those children are at risk of being exploited. And exploited really is key word. In traffic, it kind of gets a little vague and you see people being put in containers or how else you want to view trafficking. But, I mean, really we're talking about exploitation and this is our kids and this is our community. And this is one way that we can all make a difference, which is just basically communicating what's going on; who it is, and then being effective and responsible leaders. So yeah. So, I don't know if that helps any. MR. CHUNG: Well, it's further refining it. And, you know, I will say this, I was told a long time ago there's three kinds of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics, right? So I don't where this 95 percent at -risk thing came from, because you know, you touched upon it. It really depends on how you define being at risk, but I would say, 100 percent would be at risk, when they're out there, right, on their own. Not 95. But if they're suggesting that 95 percent were abused, then I've got to dispute that statistic. That's off, no question, yeah. LT. FINKEY: It'sabsolutely. Every single one of them is vulnerable. MR. CHUNG: They are right? Everyone, not 95 percent, 100 percent. LT. FINKEY: Right, but I don't think it's anywhere close to 95 or 100 percent actually abused. MR. CHUNG: The actual abused, no way, not even close. LT. FINKEY: But they're all vulnerable to it, and it's a possibility. Which is why, the sooner we can get them back home or back into proper supervision, the better. MR. CHUNG: Right. Very good, very good. But thank you, you guys for coming again, really appreciate it. Page 8 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm just going to add, so the 95 percent, 22 individuals in our state, they were all victims of sex trafficking in the report put out by ASU (Arizona State University). Of those 22 individuals, 95 percent of them began as a runaway. And I agree with you, statistics can be misleading. You know, we saw that many times in the past. But in this case, there's a report of 22 individuals who were trafficked here; victims of trafficking in our state. And of those 22, 95 percent of them began as a runaway. Their words. So that's why this runaway issue is important, and that's why we need to understand that. And that's why I'm tracking this number, because if 95 percent of these missing kids on our island are at risk of being exploited or are being exploited, that's a bigger number than I think we're willing to accept. So there is a reason; there is a rhyme. Reason to the rhyme or rhyme to the reason. MR. CHUNG: So in other words, that 95 percent of the sex traffic population, not the runaway population. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So, yeah, you've got to put them together. So, you get 22 individuals who were sex trafficked in our state; 95 percent of them began as a runaway. MR. CHUNG: Okay, that's a little bit different, you know, from 95 percent of runaways are at risk of being either abused or that's a little bit different, yeah? But, you're looking at a population of sex trafficked people. You know why, and the reason why I bring this up and belaboring the point is, it's important, as Matt said to bring this up. It's important to refine the reporting methods to get out to the public. But we don't want the public to get misinformation regarding what is going out. We want them to have an accurate picture of what's going on out there, right? I mean I live in a scary world that's of my own making, and my family will tell you that. But I don't think, you know, we don't want to create a scarier picture than there is. So, let's make it very clear here. We're talking about a population of confirmed sex traffic victims; 95 percent of which came from a runaway situation. Not saying that 95 percent of the runaway population is at risk of being sex trafficked or abused. Because we agreed that it's 100 percent, but not 100 percent or even 95 or even 60 percent will actually be victimized of the runaway population. Big difference between the sex traffic confirmed population and the overall runaway population. Let's get accurate information out there to the public, alright? Okay, that's all. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Thank you Chair, I yield for today. Page 9 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, gentlemen. Any more questions or comments from anyone else on the Council? And I just ask that you raise your hand or speak up, because I can't see or tell. Is that a "no"? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No further questions in Hilo right now, Chair. Thank you. CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay, thank you. And just to do something a little different here, I'd like to see if Mayor Kim would like to come up and make a couple comments before our next item. I was told there's a potential for a withdrawal of the next item on the agenda. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We need to close file and vote on the communication. CHR. VILLEGAS: My apologies. All those in favor of closing file on Communication 996.1 please say "aye." Vote on Comm. 996.1: The motion to close file on Comm. 996.1 was carried by Filed the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Richards, and Chair Villegas — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Poindexter —1. Excused: None. CHR. VILLEGAS: Now moving on, Mayor Kim. (Note: At this time, Mayor Harry Kim came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. VILLEGAS: Mayor Kim, please go ahead. MAYOR KIM: Thank you very much. If you don't mind, members of the Council, may I take off the mask? CHR. VILLEGAS: No worries. MAYOR KIM: First of all I thank you very much for this opportunity, Madam Chair. I will say that the purpose of coming here is being in government, for the first time I find myself really almost frustrated, offended, in what I spent my life for. I think I can say things openly now because the election is over. Page 10 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 And prior to this, really being very careful, even because of being warned that you cannot read messages anymore because of concerns that it's not fair to the other candidates, so I stopped immediately. Not to take away the credibility of the Civil Defense mission. And even where I wave my flag, which I thought was all—and still the attorney said but it's okay. But I'm going to take away any kind of perception of politics and my job as Mayor or Civil Defense, by law. Then I'm told that even members of the Council will look at ways to get me away from being involved in Civil Defense because of perception of unfairness in using that agency. All of that did not bother me, Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Mayor, sorry to interrupt you, I just got a text from a member of the public who said they cannot hear you. So maybe if you can pull that mic a little closer to you. MAYOR KIM: You bet, I'm sorry. I'm here to testify in regards to the nomination of Scott Collins. I received a copy of the letter from the Fire Chief in regards to why this nomination is not a good one. I want to insure the public of Hawaii County, through this Council and this opportunity, to say of a lifetime of ensuring that politics and my job of Civil Defense by law and the Mayor was not ever crossed or approached. And one of them is appointment of people on boards and commissions. And this letter by the Fire Chief insulted, I think, a lot of what I stood for and worked for. MR. CHUNG: Mayor, see this is the problem, when we don't have the public doesn't know what letter you're talking about. You want to read the letter? If that's okay. MAYOR KIM: Sure. This letter is from Chief to the Chair. CHR. VILLEGAS: Excuse me, Mayor Kim, my apologies. Mr. Clerk, do we need to read this next topic in before we proceed? MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, I had really suggested that maybe not reading it in since the Mayor was going to withdraw this appointment, but it seems like we're going a little further than that. So unfortunately, we will have to read it in; make a motion, and give the Council an opportunity to discuss the appointment. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Page 11 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 Comm. 1026: APPOINTMENT OF SCOTT COLLINS TO THE FIRE COMMISSION From Mayor Harry Kim, dated July 31, 2020, submitting for the Council's review and confirmation. Requires Council Confirmation by: September 13, 2020 (Section 13-4(1), Hawaii County Charter) Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend confirmation of the appointment of Mr. Scott Collins to the Fire Commission. Seconded by Mr. Richards. CHR. VILLEGAS: Do we have any comments from the Council? Or would it be better to go back to—we'll go back to Mayor Kim. Sorry for interrupting you there, Mayor Kim. We just had to make sure we were in alignment here. MAYOR KIM: Do I need to read the whole thing? MR. CHUNG: Well, so that the public knows what's happening here, I think it might be best, or if you want someone else to read it? (Note: At this time, Mayor Kim proceeded to read a letter from Fire Chief Darren Rosario, dated August 14, 2020. Please see Comm. 1026. 1.) MAYOR KIM: I want to tell you why this letter offends the heck out of me. Of all the people here, Mr. Chung, I think you know me best because of your grandma. They were so close, they're buried next to each other, as young women planning that. And three of them are buried next to each other at the grave. Principles is what drove me my whole life. And I will swear to this Council, any commission, and the people of this island that I work for all these years, that I never violated any of the policies in appointments, in job performance, or anything. Believe it or not, my son doesn't even know about this letter. I didn't even talk to him about it; neither does my wife. We do not talk politics at home. I don't know how many of the people that hear about this letter knows that Garret (Kim) was a Special Ops. Battalion Chief. If any of you check it out, it was the administration of the Fire Department that asked him to apply. I don't know how many of you know that Garret, after a time there, has withdrawn and chose to go to his old job as Captain of Search and Rescue; of which I'm a proud father, as he received the highest award in regards to Fireman of the Year; of a very difficult rescue. He doesn't even know this letter. I don't talk to him. When I say there are no politics at home, there is none. Page 12 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 And on this commission appointment, I'm told of this letter yesterday. The only one—Rose (Bautista) that sits behind me does all of the review. I don't get involved one solitary bit. She tells me who is finally recommended, and that's how when I first heard of name. On this conflict of interest, there is no conflict of interest. Corporation Counsel has checked. Those are the procedures we do. And so when his name was given to me I approved it. I want to emphasize this about Rose, and I asked her permission to say this before you this morning. Boy, do I hate politics. Some time ago, Rose submitted to me her resignation. With a full admittance and knowledge by me of her husband's direct communication, relationship, and support of one of the candidates, I told her it does not matter. Perception? The heck with perception. I need her and I told her so. I took her resignation and threw it away. I said, "Rejected, I need you to help me in couple of areas." And especially in dealing with the Marshallese and Micronesians, the compact of free association because of the Coronavirus clusters. Because of her, we have the greatest relationship of tracing with these special people. We even had a meeting with the Counsel General of these nations, of the Marshallese and Micronesians. We even worked with them this past Saturday. I think with the envy of the State of Hawaii, that relationship, and I needed Rose to continue that. But especially because the first thing about the Coronavirus was how susceptible their seniors were. So in February, we made a goal that we will protect our seniors. And I needed her to make direct contact with every one of them with the Fire Department to work with them to make sure they are safe. And I told her, more so I need her in regards to the Micronesians and the Marshallese because of close contact there. I'm trying to tell you that everything I breathe is to keep my place to you and the people of this island of a politics they can trust. And how dare, a letter is written, who my son doesn't even know I'm here. To even insinuate these things ticks me off. There is nothing I can take back in regards to working with boards and commission appointments that I think should be taken back because of possible conflict or perception of conflict or whatever—nothing. Eleven -and -a -half years of serving you. The anger is because of a lifetime of keeping my family out of it. And hopefully, being very successful in it. And to have this kind of letter taint perception is offensive. I have never violated my commitment to you as a Council and the people of this island, never. I'm in my last few weeks of being here and I will do that job. I've worked for you every single day, seven days a week early in the morning, so I could do that job; the coronavirus and this job as Mayor. And that don't bother me one bit, not one day off since February. But this bothers me. Page 13 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 I will withdraw this, and I'm here only because I was going to withdraw it yesterday, when I'm told, do that and they're going to have a perception, you're guilty. And that's why I'm here, find yourself caught between a rock and a hard place. I called Mr. Randy Perreira to tell him of such. And there was a time when he didn't endorse me either. And I said, "I will withdraw this because I do not want the perception of your young man to be caught in this because it's also unfair to him." So it will be withdrawn. Thank you very much. MR. CHUNG: Madam Chairman. CHR. VILLEGAS: Yes, Chair Chung. MR. CHUNG: Before the Mayor withdraws his nomination, I'm wondering if I could ask the Corporation Counsel to just come up here. I mean, you know, it's going to be done already. But, you know, I hate to leave dangling participles around. Good morning, Joe. (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Joseph Kamelamela came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KAMELAMELA: With the participation of Council, can I MR. CHUNG: Sure. MR. KAMELAMELA: I always find it hard to talk with the mask on, but it's necessary to have the mask. MR. CHUNG: Do you have any comment on the items brought up by Chief Rosario in terms of conflicts of interest? From a legal standpoint, do you have any opinions there? Are there any bases to what he's saying? MR. KAMELAMELA: Okay, for the record, my name is Joseph Kamelamela, Corporation Counsel. So I did hear the letter that was read. And so there's two things that I wanted to talk about. Alright, so actually this is for the public to know, because and it talks about how government works. And so, there's two areas that I wanted to address, because I think it's incorrect on the statements that were made. You know, one has to do with the perception, that somehow Mr. Collins would be the supervisor in some fashion, you know, of the Fire Department. And then the second one is the nature of the conflict as it relates to many boards and commissions. I'll take the first point. The way in which discipline is handled is Page 14 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 actually through the statutes and the collective bargaining agreement. There's a grievance process. So to even talk about somebody like Mr. Collins being involved in the grievance process, you know, is wrong. I mean that's not how government operates. Any member of the Fire Commission, you know, doesn't determine the outcome of a grievance being done by one of the HGEA (Hawai`i Government Employees Association) members. And so, that perception is wrong. The second thing to recognize in any kind of board and commissions is that with the Fire Commission, we have nine members. And it takes a majority of the members to make a decision, just like the County Council. Many times, County Council members have conflicts in a certain situation, so they recuse themselves making decisions when there is an actual conflict. Now in the situation with Chief Rosario, you know, he's assuming something that we have no idea—he talks about something that may not happen. And if it does happen, if a member of the Mayor's family, you know, does try to become a Fire Chief, which I don't know. First of all, nobody is going to know the applicants. It's confidential. The only time that the public's going to really know who surfaces, is when we start having the finals list. And it's at that time, it's up to the members whether they're going to decide whether to conflict themselves out. And so we're prejudging something that we don't know is going to happen, and we're prejudging a young intelligent potential applicant, as to whether he would be prudent enough to recuse himself. But like I said, it takes nine members to make a decision, only five to hire. MR. CHUNG: There were three things, right brought up by the Chief? What were they? Direct conflict on employee grievances, specifically from the HGEA members; something about the Mayor being endorsed by HGEA, and the third, yeah, his son. MR. KAMELAMELA: Okay, so I did address two of the—well you know, like at this point, I mean what's the relevance of being endorsed in this situation. I mean I failed to say that only because we have it; it's out in the open. When Mr. Collins had really wanted to take the job, he made it known to everybody where he works. You know, and to me being endorsed doesn't mean that there's a special deal going on here. Page 15 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 MR. CHUNG: Okay, from what I understand—and you know, the reason why I'm bringing this up. First of all, we want to speak specifically about this situation, but this has a broader application going forward. MR. KAMELAMELA: Correct. MR. CHUNG: To other boards and commission, right, and, applicants thereto. So what I'm hearing you, as far as this specific application or appointment goes, would you say there is no inherent conflict of interest? MR. KAMELAMELA: None at all. MR. CHUNG: Okay, but if a conflict did arise somehow, there would be an avenue for this person to recuse himself in this situation; or his or herself in another situation? MR. KAMELAMELA: Correct. MR. CHUNG: Okay, so there is that—always addressing. MR. KAMELAMELA: There's always that available. MR. CHUNG: Would you say in this context is there a distinct possibility that a conflict will arise or is it a remote possibility? MR. KAMELAMELA: Very remote. MR. CHUNG: Okay, alright. And with regard to the endorsement, should that preclude anyone? And the reason why I bring that up is, it doesn't have to only relate to a union endorsement. It could be anything. If any person receives monies, endorsements, in-kind contributions from any person, would that disqualify a person now from voting on issues or taking action on issues that relate to our business here? MR. KAMELAMELA: You know, a lot of what we do, whether this Council or boards and commissions, everything is case-by-case. MR. CHUNG: Right, okay. MR. KAMELAMELA: You know, and I know of other union members who served on boards, and they were excellent. So just to even mention endorsement, you know, it's not enough. You have to take the full person. Who is the person, you know? And the only person that I hear that had an objection, maybe there's more, but who have publically come up, is Chief Rosario. You know, and to me that's not enough. Page 16 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 MR. CHUNG: Okay, alright. Well, I just wanted clarification on the specific situation and the broader situation. Thank you very much, Joe. MS. LEE LOY: Chair. CHR. VILLEGAS: Yes, Ms. Lee Loy. Just one question. I just have a question for the Clerk. So we're discussing something that's already been asked to be withdrawn. Can you clarify then where we are at in the process? MR. BROWN: Madam Chair, the motion is still live on the floor. So discussion can continue. There's no withdrawal yet. CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay, thank you. Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Because I just want to clarify with Joe. So the assertion that Fire Chief Rosario made that Mr. Collins would hear grievances is an inaccurate assertion? MR. KAMELAMELA: Correct. MS. LEE LOY: I just want to provide that bright line. And then Mr. Rosario speaks of a family member. But to my knowledge and from you explained, that vetting process has not occurred, correct? MR. KAMELAMELA: Correct. MS. LEE LOY: And so, to make that assertion is another inaccurate assertion, that a family member, as of right now, is a qualified candidate? MR. KAMELAMELA: Correct. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. And I'm going to ask this because I know the answer. How many grievances has the Fire Chief or the Fire Commission heard from an HGEA member before the Fire Commission Board in the last four or five years? MR. KAMELAMELA: I could take it farther than that, but in the last four or five years, none. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Chair, I yield. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else have comments or questions? Do we have anyone else in Hilo? Okay, let's go here to Kona. Ms. David. Page 17 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair. And Mr. Kamelamela, thank you for that explanation. The questions that you answered had a lot to do with my concerns after reading the letter from Mr. Rosario; and the clarification of that. I do have a comment. My personal feeling in this is, I'm very disappointed that Fire Chief could not be here today to actually either answer our questions regarding his letter, which I think is very serious; the allegations that are being made. And so, I'm very disappointed that there is no opportunity for us to even question the Fire Chief at this point in time. But the answers and the legal positions and advice from Corp. Counsel does satisfy, to some degree, my concerns. But what I really would desire right now is, this appointment comes from District 1, which is Ms. Poindexter's district. So, I would like to, since this is not being withdrawn at this point in time procedurally, I would like to suggest that maybe we hold this off, if there's some time to do this, until we can hear from the district, Council District 1 Council Member, Ms. Poindexter. That's my comment right now. And maybe someone else has any other suggestions with this. You know, most of the concerns were addressed by Corp. Counsel, but I still feel that equal opportunity should be given to the Council Member from that district, because that's been our usual mode of operations in this sort of thing. So with that, I'm going to yield for anybody else's comments. Thank you, Chair, mahalo. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Ms. David. MR. CHUNG: Madam Chair? MS. VILLEGAS: Yes, Chair Chung. MR. CHUNG: You know, I don't know what's going to happen here, because I know Mayor Kim indicated that he was going to withdraw it. And, you know, just out of courtesy to the members of this board, you know, he allowed us to say some comments. And I'm trying to keep my commentaries to a minimum. I just wanted, you know, more information from Corp. Counsel just to make sure that, you know, we know what we're dealing with. And I'm going to continue refraining from making comments regarding Chief Rosario's letter and the motivations behind it. But I will say this, Mayor, as a parting word of advice or whatever it is from a younger guy to an older guy. You know, you said you don't get involved in politics? But look what happens when you lose on election, you get somebody from your own administration come in and, you know, and criticizing your pick. That's how it goes. I mean, that's politics. It's an ugly thing, politics. Page 18 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 And I'm not saying that what Chief Rosario is saying is accurate. But, you know, that's the ugly part of politics. It's all power. People don't want to say stuff because they're afraid, you know, of what might happen. And not saying that you would do it. But I will say this, I disagree with everything that Chief Rosario said. I think it's—and there's something else involved, but you know, whatever. Okay, thank you. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Chair Chung. MAYOR KIM: May I comment? CHR. VILLEGAS: Yes, Mayor Kim. MAYOR KIM: Thank you very much. The goal was of all boards and commissions, like every part of government, really I know it was just words of politics and people. But for me, it was of the sincerity of why I'm in government. To make a government that people trust, especially when you have what's happening now with coronavirus, of distrust from top to bottom. Top meaning the Federal level all the way down. And one of the keys is, make sure that you keep politics out of certain kinds of issues especially of who works for you and why they work for you. This is a small town and we all know there's something behind this letter. What it is, is up for you to conclude. I want to present why this man was appointed. In a very small way, it was to try to correct some of the wrongs in a very small way of what the indigenous people, the Hawaiians from 1893. And you read about Mr. Collins who graduated from the Kamehameha Schools, Kapalama, earn a Bachelor's degree in Sociology; Master's degree in Human Resource Management; and a Juris Doctorate law degree from U.H. (University of Hawaii) Manoa. He went to Kamehameha School, another very small opportunity to bring people up in a forefront of achievement in a very small way, because we got a thousand miles more to go. And if you had the time and took the time to read what I wrote of going forward, this is connected to that also. I promise you when you look at these qualifications, and say boy, I'm good for him. Yesterday, we borrowed your Council Room here to review how and where and what we'll do in regards to the virus to see because Oahu, I knew was going to the Governor to see what more they could strengthen, even considering a total lockdown. Page 19 PSC -12 August 18, 2020 I think some of you know, although I don't broadcast the message, I write the messages in the morning. And this morning it was, help me try to protect a lifestyle in Hawaii of enjoying outside without taking away the rules of gathering; of the numbers, because our numbers were real good. We investigate every single victim of the virus to see how they got it. And I see Mr. Collin's qualifications, and there is no doubt that he would good for us and his people. I told Mr. Perreira yesterday when he called what's going on, that I was going to withdraw him because I did not want to expose him to this kind of thing when he has nothing to do with any of those things. And he agreed. He doesn't want this young man, who he thought should be involved in the community affairs of Hawaii County to be tarnished like that. That somehow his appointment is political. Somehow his appointment is because of HGEA endorsement of me as a candidate. I think everybody who works with Garret and the coronavirusI knew it a long time ago. He's a smartest guy I know on County government payroll outside of doctors in regards to the virus. He's a guy who came to me angry with his father because I had not imposed a mandatory face mask yet. He said, "What are you waiting for?" He is a guy that asked to join that team, not by me, to go out and work with the community to make us safe. He has a Bachelor's degree in chemistry. He was going to go to Med School and withdrew. He has nothing to do with my politics. I'm lucky to have him as a son, but we're lucky to have him as an employee. And how dare we make all of this political. Of Collins, my boy, the department, the commission political? That's why I withdrew it. A very qualified person that I did not want to be drawn into politics. And do you know, as I told you, my son doesn't know anything about this. He's going to hear about it now, and I guarantee you he's going to be mad at me. Was he going to apply for Fire Chief? I don't know. Do I want him to? I don't even have an opinion. He withdrew from Battalion Chief to go back to Captain. They asked him to become a Battalion Chief. How dare we make this political. Then I heard that the majority of the people was not going to confirm this guy. And I was not going to expose him to sit here to be cross-examined like he was going to be paid a million dollars a year to volunteer his time. That's why I withdrew it. Thank you, Mr. Chung. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Mayor Kim. Anyone else have anything they'd like to say? Page 20 PSC-12 August 18,2020 Withdraw Motion: MS. LEE LOY: Chair, it appears that we've reached a point in this conversation where the Mayor has provided a bright line that this nomination is going to be withdrawn. And so, without belaboring this anymore, I'd like to make a motion to withdraw? So I would like to withdraw my motion to send this matter to this Council, and allow the administration to provide the withdrawal of this communication. CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay, Mr. Clerk, can you advise me on how we proceed from here on that? MR. BROWN: Being that the Mayor withdrew his nomination, and Council Member Lee Loy withdrew her motion, Communication 1026 has been withdrawn, we can adjourn the meeting when you are ready. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. (There were none.) BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. (There were none.) CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you. Motion to adjourn? ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 10:11 a.m., Ms. David moved to adjourn MENT: the meeting. Seconded by Ms. Eoff and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Richards, and Chair Villegas— 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Poindexter— 1. Excused: None. CHR. VILLEGAS: This meeting is now adjourned. Approved: October 1, 2020 s. Rebecca Viii gas, Chair (Date) Public Safety Committee RV/dt Page 21