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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN RAWEEMC 2021/09/21 2020-2022 Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, Energy, And Environmental Management 9th Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawai i September 21, 2021 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, ORDER: Energy and Environmental Management was called to order at 11:00 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Vice Chair Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (came in later) STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 378: REQUESTS AN UPDATE FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT REGARDING SOLID WASTE DIVISION PRIORITIES AND CHALLENGES From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated September 1, 2021. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you. Ms. Kierkiewicz. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to close file on Comm. 378. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. RICHARDS: Ms. Kierkiewicz. RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Mahalo nui, Chair. And I believe we have Department of Environmental Management in Kona. Just want to confirm that. CHR. RICHARDS: We do. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, great. Thank you. You know, I had put this communication forward prior to the very temporary, temporary closures of some of our transfer stations because I was really curious about progress being made by the department as it relates to better managing our waste and moving forward on implementation of the integrated Solid Waste Management plan which we adopted earlier this year. You know, right about now is when Director of Finance and members of this administration start talking about the next fiscal year budget, so I wanted to see where we are with this department as it relates to Solid Waste Division priorities, challenges, and also solutions. I know that Director Mansour, Deputy Director Iokepa-Moses, bring a wealth of knowledge and access to partnerships and resources to the table. So looking to better understand how they've leveraged that to put it to work to better this particular division. So with that being said, I just wanted to tee the conversation up and turn it over to the Director and the Deputy for their presentation. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Director and Deputy, please go ahead. (Note: At this time, Director Ramzi Mansour and Deputy Director Brenda Iokepa-Moses came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Good afternoon. Can everyone hear me okay. Sounds like I'm very loud. Thank you for have us here today. Council Member David from our district Ka`u; and Council Member Kierkiewicz, thank you for the invitation. I think it's important that we have these open conversations so we better understand the challenges that we're facing and we can work together to come up with a solution. So with that, I haven't met all of the Council Members in depth. So if you wouldn't mind I would just like to take a few minutes to introduce myself, my background. I am coming over from the U.S. Department of Agricultural Rural Development. I was the State Director there for all of Hawaii Islands in the western pacific. I'm coming over there from a political appointment. Before that and during that time, I'm a 21-year retired from United States Army Reserves as a Combat Engineer. I bring that knowledge to the table, as well as I worked for the Page 2 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 plantation for many years with the farmers in Ka`u, managing 27,000 acres at one time. And then I rolled over to a position with the new owner of the plantation lands to develop the Ka`u coffee farmer's lands and ranchers lands that are in Ka`u. I do bring a lot to the table. My heart is with the rural communities, it's always been. I've been very heavily involved in outreach programs throughout my entire life. Never run from a political office, always did that because that was my heart CHR. RICHARDS: Excuse me, Deputy. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Yes. CHR. RICHARDS: We just had a computer go down so we have to stop. We just had a server crash. So we're going to put the meeting in recess for five minutes, ten? MR. BROWN: Could we take ten please, Chair? CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. We're in recess. Sorry, Deputy, but we have to stop since everything. It is now 11:05 a.m., we'll reconvene at 11:15 a.m. Recess: At 11:05 a.m., the Chair called for a recess. Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 11:21 a.m. CHR. RICHARDS: We have Communication 378 before us. We have Director and Deputy Director of Environmental Management. To the public, we cannot livestream right now, we are recording. And so this will be available to review as a recording going forward but in interest of keeping the meeting on time and on track, we're going to proceed with the recording. Given that, Director and Deputy, please. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Thank you. And in keeping time sensitivity here, I will skip the bio. Everybody can call me up or look online for my bio. But as we started before, I just wanted to introduce myself to some of the Council Members that I haven't had the pleasure to work with, you know, in detail. I'm here with my Director, Ramzi Mansour. He is my assistant today. So unfortunately, our Deputy Chief has family emergencies starting last week. We were hoping that he may be back today; but unfortunately family comes first and he is away from the office again today. So, you know, we're wearing multiple hats as this pandemic's Page 3 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 going through and also as family and real time situations happen with our staff. So please bear with us if you have any questions that we're not able to answer today. We're an open book and we'll be able to answer on many more communications. But hopefully we'll have an open communications moving forward. So we'll go ahead and start. Ramzi, do you have anything to say before we start? MR. MANSOUR: Aloha, everyone. Thank you, Chairman Richards and Committee Members. Definitely during this hard time we have lost, you know, a few staff members within our Solid Waste Division as probably you guys all know. We are wearing different hats. We have, you know, our Division Chief has moved to a different department. Our Recycling Coordinator has moved to a different island. And definitely this COVID has impacted our department from regulatory and policies also. Moving forward, we have multiple hats that Brenda, as the Acting Division Chief currently, to get us through the recruitment process and moving forward. With that, we'll go ahead and start the presentation. Thank you. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: And just to let you know, we understand the importance of the 45-minute conversation afterwards. So although this slide desk seems to be a little intensive I just wanted to make sure that we're going to whip through this pretty quickly as far as the slides. I wanted you to have something to take back with you. You guys can always call me up if you have any questions, you know, later. So with that, we'll start the presentation. (Note: At this time, Director Ramzi Mansour and Deputy Director Brenda Iokepa-Moses came forward and provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office. A copy of the PowerPoint presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 378.1.) MR. MANSOUR: Once again, thank you, Brenda and kudos to my staff. And we are here to entertain any questions that you may have. CHR. RICHARDS: Ms. Kierkiewicz? Ash, can you hear us? We do not hear you. Alright, do you have any questions, Ms. Kierkiwicz? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes, I do. Can you hear me? CHR. RICHARDS: Yes, we can. Go ahead, please. Page 4 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank goodness. I was going to have a heart attack. Matt and I were like, "We have questions." Thank you, Chair. And mahalo nui, Deputy Director, for the presentation. Before I launch into some questions I just have to state for the record and elevate the frustration that was felt, I think among by this body and our community, with that very quick communication around temporary closures that caught everyone off guard. Yeah, you've explained it and I kind of want to get into it a little bit. But when I take a look at your Integrated Solid Waste Management Plan, and there are priorities here that are stated in the document, the top one is education, outreach and public awareness. And that's sorely lacking, which is why that announcement caught a lot of folks by surprise. And then very quickly, there was a creative solution found. And I just wonder why wasn't that on the table or part of the discussion as part of continuity of operations plans? Do you guys have a COOP? MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Yes. Yes, we do. And of course that was an option that wasn't accepted by our union, right, UPW (United Public Workers). So this is not a new situation that we're running into. But we went through the extreme measures of getting the commercial haulers and getting that cease and desist letter. So yeah, there's some work that we need to do with UPW, working on what they propose us to do when we go through exhausting the employee lists. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I think you have to run through all the scenarios with them ahead of time. People pay for service, right. They're paying their property taxes. There's a huge infusion of cash into this particular division. And so people are expecting, "I pay," and then getting a level of service. So I highly encourage you to run through all those possible scenarios and let's get our ducks in a row ahead of time so that we're not causing this panic and headache into community. And you guys know. I shared with you a living document of all the comments and texts and emails our office was getting regarding the closure. So I just really encourage that. We cannot use the pandemic as an excuse anymore. We've been living through COVID-19 for over a year and a half. And we tell everybody, we tell local families, we tell schools, we tell businesses, you guys have to pivot. We as government have to pivot as well. MR. MANSOUR: Could I add a little bit of information? This is not your standard COVID we had last year. We have a new mandate from the Governor now. Last year we didn't have a mandate. Things are very dynamic when it comes to this Delta variant. So it's not—even when they did the Solid Waste Integrated Management Plan, there was no mention about what we're facing today. It's a very dynamic situation. So definitely, as Brenda had mentioned, we get people calling in at 6:40 in the morning,just before they report to work at 7:00 Page 5 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 a.m. So you only got 15 minutes. So there is certain limitations that we had to act upon. So definitely, this is different times than what we had last year for sure. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Again, I'm just going to emphasize the need to be flexible and pivot and run through those scenarios ahead of time so we can ensure continuity of service. You know, Deputy, I do want to mahalo you because you've worked with our office on a couple of projects related to updating the trailer ban. And so I know that we're going to have a discussion about that at Council in a few weeks. I know you've worked really hard on that. But, you know, a couple of things that were not part of the presentation that I want you guys to touch on because core to properly managing our waste stream, again, going back to this Integrated Solid Waste Management Plan, waste diversion. So talk a little bit more about those types of programs and activities, the work that we're doing to support the reuse stations, what's happening on the recycling front. I mean, highlight any key actions that you guys are advancing on a pilot level, on an island-wide level, to divert waste from transfer stations and landfills. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Yes, Ashley. Will do, Councilman Kierkiewicz. Thank you for meeting on the side. Those are our gravy projects. We love to do those. Those are the funner ones. And we are trying to be innovative so we can spread the dollar as far as we can. So definitely next October 9h, I believe, when I come in front of you again I will bring my Recycling Specialist with me as well as our Safety Officer, to talk about both the ban on trailers and also our other programs that we have, DAV (Derelict and Abandoned Vehicles) included. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Is there anything that you'd like to highlight today, some real promising programs to divert waste? MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Sure. Yeah, I mean I think I put calls in to both you and Matt, Councilman Kleinfelder, to talk about our next—we did the first ever special event in Ocean View for Derelict and Abandoned Vehicles. It was usually successful. We took 58 vehicles out of there. And for our rural communities the towing is the big deal. And so we wanted to take an opportunity to educate the community as well that, you know, you can dispose of two vehicles per household, per year, at no cost. It's just getting it to the site which seems to be the obstacle for our rural communities. So that was usually successful. We probably could've took 1,058 vehicles out of Ocean View. But it's just our first one and we wanted to reach out and go to Puna next. We want to make sure that we're reaching out to those. Kohala would be our third place that we would like to go. We also have Uncle Willie from Miloli`i calling me. He's got my number on his direct dial I think, Page 6 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 calling me to check with him about his problem down in Miloli`i, too. So we'd like to have some sub-events. We can't fully fund maybe all of these events, but we would like to have maybe three that we could fund and then maybe do some work with the Council Members in those communities. I think we can do some kind of partnership so we can have some of these mini events in these communities. It's a real problem. And then of course the reuse center. It's highly popular with our community. They love that option to have at the site. It hasn't had the TLC that it's needed in the past so I've kind of, as a supervisorial, rollup my sleeves, I like to go out there and see for myself what's happening and how we can think outside the box to get some creative things happening. So kudos to the staff at Hilo Thrift Store. They've done an amazing job turning that site around. Me and, you know, Council Member Lee Loy met at that site. And it's all about thinking outside of the box, how can we help you. And so that was successful. Kea`au, you know, we're ordering tarps to replace the old ones that have been beat up. And so we're working with the Police Department to get a quonset structure that they have that they don't need. It's very huge. It's like 100 foot by 50 foot. We're going to have that possibly at Waimea because it is so large they're kind of figuring out where they can house it. But anyway, those communications are happening. Recycling is another important—I've been sitting on events that we're been having. We're very short staffed in recycling right now. We've had people out on leave because of family emergencies. But we also lost, you know, George. He was our Project Coordinator for recycling. And so I'm kind of just wearing his hat right now just to make sure that there's supervision of the staff. It's a lot. It's a lot on me but I care about my community and so it's something that we're working through. We have our Recycling Special, Sanne (Berrig), that's she's worked with Council person Kierkiewicz before. She's amazing and she's taken a lot of the lead. So yeah, we're working on some things right now. The cycle of life. We're working on that project right now. Some educational films and videos, we've put that back online. With COVID-19, I mean, that's something that we could be reaching out to the classrooms right away on. So Climb Hawaii is an organization that we've just been introduced to. They're going to help us facilitate that continuity into the classrooms. I think they said they reached out to 22,000 students last year. So we're going to use their networking to get out into the classrooms and not let COVID keep our hands tied in that aspect. Page 7 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 MR. MANSOUR: In addition to that I just would like to add that we did a few events on the house hazardous waste collection events. And I think these were successful. We're doing the life analysis for the waste as we speak. So we're getting more into—and number one is really we need to understand the cost of our business. And that was my top priority taking over the offices. I went around the office asking, "How much does it cost us per ton,per facility?" If we don't understand the cost, we're not going to give you a better business plan. There is a lot of commitment about programs and recycling, and they were thrown in there without understanding the cost. I hate to tell you so. But now we're trying to understand the cost of our business so we could give you a better layout of what we can do and not do. Definitely, as we work on this year the upcoming budget, that's going to be in mind as you've seen from the cost analysis. The cost per ton is almost close to $200 to some facilities. We charge a $114 per ton. All you have to do is just do the math. We're already in the negative. So we need to be able to manage our waste and be fiscally responsible as we move forward. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Director, I'm a bit concerned. Ten months in, we're still doing cost analysis. And so we had some preliminary projections included in today's presentation. How much more time do you guys need and what other resources do you need in order to be able to pull all that information together so you have a clearer, more focused picture of the true cost? MR. MANSOUR: As far as the true cost, we're definitely getting closer. Like I said, it's the staffing issues. We have a few people in our accounting that they have to dig through the records to be able go through the analysis of trying to get the cost per ton. And I think what we presented today is almost 90 percent complete. So definitely we have a good idea of how much it's costing us per ton. Now we have to come back to you guys and it's going to take a political will to be able to change that business model or change the fee structure. From day one we said the current funding system doesn't work. Talking about taxes, we only get six percent, four to six percent. We get $40 to $60 per $1,000 on your taxes. That doesn't pay for all the services that we just showed you. I mean, we're talking about $200 a ton just delivered, not even processed. Forty dollars on $1,000 does not cover that cost. So definitely we need to have the political will of changing the financial structure, and we're going to come to you with that. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I'm going to just push back a little bit here. I disagree. You're continuing the status quo. We have this insatiable thirst for goods and overconsumption and we have to pivot, we have to do different, we have to change mindsets. We have to divert waste from landfill. And I'd like to see a little bit more emphasis from the division working in that arena. I don't think it's Page 8 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 sustainable for the deputy to beI think, what did you say, Brenda, you're wearing three other hats including your deputy role? That's not sustainable. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Yeah, not that many. But two other hats. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: It's just not sustainable. We need folks, butts in seats on this stuff 24/7. I mean I appreciate your leadership and your passion, but we need you to help the director run the department. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Yeah, I agree. And we're recruiting but, you know, when people leave there's going to be a vacuum there, so someone has to step in. So yeah, definitely, we're recruiting. We're having HR (Department of Human Resources) fast track. DHR is helping us do that recruitment process. So yeah, definitely, we want to get people on board for sure. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: You know, and staying on the waste diversion piece, where are we with the composting contract with HER (Hawaiian Earth Recycling)? It's been years. MR. MANSOUR: Currently, actually we have been successful in meeting monthly with HER. They have a few general management position changes, they went through a turnover, and hopefully now the person on board could lead that meeting. But definitely, we have been meeting with them monthly. As far as the recruitment, it goes back to my initial statement, we are one link within the entire intertwined links. Definitely, we need to work with the Human Resource Department, our Human Resources to start the recruitment. And as you know, some of these positions, they've been open for a long time. It's just hard to fill these positions. In the meantime, the train is not going to stop. We are moving forward. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Director, you might want to consider taking another look at these position descriptions and requirements, and seeing if there are ways to build capacity with existing staff. I just think that we can be a little bit more creative here. I have more questions, obviously, but I heard the bell. So I'm going to yield at this time. Thank you, Chair. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Looking around the room here, do I have any questions? I can see thank you, Matt. You have your light on. Page 9 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I do, I do, Mr. Richards. Thank you. Okay, thank you, Chair. Thank you for the presentation and mahalo you both for being here today. This is a very important issue to our community island-wide. Over the past three-four months, we've seen trailer bans, we've seen closing transfer stations, and Ashley nailed it by saying, we are seeing less services. And the community is noticing, and it's not working. I do appreciate what you offered today as far as why, how we're making it better. But reality is, it's gotten worse than I've ever seen it. And what I'm seeing in Puna is a lot of illegal dumping, transfer stations being piled in the front with garbage. We're still having to staff to make sure people don't dump their rubbish in front of the transfer station gates. I've heard different things from members in the community who've talked to the staff. I would like to take a minute to say mahalo to all of our staff at the transfer stations. I think they do a tremendous job and they deal with everyone's garbage and it's not probably the most ideal situation during a pandemic. But they do a great job and I just want to recognize that. We do live in a disposable society. I've been noticing that more and more. I don't know why it's been so apparent lately but everything we buy is in to-go cups and our amount of rubbish is impressive per household. I think that we severely underestimate how much household each is making per ton,per year. We have very finite resources here. You know, we're an island so we have to do better. There is not a"maybe we can," it's "we have to." This past fiscal year when we set the budget, DEM's budget was increased I want to say by six to ten percent. I may be wrong. If I am, please correct me. And it was with the hopes that we would see some changes and there was a lot of discussion about how bad the facilities were. We are—across the board we're seen a lot less expenses this year due to COVID. But in regards to DEM, we're seeing less services being offered. And it's a head scratcher. We're talking about recycling. If I remember correctly, we have about six positions for recycling specialists within the Department of Environmental Management. That's a lot of positions for as much as we offer recycling. We've offered less recycling since I've come into office. And I understand the reasons that are given, but it doesn't it make the situation better. Kalapana Transfer Station, they're asking for more days. I've asked very nicely. Two days a week would be wonderful. They're only getting one day a week. The community has asked multiple times for increases in Kalapana. Page 10 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 Finally, AV (Abandoned Vehicle) towing. The police have to visit the vehicle, DEM has to visit the vehicle, and then we pay for a tow if it's on a public right of way. Understandably, we're offering two free tows. But the person using that service still has to pay for that tow which runs between $200 and $600 per vehicle to have it towed to a transfer station. If you look at the back end of that, we're willing to pay the police to visit a vehicle, we're willing to pay DEM to visit the vehicle, and we're willing to pay the towing if it's on a right of way. So we're actually pushing people to dump their cars on private rights of way and public rights away so that the County will tow it for free. I think we need to switch our model and say we'll take the car for free because it saves us money on the backend. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Matt, can we interject? Because you have a whole bunch of comments and I forgot most of them. But we'll start with the last one just regarding the towing of vehicles. So we accept the vehicles at no charge for disposal. Two vehicles per year. The towing, if you are a random person that leaves your vehicle on the side of the road, we're going to track you down. We're going to track the VIN number down and you're going to get a bill for towing. It's not just if you drag a vehicle out to the public site, that you're going to get free towing by the County. That's not how it happens. Again, there's so much that you talked about. It's hard to revisit every single thing that you said. But I think there's some misconceptions on people at the transfer stations. We've gotten some complaints saying, "Hey, you have two people at the transfer stations diverting people away or weed-eating, why can't we have the transfer station open?" And our employees are not interchangeable. So if we have a SWFA (Solid Waste Facility Attendant)that came to work, but we don't have the trucking, you can't continue to have the rubbish filling up into the bins if we don't have a mode to get the rubbish hauled away. So we need a collection of people onsite to make this thing work. It's not something that's been overnight. The trailer ban, we'll talk about that next month. But we've only been here for seven-eight months now. That was something that was agreed to prior administration. And so we've been actively dealing with that in this administration. And so, you know, we'll entertain those conversations next week. But again, I've forgotten all that you've said, so maybe MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, I guess I could add to that. I guess I'm listening to you and listening to Kierkiewicz about trying to recycle, reduce,possibly have zero-waste, but you want more days for the transfer station. Well something is going to give, something's going to take. If we're going to have more days, Page 11 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 you're going to encourage more people to dump more waste. So the idea to have more days open with no limitation of amount of waste that comes in, no charges, it just—it's a live list. I'm sorry to say it, but we need to have controls. You know, if we're going to go toward recycling and zero-waste, we want to start acting that way rather than allowing the waste to come in with no restriction to it. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Can you guys speak to how much your budget increased this last fiscal year or the year that we're in right now, 2021-2022? MR. MANSOUR: I believe that you're right. Let me give you a little bit of history about the budget since I've been here. You're right, it went up about six or so percent for the additional staffing that were under the Recovery Act. So they were working there, Recovery Act was paying their wages. Now we continue with the same staffing and we pay their wages. Just to give you an idea, our budget has not had inflation adjustment in probably, I'd imagine, for the last five or more years, even more. So as we're looking into the budget and working with our Business Manager, some of these costs that we have seen annually it was not just for services. It was because we have legal obligation within our current contract to provide a consumer price index. So here we go. We pay these contacts the cost of living and sometimes it ranges $500,000 to $800,000 for these contracts. But yeah, we don't include inflation in our own budget. So what happens is, cost of living goes up, you hold inflation constant. You're going to have a gap. And what staff has been doing, offsetting that gap by eliminating services such as recycling. So definitely, that's the domino effect that's taken place. Hopefully, we could work with Finance and modify that moving forward. We cannot continue on the status quo not looking at inflation, because you create a delta, that delta is going to be deeper and deeper to come out of. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I hear you, I hear you. I understand where you guys are at, but the community expects a certain thing and they pay their property taxes, as was stated. And so the need for us on the backend to handle our garbage problem we have in our community is paramount, and we're back to having very finite resources. And we have to be creative. We don't have a choice. And I highly caution against moving towards the pay as you throw system which has been pushed from the very beginning. Because that, I think, although I see the funding opportunity there, I also see that it's going to increase some of our problems that we're seeing in our rural communities especially when we limit availability of services Page 12 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: A lot of these points I made todaysorry, Mr. Richards, I'll sum up. A lot of the points I made today are things I brought up before. I appreciate this opportunity to have this discussion today. I'm looking for some really clear movement on the Department of Environmental Management and specifically the Solid Waste Division. Thank you, Chair. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you. Do I have any other Council Members? Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thanks, Brenda, Ramzi, for being here. Yeah, you guys, it's not glamourous work at all, this division. I wanted to really focus on the cost of running, and I'm just picking the East Hawaii Transfer Station. And I wanted you guys to elaborate a little bit, because these number are all over the place. And I'm trying to figure out—I get operation divided by tonnage is how we get the cost per ton. But then we have days that are open that are different. I'm trying to understand the correlation. And Ramzi,just help me do the math here because you said these figures haven't been ever developed, it's something you folks have worked on for the last ten months, and we're at about 90 percent accuracy. Help me understand how we got these numbers. MR. MANSOUR: Definitely. We didn't include it because it takes a lot of detail. So we sat down with our accounting staff and the goal is to look at the costs of operating each station from staffing to equipment, to hauling, to utilities. So what you see in front of you is the annual operational cost, and it's based on each individual station with the amount of staff and the vehicles and utilities and what have you that goes into that cost. And then what you do is you take that cost and also you calculate the amount of tonnage that goes to each station. So if you have X amount of tonnage based on your actual operational cost per transfer station, that will give you the cost per ton, per each individual transfer station. As far as the reload, and remember all these on the east side, each transfer station ends up hauling their waste to the reload. So now the reload becomes the center of all the east side transfer stations, as Brenda has shown on the slides. Then you have a cost to transfer the same tonnage that we collected all the way to the west side at a cost of$43 per ton,just to transport from the east to the west. That $43, you need to take it and add it to every ton that's being added. On this one it has not been added. That's why we are working to make sure our County understands what we're targeting. Unfortunately, there was no record of—you know, they Page 13 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 didn't have the records to get it together. So it took some time for them to go back and regenerate the data that we need to understand the business. MS. LEE LOY: Okay, that made me—my hands and feet are sweaty right now because it's like we're touching the trash twice. MR. MANSOUR: More than twice, sometimes three times. And then when it goes there, it goes to the landfill, then the (inaudible) charges about$55 to $60 a ton just to process in addition to the cost that you see on this list. And the reason I was talking about the ten percent is because now we need to look at the actual cost to run our business; from picking up the waste at the transfer station to burying the waste at the landfill. And I think we're getting close to about$250 a ton, close to that. This is more than double what we charge on the tipping fees of $114 a ton. So technically, Councilman Kleinfelder mentioned that, yes, our people use a lot of garbage. They generate a lot of garbage. We need to go through the public education; reduce, reuse, recycle. We have to, because there's no accountability in the system. As a government, we're coming in, we're taking, instead of providing the police services, the Fire Department services, we literally collecting every human's waste and handle it three to four times before we bury it, at almost zero cost. This is unacceptable. I've been in this business for over 35 years and I've never seen such a business model that exists. We need to have the political will to make a stand where we need to hold people accountable to their own waste. You generate 100 pounds, you're going to pay for 100 pounds. You generate ten pounds, you're going to pay for ten pounds. But to continue to keep claiming it's in the taxes, the taxes doesn't even cover one trip of forwarding that waste to a reload center. So we need to rethink. We need to change the paradigm, we need a paradigm change. That's really what we need. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you for that because just that explanation alone tells me the business model you guys have is broken. It's broke. I'll say it again, it's broke. And now's the time, as Ms. Kierkiewicz is saying—and I understand, the staffing requirements, and the union contracts, and all these other hard corners that you guys have MR. MANSOUR: I mean, if people want to continue with the current business model, they need to pay about$240 a ton to be able just to break even. That's without actually doing the recycling. So technically, you know, I think the last meeting we had, Council Member Kleinfelder mentioned about the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency), kind of estimated about 4.5 tons per house. Page 14 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 So if people generate 4.5 tons per house times $240, we should be taxing every house about $1,000 a year. That's about $100 a month. And that's where we need to be. So if that's the model we need, we need to start charging $100 a month, and we need your support. MS. LEE LOY: I want to walk around to the Solid Waste Management Plan. And I've read it, I've been around twice now since they've developed the Solid Waste Management Plan and then redid it. But I was comparing that to our Mass Transit Master Plan and there was a funding mechanism. So as we rolled out our Mass Transit Master Plan it was done in a very systematic way because we backfilled with the GE (General Excise), and I was just wondering if the Solid Waste Management Plan had that resource as far as funding and/or cost analysis so that as we move through some of these objectives in our Solid Waste Management Plan, that we can systematically move through providing the right resources. MR. MANSOUR: Definitely. I think we had made a request. And I think our Environmental Management Commission, I believe, sent a letter requesting the funding of, you know, a consultant that comes in and do such a study. I personally believe that we need to. There's so many items that we need to bring to your attention through a third party that could present it and give you multiple options of how to move forward. There are consultants that do this for a living. I've dealt with them and it has a positive impact. But it goes again, we cannot send a message that, yeah, open seven days a week, 24-hours, because people are generating more waste. That kind of defeats the purpose. If we need to go towards, you know, reduce, reuse, recycle, we need to start thinking differently. MS. LEE LOY: I have just two more questions. And again,just focusing on the East Hawaii Transfer Stations. You have Volcano, Pahoa, Kalapana, Glenwood, Honomu, Papa`ikou, Kea`au, and Hilo. And Volcano, Kalapana, Glenwood, Honomu, Papa`ikou, those are either one or three days a week. Are those trucks coming back to the reload facility full? MR. MANSOUR: Some of these sites, because the amount of tonnage is so low, the trailers probably get picked up every other day until it gets to a certain level. That's why we cannot have it every day. Because we're going to be driving empty trailers. I mean, you cannot have the bottom line is we cannot have a transfer station at each corner. You know, some of these, if you look from the distances, they're about eight to ten miles away. Why can't we tell the public you can drive ten miles away? It's costing us $177 a ton. So the idea is, you know, we need to think, is it about convenience? Well if it's a luxury and convenience, Page 15 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 somebody is going to pay for it, because definitely we don't have the funds to pay for it. So, you know, like I said, we need paradigm change. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. You know, Director, when you came before us during the budget cycle and presented your budget, it was at the end of a very long day. And I had asked the question if we had to grade the department, what letter grade did you give it, and at that time, it was an "F." So I'm going to ask you that question again, ten months in, what letter grade are we at? MR. MANSOUR: That question you had given me was for the Wastewater. We have done improvements on the Wastewater and I think I'll be coming before you and present some of the improvements that we started in the Wastewater. As far as the Solid Waste, it's really, we're looking, and I'm digging deep into it because I really need to understand the cost of my operation. I cannot make a decision without understanding. It's 101 Business. I was flabbergasted that when I first started going around and asking, nobody has any idea. But now we are established in that, and we're going to set that as a benchmark as we move forward. Things hopefully will change for the better. But my obligation is to bring to the Mayor's and your Administration the actual being transparent, telling you the actual cost of running Solid Waste, so we can budget accordingly and we could up policies and procedures that could support us moving forward. So as far as the "F" for the Wastewater, I think we're improving. As far as the Solid Waste, we're about a"C," currently. But we could do better. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Director. Chair, I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Council Woman. Mr. Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you. You know, I think we kind of hear the frustration across all of my colleagues who shared so far. And I hear and understand where you're coming from when it comes to the financial aspect of this; getting a good understanding of where we are, what it costs us, so that moving forward we can budget correctly. I keep hearing a paradigm shift or a political will. Your department, you two are charged with leading this department and in my opinion, giving us the best advice as to how we should be managing our operations. We're coming up on ten months since this term has started and being that it seems you've identified, you're starting to identify the financial aspects of it, when do you expect that we'll get solutions that are more concrete beyond the three bullet points that were provided in this slideshow today? Page 16 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 MR. MANSOUR: Hopefully we could go for—we need to look at the current budget and see if we could set aside funding to get the third party, put an RFP (Request for Proposal) out that could analyze the system and come back with possible financial options that you guys could analyze and look at and feel comfortable with. Because definitely if the current business model, which you all want to keep, is going to be an expensive one if we're not going to modify it. And it's going to require, like I had mentioned, almost $1,000 per house. So if we're going to change, paradigm change, and change the analysis and set up a different system that requires a total analysis by consultants that they specialize in legislation, specialize into environmental analysis when it comes to solid waste. MR. INABA: Okay. And I think we're kind of going in circles here because I'm not sure that everyone on this Council agrees as to whether we want a no-pay or pay to throw. I don't know where everybody stands on that issue here. And I don't think anyone's stuck on a certain perspective. What we're not getting, however, is some kind of articulation of a potential solution that is solid. So we're kind of dancing around. We know the public's mad that we have closures of facilities. We know that some of those circumstances were outside of your control. But it seems like this conversation we're having today is just this back and forth. And until we can get some kind of solid recommendation from you folks, I'm not sure that we're really making any progress here because there is no political will to be had when there's no potential solution being offered to this body. So I think it would be helpful, if that means that we need to get a study done, then let's get it done real quick, because without that it seems that we don't have the information needed to make an informed decision. But we're kind of in this stuck place. So I hear where you're coming from, Director. And I don't have anything further to say except we need some kind of forward movement. And I know you've made some traction already but we need even more moving forward. So that's all I have. Chair, thank you. MR. MANSOUR: Right. In addition to that,just to let you know, we are working with theI think I believe, the Finance Department is looking at the legal possibility of doing the enterprise fund, doing it as a fee instead of taxes. So other departments are, you know, since we met last time, and we've been talking to our Finance Department definitely because they are the Finance Department, they are in charge of the financing. So they're looking at the option of the enterprise fund as far as fees, the legal maneuvering on the legal aspect of putting it as a fee on the tax bill rather than as taxes. All these questions takes different types of expertise to answer it. Page 17 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 But definitely, it's being vetted out. And we've been asking for responses of what are the options from a legal point of view, from a finance point of view, so we could start putting that business plan together and present it. So things are working. Unfortunately, not as fast as I want it because it takes away from my control and authorities. So I'm under the mercy of others. But all we can do is keep pushing forward. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. And thank you, Director and Deputy, for being here today. I just have some clarifying questions. I'm glad Ms. Lee Loy brought up the vast differences in the cost per each of the transfer stations. Clearly, there's not a link per say to the days that it's open. If you were to just aggregate that cost per transfer station, is there a particular think that you could point to that would result in that variability? MR. MANSOUR: I think some of the details as far as different stations may have different tonnage, different bins that take recyclables, the green. And that's why we looked at it individual stations, one by one. And that's why some of the costs you've seen vary. You're not going to see, you know,the same cost because it's just the size, the amount of tonnage, the staffing, what it takes and MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: You know, it makes a difference if we have to touch that rubbish more than once. It adds to the cost of the transportation as well as the remoteness of the site. Those things all contribute to the cost factors. MR. MANSOUR: So definitely, the fartherI totally understand for a decentralized area we have to provide a station. We're looking at Wai`ohinu for example, that maybe could become a reload for that side of the island, you know, and treat it like the east side. Because unfortunately we don't have a landfill, so what you saw in that structure is the landfill on the east side. But it's a daily landfill. It takes up to 250 tons. And unfortunately, that's going to get on the highway and travel for four to five trips, round trips, to ten trips pretty much. So yes, I mean, the more you handle the waste, the more it's going to cost you. MS. KIMBALL: So I think what would be helpful in terms of problem solving from our end is to actually have that desegregated cost data so that we can look at where's the most—where are the places of leverage within the full cycle of the waste to look at those costs. The approximately $250 per ton that you come to when you add the other fees on that are here, how does that compare with other places that have transfer station models? Page 18 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 MR. MANSOUR: Usually the standard cost per ton, definitely, you want to stay in the $50 per ton, less than $100 per ton. That's become standard. But when you go above the $100 to the raise of$200-$300, this is kind of unheard of in my experience. MS. KIMBALL: So we're paying as much as five times of what typically would be paid, understanding of course that there's all sorts of costs being associated as an island in the middle of the pacific. What would you attribute that vast difference to, in the cost per ton? MR. MANSOUR: It's just the decentralized—it's the distance between each area. It's you're dealing with the travel time and that's what makes it so challenging. I think it's just the double, triple handling, the distance that you have to drive your waste and handle it. Because literally it's not centralized, it's decentralized. And when you deal with it, that's where the challenges come in from a cost point of view. MS. KIMBALL: So is there any effort to explore options that would allow us to decentralize and actually move away from this model of taking all the waste to and I realize that could get us into some controversial discussions about waste energy or, you know, other things. But is that being explored at all by the department? MR. MANSOUR: We are working with R and D (Research and Development) Department into—actually we gave them a list of all of our vehicle and the mileage and the trips and we're looking at extracting possibly the hydrogen from our landfill and do hydrogen-driven equipment. So all that is being worked. I mean, believe me, we have not shoved this aside. We've been working on it since we took office. The idea is to find solutions and try to figure out what's the best solution. So definitely, there's energy consultants looking at it as we speak, and utilizing the hydrogen and, you know, trying to cut costs. I mean, if you look at just reload, you're looking at $43 a ton just to transport it. That dollar figure originally is what other entities usually charge per ton to bury the waste. MS. KIMBALL: How many open positions do you have at this time in the division? MR. MANSOUR: Total we have three Equipment Operator we're recruiting for. We have the Division Chief. We have the Recycling Coordinator. We have Page 19 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: We have an HR Tech, a couple of Accountant positions, recently retired or transferred, Asset Manager,just recently transferred out. So that's just within our close net pocket. MR. MANSOUR: That's without the wastewater. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, I'm just asking for Solid Waste. And what about Ms. Kierkiewicz's recommendation to evaluate some of those position descriptions to make sure there's a little bit more flexibility. Is that something that you guys are doing with HR? MR. MANSOUR: I'll caution you about this. I mean, sometimes we're trying to, you know, you change the description, but you may not get the expertise you need and you're going to have pretty much somebody that is not going to be able to deliver. Unfortunately, it's not the idea just to go and hire a body in that position. We need to have the right body. MS. KIMBALL: And then finally, the estimate of four to five tons per household, per year. Again, kind of looking at our metrics versus other places, is that a pretty typical level of production per household? MR. MANSOUR: Usually per household, different, because they're not funded by the General Fund, subsidized by the General Fund. Most of other entities are through enterprise funds or user fees. Unfortunately, here it comes as a percentage from the General Fund and it's not dedicated to this solid waste services. So it's not controlled. So you'll be limited to what you could provide and not provide, because those other priorities would take priority then. For example, the solid waste, you get the Fire, the Police, and others. But definitely, Solid Waste needs to be, and I said it from day one. I remember during my interview, and when I came in I said, "We need to have the enterprise fund, we cannot sustain being under the mercy of general fund." Because we're not going to get that attention that you guys want. Nobody's going to get that attention. And you're going to have closures, you're going to have other obstacles in the way because you don't have control over the funding. I mean, Brenda said it, we got the reload center filled up to the roof. You know, we've got staffing issues, union issues, and we've got a cease and desist. It's public health and safety. And once you act you get a cease and desist for acting. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, I certainly understand the challenges as you've expressed them. And just for the record, you know, I do certainly have concerns like Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder had about tipping fees and possibility that Page 20 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 might result in dumping in gulches and in the back woods and things like that, which already does happen on days that the transfer stations are closed. I'm sure this is just the first of many discussions about the funding issue and the cost issue MR. MANSOUR: Unfortunately, we cannot change human behavior. I don't see why people, I mean, we need to hold people accountable. We have County laws and procedures MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, I know my colleagues have a lot to say and I don't want to go too far down MR. MANSOUR: Sure. MS. KIMBALL: Because that's a sticky wicket, right? MR. MANSOUR: Right. MS. KIMBALL: It's nearly impossible to change behavior especially when it's so deeply engrained. And we can't, even when it comes to recycling, we can't just rely on individuals making better choices about their waste. I hate to say it, but as much as we think we want that to happen and we want to see people reducing their waste, it's just easier to buy that carton of yogurt in the little packs that you can throw away individually. I mean, if we invest too much time talking about human behavior, we are just banging our head against the wall MR. MANSOUR: Well the idea is we dealt all over the country deals with illegal dumping. What you do is you find these people that create the illegal dumping so they can learn not to do it again. MS. KIMBALL: We know—yeah, I think there's a lot of legislative avenues for us to take. I look forward to exploring them with you and your department. It's going to be a series of nudges here and there, but I think we want to be careful about talking about we just need people to do the right thing. As much as all of us have in our hearts the desire to do the right thing, sometimes we make choices that are just simple and easy because we're running late. So thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms. Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: First off, thank you for being here and putting this together. And as much as it may not contain all the information that some of my colleagues Page 21 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 here are asking for, it is a step in the right direction. We are at a pivotal time. We are a microcosm of the planet at large, and if we can't make the changes that are necessary and more efficiently and effectively managed our waste, we're screwed as a planet. So I think that this is actually, as tragic as it is and as frustrating, this is a wake-up call to all of us as we all are being forced to be more responsible for our waste. We can't afford as humanity to continue to operate in the ways that we have been. I'm grateful for this administration's having started out with a sustainability summit and one of the topics was circular economy. And this transition from just throwing things away because there is no away, into how do we repurpose. Unfortunately, it takes times of often crisis and whether or not that's economic crisis because we can't afford to continue doing things the way that we've been doing them, there is a silver lining in that because it will force us into transitioning our practices. Everybody can see how ludicrous that we are hauling garbage around this island, an island that can fit all the other islands on top of it, and we don't have a solution yet. But we must get there. The poor behaviors of those that are dumping in areas that should not be dumped in is reprehensible and inexcusable. There is no reason to dump a refrigerator in a gully. It's an indication of ignorance and selfishness and it's unacceptable, for myself and anyone else. It's not uncommon in areas of—for lack of access to other means of dumping. But please people, we can't be expecting everyone else to make up for what we are not doing ourselves. I see just rampant comments on social media blaming the Department of Environmental Management for closures of landfills and that being, and somehow to blame for somebody dumping their mattresses and home goods on the side of the road in a green space. I can't imagine a circumstance where getting rid of a mattress or other home goods is so imperative that you can't wait until there's another opportunity for dumping that. So I am hopeful. I know your hands are tied in so many ways. The Konno decision is something that has been thorn in our side. I am excited to participate in some conversations with colleagues and those who want to get dirty, and who want to dig in to how do we make these changes. Everyone wants to make sure people are making a living wage, and we're taking care of our union workers and our County employees. But there does come a risk reward and I don't know where that line will be but we have to figure out a way to circumnavigate these blockages because it's not working. I also have a question because in this last term there were conversations when Mr. Kucharski was working here. And they were looking back at the contract with the current Solid Waste Management company that had no expiration date. Page 22 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 And I'm wondering if you could provide a quick update, because not only was that super concerning, but I had heard in the wind that some of the price points associated with that were not really equitable for it to be what they would be charging. I know that trash is a real tricky trickster. But do you have any updates on that? MR. MANSOUR: Yes. This is one of the challenges that Brenda has talked about,the current contract, which a legal obligation. It is in the contract, unfortunately, it's signed forever. As long as you're landfilling MS. VILLEGAS: They weren't able to go back and look at that and edit it? MR. MANSOUR: We are in continuous communication with them. We set up monthly meetings. We have given them our checklist of things we'd like to see changed. That's continuing. So there is a progress possibly changing some of the terms for post closures. For example, we're paying them to close the landfill in 150 years from now. So we're tying our today's dollar and giving it to them for 150 years from now to do the closure for us. And after the closure they have to maintain it for 30 years. MS. VILLEGAS: I mean is it just me or is that ludicrous? MR. MANSOUR: I cannot speak to the past. I don't know MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: And that's what we're working on now. I'm sitting in on those meetings. We have special counsel that's involved along with our Corporation Counsel. Yeah, this is the hand we were dealt with. It doesn't make any sense. But we're working on an amendment right now to get out of that and say, "Listen, we'll save our own money,"because at the end of the day, we're going to be here. The County of Hawaii is going to be here. We're going to be responsible for closing it and we don't know if this management company is going to be here 150 years from now. We thought the plantation was going to be here forever and we know how things work MS. VILLEGAS: At this rate, we'll all be under water. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Yeah. So we're working on amendments to be in the positive of the County. But yeah, we were dealt some sour pills to swallow and we're trying to get through amending some of those. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Thank you for that brief update. And my apologies. It's like being asked to do a job and having your hands tied. So we talked at Page 23 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 length in the last ten months about a number of different ideas and ways to move forward. And, you know, we're not there, obviously. And we've got a long ways to go, but I look forward to continuing to work with you and identifying ideally energy saving performance contract opportunities and waste transitioning, and just, you know, trying to perpetuate or actually begin a road back to a more circular economy. So thank you for your continued support and diligence in a job that is dirty and not often given the amount of respect and gratitude it deserves. So please give your crew our mahalos as well. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Thank you. MR. MANSOUR: Thank you so much. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Thank you. Thanks, Brenda and Ramzi, for coming here. You know, we're running kind of late so I just have one question. And I think it just requires a"yes" or a"no" answer and we'll leave it at that. If the answer is "yes," then we can have a further discussion, but some other time. MR. MANSOUR: So you're telling me what to answer. MR. CHUNG: And I think what I'm going to ask really falls within the parameters of what's, you know, what this agenda item calls for. Has your department or administration given any serious thought to waste to energy? MR. MANSOUR: Yes. MR. CHUNG: Okay, that's all. Thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Mr. Chung, you are a man of few words, but to the point. I appreciate that. Okay, looking around the room, Ms. Kierkiewicz, did you have another? Matt, did you have another? We are running late and I would ask that we keep our comments brief as we're going to try staying on schedule for our 1:00 p.m. committee meeting. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I just had a couple more questions if I might. Thank you. Brenda, Ramzi, thank you for this presentation. You know, I think transparency, public education, community engagement, it's all a work in progress. And so I appreciate you coming to us hat in hand and really sharing all of your challenges and where you hope to go. You know, I'm with my colleagues here in wanting to see you crunch the numbers a bit more and come up with some Page 24 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 sort of business plan that has a suite of options for us to choose from, and in a way in which we can get more public engagement. I want to invite you back to this committee in a few months and report to us ways in which you are prioritizing action as it relates to the Integrated Solid Waste Management Plan. I hope that doable. You know, a follow up question I had was related to the funding piece. You mentioned the WIFIA (Wastewater Infrastructure Finance and Innovation Act) money. My understanding is that is a loan and that's for water infrastructure. I'm wondering if there has been any work to secure funds to specifically support activities for the Solid Waste Division. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Yes. We have ongoing projects with Solid Waste, USDA Rural Development, open application begins in October for solid waste grant opportunity. A lot of our grants that we have are EDA (Economic Development Administration) grants and SRF (State Revolving Fund) loan repayments that are funneling through the system. But again, we would love to spend a lot more time on that, but with the limited amount of people that does take a lot of energy. And so we're working with rural R and D. They've been helping facilitating some of those looks to get some more monies into the pot for sure. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I also want to just offer up that you have an incredibly capable commission. I know a number of those folks personally and they want to do more. They want to be able to sink their teeth into helping you move on aspects of this management plan forward. So do lean on them in addition to coordinating some of these grant applications with R and D. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Thank you. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Chair, I really appreciate the latitude and the ability to have the discussion. It's not sexy, it's not glamourous, but you know, a lot of aloha and mahalo to the boots on the ground,the folks that are ensuring that we're able to have this really critical public service. I've visited the transfer stations, the landfills, it's heartbreaking to witness this. And it certainly motivated me and my family in the actions that we take. And so again,just really encouraging this department to continuously educate the Council and the community along the way. Thank you. I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. I'm looking for a quick round. I think we've had a pretty spirited conversation here. Thank you, Director, Deputy, for coming in. Just a couple of quick comments. Page 25 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Chair Richards? CHR. RICHARDS: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I had just one follow up comment to make, or not a comment, but a question for the Director. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, go ahead real quick please. We want to wrap this up. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, sir. Looking over the numbers from the cost to run East Hawai`i transfer stations in the document that was provided, and wanting to understand that this is the amounts from each transfer station to deliver the tonnage to the West Hawaii facility, is that correct? MR. MANSOUR: That's incorrect. What you see on the east side is just the cost to deliver it from the transfer station to the reload facility. And then at the bottom of that chart it shows the reload facility of$43 per ton. So that needs to be added to each other cost per ton. So we need to modify that Excel sheet that you have. But like I said, we have got 10 percent to clean it up, modify it, and have our accounting rearrange some of the numbers. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So the costs here are to transfer the tonnage to the East Hawaii reload facility? MR. MANSOUR: That's correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And then should Volcano through Hilo then equal up to what's coming into the reload facility? MR. MANSOUR: Well, like I said, these—yes, they come to the transfer station individually. If you looked at the slide where we have the routes, because each chute gets hooked up to a truck and that truck gets driven to the reload. So each individual transfer station have their own mileage to that reload. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So the tonnage for all the smaller transfer stations should equal up to the reload facility? MR. MANSOUR: They do go to the reload facilities. If you're asking the question should they go to the West Sanitary Landfill? That's what we're doing on the north side, south side. But the whole reason for the reload facility is to collect the tonnage coming from the other side. It's going to be definitely maybe Page 26 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 a shorter distance and that's something we can look into—doing a direct haul from these transfer stations to the landfill. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm sorry, I think we're misunderstanding each other. I'm just trying to understand this spreadsheet. But it sounds like the spreadsheet is a little bit misleading, if I can say that, because these aren't the numbers delivered to the West Hawaii Sanitary Landfill, only the reload number on the bottom, correct? MR. MANSOUR: No, no. What we're doing here is we're trying to understand the cost per transfer station for each region. So when you have—we have the annual cost per ton delivered to the West Sanitary Landfill once you add the $43 at the bottom of it. That's what I'm trying to bring to your attention because it has its own unit. So you look at each transfer station, have a dollar figure. But the transfer to the west landfill at $43 per ton, that will be added to each site. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Matt, I understand what you're saying. We'll work on the spreadsheet so it's apples to apples on each page. And so we'll work on that. We just wanted to get something in your hands and we were working on this till 11:30 a.m., you know, right before our deadline yesterday to get it in to you. So I understand what you're saying. We need to be apples to apples on each of those spreadsheets. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Thank you for that. MR. MANSOUR: Matt, in addition to that the reason our accounting has shorted on the bottom is just to show you the cost to transfer from east to west just on the five trucks, you know,just from reload to the landfill. Because we used to have a landfill on the east side, but now just the cost of transferring the waste by itself from east to west, it comes at a high dollar figure. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Appreciate the latitude, Chair. I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. So wrapping this up. Director, Deputy, thank you very much. Appreciate you being here. A little bit easier to talk if we don't have this stuff in front of us. Couple of things. Ramzi, you and I have discussed this and this has been coming in. I appreciate the fact that Ms. Kierkiewicz brought it back before the Council to put it forth. I also appreciate the fact that you're putting numbers to something in a more articulate way. I think we, as a Council, need to remember we shut down the Hilo side Page 27 RAWEEMC-9 September 21,2021 Solid Waste Dump and we've added a whole new level of costs to what we're doing. You and I have talked about, and actually Brenda as well, the conversations of end of life for a lot of this stuff coming in and what do we do about that. I think, Ms. Villegas, to your point—we have to look at the long game on this and I think that's what we're trying to do. We've also talked about the pay to play today which is essentially what we are talking about. If we are going to handle our waste correctly and appropriately, there is a cost assigned to that. So that's what we're going to have to do. And we as a Council have to recognize we're going to have to support Environmental Management. This isn't an "Ah-ha" moment. This is something you're reinforcing what you brought forth earlier and I'm very mindful of that. I think those numbers you're probably developing right now, and to Mr. Inaba's point, we're starting to get into budget season for next year. And so you're looking at your budget. So we as a Council have to embrace the fact that because of this extra hauling, et cetera, it's going to cost more. So what are we going to do about that? And I think we have to actually talk about that,pay to play, however you want to assign that. We know how much it costs to run Environmental Management, so we're going to have to figure out how we're going to fund that running of Environmental Management. That's the long and the short of it. So I do look forward to the further conversations about that. I'll contact you later about some of these cost per tons, because I'm curious how these are calculated and we're not going to waste Council time for that right now. But I do appreciate that coming forward,that we do have to have the shift, we have to have the paradigm change, if we're going to manage our waste stream coming forward. We're going to have to talk about end of life and we have to have some new ideas like Mr. Chung just brought up. So with that, we have a motion to close file before us. All signify by saying "aye." Vote on Comm. 378: The motion to close file on Comm. 378 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Council Members Chung, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Richards –8. Noes: None. Absent: Council Member David– 1. Excused: None. Page 28 RAWEEMC-9 September 21, 2021 ORDER OF The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the nest order-of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. (There were none.) RILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the nest order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. (There were none.) ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 1:00 p.m., Mr. Inaba moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by lis. Lee Loy and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Council Members Chung, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Richards — S. Does: hone. Absent: Council Member David— 1. Excused: hone. CHR. RICHARDS: We stand adjourned. Approved: r. � G T 1 1 2021 Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, 111, Chair (Date) Regenerative Agriculture, Water, Energy and Environmental Management Committee HRIt1 Pave 29