Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN RAWEEMC 2022/02/08 2020-2022Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, Energy, and Environmental Management 16th Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawai i February 8, 2022 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, ORDER: Energy and Environmental Management was called to order at 1:01 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Maile Medeiros David Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak to comment on Comm. 571 and came forward when called. Francine Roby Tawn Keene CHR. RICHARDS: Moving on we have Communication 571 Clerk, please. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 571: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION BY HAWAIIAN ELECTRIC REGARDING CLEAN ENERGY AND ITS RENEWABLE ENERGY PORTFOLIO From Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated November 30, 2021. CHR. RICHARDS: Hang on a second. Ms. Kimball before we say that, I'm going to officially close public testimony. Okay, Ms. Kimball, please. RAWEEMC-16 February 8, 2022 Motion to Close File: Ms. Kimball moved to close file on Comm. 571. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. RICHARDS: Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. I would like to invite our guests from HECO (Hawaiian Electric Company) to come forward. To give this some context, first of all I want to thank them for their patience. Originally we had scheduled to have this presentation in November and then moved it to December, and now here we are finally in February. So thank you for bearing with us as we adjusted the schedule. The reason for asking for the presentation today, you know, we have all expressed our deep concern for the impacts of climate change. And what we can do as a County to mitigate the effects, and also build our resilience. And of course part of building resilience, is reducing our dependence on the very volatile fossil fuel market. Part of the reason for asking for this presentation now, was that there was a publication in the newspaper way back when, about some of the delays in potential renewable facilities due to shipping issues during the COVID pandemic. So just wanted to bring you folks in, let us know how we are doing in terms of hitting our targets. I should say that Hawai` i County is a leader in both the State and therefore in the Nation, in terms of renewable energy technologies. You know, I think we have a positive outlook for us, but I'm looking forward to hearing from you today. And again, we don't have direct jurisdiction over energy policy. However we do have jurisdiction over things such as permitting and land - use decisions, which do effect the ability for us to adopt more renewable energy in this County. So thank you again, for being here I appreciate it. Please introduce yourselves, make sure the mics are on. (Note: At this time, Director of Government and Community Affairs Jennifer Zelko and Hawaii Island Director Kevin Waltjen, both from Hawaiian Electric Company, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. ZELKO: Thank you. I'm Jennifer Zelko, I'm the Director of Government and Community Affairs for Hawaiian Electric. MR. WALTJEN: I'm Kevin Waltjen, I'm the Director of Hawaii Island, were Hawaiian Electric. CHR. RICHARDS: So please go ahead and move into the presentation, and then at the end we'll have a series of questions from Council Members. Page 2 RAWEEMC-16 February 8, 2022 MS. ZELKO: Thanks, Chair Richards. We do have a presentation, is that available on? CHR. RICHARDS: Hang on a second we got a little technology, so hang on. MS. ZELKO: Okay. CHR. RICHARDS: Alright go ahead. MS. ZELKO: Thanks, Chair Richards, and Vice Chair Inaba, and Council Members. We really appreciate Council Member Kimball's request, for this renewable energy update. Not just for our ability to come and give this presentation, but also our ability to be able to answer your questions. I think that's really important. And I wanted to note, I really appreciate the community members that do take time out of their day to provide testimony, whether it's written or oral. Because we do believe that the energy transition, and what happens on Hawai` i Island the community has to be a part of it. I think it would make for a more resilient and sustainable Hawaii Island, so I wanted to make sure we noted that as well. So I do realize that the request was for the renewable energy project update, and Kevin is going to focus on that. He is my favorite engineer, and so he'll go over it. But I did want to at least set this up because I think it's important we give some context about decisions we make. (Note: At this time, Ms. Zelko and Mr. Wahjen provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the presentation, see the DVD copy of the proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or online at http://hawaiicounty.granicus.com. A hard copy of the presentation is made apart of the record. See Comm. 571.1.) MS. ZELKO: So with that, we're here to answer questions. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, thanks Jenny. Before I turn it back to you, Heather we have about 30 minutes that this meeting is scheduled for. So I want you to be mindful of that, I think they've covered the Hu Honua issue quite well. So with that in mind, Heather please. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. I appreciate the time sensitivity. Thank you both for being here, thank you for the excellent presentation. Love the commitment to equity, I think that's a really important addition that I'm hearing a lot more frequently when we talk about decarbonization. And just climate change adaptation and mitigation is, you know, we have the ability to adapt we do know what we need to do. We just need to make sure everybody is on board and coming along, so I appreciate that. Page 3 RAWEEMC-16 February 8, 2022 I have two questions, and I'll just ask them together. And then I'll yield my time. There's a lot of talk at the Legislature this session, about expansion of geothermal research, and exploration. Can you speak to any plans that you folks have to engage, in that particular form of generation? And then how has the battery market and storage market, change the need to if at all bring in the fixed production of energy, and we are able to utilize the variable sources like solar and wind a little bit more effectively now that the battery angle has, you know, they've become cheaper and have larger capacity. So those are my two questions, and after that I'll yield. Thanks. MR. WALTJEN: Okay, so you get two different questions and two different perspectives, or two different spectrums I should say. So let's try to address the geothermal spectrum first. So geothermal energy for us on Hawaii Island has always been a good resource, from the time that they came into play—well, in the very beginning was a little bit rough, because that was the early 90's late 80's, was little bit rough. But over time they've gotten to the point where they're very dependable, they're there, they're very good, right? So I don't know if you remember but back in 2012, we did try to go for a geothermal RFP (Request for Proposals) that we asked for developers to bid in and meet the 50 megawatts that we wanted for geothermal. But we had asked for 25 megawatts on the east, and 25 megawatts on the west. We didn't get any takers for the west side of the island. We did get one for the east side of the island, but it was underneath the same ormat (Ormat Technologies) family that applied for that expansion. So in the end when we looked at the overall RFP, went through that whole process it actually didn't really work out the way that we thought it was going to work out. So we had to kind of scrap that afterwards. But with that being said, we're always looking to expand our renewable energy. The one key thing is, we want renewable energy that is cost effective, right? You don't want to get to the point where the renewable energy cost you more than, what your fuel is going to cost you. So we're always looking for that. And you can see that even in the public utilities approvals, with the most recent PTA's (Property Tax Abatement) on the solar. It's low because they're pushing this envelope to drive that cost down. So whenever we talk about it, we talk about that, right? If it's going to get approved through the Public Utilities Commission, they're going to look for this lower cost that meets these requirements. So let me tie in this battery storage one that you've talked about now, because I'll tie that in next. Now when you look at the solar side, solar is only during the daytime. And it's funny because I was looking at the numbers this morning for Waikoloa Solar and Hale Kuawehi, and the amount of hours of operation when you do their calculation of how much they generate for their 30 megawatts, something like about 2,714 hours in the 5,000 -something hour year, right? So it's Page 4 RAWEEMC-16 February 8, 2022 like half right, technically. So when you look at that number the battery becomes important, because it allows us to get more than the normal eight-hour day or 10 -hour day that we would get. It allows us to carry us through, for us as a utility the peak period. Because the peak is where we would have to start other generation in order to meet everybody coming home starting up their cooking and what not. So the batteries are good for the four hours that we add, because it's a shifting battery. Now you asked the question with the storage market, the cost and stuff like that. So this is couple caveats that I would put into with the battery is this: batteries are fairly new, no matter what we do it's fairly new. It's just starting. So what happens when we do a lot of batteries, and we got to end up dealing with the battery after, right? So that's some of our concerns as well, right? If you look at storage on battery, we have that concern. So it doesn't—if you only focus all your efforts on one egg or one basket and you put all your eggs there, there's a chance that you find yourself in a bad position later on. So that's why if you look at our plan, we're always looking for different types of renewables. So I go back to your other question, about geothermal. Geothermal offers that, right? It creates that ability to have something more than just storage, something more than just solar, and its firm. Its 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So it's a good resource. Now I know Mr. Kini probably won't like this when I say this, but Hu Honua kind of offers that too. Now it's all the requirements for the environment, and for the different pieces have to be met. That's why we have laws. So if you cannot meet the laws, then you got to ask the question why? Or if you meet the laws and the laws isn't good enough, then you got ask the question why and how do you fix the laws, right? And that's where you guys are all involved, right? So answering your question in two different ways. One is geothermal we see ourselves if it is available and its reasonable, yes, we want, right? For batteries, we think batteries are good, yeah, the price might be coming down it's getting more prominent. But then it still leaves this question in the back of my head, on how do we deal with the future, the later, get us to that point, okay. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. Ms. Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Mahalo nui, Chair. Thank you both for the presentation, really excited and just very grateful that it's you two leading our local utility. You make us all really proud, and just thank you for being so available. Jen, last year when those winds knocked out power in Puna for a number of days, I was getting tagged on messages in Facebook, getting emails, text messages. I sent every single one to you, and you and your teams made calls every step of the way to update customers on when power was going be restored. So thank you for that high -touch service, it means a lot. Two questions. The first is related to your Page 5 RAWEEMC-16 February 8, 2022 P -SEP (Pipeline Safety and Enhancement Plan), so the first one developed in 2016 reviewed and approved by PUC. How good is the document for? Is it till 2030, 2045, are there annual of five year reviews that need to be made on that document? MR. WALTJEN: So any P -SEP has got to be reviewed and revised over time. As of right now in its current state, the way the P -SEP is, we're good. As we start to get closer to 2030, it's probably going to get tighter and tighter, right? When we did the P -SEP we cannot see—if you try to plan to 2045, which I think that's what it was it was out to 2050, or 2045. I can't remember the end date. When you plan that far out, as you get further and further out the ambiguity of the information gets too great. So you'll see—but because when we issued that in 2016, and you look at it now six years later. Our changes hasn't been so great that the plan kind of shifts out of whack. It's actually kind of falling into place, because things hasn't evolved as fast as what we kind of planned out in the plan. So it's still right for what we need. But like I said as you get to 2030, and Jen had talked about it, right? We getting to that 70 percent, doing the electrification of transportation moving this industry. That numbers will change. Some of the things that we do know, when the 2016 was done, the guys working on that plan never anticipated that lava would flow in Leilani Estates and take out PGV (Puna Geothermal Venture). So the plan talked about retiring, removing, places like Puna Power Plant and what not. But luckily it wasn't, because when PGV went out guess what saved the day? That fossil fuel power plant that, you know, probably would have been retired if everything kind of fell into a certain position, right? So not saying that we're not for retiring, but what I'm saying is sometimes your plan has to adjust based off of the things that happen that you never anticipated. And we've been doing that, right? I mean you look at the RFP -1, RFP -2, and RFP -3 that I talked about. It got adjusted based off of changes, one, to PGV, when PGV got cut off. The PUC then said, double your RFP -1, right? Now that we've had developers drop out of RFP -2, we adjusting RFP -3 so that we can accommodate and take more developers in the RFP -3. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Right, so the themes pretty much stay the same, but depending on the situation whether it is a hurricane or a lava flow, or a global pandemic. Just some subtle nuances, right, we just have to course correct a little bit those details. So thanks for that. The other question I had and it wasn't covered here, but it's tied to the renewable energy generation. With more customer -based renewable energy production right, their ability to kind of contribute to the grid, how is that sort of accelerating your work to modernize the grid, and ensure that we have very efficient transmission and distribution to all customers island -wide? I mean are we looking at microgrids, what does that look like? Page 6 RAWEEMC-16 February 8, 2022 MR. WALTJEN: Okay. I'll try, and then I'll let Jen clean me up. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: You only have three minutes. MR. WALTJEN: Okay, three minutes. So one of the things I'm going to say is our electrical system protection -wise, is like one of the best protection systems in the nation. If you look at our protection system, you look at our system operations, they utilize things in our system that is used across the nation. We have protected devices, we can get information, we see different places, and we have most of our substations tying back into our system. So that pieces of that infrastructure is good. The thing that Jen talked about which is resilience piece, there's a hardening component on resilience, and then there's a design component on the resilience. And the reason why I say design, and I'm using that term loosely is the design component allows us to use engineering methods. To figure out if the structures that we have in place can be restored quick enough in their current location, or should we relocate so that we can get them back. And I'll use an example. If we look at Puerto Rico, when Puerto Rico went through theirs one of the things they identified was their transmission line through their mountain range that got twisted on their structures, was not accessible for them to put back. So they identified that as getting the transmission line to accessible areas, probably would have been a better place to go. So we have some like that, right, we got to do better. I mean North Kohala you look at our thing where it's at, right? We got some stuff on that, so it goes to your other point, which is looking at that microgrid-type of set up. Looking at how do we fix it, so we don't have to spend? Because again, if money wasn't an issue, you can build and gold plate anything. You can spend money, to spend money to get everything. But the reality is you got to do it to some kind of economic, because otherwise everybody hurts. So looking at, you know, North Kohala as an example the microgrid made sense, because building the other transmission line to develop that stability or that resilience was way more expensive, way more costly. And way more intrusive to the community, which the community didn't want. So the benefit is trying to get to those kinds of solutions. MS. ZELKO: Well just to add to that since Kevin brought up that North Kohala issue, we have talked about it before this Council, before. And I think the really good news and it goes back to that community piece, the community really helped design the microgrid plan. Our initial plan, because they're feed by that radio line on that mountain road with lots and lots of trees, there was no loop. Which meant if there was an accident or trees came down, the entire community takes an outage until it's fixed. And so we went out to the community initially talking about a possible second line, and the community didn't like that idea. I don't necessarily blame them, and that's where the microgrid was born. The PUC did just a couple weeks ago on January 25h open the docket for the battery, which will serve that Page 7 RAWEEMC-16 February 8, 2022 microgrid in North Kohala. And the plan if everything goes correctly, is that this will be operational November, late 2024. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That's great to hear, thank you. I remember being at an energy conference, almost a decade ago. And you know, Connie Lau had a very specific way of presenting the utility's position on things. And then just a few years ago Scott Seu, saying things like equity. I thought wow we've really come a long way for the utility to not just adopt that vernacular, but to really put some meaning behind it. And that's really evidenced by the community advisory board that you have engaged, to kind of direct some of your programing. So thanks for all that you do, appreciate the update. Thank you, Council Member for putting this forward. I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Kimball, for bringing this forward. And like Ms. Kierkiewicz, I think Jen and I were at a breakfast where Allen talked about how Hawaii Island would lead the way around sustainable energy models. And I remember asking him, I said, "Really, like Hawaii Island?" He goes, Hawaii Island will lead the State. And so the plans that you have kind of laid out just fantastic. And I'm glad you brought along your favorite engineer. I do have a couple of questions, kind of stemming off of what Ms. Kierkiewicz mentioned. And it's that battery storage piece. Because we all know everything has a life span. And I believe us as policy makers the best thing we can do for community, is prepare policy that is forward thinking around that. So I just had a question around the battery storage life span, because as some of these renewable components come in we're going to have to struggle with the end of life of those things and how we dispose of them. And how we would begin to best address policy that benchmarks some of these things as does your plan. MS. ZELKO: I'll start, and then I'll let my favorite engineer go. We do have an RFP team that reviews all of these developers, as they come forward in stage 1, stage 2, and stage 3. And the RFP requirements have they always change, I mean we change them to make them better as we see issues come up, we go okay, the next time we have to make sure. Part of the requirement on a developer is to have those plans in place about end of life. And I believe, and Kevin can correct me if I'm wrong. I think the PUC requires as they review plans now, what they call cradle to grave. Even for these solar projects is you talk about from the beginning till the end in this battery, because I think we are hearing more and more concern about batteries. And I think just myself at home from all of my kids like robots and stuff, you know, I worry about those little batteries. So I think people are starting to ask those questions. And not just with batteries, I think with other infrastructure, you know, even PV panels, I think that's come up recently. So it is part of our RFP team, we have a group that looks at the price criteria, and evaluates based on Page 8 RAWEEMC-16 February 8, 2022 price. And then also on these things like environmental concerns, and the other concerns you might have with cultural impact. MR. WALTJEN: The only thing I'm going to add, because you said policy, yeah, and what that would look like. So I don't have a good answer for you. And the reason why I don't have a good answer for you, is because we don't—right now, okay, so if you take our battery disposal piece, right, the recycling part, where were we sending that? We're sending them to China. So you know, if that pretty much slows down and we cannot recycle them that way, then where do we recycle it at, right? How do we recycle it, how do we get it back, how do we make it where maybe our community benefits and it's not a hindrance. So when you speak about policy, I would say the policy would have to look at states that do it or places that do it. And see what issues they have, and see if your policy can mitigate those issue. So that way you can deal with it when it comes up. Because it's coming, I don't care what we do as a human race. These things are going to come, and we've seen it come. It's just time, right, time and amount. So I would say that would be my only matter for your policy thing, because I don't know much about those things. But I do know that it's coming, and we're going to have something that helps us. Even us as a community. Because if you got to ship it, guess what? That's very costly, right? If you got to dispose of it, going be costly. And Jen's right, in our RFP's we require the IPP's (Independent Power Producer) the developers from cradle to grave. So they'll take care of it but, you know, in my mind, I always think about how do we get to that point? When you have so much, and nobody taking them and everybody fighting this piece that you cannot manage. Or it becomes an issue that we cannot deal with, right? But thank you. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you for that. And some of that forecasting, has to actually start right now. We see a lot of credits go out to advance this stuff, and I'm just pushing really hard on those buttons to say we are providing it at a low cost. But at some point, it's still going to cost us. So yeah, thank you for that, Kevin. You're maybe the top three of my favorite engineers, and I'll save the two for Jen. But with that, I really want to thank you both for being here. And really for my experience with power outages in my district, I've always just appreciated all the personal communication you provide for us, Jen, thank you, and Kevin. But even the social media tiles that is always so incredible, valuable to digest information and what's going on as people scroll through their various feeds. So thank you very much, for being here again. Thank you, Heather, for bringing this forward. Chair, I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you. Ms. Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, I just wanted to touch on that and say, I am also hopeful. I know there is some legislation at the State level, and there's lots of Page 9 RAWEEMC-16 February 8, 2022 conversations even nationally and globally as we look at transitioning to circular economy. And that being the only means for us to sustain the levels of our consumption. And producer -extended responsibility, making sure that whoever's producing it, it becomes a part of their responsibility to refurbish these things. And so there is a no away, and we know that. So it's wonderful that we can be transitioning to utilizing the sun's energy, but when the things that we're creating, are created from limited resources that also end up contributing to the destruction of eco systems. Then it's kind of, how does that really balance out? So thank you for visioning and your recognition, of that longevity of that process and cycle. And I am hopeful that some of these producer -extended responsibility, new pieces of legislation that are coming forward become that requirement. Remember when a refrigerator lasted, you know, 25 years, and not anymore. But they're designed not to last. Same as computers, same as batteries. So changing that paradigm and that requirement, I think is what's really imperative for us to succeed as a society as we continue to navigate. And I'm going to pick your guys' brains, I'll be reaching out to you about some other topics. About transformer boxes and what not in Kona. So keep an eye out for that, alright. Aloha. CHR. RICHARDS: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Good to see you both. I'll ask you the same question, I asked you last time. I don't think you like it, but I think it's a good question. As you begin to take on more and more renewable energy projects on the grid, when do customers start to see the benefit of renewable energy? MS. ZELKO: I'll start, and then Kevin can go. I think one of the things we talked about the last time, because I think it's a really good question. I think a lot of people have it, so I'm actually glad you asked it. I think especially on Hawaii Island, where we had renewable energy from quite a while ago. Contracts that remain quite a while ago. Those contracts by law were tied to the cost of oil. And so as you see oil prices go up those contract prices go up, they're linked to cost of oil. These new contracts as we talk about in stage 1, stage 2, PGV's, amended contracts, those are all not tied to the cost of oil. You're not going to see that go up as they go up. We do not want to see customer bills go up, we are customers too. And my kids take 45 minute bath each, like twice a day. I won't talk about my husband. But I mean this, I think we really are looking towards a future where these bills are stable. Where you know if I'm using this amount of energy, except maybe at Christmas time where you put your tree up. But if you're pretty steady that your bill stays steady as well. And then I'll let Kevin follow that up. Page 10 RAWEEMC-16 February 8, 2022 MR. WALTJEN: You give me the hard part, because his question was when. So I cannot give you an exact when. But I can tell you this, is that with the way the RFP's are coming in and the amount of energy we're adding to the grid. That prices at eight cents and lower, is going to drive the overall cents per kilowatt hour down. So once they start to come on at that lower rates, the overall goes down. I'll give you an example, okay. If you look at January 2020 our avoided cost was at 10 cents, and there's two parts to it, but I'll just say its 10 cents. Fuel over the year has increased so much, from last year January and especially from March through November. Because the highest the price per barrel, the highest point was November of last year. So when you look at that price range rise on that fuel, our avoided cost which is based on the fuel was up to 17 cents. Seven cents per kilowatt hour drive, due to fuel cost. So answering your question without really giving you a date, is as we start to take on and these contracts go into place and they start operating at eight cents they will help to drive the overall avoided cost component down. Because avoided cost right now, and Jen had mentioned she talked about it, right? The contracts that we have that was in place and some of them is coming up on 30 years, some is maybe has another eight or nine more years up. I mean PGV is 2027. Those are linked to fossil fuels. The only way we can change that is either the IPP asks us, because we've asked, right? "Hey can we delink you from fossil, can we make an agreement." PGV has been one of those that has agreed, and had gone into making an agreement that is delinked. So credit to them, because they helping, right? Others have not, some contracts are ending, so now they're working on delinking. In the end if those renewable energy contracts are delinked it will help lower the cost. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, good. We have the highest cost of living in the nation, and this is one of those costs. And everyone pays for electricity, for the most part. The second question follow-up, RFP wise, what are HELCO's goals as far as your RFP's that have been going out for future. What are those kinds of benchmark for RFP language? I'm not asking for what you're going to be shooting for, I'm just saying what are those kind of overall what's driving that RFP process for your future projects? What are the intentions from HELLO? MR. WALTJEN: When we talk about the Stage 1, Stage 2, and Stage 3, RFP's that is based off of the PSIP (Power Supply Improvement Plan) energy requirements getting us to the 100 percent 2045. So if you look at the PSIP, they call out renewable energy on what we're using to get us to that point. And that's what's been driving the number. The second thing that drove that number is when PGV got cut off the Public Utilities Commission made a decision and order or a statement that said, "We will increase, we'll go more than what we had originally said in PSIP." And the reason is because when you lose these types of Page 11 RAWEEMC-16 February 8, 2022 situations like PGV, how do you recover, only recovery we have is through fossil fuel that's what we have. So they drove that process for us to double up. So Stage 1 got double, Stage 2 was increased to 203, so that's been kind of driving the sizing of that. And I would go back to the PSIP, and that would give you like the framework. Because like I said it hasn't changed a whole lot from the time they developed the PSIP in 2016, and got it approved. Things changed, but not a whole lot. Solar's increasing, right? But it's been pretty moving along as it always does, in its slow motion -type of mythology. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just for me is the RFP's when you put those out, I mean not existing but future RFP's, are you pushing for certain kinds of industry? Are you looking at anything? I mean what's the goals there? MS. ZELKO: We haven't, and that's a good question. We haven't specified what type of generation for Hawaii Island. It's basically been any renewable energy, I mean that's been the requirement. But the other thing I wanted to answer to your last question. Part of what we're looking to do is every utility for the resilience reasons and reliability, have to have a certain amount of reserve. And as Kevin mentioned right now, that's fossil fuel. These new contracts and the procurements we're looking for, would make so those reserves are actually renewable energy. Which I think is something that everybody is driving towards, and I think it's an important note on that. That's part of what we're looking at, in these contracts. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Would a reserve be like the reservoirs they use in California where they pump the water up during the daytime, when they have excess amounts of power? And then they drop it at night, to run into the turbines to generate power. MS. ZELKO: Yup. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That would be an example of a reserve. MR. WALTJEN: So that would be an example of like storage. But the reserve is, so if you look at the system and we get, and I'll just use fictitious number 185 megawatts of load, right? So our units that we run is going to be somewhere of the range of about almost 205 megawatts of generation to cover that 185. And I say 20 megawatts, and the reason why 20 megawatts is important, is because when wind changes you can go from 20 megawatts, down to three megawatts really quickly. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just like solar. Page 12 RAWEEMC-16 February 8, 2022 MR. WALTJEN: Yeah. So when it changes really quickly you can then lose or cause your protection system to outage select customers, so that way you don't lose the whole system. So what they do is they plan, right? They run this thing called a reserve, and the reserve is the number of megawatts in the background. On top of what you need to run your normal load, so that in case some generation drops out, you get something to cover. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you. Can I copycat what was said earlier, thank you for your help during our last little wind storm that we had. That knocked out thousands of clients across the island, not clients but customers. Just appreciate what you guys do, and your constant output. And your ability to text me offline and say what's going on, what do you need. Thank you very much. MS. ZELKO: Yeah. Thank you folks really for the responses. Actually a lot of times it helps to get us the information. And we get right up to our system operations. It really is, I cannot stress enough. Just really such an important thing you folks do for your communities. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Likewise, thank you. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you. Seeing none others, we are beyond our hour, so I want to wrap this up pretty quickly. Quick question for everybody's favorite engineer. We have a 200 -megawatt grid, as we shifting and as we are growing our population we have the demand for electric vehicles coming forth, the demand for the grid should go up. Is this being planned, I assume it is. And we're looking at 2030 being 100 percent, 2040 just a quick dirty number what percentage of growth are you seeing in that 200 -megawatt grid between now and 2030 and 2040? And just a quick answer, because I want to be sure we get to the next committee. MR. WALTJEN: You know, the percentage growth is not large for us, it's not big numbers. But our grid from before we start to get into solar, was set up for getting to that 210, I think, megawatts, right, it was kind of all set up to do that. Once solar came in our load changed, it actually got reduced. Our loads are low and our highs aren't as high as what it used to be. One hundred eight five megawatts might be what we at. So when you say do we have the capacity, yes, we have the capacity. And the reason why is because the load has changed over time, differently than the previous 100 years. Because before that, load always grew. So we always had to upgrade every transmission, upgrade every system, every piece of our distribution for that load growth. And we constantly did that, till we got to this point where the load went opposite for us. So answer your question, yeah, we should be ready. Page 13 RAWEEMC-16 February 8, 2022 CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. And so we're going to wrap this up real quick again, shout out to HELCO for what you guys doing. North Kohala, yes, we have that microgrid coming forth. And that's actually exciting for the community as a whole. Very mindful of the end of life, when we're talking about batteries. And what has been stated by the Council Members, it's not just about the capital investment up front, but then what. The George Will question, then what, what do we do with these batteries and so on. I'm happy that we're planning on that going forward. One other thing, we talked about community outreach. I think, you know when we did that on a radio show two weeks ago now. We talked about the safety, we've had some again, community reminders of safety. So I'd encourage you to do more community outreach, and just remind people to be mindful around power lines, when they go down for the storms and all that. So with that we have a motion on the floor to close file, all in favor please say "aye." Vote on Comm. 571: The motion to close file on Comm. 571 was carried by Filed the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members, Chung, David, Inaba, Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas, and Chair Richards — 8 Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Lee Loy — 1. Excused: None. CHR. RICHARDS: We are at the end of our agenda. ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 2:16 p.m., Mr. Inaba moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. Kimball and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members, Chung, David, Inaba, Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas, and Chair Richards — 8 Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Lee Loy — 1. Excused: None. Page 14 RAWEEMC-16 CHR. RICHARDS: We stand adjourned. Approved: Mr. Herbert M. "T m" Richards, III, Chair Regenerative Agriculture, Water, Energy and Environmental Management Committee HR/rk (Date) February 8, 2022 Page 15