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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN COUNCIL 2021-04-21 2020-2022 Special Hawaii County Council 11th Session Special Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawaii April 21, 2021 CALL TO The special meeting of the Hawaii County Council was called to order at ORDER: 11:00 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Vice Chair Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member (came in later) Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (came in later) Absent& Excused: Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 16: REQUESTS THE FORMATION OF AN AD HOC COMMITTEE TO APPOINT A NEW COUNTY AUDITOR From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated November 17, 2020, requesting the formation of an ad hoc committee to review applications, conduct interviews, and score applicants in order to identify a list of candidates who will advance to a round of interviews and final decision by the County Council. Waived: GOREDC Postponed: December 23, 2020, and April 7, 2021 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 (Note: There is a motion by Ms. Kierkiewicz, seconded by Ms. Lee Loy, to close file on Comm. 16.) ; and Comm. 16.1: From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated March 30, 2021, transmitting a report of the ad hoc committee's findings and recommendations. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair, for the opportunity, and I just wanted to take the time to share information with my colleagues and the community of the very expensive and deliberate process that was developed by the County Auditor ad hoc committee. And the candidates that we have elevated to continued dialogue with the Council are going to be available and ready to connect with us. So, thank you, Chair, for the latitude. On December 23rd, 2020, at a County Council meeting, an ad hoc committee was formed for the purposes of finding candidates to fill the vacant County Auditor position. Members of that committee included Council Members Holeka Inaba, Heather Kimball, Sue Lee Loy, and myself as Chair of this committee. The ad hoc committee had its first meeting Friday, January 22nd, via Zoom where we really developed the plan of action and timeframe for implementation. Everything was discussed, including how would we go about marketing this employment opportunity as well as designing the interview process and scoring rubric for applicants. We took out advertisements in the Hawaii Tribune-Herald, West Hawaii Today, and Star Advertiser, which yielded us a total of 13 applicants. We also took advantage of social media, published promotional graphics, and distributed a press release to media outlets statewide. We wanted everyone to know that this opportunity was available. The deadline for folks to submit applications was February 12d', 2021. Like I mentioned earlier, 13 individuals contacted our Clerk's Human Resources Technician, Iris Murakami, to indicate their interest. Of those individuals, 11 people were qualified to advance to the interview round with the ad hoc committee. A qualified applicant submitted required documentation, including a cover letter, resume, evidence of relevant certification as prescribed in our Charter, three letters of recommendation, and a list of references. We moved really quickly to convene interviews with the applicants. They were all invited to a 30-minute interview session with ad hoc committee members on February 22nd. We asked a range of questions to gauge their education and training, work experience, knowledge, abilities and skills, interests, attitude. Page 2 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 From there, the ad hoc committee did deliberate on discussions with these individuals in which we referred to our scoring rubric and advanced the top six scores to a second round of interviews with the committee. And just for everyone's knowledge, this first interview, we asked every applicant the same set of questions so that we could score them appropriately. Those advanced to the second round, we were able to have more of a dialogue with these individuals where we asked follow-up questions based on responses they provided during the first round of interviews or any of the material that was contained in their application packet. Second round of interviews was conducted Monday, March 1st, again via Zoom. We, again, had 30 minutes with each of the candidates. And the following day, we sent them a couple of case-study questions related to auditing here in Hawaii County, which again provided additional information for how we could best determine who to elevate to conversations with this body. Based on the interviews and the submittals by the top six candidates, the ad hoc committee had a unanimous recommendation of advancing Mr. Tyler Benner and Mr. John Cashmon for further discussion with the Council and potential appointment, which brings us to today. I can tell you that both of these individuals really have an incredibly in-depth understanding of the auditing world. And what I really appreciated about them was their motivation. They weren't motivated for getting awards for their work. They really do have a passion for helping individuals really reach their potential. And they just really want to elevate transparent government—government that is working efficiently and for the people—and that truly came across in our conversations with them. I also loved how they really felt that they could immerse themselves into Hawaii Island's community and leveraging their strengths and expertise and really becoming part of community fabric. I want to thank my fellow ad hoc committee members—Mr. Inaba, Ms. Kimball, Ms. Lee Loy—and our incredible staff, the Clerk's office, for helping us throughout this process. There was no guidebook for how we would proceed. And so, I just really appreciate everyone being really open-minded for how we could proceed so that we could attract as many applicants as possible, so we could make a really good decision to fulfill this really important position within our County. So, that being said, Chair David, I believe Mr. Cashmon is joining us right now via Zoom. And we all have been provided copies of their resumes. And if we can, I would love for him to introduce himself to the Council. Page 3 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 (Note: At this time, John Cashmon, applicant, came forward to address the members of the Council, via videoconferencing.) MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Aloha, Mr. Cashmon. Great to see you. MR. CASHMON: Good morning. Thank you. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes. If you'd be so kind as to introduce yourself and share with us why you think you would be the best fit to fulfill the role of County Auditor for Hawaii County. MR. CASHMON: I'm John Cashmon. I've been an auditor in government for approximately 30 years. I've had experiences as a staff auditor, as an in-charge, as an audit manager, and as a director of internal audits for several organizations. I have established three different internal audit departments during my career. I believe that I would be the best candidate for the County Auditor's position because I've got a wide variety of experiences. I've audited at Federal, State, and local levels. I've audited in very large organizations and very small ones. Probably the largest organization I've audited in was the government of the District of Columbia. I've also audited for the City of Boston and the San Diego Unified School District. So, I've had some very large experiences. And I've also audited in various small organizations also. I've learned over time to work with people. It doesn't do the auditor any good to produce this really great report but then not have the recommendations implemented because either you didn't—as the auditor, I didn't understand what the folks in the department or the agency was trying to tell me. And then, it may also be that they don't understand what my recommendations are or don't believe that they can be implemented. So, I've learned to work with folks, and in some cases, we've had some really good working relationships and others not so good. But that's pretty much my background. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Cashmon, for that. I'm going to open it up to questions right now from Council Members. Anything, Council Members? Mr. Chung, go ahead. MR. CHUNG: Good morning or good afternoon, Mr. Cashmon. My name is Aaron Chung. I'm a Council Member here. I just have a few prefacing questions. What are you doing right now, I mean in terms of employment? Are you currently employed? MR. CASHMON: Right now, I'm looking for employment. I'm effectively retired. I was laid off from my position at San Diego Unified. And after that, I Page 4 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 moved back to Connecticut to help resolve some family issues. Those issues have now been resolved, and I'm back out in the market and very seriously looking for employment. MR. CHUNG: Okay, so you don't mind coming to Hawaii or—I mean, that's kind of a silly question. But you don't mind uprooting yourself from wherever you are and coming across the country and the ocean to Hawaii, right? MR. CASHMON: Right, yeah. No, I don't have any problem with that at all at this point. MR. CHUNG: All right. And you listed some professional references, and I'm going to go over them because we don't know what capacities they occupied. But Andra Greene, who would that be? MR. CASHMON: Okay. Andra is the General Counsel for San Diego Unified School District. MR. CHUNG: Okay. MR. CASHMON: And I consider her a colleague, and she was my former supervisor for a short period of time when I first arrived at San Diego Unified. MR. CHUNG: Okay. And InesI don't know if you pronounce it that way, but Ines Abitria? MR. CASHMON: Ines Abitria, yes. Ines worked for me at San Diego Unified. She was one of my staff auditors and MR. CHUNG: So, also a professional colleagueI mean, in your professional capacity. These are all people who know you in your professional capacity, not just character references or anything like that. MR. CASHMON: Yes. No, they're all professionals. Well, one, Rosie Dean Gill could probably provide you a reference as a background reference or a personal reference. MR. CHUNG: All right. MR. CASHMON: I've known Rose for almost 20 years. MR. CHUNG: Well, in your capacity as, or in your various capacities, how many, if you can recall, formal written audits have you prepared for whomever you were working for? I mean, can you recall? Or is it too many to recall? Or how often would you submit these, or be called upon to prepare formal reports? Page 5 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MR. CASHMON: I've probably done about 150 formal audits throughout my career. As far as presenting them, it's not like a product coming off an assembly line where we can do it once a month or once every couple of weeks. That depends on the audit and the scope of the audit and also what we're finding. If the audit requires that we—if satisfying our objective requires that we dig into the evidence that a department or an agency may have, it may take us a little longer. MR. CHUNG: And have you done any or sought any background information on Hawaii County? MR. CASHMON: I've looked at the local newspaper website, and I've looked at the County's website. MR. CHUNG: All right. Would you be able to tell us, and I know this is very difficult without knowing much, but how often you would be able to provide the County with an audit? I know that's very difficult to answer because it depends on the scope of the audit and things like that. But do you think you might be able to responsibly churn out audits? MR. CASHMON: I would expect that myself and my staff would be able to do, each of us, at least four audits a year. MR. CHUNG: Four audits a year, okay. At least. MR. CASHMON: I know that doesn't sound like much, but if there are four performance audits for each of us, that's a huge load. In considering the time off that you have and people really do want vacation, it gets a little compacted. And I would work with the Council maybe not to have Yellow Book audits. But there are other ways that are acceptable within audit standards to report on various things. We can do evaluations. We can do inspections that are not as labor intensive as a Yellow Book audit would be. MR. CHUNG: Right. And you understand that although there needs to be some level of, I guess, cooperation between you and County government, you'll generally be insulated from or isolated from, whichever is correct, from government operations because your job, if you are selected, would be to take an objective look at how County operations are going. I think I've only had one personal conversation with our former auditor during all of the six years that she and I were here. So, I'm just wanting to point that out, okay? I mean, there's no buddy-buddy kind of arrangement, right, because you are going to be tasked with being very objective and sometimes critical towards those in government. Right? MR. CASHMON: I understand that, sir. I'm not immune to being in a situation where I am the only person or my office would be really independent from everybody else in the organization, hopefully not so much from the Council Page 6 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 because we report to you. But I used to kid some of my staff that I would say, "If you want a friend, get a dog." Because as an auditor, you generally don't have a whole lot of friends. MR. CHUNG: Very good. MR. CASHMON: You're not inside the organization. There are either other auditors or outside the organization itself. MR. CHUNG: I'm glad you said that. That's very important. Okay, I don't have any more questions right now. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Ms. Kimball, go ahead. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to start, before I ask the question of Mr. Cashmon, to mahalo Council Member Kierkiewicz for her leadership with this committee. She kept us on task. It was very well organized. And above all, I feel like the selection of the candidates that we forwarded to the full Council was a very robust and defendable process. Everything was very strategic and well measured. And so, I'd like to feel like we brought forth to the full Council the best candidates for the job, which includes Mr. Cashmon. I did want to give him an opportunity to respond to a couple of the questions that we asked as part of our process. The first one recognizing that this is not just an auditor position where you will be conducting audits, which he has plenty of experience doing, but it is also a management position. So, Mr. Cashmon, can you talk a little bit about your experience as a manager and how you've dealt with issues with employees in the past in a constructive way? MR. CASHMON: Oh, cool. Throughout my career, I have been a manager at some level. Even my job at Stars and Stripes, when I first started off, I was a staff auditor and I was promoted to an in-charge. And there I would manage two or three other people, depending on the scope of the project, but it would be on a project basis. As a full-time manager, I've managed staff from everywhere, from one to eleven people. And these are all professional audit positions: accountants and analysts. As far as—and I think most of the people that I've managed would say that I was a reasonably good manager and I was fair. I'm not a micromanager. When I give a project to somebody to do, it's their project. And I give them the ability to—as long as they meet the audit objectives or the project's objectives, I'd give them pretty much free reign on how they want to do that. Now, of course, oversight. I will talk with them on a regular basis to make sure that they're on track and if they run into any problems or questions. I don't have a problem sitting down and working with them. If they run into an issue that Page 7 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 they're having problems resolving, work with them to resolve it. I'm not above sitting down with an auditor and playing staff auditor and doing the lower-level testing so that the auditor can move on and do some other things related to the proj ect. As far as discussion with people about their performance, I try to do that on a regular basis as part of just reviewing what they do and trying to give them helpful hints and ideas on how to resolve some of the issues they may have run into. As far as performance issues generally, I let people know when I'm not happy with their performance and why I'm not happy. And I will work with them to bring themselves up to correct performance. Now, I know a lot of governments have a very specific system on how to deal with poor performance. I would definitely follow that—whatever system Hawaii County has but I will also let people know, "Hey, look, I don't want you in a position where I have to do a performance improvement plan or, worst case, terminate you. So, whatever issues we're having, let's get them resolved really quickly so that we can move on." But if necessary, I have terminated people in the past. And if it's warranted, I will do it again if I have to. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Cashmon. The other question I wanted to ask about is auditing can often seem like an uncomfortable process for those about to be audited. You did touch on it in your initial introduction, but I'd like to give you a chance to expand upon your process for engaging the department or whatever subject area that is going to be subject to an audit, how you go through that process of building the trust and building the relationships to take them back through that process effectively. MR. CASHMON: Start with the project announcement. I will let people know, okay, if I'm not doing the work, then who is responsible for doing the work and what their contact information is. We'll sit down at the entrance conference and go over what the audit process is and how it's going to work in this particular area. I definitely let people know that if they have any questions, they should ask. And if they don't get a really solid answer, then they should elevate the question to whoever's in charge of the audit or myself so they can get it resolved. One of the things I practice is what I call "no surprise audits." With the exception of fraud and illegal activities, the managers at the lowest level possible will know "This is what we're finding. This is what it should be, and please let us know if it's wrong." Now, most of the time I try to do that in what I call a"tentative finding and recommendation"where we'll outline what we found. It's very brief: what the criteria is for our audit finding and what we have for recommendations. We'll give that to managers and say, "Okay, this is what we're finding. Do you agree or don't agree?" And it gives them an opportunity early on in the process to—if they're seeing something that they can correct very quickly, it would be Page 8 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 like, "Oh, let's get this corrected." Hopefully, it's "Let's get this corrected," and at the end of the audit I can say, "Here's the finding but we're not making recommendations because the management department has already corrected it." I try to work with people. I try to be open as much as I possibly can. In one of the positions I've held at(inaudible) university system, one of the chief financial officers for one of the four universities I audited, if I didn't hear—Frank and I developed a very professional relationship where if I didn't hear from him once a day, at least once a day, it was because Frank was either out sick or on vacation. But otherwise, he would talk to me every day about something, like what was my opinion, and I would give him an answer and then stand behind it. I'd tell people, generally if you have a question, even if it's not about the audit area but it's about something else, let me know. I will try to give you an answer. Now, in some cases, I may defer because I can't answer it because it would impact my audit independence. But in other cases, within the standards, I can certainly help people and that's what I try to do, try to make it as easy as possible to get through the process. And even the auditors don't like being audited. I've been on both sides. And as my mother told me when I—and both my parents told me when I was growing up, at Christmas time it's always better to give than to receive. Well, believe me, with audits it's always better to give than to receive. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Cashmon. MR. CASHMON: You're welcome. MS. KIMBALL: That's all the questions I have for now. Madam Chair, I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair David. And like my colleague Ms. Kimball, I do want to elevate a couple of questions that we did ask during our interview process to help in deliberations by this body. Mr. Cashmon, great to see you again. Wondering if you could provide us with a couple of examples of an audit that you completed and how that led to improvement within the organization. MR. CASHMON: One that immediately comes to mind is when I was working for the government in the District of Columbia. I did an audit of changes to the tax roll, the real property tax roll. There were some concerns that the changes may not always be auditable and appropriate. Now, we did not look at how the assessors were valuing the properties. That was outside of our scope. And quite frankly, it's outside of my expertise area. Page 9 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 But we looked at—we found a number of internal control issues that could allow for somebody to get in, make changes to the tax rolls, have bills generated that would either lower someone's tax or significantly raise it and then be able to get out of the system or(inaudible)the system back to what it should have been without a whole lot of people being able to detect it. We found that there were a number of systemic weaknesses in the system, and we made a number of recommendations. Ultimately, the recommendations were—management did accept the recommendations. They weren't really happy with all of them but they accepted them. And to my knowledge, almost all of them, if not all, by now have been fully implemented. I will also tell you that this audit, somebody gave it to the Washington Post—leaked it to the Washington Post while it was still in draft form. And the audit appeared on a Friday morning, on the front page of the A section of the Post, which is not where you want to be because the A section is the national section of the Post. And they did a pretty good job about writing up the audit, but it was all disconcerting to look at the paper first thing in the morning and see your work displayed all over the Post. Another audit I did was the Boston Police Department, their drug control unit. Literally, they had no controls. If somebody came in and said, "Oh, yeah, when this cop arrested me, he seized $50,000," and all you have here, you're saying, "All I have is 50,"there would have been no way for the officers to back up and say, "Whoa, wait a minute. That's not what we did." And they had no paper trail, no real backup, and no documentation. Went in and did the audit. Actually, did an audit on the inventory of the drug controls, both the seized cash they had and the actual drugs. We found out that the recordkeeping was not great but it was within acceptable levels. It was a little bit crazy because, in one case, we went to safety deposit boxes in a bank and we opened up, like, six very large safe deposit boxes where they had been storing cash. When the audit came out, we made it I think it was something in the order of 50 or 60 recommendations to the Police Department. They accepted all of the recommendations, basically, almost sight unseen and made the changes. When the drug control unit moved from the police headquarters, which was a very old building that had very poor storage, they got to a new modern building that had significant storage space for them. They also implemented like a bank deposit vault—an overnight deposit vault so that when drugs and money were seized overnight, the officers come in, they follow the procedures to document the evidence, they put it in sealed evidence bags, and then the police officers in the morning or in the drug control unit will come in and inventory the evidence, inventory the cash. And ultimately, we made a couple of recommendations, that the Police Department should not be holding cash at all. Those we also worked through Page 10 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 with the separate county district attorney's office, and they got the court to approve it so that the Police Department didn't have to hold the cash, that they could bring in a deposit slip that said, okay, "On this date, the Boston Police Department deposited `x' number of dollars in a specific account, and that specific account" Then that was, basically, all of the seized money. If the defendant was found innocent, the Police Department will cut him a check. If not, the money stays in the account. And then once a year, they would pull out all of the successful cases, the money from that, and deposit it into the city's General Fund revenues where they could use it for various equipment for the drug control unit. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Cashmon. A couple more questions. I'm sure by now you are familiar with audits that our County Auditor has completed in the past. I'm just curious around how these audits will inform your work potentially as our County Auditor. MR. CASHMON: I would use the (inaudible). And certainly going through the auditsI know some of them are a little bit dated now but what I would do is go back through and say, "Okay, if we're looking at"—for example, I remember the one about the human resources. If we were going back through and looking at those audits, if we're going to do another audit of human resources, I would definitely look at those to make sure that, okay, what has the prior auditor looked at. What were her findings? Also, how are those findings going to impact the objective of our audit? And then, work with them. In some cases, we would include the audit findings or the recommendations in our report to follow up, depending on how close they were to our objectives. That would be my initial use. Others is just to get a flavor of what's going on in the departments because, in some cases as an auditor reading the reports, I get a little bit different sense of what's going on than maybe somebody in the general public would. But it would certainly help to inform objectives on what I should be looking at in a particular department. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Cashmon. MR. CASHMON: And if it was a fairly recent audit, I would say, okay, well, the auditor said this area seems to be okay. So, I might say, okay, maybe we don't have to look at that as hard as we would otherwise. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Assuming you were offered the position, what is the earliest you could start? MR. CASHMON: I would think sometime between the 15'h of July and the I"of August. I know that sounds like an exceptionally long time, but I'm actually moving about 6,000 miles away. I've done this once before and it was crazy. So, Page 11 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 I'm trying to hopefully minimize the crazy. And with COVID (coronavirus disease) and everything else, it's really hard to get things done around here. I don't know what it's like in Hawaii. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. And last question: How do you define community? How would you immerse yourself into the Hawaii Island community fabric? MR. CASHMON: Number 1, by doing my job. Number 2, I've worked with the Boy Scouts before. I'm an Eagle Scout. So, I would probably get into the scouting order stationed in Hawaii as quickly as I could and also look for other organizations that I might be able to be a part of. I know being the County Auditor you kind of stick out. So, people want to know what's going on and what you're doing, and some of that I would be able to talk about and some of it I wouldn't. But certainly if they had questions, I could act as a sounding board if I had to. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Cashmon. Chair, I have no other questions at this time. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Anyone else? Mr. Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder, go ahead. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for being here today, sir. MR. CASHMON: Thank you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Good questions previously and your very thorough kind of fact sheet on your past employment. Your resume is pretty amazing, actually. You've got a depth of experience. What's your favorite book? MR. CASHMON: I don't think I have one particular book. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Or favorite writer. What's your favorite? MR. CASHMON: Crash novels, W. E. D. Green. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then, if you're going to come here, what would you do? I mean, do you like swimming? Do you golf? What's your deal? MR. CASHMON: I like camping,photography. Swimming, yes. I haven't been swimming in a while, but yeah, I do like to swim. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Do you fish? Page 12 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MR. CASHMON: Not really. I would like to learn how to play golf. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. MR. CASHMON: What I do now and what you'd call golf are two very different things. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I bet we golf the same way, then. What else do you do? What do you do in your spare time? What's your hobbies? MR. CASHMON: Photography,pretty much. Working with scouts has occupied a lot of my time. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. MR. CASHMON: I like to read. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Married? MR. CASHMON: Was. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Was married? MR. CASHMON: Yeah. I'm a widower. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Oh. Excuse me, sorry. I shouldn't ask those kinds of questions. And then, why Hawaii of all places? You saw the application, you said, "Yeah, this is my next step in life," or—what drew you to us? MR. CASHMON: I think it was the job, really. Hawaii is very nice to live in, but also you're on an island. And I've had friends that have been in the military that have been assigned to Hawaii, and they said being in Hawaii gets really old really quick unless you have something interesting to do. So, when I was looking, or when I saw the job, I said, okay. I looked at the website a little bit, and I said, "All right, that appears to be interesting. Let me see what I can do," and I just put in my application. It wasn't like a huge thing to, uh, "Oh, I've got to get to Hawai`i." Now, I can tell you that winter in Hawaii is a whole lot easier than winter in Connecticut. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes, it is. MR. CASHMON: To give you an idea, today we started off at about 60 degrees this morning. It's now down to around 45, and tomorrow it's not supposed to be any higher than 40. And we're going to have rain—we're having rain now and it's supposed to rain throughout the night and most of tomorrow. Page 13 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow. A very big difference, then. MR. CASHMON: Yeah. When I was looking at some of the weather reports for Hilo, it's like, "Okay, they don't ever seem to get below 60." I can deal with that. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: On a different note, recently the Legislature at the State level really kind of went after the State Auditor for, I think, digging in and really asking some hard questions of the Legislature itself. And I appreciate what the State Legislative Auditor does and how thoroughly is because it's exactly what we need if we're going to have a transparent government. So, what you said so far—and I've heard before, too—is you're not here to make friends. You're here to make things better and to figure out what process works and don't work and what's happening. And I really appreciate that comment that you made earlier: If you want a friend, go get a dog. So, with your resume and what questions have been asked so far, I just wanted to ask a little bit lighter questions to get a feel for you as a person. I'm a little bit different in that approach. But mahalo for your time today. I appreciate you being here. Thank you. MR. CASHMON: Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Mr. Chung, go ahead. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, thank you. Mr. Cashmon, it's Aaron Chung again. You have a rather impressive resume and a wealth of professional experience. If you are selected, what would be your attitude regarding mentoring the people within the auditor's department? MR. CASHMON: I don't have a problem with mentoring. I've done that in several instances that I've been in. One of the people that's on my references list, Rosie Dean GillI ended up mentoring Rose for a short period of time when she worked for me. Even my last position with San Diego Unified, because I had a different type of experience than most of my staff did, I would mentor them going through the audit process. I learn as much from them as they do from me. Hopefully, what they learn from me is useful. But I've had a couple of people tell me that—in one case, one of my staff members said, "I wish you had been here 20 years ago when I was just starting here because I would be a whole different auditor." And the other one was a person from outside of my department at San Diego Unified who one day told me that—and I heard it in a couple of different places that she thought I was the best supervisor in the building, and that included the superintendent of the school. I asked her why and she just said, "Because you do an awful lot for your staff." I'm a servant manager where my staff comes first, and I will do whatever I have to do to make sure that my staff succeeds. Page 14 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MR. CHUNG: All right. Thank you. My next question and my last question of you is something I'm going to have to seek the guidance of Corp. (Corporation) Counsel first so that I don't ask an incorrect question. But as responsible appointing bodies, I think we have to try to get as much information as we can. If it is allowed, it might necessitate us going into an Executive Session unless your answer is no. Can I ask about criminal convictions or any misconduct done during the course of his employment? Am I able to ask that? And I don't know if thereI'm not insinuating that there is something like that, but if we do appoint someone and something happens on the job and we should have known about it, I think we I'd like to know. MR. CASHMON: Sir, I can tell you right now the answer is no, absolutely. MR. CHUNG: Okay, and that's it. All right. We don't need to go any further on that. All right. Okay, there you go. Perfect. But would we be able to ask something like that, Renee? (Note: At this time, Deputy Corporation Counsel Renee Schoen came forward to address the members of the Council.) MS. SCHOEN: Yeah, can I just answer? So, there are certain positions within the County for which we would want to do that type of background check. Certainly because this is a very public proceeding,the applicants, I would imagine, would want—may not want to answer that question because it's in public and there might be a privacy (inaudible). MR. CHUNG: Well, and that's why I said we could go into an Executive Session. But Mr. Cashmon answered the question like how I hoped he would answer it, anyway. So, okay, that's all I have to ask. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Mr. Inaba, go ahead. MR. INABA: Just for the record, I did send us a form just now via email for questions we can and cannot ask today. So, as we proceed, please reference that to keep us safe. Thank you. Chair, I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: First of all, I do want to thank my colleague Ashley Kierkiewicz. As was mentioned, she really kept us on task—and the other members of the ad hoc committee are nodding. We sometimes got emails the night before, and everybody dug in and got the work done. And it really was based on the Page 15 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 leadership from Ms. Kierkiewicz, but I, too, also want to thank my other ad hoc committee members for rolling up their sleeves along with the staff for putting together all of the information and all of the Zoom links. With that being said, I, too, tend to ask questions around more personal qualities. And so, I'll just kind of rapid-fire some questions, Mr. Cashmon, and then just so my colleagues can get a feel for what we experienced during the interview process. Mr. Cashmon, your favorite sandwich. MR. CASHMON: Steak and cheese. MS. LEE LOY: Your favorite superhero. MR. CASHMON: Don't have one. MS. LEE LOY: Your favorite time of the year. MR. CASHMON: Summer. MS. LEE LOY: And then your favorite holiday. MR. CASHMON: Thanksgiving. MS. LEE LOY: My final question, Mr. Cashmon. We've heard a number of your amazing qualities, but we also have to ask. We often have things that we could improve upon. So, in light of that, we heard about all of your fantastic assets. So, what area would you like to improve upon? MR. CASHMON: Oh, wow. There are several. I would like to be a better writer. I think I really need to learn how to give up an audit report. I want something that's perfect and sometimes just can't get there, so I need to know when to cut loose and just say, "Okay, this is it. We can't do any more with the report." And certainly, I would like to be better with some of the information technology that's currently available with government and the use of data analytics. MS. LEE LOY: Mr. Cashmon, thank you for joining us. Chair, I yield at this time. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else before we go? No? Mr. Cashmon, I'm Council Member Maile David. Aloha and welcome. I believe my colleagues have asked a lot of questions that was also on my mind and you've answered them. There's no doubt your qualifications speak for itself. I just have one question: In applying for a job, why Hawaii as your choice? Page 16 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MR. CASHMON: As I said before, the job really interested me. When I looked at it, I said, okay, this is something not only that I can do but that I can actually hopefully make a difference with. I'm in auditing in some respects to be able to make a difference and hopefully to improve an operation. So, that's what I'm looking to do, and I thought that this would be a great opportunity to do that. And I also like being a department director. I like the challenges that brings. So, being the County's auditor, and not only having my foot in the audit world but also having a foot in the administrative world, really challenges me. And that's one of the big reasons I've looked at the job and said, yes, I should apply for it. CHR. DAVID: I see. Well, thank you for that. You're looking for a challenge and that's always a good thing for people trying to expand into different areas. So, I really thank you for your participation today. And, Mr. Clerk. How are we going to—we're just going to take a break here and then move on? MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, when you're finished, we'll just have Mr. Cashmon sign off. CHR. DAVID: Okay. MR. HENRICKS: And when you're ready, we can bring the other candidate on board. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Cashmon, and I guess you can sign off now. MR. CASHMON: Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time and having me. CHR. DAVID: All right, mahalo. Do we take a recess now to put on the next, or he's ready? Okay. All right. Then, Mr. Benner? Mr. Benner, are you there? (Note: At this time, Tyler Benner, applicant, came forward to address the members of the Council, via videoconferencing.) CHR. DAVID: Good afternoon. Can you hear us? MR. BENNER: Yes, ma'am, I can. Can you hear me? CHR. DAVID: Thank you very much. Yes, we can and welcome to the special meeting of the Hawaii County Council. And what I would like to do right now, Mr. Benner, is I'm going to open it up to the Council Members to ask questions of you if that's okay. MR. BENNER: Okay. Page 17 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 CHR. DAVID: All right, thank you very much. Council Members? Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Aloha, Mr. Benner. Great to see you again. MR. BENNER: Thank you. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I think, to kick things off, maybe if you could do a brief introduction of yourself to this body and share with us why you are seeking the position of the County Auditor here for Hawaii County. MR. BENNER: Sure. So, about me, education, I have an associate's degree in pre-law studies, a bachelor's in business management, a master's in business administration with an emphasis in healthcare management. I have a project management certificate with an emphasis in IT (Information Technology) coordination. And as of November 2020, I'm currently enrolled in and progressing through the CIA 7.0 learning program for the Certified Internal Audit designation. Professionally, I worked for 16 years, 7 as the administrator in an early out receivables management company. We conducted revenue cycle analysis and managed approximately 325 million in revolving inventory through approximately 200 to 250 clients in industries such as city government, utilities, private business, and healthcare. And while I appreciated the experience and the opportunities that it afforded, I ultimately found it somewhat unfulfilling. I joined the City of Spokane in 2019 as the city's performance auditor. Spokane has a population of 220,000 people. It's the second largest city in Washington with an annual operating budget of approximately $1 billion. While at (inaudible), I've conducted engagements across the city in areas of development services, procurement, accounting, communication centers, and public safety. The objectives of the work have identified opportunities to increase revenues, decrease expenses, evaluate program efficiency and efficacy to expose fraud, loss, and waste and enhance public trust. Audit outcomes have addressed a range of issues from deficiencies in our procedures, both in theory and practice,policy creation and enhanced controls, improvements to our data security, and intelligence to help administration and counsel make informed decisions. I oversee the work of our compliance and tax auditor and serve as the primary liaison for annual accountability audits with the state. I enjoy the job, the people, and the community that it serves, but I also believe that people should be free to explore opportunities when they arise. I saw the Legislative Auditor position vacancy and applied because I feel that I'm well positioned. I have no political ambitions. I have no connections to any Page 18 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 resident or business interest, and I felt that my current work in government auditing prepared me for the difficult private-to-public business transition. I come to the islands often. So, in short, I was excited to be able to come in my productive years and serve the public interest. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Benner, what's your connection, if any,personally, professionally to Hawaii Island? MR. BENNER: I own a parcel on Hawaii Island, and I have a timeshare in Kauai. I have been coming out to the islands for about 10-12 years. I think Hawaii is an interesting case study for anybody who questions the delicacy or fragility of our planet or this socioeconomic atmosphere. I think all you have to do is look to a place with very defined boundaries, and you begin to realize the fragility that's attached to it. And so, I felt an instant connection when I started coming to the islands because I felt that there was a sense of community and a sense of preservation of those things to an extent that was not apparent in other areas of the country. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for sharing that. I'm sure you're familiar with the audits that our previous County Auditor in the office had done in the past. Just wondering how you would use those previous audits to direct your work should you be selected as County Auditor. MR. BENNER: Thank you for that question, Council Member. I would say that I have stayed willfully ignorant of the past audits that were conducted very purposefully so as not to perform a preconception about what the atmosphere might look like on the ground. With that said, generally I find value in past audits to find that remediation efforts have either been enacted or that they are completed, and to work towards those ends to ensure that the controls that are put into place to correct those things are long-standing controls, and that desk turnover or people or influences of sorts can't undo what should be a pretty iron- clad process, if that makes sense. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Benner. Chair, I'm going to yield to my colleagues at this time. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Ms. Kimball, go ahead. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Madam Chair. Aloha, Mr. Benner. Nice to see you again. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions that we did ask you in general in the first interview process. As you know, the auditor in Hawaii County will oversee staff as well as conduct audits. Can you talk a little bit about your management experience and give an example of when you had to deal with a difficult employee situation. Page 19 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MR. BENNER: Yeah, thank you for that. What I find is that employees that are not given adequate goals to reach for will generally find outlets that are not so productive. And so, I think that in the effort to build an effective and productive team, I think that the first thing that needs to be done is to sit down and evaluate the individual needs of the team members. My direct goal right now is the pursuit of and achieving that Certified Internal Auditor designation. The individual that I work alongside right now is a compliance and tax auditor who has ambitions of gaining a Certified Fraud Examiner designation. So, not assigning a single goal is important there. Letting that individual know that they have the resources that they need to be successful, that I'm able to support their individual desires, that is what I find keeps individuals on task. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you for that response. The second question I had was thinking a little bit about the fact that folks are often threatened by the audit process, especially those that you are about to audit. Can you talk a little bit about how you engage in that process of building relationships with folks that youa department, for example, if you're going to begin an audit with them? MR. BENNER: Well, one component that I like to integrate into every audit that I do is department-raised concerns, something that they bring to the table. I have my own work path that I need to follow and the things that I'm looking out for, but it's very important to make sure that they know that we are interested. They have insight that we don't. We're only looking at a sliver of an overall spectrum of activities that are taking place. And if they can get to the point where they can answer the question of what keeps you up at night, then what I think departments quickly realize is that we're on their side. We're looking to make meaningful improvements with them and not against them, and we've got a job to do, of course, but that we can reach the same place together. I don't think that if you ask any department director on a scale of 0 to 100, with 100 being there's absolutely no room for improvement, that any department director would answer that—worth their salt—would answer that they are 100 percent no opportunity for improvement. So, if they're willing to concede that there is an opportunity for improvement, then I would love to figure out what that would entail and how we can help move that needle. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Benner. My final question: You chose to submit your resume in a somewhat unusual style and format. What was your reasoning behind that choice, and describe what you're intending to convey with your resume in that format. MR. BENNER: Thank you for that. First of all, I am with—I'll toot my horn in this question. I am very proficient at Microsoft Excel, and the format that is in front of you there is a 100 percent blank template coming out of Microsoft Excel. Page 20 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 In that, what I was attempting to document is there is a linear progression. And a lot of times the way that resumes are structured are such that what am I doing today, and important things that you've done in the past are lost and buried. And so, in my resume, I tried to show that one activity was built on the other, that it create a holistic resume, and that a resume shouldn't necessarily just consist of profession and just a short time in the seat. You're not interviewing just a potential employee. You're interviewing a person. And so, elements of what I hold near and dear to me: my family, my health, the activities that I like to pursue. Those are you're not just you may get somebody conducting work from eight to five, but you're going to get a whole lot more in the person that you're bringing over. And so, I wanted to convey some level of that to you. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Benner. I did think it was an unusual format. Personally, it spoke to me, as a visual person. I thought it was a risky move, certainly. But I think one of the attributes that we're going to need to consider in an auditor is somebody who has the ability to communicate what they found in their audits. And what I found just in the demonstration of the resume in the form that it was presented, that there's a wealth of information in a single page in a very digestible format. And if I'm looking at what I want from an audit, that's it. So,just want to say that I thought that was a very interesting way to present your experiences and I appreciate it. I don't know if my colleagues will feel the same, but I wanted to put that out there. Mahalo, Chair. I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Mr. Inaba, go ahead. MR. INABA: Aloha, Mr. Benner. I just want to ask the question we asked of another candidate and that is, if given this position, what is the earliest start date you could commit to? MR. BENNER: Ideally, I would like June 15''. I understand there's a draft resolution for whoever may take that role to be sooner than that, but I do have important work that's open with my current employer. And in the same way that I would want to respectfully conclude those assignments with the County of Hawaii, I also would like to conclude those assignments with my current employer. MR. INABA: Thank you. And just in terms of how you plan to provide audits to us if given the position, what is your approach for writing up a report? MR. BENNER: Well, I think that what I would like to do is bring a smorgasbord of materials to Council and have them come to an idea of how they would like it presented. I am not attached, necessarily, to any one format. I think the information needs to be short and it needs to be concise. Long drawn-out reports may be appropriate at the department level, but in bringing that information Page 21 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 together, a department director brings some of those results to you and tries to secure resources in order to remediate those things. I think that on the other side of things, the Council should have a short and concise document that summarizes those needs and allows them to make informed decisions from both sides. MR. INABA: Wonderful. Thank you so much. That's all I have for you, Mr. Benner. Chair, I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Anyone else? Mr. Chung, go ahead. MR. CHUNG: Yeah. I just want to say that, in case the other applicant, Mr. Cashmon, is listening, I don't have any more questions here because almost all of my questions were answered, the type of questions that I asked of Mr. Cashmon. So, I don't want him to think that I'm being unfair or anything but, really, everything's been answered. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Benner, maybe you could provide an example for the Council of an audit you completed and how that led to improvement in an organization. MR. BENNER: One moment to digest this, Council Member. I just need to make sure that I'm preserving the anonymity of the departments to the individuals that would be involved in that. One of the—okay, one of the major issues that we are facing in today's world is cybersecurity issues. It goes without saying. One of the engagements that I was really thrust into just shortly after on boarding was we have got an incredible system, within the system an incredible staff and department that secures what we do. But what we've seen is a new line of attack against vendors that interact with our government entities because they're varied, their information is public, they're easily compromised, and they know—and individuals that wish to do harm know the timing of these things. They can estimate when payment should be made. So, we are not immune to loss of funds. We're not immune to compromises that can potentially result in less-than-desirable outcomes. And so, we got ahold of the situation where this type of activity had occurred, and we looked at where this breakdown happened. And what we found is that, in response to this, we were missing a component of two-factor authentication. And so, we were actually able to get these funds back. But in this case, we had to put into place a compensating control that now and to this day exists; requires a two- factor authentication when information is changed on the vendor's side of things before ACH (Automated Clearing House) or EFT (electronic funds transfer) payment can go out. Page 22 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 About three weeks after we put into place this change, a second attempt at a second vendor was made against us that would have cost the city three times more than the first instance. And again, we remained whole on the first instance. The second one was substantial, and we were able to stem that before it actually became an issue. And we haven't, to the best of our knowledge, come across that again since. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for sharing that. My final question is could you take a moment to define for us what community means to you and how you see yourself contributing to the community fabric of this island? MR. BENNER: Yeah, and again, in the ad hoc committee, I know that I had made mention about wanting to be involved in some benevolent causes, and I still need to take a step back and figure out what those causes would look like because I don't want any appearance that I'm aligning with anything that would then show favoritism downline. But what community means to me is that you put other people before you. And again, when we're talking about an island with defined borders, when people aren't taking care of their community and they aren't taking care of their environment and they aren't taking care of their neighbors, it becomes apparent because they're not going anywhere. You can't send them somewhere. And that compels you to do the right thing and, if for no other reason, to make sure that you have safety, security, health. So, for me, being involved in things that make people feel like they are doing better today than yesterday, a year from now than today, a decade from now from today, making sure that they feel like they are valued, those are the things that I believe are exceptionally important to maintaining cohesion in the community. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Benner. Chair, I don't have any more questions. I yield. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, go ahead. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for being here today, sir. MR. BENNER: Thank you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I appreciate your time. Wow. I just have one question because a lot of questions have been asked already. What is the role of government in your eyes? MR. BENNER: I'm sorry, Council Member. The feed froze. Page 23 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: What is the role of government in your eyes? MR. BENNER: The role of government, in my opinion, is to ensure that power has checks but that it's not overly assertive to the point where it's in every aspect of your life. I think the distribution of resources in a transparent, effective, and efficient manner is paramount to maintaining public trust. And I think the government's primary role is to administer those resources. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Good answer. Thank you. I appreciate it. MR. BENNER: Thank you, sir. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You have a very nice resume as well, I have to say. Very nice resume. Thank you. MR. BENNER: Thank you, sir. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Anyone else? Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Benner, thanks for being here. I'll just take the approach to really humanize this process. And like I did for Mr. Cashmon,just a few rapid-fire questions. MR. BENNER: Sure. MS. LEE LOY: Your favorite sandwich. MR. BENNER: My favorite sandwich? I like the BLT (bacon, lettuce, and tomato). MS. LEE LOY: Favorite superhero. MR. BENNER: Well, Superman. He's got all the power. MS. LEE LOY: Favorite time of the year. MR. BENNER: Christmas. Family gatherings. Christmas. I like that whole holiday season: beginning Thanksgiving and ending through Christmas. And I watched your parade in years past. So, I know you guys like them to. MS. LEE LOY: And of course, we've heard all the wonderful assets that you bring to the table, but I have to ask the opposite end of that question. What area would you like to improve upon? Page 24 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MR. BENNER: I'm in a very good place right now in my role with the city because, as an internal auditor, I am primarily accountable to department directors and the administration. And it is not nearly as much of a public-facing role as what this position would propose to be. And so, I would do my very best to make sure that I am a good steward and able to speak to the public in an efficient, effective manner, understanding that I, like 97 percent of auditors, am an introvert and public speaking is not my natural forte. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Benner, for being here. Chair, I yield. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else? Seeing none, Mr. Benner, my colleagues have basically outlined your excellent qualifications, and I really appreciate the questions that they've asked. I think it gives us an idea of you as a person, and I believe here that's important. And so, your sincerity is duly noted, and I appreciate all that you have conveyed in your interview here before this body. So, with that, I believe we can—if there's no other questions, we're going to ask you to sign off. Is that—Mr. Clerk? Okay? So, I just wanted to say thank you very much, mahalo, and aloha to you. We're going to ask that you sign off right now so the Council can proceed with its business. MR. BENNER: Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate Council's questioning today. And if I'm not the candidate that's selected, I just wanted to thank you either way for the opportunity and I would hold nothing against it. You have a great day. CHR. DAVID: You as well. Mahalo. MR. BENNER: Take care. CHR. DAVID: Are we offline, Jeanette? Okay. All right, Council Members. Now, I think, Mr. Clerk,please read in MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, we have a motion to close file on this communication. CHR. DAVID: Oh, okay. We do that now, Mr. Clerk? MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, you can do that now unless you want to discuss further beyond, I guess, the real salient point of the resolution, which is picking somebody. If you're ready to go there, I think you're okay to close file. Before you do that, I just wanted to address one thing that— CHR. hatCHR. DAVID: Please do. MR. HENRICKS: Council Member Chung had brought forward, and we hadn't briefed the Council on it. It's important to note that he had talked about the Page 25 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 potential for one of the applicants maybe viewing, but we did ask both applicants not to watch the livestream and then they weren't in the room at the same time to give fairness for the process. So,just wanted to put that out there. CHR. DAVID: Okay. MR. HENRICKS: And also, they won't—we expect that they are not watching the proceedings going forward either. CHR. DAVID: The proceedings. MR. HENRICKS: Correct. CHR. DAVID: Okay. Thanks for that clarification. So, okay, at this point, I'm going to take a call for a vote on the close file on Communication 16 and related communications. All those in favor,please say "aye." Vote on Comm. 16: The motion to close file on Comm. 16 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Council Members Chung, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair David–8. Noes: None. Absent: Council Member Richards – 1. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: Okay. Now, we can proceed to Resolution 98-21. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, Order of RESOLUTIONS: Resolutions. Res. 98-21: APPOINTS THE COUNTY AUDITOR PURSUANT TO SECTION 3-18 OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CHARTER (2020) Appoints the County Auditor to serve a six-year term, effective June 1, 2021. Reference: Comm. 208 Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz Waived: GOREDC and Comm. 208.1: From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated April 14, 2021, transmitting a proposed amendment to Res. 98-21, which would appoint Mr. Tyler Benner as County Auditor. Page 26 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 ; and Comm. 208.2: From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated April 14, 2021, transmitting a proposed amendment to Res. 98-21, which would appoint Mr. John Cashmon as County Auditor. Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to adopt Res. 98-21. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. DAVID: Go ahead, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Res. 98-21 with the contents of Comm. 208.1. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. DAVID: Discussion, Council Members? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair, for the opportunity. While both candidates I feel confident would be able to fulfill this role as County Auditor, I was certainly very impressed with what Mr. Benner brought to the table today. And I see this as a very important kuleana of this body. We are here for two years, but the person that we appoint will essentially outlive some of us. They will be appointed for a six-year term. And I am confident that he can certainly lead that office very well. So, happy to support his candidacy. CHR. DAVID: Thank you for that, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: After listening to both applicants, I like Mr. Cashmon. Given his experience and his overall style, I do agree Mr. Benner had some just a very different, very analytical approach, which is good. But given the culture on Hawaii Island and Mr. Cashmon's presentation and his style, I feel he may be better to make forward movement with some of the departments. That's just my opinion. Thank you for that. Thank you for the discussion today. This is good. I like this. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: Yes, thank you, Chair. Speaking to the motion in front of us, I just have to express, having sat on the ad hoc committee, we saw tremendous amount of growth of all of our interviewees. And it was my experience that the two candidates that we elevated really began to progress. However, what I observed was Mr. Benner's progression to this place, which just demonstrates his ability to learn, his ability to understand, but also provide a lot of forward progress in the auditor's office, and why I would actually be supporting Mr. Benner. I think there's still a lot more potential and a lot more untapped potential that we have not seen yet, and why I will be supporting Mr. Benner as our auditor. I yield. Page 27 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Inaba, go ahead. MR. INABA: I just have a question regarding the procedure right now. We have one communication in front of us. How is this working? I'm a little confused. CHR. DAVID: Mr. Clerk? MR. HENRICKS: Sure. And as Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder took the opportunity to because there's essentially two choices, I think you have pretty much full freedom to express your preferences at this point and explain why. MR. INABA: Okay. With that, also sitting on the ad hoc committee, I really appreciated Mr. Benner's approach. And I think he has a presence to get things done in a quick and efficient manner, and present that information to us in the same way. So, I'll be supporting Mr. Benner's application or offering him the position. Thank you. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ms. Kimball, go ahead. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Madam Chair. I will say that we have before us what I think are two very different candidates. It's almost difficult to weigh them against each other because they have really different attributes. One of them Mr. Cashmon—has just a ton of experience. A ton of experience as the manager. A ton of experience as an auditor. I think a little bit of it today, he's also very funny and very warm, and we really enjoyed conversing with him. On the flip side you have Tyler who is, as you can tell, very thorough. He's young and ambitious and doesn't have the same level of experience but I think communicates very effectively. He does have stronger ties to Hawaii and more experience. I think he said his wife was even from Kauai if I remember, but I don't know that we can—from Lanai, thank you. So, he has stronger connections with the islands. I like that he has IT experience. I think that is something that we will have more and more integration with in the various departments, obviouslyEnerGov and eventually maybe our new financing system if that ever happens. So, that skillset, I think, would be extremely useful. I'm glad he brought up the cybersecurity issue. That, I think, is also extremely important right now. So, I'm happy to support Mr. Benner. Like I said, I do think these are two very different candidates, and I don't think we can go wrong with either one, ultimately. I think it's just a matter of what we think. And I defer to you folks, who've had more experience with the County, what you think we need right now. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Mr. Chung, go ahead. Page 28 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MR. CHUNG: Thank you. Yeah, I like Mr. Cashmon. He looks like a really delightful fellow and with a wealth of experience. But—and there's always the "but" I really do apologize for that—but it's just my gut feeling is to go with Mr. Benner on this one. As Ms. Kimball said, he communicates very well, and I think that's what we need with the auditor—not saying that Mr. Cashmon can't communicate, but Mr. Benner was very clear in answering whatever questions we had. One question I have now is, though, I never got to ask him about his criminal background. Okay? And thank you to Holeka for sending out that information regarding what we can and cannot ask. And really, I never asked that question of Mr. Cashmon either; he answered while I was asking the question of Corp. Counsel. But it's my understanding that we can ask that after we conditionally approve him for appointment. And I don't know where this is going, but at what point is this considered a conditional appointment or a conditional hire where I can ask that question? And I'm sure he's going to answer that he has no criminal conviction or felony conviction over the last five years orno, over the last seven years and misdemeanor over five, but I sure would like to ask him that question so that we thoroughly vet him in that regard. So, when can I ask that question? Because if we approve this, then that's it. He's appointed. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. I believe Corporation Counsel, Ms. Schoen is coming to the table. (Note: At this time, Deputy Corporation Counsel Renee Schoen came forward to address the members of the Council.) MS. SCHOEN: I believe you guys can do the appointment and it'd be conditioned—well, let me back up. I think you normally, okay, you can ask the question. And actually, the question should have been asked in the beginning before this whole process started because I think some sort of criminal background check is relevant to this position. But since we did not ask that upfront, I think you can ask it after the appointment. MR. CHUNG: So afterI mean, if he is appointed, we could ask him after the appointment. MS. SCHOEN: Right. MR. CHUNG: All right. MS. SCHOEN: And part of the issue is a privacy issue. So, I mean, I think we could probably call and ask now. Page 29 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MR. CHUNG: Yeah. MS. SCHOEN: And my concern was that it's so public and not wanting to MR. CHUNG: Well, he can ask for an Executive Session in that regard. MS. SCHOEN: Correct. MR. CHUNG: Or he could just say no. MS. SCHOEN: Correct. MR. CHUNG: I just want to know the timing of this. When can we ask that question? MS. SCHOEN: I think you can ask it now. MR. CHUNG: What does your thing say? MR. INABA: Prior to makingoh, okay. "After making a conditional job offer, an employer may" MR. CHUNG: Conditional job offer. Right. MS. SCHOEN: And I saw what Holeka sent and my view is that this position, there is a relationship between whether or not you have a criminal history or a police record and it's relevant to the position. MR. CHUNG: Can we call him back on, then? I mean, is that okay? Or is itor should we do it after the vote is taken? CHR. DAVID: Mr. Chung, I think Clerk has a comment. MR. CHUNG: Yes. MR. HENRICKS: Would it be appropriate to have somebody call and ask? Not during this session? And if the answer is no, report back the answer is no. If the answer is yes, then it gives the opportunity in a more private setting perhaps then to explore in Executive Session to find out more details. That might be the most expeditious way to handle this. Because I know that Ms. Schoen's concern was if the answer is yes, there could be qualifying factors that would not hinder a person's opportunity to take this role. But at the same time, would it be fair to that person to express or explain those things in an open Council meeting? CHR. DAVID: Mr. Chung. Page 30 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MS. SCHOEN: And in fairness, if you're going to askI mean, I know Mr. MR. HENRICKS: Cashmon. Right. MS. SCHOEN: Cashmon volunteered the information, but in fairness to both candidates, I would ask the same question to both. MR. CHUNG: You know I'm hard of hearing, right? I cannot really hear what you guys are saying. MR. INABA: Mr. Chung, if I could add to the information? There is an asterisk that says, "except that employers who are expressly permitted to consider an individual's criminal history for employment purposes pursuant to law may do so before a conditional job offer." So, I'm not sure if we're one of those employers but there's that— MR. hatMR. CHUNG: That's where it—well, you just tell us what we can and cannot do. I don't want to belabor this, but all I just want to do is find out whether he has any criminal conviction and be done with it. MS. SCHOEN: And I would say that you can ask it. MR. CHUNG: Can? MS. SCHOEN: Yeah, can. MR. CHUNG: Can you call him up and then find out(inaudible)? MR. HENRICKS: We can get him back on the line. CHR. DAVID: Okay. MS. SCHOEN: But can weI mean, can we do itcan we break from this session, do it in Executive Session? MR. CHUNG: Why don't we just ask him later on? Let's go on. CHR. DAVID: Okay. Yeah. Mr. Chung, do you yield? Okay, let me go to Ms. Villegas first and then Ms. Kimball. MS. VILLEGAS: My thought process is just that he currently works for the City of Tacoma, Washington, correct, as their auditorSpokane, my apologies. He currently works for that city as their auditor, and I can't imagine him having a felony record and working for that city. So, that's just my point of thought, is that if he's currently employed there, that would have been sussed out by their city government as well. Or at least I'm hopeful for that. So, if that helps at all. Page 31 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. Actually, I'd like to say that my preference right now would be to go into Executive Session, call him back, ask the question, and just have this answered. I think it's important that we move on this issue. I'm sure he's available for a quick call, and let's just get it resolved. That would be my preference. I don't have the language to make the motion. Sue always makes the motion for Executive Session. So, if you'd like to do it. That would be my preference. MR. HENRICKS: And I think Mr. Chung might have mentioned—if not, forgive me for assuming his thoughts then if we do that, then the same thing for Mr. Cashmon. Just out of trying to have a consistent process. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. I'm fine with that as well. MR. HENRICKS: And maybe Mr. Chung never thought that in the first place. I don't know why I thought that maybe you had mentioned that. Same-same. CHR. DAVID: Did you hear what he said? MR. CHUNG: I think I can only hear high-pitched sounds, really. And with this muffled thing, it's very difficult. CHR. DAVID: I think Clerk mentioned that if we do that for Mr. Benner, we would need to do the same for Mr. Cashmon. Okay? Mr. Holeka. MR. INABA: I understand the idea of doing it the same, but that question for Mr. Cashmon was answered already. So, is that I mean, he volunteered the information. MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Chung was seeking counsel on whether or not he could ask. And I don't remember what happened after that. CHR. DAVID: And I think whatClerk, correct me if I'm wrongI think what you are saying is if we're going to take an Executive Session for a specific question for one of those candidates, whether Mr. Cashmon answered it without being asked officially, in a matter of fairness we have to ask him the same question. MR. HENRICKS: Nevertheless, this body is essentially making a decision between the two. Then at that point, you can say you're asking because you've made a decision and your decision is conditional upon that. Then, you don't need to ask both. Page 32 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MR. CHUNG: I think we're ready to go already on this thing, and I really don't want my question to belabor the (inaudible). MR. HENRICKS: You could vote on this, and then if MR. CHUNG: Let me just explain. MR. HENRICKS: Sir, sorry. MR. CHUNG: Based on the information that was provided to us by Mr. Inaba, it seems that we can properly ask that question after a conditional approval is made. So, it may have been improper for anyone to ask either of the applicants at the front end. That's why I saidI didn't ask Mr.—I didn't get to the point of asking Mr. Cashmon that question. I was asking that question of Corp. Counsel as to whether it was legal and Mr. Cashmon answered it. So, what I think as an appointing body, we need to get certain things on the record so that we can demonstrate that we have properly vetted this matter. And that's all. But it seems that we can only do it after the conditional approval is made, and we haven't even gotten to that stage yet. So, I'm not going to ask. I'm just going to let it rest. And if anybody wants to ask him afterwards and if he says, "Yes, I was convicted of something,"then we can change our resolution if we want. I'm ready to move, quite frankly. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, go ahead. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: If I remember right, most applications actually say, "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?" It's one of the questions on the application when you go to get hired. But I don't remember when that was removed. I see the list of questioning but—Renee, is that not an applicable question, whether you use it as a condition to hire or not? I've seen it on applications before. MS. SCHOEN: It's an appropriate question for certain positions. So, I would say, "not across the board." For instance,police. Obviously, they're not going to go through the whole process if they have had an arrest or a conviction. So, what Holeka provided you all is basically a framework of what can and cannot be asked. So, with some situations, it can be asked. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, I've seen it, like, generic applications (inaudible): "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?" Period. That's why this discussion is interesting. And I know Mr. Chung said let's go ahead and vote already, but I don't know why we couldn't ask that question. Have you seen that we shouldn't—are you—is it Corp. Counsel's opinion that we should not ask that question? Page 33 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MS. SCHOEN: I believe you can ask the question for this particular position. It's an appointed position. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Without going into Executive Session. MS. SCHOEN: I believe you have to go into Executive Session because whether or not the applicant is okay with that answer being public because we're doing this in a public setting. So, usually when you hire people, it's confidential. All the matters discussed are confidential, but this is a different setting. And so, that's my hesitancy with you asking in public. I mean, they might not care. I don't know. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. MR. CHUNG: May I give my opinion on that— CHR. hatCHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. CHUNG: For what it's worth? CHR. DAVID: Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: See, at whatever point I don't know when we can ask it but at the point that we decide to ask him that question, then he can ask to go into an Executive Session because it involves a personnel matter. But it has to be at his request. And so, if that's done, then we go into Executive Session and he can answer. But if he wants to do it in public, he can do it. MS. SCHOEN: I agree with that. MR. CHUNG: Yeah. Thanks. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. MR. CHUNG: He has to be apprised of that right to go into Executive Session. MS. SCHOEN: Correct. CHR. DAVID: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Mr. I'm sorry? MR. HENRICKS: Shall we get him back on the line? CHR. DAVID: Can I just go to Mr. Inaba first before we do that? Page 34 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MR. INABA: Chair, I just called Mr. Benner and asked him if he'd be willing to answer the question, and he said yes. So, if we do want to get him back on the line, we can give him both options. But he's willing to answer the question. CHR. DAVID: Did we already call him? MR. INABA: I called him. I don't know what the answer is to the question of whether he has a criminal background, but he's willing to answer before this body. CHR. DAVID: Okay, Mr. Clerk. MR. HENRICKS: We're getting him. CHR. DAVID: Where's Mr. Chung? Wait, hang on. Let's take a short recess while we wait for Mr. Chung. I believe he's theoh, he's ready. Okay. COUNCIL MEMBERS: (Inaudible.) CHR. DAVID: But that was a question from Mr. Chung, so anyone—who is going to ask that question? Okay,put him on. (Note: At this time, Tyler Benner, applicant, came forward to address the members of the Council, via videoconferencing.) CHR. DAVID: Mr. Benner? MR. BENNER: Hi, Council. CHR. DAVID: Hi. Sorry to call you back, but we were having a discussion about a question that was wanted to be asked. And it had to do with whether you would agree to answer it or would you like to go into Executive Session to respond to a question regarding criminal history background. MR. BENNER: No, I'd answer that in the public sphere. My wife works in public safety and couldn't be married to somebody with a criminal background. CHR. DAVID: Thank you very much. Mr. Chung, we've got him back on the line. Go ahead and ask your question. He's willing to do it in open session. MR. CHUNG: Oh, I thought you guys asked him already? CHR. DAVID: No, well, we sort of did but he said MR. CHUNG: Right. Page 35 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 CHR. DAVID: So, you have no criminal or felony history, Mr. Benner? MR. CHUNG: Over the last—felony convictions over the last seven years or misdemeanor convictions over the last five years. MR. BENNER: None whatsoever. MR. CHUNG: All right. Thank you. MR. BENNER: You're welcome. CHR. DAVID: Thank you very much. Enjoy the—we won't call you back anymore. Thank you very much. Bye-bye. MR. BENNER: Thank you. Bye. CHR. DAVID: Okay. All right. Okay, we are now at a point where we're going to vote on the motion to amend Resolution 98-21 with the contents of Communication 208.1, which is the recommendation of appointing Mr. Tyler Benner as County Auditor. All those in favor, please say "aye." Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Res. 98-21 with the contents of Amend: Comm. 208.1 was carried by the following voice vote: (Approved) Ayes: Council Members Chung, Inaba, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair David–7. Noes: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder– 1. Absent: Council Member Richards – 1. Excused: None. MR. CHUNG: You want to get him back on the line again? CHR. DAVID: (Inaudible). I believe we've—okay. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair? CHR. DAVID: Yes, go ahead, Ms. Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So sorry. Given that Mr. Benner noted that he could start no earlier than June 15'', this resolution notes the start date of June I". Looking for guidance from our Clerk as to whether or not a motion on the floor in this manner is appropriate or if something written needs to be transmitted in order to change the date of employment starting. Page 36 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MR. HENRICKS: Before we do that,just housekeeping. The resolution was amended. The Rules call for a holdover at this point, unless the Rules are suspended. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Motion to suspend the rules CHR. DAVID: You want to yeah, I know. It's hard to hear. MR. HENRICKS: I'm sorry, you know what? The Rules call for the matter to be held over because it was amended. So, unless there's a suspension of the Rules, there'll be a holdover till the next meeting. Vote on Motion to Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to suspend Council Rule 24 to Suspend Council waive the holdover for the substantive amendment of Rules: Res. 98-21. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the (Approved) following voice vote: Ayes: Council Members Chung, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair David—8. Noes: None. Absent: Council Member Richards — 1. Excused: None. MR. HENRICKS: Okay, so going back to the question, your resolution is amended but there is a start date in there that did not coincide with the preferred candidate's timeframe. He said June 15 at the earliest. If you're looking for a recommendation, I would say July 1 just to give that extra time. It's the start of a month. It'll give everybody more time to prepare. And you could make a motion now to amend the `BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED" clause to insert"July 1, 2021," in place of"June 1, 2021." CHR. DAVID: Can I have the motion? Vote on Motion to Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Res. 98-21 by amending Amend: the `BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED" clause on page 2 to (Approved) change the effective date from June 1 to July 1. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Council Members Chung, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair David—8. Noes: None. Absent: Council Member Richards — 1. Excused: None. Page 37 Hawaii County Council-11 April 21,2021 MR. HENRICKS: So now, we've amended twice. It would seem redundant to suspend the Rules again, so I would say, at this point, you're free to move forward with further discussion or voting on the resolution, as amended twice. The two amendments are to insert Mr. Tyler Benner as appointed the County Auditor, and changing the effective date from June 1 to July 1 of this year. CHR. DAVID: Thank you. Any discussion on those two amendments? Seeing none, all those in favor of approving Resolution 98-21, as amended both by Communication 208.1 and the floor amendment to change the date, all in favor please say "aye." Vote on Res. 98-21: The motion to adopt Res. 98-21, as amended to Draft 2, Draft 2 was carried by the following voice vote: (Adopted) Ayes: Council Members Chung, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair David—8. Noes: None. Absent: Council Member Richards — 1. Excused: None. MR. HENRICKS: Okay. So, somebody may be contacting Mr. Benner again today even though we said we wouldn't call. We'll notify both candidates CHR. DAVID: Thank you very much for doing that. Yes. MR. HENRICKS: And take other necessary actions. CHR. DAVID: All right. OTHER The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, Other BUSINESS: Business. (There were none.) ANNOUNCE- The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, MENTS: Announcements. (There were none.) CHR. DAVID: So, may I have a motion to adjourn, someone? Page 38 Hawai`i County Council-11 April 21,2021 • ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 12:45 p.m., Mr. Inaba moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Council Members Chung, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair David— 8. Noes: None. Absent: Council Member Richards— 1. Excused: None. CHR. DAVID: We are adjourned. Mahalo, everybody. MR. HENRICKS: Thank you. Council Approval: MAY 1 9 2021 AIL C TY =a IN I El I MS JH/dg Page 39