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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN RAWEEMC 2021/03/16 2020-2022Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, Energy, And Environmental Management 4th Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawai i March 16, 2021 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, ORDER: Energy and Environmental Management was called to order at 3:31 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Vice Chair (via videoconference from Kona) Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (via videoconference from Kona) Absent & Excused: Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PT TRT .TC C)N AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak in comment of Comm. 137. Sandra Demoruelle Jerome Warren CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Jerry. With that, we're going to take some things out of order. Oh, sorry about that, thank you. We need to close public testimony. And then moving forward, I'm going to take things out of order. We're going to deal with the nominations, and then finish up with Environmental Management. So with that Clerk, Communication 164. Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, of Business: the following items were taken out of order: COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 Comm. 164: NOMINATION OF MICHAEL BELL TO THE WATER BOARD From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated February 19, 2021, requesting the Council's review and confirmation. Requires Council Confirmation by: April 10, 2021 (Section 13-4(k), Hawaii County Charter) Vote on Comm. 164: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend confirmation (Approved) of the appointment of Michael Bell to the Water Board. Seconded by Ms. Kimball and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas and Chair Richards — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member David —1. Excused: None. Executive Assistant to the Mayor Ms. Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward and provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the nomination. Chair Richards informed Mr. Bell that he does not need to appear before the full Council for final confirmation. CHR. RICHARDS: Communication 165, please. Comm. 165: NOMINATION OF CORTNEY OKUMURA TO THE GAME MANAGEMENT ADVISORY COMMISSION From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated February 23, 2021, requesting the Council's review and confirmation. Requires Council Confirmation by: April 10, 2021 (Section 13-4(k), Hawaii County Charter) Page 2 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 Vote on Comm. 165: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend confirmation (Approved) of the appointment of Cortney Okumura to the Game Management Advisory Commission. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas and Chair Richards — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member David —1. Excused: None. Executive Assistant to the Mayor Ms. Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward and provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the nomination. Chair Richards informed Ms. Okumura that she does not need to appear before the full Council for final confirmation. Comm. 166: NOMINATION OF LEOMANA TURALDE TO THE GAME MANAGEMENT ADVISORY COMMISSION From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated February 23, 2021, requesting the Council's review and confirmation. Requires Council Confirmation by: April 10, 2021 (Section 13-4(k), Hawaii County Charter) Vote on Comm. 166: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend confirmation (Approved) of the appointment of Leomana Turalde to the Game Management Advisory Commission. Seconded by Ms. Kimball and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas and Chair Richards — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member David —1. Excused: None. Executive Assistant to the Mayor Ms. Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward and provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the nomination. Chair Richards informed Mr. Turalde that he does not need to appear before the full Council for final confirmation. Page 3 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 Comm. 167: NOMINATION OF ELYSE ROBINSON TO THE ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT COMMISSION From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated February 23, 2021, requesting the Council's review and confirmation. Requires Council Confirmation by: April 10, 2021 (Section 13-4(k), Hawaii County Charter) Vote on Comm. 167: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to recommend confirmation (Approved) of the appointment of Elyse Robinson to the Environmental Management Commission. Seconded by Ms. Kimball and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas and Chair Richards — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member David —1. Excused: None. Executive Assistant to the Mayor Ms. Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward and provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the nomination. Chair Richards informed Ms. Robinson that she does not need to appear before the full Council for final confirmation. Return to Oder The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business. of Business: Comm. 137: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT REGARDING WASTEWATER FACILITIES, SEWER SYSTEMS, AND DETRIMENTAL IMPACTS TO COASTAL AREAS From Council Member Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, dated February 19, 2021. Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Communication 137. Seconded by Ms. Kimball. CHR. RICHARDS: Mr. Mansour, please come on up. I put forth this communication twofold, to have an explanation of where we are; we've had lots of comments about Wastewater Management, and thoughts ideas and directions; but also gives you a little bit more time to talk to the Council about your thoughts and direction. So with that I know we have a PowerPoint, the floor is yours. Page 4 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 (Note: At this time, Environmental Management Director Ramzi Mansour and Deputy Wastewater Division Chief Eric Takamura came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. MANSOUR: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Committee Members. Hopefully we'll go over the presentation. I got Mr. Takemura here with me, he's the Deputy Chief for the Wastewater Division. And let's start. (Note: At this time, Mr. Mansour and Mr. Takamura provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the presentation, see the DVD copy of the proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or online at http://hawaiicounty.,granicus.com. A hard copy of the presentation is made a part of the record. See Comm. 137. 1.) MR. MANSOUR: And with that, I end up my presentation, and mahalo, and I'm ready to answer questions. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. Thank you, Ramzi. We'll open this up for questions from the Council. I start here in Hilo. Sue, go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Ramzi, Director, thank you for being here. You guys delivered a very challenging presentation, in a very calm and collected manner. I'm just going to be real direct. If we had to grade our wastewater systems, letter grade, where are we at? MR. MANSOUR: Probably, I'll give you a F. We failed. I'm sorry to say that, but we failed. I've been in the business for a long time, to recognize a facility if I walk into it. It breaks my heart to see the conditions that the facilities, we are in. MS. LEE LOY: So I'm no subject matter expert, but what I'm seeing is eminent failure. I'm seeing in inefficiency, I'm seeing so many problems. And that Department of Health let us backslide to this place, I don't think they did us any favors either. So I want to start with maybe how we figure out a way out. And so one of the recommendations is this enterprise funding system, or other financial sustainable structures. Tell me how an enterprise funding system would work. MR. MANSOUR: The enterprise funding system would be created to only, and designated for this wastewater. Nobody could touch it. You cannot allocate the funding to something else, because now we're under the mercy of some of the General Fund. And sometimes we don't get the funding, because they say all the money needs to go somewhere else. But yeah, like I said, we try to save a penny by spending a dollar and that's where we end. So with the enterprise fund, you designate a fund only directed to the wastewater capital improvement and maintenance. So the fund will have two different accounts. One is based on rate fee, which it goes into that operation and maintenance and the collection; and one Page 5 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 fund would go, which is through the connection fees, it goes to the capital improvement. Unfortunately on this island since the first treatment plant was built, the department and the county had failed to collect connection fees. It's very important, you cannot give capacity in the sewer pot for free. These people are tying in, they taking capacity within the sewer line, they're not paying for it. When you go stay in the hotel, you pay for the hotel you stay in. These people coming in taking space within the treatment, within the piping system, nobody's paying for it. So who do you think is going to pay for it? So it's unfortunate, but we need to correct it. We need to start creating connection fees, developers come in they have to pay connection fees. They have to pay upfront. Anybody connect, they have to pay connection fees. That money sits aside, and eventually it pays for the expansion called capital improvement for these facilities. And this is not strange practice, this practice has been happening all over the country all over the world. That's what I'm saying, when I came here I was surprised because without fees, it's just crazy. Who's going to pay for it? And that's why we're in the situation we are now. MR. TAKAMURA: The enterprise fund set up, is one step from doing a semiautonomous department. Honolulu wastewater was an enterprise fund, because politics did not want to create another semiautonomous agency. They thought Board of Water Supply had too much power, so that's why it still remains—but it should be its own semiautonomous just like Water Supply. MS. LEE LOY: You know, you mentioned you came in a saw the facilities, and these are facilities that are 30 -plus years old that have never been maintained, like no maintenance. And so I have to question, where did all the money go? MR. MANSOUR: I don't know if there was money. MS. LEE LOY: And maybe that's where an audit, would come in very helpful for this department to look back at the years of money going into this department, that clearly did not do what they said the money would be used for. I'm actually going to stop, because I'm alarmed that we might be heading down the road for a lot of liability. Chair, I'm going to yield at this time. Thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. Also not my area of expertise. I really appreciate your thorough presentation from both of you. And kind of piggybacking off of what Council Member Lee Loy said. I'm not trying to place blame, but rather understand how we get out of where we are. I'm going to just ask you, your general assessment how did we get here? I mean was it a failure to use funds correctly, a failure to actually make this a priority from the standpoint of the Page 6 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 Councils and the Administrations that have gone over—been in existence. Just give me high level view, how did we get here? MR. MANSOUR: I think it's all of the above. And the financial failure setting the right financial mechanism, to try not to allocate funds for the maintenance that it needed. Not having an accountability program in place. Not having the standard of procedure in place. Not having operation and manual procedure in place that needs to be updated. Not have the training procedure in place, to train the staff for what they need to watch for, what they need to maintain for. Not having responsibility, ownership of the facilities. All of that adds up to failure. Failure like you see, I mean look at the picture in front of you, look at these rails. Literally when I was in Hilo they told me don't step on these crosswalks, we call them catwalk way. To go from unit to unit, because they're fragile. So how could the staff be able to stand on these? Because we could lose somebody into these wastewater, easy. So it's very alarming. I mean you could see the rails. It just should not look that way, it should not be corroded, should be maintained. Funds should have been allocated long time ago, 30 years ago. When staff used to request money and not get it, you know, because it's going to some other facility, so we're carrying the attitude is, if it's not broke don't fix it. I mean wait for it to break, so you could fix it. So that attitude was the wrong attitude to use in these Wastewater Treatment Plant. You have to have prevention program, which was lacking here. Accountability was lacking. And all that items that I presented to you was lacking. So it's a total failure. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. Eric, please. MR. TAKAMURA: The other thing I've noticed is, how this county funds CIP (Capital Improvement Projects) projects. So major maintenance projects are put into CIP. But then when I came over here, and I asked Dora, "Look like we got plenty money." CIP FY 2018 was passed. Had 10 million for anaerobic digester modifications. Had all this money, and 2019 had some more money in the CIP. And my assumption was your CIP, was like City and County of Honolulu. If that project passes Council, and Mayor signs, there's money to do the project. So she tells me, "Ho, wait, wait, we may not have the money." I go, "What do you mean we don't have the money, the thing passed Council." You know, we got Robin to come over, and Robin kind of explained to us. And I went "Does Department of Health know this?" Like they come and do their compliance inspection every year, they look at the CIP that passes Council, they believe that the county is putting money on the side to repair major projects. But actually it's not like City and County, or the State's CIP program. There's actually no money to do the projects, unless the Mayor floats the bonds. Page 7 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 MR. MANSOUR: I got the same feeling when I first started. I said, "Good. We've got the money. Let's try doing the projects." Same thing, you know, because in front of County Council they approve the budget. But we cannot do the project, so what good is that going to do us if you guys approve the budget, but we don't have the money or the resources. So it's kind of false hope to start with, and I think definitely it goes back to the system. Wastewater and Solid Waste are considered health and safety issues. People could go to jail. They could lose their certification. And I've seen it. So we cannot be under the mercy of any other department to tell us how much money they're going to give us to do our work, period. We can't, we have to be sustainable as a standalone funding department, either through enterprise, through land -use fees, through different mechanism that create a fund for the service we provide. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. I have to say, it definitely feels a little bit overwhelming. Thank you both for your frank assessments. I do think we are at significant risk of major failures here, given. And it still shocks me to think of something that's from 1990 is 30 years old, that feels like only yesterday. But the fact that we haven't done maintenance on some of these things over that entire life span, I'm frankly horrified. But I can also see how this could happen, without this dedicated funding stream that you talked about. Some pragmatic questions. I know we know the number of cesspools that we have. What's our septic tank count? MR. MANSOUR: I don't know if we have a count on the septic, we could get back to you on the numbers. MS. KIMBALL: Okay, that be fine. You mentioned $5 million a mile for connectivity, and I think that probably the EIS (Environmental Impact Statement) program that you were planning with the preliminary facilities planning, we'd get some more of this. But I'm just curious at sort of an unofficial level, what is the geographical scale that tends to make sense? I know, I'm not asking this very well. What's the size at which you say okay, this is one plant verses okay, we need to put another one here? MR. MANSOUR: Right. For now the westside is designed for 5mgd (million gallons per day.) The rule of thumb is, you know, each house considers to be about 300 gallons per day. We refer to as one ESFD which is, Equivalent Single -Family Dwelling. In the county here we don't have standards, so what they've been doing they're using City and County standards. Which is almost three to four times the amount of flow, so you cannot estimate a fluff within the design. And that's why Pahala was designed for 200,000 verses, the 80,000 gallon per day. So you almost double the design factor, as you design these facilities. So what you do is you look at the map, and you say, "Okay, geographically I want to see if I could avoid any mechanical lifting. If I could design everything to go gravity, Page 8 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 I'll save money." That's number one you look at, based on geography and the gradients. And then you said, "Okay, we'll start with the two big facilities we have." So you have the $5 million and you get the Hilo also, about the same amount. So you trying to expand you envelope of effluents, to capture up to the design value. And then once you capture that, you could expand on it by expanding the plan because you've already have the facility. So technically it depends, it could grow. I mean look at the City and County. They go all the way from Waikiki and comes all the way to Sand Island. So you could go as far as you want. And you could have a pump station in Hawaii to kind of help you lessen the sewage. So if you have a facility, you could expand the spider web to as much as you want. And the idea is you could do it, or you could partner with other facilities that may have to find a win-win. So let's say the westside, we cannot expand the infrastructure of the sewer collection because it's probably going to cost you $1,500, $1,000 to $1,500 a foot. Every foot is going to cost you that much, because we're getting into lava, and it's very expensive to excavate. So let's say you're about, you know, 1,000 feet away, you know, that's almost a million and a half dollars just to put, you know, a 1,000 foot of sewer. But if there is a waste treatment plant that belongs to a resort or private, what we could do, well we could negotiate or be the neutral party and have these homeowners associations or all the private entities to purchase capacity from the private entity. So we have to look outside the box and try to make it work. But as far as the limitation and the boundaries, there's a lot of factors plays in that. But you could start where we're at, and expand the envelope to include at least to the capacity of the plant. And unfortunately the challenge we're going to have, a good example I'll give you the westside. We've got 15 inch of sewer mainline. You know, eventually you're going to run out of capacity, because we've been giving it for free. So who's going to pay for another 20 miles of sewer line? It has to be constructed in parallel to the current sewer line all the way from the end of Ali i Drive, all the way to the Kealakehe Plant. Who's going to pay for it? We have to think in advance, we have to have planning, we have to set money aside. So we don't come back, and you guys would be major financial liability when it comes to future growth and development. Because right now if you don't have the money and the funds, to run another sewer line in parallel to the existing 15 inch, you're going to limit your growth. That's the intent, you've achieved your intent. But if that's not the intent, we better start thinking about what we need to do next. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you for that last point, that's very relevant. I'm going to yield at this time, Chair. Thanks CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. Mr. Chung. Page 9 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 MR. CHUNG: Thank you. First of all, Mr. Chairman, I wanted to thank you for this, you know, requesting this presentation. And to Ramzi, Eric, Dora, and Peter, fantastic. Sobering, but fantastic. And that's something that had to be shown to, you know, not only the Council, but the public as well. I just have one question, and of course, you know, I have a lot of questions. But one question, and this actually might help me to resolve other matters in my mind. But you know, in the past, I and others were told that the operations of the Hilo Wastewater Treatment Facility, perhaps others as well, as a condition of its grant acceptance could only be funded by those being serviced, is that correct? MR. MANSOUR: Yes. Actually, this is not an old practice. Usually anywhere you go in the country, what they call special districts. You know, you could look at it as county wide, or you could look at it as special district to each people, each boundary that's being served for each treatment plant. So the Hilo, you could create a special district for the Hilo waste treatment plant, and you only charge the people that's being served by that plant. MR. CHUNG: What did they mean by people being serviced? MR. MANSOUR: The people that connected to the sewer, and their sewer flows from their house to the treatment plant. MR. CHUNG: Okay. And therein lies a big problem, okay. And if you guys can find a different interpretation, you are an expert you've dealt with this for a long time. Think of it this way, Ramzi. Well let me back up. First of all, I'm a big proponent of creating a sewer fund. Let everybody pay for sewers, okay. Whether you use, it or not. Because look at it this way, let's say I'm hooked up to the sewer line, I'm not right now. I would love to though, I wish there was a sewer line next to my home. I would connect. But the purpose of having a sewer is so that people don't, you know, have cesspools and other. I mean one of the reasons is to protect the environment, right. MR. MANSOUR: Right. MR. CHUNG: So now, the people who are protecting the environment by paying the sewer line hookup from their home to the main, sometimes anywhere from $1,500 to tens of thousands of dollars, have to pay a monthly or every other month fee to keep the environment clean. And they didn't ask for this thing to be next to them, but their required now to pay for it. Something is wrong with this picture. To me clean environment is everybody's business, everybody should pay. And that way it lessens the burden to the individuals. MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, right. You're absolutely right. The good thing here we don't have these special districts, because the county oversees all the waste treatment systems. So what you could do, you establish enterprises for the beneficial use of the treatment plant. So you could set a fee that applies to Page 10 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 everybody, because they have the beneficial use of that treatment plant, similar to the landfill, they have the beneficial use of that facility. Therefore you could set aside a fixed fee that everybody puts money into. So like I said, there's so many different ways to do it. The (Proposition) 218 process in California for example, it's restrict that it kind of tells you the people that you serve, actually you have to charge them the actual cost of service. So you create an authority, or you create a district and you say, okay, this district has maybe 200,000 homes, and that's how they make their revenue based on having connection and monthly sewer fees. MR. CHUNG: Okay, Ramzi, and that's why I wanted to start off with that question first and last because I got to split, right. But I want to talk to you Eric, and Dora a little bit more about this concept, okay. Because I'm sure we can there might be various areas on this island that are going to raise holy hell, right. But if we can spread out the cost, it's for the greater good. MR. MANSOUR: I agree. MR. CHUNG: I believe. Let's talk about this. MR. MANSOUR: And I think that's what's going to take to make it happen. MR. CHUNG: Right. MR. MANSOUR: The economy scale, my understanding if it's true we have a 100 plus parcels and everybody pays in to protect our island. I think it's a win-win. MR. CHUNG: Yeah. We just got to find a way of doing it so it's not violative of any kind of Federal Law, Federal Grant, Federal Loan, or whatever, right. MR. MANSOUR: Believe me I try to work with it first day I got here, with our County Council and Deanna. I gave her actually a copy of what we used to do in California, and I asked her to review the legal documents. And kind of give me an idea, could we apply it here? You know, because if anybody lives within a beneficial use of any facility, you can charge them for that beneficial use. MR. CHUNG: Let's talk story. MR. MANSOUR: Okay. MR. CHUNG: Okay. But thank you very much for your time, it was pretty frightening actually. Page 11 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 MR. MANSOUR: I mean, I cannot sleep at night. I don't know what I got myself into. But yeah, sorry. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. Thanks, Ramzi. Kona, Holeka or Rebecca, either of you. MS. VILLEGAS: Yes, please. CHR. RICHARDS: Go ahead. MS. VILLEGAS: Aloha, Ramzi. Thank you for being here today. And I wholeheartedly thank you for being as blunt, and brutal as you are with this news. Unfortunately for me, this is not new news. This is information and concerns that have been screamed from the hilltops, by a number of different organizations and groups within our community over the last couple of decades. I'm extremely grateful to have you here, and your broader visioning as well as experience in working in other capacities, utilizing other models. The crap stops here. We cannot afford any more of this. As we continue to navigate our way through the damage coming our way through sea level rise and climate change. There's even more of this coming, because so many of our sewer lines are so close to the ocean. So I on a positive a note, on the bright side. There's been a silver lining with a pause of COVID in this time of the rona (coronavirus), and the slowdown of the number of visitors. And the amount of waste, quite literally. And it's impact on our infrastructure. And also as we continue to navigate our way out of this, and looking at the national funding that some of the colleagues of mine on the Council today were talking about. As we identify those resources, I want you to know you have an ally, in somebody yelling it from the rooftops that those resources need to be allocated to our infrastructure improvement projects. Unfortunately we can't go back. You know, people say the county, the county and there is no "the county." It's whoever works, in whatever position at a certain time. And it sounds like the deterioration of these facilities and this equipment have taken decades to get to this point of tragic inequities and risk of complete failure. But I am hopeful, and I really like this paradigm that you're talking about and a new way of allocating resources. Nobody's going to love the change. We have gotten away with cesspool, you know, since I was born here. Heck we had an outhouse when I was a kid. But we have to transition to a more responsible and equitable way of treating our waste. And I don't think I've spent more time in my life talking about human waste then in running for office and in this role. So this is incredible important. Thank you for bringing this to the forefront and requiring that we never again turn a blind spot as we allocate funding and resources. And I'm very hopeful, especially in District 7 where we have so little, so few sewered developments and neighborhoods. And we are sited for so much more developments but we have to catch up. And we have to get things online Page 12 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 and on power, and operating in a sufficient and sustainable fashion before we add more to that. So thank you for your leadership. Thank you for sticking around even the more that you dive in, the more murky the water gets. And I look forward to continuing to work together, and exploring these opportunities for how to finance these projects and how to allocate resources that are headed our way from potential federal funding. Thank you again, for just making it as crystal clear as sludge can be that we are in a mess, and it's time for us to clean up our mess. So with that I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you. MR. INABA: Chair, Holeka. CHR. RICHARDS: Yeah, go ahead Holeka. MR. INABA: Director Mansour, thank you. This is really frustrating actually, to have to hear this at the end of the day. And we know we got a preview when we called for the communication last month, I believe on the Kealakehe Wastewater Treatment Plant. But just to know that it's not just one plant, but an F grade for the whole county, as Council Member Lee Loy, you know, asked for that grade. It's just kind of amazing to see what we have not done all these years. So I'll echo what Council Member Villegas had said, and I said this to you before as well, that anything that we can do on our end let us know and we're willing to help. Because we can't continue to push this down, and let things go another 31 years without maintenance. Or one more year for that matter. So mahalo, for that. Chair, I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Heather we are down to last few. You've got a quick question or two? MS. KIMBALL: I just wanted this was actually for Council Member Chung and his idea spreading around the pain here with the cost is probably a good idea. I would just like to suggest to you folks, so this is discussed when you folks talk further, is perhaps we should also extend this in some way to the visitors who also benefit from our clean environment. I mean whether that happens through the property ownership of the resorts, or whatnot. But just something to throw out there, not advocating particularly on that position. But I'd like to hear that discussed, as part of the overall solution. MR. MANSOUR: Actually that's a great idea. Because the way you charge hotels, it's based on occupancy. And we could change the code, where the charges could be based on that type of structure for hotels and resorts. So they have a fixed rate, and then they have occupancy rates. Page 13 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 CHR. RICHARDS: These things we'll have to kick around, getting some good ideas, but this will be part of the conversation. And Director and I have had some conversations about some thoughts for distributing cost. So we'll flush those out a little bit, and get back. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Sir. Questions for you. Cesspools, septic tanks, can the two be used in conjunction with each other? mean most people will have either a cesspool, or septic tank if they're not connected to sewer system. We're supposed to be converting to septic tanks, correct? MR. MANSOUR: Right. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Everyone who has a cesspool? MR. MANSOUR: Yeah. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Everyone from my district, Puna. MR. MANSOUR: It's good that you—good question actually. I`ve been working with the Department of Health. Our intention is to convert that cesspool, which is a hole I was showing you on the drawing. And trying to see if we could use some of the recyclable products from the landfill, such as gravel that we're getting through excavating the new cells for the landfill, or some type of sand. As long as we could find material. Woodchips are great to absorb nitrogen, and gravel be great to take some of that phosphorus out of that effluent. So if we take these cesspool holes, and they become our leach fields in a sense, then you could put a septic tank next to them. So we're going to do a pilot program, and it's an outside the box experiment that I've been working with the Department of Health. And they are very acceptable to the concept, as long as we can improve the quality of the effluent. And also depends on the Maui decision, because in their definition injection wells—consider it injection well if the depth exceeds the diameter, the width. So I think they allow you up to 1,000 gallons. So if the homes, even though they have a vertical depth, may exceed the width but doesn't exceed a 1,000 gallons this could be something that they could approve. So we have to look into it, and we have to look at the detail of how we're going to improve these leach fields. Because we don't have the horizontal distance, but we have the vertical. So we could capture these cesspools to convert them to leach sewage pit with the right material. It could be gravel, it could be something that could enhance the flow. Filter the effluent. And then you could put a septic tank next to it, about 300 gallon or 500 gallon just to collect the solids. And then if you don't have the space, maybe an arrangement would be a septic company to come and, you know, septic tank come in and clean these tanks every so often Page 14 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 because of the size of the lot. But if you have a bigger lot, you could use a bigger septic tank. So it takes you up to five to ten years, to pump it out. So there's different options. You know, I've been involved with the cesspool committee that Sandra was one of the testimony she was brought up the committee. Definitely there's options there. It could be expensive to some, it could be cheap to others. But that committee is continuing to discuss options. But since we are one of the biggest islands with the most numbers of cesspools, you know, I'm trying to figure out outside the box to our constituents. Especially with the smaller lots, how can we save these smaller lots and yet have them comply? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The cost of digging a hole, the cost of the tank and if you have to install a septic tank anyway in place of your cesspool, but you don't have the room for a leach field given the pictures you were showing, it just makes sense to take your septic tank, and secondarily feed your cesspool with whatever's coming out of your septic tank. In my mind, you know, it seems to make sense. MR. MANSOUR: That's what we've been working on. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's cool. I just—from what you showed, I was like MR. MANSOUR: I'm glad you caught on it. Exactly, its common sense, right. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Seems like it. MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, and we need to get the regulator (inaudible). Unfortunately sometimes when you have rules, and regulations it just hard to maneuver around them. But we MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It's basically the same idea. You just minus the length of a leach field and you're doing extra inversion. MR. MANSOUR: Actually they do exist. Seepage pits do exist. I mean you don't have the (inaudible) but they put a stringent requirement on it. Because of the lawsuit in Maui, because they stopped looking at it as an injection well. And that's the difficulties now, because that lawsuit impacted not only Maui County the entire state. Because it becomes—and the way they define it, anything that deeper in depth than the width is considered injection well. And that's their definition. Therefore you cannot use seepage pits anymore. It's unfortunate but, you know, when they write these laws, we pay for the price of, you know, these interpretations. But we're going to continue working with Department of Health to get a reasonable affordable solution. Page 15 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. And then right now most of our sewer rates, I mean they're based on water consumption. MR. MANSOUR: I don't think so. Not for residential, they get a flat fee. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It is still a flat fee? MR. MANSOUR: Yeah. It's a special fund $40.00 a month for residential. Commercial you pay I think you pay $40 to $42.00 fixed and then after the first 8,000 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That was the bill we passed, yeah? MR. MANSOUR: Yeah. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Come back to that bill too, I mean they came in and they asked us to do the bill, because they didn't have enough funds. And so we worked on the bill, and you know, the community didn't love it. The bill is going too up, it staggered. It was supposed to be a one, two, three, punch, instead it was a one, two, three, four, five punch just to lessen the blow a little bit. But it is frustrating to hear you still don't have enough funds, and I know its budget season. But to hear that we still don't have the funding even though we passed the bill in 2019, to incrementally raise the finances for the department. And I know there was only some areas covered by those funds, not just for everything. But at the same time it does beg the question, we increased the funding and they laid it out in a plan that showed them catching up within three to five years. MR. MANSOUR: You could plant the seed, but the seed is not going to germinate for another five years or so. So what you're doing, you planted that seed just for minor type of work, not the full picture. MR. TAKAMURA: Yeah, but what wasn't explained. I think clearly to you guys is, the fee increase only covers O and M (Operations and Maintenance). It doesn't cover CIP (Capital Improvement Projects). MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes, it was just to but like problems, things that are existing MR. TAKAMURA: The fee increase was only to take the O and M cost off General Fund. MR. MANSOUR: That's the operating cost. And totally has not taken it out, because we're still being subsidized by $2 million almost, by the General Fund. And eventually the goal is to wash away the General Fund, that's why when you plant the seed it germinates in five years. Then you get rid of that General Fund. Page 16 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 Then you'd be sustainable as far as the operating cost as it exist today, not as it exist in the future. That's where you need to implement the connection fees. The connection fees is the other vehicle that's going to get you the capital improvement, and the expansion in these Wastewater Treatment Plants. Think about it, the county's got so much money into building these sewer lines. I keep saying it, because every gallon goes in there it takes a capacity, eventually that line is going to be filled. Now you're going to be forced to build another line next to it, 30-40 miles long, a $1,000 a foot. How are you going to come up with the money, you're talking about billions of dollars. So have we not planned for it ahead, now you're going to play catch-up, but you're not going to have the money to fund it. So at least two wrongs don't make it right, let's plan it right now. MR. TAKAMURA: And the enterprise fund concept, based on how much we collect with sewer fees, will also cover our CII'. Just like Honolulu and County of Maui. Right now when our CIP money comes from General Fund, we compete with all the other departments. So we may get $10 million a year, even though Council passed $42 million. We might get $10 million funded by the General Fund. So enterprise fund if we need $42 million, we got to have the sewer fees available to cover not only operations and maintenance, but the debt service when we do borrow money. So when Dora and I look at the revenues that come in from sewer fees, five dollar a month increase with the current number of users generates $2 million. If we were to use that $2 million to do a CIP project, and we pay that project over 20 years, it's like a $40 million project. So if you look at say Pahala, $40 million, and we borrow money to pay it off over 20 years we've got to raise sewer fees by five dollars a month. Of course as we go further and we get more hookups, you know, we can generate more revenue. MR MANSOUR: That's why you need a global plan, a vision. And then what you do you calculate the cost that it's going to take to run all the facilities up to date. And you take the cost and you look at the number of users, and the number of people that would potentially have beneficial use, and that's how you set your structure. Because we're not in the business of making profit, but we are in the business to meet compliance. And to meet compliance it will cost money, and somebody is going to pay for it, and it's going to be across the board. So we could be able to at least protect our environment, and create a better culture and atmosphere to our future generations. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Because it was brought up your enterprise zone, is it just the people within that area that can be serviced by existing infrastructure or does it branch out pass that? MR MANSOUR: The $40 is just for the people that's connected. Page 17 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And we're talking about this enterprise zone idea that has been brought up. MR. MANSOUR: The enterprise zone it could be for user beneficial use, so it could be set to charge everybody within the island that have the potential for that benefit. Because you have environmental benefit. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The benefit being connection to any sewer system, or an existing sewer system? MR. MANSOUR: Any future sewer system. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Any future sewer system so basically that's every person on this island. MR. MANSOUR: Every person on the island. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Would be paying MR. MANSOUR: Because there's environmental benefit to everybody. So if you're looking at from environmental benefit, it's going to benefit everybody that lives here. Think of it as the park, you know, you could have user fees for the parks because anybody in the island that lives here have the benefits of that park. Similar to the wastewater, and the protection of our environment. Everybody is benefiting from having a better lifestyle, a better environment here within the island and that comes at a cost. We need to acknowledge it. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It's an interesting idea, I'll give you that. But it's not really in front of us right now, so I'm not going to get too deep into that. MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, we need to think about it. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm guessing it would be hard to tell everybody who has no ability connect to the sewer, that you need to pay a sewer fee to help fund everyone who does have ability to connect. Given that there's a requirement to put a cesspool, or replace a cesspool with a septic tank if you don't have connection to a sewer by a certain date. That's going to be hard to sell. MR. MANSOUR: But if you want to have a better environment that benefits everybody that lives here, that doesn't pollute our oceans, doesn't pollute our ground water. And the reason they're going to benefit from it is because they're going to have better quality in the drinking water they're going to drink. Think about these cesspools where do think it's flowing, into the ground water. And you know what they do with that groundwater, they pump it back up. Guess who drinks it, the same people that's flushing it. Page 18 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, I was thinking about that. (inaudible) it all goes down. MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, it's going to come back up. So if they want to have a better environment, better groundwater, everybody's going to pay for it. It's going to hit everybody, it's going to impact everybody. And these are not good water to drink. I mean literally it gets mixed effluent. So let's start thinking outside the box. Let's establish a fund that's going to benefit the entire island. Let's not look at it as individual benefits. You need to look at what benefits the masses and go for it. You may have a few that's going to object, but you're doing it for the sake of the whole, not the one. So I hope I look to all of your leadership to support that program, because it takes leaders to get us where we need because we've been failing. So you know, failure is not in my book, I hope it's not in your book. And let's start looking at things that could benefit the community as one. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. We'll see, we'll see. Thank you. MS. LEE LOY: Just a quick one. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: Just around that beneficial use, right. I think if we do take it from a lens of our near shore water qualities, everybody should pay into that, because if we're going to benefit our coastal waters it improves everybody. And so even—and this is just a little off track but there was overwhelming support to preserve open space. And two percent of our fund, goes into preservation of open space. What makes no sense to me, is we're not putting that same kind of commitment to protect the open space because we're allowing our wastewater systems to fall on that back burner, and not getting the kind of support that they need. And so I think there is a mechanism to re -message this, where you could get island -wide support of it. That's just my final thoughts, I know we're running late. So Chair, thank you for letting me plant that seed. Because I didn't vote for that bill to increase sewers, because it was the same old playbook. And I told the Administration at that time, we've got to find another way. That's just my thoughts, I'm sure there'll be more conversations in future legislation coming forward. So Chair, I yield. Thank you, for your time. MR. TAKAMURA: Can I add my two cents? When the treatments plants are new, there's hardly no maintenance, right. But because they're so old, we're running operations as if we're running a five day operation. The staffing levels that we have is all five-day operations. But actually, our treatment plants run seven days a week. And we don't have the staff on the weekends to maintain the facilities. So every two days of the week we falling behind, because the plants are Page 19 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 all in the older stage of their life. So one of things when he says we need staff support, is that we're still under this philosophy that we're running a five day a week operation. Until we build new plants again, we're running this thing seven days a week. And we need the staff to operate that way. MR. MANSOUR: We are 365 a year operation, 24/7. To some extent that's true, when we have a new facility it doesn't need maintenance. But to be honest with you, maintenance starts the first day you build the facility. Because that's where you establish your procedures, that's where you establish your protocol, that's where you establish when you're going to turn the switch on and off, because that will extend the life span of that facility. In addition to that, we've got pretreatment program that we're lacking. Under the law we're supposed to have it back in 2008. Pretreatment per ground that means every restaurant, every hotel, every industrial, and every commercial, They're supposed to be pretreating their effluent, before they discharge it to the plant. And that raises up the cost of the O and M on the plant, because now you have to deal with the fat and the grease and the chemical that comes to the plant that could damage and kill our microorganisms that help us to treat. And that pretreatment plan does not exist. And we're going to get hit by the Department of Health and EPA, they already told us. They put us on notice. Because we supposed to be in comply back in 2008. So there's so many challenges, hopefully let's twist them to opportunities and get you guys where you need to be. CHR. RICHARDS: Actually, it's to get you guys to where we need to be. This is why you're here today, Ramzi. This is why we had this conversation. I'm glad you guys could come in. I appreciate, Eric, for giving the report, very comprehensive, stimulated a lot of conversation obviously. And that was a quite comprehensive report, which is what we need. Quick couple of things, because I wanted a high overview. We got pretty detailed on some stuff, so thank you on that one. Looking through your numbers here, collection concerns, collection systems concerns, there's about $80 million worth of projects you listed here. Then you said plus others. So I'm looking probably $100 million the first swing, the biggest maintenance you're talking about is that a fair statement? MR. MANSOUR: That is as of today, based on what we have. We have not completed televising all the sewer collection, so yes, just to get us started. CHR. RICHARDS: That's the first swing. And the numbers that I was listening to, it sounds like we have capacity somewhere between 50 and 75 percent. We're using, we still have more capacity, relatively speaking, available if it was functioning at full function. But we don't have the infrastructure to get the sewage to the plant, is that a fair statement? MR. MANSOUR: That is fair. The surrounding infrastructure has not expanded to capture some of these people on the cesspools. Page 20 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. And where that's leading is a conversation about some of this federal money coming forth. Because if we can find a very compelling reason, and this is, to seek big money, and this is, for our county quickly to jump start us and get going, that's what I think we will do. And I appreciate bringing up this conversation, Ramzi. You and I have had conversations on this before. We knew we had a problem, but I think you articulated it, probably the best we've heard it. And so what we can do to help is advocate for the right public policy that would support this going forward. And without question, we need some sort of funding mechanism for the capital improvement. Whatever that may be. And I had some ideas, and I shared those with you, Ramzi. But this stimulated that conversation to go forth. So we are running late today, and I appreciate the frank conversation about this. We're not pau talking story about this obviously, but if we can advocate for some good federal funding to help us take a big swing at that. Your document here is great, it also gave a list of what we need to get done. Concerning your—under your recommendations. That's basically your punch list for what you want to get done to deliver, and how we go forward with the department. Is that a fair statement? MR. MANSOUR: That is fair statement. That's something to start. CHR. RICHARDS: So a place to start. Obvious this is going to be a living document, because there's so much work to get done. So what we will do is, or what I'll be doing, and I assume the Council is going to help support this, is looking for that $100 million you need to take a big swing at starting to fix things. And then we have to figure out as a Council how to fund Environmental Management to take care of the capital improvement. We'll work on the fee side along the way, but we got to take the big swing at the capital investment. And we got to get that done, much sooner rather than later. So is there anything else to add before we close file, and there's so much don't go down any rabbit holes. MR. MANSOUR: No, I just want to thank my team, particularly Peter. He assisted at doing the presentation with minimal supervision. Kudo to Peter, and staff. We got a lot of work ahead of us, and hopefully with your support and leadership we can start coming up to speed and getting things done. CHR. RICHARDS: Sounds like Waste Management, is like Agriculture 24/7, 365, right. MR. MANSOUR: That's true. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. So with that, we have a motion on the floor MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: One more question. Page 21 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 CHR. RICHARDS: Sure. A quick one. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Real brief, sorry, thank you. What is the water from the Kona treatment facility, the water quality R-1 or R-2? MR MANSOUR: Right now currently is it could met R-2, because it's going through oxidation and disinfection chlorination. There's certain requirements for the R-2, also coliform, we have to meet feco matter for testing. I think they like it to be below 23 parts per million, I think. Twenty three units per liter of coliform of fecal testing. I think our BOD (Biochemical Oxygen Demand) is within 10 milligrams per liter currently TSS which is Total Suspended Solids. It's also 10 milligrams per liter should be meeting the requirement. The water currently could be used—even with R-3, you could use it for ag use, as long it's not for human consumption. I've used it. In California we had 7,000 acres. We had R-3 water for hay for cattle feed; (inaudible) to hay to cotton. You can plant anything you want as long it's not a human consumption. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Meaning you can't eat it. MR. MANSOUR: You can't eat it. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You could wear it, you could make into products whatever it could be but you just can't eat it. MR. MANSOUR: Right. And that's R-3 water? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So what we have now is? MR. MANSOUR: We have R-2 water quality. So R-2 water quality as I did on prior presentation, is you could use it for golf courses either subsurface or spray after hours. The difference between R-1 and R-2, is R-1 you can spray it with people around, R-2 you have restrictions, you can't expose the public to the R-2. But you could do it after hours, or when people are not around for the golf courses. So there's ways to utilize it for that purpose. And if you do it subsurface you could use it anytime of the day. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Alright we have a motion on the floor to close file on Communication 137. All in favor signify by saying aye." Page 22 RAWEEMC-4 March 16, 2021 Vote on Comm. 137: The motion to close file on Comm. 137 was carried by Filed the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas and Chair Richards — 6. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung, David, and Kierkiewicz — 3. Excused: None. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. (There were none.) BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. (There were none.) ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 5:51 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to MENT: adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Kdneali`i-Kleinfelder and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas and Chair Richards — 6. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung, David and Kierkiewicz — 3. Excused: None. CHR. RICHARD S : We are in adjournment. Approved: g Mr. Herbert NV `Tim' Richards, III, Chair Regenerative Agriculture, Water, Energy and Environmental Management Committee HR/rk (Date) Page 23