Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN RAWEEMC 2021/10/19 2020-2022Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, Energy, and Environmental Management 11th Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawai i October 19, 2021 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, ORDER: Energy and Environmental Management was called to order at 3:15 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair. ROLL CALL - Present: Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Vice Chair Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member (via videoconference from Hilo, came in later) Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (came in later) Absent & Excused: Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 436: REQUESTS AN UPDATE FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT REGARDING WASTEWATER DIVISION PRIORITIES, CHALLENGES, AND SOLUTIONS From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated September 27, 2021. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to close file on Comm. 436. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. RICHARDS: Ms. Kierkiewicz. RAWEEMC-11 October 19, 2021 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Mahalo nui to the department for being here today, and providing us with a very comprehensive package that you're going to tick through. Just wanted to get a temperature check on where the departments specifically division is in prioritizing the numerous challenges that is laid before it. We heard a lot of really wonderful things during the budget planning process, and so just wanted to check in on where we are with those particular priorities. And see how we as a Council could be helpful with any of the initiatives that they are proposing. So with that, I do want to turn it over to our Director and Deputy of Environmental Management. Aloha. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Please, Mr. Mansour. (Note: At this time, Environmental Management Director Ramzi Mansour and Deputy Wastewater Division Chief Eric Takamura came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. MANSOUR: Aloha, Chairman, and Committee Members. Thank you, for giving us the opportunity to present to you the priorities, challenges, and solutions for our Wastewater Division. (Note: At this time, Mr. Mansour and Mr. Takamura provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the presentation, see the DVD copy of the proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or navigate to the Council's video archives online from the County's homepage at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A hard copy of the presentation is made a part of the record. See Comm. 436. 1.) MR. MANSOUR: With that, mahalo. And I'll open the table for discussion. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Director. That was a lot of information. Ms. Kierkiewicz. Oh, did we lose you? Oh, there we are. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Can you hear me, okay? CHR. RICHARDS: We can hear you terrific. Okay, so I'm going to let you kick this off. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I can't see you though, alright. And I also just wanted to note, here in the Hilo Council chambers we have one of our Environmental Management Commissioners Elyse Robinson. She was invited by the director to hear the presentation, and I know she has questions but most likely not here. They do have commission meetings, but she was very interested in the topic. So I just wanted to note she was here. Thank you, Director. I mean quick summary, the situation stinks big time. And there are just a lot of challenges that have plagued your department for a number Page 2 RAWEEMC-I I October 19, 2021 of decades. Appreciate you trying to think through how we come out of this, in a really fiscally responsible manner. I have a couple questions for you, as it relates to the funding streams. You mentioned USDA (United States Department of Agriculture), SRF (State Revolving Fund), WIFIA (Water Infrastructure Finance and Innovation Act), and that they're being a county match. I see that you have one WIFIA application pending, you are in fact supportive of pursuing these funding mechanism, correct? Because it does mean that there's less for the county to have to pay, for advancing projects. MR. MANSOUR: That is correct. That's only way of funding how a project is through these mechanisms, yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. And then you have a specific bullet call out, strict NEPA (National Environmental Policy Act) processes? Are you saying that if we don't go after these funds, there aren't those environmental reviews in place? MR. MANSOUR: It won't be as restrict as you have it. For example if you get a Federal funding you have to go through the NEPA process. If you don't get Federal funding you have to go through the State process, which is easier than going through the Federal process. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, so a lot more steps, hoops, to jump through is what I'm hearing? MR. MANSOUR: Yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. And then can you talk a little bit more about the incentives to developers, that you were talking about? Because the maps that you showcased, you know, very clear that there is a need to sewer more of Hawai i Island; get that. But what sort of tax incentives were you talking about or thinking about, for developers so that we can be sewering more of the island? MR. MANSOUR: Maybe something like, you know, you could work with them on waving certain taxes on the development itself. Definitely we need to navigate through what the statues allow and not allow, but I use this tax incentive as an example. But definitely they could be other incentives given to the developer to move forward and connect. Because it shows our credibility to Department of Health and EPA (Environmental Protection Agency). Here we are, if we don't allow for sewer connection we really going against the flow, everybody else's. And we cannot get to the 21" centuries if we cannot continue to put in these septic tanks, and allowing cesspools without having the idea of expanding the sewer collection system. So there's certain incentives we need to start partnering with the developers, and see what is that they need, and see if we can provide incentive for their needs. So to kind of open the door for communication with these developers and try to help Page 3 RAWEEMC-I I October 19, 2021 them overcome some of the roadblocks in lieu of, you know, put in a collection system or tie into our system. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you, Director. And I just want to flag for you that in earlier committee, this Council moved forward to the Council Resolution 241-21 you'll be getting a copy of that. It's about a housing strategic road map. You're a key player in all of this and ensuring that future subdivisions are potentially sewered, if there is a way that the county can invest that type of infrastructure, either solely or in collaboration with developers. So I do want to flag that for you, and make sure that you are contributing to that road map. Because it's critical to housing as well as economic development and healthcare needs of our community. You mentioned the enterprise fund, did you say if we had subsequent revenue coming in for the department to start something like this? MR. MANSOUR: Well that enterprise fund here and the wastewater definitely right now the rate payers, well we call them special fund. They get the service, they supposed to pay for the maintenance and upkeep of that facilities. But what we lack in is the capital improvement. All of our capital improvement projects does not come from the special fund, therefore we need to look at possibly connections fees, capacity fees, for the sewer and the line. So we need to start generating more revenue to be able to pay for the expansion and the replacement of these sewer collection systems, and that could fall under the enterprise fund definition. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So you said a lot of things, who are you having these conversations with? And when is the decision going to be made, as to what are we going to pursue as a county? MR. MANSOUR: Definitely we're working with our Corporation Counsel, and the Finance Department, and the Mayor's Office; and also some of the, you know, Commission itself. I believe the Environmental Commission had submitted a work plan or business model of how to start funding these. So they're working on it. So we're working with the Commission in trying to figure out what's the best way to move forward so we could bring something to you. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Timeframe? MR. MANSOUR: We actually had a meeting, we're going to have a meeting on the 27h. I know our Commission Chairman had shared with me at least a plan on the budgeting, and the funding. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. MR. MANSOUR: Our goal is—we'd be better equipped if this type of study is done by a private consultant to be able to tie it to the statute to the HRS ( Hawai` i Revised Statutes) and the Hawaii Administrative Rule. Because it definitely will Page 4 RAWEEMC-I I October 19, 2021 be an over taken task by the Commission and our staff, because literally I don't have the staff as we speak to be able to assign these tasks to. But we are vetting the process of, you know, having the Commission at least giving us they are an advisory committee so the idea is having—give us some, you know, options. But definitely the idea of hiring a third party that specializes in these types of studies it was vetted out with the Finance Department, and our Administration. And we're going to continue to try to pursue that. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. I think we would all be curious about the actual scope, before you engage a consultant. Just a few more questions related to personnel, how many engineers did you say you needed, and are they at higher levels? And is that why you're struggling at to fill those positions? MR. MANSOUR: Yes. Currently we have two engineers. One as an engineer, right? Is that right? Yeah, so we have Engineer III Level, and Engineer V level, that's all we have in our department. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And how many more did you say you needed? Are there open positions that need to be filled? MS. MANSOUR: Yes. We have another CE V, it's vacant, two Engineer IV is vacant, and these are the engineering positions we have, and these three, even if we fill them up it's not enough for the entire island and the projects we have. So we're working on to the budget preparation and my Division Chief and Deputy Chief are looking at the resource allocation and the needs for additional staffing. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So these engineers are obviously going to be working on projects, and so our design projects are not getting done because you don't have these positions or existing engineers having to do more. Is this an opportunity where you're going out and contracting? MR. MANSOUR: Well here's the challenge, is if there is anything within that current PD (position description), our public servants do, we cannot sub it out to private sectors. So we've been asking for service augmentation to allow us to hire private sector to come in and augment the needs. But because of Konno decision, that did not go. We cannot be able to go through that. So it has to be project driven and we have a consultant that doing projects. We are working on $17 million this year on projects that have already been spoken for and consultants already on board. But we don't have the in-house staff to manage the consultant and the projects, and that's where the dilemma is. Is you already have contracts out with the consultants, but we don't have the staffing that could become a project manager to oversee the process. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. And maybe if you could help walk us through some of the opportunities to build up that capacity internally. So that folks are having Page 5 RAWEEMC-I I October 19, 2021 that experience, and can apply for and fill those higher level positons. Is that possible, is there a pathway? MR. MANSOUR: The problem is we don't have the staff to even grow within. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, at the lowest entry level, you mean, right? MR. MANSOUR: Yeah. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. And then I was curious about the tools, because I remember doing a couple of tours with former Director Kucharski pre-COVID, and just talking story with a lot of the folks there. A lot of the work is being done manually, assuming that at this point you've upgraded to a lot of those systems and have incorporated technology. MR. MANSOUR: That is correct. The asset management for example, the reason our equipment as you've seen it from the Hilo, there's no way for our current staff to be able to do the work orders and follow-up on the maintenance. So the asset management, allows the operators now to insert the data and work orders. And it gives them a reminder and they become accountability tools to make sure. And this is required by the Department of Health. And that's why we are working with the Department of Health on the current administrative order consent. These are the tools, that's going to allow us manage better in the future. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Director. And then the last question I had, mahalo nui for the update on EDA (Economic Development Administration) grant for the programmatic EIS (Environmental Impact Statement) for Puna Wastewater Treatment Facilities. Are you going to be able to meet that deadline, coming to a decision by the 22nd? That's just a few days from now? MR. MANSOUR: Yes. Maybe my Deputy Chief could add to it. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah, Eric, I'd love to hear from you. Don't be shy, hi. I can't hear you, could you turn on your mic, please. MR. TAKAMURA: What was deadline, December 2023? CHR. RICHARDS: Please identify yourself for the record. MR. TAKAMURA: Excuse me, I'm Eric Takamura, Deputy Division Chief for Wastewater. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Eric. So this particular grant, is there a deadline in which we need to be able expend the funding and complete the study? MR TAKAMURA: Yeah, I believe the deadline is December 2023. Page 6 RAWEEMC-I I October 19, 2021 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, so are we on track then? Because this was something that was awarded to our county earlier this year, are we on track to—as you say in the presentation, select a consultant by the end of this week. MR. TAKAMURA: The schedule is on track, whether we can meet the December 2023 deadline is the question. So we wanted to get to a point by next June 2022, so we can exercise the State's CIP (Capital Improvement Project) grant for Pahoa. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Right. Because there was that additional $600,000 that was allocated for this, and we've talked about this study being used to inform how we program those dollars. I guess you're flagging something here for me, and so I'm curious what you see are potential barriers, impediments, for your department to be able to carry out this particular grant. Get the study done. Is the Planner V position if you're not able to fill that, is that an impediment and what are the other barriers? CHR. RICHARDS: Ms. Kierkiewicz, can we wrap it up, so we can get other Council Members? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yup, thank you. This is my last question, Chair. MR. TAKAMURA: Yeah, we were waiting for the Planner V, but since it's taking so long we're just going to proceed. So I probably will probably get involved in that project, as well as whatever staff can assist me. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Thank you so much, I really appreciate the update on that one. Chair, I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. And looking around here, Ms. Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Chair Richards. Something just came across my email feed, which is a notification of wastewater treatment incident from this morning in Hilo. Tragically we got an estimated volume of 2,096,068 gallons of sewage, and from what I can tell here that the pumps stopped working because of a power loss of some capacity. And that the effluent flumeter signal was lost due to electrical disruption, calcium hydrochloride tablets were deposit in the effluent channel, feed pumps were put back online in manual mode, and proper disinfection was restored by 9:07 a.m. And that there's been some back-up power source implemented, and now there are 12 signs posted around the Puhi Bay discharge area. While I'm not incredibly familiar with where Puhi Bay is, I'm assuming its closer to Hilo town. And I just been in Hilo last week, had lunch at Ponds and watched all the keiki play in the water there. I know that is a practice up and down all of Page 7 RAWEEMC-I I October 19, 2021 our coastlines. Whether or not there's signs or not, you know, kids are going to out and be jumping in the water. I justI mean this just kind of coincidently just popped up, and it's just such a testament to the challenge. That you guys are operating a broken system under that the best we can do is replace a power source, but we still end up with two million gallons entering our oceans. As Council Member Kierkiewicz said this is stinky business, it is doo-doo business. I've spent more time talking about crap literally, and still the answers evade us. And so thank you for pulling the band aid off of that. We have got to find solutions, I mean we've talked extensively over the last year about how do we do this? Is it energy saving performance contract? Is it P-3, public, private partnerships? How do we remove the barriers in order to identify the funding and get this work done? Unfortunately we aren't the only municipality going through it, and unfortunately our issues are so broad. But I have to be hopeful that there are some technologies. I mean this is an asset as well. This is water. Like the way we in the first world process our feces, actually is not the most conscious when it comes to huge gallons of water that get flushed with it. But there is value in that water, and there are businesses that are allocating and identifying that value. So navigating that path, you know, I'm sorry I missed that meeting this last week. But I just want to let you know you have continue support from the Environmental Management Commission, what needs to be done, how we do it, allocating funding. I'm really hopeful at some point there's going to be an email that says, here's this funding, and this is what it's going to be for, and that we can move forward. But thanks for your diligence, with this shitty job. I don't know if you knew what you were coming into, and accepting the job. And (inaudible) who have been doing this in our county for a long time. And it must be a priority, it absolutely must be. I know for here in Kona as I listen to all different sectors and walk of life talk about the expansion and growth and development and housing needs and what not. And I am adamant that we need that we need infrastructure first. We cannot continue to jeopardize the health and safety of our people or our natural resources, which is our coastline, our waters, the coral ecosystems there, and the species that reside within. And we're farther along now than we have been, and sometimes that really just sucks because it means we know the problem that much more intimately which can be overwhelming. But I am really hopeful that as we continue to navigate through the next couple of months, that there would be some opportunities for overcoming those barriers. And transitioning our practices. So thanks for your continued willingness to, you know, yeah, get your hands dirty and get right in it. Page 8 RAWEEMC-I I October 19, 2021 And I keep telling my son -in laws go into wastewater, get trained there's some guaranteed positions that will take time. But talk about a trade that we need. So thank you for that, appreciate you. I yield. MR. MANSOUR: Thank you so much. And I think that may be something that we could refer to the Finance Committee. Because remember I don't have control of the funding. I could only give ideas. But definitely the funding needs to be driven by the Finance Committee, and the Finance Department, because it's not my—you know, as a department my funding comes from a different department, and different committee. CHR. RICHARDS: Alright, thank you. Any other questions, oh, Ms. Lee Loy first. Okay, Ms. Lee Loy and then Ms. David. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. I wanted to focus a little bit on the regulatory compliance pieces that you had in your presentation, and that basically our wastewater systems don't have any redundant treatment process, hence the spill this morning. Share with me a little bit, because there's a condition assessment that you put together also. And how we begin to strategically march through the needs. Because I just find it really interesting, we had a conversation about three percent TAT (Transient Accommodation Tax) that's going into the General Fund. Then I hear Council Members being real serious about getting our arms around, you know, protecting our environment, and our water qualities, while protecting our kids. I mean this might be the pitch. Yeah, so share with me how we begin to map through some of those systematic changes, because my concern is if we don't get our arms around this aged infrastructure, we're going to get hit with very big fines that really will begin to just sink the county in having to pay that. Director? MR. MANSOUR: Yes, definitely. This is the major challenge you talked about the spill today, when you see a facility, and you asked me what is the ranking way back in March and I gave you failing rating. And here our consultant comes and tells me you only got 14 percent life span in your Hilo treatment plant. I cannot do magic. All I can do is come up with ideas and remedy the situation. But without having the funds you cannot get anything done, that's the bottom line. I cannot print dollars. I've got to deal with what we've got. You know, it's a mess. You're right our guys are working so hard because the wastewater comes in as a river, you cannot stop it. You cannot just turn the valve and say well let figure out how I'm going to fix it, doesn't work that way. So we get a river wastewater coming in everyday, 24/7 every second. Yeah, when you cannot have a valve to stop it, the water is going to continue to go into the ocean, unfortunately. Like I said, I don't have the funding to fix it. We were given limited fund to figure out what part we could fix. But you cannot fix a part and over look the other part, they all work together. Page 9 RAWEEMC-11 October 19, 2021 MR. TAKAMURA: Can I interject the redundancy question. Why we want redundancy is we can shut off one train and do maintenance, or fix the other train and then put it back online. But now we don't have that luxury. So if that working train should break, we'd be in violation. And that's what DOH and EPA is very concerned with. We lost the ability to maintain our treatment plants, because there's no redundancy. So if you look at the pie charts for the three plants, Hilo was 82 percent but if you add the yellow piece it comes out to 95 percent. That means only five percent of the plant is in good shape, 95 percent requires maintenance or replacement. And if you look at Kula`imano, Papa`ikou, it's in the 80 percent. The other problem we have is because we've neglected the facilities this long, we have no maintenance group. So there's no staff that we have that can go out there and perform maintenance. So it's only the small staff we have that is operating the facility, now they're challenged with doing major repair projects. So I think one of the goals we had is to create a maintenance staff, because we let everything go way past its life. And the only way now is to spend a lot of money to actually replace the process that is failed, there's no maintenance now. It's replacement. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Eric for that very sobering fact, that we have a wastewater system that's only five percent working. I wanted to talk a little bit about the Konno decision, and, you know, just some of the constraints along those lines. Have we explored emergency procurement, so that we can start moving some of this into an 89 -day contract while we address or is that how restrictive the Konno decision is? MR. MANSOUR: It's very restrictive. Even with the 89 -day contract, the challenge is also to find the staff that's willing to come for 89 -days. So we cannot find staff to come for full permanent positions. Like I was saying, somebody needs to take the initiative to take a State-wide work with other counties. I would imagine Human Resources, take the initiative to start working with the State to change the recruitment, and retention, and the maintenance of staff. I went through that probably 20 years ago in California, where we brought in and done equity study. Trying to figure out what's the base scale for the engineers, how can we retain them, how we can recruit them, retain them, and retain them. It's a process, I recommend the county needs to go through it. I had the same difficulties when I was in the City and County trying to hire staff. It's just, Engineer V here they start in the high $60,000. I mean this is just, you know, pretty much minimum wage at the $15.00 an hour. But we're asking 35 certified professionals to come in at the bottom of the scale. That needs to change, but somebody needs to take the initiative to get it running. Otherwise we're going to keep continuing to kick the can down the railroad, and hoping that somebody within the State and other counties would take that initiative. But I think we're facing the problem, let's lead by example. Let's take the initiative and see what comes out of it. It's hurting our county. Page 10 RAWEEMC-11 October 19, 2021 MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and it sounds like we're in a world of hurt when only five percent of the infrastructure is working. My last question is, you know, this grant that was submitted the $49.5 million, and you marked it as pending. What are our chances at securing that funding, and then what happens if we're unable to? MR. MANSOUR: Here's the challenge as I stated, all the funding I really would rather refer them to the Finance Department, because they're the one who gives us the money. And I cannot speak about different departments. But all I know is my projects are in the hundreds of a million dollars, between Pahala and N5'51ehu that broader estimate about a $120 million for these. The Hilo treatment plan that we need to fix, I was given around $50 million, but $50 million is not going to give me the full rehab of that facility. So that doesn't work, and the WIFIA is $49 million but you have to go to 49 percent to match it, which it's going to come out from General Fund. To me this is—you know, I'll refer it to Finance, and you guys could work out the finance details. Because I don't have access to what the debt ratio is and what have you. So every dollar we get it has to be approved by the Finance Department. They're the lead department when it comes to funding my projects. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Director. Thank you, Eric, for being here. Chair, I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you. Ms. David. MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair Richards. Aloha Director, and thank you for being here. Must say, I'm very depressed with the reality of where our wastewater treatment situation is for this county. Specifically, I just have some questions regarding the Pahala LCC (Large Capacity Cesspool). And I know you came in after the fact, and a lot of this stuff for Pahala was already in the works. And then I see that the finding of no significant impact was withdrawn. You have any information why that happened, and then now do we have to revisit that whole process again? MR. MANSOUR: Sure, definitely. As you said, we're withdrawing the funds because the way the thing that worked through the permitting process, our consultant is through SHPD (State Historic Preservation Division) did not do geotechnical, so it was not approved through SHPD through Geotechnical prior to the EA (Environmental Assessment). So they allowed the EA to go forward and then we did the geotechnical back in April and extensive geotechnical work, and we found large lava tubes within that study. So that allows us to re -think the project, because it's just the exposure of high risk during construction. And technically it could have halted the whole project, because if you end up digging an 18, 20, feet deep or more we could have encountered burial sites, and etcetera. Page 11 RAWEEMC-11 October 19, 2021 So that information was not available earlier in the process, it came available this year in April. And that's where it got us to re -think, you know, the exposure for all these risks. In addition to that also the variance report on the flow, the facility was designed to take x amount of flow, about 200,000 gallons. The actual flow based on the water usage was around 18,000 to 20,000 gallons, almost 10 percent of the designed value. So that by itself, you know, it could have led to a failure in the system because the lagoon becomes green swamp, because you don't have enough flow coming In. So that allows us to go back to the Department of Health and ask for variance report on that actual flow that comes to the facility. So as we move forward working with EPA, is we have to identify the options that we're going to select. So if one falls out, we have something within the environmental document to fall back on. MS. DAVID: And so let's say this redo, how much money is that going to cost in addition to what was already expended, or added to the total for this facility? MR. MANSOUR: The good thing is we have 80 percent of the work already done. So all we have to do is reassemble it. We've been having meetings once a week or twice a week, between the consultant and EPA on how to move forward and put the work plan. So it's nothing that will be wasted, because we haven't got to the treatment plant to start with. MS. DAVID: Okay. MR. MANSOUR: So the sewer collection aren't even completed. Phase one sewer collection, is going to be completed. This has no impact on the treatment plant itself. We have purchased the property. So we have accomplished a lot of milestone. But now we need to continue working with EPA, to ensure that we have the right process moving forward for both Pahala and Na`alehu. MS. DAVID: And so the funding for both these facilities. MR. MANSOUR: The funding is already under SRF (State Revolving Fund) funding, so we have the funding. MS. DAVID: Okay. MR. MANSOUR: And part of it is, it's a State funded. But we were going through Federal grant funding, because we had got $1.8 million grant through Federal. So that kind of drove the entire project, unfortunately. And the State said well, "You have to run it through us." So now we run it through them, and Page 12 RAWEEMC-11 October 19, 2021 they approve it. So we're moving forward with all the stakeholders and the players back in the game. MS. DAVID: Okay, perfect. Well thank you for your hard work, because this has been very controversial project for both Pahala and Na`alehu. And I'm glad that you're working through it. So thank you for your report. And I think that's all the questions I have. Thank you, Chair. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you. And thank you, Director, for being here. Seems that every time we have a communication, we do have a very grim outlook as to what's coming down the pipeline. So maybe—and there was so much presented in this deck today, and I hear you say multiple times that someone needs take initiative. I think that someone is you, in some of these instances. Because I don't know anyone on this body here who has the expertise that you do, when it comes to wastewater treatment. So I'm wondering if at some point we can get, you know, a relatively short and concise idea, or priority list that we have actionable steps to accomplish. Because I know you've inherited a lot, and discussions with other Directors, some of the other departments have also inherited some difficult situations. In some instances I'm seeing perhaps, you know, a more prioritized approach, just to get some things done. So I'm wondering if that might be something we can look for the next time we have some kind of presentation, with regards to either wastewater, treatment, or solid waste management. Just so we have, you know, a working idea of what are the priorities, and how we're going to accomplish the goals for those priorities. So I don't want to press you for specific answers right now, but in light of the difficulties that we as a county and you as a department are experiencing in this area, I think it would be helpful for all of us moving forward, to take that approach. MR. MANSOUR: Sure, definitely. Remember my priority is based on how much fund I get. If I don't get money, projects don't get done. So we're going to continue asking for the funding. So definitely do I have an idea of how, you know, these are going to be funded? No. And like I said, we're going to continue working with the Finance Department and requesting, you know, the dollar figure to get our projects done. And we're going to continue working with Humane Resource Department, to figure a way around Konno decision, and also to start the initiative to take it statewide to recruit, retain, and maintain. These are unfortunately outside my control, but when it comes to projects, wastewater, yes, we'll give you priority. We already listed on that accomplishment of projects. We're working on $17 million projects, in the Page 13 RAWEEMC-11 October 19, 2021 design process now. That means we're looking at $117 million to construct these $17 million design projects we're working on now. So the idea is we could finish the design, and hopefully we get the construction money to get it done. MR. INABA: Great. And I think just in summary, for what we've discussed all though we might not currently be aware of all of those financial needs that you're talking about, that's the point of, you know, prioritization. And we probably don't have those funds to help you anyway. But we don't know what the needs are in a concrete and succinct kind of picture. So if we can get that, we might have a better understanding. If that means certain positions next time around might need to have pay increases, or we need to create additional positions. That's within the scope of this body's work, right? But when it comes to those project -based funding needs, you know, maybe not necessarily here. Of course we'd like to know what those priorities are. But I'll just leave it at that, and in the next presentation, because I'm sure we'll have more where you're here, we can perhaps get that kind of summarized hopeful look about what our future will be. So thank you so much. MR. MANSOUR: Thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Look around here, go back to Hilo. Matt, you have anything? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I do, thank you. Looking over here at the presentation Director, a couple random things caught my eye. How much are you guys paying journeymen electricians right now? MR. MANSOUR: Sorry, I didn't get that question. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: How much do you currently pay journeymen electricians? MR. MANSOUR: Thirty dollars an hour probably. Remember we have different classifications, and different bargaining units. Engineers flow under different bargaining units than the UPW (United Public Workers). Some of that lower and you know, doesn't require certification and licenses, the pay scale maybe fine on that. But the big picture is trying to solicit certified operators, and engineers. And that's an issue the entire State is suffering from. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And I asked it's on your major Challenge 3 personnel slide, and it's listed as one of the things you're having hard time finding. Wastewater field, Certified Wastewater Operators III and IV, and Journeyman Electricians. I am a journeyman electrician, so I asked. So you're paying $30 an hour. That's not bad considering the amount of benefits and everything else that comes along with that job. Page 14 RAWEEMC-11 October 19, 2021 MR. TAKAMURA: I kind of recollect I was just looking, I thought a private sector journeyman makes $45 an hour. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Well you hope to get $45 an hour, but that's not a guarantee when you're in the field in the private sector. I've known many good journeyman electricians who are making way less than that, and you hope for your State jobs to fulfill the other end of your pay. MR. TAKAMURA: Yeah, because we've had like two years of ongoing recruitment, and nobody has applied. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Maybe if I don't get re-elected, I'll come apply with you guys. MR. MANSOUR: Come on over, and we'll take the offer. MR. TAKAMURA: You want to come part-time, we'll take the offer. MR. MANSOUR: And if you know somebody, please put the word out. But two years of advertising and nobody applying, that tells you we've got some—either not finding the right people or people not wanting to apply. And that's true for mechanics, because we're having part-time mechanics or equipment. You know, nobody wants to apply for part-time sometimes. Yeah, if you know somebody, please refer them to our website. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Question about injection wells. mean it looks like injection wells was one of the reasons that you polled like adding problems with certain projects, is that correct? MR. MANSOUR: No. The injection wells, which is because the Maui lawsuit. This potential I put it down as potential AOC (Assimilable Organic Carbon) the Department of Health and us are communicating with EPA, trying to figure out are these going to be legit or we're going to be converting them to something else. There's a process in the lawsuit, my understanding, is still continuing to make sure all injections wells are banned. But definitely, currently we have these three sites and the reason I brought them up is, because we need to pay attention to them because especially at Kealakehe where 1.8 million gallons goes through this percolation sump, which is technically considered to some people as an injection well that goes straight to the harbor. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I mean there is a lot of environmental aspects of that lawsuit. Which I think are very pertinent to, you know, what we saw in our coral reef degradation. I'm very interested in seeing how that goes for us as a county. That's interesting. Page 15 RAWEEMC-11 October 19, 2021 There was a lot of discussion, and I appreciate Maile David's questions about the Pahala and the Na`alehu sites. My question was, I mean I'm looking at a letter that says, "We removed our EA the findings of none"—yeah, the FONSI. "We withdrew our Finding of No Significant Impact for the Pahala site," correct? MR. MANSOUR: That's correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But our repercussion of that was that we could no longer use the EPA funding, or the grant funding, is that correct? MR. MANSOUR: That's not correct. We're still working with EPA, and we're still partnering with them. That doesn't take away the funding, though. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I mean the letter says, "The county may not expend any funds from this grant for the design or construction related to the Pahala community large capacity cesspool closure project until a requisite environmental review has been completed under NEPA." MR. TAKAMURA: Yeah, we just got approved through the EA. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This is dated— MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, this is part of the process, because we are MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Dated October 12, 2021. MR. MANSOUR: Sorry. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm just trying to understand this, because it has been an ongoing discussion between the community and many of the Council Members. MR. TAKAMURA: Yeah, what that letter is saying is that we no longer have a final EA and FONSL So we have to redo the final EA, and issue another FONSI. Once that happens, then the grant is applicable for construction. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So the funding is sitting there, but we can't use it until we get another EA that takes into account the new scope of project that we're about to rekindle I guess. MR. TAKAMURA: Correct. MR. MANSOUR: That is correct, because you have to have everything approved, even the bidding package approved, to be able to start withdrawing the construction money. So the fund is there, but waiting on the approval and the bidding for the projects so we can start using it. Page 16 RAWEEMC-11 October 19, 2021 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. What has been spent so far on that project? MR. MANSOUR: So far it's just the design work, I don't have an exact dollar figure. But the money—EPA was the lead on the EA, and they spend their money on that. So part of the initial design work, that is already being spent. And that we're going to salvage 80 percent of it, but the collection system we spend a 100 percent on phase one, and we got it delivered. So what we spent we get the product for. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Can you get that number to me, for what's been spent on Pahala and Na`alehu? MR. MANSOUR: I don't have it handy. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No, not today, but in the future can you send it to me, please? MR. MANSOUR: Sure. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Mr. Mansour, I would say one of the reasons that I confirmed your nomination was your significant depth of experience across the board for Environmental Management as a whole. And I really did have high expectations of what your output would be in this position. I need to kind of go back to what you said earlier, which was, "I'm waiting for the Finance Committee to release funding." I'm the Finance Chair, and I don't release funding to your department. I handle the paperwork, but ultimately that decision lies with the Mayor, and the Department of Finance, and with yourself to get that funding. You've painted a very clear picture of what your needs are, but it's going to come down to the Mayor saying yes or no, and funding what you need and what you don't need. And making that decision. You're going to have to work hard with the Mayor's Office and with Deanna, to assure the funding that you need to get what you need done. In different governments in different ways, things work differently. But that comment caught me, and I just wanted to not correct you, but guide you to ensure that you do know who you need to speak to. My committee will handle your paperwork if it comes through the Finance Committee, but the reality is the Mayor's Office is going to need to grant that funding to your department. Do you understand that? MR. MANSOUR: Yeah. I told you, I think maybe you missunderstood when I said refer it back to Finance Committee on finding ways pertaining to creative funding mechanism, such as enterprise fund and other. Because I know the commission probablyI would imagine will be submitting their report to your committee. But that was the intent, the intent was not funding the projects, it is Page 17 RAWEEMC-11 October 19, 2021 navigating through the Finance Committee to find ways to generate funding for the solid waste and wastewater. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. MR. MANSOUR: There's two different things. HopefullyI just want to make it clear. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I think it's a language thing, but yeah. I just wanted you to understand that I feel for what you need, and I can see the need and you've presented it to us a few times now with the documentation and the estimated cost. And what it's going to take, and it looks daunting. But I personally cannot do that for you, it's going to take the entire Administration coming together and working to make sure that we take care of our wastewater facilities. CHR. RICHARDS: Wrap it up, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. MANSOUR: You're right on, thank you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. I'm glad you understand that. But again, I'm going to come back to your resume was one of the most solid resume that I saw from many of the nominations that came through, giving your depth of experience. And I'm going to hold you to that, because within that resume I saw potential to really take our Environmental Management team to great heights. And so I'm expecting that from you Sir, and we will back you up. But you have to be the leader here. MR. MANSOUR: Definitely. And I hopefully like I said I don't make magic. I'm very experienced in what I do, but if you don't have the funding and resource, I don't have the genie in the bottle. But I'm going to continue beating that dead horse, that, you know, for everybody to know that definitely I need the funding to get the job done. I need the money. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you, Director. Thank you, Deputy Director. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. Is that your light on, Ms. Kierkiewicz? Second round. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes, Chair it is. Just a quick closing statement if possible. CHR. RICHARDS: Go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Mahalo nui. Thank you Director, Eric, for being here. You know, I just want to close by saying, appreciate the discussion. I Page 18 RAWEEMC-11 October 19, 2021 think a lot of the information that was presented today, we as a Council already knew more or less. I'm going to invite you back to Council again, similar to how I have for solid waste issues where I've asked you to very clearly identify what your priorities are, and how you're going to take action on them. Director, got to be real with you, you're not going to have the billion dollars you need to address everything at the same time. You do have money available now, to start implementing on certain projects. I think as Council Member Holeka Inaba said, we want to see progress on projects you already have in the works. And that builds, I think trust and confidence in the ability to act. So I'm going to reach out to you, coordinate with your office on coming back to us to provide us with that very high level, very pointed strategic pathway forward. Because I think we're all really curious of everything that's happening. What are your priorities for the department moving into the next fiscal year, and how are you leveraging the funds that are available to your division currently? Thank you again, for being here. Chair, I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Looking back here on Kona side, not seeing anything. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, do you have anything else on the second lap? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No. I'm okay, Chair. Thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, so with that, we'll wrap this thing up. Director, first of all thanks again for being here. Waste management, or wastewater, or solid waste, it's a big iceberg ahead of us, right? Using some of your statements. Couple of things I wanted to touch on, before we finish this up. Staffing, I think you touched on that, but sounds like the compensation package might be a part of the problem going forward. And finding people, just finding people is a problem. Is that a fair statement? MR. MANSOUR: That is correct. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. The funding that you've talked about the three wastewater treatment plants, so rough numbers, about $160 million to put those three plants back in order. As far as the pipes you're replacing or planning replacing, about what is that project cost? MR. MANSOUR: Currently the projects that we have funds set aside or at least commitment from Finance, is being worked on under the design shown on the accomplishment as was presented to you. So we have about $17 million of design work, we're working on now as we speak. And these are some of the projects that we brought them up during the accomplishment. So that hopefully will allow us at least between the grants, the state revolving funds, and the commitment to float bonds from the Finance Department to allow to do what I call is to get us at the first stage of getting things done. Page 19 RAWEEMC-11 October 19, 2021 Some of them it's not going to be enough. The Hilo I only was committed or given $50 million. Well you see, I need $86 million just to rehab it, so I'm short $30 million. But what we're doing is we're working with the consultant, trying to figure out how we can redesign it to use the $50 million, to cover the $86 million needed. And that's the challenge that we're having. But yes, we're working for what we are given, and try to accomplish and move that forward. CHR. RICHARDS: And I got that part. And you can only do what you can do, with the funding you receive. And I got that. But give me a number, as Mr. Inaba had said, give me a number for the pipes. Rough number, so we know what kind of scale we're talking about. MR. MANSOUR: You're talking about all the projects, that I present? CHR. RICHARDS: The pipes that you referenced saying some of them aren't even appropriate. MR. TAKAMURA: Cast iron, force main, along with the pump station upgrade is about $35 million. CHR. RICHARDS: About $35 million, okay. MR. TAKAMURA: Pua force main alone is running about $28 million. CHR. RICHARDS: For what was that again? MR. TAKAMURA: Pua force main. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. MR. TAKAMURA: Because we want to put in a new one, and then we want to rehab the old one so we have redundant pipeline. Wailoa, besides the pump station, we have to try and put in a redundant force main. So that project is about $19 to $20 million. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. So what I'm looking for is something in scale, so what we're talking about is a couple hundred million dollars of projects. And before we start expanding our wastewater management throughout the island, which we're going to have to talk about, we're going to have to get what we have out there fixed, and up and running, so we stop worrying about it, and then can start focusing on doing the next thing. So that gives us gives our Council an idea what the scale of funding, and then figure out how we're going to do that. I think you're exactly right Director, it's going to be through bonding. Where we have to have some idea on what we need to bond, and if we have to figure out how we're going to pay for that bonding. I think some questions have been raised about that, about some alternative funding sites. Page 20 RAWEEMC-11 October 19, 2021 Again federal money sure but then also some of the—you know, even earlier today we talked about some of the TAT might that be available for part of paying for the bonding. I don't want to get down too far into that, because that's not our intent. Our intent is to get an idea of the scale, of what we need to try and figure out. And then get that funding to come forth. So with that I do appreciate your time and giving us an overview on this stuff. I'm looking around the room, I think we are done as far as comments and questions. Any final comment you wanted to make, Director? MR MANSOUR: Yeah. Just to add what Eric has said, we have created a CIP list, and it's given to part of the Finance package or, you know, the funding process. Because it's not funded by, you know, the wastewater money. So every project that we have, it's already been submitted over the last 10 years, gets submitted every year to the Finance Department. Where they have a monthly meeting to talk about Capital Improvement Projects (CIP). So the list that you're talking about it already exists, and it has all the projects that Eric had spoken of, and it tells you the need and the projects. And we even ranked them on a priority one, two. So we can provide that to you. We have that. CHR. RICHARDS: And I appreciate that, but that CIP budget list I think that's something over $600 million at this point. The idea is that this conversation, Ms. Kierkiewicz bought this forward, highlights the concern we have many facets that we have to get after this. Number one, environmental; number two, EPA; number three, it's the right thing to do. Our population is growing, and we have to take care of this problem. And what this does is it puts it on the front burner so we can discuss it and start figuring how we can seek the funding that will actually take care of it. We can talk story a lot, but we're just going to have to start checking things off, and figure out how we're going to find that funding. The CIP budget is fine, but it's an unfunded budget. We have to find the funding to get that done. And so with that, we have a motion on the floor. Again, I appreciate both of your guys' time today, because this puts it in scale for the conversation of this Council. We have a motion on the floor to close file on Communication 436. All signify by saying "aye." Page 21 RAWEEMC-11 Vote on Comm. 436 Filed ORDER OF RESOLUTIONS BILLS FOR ORDINANCES October 19, 2021 The motion to close file on Comm. 436 was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members, David, Inaba, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Richards — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung, and Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder — 2. Excused: None. The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Order of Resolutions. (There were none.) The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Bills for Ordinances. (There were none.) CHR. RICHARDS: We have come to the end of our agenda. ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 4:49 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to MENT: adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members, David, Inaba, Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Richards — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung —1. Excused: None. Page 22 RAWEEMC-I 1 Approved: October 19, 2021 ACTING CHR. INABA: We stand adjourned. Thank you everybody. 44C,-tA. Ill -2-4-12-1 Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair (Date) Regenerative Agriculture, Water, Energy and Environmental Management Com ittee HR/rk Page 23