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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN RAWEEMC 2021/10/05 2020-2022Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, Energy, And Environmental Management 1Oth Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawai i October 5, 2021 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, ORDER: Energy and Environmental Management was called to order at 2:27 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Vice Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Vice Chair Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member (came in later) Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member Absent & Excused: Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. (There were none.) ACTING CHR. HOLEKA: Communication 402, please. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 402: REQUESTS AN UPDATE FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT REGARDING THE PROHIBITION OF TRAILERS AT COUNTY WASTE STATIONS From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated September 17, 2021. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to close file on Comm. 402. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. ACTING CHR. HOLEKA: Ms. Kierkiewicz. RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. And mahalo nui, Director, Deputy, and team for being here today. You know, over the last few months we've had conversations about the myriad of challenges your department faces, but also the opportunities, right, that we have to leverage course correctings of that nature. And one of the things that we have been talking about, and I know you folks have been actively looking at and working on, is a revisit of the trailer ban. I know that Deputy Iokepa-Mosses has talked to me at least about ways in which we can refine this, so that we are being really creative about how we may potentially allow this at transfer stations. Because outright ban of it, just doesn't seem feasible for our island. We have a lot of folks that coordinate community trash pickup, that needs trailers to haul that to the transfer stations. There's also a number of folks in communities that pick up trash, for kupuna. And this is one of those way's that they're able to be really efficient with their haul. So just really trying to understand. Over the last few months, what are you guys thinking of? I know that Deputy needed a little bit more time to look at some creative solutions, potentially looking at certain days, hours, designated chutes, for our trailers. So I'm just wondering what sort of progress has been made, because at the end of the day it's within your power, your wheelhouse to update these rules Director. Thank you. (Note: At this time, Environmental Management Director Ramzi Mansour, Deputy Director Brenda Iokepa-Mosses, and Safety and Driver Improvement Coordinator Steve Kalilikane Jr., came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. MANSOUR: Aloha, Vice Chair, Committee Members. Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Definitely this is probablyI have with me as you have introduced already my Deputy Brenda, and my Safety Officer for the department Steve here. And we also have Corporation Counsel Deputy Malia with us, and of course Betsy. It's mainly perfect timing now to talk about it, because we are in the process of doing the budget. So what we have been working on is looking at every possibility for all the 22 transfer stations. And really in visiting that issue again with our Safety Committee, definitely our sights are not designed to allow for trailers. Out of the 22 transfer stations, there's potential of five that we need to have logistical modifications and traffic controls that we could allow the three cubic yard trailers to be accessed to these facilities. And they are outlined in red lettering on the map that was submitted to you (see Comm. 402.1). Besides that, we're talking about major construction modification to the 22 transfer stations that we have. Unfortunately when they were designed, they were not designed for trailers. Page 2 RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 When everybody—you probably all know when Home Depot was selling the trailers for $300, people all over the island went and bought one. And they started hauling with their vehicle, cars instead of SUV or trucks. So they come to our site and they don't know how to maneuver these trailers in a car, literally our attendant they were asking our attendant, "Hey could you get into my car and reroute it for me." We cannot take that liability. Just the last two weeks I was driving around talking to attendants, and some of them definitely made it clear this size does not accommodate for it. Because they cannot even back up to the chute because of the vehicle, they don't know how to drive it or the trailer. So definitely our attendees, the SWFA (Solid Waste Facility Attendant) at our transfer stations, highly don't recommend them, because of that safety and they don't want to take that responsibility of getting into somebody else's car and try to maneuver the car for them. Therefore we cannot go back and allow trailers at our facilities, we just can't because of safety. Unless if you guys want we can entertain that, because of the budget season, we could evaluate the cost to modify the 22 transfer stations. And bring it to you, and add them in the budget. But it's not going to be cheap. But out of all 22, the Safety Committee believe these five could potentially accommodate the usage. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Sorry, Director, I don't seem to have a copy of that map? Could I have a copy and then may be if you could just thank you, Steve. May be just for the record you could highlight what those five are, because they seem to strategically be place around the island. They're in red yeah? Okay, so Waimea, Kealakehe, Wai`ohinu, Pahoa, and Hilo. And these are the five that could accommodate now? MR MANSOUR: It could accommodate now with minor modification. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Like what? MR. MANSOUR: Such as traffic control, one day a week not every day. And we have to designate a chute just for trailer, because we cannot allow for trailers to back up they have to come straight using the chute and drive out. So with that we have to lose a space for the residential users, the cars. So it has to be one day a week on Wednesdays, and allow trailers to use particular chutes within the site to accommodate for that straight drive in, rather than a straight drive in and back in. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So we're looking at paint on the grounds, signage, traffic cones— MR. MANSOUR: Signage, delineators, cones, possibly one personnel just to be able to redirect them. One staff member at these five sites. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Great, how quickly can you get this done? Page 3 RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 MR. MANSOUR: It's definitely going to take time, first we cannot move because we have to look at the Admin Rule. It has to be amended of course, because currently it reads that no trailers at all transfer stations. So I'll defer that to Corporation Counsel to answer the process and the timing. As far as if it requires staff, I was here September 21" presenting to you the challenges, and the priorities, and solution, one of them was the staffing. Especially currently and the COVID time it's going to be hard. We're talking at the end of the year, early next year. I mean you know, we're already in October. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Let's set a goal. Yeah, I mean let's set a goal to be done in the next 90 days with this. I think this is really great action that can be implemented at these five transfer stations. I know you guys can do it. MR. MANSOUR: But just to let you know, Wai`ohinu is under construction so it's not going to be within 90 days. Because I was at the site last week, I was meeting with the consultant and the contractor. And they want to make sure we can modify to make sure that it meets trailer, because we're spending quite a bit of money on that transfer station so it is going to accommodate trailers. But they're under construction, so construction to my understanding probably going to complete mid of next year for Wai`ohinu. But yeah, Ocean View, we're also in the process of designing the new location, and that also potentially may be added to the list down the road. So as we design we're going to keep that in mind, but unfortunately we cannot go back to the old one because it's different. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Malia if you could come forward and we can have it on the record. Thank you. I think we're just trying to understand the process right, the Administrative Rules. And the reason why is because I had a number of constituents reach out wanting to file a petition. But the petition is you know, according to the rules at the discretion for the Director to approve or deny. And so I don't want community efforts to fall flat, which is why we're having these discussions about what's doable. So just want clarity on the rules and what's a realistic timeframe. (Note: At this time, Deputy Corporation Counsel Malia Hall came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. HALL: I can basically speak to just the process which is you know, Hawaii Revised Statute Chapter 91. You have to give it at the minimum, 30 day notice of the amendment rule. So you have to get the full amended rule ready, however long that will take, and then basically post that for 30 days have a public hearing let all the public weigh in. You know, there could be amendments at that meeting, if the public has strong input either way. And then that would push the timeline out another 30 days. So it's a hard to give you a firm time, but yeah, I mean the basic is if we had the amendments ready to go 30 days posted they could be adopted somewhere around there. Page 4 RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: It doesn't seem that complicated, right? I mean you identified the five sites. MR. MANSOUR: Definitely it's not complicated. It's just the logistics aspect of things, we just want to make sure that we just follow the process. And definitely, I mean we already had identified the sites, and the goal and intent to move forward with these five out of the 22. Definitely we go down our do list and process it. As you know, currently our division is short, all of our Administrative area so we're in the process of recruiting. So hopefully within the next two months, we should be able to secure somebody within at least the Project Management level position. So two months, and you're looking at probably two months or so for Admin Rule change. That takes you like I said, probably early next year. Because we're in October already, tomorrow is 22. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Director, that's too slow. So sorry. I'm just wondering within the next couple of weeks, can we get Corporation Counsel based on this conversation to start writing some amended rules. And then putting it out, so that these rules are reviewed by the community over the next 30 days and adopted in November. MR. MANSOUR: But my understanding, you have to 30 days or 40 days to post? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thirty days. MR. MANSOUR: Thirty, so yeah. I mean you add all of these together, we'll give you that schedule. We need to look at MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I'd just like a critical path, right. Critical path where we're setting deadlines for ourselves and holding ourselves accountable to them. MR. MANSOUR: Sure. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. So couple weeks is doable, to get these amendments in order? Because I'm looking at we're at the fifth right now, next Council meeting is on 19d' MR. MANSOUR: Couple weeks, could you do that in couple of weeks? MS. HALL: I feel like 15 to 30 days is more realistic with my current work load, but I could there's a lot of other matters. But I could definitely try and get it with at least 30 days. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, I guess we'll have another conversation back here in 30 days, November 2nd, about reviewing some of these draft rules. Page 5 RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 MR. MANSOUR: Is that doable? I'll try. MS. HALL: We'll keep you updated. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Great, thank you. Whatever support you need. MR. MANSOUR: Just keep in mind, you know, we'll still go through other AOC (Administrative Order on Consents) and we only have one Deputy Counsel. So thank you Malia. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Chair, I yield for now. ACTING CHR. INABA: Mahalo. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm glad we're getting somewhere. You guys are great okay, but I'm just going to say, this don't make sense. This didn't make sense from the beginning, I understand it was a different Administration's Rule but I just cannot get pass this is common sense logic. Excuse me if I'm in doubt with some common sense here, but I mean if had trailers for like 30 years, 50 years, and all of sudden our facilities don't except the trailer and we need to put signs up and re -mark things and tell people they can't come in anymore. And I just can't wrap my head around it, it doesn't make sense to me. It's like trailers were invented three months ago, and all of sudden we found we have a problem. They've existed, people have used them, they have to pull them in out of their driveways to load them up. May be some people don't know how to drive them maybe they do. I thought about this and I asked this via email, how much data to you have on accidents, damage, and people being hurt by trailers at your facilities? MR. MANSOUR: Once again, I cannot speak to the past. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But do you have any information that guides us in knowing that trailers really are this animal that's going to hurt people when they go to the transfer stations, or damage our equipment like do we have any data that says that? MS. IOKEPA-MOSSES: I think just talking to—because when we came in the door this of course was adopted already. So we of course, we asked the same questions, right? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yup. MS. IOKEPA-MOSSES: Because I live in Ka`u so those are important things to have. And once it wasI mean two wrongs don't make a right, so just because it was allowed all these years and there was lots of near misses and lots of these Page 6 RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 incidents where it's not safe. When we came on board we said, "Okay let's get the safety committee," because we want to see some hard facts, some logistics instead of just near misses, or our safety attendants have brought concerns up. We don't want to wait till somebody gets crushed, before we say, "Okay, it's not safe." We want to be proactive in that measure, so that's why we had Steve DHR (Department of Human Resources) Specialist Safety Officer collaborate to give that first report. And then we had them—after I had communication with Ashley and urging to relook at this again, and try to come up with creative solution on the least minimal sites that could be safer to administrate. So we have Steve here he can like speak a little bit too about what they did. They went through the process, and a little bit about that. So if you would MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, that be great. Thank you, Brenda. MR. MANSOUR: In addition definitely it's a design issue, because the site itself. You're right population 30 years ago was in the same population as of today. So we have increase of usage that means more traffic. The queue line at each transfer station will double, or quadruple. But as Steve and the committee when they went there they actually took an actual trailer, and they tested it at each facility. Steve could speak to that. MR. KALILIKANE: Good afternoon. Yeah, so our task at hand in the very beginning, were to assess the transfer stations as far as the safety side. We pulled engineering designs, the site map plans, and all of those stations were created before the 90's before the 80's, so it wasn't created to accommodate trailers. So as far as the safety aspect, then the design wasn't built for it. Again, the population grew within these past few years like Ramzi said. Just based on that alone would be the recommendation we gave on the first letter. Now we can make accommodations. Of course there's finances involved, to accommodate trailers. So during the assessment we actually besides sitting down and doing the site map plan review, we actually took a trailer that could hold three cubic yards. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: What size trailer is that? Six by nine? MR. KALILIKANE: Yeah, about a six by nine. A regular Home Depot size trailer. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The longer one? Because get more than one size trailer, yeah. MR. KALILIKANE: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: People get truck beds, as a trailer. Page 7 RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 MR. KALILIKANE: Well the assessments were mainly done on the three, was it three or four cubic yards? MR. MANSOUR: Three cubic yards, because this is what our MR. KALILIKANE: So the Administrative Rules already said that the restriction was three cubic yards, so that's what we used to do the assessments on. And as we visited every single transfer station across of the island, we found that a lot them really weren't designed to accommodate trailers for people to spin around and back in. And we're talking about the average Joe, not trained professionals, not CDL (Commercial Driver Licensing) drivers, just the average Joe. It's a combination between both safety and convenience, but from the safety standpoint we can pretty much make anything you want safe. You tell us what you want, we can make it safe. It will come at a cost, and the time limit is behind that. The second time we were asked to go out, we were asked if we could at a minimum with minimum modifications to a station. If we could make accommodations to bring back some of those trailers, and that's the second time we went out. Those are the five stations that's in front of you today. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So just want to check the Administrative Rule that went out, I thought it allowed Hilo and Kealakehe. Am I wrong about that, trailers would be allowed at those two sites only? MR. MANSOUR: Was the Hilo reload, and the west side landfill. Not the Kealakehe transfer station, the landfill. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And that's still in place, yes? MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, landfill any time anybody want to take a trailer to the landfill they could. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It doesn't work for East Hawaii? MR .MANSOUR: Yes. Because this is the landfill it's designed for MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And the reload station in Hilo being the one back behind the scale station, yeah? MR. MANSOUR: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm right back to what I said in the beginning, I mean trailers worked through all these years. I understand you might have some safety concerns, I still have no document that says three people have been killed by trailers at transfer stations across the island. And one person has Page 8 RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 been critically injured, and four pieces of our equipment were banged. Because I don't think that it exists. MR. MANSOUR: Yeah. I hope we don't wait until somebody dies to do something. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Well I'm just saying we made a rule to make up for the safety part, now it's going cost us money to be more safe yet we have no documented anything that I've ever seen that says we had a problem. That's why I'm just going, common sense, it's worked for all these years, now we need to spend money to make it safe. I get what you're saying, but I just think its nonsense. I love you, but I mean it doesn't add up in my head. MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, the idea is not to spend money, the idea is just to bring it to your attention the current site does not work. We could still provide the service, but without the trailer. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: If we budgeted more manpower, signage, redesigning to bring in a trailer. MR. MANSOUR: Right. I mean people still have the service they need, like what they had back probably when the station was designed. But I don't know when the transition took place to trailers, like I said its prior administration. I don't know the logic but we confirmed it, and that's why we didn't take it and say okay, let's run with it we needed to confirm it. And that's why we had safety committee. It's not just Steve, could you tell us who was in your committee. MR. KALILIKANE: We also had Human Resources Health and Safety involved, we had a safety specialist, the head of safety himself was in on this too. Also our Risk Management Officer, from Finance was in with us too. MR. MANSOUR: So we have a handful of qualified safety people made the decision, and I think we ought to respect that and move forward with it. And just not look at the past. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I disagree, I disagree. MR. MANSOUR: I know. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I stood there from the beginning. That's where I stand. I'm still standing there. I appreciate this. I concur with Ms. Kierkiewicz, say sooner rather than later. This is not rocket science, you can adjust the Administrative new rule get it ready, get out for public comment, and get it done. A lot of people depend on this, the more rural areas really depend on this. People now transporting rubbish in the back of their vehicles, because they Page 9 RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 had a trailer and they can't use it anymore. And don't have access to another vehicle, or to a service or can't afford it, period. MR. MANSOUR: Our goal is not to make it hard for you, and the constituents. From day one when this came out, we told you we're going to think outside of the box and come to a solution. We're talking about possibly different day, but you know, once again safety controls. And I think with the option the safety committee has given us, I feel comfortable with these five sites. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I yield. Thank you, Chair. ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Ramzi, thank you. Brenda thank you, Steve. I want Malia though, to come back up, please. We're going to keep pounding on this just a little differently, and see if we can find a way through. Because what I'm hearing is it's not no, it's just not yet. And what we're saying over here is, not yet is still not quick enough. You know, I'm looking at the Administrative Rules and under 7.4, "All customers enter the facility at their own risk." Is there a way to utilize this provision in the Administrative Rules, and create a liability waiver, in which those—and it's right here "All customers entering the facility, enter at their own risk." Just breath for 10 more seconds before you answer that, because I think there's a way here with a liability waiver from those choosing to come. And I still think it's a great idea to start with the five, because the safety committee has elevated those five. And from what I can see, we're looking at the farthest distance travel is about 25 miles, right? So you're being very strategic, very smart about the choices. But now I'm kind of getting down in there, "Enters the facility at their own risk." Is there a way to use this part of the rule to create a liability waiver for those who want to dispose with trailers? MS. HALL: I would have to say, no. And I'll explain it by, if the county understands like we said we had the Safety Officers go out there, the Risk Management Officer go out there. If we understand that there is a safety risk and somebody does get hurt, then basically the liability waiver won't help us because we knew there was problem and we didn't fix it, right? So that's why it's always better to fix the safety concerns first, and then go out. Because whether they sign the paper or not, they're still going to come after the county, yeah. So in the interest of safety and what's best for the county, I would say that wouldn't work. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. So we have a sword and a shield, but we still have in the rule, right? They're coming at their own risk. So how we do defend against any claims of liability, when we already have in the rule that they're entering at their own risk. Page 10 RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 MS. HALL: Well as long as we're following our policies and procedures that are creating safety for not only the people coming in, but also for our employees, right? We want to keep them safe as well. Then that's how we create the safety net for the county, is we put in safe policies, and we follow those safe policies. There will be accidents and stuff as long as we're not negligent, or you know, act out of the scope of our description of our employment and stuff then we should be acting in the safest way possible. And not opening ourselves out to that extra liability. MS. LEE LOY: Well then I'll follow up Rule 7.5, "All customers shall adhere to all communications from Solid Waste personnel and or county contractors." So again, I think there's some verbal prompts here thatI'm just trying to—clearly waiting for the rule amendment process is going to take a long time. I understand the Chapter 91 process, the publication if they're altered, right? It takes a while, but I can actually see utilizing this Rule 7.4 and 7.5 as a way to create a variance process, an amnesty process, while the rules are being promulgated. Judge is standing up, she's not liking where this is going. Go ahead. (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. STRANCE: Thank you. Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. You are not going to hear from me or anybody in office say go ahead and do something unsafe. We have a safety there's been two safety assessments done of these transfer stations. They've come to the same result, it's not safe. You will not get an opinion, from my office that the county is going to get around it by putting up a sign "Come at your own risk." Because our transfer station is a public service, you know, you're not going to put up a sign on every single road in this county "Drive at your own risk." You're not going to put up a sign in the front door of this office, "Enter at your own risk." Because there might be a trip hazard. Department of Environmental Management has taken on two studies, and they're telling you it's not safe. So my office is not going to give you language, or try to fuss around with the rules to say it's okay to go into an unsafe situation. You folks have argued in this situation. Oh, we got kupuna that this is they're going to come and take their trash. Are you going really put up a sign and tell our kupuna come in and empty your trash at your own risk? I understand the frustration, but over time there are lots and lots of activities that as we learn more about them, we determine that they're unsafe. You know, 50 years ago we wouldn't have thought that a gang cesspool was unsafe, it's unsafe now. You know, the world is full—you know, we get more knowledge all of the time, and with that knowledge we are required to assess and act. Department of Environmental Management heard what you said, this is hard on some members of our community. They postponed an enactment of a safety rule to take another look at it, and they came back to you and they said it is still unsafe. Page 11 RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 There might be some steps that they can take to make certain sites safe. And they're willing to do it, if they're provided the budget to do it. But I don't often try to be very strident here, but you're brow beating a department head who's gone through two processes and come to the same result and they told you it's unsafe. And then now you're saying fast track a rule, when they have to do some assessments. Let them do their job, and provide a safe service to our community. You know, if there are some other alternatives that can be done in terms of, you know, other pickups or things like that, you know, then try to find partners in the community that might be able to help in the interim. But please do not come to a meeting and push a director to do something that he's told you is unsafe, and a second Administration that said that it's unsafe. I really implore you not to do that, you know, and that's part of hard decisions that have to be made. It's not a decision that people like to make, but it's the safe decision. And because it's a safe decision, it's the right decision. Unless you want to tell the community we're going to put you at risk. And then I'm going to tell you as your lawyer, now everybody is on record saying, "Oh, but we know it's unsafe we're going to try and put up a sign and just try to notify people. And then we're going to invite them in." You're inviting liability. ACTING CHR. INABA: Okay, Judge Strance, thank you. Do you have anything else, Ms. Lee Loy? MS. LEE LOY: I do. I still think there's stuff in the rules that we could get through this, while we go ahead and promulgate new rules. I hear Judge Strance loud and clear, sometimes we got to hit bottom to know exactly how to get up from it. But I do see some areas in here that lend itself to, you know, engaging other members in community to help with some of this. That's where I'm at. It just seems wonky to me. This is a very hard line that we're taking, and I understand completely. We don't want to put anybody at risk. But I also think there's a safe and mature way to get some of our needs for community served, which is what county's role and duties are is to serve community, while still allowing for maybe not trailers, but allowing for some of this to happen a little quicker. I think that's what I'm hearing from my colleagues, especially those in the rural community. And we have big challenges ahead, it always feels like we have to throw money at some of this stuff. And you know, earlier today we had an audit plan, talked about all the plans and we don't know how to plan financially for all of our departments when we're not seeing these two safety reports. That's where I'm at. I think there's some space in the rules, where we can figure out a way through. Chair, I yield. ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. And as we proceed with this discussion, please keep in mind what Judge Strance has shared, as you share your ideas. Ms. Kimball. Page 12 RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. And thank you, Director, and Deputy Director, Corp. Counsel, and Steve, for being here. I actually just have a quick request that Laupahoehoe be also considered. And the reason for that is over the next five years, we have four bridges between Laupahoehoe and Hilo that will be undergoing repair. I try to not advocate for too much in my own district, but this is one where with that understanding that there's potentially delays and what not due to those construction activities over the next five years. I would like to just request that be considered as another site. I understand that you assessed that one wasn't easily converted, but I would if it's possible like to get a budget estimate of what it might take to bring that up so that it would be a safe location for use of trailers. That's all I have, Chair. Thank you. ACTING CHR. INABA: Mahalo. Ms. Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I just want to wrap this up, and appreciate everyone's comments here. The mana`o of our Corporation Counsel, I just have a healthy appetite for risk, sorry. And this is how we have to have these conversations, right? Because of Sunshine Law we all have to be here, but I just want to recognize Brenda. Mahalo nui for just being willing to engage with me on this one, because when I dig in I'm digging in. And I think there is at least a willingness by the department, to see where we're coming from and understanding the frustration from community. And appreciate the assessments that are being done by our Risk Managers, totally appropriate to do that. But you're still coming out and you're finding creative solutions, so I really appreciate that. And that's where I want to focus. You've identified five locations maybe six Laupahoehoe where can, right? We don't want to hear no can, we want to hear how can, right? And I think you guys have identified based on your Risk Management formula and all that, where it's possible how we can proceed. And I want to work in that space, so if we can proceed at the next Council meeting November 2nd, coming forward with some daft language. And then also quick and dirty budget, around to what it would take to make these particular sites safe to accommodate the trailers. Let's just start there, let's just have the conversation and then we can proceed. I know that there's other sites and it's tricky, because our community is so huge and plenty rural communities, right? Let's entertain it for the next budget cycle, what those improvements could look like. Because I think for community to see all of that information, would be incredibly helpful. But again, I just wanted to start with you've identified sites where this is possible, let's start there. I think that's some common ground. MS. IOKEPA-MOSSES: In the meantime, could the public just try practicing at home using those trailers. Page 13 RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Director, is that okay that we proceed in this way? Brenda, make a video. Chuck Segawa, Fire Department, he's good at videos. MR. MANSOUR: Definitely. I mean, like I said we try to work with you all. We've identified the five locations. We need to assess them further and look at the traffic control plan. But these sites they have potential, but it needs some assessments and budget dollar figure attached to them so you guys see the picture. Once again, the service is not taken away, everybody still could use the transfer station. You know, because you guys make it sound like we not serving the public, we are serving the public. I just want to make sure that's clear, we not shutting down transfer stations. All we're saying is transport your waste in the back of your car, or hire a collection company to come pick up your waste and bring it to the transfer station. They have the service, we're not denying them service. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Just digesting that comment. Just looking at equity and privilege, right? I'm just going to leave it there. Again, just want to focus on where we can collaborate, right? So let's look at these locations, my colleague from District 1 has said can we also consider Laupahoehoe, because of the infrastructure conditions. So let's have further dialog at the next Council meeting. I'll leave it at that. Mahalo nui for making this a priority of your department, we appreciate it. I yield. ACTING CHR. INABA: Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. My colleague might have a healthy appetite for risk, I have a healthy appetite to work hard. And I have to say right now, my time with Brenda Iokepa-Mosses going to the transfer stations in Hilo was so incredibly valuable. So thank you, Brenda. But as we sat there and brainstormed a whole lot of different ideas, some of it was not attached to funding. And I see Ms. Iokepa-Mosses nodding her head. And like Ms. Kierkiewicz said, sometimes we got to have this rumble a little bit so that there's some—what, you know, people want to talk about political will, right, to get the job done. I would love to see maybe a quick timeline, also as far as what it would take to promulgate the rules. I understand there's a 30 -day process, I'm not even sure if that has to go through your Environmental Management Commission. You know, I would love to see that timeline, and go ahead and begin to back -map so we can start managing some of the expectations for community. And Director, you're right, you know, this is for community, you guys don't have a sexy job. Taking care of people's wastewater and solid waste is not sexy. But they do rely on it, and that's kind of oxymoron in this one, right? It all goes away, but when it's not there all of a sudden they realize, hey, it's a valuable service. Timeline Director, with the rules. And let's just keep working at it, Brenda. I think there's some creative solutions out there. Chair, I yield. Page 14 RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 ACTING CHR. INABA: Mahalo. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I have a question. So you go to a county park, there's coconuts in the trees, coconuts could fall anytime and kill anybody. But we don't say, people don't go to the park. We put up signs, coconuts. Okay, we go to the county beach get signs in the sand, high current, high surf, sharks. Just trying to understand the difference here. We have a risk situation, I have no data that's says it's a problem. Except you know, you did your studies, and I appreciate that. I'm sorry I'm saying there's no data. When I'm saying no data, I don't have a list of accidents that have occurred, problems that have been documented. And usually we have something like this we see documents and data that back up the decision. So the safety assessment okay, but where is the starting point? Okay, we had an accident, so I'm just trying to wrap my head around why this risk is different or any different than going to a county park where we have coconuts that can fall on your head. MR. MANSOUR: I think Judge Betsy really explained it well, so I'm not an attorney. I think she said it very, very, well. If you guys have the appetite for risk you open your checkbook, not the county's checkbook. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I understand. MR. MANSOUR: You see we're here to present the county I think, and the constituents two reports telling us you cannot do it, it's under design. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Can we get a copy of that report? Do we have that report? MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, we assured two filings, and you already have an Admin Rule in place that banned the trailers before this new Administration. So it is, what it is, you know, and we've got to live with it. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Just asking, just wanted to ask. Thank you, Director. MS. IOKEPA-MOSSES: We almost left on a high -note, thanks Sue. But Matt, we hear you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. I had to ask. MR. MANSOUR: We're doing our best to work with you, and your needs. Even about the funding, you guys know the department doesn't have a way to fund anything. But yet, you know, we talked about zero waste, we talked about reduction. But yeah we need to open seven days a week, we need to have trailer. So we need to put a goal, okay, because we cannot have mixed messages. So if our goal is to get to the 21" century, let's get to the 21" century. Not keep Page 15 RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 hatching the old 30 years -old system. So we need to take a stand, and we need to start thinking where do you guys want to go with it? Do you want to have more waste, do you want to have trailers for waste unlimited amount of cubic yard? You know, because that's what you can allow people to do. So the idea is, you know, we've got safety issues, we cannot overlook that. So I think we're going to do what we could do to help you all out. Hopefully it could be win-win situation. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Sorry for beating a dead horse, but I just cannot. MR. MANSOUR: Who knows one day it may get up, and win the derby, right? Let's hope. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Maybe a zombie horse will rise and win the derby. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Ms. Strance. Thank you, Chair, I yield. ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Now it's my turn. Are you all done? Okay, so I just want to make sure, because we've gone back and forth between what our constituents are telling us, and what safety concerns have been identified at some of these transfer stations. You folks have gotten to the point where we have five stations on our island, I can understand Council Member Kierkiewicz frustration, Director. Because we have this and I think we just weren't hearing the next step, and some kind of timeline as to when we can get that accomplished. We have a month set right now, but is that doable? Corporation Counsel sounded like it will just happen. I just want to make sure we're not going to be rushing things MS. IOKEPA-MOSSES: I think within that month, Malia will have an opportunity to draft the wording to get this on the board, and then we'll have to do public notice, and then we'll move from there. So we'll move as quickly as we can. ACTING CHR. INABA: So just to clarify, we will expect to see you folks here. Council Member Kierkiewicz will be having, I assume a communication or whatever it is in one month, right? This is doable, because we've gone all over the place. I want to make it very clear that you folks are able meet that deadline, and be back here. MR. MANSOUR: I just want to make sure one month to come back with the language. ACTING CHR. INABA: Just with the proposed language for the rules. MR. MANSOUR: That's step number one, yes. Because to come to implementation as I said, we're looking at February of 2022. Page 16 RAWEEMC-10 October 5, 2021 ACTING CHR. INABA: Just the rules and the timeline of how we expect to roll that out. MR. MANSOUR: Sure. ACTING CHR. INABA: Okay. With that and acknowledging it's quite a distance between Waimea and Hilo, in light of what's going on out there. I'll echo Council Member Kimball's—you know, we're not trying to ask for every transfer station but that's a huge chunk of our community unserved between Waimea and Hilo. With that any other discussion? Okay. There is a motion on the floor to close file on Communication 402. All those in favor please say "aye." Vote on Comm. 402: The motion to close file on Comm. 402 was carried by Filed the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba – 6. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung, David, and Richards – 3. Excused: None. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. (There were none.) BILLS FOR the Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. (There were none.) ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 3:17 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to MENT: adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba – 6. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung, David, and Richards – 3. Excused: None. Page 17 RAWEEMC-10 ACTING CHR. INABA: Meeting adjourned at 3:17 p.m. Approved: Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair Regenerative Agriculture, Water, Energy and Environmental Management Committee HR/rk (Date) October 5, 2021 Page 18 RAWEEMC-10 ACTING CHR. INABA: Meeting adjourned at 3:17 p.m. Approved: Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" chards, III, Chair Regenerative Agricu ure, Water, Energy and Environmental Management Committee HR/rk �� 21 (D' te) October 5, 2021 Page 18