HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN FC 2021/10/19 2020-2022 Committee on Finance
21st Session
West Hawaii Civic Center
74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A
Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
October 19, 2021
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Finance was called to order at
ORDER: 1:06 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kona, by Mr. Matt Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder,
Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Mr. Matt Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder, Chair(via videoconference from Hilo)
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Vice Chair
Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member
Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member(via videoconference from Hilo)
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards III, Member
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called by the
Chair:
Stephani Donoho: Bill 81 (Comm. 449), comment.
(representing Kohala Coast (See Comm. 449.4)
Resort Association)
Also, see the following written testimonies, which were presented at the meeting:
Georjean Adams: Bill 81 (Comm. 449), in support.
(See Comm. 449.2)
Dr. Richard Bennett: Bill 81 (Comm. 449), in support.
(See Comm. 449.3)
FC-21 October 19,2021
Mufi Hannemann: Bill 81 (Comm. 449.5), comment.
(representing Hawaii (See Comm. 448.5)
Lodging & Tourism Association)
Bronsten Kossow: Bill 81 (Comm. 449), in support.
(See Comm. 449.6)
Lee McIntosh: Bill 81 (Comm. 449.7), in opposition.
(See Comm. 449.7)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Donoho. Appreciate you
signing in today and providing us the testimony. I had a follow-up question for
you. If you would, what platform were you using to estimate the numbers for our
vacation rentals here?
MS. DONOHO: Thank you. It's a platform called AlltheRooms.com, and it is a
subscription platform that operates similar to a Zillow platform, and that it is for
people who are looking to purchase short-term vacation rentals. So there's a lot
of data. If you purchase a subscription, that tells you about how often an
accommodation is rented, what the average daily rate for that accommodation was
using.
MS. DAVID: Excuse me, Mr. Chair?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes?
MS. DAVID: Thank you. I know it's your privilege for chairing, but I think if
we could ask Ms. Donoho to hang around afterwards for any questions so we
could proceed with our testimonies, or our people that are
MS. DONOHO: I'm happy to do that.
MS. DAVID: Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. David. I wanted to clarify
that with her. It was an interesting point that she had made. I think it ties in very
well to our Planning Department and how we track.
Thank you, Ms. Donoho. We will keep you on, if you like, or if the Council
would like, for maybe some follow-ups during Bill 81 discussion, Because you
raised some very good points so far, thank you.
Okay, with that, that provided the end of our testimony. Correct, sir? Okay, so
we're going to go ahead and close public testimony and move to—let's see here, I
wanted to do—Mr. Clerk, if we could, we have Director Sako, Deputy Director
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Steve Hunt, and then we have Mr. Leopoldino—our Director Leopoldino here.
And if we could, take our 89-day contract, which would be Communication 84.3.
Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the
of Business: following items were taken out of order:
Comm. 84.3: FIRST QUARTER REPORT OF PERSONS EMPLOYED UNDER A
CONTRACT FOR LESS THAN 90 DAYS: JULY 1 –SEPTEMBER 30, 2021
From Acting Human Resources Director Waylen L. K. Leopoldino, dated
October 1, 2021, transmitting the above report pursuant to Section 2-12.5 of the
Hawaii County Code.
Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 84.3.
Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Again, Director Leopoldino, could you
come up, since you were nice enough to be here today?
(Note: At this time, Acting Human Resources Director Waylen Leopoldino
came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And just provide us a little background on
the communication in front of us, please.
MR. LEOPOLDINO: Good afternoon, Chair and members of Council.
Waylen Leopoldino, Acting Director of Human Resources. This is our quarterly
report on 89-day contracts that we have in place. I have met with both departments,
the Prosecuting Attorneys Office as well as the Police Department, on the status of
both programs.
The Police Department, as you may all know, that the Animal Control program, it's
a challenge with the Police Department, but they're doing a great job with standing
up contract positions to help with the needs in the community. These contracts,
although they're currently at 89 days, they need more than that, so they're likely
going to be extended to the end of the fiscal year, until they can figure out what to
do with the program long-term.
But the Drug Diversion Program Specialist, that's a grant-funded position. That's a
great program that the Prosecuting Attorney's Office has in place to come up with
programs as alternatives for offenders going mainstream into getting convicted and
going through the judiciary process. So, they have that specialist position funded
temporarily through grant funds.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you, sir. Council Members,
any questions for the Acting Director? Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Mahalo, Director. Just one clarifying
question on the Animal Control Specialist. If there is a need to engage more
individuals to support this particular program, does anything inhibit Police
Department and your office from standing up more contracts to fill more potential
short-term positions?
MR. LEOPOLDINO: At this time, if there is a need, the department has been, so
far, been readily available to stand up more positions as they need it, so I don't see
any issues with that.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. And then the success of how the program is currently
being administered could inform permanent positions within the County?
MR. LEOPOLDINO: Yes. Yes, yes.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Great. Thank you for those details. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Any questions
in Kona? Okay, hearing none. We have the motion on the floor to close file on
Communication 84.3, all in favor?
Vote on Comm. 84.3: The motion to close file on Comm. 84.3 was carried
Filed by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Richards,
Villegas, and Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And let's go right to the top of the order.
You know what, actually let's change it up. Let's go right to Bill 81.
Bill 81: AMENDS CHAPTER 2, OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016
EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY ADDING A NEW ARTICLE TO
IMPLEMENT A COUNTY TRANSIENT ACCOMMODATIONS TAX
Establishes a three percent transient accommodations tax to be levied on all
gross rental, gross rental proceeds, and fair market rental value considered
taxable, under the definitions of Section 237D-1, Hawaii Revised Statutes,
beginning on January 1, 2022.
Reference: Comm. 449
Intr. by: Ms. Kimball
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and
Comm. 449.1: From Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated October 11, 2021, transmitting
the Kauai Transient Accommodation Tax Bill (Exhibit A) and the Maui
Transient Accommodation Tax Bill (Exhibit B).
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kimball moved to recommend passage of Bill 81
on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Villegas.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Council Members, discussion?
Ms. Kimball, if you could lead us off.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. I just want to start by
thanking the numerous people that helped contribute to putting this piece of
legislation together, particularly our own Judge Strance, from Corp. Counsel;
Director Sako and Deputy Director Hunt, from our Department of Finance; the
Director and Deputy Director, from State DOTAX(Department of
Transportation), and of course Donna Eckersley, in LRB (Legislative Research
Branch), who helped put the final thing together.
It's pretty straightforward. This is the piece of legislation that establishes the
three percent TAT (Transient Accommodation Tax) for the County. We are the
last County to begin consideration of this. Kauai and Maui County have already
passed their bills, and City and County of Honolulu is working on theirs currently.
A couple of things. So as our testifier mentioned, there was a bill within the
Legislature to establish this three percent TAT, and to withdraw the portion that
was contributed to the counties. That actually died; but while it was in progress,
I did write testimony in opposition to it. Because on the matter of principal,
you know, the TAT was established to help the counties deal with the
infrastructure impacts of the visitor industry. Though that bill died through
various mechanicians, it did end up being the law of the land through Act 340.
There'sI'm sorry, through the Act 1.
A couple of the things about how it's written. First of all, the State cannot collect
this for us and give it to us. We have to collect it. We also have to calculate the
three percent, which is a little bit unusual. But the language of the bill requires
that we actually do the calculation. Fortunately, DOTAX has been willing to
work with the counties and come up with a mechanism, where from the user end
it will appear as if it's a seamless process; but at one point, the payees will
actually diverted it to a county site to calculate that three percent, collect the
payment. So, some of the language in here has to do with that.
As we have further discussion, I'm curious to hear what my colleagues think.
There are a couple of things that I wanted to highlight, one is that I included
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Kaua`i's and Maui's TAT bills. Which you had an opportunity to review them,
they're much lengthier than ours. And I want to really credit Deanna(Sako) and
Judge Strance for helping to pare this down to what we actually needed to do
rather than just putting all of the Hawaii Revised Statutes (HRS) language into
our bill. I think as a result, we have a much more clear and elegant piece of
legislation. However, I did include those because I want everyone's eyes on it,
just to make sure that we crossed all of our t's, dotted our i's, and brought over
everything from the HRS that we needed to.
The second two things that I will mention—we continue to have some discussion
with DOTAX around the appeals. We think our language there is okay at this
point, but the next time we hear this, there may be some amendments. They're
continuing to work with their attorney, and I'll let Judge Strance delve into that in
a little bit more detail.
And then finally, we need to revisit the reference in terms of the payment of the
tax to the return. We've gone back and forth about a return versus a voucher,
versus nothing at all. So there may be some language clarification around that, as
I mentioned, that has to do a little bit with the limitations of the law and how we
can actually collect the tax, and having to calculate that three percent.
So please give us your feedback, I'm looking forward to hearing what everyone
has to say. The comments that were made by the testifier about some of the other
considerations, I'm certainly taking those into account, as well. And hopefully
we can have Finance talk a little bit more specifically about the actual
expectations as far as revenue with the implementation of this legislation. Thank
you, Chair. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Deanna, if you
want to come up. I'd like to hear your feedback a little bit on this before the
Council really digs in the questions.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako and Deputy Director
Steve Hunt came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And thank you, Ms. Kimball, for bringing
this forward. It is very much appreciated. And for Kona, we have Mr. Hunt and
Ms. Sako here.
MS. SAKO: Good afternoon. You know, so yeah, so the Legislature puts the
counties in this awkward position of, you know, taking away our share of the
TAT, but allowing us to, I guess, implement up to three-percent surcharge, or an
additional TAT tax.
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So as you know, Kauai and Maui passed it already. Theirs—it was effective
October 1st. And Maui is the island that is expected to generate the most revenue.
So there was an allocation of the $103 million between the four counties, and it
wasn't exactly proportional to what was collected in TAT by each island.
We were very fortunate that we got a larger percentage because we were the
Big Island and have more island to cover, more parks to cover, more
infrastructure being utilized by tourists. So we are the County that—it's going to
take us probably, based on the State's estimates, two or three years to get back up
to what we were making prior, the $19.158 million from the State.
So for Fiscal Year 2022, if it had been enacted for the entire year, the State's
projection would be that Hawaii County would get$13.1 million. In FY (Fiscal
Year) 2023, they project$16.7 million, and I think this based a lot on the Council
and revenues, and then in Fiscal Year 2024, we would be up to $18.8 million.
Of course, all of this is dependent on the pandemic, as well. I mean, we've all
seen the swings on tourism. You know, this summer there were a lot of visitors
here, then the Governor kind of asked people to stay home and the hospitals got
full. So, you know, it's just going to depend on what tourism does. So these are
obviously based on Council of Revenues, based on their best estimates with the
information they have.
But then by Fiscal Year 2025, it hopefully would be up in the $20.9 million and
then slowly creeping up. But in Fiscal Year 2019,which was the full year of
visitors prior to the pandemic, if that was the income, it would be approximately
the same amount that we had been receiving, which was just under $19.2 million.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Deanna. Question,just to
follow up,just to get a little bit of a better overview. I mean, what—do you know
what our portion of TAT that we provided to the State? Not what we get back
from them, but what is that number that goes to the State from our island? Do
you have that number?
MS. SAKO: So now that they're going to kind of be they had to break it out by
island; we have that information. Previously it was all consolidated, I believe.
Steve's been kind of tracking that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. What is that number, Steve, that we
provide to the State in TAT, from our island, our County?
MR. HUNTER: I would have to look at that. I do have that information; I just
don't have it at hand. But they are—in the past, they used to break out the hotels,
that may have chain hotels, and they might have report it in one jurisdiction. For
the past two years they've actually required them to report by their area where
they're generating the revenue, so we can track how much revenue is being
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produced, what those net taxable proceeds are by county, and then we can tell you
how much is going to the current allocation, at ten and a quarter, how much is
going to the State directly now for our share, I guess, of contribution to the State.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Do you think you can get that
information before we end the meeting today?
MR. HUNT: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, good. Good. Okay, I'm going to let
the other Council Members go ahead with their questions. Kona, questions,
concerns?
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, Mr. Chairman. This is Aaron. I just have a—it's a
question, I guess to the Chair or anyone else, staff. A reference was made by
one of the—well, the only speaker, Ms. Donoho, about something that was sent to
us, a written communication. Does anybody have that?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Her written testimony?
MS. KIMBALL: If I may, Chair? It's in Laserfiche, under testimony for today
(see Comm. 449.4).
MR. CHUNG: Where is it?
MS. KIMBALL: It's in Laserfiche, for the testimony for today.
MR. CHUNG: Oh, yeah.
MS. KIMBALL: I can have it printed real quickly, if you'd like?
MR. CHUNG: Oh, so we don't have a copy then?
MS. KIMBALL: No, we don't have a physical copy.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It was provided via the written testimony.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah. Well, I'm just wondering if we can get a copy while we're
discussing things.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Did you have anything else,
Mr. Chung, while we work on that?
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, not right now.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chung. Kona,
questions, concerns, comments?
MR. RICHARDS: Chair?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mr. Richards, go ahead. Thank you.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, thank you. Anytime we start talking about new taxes, I
get a little leery, especially when we're in our financial recovery phase. That
being said, I think there's a definite way forward on dealing with this. Since it
was highlighted by Ms. Kimball concerning the whole intent of TAT, and I think
voted in '86, came to fruition in '87, at that time the State collected approximately
$60 million of which 95 percent went to the counties, divided by the formula.
Fast forward to where we are today, let me back up, maybe a year or two ago,
we were collecting somewhat over $600 million in TAT, but it was capped at
$103 (million) for the counties, and our allocation was about$19 million. The
whole intent of TAT was a tourism impact fee, for a lack of a better term, to help
us take care of our structures, infrastructures, parks, and recreation, et cetera, that
would be impacted by the increase in tourism, and so I think the concept was very
sound.
So like I said, thinking a way going forward. When we are looking at this tax,
and I don't know if this is a question for Ms. Kimball or if it's a question for
Deanna, Director. The intent of the collections out of this three percent, I can
fully support if it is specified that it goes into essentially what it was originally
destined for, taking care of Parks and Recreation,you know, substantial of that
going to Parks and Recreation to deal with that, and some of the other things that
could directly be impacted by tourism.
For instance, we've talked about management of tourism: Waipi`o Valley; my
side, Polulu Valley, if we have the structure. So I guess my question is, how are
we going to administer? Where is this funding going to go? Is it going into a
tourism mitigation fund, that we then have that figured out, or what's the plans for
the funds? How are we going to deal with this? Chair, do I ask Ms. Kimball, or
is this a question for Ms. Sako?
MS. KIMBALL: I can respond initially, and then pass it to Director Sako.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MR. RICHARDS: That's good for me.
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MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, so the way the bill is written, as of right now the funds
from this collection will go directly into the General Fund, and the logic behind
that is that's where the TAT funds that we used to get went. I believe it's in
Ms. Donoho's letter that there is concern from the visitor industry that we have
some sort of clarity around where these funds go and how they relate to tourism,
and Deanna can elaborate on this more. That's a difficult thing to do, because if
you say you know, if you've got a lifeguard, you know, part of the time they're
saving local folks and part of the time they're saving visitors. You've got a roads.
Part of the time locals are out driving on that,part of the time the visitors are
driving on it.
So there have been efforts in the past to try to say, "Okay, these are visitor
specific impacts." But I think it's difficult to do. And we still have bills to pay.
You know, this is $20 million that was removed from the General Fund, and we
still have expenses to cover. Director Sako, do you want to expand that? You can
probably speak more eloquently.
MS. SAKO: So when the TAT was reduced in FY 2020, and then reduced to zero
in FY 2021, and that's actually what's budgeted for FY 2022, the current fiscal
year, we didn't reduce the expenditures to like Parks and Recreation, Fire, Police,
and others that may have been dealing with visitors. What we did reduce was our
OPEB (Other Post-Employment Benefits) because that was allowed by State law.
So we still have these expenditures. So if we're going to make a special fund or
something like that, we would have to come up with a way to shift those costs
from the General Fund to that fund.
But as Council Member Kimball said, it's kind of hard to break it out. That's not
to say we couldn't come out with a formula, but it has to be based on averages. I
don't think we're going to ask the lifeguards to ask each person at the beach that
they have to warn, to back-up or whatever. You know, keep away from the
ocean, the waves are big, or something like that to track was that a tourist or a
local person. But we need to continue to service the tourists and the locals alike.
I'm not sure if that answered the question.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, Deanna, actually that does start going towards the
answer that I'm looking for. I'm not about creating a huge bureaucracy to
administer the funds. That being said, I'm also not of the mindset that I
would support something that could get swallowed and then kind of sidelined
for something else. And again talking to constituency along the coast, and they
are—and you've heard Ms. Donoho support this, and I'm going to say a
conditional support,provided we use the funds—what the whole intent was back
in the past.
I am very mindful that we can get ourselves in a situation where we have some
sort of event, or catastrophic event, where we need to divert funds for a period of
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time or something like that. And so I think there needs to be a way of managing
the funds. But what I don't want to allow to happen in government, which you
see more often than not, that these funds get siphoned away and end up not
dealing with what they need to. Because we're talking about redesigning tourism.
Okay, if we're going to do these funds, do we have a management fee?
Now, there were comments being made about vacation rentals. Do we hire
people to manage that and go after the people that are not paying the TAT? I
think we need to talk story about that. Like I said, I can support this, especially
the fact that the constituency is supporting if we expend the funds right. And one
the questions for Director, collecting the funds, I'm assuming this would come
directly to the County and we would administer, is that your intention?
MS. SAKO: Right now, it is. We're working with the other three counties to
have a statewide system, so that for those vendors that may have properties on all
four islands, or all four counties rather, that they could just use the same system to
report.
One of the things that we do know is that we are going to—in order to exchange
information with the State, we have to have a tax department, so to speak, or a
Division of Finance, that would be called like our Tax Division. So if this passes
or moves forward, we would be coming forward with a resolution to create
additional positions.
MR. RICHARDS: Which gets back to the comment I made earlier. And I would
be supportive of that as long as those positions also went after seeking more the
people that are not paying the tax.
MS. SAKO: Right, the enforcement portion.
MR. RICHARDS: Yes. And so with that, I just wanted to throw that on the
table; I don't take the Council's time. I am generally supportive if we target
where this is going to go, and we target how we're going to do expenditure. So
with that, Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Good questions.
Okay, Mr. Chung. Go ahead.
MR. CHUNG: You know, regardless of how one votes on this matter, I think we
really owe a debt of gratitude to Ms. Kimball for taking the bull by the horns on
this pretty significant fiscal measure.
You know, we were looking at a deadline, because the effective date of this per
the Hawaii State statute is, I think, in January of 2022, right? And I know
Ms. Kimball worked with Corporation Counsel as well as the Finance
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Department. You know, this is something that I thought, you know,just
intuitively, there's no real hard and fast rule to this, but this is something that
needed to be generated from the Council instead of the administration; that's just
my thought, of course. And that's why I just wanted to recognize Ms. Kimball in
that regard. I will be supporting it, though.
I mean, there are several ways of looking at this measure. There are some public
policy implications, as well. But I just look at it simply, everybody else is doing
it throughout the State, we cannot put ourselves, or hamstring ourselves,
particularly as a visitor, if I go to Honolulu, I've got to pay that three percent for
Honolulu, or Maui, or Kauai; when they come here, they don't have to. I don't
think that's fair. I mean, we should be uniform throughout the State. That's my
thoughts. I'll be supporting this. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung.
MR. BROWN: Mr. Chair, we have Council Member Lee Loy and Council
Member David with their lights on in Hilo.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I'm going with Ms. Kierkiewicz,
and I'll come back to Kona.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Mahalo nui, Council Member Kimball,
for bringing this forward; I'm glad someone was. I reached out to the
administration to make sure someone was on it, and they said somebody was, so
I'm glad it was you. Really appreciate how thoughtful you were around this.
You know,just pinging upon what Council Member Richards brought up, you
know, he was speaking my love language there for a second, talking about fiscal
responsibility. As much as I want to support this measure before us, I would like
to have a discussion around providing a bit more specificity for where these funds
go. Only because as a body we had adopted the second-tier residential, which
brought in a stream of funding, and tax values have increased, and so I don't think
we're bleeding for money. And so we have the opportunity as policymakers, as
the Legislative Branch, to set priorities and fund what's really important to us.
So couple things to consider, because we have said in I think last Committee,
when we were talking about the inclusionary zoning policy, a resolution. We're
losing housing stock to transient accommodations. Housing is a real need here.
The other thing, Parks and Recreation, visited by residents and tourists.
I will also share with all of you that last week there was a presentation by Parks
and Recreation on $4.9 million for lava recovery. Half a million was proposed to
be spent at the Hilo Golf Course. They reduced it to $200,000. But there's a
clear need to support Parks and Recreation. It should not be on the backs of the
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Puna community. So I would like to consider that the department get its fair share
to this stream of funding.
I would love to talk story with Director Sako about the kinds of formulas that you
have in mind to be able to set or support the legislative priorities that we as a body
can get behind. So, I just want to throw that out there for discussion. Thank you,
Chair. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Okay, back
to Kona. Let's go with Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: I believe Ms. Lee Loy had her light on first.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. You know, I have a lot of questions, and I'll start
with you, Deanna. And, Ms. Kimball, thank you for putting this forward because
it actually made me roll up my sleeves and figure out where we were fiscally. My
biggest challenge, Deanna, was the most recent budget summary that we have in
the office was June, and so this idea of how far are we in the hole was very cloudy
to me. It's challenging for me to support at this time without really having a lot of
that information in front of us because we're—let's start there. Deanna, is there a
way that we could get the budget summary and where all of our expenditures are,
you know, how much we still have in various department accounts that haven't
been expended?
MS. SAKO: Just to clarify, you mean for the current fiscal year?
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, you know, we always get the bluebook.
MS. SAKO: So last week, they finished closing last fiscal year, so now they'll
start, and hopefully quickly, close the current fiscal year to prepare the bluebook.
But we do have all the information. Everything that's been collected to expended
is recorded in our software, so we can produce a version that may not be the final
numbers for the month since there are some additional adjustments that have to be
made.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, that would actually help me understand fiscally where we
are, because if we want to start planning for the future and assigning some of this
TAT into the areas like parks that are utilized by residents and tourists alike, I
think that would be incredibly helpful.
And then earlier you mentioned the OPEB payment, and we hear that every year
during our fiscal cycle—our budget cycle. That's always such a huge number and
we felt this year was like, oh, thanks that we didn't have to pay it. But now we've
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FC-21 October 19,2021
got to pay it. What does that OPEB payment look like? And then based on the
ability to collect this TAT, what you mentioned earlier, and correct me if I'm
wrong, is it would take the better part of three years to make back the loss. Could
you please expand on that?
MS. SAKO: So if we were at our tourism counts that we had in Fiscal Year 2019,
I want to make sure I got the right year, that was the last full year of tourism,
then—and we had that same revenue and applied the three precent, we would be
approximately equal as to what—with this three percent versus what we were
getting from the State. However, since then we had a decline. So all we can go
off of is the Council on Revenues' projections for each island. And they're
saying that in Fiscal Year 2022, you know, instead of like $19.2 million, they're
forecasting revenue of$13.1 million, although I believe that was based on the full
fiscal year, and we would be starting in January. And then Fiscal Year 2023,
they're projecting $16.7 million versus the $19.2 million or $19.158 million that
were getting.
So by Fiscal Year 2024, it's pretty much break even, at$18.8 million versus
$19.2 million. But again, you know, with the pandemic everything is a
projection. No one knows for sure until tourism kind of rebounds again. But, that
would be the approximate amounts.
So because the State waived the requirement of having to pay the OPEB, we did
fund, I want to say $5 million in the current year, but that left us short,
approximately $16 million of what we should have been paying. But we also did
add funding to Parks, for example, to their maintenance account, you know, in
their current operating budget, and that is intended to remain there for future years
as well because we know they were you know, they definitely needed additional
funding for our parks.
MS. LEE LOY: Great, Deanna. And then I want to talk a little bit more about
some of the other taxes that we've increased, GE(General Excise). Do we know
what that forecast looks like around our GE? I know the Council on Revenues,
put out some information, and I know that GE was tied to our mass transit and
some of our roads. What does that forecast look like?
MS. SAKO: So for both of the pandemic, FY 2021 and I think 2022, we
forecasted a 25 percent decrease, and we went based on what we thought was
going to be a full year of$50 million. So it actually was coming in. It wasn't a
full 25 percent decrease. So we did collect what we budgeted and a little bit more
in GET (General Excise Tax), which is also tourism-based.
MS. LEE LOY: Perfect. And see—what happens is although we had projection,
we collected a little bit more, and I'm just wondering how that collection will
then offset the rest of the General Fund. And then, the Fuel Tax?
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FC-21 October 19,2021
MS. SAKO: So the General Excise Tax cannot be utilized for any General
Fund operations. We have moved whatever we could to both the Highway
Fund and the General Excise Tax Fund when we were having those budget, you
know, difficult years. So for example, like I think Traffic, is now sittingsorry,
Police Traffic Enforcement, I should be clear, is sitting in the Highway Fund
because that could be related, and fell under the allowable purposes of the law,
and then—as supported by Corporation Counsel—but at the time, Corporation
Counsel said it didn't fall under General Excise Tax. So that remaining fund
balance does sit in the General Excise Tax Fund. We've also transferred part of it
to our Debt Service Fund to support the debt on roads that we've built over the
time as well as just—into Capital Projects Fund, so that the mass transit, and
roads, and bridge projects can be funded, as well as you might recall that we
also set some aside for the Hurricane Lane match because a lot of the bridges
were damaged in the Hamakua District.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Deanna—and then Fuel Tax. That's why I'm back
to if we had seen the bluebook, we would actually have a better picture.
MS. SAKO: Yeah. So I think the discussion—well, actually it only was for
General Fund. So on Friday we did submit the Fund Balance letter to Council for
General Fund. It doesn't have each fund in it.
Highway Fund, the fuel tax was little bit over. But also, the other tax in there that
I am escaping the name of—Franchise Tax, thank you, Steve, was a little bit
under. So there's definitely some things that offset each other in that fund, on the
revenue side.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. Thanks, Deanna. We're having to do this, because
sometimes that information would have been available to us so we could've
gotten a bigger picture.
And the one thing that's unknown to me right now related to the General Fund,
and I know the rest of my colleagues have seen this, is we see a number of
postings for vacant positions that have yet to be filled, and I don't understand how
much of the General Fund hasn't been utilized because those positions have
stayed vacant for three, four, maybe even up until this point maybe nine months
vacant. Is that possible for us to get that information, also?
MS. SAKO: When we discuss the Fund Balance letter, I think staff did put that
on the spreadsheet, as how much was that. Part of that Salaries and Wages
(S&W) savings in the last year though was also because we had CARES
(Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security)Act, and we were able to
transfer some of the S&W there because we knew some of the shortfalls would
be that would be like the lifeguards, for example, didn't get funded fully by the
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FC-21 October 19,2021
State, and things like that. So some of the lapsing is not all entirely due to
vacancies. But there is some, that's also why we try to fund, you know,partial
year rather, you know, for some of the vacancies, as well.
In addition though, when there are vacancies, that usually means that the other
employees have to pick up the slack, and so there's usually part of that money is
used for overtime to help cover.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Deanna. And then, you know, we know we're going to
have to plug a hole in our Fire budget because of the Mana Road Fire.
MS. SAKO: Yeah.
MS. LEE LOY: So I share all of this with colleagues because not that this
legislation is not ready, it is. I don't think I'm ready to vote in favor of this
without getting a clearer picture. You know, whether it's holding it here in
Committee for one more meeting, or pushing it forward with the understanding
that Finance will get us some of that information so that we can make better
decisions. Because I'm also hearing from my other colleagues, like we want to
focus the money to really address some of the areas that community really, really
needs. We know Ms. Kimball needs bridges in her district. You know,
everybody's got parks. With that, I'm going to yield my time. Thank you. I
yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Ms. David, go
ahead.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Just wanted to say thank
you, Council Member Kimball, for bringing this forward. I think everyone,
myself included, when we were—got noticed that we would not be getting any
TAT, and then this was the only option. I pretty much felt that I think how
everybody else feels, we have no choice in this matter, and this is the only way
that we could recover some of the money that we desperately need to cover
impacts from the tourist industry on all of our facilities. So, I definitely will
support this.
And I understand that I know we need more accounting at this time, but Deanna,
thank you for your general breakdown of how you see this collection happening.
And that was my question, are we geared up then to implement, collect the fees,
and also address the enforcement part? Because I think that's very important.
Thank you, Ms. Donoho, for pointing that out. I think we need to figure out just
how many short-term rentals that we could be actually receiving funding from.
Because that makes upI mean, if we're about half-and-half, that's a huge
amount of money that we could possibly
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FC-21 October 19,2021
So I think enforcement, for me, in moving forward with this. Enforcement is
pretty much priority. And then if you guys are ready and geared up to
implement this increase, and collection, et ceteraI just want to get your opinion
on how whether you folks would be ready to do it by the time this becomes
implemented.
MS. SAKO: So Steve has been working with the other Finance departments at
the other counties to try to come up with a statewide system. So they're getting
ready to put out an RFP (Request for Proposal). We're trying to determine what
solutions we want. So there may be like additives; for example, of enforcement,
and having them do it statewide. You know, making sure that people are looking
at it. And I should clarify that when we are giving the estimates from the State or
our projections and calculations, it is based on what's currently being collected.
So if there is a lot of revenue that's not being collected, obviously that would
impact the numbers, as well. But we definitely are looking at it and working with
Planning on that.
But Steve has been working on it and is prepared, I believe, to start those
collections January 1st, if needed. Kauai and Maui have started. So we're also
obviously paying a significant attention to what they're doing, especially in the
short-term, should the statewide system not be ready on January 1st
MS. DAVID: Well, thank you for that, Director. Steve, do you wish to add
something to that as far as our being able to gear up and implement this?
MR. HUNT: Sure. Thank you, Council Member David. As far as timing I
guess, knowing that we're looking at an effective date of January 1st doesn't
mean the money actually starts flowing, because it closes at the end of January,
January 31st, and then they have until February 20th to actually make the payment.
So definitely, we want to keep that in mind. That as we're moving forward and
working towards our Cooperative Purchase Agreement, we may not be able to
stand it up with a four-county solution initially. But that is the goal, that we're
trying to make it as seamless to the taxpayers, so they don't have to go on to both
the State side and four different county sites to make payments and do those
calculations. We're trying to have one landing site for all four counties to do that.
But, we're also working under different timelines. Obviously, the most important
is getting the ordinance passed and standing up, at least on paper, an
organizational chart that shows we have a Tax Division, because that will trigger
the MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) with the State.
And the other portion that I really to get an early jump on is notifying those that
have been, or at least in the last 18 months, have been paying taxes, TAT and
TOT (Transient Occupancy Tax) taxes. And in order to get that mailing list from
the State, those are the requirements. We have to have the Tax Division set up
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structurally, and we also have to have an ordinance passed that allows us to
initiate that three percent, or up to three percent tax. The sooner the better.
In terms of positions, we're really trying to figure out what is the best position
count, and whether that's a permanent or temp. A lot of that may depend on the
results of the RFP and how much of that can be automated; how much of the
reconciliation process can be automated. I think that's again part of that is
dealing with an online payment system, but also those that are going to be mailing
in payments. We can't preclude that. We would like everyone to do it online, but
there are going to be some that are maybe smaller operators that want to do this
manually, and we have to have a system that has the flexibility to take in those
manual payments. We have to have a means of auditing. We have a
reconciliation. And then, there's also a grandfather clause. So we would have to
be able to look at those on an individual basis and make adjustments.
So, it is a process. And again, as much as I want to make sure we get a good bill,
I also want to make sure that I can stress the time is somewhat of the essence as
we move forward towards that January 1st date.
MS. DAVID: Thank you so much for that explanation. It answers quite a few of
my questions. So just in closing, I just want to say that given the fact that we
went through COVID, the things that we experienced in seeing how the impacts
of tourism had on our parks, and our open spaces, I think I never seen a more
healthy environment, or shoreline, or beaches that I've seen for many years,
except during COVID.
So while we speak of redoing or rethinking our tourism industry, I see this as a
kind of a first step in that direction. So if we're really thinking about addressing
those impacts and how much tourism does impact our natural environment and
our culture, this is one way of putting our money where our mouth is and getting a
head start on actually doing something that's positive.
And I thank you guys for your work in trying to put together and implement this
very complicated set of collections. So, thank you again. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. David. Anyone else in
Kona?
MS. VILLEGAS: Go ahead, Mr. Inaba. Your light was on before mine.
MR. INABA: Okay. Well, first of all, thank you, Council Member Kimball, and
the team in Hilo and here in chambers in Kona, for getting this before us. And I
know, I believe, Mr. Hunt probably spoke with his counterparts on Kauai. I
know they've been working on this in June, when I stopped by their county
building.
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FC-21 October 19,2021
Like Chair David said, you know, we're kind of forced into acting on this. And I
guess for the purpose of clarification, especially for those listening in from the
public, what we're proposing here—all of this three percent, Ms. Kimball, is
going to be going into the General Fund, is that correct? As it's currently written?
MS. KIMBALL: Yes, as the legislation is currently written, it all goes into the
General Fund. I will say that City and County of Honolulu are looking at
earmarking, so it's definitely something that could be done.
MR. INABA: Okay. I would say I'm going to be supporting today. And perhaps
we might all think about areas that we are definitely in need. It came up, Parks
and Recreation, and we know facilities across are island are in need of help. So,
that might be my only suggestion. And I'll think of ways, based on what you
provided, as a solid start for this bill. So thank you so much. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ms. Villegas, go
ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. I want to thank everybody for their thoughtful
comments, and especially Ms. Kimball, on the work that it's taken to take what
was otherwise kind of another nail in a coffin, of our County budget, based on the
State's managing of TAT, and working so hard with HSAC (Hawai`i State
Association of Counties), you know, an alternate on our HSAC, representation for
the County. And Ms. Kimball really works really hard with that group and this is
one of the topics, hot topics, that's come up, as the rest of the counties, once
again, look at ways to mitigate the challenges in the loss of this tax revenue. So
thank you for taking the initiative and working with the administration to outline
these things, and how we can move forward.
I had an interesting piece of communication from a constituent this last week,
in fact asking kind of where I stood on it. You know, I am going to be supporting
this. It's something that I believe we're in a place that it needs to happen. And
I agree with you that—and I agree very strongly with Chair David's reflections
on I mean, we saw firsthand what happened when our tourism, sadly economy
paused, but also with that pause in visitors, and impact on our natural resources,
and our infrastructure pause, it became very apparent what happens and does
happen when we don't have that kind of that overuse. And something I wanted
to—somebody pointed out to me also, was you know, the article in the
newspaper, it was stated by the CEO (Chief Executive Officer) of Hawaii
Lodging and Tourism Association that it would—if this measure passed, that it
would make Hawaii the state with the highest lodging tax in the nation. And I'm
really incredibly grateful to Mr. Dennis Boyd for providing me with these are
2018 documents—and hospital itynet.org, and it's a whole urban centers, total
lodging tax rate ranking as of 2018. And while Hawaii may garner the highest
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FC-21 October 19,2021
lodging tax revenues of all the other states, we actually do not by any means have
the highest lodging tax rate. We're actually ranked—we're here, on this one,
Honolulu represents, for the State of Hawaii here, and it's ranked number 57,
with Omaha, Nebraska rating number one at a 20.5 percent total lodging tax rate
ranking; puts them in number one.
So just in the broader spectrum of municipalities and how tax rates are utilized
within these municipalities, I felt some sense of relief and comfort that we are not
throwing ourselves way outside, what is being utilized in other municipalities.
And I think this likens you know, nobody likes to raise taxes. Nobody likes
taxes to begin with. I mean, you go back to futile economies and the history of
taxes, and there are many ironies there. However,this is the means that has been
identified to raise funds for our municipality, and it's within our responsibility to
make decisions that allow for us to garner the resources necessary to take care of
the infrastructure for the people that live here. That live here; for our people.
And with tourism continuing to be a large portion of our economy—of course, the
goal is to make it equitable. The goal is toI really also want to thank Stephanie,
Ms. Donoho, for her comments and presentation, and her incredible attention to
detail, and ability to articulate and identify the areas that we aren't covering, and
that could provide a broader support and more equitable balancing of making sure
that we're getting those dollars everywhere possible.
So I thank you once again, Council Member Kimball, for bringing this forward.
It took courage and determination to tackle this issue. All right, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. I'm going to go
back to Ms.
MS. KIMBALL: Chair? Chair, this is Council Member Kimball. Judge Strance
would like to make a comment on something.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Kimball.
Ms. Strance, go ahead.
MS. STRANCE: Thank you, Chair. Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. I
did want to just mention to Ms. Donoho that there is an attempt to address one of
the concerns raised, about identifying an enforcement, and it allows the Finance
Director to share information with other departments charged with permitting
oversights for enforcement of transient accommodations. So there is some
language in there.
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FC-21 October 19,2021
I know that Council Member Kimball has talked about a collaborative process and
that there would probable amendments to the bill before the next hearing on it.
And if there are specific concerns or language that you would want considered, to
please share them with Council Member Kimball so that we can work them in.
Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Strance. Ms. Kimball,
would you like to kind of sum up where we stand right now before I go to second
round for Council Members?
MS. KIMBALL: No. Council Member Lee Loy has her light on. I would like to
ask you to just come back to me before you proceed with the vote on the matter.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. I'm going to go ahead to
Ms. Kierkiewicz in Hilo. She has her light on.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Council Member Kimball,just curious
because you are part of HSAC, if there has been any discussion among the
counties to engage the hospitality industry to see if they would be willing to
provide kama`aina discount of three percent, to kind of offset any impact by
residents should they travel to other islands or want to do a staycation on island?
Just wondering if there's any discussion about doing that.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you for the question, Council Member Kierkiewicz. I'm
going to refer this to Judge Strance. But I believe,because it's taxation, offering a
discount for some folks may not be legal, although the visitor industry could
reduce the room rates to compensate for the three percent. But that's beyond the
scope of your question, the answer is no, HSAC didn't discuss that particular item
with the resort industry.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Maybe that's something you can take up to
the group to discuss. I think that would help to soften the blow a little bit by local
residents, who do want to stay on other islands or do a staycation here on Big
Island.
The other thing is I hope that I know that you've been listening very intently to
a lot of the conversation that we've been having here at the Council, and do hope
that you plan to keep this measure in Committee at least one more time. Happy to
work with you, or solo, to kind of follow up with Deanna about the formula that
she mentioned to fund for various priorities that we've identified are really
important. This has a potential to raise over $20 million additional for our
County, and we would be remiss if did not leverage this moment and really direct
funding streams to support particular opportunities and priorities, such as the
Revolving Housing Fund, such as supporting our parks and recreational facilities.
So I would love to go to work with you on that and hope that we can keep this
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FC-21 October 19,2021
in Committee for a little bit longer to make sure that any issues that Council
Members have are resolved. Thank you, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIMBALL: Chair, this is Council Member Kimball, if I may?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go ahead, Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, I just I wanted to note for folks that if you're a local
resident and you're paying—staying in a room and you're paying the TAT and
the purpose is for a business trip, you are able to deduct that as a business
expense. And then just to your comment, happy to work with anyone that has
amendments or suggestions. So please reach out after today's conversation.
Thanks, Chair. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Okay, Kona? I
know Ms. Lee Loy has her light on. Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Following up the three percent, it goes into the
General Fund, correct? Deanna, and this is no way a concern about the
two percent Open Space Fund, but then does that increase? Because we've
increased the General Fund, that more would be directed into our PONC (Public
Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Commission) fund?
MS. SAKO: No. Both PONC and the Disaster Fund wording is very specific to
real property taxes only.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay, great. Thank you for answering that. Yeah, Ibecause
I'm not seeing the complete fiscal picture, I would want to hold it in Committee.
But if we don't' get there, I do want to work with the author; but actually with
Deanna, to understand the different mechanisms of kind guiding certain funding
into certain areas that we know are incredibly important for all of our County
assets.
But I'm just having a real hard problem of seeing the entire fiscal picture at this
time. I know, Deanna, we can have an offline conversation, and we can get there,
which would actually help me potentially look at amendments and/or ways to
guide funding so that everybody else is getting what they need, in addition to
having the staff that we need to account for all of this money. With that, I yield.
MS. SAKO: I think we can put some slides together for next time,just to
show the current status. And then I just wanted to clarify about the additional
$20 million and our new funding stream. You know,just as a reminder, this is a
replacement of what the State took away, and we're not paying all of our bills this
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FC-21 October 19,2021
year because we didn't have that revenue. So while yes, we can definitely have a
discussion about how we're going to direct it. We just have to keep the big
picture in mind.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Sako. Thank you,
Ms. Lee Loy. Kona? Going back to Kona.
MR. BROWN: I don't see anyone's mic on, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I have a few things to say.
Ms. Kimball, do you want to say anything else before I speak?
MS. KIMBALL: Chair, if you would like to. I'd like to make a motion to
postpone, but I don't know if you want to contribute to the discussion before I
make that motion.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I would. I would like to say a couple of
things first.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, if you just return it to me then when you're done.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you. Okay, well I appreciate
the conversation today. I appreciate the bill. The bill is important. It allows us to
make up the funds that we've lost.
Today's discussion was good. What I got from our testifier, Ms. Donoho, I think
that really sums this up well, is if we can't collect in full, then our funding source
that we're trying to make up for is going to be limited, and that really pushes back
to how we collect, and who we collect from, and what that mechanism is. She
mentioned something called AlltheRooms.com, and I would be hopeful—because
at this point, I believe that Planning is in charge of our short-term vacation rentals,
that they are at least looking at this online source, and they're doing as much as
they can to start tracking this. Because we have known that this CTAT (County
Transient Accommodation Tax) has been available to us, if we do legislation; but
more so, it's depending on who we can tax from. So is Planning aware of this?
Are they tracking this?
MS. SAKO: They are aware of it. Just to clarify, also it's a subscription. It's not
just something you go online to do; you have to pay for it. They do have
somethingI believe they are paying for. So they are looking at all the various
options. And then part of that will also depend on, through the RFP, the
enforcement piece, you know, if it seems reasonable to contract that out or not.
Otherwise, you know, I mean if we're going to do it in-house, then definitely
we'll be looking into those programs.
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FC-21 October 19,2021
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Because I mean basically
collections based on the data, we don't have the data, we cannot collect in full,
and then we're shorting ourselves. So there has to be a strong tie between
Planning and Finance, and you've touched on that so far, that's pretty keyed to
this conversation.
I wanted to ask, TAT was not specifically directed, correct? Not the County
TAT, but the actual the State TAT that we were getting a portion back. Was
that specifically directed to any area of our budget?
MS. SAKO: No, that was just a General Fund revenue that helped support all the
departments.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So to replace in a similar manner
with the County TAT would be to do a General Fund replacement,just like the
TAT was. I'm inclined to go on that route because it doesn't specify any one
area, but allows these funds to be used across the board wherever they may be
needed. That's more my inclination. Steve, did you get back a number on
what ?
MR. HUNT: I'll try to get that for you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, and try get that for me.
Ms. Donoho, I wanted to follow up with you. I mean, where in your eyes do you
think the County could made some strides as far as getting ahold of our short-term
vacation rental numbers and data? Where would be our best step? Because, I
mean, you pulled some numbers out, and you're obviously you're on a track
that was pretty solid as far as nailing down how to get the most bang out of our
buck.
(Note: At this time, Stephani Donoho came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
MS. DONOHO: Thank you for that question. I'm not advocating necessarily,
that the County purchase just directly from this platform. But there are data
aggregator platforms that can be used. You know, it's hard sometimes, and we
have the same problem at the Resort Association, when we don't directly own the
asset. So a short-term vacation rental, even that is an allowable use, for example
in Waikoloa Resort, or Mauna Lani Resort, or Mauna Kea, we might not know
how often that property is rented, how much it's rented for, and so I think it's
going to be very, very important for the County to have a process in place where
that it is gathered.
We use currently the STR(Smith Travel Research), it's Smith Travel Research is
someone that we report our data to. I see HTA (Hawai`i Tourism Authority) does
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FC-21 October 19,2021
a vacation rental report every month on what the occupancy looks like for
vacation rentals, but I'm not certain how they're doing, you know, if they're
touching vacation rental property, or is that like their visitor plan inventory, is a
self-reported process.
So eliminating, to answer your question overall, eliminating any barriers between
cross-communication with the departments thank you for Corporation Counsel
Strance, I really appreciate knowing that Finance and Planning, and R&D, and
everybody who might be touching a component of this very important revenue
source recognizes the role that they need to play. Because that's the biggest thing
I think we can do as a County, is make certain we're not creating unintentional
barriers that keep us from doing what we need to do.
I completely understand Deanna Sako's comments about these are projections,
and that's why I shared what our forecasted budget numbers are for 2022. As she
accurately described, none of us know exactly what's coming, but I really believe
that Hawaii County gets one big shot at making certain this happens fairly and
equitably, and that the money gets invested in the ways that the County wants to
see it invested.
So I thank everyone for their comments, and thank you for allowing me to
attend the full meeting and participate in this process. I'm happy if it does move
forward into additional Committee hearings. I'm happy to have one-on-one
conversations with anyone. I've done that already with Ms. Kimball and
Mr. Richards, since she was the bill's introducer and Mr. Richards is the primary
Council Member for our district.
But I am very grateful that Hawaii County is in this process. Having previously
worked for the County, I know I've been trying since 2008 to get a real sense of
how many TAT licensed holders are there for Hawaii Island. I know it is a
difficult task, so I thank everyone who is involved in this.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Donoho. Last
thing, we touched on collections. I mean, County levels, so—well, the State is
not going to collect this and give it back. We have to, you know, in some sort
collect this and find a platform to allow the people to pay their taxes. And you
know what, you touched on it, Maile David, but that's really important to this.
Because it could lead to more positions. If we don't collect, we don't collect,
period. So can you just, I mean, dig in a little about that?
MS. SAKO: So that's why we're kind of looking at different areas statewide with
the enforcement piece, because we do realize how important it is. So they've seen
a couple demos just to make sure there's some products out there that will meet
our needs. So in term of basic needs and training, like the total revenues collected
for that month and then times them by the three percent, and allowing them to
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FC-21 October 19,2021
automatically pay that online, that piece, you know, there are multiple vendors.
There's not as many that do the enforcement piece. So how many staff we need is
going to depend how automated the system is and whether we contract out the
enforcement. So we don't want to grow government unnecessarily, but we
definitely want to have staff in place to make sure it's equitable to everyone,
which is I think everyone's concern. It's that enforcement piece of making sure
everyone's paying.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That is strange, yeah. Because, I mean, the
State handed us this as a way to make up for our TAT that we have lost, and yet
threw it back in our hands as far as how to collect, how to enforce. I mean, that's
huge,just those two aspects alone.
MS. SAKO: Yeah, the Act actually prohibited the State from collecting on our
behalf.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That was very beautifully done on the
State's behalf, wasn't it? Yeah. Steve, you have a number for TAT collected.
This is TAT. Not a County TAT, but the original TAT for the State.
MR. HUNT: Correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: What was that number that Hawaii Island,
or our County of Hawaii ?
MR. HUNT: Hawaii County. And I'll give you two sets of numbers, because
one is TAT and one is TOT.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. HUNT: Which is the timeshare contribution.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. HUNT: So on TAT, Hawaii County, for Fiscal Year 2021, which is the
most I have recent on, was $41,961,516. The TOT was $1,996,895.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow, so almost—well, say about
$42, $43 million that we produced in TAT that goes to the State.
MR. HUNT: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We get zero back, and now we've been
allowed to further increase people's taxes for staying here on the island, which I
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FC-21 October 19,2021
think is good, but at the same time it's still more tax on visitors and residents
alike. Is there a way for residents to not pay this tax?
MS. SAKO: That will be a question for Judge Strance.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward
to address the members of the Committee.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Judge Strance, is there a way for residents
to not pay this tax if f County residents ? Because this has been on my mind
since day one when I saw this come up, can County residents not pay this tax?
MS. STRANCE: Ms. Strance, Corporation Counsel. I'm not prepared to give
individual legal advice to taxpayers. I don't know the answer to the question.
But tax law tends to be fairly complicated, and I would hate to give a blanket
answer, but it's a general statement, if there's a tax imposed, people are expected
to pay it.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Is the decision rested within the confines of
this bill in front of us, whether we choose or not to impose this tax on residents of
the State of Hawaii, or more so, visitors to the State of Hawaii? Is there a
possibility for us to do that? It's not a tax question.
MS. STRANCE: I would have to look into that a little bit more. But the
Transient Accommodation Tax—and we've been pretty careful in the way that
this bill has been drafted to mirror the State's tax in terms of who is obligated to
pay it. Once we stray very far from the model that the State has set up, then there
may be unintended consequences that we haven't thought through.
So since the first bill was introduced, there's been a distillation process over time,
where the bills have become more and more tailored and tied to the Hawaii
Revised Statute construct. And so this is aTransient Accommodation Tax is a
particular type of use. It's based upon the type of use, and so once you start
slicing out for the same use, some people have to pay it and some people don't
have to pay it, it opens up a can of worms that I'm certainly not prepared to talk
about today.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I mean,just common-sense reason
I'm asking. We the residents of Hawaii County and all the counties of the State
of Hawaii already pay our taxes. We already put in to the pot. We live here. We
get taxed every day for living here, and we put our funds towards everything that
we see as government-funded. It's all taxpayer-funded.
So on the back end of that, it's hard for me to swallow why the taxpayers also
have to pay for the impacts of the visitor industry. Because we are impacted by
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FC-21 October 19,2021
the visitor industry, period. So that's really the reason I'm asking. You know,
we're basically taxing the residents two times. We're going to say, "The visitors
are going to come. We're going to tax them, and if you go partake in this industry
on the island that you live on that you call home, we're going to tax you, too,"I
have a hard time with that. It's hard for me to swallow. It's never made sense to
me that we pay these fees, because we live here and we support these industries in
one way or another. Whether it's through our work that we do, whether it's
through government, whether it's through taxes, we do already.
So I'd be very interested to understand the ins and outs of that conversation, and
how that applies, and if we can or cannot. I'm going to need a follow-up on that,
Ms. Strance. Deanna, do you have anything to add to that? Do you know
anything that I don't know, or maybe Ms. Strance doesn't know, regarding
revolving around this?
MS. SAKO: I was going to say in general State law trumps County law, so I
think if there's not an exemption already established in State law, I'm not sure we
can exempt it. But I agree with Judge Strance, it is something that would have to
be researched. It's not something that's known at this time. But in general, I
would say State law trumps County.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, there's always the State precedent,
which we always follow, but we write and we impose the tax at the County level,
so that does open up possible leeway in there somewhere.
MS. SAKO: Yeah. Well, we do impose it at the County level, it's only with the
authorization granted by the State, so I think that's how they tie it together. But
I'm sure Judge Strance and her team can maybe look into it a little more.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Well, I appreciate the answers.
Again, I'm just asking. Common sense, you know, why do we tax our residents
on a tax specific like this? So I'd love to have an answer back from our
Corporation Counsel, sooner rather than later, so I can make a decision about
where I stand on something.
But yeah, that was a good discussion today. Council Members, I appreciate it.
I'm going to go back to Ms. Kimball. I know you wanted to make the motion.
Before you make that motion, I would say I would like to see this bill move
forward one way or the other, because I think in the end we're all going to say yes
to this bill. It's just a matter of what it looks like when we get to the end. I yield
for now. Go ahead, Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to add a couple of comments
based on what you said.
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FC-21 October 19,2021
You know, I'm certainly not an attorney, much less a tax attorney, but I think
Judge Strance was heading in the right direction, when the TAT is a usage fee,
and if you say that it's a fee for some people and it's not for other people, you
begin to get into a constitutional issue. I would venture to say that is something
we could not do as much as all of us would like to, because of potential
constitutional violations.
The other thing I wanted to draw everyone's attention to, on page four, the section
having to do with the Director of Finance's abilities to enforce this article,
particularly Section 5, (Section 2- . Director of Finance, subsection (a)(5)) we
talked a lot about the compliance requirements. One of the added benefits of this
piece of legislation, is it provides something that we haven't had in the past,
which is a way to reconcile our STVR(Short-Term Vacation Rental) registrations
with the TAT. And so I think that is an important provision. I know we've talked
about it a little bit, but I wanted to make sure that was called to attention.
But the final thing, the latest number I have on the latest average room rate for our
County is about$280 a night. So when we talk about three percent, we're talking
about$9 a night, which I know you know, some of these places is $40 just for
parking overnight, where there's a resort fee of$30. So as much as we all hate
raising taxes, it is a pretty nominal fee given the benefits.
With that, what I would—it is my preference to keep a working bill in Committee
until it's ready to go forward to the Council, so I'm going to make the motion to
postpone to the November 2nd Finance Committee meeting.
Motion to Postpone: Ms. Kimball moved to postpone Bill 81 to
November 2, 2021. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Council Members, any discussion on the
motion?
MS. LEE LOY: Yes, on the postponement.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, on the motion to postpone?
MS. LEE LOY: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. And thank you, Ms. Kimball, for this motion,
because I just wanted to lay the foundation of some of the information that I
would like to see, you know, over the next two weeks.
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FC-21 October 19,2021
So, Deanna,just a better snapshot of where we stand fiscally with all of our
expenditures and revenues. I know you mentioned a slide or some type of
presentation. That would be great. You know, what our OPEB payments would
look like; some information from the Council on revenue as far as our GE
collection; and just that bigger fiscal picture to help us understand where all the
taxes are. You know, in my book this is what we have: GE, fuel, real property
tax, TAT twice, so that's five different taxes. And so I'm just looking out for the
community to kind of get a big picture of how we collect our revenues and how
we're expending them here. Thank you, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else on
the motion to postpone?
MR. BROWN: I don't see any more lights, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Brown. Then for me,
Heather, I do not support your motion. I'd like to see this move forward to
Council. You can hold it in Council, but at that point it's ready to go. I really
don't think that this bill is going to get voted down. It will change form slightly,
I'm guessing, but I don't think it's going to get voted down. So, that's my two
cents.
But with that, barring any further discussion, there is a motion on the floor to
postpone Bill No. 81 to the Committee meetings on November 2nd, all in favor?
Vote on Motion The motion to postpone Bill 81 to November 2, 2021,
to Postpone: was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Richards,
and Villegas —8.
Noes: Committee Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder— 1.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So the motion to postpone has been
found in favor, and I think that brings us to the end of our discussion for Bill 81.
Ms. Donoho, I do appreciate you being online. If you're still there, thank you
very much. I appreciate your information. Ms. Sako, thank you. Mr. Hunt, thank
you very much. And, Mr. Clerk, if we could move on to our next order of
business.
MR. BROWN: Sorry, Chair,just to clarify, you want me to start at the top of the
agenda?
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FC-21 October 19,2021
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes,please.
Return to Order The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business.
of Business:
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
(Note: Comm. 84.3 was taken up previously, out of order.)
Comm. 30.17: REPORT OF FUND TRANSFERS AUTHORIZED: SEPTEMBER 1 — 15, 2021
From Controller Kay Oshiro, dated September 20, 2021.
Vote on Comm. 30.17: Mr. Inaba moved to close file on Comm. 30.17.
Filed Second by Ms. Lee Loy and was carried by the
following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Richards,
Villegas, and Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Moving onto Communication 31.21.
Comm. 31.21: REPORT OF CHANGE ORDERS AUTHORIZED: SEPTEMBER 1 — 15, 2021
From Finance Director Deanna Sako, dated September 23, 2021, transmitting the
above report pursuant to Hawaii County Code Section 2-12.3.
Motion to Close File: Mr. Inaba moved to close file on Comm. 31.21.
Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Council Members, any discussion on
Communication 31.21?
MS. KIMBALL: Chair, this is Council Member Kimball.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Kimball, go ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Do we still have Director Sako in the room?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, she's still here. Did you want to
come up?
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FC-21 October 19,2021
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. KIMBALL: I would just like an update on where we are with the Rental
Assistance Program. I see that was one of the big changes. And I know we had a
lot of outstanding funds there, are we making some headway getting that
distributed?
MS. SAKO: Yes. I believe Housing did meet all of their spenddown deadlines.
And the reduction in the contract, I think it was so it could be shifted to a different
account and program. There was ERAP, which is the Emergency Rental
Assistance Program One, the Emergency Rental Program Two, and then now we
have the Housing Assistance Program—so those that own their home. So, I
believe it's just being shifted into some of those other programs, but I'll confirm
with Housing before the next meeting. But I believe they did meet all of their
deadlines.
MS. KIMBALL: Great. Thank you, Director. I yield, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Anyone else in
Kona? Okay, hearing none. Ms. Sako, I have a question for you. The change
order for Big Island Scrap Metal, for the acceptance and recycling of propone
tanks, it looks like this is the option year beginning July 1, 2021, but there's no
cost at all. What's the deal with that?
MS. SAKO: A lot of these are price term agreements, so we only pay for utilize
the service.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MS. SAKO: And in that particular one, I'm not sure how the payment is, if it's
like per tank, or weight, or what it is. But we pay them as it's utilized.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Because I actually went to recycle a
propane tank. I didn't know where to go, so I went to the County landfill. I threw
it in the bin, and no one caught me. No, I'm kidding. No, I talked to the guys at
the scrap metal facility, and they'll take them. But they cannot—they have to be
open or have a hole in them. But then if we recycle it for free for our County
residents. And so I'm just wonderingI'm kind of wondering about this
program, and if they're taking full tanks, they're opening tanksI mean, what the
basis is. And we're not even using it looks like.
MS. SAKO: No, we—so again, our price term agreements is we're agreeing to a
price ahead of time; and then as we use it, they bill us.
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FC-21 October 19,2021
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MS. SAKO: But if the contract doesn't have an amount, it just means that we
haven't agreed or encumbered that money. So when we do a price term
Agreement, it specifies that we may use it zero, so it just depends if we use it. I
think that one we do utilize it. But I can get more information from DEM
(Department of Environmental Management).
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It's not a life not a gamechanger, but I'm
just wondering about it. Because I think I've had people asked me too, "Where
do I take a propane tank when it's done?" I mean, it happens a lot. Okay, if you
have information on that, I'd appreciate it. Thank you, Ms. Sako.
Okay. Thank you, Council. Okay, no further discussion? Okay, hearing none.
We have a motion on the floor to close file on Communication 31.21, all in favor?
Vote on Comm. 31.21: Mr. Inaba moved to close file on Comm. 31.21.
Filed Second by Ms. Lee Loy and was carried by the
following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Richards,
Villegas, and Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Next order of business, sir.
Comm. 405: 2020-2021 ANNUAL REPORT FROM THE KAIL,UA VILLAGE BUSINESS
IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT
From Jay Rubenstein, Board President, of the Kailua Village Business
Improvement District, dated September 9, 2021.
Postponed: October 5, 2021
(Note: There is a motion by Mr. Inaba, seconded by Ms. Villegas to close file on
Comm. 405.)
(Note: At this time, Ross Wilson, representing Kailua Village
Improvement District, came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So, Mr. Clerk, there's no motion
needed. We can just go right into our discussion?
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FC-21 October 19,2021
MR. BROWN: That is correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much, Mr. Brown. Okay,
Council Members, discussion on Communication 405. And I do see, I think,
Mr. Rubenstein joining us today via Zoom. Is that correct? Ross Wilson?
MS. VILLEGAS: Ross Wilson.
MR. WILSON: Jay Rubenstein broke a tooth, and as we speak he's in the
Emergency Dentistry in Waimea.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I hope he gets better. Well, thank you for
joining us today.
MR. WILSON: You're welcome. Happy to help.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, Mr. Wilson is here to answer any
questions. Kona Council Members, I'm going to go right to you. Do you want to
start off the discussion?
MS. VILLEGAS: Yes,please.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, Ms. Villegas, go ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Thank you,
Mr. Wilson, for being here today. And I'm sorry to hear about the tooth, Ouch,
dental procedures are always painful. Thank you for being here today in lieu of
Mr. Rubenstein and for your provision of this Kailua Business Improvement
District Annual Report for the Fiscal Year 2020 to 2021. I believe everyone has a
copy of the report in your pinky folder. And I'm going ahead and turn this over to
you, Mr. Wilson, to share the talking points and get everybody up to date.
MR. WILSON: Well, the Kailua Village Business Improvement District works
with two county departments primarily. We work with the Finance Department,
and we work with the Police Department. And I've got to give a shoutout to both
departments. All of you Council Members should know that they work at the
highest levels, and I, we, I have nothing but praise for the Finance Department
Police Department.
As a bit of background, the Kailua Village Business Improvement District was
formed in 2007. It's one of three Business Improvement District in the State.
Fort Street has one, Waikiki has the other, and we were the third that was started
in the State.
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FC-21 October 19,2021
Our focus are clean and safe initiatives, and we enhance, and we do not replace
County services. The organization is healthy as you can see by the report. Let me
see, we focus on landscaping, cleaning, and maintenance, and we also focus on
security. Our biggest issue in the village continues to be homeless issues, like a
lot of downtown areas.
2020 we experienced a lot of the pandemic impacts. As you went through the
Annual Report, you saw the number of businesses that were closed. 2021 started
out moving in the right direction, and summer was actually good. Businesses
came back, and people started to go to work again, and we got healthy. And
unfortunately in the Fall business tapers off, and Governor Ige messaging for
visitors not to come, really threw the bottom out for a lot of the businesses in
Kailua Village.
Right now, again we're back to businesses are struggling. So we're looking for a
sense of normalcy pretty soon, as our COVID numbers decrease. I'm happy to go
through any part of the Annual Report that you have, and I can answer any
questions on the Kailua Village Business Improvement District and Historic
Kailua Village.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Villegas, did you want to continue?
MS. VILLEGAS: Excuse me, yes. I first off wanted to thank Mr. Wilson for
recognizing Finance and the Police Department. This year we transitioned. Our
community policing Sergeant is now Mr. Michael Hardie, Sergeant Michael
Hardie, and he has been incredible to work with, as well as the rest of his
community policing team. They are active. They are around. They are engaged.
They are personable, and humble, and kind; also, getting things done, following
through, and enforcing many of the laws and the rules as they relate to the
Business Improvement District. So I wanted to echo that mahalo and just share
that gratitude and appreciation. I have enjoyed working with the Business
Improvement District, and getting to know a lot more about the ins and outs, and
the nuances, especially in this most interesting time.
But I'm going to go ahead and yield to any of my colleagues, if they have any
questions here. I know last year we went through—had some—kind of—we dug
down really deep in order for me to get a better understanding. And I'm just
grateful for the organization and the way that they continue to improve and serve
our community in this capacity.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Anyone else in
Kona?
MR. INABA: Chair? Holeka.
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FC-21 October 19,2021
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mr. Inaba, go ahead.
MR. INABA: Aloha, Ross. Thank you for being here today; and mahalo to you
folks for bringing together this presentation. I think perhaps if you could just
share real quick about what you folks are doing with regards to homelessness,
because I think oftentimes we know it's a combine effort, but I think it would
be this is a great opportunity to highlight the work that you folks do contribute
to with regards to the homeless problem down Alii Drive.
MR. ROSS: We contract with Block by Block, and they provide security services
in the village, and they're walking door to door through the village. Our security
services, what we don't have, any enforcement. So if there's criminal activity or
activity that should not happen, our security services call the police. As I said, we
have a great working relationship with the community police, and leadership in
the Police Department. Everybody wants a safe community, and we're working
hand-in-hand.
In addition to that, we have an outreach coordinator, Kehau Gomes, and she
works with not only with community police, the security that we have in the
village, but also the providers, to provide services for the homeless individuals.
And we interact both with Susan Kunz from the Housing Department and Sharon
Hirota. We sit in all of the committees. We interact with Chambers Homeless
Committee; and we provide the statistics for a lot of the groups, not only the
Chambers Homeless Committee, but also West Hawaii Community Health
Center so that they can apply for grants. It's a work in progress.
We've taken out areas that were friendly to homeless. We've landscaped. We
also have cleaned areas like Niumalu Beach so that it's more inviting to both
visitors and locals and less inviting to homeless, and we're constantly looking at
solutions to the problem. What we're trying to do is find solutions and start to
peel away some of the issues.
We're working with the County, and we're excited about Kukuiola. As we can
provide housing, we can start to take some of the homeless off the streets.
Unfortunately, Council Member Inaba, we have about 100 chronic homeless that
really cause all of the problems, and the chronic homeless are those that either
don't want help—actually don't want to help. The either have alcohol, or drug, or
mental health issues, or all the above. And we've worked with the Department
Health to try and find stabilization beds. It's a work in progress, and in the words
of somebody else, it takes a village to make it work.
MR. INABA: Great. Thank you so much for providing that update. I guess I'll
just end by sending a mahalo out on behalf of this body to those workers who are
on the ground. Those who are pressure-washing the sidewalks down there,
patrolling, because they're really, you know, what's keeping our community safe,
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FC-21 October 19,2021
and allowing a pleasant experience for both our kama`aina and malihini alike. So
thank you again for your presentation today. Chair, I yield.
MR. ROSS: Council Member Inaba, one last thing. The other thing we've
done is when there's criminal activity in the village, we work with the
Prosecutor's Office to geo-ban them from the area, so they can't come into the
village, the confines, for a year. So, we're all working together and trying to be
solutions-oriented, how's that?
MR. INABA: That's awesome. Mahalo.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba.
MS. DAVID: Chair?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. David, go ahead.
MS. DAVID: Thank you very much. Mr. Wilson, I just wanted to say
also mahalo nui to you and your organization for all the years of hard work. I
think you folks have a long way. You've demonstratedI believe when we
created—we voted on creating this Kailua Village Business Improvement District,
I think I was working for Council Member Pilago at that time.
And I believe—in hindsight, I'm listening to you and your report, and thinking
back when it was first formed. You folks have done an extraordinary job in
Kailua Village. Every time when I do drive by, I see everything. I see the
improvements, and I see all the hard work that you folks are doing. And I just
wanted to say I'm just really proud and thankful for you and the Village Design,
the organization, because I think you folks a prime example of more Business
Improvement Districts being established on this island, because it's very helpful
and it's very community-oriented and beneficial.
So just wanted to say mahalo nui for everything you folks have done over the
years because you folks have done an excellent job. And I yield, mahalo.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Are there any other
discussion from Kona?
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah. Chair?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mr. Richards, go ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, thank you. Thanks, Mr. Wilson, for being here. And
just from the economic standpoint, it's been a tough, almost two years now, year
and a half. Your village, have we lost a lot of businesses?
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FC-21 October 19,2021
MR. ROSS: We lost a lot of businesses. The small mom and pop retail left. We
lost restaurants. We started to see at the beginning of this year some movement
and others filling their spots. We're not back to where we were by any means, but
as you see from the report, there's new businesses and there's some new retail.
Probably what was most striking, in the middle of the pandemic, to walk through
the Kona Inn Shopping Village and see how devasted that was.
You know, if you look through that report, I forget what month it was, maybe
April, where we had 400 visitors in the month. You know, if you stop the flow of
money into these establishments, either retail or restaurants, there's only so long
that they can last. The good news is it looks like the worst is over, and it's
starting to move forward again. So, fingers crossed.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Yeah, I saw those numbers and it's almost shocking.
You think it's a typo. But anyway, I appreciate that. Thanks. Chair, yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Any further
discussion from Kona? Okay, hearing none. There's no lights on in Hilo.
Mr. Wilson, I appreciate your time today. Thank you for the presentation. Good
to see some hard numbers and hard data to look at. I understand where you guys
have come and where you're headed.
Also, I see you have a very good board. I mean, I see Toby Taniguchi on there. I
see Riley Smith. You got some good people on your board so that should
definitely help you guys along, as far as making some progress as we look into the
oncoming years. Thank you very much, sir. I appreciate your time.
MR. ROSS: You're welcome. Aloha.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Aloha. Okay. Mr. Clerk, we have a
motion on the floor by, I think, Ms. Villegas, and a second by Mr. Inaba, correct,
from last time?
MR. BROWN: Sorry, no. The motion is by Mr. Inaba, seconded by
Ms. Villegas, to close file on Communication 405.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Oh, thank you. Okay, we have the motion
on the floor by Mr. Inaba and a second by Ms. Villegas to close file on
Communication 405, all in favor?
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FC-21 October 19,2021
Vote on Comm. 405: The motion to close file on Comm. 405 was carried by
Filed the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Richards,
Villegas, and Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: I believe that takes us to Bill 80.
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
Bill 80: AMENDS CHAPTER 2, OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983
(2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO EXPENDITURES
FROM FUND FOR THE WORKFORCE INNOVATION AND
OPPORTUNITY ACT PROGRAM
Provides a clerical amendment with no change to policy or function.
Reference: Comm. 448
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to recommend passage of Bill 80
on first reading. Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Council Members, I hope we have
Ms. Kunz on in our Zoom meeting; if not, we can get her on. Oh, I see
somebody.
(Note: At this time, Housing and Community Development Specialist VI
Royce Shiroma came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. SHIROMA: Oh, Ms. Kunz cannot make it to the meeting, so if you have
any questions, I can answer them for her.
CHR KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. And is this
Royce Shiroma, for the record?
MR. SHIROMA: Yes, Royce, yeah.
CHR KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you, Mr. Shiroma.
Council Members, any questions about Bill 80? Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead.
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FC-21 October 19,2021
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Royce, this does seem straightforward,
but I'm wondering if you could provide a little bit more clarification here.
MR. SHIROMA: Sure. Initially it was just a housekeeping change to eliminate
the Office of Housing. As you know, we're transitioning the program, the WIOA
(Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act)Program to the R&D (Research and
Development) Department. So we kind of looked at it, and we felt that whole
paragraph doesn't really match that section called"Expenditures from Fund," so
we eliminated the whole paragraph altogether.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah. Thank you. I thought it had something to do with
the transition. And so, Director Sako, maybe your opinion here, too. Is there a
need to specify Research and Development and their leadership now that they are
going to be responsible for the Workforce Development Board, which sets the
Action Plan for the WIOA monies?
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: I think there probably needs to be someone mentioned as to who is
kind of in-charge of that fund, and I do get it that we're kind of in a transition
right now. So there's actually, I believe, future legislation, where there's a
dividing line of, I think, Housing is taking up to Fiscal Year 2020 program funds,
and then after that, R&D. So at some point, I think we need to clarify. I think it
would be good to have a department associated with that. With the fund, whether
it's expenditures or just maintained somewhere in the language.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Director. And I know that this bill was
promulgated by Housing. Your opinion, and maybe Judge Strance too, should we
be putting a pin in this until we get a few more of those details sorted out?
MS. SAKO: I think Housing and R&D have worked it out. I thinkI didn't get
a chance to review the bill, but will take a look at it before the next meeting.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Chair, if I might, I'd like to from all my other
colleagues, as well. But I'd like to actually postpone this measure. Happy to
work with R&D and Housing on this; only reason why is becauseoh, here is
Director Adams.
(Note: At this time, Research and Development Director Douglass Adams
came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Hi, Director. We were just talking story about your office
now being the home for Workforce Community Development Board, and was just
looking for opinion from Finance Director, Judge Strance, but now yourself,
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FC-21 October 19,2021
about I mean, should any of this language actually be updated to mention your
department given the transition?
MR. ADAMS: We `re in the process, and Mr. Shiroma will correct me where I'm
inaccurate and unprecise, but in the conversations with Office of Housing and
Community Development, the removal of the specific department doesn't actually
cause any harm. The Mayor is still the individual that's responsible for the
funding being expended under the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act as
it is provided to us from the State's Department of Labor and Industrial Relations
Workforce Development Division.
And so we operate under the guide of the Mayor, the Mayor has the
responsibility. And this just creates the flexibility for whichever department on
who will be managing it. There's no problem that we're going to be doing it. It
creates the corporate firewall between us in the event it hasn't had responsibilities
for some of the programs. That way, there's no issues between on who has
responsibility for the funding and who's actually implementing the funding under
a particular program. Royce, is that your understanding, as well?
MR. SHIROMA: Yes, that is my understanding. And we also discussed it with
Corporation Counsel, and that was their interpretation, also. That we didn't need
to be on there. This was more an item that we could take out.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for that. Royce, follow-up question, any rules,
regulationI mean if we're eliminating this, it's safe to assume that any rules,
regulations, developed by your office as it relates to this particular program, do
those disappear?
MR. SHIROMA: No, they do not. That area is just part of the entire section,
Article 39, for the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act Program, which
specifies that it's you know, like Mr. Adams stated, that it's under the Mayor,
under the County, and we are responsible to follow the program rules and
regulations. So that was just one little area that we kind of cleaned up a little bit.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay.
MR. SHIROMA: The overall section, the article, explains everything.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Royce, for your patience, for being here today
and for those details. Thank you, Director Adams. It seems like things are still in
the formation phase. And as more details become clearer, we'll have subsequent
legislation to support whatever has been decided. Director, is that the case?
MR. ADAMS: It is our understanding that this would—it is frankly my
understanding that this would take care of any of the transition work. The other
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FC-21 October 19,2021
transition work that's required is at a departmental level, and making sure that
we're managing the human resources and financial piece of this, but there wasn't
necessarily legislation that was going to be required. So, that's my understanding
at the moment.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. I'll be following up with you on this. I
just see a lot of opportunity for us to be leveraging these funds to be supporting
local jobs, programs, and further economic development. So, thank you for your
work on this. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Kona,
discussion?
MR. BROWN: No lights are on at this time, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Okay. Well, I think
Ms. Kierkiewicz brought up a good point. Yeah, so there might be some
possible amendments coming forward to this. For now, is there any motion
besides the main motion? Okay, well we have a motion on the floor to pass
Bill 80 from Committee to Council. All in favor, Council Members?
Vote on Bill 80: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 80 on
(Approved) first reading was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members David, Inaba, Kierkiewicz,
Kimball, Lee Loy, Richards, Villegas, and
Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Chung— 1.
Excused: None.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That does bring us to the end of our
agenda, I believe.
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 3:03 p.m., Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to adjourn
MENT: the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members David, Inaba, Kierkiewicz,
Kimball, Lee Loy, Richards, Villegas, and
Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Chung— 1.
Excused: None.
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