HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOREDC 2021/04/06 2020-2022 Committee on Governmental Operations,
Relations, and Economic Development
6th Session
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawai i
April 6, 2021
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations, Relations,
ORDER: and Economic Development was called to order at 10:31 a.m., in the Council
Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Chair
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Vice Chair
Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member
Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member
Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member (came in later)
Absent& Excused: Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.)
CHR. KIMBALL: We'll go ahead and close public testimony. Moving to the
Order of the Day, Resolution 75-21. Mr. Clerk.
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
(There were none.)
GOREDC-6 April 6,2021
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Order
RESOLUTIONS: of Resolutions.
Res. 75-21: URGES THE ADMINISTRATION TO CONDUCT A STUDY TO ADDRESS
THE LACK OF AVAILABLE AND AFFORDABLE PROPERTY INSURANCE
FOR RESIDENTS OF LAVA ZONES 1 AND 2
Requests the Department of Finance to investigate and explore all possible
mechanisms, including a captive insurance company, to provide affordable
property insurance to "High Risk"properties within Lava Zones 1 and 2, and
provide its findings by October 31, 2021.
Reference: Comm. 178
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder
Motion to Approve: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to recommend
adoption of Res. 75-21. Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Go ahead, Council member.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Okay, as you've all had
time to read Res. 75-21, I'll just sum it up real quick. March 1st, I received a letter
from Tracy Kim. She's an agent at the American Mutual Group. It was
submitted as a"pinkie"this morning to your documents in your pink labeled file
(see Comm. 178.1). Summary of the letter basically just states that residents,
mainly in the 96778 zip code, you know, after the eruption in 2018, we're seeing
premiums, for just homeowners' coverage for property, that does not include
hurricane insurance or anything else; for just a basic dwelling coverage of
$350,000, an annual premium for insurance at about$4,500. What I'm hearing is
that this may increase again.
I also came to understand that only one agency, HPIA or Hawaii Property
Insurance Association, is underwriting policies for Lava Zones 1 and 2. Other
insurance companies have basically made the statement that almost the entire
Island of Hawai`i is Lava Zone 1 or what they consider Lava Zone 1. And then
another portion being Lava Zone 2.
What it really comes down to is residents of Hawaii Island, specifically in Puna
where we've had, you know, decades of eruptions and some pretty major
catastrophic losses, are seeing extremely high rates from an insurance agency that
was created by State Law to offer affordable insurance, or at least available
insurance.
Page 2
GOREDC-6 April 6,2021
As good social policy, it is our responsibility to at least look into or study what
options we have so that we can provide, if anything, a lower form of insurance for
residents there. I mean we're looking at close to $100 million in funding to
recover, to rebuild in Puna. And insurance is one of those basic things that's
required for homeowners in the area.
And just last night, I was contacted by someone thanking me for bringing this
forward because she's at a loss as to what to do. And when homeowners'
insurance becomes a deciding factor whether you can or cannot live in a home
that you've lived in your whole life going forward, that's a hard decision for
people to be facing. And as we discuss whether or not people want to buy out or
be bought out of their property, I think a major deciding factor is, can they afford
insurance? Can they insure their home going forward? So to me it fits very well
with the plan going forward with this voluntary buy-out program from HUD (U.S.
Department of Housing and Urban Development).
So I brought this forward again,just good social policy. This is what we do, and
this is something that we can do. The step that needs to be taken now, which is
what I'm pushing in this resolution, is to at least come to an understanding of
what that looks like. If we're going to cover insurance rates; if we're to look at it
as a captive insurance company? If it looked more like the Hawaii Hurricane
Relief Fund? How it would work, but you know, as far as I know there's no
insurance experts on this Council today. But the only person who would really
know this information would be an actuary.
And so the wording actuarially study is to have an insurancesomeone, you
know, well known or respected in the insurance field run a study to understand
what that risk looks like for the County. And we live in an amazing place. And
coupled with that amazingness is a high amount of risk in some areas. I wouldn't
say that just Puna is prone to lava flows. We've seen lava flows come down
toward Hilo. I know that parts of Maile David's district as well as recent flows
coming down towards the Waikoloa area.
We really are an amazing and unique island. And with that there's an inherent
risk. People understand that risk and it's a part of life for us. And there are many
people who still choose to live in Lava Zones 1 and 2 despite knowing those risks.
And I think that going forward this is just kind of a necessary understanding that
we need to have as far as what we can do as a County to help, if anything. But
again, it comes down to understanding what the risk is for the County and what it
looks like. What kind of funding; what kind of payments that could be? I mean
just run through all the different the numbers to better understand.
Page 3
GOREDC-6 April 6,2021
So that's what's in front of us today. I appreciate your thoughts and your
comments on the matter. I yield for now Chair just to hear any other comments
from the Council members. And then we also have Deanna Sako here who we
discussed this with previously. And I look forward to hear input as well, Deanna.
And I think your main concern was risk. And understood, but I think for us we
also have to take care of the people of Puna as we begin to rebuild. So with that I
yield. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council member. Before I take this to discussion,
I'd like to invite Director Sako to come forward and make any comments if you'd
like.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: Good morning. Thank you for this opportunity. I think no one
disagrees that we all care about the people of Puna and this is, you know, an
important factor. But you know,the State is the one that has the insurance
commissioner, and insurance actually falls under the State. I'm not sure if
they've been contacted yet to see, you know, what can happen and what we can
do.
But you know, I did see the section that Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder
pointed out that the County can create a captive insurance program, but it's really
a conflict to other sections of the HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes)which are very
limiting to what the County can invest its funds in. So I mean, obviously, we can
have Corporation Counsel continue to look at that. But you know, I did talk to
our Risk Manager and we're also concerned that perhaps the intention of that
captive insurance company was to insure the risk of our own County properties,
not necessarily the properties of others.
So, you know,there's definitely some contradictions in the HRS that we want to
continue to look at.
But and then maybe I misunderstood the article that was in the paper, but just to
clarify that none of the HUD money would be able to be used for anything like
this. You know,their money cannot be used in Lava Zones 1 and 2 in any way,
shape, or form. So I just wanted to clarify that. And if I misunderstood, I
apologize, but I just wanted to get that all on the table. But I'm happy to answer
any questions you might have.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Director. Any discussion? Council
Member Chung?
Page 4
GOREDC-6 April 6,2021
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, you know, Deanna, you kind of hit all of the issues on the
head, you know, because those were the things that I was thinking about too. But
just from your perspective, what would this study look like if you did embark on
conducting a study, what do you think it would look like?
MS. SAKO: You know, I can't really envision. I know I heard the work actuarial
study, I guess, you know,to determine the risk factors I actually would have to
look at the lava, the lava history, you know. We don't know if the eruption may
hit tomorrow or 25 or 30 or 60 years from now. None of us really know that, and
so I'm not sure how the actuary is going to get concrete numbers. You know,
everything with actuaries is the likelihood. And so I don't know how they would
get comfortable with doing something like that. I'm not even sure if you could
find someone.
MR. CHUNG: I'll get to the actuarial aspects with my next question, but I'm just
saying from your perspective, and this is of course, only urging the Finance
Department to conduct a study. But if you were to do a study, do you have any
idea as to how it would look or you have no idea?
MS. SAKO: I have no idea right now.
MR. CHUNG: Because it is kind of vague. Second question regarding the
actuary. Even if we did go that route, how much would that cost? Do we have an
appropriation for that?
MS. SAKO: We do not have an appropriation for anything like that right now.
And it would be, I would think quite large. You know, we participate statewide
just to do actuarial studies for like our ERS (Employees Retirement System) and
health plans. But that's a little different and something they do annually. This is
the first time, I think, anything like this would be done.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, because one of the questions I had, you know. I mean it
would seem to make sense to task the Finance Department because you guys deal
with money and all those other things. But I really was wondering which
department would be capable of doing this, right? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder
stated that no one on the Council, you know, has that skillset. And I don't really
know if anyone at the Administration has that skillset.
MS. SAKO: No not specifically.
Page 5
GOREDC-6 April 6,2021
MR. CHUNG: But having said that, you know, I will support the resolution. But
I'm going to make a proviso, though. It's going to be a token support. This is
not, no offense to anyone here, but this is not good social policy. You know, I've
heard that word, Band-Aide about three times today. I don't view this resolution
as being solid social policy.
But it's something that should be addressed at some level, whether it's County,
whomever that may be. More appropriately at the State level. I can see urging
the State to take a real hard look at this, right? But I'll support it, and you guys do
whatever you guys want with it. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Any further discussion? Council Member
Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. And thank you Matt for elevating this
issue so we can have the dialogue at Council. I mean we saw with the 2014 and
2018 flows insurance for Lava Zones 1 and 2 skyrocketed. And so the folks that
are able to afford are buying homes with cash. And we're really limiting the pool
of individuals that are able to buy because there's this additional $5,000 plus cost
to purchasing a home.
My wondering is, you know, because of what Finance Director Sako shared and
Councilman Chung, about our County not necessarily having the expertise or
capacity please consider an amendment to this resolution that directs the Hawaii
State Commission because they have the regulatory and policy-making function
around insurance to do the study. I've taken a look at their annual reports, 2015,
2016, 2019, 2020, all mention this exact issue. And so I think it would be very
appropriate for this body to send that agency a resolution directing them to do
further study.
I think it's beyond the capacity and ability of Finance, no offense. You guys do
an excellent job for County related activities. And I know that we're in budget,
and there's going to be a lot of work ahead of us to appropriate and spend the
American Rescue Plan money. So I think best use of time and energy would be
focused on an amendment directing the State Commissioner to do this work.
Thank you, I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Richards?
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, thank you. Thanks, Matt. I think this is an issue, and
you know, we've seen this previously with earthquakes, with flooding, with
hurricanes. This is problematic for our State and our County, specifically because
we're the one with the volcano.
Page 6
GOREDC-6 April 6,2021
That being said, though, I appreciate what Aaron just talked about, the financial
side of it. And I agree with Ashley what you just said. I like the fact that we
better study this. But I don't know if we're the right entity to actually study this.
And so I like the fact that we need to put this on the agenda. We need to put it on
the radar, but I think we need to direct the State to do this on the bigger scale,
because we're not going to be able to fund this going forward, and that's my
concern.
And we talked about the Lava Zone. I think Matt, you made a comment about
some insurance companies view this as almost Lava Zone 1. If you read the
difference between Lava Zones 1, 2, 3, it's a statistical difference. You know,
lava flow in 200 years or whatever the case may be. I mean I get it from a
statistical standpoint, but the reality is we have higher risk areas and lower risk
areas. And we have to come up with some sort of meaningful way to address that.
Paradoxically, the more affordable housing is in the Lava Zone area 1 and 2. So
now we're going to make it unaffordable because they can't afford the insurance.
So I like the idea, but I think maybe we need to engage on a bigger level for the
review. I will support it, but I think we need to engage it on a higher view
because quite frankly, I think Finance is going to be a little bit taxed for, every
pun intended on that by the way. Little bit taxed as far as getting our County
business done, and I think this is a bigger conversation, but I like you bringing it
up. Chair, I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Any other comments? Council Member David.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair Kimball. And thank you, Deanna, for clarifying
that because I think I have to agree that this should be under the jurisdiction of the
State. And the only reason I'm saying that is, before the 2018 eruption and more
so, in South Kona where I live, I'm about a mile from the edge of Lava Zone 2.
And because of that, my insurance rate is just the same as Lava Zone 1. And I
had a hard time finding an insurance company that would insure for a reasonable
amount. After the eruption it went sky high.
I believe the State is the one, according to my insurance adjuster, that they have to
abide by the designation, whoever designates the zones, which has not been
touched in years. And so, realistically, my question is South Kona in Lava
Zone 2? That's so far from the active volcano, but if you look at what
Mr. Richards says, this whole island, you know. But I think we are the rural areas
of South Kona and Puna are being unfairly assessed as far as getting insurance.
So this needs to be addressed on the State level, and whether they actually revisit
the designation, or more realistic designation of these zones according to what's
happened in the last 40, 50 years, maybe, I'm not sure how that's done. But it's
all a State level jurisdiction matter.
Page 7
GOREDC-6 April 6,2021
So I agree that something needs to be done and maybe Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,
given our discussion today will entertain some of the suggestions that we're
making, because it really needs to go to the people who have authority on this
matter. So thank you, I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Council Member Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, thank you. You know,just listening to everybody it's very
apparent that this is a very important issue to many affected people. But the
importance of getting all of these concerns on the record is so that if we come
back in October, and Administration really has nothing, at least we understand
why. Because there's no specific guidelines as to why the Finance Department is
tasked with this.
And second, what we're looking for, you know. I just don't want you guys being
the fall people. But it is important, and whatever we can do to work towards
getting this resolved favorably, that's something we need to do. We've got to put
our heads together, of course. And I think Ms. Kierkiewicz was right, we should
direct this, all of our efforts towards the State, because they are primarily
responsible for that area, you know, insurance specifically. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council member. Any further comments? Go
ahead.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council, for your comments.
Deanna, I mean by Code, by HRS we can create a captive insurance company.
That's clear. And we also have the ability to make funds and do what we so
choose. Another option of this and the point of me bringing this up was to discuss
something like a Hawaii Hurricane Relief Fund, which basically achieves the
same goal. But more so than anything is asking the Department of Finance, I
think, not so much as it's being stated today, as to do the study but to find
someone to do the study.
We can't do anything until we understand what's going on. If the State can take
that on for free, well then beautiful. But the point being residents right now
cannot afford to buy a home or insure their home in Puna because they can't
afford an extra $400 a month as an insurance rate. And understandably there is a
risk involved in living in Puna, we understand that. But if that is their choice, that
is their choice.
Page 8
GOREDC-6 April 6,2021
And if we look at providing people the opportunity to rebuild or to have a
voluntary buyout of their property, one thing they have to understand is what's it
going to cost to live in their home going forward. If they don't know because
insurance rates as provided by the State, which is HPIA (Hawai`i Property
Insurance Association), is fluctuating or can go up to $6, $7, $8,000 a year.
That's just a huge cost and Puna is low income already. We were severely
impacted by Hurricane Iselle, by the eruption. Going forward, these are the kind
of things that people need to know. You need to know what your bill looks like
going forward. And also if you're going to be bought out, what that looks like.
It's just an integral piece of information.
My point of asking the Finance Department—and I wouldn't ask Parks and Rec.,
I wouldn't ask Public Works. You guys understand the financial capability of our
County. And the actuary would be the one doing the study. The reason why,
because they understand what the market looks like. They understand what the
risk factor is; what it would cost, what it looks like. Is it a complete devastation
of Puna again in 20 years? Nobody knows. But we can't do anything and we
cannot proceed. We can push on the State until we know what the numbers look
like. If we don't know the numbers then we're just blind.
And in some of our previous discussions with Doug Le and our Lava Recovery
Team, they don't know what the insurance market looks like. They're asking me,
where did you get this information? You know, who's saying what? What I'm
getting right now is that HPIA is the only one providing insurance unless you
were grandfathered in. And more so, any insurance provider can actually walk
away from the market if they so choose.
There's a lot of State codes that I came to learn that require companies to provide
or not drop more than five percent of their renewals. There's a lot of things to
protect the people of Puna, but one thing I'm not seeing is affordable and
available insurance. And so I mean if we're going to strive and succeed, and
we're going to rebuild Puna and we're realistic about that, insurance is a major
piece of information that we need to know.
So we can choose to push it off to the State. We can choose to say it's not our
deal, but at the same time, if we don't understand just the basic numbers of what's
going on, then we're blind. And you can't make a decision based on no
information. So I would hope that this body can see that what we need to do,
which is what it sounds like, people understand there's a reason for this and it's a
good policy. But more so, we need the information so we can make a decision. If
it's bad, if we cannot handle, if there's too much risk involved, okay. If it looks
good and there's something that we can do
Page 9
GOREDC-6 April 6,2021
CHR. KIMBALL: Please summarize Matt, thank you.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Then we can go from there. So,previous
discussion, thank you for your time. Just before I wrap it up, is there anything
that holds us back that you found so far? I mean you mentioned some things, the
State Code and in County Code.
MS. SAKO: Right, so I mean we can continue to have Corporation Counsel look
at that. But you know, money is what it's going to come down to and how much
are we willing to spend.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council member. Thank you, Director. I think
it's been made pretty clear by the full body that we all see genuinely the need to
support our neighbors in Puna. And I can't imagine having to deal with that
insurance bill every month. You know, I'm thankful to Council Member David
and Council Member Richards for bringing up a little bit of the question about the
zones and how those are specified. You know, that's obviously something that
needs to be looked into and considered with all of this.
I share my colleagues' opinions that this is probably best handled at the State
through the Insurance Commissioner. And also to take into consideration the
concern that there is a monopoly in any kind of insurance. Whether it's
homeowner's insurance, or business insurance, or any number of areas where we
have specified insurance, we do have very limited options. And that is of great
concern because those costs can get inflated. So that would be another
component of this that I think needs to be considered.
I think it's something that we actually, as much I think that the Finance
Department does a wonderful job on so many things. You are going to be very
limited, not only with our own budget process but also with the next round of
Federal funding and potentially the whole infrastructure package coming in
addition to that. This is the kind of thing that could have in my mind a lot of
unintended consequences if not done well. And even just in the reporting of
information.
And so I would really encourage, as some of my other colleagues have, an
amendment to this that would be request at the State level to folks that are
actually tasked with this responsibility. With that, any further comments or
follow-up? Alright thank you, we'll go ahead and move to the vote. All of those
in favor of moving this resolution to the full Council with a favorable
recommendation please say "aye."
Page 10
GOREDC-6 April 6,2021
Vote on Res. 75-21: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 75-21 was
(Approved) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Richards,
Villegas, and Chair Kimball— 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Lee Loy— 1.
Excused: None.
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
(There were none.)
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 10:59 a.m., Mr. Richards moved to adjourn
MENT: the meeting. Seconded by Ms. Villegas and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Richards,
Villegas, and Chair Kimball— 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Lee Loy— 1.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: Everybody enjoy lunch. Mahalo.
Approved:
, IIA5(to I lo'bi
JAUltt
s. eather L. Kimb 1, Chair ( ate)
ernment Operations, Relations,
and Economic Development Committee
HK/dt
Page 11