HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN AWEEMC 2020/11/05 2018-2020 Committee on Agriculture, Water, Energy,
and Environmental Management
21st Session
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawai i
November 5, 2020
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Agriculture, Water, Energy,
ORDER: and Environmental Management was called to order at 1:02 p.m., in the
Council Chambers, Hilo, by Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair
Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member
Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member (via videoconference from Kona)
Ms. Karen Eoff, Member (via videoconference from Kona)
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
Ms. Valerie T. Poindexter, Member (came in later)
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (via videoconference from Kona)
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.)
CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. Moving on to Communications,
Communication 1133, please.
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
AWEEMC-21 November 5,2020
Comm. 1133: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION BY REPRESENTATIVES OF HAWAIIAN
ELECTRIC LIGHT COMPANY REGARDING GRID STATUS RENEWABLE
PROJECTS AND THE GOAL OF CONVERSION TO RENEWABLES BY
2045
From Council Member Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, dated September 15,
2020.
;and
Comm. 1133.1: From Council Member Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, dated October 22, 2020,
transmitting a PowerPoint presentation.
Motion to Close File: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to close file on Comm. 1133.
Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR. RICHARDS: Now I understand we do have Ms. Sharon Suzuki and
Kevin Waltjen on WebEx. Thank you, can we bring them on the screen? Is that
how that works? Also I do want to recognize that Councilman Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder and Council Woman Poindexter has joined us. Sharon, can you hear
us? Kevin can you hear us? And I'm going to ask HELCO-Zelko to come to the
table, please.
(Note: At this time Director of Governmental and Community Relations
Jennifer Zelko-Schleuter came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
MS. SUZUKI: Can we do a sound check, can you hear me? This is
Sharon Suzuki.
CHR. RICHARDS: Jen, you are here in Chambers, so I'm going to turn this over
to you. First of all I'd like to welcome, Sharon thanks so much for being here.
Kevin also thank you so much for being here. And Jenny thanks again for being
here and being in chambers. Before us I requested a presentation by Hawaiian
Electric to give us an update on where we are with our power grid and our
projects coming forward. And I thought it was a good time. We're setting a new
stage, we have a new Administration coming I, coming through a pretty tough
economic time. So with that, I'm going to turn this over to you Jenny Zelko, and
please go ahead.
(Note: At this time Director of Governmental and Community Relations
Jennifer Zelko-Schleuter came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
MS. ZELKO-SCHLEUTER: Thanks, Tim. Sharon actually was going to start off
this presentation, but there may be some technical difficulties.
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AWEEMC-21 November 5,2020
MS. SUZUKI: Hey Jen, can you folks hear me?
MS. ZELKO-SCHLEUTER: We can hear you.
MS. SUZUKI: I got use to the audio.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLEUTER: Yes.
MS SUZUKI: Why don't I just start, and maybe the video will come on later.
But I'll open then Jen, if that's okay?
MS. ZELKO-SCHLEUTER: That's great.
MS. SUZUKI: Okay. Good afternoon Chair Richards, Vice Chair Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder and members of the Agriculture, Water, Energy, and Environmental
Management Committee. I'm Sharon Suzuki, Hawaiian Electric President of
Maui County and Hawaii Island Utilities. I'm joined here by Kevin Wahjen
who's our Director of Hawaii Island. And Jennifer Zelko-Schleuter our Director
of Government& Community Affairs. Thank you again for the invitation to
provide you an update on what we're doing on Hawaii Island. Thank you also
for arranging for us to participate via WebEx.
So what we plan to do today is to provide a brief formal presentation that covers
what we're doing to serve your community, updates on renewable energy, and
updates on our partnership in the community. We'll then open it up to questions
from you. Next slide please. Is the slide-show up, Jen?
MS. ZELKO-SCHLEUTER: I see it on the screen.
CHR. RICHARDS: Hang on. Yeah, we have a copy for the public.
MS. SUZUKI: Okay, I'll pause, let me know when you're ready.
CHR. RICHARDS: Yeah, thanks Sharon. Hang on we're trying to catch up
technology. Shall we take a recess? Okay, we'll be in recess, let's say five
minutes.
Recess: At 1:08 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 1:11 p.m.
CHR. RICHARDS: So I'm going to turn this back over, and you don't have to
put your mask on when you're talking, okay. Turn it back over to
HELCO-Zelco, and take it away.
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MS. ZELKO-SCHLEUTER: Thanks, Chair Richards. With that, actually Sharon
and Kevin, I don't know, can you hear us okay? We have the slides up on our
side.
MS. SUZUKI: Okay, do you want me to start from the beginning again?
MS. ZELKO-SCHLEUTER: No, I think just where you were.
MS. SUZUKI: Okay, can you please advance to the next slide.
(Note: At this time, Ms. Sharon Suzuki, Mr. Kevin Waltjen, and
Ms. Jennifer Zelko-Schleuter provided a PowerPoint presentation to the
members of the Committee. For viewing of the presentation, see the DVD
copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office. A copy of
the PowerPoint presentation is made a part of the record, see
Comm. 1133.1.)
MS. ZELKO-SCHLEUTER: And with that, I think we're all ready for questions,
that Kevin or Sharon, are super excited to answer.
CHR. RICHARDS: Thanks, Jenny. I'm sure they're totally excited. So with that
I'm going to open up the floor to Council Members, for any questions concerning
our power grid here on Hawaii Island. I'm seeing no lights on here in the Hilo
chamber. Kona do you have any questions?
MS. VILLEGAS: Yes, please.
CHR. RICHARDS: Go ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: Great. Thank you so much, for this great presentation. I'm
going to just ask a couple of questions if I could about the map that's on page
nine. And my apologies, it was really difficult to make out the presentations from
those tuning in from WebEx. So if you've already mentioned this, my apologies
for re-asking the question. In this map related to Hamakua energy, there is a little
insignia that I guess it looks like a leaf. But I'm not quite sure, I didn't see that
same icon listed on the side on the right as a source of energy.
MR. WALTJEN: I can answer your question on that. This is Kevin Waltjen.
That's a great question
MS. VILLEGAS: Can you just try and get closer to your speaker?
MR. WALTJEN: Okay, how's this, can you hear me now?
MS. VILLEGAS: That's a little better, yes. Thank you.
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MR. WALTJEN: Okay. So very perceptive that leaf on there, which we didn't
have in our legend is actually the biofuel component I referred to in my opening
on the renewable energy that we have on island. Right now, Hamakua energy
uses biofuel as part of their fuel source. So in certain points and time, when
they're using the biofuel it helps with the renewable energy component. And it's
not a huge amount, but it still helps. Any little that you use within Hawaii as far
as biofuel, and it actually stays in Hawaii. you know, it moves towards
de-linking or getting off of fossil fuel.
MS. VILLEGAS: Great. So when you say biofuel, what would be your specific
definition, for that biofuel?
MR. WALTJEN: So biofuel is, they're getting it from a facility in industrial park
in Kea`au. And then Sharon can probably tell the name better than I can because
I don't have that name on me right now. But they basically create the biofuel and
they ship it to Hamakua energy partners, and they use that as part of their fuel
mix. Go ahead Sharon, you can tell them.
MS. SUZUKI: Sure,the company's name is Pacific Biodiesel.
MS. VILLEGAS: Great, thank you. That's what I was
MS. SUZUKI: They started on Maui. They have their refinery on Hawaii
Island.
MS. VILLEGAS: Got you, I'm very familiar with Pacific Biodiesel. Thank you
so much for helping clarify on that. Just a couple other—when looking at the
Waimea Plant, I don't see an icon next to it. What's that one run off of?
MR. WALTJEN: The Waimea Plant is our diesel generators.
MS. VILLEGAS: So it's oil essentially.
MR. WALTJEN: Yeah oil, correct.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, great. And then for the steam plants at Kanoelehua and
Puna Steam?
MR. WALTJEN: They're fuel. So their fuel is industrial fuel oil, thicker crude,
but it's still oil based.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Got you, thank you. I just didn't see the icon, and I just
wanted to confirm. And then I also note Hu Honua on here with TBD (To Be
Determined), so I just thought that was interesting. I just have a couple of
questions. As we look at the Wailuku River project coming online as a proposed
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hydro power plant, I wondered what steps are still needed to secure long-term
lease of water from the state.
MR. WALTJEN: I can try answer that one as well. So right now with the
Wailuku River hydro project—so there's several hydro plants along Wailuku
River Hydro. So there's Wailuku River Hydro, which we have a contract with
them and they're running. They're about a ten megawatt plant. We also have
Waiau Hydro, which is our plant. And Pu`u`eo, which is our plant. So right now
we have on our two plants Waiau and Pu`u`eo, a month to month revocable lease.
On the Wailuku River Hydro Plant, they actually have a long-term lease with the
state. And they have a contract with Wailuku River Hydro.
So to answer your question, your next part of the question which was the
long-term lease. We are currently working with the state, DLNR (Department of
Land and Natural Resources) to negotiate a long-term lease. With that being said,
you know, that process has many steps in order to come to fruition. So any
support that we get from Council as well as state, you know, it helps with us
trying to get through this 100 percent renewable. Like I said on this map, that we
had showed on page nine, and thank you for pulling that map up, and asking your
questions, it helps with the support when we get the support on these different
agencies. And right now we're in the middle of negotiating that long-term lease.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, that's super helpful. Do you have or has HECO
(Hawaiian Electric Company) made an offer of a price to the state or what the rent
may be?
MR. WALTJEN: As of right now, we've been having meetings. And I would
say or meetings are anywhere from—every month we get together with DLNR,
and we kind of talk through the different processes that has to happen. So the last
few months we've been kind of laying out possible prices, and possible options
for them to consider. But the process itself still requires them to secure an
appraiser. Once we kind of go through these pieces secure the appraiser, and then
utilize the information to kind of come back with an appraisal value. Once that
appraisal value comes back, the law itself requires public auction. So they would
then conduct the public auction piece. And then, once you get through all those
kind of pieces, and they get the Board of Land and Natural Resources to approve
then we can kind of secure down, and finalize the lease between us and the state.
So like I said, it's a process. We wish everything could move faster, and we
would get lower cost quicker. But you know, with all that being said, the state
has been very good partners in this process. In helping us to understand what
requirements they've got to look at, what things they have to insure that when
they go through this negotiation, when they go through this discussion,
(inaudible) discussion, they meet all their requirements by law.
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MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, thank you. Just a couple more questions. I was
wondering if you could explain to the Council, how the water license revenue is
supposed to benefit the state in general, and Native Hawaiians.
MR. WALTJEN: Okay, that's a tougher question. And the reason why I say it's
a tougher question, is because for us as a user of the water and the manager of the
plant we don't have control over how does it manage, or how does it translate on
the state side. But what happens isI can tell you this much, is that there's
components within this lease, or part of the lease or part of the discussion, which
also looks at the watershed management piece. Anyway, on the water shed
management is, anytime the water runs off of the adjacent land then comes back
into the river, it does do certain things to the river. So some of that is part of the
discussion. How do help with the watershed management? How the state ends
up using the water lease component, that's probably a question you would have to
ask DLNR separate, if that makes sense.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, thanks. Because something that was recently brought to
my attention is that, according to the Hawaii State Constitution Article 12
Section 1, in part, it says that, "Thirty percent of the state receipts derived from
the leasing of cultivated sugarcane lands under any provision of law or from water
licenses shall be transferred to Native Hawaiian Rehabilitation Fund, Section 213
of the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act, 1920, for the purposes enumerated in
that section." So in just taking a look at this, while this doesn't directlyI mean
this is what—it's the state's responsibility to then funnel the funds from leasing or
the agreements made about using this water. I'm totally pro hydro power, I'm
really excited to see these platforms and this map and these opportunities. I'm not
so pleased about Hu Honua. But hydro power is really fantastic. But as we look
atI did a little bit of a,just a little bit of research. And I just really want to
encourage as HECO offering the price, and as you negotiate this, that it's taken
into consideration what 30 percent of those funds are supposed to go back to
Hawaiian Homes. And in that capacity, I think it's very important that price
that's being paid is indicative, or benefitting people in the best capacity.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: And this is Jen, if I could just add, appreciate those
comments. And one of the things we are also in discussion with DHHL
(Department of Hawaiian Homes Land) about these leases since the constitution
as you mentioned does require the 30 percent back to DHHL, so really is kind of
balancing the benefit to the beneficiaries cost to customers, and then the
renewable energy. And so those are all things that we are definitely looking at, so
really appreciate you bringing that up.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you Jennifer, I really appreciate that as well. Because
the number I had heard bounced around was one one-thousandth of a dollar per
kilowatt hour, making it one-tenth of a cent per kilowatt hour. And 30 percent of
that doesn't come up to a whole lot, when transitioning to Hawaiian Homes. So
just as we look at that broader—when we look at it historically for so many things
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on our islands, you know, vast amounts of property we lease for a dollar for
65 years. I just really want to make sure that we are not perpetuating those cycles,
and we make sure those resources return to and support our host culture and the
people. So thank you for taking that into consideration, and allowing me to ask
these questions this afternoon. I yield.
CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you. Any other questions fromoh, I'm going to
come back to Hilo. I have Matt, go ahead, please.
MR. KANEALI'I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Hi guys, thank you for
being here today. Good to see you again. Thank you for the presentation.
Question on the presentation, do the current renewable energy numbers at about
35 percent, does that include all of the projects that are on your list, including like
Hu Honua and the Kona solar projects coming in. Or is that the 70 percent you're
looking at in 2030?
MR. WALTJEN: Thanks, that's a great question. The 70 percent does not
include the Hu Honua project, but it does include the PGV (Puna Geothermal
Ventures), AES (AES Waikoloa Solar, LLC), Puako Solar, and the Kuawehi solar
projects. So with that being said, and that's why that is a great question because
should something happen, because, you know, we're all in transition right now
with COVID and the impact with what's happening with COVID. And the
support that's needed from the community, as well as our government officials.
All those pieces are very important for these projects going forward.
But with that being said, you know, if you look at PGV, prior to PGV going
offline back in 2018, at that time we were at 57 percent with PGV, 56.7 percent,
57 percent round up. With PGV coming back, right, after the fact we can expect
that number to kind of go up, you know, in a full-year time because you got to
look at all the kilowatt hours being generated in a full-year time. So this year you
won't see it as drastic change, but next year it will be a drastic change just
because of the amount of kilowatts hours are generated. So we expect to be, you
know, within the 60 percentile, the lower 60 percentile once PGV comes back and
starts operating at full capacity. But great question, because the solar will
contribute, the various solar projects along that line will contribute. And as the
last question we're dealing with hydro. Hydro also helps, you know, every part of
it helps.
MR. KANEALI'I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, for that answer. So I think—as
Sharon and I met in Maui to walk one of the solar system there. And it has
beautiful system. Coming from the industry too, I mean I did this for 10 years, so
I always appreciate seeing a nice solar system. But we talked about in Maui, was
energy curtailing. So as you start hitting higher amounts of solar penetration on
your grid, is there the opportunity for curtailing? May be not opportunity being a
good word. Will there be curtailing going on during the daytime, and if so what
are you going to be doing with that curtailed energy?
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MR. WALTJEN: That's a beautiful question. I'll try to attack it first, and then
I'll let Sharon jump in and Jen jump in, to kind of save me as I go through this
answer. But let's try this way first. So as you start to gain more energy, if your
energy exceeds the amount of load, doesn't matter if it's solar, wind, hydro,
geothermal, any energy that comes into the system, when your energy starts to
exceed the amount of loads you have there's a potential to curtail that energy,
right. So the idea behind it is to—when you look at some of these solar projects
when they came in, they came in with battery energy storage systems. Which
then allows us to store some of that energy, and then shift it to other times when
there is no solar on the system. But yet you can utilize it, to feed the load.
So those things are some of the things that are being taken into consideration,
enhanced with our RFP-1 and RFP-2, right? Which you kind of briefly touched
upon. They kind of put in there to be both renewable energy sources and storage,
or storage by itself. And they did that because they knew as you start to get more
and more renewable energy, you would need these types of energy storage
systems to help take in that energy from those various different resources, and
then put it to where you don't have the energy sometimes throughout the night.
Because like you said, with all the solar coming in—and I had mentioned the 100
megawatts on residential. It's starting to see, and show that kind of thing. So
that's the first part of your question.
The second part of your question was what kind of things can we do with you
once it's in the system if you have to curtail, right? So like anything else as we
start to look at the various different things, and we're kind of looking at hydrogen
as one of those things to kind of look at how do we accommodate hydrogen in our
system, where does it fit within our system with the current type of generation
that we have, and where does it become reasonable? Because as you know, and
I'm pretty sure most of you know some things about hydrogen one way or the
other. Hydrogen has been coming up, and (inaudible) the hydrogen process. It
does allow for energy usage, which does create another option for fitting it into
our mix of load with the changing generation as we move forward. I hope I kind
of answered. I'll let Jen or Sharon jump in, if I missed anything.
MR. KANEALI'I-KLEINFELDER: I think you did a good job. Sharon you have
anything to add?
MS. SUZUKI: No, I thought he did a good job, too. The only thing to add is of
course, you know, he already talked about electric fication of transportation, or Jen
did, right. So we're looking at both right? It's not either or, but multiple
solutions. Because to the extent that there's an increase in energy use especially
say in the middle of the day, like we have some EB (Extended Benefits) time of
use rates that are lower in the middle of the day to encourage charging, and up-
taking advantage, right, of the abundance of PV (Photovoltaic) energy available.
Then I think it helps to reduce that curtailment potential. That's all I wanted to
add.
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MR. KANEALI'I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you, Sharon. Yeah, I'd love
to see that energy going to good use. And remind me, if I remember correctly it's
either HELCO who orders hydrogen already. Because you use it in your turbines
to decrease windage. Is that right?
MR. WALTJEN: Yes, you're correct. We are using hydrogen for the windage
component, and basically it's because hydrogen causes less resistance than air.
So your very akamai, in the fact of how that works. But I don't know if we're the
biggest inputter of hydrogen, but we're one of the ones that import hydrogen from
Honolulu. And Honolulu also uses hydrogen in some of their plants.
MR. KANEALI'I-KLEINFELDER: Almost be in your best interest to start
producing hydrogen with curtailed energy as you get down the line. I have couple
more questions. I appreciate that you're decoupling your price from fossil fuel,
regarding PGV. I guess the bigger question is, are residents going to see
decreases in their bill as we start to hit more and more renewable energy? And
we start to decouple old agreements that weren't really serving the community as
well as they should have. I mean can we expect, because that's really the big
question to me is can we see a price drop as we hit higher renewable energy
amounts in a grid?
MR. WALTJEN: So that one is a tougher question. And I'll take a stab at it first,
okay, and then anybody jump in and add. So the first thing is, couple things that
you got to look at and you framed that question very well. Because even for us,
we're constantly wanting to lower the cost of energy for our customers. We're
constantly looking for better pricing. To the point where in the last eight years
we've reached out to our various different contracts, and asked them to see if they
would want to delink some fossil fuel and renegotiate parts of the contract. Some
were excited to do so, some was not so much, yeah. But with that being said, you
bring up the point, right. We're adding more and more renewable energy type
contracts.
So such things like our RFP phase one, and our RFP phase two, have been
showing that we can negotiate lower cents per kilowatt hour from these facilities.
And I'll give you an example, right. We'll look at AES which is that eight cents
per kilowatt hour, and Kuawehi Solar which is nine cents per kilowatt hour. It's
not the lowest you could see, but it's actually starting down the path. Because
you've got to remember AES and Kuawehi came in, in 2018. The contract
negotiation team piece and the new ones that are coming up, the PUC (Public
Utility Commission) has already set standards to kind of frame it to the point
where they're wanting to see energy cost coming down in four to five cents per
kilowatt hour price ranges. Now once you start to get into those, and the other
contracts start to negotiate lower prices. We're heading in the right direction. It's
just how much does it improve the bill, how much change? That kind of stuff
we've got to evaluate as it comes up.
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MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: And then I think just to add, because Kevin that
was a very good answer, I think we really want to focus on stabilizing cost, so that
it doesn't go up and down and people can kind of plan their bills and, you know,
over the year. I like to joke, but I think there's some truth in it that we were in the
game of renewable energy early on when it was required that when you did these
contracts. And I think you're aware of that, that we had to link it to the cost of
fuel. And so these newer ones aren't like that. But we really would like to focus
on stabilizing so people can make their plans and do their budget. I think that's a
big part of it.
MR. KANEALI'I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, I mean you talked earlier about, you
know, different foundations and community organizations that are looking at
trying to help people. And if you really break it all down, the cost of living is
huge. And we don't need to kind to beat around the bush, electricity is expensive
here. And by right we live on an island, and everything is brought in. So I love
the direction, but I think for the people that's a big one. Can we help our
communities by decreasing the cost of living, electricity being one of the main
bills we all pay, whether you're a business or a small family. Thank you for the
answer, good answer. I know you're saying probably harder to answer, but you
know, I appreciate the thought.
Any thought towards title energy? Being that we live on an island, we're
surrounded by an ocean. And a lot of other countries are starting to implement
title energy. I'm just wondering if you're in for discussing that, if that's any
upcoming project of pilot projects that you're looking at?
MS. SUZUKI: I guess I'll start then Kevin. You know, in the past the Hawaiian
Electric Companies have looked at pilot projects. And on Maui, I think we even
worked with a developer way back when, right, on wave energy technology. The
interconnection from off the island, right, to the island was very expensive and
cost prohibitive. And their prototype was damaged in a storm down in Australia.
So I think it became more developmental. So what we've done recently in
conjunction with PUC Directives, is to go through a competitive bidding process
where we're trying to find what the market bears. We're not necessarily only tied
to solar and battery. But if the market presents itself and it's a competitive price
that's what we're looking for. Because to address your earlier question, right.
We know our communities and our customers want lower bills, and we're trying
to do our part.
MR. KANEALI'I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you, Sharon. So maybe, it
sounds like a maybe, we got something floating out there. I like that. Okay, well
again, coming from the industry when I first started, you know HELCO was kind
of almost like a nemesis for solar companies. That's what I get from some of our
customers, but as I went through the years of working there doing solar. I really
came to think of—and it was kind of engrained to me that HELCO is actually the
best generator that you can buy. And I've said that to Jen in our interview, and
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you really are. And that's one of the base cost of your company, is that you guys
provide energy 24 hours a day seven days a week. To every customer on this
island, and every household, every business. Without you we'd have a lot of
warm beer, and hot food. So I appreciate what you guys do. I look forward to
seeing, you know, new projects, I'm very tied to renewable energy. And I
appreciate your time today. Mahalo.
CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Matt. I'm going to go back to Kona, is there any
other questions coming from Kona side.
MS. DAVID: No, Chair. Thank you.
CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. Thank you. Over here I have Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Great to see you Jen. Hi Kevin, Hi
Sharon, nice to see you again. Thank you for all of your support for community,
not just the emergency assistance that you guys have been providing. But what
you're doing to help insure that folks still have the ability to turn their lights on,
you know, no late fees no service disconnections. So really appreciate this
support during this really tough time. You know, I have to say when I heard the
words fair, equable inclusive, that's a really big deal for the utility. I mean prior
to being on the Council having worked in the communication and outreach, and
having worked on a number of renewable energy projects. It wasn't the tactic, of
the utility at that point. And so it's so amazing to see how in such a short span of
time, there's been this huge cultural paradigm shift within the utility to really
embrace and partner with community and come up with solutions that work for
the people that are going to be impacted. So thank you. I think it's just worth
saying that.
A couple of questions. They weren't really part of your presentation, so I hope
I'm okay, to veer off script. I'm just curious about work to modernize the grid.
It's just an antiquated system, not super flexible, so just wondering if there's an
update you guys can provide on that front.
MR. WALTJEN: Yeah, I'll take a stab first. And then Sharon can jump in, and
Jen can jump in to kind of correct pieces that I miss or add. So that's a good
question. I mean you know, we're constantly trying to look at how do you
improve the way we serve and the way our system serves, right? So when you
say modernize the grid, that kind of touches like a whole bunch of different
aspects of the utility itself. And the reason why I say that is, because you can
modernize a substation. And a substation for us is a place where energy comes in
as one voltage, and we distribute that voltage out and energy out to a different
type of voltage, right. That substation does that job for us.
In there we have been upgrading the protection, the way things run, how we
connect, what we see over the years and we have constantly done those things.
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So those parts of it still work, really well. Some of the other modernization things
that we can talk about is when you get to the end-user customer and how we see
or how we that information or how they get information back from us. Those
things is part of the modernization grids that we are kind of looking at now. How
do we get to that point? What do we do in order to implement something like
that? That helps our customer get real time information, and helps us get real
time information. Without and here we go back to something that Matt had talked
about earlier, which was how do you keep the cost of the bill, or cost of energy or
cost of the service down? So part of that discussion when we start talking about
that part of grid modernization at the end user part. How do we do that?
Implement the communication piece is going to cost some money, and not blow
up so much that it then makes the bill too expensive to pay.
So good question, and I'm probably not answering it exactly the way you wanted,
but I can say this, we have plans to help stop that part of it which is the end user,
which is implementing some kind of AMI (Advanced Metering Infrastructure)
that allows communication to the utility, and the utility to the customer to make
some decisions. And that moving forward. But again, we're looking at what is
the best way to do it without increasing the cost to the customer to point where
they can't afford it.
That's one. The other part to that is as far as our substation and our different
facilities that interconnect those pieces in, we've been constantly upgrading over
the years, because it's within our control, it's within our means to change the
older type equipment; equipment that was put in the 60's, and now they're
actually in the 2000, right. We'd been constantly doing those. I hope I'm kind of
getting it, and Sharon or Jen please add in all the things that I missed.
MS. SUZUKI: I think that was good. A couple things. A lot of times we're
replacing our poles with more resilient, stronger, larger poles to fair the weather
right, or our storm situation. And also on the technical side, I call them smart
devices, I'm not an engineer. But like for example can communicate where the
fault on the grid is directly to our control room, so the response to restore power is
quicker. Okay Jen, now we're already at two o'clock.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Sharon, you actually, touched on the next question that I
wanted to ask, which was, you know, what exactly is the utility keeping in mind
as it comes to climate change? I mean Hawaii Island has been hit with a number
of disasters in recent years, and with climate change we're going to just see more
intensity and frequency of different storms and other weather patterns. So I'm
just curious how are you keeping this challenge in mind, and insuring that all of
our infrastructure and services are resilient and that we're able to really bounce
forward, and insure people are connected specifically in times of disaster when
they need to be kind of connected to each other, and to resources most.
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MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Well I can start with that one. I think one of the
things that you know I'm extremely proud of is the vegetation management that
Hawaiian Electric does in probably all of your districts. But that's been really
important, and you saw what happened in Tropical Storm Iselle in Puna. And you
know, as we look at the wildfires on the mainland, you know, you can see the
devastation. So vegetation management is one of those things. And Kevin may
be able to speak to this better, but I think there was an earthquake in 2006. Am I
right about that? And it was after that, that there was a lot of hardening of the
system back then. But Kevin I'll let you take that,because I was in high school in
2006.
MR. WALTJEN: So Jen brings it up and she described it really well. But yes, in
2006 we had an earthquake, and we actually went through a large outage due to
operations around the system activating due to the shaking of the earthquake. So
after that we did a study and we did upgrade, and change protections and field
holders and pieces of equipment throughout the system that contributed to the
larger outage. Once we went through that, and we actually had to file a work
report with the Public Utility Commission as well. Once we went through that,
we had an earthquake in 2014 that when it shook we didn't lose the system the
same way. And it was actually strong enough, that it matched the 2006
earthquake. So that showed that all the improvement that we did within the
system, withstood the earthquake condition.
So you know, going back to what you had said about, with the changing
environment and all the environmental things that's happening. You know, we
see it, we hear it on the news, we see more storms, stronger storms, all these
things are happening. And how you attribute it one way or the other, for us as a
utility, once we get something that happens we start to try to look at what was the
root cause, and then we try to improve it to the point where it can withstand the
next evolution of that type of event. So we seen it in Iselle, and Jen touched upon
it very well. That you know, we had all the albizia trees that came down during
that storm that kind of impacted. And then the county and the state got together,
and then had that albizia trees mitigation group that kind of worked on a plan to
kind of reduce the albizia tree impact.
So going back to what Jen had said, you know, that part has been working really
well. Is it perfect? I would say it's not perfect. There's ways we can always
improve. The good thing is, we do improve. And with support from you folks,
support from the community, things that people bring up, information,
stakeholders, the collaboration. I think that is what makes it possible for us to get
better. So you know,that's the only thing I could say, is that to answer your
second question on what are we doing? We're always kind of listening, we're
always kind of watching what comes of it and we take those pieces to heart and
we try to look for improvement.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks, Kevin. Thanks you all for your time. It's great to
see you. Chair, I appreciate you bringing this forward. I yield.
CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you. Looking around our chambers, I don't see any
more lights on. Kona, I'll check with you one more time. Do we have any
questions?
MS. EOFF: No,thank you. And thank you very much, for the presentation.
CHR. RICHARDS: Alright. So with that, I'll bring it back to myself and we'll
close this out. First of Kevin this is probably maybe questions for you,just
touching on some things. If I recall right, we are Big Island grid is about a
200 megawatt grid. What projections are we looking to go to 2045, and if we're
supposed to be 100 percent renewable by then how are we planning for that?
MR. WALTJEN: So that one there is even a tougher question, Tim. Because I
don't have the data in front of me, I don't want to give you the wrong data. But I
will—what I can do is I can look that up for you and back to you. Because we did
do a study on our power supply improvement quote "plan"that actually lifted
what generation mixes we would have going all the way out to 2045, and what
that load requirement was going to be. So everything we plan is what we do,
we're always constantly looking at what the next 10 years is going to look like.
But in that plan we had to project out further. So I don't want to give you the
wrong answers, say well we were planning for, you know, 345 megawatts and be
totally wrong. So instead of that what we'll do, can I look that up for you, and
then get that to you. And then you can get that to the rest of the members.
CHR. RICHARDS: Yeah, if you could send it to the Clerk, that could be great.
Okay.
MR. WALTJEN: And then on that what I'll also include is that will have the mix
of generation that we had projected in the PSIP (Power Supply Improvement
Plan) on how we were planning to kind of get to, Now you got to take that with a
grain of salt, right. Because the PSIP we plan so far ahead, and as things start to
change technology changes, load changes, all the pieces start to change. We have
to re-update and reiterate what is important. And some of the things might be
stuff like, which I kind of touched upon with earlier about the hydrogen, right,
you know, in that mix, you might not see it in the PSIP. But as we talk about
today, and we look at what's going around in our nation today. We can see
hydrogen as being something that the nation itself is looking at trying to move
closer and closer too, yeah. So all information as it comes in is important. But
we'll get that to you via—so I get you the right information.
CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, I appreciate that, Kevin. I know this is part of our
conversations we've had, where we have a big island. So our infrastructure is
large, meaning we have lines and relatively speaking low use. So our
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infrastructure costs are very high, and I'm appreciative of the fact we're paying
close attention to that infrastructure cost because that's a true capital investment.
To that and part of the resilience I think answered some of the questions, we
posted a question concerning the circle around the Big Island, I know there was
working towards completion of crossing Volcano National Park. Where are with
that, as finishing that up?
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: So I can take that one. Oh, go ahead. No, Kevin
you are so much more eloquent let me let you answer it.
MR. WALTJEN: I'll let Jen start, and then I'll add in. But you know,that's a
great question, Tim.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: So that is our 3400 line, and that project is almost
completed. In fact, I think by the end of this month, and I hope I'm not
misspeaking. I believe that will be completed, that's through the volcano area.
And that actually closes the communications loop, which is a big deal for 911 and
first responders. And so I'll let Kevin take the technical part of that.
MR. WALTJEN: So the technical part of it is, basically, you know, we're very
fortunate here on Hawaii Island that we have many different communications
groups that have been looking at—how do you improve the communication here
for us on Hawaii Island, right? And I'm not going to mention it, because I don't
want to seem like I'm picking one or the other. But we do have very good
communications groups on the island. And with that being said, they've always
looked at that one section that Jen had mentioned as being a stumbling block or an
impossible piece to make this communication ring complete.
With that being said, and going back to Ashley's last question about, you know,
what are we doing to improve? Our 3400 line rebuild project, which is 34 kb line
that goes from Kilauea, the National Park side going back along that Puna area all
the way back to Puna power plant. We have been reconstructing that line from
2012. So every year we do pieces of that and we've rebuilt that line, so that way
the cost of rebuilding is not so huge that it's an impossible journey, right.
So that line with what Jen just talked about we're finishing up that part in
National Park. Which is probably one of the harder places, because of how we've
got to work within the National Park, helps us create this point where these
communications groups can connect to our pole, and when they connect to those
poles coming to through the park it then links up to our other line which is our 59
kb line going down towards Ka`u. And then they run their communications
connected that link all the way from East Hawaii to south. And then coming
back from south to west, and west going back to north and then coming back
along Hamakua. So if you look at that ring, the rings will be a beautiful thing, the
communication will be as beautiful.
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CHR. RICHARDS: Thanks, Kevin. I know that's important for our county, for
our internet linking thorough out the county. So I appreciate that. Also now
touching back on the hydroelectric plant, and I know there was good questions
brought up there. I know you're online, and the concern of getting these water
licenses secured. I've toured these facilities, and literally this equipment is
100 years old. And I know by getting those water licenses secured, we can
upgrade those equipment. Are we close with those water licenses, and can we
facilitate that for you?
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: We'll I'll let Kevin and Sharon, kind of clean up
my answer. But as Kevin had mentioned earlier, we have been in regular
discussions with DLNR. We made sure that we were pushing forward even
though COVID, and so continued meeting with them. You know, one of the
things with Waiau, it was damaged during Hurricane Lane. And so it's been
offline since then. And we'd like to start making improvements, and this water
lease is really important. And as Kevin mentioned, I think DLNR has been a
really good partner and in working with us, and we hope to get that completed
very soon. Kevin.
CHR. RICHARDS: You have the thumbs up. Okay, we've handled that one.
The solar equipment, and Kevin this may be a question for you we're talking
about equipment life cycle, and with the new solar projects we have a lot batteries
that are going to be coming forth. End of life of those batteries, is that part of the
RFP, is that part of the management? Because again, we are an island, and we
don't want a bunch of old batteries being stacked up here. So is that how we're
going to be managing it, is that part of the program? And I'll turn that over to
both of you.
MR. WALTJEN: Okay, let me try, start on that one. Okay, so that question, is to
do with the way the contract is written. So when we write the contract with these
different independent power producers, they're required to provide us the service
of both the energy and the capacity or the storage of that capacity, or the storage
of that energy, sorry. So when we look at the contract they will maintain, they
will operate,they will replace, and they will be contracted with us for x amount of
years. And required to keep it running. So as part of their cross analysis, when
they figure out what is the best price, or what price can they provide on the fence
for kilowatt hours. They have to look at the maintenance and the operation of that
facility and plant.
Now you bring up a good point, right. And this is where, I don't know if we as a
nation, right, or we as a, even the world, has figured out how much issues will we
get in the future when we have to start to decommission a battery or recycle a
battery, or process the battery, whatever way you want to look at it. I don t think
we're there yet, but as we start to evolve this process and then some of the older
ones start to happen, we start to kind of lay out that process and how we as a
society, as a community, as a nation, as a world have to deal with it. So not really
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totally answering your question completely, but answering it only in the sense that
the contractor will handle that part. But not being able to answer your question as
far as what happens in future, when these things start to have to degrade and we
got to do something with them. I think that part still has to be worked out, and
that with time will tell with that.
CHR. RICHARDS: And Kevin, I appreciate that. Not having the answer, but
knowing that it's a question on the table is the important thing. Because as we go
forward we have to figure this stuff out, and it's going to become more of a
problem. Jen.
MS. ZELKO-SCHLUETER: Yeah. And then if I could add, and maybe it
doesn't directly answer your question. But one of the things that we've changed
quite a bit, as we evaluate the different proposals that come in. There is a thing
called non-price criteria. And so they do look at things like environmental
concerns, community concerns. So you could be technologically great, and you
could maybe even the economics be there. But if the developers don't show this
community outreach plan, what they're planning on doing. And if they don't
show, you know, what they're working on, on the environmental side, the project
doesn't go forward. So I just wanted to mention that, because that changed quite
a bit.
CHR. RICHARDS: I appreciate that. That is a concern, because we can go back
and touch on the whole global warming and all that. And this is to the point. So
with that,touches pretty much most of my questions. I want to thank Hawaiian
Electric for coming in. Sharon Suzuki, thank you so much, we really appreciate
your Zooming in. Kevin, as always great talking stories with you guys. I'm
hearing a shift for Hawaiian Electric going from an electric company, to an
energy company. And I like the concept, and the conversations on hydrogen. I
think this direction is right, so I appreciate that. We have a motion on the floor to
close file. I'd like to call for the vote. All in favor please signify by saying "aye."
Vote on Comm. 1133: The motion to close file on Comm. 1133 was carried by the
Filed following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Eoff,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
Poindexter, Villegas, and Chair Richards —9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions.
(There were none.)
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