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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOREDC 2021/06/15 2020-2022 Committee on Governmental Operations, Relations, and Economic Development 11th Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawai i June 15, 2021 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations, Relations, ORDER: and Economic Development was called to order at 2:42 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Chair Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Vice Chair Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member (came in later) Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member Absent& Excused: Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) CHR. KIMBALL: Okay, no testifiers. Okay, with that, I will close public testimony. Mr. Clerk, can we go ahead with the first order of business? Thank you. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 29.2: HAWAII STATE ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES' MARCH 23, 2021, EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES From Council Member Heather Kimball, dated May 14, 2021. GOREDC-11 June 15,2021 Vote on Comm. 29.2: Mr. Inaba moved to close file on Comm. 29.2. Filed Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members David, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Richards, and Chair Kimball—7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung and Villegas —2. Excused: None. CHR. KIMBALL: Alright, Mr. Clerk, moving on to the next item. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Order RESOLUTIONS: of Resolutions. Res. 136-21: SUPPORTS INVESTMENT IN HAWAII COUNTY FROM THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN, AMERICAN JOBS PLAN, AND AMERICAN FAMILIES PLAN AND TO FORM A PERMITTED INTERACTION GROUP TO ADVOCATE ON BEHALF OF THE COUNCIL Adopts an official position of support for investments of these Federal funds into the community and allows for the formation of a Permitted Interaction Group pursuant to Section 92-2.5(b)(2), Hawaii Revised Statutes,to allow between two and four Council Members to advocate for specific types of funding investments on behalf of the County Council. Reference: Comm. 270 Intr. by: Ms. Kimball Postponed: June 1, 2021 (Note: There is a motion by Ms. Kimball, seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, to recommend adoption of Res. 136-21.) CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Before we have any discussion on this, there were a couple of items that we asked Judge Strance to follow-up on. One of them was Council Member Lee Loy's question as to whether or not formation of this Permitted Interaction Group would preclude any of the Council Members from advocating on their own outside of the Permitted Interaction Group. Page 2 GOREDC-11 June 15,2021 The answer to that is, as I understand it from Judge Strance is "no." However, one of the challenges that is presented by the formation of a Permitted Interaction Group is that the subject matter that has been designated as the authority of the Permitted Interaction Group now can no longer be discussed in front of the full board. And so you can see the obvious challenge there. If there were monies that came into the County through these various packages from the Feds, we would not as a body—we would be at risk of violating Sunshine Law if we were to proceed. So my intention is to withdraw the motion. I want to give Judge Strance the opportunity to clarify if I didn't express that clearly, and give my colleagues an opportunity to ask questions if there's clarity needed, particularly in light of what you're planning to do with your working group. So any of you folks have questions for Judge Strance? Or Judge Strance is there anything you'd like to elaborate on that I did not express in the right terms? (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. STRANCE: Thank you. Good afternoon, Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. So Council Member Kimball is correct. A question that was asked was if this committee was created, could we advocate individually to legislators and other groups. And the answer to that is, yes, because it's not a communication between members. The problem then became when this was first being considered, it was considered as kind of a prospective group. So advocating to get money to the County. But once that money is allocated to the County, the group cannot meet and then the board have agenda items on expenditures of those funds, because then you would be meeting as a group and then discussion then would take place in the action group. And so that is where there would be a potential Sunshine Law violation. And this specific issue or close to it, was actually—we've got advice on it from the Office of Information Practices I think a couple of years ago when another action group was being contemplate—in the construct of it was run by the Office of Information Practices. So when I ran across that opinion and given the proximity of the funds to the County, the group would actually hamper your abilities than enhance it. So it doesn't seem appropriate at this point because the funds are on their way, or here. So, it's for that reason that we're no longer recommending that the group be formed. But then also, to specifically respond to the question about extra group contact in lobbying and those sorts of things. Page 3 GOREDC-11 June 15,2021 You know, you folks would have to decide whether that's a good idea or not. But it certainly wouldn't prevent you. But I think having a careful crafting of these groups and knowing what they're for is important. And you know, I think there's been expressions periodically about, kind of the clunkiness of the Sunshine Law. And the Office of Information Practices frowns on what appears to be attempts to get around Sunshine Law. So you know, if the construct of it is designed for that purpose and it's apparent in that purpose, then that in and of itself highlights the group as a potential problem or at least raises a red flag. So you know, as long as this group had been prospective, it had some merit and some good ideas. But as the processes evolved, it doesn't seem appropriate anymore. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Judge Strance. I appreciate that. Any questions or discussion? MR. INABA: Real quick. Judge Strance,just to be very clear on this, it's only if for example, this potential group. It's only if the funds were going to come, that it kind of becomes a problem? MS. STRANCE: So the problem is, if the purpose of the group was to advocate for monies coming to the County, the life of the committee would have extended beyond the County's receipt, because of the way the language was crafted, it probably would have prevented the full Council from having Council consideration about other resolutions on directing the funds. Because that County business would fall within the purpose and scope of the ad hoc committee. And the law prevents you from doing both, because it's a way around the ad hoc committee. Because the County then would have—you folks would all have a discussion, and then it could be taken into this ad hoc committee that it falls outside of the Sunshine Law and that's what is not permitted. MR. INABA: Okay. It's just more so the wording of this specific resolution. Because we have a lot of ad hoc committees, but it's the way this one MS. STRANCE: It's the wording and the purpose. I mean, the initial purpose was to try to be nimble and quick. And the Federal Government was considering having how to disburse money, and the desire to be able to get in and advocate for it. Unfortunately, by the time we got to it, you know, the monies had already been allocated. And so that particular purpose of it was gone. And the time within which you had to consider, you know, when we get this money, how are we going to spend it or whether we want to advocate for it, it was already here and you would have lost time, because the ad hoc committee is required to come and make a report. And then no questions asked of the report. And then they're required to come back to a third meeting, at which time the Council can take action. And so, the way that the ad hoc committee would have worked in this situation would have taken longer than not creating it at all. Page 4 GOREDC-11 June 15,2021 MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. How complicated. Thank you, Council Member Kimball. CHR. KIMBALL: It's very complicated and after the rest of you had a chance, there's a component that I'll add to that as well. MR. INABA: Yeah, thank you for, again though, the intention of it. CHR. KIMBALL: I'm not sure who was first over there. Council Member Richards, go ahead. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. This has been a recurrent theme since I've been sitting on Council. So how do we get anything done? MS. STRANCE: Is that rhetorical? MR. RICHARDS: I know you wish it was a rhetorical question. MS. STRANCE: You know, I've got to say, I hear a lot of comments. The Sunshine Law is so funky, we don't like it. And then within in the same context, you talk about great conversations you folks are having. So the process, I think is actually working better than you think. Around, like legislation with Office of Information Practices, seems to suggest is that perhaps at the beginning of a Council term, you set legislative priorities, and you put together a group and authorize and empower a group. And that would be one way for you'd have an action group that could act more nimbly. So it would require more forethought earlier in the legislative year. So that's on legislation. You know, there are other types of ad hoc groups that are designed to investigate so that the Council can be informed. And so, there might be projects that work of the Council would slow down because of the length of time it would take to collect information. So they're helpful in gathering and collecting information, and then bringing it back to the Council to work on. There are other types of Council meetings that you folks can have. You can have Special Council meetings. So if there are events, for example, that you all are invited to and want to attend and are open to the public, if you notice the special meeting, then that's a way the Council can interact with other groups. But the public is noticed that you're going to do it. They know where you're going to be and what time you're going to be there. So I think it's the short answer to your question is anticipating and deciding when and how you want to use them. You folks, in my view have been very successful in collecting information through your requests for presentations. It Page 5 GOREDC-11 June 15,2021 seems to lead to generating ideas for legislation and direction. That way, if the hope is to be able to run a county as nimbly as a board of directors for a private company, then it's unlikely that you'll be very happy with the process. You know, I think the idea of this working group on budgeting is interesting because it uses the Charter, which you have. And sometimes the answer is in the Charter. And we forget that there is wisdom that went into crafting the way the government was set up. But then over time, you know, practices are developed without looking at what other alternatives and what other powers you have available to you under the existing laws that you have. So sometimes it's a matter of taking another look at what you have and better utilizing what you have. So, there might be some things that you're frustrated with that there's already a remedy for in the County Charter or in the County Code. It's just that it's not something that has been looked at for a while. So you know, one of the things that I watch with a lot of interest here is kind of reaching into the Charter. Looking at what information you're not getting that's actually required by the Charter. And then asking yourselves, well, how do we get that information because it's going to be helpful to us down the road to do our job. So you know, I think maybe some of those kinds of things. And you know, you are getting work done. It might not be getting done as quickly as you would like but I think maybe try to tease apart the places where you're most frustrated. And then, you know, looking at the Charter and looking at Code or looking at the Hawaii Revised Statutes, and trying to figure out whether the way we're doing things is just the way we're doing things, and there's a different way to do it that would be more efficient and satisfactory to you. So long and unhelpful answer to your short question. But I do think that sometimes that's the answer. MR. RICHARDS: The problem, and I don't disagree with you, Judge, because we have to figure out how to work within the confines of the laws that govern us, and I get that. What Council Woman Kimball was trying to do was come up with a metric that would allow us to interact, thereby in recently short time be able to respond to something that is evolving quite quickly. And we are in competition with other counties, some 3,000-plus that many, in fact most are not governed by the same confines that we are. And so we're at the competitive disadvantage already. And so, you know, I applaud Heather for trying to figure out how to get this done. And I get what you're saying about the transparency and we do have great conversations. And we have the ability to have those conversations provided we have about two weeks' notice; be agendized and put it forth and get it cleared for the Council and all that. That's the problem. Page 6 GOREDC-11 June 15,2021 I agree that the conversations are great. But sometimes we need the collective wisdom to respond quickly. And that's where I think we are hamstringing our Council and thereby hamstringing our County as a whole. So trying to figure out a metric that will help us move forward so we can respond to the needs of the County in a timely fashion. And so, Heather—you know I appreciate, I hear your response, Judge. I applaud your swing at it because I think we miss the boat sometimes because we didn't get in line soon enough because we weren't allowed to. And that's where my frustration comes out, because I see this on the national level, where they meet very quickly and then move forward and we're still left at the gate. So that's trying to figure out how to work within our confines that we can figure that out so we can even have a couple of minds together so there's a collective wisdom, and say, okay, we can operate on this, investigate, get that information; come back, bring it to Council and then act going forward. So that's where my concerns for our County are going forward. How do we respond in a timely fashion? And you know, for instance, a conversation today on Environmental Management. Great, because we're talking about a long-term policy. And I think that is wonderful how we ended it. But that is that situation not a situation that you know, almost daily it's evolving. And then when the treasury changes the rules last minute and we can't respond quick enough. That's where my concerns come. So with that I'm going to yield. Again, Heather, thanks so much for trying to figure out how to get this done, because we have to figure out a way to do it better for the County, and that's what I'm concerned about. So thanks, Judge, I appreciate it. MS. STRANCE: I think, Council Member Kimball has mentioned there have been efforts afoot to amend the Sunshine Law. And you know, the example that you gave would be a perfect case that you'd be able to present around that. And you know, that would be an alternative. I can certainly try to work with the Office of Information Practices about, well what can we craft? Sometimes in reviewing the opinions, they're confusing in—it's almost like threading a needle to be sure that you don't jump over a purpose and then fall into Sunshine Law. But at the same time, you know, the County government has set up a lot of different layers of community involvement. And you know, in doing that it's a more inclusive process, and it's a slower process. And you don't want to create some committee where then you infringe upon the authority that you've granted a community group. And so,that's where I see some of your challenges. Page 7 GOREDC-11 June 15,2021 At the last committee meeting, I started trying to draw a Venn diagram of all the places that touch in the Planning Department for example. And it's a lot, you know. And there might come a time where you want to look at, you know, how and when different committees were created and do they still serve the purpose that they were created for, or is there some other committee now that better serves that purpose? You know, sort of for example with the Community Development Action Committees, they've been delegated a tremendous amount of guidance authority, and how they interact with some of the other more topic specific committees might warrant a second look, or combining them or folding them into Community Development Action Committees. You know, so I think part of taking a look at government every once in a while is to look at how we have it structured. When did we add layers? And do those layers still serve their purpose in light of other things that have happened. You know, same thing possibly with some of these items that you want to be able to act more nimbly. You know, is there is way that we can craft something that will provide you some nimbleness without excluding the community in their right to have input or authorizing your colleagues to act on your behalf. You know, what we found at the last committee meeting on Council Member Kimball's resolution was a real concern and unwillingness to delegate, because people don't want to give up their authority to advocate on behalf of their own constituency. So it creates other tensions. And so I believe Council Member Chung recommended creating a resolution of statement of purpose and intention and then leaving it to each one of you to go out and advocate individually. But I think those are all collective decisions that you can make and probably the best time to have that conversation is at the very beginning of your term, so that if you have a legislative agenda, for example, you can create that group early, and then they're reporting back periodically and you know, run into the problem that we did with the group that Council Member Kimball suggested. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. I mean, it's still frustrating because I think it'll be very difficult to do that unless we would have the exact same Council once again, because you're fresh out of the blocks, and you're not going to have the relationships that you have. So it's going to be difficult to create that understanding. So, it's kind of the chicken before the egg syndrome there. And I hear you and I understand what you're saying. But this, I think, is one of the things that's not helpful for our County going forward, because we're not able to respond. And we can't make good decisions without the information. And because of our process, we are prohibited from obtaining that information in an efficient manner. So anyway, enough on that. Thank you, Heather, I appreciate it. Thank you, Judge, appreciate it. I yield. Page 8 GOREDC-11 June 15,2021 CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ma'am. I just wanted to say, thank you to Judge Strance for breaking down the groups and how this works, and keeping us out of trouble. And then as well to Ms. Kimball for bringing this forward. I think you're doing a good job. It's hard to understand all the little rules and nuances and everything. But you're doing good, first term. So keep it up. That's it. Thank you, mahalo. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Matt. I'll just conclude with a couple of comments. Council Member Richards, you know, you missed our first discussion on this. And I was disappointed, because I knew you would get what I was going after right away. And though the intent of this particular resolution, which was to be able to effectively and nimbly advocate on behalf of our County, you know, that was the primary intent for sure. But the secondary intent was really to explore and understand the boundaries that we have with the existing Sunshine Law, with an eye on what we can do in the coming Legislative Session with the State. I mean that's always a challenge too that moves very rapidly. And so, you know, in developing this particular resolution with Judge Strance, she shared with me an OIP (Office of Information Practices) opinion about how to use the wording of the HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statues)to allow for a group that could lobby and advocate under these general principles. And while that was the way to make it happen, I think the conclusion that you and I and Judge Strance came to is that,that doesn't apply well to another body that serves a legislative function. It may serve there's an approach for a body that doesn't have that similar responsibility, but because we do, there's that conflict that came about. And so, you know, it's one of these very nuanced situations. I appreciate everybody's feedback, and you know, from my standpoint, I'll be continuing to explore. Again, my intention is not to subvert transparency or screw with the Sunshine Law or do anything deceitful, but it's really to give us the best methods for doing what we need to do to be most effective for our County. Again, in relation to the conversation in the previous meeting, support just generally having smaller groups of really passionate people work together on subject matter and report back. So, without any further discussion, I will go ahead and withdraw Resolution 136-21, thank you. Withdraw Res. 136-21: At this time, Ms. Kimball announced the withdrawal of Res. 136-21. Page 9 GOREDC-11 June 15,2021 CHR. KIMBALL: Mr. Clerk, we can move on. Res. 141-21: APPROVES THE NOMINATION OF MEMBERS TO THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES (NACo) BOARD OF DIRECTORS AND THE WESTERN INTERSTATE REGION(WIR) BOARD OF DIRECTORS Requests the Council's approval of the following slates of officers: NACo — Tommy Waters, City and County of Honolulu and KipuKai Kuali`i, Kaua`i County; and WIR—Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Hawai`i County and Kelly T. King, Maui County; for terms beginning on July 1, 2021. Reference: Comm. 278 Intr. by: Ms. Kimball Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend adoption of Res. 141-21. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. CHR. KIMBALL: Any discussion? Go ahead, Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Real quick. Since I'm voting on something for me, I think this would be a good time for me to recuse myself on this vote? CHR. KIMBALL: I don't think that's necessary. MR. RICHARDS: Alright, Chair. No, they do not give me any money. CHR. KIMBALL: I think it's actually giving money. But I don't really see that you're receiving any economic benefit that would present a conflict. MR. RICHARDS: Alright, then I will vote. CHR. KIMBALL: I think we need you for quorum anyway. Okay without any further adieu, all those in favor? Vote on Res. 141-21: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 141-21 was (Approved) carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members David, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Richards, and Chair Kimball—6. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung, Lee Loy, and Villegas —3. Excused: None. Page 10 GOREDC-11 June 15,2021 BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. (There were none.) CHR. KIMBALL: Alright, I'll will take a motion on adjourn. ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 3:14 p.m., Mr. Inaba moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Mr. Kanealii-Kleinfelder and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members David, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Richards, and Chair Kimball—6. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung, Lee Loy, and Villegas—3. Excused: None. CHR. KIMBALL: Alright, thank you. With that, the meeting is over. Have a great rest of your day, everyone. A hui hou. Approved: i (0,/ 2 l Heather L. i Iall, Chair (Date) Government Operations, Relations, and Economic Development Committee HK/dt Page 11