HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PC 2021/07/20 2020-2022 Committee on Planning
11th Session
West Hawaii Civic Center
74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A
Kailua-Kona, Hawai i
July 20, 2021
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Planning was called to order at
ORDER: 1:00 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kona, by Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz,
Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Vice Chair (came in later)
Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member
Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member (via videoconference from Hilo)
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.)
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: We are closing public testimony time and moving on to
the business of the day. Mr. Clerk, if you would be so kind as to read in our
communications.
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
Comm. 318: NOMINATION OF ROBERTA KU`ULEI KEAKEALANI TO THE HAWAII
COUNTY CULTURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated June 30, 2021, requesting the Council's
review and confirmation.
PC-11 July 20,2021
Vote on Comm. 318: Mr. Richards moved to recommend confirmation of the
(Approved) appointment of Roberta Ku`ulei Keakealani to the Hawaii
County Cultural Resources Commission. Seconded by
Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
Executive Assistant to the Mayor Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward and
provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience.
Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Clerk, next communication please.
Comm. 319: NOMINATION OF MATTHEW CLARK TO THE HAWAII COUNTY
CULTURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated June 30, 2021, requesting the Council's
review and confirmation.
Vote on Comm. 319: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend confirmation of the
(Approved) appointment of Mr. Matthew Clark to the Hawaii
County Cultural Resources Commission. Seconded by
Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
Executive Assistant to the Mayor Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward and
provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience.
Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Clerk, our final communication.
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Comm. 320: NOMINATION OF AARON SPIELMAN TO THE HAWAII COUNTY
CULTURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated June 30, 2021, requesting the Council's
review and confirmation.
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kimball moved to forward the nomination of
Mr. Aaron Spielman to the Hawaii County Cultural
Resources Commission to Council with a positive
recommendation. Seconded by Mr. Richards.
(Note: At this time, Executive Assistant to the Mayor Pomaika`i Bartolome
came forward to introduce and provide a brief narrative of the nominee's
background and experience.)
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Bartolome. Is Mr. Spielman joining
us on Zoom?
MS. BARTOLOME: Yeah, no, Mr. Spielman is not able to attend today
because he had to report to jury duty. So we are requesting to forward him to
Council confirmation.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: We will take your request under consideration, thank
you. Any questions, deliberations, comments from my colleagues?
Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thanks, Chair. I think the fact that the candidate is not here
because of civic duty, in part starts the support. I do know him and I can see
where this would be kind of a bridge of what we're looking for as far as going
forward. Now that being said, we as a Council have agreed that we don't move
anybody into a commission or committee without having them come before us.
However, moving forward with the process, I think is a reasonable request and
because I know him, I am very comfortable with supporting the request from the
Administration to move him forward to Council with the stipulation, obviously,
that he would show up for Council. Kind of hard to get out of jury duty to show
up for this. So I think that is a reasonable request to go forward. So I would
support that going forward. I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. And I'll concur with my colleague,
Mr. Richards. I do not know Aaron. He is in my district but only barely. The
northern border is very strange between my district and Tim's. But we did have
a chance to connect yesterday. It was initially going to be just a quick
conversation and then we ended up talking for over an hour about various things.
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I'm very impressed with his level of expertise, experience, and commitment to
public service work. He also mentioned that he had done a significant amount of
work in historic preservation on the East Coast,particularly with the VELS
(Virtual Environment for Learning Surveying) environment there, but was born
and raised here; has done cultural preservation work here. And at best, he has
paddled around this island. And that was like, okay, deal sealed. So I would
concur with my colleague. Let's move him forward to the next Council Meeting
and hopefully he'll be able to join us then. Thanks Chair.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Chair David.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair. I just have a question for Ms. Bartolome. He
will be available for our next meeting?
MS. BARTOLOME: Yes.
MS. DAVID: Okay, alright, that'll be fine. And I have a question for
Mr. Clerk. Mr. Clerk, is the 45-day action ?
MR. HENRICKS: This is one of the rare commissions or boards of the County
that does not include any timeframe for appointment.
MS. DAVID: Perfect, thank you. Then, thank you very much. We'll look
forward to seeing Mr. Spielman and I concur with Mr. Richards and Ms.
Kimball. Thank you, I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Ms. Kimball, did you have anything further to say? No?
Any other questions or comments? Okay, I was really looking forward to
speaking with this gentleman. His resume really screamed place-making, and
I'm really into creative place-making. So, I had some questions and wanted to
know more about his work with Parker Ranch and Kona Historical Society.
Seemed really interesting.
I do think Ms. Kimball and Mr. Richards are excellent judges of character. So
I'm willing to take a vote on this today with the understanding, Ms. Bartolome,
that we will get a chance to speak with Mr. Spielman at the next Council
Meeting. Thank you for making that happen.
MS. BARTOLOME: Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, there is a motion on the floor. All in favor please
say "aye."
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Vote on Comm. 320: The motion to confirm the appointment of
(Approved) Mr. Aaron Spielman to the Hawaii County Cultural
Resources Commission was carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Motion carries. The nomination of Mr. Spielman to the
Cultural Resources Commission is forwarded to the Council with a positive
recommendation. Thank you. Moving on to business of the day. Mr. Clerk,
could you please read in Bills for Ordinance.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Order
RESOLUTIONS: of Resolutions.
(There were none.)
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
Bill 52: AMENDS THE STATE LAND USE BOUNDARIES MAPS FOR THE
COUNTY OF HAWAII BY CHANGING THE DISTRICT CLASSIFICATION
FROM THE AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT TO THE URBAN DISTRICT AT
KALAOA 5TH, NORTH KONA, HAWAII, COVERED BY
TAX MAP KEY: 7-3-005:015
and
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Bill 53: AMENDS SECTION 25-8-3 (NORTH KONA DISTRICT ZONE MAP),
ARTICLE 8, CHAPTER 25 (ZONING) OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE
1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY CHANGING THE DISTRICT
CLASSIFICATION FROM AGRICULTURAL—ONE ACRE (A-la) AND
AGRICULTURAL—FIVE ACRES (A-5A) TO SINGLE FAMILY
RESIDENTIAL—22,000 SQUARE FEET (RS-22) AT KALAOA 5TH,
NORTH KONA, HAWAII, COVERED BY TAX MAP KEY: 7-3-005:015
(Applicants: Timothy Joseph Ward and Kay Lynn Ward)
(Area: approx. 3.992 Acres)
The Leeward Planning Commission forwards its favorable recommendation for
this amendment to the State Land Use Boundaries Maps and change of zone, which
would allow the Applicant to apply for subdivision of the property into six buildable
lots with a minimum of 22,000 square feet for each lot. The property is located at
73-4350 Hawaii Belt Road, south of its intersection with Kaiminani Drive.
Reference: Comm. 314
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz (B/R)
and
Comm. 314.1: From Deputy Planning Director Jeffrey W. Darrow, dated June 22, 2021,
transmitting the draft transcript from the Leeward Planning Commission's
May 20, 2021, meeting.
Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the
of Business: following item was taken out of order:
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: I'm going to take up Bill 53 first because there's a lot
more substance and meat here that we should be discussing. So I will enter a
motion to forward Bill 53 to the Council with a positive recommendation.
Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend passage of Bill 53 on
first reading. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: I believe that we have the representative for the applicant
here with us today, Mr. John Pipan. Is your client joining us on Zoom?
(Note: At this time, representative for the applicant John Pipan came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. PIPAN: Yes, thank you, I believe they are.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, great. And I believe we have in Hilo
Chambers, Deputy Director Jeff Darrow.
MR. BROWN: We do, Madam Chair. Our friends from Planning are here.
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Is that also Maija Jackson?
MR. BROWN: It is.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, great. Thank you. Mr. Pipan go ahead and
introduce yourself for the record and provide us with an overview of the
request before us today. Thank you.
MR. PIPAN: Aloha kakou. My name is John Pipan, Land Planning Hawaii.
I live just outside of Honoka`a. The applications before us today include the
State Land Use Boundary amendment up first, I guess we're talking about the
rezone amendment, the change of zone.
I hesitate to say that any application is perfectly straight forward because as
always, there's wrinkles and the devils in the details. So from a land use and
planning perspective, these applications make a lot of sense to me. These
are—so this property is a perfect candidate for infill being consistent with the
County General Plan low density urban designation and the Kona Community
Development Plan urban area. They're served by adequate utilities and
transportation.
I think we've struck a good balance with the surrounding community in terms
of providing mitigations for concerns they've expressed with safety regarding
the new private access road that would serve the six parcels. We're
committing to preserving the agricultural sites on the property. And
unfortunately, this property had an unfortunate history of previous landowner
illegally grubbing the property without the proper permissions; destroyed
some archeological sites. But those that remain will be preserved in
perpetuity.
So with that, I'll confirm that the Wards have reviewed the conditions for the
change of zone and state land use boundary amendment. And for the bulk of
it, they agree. I would respectfully request your consideration in altering
Condition "J" of the rezone which pertains to an additional dwelling on any of
the lots. The existing condition would prohibit that, but seeing how there are
seven water commitments available for this property, we would request this be
amended. And I have language that we would suggest. This is language
consistent with what Deputy Director Darrow stated at the Leeward Planning
Commission meeting on this topic. So with that, I'm ready to answer
questions you might have. Thank you much.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Pipan. If the Wards are on Zoom, I
would love to provide them an opportunity to address the Council.
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(Note: At this time, Applicants Timothy Joseph Ward and Kay Lynn
Ward came forward to address the members of the Committee, via
videoconferencing.)
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Aloha, if you could please introduce yourselves for
the record?
MRS. WARD: Sure. Kay Ward.
MR. WARD: Tim Ward.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Aloha. Wanted to provide you an opportunity to
address the Council and share with us your intentions around this request
before us.
MRS. WARD: Sure. So, our intent was to purchase the land and then build
homes on it that will be homes for rent, was our initial and current plan.
When we were there it was apparent to us that there was not a lot of affordable
housing or places for rent, if you needed to rent a home for a year.
We're from Nebraska. We currently live in Omaha. We'll be moving to
Hawaii first part of next year. But here we own some townhomes, and so we
have those as our rental properties. And when we were in Hawaii, we
realized there really isn't a lot of affordable rental property. So it was our
desire to purchase this land; subdivide it, and then be able to build some nice
family homes on the property and then rent them out like an annual kind of
lease situation.
And as he said, there's two historical sites on there that we had agreed to
when we purchased the land, and still do, agree that they should be maintained
in the correct manner that was in the document. I think it's a 10-foot and a
20-foot boundary around those artifacts.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for sharing that with us and being present
today. I wanted to call Planning forward to provide them an opportunity to
address the Council as well. And I also wanted to acknowledge the work that
was put in by the Leeward Planning Commission, Applicant, and Planning
Department to massage a number of these conditions in the ordinance before
us today. Jeff and Maija you have the floor.
(Note: At this time, Deputy Planning Director Jeff Darrow and Planner VI
Maija Jackson came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
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MR. DARROW: Aloha Chair Kierkiewicz and members of the Planning
Committee, this is Jeff Darrow with the Planning Department, as well as
Maija Jackson. We're here to answer any questions you might have regarding
the application.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Perfect. Thank you. Alright, any questions or
comments from this body? Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Jeff, the applicant is requesting an
amendment to Condition "J". And when I read through the condition, it's
something that the Council would need to initiate. Can you provide the
background and the thought process behind that?
MR. DARROW: Normally in a change of zone where we're, you know,
changing the density from a low density to a higher density, we will add in a
condition. It's our typical standard condition, which in this ordinance, Bill 53,
it's Condition "J". It's what we call our restrictive covenants condition. And
basically it says that the applicant shall provide restrictions in their deeds
limiting prohibiting the construction of a second dwelling or CPR
(Condominium Property Regime) on each lot.
In this particular case, Mr. Pipan makes a good point that they have an
additional unit of water available. At the Planning Commission, the Planning
Department did not have an issue with that request, although the Planning
Commission did and did not move to approve that requested amendment. The
Planning Department at this time still is supportive of the request if the
Council is considering an amendment.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Mr. Darrow. And I'm a little rusty on this, it's been a
little bit. And I know the deed restrictions specifically as it relates to the CPR's
was on Ag. But we're going from Ag to RS (Single-Family Residential).
MR. DARROW: Correct.
MS. LEE LOY: So, help walk me through. Again, I'm a little rusty because I
didn't think the Condominium Property Regime applied to RS. It only
applied to Ag.
MR. DARROW: A CPR usually, Condominium Property Regime is usually
used in a multiple family or resort type situation where you're creating like an
apartment or a resort where you have multiple owners of portions of a
property, yet you're not subdividing. So you're creating separate ownership.
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An apartment is a good example. So when you look at real property tax records,
you'll see one TMK(Tax Map Key), but that TMK is broken up into multiple
units that are owned by separate individuals. That is a process that's actually
normally not done by the Planning Department, but it's done by the Real Estate
Commission. They create the Condominium Property Regime.
The way the Planning Department looks at it is it's basically one property
with multiple owners. Previously, there was an allowance to do CPR's in the
Agricultural District. That was changed, I'm just guessing maybe about in
2007 or 2008 with Director Yuen, where if you want to do a Condominium
Property Regime in the Agricultural District, you have to comply with
Subdivision Code, which basically means you need to have the land area. If
the zoning is AG-1 (Agricultural) and you have two acres but you want three
units, you cannot meet the Subdivision Code because you would need three
acres to create those units. So at that point, basically if you're going to go
through CPR, you might as well go through Subdivision, because then it
creates separate ownership for each parcel.
So that was a loophole that was in our Code and rules, and that's been
eliminated. Right now, I think since that was passed, we've had maybe one
that's come in through the Planning Department. You still have to go through
the same process, but it's more appropriate to actually go through Subdivision
and create separate ownership. I hope that answers your question. Sorry for
being so long-winded.
MS. LEE LOY: No,thanks, Mr. Darrow. Those things are moving along. I
wanted to talk a little bit, because when I read the water,they have seven units
of water which would allow for the seven dwellings. But after that, that pretty
much caps them, right?
MR. DARROW: Correct. Yeah, and so,just to kind of back up. The
intention of this condition in not only this rezoning but previous rezoning, is
when somebody's coming in from—and changing the zoning from, in this
case, Agricultural 5 acres to Residential 22,000 square feet, you're already
increasing the density, you know, from one property to six properties.
If you allow second dwellings or `ohana's on that, it's going to double the
density again. And so in the past, the Administrations as well as the Council,
have not allowed that opportunity. In this particular case the applicant is not
requesting to remove this condition, but to put an amendment in Condition "J"
to allow the opportunity for `ohana on one of the lots, and to utilize that
additional water unit.
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MS. LEE LOY: Jeff, one more question. Part of the Conditions of Approval
talks about, which is Condition "I"', the Affordable Housing, and we heard the
applicant mention that they wanted to create some rental units. How does
Condition "P" apply to that statement from the applicant?
MR. DARROW: Chapter 11, which is the Housing Code, has the requirements
to have to submit an Affordable Housing Agreement with the Office of
Housing. In this particular case, because they are proposing six lots, it does
trigger the need to be able to submit and get approval of an Affordable
Housing Agreement with the Office of Housing and Community Development.
So when they do go in and meet with them they can speak to them about the
options. If they choose to do affordable rental units with their houses they
could come up with an agreement with Housing on that particular possibility.
MS. LEE LOY: One more question, Mr. Darrow. In the Conditions of
Approval it talks about five years to get through the Subdivision process. Is
that a manageable amount of time? And I'm asking because we see time
extensions specifically around this particular condition, and the applicants
trying to satisfy those conditions when the Subdivision process actually takes
a lot longer.
MR. DARROW: Well, we're hoping with our new EPIC (Electronic
Processing and Information Center) system that that will change. But if it
doesn't change and the applicants have difficulty meeting that five-year
timeframe, we do have Condition "S"that allows for a one-time
Administrative time extension up to an additional five years.
So they do have the ability to have ten years. If they cannot meet that then
they would have to come back before Commission and Council for an
additional time extension. But I would believe at this point that they would be
able to manageably meet that deadline of five years.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks for answering the questions. I'm going to yield at
this time. I want to hear from the rest of my colleagues. You know, housing
is so critical for everyone, and this is an opportunity. But I'm also really
curious if through deed restrictions, there's a way to insure that we can keep
some of it affordable, you know, not just on a yearly basis. But that's maybe
something they can work out with the Department of Housing. Thanks Jeff
for answering the questions. I yield at this time.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else? Mr. Richards.
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MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. And I'm not sure how to direct this
question. You know, listening to my colleagues talking about the Affordable
Housing component, actually any housing component for this County, but
looking at six lots, and looking at your map, you know, it looks to be
approximately all about the same size. Is there an interest of going for seven
lots? And I don't know if that's a possibility.
Because you have that water allotment that is, you know, valuable. And to
not use it I think would be short-sighted for the community as a whole. Or if
we haveI mean and this is not for me to decide, this is something for you to
decide, but I'd sure appreciate the fact you're putting and enforcing and would
like for you to be able to use this somehow. So I don't know if you are firm
on this or you're just talking about it. Chair, can he respond?
MR. PIPAN: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Richards for the question. As for why we
didn't pursue seven lots to begin with, we went back and forth with Planning
quite a bit on the most appropriate zoning designation for this specific parcel.
And as I recall part of that discussion was around the infrastructure
requirements that would come into play when we did exceed six units. So at
six units, you're allowed for a private non-dedicable right-of-way of 20-foot
width with 16-foot pavement width. Above six lots you're stuck with a
50-foot right-of-way. So if we did pursue seven lots, we wouldn't be able to
have seven lots because of the increase in right-of-way.
MR. RICHARDS: One of the paradoxes. Okay, that answers that. I certainly
am very interested in figuring out how to support you using that other water
allotments. So, thanks Chair, I'll yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Anyone else? Mr. Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. How long have you folks owned this property?
And perhaps I'll address you since you're here.
MR. PIPAN: I will defer to the Wards. Please help me out? Do you recall
when you bought this?
MS. WARD: Yeah, I believe it's been about a year-and-a-half now, I believe.
MR. INABA: Thank you. And then, do you folks own any other property
here in Kona?
MS. WARD: Yes, we're currently building a home on Hualalai Road.
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MR. INABA: Okay. And your intention you say, is for rental. Realistically,
what are we looking to rent as affordable, if we're talking affordable?
MS. WARD: And I use the word, affordableI don't necessarily mean that.
I think that word, affordable, might mean something very specific in Hawaii.
Really, what we meant by it was to build anywhere from like a 1,700-1,800
square foot home, three bed, two bath kind of a home. A typical family home,
not like a big multi-million dollar—million dollar kind of situation. At home
a family—could support having a family rent.
MR. INABA: Okay, yeah, and what does that family rent mean to you?
MS. WARD: Honestly, I'm not quiteI'm not as familiar with the rental
prices, especially now in Hawaii. I think they changed a lot from what we
could tell from back here in Nebraska. After COVID (Coronavirus Disease)
hit I think a lot of the daily rentals turned into monthly and annual rentals.
And so it kind of shifted the market from what we could tell from here. And
so I'm not sure where they've settled back to at this point.
MR. INABA: For you folks what is the timeline you anticipate to complete
this entire project from the subdivision to building of the structures?
MS. WARD: It's our goal to start immediately. We've already purchased the
land. We own the land already flat out, and we already have bank approval to
provide us the funding to begin immediately.
MR. INABA: Okay. And when do you anticipate to complete all of the
work?
MS. WARD: Certainly within the five years. I would hope closer to the three
to four years. We've, again, our experience so far in building in Hawaii has
been during COVID time. So getting to where we are on our personal home
has taken longer than anticipated due to COVID and a lot of things around
that. So, honestly, I'm hoping that once COVID is a little further behind us,
that things will go a little speedier.
MR. INABA: Thank you, Mrs. Ward. For the preservation plan, it says in the
report, at least the part that I read,that it's not been completely carried out.
When are we looking to have that completed?
MS. WARD: Once we have the approval. It's my understanding, as soon as
we have the approval, then we'll move forward with it becoming a
subdivision and dividing it. That's when we'll have the archeologists and the
appropriate people back out there to clearly define where that lava tube and
the wall is and to clearly and define what that sizing around that would be.
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Because that might cause us to even shift and make sure we preserve where
the road will go. So again, that's something that as soon as we're approved,
it's my understanding we can move forward with immediately.
MR. INABA: Have those areas not been clearly defined? I know you folks
already have
MS. WARD: They have, but it's my understanding that it would be in our
the correct thing to do is to hire someone again to completely spot, GPS
(Global Positioning System) wise, exactly where those are. Currently there's
some kind of fallen down, or there's some fencing that's around it. But I
think it's our intention to hire somebody else to go back out there and clearly
define where it is.
MR. INABA: Thank you, Mrs. Ward. Your representative here might have
something to add.
MR. PIPAN: Yes, thank you, Mr. Inaba. The AIS (Archaeological Inventory
Survey) does give positions with GPS accuracy and they explain some ways
that they're able to increase that somewhat from a regular ten meter,plus or
minus to somewhere in the range of five meters. However, that's not survey-
grade accuracy.
So as one of the conditions of the preservation plan, a survey will be
conducted of the preservation areas and recorded with the deed. Then the
interim 20-foot preservation buffer will be erected and confirmed. That will
be in place throughout the subdivision development and construction process.
After that's completed, there will be a permanent 10-foot buffer where no
activities will take place, basically.
MR. INABA: Okay. And question for our staff in Hilo. For the affordable
housing component being that it triggers Chapter 11, is it correct that the
landowners will only need to earn one credit for this development?
MR. DARROW: Council Member Inaba, I'm not absolutely sure if it's one
credit. I know that being that they are requesting more than four lots that it
does trigger the requirement for them to be able to do the housing agreement.
My understanding that it would be 20 percent of the project. So in this case,
it's going to be 1.25 or 1.2 around there regarding affordable, but I'm not sure
in regards to credits.
MR. INABA: Thank you, Mr. Darrow. I'll stop here and open it up to the
rest of my colleagues. Thank you.
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ms. Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Aloha. Thank you for being here Mr. Pipan and Mr. and
Mrs. Ward. Council Member Inaba asked one of the questions that I was
going to ask in what you considered affordable renting prices. We do have an
extreme shortage of long-term rentals, especially now. We are being
inundated by people moving here, buying homes cash, sight unseen for
hundreds of thousands of dollars over asking price.
I appreciate you saying that, you know, you're not necessarily aware and you
don't intend to build mansions or million-dollar homes, but shacks are selling
for $1.2 million in normal neighborhoods right now. So I have serious
concerns about our community and the state of our housing market and this.
I mean I went to a restaurant the other night and the immediate question that I
got from three people that I knew at the restaurant was, "What can you do
about helping us to endure and survive this onslaught?" And my response
was, "Well, you know, what part of the constitution do you think I should not
have to abide by when setting that policy for our County?" And the
gentleman said, "Well I think we have a great constitution." And to which I
laughed and appreciated that bit of joy in an otherwise really, really tragic
circumstance.
Because we keep getting pushed to build, build, build, because we need more
housing. But I question the valid, authentic design of this housing to be
affordable to anybody who actually already lives here. Because we find
ourselves in a perpetual cycle of building for those who don't live here yet.
Because when they come there with big money and big promises, yeah it puts
money in our coffers as a County from taxes, but we end up in the same
circumstances we've always been in.
I thank you for answering one of my questions, Mrs. Ward, about if you
planned on living in one of these homes. It sounds like you already are
building somewhere off of Hualalai Road, so you'll have a different residence.
I guess for me this is the overall principle. I also have to say, Mr. Pipan, I've
received a number of very concerning emails from people that had complaints
and stated that they felt manipulated and bullied into potentially changing
their testimony in order to play the game of, if you give this then we'll give
that.
And something else that I talked to some friends about the other day when
people say, "Hey, so you're into politics?" And I like to say, "No, I'm in
public service." Because the definition of politics is actually the science of
government. But we have somehow accidentally got into this point where the
term politics becomes a disclaimer for the shucking and jiving, and the
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backroom deals, and we'll just ignore that and we'll give you this, and how
about the other?
But when we look at the overall broad spectrum of the needs for our
community, to me it doesn't necessarily mean perpetuating this—you know,
it's hard we live in a capitalist society. We live in a, you know, free country.
It could be contested whether or not Hawaii I'm going to digress here but I
find some real concerns on the issues related to this property; to the purchase;
to its one-year or ten-years or any amount of time,just turning into another
big investment where somebody comes, you know, subdivides; builds six
homes and the avoidance of utilizing or building and creating seven lots to use
all seven water credits in order to not then put in the infrastructure required
with six versus seven concerns me.
We've just seen it over and over and over again. So I'm not feeling
comfortable with this. I'm not feeling that the community that this is going
to—would land directly in the middle of, and I grew up on a half-acre Ag lot
on Ahikawa Street and Ahulani Street right there. It was very different than it
is now, and people are hanging on by their fingernails to even get into a
housing market if you already live here, and I don't think this helps that
paradigm.
I think this perpetuates identifying Hawaii as a commodified resource where
our land—you know, deals can be made for culture to be overlooked or not
overlooked based on the parameters or archeological surveys. And our
resources are too cheap. We let it go too cheap. And I want to hold us to a
higher standard of that because our infrastructure cannot sustain the onslaught
that's already here and is heading our way. And there has to be more. There
just has to be more. So with that I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Thank you. Yeah, you know, I agree with Ms. Villegas and
we're all concerned about the cost of housing on our island. And I think it'll
behoove all of us to do whatever we can from a legislative standpoint to make
sure that the cost of housing, particularly with materials and construction.
And we do have something coming up tomorrow that's going to be vitally
important to the future of our island, I think.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Chung, so sorry, having a difficult time hearing
you.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, thank you. Anyway, I'll just get to my question. And
maybe this is something for Corporation Counsel or Jeff. You know, we've
heard representations from the applicant. I think, if I heard correctly, that they
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want to provide some rentals in the Kona area just as they have seen in, I think
it's Nebraska where they're at. I'm concerned about, you know,the
proliferation of vacation rentals, however. And I'm just wondering from a
legal standpoint, I kind of looked briefly through the ordinance and, you
know, the supporting materials, but I'm just wondering if, you know, I want to
take people for their word that they're going to try to create more rentals. But
would it be possible to put a restriction where by, if the rezoning is approved,
that it cannot be put into the vacation rental inventory. Possible? Corporation
Counsel, Jeff, anyone?
MR. DARROW: Aloha, Council Member Chung. Looking at the situation in
this particular zoning that they're requesting is residential in a low density
urban area. It's not one of the areas that would allow Short Term Vacation
Rentals (STVR) as a permitted use, but we do have our Condition "J"which
does allow for restrictive covenants. Right now, focusing on prohibiting
second dwellings, but it could also be easily added in there, prohibiting
vacation rentals as well.
MR. CHUNG: So, and I really do appreciate that, Jeff. So as it stands right
now, the zoning that they're seeking would not allow for vacation rentals
anyway.
MR. DARROW: There was a period of time that allowed—when the STVR
law came into fruition, it allowed a period of time for people that wlere
operating in residential zonings and different zonings to come in and be
grandfathered, what we call Nonconforming Use. And that particular time is
long-passed. There are only particular areas that are allowed as permitted
uses now. For residential type zoning, you have to be in the General Plan
Resort Node to allow that to be a permitted use. And this particular area is in
the General Plan LUPAG (Land Use Allocation Pattern Guide) Map Low
Density Urban, which would not allow that.
MR. CHUNG: Thank you very much, Jeff. Next question, and you know,
this is not real germane to this particular rezoning, but it does have some
applicability, so I'm going to ask it. You know, we've heard many, many
times from people who are faced with some violations of restrictive
covenants. They've been told by some people within the Planning
Department I think, that the Planning or the County does not enforce
restrictive covenants. I don't know how true that is, but given this Condition
"J"that you talk about regarding—requiring the landowner to create these
restrictive covenants, does that now put the duty on the County to enforce the
restrictive covenants?
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MR. DARROW: In this particular case, I mean, overall as far as the first
statement, the Planning Department does not normally enforce restrictive
covenants that are created by a subdivision or an association. But if there's a
specific condition that is in the ordinance that limits or prohibits a particular
use, and even in their restrictive covenants and it's not complied with, the
Planning Department can get involved and issue a violation for violating the
condition of the ordinance.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, very interesting. Thank you again, Jeff. I really, really
do appreciate your wealth of information. You know, in this situation, of
course there's a larger picture here rather than just these localized issues. I
don't normally do this, and I don't even know whose district this is in. Whose
district this is in? Holeka's? I will tell you this. In this particular case, I'm
going to be looking to him for guidance, and in all probability be voting the
way that Council Member votes on this matter. I'm not saying that I would do
that every time, but for this particular case, and others that may be similar to it
in the future, I will be looking for guidance from that Council Member.
Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you Mr. Chung. Anyone else? Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you Chair, and thank you all for being here today.
And Mr. and Mrs. Ward, I want to just say that I concur with the statements of
Council Member Chung and Council Member Villegas. And I'm not sure that
you're aware to the extent that folks come to us with the promise of affordable
housing, and those promises are not kept. And I hate to be unfair or anything,
but I do want you to know that that's the history. So some of us come with a
little bit of a lens of that history.
I want to ask first and foremost, you guys do have townhomes in Nebraska.
Why was multi-family housing or something like that, not pursued as an
alternate in this case?
MRS. WARD: I guess we hadn't really considered it. Knowing that when we
purchased the property or when we were looking at the property, the person
before us was already looking to have it subdivided into six. And that just
seemed like the reasonable thing to do with that piece of land, especially since
it was surrounded by and it was already zoned as Ag. I guess we hadn't even
considered that it could go to something so much higher density like
townhomes. That wasn't what we had even considered.
MS. KIMBALL: Did you (Mr. Pipan) have something to add to that?
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MR. PIPAN: Yes, thank you, Ms. Kimball. It pertains particularly to the
water availability and the particulars for this site. Seven units and the kind of
long, thin layout of the site doesn't lend itself well to multi-family
development. Plus the entire surrounding area is single-family residences. It
doesn't really fit in with the surrounding area. So, A, there's no water
available for any more than seven units and building a seven-unit
condominium single building doesn't really fit with what's around it.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, thank you. Deputy Darrow, I had a follow-up
question to my colleague's about STVRs. While these units would not be
eligible for the Nonconforming Use permit, if the properties were later sold,
they could become available as hosted STVRs. Is that correct?
MR. DARROW: Aloha, Council Member Kimball. You're touching upon a
tough area. We're in the process right now, I mean, there's been a lot of talk
about hosted vacation rentals. And there's been different messaging put out to
the public regarding this. We're actually currently in the process of being able
to collaborate with our staff and be able to come up with a consistent message
of what a hosted vacation rental is. You're not going to find that term in our
Zoning Code or in our rules. It's basically a term that was created when they
created non-hosted vacation rentals, which is the STVR bill that we have
before us.
So the difference between the two is that non-hosted is one where somebody
does not reside in the home, yet rents out the entire home. That's the
un-hosted or non-hosted vacation rental. A hosted vacation rental has been
used to identify homes that are being rented with the owner or occupant living
inside and renting out a portion of a home, similar to like a Bed and Breakfast
or those types of things.
The way, I mean please take it with a grain of salt, and again we're trying to
get together currently to come up with a very strong message. At some point
in the future, we either need to codify it and go through the whole process as
we did before or we make it an unpermitted use. But basically, the way it's
looked at right now is when somebody is in a single-family dwelling and lives
there, a family, they have the opportunity of renting their home or a portion of
their home to individuals living in rooms. We don't monitor whether they
rent those rooms short-term or long-term. So that's where this term, hosted
came about.
There is a big difference between a hosted vacation rental and what we call a
Bed and Breakfast, which is very similar but there is a big difference. A
single-family dwelling limits the home to a single family or up to five
unrelated individuals. A Bed and Breakfast allows for family to live in the
home, but also to rent up to five bedrooms, and to allow an additional ten
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people to rent out that particular home. So there is a big difference when it
comes to occupancy.
Again, I caution using the term, hosted vacation rental right now. I would just
look at it as somebody renting out a portion of their home if they're living in
there, whether they rent it out short-term or long-term. And yes, that is a
possibility.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. The last few words there were the crux of what
I was trying to get at. Please, I understand how important words are here and
the semantics, and I do encourage the department to move forward and
quickly on these semantics around STVRs. The hosted vacation rental in my
district is one of the key challenges, I'm sure you know, people are calling
you all the time from our office on that. But I hope that clarifies to my
colleagues that there is still a potential for vacation rental in my mind with this
particular approach to this property.
I wanted to, and I know this was covered in the minutes of the Planning
Commission meeting, but I want to be clear myself on this with respect to the
preservation plan and what was required, and ways around that requirement.
It sounds like—let me find the appropriate location here. The preservation
plan required the formal survey and then they would have to put in some
mitigation measures. However, the owners could go back to the Preservation
Society and try to get around the preservation plan. Am I correct or incorrect
on that? It must proceed in this way. They must get the survey and must do
the mitigation measures. Thank you.
MR. DARROW: If I could answer that? If you refer to Condition "L" it's
very clear that the applicants are required by this ordinance to comply
specifically with that condition, which speaks to the metes and bounds survey
as well as the buffer to preserve the preservation sites. They don't have
another option. There was a previous option of data recovery or preservation.
In this case, the only option is to preserve in place.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Deputy for that clarification. I wasn't entirely
clear that had been dealt with.
MR. DARROW: I'm sorry, Council Member, if I could interject. My
colleague brought to my attention one difference between what we had been
speaking about, hosted vacation rental and Bed and Breakfast. There is one
big difference, and that is that a Bed and Breakfast also requires a use permit.
And so that's the other part. In the future, that is something that can be
considered by the department. And in moving forward with trying to figure
out how we're going to identify and figure a pathway for these, possibly, that
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may be an option that we require a use permit for so-called hosted vacation
rentals. Thank you.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you Deputy, appreciate that. That's all for me for
right now. I do want to hear from the rest of my colleagues. But I can assure
my colleagues, like Council Member Chung's position, that I'm going to take
Council Member Inaba's lead on this. I feel like this is a maybe not
fully-baked product and maybe it needs a little more time in the oven before
we make a decision on it. Thank you, I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you Ms. Kimball. Anyone else? I also did
want to mention that Mr. Pipan had put forward to the Council the request for
that seventh water commitment. So I wanted to make sure we had that
discussion, in the event that paperwork needs to be done in order to, you
know, discuss and entertain that potential amendment. So,thank you.
MS. VILLEGAS: One more thing.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Go ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Mr. Darrow for your clarification of
Ms. Kimball's questions. And just as further clarification, to make sure I've
got it straight, so this is all archeological findings stay in place is not a data
recovery, correct?
MR. DARROW: Correct.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay great,thank you so much. And then I just had a
quick question for the Wards. I just wondered if you had any other large
pieces of property or, you know, tracks like this that you were looking at in
the Kona area for current purchases. It sounds like this property is completely
purchased and taken care in that capacity, so now you're navigating the
development portions. But I wondered if there were other properties in
escrow at this time?
MS. WARD: We have looked at another property, but had not pursued it.
We're not pursuing any other property.
MS. VILLEGAS: Did that property happen to be on Walua Road?
MS. WARD: Yes, exactly. And it just—it was bigger than a project that we
are capable of dealing with.
MS. VILLEGAS: Got it. Thank you for confirming that. Yeah, that property
was going to require much broader investments and infrastructure.
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MS. WARD: Yeah, and it has a lot of archeological sites on it as well. My
husband can attest, when we were there in May we hiked a lot of and it was
able to see a lot of it. And so, it just would be more than—we're not big
developers. We own some townhomes here in Omaha, but they were already
built homes. So we're not—and I know it's hard to try to express who we are
to you in a meeting like this, but we're just average hardworking people and
we have bought some townhomes here in Omaha.
We have seen that it is a good income stream, not making us rich but
providing affordable housing for people. We have elderly people that rent
some of our property, and to be honest with you, there's one woman in
particular, we haven't raised her rent in three years now. She's on a fixed
income. She's sweet as can be. She takes very good care of our townhome.
So, you know, our intent is not to come there and make loads of money. Our
intent is to come there and create an adequate income stream for it.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Mrs. Ward. I appreciate you sharing that. And
yeah, it is awkward to be on Zoom, but at least we get to see you. And I
appreciate your humble sharing of those intentions. And I'm sure you are
hardworking people. The Nebraska and Omaha area, I mean that is kind of
salt to the earth in the center of a lot of activity.
Hawaii is very different in many of those ways. I also, you know, it breaks
my heart and it seems a cheap fine to have paid, for the prior property owner
to only been fined $10,000 for bulldozing this property and destroying
architectural sites that were there. To no fault of your own. You know,that's
just something that has happened. Unfortunately, it's happened a number of
places. And so, it's one of the travesties.
MS. WARD: To the vacation rental thing, I mean we have no plans of doing
that, if that becomes part of the approval process of this work, completely fine
with that. That is not our intention at all to ever do anything, less than—here
all of our townhomes are yearly based.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, yearly rental agreements? Okay. It's just we are in
a rental market where if you can find a long-term rental, the amount that's
being charged so far supersedes what our ALICE (Asset Limited, Income
Constrained, Employed) families are making that there's no way they could
afford that even. I know many people. And so you understand, as Council
Member Kimball shared, you're kind of experiencing the challenges—I'll say
for myself from a personal experience, a Kama`aina girl now sits in this role,
who hasI feel like many of these stories continue to be told.
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And it relates back to real estate speculation. And so the sensitivity of the
people that live here based on that is very heightened right now. So thank you
for listening and for understanding, and I agree that this probably isn't
completely baked. And so I want to make sure that everybody operating on
this kind of an investment paradigm gets held to the highest standard of
impact fees and contribution and participation in an authentic manner with the
land that they would then be stewarding. They own it. So thank you.
MS. WARD: I will say, if I could also interject,that here in Nebraska,
obviously land, we have a lot of it, but it's also part of—owning land is
something that is valued here. It's in our DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid), our
grandparents owned farms, etcetera; and my husband's parents and my
parents. And so us pursuing looking at land is something that we do not—as
seeing it as like to be developer type. It's more of that's just who we are.
Owning land and preserving that is just part of what we're doing here.
MS. VILLEGAS: Mrs. Ward I totally get that. And so you know, historically
our host culture didn't own land.
MS. WARD: Right, true.
MS. VILLEGAS: So there's a lot of differences and as we navigate in the 21st
century, those value systems are very heightened right now. So thank you for
your understanding on that.
MS. WARD: I do. I appreciate that.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Chair David.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair Kierkiewicz. For clarification, I think
Deputy Director Darrow, I heard you say, and correct me if I'm wrong, that
this application will strictly be based on the archeological recommendation,
the report, and that the data collection is not an option. Is that correct?
MR. DARROW: Correct. Again, if we could refer to Condition "L".
Previously, there was the option for data recovery or preservation. At the
Planning Commission, there was a Condition "M"that was for the data
recovery. That was removed. And the only option at this time is preservation
in place. And so that's our Condition "L". Condition "M"was revised to
include all the measures regarding the fencing and the speed bump, stop sign,
and a mirror that would be placed. So again, it is not an option.
MS. DAVID: Thank you for that clarification, because I'm going back and
forth from the transmittal and what was discussed in there. And then thank
you for putting out the specifics on that preservation plan requirement. And
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so, right now I'm going to yield. And I really respect Council Member
Inaba's position and comments on this application as well. So I yield, mahalo.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Mr. Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you, Chair. You know, I just want to circle back. I've
had numerous discussions with the neighbors on Ihumoe. And I just want to
point out that Kaiminani is the main drive through Palisades, which is shown
here in our map which is small properties, whereas Ihumoe is part the Kona
Acres Subdivision one-acre lots. And the current zoning and the way that this
property is, is in line with the rest of Kona Acres.
So I do think that there needs to be more conversation. And the neighbors did
have a big part to play in the Leeward Planning Commission meeting and
testifying there.
So coming here with the request to, you know, this is something that they
wanted in there, this Condition "J". Having it removed, I don't think it's
something we should just vote on today. I'm going to be asking for a
postponement to work with the applicant to further discuss how we can best
work with neighbors and the overall community to make sure that there's a
benefit to this community. Because the average hardworking person is not
able to get a place in Hawai`i, and we need to be mindful of that. We all have
value and love to own land. Most people here can't afford it. So when the
opportunity presents itself like this, I think we can have a fruitful discussion
and I'll be asking for the postponement, but I'll leave it to maybe after, if you
have any comments, Chair.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ms. Lee Loy, you had your
light on.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I was going to speak to the postponement, but I know
you haven't had an opportunity to share your thoughts around this. So I
wanted to speak to the postponement.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah, thank you. I think everyone has already
covered it.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Chair.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Oh, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Hi, you have the
floor.
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MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes, I exist. Thank you. I was waiting.
I appreciate the conversation so far and thank you for recognizing me Chair. I
just have a few questions. A lot of it was covered already. There was a
mention in the notes that there is a well that DWS (Department of Water
Supply) maintains, and it touches on lot number six, I believe, which is closer
to the access road. But there's no sewer to be built, sorry, there's no sewer in
the area. Is that correct?
MR. DARROW: Correct.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And so that lot has a restriction that you
cannot put—my question is can you put an individual sewer system on that
lot? Or just cannot be within the 1,000-foot radius?
MR. DARROW: It's within the 1,000-foot radius.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so they can still put an individual
sewer system as prescribed by the engineer outside the 1,000-foot radius?
MR. DARROW: Outside. Correct.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. And then being that
it's a subdivision, is there any park space, community space required? I know
it's a six parcel and under subdivision which has its own rules as far as I
know.
MR. DARROW: I don't believe so for this. It's usually a much larger
subdivision that will trigger park requirements.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. DARROW: They do have the requirement for Fair Share, which is
Condition "0"which does part of that payment goes to Parks and
Recreation.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But not within the individual subdivision
being created. Okay. And then just for the owners, you are aware that you
have a lava tube and the remains of a structure there. I mean, are you aware
of what's in the tube? I can see the plan to keep that safe and fence it off,
but—and there's mana behind that area, which is why it was recorded and
fenced off by SHPD (State Historic Preservation Division).
MS. WARD: Yeah, we've read the report and seen the report. We've seen
the pictures. It's fairly dense in there now, so the times that we have been
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there we haven't actually crawled into—close up to it. But we've read all of
the reports that were done prior to our ownership.
MR. WARD: The opening is very small to the tube. I have actually looked at
it. It would be very difficult to crawl into it, it's very tight. It's a very small
space.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MS. WARD: We're aware of the significance of it, but the fact that there was
evidence of a fire, some nuts—what do you call it? Burnt wood. I'm having a
brain-freeze right now. But we did read all the reports, yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Those kinds of places have a lot
of meaning, and so it's very important to protect it.
MR. WARD: Absolutely.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But if someone was to build a house on
the lot, and I saw this in the minutes from the Planning Commission meeting,
as far as protecting it, GPS accuracy, the fact that there's a lava tube, and then
creating access to an individual lot from the access road being created and
working around that,there was a lot of discussion over whether that lot
number five would even be able to have a house that had access from the road
and how that would work and fit while maintaining that perimeter around that
area. I thought that was interesting. I'm just saying it because I'm reading
through the minutes and it's in there.
How you go about that will be on you, but it's incredibly important that you
do everything you can to protect it. And there's a lot of—there's just been
too many times, as we've seen on this particular lot as well, where it's been
bulldozed, flattened, or has been knocked down or the fence has been
removed. And people just don't respect things the way that they should. So
I'm just saying that not for you to defend anything, but just make sure that you
are very understanding of what it is and the potential meaning that place has.
MS. WARD: Yes, absolutely.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, and hearing the concerns of my
Council Members, we are in a housing crisis. It's a mess. Property values are
crazy. Property taxes are up. And I appreciate you saying that this is going to
be rentals, but once you create seven different parcels, that's what's
happening with this, correct?
MS. WARD: Six.
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MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Six parcels. I mean what happens after,
that is up to you. And we lose control after that. So, I appreciate that you're
saying this is going to be rentals going forward and long-term rentals, but in
today's market and given you may or may not have children, we are not here
forever. Anything goes after this ordinance goes. I'm just saying that because
we can talk all day about rentals and affordable housing, but in reality, the
owners of the parcels can do whatever they like with these parcels once
they're created,period. And after, that I don't think that we have any control
over what happens. Is that true, Mr. Darrow?
MR. DARROW: Unless there's a particular condition placed in the
ordinance. But in this particular case, that hasn't been spoken to or even
discussed. Normally when a developer comes forward that is proposing an
affordable housing project, it's pretty clear that's what they're going to do.
They have an agreement with Housing that they're going to be meeting a
particular AMI (Area Median Income) and that's what the project's going to
be for. But in this particular case, again, I think, similar to what the applicant
said, the word"affordable" is a little different. It's being, you know, spoken
about differently in one context, as the other.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, this is not an affordable housing
project.
MR. DARROW: No, it is not.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The "want"to provide affordable
housing is there, but again, I mean, they can sell the properties in a
year-and-a-half if it was done in that timeline. Or they can rent them out. It's
open game. And I think Aaron Chung asked that earlier, but has there ever
been ais there a way to restrict the selling of a property in the future?
MR. DARROW: I appreciate that you brought that up again, because I
wanted to address Council Member Chung's question earlier. When I was
answering it, I was answering it in light of un-hosted or non-hosted STVRs.
As Council Member Heather Kimball brought up, there is the ability or
possibility of doing a quote, and again, I'm using the term loosely, "hosted
vacation rental," if somebody lives or rents in the house; lives there and rents
out a portion.
So if the intention of the commission is to prohibit vacation rentals across the
board whether it's hosted or non-hosted, that can be placed as a condition in
Condition "J".
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PC-11 July 20,2021
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I guess my question is more—and thank
you for that. But my question is more, can the County restrict selling a
property in the future to maintain it as a rental property?
MR. DARROW: I don't know about selling it but the use, regardless if it's
sold, I mean I hope I understood you correctly. Because this condition is in
this ordinance related to that property regardless of who owns it, they would
not be able to use it for vacation rentals.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But there's nothing stopping them from
selling the property in the future?
MR. DARROW: Correct.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Is there a way to restrict that?
MR. DARROW: I've never seen that. I mean, normally an ordinance for
rezoning, we don't want to get to where we're doing conditional to the point
that it's a conditional use, to where, you know, you cannot sell the property,
right? The whole point is zoning, is this appropriate zoning for this particular
area? If it is, let's approve it. If it's not? Let's not. But if we end up
conditioning the use of the property down the road to the point that the current
owner can't sell it, what would they do? Would they come back here before
they sold it? I mean that's a tough thing.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Agreed. No it's just in light of
everything's that happening and you can see it across the state, it's just trying
to wrap
MR. DARROW: I mean normally in this particular case
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: I'm sorry to interrupt, but the five minutes have
lapsed. And so if you could just wrap this up. You'll have another
opportunity to talk story about this measure at the next committee meeting.
Thank you.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Appreciate it, Chair. Go ahead, finish
what you're going to say, Jeff.
MR. DARROW: I was just going to say that, I mean, it's only because the
applicant had mentioned that her intention is to do rentals. Normally,
somebody coming in to create six lots, they normally have the intention toI
mean they can keep them all for their kids or family, but normally their
intention is to sell the lots.
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PC-11 July 20,2021
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you, Mr. Darrow and
Ms. Jackson. I appreciate the latitude, Chair. And mahalo for the applicants
and for the discussion so far and for heeding the concerns or wants of our
Council Member for the area. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you so much. Just a couple things. I'm glad
Jeff brought up our role, which is to make a determination on what is or isn't
the proper use on the matter before us. So I just want to make sure that is
continuously guiding our work. And oftentimes what infrastructure assets that
exist or don't really begin to hone in and prescribe what is actually doable on
the property.
You know, I wanted to share with the Wards, this is my second term on the
Council. I was able to Chair Planning last term, but I will tell you we had
dozens of applicants come before this body looking for time extensions on
projects. And so, there's frustration and a little bit of alarm when we have
new folks coming in with these sorts of requests saying that they're going to
be able to meet these timing elements.
And one of the things that I want to request Planning Department, Jeff, is if
we can begin to build into these ordinances some sort of accountability around
filing of annual reports, or something of that nature. Because oftentimes we
pass these ordinances; don't know what happens unless there is a request
that's coming back before this body, such as a time extension or rezone.
So I do want to request that be part of the discussions, potentially that
Mr. Inaba is going to be having with you and the applicant. I know that there
have been a couple of ordinances that have come before us that do prescribe
reports being submitted to the Planning Department, but I'd just like to see
without it being overly burdensome, if there are ways in which the Council
can stay informed on progress of these various developments. Don't need a
response now, but just want you to know that this is something that I'd like for
you folks to consider. Thank you.
I appreciate you, Mr. Inaba, willing to champion your community and work in
partnership with residents in this area. I know that they have done quite a bit
with the Leeward Planning Commission, and I do want to acknowledge that
Mr. Pipan and the Wards have worked, I think, pretty diligently to hear
concerns and address them. And we can see all of that reflected in this
particular ordinance. But there is a little bit more massaging to do, and I just
appreciate your willingness to step up and to kokua in that way. So, I know
you have a motion.
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PC-11 July 20,2021
MR. INABA: Thank you, but real quick Chair. Sorry for that. For the
record, Jeff, could you please share Director Kern's connection with this
project for the record? Being that he does have a relationship with the
applicants.
MR. DARROW: Are you referring to the fact that he's conflicted on this
particular application?
MR. INABA: Yes.
MR. DARROW: So it would be because Land Planning Hawaii is
representing the applicants. I'm not sure beyond that if there's a relationship
between Director Kern and the applicants, but anytime that Land Planning
Hawaii will represent an applicant, then at that point, I will represent the
department.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. And Land Planning Hawaii is Director
Kern's former firm?
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: No,that's incorrect.
MR. DARROW: Yeah, it was Kern and Associates, but it included several of
the current employees. And then, Kern and Associates became Land Planning
Hawaii under Mr. Pipan and several of Mr. Kern's previous employees.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you, Deputy Director Darrow. I think every once
in a while it's good for us to point out, because sometimes we just think
you're here representing the department, but I think it's good for us as a body
and for the applicants, they know, but for the public to know when there are
professional relationships between the applicant and the Director. So thank
you again, Jeff. And with that I'll make a motion.
Vote on Motion Mr. Inaba moved to postpone Bill 53 to August 3, 2021.
to Postpone: Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy, and carried by the following
(Approved) voice vote.
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
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PC-11 July 20,2021
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Motion carries. Bill 53 is postponed to the
August 3rd Planning Committee meeting. Do I have a motion to forward
Bill 52 to the Council with a positive recommendation?
Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend passage of Bill 52 on
first reading. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: MayI have a motion to postpone Bill 52 to August
3rd meeting?
Motion to Postpone: Mr. Inaba moved to postpone Bill 52 to August 3, 2021.
Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Any discussion?
MR. INABA: I just want to mahalo again Council Members—or everyone
who's voting in favor of this postponement in acknowledgement of the work
that can be done again. So thank you to my colleagues.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Mahalo nui. There is a motion on the floor. All in
favor please say "aye."
Vote on Motion The motion to postpone Bill 52 to August 3, 2021,
to Postpone: was carried by the following voice vote.
(Approved)
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kdneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz–9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Motion carries. Bill 52 is also postponed to the
August 3rd Planning Committee meeting. Thank you so much everyone.
May I have a motion to adjourn?
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PC-11 July 20,2021
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 3:04 p.m., Ms. Kimball moved to adjourn the
MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. Villegas and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kanealii-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, motion carries. Planning Committee is
adjourned.
Approved:
(_..) A
I /
g`
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair (0 ate)
Planning Committee
AK/dt
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