HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN COUNCIL 2020-07-22 2018-2020 Hawaii County Council
471h Session
West Hawaii Civic Center
74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A
Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
July 22, 2020
INVOCATION: Rabbi Levi Gerlitzky of Chabad Jewish Center gave the morning's invocation.
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Hawaii County Council was called to order at
ORDER: 9:05 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Karen Eoff,
Acting Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Chair(via videoconference from Hilo)
Ms. Karen Eoff, Vice Chair
Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member (via videoconference from Hilo)
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member(via videoconference from Hilo)
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member (via videoconference from Hilo)
Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member
Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member(via videoconference from Hilo)
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member
PLEDGE OF Acting Chair Eoff directed the Council to the next order of business, Pledge of
ALLEGIANCE: Allegiance.
(At this time, Ms. David led the Council in the Pledge of
Allegiance.)
PETITIONS, Acting Chair Eoff directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
MEMORIALS, Petitions, Memorials, Certificates of Merit, and Expressions of Condolence.
CERTIFICATES
OF MERIT, AND (Note: At this time, Ms. Kierkiewicz presented Certificates of Merit to the
EXPRESSIONS OF founding members of Bodacious Women of Pahoa in recognition of their work to
CONDOLENCE: support and uplift Hawaii Island.)
STATEMENTS Acting Chair Eoff directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by
the Acting Chair:
Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Grace Reinhard: Bill 179 (Comm. 989), comment.
(see Comm. 989.112)
Jason Fujimoto: Bill 179 (Comm. 989), in support.
(representing HPM Building
Supply)
Toby S. Hazel: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986); and
Res. 691-20 (Comm. 1010), in support.
Darryl Oliveira: Bill 179 (Comm. 989), in support.
(representing HPM Building (see Comm. 989.103)
Supply and Hawaii Island
Housing Coalition)
Charles Cravalho: Comm. 993, in opposition; and
Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
Shirley David: Bill 179 (Comm. 989), in support.
(representing Community (see Comm. 989.59)
Alliance Partners)
Sonny Kelly: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
Celine Kitaoka: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
Frederic "Ric" Wirick: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
John Alderton: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in opposition.
Dean Au: Bill 179 (Comm. 989), comment.
(representing Hawaii
Regional Council of Carpenters)
Christopher Delaunay: Bill 179 (Comm. 989), comment.
(representing Pacific
Resource Partnership)
Dennis Walsh: Bill 179 (Comm. 989), in opposition.
(see Comm. 989.125)
Robert Ward: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.801)
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Leslie Cole Brooks: Bill 178 (Comm. 988), in support.
(see Comm. 988.21)
Benjamin Marantz: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.600)
Michele Prevost: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.883)
Jack M. Ebner: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.418)
Jaerick Medeiros-Garcia: Comm. 993, in opposition; and
Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986); in support.
(see Comms. 993.2 and 986.616)
Max Newberg: Bill 179 (Comm. 989), comment.
(representing Hawaii (see Comm. 989.98)
Regional Council of Carpenters)
Jennifer Shepherd: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.721)
Eugene Elmer: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.426)
Marla Landt: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(representing Midwives
Alliance of Hawaii)
Sherilyn Wells: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.900)
James Friday: Bill 178 (Comm. 988), in support.
Marlies Lee: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.560)
Sebastian Wells: Bill 178 (Comm. 988), in support.
(representing University of (see Comm. 988.34)
Hawaii at Hilo's Tropical
Conservation, Biology and
Environmental Science Program)
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Michelle Melendez: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.622)
Gene Tamashiro: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986); and
(representing HKGA) Bill 179 (Comm. 989), comment.
Kai Llanes: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
Henry Kaaihue: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986); and
(representing Advanced Bill 179 (Comm. 989), in opposition.
Home Builders LLC)
Joe Belisario: Bill 179 (Comm. 989), comment.
(see Comm. 989.47)
Rebecca Ostertag: Bill 178 (Comm. 988), in support.
(see Comm. 988.29)
Maika Silveria: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.593)
John Stern: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
Manuela Chamberlin: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.360)
Roger Christie: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(representing THC Ministry)
Thornton E. Chamberlin: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.359)
Kaikea K. Blakemore: Bill 178 (Comm. 988); and
(representing Neighborhood Bill 179 (Comm. 989), in support.
Place of Puna)
Christopher "Michael" Griesser: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.468)
Sherri Carden: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), comment.
Randyl Rupar: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
Joyce Alberta Folena: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Yoav Melamed: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.721)
Gregory Todd Smith: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
Naomi Melamed: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.619)
Alohalani Hope Cermelj: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
Emily Gambirg: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
Deborah J. Ward: Bill 178 (Comm. 988), comment.
(representing Sierra Club
Hawaii Island Group)
Merlyn J. Travis: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
Nami Nielipinsla: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
Carolina Visser: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.798)
April Lee: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
(see Comm. 986.870)
James Tully: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
Ginger Vogler: Res. 678-20 (Comm. 986), in support.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Council Members, I was going to run this by you, see if
anyone had any objections. I would like to take the nominee. She's been here all
morning. And then maybe after that, I think the landowner for Resolution 677 is
also still here. Yes. So, if there are no objections, I would like to do those two
things and then take a lunch break. I'm open to any comments, Council
Members, before I go with that plan.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes,please.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, we have agreement over here. So, okay, thank
you. Then, let me ask the Clerk. Is that okay? Then, we'll start with the minutes
when we resume after lunch and then take the agenda. We'll close public
testimony at this time. Okay, Mr. Clerk, can you please read
Communication 993?
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Change Order As directed by Acting Chair Eoff and with no objection from the Council
of Business: Members, the following items were taken out of order:
Comm. 993: NOMINATION OF DIANE BLANCETT-MADDOCK AND
MICHAEL OKUMOTO TO THE REAL PROPERTY TAX BOARD
OF REVIEW
From Mayor Harry Kim, dated June 30, 2020, submitting for the Council's
review and confirmation the above nominations.
Postponed: July 8, 2020
(The nomination of Diane Blancett-
Maddock was postponed.)
Waived: FC
Requires Council
Confirmation by: August 13, 2020 (Section 13-4(1),
Hawaii County Charter)
(Note: There is a motion by Ms. Villegas, seconded by Ms. Eoff, to approve
Diane Blancett-Maddock's nomination.)
ACTING CHR. EOFF: The nominee can come up to the table. She's here. And
I'm not sure if Rose is in Hilo or ifoh, Barb's here, okay. Okay, thank you,
Barb.
(Note: At this time, Deputy Managing Director Barbara Kossow and
Nominee Diane Blancett-Maddock came forward to address the members
of the Council.)
ACTING CHR. EOFF: I'll just open it up. Council Members, do you have
comments? Okay, continue with our discussion from last time. Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, thank you, Diane for still being here with us.
MR. RICHARDS: Chair, we can't hear anything here in Hilo.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay. Maybe you could take your mask off while you
speak. Put the microphone closer.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. Wait, can you hear me now?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Yeah.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. I want to thank you, Diane Blancett-Maddock, for
returning and not giving up on us. When we had our last meeting, what I did
afterwards is I called Ms. Bautista from the Mayor's Office and asked if she did
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
indeed do a check on you. She told me about some of the testifiers had mentioned
the lawsuit, and so I was told about that too.
So, I read that, and I just want to say thank you for doing that lawsuit. Because
what you did was you spoke up for that community to protect them from getting a
cell tower into their community and especially into a graveyard. I think, from
what I read, it may be a landmark caseoh, it is. So, I just want to say thank you.
If that doesn't show our community that you voiced their concerns and you stood
up for them. I commend you for that and thank you for that.
And I know that there was a concern of not being born and raised here, but as a
matter of fact, we have so many people on commissions that are not born and
raised here. And I want to thank all of them and especially you too. You're
bringing the skillsets that we need here in our County. And I didn't remember at
the time when we had our last Council meeting or Committee meeting no, it was
the Council meeting but I did get to meet you. Looking back at the police
officers' ceremony, that you wereI think you were the chair or something of
that committee. So, I apologize for not remembering that at that time because I
didn't recognize you, especially with your mask on.
But you have, since moving here, given so much of your time and talent to this
island, and we are so fortunate to have you. I don't know if I need to say anything
else because I know some testifiers were talking about land and stuff. I also went
to our Real Property Tax to make sure and try to find the facts. You don't own
land anywhere else. So, I know that. And you just have my full support. And
again, I want to thank you for your commitment to our County, and we are very
fortunate to have you. Madam Chair, I yield at this time.
MS. BLANCETT-MADDOCK: Thank you very much.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you, Ms. Poindexter. Thank you. Any
comments in Hilo? I have a couple more here I think, but I'll just check.
Ms. Villegas, did you want to say something?
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you for being here. Thank you for your resilience, your
endurance, and your continued commitment to serving our community in a role
that's stressful. It requires a level of expertise that you have. Thank you for
enduring the false and unnecessary claims that were brought. Thank you for
standing tall and strong and really choosing to continue to participate and to
continue to serve and continue to give to our community. Thank you to your
husband as well for being your support and to the other members of the Mayor's
Office and the Administration who have so diligently pursued the accurate
information and bringing that forward.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
I'm terribly sorry for the inaccurate, malicious comments that were made that
were completely not relevant to you as a person and a human being. And it will
forever remain a mystery who that person they think they're talking about. But I
hope that everyone who's come to testify in regards to this takes heed and takes a
moment to really consider their sources and the damage that can be done, and the
hurt and the pain that can be inflicted that was completely unnecessary. And
unless they have the courage and the wisdom to share their sources, in the future
they might consider keeping those comments, accusations, and charges against
someone that are completely false to themselves.
So, I just really, once again, want to thank you for your continued perseverance in
this process and your commitment and willingness to serve on a voluntary
commission with no potential for personal gain. So, my heart was really happy to
see you here, and I'm really grateful for everything that you're willing to
contribute. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you, Ms. Villegas.
MS. BLANCETT-MADDOCK: Thank you, Becca.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair. I really want to, first of all, thank Council
Member Poindexter for her diligence in looking for the facts that were basically
raised, as Ms. Villegas recalled in our first hearing. I just want to personally
apologize to you because I believe the exercise that we went through was the first
that I've seen in any kind of commission appointment. And it was the first
appointment that brought so much questions and no answers, and the effort that
was being made by this body to get facts cleared. And that's why I appreciate the
fact that Ms. Poindexter, who wanted to do her due diligence and support her
community, took the route of asking for a postponement.
So, I know we had some testifiers today, but what I really want to put on the
record is that, number one, I'm very sorry for what happened; and number two is
that when we, as a body, are reminded of our duties to vet and be sure that we
appoint people that are qualified, unless they can come forward in public as they
did and present us with valid information and factual evidence of what they're
asking us to do, I think we've done our job here today, that we have vetted some
serious accusations.
And right now, I'm very comfortable in saying that I support your nomination,
and I thank you for all that you've done for the community. And so, I will be
supporting as usual. I will maintain my support of your appointment to this very
valuable commission, and I think you'll do a wonderful job and represent the
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
community well. So, mahalo for your patience and for understanding and your
aloha. Mahalo.
MS. BLANCETT-MADDOCK: Thanks, Maile.
MS. DAVID: You're welcome.
MR. CHUNG: Karen?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Chair Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Thanks for letting me weigh in on this matter as well. I think
and I guess I'm addressing Ms. Blancett-Maddock right now both Ms. Eoff and
Ms. David both knew that I had intended to be there in Kona in person. But just
some reasons necessitated me remaining here in Hilo. But I really, on behalf of
the County Council, I wanted to issue a personal apology to the applicant, the
nominee for the very negative aspersions that were being cast toward her during
this vetting process.
When we first heard the testifiers coming up the last time during the last hearing,
it's not often that you have members of the public who are going to oppose a
nomination. So, it really caught our attention. But it became very apparent to me,
anyway, that during the course of those testimonies, there were really nothing.
They were speaking in riddles or hinting at things that could only make us guess
as to what their motivations were, or reasons were. And they talked about
lawsuits today. And I quickly looked on my phone, and what I saw was a lawsuit
against some cell tower.
I don't know what more I can say, but I really—and I kept on interfacing with
Ms. David and with Ms. Eoff just to make sure that you weren't going to back out
of this nomination. So, I'm glad that you continued, and I'm glad it ended up this
way. But I'm just really embarrassed by the way everything played out. So, I
thank you, congratulate you, but more than anything else, apologize to you for
what you had to endure.
MS. BLANCETT-MADDOCK: Thank you, Chairman.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Any other comments or
questions in Hilo? Hearing none, then, I'd like to give Ms. Blancett-Maddock a
chance if she would like to say anything. Otherwise, we can go ahead and vote.
But do you have a comment?
MS. BLANCETT-MADDOCK: I just have a few words. Thank you for asking
me back. At the last hearing, you asked me questions, and I told you that I was
drawn to serve on this board because I wanted to maintain the integrity of the
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
process. I feel even more strongly today after what happened at the last hearing
and the testimony today that my greatest contribution will be the integrity to our
process. This confirmation process is a great place to begin. The process at the
beginning hearing failed me, and it failed the people of this island. We have the
opportunity to learn from this and to make sure what happened to me last time
never happens to any other applicant again. I'm confident that you will. Thank
you very much.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you, Diane. And before we take a vote, I would
just like to say that I've known you even from before you moved here when I first
met you. But I'm just really happy that you'll be able to use some of your skills
and your skills working in another municipality before coming here to serve well
on this Real Property Tax Review Board. So, if there aren't any other comments,
did you want to say something, Barb?
MS. KOSSOW: Barbara Kossow, Deputy Managing Director.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Is your mic on?
MS. KOSSOW: Barbara Kossow, Deputy Managing Director; Mayor Kim. I,
too, would like to apologize, Diane, and also to Dave. I've known Diane from
before they even moved to Kona, as we all got introduced to both Diane and
Dave. And I've served with her on various organizations here in town. And she
has always been honest and giving and very humble. Every time we need help
here at the Civic Center—as you all know, we do a government career dayI can
depend on the Maddocks to help. And other RSVP (Retired Senior Volunteer
Program)programs that we do throughout the island, especially on this side of the
island, I can depend on this couple to help us out. So, on behalf of the
Administration, my apologies as well, and thank you for serving.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you so much, Ms. Kossow. Okay, if there's no
further comments, I would like to take a vote. All in favor of approving the
nomination of Diane Blancett-Maddock to the Real Property Tax Board of
Review, please say "aye."
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Vote on The motion to confirm the appointment of Ms. Diane
Diane Blancett- Blancett-Maddock to the Real Property Tax Board of
Maddock: Review was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Eoff—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries. I'd just like to take a really quick recess
before they leave and thenoh, okay. Can you guys wait while we do the next
one? How about we just take Resolution 677 so the landowner can also leave,
and then we'll recess for lunch. Mr. Clerk, please read Resolution 677-20. And
thank you, sir, for waiting.
Res. 677-20: AUTHORIZES THE DIRECTOR OF FINANCE TO ENTER INTO
NEGOTIATIONS FOR THE ACQUISITION OF LAND AND
CONSERVATION EASEMENT FOR THE PROPERTY IDENTIFIED AS TAX
MAP KEYS 7-9-001; 013; 014; AND 015 IN THE AHUPUA`A OF KAUMOO,
DISTRICT OF SOUTH KONA KEAUHOU 1 AND 2, PURSUANT TO
CHAPTER 2, ARTICLE 42, HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION,
AS AMENDED)
The County seeks to acquire the properties in whole or conservation easements to
preserve rare Hawaiian dry forests, historic cultural sites, and protect native
endangered species. The parcels were listed as the second highest priority for
purchase in the 2019 Annual Report of the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural
Resources Preservation Commission.
Reference: Comm. 984
Intr. by: Ms. Villegas
Approve: FC-125
Motion to Approve: Ms. Villegas moved to adopt Res. 677-20 and Finance
Committee Report No. 125. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Ms. Villegas. You have Mr. Lee here as well.
MS. VILLEGAS: Aloha, Mr. Lee. Thanks for being here again today. I'm super
excited for this project, super excited for the opportunity, and incredibly grateful
for your patience this morning in joining us and going through all the public
testimony. So, I'm really excited to continue supporting this resolution.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Would you like to say a few words? Just make sure you
give us your name and then you can go ahead.
(Note: At this time, Wade Lee, owner of Haloa `Rina which manages the
subject property, came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. LEE: My name is Wade Lee, and I'm the owner of Haloa `Rina. I just
wanted to say that at the last Council meeting, the Council requested that we
identify which ahupua`a we were talking about—
ACTING
boutACTING CHR. EOFF: Oh, that's right.
MR. LEE: Because it was Kuamo`o and Kaumo`o. Both names are used, as is
typical in the Hawaiian language. I've been working with Maxine, and we kind
of decided to go with the USGS (United States Geological Survey) 1912 survey.
So, it will be "Kaumo`o." And then the spelling of one of the pu`us that we have
on our property that is the intersection of the mauka King's Trail and the Lupea
Trail coming up from Keauhou 1 is Kiki`ae`ae. And Maxine and I have spelled
that correctly now. So, she has all the information. So, hopefully everybody's
okay, and I just wanted to be here to see if anybody's got any other questions
they'd like to ask.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, very good. Thank you. Let me just check with the
Council Members. Are there any questions, Council Member? No? Okay, well,
thank you again for allowing us to purchase this property and for being here
today. All in favor, please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 677-20: The motion to adopt Res. 677-20 and Finance Committee
(Adopted) Report No. 125 was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Eoff–9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries. Resolution 677 is approved. And unless
there's anything else pressing before we take a lunch break, I'd like to give us a, I
guess, well, about an hour break. Okay, so
MR. HENRICKS: Can we say you said you wanted—how about 1:30 then, as a
more—instead of an hour. Is that all right?
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
ACTING CHR. EOFF: 1:30, okay. We'll reconvene at 1:30.
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you, Madam Chair.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: And now we're in recess. Thank you so much.
Recess: At 12:38 p.m., Acting Chair Eoff called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 1:36 p.m.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, Council Members, I'd like to call our meeting out
of recess and start at the top of the agenda.
Return to Order Acting Chair Eoff directed the Council to return to the order of business.
of Business:
APPROVAL Acting Chair Eoff directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
OF MINUTES: Approval of Minutes.
Vote on Approval Ms. David moved to approve the Minutes of April 22,
of Minutes: 2020. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and carried
(Approved) by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, and Acting Chair Eoff—7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Kierkiewicz and Villegas —2.
Excused: None.
Vote on Approval Ms. David moved to approve the Minutes of May 6, 2020.
of Minutes: Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following
(Approved) voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Poindexter,
Richards, and Acting Chair Eoff—7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Kierkiewicz and Villegas —2.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Vote on Approval Ms. David moved to approve the Minutes of May 20, 2020.
of Minutes: Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following
(Approved) voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, and Acting Chair Eoff—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Villegas — 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries, and we're finished with the Approval of
the Minutes. And we can move on to Communication 1007.
COMMUNI- Acting Chair Eoff directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
Comm. 1007: DONATION OF 300 CLOTH FACE COVERINGS
From Finance Director Deanna Sako, dated July 2, 2020, requesting the Council's
approval to accept a donation from Bridget Milligan valued at$600 to be used in
the fight against COVID-19.
Waived: FC
Motion to Approve: Ms. David moved to accept the donation of 300 cloth face
coverings. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Any discussion? No? Well, thank you very much for
that donation, Ms. Milligan. All in favor,please say "aye."
Vote on The motion to accept the donation of 300 cloth face
Comm. 1007: coverings was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, and Acting Chair Eoff—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Villegas — 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Comm. 1008: DONATION OF A FOGGING MACHINE
From Finance Director Deanna Sako, dated July 2, 2020, requesting the Council's
approval to accept a donation from Malama Property Services LLC valued at$200
to be used in the fight against COVID-19.
Waived: FC
Motion to Approve: Ms. David moved to accept the donation of a fogging
machine. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Any discussion? Thank you very much for the donation.
All in favor,please say "aye."
Vote on The motion to accept the donation of a fogging machine
Comm. 1008: was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, and Acting Chair Eoff—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Villegas — 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries.
ORDER OF Acting Chair Eoff directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions.
(Note: Res. 677-20 was taken up previously, out of order.)
Res. 678-20: CALLS UPON ALL TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMPANIES AND PUBLIC
UTILITIES OPERATING IN HAWAII COUNTY TO CEASE THE BUILDOUT
OF 5G WIRELESS INFRASTRUCTURE UNTIL SUCH TECHNOLOGIES
HAVE BEEN PROVEN THROUGH INDEPENDENT RESEARCH AND
TESTING TO BE SAFE TO HUMAN HEALTH AND THE ENVIRONMENT
Reference: Comm. 986
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder
Approve: PC-48
(Note: Comm. 986.284, from Corporation Counsel Joseph K. Kamelamela, dated
July 22, 2020, providing an update with respect to County involvement with the
installation of small wireless facilities by telecommunication companies within
Hawaii County, was circulated.)
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Motion to Approve: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to adopt Res. 678-20 and
Planning Committee Report No. 48. Seconded by
Ms. David.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Go ahead, Matt.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. We had this discussion two weeks
ago in Committee. I just want to start again by saying that Resolution 678-20 has
nothing to do with existing cellphone infrastructure and only to do with the
deployment of 5G (Fifth-Generation Wireless) technology. As a reminder, we do
not need 5G in order for our cellphones to work, and we have other options that
are just increasing connectivity in our County.
Since the last meeting, I have received hundreds of emails; I would say close to
the range of 500 testimonies, emails, phone calls from citizens from across the
State. And today we heard 32 supportive testimonies from the public in regards
to Resolution 678-20. There was only one opponent of the resolution two weeks
ago, a member from District 5 as well. So, we have a lot of public support for this
resolution. I think that's what's important for us to remember.
Counties, states, and other countries are limiting the rollout of this technology
based on the health concerns of their citizens. And I was going to say this again,
so we nail this down. Let me say this: There has been no study to date that shows
the technology is safe. Overall, I'm concerned for the safety and wellbeing of our
citizens, and I'm concerned for the densely populated areas like schools and
neighborhoods where cell deployment will be as frequent as every 250 feet.
I know Joe Kamelamela is here, and I received a letter today (see
Comm. 986.284). Joe, if you want to come up, we can discuss the contents of
that, and you can explain what you submitted to the Council. Joe is here, for
everyone's information, from Corporation Counsel.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Are you asking him to come forward at this time?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: He is coming forward right now.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Joseph Kamelamela came
forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. KAMELAMELA: Just to make things easier, I think I need to take off my
mask.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go ahead, Joe. Thank you.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. KAMELAMELA: Thank you. Aloha, everybody. Joseph Kamelamela,
Corp. Counsel. The letter that I submitted was to address a couple of issues that
were brought up the last time. It took me a while because this is a very
complicated and a complex issue, actually, where we have Federal law saying
something, then with the State adding a different layer. And then, we have the
County where we're trying to do our best to follow and comply with those laws. I
wasn't going to read it.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, no need but if we could get the
highlights of it.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Basically, there were two questions that were asked from
the last Committee. So, what I did, I looked at what the resolution was asking and
the big purpose of it is what Council Member Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder had
talked about, which again we're testing.
And so in that light, then, I looked at that issue because one of the questions out
of two was can we compel the telecommunications providers to submit a health
study? And that would basically prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the RF
(radio frequency) emissions are unsafe to human health and the environment.
And the answer to that was "No." There's really nothing in that light. But at the
most, what we could do is take steps to ensure that at the least these companies
comply with the current Federal standards that we have.
What I was informed of today in regards to Federal standards, the FCC (Federal
Communications Commission) is doing a review of the guidelines that help them
determine as to what is the acceptable risk dealing with emissions now. I have no
idea when that's going to be done. I was just informed that they're going through
the process. That was one of the questions.
The second issue was notification of the adjacent landowners or community
whenever they apply so that we can get some kind of input. So, I think that's
something that we could do because we see something like that when the people
seek approval for cell towers in zoned districts. And I think I presented a copy of
what Planning uses as they look at the application, and I noticed in there that
there's a requirement that the company notify adjacent landowners or community
whenever they seek to install cell towers. So, that's the gist.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So, that letter was an opinion?
Update? What would you call it?
MR. KAMELAMELA: No, it's just an update as to what the current situations
are.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. KAMELAMELA: So, what we cut, it doesn't address whether it's the
appropriateness of this resolution because you could always do that. What you're
doing is appropriate. So, it doesn't address that issue. It just answers or tries to
answer the questions that were posed by Council Members in the previous
Committee meeting.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So, are you saying that the County of
Hawaii cannot make decisions in regards to telecommunications to protect the
public safety of our own citizens?
MR. KAMELAMELA: So, this is a resolution. I think it's appropriate that we
should let the Federal government know or maybe there's something that can be
picked up by our Federal counterparts in the Senate to see if they can pursue the
concept of looking at the issue again. I think this was a great idea to look at the
issue and then see what's best in terms of people's health and wellbeing because I
was hearing some of the testimony and
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And there is a lot. I mean,just to know that
we had about 55 from the last meeting and this meeting, public testimony, not
including all the emailed testimonies, which we have about 280 this time and 180
last time, pretty much all in support.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah. So, I'm assuring that there's more and more
information that's going to be developed even past this period in time.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So, instead of getting too deep into this, is
the Administration open to this resolution?
MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah, all I know is that we're trying to enforce what we
have now because that's what we do. And then, we want to make sure that the
companies comply with what we have now.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I took a look at H.B. 2651 (House
Bill 2651), which is the bill that you mentioned which is preempted by the
Federal Telecommunications Act of '96. And then, your letter uses H.B. 2651 to
dissect what the County can and cannot do is what I was understanding, yeah. Is
that right?
MR. KAMELAMELA: Right.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And from there, you are feeling like
currently the County I'm just going to read from this, "has no authority to
require telecommunication companies to submit a health report that evaluates and
establishes by proof that RF is safe to the human health and environment."
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. KAMELAMELA: Right.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I just want to say that because I
looked over 2651. I read it very closely, and I've also read the Federal
Telecommunications Act a few times now. Both of them, very early in the
documents, state that—and I'm just going to read this as well, " . . . small wireless
facilities shall not interfere with public safety . . . " That's from the State bill.
And then the Telecommunications Act in 253(b) says, "Nothing in this section
shall affect the ability of a State to impose requirements necessary to protect the
public safety and welfare and safeguard the rights of consumers."
So, in both Federal and State laws, we have very clear language. And they left it
vague, and I think they left it vague for a purpose so as not to define it on whether
a box falls on your head on a sidewalk in a County right-of-way or whether it's
anything else. It's just to protect public safety and welfare. In Europe, they call
that the "precautionary principle." And I would hope that our County has the
same ideal in mind when we talk about public safety, which comes down to the
point—it really boils down to the point of the resolution.
MR. KAMELAMELA: So, in the State statute then, there's a couple of points
being made. The State statute really doesn't mention the emissions, but the
Federal act does. It's kind of clear, the Federal. If you read it, it's basically
saying that as long as the small wireless companies or the telecommunications
companies comply with FCC regulations concerning the RF emissions, that's
something for the counties or the State not to challenge. So, that's how you read
the Federal. But in the State, it's really not clear having a statement like that. But
the (inaudible)begins with the Federal law. The Federal law would preempt that.
The second part about the statute too, when it comes to public safety the statute
itself outlines the area where the County can deny the proposed colocation of a
small wireless facility. So, in that statute, it lists at least seven areas that are there
that if they don't follow, then the County is going to deny it.
For example, I kind of recall there was a separate resolution that's kind of related
to this, where had Danny Patel from our office and David Yamamoto here talking
about an application by, I think it was AT&T. So,they had noted that when the
applications first came in, had ten locations and so an issue was raised about that.
And so, they sort of cut back on it because of some of the areas of concern that we
had that were related to what's in the statute. It's my understanding now they
have an application for seven.
But we're still working through it,just to let you know. And I'm not too sure if
they had informed the Council that there is a tolling agreement, you know,
because of the short clock. We had made an agreement that, because this is the
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
first one that we're looking at, to wait. We'll withhold it until August 10'h
because there are things to work on it.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Again, sorry, what I see in the Federal act is
the ability of a state to impose requirements necessary to protect public safety.
And that to me, we cannot undermine that. And the State law cannot preempt
that, correct?
MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah, but, so that's just the general statement, but we
know, as I stated before, that the FCC had basically come out with a rule saying,
State and the instrumentalities, we cannot regulate the emissions part as long as
the companies comply with the FCC requirements.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Which is under review right now.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Which is under review.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Which means that—well, could mean a
number of things.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Yes, it could be a number of things. And the Federal
system, as it does its rulemaking, sometimes it's like one to two years before they
actually complete one review.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And this FCC rule they're reviewing is
MR. KAMELAMELA: Related to the
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The emissions.
MR. KAMELAMELA: The emissions.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And that was the 1996 decision that was
made?
MR. KAMELAMELA: So, we're looking, currently they had, I'm not too sure
what year, but so whatever standard they had set, that's it. I don't know what date
that was. All I know is that there is a
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I believe it was 1996, and that was really
before they had invented 2G, much less 3 or 4G
MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah, that's prior to that time.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And gone on to more complicated
technology, and I don't think they expected this level of deployment. So, that's
why I find it prudent on our part to be thoughtful and think about what we can do
to protect our citizens. That's really what it comes down to. I'm not against
cellphone connectivity. I have a cellphone. I have horrible reception at my
house. I do not have fiber at my house. But I can say that we have to protect our
citizens.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Right. And I think the word that I wanted to use wasn't
"thoughtful"but"be vigilant always."
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes. I appreciate you answering questions.
I have one more comment to make, but I'd like to hear if other Council Members
have concerns or interest in this matter. If not, then I'll make my final comment;
we can go from there.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you. Ms. David has a question, I believe, or
comment.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair. And thank you, Mr. Kamelamela, for being
here today and for the letter that you provided. I read your letter and, on the last
page, I just had a question on the paragraph before your summary that says that
the Public Works Department is considering having applicants submit
documentation to show that the installation will be compliant with RF emissions.
And then, they will ask for, like, post-testing to ensure compliance. And then, it
goes on to say, in addition, they will be requiring public notification by an
applicant. Is this something that DPW (Department of Public Works) has been
doing, will do ?
MR. KAMELAMELA: That's a good question. So, this is a new process.
Unlike the Planning Department, because they deal with cell towers, all of that,
they already have a system that there's an application. So, if there's no real
application, so they've started the process of making sure that certain things are
done. And so, we had been working with Honolulu, similar, so we can set up a
proper process so that—like I said, we have to be vigilant because some of these
companies, it's the details that matter. So, we want to make sure that everything
that the County needs to protect its interest is there. Yeah, so, you're right. It's
something that we don't have an application process in writing like what we have
in Planning, but that's a work in progress. And that's one of the reasons why
there's a tolling agreement. Good question, by the way.
MS. DAVID: Okay. And so, then, I see this as DPW actually intending to
initiate or include in their process what the Planning Department already has,
specifically to notify adjoining property owners when a proposal comes out. Is
that what they're trying to accomplish?
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. KAMELAMELA: Right because it's important that the adjacent landowners
and the community knows what they're doing within their area.
MS. DAVID: Yeah, and that also makes our procedures or processes between
interdepartmental agencies kind of consistent, where one agency or one
department's doing what is pretty much a standard procedure on their attachments
for the special permit applications. And then DPW, if they can be consistent with
that process, I think it'll address the notice question that I was asking on notifying
people because there are concerns in my district that towers are just going up
without notification. And there's been several calls I've had that some people
didn't even know that these towers were going to go in at all. So, if we can be
consistent and if DPW is working on this, I urge them to do this right away. And
in the meantime, thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, for bringing this forward
and bringing this issue out in the open because there's a lot of concern. So, with
that, I'm going to yield, and mahalo.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you. Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah. And thank you, Matt, for bringing this forward
because I really believe that our County needs to have more engagement with this.
But we talked about the notification, and how far does that notification reach?
From the tower to what? Just the neighbors right in that area? That's the problem
that was happening in Pepe`ekeo that not everybody gets notified. So, there's a
problem in itself that needs to be fixed, and I think that can be done by coming to
Council and looking at where those provisions are in our rules and regs
(regulations) or even our ordinance.
But, Joe, on the communication act, it gives the State and the local authority, the
County, the authority over zoning and land use decisions over personal wireless
service facilities. Correct?
MR. KAMELAMELA: Yes. So, it's kind of like—but we're kind of looking at a
lot of different things that go into the evaluating
MS. POINDEXTER: Right. So, the communication act still gives us the
authority over this. So, Matt, I would suggest looking at—and I'll help to
research that too but what do we need to do in our zoning and land use policies
that we can put in there to make sure that we don't move ahead with 5G until such
time, whatever, whatever.
When I've done some research, I know some counties in different parts of the
states have written policies to protect their communities. And I don't mind
looking into it more, but I'm saying the communications act gives us the right,
through our zoning and land use, for personal, the wireless facilities, and it gives
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
us that authority. And it sets forth some specific limitations on that authority;
however, they're giving us authority. So, we just need to look into that more.
I believe our County needs to step it up. Because like I said before, the
regulations, who's regulating all our towers on our island? Because when we
thought it was—was it FAA (Federal Aviation Administration), Joe, you guys
thought?
MR. KAMELAMELA: So, specifically with the FAA, I know that if anything's
over 200 feet. So, that's the magic number, I think, 200 feet.
MS. POINDEXTER: Right. So, (inaudible).
MR. KAMELAMELA: Then, the FAA gets involved. The FCC gets involved in
what we're talking about now.
MS. POINDEXTER: So, the FCC's not involved in most of the towers, I would
say, on our island because they stay below the ceiling,just below the 200 feet.
And I think I kept talking about that, about how we need to find out because I
don't see PUC(Public Utilities Commission)regulating it. This is our island. This
is our County. We need to, like what Matt had stated, the health and wellbeing of
our people that we need to protect. So, yeah, I would encourage you, Joe, to look
into that on how we can maybe put some regulations into our zoning and land use.
I'll yield at this time, Madam Chair. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you, Ms. Poindexter. In Hilo, are there people
wishing to comment or questions?
MR. KAMELAMELA: Yeah, I just wanted to respond to what Val just said. We
are working with both Planning and Public Works to make sure that there's a
better process as we go through this.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you.
MR. RICHARDS: Chair?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Sure, go ahead, Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, thanks. First of all, I want to say I do appreciate this
conversation coming forward, Matt. I don't disagree with you on the concern for
RFR (radio frequency radiation). But my question remains the same. This is
specific to 5G, and what about 4G, 3G, 2G? Because everything that I can study
and my conversations I've had with people that know far more than any of us, the
concern for the radio frequency, however you want to characterize it,
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
electromagnetic waves, whatever, is actually across the board. And I've
wondered about this over the years. And how do we go forward with that?
And for this resolution, I know it's nonbinding. And my concern for the
community as a whole, I met with one of my constituents and I really appreciated
her perspective, that she thinks we should eliminate, as much as we can, all of it
and go to fiber optic, which I think there's definitely a perspective there. The
struggle that we have going forward is that I think we need to review this
categorically rather than specifically, meaning looking at the emissions that we
have today. And by stating against 5G, in my mind there's that implying that 4G
has been completely evaluated, and I think we all know that that's not the case as
it may be.
And so, though I appreciate this conversation and I appreciate the fact that it does
raise a concernwe don't need to get into the science of all of it—but I think I
agree that things need to be explored further. But I'm mindful of going into this
next school year and the connectivity that we're talking about and the fact that we
have purchased four or, excuse me, are in the process of purchasing
40 transmitters. And we're in a very unique time going forward.
And so though I appreciate, and I am very concerned about the electromagnetic
waves, this resolution, as written, I cannot support because I think it specifies to
one technology when we're ignoring the rest. I just wanted to make that
comment. I agree with the concern going forward. I mean, we use it for MRIs
(magnetic resonance imaging). We go through any of the security. We have
those waves going through us and all. There's the bigger picture that we
definitely need to talk to. But this resolution, as written, I wish it was more
encompassing. So, Chair, I yield. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you. Any other comments from Hilo? Hearing
none, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, I wanted to come back to you.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. What I heard today was
very resounding. And like I said, we've been bombarded with support for this
resolution. And Tim touched on it—this is nonbinding. But it is an urge, and it is
our responsibility as elected officials to listen to our citizens and our constituents.
And I would remind everyone that the people we heard from today were a broad
spectrum of Hawaii County.
We're supposed to listen to them, and we're supposed to make good decisions.
So, I'm urging everyone just to remember that, in Europe, this is called the
precautionary approach: Prove it's safe before you implement. Listen to your
constituents. There's a large sentiment in our people that 5G is not safe, and this
resolution was a response to the citizens' request.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
We're urging the Administration to require something very simple: It's
independent testing of the 5G emissions. I do feel, at this point, that we have
Federal- and State-guided abilities to impose requirements that protect the public
safety and welfare of our constituents. I'm not against cellular connectivity. I
chose 5G for a reason, and I will continue to protect the safety of our citizens.
I look forward to your support for this, and I understand this is an interesting
topic. I am not an authority on the subject, but I am speaking for my people. So,
I yield. Thank you, Chair.
MR. CHUNG: Karen?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you. Sure, go ahead, Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: I just wanted to make my position clear on this matter. I voted in
favor of it at the Committee level. I'm going to continue voting in favor of it as
well here on final reading. But as I stated yesterday on a different matter, we can
agree on a measure, but there are varying degrees of agreement and varying
reasons.
And for this one, I am strongly in support of building up or improving our digital
infrastructure. If the COVID (coronavirus disease) situation has proven anything
on this island and throughout the nation, we have to build up that
interconnectivity. If for no other people, it's for those students who are in the
outlying areas of this bandwidth area because they really had a lost year in terms
of education. But really, the new normal is going to call for remote commerce all
done though interconnectivity. It's vital for the lifeblood of our economy already.
And just life in general, that's going to be the new normal.
As far as 5G, I also shared a story with all of you guys regarding the 69kv
(kilovolt) line that traversed an easement next to my former property and the
unease that it gave me, so much so that I decided to sell it because I was starting a
family and I didn't want my children to be exposed to any possible
electromagnetic waves that may be coming from that line. And really, I don't
know if there were any harmful effects or would be, but I just felt uneasy about it.
So, that kind of gives you a little bit of an idea of where I stand on certain things.
But at the same time, I also believe that during every minute of our lives, we're
exposed to dangerous things. It doesn't necessarily mean that we have to increase
our exposure to different or harmful things, but the fact of the matter is we are.
And it all comes down to comfort levels.
I tell people, and I made it very clear, I use Roundup. I protect myself when I do
it because of all the, maybe, information or even misinformation coming out
about it. No matter what I'm going to take the extra precaution, but I use it. It all
comes down to comfort level. In this one, it's a nonbinding resolution. I don't
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
know what kind of safety study can ever be created that's going to satisfy people;
I really don't.
But my vote today in favor of this is just a statement saying that we should look
into the safety aspects of it because there may be some problems. I really don't
know. I'm not an expert. But I'm going to err on the side of caution on this one,
and I shared my experiences in that regard. So, that's all it is. But I really do
favor digital infrastructure buildout as well because it's vitally important to what
we do as human beings already for the rest of our lives, I think. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Any other comments?
Ms. Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: It concerns me that we can sit here and listen to dozens of
people talk about their concerns and asking for us to represent them and vote
according to what they're asking for to make every effort possible to protect them
from the potential harms caused by 5G technology. Yes, we need more
connectivity and internet service in some of our more rural areas. It's something
that's being worked on with R&D (Research and Development) through mobile
units. We also have opportunities to bring 3G to these areas.
But the national, international, and local outcry essentially begging political
leadership to make decisions representing the will of the people is what I'm
hearing. And I firmly believe that my job is to represent the people. Not play
politics, but to represent the people and what they're asking for. And to take into
consideration all the facts, all the science, all the evidence whether or not I'm an
expert or not. The difference to me seems as simple as holding your hand over a
small lighter versus sticking your hand into an enormous bonfire. The potential
for damage and danger to human life, to our natural ecosystems, to a multitude of
species, far outweighs the benefits. And the purpose of this technology is to
incorporate a level of technology that we're not ready for anyway. So, it's not
necessary, and we have other things to work on.
And in the interim, I will be strongly supporting this bill, will be strongly
encouraging our Corp. Counsel to dig a little deeper, try a little harder, have the
courage to look at communities who've decided to find it within the structure of
the law and the service of the people to represent what they've asked for us to do,
which is to protect them from the harms and potential damage that can be done by
5G technology infiltrating the Big Island. With that, I yield.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Any other ?
MR. CHUNG: Karen?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Mr. Chung.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, it's me again.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Sure.
MR. CHUNG: I wanted to make one more comment. I forgot to mention it too,
and it relates to the information being provided by members of the public. And a
lot of it's very important and very pertinent. But at the same time, a lot of it was
misinformation as well, not unlike what we heard during the course of that
appointment for that poor woman. There's this one guy who made this bold
statement that even Japan is banning 5G. Where the heck did he get that from?
Japan is banning Huawei from getting into their 5G because of cybersecurity
issues. But they're full speed ahead on 5G.
So, it's really difficult to decipher fact from fiction when we're listening to all of
this information. I just bring that up so that we kind of weigh everything and
make sure we do our homework on all of this. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you. Anybody else? Then I guess we can
go ahead and take a vote. All in favor of Resolution 678,please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 678-20: The motion to adopt Res. 678-20 and Planning Committee
(Adopted) Report No. 48 was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Poindexter, Villegas, and
Acting Chair Eoff—8.
Noes: Council Member Richards — 1.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: The resolution is adopted. Moving on, Resolution 682.
Res. 682-20: AUTHORIZES THE OFFICE OF THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO AN
INTERGOVERNMENTAL LIMITED RIGHT-OF-ENTRY AGREEMENT WITH
THE HAWAII PUBLIC HOUSING AUTHORITY, STATE OF HAWAII,
PURSUANT TO HAWAII REVISED STATUTES SECTION 46-7, TO OBTAIN
ACCESS TO LANAKILA HOMES, TAX MAP KEY: 2-4-028:007, FOR THE
PURPOSE OF ROAD RESURFACING
Reference: Comm. 998
Intr. by: Ms. Lee Loy (B/R)
Waived: PWMTC
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to adopt Res. 682-20. Seconded by
Mr. Richards.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Go ahead, Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. This is actually rather straightforward. It's
an agreement to get the roads paved in that area. It was asked to be waived up,
and I'm just asking for everyone's support. We know our community wants their
roads paved, so this is just one more opportunity for work to get done. I yield.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you. Any other comments? Hearing none, all in
favor please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 682-20: The motion to adopt Res. 682-20 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas,
and Acting Chair Eoff—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Chair?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Hello?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This is Matt.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Hi.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Can I have a point of personal information
or personal privilege?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Go ahead.
ANNOUNCE- MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Before I forget, I wanted to commend
MENT: Deputy Clerk Aaron Brown today for being a very good County worker and man
today in light of some testimony and testifiers in the Hilo office. And I know, I
think Jon would be very proud of how Aaron Brown handled the situation this
morning. I just wanted to say mahalo to Aaron Brown for handling that outside.
It was happening right when we started the meeting and were doing the Pledge of
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Allegiance and during Ms. Kierkiewicz' very nice gesture towards the Bodacious
Women of Puna. So I just wanted to take a moment before I forget.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Well, thank you for saying that and thank you to
Mr. Brown, and I guess we should say thank you to the staff over here too in
Kona. We didn't have the exact same issues as you, but it was a challenging
morning. We had a lot of testifiers and trying to keep everybody safe. Actually,
everybody did a great job. So thank you, Matt.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo for the latitude.
MR. CHUNG: Karen?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Yes, Mr. Chung?
MR. CHUNG: You now, Duane Hosaka has been sitting over here for
Resolution 691. I'm wondering if we can take that out of order.
Change Order As directed by the Acting Chair and with no objections from Council Members,
of Business: the following item was taken out of order:
Res. 691-20: AUTHORIZES THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO A MULTI-YEAR LEASE
AGREEMENT WITH PAPA`ALOA HOUSING INC. FOR THE
REHABILITATION OF THE PAPA`ALOA ELDERLY HOUSING PROJECT
LOCATED IN THE DISTRICT OF HAMAKUA, HAWAII, TAX MAP
KEY: 3-5-003:049
Authorizes the Mayor to enter into a multi-year lease agreement to rehabilitate and
maintain the existing rental housing apartment for senior citizens at a set lease rate
of$10 per year.
Reference: Comm. 1010
Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R)
Waived: FC
Motion to Approve: Ms. David moved to adopt Res. 691-20. Seconded by
Ms. Poindexter.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: I apologize, Administrator Duane Hosaka is in Hilo Chambers. If
he'd like to say anything, if anyone has questions. If not, I just would ask for
Council member support on this one.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Did Mr. Hosaka want to come forward, or are we just
going to go ahead?
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: He's coming up, Chair.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Oh, he is. Okay.
(Note: At this time, Housing Administrator Duane Hosaka came forward
to address the members of the Council.)
MR. HOSAKA: Duane Hosaka, Housing Administrator. I would just ask for the
Council's support for this project. We're going to be doing 10 new homes, then
relocate those people in the existing homes into that and then build 10 more. So
there's going to be a total of 20 units and a community center. So I just ask for
your support. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you. Does anybody have questions? Okay, then
thank you very much. All in favor,please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 691-20: The motion to adopt Res. 691-20 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas,
and Acting Chair Eoff—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries. Resolution 691 is approved. Going back
now to 685, resolution.
Return to Order Acting Chair Eoff directed the Council to return to the Order of Business.
of Business:
Res. 685-20: AUTHORIZES THE ACCEPTANCE OF A DONATION OF
442 TOURNIQUETS WITH ACCESSORIES FROM THE SPIRIT OF THE BLUE
FOUNDATION TO THE COUNTY OF HAWAII POLICE DEPARTMENT
Reference: Comm. 1002
Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R)
Waived: FC
Motion to Approve: Ms. David moved to adopt Res. 685-20. Seconded by
Ms. Poindexter.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Ms. David.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MS. DAVID: Yes, I'd just like to say mahalo to the Spirit of the Blue Foundation
for their donation and ask for your support.
ACTING CHAIR EOFF: Okay. All in favor, please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 685-20: The motion to adopt Res. 685-20 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Eoff—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder— 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Resolution 685 is adopted. Resolution 686.
Res. 686-20: AUTHORIZES THE ACCEPTANCE OF A DONATION 300 BAGS OF RICE
FROM THE BUDDHIST TZU CHI FOUNDATION TO THE COUNTY OF
HAWAII DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND RECREATION FOR ITS
EMERGENCY MEAL PROGRAM
Reference: Comm. 1003
Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R)
Waived: FC
Motion to Approve: Ms. David moved to adopt Res. 686-20. Seconded by
Ms. Poindexter.
MS. DAVID: Thank you. I'd just like to, Chair, I'd just like to say mahalo to
the Buddhist Tzu Chi for their generous donation for our kupuna. And ask for
your support. Mahalo.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you. Any other comments? Seeing none,
all in favor,please say "aye."
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Vote on Res. 686-20: The motion to adopt Res. 686-20 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Acting
Chair Eoff—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries. Resolution 687.
Res. 687-20: AUTHORIZES THE ACCEPTANCE OF 1,200 COLLAPSIBLE WATER NGS
FROM THE STATE OF HAWAII, HAWAII EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT
AGENCY FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND
RECREATION
Reference: Comm. 1004
Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R)
Waived: FC
Motion to Approve: Ms. David moved to adopt Res. 687-20. Seconded by
Ms. Poindexter.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Any comments?
MS. DAVID: Yes,just want to say mahalo again to the Emergency Management
Agency for this generous donation and ask for your support.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay thank you. All in favor say "aye."
Vote on Res. 687-20: The motion to adopt Res. 687-20 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Acting
Chair Eoff—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries. Resolution 687 is approved.
Resolution 688.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Res. 688-20: AUTHORIZES THE ACCEPTANCE OF A DONATION OF STAGHORN
FERNS FROM GENE MONNIER TO THE COUNTY OF HAWAII
DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND RECREATION PANA`EWA RAINFOREST
ZOO AND GARDEN
Reference: Comm. 1005
Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R)
Waived: FC
Motion to Approve: Ms. David moved to adopt Res. 688-20. Seconded by
Ms. Poindexter.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Just mahalo for these donations and ask for your support. Mahalo.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: All in favor say "aye."
Vote on Res. 688-20: The motion to adopt Res. 688-20 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Acting
Chair Eoff—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries. Resolution 688 is approved. Res. 689.
Res. 689-20: AUTHORIZES THE ACCEPTANCE OF A DONATION OF 40 GALLONS OF
HAND SANITIZER FROM KULEANA RUM WORKS TO THE COUNTY OF
HAWAII CIVIL DEFENSE AGENCY
Reference: Comm. 1006
Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R)
Waived: FC
Motion to Approve: Ms. David moved to adopt Res. 689-20. Seconded by
Ms. Poindexter.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Ms. David.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MS. DAVID: Just mahalo to the Kuleana Rum Works for their generous
donations and ask for your support. Mahalo.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: All in favor say "aye."
Vote on Res. 689-20: The motion to adopt Res. 689-20 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Acting
Chair Eoff—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries. Resolution 689 is approved. Res. 690.
Res. 690-20: AUTHORIZES THE ACCEPTANCE OF A DONATION OF 1,000 CLOTH FACE
COVERINGS FROM VIBRANT HAWAII TO THE COUNTY OF HAWAII
CIVIL DEFENSE AGENCY
Reference: Comm. 1009
Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R)
Waived: FC
Motion to Approve: Ms. David moved to adopt Res. 690-20. Seconded by
Ms. Poindexter.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Yes. Again, thank you so much for the donation of these very
needed masks, Vibrant Hawaii, and ask for your support.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you. Any other comments? Hearing none, all in
favor say "aye."
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Vote on Res. 690-20: The motion to adopt Res. 690-20 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Acting
Chair Eoff—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries. Resolution 690 is approved. We took
care of 691, so we'll move on to Bill 178.
BILLS FOR Acting Chair Eoff directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES Bills for Ordinances (First Reading).
(FIRST READING)
Bill 178: AMENDS CHAPTER 19, ARTICLE 8, SECTION 19-59, OF THE HAWAII
COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO
NATIVE FOREST DEDICATIONS
Creates three native forest categories (native forests, functional forests, and
successional forests), and establishes a dedication process for forest preservation and
restoration.
Reference: Comm. 988
Intr. by: Ms. Poindexter
Approve: FC-126
Motion to Approve: Ms. Poindexter moved to pass Bill 178 on first reading and
adopt Finance Committee Report No. 126. Seconded by
Ms. David.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: We had a long discussion at the Committee level, I think
that was enough said, but if anybody has any questions at this time (inaudible). If
not, I just ask for your support. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you. Any comments? Hearing none, I'd just like
to thank Ms. Poindexter for bringing this forward. All in favor, please say "aye."
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Vote on Bill 178: The motion to pass Bill 178 on first reading and adopt
(Approved) Finance Committee Report Number 126 was carried by the
following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Acting
Chair Eoff—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries. Bill 178 will move to second reading.
Bill 179.
Bill 179: ESTABLISHES A COUNTY CONSTRUCTION CODE RELATING TO
BUILDING CONSTRUCTION AND RELATED SYSTEMS WITHIN A
BUILDING UNDER CONSTRUCTION BY AMENDING THE HAWAII
COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), AS FOLLOWS:
1) ADOPTS NEW CHAPTERS 5 (CONSTRUCTION ADMINISTRATIVE
CODE), 5A (BUILDING CODE), 5D (ELECTRICAL CODE), 5E(ENERGY
CONSERVATION CODE), AND 5F (PLUMBING CODE);
2) AMENDS CHAPTER 2, SECTION 2-39; CHAPTER 3, SECTIONS 3-14
AND 3-15; AND CHAPTER 25, SECTIONS 25-1-5, 25-4-10, AND 25-4-60;
AND
3) REPEALING CHAPTERS 5 (BUILDING CODE), 9 (ELECTRICAL CODE),
AND 17 (PLUMBING CODE)
Establishes a new Construction Code for the County of Hawaii by: repealing
existing Chapter 5 (Building), Chapter 9 (Electricity), and Chapter 17 (Plumbing);
creating new chapters for installation provisions for Building, Electrical, Energy
Conservation, and Plumbing; and combining administrative provisions from
Chapter 5, Chapter 9, and Chapter 17 into a single, new chapter. The amendments
also include adoption of a new electrical code based on the 2017 National Electrical
Code and adoption of a new plumbing code based on the 2012 Uniform Plumbing
Code, adding a new appendix for tiny house building standards, and transitioning
the County from requiring separate construction permits to a single-permit system.
Reference: Comm. 989
Intr. by: Ms. Lee Loy (B/R)
Approve: PWMTC-23
Comm. 989.5: From Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated July 14, 2020, transmitting
proposed amendments to Bill 179 relating to air conditioning systems and
exemptions to the permit requirement for building work relating to repairs.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
; and
Comm. 989.6: From Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated July 14, 2020, transmitting
proposed amendments to Bill 179 by correcting a reference to the Uniform
Plumbing Code.
; and
Comm. 989.7: From Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated July 14, 2020, transmitting
proposed amendments to Bill 179 relating to requirements for single-story and
two-story structures.
; and
Comm. 989.8: From Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated July 14, 2020, transmitting
proposed amendments to Bill 179 relating to emergency work.
(Note: Comm. Nos. 989.27 and 989.29, from Council Member
Valerie T. Poindexter transmitting proposed amendments to Bill 179, were
circulated.)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to pass Bill 179 on first reading and
adopt Public Works and Mass Transit Committee Report
Number 23. Seconded by Ms. Villegas.
Okay, Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead. And let me just check with Council members to
make sure you have Communications 989.5 and .6, .7
MS. LEE LOY: Seven and eight were on your board. So Communication 989.5
and .6, .7 and .8 should be on your boards.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, and then there's also 989.27 from Ms. Poindexter.
That's all the ones I have.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Lee Loy moved to amend Bill 179 with the contents of
Communication 989.5. Seconded by Mr. Richards.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Chair, thank you. This one is related to air conditioning. This
emerged, I think, the day we had Bill 179 at Committee it raised a lot of issues
related to air conditioning systems. So what Communication 989.5 does is
provide a bright line of understanding as to when air conditions are exempt, and
what type of air conditioning systems are exempt, in addition to providing another
bright line as it related to air conditioning for residential units, window mounted
and that do not impair emergency egress. That's what Communication 989.5
does.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, got it. Just to let you know, we have Neal Tanaka
and Robyn here in Kona.
MS. LEE LOY: And Chair, I forgot to also mention Communication 989.5 also
raises the repair costs. Prior to this it was at$4,000 and we had seen some
comments relating to raising that threshold. So in addition to the air conditioning
units, we also are looking at raising the costs associated to repairs.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay. We see that. Council Members, do you have any
questions or comments, or would you like to hear anything from the department
on this?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'd like to hear why this a/c permit problem
came up. How it came up, and how this was missed in the beginning from the
Building department.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, do you want to address his question? Just state
your name and you can go ahead.
(Note: At this time, Acting Building Division Chief Robyn Matsumoto
and Deputy Building Division Chief Neal Tanaka came forward to address
the members of the Committee.)
MR. TANAKA: Good afternoon, Council Members. Neal Tanaka, Deputy
Building Chief. Matt, can you please repeat the question? I didn't understand.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. Hi Neal. How are you doing?
MR. TANAKA: Good.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Can you just kind of explain to us the
process of what happened with the a/c permitting question, the post that went out
from DPW (Department of Public Works)that got about 850 shares online, and
pissed off the entire island if not other portions of the State? Just so we can wrap
our heads around what happened. You know, how it was brought up and what
we're going to do to fix it. Because I'm glad that we have a fix, I'm just trying to
figure out what happened there.
MR. TANAKA: Sure. This was brought up from a complaint from a contractor
who helped us develop the IECC (International Energy Conservation Code)
pathway for permitting a/c's in existing homes. The complaint was that there are
other contractors out in the field making statements to the public that air
conditioning systems did not require permits. That the intent was, to be specific
with regards to switch with some more permanent type air conditioning, central or
otherwise. Currently, in our current Code as it is written, when we adopted the
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
2006 IECC in 2009, any exemptions for portable a/c's or window units, were
eliminated from the Code.
So our press release was an effort to address that permits are required for air
conditioning. I think our intent was more so for compliance with energy
conservation, as well as our concerns more importantly for egress with windows.
Emergency egress with windows set up that are required in some sleeping units.
So this amendment then attempts to address that, to be more clear. Although we
do have a concern with regards to window units going into bedrooms where only
one window is the emergency egress. There are solutions for air conditioning,
portable or otherwise.
Just to explain that a little bit, our concern is that generally if a window unit was
supposed to go into a window where emergency egress is required, there's a fire
outside your bedroom door and that egress that window is your only type of
egress and it's blocked because of a window unit, a child or an elderly kupuna
would not be able to exit that window. So generally with a permit allowing us to
review that, we'd be able to tell you as an applicant that would not be allowed.
Or just to make the applicant mindful that is not the Code for safety.
But that's where this amendment—we brought in the amendment to say that yes,
air conditioning units, permanent—permanent air conditioning units, also known
as air systems, and/or central require a permit. Then we made the exemptions for
window units as long as they are not affecting the emergency egress. And
portable units are exempt from that for residential applications.
Did I answer your question, Matt?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That was a very good explanation. Thank
you, Neal. And who brought it up? Who brought it to our attention?
MR. TANAKA: That was a contractor that brought it up. I was indicating that
other contractors were telling the public that air conditioning did not require
permits.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you, Neal. Appreciate it.
MR. TAKANA: Yep.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Is that it, Matt? Matt, do you yield?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes. I yield, Chair. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you. Any other comments from Hilo? Or
questions on the amendment?
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. RICHARDS: Chair, Richards.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you. This was one of the concerns that we brought
forth. So I appreciate this amendment, because this is fixing something that came
to light I think this we discussed this in Committee quite a few months ago. But
this does fix the concern coming forward. So I appreciate that and I'm definitely
supporting the amendment. I yield.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you. Any other comments? Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Yes. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Tanaka and
Ms. Matsumoto, for being here. I just want to echo what—the thanks that are
being expressed right now. And for me, I think you're reaching out the very next
day to my office to get my thoughts and finding out that there were a lot of
concerns, that I would say raised from people in my district about this, and both
of you promised that you folks would look into it and fix it and as much as
possible make the agenda deadline. And I'm very grateful for your hard work in
getting this done on time so that we could resolve this misunderstanding. Thank
you very much, for your hard work. Mahalo.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you. Any other comments?
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, Karen?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, I just wanted to add my two cents to all of this too. I mean,
it's kind ofI don't know if ironic would be the right word, but maybe about two
months before all of this happened, you know, this thing on social media and
things in the newspaper, Ms. Lee Loy came to me and she was telling me about a
potential problem with air conditioning. So maybe she heard it from a constituent
or something, but this was before the press release, and well before it. You know,
and she was explaining how she thought this could potentially become a problem.
We didn't know it was going to actually become a problem until after that press
release.
But you know, I just wanted to recognize her for seeing that in advance and
coming up with that so-called "cool" amendment to this Code. But with regard to
what Mr. Tanaka said and his concerns, you know, they're valid concerns of
course, but at some point the County cannot be all things to all people and we've
got to take our hands off already. I mean when people are in their homes, you
know, of course, you know, they can't do structural changes, but something like
this, really, I'm you know, if there's a potential for harm, I guess, if there is a
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
fire outside the one door, but you know, we just can't protect everything. So I
think this is a really good amendment and I fully support it. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you. Any other comments? Okay, hearing
none, let's take a vote on Communication 989.5 which would amend Bill 179.
All in favor,please say "aye.
Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 179 with the contents of
to Amend: Comm. 989.5 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Acting
Chair Eoff—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries.
MS. LEE LOY: Chair?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Ms. Lee Loy.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Lee Loy moved to amend Bill 179 with the contents of
Comm. 989.6. Seconded by Mr. Richards.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Go ahead, Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. This one actually came from Leslie Chow in
our Legislative Research Branch. This is a typo, where we identified the incorrect
date of the Uniform Plumbing Code, so we actually just corrected it to make
consistent throughout the entire document. I do ask for your support.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you. Any questions on this
Communication 989.6, Council Members? Hearing none, all in favor of
Communication 989.6,please say "aye."
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 179 with the contents of
to Amend: Comm. 989.6 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Acting
Chair Eoff—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Moving on
MS. LEE LOY: Chair?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Go ahead.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Lee Loy moved to amend Bill 179 with the contents of
Communication 989.7. Seconded by Ms. David.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, so go ahead on Communication 989.7.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, thank you, Chair. This particular amendment actually
helps align the language as it relates to Hawaii Revised Statutes (HRS) and make
itor actually make it consistent with its reflection within our HRS, and then
adding language as it relates to single-story and two-story structures for
residential occupancy; and again keeping it consistent with Hawaii Revised
Statutes, Section 464-13(b). And again,just technical revisions.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: I see. Thank you. Does anyone have any questions on
this amendment, or concerns, comments? Hearing none, all in favor, please say
LC "
aye.
Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 179 with the contents of
to Amend: Comm. 989.7 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Acting
Chair Eoff—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries. Communication 989.7 is approved.
Ms. Lee Loy.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Lee Loy moved to amend Bill 179 with the contents
of Communication 989.8. Seconded by Mr. Richards.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. This one is a little different, and perhaps
Robyn or Mr. Tanaka can help me with this one. What happens is in the event of
an emergency, emergency work is done. And you know, everybody's just kind of
scrambling to get the emergency repair done. What this does is offers the
department an opportunity to have a one-time emergency inspection to be done to
ensure that the immediate threat to public health, safety, and life has been
remedied. And then also offer them there's still the option to go ahead and pull
and emergency permit, and then inspect that work once it's complete.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you. Any questions or comments?
MR. RICHARDS: Chair?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: I think I'm posing this question probably to Neal or Robyn. I
remember back in 2006 when we had the big earthquake and there was a lot of
very rapid, very quick inspecting going on. Is this giving that the authority?
Because I think at that time it was just an emergency declaration. Is the intent
that this is going to cover? I guess that's for either Neal or Robyn.
MR. TANAKA: Aloha Tim. In 2006, those rapid inspections were essentially
emergency response related. Absolutely, a declaration through Mayor and
Governor, I believe, and the team went out to assess the damage primarily. Not
necessarily make calls on whether of life or safety at that point, but to assess the
damage.
Subsequently we have received some level of training to further assess life and
safety. However, this amendment does that address that specifically. This
amendment is more so—and Ms. Lee Loy, you said the option to get a permit for
emergency work. It's not the option. If there is emergency work that needs to be
done, we're allowing 14 days per the written Code, for the applicant to come in
for an emergency permit of which we would review and then be able to inspect on
a regular construction schedule as listed in our article, I believe eight. So no,
Tim. This is actually just in general emergency work. Whether it ranges from
say hurricane damage or some unknown emergency that's just uncontrolled by the
owner of the property. If you have a live wire due to the emergency, an electrical
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
contractor will fix that, remedy it, and then allow my inspection staff to go there
one time, check it out, and then subsequent permit would be pulled to get
inspected in the normal process.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, okay. So I'm understanding this, then, that if there's a
major problem you can fix it and then let the paperwork catch up afterwards.
MR. TANAKA: Right.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Alright. Thanks, I yield.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Any other comments?
MR. CHUNG: Madam Chairman?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Can I request that both Neal and Robyn be allowed to speak
without their masks, if that's okay? I could barely hear Neal. I think I got the gist
of what he was saying, but you know, hereafter.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay.
MR. CHUNG: Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: They will. Okay, are we ready to vote on this
communication? All in favor of Communication 989.8,please say "aye."
Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 179 with the contents of
to Amend: Comm. 989.7 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Richards, Villegas, and Acting
Chair Eoff—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries. I think that's all of Ms. Lee Loy's
amendments. And now we have another one. Does everybody have
Communication 989.27? Ms. Poindexter.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Poindexter moved to amend Bill 179 with the contents
of Communication 989.27. Seconded by Ms. David
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: So like the air conditioning issue raised a lot of questions,
so did Appendix L. So after our meeting, I did go and speak with several
traditional home builders, two out in my community, spoke with a couple on the
east side, spoke with some draft people, spoke with Bill McCowatt who I worked
with on some other issues in the Code.
So hearing the conversation that we had at Committee that everybody said that we
need options, and Appendix L was there already. So I think the concern that I
was hearing even up until just now getting text from one traditional homebuilder
that I can't address right now because we're in the meeting. But I can tell you
that traditional homebuilder had nothing to do with Carpenter's Union, because I
also was getting all this craziness between HPM and carpenters, and I told both of
them my loyalties are not to you. My loyalties are to the people, and to the people
I represent.
So I'm not talkingI mean, I've given them some time to talk with each of them
and all, but most of the concerns are coming from our traditional homebuilders
and some concerns are drafts people and other people in the industry saying they
have not had enough time. I mean, at some point I'm going to ask for a
postponement, because we've got to look at what dates do we have to get this
through. Because I'm getting texts and requests to have a meeting, even if it's a
Zoom meeting, with Neal and Robyn so that you can hear their concerns, their
own concerns. Don't think it's coming from—don't tie it to anybody else. But
they're real concerns.
And part of it and the reason why they were concerned with Appendix L, because
a lot of them want to just take it out. But what are the issues? What is the root
cause of your concern? Well, it's because, you know, we've made new
provisions for that Appendix, right? Throughout that, we had made new
provisions. So that's how this all came about.
And I've just got to thank Leslie Chow publicly because I was like—still now I
have a lot of paperwork all over and notes from everybody. On my computer,
written wherever. And I needed help getting it into this form and all, so I just
want to shout out to Leslie and all she's done for Bill 179. And you, Robyn and
Neal, you know, the three of you working together to get this done.
So I just ask that we look at this. I gaveRobyn, you had a chance to give me, I
think it was three or four questions and I responded. I'm going to ask for a
postponement on Bill 179 if we have time. When is the drop-dead timeline?
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MS. MATSUMOTO: Good afternoon, name is Robyn Matsumoto, Acting
Building Chief. For the Electrical Code and the Plumbing Code the deadline was
August 12.
MS. POINDEXTER: So August 12''. So Electrical and Plumbing?
MS. MATSUMOTO: Correct.
MS. POINDEXTER: But that goes along
MS. MATSUMOTO: But that's for the State one that's included in this Bill 179.
MS. POINDEXTER: Right. But then (Appendix) L is included in it. So—okay,
so I'm going to push forward to get these amendments done because I know that
later on you had suggested waiting on Exhibit(sic) L, because it may be
discussed. A possibility that would be towards November.
MS. MATSUMOTO: Correct. The Building Codes are due in November.
MS. POINDEXTER: It is due in—okay. So I'm going to start addressing this
now, because the people concerned about it can at least get some relief to know
that we're working on Appendix L and that we can continue to work on it even
after these amendments. Continue to work on it when we come to November, is
that correct?
MS. MATSUMOTO: That's correct.
MS. POINDEXTER: So that can be done, right? It can be continued to be
worked on.
MS. MATSUMOTO: We only have like one additional Council meeting included
in our schedule in order to get it approved before the August 12 deadline,
including the Mayor's signature.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, so then if this is postponed today, it will still be safe
do you think to get to that date?
MS. MATSUMOTO: Yeah, I believe so.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. So that's good to know, because I really think we
owe it to these traditional homebuilders because they're feeling that we're
favoring, you know, the FBH (Factory-Built Housing) homebuilders versus the
traditional homebuilders because if they have to get inspected, why not, you
know—and I talked to one person who said, well, you know, the FBH, they're
going to be building the same homes over and over and over and over, so why not
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
just let it go, right? And I said well, my husband was building homes, the same
units, over and over and over, but had to get inspected. And then not every unit
will get—pass inspection. There are certain things that have to be fixed. I
thinkI understand where the traditional home builders are coming from,
because once the walls get closed you don't know what's behind there. Did
things get chopped or things bold that the electrical something—some kind of
safety issue down the road that may happen with a fire hazard or whatever.
So there's so much to hear from them, and it's just so unfair that they had such a
small window of opportunity to respond and then the FBH people or who was
doing it told me that they were working with DPW for two years on this portion.
So then I said, then you guys have the upper hand. And that to me is again, to me
a fairness issue. So all I ask, I'm going to ask—I'll wait to hear from other
Council members before I ask for a postponement so that we can get together and
see what we can compromise. And I think—and that's, you know, everybody's
got to compromise. I'm not going to pull Appendix L like I said I was, because
after much thought and then talking to the traditional homebuilders,
understanding what the root cause was, and the reason why they were against it.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Excuse me, Ms. Poindexter?
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Just on those dates, I think Robyn said we need to have
this adopted by this whole bill.
MS. POINDEXTER: I thought it was the 12'', but doesn't it allow for an extra
Council?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: No, we wouldn't be able to postpone it and still meet this
deadline, is what I'm saying.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, so what did you mean by you said we would have
one more extra Council?
MS. MATSUMOTO: I believe that there was one more, but with the August 12'h
that doesn't include an extra Council. I thought it was the August 20''. I'd have
to go back and check.
MS. POINDEXTER: So are we for sure? August 12'h or August 20''? Oh, that
one says amend by 8/21. That's the Electrical Code and Plumbing Code. So can
we figure out what is the correct date? Because then we'd have that one extra
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Because she—even if it's the 20'h or 21", we have
another Council meeting on the 19''. But if we were to postpone one meeting,
then the last reading would be the 19''.
MS. POINDEXTER: And that's when it would pass the
ACTING CHR. EOFF: And then we need time for the Mayor to sign it.
MS. MATSUMOTO: Is there any possibility we could take a break and we could
go back to our office and verify the dates?
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, I guess. I guess and then maybe
ACTING CHR. EOFF: We could. Mr. Clerk, were the dates for the Council
meetings stated correctly?
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, we have a meeting scheduled for the 5h. We also have
one scheduled for the 19''. But I would caution if there is a date of 8/21, which is
a holiday actually. So I don't know that might not matter for National approval
for statutory provisions. But I would caution that using the 19'h as a potential
meeting date, if this Council is concerned about approving certain codes by the
21", that's really close to get it to the Mayor. And really, even without that, if
you're looking at the 5 h I don't even know if the 5h, it doesn't provide, and
perhaps all of the (counting) it barely gives the Mayor the 10 calendar days that
the Mayor is allotted to review and approve things and I don't want to make any
assumptions. I'm just saying the 19'h isI don't know if that's—while
technically available, it's that's a tight window.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Well I think—are you folks checking the date right now?
MS. MATSUMOTO: Yeah, the date is August 21. I guess as Jon put it, it's still
really close.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Yeah, so the way I think for us to actually accomplish
your goal would be that we would need to pass this today to second reading and
that would be the final reading and that would be the final reading on the 19''. I
mean, on the 5h, I'm sorry. August 5h.
MS. POINDEXTER: Madam Chair, do I have the floor? Okay, so with that said,
then I'm going to move forward and ask for us to support this. Because if I need
to make any changes to this, you know, we have that one more meeting. And in
the meantime, I'm going to try and rush a meeting because I know someone from
a drafting company on the east side who's wanting to help get some people
together as well. And of course some people on the west side too (inaudible).
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
ACTING CHR. EOFF: So I would suggest that we do work on your amendment
today and try and understand it and get feedback and then see how we can keep
moving this along.
MS. MATSUMOTO: Thank you.
MS. POINDEXTER: So I'd just like to ask Robyn and NealI mean, Robyn, I
answered some of your questions. I don't know what you'd want to say to that.
MS. MATSUMOTO: So regarding the issue with removing the electrical and
plumbing certifications, this makes it difficult for us for, you know, if units come
into the County how would we verify it, as well as, you know, you can't go to
other jurisdictions and do inspections there if we don't have any control in that
area. So for us it's really difficult to kind of wrap our hands around how we were
going to execute it in that fashion.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. That portion, when you're saying, "how we're going
to execute it,"that portion, we still have time till November to deal with that
further, correct?
MS. MATSUMOTO: Correct. I mean, we have until whenever we decide to
finally give up the issue, whether it's November or the next meeting.
MS. POINDEXTER: Right, right. But we still
MS. MATSUMOTO: It doesn't have to be tied to
MS. POINDEXTER: So that can be addresses. Because for my concern, when
we talk about the fairness and the inspections, and even when they're being
outsources to come here, and if they don't have to get inspected, I don't trust that
things coming from the outside. I remember when, in Hapuna when my husband
was building homes there, and they outsourced people from Canada that came. It
would the framing would not pass inspection. And it was like, thank God it
wasn't FBH, you know, where it would all be hidden and stuff, that passed
automatically. So that's the concern for a lot of the traditional home builders.
Even for people who are doing drafting and stuff. They can explain to you what
their concerns are. I think you heard some, but there are people that are, of
course, not able to be here today to express it. I spoke to some last night.
Yeah, I'm going to keep pushing ahead with this.
MS. MATSUMOTO: Well just to, you know, the idea was that if it was to be
constructed in another location, we would have that third-party certification
inspection done, and you know, they would follow the national requirements if
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
done within the United States and we haven't even considered what would happen
if it actually came from China.
MS. POINDEXTER: Right. So there's like the things that I crossed out, you
know, things like on 101.6, I think we were talking about 101.6(b)(1), "All
electrical and plumbing work to be performed at the factory outside of this state
must be accomplished: (1) By licensed electricians or plumbers, respectively, of
the county in which the factory is located, if the manufacturer does not submit a
quality control manual which is approved by the building official;" So if the
manufacturer has a quality control manual then it exempts them from just what
had been said, "by licensed electrician." You know, so there's some problems in
the language. Go ahead, Neal.
MR. TANAKA: I'm sorry, Val. The second provision talks about if they do
provide the quality control manual.
MS. POINDEXTER: Right.
MR. TANAKA: That there still is a licensed supervising electrician and master
plumber responsible for that.
MS. POINDEXTER: So why do they put(1)then? Do you understand where the
confusion too with the traditional homebuilders and all, that a lot of things that
were written in here, new provisions put into Bill 179 favored FBH over the
traditional homebuilder. So I'm going to open it up to the rest of the Council
members to hear what they say, because there's much more and I think I'll take
all day if not and argue my point. And I think I just need to hear from the other
Council members. So I'll yield at this time, Chair. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you.
MR. CHUNG: Madam Chair?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: You're coming in really clear, but next time Val talks, if she could
take off her mask too. It came out quite muffled at times and you know, we want
to be able to hear what she's saying. That's all. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay. Alright, thank you. So Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, I yield. I want to hear from the rest of the Council
members.
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ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay. Does anybody else have a question about this
amendment, or would you like to speak, Mr. Tanaka? Was that Ms. Lee Loy?
MS. LEE LOY: I do, but I've had a lot of time to digest this amendment. I
appreciate Ms. Poindexter walking away from gutting Appendix L from Bill 179.
If we did that, factory built would be completely unregulated. There would be no
provisions for inspections, no provisions for electrical or plumbing work. It
would be just completely unregulated.
So I actually wanted to hear from Ms. Poindexter her explanation of the various
sections that she's adding in, and I don't know how everyone else feels, but
everyone's looking at me over here and I don't think it's fair for me to explain the
amendment that you put forward.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Go ahead, Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: So it's your amendment, and I've got people looking at me
going, "What are they talking about?" So maybe if you took some time to
MS. POINDEXTER: Everybody knows what I'm talking about. Okay
MS. LEE LOY: Just explain—like explain the different—
MS.
ifferentMS. POINDEXTER: (inaudible)
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Wait a minute. Ms. Poindexter, wait one second.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Are you finished, Ms. Lee Loy?
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, we just I want to understand the thought process behind
it. Because I too have heard a lot of misinformation or inaccurate assertions about
the process, especially as it relates to factory built. I've taken the time to take a
deep dive into these codes and have put in a lot of my own research, so I
understand it in a specific fashion. So I just want to hear from you, Val, like the
understanding of it.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you.
MS. POINDEXTER: Chair, can I ?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Are you finished, Ms. Lee Loy?
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MS. LEE LOY: Yes, Chair. I yield.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, so before I go to Ms. Poindexter, what I think I'm
hearing would probably be a useful way to approach this amendment since we
need to deal with it today, if you could take us step by step. First of all yourI
think we understand your purpose and your thinking, but maybe if you take
maybe one portion at a time, and then maybe we can have a little bit of back and
forth on that particular section so we get it clear before we move to the next one.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, so let's go to 101.3, Building permit required. So
there is no permit requirement for manufacturing of the FBH, only for the
installation. So the traditional home builders are required to obtain a separate
building permit when they construct any building or structure. So that was one of
the concerns from one of my Hamakua people. So that's why that section is
revised.
MR. CHUNG: Val?
MS. POINDEXTER: Yes?
MR. CHUNG: I'm so sorry. Where are you talking about right now? You lost
me.
MS. POINDEXTER: On page three, where it says, Appendix "L101.3 Building
permit required."
MR. CHUNG: Okay, go ahead.
MS. POINDEXTER: So I just explained that portion on why we revised it. So
are there any questions on the reason that one is in that language? Okay, I'll go to
the next one.
So the 101.6, when we look at that whole electrical, plumbing. When I spoke
with one of the builders who was here today, it's removed because there's an
uncertainty of licensing requirements and the process that other counties, states,
and even with countries like China bringing in stuff in. So we're talking about—
I'm
boutI'm concerned about already opening the door for outsourcing. And that coupled
with not having the inspections, I mean I kind of worry about that. So that's why
that one named 101.6, on Performance of plumbing and electrical work.
When we go to 101.7, you know once the authority approves that application for
the preapproval of a model plan and assigns a model number, then the
manufacturing of the FBH can begin without complying with contractor licensing
laws. So that was part of the concern. So that's why that other language is in
there, for each application for a permit. Yeah, right there, "All manufacturing
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work, including, electrical, and plumbing, shall be inspected in the factory by the
building official at all times." And I think, Robyn, you were concerned about
saying "at all times." I was willing to take out"at all times" and put a period
there. So that would help, correct?
MS. MATSUMOTO: Right, yes. It would be consistent with the onsite building.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, so I can take out"at all times,"but I think I may
have to have this in written and I've got to start working on it right now. So you
know, I want to take Robyn's recommendation right now, and she suggested "at
all times,"taking "at all times" out.
So, well maybe even before I start working on that I'll go through this and we'll
just then listen to the Council members and if we keep moving in that direction,
I'll take it out.
So the last one, where is it? Gosh, the L101.9 that's in there, you know, some of
them wanted me to take that out, but I'm not.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: 101.8.
MS. POINDEXTER: "Shall be governed by the provisions of the County and
State traffic codes." But I think that was there already. Just the numbering had
changed.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: You skipped 101.8.
MS. POINDEXTER: We just did 101 pointoh, 101 pointoh, I did
"Manufacturer's label," 101.8, is just that on the building official's inspection
stamp. It's about the stamp, having that secured on there instead of a third party.
So, okay, I'd like to just hear from other Council Members. Thank you, Madam
Chair.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay. Ms. Poindexter, sorry. I'm not trying to indulge
in the conversation too much, but at the very beginning, 5-3-2, Factory-built
housing, and you have the underlined(a), (1), (2) and (3).
MS. POINDEXTER: Oh yeah. Okay.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: We didn't discuss that, but I think that is kind of is the
overview of the whole purpose of what you're trying to do.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yes. That is the overview and I did get help with that.
Thank you.
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ACTING CHR. EOFF: So do you want to explain that?
MS. POINDEXTER: Oh, okay. So adapting new chapters, building code,
electrical code, energy code and plumbing code, because it says, "An Ordinance
Establishing a County . . . " is that where you want me to go to explain the
summary?
MR. CHUNG: Where are we?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: No, I was talking about on page two.
MS. POINDEXTER: Oh,page two. I'm sorry.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: At the top, Section 5-3-2. It's underlined and then there's
a whole section of underlined text, which
MS. POINDEXTER: Oh, factory-built housing. Right. So, "No person shall
perform any of the following work or cause or permit the same to be done on any
factory-built housing in the County, without first obtaining a permit for this work
from the authority having jurisdiction: (1) Manufacture, install, erect, construct,
enlarge, alter . . . " I mean, do you want me to read the whole thing to you? But
that's self-explanatory.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: And that is the purpose of this whole amendment, correct.
MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah. And I think something's coming forward to address
that as well from I think what Matt is doing something too. I just received
something, but he told me it's not numbered.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay. Well thank you, Ms. Poindexter. I would like to
give the department a chance to respond as we've gone through this, if there's
something that you thinkI mean, we know that's you would like to change that
once section to just put a period without, yeah, take out"at all times" and have a
period. But is there anything else that is an issue that you'd like to bring to our
attention? Concern?
MS. MATSUMOTO: Good afternoon, Robyn Matsumoto, Acting Building
Chief. I appreciate Val trying to make these changes. The difficulty for us is that
it wasn't the focus of this entire bill. And like we said, right, that was in from a
long time ago. From the last time we amended our Building Code. We don't
have any problem with looking at it again. But it's just the idea of trying to get
this particular bill through at this time so that we can not be defacto for our
electrical and our plumbing. I don't know what other options we have with this in
order—you know, if our word is enough to say that we're going to continue to
work on it together even after this, I don't know if acceptable enough.
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ACTING CHR. EOFF: Well we react because, you know, it came out and to the
attention of so many people. The discussion became one that sort of needed to be
addressed, so Ms. Poindexter is attempting to, understanding that you'll be doing
more between now and December. But I guess my question and maybe other
Council members want to know this too, is are there any serious objections to this
amendment? Something that we maybe don't understand or see?
MR. TANAKA: This is Neal Tanaka, Active Deputy Building Chief. Val, thank
you for putting this forward. I think for us, we are supportive of the fact that
having factory-built in our County get permits so that we can inspect. What this
does though, and our challenge would be for anything else that does come not
from this County which isn't our jurisdiction, the current language that's in there
does have some safeguards and guardrails for those types of projects, and what's
being proposed takes those away. Right, your concern for safety and life, we
share that with you, primarily with the electrical and plumbing licensures and
those requirements.
We don't have any jurisdiction outside of the County, so having the ability to
regulate them via certified third-party inspection,whether it's IECC or IAS
(International Accreditation Service) or some other some other certified body, that
we are enforcing too, it gives us the encouragement that it is something that we
can enforce.
So I don't know about that Hapuna project and some Canadian third parry. I
don't know about that. But this gives us the opportunity to qualify those that are
inspected.
MS. POINDEXTER: Since Neal is addressing me, can I respond?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Yeah, I want toI'm trying to help us figure out if
there's a way to incorporate some of your concerns but still address the concerns
that the department has raised as well. Because I don't think you intended to
inhibit the inspection.
MS. POINDEXTER: Right. You know, isn't the—what would that part is
taken out, what would fall into place that? Would that be whatever is would be
complying with the State of Hawaii Contracting and Licensing regulations?
What does that fall back to?
MR. TANAKA: So of course anything that's built in the State of Hawaii would
be required to follow State of Hawaii Contracting Law. That's why requiring a
building permit, requiring contractors to be present to do that work
MS. POINDEXTER: So if that is taken out, where does it revert back to?
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. TANAKA: Oh, I'm not proposing to take that out because it's already
existing language.
MS. POINDEXTER: No, on the ones
MR. TANAKA: 101.6 Performance of plumbing and electrical work specifically
says, "All electrical and plumbing work performed within this state shall comply
with State of Hawaii contracting and licensing laws and regulations." Which
we're good with, which is existing language.
MS. POINDEXTER: Right.
MR. TANAKA: The proposed language, and I'm sorry to jump back and forth
Council Members, but the proposed language to require a building permit in the
County would be subject to State law. So if you do get a building permit, you do
need to be a licensed contractor to pull that permit and build it. So we are
supportive of that. When it's out of state, we don't have any jurisdiction on
requiring them to get a building permit so that we can inspect within their area.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, so would be okay if I would cross off, "if the
manufacturer does not submit a quality control manual which is approved by the
building official." Would you allow me to put"by a licensed electricians and
plumbers respectively of the County in which the factory is located."
MR. TANAKA: I think a quality control manual is imperative also when it
comes to factory-built housing. I think it helps us qualify that product.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, so we should say, "with"not"if." Then "with the
manufacturer submitting,"not"does not," "with the manufacturer submitting a
quality control manual which is approved by the building official." Because if
you put"if," if you leave that sentence in, it writes out"by licensed electricians
and plumbers respectively of the County in which the factory is located." So if
we put"where the factory is located," along with the whatever, how we want to
word it, "the manufacturer submitting a quality control manual which is approved
by the building official." Or"including the manufacturer submitting a quality
control manual." However you want to—how would you suggest we reword
that?
MR. TANAKA: Yeah, I think that would be okay.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, so I can work on that amendment along with the "at
all times" in that next section. Would that be okay with you? Remember too, I
mean we're still going to be able to work on this sometime in November to
include other stuff. Or, you know, and that would give more of the traditional
builders more time to chime in more on this, but at least this amendment will give
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
them some hope in that we're moving in a direction that is fair to them as well,
since they did not have the upper hand of working with you for the past two years.
MR. TANAKA: Yeah, so just to speak to that a little bit here. HPM, we have
been working with HPM for the past two years, within the bounds of the existing
language. It's not like we developed new language for this bill.
MS. POINDEXTER: But you have new provisions in the bill.
MR. TANAKA: Not specific to Appendix L. Appendix L is written word for
word.
MS. POINDEXTER: I can show you where. I have them in a chart that we
worked on, and
MR. TANAKA: Please, absolutely.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Can I make a suggestion, Ms. Poindexter? I'm not sure if
this would work, but since you're kind of getting more understanding of each
other's language, would we want to take a recess or move on? To put this on the
table and move on to other items while you work with them to look over a way a
sentence could be restructured to possibly get closer to an acceptable amendment.
Mr. Clerk? You give us the proper motion.
MR. HENRICKS: You can only table a main motion, so you'd be tabling the
question on Bill 179. The motion would be to lay the motion to approve Bill 179
at first reading on the table.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, till maybe the end of the agenda?
MR. HENRICKS: It's just on the table until you take if off.
Motion to Table: Ms. Poindexter moved to table Bill 179. Seconded
by Ms. David.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you folks. I think that would be the most
effective way right now.
MR. HENRICKS: Madam Chair, you have not yet called the vote on the motion
to lay on the table.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: All in favor of laying this on the table for a little bit,
please say "aye."
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Vote on Motion The motion to table Bill 179 was carried by the following
to Table: voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, and
Acting Chair Eoff—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Villegas — 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, so you guys take a break, and Council Members,
we have a few more items that I think we could go through while we're waiting.
Not too many left, but then we may have to take a recess for a little bit.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Chair?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Hello Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This is Matt. I was looking over the bill in
front of us, and I do have to say that I think what Val is trying to do is valiant. I
just didn't realize that's like the first three letters of her name.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, we took that off the table for right now, so we're
not going to discuss the bill.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No, no. I'm just giving my comments. I
appreciate what she's trying to do.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Yeah, thank you. And hopefully we can solve something
here.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So I'm going to bringing to the table an
amendment that I think would be helpful. Coming from the field and being a
worker in the field, and having called
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, can you hold off on discussing
your proposal until we come back and lay this back on the table?
MR. HENRICKS: Just for clarity, Bill 179 has been laid on the table as a whole
for now.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Oh, I'm sorry.
MR. HENRICKS: That's alright. I don't think he understood that.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No, I did not.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: We're going to move on to another few items on the
agenda while we're waiting for Ms. Poindexter to come back.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Oh, okay. Excuse me. Never mind.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you. And you know, this isn't going to take
too long, so I'll have to see what happens after that. But Mr. Clerk, let's try
Bill 181.
Bill 181: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 20-45, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING
BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDING
JUNE 30, 2021
Appropriates revenues in the Recreation Miscellaneous Contributions account
($2,000); and appropriates the same to the United States Tennis Association
Facility Recovery Grant—Private account to be used toward cleaning and
sanitation expenses in preparation for the reopening of the Ho`olulu Complex
tennis courts.
Reference: Comm. 1001
Intr. by: Ms. David (B/R)
Waived: FC
Vote on Bill 181: Ms. David moved to pass Bill 181 on first reading.
(Approved) Seconded by Ms. Villegas and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Richards, Villegas, and
Acting Chair Eoff—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Poindexter— 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: And we have Order of the Day, Second or Final Reading,
Bill 177.
ORDER OF Acting Chair Eoff directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
THE DAY: Order of the Day (Second or Final Reading).
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Bill 177: DESIGNATES TAX MAP KEY: 6-7-002:063 AS THE"SPENCER KALANI
SCHUTTE DISTRICT PARK"PURSUANT TO CHAPTER 15, ARTICLE 8,
SECTION 15-67 OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS
AMENDED); AMENDS SECTION 15-68.1 TO ADD THE"SPENCER KALANI
SCHUTTE DISTRICT PARK" TO THE PARKS AND RECREATIONAL
FACILITY SCHEDULE; AND AMENDS CHAPTER 14, ARTICLE 1,
SECTION 14-1, RELATING TO PROHIBITING THE POSSESSION OR
CONSUMPTION OF INTOXICATING LIQUORS AT ALL TIMES
Formally names the area currently known as the Waimea District Park, adds to the
facility schedule, and prohibits alcoholic beverages at all times.
Reference: Comm. 987
Intr. by: Mr. Richards
First Reading: July 8, 2020
Motion to Approve: Mr. Richards moved to pass Bill 177 on second and final
reading. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Go ahead, Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you. We had quite a robust conversation about this,
and Kalani Schutte's history, his influence, his impact on the County of Hawaii,
is well noted and has been represented well by much of our testimony and written.
This gives me great pleasure, to put this forth for our community and also for
Kalani Schutte. He was quite a man for those of you who met him. So this is
very fitting and very appropriate because it was his vision about moving forward.
And it was I think back in the 1990's they talked about the Waimea 2020 plan.
Here we are. It's appropriate that in this year we name this park after him. With
that, I'll ask for the continued support and I yield.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you. Any other comments? Hearing none,
all in favor say "aye."
Vote on Bill 177: The motion to pass Bill 177 on second and final reading
(Adopted) was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Richards, Villegas, and
Acting Chair Eoff—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Poindexter— 1.
Excused: None.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries. Bill 177 is approved. Thank you.
Moving to Reports.
REPORTS: Acting Chair Eoff directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
Reports.
FC-124 AUTHORIZES THE ACCEPTANCE OF A DONATION OF 3,500 SURGICAL
(Comm. 983): MASKS TO THE COUNTY OF HAWAII
Donated by Director General Michael Tseng of the Tapei Economic and Cultural
Office in Honolulu, valued at$525, to be used in the fight against COVID-19.
Vote on FC-124: Ms. David moved to adopt Finance Committee Report
(Adopted) Number 124. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and
carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Richards, Villegas, and
Acting Chair Eoff—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Poindexter— 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Motion carries. Okay Council Members. That was the
end of our agenda. Mr. Clerk, would we just want to take a recess now for a little
while?
MR. CHUNG: Madam Chairman?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: I'm just wondering if it would be worthwhile or efficient for us to
take the matter off the table so we can hear what Mr. Kaneali`i-KI einfelder's
proposal is, so we can digest that too, while we're thinking of other things.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, sounds like a good plan. I need a motion, right?
MR. HENRICKS: Yes, you do.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Vote on Motion Ms. David moved to remove Bill 179 from the table.
to Remove from Table: Seconded by Ms. Villegas and carried by the following
(Approved) voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Richards, Villegas, and
Acting Chair Eoff–8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Poindexter– 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, let's discuss your
proposed amendment.
MR. HENRICKS: Before youI think Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder will confirm
this. He doesn't have a proposed amendment prepared today. He wanted to—I
believe he was just going to make some discussion points about the bill.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, but I think, I was
MR. HENRICKS: Something was passed out. I believe it was a bit premature.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Did everybody get—
MR.
etMR. HENRICKS: And maybe they yeah.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: That's okay, the more clarity the better. But does
everybody have a copy?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I have a copy of the section that I'm going
to be working on an amendment for, for our next reading.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: For now, I'd just like to discuss it with the
Council, to have the discussion so people can digest it, and then we can work on it
for the next meeting.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay. We're on Section 5-3-1.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes, and there will be another exception as
well I'm going to ask for. The purpose of my amendment would be to remove
I'm sorry, I still have the floor unless you have something you need to say.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Point of Order: MS. LEE LOY: I do have a point of order. I just want to clarify with the Clerk.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Do you have to have the floor to call for a
point of order?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Go ahead, Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: A point of clarification, Clerk. I know we're in discussion, but I
am incredibly mindful that if what Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder is about to move in
will become a future amendment, are we in violation of discussing future policies
and in violation of the Sunshine Law.
MR. HENRICKS: I don't believe any motions are going to be made, and it's not
my place to render decisions on whether or not the Council is entering into
dangerous territories when it comes to the Sunshine Law. But I understand your
question, and I understand Mr. Kaneali`i-KI einfelder's purpose. The question is
there an ability to preview future policy making. I don't know. It depends on the
discussion. Bill 179 is on the floor. The entire bill is on the floor. In some ways,
the whole thing is open for discussion. But I understand what you're saying that
before there can be a vote or any real discreet discussion there should be
something that is presented in a communication format. So you know, it depends
on how it goes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So just to clarify, we as a Council are having
a discussion as a whole body on the record
MR. HENRICKS: Before you proceed, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, I'm sorry to
cut you off, but Ms. Lee Loy made a point of order, so it's in the Chair's duty
toI believe her point of order was asking—and she asked me, but it's more
appropriate for the Chair to make a determination whether or not
Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder is within the rules to continue, because it was a point of
order.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, and Ms. Lee Loy, would youI guess what I
would say, and you guys can correct me if you think this is wrong. But if we keep
the discussion to parts of Bill 179 and maybe Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder can let us
know where he's considering having some further discussion, I think we would be
okay. We're not bringing it up as a proposed amendment today. We're just
talking about Bill 179 and some of the aspects of it. I guess let's just go with
caution until the Clerk
MR. HENRICKS: I don't believe I'd be in a position to stop conversation. I'm
not counsel. I don't provide legal counsel to the Council.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Well maybe if
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. CHUNG: Karen?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Go ahead, Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, let me weigh in on this. Quite frankly, I don't see any
problem with this, and I think it's better we get everything, you know, out in the
open right now so we know what to expect. You know, as long as it's not
couched in terms of it being a proposed amendment, but you know he can kind of
just share his thoughts as to where he's going. And you know, he's distributed
some handouts to us. I quite frankly don't see any problem. I mean, it's an
interesting point that Ms. Lee Loy brought up.
I think the more salient issue will be this, which I also don't think should be a
problem. And as the Chair, I would say that there's no conflict. But we all know
that Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder is involved in installing photovoltaic systems. And
what he's going to be talking about has to do specifically with photovoltaic
systems. But at the same time, you know, I think in the spirit of trying to
encourage more participation on the part of the Council members, you know, I
don't see any conflict. He's actually an expert in the area. I mean more than
anybody else.
So I think that's probably a more salient issue in terms of procedure. But on both
fronts, I think we should just move forward so that we can get things going.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you for that. Because I think the more
information we all have, the better decisions we'll make here. So Mr. Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder with all that in mind, why don't you continue.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Before I say anything, so I don't
offend anyone or break any Sunshine Law, although we're all sitting at the same
table on camera having the discussion. Jon, what should I avoid in discussing, so
I'm aware?
MR. HENRICKS: I reallyI'm sorry, I can't help you with that. I don't know.
It's up to the Council to decide their level and I think you've heard from some of
the membership, including the Chair and the Vice Chair.
MR. CHUNG: Let me—Jon, let me just weigh in on that. Just give us your
thoughts. Just go as far as you want to go.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. I'm going to go ahead
and give you my thoughts. I'm just having a thought right now. Let's just say
that. In section 5-3-2 I believe, sorry, I gave my papers to everybody else, there's
a section where we talk about permits required. One of the permits required is
when you do a photovoltaic system. But there's also a section where it talks
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
about removing or replacing equipment. So under Section 5-3-1, Permit
Required, under(b), Solar photovoltaic systems, we require a permit currently for
the replacement of equipment and components like panels, inverters,
microinverters when they're going back in the same location and of the same
type. If you look at number(5), which is Solar water heating systems or
components, we do basically the same wording, but if you go a little bit further
into the Code, there's a permit exemption for solar hot water equipment when it's
reinstalled in the same place with the same equipment. I think it would be
beneficial to the industry, which is my thought, to remove the permit required for
replacement of a photovoltaic.
But in hindsight, thinking about it, I think it may be better to ask for an exception
to the permit required. So an exception of a permit for the replacement of a
photovoltaic equipment or component in the same location of the same type. I
think this removes a step, almost an unnecessary step, in some ways and helps
speed up work that needs to be repaired or fixed, similar to what we talked about
in an emergency situation.
So I'm just having that thought right now and I don't want to violate any
Sunshine Laws. But I think that would be a good option for the Council to review
at a later date. So just to put it out there so we can have the discussion. You
know, that's what we are doing, we are having a discussion. That is my thought.
And I look for any input on that or any dos or don'ts, but that's where I'm headed.
MR. CHUNG: Madam Chair?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: You know, I agree with that, that it's only a thought, right.
There's no specific proposal. Because that's something we really should look
into. I mean, we could also do it later, after this measure is passed. But these
photovoltaic systems and the building permit process that is related to it has been
problematic over the years. I've heard a lot of complaints from electricians in that
regard. This—not this, the thought is a reasonable thought I think, and I would
support it. And maybe if something could be drafted up right now, I mean, I be
okay with that. I cannot say, you know I'm still thinking about the Val one
MS. LEE LOY: Me too.
MR. CHUNG: But this one can kind of move on relatively painlessly, I think.
Because it doesn't deal with any structural stuff. And they already had the
building permits issued initially, I think. Okay, why don't we have our
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We have Gary and I know Gary has some
experience in the field with this kind of thing. What are your thoughts, Gary?
And then Neal and Robyn, if you have any comments, too.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Neal and Robyn are not here right now. They're in
conference.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: They're with Val? Okay.
(Note: At this time, Supervising Electrical Inspector Gary
Kaho`ohanohano came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: So I'm with the Building Division. Supervising
Electrical Inspector. I have some disagreements with that. And again, Matt, it
has to do with the safety of installing it correctly, again. Once you take if off, you
know bonding and grounding is required. And like back in the day, they used to
use this clip, which was the weave clip, you're aware of that, and once you use it,
you cannot reuse it again. You need to remove it and install a new clip. So those
are some of the things that we would be looking at when we do our electrical
inspection. That's really important. You get somebody up there on the roof, let's
say they're pau washing the roof, and it's not properly bonded and grounded, they
could seriously get hurt. And that's part of our job, to protect the public and the
contractors, to make sure that the do their due diligence to install it correctly.
Reinstalling it correctly.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It sounds like you're talking about a
microinverter, but I mean, we're talking about panels, we're talking about
inverters down below on the walls.
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: No, this is basically, we're talking only about the
solar module on the roof. If it gets removed, then we need to take a look at it.
Because the microinverter a lot of time is located on the rail, right? So they
would have to remove the panel, and reinstall the panel to remove the
microinverter, correct?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yep.
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: Yeah, and that's part of bonding and grounding. If
you don't do it correctly, use the manufacturer's components that go along with
the racking system, then we have a problem.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The language in the code says, "panels and
components." Which at that point you're listing anything and everything relating
to this whole photovoltaic job. But what I found interesting was in the same
aspect, plumbing doesn't have to comply with that. They can replace at will with
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
no permit. They're equipment's heavierI mean I have the bonding
requirements
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: It's only plumbing. There's no electrical involved
in
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, okay. But exempted, nonetheless.
Exempted from the permitting.
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: That, that—
MR.
hatMR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Not your forte. Okay, understood. And
then some of these microinverters too, I'm noticing that they have that integral
ground in them. They're not coming with an external ground.
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: You're correct, yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So that some of the systems that were in use
10 years ago, I mean you can't even really get that part anymore.
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: That's correct. So there's alternates. So like let's
say back in the day
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This is fun. Because usually you guys are
inspecting my work. Now we're actually having a different discussion.
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: Exactly. So it's like if they put a new component
in the system, it's even more that we would have to take a look at it, to make sure
that it's listed along with the product with the rail system.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And requirement by law or is this a
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: This is a Code issue.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: As an opinion? Like an opinion of the AHJ,
or this is a Code requirement?
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: No, this is a Code requirement. Bonding-250.
NEC 250 (National Electrical Code).
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And they say if there is a replacement of any
equipment, there's a section that says that?
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: Well, as far as like if you're removing, I mean,
you know, we're checking the bonding and grounding because you're removing
and reinstalling.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I guess I'm thinking about the homeowner
too, because now they have a broken piece of equipment. Say the central inverter
goes down. They have to call their contractor, get a replacement, get an electrical
permit to replace the inverter. And in the meantime, they're getting no solar
energy from the house.
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: You know, Matt
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This is why I'm asking.
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: It's, you know
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Because I have been in these circumstances.
MR. KAHO`OHANOHANO: It's more of a professional type of thing, where
you're going to get somebody, a licensed contractor hopefully reinstalling that
inverter and not having the homeowner do it. So and which would require a
County permit, yes.
MR. CHUNG: Madam Chair?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I yield for now. I'm going to work on
it.
MR. CHUNG: I still have the floor. I let you talk for me.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Thank you, Aaron.
MR. CHUNG: That's the only way I'm going to be able to continue talking that's
why.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay good, good. I yield from Aaron's
yield.
MR. CHUNG: I'm just wondering. Matt, are you going to be proposing an
amendment to hit the floor next time?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I may be thinking about that. As a general
thought. I don't want to violate any Sunshine Law, although I'm in front of the
entire Council. I'm still trying to wrap my head around that.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. CHUNG: We're just throwing out thoughts,because this is contained in the
body of the Code.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It is. I mean, right now we have the entire
MR. CHUNG: Right, we can discuss the entire Code.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's how I felt from the beginning, yes.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Mr. Chung?
MR. CHUNG: Yes?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Sorry to interrupt, but—
MR.
utMR. HENRICKS: Can I just real quick—we just need to take a quick recess,
which the Chair's going to ask for,just to do some technical things. But just for
clarity, the previous process, and it's not that important, but it wasn't Sunshine
Law matter. It's more a matter of parliamentary procedure. I should have spoke
more clearly. You know, as the Chair spoke, it's up to the Council to decide
whether or not there should be a discreet motion to have this discussion. If the
Council's comfortable, Ms. Lee Loy made a point of order, the Chair rules on it,
if Ms. Lee Loy disagreed should could have appealed to the Chair's ruling and all
that fun stuff we could have done we didn't do because Chair Chung spoke and
Ms. Eoff did as well, quite well.
So I wanted to clarify that. Ms. Eoff's going to ask for a quick recess so that we
can just do some technical matters, and then we can jump right back into this.
MR. CHUNG: Alright, thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you. Recess.
Recess: At 3:54 p.m., the Acting Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 5:28 p.m.
(Note: At this time, Acting Building Chief Robyn Matsumoto, and
Deputy Building Chief Neal Tanaka came forward to address the members
of the Council.)
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, we're out of recess, and thank you so much for
your patience today. And thank you, Val and Neal and Robyn for working on
this. I think everybody should have Communication 989.29 in front of them. So
I'm going to hand it back over to Ms. Poindexter.
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MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, so what we did was being that it's late in the day and
there's certain things that if we would remove from the current communication,
certain words that we were looking at removing, we'd have to take some time to
go through the document to look where in other areas that would be affected. So
what we decided to do is just take the two that we could move forward with, until
we start to work with the others, and we have till November. Or there might be
something that may come at the next meeting also, regarding the permitting
section which DPW with Neal and Robyn were okay with. And unfortunately,
it's not in this communication but that's okay. We kind of rushed this through, so
we're going to work on it.
Withdraw Motion So what I'm going to do is I'm going to, Madam Chair, withdraw
to Amend: Communication 989.27 and I'd like to make a motion to amend with Bill 179
with the Communication Number 989.29.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Poindexter moved to amend Bill 179 with the contents
of Comm. 989.29. Seconded by Ms. David.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, so what we did with 101.6, because when we ended
up reversing those two items, then I guess there was less of being ambiguous
because the way I was reading it and some other of those traditional builders or
people who were calling me were reading it, I think this makes it a little bit more
clear that even if it's an "or" it still has to be either supervised or licensed or by
licensed—and if it's not supervised, they still have to have a manual and by
licensed electricians or plumbers.
So we had sat down—what was his name again? Wayne, yeah. I don't know why
I keep forgetting your name. It's the third time I think, I asked you what your
name is. But in working with Wayne and they understood the confusion.
Anyway, so now to 101.8. We put that in and we took out the "at all times."
There may be a further amendment at the next meeting that I'll be working with
Neal and Robyn on. But at this point, this is all that is coming before us today is
the 989.29.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Does everybody understand what is being presented? Or
do you have any questions, Council Members? My understanding is that this was
a joint effort and acceptable at this point in time. Any other comments, questions?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, could I just clarify something? I want to make sure I
heard it correctly. L101.6.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, Ms. Kierkiewicz.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. So the language in 101.6(b), Number(2) is the
exact same thing as what was in Number(2). Is Council Member Poindexter just
switching the order for clarity? Is that what I'm hearing?
MS. POINDEXTER: Yes.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay.
MS. POINDEXTER: It's just for clarification and better reading, because then
when you read that, then now they can understand that. That's where they were
arguing is where they can use unlicensed contractors, because it's either/or, and it
just didn't I can understand where the ambiguity was, so when we talked with
Wayne and Robyn and Neal and Leslie, switching that around made it a lot more
clear for them. So that's a good thing. So thank you.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, and then under Inspections when I'm taking a look at
the edits made, comparing the first communication that you transmitted, I'm just
seeing that the words "at all times"that was the only thing that was deleted, after
"building official."
MS. POINDEXTER: Yes.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. I just wanted to clarify.
MR. CHUNG: Where?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Under Inspections, I'm comparing the first draft of
amendments that she transmitted, and I just wanted to make sure see where the
exact changes were and what language was being used and confirmed in this
version. Okay, thank you. Chair, I yield.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you. Any other questions?
MS. LEE LOY: Matt has a question.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Oh, I'm sorry. Ms. Lee Loy?
MS. LEE LOY: And obviously—Matt has a question, and
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You can go ahead, Sue.
MS. LEE LOY: Actually, why don't you go ahead, Matt. Because I'm trying to
compare it to Bill 179. I'm a little concerned, one, that we're not cross-walking
the appropriate sections with 5-8-1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. And maybe this is a question
for Mr. Tanaka or Robyn, can you please weigh in on this, because I'm hearing it
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was developed with you folks, but I also know that this section is one small part of
a larger complex section further up front, with the Administrative portion. Does
this amendment work?
MR. TANAKA: Neal Tanaka, Deputy Building Chief. The amendments, they
work. However, I feel that perhaps it may be a better idea to take the time to really
get to a place where it's clear. As of right now, we're moving these in, which I
appreciate Val and Leslie's effort on absolutely. It was fast. And I think there was
a lot of discussion from the public that they never got a chance to look, right?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Neal, having a hard time hearing you. Can you speak up?
Sorry.
MR. TANAKA: I'm sorry.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you.
MR. TANAKA: We've had a lot of discussion from the public that they never had
an opportunity to look at the bill, although there was time. And there continues to
be time. So yes, these amendments, they work. But I think it might be wise to
take a step back and just make sure that we have a good work product all the way
through, inclusive of the public opinion.
MS. LEE LOY: Neal, I think we have something good, but I think because it's
being done so quickly, I think we can come up with something better. I think
I'm trying to truly understand what Val is trying to achieve. I think that's my
problem. I'm hearing loud and clear that we want to ensure that it's inspected.
I'm hearing loud and clear that we want to ensure that we have housing options at
all ranges. What I don't want to do, and this is my biggest concern, Appendix L is
in our Code, but it is also in every other code in all the other municipals in this
State. It might be housed differently in City and County of Honolulu, or Kauai or
Maui, but there's are remaining untouched where we are touching ours, which sets
a higher standard and actually makes it a little more challenging for us to develop
this type of product that is available in other municipals.
So when we talk about a fairness issue and an equity issue, Hawaii County now
becomes the anomaly when it comes to factory-built housing. That's my heartburn
right now, because if this is good for us, then it should be good for everybody, and
this change should be made at the State Building Code Council and it's applied
fairly to every single county in the State of Hawaii. I don't mind working with
Val and looking at a hybrid that achieves all of that and then maybe even set the
model so that other counties can follow, but because this is being developed kind
of at this late hour, I'm not sure if we're rubbing up against other administrative
rules in Bill 179 that we can't see right now because we haven't tried to apply it
yet. Or at least thinking through the application of it.
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That's where I stand. I've being doing this for a long time. I've been working
through this my entire 18 months here. It's been part of our Code since 2012,just
like every other island. We're the only ones touching it at this time. I'm going to
yield, and I want to hear from some of my other colleagues.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you. Do you want to reply?
MS. POINDEXTER: I would want to hear from my other colleagues first before I
finally respond.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay. Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Really just at a glance it doesn't look that bad to me. But because
this thing has been done so quickly and I'm forced to digest all of this, it's very
difficult. But let me ask Neal and Robyn if they could go and look at L101.8 on
the Inspections part, and just go subsection by subsection by subsection, the three,
and tell me what the changes are in a practical sense. Because you know, I don't
deal with factory-built homes, so I don't know how to compartmentalize these
changes. So if—Neal, tell me—or Robyn, explain Subsection (a). What's the
change there? What's the practical change?
MR. TANAKA: So Chair, Subsection (a) in L101.8, the original language said
that, "FBH manufactured outside the County," outside of our jurisdiction, "shall be
inspected by an approved third-party inspectional agency." Whereas now the
change is, "Each and every FBH manufactured outside the County shall be
inspected by the building official within the County."
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, so what's the difference between an approved third part
inspectional agency, and a building official within the County. What is the
practical difference between that?
MR. TANAKA: So as a jurisdiction outside—for example, if this was built on
Oahu, outside of our County, we have no jurisdiction on that county. Sending
inspectors there requiring building permits there forcing another county to go do
inspections is not something that we could do. It's not in our jurisdiction.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, so this cleans things up, or ? I mean, let's go one
component by one component here in Subsection (a).
MR. TANAKA: So this languageI'm sorry, Aaron. So this letter(a), we could
encourage the building official within Oahu County to go inspect, right, because it
would be in their jurisdiction. Our language says that they've got to be inspected,
so "O`ahu, go inspect." That's essentially the difference, as opposed to a
third-parry inspection as approved by us.
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MR. CHUNG: Let's stick with one. Okay, and I'm going to break this down
again component by component now. Factory-built homes, this is in the old
language, "FBH manufactured outside the County shall be inspected . . . "I'm
going to stop right there. The new language says, "Each and every FBH
manufactured outside the County shall be inspected . . . " So by and large same
stuff. I've got no problem with adding "each and every." But now, "inspected
by," so the only changes now, "inspected by an approved third-parry inspectional
agency,"versus, "inspected by the building official within the County." And I'm
assuming within our County, right? Oh within—that's not what it says here,
because the county yeah, the county is a term of art—we are the County,
especially unless it says, "building official within the county in which it was
manufactured." So I'm just wondering—unless that's not what you guys mean.
Because that's how I read it, that it's going to be a building official within our
County. But if it's going to be some other county, then it has to be a little bit more
refined. I'm just wondering what you guys intended. I'm not too sure. Maybe
Val can explain, or whoever was involved in putting this thing together.
MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. So when we sat down there, back there—okay, so
Neal said right now, it would work. Whatever is being composed now, it would
work. So, and then we decided because at first one of the thoughts was do we
just hold off on this till the next meeting and bring back everything that I had in the
first communication and work on that, or do I just—we pick these two that we can
move forward, so that we can work with—when Neal them was willing to work
with some traditional builders and other people to start refining it a little better.
And Appendix L, every single county has different ways of dealing with their
FBH's. Not every county we're not the same as every other County, because if
you look, the reason why this got out there and some traditional homebuilders
were getting a little upset is because there were new provisions in Bill 179,period.
And we don't have—every county is—Neal, is every county the same on their
building codes and what we're doing here? Do we operate the same as City and
County of Honolulu, Maui and Kauai? Are all our building stuff all across the
board?
MR. TANAKA: I can't speak for the other counties.
MS. POINDEXTER: Right. You cannot speak for the other counties. You would
know if it was across the board. Thank you.
MR. CHUNG: Well, Val. I'm not trying to argue with anybody, I want
clarification. That's all I wanted. To know what county are you guys referring to
in this last sentence of Subsection (a)? Is it the county in which this was
manufactured, or the County? Because when you capitalize "County," I stated
earlier, that is a term of art that relates to the County of Hawaii normally. So if
you guys mean the county in which it was manufactured, or city, or country, then
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you guys have to also say the building official within the county, city or whatever
in which it was manufactured.
And that's all I'm saying. I just wanted clarification as to what you guys meant.
MS. POINDEXTER: And that's what it meant, exactly what you said. Because
when I asked, when we talked about that back there, Neal said that was withing the
county, Neal. That county that it was manufactured. That you said but we don't
have the jurisdiction to tell them what to do. So, but that was the intention. If not,
I should have put"in which it was manufactured."
MR. CHUNG: Okay, because I think you have to do that. Okay, so now that we
got that all cleared up, Neal, what is the difference between, the practical
difference between having something inspected by, "an approved third-parry
inspectional agency,"which is what was in the original Appendix L, and"which
shall be inspected by the building official within the County." What is the
difference, or practical difference, with those two requirements? Or is there a
difference?
MR. TANAKA: Val just mentioned, right, Hawaii County, Honolulu County,
Maui County, Kauai County, we all do things differently. What we can do or
what we can tell Honolulu to do is nothing. We cannot tell them what to do on
their inspections and how to inspect or when to inspect. But if they go and inspect
it's likely that they will follow their inspection schedule which includes similar
inspection requirements to us.
MR. CHUNG: No, Neal, I think you guys
MR. TANAKA: I understand. So the difference between an approved third-parry
inspection agency, someone that we qualify, license or certify to be such, would
follow our inspection criteria.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. Yeah, that's all I wanted to know. What's the difference?
Because don't know that a third-parry inspectional agency is really. And it might
be referred to someplace else. But you know, I just wanted to know. You guys are
the guys working on the ground, and so basically, we're going to defer to the
standards to another county even if they're lower standards than ours?
MR. TANAKA: I'm sorry I cannot speak to that. But City and County of
Honolulu was a model. And their standards are not lower than ours.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. So what if this is built on the mainland or China? I'm
worried. Because we say official within the County you know, we're dealing
with law, so we've got to be real specific so that people when they read it they
understand this thing immediately. So obviously there has to be some refining to
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this thing, but what about the standards in other places? What if they're lower than
the standards we have here? We're talking about, you know, leveling the playing
field and doing all of these things, but what if there are no standards? I'm just kind
of concerned about some of these things.
Anyway, let's move on. (Subsection) (b). I'm going to have to read this first,
because we just got this, right? What's the practical difference between this
change?
MR. TANAKA: The only change from this in the communication that you have
received is the removal of the word
MR. CHUNG: No, no, no. I don't care about the other communication, because
that's out already. What is the practical difference between this amendment and
Appendix L as it stands right now? So basically working of what we have in (b),
where you delete some things and you underscore the other ones. What's the
difference?
MR. TANAKA: The way I read this is that originally, "The building official may
make periodic in-plant inspections to verify that the FBH produced comply with
the plans as approved by the building official." So as opposed to having an
inspection as outlined in 5-8-3, 4 and 5 in our Admin Code, which are the same
inspections that a conventional builder would have to go through when they get a
building permit. Originally it said that we would do in-plant inspections, not any
schedule.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, so basically it makes these products that are being built in a
factory to be accessible upon inspection. Is that correct?
MR. TANAKA: And subject to our regular inspection requirements.
MR. CHUNG: Our regular inspection requirements? Where is that now?
MR. TANAKA: (Section) 5-8-4, the last sentence of that new amendment, "All
inspection of FBH shall comply with sections 5-8-1, 5-8-2, 5-8-3, 5-8-4, 5-8-5,
5-8-6, and 5-8-7."
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, and all the way through 5-8-7, right?
MR. TANAKA: Right.
MR. CHUNG: And then in a nutshell, what are those requirements? Just like in a
real short sentence, why are those things? Because I'm just wondering, you said
earlier that we don't have any jurisdiction over those other places, so I just want to
know if this is consistent with that statement.
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MR. TANAKA: Right. So this is saying that it's got to be inspected by us.
Generally, 5-8-2 talks about the work needs to be visible for inspection; 5-8-3 talks
about how and when to request for an inspection; 5-8-4 talks about the required
inspections, building, electrical and plumbing; 5-8-5 talks about the final
inspection; 5-8-6 talks about any special inspections as required for non-residential
application; and 5-8-7 is another regulatory inspection.
MR. CHUNG: But it doesn't deal with the standards, though?
MR. TANAKA: Yes, it does. With regards to 5-8-4, that speaks of the building
work and the standards per for which a building permit is pulled.
MR. CHUNG: But I thought all of you there said that we don't have any—we
don't have jurisdiction over those other places to impose our standards. Or am I
getting something wrong? On the one hand we cannot impose our standards on
those other counties or places, and then, but right now it says all inspections shall
comply with our standards. Am I wrong on that? I'm just trying to understand.
I'm not trying to undermine this thing. I have to understand, and I want to make
sure that this thing is clear.
MR. TANAKA: Yeah, there should be some clarity with regards to being built in
the County.
MR. CHUNG: So am I off-base on this? Val? Anybody? Anyway, let's go on to
Subsection (c) then. What is the practical affect of taking this out?
MR. TANAKA: Taking this out is okay because it talks about special inspectors
or when a special inspection is required. A special inspection is generally defined
in the International Building Code, depending on any structural elements that need
that special inspection. It's different from a third-party inspection.
MR. CHUNG: So you're okay with that then?
MR. TANAKA: Right, because generally residential doesn't require a special
inspection. It's for the non-residential applications.
MR. CHUNG: Alright. So we don't need that.
MR. TANAKA: However(b) calls out 5-8-6, so should it be needed, you can still
call it in, as required.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, so we don't need Subsection (c). That's okay to kick that
out as far as you're concerned.
MR. TANAKA: Yes.
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MR. CHUNG: Okay. So we still have to kind of tweak (a) and(b), right? Or at
least consider the jurisdictional aspects of Subsection (b), and further refining
Subsection (a). Okay, but I'm clear. Okay, and I'm okay with that other one, that
first one, 101.6. I mean basically it just flips (1) and (2). They're the exact same
language. So okay. That's all I have to say. Matt, do you want to take it away?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Val, I just I appreciate your efforts here.
You know, you're trying to just shape this, which is our job, and make it better. I
think what I see in (b) under Inspections is that you have taken away what is kind
of blank check for these buildings to be constructed. And you're requiring
inspections along the way which is what you see in any residence or any
construction project being built across the island. It's not just like I know from
my experience if we rough in conduit in a wall, they can't close the walls in until
they do a rough-in inspection. So to allow what I see in (b) as the wording that
you've crossed off is, "will make periodic in-plant inspections,"which basically
says, "Once in a while we'll come check your work. The rest of the time we're
okay with what you're doing." So you've actually increased our ability to see
what's happening in the factory. And if I'm understanding that correctly—and
Neal, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's what I'm getting out of
section (b).
MR. TANAKA: Correct.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And I think that's good. It keeps everyone in
line and makes sure that we're inspecting the work that's going into the houses,
and it keeps our eyes on the project that's happening. Am I right or wrong, Neal?
MR. TANAKA: That's the way that I read it.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Because the wording that she's crossed out
basically said, "We'll come by whenever."
MR. TANAKA: Correct.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And the wording that she's put back in is,
"We'll come by for every single part of the inspection like any other house would
have to comply with in our County." Correct?
MR. TANAKA: Correct.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Now if I was to stick with the section in (b), I
would say that every package home that is preapproved should just not have to
come in for any kind of inspection at all, because we know it's going to be built.
But we don't allow that for any home out in the field. But in this case, we'd be
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giving aalmost a special circumstance to factory-built homes. For whatever
reason. You know, that is what it is. So I appreciate the language in (b).
I would offer my thoughts on 101.8(a)under Inspections in the communication
that Val has put forward, 989.29. Maybe to put the words, "within the County
having jurisdiction," so it's not confusing. Because it is a little confusing. I'll
offer that. It could sayI mean, I don't want to see building inspectors or
electrical or plumbing inspectors flying from Hawaii Island to Oahu to go check
out a home that's being built on Oahu. That doesn't make that's not common
sense, but I understand the intent there, so I think that is good but needs definition.
Then I don't think we should be hiring special inspectors because, I mean let's just
go as simple as because COVID and we don't have extra money to be doing
special favors for anybody.
Thank you for rearranging 101.6. You know, if that reads better and you feel more
comfortable and this body feels more comfortable with that wording, then I'll
support this.
I think overallI mean maybe we're all a little tired, but this is important. A lot of
people feel strongly about this. All the different sides feel very strongly about this
bill because it affects a lot of different people in a lot of different ways. From
people who can manufacture, to our construction workers in the field, to how many
inspections this is, and the different jobs that this represents. So this is important,
we should take our time. But for right now, I do support this communication to
amend our bill in front of us, and I think it's a step in the right direction. I yield.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Ms. David,
did you have a question or a comment?
MS. DAVID: Yes. Thank you, Chair Chung and Matt, for providing a little bit
more clarity in understanding this complex issue. And then actually for
Ms. Pondexter and Robyn and Neal and Wayne for putting in the time while we
waited for them to come out with this proposal.
So am I understanding then, Neal, that this proposed amendment that was
discussed by Mr. Chung and Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, is this okay with possibly
that notation that Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder stated? Having jurisdiction, in
101.8(a).
MR. TANAKA: Yes. Just the clarification of the jurisdiction.
MS. DAVID: Okay. So I know it's been a long day, but I see this as, in
comparison to what we had before us when we first started on this journey this
afternoon, I see that as a move or a step in the right direction. We're not going to
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fix this whole thing tonight, but I think this is a pretty good attempt and effort by
all of you so that we can at least make some progress. And there's still a lot more
work. I understand you guys have a lot more work to do. But for now,
Ms. Poindexter, considering the comments made by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, I
know you need to work on this further, would you consider then including such
language that would be comfortable for
MS. POINDEXTER: May I answer, Chair?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: I like what Aaron said too, "in which it was manufactured."
"Within the County in which it was manufactured." And again, that amendment I
can make at the next meeting, and I'll work with Neal and Robyn because Council
Chair Aaron Chung pointed out a good point that if it's out of country, you know,
a lot of this—so how do we—maybe there's something else that we have to
include in there to make sure that when they outsource who does the final
inspection and where. Because that is nowhere addressed in this and even in the
language before we crossed out some stuff. So thank you Council Chair for
pointing that out.
So yes, I'll work with Neal and Robyn to get this portion done. And they were
wanting one more portion to be added, but we will come back.
MS. DAVID: Yeah, because I understand that, you know, while we have control
over our own laws and rules and regs, once this goes out into the world, you know,
how do we ensure that we have quality products coming into—especially when
we're dealing with housing, because it affects the safety of our people, right? And
I totally get that.
So what I'm saying is that I think the outside factory-built homes may even have to
be looked at more closely and maybe develop separate and aside, not combining it
with local, even for that matter statewide factory-built homes. Because I think for
statewide, even though we're slightly different—and I don't think we need to be
all conforming, right—so I think we have a little bit more control and trust for in
State type of stuff. But the out of state, that's concerning also. And I think that's a
lot of concern for the people here too, in the industry. So I will support this effort
right now, this communication. Thanks, you guys. Thank you, Leslie, for helping
us with this amendment and staying around with us tonight. So I yield. Thank
you, Chair.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you. Any other comments?
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, Karen?
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ACTING CHR. EOFF: Go ahead, Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, I've just narrowed it down now to
Subsections (a) and (b). I'm okay with the intent of Subsection (a), and as Val
stated, you know, she's willing to tweak it, but it has to really be refined, because
first of all, building official—and you know, I have to confess, I didn't look at all
the definitions contained in this bill, but I didn't find any definition of"building
official"within the bill. I don't know, I looked at the definitions.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Mr. Tanaka, can you help us? Is the building official
officially defined?
MR. CHUNG: It's not in the bill, right? Yeah, and of course, so we don't know
what"building official" means, but I think we have good idea what it could mean,
but I think it has to be defined. You can't only just talk about counties, because
this is presupposing that it's going to come from a neighbor island, probably City
and County. But it might come from the mainland. And you know, I don't know
if they have counties or cities or townships or what. And the big one is if it comes
from a foreign country. How do we inspect that?
Because if we don't have real good inspection methods put into place, then what
we do is we really give a huge advantage to foreign countries. And I don't think
that's what we want. I mean we're looking out for affordability, but we're going
to have tighten that thing up.
Now with regard to (b), again, you know, it refers to building official. But I'm still
very concerned about that last sentence, all inspections of FBH shall comply with
our sections. It contradicts what was represented earlier, that we cannot impose
our standards onto other jurisdictions. So I think that has to be tweaked, okay.
And just the overarching concept and policy here is how is this going to make
housing more affordable to our residents?
Because, you know, I've looked at this three you know, there's three policy
concerns here. One is we want to provide work for our local labor force. I'm all
for that. The other one is we have to have some degree of creating a level playing
field. But the third one is to provide affordable housing, and that's where we have
to meld all of these concepts and balance them and come up with a good product.
So if someone can explain to me how we're achieving affordable homes. Because
that's the whole idea behind this thing, right? Neal, Robyn, Val, anybody?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: This is Val. You know, and we all know, small homes are
cheaper, right Neal? Would you disagree with me?
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. TANAKA: Generally.
MS. POINDEXTER: Generally. And if they're built at a factory and they have,
and we talked about this, like five homes ready to go and be inspected. Say, hey
County, every whatever, every other week or whatever, how they want to schedule
it, get over there, boom, boom, boom, and then push it out. Because when I spoke
with HPM last night, with Jason, you know, I asked him is there an additional cost
of getting inspected instead of just pushing it out,pushing it out, pushing it out
without any inspection. And I'm worried about safety with the walls closed and
electrical in already with no inspection. So you know, and he said time is money.
So it's basically time is money, but I think we can make those accommodations
when we're looking at affordable housing, right? Making sure that our inspectors
are going on a regular basis when they need the inspection. And we've got to face
it. Plumbers and electricians, when we talked about this Bill 179, they no more
problems, even with permits. So what we're talking about is making sure that we
can have affordable housing, and it will still be affordable housing. It's just how
the County and our systems work, right, to make that happen and to work with,
you know,just regular traditional builders and the factory home builders. And it
can happen. It can work. Everybody has to make some compromises, and you
know, it'll work. It'll work. So that's my point. Thanks.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, well you know, I'm not sold by the explanation, but I
appreciate it. As I said, I also appreciate the fact that this is a pared down
compromised version of what was originally proposed. And I'm okay with it in
concept. I'm going to be voting against it today, because it's not quite tightened
up. But when it is tightened up, then I'll vote for it. I'll just tell you guys that I
will vote for it, but there's some things that just have to be tightened up from now
until the time—well, if it's going to be approved, then you're going to have to
amend the bill.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Mr. Chung?
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, anyway, you know what my concerns are, and you know,
I'm willing to support it at some point, but not in its present form. Thank you.
MR. TANAKA: Chair, I'd like to just kind of give you a little explanation on that
building official consistency issue. From the very beginning, Bill 179 was going
to be a framework bill. Right? It's consolidating all of our definitions, all of our
language, all of our sections, building, electrical and plumbing into one
building/construction code. Appendix L was part of our Building Code, which we
had all intention to address by November, so we didn't put in the effort to make
those specific amendments when it came to "building official." Building official is
actually a very specific term in the International Building Code. So that's one of
the inconsistencies there.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
Furthermore, I think when Val said that affordability, yes, smaller houses generally
are cheaper, but what makes housing so expensive here, I think we're all going to
agree, that it's not just the construction of the home. The Building Division, this
Building Code definitely has some element to it, but it's the infrastructure, right,
the zoning. All of these elements of obtaining housing in this Hawaii County
needs to be addressed as a whole. So this Bill 179 is definitely specific to the
building/construction code. Smaller houses generally yes, would be affordable.
More affordable, cheaper, than larger homes. However, the framework is what we
were focusing on in Bill 179. So I hope that clarifies that up a little bit.
MR. CHUNG: Can I respond? Karen?
MR. TANAKA: Sure.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Oh, the last(inaudible). That's okay.
MR. TANAKA: Exercising my authority, yeah?
MR. CHUNG: I'm absolutely okay with that explanation. I just brought that up,
you know, the building official, because I said, I don't see it defined anywhere.
But now that Neal explained it, you know, that it's a term of art within the building
industry. That's fine. That wasn't the big concern for me. I stated what my
concerns were, it's tightening up the last part of the language of Subsection (a) and
the last part in Subsection (b). Those were my two concerns. Okay, thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Mr. Chair, it was brought to my attention that the
definition for "building official"was in her original Communication, 989.27.
MR. CHUNG: Right. That was made clear by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder as well.
But it's not there anymore.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: No it isn't. So if our goal was to move forward with this
revised tapered down amendment tonight, then maybe by second reading we could
tighten it up just a little bit which wouldn't be too substantial for us being able to
meet all of our goals, deadlines et cetera, for the next reading.
MR. CHUNG: Well, as I said, that wasn't something that was really important to
me. I brought it up, but de minimus, quite frankly.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay well, any other comments?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, I'm just curious if Council Member Poindexter
would be open to postponing this particular communication. I mean, we are
coming off of two very long days of Council. I think it would be prudent for all of
us to put some fresh eyes on this. I think everyone agrees with the intent, but we
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
are just concerned with ensuring that we have the right words on paper. Because
words matter and we certainly don't want to muddy any of the issues. We want to
be very clear for everyone that's going to be reading the Code.
So just curious of Council Member Poindexter would, you know, consider
postponing. And now that we've had a really robust discussion at Council, I'm
sure lots of folks are tuning in, and that way we can ensure that the public who we
are serving and is listening in, we can certainly get their mana`o on these potential
changes.
MR. CHUNG: And Madam Chairman?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: I'd be more than happy to work with Ms. Poindexter in coming up
with language that's satisfactory to me anyway. I can't speak for anybody else.
But I'd be more than happy to do that.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: I think earlier we considered postponing, but we kind of
decided that in order to meet all of the deadlines that Public Works is comfortable
with, and even our timeline, that we need to keep this moving to second reading by
next meeting.
MR. CHUNG: Madam Chair? I think what Ms. Kierkiewicz meant was to
postpone or hold off on taking action on this amendment. Because we're
anticipating something coming from Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder too, although we
don't know what is, right? We're not supposed to know. But we're expecting
something to surface at our next meeting anyway, so you know, if we take a little
bit more time on this one, we'd probably get a good package anyway. Thank you.
MS. POINDEXTER: Madam Chair?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Ms. Poindexter.
MS. POINDEXTER: I prefer moving forward so that it is documented already,
and then work on the amendments that I on record said that I'd—and I'd also work
with you Council Chair Chung along with Neal and Robyn. And Leslie of course,
because she's going to be helping with putting this together. So I prefer moving it
forward so that we have some forward movement on this and gives some hope to
some of those who are concerned, and some calm. And I think we did pretty good
so far, and yeah. And we'll talk. So I'm okay with meeting with you, Neal and
Robyn. Thank you, Chair.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: And you're saying you would bring your further
amendments next meeting.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MS. POINDEXTER: Yes.
MR. RICHARDS: Chair?
ACTING CHR. EOFF: I hear somebody.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, Richards.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Tim, go ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Thanks, Chair. Val I'm just going to weigh in real
quick too. I like the intent and the direction, but I've got to agree with Chair
Chung that I think there's a little bit more work that we need to do to refine that.
And I agree, I understand giving some people some comfort and a direction. But
right now it's not ready for prime time. So I can't support the amendment as it's
written today. But I do support the intent and the direction you're taking it. I
yield.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay. Ms. Poindexter? She's giving me her
MS. POINDEXTER: I prefer moving forward. We've done this before in other
while we worked on other things and said we would then make changes forward.
We do this for other Council Members so I'm just asking the same. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Her preference is to go ahead and move this amendment in
and then further work on it at the next meeting, where it wouldn't be as substantial
of an amendment at that time. So I guess that's her opinion, and I'll have to take a
roll call vote then, on Communication 989.29.
Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 179 with the contents of
to Amend: Comm. 989.29 was carried by the following roll call vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,
Poindexter, Villegas, and Acting Chair Eoff—5.
Noes: Council Members Chung, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, and Richards —4.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
(Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder voted "kanalua,"then "aye.")
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you. The amendment passes. So we are back to
the main motion which is Bill 179 as amended. Let's take the communications.
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Hawaii County Council-47 July 22,2020
MR. HENRICKS: That would take a while. Many communications. But for the
record, 989.5, 989.6, 989.7, 989.8, and 989.29. Thank you, Madam Chair.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Okay, thank you. I'll take a roll call vote.
Vote on Bill 179: The motion to pass Bill 179, as amended to Draft 2, on first
Draft 2 reading and to adopt Public Works and Mass Transit
(Approved) Committee Report Number 23 was carried by the following
roll call vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas,
and Acting Chair Eoff—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you very much.
REFERRALS Acting Chair Eoff directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
FOR Referrals for Executive Session.
EXECUTIVE
SESSION: (There were none.)
OTHER Acting Chair Eoff directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
BUSINESS: Other Business.
(There was none.)
ANNOUNCE- Acting Chair Eoff directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
MENTS: Other Business.
(There were none.)
ACTING CHR. EOFF: And now we need a motion to adjourn.
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Hawai`i County Council-47 July 22,2020
ADJOURNMENT: There being no further business, at 6:26 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn the
meeting. Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Chung, David,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Poindexter, Richards, Villegas,
and Acting Chair Eoff—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. EOFF: Thank you, Council Members. This meeting is
adjourned.
Approved: OCT 7 2020
(Date)
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