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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN RAWEEMC 2021/11/16 2020-2022Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, Energy, And Environmental Management 13th Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawai i November 16, 2021 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, ORDER: Energy and Environmental Management was called to order at 2:22 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The Chair called Mr. Chuck Flaherty, who registered to speak to comment regarding Communication 494, and came forward when called. CHR. RICHARDS: At this point we will close public testimony. Moving on to Communications, Clerk, please. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 378.3: REQUESTS AN UPDATE FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT REGARDING SOLID WASTE DIVISION PRIORITIES AND CHALLENGES From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated October 27, 2021. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to close file on Comm. 378.3. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. RICHARDS: Ms. Kierkiewicz. RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I'm actually going to be requesting that my colleagues support me in a postponement on this particular discussion. We did have a robust conversation with Department Director couple of months ago. This was a follow-up request on my part to synthesize all that information and tell us one, two, three, what the priorities are. I don't think we have time, or the Director is in a position to kind of give us that sketch today. They've asked for a little bit more time, and so wondering if we couldI'd like to make a motion to postpone to the January 4, 2022, wow can't believe I'm saying that, committee meeting. CHR. RICHARDS: So you are making the motion? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I'm making the motion to postpone. Vote on Motion Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to postpone Comm. 378.3 to to Postpone: January 4, 2022. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy and carried (Approved) by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members, Chung, David, Inaba, Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Richards — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. RICHARDS: Clerk, moving on to Communication 402.2. Comm. 402.2: REQUESTS AN UPDATE FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT REGARDING THE PROHIBITION OF TRAILERS AT COUNTY WASTE TRANSFER STATIONS From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated October 19, 2021. ; and Comm. 402.3: From Department of Environmental Management Director Ramzi Mansour, dated November 1, 2021, transmitting the most recent draft amendment to the Department's Administrative Rule No. 9-17. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to close file on Comm. 402.2. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. RICHARDS: Ms. Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. You know, prior Administration had implemented a ban of trailers at various transfer stations sites around the islands. Incoming Roth Administration had actually extended that, implemented it in April. There's been a lot of frustration in community about this particular rule Page 2 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 change, but thankfully the Director and his team are willing to have discussions around how we might be able to collaborate, compromise, update our rules, so that this incredibly important ability for various community members who often haul trash for folks in their neighborhood, do community cleanups, have the ability to haul that trash to transfer stations. So we've had conversations previously by this body, with the Director, on potential locations. One of the follow-up items that I requested the Director work on with Corporation Counsel, were some draft language to the rules. So we have it before us in Communication 402.3, and did want to provide Director Ramzi Mansour some time to kind of walk us through that. Because I know he also went to the Commission, to get their mana`o on this as well. So Director. (Note: At this time, Environmental Management Director Ramzi Mansour, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. MANSOUR: Thank you, Council Members, Committee Member Kierkiewicz. Thank you, Chair, and Committee Members. Definitely just to follow-up to our prior meeting, we had looked at it, we created a timeline, and we changed the language for Section 9-17, Vehicles, to allow the Director of the department, based on certain conditions as stated before you in the submittal, to allow the option of certain locations, as we talked about. The five potential locations from prior meetings that we could do with minimal modifications. And then talking to staff, definitely weI don't know if you are able to get that draft schedule timeline, Peter my secretary submitted to you. Okay. So definitely given the fact that there's the potential for these five sites, Pahoa, Hilo, Waimea, Kealakehe, and Wai`6hinu. Wai`6hinu currently it's under construction, so definitely we're not going to be able to do anything anytime soon till the construction is completed. The site is designed to handle trailers, so that will be a check mark for that location. The other four definitely, as we presented last time, we're looking at one day per week only for trailers. They could bring white goods, greenwaste, or garbage to these four locations. And for us to be able to implement these we're looking the soonest would be March 1, 2022, based on the timeline. Because we have to go through a certain process that dictated on us, as part of the admin rule, we have to follow. So we have to go through the 30 -day newspaper, we have to create the public hearings for the five locations. We'd probably just do it on the east side and the west side, but we can work with Corporation Counsel to figure out do we really need five locations. Or we could do it in two locations, and have people drive to these locations for the public hearings. And we have to get the Mayor's approval, and then we have to file it with the County Clerk. And then after we file it with County Clerk, 10 days after that it becomes effective. In the meantime my staff are working on—we need to get a Page 3 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 training program for our current staff, on how to handle the traffic maneuvering. We're working with the traffic department, Public Works Department, on coming up with a traffic control plan for these five sites. And as I said, we want to be able to designate one day for the certain shoots within the site. And there's a challenge if one trailer for example comes in with a refridgerator, greenwaste, and garbage. That's going to create some challenge to our operators, because the way the shoots are laid out, they're going to get rid of first maybe let's say the refridgerator. They cannot hold the traffic so they either have to exit out and come back, or we may end up not allowing mixed loads within a trailer because that just creates extra burden on maneuvering around the site, and creates more safety hazards. So there's certain things as we implement that, we're going to be looking at having actually a work plan to implement these changes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Director, couple of follow-up questions, on the first part that you have just mentioned. Greenwaste, refridgerator, household trash, are you dictating in the rules what would be acceptable, or it's depending on each site that we are looking to situate and allow trailers? MR. MANSOUR: It's not in the rule, but it'll be posted on the site, it depends on the site's configuration. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So site dependent. MR. MANSOUR: Yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. And then you mentioned earlier the soonest you can implement is March? I just want to make sure the public understands by when you say implement, you mean implement the rule. That's not when you are saying, we're going to allow trailers at certain transfer stations. Is that correct? MR. MANSOUR: Yes. That rule becomes effective 10 days after filing with the Clerk of the board—County Clerk. And then if our staff are ready to handle it, then it'll become also effective to take trailers. But in the meantime we're working on traffic control plan, and hopefully we'll have all that ready by then. So we targeting the first quarter of the year. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So first quarter of the year, public hearings introducing this new rule, potential amendment going out to the public, right? Adopting it, based on public feedback. And then by March once we have the timeframe, right, of 10 days it's finally an approved rule, then you can implement. And I'm seeing here as part of your schedule, there's some site evaluation which I thought already happened, as you were identifying the locations to do this. So feel like that's what, like another cursory step? What is that? Page 4 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 MR. MANSOUR: Anything beyond that, let's say other sites that may require a site evaluation and redesign configuration. These we cannot implement by March, because it's going to—I know Council Member, Committee Member Kimball asked us to look at potential the site within her district. But if we take that for example, because there's no way we could allow any trailer currently or by March at that particular site, because we're talking about complete redesign. Then that site has to go through the budget process, the budget hearing, when the budget gets approved and we have RFP (Request for Proposals) out, solicit a consultant if it gets approved. And that's why I added it in the time table just to give you an idea if a site requires modification, we're looking at three years minimum actually just to get it implemented. Because also may require environmental assessment report, you know, you've got to go through the whole funding process, and see if even the site can be modified. If not then you're looking at possibly different site location, so it's gets more complicated. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah. I'd like to proceed as simply as possible. I think a lot of these things are being really over complicated. All of us have contingency funds. I just feel like let's pursue the path of least resistance and not over design, and over engineer, and do all these things that really don't make sense to community. The idea is let's get this service back in as many communities as possible, and being really fiscally mindful in how we proceed with that. That's all I want to say. I think you know how we all feel about this. With a stroke of pen the rule changed overnight. And I feel that with the stroke of your pen, you can make some changes too. And you're trying with Corporation Counsel. We've all read the report. We have it here. And there are some recommendations by the Commission that I think you're going to take a hard look at, and incorporate in the amendments to the rule. MR. MANSOUR: For these particular sites, yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. But also Communication 402. 3, where the commission says it's not necessary for DEM (Department of Environmental Management) employees to ask to see trailer registration because it's on the trailer. MR. MANSOUR: Yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Like that's pretty obvious, right? Like you're not going to include that in the rule amendment. MR. MANSOUR: Right. We've received the comment in the commissions, and were holding onto also receiving more comments from the public. So this is just Page 5 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 for discussion to give you first draft at it, because as we go into the public hearings, something may come up during the public hearing. But I just want to make it clear, our safety is number one priority. We're not going to jeopardize that. It's not stroke of the pen, it's not that easy. So other sites definitely we cannot accommodate. The four sites that we spoke about, with Wai`6hinu after construction, based on my staff and the safety committee we need the traffic control plan, we need one day designated with no other traffic except trailers. So we're working on it, just for these five sites. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And I really appreciate that. I really appreciate all the hard work and effort on this because there's so many other balls that you're juggling right now. I just want to talk about like next steps, because I'm excited that there is a timeline for action. There's some deadlines that were holding ourselves accountable to. Is your preference to end the dialog here, should we have another meeting in December where we just kind of touch base on revised language? I mean 402.3, is not final language that you're going out to the public with. I just want to make sure that there's ample time in various arenas for us to talk about it, as Council and as community. MR. MANSOUR: I'll leave that to your preference, I mean the language is going to change, maybe just before the implementation, and maybe take it to the Mayor for approval. Maybe we'll come to you with the final language before it gets approved. Because like I said, there's still a process during the public hearing, but we feel good about the language that is presented. But like I said we got five comments from the commission, about the size of the trailers. We used six by nine (feet), because that's what was used during the safety, you know, findings. But you're right, you know, some of it may impact the language a little bit. If the public comes in with reasonable comments we could amend that language, or just continue with the language that's presented. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, I want to be crystal clear here. So Communication 402.3, this is the language you're going to go to public hearings with. MR. MANSOUR: Yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. So you're ignoring the recommendations of the commission? MR. MANSOUR: Well we're not ignoring it, as I stated the six by nine (feet) is the size of the trailer that was used. We could modify the language prior to that approval MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. And then see? Page 6 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, because we may get more language that need to be revised during the public hearings, that's all I'm saying. We're not saying we're not going to listen to the commission, but rather than multiple revisions, let's wait from the public hearing if there's also addition comment that needs to be implemented, we'll do it one time. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: To review all the comments, one revision? MR. MANSOUR: Yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. I just want to make sure that I'm hearing you correctly, so that we know what to take out to our various communities around the island. So if this is the language that we should have folks kind of reviewing and chewing on ahead of the public meeting, this is what we're going to promote. Judge Strance, did you want to weigh in on something? You're getting closer and closer to the microphone, so figured we'd invite you. (At this time. Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward to address the Committee Members.) MS. STRANCE: Sorry. Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. I just wanted to caution that there's a rule-making process that the Director is talking about. And while the Council can weigh in on things, I don't know whether I'm being protective or cautious about directing the Director about how to rule make as an executive function. He's described that he wants to involve a public process. And I'm just cautious of directives to the Director that would either usurp his authority, or usurp a public process. And so if the purpose of these questions is to get clear on what is going to be submitted to the public, I think that's fine. Because you want to communicate with your constituents. But in terms of being directed to the Director about what he can and cannot include in his rule when he described a process to you that involves public safety and community input, I just caution around that. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Judge Strance. We will proceed with caution, just better make sure we have what we need. And I think these discussions have been really helpful for all us, it really illuminates what you and your team are grappling with. And it's an opportunity to share that information out to the public, and just having these meetings ensures that there is performance on this topic. Right, you're working on solutions and that we're just holding the department accountable, right? The legislative branch we're just that, check and balance to that Administration. So thank you so much for working with us, for this information Director. And then I will and I'm sure all of my colleagues as well, will be promoting this timeline that you've shared with us to community. So I want to make sure it's Page 7 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 solid, and we can anticipate this, so that folks are prepared to show up and provide their mana`o. MR. MANSOUR: Sounds good. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Thank you. Chair, I yield. I appreciate the latitude. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Other members? Mr. Kaneali'i-Kleinfelder, I cannot see if your light is on. MR. KANEALI'I-KLEINFELDER: Mr. Richards? Thank you. I don't have a lot to add, I just want to see trailers back in our solid waste facilities. Everyone knows how I feel about it, I've been very clear. I think we can have some actionable results a lot sooner than what's being projected, and I still kind of scratch my head when it comes to the reasoning behind not doing it. So appreciate the conversation. Thanks for making this come up Ashley, and for keeping the department moving, and trying to get some of the basic necessities of our community handled. Thank you. I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali'i-Kleinfelder. Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. And thank you, Director, for being here. I just wanted to make one comment on behalf of one of my constituents who I think really had a good point that others share. When we talk about implementation of this and other restrictions for solid waste facilities, we're getting to the point where there's a lot of signage, that's no, don't do this, don't do that. I'm wondering if we could change some of that, and just say okay, you can't do this here but you can do it over there. So when we do implement this new trailer rule, if we can provide signs for folks that are positive, "Well you can't use your trailer here but you can take your trailer to another site." That would be useful to the users. And that's true for other things that we prohibit, if we can let people know what the alternative is to dispose of things properly. That would be helpful, and I'm just wanting to pass that recommendation on from constituent. Thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Ms. David. MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair. Aloha Director, and thank you for being here. I have one question, or maybe two. On Wai`6hinu, what is the timeline on completing construction? MR. MANSOUR: Wai`6hinu they almost at 70 percent. There was some discussion—it was a design -build project. And there's some ambiguity that we're going through with the contractor now. Because staff thought we do need a building over the side from rain, to protect the workers and the refuse. But unfortunately when the contract went out as design -build, did not specify that. So we are working with the current contractor -builder, to see that change could Page 8 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 happen and at what cost. But in the meantime we have that Ocean View potential design construction. So the idea is we're in the process of it could extend the construction because if we decide to add the shelter to the building, it could get extended. So we looking probably a total of eight months to complete. MS. DAVID: Eight more months? MR. MANSOUR: Eight more months. Given the negotiation that we're doing with the contractor on the building. But they already had built the retaining wall, they already done the grading. We're working on the septic tank. So there's minor details and could be major details if we move forward with that change order. MS. DAVID: Okay. So eight more months about, estimated? MR. MANSOUR: Right. MS. DAVID: In the meantime, I've been getting a lot of calls from constituents, I think I've sent you some, forwarded to you. MR. MANSOUR: Right. MS. DAVID: And your department. Ocean View is not one of the transfer stations that's being considered for trailers, or is it? MR. MANSOUR: The future one. The one that is being considered for design, and construction. But the current Ocean View the small location, is not. MS. DAVID: Okay. Even with this revised residential -type of trailer, it wouldn't apply to Ocean View? The problem is now that Wai`6hinu is going to take another eight months, there's a lot of seniors that live out in Ocean View and Wai`6hinu for that matter. That have just regular personal small trailers that they use to take their trash. And Ocean View basically if you have a little trailer, you could do a loop around without even backing up to the bins. And so the question is, why can't we with small trailers utilize the Ocean View one since Wai`6hinu is closed? And I'm just asking because Wai`6hinu is going to take almost another year. How can we help the community, especially our older residents that have small trailers, temporally even? MR. MANSOUR: The way we worded the origins, is to allow us also to look further into a similar situation on the Ocean View. But the challenge becomes, you know, you cannot control the people's behaviors. Small trailers, verses they're going to drive in with a trailer. And from talking to the safety committee, they did not recommend that site to be included. Because we're under the construction at Wai`6hinu, and the new Ocean View site, potentially may become our reload center for that district, similar to the Hilo reload center. So we'll have Page 9 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 more wider spaces, better maneuvering, and what have you. So currentlyI mean we could—might say the way it's written it could allow the Director, based on new reports and findings, but as we stand, they recommended these five sites for the department through the safety committee to—with minimum modifications. I drove through that Ocean View transfer station myself many times, because it's clear flat area. Where we have our garbage beaker or backhoe, and you have the trailers, and you have the garbage bins, it's kind of hard to come in and maneuver with the trailer because you could hit the edge of the garbage bin or the trailer that is being loaded. And you only have certain distance, so you have to come out and make a, you know, big radius to be able to turn around. That's why there's just— MS. DAVID: So there's really nothing that you could do, temporarily even, to allow while Wai`6hinu is under construction until that's completed. Small trailers, at Ocean View. MR. MANSOUR: Well I'll take it to the contractor at Wai`6hinu, to see if maybe we could finish the construction in phases. If we decide to build the structure, at least maybe have it in phases. But we'll continue talking to the contractor. MS. DAVID: Thank you. And then the upgrade for Ocean View, what's the timeline expected, completion for that? MR. MANSOUR: Well we haven't even started the construction. I know there's—yeah, this is still in the planning process. MS. DAVID: Yeah, I get it. MR. MANSOUR: It's going to have a bigger wider discussion, because of the Wai`6hinu. It's only 10 minutes away from Ocean View and the cost. So definitely this subject to more discussion as we move forward. MS. DAVID: Okay. I appreciate you looking into that, because it would really help. And the people you're talking about that don't pay attention to rules etcetera, is basically, you know, not the old mom and pop people that have little trailers that help their neighbors, you know, take trash. MR. MANSOUR: Yes. MS. DAVID: That's all I'm concerned about. Thank you for your input, thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. David. Do we have any other lights on? Okay, seeing none. Director, thanks so much for being here, and giving an update on this. Ms. Kierkiewicz, thanks for keeping this coming forward. There's going Page 10 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 to be some push back in my district, everybody drives horse trailers. And they're very used to using them, and I would argue that many of the drivers of those horse trailers are more adept driving trailers then some people just driving a car. So there's going to be a push back from the community on it. And I don't want to spend a lot of time on this conversation. I understand the concern from a safety standpoint, but I think there's a bigger conversation about safety. I think just a categorical disallowment is not in the best interest, so we're taking steps to correct that and do appreciate that. But again, Waimea and Kohala these are all cowboys and they have horse trailers they don't have little trailers, but they're very good at them. So we're going to leave that conversation here for now. And I'm mindful of what Judge Strance has said, about the rule-making process. But I think we need to have that conversation, so that consideration can be put there. We have this communication before us, there's a motion. Seeing no further conversations all signify closing file by saying "aye." Vote on Comm. 402.2: The motion to close file on Comm. 402.2 was carried by Filed the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Richards – 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder –1. Excused: None. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Director. Clerk, moving on Communication 494. Comm. 494: REQUEST TO PROVIDE AN UPDATE ON THE 2017 KEAUHOU WATER USE DEVELOPMENT PLAN From Department of Water Supply Manager -Chief Engineer Keith Okamoto, dated October 28, 2021. ; and Comm. 494.1: From Department of Water Supply Manager -Chief Engineer Keith Okamoto, dated November 8, 2021, transmitting PowerPoint presentations. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Clerk. And I understand some technology to get together, we have Mr. Fuji from— MS. LEE LOY: Chair, let's get a motion. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Page 11 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 494. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. CHR. RICHARDS: Now, I understand we have some technology coming through and Mr. Fujii is zooming in, is that correct? We have Deputy Director (Note: At this time, Deputy Water Supply Manager Kawika Uyehara, Engineering Division Chief Kurt Inaba, and Lance Fukumoto with Fukunaga and Associates came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. UYEHARA: That is correct. But maybe if I could introduce ourselves and our team first, before the State starts their presentation. CHR. RICHARDS: Identify yourself. MR. UYEHARA: Good afternoon Chair Richards, Vice Chair Inaba, and Members of the Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, Energy and Environmental Management. Good afternoon my name is Kawika Uyehara, Deputy at the Department of Water Supply. And with me we have Kurt Inaba our Engineering Division Head, and Lance Fukumoto, with Fukunaga and Associates who is our consultant. And on the zoom call also, we have the State Water Commission. And we thank you for putting us on the agenda today, we wanted to give a joint presentation for the Keauhou Water Use and Development Plan, the 2017 version update. So I think at this point, I'd like to have the State start their presentation, and then our County will do our presentation. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. So with that who's going to be taking over? Mr. Fujii for presentations, is that our understanding? MR. UYEHARA: Yes. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. MR. FUJIL Alright. Good afternoon Chair Richards, and Committee Members. Neal Fujii with the Commission on Water Resource Management, out of Honolulu. May I share my screen? That's a yes? CHR. RICHARDS: Yes. MR. FUJIL Okay. You guys can hear me, right? CHR. RICHARDS: Yes. MR. FUJIL Okay, excellent. Page 12 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 (Note: At this time, State Water Commission Planning Branch Coordinator Project Manager Neal Fujii; Deputy Director Kaleo Manuel, came forward and provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or online by navigating to the Council's video archives from the County's homepage at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A hard copy of the presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 494. 1.) MR. FUJIL So that was just a kind of quick overview of the Hawaii Water Plan, what it is, what it does, what's it's composed of or the purpose of it, and then how this Keauhou Water Use Development Plan fits in that whole big picture of the Hawaii Water Plan. I think we have Water Department displaying. I'm going to stop sharing. I'm happy to answer questions now or later, after Water Department goes. CHR. RICHARDS: Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Fujii. If there's any quick questions about content of the presentation, we can entertain them now but I want to keep the presentation going, because a bunch of questions may get answered by the County's presentation. So I'm not seeing any quick questions, here. Mr. Fujii, you're available to stay on the line for the time being? MR. FUJIL Yeah, I'm good. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Okay, I'm going to turn this over to Mr. Uyehara, go ahead. MR. UYEHARA: Again, good afternoon. Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, Energy and Environmental Management. My name is Kawika Uyehara, Deputy at Department of Water Supply. And so now we'd like to again, thank the State for their presentation and provide our County's and department's presentation. (Note: At this time, County Deputy for Department of Water Supply Kawika Uyehara, Deputy Engineering Division Head Kurt Inaba, and Lance Fukumoto with Fukunaga and Associates came forward and provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the presentation, see the DVD copy of the proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or online by navigating to the Council's video archives from the County's hompage at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A hard copy of the presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 494. 1.) MR. FUKUMOTO: So the conclusion of the review is that the findings of the Keauhou Water Use and Development Plan remain valid, and the water demand scenarios do not need to be changed in the plan prior to approval. Page 13 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 MR. UYEHARA: So that's one thing we wanted to mention, when we do the re- evaluation after the, State finished their two plans, the Water Resource Protection Plan and then the State Water Aquatics Plan, the results of our evaluation and this plan was still valid, and that's why we're here today, to bring it before this Committee and hopefully keep the process moving after that. So I guess if there's questions? CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. Appreciate that Deputy, so with that going to open it up. First of all thank you for the presentation, Mr. Fujii. Thank you for the other presenters. So with that, I'd like to open it up to the Council Members. I don't see Matt in Hilo, so Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Thanks Kawika, Lance, for being here. I actually had a couple questions related to the open permit status. That was one the layers that you guys had when you were developing the amount of water units to come up right, arrive with this use. Where did we get that open permit number from? MR. UYEHARA: Open permit, you mean maybe entitlements? MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I want to understand that a little better on the anticipated water entitlement slide, there was open permits that was in purple. Open building permits. Maybe that's more for Lance. MR. UYEHARA: Sorry, it's from the Building Department, her open building permits. MS. LEE LOY: Come on, Kurt. MR. INABA: Kurt Inaba Engineering Division Head, with the Department of Water Supply. Yeah, those were just some of the research for the data. We're trying to get as much information as we could in terms of, you know, where we think water is going to be, from our system, is going to be used. That came from just like it's an open building permits. That we assume would have at least one water unit assigned to it. I think we did research on the type of building permit. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and thank you guys for that. I recognize this entire plan was really done very conservatively. And I'm just asking, because we had a robust discussion about our building permit system. And I'm wondering where that number came from, because when we transitioned over to our now building permit system they found that 40,000 open permits have been expired, but they were still open. And so I was just wondering if some consideration was given. MR.INABA: No. Page 14 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 MS. LEE LOY: Okay, and that's fine. Which this points to how conservative this report is. The other question I had around this is, since 2019 we've adopted new construction codes which spoke to water saving, low flush, has some of that data emerged through some of this pumpage, or why the pumpage is, you know, going down? MR. INABA: Yeah, we don't know specifically because we don't have the information of exactly how many of those low -flow fixtures have been installed. But I think generally speaking, you know, we've seen pumpage on a decline. You know, there's multiple reasons, of course COVID probably being one of them, this pandemic. But even prior to that we saw a steady decline in the pumpage. We did deal with quite a bit high users out there when we went through 2017. Not just this Water Use and Development Plan, but with our water conservation efforts when we were fixing our wells. I do know personally that I did have several conversations with different landowners, and they found, you know, leaks on their irrigation systems. Some of them had removed a lot of their landscaping, found out how much they were really paying for their water. And I'm guessing that there's a significant amount of water savings, due to those efforts. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, thank you for that. I know some of that had shifted to zero scaping, right, rather than the lush green scaping. And then I just hadI don't know if it's a comment, suggestion, or just food for thought. Kawika, you mentioned the partnership with the watershed management strategies. I was just wondering if the department had looked at our open space fund as a possible partner. I know this body continues to push to look at preservation of specific mauka lands, for that watershed protection. I was just wondering if the department had considered some of that, and partnering there. MR. INABA: At this point I don't think we considered it, but I think we can further discussions. Again, within our funding and our budget team we try to account for that, and then work with like the watershed partnership organizations, who know how to protect the watersheds. MS. LEE LOY: And I think part of that to, is some of the management piece, right? We have the stewardship piece so that might be also another tool that the department could partner with our open space projects, and watershed management, and then the stewardship piece. But thank you guys very much for the presentation, really appreciate it. Chair, I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Ms. Kimball. Oh, sorry, Ms. Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: That's okay, you can't remember my name today. Okay, great. Thank you for this very informative presentation, and for bringing in the State with their input and explanations, going historical and bringing us up to now. I Page 15 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 just have a couple of questions as they relate to the eight topics that I mentioned earlier, to see if there was any correlation there. I have some documents in front of me, I'm hoping you guys are familiar with. And they relate to the issues brought forward by Hui OlaKawai, and they are regarding suggested amendments and revisions to the Keauhou Aquifer Water Use and Development Plan. And then I have a letter here in response. What I'm hearing from constituents in my district, is that they're not satisfied that these eight topics have been covered as thoroughly as they would like. So I wondered where we were in that process, for making sure that all of these concerns are taken into account. Because as you've shown going forward in this great presentation thank you there's so much information in here. But you know, the next steps that you're looking forward to hopefully having, is the Council adopting this Keauhou Water Use Development Plan. Which then it's an ordinance so it's binding. It's my understanding that the same concerns exist today as existed before, and that these eight points haven't really been resolved for lack of a better word. MR. UYEHARA: From my department side our letter was dated February 23, 2018, which we responded. MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah. MR. UYEHARA: And the portions I believe that fall under our jurisdiction, we addressed. I think there might have been a couple like drought and climate change, that it might be more appropriate under the State's purview to look into that. They could probably address that, with I'm thinking maybe the Water Resource Protection Plan. But as far as our Use and Development Plan update for Keauhou, what we could incorporate—and I think, well in our summaries and recommendations, you know, we have about six points in there. And we go from source development strategies, how we talk about to the south, right, of Keahuolu and not in the basil area. We're employing strategies on our side, to make sure that we are addressing as many of these concerns and comments from the region. So I think in the recommendations we also talk about coordination with Ahu Moku, which is something new for us. But you know, we're going to commit to that, because we need to that as far as our developmental sources. We talk about the watershed management area, the protection areas, partnerships with that. And also our water conversation program, that's another one of them. MS. VILLEGAS: Great. I'm so glad you brought up the water conversation program, and conversation. We've spent a lot of time talking about wastewater up here, and the need to utilize the water that is currently being, you know essentially wasted instead of being reused, which would create mitigation to kind of low-lying fruit. But one of the comments I've received, was that water supply wasn't really there wasn't as much collaboration or alignment as maybe there Page 16 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 could be. And it doesn't necessarily fall under your guys jurisdiction, to help with mitigating our wastewater, you know, from let's say R-2 to R-1 at Kealakehe Wastewater Treatment Facility. And yet it meets the goals of your projects in order to do so, because it reduces consumption of our highly valuable potable water. MR. UYEHARA: Right. And for awareness within our department, our conservation program, we do have education specialists working on that, continuous work on that. A big part of that is outreach and education. As much as we can, informing customers, informing the public, on using water responsibly and not wasting it, right? So that's one component of water conservation. And I'm glad you brought up about the recycled water. That's something that we know is under DEM's (Department of Environmental Management) control and coordination, but we do support that. And I think our department has continued to support them. We will support their efforts in developing whatever reclaimed wastewater system there is. I think some of the Council may be aware or if you're not, we also had that old water storage tank at the bottom of Hina Lani Street. So we never had to use it within our system, I guess hydraulically it didn't work well enough. So we went through the process and I believe we might of finished the process, or went to finish the process of turning that over to Environmental Management, so they can use it as storage eventually for, hopefully, recycled wastewater. So we totally support other alternative water sources, for non -potable needs. Our mission is providing safe drinking water to our communities and our ohana, and that's our priority. And then these other water concepts, it's not our priority, yeah. MS. VILLEGAS: Great. In the time between when—because the Water Use Development Plan was not adopted, right? It was kind of sent back for more community meetings, and cultural advisory. Can you give how it was, I guess what were the reflections from the community? What have the responses been based on this updated plan from the National Park and CWRM (Commission on Water Resource Management)? MR. INABA: So maybe as part of what the plan says and what the CHR. RICHARDS: Kurt, can you go closer to the mike. MR. INABA: Okay, sorry. As part of what the plan says, as well as I guess the right recommendations is the State Water Commission will, I guess do the outreach with Ahu Moku in terms of a little bit more site specific developmental sources. Because when we looked at the overall region to say we need to find the impacts of developing sources, it was kind of, I think Lance mentioned it, it was Page 17 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 really not a feasible option to do. It's not something that somebody can say, pumping, you know, in this area will affect this spot because MS. VILLEGAS: Because it's all connected. MR. INABA: It's kind of all connected, and yet it's a lot more detailed if we say we found a well site. We have to go through the process now, we got to do an environmental assessment that's one, I guess, point and time that we can have some of the discussions going. And then we need to go through the well permit process. That's where the Commission of Water Resource Management also has to go through the process at that point. They're committed and we're committed to doing the communication with Ahu Moku, to open that discussion. There is one well right now in the process, and that was what basically Leimana and Charles were speaking on. MS. VILLEGAS: Which one was that? MR. INABA: It's a proposed State well, just south of our Keahuolu well. They have a site located. And so they have started to do, I guess, in the ahupua`a. But then it started to expand. Right now, it's all like a work in progress. It's not going to happen overnight. But it is a work in progress. MS. VILLEGAS: Has the well been named? MR. INABA: There is a name. Ota well. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, that's what I thought. MR. INABA: I'm not quite sure if that's going to be the name. MS. VILLEGAS: No, I just wanted to know if that's the one I was thinking of. MR. INABA: Yeah. But we have a couple of wells ourselves, that we're drilling. One of them is at our existing Waiaha site, so that permit has been submitted to the commission. And we're in discussion to see how we can bring this group basically to discuss the sites that we do know are ready, yeah. So we do also have a mid -elevation well that we're looking to, it's soon to be bid out, so it will get into that permit process soon. You know, communicating with the CWRM staff to see how we can kind of link all of this together, since we know that probably most of the same participants will be in these discussions. Yeah, it's kind of a whole process. We're still, I think figuring it out, yeah. MS. VILLEGAS: I suppose I just have ecosystem concerns about the traditional practices and cultural needs, and ecosystem needs being diverted to State kind of monitoring, because they don't know this place as well as we do. And as much as I'm super grateful for the cultural practitioners that are participating in this. I just have a lot more questions still on this, and it's so important. Whoever is in Page 18 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 control, the water is in control of what happens in our community. And so as we navigate future developments, and it's no secret that this side of the island slated for a lot of development, that this gets taken into consideration. I still have never seen the numbers on how many water credits there are, how many have been given out, how many are left and encumbered, which still seems like this amorphous system. And so those are some of the figures that I think would be really helpful, if you guys could provide more specifics like that. I think that would help me to have a broader understanding. Okay, there's 200 water credits for the Keauhou aquifer, and 175 of them are allocated. And just what not, and who gets what, why, how, and where. You know, they're not supposed to be for sale, and yet certain entities end up with convenient fat allotments, while others get none. So in this world of human interaction and politics, and government, and business; and there's big, big, big, money behind this and invested in all of these capacities. So I thank you for your time and attention, and your commitment to the detail. Because this is, you know, wai wai. That is wealth in Hawaii, and making sure that is a public trust. It is most appropriately allocated, utilized, and protected as we navigate through climate change. I mean it's not something I feel comfortable just saying, oh well the State will manage that. I mean historically they tend to be taking resources in some ways. So there is a benefit to more conscious -aligned, and visionary home rule. So thanks for your continued support in this process, really appreciate it. I yield. MR. INABA: Thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you. Mr. Inaba. COUNCIL MEMBER INABA: Thank you. Alright, so we know that—well it seems that we're ready to go, no more too much changes. When are we going to see this new, or the plan, come through the Water Board at this Council? MR. UYEHARA: Yup, thank you for asking that question. And I think the State's, one of their slides showed that flow chart. And I think the next step for us would be to put it on the agenda for our Water Board, have that discussion go through that formal process, that might take a meeting or two. And then thereafter probably work with the Council, if it goes to Committee first, and then request to put it on an agenda thereafter for whatever term needs to be used with approved, or accepted for this version of the plan. So it's probably a couple of months, probably the first part of next year we're looking at. COUNCIL MEMBER INABA: So get it to the Water Board by February or so? MR. UYEHARA: I think for our board, we'll discuss internally. We also probably got to involveI'm not sure if the commission staff are still online. But Page 19 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 we'll keep them in the loop, because they have their commissioners they're going to keep up to date on for our Water Board. Probably by the end of this year, hopefully by the first part of January next year. COUNCIL MEMBER INABA: Okay. And then looking at the map that was provided, just to make sure we all understand this correctly, it's one Water Use Development Plan for this County. But the problem areas was this aquifer that we're currently sitting in, and up in Waimea. Is that right? MR. UYEHARA: Those are the two that warranted for the discussion, or further evaluation. Yes. COUNCIL MEMBER INABA: Okay. And then I guess kind of going back to what Council Member is saying, obviously it didn't pass or wasn't approved the first time because of some concerns. And I think, I mean we've got a really comprehensive update today as to what numbers were projected in 2015. Where we are now, it seems that they were lower than what we had projected. However in light of what was shared in the last Council hearings it doesn't seem—and I think this happens a lot, yeah at the County or in government, that we don't see a direct corresponding report as to, okay, these were the concerns, this is what we're doing about them, or no, we're doubling down, we're good, and this is what we think should happen. So a lot of information, I just don't—even after today I'm not sure based on those concerns that were shared, what specifically we're addressing and what we're choosing to say no, we're standing by what's in the plan. So I think at such time that we do proceed with this process to approve the plan, it might be helpful for us and for the public to know, this is what was brought up as a concern last time, this is what we've done to address that, or we aren't addressing that. And you know, that is just very transparent and clean, and cut. And that would just be my only recommendation to help make it super, just easy for people to have confidence in this process. Being that we're going to be what four years later, or five years later in getting this plan approved. MR. UYEHARA: Yeah. Totally thank you for that suggestion, it's like a quick reference guide kind of COUNCIL MEMBER INABA: Yeah. And that's it. So thank you so much for this information. Okay, mahalo Chair, I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Okay, let me make a circle around first. Matt do you have any questions? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I do, thank you. They were fixing the mics on this side. I do have one question. What was the reasoning behind, or why did the Department Board decide these two areas were important? Page 20 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 MR. UYEHARA: I believe it was 2010, after we did our overall island -wide Use and Development Plan. We did the overall and did a broad brush, looking at conservative water demands. And found that the other areas in the island, they was adequate source and supply for the projected needs. But the Waimea and the Keauhou aquifers, probably wasn't as robust. So those were the two aquifers that were identified for further studies and evaluation. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And this is more regarding the aquifers themselves, correct? Not so much you know, water infrastructure. I mean because in Puna we have good water supply, but I mean we don't have a lot of infrastructure. So I'm just kind of gaging where you guys stood with this, and why two areas are outlined. MR. UYEHARA: Yup, the aquifers. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And no other aquifers were found to be at risk? MR. UYEHARA: Well how old is it? I mean we don't use the term at -risk. It was these other two, Keauhou and Waimea, just warranted further discussion and further evaluation. Because of the supply verses, the demands. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And the thought process also, I mean you guys are taking into account population growth and expected population growth, correct? MR. UYEHARA: Yep, that's correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I have no further questions Chair, thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. And I don't see another, so Ms. Villegas. Oh, sorry didn't see your mic on. I apologize, Chair David. MS. DAVID: No worries. My question is really short. And along the lines of what Ms. DaMate and Mr. Young testified to. It seems like they have done a lot of background and work, in helping develop this plan. And so as I'm looking to these bullet points on the Kahu Nui O Moku O Keawe, where it describes what was done and what the concerns were. It's very general, but I'm just wondering along the lines of what Mr. Inaba was speaking of. Do you folks have specifics regarding the suggestions that these groups—no? Because what I think I'm looking here it seems like the outrage produced a lot of suggestions and concerns. And I don't see them here, and I'm wondering when in this process since they are a huge participant in this. Because they represent the constitutional issues, regarding native issues. And so I was just curious to see if there is somewhere Page 21 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 where we can actually see what was raised as far as the concerns from a cultural perspective. And if you don't have that, you can let me know. MR. UYEHARA: Yeah, we don't have it with our department. MS. DAVID: Oh, maybe it's the State. MR. UYEHARA: And maybe I think I see Leimana online, the State. Maybe they can generally respond to that. (Note: At this time, State Aha Moku Executive Director Leimana DaMate came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. DAMATE: I'd like to defer to Deputy Kaleo Manuel first, before I could answer that. Kaleo? (Note: At this time, Deputy Director of the Commission on Water Resource Management Kaleo Manuel came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. MANUEL: Aloha. Kaleo Manuel, Deputy with the Water Commission. Mahalo for having us. We did a similar presentation, for our Commission earlier this morning. And I shared the same response, which is as the Keauhou Water Used Development articulated addressing T&C (Traditional and Customary) would happen at the permitting stage. And so the conversations Leimana, Charles, and I have been having with families and practitioners, we haven't had a chance to circle back with the larger group to get kind of their blessing, as part of that outreach process and trust building. We want to make sure that what we share publicly, has been vetted by them. And so we haven't gotten their approval yet, and we didn't feel comfortable sharing the specifics of those contents and those conversations. And we want to get their blessing, before we role that out. And so that would be attached to any permits that we would present before our commission, the Commission on Water Resource Manager, before anything is approved. Once that's done we'd be more than happy to share that information with the County Council, and County Department of Water Supply. I hope that answers your question. MS. DAVID: Yes, it does because it just speaks to the process that this is just one part of a complicated process. And thank you for sharing that information, look forward to that. Chair, thank you. I yield, mahalo. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair David. And thanks for weighing in on that. Okay, now we are on the second. So Ms. Villegas. Page 22 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 MS. VILLEGAS: Just a couple of follow-up questions. One of the comments that I read in a constituent's statement was something about the EPA (Environmental Protection Plan), potential finds based on our salinity levels. Are we in any jeopardy based on the amount of salt in our water? MR. UYEHARA: No, I'm not aware of that. MS. VILLEGAS: You're not aware of any. Okay, thank you for that. And then my other question is are you aware of potential pilot adaptive management plan for projecting groundwater, dependent ecosystems at Kaloko National Park? MR. UYEHARA: I'm not aware of that in detail, I've heard that term with our department. But I believe maybe again, the State if they're still online, maybe they could provide some input on that. MS. VILLEGAS: Great, thank you. MR. MANUEL: Yeah, I'll jump in. Aloha again Kaleo, Deputy with the Commission. So yeah, as part of the Water Resource Protection Plan, we identified as one of our priorities to develop Adaptive Management Planning in Keauhou. We're working with National Park services, in that process. There was a draft that they worked on, that identified certain adaptive management measures that they wanted to see included in some form of Adaptive Management Plan. One of the parts of that process is to also include other information and data sets, similar to the outreach that we are doing with practitioners in the region, that then could be added to that Adoptive Management Plan. So it's basically in draft form, we need to get that to the commission. And commission needs to work on finalizing that, and developing it. So yeah, it's in draft form, internally. National Park Service had shared what they had recommended as an Adaptive Management Plan. MS. VILLEGAS: Cool, thank you. I actually have a copy of it right here in front of me. So I've been looking through it and there's some very, very, specific recommendations, and very specific concerns as it relates to them. One of them that I see here is that, "The current distribution of pumping allows fresh water flows to be reduced by more than 44 percent in the area of the National Park, when all existing wells are online." So for me just right there that data, and that specific is very concerning. Especially when we are—thank goodness re-entering a time and an era when native practices such as fishpond restoration, and the regeneration of our natural ecosystems it's not only imperative because of the law, but it is imperative for our survival as humanity. And so to continue to make sure that those areas are protected and cared for, and top of line. Thank you for all of your continued work on that. I was really excited to look at this it's not a super fact document, but there very, very, specific on the numbers Page 23 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 and I appreciated that. And I will once again ask, I`d love to see a report with the specific numbers of water credits. Where they come from, a better understanding of how they get allocated, how many are out there and whatnot. I think this Adaptive Management Plan, there's a lot of really good stuff in here. And I'm hopeful that we're going to be able to come out of this with that ideal balance. So thank you for answering those final questions. Aloha. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. And looking around again, not seeing any lights on. Oh, I see a hand waving. Go ahead Mr. Kaneali' i- Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Sorry, I was kind of running through the PowerPoint one more time. I have some questions regarding the Water Use Development Plans. How does the County support DHHL (Department of Hawaiian Home Land) and its needs for water, and doesn't make sure that we're prioritizing water for homesteads. MR. UYEHARA: That's a very general question overall, not really related to the Keauhou Use and Development Plan. But our staff does work with DHHL's engineering staff to figure out, you know, their land development division, where their needs are. And we've worked with them many, many years, probably decades maybe, that you know, back and forth of where their needs are, where their developments are and what our water availability is. And if there needs to be developmental source, then we let them know that. So there has been active coordination, and working with the Department of Hawaiian Homelands. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, that's good to hear. So the Waimea homesteads is one of your areas that was designated as kind of an area of concern, correct? MR. UYEHARA: That is for a future update, yes, to our Water Use and Development Plan. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, future update. MR. UYEHARA: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So the Keauhou aquifer, what are the large areas of concern in the Keauhou Water Use and Development Plan? MR. UYEHARA: Pardon, what was the question again? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: What are the major areas of concern for the Keauhou area for the Water Department or for the State? Page 24 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 MR. UYEHARA: I'm not sure if the commission is online again, but they did have in their presentation, and I'm notKaleo if you want to go through it. But there was that timeline, I think that Neal talked about. It kind of outlined the Use and Development Plan, and the petition to designate. So Kaleo, I don't if you want to maybe re -review that. MR. MANUEL: Yeah, we can re -review that. I think Neal has the slide deck, but I guess if I'm understanding the question correctly. What are some of the major issues or concerns in Keauhou that the Commission and the State is concerned about, is that the question? Sorry, I want to make sure, and try to answer correctly. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. I don't want to waste anybody's time. I'm just trying to really nail down, you know, why we've specified down to Keauhou. I mean there's a lot of areas of concern, especially on the west side of Hawai` i. And so I'm looking at the map, Keauhou is a lot of our larger landowners, it's a lot of development, there's a lot of hotels. So I'm kind of cross referencing what I'm seeing in this report, with what I know of the area. I have family in Kailapa. There's water issue there as well. And so I'm drilling down and kind of asking some questions, regarding why so much is revolving around Keauhou. And I don't know if I'm being absolutely clear with my questions, but I think you kind of understand where I'm headed. MR. MANUEL: Yeah, I think I get it. But I think it's in alignment with what the Board was saying, is in Keauhou and Kona with land -use projections and population growth and the high quality resources and traditional and customary practice is in that region, we know that there's groundwater dependent ecosystems, and T&C practices that needs to be protected. While also continuing to develop and allow for development, so it's a balance of use and protection. That's why the commission is involved specifically in Keauhou, and I think that's why the County jumped on that. Related to kind of Waimea and Mahukona, all of basically South Kohala is another issue. I will say throughout the entire State anywhere in the leeward sides of our islands, those are high priorities for all departments and Boards of Water Supplies as well as the State. Because we're seeing massive drought conditions continue. And with an unknown climate future we at the State level are looking at projected data sets, to start to be proactive in how we manage water resources. So I wouldn't say that those two are the most important, there's a lot of nexus with water use and protection that we need to focus on now. But we'll fill in the gaps, you know, in the next five to ten years. If you have to prioritize, I think that's where we've kind of focus our priorities at this point and time. I'm trying to answer your question. Ultimately leeward areas based on our climate projection are not going to get dryer, and especially that's where everyone Page 25 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 wants to live, so there's high water use demand, so we need to make sure that as we develop those sources we're doing so in a very balanced way. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. That was a good answer. To follow up on that. CHR. RICHARDS: Hang on a second, Matt. Mr. Fujii did you have a comment to follow up? MR. FUJIL A small comment, thank you. Thanks Kaleo, for explaining that. Yeah, I believe that we have the Fukunaga people here. Original, original, kind of red flag that came up, was that as I think Lance explained, when they did like a full buildout for zoning, especially for agriculture demand, the demand was way high. So that methodology was in a sort of the most realistic, right? So on top of the other things Kaleo mentioned, that was kind of like the big, "Oh, somethings not right here, we need to look at this and take a closer look." And what they found through a further evaluation, is looking at alternative estimates of future demand if that makes sense. I don't know if Jon's there, or Lance, you guys might want to expand on that or not. Thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Mr. Fujii. Go ahead, Matt. Oh, sorry, go ahead. (Note: At this time, Fukunaga and Associates Jon Nishimura came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. NISHIMURA: This is Jon Nishimura, Fukunaga and Associates. We were the original consultants back in 2005, for the overall Water Use and Development Plan. You know, actually one of the biggest things that caused Keauhou to pop out was there was this thing, and some of you are familiar with the, I think it's called the Land Use Development, it's more or less the General Plan now, that showed potential development in different areas. And one of the biggest things that caused a lot of potential water demand, was these urban expansion areas. So if you look at the old maps back then, there were several large areas that were open as far as potential full development. And within the General Plan description, it allowed for a very high density. And I think that raised a lot of red flags. So as part of the process we actually stepped back and work with the Planning Department, and they also altered some of the densities. So anyway that was the main cause of why certain areas, if you look at the planning maps from 2005 or so, it raised these concerns that if not managed properly the policy that was being established for the County could potentially cause a real burden on the, a real impact on the available resource. As Kaleo also mentioned, leeward sides of all islands have lower sustainable yield than the windward side. I hope that answers your question. Page 26 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. The last three statements I think really kind of highlighted why, and I appreciate that background. Because I've only been on the Council for roughly three years, so to hear that background and really kind of catch up, that was very helpful. MR. NISHIMURA: Yeah, I think if you're able to look at the 2010 report, you know, covered the whole island. At least it would give you a perspective as far as relative concerns, and why the two areas that we flagged out were of a special concern. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And if I could follow up on that question. So you're basically saying the County's land use and the densities kind of expected future uses, really pushed that water plant? MR. NISHIMURA: Well it was potential, because the way the General Plan was written, it allowed for different levels of development density. And you know, Big Island being as large as it is, and the parcels of land being as large as they were, we did what we called full build -out. So potential high-level density in large areas, of course created large demands. And that's why we recommended that we work with Planning, and we look at what exactly the current conditions is and how the infill, in other words, the future development as it comes in. That's where we feel that the Water Use and Development Plan is really a useful planning tool, because a lot of times land planners maybe looking at potential areas for development. But we were trying to do a more reality check, on the available resource. And again, we did this for the entire island. That's why we feel fairly confident that the areas that had adequate sustainable yield would be safe in almost perpetuity. But for these other areas where they were marginal, I think that's the ones County Council and Planning Department should keep an eye on in terms of improving, or allowing high-density development. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Because ultimately the water may not be there, for as long as we thought it would be there. MR. NISHIMURA: Exactly. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's a beautiful answer, Sir, thank you. MR. NISHIMURA: Thank you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: My last question then, unless something amazing comes up in this conversation after this. When we look at water usage, I'm trying to gage here how we have to plan for future but we also got to take care of our current needs. And so how does the Water Department balance current needs right now, and I'm thinking about Kailapa specifically, and yet plan out 50 to 100 to 200 years ahead, to make sure that we're making sure that future Page 27 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 develop can be accomplished. What does that balance look like for the Water Department? MR. UYEHARA: It's probably a combination of balancing and juggling, and getting creative, honestly. But this Use and Development Plan, is one of the planning tools that we're required to do. We're also finishing our needs assessment that looks island -wide, for our 23 water system. We operate, maintain, 23 regulated public water system across the island. So there's a need assessment there, which also works into our Water Master Plan. And so that Master Plan then identifies infrastructure requirements to support existing customers, and probably certain areas of growth. That's why I guess we have multiple plans, yes, that we need to always update and then implement. Because then the Master Plan pairs into the Capital Improvements Plan or projects, where we build infrastructure or replace infrastructure to service existing and future customers. So it is I believe a balancing, and juggling, and updating plan. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So constantly in flux. Do we hold future credits for future developments that may or may not be on the books, when we know there's existing need? MR. UYEHARA: I know there's water commitments, right? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Do we hold those commitments for developments, you know, out in the future somewhere? I guess the question is are we holding water for things that are coming, when we know there's needs that need to be met now? MR. UYEHARA: Well I know for DHHL, Hawaiian Homelands, there is reservations within the aquifers. A certain amount that's statute, I believe under the Water Code. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So yes, or no? MR. UYEHARA: So for within an aquifer system at Keauhou, there is a designated amount reserved for DHHL. Aside from that there's water commitments, but that's usually based on the availability of water with in existing systems. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, that kind of answers the question. I think I used my three minutes. I do appreciate the information that came forward, I will follow up with some of you for more information. But I think that was a very good presentation, and I think a very good discussion. Mahalo for everyone for being here today. I yield, Chair. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Okay, I think that's Ms. Lee Loy, I have trouble reading these red lights. Page 28 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Richards. I just wanted to really thank Kawika, Lance, Kurt, but also Jon. I knew Jon back on my days at the Water Board and he had salt and pepper hair, and right now he has only salt hair. I also wanted to mahalo Leimana DaMate, she actually was a former Department of Hawaiian Homelands Commissioner before chairing of Aha Moku. And then even Kaleo who was at DHHL as their Water Resource Manager, who is now at CWRM. And so I am incredibly confident of this report, and all the people who are moving this through this public process. That they have not only the expertise, but have long standing commitments to preserving water. Our most precious resource for everyone in the State. So I just wanted to thank everyone for being here today. But really Jon, so good to see you. Chair, I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Okay, looks like we've come to the end of the conversation, so we'll wrap this thing up. Couple of questions I have on this. Kawika, on the projection of the Keauhou aquifer as you pointed out. The use was less than it was projected, I guess it would be about five, six, years ago now. And was it an over -conservative projection or did something change, do you have an opinion on that? MR. FUKUMOTO: Chair, I can answer that. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, great. MR. FUKUMOTO: Yeah, so the base demand, which would be considered the current demand. So 2015 when the plan was prepared, was based on the current pumpage at the time. And then so with this current assessment we took a look at what's the current pumpage now, and what we found is that the current pumpage now in 2020-2021, it's actually less. And this is verified by the Water Commission pumpage data for the entire aquifer, it's steadily been declining since then. And then secondly the actual projection out 20 years are lower, because the population projections now are more conservative than they were from 2005 General Plan that Jon mentioned, which use very aggressive population projection growth rates. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. And with those statements probably some of the questions of the Council having, are the policy shifts looking towards a little bit more water conservation etcetera, we might be seeing some of that coming forth, and it's starting to see the benefits of that. So I appreciate that. I do recall, and I think this is accurate, one of the concerns, and this was highlighted by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. The reason for concern over the Keauhou aquifer I think if I recall back in 2016, there was a concern that we're getting close to having to declare the aquifer. And so I think that's what triggered this study, and I really appreciate the fact of extensiveness. I think this next Page 29 RAWEEMC-13 November 16, 2021 question would be for CWRM. There's a report back of spring of this year about the plumes of fresh water coming out the Big Island, and the determination of that. Is that science being used as of yet to determine our aquifers, or is that still in the review state? MR. MANUEL: Chair, I think that you're referring to the Attias (Eric) study that showed deep water discharge of fresh water like a deep ocean. We continuously looking at all different models, and available data sets to evaluate how we manage our water resources. At this point and time, where the commission is looking at that study as well as USGS (United States Geological Survey) model to look at potentially how sustainable yield could be adjusted. I don't think there's enough data at this point, and we haven't done enough of internal analysis to determine whether or not the sustainable yield needs to be edited in any way, shape or form. But it is on our radar and we're looking at it, and we're looking at all data sets to better hone in our management efforts within each region. CHR. RICHARDS: And I appreciate that. Anybody who's been diving off the Big Island, you can feel the fresh water. Appreciate that and again, seeking new science to answer some of those questions. I do have a question coming forward with that, you know, we've talked about Keauhou aquifer, and the Waimea aquifer is of concern. That conversation when this comes before us are we talking about the whole County water plan that would include Waimea aquifer, and all the aquifers of the Big Island? Or is it just going to be concerning—are we going to do this regionally? I'm getting nodding heads, I'm not sure what the answer is. MR. FUKUMOTO: That's the plan. Unless Water Department thinks otherwise. So yes, regional plans. MR. UYEHARA: That's what our understanding was. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, alright. Thank you. So I assume the Waimea aquifer, will be attended to in the reasonably near future. MR. MANUEL: Again, Chair, that's the Department of Water Supply. So a County Water Use Development Plan are developed by the County. So that's a question directed to the Department of Water Supply. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. MR. UYEHARA: Yeah. We'll be working with CWRM and our consultant on that. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, alright. Again, thank you very much. Thank you, gentlemen. CWRM, appreciate it. DLNR, Department of Water Supply, thank you again, for this presentation and catching everybody up. With that I think we are at the end of our presentation. Page 30 RAWEEMC-13 Vote on Comm. 494 Filed November 16, 2021 MR. BROWN: Chair, can we take a vote on the motion to close file, please Chair. CHR. RICHARDS: Yes, we will. So we have the motion before us to close file, all signify by saying "aye." The motion to close file on Comm. 494 was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members, Chung, David, Inaba, Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Richards — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. (There were none.) BILLS FOR the Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. (There were none.) CHR. RICHARDS: We have come to the end of our agenda. ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 4:53 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to MENT: adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members, Chung, David, Inaba, Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Richards — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Page 31 RAWEEMC-13 CHR, RICHARD S : We stand adjourned. Approved: Regenerative Agriculture water, Energy and Environmental Management Committee HR/rk November 16, 2021 1, 4, 2- OZ �- (Date) Page 32