HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PWMTC 2020/11/05 2018-2020 Committee on Public Works and Mass Transit
28th Session
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaii
November 5, 2020
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Public Works and Mass Transit
ORDER: was called to order at 2:28 p.m. in the Council Chambers, Hilo, Hawaii, by
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Chair
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair
Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member(came in later)
Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member (via videoconference from Kona)
Ms. Karen Eoff, Member (via videoconference from Kona)
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member
Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (via videoconference from Kona)
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by
the Chair:
Jim Cain: Bill 217 (Comm. 1130), in support.
(See Comm. 1130.1)
Susan Collins: Bill 217 (Comm. 1130), comment.
Heather McNeill: Bill 217 (Comm. 1130), comment.
Melani Ide: Bill 217 (Comm. 1130), comment.
(representing Bishop Museum)
Sheena Lopes: Bill 217 (Comm. 1130), in opposition.
PWMTC-28 November 5,2020
Jackson Bauer: Bill 217 (Comm. 1130), in opposition.
(representing Na Ala Hele
Trails and Access Program,
Department of Land and Natural
Resources, Division of Forestry
and Wildlife)
Elizabeth O'Keefe: Bill 217 (Comm. 1130), comment.
Also see the following written testimony relating to Comm. 1130 (Bill 217), which
were presented at the meeting:
Dorothy Bowers, Comm. 1130.2
Noah Brustin, Comm. 1130.3
Bobby Camara, Comm. 1130.5
Sunee Campbell, Comm. 1130.6
Cory Harden, Comm. 1130.7
Marissa Harman, Comm. 1130.8
David Hunt, Comm. 1130.9
Lori Johnson, Comm. 1130.10
Ron Johnson, Comm. 1130.11
Zachary Judd, Comm. 1130.12
Dr. Ku Kahakalau, Comm. 1130.13
Dr. Tawn Keeney, Comm. 1130.14
Dr. Graham Paul Knopp, Comm. 1130.15
Colleen A. Lawrence, Comm. 1130.16
Richard L. Lawyer, Comm. 1130.17
Charlotte Leger, Comm. 1130.18
Mary Marvin Porter, Comm. 1130.19
Joan Maute, Comm. 1130.20
Gloria-Ann Pualani Muraki, Comm. 1130.21
Seth Nickell, Comm. 1130.22
Janice Palma-Glennie, Comm. 1130.23
Christopher Rathbun, Comm. 1130.24
Michelle Suber, Comm. 1130.25
Gyongvi "Momi" Szirom, Comm. 1130.26
Mary True, Comm. 1130.27
Sheryl Vierra, Comm. 1130.28
Dorian Weisel, Comm. 1130.29
Toni Withington, Comm. 1130.30
Frank Wroblewski, Comm. 1130.31
Jeff Yamauchi, Comm. 1130.32
Krisha Zane, Comm. 1130.33
CHR. LEE LOY: Mr. Clerk, I think we should start with Communication 1100.
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COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
Comm. 1100: REQUESTS A DISCUSSION WITH SSFM INTERNATIONAL REGARDING
THE DEVELOPMENT OF SIGNAGE FOR HELE-ON BUS STOPS AROUND
HAWAII COUNTY
From Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated September 29, 2020.
Postponed: October 20, 2020
(Note: There is a motion by Ms. Kierkiewicz, seconded by Ms. Poindexter, to
close file on Comm. 1100.)
Comm. 1100.1: From Council Member Sue Lee Loy, dated November 4, 2020, transmitting
hardcopy of the PowerPoint presentation.
(Note: At this time, Mass Transit Administrator Brenda Carreira came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. With that, I'm going to have staff
pull in Brenda who is waiting. And I'll also direct the rest of my colleagues
to Communication 1100.1, which is a very short presentation provided by
Mass Transit. Brenda, if you could please walk us through your presentation.
MS. CARREIRA: Okay, thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. And I'm sorry, it should have
been the Public Works and Mass Transit we're making it in today.
Regarding the bus stop signage, before we move on, is I'd like to say a big
mahalo to SSFM. In fact, Cheryl Soon and Joanna Herkes they really did the
work, and we've enjoyed their labor; also for Kasie Kailikea, who is part of my
office, big time with(inaudible) and bus stops and regarding this matter, the bus
stop signs.
So I'm going to be showing you some samples of the signs, but what I've done
before that, is Joanna Herkes did contact, I believe, each member of the Council
to look at one of the (inaudible) vehicles. That was part of it that we wanted to be
able to put on our signs. And that we also did, as I would just wanted to let you
know, a memorandum or the memo that SSFM did, I was able to forward it to
Department of Public Works, Aaron Takaba, who is with the Traffic and the
Signs Division to make sure we were okay as to what we wanted to do. And we
were able toI was able to get a very quick response for him.
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(Note: At this time, Ms. Carreira provided a PowerPoint presentation to
the members of the Committee. For viewing of subject presentation, see
the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office.
A copy of the PowerPoint presentation is made a part of the record, see
Comm. 1100.1.)
CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Brenda. You know, I took this up because I know
SSFM was reaching out to all the Council Members. You know, COVID hit and
everybody's focus went in a different direction, which is okay. But what I
actually hear you asking for is more feedback from Council Members on signage.
But I think what we also need to hear is how this ties in to the overall route plan,
because many of us have traveled all over. We're getting on a bus, getting on a
train, you know, there's a particular stop we want to make. We know to get on
the Red Line or the Blue Line. Help us Brenda, as Council Members, understand
how this ties into the overall Mass Transit Master Plan and the overall unrolling
of the various routes and the timing of that rollout of the various routes.
MS. CARREIRA: Okay, sure. I'd be happy to do that. Well, one, with these
particular—what we're doing right now, and always, actually during this time is
really relooking at all the routes, looking at ridership. We're looking at the safety
of where bus stops are, do we need to change that? And we are renumbering the
routes. That's all part of the Master Plan. We're starting to do that, too.
So on these particular bus stop signs, they will have the numbers of the different
routes. And before we roll out all the new things, we would be having either
completely sharing or virtual meetings, or newspaper accounts to give people time
to get used to the new things.
So on each sign, whatever is going to stop at that particular bus stop, would be on
the sign; and that way if we do go there and they're aware of what the routes are,
it will say the very—all of the routes that are going to stop at that sign. If you
don't see your number of the route that you're supposed to be; you're actually at
the wrong place. And so there will be a different number—well, same numbers in
a lot of places, like Kona or in Puna, but there will be different bus stop numbers,
you know, on the bottom.
And what we're also working on is that the bus—the mobile transit app. That is
supposed to—although it's not necessarily connected to aI mean, like digitally
to the sign, but the mobile transit app would also have all the same routes that is
going that we have on Hele-On and what the hope is with the transit app, it's
going to connect with all of our routes. And then that's going to be through a
device, electronic device or phone. And be able to say the bus—for (inaudible)
supposed to go by bus stop sign for 1218, that a person on the website, I mean on
their phone. We have a connection, like a synchromatics or whatever it is with
the mobile transit app, so we would know, that person would know exactly where
the bus is, is it on time, you know, did it leave? You know, all of those things.
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That's the hope to connect everything together, which is definitely also part of the
Master Plan.
But part of the signs were, yeah, we needed new ones. We needed to make sure
that they're visible, they're noticeable that everybody knows, and can hopefully
try and see it at night. I wish we could do it neon. You know, so a lot of it had to
do with what type of paint we had—we would use. But that's kind of the
connection that we wanted to have.
But part of it was making sure all (inaudible). Although, the routes are in
progress. It's always in progress. You know, somebody says, "Hey, it's not
safe." We're going to change it. So that's always good. We talk and we're going
to look at. But during this entire time, we have refurbished, redone routes,
making it better. From people getting input from drivers, talking to people who
call us today, "What about this place?" Checking on safety. Roberts has been a
big help when we have questions. So it's a collaborative effort with everybody.
But signs, it's the first time that you would have a bus stop sign kind of like
Honolulu that will tell you the route numbers, and trying to get like, you know,
Kona, for whatever part of it on that sign. (Inaudible) a bigger sign. So I hope
that answers your question, Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR. LEE LOY: Yeah, thank you, Brenda. And I noticed this is rather clunky
because we're trying to figure it out at this point. So with that, I'm actually going
to yield to the rest of my Council Members, if there are any questions. Because I
see Mr. Kaneali`i-KI einfelder's light on, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for doing
this, Brenda. This is exciting. I think a lot of our ridership has been wondering
where the stops are, where they need to be and wanting to track that better. And
we have the SSFM Master Plan from Mass Transit. It's all coming together, so
mahalo for that.
My only question, kind of regarding the more the technological side, can we
implement some kind of a QR(Quick Response) code on the signs? So that
someone can scan it with their phone, is that something that's being discussed?
MS. CARREIRA: Yes, sir. And I'm sorry, I didn't mention that. But that tech
—
I think that's even what they have in Oahu. But sorry, that is always something
that—you know, because we're still going to be portraying. We want to make
something—so yes, the QR code actually is the one that is (inaudible) connection.
Thank you, sir.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, it's something I had asked Joanna, I
think. And I just wanted to make sure we were going to continue to do that.
Because that way peoplea lot of people have smartphones, and they can
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actually scan the sign where they're at, see where the bus is at, how long before it
gets to them, and that's beautiful if we're helping create a more streamlined
Mass Transit system for our ridership. Okay, good. Mahalo. Thank you.
MS. CARREIRA: Thank you.
CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Anyone in Kona?
MS. VILLEGAS: Yes,please.
MR. KAMELAMELA: Go ahead, Ms. Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, I just really want to put out and compliment whoever
is doing been doing the art for this. I know a few months ago I spoke with
Ms. Herkes and saw some examples of the artwork potentially to be used on our
signage, and what I continue to see here is just—it's really beautiful. It's really
reflective of our island. It's unique. Ccs' (carbon copies) and topographies and
the colors that are being shown and reflected here, having worked in marketing
with the Kona Brewing Company for so long. And these kind of graphics and
stuff, this is just really, really cool to see what exemplary and professional
product is being put out. So thank you so much for that. I'm really excited for
the reflection of the Big Island that our Mass Transit collateral and materials are
aiming towards. So thank you so much.
MS. CARREIRA: You're welcome. And that's—all of this is SSFM. SSFM
always meeting with us, and we were going through different colors. But they've
just been 300 percent awesome.
CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. Anyone else in Kona?
MS. DAVID: No, we're good.
CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. Seeing none, you know, Brenda, maybe you could
share how would the community begin to engage. We talk a lot about engaging
community. And part of that is the ownership, right? And if they engage in this
process, especially it's something like signage, or you know, the various artwork
on the signs. How do they engage? How do they provide that kind of input? We
want a Mass Transit system that's involving community because the community
will use it. But when they have ownership in stuff like this, it helps. How do they
do that?
MS. CARREIRA: Okay, and thank you for asking. Part of it is one, I know I
would be asking for the help of each of the Council Members. I do know that
SSFM, when we did the community meetings for the hubs, they knew (inaudible)
through us having meetings, and I know now it has to be virtual. So I think that's
going to be part of it is, before rolling out anything is to—well one, again with the
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new leadership that's going to be happening in December. But I know with Mitch
Roth, he has a lot of community ties and relationships, as do all of you. So that's
where I will be asking for help, to say, "Hey, what groups do we need to—how
can we set up the virtual meetings," and to introduce a lot of the new things that
are going to be happening with Mass Transit.
And so, I don't have a specific plan right now. (Inaudible) but I'm willing for all
kinds of suggestions and recommendations, and will also be talking with SSFM to
help in this matter, yes.
CHR. LEE LOY: Well, thank you for that, Brenda. Like I saidI mean, we're
just at that infant stage, and I just wanted to put it out there that this is the time for
community to engage. And it sounds clunky and lumpy right now, but hopefully
with community input and more progress, you know, it will start to work nicely
with the overall Mass Transit Master Plan.
So with that, not seeing anymore comments, I have a motion to close file on
Communication 1100. All those in favor?
Vote on Comm. 1100: The motion to close file on Comm. 1100 was carried by
Filed the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Lee Loy –8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Chung– 1.
Excused: None.
CHR. LEE LOY: Moving on our agenda. Thank you, Brenda. Thank you so
much.
MS. CARREIRA: Alright, everybody.
CHR. LEE LOY: Alright. Moving on to—looks like Bills for Ordinances.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions.
(There were none.)
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
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Bill 217: AMENDS CHAPTER 24, ARTICLE 10, DIVISION 4, SECTION 24-278 OF
THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED),
RELATING TO PEDESTRIANS
Amends Section 24-278, Schedule 26 (Roads closed to pedestrian traffic),
Subsection (a), Hamakua, by adding a portion of Waipi`o Valley Road running
from the Waipi`o Valley lookout to a point near its entry upon the valley floor.
Reference: Comm. 1130
Intr. by: Ms. Poindexter
Motion to Approve: Ms. Poindexter moved to recommend passage of Bill 217
on first reading. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Poindexter, this is your matter. Go ahead.
MS. POINDEXTER: Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, with tourism opening
up again we needed to, you know, it's time to address the safety of the public on a
County road that's like no other County road. I mean, this is, I think, the only
County-owned road that is accessed through a 4-Wheel Drive. It's such a
You know, we've heard one of the testifiers talk about the road initially being
made for a pedestrian-type of access, meaning the residents getting out of the
valley and bringing their taro to market, and they're right. And for mules, for
donkeys, right? And we've got to remember that. The purpose of that road was
for the residents and taro farmers. It's their livelihood. This is their home.
UnfortunatelyI say "unfortunately"because now it's a public road owned by
government that we have to allow public access. So we're looking at vehicular
access and pedestrian access.
And one testifier talked about, you know, we should have been doing studies, you
know, before this comes. Well, to tell you the truth since I've been in office for
eight years, every single day we take the statistics of local traffic, rental car traffic,
pedestrian, hikers going in, both local and visitor traffic. You know, we have had
a lot of discussion on road issues as well as the health of the valley itself.
And Council Member Tim Richards has come on several occasions to some of the
meetings addressing the health conditions of the animals. You know, the horses
were starting to get sick, and we're trying to find out why. So there are a lot of
issues in Waipi`o. And so what we did was we put a working group together
because we keep having these community meetings and taking in all this
information. And before I came into office, for years they've been trying to deal
with this and come up with some type of solution. And there's not just one
solution. There are many things happening in the valley that we have to address.
Now, so the working group, right now we have our police captain from Hamakua
on that group. We have Research and Development with that group. DPW, which
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PWMTC-28 November 5,2020
is our Department of Public Works. Parks and Rec., because our Ranger Program
is there; that's Park and Rec. employees. We have the Mayor's Office on. We
have Corp. Counsel, of course, because everything we do, you know, we have to
keep in mind the legality of all—of how we move forward, and what is allowed
and what is not allowed. We have from the Waipi`o Taro Farmers Association, the
president and some of the members, and we have Haola O Waipi`o.
The men of Pa`a, we included them. They're not a group from the Waipi`o area,
but they're in the Puna area. But a lot of their service—and some of their people
have family, and they work they work the lo`i down there. They've been going
down and helping, volunteer in the valley for cleanup or whatever that needs to be
done in the valley, so they're on this group, also. Because Waipi`o Valley is not
just public access for District 1. This is public access for everyone, right? So
trying to include everyone.
Bishop Museum, of course, because they are one of the biggest landowners. And
then we have Kamehameha Schools because of the beach area. DLNR
(Department of Land Natural Resources), Bob Matsuda has been so wonderful
with sitting on this group in our calls every month. DOCARE (Division of
Conservation and Resources Enforcement) is involved. Representative
Mark Nakashima, from the State level. And then we've included Department of
Agriculture as well because of farming.
At the next meeting, they said we're going to have the Hawaii Tourism
Association because we did have Ross Birch on; we're bringing him back on
again. We were working with the rental companies to see how we can minimize
the traffic going down into the valley because the rental agreement already says
that they should not be taking the rental cars into the valley. That is one of the
restrictions, but there's no enforcement, so that is what we're trying to work on
with the rental companies. How can we enforce that? Can they put a fine on it, or
whatever? But they've had several occasions where rental vehicles have gone
down. They weren't familiar with the valley. If you've seen some pictures on
social media, it was immersed in water. So the amount of money that the tourist
paid on that I can only imagine.
So there's you know, it's so difficult because a lot of them don't speak English,
as well, so they don't understand when the ranger or educational officer is trying to
explain to them how to traverse that road. That you've got to give the upcoming
traffic has the right-of-way, so you've got to pull out on the pullout. The problem
there is we have so much traffic going in and out and so many hikers. When I
went down with Dorothy Gamayo, and I don't know if it was Corp. Counsel that
time, couple years ago, and we were going down, hikers were going down, hikers
were coming up. People were on the—where the guardrails are and on the valley
wall. And when we went down we needed to pull aside because the cara truck
was coming up. All of those tourists jumped over the guardrail to get out of the
way of the vehicle. Now, that is really dangerous.
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The other tourist that was walking was on the wall, and they tell the tourists don't
walk on the wall, because if a vehicle loses the brakes, the first place they're going
to go is they're going to go for the wall. But there's no control of that. You know,
just last month we had someone lose brakes, and they went into the wall. And I
think they tumbled. I think it turned over too, and luckily no one was killed. And
luckily we had the COVID thing out and the restriction, so you didn't have much
hikers at all. I think it was none at that point. I've got to look at the statistics. We
do have statistics.
So I want to go back to—in January, before COVID hit and we had the closure of
the stay-home orders and all of that, you know, on a busy day we would have over
300 rental vehicles going into the valley. That is not including the local traffic.
And you can get these statisticswe have them back for years, right, since I've
been in office and maybe even before that.
And then we had on that same day we had I think it was between 150 to 200-plus
hikers per day that week, when I was looking in the month of January. So it's a
recipe for disaster, you know. And then here theI heard one of the testifiers say,
"We need to walk. I went to the back or to the top of the—whatever." How do
you get there when it's all private property? So the owners of the valley, the
residents, are complaining that there is so much trespassing going on in the valley,
and crossing through their property.
I've had pictures that was sent to me of people who were defecating in the valley.
I mean, it was gross pictures. But where they going? You have—in one day you
have 300 vehicles, then you have 200-plus hikers, don't tell me that those hikers
going hike down and they don't have to urinate or defecate somewhere, right? If
they go to the beach, they may be lucky enough to get into a restroom or a portable
toilet that is not full. So a lot of times they don't even use the portable toilets, they
use the bushes in the area around the beach area or go in the water.
The Taro Farmers Association, Haola O Waipi`o and all of the community, the
residents and taro farmers, are asking for some type of regulation and also a study
on the road. Our DPW (Department of Public Works) had hired a Geotech and
environmental engineering firm, and right now they're assessing, you know, the
carrying capacity of the road and if there is any undermining of the road because
of, you know, all the storms we've been having. And we don't know what the
carrying capacity is. That report is supposed to come back in mid-December,
according to David(Yamamoto) at DPW.
You know, I respect the testifiers. One of the good things about bringing it to
Council is that it opens it up to the broader public. So I appreciateI truly
appreciate the testifiers coming to testify about, you know, using the road for
exercise, which I totally disagree with because that road is not to use for exercise.
This is for the livelihood of the people of the valley. And yes, they want to
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welcome visitors, but at what cost? You know, are they going to lose their cultural
heritage? You know, what are we doing?
But back to bringing it to Council, this is a way that we can discuss it as
representatives for each district on this island without violating the Sunshine Law.
And I would encourage the constituents of each district to contact their Council
Members if they cannot make testimony, you know, whether it be written or via
WebEx. And share your concerns, because Waipi`o is for everyone to enjoy. But
the one thing we need to remember, again, and I'm going to keep saying this, we
have to keep in mind the residents who have been there for generations. And our
taro farmers. This is their livelihood. Not all of the taro farmers live in the valley,
they live in other districts, as well.
So my intention today is to keep it at the committee level till we can get more
public input from the entire island. And then—and concerns that they may come
up with. Because they're going, "Well, you know in Honolulu they get—they
restrict how many cars go down," and blah, blah, blah, and we looked into that.
We looked into why that is allowed on Oahu in some areas and why we couldn't
do it in Waipi`o. And correct me if I'm wrong, Joe, but it's because some of the
areas in—like Honolulu has a different a protection. What is it called? Yeah,
Joe, can you come up for a little bit?
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Joseph Kamelamela came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. POINDEXTER: Because the reason why I need you to explain that too, is
that we have people watching, and the public needs to the broader public needs
to understand the things that we've already tried to do with restricting traffic. And
we're going to try and—we're looking into a permitting system as well for the
vehicular access, but we're working at one thing at a time. But, Joe, it was a
Special Management Area, or what was it called, the difference?
MR. KAMELAMELA: Good afternoon, Chair and Members of the board.
Joseph Kamelamela, Corp. Counsel. Anyway, yeah, so some of the areas that we
looked at, you know, they had created a Special Management Area. And so we
had looked into that as one way in which to help regulate what needs to be
regulated to ensure the safety of not only the residents but the visitors and people
utilizing the road. But to actually do a management area, it can take a very long
time. For example, I've seen like Kauai and some other parts of the State, you
know, it takes decades sometimes just to create. You know, taking decades is kind
of too long to resolve a safety issue that has to be addressed. But it's a safety issue
that has existed for over 30 years now. You know, there has been a death on the
road over 30 years ago that people don't really remember.
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So what we have before this Council now, is just one of the ways to help regulate
what we can. Because there are other things that we are considering and which
Council Member Val Poindexter had talked about, which is a study being done by
Public Works as to what's the carrying capacity. That's an important issue
because it goes to—if there's a necessity to do certain things, it's good that we try
to get a handle on all of it now rather than risk the possibility of a collapse of the
road. That's what the study is for. It's a GeoTech study.
MS. POINDEXTER: Right. Thank you, Joe. And yeah, when we talk about the
collapse of the road, if we wait till that happens, then we've destroyed the lives of
so many people down in that valley and their livelihood.
You know, so while working on this pedestrian access, simultaneously we're
working on other issues. You know, some things that are beyond our control as a
County with the health and environment of the valley floor itself. Because we only
own the road.
And for the testifier that was concerned about Waimanu Campers—and then I got
a message from a Charlieoh, okay—one of the attorneys saying about the access
rights, gathering rights, and we're working on that. So with R&D (Department
Research and Development), this working group which is just a wonderful
working group, talked about what are the options for people who have—don't have
a vehicle or way into the valley if they needed to gather food. So we're working
with R&D to see if, you know, we would be able to contract out some type of
shuttle service.
A testifier said, "Hey, we've got to start charging. You know, we have a lot of
tourist. Start charging and make money." It's not about that. What we want to do
is protect the cultural heritage of that valley, to be able to share it for generations to
come. We don't want to over—we don't have over-tourism and kill that cultural
heritage and collapse that road. I mean, we need to take action now to provide
safety not only for the people of the valley, the residents, taro farmers but for the
entire public.
So I'll yield at this time. And I want to hear from my colleagues before I ask for a
postponement. Thank you, Madam Chair.
CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Poindexter, and really providing all of the
background on all of this. Because it's a short bill, and there's a big story behind
it. So with that, I'm going to ask anyone in Kona, any comments, input? Okay,
back in Hilo?
MS. VILLEGAS: Sure. Sorry, we were just looking at each other for who is
going to go first. Okay, sure.
CHR. LEE LOY: Okay. Ms. Villegas?
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MS. VILLEGAS: Yes,please. Thank you. You know, this immediately
brought to mind the organization that worked on Kauai, in H5'ena. After the
flooding there, it was an opportunity for a pause for that area, and they took the
initiative at that time to really put into place the transformative management
practice for that area. That still to this day is fairly mind-blowing what they were
able to accomplish and the model that they were able to put into effect. And I am
hopeful—in fact, they won an international award for what they did and how they
did it, an indigenous peoples award.
And I'm hopeful that as this conversation continues that there may be
opportunities to—I'd love to reach out to reach out to the group. Talk to them
about how they did it, what they did, what did it entailed, and just to how we can
implement better management practices for our areas that tend to be inundated
with visitors whoI mean, who can blame them, Waipi`o Valley is one of the
gems of this island. But how we can actually take steps to follow in their
leadership model for the potential of managing this area. Waipi`o, I've always
held very close to my heart, but have also seen some of the kind of tragic
degradation. Kind of like the tragedy of the Commons, that's when nobody really
knows who's specifically responsible for it.
I also most recently was able to watch a film called Public Trust, and it focused on
Public Trust lands, and having access to open spaces and lands for people to
traverse, explore, and navigate, and the importance of that for all of us. So
navigating our way to a balance I think is going to be the goal.
Thank you, Val, for bringing up this conversation, and also for your sensitivity in
not trying to just rush it through, but for allowing the conversations to continue
around this as we enter a new term in which you will be deeply missed. But I just
wanted to throw that out there as a potential way to collaborate and connect with
what was done on Kauai. And it's been an award-winning and a precedent
setting. And I think there's real opportunity for us to navigate a similar path for
resolutions and solutions for what's happening in Waipi`o. I yield.
CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Anyone else in Kona? Because I
have Mr. Richards.
MS. DAVID: Chair?
CHR. LEE LOY: Oh, go ahead.
MS. DAVID: Chair Lee Loy, this is Council Member David.
CHR. LEE LOY: Oh, go ahead, Ms. David.
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MS. DAVID: Thank you. Mahalo. And I would like to actually also thank
Val Poindexter for raising this issue which has been a long-standing concern of
residents of Waipi`o as well as it is an island-wide issue and concern. And I also
respect the fact that she recognizes—and I thank the testifiers for bringing up
issues that surround the access rights and that sort of thing.
And I think Waipi`o is very special and unique and as much as what its traditional
historic uses were back in the days. And like anything else, the economy, tourism
growth, and just going through the changes in a community, has brought rise to a
lot of the concerns that she raises not only for Waipi`o, but I believe for the entire
Island of Hawaii.
But what I also see, and I think it's very appropriately the timing is appropriate,
is the fact that—the comparison of what is being proposed here. And because
of what has been going on and what we are experiencing now, our beaches,
everywhere on this island, and then the State because of COVID, it was an
awakening moment for me because of the lockdown and stuff that everyone I
think witnesses that our resources, our ocean resources, because of this pandemic
became really alive again without any traffic. And I think it was like a wake-
up call that that if we intend to move forward in this economic, rebuilding
post-COVID, I think we have to do it very differently as far maintaining our
economic growth and the overuse of our resources.
So, Ms. Poindexter, I believe you are on the right path of starting something. I
have no idea what would be the actual solution for this. But I think if this made
everyone aware of what—how valuable preserving our natural and cultural
resources are, especially on this island. I would yes, I do support your intention
of keeping this in committee because I would be very interested in hearing the
other studies and reports that you are awaiting from departments and agencies. So
I thank you for the foresight in holding it back in committee. So with that, I'll
yield. And say mahalo to you again. Aloha.
CHR. LEE LOY: Mahalo nui, Ms. David. Ms. Eoff? Okay with that, I have
Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. And Val, yeah, thanks for bringing the
conversation forward. You're right, I've spent a bunch of time down in that valley
and I know that road quite well. You know, again listening to all sides of the
conversation, there is a very large concern. Interesting, the conversations about the
access points, designation of the road today, trail previously. I've always been
curious about the construction of that road because I cannot imagine walking a
bulldozer down that road, but someone did.
I agree also that being very sensitive to all sides of this. You know, we've talked
story with the taro farmers. You and I have worked on the issues down there, the
whole horse issue, concerns for that, and I hear you with all that. Balancing the
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free access down there, balancing that against the tourism side and the tourism
impact side.
And I appreciate the fact that you want to kind of want to pump the brakes a little
bit on this one, every pun intended, for that road; because it's not quite ready for
primetime yet, but it's close. And I think those conversations going forward, I'm
very happy to participate in them.
The taro farmers are growing down there. And terrific, we don't have enough taro
being raised on this island. And I think we are, I don't know, under 70 acres total
statewide, I think, in lo`i, so there's plenty potential down there. We have to be
sure that people can have the access that they are entitled to getting down there,
but it is private lands.
So there's a lot of work to get done on this. And I'm very, very happy to work on
this because I've—how are we going manage Waipi`o? And what's it going to
look like in 2060, 2070, not just today, not 10 years from now. So I like the fact
that we're having this conversation now. I know ofI think there were three
accidents this last year that happened there; thankfully, no fatalities. But that
heightens our concern.
And it is a County road. It's kind of funny to get down to the back to the valley
and you see "End of County road." You don't expect to see a sign like that. But to
the point we have a liability thing as the County road that we have to be mindful
of. And I know when I've seen people jump over those guardrails when I'm
driving up, I'm going, "Whoa, don't take any steps backwards because it drops."
So, more work is needed here. I know you're stepping away, but I'm very happy
to help pick this up and keep this conversation going. And I was actually trying to
look at a map to see if Waipi`o is District 1 or District 9. I'm not sure what it is. It
is District 1, okay.
So anyway, I appreciate you bringing the conversation forward, and we do have a
lot of work to do, but people are at the table now. That's what we need to get
done. Chair, I yield.
CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Kierkiewicz, please.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Thanks, Val, for putting this forward.
Waipi`o is a special place. I mean, it's not just a destination or a community
resource. It really is a treasure because of its cultural significance. I mean,
Kamehameha, you know, he grew up there, and he would bring his warriors after
battle to refresh and rejuvenate; and because of that, I think we have to be really
heightened and sensitive in how we proceed.
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I appreciate you bringing this forward. Some folks, friends of mine that are part of
Pohaha I Ka Lani, one of the board members reached out. They do see an issue
with folks just trespassing and doing things as you described on private land. That
I don't want to really get into publicly because they're just unsavory acts. It's
incredible that people behave in that way, and it's sad because it is a place of
cultural significance.
So I just wonder with a bill like this, because there are mixed feelings about it, you
know, is there any discussion around supporting the upper rimlands? Because that
is a place where folks are beginning to remove gates, traverseI mean, there was a
massive party there during Labor Day weekend. There's dumping of illegal
vehicles. So there's just a lot of, I think, issues that I don't know if our community
groups are prepared to deal with should something like this pass. Again, they like
the idea of it, but at the same time, you know, what is the holistic strategy to deal
with the impacts of something like this? So,just some food for thought.
I think a management plan similar to what Kauai has done in H5'ena is something
really interesting to explore. And we've got to get community in the driver seat on
this, you know, stewarding the land.
I was reading through some of the testimony, and something interesting I saw was
from Dr. Ku Kahakalau (see Comm. 1130.13), and she put for the idea of some
kind of amendment to ensure that folks that are accessing the valley for
educational purposes, and that's what Pohaha I Ka Lani does, that they be exempt
from this. So I hope that's going to be part of the discussion and maybe an
amendment to the bill. I certainly want to make sure our local kids, right, our local
residents are able to access the lo`i so that they can be educated, they can be
empowered, and also access being in the land because being out there is truly like
medicine. You know, you don't have to manipulate nature. It's just beautiful as
is.
And so, I just wanted to share that mana`o. Thanks for bringing the conversation
forward. And I'm really excited to see how this kind of unfolds. Chair, I yield.
CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Val, I think this is good
that you brought this forward. You're balancing a few different things; you know,
stewardship, public safety, and public access. I spoke to one of the testifiers last
night. I had nice discussion with them, and we touched on different things, you
know, what was to be accomplished by this, but also how to provide access,
because Waipi`o Valley is a special place and a lot of people want to visit it. I
think really the intent was to block pedestrian access. And a lot of local people go
there, but I think most local people go there with a truck and they're ready to get
down to the valley via a vehicle. So that was something I was thinking about.
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But two different things within our County really touched on this, which is the
Hawaii Strategic Tourism Plan as well as the `Rina Aloha values. Not too many
weeks ago we got an email regarding reopening, and the email was, I mean, the
content really touched on ho`okipa, which is sharing a kuleana between host and
visitors. And I think that can be easily applied to this situation because this is
where we have more of a want from our community to express and teach, and for
visitors to understand what's happening and to understand the place that they're
visiting. I think that word represents, it's just a good way of looking at this
situation, where the Waipi`o community is trying to take a little bit of control of
what's happening there, and I appreciate that.
And I've been working with a couple different groups here, in Puna and in Hilo,
regarding the same thing. This has really been an outcome of COVID, where you
have the community wanting to take more control over what's happening in their
community, have places that are special to everyone, but finding a way of having
more input in what's happening, and not just being at the whim of tourism, you
know, these outside input.
So I really appreciate what you're trying to do here, and I'll support this. I look
forward to seeing what happens going forward. And I'm sorry you won't be here
for the grand finale, but just I think this is a good thing that you're doing here.
So mahalo for bringing this forward.
And just to share a story. I think this is to me this explains the significance of
Waipi`o Valley. I went surfing there about maybe seven, eight years ago. We
went down early in the morning, and we caught—the morning session was
beautiful. At about 9:00 or 10:00 o'clock we were leaving. As we came up the
dirt road, in the middle of the dirt road, underneath the mango trees, was a donkey
and a hawk sitting in the middle of the road. I couldn't believe it. It's kind of
unbelievable to see the two different animals sitting in the middle of the road, and
they both just sat there. They didn't move. Even as we got within 10, 20 feet, and
we stopped the truck and we're staring at them, and they just stared at us. And
then the hawk flew up into the tree, the donkey walked off of the road, and then we
proceeded. And it was just—that valley has such a special significance, and it's
very protected, spiritual. I mean it touches on everything. So whatever we can do
to help preserve that, because you can't—you're not going to find that feeling that
specialness in many places anymore.
So what you're doing is good. So I appreciate it, and you have my support. And
mahalo for bringing this forward.
MS. POINDEXTER: Thanks.
CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. Ms. Poindexter.
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MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, and I'd like to say, yeah, Tim, definitely going to
include you on this group that we meet monthly, you know, because you've been
involved already with a lot of issues down in Waipi`o.
I'd also like to say that when we talk about the importance of Waipi`o, when you
read history and look at I took Hawaii politics in college, and Waipi`o was
where Hawaii politics began. Because Umi-a-Liloa, who was conceived in
O`okala, in the stream, in O`okala, went to find his father Chief Liloa in Waipi`o.
Because when his mother gave birth to Umi-a-Liloa, it was told by the Chief that if
it is a boy, send him to me. So that's what happened.
And if we know the history of Umi-a-Liloa throughout the Hawaii Island, but
especially on the Hamakua Coast, he was the one who created the ahapua`a
system. And his mode of governanceI remember in college I had to choose
who would you want to be like, and I said, "Umi-a-Liloa." Because his mode
of governance was that the people actually ruled. He just did what was right by
the people. He created the ahupua`a system because he knew that from the
mountain to the sea we needed to survive in communities in that way, because of
the waterways, yeah, and the survival. He was smart. The guy was brilliant,
right. And even Kamehameha, he wanted to be—and wanted to rule a lot like
Umi-a-Liloa did. So when we talk about the history, it is unbelievable what
happened in Waipi`o. There's so much more. But I just wanted to say when we
talk about Hawaii politics, that's where it started. It was in Waipi`o Valley.
And to all of the residents and taro farmers, you know, my loyalties lie first with
you, because this is your livelihood and I know what you're trying to protect. And
to all of us visitors who don't farm there or who don't live there, you know, I ask
that we all respect their views. And I ask that they also respect our concerns and
us giving input to what can make it a great place to share but not to destroy it. And
right now it's being destroyed because of the people coming into the valley and
just I hate to say this because it just sounds terrible, urinating and defecating all
over. And we need to care for that valley because the valley will care for us, and it
has for many, many, many years.
So I'll yield at this time. And thank you, Madam Chair, for allowing this to come
on to this committee.
CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Poindexter. Anyone else? Chair Chung?
MR. CHUNG: Did everybody talk?
CHR. LEE LOY: Yes.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, sorry I came in late, yeah. But I could see the passion that
was being demonstrated by Val on this thing. I know it's a tough issue because
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there are some people who object. But I also do know you put in a lot of time; you
know, meeting with the community and getting pulse for what was going on.
I think this really requires a broader discussion. You know, you guys talked about
the historical significance of Waipi`o Valley; so very important to all of us, and I
think we all know that.
I know it's a place where people like to go and recreate, right? It's very important
for the tourist industry, too. But at some point we're going to have to decide
whether, you know, how important that is as a historical area, and maybe just
restrict the access to that place. And maybe you go by permit. You allow certain
amount of people to go, you know,per month,per year, or whatever it is. I don't
know how you're going to regulate that, but you cannot just let people go
unfettered. It's a broader—it's a bigger discussion than whether it's safe for
pedestrians or not. It comes down to, you know, what can that valley sustain,
really, and what's fair. You know, what kind of balance do we want to strike?
But I do recognize the work the work that you put into this, Val. Thank you very
much.
CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair Chung. You know, with that, Ms. Poindexter,
absolutely, I support all the hard work that's gone into it. It's not an easy solution.
And we had one testifier talk about stew, right? And sometimes when you've got
to make stew, got to cut up the vegetables and shake it up a lit bit. But with that, I
know you want to put up another motion?
Vote on Motion Ms. Poindexter moved to postpone Bill 217 to
to Postpone: November 17, 2020. Seconded by Mr. Richards and
(Approved) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Poindexter,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Lee Loy –9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
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