HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN FC 2021/04/13, 14 and 15 2020-2022 Sp. Finance Committee on Finance
Stn Session
Special Meeting
Departmental Budget and Program Reviews
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaii
April 13, 2021
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Finance was called to order at
ORDER: 9:04 a.m. in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Mr. Matt Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder,
Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Mr. Matt Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder, Chair
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Vice Chair
Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member
Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member (came in later)
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards III, Member (came in later)
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (via videoconference)
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And then let's go right to first order of
business.
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
FC-8 April 13,2021
Bill 21: ESTABLISHES AN OPERATING BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII
FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2021, TO JUNE 30, 2022
From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated March 1, 2021. The balanced budget
includes estimated revenues and appropriations of$590,800,952; which represents
a proposed 0.8 percent increase compared to the Fiscal Year 2020-2021 Operating
Budget.
Reference: Comm. 103
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder(B/R)
and
Comm. 103.1: From Finance Director Deanna S. Sako, dated March 1, 2021, transmitting reports
entitled, Departmental& Agencies'Six Month Progress Report on Program
Objectives for Fiscal Year 2020-2021 and Final Status Report on Program
Objectives for Fiscal Year 2019-2020.
CHR KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo, Mr. Clerk. May I have a motion
to forward Bill 21, the proposed Operating Budget, to Council with a favorable
recommendation and file all related communications?
Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend passage of Bill 21 on
first reading. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz.
Bill 22: RELATES TO PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS AND FINANCING THEREOF FOR
THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2021, TO JUNE 30, 2022
From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated March 1, 2021, transmitting the proposed
Capital Budget for FY 2021-2022 and the Capital Improvements Program for
the next six years from Fiscal Year 2021-2022 to 2026-2027, which includes
66 projects requiring a total appropriation of$188.78 million. Approximately
$129.56 million are intended to be funded in whole or part by bonds, $3.1 million
to be funded by Federal Grants, and $56.12 million to be funded by the State
Revolving Loan Fund or State Capital Improvement Projects.
Reference: Comm. 104
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder(B/R)
CHR KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo, Mr. Clerk. May I have a motion
to forward Bill 22, the proposed Capital Budget, to Council with a favorable
recommendation?
Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend passage of Bill 22 on
first reading. Seconded by Ms. Kimball.
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FC-8 April 13,2021
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I think we can move on to the first
department of the day, which would be the Mayor. Mayor Roth, thank you for
joining us today. Would you like to come up and start us off today?
DEPARTMENTAL The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next item on the agenda,
BUDGET AND Departmental Budget and Program Reviews.
PROGRAM
REVIEWS:
(1) Mayor—Overview of the Operating and Capital Budgets and Programs:
(Note: At this time, Mayor Mitchell D. Roth came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
MAYOR ROTH: Thank you very much, Members of the Council. And thank
you for allowing me to come and present our first budget, actually of our
Administration. So, our Administration took office a little over five months ago
with a simple goal of wanting to help solve problems and help those in our
communities thrive. In that short amount of time we've taken many strides to
improve communications, break silos, and expedite many of the menial processes
associated with government bureaucracy.
I'm proud of our team and the work they've done in those areas, and I look
forward to continue improvement moving forward. However, when we came into
office just a little over five months ago, we started looking at the County and it
was clear right from the beginning, that we have many problems. We have no
shortage of problems. There's plenty.
Our County is in a race against time with decrepit and outdated infrastructure.
It's not just one department or another, every department is lacking in dire need of
renovation, repair, and maintenance. We have buildings and systems that for lack
of better words, have been left out to languish, to rot, and to crumble. In order to
address these issues properly, it will not take millions, but billions of dollars to do
so.
Our wastewater system alone could be over a billion dollars in repairs that we're
looking at. In the past, the simple answer would be to increase taxes, place the
burden on our residents to catch the slack of our decision makers. That's not what
our Administration intends to do. Our island residents right now are struggling.
They have carried the burden for too long. They are, you know, already in dire
times, especially with COVID (Coronavirus Disease). We said from day one, that
our vision is to create an island that our kids can live, work, and raise their kids
and their families. If we continue to raise taxes and drive up the cost of living, we
would have pushed out the very families we promised to help. That is why we
need to rethink the say we'll handle our toughest physical problems.
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Hence, we find ourselves in really a precarious situation. One that calls our needs
to be creative and innovative; to think outside the box and forge new partnerships.
Ones that allow us to work in concert with our community and various
organizations to help tackle the problems we're facing today so that our children
will have less problems tomorrow.
The status quo has left us with more problems than solutions, and I believe that
we're better than that. I believe that if we work together and shy away from
playing politics, we'll advance this County and solve its greatest problems. But
we have to do it together. We have to come together for the common good of our
community. For the people that elected us here in the first place. The ones who
are longing for leadership that has no hidden agenda other than to make our lives
a little bit better.
If you look at this year's budget, you'll see that's it's pretty bare-bones budget. A
budget that aims to spend wisely. A budget that allows us to focus our efforts on
providing the services we currently offer without interruption. One that keeps
positions without making huge cuts in positions.
You know, as I talk about that, you know, many of our constituents are asking
about our services. Our budget that we're looking at allows us to continue
growing our `ohana and hiring even at a slower rate. A budget that doesn't
account for a raise in taxes. This is a fair budget and it's one that is necessary for
right now.
We know that there could always be more, but we need to be smart. The
long-lasting effects of a global pandemic have just begun to trickle in. If you look
at the past few months of our Administration, you can see what's possible with
collaboration and teamwork. We've been able to protect our island from COVID
by implementing a post-arrival testing program that was financed not by the
County so much, but by philanthropist partners for the betterment of our
community. From people from our community that have often been blind. You
know, we've asked them for their taxes without any appreciation. This has
allowed us to be in only four months with a secondary test added for security.
We're held our Sustainability Summit that garnered the attention of the world and
has been viewed by over 10,000 people. All financed by partners who believed in
a vision of a thriving sustainable Hawaii Island. That summit has brought people
to the table that are willing to invest millions of their own dollars in helping us
make our island a classroom for the world when it comes to sustainable practices.
It sparked the conversations that will bring more sustainable jobs to our island and
provide resources to help us protect our environment from mauka to makai.
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So when we think about the Sustainability Summit and the visions that come out
and the things that we've learned from our community, we need to make sure that
for a sustainable island, our kids are going to be able to raise their kids here. And
that's going to be talking about things like jobs that will bring more tax dollars
here, affordable housing, and of course, in environment and protecting our lands.
So we've also looked at things this year. We've started working to improve our
permitting process so that people can build, and workers can work. We did that
through teamwork and collaborative planning between the Department of Public
Works, Planning, and other departments, including the Council, we've included.
We've actively pursued grants to fund innovation and research not just in one
department. In many departments, they're actively seeking grants. We've sought
alternative sources of funding to help ease the burdens on the County, that was all
in five months. Imagine what we can do together over the next three-and-a half
years.
This is a call to action. This is a call to think big. To look beyond what is
common and typical. To forge new partnerships; to create new opportunities. To
invest in our community by allowing them to invest in us. We have the resources,
we have and manpower, we have the will. We just need the leadership to get us
there. And I believe that all of us have that leadership, but we must lead by
example.
We must work together, put aside petty politics and come together. Because quite
frankly, our County right now in its budget and its finances is in a precarious
position. We don't know what we don't know. Yes, we're getting money that's
coming in from, you know, the Federal Government. But at the same time, we're
not sure what's going to happen at the Legislature in the next three weeks.
As we look at what we're going to be doing to get through this budget, one of the
big plans was using our OPEB (Other Post-Employment Benefits), those funds
that we're going to set aside, some of those funds. It's about$20 million, because
we know we're not getting the TAT (Transient Accommodation) Taxes.
So yes, we have funds but we're not sure what's going on at the Legislature,
because some of those funds, you know, there are people at the Legislature trying
to take those funds away from us. So we need to work together. We need to
dream big, but we also need to be fiscally conservative. We have an obligation to
leave this County in better shape that we found it. And I know that we'll get there
together if we work together. I thank you for your time.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo, Mayor Roth. Thank you for that.
This is your first, you know, budgetary cycle and I appreciate what you guys put
in so far. Thank you for doing what you've done, given what's been going on
with your health as well. So, mahalo for being here today. I don't know if you
want to answer any questions for the Council immediately?
MAYOR ROTH: I'll hold off and I'm going to let Deanna come up and talk
about the rest of the budget for the County because I think that's probably more
important at this point. So, thank you very much for your time.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mayor.
MAYOR ROTH: You know, I'll be upstairs, and Lee Lord will be here.
MR. CHUNG: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to ask some questions of the Mayor before
he leaves.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you Mr. Chung, go ahead.
MR. CHUNG: Mayor, thank you for coming. And you know, I agree, I think
even in comments that I've made in the paper as well as in public, we want to
give you as much chance to succeed. I think that the thrust of at least, what some
of us are trying to do, you know, during the appointment process. But now, I'm
curious, you know, you talk about petty politics couple of times. Put aside
politics, petty politics, what are you talking about?
MAYOR ROTH: So Mr. Chung, I'd rather not go into those things. However,
and I just want to
MR. CHUNG: You brought that up.
MAYOR ROTH: I know, I did. You know some of the things
MR. CHUNG: It leaves the public with some kind of impression that there's
some kind of schism between the Administration and the Council that's affecting
our ability to do good for the County. So I'm kind of wondering, you cannot just
throw that kind of stuff out and not really talk about it. It kind of irks me.
MAYOR ROTH: Okay, well some of the things that I've seen and some of the
appointment things I thought were kind of petty. And some of the things I've
seen with, you know, what goes on at the Legislature has been kind of petty. Not
necessarily from the Council.
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Some of the things I've seen at the Federal Government level where, you know,
we have partisan politics that go on. What I'm saying is this: it's not for the
Mayor's Administration to succeed. We all need to succeed. And we are all part
of a County. And whether you're on the Council, whether you're in government,
as you know, working in a department, we all need to be working together.
And you know, some of the things I have seen. And we brought it up at some of
these Council meetings, I really felt pretty disgusted over. And I'll give you one
example, the appointment of Ms. Asis, the other day. Here's a lady that came in
front of the Council that had eight votes in her favor. She was told that she didn't
need to come back to testify. And then, you know, there was a vote without even
giving her the opportunity to answer questions. Some of the comments that were
made, comments about her profession as a realtor, and that was the reason why
she wasn't approved. By the way, there's a rule that says you can't do that.
And I thought, quite frankly, that if were to be judged as politicians, you know,
how do people judge politicians? They often think of things petty. They think of,
you know, self-motivated. You know, I'm a politician too. I mean that's kind of
the general thing. We are lawyers. You and I are lawyers. People judge people's
professions and discriminate against people on their professions.
To me, I thought some of those things were petty. But I think we need to move
past that, and work together, all of us, to make a better Hawaii Island. And the
situation that we're in with our budget is such that right now, we need to be
working together for the people of this County and put aside, you know, any
differences we may have, or may not have.
MR. CHUNG: Look, I agree with you in terms of politics. You know,petty
politics shouldn't have any part in the decision-making process, and you know,
trying to get stuff done. And you know, I voted in favor of that woman, but I will
say this, it's the Council's prerogative, okay.
MAYOR ROTH: I get that.
MR. CHUNG: And when we're talking about the budget, I think that's really
neither here or there. I'm not trying to get aggressive or anything like that, but it
kind of raised my hackles. Okay, I got to get defensive for this body too, right?
Because when you talked about, you know,judging people by their profession or
politicians. What we don't want to do unless it's true, is to enhance that image of
people, right?
So getting to the matter of the budget, you talked about, you know, because of
years of neglect and maybe even mismanagement, we're billions of dollars behind
the eight ball. So what does a 0.8 percent increase in the budget do to address
that?
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MAYOR ROTH: Well, we are looking not just by increasing it through taxes,
we're looking at increasing that budget at other ways. Through going after grants
aggressively, which we are doing. I mentioned that. By building partnerships
with people that we may have not looked at as partners in the past. And you
know, we're doing that as well. We're reaching out and trying to bring people
together. But I don't think at this time, where we have people that are struggling
just to make ends meet, is the time to be raising taxes.
MR. CHUNG: Do you know, and I know that Congressman Kahele came to go a
site visit of our wastewater treatment plants, and he was appalled. Unless I
recalled incorrectly, I think our DEM (Department of Environmental
Management) Director said that grants weren't presently available. I don't want
to be quoted as saying that because I'm not 100 percent sure. But are you aware,
though, that when some members of this Council contacted Congressman Kahele
to see if wastewater could be looked upon as a possible earmark for the
infrastructure bill that's being advanced by President Biden, he said no one from
the Administration had talked to him about it. And this was about three weeks
ago.
MAYOR ROTH: So I know that we've been talking to Senator Kahele, and
we've been talking to our federal delegation about this. As a matter of fact,
Senator Kahele came down and went on a tour.
MR. CHUNG: That's what I said, but prior to that, the trigger for all of that was
Council Members reaching out to him. And he had said he hadn't heard anything
from the Administration.
MAYOR ROTH: Well, I believe that's incorrect, because I believe that our
office
MR. CHUNG: That's why, it's from him. He said that.
MAYOR ROTH: Well, I still believe that was incorrect, because I know that our
office was reaching out. And I believe Doug Adams in our R and D (Research
and Development) Department has been reaching out to them. Because we
looked at something probably about a month ago where, you know, we saw that.
And we put Wastewater as our number one priority.
MR. CHUNG: Well, you're going to have to talk to him.
MAYOR ROTH: Okay.
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MR. CHUNG: Then with regard to, you know, you said this post-arrival testing
with people, philanthropic people. Who initiated that program?
MAYOR ROTH: So initiation of the program, which the County was paying for
with CARES (Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security) Act, started in the
Kim Administration. When we got to January, we had no more funds, so we were
reaching out talking to different people about that.
MR. CHUNG: I think you might be incorrect on that too, okay? You know, in
terms of the philanthropic aspects. You know, because I'm not a big fan of Harry,
okay. But at the same time, you know, if he was the person who got things rolling
in terms of philanthropy's involvement in the post-arrival testing, he should be
given the credit. I'm not saying that he did everything, but I believe it started
right at the tail end of his Administration.
MAYOR ROTH: I know that there were things that were happening in the
community with Mayor Kim; did actually make some of those things happen.
However, the testing at the airport afterwards was not something that they were
doing prior to the end of the year.
MR. CHUNG: Try check that, too.
MAYOR ROTH: Okay.
MR. CHUNG: But you know, again, we want to work with the Administration.
In fact, Mitch, I've gone to you a couple times, right, at meetings? And I've got
to admit, you never followed through on any of those things. And that's why I'm
wondering, where's the politics? It just annoyed me. I've got to be real honest,
okay. Anyway, go ahead.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung, for saying that.
Yeah, there were some interesting comments made and I appreciate you clearing
that up between the Council and the Mayor, and for the public as well.
Ms. Kimball, go ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. I just want to say a few words on this
subject as well,just because I think it's incredibly important that we set off on the
right foot on this particular process. And this is my first time going through the
budget process. I've certainly been nervous. It's a lot of information, but we all
know that this is where the rubber hits the road. You have lots of wonderful ideas
in your statement.
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We all made important campaign promises to our constituents, but this is where
those values come to fruition in this budget. And so, let's all agree that we all are
coming from a place of goodness, which is the intention to do well for the people
of this County, to protect human health and safety, and that these next few days as
we go through the budget process, we are going to argue with you and your
departments over each of these items. But none of that comes from a place of
political leverage. It comes from a place of all of us wanting to do our very best
for this community.
And perhaps having different ideas on how to get there. And the discussion of
those ideas in this forum is intended to be constructive and will be constructive.
And so, on behalf of our other members on this Council, I just want to share that
we will be asking the difficult questions, but none of that comes from a place of
animosity, or resentment, or retaliation. It comes from a place of goodness to do
the best for this community. Mahalo, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Anyone else.
Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. And maybe this is more of a call out to your
departments and your agencies as they come forward. You mentioned that there's
no shortage of problems, and that we're breaking down silos. And I'm directing
this to you, but I know your Administration is looking. Some of the hard
questions that will be asked is, how does this budget reflect those goals of
breaking down silos, looking at new partnerships, but more importantly, I heard
you say that the status quo is not good enough. And I hope that no agency comes
in front of us and says, "This is a status quo budget."
But if I may finish Mayor, and I understand that this is a budget that came, was
kind of borne out of a different administration. And I know we're trying to hold
the line. But there are a number of lessons learned, teaching moments through the
pandemic, that gives us a huge opportunity to augment and pivot to address the
needs of our community while spring boarding us forward.
And so I just wanted to see some of that foreshadowing, because this was where
you set that tempo, right, is the foreshadowing of all of your agencies coming
forward. And yes, we're going to ask hard questions. But as you set the tempo
for the Administration, I wanted to kind of air where I will be coming from.
That's the lens I'm looking at, is how are we shifting to provide for our
community having learned all the lessons.
I know you touched on that Mayor with the permitting system, you know, the
philanthropical dollars. But from what I can see, some of those opportunities are
missing in our budget right now. Thank you, Chair. I yield.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else,
no? Mayor,just from my lens, this is my second term, so this is my third budget
review. But what I've come to learn—and we've had discussions before when
you were in the Prosecuting Attorney's Office, and you invited us over to meet
with you and discussed your budget then but I've always held the line that we're
all here for the common good, and all of our interest is to make sure that we take
the people of Hawaii, especially Hawaii County. But within this system,
political system, governmental, bureaucracy, whatever you want to call it, there's
a check and a balance. And that is, the Mayor provides the budget, and the
Council approves the budget. I mean ultimately that's what we do. And it's a
back and forth.
And we are here. We're here to ask hard questions and go through this budget
and make sure it aligns with what the people need,with what each one of us as
Council Members' need, and what our district is asking us to make sure that we
provide within this document. And so the comments today I think were very
clear. We're here to work with you, but we also have to ensure that the people
who vote for us, who voted for you, get what they need when we're done on
June 30''.
So, I appreciate your comment and questions. I know it's tense, you know, but
this has been a hard year. And here we are at the end of COVID. I mean not the
end. Hopefully, the end of COVID, looking at a budget that reflects an economy
that is, you know, not in the best state. So, thank you for being here today.
Mr. Chung, did you have anything else you want to say?
MR. CHUNG: Yeah,just so that I'm not accused of playing petty politics, I just
wanted to make one clarification. You know, I'm getting guys fact-checking for
me upstairs, right? And I want to apologize on one matter. The post-arrival
testing, okay. The philanthropical aspect came on board during your time. I just
wanted to make that clear to everybody, okay? Alright, thank you.
MAYOR ROTH: Good luck and thank you all for your time.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Oh, Ms. Villegas, sorry, I forgot about you,
I apologize.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Mayor Roth, for being here; taking this time and
approaching us with what is a challenging, which were some challenging
statements. But I humbly come and present to all of us, the opportunity to
remember as we look at these numbers, and while this is a fiscal document talking
about specific amounts of money, I feel that within every one of us is an intention
to serve this County and manage the resources we have while recognizing a triple
bottom line or quadruple bottom line responsibility here beyond just the money
listed here, that with creativity and collaboration, there are opportunities to ensure
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the resilience of our County, because some things don't cost money. You know, a
lot of things do, but there are levels of efficiency and creativity.
I'm hopeful, Mayor that we can set up a meeting to talk about energy saving
performance contracts and some of the other new ways for municipalities to fund
infrastructure improvement projects. You know, there have been, as has already
been recognized today, there have been some hiccups and unfortunate political
maneuverings or perceived agendas. We're all human and we all, you know,
operate ideally under the same value systems, but sometimes those don't seem to
be as compatible as we'd like them to be.
But I am deeply hopeful that as we navigate this budget, even though we are
under such challenging times, that we recognize the resources we do have and that
we are rich in the equity of what our people bring to the table and everyone that
works within our County. And so I just wanted to add that in.
And I had a family medical emergency. I have to be here to keep watch on a
family member today. So thank you for affording me the flexibility to participate
in this capacity today. With that, I yield.
MAYOR ROTH: I just want to thank Council Member Villegas. I agree with
just about everything she said. Sorry for your family matter and I know how
those things are. But I did want to say that one of the things we are actively
pursuing right now are some energy saving performance contracts. And so we're
hoping that in the next couple of months that we will have some RFP's (Requests
for Proposals) going out to save us some money in various ways. And these are
contracts where we are looking at ways of saving our environment by saving
money also in our economy. So I know I've talked to Ms. Villegas about that,
and we have some people that are coming in and talking to us, and we're looking
forward to pursuing a lot of those things in the next several months. So, thank
you for bringing that, Ms. Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Mayor Roth. And with that, I would ask then that
my hope would be to be included, because I've been doing a lot of work with
DEM and just a lot of research. So I would hope that you might reach out, and
we might have an opportunity to sit down and go over some of the things that
have been covered. I just would call out on that as the opportunity to eliminate
silos in some of those capacities, so that there is less duplication of work and
more consistency, and efficiency, and collaboration there. So I'll look forward to
reaching out to your office and connecting on those topics.
MAYOR ROTH: Alright, sounds good. Thank you everybody.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo, Mayor and mahalo, Ms. Villegas.
Okay, that would lead us to our first department of the day. Ms. Deanna Sako,
please come and talk to us about the Department of Finance. Thank you for being
here today.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: Good morning, everybody.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Good morning. I just have a quick
question, given that there's an Office of Management as well. Do we discuss that
with you, because we're not going to be discussing that with the Mayor's Office?
MS. SAKO: You guys can. Historically, I think the Mayor hasn't necessarily
questioned the Council's budget and they haven't asked too many questions about
the Mayor's budget. But if you guys do have specific questions, we're happy to
answer them.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you.
MS. SAKO: And Lee Lord is here too.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much. Okay, you did
provide us with a PowerPoint presentation, I believe.
MS. SAKO: Yeah, mostly about General Fund. Obviously, the budget does
cover the General Fund and 13 other funds as well. So that was the part that's
about 0.8 percent higher than last year, or $4.8 million. But the General Fund was
the one that's primarily funded by the real property taxes and what typically the
Council tends to be concerned with.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you
MS. SAKO: Let's see if we can get it going.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako provided a PowerPoint
presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the
presentation, please see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file
in the Clerk's Office or navigate to the Council's video archives online
from the County's homepage at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A hard copy of
the presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 103.7.)
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FC-8 April 13,2021
MS. SAKO: So those are just some of the highlights of the General Fund, but
we're happy to answer any questions on the Finance budget, on the Miscellaneous
section and/or anything else you guys might have.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Deanna. I'd like to go the
Council Members if there's any questions. Mr. Inaba, go ahead.
MR. INABA: Sorry, I don't know if this was supposed to be asked prior, but I
know you're here probably speaking for the Mayor's budget as well. And then
looking at the different positions in the Mayor's Office, I just had a question. I
see that there is four Executive Assistant III's, and an aide. So I'm just wondering
position-wise, I just find it a little bit interesting that assistants have aides, and I'm
wondering how does that work? Because based on the assistants I've seen so far,
I don't know that their kuleana really requires an extra position to have an aide.
And it's a manini thing because it's just one aide. And it's not coming for
anyone's job, but it's just questions I have in looking through this budget.
MS. SAKO: So just like how the Council Members have aides, you know, the
Mayor has like his secretary and whatnot; but the Executive Assistants tend to be
more productive when they have someone helping them to answer the phone calls
and organizing meetings and doing things like that. So that person is just an
additional valuable member of the team that assists the community as well.
MR. INABA: Okay, and is this aide shared or is it assigned to a specific ?
MS. SAKO: Shared among all the EA's (Executive Assistants).
MR. INABA: Okay. Alrighty, thank you, that's all right now.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Council, anything
else? Wow, okay. I had a few questions, Deanna.
MS. SAKO: Sure.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so we talked about decrease in
revenues, you know, minus $20 million in TAT. I looked over the expected
estimated revenues for 2021-2022, balancing against 2019-2020. I mean we just
had COVID. It's going to blast our economy. We're very aware of that. What
are we looking at as far our RPT or Real Property Tax? I mean we have an
estimate of$339 million, actual. And in 2019-2020 CERT (Community
Emergency Response Team)program, it was $323 million. Did we increase by,
you know, that$17, $16 million? Or where do we sit right now?
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MS. SAKO: So for fiscal year 2021, we budgeted $329 million. That included
that seven percent reduction for expected uncollectables. We did, indeed not
collect everything that we billed, some people had difficulties paying. We are
working with those taxpayers as much as we can.
So for the coming year, we continue to budget for uncollectible percentage, and
the increase represents the increase in values that we're seeing around the island,
based on sales.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And so $339 million, we're going to stick
with that number for right now for that estimate?
MS. SAKO: For right now, yeah. The real property tax values have not been
certified yet. That won't happen till next week or the week after.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. And then just running
down our, you know, General Fund. I mean things like liquor license fees, where
in fiscal year 2019-2020 we saw $1.7 million in revenue, but we're estimating
$2.1 million in revenue this year. And that's a pretty substantial step up. And
then given that a lot of restaurants and bars have seen less than expected revenue
or just straight out closed. I'm just wondering about the increase in revenue as
being stated.
MS. SAKO: So, you probably might want to talk to Gerald Takase when he
comes before Council. That's specifically by Liquor. As you might remember,
the Liquor fund is not a fund. It's part of the General Fund, but the Liquor
Department actually is sort of treated like a separate fund within the General
Fund. They are required by the HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes), their revenues
have to go specifically for Liquor operations. So they budget in revenue whatever
they need to balance the budget and the expenditures.
So, there are times that they budget, you know,just to make things balanced. But
when it comes time to set the rates, they do look at, you know, the various things
going on in the community, and the board will work with Gerald to set those
rates. So, I think you can ask him about that when he comes in. I'm just letting
you know that one is a little bit unique in that it is funded specifically by Liquor
and they look at that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I saw a few of those where the
expected revenues was actually increased substantially. Special Duty Admin
Fees, same thing almost$100,000 expected revenue increase. And there's just a
few others that caught my attention as well. So, you know, given what we know
about our COVID economy, I was interested to see the increases in what we're
expected in revenue stated in our budget.
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MS. SAKO: Those could be for a variety of reasons. Some is what the expected
usage is in the coming year. So Special Duty Officers can be for events, which
some people might be thinking maybe starting at some point in the coming fiscal
year, which starts July 1st, but runs all the way to June 30 of 2022.
But part of it is the construction projects and other projects as well. So they have
looked at the historical experience. Some of the others are based on cycles. So
some things like driver's license revenues will vary based on where we're at in
the cycle of renewals. When it went to a six-year to eight-year driver's license,
there's a couple years that are much higher than other years and some years that
are lower than other years. And it's just based on when people get their licenses
and it's up for renewal. But we do have staff that track all of those types of, you
know, revenue increases and decreases. So that we try to budget the best we can.
But again, it's a budget and an estimate.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. That's why I'm looking at
2019-2020 when I'm looking at this coming year, because looking at last year is
not a good representative model of what we're going to be looking at this year.
MS. SAKO: Right. So, 2019-2020 had three months of COVID in it?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yep. So when I see, you know, Parks and
Recreation Swim Programs Novice step from $43,000 in 2019-2020 to $90,000
estimate for 2021-2022, I just wonder. I just want to make sure that we're hitting
a number that's going to be pretty accurate, so we don't overestimate what our
revenues are going to be coming in this year.
Okay. Follow-up questions for Office of Management. There is one position,
Executive Assistant to half-time it looks like. Listed as vacant but it's a funded
position.
MS. SAKO: I'm sorry, which position?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Office of Management. This is for
Executive Assistant. Two half-time, Bargaining Unit 35.
MS. SAKO: So, there will be changes on this particular position page when we
come in, in May, because when they first filled positions, they are working off an
org chart and so there's a couple positions that I think have been temporarily
reallocated, and then another one that's been unfunded. So it'll look a little bit
different come May.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so we will see a change or at least a
possible start date or something for that position, yeah, so it's not just a floating
salary, okay.
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FC-8 April 13,2021
And then some other things that stood out, you know,just travel cost and
estimates, mileage down from $25,000 in 2019-2020 to $400, which is a
substantial takeaway. I want to make sure that, you know, that we're estimating
the correct amount of usage. Or is that reflective of us using technology more so
than physically visiting other parts of the island when we look at mileage numbers
and travel?
MS. SAKO: So mileage and travel, we have definitely decreased. Most
departments are not physically traveling, going off island. We are also trying to
take advantage of County vehicles more, utilize that. But it just depends, and then
wherever possible, they're definitely making use of technology, whether it's, you
know, going out to look at things or where you can actually video things. We've
all been doing more Zoom meetings, you know. It's nice to see the Council all
together, but for the first part of the fiscal year, you know, even the Council is
doing less traveling.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then is there something we can
expect to see from every department or is there a standard that we're applying?
MS. SAKO: For mileage? I would say most of them reduced it in the last fiscal
year, so they're holding it as the same as the current fiscal year. I should say last.
In the current fiscal year that we're in, that budget is when they reduced it. So
going forward, most of them have not(inaudible)newspaper about travel and
training. Travel budgets that may have increased or maybe were not decreased to
zero doesn't mean people are traveling. It actually was where they budget their
training expenses. So, you know, even to attend a Zoom training, they still have
to pay registration fees. Those types of things.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you. Mayor's legislative
expenses went from zero 2019-2020 to $6,000 in 2021-2022. And then as well as
the Financial Navigator Program, being a substantial step up to $78,000 in
2021-2022, what are those?
MS. SAKO: So the Financial Navigator Program is actually a grant and so the
expenditures may actually be coming through in a different fiscal year. So there's
an offsetting revenue source for that as well.
And then in the Legislative Expenses for 2019-2020, they either were not
classified correctly, or that was actually the beginning of COVID. And so, I think
no one went last legislative session.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so visiting the Capitol, that kind of
thing?
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FC-8 April 13,2021
MS. SAKO: Right, that kind of thing, yeah.
(2) Department of Finance and(3) Miscellaneous (debt service, benefits, etc.):
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Department of Finance then, thank
you for those answers. Finance,just as a reference, there's a number of
departments that have a student helper position. Some listed as vacant, some not,
but I don't know what that cost is for the County.
MS. SAKO: That cost is covered under Department of Human Resources and it's
actually, I want to say, about$50,000-ish total. They pay for that program with
Hawaii Community College, I believe. And then distribute them throughout the
County. So let's say Finance may have a student helper, but the salary is actually
paid for by Department of Human Resources to provide students an opportunity to
get work experience by learning.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so when we see a student helper
position, and I'm looking at Vehicle Reg. and Licensing Division, they have a
student helper listed as vacant, but it's not unfunded.
MS. SAKO: Right. There's actually never a dollar amount there. I know it's
hard to tell on this sheet, but yeah, it's budgeted at zero.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, there's no dollar amount for that
helper position?
MS. SAKO: Correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. And then, I just had
some questions for Finance. If I were to pick one, Accounts and OCE (Other
Current Expenses) under, this is the Department 121 for Finance.
MS. SAKO: Right.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, looks like pretty large accounting
system lease, $250,000? And just give me an explanation for that,please?
MS. SAKO: So, we'll actually be done paying off the EnerGov system halfway
through next fiscal year, so we took those dollars that we've been using to lease
that system, a financing lease of course, and put those in the Finance budget
because our software for our entire County system including Human Resources
and payroll is really end of life. The vendor is no longer supporting it and making
upgrades to it. So we need to get off that system and work on getting a new
system.
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FC-8 April 13,2021
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Is that able to tie into, like we talked about
more of a transparent online basis?
MS. SAKO: Yeah. So things would be more online and be able to talk to each
other and update reports more easily. Or that's the intention. You know, what we
can afford. I mean, what's out there is a lot. What we can afford, that's what it's
going to come down to.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, and can the public tie into that
system at all? So we can kind of move towards ?
MS. SAKO: We'll make reports available online,but you know, it is our
accounting system, and we need to be sure that things are not accidentally touched
or changed. So we do have good internal controls over that. But reports will be
available. And we're just at the very early part of these stages. So you know, It's
not like I have this entire vision, but I know having more data available is very
important.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, Real Property Tax OCE,
Miscellaneous Contract Services. Looks like $537,000 for a CLT (Central Limit
Theorem) Software license maintenance agreement.
MS. SAKO: That is our IAS (Integrated Automation System) world system and
those are their annual fees that we have to pay to maintain that system, as well as
improvements to the system in order to accommodate the new taxing structure
when the two-tier system was implemented. We did it manually this last year, but
we cannot continually keep doing those calculations manually.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Title Reports, $800,000. I'm
looking at where we had real substantial increases. Yeah, these are large,
MS. SAKO: So, what's kind of important too, it's not just 115 or Miscellaneous
Contract, but the title of that account. So the real property tax sale cost and
expenses is what that is. And so we have not been able to have tax sales due to
the moratorium on foreclosures through COVID. So we did have one in fiscal
year 2020 and then we stopped. And then we have not had any in fiscal year
2021, but we are going to try and do those again come fiscal year 2022. But it
will depend on where we are at with COVID and the Governor's proclamation.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, because I saw some other references
to RPT sale costs going up and trying to figure out why we're seeing that increase
there.
MS. SAKO: So, there's actually an offsetting revenue and expense. So you
either increase both or decrease both, but it doesn't have an impact on the budget
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FC-8 April 13,2021
per se. You know, because whatever cost we spend on the tax sale are recovered
through the proceeds from the auction.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Oh good, there's questions again. Good,
okay, I'm going to yield for now and let other people go. Thank you. Who had
their light on first? Aaron, go ahead, Mr. Chung.
Return to Mayor's Overview:
MR. CHUNG: Thank you. Well, first of all I did a further fact check on the
philanthropy part, right? I was right the first time. And you know why, because
we've got to give credit where credit is due, right? Obviously, and so to that
extent, I have to withdraw my apologies. So you guys can convey that to the
Mayor. And if I am wrong, I will apologize again. Alright?
MS. SAKO: I think you might be wrong on certain pieces of that, but I do not
want to get into an extended discussion on it. So we can discuss it later. But do
you have other things you'd like to discuss?
MR. CHUNG: It might be like part true, part not true, we'll see. But I know the
philanthropic part started with Harry, right?
MS. SAKO: It did. Pieces of it.
MR. CHUNG: So anyway, Deanna, you know, you have a wealth of experience
and knowledge. Okay, so I'm going to try to tap into that. Mitch—and you heard
our discussion, right? He said we're billions of dollars behind, you know, in
terms of repair, maintenance and such. But he also said that, you know, in light of
my question about, well, how do you address that with a 0.8 increase in the
budget? And he said, well, they're going to look for grants and other things like
that.
But that could also be said for all of the past Administrations, right? Not taking
real aggressive action in trying to address things with our own budget but relying
on the possibility that we are going to get grants. So same rhetoric. What can we
do, if anything at all, to at least try to you know, we cannot make-up billions of
dollars, of course, obviously with our budget. But is there anything you can think
of that we can do to try to catch up, get a little bit more aggressive? And Deanna,
it's only a wish list. We're not going to address it probably in this budget. We
might, I don't know. What's your thoughts on that?
MS. SAKO: So first, let's try and identify the specific projects. And I think
maybe either didn't do it right; we weren't listening right. I don't know what
happened. But some of the departments maybe are realizing, maybe it's because
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FC-8 April 13,2021
we have new directors, that there are a lot of projects that probably should have
been addressed previously. But you know, budgets have been tight.
You know, we came out of the great recession. We were looking at ways to cut
the budget, we weren't looking for ways to increase the budget. But now
everybody realizes, right, it's not just the sewer system. You drive on bumpy
roads, you know. The Mayor got a letter from an eight-year-old girl about the
roads, you know. So everybody's noticing. So the departments are preparing
their priority projects so that we know which ones we need to focus on.
And when you have a specific name, sometimes it's easier to apply for specific
grants to get earmarks either by both the State or the Federal Legislature. I think
this is probably some of the best relationships due to all of you as well as the
Mayor's Administration working with the Federal Legislators as well with the
Congress members. All of you have important roles, you know, dealing with the
Federal Government. So, if there was ever a time to ask for the earmarks, this is
the time. The budget, as a reminder, was prepared to be kind of defensive against
the State.
At the time we prepared this budget, the State didn't know how they were going
to balance their budget. They were looking at removing EMS (Emergency
Medical Services) fees, lifeguards, all that kind of things. So we did not put
anything extra in the budget. And if we are successful in getting grants, we will
come in individually with those. We're not going to budget for a bunch of grants
we're not sure if we're going to get. So, but I think if we can continue to work
together on what those priorities projects are, if you guys become aware of
funding opportunities, whether it's private partnerships, or grants, or you know,
low-interest loans. All of those types of things are what we're looking at.
We've been very fortunate that, you know, our bond rating is high, so we've been
able to borrow at low interest rates. We want to continue to do that, but I think by
identifying those projects and putting more focus on it.
The other thing is to really support the EnerGov program. I think the more we
can support the community and make it easier to do your building permits, people
who want to build their homes will be able to do so. And then every building that
goes up increases our tax based. And that just increases it without having to raise
rates as well. I'm not saying to go crazy in our community, by the way, I'm just
saying
MR. CHUNG: Right. You know, you brought up an interesting point though
about the Legislature where, you know, sometimes we're victims of our own
success, right, because if we do something in an aggressive manner, you know, in
terms of getting more fiscally aggressive instead of conservative then they take
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FC-8 April 13,2021
that as a sign that maybe we're okay. And then they start taking stuff away from
us, right? No offense to them, but they do that all the time, right?
MS. SAKO: They do that, yes.
MR. CHUNG: But, with regard to roads and the eight-year-old who wrote to the
Mayor, and everything like that. You know, I have to give credit to the Council,
right, we passed the increase in the GET (General Excise Tax). Should have done
that actually about a year-and-a-half earlier. No offense to anybody, but you
know, we did it. You know, we had to bite the bullet. We did it. We got an
infusion of money. Of course, that was reduced because of COVID, but in the
long run, I think it's going to help. And you know, we're starting to see some
examples of it, yeah, popping up. I wish we could see Waianuenue, but you
know
MS. SAKO: I did. I'll read that, yes, I'm sure that is on. Correct this list.
MR. CHUNG: But anyway, but you know, I'm still kind of concerned about the
use of the word"status quo,"because nobody wants to raise taxes, right? But it's
always status quo, status quo. And again this year, status quo.
MS. SAKO: So, and when we're talking about status quo, I get it. But it's more
as you get the same dollar amount because now is not the time to raise taxes, but
are there ways to utilize that funding, you know.
MR. CHUNG: But then Deanna, is there ever a right—? I'm not—don't get me
wrong now. I'm not suggesting that we raise taxes, but is there ever a right time?
When the economy is good, we say, well we're going to have more revenue.
When the economy is bad, we say that now it's not the right time because people
can't afford. So when is the right time? There's never a right time. So, this is
very concerning because you know, I know Mitch said a lot of words about it's
going to be different, and we are billions of dollars behind and somewhat
suggesting—and I don't want to put words in his mouth that it was the neglect of
past decision makers. I don't see any difference. You know, that's the troubling
part.
But if you can kind of just, you know, keep that in the back of your mind because
you are our financial expert and you've been there all the time, and you know,
you've never been shy about telling us what you felt and what we needed. So,
you know, I continue to seek your guidance in that regard because we've got to
start getting a little bit aggressive.
MS. SAKO: You know, and sometimes it not that we don't have the money
because as you mentioned GET. You guys passed that bond authorization
specifically for roads. So, it's not that we don't always have the money,
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sometimes it's the staffing. If you go on the County's website, there are a lot of
positions on continuous recruitment because we could not find qualified
candidates to work for the County. One of those areas is Engineers, you know,
whether it's for wastewater, or roads, or our various engineering positions across
the County. So really encouraging people that, you know, the County is a good
employer and good place to work, and you get a lot of joy from helping your
fellow citizens.
MR. CHUNG: And I don't want to put words in your mouth or anything like that,
but if I am to understand what you just told me, aside from seeking grants to make
up for that billion-dollar shortfall in our repair and maintenance, we ain't got
anything then, right, from within our own budget?
MS. SAKO: Well, there is definitely still the GET funds there, but we need
people to do the projects, and I guess that's what I'm trying to say.
MR. CHUNG: Billions of dollars.
MS. SAKO: I understand that, yes. But we are not going to get there all in one
piece.
MR. CHUNG: Right, correct. Right, we have to do it incrementally. So we
should get a plan, at least, okay.
MS. SAKO: Yes. So department heads actually are submitting that shortly, with
their highest priorities. And we will probably be coming in with a bond
authorization to make sure that some of those projects actually do get done. But
we do probably need some Engineers and Project Managers to ensure that we
have enough staffing to get the projects done.
MR. CHUNG: Alright. Thanks, Deanna.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Ms. Kierkiewicz,
go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. And thank you, Deanna, Director Sako,
you've been really fantastic to work with during my time here. I just have a few
questions for you. I'm wondering what the Administration's plans are to leverage
American Rescue Plan money.
CARES Act was a real dry run. I consider this, you know, next infusion of
Federal funding to be another dry run for likely a big infrastructure package that's
coming. So is the approach again going to be to engage Council Members and get
their mana`o and do a presentation to the Council and the community? I know the
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FC-8 April 13,2021
Treasury is still sort of defining the rules but hearing that it's going to be a lot
more flexible.
MS. SAKO: So, back to Mr. Chung's question of how can the Council help?
Well, the Legislature may very greatly impact how we spend those Rescue Plan
monies. If we have to go back and pay OPEB, that's $21.6 million that's not in
our budget. There is not a bill that's saying give the counties back the TAT and
make them pay the OPEB. The bill is to take away the TAT forever and to pay
the OPEB forever. So that's $21.6 million that we have to put in the coming
year's budget.
One of the purposes of the American Rescue Plan is to replace lost revenues for
this type of thing. So, you know, if we don't, we're all going to have to pour our
American Rescue Plan money into just balancing the budget for the coming year,
then please contact the Legislature Chair and you know, let them know how we
feel. And we do have people lobbying the Legislature right now, not lobbying,
but our own staff going up to talk to them. But, you know, we all need to be on
the united front that we are not asking for a permanent break, but you know, we
do need a little bit of time so that we can continue to help the community with
those much-needed dollars.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah, thanks for sharing that, because I know our
allocation is just shy of$40 million and so if we're having to pay, cover that cost,
I mean that totally eats up our first sort of installment as a County. Thank you.
MS. SAKO: Yeah so, we will be getting that over a three-year period. And so,
when the Legislative session ends, we'll have a better idea. The other factor that
is Treasury has not put out the guidance yet. We don't even know the timing of
when we are going to be receiving it.
And then, although I did notice NACo (National Association of Counties) has a
call on that on the 15''° I think. So I forgot to tell Steve that. We kind of wanted
him to maybe sit in on that. But in addition, a lot of the funding, other than that
specific pot of money coming directly to us, is funneling through the State. And
the State has not yet made up their mind on how they're going to utilize those
funds as well. So depending what the State does could greatly impact, you know,
our usage of those funds and where we think the highest priority programs are
needed. So we'll work together on that.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah, I mean I think we're just looking for equity. Right,
we're looking for equity so that each of the counties can get their fair share,
because we all have a suite of problems. No shortage of those.
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FC-8 April 13,2021
MS. SAKO: And we are trying to get a lot of projects shovel ready, back to how
we're going to fund it, because of that infrastructure plan that's also before
Congress.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes, very exciting. You know, I want to be real fair with
the Administration. They're walking in obviously seeing a lot of things that they
didn't see before just, you know, having that sort of entre as Mayor's Office. And
so Deanna, you've been a real guiding light there. You know, the Mayor talked
about, we're beyond thinking big, right, we've got to do big. They hosted that
virtual Sustainability Summit. They got everybody excited. I don't want that
momentum to taper. Do you think that the department heads are going to
articulate how they plan to implement sort of the visions that have been set forth
at the Sustainability Summit? Like how are they implementing that within their
budgets? Do you think they're going to be able to address that?
MS. SAKO: Some will. Some may not be able to. There's a lot of things going
on in this first few months. Some of them, you know, the focus has been on
EnerGov, getting that up and running. Some has been on just getting a handle on
what all the problems or projects are for their department. So definitely what the
Mayor said, you know, we're looking at doing an RFP for energy savings. You
know, other projects. But it doesn't mean we're all quite there yet, but because
they're expected to generate savings, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that
we have to include additional dollars in the budget to accomplish it.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah, lot of ways we can leverage different forms of
capital. You know, it's great to hear that you were looking for new system for
Finance. I remember how we had talked about that. How it's obsolete. So
you're out there looking. Couple things that I wanted to follow-up on. Is it going
to include sort of like, digitizing certain processes? Like timesheets or even
routing contracts for signatures?
MS. SAKO: Yeah, definitely. Because we haven't been able to go to the online
version of the software, we really weren't able to take advantage of some of those
types of systems. So we are looking to see what we can, and again what we can
get for our money. But definitely having a more electronic timesheet system and
being able to do a lot of those things, or you know, less data entry by the
departments, having it more automated so they can save time and spend it doing
other things for the community.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Deanna, I appreciate that. We've had it a goal for a long
time. Is there is a timeframe in which you thinking we can implement?
MS. SAKO: So, I'll be honest with you, CARES Act has put a lot of burden on
our staff, especially in Finance. You know, having to find childcare when the
schools were doing distance learning. Yes, they're back in session, a couple days
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a week some of them. But you're still dealing with childcare. Then they had to
deal with tracking all of the CARES Act money and doing that.
So they are a little overwhelmed, but they do know it's the next project on their
list is to start coming up the list of pieces that we want to see. And we'll probably
do a request for information first just to see what's out there. We haven't decided
yet if we're going to get one whole package or pieces of packages. Again, it's
going to depend on, you know, what we can afford. But we know they all have to
talk together well. Because otherwise our CAFR (Comprehensive Annual
Financial Report), which gets audited each year, that has to be accurate. You
know, so they do all need to talk to each other, but we want to get the best system
we can that we can afford, because we do know our dollars are also limited.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks Deanna, two more questions. Yes, I know your
staff have been working incredibly hard. I think the folks at Vehicle Registration
and Licensing have been working very, very hard. You know, some constituents
reached out, several of them physicians that are helping with COVID response.
You know, trying to get an appointment to renew their license, not being able to
get something until June. And so thankfully, your staff was able to help because
of their medical licensing was something they needed to get re-upped, but what
additional support do these divisions need, because I mean they're just inundated
with appointments.
MS. SAKO: So, one is definitely getting schools back in session so employees
can come to work. And the other is getting a lot of—we just recently hired a lot
of brand-new staff, so we are getting them trained and up to speed. And then
we're trying to work on a better appointment system, or not a better system, but
getting used to how many appointments we can take in a day so we can try to
catch up on some of that.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And are all the appointments you've got to book online?
Or can somebody call, like a kupuna can they call and make an appointment,
because I thought there was a little disconnect here. It was only online?
MS. SAKO: We definitely have staff that will help them make an appointment.
We know it's a challenge for many of the kupuna,just like registering for
vaccinations was. So definitely,people are helping each other out.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Because if you don't have a computer,probably don't have
an e-mail address, so you can't make an appointment to get a vaccine or any of
these critical appointments. Great, thanks. I'm glad to see that's there's
flexibility.
Last question, Director of IT (Information Technology) March 30'h sent a note
about some servers being down. And what was concerning to me was that one of
the questions that was listed, because I guess a lot of inquiries were coming in.
You know, is it only our department that's being affected by the loss of these
servers? And there's a mention, no multiple departments were being impacted.
So were there any issues within your department, various divisions where IT
servers went down and we lost information?
MS. SAKO: There definitely was an impact. Fortunately we do have some
duplicative systems, whether it's our records management systems. Or you know,
like Laserfiche where we store things. But staff did have to recreate worksheets,
and we're tracking our time for that so that we can come up, you know, a total
cost and impact to the County.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Of lost data? You're doing a cost analysis to track how
much it costs for us, because we've lost that data.
MS. SAKO: We have to recreate it, yes.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Are you able to share which divisions?
MS. SAKO: Several of our divisions were impacted, yes.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, but you don't want to name them.
MS. SAKO: Pretty much the whole Finance Department.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. I'm not trying to put you on the spot.
This is a question I'm going to ask every department, because I just need to know
where we are with our data and information and making sure that we're making
the best investments so this doesn't happen again.
MS. SAKO: Correct.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah, thank you. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz.
Ms. Villegas, go ahead.
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MS. VILLEGAS: Aloha Deanna. Just a quick question. Can you confirm which
department is managing the testing at the airports?
MS. SAKO: That would fall under Civil Defense.
MS. VILLEGAS: Falls under Civil Defense. Okay, thanks, I'll be following up
on that later. Thank you.
MS. SAKO: Sure.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Mr. Richards or
Ms. Lee Loy, who wants to go first? Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Richards. Deanna, you
touched on it a little bit ago, and part of our budget is the Capital Improvement
Budget. And you mentioned about the department's prioritizing, and I'm just not
seeing it in Bill 22. I see a list but they haven't been prioritized. What efforts are
being made throughout, across the Administration? When we talk about breaking
down silos and creating synergies, the way the CII' is delivered to us, it's just
scattered. How do we begin to shift to identify the projects that create the best
infrastructure, right, even if we put a little bit of money on improving a road, but
the bus drives on it or we create, you know, a bus shelter, whatever? How do we
do this part better?
MS. SAKO: So you know, each department as I said, is trying to prioritize and
then work together. So you know, I've heard a lot of departments talk about, you
know, with Water Supply for example, where their new lines are going because
we don't want to put on a road to have Water Supply dig it up to put in a pipeline
under it. So you know, I think they're starting those conversations. But once we
get the individual department list, we'll be able to better sit down and work
together as a County.
You know, one of the things the Capital Budget does. It's really three years'
worth of Capital Budgets that make up, you know,the entire Capital Budget for
the coming year. So looking at all of those, but also giving the department heads
a chance to really absorb where they're at and what they need with staffing. I
think that is one of our challenges, is not having enough staff to even get the
planning and designs done.
MS. LEE LOY: When will we be able to see a true priority list when it comes to
Bill 22, because as we look at funding coming through or not, we have a laundry
list of projects, but we have no direction? And so for us as a Council, it becomes
very challenging to make a good decision around the CIP list, but also and you
mentioned it, they're here for a long time. And at what point can we say, you
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know what, this is dormant? It's been sitting there for 10 or 12 years; you are
going to fall down into a dormant list.
MS. SAKO: Right, which is fine too. Some of the projects, and you know, that's
where if we can focus on our highest priority ones, if they've been on the CIP list
for several years and haven't been funded, actually helps them when they're
applying for grant funds, because you know, they've been on that list. That's not
the reason to leave them on the list, but it definitely has helped in several grants
throughout the years. So yes, so that's something we can talk with the
Department of Planning about, because they're really the ones that do the Capital
Budget. They come up with a way, not to have the individual departments'
priorities but county-wide priority listing, as what I'm hearing you say.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I'm asking that because in the Charter, it says the
"Planning Director shall,"right? He gets a list from all the agencies but then it's
to advance a priority list, and we're not getting that which makes our decisions
challenging. So I'm going to ask again, is that something we can see a different
iteration of our CIP list?
MS. SAKO: And I think what I'm saying is the Planning Director will be here
after me. I'm supporting it, but yes
MS. LEE LOY: Would you support that then, Deanna?
MS. SAKO: Yes, we're willing to help, but it is a little bit challenging to merge
the three years. But I think just like we have the PONC (Public Access, Open
Space and Natural Resources Preservation Commission) list that's prioritized
island wide, I think if we could do something like that for the Capital Budget and
have each year's priority list, that would also help.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and you know, we've talked about this in the past just as a
Council. You know, the CIP list is a wish list, right, but there is no hard funding
to it, right? You know, if we're going to move and talk about priority funding and
amplify our dollars, I think it all starts with some real projects, real tangible
projects in which, you know, funding can either be made available which
amplifies the environment and community.
You know, Ms. Kierkiewicz touched upon it. I was really interested in the
electronic timesheets. It's good to hear that's going to be coming forward, but
also the Driver's Licensing. We've had a lot of conversations around that and
people wanting to go to the gold star because that's, you know, a different way of
ID (identification) for travel. So I was really excited to hear about that.
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You know, the one question we hear about is all the positives. And Mayor
touched upon it. We have a lot of problems. But for Finance, what are some of
the unmet goals that, you know, you set out for back to 2018 or 2020?
MS. SAKO: So you know, we definitely want to get moving on our new
accounting system to make everybody's life easier. But you know, our biggest
challenges continue to be Driver's Licensing. And not all of those challenges are
put upon ourselves, I guess. You know, we do have issues with staffing
especially maintaining staff on the Kona side.
That's not just our department but most departments. But it's not being able to do
things the public wants. You know, they really would like to be able to renew
their Driver's License online. You know, I would love to be able to do that too.
But the Real ID Act prevents us from doing that and that's Federal law. That's
not within your control, because if it was, we'd already be in here asking, you
know. So we really have to be able to, you know, continue to follow the State and
Federal laws. And some of those obstacles sometimes are the most challenging to
deal with.
MS. LEE LOY: Great Deanna, thank you. Thank you for putting all of this
together. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Richards,
go ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Thanks, Deanna. Another year of lots of
fun. First of all, full disclosure, Ms. Kierkiewicz did not ask about the electronic
time clocks. I did not put her up to that. Though I ask every year, I did not put
her up to that. But I'm glad we're stepping forward on that.
Deanna, I want to make a couple of comments. First of all, and Mr. Chung's not
here, but the status quo budget, I actually appreciate status quo, because this in
my mind is the first one, I've seen. And the question was asked, what can this
Council do? And it's my belief that this Council is to help respond to things
going forward. And Mr. Lord's here in the audience listening. What I mean by
that is that financially, we're not sure exactly how we're going to settle out.
I held my breath this whole last year worrying about our income stream. And you
and I had continual conversations about that. And kudos to you for what you did
and were able to make the projections that allowed us to finish this last year okay.
Going forward is the next big question, and I think having a budget now, I'm far
more comfortable with looking at this budget. I reserve final judgment until we
get through all our hearings, of course.
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But our plan after that is to figure out what we need to then appropriate going
forward if the funds come before us. And Ms. Kierkiewicz and Ms. Kimball
touched on it already concerning first the CARES Act, then followed by the
Rescue Act, and then the JOBS (Jumpstart Our Business Startups) Act. And I
firmly believe like Ms. Kierkiewicz, that in the JOBS Act, we're going to see the
funding we need going forward. I will state, yes,we're billions behind in our
infrastructure costs. You know, I worry about Ms. Kimball's bridges.
Our wastewater is a problem and Ramzi said this. And previous director, Bill also
made the same comments about our wastewater, but I think there's going to be
funding coming forth. And you and I have worked on this as far as the budgeting.
When it comes to the infrastructure costs yeah, we have operational costs, but
I'm most keenly interested in that infrastructure cost which is going to be
essentially bonded going forward.
And thanks to your work our bond rating and keeping that in place. But I think it
is time to be bold and not talk big ideas, but actually do big ideas when it comes
to that. And so I think we as a Council, we're going to have to take some
probably little bit risky steps going forward when we plan on going forward. And
I'm talking about getting big bonding. You know, that's how we got some of the
stuff done.
I agree with what Ms. Lee Loy stated concerning a priority list for the CIP. The
CIP is a little bit misleading. People think it's funded but it's not. But I think we
can do a better way in handling that. And Lee, we'll talk story about this going
forward. I'm agreeing with what Ms. Lee Loy is saying, but we're going to have
to take the big steps. And you know me, I'm very fiscally conservative, but when
it comes time to spend, and I think the time is now, we're going to do that to
invest in our County going forward. And we're going to have to take those big
swings at things.
MS. SAKO: No we fully agree, and that's why each department is creating their
list, you know. The Mayor knows the number one priority is Wastewater. You
know, we're fortunate to have the GET fund available to fund the road projects
whether it's bonded or not. And so, we're trying to come in with a complete
package while kind of trying to integrate that with the JOBS Act(Jumpstart Our
Business Startups). I didn't remember the name of that, so thank you. You know,
so that we are ready.
You know, we were able when we have the ARRA (American Recovery and
Reinvestment Act) funds several years ago. We were able to take advantage of
that more so than other counties in our state because we had projects shovel ready
to go. And so we want to be in that same position again this time, so that we can
take advantage. And if county can't spend it, we are happy to help them do that.
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MR. RICHARDS: And I think that's where we've been successful. I know State
DOT (Department of Transportation), Ed Sniffen, has been able to get things done
because he had stuff sitting in the shelf ready to go. And when the Feds and other
states couldn't spend, he could spend.
MS. SAKO: Right. Exactly.
MR. RICHARDS: And so we as a County has to do the same thing. But we also
as the Council have to help. As Deanna touched on it, we're losing funding at the
Legislature, and we have to be very mindful of that.
As this JOBS Act comes forth, I am hoping there is more direct funding, and I
believe there's an opportunity to get on that, I know NACo's (National
Association of Counties) is working very diligently on that because it gets hung
up in the bureaucracy of the State. So we're going to be pushing forward for that.
And so, like I said, I like what I see so far. There's a lot of details we have to
work on, but this is the time to hear from all the departments, and so I want to
hear how that goes and start putting this together. My usual request, Deanna,
your spreadsheet, the Summary of Revenues and Appropriations, can we get that
emailed to us all?
MS. SAKO: I think Ted is outside. Hopefully he's listening. Oh, he is. He nods
yes. I didn't introduce everybody, but our whole team is here outside. We're just
trying social distance and follow the rules. So just appreciate all that each and
every one of them do.
MR. RICHARDS: So I look forward to working on this. And since I'm out of
time, I'll tell Mr. Chung when is the best time to raise taxes. So thank you, I
yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Kimball, go
ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Hi Deanna. Thanks so much for being here. I have just a
couple of questions. First up, I am always so impressed with how many numbers
that you can hold in your head at any given time. And I mean the complexity of
this is really astounding. And that leads me to my first question, which is not
meant with any offense whatsoever. What is the succession planning within the
department for the non-appointed positions to be on top of all these different
challenges over time? Can you discuss that a little bit?
MS. SAKO: So each of our divisions is a little bit different. But you know, we
only have one, I think, that actually has a true deputy. Like we have a Real
Property Tax Administrator and an Assistant Real Property Tax Administrator.
So those are two, you know, important positions, and obviously we look at those
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and who's in line to those. The bigger divisions, it's easier to plan that
succession. So, some of the smaller divisions is a little harder. You know, our
Budget Division is a whopping 2.5 FTEs (full-time equivalents). So you know,
there is a planned person to take over so to speak. But you know, that's not
always guaranteed. So we do our best in hiring to fill all those positions so that,
you know, there'll be people to choose from when someone leaves or moves on.
MS. KIMBALL: It does concern me greatly that I mean, you just have a
wonderful amount of knowledge. And we appreciate it so much that in many
ways it feels like you're the only one that knows all of this stuff. I hope that is not
true.
MS. SAKO: No actually the reason I know all of this is that I have eight people
behind me that feed me that information. So you know, our Controller has been
here for several years. Our Budget Administrator has been doing his job in the
Budget Division for along time. So everybody knows their job, but it takes a
whole team to build it. We just don't make them come sit at the table sometimes,
because some of you can be scary. Just saying.
MS. KIMBALL: I appreciate that, and I hope you know that this is coming not
from the committee.
MS. SAKO: No, I know. But we actually have a fairly young team right now.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah. Good to know. I want to talk a little bit about the
EnerGov. You know, of course, that's a priority for me. And the other
departments—Council Member Kierkiewicz did ask for a little bit of a timeline.
Can you give us some more specifics again? There's so many other things tied to
this that I think will be improvements for the County for me as a priority. So
anything more you can give us. Even like how many years are we looking at? Is
this something in the next year, two years, five years?
MS. SAKO: Over the accounting system? So we are starting now, but definitely
when we converted last time, we went from in-house WANG system that was
completely programs exactly for our needs to an off-the-shelf package. So the
first part of it took about six months to get up and running. Once we signed the
contract. But you know that process of determining what we need, because
there's so many different systems out there right now, so picking the best things
and going out with the RFP so we can get the best system for the County, that
would probably take over a year just to get the selection actually done.
One of our challenges and the most challenging aspect of systems is actually our
payroll system, because we don't have a true lag. We lag on June 30th each year,
but we pay our salary current and overtime one pay period later. And that makes
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us rather unique in that aspect so that we'll continue to be probably our challenge
for any new system as well.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, is there any intention to do, as I believe, Planning and
DPW plan to do, which is an in-bed specialist with a Technology Specialist within
their departments to help promote this? Is that the intention of Finance as well?
MS. SAKO: So we do have one Program Manager position in the Accounts
Division that currently works with our Eden system or Fresh. And so that person,
as well as others, we haven't tried to determine yet if we need, you know,
additional people yet. First, we want to just determine what our needs are.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay great, thank you. This is sort of a philosophical question.
You know, we're already behind in terms of taking care of maintenance and
repair of infrastructure. That's been made expressly clear. We have a lot of
things that are reaching end of life in terms of infrastructure. And it certainly
keeps me up at night in my district.
And then we have the flipside of this with our budget and expenditures where
salary and wages is the biggest piece and it's going to continue to expand. So
from a philosophical standpoint, what can we do as a County to make sure that
that piece of the pie does not become so overwhelming that we are in a position
where we are still continually under funding maintenance and repair of
infrastructure?
MS. SAKO: So, I think what Council Member Richards was referring to is
definitely being in line for the JOBS Act, but also coming out with that bond
ordinance and having those projects ready to go. But we can fund money, but we
have to have people in place that can actually do the projects.
MS. KIMBALL: So in your perception, staffing is actually a limiting factor at
this time in some of the departments?
MS. SAKO: It can be, and you know, I'm saying that without having talked to
some of our larger department heads but over the years, that's historically been
one of the issues, is keeping those highly qualified people like Engineers in place
so that, you know, they can see a project through to completion.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. I'm definitely curious to hear Mr. Richards' actual
response about when is a good time to raise taxes. I certainly appreciate that now
because of COVID, you know, people are already hurting. But I think this is a
conversation that we need to have. Because what I'm hearing is that I don't see
any places where we're going to be able to cut expenditures. And the only way to
get to a zero-balance budget then with expenditures and with infrastructure
particularly increasing, I mean I just can't see us relying exclusively on grant
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money. And finally, it's great to say that, but I think we need to have serious
discussion about other sources of revenue. And I'm not putting that all on you.
I'm just putting it out there.
One last item, and not so much a question for you but something to my
colleagues. You know, Council Member Lee Loy, you mentioned prioritization
of CIP and I think that as a Council, we should probably come up with our
method of prioritization, similarly to the discussions we have had about grants
and aid, because I am concerned about those being arbitrary. And I think that we
really need to spend time having a discussion about what metrics are used to
prioritize these large budget projects so that we are making good decisions there
and preparing well. Thank you, Chair for your time. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms. David, go
ahead.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair. Good morning, Director Sako, how are you?
MS. SAKO: Good morning, I'm good.
MS. DAVID: You know listening to all the discussion, I just have two simple
questions. Regarding the Finance Department and the Driver's Licensing. So
Kona has had some real drawbacks as far as maintaining staff, and that affects the
amount of people that's standing in line, the appointments get backlogged, I'm
looking at this. Are we now at a point, especially in the Department of Vehicle
Registration, that they're fully staffed right now, given allowances for what you
were saying, that some of the staff, due to COVID, are we fully staffed right now?
MS. SAKO: I cannot say that we are fully staffed, but we are closer than we've
been in a long time, yes.
MS. DAVID: I see. And so—okay. And so this backlog that we're constantly
hearing about from our constituents, those are not necessarily based on the lack of
staffing.
MS. SAKO: I mean, we're currently still training people. I mean definitely, I
mean these are recent hires. I mean, recent from even when we submitted the
March budget. So we continue to fill the positions, but you know, we still have to
train them. And that usually takes anywhere from that happens from six to
twelve months because they do both Vehicle Registration and Driver's Licensing.
But you know, also sometimes, it's making sure we're educating the public and
they're bringing the right documents and everything with them as well. We
continue to have challenges on that.
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MS. DAVID: And I understand that's a long drawn out and complicated process,
because you folks have to be very careful.
MS. SAKO: Yes.
MS. DAVID: Well that's good to know. And I just need to mention that
especially when our older kupuna call for assistance and stuff, that department has
always been very helpful in accommodating, you know, cancellations and then
letting us know. So I just want to extend our appreciation for that kind of
cooperation in that department.
MS. SAKO: And it's fortunate we have the five offices, but all five of them work
very hard in trying to move as many people as they can throughout the day. But I
know it continues to be a challenge.
MS. DAVID: I see, okay. Understood. One last question then, on this JOBS
funding money, I know it has to be channeled through the State. Do you know if
the Federal funds also dictate how they can distribute it to counties within the
State or is it just up to them?
MS. SAKO: I think those recommendations have been made. That's the bill
that's still going through Congress, but I think many people have made
recommendations on trying to get it specific as to how it would come down to the
counties. Because, you know, the State has needs too,just like we have aging
infrastructure, so do they.
MS. DAVID: Exactly. That's good to know because, you know, if left
completely up to the State, really we end up holding bags most of the time. Okay,
for now, thank you very much. I yield, Chair. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. David. Mr. Inaba, go
ahead.
MR. INABA: I just want to follow up and I would be remiss not to echo the
concerns regarding the Kona DMV. I don't have questions about the budget, but
we have to do something, because I'll say this, I walk on the outside of the stairs
when I go to my office away from the DMV's entrance, because that's how
muchI'm like, oh no, look how many people are there. So you know, if we can
get help it would be appreciated, thank you.
MS. SAKO: Yes. You know, what I hear you guys saying is, I can add positions,
and I won't hear grumbling in May, right?
MR. INABA: Anything to help our situation over there. Because, yeah, that's
my situation going to work. Thank you. Chair, I yield.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Mr. Richards, go
ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah,just a quick comment for Council Chair David. You
talked about the direct financing from the JOBS Act, and one of the things sitting
on the NACo Board of Directors, President Biden started out his political career
as a councilman. And so he's very sensitive to direct funding to counties as
opposed to going to states. And so NACo's working very diligently on getting
that to come forth. And so the President is behind and looking at direct funding,
so hopefully we'll get something good to come out of that. Thanks Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you Mr. Richards. Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: I will just add one follow-up that our next meeting for the
Hawaii State Association of Counties will include a discussion of how as
counties, we can best advocate on our behalf at the State and Federal level.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for that. Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: I may as well say it. I was thinking whether I should say this or
not.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I was watching that.
MR. CHUNG: Just addressing Mr. Richards' comment about President Biden
being a former City Council Member. If history has proven anything, somehow
when people get into higher offices, they forget that they were County Council
people, like for TAT and other matters, right? So, and you know, and he's much
more removed than a State Legislator.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Well said, well
said. Okay Deanna, I've got a few follow-up questions. Looking over,just going
back to our revenues, what is our fund balance this year? Where do we stand
right now?
MS. SAKO: Well obviously, we're still in the process of estimating that. When
we did the March budget this is where we were at. I'm actually, well not me
personally, but the good nature of our Accounts Division, they are loaning staff to
our Fire Department who are short an Accountant right now. So I do not have an
updated figure at this time, but we will have it before we submit the May budget.
Again, these are all estimates and projections. But when we did the March
budget, the number we have in here as the revenue number is actually—matches
exactly what our projection was.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So, $28 million, the estimate for
2021-2022.
MS. SAKO: Correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's where you are right now?
MS. SAKO: That's where it was in March, yes. We haven't been able to update
it since then.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. Because that's a huge
part of our miscellaneous revenue which is really up from 2019-2020, which is
interesting. How come there was zero fund balance in 2019-2020?
MS. SAKO: The actual never reflects because it's already in fund balance. It just
becomes part of the calculation. But, you know, it's just part of the way it's done.
But it's always a number we do calculate, it just doesn't get reflected in the
actuals.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. And then, interest
earned. It's like we are expecting a huge decrease in interest earned, why is that?
MS. SAKO: The economy and the interest rates nationwide.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. And then, you know,
one that caught my attention, it's pretty small but Miscellaneous Rent, expected to
go up from $15,000 to $51,000. What are we renting as a County?
MS. SAKO: So, we have the land, some of the Hamakua lands that we got from
the sugar plantations, that we lease out to farmers and other people. Those are
some of our rental incomes. Some of the other ones are probably our radio towers
and the space on that. And I'm hoping this is from Hamana(Ventura)telling me
exactly what else is on there. No not that one. He's telling me what we're
spending our rental money on. But we also have our radio towers that Civil
Defense, Police, and Fire use for radio communications. We do have space that
we rent on that as well.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, okay. I was just interested in that
one. Last year, or earlier this fiscal year, but I saw some—we had some fairly
large Workers Comp transfers that we had to do. And just gauging this year's
budget. I mean Worker's Comp, regular salary and wages, we're setting it zero,
that's our estimate. Is that realistic? And there's some substantial steps down,
even in, you know, a different section there, 341 under Workers Comp G,
$2 million to $2.6 million. I mean, are we covered there?
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MS. SAKO: So, we did increase it substantially in fiscal year 2020. And then we
left that amount in fiscal year 2021. They continue to sometimes need additional
funding. This is actually a good thing right now. So, they've been working very
hard to close out our cases so our cost going forward will be smaller. And so,
we're in the second year of that program, and I think they need one more year to
really get kind of caught up on the cases. And HR(Human Resources), when
they come in, that will be a good question for them.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, and I remember, that's in
Mr. Brilhante's department, but it did catch us off guard. There was some like
almost a million of dollars in transfer orders that we did to cover Worker's Comp.
MS. SAKO: In various departments, yes. So, yeah, to close out a case is usually
when you have the final settlement or payment, and so those are some larger
dollars. But they've been working hard to do a variety of things including, you
know, investigations and other things and getting people back to work. And all
the departments are greatly appreciative of all the efforts they've been making.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, but we are going to be okay from,
you know, what we spent from 2019-2020 to setting a zero-dollar amount for
2021-2022?
MS. SAKO: I'll double-check with them, but where we were at, it was going take
two to three years to kind of get through all those cases and do the catch up of the
close outs. So based on that, I think so, but we can double-check with them.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And please, if you could, Vacation
Pay under Miscellaneous Charges. Nothing for 2019-2020 but stepping up to
$750,000 estimated this year. What is that?
MS. SAKO: So,just the Provision for Compensation Adjustment, it's the ways
that account is utilized. So you might remember seeing the transfers from the
Vacation Pay and the Provision for Compensation Adjustments being transferred
into the departments that need the funding. So it doesn't mean we didn't use it,
it's just the way it's utilized. We don't spend directly from these accounts, but the
provisions are actually the accounts we transfer from to the departments.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, I've seen that. Okay. And then I
couldn't help but notice, there is an actuary study under Post-Employment
Benefits. And the only reason I'm asking is because we had a fairly substantial
discussion on actuary study when it came to lava zone insurance, and it was a
question as to whether or not your department could do a study. But in this
regard, the actuary study was, I'm guessing, was an insurance or a professional in
this field and your department did?
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MS. SAKO: So, that's part of a statewide actuarial study. So,just OPEB and
ERS (Employees Retirement System) and a lot of those things, we have to
participate in the statewide program and plan. And so each county pays their
share but the State Office of the Auditor and ERS. There's a couple different,
EUTF (Hawai`i Employer-Union Health Benefits Trust Fund), a couple different
studies that we participate in and pay our fair share of that. I'm not saying we
couldn't do the study; it was finding someone who has experience in those types
of lands to do the study, was the discussion the other day.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Just a follow-up, Driver's
Licensing. I did have a phone call about three days ago. What they're saying
their wait time is to get a Driver's License test for their kid to get their license is
two years online. And it caught me off guard, but I do know it's very lengthy, but
two years seem excessive, and may have just been exaggeration. But if that's
true?
MS. SAKO: I'm pretty sure it's an exaggeration because we have not opened up
appointment times two years into the future. And so, it's usually a few months at
a time. And if they call Driver's Licensing, Naomi has been very helpful in
helping to get people appointments. She's not here this morning. She had to go
attend court like she does a lot of times. And so, but I can talk to her. But I'm
pretty confident it's not two years in the future.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, and this is for a 16-year-old to go
and take their license test and do the driver's test?
MS. SAKO: It may take a few weeks, yes, because they're competing not only
with new drivers, but also with, you know, other people that may have lost their
licenses for various reasons and getting them back again. It's also very busy
when an entire Driver's Ed class is completed, because then everybody rushes out
to take their road test as well.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so I'll follow up with my constituent
regarding—maybe just try again online?
MS. SAKO: No go ahead and email me or Naomi O'Dell and we'll help them
out.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much. And just to say
this, I brought forth a communication to discuss Capital Improvement Projects as
a priority for each district. And there's some discussion on the Council as to
whether or not it was a good idea or not, or whether that would be beneficial.
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But from hearing the discussion today, it sounds like we're in agreement that we
don't see a clear document that guides what Capital Improvement Projects are
done, if they're funded and how we move forward.
MS. SAKO: I can tell you right now, it's based on the biggest need and the
biggest problems. So if a roof is leaking it takes, you know, a higher priority, and
federal mandate.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But when it comes to the prioritizing, is
that set by the Planning Director?
MS. SAKO: The Capital Budget is set by the Planning Director. The Planning
Director does sign off on allotments; but ultimately, you know, it's a bigger
discussion with department heads and the Mayor.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But I think it alsoI mean, the point of the
discussion that I brought up was involving the Council on that discussion, because
we represent the districts. And so, of course there'll be leaking roofs and things
that will need to be highly prioritized, but as far as long-term planning and
long-term projects that our districts may be asking for, we are the representatives.
So by not having us in that loop, we don't really get to represent our community in
the strongest manner possible.
That was the point of that communication that I brought up. I'm just wondering, I
mean, do you feel that is a good method or has there ever been that kind of
methodology as to looking at the CIP budget and the process in how we set,
prioritize, and discuss what projects will happen versus just being a Mayoral or
Planning Department decision?
MS. SAKO: I wouldn't say it's just a Mayoral or Planning Department. You
know, the projects do come before you guys both for their appropriation and the
bond ordinances as well. But lots of times the leaking facility or Federal mandate
get the highest priority.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, that actually answered all my
questions. Any further discussion by the Council? Okay, seeing none. Deanna, I
appreciate you as well as the eight other people who stand behind you. And
everyone outside who is helping and texting making sure Deanna can get through
this unscathed. With that, you want to take a quick recess, Council? Ok then
we'll have the Planning discussion. Thank you very much Deanna. We are in
recess.
Recess: At 10:55 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 11:16 a.m.
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(4) Planning Department:
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Aloha and welcome back to our Special
Finance Meeting. We are going to resume the meeting and we have the Planning
Department up next. Gentlemen introduce yourselves.
(Note: At this time, Planning Director Zendo Kern and Business Manager
Grant Nagata came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. KERN: Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the Finance Committee.
Zendo Kern, Planning Director, and to my left I have our Business Manager,
Grant Nagata.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much for being here today.
MR. KERN: My pleasure.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I believe you have a PowerPoint.
MR. KERN: I do. Yeah, so thank you for the opportunity to be here and discuss
our budget. I'm going to start out with a PowerPoint presentation about our
Planning Department. So, it shouldn't take too long, but I'll go ahead and get
started.
(Note: At this time, Planning Director Zendo Kern, provided a
PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing
of the presentation, please see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings
on file in the Clerk's Office or navigate to the Council's video archives
online from the County's homepage at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A hard
copy of the presentation is made a part of the record, see
Comm. 103.6.)
MR. KERN: And with that, that concludes the presentation and some of the
components the Planning Department works with, and I'm happy to get into
answering any questions.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much, Director. Council
Members, any questions, concerns? Mr. Inaba, your light was on first, go ahead.
MR. INABA: Aloha, Director Kern and Planning staff. I believe in previous
Council meetings there was discussion regarding the Kailua Village Design and
some of the Action Committees. Is there an update on that? Because I see some
of them are listed here with small budget line items, but where are we with that?
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MR. KERN: The CDP (Community Development Plan) Action Committees and
the Kailua Village Design Center are basically where they have been. There has
been no major changes. They're all in operations and they're working. What was
brought up I think in discussion, was just looking at how we can create some
efficiencies within there. They are embedded in Code, so I think there was some
misconception that we were going to change it.
For me, it was looking at how are they working, what's efficient, how do we
empower the folks, and how do we make the process equitable for all sides. So as
of right now, they're in full operation, and you know, will continue to be that
way. Again,just looking for improvements.
MR. INABA: Okay, and as a follow-up, Pomaika`i from the Mayor's Office said
that they weren't appointing or nominating additional members to those bodies.
Is that standstill still happening or are we going to see those vacancies filled
moving forward?
MR. KERN: We're making the movements to begin to start filling vacancies. So
when I took this position, long-range, we sat down with my division managers.
And you know, long-range was one of them. And so, the CDP Action
Committees was a conversation. And so, there's a tremendous amount of staffing
and intention and resources that go into them. So they said, "We're looking at
how to, you know, empower the CDPs and see if there's adjustments that we can
make, frequency of meetings. And how do we get them more engaged in the
community?"
And so while we're doing that, trying to just take a look at it. That was where I
said,just pause for a second. Like let's look at it. And as you can imagine,
coming into this position, there's a lot of stuff going on. So in an ideal world, I'd
be able to say, let me just look at CDPs and spend a few days on that. Reality of
it is, it's hard to find an hour sometimes, right? So that was from me, and so now
we've looked at it and said, okay, we have a plan, and we're moving forward with
beginning to fill some vacancies. So I'm sure you folks will be seeing some folks
coming up really soon.
MR. INABA: Okay, good. Thank you. In this budget for your department, like I
said, those small line items, what are those used for, for the commissions? Under
Planning OCE(Other Current Expenses) Mileage and Auto allowance,
Section 1-12. What exactly is that used for? Because I see there's only $1,000
for CDP Action Committee, but$5,000 for Cultural Resource Commission. So
how are those funds spent?
MR. KERN: Yeah, so typically those would be, Grant, you can get into more the
details on this if need be. But typically, it would be spent for mileage
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reimbursement, potentially lunch, and anything related to effectuating the
committees, you know, and making it happen.
What we've been able to do with the COVID situation and being able to remote to
basically video conference, we're able to do a lot more of those through video
conferencing. So the budget on that side is something that we've been able to
bring down. What I'm not sure about exactly is how it's going to change as we
move beyond the COVID situation.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. Last question for now, I see throughout the few
pages, that there is overtime listed. I'm just wondering what the overtime or how
that overtime is being used and why it's even being used.
MR. KERN: Sure, I can certainly speak to that. So right now, we've used
overtime for EnerGov. Getting all the data uploaded that we need for data
conversions. Other overtime is basically used for scanning and in-taking. So in
Kona, for example, we have one Clerk III over there; we have 13 folks in that
division. And so with the one clerk it's very hard to keep up with the flow and
process and workload. So sometimes we'll allocate a little overtime so they can
go ahead and get all of that scanned up.
Something else that comes up with overtime are the CDP Action Committees and
the other commissions, as they'll fall at a later time of the day and so we'll try to
do our best to work within the realm of efficient overtime, but it certainly comes
up generally around those areas.
MR. INABA: And kala mai, one last question. There's a Planning S&W (Salary
and Wages account) temporary assignment position. Where is that temporary
assignment and where is that money going, or for what position is that?
MR. KERN: It's for a number of them. So vacancies, what happens is, when a
vacancy happens, we can do a temporary assignment so they'll shift up. So I
guess the easiest example would be Jeff Darrow. He was formerly the Division
Head for the Planning Division. And so when he became Deputy Director, that
spot was open. And so we needed to have somebody in that position to continue
to move forward. So we did a temporary assignment, because they move up as a
temporary assignment.
And what happens is that'll be a chain of events because then a new Planner, say
Planner V might be open, then the next person can come up. So it's kind of a way
to temporarily assign until we can actually fill those positions permanently or do a
long-term temporary assignment.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. That's all I have right now, Chair. Mahalo.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ashley, go ahead.
Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Aloha Director, great to see you.
Thank you, Grant for being here. I wanted to start off with a more existential
question. Talk to us a little bit about how you're integrating cultural, equity,
climate change lenses into Planning's work. I mean it seems really obvious
because with the General Plan and CDPs you are guiding land use. So can you
just talk to us about how you're incorporating that into your work?
MR. KERN: Sure. As many of you know, there's been a lot of work done on the
cultural side over the years, right, so now it's like how do we integrate that more
in. So the General Plan is a good example that before it didn't deal with, you
know, climate change as much for example. It did touch on the cultural
component in there. And so I think it's merging those together and seeing how it
all correlates to a degree, which is kind of my concept around sustainability.
Everything touches it. You know what I mean, whether it'll be the cultural, the
socioeconomics. Obviously, the environment on its own is huge.
So I think, you know, through the General Plan, it's a really good resource. I
think it's something else that we're looking at as far as the Cultural Resource
Commission goes. I think there's an opportunity to utilize that commission to
further some of the efforts that are here. And I think that's an area that we can
continue to work on. Before it's been a little bit more advisory and how do we
actually get them a bit more action-based, which is something that you see a bit of
a theme in my mind. Is how do we get more action going on?
It's a similar situation with the Community Development Committee Action
Committees. How do we effectuate more action, right? So that's something that
we're looking at doing.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I think we all appreciate more action. And so, you know,
you brought up CRC (Cultural Resources Commission). I want to leverage them
more. I think the first meeting I chaired, Planning Committee, my first term.
Ka`upulehu Development, SHPD (State Historic Preservation Division) took
seven years to respond. And so I'm just wondering, is there a role that the CRC
can play in collaboration with SHPD in reviewing some of these plans and
advising on the County side, because SHPD's stretched. What role can we play
as partners in this?
MR. KERN: It's something that we're looking at with the CRC in that situation
for sure; something that we've already—so here's the thing with the archeological
and SHPD. When there's an AIS (Archeological Inventory Study) or preservation
plan that's done, it's done by an Archeologist, a professional in that arena, right?
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And so, in the past SHPD will review it and they look at it and they say, okay,
change the spelling or maybe adjust this a little bit different. They don't actually
make substantive changes to say, oh we think you missed a feature out there. So
what we're doing is we're looking at it and if SHPD takes too long to respond,
then we're going to be making a decision to move forward based on the findings
and recommendation by the archeologists, which is essentially what happens
anyways with taking out a little bit of the time drag, still giving them the
opportunity to opine on it. And that position might be something that we could
work with the CRC a little bit more to see if we can come up with a, you know,
some more collaboration in that regard.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah, I'd like to see it. I mean you went through a very
exhaustive list of things that the Planning Department is doing, and resources are
very stretched. So just looking to find ways where, you know, we've asked
people to serve community and they have expertise and skillsets in these arenas.
Like you say, let's have them be in a position to take action.
General Plan. I mean you came in during the confirmation hearings with a goal of
having something before the Council, maybe Q2-3 (Quarter 2 or 3)this year. Are
we still on track for that? What's the status?
MR. KERN: Probably going to be a little bit behind on that, quite frankly, and a
big reason why is EnerGov. Moving forward with EnerGov and what it's taking.
It's a gift that keeps on giving and each week it turns into another unique
situation. And each week I think I'm almost there and it turns into something
new. So in order to meet the goals and deadlines that we've set for EnerGov,
there's a lot of other things that are on the side burner. Not backburner, but just
on the side because resources are thin. So I have dedicated folks from each
division working on EnerGov.
So I have certain divisions that are operating at say, 60 percent. Interestingly
enough, applications haven't slowed down. In a lot of ways, they've actually
increased. Our SMA (Special Management Area) applications have, you know,
doubled. So, it's probably going to be a little bit further out. Still, you know,
pushing on that for sure. But right now in order to accomplish the goals that
we've set out to and maintain basic operations and service to the community
while standing up EnerGov, I'll be very happy when that goes live.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Right, June this year, you were saying.
MR. KERN: July 26h.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: July 26h. Okay. And so with the General Plan then, the
last Administration had gone out and had done some very extensive community
outreach, public engagement, got a lot of comments back. I'm assuming all those
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comments have been integrated into the draft, and that's being reviewed. And
once everything's refined, we as a Council will get a copy of it this year? I'm
hoping we're going to get something this year.
MR. KERN: That's the goal, to get it to you this year.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Not December 29h. That's a little too late.
MR. KERN: December 27h? Yeah, the comments have been synthesized and
integrated in various areas. We have a system that they're using to track
comments. So there's a lot of comments, obviously. We're taking a fresh look at
it and looking at how it sits, and with the existing General Plan and how they
correlate. Because it's certainly a different document right now. And taking a
fresh look at it, and that's going to be the theme that I'm doing, right, I'm always
coming in looking at it from a different lens, which can be very helpful
sometimes.
You know, for example,just use an EnerGov example, that there was something
that was caught up. I'm not going to get into the details of it, but a perception that
was caught up for a year. And I said, that doesn't sound right. Am I just seeing it
different? Am I ignorant to it? But we got into it, and I said, actually we could
solve this a different way. And in an hour we solved something that was
stumbling block for a year. So that's kind of the approach that I'm taking, and
same thing with the General Plan. Depending on what adjustments was made,
it'll probably go back out for another round of public comments, and it still has to
go to the commissions and get to you guys both, to Council.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Great. Thank you. And so, can you just explain a little bit
more about your role in helping to implement the EnerGov system? I mean, when
you walked in, what did you see was lacking and how did you make up for those
deficiencies with just some different decisions?
MR. KERN: So, it's been going on for a while. There's been a lot of effort put
into it in various ways. So when I came inI'm pro-technology. I think
technology can be really good if the process is good, right? The technology
doesn't fix the process. So we looked at it and we said, okay we're going to go
live and on the onset was, we're only going to go live on the backend. This is a
bit more of a DPW-type (Department of Public Works) of situation for them for
permitting. And Planning got it and it's kind of a secondary to Planning. And
we're going to work on it, and it's going to be something that's part of our
system.
But originally, it was like, we're going to go live only on the backend. So we
would take applications like normal, and on the backend, we would plug it in and
kind of operate through that. And as I'm going through the process with the
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teams and trying to kind of unpack it—realize that it was more of a permit
tracking system. And we already have a permit tracking system that isn't used up
to the maximum efficiency as it could be. And I said, that's a lot of clicking,
that's a lot of time, that's a lot of money for a permit tracking system. What
about a robust permitting system?
That's what I had in my mind. Like an actual permitting system. A system that
you could kind of live in and that'll be smart. You could click a button and it
would actually propagate fields or send out communications. And in talking with
the team, that's possible. It's very possible. So we made a massive pivot on a
couple areas. One was, we're going to go live, front and backend. Like we want
the customers to experience what this is going to be like and have our staff do it at
the same time.
And while we're going through these adjustments, some challenges, I'm sure.
We're dealing with it together. So we're solving problems both front and
backend. And knowing that we can actually have a robust permitting system, I
said, that's the direction was needed to go. Let's utilize this for what it can do.
Through that, my ideal goal would be, you know, July 26h. We've got this robust
permitting system and press the button and solves all of our problems. That's not
the case. It's basically a two-phase approach.
So we're going to get it stood up to Phase One, which will allow us to intake and
work on the backside. And it'll probably be around 20 percent of what it could
actually do, but we'll at least be tracking; we'll be in there and we can start
building on from that.
Phase Two is actually the build-out of the system. How does this really work and
what reports can we do. How can we live within EnerGov to the maximum
amount where we're basically templating things, right? It makes for efficiency
and consistency. When you go in there and everything, you know, that variance
is the same thing. What we're also doing through that, is in turn we're auditing
our processes, right? How we do in a variance, how we do a subdivision, how we
do a rezoning? And questions are coming up. Can we address all of those and
adjust all of those prior to going live? I don't think so. But what we have a nice
list of where we can be making adjustments. And that's the Phase Two side of it.
So I don't know if that sounds like a lot, but it is a lot on the backend. I'm in
meetings frequently. I'm on Tyler call meetings. They're the provider for the
software. I'm on the calls with them. The technical calls, you know. Saying that,
"You guys need to help us."
The sentiment within the department has been this has been going on for a long
time. It's not the best thing. It's kind of negative. So one of the things we're
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working on doing is actually changing that. Because I think there's a lot of
positivity to it if we implement it right, if we actually go forward with it.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So there are negative feelings towards the EnerGov
system.
MR. KERN: For, you know,just, it's taken this long; are we going to use it? Is it
going to be cumbersome? Is Tyler, you know, the company, are they doing what
they promised? Etcetera. So that's what happens when you've been doing
something for a long time and it's not up and running yet, right? So, we're
coming in and saying, hey, there's a fresh start here. Let's just kind of shake off
whatever that was, and let's give it an opportunity to provide a fresh and actually
turn this into a robust permitting system.
So at the last meeting, not the last meeting, but a few meetings ago with the Tyler
tech team, I told them that. I said, hey, you know, my staff is frustrated with you
guys. This has been a long road. We're not exactly feeling the best. We want to
feel good about it. I'm working on, you know, basically reinvigorating this, and I
need you guys to help me. Because if you guys aren't doing it, I can't do it. You
guys need to do what it is. And I'm here, and you're going to be dealing with me,
and I want to see this as a success. And it's actually been helpful. My feedback
from the tech team is they're working with us. They're actually engaged. They
worked over the weekend.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Kierkiewicz, if we can, I appreciate
the discussion, but we have a number of Council Members and maybe just
summarize.
MR. KERN: Working really hard to get EnerGov up and running into the most
efficient way possible.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, I appreciate it. I'm not going
to cut your time, but in the essence of time, thank you.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: He's very passionate. It's very clear. Thank you. Just a
couple more questions. You know, I appreciated seeing on your slide deck that
there is proactive movement within the department to take a comprehensive look
at Chapters 23 and 25. We adopted a reso on pre-COVID, 432-20 for this. And
so, are these—is this audit, this analysis, this rewrite being driven, you know, by
your folks, or are you engaging an outside third parry to help you with this? What
are the steps? How much is it going to cost us?
MR. KERN: It's an ongoing conversation. I do not know the cost yet. The
General Plan will drive that. My thinking was the last conversation—again this is
open ongoing dialog, was to probably hire a third parry to do an audit of where
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the Code all links up. Because that's one of the challenges when you're going to
do a Code audit. Where does everything link up? And then probably parsing out
to sections that we can outsource. That would be very simple for them to do.
That wouldn't use up staff bandwidth. But I do feel that we're probably going to
need to utilize staff bandwidth because staff and the department knows these
Codes; knows what's working differently in a different way than say a firm from
off island or the mainland.
So I'm thinking it's probably going to be a combination, because there is value in
coming in with an outside perspective, but I also think that needs to hold true to
the knowledge base that we've gained over the years. So it's going to be a
combination. I'm still figuring it out right now. Cost-wise, I mean at one point
someone said it's going to be $750,000.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And that's a good estimate. You know, I will say when I
was at HCPO (Hawai`i Congress of Planning Officials) a couple years ago, there
was a presentation by Maui County, they're Planning Department. They went
through this entire process. And so, happy to share my notes with you. Leverage
them how you like.
MR. KERN: I will.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: My final question, because in the essence of time, thank
you Chair. STVR (Short-term Vacation Rentals) regulations. Where are we with
that? Is what we have on the books sustainable? I mean we created seven new
positions to process permits and non-conforming use certificates. So just looking
at the sustainability of this program and if we are possiblyI'm going to be
looking at changes to that part of our Code.
MR. KERN: The short answer to your question is no, it's not sustainable at all.
That being said, I think the way out are some amendments to the STVR Code
which is something that we'll be working on later on in the year. Just to kind of
give you guys a perspective on that, this year we have the STVR NUC's, which is
Nonconforming Use Certificates for the renewals, right? Then we have STVR's
which are new registrations coming in either with zoning or in a LUPAG (Land
Use Pattern Allocation Guide) map designation that's allowable.
So this year so far, we have had a total of 169 STVR applications, so that's new
registrations. And then our NUC's we have a total of 768. So the 768 basically,
that's the reoccurring. That's the reoccurring revenue. So each year they pay
their fee to keep it going.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Has that number dipped?
MR. KERN: Yeah, it's dipped.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Pretty significantly.
MR. KERN: There's been some decline, some rejected, and then there's some
cancelled and withdrawn. So it's a national attrition that's happening. And then
there's also—one of the situations that we run into is folks move back into their
home. They were doing STVR, COVID hit, they moved back in. Now that
doesn't meet the criteria of an STVR. So it's gotten really tricky, and it's weird
because every time we deny one, we're also taking revenue away. It's not a great
scenario there. So with this, we need to basically, in order to be above the board,
we need to get over 500 new registrations every year.
So the bill actually made it, so we need to get more Short-term Vacation Rentals
coming in every year. We're dependent on it. Bring them, bring them, bring
them. That's problematic because STVR's should happen as they happen as they
occur. If the property's available,people want to do it? Fine. If it's not? Fine.
It should be organic. And there's nothing we can do to push people to do it. And
it's not something that I think we should. So very simply, we're at about
$200,000 negative. Our revenue is around $300,000 and our expenditures is
about$510,000. So we're short.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That's helpful to know. Thank you, Director. Chair, I
yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz.
Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. You know, I'm going to jump back to the
EnerGov program going live in July. And my concern is, you know, how does
the Planning budget reflect the goal of standing up EnerGov? Because if it is a
goal, right, then we have to have resources, we have to have personnel. And I see
in your budget a number of Land Use Plan Checkers; some IT (Information
Technology) Info Analyst pieces. Director, please tell me how the budget reflects
that actionable part where we can go live come July?
MR. KERN: So the interesting thing is that outside of personnel, and I'd say that
the folks that are working on it are actually volunteering to work on the EnerGov
side of it, we don't have money in our budget for it. The money is actually
housed at Department of Public Works and IT. So they're sponsoring us,
essentially. But it's not. When you really break it down, it's all coming from the
General Fund.
So it's been a great working relationship. It's been a great collaboration within
that and it's actually an opportunity that we're actually knocking down silos. But
something that we do need to do after this, is sit down and reevaluate this. You
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know, for example, I didn't create this process. I didn't create the setup. You
know, other directors that are currently in position didn't do this. So this is what
we're dealing with. It's fine. It's not a problem. But it's something that I think
we need to have a conversation about later on in the year. Right now it's, let's get
it up and running, and then let's look at where we can find efficiencies. Where
the budget's best sit. You know, do we take some of it? Does it still stay in one
department? But I think it's a necessary conversation that we're going to have to
have.
MS. LEE LOY: Great, which leads me to my next question. Because you talked
about Phase One for EnerGov and Phase Two, which is training. And that's what
I'm trying to plan for, right? You guys are the Planning Department. How do we
plan for a budget that's going to take on Phase Two to kind of stand up all of the
needs for Planning Department? And I don't see money for training in here.
How do we plan for that?
MR. KERN: That training budget for the go live would be housed under DPW to
my knowledge. So Tyler is going to come in for a three-week training session.
They're going to train on Tyler. We're going to work on training the trainer
through our process, through the folks that are working on it and actually then
we're going to be training the rest of our staff. So it's the theme of doing more
with less, right? So we're basically going to have three weeks from Tyler, but
we're going to have about a six-week period of training in-house.
Obviously, the videos, but the folks that have been working on it, it's been a
really unique experience because they're writing out process narratives; they're
doing the end-to-end testing; the division managers are challenging it. We're
going through it. I'm coming in challenging it. How does this shake out? And
by the end of it, we're actually going to have folks that have kind of been through
it and they'll be able to help train. But we have no money in our budget other
than personnel. And we have a lot of heart.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and I think that's the long and short of it, right? There's
no money in the budget for it. And I can appreciate the training, you know, the
end-to-end testing, because that's what you guys want to do during testing is
break it.
My other question is along the lines which SHPD, and how that fits into EnerGov,
because that's an integral part of not only going vertical in some areas, but on the
second phase, where is SHPD and SHPD's processes plugging in?
MR. KERN: That's going to be a challenge because their system, I'm not sure
how it's going to integrate with EnerGov. In an ideal world, we'd be able to
integrate and have those come together. So the way I understand it now, and this
is still being worked out is we'll have to basically step out of EnerGov, go to the
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HICRIS (Hawai`i Cultural Resource Information System); go through that and
then come back in with whatever information, communication, back into
EnerGov.
The communication standpoint from EnerGov would be there, for example, you
know, your application currently being reviewed by SHPD. But that's going to be
more of a, you know, click a button on our end. But we have to work to see if
there is integration, and from what I understand right now, that's quite challenged.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and I think that's where that managing expectation piece
comes in, right, and we need to alert the user. That hey, if you're going to take
this departure a little bit through the system, you're not going to get your permit
within three or four weeks. And I think that comes with an educational piece. So
where's the educational piece in your budget for this?
MR. KERN: A lot of heart. We've got a lot of heart.
MS. LEE LOY: So no money for that? Alright.
MR. KERN: No money. We have worked with DPW. So like Planning and
DPW kind of been going through it together. And educating the public side of it
is something that we're working on. And even really trying to inform the public
as they go to the front page to fill out the application. Have you checked with
Planning? Please go make sure, you know, based on the GEO (Geographic) rules,
you're in a SMA. Please go talk to Planning first to get to the SMA side of it
before they submit the application. So we're going through the process to make it
good for the public and to educate, but everything we've been doing is just based
on our normal budget.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay. Backing out a little bit as it relates to some of the other
work, Banyan Drive is a goal there. But we saw what happened at the Legislature
just a few weeks ago where we again, you know, didn't get funding. And we
have the Redevelopment Agency tied to that. What is the plan for the
Redevelopment Agency in light of the decisions that the Legislature just made?
MR. KERN: Right now, the plan is basically to keep it paused as it is. It was a
bit of a bummer that it didn't go through. It's something that would have been
really good. So we have that mechanism there, but now that this has happened,
we're actually having to reevaluate that. And quite honestly, I don't have a great
answer for you yet.
MS. LEE LOY: Because there's some money there for the Redevelopment
Agency, and I recognize some of the placeholders, because you want to be
trigger-ready just in case something happens.
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MR. KERN: We have to, yeah.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, if we could just take a look at that and relay the feasibility
of that. Ms. Kierkiewicz talked about it, which is the General Plan and the
timeline. I think what you touched upon is some of the language within the
General Plan would have some cross-walking between the comments that we took
from the public and what the General Plan and how we synthesize those. And so
tell me again, when are we going to get the General Plan?
MR. KERN: I want to tell you, you know, end of Q2 (second quarter), it's not
going to happen because that's all EnerGov, all the way up through it. The goal
is, you know, honestly, going with the best of intentions, right, then you actually
start looking at reality and what's this going to take. We're probably looking at
some time in Q3 (third quarter), Q4 (fourth quarter). Realistically, I could tell
you shorter, but I'll probably be up here, and you'll tell me, you told me you're
going to be here sooner.
MS. LEE LOY: We can set a goal.
MR. KERN: We can set a goal, yeah.
MS. LEE LOY: I want to shift over the CIP process, right? Bill 22 is our CIP
Budget, and as you mentioned in your slide deck,you know, the Planning
Director is responsible for collecting all of the departmental priority lists. And
then, you know, you refine it against whatever funding is available, our priority
projects. Currently, it's a list. Is that a goal that the department can set where we
actually see a more refined list based on priorities? You know, whether it's
emergency repairs? Is that something we can strive for, Director?
MR. KERN: Absolutely. That's something that we can certainly strive for. So
when we went through the CIP process; sat down with each department and went
through their priorities, right? So they said, "These are priorities." We talked
about it. "You're sure that is a priority?" Should we move this, should we move
that? And that's what it came up to. Now, where it merges, that's the issue,
right?
So once we get the departmental priorities what do we do as a whole? And the
General Plan should help drive some of that. But it's not going to drive all of it.
Because we have different elements of CII', right? We have major road
infrastructure, or we have how do we repair the fire station in HPP (Hawaiian
Paradise Park), or you know, down south. So I think we need to look into
potentially couple different chunks. And I think that's where a collaborative
effort could be a good option around that.
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MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and I think that touches upon what Ms. Kimball touched
on, which is what is the metrics, right? How is the priority funding? Because in
addition to the larger infrastructure goals for the entire island is, do we have
matching monies, right? Is there a piece of fair share contribution that we can
bring, right? What is the Legislature doing for us in leveraging their dollars?
And so I'm glad that we can have this conversation right now because I really
think we need to do the CIP differently. But as Ms. Kimball mentioned, I think
we need to understand how they're prioritized. And the other part is, if they've
been in this list 12, 15, 20 years—and I know their place, in case funding comes
available, but my concern is it might not meet the needs of the community when it
was initiated 15 years ago. Is that something, Director, that you can help us look
at creating a dormant list of those that are in the CIP?
MR. KERN: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's where it will come back to, you
know, the General Plan, for example of where we're going to funnel that? You
know, where is it most needed? What's going to have the highest impact? Where
is this going to help effectuate more affordable housing, right? And those are the
bigger ones. And how do we not get the small, you know, roof repair that we
need caught up in the weeds on that? So none of it is getting done. Yes, that's
certainly something that we can look at.
MS. LEE LOY: I heard the bell, so I'm going to yield for now. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. KIMBALL: May we take a break quickly for our photo op, if you folks
don't mind? I apologize, we have the Zonta Club of Hilo here to receive a
certificate for Denim Day. We just need a couple minutes to take a photo. And
you can catch your breath.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: How long of a recess did you want to take
Ms. Kimball?
MS. KIMBALL: Just five minutes is fine.
Recess: At 12:00 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 12:12 p.m.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, we're back from recess.
Ms. Kimball, I think you had some questions for the Director,please go ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, thank you. And thank you both again for your patience
for that quick sidebar. My colleagues actually have asked most of the EnerGov
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questions already. So that's great. I just did want to ask about the imbedded
staff. Is that still your intention? And which position is that going to fall under?
MR. KERN: Yes, we are still working on that. And that is the question that
Grant will answer.
MR. NAGATA: Aloha, good morning. My name is Grant Nagata again,
Administrative Services Officer for the Planning Department. And so for the
Information System Analyst IV position, that's going to show up in the May
update in our position report. And so that position is going to help us with the
backend of EnerGov, doing the programming, reporting, and whatnot.
MS. KIMBALL: I want to go back to the training, which I think is very
important. And do you know off the top of your head where it falls in DPW? I'm
not finding it, obviously in their budget.
MR. KERN: I'm not exactly sure where it falls in. I know that as far as I
understood that the EnerGov was basically housed under them budget-wise. So
it's coming through that and the particulars of it, I'm not sure about.
MS. KIMBALL: Alright, well, let Ikaika know that we'll want to have an answer
to that this afternoon. I am concerned about other training, though. You know,
Planning is a rapidly evolving field, especially in terms of disaster preparedness,
climate change mitigation, and whatnot. I don't see much funding for, you know,
additional training for your staff as far as career and professional training.
MR. KERN: There isn't. We've been tasked to cut budget. We've cut
39 percent last year. We're having to, you know, try to find that now. So you
know, it's just the theme of trying to do more with less. I'm not saying that I
don't want to. I'd love to find more ways to do more training. And maybe that's
an area we could work on some grants. I still need more funding or more budget
for EnerGov.
MS. KIMBALL: Just a quick question on the CDP Action Committees. There's
a bill, Senate Bill 1034. Looks like it's alive still,which will allow for
continuation of remote meetings even after COVID emergency has passed. You
guys have the most commissions and boards under your jurisdiction. Do you
think that you folks will want to continue to meet in this remote format? It seems
like it would reduce costs to some extent and also make it much more accessible,
in most cases, for folks.
MR. KERN: So, yes. If we have the ability to continue to do remote meetings
and virtual meetings outside of any emergency proclamations, I think that'll be an
amazing tool for us to have. I do think it makes it more accessible in a variety of
different ways. So it is something that we'd like to continue to do. I do feel that
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there's going to be times where having in-person meetings is also a necessity,
especially for the quasi-judicial type of things.
You know, planning commissions, Board of Appeals. So that's something that
we're trying to look at and strategize for, like what does the next year bring us?
What does outside of COVID bring us? Are we going to be able to operate
virtually still? Is that not going to pass? Are we going to go back into, you know,
the other way of operating? So I'm hoping that we have the flexibility so we can
utilize it to the fullest extent. Especially for like CDP Action Committees for
sure.
It works quite well for the Planning Commission too, but I also feel like—like I
say there's times where times where in-person and somebody wants to be able to,
you know, make that personal connection or provide their case more like this. I
think that's also a necessity to have that ability. So we're looking at something
like, maybe it's upon request, or maybe we do those every three months. You
know, or quarterly, and try to find the balance.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. I mean it looks like, again, SB (Senate Bill) 1034. And
it looks like it made it through the third reading, so going to Conference right
now. Recommend that opportunity be supported for our boards and commissions.
Talk to me about the Coastal Management Zone monies and expenditures. That's
all a grant-related program, right, that's not coming out of—what are the
objectives of that? And what's the length of time that's going to be funded
through the program?
MR. KERN: Well as far as we know the CZM (Coastal Zone Management) funds
is, you know, it's reoccurring so it's basically every year we're budgeted a certain
allocation for CZM funds. We have folks in our Long-Range Planning Division
based on that. So we try to do, you know, whether it be the shoreline mapping,
working on the shoreline setbacks, working on sea level action plan, to work with
that. So we have various efforts going on right now. I probably should have
brought that list, which is quite long. But it basically funds various positions
primarily Long-Range to work on, you know, the future planning for CZM for the
entire state. And for the CZM, the entire island is in there.
But it's very much geared for—well we have a program right now that we're
working on identifying, you know, shoreline setbacks here on the island.
Actually but, you know, science-based shoreline setbacks. It's tricky because
there's not all the data that we'd want, but it's something that we're working on.
And they're going have it brought forth pretty soon.
MS. KIMBALL: Is that the LIDAR (Light Detection and Ranging) data set that
is being used for that?
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MR. KERN: We're actually working on getting the helicopter to go out and do a
fly around for some of that, yeah.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. So those positions, if the CZM grant is no longer
available. Are those positions still funded out of the General Fund or do those
positions go away?
MR. KERN: We'd be in a very tough economic situation. We wouldn't have the
funds. We wouldn't have the money in our budget. It would have to be some
serious triage to adjust things around.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. You mentioned with STVR's, which I recognize as an
unsustainable modelI'm curious with 500 permits per year, those are just the
Non-Conforming Use permits that you're counting or are those permits in any
form? Because the initial permits, they're a one-time deal, right? They don't pay
that fee every year?
MR. KERN: That's right, I'll explain that. So there was two categories when the
bill got passed. There was basically a Non-Conforming Use Certificate that went
through the registration process, that got an NUCRexcuse me, NUCR is
Nonconforming Use Certificate with Registration. So every year they have to
come back in, and re-register and they pay a fee. So that's reoccurring.
Now, if somebody was in a permitted zone, so let's just use, you know, Waikoloa
is a really easy example, right? You're in the Waikoloa beach area, you're most
likely in a permitted zone, they come in and do a registration and that's it, done.
What we've seen is a tremendous amount of change of ownership information.
So every time a property changes hands, there's a change of ownership
information that comes to the staff. They have to fill out the information, update
the information, go through a new placard, print new placard, mail a new placard.
The burden that is on the department to maintain it, it's a lot.
And for example, with the Non-Conforming Use Certificate that are done every
year, we had around 600 of them drop in a two-month period. That is completely,
you know, unsustainable for our planner to even deal with. So we're dealing with
those.
And so there's no other sources of revenue around it other than the reoccurring
from the annual registrations from the NUC's, the Non-Conforming Use
Certificates, which we don't have anymore. You can't get them anymore.
There's not an option. So that ship has sailed. That is done as far as that's
concerned. So it's only new registrations coming in. So in order to generate that
new revenue, it's a new Short Term Vacation Rental. And granted some, you
know, stop with their Short-Term Vacation Rental or cancel their STVR
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registration, small amount. So it's not like it's all increasing. There is a little bit
of takeaway but very little.
MS. KIMBALL: So there is no additional fees up on that first initial registration
when there's a transfer of property ownership nor are there there's no lifespan
on that permit, right, that initial STVR permit for folks that are in the resorts?
Like that doesn't sunset—
MR.
unsetMR. KERN: It's in perpetuity, unless there was some major change. The only
way it would maybe be redone is if somebody bought it. They didn't want it.
They actually wrote a letter saying cancel my STVR. That got cancelled. Then
the property transacted down the road at some point, then there was a new owner
that said, "I want to bring it back up." That's a possibility. I'm sure that's going
to happen, you know, from time to time. But, yeah, it's the one time and that's it.
So the interesting thing is that property, you could have the registration, and over
the years that property changes hands, and each time there's a change of
ownership information, each time there's a change of responsible person, you
know, the reachable person. That's a change. So all of that is staff time, that
comes into the staff. And it's amazing how many calls we get saying, "Where's
my change of ownership, where's my reachable person." Because they're
thinking that they need that to be compliant, right. Someone's going to come
down, saying, "You're not compliant, you didn't get our placard changed."
So there's this urgency and yet the volume and however we're dealing with it is
quite challenged. And this was something that existed before coming in that
we're really trying to work through. But it's like I say, from a monetary
standpoint and from a bandwidth standpoint it's very tricky.
MS. KIMBALL: I'm definitely curious to spend a little time there. Obviously,
it's not a sustainable model from a financial perspective and then also the
limitations for enforcement. We've certainly ran into that in my district with
things that are not appropriate, but there's no way to do enforcement. So look
forward to further discussions on that.
Other fees associated with activities of the Planning Department, for example,
applications for variances and what not. How do you feel,just high level about
the current fee levels for various services provided by the Planning Department
and the match with the requirement of staffing time that is associated with that
particular activity? Is that well-matched at this point in your opinion?
MR. KERN: No I don't believe that there is a real correlation between staff time
and fees. I'd say the fees help cover advertising. You know, because we've got
to advertise in the newspaper and whatnot, so that helps with that. It might help
with some paper and, you know, printing. But there's really no correlation or
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methodology between, you know, the fees and how many person hours would go
into an application. For example, like a Special Permit application is $500,
rezoning is $500. No correlation.
MS. KIMBALL: Is looking at those fees part of the plan to review? Will we be
reviewing those as part of the intended Code reviews to see if those are
appropriate levels?
MR. KERN: Yes. We'll be reviewing those. It'll be something that I'll be
looking at just as far as, you know, optimization, efficiency and flow. And also,
you know, equitable at the same time. And that's where it always gets tricky,
right? Because we need to have it. So it works for the folks that are doing their
own, you know, project. Or the other side of it that's more of a commercial base.
So I think there's discussions that need to be had there for sure.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, I agree it's a tricky, sticky wicket as they say, but we also
want to have those be appropriate for the services provided, and you know, make
sure we're accounting for the costs in terms of time and labor. That's all the
questions I have, thank you Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms. David, go
ahead.
MS. DAVID: Thank you. Director Kern, I just have two questions and maybe
this one should be directed to Mr. Nagata. On your staff list, I think there's like
several positions that are expected start dates in March, April, and July. I assume
all those expected start dates are done; they've started right?
MR. NAGATA: Yes, they have. So out of the nine vacancies, you know, five of
them have been filled already and we're working through HR (Human Resources)
process and recruitment to fill the remaining. And we can have an update for you.
MS. DAVID: And some of them have a notation, F/S. What is that?
MR. NAGATA: So those are the positions that are funded either by Federal
funds or State funds.
MS. DAVID: Okay, cool. And then, this one is forI only have two questions.
Thanks to my colleagues for asking a lot of questions. SHPD, you mentioned
early on, I guess, the difficulties of getting SHPD to do the inventory or the
survey. What was your discussion about SHPD in the Planning Department?
MR. KERN: So SHPD does their review of an AIS, right? So a landowner would
hire an archeologist to do an Archeological Inventory Survey. And from there,
whatever needs to happen. So SHPD is the reviewing agency. So they get sent to
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SHPD for review. And in the past, that's been slower and frustrating in a lot of
ways. I actually just ran into Sean from SHPD outside and talked story.
And so, they're working on their end as well. So what it is, is that at a certain
point they're reviewing, and whether it be the Planning Department or Building
Division, or any other division can move forward with it, right? And so the
concern comes up, is that, oh my gosh, you're moving forward with it. But if
you're moving forward with it based on the recommendation of the archeologist,
based on that profession and that report, then it is basically, you know, it is
compliant. You're honoring what's there, and you're basically honoring what
SHPD would have reviewed.
And in my experience, it's usually not so much substantive from SHPD, saying
again, I don't believe you classified that site properly. It's more like correct the
spelling, maybe say it in a little different way. But substantive wise, you know,
it's the same, right, there is a site. Are you going to do data recovery? Are you
going to do a preservation plan? Are you going to do burial treatment? And
that's what we're working on with SHPD.
MS. DAVID: Okay. And then in that respect would they need to amend their
rules as far as using the AIS as your document? Absent their review? It wouldn't
need it?
MR. KERN: It wouldn't need it, no. They've always been more of an advisory
agency, with the department being able to take the lead on it. It's just been a past
practice to not.
MS. DAVID: Will they not then, if you use or decide to utilize the AIS or the
Archeological Survey in granting any permit application, should a conflict or
something arise in the future based on something that SHPD might have found,
are you folks making allocations for that? I mean to say that, yes, they're always
going to be in agreement, right, we know that sometimes that's not—if they still
review it down the line, is there a process, and what's the liability for the County
in moving forward in something like that? I mean these are just questions, it
doesn't have anything to do with the budget. However, indirectly it does.
MR. KERN: So where this comes up, you know, it's usually a permit that's
conditioned, right? And it says based on the AIS or based on the Preservation
Plan, do these measures prior to doing anything. And then there's also conditions,
if there's anything inadvertently found, you have to then stop, contact SHPD, and
do that. So in the event, SHPD sent something in,we would still have that
mechanism through our language through the conditions, and say, "Hey here is it,
you've got to do this."
MS. DAVID: Okay, you have a—okay, thank you.
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MR. KERN: Yeah, so it doesn't close the door at all. You know, the intent is
there. The intent is to be pono, to preserve, you know, to go through the proper
processes. And so, that wouldn't change.
MS. DAVID: Okay, awesome. Just wanted to clarify that.
MR. KERN: And I actually will throw out that, when folks feel it's going to take
a tremendous amount of time, some folks are like, "I don't care, I'm just going to
do it and ask forgiveness later." And that's something I really don't I don't
want to see anybody do. I'd rather see an efficient process, where it's like, I'd
rather go through it and be right.
MS. DAVID: I think that's what we all want, right? That kind of behavior is old
school and totally not cool in this day and age. Perfect, that's it. Thank you,
Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. David. Ms. Lee Loy, go
ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: You know, I'll go ahead, but I want to make sure everybody had
at least one shot.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Rebecca, I texted you. Did you have a
question, Rebecca?
MS. VILLEGAS: Not yet. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you, Rebecca. Go ahead,
Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Just two questions, Director. In you program
measures, you have letters, memos answered, actual zero, but budgeted $20,000.
What happened there?
MR. KERN: We have stopped tracking those.
MS. LEE LOY: Oh, okay.
MR. KERN: That's basically just time bandwidth. We used to track them.
We're not tracking them right now. Actually, EnerGov should help us track
those.
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MS. LEE LOY: Right. Okay. And then, in the same program measures, you
have contested care hearings, Planning Commission, actual zero budgeted two.
But in our budget, you have $50,000. Tell me the rationale there.
MR. KERN: The rationale is, we don't know what's going to happen, and it's our
responsibility to cover that and to handle that. So if a contested case came up that
was serious, let's just say, they would put out for a hearings officer. And that
would be hired out to a third parry, generally an attorney. And that cost could be
anywhere from, you know, $5,000 to $50,000. And so, the burden is on the
Planning Department to have that. So that's our reserve, because we never know
what's going to happen.
MS. LEE LOY: Great. And then, same thing,program measures. We have plat
maps for CAD (Computer-Aided Design). You know, meeting ten percent of, I
guess, the request. And I'm just looking for opportunities to improve that
measured outcome, and I'm just wondering if EnerGov or the electronic permit
system, especially subdivisions, right? The subdivision map, does that help
improve that percentage?
MR. KERN: I would sure hope so. That's the goal.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and you know, Director. Because I'm trying to look at
why we're prioritizing EnerGov. And it really does enhance all of these other
things. And these tiny little, kind of improvements actually really do improve the
efficiency of government.
MR. KERN: Correct. And that's really what we're trying to go for, right, is that
efficiency. And simultaneously looking at the current process to make sure that
process works as well. Because the technology doesn't solve for that, but it can
certainly make it much more efficient. So we want to make sure again we have
the right process, adjust that, throw on the technology and doing amazing things.
MS. LEE LOY: Right. And that's priority funding, right? Alright. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Okay, anyone
else.
MS. VILLEGAS: I have a quick question.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go ahead, Ms. Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. Thank you, Zendo, for sharing your perceptions of
what was Bill 108 and STVR legislation and how that effects our budgeting. I
wondered if Deanna is still around. If she could answer a question for me related
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to some of the comments that Mr. Kern made about sustainability of the program
based on income.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: She is here. She'll be up in a minute.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: Good morning.
MS. VILLEGAS: Good morning, Deanna. It's my understanding that the way
Bill 108 was put together and the parameters for the finances that would be
generated as well as sustained through the program, would in fact enable the
Planning Department to continue with the STVR permitting processes and
whatnot. And yet, it was just kind of implied by Mr. Kern that is not the case.
And I was wondering from a Finance standpoint if you could help clarify?
MS. SAKO: So I think when that bill was going through, part of the discussion
was also on the fines and enforcement portion. And that was with getting that
computer system that would allow us to, you know, catch the people that weren't
registering. And that, in total, would allow us to, you know, sustain the fund. But
I think the way the registration fees ended up, when you're a nonconforming it's
just a one-time thing, that it's not going to be enough to carry forward.
You know, they do budget fines. I'm not sure if we've collected any yet. That's
kind of a newer program, but right now, the Director is right. I mean, we do need
to do something to make sure the fund would sustain itself. There is money in
there now. They do have a substantial fund balance. But you know, going
forward after a few years, we are going to have to do something different than
what we're doing now.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Thank you. So essentially, when the legislation was put
together it did incorporate fines as being a source of revenue that would help
sustain the program. The activated?
MS. SAKO: So you know, they do have the computer program. I'm not sure
how much we're utilizing it yet at this time. But I'm also not sure because when
COVID hit, how much they're really able to enforce that right now, or how many
of the vacation rentals are even being utilized right now. Some of it could just be
a timing thing with where we're at with COVID also.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, that makes sense on how that would correlate and
connect. My other question was and perhaps I was incorrect in my understanding,
but is sounds like, I mean, and we've all seen it, the amount of turnover right now
in the real estate market here. And especially in those resort nodes where it is an
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allowable use as a vacation rental. But when an owner sells, the new owner
doesn't have to go apply for a new STVR permit? They just take over the old
one?
MS. SAKO: Yeah, they just take it over.
MS. VILLEGAS: They just take it over. Okay.
MS. SAKO: So if that was not the intention, you know, that might be something
we have to look at.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. But nonconforming use certificates have to renew and
pay every year, correct?
MS. SAKO: That's my understanding, yes.
MS. VILLEGAS: And that's $250 a year?
MS. SAKO: Well, yeah. So we budgeted $255,000 for the coming year.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. My brain can't do math right now, sorry. Think of not
only vacation rental but nonconforming renewals that meant. But my apologies.
I can't think or do math at the moment, apparently. Okay, thank you. So we do
have the potential for the program to sustain itself. And as we navigate our way
outside of COVID and return to more normal potential rentals, there is still
opportunity, and we may just need to make a couple of tweaks on things in order
to sustain the program. Is that kind of what you're saying?
MS. SAKO: Yes. And you know, later we can look at it. There is enough fund
balance for a little while. So, I mean they'll be okay for another couple years.
But at some point, we will have to tweak it.
MS. VILLEGAS: Great. So we've got another couple years. That's great to
hear. Thank you. That provides some bulk in that capacity. With that I yield,
thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Okay, I have a
few follow-up questions seeing that there's no more discussion.
MS. LEE LOY: Well, I just had one more.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go ahead, Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Director, we talk a lot about the expenses,
and you know, we're touching upon some revenue. Has the department
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considered adjusting their fees for the various regulatory permits? And I ask that
question because with the complete overhaul of our Construction Codes, we did
see some steps especially as it relates to permits that were incomplete. And a
resubmission fee.
MR. KERN: We're looking at that. We haven't made any firm decisions on that.
Our resubmittal situation is obviously a little bit different than Building as well.
Sometimes a little bit more subjective, you know, the content is different. But
yeah, we are looking at that. I think it's part of the next step as far as looking at
that, you know, equity and equality within those fees.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, thank you for that. You know, because I think what a lot
of our colleagues are looking at is not only providing funding for you, but how
within your own department you guys can supplement your own budgets and take
a lot more ownership of that through, you know, whatever revenues you can
generate. Any thoughts?
MR. KERN: Yeah, it's interesting because you know, using the STVR's as a
scenario of generating revenue. Like you know, typically the County isn't in the
business of generating revenues in the business of serving the folks, right, but you
have to have the revenue in order to serve the people. And so, looking at it from
that standpoint of how do we create the revenue to offset or increase our budget
while still maintaining that service and keeping the general intent of what we
want to do which is serving the people, right? It's a unique situation, especially
for government.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I see my colleagues across the way nodding their heads a
little bit. And I don't think it's self-sustaining, but at least supplementing it a bit
of the way. Okay, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. KIMBALL: Chair, I'm sorry.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Kimball, go ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: I just want to add into what you're saying, though. I mean one
of the conversations we had the other day was about how real property tax can be
used for social engineering incentivizing the things we want to see and
disincentivizing things we don't want to see. And fees actually conserve the same
purpose, right? And so, you know, there's potential through the fee structure to
actually incentivize the types of projects or behaviors actually that we want to see.
So, interested to see what your analysis is when you do those Code revisions to
see if there's places for that.
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I happen to think that our fees, in some of these cases are low based on what we
see in other jurisdictions, although I understand that we want to be fair. And you
know, it's all a balancing act, but I think there's plenty of room for discussion
about how we utilize these fees on multiple levels, not just to provide revenue for
the department. Thank you, I yield, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms. Villegas, go
ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah,just a quick question. I'm back to you, Mr. Kern.
Something that Deanna mentioned was about a program that hasn't been
implemented yet. Can you explain what that is and how that relates to the
tracking or the fines or where that falls into the mix?
MR. KERN: Sure, yeah, there's a company that we outsource to gather all the
information for STVR's lodging rev. (revenue) and they provide us with
basically, they can scour the, you know, the listings online. And we can go in
there when we're doing our research for renewals and whatnot. We can basically
pull all that information with one click. And we can gather that information.
Part of the original goal was to utilize them to do more enforcement. That was
not implemented to my knowledge, but we are still doing enforcement,
nonetheless. So if we get complaints, we're working on it. It's interesting
because one would think that it'd be very easy to just enforce it, but it's not
because there's folks that, you know, have hosted vacation rentals. Or there's
folks that it's they're primary residence, and they're basically exempt from it. So
yeah, that does exist. And that's something that we're utilizing and we're looking
at how we want to implement it. Fundamentally, from my standpoint, I really
don't like the idea of having to have a certain amount of fines baked into
something. I feel the fines should be there. If they're there, they're there. But if
they're not there, you know, it can still sustain without that because then we turn
into the enforcement side of it in a way that we're seeking revenue. So it's a
balance that we're looking at.
MS. VILLEGAS: I respectfully disagree. And this is something we'll probably
disagree on being that your prior occupation was representing hundreds of these
Short-Term Vacation Rental owners who were coming to the Planning
Department for exemptions or special circumstances. So I guess we'll have to
agree to disagree on that, but I would want to encourage the Planning Department
to get that program up and running, because the goal of government isn't to
operate as a business on the kind of punitory side of things. And yet, it is our
responsibility when fines have been identified to follow-up on that. And to make
sure that people are held accountable, and that the right programs and procedures
are in place to support.
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I mean it sounds like this program would eliminate vast amounts of work for
people in the Planning Department and provide avenues for quicker and more
efficient identification of those who are breaking the laws. And unfortunately,
there are people doing that. And for us to have the means to enforce the laws that
are on the books is very, very important to the people I know in District 7 who
really struggle with the nonconforming use permits in residential neighborhoods.
And they are constantly looking to my office and my team for some support and
some follow-up, and some sense of enforcement where this is concerned.
So if this program provides that avenue, I would strongly encourage you to get
that up and running as soon as possible. And for us to continue with the intention
of Bill 108 as it was written that it will include the fines and the fees holding
those, making vast, vast sums of money off of properties in residential areas
renting them as Short-Term Vacation Rentals. Thank you, I'll yield at this time.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas.
MR. KERN: If I may. We are enforcing. When we get complaints, we enforce.
You know, there's no question. We go out there,we'll serve a NOV(Notice of
Violation). We're collecting revenues on it. So at no point are we not enforcing
it. I think the question is, does it make sense to continue with a $100,000 annual
budget for this program? That's a question that we're looking at. It's a question
that we have a little bit of time to look at. I'll leave it at that, but we're certainly
doing our job to enforce.
MS. VILLEGAS: Why do you have time to look at that?
MR. KERN: We have time to look at it because while the STVR program is not
sustainable, we're still able to move forward over the next couple of years based
on the revenue that we have because we have some fund balance. So we're able
to—it's not like we're going to run out of money, you know, at the end of this
year. We have it, but I think it's something that we need to look at the entire
STVR process and see if we can make it better.
MS. VILLEGAS: Well, I would respectfully once again disagree and say that the
actions need to be taken now when the numbers assessed out, if the spending of
$100,000 allows for the same amount and potentially more to be brought in while
reducing the amount of workload that this places on our Planning Department, I
think that we need to be—as many of my colleagues have mentioned earlier,
forward thinking in taking those initiatives. Quicker instead of waiting back,
because we do have a cushion of some of that funding. So I would encourage you
and your department to take those measures now to really take into serious
consideration putting the program into place.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Mr. Richards, go
ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. And thanks, Director, appreciate it.
Touching a little bit on what Ms. Kimball said and I think what Ms. Lee Loy said
concerning the use of fees going forward. We're not in the job necessarily of
cash-in, cash-out, but we can't do the services without the revenue to support the
function of our County Government bureaucracy. That being said, we had this
conversation with Public WorksI want to say 18 months ago, maybe. And
they're retooling their fee structure.
This is a conversation we are having in Environmental Management and figuring
how to tool that fee structure. So I think the timing is right to look at that going
forward. And it's simple, it's fee for service. And it makes sense that we are
going to be funding the function that we need with the people that are using it,
more or less. And granted, it's not going to cover all the costs, but I think the
conversation and the timing is right to start getting this put in place, especially
now that you're working on the EnerGov. And so I think we can actually do that.
And so, we as a Council can support that going forward because that's our
function, to make sure that we have the services available. So I like what you're
saying. I like that the concept of exploring more of the fee for service. And
again, we're looking at it across all of our departments where it makes sense to
do. Not overburdening those that are not using it, but also not undercharging
ourselves because we don't have the resources available to support what we're
trying to get done. So we're going to have to look at that going forward.
And I hesitate to say this, it's not a pay to play like we've seen in some other
jurisdictions, but we're talking about just paying a fair net for the services we
need to get done. And thereby I think we can better support our County and our
government and our function overall. So, I'm just throwing that out there, Chair.
Thanks, because I think we're going to be looking at that going forward. So I'm
curious to hear that as we come through. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards.
MR. KERN: I can happily respond.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Well, if you want to. I'll just give you the
option.
MR. KERN: Thank you. Again, I think we are looking at it, and I think we need
to look at the difference between, you know, the mom and pop person coming in,
and then the more commercial-based person coming in. And that's where maybe
the one-size doesn't fit all. How to create, you know, equality, equity within this?
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I'm happy to continue to have that discussion and conversation. I think it'll be
ongoing one.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. I have just a question about
your overall position and salary requirements, and it almost hits every single
department. But I'm just looking at the breakdown on the bottom, where you
have the total County positions and then you have other payroll expenses. And
there is Federal and a State and then there's the County side. But I'm noticing
that your Federal and State side as far as other payroll expenses is really heavy as
compared to the County other payroll expenses side. It's a general question, but if
you can answer it then I'll love to hear it.
MR. KERN: I'll defer to you, Grant.
MR. NAGATA: Okay, so great question. And so for our Federal grants, like the
CZM (Coastal Zone Management) grant, it covers the fringes. And so, that's a
big chunk of the expenditures versus like what you see in the General Fund.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And fringes covers
MR. NAGATA: It's like the medical coverage, you know, dental, vision, as well
as like the payroll taxes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just for the grant-covered positions?
MR. NAGATA: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. That clarifies that.
Going through your submitted budget, you made some substantial cuts, which is
good. I'd like to see that. You had some fairly, you know, I'm just looking for
things past$5,000. So are you expecting to see more public meeting notices
being posted versus 2019-2020?
MR. KERN: Really hard to say. That's something that we're trying to model out
for, because there's a lot of uncertainty with the public meetings, right? If we
stay on a digital, you know, virtual it's a little bit easier in that sense, hard to say.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, you have about an $8,000 difference
there from 2019-2020 pre-COVID to post-COVID.
MR. KERN: Yeah, if things change and we have to go back to what it was
post-COVID, then we'll be looking for some additional funds.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Office supplies, you know your
basics, you really cut your expenses there. Same thing on your miscellaneous
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charges. Actually, your miscellaneous charges increased. Telephones was
interesting because you went from an $8,000 expense in 2019-2020, but you're
looking at only spending $150 in 2021-2022. I'm trying to wrap my head around
that one. That's a big difference unless there was a large purchase. You know,
what is the reason for the difference there?
MR. NAGATA: Are you looking at the equipment?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Planning equipment 5141.06.
MR. NAGATA: I think back then—so I think a lot of these expenditures
happened before I came on board. I know they were, you know, redoing the
office, picking up some equipment and whatnot. So that's where I believe that
expenditure came from.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Yeah, when I see things like that,
that they kind of raise a flag, because either you haven't put in enough for this
coming year, or there is a large purchase or something happened in 2019-2020, so
that's why I'm asking.
MR. NAGATA: So as far as our phone system, we're not expanding or anything
so that's why it's back to
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Your basic charges?
MR. NAGATA: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then the CZM, your 514134,
that's all covered by grants?
MR. NAGATA: Yes, that's correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Position-wise, you know, I had a
question, as I'm listening to this STVR and NUC's and just trying to wrap my
head around where you're at. So initially when we started the STVR program, we
I think dropped in a fairly large amount of funds to help get the program wrapped
up for increased personnel to handle the increased workload. I want to say
$800,000. I'm just going by memory. That was last fiscal year. I could be wrong
so don't quote me on that, but that's what I remember. It looks like you have
about seven positions starting this year, correct?
MR. KERN: Correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: As Ms. David brought up earlier, and those
are positions to help with STVR's.
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MR. KERN: Yes, so those are positions to help with the STVR's we have on the
west side as well as the east side. So we have enforcement, we have inspectors
that actually go and deal with the STVR enforcement; and we have folks that are
dealing with the registrations, taking on the new information, doing the change of
ownership information.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And these are the new positions that have
started this year?
MR. KERN: These are the new positions that came with the program.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: With the STVR program?
MR. KERN: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Because I can see you have STVR funded
positions, but you also have a series of positions that have started this year.
MR. KERN: Oh, those positions were already existing positions that we've been
trying to fill. It's actually quite challenging to fill vacant positions and throw in
extra challenge into West Hawaii.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. The reason I'm asking is that we're
talking about there being not enough revenue to support the STVR's, but we're
increasing our staffing. And just looking at the balance there, you're going
through less permits now, correct? Because the majority of that workload came
and went. You've already processed the majority of those nonconforming.
MR. KERN: No, that's a gift that keeps on giving. The nonconforming comes in
every year.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm sorry, the STVR's then.
MR. KERN: The STVR's comes in as they do, so we don't know. You know
what I mean, if there's going to be a lot or a little seems to be somewhat
consistent. So those are frequently coming in. The change of ownership
information is coming in. We also have to process, you know, the close to
800 NUC's every year for a department that's used to processing around 800
applications in total.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, but with increased staffing,paid for
through the STVR fund, correct?
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MR. KERN: So it's not necessarily, I think there's two different things. We have
the staffing that came with the program that handles STVR situations, right? And
then we have the staffing that we're trying to fill. So those are two different
things. The vacant positions that we have that we're filling that Chair David
asked about earlier. Those are positions that we have that are in, you know,
whether they'd be in Long-Range, or clerks, or Planning Commission; or you
know, LEPC (Local Emergency Planning Committee) to go through Building
Permit review. Those are just positions that we need to maintain our regular
operations.
And the other staffing that came with the STVR were utilizing those to work on
STVR staff. Like I said whether it be enforcement, doing registrations, doing
change of ownership, doing NUC's. You know, the renewals every year. And
that alone is quite a challenge.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So, you're saying the staffing that you have
provided by the STVR fund isn't able to keep up with the STVR's. And they also
process the NUC's?
MR. KERN: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So they cannot keep up with that.
MR. KERN: In an ideal world we could probably stagger it out, so it was. But
what happened was because the bill basically said you have to have all your
applications submitted by the end of September, let's just say, right? So the
Planning Department was working on processing applications, and there was a
tremendous amount processed right at the end. So every year come November
December, we will have 600 applications drop on the desk for renewal. It is
impossible without bringing in like a tremendous amount of staff. So we're just
trying to work with that within our STVR crew, so to speak, right, our staffing for
that, as well as maintain the new registrations that are coming in which is on a
daily basis or weekly basis. As well as the enforcement. As well as the change of
ownership information. The change of reachable person. It's a lot of plug work.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: How many new applications are you
receiving?
MR. KERN: This year we did, I think, 169 so far.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And initially when you first started the
program, it was 4,000, correct?
MR. KERN: Four thousand, and about 3,000-ish were just registrations, and then
then the rest were in the NUC's.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And now you're processingI'm sorry,
what was the number again?
MR. KERN: I think we're at around 169 or so. So I would like to say this, when
it first came in, what ended up happening is every person within the Planning
Department turned into a STVR. So we had Planner VI's processing the
applications. So it wasn't like the staff that we got with the program was able to
process it. It was all hands-on deck, do whatever it takes to get it done. And now
it's, I'm not saying that we need more staff for the STVR side of it. What I'm
thinking that we need for the STVR side of it is to kind of relook at it, being able
to spread out some of the renewals throughout the year so it's more of a consistent
situation and understand where there can be additional revenue created through
the demand of the work. Because it is something that keeps coming back.
You know, a variance you go through that process and generally it's done. You
know, you don't get change of ownership information for a variance. You don't
change of reachable person for a variance. It's pau. With the STVR, you know, it
keeps on giving us work. And it's something that we need to kind of—and I'm
just trying to make adjustments to so we can be kind of steady with the staff that
we have. Steady throughout the year instead of overwhelmed, over-burdened, too
much. And it's never been not enough. That conversation hasn't come up yet.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Have you looked at doing
temporary hires for that section of time? Because obviously, if you're going to hit
a big bump at one period of the year and then you're going to drop back to a low
number again, have you looked at doing an increased hiring at those times?
MR. KERN: I've thought about it. We don't have any budget for it, you know.
So we've thought it out. My thought was, is there a way that we could stagger it
out throughout the year? Like, instead of having the same problem every year,
let's just solve that problem and spread it out over the year. So we're doing like
50 applications a month for renewals. And then with the staff that we have they
can maintain that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I was going through your
departmental objectives and then, I mean what I was getting from this was that
you're overwhelmed with some of the STVR work or NUC work, work, and
needing more staffing to handle. But we're kind of going back and forth on that.
MR. KERN: The staffing again, I need to reshape some of the process that's
there. The staffing that I need is more like a Clerk II in Kona. It's to fill up our
other, you know, fill our other positions. So we can actually have our Planners
and Long-Range, and Planning Commission Division. Those areas are there. So
we need to make sure that we get staffed or have increase for like the EnerGov
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person. As far the STVR component, the staff that we have I feel that that will
work if we can smooth out the program.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Just as a note, Deanna does an
annual revenue report, and it provides almost every single fee or revenue source
we have in the County. So for people who are wanting to change that, if you take
a look at that you can understand what the fee is,where it comes from, when it
was last changed, so it's all there. And thank you for putting that report together
as well. Okay, I don't have any further questions for you. Yet, thank you for
your answers to so many questions on your budget. And thank you for being here
today. Thank you for everyone in your department and what they do. Any
further questions? Anything else? Beautiful.
MR. KERN: Thank you all for the discussion.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Okay, I'm going to request
that we recess until 1:30 p.m. We're going to take a quick lunch break. Mahalo,
we are recessed.
Recess: At 1:05 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 1:39 p.m.
(5) Hawaii Fire Department:
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Good afternoon gentlemen, thanks for
being here today. We're up and ready, so when you guys are ready, settle in. So
we have your PowerPoint that was submitted this morning to Council Services.
Chief, you want to give us your—who's going to do the presentation today?
(Note: At this time, Acting Fire Chief Robert Perreira came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: I will be.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. When you are ready sir.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Good afternoon, Robert Perreira Acting Fire
Chief. With me I have Assistant Chief of Operations Darwin Okinaka, and EMS
Battalion Chief Chris Honda. Thank you for having us. And before I start, I just
wanted to thank the Council for doing the recognition for our Fire Radio
Dispatchers, for national tele-communicator's week. I presented that to dispatch
yesterday, and they were very appreciative and thankful. So thank you guys for
doing that.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for having such good personnel.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yes, we do, we have great personnel. Okay, so
I'll be going over our PowerPoint here, for our Fiscal Year 2021-2022 operating
budget.
(Note: At this time, Acting Chief Perreira, Assistant Chief of Operations
Darwin Okinaka, and EMS Battalion Chief Chris Honda came forward and
provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For
viewing of the presentation, see the DVD copy of the proceedings on file in
the Clerk's Office, or navigate to the Council's video archives from the
County's homepage online at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A hard copy of the
presentation is made a part of the record. See Comm. 103.3.)
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: I just want to mahalo, the County Council
Members for your time today and for your continued support for the Hawaii Fire
Department. Mahalo also to the Mayor, Managing Director, and Finance Director
for their continued support of the Hawaii Fire Department. And at this time
we're able to answer any questions.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo, Chief. Appreciate your time,
thank you. Nice PowerPoint presentation. Makes you feel better, sometimes I've
got to squint to see that back screen too. Mr. Chung, go ahead.
MR. CHUNG: Hi, Chiefs. I guess the first question I should ask, what's the
situation with the appointment of the next Chief, whomever he or she may be?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: I think I'm going to have to defer that question to
the Fire Commission. At this point, it's unclear.
MR. CHUNG: Oh, it's unclear.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: That's all I'm going to say. It's unclear at this
time. So we have a meeting tomorrow that may clear that up.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, alright. You know, I guess one other question is, was your
department instructed to go with a status quo budget?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: This budget actually was started working on in the
last Administration under Chief Rosario. And I believe, you know, with every
budget there was requests in not knowing where the financial situation was going
to be, and the revenue was going be. And so we submitted a status quo budget,
line-item budget. That's what we submitted.
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MR. CHUNG: And we had fire raises, right. So you said, 85 percent of your
budget is already devoted to salary and wages. So that means you've got to get
some kind of compaction over there right, if you're just kind of staying almost
close to what it was the last time.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So I want to thank the Finance Director Deanna
Sako. Because, you know, in our budget this year we didn't have Hapuna funds.
And you know, doing her job and helping us to find the money, she's been able to
do that, and we are providing services to the community at Hapuna. And we'll
continue doing that until the end of this fiscal year. And we're also not knowing
where next year is going to be, and so there's been some planning for the future. I
guess that's the best way to say it, into supporting our department; and helping to
support not necessarily our department but in supporting our department we're
protecting our community.
And so you know, she's been really good at planning for the future, and I think
that's probably the best way for me to say that. Is that we feel confident that
moving forward, we're going to have what we need to continue to do the work
that we are currently doing. As far as growing, that's all going to be contingent
on revenues, and needs and priorities with the next Administration prioritizing the
plans and moving that forward.
MR. CHUNG: Well my concern is this, you know, I think Fire Department,
Police Department, you guys are vitally important to the public health, welfare
and safety of our community, right. And we want to make sure that you guys
have the necessary resources to do a good job. Now if the salary portion keeps
growing, and you guys are staying at almost the same budget amount, it just leads
me to believe that something got to give, right. So all I ask is this, Chief, and I
ask this of the Police Department many years ago but never really got it. If you
guys maybe one day after our budget is over, or maybe even during the throws of
our budget process, come and give us a presentation on where you would like to
see the Fire Department, you know, in terms of resources. Because we don't
really know what's being sacrificed, right.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: I think I can answer that question a little bit better
in the fact that when we do have CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement)
increases collective bargaining increases, the funds are increased in those areas.
And so there is money added to our budget, it doesn't increase in our OCE(Other
Current Expenses) expenses. But it does increase in our collective bargaining
increases, our salaries. And so we don't end up seeing like more pulled from
OCE to pay for salaries. You know, Finance Department is covering those with
increases. Those are collective bargaining increases. And so in moving forward
we have to I think look at where our resources are and how we are going to
continue to provide the service that our growing community needs. Because we
know that our island is growing, and call volume is increasing. And we didn't
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have 886 fires 10 years ago, you know, or 18,000 medical calls 10 years ago.
And so we do have to grow, and we've grown.
You know, we received Medic 18 and Paradise Park. And so we've been
supported, and obviously every department has their needs. And I think that's
where as a Fire Department we have to understand that also, is that each
department has needs, and we don't want to—if they're giving us more that's
means they're taking away from somebody else.
MR. CHUNG: That's not my question though, okay. I just want to know at some
point maybe not today, what you guys need. Never mind what other guys need,
we're trying to strike this delicate balance with other guys being nice guys. We
just want to know, well I just want to know, what you need.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: That can be done.
MR. CHUNG: So that we can reasonably consider that and maybe next time or
Council's in the future can get somethings on record, yeah. And that's all.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: No, that's good.
MR. CHUNG: We're not trying to pit one department against the other, or
anything like that. But you guys are vitally important to the operations of the
county. As are the other departments too, but you guys—if you're talking about
essential service public safety is it, really. Okay. So we want to make sure there
is no compromises, and that's all. We want to find ways to support you basically,
yeah.
And the last question I have, has to do with the Battalion Chief situation. I don't
know if that's been resolved, you know, the Battalion Chief. I don't really know
about it too much, but I know it came up in the past where—any of you guys
Battalion Chiefs by the way?
MR. HONDA: I am.
MR. CHUNG: The current set up, it provides disincentive for people to try
aspiring to the Battalion Chief position. And it's more comfortable to stay at rank
of perhaps Captain, you know, that kind of stuff. I just wanted to know what's
being done in that regard, so that we can get people to go for the Battalion Chief
Job and make it at least worth their while to do that.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: This last recruitment we actually had five people
apply for two positions, so that was great to see. You know, there is an interest.
People want to step up and they want to lead and make a difference in our
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department, and we have great people doing that. And so you know, as far as the
lawsuit with the Battalion Chief
MR. CHUNG: I'm not talking about the lawsuit.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Well, that's where it's at. There's a lawsuit that
has been filed, and I think that's what's probably holding back moving forward.
Because that lawsuit's got to be resolved. And I think when that lawsuit is
resolved, then really there will be an ability to move forward.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, but then. Nah, I don't want to ask you a question that
might compromise, you know, the but I just find it odd that, okay, I feel strongly
about this Battalion Chief situation regardless of the lawsuit. And I'm thinking in
my own mind forget the lawsuit if something makes sense just do it. I know
you're kind of hamstrung on this, because I think historically you guys had to go
through the Mayor and then you know, I think there has been some hang-ups over
there. But I would urge you guys to try to resolve that as much as possible. You
know even if you have had, you know, five recruits, or six recruits for this last
Battalion Chief position. It still does not to me say that a fair system is in place.
Because I really don't think it's fair. Yeah, it's my personal opinion, but anyway.
Maybe Chris you don't have to say.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So I was a Battalion Chief when the lawsuit was
filed, I did not sign the lawsuit. That was my personal preference. Is there a
problem? I believe that if you look at the increments in pay increases as you
move up the ladder, there is. If I was named the next Fire Chief, I had a process
that I was going to do to follow and bring resolve to that. But what would that
mean? That might mean the lawsuit has to go away, I don't know, right. And so
I think this lawsuit has definitely affected the ability for the county to move that
forward, because they have to resolve the unresolved issues. And it's going to
date back, there's people that are retired and been retired for many years that may
get back pay for all of that. And so it's a lot bigger than one or two people.
MR. CHUNG: But how long this, well never mind. All I can say, it's been going
on long time.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yes.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: From Chief Oliveira.
MR. CHUNG: Alright. But thank you.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Ms. Kierkiewicz,
go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Chief Perreira, for all of
your work on the budget. And I just want to also mahalo Mayor Roth, for inviting
members of the Council to participate in this year's budgeting process. I got to sit
in on the three-hour meeting, with Fire and Director Sako. And just continuously
amazed with Deanna's ability to hold all of these numbers in her head. And also
there's just this willingness, right, from the Admin, to work to find a way forward
and support your department. I know for many years you've been operating on a
really razor-thin operations budget, so it's great that we're going to move things
around. And I appreciate you letting us know that you're doing a line-by-line
audit and analysis of everything in the budget. We want to make sure that we're
tracking expenditures and positioning resources appropriately. So thank you.
Just a few questions based on, you know, your presentation and some of the
things you included in the materials. I noticed for EMS (Emergency Medical
Services), you highlighted the community paramedicine program, resulting in a
cost saving of about$10,000 to $14,000 a month. Can you just elaborate what's
been done to increase efficiencies here, and where you are looking to invest that
potentially $100,000 in savings? Every dollar matters at this point.
MR. HONDA: Yes, thank you. So our community paramedicine program was
developed because of the increased call volume and our resources are very
stretched. So we looked at how can we be more preventative, and we mirrored
programs from other departments. So we're out there and a lot of times they give
referrals from Adult Protective Services, many from our own lines, where for
example you have a repeat caller calls several times a day and they maybe just
falling. So we looked at how can we keep them out of the system and help them.
So we do home inspections, fall assessments. Through grant monies, we're able
to get like toilet bowl extenders and grab bars. And we work with different
agencies in our department to help make their lives better and safer. So we try to
keep that person out of the 911 system, out of the hospital, and ultimately live a
better healthier lifestyle.
So with that, we have a software program called, "Water That We Use," and it
tracks manpower hours, it tracks how we were referred to that individual, and it
does projections on how much cost savings we're doing a month. Right now we
only have two captains, one on the east, and one on the west that are doing that.
That is something that the State is looking at to expand, and actually look into
areas of how we can possibly incorporate a charge or a bill for that to bring back
revenue. Right now we don't do any charges. It's free and whatever equipment
we use is all through grants. So hopefully with that money that we're saving and
keeping them out of the system, you know, it helps our overall budget in the EMS
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side for like equipment, supplies, you know, vehicle maintenance and things like
that. So that's where we're at right now.
This Community Paramedicine Program can be very huge. And the reason why
we're tracking data too, is that what we saw in other departments is that when we
could show how much cost savings, the cost savings that the program was
providing they started to see buying from hospitals, from insurance companies,
because hey if we keep them out of the hospital insurance companies pay less.
And when they started showing the savings, they were in the millions. So then
hospitals and insurance companies were like, "Hey how can we help you guys
expand your programs? Because in a sense it provides a better lifestyle for our
community, and it helps us as insurers." So that's kind of where we'd like to go,
in kind of a long-term project.
So we're very early in our emphasis stages and with COVID we've been using
our CP, or Community Paramedicine personnel to help with COVID efforts with
vaccinations, screening, and even the kupuna calling, "Hey, I don't know how to
use a computer." You know, they help register and get them on VAMS, (Vaccine
Administration Management System) and print the forms then drop it off to their
house so they can go. You know, things like that. So it's very multipronged and
it's endless of what the different things you can do. So that's kind of in a nutshell
what CP program is right now, yeah.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chief, excellent overview, do keep us posted on how this
progresses. It definitely show's a lot of promise. And because you brought up
grant writing, I noticed here that you reported on wanting to activate a grant
writing team within your department. I think that's excellent. You guys have
been really successful in the past in going after and securing grant funding. You
did mention that there was 80 percent of the objective that was met, so what
20 percent is left? What gap is there needed to fill?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Sorry, Ashley, I'm a little confused with the
question. Eighty percent was met in what area?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: In grant writing. I'm looking at this right here, Chief.
And it talked about objectives being met and for some of the questions you said
60 percent, 80 percent, hopefully that jogs your memory.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: I think what happens is in certain areas—so Chief
Smith is actually at National Fire Academy. He's our Support Services Assistant
Chief. And so he manages the grants, or he works with our grant team and
manages that. But what I think the 80 percent means is that's where we are at
with certain grants. And so whether it's still in the process of, what the right word
is? Not applying, but more of finishing up actually executing everything that was
involved with that grant. And so that's where I believe where the 80 percent is.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I see. So it's more implementing the grant rather than
fully activating your team.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yes.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Thanks for the clarification. You know, when we
had the budget discussions with Director Sako and her team, I did ask about
equipment the SCBA (Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus) tanks and having
more of those available around the island for folks to fill-up. Can you just
elaborate on whether or not this budget includes the equipment, the machinery, to
just have more equipment and machinery around the island so that our guys aren't
having to travel to just a couple of locations to fill up the bottles.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So we're currently working on a grant to get a
compressor to fill bottles. We were fortunate to get hand-me-down unit from our
airport, brothers and sisters at the airport. And so we're actually installing a unit
at our Waiakea Fire Station. That's going to help carry us until we can get the
funding that we need to get, I believe we're purchasing a portable one, yes, for
Pahoa?
MR. HONDA: Yes.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And Chief, maybe elaborate, you know, the importance of
these compressors, how many we have on the island and the cost. I mean this is a
real investment that I would like my colleagues to consider.
(Note: At this time, Emergency Operations Assistant Fire Chief
Darwin Okinaka came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. OKINAKA: Thank you. I'm Darwin Okinaka Assistant Fire Chief of
Emergency Operations. So regarding the SCBA compressors, we've identified
that we needed them, yeah. Our current units, we have three right now,portable
units, we've had since the early 2000's and, you know, spent the majority of their
life already and starting to break down. And with the new SCBAs that we
currently have they're larger capacity bottles, what we call 45-minute bottle,
4,500 psi (pound-force per square inch) bottles.
So the current compressor's we have now,just barely able to accomplish filling
those bottles, you know, sufficiently. And actually one of those three
compressor's is out of commission right now and it can't be repaired. So we
started the process last year of identifying and wanting to pursue purchasing new
compressors. Initially our goal was to use our AFG (Assistance to Firefighters
Grant) this year to write a grant to purchase new compressors. But we had a, you
know, we got denied for our last year grant, which was for our extractors for our
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PPE cleaning, which is another important thing. So we've resubmitted the grant
this year for that. So it delayed the grant writing for the compressor another year.
Another option we're looking at is utilizing PGV (Puna Geothermal Venture)
funds to purchase a compressor. So that's the avenue we wanted to go with to
purchase at least two compressors, one for hazmat and one for Pahoa Fire Station,
because it's in the Puna District and it has to tie into response to PGV. So that's
the two places that, you know, we identify that, you know, with potentially do.
We haven't, you know, finished the process yet. We started; we got some quotes.
So our stationary unit, talking about the cost of it, the one we're looking at is
roughly around $80,000 for the unit itself, not including installation cost. A
mobile unit, the trailer unit, is probably twice that, a $150,000 to $160,000. And
this will provide the efficiency that we need to fill those bottles.
So one, yeah, as Chief Perreira said we had a donated unit from the Hilo, our
station. When they built their new station, their old compressor was still good
need to retrofit. They donated it to us, we're in the process of getting that
retrofitted and installed to get it up and running at Waiakea Fire Station. So that
would bring us up to three compressors again. But we still want to pursue getting
more. So we're still looking at the AFG Grant for next cycle, which is for next
year later this year and then pursuing PGV Funds possibly to getting more. So
ideally, we could get upwards of five more units that we can spread out
throughout the departments and provide the resources needed to fill those bottles.
Right now we currently have just two stations that have that, yeah, Makalei and
Haihai Fire Stations, one on each side of the island. And then we always tap into
partnerships with both of our stations and even PTA (Pohakuloa Training Area) as
needed.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So why this is important is because if there's a wildfire
down south, you'd have to go all the way to Makalei to fill up your bottles.
Correct?
MR. OKINAKA: Yeah, not necessarily wildfires. We could use it there; we
usually use it mostly for structure fires.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Structure fires. But fires in general.
MR. OKINAKA: Correct, right. So the SCBA bottles if you're not familiar with
it, is the air tank and the packs we put on our firefighters to enter the fire to
provide breathing air while they enter the fire. So yeah, it's important for the
safety of our firefighters so they can get in there. And we've had incidences
where we had multiple fires, you know, within a days' time and it can deplete our
bottles. Luckily, we've been able to accomplish, you know, getting the
recharging, or refilling of the bottles as needed. But it's definitely high priority
that we have to get addressed.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Right, thank you. And let's stay in touch on leveraging the
Geothermal Fund for community benefits. That's something that's housed within
planning. Just a few more questions. Chief, in years passed we've been provided
with a list on replacement of apparatus. Are you guys still continuing with that,
and if so, what do you have on the list to replace and what stations or
communities around the island are going to be benefitting?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So currently right now we have—we're at our max
for our apparatus replacement program. So we're at just about a million dollars a
year we're spending on that apparatus. And so our next purchase will not be until
2023.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: We are getting new ambulances so those are
continuing, and we also are getting some donated brush tankers that are—one has
arrived, and the second will be coming in shortly, from an anonymous donor.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. Speaking of ambulance's we've got one
in Hawaiian Paradise Park Station 18. Last fiscal year I believe I gave a few
thousand dollars to erect a tent so that we are protecting our apparatus. Just
looking for a status report on where we are with that, and if issues have been
worked out with Public Works. Because it's critical that we are expanding that
particular station to meet the growing needs of Hawaiian Paradise Park. I've
toured that facility, shame that grown men have to live in such tight quarters.
And that we have these beautiful apparatus high dollar machines out there in the
elements. So if there's some things that need to be unlocked in Public Works'
side, please let us know so that we can help you unlock.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Thank you. We've been working with Public
Works, there's plans for dormitory that would comfortably sleep our personnel
there. And that way one of the bedrooms would turn into an office. Currently
right now the living room is an office, kitchen, exercise area. And so yes, it is
tight quarters and we've been working. We have plans that have been drawn, and
permits are being worked on. Obviously, you guys all know that process takes
some time. And so we continue to push.
We thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz, for your support of getting that tent. It is erected
and the truck is under it. Our ambulance is able to be garaged along with our new
brush truck and secured and locked. And so we continue to push, and we
continue to build relationships with other departments so that we can get the work
done that we need done. And that is a very important project, because currently
we're sleeping four people, four men, in a two-bedroom house.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chief. And, you know,just couple of other
things here. Central Fire Station, eye sore you guys, it's a total eye sore. What
can we do there? I mean is there a public-private partnership where we can
leverage community partners that want to pressure wash and kind of beautify that
space. I want to make sure that we are taking care of our assets. What can we
do?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So we've talked about those types of ideas, and
because of the type of construction, the concrete,we're being told that pressure
washes is going to make it fall apart. And so, you know, it's unfortunate that it's
gotten to this point. Every year we work on more and more things that need to be
fixed there, and I believe the cost is somewhere around $8.5 million right now.
And so I believe the holdup is the consultant or design firm that originally did the
plans. The person has left and moved to Korea, or something like that. And so
the process has to start pretty much back at zero. And so that's where that's at,
you know, it's really not any one person's fault. I believe it's, you know, years
of, you know, you guys all know the amount of work that needs to go into a
project from start to finish.
Just trying to get it off the planning and moving forward with a permit. That
station needs a total overhaul. ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act),
hardening, it needs electrical work; it needs structural work; it needs roof work.
Yeah, it'sI have been this close, and I'm holding my finger about an inch from
pulling the trigger to close the station. And it's so hard, because it's in the heart
of Hilo. And our personnel are serving the community there, and it will affect
response times. And believe me, sometimes it's hard to sleep at night knowing
our personnel are sleeping or staying in a station that may not be safe.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chief, for sharing. You know, I want to end
this on a high note. Special mahalo to Captain Stacy Domingo for all of her work
to bring forth the Mental Health First Aid Certification Program here on our
island. I know that she's trained up a number of folks on Hawaii Island that are
going to be certifying our firefighters. So do you want to just spend a couple of
minutes talking to us about what Mental Health First Aid Certification is?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yeah, so Captain Domingo is spearheading that
project and alongside other community partners. And I was just in a meeting the
other day that highlighted that, or actually looking at moving that forward even
more. We understand that the health and welfare of our personnel—our greatest
assets is our personnel—and the health and welfare of our personnel is number
one. If we're not healthy, if the first responders aren't healthy mentally,
physically, we cannot serve our community. And so we understand that we have
a heart, we have people that have a heart to help our first responders and help our
brothers and sisters. And so we're supporting that a 100 percent, and so we're
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working together alongside other community partners to help build that support
and to help move that mental health forward.
And it's kind of amazing there's a psychologist from Honolulu that was working
with Honolulu Police Department, that wants to expand and work with the whole
State. And so she was at that meeting and it's just great to see people that we're
recognizing what the first responders see every day and deal with every day.
We're human, it affects us, and it affects us in bad ways sometimes, you know, a
lot of times. And that's where we need to step in and help recognize that
somebody is going through something and help them so that they can be healthy,
they can take of their family, and then obviously they can serve the community in
the job that we have, the great job that we have.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chief. I really appreciate your honesty and
transparency. I know it's difficult to often talk about the problems that your
department is facing. But for all County departments if we don't know this body
cannot help. So thank you. I think this is a productive conversation. Chair, I
yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz.
Mr. Richards, go ahead please.
MR. RICHARDS: Thanks, Chair. Thanks Chief, for being here. Couple of
questions. This is kind of a carryover from Chief Rosario. (Inaudible) calls the
trucks "apparatus." On your equipment, it's my understanding that the
department has worked very diligently on getting a planned equipment retirement
program. Meaning, so we're getting new equipment every year, and we've
worked into that, and we are at the stage now where that is working. Is that a
correct statement? Meaning we're getting the right equipment as it reaches end of
life. And I know there's some trucks out there that can vote, but is that working?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So I'm going to say, yes and no.
MR. RICHARDS: Sounds like a politician.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yeah. Yes, because we're better off than we used
to be. And no, because, you know, our ambulance fleet, we're about four or five
ambulances that are overdue. And that's managed by our State. Our budget with
the State is something that we're working on. And that doesn't afford us enough
funding to purchase ambulances that we need annually. And so that's one area.
On the truck side, you know, I'm thankful to the Finance Department, to
Director Sako, for the $1 million cap every year that we can use. That's great.
Trucks aren't getting cheaper. Our truck is about$770,000. So with the
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lease-purchase program that Chief Rosario put into place it has helped. It has
helped greatly. But the cost is going up, right. It used to be $300 and something
thousand, it used to be five, and now its $770,000 right around there, $735,000
maybe. And these are bids, so we're getting the low bid. And so moving forward
we're going to have to do something.
Now we're going to work with what we have. Like I said, that's why I said yes.
You know, it's better than what used to be. Currently we have a hazmat truck that
needs to be replaced and two brush trucks that needs to be replaced that are
overdue. But we need to wait. We need to stay within our budget. So we're
going to work and do that, and we're also going to look at alternative funding.
You know, we've gotten these generous donations and so now maybe what we
need to do is start to let this donor know, "Hey we need actually this." If we're
going to continue to get donations let's focus on what we really need. We have a
lot of brush tankers now, right, off road tankers. So maybe we can focus on
something else.
But in the meantime, it's also, you know, going through our budget line by line
and making sure that our spending is on point and where it's supposed to be so
that we can be, I guess, be right in what we're doing and see where we can
improve and our priorities. And, you know, it's tough. It's a balancing act. And,
you know, number one is always going to be our personnel safety. And that's
where, you know, there's a lot of things we got to focus on in personnel safety.
It's a yes and a no. You know, we're better than we used to be, but we're not
where we need to be.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And this is actually kind of on the heels about what
Mr. Chung was asking about. So what I'm hearing is you got to tell us where you
want to go with that budget. And a question real quick. Deanna, Director of
Finance, you don't need to come to the table. Question yes, or no. This lease is it
lease to own or is it—yes, okay. Director of Finance is nodding yes, so it's lease
to own. So we own the equipment at the end.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yeah, it's a five-year.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. So that's working. And we don't control the State
funding with the ambulances. But we have enough trouble with funding from the
State right now. So that's something we need to work on.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yes. So we are making proposals and we do what
we need to, and Chief Honda is going to be continuing to work on that. We may
look at a lease purchase for our ambulances so that we can get more in a year
instead of only getting one. This year we may be able to get two, because its
sounds like our funding is going to come through. But that's all contingent on the
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State, right. So that's where we have to work hard and lobby so we can get more
funding.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Now continuing on with the equipment. The boats and
I don't know what you call them, the watercraft the Sea-Doo whatever.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yeah. It's called watercraft.
MR. RICHARDS: Whatever you call them. My understanding you could use
some watercrafts, and your boats were okay, they're being re-built.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: I'm going to let Chief Okinaka, answer that
question. Because I know that answer, but he's managing that.
MR. OKINAKA: To start off with the rescue boats, we have a couple of different
dilemmas right now. Each side of the island has two vessels, yeah, one frontline
one backup. We just found out that the reserve vessel, which has been out of
commission for about half a year now with a fuel tank leak, because the vessel is
so old, the cost of the repair outweighs the benefit of repairing it. So we just
made the decision to decommission that boat. So we just have one vessel in Hilo.
The West Hawaii reserve vessel has had a fuel tank leak also for a number of
years now. I don't have the exact timeline off the top of my head. But that has
been out. So we currently have just one vessel at each side. The frontline vessel
in West Hawaii is a Radon that's been older, but they prefer that vessel for the
work that they do. So you folks all know of Sayre Foundation and the work
they've done for us. So a number of years back they actually got donations for a
retrofit on that Radon vessel to get up and running. But it is an aged vessel and
we're seeing, you know, mechanical failures here and there. So we're constantly
doing small repairs on that vessel. It's operating but there's currently one concern
we have to get addressed also. So we're waiting for that to get done.
The repair on their backup vessel, we've had a quote just over a year now to get it
done but we just didn't have the funds to do it. It was upwards of$25,000, and
we just didn't have the available funds to get the repair done. So we're waiting
to, you know, get funding to get it done.
As far as the East Hawaii boat it's running, but again, it's about time we start
looking at renewing, yeah. We never really had a program like an apparatus
replacement program for these vessels. So in my current position now I'm
directly overseeing, you know, the special operations with the loss of the position
that we had. So I've been trying to work with the stations and the Captains to see
what's the next step we can do and how we can go about starting the process of
identifying the next vessel that we want, and then of course the funding of the
vessels.
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So for the past couple of months, we've been in a process of researching, at least
for West Hawaii. So I recently got a quote back. It's real preliminary, but they
identify one type of vessel that we have to discuss if that's something that really
want to go. But that vessel is designed for rescue use, and the cost is upwards of
$350,000. And that would be ship, training, trailer and everything, but that's what
we're looking at for that vessel.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, now when you talk about, they have aged, okay. I have
age, and Councilman Inaba has age and it's a very different age between.
Specify, what are we talking 20 years?
MR. OKINAKA: So the Radon yeah, I believe in `86 or `89. Sorry I don't have
that exact date, but it's an 80's model so it's 30 years old. The Force, which is the
reserve vessel for West Hawaii, and the frontline vessel for East Hawaii is a
Force boat which was purchased in 2006 I believe, so not as old. But like I said,
West Hawaii, they prefer the Radon that they've been using, which is an older
boat, but a number of years back was refurbished. It was before I got this
position, so I don't have that exact timeline. So I apologize for that. So the Force
isn't as old, but it's, you know, so that the Hilo one, like I said, Waiakea is
running.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, so my understanding is we have to look at this to start
talking about including it into your equipment rollover. And then addition to that
the watercraft, I know there's a shortage of those on this island. Is that a fair
statement?
MR. OKINAKA: It's pretty much wherever we look.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay.
MR. OKINAKA: It's because of COVID and the manufacturer isn't able to keep
up with the demand. I'm not sure it could be just building the parts, the
manufacture of the parts. But we had some funding in our budget, so we
purchased, we put out a bid for two rescue watercrafts. So we have two that we
awarded. But in the process of just getting quotes we went through, gosh, about
five different vendors and they didn't have a timeline on delivery.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay.
MR. OKINAKA: Because they themselves are having a hard time getting the
skis. We found one that said he could get it, but it was a stipulation with a
delayed delivery. So the contract was awarded, because he was the only vendor
that could provide it and we need the skis. So we're expecting the first one to be
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delivered hopefully by the end of this month. And then he said the second one
possibly in June, but he couldn't give us a definite timeline.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. So quick answers, or quick questions and quick
answers. How many on this island of those type of crafts do we need? How
many do we actually have?
MR. OKINAKA: So we had four. We currently have two in service, right now.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And how many if the wish list would be four, six, or
eight?
MR. OKINAKA: Six. The wish list is six, because the goal was to start a second
crew in Kona, in West Hawaii.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And then rough cost, I mean we're not going to hold
these to you, but this is budget here and we got to know where we're headed.
MR. OKINAKA: We're looking at around between $15,000, and $20,000 per
ski.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And the reason we're asking you these questions is
because we're talking about funding coming through the Recovery Act and the
JOBS Act(Jumpstart Our Business). There may be stuff, and this is the kind of
stuff we can get shovel ready. Keep looking over at Director and she's nodding
vigorously. So with that, personnel, I know—and this probably comes
MR. OKINAKA: Can I just make one point, before we move forward, sorry?
MR. RICHARDS: Sure.
MR. OKINAKA: So we've purchased two, we have two that was awarded. I just
got an email from Laura Sayre that she has funding for two more I believe. So
we're looking at I have to get her again, a vendor that has it. And then she'll go
and make the purchase. So we should be getting two more. So if that all goes
through then two more is what the wish list would be for.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And this is the kind of stuff that we need to know, and
this is kind of on the heels of what Councilman Chung was talking about. What
do we need to get things whole? You know, I think it's very appropriate right
now to give a big shout-out to the Sayre Foundation for all the support they
offered our fire crews. And they have worked, I mean I tell you what, Sayre, that
family has worked diligently to support us. So again, thanks to them.
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Which comes up to the personnel. I know we're running some crews. I don't
know what the official terminology is, but there's a national standard of how
many people on a piece of equipment. And I know that in some areas we are
pushing the envelope as far as that goes. And this probably again, comes back to
you Chief, as far as we look to the personnel numbers. I know sometimes our
drivers or firemen double as drivers whatever the case may be. What is the
number of people we need to make that one with the recommendations? I know
they're not hard and fast guidelines, but the recommendations. How far away are
we from that number?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So first of all, with our new Battalion Chiefs put
into place in February, we had a Battalion Chief operations meeting. And one of
the topics that I wanted covered was our staffing. I wanted to ensure that staffing
was consistent, consistently done on each Battalion each shift the same way with
our leaders, and our Battalion Chiefs of operations, they manage the staffing on a
day-to-day basis. And so that happened. Chief Okinaka leads that division. And
so the meeting was held, and we increased certain station staffing, within the
means of our staffing. Because right now well as of February 1st° we only had
one firefighter vacancy on the whole island, all other firefighter positions were
filled. So knowing that our staffing was heavy we wanted to make sure that we
move our staff around to support the operations so we can operate safer.
And so we did that, since then we've also had our paramedic class start. So
there's seven firefighters that are in paramedic class for a year, so that's seven
vacancies. On a daily basis, well not daily basis, they're on different shifts. So
there's seven vacancies there, so eight vacancies. We've also seen some light
duty assignments for various reasons. And so our staffing has dropped a little,
and so there's definitely going to be, you know, that's going to definitely affect
our ability to beef-up staffing at our stations.
Now if you're talking about the national standard of staffing, that is a
recommendation. And so if we're going to move towards national standards,
we're looking at having to get about 117 firefighters.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And that was the question, because it's coming from
Chief Rosario previous when he was talking about going forward. And again, to
me, obviously our county can't afford to hire 100 new firefighters. But again,
direction, where do we need to start walking towards and how we're going to get
there? So I appreciate that.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So I have another thing I can add to that. This
year the Safer Grant, is a grant that we're applying for. The Safer Grant is
paying there's no match to that grant and there used to be a match. And so the
Safer Grant has offered a three-year payment of personnel. And so I met with
Mayor Roth, Managing Director Lord, and Finance Director Sako, and we looked
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at where we could support in three years, what we could support in three years?
Because what it is the Safer Grant would support for three years, and then the
fourth year we'd have to cover it.
And so Mayor Roth came up with a $1 million amount. That attributed to nine
positions. So it's six captain positions and three firefighter positions. Six captain
positions—we've got four stations that are not staffed with a captain. We call
them supervisory stations. Those are Ocean View, Laupahoehoe, Paradise Park,
and Waikoloa. If we had the Safer Grant two of those stations would receive
captains, because there would be three for each station one for each shift.
And then we would have three firefighter positions that we'd need to place
somewhere. And so that's where we rounded out the million dollars to. And we
believe that the captains at the stations is very important because of the leadership
that they bring and the experience they would bring to that crew.
And so that's a promising thing for the future. We need to secure the Safer Grant
first of all. But, you know, working with the Mayor and obtaining, you know, the
ability to grow in three years to at least a million dollars more of a budget. That's
a great thing, a step in the right direction. Obviously it's not 117, but it's nine.
That's nine closer to where we need to be. So that's something that we're doing
that we've applied for. It's in the works, and we'll see what happens with it.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And appreciate that. Chief, final area I want to touch
on has to do with the payroll and the conversation about overtime. And last year
the numbers, metrics, were about 75 percent of the overtime in our County went
to Fire Department. And overtime is one way of managing need. But if we need
more people so there's less overtime there's a metric in there. And it's not as
simple it's just to say more people, less overtime. So can you just answer that
question and how that would—if we had more people would that affect our
overtime financially in favor of reducing overall cost? It won't lower your
budget, but I think you understand.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: I believe it would and I think we've shown that it
does. So we were up to 50 vacancies, I believe, in about two or three years ago.
And slowly but surely have worked, you know, with the help of retired Chief
Lance Uchida, was a strong push, we had two recruit classes a year. And we got
to this point of no vacancies, technically. I say it's one firefighter in February, but
that's just because we couldn't predict how many people were retiring last year.
We were close, we missed it by one. So we would have had a full complement of
personnel.
So, you know, it does reduce overtime cost. We see it on a daily basis. I'm sent a
roster and you can see the recall, and recall is overtime. And you can see that it's
down, right? And so that is very—having proper staffing, having our personnel
come to work, right, building morale, making sure people coming to work is very
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important to affect our bottom line, our financial effectiveness. So we need to
encourage that, we need to build our teams and ensure people are coming to work.
We as Administration need to fill positions, we need to recruit, we need to do our
job and get those positions filled. And then that's going to help save money and it
shows on a daily basis. I remember a year ago, we had 17 people a day on recall,
now we've got maybe one, maybe two.
Our paramedics are short right now. We're down I think 10 or 11 paramedics
short. And so we're going to see overtime there. But as far as our firefighter
positions, you know, we've done a great job in getting them filled and that helps
with our recall.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you very much. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Lee Loy,
go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Chiefs, thanks for being here. I think like my
fellow colleagues, we're all on the same line. But I had some questions, because
we always talk about funding and you guys are doing a wonderful job with, you
know, the philanthropical dollars along with grant funding. But I was wondering
if you guys have ever tried to utilize the sponsorship agreement when you guys
are seeking funding? Maybe that's something you guys should look into.
I also noticed that you folks have a strategic plan, which is actually very exciting
to me. You're one of the few departments with a strategic plan, because we
actually can see where you guys are going. My other question was around crowd
sourcing for equipment and/or gear. You know, you guys have a very strong
union, you know, across all of our municipals. And I was just wondering if any
thought have been given to crowd sourcing some of the equipment that I know is
required for all the departments across our State.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So we do piggyback with Honolulu Fire on the
bid for firefighter gear. You know, and up until November, the apparatus
replacement program was run by Chief Rosario. And so we were bidding those
out. But I believe that we as a department need to look at all opportunities of
purchasing vehicles. And maybe we need to look at going to a different program
like a national program or some other program where, yeah, you may not get
exactly what you want. You may not have it built custom to exactly what you
want, but if you, you know, find something that works you may be able to
standardize what works, yeah.
And so we've been looking at that in the ambulance side too, where you're going
to get some cost benefit by buying, I'll just use the word cookie cutter, right. And
you might save $50,000 a vehicle, or $30,000. I'm not sure exactly on the
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numbers. But obviously we know that when you buy like that or in bulk you're
going to save. And so that's stuff that I believeI'm just going to say it. The
next Administration is going to have to take on and look at because we're going
to have to continue to do more with less.
And, you know, not so much saying less, but even with, you know, we're using
our taxpayer's money. So we got to be good about that, and we got to make sure
we're doing the right things and not just buying what we want verses what we
need, yeah, and trying use something that we can have. And we want good stuff,
because it's going to last. But we need to explore ways to get our products and,
you know, look at the different avenues for that.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. And I know with the procurement law the wat that it is, I
know crowd sourcing for purchasing across the State might be a little wonky, but
I think with some concerted effort there actually will be huge opportunities. And
if you guys can crack that nut or at least unlock it a little bit, we might be able to
see some of that across all of our other agencies. I did have one more question
around of course the permitting process and I know that's—Chief Perreira is
smiling because that's something he took care of us for a very long time.
Where are we? And I ask this question because there's a big push related to
EnerGov and standing up the building or our Construction Code process. And we
all know Fire has a piece in that, not only in the issuance of our Construction
Codes, but also with our Subdivision Code. And we heard earlier today that
Director Kern is looking at an audit as it relates to Chapter 23, which is a portion
of our Subdivision Code. Where are we on the NFPA (National Fire Protection
Association)?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So currently Acting Battalion Chief Kyle Vares is
working on reviewing the State amendments and working on the County
amendments. And that's a big undertaking. I've had some meetings with him
and trying to share my insight because I used to be in that division. And being the
Acting Fire Chief, basically, that falls on my shoulders. We're going to need to
continue to push that forward with the next Administration. And, you know,
that's going to require some collaborative effort.
You know, we've built a good relationship with the Finance Director and the
Finance team. And one of the areas that held us back from moving forward with
that was our plan review fees. And I believe that we need to move that forward in
whatever fashion is decided on by the Mayor and the Finance Director, whether
those funds go directly to the General Fund or those funds get partially sent to the
Fire Department so that we can help support some of our programs for the
community or some of our efforts for the community. That's something we're
going to have to sit down and talk about, because that's held up our process
before. And I think we're in a good position right now to move forward with that.
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And, you know, it's going to take a lot of effort on the Prevention Bureau right
now to put together that amendment package and go before you folks, and the
community, and get that County amendments for the Fire Code pass.
MS. LEE LOY: So what year are we at with the NFPA?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So currently we're in the 2006, with amendments.
We are actively working on the 2018 with the amendments. So we've skipped
through the `12 which the State went to and we're actively working on the
amendments for the `18.
MS. LEE LOY: And so, Chief, when you talk about holding back, right, the plan
review fee was holding us back, is it a requirement that NFPA be adopted just like
the rest of our Construction Codes?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yes.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay, so
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So technically at the County level right now an
applicant can use the 2012 NFPA I as the Fire Code.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay, great. And you know, Kyle's awesome, he really is doing
an awesome job. Have you folks engaged in any of the EnerGov conversation?
And I'm asking because you guys are one agency that needs to kind of dip in and
out of that. A couple of us on this dais are looking at that EnerGov process and
we see it as a pathway to resources. The quicker we go vertical, the quicker we
can tax. The more we can tax, the more funding there is for all you good people.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yeah. So the Fire Prevention Bureau, we were
actively involved in that whole process. And I'm just going to be honest, lately it
seems like it's been a quiet process. They haven't involved us as much. And so
knowing that it's going to get rolled out soon, you know, Acting Battalion
Chief Vares, will need to start working together with Public Works and Planning
to get involved. We were involved with knowing what type of equipment we
needed to purchase and those kinds of things. But, you know, it's been a long,
drawn-out process that seemed like it fell off the radar for a while. And so
hopefully, you know, their moving that forward now with the new
Administration. And, you know, the Fire Prevention Bureau is ready to move
forward.
We've implemented a 24-hour program that we've seen many great benefits from.
We've increased our output of plan reviews, about 100 more a year we were able
to put out. So that's great. We've reduced the time that our community is waiting
for their plans to come back from the Fire Department. And so, you know, we've
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seen nothing but good improvements in that area. So we continue to work hard. I
mean, you know, there's influxes of plans. One month you might have 200 plans
come in and the next month you might have 800 plans come in. It just depends.
But the staff is ready, and they know the importance of getting those plans
reviewed properly, number one properly; and then number two, getting them out
there quickly back to the applicants.
MS. LEE LOY: There was a little bit of a shift too, right, with the understanding
of the plan review room and fire. I think there was a time where it was done
either after hours or after duty. But there was a business decision to be made or
has been made that they could do it even on a weekend. Is that correct?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So yeah, that's where the 24-hour program has
kicked in. Where our personnel are there up to 8:00-9:00 o'clock at night,
working on it weekends, holidays. Their office is actually in the room. They
have a phone, printer, and everything there. At times they'll sit there all day, it
just depends on the need. They manage that, they look at the influx of plans
coming in and they adjust to the need. I've been there. I've been in that bureau.
I've ran that bureau. I see the need and I know that's a priority. And so I've
insured in my position as Assistant Chief of Support Services and then Deputy
Chief and now Acting Chief, I've always push to make that a priority.
And obviously there's other priorities that come up, a fire happens they have to go
investigate they need to leave. There's inspections that have to happen for
construction projects. So they have to balance it. But, you know, the directive is
there. Get it done, you know, spend time in there, and that is key component.
And since I've been in the last six months, I haven't gotten any phones calls in the
Chief's Office saying, "Hey we waiting on these guys." You know, they've been
doing the work. So it's good.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. And I've been here sometimes late or on the weekends
and they're in there. So yeah, they are working hard. You know, maybe as part
of your strategic plan going forward from 2021 through 2025, you know, that
maybe some attention be given to allowing Kyle, or whomever after, the
permission to continue to engage with EnerGov, because it really is a critical link
to funding. Real property tax is our largest source of funding. And I want all the
departments to recognize their intrinsic relationship to that, even if it might be
small or just one touch point.
You know, the other part as it relates to EnerGov is the training on the back end.
We heard earlier today Director Kern talk about future plans, whether it was a
change of zone, whether it was SMA (Special Management Area), inspections, or
subdivision applications. That's when you guys are going to jump back in. So
whatever that funding might look like, you know,please give some thought to
that going forward. Because there's going to be need for training, and as people
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advance, you know, you're going to need onboard them and train them. Because
Chief Perreira, you know, these are very complex codes. A number of people
have their own lens on how to pick and choose what they want to utilize. Chair, I
yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Ms. Kimball, go ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Chiefs, for being here today and
of course everything you do, and your team does on a daily basis to protect our
community. A lot of the questions I had have already been asked. But
Mr. Richards mentioned funding coming in through either the American Rescue
Package or the American Jobs Program and I noticed you guys have four CIP
(Capital Improvement Projects)projects, different fire stations, you spoke a little
bit about HPP (Hawaiian Paradise Park) already. But could you just give a brief
overview of one, if any of these are close to being shovel ready or what's needed
to get them shovel ready; and two, the urgency. You know, we've been talking
about how to prioritize. You've got to prioritize here in own set of four, but how
they need to be prioritized with respect to all the other CIP requests out there. So
could you speak to that please, thank you?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yes, I can. So if you look at number one, I
believe it's the Kea`au Fire Station. And how I prioritize that is that we recently
had to relocate our Kea`au Fire Station to two houses in Kea`au ag lots because
we had a roof leak and we had asbestos in the tiles. And so the Police Department
is also looking to rebuild Kea`au. And so knowing that they have that as priority
one, I felt that we should align with them and make that also our priority one as a
CIP project. I feel like that's probably the biggest CIP project, aside from all of
the repairs and maintenance we need to do at Central.
But we also have on that list, is Hawaiian Paradise Park. And I really feel like
Hawaiian Paradise Park is probably the lowest hanging fruit. If we can get the
plans for Hawaiian Paradise Park completed and the permit issued, I believe that
we could get that project done this fiscal year. And that would be a great benefit
to our department. I believe Honoka`a Fire Station is also another one that we
have on the list. And, you know, we talk about Paradise Park Fire Station and the
guys having to sleep in such tight quarters. Honoka`a Fire Station is no different.
There's personnel there that are sleeping bed next to bed, they can hold hands.
And everybody's in the same room and with COVID, you know, that's not a good
thing. So Honoka`a is a priority.
And then I believe the last one is our mechanic shop, yeah. And so, you know,
our mechanics they serve our whole island, and they do a lot of good work. And
we need to expand that couple bays for them there. It's also very close to shovel
ready project. Believe it or not in 1993 there was plans. I didn't know about it
until about two months ago. So we actually had plans to do what we want to do at
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the mechanic shop. So those are being redone because the person that did it
doesn't qualify anymore. It's old already so they have to start all over. But
somebody had the foresight to add in the roof and the power and the lift over
there. And so hopefully we can move that 1993 foresight to today. And we have
funds in the there's so much things running through my head but the fair share.
So because the mechanic shop manages our repairs from all districts, we can take
funding from all districts to support that. So we actually have some funding that
we could use to start that project. Yeah.
MS. KIMBALL: Great. So just to make sure I've got this clear. Of the four HPP
and the warehouse and storage is what it's listed in here are the most shovel ready
in terms of being at a place where their getting permits.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Sorry. Not the warehouse and storage, it's
actually the mechanic shop.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. What's listed in the budget is warehouse and storage.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Okay.
MS. KIMBALL: In this Capital Improvement budget.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yeah. There maybe a littleI'm not sure if the
mechanic shop one is a CIP project because of the fair share funding.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: But the warehouse and storage, you know,
currently our warehouse, we went vertical in the warehouse and so it's better than
it used to be. But the warehouse and storage is on there because the warehouse
needs to be expanded. Where our fire dispatch center is going to be, there was
plans for a warehouse there. But I believe there maybe plans for Civil Defense
possibly to be located there also. So we may lose our warehouse there. So that's
why we're trying to locate a spot for the warehouse, which maybe—Schultz
Siding has been offered. So we may be looking at that. So on the CIP list, if you
went down that list, then our Hawaiian Paradise Park would be the most shovel
ready.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. For the Kea`au Fire Station are you looking at a
combined facility for you and Police there?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yes.
MS. KIMBALL: That doesn't have any work done on it yet?
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ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: No.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. And then the Central Fire Station, not on the CIP
budget, you mentioned $8.5 million or something. Is that because it's historic, is
that one of the reasons for particularly high cost?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: It's historic. I believe 1940. But this has been
years of, I'm just going to say it, neglect. You know, we've got roofs falling
down, we got leaks; and we've got electrical issues. We're running on a
residential power, and we should be on commercial power. And so the power's
got to be relocated to Ponahawai Street of the building. Currently we're coming
off of Kino`ole Street and it's only a 100-amp service and we need to be 400 amp.
We need a backup generator, we need paint; we need ADA, hardening.
Hardening means doors, windows, yeah, there's a lot of work.
MS. KIMBALL: Is that particular location something that can be made shovel
ready fairly easily? Again, with this mindset that we're looking at infrastructure
investment, I can see a lot of it being directed towards folks that are first line, you
know, frontline workers as you guys have been, through this COVID
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: We could immediately relocate them.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, understood.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: That would mean that we'd need to find housing
in that area. But we could immediately relocate them if they told us the project
was moving.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. But are the permits in place? Or you had to go back to
the drawing board because the design needed to be redone.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yeah, so it's in Public Works hands right now.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. Thank you all for that clarification. I just want to get my
mind around where this is, and again, thinking of directing money your way. Sue
talks about the need for EnerGov with respect to funding and revenue. I think
about it in terms with the need to complete Public Works projects like fire stations
and bridges, and bridges, and bridges.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: And even our Aupuni Center there, their roof is
also leaking. You know, there's a lot of projects around the County that we need
to do.
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MS. KIMBALL: Yup. So we are subject to the permitting process just like
everybody else is and expediting it for everyone means Public Works projects get
done faster as well. So mahalo for your time and appreciate it. I yield, Chair.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms. David, go
ahead.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair. And Chief, thank you very much for being here
today. And I think the explanation, your presentation, and everything that being
discussed right now it just brings to light how important and how so behind in all
of the improvements that I think really you folks and the Police Department are
deserving of. I've seen the Police Department barracks in Captain Cook, and I'm
just appalled that our very frontline people are being asked to stay in situations
such as that. And so I'm really glad to hear that, you know, although we need to
pretty much change the way we see things so we can at least get things done,
that's important to you folks, because you folks are very important to keeping our
island safe.
I don't have a magic wand, but I just really believe that the discussion that we're
having today brings awareness to everybody. Not only this body, but the
community as well. And anything that we can probably do from now between
our end of budget time, let us know and help us in trying to find some kind of
solutions. I really want to thank the Sayre's also. I miss those attending the Sayre
Foundation. It's such a beautiful thing that they do. And so that's one of the
positive things for the department. And I just want to express my appreciation for
you guys and for what they do.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yeah. And please don't get us wrong. We're
thankful because over the last few years we've gotten, or numerous years we
gotten new Fire Stations. And, you know, from Pahoa to Makalei to Haihai, you
know, millions of dollars. And now Ka`u Fire Station roof is being funded to
repair. You know, so we're thankful for what we're receiving. And, you know,
we know that we have many needs, and the County has many needs. And so
we're thankful. And we want to work together and that's what we've been doing.
Ever since I came on board it's about building relationships with the other
departments and agencies and the Council, and just how we can do this together
and move forward what we have to move forward. My kuleana right now is the
Fire Department. But, you know, it's not like we don't see all the other needs that
are out there too. So thank you guys for your guys' support.
MS. DAVID: Yes. And thank you. Chair, I yield. Mahalo.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. David. Mr. Inaba, go
ahead.
MR. INABA: I'll keep this short. Okay. We talked about the shortage of
Paramedic's 10 or 11; we don't get short overnight. So what's kind of a strategy
that we might be trying to employ to prevent or to kind of counteract that
shortage?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So I'm going to say why the shortages happened
and then I'm going to turn it over to Chief Honda, because he has a lot of
answers.
MR. INABA: Okay.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: The shortages happened because, you know,
paramedics went to school for a year, they're highly trained, skilled, and they
manage the Emergency Medical Services calls. So they're responding to the
majority of the calls and they're running those calls. When I say they're running
those calls, they're managing those calls. And they become experienced, and they
become good leaders; and then they get promoted to a driver on the fire truck.
And then we lose them. And so I'll let Chief Honda know, he can explain how
we're going to combat that.
MR. HONDA: Thank you. You know, it's a tough situation, but we firmly
believe that, you know, the paramedic program is a great leadership program. It
trains you to mitigate situations, delegate, and it's not easy. And that's what we
learn in paramedic school. But one of the things that we've started probably
about eight years ago, is we started a marketing program, marketing our
department, going to the EMT (Emergency Medical Technician)programs across
the State, who we are and what we do. And what we saw once we started that, we
started seeing State licensed EMT's applying for our department, which was a
cost savings for us.
And also, we identified that those individuals had a strong interest in EMS.
Percentagewise, the EMT's that came in licensed into our department pursued
paramedic school. And what we also do in recruit class is we ask as they
graduate, "Who's interested in EMS field?" We stay on top of them, we help
them; we follow up on their prerequisites that are required by Kapi`olani
Community College. And as we get closer, we help them apply. And we start
hosting MICT (Mobile Intensive Care Technician), or paramedic prep courses.
That started, geez, must be 12, 15 years ago in my garage. Guy's that wanted to
learn would come over and we'd go over anatomy,physiology, deceased
processes. And through Chief Oliveira it started to become a formal program. So
with that we'd try to keep the interest of the individuals, get them into class.
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And prior to myself getting into the EMS bureau we would see class of three or
four paramedic students and over the years we've seen those numbers increases
five, six and up to 10 at one time. Couple classes ago they only took 12 and
couple of our guys didn't get in. So we've seen the interest. Currently we have
seven in class, and we have another possibly five that's going to start this August.
So two paramedic classes going on simultaneously. So we're working with
Kapi`olani Community College, who's the only agency that can teach or certify
paramedics in the state. Because it has to be an accredited program to become a
State Licensed Paramedic in the State of Hawaii.
With that of course when our paramedics are online, we try to support them as
best as we can with training equipment things like that, and support them, and
make sure they're appreciated out there. And we're also looking at other options
for rank incentives to run and come back to fill open vacancies for long term. So
we're looking at multiple different things. And of course we started the career
ladder in 2010 to increase upper mobility if you chose to go down the Emergency
Medical Services pathway for promotion in the future. So those are some of the
things that we're doing to help with that. And of course we're always trying just
burn out, decrease call volume, low QD (Qualified Disabled) call programs,
community paramedicine prevention programs. Of course our CISM (Critical
Incident Stress Management Program, along with Captain Domingo
implementing suicide prevention, or awareness with our CISM Team. So we're
doing many different things to help recruit and also help with our retention
program.
And then as Chief mentioned that we do see a lot of them promote out. And the
question we get is, how do you guys feel about that? I'm all for promotion. I
think that's great. Because it strengthens our department and our service. So now
you got State of Hawaii licensed and nationally certified paramedics on fire
trucks or utility vehicles. So whenever you go to an incident there's a high
probability that there's a paramedic there who can do a good assessment, which
ultimately makes it safer for our personnel as well as the community. So it does
strengthen the program, yes.
MR. INABA: Okay, you mentioned Kapi`olani Community College being the
only program in the State. Do we have programs outside of the State that we're
able to tap into that would allow the certification here within the State?
MR. HONDA: Yeah, good question. So we did look at different agencies and we
looked on the West Coast and I looked into Southern California area. And one
program that really stood out was the UCLA (University of California, Los
Angeles)program. So we actually made contact with the program as well as
some private colleges in the San Diego area. What would it take for them to do
an online synchronous or asynchronous course here? The options were open.
And we also asked how much it would cost to have an instructor come and teach
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here. Could we pay for the instructor to teach here and stay here for the duration
of the didactic portion which is about four months or so?
You know, they weren't too fond of that idea. But you know as far as online
training, about two years ago when we were looking at it, it wasn't as popular as it
now. Like currently because of COVID, and because of EMS as whole across the
country we see a shortage of instructors, which there are some challenges here in
the State as well. So we're currently doing for the first time ever asynchronous
paramedic program. So meaning our paramedic class is going asynchronous
training with other islands through Kapi`olani, which is something we're doing
for the first time. So we're seeing how it's going to go and trying to support our
staff as best as we can, yeah.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. And then as a follow up to this shortage if you
will, I've had concerns raised regarding shutting down medics when we don't
have a paramedic. So how often are we doing that, and is it multiple stations per
shift? Is there a rule against that? Sorry so many questions about that, but we
know that's kind of your primary kuleana here is the safety. And it's scary, scary
business, it sounds like if we don't have those paramedics.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So again, I'll start and then I'll let Chief Honda
give all the technical numbers. But, you know, we saw this problem coming.
And so I met with Managing Director Lord and Finance Director Sako. And I
think the key component with this is that with our personnel reaching what we
call double time, that's 36 hours of work. So now their working more than 36
hours of work. And we feel as, or I feel as the department head, that 36 hours of
work and having somebody continue on further is not safe. They could be tired,
they could make a mistake, they could, you know, hurt themselves or someone
else, God forbid. So we have to make that decision to say okay, no double time,
and that cuts somebody off from working more than 36 hours. We cannot support
it.
Financially obviously that's also not a good thing,but I think the key thing is the
safety of our personnel_ If our personnel are putting in that much time, then we
should break them. We're working with our state EMS to amend our contract to
allow us to downgrade to BLS (Basic Life Support) instead of ALS (Advanced
Life Support). And this is where I'll hand it over to Chief Honda for more of the
details about how often this is happening and how we're moving forward.
MR. HONDA: Yeah, so that question comes up. And as far as the support
services side, what we're really focused on is what do we need to do. And our
recruit retention program definitely is high on the list. And we hope that we can
increase amount of staffing out there as far as paramedics to fill these voids. And
one thing that we're looking at is a rank incentive program. So that is in the
process. Currently we're near completion to that. And we're confident and
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hopeful that we're going to see rank personnel meaning drivers and captains
filling into these positions.
And we strongly as an administration feel that it's a win-win situation. It
compensates our individual personnel that would take a long-term vacancy well.
It saves our department money, and bottom line as it fills the slot and that way, we
don't have downgrade to basic life support ambulance. So that's kind of some of
the things that we're taking towards this challenge that we have currently.
MR. INABA: Okay. I have one more question. I think it might be for you again,
Chief. Regarding public education, I know because of COVID we're not in the
schools like we normally would. But are we doing any kind of outreach?
Because you know our keiki, and my background is in education, love you folks.
So I think there's still opportunity for that public education. I'm just wondering if
there are any ideas on that moving forward.
MR. HONDA: Yeah. So we—training specialist or person that took over
training. That was my previous role project, and promoted, is Captain Domingo.
And yeah, she's been in the schools doing all the virtual programs. Recently there
was a really great video that she worked with Kea`au High School. And they
created I believe was a hands-only CPR video and they're doing great things.
And I believe just yesterday, she was part of a career fair with multiple different
schools online. So we're doing things virtually.
And of course on a regular basis we do get calls in the EMS program about
careers, opportunity. What is it like, what's it takes to become a paramedic, what
are the jobs outlooks? And, you know, the common questions we get are like, do
you have to be a fire fighter to be a paramedic? And the answer is no. Because
many people that grew up on this island only see our system because we're the
only Fire/EMS-based system in the State, every county is different. Maui and
Kauai are private. Honolulu is City and County Ambulance, and City and County
Fire, and we're Fire/EMS together. So we're a dual-role agency. It's an
all-hazards department and we try to break it down and explain to them. And you
know, I think we're doing as much as we can in the schools now.
And we're also doing other things partnering with private agencies, State agencies
on suicide prevention, mental health, things like that; opioid awareness, human
trafficking. We partner with federal and county on education on opioids and
fentanyl, which is a huge concern for us here on our island. NARCAN training,
Naloxine training. So there are multiple different things. I say we're always
involved in education, yeah, and in the schools, it's a big one that we're involved
with.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So to add to that, the Fire Prevention Bureau back
in September during Fire Prevention Week, we actually call it Fire Prevention
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Month here on our island. We created a video that was sent out to all the schools.
Because we usually visit the schools. When COVID wasn't in place we usually
visit 20 to 25 schools and usually kindergarten through sixth grade. And so this
year they created a video and sent it to all the schools so that they could send it to
all the students. And they actually did a station visit. They actually talked about
stop, drop, and roll, and different fire prevention topics. They got some soccer
kids involved and did a stop, drop, and roll, at the soccer field.
And so even with COVID we found different ways to get involved with the
community. And then on the big part is with COVID our Fire Prevention Bureau
and along with other staff, that was on the taskforce or is on the taskforce that
educated the community on COVID, and visited businesses, and helped to, you
know, inspect the businesses and help give them ideas on what they can do so that
they can open up. And that they can continue to generate income for their
families.
And, you know, it's been a tough year, but at the same time with everything else
happening as a department we had to kind of morph into, you know, how we can
help the community in a different way not only responding to their 911 call. But
also to educating them. We had a bunch of people involved with the testing, and
now the vaccines, right. And so that's all ways that the Fire Department is
helping educate and serve the community.
MR. INABA: Okay. Sounds like you folks are working on the concerns I had
already. And we know there's all kind stuff going on across the island, especially
with the facilities. And it sounds like my colleagues here are in total support of
trying to be as helpful as we can to address some of those especially the
conditions in which our first responders are having to stay in. I've also seen
Captain Cook and even Kailua-Kona, and I had my comments that day. But I'll
end it with this, it was a crazy year and I want to mahalo you Chief Perreira for, I
don't think there's any other department that a person had to operate in both
number one and number two positions. So kudos to you and we appreciate all
that you've done.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Thank you. Thank you for your support and
thank you, Council, for your guys' support.
MR. INABA: Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Rebecca, do you
have any questions, any concerns?
MS. VILLEGAS: I think you guys have covered it and I kind of sound more like
wookie than a person right now. Thanks for covering it. Thank you everyone for
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all your questions and answers that the Fire Department has so thoughtfully and
strategically brought forward for us today. Really appreciate it.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Okay,
gentlemen I have some questions for you. Just quick for me, how many calls
COVID and, you know, now. Or pre-COVID, COVID did you see a huge
decrease?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So initially we did see a decrease in call volume
throughChief, was it like March, April, May, kind of with the tourism?
MR. HONDA: Yeah. Right when COVID started March or so last year we went
down as low as 25 percent call volume reduction. And I would say December,
January, we started to see an uptick. And right now we're almost par. I think it
has to do with tourists returning, more people on the road, businesses opening. So
we're definitely seeing an uptick there. So I think we're almost back to pre-
COVID, call volume-wise.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: And don't forget more residents.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I was wondering about that; I was
wondering what your guys' call ratio is fordo you track tourism verses
resident's calls?
MR. HONDA: That's hard to track. That's sometimes a little challenging. As
far as if they live here or not, we could probably query the data with State
Department of Health, Dr. Galanis. But we do monitor monthly, and then we do
breakdown the call volume like when COVID started. We're breaking down like
flu symptoms, pre-COVID verses COVID, and then we did see an uptick in flu
symptoms. And it could be people calling more, because they were paranoid at
that time. They got a cough, so they think they had COVID, so they call 911.
And through the public education that we're doing, hey you don't need to call 911
if you just have a fever. Because what we were worried about is inundating the
hospitals and the 911 system. And, you know, so through education we saw that
it was working. With working closely with Department of Health and
brainstorming Statewide, not just County-wide. We banded together as a state to
give one message working with Department of Health, CDC (Center of Disease
Control), best practice and things like that. And it seems to have worked, but we
were very data driven on call volume; types of calls; admits, ICU admits;people
on ventilators; daily. So we want to be ahead of the eight ball.
We even had a contingency plan of what we do if our hospitals couldn't take any
more patients. What kind of pamphlets were we going to do, where are we going
to take them, the mortuary issues and things like that. We just wanted to be really
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ahead just in case we got to that point. But knock on wood, hopefully we don't
ever get there.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I agree.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So on that point though, about visitors verses
residents. With our ocean safety, Hapuna and Kua Bay we do have stats on
residents verses visitors in injuries. And I think that's something we keep you
know, so certain ones we do keep, because we know that when we're asking for
money from the state, we know that, hey these are visitors that are coming into
the island and getting hurt. And we need that support from the TAT (Transient
Accommodations Tax), or wherever it may be from.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Especially when they cut our TAT and
threaten to cut our funding for
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yes. So we do have some of those stats being
kept in certain areas that we feel that we need them to help the data for what
we're looking for.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Good. And then whose idea was it to do a
line item by item, by item, by item budget analysis for you guys?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So that's me. You know, I've been leading this
department for about six months now. And as Deputy Chief when Chief Rosario,
you know, before he left, I just saw that we're moving money around and it's not
properly budgeted. Like if I needed $150,000 for PPE(Personal Protective
Equipment) I should have a line item that says $150,000 for PPE and not$9,600
for PPE. And where do I get the $141,000 from. So that's something that has
been a goal we set. UnfortunatelyI'm just going to say it, our Accountant IV
has left us. And so we're recruiting for a new accountant.
And so I think it's a good thing, because we need to start fresh, we need to get
that budget in order, and we need to be able to manage our budget and pay our
bills. So, you know, that's a focus that I've always seen our finances as one of the
big areas that we have to improve. And it's hard to improve when you don't
know how much you're spending in what area. And so we have to do that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Good job. Looking through your budget,
you know, you—I don't know who, but you guys really shaved some of your
overtime. I mean really substantially across every department. I was impressed
actually. I mean given what we heard in 2019-2020, "This is our lowest number,
these are our lowest figures; we can't go any lower than this." But you brought
some—look at your first line item on your first page you took it, not your first
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one, sorry. But your fire protection salary and wages overtime, you dropped it by
$600,000. That's impressive.
And the next one, miscellaneous salary wages, fire protection. You dropped
$500,000 on that. I was very impressed by how much you're willing to cut. In
the end you guys came up almost balanced, you're plus a couple million dollars.
But I think you did that by really affectively addressing your overtime in a few
different departments to give yourselvesI mean plus what? From 2019-2020 to
what you're looking at 2021-2022 you're only increasing your budget by
$1.2 million. I'm impressed with what you guys did. Thank you, Chief.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The only place I saw increases were your, I
mean some heavy increases, looks like was the helicopter safety, is that right?
Ocean safety saw some increases but, helicopter services saw some pretty
substantial increases. This is the total. So you went about$300,000, what was
the reason for that?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: We had some major repairs that needed to happen
there. We replaced the turbine on one of our helicopters. And I think Chopper 2,
our air medical, had pretty heavy redo of a lot of parts in that chopper also. It's
old so there was a lot of parts that had to be replaced.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And then, thank you for touching on it
earlier, Ms. Kimball. Your number one priority coupled with Police Department
was the Kea`au Fire Department, correct? Or a joint facility.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And where are you at with that project?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So we still need to find land. If we can find the
land I think, you know, we can use any one of our latest plans whether it's Haihai
maybe cutting that back a little bit. But once they can find land, we can work
together with DPW (Department of Public Works) on the plans. But I think that's
the first step, is we got to know where it's going to be and then we can look at the
property and the design. And obviously the fire trucks, so we need to make sure
we can properly get in and out of there safely on to the main road.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. We discussed that.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yeah.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And I went around and briefly discussed
with DPW, with Police. Police is on board. I briefly discussed with Shipman,
they have a general plan for the Kea`au community as well. They actually set up
some land, although they want us to lease it long term. But I think the next
appropriate step then would be to actually kick it to Finance and Property
Management and make sure that they're looking for a piece of property and get us
a good deal on property. I mean the reasoning behind that though was interesting.
What's going on at the Fire Station in Kea`au right now?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So currently we lease that from Shipman and, you
know, the station is small. It's got roof leaks. They repaired it. They redid the
floor, covered the floor with new tiles because of the asbestosis in the old tiles.
But the style of the roof and the way I guess the additions were made, the
apparatus roof when it rains hard flows over onto the station roof and then water
flows into the office. And so it drips right over the computers and right into the
office where all the work happens. So DPW was looking at a new design of the
roof. So like a whole total redesign of the roof. And I don't support that. I feel
like we shouldn't be putting money into somebody else's building.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I was just about to ask you, why are paying
for improvements to a building we don't own?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yes. So I don't support that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We had to move guys out of there recently
too.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yes. For three months we moved them out so that
we could do that work. The repair of the roof worked a little bit, but it didn't work
100 percent. So there's less leaks, but there's still leaks.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So we still have a leaking roof?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yup.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And I mean your facility is right next to the
Police Department. I think I heard the same thing from them. Their roof is
leaking, and their files are being ruined via water damage.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And we lease all this from the Shipman
Group. And we have leaking roofs on a County facility.
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ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Yeah. And so we need to move that forward. I
mean Kea`au and that area is expanding and developing so call volume is big out
there. Even with the new ambulance at Station 18, we haven't seen it drop much
at all at Kea`au. You know, the call volume is there to support the personnel and
the need for the facility and future increase of personnel.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Puna has experienced a huge amount of
growth. So per capita we would need—is that an increase of personnel? I mean
Tim touched on that earlier. Is there a personnel increase that's needed or is it
just more the facility itself?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So anytime you're going to add—like so, you
know, out there we have a small brush truck, a fire truck, and ambulance. And so
if you're going to staff all that, obviously there needs to be more staffing. Now it
just depends on where we have the apparatus, yeah. We may add a tanker there,
we don't know. If we had a tanker there, then that automatically would increase
staffing or the need to keep staffing there. Sometimes the staff there will fly to
another station to cover for shortages. So it just depends on the apparatus as
assigned.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I think a good question for Deanna
then would be, is how they push that to Property Management. But she's not here
so I'll get her when she comes back.
Yeah, so again, your attention to detail was impressive during this budget,
because I've been through, this will be my third one. The last two years was quite
a different story, but this year I'm very impressed again. I did notice in the
beginning of the budget you have 60 positions that are vacant but budgeted. It
looks like they're recruits. But what's going on with the 60 positions?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: So those positions I think if that's the recruit, the
TP (Temporary/Permanent)positions, that's just positions that we have for
vacancies to hire so we can hire. So say like right now we're expectingI think
we have seven or eight that we know of that will be leaving this year. And so
we're working on the recruitment right now for firefighter recruit. But we can't
put them in the positions that ranked positions that are filled. So we use the TP
position temporary and then they go in there for their probationary period of one
year, and then after that one year they move into a permanent firefighter position.
And so that's where say, we had six Captains retire, in that period of time we need
to make sure that we promote six Drivers to Captain, and then Firefighters to
Drivers, so we have those six vacancies at the bottom to fill our recruits into.
And so that was a very challenging thing this past year because we we're down to
one position. And so we had to make sure that Battalion Chiefs promoted up,
Captains promoted up, Drivers promoted up, Paramedics were promoted up into
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the position so that we could fill at lowest level Firefighter from those temporary
positions. And that's what you're seeing there, I believe, is those temporary
positions.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Just checking. Thank you. And
then what was your strategy behind adjusting for OT (Overtime)? Did you just go
by a percentage base, or per station and what you've seen in the past, what was
that?
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: You know, I honestly cannot take credit for any of
that. I honestly feel that the staffing being where it was, that's just the fruits of
that of having adequate staffing. And then obviously I'm not sure exactly what
you're looking at with those numbers. But, you know, we're seeing a cost
savings because we're getting some funding from the CARES that is being paid
back to us for our charges that we used.
So someone had overtime might have been CARES funding, CARES overtime,
that we got funding back. So that maybe some of that. So there's kind of been a
combination I believe of staffing being there. And there also because of the
taskforce and the weekend work with some of our personnel, we've had some
overtime that's been paid back to us from CARES to help us balance our budget.
So Deanna would have the best answer for that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Deanna, actually get two questions
for you, if you can come up. Thank you, gentlemen, sorry. Yeah, don't go too
far.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: Hello.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Hello, again. Good afternoon this time. I
really feel like they did a really amazing job at cutting back on the overtime. You
know, we went through 2019-2020, I remember that we talked about overtime it
was a big discussion point actually.
MS. SAKO: Yup.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But in this one I mean they come back with
adjusting I mean almost 40 percent, 30 percent of their overtime and shaved it off.
And I've seen they made room for some of their regular S&Ws (Salary and
Wages) that they had as well. Is that just departmental, is that CARES funded or
what?
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MS. SAKO: A bunch of it is CARES funded when it comes down to the actuals.
So several departments when they were working for CARES, we were able to
charge that overtime to that specific GL (General Ledger) account number. So I
would have to run a different report to kind of show what the original overtime
was for each department.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: How many departments that does that
apply to?
MS. SAKO: Well definitely like Police, Fire, Public Works, Parks probably had a
little bit, you know, especially on that earlier days when we were doing a lot more
of the sanitization.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then follow up for the Kea`au
Fire/Police facility, is that being pushed to property to take a look at?
MS. SAKO: Property Management, yes, it has been told to try and find a sight. Is
that?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes.
MS. SAKO: And then we'll see if we have enough funding.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I did talk to Shipman briefly.
Again, they're looking at a lease. We currently lease property from them, but as
I've just learned, and I've heard before actually, we have leaking roofs at those
facilities. And we're leasing something and it's unusual to hear of a lease where
we're being requested to fix the building itself. Not a usual lease agreement.
MS. SAKO: Well we built the building. We're leasing the land. We're not
leasing the building.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: There it is. Okay. So our building is
falling apart on the Shipman land.
MS. SAKO: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Interesting. Okay. Yeah. And I think, you
know, giving just going to say this, given that new stop light I think that's
imperative that we get some people on the other side of that stop light to help in
an emergency because there has been too many times now when that is
gridlocked, and we're stuck on the back side of that stoplight.
So it'd be good to have this facility in many ways. But I'd love to see some
forward movement on this. We talked about it last year. Understand times are
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tight, but given population density in Puna, services that we offer, the response
time from Pahoa to upper Puna, and just a number of other challenges we face in
Puna. This is a great way to get a project moving that needs Fire Department and
Police Department. So thank you. Can you follow-up with me regarding Hamana
(Ventura) and our Property Management?
MS. SAKO: Yeah. I will talk to the Mayor. I mean definitely there's a lot of
priority projects.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But this one listed number one, by two
departments in underserved area that is clearly needing some help. So hope it
doesn't need too much coercion to see the good in this project. Okay. Thank
you, Deanna.
MS. SAKO: Um-hum.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, gentlemen. Thank you very much,
appreciate it. Any further questions by the Council, good? Okay. Thank you for
your time, appreciate it. And then I'm just going to call you, Chief, but you're
doing a wonderful job. Thank you.
ACTING CHIEF PERREIRA: Thank you. And I just wanted to bring up one last
thing. You know, we're thankful for the joint dispatch center that has been
approved that is moving forward for our Police and Fire Department dispatch.
You know, that's a big project and much needed project. So thank you guys for
your support and, you know, obviously the Mayor and the Finance Director on
that also. So thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Good time today, good job.
Do we want a quick recess? Okay, we're going to recess until, I'll give you five
minutes. So I'll see you back here at 3:50 p.m.
Recess: At 3:44 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 3:50 p.m.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Aloha, and welcome back. Rebecca, can
you hear us?
MS. VILLEGAS: Yup, I'm here.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We are going to do Office of Aging next.
And we have the Director here. Come on up, sir. Introduce yourself and you as
well please.
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(6) Office of Aging:
(Note: At this time, Executive on Aging Horace Farr and Administrative
Assistant Christina Raine came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
MR. FARR: Hi. I am Horace Farr. I'm the Executive on Aging for Hawaii
County Office of Aging.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
MR. FARR: And this is Christina Raine. She is our Accountant and HR(Human
Resource) person.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Awesome. Thank you for being here
today. I believe you submitted a presentation for us as well or did you not?
MR. FARR: No.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sorry, some did, some didn't. Okay, you
didn't. So why don't you briefly kind of bring us up to where you're at with your
budget, what you submitted this year and then we'll go to Council questions after
that.
MR. FARR: Okay. We exist because of the Old Americans Act of 1965. So we
are the designated area agency for Hawaii County. We are part of a 650 Triple A
network across the country. We belong to that network and our national mission
is as we are part of federal, state, and local agencies, is to provide services that
would help ensure older adults to live independently at home and in their
communities for as long as possible. And so that is our major mission. This past
year we've learned some lessons because of the COVID situation and how that
affected some of the way we deliver our services with contract.
We are heavily grant funded. Our County I think with salaries and wages and a
few things we've 17 percent of our budget is County; everything is State and
federal. We are guided by the State. So the State is the agency that can defund
us, if anything. But it is one of our most important purposes is to have good
relationships with the State because I think 56 percent of our funding comes
through the State. And so we work with the State very closely.
And we want to always thank the Council for the opportunity of the support that
you guys give us, you know, in the work that we do. The County has been always
very supportive. What you folks do cover allows us to put those service dollars
back into the community so we can leverage those dollars a lot more by the help
that you guys give us. And so we, again, appreciate all that you guys provide for
us and do for us.
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As we are an attached agency, and you don't see us in the Charter, but we are
attached to the Mayor's Office. And we are, like I said, the program service area
for Hawaii County and the designated Triple A. And we're happy that we are
tied with a government agency verses being with a private nonprofit. It gives us
more flexibility in the funding, because our funding from the federal and the State
as it comes down to us, is very restrictive. We're guided by certain principles. So
we can't just take our money and put it to anything it has guidelines that come
down with it. So we're responsible to meet that compliance that comes down
whether it's federal or State money's we are bound by guidelines that come down
and how we expend that money for the services that are mandated for us.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. Questions from the
Council? Ms. Kimball, go ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Actually I have one question that had to do with kupuna
transportation, which is a service that you guys' cover. And the reason I raise it is
because we have a contract, you know, to provide kupuna transportation. We also
got a big ask for our nonprofit grants in aid to support kupuna transportation. We
also put money towards the Mass Transit Agency. What are we doing wrong with
transportation for kupuna, where we have three different pools of money being
requested? And I'm still getting calls, I don't have enough services to get to my
doctor, to get to the store, whatever. I'm not trying to put you guys on the spot or
be accusatory towards you. I'm just trying to understand why we have three
different requests for the same functionality.
MR. FARR: Okay. Well for our funding which comes through ACL, American
Community Living, which comes from the federal and then it comes down
through the State. Those monies—so they're earmarked for transportation
through the Area agency. And some of it goes to transporting to the nutrition site
and then the other one is the regular transportation, which our guidelines is
point-to-point transportation. So those monies that come through us have to be
used in those areas and the criteria is for Title 3, three being monies is that they
have to be 60 plus. That's the regulations that come down for our services in that.
In the last year our transportation services has decreased because with the COVID
situation the State is requiring us especially with the mask and social distancing.
So where we could buy and we buy those services, so we don't provide the
services, but we buy the services, we contract out for the services. But the State
has guided us and said that, because you have to have social distancing in place,
where we would normally get may be eight to nine people in a van and transport
them, we now are lucky if we can four in there. So in order to transport the same
amount of people, it's twice the cost, right? Because you can only take four at a
time. You can't take the whole eight like we used to before. So our transportation
services has gone down.
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The request for some of those services have gone down but as people are feeling
more comfortable as vaccination have—we anticipate that our providers should
start coming back. I think we were this past year we were down almost 35
percent in availability or usage that people were not as much calling for the
service. And then also because we had to do some out of the box thinking on
trying to get meals out. So it heavily drew on our transportation providers, which
is the County. Same provider to shift resources to get the meals out delivered,
because we could not open the meal sites. Our meal sites were closed. So it was a
heavy draw on resources and so as much as the State would allow us, we would
reshuffle our resources and try to fill those gaps.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, thank you. I'm just going to try and sum up what I'm
hearing you tell me thumbs up or thumbs down, that basically for you folks you
have some solid constraints on how you can spend the money with respect to
transportation. And some of these other folks are filling in the gaps that you are
not able to do due to those constraints.
MR. FARR: Correct.
MS. KIMBALL: Alright great. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. I yield,
Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Aloha, great to see you folks,just a few
questions for you. You know, with COVID so much of our kupuna had to stay
home because they were vulnerable. And what really worried me was the lack of
social connectivity. So I know you guys were fabulous at helping to ensure that
our kupuna got critical meals they relied on. But,you know, over time, what are
ways in which you worked creatively to continue that social connection with our
kupuna? Whether it is making a weekly call to check in if they were okay or
getting keiki to create cards and mail them to them just to let them know that
community is thinking of them. Again, really curious what you guys have done to
ensure that we remain connected and socially support our kupuna.
MR. FARR: One of the contracts we have is an outreach contract because of the
COVID situation. So part of what we did was to have our provider follow-up and
call on them;just do a follow-up. From within our office from the ADRC (Aging
and Disability Resource Center) we would go down the list periodically and call
people,just to check on them. In everything that we mailed out of our office, we
would make sure we put information that they could call us. One of things, we
did get a grant from the State, and that was to help with the social connectivity to
try to get cell phones or whatever out to them. So we did get that grant, but the
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State had trouble getting it to us so we're under some time constraints right now
to get that project going.
But we have tried under our resources to still keep that connectivity with them. A
lot of it happens, for the programs that we provide for, a lot of it happens at the
nutrition sites, right? A lot of them go there more for the socialization than the
meal itself. And couple of sites, the guys told us, "You know what, we like is the
socialization more, not so much the meal. So you know what, you guys don't
need to bring meals to us. We'll just kind of wait it out." And so those are some
of the elements that we've been trying.
We've been trying to work with some of the nonprofits. Our ADRC works with
Vibrant Hawaii and some of those—Community First, we've tried to keep up
with the advanced health care directive. So we've made our facility available for
them. You know, we had to do a lot of thinking out of the box and some of that
has been drive-thru advanced health directives, right? Because we kept our
building pretty much closed, but we've had to provide ways to do that. So we
worked with them, we've worked with AARP a lot especially during this tax
season. Previous year when it all started, they had to shut down doing taxes. And
so our seniors couldn't get their taxes done. This year we did drive-thru taxes
again. We're working with AARP to allow them to use our space so they can do
processing. And then the seniors can come and drop off and their questions.
So we've been trying our best and we've been learning along the way, what
adjustments to make to try still get services out and still meet the requirements
that the State has on us. They kind of dictate, they give us the box, this is the size
of the box, and you can move anywhere in the box
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: But stay in the box.
MR. FARR: But stay in the box, right. So we've been trying different corners of
the box, so to speak.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks for being so creative and leveraging those strategic
partnerships. Just a couple more questions. Administrator, I remember once you
were before us you said that, you know, your office has a pulse on about ten
percent of the kupuna on island. So I was just wondering with COVID has that
list expanded, and what have you learned in terms of needs our kupuna need and
where we can fill in the gaps as a community?
MR. FARR: One thing we learned with those that we deal with, is that, especially
our population, they're a lot easier to work with. You know, when you explain
things to them, they're pretty much, "Okay, we'll stay home. You know, we
understand these things." So we've learned that they're much more amendable to
accepting what we share with them. But it has been a challenge with the COVID
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on how to adjust our services to reach out to them and to meet their needs. Most
of it has been, you know, social and as we've worked with thema lot of our
seniors are creative, so they enjoyed the vaccination thing. They liked the drive-
thru vaccination thing, so they would get four of them in a car, and schedule all
their appointments go one time, right. And at the same time they're getting their
social life.
So we've been guiding them. So we've been telling them, well if you guys want
to do that and you guys can keep the—own your own sign up for the drive-thru.
Then you guys can be all together right there. So it's kind of hard to in-capsulize
how much outside of our norm that we can step into. But we've tried, we've tried
many things this year and we've learned a lot of things. And some of it was hard
to meet, because you can't expend especially when the things just started. Family
members didn't want workers to come into their home. So even our frail and
vulnerable clients, though we had money and we could get the services to them.
But if they refuse the service, we can't get service.
And then we also had a capacity shortage, because people didn't want to come to
work. They were afraid. We even tried providing as much PPE as we could for
them. So we learned that until people kind of settled in it was hard to get services
out to them even though we had the ability. Then we had capacity issues. And
now it's kind of still hard to get workers to come back in so that we can again get
our services delivered. So it's a there's many factors in trying to get our service
out that come into play, and if the client says, "Not at this time,"no matter what
we do we cannot go in and provide that service until they're ready or the family
says so. I'm not sure if I answered your question.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: No, you did partially. But I want to back to the first part
where you talked about having a pulse on ten percent of the kupuna population.
Just again, curious about how much that list has expanded because of COVID.
MR. FARR: As far as the expansion, for our services we don't really normally
get the well seniors. The well seniors pretty much take care of themselves, and
they like to go to the Zumba class. I don't know if Zumba is still around yet, I not
too sure.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I know kupuna that Zumba, yeah.
MR. FARR: They like the recreation classes. And they're for the first 10 years if
they're a well senior they pretty much don't want to associate with our services.
Because our services start taking you when you need that more extra assistance.
So I would say that in all the years that I've been at Office of Aging, and this is
going to be my 31"year, and all of years previous to this I was the Information
System Analyst person, so I looked at numbers, it pretty much had stayed you
know, we get the numbers that's coming in and the amount that transitions out,
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we're pretty much touching each year between 4,000 and on a good year we
might get to 5,000. And that number hasn't changed over the years as they move
from one level to the next. And so the majority of our services are usually by the
time they get to 68 or so is where we start time. But in the meantime, you know,
we get so many that attrition every year. So I'm not sure if I answered your
question.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: No. That really helps and it actually kind of helps to
answer the final question I had, which was with our growing population of the
number of kupuna that are achieving that kupuna status, right, I was just curious
around the strategic plan of your office to scale up any of those programs to meet
ongoing and future needs.
MR. FARR: And we—our guide is, you know, in the planning function, right?
And that's a big part of our office is to do planning. And so every year we need
to look at where the numbers are going, and how numbers are coming in, what's
trending, and then we need to make sure that those federal and State dollars are
available, and how we're going to leverage them. So yes, as a planning office it is
our responsibility to you know, we're guided by the four-year Area Plan (Area
Plan on Aging). And so that is part of our requirement. Without that Area Plan
we do not exist legally, so that's very important. And so as a planning office we
need to not only watch the numbers on what we're servicing, but we need be out
there working with other groups and finding out what's impacting them and try to
work with.
It's good to work with community first, and some of these others that are dealing
with the younger, I call them younger seniors, the well seniors. Because it gives
us an idea that the people that are involved there will probably be same ones that
would be used to, and then when they will attrition, you know, when they move
up, they will be familiar with what services we have. So our goal is always to try
to anticipate that number and plan for that number. We try our best, but there's a
lot of variables that are impacting. And then again because our dollars are so
restrictive, you know, we can only work within that week. Our dollars are service
dollars. And with services dollars you can only do service, right. And that's the
restriction. So it becomes a challenge, but challenges are good.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: You find a way to make work. Thank you, Administrator.
Appreciate your time and details and the hard work of your office. Thank you.
Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Ms. David,
go ahead.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair. Administrator, thank you for being here today.
And I just basically have one question, and you mentioned that 17 percent of your
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funding comes from the county and the rest is State and feds. Are you being cut
by any means on your budget from the State and federal funds? To your
knowledge, have you been
MR. FARR: Yeah. So again, there's three more weeks till the Legislature.
MS. DAVID: Right.
MR. FARR: We were informed by the State that they wanted us to do a practice
run. Meaning do a ten percent—what happens if there was a 10 percent cut,
15 percent cut, and 20 percent cut. At the beginning they were not sure what kind
of cuts we're going to take. But we went through, and we did our runs and we
then planned, and having a good relationship with the State is a plus. So they
worked hard to try to, monies that were available, to try to get that to us. And
with that happening we then tried to do our planning. Our goal in our office was
to see where the cuts would—if we had that amount of cuts, where would it affect
us the most.
Our goal was to get to 2023, and we are required on the federal level to do a
maintenance of effort. So we are required to try and hold a level of services.
Anytime we go below 10 percent up or above then we have to file a variance and
why that happened. So we did our work, and if we took the 20 percent hit, we
would survive. So with the funding that we had, and Christina did a lot of hard
work, we planned out that for our maintenance of effort if everything crashed, we
would be okay till 2023. And we planned that, and we worked hard at it, and so
far we're okay. And at the end of this three weeks we find out what the
Legislature—if everything stays the same for us on our end then we'll start
planning 2024.
And so we tried to assure that whatever cuts came down, we were fortunate that
on the federal level some things came down through the State which helped us
out. But we took it upon ourselves to try to come up with a budget that would get
us all the way through 2023 if the funding stayed the same or even if it dropped.
Then we found out that during the COVID crisis, demand for services went down.
So that brought us down, which gave us a little more cushion, which then we had
opportunity to push back to the programs, right? You know, we can push the
money back to the programs. So that's what we did over the course of the
pandemic. Wherever I could hold the union rate higher, I held as long as possible.
Where we could increase through the contract, we did it. So our goal was to
monitor that and where we have that extra cushion, we would be pushing it back
to our providers so that they could help them.
MS. DAVID: Well thank you for that and for explaining that, because that would
be a concern if, you know, your department or your division would be further cut
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and stuff. So that's kind of reassuring that you can still provide your services.
And that's all I have. I yield. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. David. Rebecca?
MS. VILLEGAS: I'm doing okay, thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Rebecca. Ms. Kimball, go
ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. Ms. Kierkiewicz got me on to a line of thinking
that I want to expand upon a little bit more, which is this 10 percent that you're
reaching. And certainly there's going to be some folks that don't avail themselves
of your services. What I'm curious about, and I think maybe this is where she
was going, are there people we're missing? The people that we need to reach out
to, kupuna that could definitely use your services but are not aware?
MR. FARR: So that's why we have the outreach contract. Part of the outreach
contract is that they will go out and, for a lack of a better term, beat the bushes, so
to speak, right. And one of the incentives is they get a senior citizen I.D. card. So
we're asking our providers to be aware. We get referrals. The ADRC gets a lot
of referrals. And so as people are being referred then we follow up on them. But
we do have a specific contract that hopefully we try to get five to a thousand new
people every year, signed up and registered into our program. So we do set aside
that to try to get out there.
You know, our providers are pretty much out there in the communities, especially
because they're all over. And our providers are pretty well known, and they
pretty much know who they're picking up and everything. So we feel pretty good
that we try to get as much as possible. Of course we won't get them all, you
know, but we try as many as possible for those especially who are looking. And
then people who are making referrals, we will try to follow up on those
individuals.
MS. KIMBALL: Are the funds that you get from grants, are they typically per
capita based how many people you serve or are they for specific programs
regardless of the number of people that are served?
MR. FARR: It comes down to, and it's a portion by a funding formula. So the
federal funds come down to the State and then it's a portion to each County, each
Triple A by a funding formula. And then with the State dollars, the State has
pretty much chosen to use the same formula. There are some grants that come
down that are specific, like for Better Choices, Better Health. They are specific
for that element. Title III side for nutrition, those are specified for congregate.
And for HOME-D, we are only allowed to spend that money in that avenue and
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we're very restricted on how much we can transfer between them. So some of the
monies come down very specific. But again most of it comes down through a
funding formula that the State sets up.
MS. KIMBALL: Is that formula based on like census data?
MR. FARR: It's based on a number of elements. Living alone is one, greatest
financial need, population, rural versus urban. So, you know, Oahu is very
urban, right, and they have a large—and then most of the outer islands, we're
more rural. So I guess in all the years that I've been there I think there's been like
three times where we've worked on the funding formula. But it's a give and take
between the four counties and the State, because somewhere along the line
somebody's, you know, going to take a loss, right.
So one element for us, we felt living alone was very important for us because of
our size in rural. On Oahu they don't think living alone is that crucial because
they got a lot of people, right. And people might be in an apartment complex
where it may not be the same here. So right now the funding formula that we've
been working under has been, I guess, for the last at least ten years. But the State
is the one that determines when they'll go back, and they'll sit down and redo the
funding formula again.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, because I think what you were maybe trying to get at,
Council Member Kierkiewicz, is this real shift that we're seeing and their
population demographics. And there was a great graph in Civil Beat a couple
days ago that showed that shift over time and how our population is making that
shift towards the aging demographic. And we want to make sure we're caught
behind the eight ball in terms of providing, you know, the services that you folks
do with an underestimation of the need in the population. And I'll just add that I
think all of us want to support our seniors in our communities and if there's
outreach programs, you know, all of us have our networks either as Council folks
or in other organizations, and please utilize us as well in terms of getting your
messages out. So mahalo, thanks. I yield, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms. Lee Loy, go
ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Thanks, Horace, for being here. I was wondering,
you folks have the Committee on Aging, and that's a mandate, right, to ensure the
funding. Are you guys okay over there? I know that's not a budget question, but
it's all related and I need my colleagues to understand this.
MR. FARR: Yes. So we did get names, not quite enough to fill the quorum, but
we're working on that. And I think part of it was maybe, I, you know, with all the
gray hair on my head sometimes I assume too many things. But with a new
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administration, you know, I realized I needed to explain to them a little bit more
how important the Committee on Aging is, because it is specified in the Old
Americans Act that that committee, we must have in place to be in compliance.
So the way things are, the way the bylaws and everything, there all coterminous
with the Mayor. So when the Mayor leaves, everybody's gone. We don't have
any carryovers. So they have applied again, people have to apply again and then
they're vetted by the Mayor's Office. And so I think finally I was able to get that
message to Pomai and so she started working on it. Part of it is that the makeup
of the committee needs to be a representative of the island. So we're still kind of
working on that. But I think we have nine now, and so right after we finish with
budget here, I need to get them online, I need to get them trained, I need to get
them their binders, and explain to them what needs to be done so that we can
continue to be in compliance with our Area Plan and the State.
MS. LEE LOY: Great. And thank you for that. I think we forget, right, the
compliance pieces with the Older Americans Act. That's how you get all of the
funding. And so it would be sad if we just were in noncompliance because we
don't have that board in place. You know, I really didn't have any questions
around your budget. I just always appreciate what you folks do with, you know,
providing for our seniors. And, you know, as Council Member Kimball
mentioned, if there's anything we can do to help share your message or maybe
even try and help find people to sit on that Committee on Aging, you know,
please reach out to use. Please use us as a resource. Alright thank you, Chair. I
yield.
MR. FARR: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Any further
questions, comments, anything? Nope. Okay. Sorry, I'm thinking. So Area Plan
on Aging, Miscellaneous Contract Services, you went up pretty substantially, is
that due to, I mean it looks like grants coming in? You got it all broken down
there and detailed. But these are dedicated to different things. So delivery, meals,
transportation, each one has a dedicated amount and that's for the entire fiscal
year 2021-2022, correct?
MR. FARR: Yes. That's correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And so we can count on that funding. Is
there any other sources of funding you're able to pull from or you see that, you
know, coming down the line that you may be able to grab?
MR. FARR: Within the allowance of where we can shift funds, that's pretty
much where, you know, for the services that we're mandated to do. So we have
done pretty much the shifting that we can do. But like I said because we found
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that the demand wasn't as high, it gave us a little bit more wiggle room from what
we had anticipated. So I anticipate up until 2023 that we would not be coming to
the Council and saying, "Hey, we ran short of money and we're stuck." Like I
said, in three weeks when the Legislature closes, we will know for sure how
much, if it's a 20 percent cut or a 10 percent cut. The State's kind of saying it's
more of a conservative 10 percent cut. If that happens, we feel we're still in good
shape because we've planned to work with that. And so we're hoping that in
three weeks when we find out what it all comes down to, that we can come back
and say that we're good till 2024. And that's our goal.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And that's for the State grant side, correct?
MR. FARR: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: As far as your County budget, yeah, it
looks like you got a little bump from $584 from 2019-2020 to $723 for salary and
wages.
MR. FARR: On the County side I think, Christina can correct me, but I think that
just allots for the increases, raises.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. FARR: You know, that—
CHR.
hatCHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, we've seen that across the board.
MR. FARR: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So no new hires, no new staff?
MR. FARR: Not on the County side, no.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then it looks like you have
about a $5,000 decrease in your miscellaneous charges, Older Americans Month
Committee on Aging meals.
MS. RAINE: I think I can explain that. So the actual expenditures for last year
and some of that$12,000 was for
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wait, you've got to come a little bit closer
to your mic.
MS. RAINE: Sorry.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: They can't pick you up for the captioning
and all of that.
MS. RAINE: Okay. So part of that$12,000 for last year was some of your
contingency funds that ran through our office. So we don't obviously budget for
that, so that's why it's a little bit—what we actually budgeted was less than what
we spent last year.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, okay. And then the Area Plan on
Aging, I mean this, sorry just to repeat, this is grant funded, correct? But your
travel went up pretty substantially. Are you planning on doing a lot of travel or
are you going to be doing it by Zoom? I'm just asking because I've seen this in
multiple departments, usually decreasing in their travel budgets, but not
increasing.
MR. FARR: So for us (inaudible), and Christina can kind of correct me. But
when the State says we must attend a meeting or we must attend a conference,
they carve that money out for us and we go, right.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You have to go.
MR. FARR: We have to go because they're paying for it, right, it's part of the
grant and everything. So we bumped it up but then COVID hit, I mean, and we're
doing a lot of things now by Zoom. But if we don't use it, we just turn that
money back into services. And we don't anticipate until things kind of start
lifting, we don't anticipateI haven't even gone to a state meeting in Honolulu
for over a year. So we haven't traveled at all. We don't anticipate on even
attending any conferences and I don't think the State is indicating for us at this
time that we have to attend. And some of those conferences, you know, they can
be like two in a year and some of them are in Washington DC and stuff, or in
different areas. And so sometimes it's a higher cost, but we don't anticipate this
year doing any travel, even next year. It would be very minimal if anything.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So what do you do with the funds then?
Because you got$21,800
MR. FARR: It'll go back into services.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. FARR: We will shift it back into services.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Services?
MR. FARR: Whichever service, you know, we see the need in.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Or any of these other grant-funded services
that you do?
MR. FARR: Yeah. Mostly, if it's State dollars it would go back into State
programs.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so you can take it and shift it back in
wherever you see fit?
MR. FARR: Yeah. Right.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, good. Good. Okay. You have
one just following up from what I heard before. How do you get in touch with
our kupuna? I mean, how do you know where they are, or do you just wait for
them to contact you?
MR. FARR: No. Again, for us as an Area agency, we do not provide the direct
service. We're prohibited from providing the direct service. So we are
purchasing the services. But it's through our programs that we contract with, it is
through outreach, it is through mail-outs or working with the aging network.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: How do you know who to mail to?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Well, everybody gets registered. You
know, whoever needs to get services or wants to services must get registered into
our database. So we keep track of that. And so people are referring, Legal Aid is
referring, or our network is referring people to us, and as they get registered
that's part of the requirement, is that they get registered—and we're part of the
State mandated database, we're connected to that. So as people come in as they
get registered for services or even anything just to get a senior citizen ID card,
they get registered into the system. And that allows us to know where they are,
how many is in whose district, how many is in your district that are getting
services; and we begin to, with using the census and some of these other items,
we can kind of get an idea of where people are.
But we are trying always to promote services and getting people out and trying to
get them at health fairs, all of these. And then we try to have our people there that
are encouraging them to take advantage of the services if they need it.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, good. I think in many ways, I mean,
you can almost define a society by the way they take care of our kupuna. So the
best that we can do, that's what we should be doing and more. So thank you for
what you do. Appreciate it. Any follow up questions from the Council? Nope,
nope. Okay. Thank you for your time today. Well done.
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MR. FARR: Thank you folks very much. We appreciate all that you guys do and
your support.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Appreciate it. Thank you.
MR. FARR: Please don't hesitate to call us if you have any questions.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much.
MR. FARR: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, Council, do we want a brief recess
before we take Public Works? Brief recess? Okay, let's take a ten minute and
then we'll come back. So I'll see everybody back here at 4:41 p.m. We're in
recess.
Recess: At 4:31 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 4:42 p.m.
(7) Department of Public Works:
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, aloha. Welcome back. We are at
the end of our day for the Special Committee on Finance for the budget hearings.
The last department is the Department of Public Works. We have the Director
and his staff here as well. Want to come up and join us, sir? Good to see you.
Make yourself comfortable. And did you guys submit a PowerPoint presentation
as well?
(Note: At this time, Public Works Director Ikaika Rodenhurst came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. RODENHURST: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So let's get going on the
PowerPoint presentation. And then just a reminder for Council Members as we
move forward, especially given the next the couple days and being on time and
keeping out of here on time, let's try and keep our questions very pertinent to the
budget and not get too carried away in other things going on so we can stay in the
constraints of the data we have. Mr. Rodenhurst, when you are ready, go ahead.
MR. RODENHURST: Aloha. My name is Ikaika Rodenhurst, Director of Public
Works. Okay. Rebecca, can you hear me? Can, okay. Right on. So we are the
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Department of Public Works. As you know we have a various list of tasks that
we cover. One of our goals is the building, operating and maintaining of the
public infrastructure for success and growth of our County.
We have six divisions: the Administration Division, Engineering Division, Traffic
Division, Building Division, Highways Maintenance Division, and the
Automotive Division. We have four of our six chiefs here today. Two are
available via phone.
Our Engineering Division handles our design and investigation of regulatory, our
land surveying, our lands rights acquisitions, blueprint management, construction
regulatory inspection, and our bridges. Our Traffic Division handles our signs
and markings, our signals and our streetlights. Our Building Division handles our
building inspections, our building maintenance, our general services, the facilities
projects that we have here, as well as the highly publicized of highly anticipated
plan review process. Our Highway Maintenance covers the repair and
maintenance of our roads and the safety of our roads during emergencies as well
as the maintenance of our right of ways, including maintenance of landscaping
and maintenance of trees and drainage. Our Automotive covers a majority of the
fleet of our County, the repair and maintenance and the inspection of our vehicles.
And our administration covers our outreach, our contracts, and goes over our
budgets and goals for our various divisions.
(Note: At this time, Director Ikaika Rodenhurst came forward and
provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee.
For viewing of the presentation, see the DVD copy of the proceedings on
file in the Clerk's Office, or navigate to the Council's video archives from
the County's homepage online at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A hard copy of
the presentation is made a part of the record. See Comm. 103.8.)
MR. RODENHURST: So at this time, since you all have our budget in front of
you and we've all gone through it, I'll be more than happy to take questions. For
the most part, this is who we are, this is what we're doing, and I appreciate any
questions and I appreciate any critiques that may be here today. I thank you all
for your time. I know it's been a long day, but we're here to answer your
questions. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Director Rodenhurst. Who
wants to go first? No one's jumping at this one. I cannot, somebody give me
Tim Richards, go ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: I cannot jump, I'm too slow for that. Okay. Thanks, Director.
Couple of questions. You know, we've talked pretty much all day about funding
going forward and where you want to take the department and what we want to
get ahead of us. And obviously the theme throughout this whole thing is
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maintenance and repair, and I think we have, what, 800 miles of county road or
something like that. And I'm always thinking about—every time you say bridges,
I look at Council Woman Kimball, because of so many bridges in her district.
That being said, we have that partnering software with the State DOT
(Department of Transportation) and they were surveying the roads. It was my
impression that report was going to be done sometime late fall or early spring.
What is the status of that report?
MR. RODENHURST: So the Manli system actually takes the data and the
current data we're using is from the end of 2019, and that data is populated in
their system. We have access to it, and it gives us an idea of what the road
condition is. We have a visual representation as well, they have pictures and
video we can go through. It also lets us know the level and estimated cost. We're
confirming really if those estimated cost numbers are accurate for the current
fiscal year, because as we know prices, especially regarding paving, change with
the oil cost. But we are analyzing that and providing a system for our department
to use it for our various divisions including Traffic, Highways, Engineering, as
well as share that data with other departments. I know that some of that data is
vital for Planning and Finance. And so we are setting up the meeting with State
Highways to go over some training so that we all have the capabilities to go
through there and use that data to its fullest. But at its current state, it is not being
used to its fullest.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, so that report—because that's supposed to have, as I
understood, help us prioritize which roads should be attended to first, correct?
MR. RODENHURST: Correct.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And there's never enough funding to address all the
roads but going forward the theory was we'd hit the ones that needed it most and
then start chipping away at that. And this comes back to, again, the theme that
we've been talking about, is shovel-ready, ready to go, because if this funding
comes before us, and this is something to work with State DOT and (Ed) Sniffin;
again, he is the one that liked to have things ready to go. Where are we with
having roads ready to resurface or to undergo? I mean, are we ready to grab some
of the funding that we're pretty sure is going to be coming forth for us, are we
ready to use it?
MR. RODENHURST: Yes. We have three shovel-ready projects. I touched on
one, which is Waianuenue. That's our current one that we have federal obligation
acceptance from the State, waiting for the federal highways to provide their final
signature on and then we're good to go. The other two we have are Waikoloa
Road rehabilitation and Hina Lani Street rehabilitation. Those two are
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shovel-ready but they are, they're kind of quite a price and we definitely need
federal funds for those. So we have provided those already for some
consideration to Congressman Kahele's office, as well as having them ready for
any other federal funding. And taking a look, like I said, I just was aware that
raised funding put forth today. I going to take a look at that and see if they're
eligible for that.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And then the other roads, meaning, are we prioritizing?
How quickly will that list be prioritized? And I think we as a Council would be
curious, in our districts, what's the highest priority and then relative to the County
as a whole, how it stacks up? And it sounds like you are getting there but not
quite. So when can we except at least a first draft of that report?
MR. RODENHURST: Sorry,just to clarify, first draft of the report to the Manli
system, or first draft of our shovel-ready Federal Highways eligible projects?
MR. RICHARDS: You know me. Both.
MR. RODENHURST: Okay. Well, we have a list of our projects and design that
are classified as our STIP (State Transportation Improvement Projects)projects.
And we are taking a look at what we have. I would say for that schedule, I think
we can have something by June for that, as far as what our priority list is, if not
sooner.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. If you could get that to the Council, because again, for
us to advocate, and it'll probably be at the federal level—or even if we go through
the State, even when we go through the STIP funding, we need to know what
we're advocating for. So we need that coming forth. I also know there's some
infrastructure money proposed as it pertains to bridges. And I'm very sensitive to
Ms. Kimball's bridges and the fact that most of these bridges are beyond
retirement age. Where are we with evaluating the bridges?
MR. RODENHURST: So for evaluating the bridges we have about 129 bridges
that are on the federal list. We do have quite a lot in Hamakua and in Hilo.
Kohala has its fair share, ten. Kona has about eight. Ka`u has three. Puna has
four. And we're going through the list to get the prioritized list of that. We can
get something together around the same time. As far as bridges that are eligible
now, we still have some bridges that are eligible and currently in the FEMA
process for repairs. And we are pursuing those bridges that are in design such as
Kolekole Bridge repair. We have other bridges as Ka`ie`ie Stream Bridge and the
list goes on. We have quite a list of bridges. Some of these are smaller so they've
actually been grouped together in the FEMA request. So I can get a prioritized
list at the same time as we get our roads, in June.
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MR. RICHARDS: And the reason I ask for that is that there may be some input
that we as Council Members can give you meaning, I don't know, historical
knowledge or we know something that may bump something up or something
down depending on what's going on. So I would ask that coming forward. I'm
going to stop now and turn it over to you, Chair, and let my other Council
Members who I'm sure have a few other questions. So thanks, Chair. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Kimball, go
ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Hi. How are you doing, Director? I'm going to just dovetail
right off of where Council Member Richards started us in terms of prioritization
of projects,particularly roads and bridges, and would like to understand what
factors you guys are taking into account as far as prioritization for both of those
types of projects.
MR. RODENHURST: Well I think the biggest factor we have is the use of the
bridge. We've had to shut down a couple bridges. Recently, we had to shut down
a couple bridges. Recently, we had to shut down Makea Bridge. Kahakini Bridge
was recent, you know, in a fair time recently shut down as well. And that's
something that's based off the critical findings of those bridges. So I would say
that our priorities are one, to make sure that those bridges that are near critical
findings, they be handled. But also the bridges that have been shut down and the
bridges that are—some of the community members only access outside of their
house. We need to make sure that our public has access. And so we're there to
we're going to be looking through this list and seeing what bridges have limited
access where there are no alternatives.
That being said, some of the bridges we talked about like Kolekole Bridge rehab
and Kahakini and some of those bridges in the Kolekole-Hakalau area, we're
aware that the State is coming up with bridge projects and because of that, in case
of an emergency or some kind of catastrophic incident, they're going to need to
have alternative routes.
So we want to make sure that those are available in those areas as well. So I think
that those are our top priorities when addressing the bridges. And then, you
know, when we're dealing with federal funds making sure that the bridges that
have access to FEMA funds, that have access to any kind of federal funds to
leverage, we use those bridges to stretch our dollar because bridges don't come
cheap, and they are important. And when they fail, they fail. A failed road is still
traversable. There are a lot of roads that are questionable on and off County
property. But as far as bridges, you can't have a bridge that's failing and still use
it. That's not acceptable.
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MS. KIMBALL: Can we talk a little bit about prioritization of roadways and how
that happens?
MR. RODENHURST: Yes.
MS. KIMBALL: What are the criteria?
MR. RODENHURST: So again, it's very similar. You know, making sure that
we leverage our federal funds where we can, to stretch our dollar. Like I said, the
Manli system, we're going to be implementing that data to adjust where our roads
are needed most. Where the repairs are needed most, I'm sorry. That's going to
be vital. I know when I talked to Neil Azevedo, kind of on board. And I asked
him, "How do we check some of our road conditions?" Some of it was based off
of what our Highways crews see on a daily basis. And that's not an accurate way
to determine the quality of our roads. And no slight to him, they do a really good
job. They work hard. But in my experience as an engineer, I've walked roads to
determine the level of deterioration and I've seen how that goes. It really depends
on the weather; it depends on a lot of things. And with this Manli system and
their ability to identify the status of the road, it's a vital tool.
And one thing I want to make clear is that the tools that are Manli and EnerGov,
it's not a miracle solution to our problem. It's just a tool and that's what it is.
And I think we need to make sure we're using our tools properly and to their
fullest extent. So using that Manli system is really going to help us prioritize and
provide an accurate plan on how we get our roads paved in the County.
MS. KIMBALL: So can you delve into whatever algorithm are in the Manli
system that it uses to prioritize? This is my reasoning for asking this you know,
I'm sure this is true in everybody's district, but it's certainly true in my district.
There's various areas that need to get paved, repaved, or repaired. It's difficult to
explain to a community, "We can't do yours now," if I don't understand the
criteria that you folks are using to choose which project is next. And so that's
why I'd like very clear guidance in terms of how prioritization happens whether
it's through Manli or if it's through your administrative process. So can you
elaborate on Manli's mechanisms?
MR. RODENHURST: Yeah. So Manli has identified—again this this through
the 2019 data. It identifies what level of repairs are needed, whether it be a severe
or minor repaving and those are you know, for severe if I'm not mistaken—so
they have prescribed methods on there for the level of the road where it can be a
crack-seal, slurry-seal. It has minor and severe which is, if I'm not mistaken, a
two-inch mill and fill paving, and a four-inch mill and fill paving. And I also
have beyond that, which will be an entire reconstruction. They have that
available through of data. And so we can use that to identify and prioritize where
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our roads are at and how we can best handle them and use techniques available
and feasible to extend the life of our roads.
MS. KIMBALL: So what I'm hearing is that it's primarily mechanical from the
standpoint of the condition that the road is currently in. Are there factors such as
what you talked about at other alternative accesses, protection of health and
safety, people being isolated, level of traffic, number of businesses that are on
that I mean these are the social criteria that I think Mr. Richards was indicating
that we as Council people can provide the knowledge of our areas, is any of that
included in the decision-making process?
MR. RODENHURST: Yes, it is. After we identify the level of the road and we
get our baseline priorities based off of that, we would have to identify in each
district how best to make our dollar go and how best to serve the people of that
district. So yes, I believe that's something that would be beneficial to discuss
with each Council Member and their district is, you know, give an idea of where
we're going and hear your input on that.
MS. KIMBALL: So do you allot a certain amount per district? Is that how it's
done, or do you take an island-wide view?
MR. RODENHURST: So with your Highways Maintenance Program there is a
certain amount per district based off of that. It's in our program budget. And
then as far as our engineering budget, that's something that we typically leverage
our federal funds with in our STIP projects and other funding qualified.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. Thank you for those answers. I want to understand a
little bit more about inventory as a whole of bridges, road, coverts, facilities, all
that. I've asked for some of that and I've also looked at what's available either
through County resources or State resources, particularly the bridge files through
the Office of Planning, which just on preliminary cursory look for District 1, is
missing in quite a number of bridges in identifying bridges that don't actually
exist. So I'm a little curious about the quality of that particular dataset. What
have you guys been working on as far as building an inventory and an assessment
of the quality of the main pieces of infrastructure that we're responsible for as a
County?
MR. RODENHURST: I'm sorry I need to clarify. When you're asking that
you're talking about the bridges still or about—
MS.
boutMS. KIMBALL: I'm talking about all inventory across bridges, roads, coverts,
you know, basically everything that you're responsible for. What are you doing
as far as compiling an inventory that's accurate?
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MR. RODENHURST: So in our Engineering Division we do have a list of our
bridges and we have a list of the current inspections and the statuses and whether
they're in design and whether they're eligible for certain types of funds. I believe
you requested that and it's something that if I'm not mistaken—did we get that to
you?
MS. KIMBALL: No, you did not.
MR. RODENHURST: I will follow up on that.
MS. KIMBALL: Which is why I'm asking you.
MR. RODENHURST: I appreciate that. I will get that to you by the end of the
week, our current status on that bridges. But yes, as far as our drainages and our
roads, we do have a list of all the roads that are maintained within the County.
We also have through the GIS mapping and our other technologies, we have a list
of where those are, how those are in relation to our County right of ways and the
maintenance of those. You know, one of the things that we discovered, and this is
again of no fault to the Highways Maintenance Division, but we found in the past
that there have been a lack of documentation that's really prevented us from
getting some of the federal funds for some of these bridges. And so, we're
working with Neil in the Highways Division to address that and make sure that
we provide that documentation, and we get that up and ready so in the event of an
emergency or something, we have documentation to get eligible for all those
funds.
MS. KIMBALL: I'm glad you brought that up because that's pretty critical.
Even if we're not doing active work to maintain thoseMakea Bridge is an
example. There was clearly recent work done on that, but I know that we were
rejected the first application for federal funds because there was no record of that
maintenance. And so I'm glad to see that that's a focus of the department.
I had a chance to go out with Neil and inspect some roadways and bridge areas
using the iPad GIS mapping system which, you know, I was all gaga about of
course. Is that integrated with Manli; is that part of the same platform?
MR. RODENHURST: No. The GIS isn't currently integrated with Manli.
That's something that I wanted to bring up to State DOT and see when we
coordinate with them for training for the other divisions and departments that are
going to use the Manli, if that's something we can pursue coordination with in the
future or something we can do at the County independent of that.
MS. KIMBALL: I see this as being a really powerful tool. It was really
impressive how Neil was able to use it, capture a picture of what was going on,
identify what work needed to be there, and I think it's worth the investment of
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time to make sure we have all accessible data in that. And I know Asia was
primarily responsible for setting up where we are now, which is kudos to her. But
I'm just encouraging you to add any additional relevant data and of course some
of us would love to be able to have access to that as well at some point. I'm going
to just one other temporary bridges and where are we on that?
MR. RODENHURST: So I was just discussing this with Keoni about temporary
bridges. We have something in place. We are looking at getting an idea of a file
number, how much it's going to cost us to acquire a bridge and get that going
especially for Makea because that is their only access for the County to their
homes. So I don't have a file number today, but we're getting very close to that
and I'll definitely keep you posted on where that is.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, thank you. I actually wanted to pose a question to
Deanna on the temporary bridges. Just a concern about funding for something
that is considered temporary and if there's any issues that we as a Council need to
resolve,just because of the terminology and the types of funds that could be put
towards something that's called temporary, which will actually probably end up
not being permanent necessarily in location but permanent in terms of a piece of
inventory we have use of.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna S. Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: So basically any kind of equipment, which this might end up being
classified at, I would have to dig into it a little bit more, we cannot use bond funds
for that type of thing. So it needs to be a permanent-type structure, you know, not
something movable or something considered equipment. So that would be my
best advice at the moment.
MS. KIMBALL: Alright. Thank you for that clarification. Appreciate it. And I
will yield, Chair, as the timer has gone off. Thanks.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms. Lee Loy, go
ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Director, for being here. I'm not
going to elaborate on it. But the bottom line is this body would like to see a needs
assessment of our roads, of our bridges, of our assets, whether it's a building, a
Quonset hut. Whatever DPW is in charge of, we need to see a needs assessment.
You know, along those lines what we're asking for is a metrics. How is that
business decision being made? Because the road might be in bad shape, but if
it's not meeting any kind of carrying capacity, why would we focus funding
there? So I'm just going to leave it right there. That would go a long way for us.
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So that being said I'm looking at the budget in Engineering, you know, because
we have $1.5 million and I'm assuming that's where our needs assessment would
come out of from our engineers in that division who's tasked with evaluating
some of that. And what I'm homing in on is some of the regulatory review as far
as applications reviewed and plans reviewed. And that's in your program budget
as program measures. I'm not sure what page it is on for you, but it's on page 277
for us. What I'm a little, maybe, misunderstanding is the way it's folded out in
that table—and maybe Haku, you can help us too. We have actuals as far as
numbers, but under regulatory review we have percentage. So is that 90 percent
of the time or is that 90 actual applications that have been reviewed by the
deadline?
MR. RODENHURST: It is percentage.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay. And see, this is where it gets wonky, right. Because we
have numbers as far as projects go and then we go to 90. And so, you know,
we're looking for some hard information so we can make some good decisions.
Further down we go into design and investigation with review, survey,
construction drawings, subdivision applications, and so I'm trying to understand
the efficacy and the timing of review because we keep hearing how long things
are taking for review. And so when you look above, the representation is those
things are done 90 percent of the time on time, and it's been the experience from
the public that it's not. And then we go down to these are the totals that we're
reviewing. And so by my math we're about 500 various application there. Is that
an accurate assessment?
MR. RODENHURST: I'm going to have to get back to you on whether that's an
accurate statement. But I promise you, I'll get an update on that.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. Thank you, Director. I think what we're looking for is
just a consistent measure, because then I reflect that back to building, who's done
the same thing and they've done it differently. So it's really hard to assess your
six different divisions because everybody is presenting the information
differently. And so it's challenging to help your department and provide the
funding that we need, or you guys need, when the information to us is getting
presented scattered.
I had some questions around how that compares, how your plan review as far as
survey, construction,permits, apply to the EnerGov system. Earlier today we had
Director Kern and from what I can see he's tallied the number of applications as
far as regulatory permits that he provides. And my total is about 150 or
depending, whether it stays in-house ministerially with Planning Department, or
just overall. So his overall totals is about 350. But you guys say in your program
objectives that you folks provide review of various regulatory permits. And that's
under the Engineering Division. And so something our nonprofit grant-in-aid
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talked about was this cross collaboration and how we can amplify dollars, right.
And so I'm trying to find, which I think you guys do well, is synergies between
Planning Department and your Engineering Division and get an accurate
assessment of the amount of work or plans that are being reviewed. I'm going to
yield because there's my time and see if my other colleagues have more
questions.
MR. RODENHURST: Can I respond?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, go ahead.
MR. RODENHURST: You know, I appreciate your input on that. And I think
you're right, we do need to make sure that we're consistent across how we present
our information and, you know, we're improving our communication to make
sure that's the case. So I appreciate your comments and we'll take that to heart
for sure.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Director. Ms. Villegas, do you
have anything you want to ask? Sorry, you're on Zoom so I keep forgetting about
you. I'm sorry.
MS. VILLEGAS: No, no. You're not forgetting. I could holler if I needed to.
Thank you. Yes, actually I do have a couple of questions.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Go ahead, Ms. Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. Okay, let me dig myself out from under this, all of
these books. I'll go ahead and start with—first off, I want to say, huge mahalo to
Neil Azevedo and his team and the Highways Division and the repaving that
they've done at Lunapule Road. The people in Kona that live on that road and
utilize that byway are extremely grateful to have that paved after years of waiting.
I had a question about and wondered if it was included in here. In one of my
recent conversations with the Highways Department we were talking about"No
Parking" signs on Alii Drive and one of the topics that came up was a project
plan to do a parking plan essentially for the makai side of Alii Drive. And I
wondered where that was included here in this current budget. I see Aaron now.
You're muted, Aaron.
(Note: At this time, Traffic Division Chief Aaron Takaba came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MR. TAKABA: Ikaika, did you want me to provide some feedback for you?
MR. RODENHURST: Yes,please. Sorry about that.
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MR. TAKABA: Sorry, Rebecca, it's not in the budget but basically we need to
do code amendment to address yup, you're correct, the makai side of Alii Drive
to revise the no parking areas along the road. So basically it was something we
were going to do just within our operating budget. So it's not specifically
earmarked in this current budget that we were talking about.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, great. So I'll follow up with you on that and any code
amendments.
MR. TAKABA: Yeah.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, thank you for clarifying. I appreciate that. Great.
Second question is, Mr. Rodenhurst, in looking through this budget—and I
apologize for my squeakiness here, is it fair to assume that listed under Flood
Control, when it says, "OCE-Agricultural Supplies for Vegetation Control," is
that the herbicides used for spraying on the side of the highways?
MR. RODENHURST: Hold on, let me take a look.
MS. VILLEGAS: It's under Flood Control, OCE. Page 99, in the black binder.
MR. RODENHURST: I'll have to double check on that. But I would at this time
I believe that is where we would house our herbicides.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. So that's under Flood Control. Then my second
question relates to, under Engineering, OCE. I see albizia; unsafe for albizia
Hazard Mitigation and Roadway Drainage Program. And the Roadway Drainage
Program has a budget line item of$60,900. Can you explain what that line item
applies to?
MR. RODENHURST: Yes. The Albizia Program was started some years back
and it is an opportunity, it is a vehicle for us to remove unsafe albizias that are
posing a hazard to the community. It is a way for the public to request for our
office and sometimes we issue letters to residents that have unsafe flora,
specifically albizias, and it gives an opportunity for us to address that. As we all
know in the past in some of the storms we've experienced, albizias have been a
hazard to our community. And this is to address that hazard. Is there anything
you need me to go into deeper on that one?
MS. VILLEGAS: Well I understand that—because this seems to say Engineering
Division and it implied Miscellaneous Contracts. So these would be contracts
associated with albizia, for line items one and two, but then the roadway drainage
program, can you explain what that is? Is that contracted to somebody? And the
purpose of my questions is trying to identify where, if this other line item under
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flooding is the only line item where—and just so you understand, in a prior time
I've been trying to get answers and numbers to where the specific amounts
resided that where the money is spent on herbicides for roadside spraying ended
up being housed. And so is this where—what is roadway drainage program?
MR. RODENHURST: I'll let Keone Thompson answer that question.
(Note: At this time, Engineering Division Chief Alan Keone Thompson
came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. THOMPSON: Okay, so no. This has nothing to do with herbicides. So if
there's any drainage issues that we see that needs to be addressed and then we use
this money to address that. So Miscellaneous Contracts. So if there's like a
drywell that we have to put in someplace or we have to fix a ditch somewhere, we
need to do it. And this is for where we'd hire a consultant or contract to just
address this issues. That's what the drainage contract would be, yes.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Okay, thank you. Is there—and I've tried to look line
item by line item, am I missing another one where it would be listed as supplies of
some kind of agricultural or weed maintenance supplies.
MR. RODENHURST: It wouldn't be under Engineering. That would be under
Highway Maintenance because Engineering doesn't do herbicide.
MS. VILLEGAS: If you want to just provide me with the GL (General Ledger)
number, I'd be happy to look it up after. I just didn't see it here.
MR. RODENHURST: Deanna will help me with this real quick.
MS. VILLEGAS: No worries.
MS. SAKO: So basically, it's in ag supplies as far as I know in pretty much all
the different divisions. So even in Highway Fund,under Highway Divisions,
whether it's Hilo or Kona or the various divisions, it's under that, 216
Agricultural Supplies.
MS. VILLEGAS: That's under the Highway Fund separately, not listed under
DPW?
MS. SAKO: Right. I mean, DPW has funding in General Fund and Highway
Fund.
MS. VILLEGAS: Gotcha. Okay, that's what I was missing. Thank you for
clarifying for me.
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MS. SAKO: No problem.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, that takes care of those two. Another one is, my
question, Mr. Rodenhurst, is if you were able to include the repaving of the Walua
Road Park trail in this budget. I know that Parks and Rec has talked to you about
this a couple of times and it's something necessary for—I just wondered if I
would be able to find that in this line item.
MR. RODENHURST: It's not directly put out into this budget. But I'd be more
than happy to work with Parks and Rec and yourself and discuss where that can
fit and see what we can do.
MS. VILLEGAS: That would be awesome. We just need a small portion of one
of the only walking paths we have on the west side, repaved where there's been
damage done. I'll go ahead and let my colleagues, in lieu of my weird voice, ask
other questions about EnerGov because much of that heavy lift seem to have been
implied to be landing on your shoulders as we head into that interesting season.
My last question as I see here in our budget relates to a Deputy Director position.
I am heartbroken to no longer have Merrick Nishimoto serving as our Deputy
Director representing here on the west side. And I'm wondering at the timeframe
of his replacement is that will affect your budget line items moving forward in the
next year.
MR. RODENHURST: Correct. That will be affecting our budget and I am
currently taking applications for the position. And I don't have an exact timeline
on how that is pending applications.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Thank you. And that's it for now. Thank you.
MR. RODENHURST: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Ms. David, go
ahead.
MS. DAVID: Thank you. Hi. Welcome, Director Rodenhurst. I just have one
question. I'm trying to find it in this list but—guardrail maintenance. Where
would that be?
MR. RODENHURST: That would fall under Highway Maintenance.
MS. DAVID: Highway Maintenance.
MR. RODENHURST: Yup.
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MS. DAVID: Okay. So how is that prioritized actually on either installation or
repair?
MR. RODENHURST: So we are in the process of standardizing how we
prioritize our guardrail system. So at this point I don't have a direct way to, well I
don't have a system to provide for you on that right now.
MS. DAVID: Okay.
MR. RODENHURST: But I have talked with Chief Neil Azevedo on that, and
we are, you know, I told him that we will be maintaining our guardrails as needed.
MS. DAVID: Okay.
MR. RODENHURST: And so we will be addressing that,providing a system
how to address it.
MS. DAVID: Yeah, I would appreciate it. There's, especially in my district I
know Ms. Kimball's district is bridge related, and I think my district basically has
a lot of areas where the roadways are very dangerous. There's curves and
drop-offs with hardly any easement area and that sort of thing. So there's quite a
few requests for how do we go about having guardrails installed and stuff. And if
you could get me that breakdown on how do we prioritize, because some of these
requests do fall under the public safety aspect. And especially when our roads are
either where a guardrail is needed to prevent cars if they go off the road, from
going into someone's house. And then there's liability issues and stuff like that.
So I'm very curious how we can get on that list and how you prioritize that. So if
you could get it to me, I'd appreciate it.
MR. RODENHURST: If I may respond to that. If we're talking about guardrail
maintenance, it's housed under Highway Maintenance. If we're talking about
guardrail installation
MS. DAVID: Yes.
MR. RODENHURST: on a road that's going to fall under our Engineering
Division, because a lot of times we're going to need to make sure that there's
enough land that'll slope behind that for the guardrail to be placed. So that's
going to take a little bit more work than the replacement of a guardrail.
MS. DAVID: Okay.
MR. RODENHURST: So for new guardrails we'll need to work with
Engineering Division on that.
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MS. DAVID: Okay. And there's already a method or a process to request
someone to go out and access or how does that work? And how much funding
do you have in that? Because it's an island-wide issue, right.
MR. THOMPSON: Currently, it's based on complaint requests and then we go
out to investigate. But currently we don't have a budget for per se to—we just
have to request for money for whatever guardrails we have to install at this point.
There's no set program for it right now for Engineering.
MS. DAVID: Right. So Engineering has no funds for installation of guardrails
right now?
MR. THOMPSON: Well we were just recently tasked with taking the lead on the
new installations for around the island, investigating these additional places where
there are inadequate guardrails and stuff. Yes.
MS. DAVID: But at this point if I would give you or refer some requests for
inspections, basically you guys could just go out there and inspect but there would
be no funds to actually do the project?
MR. RODENHURST: If I may?
MS. DAVID: Sure.
MR. RODENHURST: We don't have a direct funding stream for guardrails
specifically. It's tied in with our other regulatory work and our other work with
our roadways. So as far as a system established, where are we going to put a
guardrail, there's no standardized process for that at this moment. We are
working on that. That's something we are doing. But like Keone said, it's really
based off of complaints and our investigation on what the current status of the
road is. And we're working together with our Traffic Division to identify what
the traffic history is in the area and making sure that we provide the adequate
guardrail that's needed there. So we will be providing something when we have it
available. It's just not ready at this time.
MS. DAVID: Okay. So in the meantime, I would just email you the requests and
complaints, the Engineering Department?
MR. RODENHURST: You can put in a complaint to the general DPW system,
and we will redirect it to the Engineering Division.
MS. DAVID: Perfect. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. I
yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. David. Mr. Inaba.
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MR. INABA: Aloha, Director Rodenhurst. I just wanted to follow up on some of
the comments made by my colleagues regarding prioritization of these projects
island-wide because we know from the bridges of Hamakua to the roads of Kona,
you have quite a lot under your purview. And I wanted to mahalo again, Chief
Azevedo, provides updates on the paving projects that are happening in Kona.
Lunapule for as long as I can remember was, I would call it, rattling. It was a
rattling experience driving down that road.
And I've gotten emails consistently about Hina Lani, so I'm glad you mentioned
that earlier. But when we can get those prioritized lists, at least we can know and
advocate or explain to our constituents what's going on. Because it's funny but
it's not funny, there's saying that the County is letting Hina Lani go back to
gravel and, you know, for the not many roads we have in Kona those roads are
heavily used. There's about a thousand ways to get where you're going here in
Hilo but just a few in Kona. So if we can get that information, it would be helpful
especially in understanding how the finances of your department are working. So
I'll leave it at that, no need to respond. Thank you. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thanks, Chair. Just a quick question, statement. When we
took office four years ago, they said the repaving cycle for the County roads was
about once every 70 years. Half-way through, so about two years ago, we've
improved that and cut that in half. So it's only once every 35 years. And I know
it relies a lot on funding. When you get the other information, the priority like
that, can you give us an idea of what the repaving cycle? Because I know it's
related to funding.
And coming back to what Mr. Chung said, what's the direction and what more
funding do we need to improve the roads? So Mr. Holeka does not get more
rattled, let's say that. Thanks, Chair. I yield.
MR. RODENHURST: If I can respond real quick? You know, I agree, we need
to make sure that we provide that criteria and what we're doing. And like I
mentioned earlier with the Manli system and some of the different methods, you
know, we need to make sure that we're using cost-effective methods to extend the
life of our roads where it's necessary. We don't have enough money to address
every single road in our County within a year, and I'm not going to stand up here
and tell you we will because that would be a blatant lie. But we are doing what
we can within our budget to address our roads as needed, and we want to provide
you a logical and a clear and concise method of how we do our business here,
because it's what's right. So I look forward to getting that to you and any
comments or any input on that I'm more than willing to take from any of the
Council Members. Thank you.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, sir. Okay, Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Aloha, Director. Great to see you. And, you
know, you can take off your mask if that's a little bit easier. Okay, great. First, I
want to just mahalo you. Every time that I've reached out to your department
you've been really responsive with providing me with the information that I
needed. And I know my district is incredibly grateful for the work that you and
your team are doing to support lava recovery. I appreciate the decisions that have
been made, the very ambitious milestones and goals that you've set out for that,
and just making the business decision. You know, if things have to be contracted
out in order to meet those deadlines, thank you for making that happen so we
don't have to have community waiting any longer for roads to get back home and
to farm. So thank you. I just wanted to mahalo you for that.
And, you know, I'm not going to beat a dead horse here. You know, this body for
a number of years has just been given lip service, right, about we have the data,
but it hasn't been shared in terms of conditions of roads and bridges and other
assets. So once that information is available, please share it with us and do share
the methodology that you are using so that we can share with our constituents
how those decisions are being made. And I do urge you to do everything in your
power to get projects shovel ready. We've got that federal money coming and we
want to make sure that we're ready to go.
A few questions I have for you very complex department that you are leading.
And so you don't just have a peek behind the curtain anymore, right? You're
behind the curtain. And so I'm just wondering walking in, what are some of the
deficiencies that you observed and what are your plans to address them?
MR. RODENHURST: Yes. Well first off, and this may sound like a joke but it's
not, our roof. I walked in there and our roof was in shambles, and it currently is.
And I've currently heard from various departments of issues with their roofs, and
not only in Aupuni, but in our aging buildings, in our fire buildings, in our
facilities that house the people that work for the County, not just in my
department, but within the other departments of the County. And I find that
completely unacceptable. I mean, how can we expect our fellow County
employees to serve the County when they're battling the elements inside a
building? So, you know,prioritizing our building R and M (Repair and
Maintenance) and our building infrastructure, or our building design list and
making sure that we're holding our Building Division accountable for keeping
that list moving. That's one of my priorities.
Another thing that I found is there are a lot of hard-working people at DPW, and
they don't get the credit they deserve. All these chiefs behind me, they work very
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hard. I appreciate every single one of them, Haku, David, even (Aaron) Takaba,
Randy, Keone, Neil, and Aaron. Sorry about that, Aaron. I said Takaba already?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: You did. It's been a long day.
MR. RODENHURST: It has been a long day. But yeah, like I said, we have a lot
of employees, and not just at Aupuni but also at West Hawaii, and not just there,
but also at the various baseyards and the General Services building. We have a
lot of people servicing not just our department but other departments in the
County. And so they deserve all the credit for all the good that goes on at DPW.
And I want to make sure that they know that and that they understand that they
have a purpose and that they're contributing. And I think that's where that
communication comes through, communicating to the public what we're doing,
but also communicating to our department what our department is doing for the
County. So that's a big thing for us, is the communication.
And then I touched on it earlier but standardizing our operations on how we do
things so there is no confusion. You know, I know we had a lot of talk about
EnerGov and our permitting process. And, you know, one of the things that we
implemented is requiring our reviewers indicate specifically what section they're
talking about when they provide comments on rejections so that there's no
confusion or assumption that it's a preferential treatment or it's a bad day or a
long day for a plan reviewer. But it is something that's required by our code and
the various codes that we adhere to. And that again it falls back on
communication. I mean, I can't say it enough, communication is key and making
sure we're consistent on that. And it's no easy task, you know, we all know how
the game of coconut wireless is played, and we have a very diverse department, so
we need to make sure we are communicating well within our department as well
as into the other departments, as well as to the public.
So those two things, standardizing our operations and communicating are really
our biggest goals and it's easier said than done. Is there anything else on that that
you'd like me to clarify at this time or go into in depth?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: You know, the standards of operations I appreciate you
bringing that up. You know, a few of my colleagues elaborated on our County
leaving money on the table because we didn't have data or information. So just
curious if you could lean into that a little bit more. How are we ensuring that we
have the information that we need so that if federal money does come available,
we qualify because we have the data and maintenance schedules and what not to
approve that? How can we better support of divisions to make sure that happens?
MR. RODENHURST: One of the things that we're going is we're supporting our
improvements to technology and using our electronic data. I know earlier today
we talked about issues with you brought up issues with our server and making
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sure that we house our data. You know, that was unfortunate what happened with
our server, but for the most the divisions were able to recover. They're still in the
recovery process.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: What did you lose?
MR. RODENHURST: A lot of data from the past couple months. A lot of things
input. And for the most part we were able to recover it because staff had their
own items, or we were able to recreate some of that data. So while it may not
have led to any extreme direct impacts, it has led to impact on our staff due to
having to switch gears and recover and redo what they've already done. So it
definitely has impacted our efficiency. But, you know, hats off to the DPW staff.
They're resilient and they come back, and they do the hard work.
But going back to that is that making sure we house our data, and we know how
to really identify our data. And one of the great things, there's always opportunity
especially when you make a mistake or when you have something that doesn't go
right. It shows you either a deficiency or something that can be improved on.
And like I mentioned earlier, you know, I hate to go back to it but, you know, talk
about the bridges and eligibility for FEMA funding. You know, again, nothing
against Neil and the Highways Division, but our previous history shows that we
just lack the records to prove some of the necessary facts. And now that we know
what needs to be done, now that we know what marks need to be hit and what
data is vital, we're able to identify that and put that onto our reports and input that
into our system, because that's important to identify what's going to be necessary
and where we need to store that so we can access that information without
interrupting our services, without interrupting our operations.
I think that's the key thing here, is not having to go back like we're doing now
and recreate data from what we already have in our backups. But we're able to
just move forward and when the time comes able to pick it up and go and not
have to run double duty on doing what we are currently doing plus trying to get
backup documentation. And I think standardizing and streamlining those
processes so not only does our leadership and management staff know what to
look for, but also for the rest of our staff. They know what the goal is, and the
expectation is so they can achieve, and also to understand that there's a purpose
behind it. I mean if you tell someone push a button every day for 365, they're
going to be like, "Why? It's just a button." But when you tell somebody what the
purpose is and why they're doing what they're doing then you'll be able to
convince a little bit more of why it's valuable and it's not just some mundane
tasks that was assigned to them on a whim. There is some purpose behind what
we do.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for that. Just a couple more questions. You
know, Matt and I represent Puna and the traffic can be pretty horrendous. So just
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wondering if at some point in the very near future, I know that you're incredibly
busy with standing up EnerGov and, you know, other issues in your department.
But would love to have conversations with Ed Sniffen or partners on the State
side to just talk about how we serve the needs of that growing population in that
region. It's just horrendous. I mean, I hate leaving at 6:45 every morning, you
know, many families do, young kids, to bring them to daycare so we can get to
work on time. But there's got to be some traffic calming measures and other
investments that we can take advantage of, particularly with some of the federal
money coming. So I know that you've got great relations with DOT, so I just
want to put that on the record that I do want to make sure County and State are
collaborating in that arena.
MR. RODENHURST: Yes. And we do have a biweekly meeting with DOT on
island as well as a contact with Ed(Sniffen) and some of the initiatives coming
down like the broadband connectivity. And we have been in talks about how we
can update our traffic systems to capitalize on some federal funding. Again, no
specifics at the time but definitely keeping those lines of communication open so
we can discuss that. And to further add to the DOT relationship, we have been in
contact with DOT about our bridges and seeing what DOT does across the State
and how we don't have to reinvent the wheel to handle some of these issues. You
know, we want to be efficient in what we have and address the needs of the
community. So yes, definitely working together with the State is key and
working with Matt and yourself to address the needs of Puna.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks, Director. And do keep us posted on the
investments for broadband. Huge parts of Puna, Ka`u, Hamakua, are without
connectivity and it's super critical for folks to build a connect for not just work
and school but health appointments.
Last thing. I would love to go to work with you to find a way, some sort of
mechanism to invest in bringing lights and signage to the main thoroughfares HPP
(Hawaiian Paradise Park). Tricky, because it's private subdivisions. But do want
to look at how we make that happen, what kind of partnership. It's hard driving
home late at night, no signs, no lights. And I think about our police and
firefighters having to respond in those conditions. I hit a pig once heading home.
That was very scary. And we need to address it. I mean, so many people are
moving into the area so just want to make sure it is safe for residents but also for
our essential personnel who have to respond when they're called.
MR. RODENHURST: Definitely. I cannot confirm there's anything we can do
at this time other than let's have that conversation and see what's available and
see what's available to us within the County to act upon. So, definitely.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah, and if it means that we need to lobby the State to
make some changes to statute, let's put all that on the table and get ourselves
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ready and set ourselves up for success so that we can advocate for that during the
next legislative session. Thank you. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Ms. Lee Loy,
go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Director, I'm going to keep
diving in a little bit and moving a little bit kind of down into the weeds with the
budget. And Haku, maybe you can help with this also. Part of the costs from your
department is water spigot maintenance, and that's a lot. And I'm not saying I
don't want to do it. But has the department looked at some cost sharing as it
relates to the maintenance of these? I know that it was stood up back in the 80's, I
think out in Puna but it's expanded to other areas. Has the department explored
some of that?
MR. RODENHURST: We have not yet at this time.
MS. LEE LOY: Regarding your computer equipment, and this is going to jump
right into EnerGov. You know, I'm trying to find the areas in which we can be
successful with EnerGov. And we heard throughout the day, you know, all the
different departments including Fire. You know,just kind of having a piece of it.
But all of that funding is with the department. And so starting with the
department, I don't see a budget that really addresses the electronic piece of
EnerGov, especially with staffing. Whether it's larger scanners, more RAM
(Random-Access Memory), or just more information to just store these large plans
with inspections, I don't see it. And we also know that we implemented a new fee
structure in the Construction Code. And so I'm just wondering strategically if it's
not in this fiscal budget or this year's budget, what the plan is to enhance those
things. Because it's one thing to stand up EnerGov, but it's going to break. And
when I say break, we're going to find things that we need to do better. But I also
see that there's going to be a need to enhance the equipment that our employees
have. So what's the plan for that, Ikaika?
MR. RODENHURST: Well there's actually a bunch of issues to cover on that
one. If you want, I can start off with interdepartmental portion of EnerGov. Yes,
we are currently housing the cost of EnerGov within the DPW budget. What was
inherited is what we have, and it's is what we have as we implement the system.
We have had discussions with Planning about, and we're starting to—well, you
know, it is what it is. We are starting to discuss how we are going to move
forward once this is up and running, how the costs are being held because this is
something that we share with Fire, this is something we share with Planning. And,
you know, we want to make sure that the fair share is going around.
As far as that's going involving the fee structure,we still have yet to determine a
lot of that. Especially, some of those fees that will be implemented once EnerGov
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goes online. We have estimates but no real hard metrics at this time to back that
up. Something we're consideringI think we talked about it previously with
Planning about our data storage. And that's also something that's very concerning
because depending on what method we go with, there's obviously always pluses
and minuses. You know, one method might be a little bit more expensive but also
one might be a little bit more dependent on an outside company to store some of
these sensitive data files. So we're really identifying that to get us in a better
place. Our goal right now is to make sure this is functional, up and running this
year and then we can, you know, have something that floats and maintains
direction and that we can continuously adjust. So we're not unaware that there are
going to be some breaks that we have to fix. But we're trying to get in front of it
now and address it before it becomes a dire issue.
As far as a structure for EnerGov moving forward and the data and the devices,
you know, we just had a meeting with our plan reviewers and our inspectors on
Monday. I sat in on that. And one of the big questions that came up was, if we're
bringing an iPad on the field with the plans on it,what's our standard operating
procedure? We're currently finalizing that and we're getting some feedback from
our guys on what might be something they can handle. You know, anything from
do they download it at the beginning of the day; at the end of the week; is there a
deletion process to maintain data size; are we doing a cloud-based app? There's
different avenues to go through at this time that we're considering, and we don't
have a clear path at this moment other than that we do need to address it because it
is vital for the implementation of this technology from the plan reviewers to the
inspectors. So we are considering it. I really wish we had a little bit more clarity
at this time for that. But we will provide that as soon as possible.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you for that. I think being aware of it is half the challenge,
right. And you talked about a leaking roof, right. We don't want this system in
parallel to something like a leaky roof because we didn't invest in kind of looking
ahead and coming up with a strategic plan to address that.
The other question I had really is around, you know, the different positions that
you have and just trying to understand the rationale. I know we need some
engineers. You know, but there's a lot riding on EnerGov right now, especially
with plan review. And I was just trying to understand if we had to phase in some
of your positions, you know, what the priorities would be. Again, a needs
assessment, right. So you have any thoughts around that, Director?
MR. RODENHURST: Yes. And something that I covered earlier is that contrary
to some people's beliefs this isn't a miracle solution to our efficiency at the
Building Division to get permits out. And also, it's not housed directly in DPW
alone. It's housed across the board. But what we can do within our department,
within our division, is making sure that we standardize those procedures, we're
doing all the things that we need to be doing and providing the additional support
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in getting an additional plan reviewer on board. We are working on that as well as,
you know,just making sure that this system, whatever benefit it comes to us that
what we have leftover we're being efficient with,with our staffing. I don't want to
bring on additional staff and then all of a sudden, they become obsolete because
there's not enough but that's not really the case at this time. We have a lot of
permits that are reviewed. Our guys work very hard, and they go through
hundreds, if not thousands of permits.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. And I completely understand. It really started as a
building permit tracking system. And we've done the work to refine Chapter 5,
which is all of our construction codes. But I also know DPW touches, I think it's,
Chapter 10, Chapter 27. I think Chapter 23 is another one. And, you know, if
some thought could be given to looking at the other sections of our County Code
which impacts it, I think it would go a long way. You know, it's about needs
assessment and strategic planning so that as we budget, you know, going forward,
budgeting for outcomes. And I know there's a couple of people here who
understand that. You know, we want to get to a place where we're making smart
decisions and investing wisely. Yeah, if some thought could be given around that;
if there's a need to do some policy shifts around those specific sections of our code
also, you know, I welcome the feedback. Those are my thoughts.
I do have one request though. We talked a lot about how the budget isor the
programs was laid out to us in summary. And if you could get something retooled
to us by May, so that when we're actually going through the budget—or at least
some consistent look, Director, between the different divisions. That would be a
lot more helpful, I think, as we make some of the decisions going forward. My
time is up. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Ms. Kimball, go
ahead. Sorry.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. Thank you for your endurance. I know it's a long
day already. And appreciate, as my other colleagues have mentioned that you have
a very complicated department with several different divisions with different
challenges each. I want to go back to EnerGov just real quickly. Training, so that
was mentioned. I don't know if Director Kern told you he threw you under the bus
but said all the training is your responsibility. So where is that in the budget? I'm
not seeing it.
MR. RODENHURST: So that's housed in our EnerGov cost. So the EnerGov
implementation is housed under, this would be page 98, of the General Funds. It's
under 5232.02, line 111, and it's the Building Permit Software Lease. And it's
under the implementation contract of EnerGov, and it's part of our agreement with
Tyler to provide training. That training is spread out across the contract through
training our technical experts and implementing the system and customizing it and
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(inaudible) it for our County as well as they're in user training, training our subject
matter experts in how to use their systems to the fullest and how it's supposed to
be used. And then from there our staff will train the remaining staff. And I think
that ties into our relations with the Fire Department. Under the training they're
considered plan reviewers. So while we are, you know, testing and tweaking the
plan review configuration and algorithms, we will be including them as far as how
they would go and do their work. And they are on our list of people that we need
to loop in when we get those processes a little bit more refined.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, great. I was going to highlight that that came up in our
conversation with them today that they were not feeling looped in at this point.
With the remaining funds available through this current contract with EnerGov, do
think it's enough for the training that's going to be needed? Just asking for a
general assessment.
MR. RODENHURST: Well I know that we were talking about previously getting
some more consultation hours and some funds for that. And I believe that's a
separate subject, correct?
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, that was for the reporting and the consulting for
development, if you will. I mean I'm asking because we want this to go well. I
think we've made that clear and I'll talk about the fact that it's not a miracle
solution in a minute. But we want to set you up for success as best as we can. So
is what's left in the contract for training enough, do you think, to bring everybody
on board.
MR. RODENHURST: Currently, as I've been updated, it is enough. What I think
the unforeseen that's not housed in these numbers is the commitment and buy in
from staff and our messaging from leadership to understand that this is where
we're going and we're here to support our staff in getting geared up. We keep
talking, it's not a miracle solution. It's a tool to be used. I think I brought up the
analogy in previous conversations where, you know, if you have seven guys
digging a trench, they move fast. But if you can get an excavator on there, the guy
can move pretty fast. But to get a laborer to an equipment operator is going to take
training. Put a laborer inside an excavator, it's going to be clumsy, it's going to be
clunky. But once you get that guy up and running, you're moving more
efficiently. And that's kind of how I view this system. It's not something that's
going to solve our issue. We still got a trench to dig. We're just going to give us
another tool in our tool bag to address it.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you for that. And you kind of segue into first, good
analogy. One of the things that Director Kern talked about, and I'd like your
assessment on too, is the attitude in the department about this transition and you
kind of hinted at that but can you elaborate on that please?
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MR. RODENHURST: It's mixed. My understanding is a lot of people have seen
technologies that have not had the commitment and support of the administration
at the time or of a management leadership at the time. And a lot of technologies
that weren't used to their full extent. I mean we talked about it earlier that we need
to be more optimized with Manli, which is the system that we've had in place. So
it's an uphill battle to prove not just to the public but to our staff that this is
something we're committed to, something that we can use. But we are committed
to it, and we will be using it. And we're providing every opportunity to hear
feedback along the way and to implement some of those changes. And some of
those changes we may not implement.
You know, I like toagain, I'll tell you another analogy. We went from
blueprints that were made with blue ink and different inks. And we went to
AutoCAD and I'm sure at that time a lot of people were upset. I'm sure a lot of
people didn't like that. I've heard a lot of people didn't like that. I've been
through the college classes of someone telling me I'm not a real engineer unless I
use a slide rule every day.
MS. KIMBALL: You know what that is, right? Okay.
MR. RODENHURST: I understand with new technology comes a lot of pushback
on people that are engrained in their ways and that's understandable. And I would
say that's our job as leaders, our job as directors, to find ways to convince staff
that we are committed to this and that we do believe this is something that's going
to help benefit them in their job. And I really do truly believe that.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. And nobody uses AutoCAD in the industry
anymore. They've all shifted to Reddit. So everything keeps moving. And I like
your analogy of the excavator because it's an excavator no one in the County has
ever used before and the user manual is in a foreign language. And so there are
lots of barriers to implementation. And so I'm just going to say this for the benefit
of your staff and the benefit of the public, there is an expectation that there will be
bumps in the road once this is implemented. But you have our full commitment to
support getting this implemented because of many reasons: access to revenue,
making sure Public Works projects have been effectively; better data collection,
better prioritization. Recognizing that it's not a miracle solution, recognizing that
there may be bumps in the road during installation, we do want to see this
implemented and are glad to see the alignment between the departments, the
administration, and ourselves to make that happen.
I want to just talk about going back to Highway Maintenance. There was one
objective; "Continue island-wide in-house resurfacing program and resurface total
of 20 miles." And then, "Zero miles were resurfaced. ED, form as an additional
step for approval to proceed on projects and delay in allotting from fuel tax due to
transitioning of positions." This is in your six-month progress binder. The reason
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I bring it up is just because I've had some questions about what are the limiting
factors. Are we limited, and this has to do particularly with roadways, are we
limited by equipment, staff, funding, or to an extent all three?
MR. RODENHURST: I would have to say to an extent all three. I mean, without
the proper funding we don't have the availability to get the asphalt, we don't have
the availability to maintain the vehicles, we don't have availability to gain vehicles
that are aging out. You know, I think we have a pretty large list of equipment for
Highways. But I think it's necessary to do the job that needs to get done to
provide service to our roadways and our rights-of-way.
As far as staff, you know, we have staff. But like I said earlier, with our current
budget we can't address all the roads within the County within a year. You know,
and I don't know there's any county that can do that. But we're trying to do the
best we can with what we have. So ifI mean I'm sure anyone would want to
have a bigger staff, bigger budget, and a bigger availability so we can achieve
these goals. But we are doing what we can and being as efficient as possible with
what we have. And I think that's what I appreciate most about this department, is
that they're about to function and do their best job with what we have available.
As far as, I'm sorry if I missed the third
MS. KIMBALL: Staff, equipment, and just funding in general for materials.
Yeah, I probably shouldn't have given you the fourth choice of, "All of the above."
And actually asked you, "Of the three, which is the greatest rate-limiting factor?"
MR. RODENHURST: Sorry, I forgot to touch on maintenance of vehicles. We do
have—some of the equipment is specific. And if something breaks down, which it
inevitably does, we don't necessarily have the availability on island. You know,
right now we have two pavers up and running. We have a third one waiting on
some parts that just aren't available within the State and we're waiting on those to
be delivered. And so there's some kind of, I guess, uncontrollable factors based
off of shipping, and those things that we just have to work around.
But for the most part I think that they do a great job with the funds available and
the maintenance of the equipment we have. I think that's key to ensuring that
we're able to maintain services is as our equipment ages out and becomes a higher
maintenance cost, be able to provide options such as buying new vehicles or, you
know, less used vehicles that we can use to really extend the life and not have to
incur so much maintenance breakdowns. And I think that's key in getting rid of
some of the older machines that are just a constant issue and making sure that
those don't happen. And implementing a standardized maintenance plan on that is
going to go a long way.
MS. KIMBALL: In addition to the needs assessment, this is another needs
assessment kind of thing where we want to be on top of the cycles that some of
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these pieces of equipment go to which actually is going to cycle me back to
another question about training which I didn't go into before. But career and
technical training, training particularly for your Automotive Division, if we're
going to upscale our fleet to more renewables potentially. Where is that in the
program; is that factored in in this budget?
MR. RODENHURST: So that's not factored in this budget. But we are in talks
with R&D about how we go about upgrading our fleet and what we can do in the
Automotive Division to address that with our mechanics, making sure we have the
people on island rather than having to wait to fly someone in to do something.
So it's definitely a big task, but we're also able to take, like I mentioned earlier,
work with other departments and work with other municipalities, and even the
State. I mean, I got some advice from Ed Sniffen on what we can do as far as
purchasing fleets and some of the initiatives that they're going through and maybe
some of the pitfalls that they may encounter, so that we can avoid those we we're
able to enter into that. And that's something that I think is important. And like we
said, making sure that we're aware of it ahead of time is a big deal. So working
with them and keeping in contact with the State and the other counties and how
they're implementing their upgrades to their fleets is important so that we don't
have to—like I said earlier, recreate the wheel.
MS. KIMBALL: Great. Thank you. And that's particular in response to my
question regarding Automotive. But just in general through the department. You
know, obviously, yours is one that is changing rapidly all the time. Where's the
budget for training to keep everybody up to date on the latest building codes from,
you know what I'm saying; where's the training?
MR. RODENHURST: And then I'm glad you bring that up. That's something we
also discussed as we have new building codes coming out. We have new building
codes being adopted by our code. And we have not just our plan reviewers go over
this but also our inspectors, making sure that when they're on-site inspecting, they
know what to look for, they know what code this is under. And so we are
standardizing a process on how to train our staff in that. We have a lot of young
staff, either inexperienced or in age. And so that's something that definitely
important for the longevity of this department so that we don't have to come back
and do this again every time we have a new employee.
That being said, some of the challenges we've had to overcome is lack of
engineers, especially licensed engineers, at the IV and V level. And what we've
been able to do is we've been able to recruit at a lower level, but due to the
licensed engineers in charge of them guide them, through this process and train
them up in how to properly address some of these circumstances, whether it be
through the regulatory process, whether it be through the contracts process and the
various ways that we use our engineers at DPW. I think that it's important because
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it gives them a guided route on their development as engineers especially working
with the County. I think sometimes, you know, Civil Engineering is such a broad
discipline that a lot of times, you know, if you learn one aspect of it a lot of the
other ones fall off to the side. So I think it's really good that we have such a
diverse group of engineers that are in the IV and V level that address different
matters at the County and we're able to give these new engineers training in those.
And so we're definitely supportive of their abilities to get the training as well as go
after their license and be able to move up. And I think that's something that I'm
trying to make clear with our staff, that I support their growth as not just
individuals, you know, as people; as their jobs, but as people.
MS. KIMBALL: So, you know, I'm thinking, you know, what we've talked about
here needs assessment for various infrastructure, needs assessment for the
equipment the County is responsible for. I'm hearing another needs assessment
potentially to make sure that we're training, and our staffing levels are appropriate,
which would all ultimately become part of a strategic plan five years, ten years for
the department. It's a big lift, but I think that's what we're looking for here and
we're looking for it reflected in at least these general statements about your plans
for the budget as well as consistent metrics across. And I realize that you've got a
lot on your plate, but I think that need for consistency for planning for the baseline
assessments is something that we're all looking for in the next round. So thank
you, Director, for your time. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. And along those lines, because what we also
have to look at is the CIP (Capital Improvement Projects)piece. And what we're
seeing is, yes, the agencies have prioritized their programs, but they haven't been
prioritized to us. They're just on there. And so we are desperately looking for that
metrics, right, what really is the priority? I know from a bigger lens, island-wide
lens, maybe something from DEM (Department of Environmental Management)
might need to go first because it impacts our environment and actually getting our
arms around that saves us a ton of money from getting sued. But I think that's
what we're trying to get to. And, you know, there's a new administration, it's a
huge opportunity here to learn a lot of lessons not only from COVID, but how we
redo the budget or maybe look at the budget at a more consistent pace. And that's
all I wanted to share. And if, you know, we get half a step there with this budget,
but make it part of our program goals and objectives, I think that would go a long
way with the years to come. So that's all I wanted to say or comment on. Chair, I
yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Nice discussion. Good job.
Rebecca, do you have any more comments?
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MS. VILLEGAS: Nope. Just enjoying the sun.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I don't know if you sound like a wookie. I
don't know what you sound like. Okay, thank you, Rebecca. Okay. I got a few
questions. Actually I've got a lot of questions. I'll try and minimize. If there was
a want for an improvement district, are you ready to take that on? In particular my
district. But in any district, if there was an improvement district that was to come
up, I think there's a need to have funds in the improvement district, for lack of a
better word, fund. Deanna may know the answer better. But are you prepared to
take something like that on?
MR. RODENHURST: Well I'm definitely prepared to work with Deanna and see
if that's something that we can house and something we can work with for sure. I
would have to be specific to really determine at the time if it's something we can
do. But open to it for sure.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Deanna, do we have funds in that
account? Thank you. Sorry. Thank you for being here, Deanna. You've been
here as long as us.
(Note: At the time, Finance Director Deanna S. Sako, came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: I think you're referring to the Improvement District Revolving Fund.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
MS. SAKO: And there are some monies, not a lot. But either way the
improvement district would have to pay back the County if we did front the money
for some of those initial costs.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But there is money in the revolving fund?
MS. SAKO: There's only a little bit. So I mean it probably wouldn't be enough to
do an entire project.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay. Thank you. Traffic Division.
The Traffic Division has been on my radar for a little while, watching different
things happen. For instance, some of our technology we use as far as the loops in
the ground or the web-based systems. Are there more traffic camera systems that
we can do? And just the contract that is happening, give me your thoughts on that.
What's going on with Traffic Division?
MR. RODENHURST: Yeah. So one of the things I brought up was the traffic
upgrades and the technology that the State wants to go forward with. And if that's
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the case, especially since we help service the traffic signals that intersect with the
State highways over here. We'd definitely be ready for that. And so I have made
sure, and I've tasked our Division Chief Aaron Takaba with making sure we're
eligible for those when those come around and making sure that we're using not
just what's up to date, but what's up to date and that's usable with our County.
There's some adjustments that need to be made on some of our detection methods.
Some detection methods in the past have proven not as useful as we intended. So
we're making sure that we don't fall into the same pitfalls in the past but also
making sure that we capitalize on the newer technologies. So we are trying to do
our best to keep up to date with our controllers, with our detection systems, and
making sure that they're reliable as possible.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, loops seem to be prettythey break
down quickly whereas the web systems that we're using, and the cameras seem to
do a really good job as long as they're maintained and cared for. This is a step in
the next generation of how we deal with traffic management, yeah. So I want to
make sure we're moving in the right direction there and not stalling. I mean I've
had intersections that were broken for six months. And I know we've got some
contracts out there to do loops in the ground versus systems that are above ground.
It's easier, it's faster, it's easier to maintain. I see a lot of pluses there. I don't
know the in and out. I'm not an engineer. But I know that the maintenance of
those systems is easier. So I'm hoping to get your commitment that we can start
moving towards that versus methods that were used, you know, a couple decades
ago that have been outgrown.
MR. RODENHURST: Yes and
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I see Aaron behind you. So I know he
probably wants to weigh in too.
MR. RODENHURST: Yeah. Aaron, if you want to weigh in, by all means.
(Note: At the time, Traffic Division Chief Aaron Takaba came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MR. TAKABA: Yeah, no. Ikaika, you pretty much covered it. Yeah, we do have
primarily loops installed in the ground. Contrary to I think what was mentioned
earlier, it is relatively reliable. But every type of detection has their pluses and
minuses and that's what we've got to really weigh and also evaluate the new
technology to make sure, like Ikaika said, that we're up to date and compliant with
whatever requirements the State might require. So that's something that we're
looking at as far as camera detection and kind of making sure that if we're going to
start using it more, we have the proper training and expertise on how to set them
up and maintain them on a regular basis.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Takaba. Water spigots,
what's covered in that cost? Just so I'm aware. I know you got your maintenance,
and you got your electricity, water cost. But Puna has a lot of them and a lot of
times they need gravel, or they need fill where the water has worn away and traffic
has worn away the roadside. Can we count on the funds that have been put aside
for maintenance to cover costs like that in the future?
MR. RODENHURST: So we do have our budgeted funds for the spigot. We do
have for the maintenance around it, we have for the spigot costs, we have for, if
I'm not mistaken, the electricity for it, you know, for the lights in the area just to
make sure it's lit up. Yeah. So for the most part that's where it covers most of the
costs. If there's anything additional off of that, anything that's out of the ordinary,
that's where Highways Maintenance comes in and maintains that section. So we
actually have a little bit of support from Highway Maintenance on some of those
unfamiliar, unaccounted for.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And that comes out of the Water
Spigot Maintenance Miscellaneous Contracts or
MR. RODENHURST: No. On top of that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: On top of that you have extra funds?
MR. RODENHURST: No. If there's something that's out of the ordinary on the
maintenance of the water spigot there's—if a sign goes down, if someone runs
over the spigot, we have some funds that we use our guys to maintain those and to
fix those. But those are not something that is your typical wear and tear.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I ran through your budget and one
thing that caught my attention is you have some drastic reductions in looks like
your Engineering Division. I'm trying to wrap my head around what's going on
with your Engineering. You have really substantial decreases in what you're
expecting as far as expenditures. Okay. That's what I was wondering, because I
saw some movement. So it was moved over to the Highway Fund. So from here
on out, the Highway Fund is paying for all Engineering? Just parts of engineering?
And how is that broken up?
MR. RODENHURST: So Engineering Division has acquired the bridges section.
The bridges is part of the Highway Fund. It's eligible for that. And so that's
housed under engineering right now and that's why we've acquired some things.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. But like non-bridge Engineering
would still fall into?
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MR. RODENHURST: So there's also some of our highway engineers that do
work upon the highways that are paid out of the Highway fund.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then Highways, do they have
their own engineers?
MR. RODENHURST: No.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Looks like there was a line item for
that in the past but it's never been you know, forgive me I'm running through
multiple books trying to keep track of what's what.
MR. RODENHURST: Could you indicate where that is?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. Give me a second. Sorry.
MR. RODENHURST: No problem.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I lost it. It's in here somewhere. I know,
sorry, Highway Maintenance, 5302. It's in the Highway Fund, but it got zeroed
out or has been zeroed out. I was just wondering about that one. It's under the
Highway Fund.
MS. SAKO: So I think that was a section that was developed at some point, but it
actually hasn't been used in a long time.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay. So it's basically deleted then?
MS. SAKO: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then running through the
Highway Fund, I ran through the numbers, I mean, you have different—what was
the thought pattern regarding OCE and Salary and Wages for these different
divisions within Highway Maintenance? Some went up, some went down, some
OCE went up, some went down. It wasn't consistent for different areas.
MR. RODENHURST: I'm not exactly sure. Is there a specific one that you want
me to touch on?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Like Puna Roads, OCE, stayed pretty
consistent; $491,000 in 2019-2020 and $490,000 in 2021-2022. But you have like
Ka`u, $203,000 dropped down to basically about ten percent to $183,000 for
2021-2022, I'm just wondering about the thought pattern there.
MR. RODENHURST: Is this primarily to the salary and wages?
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No. This is OCE.
MR. RODENHURST: Overall OCE.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. This is under your Highway
Maintenance within the Highway Fund.
MS. SAKO: So you'll notice that the budget for the two years are pretty consistent
if you look at FY 2021 and 2022. But the actuals for FY 2020, it could be for a
variety of reasons. You know, maybe they did more work in the area and they had
to transfer in material costs or something. So a lot of things can factor the actuals
for any given year.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I'm looking at 2019-2020 because
2019-2020 was probably our most realistic year, whereas 2020-2021 is going to be
kind of out the door because we were all over the place.
MS. SAKO: But when you compare actuals to budget, you know, it's similar, but
it could be that Council transferred in contingency funds. That would impact the
actuals. I mean there's a lot of different things that can impact the accounts and
the actual numbers in any given year.
MR. RODENHURST: And if I may, too?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go.
MR. RODENHURST: Yeah. So, you know, depending on the positions available,
the positions filled, that will impact a lot of things especially work getting done
and the level of work getting done as well as the reactionary nature of some of the
work that Highways does during the emergencies definitely will make a difference
in what areas are affected and where the work is needed. So there's a variety of
factors there that we can attribute some of that to. But as far as something that we
can pinpoint as the reason why it went up or down, there's no one factor.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Roads in limbo. We got$400,000
set on the side. That was kind of an interesting point there in 2019-2020 budget.
Are we planning on working on roads in limbo or are we just setting the funds
aside for possible work?
MR. RODENHURST: So it's not a top priority based off of the fact that it is a
road in limbo. It is not clearly a County road. And so that's something that we're
addressing the roads that we regularly service. So while it is not a priority, it's
definitely something that we have the ability to do and to service in need. And I
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think that's also been a contentious subject in the past about what level of service
we provide at those roads.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. There's been a lot of discussion.
I've come across a lot of information. What it comes down to for me and what
I've learned so far is road in limbos have been "gifted"to us from the State. Yeah,
you're smiling, too. But any road in limbo that we've touched in the past, we can
maintain again. That's what I've come to learn. And me and David, he went
back—and before I get too far, I just want you to know, you got a wealth of
information behind you right now, which is good. I hope you utilize that.
MR. RODENHURST: Well we are, and very well appreciated.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But, back to the point. Roads in limbo, if
we maintain in the past we can maintain again, correct?
MR. RODENHURST: To my knowledge, yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. That's what I understand, too.
Thank you. Ms. Lee Loy brought up a good point. We have a problem with
getting permits out the door. We've had it for years. They come in, they get stuck,
for different reasons. What I've watched continuously over the past couple years
is we keep hiring Inspectors and the Plan Reviewers don't seem to change. I
noticed in your budget you submitted you've got, for the Building Division,
you've got four Inspectors expected to start 4/1/2021, and you've got two
Examiners. So you've got two Examiners and four inspectors. I'm trying to wrap
my head around why we keep hiring more inspectors.
I've always had a good relationship with your inspectors in the field and they've
always been quick to get out to the field. I saw your program objectives describe
them as getting to that field in usually 2.3 days, which is over the two days you're
hoping to get. The .3 I'll give you. But I mean I have never yet heard someone
say they're happy with the amount of time it takes to get a plan back. So why is it
kind of lopsided when we look at how many Inspectors we keep hiring and how
many Examiners we hire?
MR. RODENHURST: Well, our Examiners actually do review quite a lot. I think
it's in the program budget.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I mean I looked at, I mean the program
objectives there too wasn't really glowing. It wasn't a glowing report of how often
and how frequently we get the plans out. And I got numbers from Neal Tanaka
from last year when we had the Building Code amendment and those numbers
were even worse than the numbers that you submitting to mesorry, that are in
this six-month progress report on program objectives.
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MR. RODENHURST: So I have some numbers here. And, you know, assume the
metrics we're getting it's—we're getting a lot of information and really sifting that
information is key to making sure we understand what we're looking at. We have
had in the past in the past three months, our Plan Reviewers have reviewed
3,671 permits. They have completed the review of 3,479 of those permits. Now
here's the thing that's kind of interesting is we haven't issued—in the same
amount we've issued this is residential, by the way, residential permits. In the
past few months we've issued 594 permits. That's across the County. That's not
restricted to Hilo or Kona. That's off of three months.
Now if we look in the past nine months, they have received a total of roughly
2,100 residential building permits. They've reviewed roughly 11,658. And that's,
you know, that is aI would want to put an asterisk on that number. That
includes multiple reviews and includes having to go back and review every
submittal. They've completed the review, though, of 10,678 permits and they've
issued a total of 1,829 permits in the past nine months. And that's residential
permits.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm more worried about the time. I know
you guys are going to get them and you're going to review them, but what is the
time that's happening? How long is it sitting in building? Which is therefore why
we're not hiring more Examiners.
MR. RODENHURST: So
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I've always wondered this, but I realize this
is the right time to ask that question.
MR. RODENHURST: Well and that's part of the reason why we're standardizing
our process. And what I appreciate about the EnerGov System and the tool it is, is
that we're able to identify exactly for everyone across the board, same process.
This is what we're supposed to be doing. This is how we do our work. From there
we're able to provide metrics on how efficiently are we processing this, and it
gives us the metrics to say, "Hey, we're doing all we can, we need more help. Or
to say, "Hey, this tool has helped us, and we've achieved efficiency." So that's
really what this is going towards, is standardizing those procedures. And like we
talked about for training on the inspector side, making sure that we standardize
that.
Part of the reason why we have a lot of inspectors is there's a lot of land to cover.
This is the Big Island, and the reason we call it the Big Island is because it's big.
And there's a lot of ground to cover for all these inspectors on the Kona side and
on the Hilo side. So while they're covering all this ground, there's only so much
time you can cover that's limited by distance. Our plan reviewers are able to
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from the Kona side or the Hilo side or back and forth, review these plans, then
with the electronic plan review, they're able to review it without having to go back
and forth for some of them.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But I have to say you inspection time is
sitting 2.3 days, yeah. So your Inspectors as was reported already, not now but
what you put in this six-month objective report, you're already kind of hitting the
benchmark for that. So we're hiring again. We're hiring four more inspectors and
two examiners, and we're hoping that EnerGov is going to kind of solve the
problems even though we just talked about EnerGov not being the fix-all for all
this.
MR. RODENHURST: Well, not hoping that EnerGov is going to solve the
problem, we're hoping it's going to clarify the problem. Is the problem that we're
reaching top efficiency with our staff and we need more staff, or is the problem we
just need to standardize our procedures and that was all we needed? And that's
really what the clarification's going to be. I can't tell you at this time without
those metrics with a level of confidence that that's where we're at. And in
hopefully six months or so we'll be able to get a better idea of where we're at.
But yeah, I think our Plan Reviewers, like I said, they do a lot. And like you said,
we probably need some more Plan Reviewers so that's something that we are
considering. But with this current budget, we're working with what we have and
prioritizing as best possible to achieve this work. I mentioned in the beginning,
this is a status quo financial budget where we're trying to pivot and really work
with the hand it dealt us.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I'm going to disagree with you on
that one. I thought and I think still we need more Examiners than Inspectors. I've
been in the field, I've called the inspections, the guys are there that day, the next
day or the day after. They're quick. But examinations, all I hear from the
contractors that I work with, and that I have been on the contractor's side, but
working with the contractor, plans take forever.
MR. RODENHURST: I appreciate that, and I'll definitely consider it.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Yes, ma'am?
MS. SAKO: I just want to clarify something. You know, when you're looking at
the position page and it has the expected start date, those are the positions that are
vacant and they're in the process of filling. But the rest of the blanks are actually
filled and have people in them. So really, the ExaminersI mean part of the
problem is we only have a total of five and two are vacant. So he only has
60 percent of his staff. But there's like 90 percent of the inspectors are filled so
that's why that's going quickly.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes, understood. Okay. We got the
positions on there. He's got two coming, but we've known for years we have an
issue getting plans out the door. So it's not that we just learned this year that we
needed to get more Examiners.
MS. SAKO: But these aren't new positions. Never mind.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No, no, no. I got you. They got new
positions coming in. That's your new hires. And I like that versus just a vacant
position or whatever else it would be. You're telling me when that position
started. And that's good that we're bringing them in. That's wonderful that
they've been filled those positions. Correct?
MS. SAKO: Well they may have been filled right up until the time we did the
budget, actually. And some may have been vacant longer. I think there's just—
when
ustwhen I'm sitting in the back it just sounds like there's a lot of confusion. And
maybe it's just because when you're saying new positions, I guess maybe new
hires
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes.
MS. SAKO: Because they're not actually new positions. Those are identified
differently. Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, it's the way I'm saying it. So yeah,
the positions that we've just filled, maybe not new, but to me new hires, I mean
we've needed those I think for a long time. So I'm glad to see them filled in this.
I keep watching the Inspectors get filled but not the Examiners. That's been irking
me for a while.
Thank you for the latitude, folks. I've been listening to you, wanting to ask some
questions. Okay, all in all, thank you. I like that you broke down the funding for
your department. That's good. Again, you've got a wealth of information behind
you. You got some good people behind you. Make sure you take care of them so
they can take care of the County. Appreciate it and
MS. KIMBALL: I have one last question, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go ahead, Ms. Kimball. Go ahead, go.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah. Are you outsourcing or contracting any of the reviewing
either in Building or Engineering?
MR. RODENHURST: Not at this time.
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MS. KIMBALL: Okay. That was it.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: If we're done, we can go to recess.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Let's do it. Let the record show we are in
recess until 9:00 a.m. tomorrow. Mahalo for your time today.
Recess: At 6:48 p.m., the Chair called for a recess until 9:00 a.m. on April 14, 2021.
Reconvene: The Special Meeting of the Committee on Finance was reconvened in the Council
Chambers, Hilo, at 9:03 a.m., Wednesday, April 14, 2021, by Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Mr. Matt Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder, Chair
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Vice Chair
Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member
Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member (via videoconference from Kona)
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member (came in later) (via videoconference from Kona)
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards III, Member (came in later)
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (via videoconference)
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.)
DEPARTMENTAL The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
BUDGET AND Departmental Budget and Program Reviews.
PROGRAM
REVIEWS:
1) Office of the Prosecuting Attorney:
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I think we should go to the first department
of the day. Here we have Kelden Waltjen and then you also have with you
introduce yourselves for the record as well. Thank you, Mr. Clerk.
FC-8 April 14,2021
(Note: At this time, Prosecuting Attorney Kelden Waltjen and First
Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Stephen Frye came forward to address the
members of the Council.)
MR. WALTJEN: Aloha, Chair, Council Members. Mahalo for the opportunity to
meet with you all today to discuss our office. I'd like to introduce myself. I'm
Kelden Waltjen, Prosecuting Attorney of Hawaii County. Here with me today is
First Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Stephen Frye. He's also the supervisor of our
Kona office.
I was born and raised on this island, and it really is my hope that, through the
service of the Prosecutor's Office, we can make our home a better and safer place.
With us also via Zoom today, we have members of our team. We have Business
Manager Lisa Faulkner-Inouye; our former Business Manager; interim Business
Manager, that assisted with our transition in our new Administration, Nancy Kelly;
we also have our Accountant Kayla Ogawa; our chief Investigator Daniel Pang;
our Circuit Court Supervisor in Hilo, Kevin Hashizaki; and our MIS (Management
Information Systems) Administrator Kelvin Ono.
The Prosecutor's office is composed of three physical locations. There's seven
separate units and we have about 122 employees. Our mission is to pursue justice
with integrity and commitment. We seek justice for victims of crime. We stand
up for those who can't stand up for themselves. In order for us to achieve our goal
of making Hawaii County a safer place, we need to apply a multi-faceted
approach on crime.
First of all, we'd like to identify, seek stiffer penalties for repeat, violent, and
serious offenders, including drug dealers; promote rehabilitation and treatment for
those suffering from addiction, where appropriate; and collaborate and utilize
available resources in our community toward prevention, education, and
reintegration. So, we're just looking at trying to hit crime from, essentially, all
angles.
I just want to, with the permission of the Council, I just want to say that Steve and
I really work as a team, and I'd appreciate he have the ability to just jump in freely
throughout this presentation if that's okay.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's fine. Go ahead.
MR. WALTJEN: Thank you. Crime trends are on the rise. People no longer feel
safe in their homes and that isn't right. There have been spikes in the distribution
of illegal drugs such as methamphetamine, heroin and, most recently, fentanyl.
With the growing drug influx, we've seen a rise in burglary, theft, domestic
violence, prohibited possession of firearms, as well as violent crimes such as
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robbery and murder. In December, a Puna man was charged with the murder of a
father of three who was shot and killed in the Puainako Town Center. That suspect
was also charged in connection with another previous shooting that occurred out in
Papa`ikou at the transfer station, where two men were shot at. One man was struck
seven times. That suspect was charged. He remains in custody. And through our
office's efforts, he's held in custody without bail.
Last month, a visitor was killed in Kona by his friend during an argument within
their Kailua-Kona condominium. He was charged with manslaughter. He has
posted $250,000 bail and pending his arraignment in Circuit Court. Last month, a
Puna man previously identified by our office as a career criminal with 38 prior
felony convictions was arrested and charged with attempted distribution of
methamphetamine and heroin, as well as felony abuse charges.
On Tuesday, a Volcano man was charged with sexual assault and kidnapping
charges. He remains in custody in lieu of$189,000 bail pending his preliminary
hearing scheduled for, I believe, tomorrow. And yesterday, a Kona man
previously identified as a career criminal who was recently released from prison
was arrested for several property offenses. At the time of these offenses, he was
already facing charges for violent crimes and had been granted release as a result
of pandemic concerns.
At this time, I'd like to talk a little bit about the COVID (coronavirus disease)
pandemic, but I'd like to turn over, I guess, the mic too,just to Steve.
MR. FRYE: I just want to give the Council an update on the real-world challenges
that have been facing our office, the courts and the Criminal Justice System since
the COVID pandemic was really started to feel effects throughout the County and
the State and the nation back in March. In March of 2020,jury trials and a lot of
other court hearings were completely shut down. Jury trials, specifically, were
shut down until December of 2020.
As members of the community, I'm sure everybody knows that crime didn't stop,
but the tools that we had available to deal with that crime were significantly
hampered. And we're feeling real-world effects and real-world stress from all of
those changes that happened.
Grand jury was suspended. Grand jury's one of the three ways that we can get
serious offenses before the circuit court. We have preliminary hearings. We have
grand jury, and we have information charge. So, unless someone is arrested,
charged, and taken before the court for a preliminary hearing, certain offenses
aren't allowed to be information charged, which means if there's no grand jury,
there's no additional process to get those charges into circuit court. So, the fact
that we couldn't have a grand jury for all of 2020 added to the backlog of cases
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that were sitting there waiting for courts to come back online, grand jury to be
empaneled for us to proceed on these cases.
Regular pending trials in March of 2020 were put on hold for nine months. This is
murders, sex assaults, attempted murders, violent crimes that were waiting for trial.
Many people are incarcerated. Some people are not incarcerated. But there's a
real backlog that we're working through right now with the court system to try to
get caught up. Because of the backlog, defendants didn't have immediate
consequences. Without the possibility of going to trial, we saw real-world
consequences for our ability to negotiate cases to plead cases out because there is
no penalty without the possibility of trial.
So, in conjunction with all of this, our caseloads have increased by almost double.
Our Kona deputies typically have 20-25 cases within a three-month window set for
trial. Those have nearly doubled, and these cases are still set for trial. So, you're
talking about 12 weeks, and attorneys in that office have nearly 30-40 cases that
they're trying to manage, set for trial, within that short period of time.
Probation department has affected our ability to manage offenders that are on
probation. Drug testing has been restricted. So, even when post-conviction or
post-disposition of the case, probation has had limited tools in testing individuals
in making sure they're compliant with their terms and conditions of probation.
In August of 2020, the Hawaii Supreme Court issued an order that presumed
release for everybody but nonviolent offenders. This, again, had a significant
impact in our traditional arguments to maintain bail. As Kelden just mentioned,
the individual in Kona that was recently arrested had gotten out of prison, was
facing charges. That's an individual that typically would be held, but because of
the Supreme Court order, he's released. He has the ability to re-offend.
So, our tools have been restricted. Thankfully, we're getting back to normal. The
Supreme Court is reviewing that order, and they're in the process of, hopefully,
issuing a new order that will allow us to get back to business as usual. Jury trials
have commenced again in December. We're in back-to-back jury trials, and we're
trying to prioritize the cases that go to trial, making sure that justice is hard for the
most violent, dangerous individuals first. Kona's currently in an attempted murder
trial where the victim is a police officer on duty, and Hilo's currently in trial for a
domestic violence case involving the firearms.
So, we're trying to prioritize. The courts are trying to prioritize, but we're
managing—we're trying to get through these real-world affects that the COVID
pandemic has had on our office.
MR. WALTJEN: Also as a result of the COVID pandemic, the State's finances, as
we all know, have been severely impacted. On December 21st, 2020, we were
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informed by the Attorney General's office that our career criminal prosecution and
victim witness assistance programs' funding would be cut to zero.
What is CCP? So, CCP, the Career Criminal Prosecution Unit was created by the
Hawaii State Legislature and is mandated by statute. What the Legislature found
was that a disproportionate amount of serious crimes—and I agree—are committed
by a limited number of these multiple and repeat offenders that we call "career
criminals." Our office has used CCP and victim witness funding to fund nine
positions at a total of about$420,000 per year.
I'd like to credit Senator Dru Kanuha. He did submit a bill to provide CCP
funding for our office. Unfortunately, the bill was deferred by the House Finance
Committee. And I also mahalo members of the Council who also submitted—for
your support and seeking the funding with us. That goes a long way. We reached
out to lawmakers. We reached out to community stakeholders but, unfortunately,
it wasn't enough. But we did plan accordingly under the guidance of our Business
Manager Lisa Faulkner-Inouye as well as Nancy Kelly. We did—knowing that
there was this uncertainty with CCP funding and victim witness funding, we
submitted our proposed budget.
Review of the fiscal year 2019-2020 funding. In the past, the Prosecutor's office
relied on the flexibility of additional allocated salaries and wages to offset
overtime expenses. I've carefully reviewed the salary and wages for our deputies.
When we came in December, Steve and I sat down. We took a look at that. We
made adjustments where we thought was appropriate. And those adjustments, as
well as looking at what was budgeted for the positions, I think would be—we
made these—what we looked at as, I guess, realistic amounts for any anticipated
overtime expenses as well as realistic amounts for any anticipated—if there were
to be some kind of salary fluctuations.
To put it simply, we aren't asking for an additional $420,000 to fund these
positions. We're simply asking to reallocate funding that the Council had
previously given our office to fund some of the positions that we are going to lose
as a result of the loss of the CCP and VW (victim witness) funding. Our office
needs to be fully staffed in order to serve our community and seek the best interest
of justice.
MR. FRYE: I think the Council has heard before about some of the other issues
that our office is dealing with. Over the years, the Hawaii Police Department has
transitioned into the Spillman system. Spillman's their new records management
system. And that transition for the Police Department has resulted in some
expense and that relates to us. Spillman is the portal, how we get our information.
And over the years, that has led to an increasea change in what we feel as the
Prosecutor's Office and working with that system. It's learning a new system and
trying to work with Spillman.
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The Prosecutor's Office is also dealing with transitioning our records management
system, which was previously called HITS (Honor, Innovation, Teamwork,
Security). We are still operating on HITS and we're looking to transition, and we
have been looking to transition for a while now into a system called LegalEdge.
LegalEdge, we're currently hoping to roll that out in the summer of this year.
LegalEdge is designed to interface with the courts, criminal justice data reporting
centers, and police officer the Police Department's Spillman system, to hopefully
lessen some of the workload that we're currently dealing with in trying to work
with Spillman without a system in the Prosecutor's Office that's interfaced. But
that is still in the development phases, and we're still working to roll that out. For
our technology department, that's an additional major project that they're having
to deal with on top of all of their other work.
Information technology systems also had a major shift this year in that the Hawaii
Police Department initiated the use of body cameras, which everybody looks at as
a positive thing. And it is a positive thing. It has also resulted in additional
discovery obligations for our attorneys and an additional information systems
strain for our office. We have two people in MIS (Management Information
Systems) and they're working on LegalEdge, regular technology issues on a day-
to-day basis of running the office, and body cameras and LegalEdge new projects;
and they're feeling the strain.
MR. WALTJEN: I just want to take the opportunity really to send a mahalo to our
MIS unit and all the different challenges that they've been undertaking throughout
this transition and helping us get up to speed. They're really doing a tremendous
job, given the number of projects they have going, and working in the three
physical locations at our Hilo, our Waimea, and our Kona offices. So, I wanted to
just send a mahalo to them.
Given this 2021 legislative session, there was another bill that I think is pretty
important to our office and it's related to asset forfeiture. The goal of that bill,
what it does is it aims at redirecting finances that previously would have come to
organizations such as the Prosecutor's Office and used for the purpose of law
enforcement and training. Those funds will be going to the General Fund. As a
result, we'll have to look for funding for those types of functions from a different
source. Last year, we received approximately $65,000. So, it's something that we
have to keep in mind and keep into consideration.
But with the advent of—with the pandemic one of the positives that I think the
pandemic has showed us is that the availability of webinars, Zoom conferencing,
and things like that in our office, our deputy prosecutors as well as our other staff
members have taken the use of training opportunities via the internet to its fullest
advantage.
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Steve, you want to talk a little bit about the ?
MR. FRYE: Just some of the other effects that—the State budget is under
significant strain, as I'm sure everybody knows. One of those things that's being
cut is the Big Island Juvenile Assessment Center (BIJAC) in West Hawaii. They
focus on juvenile prevention, intervention, connection of resources in
West Hawaii. We call that BIJAC. It's just another example of what the theme
has been basically because of the financial circumstances we're in. It's not that
we're not going to do the work. The work doesn't go away. We're just trying to
do less with more. And so, that's just—losing resources is causing us to find other
solutions.
MR. WALTJEN: With that, I really would like to, I guess, kind of take you guys
on a brief preview of what we're looking at, where we're going with our office,
and some of the changes that we've made as far as moving forward together across
the island in 2021. In this first four months of our new Administration, we focused
on making essential, internal office changes to promote positive changes in our
work. These internal office changes focused on structure, policies,procedures,
with the ultimate goal of streamlining promoting efficiency and accuracy, which
will ultimately result in better prosecutions and decreased overtime expenses.
I understand past concerns with our office were large overtime expenses. It's
something that we tried to look at to see how we could come up with creative
solutions and alternatives. In order to accomplish this goal, in addition to looking
to the community, we look to our staff for suggestions. Our business managers
implemented a SWOT (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, Threats) approach.
And what they did was they met with all the different units in our office, and they
spurred discussions with staff about what they identified in our office as strengths,
weaknesses, opportunities, and threats towards the productivity of our office. And
what was great about these discussions where we were actually able to implement
some of their suggestions.
With respect to overtime, it's my understanding that in the past our office paid out
approximately $90,000 in overtime, over 3,000 hours to members of the unit
because of a need to address workload and caseload. Our changes aimed at cutting
these expenses and being more resourceful with our time and our staff. So, what
we did was we encouraged flex-work schedules to address court-related time
constraints. We brought people in early, let them leave early. Other people would
start later, leave later. And that has to do with there's just different time
restrictions that are imposed with court deadlines and having attorneys coming to
and from court.
As a result, I think we've been able to be more efficient. We've been able to focus
on utilizing staff members' strengths. We were able to redistribute duties and
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assignments. And we focused on cross training members of the units so that
they're able to cover in the absence of one of their other members. That way we
don't fall behind. With having reviewed policies and procedures within our
individual office units and implementing changes, we alleviated unnecessary work
and further prioritize the best use of resources and staff.
We looked at all the different—the workflow of how papers moved in the office.
We tried to identify what was necessary, what didn't need to be done. Sometimes,
there's things that may have—what I like to tell my staff is,just because we've
done something for the last 20, 30 years, doesn't mean it's right. Times change.
We need to be fluid. We need to look forward and see; make necessary changes
where appropriate. And those are some of the things that we looked at doing.
In our intake, our screening unit, as a result of changes that were implemented by
our Administration, we've addressed a backlog of police report updates. So, when
a case is charged, the discovery process is ongoing. Police will continue their
investigations. Other police reports come in and they come over to our office, and
they're fed over through the system in the interface. As a result, when our new
Administration took office in December, we were looking at a backlog of
approximately 5,500 police report updates. I am pleased to report as of todayI
checked this morning—we were at 479, with the oldest report updates dating back
to the end of March.
In December, our case referrals. Case referrals are cases that the Hawaii County
Police Department initiates. And if the case isn't arrested and charged, they will
route the case over to our office for review. In December, when we took office,
the referrals were back about six months. This morning, I checked and the oldest
case referral that hadn't been in taken by our office was the last week in March as
well.
So, we've made tremendous efficiency movements forward with positive changes,
and I am hoping that we can continue to increase productivity and better serve the
public as a result of these types of, sometimes, out-of-the-box thinking kind of
ideas.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: If I can, we're having a little technical issue
that they wanted to address,just in our computer site.
MR. WALTJEN: Oh, no problem.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Can we take a quick five-minute recess?
MR. WALTJEN: No problem.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
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MR. WALTJEN: Thank you.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sorry for interrupting. We are recessed for
the time being.
Recess: At 9:25 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 9:30 a.m.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Aloha, welcome back. We're out of
recess. Mr. Waltjen, excuse me for interrupting you. Go ahead.
MR. FRYE: Mr. Waltjen sort of left off at where we were at with addressing the
backlog issues and some of the changes that we've made to certain units. I just
want to fill you in on some of the changes we've made in our attorneys' units.
We've implemented a policy where the supervisors of all those units are going to
be working supervisors. They're going to be leading by example. Our supervisors
in both the Hilo, Kona district court, circuit court offices are the attorneys that
have the most serious cases, and they're the ones that you can go to for knowledge
and experience because they're handling the cases, they're actively working. They
carry full caseloads. And we've seen positive morale boost from that change.
In Kona, we split into two separate units. One unit is focused primarily on victim-
related offenses, sex assaults, assaults where there's a victim. Another unit is
focused primarily on drug offenses, traffic-related offenses, things that require
more technical evidence. And the two teams split categories of offenses that don't
really fall into either, sort of like property offenses and things of that nature. The
specialized nature of that allows each of the supervisors in Kona to provide
training opportunities for their team members, and it allows attorneys to focus on
issues that they're most motivated to serve and to prosecute, which we've had
some positive feedback with that change in fostering people's natural abilities.
MR. WALTJEN: In addition to our sexual assault unit and our domestic violence-
focused deputy prosecuting attorneys, we have assigned deputy prosecutors to the
Police Department's specialized units, including the vice section, traffic
enforcement unit, and the special enforcement units. As a result, the deputies have
established a well versed and knowledgeable understanding of the relevant law
related to those types of offenses. And they have good working relationships with
the detectives, resulting in what we like to look at as better-quality prosecutions.
Also, one of the things that we try to focus on within our new Administration is, in
order to improve efficiency we looked at work environment and facility
improvements, and addressing some facility concerns at our office. So, I'd just
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like to send a mahalo to the team over at Public Works for their assistance in
addressing some of our facility needs and repairs.
One of the other things that we were able to address, and we're hoping that we can
get this done in the next couple of weeks, is we had a copy machine in our Kona
office. Steve, you want to kind of explain it a little bit.
MR. FRYE: So, we're thankful to have a new Kona office that opened in
September, which put us in close proximity to the new courthouse. Prior to that,
we were in Kealakekua still the old courthouse that was creating a commute that
was a significant delay. It took a lot of hours out of the attorneys' schedules when
they were driving back and forth to court over that distance.
In our new building, one of our major copiers, the copier that does most of our
workload and most of our printing, required a 220-volt plug. It was upstairs and
all of our clerical is downstairs. The copier that was upstairs couldn't go in the
downstairs copy room where the clerical works without rewiring the outlet that
was down there and making physical room with the removal of the cabinet. So,
Public Works really stepped up and they took on that project in the last couple
weeks. And we're going to get a new copier downstairs that can handle the
workload that's going to prevent our clerical from having to go up and down the
stairs. It just improves efficiency.
MR. WALTJEN: We're also focusing on improving relationships with other
agencies and fostering what we like to look at as a more cohesive Hawaii Island
law enforcement with the overall goal of making our home a safer and better place.
I'd just like to send a mahalo to Chief Ferreira and Deputy Chief Bugado. Each
month, we meet with them for a face-to-face police-prosecutor meeting. We
actually met with them yesterday. There, we get to discuss different concerns,
cases, policies, other issues that are popping up. And together, we can kind of
address how we can work together to serve the community better.
In the past, the police-prosecutor meeting that was scheduled was a quarterly
event, but we realized that having more frequent meetings will just lead to having a
better understanding and keeping up to speed of what's going on. And we also
wanted to have more open lines of communication with the Police Department's
Administration, because we just recognize the need that it is crucial for us to have
that type of direct contact with one another in order to serve the community in the
best possible way. So, our police-prosecutor meetings are smaller, more intimate
meetings. Steve and I meet with the Chief and the Deputy Chief, and we're just
able to kind of hash out any concerns that may have popped up through the ranks.
The things that we've heard about and address them in a more timely fashion.
Another thing that we're doing is we're working with other State, Federal law
enforcement partners and agencies in joint initiatives and operations aimed at
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reducing crime in our community. So, we're trying to partner up with other
agencies and kind of keeping them abreast of what's happening here and learning
from other trends in other counties.
Our investigators unit has transitioned to implementing more law enforcement-
related functions, and we're taking ownership of our own cases. They're assisting
HPD (Hawai`i Police Department) in serving subpoenas and penal summons,
complaints, and conducting follow-up interviews and investigations. They assist
police in drafting of search warrants and executions of search warrants on digital
evidence, and we're also aiming at addressing noncompliant sex offender
registration violators.
I was at a meeting the other day with the Attorney General's office, and what they
informed us of was that on Hawaii Island we have over 400 registered sex
offenders. And at present, there is a concern that there is a large number of
noncompliant violators. So, it's definitely a concern that was brought to our
attention, and our office is looking to make improvements on how we can address
this. And our investigators unit has stepped up. So, mahalo to Daniel Pang and his
team.
Another thing is, by assisting our police where we can, we hope to free up officers,
alleviate unnecessary burden, and do our part in making better resource of our
County's already limited resources by having our investigators assisting and doing
things that maybe we can free up the police and allow them to better utilize their
time. And the department has just been—HPD has been very cooperative, and we
just thank them for continued—and we look forward to working with them.
Our victim witness assistance unit is essential to our office's ability to provide the
best service to our community. They assist in the coordination of our witnesses
and the support for our victims. Mahalo to Deborah Chai and her team. This goes
without being mentioned: I talked about this earlier about our multifaceted
approach. And while a lot of times people don't realize within the Prosecutor's
Office, besides attorneys, we do have other functions. And one of the things that
we focus on in our office is prevention and intervention efforts. So, our crime
prevention and justice assistance group collaborate, and they engage community
stakeholders on issues such as substance abuse, sexual assault, domestic violence,
prevention, and education.
We also have a restorative justice program. I know you guys have probably seen
presentations by Tim Hansen and his team. They do a great job. They assist and
restore healing and closure outcomes for our crime victims through different
options, including diversionary efforts. And as a result of their efforts, they have a
very high success rate with their program and the types of things that they're
doing. Very innovative. First program like that in the State. And we really are
looking at utilizing their team's efforts in how to best serve our community.
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One of the things that's newer with our office is we've been working to create
more open lines of communication, provide the public with information. So, what
we've done is we've recently created an Instagram and Facebook accounts.
Mahalo to Special Projects Coordinator Allen Bartolome. He's one of the main
people who's been working on getting those updates to the people. These outlets
serve to provide the public with information about what's happening in our
community as well as what's going on with our office. So, I'd be hard-pressed not
to take this opportunity, but please follow us: Instagram, Hawaii Prosecutor's.
And our Facebook account is County of Hawaii Office of the Prosecuting
Attorney.
And one of the last things I just wanted to note was, speaking of open lines of
communication and public information, as you all know, we're recently assigned
deputy prosecutors to each of the nine County Council districts. In fact, some of
you have already, I think, met with our deputies. So, thank you for taking the time
out of your busy schedules and trying to address community needs. They also will
be working with the community police officers and school resource officers, and
we just hope to establish better, more open lines of communication and
strengthening connections within our office to the community and other
community stakeholders. Just the ultimate goal of reducing crime.
Lastly, I just want to take this opportunity to thank our budget review prep team,
especially our fiscal unit and Accountant Kayla Ogawa, for all their assistance and
putting up with all of my questions and concerns and comments. They really did
put a lot of time and effort into helping us, as well as the past Administration. I'd
like to thank Lee Lord and Mitch and Dale for all their support and assistance in
getting us prepared.
In closing, mahalo to all of our staff for all of their hard work. Each member of
our staff is an integral part of our office `ohana. And basically, I think we've all
touched on this a little bit, and I'm sure the other departments are looking at the
same types of concerns that we have with the budget and financing. And one of
the things that we all are having to do is we are all being asked to do more with
essentially less. But in order for us to keep our communities safe and make it a
better place to live, our office really just needs to be fully staffed. We just ask for
your support. Mahalo for your time. Does anybody have any questions?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much, gentlemen. Very
nice, thorough presentation. I would like to say welcome to the new position. I
know you just took(inaudible).
MR. WALTJEN: Mahalo.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And I'm going to turn it over to the Council
for questions from the Council Members. Mr. Chung, go ahead.
MR. CHUNG: Good morning, you guys.
MR. FRYE: Good morning.
MR. CHUNG: Kelden, can you just briefly explain how, you know, you guys
touched upon the records management system, how that's working out. The
coordination between you guys and the Police Department. Any glitches? Any
problems that might cost us money?
MR. FRYE: Currently, right now, the biggest hiccup between the records
management systems linking up is the IT (Information Technology) Department
for both departments the police and our IT department—and the designers, the
contractor the LegalEdge designers just need to all get on the same page, to work
on the mapping of how things are going to come across. How the databases relate
to each other. That's where the project is hung up right now.
MR. CHUNG: How long has that problem existed? I think we've heard this
before that's why, right? Is there some kind of proprietary issues involved with the
vendor? That becomes problematic sometimes. I mean, do you think it can be
worked out? Because it predated your time there, right? How much of a problem
is it?
MR. WALTJEN: Right now, I think we have the right people at the table. One of
the biggest issues, I think, that we've had in the past, I think, is it's important to
have the right people at the table at the right time to make the decisions necessary
to move a project forward.
And I think what we've done is we're really trying to identify issues and concerns
with what has happened and what's taking so long. I know you guys are like,
what's taking so long? Why can't we get this going? It's definitely a concern for
us. But I think what we've had to do is we need to just identify and be more
specific in making decisions as to what types of needs and systems that we want
the programs to do. And I think we are moving in the right direction, and I am
very optimistic that we can get this going sooner rather than later.
I watched past budget presentations that I know this has been something that's
been on the table and something that our office has been working with. I think
what has happened is there's just a number of projects that kind of took priority,
especially with the Kona office move and things like that, of that nature.
With our MIS team when we opened up our new Kona office, it involved
coordination with having to be able to shut down an office on a week and be able
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to be up and running with custody calendars and things like that the following
Monday. So, having the servers and those things setup properly with Spillman
interfacing with our LegalEdge system, our supervisors have provided input. And
I think we are on the, what I like to look at as the downhill of getting this thing
rolling.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. Go ahead.
MR. FRYE: For some additional context, it's in the testing phase. So, LegalEdge
is up. It has dummy data that's loaded into it. Our staff is actively running tests
and working with the LegalEdge developers. So, they're doing bug testing and
they're providing input. And like Kelden was saying, it's going to the supervisors
to make sure that efforts are being put forth to make sure the system is as useful as
we need it to be. So, it's in that final phase and bridging the gap between police
and LegalEdge to have the updates just so the data flows over, and it can go from
dummy data to live. So, I think we are in the closing stretch, and we're hopeful
that we can close out.
MR. CHUNG: This situation is not unlike what other departments face. For
example, yeah, we heard this before and it's still existing, right. But I'm bringing
it up not for the purpose of highlighting any failings or anything. It's just so that
we can understand and invite you to engage us if you need more resources or help.
And that's all, really. Okay? Because the last thing we want to hear is you guys
come back next year and the problem exists, right? If you guys need help,just
reach out. Okay? But right now, you think you guys have a good handle on it.
MR. FRYE: I think we do.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. That's the main thing. And you guys are young. You guys
are new at this thing. But I've got to say this—and, Kendall, I mean Kelden, I told
you this: After your inaugural speech, I thought it was excellent. You gave an
explanation of where we're at and what you and your Administration plan to do
going forward, what the public should expect of you and your department. It was
great.
And your presentation followed suit. No more fluff. You guys got right into it.
I've got to admit, even as an attorney, there's a lot of stuff we couldn't understand,
okay, but it was information, very important information. And I like the way
you've come and made your presentation. I think you're getting off to a good
start, and we want to support you as much as possible. So,just let us know
whatever we can do to help.
MR. WALTJEN: Mahalo for your words of advice. Thank you.
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MR. CHUNG: So right now though, then, in a nutshell, this budget that you guys
have is enough for what you need to operate?
MR. WALTJEN: Yes, we believe so.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Ms. Kierkiewicz,
go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. And I just want to disclose for the
record I've known Kelden since we were five. We have both attended St. Joseph
School, and I don't always have this opportunity to say this, so, "Go, Cardinals!"
Kelden, excellent job. I think former Prosecuting Attorney Mitch Roth really led
the department well. You and your team are really taking it to another level.
Really appreciate the time that you've taken to engage staff, improve the culture.
And you taking the time to just engage partnerships, including community
stakeholders, the Police Department, in very thoughtful ways. I feel like all
partners are really aligned and engaged on a common vision and mission, and
that's to have healthy, safe communities. So, thank you.
I appreciate you talking a little bit about Spillman and LegalEdge and where you
are with that. I do just have to ask, though, how are we going to make it more
efficient? And the reason why I ask is because I've done a few walk-throughs with
Prosecutor's Office, and I saw fax machines, which I thought were a joke, but you
guys actually use them. So, talk about what the purpose is and if there's a way that
we're going to transition away from faxes and go to email because we all have
email these days.
MR. CHUNG: Let me address that for you guys.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks, Aaron.
MR. CHUNG: I cannot speak for everything, but the court still takes only faxes,
believe it or not.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I see.
MR. CHUNG: That's why we need to have the fax machine in place.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Wow. Okay.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah.
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MR. WALTJEN: I can, I guess, update a little bit. So, in the past, in the morning,
our district court, our custody clerks as well as our circuit court custody clerks,
they would get all of these faxed over documents from the Police Department. A
big mahalo to the cellblock staff at HPD because they'd go and they're jamming
all these documents through, and they send it all over.
So, one of the things that was done, and this was actually done under the prior
Administration, to just make things a little bit more efficient was they started to
scan those things in. So, those documents are being shot over via email to our
staff. Because as we all know, when you get a hundred faxes coming through,
when you come in in the morning it's just all strewed all over the floor. Not a
good sight. I think probably kind of a little upsetting for the staff, they have to go
and try to put it all together. So, that we have done.
But, yeah, as Aaron has mentioned, unfortunately there are some things that we
just need to have the fax in place for. One of the things is correct that the courts as
well as other agencies, including Mainland agencies, utilize a fax to send certain
things as a more, I guess, secure form of processing and transmitting information.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Thanks for taking the time to explain. Anything else
to add, Steve?
MR. FRYE: And I think if your question goes beyond just the fax machine,
because things have been done recently that have eliminated the fax machine.
With Spillman, we do get some of the documents from the custodies over
electronically. So, it's just the custody logs that we're getting, the number of faxes
has decreased. But in general, if you're talking about the use of paper, we use a lot
of paper. We use paper in discovery processes. We print things. We have
massive files. We have massive storage of paper. So, I think the thought of doing
whatever we can to eliminate that and move forward to electronic discovery.
And as Kelden was talking about, when we're meeting with police, streamlining
anything that we can convert into digital is the goal moving forward. It's just
going to take small steps as we go. But that's the vision that we have moving
forward. With that in mind, we just need to make sure that our backups are in
place. As we all might know, the County had that issue with redundant—not being
backed up and losing some of the data. So as long as it goes to electronic, but we
have redundancies in place to manage any issues, we should be going in the right
direction.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Great. Yes, we are aware of that major hiccup. Yeah, I
mean, there's just so much paper in your office. You can create cubicles and I see
attorneys crossing the street over to the courthouse with, like, boxes that they're
attached to. So, okay, thank you.
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Fiscal year 19-20, we increased personnel within the Police Department. Puna,
many parts of the island got a number of officers, which we really needed. How
has that impacted your department? Any need for additional personnel to kind of
support that? Just curious. You said you're good with this budget, but we want
you to be realistic here because we can't help you if we don't understand what
your challenges are now and thinking into the future. Don't be shy.
MR. WALTJEN: I think if I didn't take this opportunity and ask for more
positions, I think my staff would be pretty upset, especially our support staff.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Don't go crazy but.
MR. WALTJEN: Yes, we do feel the increased amount of cases that come to the
office as a result of the increased positions within HPD, but at the same time,
we're realistic in our expectations. We understand the limitations of the current
financial situation. We have tried to make adjustments where necessary. And with
what we have proposed, we think we can make it work. We're just thankful that
we have a very great team over at our office. Our clerical unit, I can't thank them
enough. They spend so much time, and the amount of dedication that they put into
each case is, it'sI can't say thank you enough to them.
Our attorneys, they're salaried employees. To say that a Deputy Prosecutor just
works from nine to five or 7:45-4:30 is that's hard to come across. Oftentimes,
you'll see deputies fielding calls on the weekends, late at night. Steve and I, we're
both line prosecutors. For a number of years, we carried full caseloads. We both
still carry caseloads. We try to do our part to help carry the weight of the office.
We still field calls from the police for conferral calls or things of that nature. And
as a result, we know what it's like to have to put in the time necessary.
And I feel like we have a team of prosecutors that likewise have the same goal and
vision and are dedicated to our community and really do put in whatever time is
necessary to make sure that we can get the job done and do what's best for our
community. So, that being said, yes, if we could have funding for additional
personnel, we would jump at that. We do have ideas on how we could utilize
assistance.
One of the things that we did put into our budget is, given the number of
employees we have, the three physical locations, as noted by Aaron, past concerns
with the new LegalEdge office management system, and all the other additional
requirements that have come over the years with the judicial electronic filing
system and the utilization of the bodycams, HPD's new records management
system, Spillman, what we realize is we could really use additional help for our
management information system's team. And having a position out at our Kona
office, to have somebody on-site would just be essential, I think, to really just be
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more efficient with our office's resources, and our IT department. That's one of
the areas.
The other areas that if we're—our clerical unit is stretched very thin. We ask them
to cover a lot of responsibilities and handle a lot of work. Some of them are
assigned to—our circuit court unit right now, our clerical unit, is short staffed. We
have the supervisors are stepping in to take on attorneys, which is great, you
know, leading by example, and having to process a lot of work. So, if we had the
funding for additional clerical positions and support staff positions, that would be
great. It also would be helpful if we were able to get assistance for positions that
are, I guess, more like non-traditional. A lot of time that we spend in our office,
with Steve and I and working with our special projects' coordinators, we've got to
think outside the box to get things done.
I mentioned this earlier about the social media. Really, that is our Special Projects
Coordinator Allen Bartolome and myself and a bunch of other people in the office
who are going and taking the time to do the posts and things like that. During the
legislative session, we have our special project coordinators jumping in. And we
also look to all our individualized units and our attorneys to keep abreast of
different topics and issues of concern. So, if we were able to have the funding for
assistance in that administrative type of level, whether it be a public information
officer or something like that, that would be a tremendous help.
Another thing that our office
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Kel, in the interest of time
MR. WALTJEN: Okay, sorry.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I'm going to stop you there.
MR. WALTJEN: No problem.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: But do you want to suggest, you know, we've got a lot of
folks in college, university that would leap at the opportunity to potentially intern
with your office and help with your social media. So, I just want to put that out
there.
MR. WALTJEN: Okay.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Oftentimes, they're doing it for credit. So, that would be
something where there's really no cost involved on our end. But I will follow up
with you to kind of talk story with you and Director Sako about what we can do to
support your department. I really do think you are an excellent investment. I just
love how strategic you are with how you position your resources.
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A couple other questions I have. This one's more of a statement. I appreciate you
mentioning the work you're doing to engage stakeholders around domestic
violence underlying issue for so many criminal activities. I do want to follow up
with you on what that multi-sector plan looks like, and how my colleagues and I
can help with any other programming or any funding or whatever engagement. So,
I'll follow up with you.
Real quick answer here. Status of getting through the sex assault case backlog. I
wasn't sure if you'd cover that.
MR. FRYE: So, the sex assault case backlog, are you talking about uncharged
cases?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes.
MR. FRYE: There's a sex assault deputy. The sex assault kit initiative is a grant
that our office has. We have an assigned prosecutor and an assigned investigator
that specifically work on cases that are generated from sex assault kits. So, DNA
(Deoxyribonucleic acid) testing kits that come over, and that's part of his caseload.
So, all of those cases that are in that backlog are assigned to one attorney, one
investigator.
There's a multi-disciplinary team involving the forensic testing VAU or Victims
Assistance Unit, police. And there's monthly meetings to talk about the progress
of those cases. So, those cases are actively being reviewed. They're being
charged. One recently went to trial in late March in Kona. So, those are being
actively addressed by the SAKI(Sex Assault Kit Initiative) grant.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, great. Thank you. Final question has to do with our
Pahoa office. I think, Kelden, you and I have a shared dream of community court
there at one point in the future, hopefully. But before we get there, the idea of
creating a hub of resources for community, can you just talk real briefly about
what we're trying to get to community through that office and how we're engaging
the Police Department in that work?
MR. WALTJEN: Sure. Recently, it's been brought to my attention, in speaking
with Lieutenant Derr(William)with the community policing division, that one of
the concerns or how we could better serve our community is, in the past our office
had assisted in providing workspace for a Neighborhood Watch coordinator who
was situated in our Hilo office. But as we all know with COVID concerns and
things like that, available workspace is really prime, and it's highly sought after.
So, at the current time, we can't really accommodate that workspace.
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So, in speaking with Ashley, one of the things that we had looked at was how the
Pahoa office could be a possible community resource hub. And we reached out to
Lieutenant Derr, and I think we got the ball rolling in the right direction where we
may be able to have an East Hawaii Neighborhood Watch coordinator situated in
the Pahoa office. And I think there's several candidates or people already in mind
who actually live in the area. So, I think it's great. They are looking to see how
we can also set something similar up in West Hawaii. And I'll probably be
reaching out to the West Hawaii Council Members to see if they have any ideas
on possible locations or as well as possible people who might be interested in kind
of laying the front on the coordinator position.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Great. Thank you, Prosecutor Waltjen, Steve. Really great
to see you guys. And again, thank you for assigning deputies to our districts. I
was able to catch up with Nathan and Sylvia. They're excellent. Your team's
excellent. Thank you. Great job.
MR. WALTJEN: Mahalo.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Mr. Richards, go
ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Thanks,prosecutors, for coming before us,
talk story a little bit. Shifting gears but playing off of what Ashley was just talking
about, the domestic violence. There's been a little bit of an issue with that. I know
East Hawaii and West Hawaii, but then we have north and south. And I know of
situations where the investigation, if there's been a crime, there's been some stutter
steps where people end up having to go to Hilo or Kona to be attended to, and
that's not the right thing to do.
I know you're fresh in the seat, but I also know you're carrying over. Are things
being done to be more sensitive to that, since it's a very sensitive subject, to better
attend to the needs of the victims? So, who do I ask that to?
MR. FRYE: So, specifically for North Hawaii, we do have the Waimea office.
Are you talking about VAU(Victims Assistance Unit) counselors or counselors
in ?
MR. RICHARDS: Probably the whole package because I know it's beenI know
of a situation where a woman was attacked, and she was told she needed to drive to
Hilo by herself.
MR. FRYE: For court?
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MR. RICHARDS: No. To have the samples taken and all. And so this is not
the appropriate thing. And I realize this is a joint thing between the police and the
Prosecuting Attorney, but it's the bigger topic that we have to solve. And so, if
you're not aware of the issue, but I think you probably are, are we taking steps to
address that? Because I know YWCA (Young Women's Christian Association)
was working on that with the cameras and all that. But is this a priority? Because
it's an issue.
MR. FRYE: So, we have a standing meeting—it's by CAPSA (Community Abuse
Prevention Service Agency)that addresses the concerns. It has YMCA (Young
Men's Christian Association), it has police, and it addresses SANE (Sexual Assault
Nurse Examiner)nurse testing and making greater availability. So, that's police
that issue specifically is driven by police, but we're involved, we're certainly at the
table by CAPSA. And that's a general issue, a known issue, where there's a
shortage of SANE nurses that are available. And they the police have a contract
with them so that they're on call so that they can go and service victims. But it's
an unfortunate circumstance if an individual does have to drive.
MR. RICHARDS: So, this is a known problem, and you are working on—I mean,
I'll ask the Police Chief as well.
MR. WALTJEN: Are you also talking about the closing of the CFS (Child and
Family Service) office? Is that one of the other—the Child and Family Services
office?
MR. RICHARDS: You mean in Waimea?
MR. WALTJEN: Yeah.
MR. RICHARDS: It was never really open. I think it was two hours a week or
something like that. So, it's an issue. I realize in Kona and Hilo it's better
attended to, but I'm worried about North Hawaii and South Hawaii. Ka`u is an
issue as well. So, I'm throwing that out there as a concern, and we need to follow
up on that and probably move that agenda item along better than what we've
intended to.
MR. WALTJEN: Our office also coordinates a domestic violence interagency
committee monthly meeting, and we also do an in-office meeting. And we do
meet East and West Hawaii. So, what I'll do is I'll make sure they put it on the
next agenda and maybe just start the discussion. That would be the best,
appropriate place to do it because we just have the right people at the table. So,
thank you for bringing that concern to our attention.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. So, I appreciate that. I'll shift over a little bit.
Agricultural theft. You had an investigator, Shane Muramaru, and I know that
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was, I think, a State-funded project. And like everything, I'm sure there's no
funding left for that. Hawaii County, we are retooling towards a strong
agriculture economy. And on a GDP (Gross Domestic Product) basis,
agriculture—well, nationally GDP out of agriculture is less than 1 percent. Very
important. Without it, we starve.
In our State, we're about the same level. But this County, I think as nearest I can
figure it, it's about a four times level. Agriculture is very important to the County.
The problem is historically agriculture theft has been a misdemeanor and so,
therebyI get it. The police are busy. You guys are busy. But this impacts
people's lives. And if we're true and serious about food self-reliance, we have to
be very serious about protecting agriculture.
I know now there is, and I have the number, it's a felony for very low threshold.
What is your priority initiative for tending to ag (agriculture)theft? Because, we
have to put real teeth into the enforcement, number one; but then number two,
prosecution of this. And with that is also the trespass laws. People trespassing on
ranch or farmlands. And as well, they're not really hurting anything but that's not
the case. And I think recently in Ka`u we had, because of trespassing, I think there
was some injury. I think it was a gunshot.
So, my concern is that, like so many times, agriculture gets sort of pushed to side
because it's not a huge amount of money on the wholesale basis, but it is a
livelihood. And if we're not going to support it, then we start seeing vigilante law
come along. So, what is your initiative when it comes to ag theft and protecting
agriculture to go forward?
MR. WALTJEN: We recognize that agricultural theft is definitely a serious
concern in our community as you mentioned earlier, especially with a lot of
members of our community making their livelihood. We met with a family out in
Ka`u, coffee farmers, and they explained to us in detail the effects of what it's like
to lose one harvest, essentially. And it's just the impact that it has on not just their
operation, but their family and their ability to food on the table. It's something that
we definitely recognize. It is a need and concern that we will be working with the
police to address.
One of the issues and concerns with agricultural theft is, when we look at a
criminal statute or criminal law we hear the name of the offense, but what we also
have to keep in mind are the elements related to that offense. Agricultural theft
has very specific elements that the prosecutors have to prove in order to charge the
case.
And it also has to do with weighing items, having a scale available. One of the
things that, and I think the frustrations that are had in working, and the police are
frustrated, they didn't have, like, a calibrated scale available so they could weigh
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items that were stolen. And as a result, it impacted the ability for us to go forward
with the case. Other things are having properties enclosed in a manner that is
easily identifiable to an intruder that this is a fenced-off area or whatnot. Some of
the properties didn't have those types of barriers constructed and things like that.
But that being said,just because someone commits a theft on an agriculture
property, that doesn't mean that we couldn't go forward with charging a simple
theft, unauthorized control, whether it be unauthorized control or receiving stolen
property. So, there's other avenues that we can look at, other types of offenses that
we can look at charging. You mentioned criminal trespass, but this has been a
concern that's been brought to our attention by numerous community stakeholders.
We're actually looking in our office to see what we can do to assist. And one of
the things that Shane actually had worked on in the past was looking at the
possibility of utilizing other forensic type of evidence. And we are in the process.
We're starting to look to see how we can implement this, but this is something that
we have to work through with the Police Department. But we definitely do
recognize the issue at hand, and we will be making steps to hold these people
accountable.
MR. RICHARDS: I know Shane was working on I think it was called "Smart
Water"
MR. WALTJEN: Yes.
MR. RICHARDS: Where you can spray and then track. And we talked about the
scales because I did talk to him about the scales as well. As Councilman Chung
pointed out, if you need these resources, let's get after this and get it on because
ifI know the whole criminal trespass. And ag theft typically, most of the time,
happens when people are criminally trespassing. And I know there's guidelines
pertaining to you have to put up signs and say, "No Trespassing,"which is, to me,
kind of a no brainer if there's a fence.
But I know land managers, whether they're the owners or leasehold, are struggling
with the whole trespass thing. For instance, I think it was last year time gets
away but we had the University of the Nations, they trespassed across Parker
Ranch and then we ended up sending our Fire Rescue people in during the
flooding to get them out of Anna's Pond. And the liability because potential is
severe, but then Parker Ranch is the one that is pointing, well, you know, they
shouldn't be able to get there. I mean, we have to put more teeth into it. And
thankfully, Parker Ranch went after and filed a complaint. We need to put more
teeth to protect agriculture.
And so, I'm putting that out and I'll come talk story with you, because I've got
some thoughts on this. But I think this needs to be a high priority now that we
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have some law to back it up to make it a felony. And then, we need to put some
teeth into it because I think he's talked about the coffee farmer in Ka`u. Waimea,
I've kicked people out of Luis Rincon's strawberry field, and it was, "We're just
taking some strawberries." That's not the point. You're stealing.
So, anyway, those are my big concerns right now, and I'll come talk story with you
later. Oh, one other thing is your—sounds like you've been working on systems to
increase efficiency, which is excellent. I just wanted to give you a shout-out on
doing that because, looking at what you have, looking at what will streamline
things to make it more efficient so you can get more volume through the system,
which is critical. So, anyway, a shout-out on that. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Lee Loy, go
ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Prosecutor Waltjen, First Deputy Frye,
excellent presentation. And I'm going to take off from where Council
Member Richards left off, which is you guys did an excellent job of what I would
describe as journey mapping. You guys have identified strategic, critical pinch
points of your department and how to make them effective and efficient.
And so, I want to walk over to a lot of the grants that you folks have. First
Deputy Frye, you touched upon it and so did you,Prosecuting Attorney Waltjen.
You mentioned some of the cutbacks at the State. And I'm asking more from, not
just this fiscal but the next fiscal following up. We're seeing a lot of need in our
grant-in-aid committee that provides a lot of support services. When some of these
crimes are happening, they're downstream. And so, you guys are upstream. And
so, if we can get more funding to you folks upstream, some of the underbelly of
community that we see that are being supported by our nonprofits, whether it's
drug addiction with BISAC (Big Island Substance Abuse Council), right, domestic
violence, some of those things. Hopefully, we can begin to alleviate some of that
and start finding more solutions.
And so, in your grant revenue piece, you have the JAG (Justice Assistance Grant)
grant, the training grant, the BIJAC (Big Island Juvenile Intake and Assessment
Center) grant. Are they going to be there, not this year, but the following year?
And I'm asking to kind of think around the corner a little bit.
MR. WALTJEN: We presently are of the position that that funding will be there.
If something were to occur and we'd have to make adjustments, then we would
gather our team together and we would see how we would best alleviate any
financial burdens associated with the loss of those grants. But at present, I don't
have a concern about those except with BIJAC. That funding is gone. So, we'll
have to see how we will be addressing the needs of that group in West Hawaii.
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MS. LEE LOY: Okay, great. Yeah, because I see it as a crest, right. We talked
about the decisions that the CJ(Chief Justice) made with shutting down court, all
this kind. So, you guys were able to catch up on a backlog but there's going to be
this crest, right. As it past you folks, we're going to actually see it back in
community. And so, I'm trying to kind of take temperature on what that might
look like in 2022-2023 as we begin to feel those effects down in community.
And so again, if we can try and get more money upstream to you folks, whether
it's through assistance at the Legislature with helping support funding over there
or, as Ms. Kierkiewicz mentioned, some of the work for staffing. I think those are
good tools that we could use so that we end up lifting community, actually, if we
put the resources in the right places.
And then, I did want to offer, as we go through our nonprofit grant-in-aid
committee, there's some work that's going to be happening throughout the year.
And I just want to engage your department to come and sit down with some of
those nonprofits who are asking for tools, and actually provide a lot of the
education that you guys are charged with, too, around crime and the justice system.
And so, if we could partner you folks there, that would be huge because then we
actually, as Ms. Kierkiewicz always says, leverage our social capital around that,
right. Because what we really do well here on the island is we network well.
And then, I do want to thank both of you for taking on the social media piece. I
think that's an excellent tool. I do want to say, on top of everything you folks did,
you guys have incredible heart. Kelden, I've got to say your tribute to
Sheri Lawson was phenomenal. Thank you for honoring her in such a fantastic
way. So, with that, Chair, I yield.
MR. WALTJEN: Mahalo.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Oh, did you want
to respond?
MR. WALTJEN: I just want to say mahalo. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Ms. Villegas, go ahead. You
had a question?
MS. VILLEGAS: Sure. Just a couple of questions here. First off, thank you and
congratulations on this role and in presenting such a thorough budget explanation,
list of needs and services, and the transitions and changes that you've made to
improve on that department. I wondered if you could tell me what percentage of
cases go to trial.
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MR. FRYE: So, we're seeing what feels like more cases going to trial than ever
before because the fact that there were no trials, especially jury trials. The
percentage is hard to put a specific number on. It's just not something that we've
ever tracked. Nationally, you hear things around 90 percent of cases are
determined without sort of a trial. So, maybe 10 percent of cases go to trial.
We have in the tens of thousands of cases that we handle on a yearly basis. A bulk
of those are in district court, traffic-related cases. So, in district court, you see a lot
of cases that are DUI(Driving Under the Influence) related, OVUII(Operating a
Vehicle Under the Influence of an Intoxicant) cases. Those cases have become
more difficult to prosecute over the years based on some appellate decisions.
MS. VILLEGAS: Gotcha. Yeah.
MR. FRYE: So, they're highly contested. So, you see those cases going to trial a
lot. Certain other cases like a"driving without a license" case are going to go to
trial much less because there's less of a defense that someone can raise.
With the more serious cases where someone is facing a lengthy prison sentence,
sometimes those are less likely to go because the resources police are able to put
into them are significant. The evidence against the defendant is significant and the
risk the amount of time that an individual could face by going to trial and being
incarcerated without pleading guilty, they decide to plead guilty and cut their
losses and throw themselves at the mercy of the court. So, you see a lot of cases
resolving by way of plea agreement in cases that are strong.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. And my apologies. Perhaps I should have created the
frame of reference for this. Now, is it correct that you guys predict salaries for the
prosecutors based on future cases? I'm just wondering how are you able to do that
when you're not sure of the future cases. If you could just help me understand that
connection.
MR. WALTJEN: One of the things that we use when we're looking at
determining salaries of our deputies, we look at their experience level, the types of
cases that they handle, their current assignments, the seriousness of those types of
cases as well as what they bring to the table as far as their past experiences and
where they've come from. And we also do an assessment based on performance.
And those are the types of things that we take into consideration.
One of the things that was really important to Steve and I taking on a new
Administration was accountability and making sure that salaries were appropriate
based on the type of work each individual attorney is handling and their
performance.
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MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Thank you. I appreciate. So, it's based on past
experience and then, looking into the future, their capacity and capability for
handling future cases and what that caseload would look like based on experience
and knowing how to navigate those things. That's helpful to understand. Do you
guys come across a lot of open-and-shut cases?
MR. FRYE: Yes. There's a lot of open-and-shut cases. There's a lot of people
that are caught red-handed. But that doesn't mean that someone will come into the
system and plead out immediately. If you have a felony case, someone can't get
arrested one night and come in and plead guilty the next morning. You still have
to go through the process where that matter is committed up to circuit. They're
going to be afforded an attorney. It's very unlikely that someone's going to be
able to waive their right to an attorney. They can but it's a lengthy process to have
the judge go in and waive that right.
So, even in the most clear case of an open-and-shut case where there is no defense
and there's nothing but evidence against the person, there's still a lengthy court
process and a lot of work that's dealt in managing that case, especially at the
felony level.
MS. VILLEGAS: Right. Would you say that efforts are made to avoid going to
trial if it's viewed as an open-and-shut case?
MR. FRYE: No, I don't think there's any efforts to avoid trial. Certainly, the
effort is focused on doing what's in the best interest of the community. The more
serious the case ismurder, sex assault, any kind of community safety risk
we're taking a hard look at those cases. And those are the cases that often go to
trial because there is so much risk to the defendant for spending a very long time
being incarcerated.
So, we do have to make tough calls sometimes on which cases we're going to be
seeking the longest punishment possible on because there's more cases that are
possible to take to trial in a calendar year. And we're up against time constraints
in Hawaii where a case has to be taken to trial within 180 days, and we have more
cases than the courts could accommodate.
MR. WALTJEN: Another thing I'd just like to add is a lot of times people
there's a misconception that just because we go to trial and are successful and win,
that the court is mandated to impose the maximum penalty by law. If a certain
case or offense is charged in a manner that has sentencing provisions structured
like that, that is the case. But oftentimes, it's at the discretion of the court. The
court would make the determination as to what the final sentence would be. So,
that's just one of the misconceptions about trial.
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With respect to plea negotiations, one of the things that's very important to us is
having the input of the police as well as the persons affected, the victims in the
cases, that we do take their input and what their desired outcome is into
consideration before we extend offers in cases. I know oftentimes—sometimes the
public may become upset because of what they see as maybe too light a sentence
or leniency. We just would like you all to know that we do take input and we do
take into consideration before we make decisions.
MS. VILLEGAS: And just so you guys understand my line of questioning, based
on this being the joys of budget time is wanting toI'm asking these questions in
order for the public to be able to hear and gain a greater understanding, because
sometimes there's a perception that going to trial costs a lot of money. But the
way that you're answering is very helpful in explaining the need to continue to go
to trial even if some might perceive that that's an open-and-shut case, that's a
waste of money, you know, tax dollars, prosecution, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
But thank you for your clarifications and your detailed explanation of the need to
follow through and take to trial even cases that may be perceived open-and-shut
cases in order to ensure that justice is served, and the right sentences come down in
the courts for people that have to go to trial for the things that they've done. So,
thank you for answering that line of questioning for me and helping to explain that.
I appreciate it. And with that, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Ms. Kimball, go
ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. I just want to tap into something that I think I
heard Council Member Lee Loy grab onto with this budget, is that it's pretty clear
with some extraordinary circumstancesCOVID that you guys are treading
water, right. But I think all of us have an interest in seeing future budgets that
include greater emphasis on dealing with things upstream, right, before the
domestic violence situation, before the kid gets involved in drugs, before they start
stealing cars and whatnot. Basically, we'd love to see you guys work yourselves
out of a j ob. But the understanding is you guys are catching up right now. I
certainly appreciate that.
I wanted to just ask a couple of specific items. The Aid to Victims, I see has been
zeroed out. Is that something that came from the State, that you were not getting
as well—you may have mentioned it in your presentation, which was excellent and
very well prepared. You are clearly attorneys. I may have missed it. I apologize.
MR. WALTJEN: Yes, the victim witness program is being cut.
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MS. KIMBALL: Okay. All right. And what's theagain,just my lack of
knowledge about these things the forfeits, both the State and Fed(Federal), those
were significantly less than what was budgeted. Why is that?
MR. WALTJEN: You're making reference to the asset forfeitures? Is that—?
MS. KIMBALL: It's this item in the budget I see Deanna coming up; maybe she
can answer it—but Items 5271.44, 5271.47, Prosecuting Attorney Forfeit State and
Fed. They're budgeted for $200,000 and $50,000, respectively, but were
significantly less in the
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Council.)
MS. SAKO: So, that's one of the accounts they were talking about that there's
legislation at the State as well, but they can only spend what they receive. So,
there's an offsetting revenue account to match that expenditure account. And so,
we only let them spend what they get. But to have it appropriated already if they
are fortunate enough to get the funding, then they can go ahead and spend it right
away.
MS. KIMBALL: I got it. So, there's are really just placeholders. Great. Thank
you for the clarification. I do want to emphasize as well that the ag theft issue is
definitely a concern in Hamakua. I did have a chance to talk with Shane a little bit
about it. And one of the things, Council Member Richards, we can share with our
constituents is to make sure that folks are reporting. That was one of the things
that I got from Shane, was that there was people would report a couple of days
later and say, "Oh, yeah, somebody came,"rather than reporting immediately. So,
that's another message I want to put out there to the public.
I'm curious about incidences of gun violence. We know that from some of the
testimony from the Police Department with the grant for the registration, tracking
that sales have gone up significantly with COVID. Are we seeing any increase in
gun violence cases?
MR. WALTJEN: We've definitely seen an increase in gun violence cases. We've
also seen an increase of illegal possession of prohibited firearms. So, illegal guns
as well as what seems to be common is felons in possession of firearms. A lot of
times those types of offenses come coupled with possession of illegal narcotics.
Oftentimes, drug dealers, distributors, they're armed to protect themselves, I guess,
from and to facilitate the distribution of the illegal narcotics. So, yes, we have
seen that. It has been a concern.
One of the other things that's been a pressing concern is the number of what we
refer to as "ghost guns." Ghost guns are firearms that are un-serialized. They are
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not tracked. These are firearms that people are putting together via kits that they
buy. And oftentimes, a person that would have a ghost firearm is a person who is
prohibited by law from owning a firearm. So, not normally a law-abiding citizen
seeking to exercise their rights. So, yes, it's been a definite concern. We've been
working with the police as well as Federal agencies and hoping that we can try to
curb the issue and concern in our community.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you for that. I'm quite concerned about some of the
reports that I'm seeing about an increased escalation of violence, particularly with
domestic violence, which is a priority for me to work on. With people having to
stay at home, many of the DV(domestic violence) cases escalated to a much more
serious level before they were addressed. And again, another thing where I hope
in future budgets there'll be more money put towards those preventative upstream
measures. I certainly will support that, and I think some of my other colleagues
would like to see that as well. Mahalo. Thank you, Chair.
MR. WALTJEN: Mahalo.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball_ Maile David.
MS. DAVID: Good morning, Chair. Mahalo. Prosecutor Waltjen, I just wanted
to say, first of all, thank you for that very detailed presentation for your
department, and I appreciate all the work that you've done. And I don't really
have a question, but I just wanted to let you know that, primarily, I want to echo
Council Member Richards' concerns regarding ag theft.
My district's primarily ag. My district is strictly ag. Coffee, ranching, and various
other kinds of ag products. And we've been hearing that there's a lot of theft
going on, and I know it's a difficult thing to get evidence on because they normally
hit at night. And farmers really have little or no options to prevent that. So, I just
want you to know that it's a very important issue, and I appreciate any efforts that
you folks can do in addressing this very serious problem in rural districts.
And I do have one inquiry. How many cases that comes through your office have
to do with crimes against our elders or kupuna?
MR. WALTJEN: It's interesting that you bring that topic to light. Just the other
day, it was brought to our attention about a pending incident. And it definitely is a
community concern. We want to hold people accountable who abuse the elderly.
The incident that I'm talking about was an assaultive nature, but there's also
crimes where elderly persons are taken advantage of.
At one time, we had an elderly abuse section in our office that was grant funded.
We don't have that funding anymore. But that is something that has been brought
to our attention by different community stakeholders, and we will be working with
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our deputies to make sure that, where appropriate, looking at the sentencing
provisions and seeking enhanced penalties for those types of offenses where
appropriate. By statute, there are enhancements if certain elements are met,
depending on the facts and circumstances of each case.
MS. DAVID: Yes, and I appreciate that because I raise that issue because, in
addition to all the domestic violence and crimes against our children, I really
believe that crimes against kupuna have basically been unnoticed by the powers
that be. And I really would love to work with your department in trying to seek
solutions to this. It's something that does not get reported a lot, and I think that's
one of the major issues. So, I just wanted to raise the issue and bring it to your
attention and offer to work with your department in any way that I can to address
this issue. Mahalo. I yield.
MR. WALTJEN: Mahalo.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. David. Ms. Villegas, you
had a follow up question?
MS. VILLEGAS: Yes,just a quick question here. I believe it was about two years
ago we voted as a Council to join on to litigation related to the opioid epidemic
and holding opioid manufacturers responsible for much of the damage that's been
done throughout society based on addiction and the addiction rates and kind of
what it caused in transitioning from pharmaceuticals to illegal drugs.
Now, in watching the news, there have been some verdicts that have come down,
which I believe the last one I saw allocated was it$80 million to the State of
Hawaii to help mitigate some of the damage caused by the opioid epidemic? And
I wondered, from a budgetary standpoint from the Prosecutor's Office, if any of
that funding was going to be headed in your direction in order to help mitigate
many of the challenges and the tragedies caused in an association with the opioid
epidemic, and to help serve people who may have been harmed. So, I'm
wondering if you guys are seeing any of that or if any information about that
funding and resources has been made available to you at this point.
MR. WALTJEN: Mahalo for bringing that to our attention. No, I haven't seen
any of that type of documentation coming across my desk, but that is something
that I can have our office look into maybe as a possible resource. So, thank you
very much for bringing that to our attention.
MS. VILLEGAS: Sure. It just seems like it could be, especially as youI can see
such a heart for service and making sure we're taking care of victims and the
support necessary in order to help them navigate legal processes that happen. My
apologies; truck going by.
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So, I just think that would be great. And as a County as ideally, hopefully we see
some of these resources being allowed to come downstream to the counties.
Hopefully, some of this will become available for the good work that you do. But
it doesn't sound like there's any specific numbers or anything included in this
budget. Is that fair to say?
MR. WALTJEN: Yes. Yes, I'm sorry.
MS. VILLEGAS: No worries. Okay, great. Thank you for answering that, and I
am, once again, hopeful that we'll be receiving some resources to help support the
people who, unfortunately, suffer the repercussions of the opioid epidemic. All
right. Thank you. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Okay, I don't see
any comments. Oh, Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Kelden, I'm going to ask you, I mean, since we kind of segued into
broader topics. You don't have to talk too long on these things. I just wanted you
to share some of your thoughts. I know you guys are not the enforcement arm of
the County. Basically, it's the police who has to do stuff and then you guys get
pressed into action, right. But what are your thoughts about the potential for race-
based crimes proliferating here? We're kind of unique, right? But any thoughts on
that? Just briefly.
MR. WALTJEN: I think wehonestly, we live in the, what I consider to be
probably one of the most diverse communities anywhere in the world. I'm a firm
proponent in believing that we don't have race-based crimes occurring on a regular
in our community. Are there cases where a statement or a slur is made as a part of
the facts and circumstances that come out? Yes. But I haven't seen, like, a spike
in any specific group that has been brought to my attention.
MR. CHUNG: Okay.
MR. WALTJEN: Steve, did you want to ?
MR. FRYE: I haven't seen anything either, and I think, in general, I think that our
County is very lucky in that respect. From a national perspective, certainly there's
disagreements but I don't think there's any targeted violent acts or property
offenses that are being specifically targeted against a particular group of people.
But that's not to say that we don't look for it—
MR.
tMR. CHUNG: Right, okay.
MR. FRYE: And that we don't take it seriously if it ever would be reported.
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MR. CHUNG: Right. And we are unique, right? Second one, what's the state of
organized crime in the State of Hawaii? I know there was a big push, right, to
dismantle a lot of so-called operatives. But at the same time, and not saying that
I'm a supporter of organized crime, but I've often said that what happens when
you take out that mechanism of organized crime, then what comes into the void is
disorganized crime. And what's your thoughts on that?
MR. WALTJEN: It's funny. I think I remember you and I having this
conversation one day. I think,presently what seems to be at the forefront as far as
what looks to be organized is distribution of illegal narcotics. That seems to be
organized. And, yes, there is some sentiment with that when you have certain
level offenders feeding the poison in the community, it does invite—addiction
rates are up. As a result, there's a lot more petty crimes and things of that nature
occurring. I think that's what you're kind of getting at as far as with an
unorganized hierarchy among criminals.
MR. CHUNG: Well, not only that, too, but I'm really disturbed about the number
of shootings particularly against police officers nowadays. I'm totally unfamiliar
with that concept, and just recently there's just been a growing number of these
things happening. I mean, you will see maybe three of them a year. Before, no
such thing really, yeah.
MR. WALTJEN: What's come to light lately, and it's a lot of the cases that I've
worked on at least in the last couple of years is situations where I can tell you
where people—typical traffic stops where officers come into contact with a person
who has a firearm within arms' reach. It is a concerning number of these cases.
I can tell you there's also a concerning number of cases where there are other
situations where there's a firearm in the car that the officer can't see, but maybe
they see drugs or drug paraphernalia. And as a result, that person is placed into
custody and arrested for a drug crime. Later, subsequent, a search warrant is
executed and then, as a result of that search warrant, they find firearms, multiple
firearms, multiple types of ammunition. And then, it's brought to light that that
person who is driving the car is also a convicted felon.
It does seem that there are a concerning number of criminals, repeat offenders,
felons, career criminals, who are in possession of firearms, and it's something that
I know law enforcement has taken very seriously over the last years. And we're
hoping that we can continue to, in our ongoing efforts, to address those types of
concerns.
MR. CHUNG: The last thing would be gangs, both locally and maybe from
outside. Any idea on what's going on there? Or if that's a problem or it's a
potential problem? And just briefly. I'm just kind of picking your brain.
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MR. WALTJEN: Right. In the Hawaii State law enforcement community, as far
as gangs go, the growing concern or the greatest concern involves prison gangs.
So, these are organizations that manifest themselves within our correctional
institutions, whether they be out of State, in Honolulu, or even here on our own
island. These different types of gang affiliations do create a means of people who
enter into them for means of protection and things like that. There's initiation
processes. But the growing concern is how that relationship or that affiliation will
affect the community when this person is reintegrated back out into society.
A lot of times, these people are marked and identified, and they have a code that
they live by. And there's a means in which they are connected to this group, and it
does impact them in the long run. But these types of groups a lot of times have
been identified as causing certain types of disturbances, and there's been assaults
and things like that within the correctional system that have been brought to light
at least lately. But the public safety department as well as other law enforcement
agencies do take a lot of time in trying to identify these types of members who are
affiliated with these different prison gangs and groups.
MR. CHUNG: I just wanted to chat with you about those things. But thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Council, any
further comments, questions? Okay, seeing none, I have a few questions of my
own. Thank you for taking care of sex offenders in our community. You made
that a priority and thank you for doing that. I think it's very important. Along that
same line of thought, there was some discussion last year about exploitation or
trafficking. We have our new State trafficking, our human trafficking coordinator
Sha Talebi. What are your thoughts on exploitation of keiki, but also anyone in
our community?
MR. WALTJEN: This is something that's been brought to light, especially in the
last year. And you're very familiar with the issues arising out of this. In the
Legislature right now, they have—Representative Ichiyama did introduce bills
related to human trafficking, and our office did support that bill. And it is really
looking at just setting up coordination efforts and really reaching out into the
communities. And our office has the buy-in, and we are willing to do whatever we
can to help alleviate some of those concerns.
The other thing is with human trafficking, I know we've started to attend monthly
meetings with an organization here on-island, and just kind of bringing us up to
speed. Because one of the things that, I think the first step in taking a step in the
right direction is being aware of the issues at hand in our community. So, I really
thank Melody Stone for inviting us to participate in her meetings. But that's kind
of where we're at. We're looking at all the different tools, and we're working with
the Attorney General's Office to hold these types of offenders accountable for their
actions.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then, looking to our revenues
for General Fund, there's actually a line item for "Child Exploitation Task Force,"
but we weren't funded. I mean, is there thoughts that we'd get funding from the
State or from the Federal level for any kind of exploitation measures? I mean, I
know even Trump made it a priority for his Administration. What are we looking
at from there? Do you have any idea?
MR. WALTJEN: One of the things that our office is this is something that
we've been recently working with the Juvenile Aid Section, with the Hawaii
County Police Department, and our investigators unit. And I believe there's things
that are coming into a plan of action that hopefully will come to light soon that we
can share with you and hopefully successes that we can share with you on the
types of steps that have, I guess, come to fruition through the cooperation of our
office, the Attorney General's Office, and the Police Department. As for the
funding question, I think it's just that if funding was available, this is definitely
something that we could prioritize and have people in the right places.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Another one I wanted to check on.
You talked about the career criminals, kind of, portion of your budget. I think you
said it was $420,000 a year that you had
MR. WALTJEN: Yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Been shorted. And I'm looking in the budget
for revenues, and I do see a zero for 2021-2022, which is what you're trying to
make up, correct?
MR. WALTJEN: Yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But it's a fairly substantial increase from
2019-2020 where they only granted us—really received as revenue $183,000,
which I find interesting. That's good. I mean, so, they're stepping in that direction
then. But this year, due to the budget at the State level and Federal level, we just
didn't get anything.
MR. WALTJEN: That's correct.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Touching on what Tim Richards
talked about earlier, there's a line item here, too, for your agricultural crimes
projects. This year's estimate would be $106,000. How are you utilizing that to
take on agricultural theft and crimes?
MR. WALTJEN: Where is that?
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MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It's under revenues under the General Fund,
3305.94. I think Deanna's coming up. Deanna may be available.
MR. WALTJEN: I see Deanna coming up. I think this one was cut. Yes, this is
one of the grants that was cut.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so, yeah. So, in the budget it's
showing as 106. So, that's actually going to be a zero.
MR. WALTJEN: That's correct.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And that is not included in your guys' budget
that's in front of us right now?
MR. WALTJEN: That's correct.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I wanted to commend you on what I
saw you do as far as your overtime, and you touched on that briefly in your
opening statement. You took off$100,000 for your Prosecuting Attorney's Salary
and Wages, Overtime. That's pretty commendable. I've seen that from a lot of
different departments. So, mahalo for doing that. I did see a pretty substantial
increase in your budget for your telephone, for Kona side specifically. And I'm
really gauging by 2019 and 2020, which is a normal year. This year has been all
over the place. So, I'm not really looking at this year as far as a guideline for what
to expect. But looking at 2021-2022, what is that? It's almost a $30,000 increase.
MR. FRYE: It might be tied to the Kona courthouse workroom. So, when the
courthouse was built, there's an area in the courthouse for the prosecutor to have a
dedicated space. And we have to shoulder that expense to have the phone line and
the internet line in that workroom. And it was critical during the time when the
Prosecutor's Office was about half an hour to forty-five minutes away to get
documents timely to our attorneys that were present in court that needed to check
cases, have internet access, and have that workroom there. And that workroom is
still—even though we're closer, it's still a valuable resource that we can have
that's just right across. It's on the third floor by the circuit courts on the south side
of the building. And it's a tremendous asset to our attorneys that are conducting
trials and are on regular calendar days, and I think that's a contract that has a
duration.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you. Understood.
Ms. Kimball touched on it earlier. "Prosecuting Attorney Forfeits from the State."
Can you just explain the use of that? Your actual expenditures in '19-'20 was
$15,000, but we're budgeting $200,000 this year. That's a huge difference. So, I
want to understand the difference, what's that being used for. I can see the line
item in here but what is that?
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MR. WALTJEN: The asset forfeitures is like—we're likely not to get anything
from the State. I think that's what Ms. Sako was touching in earlier as far as the
amount. The amount is there if it comes in, but we're likely not to get anything
because the asset forfeitures will likely just be going to the State General Fund this
year.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It's important for us to know because it's in
our revenues and that's a substantial that's $200,000. There's another line item
as well there.
MS. SAKO: So, yes, it's in the revenues but there's the offsetting expenditure.
So, if you take one out, you take both out. It doesn't really impact the budget. It's
treated like a grant. So, there's the revenue side and there's the expenditure side,
and that's where I was saying earlier: Only if they get the revenue, then we allow
them to spend it. But it's not impacting the total revenue for the General Fund
because it's treated like a grant.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So, as a grant then, I mean, because it's in the
Prosecuting Attorney's budget. And it covers, I mean, you've got furniture,
equipment, subscriptions, miscellaneous charges, advertising, contract services.
MS. SAKO: If they were to get it—
MR.
tMR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Travel, training.
MS. SAKO: Then they would spend it. But if they don't get it, they don't get to
spend it. And that's true of any grant in the entire budget. If they don't get the
revenue, then they don't get to spend it.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And that goes for the "Prosecuting
Attorney Forfeits Federal" as well.
MS. SAKO: Yup.
MR. WALTJEN: Yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So then, grant then, total in 2019-2020 was
$15,000.
MR. WALTJEN: That's my understanding.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It's right here. Our budgets are actuals. So,
then, 2021-2022, though, we looked at$200,000 as a possible grant revenue.
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MR. WALTJEN: I think we just projected in the event that it gets to that amount.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It's a pretty substantial increase in your
projection, yeah.
MR. WALTJEN: I think it was just in an abundance of caution that we picked that
amount number.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. What other funds do you guys use for
your account, I mean, sorry, what other streams of revenue do you apply to your
department? General Fund? What else?
MR. FRYE: The best person to answer this question might be our Business
Manager Lisa Faulkner-Inouye. If she's on maybe she can field that question.
(Note: At this time, Business Manager Lisa Faulkner-Inouye came
forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Lisa, are you there?
MS. FAULKNER-INOUYE: Hi. Hi, all. Thank you. Hi, Matt.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Good morning.
MS. FAULKNER-INOUYE: So, the question was, what are our total revenues or
total amount of grants that we have?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No. What are your revenue streams for the
department, for the most part? I mean, not a detailed list but just kind of break it
down for me.
MS. FAULKNER-INOUYE: State and Federal grants. So
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You've got General Fund.
MS. FAULKNER-INOUYE: Pardon?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You have General Fund. You have grants. I
mean, kind of break it down for us.
MS. FAULKNER-INOUYE: Okay. So, we have several State and Federal grants
that allow us to do all of our innovative programming, and the remaining comes
from our General Fund from real property taxes.
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MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then this year, due to State grants
dropping, we're increasing the pull from the General Fund. Does that sum it up?
MS. FAULKNER-INOUYE: Say that again?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Because we're losing State and Federal grant
revenue, we're more dependent on the General Fund this year.
MS. FAULKNER-INOUYE: Yes. We're more dependent. And, unfortunately,
as State revenues get reduced, some of our innovative programming also reduces
accordingly.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. That's unfortunate because that's the
programs that really help out the community from what we just talked about too.
MS. FAULKNER-INOUYE: I think it's really important to know that the
majority of our innovative programs for the community are grant funded.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you, Lisa. I appreciate that.
Thank you. Just to ask, Kelden, marijuana; we have kind of a promotion of the
what are they called—hemp industry, but what are your thoughts towards
marijuana in the community?
MR. WALTJEN: Our office takes a very low priority look at marijuana, simple
marijuana possession offenses. In fact, you know,the legislature decriminalized
simple possession of three grams or less marijuana, making it a violation which
means it's not even an arrestable offense. What I've noticed, with respect to
marijuana if you want to look at it on the side of how it relates to other crimes and
things like that of that nature, sometimes you see marijuana as a tag-along offense
charged with another number of offenses, usually possession of more hardcore
illegal narcotics like methamphetamine. And that's just as a result of users who
use methamphetamine, they will smoke marijuana to come down from the high.
And so for the most part when I see cases involving marijuana charges being filed
which is pretty rare nowadays, especially in Hawaii County. It's usually only
charged in conjunction with other offenses. I haven't seen a standalone single
count simple possession marijuana violation charge out of our office probably in a
year, maybe longer. I think we've really taken a perspective that it is a very low
priority. Now that being said, if it's a larger quantity of marijuana, we have
charged those commercial promotion charges of marijuana where individuals are
possessing, you know,pounds or multiple pounds of marijuana that's also
comingled with firearms or large amounts of U.S. currency.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Good. Thank you. I just had some people in
my community asking.
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MR. WALTJEN: Yeah, I mean, there's a misconception. I mean, there's a lot of
people who'd say that there's people incarcerated at HCCC (Hawai`i Community
Correction Center) based solely simple possession marijuana charges. I can tell
you that's not true.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I remember hearing that. That came up as
we discussed releasing prisoners due to COVID, and then releasing for simple
crimes. And in that discussion it came out, you know, we'll let out everyone
who's been arrested for a marijuana offense out. And I remember, I think it was
Mitch, saying there really isn't anybody in there for just a simple marijuana crime.
MR. FRYE: Sort of in relation to the marijuana issue,just some things to keep in
mind going forward with that issue. As the marijuana laws change, the Police
Department currently has a section of their vice unit specifically for marijuana and
that's when Kelden was mentioning the commercial promotion, those are still
actively being enforced. A lot of times when you see those cases the growers
might have partial licenses or expired licenses. So you deal with people that might
be trying to do the right thing but are not complying with all the requirements, so
we'll charge those cases because there's a requirement that they follow the law.
One thing to keep in mind, that impaired driving cases, marijuana impaired driving
cases are still going to be a safety concern. And as the law changes,just a
reminder, that marijuana can impact your ability to drive, and currently our OVUII
laws require us to prove for drug offenses that it's a scheduled substance. So if
marijuana is ever removed from those scheduled substances that's going to impact
our ability to prosecute impaired driving cases on marijuana.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, like driving under the influence
basically?
MR. FRYE: Correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Working with police to keep
offenders off the streets, I think you mentioned that in your opening remarks. You
know, Puna, you went through your opening statement, and you said the word,
"Puna"three or four times as far as where the guys were from. We know we get
some problems in Puna, too. But, I mean, what can we do to help address that and
take care of our community? I mean, in going back to 2018 and Officer Kaliloa,
and then we've had some really interesting people get arrested in the middle of our
subdivisions there. Some of our police officers, CPO's (Community Policing
Officer), have been absolutely amazing in coordinating with neighborhood
watches but, you know, what else can we expect from your office when it comes to
cracking down on crime and increasing public safety?
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MR. WALTJEN: You know, one of the things that we're trying to focus on is
smarter prosecutions. And what I mean by that is,when looking at the facts and
circumstances of cases in our case evaluation and assessment, we look at all the
facts presented, and we see if there are certain sentencing provisions that are
appropriate where we can seek certain enhancements or penalties that make the
crimes more to hold these types of offenders accountable for their actions. And
hopefully the message gets conveyed to, you know, these offenders that we're
taking a position that we're trying to make our community a safer place.
I really feel that in the progress we've made, you know, with the Police
Department, we really do have a unified front here on Hawaii Island with our law
enforcement community and we are in a more cohesive environment, working
together and striving for common goals. And one of those priorities, I think, that
has been addressed is just making Puna a safer place. You know, the thing with
crime is—crime really isI mean, crime is the Prosecutor's Offices'
responsibility, the police's responsibility, and judiciary. But much more than that,
crime is really a community concern. It's all of our kuleana. It's all of us working
together and just sharing the want and the desire to make our home a safer and
better place.
You know, what I've realized in, at least in this first four months is, it seems like
the community is really coming together. It seems like people are supporting one
another. You know, I was talking to one of my deputy's this morning and she was
telling me about how a community is rallying around a victim and supporting her
and trying to make her feel safe in her home, because she was violated and doesn't
feel safe in her home. And now her neighbors are trying to help her, you know,
spending time with her, and doing their part. And it's really touching, and I feel
like that's really how we as a community can get behind one another and support
each other.
So really just, you know, to the members of the public, if you see something
happening, you know, say something, you know, do something. Be part of the
solution, not part of the problem. And I really feel like that's kind of the direction
that we're trying to encourage, you know, which direction our office is moving
forward in, the Police Department, and I feel like the community is getting there as
well.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for that. There's always a push
and a play between prosecuting and police. We arrested them, prosecution let
them go, or there was a problem with the case. Do you ever go back and kind of
troubleshoot those and say, "Hey, what happened; where did it go wrong, how can
we help the police understand what we need on the back end?" Do you have like,
you know, an informational session with them or document that's provided? I
mean I'm sure, you know, what are you doing for that?
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MR. WALTJEN: That's a great question. We touched on this briefly earlier. You
know, with having deputies assigned to the different specialized units there's just a
rapport with the deputy prosecutor and the assigned detectives from the unit. They
can work together, really open a line of communication and talk through, you
know, issues and concerns about cases.
You know, in the past,just exactly what you just mentioned, you know, there may
be a situation where the police were dissatisfied by a prosecutor's decision on a
case. What we have impressed upon our attorneys in our office is the importance
of, you know, reaching back to officers when there is a concern or an issue or what
happened or what made them, you know, come to the decision they did regarding
the filing of the charges. And as a result I think that improves our relationship
with the police department. But more importantly what that does for these
officers, it provides them a guideline and a point to move forward on and really
look at it from a perspective of, "Maybe I should've done this differently or that
differently," and really improve the overall quality of the types of investigations
that are coming in.
And you know, I just credit the officers, too, because now I feel like a lot of these
officers now feel comfortable to reach out and call a prosecutor and just having
that outlet to just be comfortable to talk to the prosecutor about, you know, what
happened with their case. So that's something that we really have tried to impress
upon our deputies and just our office in general.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Is that list provided to the public at all or the
neighborhood watches and community associations so that they too can understand
what builds a strong case when they're dealing with a, you know, disorderly
neighbor or, you know, someone who's been a continuous sore spot in the
community or,junk yards or, you know, drug houses. So I mean is there a way for
the community to understand that as well so it's not just—you don't have too
much of a chain of command where the because you know, the police are
understanding what you're needing but does the community itself understand what
it takes? A lot of times neighborhood watch groups come
MR. WALTJEN: Right.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: How to be a good witness? But in this case,
you know, how to set up a case so that's it's going to work out in your best interest
in the end?
MR. WALTJEN: You know, this is a great question. You know, I had one of our
special project coordinators had brought this to my attention some time ago, that
someone had brought this exact same, you know, "Oh, what can we do? How can
we help each other? How can we make a better case?" And well, this special
projects coordinator had pitched me as an idea was, "Hey, can we make some
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brochures? Can we do some online posts, maybe we can create something?" And
that's kind of what spearheaded the whole thing of getting a social media presence.
So that's one of the things that we're looking at, trying to do, as also providing that
type of informational assistance to the public about things that impact cases and
how we can get things done. So that's definitely something that we're working on.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, good. Good. Because I get questions
regarding that and along that line, and people always wanting to know what they
can do to help. Sometimes I don't know what to tell them. And I reached out to
your office, and you were waiting on your deputy prosecuting attorneys to come in
and begin serving districts. So that's always what's happening. Squatters, what's
going on with squatters in our district? That was another thing I reached out to
you earlier on.
MR. WALTJEN: Last week we met with myself, Deputy Prosecuting Attorney
Kevin Soong, and our Special Projects Coordinator Allan Bartolome met with
Captain Briski, Lieutenant Watanabe, and Community Policing Officer Eddy
Cardines. We had a really good talk story session. We discussed everything from
Seaview Kalapana Estates to Kehena. And one of the other things that we touched
on was the squatter issues. And I really think, you know, with squatters it's a
community problem. Often times it's civil in nature.
You know, I explained to Captain Briski, you know, that our office is here at the
table. We're willing to work with what we have available but, you know, my
suggestion was that if we could get members from the Corporation Counsel as well
as the Mayor's Office. And I think if we have those people, we have all those right
players at the table, I think we could actually make some headway and make some
lasting positive decisions. And maybe some of those decisions might be
something that where, you know, the Council can assist us in as far as, you know,
in your capacity. So I'm looking forward to meeting actually with all of you
regarding your different areas. But I think this is something that looks like it's
going to be happening really soon.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Talk to me about Kehena and Kalapana.
What was the outcome of that discussion? Because Kehena is a State facility with
a County parking lot, on a County maintained road. And you know, the
communities are back and forth. It's real split down the middle of what they want
to see. What did you guys discuss?
MR. WALTJEN: Right. So that's exactly what was explained to me and then,
you know, we had the opportunity to get down there and really see things.
Because one of the issues, I think, is exactly what you mentioned. It's jurisdiction.
State versus County, private, it's a number of concerns. But what seems to be the
overarching concern is just general crowd control
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Public safety.
MR. WALTJEN: Public safety. Those are the two things that seem to be larger
than the bigger issue at hand. And I think, in speaking with Captain Briski, you
know, what he described was, you know, this is not a situation with Seaview
Kalapana Estates, it's not a situation where you have 250 uncooperative,
disrespectful people who are combative with police. It's a situation where you
have a large group of people there's a number of them who are noncompliant,
with mask violations. So what the police have been doing is they've been going
down there, and they've been passing out masks and reminding people about
COVID restrictions.
So through our discussions what, I think, came to at the end of the discussions was
the next step is really having a sit down with Council, with the Mayor's Office,
and Corporation Counsel, as well as the Prosecutor's and Police, and seeing what
we can do as group to weigh out all the different options available and try to come
to some kind of decision as to what's the best course of action. Because it's like
you said, it's really split right down the middle.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It is.
MR. WALTJEN: So it's really trying to balance those interests and trying to come
to the best decision. So it's a tough one. I can't really tell you what's going to
happen. But all I can tell you is you're going to be getting a call soon.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. It was good to hear. Thank you
very much. Okay, I don't have any further questions. Mahalo for what you guys
do to keep our community safe. Thank you for being here today. Seeing no
further discussion from the Council, thank you for your time today.
MR. WALTJEN: Mahalo to you all for your time. Thank you.
MR. FRYE: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much. Okay, I'm going to
give everyone a—let's go with a ten-minute recess to go to the bathroom and do
your thing and we'll come back here and reconvene at 11:25 a.m.
Recess: At 11:16 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 11:29 a.m.
2) Department of Human Resources:
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Welcome back. I'm going to call this
meeting out of recess. Our next department for our Special Committee on Finance
is Human Resources. Thank you for being here today, Mr. Brilhante. PowerPoint
presentation or are you going to just present to the Council? Okay. Why don't
you go ahead and get started, introduce yourself. Thank you for pushing the
button on the mic. If you want, you can take your mask off. Okay, go ahead.
(Note: At this time, Director of Human Resources William Brilhante came
forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. BRILHANTE: Good morning. William Brilhante, Director of Department of
Human Resources. Thank you very much, Chair David and Committee Chair
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and the rest of the Council Members. Today following, you
know, I had a concern that the change between Mitch providing his presentation
for the prosecutors you know, my chair. Let me take a second here.
You know, with Kelden taking the place of providing the presentation for the
prosecutors as opposed to Mitch it would've been a much shorter presentation.
But I'm glad you guys didn't let me down. I hope you're all tired and you're
looking to get to lunch soon.
But anyway, again, you know, our department is a very small department, but we
have very dedicated and hardworking staff and they're very conscientious and
mindful, you know, from a fiscal standpoint. And we appreciate the guidance we
get from, Deanna, and the Finance Department as well as the Mayor's Office.
Today accompanying me here is our Administrative Services Division Manager,
Deeann Sadayasu. So thank you very much for coming here today with me as
show of support.
You know, like said, very small department. Our budget doesn't fluctuate much.
We're able to, you know, maintain status quo as much as possible with small
fluctuations up and down depending on the environment that presents itself. One
of the things we do, and I just wanted to touch upon is, when you look at the
overall budget of the County, you know, you look at the totality of it, it's $590
million. Out of that$590 million total, roughly approximately 65 percent of that
budget goes to salary and wages. And the reason I'm bringing that up is because
that's pretty much in your ballpark. It's in your strike zone. The departments,
they have no control. The department heads who come here and they present their
departmental budgets, the portion of their budget that remains fixed and they have
no control over is salary and wages. And the only time that issue gets addressed is
through the labor negotiations.
June 30'h of this year, this coming June, all of our collective bargaining units
expire. Every single one of them. Police, Fire, all of the HGEA (Hawai`i
Government Employees Association) units, as well as UPW (United Public
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Workers); every single one of them. We're in the process of negotiating those
contracts as we speak. The reason I'm bringing that up is because that's 65
percent of the County budget. And the ultimate decision makers regarding that,
the entity that has control over that portion of the budget is you. And the reason I
say that is because as we negotiate these contracts, it's a statewide negotiation.
The Governor has four votes, and each of the County jurisdictions have one vote.
So that's a total of eight votes; majority rules.
So when we enter into negotiations, one of two things are going to happen; either
we're able to find middle ground and we're able to settle and enter into an
agreement with the respective union going forward as to what the next contract
terms and conditions will be like, or we can't find an agreement and we go into
arbitration. And our arbitrator makes an independent determination as to what he
or she feels is the fairest and most appropriate issues with wages and the like.
At the end of the day, because of the way the votes are set up, the County of
Hawaii with our one vote doesn't have much say as to, you know, what the
ultimate outcome. We provide input. You know, I'm fortunate to be at the
meetings. We give our input, we give our concerns, we raise issues, and we raise
questions, and those items are discussed. But ultimately the Governor holds the
final power as to whether or not, you know, things go forward.
So with that, as these agreements are either entered into or they are set by our
arbitrator, each jurisdiction, pursuant to the HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes), each
jurisdiction whether it be the State Legislature, whether it be, you know, City and
County of Honolulu, Maui, Kauai, or ourselves, the various county councils need
to approve these contracts before they go into effect. So if any one of those
entities don't approve the proposed contract, pursuant to the statute, the HRS, that
matter goes back for additional negotiations.
So as it relates to that 65 percent of our County Operating Budget, it would be any
one of those, the entities that I discussed, any one of the jurisdictions can reject the
contract if they feel it's not fiscally sound. And then that matter goes back for
additional the entire contract goes back for additional negotiations. So with that,
you are the ultimate determinators of whether or not on these contracts, 65 percent
of the budget is, you know,properly addressed. Is it fiscally sound and is it
appropriate? And that lies on your feet. And I just wanted to say that as, you
know,just food for thought going forward for each of you.
With that, again, this is the cliff notes version of my presentation. I'm happy to
address, you know, any questions that any one of you may have in regard to our
specific budget.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Brilhante. I really
appreciate that cliff notes version. There is some truth to that. There's also an
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entire realm of politics that plays into that as well. But you really pointed of
something that's incredibly important which is, 65 percent of our budget is spoken
for from the minute we set it out. So thank you for saying that. Council Members,
who was first? Ladies first, Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Brilhante, thanks for being here. I just
had a couple of questions. You know, with COVID I'm sure there was a lot more
safety training, right, or need around that? And we've learned a lot of lessons.
And I'm asking that question because I know part of your department does like
training, right, fitting of masks, those kinds of things? Will we have to adjust a
little bit more around that training piece? You know, at the end of the day, you
know, my career actually started in the worker's comp division when I was
20 years old. And we would see so much of our funds kind of out the door
because of worker's comp. And, you know, an ounce of prevention, right,just
goes a long way. And so I just want to see how we can amplify maybe
frontloading some training so that we can actually save money on the back end
with worker's comp.
MR. BRILHANTE: Thank you very much. That's a really good question. That's
one of the areas that was going to be in my extended presentation that covered
worker's comp. You know, each year when I come, I think this is my fourth time
I'm giving a budget presentation for our department, you know, worker's comp is
an area of concern. And the reason for that is because we're self-insured in that
area. So every dollar we pay out is, you know, a dollar that comes from someplace
else within the County. You know, and that, to me, is problematic. I've felt for a
long time that division was kind of running on autopilot and not significant enough
efforts and energy and attention was being paid to it. And therefore, I felt, there
was an unreasonable large amount of money that was going out and it could've
been addressed.
Like you, Ms. Lee Loy, you indicated, I'm a strong believer in, "An ounce of
prevention is worth a pound of cure." And that's, you know, one of the areas that,
you know, I've been talking to my staff where, you know, there might be the
possibility of maybe a submittal of a supplementary budget, you know, requests
related to shoring up our Health and Safety Division. As you know, historically
well you may not know. But historically our Work Comp and our Health and
Safety worked together under one, you know, manager. And they supposedly
work together, you know, safety side, help offset the accident, you know, the
prevention side and the like.
But you know, one of the things we did was we separated the two. We found a
great manager for our Work Comp Division, Summer Tokihiro, and she's been
doing an outstanding job. One of the things, you know, for Work Comp
specifically that we've been, you know, paying a lot of attention to is closing
cases. And the reason that's so significant is as a case, you know, remains open it
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stays on the books so we continue to pay salaries and continue to pay all these, you
know, secondary expenses related to the case, as opposed to when you address a
case you get the employee rated and you come up with a solid, you know,
groundwork, you know, game plan as to how we're going to best address the
injury and the treatment. Then, you know, that case gets closed, and we can close
the dollar figure, hopefully on, you know, some of that.
So it's imperative that we close cases. The negative of that is that because we're
closing more cases there's more upfront costs associated with that, of closing the
case as opposed to, you know, letting it linger. So we're closing more cases.
That's one way of addressing the problem.
The second way of addressing the problem is to provide more safety training, you
know, whether it be for employees or more safety inspections for our facilities.
And you know, those are the two areas in which I really want to put, you know,
greater emphasis in moving forward. And, you know, addressing that situation. I
think with that, hopefully, the outcome would be reduction of accidents, you know,
and the like, moving forward. And then we'll start realizing savings, you know, in
that regard as well.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you for that, because I noticed in your six-month progress
report there's a highlight of health and safety, safety inspections for seven County
facilities. Is that the program that we're trying to address, right, looking at our
facilities and identifying areas of risk, right, and minimizing that risk? Is that
accurate?
MR. BRILHANTE: That's exactly on point. Yes. It's seven, I want it to be up to
twenty.
MS. LEE LOY: And here's why, because we had a very protracted discussion
with DPW (Department of Public Works) having a needs assessment of their
failing assets. And I think if we use your department with this health and safety
and helping them identify that, along with, you know,just a fair, good, poor rating
of the facility itself, I think we get to a better metrics on how we amplify the
dollars.
MR. BRILHANTE: Exactly. I agree.
MS. LEE LOY: Perfect. One other thing is your ADA (Americans with
Disabilities Act) Coordinator, that's housed in your department, correct?
MR. BRILHANTE: That's correct.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. When did that individual start? Because we're seeing a lot
of upgrades to our facility for ADA compliance and I'm actually getting some
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concerns around our beach parks and making them available. Share with me a
little bit about that role and how we can maybe have that particular individual in
various stakeholder conversations so we can actually get our park facilities or any
facility to a place that is kind of universal design.
MR. BRILHANTE: We had a position like that, the ADA Coordinator position for
over a decade. It was originally housed in the Mayor's Office but under Mike Ben
the position was transferred to HR. And, you know, some of you may be familiar
with Teri Spinola-Campbell. She was our long time ADA Coordinator. Currently
we have Tasha Hoggatt, who is our ADA Coordinator. She came from the State of
Washington where she served in a similar capacity. She's been doing an
outstanding job.
One of the issues that you're referring to is our—Ms. Hazel. And, you know,
that's a very delicate situation you're dealing with, not just a delicate situation, but
you're dealing with a delicate individual. And she has to be handled carefully and
respectfully. And I think Tasha has been doing a great job with her. We have
engaged our ADA Coordinator in those discussions, so she's been meeting
regularly with the individual, you know, in addressing her concerns. And actually
the MD (Managing Director), and the Parks Director, and you know, the Head
Planner and myself have been, you know, regularly meeting with that individual
and we're trying to address the problem. It's a very unique and, you know, it's not
just a simple yes and no answer. Because as you know, when it comes to our
beach parks the County only owns the property up to the high-water mark. And
then after that, it's state land.
You know, and when you're talking about installation of railings and access to the
water, you're actually talking about access through the State land. And that's the
problem we're have is the primary responsibility is the State. But, you know,
trying to serve our citizens, trying to serve our populations, our constituents, you
know, we're trying to figure out a way in which we can come up with some type of
plan that will help address that issue.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. And, you know, she makes great points because actually
some of the lessons learned there we can actually apply and use it in just even a
gym or, you know, other things because she's looking out for the elderly
community. But we can't forget about our disability community. And so,just
some of those, like I said, universal designs but also the jurisdictional issues. And
if we can crack through, right, that process and come up with a model, then we can
implement them all over because, you know, I might have some in my district, but
everybody has a beach park and maybe that can just become a model.
You touched on it a little bit, which is we're self-insured. You know, I know other
municipals, other jurisdictions aren't. And just wondering if you had some
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thoughts or pros and cons as to whether stepping away from self-insured is
something we could do and if there would be some cost benefits to that.
MR. BRILHANTE: You know, that's exactly what came to mind, you know,
based on your question is that cost-benefit analysis is, you know, when you're
dealing with insurance premiums are always a factor. You know, as we relate it to
the size of our County, the amount of individuals we have within our workforce,
that's pretty significant. Not only that, we're talking Police, Fire, you know,
Public Works, we're talking some job titles that are very, very hazardous, you
know,just in itself, you know, as you go forward.
And I think, unfortunately, those types of jobs and those type of responsibilities for
the County make the insurance premiums incredibly high and unattractive. And I
think, you know, I'm sure Ms. Sako can probably speak better to this. But when
you do that cost benefit analysis, I think right now the seesaw is tipping, you
know, in favor of the self-insurance because, you know, once you get caught with
those high premiums, regardless if you have one claim or 100 claims, you know,
you're still stuck with those premiums. Whereas, with the self-insurance, if you
can develop mechanisms to reduce the cost aspect of the side, you know, the
amount going out, then that would be a benefit to the County in the long run.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, which makes that risk management piece even more
important, right, if we're going to stay self-insured? Okay.
MR. BRILHANTE: Exactly.
MS. LEE LOY: You know, I remember when we were going through our cabinet
appointees you mentioned a lot of the work that is related to JPR's (Job
Performance Review) and, you know,just handling people problems. Has that
number come down as far as grievance processes that you're having to deal with,
you know, through the Merit Appeals Board. You know, what's your temperature
there?
MR. BRILHANTE: It's really hard to say, you know, to really pinpoint without
actually looking at the specific numbers. I will say this, we have initiated a
process already. As a matter of fact, yesterday my Labor Relations Manager had a
County-wide meeting with all the HR reps, you know, throughout the County to
specifically address the revisions to the JPR so that we could come up with a
uniform process, uniform criteria, and uniform outcomes and in the hopes that
would make it a more understandable and palatable process. Not just to the
managers for them to follow as they rate their employees but for the employees to
understand so that they feel they're being treated fairly, they're being treated
equally, no different than any other employee. You know, and from my standpoint
that's the best we can hope for.
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So we started that process. The discussion started yesterday in the meeting.
Ms. Noda met with, she had two sessions yesterday with the HR reps County-wide.
And that's a process going forward. As to the number of grievances, I can just
speak to, you know, what I see. And, you know, I think right now if I were to
capture the number, those results would be a little skewed because we're seeing
quite a bit of issues that were specifically related to COVID. And you know, so I
don't want to say, "Yes." I can't say yes, I can't say no. I think overall in general,
my sense is that there's less grievances being filed. I know for sure there's been
less hearings at the MAB (Merit Appeals Board), you know, especially as it relates
to our permanent employees. The two most recent, you know, Merit Appeals Board
hearings that we've had involved non-selection of, you know, the regular public
applying for jobs. And so I haven't really seen the quantity of, you know,
complaints or grievances associated with labor relations.
We took a real proactive view and as it relates to labor issues, you know, and our
staff has, you know, we've been communicating much more frequently. I meet
weekly with my Labor Relations Manager, and we address all the issues that come
up. And if possible I try to have discussions with the union, you know, business
managers. You know, Scott Cullins has been a tremendous person to work with.
He's been, you know, really reasonable and, you know, I really enjoy working
with him. And that's HGEA. That's our largest group of workers. You know, so
I appreciate that, and I think as long as we maintain those relationships going
forward,positive relationships, and we make it less adversarial and more
cooperative, I think in the long run we'll be much better off, you know, from a
labor relations standpoint.
You're not going to you know, when it comes to negotiations or when it comes
to, you know, reaching agreements, you're not going to always get 100 percent of
what you want. But hopefully you get enough of what you want where it's
palatable. It's, you know, we can accept it. And that's my approach. And you
know, under the HRS, I'm tasked specifically as the Human Resources Director, to
maintain harmonious labor relations with the various unions. And you know, I
enjoy that aspect of my job. So thank you.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. Thank you. You're doing an excellent job. I know, a
number of attorneys would say, that's the art of compromise. It's when everybody
doesn't get what they want, they just get what they need. Thank you for that
insight especially around our self-insured piece but highlighting the need for more
training up front and risk management up front. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Richards, go
ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: Thanks, Chair. Thanks, Bill, Director. Now I'll call you Bill.
And I think to your point to paraphrase, you said two-thirds of our expenditures
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with the County are related to payroll, salaries and wages. And that, did you say
all bargaining units are coming up for renegotiation?
MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. You know, the perfect storm. All ten units.
MR. RICHARDS: And when does the contract expire?
MR. BRILHANTE: June 30'h of this year.
MR. RICHARDS: Peachy.
MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah.
MR. RICHARDS: So given that and given that you're sitting at the table, you
know, I fully appreciate County Government is people taking care of the needs of
our communities and that going forward, we'll work on the compensation
packages going forward. That being said, it's kind of a weird year. Is there
indications of what we're going to do right now? Because we're looking at the
budget. We're trying to figure out where we're going to go. We have a proposed
budget. But if all collective bargaining units are coming before us, we may be off
base. We're trying to get a handle around that. Any thoughts or comments on
that? And you know, historically we've seen like a three or five percent increase.
Is there something we can think about as we go forward?
MR. BRILHANTE: You know, that's a very good question. You know,
unfortunately because of confidentiality concerns, I'm not at liberty to address the
specific proposals that are on the table right now. We are in active negotiation.
The County's position, and all of the other jurisdictions are in unison, is our zero
percent raises, status quo going forward. And I think, you know, we're pretty
steadfast on that. There's been some discussion about reduction but, you know,
again that's not confirmed or specified. But worse-case scenario is, our top line is
status quo going forward.
There will be some cost increases which are just out of our hands as it relates to
health insurance. You know, as you know, the employer provides a percentage of,
you know, the monthly coverage for premiums for our employees, and that's going
up. We've already, you know, received—it's going up. Some minimal increases
as relates to that. So historically the employer bears some of that burden as well as
the employee, you know, those small items, the minimus items are going to be
addressed.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Thank you. And just touching on what Ms. Lee Loy
talked about, the worker's comp. Like she said, Fire, Police, I'm very familiar
with, cowboys—very high-risk jobs and finding the worker's comp to cover that. I
can appreciate the fact that if we're a big enough entity, self-insurance may
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actually work for you. But that's why we ended up with HEMIC (Hawai`i
Employers' Mutual Insurance Company) because we couldn't get the worker's
comp coverage.
And again,just to verify, your expectation that, that doesn't appear to be changing,
we're pretty much taking care of the needs and you don't see much change in that
cost to the County going forward?
MR. BRILHANTE: That would be my opinion, going forward, yeah.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And again, grant this isyou're the closest one with the
finger on the pulse of that. And as we are trying to figure out how to predict going
forward for our financials next year, that's why we have these meetings. So
thanks, Bill. I appreciate all those answers. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Kona? Rebecca?
MS. DAVID: Yes. Sorry, Chair. This is Maile.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Hi, Maile. Go ahead.
MS. DAVID: Yes, hi. Good morning, Director Brilhante. Thanks for being here.
Thanks for your explanation. As always, very detailed and comprehensive. I just
have one follow up question regarding the negotiations that you just spoke of. If
for some reason the status quo scenario survives, what would be the term for the
status quo? Is it an annual thing or would it extend further than a year?
MR. BRILHANTE: Thank you very much, Chair David. The current proposals
on the table for duration of these contracts are 4 years. But historically when we
come into a, when we're, you know, historically what has happened is when we're
in uncertain economic times like we are nowI think the newspaper described it
as precarious. To me, that's optimistic. But you know, when it's uncertainty,
generally we enter into two-year agreements so that nobody really gets hurt, you
know, in the long run. You know, and so like I said, right now the proposal on the
table is four years but it could be a two-year agreement.
MS. DAVID: I see. Well thank you for that because that pretty much tells me that
there is thought into being compromising in this situation given the COVID issues
and all that. So thank you for that, Director. And I yield. Thank you, Chair.
MR. BRILHANTE: You're welcome.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. David. Ms. Villegas, go
ahead.
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MS. VILLEGAS: Yes. Thank you for being here, Mr. Brilhante, and for your
just really transparent and bold statements as you started your presentation. I just
had a couple of questions about that so that I could understand better. One of the
first things that you said was that we should fire somebody. Can you explain
better who that is and just kind of what you meant and how to navigate that?
MR. BRILHANTE: I'm just reflecting back. Often times I say things that I don't
recall saying. But I think that's not a comment that I made. I'm not sure what you
may be referencing. I don't think we should fire anybody.
MS. VILLEGAS: No, no, no. I meant you were talking about it in the negotiating
of union contracts. I thought that you said something, it comes to us, and we
should, what I gathered, was something about firing somebody who does the
negotiating for our municipality, for our County and perhaps I misunderstood what
you were trying to say.
MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. I hope I didn't say that because that would mean I'd
be firing myself.
MS. VILLEGAS: Sorry. Thank you for that.
MR. BRILHANTE: I'm hoping for a little more job security than that.
MS. VILLEGAS: I think you're doing just fine. I think you're probably you're
right in there. So for a better understanding, who currently represents us at the
table when we go into those negotiations?
MR. BRILHANTE: Right now it's currently me. And that's pretty much the
assignment for all the jurisdictions. Each of the HR Directors represent their
respective County. And then the Governor has his own HR Director, Ryker Wada,
who represents the State entities.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. So then he gets four and we get one, each County gets
one, correct?
MR. BRILHANTE: That's correct.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. So, and if I got your suggestion correct, you
recommended that if there are, I mean there's extenuating circumstances right now
because it looks like we're going into freezes of any kind of raises, which I'm
grateful to hear. But as you were talking when you first presented to us today, you
recognized that over 60 percent of our County budget is already allocated, and we
don't have control over based on these negotiations that happen with bargaining
units. And you said that the power then resides with us to approve or not approve
it. And it sounded to me like one of your recommendations was if it comes back
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as too much and puts undo pressure on our County budget, that the
recommendation would be to send it back, to deny it?
MR. BRILHANTE: Maybe I misspoke. What I meant to say was that as the
contracts come back to us and to you for ratification, I would ask that, you know,
what I was just putting on the table was that you provide, you know, the proper
scrutiny and you give it the proper review, and make a determination as to whether
or not the contract itself is fiscally sound, if it's reasonable, and if it's something
that the County can afford going forward. And if you feel that it is, then that's
great. You know, that's what you're supposed to do, you ratify it. If you feel that
there's concern and there's some issues that maybe need to be, you know, vetted a
little greater, then what I was putting on the table was you have that power. You
know, and that's all I tried to communicate.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Thank you for helping me clarify that because that is
part of the message that I got. And I'm grateful for that because kind of the prior
belief system that I had been operating under and had been implied was that, you
know, it is what it is and we get what we get, and we don't really have—well in
theory we could not ratify it, then it just goes back and it just continues to go round
and round. But it sounds like you're saying we actually do have a little more and it
does behoove us. Because I, you know, consistently hear frustrations with so
much of our budget being wrapped up in the salaries and wages and these
contracts.
So I just want to thank you for kind of pointing that out again, and it sounds like
encouraging us to reclaim that possibility and that authority to hold bargaining
units accountable for what is actually feasible for our County budgets to sustain
when it comes to this amount of money. Because it's definitely really challenging
when so much of it is already, it's already taken before our departments really have
a chance to present what their needs are.
So thanks for expressing that and encouraging us to diligently and boldly take
those initiatives. And as we get closer to the summer months and the expiration of
these contracts it will be very interesting to navigate that process. And I'm hopeful
that you would be open to myself reaching out to you for some guidance and your
perspective on what is actually feasible and reasonable for County budgets to
support and sustain.
MR. BRILHANTE: I just want to be clear. I'm not advocating for you to, you
know, deny the contracts as they come forward to reject them. I'm just asking that
we vet it, you know, closely and we make a reasonable, rational decision as to the
fairness of the contracts as they come forward. So I'm not advocating to reject
them.
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MS. VILLEGAS: No,just to vet them more effectively, efficiently, and with a
keener eye. And I look forward to relying on your expertise and experience as that
opportunity presents itself in the coming months. And with that, I yield.
MR. BRILHANTE: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Ms. Kierkiewicz,
go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Aloha, Director Brilhante. Great to see
you. I wanted to elevate something from a conversation we had about a week or so
ago related to some goals and objectives of your department. I hope I understood
what you were articulating correctly, so do correct me if I'm wrong here. But we
had talked about what is a way in which County government can operationalize the
themes of equity and inclusion in sort of our decision making. And I was excited
because you said that was actually one of the goals that you had for your
department this year. So just wanted to provide you a platform to sort of explain to
my colleagues what that might look like and how we can help you.
MR. BRILHANTE: You know, thank you very much, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Yes, that
is one of my goals. Each year I'm required to provide goals to the MAB as it
relates to my annual review for my job performance.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Sorry. And the MAB is the Merit Appeals Board?
MR. BRILHANTE: Merit Appeals Board, right. They are the entity that oversees,
you know, evaluates my job performance on an annual basis. So this year one of
my three goals that I articulated was the recognition and the, you know, the
mindset of including and being proactive as it relates to equity and inclusion. You
know, that seems to be a hot-button topic nationwide. You know, I think, you
know, Minneapolis is seeing it right now with their police officers and, you know,
the protestors. And it's really unfortunate that a situation like that has developed,
you know, that polarization between the community and the police. And that's
something I would hate to see here.
You know, part of that discussion was, you know, took place this morning with
Prosecutor Waltjen. And, you know, I appreciate his response, you know, to a
similar question as well and, you know, I support his response. And I think we are
really fortunate in Hawaii that we live in such a diverse, you know, we have such
a diverse population and, you know, we interact, and race is not a predominant
factor as it relates to our daily activities, you know, and the perception is it's not.
And I would just hate for anything negatively to impact that, you know, going
forward. And so that's why we proposed this.
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I engaged the services of, again, our EOO, Equal Opportunity Officer and ADA
Coordinator, Tasha. And you know, we brought her in and we're, you know, in
the process of developing policies. And by policies is, it's not rules. We're not
developing rules. What we're developing is trigger points so that, you know, we
can present it to our managers, we can present it to our workers, we can present it
to our people with the understanding that we recognize this, we're mindful of it.
We're not saying what we're doing is bad, we're not saying what we're doing is
wrong, we're just saying as we go forward, we want to continue to keep this, you
know, be mindful of these types of situations and,you know, address them
accordingly.
You know, one of the things I learned when I was with Lincoln Ashida is, when
there's a problem it's so much easier to address the problem when it's a weed as
opposed to when it's a huge albizia. Right now, I don't even think we have weeds.
But before we do get weeds, I want to start to address, you know, those type of
situations or issues. So that's what we're, you know, trying to accomplish going
forward with that issue.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That's really great. It's great to know that a guiding
framework is in the works. I think it's important for department heads and other
folks in leadership and just everyone in the County in general to keep these
concepts in mind because that helps us identify more equitable distribution of
resources and ensuring that we are getting to disenfranchise communities. So
thank you for your work on that. We'll stay in touch on it.
The other thing, I think you're not going to be surprised about me asking about this
one. But a couple budget cycles ago we did talk about an auditor report elevating
the need for a whistle blower program in our County. And I know that some work
was put aside in fiscal year 2019-2020 budget to make this happen. And we've
been reading what's happening on Oahu with the City and County of Honolulu
with what's happening in their, you know, Building Department. We're seeing
what's happening nationwide, allegations of sexual harassment. And so I'm just
curious if this budget is reflecting any investment in advancing a whistle blower
program. Just want to make sure our County employees and our community does
have this safe harbor in the event that they feel they're being taken advantage of,
or folks aren't acting in a professional manner.
MR. BRILHANTE: That's a very good point and a very good question. Thank
you very much. Again, I harken back to when we were initially looking at this
program, the whistle blower, it was in direct response to the Legislative Auditor's
report that come out where it identified some specific problems that were taking
place with departments and the Department of Human Resources as it relates to
hiring practices.
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You know, I came on board and I took a very proactive, you know, stance to that,
an aggressive stance, and you know, we changed a lot of our hiring practices.
Hopefully, we've changed them for the better where we eliminated, you know, the
possibility of, you know, those type of situations happening or even the perception
that, you know, that situation was happening again. Because, you know, often
time perception trumps reality. And I think as I've been in this job for over three
years, going on my fourth year, I'm hopeful and I have a strong sense that we've,
you know, started to gain the trust back from the employees as it related to hiring
practices. And so when we looked at the program, I think we've had discussions
with the previous administration and we also had some discussions with this
administration, you know, as to whether or not we have, you know, funds available
to allocate for that particular matter.
As it relates to my department right now, I'm not sure I can say we do. The
second, you know, aspect or, you know, item that we had to sit down and consider
was whether or not there was still the same type of need in place for the whistle
blower. During the pendency of this, you know, that audit till now the County has
upgraded its violence in the workplace policy and one of the components or
aspects of that policy is sexual harassment and we've made it clear now that if an
employee feels like they're being harassed, there's a mechanism in place. There's
a stated policy in place that they immediately report it, and the reporting manager
is mandated to, you know, report it to their supervisor and the matter doesn't get
swept under the rug. You know, it's directly addressed and it's investigated. And,
you know, that policy has been strengthened and, you know, I think, you know, I
haven't heard any negative input as it relates to that.
You know, if there is some employees that feel like, you know, they're
uncomfortable with it, you know, I'm more than happy to, you know, kind of sit
down and have those discussions. But I'm just going to put it on the table, I'm not
sure that, you know, if whether or not we were able to adequately address the
concerns that the whistle blower program would have put in place, if we were able
to address those issues now currently with, you know, the changes we made.
I haven't heard that same type of, you know, outcry for a whistle blower. When I
had discussions with City and County of Honolulu because they have a whistle
blower program, I think, correct me, I recall the person I spoke to said about 80
percent of their complaints had to do with potholes.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: With potholes. Yeah.
MR. BRILHANTE: So I'm not sure. And I'm not discrediting the 20 percent that,
you know, didn't deal with that.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Of course.
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MR. BRILHANTE: But I think now, you know, we have adequate safeguards in
place to address the 20 percent if they were to come up here in our County. So that
would be my response.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah. I mean I really appreciate all the work that's been
done to be very resourceful with the resources you have and create mechanisms
and frameworks to protect, you know, our workers and the community. I don't
want to take it off the table. You know, we're in the process of hiring a new
County Auditor,potentially. And maybe this is something they can investigate
and see if there is still a need for a program like this because fully understand that
we are under some significant budget constraints. But do see this as a worthwhile
investment. So thank you, again, for your expertise, Director. Chair, I yield.
MR. BRILHANTE: I appreciate that. I'll be happy to engage in that conversation.
Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Mr. Chung,
go ahead.
MR. CHUNG: Very briefly, Bill. I have to leave in a couple minutes. But, you
know, you said that our salary and wages take up 65 percent, right, of our total
budget?
MR. BRILHANTE: An estimate.
MR. CHUNG: Estimate, yeah. More or less. You know, yesterday Fire
Department came and said, unless I misheard and I've been known to do that, but
85 percent of their budget was devoted to salary and wages. Anybody hear the
same thing? Deanna, correct right, 85 percent? How do you explain you're a
former fireman, too, what's going on over there?
MR. BRILHANTE: You know, when it comes to public safety you're dealing
with a different entity. You know, public safety isn't a good to have, it's a must
have.
MR. CHUNG: Correct. They made that point yesterday.
MR. BRILHANTE: You know, whereas maybe HRs are good to have. You
know, we can, you know, but I'm being facetious. But there's some other avenues
that you could cut, and you know, the impacts on the public may be uncomfortable
but they're not, you know, life threatening.
MR. CHUNG: I'm just thinking though, what's the systemic differences between
Fire Department and maybe even Police, you know, I don't know what percentage
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of their total budget is devoted to salary and wages. But can you think of anything
that would explain that?
MR. BRILHANTE: I feel like I'm
MR. CHUNG: I'm just kind of wondering that's why.
MR. BRILHANTE: I feel like I'm a fish swimming in the pond and there's this
big bait in front of me. Am I going to grab it?
MR. CHUNG: No, no, no. I mean, I'm just curious. I really am. I really am.
MR. BRILHANTE: No. With that, I think, and Ms. Sako can correct me if I'm
wrong. I think a lot of that goes to two factors. One is, we have a huge island.
We have a huge island, and we have very diverse population base. So with that,
when it comes to public health and safety, response time is significant. You know,
if the ambulance is going to take a half hour to get to the scene of somebody who's
having a heart attack, that's significant. So I think what we need to do is we have
an ambulance in HOVE(Hawaiian Ocean View Estates), right, because just in
case. But the second part to your question is the fact that, you know, I think the
way the contract is written, and I'm not giving away any trade secrets with Fire,
and Ms. Sako can correct me, it relates with overtime. And the overtime is the
rank for rank provision with Fire which is specific only to Fire.
MR. CHUNG: Okay.
MR. BRILHANTE: And that means if a Fire Captain is not coming into work
MR. CHUNG: I think we've been over the rank for rank. So that's a plausible
explanation. I mean, the reason why I brought that up is I'm just wondering if
we're underfunding Fire in terms of the equipment that they need and other things.
You know, maybe we have to beef that up so that, you know, you can bring that
salary and wages a little bit more in line with what the rest of the County is. But
you made perfect sense, what you said, the rank for rank.
But now it gets me to another thing. You know, you brought up the matter about,
you know, whether we have the ability to vote against a negotiated agreement.
And I wanted to make this point because many years ago when I was first here,
you know, I was working on for a better part of about two years, a Charter
amendment. And I kept on going back and forth, back and forth, because, you
know, Charter amendments, this thing is going to be set in stone and you don't
want to make any missteps, right? I was working on a circuit breaker, you know,
for salary and wages. But then the more I thought about it—and that's why, you
know, this thing might be a red herring, you know, the percentage that we devote
to the overall budget. Because the County, as every other governmental entity is,
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it's a service organization. Therefore, for better or for worse, our most important
resource is or are, depending how you look at it, our employees. We're not getting
a profit; we're not profit driven. So we not taking that cut off. So we cannot use
businesses as the model. We have to look at nonprofits.
And I'm not saying that that's the only thing, because we have to see how things
fit into our budget. I'm not just only talking about percentages. But before we
start saying, "Hey, wait we're top heavy" in terms of salary in wages, we have to
really look and look at the comparables, yeah? And understand what our mission
is here. I just wanted to state that. But I have to go. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Ms. Kimball, go
ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. Thank you, Director, for being here today. I just
wanted to expound on the equity piece that Council Member Kierkiewicz
mentioned and ask a little bit about gender equity. This last year was the first year
that we've seen Hawaii actually increase in the wage gap between men and
women. And additionally with COVID, more women left the workforce because
of, you know, access to childcare. I myself have been watching the clock to see if
I'm going to have time to run home and get my kid so I can drop her off at school
before the next presentation. But what are some of the lessons learned particularly
with COVID and what are some efforts that you're putting in place to improve
gender equity within the County? Thank you.
MR. BRILHANTE: You know, fortunately for the County of Hawaii and the
other municipalities within the State, our salaries are set to specific classifications
of work. So irregardless if it's a male or a female doing the work, the salary is set.
And, you know, that is pretty much, you know, a parameter that we have to
comply with. Same with our Directors and Deputies, the salary commission, you
know, sets the salaries across the board irregardless of the gender.
With one of the things I'd like to see, or for me, has been very appreciative,
especially as a father with two daughters, is the fact that you look at the Office of
Corporation Counsel currently, you know, it's a very prestigious department, you
know, attorneys are highly regarded. You know, the public perception of them is,
you know, give or take, but for the most part the perception is somebody worked
hard to earn their law degree. And now we have a department where the Director,
the Deputy, you know, both of the division managers are all females. You know,
and I think that in itself speaks volumes as to where the County of Hawaii is and
where it is going forward.
I think your current administration is mindful of that. You look at the, you know,
the Mayor's staffing, a lot of that is, there is a lot of gender equity in that as well.
And I think for Hawaii County, I don't see this issue being as problematic as
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maybe in the private sector, again, because of the safeguards I articulated. Again,
like I said, if you disregard it and you put it aside, before you know it, it's going to
be a problem. So I think just continuing to be mindful of it and, you know, keep a
watch on it, I think, for us the best course of action going forward.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you for that. And the reason I bring it up in the context
today is just as you're entering into the negotiations, one of those things that I
think is valuable for those of us that are working moms or working parents is the
ability to do flextime and some of those expanded options. And when you were
introduced, Director, Deputy Director Lee Lord, you were introduced as a feminist.
And so I expect this administration to make some innovative steps in that regard.
But thank you for that and hopefully that will be part of the discussion with these
contract negotiations with the unions.
MR. BRILHANTE: Definitely. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Anyone else?
Okay. Your budget looks pretty good, Bill. I looked it over. Your overtime is
pretty much, I mean, you're pretty much status quo and you're real minimal
compared to other departments. I see you had some travel bumps as far as what
you're expecting in travel expenses and I'm going to attribute that to what's
coming up for your bargaining unit contract negotiations, unless you already are?
This is for 2021-2022. This would be next year though, correct?
MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. Fortunately, you know, we've been able to hold the
line on travel expenses, because so much of our interaction with the unions and
with the other directors have been through Zoom. But I think as the Governor is
going to loosen the restrictions, especially giving vaccinated individuals more,
greater latitude to travel. I think historically those meetings have been in person.
It's been, you know, these Zoom meetings have been somewhat problematic, you
know, for us because if one entity has a problem with their video camera, like we
had earlier this morning, then it shuts everything down. And when we negotiate
with the unions they usually have like, for example, UPW (United Public
Workers), they'll have about 30 members present, you know, all tied into the
Zoom communication line. So I think going forward that may be changing but I'm
trying to stay home as much as possible.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I'm asking because in 2019-2020,
you guys spent$7,600 on inter-island travel. Sorry, well on travel conferencing.
But 2021-2022, you're estimating about$20,000. It's about a$13,000 increase
there.
MR. BRILHANTE: And some of that is we're upgrading that to a certain extent
because although we're staying home and, you know, we've never traveled as
much as a department. To engage the expense associated with, you know, signing
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up for all the trainings that are offered, you know, all the certifications and all
those type of trainings as well as trainings as it relates to our recruitment program,
NeoGov, you know, and then the additional training, is that the EDEN? Those are,
you know, still ongoing and we're still having to pay for those going forward.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And, you know, temp check for the
administration, when you're talking about collective bargaining units, we have a
say. But that's after you've come back and you present us with the final, yeah?
So, I mean, what is the kind of temperature check from the current administration
on what they'd like to see come out of these agreements?
MR. BRILHANTE: You know, I think the fortunate, I think something that's, you
know, really beneficial to us is that, you know, both the employer and the
employees' group are really mindful of, you know, what the current environment is.
And, you know, the initial proposals that came from the unions have been
reasonable to a certain extent, not as reasonable to the point where we can say,
"Okay, we like that. Let's go forward." But, you know, we're not talking about
22 percent pay increases. Some of the proposals on the table are much less than that
single digit, you know, type issues. And I think the State is really engaged and
really involved with the collective bargaining right now, because I think they're in
such, not really dire but cautionary, you know, budgetary, you know, situation for
them. So they're taking a very proactive stance and a very proactive engagement in
the process. Whereas, historically, you know, the State, you know, they had a large
amount of money, you know, the State has much more money percentagewise than
the County. So, you know, the dollars and cents really wasn't, you know, as
significant to them as it may be for us here at Hawaii County. But I think that's
changed. I've noticed that change, you know, in that perception.
And, you know, those issues going forward, which is appreciated, Hawaii County
isn't the only jurisdiction claiming that we don't have any money. Now everybody
is, except Maui. I don't know why, what's up with Maui. But other than that,
yeah, so we appreciate that. I think the process had been much more civil. You
know, there's been discussion as it relates to, you know, more consideration given
to non-cost items, which you know is always good for both sides. You know, it's
the quality-of-life type items that we have those discussions.
So I think we're going to reach settlement with a lot of the unions. Unfortunately,
some will go to arbitration and once that happens our hands will kind of be tied
with that. It's somewhat outside of our control. One of the things that is an
advantage to us is that we're so late in the process right now, I'm not sure if you're
aware, but anytime the State employees, you know, they have to do contract
negotiations, the State Leg has to ratify the contract, you know,just like similar to
you. And as we get later in the year, the State Leg will be ending soon, so the
likelihood of any contracts coming up before the end of this fiscal year are
impossible. The only one who may is SHOPO (State of Hawaii Organization of
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Police Officers)because they don't have any State, you know,police officers.
Those are all County specific. And so they would be the only one who could ratify
or enter into a contract without the State Leg having to ratify it.
So, you know, with that it's giving us time. We have until the next legislative
session until we start looking at real changes to contracts. The bad part about that
is then when have to go back and do all the adjustments, you know, which we just
went through with the last round of contracts.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And again, four votes for the Counties,
including Oahu.
MR. BRILHANTE: Correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And then four votes for the State.
MR. BRILHANTE: For the Governor, correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So really unless we get buy-in from the
State, the County is just screwed?
MR. BRILHANTE: Unless the State gets one of the counties to buy in to them,
they're screwed. I guess just, yeah, you're correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Yeah, you explained that to me a
long time ago and I found that very interesting. Just to be real blunt, I mean, if you
ask the Council to say no to some of the bargaining units, not that you're asking
that but, you know, we mentioned it. You're basically looking at political suicide.
MR. BRILHANTE: You know, I understand that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's part of that game. I know you
understand that. But it's always been an interesting thing, is like you said, salary
and wages are 65 percent of our budget. Whatever is left is what we get to use for
projects, for beautification, or whatever it may be. So when you take the
$590 million budget and you shave off 65 percent, that's what you're left with to
play with. Not play with, that's not a good word. That's what you're left to build
out what people want; roads, parks, it puts us in a bad spot. So there's always that
back and forth. And it's something I saw first-hand during my first term. And I
saw the repercussions at the end of my first term, and it's very real. So that's why
I'm asking, you know, what that temperature check is across the Counties and in
our own administration because if you're asking the Council to do that, okay,
understood. But, I mean, you're going to have to supporteveryone's going to
have to work together to come to some kind of mutual agreement of what's best
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for the County and even the Counties, too. So I'm interested to see how this
progresses.
The way it was brought to me, and I think the best way to sum it all up is, looking
at where we sit financially as a State and as individual Counties, and looking at our
unemployment figures, and the state of our economy, and how many businesses
have closed and gone out of business, and just our state of the County right now is
this has to be a shared sacrifice going forward. It cannot just be, you know, you
guys deal with it and figure out how to pay for it. Everyone has to understand that
times is hard, and this is what you do when times are hard. And as a business
owner, if you don't have money in the bank, you cannot project out like a
government can. You make cuts on the spot, yeah? And that's always been
that's where a lot of businesses are right now. So in the government world, a little
bit different. But, I mean, we need these the bargaining units have to understand
what kind of position we're in and it's not just a one-way street. It has to be a real
solid negotiation this year.
MR. BRILHANTE: And, you know, quite honestly, I have sensed, you know,
that attitude with the unions. You know, like I said, with the proposals and with
some of the rhetoric that has been coming from them, and it's refreshing. It's
refreshing but then it's unfortunate that we have to go through this to reach that
point. You know, I wish we could've reached this point without having, you
know, this pandemic facilitating it or necessitating it. But I think it's a discussion
that has to be had. And I don't think it's just because of the pandemic, I think, you
know, as salaries and wages continue to increase, increase, increase, there's only
so much we can do as a County jurisdiction to offset that, you know, increased
expenditures. And I think if we just allow it to go unchecked, we're going to be in
a problem in the very near future.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I agree. Deanna, can you come up please?
I mean, following on this line of thought, and we've had this discussion before
and, you know, you say this a lot. But, I mean, Bill's last comment, you know,
given COVID, it's put us in an interesting position coming to our negotiations.
Without COVID, we'd be in the same spot looking at three to five percent
increases. But let's just say, COVID never happened and here we are. We come
into our negotiations this year, they come back and we end up with our normal set
of negotiations that we look at, and we approve them. If we did that this year and
next year, I mean, what are you looking at budget-wise? Because I think
ultimately, right now just give me an answer. What do you think, what do you
think?
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: You mean how would we fund it?
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MS. SAKO: Or what would be the total dollar impact?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Not so much the dollar impact, but I
mean
MS. SAKO: How would we fund it?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: If you could give me a good estimate, I'd
love to hear it.
MS. SAKO: Well we've been in this position before, where—maybe not for every
single bargaining unit but several might be, you know, coming up due in June, and
we're not far enough along to know the estimate. But Bill's right. Because we
know that the impact won't actually hit until the following fiscal year because the
State won't be able to approve it in time, it's very likely we're going to end up
with retro pay like we did this last time. So the impact is probably going to be the
year after. So because none of the counties are going to budget for pay increases,
you know, in the coming year. You know, I mean, it's not going to happen. You
know, nobody has the money to do it, except Maui. And you know, so it's just not
going to happen.
But, you know, we keep in touch with Bill, and as we go through this budget
process, if we suddenly become aware that something's changing or the tone is
changing, he's definitely going to keep us involved, you know, and let us know.
And so, we would budget accordingly.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Let's say that—
MS.
hatMS. SAKO: But let's say it's a different year
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Let's say it did happen, yeah.
MS. SAKO: It's a non-COVID year.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. Nothing happened. Business as
usual.
MS. SAKO: Then we would ask Bill for his best guess. But it really puts us at a
disadvantage at that point, because then the unions know what we can afford
because we had to put it in our budget. So, I mean, that's kind of the unfortunate
part. Once we stick it in the budget, the unions know what we can afford. But at
that point, you know, we have had to re-increase taxes to be able to do that as well.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's what I was wondering. Because, I
mean, that's where all these funds come from. Our revenue stream to pay for
salary and wages comes from, for the most part—
MS.
artMS. SAKO: Well General Fund is, you know, over 75 percent funded by real
property taxes
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Our general fund. So this year we're
squeaking by. I think actually the entire time I've been in Council, we have
squeaked by. And if we came in to look at increases again—and I understand,
everyone wants a raise. We all like raises. But when government cannot afford
the raise, it puts us in a real precarious position. That's really what I want to hear
from you. So basically, the public needs to understand, if we look at substantial
increases to our negotiations for our bargaining units, eventually there's a tax raise
that comes with that. So that has to be the understanding.
MS. SAKO: Right. But the public does understand because they also voted in the,
you know, addition to the disaster and emergency fund. So, you know, they do
have to realize that that means we have to find revenue from somewhere.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Some people understand. Some do not.
MS. SAKO: I wrote up an entire fiscal impact statement regarding this. I went
with every single Charter amendment, by the way. Just saying.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I've noticed, you know, a lot of people
don't followI mean, I have people on a thread right now talking about Driver's
Licensing and how inadequate it is right now. And they don't know that we
discussed it yesterday for almost two and a half hours.
MS. SAKO: They don't. And, you know, Steve reminded me that I forgot to say,
you know, the reason we're behind is the shutdown of the County for those couple
months, too. So, yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for that. Okay, well thank you.
And thank you for clarifying that. I think sometimes just making it really clear so
that everyone can be on the same page as far as where we sit as a government.
Expectations from the community is what we should be providing, what we can
provide given our tax base, and kind of the repercussions of things like bargain
unit contracts. So thank you for clarifying that. I appreciate it.
Bill, mahalo for your time. Do you have any closing comments or anything?
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MR. BRILHANTE: No. Just thank you very much for giving me this opportunity
to come and address you. I hope you guys have a good afternoon. And good luck
with the rest of your sessions.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Good. Okay, wonderful. See everyone back at 1:15 p.m. Mahalo. We're in
recess.
Recess: At 12:38 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 1:24 p.m.
(3) Department of Research and Development:
(Note: At this time, Research and Development Director Doug Adams, Deputy
Director Sulma Ghandi, and Business Manager Debra Funai came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Aloha and welcome back to the Special
Committee on Finance. Joining us right now, we have the Department of
Research and Development. Please introduce yourselves for the record, and then
we'll get started with your PowerPoint presentation.
MR. ADAMS: Great. Thank you very much, Chair. My name is Doug Adams.
I am the Director for the Department of Research and Development. I have with
me the Deputy Director, Doctor Sulma Ghandi. Then also on Zoom, we have our
Finance and HR (Human Resources) guru, Debra Funai. She's hoping that we
don't have to talk to her.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much. Thank you for
joining us today.
MR. ADAMS: Right. So let me just start, if I may, with our brief presentation.
Do I need to do anything or is it on? Right now it's just the title slide anyway.
(Note: At this time, Mr. Adams and Ms. Ghandi provided a PowerPoint
presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the
presentation, please see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file
in the Clerk's Office or navigate to the Council's video archives online
from the County's homepage at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A copy of the
PowerPoint is made a part of the record, see Comm. 103.2.)
MR. ADAMS: We're ready to take the questions.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo for that very succinct and precise
breakdown of your department. Who would like to go first? Anybody? Kona?
MR. INABA: Chair, Holeka.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mr. Inaba, go ahead.
MR. INABA: Thanks, Chair. Thank you, Director Adams and Deputy Ghandi. I
have a question first of all with regards to the ag section of your budget. This is
on page 38 of the black binder for everyone, 5161.22, subsection 115. This area
of the budget has a total of$264,600, and to me as I look through most of the
sections in your budget, I'm not super clear. I know you folks' kind gave an
overview, but what exactly are we doing to support and develop agriculture on
this island. That's question number one. And I did get a chance to read through
the narrative section, but if you can boil it down for us what are the concrete
things that we're doing to support and develop ag here.
MR. ADAMS: The answer is we don't have a lot of money to be able to do much
when it comes to creating more producers and diversity. We work with the
funding that we have. So obviously the Soil and Water Conversation District,
different funding than what's included here in the agriculture sector. That's
grading and grubbing work and setting that up so that the work can be done and is
a process for individual farmers so they don't always have to go through the
permitting process.
When it comes to creating diversity, we have through the innovation grant the
ability to fund up to $25,000 on prototypes and also innovative processes that
would then lead to the potential for producers to continue on if there is success. If
there's impact, if there's results that matter. We're not the Department of Ag, and
we're not USDA (United States Department of Agriculture). So that's where the
real funds are and that's where the real bang for the buck can come.
Our ability has to do with, you know, we're working on invasive species, so
there's work that we do with that. We work with CTAHR (University of Hawaii
College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources) in a collaborative way, as
well. Some of the things that they do, both in their extension agent as well as the
education side of things. Then we have opportunities occasionally, depending on
the availability of funds and the projects that come in. If the projects meet the
innovation and the equity elements and everything else works out, then there's
potential for them to be chosen. Again, this is a competitive process. But it does
need to be innovation.
So we can help, but it is limited as we heard in the listening sessions, and as you
already know, Council Member, land and water and energy are huge elements to
this. So our ability to support agricultural diversity, food security, all those things
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that we consider really, really important, isn't going to be just tied to the small
amount of funding that we have here.
MR. INABA: Thank you. Obviously, we have constraints across all of the
departments right now. Are you folks working with other organizations like
Kamehameha Schools, who have initiatives like the `Rina Ulu programs
throughout the State? For sure we have them here on Hawaii Island, to kind of
develop the ag sector here.
MR. ADAMS: So most of the work that we've done on there—and it is possible
that our Agricultural Specialist Glenn Sako is going to tell me, "You shouldn't
have said that we are doing that." But largely, it is in our food system and food
access work that we have been seeing those kinds of connections being made.
Obviously, Glenn knows everybody and everybody knows Glenn, so the
conversations that they are able to have across and in collaboration with a variety
of landholders, you know, that's terrific as far as it goes, but for the most part,
because we just don't have a lot of money to be able to throw at these problems,
they're primarily collaborative conversations.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. Next question, tourism promotion. Here in the
narrative section of the budget, you have two points under tourism. It says, "It's
compatible with historic and natural resources and not intrusive into local
communities." The second is that"It helps to strengthen community,private and
public partnerships to build resilient and sustainable communities." I would say
that's exactly opposite of what we've seen over the course of the last year. With
$459,000 dedicated towards Tourism Promotion and Miscellaneous Contract
Services, I'm a little concerned when the total department budget is $2.6 million.
I know it has been higher in the past but is this a smart way for us to be spending
money when we just understand that there's not enough money in ag, which is
something that our community needs, and our farmers need support. We know
tourism is making its way back already, so can you explain these three line items
here under Tourism Promotion in a simple and concise way?
MR. ADAMS: Well you've talked to me before, Council Member. I'm not sure
that I'm necessarily concise all the time. I think the way to understand it from our
perspective is that 2020 of course was an anomaly in a variety of ways. Not the
least of which is that we did take a hit on the visitor industry. That obviously
meant that many of the workers that we have that have their livelihood depending
on that industry also took a hit. So when I take a look at the difference between
our agricultural and our visitor industry, I do have to take a look at the number of
workers that are in both of those industries.
Now this is not to say that one is more important than the other, because all of
these sectors are important if you're going to be able to optimize an economy,
which is what we're looking to do. The focus of supporting our visitor industry
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and thereby our workforce, that's part of the funding that's here. In addition, we
know that we add back in 2019, we were up to a million and a half visitors a
year, and the ability to make sure that those visitors are doing what we want them
to do and not acting in a way that is not appropriate not appropriate when it
comes to regenerative tourism, when it comes to being respectful of the `aina and
the residents here. Yeah, there is some funding that's necessary to make sure that
we work through all the issues. It's not just tourism, it's also landowners, it's
government, it's our farmers, and it's our cultural and historic significant sites.
All of those places that we know are important and that people want to see,
making sure that we are developing some way to do that, that is actually
supportive of the island and not taking away from it
MR. INABA: Thank you. In the interest of time, Director, sorry. I hear where
you're coming from, and is it possible to get a further breakdown of this section
on exactly where Tourism Promotion, Marketing and Promotion, and these
contract projects are going so we can understand where $460,000 is being spent?
Because I hear you, but—
MR.
utMR. ADAMS: We can do that for the current year. We obviously can't do that
for 2021-22, because that's an RFP (Request for Proposals) item. So we're
waiting on proposals before the funds can be delivered.
MR. INABA: Thank you, and I know thank you to the two of you, and you've
been here only a few months as have L But if we're talking about how tourists
are acting and whether they're respecting, I think I can speak for my community,
the mana`o is they are not being respectful. So to know that these funds have
been allocated to this section for so long, it's a little concerning to not ask, if I
don't ask questions about how these funds are being spent. So I'm going to yield
for now for any of my colleagues to ask further questions. Mahalo, Director and
Deputy Director.
MR. ADAMS: Thank you, Council Member.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Mr. Richards, go
ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Thanks, Director and Deputy. Good to see
you guys. You touched on it, Doug, is agriculture. And you and I have talked
about this. Going forward, a little bit of what Mr. Inaba was talking about too,
and I think we'll probably all be talking about this, research and development.
You have the research side, but then development. You just stated the big funds
for development are really going to be funded by outside this County, because if
we're truly going to move the needle, that's not something that's going to come
out of R&D. But maybe grant writing will. So first question is where are we with
grant writers for R&D? What are we doing there?
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MR. ADAMS: So Mr. Richards, it's not just in R&D. It's got to be for the
County. We have grant writing capability, but that isn't necessarily a mission that
has been part and parcel of the funding, right? We haven't necessarily gone out
of R&D to find money for R&D. We have had the opportunity occasionally to
find funds for other departments and that's been terrific when that happens. So to
get to your point yes, the idea is—it's more than an idea there's a project that
we are in the initial stages of working on that will set up a grant writing capacity
here in the County. Part of that involves the other departments as well, and their
ability to provide support for that with individuals that know those departments.
Part of this is technical training. Part of this also, as the Deputy is familiar with,
involves structure. For example, the University of Hawaii at Hilo or the
University of Hawaii system, they have an entire organization called RCUH (The
Research Corporation of the University of Hawai`i), that actually runs the
technical aspects of the processes of grants for the individuals that are a part of
the University. That's because procurement's tough. So our ability to—we have
to take a look at how do we structure ourselves so we're efficient and thereby
effective in both looking for and working on getting these grants.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, because this is something that I've think we've talked
about, grant writers as an initiative, as long as I've been sitting on Council.
MR. ADAMS: If I may, briefly?
MR. RICHARDS: Please.
MR. ADAMS: So it's not just a matter the clich6 "it's not a matter of throwing
money at it," it's also not a matter of throwing people at it, right? Part of this is
because the understanding of what the need is in the departments' matters, we
have to make sure that we're doing this in connection with the departments and at
the same time, this just takes time. The Health Literacy grant itself for example.
Just as an example, it started from scratch, it was understood we had to do it, they
had to work the collaborations associated with doing that because there were
specific requirements that whoever's providing the funding has. So you have to
work through that as well. So I don't want to say that we're not working on it,
because it is a this is vital because I heard the conversation that we had early
about finances and where funding is coming from. We have to find other ways to
fund projects that are really important here, and some of it can be really big
money and some of it can be prototype-related types of grants. To be good at it,
to be efficient at it, we have to develop a structure that allows us to do that.
MR. RICHARDS: I agree with everything that you have said there. I've been
thinking about this going forward. How are we going to make that shift—or I
guess the trendy term is pivot, right? We have this initiative in the County,
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actually in the State, to be zero fossil fuel by 2050-2045, cesspools are 2050. In
order to get there, you know, you just talked about grants for basically proof of
concept more than anything else. One of the things we're dealing with, the buses,
we met on Monday discussing that, getting that forward, but now we've actually
gotten to the implementation portion.
Part of the Sustainability Summit talked about food self-reliance. I don't like the
term "sustainability," I like it"self-reliance." But in order to get there, we're
going to have to do something bold, something big, to actually make a difference.
I think this you know you touched on the fact of infrastructure for water, land,
energy, all of that is very important in agriculture and we have to structure going
forward. I believe there's a lot of funding available through Rural Development
funds if we go after that.
I met a young woman who was a grant writer, and we were talking about our ag
employees. One of the problems we have with our agriculture is we don't have
migrant labor because of geography. I mean we do, but we don't. So we kicked
around the concept of what if we had migrant crops. Meaning we have the same
workforce picking different crops at different times of year. But in order to get
there, we're going to have to start that. I think that's where government can come
in to help stand that up, whether it's a cooperative or whatever the case may be.
MR. ADAMS: It's also affordable housing.
MR. RICHARDS: Well housing is part of all of this, right. And so, but we have
to like I said, think bigger about this. For food self-reliance, we're going to have
to be able to value add. But that will also build the economy of agriculture.
MR. ADAMS: It would. Obviously, we're not going to get into philosophical
because this is a budget meeting, but as you know, it's not just about value-added
or high profit margin crops, because that doesn't build us food security.
MR. RICHARDS: No.
MR. ADAMS: Right. Those are important because it helps agriculture as a
whole in the economy of agriculture, but when you're talking food security,
you're talking about the ability that you're producing the kind of crops and other
types of ranching products that allow us if the need came, we could sustain
ourselves.
MR. RICHARDS: Correct.
MR. ADAMS: But those are not necessarily high profit margin either.
MR. RICHARDS: No.
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MR. ADAMS: So we're trying to figure out what's the balance here.
MR. RICHARDS: And it is a balance. To what Mr. Inaba's concerns were, I
believe there's a future as we redesign our economy, we tie in tourism with
agriculture. Because we've got poor public policy, because people aren't going to
understand agriculture. So going forward, I'm glad I'm hearing building this
grant writing thing. The question is though, do you have enough resources to
develop that project going forward? I'm kind of looking at both Deputy and
Director, because we're going to have to do something up front to get it going.
We've done a lot of research, there's a lot of things that R&D have put out, but
now we've got to jump at them. One example is the sharwill avocado. That
financially is a really good deal, but we have to go after it. So how do we support
you to help go after the big funds, and I'm thinking it's supporting this grant
proj ect.
MR. ADAMS: That's part of the way. Obviously—we've had the conversation
about the way forward. Part of the way you help us is what you're doing right
now, which is keeping our feet to the fire, right? When it comes to the
development of structure and what that looks like from a financial perspective,
we're not ready to tell you that yet, because we don't know. So it would not be
really good for me to say this is how much I need, because that's just not how that
works properly.
We do need to figure that out, and the other part of this is, is the best way to do
this structurally, or is there a more innovative approach to our grant writing. Do
we have to hire our grant writers so that they are a part of the County or can we
use outside professional services to do this work. So these are all questions that
we need to address and do it quickly because we need the funding. And the
other piece of this is if we do decide that we want grant writers inside, then they
probably need to pay for themselves. So it shouldn't be you that's necessarily
saying, "Here's some additional money to figure it out." They should be able to
pay for themselves.
MR. RICHARDS: I like that. It's easier on our budgets. But also, they're also
bringing their own network when they come in. So I like that perspective. And
we can have the same conversation when we're talking about agriculture, energy,
water, tourism, whatever, because it's the same concept, how do we build the
capacity going forward.
MR. ADAMS: That's right.
MR. RICHARDS: So we could keep going, but I'm going yield, Chair, because I
thinkI like the direction this conversation is going and obviously we've got a
lot more do discuss on this. But I'm going to yield. Thanks.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms.
Kierkiewicz, go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Director, Deputy, it's great
to see you and mahalo for your support of the Job Corps program resolution.
Putting R&D to work with Office of Housing was very intentional. I think the
work that you do with mutually reinforcing when we have a robust economy, we
also need to ensure that our residents have access to safe affordable housing.
Really, housing our kids can afford. So thank you.
And just so folks are aware, HB 1176 (House Bill), which I got Rep. Sean
Quinlan to work with me to introduce on the State level has advanced and is
going to be going to Conference. So really, really excited and hopeful, optimistic,
about the opportunity of getting funding to our County to support that program
and really grow it.
MR. ADAMS: If I may, congratulations. That's terrific. Also, we've been really
happy to work with the Kilauea Recovery Team as well. Obviously, we work
with them pretty well anyway, being collocated. But their efforts in support of
this entire process of developing these pilots and ultimately hopefully some type
of program, really, really good.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. There's so much work that your department is
doing. I see it as the crown jewel of our County. Because there is so much work,
it's very overwhelming for the community to really understand what you're
doing. It would be really helpful if we could have you identify for us one to three
priority projects each of your divisions or economic specialists are working on.
Sulma knows this term, we're very familiar with the concept of"smallify." We
have these big audacious goals, and you're setting these objectives and key results
that folks are meeting. I love having goals, but if there is no deadline, no timeline
to act, it just sort of lingers. Then people really lose hope and momentum in
engaging in the process. So if we could get that from you it would be incredibly
helpful so that we know where you're trying to lead this County in the next four
years.
MR. ADAMS: So if I may, Council Member. You know the way RFP's work,
right? And that's where our funds go is through that process. So part of this is
dependent on the folks that decide that they're going to go after these funds. And
we are able to identify those that meet the requirements that we've established as
a part of the, you know, the RFP, then absolutely we'd love to be able to tell you
what those are.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, keep in touch. And I want to build up a little bit on
what Council Member Inaba pointed out with tourism. Frecia has done an
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excellent job in bringing forth the Pono Place making project. Engaging
communities around the island to elevate the stories of their wahi pana. We need
to find ways to fund their work. This is so that as we see more visitors coming to
our island, they are approaching our sacred spaces with the right mindset. There
are protocols, so we want to make sure community is in the driver's seat in
designing these programs. Interpretative signage; that experience, so people are
coming from a place of aloha when they visit.
MR. ADAMS: Message received.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. Really appreciate the work that you're
doing, Deputy, around mental health. I'm just wondering if you folks are taking a
look at some of the work that was funded through CARES Act. Captain Stacy
Domingo, Fire Department, worked really hard to design a mental health first aid
certification process. So just want to make sure that you folks are connecting.
MS. GHANDL Thank you for bringing that up. Yes, I've known Stacy, I've
talked to her a couple of times and also with Janice, and so I know that we have
46 mental health first aid trainers across this island. So it's part of the amazing
infrastructure building that's already happening that we will need to coordinate.
So that's what my hope is, is that we have a coordinated effort on the different
ways that we could do the training. There's a number a suicide prevention task
force for this island, and they have other curriculums that they use. So it's about
bringing folks together to work on that.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Great. Thank you. I just want to make sure that we are
leveraging all the amazing mana`o and expertise that we have on this island and
not reinventing the wheel. And if there are ways in which we can further infuse
trauma informed care and the topic of ACEs (Adverse Childhood Experiences)
and BCEs (Benevolent Childhood Experiences) into some of our policy and
decision making, I think we all are in agreement on advancing that.
I'm a huge fan of the comprehensive economic development strategies. You
know, through my work with Vibrant Hawaii, we've led numerous conversations
and have developed our own set of action plans. Where are we in terms of this
process? I know that HIEDB (Hawai`i Island Economic Development Board)
typically leads the update of it. Are we waiting for State of Federal funding to
sort of be unlocked before we engage in formal revision?
MR. ADAMS: I'm not aware of the State funding requirement. We'll have to get
back to you on where we are with that. HIEDB and the other island, because
they're done by island, the other island agencies that feed the State's CEDS
(Comprehensive Economic Development Strategies), they are gathering—we
already know that Jacqui Hoover from HIEDB is doing that, already gathering
information, so we're helping in that regard as well. So the parallel tracks that I
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talked about before is, we're not actually telling you all different things. It's both
areas where there is work being done in development of an island support version
for the State, that's where we're providing support in both of those areas.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay.
MR. ADAMS: But, when it comes to where HIEDB is, I'll have to get back to
you on that.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I'd appreciate that. And you know, I just
want to emphasize, and I Beth Dykstra works really hard to support the process.
She's excellent at providing a lot of data that supports this document. I just want
to make sure this time around we have an action plan that is attached to the
strategy. It's really important that every single community stakeholder knows
their role so at the end of the five-year cycle we can look back and say, "Look,
everybody did their part and made a contribution, and we really did diversify and
build a more resilient economy."
I'm curious around how your department is going to be leveraging or not,
Opportunity Zone.
MR. ADAMS: So we're already you probably already do know this, but for
others that may not, one of our specialists on the Kona side, Princess Agina, has
been running with the Opportunity Zone opportunities, and has been able to
connect with both stakeholders in the community as well as in the County. And
we also have had the opportunity to already meet with some potential investors.
So that process is, as it is right now, a relatively slow process. It does depend on
making sure that we have connections with investors, but I'm happy to say that
we actually made some connections with some investors. So we'll see where that
actually goes, because it ultimately it depends on them wanting to put their money
into these areas.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, that's great. I mean I know the State really dropped
the ball, didn't really provide counties with leadership on this, so thank you for
picking that up. And when there are wins, come and bring them before the
Council. Nobody's going to know any of this is happening if you don't talk about
it. I know local culture, don't want to brag or anything, but these are things we
really need to be talking about so that folks know what R&D is driving.
You talked about recovery, and you know, really helping our community and the
economy bounce forward from this pandemic. We've got Federal funding likely
coming our way. I mean, can we expect a three-point plan, a ten-point plan from
your office about how we bounce our economy forward?
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MR. ADAMS: Sure. I can tell you right now that we have a no-point plan when
it comes to the $19 million this year and the $19 million next year. Is that a fair
statement? That money isn't going to be used for anything that we can do here.
If the State was going to act differently—I don't want to throw my State
colleagues under the bus but given the fact that it looks like they're going to use
the $1.6 that they're going to get and not necessarily push anything down to us,
and we're not going to see any of the Transient Accommodation Tax coming our
way, and the OPEB (Other Post-Employment Benefits) is going to be part of this.
Am I saying all this right? So what that all means is it's very nice that the Federal
Government sent directly to the County and the island $39 million over two years.
We won't be able to use it like we used CARES-1, when we had $80 million. It's
not going to be used that way.
So when it comes to economic recovery, the funds that we are looking for and
we're looking at, and we don't have any information on yet unless we've got
something in the last hour and a half, is the funds that are going to come through
the Federal agencies. And so we know that there will be funding that will come
through the Federal agencies like to the State, although some may actually be
inaccessible to us directly. That's where we're going to have to find some of
these funds. And then of course the American Jobs Plan will be another place
where we expect to see infrastructure funding coming down. And we have an
inside man, and we fully intend to use him.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Great. Sounds good. That's where I was going. There are
other buckets of funding within ARPA (American Rescue Plan Act) that we can
be leveraging, not necessarily what's coming directly to the counties, but through
other agencies. So thank you.
Just a couple of other questions. I'm curious how your department helps prepare
community to apply for the innovation grant. Here's why.
MR. ADAMS: Okay.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Through my work with Vibrant Hawaii, very in touch
with community and have realized over time they need help building up their
capacity, building up their ability to articulate their ideas through the grant
process. So what we've done, and we kick this off tomorrow, is we're leading an
eight-series on building up a resilient business plan. You know, our collaboration
with Kuhao Zane, Mahina Paishon-Duarte with AEEF (`Rina Aloha Economic
Futures); Keoni Li, Hawaii Investment Ready; the whole idea is empowering our
community. So I just wonder if there are ways in which R&D is working in this
space as well.
MR. ADAMS: Not in the way that Vibrant Hawaii is going after it. I think
that's fair to say. Now we've been doing the innovation grant work for a long
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time, right? The funds that you all have provided and the variety of mayors have
put into the budget, we then have been able to use the RFP process to request
proposals that come from the community in innovation ways. We've made a
couple of changes this year. We've really focused on innovation, and we've
focused on equity as a part of both the department goals and objectives piece.
But when it comes to the training, we conduct a webinar that talks about the
process itself, it explains what we're looking for, and then we have given it to
them. This will be the one time in this particular conversationI hope it's the
only time I say it—where we're just too new. We didn't have the time to do what
I think is absolutely important, which is how do we train folks to give us what we
want, which is proposals that are going to be based on things that are innovative,
that are about prototypes or proof of concept opportunities. There is some
training,particularly if we want those things, then we need to be able to help
people provide those things to us as a part of their proposals.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Chair, I have a few more questions, but I'm
going to yield to my colleagues for now. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Ms. Kimball, go ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, and thank you, Director Adams and Deputy
Director Ghandi, for being here today. And apologies for being slightly late to
your presentation. I had the opportunity to sit in, in your budget discussion, so I
know it pretty well. And also appreciate that we'd all love you to give you so
much more, but I appreciate that you're really pragmatic understanding of your
role—and I want to focus on—kind of growing from some of the comments that
Council Member Kierkiewicz made about that role as connector. Not only within
the County and between department, but one of the things that we saw and were
looking for when we were looking at the grants in aid, which you guys have
similar responsibilities, was first of all understanding there are so many people
doing a lot of good work in the areas that we've identified as priorities. How do
we get them talking to each other? How do we get them some of these capacity-
building skills that they need?
So you know, specifically with regard to the budget, I look at the Resource Center
and some of the funding there. Any ideas on, you know, expanding that resource
component, really focusing in on R&D's role as a connector entity rather than an
execution entity.
MR. ADAMS: So I think that's not necessarily the County's role completely,
right? I think that there are plenty of folks out there that can take on some of that
work and do it—I'm sorry I'm so loud—and do it maybe with more people than
what we have. Right, so there's a cost associated if we would what you're asking
us to do. We've talked about the idea that, that's a really important center for not
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just our department, but for the County and potentially in some cases for the
community. But it's right now a single person, and the idea of expanding—and
we make great use out of the resource, that's Beth Dykstra, right, in the
community as well as within the department, on things that are right now get this
done kind of situations. Plus her knowledge of the variety of grant opportunities
that are out there and then helping other members of the department.
I'm not trying to—it may be rude that I say this but I'm not trying to build an
empire. I'm not sure that government always is the best place for the kind of
center that would provide the kind of information that you're looking for. We can
make sure that there's access to that; we want to make sure that there's access to
that. But I think this goes back to the grant question. I think that there's
opportunities. I think that there's probably money out there that if we can find it,
we can then leverage that to have somebody come in to do that work.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, I appreciate that you're not into empire building, if you
will. You know, really when we look at the responsibilities we have as a County
and as a Council and as an Administration, public health and safety,
infrastructure, R&D is, you know, it's an icing on the cake. Maybe a crown jewel
if you will. But there are other places that have better capability, but I think what
we do is that connection piece between understanding what is needed as a society,
as a community for this comprehensive level of economic development, this
diversity. So what I'm interested in is how do we expand you know, I think it
may be misrepresenting what I was asking in terms of that connectivity building.
Like you said, I think there are other mechanisms, other places that maybe do that
better. How do we join into that? Maybe that's a better way to phrase that.
MR. ADAMS: The ability for the County to join into any conversation is not
hard. We say we want to join, and most people say, "Yes, we'd love to have
you." Part of this is—but I'm not sure that I misunderstood the question or maybe
didn't answer it fully previously. There are opportunities in our economy to do
the kind of work that you were talking about, right? And I think that—the reason
I shied away from that in a way is because I think that because that's an industry
potentially that could find a place here, I would encourage that to happen. So I
would look for the funding perhaps to enable that piece. I think the County's
involvement—the County's pretty involved. Our department's pretty involved in
conversations across all the sectors. Now we're adding quality of life issues
because we think it's vital that we also have those conversations and are present
for those conversations, whether they're State, or the nonprofit, or the private
sector. So we're adding on to our ability to connect.
And within the department, frankly it's our responsibility within the department to
make sure that everybody kind of knows what everybody else is doing. That's the
connection piece that is really important. We're working on that. I think there's
some processes associated with that. Then as we build our connections with the
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other departments, particularly Planning for example and their long-term Planning
divisions, there are important connections that are being made there.
There is a, I like to call it 21" Century Governance. There are opportunities for us
to look at how do we have our staffs talking to each other. That's where the
connections begin to be made in my mind, and making sure that we're doing that
with processes that maintain what government's supposed to do, right? Be
transparent, maintain accountability, and show some degree of efficiency. Those
are but at the same time, you want people's best thoughts, and you want that
level of collaboration. So when we're able to see that within government, that
sets an example I think for the rest of the sectors, whether it be private or
nonprofit, as well.
So collaboration, connection is vital to what we do. It's intrinsic if you will to
what we do. I just I don't want to leave out the idea that there are elements
within the Resource Center that can help with the data driven aspects of that.
Maybe that's where you're going with this. But there is actually the connection
piece that's going to be dependent on, to some degree, something that's being
developed right now, where we're looking at developing out of the Sustainability
Summit, that is a directory. So there's some work that's being done on that as
well.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you for that. I appreciate to this—we hadn't talked
about it before, but the civic engagement piece about transparency, and really
evaluating how we even govern, and you know, there's been a lot of discussion
about how we need to break down those silos to be more effective, come up with
standard operating procedures. I applaud you for adding that to your very long
list of things that you're interested in. And I do think that there's an opportunity
to provide some leadership in terms of how to do things a little bit differently. So
it's great to see how that proceeds. But thank you again for being here, and I
yield my time. Thanks, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Rebecca or
Maile? Rebecca's ready. Okay, Rebecca, go ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: Hi, thank you for being here and for sharing the vast concepts,
ideas, projects, programs and initiatives that you're working on. Also sort of the
value systems that are driving that. Something that really came to mind from me
as potentially being hopefully a supportive model all of these projects and
programs that you're working on is a circular economy and the amount of
information out there now, and different municipalities and even countries who
are identifying that economic paradigm an system as being imperative to the
success of our communities, of our government, of our island here as our island
home, for us to be able to be able to achieve food resilience, energy self-
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sufficiency, any kind of resource development here locally. And so I just kind of
want to throw that out there and keep that front of mind.
The Ellen MacCarthur Foundation has phenomenal information and guidance and
training in kind of transitioning the thought processes in how to identify the value
systems associated with the circular economy and how that will then dictate what
best choices to make based on risk and reward. And while it holds us accountable
to not fall for the shiny object that makes it all too easy to jump to a short-term
economic solution that doesn't in the long run get us to where we need to be.
You know, hearing conversations about agriculture, the first thing that comes to
mind for me is the difference between industrial agriculture versus local food
security. That's a very different model. You know, having met with a wonderful
woman who works on a farm here in South Kona utilizing circular economy
principles, utilizing waste from the stores around her, trying to put together a
farmers' market with all local produce, and unfortunately the greatest challenge
she had in that community is that the agricultural crops grown in that area are
predominantly commodities. We've got coffee, which is fantastic, and we've got
mac nuts and some other agricultural products, but there are products that are
more apt for export and to be sold in other places, not just to be consumed here on
island. So what I'm seeing is this disparity and the challenge of farmers.
I had another woman on the phone the other day. They moved here a few years
ago with this thought process that they could by a 20-acre coffee farm, and it
could support them financially. And it's becoming a really tragic circumstance
for them to come to an understanding of what many of usI know that, you
know, Maile herself farms coffee with her family, but she works here with us as
her full-time job. Wait this is supposed to be a part-time job, but anyway as
another career. So that's kind of just an assumed,just a given. I also see the
irony in us exporting our cattle to be then slaughtered and then re-imported.
So I feel like there's got to be low-hanging fruit for R&D to identify ways for
funding slaughterhouses, to supporting our mahi`ai. I've heard too many times
that young people don't want to farm, they don't want to do it, and I say that's not
right. There are a lot of people, but I really feel that it's going to take an honest
and humble returning and questioning and bringing to the table those who have
continued to live a subsistence lifestyle and aren't relying—and I myself am
guilty in my current busy, everyday life of relying on the Costco's and the
Targets, and the whatnot. But growing up, we had an outside garden. My mom
sewed our clothes. We made curtains out of old sheets. That was just how you
did it. Circular economy was done—well often times because of poverty, but it
was resilience, and it was utilizing resources over and over and over again. And I
think there's opportunity for us to decouple the need to use more, bring in more,
acquire more, even sometimes build more. There are so many empty buildings in
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Kona right now. And new shopping malls get built and then the old ones get left
empty.
I just really am hopeful that as you continue to navigate the mission and the
values of R&D, that you will take into consideration and hold close to your
heart—and I have lots of books on it if you want themI know Ms. Ghandi saw a
bunch of them on my desk when we were able to meet.
So I just want to quickly close with something that a family member who is living
on Oahu right now said recently during a visit to the Big Island. And his
comment was, "When you walk on this island, you can tell that the mana is still
alive here. The spirits of this land have not been scattered and dismantled by over
treading." I mean we get close, but that statement to me just really hit close to
home and close to my heart and really regenerated gratitude and pride that our
island is still this way, but also a renewed sense of responsibility and kuleana and
commitment as we open up in certain capacities for visitors to return.
But and Ms. Kierkiewicz said taking care of our sacred spaces. Making sure that
we don't sacrifice the mana of this land for the almighty dollar and the
spreadsheets and the numbers and perceived economic growth at the cost of future
generations being able to live and thrive on this incredible island that we call
home. So thank you for your efforts, your intentions, and your continued
diligence to incorporate all of these value systems in the projects and programs
that you're working on.
MR. ADAMS: Did you want to say anything?
MS. GHANDL Council Member, that was poetic. Thank you. That's the kind of
community and County I want to live in. Mahalo.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Maile, do you
have any—do you want to add to the conversation?
MS. DAVID: Not right now. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Mr. Inaba, before I move off
Kona?
MR. INABA: No, I'm good right now. Mahalo, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Doug, Deputy Ghandi, you know, in the private sector R&D is
very important, right? And that's to develop product lines especially when the
bottom line is getting slimmer. A little bit different here, right? You know, I
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think I've told you and I've told every other director that I've worked with prior
to you, that from my experience the direction and the vision of the department
changes from director to director. It really depends on the leadership on the top.
It can be focused on agriculture, on tourism, you know, and other things. I look
forward to seeing what happens under your leadership. But all I want to say is
very brief. I don't have much to say. And whatever I have to say I can talk to
you later on, right? I may have mentioned to you that the deputy director's
position was something that was initiated by the County Council. Prior to that,
because the department was so small, they felt there wasn't a need for it. But we
felt otherwise. The reason for that is this: You touched upon it, Doug. We have
to get ideas from outside.
As unpopular as it may be to the general public, one of you has to be free to go
out into the world and to gather ideas and experiences from out there. It's so vital
to the decision-making processes that we go through here. That was the reason
why we created that position. So just take it to heart. We're giving you cover to
do it. Not now of course, but when travel does start opening up, I would urge you
to really do that. And that's all I really have to say. Thank you.
MR. ADAMS: If I may,just briefly? And Councilman Chung, you've made sure
I've gotten that message a few times. I would tell you that in the conversations
that led to Dr. Ghandi becoming the deputy director, her accepting the position,
part of that was associated with what you're talking about. An understanding that
first of all we have to take ideas from wherever we can get them. We do have to
understand, and I think everybody would appreciate this, that the ideas that are
gathered are also gathered with an understanding of how they fit here, right, and
so all the variety of layers that are a part of Hawaii Island and how this is going
to work. And of course we're looking to the future. So what does that all mean.
But we clearly appreciate the need for us to get out and about. It's not just about
making friends. Frankly, it's also about making sure that we're able to bring back
aspects of what's working out there to see if it's going to work here.
MR. CHUNG: And I agree with you 100 percent. It has to fit here. But at the
same time, we cannot isolate ourselves from the other ideas. Or insulate
ourselves. Or be insulated, right? We have to get ideas and see if they match up
with our value set here.
MR. ADAMS: It's been terrific, actually. Probably all of you actually saw the
final breakout session with the variety of world leaders from island nations as a
part of the Sustainability Summit. That led me to be able to actually connect on
the University of Guam's Conference on Sustainability that they've run now for a
few years as well. Listening to some of the same people and then some additional
world leaders from situations and conditions that are similar to ours, right, and the
idea of being able to connect with those, understand where they're going, some of
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the issues that they have, and you know, sometimes we can bring things to that to
help, and then there are other times things that they've been able to do and work
on that have shown some degree of success. We want to make sure that we're
going to consider those as well. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Doug. Go ahead, Ms. Lee
Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you both for being here. I'm just
going to focus, like really take a deep dive into innovation grant, and Deputy
Director, Dr. Ghandi, I just, we're doing a lot of work with the grant in aid, and
we've begun to shift a lot of that conversation around some of that place making.
Not only addressing the underbelly of community but helping them look forward
a little bit and using some of the principles with trauma and informed care in our
health pillar.
But what I'm learning through that process is that there's no journey mapping.
And Council Member Kierkiewicz touched upon this, right, "smallify." You guys
have some ideas. But if we could smallify and see where some of these
nonprofits could actually plug in a little bit, because they have wonderful ideas in
what they're doing. And maybe with a little help with a business model or a
business plan that Ms. Kierkiewicz is looking at, we could actually create
economy for a nonprofit so that they could become sustainable.
Not so much for you to answer now, but if we could just continue the
conversation, because what I'm seeing is they're having to apply for grants at all
various times of years. So they have a program budget for a year, but our money
comes at a certain time, you know, other philanthropical dollars come at another
time of the year. So if we could streamline that process, and I know this year was
challenging because it's something, the RFP process that came to you prior to this
Administration. But if we could work together, and as Ms. Kierkiewicz
mentioned, is helping them capacity in this grant writing process, which will
actually give them the hand up. Where I'm hopeful, and I think some of my other
colleagues are, is that they actually kind of take control of their future a little bit
more. But the terminology, the vernacular that they need to meet in some of those
grants I think is where I would like to see some of the collaborative between the
Council and this department.
Then the other piece I just wanted to touch upon is with the grant in aid process,
we didn't see a single applicant around government and civics. Maybe because
it's not absent, but they didn't know. They didn't know to either apply or there
are programs out there that are doing this kind of civic and government
engagement, but they're just not in the mainstream or just not in front of us. So as
we lift up community, you know, if we're not seeing it in the nonprofit grant in
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aid piece, that's always going to be an anchor that kind of holds us back, because
that's how we lift up community, is right, engagement across all the sectors.
So I'd also like to see maybe some funding and/or some resources kind of put in
that area so that people are engaging government in a thoughtful solution-oriented
way, or vice-versa, right, where government is actually engaging community back
at a level that is helpful to them.
So those are just my thoughts, but anything really related to the budget, but as we
look forward. Because we know the gaps that are coming, especially with the
State funding, no funding actually from the State around grant in aid.
So that was my only thoughts, but if we could just keep that conversation going,
where they're not having the reapply. You know,universal forms or whatever
that looks like. So that would be my ask, if that's okay. Chair—yeah? Go ahead.
MS. GHANDL I look forward to having this conversation as soon as we finish
this round, which is what I committed to you and I committed to our director
about as well, that as soon as this round is completed, then the summer I'm diving
back into it to see what I've learned from this process, in going through one
round, and what we can do in that way. I absolutely agree with coordination,
especially if the funds are coming from the County. How can we make it easier
for our community members?
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and then leveraging some of the information from the
Sustainability Summit, because we heard those same barriers through the grant in
aid process, right? Whether it was affordable housing, access to health care,
trauma informed care, right, high suicide rate, drug use. You know, we're seeing
it, and we've got to align a little better. I think we're all, as Mr. Richards says,
pivot. You know, we're all going to pivot. I think if we could do that in a
coordinated way, we'd actually amplify the dollars all around. But hopefully use
that innovation grant for them to kind of become self-sustainable. So Chair, I
yield at this time.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Ms.
Kierkiewicz, go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks, Chair. I'll make it quick. You know,just spring-
boarding off what Council Member Lee Loy brought forward in wanting to make
sure that we take every dollar, and we amplify its use. I mean when we were
going through this GIA (Grant In Aid)process, we were very intentional around
engaging Hawaii Community Foundation in how they've designed the Change
Framework. I hope you're taking that approach as well, because there's a lot of
money that's available through that foundation. Various trusts, other groups that
have missions that are similar to what we are trying to achieve and so just really
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encouraging those sort of partnerships. Because you talk about having lack of
funding, there's millions of dollars out there. We've just got to go ask.
MR. ADAMS: Right, so the RFP requires a match. Right, now it can be -kind,
but there is a match requirement that was not required last year but has been in the
past. We understand why last year, but we reinserted the idea that there has to be
a one-to-one match.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: But I also think it's important to just stay in touch with
them and share data. Because if we are getting certain applications, are not able
to fill all the gaps, this is likely a way in which philanthropy can play a role.
The other think, and I know we don't have time for it today, we would love a
presentation on next steps with the sustainability listening sessions, and also the
Sustainability Summit. You know, very captive audience. People really excited
that the County is making this a priority to tackle. Again, people just want to
know where they fit in and really curious around how these sustainability
concepts are going to be advanced by the various department heads. So I'll end it
there and we look forward to the conversation.
MR. ADAMS: You and me both.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay great. Thanks, Chair. I yield.
MS. KIMBALL: Can I jump in there, Chair? I will take partial—Chair David
has asked us not to have any presentations, but Director Adams was ready to put
one on our last GOREDC (Governmental Operations, Relations and Economic
Development Committee) meeting, and as soon as we have an available spot after
the budget hearings, look forward to your presentation and apologize that it hasn't
been possible sooner. Mahalo.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much. Very robust
discussion. Any comments from Kona? Rebecca you all set? Good, good.
Hearing nothing from Kona side. I just want to follow up. Holeka brought up a
good point about ag. And you talked about basically how you're going to go out
to RFP.
MR. ADAMS: We've already gone out to RFP.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So it's already public RFP language.
MR. ADAMS: Yep.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So I think then what would be good
for us to understand is what the RFP language looks like so that we can
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understand what kind of direction and directives you are putting for the
community in the applications.
MR. ADAMS: Okay, we'll get you the verbiage that's associated with the
agricultural piece of the RFP. I don't think you want all 50 pages of the RFP.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, maybe not for all of us, if you could
for those of us interested. I've come to learn that RFP guides the application.
MR. ADAMS: Absolutely.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So when we know what's in that language,
we can figure out what the direction was.
MR. ADAMS: A lot of hard work going in to make sure this goes out so that
when it comes in it's what we're looking for.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
MR. ADAMS: Right.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Budget-wise, your guys' budget looks
pretty tight just like everyone else's. Yeah, your overtime is actually zeroed out
which I like to see. The questions I had were actually brought up by other
Council Members already. Tourism, you know, that's an interesting piece right
now. There were some good points raised.
MR. ADAMS: So the RFP in tourism does some of the things that we were
talking about, right. It's not just marketing, right. It's about management as well.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, I read that in your guys' program
obj ective.
MR. ADAMS: Right. So we're looking to see what we get back.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Yeah, I mean just I mean
just as I was thinking in my brain when we were talking about all this, we're
seeing a huge decrease in revenue from the State mainly because we don't have
tourism. So the budget that we're seeing is a budget based on no tourism dollars,
in a way. So it's interesting to try and wrap your brain around well, this is what it
would look like without tourism. I mean we're actually looking at right now and
it's not beautiful, but here it is. So if we wanted to gage what it would look like
without tourism and what that means to the economy, well here we are.
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MR. ADAMS: That also means nine percent unemployment, which I'm not
excited about.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It does? It does, yeah. So next point.
Really nice transition, cost of living.
MR. ADAMS: We've had this conversation.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. I mean, it's kind of a quiet killer
behind the scenes for every household on island. Well not every household.
Some people are doing just fine. But for most people cost of living is huge. Is
there any component of R&D just in cost of living?
MR. ADAMS: Yeah, energy for sure is part of that, right. Our ability to go after
renewable but at the same time it needs to be less expensive for customers. So I
mean I've been very happy to continue to have conversations with the primary
utility on the island. We've engaged between 15 and 20 times already, and
they're including us in their thoughts about where they're going. Energy's a big
deal for us. We figure that if we can make some headway in those areas, that
there's going to be a savings for all kinds of folks,not just consumers but also
commercial entities, agriculture entities especially. So we're working really hard
on that.
And then we know that when it comes to cost of living, anything that we can
avoid importing, we're going to lessen the cost to the consumers. So that means
developing frankly, to coin a phrase, a"vibrant agricultural industry." We know
that. So part of that involves Meadow Gold has come and talked to us. We're
trying to work with them because there's dairy aspects associated with that, and
some interesting things that they're talking about that. You know, you've got to
have the processor. If you don't have the processing then you're not going to get
the milk and then you're bringing it over, right? So and that's just an example, a
small example.
So agriculture, we know that education, health care, are going to be big numbers
for us in the future. Making sure that we have the ability to be a part of the
conversation that revolves around access to health care, in addition to making sure
that we have the right number of folks trained to do that and that there's an
industry that's taking care of our kupuna, of which I'm almost one. So you know,
all those things are part and parcel, I think, of looking at an economy of the
future.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. You guys addressed because it's
interesting balancing what R&D does, what you can do given your budget, and
how that fits into the community. So we talk about big, you know, lofty ideas, as
far, you know, where do you guys' fit in. So cost of living-wise, energy is one,
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shipping his huge. Do you guys' address shipping at all? We had a 50 percent
increase in shipping rates. We're all seeing the effects of that, across every
sector. It doesn't matter what sector you're in. If it's a no,just tell me no.
MR. ADAMS: I mean, I think the answer is our ability to address any of that
stuff outside the you know, whether it's our air carriers coming in or you know,
Matson or Young Brothers coming in, we just don't have the ability necessarily to
affect what is essentially international costs. So think the way we affect it is that
we work on the diversity of our economy here, making sure that we're able to
provide for our folks with the products we have here. We can't provide
everything, but we can provide enough that it should lessen the cost for folks.
Because part of the cost that we bear has to do with the fact that a lot of the
containers leave here empty. So let's put some stuff in the containers. That then
begins the process of increasing wealth, right, which is important. That helps
with cost of living, but it also can help the shipping folks with the idea that, "Hey,
maybe I don't have to charge so much just going one way."
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. Now you touched on another one
too that is interesting, which is kind of out of the bounds of normal thinking then
I've even seen from R&D, but efficiency. And whether it's efficiency projects,
whether it's government efficiency, whether it's the way we use paper, I mean
whatever it may be. But that was interesting one that you caught me off guard
with that. So I didn't see that I mean, I don't think I saw that in your program
objectives.
MR. ADAMS: Probably not. So let's understand efficiency from Adam's
perspective, right? We don't maximize efficiency, right? Because maximizing
anything causes problems down the road, right, or in other area. So you look
where you can optimize. So there are good reasons that we do what we do in
Finance, in Procurement, right, because there's transparency, there's
accountability requirements. But do we have to do all of it. Are there ways that
we can mitigate some of the issues that they're trying to avoid, and yet provide
some of the support that Council Member Lee Loy was talking about when it
comes to grants and nonprofit work and building capacity?
So let's see, part of what we look at is not just the collaboration and breaking
down stovepipes. The idea is, what are some of the processes that we can allow
our private sector, meaning both nonprofit and business sectors, to engage with
public sector in a way that doesn't make it so painful for everybody?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Even within government, we have room to
be more efficient, in the way we do projects, the way we look at everything.
MR. ADAMS: And we know, and we can tell. I mean this is part of what I think
Council Member Chung talks about, right? There are lots of areas that are able to
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do things in a minimum and a length of time, the duration of time that is in some
cases much less than what we're able to find here. So we can rail about it, or we
can try and figure out—so how are they doing that and are there pieces there that
we can bring here?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: If travel was opened back up and because
we're looking at budgeting Fiscal Year 2021-22, you haven't really set aside a lot
of funds for travel.
MR. ADAMS: Nope, we have not.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That may be something you want to look at
as you move forward. I mean we're an island. So is Japan. Japan is years ahead
of us when it comes to how they deal with waste, how they deal with moving
people and transportation. Whatever it may be. So instead of inventing the wheel
over here
MR. ADAMS: Part of this is again, back to efficiency. Is it more efficient for me
to actually show up someplace and get the dog and pony show or is it going to be
efficient because I'm able to go and talk with somebody or going to have a
conversation that I couldn't have on a Zoom call. I don't know yet, and part of
this is making those decision. You know, it's a cost benefit analysis associated
with it.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We did a sister city visit, pre-COVID, and
we actually visited one of their waste facilities. And you know, I think for them it
was fairly straight forward and simple. For me it was exact opposite of anything
I've ever seen in my lifetime. Then on the backend of that visit, on a previous trip
to Japan you know, my wife and I like to go to Japan—we visitedI forget, it
was a huge site. You know, I would say somewhere in the range of 20 to 40 acres
that was a landfill, that is now a rideable, walkable playground/park. You can't
Zoom call that.
MR. ADAMS: No,probably not.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And I think at that point, due to your
department and kind of your goals and objectives, it may be worthwhile putting
some travel expenses in there so you can go and collect those ideas and bring
them back here and have them implemented, or else we spent a lot of time
reinventing the wheel when we don't need to. That's what you're here to do for
us.
MR. ADAMS: Not reinvent the wheel. I understand.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Oh, and to be our brilliant brains of the
County. Well, I mean both of you guys. Anything else you want to add?
MR. ADAMS: I really appreciate the opportunity. I do apologize for you guys
having three lawyers in a row. I'm so happy that Scott's going to be coming up
next. He breaks that angle. I apologize, Council Member Chung. I know that
was a cheap shot.
So we really appreciate your interest, obviously, in what we're doing. We are
small. We know it. But we've got really, really strong people. And we're
working on, with the funds that you all are providing to us and that the Mayor is
providing to us, how we can make sure exactly what you're talking about. How
we make sure that we're amplifying, we're multiplying with the multiplication
factor, whatever the correct economic term is, the funds that we have so that we
can turn, so that we can pivot properly.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, that's been a key word for a long
time now. That's a nice word. I wanted to say, and mahalo for your guys' time
today, but also your staff. And what R&D has done during the eruption, there's
some key people in your office, Jane Horike was one of those. I am very sad to
hear that she's leaving. I didn't know that, but I just wanted to take a second to
commend Jane for what she does for the County.
MR. ADAMS: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And she will be missed, I'm sure, by
myself, I'm sure, as you as well. Because she's a wealth of information.
MR. ADAMS: Absolutely.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So thank you for your time today. Nice to
meet you in person, and we're going to go ahead and recess for a few minutes and
we'll see you guys on the next round somewhere.
MR. ADAMS: Alrighty. Thank you all. Thank you, Kona.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Let's take a 10-minute recess.
Recess: At 3:09 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 3:13 p.m.
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(4) Department of Information Technology:
(Note: At this time, Information Technology Director Scott Uehara came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We're back from recess. We have Director
from IT here, and you are Information Technology. Good to have you with us.
Thank you for being here. I know you have a PowerPoint presentation. Why
don't you go ahead and get started, introduce yourself for the record, and then
proceed with your PowerPoint. And we'll answer and do questions from there.
MR. UEHARA: Thank you, Chairman. Good afternoon, Council Members. My
name is Scott Uehara, Director for the Department of Information Technology.
And on the video, I also have Support Services Manager and User Support
Program Manager, Matthew Iaukea; Erik Lash, our GIS Program Manager
(Geographic Information Systems); and Kevin Norris, our System Support
Program Manager, also.
This afternoon I wanted to provide a brief summary of the accomplishments our
department has completed throughout the fiscal year and initiatives for moving
forward for the upcoming fiscal, and that will be shown through the PowerPoint
slides that I have.
(Note: At this time, Mr. Uehara provided a PowerPoint presentation to the
members of the Committee. For viewing of the presentation, please
see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office
or navigate to the Council's video archives online from the County's
homepage at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A copy of the PowerPoint is made
a part of the record. See Comm. 103.11.)
MR. UEHARA: Before I move off onto questions, I did want to say something
for the team at DIT. You know, I've had the pleasure of working with them, and
it's coming from the Police Department, it's been very eye opening. You know,
these guys work very hard. They put in a lot of hours. This past year has been
difficult, but they've stood up to that challenge. They've put in a lot of hours.
They've fielded over 300 computers to support remote work for our County
employees. It took a lot of hours out of their day. The team on EnerGov has been
spending a lot of hours. I'll be at the office until 6:00 o'clock, and they're still
there working on it day in and day out. I'm really appreciative of everything they
do there, and I'm in awe of how much time they give to the County. That's the
last thing I had to say, and I wanted to open to the questions.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Sir. I appreciate that last
comment, because Planning threw DPW under the bus, but nobody mentioned
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how much work IT has been doing on that. How often are you guys there? How
often have you guys been there and working through this with them?
MR. UEHARA: For Planning?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Well, for EnerGov.
MR. UEHARA: Okay, for EnerGov in general
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Briefly, briefly.
MR. UEHARA: Okay. We've had one person dedicated to assisting Planning
with their program narrative development, translating that from a paper workflow
into an electronic workflow. That person has been working on it literally every
day of the week. She has been dedicated to Planning and doing that. We have
other staff that are doing data conversion to ensure that all the data from their
Lotus system, their Magnet system and their Excel spreadsheets all get converted
into EnerGov. And we have our GIS, that's making sure that GIS is integrated
and working with the EnerGov workflows.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I did not know that. Thank you. Thank
you for clarifying that for us. Okay, questions Council Members? Ms. Lee Loy,
go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Actually I was going to lead off with that,
which is EnerGov. Thank you, Scott, for being here. You know, are you a Harry
Potter fan?
MR. UEHARA: Not particularly.
MS. LEE LOY: They have these house elves, and they get everything cleaned up
in the middle of the night, and you just come back to a clean room. And you
know, I really see IT as that kind of magical hard-working crew that rarely gets
recognized.
MR. UEHARA: I'm glad you clarified that. I was thinking you were going to tell
me I look like a house elf.
MS. LEE LOY: No,just magic. You guys do magic. I did want to dive into
EnerGov, because the Administration, the Mayor's Office, everybody has really
made this a priority. So as Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder mentioned, you know,
everybody's kind of pointing fingers at one another. After all of this gets stood up
as far as EnerGov goes, I'm assuming or maybe you can help direct me, IT's
going to have to manage it.
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And I keep asking this question because everybody seems ready to handle it
through this fiscal, but the phase two piece, right? What kind of funding is
needed? How much training are we going to need? You know, we heard train the
trainers. But we're going to onboard some new people. They're going to need
training. Where does that fit in your budget assuming we get EnerGov stood up,
and what kind of funds do we need to help you folks support this new platform for
the Planning Department, Public Works?
MR. UEHARA: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. You know, I did hear
those comments through the other Committees, or through the other meetings that
you had. Right now, there's nothing in our budget to cover EnerGov. In terms of
training, we're looking at the other departments to continue to train the trainer, or
what would more likely happen is probably on the job training. I'm sure
everybody's aware of when you start a job, either you read a handbook or a lot of
times it's you ask your coworker how do you do this, how do you do that. Right
now it's looking like there's going to be a mixture of that.
For the maintenance of EnerGov, that part, I don't think any of us have talked
about it yet. Right now, the big emphasis is to make sure this launches and one
thing that the team that's been working on EnerGov has been very appreciative of
is that Mr. Rodenhurst, Mr. Kern, have dived in completely. They've been on the
management calls, and they've really pushed hard with Tyler Technologies, to
make sure that they understand that we're going to meet a go-live this time.
There is no turning back, and everybody is putting all effort into this. That's
something that Mr. Rodenhurst, Mr. Kern guaranteed, and they've been following
through with that. Every meeting that I hear them on, they are always pushing the
Tyler Technologies Management to make sure that we are going to successful go
live. And even after go live, what is it going to look like.
So right now, we don't have that answer today. But we are asking the questions
to figure out how we are going to continue this so that it doesn't fall apart after we
go live.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you for that. And thinking ahead a little bit, I'm going to
leave it there and let those brilliant minds talk about that. The other part I wanted
to talk about is how we dovetail a lot of what we heard. We have the Manli
System, we have GIS, we have LIDAR mapping (Light Detection and Ranging),
and then now we have this EnerGov. How is all that metadata you know, we
had a MAGNET system—how is all of that getting uploaded and what kind of
resources do we need in managing this after we go live?
MR. UEHARA: In terms of integration, we're already integrating the GIS portion
with EnerGov. The LIDAR system, I wasn't aware that we had a LIDAR system.
And the Manli System, from what I take it listening in yesterday, it sounds like a
road improvement system based on some criteria. Those we haven't been in
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discussion about integrating those. Yesterday was the first time I learned about it.
If it's something that we should be integrating, DIT would be excited to look at
how we can get all of these integrated.
The question really is, is it the right thing to do to integrate? A lot of times people
ask us to integrate things, but there's no focus of why we're integrating it. It just
sounds great to integrate, you know, to get all these systems talking to each other.
But there needs to be a process to use all this information and to analyze that
information. It's kind of like big data sets. We're taking all these different sets of
data, but we need a system to ingest all of it and to help us analyze it so that we
can make informed decisions. I think that's where you're leading, is having a
system like that.
MS. LEE LOY: You know, this is what this process does, right? It highlights all
the money that are going into providing tools to the different departments. You
know, we've heard about the Spellman program with Prosecuting Attorneys,
which is something the Police Department uses, you know, GIS. So we're trying
to look for efficiencies also. And I understand there are some guardrails around
Police Department and Prosecuting Attorney's Office, but I've been here going on
my fifth year now and I've seen a lot of money go to providing tools to the
different departments. And I think this is the one area of the silos that we need to
start breaking down. And you're asking the right question, right, do we integrate,
and if not why. Or the exact opposite, is there something we can build better, you
know while integrating those things.
Yeah, I think you're on point and you've got a pulse on it already that those
conversations need to be had. But if we don't put the resources there then it's
going to fall short. And you know, we're delivering an expectation, and we're not
going to meet that expectation. That's the bottom line. Regardless if we go live,
if we cannot keep it going, it's going to be one more system that everybody's
going to want to walk away from and say well, we should go back to what we had
in the past or try something new. Maybe some thought should be given around
that.
I do want to, maybe using the same model of your Big Island hui, maybe doing
that kind of within the County system first maybe, as a model. I don't know.
Those are my suggestions. I'm concerned. You know, we heard earlier about a
status quo budget, everybody's with a status quo budget, but if we're really going
to move Hawaii County forward, this is a critical piece. We saw with the
pandemic the need to work remotely. Yeah, let's give that some thought. Chair,
I'm going to yield at this time.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Richards,
your light is on. Go ahead.
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MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. And thanks, Director. Question on closing
the loop around—do you have an explanation of why that hasn't been
accomplished yet?
MR. UEHARA: We haven't gotten an explanation from Spectrum. There are
multiple companies getting into the national park to close their connectivity.
Hawaiian Telcom is another provider that's going to be getting in there. From
what I understand with them, they need to order some special equipment to finish
up closing that gap. For Spectrum, they haven't given any details of why it hasn't
been closed yet. It's interesting from the DCCA (Department of Commerce and
Consumer Affairs) who does manage the cable franchise agreement, they told us
that it would be completed in mid-April. When I spoke directly to Spectrum, their
estimation is end of May. At this point, I'm not sure who to believe. I'm still
waiting.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, and I think this was one of the first things you and I
discussed, was closing that loop, and I'm very disappointed that it's not been done
yet. But that's actually not a job for you, that's a job for us to investigate. That's
the first thing.
The second thing, Director, one of the big concerns across the nation for the
counties was the cyber security. There's been a huge number of breaches, and it's
my understanding and sitting in on these calls that it was in little jurisdictions like
us where they could get in there because of probably maybe a little antiquated
security measures, whatever the case may be. What is your opinion of our cyber
security status and what do we need to do to correct it? Because this a huge topic
for the National Association of Counties. This is the time to be frank.
MR. UEHARA: I'm honestly impressed by our cyber security. We don't have a
very deep bench for cyber security within DIT, but the person who does manage a
lot of our cyber security initiatives is on top of it. With the solar winds chain
attack, literally the data that came out, the individual had already updated our
systems. Then we did investigate to see if we had any type of breach or exposure,
and we found none. Then we had the Microsoft Exchange on premise security
alert. That once again, our cyber security person was on top of it from the
moment it was announced, it was patched that day already, and the person did
investigate and again, did not find any types of breach. They found attempts to
infiltrate the network, but nothing was able to get through.
So I would say our cyber security is good. There's always more that can be done.
Going back to the `90's, we used to call it the onion idea where you have defense
in layers. So you keep on adding layers on top of layers of just defensive
capabilities. Because people who want to break into our network, they'll break
into the easy targets. If they have to penetrate through multiple security layers,
they're eventually going to give up. They'll break through a few, but after being
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met with multiple roadblocks, they'll eventually get tired and just say it's not
worth their time to keep on penetrating or trying to penetrate. For the County, in
the past they've added multiple layers, and they're all doing a very good job. So I
would say our cyber security is good.
MR. RICHARDS: And you feel it's funded well enough?
MR. UEHARA: We could use some additional funding for it. We do have some
supplementary budget requests that would continue our cyber security efforts.
We did cut them out because of budget reductions, but we do have the
supplemental requests.
MR. RICHARDS: I'm going to agree with Council Woman Lee Loy on this.
This is very critical, so paramount for success of the County with all the stay at
home, whatever. So if you have a number there,please communicate it to the
Council because these are the things we have to consider going forward. So with
that, I appreciate it, Director. Thank you so much. Chair, I yield.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Kimball, go
ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. Thanks, Director Uehara, for being here
today and everything you do. Very excited about the broadband hui for Big
Island. I'm happy to participate in that with you. Just let me know when you're
meeting. You're not going to play the video for us, with Burt? Maybe another
time.
MR. UEHARA: I'd rather not. I hate watching myself in videos.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. Well, did you post it on YouTube?
MR. UEHARA: Yes, he did.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, so go ahead and look. There was an announcement
about the broadband hui, with Burt Lum from the Statewide broadband hui with
Scott on it. I thought you did very well.
I want to just keep on the cyber security because that's a big concern as
Councilman Richards said for the National Association of Counties. And we do
know that hackers are becoming more and more sophisticated in terms of their
capabilities. And looking at some of the preliminary information about what's
coming, what some of the guidelines will be for the American Rescue Package as
well as the American Jobs Plan, there is funding for cyber infrastructure.
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I'm curious, Deanna, maybe you can answer. Director Sako maybe you can
answer this. Do we ask IT for their capital improvement requests? Because I
don't see anything in here from DIT. Does that live in a different place?
MS. SAKO: They can submit capital projects like any other department. They do
have some, remembering that it's a three-year, three different capital budgets that
are still active. So I think they do have some older projects, but in general they
work with Public Works on their projects. So especially if it's a true capital
project where we need to build or construct something then Public Works would
take the lead on that.
MS. KIMBALL: Got it. Okay, thank you for that clarification. Because we've
talked about shovel ready, like physical projects, but I think there's an opportunity
to have shovel ready cyber projects here, whether it's around broadband, whether
it's around cyber security, storage of course, another big issue for us. Storage and
redundancy, have you made any decisions yet with regard to all of the data that's
going to be starting to pile up from EnerGov, whether we're going to do that as
we're going to purchase storage or we're going to lease it?
MR. UEHARA: I believe the decision was to lease it from Tyler.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. Is that going to go into Public Works or your budget, the
storage?
MR. UEHARA: I'm not sure. I'll have to check.
MS. KIMBALL: Director Sako, do you know? Public Works or ? It'll
probably go into the Public Works. Okay.
We already had one server go down. I know that you still have others that are
getting close to end of life. What are we looking at there in terms of getting
additional funding for more hardware for you folks, and of course building that
redundancy?
MR. UEHARA: Right now because of the budget cuts, we've put them all into
the supplemental budget request.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. What's that figure in the supplemental request?
MR. UEHARA: The total request for the supplementals are $3,132,372, but
that's all the supplemental requests combined. I didn't break it out by the end-of-
life hardware.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. Just wanting to know so that we can be paying attention
and some of this federal funding, if there's cyber infrastructure hardware around,
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you know, our information systems, we have stuff ready to go to put in for grant
requests and things like that.
Just wanted to support you on the big data conversation and just kind of bring in
this whole systems thinking approach. You know, one of the reasons that I've
talked about with some of the other departments is determining the metrics and
determining how we prioritize things, is because often in the arena with lots and
lots of data, there's actually very few components of the data that you make the
decision on. And so rather than saying we should integrate everything so we can
have everything, and we can make decisions, really the place to start is, this is
how we actually make decisions. Where do we have to pull the data from to get
that answer?
And so I agree with you fully that integration should not necessarily be the end all
be all or the expectation, especially if it's a one-off question; we only need to
know this for this one particular case but really to step back and think about our
decision-making process before we go.
So long story, but basically supporting the fact that there's protection of the data
in that way as well from the cyber security standpoint to limit those integrations if
they're unnecessary. So just wanting to back you up on that. That's all the
questions I have. Thanks again for everything you do, appreciate it. I yield,
Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms.
Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Aloha, Director. Great to see you. I
just have a few questions and I'm sorry I entered the discussion a little bit late, so
I apologize if you covered this, but maybe use it as an opportunity to expand. A
couple budget cycles ago, this body asked the Department of IT to put together a
strategic plan. I believe that was something that the former director was putting
the finishing touches on. But just wondering if you could provide us an update on
that. Again, sorry if you already did. But maybe expand upon it. And if it's not
done, maybe just share with us any obstacles in the way preventing you from
completing that.
MR. UEHARA: Sure. I think the former director actually did complete the IT
strategic plan and roadmap. I believe it's posted on the intranet, currently, on the
DIT page. There are a lot of things I agree with. And of course being a new
director, you asked Director Adams the same question. You know, every director
has kind of their own take on operations. So while I agree with the majority of it,
there are some things that I do want to make changes to. But again, my role is to
make sure that I understand what we currently have, to try and do as little
disruption as possible in the beginning, and once I get an understanding of the
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people, the technologies and the reason why we're doing these things, then it's to
start making some changes at that point. So I believe the strategic plan is done
but I would like to make a few changes to it.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Great, certainly because you're leading the department
now, and we do welcome a refresh at the appropriate time. The other question I
had was related to some emails we've been getting about down servers. I did
pose this question to Director Sako yesterday, because it was shared that about
two months' worth of data was lost within Finance. So assuming a number of
departments had been impacted,just looking for what the next step is going to be.
My understanding is this pretty unprecedented with this volume of information
being lost. Not looking at you to assign any blame,just looking to better
understand what happened, what precautions are going to be put into place, and if
any sort of audit of the situation is going to be conducted.
MR. UEHARA: Sure. So what happened was on—excuse me, I'm going to take
a look at my notes for a second. On the night of March 24h, inside of our server
room, we had two AC (Air Conditioning)units go down. They just stopped
functioning which caused the server room to overheat naturally, without any type
of cooling. All the servers running, it increased in temperature. The server that
did go down overheated and shut down on its own to protect itself. The morning
of March 25h, we had our analyst self-dispatch out to go investigate. They found
the room was overheated. When they restarted the server or turned it on, they
noticed some of the hard drives were not operating correctly.
So at that point we made the decision to decommission that server, because it
wasn't sound operationally at that point. What we've done since that point is to
take—we actually had planned on migrating data off of that server onto a newer
server. So we had taken those copies of data and moved it off to the new server.
Since then we've been working on making sure that everybody has the correct
permissions to their data.
After that, in part of the data recovery process, we have contracted with a data
recovery specialist. We have sent the hard drives over to them and they're in the
process now of investigating to see if additional data can be pulled off the hard
drives.
In terms of response for making sure that this doesn't happen again, we're taking
a look at all backup systems, making sure that we check that they're working.
Something that I'm working on is creating policies to make sure that we have
staff taking a look at the backups on a daily, a normal working day process, to
make sure that it's being run correctly and to make sure that we have more than
just one staff member who understands how to do that. So that, again, because we
have some staff shortages, to makes sure that everybody on the team understands
how to do it.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for that. And I'm assuming that we're going to
stay in touch with Public Works on AC issues so that this doesn't happen again.
MR. UEHARA: Yeah. Sorry, I forgot to mention. Director Rodenhurst has been
very, very active and he's made sure that the AC units have been repaired. So this
past Monday a control board for the AC unit was replaced, and we did make sure
that it went through fail-over testing. So if one AC unit went out, the other AC
would still keep on working. So we made sure that test occurred, and it did pass.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. That's great. I mean, we all want to bring the
services of government online, digitize our operations so they're much more
efficient. But if we're not making these investments in the critical infrastructure,
we're not going to be able to achieve that goal. So do keep in touch with us. I'm
interested in getting a copy of your supplementals. Actually, Managing Director
Lee Lord is here. Lee, I'm going to put forward a communication requesting that
we get all supplementals for all departments. I think it's important for us to get a
copy of that information that way we know what's on the wish list of the various
departments and we can see what's possible if there are ways in which we can
kind of move some resources around. But certainly want to make sure we
understand what your needs are so that we can best support you. Thanks,
Director. Chair, I yield.
MR. UEHARA: Thank you very much.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Kona?
Rebecca? Okay, Mr. Richards, go ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: Thanks, Chair. Just a follow up, Director. You're just
touching on the backup and the equipment life of your backup systems. I assume
you have staggered backup systems as far as age and their redundancy there.
Again, do we have a planned budget to replace some of these backup systems
coming forward? Because I know that was a big issue just very recently.
MR. UEHARA: Yeah, before in previous budgets it was included. Again, when
we call for budget reductions, we're at the point of keeping, what we like say
"keeping the legs running." So we're paying bills for connectivity,
communication for telephone systems. We prioritize those first on the budget,
because we know we need to keep those services running. And we had to make
some hard decisions, and this is where some of these decisions have led us. We
know these equipment are about to become end of life and we still need it, so we
put it on the supplemental.
MR. RICHARDS: And maybe I missed it but rough number for specifically the
backup. You don't have to quote it now. But if we—it reminds me of the Fire
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Department and their planned equipment replacement each year. I assume we
should be heading towards some program like that so we're replacing whatever, a
certain level every year. If you could come up with number for that and whether
it's in the supplemental budget or whatever. That's something I think we should
know because the cost of losing the data is probably staggering. I don't even
want to venture a guess on that one as far as man hours and all. So I think that's
something this Council would be very interested in knowing what that cost would
be. So thanks, Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Lee Loy,
go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. And actually this is more for Managing
Director Lord. You know, we had a robust discussion around a needs assessment
for DPW and this information about the air conditioning, I think we also need to
add that in as part of the needs assessment. If you could share that, backpack
through your channels, that would be helpful. Thank you, Chair. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. Yeah,just following up on the comments from my
colleagues. You know, one of the things that you did mention was a need for a
data center upgrade. I think we've talked about it in other context but also
whether or not we want to shift to storing stuff remotely or continue to maintain
that need. Obviously, security issues there and access issues being in the middle
of the Pacific. But what are your thoughts sort of generally on which trajectory
we should take whether it's maintaining our own capabilities for storage or
actually looking at more remote storage?
MR. UEHARA: I took a look at that one. A lot of discussion was initially cloud
backup. Everybody wants to move to the cloud. There are a lot of providers that
provide cloud backup solutions. I found that a lot of them, while it's easy to send
our data to the providers, they really hold you by the purse strings when you want
to get the data back. So that is something that if we do want to go off-island, we
definitely need to consider the cost to get the data back for us. Right now the
thought is to keep data on-island, either in our Hilo data centers or our West
Hawaii Civic Center data center. Right now, I believe the team and I agree, we
should utilize both because right now it's a no cost option because we already
have it. So we want to keep on utilizing that.
MS. KIMBALL: Great. Thank you. So the $3.2 roughly million that you
mentioned before with supplementals, does that include the upgrades for the data
center that you have inquired or is that another pot of money that you guys are
going to need?
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MR. UEHARA: Nope, that does include the data center upgrades, yes.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, great. Thank you so much. Tim, we should talk. You
actually have a facility in your district that Hawaiian TelCom owns that could
actually become a data center at some point if we need additional space. I don't
know if you knew about that. But we should talk. Alright, thank you, Scott. I
yield, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Anyone else?
Hearing nothing. Thank you for your time today. I appreciate it. Ms.
Kierkiewicz mentioned that somewhere last year, we had a pretty lengthy
discussion about supplemental requests. I think it stemmed from a conversation
that Mitch had with different staff members. And that transformed into a
communication from Mr. Chung, so that we could all understand what each
department had requested. But I don't see that this year, which I find interesting.
Deanna, did we get a packet of supplemental requests? Nobody asked for it.
Okay. Good. Okay, thank you. I guess you got your work cut out for you now,
because I'm guessing it's not a small stack of papers. It would be beautiful on a
nice spreadsheet laid out by department, you know, by district. Whatever it looks
like, it would be nice to see that. It would be real easy to put together. But we do
have to have a deadline for that, too, yeah. Thank you,
Ms. Kierkiewicz.
Scott, I think knowing what you need is going to help us understand where you
need to go. I mean just for me, I ran the numbers in your budget, you're not
asking for much more than you set out for in the previous years during non-
COVID years. So I saw some of the contract increases, you know, where it
could've been repair and maintenance. What is the Microsoft Government E3
Agreement?
MR. UEHARA: So Microsoft changed their licensing terms. So instead of
purchasing licenses one time, now they're moving to a subscription-based model.
So instead of buying Microsoft Office or Windows just one time, now we have to
pay a subscription fee to own the license. So it's going to be a continual line item
on the budget.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: For a yearly thing, every year?
MR. UEHARA: Every year.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow, so $364,000 a year.
MR. UEHARA: Yes.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's incredible. Thank you, Microsoft.
That's wonderful. Cisco Smartnet maintenance, $161,000 a year.
MR. UEHARA: That is for all our
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Or is that not per year. I misspoke there.
MR. UEHARA: Yeah, so the Cisco Smartnet, that is our maintenance for all our
network switches that power connectivity for all the County buildings. So that's
to make sure that we get the proper firmware updates which cover us for cyber
security purposes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. There is some very substantialI
mean in this 5118.02, in 109, under that section. I mean are those yearly or are
these going to be one times? Because you have some substantial ones in here,
$88,000, $86,000. Should we expect to see that every year?
MR. UEHARA: Every year, yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow, that's heavy. Okay. And that's, I
mean $350,000 more than you did in 2019-2020. So this will be an increased cost
forever on for this department?
MR. UEHARA: Yes. It will be continued. And the reason why you see that
difference is there was an increase. Microsoft calls it, "shoring up"the license
agreements. So up until that point we're only paying for a certain amount of
licenses, and then we shore it up, and then we had to start paying for all the
licenses that we owned.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ouch. How many licenses do we have?
MR. UEHARA: I couldn't say off the top of my head. I could get you that
number though.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Estimate, what do you think? Is it just like
one per computer that we have?
MR. UEHARA: It is one per user.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: One per user.
MR. UEHARA: Yeah. So I would say, I'd want to say about 1,800.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow. Okay. And then down to 111, you
have a pretty substantial increase over the last two years; about$200,000. And I
see that Nutanix lease and PC leases.
MR. UEHARA: Yeah, so the big one there is the Nutanix lease for GIS
(Geographic Information System), line item four. That one is new for this year.
And that one is to upgrade our GIS systems.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And the PC leases?
MR. UEHARA: PC leases.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: For $108,000.
MR. UEHARA: That is our regular leases for our workstations for the whole
County.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: For the whole County.
MR. UEHARA: Yup.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And we're leasing PC's?
MR. UEHARA: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Like normal personal computers. Lease to
own?
MR. UEHARA: Yup.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So that cost should go down. What's the
terms on the lease, five years?
MR. UEHARA: I'd have to check on the lease terms. But if anything this
shouldn't go away because this should be part of a life cycle model, whereas PCs
are expiring we're ordering new ones. So hoping to make sure this number
doesn't fluctuate too much. The only reason why it would fluctuate is if we're
adding on more users or we need more PCs for some reason.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So a Nutanix lease, same thing?
MR. UEHARA: No. That one should go away after three years.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Three-year lease. But the PC leases
will be
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MR. UEHARA: Ongoing.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: An ongoing cost. Just to put it out there,
Mayor, I know PCs tend to go out of style pretty quick. And you purchase
something like a car, you know, you can purchase a car, you can lease it. But if
you buy a car, you pay it off and you get another ten years out of it that's a big
plus for, you know, your normal person. But so for a computer
MR. UEHARA: It's a little hard when we do it that model because what will
happen, and I've seen it time and time again with other government agencies, you
purchase it and then because it's no longer a line item, nobody ever talks about
life-cycle equipment. So I've seen government agencies that have 12-year-old
computers that we can't get parts on. When people turn on their computers, they
literally know to walk away for the next half an hour as it starts up and gets ready
to do something.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's me.
MR. UEHARA: So, you know, we're trying to avoid that situation.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You have that problem too, Tim?
MR. RICHARDS: My old one, yeah.
MR. UEHARA: So we're trying to avoid that situation. So, you know, that's all
work productivity lost. So even though we're saving a few dollars here and there,
just imagine that every morning, five days a week for 52 weeks, you're coming in
and for the first half an hour you're just not doing anything.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You've got to get them warmed up like a
diesel and get like an auto-start feature on your keychain and "boop" it on your
way into the office. Okay. Dropping down, 115, you know, same thing, you've
stepped up pretty substantially from 2019-2020. It looks like you have ESRI
(Environmental Systems Research Institute) relicensing and MLPS (Multilevel
Protection Scheme) Managed Services.
MR. UEHARA: Yeah, the MLPS Managed Services, we received new
networking equipment, or I shouldn't say new. We received equipment from
Maui County and that helped us create a redundant network. So before with the
County network, if we had some place in Hamakua go down, literally everybody
from Hamakua all the way to Ka`u would not have connectivity until that location
at Hamakua either repaired or rebooted. With the equipment that we got, now we
can sustain those types of hits where if one site goes out, we can reroute the
network and keep connectivity going.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You're talking about, I mean, not
residential customers
MR. UEHARA: No. This is for the County only.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This is for the County facilities.
MR. UEHARA: Correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. UEHARA: So that's what that contract service gets us, is maintenance on all
that equipment to make sure we don't suffer those types of outages anymore.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And that is an ongoing cost from
here on out.
MR. UEHARA: That is an ongoing cost. And the Esri ongoing also, that's our
GIS (Geographic Information System) licensing.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, wow. What's the big drop in your
337 account?
MR. UEHARA: That I would need to research. I don't have the budget back
from 2019 to see the difference on it.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, okay. Deanna, do you know?
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's where we moved the Microsoft licenses.
It used to be under subscriptions, and we just changed the category.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then Deanna. Sorry, while I
got you there. What I've seen with a lot of departments is they're able to pull
from different funds or from different grants. Does IT receive no grants or any
other funding sources other than general?
MS. SAKO: No. Just General Fund. That's it.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow.
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MR. UEHARA: No, we do get grants. We have gotten Homeland Security
grants before.
MS. SAKO: Sorry. It's not in your guy's budget, yes.
MR. UEHARA: Yeah, it's not in the budget. But we do get grant opportunities
also.
MS. SAKO: So Civil Defense's Homeland Security grant they—for like IT
infrastructure and that type of thing or cyber security type of stuff. They do share
that with Police, Fire, and IT.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So split up amongst all the different IT
departments.
MS. SAKO: Yeah. Each of them kind of do proposals each year and help to
distribute that. But yeah, it runs through Civil Defense.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I mean, given the discussion we had
and what's out there in funding, I'd like to see you guys shifting more towards
getting some different funding opportunities so we can help cover these costs with
grants. It's got to be out there. I mean, watching COVID, everyone moving to
work from home. Do you guys, I mean, do you feel comfortable applying for
grants and doing that? Do you do that?
MR. UEHARA: Yes. We do apply for grants. Again, it's been through
Homeland Security. Some of the discussions, very preliminary though, is the idea
with some of these federal funds coming down through the ARPA (American
Rescue Plan Act) or the new infrastructure plan, the idea is instead of sending
money to the ISP's (Internet Service Provider) such as Spectrum or Hawaiian
Telcom, the idea would be if we contract a third parry vendor to install fiber optic
cables in some of these areas that do not have fiber optics, and then the County
will own the cables and we could resell it back to Spectrum and Hawaiian
Telcom. So instead of them having to lay out their own infrastructure we'd have
what we call, "dark fiber" out there and we could actually rent it back out to these
ISP's. Kind of the same way we do with radio stations and the radio towers. So
that is very preliminary. I'm saying it but we haven't done a lot of research into
this one.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's interesting. Sounds ominous, dark
fiber.
MR. UEHARA: Basically, with fiber optics you're shooting light through it. So
when there's no light going through it, we call it dark fiber. So basically unused
fiber is called dark fiber.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So they install it, we install it.
MR. UEHARA: Nope. The third parry would install it, we would own the
cables, and then at that point we would get into agreements to lease it. And the
third parry would still be kept on to do maintenance of the cables.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's interesting.
MR. UEHARA: Again, very preliminary. I do not have a lot of details and call
structures. But it's something that started asking about.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's cool. Thank you for looking into
that. You know, during CARES (Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic
Security Act) did you guys get funding to do with upgrades to the system at all,
any of the CARES funding go to you guys?
MR. UEHARA: Yes, we did. That is part of the 10-gigabyte infrastructure
upgrade. We got$2.8 million to make that upgrade.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Good. Any other funding, Deanna,
they can—we're out of CARES funding already. Anything coming forward that
IT could use potentially? Okay, not that she's aware of. Okay. Well I appreciate
your time. Unless there's any questions from any other Council Members, Kona,
you're all set? Rebecca gave me the thumbs up. Thank you. Okay. Thank you,
Scott. Appreciate your time today.
MR. UEHARA: Thank you very much, Council.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's good thank you. We're going to
move onto our next department. Anybody want a quick recess, or we could just
go right to the Police? Okay, five-minute break. Okay, recess.
Recess: At 3:09 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 3:13 p.m.
(5) Hawaii County Police Department:
(Note: At this time, Police Chief Paul K. Ferreira, Deputy Chief Kenneth
Bugado, and Assistant Chief Samuel Jelsma came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Aloha and welcome back to the Special
Committee on Finance budget hearings. We are going to get started. Kona, can
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you hear me? Okay, Rebecca, can you hear me? Good. Okay. We have
Rebecca Villegas joining us by Zoom. Holeka Inaba is in the Kona facility. And
you have all the members here in Hilo.
Chief, thank you for joining us today with your staff. Please introduce everybody
and yourself. And then go ahead and break it down for us and we'll go from there
with questions.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Good afternoon, Council Members. First, I will introduce
myself.
Paul Ferreira, I'm the Police Chief. To my left is Deputy Police Chief Kenneth
Bugado. To my right is Assistant Chief Samuel Jelsma from our administrative
bureau. And behind me to my left, probably the most important person here for
us is our Accountant IV, Ms. Hau`oli Aiona. She's the one that keeps up aligned
fiscally, me especially.
Before I begin on our budget issues, I want to thank the County Council for the
proclamation recognizing the hard work and dedication of the Police and Fire
Radio Dispatchers, during this years' National Public Safety Telecommunicator's
Week, which began on April 1 lth, Sunday, and ends with April 17''. The
proclamation was delivered to the dispatchers this past Tuesday during a small
ceremony during the third watch. And I know it was greatly appreciated. So
from them, from us, thank you very much for doing that.
According to our message, I know no one wants to hear that it's a status-quo
budget. But as we do enter into yet another fiscal year with a status-quo budget,
the Police Department, like the rest of the County, needed to identify cuts in our
operating accounts so as to allow County Finance to balance the budget. It's
never an easy task, more specially because as was earlier stated and I heard some
of the testimony, 60-plus percent of our budget is related to salaries and wages.
And these are the only increases that we saw in our budgets.
But now during this current upcoming fiscal year the difficult task is even
compounded more, and I'm speaking to the choir, by the COVID-19 pandemic
that is going on. When you review our budget submittals you will see a narrative
that we have demonstrated with established specific objectives within each of our
operational units to meet the goals of ensuring public safety. These include
aggressive enforcement campaigns as well as educational campaigns. However,
again because of the COVID pandemic, we've had to adjust our strategies in how
we continue to provide these services while ensuring the health and welfare of our
employees, their families, and the community members that we come in contact
with.
Again, like others in the community, we were faced with some unique challenges
because of the COVID-19 pandemic. But I want to state that from the onset the
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Police Department continued our 24/7 operations; we continued our business
services, our operations, firearms, permits, registrations, records, disbursal, all of
those in-person things that we do daily. All of our offices were open. We did
have safeguards in place minimizing the exposure for our employees as well as
the public, again, to minimize the spread of the COVID-19 virus.
As with other first responders, our resources were strained during this time, not
only from the challenges surrounding the health and welfare aspect, but we were
also faced with additional enforcement challenges because of proclamations that
were done and trying to ensure that we don't spread the virus any more than it
was being. And now we're continuing that without any CARES funding. So
we're continuing without any extra supplemental funds, using our own budget. I
can say that through all of this I am confident that during this difficult time, the
Police Department responded to the needs of the community and actively attended
to achieving the department goals and objectives in serving the community.
As the Police Chief, I feel that I am responsible for all the personnel within my
department. I for one am very grateful for all the efforts that have been put forth
by everyone in minimizing the spread and the effects of the COVID-19 virus. I
am very thankful that within our department we've had very minimal, single-
digit, positive cases and absolutely no deaths. During initial months of the
pandemic I would read daily national reports of law enforcement officers that
have lost their lives contracting the COVID-19 virus while on duty. Soto that
extent, I wish to thank everyone that has done their part in minimizing the spread.
Moving on. As in previous years with our revenue, the department consistently
seeks out alternate revenue sources to augment our budget and allow us to
continue our mission. These funding opportunities through federal and State
grants should be identified in our budget submittals as well. And these funds
provide essential training as well as equipment, and at times will also provide
overtime necessary to complete our mission.
I know what's on everyone's mind usually is what is our staffing like, how many
officers do we have out there. Well, moving into this challenge, the sworn
staffing for the Hawaii Police Department consists of 483 authorized full-time
positions. We service an area of 4,031 square miles, again speaking to the choir.
And you can put the rest of the State here and you'd still have enough room to
build something else. It's like the rail. Sorry about that. I couldn't resist.
As of April 1st, and this is not April fools either, the department has had 57 sworn
vacant positions, ranging from a commander down to a patrol officer. But this
number does not accurately reflect what's going on out in the field. We currently
have the 93rd Police Recruit Class that consists of 18 police recruits. They are
currently in the field training officer or the OJT (On-the Job Training)phase of
their training. So if you add this 18 to the 57, it equates to 75 vacant positions out
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in the field that we currently have. You're talking a little over—almost 15 or 16
percent of our workforce is vacant. Good news is the Police Recruit Class
graduates or finishes their field training on June 16th and will hit the streets and
will again supplement the different patrol positions in the various districts.
We do an active recruitment and a very aggressive recruitment. And thank you
very much to the Department of Human Resources, County. They have been
helping my staff, our staff in our HR Division in doing these recruitments. We
currently have two recruitments ongoing in various stages. The first was posted
on June 24, 2020, and that is correct, 2020, almost a year ago. To start the 94th
Police Recruit Class, we have 62 candidates remaining going through the process
and we're targeting a June 1st°2021, class start date. We will hire as many
officers as we can provided, they pass their screening. I know from past record,
historically, we will not get 62 if we have 62 now.
So we have a second recruitment that was just opened in February. The written
exam was just given in April, the first week of this month. And for this
recruitment we're targeting a class start date of the first quarter or the first couple
months in 2022. That's how far ahead we will look.
As for our department non-sworn personnel, civilian personnel, we have currently
155 authorized positions. Currently we have 25 vacancies. Again, almost 15
percent. The disturbing part is that 14 of these positions are Police Radio
Dispatcher positions. I've come before this body before and had to answer
questions regarding this. This is another challenge that the department faces. It's
because of the stressors of the job, the position, the uniqueness of the job. But it's
not something that is isolated to Hawaii County. It is a common occurrence
across the nation for emergency 911 dispatchers. That's why it's so important
when can recognize their dedication, that we do. The good news is we've just
completed a recruitment for Police Radio Dispatchers and on Friday we will start
a Police Radio Dispatcher class consisting of eight candidates bringing that
vacancy down considerably. Unfortunately, like police officers, the retention
once they get into the training, once they get into the actual nuts and bolts of
being dispatchers, we don't retain all of them. They will leave.
One of the things that has happened with our dispatch center that will help with
our retention, I believe, is we recently did an upgrade in the dispatch center. If
you've been in our dispatch center previously and haven't gone there since
November of last year, then you should take a look. It's been upgraded. The
consoles have been upgraded. It looks absolutely wonderful. But it's still not
adequate. We still need that dispatch center,joint communications center for
Police and Fire built on Moho`uli Street. I understand that it's going forward.
It's a joint mission between Police and Fire. Bids are in. Hopefully we break
ground soon. I'm just hoping for it.
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One of the other achievements for the department during this fiscal year was the
acquisition and deployment of our body-worn cameras. We were the last in the
State to do it, yes. We waited for everyone else to make the mistakes, learned
from their mistakes, and we pushed our program forward. So using funding from
fiscal year 2019-2020 is how we purchased the equipment. The initial
deployment was on November 9, 2020, and it involved our busiest districts, the
patrol divisions of South Hilo, Kona, and Puna. Subsequently, on Christmas Eve
we deployed the remaining cameras to the patrol divisions of South Kohala, North
Kohala, Hamakua, and Ka`u. So all of our patrol divisions across the island and
our traffic enforcement unit are equipped with body-worn cameras. We're
currently asking for more funding through a grant to secure more cameras for
patrol supervisors and our specialized units. So we are looking to expand the
program.
And again, the other item was the Police Communications Dispatch Center
upgrade. That was done on November 2020, and it was utilizing funds from the
E-911 board or the E-911 funds, State E-911 Fund, which is why it was so
imperative when the legislature this year tried to raid that fund that we all
provided testimony in saying, "We need this money,"because it funds a lot of
programs for our department and our communications center.
In closing, I would be remiss at this time if I didn't recognize the outstanding
efforts from our Department's Administration and Finance sections in
continuously monitoring our department budgets and making the necessary
adjustments, making the necessary transfers, to make sure that we can operate
effectively. When I said, Hauoli, was the most important person here, I was not
kidding. I wasn't joking. I really meant it. She does keep us in line fiscally and
for that I'm very grateful.
I'm also very grateful to all of our command staff in the operations sections; our
Patrol Division and Specialized Units and their staff for minimizing the cost that
are out there for them; overtime, equipment, what have you, because without
them we would be in dire straits right now.
Keeping it short. Thank you very much for this opportunity. And I will leave
now if you don't have any questions or stick around if you do.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I think there may be questions.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Wishful thinking.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'll open up to the Council. Thank you for
that, Chief, and for the little bit of humor in the middle of that. It's much needed
today. Let's go to Kona. Holeka, do you have any comments, questions? Are
you there?
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MR. INABA: Yeah. Hi, Chief Ferreira. Thank you for being here. Just a quick
question. Well let me make a quick comment first. This budget is so clearly
outlined. So kudos to the department for putting something so clear forward.
With it being clear, I see across the different stations what seems to add up as
millions, I think, in overtime. Just if you could explain what is the department
doing to try and keep that in line both this year and I guess over the long term?
CHIEF FERREIRA: Overtime is always a challenge for the Police Department.
I've come before this Council before and have been asked why do you budget,
example, $10 million for overtime when you spend $20 million. It's an unknown.
We don't know what our overtime is going to be like. So we minimize it by
trying to adjust our work schedules. We minimize it by trying to keep officers
well and healthy and not having them go our sick. We look at our schedules,
what can we do in that aspect. We look at also when we schedule projects, that
we give them ample time, so we're not faced with a collective bargaining
situation where we have to pay penalties because you're less than 12 hours rest or
less than 48 hours' notice. So those are ways we try to minimize our overtime
budgets.
Unfortunately, in our line of work, at 3:30 when they're completing their shift
they cannot say, "Sorry, I gotta leave. Someone else is going to come back to
takeover." So overtime is the cost of doing business in our profession. I hope
that explains it in a sense.
MR. INABA: Got it. Thank you. And I see some overtime is for, I don't know if
it's officers on the line. It says, for admin services, for technical services. Does
that explanation apply to them as well?
CHIEF FERREIRA: We have an overtime budget assigned to each of our
sections knowing that, you know, there will be overtime incurred. More
specially, like our Communications Dispatch Section. Being 14 Communication
Dispatchers down, we do have to overlap shifts, we do have to have them stay
longer. As far as our technical services, that's where the dispatch center comes
under. Our radio shop comes under the dispatch center. When there's a radio
antenna goes down or if there's a natural disaster, like the heavy rains that we're
having, and we have issues with our radio communications, we bring them in on
overtime as well. So we always have placeholders in all of these areas for
overtime to address specific needs as they come up. Anything that is not utilized
is utilized for salaries and wages and strictly for salaries and wages. They cannot
be transferred anywhere else. So we'll utilize any leftover cash that we may have
to pay cash in lieu's when we have someone retiring and we have to pay out their
vacation payroll, and those sorts of things.
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MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. And big mahalo to you because it seems you
have a very good handle on what the department is doing. So, Chair, at this time
that's all I have in terms of questions for the budget. Mahalo.
CHIEF FERREIRA: One comment, sir.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The Chief has a comment.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Council Member Inaba, I want to also thank you for
recognizing the Police and Fire Fighters on the Public Safety Committee meeting.
I believe the Fire Fighter was this last month and the Police is coming up in May.
Again, thank you very much for that.
MR. INABA: Thank you for the opportunity and for providing that name already
and being on it. Looking forward to working together with you for future awards.
Mahalo, Chair. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That was a very nice thing that he started
doing. So mahalo for saying that. Rebecca, you want to go ahead?
MS. VILLEGAS: No thank you. I'll wait. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Ms.
Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: I'll just ask a couple quick questions now. What is the
CID-JAB-VICE, what is that category?
CHIEF FERREIRA: Try again.
MS. KIMBALL: CID-JAB-VICE, 5206. I'm just asking because I have no idea
what that means.
CHIEF FERREIRA: CID-JAB-VICE OCE (Other Current Expenses - 5206.02)?
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Okay.
MS. KIMBALL: What the heck is that?
CHIEF FERREIRA: I'm sorry. Having done this so long, you know, you assume
that everybody knows what our acronyms are, and I should've come out with an
explanation.
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MS. KIMBALL: Not us newbies.
CHIEF FERREIRA: I'm very sorry for that. What it is, is our Criminal
Investigations Division. What we have is, the Police Department is broken down
into eight districts. It's not following the Council Districts, it's more in line with
the judicial districts. And we split the island in half, primarily. We have an Area
1, which consists of the Districts Hamakua, North Hilo, South Hilo, and Puna.
And we have Area 2, which consists of the Districts of Ka`u, Kona, North Kohala,
and South Kohala. In each district you have a Patrol Captain Division and Patrol
Officers Assigned. In Area 1 and in Area 2, on each side of the island we have
what we call the Criminal Investigations Division. That is the CID. The JAB is
the Juvenile Aide Bureau. They handle all juvenile cases. They also handle all
sexual assault cases. The vice is self-explanatory. It's our Vice Division. They
handle narcotics morals. And CIS Division, Criminal Investigations Section is
the adult version of the juvenile section. They handle all adult felonies, homicide,
cases of that nature. They're our detectives. They're the specialized units. So
that is where you see the CID-JAB-VICE.
MS. KIMBALL: Got it. Okay. Thanks for that.
CHIEF FERREIRA: No. No problem. Sorry, I didn't explain that earlier.
MS. KIMBALL: I mean, there's lots of acronyms in this book. I'm going to
have to get a cheat sheet for myself. The other question I had, came up earlier
today in our conversation with the Prosecutor's Office. Just the ability for victims
to, in some of the areas of the island, like Waimea, like the southern part of the
island, particular talking about sexual assault. Mr. Richards brought it up, being
able to get the testing done in some of these remote locations. What do you guys
have in the books for improving that sort of access?
CHIEF FERREIRA: Again, another acronym, SANE, our Sexual Assault Nurse
Examiner Program. What we've done, and this happened quite a few years ago
is, to do a sexual assault examination is very entailed, it's very specialized, it's
become very specialized. And to hire a nurse with the department would be
impractical, and probably impossible. So fiscally what we've done is, with one
time we had a sexual assault nurse examiner coordinator. And we found out that
wasn't working. So we went out through a grant through the VAWA grant,
Violence Against Women grant, and we established a Sexual Assault Nurse
Examiner Program, which is on both sides of the islands. And we have nurse
examiners in Kona, South Kohala, and Hilo.
Again, the exams that are done are very entailed, they're very detailed. So we
have a facility, an area, to work out of at the Hilo Medical Center. We also have a
facility in the Kona Medical Center, which are both partially State funded. We
didn't have and we don't have an examination room in South Kohala. So it
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wasn't a matter of being able to send the examiner there to do the examination.
Unfortunately, it was that we had to bring that patient in to either Hilo or Kona to
have the exam done. I spoke to Lieutenant Finkey (Sandor)this morning, from
Juvenile Aide, after I cheated. I heard some of the testimony.
MS. KIMBALL: That's allowed. That's called preparation.
CHIEF FERREIRA: I followed up with him and I did confirm with him that a
nurse examiners facility is in the works in South Kohala, attached with the North
Hawaii Medical Center, if I'm pronouncing that one right. But it's a separate
clinic facility. So right now, because of COVID and the amount of people that
could be allowed in there were some hang-ups, but they are in the works. We do
have an examiner out in the South Kohala area so it's not an issue of not having a
nurse there. So yes, we do recognize that issue. We don't want to victimize the
victims again as much as possible, but we need the exams done. And the sooner
the better so we can get a successful prosecution. So yes, we are working towards
getting a facility in South Kohala that will service that area. Unfortunately, I
don't know that we have one in Ka`u or North Kohala, in that area.
MS. KIMBALL: Along that same lines, what is the level of interest or potential
for investment either at the County or the State level for our own ability to do the
DNA testing that is related to sexual assault cases? Because we still send them to
the mainland, right, to do the DNA analysis?
CHIEF FERREIRA: We also send test kits to Oahu, the Honolulu Police
Department.
MS. KIMBALL: They do have the capacity there.
CHIEF FERREIRA: They have a DNA facility there as well.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay.
CHIEF FERREIRA: It's just the turnaround time, certain tests need to be done
off-island, out of State. I know the State as a whole is looking at what kind of
testing facilities can be made available through the State Department of Health. I
know there were discussions about a facility in Honolulu that they were looking at
transition.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, because we're still kind of behind in the capacity to get
some of those tests done.
CHIEF FERREIRA: I believe we're still on track with, you know, trying to get
the test done as soon as possible.
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MS. KIMBALL: Okay, okay. Anything that you guys in particular have that is
being cut by the State that you would typically get some funding from the State
this cycle?
CHIEF FERREIRA: We haven't gotten notified of any funds that have been
taken away, even from our current grants that we have out there. The one that
was coming up on the chopping block that we were worried about was the 911
Fund. Fortunately, that died very quickly. Our other grants,pretty much we have
been applying and we have been receiving the funding. We haven't seen it cut
back.
One of the issues that we'll see and I'm not sure if it's in the paperwork that we
gave you is, if you go back and look at our grants for this fiscal year, because of
the COVID pandemic a lot of grants are earmarked, the funding is earmarked for
training, travel, equipment, what have you. Or even like the DUI grants, they're
geared for roadblocks. But we're not doing those. We're not traveling, we're not
doing the training, so we have this excess funds. Fortunately, for us, our Traffic
Services Coordinator, Torey Keltner, is on top of it and he tries to reprogram
these funds, trying to get more equipment, trying to get training, bringing the
different type of training because it's spelt out in the grant what the training was.
So reprogramming it saying, "Okay, we cannot go to this location to get the
training, so can we bring someone here to do the training for us," and that kind of
thing.
So yes, we haven't seen any real drastic changes. And Hau`oli, correct me if I'm
wrong. Again, she's the one that keeps me in line.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. What's the turnover on the dispatchers? Like
what's the rate of turnover, and for officers?
CHIEF FERREIRA: As far as the turnover on officers, the retention it goes by
spurts. The problem is we're always playing catch up because by the end of the
year we have retirements. I know of two retirements that are not included in this
projection. And right now if I look at all the officers that have been here a while
that have 25 years or more that are eligible for retirement, I have 20 officers that
will be eligible by the end of this year. The gentlemen with me, and myself as
well. So, you know, it can happen at any time.
There are many triggers for it, you know, issues that go on across the nation
involving law enforcement is a trigger. When we had the very tragic incident
involving Officer Kaliloa, that was a trigger. Anything can trigger officers
deciding, "Okay, this isn't for me, I've had enough, I've seen enough. It's time
for me to move on."
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For our Communications Dispatch section, the turnover is during the training
process. Once they get in there and they're there a while, we're seeing them stay.
We're seeing them do the work, and they have a passion for it. I love them, they
have a passion for it. They're very dedicated at what they do. I could not do what
they do, and I tell them that. I could not deal with it. They're on an emotional
rollercoaster that officers do not see because take a call, drop down, take another
call, drop down. When officers see completion, they see a closure. So the
retention or the turnover on the dispatch side is more on the recruitment side when
they're first coming into training. And out of eight I would expect we may lose at
least half.
Out of a recruit class, police recruit class, we normally see if we start a class like
this class of 18, they started at 25. We lost three at the very beginning, onset;
22 made it all the way through the academic training, went into the field training
program, the OJT, and we lost four off the bat. They decided, "It's not for me."
And it isn't, it isn't for everyone.
MS. KIMBALL: I guess one of the gals I used to paddle with was a dispatcher
for you guys, and the paddling was her calm down at the end of the day, you
know, escape. And she ended up leaving. It was just a lot of emotional stress.
And I'm sure Council Member Kierkiewicz will talk about some of the
investment and mental health for you, your officers, and hopefully the dispatchers
as well.
Just one last sort of philosophical over-reaching question. We talked about it also
with the prosecutors earlier today, is shifting some of the investment upstream,
you know, before people need to get involved with you folks. De-escalation
techniques, sensitivity training for folks. What are your thoughts on how the
department is going to invest in the future? I realize right now everybody's just at
the, as you say, status-quo budget. But what are some of the ideas for the future
investment?
CHIEF FERREIRA: You know, I've got to love coin phrases or current words
that are put out there like de-escalation, what type of training they're doing. It's
like verbal judo, is what we teach our officers. You know, how to talk to people.
And I still remember when I took that class when the dinosaurs were roaming.
They instructor came there and he said, "I'm not teaching you anything you didn't
know, I just put a label to it." You do it every day of your lives. You deal with it
every day of your lives. And as officers you learn to deal with it even more so.
So we've been training in that sense all along. It's now we're putting labels on it.
And we continue to train with it, we continue to see what's going on across the
nation. And fortunately what we see across the nation is not transitioned here.
You don't have the despise of the law enforcement community that you have in
the nation. And I attribute that part to because our officers are part of the
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community. They don't live in Oahu and work in Hilo. They live, work, eat, on
the Big Island. And their families are also here.
So yeah, we are doing more training. We are looking at more issues. We do use
of force training. We also look at our use of force policies and I must say, we
have been working very well with Prosecutor Waltjen and First Deputy Frye. We
just had a meeting with them this past Tuesday and they're on top of it. What I
love about it, is our guys call them directly. Our field officers call them directly.
I have no problem with that, that they reach out to them directly and ask them for
assistance. And Prosecutor Waltjen has responded directly to them, or he'll have
his prosecutors come out. So I'm very happy with the collaborative working
relationship we have with them now.
MS. KIMBALL: Great. That's very nice to hear. So this is a closing out. I want
to mahalo the community policing officers in my area. We did a series of talk
stories, and some of the community policing officers came out and hung out with
me and talked to the community. It was really great collaboration. So mahalo for
that. And with that I yield, Chair. Mahalo.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Mr. Chung, go
ahead.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, very briefly. Chief, I just wanted to say I really enjoy your
delivery, you know, the way your address the Council and answer all of the
questions very clearly and in an understandable manner. I really appreciate that,
you know. And I also wanted to say thank you for all the good work that your
department has been doing and not just over this past year, but throughout the
years under your leadership and under, you know,past chiefs. But I wanted to
thank Mr. Richards for letting me go. Because I have to leave and I didn't want
to leave in the middle of you talking, you know,just out of respect to you. But
thank you for all your good work, Chief, all of you. Thank you.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Thank you. And like I told everyone, the accolades go to
the guys that are working. The complaints come to me. Any complaints are
about me. The accolades go to the guys that are working. But thank you very
much.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Mr. Richards, go
ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Thank you. Thanks, Chief. And I'll echo what Mr.
Chung just said concerning that you were very clear, very concise. Couple of
things. First of all, you mentioned retirement, and I know you're not on the list
because you gave me a pinky promise you're not retiring until I'm pau. So just
for the record right there, okay.
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CHIEF FERREIRA: No comments.
MR. RICHARDS: Bugs will back me up on that one. Couple things, Chief. You
talked about you're down about 50 officers now. And if I recall a year ago we
had the same conversation, you were down about 50 officers then and you had a
big recruit class coming up. And so I know you guys are trying to fill the ranks,
but what do we need to do to get more officers quicker? Because this seems to be
a recurring issue and I know it's not for lack of you guys trying to get the
recruitment. And as you said, triggers, you know, when we lost an officer that
changes some people's thinking. But what can we do, or do you have any
thoughts or opinions on that? Because we need the officers. I know you talked
about it. We 483 in 4,000 square miles. And we are geographically huge, and so
we're challenged by that. So thoughts on that.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Yeah, right now we have 57 vacant positions. If you recall
two fiscal years ago the Council, through the Mayor's Office, they put in for 20
new positions. Ten positions for Puna and ten positions for Ka`u. We also got
supervisors, which amounted to 33 sworn position numbers. So if you look back,
we're down around 24 from our original count way back when. It's a cycle. It's
been a cycle for as long as I can remember. We can get the numbers up, but
because of recruitment/retention we lose bodies.
You say how can we get officers on board quicker. I for one will not compromise
quality for quantity. I refuse to do that. We will put everyone through the proper
screening process as much as we can. COVID has put a little damper on us which
is why it stretched out a little while, because we had no in-person interviews. But
how we can get the numbers up, it's not for a lack of not trying. Like I said, we
have 62 positions.
Just to give you an idea of how it plays out, for the 62 officers that we're going to
be screening and hiring before June Ist, otherwise somebody's losing their job.
Me personally, I think. The recruitment opened on June 28, 2020. It closed on
July 7, 2020. Four hundred fifty-six individuals applied. Only 275 actually
showed up for the written exam. Of that 275, 159 actually passed. Now it's an
eighth-grade education test. It's not rocket science. It's more common-sense,
knowledge, book learning a little bit. Out of that 159, only 154 showed up for the
agility test, which is a physical performance test that we give to ensure that
they're able to perform the duties and go through the recruit training. Out of the
154, only 94 passed. We have a lot of candidates that take the test, they pass it,
they go to the agility and figure, "Last week I got off the couch, so I'm good to
go." They're not going to make it. It's not going to happen. We have athletes
that don't make it simply because of the way that they train.
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Out of that 94, from the onset, 13 withdrew, six were no show when we brought
them in for interviews, and 7 of them were dismissed from the very onset. So we
ended up with 62 and that's what we're proceeding here now. Now we're
proceeding into the critical phases of the recruitment, which is a polygraph
examination, the psychological examination, the interview, a drug screening, and
a medical exam. These are the critical components. If they make it through these,
they're on board. Now they've just got to pass the training. So again, we're not
going to compromise quality for quantity. How we're doing it, we're trying as
hard as we can to keep the numbers up.
And by saying we're not going to compromise quality for quantity, we do except
transfers within the State. Because we're on the same bargaining unit, we pretty
much have the same training across the State. We know what the use of force
training, we know what the situation is across the State. And I feel very confident
that I can pick up the phone and call any one of the chiefs on the neighbor islands
or their deputies, or I can have my staff do it, and we're going to get the
low-down on this individual. They're not going to send up someone that is going
to create a problem.
I don't have that comfort zone with someone coming from the mainland. I don't
know half of the departments. A lot of departments across the nation consist of
only 40-plus officers. That recent shooting that just happened where the officer
pulled her firearm as opposed to her taser. They consist of a department of 49.
Across the nation, our department with 483 officers are a considerable-sized
agency and we cover a large area. So again, long story short. Sorry for the long
explanation.
MR. RICHARDS: No, no. But that explains it because the metrics over there,
you start with 450 and you end up with only 62 actually making it to the training
stage and you're going to have attrition there. So it's not like you don't have any
candidates, it's just you're sticking to quality. And so I totally appreciate that. So
that answers that one.
Question about the station, and you and I have talked about this one before. I
know you're building a dispatch, you know, with the fire and police dispatch, but
we've got to do something about the station. And this may be part of a question
for Deanna, because we are hoping that with the Jobs Plan, the American Jobs
Plan coming forward, we're going to have infrastructure funding. How close are
we—and maybe this isn't a question for the Chief, about how close are we to
having a shovel-ready program? Because the station is pretty sad. We need to
and it comes back to, it has to be the core
CHIEF FERREIRA: I can answer part of that. We are currently meeting with
Public Works. I know the engineers were there looking at our facility, looking at
the electric issues, looking at the mezzanine, which is the area between the police
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side and the driver licensing side, looking at putting a cover over that area. And
that is funding through a Homeland Security grant, I believe. So it is being
addressed, not to the level that anybody would want, I believe. But it is being
addressed as much as it can. You know, and having done this long, you realize
that when budget's get tight, which they have been going for a long time, the first
thing to go is training and facility maintenance. That's the first thing. For police
that the worst thing you can take away, is training. That is something you do not
attack. But unfortunately, that is the way of the world. We are trying to address
it.
If you look at our Capital Improvements Project list, the joint Police
Communication Center is off that chart already, because it's supposed to be
getting done or it's supposed to be going shovel ready. The top of the priority is
our care of the Kea`au police station, building a facility in Kea`au. The Kea`au
I was assigned to Kea`au in 1982. That is the same station we still have that I was
there when we only had seven to eight officers out there. So it's totally
inadequate. It's been on our target list for a long time. And more so, if I give you
an example. The Pahoa Police Station was actually built as a substation, not as
the main station. But the Kea`au station could not handle the number of officers
we had. So we had to relocate the main station to Pahoa, which is a problem for
Puna because Kea`au is the central location between mauka and makai. Most of
our issues may be in lower Puna for whatever reason, the population being
greater, but we're still lacking services upper Puna because you have a station
that's in Pahoa and you're having the officers having to come into Kea`au to
respond up to Volcano.
So again, long answer to a short question, but yes, it is on our target and for a CIP
project right now, it is for a police station in Kea`au and it is a joint station. It's
supposed to be a joint project with Police and Fire as well.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Alright. I appreciate that. And again, you know,
Holeka, Councilman Inaba, I do appreciate the recognition of our first-line people
both fire and police coming forth. I think that's an outstanding thing.
Regrettably, what happens is then they transfer good officers out of my district,
and you took two of mine away. I'm proud of both of them.
CHIEF FERREIRA: I also took your Captain.
MR. RICHARDS: What was that?
CHIEF FERREIRA: I also took your Captain
MR. RICHARDS: I know you took my Captain. That was Captain Bird(Sherry).
CHIEF FERREIRA: I made her a Major.
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MR. RICHARDS: I know.
CHIEF FERREIRA: She's got a little bit more power now.
MR. RICHARDS: I'm still fussy about that, okay, as well as Kelena Ho`okano.
I'm a little fussy about that one, too. I know he's been promoted as well. But
again, that quality of your leadership, your core, rank and file. I've seen
outstanding coming through here. It's just that we gotta figure out how to get
more sooner so you don't keep getting into this cycle. And I don't know what the
answer is. But with that, I think it's enough questions for right now. So
appreciate it, Chief. Appreciate it, Bugs. So thank you. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms.
Kierkiewicz, go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Aloha, Chief. Great to see you.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Good afternoon.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I have one question, but really I just wanted to mahalo
you. You've been incredibly responsive. I really enjoyed working with you over
the years. I appreciate your frankness, you humor, and really just how quick you
are to respond and make your department and various resources available.
You've been a huge help to my district and my office in so many ways. Love
working with Torey Keltner in the abandoned vehicles program, Captain Briski
and your CPO's,just phenomenal. Really, really incredible team that you have.
So mahalo for your work.
And Lieutenant Derr (William) has been in touch with our office recently, as have
many of your folks, when we put out that call for the vacant property's leadership
institute, you know, our office is working to get our County some technical
assistance with the squatter issue. Your folks were some of the first to respond
and they put us in touch with the various neighborhood watches around the island.
And all of that mana`o has been so incredibly valuable and I think as really helped
to put our application over the edge. So thank you so much for all of that.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Like I said, the accolades is to them. Any complaints about
the department is me.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: But you provided entree. So thank you.
CHIEF FERREIRA: But they are exceptional, they are. And I'm glad they are
responding to you directly when they have to.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes. And with the help of Prosecutor Waltjen and
Lieutenant Derr, we are going to be looking to find ways to activate the Pahoa
County Office to get a Neighborhood Watch Coordinator in there and other
community support. So thank you for your support on that.
The question I had was related to mental health. We had talked about this over
the years. There's a provision in the statute that the Department of Health is
supposed to be providing support to officers in the event of the public calling and
just suffering from mental health issues. So just wondering what sort of support
has or hasn't been provided by the Department of Health? Just curious around it.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Dr. Chapman, who was working with us for a while going
back before the pandemic hit, was in place trying to provide training and put in a
Department of Health employee here to do the outreach, where we notify them to
come in and say, "Okay, does this person have a mental health issue that we can
transfer them to the hospital?" But because of the pandemic everything came to a
screeching hold. Recently, it was revived again the beginning part of this year.
It's been revived again. Okay, we're still looking at if we still need it.
The mental health services on Hawaii Island are very lacking, and I can say that
for across the State as far as the neighbor islands. I cannot say anything for
Honolulu, because I really don't know what's going on there. But for Hawaii
Island, yes, the mental health response is very lacking. And we would like
nothing better than to have mental health professionals available to us 24/7 that
we can refer someone to, because a lot of times our officers are having to make
that decision; transport the person up to the medical center. And because the
medical center doesn't have the facilities or they don't have the staffing, the
individual is released even though they are definitely having an issue. So what
happens is in turn they become our problem again and then we have to deal with
it. Unfortunately, when we deal with it, it's through the criminal justice system.
But at times they do get the help that they need.
I can give you an example. It happened about two years ago, pre-pandemic,
where an individual was at the mental health facility at the medical center, and the
doctor was going to commit him. When the guy went off on the doctor, the
doctor went out and said he's too violent to be there. So he called police. But
again, it's a mental health issue. It's not really a police issue. But we become the
solution for the problem. So any mental health assistance we can get through the
Department of Health we're going to accept.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Yeah, I'm going to stay on that with you folks.
And I know through Vibrant Hawaii and under the leadership of Captain Stacy
Domingo with Fire, they've been able to train up a number of community folks to
provide mental health first aid certification. It's like CPR (Cardiopulmonary
Resuscitation) for mental health. And so if there are ways we can support your
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department in receiving that training, if you haven't already had it, I do want to
make sure that I'm able to make that happen.
CHIEF FERREIRA: We received training for how to address the mental issues.
What we're looking for is a step further, is having the mental health professionals
available to respond and deal with it.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That intervention piece. Yeah.
CHIEF FERREIRA: If you look across the nation there are communities that are
going towards that direction, bringing in mental health professionals, bringing in
community professionals, taking that role away from law enforcement because
it's really not—it shouldn't be a crime.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: To make that decision.
CHIEF FERREIRA: It shouldn't be looked at it that way. Of course they're
going to commit crimes and that we need to address, but that is something that
you should also have those other services available that we are very lacking on
Hawaii Island.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah, it seems like a prime workforce development
opportunity. And I wonder if, because of COVID, if there are ways in which we
can integrate technology into this. You know, Hawaii Island is so massive and if
we're going to wait for somebody to physically respond to that situation, it's just
unacceptable. I think there are ways in which we can leverage technology and
make the process more efficient. So thanks, Chief. Of course you were super on
it. Thank you for your hard work.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Thank you.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. I got
Mr. Richards' light on. Did everyone have a chance to talk? Rebecca, did you
speak already?
MS. VILLEGAS: I just have one quick comment if I could?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, go ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: Aloha, Chief. Thank you for being here.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Good evening, ma'am.
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MS. VILLEGAS: Good evening. And mahalo to your whole team. I just really
wanted to say how grateful I am for your community policing team here in Kona.
And how they have pulled together even though they are understaffed and really
come up with fantastic solutions and partnered with other groups and
organizations who are working to serve our homeless community and help
navigate getting them off the street and into shelters or sometimes some cases,
returned home. I'm super excited about having Sergeant Mike Hardy, moving
into his new position with community policing. And I just, you know, things
have been a little different obviously because of the coronavirus, but the
community policing in Kona, I continue to hear from residents of this district,
their gratitude for the relationship building, the accountability, the initiative that's
being taken, and just really the care that's being expressed, not just for those who
have a home but for the homeless as well and getting them the services they need.
So we are, while it's still an issue, your team has really been an incredible asset in
working with public-private partnerships and our local business community. So
thank you for that. You have an incredible team of officers in that department
helping to serve here. And I would be remiss if I didn't take the opportunity for
that.
CHIEF FERREIRA: No, thank you.
MS. VILLEGAS: Of course I'm hopeful that at some point in the future, they'll
be able to be fully staffed. But until then, we are grateful.
CHIEF FERREIRA: You and me, both.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah. I'm grateful for their diligence and commitment to do
the most even if they don't have all the resources that would be ideal. So thank
you for that.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Yes, ma'am.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Mr. Richards
was first to have his light on.
MS. LEE LOY: I never go.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You never went yet. I thought you went
already. Go ahead, Ms. Lee Loy. Sorry.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Chief, for being here. I do have
to echo theI'm super proud of the community policing here in Hilo. And Ms.
Kimball touched upon it a little bit. You know, we're trying to figure out a way
to amplify our dollars and how we deliver services upstream, right, so that you
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guys don't have to work so hard. And so I would just gently ask, maybe some
considerations be given to give a little bit more money to community policing.
And I say that because they really are kind of right in touch with community. I
just know down in Keaukaha they come to all of our community association
meetings, and they're networked with QLT (Queen Lili`uokalani Trust), with the
charter schools, with the Native Hawaiian community, but they're also around the
kids. And so maybe just indirectly they're actually shifting some of what might
impact those kids later on in life, which will make your job easier as they get
older. Just some considerations for that.
But I did want to talk a little bit about the bodycams because you mentioned that
deployment is coming out. But we also went last for good reason, right. We
wanted to learn the lessons of what other departments have learned. And I just
wanted you to expand a little bit about what those lessons are, because that's
going to be an ongoing budget item and equipment. And then what the
maintenance plans will look like or, you know, how we're going to be swapping
them out, what technology we would need,just some thoughts ahead because I
see a big equipment budget. And so I want to make sure that the success of those
bodycams because of what we learned from other departments, but also going
forward, again, making your guy's job a lot easier.
CHIEF FERREIRA: One of the biggest lessons that we learned from the other
departments was to ensure that we had the staffing in place before we
implemented the program. And that's why during the two fiscal years ago we
asked for two analyst positions and a sergeant's position to make the program
take off the ground. And we've gotten those positions but again, I think we have
harder retention of IT people than we do of police officers sometimes. But as far
as the lessons we learned, we put in place having them in place before we bought
the equipment.
And we did test the equipment and see what was out there before we actually
committed. We committed with the same equipment that is being utilized
throughout the State, which is a good thing because the vendor is very amicable in
dealing with what negotiated with what the fees will be. We are on a five-year
plan for the equipment that we have. And pretty much we got the equipment free,
right now, and we're paying it on a long-term lease. That is why you see those
big numbers. Annually we should be asking anywhere in the area of$340,000 to
continue the program going forward. The initial cost was $455,000 total, spread
out over the five years.
So going forward we're going to be keeping an eye on it, what do we need.
We're also looking—in speaking with Prosecutor Waltjen the other day, he asked
us about digitizing the rest of our digital evidence and doing it—because we use
what is called evidence.com that we upload all the videos to. So he was asking
about how we can do it, uploading those videos, the other videos or other digital
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evidence into evidence.com to prevent us from burning CD's. Yes, we still use
CD's. And turning it over to the prosecutors. Some of that is because of court
protocol that we need the CD's, it can't be tampered with, things of that nature.
But we can still store it on a different format. So we are looking at that going
forward.
And again, we're also looking at expanding the program. Right now it's only for
our uniformed patrol officers and our traffic enforcement unit. Out patrol
uniformed supervisors are not equipped with body cameras. We need to get them
equipped. We need our Vice Detectives, we need our Juvenile Aid Detectives, we
need other detectives to get equipped. They're use will be minimal compared to
our street officers because, you know, detective's role, you may not want that
body camera being turned on if you are interviewing a sexual assault victim or a
child. You know, those are times when you're going to turn it off. The officers
are going to have to turn it off. Or if you're in an undercover capacity you're not
going to be taping the individual there.
So yes, we are expanding the program. We do look forward to going for more
money, but we're also looking for grants as well. We're looking at DOJ
(Department of Justice), if they have any new grants that come out to support the
body-worn camera program. A couple years ago there were a lot of grants
involving body-worn cameras. We didn't qualify for them, now we do, and
they're no longer there. So we're looking at DOJ coming out with more programs
as they go along. More so because of what's going on across the nation.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. And you know, it always starts like that, right, the
equipment's free and then it's the maintenance and upkeep and life cycle that
catches us on the backend. So thank you for thinking that through a little bit.
You know, I also wanted to talk a little bit about the Spillman program. You
know, I think it was last budget cycle, there was a lot of hiccups between your
department and Prosecuting Attorney's and just the layers, right, the click, click,
click. Has that been smoothed out as far as between your office, the courts, and
then the Prosecuting Attorney's Office?
CHIEF FERREIRA: The courts is something different because it's a State
program, the State computerized program. As for as us and the Prosecutor's, it's
been an ongoing issue going back and forth with us. Some of the hiccups that
came up is we haven't been able to retain our IT people that have working on it,
and they've been moving forward. But we are working closely with the
Prosecutor's Office. And again, I've got to appreciate nothing against
Prosecutor Roth when he was there. But with Keldon Waltjen, he's jumping in on
top of it. He's brand new so he's got a lot of fire in him, and he's jumping in and
saying, "Okay, we need this, we need this." And he'll pick up the phone and say,
"Chief, we need this. Can we put someone in touch?" And we've been putting
the IT people together, because me and him discussed it and he said, "We can talk
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about it, but it's over our head at the technical level. So we need the guys that
know what they're doing in there." So we are putting the right people together
right now. And I don't see where it's going to be an issue.
MS. LEE LOY: Great. And I think we took Scott(Uehara) from you, too, right?
CHIEF FERREIRA: Yes, you did.
MS. LEE LOY: So you took Tim's officers so we
CHIEF FERREIRA: If you look at the IT section in the County, Micah (Cockett)
came from us. He came from us and he went there. We had Matthew (Iaukea)
from IT, he left us. Don Jacobs, he came from County IT. He stayed with us for
a little while, he started a project and then he left. He went to the mainland. So
there's a greater turnover in IT. And one of the issues, one of the problems that
we see when we recruit for IT, and we recruit for specialized positions like
criminalist that need a background and need some education, we don't have
candidates here on island that are willing to accept the pay cut that they're going
to be taking by coming into the County. It's no longer, "Yeah, the County is a
great place to work," it's "You're not going to lose your job, they're not going to
bankrupt, and a long-term retirement is what I'm looking for." They're looking
for the money up front and we can't provide that, unfortunately.
MS. LEE LOY: You know, I touched on those two programs because it's kind of
shared cost, right, the bodycams and then that computer program. And I'm just
wondering, because with the bodycams, they're being used across the entire State,
right. How did you guys crack that procurement nut? Because I've been asking
Fire, you know, how do we leverage all the other municipals when all the
firefighters need the exact same equipment? And so I'm just kind of wondering
how the State kind of got to deploy all of this body-cam equipment, you know, on
all the different islands?
CHIEF FERREIRA: It was all individual procurements. It wasn't one collective
procurement. Axon, the company that we're dealing with is probably the leader
in the field, so their selling point was, yes, they assist Honolulu City and County,
Kauai, Maui. So it's an easy sale for us, you know, if we can go in that direction
when looking at what they have to offer and looking at what kind of equipment
they have to offer, what kind of services they're provide to us. It wasn't a
combined that is a next to impossible feat, to get all four counties to make one
purchase that will supply all of the divisions. And the reason I know that is when
we were going through the 911 fund when I was on the board, there were things
that we wanted to get in place across the State, and you're dealing with four
different directors, four different procurement officers, and even though you have
one procurement code everybody interprets it a little differently or a different
challenge. It wasn't something special.
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MS. LEE LOY: I just see so much buying capacity, you know, we could buy so
much at a reduced cost if we all put it together. But, you know, Chief, earlier
Council Member Inaba was telling me, "Sue, how many stars he gets?" And I
said, "You know what, Holeka, he's been in the department longer than you've
been alive. So let's just leave it at that."
CHIEF FERREIRA: Thank you very much for that one.
MR. INABA: Times two almost.
MS. LEE LOY: But thank you so much for all you do. And I know you're going
to pass it on to your squad. But really, take some for yourself. You really have
worked long and hard for this department. I think going on 39, if not—
CHIEF
otCHIEF FERREIRA: July makes 39 years.
MS. LEE LOY: Congratulations, Chief. Chair, I yield.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Richards,
go ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. So you're going to finish up at 45 years,
just remember that, okay. Couple of things, Chief. Touching back on the social
service side, this reminded me of the situation that the department helped out with
me in Waimea and the guy and the park and all. You know, I appreciate the fact
that you handled him because he was breaking the law, but there's the bigger
picture. And so I can't imagine that there isn't a national or at the very least a
State program or trying to design putting social services together with law
enforcement. Because, you know, the homeless issue and then the psychological
issues of some of these, we need to tend to them. But I don't think we need to
reinvent the wheel. We just have to find a program that might work for us.
Obviously, it's going to take funding. But do you have thoughts on that, is there
some way we can support that going forward? Because it's a bigger thing I know.
Kona has an issue with it, and we need to deal with it. We don't need to pretend
that it's not happening or whatever the case may be.
CHIEF FERREIRA: There's something very new that's coming out where across
the nation they're starting to shift to private or non-law enforcement response to
these types of incidents. And some of it is being brought on because of what's
going on in law enforcement across the nation. But there are models out there
that we've seen, or we've talked about that you see communities looking at
transferring that skill or those duties to someone in the profession of mental
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health, social services, that. But these are municipalities that have the resources.
They have the facilities that will take over. Unfortunately for Hawaii County,
the State of Hawaii, we don't have those resources in place and that's the starting
point. Like, Ms. Kierkiewicz said, once we can get Department of Health on
Board to begin it, then we can start moving in that direction. And I think that's
the direction we need to go in.
MR. RICHARDS: Is this something that's being discussed amongst the chiefs?
Because there needs to be a shift. We know that. But, you know, and I think
everybody on the Council would be very supportive of making and help
facilitating, which obviously means helping fund some of this stuff. But the
people, the social services dealing with this need to weigh in on this and law
enforcement needs to weigh in on this, because it's got to be, in my mind, a
cohesive effort between. But we're not the ones to figure out what that cohesive
effort is. So is that something that's being discussed?
CHIEF FERREIRA: That's something that has been brought to the table before
with the other chiefs. They're missing one big entity that needs to come to the
table and needs to fess up and needs to take position. And that's the State.
MR. RICHARDS: No, I'm not missing but they're missing at a lot of tables right
now.
CHIEF FERREIRA: True. But they're the ones that need to come forward. And
that's why I say, having the State Department of Health take the initiative now,
coming to us and saying, "Okay, we're going to put the resources here to help you
address some of this problem," is a step in the right direction, in my opinion.
Again, it's only my opinion. But that's the step in the direction that we want to
go in.
MR. RICHARDS: So that's actually what we as Council can do to advocate at
the State level to find the resources. Okay. Alright. That triggered my memory
on that so okay. So thank you, Chair. I yield.
CHIEF FERREIRA: The Law Enforcement Adult Diversion Program, yes, where
they divert an individual from prosecution to going and getting mental health
services, going community services and not go through the judicial system. If
they fail to do that then the impact of the criminal system comes on them. That is
ongoing was well.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Any other comments from
Kona or Rebecca?
MR. INABA: `A`ole. Mahalo.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you, Council. Good
discussion. I have a few questions of my own. Yeah, thank you for following up
on the bodycams. I know when I first came up, was it two years ago, we
discussed what's on the backend in our data services, how it's going to work. So
I'm glad you're thinking about that. I noticed I just went through the different
documents that were provided and in the objectives section, under your
Operations Bureau for your six-month progress report on program objectives, and
they're not shinning, some of the objective reports. You know, "To achieve a
theft/auto theft clearance rate of 30 percent,"we actually did about 17 percent. I
mean I'm not looking to rail you, but I'm just wondering, you know, where
you're at with meeting some of these objectives that were set out by the
department?
CHIEF FERREIRA: As far as all of these objectives, we look at them every
month with our commanders. And in fact we have a commanders' meeting
tomorrow morning in North Kohala. And we go over the goals that they've set,
what are the shortcomings, where are these coming from, why are we not making
the clearances. And it's more like a rollercoaster,you know, at times we'll get a
hit on a number of burglaries or thefts, and it'll drive the numbers down as
opposed to cases getting solved. So it is a rollercoaster. What we saw with the
pandemic, what was unusual wasI shouldn't say unusual because everyone was
staying home you saw the property crimes go down at the very beginning of the
pandemic. But now they're coming back up to the levels that they were prior to
the pandemic happening.
So we are taking a look at all of these crimes that are occurring and what we've
done in the districts is create what they call a special enforcement unit, where we
take a detective from our Vice Division or our Criminal Investigation Division,
we partner them with officers in our Patrol Division and we have them address
certain aspects of what's going on. So when we see a spike in crimes out in Puna
for various different offenses, we'll send a special enforcement unit out there to
address it. Same happens in Kona, same happens in Hilo. So when we do see
something like that coming on, we do try and address it in that sense.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, good. So you're following these
and, you know, where you're seeing dips, you're trying to make up for that on the
backend.
CHIEF FERREIRA: I get the same questions from the Police Commission every
month as well.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, okay. Special duties or, you know,
Community Police Officers, I mean I heard there was discussion of kind of doing
away with those positions. Is that correct? I just hear from different places, but I
haven't actually formally gotten real answers.
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CHIEF FERREIRA: I have not put out anything or have any intentions of getting
rid of the Community Policing Officer Program. In fact, we keep looking at the
DOJ—all of our community policing positions were initially grant funded. They
were initial three-year grant funded where the DOJ paid for the position. And
when they first came out, they were paying 100 percent for the three years. Then
it went to 75 percent, now it's at 50 percent.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It's like our TAT revenue.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Yes. And we're on the hook for it. But, you know, we keep
looking at that and if the DOJ decides to push it up a little bit more, we're going
to look at it. Same things like for our School Resource Officers. All of those
officers, all of those positions were created with seed money from the Department
of Justice, so we have no intention of dissolving the program. And in fact, the
Community Policing Program is not an officer, it's not just an officer out there.
It's a philosophy that we train our recruits at. It's a philosophy that we want to
whole department to follow and we are doing it.
We have a five-year rotation, and I know some of the Council Members will get
upset because sooner or later the officers that are community policing officers in
their district that are doing a fantastic job, like Matt Lewis in Hilo, Wyatt Nahale
in Kona, Dwayne Sluss
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Officer Kamalii
CHIEF FERREIRA: Cardines (Eddie) in Puna. You know, I'm just naming
some off the top of the top of my head that—
CHR.
hatCHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sorry, Kamalii. Sorry.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Yup, Davy Kamalii.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes.
CHIEF FERREIRA: You know, if all of these—sooner or later they hit their five-
year mark and we transition them out and we put new officers in there to get the
skills and the knowledge. The good thing about that is when they hit the streets
and they're patrol officers, they have this behind them. They have this experience
behind them. They have the experience to go out there and deal with the
community, which is good. And the community recognizes them, they know
them. Even though they're not a community policing officer, they still have their
contacts. So I have no intention—I don't know who's saying that, but we have no
intention of dissolving the program.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for clarifying for me. Yeah, I
love them, and they develop a relationship with the community, and they become
loved. And it really does reinforce community police, that relationship. And it
just helps with everything going on in the district. But we do get sad when we
lose them.
CHIEF FERREIRA: When they get promoted, they leave as well.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I noticed something, I think it was in our
revenues, it was a special duty administration fee. I just was wondering what that
is or why, actually it's a pretty big increase. I just trying to figure out what that
step is.
CHIEF FERREIRA: The special duty program is the off-duty officer program.
It's off-duty officers getting paid by contractors, different vendors, to do the
traffic control, crowd control, those kinds of things. The program is self-funded.
We have two account clerks that work in the account finance sections that are
funded through the special duty program. The revenue is the administrative fee
we charge the vendor to pay for these positions, so the County isn't settled with it.
Because they're getting funds paid directly to the officer, we have that
administrative fee to fund our account clerks in the department.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. The reason I'm asking is because
2019-2020 was pretty low. But we're expecting $125,000, that's our estimate for
2021-2022. That's why I asked.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Yeah, because we did increase the administrative fee, we
thought that they were getting a little bit too much for their money, so we upped
it.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So you're expecting more revenue
in that account for that increase in fee. Okay, thank you. Now grants, State and
federal,just going through the, again, this objectives report—sorry, your program
status report. I was cross checking the grants received in 2019-2020 and 2021,
just to get an estimate of what we should be expecting in 2021-2022. Most times
we're seeing almost zero and I've seen that in previous years, you've got zero and
you applied for $200,000, $150,000. But then I also noticed there's a couple of
these that didn't line up with what was reported as being received as a grant.
Take the HCPD (Hawai`i County Police Department) Roadblock Program,
received in 2021 was $113,000, if I'm not mistaken. But looks like our estimated
budget was $200,000, but I was looking at the differences. And if I was to look at
that, I think our grant expectations for 2021-2022 are really out of whack. I
understand it's not a revenue source so it's not going to hurt your budget. But just
from looking at these, they don't quite line up with what we've gotten in the past.
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CHIEF FERREIRA: Well the numbers that we apply for this is what we apply
for, and this is what we ask for, and this is what we say, "Okay, this is what we
need." Similar to our budget. We say this is what we need, and this is the amount
we're asking for. What we actually get back in the grant is what is being recorded
on the status report. So even though we had applied for $200,000, we were only
awarded $113,000 or $120,000. We always will ask for more than what we're
needing.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, and when these grants come in, that
number will be reflected in the 2019-2020 actual budget, correct?
CHIEF FERREIRA: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It don't go anywhere else?
CHIEF FERREIRA: Nope.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, okay. Question regarding your
capital improvement budget. You touched upon it earlier. Your department and
Fire kind of came together to prioritize the Kea`au Police and Fire kind of mutual
station. Is that what I understand?
CHIEF FERREIRA: I don't know that we came together now. I mean, that has
been in the works for many years, that the Kea`au Police Station was inKea`au
Police Station and Kea`au Fire Station, I only learned recently that we owned the
buildings. I always thought Shipman owned everything.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We did too yesterday, until we discovered
that.
CHIEF FERREIRA: And I was always under the understanding that the lease
was always coming up and we were always under the gun to go look at properties
and look at what is available out there. And it was under Mayor Kim, the
previous administration, that they said if you guys are going to build, if you guys
are coming to me and asking me for a Police and Fire facility in Kea`au, it needs
to be a joint facility similar like the one that is in Pahoa. It also needs to be
visible on the highway so it's not setback in the back streets where no one is
going to know where it's at. So we were targeting, way back when, we were
targeting the area across, in the vicinity of the Shipman Park. That area there.
There were discussions, which Shipman then acquired a property, a parcel. There
were discussions of what the County needed to come forward with. The cost of
what the County had to put forward for infrastructure exceeded what the property
was worth, so it was, why don't we just buy the property outright, but we didn't
have the funding. There wasn't any funding available.
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And then there were discussions looking at a property mauka of the Shipman
Park, closer to Kamehameha Schools, where Kamehameha Schools was at. I
forget who owned that property. But in that situation, FireI'm not real keen on
the requirements for Fire is, but if they're too far away from a residential area the
insurance rate changes. And so the Fire Station could only be located in certain
areas around Kea`au, and we were moving too far mauka or too far south by
going up that direction.
So it was always in the works and looking at it as a joint facility similar to what
was built in Pahoa. And I understand now that we're starting to build it up again,
the ES (Emergency Services) and Fire are now saying, yes, we're going to go
together as a joint. Because like for us, we were looking at not only a facility for
the Police Station, but also looking long term, can we build a training facility
there as well? So we can take our recruit class training out of that small little
training room that we have on the bottom of the Police Station and move it to a
facility isolated by itself where you do have the land area available. Fire
Department was looking at the same thing in the past as well. So yes, again, long
answer to a short response should be. But yes, we are looking forward in that
way.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's wonderful. I fully support you. It
came to my attention from Captain Briski, and you touched on it a little bit, but
just to reiterate. When an officer arrests someone, let's say in Volcano, what
happens?
CHIEF FERREIRA: If they arrest somebody in Volcano, they can stop at the
Kea`au Police Station and process them. If they're going to detain them any
longer, instead of going to Pahoa, they can transport them all the way into Hilo.
If it's going to be a case where they're going to process or fingerprint,
photograph, advise them of their rights and what have you, do an investigation,
release them on bail, or just release them pending investigation, they can do that
at the Kea`au Station. If it's anymore entailed and they need to remain in the
district, they have to drive that individual all the way to Pahoa and that's where
they're being held. And then if they're going to be detained any longer, we drive
them all the way into Hilo. So yes, it is time consuming. It does take the time
away. So having a facility in Kea`au, yes, it is on the top of the list.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. That's what I understood, too. I
mean, basically you lose an officer for
CHIEF FERREIRA: Couple hours.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Two or three hours, given the drive times
and the distance you're covering. And we already are limited in officers, so it
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actually increases our public safety component in Puna. It does double work
basically, which is why from then on and then realizing what the stations look like
already I realized this has to be a priority. When I saw it on the priority list that
you proposed, I was very grateful. So mahalo for that.
Just mahalo for filling positions in Puna. That was a much needed, it was just
much needed. We needed some help. And it's two positions, that's a lot though
from what we had. We have I think eight officers
CHIEF FERREIRA: Eight or nine officers at any given time.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So now we have ten and that's when
they're filled, understood. But just thank you for doing that. Something I've
been seeing in other municipalities, police lawsuits, and when we have those, it
can really drain both, Corp. Counsel and also it can drain our whole County. Is
there concern of that for you within the department? Is that something that you're
seeing?
CHIEF FERREIRA: There's always a concern for lawsuits. The Police
Department,just law enforcement in general is highly litigious. Anything that we
do, a lawsuit can be filed on. That's why for us, training is imperative. We have
to make sure the training that we get is what is needed, and it's put out to all of
our officers and everyone out there. That's why we always constantly hop on
training. You're going to see an increase in our training budget shortly
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I saw it.
CHIEF FERREIRA: That is part of it. You know, we need to ensure that officers
are receiving their training. And I know I got questioned, I think by one of the
reporters, Nancy Cook-Lauer, if I'm not mistaken, regarding the increase in our
training budget and it says training conference. We're not increasing the
conference fee. We're not planning on traveling to the mainland on a junket,
because when we look at our training account this is with that training fund trains
all of our 483 officers. That is what it's used for. So, yes, lawsuits are always on
our mind. Every time we do something we're looking at a lawsuit. That's why
we do so many internal investigations. If we see something that went wrong, we
want to know why, we want to know ahead of time. We want to get the
investigation done so we're not told one year, 11 months, 30 days, when the
lawsuits filed by the attorney, "Oh, this happened. What have you guys done to
document it?" So if we know of something coming on, we will investigate it and
we will take action on it so when that lawsuit does happen at that time we say,
"Yeah, this is what happened, this is our pictures,your client did this, this, this.
We didn't do anything wrong."
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. But I mean, is it a concern of yours
right now, I mean like fiscally. Is there a big concern? I don't know where you
guys stand.
CHIEF FERREIRA: It's always on the top of your head. I mean, every time you
look at something, it's out there.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, but no large amount of pending
lawsuit figures we should be looking at?
CHIEF FERREIRA: Not that I know of.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. Knock on wood.
CHIEF FERREIRA: I think you have Corporation Counsel coming later. I don't
know if they're concerned.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, okay. Just seeing it, like in New
York City, but it's a huge municipality compared to us. So just checking. Okay.
I hear you; I hear you. Just feeling you out, on the grants coming in this fiscal
year, what are you thinking?
CHIEF FERREIRA: Well, like I said, I haven't heard any rumble about our
monies getting cut, because most of it is coming through DOJ, through the AG's
(Attorney General) Office—so it's like violence against women grants. Those are
never going to go away. Sex Assaults grant, VOCA (Victims of Crime Act)
grants, those don't go away. Our traffic grants, we're still seeing them. We're
still seeing it out there because you have a lot of lobbyists or proponents for
ensuring that DUI's are not happening, there's fatalities not happening. So I don't
see those grants walking away any time soon, even with COVID, even with the
economy the way it is. Because these are all social issues that need to be
addressed.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you. You know, I want to
commend you. I did the same thing for Fire Department. We've had a lot of
discussions about overtime in the past and I mean going through here you made
some huge cuts in different departments to overtime. And it really helps. And
we've had the discussions before. What can you do, what can you cut? I mean,
you're looking at 2019-2020, actual expenditure on overtime, $887,000.
Estimated for this coming fiscal year $294,000, that's just for one department.
CHIEF FERREIRA: And, you know, some of our overtime was curtailed as well
because we did change our work schedule where in the past the officers would
switch watches altogether at the end of the month. So you'd have less than 12
hours, you have premium time that you had to pay overtime, that you had pay.
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We switched it out where now the officers when they rotate shifts, they rotate it
on their days off. So there isn't that penalty, that premium time that we're having
to pay.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Nicely done. Whose idea was that?
CHIEF FERREIRA: I beg your pardon.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Whose idea was that?
CHIEF FERREIRA: I forget. One of the commanders.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Not you, yeah.
CHIEF FERREIRA: No, no. I will never take credit and compliments. I will
take the complaints. I will not take the credit.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Well yeah, someone besides you
gets a well done. Well done, Chief. I thought you did a nice job putting this out.
You made substantial cuts basically across the board, which is what you're being
asked to do, and I understand that this is a bare bones budget. Despite what we all
want to see, that's where we're going to stand. This is the result of a global
pandemic. So thank you. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Thank you very much, Council Members.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Unless there's any other questions by the
Council. Nope. Okay.
CHIEF FERREIRA: Enjoy the rest of your evening. I hope it's not too much
longer.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much. Appreciate that.
That was a good joke on the way out.
CHIEF FERREIRA: I hope you're going to break for dinner here.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Council, do you need a few minutes, or
you want to jump right into Corporation Counsel?
MR. INABA: Let's jam.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you very much.
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(6) Office of the Corporation Counsel:
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance and Assistant
Corporation Counsel Laureen Martin came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, the next department up for our
Special Committee on Finance Budget review departmental program reviews.
Thank you, Ms. Strance. Computer is this one on your right, if you have one.
Thank you. And then please introduce yourself and your staff.
Ms. Kimball will be back in a few minutes. Mr. Chung is gone for the afternoon,
and Maile David as well. Well we have Council Members Zooming in and then
you have the Kona as well for Holeka Inaba. Okay, go ahead, Ms. Strance.
MS. STRANCE: I was going to say, good afternoon, but I think it's good evening
already. Thank you for your time, and hard work, and patience. I'm Elizabeth
Strance, Corporation Counsel. To my left is Laureen Martin, Assistant
Corporation Counsel. And behind us is, Stacy Okuda, our Administrative
Assistant and our numbers person extraordinaire. I'd also like to just take a
minute and thank my predecessors for initiating the budget process for our
department, which started some time before I was sworn in, and also for Stacy's
work. She just started in February for us and has been able to come up to speed
and navigate and really help us through this process. And by now I'm sure
you've heard it a lot, but just to thank Deanna and her team for all their support
that they have and are giving us.
We are here today to speak in support of our budget, which is $3,053,880. Of that
amount, $2,433,100, accounts for salaries and wages. By background and just
initiating some of the new Council Members, by Charter the Corporation Counsel
acts as Chief Legal Advisor and Legal Representative of all County agencies, the
Council, and all officers and employees in matters related to their official powers.
We provide support to 20 departments, 33 boards and commissions, and 15
committees and agencies. We also represent the County in lawsuits that are filed
against it, claims being made against it, and on some occasions, on lawsuits that
the County initiates.
Our office is comprised of a Corporation Counsel, Assistant Corporation Counsel,
14 deputies, one of those positions is unfunded, and we're actively recruiting for
two attorney positions. We also have 14 support staff positions plus my
Executive Assistant. Two of those positions are currently unfunded and we're
recruiting, I believe, for three still.
Since being sworn in, we're hired three lawyers. Two have started and a third
will begin on May first. We've also recently filled two of our staff positions. I
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think in terms of things that might be a little bit newer, as you know, one of the
Mayor's campaign pledges was to ensure inclusivity between East and West
Hawaii, and Corporation Counsel historically has not had a large presence in
West Hawaii. We've had one lawyer over there. I live there, and two of our
three new attorneys live there; and a third attorney came on board with the idea
that she may be able to move over and work out of our Kona office later. And so
I think it really points to something that I think a lot of us knew for some time and
that's that Kona represents an untapped resource in terms of recruiting legal
talent.
And I'm happy and excited that we're being more inclusive because I think
there's a lot of lawyers that are interested in public service, and if they have a
family or otherwise attached to West Hawaii, they haven't really been given that
opportunity. I think as we grow, I'm hopeful that we'll find that same untapped
resource with staffing. With that, I think if you folks have questions, you know,
we're a little bit unique in our department in that we don't service out in the
community. We service you and we service the County in support of the
departments. So I think we're interested in how we can best help you and
anything that we can do along those lines.
I'm new to government, this type of government. And it's taking me some time
to come up to speed. One thing I will say is that I'm really proud to be working
for the Corporation Counsel Office. I'm proud of our deputies. I'm proud of our
support staff. You know, we've been working short staffed from before I came to
the office, and people work tremendously hard, and they tried to do a good job
and I think that we do. One of the challenges I think we've been facing is a lot of
people came to work and this administration is their first change in
administration.
And so with that, there's been a whole turnover in how people do the business of
government. There's been some taking some time in figuring out how to work
with new departments. Our office is learning to work with me. And so I think in
terms of a challenge, that would probably be one of the challenges that I've
noticed is, you know, different people, new people in positions have new ways of
doing things. And there's no one way or right way to do things, and I think we're
adjusting. The department and commissions and boards we're working with are
learning to work with us. I hope we're successful in you learning to work with us,
with a new group.
But I hadn't expected it coming on board, the wisdom base that is present in our
office with the lawyers that we have, and I'm hopeful that we can get fully staffed
and provide some relief to them. But I think with that if you have questions about
our budget or about how our office is working, or comments that you think would
be helpful for us, I'm happy to respond.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Strance. Thanks for the
introduction and for being here this evening. Let's go to Ms. Lee Loy.
MR. INABA: Chair?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sorry, Holeka. You'll go next.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Judge Strance, for being here. I
just had one question around one of the program objectives. It's related to risk
management and risk mitigation. Earlier today we heard Director Bill Brilhante
over at our Human Resources Division talk about, you know, if he could do a
little bit more risk assessment up front, we would actually see cost savings in
worker's comp. And I just wanted to understand how your department is viewing
this program objective around risk management and mitigation?
MS. STRANCE: I'm going to give it my best shot since I didn't write this.
MS. MARTIN: As far as the worker's compensation component?
MS. LEE LOY: Well, Director Brilhante's idea is if we did a little bit more front
loading at identifying risks, you know, through training or training opportunities
whether it's, you know, falls, masks for our firefighters, and/or supervisory
training, right, because he sees a lot of kind of grievances filed back and forth
amongst employees. And so if we did a little bit more training along those lines,
but you guys also highlighted it as a program objective. And so I was just trying
to understand how what Mr. Brilhante and Human Resources is doing and how it
might differ or how it could actually synthesize between your department and his
department.
MS. MARTIN: I know our department does provide some training to the
departments ina lot of times we'll partner with different departments such as
HR or Finance so that we're giving more of a legal perspective on it. Specifically
to the litigation, I know that as claims come in and lawsuits come in, we will meet
with the department and if there's things that could be done better, we try and let
them know about that.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, because I know you folks do a lot of onboarding when it
comes to our boards and commissions related to sunshine law, right. Those are all
risks, right, litigation risks. And so I was just trying to understand if this is very
unique to you folks or if there is some partnerships that could happen with the
Department of Human Resources.
MS. STRANCE: I've had some discussion with Human Resources. I had my
training, and we did talk about partnering up on training and that, you know, they
do a training and then we do a training. But it seems like some of our trainings
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may dovetail well together. And so that is something that is, I think, worth
following up on with them. You know, we don't want to, one; we don't want to
recreate the wheel and HR has some expertise that we don't have, and we have
some expertise that they don't have, even though Bill is a lawyer and used to be in
the Corp. Counsel Office. But he's in a, I think, a very unique position to identify
those types of things and I know in some of the training that I've been in, you
know, I've had discussions with some of the trainers and there seems to be a real
receptivity to doing some sort of joint training. And we haven't gotten to it yet,
but it's something probably a good reminder to follow up on. Thanks.
MS. LEE LOY: Right. And you mentioned it, right. This administration was
about inclusivity and kind of a balance between east and west, but it was also a lot
about breaking down silos and cross-collaboration across departments. So I was
just trying to understand that. That was really my only question, not really related
to the budget. But we're looking at ways to synthesize some of that money, too.
So if, you know, we gave money as it related to risk management, what's the
return on investment? Are we saving money in the end, right? And that's just
some of the thoughts I had around that one.
MS. STRANCE: I think there might be some other things and you've heard a
little bit about infrastructure and things like that. And those are risk management
issues as well. And so, you know, our having good relationships with our
department heads and if they are seeing things out in the field or they're
encountering issues that they perceive as being risk, that's something worth
bringing to us and trying to brainstorm around. But, you know, the area of risk
management can have so many tentacles. You know, one is on the training and
how do we create safe workplaces. And then there's a broader or next circle out
about safety in our community.
MS. LEE LOY: No, absolutely. And I think, you know, risk; it's such a broad
term and can be used in so many ways. But there's always costs associated with a
failure to address that, right, whether it's litigation and/or complaints. So I'm just
trying to get my arms around that. That really was my only question. Thank you,
ladies, for being here. Really appreciate it. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Inaba, go
ahead.
MR. INABA: Thank you. Page 30, of the black binder, Section 5131.10; Special
Counsel. This is, I believe, what caused the increase in the total budget. Can you
explain the $100,000 in special Counsel?
MS. MARTIN: The amount being $100,000, I think it's been pretty consistent
over the years, it's been that amount.
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MR. INABA: Okay. What is causing—in the 2019-2020 year it was at$71,000,
and for the current and then proposed it's jumped to $225,000. So what's caused
this jump in this specific section?
MS. MARTIN: So the $225,000, includes the settlements as well. In the Special
Counsel is $100,000, the settlements are $115,000. So the $71,000, this just
happens to be how much we used. You can imagine that that's an incredibly low
amount for all the settlements for us. For example, we budgeted the $115,000,
that's approximately 11 settlements at$10,000 for everything that we process. So
we're talking about a car accident, a simple property damage claim, all of that is
included in that settlement amount. We only pay—if there's a settlement over
$20,000, though, we would only pay $10,000 of that. So the Special Counsel
account for $100,000, that's a projected amount that we believe we—it's really
the minimum we would need, I think. Generally, it's hard to predict whether we
would need Special Counsel. Generally when we need Special Counsel it's
because we have a conflict. So as a lawsuit came in, if we looked at it and we
couldn't represent one of the individuals, we'd have to hire Special Counsel or if,
depending on who sued, then we'd have to hire Special Counsel. Does that
answer your question?
MR. INABA: Yeah. If the funds are not used, if we don't actually need Special
Counsel in the end, what happens to these funds for this section?
MS. MARTIN: Yeah, I think that would be Deanna's—
MR. INABA: That fund balance, Deanna?
MS. SAKO: Yeah, fund balance.
MR. INABA: Was that a yes?
MS. MARTIN: Yes.
MR. INABA: Thank you. Okay, and is this what we expect this section to stay at
moving forward? I only ask because this is the only section that has seen a
significant increase that's visible here in this budget binder.
MS. MARTIN: It's really difficult to kind of predict because we don't know
what lawsuits will come in or what will happen. But I think this is a reasonable
estimate of what—given the past history, a reasonable estimate of what we need.
MR. INABA: Okay, and then one last question,just to clarify. The Special
Counsel, it's a prediction or is this somebody we have on contract already?
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MS. MARTIN: So we have, there's a couple of outstanding Special Counsel
contracts. One is for Brian De Lima, to represent the former Officer Buddemeyer
in the criminal trial, which is on appeal. There's one for the Higa lawsuit. For
Calvin Young, there's a small outstanding balance on that that might come it. But
both, currently the amount that's outstanding on those contracts are I think around
$9,000.
MR. INABA: Okay. Thank you so much. Appreciate all the work that your
office does, Judge Strance. I know you folks see a lot of cases and sometimes
bogus cases. So we appreciate you folks being our line of defense and advising us
and keeping us on track for our own meetings. That's all I have. Chair, I yield.
MS. STRANCE: Thank you. I just want to, you know, looking over the years on
the budgeted versus actuals in this category, the requests seem to be about an
average request. And it looks like generally we come in at less than the budgeted.
So we've been managing that number pretty well.
MR. INABA: Mahalo.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ms. Kimball, go
ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Just a quick clarification I think to Council Member Inaba's
point. The main difference in this budget and the previous years is an additional
person, right, an additional lawyer position?
MS. MARTIN: No, no.
MS. KIMBALL: Your salaries and wages went up?
MS. STRANCE: Our salaries and wages, there might be some salaries that have
gone up, but the number of attorney positions have not—in fact we've remained
at an unfunded position.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, okay. It seemed like a lot in terms of increase, but
maybe I'mI guess it's four and a half percent or so.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: So they may have had to adjust some attorneys to actual, but really it
reflects the collective bargaining employees they have and the collective
bargaining unit increases, because in the FY 2021 budget we didn't know the
collective bargaining yet, so it wasn't allocated to each department. So you're
actually seeing two years' worth of collective bargaining increases, and that's true
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for all the departments. But so Corporation Counsel, while they have a lot of
attorneys, actually do have collective bargaining staff as well.
MS. KIMBALL: Got it. Thanks for that clarification, Director. That's all.
Thank you, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms.
Kierkiewicz, go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Aloha, Judge Strance, Laureen. Great
to see you both. Just have a question about—and this precedes you, Judge
Strance. But impact the STVR(Short-Term Vacation Rental) regulation has had
on Corporation Counsel staff and budget. And, you know, I track Board of
Appeals and it's quite a lengthy list some months, not so much right now, but just
curious as to what that regulation has had in terms of impact on your budget and
staff. If you could elaborate?
MS. STRANCE: I'm not sure that it has affected our budget. I would have to
double check with the staff on workload. You know, there's been several things
that have added to workload, STVR's may be one of them. But, you know, with
the volcano reaction, you know, there's additional committees that are created to
address those. You know our office is involved in all those. Our office is
involved in the statewide efforts around COVID management. And so there's a
number of things that affect our workload. STVR's I'm sure has impacted the
Board of Appeals caseload and I would have to double check and really talk to
our staff about how that has impacted. You know, there's several departments
right now that have a lot of needs. And so the impact on the workload has been
greater. And so, you know, when you look at like position to department and
things like that, you know, there isn't a lot of change in our number of attorney's
but there has been a change in, an impact I think, on workload.
So we used to talk about caseload versus workload in the private sector. And my
sense in talking to the lawyers in our office, and I'll have Laureen chime in as
well, is that there's been a number of factors that have affected the workload in
our office. And I'm not sure that we can point to any one thing. But there has
definitely been some of that.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you.
MS. MARTIN: As far as the work on the STVR's, we do keep track of that time
and then it is billed through the STVR fund.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Do you have any numbers, Laureen? Or I can follow up
with Director Sako.
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MS. MARTIN: Yeah, I don't have the numbers with me.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. I was just curious. Thank you. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Rebecca, go
ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yes,please. Thank you for being here, Judge Strance. And
thank you for your flexibility and gracious assistance in all the different things
I've had questions for you about, and just really embracing this new role and
position and all of the interesting adventures that come along with it. I just have a
quick question for you. It's something that has been coming to my attention.
And recently a constituent pointed it out to me that it may be different in other
municipalities to have a Corp. Counsel specifically assigned to the County
Council, because your team represents the County as a whole, where to have
somebody from Corp. Counsel specifically assigned to the County Council, from
a budgetary standpoint, would that have to be budgeted through the Clerk's
Office, which then incorporates us?
I'm just looking for how that happens and if you have any experience with that in
other municipalities. It seems that there are some potential benefits for having
somebody assigned to specifically work with the Council, especially in times
when it's challenging for you and your team to represent the interest of the
administration if there are conflicts between what's going on with Council and
administration. I hope that question makes sense.
MS. STRANCE: It does. I think there are a couple of things wrapped up into
that. Right now the County Charter doesn't allow for that separateness. If what
you're asking is within our organizational structure whether it makes sense to
have Corporation Counsel assigned to both represent the Mayor and to represent
County Council, that was a concern that had been expressed to me during my
confirmation. You know, in our office what we've done is if it appears that
something like that has emerged, we will separate out and we'll have somebody
assigned for the Council side and somebody assigned on the department side. So
I'm trying to be sensitive about it more on an informal matter.
I'm not sure I like the idea of having maybe separate offices, because then you'll
have warring lawyers. Yeah, I would hope that, you know, when there are
differences of opinion around the lie you end up with a buffet of options rather
than warring positions. You know, that might be overly optimistic, but I think
that should be the goal. But I think if it reached that point where the Council and
the administration felt so strongly that there was not adequate and good
representation because there were conflicts of interest, I think that would be a
really important conversation to have, brainstorm around, and create some sort of
proposal. Does that help?
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MS. VILLEGAS: It does. Thank you. As fader circumstances have had it, there
have been a number of issues already that have come up in this new
administration, which there seems to be room for improvement for guidance from
Corp. Counsel as it relates to some of the issues that have been questioned by
members of this Council. And so more specific representation and answering of
questions I think is something, I know for myself that I have felt a little bit
challenged by.
And so I think that this is great to continue the conversation around especially as I
just had a number of constituents very adamant about the need for some you
know, you don't want to have warring lawyers, but you want to have some almost
separation of church and state in order for the representation of the intention or
the things that come into question to be taken up with some of what may be just
with a little more determination. So I hope that makes sense in its own weird
way. And with that, I yield. It's been a really long day. So I look forward to
continuing these conversations and working together and all for the best of our
County and our communities.
MS. STRANCE: Thank you. And there's probably a little bit of devil's advocate
around some of that. You know, some of it I understand it. From what I've been
able to observe sometimes, and this is just an observation on a very short duration,
is that I think sometimes there are issues of policy where there's a feeling that it
should be a law and that there's a right way, and there's a legal scientific response
and answer. And from what I've observed, what's really happening is you're
struggling over policy. And so, you know, some of the frustration may be that we
don't jump in more deeply and take a hard-line position on some things. But
some of those hard discussions are hard because they're very difficult policy
discussions to have.
And one of the things that maybe we can do better is to communicate more
clearly where things are policy versus there's a true scientific legal answer. And
my experience is that law is often more art than science. But some things are just
hard because they're hard policy decisions, and you folks are having to make very
difficult decision for our community, and we can't help you with that one.
So there may be some of the other, you know, some of the things I've watched
you folks struggle with, and struggle in earnest, from my seat they're policy or
there are undefined terms, or there's no good answer that you kind of have to
struggle with. And you know, we would like to make some things easier for you
and then there's some things where you folks just really have a hard job, and we
can't help with that.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, thank you for articulating that so well. I know that I
have found in the last few months that there have been a number of things that
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have come before us. And you know, the topics may be challenging, but there
have been unprecedented, new and strange means for some of it being presented.
And kind of like you say, while not illegal my alarms go off in feeling like they're
still ill-advised and not good process or procedure. And so I get concerned about
setting precedence. But you're right, the law is who told the story and how the
story gets told and written down and decided in so many ways.
So thank you for your recognition, validation of the things we do struggle with
and really identifying illegal versus ill-advised, and doing our best to remain pono
and accountable, and the term "transparent" gets overused sometimes. But it is
the goal to make sure that we're not setting precedence for things that we
wouldn't want duplicated or done again, not just in this municipality but in others.
So thank you for your continued flexibility and determination and willingness to
help kind of guide our hand, hold our hand, or make us stand on our own two feet
as the circumstances dictate for that day. And with that, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Anybody else?
It's getting late. I'll just follow up with you real fast. What Mr. Inaba brought
up; he makes a good point. Do you know what's your actual number right now
for 2020-2021 of where your actual stand on a special counsel and settlement
litigation? And I saw you pull out a really nice spreadsheet over there that I have
yet to see. And you said it looks about correct, but are you saying that the
$71,000, for 2019-2020 looks correct as far as your average, you know, special
counsel and settlement litigation? Or $225,000, is more appropriate?
MS. MARTIN: I would say the $225,000, is more appropriate. For the
settlement account, which is $115,000, we're at about$84,000, right now.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And you got about two months left.
What about special counsel?
MS. MARTIN: Special counsel, I think we had $783.00. So, we haven't used
that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, that's a big difference. And then
personal injury payments?
MS. MARTIN: It's below the $10,000, I think, which was budgeted. It's a few
thousand. Again, this is the problem with one car accident, right, that those are
the payments, the no-fault payments. So one car accident could use the entire
$10,000, right.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. I mean, we did have a discussion
about one of the cases you mentioned, and I cannot state specifics because it's
going to be substantially different than these numbers. So just try to help me, I'm
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just following up with what Mr. Inaba said and making sure that we're budgeting
correctly for the coming year.
You know,just to flip back to, you know, regarding litigation. Corp. Counsel
OCE, for travel and conference, you have a pretty sizable increase from 2019-
2020 to 2021-2022. And again, I'm using 2019-2020 because that's our actual
like our normal year. 2021 is just all over the place. But I'm just trying to gage,
most people are actually tuning down the amount of travel they're doing, most
departments, versus going up. So what is the increase in expenses there, from
$23,399 in 2019-2020 to $44,000 budgeted for this coming fiscal year?
MS. MARTIN: So the amount that was budgeted for 2021 is the same amount
that we're budgeting this year, the $44,200. And we have, obviously with
COVID, very limited travel and I don't have that figure
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's why I'm asking, too, because I'm
guessing this year you didn't travel much.
MS. MARTIN: Exactly. I think it's a few thousand dollars probably that we
used.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And looking at 2019-2020, you're
about$20,000, $24,000. But the need to step up to $44,000, for this next fiscal
year, that's my question.
MS. MARTIN: Right, so I know for us a lot of the travel for litigation does
require us to go to the mainland to depose important witnesses or plaintiffs, and
that's a big part of that. And I know I have cases that would require travel, but for
COVID, so once those restrictions are lifted, we're going to have to do that. We
need to depose, if they're an important witness or the plaintiff, we need to do it in
person.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MS. MARTIN: And then we also have court in Honolulu, in federal court which
requires that interisland travel.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Is that local litigation?
MS. MARTIN: Yes, I believe so.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MS. MARTIN: And then we do have—we try and budget for important MLA
training for the Municipal Lawyers Association, which is unique training for
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municipal attorneys throughout the country, and it's incredibly valuable. So I
know we generally try and budget for two or three people to attend that unique
kind of training that you can't get here in Hawaii.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MS. MARTIN: There's also needed training for trial, which we try and send one
litigator to, on the mainland. Again, it's invaluable training. So that's basically
what our travel budget is.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, good. Thank you. It's our job to
ask, yeah. And then mileage, your mileage is substantially down. In this case, I
just want to make sure you get enough budgeted and that you're not under-
budgeting but you're going to need it later. So is that mileage kind of reflective
of what you're going to be doing for traveling?
MS. MARTIN: So for travel, with the Kona Office and hiring new attorneys out
of Kona, we do expect the mileage budget to need to be increased.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Are you planning on using some of
the County fleet when you're traveling back and forth?
MS. MARTIN: Yes. And our office has one vehicle, a Jeep that we moved out to
Kona so that the Kona attorneys can use. But it's not going to be enough.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I believe,just in talking to Riley Saito, that
there's an electric vehicle or a Chevy Volt that they can take back and forth. So if
you want to use that and you can, it's good on gas and it's a County vehicle and
maybe give you another vehicle if it's not being used.
MS. MARTIN: Yes, we're planning on using that and providing the training to
the new deputies.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MS. STRANCE: R&D (Department of Research and Development) has been
generous with us that way.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It's good on gas and it kind of promotes
that green, you know, renewable energy. Other than that your budget looks pretty
tight. You know, you guys are already slim on overtime. Your salary and wages
went up, but we've seen that across the board. We know what that's about. And
then the Board of Ethics, OCE, what's the increase for?
MS. STRANCE: I'm assuming just the expected increase in workload.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. We've been through, you know,
I'm only in my second term. But we've been through a few instances now from
what Rebecca Villegas brought up, or I mean ultimately the easiest way to say it
is you're serving two masters, yeah. County Council's going to have an opinion,
Mayor's Office is going to have an opinion, and there's always going to be
interpretation of the law. Like you said, it's an art. And I've heard this kicked
around a number of times now, and she's touching on something that's just been
brought up by people that I know, members of the community. And, you know, it
comes to your brain sometimes too is perhaps there is a new to have a neutral
parry that we can talk to as a Council, because sometimes the direction we're
heading may be the complete opposite of the Mayor. Whether or not we're
breaking silos or communicating well, it's just we're not always going to agree on
everything. We've seen that a number of times already. We had that with the
Kim administration. So I'm glad that she brought it up, maybe not within your
department, maybe not within the budget hearings, but it's an interesting
discussion that's come up a few times now.
MS. STRANCE: I think if you perceive it as a problem and you're not
comfortable, it's a conversation worth having. Because you want and we want for
you to feel that your interests are being represented and you're not getting some
sort of filtered opinion. So, you know, it's something that's important to me, that
you feel like you're getting what you need and if don't feel like you're getting
what you need, then let's talk about it.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I mean, so far you've been wonderful to
work with. You're very neutral and I appreciate that. And you follow the law,
and you give us a good interpretation. Maybe it'll change in the future, I don't
know, as you get used to us. But as a new start for us and a new Corporation
Counsel head, I've appreciated you so far. But Rebecca raised a good point, so I
just wanted to say that.
MS. STRANCE: You folks have a hard job, and we want to make sure that you
are getting what you feel like you need. And if you're not feeling that way, then
let's have a conversation about it.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Appreciate it. Any further
questions? Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Judge Strance, for getting what
we need. And not at this time, but maybe we could schedule something to talk
about, and in executive session, about some of the long pending cases that we
have over at Corporation Counsel. And I know we ended up hitting the pause
button with some of that progress because of COVID, right, we couldn't do the
depositions, the CJS (Criminal Justice System) stopped trials, all of those things.
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But at some point, and we heard this with the Prosecuting Attorney's Office, is
that switch is going to turn on. And so all of those court dates will come due and
so the workload will start all over again. And so I just want us to be best prepared
as a Council on the different benchmarks or where we're at on some of these
long-standing pending cases, which I'm certain will have a lot of costs associated
with that. And so I'll be putting forward that communication. But, you know,
since I have you right now. Just kind of as a heads up if that's something we can
do especially after the budget cycle, but we can start looking ahead and planning
accordingly.
MS. STRANCE: Yes.
MS. LEE LOY: Great. That was my only request. Thank you, Chair. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Anyone else?
Kona? Holeka, you have any more questions? Rebecca, you good?
MR. INABA: `A`ole.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, seeing nothing else, thank you for
your time tonight. Appreciate it. Drive safely home and thank you for sticking
with us.
(7) Department of Liquor Control:
(Note: At this time, Liquor Control Director Gerald Takase and
Accountant Marcia Matsui came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mr. Takase, mahalo for your patience.
You're up next. Hey, we saved the best for last, Gerald. Please introduce
yourself and your staff.
MR. TAKASE: I guess it's good evening at this point. My name is Gerald
Takase. I'm the Director of Liquor Control, and with me is Marcia Matsui, who
is ourI always forget her real title. She's basically our Accountant in the office
and I think somebody that you folks are familiar with. She's the one that
processes all your contingency fees. Thank you. I think most of you know, but
for the new Council people, I guess I just wanted to say that our department is a
self-funded department. Our revenues are directly derived from liquor fees that
we charge the licensees. So we don't take anything from the County budget and
sometimes we try to put something back for the departments.
We currently, well when fully staffed, we would have 20 employees. We're in
the process of actually hiring three investigators right now. This just got to us,
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one full-time in Kona and half-time in Hilo and in Kona as well. We have
approximately 400 licensees in the County divided into broad categories:
manufacturing; wholesaling; retailing, which is all the stores from the Costco's
down to the mom-and-pop stores; and then our dispensers, which kind of run the
gamut from the hotels and restaurants down to bars and clubs.
A lot of this past year has been occupied by, I'm sure like everybody else, with
COVID. And we've tried to do our part to help the situation. We were able to
monitor a lot of things firsthand and I'd like to say I'm proud of our department
that we were able to keep a lot of our licensees open throughout the whole
pandemic and hopefully provided for some normalcy within the County. We did
a lot of things. They were kind offirst, we extended our store hours, one. And
that was kind of a unique one. Most people look at extending hours at the end of
the day, but licensees came to us, and they were starting to have kupuna hours,
and so they wanted to open up earlier or allow their kupuna to buy liquor when
they were in there at five `o clock in the mornings. So that was something unique,
but I think it's worked out well.
Following that we also relaxed the restrictions for wholesale deliveries. Primarily
they used to do it during working hours, but I guess the stores wanted them to
deliver prior to the stores opening a lot of times. So we relaxed the rules on those
things as well.
Some of the things we've done for the restaurant side is we've relaxed our rules
on outside areas. So we have approved a lot of extended outdoor dining at this
point and time, and we will probably continue through the pandemic. And if it's,
I think it's becoming quite popular, we'll probably continue with that as a method
of one, helping the licensees try to get back to a capacity that can be financially
successful for them. And along with that we've seen lots of other methods of
delivery; take-out, curbside, drive-thru deliveries, by both our retail and dispenser
sides.
Some of the things that we did as a department, we purchased—we have two
manufacturers here: Kuleana Rum up in Kawaihae and Big Island Distillers, or
12'h Island Distillers in Kona. So we purchase from them I want to say about
$5,000 worth of hand sanitizer and we provided some to the Civil Defense, but
also to our licensees so that when they could open, they would be equipped to
take care of that.
In addition, we purchased PPE(Personal Protective Equipment), masks, gloves.
And we also got into the portable fogger business. We purchased ten, five on
each side to loan out to our licensees to kind of assist them in, you know, rather
than trying to go around with their squirt bottles, they could shoot the whole place
at night. And it's still popular. We're loaning them out, you know, as soon as
they come back in.
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And lastly, we've modified our testing schedules. We used to require them to
come to a class and be tested. We've since modified that because we weren't able
to fit enough people and because of the social distancing. So we've started to
allow people that are coming for a renewal of their license to just test without
sitting through the class. And that's helped us keep up with the numbers.
So all of those things we've been able to do to help the licensees through the
pandemic. I think we as a County have kind of led the State. I know we got a lot
of calls from Honolulu, and Maui especially, wanting to know what we were
doing. And these were more from their licensees, you know, how were we able to
do it. And, you know, I'm glad to say that we were able to support our licensees
and keep them running. And that's all I have.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Director. Council? Ms. Lee
Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, thank you, Director. I really don't have any questions, but
other than congratulations for being so innovative during the pandemic. You
know, everybody had to augment services in all kinds of ways and it's actually a
real proud moment for Hawaii County that, you know, other counties were
looking at us and how we did it. I did have one question around testing, and I'm
assuming it's for a blue card. Expand on that a little bit, and it's because I know I
have one, and so I want to be able to renew my blue card.
MR. TAKASE: So we, for all liquor premises we require managers to be on duty.
So it's a blue card for the dispenser side and a yellow card for retail side. So the
manager's card is good for five years. And the at the end of five years you come
in, take another class and then take the test, and then you'd be renewed. And so
going through this pandemic we were kind of getting backed up because, you
know, we would normally have classes of about 30, but our facility wasn't big
enough and we just kind of ran out of days. So we were only doing about ten at a
time.
So, you know, looking at the results of the tests, the people that had just taken it
within the last five years and were actively in the business, they kind of knew
what they had to do. So we kind of came up with this idea of, let's just allow
them to test. If they pass, then good. We're good. If they fail, then they would
have to come and sit through the class. And I want to say it's been pretty
successful. I would say we're probably about 90 percent with those that just
come in for retesting and it's allowed us to kind of catch up.
MS. LEE LOY: Great.
MR. TAKASE: You're coming in?
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MS. LEE LOY: I'm coming in. Thank you, Director. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Richards,
go ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: Thanks, Director, for being here. Question, I know you're
self-funded and your funds come from fees. But through this whole pandemic
shutdown I have to imagine we've seen a substantial reduction, but do you have
enough to get through as we start to spool back up? That's the question.
MR. TAKASE: So through the pandemic kind of crossed fiscal years for us. But
overall, and I've kind of worked with Marcia on this, overall I think we've only
seen about a ten percent reduction. So I know a lot of our, you know, the Hiltons
and the Four Seasons were big contributors previously, and they've been closed
for a better part of the year. And so on that side we're pretty far down. But our
retail side, Costco, KTA, they've
MR. RICHARDS: Skyrocket.
MR. TAKASE: Yeah, so they've kind of made up the difference. So overall, you
know, our revenue is not down that much, and we do have sufficient reserves to
cover that.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And then projections, I assume you're tracking, and
maybe it's more of a question for you, but you're tracking and you're seeing an
upward trend that things are returning more the normalcy as because we are
opening up. Things are looking very positive as far as I can tell.
MR. TAKASE: Yes, so one of my things is to kind of go around and check on
how our businesses are doing. And I was over in Kona a couple weeks ago and I
know the hotels were reporting they're up at 90 percent already. And there seems
to be a lot of activity down on Alii Drive and things. So it seems like things are
coming back very quickly. I know the hotels were telling me they were trouble
actually getting people to come back, as far as employees, because they're still on
their stimulus checks or they found other employment. That seems to be the
bigger problem for them right now. They are seeing the numbers coming back
fairly quickly.
MR. RICHARDS: And I'm curious about your equipment. I thought that's a real
novel approach as far as the foggers, as far as disinfecting. This is going to be
with us for a while, you just going to keep the program running.
MR. TAKASE: Yeah.
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MR. RICHARDS: Indefinitely.
MR. TAKASE: You know, I think as long as there's a need for it, we will have
them available. We were kind of thinking, what are we going to do with these
things once nobody wants them? But we'll cross that when we have to. But, you
know, maybe even long term I think a lot of these disinfecting things are going to
be with us. So we will have them available. We also buy the solution for them.
MR. RICHARDS: That's actually the County really trying hard to get things
back. So congratulations on that and thank you. Chair, that's all. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards.
MR. INABA: Chair?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mr. Inaba, go ahead.
MR. INABA: Mahalo, Mr. Takase. Thank you for being here. I'm on page 104,
everyone. I have a question about—and I do understand. Thank you for
clarifying that you are self-funded. So these are questions about expenditures.
Liquor Control OCE, subsection 103,janitorial services for Hilo and Kona
offices. Is the Kona office not cleaned by general services here?
MR. TAKASE: No, it is. But in Kona right now we have, it's mostly a
night-time crew. So I have only four investigators, so the facility is smaller than
the Hilo facility. But we're paying janitorial services, our Department of Public
Works, for helping to maintain our facilities. So that's what I'm talking about, we
do pay something back to the County.
MR. INABA: Okay. So you have your own janitors cleaning the offices, not our
County employees?
MR. TAKASE: No, no, no. The janitorial services are provided by the
Department of Public Works, and they bill us, and we repay them for taking care
of our offices. And I have to say, they are actually doing a very good job.
MR. INABA: Deanna, is this normal? I mean, sorry, not normal. But I haven't
seen this before. Is this different for Liquor Control versus other departments?
MS. SAKO: So our special funded departments do reimburse for the things like
janitorial. So Liquor would be one, and then some of the special funds. And then
I heard someone say Department of Water. And so, since they're
semiautonomous and not part of our budget, we do bill them for some of the
services we provide to them as well.
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MR. INABA: Got it. Thank you, Deanna. Next question, 104, it seems like a
pretty hefty budget for travel and conferences. What is the travel for, Director?
MR. TAKASE: So we have nine commissioners and five adjudication board
members, so I try to provide them with training through the year. Our situation is
a little unique in that we have jurisdiction over County laws, State laws, and also
federal laws. And there's not much ability to train them federally within the
State, so I try to provide them with at least some training through the year. So
that's where most of the funding goes. We also, I take it as an opportunity to
provide them with, you know, not just book training, but training by going to
other places and seeing what's done. And I think that's helped us a lot for them to
understand how other jurisdictions deal with liquor and what's possible.
You know, a lot of times we are dealing with a lot of mainland vendors coming
in, they do it this way. And, you know, it's not to say that they're wrong, but if
it's something new to us it might take us a little while to understand what they're
doing. But I think by them getting out and seeing things on a national stage,
they've been able to understand and keep up.
We are kind of embarking in a new area because of the internet. So we have a lot
of actually internet liquor sales that are kind of not really monitored by anybody
really well and that's kind of the coming area for us as well as most of the other
jurisdictions in trying to find a way to keep it under some type of scrutiny to
prevent illegal sale of liquor coming in. So we're still working with the other
jurisdictions in trying to, I guess, rope in the common carriers, UPS, FedEx's, to
cooperate with us in providing some inspections and work in that sense. But it's
kind of a coming area. I don't know that we're going to stop it. So I think we just
need to be able to recognize it and monitor it as best as we can.
MR. INABA: Okay. And are you looking towards other municipalities and how
they're working to monitor those online sales? Sorry,just a follow up.
MR. TAKASE: Yes. So we belong to a couple of national organizations. And
it's kind of a national effort among all the states to try to police their areas, and
hopefully that will help with the overall problem.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. Next question, section 112. It has the auto
allowance for investigators at$67,200. So I'm just wondering, that seems
understandable, mileage for the people who are going out to investigate. But I
also see on the next page, section 218, fuel. What is the difference between those
two sections?
MR. TAKASE: So our investigators have car allowances and that's the 112 that
you see. They are subsidized vehicles. And then the fuel is they're allowed to
draw one gallon for every ten miles of travel. So similar to the Police
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Department. Actually, I think we actually draw probably a lot more because we
have less investigators. They're stationed in two basic areas, Hilo and Kona.
And they have to drive, you know, basically police drive over a short area within
their district. They might drive a lot but ours have to go from Kona up to Kohala,
to Waimea, down to K5'u, you know, so they incur a lot of mileage.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. Next section 338. This might be the same
answer as the custodians, but is that also monies that the County is getting just for
rent?
MR. TAKASE: Yes, the West Hawaii Civic Center, that's number one, the
$45,000. We pay basically rent to the County for the use of the West Hawaii
Civic Center.
MR. INABA: Okay, mahalo. Next question. Sorry, Mr. Takase, I just want to
roll us along. 341, other miscellaneous OCE charges, we have $320,000 for
S&W (Salaries and Wages) fringes and plus a health fund. The fringes are equal
to what—this might be a basic finance question, my apologies if it is.
MR. TAKASE: Yeah so, since we are self-funded, we pay back the County for
all those types of things, fringes, health fund. All of those are reimbursed to the
County for whatever we use.
MR. INABA: Okay, last question. Thank you so much. Public programs, what
are $30,000 for special projects. What does that$30,000 get spent on?
MR. TAKASE: We've been trying to have public education programs. In the
past we've had, the name escapes me right now. But they're basically public
programs to help with the prevention of underage drinking. We had enlisted
Augie T when he has still here or actually once he finished with Mayor Kenoi, we
contracted with him to provide some programs for us. So he made a couple
videos that talk about drinking. He also did programs through the schools
targeting mostly the intermediate school students. And previously we had
programs where we used high school athletes to kind of train or go out to the
elementary schools and talk to the students about the hazards of underage
drinking. And right now, because of COVID everything kind of stopped, so
we're kind of looking for some new programs. But that's basically what that
money is for, to try to give something back to the community.
MR. INABA: Okay. And do you work with the Police Department at all on those
efforts?
MR. TAKASE: We have. Like sometimes they've asked us to help fund their
DARE (Drug Abuse Resistance Education) Program and things like that. So we
probably don't do as much as we could, but I think we have a good working
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relationship with them. You know, when they need some funding, we will
provide it to them.
MR. INABA: Thank you. Final question. Just the project grad, what do you
folks do for our project grads here on island.
MR. TAKASE: Yeah, when I started out, I was looking at project grads and, you
know, all the schools used to have grad nights. And I saw them always struggling
to raise money and if they didn't get the money, they weren't going to be able to
have the program. So we started off trying to fund as many of the project grads as
we could, and I think we were pretty successful. And actually the Council
Members, through their contingency funds, have taken over a lot of that from us.
So, you know, we felt it was a very good program, especially for that one night, to
keep, you know, the kids off the roads and in a safe environment. So we've
continued to do that, and I thank the Council for stepping up as well. Some of the
high schools have very elaborate grad nights, so maybe we're giving them too
much money at this point.
MR. INABA: Well thank you, Director Takase, for the explanation and for also
working to support our local businesses and by making some adjustments to the
rules. So big mahalo. Chair, that's all I have. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Good questions.
Ms. Kimball, go ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Director. I have a really simple question. This is
just for me to understand. As a self-funded entity, do you also have to balance
your budget as we do, or do you have a fund balance and any sort of reserves in
case things go differently than planned?
MR. TAKASE: Yes. We do actually have some fund balance. I think we can
save up to twenty percent. But typically what we do is, we'll figure out our
budget and then we in turn look at what the gross liquor sales from all of the
licensees and we will figure out what percentage, and that's how we charge each
of them. So right now I think our percentage is above one half of one percent. By
law we're kind of authorized to, we can go up to one percent. But we've pretty
much stayed down there. I think when we did all the renovations, we might've
gotten up to about maybe three quarters, .75 percent. But we're back down to
about a little over .50 percent. So we have quite a bit of cushion. And what we
do is whatever leftover we have at the end of the year; we'll use that to reduce our
budget that we charge the licensees. So they don't get a direct refund from us, but
it's reflected in—we kind of crank it back into our budget and, you know, it's
kind of like the fund balance, and return it to them that way.
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MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. I was just curious. Appreciate the clarification.
That's it, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Okay, it's my
turn. You always do a wonderful job presenting. Thank you for your time today.
I did have some questions, a couple of them were answered already. I've got to
ask. You're paying the County $45,000 to rent, I just gotta.ask, I mean is that—
did
hatdid you look around? It's not in my best interest to ask you that, but did you shop
around?
MR. TAKASE: Funny you should bring that up, because I think we
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Looking at your fund balance, maybe we
should charge you more.
MR. TAKASE: I think we're being asked to vacate the West Hawaii Civic
Center
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Really.
MR. TAKASE: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow. So we gotta find another building
that's a little bit more expensive than that we can put Liquor Control in. I was
looking at the Hilo one too. I mean, that's high. I didn't realize you guys paid
$62,000 a year. That's crazy.
MR. TAKASE: That's just for CAM (Common Area Maintenance), so actually I
was looking
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's just for CAM?
MR. TAKASE: Yes. We own our space in lagoon.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But they charge you that much just for
CAM?
MR. TAKASE: A dollar a square foot.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow.
MR. TAKASE: Yeah, so I was looking at other places. Actually I was looking at
where the old Home Street Bank, where Hawaii Community Federal Credit
Union is now. I was trying to buy that building, because yeah, our CAM is pretty
high.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: If you spent$20,000, you could put
$40,000 towards budget. I mean, that's a big number. Thank you for looking. I
did have a question. Tim brought it up, too, and I just wanted to follow up.
Liquor license fee, and this is one of the revenues we have for our General Fund,
this runs your department, right?
MR. TAKASE: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Is this projection, I mean is thisI
know it's an estimate but is that a good projection given what's going on with the
economy and, you know, some bars and restaurants that have closed. It's about
$400,000 more than you took in in 2019-2020. So I'm just wondering about that
projection there.
MR. TAKASE: Yes. So our projections run kind of one year behind, because
you cannot remember, but we do end of fiscal year, gross liquor sales report, and
then that's done June 30''. And then we will project out into our budget and
collect from the licensees in November. So we're kind of one year behind
because that was last year's liquor sales and we're projecting it to this year. So
we are one year behind. I know Marcia's a little concerned about where we'll be,
but I kind of
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So this number one year behind would be?
MR. TAKASE: That's what was projected back in 2019. And that was probably
going to be a banner year.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That was a good year.
MR. TAKASE: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So 2020 then, what would be the estimate
for this coming year then, or the next fiscal year's budget, correct?
MR. TAKASE: Yeah. And so, you know, this thing kind of crossed budget
years, so we didn't lower our budgets that much because from what I could tell,
we were still going to have the money. And, you know, projecting it to this year,
you know, we're coming out of it fairly quickly. You know, we maybe got two or
three months left. But I suspect we've bottomed out and we're actually on the
mend already. You know, all our hotels are back open again, which was a big
part of our budget previously. The hotels and the retail were kind of about equal
in terms of revenues. And when the hotels dropped out, we thought we were
going to suffer a lot. But like I said, the retail side really picked up and they kind
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of made up the whole difference. So I'm not seeing any big drop. You know,
like I said, maybe ten percent at most. But even that might not come to pass.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Some very good friends of mine started a
brewery a long, long time ago. And I remember them saying, beer is recession
proof. People drink if they're sad and people drink if they're happy. So it doesn't
matter, they're always going to find a way to drink.
MR. TAKASE: And that seems to be true.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes. Looking through your objectives I
didn't see a report this year on kind of what you were doing in the community,
but it looks like 2019-2020 you did some stings regarding underage drinking, and
you had about a 25 percent no pass.
MR. TAKASE: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And you stated this area will need more
enforcement action. I'm guessing COVID hit, you're not going to be doing a lot
of enforcement during COVID.
MR. TAKASE: We actually have been doing some. The 25 percent, that was
actually because we went into the Waikoloa area, which we've kind of never
touched before, and they didn't fare too well. But on the second go round they
were much better. I think we've never gone there so they were just a little more
lax. On the second go round, they did—I think only one didn't pass the second
time.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow.
MR. TAKASE: Through this COVID, now that we have all these delivery
services and things, we did do compliance checks, doing it against these delivery
services, the drive-thru and drive-up pickups. And I think out of, I forget, under
20, maybe 15 cases, I think only one. But we did it as—we didn't do it as an
enforcement. We did it as a kind of an education one, because I felt bad trying to
site somebody during this catch. But I wanted to let them know that we were still
out there checking. And, you know, I think they were—and they did actually
very well. So I'm kind of glad for that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. And, you know,just to say it, I
mean we closed our business, but you were always very helpful when it came to
just helping us get through the process and the paperwork involved. So just
appreciate you.
MR. TAKASE: And we were sorry to see you leave.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. But to cycle back a little bit.
If there was a fund balance this year, that'll actually decrease the cost for all your
licensees in the County, correct?
MR. TAKASE: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So if there was, you know, if you did find
yourself sitting in a good position at the end of this year, that may actually be
beneficial for the licensees, which I think is really good timing given this may not
be a banner year like you said, you know, that we've seen in the past. So that's
good, that's good. Thank you. Okay, any more questions? You guys want to
stay, we'll call in one more department, maybe?
MR. TAKASE: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for your time, appreciate it. We
don't have to do anything, we can just recess. Recess till tomorrow. We'll see
everybody at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow. Mahalo for your time. Mahalo, Deanna.
Thank you for being so patient with us and thank you for your patience and
waiting till the end of the day as well.
Recess: At 7:11 p.m., the Chair called for a recess until 9:00 a.m. on April 15, 2021.
Reconvene: The Special Meeting of the Committee on Finance was reconvened in the
Council Chambers, Hilo, at 9:00 a.m., Thursday, April 15, 2021, by
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder, Chair
ROLL CALL:
Present: Mr. Matt Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder, Chair
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Vice Chair
Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member
Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member (via videoconference)
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member (via videoconference from Kona)
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member (came in later)
Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member(came in later)
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (via videoconference from Kona)
Absent& Excused: Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Aloha kakahiaka. We're going to take this
meeting out of recess. Mr. Clerk, do we have any testifiers before we get started?
FC-8 April 15,2021
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to provide comment regarding Bill 22
(Comm. 284) as it pertains to the Department of Environmental Management,
Wastewater Division projects), and came forward when called by the Chair:
Sandra Demoruelle.
Jerry Warren.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Today's first department as scheduled is
Civil Defense. Let's go right to our first department then.
DEPARTMENTAL The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
BUDGET AND Departmental Budget and Program Reviews.
PROGRAM
REVIEWS:
1) Civil Defense Agency:
(Note: At this time, Civil Defense Director Talmadge Magno and
Administrative Officer Barry Periatt came forward to address the members
of the Committee.)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Please introduce yourselves and get started
when you're ready. Okay, get started when you're ready. Thank you. Thanks for
being here this morning.
MR. MAGNO: Good morning. Talmadge Magno, Civil Defense Director, and I
have Barry Periatt out here with me, as well. Thanks for having us. Barry's put
together our PowerPoint presentation. I'll get started first, and then he'll follow
up with the guts of it, basically.
(Note: At this time, Mr. Magno and Mr. Periatt provided a PowerPoint
presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the
presentation, please see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file
in the Clerk's Office or navigate to the Council's video archives online
from the County's homepage at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A hard copy of
the presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 103.4.)
MR. PERIATT: So that's what our budget looks like. I'm sure you all have
questions for us, and we're more than happy to answer them for you.
FC-8 April 15,2021
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, both. Let's go to the Council
then, for questions. Thank you for that presentation. It was a well-done
presentation. Who wants to start off? Anyone? Okay, seeing nothing in Hilo.
Kona, any questions?
MS. VILLEGAS: Yes,please.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go ahead, Ms. Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Good morning. Thank you for being here and presenting to us.
Wow, what an interesting couple of years to be in the Civil Defense department
for the Big Island of Hawaii: hurricanes, lava flows, global pandemic. I don't
know what would possibly be next, but I'm grateful that you guys are there, and
these systems are up and running.
I do have a couple of questions today. Now, it's your department that has been
managing the testing at the Kona Airport, correct?
MR. MAGNO: Yes.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Now, does this budget contain the funds necessary for
continued testing into the new fiscal year?
MR. MAGNO: We did not put anything outside of our normal budget, which
ever since the CARES (Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security) Act
ended, has been supplementing the airport operations, under the disaster funds.
MS. VILLEGAS: I'm sorry, Talmadge, can you pull the microphone a little
closer? I'm having a hard time hearing you.
MR. MAGNO: Okay, how's this?
MS. VILLEGAS: Better, thank you. Can you repeat that?
MR. MAGNO: So in this new budget request,just as we are doing right now,
we're just supplementing airport operations, all operations, under our budget, and
the Disaster Fund. This was of course after the CARES Act ran out.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. So, I don't seeI guess I'm just wondering where the
money came from that it's—what it cost to continue testing at the Kona Airport
for the last months now that CARES funding was gone. There's millions of
dollars in expenses, correct?
MR. MAGNO: Well, not—let me make some clarifications. After the
CARES money gave out, airport testing went over to a private entity that took
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care of that service. The only thing we funded at the airports from that time on
was inter-island screening.
MS. VILLEGAS: Was what?
MR. MAGNO: Inter-island screening. Passenger screening.
MS. VILLEGAS: Inter-island screening. Okay, so Civil Defense wasn't the
department that it would have been necessary for funds to go through to pay this
private agency?
MR. MAGNO: No, this private entity is—not volunteer, but this they paid it.
They paid the testing.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, interesting. My sources are a little concerned as they
have a different understanding of what was supposed to be happening and what
was owed, and I'm trying to get a better understanding. I understand that this
budget before us reflects going into 2021 and 2022, but I think it's relevant to
look at what's been happening in the last few months in order to get a better
understanding of how things will be managed going forward.
So would these questions related—and I was trying to figure out which
department would be most appropriate to ask these questions to, so my apologies
if this doesn't fall under Civil Defense. It seemed that this would be most
appropriate. Is there a different department that I should ask these questions?
MR. MAGNO: Well, we work with Finance to fund all these programs.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Is Deanna there?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes, she is.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, Deanna, go ahead.
MS. SAKO: So the testing continued, but we didn't have a contract with anyone
to provide that testing. A separate company contracted with the test provider and
paid them directly, once we ended there with the CARES Act funding. So Civil
Defense helped to coordinate it, But yes, we don't have a contract with that
vendor. Only
MS. VILLEGAS: Who has the contract with them then?
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MS. SAKO: Another entity that donated that.
MS. VILLEGAS: Those are the tests themselves, the test kits. But in order to
process them—and all the people working at the airport, hasn't that been paid for
by the County?
MS. SAKO: So Talmadge does have some staff at the airport, and we do pay for
Roberts to do the inter-island screening, yes.
MS. VILLEGAS: But that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking about the mainland
arrival visitors.
MS. SAKO: Right, the contract for that testing is not between the County and
anyone. The County is not a party to that agreement. We did start paying again
April 1st, but since the CARES Act ran out until April 1st, that was not with the
County.
MS. VILLEGAS: That's interesting. So is it that then being included in budgets
going forward?
MS. SAKO: So we are waiting to see how the vaccine takes hold. You know, the
intention is to use our new federal money to continue any testing that might be
necessary, whether it's at the airport or community testing or other testing, as
well.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. I'm sure you can tell my line of questioning. And last
night there were some urgent issues here on the west side regarding testing at the
Kona Airport and transitioning from different providers, and a gap in service, and
all different kind of stories about monies not paid by the County, and who owes
what to who. So in my desire to have an understanding of how this is being
planned and strategized before going forward into this next year, that's why I'm
asking about what's happened in the last couple of months.
MS. SAKO: Right.
MS. VILLEGAS: I'm going to go ahead and yield at this time. But, Deanna, I
hope you'll be available for me to reach out and ask some more really hard and
intense questions, because there's a lot of concern right now about what's going
on and what's owed by whom to who, and how this has all worked. It's kind of
been this broader
MS. SAKO: Right, yeah.
MS. VILLEGAS: (inaudible)that some philanthropic organization was taking
care of everything. So, thank you. I yield.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. That was a good
question. It has been on everyone's mind. Anyone else in Kona?
MR. INABA: Holeka.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Holeka, go ahead.
MR. INABA: Good morning, Administrator. Good morning, Hilo colleagues.
Let's see, page 101, Section 109, we see a big increase in this section, $300,000,
and it seems to be coming from line number 3, Communication Equipment. Is
this a lease, or what is this?
MR. PERIATT: This is Barry Periatt, with Civil Defense. So that's the money
we took out of the 115 account and moved it to the 109 account, because it wasn't
properly positioned in the 115 account. So it's not an increase in funding
anywhere, it's just moving the money that had already existed, or existed in that
account for this operation, into the correct account.
MR. INABA: Okay. And then 2019-2020, we only spent$26,000. What was the
normal spend prior to that partial COVID year?
MR. PERIATT: For the you know, I'm going to have to go back and research
what we spent out of that account. I know we had turbulence, turmoil. A lot of
things, because we were busy, so some things fell through the cracks. So I can't
tell you exactly how much we historically spent out of that account.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. Next section, page 102, Section 235, we see an
increase there as well, to $15,000. Is that for—did that come from the purchase of
those batteries?
MR. PERIATT: Yes, sir.
MR. INABA: Or the intended purchase of batteries in the future? Sorry.
MR. PERIATT: Yes, sir. And that again, that was to correct a deficiency. We
didn't have a line item to purchase batteries, so we were taking that directly out of
the Radio System Maintenance funds. So we took some money, reapportioned in
our operations piece, to create that account and fund it so that we can replace
batteries when they reach end of life or get close to end of life, and when they're
borrowed by other individuals.
MR. INABA: Thank you. Last question, 5241.06, that's subsection 454. You
have laptops and computers there. What will those be used for primarily, and are
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those adding new equipment to what you folks have or is that replacement? What
is that about?
MR. PERIATT: It's all replacement. So the desktop computers are to replace
the three computers we use to create the common operating picture in the
Emergency Operating Center. Those are the ones that I was addressing earlier.
The current ones, they're end of life; and two, they weren't designed to handle the
ArcGIS System. They don't have enough capacity to do that, so we're purchasing
three computers to replace those.
With the laptops, all of our staff officers and administrative officers have laptops
because we need to be able to take them home if we've got to do a notification
from home. And this is replacing a life-cycle replacement for laptops, we're not
bringing in any new capability with computer purchases. We're replacing
existing systems that are end of life.
MR. INABA: Thank you. And I see moving forward, in that same line, you are
expecting more purchase of equipment, like computers and stuff in the future, is
that correct? Because the following budget year is estimated at double the
current. So what is your plan for your equipment there? Do you have a plan?
MR. PERIATT: Right now, the only thing we have in concrete for equipment
purchases next year is we are going to be replacing more air-conditioning units.
Because the six units that haven't been replaced are all end of life, we're
anticipating we may not get through the next three years. That's why we had to
put a lot more money—or anticipating having a lot more money. We may have to
do all four of the remaining ones next year. That's what that cushion is for.
MR. INABA: Mahalo nui. And thank you so much for always taking care of our
communities and keeping us updated through COVID and through our natural
disasters. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo, Mr. Inaba. I'd like to commend
you on going through the line-item budget and digging a deep dive into different
areas and asking hard questions. Ms. David, you had a question, as well?
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair, yes. In fact, thank you, Administrator, for being
here. Civil Defense, I appreciate your presentation, as well. Mr. Holeka asked
one my questions and thank you for that.
On your Salary & Wages, there's an increase. Could you explain that increase
from $650,000 to estimated $795,000? Maybe Director Sako could explain that.
That's my first question. I don't see any
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(Note: At this time, Finance Director Sako came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
MR. PERIATT: Okay. With that, ma'am, the Account Clerk position wasn't
funded last year, so that's part of that.
MS. DAVID: Okay.
MR. PERIATT: And we had a few employees with return rights who came back,
and their salaries are significantly higher than the base-salary, where those
positions start at, so that's why there's that significant increase.
MS. DAVID: Okay. And so although it's not listed, there's only one position
that's listed, expected to start on July 1st, you have the other staff members that
are—or like transitioning, right? Is that—?
MR. PERIATT: No, ma'am. We just have the one person starting on July 1st
We're going to initiate this hiring process, so we can meet that date. The rest
of the staff are all present now. We just had some folks transition in, in
the December timeframe. And that's where this salary difference comes in,
between—it was originally budgeted for somebody at entry level, and when
they return, they're beyond the entry level significantly.
MS. DAVID: I see, okay. Thank you. Ms. Sako,you want to ?
MS. SAKO: Yeah, I just wanted to add that in addition to those changes, the
other thing is like all the departments, there's really two years' worth of pay
increases in there, because unfortunately we weren't able to put the pay raises in
last year's budget, it was in a provision. So with all the retro-pay and everything,
it's sort of that catch-up, as well. So it was budgeted last year, it was just in a
different account.
MS. DAVID: Thank you for that, Director Sako. That explains it. And let me
see, Account Number 115, Miscellaneous Contract Services, there's a decrease, a
big one. What is that for? Why is the decrease—it was moved to somewhere
else?
MR. PERIATT: Yes, ma'am. That's the Radio System Maintenance funds that
we moved from 115 into 109.
MS. DAVID: Okay, that's the one you were talking about, perfect. And then, let
me see, the radio sites. The increase, probably on 480, is the same—for the same
basic reason, right? You're moving monies for the equipment and radio sites that
you need?
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MR. PERIATT: Yes, ma'am. So we took money out of the operations budget to
be able to fund the replacement of these air-conditioning systems at the radio
sites. Because we look at the radio sites as being one of our primary
responsibilities. That's where that system has to be maintained. It has to be
operational 24 hours.
MS. DAVID: Right, understood. Understood, thank you. And I know there's a
reason why on the next account numbers, the budget for 2020-2021, and then the
future is all zeroed out. Could you explain that?
MR. PERIATT: Yes, ma'am. So with the Multi-Hazard Mitigation Plan, that's
every five years we have to revise the Multi-Hazard Mitigation Plan. So in the
four years in between, they're—it's zeroed out. It's just a placeholder to maintain
the accounts with us and it doesn't have to be created again.
With the Homeland Security Grant funds, they get zeroed out. It doesn't mean
they've disappeared. It's just zeroed out as an accounting purpose.
MS. DAVID: Okay.
MR. PERIATT: We have three years to spend the funds once they're awarded.
Generally, like if you look at the 2018 grant, it was awarded in 2018. We actually
get the funds in fiscal year 2019, so we have through 2022 to spend the funds, and
so that's the lifecycle in the funds. We don't project them out because we don't
know how much money is going to get spent in the years.
MS. DAVID: Exactly. Perfect. Well, thank you for that detailed explanation.
You answered all my questions, and mahalo. I yield, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair David. Here in Hilo,
Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Aloha, Administrator, very good to see
you. Thank you. Thanks for all of your hard work. It's been a very challenging
set of years. And I think with climate change and everything that's happening in
the world, you folks are going to continue to be at the forefront of critical
importance to our County helping us navigate a number of disasters and response.
And I'm just personally grateful, you've been very helpful throughout the
pandemic, helping a number of my constituents get travel exemptions so they can
get lifesaving medical treatment on Oahu, and just really appreciate all the
information and the resources.
Just some follow-up questions based on the Six-Month Progress Report, that I'm
looking at here, in your program objectives. I think on the onset of the pandemic
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one of the questions I had was around the COOP, the Continuity of Operations
Plans for each of the various departments. It was evident that some had, others
didn't,just looking to see if your agency is the one that is sort of like guiding each
of the departments to ensure they have that. And the reason why I ask is because
during times of disaster and especially the pandemic, people are looking to
government for support for these resources, so just wanting to make sure that
operations are consistent and continuing. The reason I ask, because it says, "Not
started: 0% complete;" So,just seeing if any progress has been made?
MR. PERIATT: Progress has been made.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Great.
MR. PERIATT: What we're doing is we've requested training for the staff on
doing train the trainer on the Continuity of Operations Plan, because each
department has a plan. We've discovered that, gee, they're not adequate. So part
of what we're trying to do is create that capability within our office so that when
it's time to revise the plan, we're able to direct them in the correct way and get a
plan that's functioning, that keeps their essential task which is what all the COOP
is about, making sure they still can do their tasks, yet we've had the resources to
respond during an emergency.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And who are you leveraging to do these, train the trainers?
MR. PERIATT: We've asked for FEMA (Federal Emergency Management
Agency) training.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay.
MR. PERIATT: At the Continuity of Operations Plan is a FEMA program. To
be able to fully understand it—we've taken the online courses that are offered at
the Emergency Management Institute. Now we just need to get deeper
knowledge and to be able to fully facilitate the production of these plans.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, great. Thank you. And love hearing the fact that,
you know, one of the program objectives this year is to tackle Chapter 7.
Council Member Lee Loy and I were, you know, we had preliminary
conversations with Talmadge about that. We're working with Roy Takemoto. So
understanding that this is being driven by changes to statute, but what else? I
mean, is the After-Action Report from the 2018 eruption helping to sort of guide
any changes to the Code? I mean, I feel like there are a lot of lessons learned that
maybe you're applying to the pandemic and to code changes, and do you want to
give you an opportunity to elaborate what those are.
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MR. MAGNO: So back to your original question, about the Continuity Of
Operations Plan. I also wanted to add that I've been in discussion with the
Mayor, and he's supportive of the program. Also to bring on his new cabinet and
those department heads along with this program. So at all levels, we'll work at
that.
As far as the After Action from 2018, we have been instituting, like Barry talked
about the GIS program, that's all part of it, which includes Everbridge for
communication. So I think we have been working on a lot of the big-ticket items
created from that After Action, which also includes COOP plans.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Right. Administrator, you brought up Everbridge. I
noticed in the report about 10,000 individuals are signed up for it. Have you seen
any increase during the pandemic; and you know, is there a plan to encourage
more residents to sign up for these critical messages?
MR. MAGNO: There has been a slow increase, you know, you can see the
numbers climbing. But in addition to what you see, that 10,000, is all that social
media. We brought on a whole cadre of emergency hires during this event. So
we have one person monitoring social media, and she's tracking all the different
demographics as far as—so we're outreaching to way beyond 10,000 people.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Great.
MR. PERIATT: If I may add to that? In the Everbridge System, we have roughly
10,000 who have registered, signed up themselves. Everybody is in the system.
If we have to send an alert, that's going to affect the entire island, even people
who haven't signed up are already registered in the system. We don't send
message traffic to them right now, when we're talking about the pandemic, or a
flooding, or a road closure, because they didn't sign up for it. But if we have a
tsunami coming and we need to get people out, we have the ability to reach
everyone on the island if they have a phone, if their number is in the phonebook,
and even unlisted numbers are in the system. We can reach the entire island, if
they have a phone.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay.
MR. MAGNO: Right. So if you want to cover all the different programs, even
folks that—the travelers. If they are on the island, we've got the national wireless
emergency alert system, so we can hit every cellphone that's on the island. I
think our outreach, for when it needs to be, could be very vast.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Great. So those systems are in place in the event that we
really need it.
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MR. MAGNO: Yes.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Tsunami, eruption, whatever have you. We've
experienced so much of it. Thank you.
I just wanted to spend a little bit of time on the radio systems. I know that one
was taken out during the 2018 eruption, and we were as a County trying to
secure—is it 428 monies to reinstitute that system? I just ask this because I've
gone to a couple of ride-alongs with Fire and Police, and not catching in certain
locations the radio system. So just wondering if you had an update on where we
are with capturing federal funds. Or maybe this is a question for Deanna. But it's
critical for Puna. Just a high-level overview, and I can follow up with you folks
for more details. Thank you.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: So that was a specific project to replace the radio. And we're
currently under the appeal process because what FEMA said it would cost us to
replace that equipment on the tower, it's costing much more. So we should be
hearing back from them in the next week or two, and then they can move ahead
with the project.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Deanna, can you share what the disconnect is, like why
they are not seeing the value in what our objectives are and what our cost
estimates are to replace?
MS. SAKO: I think they understand the importance of the system. But when the
original cost estimates were done, for whatever reason they were much lower, you
know, whatever was accepted by FEMA. And so now that we're actually going
ahead and moving forward with the project and we have the estimates, they're a
lot higher than what FEMA thought it would cost.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. And please keep me posted if we need
to leverage our Congressional Delegation. Happy to make a call to them.
MS. SAKO: Will do.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks. Just a final question, folks, and it's two-part. I
want to know how we can better leverage our community partners. No secret,
2018 it was part of community to found Pu`uhonua o Puna, that information and
supply hub. And I think there are ways that the County can partner with
community. You know, I noticed in your reports here you talk about CERT
(Community Emergency Response Team) teams, and many of these individuals
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are high-risk population and don't want to put themselves out in harm's way if
they can avoid it, specifically in the pandemic.
So just plans to further engage community and train them out. Maybe not as
intensely as CERT, even though that's what we would like. But in the moment of
disasters, when they're activating,just want there to be some communication and
collaboration between the County, because you have access to the best
information and resources and ensuring that flows nicely, to community boots on
the ground that really know how to respond based on the uniqueness and culture
of their particular neighborhoods.
MR. MAGNO: You know, I thought we were making some pretty good headway
after the eruption. And then with this pandemic, a lot of things had to kind of
scale back because of the isolation or the distancing that we had to create. So, a
lot of programs have hurt. But you're right as far as outreaching. You know, the
CERT communities—and we're about to start some outreach because of the
different activities that's going on in the island. That we have to get people
notified of what's going on so that they can be prepared. And then, we're also
going to go into hurricane season shortly so again, another opportunity to get
people integrated with our operation.
Our capacity is limited, so you can kind of see right now that with all the
operations we're running, the public outreach is difficult. As we move through
this pandemic and things open up more, I see that we can move, you know, not
just with CERT but into the community. I guess knowing who's out there that
wants to collaborate, you know, if we could start that movement, first to get that
idea of that list and then we can make that—steps forward to start working
together.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Talmadge, I don't want you to feel as if I am directing you
to do more. I think that every one of us on the Council is here for a reason, and
it's because our community trusts us to represent their interests, and we have vast
networks and connections. So let us help you, right? We can help you design
what that list looks like, map that out. I mean, there are assets in every
community that we can be leveraging to start various resilience hubs. I think
that's critical. There are things that I think community can do. Low-hanging
fruit. I'm looking at your program objectives; if we can more residents trained up
in doing damage assessments, I think that would be very helpful, so we're not
leaving federal money on the table.
There's also Inventory = Track all Hawaii Island Disaster Response Resources,
we can help with that. And if the Civil Defense dashboard can be used to sort of
house all that information, great. But look at us as partners in helping you to sort
of continue and elevate this work. I just don't want to have these same
conversations again during budget cycle. You guys are stretched really thin. This
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is an invitation, I guess, to collaborate with you folks. So, thank you. Thanks for
all of your hard work.
MR. MAGNO: Yeah.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz.
Mr. Richards, go ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: Thanks, Chair. Thanks, Director, for being here. I'm just
going to segue right off of what Ms. Kierkiewicz just talked about. And, Ashley,
to the point, Talmadge has reached out to start the collaboration process.
Talmadge, we talked about the siren over at Waikoloa. And just so people hear it,
because this is a public thing, the siren has been approved. It's forthcoming. It's
in the hands of the contractor to put it up whenever that comes. And so, there's
nothing more for us to do to push that any faster, any farther, is that correct?
MR. MAGNO: Right. The notice to proceed has been issued to the contractor.
You know, we can kind of keep track. And with State, trying to motivate them to
get the contractor going, my last communication is that when they start work, they
like to line up several jobs.
MR. RICHARDS: Right.
MR. MAGNO: So, you know, there's a lot of work to do on the island regarding
sirens. I have no timeline at this point. But they're at the point that everything's
been taken care of already, and it should start. Should start.
MR. RICHARDS: Should start, yeah. So, it's in process and it's in the queue.
It's approved, it's funded, it's all set to go, and we're just waiting for the
contractor to actually get the thing built?
MR. MAGNO: Yes.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. So I just wanted to because I'm sure there are people
on Waikoloa side, and we've been talking about this as long as I've been in
office, so I'm glad that's forthcoming.
Now, talking about the CERT, and we've talked about this—and I completely
agree that you guys are stretched thin. Civil Defense hasn't gotten a break since
we've been in, you know, at least since I've been on Council. But I'm hoping
that you guys would be able to take a little bit of pause and start catching up.
Couple of things I'm concerned about. End of life cycles of equipment, there's
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noI don't see a plan policy going forward. We discussed this with the
Fire Department. We discussed this with IT (Information Technology). That
needs to be a structure coming forth. And there will be—we as a Council have to
help you find the funding to get that, but a plan, obsolescence plan, recycling,
whatever the case may be. That is very, very important for us going forward.
And I hear what you're saying about, you know, we're coming end of cycle and
we have to replace these things. I completely agree, but we need to have plan for
that replacement. So a capital investment, whatever, however you want to term it,
and we as Council are going to help find it. I'm looking over at Deanna, and
she's nodding vigorously. But I think that some funds should be coming available
going forward as we get into this job plan, the American Jobs Plan. So I'm
hoping that we're going to be able to find some funding for you as we go into this.
Talking about that, as well, sitting on the GIA (Grants In Aid), the Red Cross, and
I know you've been interacting with Red Cross quite a bit unfortunately, for the
last couple of years. When we talked to them, I asked the question, "How are you
guys set up to respond?" He said, "Well initially,before the lava episode . . ." So
this was a little bit stutter-step, but now they've been activated so much, they're
really working smoothly. The point on that is that that's the end-of-action report,
is what we're talking about here, planning going forward.
Spring boarding off of that, talking about the CERT teams. Council Woman
Kimball and I have been talking about coordinating the CERT teams between her
District 1 and my District 9; and Talmadge, we've had those conversations about
that, to get that together. We've also discussed about coming up, and I guess I
would say the realigning or rewriting the emergency plans for our districts and
having whatever we need to do,public output. We're there and we're ready to get
things going. We have people ready to help to do that. But again, you guys have
been stretched, and making plans when you guys are in the middle of responding
to a whole bunch of stuff is hard, I realize that. But I think the timing is right.
You know when we talked about the repeaters that we have, we've got to get
these things deployed. And so as we're going through this, for me, what I'd like
to see is plans for the obsolescence and the plan replacement of equipment
coming forth; and then setting up programs for engaging the community to help
with these emergency plans. And like I said—like Ashley said, we stand ready to
help out with this kind of stuff. Because our district, you know, wildfire is huge
in my district. And we have the escape road, where we had Director Rodenhurst
two weeks ago now going through the escape road. That's actually in pretty good
shape. They've been doing a really good job taking care of that. But the
communication thing is key and paramount. And we want to help make sure that
we haveI think you can refer to it, Talmadge is the backbone, the
communication backbone, to make sure.
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So going forward, that's what I think we can do to help you help us. So I just
wanted to get that stuff out there and see where we can go. I don't have any big
questions on your budget. But I think we can help you find some stuff to start
improving the overall engagement especially from the civilian side, the CERT
teams and things like that, the volunteer side. So that's all I've got for you right
now. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Ms. Kimball, go
ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. Thank you both for being here. It's nice to
see you in person. We've talked a couple of times on the phone and coming over
to visit you folks has been high on my list; and unfortunately, I haven't had the
opportunity to do that yet. I'd like to get eyes on the operations. That's kind of
I'm a visual person.
I run off of what Council Member Richards was saying in terms of the need. We
talked about this with the other departments. I'm sure you watched the videos,
but just sort of understanding of what the equipment needs will be over the
long-term and plans regarding maintenance. Do you guys have a maintenance
plan in place already for the ? You guys have a lot of critical equipment
obviously, is there a maintenance plan in place?
MR. MAGNO: There is a partial maintenance plan in place actually, with the
new radio system, Motorola, was contracted to continue with a 10-year
maintenance plan. But we're talking about the bigger structures, the actual
structures, I guess, that need some kind of towers or repeater sites. They need a
site plan for them.
MS. KIMBALL: I wonder if that actually this isI'm going to talk about the
CERT training and the community involvement a little bit here, too. I wonder if
that's something that we should not put on you guys. There's been a couple
comments about how much you folks have to be responsible for, and I'm looking
at the overtime numbers, which means there are periods of time that you guys
obviously have to do, go above and beyond already.
We've had an unusual couple of years, but I don't think that they should be
considered unusual for the future. I mean I think we're the given climate
change and the other things going on—I mean, you've got to be tough to live
here, right? It's not for wimps. You got hurricanes. You've got tsunamis.
You've got earthquakes. You've got volcanoes. You've got climate change,
flooding, fires. You're a crisis response organization, and I think that we should
expect that.
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What I want to throw up to my colleagues is for us to think about, there's all these
planning pieces that need to get done, and I wonder if they don't belong
somewhere else. And I'm not sayingI'm not trying to diminish your expertise,
because obviously you have tremendous expertise, but I wonder if, for example,
R&D (Research and Development) might have a role in some of this outreach
effort. And I'm just throwing it out there for conversation, I'm not trying to
prescribe it. But I'm trying to understand that you folks are your role is to
respond to crisis, and maybe because there are these gaps in addressing, like
Program 360 and the COOP, that maybe we may need to pull some of that out. Is
there a standard operating procedure you provide to the departments for the
development of their COOPS?
MR. PERIATT: No ma'am, there isn't. When the COOP plans were originally
developed, we brought in FEMA and a contractor to develop those plans, and they
were put together.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay.
MR. PERIATT: That's why there was no institutional knowledge to maintain
them and refine them. And that's why we sought—we've taken the online
training. Now we're seeking the train the trainer training, so that we can help the
departments bring those COOP plans into a usable document.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, okay. There's a couple of interesting points there. But
some of the stuff being able to be contractedI mean I know we contracted the
Multi-Hazard Mitigation Plan. To me, that document was a little bit nothing. I'm
not going to go too much into detail. But did we get grant funding for that or was
that something that came out of our budget?
MR. PERIATT: Well, it was funded 75 percent. For the Multi-Hazard
Mitigation Plan, we do have a 25 percent match with that.
MS. KIMBALL: And is that federally funded?
MR. PERIATT: It' federally funded.
MS. KIMBALL: Through FEMA?
MR. PERIATT: We go after a mitigation grant to do that.
MS. KIMBALL: Great, okay. And that's five years? We need to do that every
five years?
MR. PERIATT: Yes, ma'am. In order to be eligible for any federal funding, the
Mitigation Plan has to be updated every five years.
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MS. KIMBALL: The Everbridge, I assume that's the $46,000 electronic
notification?
MR. PERIATT: Yes, ma'am.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, seems like an excellent tool.
MR. PERIATT: It is. The price tag, you look at it, if you want to look at a
percentage of our budget, our Operating Budget, that's a big chunk. But what we
get out of it, we think it's worth every penny.
MS. KIMBALL: It sounds like it, and I have no problems with that money. I'm
curious though, you said three years is the current contract. Are we expecting a
major jump? Is it they're losing money onus right now? I mean, are we
expecting this to be one and half times, double? What percentage increase do you
think we'll expect in three years?
MR. PERIATT: Based on their current billing cycle, it would the cost would
more than double. When it's time to renew the contract, we would do a Request
for Proposals, and so we'll solicit bids from all the providers. We like the system
we have now, and we think it's the best one for us. But we'll have to cross that
bridge when we get there, seeing what else is available when it's time to do that
renewal of the contract.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. I have one last question about the computer hardware.
Deanna, Director Sako, is this lease-to-own or just buy outright? And should
we—if it's not lease-to-own, should we maybe consider leasing for these guys?
just because—with GIS in particular, and some of the Civil Defense-related
software, I mean that—it's pretty rapid development of need for the hardware to
support it. I'm just wondering if it makes more sense to just lease instead of buy
outright.
MS. SAKO: They'll look at it when we get to that point in discussion with IT,
just to make sure we're all on the same page. But some of these things are
lease-to-own because we doI realize it changes quickly, but we do tend to use it
a little longer, you know, and make it last. But we can evaluate the options when
the time comes.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. Yeah, I just want to throw that out there because—are
these figures for a purchase?
MS. SAKO: The ones in the equipment account?
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah.
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MS. SAKO: Yeah, in the equipment account, they're under they're for
purchase; and when they're under rental or a lease, then they're to lease it out.
MS. KIMBALL: Of course, that makes sense. Alright, that's all the questions I
have for you folks. Thanks, Chair. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms. Lee Loy, do
you have a question?
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thanks, gentlemen, for being here. I just had
a couple of questions. Does the department of a supplemental budget?
MR. MAGNO: No.
MS. LEE LOY: Perfect. You know, earlier Ms. Kierkiewicz talked about it,
you know, the After-Action Plan and then some of the needs. And we've
talked about this, and it sounds like you guys are right at the cusp of kind of
developing a Needs Assessment Plan. But I was wondering how the After-Action
Plan and the policies kind of—your requirements, you know, through HRS
(Hawai`i Revised Statutes), if there was an ability to crosswalk that information
so we could actually develop better policy at the County level. And this actually
spring boarding off of with some of the work that myself and Ms. Kierkiewicz
started on how to revise Chapter 7 a little bit, to make it more available to you
folks to be trigger-ready.
MR. MAGNO: I think we can definitely have that conversation as far as what we
got out of the After-Action Review and how that could be input into whatever
policies that we need to enact.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I think we have two functions here on the dais, right? It's
the budget and then legislate, right? What I hear my colleagues saying is, "Let us
help you,"right? So if we can legislate policy that actually helps, then that's what
we also want to do. So as we glean out information related to the budget, we also
want to create successes, and if gleaning out information from the budget also
requires a policy shift, we want to hear that also.
So yeah, if we could kind of reconnect on changing up Chapter 7 a little bit and
using some of the tools that you guys already have available and some of the
needs that we might be able to foresee or forecast, that would be incredibly
helpful for our work, you know, aside from the budget, great.
MR. MAGNO: Absolutely. Thank you.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, gentlemen. I yield.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Mr. Chung, go ahead.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah. Hi, good morning, Barry, Talmadge. I just have a few
comments, questions; and this is unlike, you know, what I've asked of the other
public safety components of our County. I didn't get to ask it of Police yesterday.
Is this budget enough for you guys? Is your budget enough for you guys to carry
out, you know, your responsibilities in a safe manner to the community? I mean I
know you've got to say yes, right? But I know there's a lot of constraints that you
folks have, right? Instructions of keeping a status quo budget and—what are your
thoughts? And I'm not trying—it's not a loaded question. I just want your
feelings on this. I mean, where could improve? Where we could we beef up
funding for you, if possible?
MR. MAGNO: Well, if we're talking pie-in-the-sky situation?
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, well not total pie-in-the-sky; but you know,just reasonable
pie-in-the-sky.
MR. MAGNO: Well, you know, we've seen this. As Barry pointed out, as we
undergo back-to-back incidents and overlapping incidents, simultaneous
incidents, it was pointed out here as far as community outreach and so forth, it
would be great if we could reach and take care of all those activities. You know, I
kind of hope you know, because we are pretty active in Kona, west side, and we
don't really have a presence on that side. One of thoughts is to have an office on
that side.
MR. CHUNG: I see.
MR. MAGNO: You know, we can get by with this budget. I think, you know,
maintain safety for the community and do the outreach, if we're not busy doing
other stuff. But a little bit more capacity on the west side would help us expand.
MR. CHUNG: That's nice. And that kind of follows up with what Ms. Lee Loy
was talking about, a Needs Assessment. So that's something that you would like
to see, and maybe we could all work towards getting that done.
You know,just in terms of comparison, and I don't know the answer to this. I'm
not asking loaded questions; I just want to get more information. How much
staffing does like Maui County have for their Civil Defense Agency? Do you
know?
MR. MAGNO: Maui is comparable to us.
MR. CHUNG: Okay.
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MR. MAGNO: They're slowing bringing their numbers down. They had a bunch
of vacancies. Kauai, actually looked at us as a template and are trying to follow
us. But we're all pretty much equivalent. You know, that 127 Alpha, the reason
for that is so that under emergency, we can bring about all the County resources.
MR. CHUNG: Right. So in terms of manpower and personnel resources, you
guys are okay then, I mean, with the exception that you would like to beef up your
presence out on West Hawaii?
MR. MAGNO: Right. So I would say for our current situation, we're good for
the east side, that numbers; but now we're like—my staff is spread out all over the
island.
MR. CHUNG: Okay.
MR. MAGNO: And so that's splitting us up. For most of this pandemic, I had
staff not even in the EOC (Emergency Operations Center) because they had to be
on the west side, so we kind of lost continuity with that person. You know, the
island is growing. The population is split, and we've got to care for everybody.
So not just the dense populations, but the remote areas too, we've got to make
sure that we're aiding those folks.
MR. CHUNG: Well, I would suggest you work with our West Hawaii
contingent as well as everyone else here, you know, because I'm sure we support
that concept. And perhaps maybe not in this budget, maybe even in this budget
but in budgets to come, could move in that direction, yeah, incrementally, when
you get to a certain place.
But I just wanted to thank you for all you guys do. I think one of the unsung
things from your department that I've heard, and I think both Ms. Kierkiewicz
and Ms. Lee Loy as well, is the support you guys have been putting forth for the
vaccination clinics. People don't know about that, yeah, what you guys have been
doing in support of them. And I've heard that, you know, from all of those people
who have been putting on these clinics. They're really appreciative of what you
guys have been doing. I just wanted to make that comment. But thank you for all
your good work.
MR. MAGNO: It's definitely been a team effort. You know, everybody that's
here—and I've got to put a shout out to the Guard(National Guard)because
they're a big part of it. With them, a lot of these operations wouldn't go on.
Thanks.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Ms. Villegas, do
you have a follow-up question?
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MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder. I do. Talmadge, can
you tell me who the contracted vendor for the IT (Dept. of Information
Technology) equipment and software that Civil Defense is seeking funding for?
MR. MAGNO: You know, for computer equipment, I believe we go through IT
and procurement, as far as you know, we give them the specs, and they provide
the equipment.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. So you guys don't do the RFP (Request for Proposal)
for all that?
MR. MAGNO: We'll work with purchasing to come up with the specification,
and then that will go out.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair. Director, thank you again. I just have one
comment and a question regarding your final status report. On the radio system
upgrade in the South Point and Ocean View tower site, could you—is that the like
the radio system that would allow our people to be able to get notices better? Are
you upgrading so that the Civil Defense kind of messages can get out? Is that
what these upgrades are?
MR. MAGNO: No, we're talking about two different things. So the LMR (Land
Mobile Radio) is actually the County's radio system that Fire, Police, us, Public
Works, anybody that's got a—Mass Transit, anybody that runs a radio operation.
MS. DAVID: Okay.
MR. MAGNO: That's what we're talking about. So South Point is going to be
redone. But to answer your question, what we've been—we're working with
Chris Leonard, and he is the PL-1, the primary radio station for emergency
messaging on this island. He's gone out, and it looks like the South Point site is
the preferred to put, I guess it's a transmitter, so that he can broadcast into your
communities with his station.
MS. DAVID: Okay.
MR. MAGNO: So we're looking at that. It's going to be about$50,000, and then
we'll see if we can get federal money for that.
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MS. DAVID: Really? Okay, because that's pretty much a concern, Especially
for the Ka`u area. Mainly Pahala is very remote and that would greatly help that
rural community. And let me know if you folks need some help in supporting that
effort,just give me a buzz, okay? And other than that, I really thank you folks for
all you folks have done in this pandemic and all the other disasters that we've
been having. I know you'll hear that all day. We can't appreciate you enough, so
mahalo for you and your department for all that do you and your explanation on
this radio. Thank you very much.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. David. Holeka, any
follow-up questions?
MR. INABA: A`ole thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Hilo, I see no lights. Okay,
gentlemen, good presentation. I liked your budget review in the beginning, that
was very helpful. You guys have about$900,000 increase in your budget. I'm
looking at 2019-2020, and I think you spelled some of those changes and where
they came from. I'm just going to follow up on some of the things that I heard
that don't quite line up, or just for clarification.
You said three computers, but what I'm seeing on here desktop PCs (personal
computers) there's ten listed. I and wanted to clarify with you on whether or not
you meant to say three, but that's ten. But you have $14,700 for desktop PCs in
your budget for 2021-2022.
MR. PERIATT: For that, it's three desktop computers and seven laptop
computers. That's the total, and that's what's on our 201. So if it's saying
something else there, that's an error. So, we'll have to get corrected.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, you've got on here desktop PCs,
ten at$14,700, and then you have a separate line item for laptop. It just says
"laptop," and then there's $7,700. So your total, and I'm looking at that jump
there for Civil Defense Agency equipment at about$22,000.
MR. PERIATT: Okay.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And already budgeted.
MR. PERIATT: Like I said, that ten is not accurate. We're looking at three. And
the total price for the desktop, our GIS (Geographic Information System) is
$9,675. That's the price list put out by Finance for the GIS capable desktop
computer.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so
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MR. PERIATT: I stand corrected, we also are purchasing three more desktops
that are not GIS capable, and that total is $14,000. So we're purchasing a total of
ten computers. The three laptops are included in that line item.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So what's the laptop line item then, for
$7,700?
MR. PERIATT: That's the laptop mid-range PCs. There's three of those, and
based on the cost list provided by Finance, three of those equates to $7,712.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm sorry, you're buying laptops within the
desktop PC line item as well as buying laptops on laptop line item?
MR. PERIATT: No, sir. We're buying seven desktops and three laptops. We're
buying a total of ten computers. We intend to replace a total of ten computers.
The ten listed, under the desktop PCs is an error. That should be a seven.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. PERIATT: And then we're doing the three laptops in addition to that. So
it's ten total computers we intend on replacing this year.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so three laptops under that line time,
so you're looking at about$2,500 per laptop, is that right?
MR. PERIATT: Essentially, yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow, okay.
MR. PERIATT: Yeah, that's—and we don't make up the figures. We take them
direct from the price list that were provided for a computer replacement.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Civil Defense, Sandbags, zero for
2019-2020, and we saw some—we know how much flooding we get. It's not
really a question. Are sandbags a normal purchase for you? Are you providing
these to the community? What's the deal? Because usually it's bring your own
sandbag, we provide the sand.
MR. PERIATT: We provide that's the strategy we've been employing lately.
However, we do maintain—we purchase sandbags. Public Works delivers those
when there's active flooding going on. So individuals may have gone to the
sandpile and gotten sandbags and protected themselves. Not everyone does that,
and even if you do that, sometimes the conditions are much worse than you
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anticipated. Just this last year, we had massive flooding that we haven't seen in a
while.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah,just last month we had massive
flooding.
MR. PERIATT: Yeah. We purchased sandbags. We don't purchase them every
year, but we keep that line item in there because it all depends on the conditions
and how we're affected. Right now we do have, I believe, 3,000 sandbags still in
the warehouse. When Public Works needs them, they get them; if we need to
provide them during an emergency, that's where they go. So we maintain a stash
for those purposes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, that's good. Now you were talking
about batteries, batteries are expensive, especially if you're talking DC, well
they're all DC, if the don't—
MR.
on'tMR. PERIATT: They're about$140 a piece, the batteries we use.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And people are stealing them?
MR. PERIATT: In some locations. And that's the problem with being in remote
locations. There's not anyone around.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So they have time and no one watching.
MR. PERIATT: They've got time to go in and case the place, and"Okay, I can
go get these batteries." The most—we've taken steps at some of the remote sites
that are primary targets. In fact, Kauna Point was just broken into last week.
Pictures of the individuals have been turned over to the Police Department, and
they're working on that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Good, okay. Maybe we could find
something a little bit more shocking when they open that cabinet.
MR. PERIATT: Well, I don't know if we can do that but.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Without getting ourselves in trouble. I see
the difference between your 115 account and your 109 account. Thank you for
clarifying what that jump was.
Just to touch on, you know, your Civil Defense, Everbridge. You said you
10,000 people currently signed up, a possibility of sending out a mass
communication, if needed, a notification. But 10,000 people really isn't that
much compared to our island population. So when we look at cost rising because
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of the need to address so many people of that mass notification system, but only
10,000 being reached, I'm trying to figure out what that—it seems like a little
disconnect between the amount of people we're reaching versus the
overwhelming notifications on the Everbridge provider. Just touch on that for me,
if you can?
MR. PERIATT: Yes, sir. When we brought Everbridge online, what we did, part
of the process is, every phone number on this island, every landline phone
number, every business, every home, even unlisted numbers, are loaded in to the
Everbridge System, so we have access. If we have to reach anyone on this island,
we can do so. We don't do that, because frankly people—if it's a road closure,
most people don't want to be bothered with that. So we only send out to the
people who subscribed and asked to receive those type of notifications.
Now, what Everbridge gives us the capability of doing is doing a mass
notification in a geographic area. So we do Polycom; every telephone in that
Polycom that we draw gets called. If you enter it, if you're coming you're not
in that Polycom and you enter it while alert is going on, you'll receive that call.
Even if we sent it out several hours ago, your phone is going to ring and you're
going to get that message. So it'sif you look at just that people who've signed
up, those are the people we reach every day,just because they've signed up for
notifications. But the Everbridge gives us the capability to reach an area that's
being impacted, everybody in the area, and then to be able to contact the entire
island without people having signed up.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Understood. I think my questions are
sorry before you go on, I think my question more is, did Everbridge not
understand the amount of people that we service when we signed the original
contract? We're a fairly a small population. They would've wanted to you
know, our population hasn't grown exponentially. So did they not understand
what they're walking into when they provided the first contract to do a mass
notification system, or did we not submit the right numbers to them?
MR. PERIATT: No, the numbers they used—all of them used for our island
an estimate of 80,000, based on participation and that. And if you look at our
population, and 80,000, that's just about every household—if you're looking at
80,000 households. So, that wasn't the issue.
All the other systems—Everbridge uses—we wanted—one of our requirements
when we did the RFP, was we wanted a one cost. We didn't want additional cost
to be able to text, to send emails, to do phone calls. We wanted one cost upfront.
That's why Everbridge was a little more expensive than the rest. The rest of the
systems had a lower upfront cost, but we were charged for each thing that we did.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
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MR. PERIATT: And Everbridge has since, during our first year of the contract,
they switched their billing model to one that reflects the other vendors or
providers out there.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I guess they realized, you know, a hole that
they want to fill with some extra income from anybody who is using their service.
MR. PERIATT: Correct. And so they wanted to implement that. Because we're
on our second year of the contract, they wanted to implement it. We said, "Look,
you all gave us this option year, and you signed on for four additional years at our
pleasure. We renewed the contract. It's there." So they've gone ahead and
agreed to that, and that's why they're losing money on us. We do a lot of
messaging. We do it because we think it's necessary. That's one of our functions
to keep the public informed. And it's—our cost, if they were to be billing us on
their current billing cycle, would run into about$200,000 right now, as the
salesperson put it to me the other day.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's substantial.
MR. PERIATT: That's substantial.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: From $46,000 to $200,000,per year?
MR. PERIATT: Yeah. Based on the amount of traffic we send out—we've tried
to reduce the amount of traffic we use because we're not—you know, it's not our
intent to—we're trying to work with them. Because they changed—and we don't
want them to lose money. Like I said, we like the system. It does what we need it
to do. We're just hoping they come around with their pricing model, when it's
time to do the RFP. But we've got them for three more years if we choose to
continue to renew the contract.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for holding their feet to the fire
as far as providing what they estimated in their original contract, and not going
with that larger quote then. That would be even a larger increase in your budget
then, as well.
You know, something has come up again and again, especially as we look at
climate change, tsunami inundation. I looked at some of the maps; but if you look
at Hilo, basically every facility, major facility we have, is within a possible
inundation zone. Our County buildingsI mean even Chris Leonard, he's barely
outside of the inundation zone. So what is our plan for that going forward? If we
had a 10-foot, 20-foot tsunami,just putting it out there, do we have a plan going
forward? And I see in here, it's there, it's being discussed, but do we have a real
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plan for that? Even almost every one of our County's facilities, major County
facilities, is in that zone.
MR. MAGNO: You know, and that comes down to the COOP Plan, basically.
Every department, you know, whether it's a simple electrical problem in the
building that shuts you down and you've got to move to another office, or a
disaster that takes out your whole building and all your infrastructure, that's
where the COOP Plan comes in. We don't have a plan at that level.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It's not out of the possibility range. I
mean, given what we've seen in the past ten years, it's definitely within the scope
that we could see a large tsunami could happen.
MR. PERIATT: Yes, sir. And part of the Police certification, their annual
certification process, they're in charge over the actual evacuation. It's their
responsibility. Part of their certification process is to have the plan, and we have
the copy of their plan on how they're going to do the evacuation piece. Hilo,
Kailua-Kona, those are the two areas that are primarily responsible. But it covers
the entire island. It's just those two areas, Kailua-Kona and Hilo, where we have
the mass population that is sitting in an inundation zone.
Part of the inundation studies, when we do the Multi-Hazard Mitigation Plan,
is an inundation study is done. The current study that exists took into account the
1946 tsunami, the 1960 tsunami, 1957 tsunami, the 1975 tsunami—so
Alaska, Kamchatka, and Chile, and then Halape. And it also looked at modeling
Pac-Cascadia(Pacific Northwest's Cascadia fault line), so Pacific Northwest. It
looked at Japan event, since now we have data for Japan or some data for Japan,
it mapped or modeled an event happening at Mariana Trench in Guam. And then
it looked another event down in Fiji, where almost never get affected from
anything there, the thermometry doesn't equate to it.
So, that was all done and put into the study. The inundation map we have is of a
worst-case scenario. So if Alaska were to be the event, Hilo would be hit harder
than Kona. If it's in American Samoa, Guam, obviously Kona is going hit harder
than Hilo. So it takes into account all of that, and so it's a worst-case scenario.
And when you look at that, we overlaid that with our current evacuations zone.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: What was the size of the wave for your
worse-case scenario?
MR. PERIATT: The worse-case scenarioI don't know the size of the wave.
The wave's variable. But they provide us the inundation for it. And in the
worse-case inundation, right now you're sitting in what's called the Kaiko`o
Project, was completed in 1971.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We're also sitting almost on the side of
Shinmachi, yeah, which is ?
MR. PERIATT: I understand.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah.
MR. PERIATT: And that's why they did the Kaiko`o Project, which they
completed in 1971. That elevated the ground we're sitting on, almost 30 feet. So
in the current study, you'll seen inundation that passes this building.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah.
MR. PERIATT: Goes over the Aupuni Center. But in the inundation study now,
it ends here. The inundation stops here because of what was done to mediate or
mitigate the event of a tsunami.
MR. MAGNO: So the guidelines by Pacific Tsunami Warning Center is a quarter
mile inland or 50 foot in elevation to get outside of the inundation zone.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That has to be based on some kind of a
wave height, yeah?
MR. MAGNO: It's based on what we've had historically.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: When was that done?
MR. PERIATT: The study was last done for the 2005 Multi-Hazard Mitigation
Plan.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I wonder if they took into account
an estimated three-to-five-foot raise in sea level?
MR. MAGNO: Probably not at that time.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Probably not done, yeah?
MR. MAGNO: So as far as what you're bringing up, sounds like the evacuation
part, you know, we work on that every year, trying to nail that down, and we're
putting in a big effort on it this year. You know, like you pointed out, the
infrastructure that's within that inundation zone, as far as planning for that, that's
long-range planning. If you want to move those items out of that kind of hazard
area or to create redundancy for those infrastructures, that's a huge cost.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: There's apart of the reason I'm bringing
it up, we have the Coastal Zone Management, and there's a large piece of funding
coming in to study that area, what it's going to look like in the future and how to
plan for that. So it may be worthwhile tapping into a little better or combining the
two plans and taking a look at them together. I don't know if that's helpful or not,
or if you're aware of that.
MR. MAGNO: No, but we should confine plans where it's appropriate, and
definitely take into considerations all the hazards that we look at here.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. Two other things.
Within your budget, now you got radio equipment, repair system maintenance,
and then communication equipment maintenance, but they seem to all kind of
overlap as far as being radio equipment based. Is there a reason for the
separation? Sorry to bounce back and forth.
MR. PERIATT: There is a reason for the separation. The $360,000 is for the
overall County system.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. PERIATT: And then our radio equipment repair, that's for the individual
Civil Defense radios. The contract, or the maintenance contract, when those were
purchased, has since expired. And so that's what our Radio Systems Manager
said conceivably, this is how much money we'll need to maintain our radios in
our vehicles and our hand-held radios, so that's where that money comes in.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. PERIATT: So that's the $12,000, out of the Radio System maintenance.
That's our Radio System equipment.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I see you get in 109, you've got
communication equipment maintenance; and then you get seven, Other Radio
Equipment Repair. And if I flip the page
MR. PERIATT: Okay. I'll have to—I've got to talk to the Radio Systems
Manager. I know why we did the $12,000. I don't know what the $5,000 here of
the top of my head is for. And I know the $360,000 is all the contracts to go into
maintaining the radio system, from the towers to the generators, to the batteries.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah,just for ease of going into the budget
and just for making it real transparent, because you know, we're not budget
analysts, but I'm just looking at different categories that fall into the same section,
really. I'm just trying to break it down.
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And then the same one for a/c systems equipment and a/c maintenance, same
idea? Because you have three a/c systems radio sites. It's about$10,000 a
system, and you also had a a/c maintenance.
MR. PERIATT: The a/c systems for the radio sites, that's for the radio system.
The a/c maintenance is for our facilities.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, okay.
MR. PERIATT: So we run at the EOC, and also we maintain a system at the
warehouse because we have some stuff down there that needs climate control.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And what kind you know, at
$10,000 a piece, if three is the correct number—did you say three or two, when
you talked about this?
MR. PERIATT: I talked about two. When we were replacing these, we
discovered there's several things we need to do in the contracting process, which
increased the contract, for getting them replaced. And that's why we looked at
$15,000 is the correct cushion to able to replace the system and have it fully
operational. Because we're going back now, we have design cost that we had to
go into and now electrical installation costs that weren't part of the original
contract. So the goal is two, if we can—depending on the cost, we'll go ahead
and go with three. So as I said, those six systems are at end of life. So, we don't
know how long they're going to go.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We saw something similar with IT. They
had two redundant a/c systems, both failed, which cost us a server. So yes,
please. But I'm just checking your numbers. It says three on there, and you said
two. Okay.
MR. PERIATT: Yeah. So two—on our 201, we put two, and I think it does say
three in the actual budget we did there, but in realityI should have corrected
that. Because when talking with Ron, our Radio System's Manager over
additional cost, we had to come up with based on not having everything in the
initial contract to replace that air conditioner. That's what increased the cost. So
we went from, okay, we can do three, to we can do two, and we'll do two each
year.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And just because we're talking
about it, you know, what kind of a/c system is that, for $15,000 a piece? Right.
That's a nice system. Just because I know, when we did a system across the street
and we had an a/c down for a 16 by 20 room, and it was about$400,000 I think
for the replacement.
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MR. PERIATT: The exact system, I can't tell you the specifics. I just know it's
sufficient. The radio shack for each tower, it's cooling. It's sufficient to do that.
So I can get you the specifics on the radio, or the air conditioning system.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just checking. Just doing my job. You
know, actually, try get some numbers for me. Shoot them back to me, if you can.
I'd be interested because that's a fairly nice a/c system. I come from the electrical
field, yeah, so it's not unknown to me. Yeah, okay. Thank you. That's all my
questions.
And then before I close them up, you know, we have been through so much, and
say at least in the last six seven years, if not forever. But you guys do an amazing
job and you're there when we need you. I just want to mahalo you, and not just
you two but everybody else within your department. And given what we did to
the COVID, and tsunamis, and constant flooding, it just—it never ends. But I just
really appreciate what you guys have put into it and continue it, and you're sitting
here in front of us and you're still wanting to keep going. Mahalo for your time
today. I appreciate it. And please take back to your staff as well and let them
know. Okay, thank you. Thank you for being here today.
Council Members, I'm going to give you a quick—let's do a five-minute recess,
and we'll come back. So let's be back here at 10:55 a.m.
Recess: At 10:50 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 10:55 a.m.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Aloha and welcome back. Our next
department for the Special Meeting of the Committee on Finance thank you for
coming back from recess—is Department of Mass Transportation (sic).
2) Mass Transit:
(Note: At this time, Mass Transit Administrator Brenda Carreira and
Administrative Assistant Trixy Groaning came forward to address the
members of the Committee)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Brenda, why don't you go ahead and
introduce yourself and your staff and go ahead and get started.
MS. CARREIRA: Good morning, everyone. Good morning, Mr. Chair and the
rest of the Council.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Good morning.
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MS. CARREIRA: For the record, my name is Brenda Carreira and I'm the Mass
Transit Administrator of the Mass Transit Agency. Sitting to my right hand, who
does actually three jobs for me, is Trixy Groaning. She's the Administrative
Assistant I and has taken over many, many other duties, and I'm extremely
thankful for her.
First of all, I'd like to just say I consider myself very blessed to be back with the
County, to be from the Big Island, to have this job especially during these times,
when other people are not working or are not as best but blessed to be on the
team. I wanted to emphasize that because when I came in 2018, we started with
former Mayor Kim, and I truly learned again from the beginning what it means to
be as a team. And with our new Mayor, Mayor Mitch Roth and Managing
Director Lee Lord, it continues the teamwork.
And I'd be the first to say that I'm blessed because we have been assisted by
Research and Development, by Finance, by Human Resources, Department of
Public Works, and P&R(Parks and Recreation)I'm sure I'm missing
someone but it truly was when I went, and in to the times where we could have
a cabinet meeting with everybody, to look around and know I not only had
friends, but I had family. So we continue to have,but I thank also, the Council
for your support and the continued support. We do have a presentation. If you
will, on the PowerPoint?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes,please.
(Note: At this time, Ms. Carreira provided a PowerPoint presentation to
the members of the Committee. For viewing of subject presentation, see
the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office or
navigate to the Council's video archives online from the County's
homepage at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A hard copy of the presentation is
made a part of the record, see Comm. 103.5.)
MS. CARREIRA: So, whatever questions. So I know I went by pretty fast, but
we're definitely open for any questions. Again, I appreciate when people ask me
for help, and I'd be the first to say, "Yeah." It's hard sometimes to ask for help,
but I've got better at it, but I think I see some ways that we can do that, Of course
if we can do better, always, always open for the communication and for the
assistance. You know, I'd like to thinkI believe we are better. We're doing
better. We are more reliable, except for when there's traffic congestion. But we
don't have as many complaints that come in about the buses not coming. Trying
to communicate more. And we're only going to get better, thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Thank you, Brenda. Always I
think with you, a very heartfelt presentation, so, thank you. I was going to go to
Kona. Questions from Kona?
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MR. INABA: Comeback,please.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I got no lights on here in Hilo.
Maile?
MR. INABA: Well, I'm reading then, starting. If there's no lights there, this is
Holeka.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Nope, I got no lights in Hilo. Go ahead,
Holeka.
MR. INABA: Okay. Administrator, thank you for the explanation and for
hosting those meetings recently that I was able to participate in for our potential
hub here in Kona.
I have a question. I am on page 115 of the black binder, and it relates to the
taxicab investigation. Can you explain what that is, the $25,000?
MS. CARREIRA: I'm so sorry. Oh, hold on. Sorry, sorry. That wouldn't
happen. We would only use those funds if we were to investigate anything,
because we're in charge of the taxi cabs, getting the licenses or giving licenses
out. That if we needed to investigate any particular taxi, that's the money that
would be used for that. We have not had to use it, but we budget for it.
MR. INABA: And who would be in charge of conducting that investigation?
MS. CARREIRA: That comes to our department, but I believe we could actually
go through the professional the list that we get of professional services.
MR. INABA: Sorry, so who conducts the actual investigation if there's a report?
MS. CARREIRA: An investigator. It wouldn't be any staff member from us, but
we would contract out.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. And then—let's see, 5311.82 Federal Transit
Administration, is that just the total? What is included in that$1,071,000?
MS. CARREIRA: I'll have Trixy handle that.
MS. GROANING: Hi. Trixy Groaning, Administrative Services Assistant I.
That is one of our grants, so that is the money that the FTA (Federal
Transportation Administration)provides to us that we apply for every year. That
helps us with our operation expenses.
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MR. INABA: Okay. So those are the operating expenses, right? That's this—is
expenditures. So those are the expenses for what exactly?
MS. GROANING: That's just the grant that helps us with our services. So we
often use it towards our Hele-On contract—so towards paying for drivers. We're
working with FTA on getting a clear idea of how we can use it on the
supplemental buses, as well.
MR. INABA: Okay. And then 5311.97, it says "no grant." But is this a grant?
Low-No (Low or No Fuel Emission Vehicle Program) Grant? I'm not sure, a
little confused.
MS. CARREIRA: The Low-No is the grant that we go through Federal Transit
Administration, but the recipient is the Department of Transportation for electric
vehicles. So the Low-No Grant, one of them like I said earlier, is for one bus.
The last grant that we just did this—was just filed, the DOT did, is another
Low-No grant for the three electric vehicles and the chargers, and that's
specifically for electrification of the fleet.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. That's all I have regarding the budget. And I'll
reach out to you later, Brenda, about some other questions. Mahalo again.
MS. CARREIRA: Thank you, sir.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ms. Kimball, go
ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Hi, Brenda, thanks for being here. Nice to meet you. I just
have a question about the census data and moving us into the urban. What is the
cycle on that? I mean, is it going to be the census data comes out, we're
determined to be over 200,000, boom, we're urban, these things start happening?
I'm asking because I was talking to Senator Shatz's office, and there was like a
little bit of a delay, like almost two years. Is that your understanding, as well?
MS. CARREIRA: I believe it could be, yes.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. And to do—does this—is there an enabling component
from the State? Like, do they have to there was a couple of resolutions from the
House and Senate that I thought were maybe there for—okay, if we hit this
threshold then yes, we can have this Mass Transit Authority. I think it was under
a different term. But is there a requirement that the State enable us then, as well?
MS. CARREIRA: I think so. But you know, I'm sorry, I don't really know.
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MS. KIMBALL: Maybe colleagues know. I don't know if that'sI just wanted
us to be on top of it so that there's no unintended because of those died as far as
I know this current—yeah. But if it's going to be delayed anyway because of
things that happened at the federal level, then maybe it's inconsequential.
MS. CARREIRA: I can inquire and get back to you.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, thank you.
MS. CARREIRA: Sure.
MS. KIMBALL: I'd appreciate it. Just so we're on top of it.
MS. CARREIRA: Sure.
MS. KIMBALL: And then, the Sustainability Partners, and maybe Director Sako
can answer this. I thought we had entered into a contract with them. Oh, not yet?
They're still negotiating? Oh, okay.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: Yeah,just to clarify, the State went out for an RFP (Request for
Proposals) for those type things, and I believe there was an awarded vendor for
that. But I don't know that we've actually entered into a contract yet, that's why
Brenda said she's working with R&D (Department of Research and
Development) and Riley Saito on that.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, so the State actually is the one that has the
MS. SAKO: They did RFPs for vendors and selected the best vendor, and then
it's up to us to negotiate with that vendor, something that would work for us.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, great.
MS. SAKO: Because we're going to make sure it's cost beneficial.
MS. KIMBALL: Right, okay. I noticed, you know, big cost for you folks is
electricity. I'm not surprised. Any plans to add PV (photovoltaic) or some other
alternative energy to reduce the electricity cost for you folks?
MS. CARREIRA: You know, that's something that we've explored. Because I
was talking to Trixy too, even with the infrastructure and everything with HELCO
(Hawai`i Electric Light Company) is, to try and use, yeah, EV(Electric Vehicles).
Riley came up with something. And also, solar to do all of that. Those are
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options for us to explore. We need to go through all of it, you know, whatever we
can to reduce.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah. You have that wonderful roof there.
MS. CARREIRA: Exactly.
MS. KIMBALL: It's perfect. Solar panels, Matt, hint, hint.
MS. CARREIRA: I use Riley. You know, basically people talk to Riley, and he
just kind of explains it to me. But he's actually even diagramed it and stuff like
that. So through the help with the other departments, yes, we have to look at
others.
MS. KIMBALL: Along those same lines,just talking about training a little bit. I
know that something that you and I kind of touched upon, is making sure your
mechanical staff knows how to deal with the new types of buses, whether it's EV,
or hydrogen, or hybrid. Where is that in the budget? Are you beginning any of
that training, cross-training work for your folks?
MS. CARREIRA: Part of it is the grant. But with the hydrogen, with Mitch
Yuen and others, he's already sent us kind of like this to do—he's done a little bit
of a training, but online training manual, so that our mechanics can go at their
pace to do that. I'm sure there will be more. US Hybrid, with the hydrogen, once
they're here, would come here, and they have to do their own training, hands-on,
with our mechanics. And the electrification, even like with Sustainability
Partners too, if they're purchasing the vehicles, is they would need to provide
training also. But when I went to the conference in 2019, AC Transit, they have
places that have training.
So I'm trying not to reinvent the wheel, but kind of look at what they have, and
I'm talking with the other counties with their electric vehicles. So, you know, if
you bring somebody, we can kind of share that person. But we're going to try and
do is much online, virtual, but it just doesn't beat the actual. You know, my
understand, even like the hydrogen, normal—maybe buses might have 3,500
parts, with the hydrogen it's 1,500, so there's less parts. But yeah, yes, we will be
doing the training.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, great. And then as far as your capital improvements, of
these, anything they're in order of priority obviously, but what's shovel-ready?
You know, we've been asking—Council Richards and I have been asking in
terms of what we can ask for money for. When some of these federal programs,
the job programs come out, there is intention I believe to put money towards Mass
Transit. Any of these ready to go?
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MS. CARREIRA: Probably the shelters. The bus shelters, yes.
MS. KIMBALL: Just the bus shelters, okay. Alright, that's all the questions I
have. Although I am going to put a plug in, and we've talked about this before,
for putting your Kona side maintenance facility by Palamanui. My
recommendation—or maybe I was talking to Joanna Herkes about that. But just
thinking about the educational opportunity that might exist with alternative fuel,
mass transit infrastructure, and the school there,just a plug in your ear about that.
MS. CARREIRA: Oh, good understanding it. And I'm sorry I failed to mention
that I apologize. Is that, also with the electrification, is working—Riley had
brought this up also, and we talked about the Hawai`i Community College of UH
(University of Hawaii)trying to set up a program there, to get—by the mechanics
or, you know—so that they could be hired. But start the program there, also.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah.
MS. CARREIRA: I believe they contacted the UH already.
MS. KIMBALL: Great. Yeah, good. Okay, thanks. I yield Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Yes, thank you, Chair. Aloha, Ms. Carreira and Trixy, and thank
you for your presentation. You know, in hindsight, from listening to the
presentation from last fiscal and now, I really appreciate the progress that your
department has made with respect to what you've planned, what your vision was,
and what's being accomplished currently, so I just wanted to thank you folks for
that.
And then also, to ask—let me see, on your paratransit expansion, congratulations
on expansions to Waimea and Puna. Is there any plans do you see plans for
paratransit in the near future for Ka`u district, mainly Pahala and Ocean View?
MS. CARREIRA: That is something we're still researching with Tiffany Kai,
because part of it is she was trying to find somebody that we could have contact
with out in Ka`u. Because of the distance too, it will probably be longer. But our
intent is to have paratransit everywhere because it needs to be. It has to be.
MS. DAVID: Yeah, I know. And that's—especially in the rural communities,
those are the calls that I have been getting. And I need to note that your comment
about the complaints decreasing is pretty accurate, because sinceI'd say in
hindsight, since last year, my office really has had very minimal calls regarding
the bus system and your scheduling, and so I just wanted to thank you for that.
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And I think questions about your budget is pretty much self-explanatory, so I
won't go into that. I just needed to ask you about the paratransit—the future of
paratransit for the District of Ka`u. Other than that, I really thank you folks for all
your hard work. Chair, thank you. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. David. Ms. Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: No, thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sorry, there's no lights in Hilo. Okay,
Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: I have a question, actually. Thank you, ladies, for being here
today. And I'm looking at two parts, one is your program highlights and then
your six-months progress. The bus ridership, we have a total of about 500,000.
MS. CARREIRA: You're talking to fiscal year 2019?
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, 2019-2020, total rider—or passengers, I should say. I
guess gleaning, from the program highlights, it's a total between the passenger
trips, paratransit, and then the taxi cabs. That's correct?
MS. CARREIRA: Yes.
MS. LEE LOY: That's correct. Are these duplicated or unduplicated numbers?
MS. CARREIRA: Those numbers are not duplicated.
MS. LEE LOY: Not duplicated. And then the passenger trips for the bus, is that
the same cost per passenger as it is for taxi cabs?
MS. CARREIRA: No, it would be different.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay, so when I look at your program measures, you have total
passengers, right? So bus, taxi, paratransit.
MS. CARREIRA: Okay, you're talking about the Mass Transit Agency General
Excise Tax?
MS. LEE LOY: Yes. Yeah, so the program measures total passenger is about
500,000, with each the cost per passenger, costing about$18 per passenger.
MS. CARREIRA: Yes, ma'am.
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MS. LEE LOY: Is that an average? And I'm asking because you just stated that
the cost to ride the bus is different from the cost for paratransit, but you've
lumped all of the totals together and come up with price per rider.
MS. GROANING: When we did this program measures, it kind was following
what's been done in the past. Where it was never asked to separate it; if you want
it to be separated, we can. We're still looking at it. It's hard to give you a more
accurate average due to COVID and all of that as well, because it's not an—we're
still feeling it out, right? So, we are working on it, though. It is one of things that
we're trying to update and give a more accurate number.
MS. CARREIRA: Do you want us to do that?
MS. LEE LOY: But I think it's helpful. Because if we're managing expectations,
right, and then you guys go ahead and budget out based on what I see as an
inaccurate assumption that it cost$18 per ride, when we know it to be more on
the paratransit, and maybe even more in taxicab. And so it's challenging to set up
a budget for you folks when you guys are utilizing what we know now are errors
from the past and pulling it forward, and then demonstrating or showing us a
budget that's actually set up for failure. I think that's my challenge right now.
I have three other colleagues who sat on the nonprofit grant-in-aid, and the
highest barrier to services for our vulnerable population, number one, was
transportation. And so this information is critical to us, because as we award to
our nonprofits or the nonprofits are trying to plan for services, this is some of the
data that they're gleaning from. How much is it for a paratransit ride?
MS. GROANING: Sorry, I just need clarification on what you're asking. So in
regard to the fares, the fares differ across each program. And then as far as the
cost, is that we that's why we're asking for more positions as we really need
look into that to give something more accurate in regard to the cost per passenger
for each of those programs. But that's why I do need a little more clarification,
Sue.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and I think that's why we're both asking the same thing.
MS. GROANING: Yes.
MS. LEE LOY: Because there's two parts, right? One is the cost, right? But
how much are we subsidizing that ride?
MS. GROANING: A lot.
MS. CARREIRA: She can tell you that.
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MS. GROANING: Yeah, we are
MS. LEE LOY: So what's that number?
MS. GROANING: So like for example, share ride taxis, because of the program
that it got established under, and that's on our to-do list, is to look at the—really
look at the fares and update them and see—it's in the Master Plan, as well. A
shared ride coupon can range anywhere from $2 to $6 per coupon. Because if you
buy one coupon, it's $6. You buy five, it's $10. You buy ten, it's $25. You buy
15, it's $30, so the dollar value per coupon differs. We're looking—we're
constantly talking about updating it, while not taking away from the people at the
same time.
But that program also, as we put in our slide that we didn't really go into detail of,
is it's the same as our bus. So, we're constantly looking at that. And this is why
the other reason Brenda is asking for an Assistant Administrator, because this
stuff that she could get help with. Is looking at those programs, really looking in
depth of it and seeing where we could go and what we could do.
For example, we may get—so for example, we are estimating we may get
$350,000 in revenues for taxi coupon sales, which have dropped significantly
because of COVID, but paying out over $1 million to the vendors for it, and
they're actually asking for more because of the increase in fuel prices. And the
fact that because of COVID, we cannot actually do it as a share ride because of
the social distancing. So it's a lot that needs to be looked into.
MS. LEE LOY: I'm again hearing a lot of concern and problems. We're trying
to find solutions and put the right resources. Maybe I'll ask it a different way.
Total passengers 500,000, cost per passenger $18, is that an average then?
MS. GROANING: Yes, it would be an average across the entire—all three
programs—or all the programs, I should say.
MS. LEE LOY: But now looking ahead, you budget a total of 875,000 riders or
passengers, but at the exact same amount of$18 a ride. And this is where I'm
having problems with the budget, we haven't extrapolated the accurate
information nor have we—we haven't even put in the accurate information. And
so when I'm looking at the budget, it's going to fail. It's going to fail. And so
I'm having a real hard time even ask questions about your budget, as if we're
going to be providing this service. Because we're going to provide a service
based on numbers that has no context to one another, and then we're going to ask
the taxpayers to either raise fees or supplement it some more from Highway Fund,
or GE(General Excise) Fund, or General Fund—and we're purchasing
equipment.
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And if you think these questions are hard right now, when that Federal Transit
audit comes, my questions are vanilla. I'm going to yield right now.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: And maybe, Deanna, I just want to have an offline conversation.
Yeah, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Aloha, Director. Thanks for talking story
on all of this stuff. Okay, first thing I've got start out this morning, I was driving
in and I saw this big blue bus that says zero emission, run by Roberts. So kudos,
finally getting the needle starting to move. But, you know, we've got to talk
story.
Again, Brenda, I've been the one that's been most critical of Mass Transit, and
it's not because I don't think it. The reason I've been most critical is because I
think we need it. It's imperative that we have it. I think the need for it is great.
When we first took office, our budget was $10 million, and we're now at
$23 (million). This was part of the plan, and this is in the Master Plan. I've got
all that.
Couple of questions I have. First of all, last year we had a grant from the
feds approving purchase of five buses, approximately. If I recall, it was a
$5 million. What was the FTA of grant? Because we hadI want to say it was
$5 million.
MS. GROANING: That's the grant that is still with FTA. It's still with HDOT
(Hawai`i Department of Transportation. The ten—it's actually ten buses.
MR. RICHARDS: Ten buses at$5 million, yeah.
MS. GROANING: They would supply us with $5 million, and we would pay
$1 million.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, how many of those busses have we received?
MS. GROANING: It's still at the STIP (State Transportation Improvement
Program) level, where we haven't got the go ahead to actually use the funds yet.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And at the same time,we had $5 million in the budget
to purchase 10 more buses, where is that?
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MS. GROANING: So like Brenda mentioned in her presentation, she got
informed at the end of fiscal year 2019 that we got the award, with the
understanding that we would—well, at the end of fiscal 2020, that we got the
award, so we put it in the budget because we wanted to move on it. When
COVID hit, we got paused. We keep asking them basically almost every month,
"Where is this money?" Like, "Are we going get it,"because we need those
buses.
MR. RICHARDS: But these are two different words. One was a line item in the
budget, and one was a federal grant.
MS. GROANING: They're the same thing. So which one—can you explain?
Like, can you point out which line item you're—like, specifically?
MR. RICHARDS: No, this was from last year. What I'm trying to find out, is
where the purchasing on those buses. Because this was the point, I was going to
work on cutting that$5 million last year; and we did not cut, and I said, "But we
have the money coming forth from a federal grant so we can ," and I won't use
the word that I used last year because I've been corrected for using the word.
Deanna, can you clarify this for us, please?
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: Which is the grant you ? So the $5 million we came in for earlier
this year is the one that Trixy is saying is still held up at Department of
Transportation, at the State level. And then the money that we had in the budget
before to buy the buses, you know, our Purchasing Department has various
deadlines, and so whatever information we receive in time, we do put out for bid.
I'm not sure if that one made the cut-off last year. But they have been actively
pursuing the buses and getting the bids out this year.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, so that clarifies what we're talking about, and
thank you for that. This was my point, last year, and I said we have COVID
before us, we're not even going to get any of these buses. So I wanted to reduce
our budget by $5 million. We didn't, so I assume that's going to show up in our
fund balance coming forward, is that correct?
MS. SAKO: It's in the General Excise Tax Fund Balance.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, and this was my point. Because we went through a
whole bunch of hoop jumping, and we didn't do a good job managing those
funds. So we never got any of the buses. We had a potential for 20 buses. We
had the funding for 20 buses, but we got zero. Okay, that was the first question.
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Second question, Director, where are with the tow truck that was in the budget
last year?
MS. CARREIRA: We didn't put in for one, and part of it was—well, when
looking into the pandemic, looking at what's fiscally responsible, and we weren't
towing as many vehicles as we did, and even now we're not. We didn't order
because I didn't feel that it was responsible. But the money was still in there
because we—it was still a recommendation by even SSFM that we go forward.
But I was not comfortable paying for a tow truck that was $400,00, if we weren't
going to use it, you know.
MR. RICHARDS: Brenda, I commend you for doing that because as you recall, I
argued against it.
MS. CARREIRA: Yes, sir.
MR. RICHARDS: It was parking money and something that we realistically,
number one, couldn't afford, and number two, we weren't really going to need it.
So thank you very much for not ordering the bus because that saves us half a
million dollars.
Now also, and I also want to commend you on that, is that in sitting in our
meeting earlier, it was this week, your commitment to going to—what is that
trendy term? Low Emission, No Emission, and committing towards going to
55 Low-No buses, right? 2025, I want to verify that. I heard that correctly, right?
MS. CARREIRA: Okay, I'm not sure who would be under the Low-No grant, but
it's with Sustainability Partners.
MR. RICHARDS: Right.
MS. CARREIRA: And this new contract, well they're saying they're—what
they needed to know is what kind of buses we needed and how many, and
we've gathered that information. And then what happens, is Sustainability
Partners—is because they would buy the vehicle. They can even pay for
infrastructure. They go out to the bus manufacturers. So in our, like our Master
Plan, we had staggered, like five this year, five the next, so you don't have, you
know, five when you're doing at the same time. But their feeling was, "No, do
the 55 one time,"because it behooves them to get paid per mile, that bus stays up
there. So any time the goes down, they just replace. So then I said, "Okay, if
you're going to pay for this, so it saves me $55 million,"which I don't have, you
know. "Okay, then do it all. But give us time to get all the infrastructure in."
Because the infrastructure is going to be in Hilo, infrastructure in Kona.
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Even with electrification and charging, what we're looking at, a lot of the hotel
buses is requesting assistance from—in Waikoloa to allow us to have chargers
there. To look at inductive charging with all the hubs, is to have electric charging
at those facilities so that we're not charging at peak ours. So that whole, whole
thing. And I said, "Okay, if you can buy it,"but we needed help to know. Now I
know where we're going, what it is, and what's Sustainability Partners, because I
was—and the federal government always wants to give—wants us to into low
emissions or no emissions. So, they're going to have some more grants, you
know. But yes.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay, so the point is—and yeah, it wasn't the point whether
this was going to be in the Low-No grant or
MS. CARREIRA: Oh, okay.
MR. RICHARDS: It was the direction of the department. You need 32 or
33 buses to fulfill, and then you said you wanted in that reserve of 22 buses.
MS. CARREIRA: Twenty-something spares, yes.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, okay, so that was the direction. I want to commend you
on that because that is a 180-degree shift, from 12 to 18 months ago, as far
direction I wanted to take that in Mass Transit. And we as a Council want to
embrace the Low or No carbon footprint, when it comes to those buses. Now, I
can argue about electricity side, but that's a different conversation. So I want to
commend you on that.
Comes back to the funding now, $23 million. This is a big jump, but it's the
investment we need. I use the two $5 million points as a point of conversation
because we ne need the oversight and management to make this thing make sense,
and we didn't do it. I said we weren't going to do it, and we didn't do it, and that
bothers me a lot. I appreciate the fact that you stood firm on the tow truck
because that makes sense. That was a good financial call.
So, I am concerned about the management going forward because this is a huge
shift and it's going to take a lot of director-will to make this happen, function, and
I am concerned going forward. But I tell you what, Brenda, I really appreciate
your statement on Monday, because like I said, I almost tripped my head off when
I turned so quickly, because I looked at you when you made that comment. So,
I'm fully supportive of that going forward, but I'm concerned if we have the
management in place.
MS. CARREIRA: Mr. Richards, I agree with you, and that I understand what the
concern, because I wouldn't have come up with that idea without Sustainability
Partners. Because if we had to pay for all of it, that would be out the door. Okay,
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the other thing is, and that's one of reasons for the supplemental budgetary
request.
So when we talk about buses, so the question is, to look at this too. So we have
the money, we ask for grants, we ask for new things, we ask for diesel buses,
because in the meantime it will be a while before we get the electric.
MR. RICHARDS: And that I agree. I absolutely agree.
MS. CARREIRA: But then when you look at the money, and then this is
something that you need fully discuss with the Mayor and with Lee too, they are
our leaders, do we continue buying new diesels or do you ask for remanufactured
diesels that are less money? So we're not spending $600,000 on a new bus,
because knowing that four years from now, if it all works out, we're going get
electric. So that is something else. And that's why I would be discussing it with
the Mayor, too, of course before going forward.
But we've always been looking at new. But when you ask for used, which I'm
still okay with the ten minibuses. When it's used, then you've got repair and
maintenance. Hopefully with new ones, you have warranty. So just something I
bring up. Transparency, you know, and all that.
So, there's just a lot of things to consider. And even with the COVID, trying to
get driver-protection barriers. With the buses, as much as possible, even anything
new, we try actively through grants so that our local match is low. And while
we're actively applying, trying to get the new ones, we still do all the Low-No
grants. Anything that—with the Low-No grants, the State is the recipient, and
they prepare the whole grant and file it, but we give them information, and that's
what we'll continue to do.
MR. RICHARDS: So to answer your question about the diesel, I completely
agree with you. We're still going to need diesel buses in a transition phase.
And spring boarding after something that Mr. Chung said, two years ago probably
now—he's wondering what I'm going to say—when are we going to stop taking
used buses? Because they do come with problems, in my thoughts. But this is a
conversation for later, not right now, is that we identify what we need as far as
backup buses. Those are the diesel buses for the short-term, and maybe five
years, maybe ten years, I don't know. But those are our backup, because then
they can go where the fuel cell buses go or where the all-electric buses go. It
doesn't really matter, but it's part of the transition plan. So, I'm supportive of that
and that's a conversation for a later time.
So thank you, Brenda. Like I said, I am concerned. But Chair, I'm going to
yield. Thank you.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards.
Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Aloha, Administrator Carreira. Trixy,
good to see you. Thank you for all of your hard work.
You know, couple of budget cycles ago, my first budget hearing, we've identified
a lot of issues, discrepancies with the grant reporting. Not really satisfied, but
what I've heard, and so I'm just wondering if you elaborate a little bit about the
processes and protocols that you have in place to ensure proper management of
these funds. And I know that Director Sako has been involved to ensure that
we've got those fiscal controls in place. But again, we have a lot of potential
federal funding to go after, I just want to make sure we're not jeopardizing any of
those opportunities.
MS. CARREIRA: As far as with the grants and the grants monies, what we're
receiving and what we hope to receive, Trixy does—has been the one that took
over to do a lot of the grant work to get things done, to work with me. She is the
one that has to do all the reports to the feds, as to how much have we used or to
full reimbursement with the State. So Trixy does that, and that's a big help.
Now, as far as reports, what we've done, is I have a contract-hire that comes
in to help us on just the federal auditing reporting. I'm not sure how much longer
past June we could have him, but he's the one that's been auditing our revenue
and looking at—and we try to do—we do the ridership but all of those reports,
and he's getting it. So one of the reasons why I brought him up is I looked at
what happened in the past and knowing that we're having an audit. So he's a
huge help because he also works with the vendor to make sure that we're okay.
Now with the reporting, what we've done is I've actually looked at, talked with
my staff to see where we are; that we weren't correct, and we have corrected that.
Even with like the Shared Ride Program, Tiffany keeps talking to me. We now
have meetings with our Shared Ride taxis, to see what is the proper form.
Because what it's been unfortunately, is that looking at reports and saying,
"These aren't accurate," and we had to keep explaining to the State, "Well no,
we're looking at it," and it's not changing forms, changing templates. So, that's
what we've done.
So I'm good with the revenue miles. I'm good with the ridership. We're good
with what we tell the FTA, the DOT (Department of Transportation), on our
grants and our reporting. We have explained—and I have explained several times
is that our numbers were different because we were not counting it accurately, but
we are now. So that's what we're getting in line.
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The Shared Ride taxi was the last one that we were looking at. Because I would
talk to Tiffany and say, "Why are you doing all of this work," and realizing that
the template was wrong. And so, let's make the drivers are filling out correctly.
That's not their fault because they have to be trained. We offered more training;
and we just say, "You need to do this. This is the federal program." If we are not
accurate, that's how we dinged by the feds.
But also, we talked to DOT. We're in discussion with—we've had training.
Trixy went to training. Casey, Tiffany, and myself, in February of last year, of
the FTA auditors coming there and telling us this is the kind of stuff we see, and
this is how you can correct it, without ultimately telling us what to do. But that
was the big thing. So based on that, when I hired this contract hire, I gave
everything to him and say, "Read this. This is what they need, and work on this
project." And like I said, I don't know how much we could keep him. But that's
what I've had to do, go outside. Because no, our staff in here, we cannot do it,
just can't.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I mean you shared, "Trixy wears three hats."
MS. CARREIRA: She does.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So I'm concerned about her bandwidth and her—I mean,
I'm not doubting you. I mean clearly you've got superpowers to juggle so much,
but I don't think it's fair, and I just don't think it's sustainable.
MS. CARREIRA: Right. I agree.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. I have to say I'm a little bit disappointed
when the question came up around shovel-ready projects, To just say "bus
shelters,"that's not enough. I mean our first budget cycle we talked about the
desire and need to have more shelters and signage, so people know where to sign.
What kind of support do you need to really get serious around shovel-ready
projects? I mean, you have a beautiful Mass Transit Plan. It's begging to be
implemented.
I mean, I just feel like there needs to be more acting with urgency. Or maybe you
are acting, but I think you've got so many things that you're working on, the
problem is you probably need to scale that back and really prioritize so that we
can see some actual successes gaining under your belt. So what kind of support
do you need? We don't have a lot of time to start putting together a list of
projects, so really counting on you to elevate what's needed.
MS. CARREIRA: You know, with—okay, one, would be trying to get the
supplemental positions. Two—even like with the hubs, helping to see land or
agreements, where to place the hubs. Why we have gotten pass the Pahoa hub
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would have been done a lot more is—what I would ask in the future when we ask
for hubs, is maybe we need to reach out more to other people. Because we got
ready, we were ready some. Then all of a sudden, all these extra additional sites
come in versus how come we didn't have that from the beginning. So it's really
hard. We have this. There's sites. Then we're ready to do it. Then they come up
with additional sites, and then it caused even more of a delay.
So maybe it's going to be with me sitting down with the Mayor and with my
Managing Director and say, "Okay, what's the priority?" Because then—and in
the meantime, we have our grant proposals. Trying to do that. It's a lot, and it's
being pulled in each direction. I don't know how to help other than to get more
people, and for me to sit down and really get direction, which they're willing to
give. Nothing against the Mayor's office—and say what you would like me to do.
Because it seems like they want everything, but I can't do it all.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: We're seeing that.
MS. CARREIRA: I can't.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: You really need to prioritize. I mean, the Pahoa thing, this
continuous stalling. I mean, Brenda, you've got to push. You've got to keep
Matt and I on the loop on things. We shouldn't be pinging you all the time for
information. You know that we are conduits to our community. Stay in touch.
Got to be proactive about giving us that information. And if there are barriers or
obstacles, we need to know so we can help clear the path.
So Pahoa bus hub, there's a lot of work happening. Can you just quickly provide
us with an update? I know that you're engaging Planning, and Public Works, and
the Mayor's Office is involved. You know, we've identified new sites through
and EIS (Environmental Income Statement). There's a lot happening. Why isn't
this being communicated? I mean, we get calls from community, right? Here's
the thing, right, last administration said they were going to be making sure that
there was forward movement, and we would get some information. Didn't
happen.
Communication goes out about Kona bus hub meetings, which I think is great.
We all knew that was the plan. However, because no communication was given
around status of the Pahoa hub, there was this perception in community that
money was being taken from Pahoa, which is not the case. But that perception is
out there because of the lack of communication.
So here's your chance, Administrator,please clear up for the record what is
happening with Pahoa, and what are ways in which you're going to stay in touch
with members of the various districts to make sure we are getting accurate and
timely information out into our community?
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MS. CARREIRA: One, with the Pahoa hub; the next step is DPW (Department of
Public Works) doing the environmental assessment. They already have their the
people that are going to work with them, and they would do the assessment. And
yeah, and that's a different capitalI mean, we have in the capital funds funding
for the hubs. And then the Kona hub is something else. We had one virtual
meeting, but we'll have to have two. But it's not taking away money from one to
another. And the only thing I could actually do would be to email you once those
are completed.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So what's the timeframe for that? Because you're
involved in this, correct? You're helping to drive and design it?
MS. CARREIRA: No, no, no.
MS. LEE LOY: Or is you've passed it off to Public Works?
MS. CARREIRA: It will be
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Just trying to understand here.
MS. CARREIRA: Yeah no, what it is , I have the scope of work, We're
doing it, then I pass it off to DPW and they take over. Then they have to
complete the assessment and then give back the results, you know, the actual
report. And then we have to look at that again, and go in front of—with the
Mayor, with Deanna—everything. Look through all the sites and stuff like that,
with Lee. And when that is done, then make a determination.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: With the EIS (Environmental Impact Statement), would
sort of—would make that determination based on data?
MS. CARREIRA: Yes.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah?
MS. CARREIRA: Yes.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I mean, we don't want political decisions made here.
MS. CARREIRA: Oh, no, no.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: We want data-driven transparent decisions and community
involvement in this. So I'm sorry, again, is this now in DPW's hands?
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MS. CARREIRA: They have parts of it. Then I just have one. Well, I have to
send over what Hamana Ventura made, as to when he—what I told him is, you
know, with these additional sites, is I'm not going to put out any kind of money
for an assessment on property that the landowner doesn't want to sell. So that
was his part, to contact all the additional sites that came up, which were many.
And then, he gave a report. Then we can say these sites are not going to be up.
We're not going to do it because the owners don't want to, or they're not
interested. That's what he—his main thing is property management, yeah. And
then remove those. And then, yeah.
But Ikaika guys stand ready because theyI even met with the people that he's
going to work with, the private people. We've already met.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, Brenda, keep us posted. You know, there's short
funds with the GET. We are anticipating a lot more, but because of COVID,
we've seen a dip. And so now more than ever, we have to be prepared to go after
grant funding, but again, wanting to make sure you have those controls,
procedures in place; your staff is trained up to provide you accurate, consistent
information.
I would like to see a list from you about all the grants that you have right now that
you're managing, and what you're anticipating to go after, right now with our
designation as rural, but potentially with that urban designation. It's not really
clear because of how things have sort of moved in the budget, you know, with
everything being moved under GET fund. But I think that would really be helpful
to know. Just the scale, the magnitude of the federal funding that you're trying to
leverage. Because it's not going to you know, we're not going to implement the
Master Plan on GET alone, it's going to require outside sources.
MS. CARREIRA: Oh, absolutely. And then on the urban, I would just have to
ask for more information because we never were—but I'd probably have to talk to
DOT on the FTA because I don't know what kind of funding. Because whether
we're going take away from Honolulu, and Maui has now. If we become urban, I
don't know that. That's something that we have to check with the FTA.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah, and just one final thing, as Council Member
Lee Loy pointed out during GIA (grant in aid) sorry, Chair,just a little latitude
to finish this last thing, thank you. When we were chatting with a number of
nonprofits in the community and they talked about transportation being a barrier, I
see a lot of room to collaborate. I see the buses on the road. They're not always
full. Is this an opportunity to help transport resources to various communities
around the island that are often underserved? I think so. And I think it's
important for us to connect you with those nonprofits to explore that. So just
hope you're going to keep an open mind on that one. Because you have buses
that are driving around the island, if they're not—and transporting people, they
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certainly should be transporting resources that are often not getting to the most
vulnerable and disenfranchised population. Thank you, Chair. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Has anybody not spoken yet?
Okay, Sue. Let's go back to Sue then.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Matt. I hear you guys are overwhelmed. I think my
concern is you want to throw people at the problem. But in your budget, the
people that you want are clerical or administrative individuals, when I actually
think a data analyst or a planner would be more helpful to collect the data,
extrapolate the information, what it cost per ride per different service, and then
actually come up with more concrete. I'm loving it, because Council Member
Kimball just hit her light, she knows where I'm going with this. I'm not happy
with this budget, actually I really want to tear it out. This budget in front of us
that you have proposed is not going to work. We're going fail our community.
I understand the Master Plan, and I understand it was written to roll out in a
perfect situation. We saw a hurdle, but we're still presenting information in a
manner from a system that was broke. I really want you guys to go back and try
again, because throwing people at the problem could work if it's the right people.
And what Ms. Kierkiewicz is talking about is leveraging the networks that are out
there, and we really got to tap into that resource, about the people who need these
rides. And it's not reflected. But it's also not reflected because communication
has been challenging. And this is this circular conversation that I know
personally, I've been having for five years with this department.
We've got to get better. Our community relies on this. And if we want to realize
some real uplift in community, you guys are the tip of the spear on this one. They
need this help, whether it's to get to work, whether it's to school, whether it's for
transporting resources, or getting to doctor appointments. And we've talk about
wealth in community, it's not about dollars sometimes. It's just about getting to
an appointment, to relieve them, to help them get to health services, to get to a hot
meal.
Director, I'm going to say go back and try again. I want to see something else in
May. And as you guys request these positions, maybe you guys should rethink
about people to fill out forms, and really look at the information or do some
community outreach around that. I'm really trying to help. I know it doesn't feel
that way, but I really am trying to help. We see a lot of need in community
around transportation. I'm going to let Ms. Kimball go. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Ms. Kimball, go ahead.
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MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. And thank you, Sue, for putting into words what
was rummaging around in my brain, which is I think that the next step, at least as
far as the positions are concerned, is a needs assessment and then even PDs
(position descriptions). I'm willing to support funding for these additional
positions because there's no—one thing that a municipality can do to improve
economic outcomes that doesn't have a greater return on investment, the investing
in Mass Transit. That's just the bottom-line, so I'm willing to invest in it. But
what I'm hearing you need and what the position description—or the positions
vaguely are described as right now, there's not quite the right lineup, I think.
And so, we've talked about the needs assessment needed to be done in the other
departments. I'm willing to believe that the issue here is a people problem, but
I'm not sure that a deputy, or a clerk, data analyst,perhaps somebody that's called
a control officer, somebody that's developing standard operating proceduresI'd
have to know a little bit more, that's why the need for a needs assessment. But
then I'd want to see from you guys a position description. Something that we
could actually get behind, a communication that Council Member Kierkiewicz
brought up. And I think that there's a position here that does make sense, but the
way it's described right now is not where we need to be. So hopefully we can
work together on that. Thanks, Chair. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball.
MS. CARREIRA: If I could just respond to Ms. Kimball?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go ahead, Director.
MS. CARREIRA: I believe we have been meeting transit needs of the
community. I'm not meant to be argumentative or anything like that, because
I don't want it to try and seem that we're not listening. I get calls from people
in the community. I get calls from the Pahoa Hub. You know, and I apologize
if I didn't send an email, but when I've been asked things, I do. Because again,
because I've got to prioritize too what I do.
So I understand your questions about what you need. Believe me, we went back
and forth about this deputy and stuff. I do need a deputy, and I do need for the
maintenance a parts person; and thank you for bringing up a data analyst, okay, so
that may be. But I—and I'm just going to say, I don't want to give up something
to bring in somebody else, because we probably do need a data analyst. We
didn't ask for everything because, you know, part of it is I don't even know if
we're going to get it because of the budget, but too, still want to ask for it.
So with deputies, and I'm not as big as the other departments, but there's very few
departments that don't have deputies, okay, and one is mine, as well as Aging and
stuff, which means that every decision or policy-making decision, everything with
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personnel everything is me. So I don't want to give up and say, "Oh, no I don't
need a deputy, or we just need a data analyst." We need all three probably, and
I'm sure the other departments need them, too. But I wasn't going to not ask,
okay.
So I apologize, you know, with the communication, but I always say I try to
respond whenever I'm asked. But again, it's with kind of emails that you guys
have, is trying to respond the best. But I've heard about communication. And I
believe that this department, we've tried to communicate as much as possible, and
we have improved since the past.
But as far as the budget, and I appreciate Ms. Lee Loy talking about it, we can
relook at it. And as far as positions, we are actively, actually, working with HR
(Human Resources). We redid—we reorganized in the end of 2019. We redid
position descriptions. We continue to work with Human Resources now because
we're trying to fix a broken system, including our current positions, before being
able to move forward. So, HR has been wonderful.
So please don't think that we don't try. That's part of the things in between the
other jobs we're trying to do. Because I know how important position
descriptions and job descriptions and pouring over to make sure we get that right.
So that we know, and we continue to move it. I know they're busy too, HR. So,
we are really trying. Because we came in, look at what we thought was good, and
now you kind of work with it and say, "Hey, maybe we need something else," or
whatever. So I don't want you to think that we aren't thing about it. But I
appreciate the fact that you're asking, making those suggestions and talking about
the budget, so thank you. I really appreciate that. I do.
But we're much—we're better than what we were. But I like said, we're going to
get better and better. And like I said, I've got to be able to ask for help, but then
determine, oh what kind of help I should be asking for, you know, not asking for
something stupid or, you know, which I'm sure you'll tell me it's not stupid. You
know what I mean? But I appreciate that. And like I said, I will seek definitely
direction from Mayor Roth and Managing Director, my boss Lee Lord, who have
open ears, and want to continue with communication. I will agree.
And I just wanted to say, and then I will talk to Corporation Counsel about it—the
communication too, is after this last thing when I asked for letter of support, and
told me I was possibly violating Sunshine Law, I will kind of say I'm asking for
more guidance from Corporation Counsel, because now I'm to the point, and I'm
just ending everything, to Sue and then ask her to do it? I'd like to send to
everybody, so everybody gets the stuff, but I don't want to get into trouble or
being on the front page for violating the Sunshine Law or going in front of Ethics.
So, I'm going to help on that. And if guys can give me guidance on what I can or
cannot say. I hate just asking one person. I rather just tell everybody, but I'm
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holding off on that because, you know, it might not be the right thing, and I don't
want to do anything bad or violative. Thank you.
MS. KIMBALL: Oh, thank you, Chair. I appreciate everything you're saying.
Let's not get caught upon the semantics of the job title. But I hope that you
understand my request here, which is to spend a little time just looking at—okay,
what are the things that we need? If it's your job and you need another person,
okay, well just express that to us, and then let's develop the position description.
I don't care what the hell we call it, as long as they're doing the right things that
you actually need as part of your daily operations to address some of these things.
There are clearly holes identified today, and so if those holes are plugged by
somebody in the right position, whatever the title is, let's go ahead with that.
So the next time we have a conversation, we have a clear guideline of what
are some of the gaps, what a position description might be to match that, or those,
maybe there's more than one position description. For me, that's what I'm going
to need.
MS. CARREIRA: Okay.
MS. KIMBALL: And I'm just telling you that. As far as the Sunshine Law, we
can't advise you on that.
MS. CARREIRA: Oh, yeah. That's right. That will be violative.
MS. KIMBALL: That would not be good. But I hope that we can find a way,
especially during Legislative Session, to be able to act and communicate more
quickly when it comes to supporting our departments, when stuff comes before
the Legislature working on it. That's all I can say.
MS. CARREIRA: Thank you. And then with the budget too, I'm sure I will talk
to the master, Deanna Sako, to look over the budget, and with Trixy about these.
Okay, budget request is based on the current expenditures with plans for
improvement. So Ms. Lee Loy, what you're asking is, well, separate the different
programs too, bringing before you a budget that you believe would work withI
mean, I'm sorry would better represent what we really need?
MS. LEE LOY: Chair, if I may?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. I'm trying to get to a place of numbers, right? And
so we have 400,000 riding the bus, what is that cost per rider? We have 3,000
doing paratransit, what is that cost? And if you average it, fine, explain it to us.
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But if you're just taking total cost and dividing by riders, and we come that's
not an accurate reflection, right? That's not good math.
MS. CARREIRA: Yeah.
MS. LEE LOY: That's not good math. And then if you use that same rationale
and formula and carry it forward, that's where we're actually set up for failure,
because the math was wrong to begin with.
MS. CARREIRA: Yeah.
MS. LEE LOY: You know, I've got to say this, I come off hard because I see the
issue and I'd like to just tear it up. But this rumble is what I actually really
appreciate, because what Ms. Kimball mentioned about the positions, sometimes
you guys are talking about it, "Yes this is what we need, this is what we need,"
but were that actually removed lens, because we can say, "You know what, it
sounds like paperwork, but it's more than that,"right? And so don't be afraid to
bounce it off of us, right? Because I think Ms. Kimball is right, it's a position
description, not so much Clerical I, Clerical 11. But I do, I think that's what I
would rather see because then we can take that information and carry that same
rationale forward. And whatever the number is, it is. We would rather know then
base our decisions on inaccurate information. I think that fails everybody
miserably. So Chair, thank you for letting me respond. But that's what I would
like to see.
MS. CARREIRA: Thank you.
MS. LEE LOY: You know, the other program highlights, you know, it's all there.
It's just in that program measurables part.
MS. CARREIRA: Thank you.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Chung, you
want to add anything in the conversation? I'll take your silence as a no. Okay, no
further questions from Kona?
Okay, I've got a few follow-up questions. I'll start with your guy's revenue, the
GE fund revenue, the General Excise Tax funds, it's either for you or Deanna,
but I see our Fiscal Year 2019-20, our revenue was $37,948,000; estimate for
2021-22 is $37,500,000. I don't quite know what to think about that, because
given the state of the economy and how much GE taxes have been down, we're
only showing a decrease about$400,000. But if that's the revenue we're basing
the GE tax fund on, I want to make sure that we're balancing out.
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(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: Yeah, we've done extensive calculations on this. You might
remember in 1920, the first half of the year or part of that year we were still
on the quarter percent, so it took us till this year to be all the way on that
half-percent, so we've looked at that. So if we were—had been on the full
half-percent for the entire fiscal year, the expectation was that we would have
actually brought in $50 million. So, we've actually reduced that by 25 percent.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so that takes into account the raise in
the tax rate as well the decrease in the economy?
MS. SAKO: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. And one more question,
as well. The Bikeway Fund, so I think these both play in the Mass Transit, is that
correct?
MS. SAKO: Bikeway is actually under Parks and Recreation.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Bikeway is under Parks and Recreation?
MS. SAKO: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I'm going to leave that alone then.
MS. SAKO: Okay.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you for that. And then, you
know,just for everybody, Mass Transit, you're funded by both grant revenue, a
lot of grant revenue, but also almost in full amount by the GE Tax Fund, correct?
Okay, because I saw something, flipping through the books, your Mass Transit
binder sheet here is tiny, if you look at your budget, as to compare to other
departments. But then within the Mass Transit GE Tax Fund we find your entire
budget, correct?
MS. CARREIRA: Yes, sir.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You cut your overtime by the two-thirds,
thank you; and you increased your expenses from 2019-20 to 2021-22, within this
fund of course, by about$9 million. Some questions I had for you around that.
You have in here the PATH (People's Advocacy for Trails Hawaii) for the
Bikeshare Program, what is that?
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MS. CARREIRA: Actually, it's also a part of the of the Master Plan. But
with Bikeshare, we give them funding of$120,000,just like year, so we are
proposing the same thing this year. They have been great about letting us know
what they're doing. They have actually increased the bikes around. Because we
want to—it's part of the partnership, if you will, to get people out there, get them
biking. And we were able this past year to actually go into adding more into Hilo.
But that they administer it, but we just give some funds. I don't believe we're
funding them for everything, right? But it's $120,000 that we stayed the same.
We're asking for the same.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And I know this isn't in your
department, but within the Bikeway Fund, you get another $155,000 for the Hilo
Bayfront Bike Path. So how are we separating those two, and why are they
broken down like that? Because we're pulling from two separate funds, one
Mass Transit does covers and one Parks and Recreation covers. We're
subsidizing from both agencies, or are we doing double-work?
MS. SAKO: Well, the Bikeway Fund is con not controlled—managed by the
Department of Parks and Recreation, but the GE Fund is always allowed to be
spent on all types of transportation including bikeways. So the Bikeway Fund as
you might imagine is relatively a very small fund, so it usually cannot
accommodate all of the different activities related to bikes and bikeways bike
programs and bikeways.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Without Parks and Recreation being here, I
did see they had aI mean they rolled over from last year, correct? They didn't
spend all their funds?
MS. SAKO: For Bikeway Fund?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, for Bikeway Fund.
MS. SAKO: I'm sorry. There's usually there has been a fund balance that's
been built up, but they typically spent everything they budget in any given fiscal
year.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So we're not doubling up? Well,
actually we kind of are doubling up as far as our expenses to this Bikeway
Proj ect?
MS. SAKO: We're not doubling up. I mean together it makes the total of the
project. And I should go grab my binder, but—so you asked about which one?
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So within the GE Tax Fund, under
account 115.
MS. SAKO: Right, the Path for Bike Share Program, right?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, Path for Bike Share Program.
MS. SAKO: But then in the Bikeway Fund, which was the line item?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And on the Bikeway Fund, you get an
account, High School Education Program; under 115, you get Hilo Bayfront Bike
Path for $155,000.
MS. SAKO: Yeah, for the construction.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Same path?
MS. SAKO: I'm not sure. Oh, I'm sorry, Trixy reminded me, this is not—PATH
(Peoples Advocacy for Trails Hawaii) is the vendor for the Bikeway Program.
PATH and Trails Hawaii, I'm sorry.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay thank you.
MS. SAKO: Sorry, I was just like
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So it's an acronym?
MS. SAKO: Yes, it's an acronym.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
MS. SAKO: My bad. I wasn't fast enough today. Thank you, Trixy.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Okay, that helps.
MS. SAKO: I wasn't fast enough today. Thank you, Trixy.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Before you get up, Hawaii County
self-insured, but I've seen a number of departments insurance pop up. So for
GET (General Excise Tax) Mass Transit, they have an OCE (Other Current
Expenses), you have $500,000 expense for insurance?
MS. SAKO: Yes, for the buses.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So being self-insured, we're self-insuring
the buses
MS. SAKO: Or some things.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Auto insurance, that kind of thing, or
what?
MS. SAKO: So our fleet vehicles are self-insured, like being our automobiles.
But things like buses, or like our helicopter, we pay for insurance for those
high-ticket items.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay, so we do carry insurance for
certain things, and the other ones are self-insured?
MS. SAKO: Yes, as well as building and flood insurance. Especially for things
where we've gotten FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) money in
the past, then we're mandated to carry insurance on it now. Self-insurance isn't
an option in those cases.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It makes sense. I just was—it was catching
me, and once you took it apart, it was
MS. SAKO: Right. And then, you know, we have things like malpractice
insurance for our MICT (Mobile Intensive Care Technicians)personnel, and Fire,
and things like that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay, thank you.
MS. SAKO: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And then we talked about bus tow truck.
It's in your budget this coming year yeah, under Mass Transit equipment? So we
are going to go out for the tow truck?
MS. CARREIRA: We put that in with the possibility that if we do need to, but
we Iwe didn't want not to put it in, in case—once—if we had 20 more vehicles
coming in. You know, it gives us—it allows us the option. I'm not saying we're
going exercise it, but we wanted to keep it in there. We may not have to order it.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, you put in here. I mean, if you get
okay to the budget, I would say go ahead and do it, or else we can take it out. If
you don't need it, I'd like to know. That's $400,000.
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MS. GROANING: The way I did the budget was this was part of the Master
Plan, right? We were always told "You should still use the Master Plan as the
guideline." So we're still getting pushed to get it. Like she said, if we get 20, 30
more buses, and we're actually doing still some rescues, it would actually be
conducive to that. But we are not—it's not that we took money or anything, we
basically took it away from like the bus replacement. But should Brenda decide,
you know, the tow truck is not a smart buy right now, we can actually put that
money towards the buses. It gives us that leeway. Does that make sense?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. You cut your travel conference
substantially, too.
MS. CARREIRA: Yes, because actually we're you know, we're doing more
virtual, and with the COVID, we rarely travel, and rightfully so. So yeah, we took
that out.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Supplemental request-wise, how many
positions did you ask for?
MS. CARREIRA: Two.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Two positions. And DEM's (Department
of Environmental Management is coming up later today. I think they asked for
nine or ten positions.
MS. CARREIRA: Well,part of it was, you know,we had thought about the
Secretary L But what happened is we are trying to reallocate, through HR, our
Mass Transit Assistant into the secretary position, because we're trying to see
what things we have now that we could reallocate, because if not, we would have
added that. But that's why I didn't put it in.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Did you talk to the Mayor about that?
MS. CARREIRA: About what?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Getting more positions.
MS. CARREIRA: No. I mean, as far as
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Increasing your staffing.
MS. CARREIRA: I told him we only told him we needed more positions. I
didn't, right, before coming here go and talk to him again about it, but yeah. The
supplemental request, it's the same one we did even last year.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MS. CARREIRA: Oh, I'm sorry. It is, right? Without the secretary. Last year
we had three. This year we took out the secretary.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So he's aware?
MS. CARREIRA: As far as—he isn't with the specifics, about what we're trying
to do with HR, because we haven't gotten approval yet to even do that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MS. CARREIRA: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo for doing the Low-No grants. I
think that's good. That was great, actually. Grant-wise for new bus, you got a lot
of grant money in there. And you have how many new buses coming?
MS. CARREIRA: Four, but hopefully eight by the end of—you know, adding
more, but the other four that we're waiting for, would be hopefully by the end of
the year, but maybe not because I expected the ten extra ones. It takes about a
year to get the—so we're already going into same fiscal year next fiscal but won't
be by the end of this year.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Are you seeing any slowdowns due to
COVID?
MS. CARREIRA: Oh, yes. I mean,just a lot of manufacturing companies had
furloughed a lot of people. So they're coming back. They are working. But what
had happened too, is for maintenance and stuff. The parts were delayed because
the people weren't working, so that caused a bit of a delay. But they've been
going back to work. But just everywhere, you know, United States and others,
just bus manufacturing was low, and they're trying to get back up again.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And I've heard that. I mean,just from
different people, different fields, even mini excavators.
MS. CARREIRA: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The ones coming in now that's it, and you
won't see any more until next year.
MS. CARREIRA: Yeah.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Not in field, but I mean it's the same idea,
equipment is just not coming in like it did. There's delays, okay. So there's
going to be delays.
MS. CARREIRA: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Is there a limit on funding you can use per
year from GE?
MS. GROANING: Like you guys mentioned in the beginning of these budget
reviews, we get the instructions from budget to stay within status quo, and then
we just work with numbers we got. And then they do the adjustment after our
first submittal, and then that's what you guys see.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So we get—we have $37 million in
revenue from GE, and your guy's budget, which is almost based completely on
GE tax, comes out at$18,900.
MS. GROANING: That's just the S&W (Salaries and Wages), OCE(Other
Current Expenses), and equipment. That doesn't include the capital, or the
pensions, and the miscellaneous cost, all of that stuff that we have to put in place.
That comes out of GE, as well.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I got you. Sorry. Deanna, when
will we have accurate number for what our GE revenue is? Or do we have that
already?
MS. SAKO: I'm not sure what you mean when you say accurate, because all of
the revenue numbers in the budget are projections; because, you know, we're
trying to guess what people are going to spend for the next fiscal year and how
much we're going to collect. But the State was behind. They've caught up a little
bit. So we're kind of on track with the budget for this year, with six months of
data. Maybe tracking a little bit ahead but not much. So we think our estimates
for next year are still good, but we'll continue to look at them. But the State is
usually several months behind on reporting that data, so it makes it challenging,
you know, to get it more accurate than that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And the reason I'm asking is that the
information that we are given is in—actual for 2019-20, budgeted for this fiscal
year, and then estimate of what's coming. So all we have in front of us is
estimates. But that's our revenue. On that revenue basis, what we look at as far
as budgeting. That's the basis of my question.
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MS. SAKO: Right. So I'm telling you that estimate is based on the most accurate
information we have as of right now. But the State is only six month—has only
reported the first six months of the fiscal year.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And is thereI mean, say there was
$40 million, can Brenda increase her budget, or is there a cap for what she can
do?
MS. SAKO: No. I mean, they only submitted those two supplemental budget
requests for the positions, so we'll be meeting with her soon to discuss more
about what she may be needing.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then, Transfer to Capital
Projects Fund from GET, estimated at$9.5 million. What is that for, is that just
the normal?
MS. SAKO: For the Mass Transit projects, like the bus shelters, spoke-and-hubs,
whatever the right terminology is, Park and Ride, as well as other road projects as
may be needed.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You know,when we see these kind of
transfers, this is forI mean, this is real dollars?
MS. SAKO: Yes, it is.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And so these are projects that have been,
I'm guessing then approved, and we're allotting them funds towards use.
MS. SAKO: They're in the capital budget, and we're allotting as needed.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: When we the capital projects list a wish
list, and that's the general term I keep hearing, but we do have these transfers of
real dollars to that fund. So when we see this, I wouldn't say it's overly clear of
which projects are actually being approved within that list.
MS. SAKO: So originally it started out trying to match up the projects with the
Master Plan. I think they're a little bit behind on that. So we're still trying to
match it up with their Master Plan.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then, coming back to our
Charter—because we've talked about this and we've hit on a few times now, the
CIP list. Which list, realistic, unrealistic, you know, for millions of dollars we
don't have that kind of funds. That's what it comes down to usually, or we don't
have the manpower to get it done, whatever happens.
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MS. SAKO: Right.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But I was reading through Charter
language, and as to the capital budget, you know, the message shall include a list
of pending and proposed improvements together with Mayor's comments and it
shall itemize and explain each capital improvement project has to be undertaken
within the ensuing fiscal year and showing the estimated cost of each
improvement and the pending and proposed method of financing. So to me that
language is meaning we need to know what's coming. And I go back to that CIP
list, it's just not—it's not clear what we're actually going to do.
MS. SAKO: So again, it also says that Planning is the one preparing the capital
budget.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Well, either way. Okay, so you're saying,
I should give Planning a hard time.
MS. SAKO: Well, we can work them to the best of our ability. But yes, it's
like—you know, but we do have money sitting there. So when their bridges need
repair and things like that—you know, we talked about, like the temporary bridge
that bond money can't buy. But yes, General Excise Tax fund can pay for that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay, thank you. You know,
actually, Deannasorry, I get a follow-up for you, as well. Should we be looking
at a standard, when it comes to electricity cost? Because Brenda's cost didn't go
up by much, but I saw other departments going up by 10, 15 percent. And it
seems pretty standard across the board, but Brenda's really stayed within about—
I'll
boutI'll say even like half a percent increase. It was small, hers.
MS. SAKO: She also has newer facility. But generally yes, we try to look at—
let's
tlet's say if everybody was exactly within their budget, then—and if we find
out from HELCO (Hawai`i Electric Light Company) the rates are going up
10 percent, I'm just making up numbers, you know, then we would increase
everybody 10 percent.
But we also have to look at the actuals that were spent for like the previous year,
so it depends how close they were to budget. So some departments have been
really close and almost like too tight, so they may have increased more to make
sure they have enough money to pay their bills for the coming year. But then
other ones may have increased a little bit too much, so they didn't actually need
an increase, even if they said there was going to be a rate increase.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so the standard is based on what
happened last year, but looking at what can
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MS. SAKO: It was actual consumption, and then also, you know, rates. If we're
aware that rates are going up, we try to take that into account.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. Brenda, we've
talked about it in the past Kona having a facility, I've had other departments ask
me for the same thing. It may be worthwhile to have a conversation about having
a—maybe a multi jurisdiction facility over there, you know, or a multi
multi-department juris jurisdiction is not that word—multi-department
facility: DPW, Mass Transit, everyone is needing facility upgrades in Kona, or a
facility to call home in Kona, and nobody has one. So that may be something to
think about as you discuss that further.
MS. CARREIRA: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Social media presence, how are you guys
doing with social media or information output? Some departments have a person
of, you know, or information officer, do you guys have anybody like that?
MS. CARREIRA: No.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Can anybody cross as that? I know
you're overwhelmed already, but is it possible?
MS. CARREIRA: Well, I guess what—well actually—it's not actually one
person, but there's Tiffany, Betty. They cannot all do it on their own. They kind
of let us know.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You don't have to answer now.
MS. CARREIRA: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just think about. I know Cyrus Johansen
from the Mayor's Office has been putting out the DPW roadwork schedule.
Although I would expect that to come from DPW, he's been doing the output for
that. Don't ask me why. But maybe he can help out with pushing information out
for you guys, as well, you know, bus route closures, or outcoming projects, you
know, Pahoa bus, or whatever it may be.
MS. CARREIRA: Well, what happens to—with Cyrus, and he's been very good
about—because he gets things from DPW. He sends it to us because I had
requested it. We put things out on our website. We get information from, yeah
DPW. We get—even within DPW, like Neal Azevedo. And then we have the
texts and stuff for road closures. So we have basically we're like, we suck up
all the information and send it out. But sorry, we don't have one person. I never
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even thought about trying to get somebody to tell you the truth. It definitely
wasn't on my radar.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Civil Defense talked about it this morning,
they have Everbridge, to let people know what's going on.
MS. CARREIRA: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But they also have started doing social
media, and Twitter, and Instagram. It's helpful. People are on it. I mean, it's
2021; that's where everybody's head at. Something to think about.
MS. CARREIRA: Okay.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And then I just want to say thank you for
following the process that's required for the hub in Pahoa. I'm not sure how it
started or where it went to, but there is a process we have to follow in
government; and in that case, I couldn't tell you what that process was, because if
we had taken on the site that was initially going to be used with no EA
(Environmental Assessment) and never having talks with the neighbors, we could
have gotten into a lot of trouble for that. So thank you for following the correct
procedure. Especially when it comes to government spending, it's important. So
I appreciate you for doing that.
MS. CARREIRA: Sorry, I cannot take kudos for that because we actually work
together with Jimmy from Department of Public Works. I've had to ask they've
been great about helping, so it was really teamwork. But thanks for thanking me,
but yeah. I needed to be educated myself.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You're kind of like the chief. He said,
"Don't give me compliments. I only take the criticism, okay."
MS. CARREIRA: Sorry, I—yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, that's all the questions I had. You
know, I appreciate what you guys do. I've never seen a municipality fully cover
their expenses with ridership fees. I mean for any Mass Transit Agency to cover
yourself and to be sustainable, I think is almost—you never going to achieve that.
I think Oahu was what? Twenty-six percent sustainable were covered by their
own fees?
MS. CARREIRA: Okay, we're not.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We're what, 17 was it? Or is 17 percent, is
that right, or am I flip-flopped on the numbering?
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MS. CARREIRA: I'm sorry, Trixy—sorry she's the number's person. I, yeah
you know, basically yeah, we don't make money off of this. You know, it's a
service that people need, and we do what we can. The GET has just been great
for us, and I know it sunsets at a certain time. But we wouldn't have been able to
do a lot without the GET, that's why I thank all the people. Everybody, because
we're using taxpayers, the people's money. That's how we're able to do this
and all the federal grants.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's our responsibility as a government
to provide the service; and Mr. Chung touched on that yesterday, we're service
providers. And based on public tax dollars, and that's what you're doing. And
this GE revenue increase is nice to have as a government, but it's also a fairly
regressive tax on the community, so we need to use it to the utmost. I appreciate
your time today.
MS. CARREIRA: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I don't see any further questions. And
we're just going to go in recess. I talked to Parks and Rec.
MR. CHUNG: Are you going to add something, Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: No. I just wanted to know if I could just have a little latitude?
Deanna, is Lee Lord going to be here this afternoon? If I could just again have
some latitude? I wanted to ask Mr. Lee Lord a question relating, I guess, to some
budget things, not to Mass Transit. So if he could come and—all of five minutes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Or right now?
MR. CHUNG: Well, after the break.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so when we reconvene?
MR. CHUNG: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so we're going to reconvene at 1:30,
and Mr. Chung has requested Mr. Lee Lord's presence.
MR. CHUNG: Or if the Mayor is around. Is the Mayor around? Okay, thanks.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung. So we'll
reconvene at 1:30. Thank you, Mass Transit for being to answer our
questions, and Deanna as well. And there's a request for Mr. Lee Lord to be
here for that—the beginning. Let's just put him right at the beginning then,
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Mr. Chung? You want—? Okay, so five, ten minutes for Mr. Lee Lord, and
Mr. Chung to discuss business. We'll see you here at 1:30. Thank you.
Recess: At 12:51 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 1:37 p.m.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Aloha and welcome back, we're out of
recess. We're going take Mr. Chung's request, an informational brief from
Mr. Lee Lord.
(Note: At this time, Managing Director Lee Lord came forward to address
the members of the Committee.)
Informational CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go ahead, Mr. Chung.
Briefing Re ag rding
COVID Testing MR. CHUNG: Yeah, thank you very much for the latitude. Good afternoon, Lee.
at Airports: You know, I came here this morning two minutes before the 9:00 o'clock
meeting, so didn't have a chance to go upstairs to my office. But when I got there
during one of the breaks, there were a lot of phone messages I received—don't
ask me why they came to me, I'm assuming they went to others as well
regarding the Kona Airport situation. This is kind of piggybacking on what
Ms. Villegas had brought up earlier; I don't know if you were in the room. But
I'm hearing that it's you know what, I didn't see it with my own eyes; but from
what I could tell, it's pure chaos over there.
My further understanding is that Premier Medical, who was contractedI don't
know if they were contracted with the County. I don't know what the precise
arrangement is. But Premier Medical, who was doing both the community
testing and the airport testingI don't know if this is true too, that's why I want
some clarification from the administration—have now been taken off the detail,
and now there's less workers who are doing the job there. Maybe if you could let
us know what's going on, because it seems to kind of coincide with this report of
a lot of chaos going on at the Kona Airport.
MR. LORD: Okay.
MR. CHUNG: Maybe even Hilo Airport, too. I don't know.
MR. LORD: This is Lee Lord, Managing Director. I, of course, was in these
meetings all day Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday.
MR. CHUNG: Right.
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MR. LORD: I've just returned from being out sick for ten days, on Monday, so
I've had very few snippets of the briefings that have happened. Our Executive
Assistant Steven Bader has been working closely with Civil Defense, and
Talmadge, and Barry on this. So truly, I the agreements, where Premier
Medical, as you were stating, was doing airport testing and community testing.
It's my understanding they're going to continue to do the community testing.
They will no longer be doing the airport testing. There was an agreement
between them and a private funder to fund the airport testing. We will now be
paying for the airport testing, and it's another vendor. The changeover was
supposed to happen, and there were different flights coming in last night, and the
vendor that won the contract was telling us that they could do the transition, no
problem.
So clearly, there was some issue with transition. But the snippet that I heard
today was, as of today they would be on board and the testing would be
happening at the percentage that we were asking them to do.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, that's good. Good to know. And the next question as it
relates to the budget, we have to have a budget nexus here, do we owe Premier
Medical any money?
MR. LORD: No, any money that was being paid for the airport testing was being
paid by somebody else.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. So the County does not owe Premier Medical any money?
MR. LORD: Correct.
MR. CHUNG: Perfect. That's all I wanted to know. I don't know if
Ms. Villegas wants to chime, or even Ms. or whoever. Thank you.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yes,please.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Yeah, I was going
to ask Ms. Villegas to chime in. I know yesterday she was getting inundated by
calls, as well. So go ahead, Ms. Villegas. What's going on your side?
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. Mr. Lord, would Premier Medical Group agree
that the County doesn't owe them money for the testing over the last few months?
MR. LORD: I wouldn't know that. My guess is they would, but I don't know
what they're going to agree to.
MS. VILLEGAS: Well, they do not agree.
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MR. LORD: Okay.
MS. VILLEGAS: And my other question is, was an RFP put out for this new
contactor?
MR. LORD: Yes, and there were three people that responded, and the selection
was made from the RFP for the airport testing.
MS. VILLEGAS: Interesting. Also not, for the lack of a better term, word on the
street. My next question is, so this transition that happened, not smoothly, not
instilling confidence or calm, in both the constituents and the workers at the
airport, or visitors this new contract I've been told is only for two weeks?
MR. LORD: I was not in on the contracting part. Were you on those
conversations, Deanna?
MS. VILLEGAS: So my confusion is a system that had actually been working
and we've had great feedback about was then interrupted, transitioned with a gap
in service from flights landing. There was testing was not happening yesterday
at some point. And all that done for a two-week contract with a new company?
MR. LORD: As I said, I understand the next level of contract is for two weeks.
Whether it's continuing after that, is up to our funding ability and the federal
funds coming in, and how we can handle that. And also, the Governor is making
a new proclamation in April. So there will be changes as to what's expected for
testing, also.
MS. VILLEGAS: Deanna, can you answer whether this new contract was signed
for two weeks?
MR. LORD: I cannot. Deanna, are you able to?
MS. SAKO: So yes, it was signed for two weeks; but like Mr. Lord said, to
coincide because at the time we didn't have the Governor's new proclamation yet.
MS. VILLEGAS: And the new proclamation affects the transition for a two-week
contract?
MS. SAKO: No,just to make sure nothing changed. So then we'll be looking at
it to see how long we want to go and what we can afford.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, so from now on the County is agreeing that we owe this
contractor and we're responsible for paying them?
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MS. SAKO: I think, this morning—from April 1st the County started paying for
all testing again.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, but the testing from prior to that, and back to my other
question, do you think the prior contractor agrees with the current summation by
Mr. Lord that we don't owe them the money? And I'm told it's upwards of over
$1 million.
MS. SAKO: As I mentioned earlier, we don't have a contract with them, or we
did not have a contract with them, from the middle of December to the end of
March for airport testing. That was paid by someone else. So we probably do
owe them a little bit for community testing. They bill us regularly; I'm not sure if
we paid every invoice or not. So speaking for like community testing, we
probably do owe them some money. But strictly for airport testing, we did not
have a contract with them, from middle of December to end of March.
MS. VILLEGAS: I don't understand how the County wouldn't have a contract
with somebody while they're doing testing at our airport.
MS. SAKO: Because someone else was paying for it.
MS. VILLEGAS: But it doesn't sound like that somebody else was paying, and
that's part of the problem why they're coming to the County, asking us to pay.
MS. SAKO: I think Lee and I have shared everything we know about it, so we
can probably try and find more information. But we're probably not going to
resolve that this afternoon.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. I just alsoI guess I want to
MS. SAKO: But I hear your concerns.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, because it doesn't quite line up or make sense, and it
definitely calls into question this last-minute transition to a new contractor for a
two-week contract. It calls into question to me, who is the new contractor and
what are the relationships? You know, I was told that there was no RFP, and so
this contract was just given.
MS. SAKO: Even before, when we used Premier Medical Group, there was no
RFP. We used Emergency Procurement, and they were the only one we even got
a quote from, both times; and so this time, we at least did get quotes from other
vendors.
MS. VILLEGAS: And who's the new vendor we signed with?
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MS. SAKO: I believe the name is BasisDx.
MS. VILLEGAS: I'm sorry, Basis?
MS. SAKO: Basis, b-a-s-i-s.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. And then, d-x?
MS. SAKO: Yes.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, thank you. Are you aware, Mr. Lord, if testing is
resumed in full capacity at the Kona Airport right now?
MR. LORD: I'm aware that the testing that we're expecting to be done is
being done. The testing level sometimes are at 50 percent, sometimes they're
25 percent. It's an agreement between us and the testers as to the number of
people coming in, Also nowadays, who is showing up has already been
vaccinated or—not vaccinated, but has their test already done within 72 hours.
But the expected number of tests that we're expecting to be done are being done
at this point and time.
MS. VILLEGAS: And they have resumed today? Or did the contract start today,
or when did the contract start?
MR. LORD: Today.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. But there was no contract in effect yesterday?
MR. LORD: Premier finished the day yesterday.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. There's a lot more questioning that a lot of people have
expressed, my constituents, but I'll leave this here right now and plan to follow
up. And if any of my colleagues have follow-up questions, that would be great.
Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Woman Villegas.
MR. INABA: Chair?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Oh, Mr. Inaba, go ahead.
MR. INABA: A follow-up question for the administration.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, they're still here.
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MR. INABA: I haven't gotten any phone calls about this, but this is the first time
learning about it. We're signing a two-week contract. That timeline is going to
fly by. What are we planning to do within these two weeks so that we have some
kind of continuation of service?
MR. LORD: Mr. Roth is the one doing the discussions along with Civil Defense.
We're looking at first of all, what's the Governor's position going to be? I'm
hearing that they're going to be expecting more testing and then we have to find
out who will be paying for that, and are we talking about mainlanders or are we
talking about inter-island people? So, we're ongoing on. We can continue the
contract if need be, after April. We would have to look at what our funding is;
and if we can fund that after that point and time or not, depending on what the
needs are.
MR. INABA: Okay. And you said that sometimes we're arranging our testing
from 25 to 50 percent, depending on if they're test done. Everyone is supposed to
have a test done or is quarantined. So who are we testing, and who are we not?
MR. LORD: So I can't answer that question and those details. There's
agreements at times that there's more people at the airport. If, you know, four
large planes come in, there's the ability to not test everyone coming in if they're
showing some documentation. So that's all an agreement that I don't know the
specifics about.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. And just wrapping this up, sorry. We're in day
three of budgets right now. We had Civil Defense comment. If we have any idea
what we're going to do—I mean, this is for the next fiscal year, but we need to
figure out what's going to happen. Because health and safety here is first, and if
we don't have that figured out when our contract is ending in two weeks, this is
not good.
So, I'll leave it at that. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, Council
Member Chung. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Lee, I'm just going
to go ahead. Let's do this, we have Parks and Recreation, so they could be a
pretty long conversation; if you can back to usI mean, and we'll tie it back in
the budget, daily cost, because we're talking about public safety here. And from
what you just said, and it's kind of a wishy-washy answer. So daily cost and the
funding source for this testing because that's important for us to know. From
what I remember, this daily cost for this testing was pretty expensive.
MR. LORD: Okay, I can do that.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So if you can come back. Let's say, give
you until we finish, maybe Housing and Community Development, and then we'll
go from there. And just give us some kind of update so that people in Kona, and
our Council Members in Kona can kind of wrap their head around on what's
going on, and then we can understand where the funds are coming from.
MR. LORD: Okay.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay?
MR. LORD: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Lord.
MR. LORD: Thank you.
MS. VILLEGAS: May I just ask one more quick question before you go, and
maybe it's something you could bring back? Is there somewhere that public can
see the RFP? Is that posted?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Deanna is going to come answer your
question.
MS. SAKO: Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear earlier. There was no RFP. We got
quotes because it was an emergency purchase situation,just like with the previous
vendor we had for testing. So no, there's no RFP that's posted.
MR. LORD: So I need to apologize, Council Member Villegas, I'm the one who
said RFP. When I heard that there were three quotes, I didn't realize it was an
emergency situation.
MS. VILLEGAS: So the three quotes were provided unsolicited?
MS. SAKO: Well, I mean, we got quotes from three different vendors, yes. I
mean, yes, people we knew that did the testing, and we called.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, we'll circle back on this one. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Just to ask,
we're talking about Hilo and Kona, or only Kona?
MR. LORD: Both.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Both facilities?
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MR. LORD: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, because this is a good question
then. Then maybe why Mr. Chung is getting phone calls, as well,probably
Ms. Lee Loy, as well. From Hilo, yeah?
MS. LEE LOY: Not from Hilo, but just some friends in Kona. Yeah, I do want
to kind of ask more questions. What I don't—I'm not clear on, is we have this
emergency proclamation which provides emergency procurement. We got
quotes. There was shift. This is at our State facilities. I think we just need to talk
about it from kind of 30,000-foot elevation down. But at the end of the day,
whatever information we can get out to constituents and/or workers at the airport
so they can make good decisions I think would be incredibly helpful. So thank
you, Managing Director. We look forward for you to come back this afternoon.
MR. LORD: You're welcome.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Lord.
MR. LORD: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay with that, let's get started with Parks
and Recreation. Thank you for your patience today.
3) Department of Parks and Recreation:
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Moe, if you want to come up. There's a
computer on the right, and it has the PowerPoint on the computer. To your left, is
where you're going to see everybody on Zoom—and however you would like to
set up. Please introducer yourself, your staff, and we'll go from there.
(Note: At this time, Parks and Recreation Director Maurice Messina,
Deputy Director Michelle Hiraishi, and Business Manager Reid Sewake
came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. MESSINA: Okay, thank you, Chair. Maurice Messina, Director of Parks
and Recreation. I'm here with Michelle Hiraishi, the Deputy of Parks and
Recreation; and Reid Sewake, our Business Manager. We'll try to answer as
many of your questions as we can, and those we can't, we have Reid here to help
us out.
So we don't have a PowerPoint presentation today, but we're just going briefly go
over—real briefly go over what our department is and how our department
operates. Pretty much everything that our department does is out there in the
public anyway.
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Right now, Parks and Recreation, we have nine divisions and we have about six
or seven other sub-divisions within our department, including aquatics, nutrition,
and just all of these other options, like Summer Fun. Our budget this year is $30
million, which is a slight increase from last year, and the biggest—the reason for
the increases are our water, our utilities, our electricity, and some of our security
costs have risen.
We currently have 37 vacant positions that we are actively trying to fill. The
majority of those positions are in Elderly Activities Division and in our
Maintenance Division. We filled three more today, which brings that down to 34,
but they haven't been hired yet.
Our administration budget is slightly increased. One of the reasons for that is
we're going to continue doing the West Hawaii Golf Subsidy Program. We got
really good feedback from that from the two courses that we use this year, and we
want to continue that because it really did make a good impact for the West
Hawai`i, and it didn't really bother too much our golf play at the Hilo Municipal
this, so that was really positive.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: If I could ask, what are the two facilities in
West Hawaii?
MR. MESSINA: Makalei and Waik6loa.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
MR. MESSINA: So just let me get my notes here really quick.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I thought that was a very neat ask that
Rebecca Villegas did.
MR. MESSINA: Yeah, and it worked out really good. A lot of positive. I didn't
have a chance to play myself, but you know, will.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: One day.
MR. MESSINA: So I'm just going to go over really quick our different divisions
that we have. So Parks Maintenance Division, this year our budget is set at about
$11 million. Slight increase. Backwater received an increase of security services,
and another increase that we have here is for our tree trimming services. For
instance, at the golf course we have about 1,000 trees that we need help with
trimming. The equipment that we have actually makes ruts and stuff in the golf
course, so we have to contract those out.
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Cemeteries, slight increase in our Cemetery Fund, as well. West Hawaii
Veterans Cemetery has seen our increase mostly, at the cemeteries.
Our Recreation Division, slight increase there, as well. Our Recreation Division,
we usually get on offset in our budget for the revenues that we receive. This year,
because we've used a lot of our facilities, including the Ho`olulu Complex, which
is the tennis stadium and the civic, has a testing food drop and vaccination point.
We weren't able to recognize the revenue that we normally see in a year there.
And it's the same throughout, some of our revenues are short, because right now
we don't have camping. We're not seeing as many reservations as we had last
year, but we see that coming up again this year.
Also, our pavilion rentals should be coming up again, which is now going to be
another increase for us. The camping is going to be coming up again. We're
going to opening up more of our swimming programs. Swimming teams, they're
going to be coming through, as well.
Since I'm on revenue, really quick, the other revenue streams that we will be
seeing are at the Hilo Municipal, our restaurant and our starter—well not our
starter but our golf course concession. We have both of those contracts right now.
They've been extended out till December 31", and we're currently working on the
RFP so that we can get those new contracts in there.
The same thing for the Gilbert Kahele Recreation Area. We're going to be
bringing a vendor in there, and we're going to have start gazing as well, but that
all depends on when we can actually get that area out of the Forest Reserve. Once
we get it out of Forest Reserve, then we can start utilizing those two things and
start realizing some more funds. It's going to be the same thing for all of our
other programs, as well.
Summer Fun. Right now, we're going to be looking at twenty different sites.
Thirty kids per site, which is going to be about 300 kids in Summer Fun. We're
currently right now hiring all of the part-time workers for Summer Fun assigned,
I think 15, more contracts today for that. We don't see any issues. We appreciate
the Council's help with the contingency funds throughout the years, and we're
going to be asking for that again for next year, our guys, you know,just for
helping us offset some of those costs, so we really appreciate that.
Aquatics. Another slight increase. A very, very small increase. Right now, for
our Aquatic Section, we do have this is one of our most expensive assets that we
have, mostly due to electricity cost. All of them are aging infrastructures, every
single one of them. We're going to be able to get Laupahoehoe Pool opened back
up next month. We still have Honoka`a Pool down for repairs, and we're working
with Council Member Kimball to see what we can do to get that up again. And
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we also have NAS (Naval Air Station)Pool down, but that's for an ADA
(American with Disabilities Act)project.
Ho`olulu Complex. Just have a low revenue across the board, like I mentioned
there. We're going to be suspending the testing operations, and the vaccination
operations, and the food-drop operations there for the month of June, because
we're going to have Merrie Monarch come in. So what we're doing is we're
looking at all of our other facilities and ways we can assist Civil Defense and the
Food Basket for alternate locations.
Culture and Education. Impact on that is we're bringing in $15,000 that was in
the Fire Department's budget, and this is for 4h of July. We think it's important
for our County if we can somehow figure out a way, even if it's a very small, very
socially distanced, 4h of July fireworks display. We couldn't do that last year,
and so we're going to work with the Mayor's administration to see if there's a
way that we can get something going for that. We think it's really important for
not just our County but for the whole State to celebrate something after COVID.
County Band. We're pretty much the same on County Band,just a slight
increase. We have started to be able to get our East Hawaii County Band out of
indoor practice facilities. We're able to get them out outdoors for one practice a
month right now, at Mo`oheau Park, and we're going to be doing the same thing
for the West Hawaii Band. This is one of the ways that we're going to slowly
bring back the band to the County, and that way when we're able to finally start
doing other things, actually they would have performances instead of just
practices, they'll be ready to go.
Elderly Activities Division. I stated before, in front of you guys, that we're
looking around July to get our senior programs going again. Our Nutrition
Program, Coordinated Services, RSVP (Retired Senior Volunteer Program)
program, these are all very important, not just to the seniors. But anybody who
walks into a County building and sees one of the RSVP volunteers, they're very
cordial and inviting, and it really helps a lot. Right now, they continue mostly
with their food service programs, the Meals on Wheels, and reaching out to the
seniors who have nobody else out there.
The Pana`ewa Zoo. Right now, we are finishing up our $5 million ADA project.
We should be done in the next couple of months or so. Right now, our fence crew
is working on the tiger exhibit, replacing the bottom nine-foot of the tiger
enclosure, and we really do not want to open up the zoo until at least that
enclosure—well, not because the tiger is going to get out. But that's one of our
biggest attractions at the zoo, is the tiger enclosure. I feel personally, that if we
open the zoo without that, that's going to be a little bit taken-away.
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The ADA projects going good. Wet weather caused us a few delays, but for the
most part, we're making it through. Security costs, electric costs there, again they
have been raised a little bit.
Golf Course. Golf Course is running smooth. We're actuallyI think we should
finish the fiscal year a little bit in the black, for the first time in a long time. That
was mostly due to COVID. When things started opening up, golf course was the
first thing that we opened up, and so we did have a rush to get back to play.
We've had some bumps along the road about making sure the play is keeping up
with the demand, and we're going to continue to work on that.
That's about it, for like a very, very quick rundown. The way that Michelle and I
were talking about doing the budget is wanted to have more of a discussion with
you folks instead of setting up with a long presentation. Because like I said,
there's a lot of people in our County who understand the parks, who understand
the beaches, and they understand exactly what we do. So given that, I would like
to turn it over to you guys for questioning.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo, Moe, I appreciate that. In a kind
of expeditious time allotment, I think that's good. Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Hi, guys. Thanks for being here, and thanks for inviting me
early in for an early conversation. So I just kind of wanted to have that similar
conversation that we had earlier, and really around your department summaries.
And we talked about this, right? Which is, one of the goals, mission statements
and department goals around facilities, was maintaining a five-year plan for
repairs and maintenance.
MR. MESSINA: Yes. So one of the things that we're really pushing is
preventative maintenance schedule, and we know that there needs to be a
five-year plan on that. We are going to create that five-year plan. We don't
currently have one. Right now, because of what happens in our department, it's
mostly just catch up, catch up, catch up. You know, something breaks, we go out
and fix it. We need manpower, we go out and get the manpower. But right now,
we feel that a maintenance plan to let us know where we need to be not just one
year, two years, but five years down the road. I completely agree with you that
this is something that we need, and that's what we're going develop within our
department.
MS. LEE LOY: Perfect. And I think, if you guys have been watching the last
few days, we're constantly asking for a needs assessment, and I really think that
this plan would help, right? Because as we begin to develop priority funding for
different facilities, you know, how we can then amplify the dollars.
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As you begin to develop this five-year maintenance repair schedule or
maintenance plan, could you also please give consideration to the facilities that
you charge fees for? So for example, if it's a beach park pavilion, if there's a fee,
or camping permit, or something around that, so there's something tangible. You
know, it's one thing we want to repair facilities, but if there's a way to capture
some of those costs back through a fee for service,that would also be helpful.
And then, the question I had was around our cemeteries. I know you expanded
our cemetery out at Alae. We did a little bit more. Are you folks going to be
asking for more maintenance for that facility? And individuals, right? It's like a
park. You expand the park; you need more grass-cutters. So I just wanted to hear
a little bit around the plan for our cemeteries.
MR. MESSINA: I believe right now we're able to operate our facilities within
the budget. Speaking specifically for Alae Cemetery, the biggest problem we're
having there now are pigs. They're just completely tearing up everything. I
mean, if you go island-wide right now, if you go out to Kamehameha Park in
Kohala, it looks like you're trying to plant corn. That's how much they've torn it
up. So we're going to work on an RFP to get some people to come out and trap
the pigs.
We worked with DLNR (Department of Land and Natural Resources). We
looked at what they had available. We called everybody on DLNR's list, but
nobody answered our call. I guess it was a really old list.
So for Alae CemeteryI mean, we do have that's probably our biggest concern
there, and after speaking with our Parks Maintenance Manager, the only way that
we're going to be able to correct that is actually to fence the entire cemetery. But
if we're looking at our fencing crew, during COVID, this is the same crew that
also does all of our waxing for all of our floors. So they spent three and a half
months at the civic fixing that, and then we send them right to the zoo to take care
of the tiger enclosure. So that's one of the things that we constantly have a
backlog of what we need to fix.
The other cemeteries, West Hawaii Veterans Cemetery, we got a real good group
out there that is helping us, and we got some the water really is the one thing out
there that's getting us the most. Other than that, I think our crews are doing a
pretty good job. We've currently got 13 cemeteries that we take care of.
MS. LEE LOY: Oh, yeah. No doubt. You guy's got hard workers in the
Parks Department, which you just mentioned the fencing and waxing crew,
which is on your programs, on page 170. And they have a number of total
work orders generated, right; and then work orders completed. Do you guys
have, maybe just a thumbnail or just an estimate, on the cost associated with that?
The reason I'm asking is, because we have a number of Friends of the Park
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agreement, and if there's ways to kind of alleviate some of that costs, right,
through a Friends of the Park agreement and/or, Moe, our favorite, the
Sponsorship Agreement, you know, we actually see some of the return on
investment on how community—and how we're leveraging some of our
community assets through partnerships that actually support the parks. I know
you don't have it now, but if you could—maybe just real big numbers. Reid,
that's your job.
MR. MESSINA: So are you specifically saying Alae Cemetery?
MS. LEE LOY: No. Well, in the program highlights, right, you have plumbers,
fencing and waxing crew, electricians,painters, carpenter shop. There's a
whole you have a whole squad of people doing things, and just to put some
dollar values behind the work orders. And then, what the value of all those work
orders are, would be helpful. And this is just big picture, right? We're trying
to
MR. MESSINA: Well, I believe our maintenance repair budget right now is
about$450,000. Just like has had been said here the last of days, you know,
we're coming in at kind of the end of our budget cycle here, and I believe I
discussed this with some of you at different times,but that is going to be one of
our line items that we're going to be looking to increasing. We've got to increase
that. We've got to increase that. But as of right now, I know Reid works with
Deanna and Finance, for when we do have those shortfalls, they help us out.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I think we're all after the same thing, right, Repair and
Maintenance, increasing that budget. Or, trying to offset it a little bit. If it's fees,
right? If it's a sponsorship agreement. You know,just trying to—whatever we
can get, right? And just looking at it at many different ways.
I'm going to yield right now. I know my other colleagues have probably more
line items questions to ask you. But I just wanted to ensure we talked about the
needs assessment on the five-year maintenance plan. Thank you, Chair. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee. There's no lights in
Hilo. Kona, questions, concerns?
MR. INABA: Aloha. Holeka.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Go ahead.
MR. INABA: Director Messina, thank you. And I believe you met with all of us
individually, the only department to do so, and I thought that was incredibly wise.
So, mahalo.
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Parks and Recreation, I have expressed in our meetings—it's really important for
me, because I think it's really important for our community, most especially our
keiki. I think I might be echoing on something someone else said. But really, we
know you folks are required to cut back, but we really would like to know how
you can be supported. Because I am looking at other department budgets to see
how we can help your department.
Especially here on the west side, and I've said this multiple times before,
District 8 we have a cemetery, and all of my constituents use the facilities in
Council Member Villegas's district. So please,just let us know, even prior to
the next—after we get the real budget, how we can help. So I just have that to say
and looking forward to talking story and supporting your department moving
forward. Chair, I yield.
MR. MESSINA: Okay thanks, Holeka. I really appreciate it, and I appreciate
you as our Chair of our committee. Really appreciate you always being there to
answer our phone calls.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Rebecca or Maile?
MS. VILLEGAS: Yes,please. Aloha, Moe.
MR. MESSINA: Aloha.
MS. VILLEGAS: Aloha. And Michelle, thank you for being here today. I first
off wanted to thank both of you for meeting with me prior and providing such a
succinct presentation, outlining the past budget and where you're going with your
budget. I also really wanted to compliment you on your teamwork, as Director
and Deputy Director, and you're setting out, really, values in alignment with one
another. And your communication style with one another, that really resonated in
our meeting, and I just really appreciated that. It's not always the case in
departments, and it's really wonderful to see that in Parks and Rec.
I wanted to also report that my flags are finished, so I'll be looking forward to
getting those to Parks and Rec. to be hung. And I want to thank our keiki for all
the wonderful artwork that they put on those.
I also just wanted to—well, I guess we can—we'll talk later offline. Sorry, I just
had a total brain fart, and my mind just went completely blank. My apologies.
After lunch. But want to just thank you again. And I'll look forward to following
up on all the exciting projects. It's just been tremendous to work with you in
Parks and Rec., and I know that District 7 and West Hawaii wholeheartedly
continues to appreciate your leadership style and the attention given to the parks
on this side. So, thank you so much for that. I yield.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Ms. Kimball, go
ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Hi, Director and Deputy Director. Reid, nice to meet you.
Thanks for—well, Sue brought up the cemetery. And this actually we didn't get
a chance to talk about, when we discussed that the other day.
But I did get a call about the pig issue there, and my staff is actually looking into
some pig-trappers, so let's coordinate that. Because our list was old too, we tried
to probably use the same list from DLNR, and nobody does that anymore. But I
am interested—do you have a cost estimate on what fencing might entail for
Alae?
MR. MESSINA: No, I don't.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay.
MR. MESSINA: We can get that to you, though.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, I'd be interested, because I agree. I think, unfortunately
that's probably our only solution long-term. I do drive by it every day, and like
you say, it's pretty beat up, so it would be good to try to do something.
So I'm looking the main thing I want to ask about is, you know, we have some
options for increased revenue that we've discussed offline, and I'm sure you've
discussed with the other Council Members. The three areas that I'm curious
about for looking for cost savings are the costs for our security contracts, water,
and electricity. Are you guys doing work on moving some of our facilities to
solar, or—Michelle's laughing. I'll just put it out there, what are some of your
thoughts on reducing those energy costs over time?
MR. MESSINA: So yes, we do need to reduce the energy costs. Where we can
and where we have the money to put up the solar,we will; or like Ms. Lee Loy
was talking about, working with the communities to do that. If you look at our
pools, we EFDs (Energy Flow Density) in the pools, which reduces our electrical
output, when the pools are not necessarily being used.
We do have solar panels on some of our pools. We have solar panels on just a
few of our facilities, and that is something that we need to do. We also have very,
very aged facilities. And so, we'll keep looking at that, in fact R&D (Department
of Research and Development) has spoken to us about that, on ways to become
more energy efficient, so we'll continue to work with them.
You know, right now our budget is barebones, and if there's a way we can reduce
costs on something, even though it could pay us back a couple years down the
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road, we will look in doing that. But I think maybe we'll just—we'll continue
looking—working with R&D, but there seems like they have a lot of good ideas
on how to get us in a better place with our electricity.
MS. KIMBALL: I believe that Parks and Recreation facilities would fall under
the Sustainability Partners contract that we were talking about earlier today,
which is something that R&D is—are you shaking your head no, Deanna, or are
you ? The presentation that Riley gave me on the relationship with
Sustainability Partners did include some of facilities assessment, so I don't know
if that would be—my understanding was that it included all County facilities. But
let's have that conversation with them at some point. What about water? Any
ways to reduce water consumption?
MR. MESSINA: Well, we did recently have a meeting with DEM (Department
of Environmental Management) about their R-1, R-2 water; the usage of potable
water in some places, where we could possibly use R-1 water. There are some
issues involved with that, that DEM could speak to, because they're a little over
my head, the engineering aspect of it. But for the most part, our water usage
comes from—it's just like a necessity. If you look at West Hawaii Veterans
Cemetery, the only reason it's green is because of the water we use.
And when you talk about how do we reduce the cost of the consumption of water,
Michelle and I went into the greenhouse down thereI mean, I know this is so
small—but we went into the greenhouse that's there. We moved all the plants
around ourselves, put them in one specific spot, turned off all the hoses and
faucets in the other area, and I know it sounds so small, but for us even just saving
a few dollars is important to us. And we also feel that once the plants and
everything take out there, and they no longer need that constant water, I think that
those costs will come down, as well.
We are also—if you look at some of our ADA projects, specifically if you look at
Kolekole Beach Park, where we have the ADA project coming in, we're going to
be bringing in water there. And so right now, we don't have a cost associated
with water, but we will soon, which is another one of our increases. It's because
we've got to have potable water at that park.
MS. KIMBALL: Do you guys have a regular schedule for water delivery
maintenance? For that infrastructure, you know, making sure that there's leakage,
all the taps are working, and everything. Do you have a maintenance schedule for
that?
MR. MESSINA: And also, Reid and his team, as soon as they notice that
there's a difference, and also maintenance does this as well, as soon as they
see an increase that just looks out of norms—luckily we do have our own
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plumbers in-house, so we'll send out our park caretakers, our supervisors, in that
certain district. If they can't find the leak, then we'll send these guys out.
And also, Water Supply works closely with us. If we notice that there's a
problem, they'll help us, as well.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, great. And then lastly, what about the security? Yeah,
it's big expense. Is it just it is what it is, or other ways to ?
MR. MESSINA: Well, we send out—
MS.
utMS. KIMBALL: Obviously we want to protect our facilities.
MR. MESSINA: Yes. And over the last year, there were some security services
that dropped off because of the cost. For instance Kalakaua Park no longer has
security there. We don't have security at every one of our facilities, but the ones
where we do have security, that's where they're most needed. We look at
Spencer Beach Park. We look at Isaac Hale Beach Park. Lincoln Park, we've got
to have security at Lincoln Park. As soon as we brought security in there, our
crime numbers went drastically, drastically down. It's safe for families in that
park again, so we don't want to do away with it.
So, we're running at our minimum security. We need security at the zoo, which is
why our increase at the zoo. We can't just leave it overnight without anybody
being there.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, great. I'll yield for now. That's all the questions I have.
Thank you both.
MR. MESSINA: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Mr. Chung, go
ahead.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, thank you. Hi, Maurice. I don't have too many questions.
You know, in terms—well, last year or a year or so ago, we did an audit on the
cash handling at the Mass Transit Division. What's the cash-handling situation
with your department? You got any thoughts on that?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes, and I believe we also had a
cash-handling audit. We also had one a few years back, as well.
MR. CHUNG: Oh, okay.
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MR. MESSINA: And followed through with all the suggestion, and I believe that
we've made every we fixed everything that they had issues with.
MR. CHUNG: Well, how many programs currently handle cash?
MR. MESSINA: I wouldn't say necessarily say "programs," I would say
"divisions."
MR. CHUNG: Okay, divisions?
MR. MESSINA: Yes, like our administration, we handle like the camping
permits, pavilion permits. At the pools, we have people who come in, who want
to pay monthly fees. Or if they want to swim in a certain program, they pay there.
Our Recreation Division, sometimes people come in there. They pay with cash.
So we have numerous ones that pay with cash.
MR. CHUNG: Golf Course?
MR. MESSINA: Golf Course pays with cash as well, yes.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. Is that good system, though? I mean how do you keep
track? How do you account or make sure that all the monies that are supposed to
come into the County are coming in?
MR. MESSINA: Well, our Business Manager audits our divisions, and we have
also have an accountant in almost every one of our divisions, as well.
MR. CHUNG: But that's way after the fact, right? Not at point of transaction,
right?
MR. MESSINA: Correct.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah. I think you guys should take a closer look at that. That's
my suggestion, okay?
And you know, I don't like to bring up things of a local concern. Okay, like for
my district, but since you're here and it's not going take too long, and we did talk
about it, but just so you can get the word out, what's the status on exercise
equipment around the Bayfront Trails, Lincoln Park area? Just briefly.
MR. MESSINA: So Lincoln Park Trails, we sent out our specs to the company
that we're working with on April 5h, and we're waiting for them to get back to us.
As far as the Bayfront Trails, we're going to be looking for some funding if we
want to put exercise equipment out there. And we're going to know, once we
install the exercise equipment at Lincoln Park, we'll know exactly what it takes
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for us to do that, and we'll have a better cost estimate of what it would take on the
Bayfront Trails.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. You'll let me know, right?
MR. MESSINA: Yes, sir.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. Alright. Because, Reid, I have some money stashed away,
right, someplace? Yeah, okay. Then we can kind of work on that, yeah. I mean,
I've been cockroaching that money from the contingency and just dumping it into
your account for many years, right? So I think we got a sizeable amount that we
could use for that, yeah? Alright, thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You're welcome. Thank you, Mr. Chung.
Ms. David. I skipped over you.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go ahead, Ms. David. Sorry about that.
MS. DAVID: No, no worries. Thank you. Aloha, Director and Deputy. Thank
you for being here. I also want to say thank you for your pre-meeting with me
and going over your very comprehensive summary of your budget. And so I
don't really have many that many questions, but I do want to let you know that I
believe, at least on this side yeah, because of the remoteness some of our facilities
on this side, the security is really an issue, and I know that you folks are very tight
on your budget with that respect.
I just want to say that I think in preventive maintenance in that plan that
Ms. Lee Loy talks about, you know, I believe, or I would hope that the security
aspect of that would be something that is at the forefront, to keep our facilities
safe for the community members. I also want to mahalo and aloha the Friends of
the Park organizations that really do help out in that respect.
And I was sorry that with COVID funding, that once that was gone there was a
real rise in security issues at some of the beach facilities. So I just wanted to let
you know that is the very important issue, I think, for a lot of us in our districts. If
I can help with anything in that department, you know, discussing new methods
or ideas, I would be very, very open to that. So that's what I just wanted to
mention to you folks and thank you folks for putting some attention to that and
recognizing the security issues.
My other question is, our County facilities, how many of our park facilities do
you have left to do ADA compliance?
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MR. MESSINA: Sixteen.
MS. DAVID: Sixteen? One, six?
MR. MESSINA: Yes.
MS. DAVID: I see. And that's island-wide?
MR. MESSINA: Correct.
MS. DAVID: And I believe, Deanna, we do have all the funding to complete
ADA for parks?
MR. MESSINA: We're
MS. DAVID: Is thatevery ?
MR. MESSINA: We had enough to go through our first initial cost. We've had
some additional costs associated, and we're working with Finance right now to
help us shore up those additional cost items.
MS. DAVID: Okay, and so we're okay with that? We can still proceed with the
ADA compliance stuff?
MR. MESSINA: Yes, we're court mandated to proceed.
MS. DAVID: Right. That's why I'm just wondering if we have the funds
available so that we can continue to comply. Oh, hi, Director.
MS. SAKO: Hi. So, yesI mean we did come in with that initial bond
authorization, but we are going to have come in and ask for more, because as time
elapses, costs go up. And as we've been discussing with other departments, the
costs right now, especially construction costs, continue to go up. So it would be
part of the next bond authorization we come in to ask for. They do not have
enough to complete every project right now.
MS. DAVID: Okay.
MS. SAKO: But we're working on it.
MS. DAVID: Okay, great. That's good to know. Thank you for getting us on
the road to compliance. Aside from that I think that's all the questions. You
know, the security, the maintenance plan, is something that I—and the ADA
compliance, are the only things that I was really thinking, as far as priorities, in
my mind.
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So I want to thank you guys again for always being available and willing to help
whenever we call. So, I yield. Thank you very much.
MR. MESSINA: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. David. Ms. Kierkiewicz,
go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Aloha, Moe, Michelle, great to see you.
And yes, thank you very much for taking the time to connect with us to go over
your budget in advance. It's really helpful.
Mahalo for all of your support in allowing us to do activations in County parks. I
think it's a great way to engage community, and just reinvigorate these public
spaces. Really excited to see the flags up and blowing in the wind in Kalakaua,
and just really grateful to the support of my colleagues, Rebecca, Holeka,
Chair David, Tim, them engaging their keiki in the community so that we could
have these flags blowing in the wind in parks island-wide. So mahalo.
Do you want to explore with you, developing some kind of toolkit so that
community members know what the steps to engaging your department, if they're
interested in doing art installation? So, you know, can commit myself to helping
you with that.
And just want to find ways in which we can further activate these spaces. I know
that you have RFPs with five different locations to bring in food trucks and do
want to see if we can be doing that in more parking lots for our park facilities
around the island. It's just a great way to be supporting local community and
bringing folks together. Clearly, there have to be COVID precautions in place,
but just a great way to just celebrate different flavors and unique characteristics of
community.
The question I have is related to 428 funding, that your department went after in
relation to the Kilauea eruption, you know with Ahalanui and Pohoiki. I know we
had submitted some pretty high-cost estimates to FEMA, but they determined was
fair. You know, I think there's certainly discrepancy, so maybe just an update on
how much we can expect from them. And if you've made any decisions around
how we'll leverage that funding to reinvest in park spaces, particularly Pahoa
District Park, but other parks in the region.
MR. MESSINA: So, we have a plan right now. Like I said earlier, with the
16 ADA projects, that is a very, very big concentration of ours. We're going to
be using those funds to redo the fields at Pahoa District park. As soon as we can
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get a good handle on our ADA projects that we have, the number one after that, as
far as our fields are concerned, is working on those fields.
We're also looking at doing the EA (Environmental Assessment) in HPP, for
Hawaiian Paradise Park, and the EA in the park over in Kalapana, I'm sorry, if
the name escapes be right now.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We call that Keokea.
MR. MESSINA: That's the one. Escapes me, yeah. So those are what we're
working on. We're also—we're talking with Deanna about the possibility of a
couple of other things, but for right now that is what we're working on, the
biggest parks. And we're also trying to get just a few pieces of equipment to
assist in our parks from that funding, as well.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, great. And the total funding was, I believe, around
$5 million?
MR. MESSINA: Correct.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. What's the timeframe for EAs for the parks in
Matt's and my district?
MR. MESSINA: We've just got to do the work.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. It's something that you're engage Public Works
with? What's the process?
MR. MESSINA: Well, we've first got to develop our scope of work. And then
what I can do, is I can reach out to you both and let you know what our timeframe
is as we get closer to it, so that you both understand exactly where we are in case
your constituents ask.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah, I mean, with HPP there was a whole public
engagement process, where they designed a master plan. James Komata had been
very helpful the last couple budget cycles,just identifying a very phased-in
approach of how we develop. So I hope that we're going to lean on that in terms
of developing the scope of work.
MR. MESSINA: And we can let you guys know once the bid process is complete
for EA.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay.
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MR. MESSINA: And we can let you guys know who was selected and where we
stand with that.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Perfect, thank you.
MR. MESSINA: You're welcome.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I appreciate you. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Okay,
Rebecca, I believe you had a follow-up question?
MS. VILLEGAS: I did. My brain flatulence has passed.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Very good to hear.
MS. VILLEGAS: So my question, Moe, had to do with most specifically wanting
to get a the potholes at Old Airport. We have a very vociferous constituent who
was concerned about the potholes at Old Airport, and it was brought up during
before the Sustainability Summit. Did that by any chance get to you?
MR. MESSINA: No it hasn't, but DPW constantly assists us out there, at Old
Airport.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yes.
MR. MESSINA: So we can do another assessment out there, and we'll speak
with our maintenance supervisor in the area. We'll work with DPW on that.
Thanks for bringing that to the attention.
MS. VILLEGAS: Doug Adams fielded that in the pre-meetings, before the
Sustainability Summit. And also,just for the sake of that number of people who
direct message me on social media, asking about camping and increasing hours at
our beach parks, I just wanted to ask the question here and give you the
opportunity to answer if you had any idea.
A lot of families are really looking forward and hoping toKohanaiki especially,
be able to return to camping there. And that park hours there used to close at
9:00, and they've been closing 7:00. Do you have any kind of idea of when those
activities might be allowed again? Reopening that income stream for you guys as
well as changing and lengthening the park hours so that those who like to surf
until sunset will be able to do so, as we have longer days in the summer.
MR. MESSINA: Yeah, so the current Mayor's COVID rule has park hours,
7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m., and camping is currently closed. As far as camping goes,
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it is a discussion that we've been having with the administration. May 15th is the
date we are going to be able to go into administration and say, "We believe that
this is when we can open up camping again." Right now, I believe they're all
closed to June l Ota', all of our camping. But May 15 is the day that we want to be
able to go into administration, see if we're in a safe enough place, till after that
June l Oh date, to reopen up camping. Our office gets inundated with calls every
single day. Everybody wanting to go out and do camping again.
It was originally closed because there was just no way for us to monitor the
campsites, when we were looking at the different sizes of gatherings and things of
that nature. But it is something that we're looking at and we're going to be
talking with administration about, as well as the park hours. You know, we're
seeing it too, as the summer comes it's light out longer. But we want to make
sure, Michelle and I, we don't make this decision without first coordinating with
all of our divisions, our Maintenance Division, our Recreation Division, making
sure that they have the capacity to increase these hours. And once we increase
those hours, make sure that we have the ability to monitor the people that are
there.
If COVID starts lessening its impact on our County, we can do that a lot quicker,
but again, that's one of those things that Administration, you know, with
Department of Health, Civil Defense, they're all going to be involved with that
along with our specific divisions, as well.
MS. VILLEGAS: Fantastic. Thank you, Moe. And along the lines of what
Council Member Kimball was talking about, I really appreciate you touching on
the topics of transitioning to solar and how we can more efficiently support using
less resources in our parks, transitioning to solar, reducing water, and whatnot.
And so I see an opportunity, and as the Mayor said when we started these budget
hearings on Tuesday, I think that energy saving performance contracts and doing
the scope of work for the County and each department mayI'm very hopeful
that may provide an avenue for identifying ways to make our to transition our
County park facilities being mor energy self-sufficient as well as utilizing less
resources.
And so, I'm just really hopeful that scope of work can get underway and that we
can count on you to come to the table with Parks and Recreation and put together
that kind of scope of work. Because we have so many facilities, and as you said
before, they are—many of them very old, and have lots of opportunity for
improvement in those infrastructure areas with those facilities and bring them up
into the 21" Century—and how they operate. So I look forward to being able to
support in that capacity.
MR. MESSINA: You know, Ms. Villegas, one the things that we're doing
already in-house, I mean, it sounds like a small thing, but it's going from the
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changing of our lightbulbs, going to more energy-efficient lightbulbs. Our
electricians, every time that they need to go in and change, if there's a way that
they can upgrade those lightbulbs to energy-efficient lightbulbs, they're doing it.
Our plumbers are looking to reduce the amount of water that it takes. We're not
using gallons and gallons of water to flush toilets anymore. Every time they've
got to go in and do a replacement, we're making sure we go energy efficient. I
know that's not something to—it's not—nothing you can not anything you can
see like a bunch of solar panels, but those are small ways, you know.
MS. VILLEGAS: I bet it does. Yeah, it adds up. It really adds up, so thank you.
And I also want to compliment you and your department. While there's still kind
of a delay in working on those two pilot parks to be herbicide-free, because your
staff is so focused on and for good cause, completing the ADA compliance
facilities in our parks, it's been really wonderful to have communication with the
Parks and Recreation staff and to see the impact that was made with the
educational program that came through with Beyond Pesticides, in looking at our
soils in our parks and being able to identify why we have more weeds in certain
spaces and why the grasses that we do want don't grow, and how that's related to
soil health, very directly. And to the microbiomes there, and how herbicides and
fertilizers actually contribute to the problem in the long run instead of bringing a
solution.
And I'm just very grateful for the enthusiasm and the recognition of these new
ways in order to take care of our precious soils, and make sure that they're healthy
as they can be. And in doing so, our parks can be as healthy as possible, and the
people that play in those parks can remain as healthy as possible. So I look
forward to continuing to work with you on those projects and the other projects in
the treatment of our facilities in those capacities.
MR. MESSINA: Okay, thank you.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Holeka, any
follow-ups?
MR. INABA: A`ole.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I don't see any lights on in Hilo.
Good discussion, Council. Thank you, Moe.
I will start off with your guy's revenues. I was looking over your different
revenue streams. And just some of my questions as far as what you're expecting
in 2022, I want to get just your take on it. Something that stood out,
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Summer/Intersession Class activities. I mean, 2019-2020 you didn't see much of
anything, is that just due to COVID?
MR. MESSINA: COVID.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, were you expecting to step back up
to $175,000, 2021-2022?
MR. MESSINA: We believe we can realize that, yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So let's take Summer/Intersession fees off
too, because it's about the same reasoning than. Recreation Classes and
Activities, about a three-time increase?
MR. MESSINA: Yeah, we believe. So COVID shut everything down. We're
seeing a lot, a lot, a lot of phone calls, and a lot of excitement about opening up
all these again, and so we believe we can realize those revenues, as well.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Mauna Kea Lodging, that was an
interesting one So is that—what's the reasoning betweenI mean, $16,000 from
2019-2020 to $172,000 for 2021-2022 in revenue?
MR. MESSINA: Right, so we closed down the bunk houses and the cabins at
Mauna Kea Recreation area, mostly during COVID. Recently opened back up the
cabins. But when opened back up the bunk houses and the cabins, including the
restaurant area, a lot of people go up there. We have a very high demand for
those.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I mean substantial, though.
$16,000 in 2019-2020, were the open in 2019-2020?
MR. MESSINA: We were closed a lot of the time during 2019-2020.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. MESSINA: Because of COVID.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: For three months of COVID?
MR. MESSINA: Closed for three months, during COVID.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So the nine months, you brought in
$16,000?
MR. MESSINA: Yeah.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sorry, revenue equals where we can go to
your department.
MR. MESSINA: Right.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So I'm wondering what your revenue
streams are. No, so what's the reasoning there? I know Reid's getting ready,
unless you could have that answer.
MR. MESSINA: So for that three months, right, we did—we were closed for the
three months, and the rest of the time we increased that revenue for what you see
there, or brought in that revenue from what you see there. When we open back up
fully, we're going to see a very large increase, I mean we're talking that's
almost like the most—what would be a way to say it—most economical place that
you can stay as a group of people. But, specifically for those revenues.
(Note: At this time, Business Manager Reid Sewake came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MR. SEWAKE: I just wanted to add on—Reid Sewake, Business Manager.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
MR. SEWAKE: So part of that variance is we actually had intended to, or
hopefully start our concessions up there, so the revenues would be part of that line
item potentially, if we get that up and going.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. MESSINA: And DLNR—Deputy of DLNR, Bob Masuda, he's watching
that and he's helping us get it out of the Forest Reserve, so we can actually realize
that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It seems that most things are lengthy with
the State. Is that going to be a quick process? I mean, look at(inaudible).
MR. MESSINA: It has been a while. We made it through the first hearings; and
according to DLNR, it shouldn't be too much longer.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay, so it's a combination of
because it's been three months being closed, $16,000 in revenue, to a $172,000 in
revenue for 12 months, I mean
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MR. MESSINA: If we even just have a rental up there for—if it'sif we're only
bringing in $10,000 a month, that's $120,000 over one year.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. MESSINA: So that includes concession, that includes star gazing, includes
rental of our amenities, you know, to use as you're camping. It's going to be
basically a small little restaurant up there.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow. Gas station?
MR. MESSINA: If you run out of gas, our guys will help you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I couldn't help it. I don't how many times
I've been there and seen someone asking me for gas. Or, where's the nearest gas
station? You just scratch your head and going, "You didn't check on the way
�
»
up.
MR. MESSINA: Yeah. And if that does happen,just for everybody's
knowledge, they can find one of our park caretakers and we'll see if we can help
them out.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for that. I think Kai Kahele
made a post recently and said, "Do like everybody else,just put it in neutral and
coast all the way to the nearest gas station,"which would be Hilo.
MR. MESSINA: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Facility use permits, I mean, you guys—for
Admin, Recreation, EAD (Elderly Activities Division), you had zeroes all the way
2019-2020, and then we're stepping up. I'm just—how come? What was the
what's the step there?
MR. MESSINA: Everything was offline during COVID.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And before that, were those equal to
like 2018-2019? Because we don't have a beautiful spreadsheet that shows us
previous years.
MR. MESSINA: Correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We only have 2019-2020 and 2021-2022 in
front of us. Or I mean, till 2020—from 2019 to 2024 is what we have in front of
us. So our previous years for those, I mean, were you looking at the numbers
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you've put for 2021-2022 estimates? No that facility is really nice. It used to be a
State facility, correct? And we transferred it over to County.
MR. MESSINA: We don't have the EO (Executive Order)yet. We have
management authority, but we don't have EO yet. That's one of the last things
we're waiting on, is take it out of the Forest Reserve before we can get the EO.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I know a lot of people, even some
of my co-workers enjoy that facility immensely.
MR. MESSINA: I stop every time I go to Kona.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Me, too. It's a place to stop. Okay, Reid,
go ahead.
MR. SEWAKE: Yeah, so the reason why you see zeros in the actuals on the
2019-2020 is we actually created a separate individual revenue accounts for
different facilities permits. That's just an effort to improve our cash-handling and
better to do our reconciliations.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay, I've seen that in other places,
so thank you for that. That clarifies that.
MR. MESSINA: You know, one of the questions were why we opened up our
park pavilions, the rental of our pavilions before anything else. And that was
some of the questions that came to us, and it really had to do with contact tracing.
It was like almost like a first come, first serve basis. But as soon as we were able
to get those open, we actually had to come in and write down who was all going
to be in that facility. So that was one of the questions that came up, "Why are you
guys able to do that, but not open camping?" And that was the biggest reason for
that. We knew people were already using those facilities, but we needed to know
actually who was in there. And not necessarily what we can do every night for
camping.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I didn't actually get the answer,
though. Before you created new line item or subaccounts, were those—are those
numbers good to go off of for the next year?
MR. SEWAKE: Yeah. We expect them to be good numbers, providing we
somehow return to normal, yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then camping fees, you're
talking about the same thing? You're expecting a little bit of an increase? Or
you're hoping for a full year of fees?
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MR. MESSINA: We're hoping for a full year of fees.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I think Ms. Lee Loy touched on
something earlier, too, the fees. You actually—Finance supplies us with that
revenue report. So all the fees are in there for what you guys do for camping and
everything else; so those were submitted. So maybe tie that into what she's
requesting, as part of that needs assessment discussion, and ease your work a little
bit? Okay, I think that was the only questions regarding your revenues.
The expenditures. Overtime for your band? I love the band; I love what they can
do. I know there's some discussion, like Billy Kenoi times to take it away, and
that was not well-liked. But overtime, what's the overtime charges there for?
MR. MESSINA: So our band practices on Tuesdays, and they're hourly workers.
The overtime comes like on the weekends or holidays, when they're doing
marching or doing concerts.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And you expect kind of that to hold
steady? It's a fairly large number that's why.
MR. MESSINA: We would hope so. We would hope so.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. MESSINA: And that is a normal year. If we're still going in the right way
in July and we can start doing performances again, we would hope that we could
realize that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Overtime at the cemetery, as well?
MR. MESSINA: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So you got a $4,000 increase for Alae?
Sorry, I know you have two or three that you
MR. MESSINA: Alright, so—what's the best way to say this? So our Parks
Maintenance Division is one of our largest overtime divisions. When someone
calls in sick, let's say in our administration office,we can kind handle it. We can,
you know, take on the responsibility to the other personnel there. But when
you're looking at Parks Maintenance, if someone calls in sick a day that it was
supposed to be mowed, or if somebody's called in sick a day it's supposed to be
open, we cannot not open our facilities.
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It's the same thing with the cemeteries. It takes us more time to actually mow the
grass now because of the pigs. It's like running over just rocks because of all
the—everything that's been drawn up.
We've also done away with our position, Vegetation Management Control
position, which is like a poison control person. We're now putting that back
doing each division and each area. So for instance the cemetery folks, our regular
folks now are out there doing that their own.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. MESSINA: But it's still cheaper than having a full-time position,
throughout the island doing all that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So your overtime, you feel that
although it's a little bit higher, that it's needed and necessary because of the way
your Parks staff is working out?
MR. MESSINA: Correct, yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But not to the point where you need more
personnel?
MR. MESSINA: We can operate with what we have now.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I saw that look on your face.
MR. MESSINA: Yeah. Everybody would say that they could always use more
personnel. But once we fill our 37, 34 positions that we have, we're going to be
in a good place. We're able to make do with what we have. But we just can't
build any more new facilities or anything because we're stretched to our limits
right now.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I've seen it before in other
departments, Miscellaneous Contributions from P&R. It's an expense, so not
a revenue stream. But what is that? And it's not just for you I'm asking, I
mean, I've seen in multiple departments now, but there's always a line item.
What is that?
MR. SEWAKE: We have that line item appropriated in the event that we do get
contributions or donations, and we do quite often receive. You know, of course
they go to Council, but we do have that appropriation existing already, so I've
been able to expend that donation.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But listed as an expense, though?
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MR. SEWAKE: Yes. Yeah, so we have a revenue account that matches that
expenditure.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Oh, got it. Okay. For the golf program—I
know I hear you, sorry, this the only time when I get these questions. West
Hawaii Golf Program, Miscellaneous Contract Services, and we also have Golf
Fund. Are they interchangeable? Does that need to be within your Parks and
Recreation, or could it be flip-flopped over to the Golf Fund?
MR. SEWAKE: Yeah, I think the Golf Fund is set up if we actually run a golf
course.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So Hilo Golf Course Fund is separate?
Hilo golf course.
MR. SEWAKE: Yeah, it's a special revenue fund.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Whereas, subsidizing the West Hawaii
golf course shouldn't be coming out of this account?
MR. SEWAKE: No, I don't think so, yeah. The subsidy for the West Hawaii
Program is General Funded.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. SEWAKE: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, trying to help. You know,
Heather Kimball touched on it here, overhead cost and your pools. They're
heavy, understood. Electricity, water, going down the line. Everyone's seen an
increase in electricity cost. Efficiency though, pumps—and I think even Civil
Defense too, when it comes to replacing motors, replacing a/c units, anything like
that, there are a lot of efficiency programs that will help. Rebate, even if it's in
government, and don't know that we take advantage of that. If we're not,please
look into that. I think Grayson—Grayson helps with that, where they'll do motor
replacements for
MR. SEWAKE: Yeah, we did. We started to take advantage of that program.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. You are already?
MR. SEWAKE: Yeah. We have an account with them set up.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Security services, is there any
way to turn that down? I mean, it's heavy. It's a heavy expense for you guys. I
know we touched on it. It's necessary. It's needed, but it's also a pretty large
expense for Parks and Recreation. Can a couple police in there, or substitute
police presence when, you know, you're hitting x-amount of time for your
security contracts?
MR. MESSINA: I wouldn't want for speak the Chief of Police on that. But we
already call the police a lot for our parks. Where we need the security right now,
like I said earlier, these are the facilities we need the security the most. We've
taken away security, where we can take it away. We go out—it's a I mean we
go off our bid list, you know, for the security when we have it. We need security,
for instance, night-time in Mauna Kea recreation area, Gilbert Kahele Recreation
areaI mean, our security is even out there because those bathrooms are open
24/7. They even have assisted us in cleaning our bathrooms and changing toilet
paper and stuff.
So everywhere we could take away security, we did. That has caused problems in
certain parks. At one time, a couple of years ago we were working with HTA
(Hawai`i Tourism Authority)to see if they could assist us with security costs,
because we heard that they were doing that same thing in Waikiki parks. I'm not
sure what their funding is going to be for this year, but that was one of the first
things that I thought of when we came back, and I saw what had happened. It was
like maybe we should reach out to HTA again and see if they can assist us,
especially in the parks where you have the most tourists.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Outcome? Anything?
MR. MESSINA: I just read what everybody else read about HTA, another
funding cut.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Yeah, it's a big expense for you
guys. I mean, even Parks Maintenance, you had $375,000 for security services,
but then $109,000—another $109,000 for Mauna Kea recreation area. Now,
that's just one place in your budget, yeah?
MR. MESSINA: Well, imagine being the guy 2:00 o'clock in the morning that
stops by there and use the restroom, or the women that stops by to use the
bathroom there, and we have no facilities open?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Understood. Beautification Fund is run by
Parks and Recreation as well, or handled by Parks and Recreation?
MR. SEWAKE: Oh yeah, we do have appropriations in that fund. I believe the
other department will be Public Works.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I think I saw five mower leases in
there or five mower purchases, correct? Okay. And we needI'm just checking,
we need all that equipment? Is that necessary or wanted?
MR. MESSINA: Necessary. Super necessary.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's a great answer, Moe. Thank you.
And then I'll be remiss for asking, Senior Community Service Aides, you have a
number of funded positions in the budget, under your Elderly Services, Elderly
Activities Division. I just wanted to understand that Elderly Activities, I mean,
there's got to be there's a 70 funded, but a vacant Service Aide positions in
here. I just want to understand that number.
MR. MESSINA: So I'll let Reid help out with this one, as well. But a lot of these
are like part-time positions, and with these part-time positions we got a lot of
resignations. A lot of people moving on to full-time positions. That's a majority
of them. And also is that for I'll let Reid answer that one.
MR. SEWAKE: Sorry, what division are you looking at?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This is the department 8000 Elderly
Activities, ADA-20, and then 8824 Senior Community Service Employment
Program.
MR. SEWAKE: So that 70 positions are actually a program we used to have
before, which the contract was actually rerouted to another agency, so we no
longer have that section in our
MR. MESSINA: We no longer have funding for those positions.
MR. SEWAKE: Funding for those positions, yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then that takes me right to
RSVP. That's coming under you guys now?
MR. MESSINA: Has been, always.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Was there a switch? What was the switch
recently with that? It that a funding source switch? No, same thing?
MR. MESSINA: Yeah, the only thing different with RSVP is we weren't able to
hold the large events that we normally held. That was it.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Because I went to the last, I think it
was at the Nani Mau, and it was a really nice event. But I remember them saying
this is the last time we're going to do this. I was trying toI couldn't remember
exactly why that was happening.
MR. MESSINA: No, we want to continue the program. The only thing that was
different during COVID is we just weren't able to have the get together, so we
sent them care packages and gifts instead.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I really like activity—I like that
idea, because it helps our kupuna kind of come in and still participate. And I love
talking with them. Before I was a County official,just walking in, there's always
someone to talk to. They more than just want to talk; and then they can give you
directions, but I always appreciate that about them.
MR. MESSINA: Yeah, I believe the last couple of times we were there, we said
that their contributions, if you put it out in minimum wage, it comes out to about
$1 million.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Oh, it's huge.
MR. MESSINA: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It's helpful for us, but I think it kind of
goes both ways. So, okay.
MR. MESSINA: We miss having them around.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Coordinated Service Program Income, so
you get one vehicle purchase in there, is that right? Department 481.
MR. SEWAKE: Yeah, for our Coordinated Services, we could budget vehicles in
program income, in the hopes we can purchase a vehicle.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I like that, "in the hopes."
MR. SEWAKE: Yeah. We've put in a request. But yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Any other supplemental request that are
big that you're asking for? Or ones that really—is like your top three, what would
it be?
MR. MESSINA: So if you look at our supplemental request, our number one is
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We didn't get it.
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MR. MESSINA: Is what?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We didn't get any supplemental request.
MR. MESSINA: So our number one supplemental request is a Zoo Park
Caretaker I position.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That was a mouthful. It doesn't seem like
it, but that was. Try say it again.
MR. MESSINA: Zoo Park Caretaker position. The reason for that is we—with
this ADA project, one of the things that we have at our zoo now is a lot of
concrete, a lot of new walkway spaces. This is a rainforest zoo, so it gets dirty, it
gets green, and so we're asking for, you know, in our supplement we're asking for
that position to assist with park clean-up. We have only have one position there
right now as park caretaker at the zoo.
The next one ison our number two on our list is Parks Project Manager for
administration. During thisoh, we're asking to basically fund it. During these
ADA projects, we're seeing that—like right now there's a lot of projects that we
had to put on the backburner because we needed to concentrate heavily on these.
And as times like this, where we seek for a position like that, we heavily, heavily
need it.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. MESSINA: And our third one is an Information and Education Specialist
for our administration. Right now, we don't have a person in our department that
can run our internet, that can run our websites, that can help each one of our
divisions getting the word out. Almost like a, yeah PIO (Public Information
Officer)position. And we don't have that right now. And so it's fallen as extra
duties for everyone else who already has a lot on their plate. So those our top
three that we would be looking at.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then, Deanna,just remind me,
Council cannot create positions, right? Only the Mayor can do that? Okay. And
the Mayor is aware of what you asked for?
MR. MESSINA: Yes, they've seen our supplemental.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Beautiful. Thank you. Okay, that is all the
questions I had. Thank you very much. Unless there's any follow-up from the
Council Members?
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MR. MESSINA: Appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you all.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Council Members, do we need a recess? Okay, we're going to take a just give
everybody five minutes. See you guys back here 3:10 p.m.
Recess: At 3:05 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 3:15 p.m.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Aloha, welcome back. We're back
from recess. Thank you for your patience. We're going to go, before we take
Office of Housing. Thank you for your patience, Ms. Kunz, we're going to have
Lee Lord and Talmadge Magno come up and talk about the unfolding situation at
the West Hawaii-Kona airports. Mr. Lord, thank you for coming back.
(Note: At this time, Managing Director Lee Lord and Civil Defense
Administrator Talmadge Magno came forward to address the members of
the Committee.)
COVID MR. LORD: Thank you, Mr. Chair. You had a question and it dealt with the cost
Testing Briefing: of our airport testing. So when I share this number, it's for the three airports
(Continued) including Waimea. Currently, we're in an agreement where we're paying
$35,000 a day for an agreement that's between April 15'h and April 30'', which
comes out to $508,200. Currently, we're using disaster funds. We're not sure
when the federal money comes down, if we're able to replace those disaster funds
so we're using them very judiciously.
The decision as you've heard before, if we're going to continue after April 30'',
depends of course on—and I said the Governor's proclamation which is part of it,
but it's more about the Department of Health and their plan for airport testing
interisland and mainland also, and what that Department of Health decision comes
down to and we find that out.
It also, of course, depends on the federal funds and what rules come with those as
it comes down through the State. We don't know those rules at all at this point
and time and how we're going to be able to use that, and it depends on where our
budget is at that point in time. And that will be all, you know, that Mr. Roth uses
to base his decision on.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So, again, $35,000 a day.
MR. LORD: Correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Three airports: Hilo, Waimea, Kona.
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MR. LORD: Correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Is there a current bill for services rendered?
MR. LORD: Well, we're working under a contract right now. So between
April 15'h and April 30'', we'll owe $508,200.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow, okay. And then you said that the
disaster
MR. LORD: We're kind of covering it. You know, Deanna works and does her
thing with Finance. Right now, we're just borrowing out of our Disaster Fund
because it is a disaster. But hopefully, we can be able to replace that money.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Council Members? Let's go to
Kona. Kona, do you have any questions or follow-up comments on that?
MS. VILLEGAS: So for confirmation yes, thank you, Chair. For confirmation
then, Mr. Lord, that$35,000 a day is the fee, not individually per airport but for
all three combined?
MR. LORD: Correct.
MS. VILLEGAS: And was the cost the same for the prior contractor?
MR. LORD: I believe the cost was a little higher for the previous contractor. I'd
have to do some research though, but I believe it was a little higher.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay.
MR. LORD: But once again, we weren't paying that bill. That was being paid by
a philanthropist and we weren't part of that contract.
MS. VILLEGAS: And is it safe to assume that that philanthropist was the owner
of Salesforce?
MR. LORD: Yes.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. My other question then comes to—it just jumped out of
my mind again. I think I need coffee. Okay. I know what it was. Just as a
question, it was my understanding that all mainland travelers who landed,
especially—well, in my understanding, in Kona, were being provided a second
test regardless of vaccination, and they had to be tested prior to leaving the
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mainland and show negative test results. But they were all being tested once
landed here.
MR. LORD: I'm going to let Civil Defense Director, Mr. Talmadge, answer that
question.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you.
MR. MAGNO: Hi. Good afternoon. There was a period, a long period, that we
ran 100 percent testing. And what happened is, as we went off of the CARES
(Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security)money and the funding
transitioned to the philanthropist and then came back to the County, as a cost
saving method because we paid per test, we reduced the percentage, which was
authorized in the Governor's ruleI mean in the Mayor's rule it specified we
could test between 25 up to 100 percent. So we took it down to 50 percent, you
know, ratio, that we decided would be able to cover and get us a good ratio of
positives that were coming in. And so we reduced it to 50 percent, when we
resumed the contract in April.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Are you aware of why the contract was changed in the
short period of time?
MR. MAGNO: Well, Premier's contract was coming up and we had other
vendors that came forward, and out of three vendors, this Basis had the lowest
rate.
MS. VILLEGAS: So the decision was made based on price even though it hadn't
been based on our RFP (Request for Proposal).
MR. MAGNO: It was done through an emergency procurement.
MS. VILLEGAS: How long has Premier had the contract for the testing prior?
Had it been for a length of time, or have all the contracts been consistently
two-week increments?
MR. MAGNO: Premier started on October 15'', when we started testing at the
airports, and I'm not sure if it went for a month's period or what it was or
maybe—I'll just leave it at that. I'm not sure if it was just for a month's period.
But because of the variables that we're looking at now with the vaccine
exemptions, the cancellation of the interisland and possibly the interisland
quarantine, the two-week period I guess afforded us some options if those
changes came down.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. I guess my question then, so if, and I'm forgetting his
name, my apologies, the philanthropist who essentially came through, we'll just
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call the owner of Salesforce then they were paying for all the testing for this
period of time. Did they just decide to stop, and now the County is footing the
bill? I guess, I'm just—I'm confused on how all of this lined up. And it just
caused a lot of lines of questions, especially when things like this happen with—it
happens so quickly and suddenly. And there are a number of people that had been
working under Premier, and then all of a sudden with not even 24 hours of notice,
they were out of a job, as a new contractor came in.
MR. LORD: So that agreement was between Premier and Salesforce, although
there have been questions as to how long they would be continuing to put those
payments out. So, there had been ongoing discussions. That's where it was at
that point and time that I knew of.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Because I remember as a Council, and perhaps some of
my colleagues might remember—when we approved the contribution from
Salesforce, it was my understanding it was just for test kits, like the kits
themselves. Like, they had bought a multitude of test kits and then donated them
to the County to be utilized at our airports, not including the actual testing and all
of the things that go into it and staffing and whatnot. So does anyone else
remember the capacity of what we approved?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I don't.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay.
MR. MAGNO: I think it might have been. I know for sure they donated masks.
But as far as testing kits, I'm not aware of that.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Okay, thank you. For now, I yield.
MR. MAGNO: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Any follow ups?
Mr. Chung, go ahead.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah. Thank you. You know, let's backtrack here. You know,
this is a State facility, right, the airports? What's our connection to this? Is it
because of the Mayor's rule that requires the post-travel testing? Is that why
we're involved in this?
MR. MAGNO: That evolution goes back to when we instituted the interisland
quarantine.
MR. CHUNG: Okay.
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MR. MAGNO: And so, you're right. I had the same questions. It's a State
facility, why are we in there?
MR. CHUNG: So we're making that requirement that's why, right?
MR. MAGNO: Yeah.
MR. CHUNG: It's our requirement.
MR. MAGNO: Yes, yes. So each island, Maui, Kauai, the islands, you know,
Oahu doesn't have any interisland quarantine. So each of the Counties has their
operation in the airport.
MR. CHUNG: So it's under the County's authority, correct?
MR. MAGNO: Yes.
MR. CHUNG: So then, how is it—I'm still not clear as to how a philanthropic
group or person has now been responsible for paying since maybe December till
now when it's under the authority of the County? I mean, it's okay if somebody
else pays, but the County still has to have some kind of involvement in this, right?
We don't just wash our hands and say, well it's up to you guys to do this. What's
the connection, is there a tri-party agreement? I just don't understand how we can
just say, "Look, it's being paid for by a philanthropic group, we don't have any
involvement in this." When we are actually involved because it's under the
County's authority that this program is being implemented. So what's going on?
I don't know if you can answer this, Talmadge. I think it's more for the Mayor's
Office.
MR. MAGNO: Actually, I can answer it.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, go ahead.
MR. MAGNO: So Salesforce stepped up and they funded Premier's operation for
testing. We maintained; the County maintained oversight under Civil Defense.
So my staff were present there to manage both the interisland screening and the
testing operations.
MR. CHUNG: So it was just with the agreement that they would pay, and we
oversee?
MR. MAGNO: Yes, yes.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. Okay. Now, is there going to be another philanthropic
group coming in to fill the void—is it Salesforce? Salesforce is leaving?
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MR. LORD: My understanding is that there's no one at this point in time coming
forward to pay.
MR. CHUNG: Because when Mitch came in to do his address, he said something
about, you know, this Administration had been responsible for, you know, getting
a philanthropic group involved in all of this; and then we went back and forth,
right, I had to withdraw my apology on that one. But this group, this is the group
that came in during Harry's term—I don't want to go there. I don't want to really
go there. Okay, I guess it's a little bit clearer. Thank you.
MR. LORD: You're welcome.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go ahead, Ms. Lee Loy. Thank you,
Mr. Chung.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, you know, and I have my staff back checking, but it was a
resolution that came before this body for the donation of masks. I think it was a
million dollars. I mean, it was a lot. But, and again, my staff is back checking.
But it was just masks, not any form of tests, testing kits, testing personnel, paying
for testing at the airport. It was just a donation of masks. And I hope that brings
some clarity to what Ms. Villegas is asking and to clarify that it had nothing to do
with testing, philanthropical dollars paying for it, and it was a donation, and we
received a million dollars in masks. Thank you.
MR. CHUNG: One more. I'm so sorry.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Go ahead, go
ahead.
MR. CHUNG: I think really this is germane to the issue of the budget. And
that's why we're trying to get at this, you know, get some answers because we
don't know. Ms. Villegas said we might be on the hook for about a million
dollars. And then you guys are disputing that. But Ms. Villegas seems to think
otherwise. And that's why we want to kind of get to the bottom of this as well as
to try to get some explanations for what kind of chaotic things are going on at the
Kona airport as well. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Council? Holeka,
Maile?
MS. DAVID: Yes, please.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go ahead, Ms. David.
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MS. DAVID: Thank you. Aloha. Okay, I think the clouds are kind of clearing
on this somewhat thanks to Mr. Chung and Ms. Lee Loy. I just have a question.
Now, the $508,200 is now being taken out of the disaster fund hoping that we get
the funds to pay it back. And that's for just this two weeks-worth, right?
MR. LORD: Correct.
MS. DAVID: So if we do not get the disaster funds, will these guys continue
their contract and will we be out then—are we not going to continue this testing,
what's the plan? And are we going to be responsible out of our own disaster fund
for the half million?
MR. LORD: Yes, the agreement with Deanna Sako in the Finance Department,
we are using disaster funds, this is a disaster issue. We're hoping that we can pay
the money back. That's why we, at this point, only have a two-week contract. As
stated, we have to see what the Department of Health is going to do, if they are
going to take over testing, which that has been talked about. Also, we need to see
what rules come down with the federal money. All the different pots coming in,
if we can use that to replace that money in the Disaster Fund and also where we
are with our County funds.
MS. DAVID: Okay. So at this point and time until two weeks from now, or the
end of the month, we won't know whether we are going to continue this because
of all the other things that you have to find out about first, right?
MR. LORD: Correct. That would be a decision Mayor Roth would have to
make.
MS. DAVID: Right. And then, do we have enough money to continue this
testing in our disaster plan should the Mayor decide to continue this program?
MR. LORD: I can't answer that question, but it also raises the question, even if
we have the money, are we going to decide to spend it on that at that point in time
depending on how many people are vaccinated in our State and County at that
point in time and where we are with our travelers. So I can't answer that
question.
MS. DAVID: Okay. I appreciate that. Alright, then I guess we'll all find out in a
couple weeks. Thank you. Thank you for clarifying that.
MR. LORD: You're more than welcome.
MS. DAVID: I yield, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. David. Anyone else?
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MR. INABA: Holeka.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mr. Inaba, go ahead.
MR. INABA: When did we know that this last contract or agreement was going
to end?
MR. LORD: You mean the agreement between Salesforce and Premier?
MR. INABA: The one that ended yesterday and put us on a new track today.
MR. LORD: I don't know when the final decision was made. I believe it was last
week and I wasn't here. I would have to get with Mr. Roth and ask that question.
MR. INABA: Because the last, the Seventh Supplementary Emergency
Proclamation was received by, or was sent out on April 12'', from the Mayor's
Office. So if we knew—to me it's just kind of, for lack of better words, funny
kind, if we're going to be doing another proclamation knowing that arrangements
are ending within three days, and that we only have a plan for two more weeks.
So it is concerning and I hear, you know, we are waiting on what the Department
of Health is going to do, what the State is going to do. But ultimately, I think
going back to what Council Member Chung said,we are as a County putting on
extra rules here on how we come into Hawaii County. And we definitely need to
not be waiting around like sitting ducks for the State. So can you please get back
regarding when we knew this contract was going to end? Because that, to me,
started the timeline for us to get moving on a secondary option.
MR. LORD: Sure.
MR. INABA: Thank you. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Okay. From what I
know, 32,000 people arrived in April on island, those are mainland visitors,
because I just started tracking the information. And if we're paying $35,000 a
day, obviously we're not testing everybody because those test kits are not cheap.
But one month of testing will equal up to about a million dollars. So we're going
to have to figure out a solution that's fairly quickly. What kind of funding do we
have in that Disaster Fund? Either we're going to slow testing, stop testing, or
run out of funds trying to test everybody on the way in, because the numbers are
just going up and we're coming into summer.
(Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna S. Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
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MS. SAKO: So we actually have quite a bit of money in the Disaster Fund. But
as you guys might recall, a large portion of it is a receivable from FEMA (Federal
Emergency Management Agency), so we're working to collect that receivable.
But, you know, there are other costs as well, you know, airport screening and
what not for the interisland travelers, so that's all part of the decision. We also
thought we'd have the federal money by now, but it's looking like we won't be
receiving that until June. So there's a lot of different factors going into it as well
as even what money the State's going to pass through.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So that's going to be a very tough
decision to make because we're dealing with public safety over funding
availability.
MS. SAKO: Yup.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you. I don't envy your
position, Mr. Lord. Thank you, Deanna. I think we need to move on in the
essence of time. Thank you for the discussion, gentlemen.
MR. LORD: And thank you all for all your concern. Thank you.
(4) Office of Housing and Community Development:
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Okay, Ms. Kunz, if you could
lead us off with Housing. Thank you for your patience.
(Note: At this time, Housing Administrator Susan Kunz came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So the computer on the right is the
PowerPoint presentation computer. The one in the middle, to your left is the
Zoom participation, one is so you can see the guys from Kona, on your computer
to your far left. And then go ahead and introduce yourself, your staff if you want
to and we'll go from there and on to your presentation. Then we'll ask questions
at the end.
MS. KUNZ: Okay, great. Thank you very much.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, ma'am.
MS. KUNZ: Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Susan Kunz. I am the
Housing Administrator for the Office of Housing and Community Development.
I do have a few of my staff here with me today just to help me answer some
questions if you guys have questions that I don't know the answers to. So
Christine Nguyen is my accountant. And I have Desiree Moore, who is the
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Division Manager for our Existing Housing Division. Royce Shiroma, heads our
Grants Management Division. And Sharon Hirota is our Homeless Coordinator.
So thank you for the opportunity to present the proposed budgets for the Office of
Housing and Community Development(OHCD); and Kulaimano Elderly Housing
and Ouli Ekahi Housing budgets for the fiscal year ending June 30'', 2022.
These budgets include estimated revenues and appropriations of$29.7 million. It
is $1.6 million or six percent over the current year's budget. This increase to the
budget is due to anticipated increases in several programs including the Housing
Choice Voucher revenue for about$1 million, the Workforce Innovation and
Opportunity Act(WIOA) American Job Center for about$150,000. The Foster
Youth to Independence Initiative Grant for $262,000, and the Housing Trust Fund
Grant for $100,000. All of these increases are critical to providing essential
services to our community. I'd also like to point out that the $29.7 million budget
presented to you here does not include several federal housing and workforce
program funds.
The OHCD also administers an additional $9.3 million which are reflected in the
General Fund as they are appropriated. These federal fund programs include the
Community Development Block Grant or CDBG, Home Investment Partnership
Program, the Housing Trust Fund and the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity
Act funds. This would make OHCD's total budget$39 million.
It's important to point out that despite the budget increase of$1.6 million, the
General Fund subsidy or the County funds that we are requesting has decreased
by $382,000. This budget is 94 percent federally funded. Any increases in
expenditures are mostly related to meeting federal mandates, Bargaining Unit
increases and cost increases related to employee benefits. We also transferred the
Homeless Coordinator position from the Mayor's Office and are requesting six
new positions this year. Federal funding will cover more than 81 percent of the
cost for the new positions.
This budget represents our effort to meet the goals outlined in our mission
statement of providing for the development for viable communities in Hawaii
County through decent housing, suitable living environments and expanding
economic opportunities. We are committed to the efficient and successful
delivery of programs and working with our community partners to meet our
affordable housing needs. So with that, I'll answer any questions that you might
have.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Very succinct, thank you. Okay, Council,
who wants to start us off, anybody? I see a lot of no lights over in Hilo. Kona,
you got any questions?
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MR. INABA: Not at this time.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Wow, that was easy. I don't know
what to tell you. Okay, I mean, I got a couple questions.
MS. KUNZ: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Looks like, I'm looking at some of your
different revenue streams like interest earning. Interest rates are down.
MS. KUNZ: Okay.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Your interest earnings look like they're up
in some cases. I'm just checking on that just to make sure they lineup with what
we expect to see.
MS. KUNZ: Okay. Can we check on that and get back to you?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sure.
MS. KUNZ: Okay.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And it looks like you got some new
positions starting
MS. KUNZ: Excuse me.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, go ahead.
MS. KUNZ: So which line item is that?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This is the Ouli Ekahi Housing Fund. No,
no, sorry wrong page. Kulaimano, 3601, interest earning on your revenues. It's
fairly small, it's a $3,000 increase. I'm just wondering.
MS. KUNZ: I see, okay.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, the ones you've shown on the
previous pages for just Office of Housing fund were down. So I'm just checking.
MS. KUNZ: Okay.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just to come up with some questions for
you.
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MS. KUNZ: You don't have to search so hard.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, I know everyone came in today.
Looks like you had some—actually you're one of the few that came in that
increased their overtime for Office of Housing. What's that due to?
MS. KUNZ: So there's a$50,000 increase, I think, in this budget. We are
looking at potential activities for CDBG when we do our RFP. So depending on
the number of applications that come in, sometimes it requires staff to work
overtime to review. We have a very short time period to turn around the review
and make the awards. And then some of that is also attributed to the Existing
Housing Division. So to deliver programs, you know, existing housing has a lot
of new specialized vouchers that I've come before this group for, and it's required
us to have existing staff cover the workload for these new programs. So we were
anticipating a little bit of overtime with that as well.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. It's more than what you expected in
2019-2020.
MS. KUNZ: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Different from most departments,
because usually they've all cut. So it's interesting to see. Interisland travel,
mainland travel, going up?
MS. KUNZ: We're anticipating that we'll be back in business and planning for
that. You know, a lot of our programs require us to meet with our partners,
especially on Oahu, you know, the training events that I know can happen. You
know, one of the things that we've learned during COVID is that we can do a lot
of things via Zoom. But I've learned that, especially for training programs and
things like that, there's nothing like being able to meet and work with your trainer
face to face. So that's just anticipating us being able to get back together again.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Understood. You know, Laserfiche
maintenance, you maintain your own Laserfiche system versus the County?
MS. KUNZ: Yes. We have our own IT (Information Technology)person
in-house.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Repairs to homeless shelter for
$45,000?
MS. KUNZ: So, you know, we manage about 20 properties, actually. Not all of
them are homeless-related shelters. But there about 20 properties we're managing
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so we set aside monies to make sure we're preserving and maintaining those
facilities.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And that looks like it's a fairly new
expense, 2019-2020 there was $4,000 expended. So that's a huge increase. Did
you take on extra facilities? I mean I know we've done things in the community
lately.
MS. KUNZ: No, not taking on but we really should—our program really should
be auditing these facilities annually. So I really want to get us back in the routine
of doing those annual inspections. So I have new staff on board who is going to
focusing on that. I want to be able to prepare too. And you know, a lot of these
facilities are old. So it's just an anticipation of needing to do those kind of
repairs.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Looks like you've actually funded
this County landlord repair program or hope to fund it.
MS. KUNZ: Yes. I think that we're going to make an adjustment on that line
item in May. So you're going to see that number reduced. But there is still going
to be an allocation of funds there. We are hoping to focus on doing landlord
outreach. You know, one of the biggest problems in the program, being able to
spend the money and get the vouchers out is, you know, recruiting new landlords
to the program and maintaining the ones that we have. So we want to focus on
that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And we brought this up earlier.
Some landlords, actually just with a little bit of assistance, could provide more
housing.
MS. KUNZ: Correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But given their financial situation,
whatever that may be.
MS. KUNZ: Right. So it's an incentive program. I've noticed a lot of public
housing authorities are doing more and more of this, so we want to kick off
something like that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I mean we've subsidized housing in
this area fairly well.
MS. KUNZ: Yes.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So we don't want to subsidize it too much
in for the landlords because, you know, they do okay on these properties. But if
we can help create more housing through this program, good.
MS. KUNZ: Right.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, what do you plan on reducing that
by?
MS. KUNZ: So I believe that there's $125,000 on that line item. It's going down
to about$15,000.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: $15,000, wow. Where's the other
$110,000?
MS. KUNZ: We're not replacing it. So I may be utilizing—so we have a current
program that's being funded by CARES. We have a repair program that I've
spoken to some of you about. We might utilize some of the repair program as an
incentive. So I'm looking at different ways to fund that incentive but not using
County funds.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MS. KUNZ: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So you're going to apply it somewhere else
in the budget?
MS. KUNZ: Yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Or you're just taking it out completely?
MS. KUNZ: Right now I'm taking it out.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wow, okay. And then Adobe Acrobat,
30 licenses, $16,000.
MS. KUNZ: So I think that's a renewal. Christine? It's a new, okay. Yeah, that
is a new line item.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Is that one for every person?
MS. KUNZ: Half of the employees.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yearly cost.
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MS. LEE LOY: Chair, I'm sorry. It would be wise for it to be in the record. So
she would have to step up to the mic.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes,please. If you want to come up,just
state for the record. Give us your name and then, yeah.
(Note: At this time, Housing Accountant Christine Nguyen came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So just give us your name and then we'll
go back to that one more time.
MS. NGUYEN: Okay. Aloha, Christine Nguyen and I'm the Accountant for
Housing. So the Adobe Acrobat is for 30 licenses, and we actually have
60 employees in the budget for the 2021-2022 budget. So it represents for half of
the employees.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I think Ms. Kimball was touching on
there's a lot of companies going to this yearly subscription versus a one-time kind
of a shot for them. So we've seen this in a couple other departments too, where
there are substantial raises and a continuous cost going on. I don't like it, but I
understand it.
Office rent. You know, yesterday we were talking about office rent with Liquor
Control, and we found out they're paying $64,000 for just CAM (Common Area
Maintenance) fees at the Hilo Lagoon Center where their Hilo office is. I don't
know how long they've been paying that but$64,000 a month is pretty
substantial. Looking at your American Job Center One-Stop Program office rent
$60,000 expected. I just want to make sure we're shopping around and looking
for good places to rent even when we do have County facilities, you know, that
we could possibly use or co-mingle is not a good word but
MS. KUNZ: Yeah, don't use that word.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. But house, at least try and house
you by finding a cheaper place.
MS. KUNZ: I know.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I mean is $60,000 what you're shooting
for?
MS. NGUYEN: I see American Job Center, $60,000. So the rent right now is
across from the Hilo Hongwanji
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MS. KUNZ: The Hilo Hongwanji.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And I think I misspoke, it's not
$60,000 a month, it's per year.
MS. KUNZ: Yes.
MS. NGUYEN: Yes.
MS. KUNZ: And so this is the overhead for the One-Stop. And this is going to
be cost-shared amongst the partners who are going to be housed there.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MS. KUNZ: Yeah. So part of the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act
requires me to have partners, mandated partners, located physically at the site and
they have to share in the cost of this facility. So this will be happening for this
program this year.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay, that's about all the questions
that I had.
MR. INABA: I have a question, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Go ahead.
MR. INABA: Aloha. Office of Housing. Page 314, I'm just wondering, what or
how these replacement reserve accounts get created and what their purpose are?
This one is specific to Ulu Wini, which is in my district.
MS. KUNZ: So in my experience with property management, properties like this
are required to keep a reserve to pay for mostly capital improvement-type
projects. I think for this particular, we don't have—we have a property manager
at site but the Office of Housing currently holds this budget and manages the
budget for the property. So this is the annual set aside that we do for this project.
It is true though, that I do have access to repairs and maintenance funds and things
like that to help me supplement caring for the property as well.
MR. INABA: Okay, so this only can be used at Ulu Wini?
MS. KUNZ: Correct.
MR. INABA: And this money comes from where, from rent that we collected
over the last year or grants?
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MS. KUNZ: Yeah, it is from the rent that we collect.
MR. INABA: Got it. Okay, thank you. And page 317I'm sorry, I hope that
you folks have the same binder as we do, because if not only the Council knows,
that has the same book. But I also see in some of the other sections depreciation.
I mean, I know what that is, but how are we determining that and what exactly
does, for example, Kulaimano's depreciation expense go to?
MS. NGUYEN: Aloha. So the depreciation is based on the value of the asset that
we're depreciating. So basically if we have an asset whether it be the property or
equipment, we depreciate it over the life of the equipment. Does that answer your
question? So if I have a computer, for example
MR. INABA: I understand what depreciation is, but this is an expense. So, I'm
not
MS. SAKO: Mr. Inaba, can I help?
MR. INABA: Yeah, go.
MS. SAKO: So the only two Enterprise Funds that the County has is Kulaimano
and Ouli Ekahi. So those should be the only two places you're seeing
depreciation. And when we go to close the books at the end of the fiscal year, we
need an appropriation to charge the depreciation to. And so that's what that's
there for. And then it all nets out into the fund balance of the fund at the end of
the year. Does that help?
MR. INABA: So this is the amount that—or whatever was depreciated there, we
put in as an expense and then this $35,000 goes to where?
MS. SAKO: So it's just actually a general ledger entry to record the depreciation,
and it nets out into the fund balance of the fund at the end of the year. So it's
sitting in Fund Balance specifically for Kulaimano.
MR. INABA: Okay. And then for Fund Balance, it doesn't get used this year so
it's fund balance. It has to only be used in the future on Kulaimano, is that right?
MS. SAKO: Yes, that's correct. This is a self-sufficient fund, Kulaimano and
Ouli. So it goes back into the fund, to the project itself.
MR. INABA: Okay, got it. Thank you so much, Deanna.
MS. KUNZ: Thank you.
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MR. INABA: I believe that's all I have for now. Thank you, Housing staff.
Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ms. Kimball, go
ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. Please don't be offended that we don't have a lot of
questions for you. I think it's just because we see you a lot more than we see
some of the other Directors with the Housing Agency and it's also pretty
self-explanatory since it's mostly federal monies that you're dealing with and it's
basically just in and out.
MS. KUNZ: Thank you.
MS. KIMBALL: I did want to ask because we've asked the other departments, if
you guys, with the 20 facilities that you have, do you have a maintenance plan, a
maintenance and repair plan for your facilities, a timeline?
MS. KUNZ: So we do set aside funding to cover those costs, but are you talking
about like a capital needs assessment? Something like that.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, basically a needs assessment that would allow for, you
know, the planning of setting aside funds. You know, you do set aside funds for
it, but do you have a plan for which facilities you need to hit when, based on the
needs assessment?
MS. KUNZ: I understand. You know, actually I don't. For each property this is
no specific capital needs assessment plan for each one. It is something that we've
been talking about, especially for the larger facilities. I really will be focusing on
doing some of that this year and getting back to a regular annual audit of each one
of these properties because I think that has been lacking. So it is something that
we've been discussing and will be putting into effect.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, I appreciated that you mentioned renewing the audit
process. Because yeah, clearly these are important assets, if you will, and so we
want to make sure they're maintained both for the residents and for us as a
County. Again,just thank you all for your time. Thank you for being so
responsive to the requests that I've had regarding Housing.
MS. KUNZ: You're welcome.
MS. KIMBALL: I appreciate it. And I yield, Chair.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball.
Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Not really any questions. Again, you
interface with us quite a bit. Thank you, Administrator, and to your team.
Everyone's very helpful in providing information. Everything's straight forward
here. Just a comment, you know, I appreciate the work of the office, continuing
to update the Council,per Resolution 431-20, quarterly updates regarding 201-H
application filings. I think it's really important to ensure we have a pulse on what
sort of housing projects are leveraging that tool. I do hope that there is work to
sort of refine the 201-H process to make it less complicated, and do want to
continue conversations with you in exploring the establishment of some kind of
affordable housing fund. I think it's critical, because there are many projects that
are starting but just need a little bit more to get over the finish line and this fund
can serve that purpose.
You know, another thing that Res. 431-20 calls out, is putting together a
comprehensive housing strategy for our County. We have a lot of plans and
studies out there that have been done. I think it's worth it for us to take the time
and really invest, going through these plans, aligning them with our General Plan,
combining all these needs assessments and figuring out the most strategic places
to build housing. Why? That's the foundation of our County budget, our RPT
(Real Property Tax)base.
So just, you know, again, as Chair of the Housing Agency, happy to continue
working with you on these very complex but very real challenges that are very
significantly have to move the needle forward. And I think you are the right
person with your variety of expertise to really make an impact in that arena. So
thank you. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Maile or
Rebecca?
MS. VILLEGAS: No, thank you. I just, you know, we had such amazing
presentations during the Housing Agency meetings that I think we all benefited
from that, which allows us to have less questions today. So thank you for that.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Ms. David, you
have any comments?
MS. DAVID: Actually, I was just going to say the same thing. And this is quite a
recap but thank you, Housing Director, for keeping us in the loop very
substantially so we have no questions. Mahalo.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. David. One more follow
up. So that the Main Street Voucher Program is going up $138,000; $63,000 in
2019-2020. That's good.
MS. KUNZ: That is good. It's additional funding from HUD for us to address a
very specific population and that is the elderly with disabilities—for the disabled
population.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MS. KUNZ: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Wonderful. Okay, thank you for that. I
appreciate it, appreciate your guys' time today. And look forward to seeing the
final budget.
MS. KUNZ: Okay.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MS. KUNZ: Thank you very much.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much. Thanks for coming
everyone.
(5) Office of the County Auditor:
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, Council, let's get right to Office of
the County Auditor. You guys want to come up. Please introduce yourselves and
thank you for your patience. I think we're kind of on schedule today. Go ahead,
ma'am.
(Note: At this time, Acting County Auditor Maxinne Pacheco came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. PACHECO: Good afternoon, Finance Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and
members of the Hawaii County Council. My name is Maxinne Pacheco, Acting
County Auditor. And today I brought with me Michael Cordova, and we are
committed to doing our part in helping balance the budget. In doing so, we found
savings and trimmed out our out-of-state travel budget, we've moved monies to
cover our new copier, scanner, fax machine. We've set aside some monies for
contracting audits and audit studies. We've transferred our rent to Property
Management.
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Since you've last saw us, we've had a name change. We are now the Office of
the County Auditor. We have had staff turnover, new staff. Currently, we are
short staffed, and we are working on training and cross-training two new auditors.
We are very excited to welcome and work with the new County Auditor. During
the last five months, we've done our very best to maintain continuity, working
through our current audit plan. We've been working on two follow-up audits
which we will be issuing soon. And we will also have two audits in the queue.
As required by the Charter, we coordinate and monitor the Annual Financial
Audit contract. In the coming year, we will be in our fourth year of a five-year
contract with N&K CPA's, Inc. They have issued the Comprehensive Annual
Financial Audit in December 30, 2020. We expect N&K to issue the single audit
report for fiscal year ending June 30, 2020, by June. N&K will continue to work
remotely, and they will begin their audit activities looking at the County's
financial transactions for fiscal year ending June 30, 2021.
Circling back to training staff, all auditors conducting performance audits are
required by Generally Accepted Government Auditing Standards to be competent
and earn 80 hours of Continuing Professional Education, or CPE. During
COVID, our association hosted a series of virtual training to help us comply with
the CPE requirements. Our association has not yet announced if they will provide
in-person conference in May of 2022; however, if virtual training is available, we
would definitely want to take advantage of those savings.
In closing, we thank you for your support while we transition to a new County
Auditor. And we are ready to answer or clarify any questions you have.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Maxinne. Thank you for being
here today. I'll go to Council Members for any questions or concerns.
Ms. Kimball, here in Hilo.
MS. KIMBALL: Hi. Thank you, both, for being here. Just a quick question of
the contract services. This is me just asking as somebody new to this whole
process. What sort of services are you contracting? You have the two different
line items, 115 under—for Holeka, this is on page six.
MR. INABA: Thank you.
MS. KIMBALL: And then also under 5108.02so the OCE and then also
5108.15, there's the Miscellaneous Contract Services there.
MS. PACHECO: Yes. So for 5108.15, for external audit miscellaneous contract
services, that's our annual audit. We are required by the Charter. So we are
contracted with N&K CPAs, out of Honolulu. So they take care of the
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Comprehensive Annual Finance Report, as required by the Charter, and they also
do the single audit. And they will be issuing that in the coming months.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay.
MS. PACHECO: And then the difference with our Miscellaneous Contract
Services account is if we anticipate other audits that we are not able to do
ourselves, we can contract it out, audit services, we can hire a subject matter
expert.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, great. I wasn't clear that the annual audit came out of
your specific budget but that makes sense.
MS. PACHECO: It does, it does.
MS. KIMBALL: Great. Okay, that's all I had. Thank you, Chair. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Kona?
MR. INABA: Not right now.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Anyone else in
Hilo? Okay, so you touched on travel and conference.
MS. PACHECO: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I looked back to 2019-2020; $1,550
expended. I looked for your County Auditor, OCE Travel and Conferences.
MS. PACHECO: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And I looked to 2021-2022; $19,200.
What's the switch there from $1,500 to $19,000? This is your actual for
2019-2020 expenditures.
MS. PACHECO: For travel?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Not just for travel, but for all travel
conference under that line item; 104.
MS. PACHECO: So during COVID, we took a lot of webinars and most of them
were free. So we were able to save a lot of money because we weren't traveling
off-island as well. So we saved on airfare, hotel, registration fees. So we always
take advantage of free webinars.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And the reason I'm asking, COVID
started about March 2020.
MS. PACHECO: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And so most of 2019 should have been a
normal year for your office. But seeing your expenditures, let's say nine months
of expenditures was $1,500,jumping to $19,000, in 2021-2022 expected. That's
a pretty big difference.
MS. PACHECO: Our conference is normally in May. So it's at that tail end of
the fiscal year.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So you missed out on that on the
COVID-year conference?
MS. PACHECO: We did.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And you're going to see them again this
coming year, on this 2021-2022 cycle?
MS. PACHECO: If it's available.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. If not, you'll have some savings
there. And then Audit Studies and Services, is that the one you touched on,
Ms. Kimball? Okay.
MS. PACHECO: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And then the other one that stood out are
your audit contracts, fairly substantial change, again from 2019-2020. What is an
audit contract?
MS. PACHECO: So that is required by the Charter. So N&K, they take care of
the County's financial transactions, they look at all the
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, we just had that report.
MS. PACHECO: Yes. That is correct. And the prior year we had one additional
major program; the contract allows for three so they will have two additional
major programs for June 30, 2020.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Which is why you're at$290,000?
MS. PACHECO: Excuse me?
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Which is why you're forecasting
$290,000?
MS. PACHECO: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. The rest is pretty self-explanatory.
I appreciate your time today.
MS. PACHECO: Thank you for your support.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, thank you.
MS. PACHECO: Thank you. Have a great day.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You too. Okay, Council, let's give it a
ten-minute recess. I don't see our next department. Just kidding. You guys
ready? Okay, let's do a ten-minute recess then, Council.
Recess: At 4:13 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 4:25 p.m.
(6) Office of the County Clerk/Elections Division:
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, welcome back. We have the Office
of the County Clerk here, as our next departmental budget review on the Special
Committee on Finance. Mr. Jon Henricks, if you would like to lead us off?
Welcome.
(Note: At the time, County Clerk Jon Henricks and Deputy Clerk
Aaron Brown came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. HENRICKS: It's actually the Office of the County Clerk and Hawaii
County Council budget, to be clear.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
MR. HENRICKS: Jon Henricks, County Clerk.
MR. BROWN: Aaron Brown, Deputy County Clerk.
MR. HENRICKS: We also have today with us Ms. Patricia Nakamoto and
Cori Saiki, from our Elections Division in case they want to make any comments
about their budget or programs, and of course, to be available for any questions
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about our elections programs, of course they're in the best place to feel those
questions and provide complete answers.
You know, not too much presentation on our part. It's nice to go, at this point, to
where you would really be appreciative. Very brief and succinct presentation of
our budget. But we did want to make note of awe issued a communication,
numbered 103.10, which provides a good analysis of our budget. We'll not use
the SQ (status quo)word; but it is. And of course it provides a breakdown, pretty
standard for as long as I've been around this office for the most part, and provides
also a very quick analysis of changes to point those out to make it a little bit easier
to see how the budget has—our proposed budget might be different from the
current budget.
And then attached to that, taking different parts of these three budget books and
other areas: Program objectives, our goals, and our mission, and putting together
for easy use. Not just for you folks who are used to roaming from book to book,
but we recognize this as a public process and a public review of our program, too.
So if anybody out there is interested, hopefully that provided a very convenient
snapshot of our operations and how we intend to spend a significant portion of the
$4.995 million that we seek to continue on our operations here. So I'll leave it at
that, and of course we're available to answer most of your questions.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Henricks. That was a
wonderful presentation. Thank you for submitting Communication 103.10. It's
very informative. Council, any questions?
MS. VILLEGAS: Yes,please.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Villegas, go ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: Aloha, gentlemen. First off, I just want to thank both of you
for your gracious service and flexibility as we've all had to navigate this last year
in this global pandemic and the perpetually changing conditions for our meetings.
Thank you for allowing us last week to once again have all of us in the same
room, which brings me to my next question as to when we can allow testifiers to
return to chambers and not have to testify remotely. Do we have some ideas
about that?
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot. I talked to
Chair David about that, too. That will be a wonderful day. I look forward to that,
as well. I mean, it'll mean more than just that. It would mean, of course, very big
steps back to what we consider normalcy and a better future. Really, we need to
look to the Governor's proclamations as providing guidance for that. We are
really in a good place, where how we're conducting our meetings now, going
above what is required of the Governor's proclamations. But I view them, you
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know, the most recent one being issued, I think last week the 19'h supplemental,
which holds fast on how public meetings are to be held. And I view them not
only as a guideline, but a strong recommendation that we continue to be cautious
with creating public gatherings.
You know, I do recognize that some boards and commissions are holding what
would be closer to the meetings that we want to have. My concern continues to
be that with the Council, and I'm not trying to denigrate the work of any other
boards and commissions, but it can be very high profile in the issues it takes up.
And there's no expectation that the Council wouldn't take up items, that could
generate a significant amount of interest, and being able to deal with potential
crowds that, quite frankly, we would hope people would be motivated to
participate in this process when you guys are making policy on things that are
particularly interesting. That's my long way of saying, I want to see what
happens.
There's been a lot of talks about other areas of our world where, you know,
school coming back, inter-island travel changing, all of those kind of things and
how they work together and how that shapes the Governor's proclamations, and
being able to do this in a way we're you know, more than anything else, we're
not jeopardizing the public's safety by creating a forum for people to get together
and potentially infect each other. Not really trying to protect us necessarily, but
just making sure we don't create forums where, you know, the worst consequence
possible, which is bringing people in contact. That would create a health hazard.
Because we simply you know, we've tried. And I know you know this,
Ms. Villegas, and I know you've been supportive,we've tried to have people
come in and testify. Well, we did have people come in and testify in conference
rooms, to give them a greater sense of being able to come in and not have to use
technology. We really tried hard, but we were unable to create a safe space.
People just had a hard time with distancing, keeping their masks on. We've even
hired security so that we could have professionals attend to those matters. So it
wouldn't be just us staff. That we're really doing our best with that.
Our best efforts failed, so then we resorted, oh not resorted, but we turned to what
we're doing now, which has been effective in-large part, which is to have people
use technology to testify. So it's a very long way of saying, I hope soon.
MS. VILLEGAS: Great. Thank you. I really appreciate that answer, and it
helps clarify, both for myself and for the public, what the delay, or the holdup,
or—you know, we still have to abide by what's coming through from the
Governor, and then obviously, from the Mayor. But those parameters then dictate
what's possible in our circumstances.
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So I just want to thank you again. And especially with my circumstances this
week with a family emergency, I just really felt cared about and taken into
consideration, and to utilize technology and the resources available in order to
allow me to stay in close proximity of a family member to ensure their health and
well-being was going above and beyond in a capacity that was just really
gracious, and I'm deeply grateful. So, thank you again.
MR. HENRICKS: It's good to see you today. I hope that's good news on the
other front. And I'll just circle back a little bit.
MS. VILLEGAS: It is.
MR. HENRICKS: You know, I don't want this to be, as far as how we conduct
our meetings, to be something that—executive decision on my part or, you know,
our office's part. We want to make sure that we keep in communication with the
Council, what your guys' expectations are, and how you guys see the situation.
So let's just keep the, you know, feel free, reach out. Let's have talks. We can
talk with Chair David, of course. And I continue, too, but it's your meetings.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Holeka or
Maile?
MS. DAVID: Chair? Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go ahead, Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Actually, I just wanted to just say my piece about the
accommodations. I'm not sure what's in the air this week, but I'm so grateful that
I'm able to participate via Zoom today, much like an emergency kind of a thing
with a family member and a medical condition such as what Council Member
Villegas was describing. And I just want to really reiterate that your County
Clerk, Deputy, and your staff in trying to work with me and everyone and trying
to get our operations run as smoothly as possible.
And yes, it did feel really great to be in the same room with all of our colleagues
at one point. But I totally respect your input and your judgment in trying to guide
this body safely, and our constituents. And our public health and welfare is
always paramount, I know, in our discussion.
So I just wanted to say that. I don't really have anything to say about the budget
because we really didn't do much of anything different in that. So just wanted to
express that mahalo nui to all of you. I yield, Chair. Thank you.
MR. HENRICKS: You just kind of
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MR. INABA: Chair?
MR. HENRICKS: I'm sorry. If I might,just real quick. You know, I just
wanted before I forget, because we're talking about meetings. It's kind of
exciting for me to—we just posted our agendas. Our Committee meetings and
our Council meetings will be held in Kona next week, so we'll be traveling out.
We haven't done in that a long time. So that brings, at least internally for us,
some sense of, you know, being kind of back to where we were. And it's kind of
hard to think about, but it's been over a year since we've done that. So that's
significant in a lot of ways. You know, I think that gets us a little bit closer to
what Ms. Villegas was talking about. So, I just want to put that out there. So
looking forward to coming out to Kailua-Kona next week and conducting our
business out there. We got a lot of stuff on the agendas next week.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Henricks. Mr. Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. Sorry for the interruption. I just have a—well, first of
all, thank you always to the two of you for the guidance you provide us. I just had
a question regarding our audio-visual equipment in Hilo. We got some major
renovations here in Kona. I'm just wondering if that is in the works for Hilo, and
if that's included in this upcoming budget.
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, I'm going to that's a great question. I'm glad you
asked because we wouldn't have brought it up. So I'm going to ask Deputy
Brown to take that on and hopefully give you some good news.
MR. BROWN: Yeah, thank you. Great question. I thinkI want to first want to
thank all the Council Members for their patience while we completed the
renovations out in Kona. I know it took us a little longer than what we wanted,
but so far, I know our staff is very excited for what was put in there, and I hope
the Council Members are also excited about there.
I want to thank the Administration, the Department of Finance. They've been
very supportive of us as we've communicated with them that upgrading our Hilo
Chambers is a big priority for us as well. Our system is 10-plus years old, and we
want to make sure that our meetings continue to be held without disruption, and
we want to make sure the public has the best product that we can provide in terms
of access and viewing a good meeting.
So we are working on looking at also renovating the Hilo Chambers. It's kind
of in the early stages right now, but we are confident that we can move forward
with—hopefully soon with something. Of course, finding funding is always a
challenge, but I know that we've been working with Deanna. The administration,
they've been very supportive so far, so we're looking to continue that.
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MR. INABA: Thank you, Deputy Brown. Yeah, exciting to have that side come
up to speed. We're seeing black and white some days from meetings here in
Kona, but lucky we have colorful people on this Council. So, that's all I have.
Thank you for the update. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. That was a very
nice comment. Ms. Kimball, go ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. And thank you, all, for everything you do,
particularly with me and my staff, onboarding us. It felt very supportive. And I
appreciate the wealth of knowledge that you've both bring to your positions.
I had one question that was really just for understanding in terms of reading the
budget over time. I would have expected the numbers relating to Elections to
be more cyclical, and yet for 2021-2022, 2022-2023, 2023-2024, it's just the
same number. Is that really just kind of the average between the election year,
nonelection year? A placeholder or ?
MR. HENRICKS: And this is why we took the extra five minutes to make sure
that Pat Nakamoto was here to be able to address some of those issues, when it
comes to finite estimations that we have for the upcoming years, when it comes to
Elections. You know, kind of a thought of what is an election year versus what
isn't when you ? You know, in some ways it's kind of hard to do that when
your fiscal year is July 1 to June 30, but there's different components of the
Elections that, you know, don't run on anyreally, kind of an annual sense,
right? So you kind of overlap into other areas.
(Note: At this time, Elections Program Administrator Pat Nakamoto came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. NAKAMOTO: Okay, to answer your question
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah.
MS. NAKAMOTO: Okay, we do not have nonelection year anymore. Our
election years are right through. Because the fiscal year ends in July, and so what
you would consider to be the nonelection year, we're already preparing for the
election year, so we need funding in both budgets to prepare for the election.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, that makes total sense. Any changes to the budget with
respect to Elections, with the all mail-in voting, in particular?
MS. NAKAMOTO: From last election to this upcoming, the next election?
MS. KIMBALL: Yes.
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MS. NAKAMOTO: No, I think the amounts will probably remain the same. We
did receive some funding from the Legislature, so we took that into consideration.
We used a lot of that funding for some of the initial start-up costs for the
elections. So, we will not incur that cost in the next election.
MS. KIMBALL: If I remember, I believe the AVR bill is still alive. Automatic
Voter Registration bill is still alive. It was, last I checked.
MS. NAKAMOTO: Yes.
MS. KIMBALL: Any idea how that might impact your costs?
MS. NAKAMOTO: No, I think—I don't think the cost will be anything
significant. Maybe during an election year that might add to our overtime costs.
MS. KIMBALL: Because one of the claims that makes that they say, makes
sense for Automatic Voter Registration was actually—it would reduce cost
because all of that is actually people don't have to come into your office and
register.
MS. NAKAMOTO: Yeah. And even now, a large portion of our voter
registration new voter registration and our updates come into the Motor Voter
through the Motor Voter form and the Driver's License.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. Thank you, Pat. I appreciate it. This was going to come
up in the later discussion when I submitted the minutes for HSAC (Hawai`i State
Association of Counties. There was discussion in HSAC about hiring an
Executive Director position, which would initially have to be funded by an
increase in fees from that County's membership fees but would hopefully at some
point become self-funded because they go after a grant money and do fundraising
for HSAC. Any thoughts on the appropriateness of that for our County? We're
talking—if we're considering a typical Executive Director position split across the
counties, it would probably, like $15,000 a year addition to what we already pay.
Thoughts on that?
MR. HENRICKS: Well, yeah this budget does not contemplate that, obviously.
MS. KIMBALL: Right.
MR. HENRICKS: But if that is the will of the four Councils, in concert with
HSAC, determining that it would make HSAC more effective and more efficient
and whatever the proper rationales are, even if it occurred, where we weren't
able to prepare our budget in advance then we'd find a way to be able to do that.
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You know, in a transparent manner to make sure that—and I think there would
probably be some mechanisms where there might be required that there would be
some action on the Council's part,perhaps too, in an open meeting forum to
effectuate what you're talking about as far as contributions from each county to
be able to hire a position.
That's the novel idea. I don't think I've ever heard of such a thing. Not that it—
obviously,
tobviously, it can be done. But essentially, having an employee that's employed
by four different counties. So, that's interesting. I'd like to hear more about that.
That's a yeah, it's like "novel," is the best word I could use to describe that.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, this may or may not be the proper place to bring it up.
MR. HENRICKS: No, it's interesting.
MS. KIMBALL: But I bring it up so that my colleagues can think about it a little
bit. Because as you say, if it's approved by the Executive Committee, as HSAC,
then I have to bring it back up as a member of the Executive Committee of
HSAC. I'm sure what my position is on it yet and would like to get some
feedback from colleagues, and from you folks.
The last item, no one has brought it up yet, but the contingency funds. Is this the
time we discuss this? Yes, Chair is nodding. When I came into office, there were
half the contingency funds from the last budget still available. And have used
what was available for to support some of the really important programs in my
community, that we're just falling short in many cases because of COVID, or
because they stepped up during COVID and actually provided additional services.
So it has been something extremely valuable, and I'm sure that my colleagues feel
the same way. Disappointed to see it zeroed out and hoping that we can negotiate
at least to return to the levels from the last status quo, if you will, for contingency
funds. That's the only point I'd like to make on that.
MR. HENRICKS: Duly noted. I have no opposition to contingency funds.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Anyone else?
Well, I just have a couple questions. Yeah, thank you for bringing up the
Contingency Relief Funds. We were limited last year, and then they actually
dropped it, it's like to zero this coming year. It's wonderful. I think that could
use some adjustment. That's up to us.
You know, looking at DAE(District Allowance Expense), I've always wondered
about DAE. What is yourI mean, what was our expense for DAE? Because
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there are three different sections, yeah? Computer office, miscellaneous, and then
travel and conference, where we have DAE.
MR. HENRICKS: I think there is four. We have mileage, too.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Is there four? Did I miss one?
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, mileage. It's segregated out, but it's really all one pot
of fund. It's not even segregated by districts, essentially. Well, it is segregated in
the budget into different types of spending, but yeah.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: What's our actual expense on that? I
mean, I see it's kind of blocking off funds for the whole year, but—
MR.
utMR. HENRICKS: It depends. It's different for every district as far as, you know,
total usage, and then what the usage, you know, where it's directed. There's no
requirement that a certain portion be used for any particular kind of use that I'm
aware of.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah.
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, it's just there's a—not unlike contingency that we start
talking about it. Kind of the same thing. It's all in one pot, but obviously there's
an even separation divided by nine, and then it's our job to work with your staff to
make sure that no one overspends inadvertently.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, I ran through the numbers. It's
almost—if we break it down per nine Council Members, it's only about$800 a
piece, and I think I may have missed one.
MR. HENRICKS: For which?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Per month.
MR. HENRICKS: Oh, I don't think we've ever thought about it on a monthly
basis.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Because we have that monthly DAE status
report.
MR. HENRICKS: No, it'sI don't know. I mean, I don't—
CHR.
on'tCHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's how I think about it.
MR. HENRICKS: It's thereon July 1st.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I broke it down for a month. But I was
looking at, you know, 2019-2020 expenditures, it was pretty small.
MR. HENRICKS: Sure, yeah, because of no travel, right?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Travel, nothing.
MR. HENRICKS: That's a large part of it. And it's decisions, too, that each
Council Member makes about different opportunities to expend those funds that
factors into that. Yeah, please, feel free.
MR. BROWN: Just to add something small to that. I mean, the DAE is split out
into all the different objective codes throughout the OCE (Other Current
Expenses). Some of them may not even have—it may not directly say OCE in it,
but that is anI mean, excuse me, DAE. It may not say DAE in it, but that's part
of the DAE expense.
Every district has $7,500, usually for total DA. So that's something that we track
internally so that it's fair. Each district has that$7,500 that they can use within
the different object codes for expenses that they feel is proper for their district and
their staff.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so it's about$625 a piece per
month?
MR. BROWN: And like County Clerk Henricks said, it's not—we don't look at
it on a monthly basis. All the funding is there. The whole budget is there. So
you could spend most of the money upfront, if you wanted. All in the first
quarter, if you wanted. Or you could spread it out in a day, whatever. You know,
it's—all the funding is there, when the new fiscal year starts, and then it's up to
each Council Member how they want to direct those funds, within the legal limits,
of course.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay,just asking. It's nice for us to have,
but it's also not, you know, not necessary for us to live. At least not at that level.
That's how I feel, personally.
MR. BROWN: You're not required to spend it all. So if any Council Member
felt like they wanted to leave some for Fund Balance, I'm sure Deanna would be
very happy with that, as well.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Elections, yeah, I'm not really
going to dig into Elections at all. I think main thing we have enough funding
there, and I trust Ms. Nakamoto to know how to lay this out, and Jon.
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MR. HENRICKS: Well, we'll say we learned a lot. I know Pat did learn a lot.
First elections by mail. We'll learn more, too. You don't learn from one time
doing something, as far as budgeting goes. Not just budgeting, but programs. But
I might be remiss if I didn't say that, you know, really proud of the Elections
Department, especially in a midst of a pandemic, too. Well, you know, fortunate
in some ways that it was a vote by mail. We didn't have to institute it like some
states and counties. We were that the Legislature had the foresight is amazing
that they saw the pandemic coming.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's a nice compliment.
MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, since you brought it up, and you've asked some
questions. And obviously, especially the general—the turnout, lots of voters,
85,000 roughly, I believe. So a learning process, not just budgeting but program.
But I'm very confident having what I would deem to be a successful election n
those conditions and preparing obviously for the next one. As Pat said, there's
not really election years anymore, especially with this process.
But we do have a lot of infrastructure in place now, that we hopefully won't have
to budget for in upcoming years; that will hopefully draw some of the expenses
down, which I understand to be part of the point of doing elections by mail. Just
part, though. Because I don't think want to look at Elections as something where
you want to try to save a lot of money. That's not the primary purpose of
elections by mail. It's outreach, its accessibility, and equity for voters, and we
continue to look at that and see how we can. Even improve upon, possibly, what
was a really impressive turnout.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I agree. It's not something I really want to
dig, so I don't want to dig into it too much.
MR. HENRICKS: Gotcha. Good shape.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Probably shouldn't touch that. Last
question. You know, we have some of our outlying offices, Waimea and Pahoa
really, so our only two outlying offices. But we have our yearly charges for the
rent, electricity, water, that kind of thing. I mean,we haven't really used them
since COVID started.
MR. HENRICKS: Well, Waimea is staffed every day.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sorry, is it staffed every day?
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Richards has staff out there, yeah, that I understand to
be you know, it's a fully-functional office that he operates out of Waimea.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I wasn't aware of that.
MR. HENRICKS: And then for Pahoa, we're paying like base charges on power,
water, things of that nature. The minimal charges that are required to stay hooked
up if you will.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. HENRICKS: And I know Ms. Kierkiewicz has talked about—you know, I
think even recently, when Prosecutor Waltjen was here, about different types of
ways to utilize that space in the community. And then, you know, it was a good
location for a testimony courtesy site.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It was. It's just we haven't used.
MR. HENRICKS: And I know that we had some people calling that were
long-time testifiers that I truly appreciate, that miss it. So hopefully that can be
we're folding into those plans again as we open up, assuming that the Council
would like to see those courtesy sites reactivated.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. Okay, that's all the
questions I had. Anyone else? Okay, well thank you for being here today.
Appreciate your time.
MR. HENRICKS: Pleasure.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Kona, sorry, any follow-up questions?
MR. INABA: A`ole, we're good. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. Thank you for being
here.
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Elections Office, mahalo. And do we need
a recess before we go to the next meeting, or are we okay? Let's go. Okay, so
let's take DEM (Department of Environmental Management). Okay, this is our
last one for tonight.
7) Department of Environmental Management:
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for being here. This is
Department of Environmental Management(DEM), and I believe you have a
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PowerPoint presentation. Please introduce yourself for the record as well all of
your staff that are here so you can give them the mahalo for being—so go ahead,
Mr. Mansour.
(Note: At this time, Environmental Management Director Ramzi Mansour
and Deputy Director Brenda Iokepa-Moses came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
MR. MANSOUR: Aloha, Chairman Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and Committee
members. My name is Ramzi Mansour. I'm the Director for DEM, and I have
here my staff, Brenda.
MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Thanks for having me. Brenda Iokepa-Moses, Deputy
Director.
MR. MANSOUR: And I've got my Business Manager, Robin Bauman; my
Division Chief for the Solid Waste, Greg Goodale; and for the Wastewater, Dora
Beck. And I just want to thank and acknowledge each one of them. I know
Brenda's been busy trying to get us grants and loans for our projects. So if you
haven't seen her before now, you get to see her. She'll probably go back to her
black hole, try to get us money. But thank you for giving us the opportunity today
to go over our budget.
(Note: At this time, Mr. Mansour provided a PowerPoint presentation to
the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation,
please see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's
Office or by navigating to the Council's video archives online in the
County's webpages at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A hard copy of the
presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 103.12.)
MR. MANSOUR: Mahalo, and I open it for questions.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Director. Who would like to
go first? Anyone? Anyone in Kona?
MS. VILLEGAS: Yes,please.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Villegas, go ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: Sure. Aloha, Ramzi. Thank you for being here and thank you
especially for all the time that you have dedicated to having conversations with
myself and different members of the community and different organizations that
are passionate about improving the way that we manage our waste, both liquid
and solid.
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I just had a couple of questions because this came up recently with some people
who are hopeful to get the south side of Alii Drive off of cesspools and transition
to sewer lines. You know, now it seems like the old school option, although it's
still pretty new school, is the Sewer Improvement District. And I guess I am
looking for an answer as weI mean, we've talked extensively about essentially
the billions of dollars that it would take to get our waste management facilities
into the 21" Century, and one of the avenues talked about is an Enterprise Fund.
And I wondered then, if as you're visioning the budget for DEM and for the
capacity of us to yield to actually execute projects, if you would lean more in the
direction of a sewer Improvement District, or are you looking for something for
like the whole County, like an Enterprise Fund?
MR. MANSOUR: That is a good question. At this time, we you're right, we
need to analyze it and look at it. It could be a sewer assessment district,
established to offset the cost through the users, or it could be through a sewer
impact fees. We need to analyze each option and look at each option and look at
the pros and cons, and hopefully when we get there, we could be able to present it
to the commission and to the Environmental Committee and eventually it will be
coming in front of Council. But like I said, right now it's trying to lay out the
plan; trying to figure out how many connected, how many are not connected, how
are we to go about controlling the whole overview planning of how we're going
to get there, and what's the best option, because it could be multiple options out
there. And without looking at each one of them and evaluating each one of them
individually and outlying the pros and cons, it's hard to give you an answer now
without having that to be looked at.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, I understand. So both are potential avenues to be more
thoroughly explored before determining the best course of action.
Also, kind of lumped in there, I see the Energy Saving Performance contract, and
working with partners to get inexpensive funding in order to upgrade our facilities
to be more sustainable. One of the data points or the numbers that I remember
Riley mentioning was that if we transitioned our Kealakehe Wastewater
Treatment facility off of fossil fuels (inaudible) energy production and transition
to solar, we could save our County $1 million a year just in that one facility
transitioning off of fossil fuels. So if we can find partners to help us work on
those solar projects, over time we'll be saving money and then eventually
operating off of the sun.
I guess two of my other questions, because they have been big issues for a lot of
people, are the recycling programs and composting. And as we enter this new
year, and I apologize I don't have the line item before me, but I'm wondering
where the monies that were prior allocated and set aside and had been kind of in
the que for the composting, the industrial composting facility that was going into
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Hilo. Are those just kind of still sitting in a line item, waiting for next course of
action?
MR. MANSOUR: I believe you are talking about the money that we had secured
through bond. It was the $10 million, right? Is that the question about—for the
composting?
MS. VILLEGAS: I believe so, yeah.
MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, my understanding probably I could refer to the
Finance Department, but my understanding is, the money is still there.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay.
MR. MANSOUR: Because we have not moved forward with the selection of
either side, either the west side or the east side. But my understanding, that
$10 million is still within Finance, yes.
MS. VILLEGAS: Great. Do you see the potential as you look to this new year
and having that kind of money for a project like that to potentially—instead of
doing something so big in one location and potentially breaking down. I mean,
there are so many incredibly technologies out there for composting facilities that
it may behoove our County to have a number of sites instead of just one, where
everything has to be trucked to.
MR. MANSOUR: That's a great comment you bring, and you're right. We're
not looking at just one side because there's just so much distance between the east
and west, so we are looking at the potential of having the west side compost and
the east side. And we're looking at different vehicles, how to get there. But yes,
this is one of our priorities, is to look at the compost and start talking to the
current contractor and figure out what is the best option to move forward in that
particular area of composting.
Definitely, both sides have unique weather conditions. The west side is probably
more favorable because you could do it outdoors because of the sun. If we do it
here on the east side, it's going to require in-vessel composting, because of the
amount of rain we get. So yes, they're both doable and they both are being
considered.
MS. VILLEGAS: Alright, thank you. I appreciate your answer to that. And then
when it comes to recycling, I guess it kind of all falls into the vein. Something
I've appreciated about your leadership in the last few months in the Department
of Environmental Management is thinking outside the box.
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And I look at other—similar island nations or provinces, but they look at their
waste as a resource; not to be just thrown away, but once again tying into a
circular economy. How our waste should actually be a commodity in some
capacity. So figuring out how to turn that into a commodity and create micro
economies here on our island for reutilizing our plastics and our glass, and our
paper, and our cardboard. And keeping things on island instead of shipping them
thousands of miles away where they become waste in several countries and a
burden to other communities. So do you see avenues, and do you have the
adequate funding necessary to support that kind of forward thinking?
MR. MANSOUR: Definitely. This isI want to thank Mayor Roth's
administration, because if you recall during his summit back in March, talking
about being sustainable as an island, and trying utilize our resource and make the
best out of it. And definitely, this is one of the top things that we're looking at.
How are we going to be sustainable, how we're going to be self-sufficient, and
how are we going to move forward? So all of these is being looked at.
I've been—you know, me and my Division Chief,we've been working even with
our recycling crew, trying to figure ways. We've been meeting with outside
stakeholders, trying to find ways to keep everything on the island and
remanufacture it here, if we can. So definitely, we need the private entity
involvement to assist us through these creative, innovative ideas because that's
probably where the funding needs to come from. Because these are things that
not usually has been done by County employees, so private entities could come up
with creative, innovative ideas of taking the plastic. We have two recycling
companies here. Atlas is one of them, and Mr. K's, and definitely in teaming up
with them and trying to expand that. That's our goal and our intent.
MS. VILLEGAS: Fantastic. Yeah, the Sustainability Summit was great, and it
had a really broad kind of umbrella, style, ideas. And a lot of things had been
talked about for decades now, depending on the circles that you're in. So I really
look forward to, in this next year, for us to be able to identify specific projects and
things that we're going to get our hands dirty, take a chance on, and actually start
to implement in order to really start making those changes.
You know, we got a new bed this weekend, and thankfully a family member is
taking our old bed. But when we were talking to the gentleman at the mattress
store, he also had lived and sold beds in California. And he was baffled that we
don't—and in California they recycle every single part of every mattress. Like, it
gets taken apart and reutilized. It kind of confounded him that we don't have that
capacity here. Even as I got a new mattress and was pulling all the plastic off of
it—as some of you know, I do trash fashion, so it's one way of dealing with the
guilt for all of the waste generated by even my own first-world lifestyle. But it
just—it kind of sat heavy with me,just how much we produce based on what we
consume.
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Currently, there are things that can be done with it, but we have to think outside
the box and identify. And once again, I look forward to more conversations with
you about circular economy and all the different municipalities around the world
and in the country that are identifying ways in order reutilize materials instead of
putting them in our landfill.
So thank you for your time and attention, and your gracious patience with us and
with our community as we navigate this together. With that, I yield.
MR. MANSOUR: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Maile, do you
wanted to add to the conversation?
MS. DAVID: Yes, thank you, Chair. Thank you, Director and Ms. Moses, for
being here today. Funding-wise, what is the status of the progress on Na`alehu
Sewage Treatment Plant and Pahala's?
MR. MANSOUR: We are working on it. We're moving forward. We are
negotiating with the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency). Still with working
with the EPA. There's a few challenges that came up during the new technical
study that we are trying to achieve, better understanding on them. I believe we
probably Finance could give you a better idea on where we are at on the funding.
I believe we have State Revolving Fund that plan to fund these two projects.
MS. DAVID: Is Deanna there?
(Note: At this time, Environmental Management Business Manager
Robin Bauman came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. BAUMAN: Hi. I'm Robin Bauman, Business Manager. I believe we are
still pursuing SRF (State Revolving Funds) funding for construction. You know,
SRF has been going through some changes with the program and have recently
indicated that they will no longer intend to fund design work, so that is something
we'll be working with Finance to pursue other funds for the design on that. But
hopefully construction can at least be partially funded through the SRF program.
MS. DAVID: I see. Did I recall correctly, about having also grant monies
available, too, in the entire mix of that?
MS. BAUMAN: We do have a grant from the EPA for approximately
$1.8 million, which is designated for the Pahala project.
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MS. DAVID: And estimated time? I'm getting questions about the estimated
projected start date for both projects.
MR. MANSOUR: Well, we fall under the current Administrative Order of
Consent, and due to the lava tube discoveries within that Geotechnical report, we
have requested for extension. So we're working on that to establish a new
timeline because of the new discoveries as part of the Geotechnical report. I
guess during the initial preliminary engineering report, they did not have that data
and Geotechnical's report is being finalized as we speak. We haven't seen it
ourselves, but the consultant had informed us of the potential lava tube
challenges.
MS. DAVID: Do you know if given that discovery of the lava tube, or that affect
the cost in any way?
MR. MANSOUR: Oh yeah, definitely. They already, I think, changed their
estimate from $14.3 million just for the treatment to $20.4 million. They added
$5-plus million just to design for a concrete bridge over the lava tube to kind of
hold the lagoon. But that could not address the cost during excavation because
we could have potentially, end up costing us 10-plus more percent from the entire
cost as a change order. Because once you start excavating and you start chasing
these lava tubes because if they're unstable then you have to continue
excavating to get to a level of stability to be able to build that structure.
So it may be—and that's what we talk—and actually there's a meeting tomorrow
with EPA to discuss these findings, and hopefully we'll have the opportunity to
re-evaluate the options that are already being evaluated.
MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: And I think, Maile, I think we want to keep this kind of
close to our vest right now. We're in discovery state, so we're in a very sensitive
discussion with EPA. So at this point, I think we've done lots and lots of savings
from where it was. But we're in active negotiations with EPA, so we kind of
want to keep it right here so we have a chance to work through this without
everything going out into the community, and then we have to go back and
readdress.
MS. DAVID: So basically, my question yes, basically my question was about
the funding and how we are—where we are in that, and direct—
MS.
irectMS. BAUMAN: I think we have it set aside because we had anticipated a larger
number, and we're kind of—with our different options, we've come down on that
number. So we should be fine, it's all up to our negotiations with EPA, whether
or not they accept some of the things that we're bringing in front of them.
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MR. MANSOUR: But to answer your question, yes. The construction cost could
go up due to the lava discovery.
MS. DAVID: Okay, great. I understand about the details and your position right
now in negotiation, so I appreciate that. One more question, and this is the recent
announcement about the restriction of trailers at the landfills, except for Hilo and
Kona landfills, how does that restriction affect your budget, if anything? Will it
reduce the number of truckloads having to be taken from the transfer stations or
how does that—does that affect your budget in any way?
MR. MANSOUR: The decision that was made was not based on budget. It was
based on safety. Our safety is our number one priority. And I guess these sites
were not designed to handle trailers coming in. It started as three-cubic yard
trailers to larger and larger size trailers. And these small transfer stations, the
intent was for the residential waste. And then over time it evolved. I believe the
staff analysis and the Admin Rule kind of added that back last year, you know,
based on the safety concerns and the delays that it created to other customers. So
it wasn't based on the budget. It wasI don't think it impacts the budget because
the transfer station is open there. But the idea was, you know, safety was our
number one concern.
MS. DAVID: Okay, thank you for that explanation. Because I just was
wondering how it would have affected or impacted the budget at all, so thank you
for clarifying that. Other than that, I don't have any other questions. Thank you,
Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair David. Holeka?
MR. INABA: Director Mansour, I know you've come before us a few times now.
The budget's tight, so I would just say keep on with the good work. We know
you have a lot. So we've said this before but let us know how we can help you.
Mahalo.
MR. MANSOUR: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ms. Kimball, go
ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. Thank you, Director and Deputy Director. The
first thing that keeps me up at night are bridges; and the second thing that keeps
me up is Wastewater Treatment Plants, which is probably the first thing that—
MR.
hatMR. MANSOUR: Keeps me up.
MS. KIMBALL: Keeps you up at night?
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MR. MANSOUR: Yeah.
MS. KIMBALL: Years of neglect of maintenance and repair. Areas that are
mandated by consent decree to be replaced with sewer systems. The mandate to
get rid of all of the cesspools. Millions and millions of dollars. When the Mayor
sat in front of us the other day and said, "We need billions of dollars to catch up,"
my mind automatically went to "mostly for wastewater treatment,"because we
just haven't invested in that at all.
So let me ask you first, are you building into your activities your administration
plans for regular maintenance of facilities and equipment, and some method of
prioritization of projects so that as we bring in funds, which we'll talk about in a
moment, we know exactly know where it needs to go first?
MR. MANSOUR: Yes. That is a great question. That's the same question that,
you're right, keeps me up all night. It's kind of—you know, it is unfortunate.
You're right, our system now, it's becoming hard to actually set a priority because
they all become an emergency. I had a meeting today with our Hilo staff, the
engineers and the operators, trying to figure out how we're going to put that plan
back together. It's beyond saving so you cannot set a priority on something that's
already gone, so you have to start all over.
So definitely, the priority, the one that has the Administrative Order of Consent,
because that potentially has a higher financial liability to the County, and the ones
that coming down the pipe through the EPA and the Department of Health, such
as the Hilo, Honoka`a, and others that just contributed to that major spill that we
just had a few weeks ago.
So to answer your question which one has a higher priority, it's the one I just—
you
ustyou know, depends on the financial liability of the Consent Order. You know,
even though it may not be number one, but because of the Consent Order, now
it's going to make it numberI mean, the Administrative Order of Consent is
going to make it number one because it's the potential of$25,000 per day
violation.
But yeah, we've got the other facility literally on the last leg. My concern,
number one right now is Hilo. So much danger about keeping it running the way
it is now.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you for your candid response. So the consent decree
covers, Pahala and Na`alehu
MR. MANSOUR: It's an Administrative Order for Consent.
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MS. KIMBALL: That just covers those two sites, right?
MR. MANSOUR: Yes.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. And let me just ask you, so $25,000 a day for a violation
of that once a week?
MR. MANSOUR: The potential if we don't meet the deadline.
MS. KIMBALL: Potential liability. What about if we have a major massive spill,
out of Hilo Wastewater Treatment Plant? What is our liability in that situation
from EPA?
MR. MANSOUR: Now, the same thing. You probably they'll issue you a
Consent Order instead of Administrative Consent, because I think they're, at a
point—hopefully, we're trying to get them back to start buying more time. But I
think they're, at a point where, you know, they're going to probably—if we have
a major spill, that's probably the route they will probably going to take.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay.
MR. MANSOUR: And that also potentially becomes $25,000 a day.
MS. KIMBALL: I just want to make sure everybody gets "this is bad."
MR. MANSOUR: It is bad.
MS. KIMBALL: This is a lot of money no matter which way you slice it. So, I'll
shift over to you, Deputy. How's the hunt going for grants and federal funding? I
know that we've brought Representative Kahele to the site. I'm sureI'm
hoping that helps, at least for the Hilo facility. But what kind of progress are we
making?
MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Ramzi dreams or has nightmares about wastewater. I'm
constantly dreaming and thinking about trying to find ways to get my hand around
all of these projects. It's just overwhelming to say the least. But I've reached out
to some of the big players. You know, USDA (United States Department of
Agriculture), we're working with grants. We're doing applications with USDA
Rural Development right now.
We have—working with FEMA, EPA grants and loans. We have Corps of
Engineers. Everyone that has bigger pockets than us, I have reached out to. And
so we are definitely working those avenues. It's just—it's right what Ramzi says,
is that, you know, unfortunately these AOCs (Administrator Orders of Consent) in
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Pahala and N5'51ehu, you know, we've only been on board for three or four
months. It feels like the pressure of decades come upon us.
They're not willing to give us any more time to find more fiscal responsible way
to do the plans out there. So we can maybe save $50 million at these sites and use
them for other sites that—to us, is actually more sensitive and more dangerous to
have consequences for our environment. Gang cesspools, we understand they are
supposed to be done with. But we also know the EA (Environmental Assessment)
has been done on that site, and that environmentally it's not comprised right at
this moment?
Yeah, it's a lot, but I am feverishly working on that. We have you know, Dora
is also very busy. But unfortunately, when you get to some point of the
application, you're going to have to lean on those guys to put the technical
information in. So, it's definitely going to be team effort. But since day one, that
and trying to get events to our communities for recycling and abandoned vehicles.
Living in Pahala, that was like a big one with me coming in the doors, there's all
these abandoned vehicles, and trying to get those cleaned up.
That's the fun part of my job. So whenever I needed moment of relief from this, I
think let's get these events going on in our communities to get some of these
communities cleaned up, and beautification events. So yeah, definitely working
100 percent since day one, coming in hot in the door. On my resume, that USDA,
they really brought up and used it.
So we are working as a team to get as many—our hands into as many pockets as
we can so we can really make an impact. County can't do it by themselves; our
County budget cannot, so we're going to have to really reach out.
MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, and we have to be creative because, like I said, Brenda,
you know, the first day we interviewed her for the position, it's just because she
comes in with that much knowledge to help our department secure funding. But
there's no guarantees yet. We're still going to try and figure how I could, as a
responsible department head how could I provide safety to my staff and yet
protect the environment with what we got? It's unfortunate what we got.
MS. KIMBALL: I think we all appreciate that you're walking into a situation that
has been neglected for a while. And I don't—don't answer this if you can't
because I know you're negotiating with EPA right now, as you said. Are there
opportunities for us to buy ourselves a little bit more time for that to create by
suggesting a more comprehensive wastewater management strategy, that maybe
includes some of these other sites?
MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Well, we definitely—luckily Ramzi has—we definitely
have brought up different options that are a lot more fiscally responsible that the
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impact is the same. It's just that we're kind of stuck in this time that has passed
by, where the patience has run thin from EPA, and we understand that. We totally
understand that, but we never had the innovative mind that we have here at the
table now. And so we're trying to say, listen, let us prove that we can do this.
Also what we don't want to do, is we don't want to set an example of this
expensive community that we're developing, when we know we have 50,000
more cesspools we've got to eventually take care of. And there's no way that
could ever happen to another community besides this one. So why not use this
one as an example? You know, get the sewage treatment plant up into this
community, and get it done in a fiscally responsible way.
So those are all the things that we are working with and trying to beg for more
time. But also, the technical—Geotechnical information just got into our hands. I
mean, we don't even have a report. We just have a verbal confirmation that the
new discovery of these lava tubes, that will also deviate the initial plans
feasibility. So I want to say I'm hopeful. It's really up to how much they're
willing to bend for us and believe in the new team that's here and that we're going
to make it happen.
MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, hopefully there's always hope. It's about building
credibility of the team that you're working with. And definitelyI think
April 2020 we had a spill. We had a spill just a few months ago. So we're going
to learn, and hopefully something comes out of it. But yes, we are hoping we get
somewhere.
MS. KIMBALL: Well, I do appreciate that we're elevating the attention,
particularly the public attention to this issue because it's not something that
people want to deal with on a regular basis. Is Council Member Richards, I
presume, helping you with the negotiations? I know he's expressed an interest in
this.
MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, it's the staff level been working with the EPA,
and I think the last meeting we had, it was just kind of trying to gauge. We
haven't really dug deep yet, because we haven't yet, went over the deadline. We
still—our deadline still, you know, until July or June still, and I think at that point,
that's where I'm kind of—the hard negotiation will start. Now the idea is trying
to defuse it before we get there.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah.
MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Yeah, I think some of these deadlines that that have been
imposed you know, Hawaii is so unique, and our SHPD (State Historic
Preservation Division), you know, we have things that other places don't have.
You know, Hawaii is so unique in the restrictions that we have to our `aina. We
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have SHPD and other regulatory the time limits are out of our control. We
had
MS. KIMBALL: Lava tubes.
MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: We had a delay of nine months just to get SHPD
onboard. So those delays are out of our control.
Geotechnical, you know, we're supposed to have our acquisition of our parcel by
June 28 of this year with Kamehameha Schools, but really, do you force that
purchase when we don't know the Geotechnical information? whether this
property is going to be suitable for this project? So a lot of these deadlines were
set and out of our control. Even if we wanted to go through with the original
plan, we don't have Geotechnical. We had to wait for SHPD. There are a lot of
things that were out of our control. So we're trying to convey that. You know,
the Mayor is onboard. We've had talks with EPA. We basically had talks with
EPA,probably every other week. Just trying to convey that we are moving
forward.
We are doing everything we can. It's not being kicked down the road. We're just
trying to make that we're doing something very fiscally responsible for our
community and the State of Hawaii; because guess what, it's not just going to be
the community of Pahala paying for this, it's going to be the County of Hawaii
and all of the taxpayers. So, we have to be thoughtful of that process.
And do you want to force us to buy a piece of land we don't know if it's going to
be suitable, until that Geotechnical information is in our hands? So all of those
points, believe me, we've communicated them toI'm just hoping that they will
come around and say, "Okay, a new Administration, new information, let's give
them another shot," and that's what we're hoping for. So there may be a time we
will need your support, when that communication kind of comes to that point; but
right now, we're kind of handling in-house.
MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, it's just we need to revisit the timelines. A good
example for the construction, they've given us like 18 months to finish
construction. There's no way you could finish, especially when you live on the
island.
MS. KIMBALL: No.
MR. MANSOUR: You know, Region 9 in the Bay Area of California, yeah,
maybe you could finish construction in 18 months; but living on the island,
building a treatment plant for 18 months, no way. And that's what we're trying to
communicate with them. So hopefully just keep the hope up.
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MS. KIMBALL: I will. I mean, I appreciate that you guys are working very hard
on this. Yeah, we are—it is an unusual situation. I can also, on the flipside,
understand why the trust has worn thin over time. And I hope that you guys will
be successful, I truly do. Because what I hate to do is see us spend good money in
ways that don't make sense. Like you said, all in a property that we don't have
Geotechnical for. Like, that doesn't make sense. Let's not do that.
MR. MANSOUR: Well, this is our challenge. I'm trying to take what we got and
stretch it as much as we can.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah.
MR. MANSOUR: I'm working with our Business Manager Robin, in trying to
figure out why everything costs so much here. I was giving her an example for a
digester I finished in California just three years ago. It cost me $298,000 to
design. Here on the island, they charge $3 million to design, a factor of thousand,
which is insane. So we need to figure out why the cost difference? What's
creating that? And it's the same company. It's kind of ironic, you know, and
look at the difference cost. So why are we wasting so much money? Could we
find a way to stretch it? Could find a way to reduce it? And that's everyday
discussion with my staff. We're trying to stretch the dollar so we could do more.
MS. KIMBALL: That's sort of a markup it makes it even more important that we
use it correctly. And I'm very interested to find out what you may learn about
why there's such a significant cost difference doing it.
MR. MANSOUR: Right.
MS. KIMBALL: We know it costs more to do things here, but that seems
remarkably high.
MR. MANSOUR: When I was in the City and County of Honolulu, digester
just before I left, Waimanalo had two digester replacements, and it was almost
$20 million apiece. You do them in California for$5 million. So why that
$15 million difference? It's the same product; it's the same consultant. I mean,
we need to get to the bottom of it so we can streamline where that additional cost.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you both, my time is up. I yield, Chair. Thanks.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms. Lee Loy, go
ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Ramzi, Brenda, thank you for being here. I know
it's late in the day, and so it's so easy to feel like the wind has been taken out of
our sails, and having this very challenging conversation of what we know to be a
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very—it's a broken system, right? And last conversation we had, Ramzi, I asked
for a letter grade, and we got F, right? Failure. Imminent failure.
And so now we're looking at your budget. I've really got to say it feels
overwhelming. And Brenda's description of feeling the weight of 20 to 30 years
of not the appropriate attention given, it's heavy; and I feel it. And that you've
been reaching out to the big players, and just—you know, I've got to mahalo that.
You going swing for the fence, let's swing for the fence.
So let me start with asking, and Aaron brought this up. You know, Kai,
Congressman Kahele, had toured the facilities. He's our friend, too. And he was
shocked,just shocked. And maybe you guys could start there, on what kind of
assistance is he hoping to try and rally to help resuscitate our systems. I'm really
at a loss for words. I'm hearing we need so much help, and we don't know what
to do. So, let's just start there. You know, with Congressman Kahele, his
conversations with you and what those strategies may be, from our Congressman.
MR. MANSOUR: Yes, definitely. The conversation went well, and we're going
to continue in touch with them, hopefully through Joe Biden's Administration,
that maybe he could reach out to, and turn around and bring it to our island. That
would be very, very helpful. He knows the situation, and hopefully he could start
seeking through the Federal grants and money that he could put his hand on.
So we're not going to stop. We're going to continue to requesting for his
assistance for money that the new Administration and the Biden office is willing
to share with us. We asked him if he could reach also to the higher office of the
EPA. And asked him to work with us to resolve and understand priorities so we
could start concentrating and putting the money where it need to go. So we're
working on that. We're not going to give up.
I'm trying to tilt every rock in the sea, the solution underneath it, and hopefully
we get somewhere. We're going definitely Hilo is my number one priority, for
safeties of my staff. I meet with them; I tell my Division Chief to make sure that
certain things they need to do and not to do, to avoid major mishaps. They're
running out of options. We got sludge coming in every day. We don't have a
way to handle to it. It's risky, risky.
MS. LEE LOY: I've got to say this, my tour of that facility, recognizing all the
failures there, was eye-opening. But your tribe, those workers down there, they
show up as their best self every single day wanting to do the hard work. You
know, I just really mahalo them. I mean, they really do demonstrate true grit
down there.
MR. MANSOUR: Yes.
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MS. LEE LOY: Okay, so kind of back to the budget. You're asking for some
new Wastewater Division positions. I just want to hear how does bringing those
positions in really kind of move us from F to D or C? Tell me how that works?
MR. MANSOUR: Some of these positions, we bring them in for programs that
we should have had back in 2008, so they may help us to get a grade A into the
programs, that we're supposed to have. What's going to bring us from the letter F
to a C or better? It's funny how you said it today now, because that's the same
strategy I used on my staff today. I said, listen, how are we going to bring it to
the letter A or A+, not a C?
But definitely, we need to get there, and the way to get it is we need to start fresh
with a new facility because now it's beyond fixing. And once we get it, we're
going to have a maintenance program. That was my Division Chief's goals that I
set for her and the staff, is we need to haveoh, and then manuals. We need to
have standard procedures. We need to create an accountability program. You've
seen them. Our guys carry the ownership of their projects. But they need that
support, and they need the funding support so that they could do what they need
to do on daily activities.
So all of that needs to be put together and need to be implemented and need to
have preventative maintenance in place, because right now it's too late to go
and see of what we've got. You've seen it. I mean, things were collapsing,
people are afraid to walk on it. I mean, but I've given the kudos because they
went inside that tunnel, and they put sandbags, and risk their lives. So that's why
I cannot sleep at night, because of the safety concern, it's very serious.
But we need to start with something, a new sleigh, and build on it to get to the
level A, A+that we need.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and you know, it's hard to acknowledge, right? It's hard
to acknowledge we have an F, but we're going to work our way up, so that's a
plan.
So what I'm hearing is resources, right? Funding, we're going to leverage
everything that we have. Use whatever partners we have out there to start
building a new facility, and we're going to couple that with some employees,
using you know, starting fresh, but creating all the different repair and
maintenance. Timings, right?
MR. MANSOUR: Right.
MS. LEE LOY: We're going to get it right after that.
MR. MANSOUR: We're going to do that.
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MS. LEE LOY: And then after that, you also have an Asset Management System
in the budget. How does that fit in this plan with resources, employees? Tell me
how they're going to work that in?
MR. MANSOUR: The good thing about the Asset Management Program, we got
funding for that. I believe we received $600,000 in funding for that program.
And the Asset Management Program, it's like the motherboard in the computer,
so it kind of identifies critical items within the facility. So you could set up your
whole facility based on all the components that run the facility based on the year
it was installed, the years you know, the lifespan of that facility, the work order
that it's going to be done, and it needs to be implemented.
Let's say a motor would go out, then the operator will put it in the Asset
Management, and it sends the work order to the superintendent and says, "It's out,
we need to fix it." That's where the accountability comes in, because now you
could chase and try the follow the process, where did it go wrong, and why did we
let it sit for a year before we replaced it? So that's what the Asset Management
does to this, actually become that accountability program for the entire County.
And we need to have that so we could become responsible and accountable to
make sure thing's not falling apart.
MS. LEE LOY: Great. Yeah, we've got to do something. Earlier we heard
Police and Fire, it's a mandate by our Charter, right? This is another department
that's mandated by our Charter that we manage. We provide resources for this
because it's mandated to us by our Charter to manage our waste, both solid and
water.
Yeah, we've got to figure this one out. We really,really do. I don't know the
answers, but it sounds like it has to start with resources and funding, so let's go
turn over every rock and see where we can get with that. Chair, I yield. But
Ramzi, Brenda, thank you so much. It's late, but this is a tough one. So thank
you for being here.
MR. MANSOUR: Thank you. And I think it is tough, but I guarantee you, I've
got 100 percent confidence that we're going to get there. I've been there. I know
the process. I know the system. We'll work together and get you there.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Chung, go
ahead.
MR. CHUNG: Good evening, Ramzi, Brenda. I wanted to thank Rebecca for
bringing up the matter of the composting facility and thank you for that answer.
The members of the Council may have different views of how this thing will or
should look when it's completed, but I think from what I gather, we do feel that
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something needs to be done in that regard, and it is an important project. Greg,
we've been working together on this thing for a long time. You know, hopefully
during this Administration, we can see something come to fruition.
And also, touching upon what Ms. Lee Loy said, thank you for giving that tour of
the wastewater facility to Congressman Kahele, right? Hopefully, it will go a
long way in getting us some share of that anticipated infrastructure funding that
we hope for to be coming down the pipe.
You know, when Mayor Roth was here and gave his address, he talked about how
years of neglect have led to us being billions of dollars behind. The first thing
that came to our minds was of course the Wastewater Facilities, because you
made that very clear to us with your very graphic and educational presentation.
But at the same time, he came up you know, I pointed out that—well, how are
we going to address this with this 0.8 percent increase in our budget? We're at
the same place that we were before, I mean, there's no aggressive move to try to
address it. And his response was that we're going to try to seek grants, which is
what the County has been trying to do all of these years, right, so no different.
He also mentioned private-public partnerships. Now in that regard, I know
that there was a bill running through both the Senate and the House of
Representatives. Ultimately, it didn't move too, you know, much further. But I
want to get your perspectives on this, because I know the County of Hawaii, well
the Mayor's Office anyway, wrote testimony in strong support. I think
"unequivocal,"they used the word, is what they used. And even Mr. Richards
submitted testimony in that regard.
Now, I'm not going to get into a back-and-forth on the merits of this thing,
because I have my personal feelings about, you know, whether—well, I'll tell you
right now, I do not believe that a private-public partnership is in the best interest
of the public and to the potential rate payers or taxpayers. That's just my feeling,
okay?
But having said that, I want your perspective on how this could look. Maybe I
could change my mind. I don't see how a profit-driven thing can work though,
but—and in a nutshell, because this is really programmatic. It's not related to our
budget specifically this year, but it does relate to the program. So if you could
just briefly give us your vision. I don't want to take up too much time on this. I
know you could probably spend a lot of time talking about it, but just briefly, in a
nutshell.
MR. MANSOUR: I hope you change your mind. I'll give you a good example.
Had Hilo been in the private sector, you wouldn't be seeing in the condition it is
today.
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MR. CHUNG: But what's your vision anyway?
MR. MANSOUR: You know, the idea is because it goes back to the funding,
and private won't have the funds to continue to do preventive maintenance that
you need to do. Our goal and my vision with the private, because we are Big
Island decentralized, the privatization is not about just let's take over this facility
and run it as a private, it is to team up with them and use their innovative ideas
and partner with them in trying to figure out what's the best way for treatment,
what's the best way to resource-recovery, how you're going to do it. We did it
with the City and County of Honolulu. We have Synagro (Bioconversion
Facility), was right on the same facility as Sand Island, and they were extracting
and operating the digesters, extracting the biosolids and converting to fertilizer.
So, that's partnership we're talking about. There is resource-recovery. You need
to bring the people that know how to be able to capture it, to be able to turn it to
revenue, and that's what we're talking about.
So when you look at us as an island so far away, we're not going to be able to
have a waste treatment plant at every corner. But there is a private entity at every
corner, maybe we could tap into their resources and have them assist us into tying
in the communities into their treatment plan. That way you don't have to—as a
County, we don't have to go and start building treatment plants at every corner to
provide the wastewater service.
So a good example, Cal Water or HI Water Service, they have a waste treatment
plant on the north, to start taking County constituents into their facility to treat
their sewer, and we'll have an agreement with them based on a capacity or of a
treatment or cost per gallon of treatment. This is the type of relationship we need
to have, otherwise the County is not going to be able to do it on its own. We have
to partner with the private to expand our services. It doesn't matter if the County
provides it or private provides it, but we need to deliver that service.
And we could work the details. The cost per gallon treatment could be calculated.
It could be given to the private, and they charge us for it, and vice-versa. That's
how it needs to be, and that's how it needs to be envisioned. We've run it—you
know, I've seen it through my 30-plus years career in the business, and that's how
you become successful.
MR. CHUNG: As I said, I'm not I don't want to debate on that, alright?
MR. MANSOUR: Right.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. I just wanted to get your perspective. But I will say this
and, you know, I'd like to keep an open-mind about this, you know, right?
Because if it's good for the general public, then it's something that we should
seriously look at. But my understanding though, is that the bill, I mean it look
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like it was modeled, or actually used the template from a Hawaii Health Care
System's bill that came up many years ago, maybe about five or six years ago,
and so much so that some of it references to HHSC (Hawai`i Health Systems
Corporation)
MR. MANSOUR: The health system, Maui Health System.
MR. CHUNG: were still in the bill. Yeah, so something is weird about it.
And also, I can understand where they try to extract things from the wastewater to
come up with various resources, which they can use as a marketable commodity.
But I still have a hard time, and I'm not going to belabor the point, but having
wastewater treatment facilities becoming privatized. I just—maybe it's
something I've got to wrap my brain around it at some point, and maybe I can
come to understand it better. But it still comes down to profit, and somebody's
got to pay for this thing. The last thing I want to do really is have the taxpayers
be hamstrung by something that they have no control over. And that's all. That's
all I'm going to say because I don't—you know, it's getting
MR. MANSOUR: Just for your information, there's a lot of private wastewater
or owned by private entities. Wastewater has not always been run by public
entities. Here on the island, we have seven private wastewater operators now
within the resorts. So the idea—and let's assume your house is next to these
resorts and they have a treatment plant, but you cannot tie to their Kealakehe
Treatment Plant.
So look at the opportunity, you got a cesspool. Wouldn't it make sense to get off
the cesspool and partner with this private entity to take your sewer, so you don't
have to create your own treatment plant because the County is not going to be
able to reach you to provide that service? And that's what it's all about, you
benefit from it. We could team up with the private, to tell them, "Yeah, take
Mr. Chung's sewer connection, and take his wastewater and treat it because you
are next door to him,"which does make financial sense.
MR. CHUNG: You know, I'm not going to argue.
MR. MANSOUR: Yeah.
MR. CHUNG: You're the expert, but you also during the course of your
presentation, also showed us how you guys had to go in there and try to fix or
troubleshoot some private facilities too, in the past then. You know, I just have
some concerns. But I wanted to see what you envision, that's all.
MR. MANSOUR: And hopefully once I get my Wastewater Integrated
Management Plan over the whole island that becomes the vision. The vision is to
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provide a service to all of our constituents at an affordable cost within their
means.
MR. CHUNG: That's good.
MR. MANSOUR: And the County would understand that the County cannot
have a waste treatment plant at every corner. But if our constituents live within
the means of a private entity, I would love to sit down and negotiate with that
private entity to provide services to our constituents. It's a win-win.
MR. CHUNG: And then let me just ask you one more question, though. Within
the context of that legislation or any legislation, and in light of the fact that our
Hilo Wastewater Treatment Plant was constructed with federal monies, right?
MR. MANSOUR: Yes.
MR. CHUNG: Can it be transferred? Those responsibilities: operational,
maintenance, and all those things under the terms of the grant?
MR. MANSOUR: Like I said, our intent is not to transfer the operation.
MR. CHUNG: But that's what the bill calls for.
MR. MANSOUR: Well, yeah. OurI mean, we're talking about like the Pahala.
New facility, you know, that kind of makes sense.
MR. CHUNG: Just for new facilities?
MR. MANSOUR: Yeah.
MR. CHUNG: That's what you're looking at then?
MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, we need to look at that legislation. I understand it took
us couple weeks to get it done. I gave kudos to Mayor Roth. He wanted to do
something, and we have a short time. It was like two weeks after he took office to
create that because they had a deadline, because of the transition taking place. So
you're right, it wasn't looked at in detail. It needs work, and that's why we
committed to work on it this year and resubmit it.
But I think from my vision, you asked me about my vision, I think it becomes
very helpful in how I described it to you. I mean, it won't be bad to have the
private come in and put their capital investment in it and have our guys operate it.
You know, it's a win-win, because they're not going to fly their own operators
from the mainland. They're going to—we're going to use our operators. You
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know, we could you know, they could fund the projects, put the money in there,
and turn around and lease it to us.
MR. CHUNG: I think you guys better take a closer look at that piece of
legislation then. Yeah, because I think what you described isn't what was
contained in that legislation.
MR. MANSOUR: I understand. It was two weeks to
MR. CHUNG: Yeah.
MR. MANSOUR: You know, the idea is, what's the best way we could ? At
least I totally understand.
MR. CHUNG: Okay.
MR. MANSOUR: And the Mayor understand that, too.
MR. CHUNG: But we can talk about this more. And I really do apologize to you
and my fellow Council Members, it's getting late.
MR. MANSOUR: That's why any inputs from you guys will be appreciated.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, but we can talk about this more. Thank you, Ramzi.
MR. MANSOUR: No. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Ms. Kierkiewicz,
go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Sure, I'll keep this real quick. My colleagues covered
things in great detail, very comprehensively. Aloha, Director, Deputy. It's been a
long few days.
I'm glad Councilman Chung brought up the legislation. Whatever you guys are
cooking up, please keep us in touch just keep in touch with us. It caught a lot of
folks off-guard. I think there was a lot of misinterpretation, misinformation
rolling around regarding it. And I just have to say that I think a consistent theme
that I've seen that I'm picking up here, is there's just lack of communication.
And I know everybody is trying to get used to their roles, but please keep in touch
with us because many challenges we face, we have to be working on, a unified
front. You're smart, you are connected, and I really do want to give you guys a
chance here. I think you guys can lead us out of the issues we're facing within
this department.
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But again, I think you're going to also have to work in collaboration with my
colleagues and myself. Everybody brings incredible ideas and great skillsets to
the table. Leverage that. You know, there are ways in which we can be turning
our liabilities into assets and creating more, as Council Member Villegas likes to
say, a circular economy. We can't do that, but we really have to work together.
Just a few things that I want to highlight. I promised constituents that I would
elevate it during budget discussions, because we've been fielding calls about this.
You know, Council Chair David did bring up the trailer issue. You did say that
some studies were done at transfer stations. Really interested to get a copy of that
so that we can share with constituents, you know, reasoning why there were
safety issues and concerns, so just want to know,
A number of constituents do haul trash for various kupuna neighbors, and they do
organize community clean-ups. This is the most efficient way for them to haul to
transfer stations, so they were certainly a lot of upset with the announcement. So
just looking for more information so we can communicate.
Another thing, you know, in the Kea`au Transfer Station in particular, a lot of
folks use the reuse store. Because it's so high-traffic, I would like to see if
possible within the budget, investment in some additional sanitation stations,just
to ensure cleanliness of the area. You know, folks washing hands and things of
that nature. If you don't have it in your budget, we would like to talk about just
temporary solutions, leveraging some contingency money, some funding. I don't
know if you wanted to comment on that.
MR. MANSOUR: Yes, definitely we would love to work with you and try to find
out—sanitation, it becomes a safety issue, too. If we need to provide some way
to—for handwashing in our temporary facilities. I don't know if we have a water
system there that we could tap into. But that also goes to the funding). I guess
I'll waive it to Greg, if you want to chime in to add more. But I think yes
definitely, we would love to work with you and find a solution.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Well, we'll follow-up via email.
MR. MANSOUR: Yes.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And the other thing, Greg Goodale brought this up when
he presented with Mr. Hayduckso the Integrated Solid Waste Management Plan,
the need for public education. I don't know if everybody realizes that you are
accepting white goods again at the transfer station. Sometimes we see them on
the highway. So if we can get more PSAs (Public Service Announcements) out
about it, you know, over social media, radio,just consistently to remind folks, that
would be great.
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MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, definitely. That's a great point. And this is our
challenge.
MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: We were just having a conversation about that today,
Greg, is about using Cyrus (Johnasen). You know, when I was a State Director at
USDA, I got as much public time on the radio that they had.
MR. MANSOUR: Yes.
MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Whenever they had free-time, they would call me, and
we would like talk about my program. So, I think we need to do that same thing.
We've got Cyrus Johnasen. We've got Longakit(Pomai Bartolome)there with
our staff. She's a beautiful and eloquent speaker. She has the connections. We
should be getting those information out. Even about our event that we're having
in July for Oceanview, for the abandoned vehicle event, let's get it out early so
people know. Those people might be thinking about dumping their vehicle next
month, they might say, "Hey, I remember seeing a sign, that July they're having
an Oceanview event." So we're going to—we definitely—we just had that
conversation today, so we're on the same—we should be definitely using that and
getting that information out more.
MR. MANSOUR: And it is in our minds, believe me. Just public education is
number one county-wide. We need to start concentrating on it. What to throw
and not to throw and how to recycle, if we're going to achieve sustainability.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, great. And then, are you in conversations with
Stuart Coleman, WAI, Wastewater Alternatives and Innovations? They've got
like Cinderella incineration toilets and want to work with low-income housing
folks to just do some cesspool conversation. So just I don't know if that
conversation has been had.
MR. MANSOUR: Yes, I am part of the Cesspool Committee for the State. I
represent the County. I wasn't it before I came here because I was representing
City and County on that committee. So yes, there are a lot of discussion, a lot of
options. Incinerators, toilets, you know, we just need to be careful. There's
definitely, there's a lot of floating options, but we want to make sure that we get
something that's going to work, sustainable, and it doesn't create more hazard
than what it needs. So, yeah.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Agreed. I just hope that you explore.
MR. MANSOUR: Yeah. I've used them before in some of the facilities in
California. But that's like out in the mountains, yes. But here, you know, for our
communities to start using them, it's probably not highly recommended. But we
could talk more about it.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Thanks again for your hard work. And we stand
ready to support you.
MR. MANSOUR: Thank you.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks, Chair. I yield.
MR. MANSOUR: Thank you so much.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Anyone else, Kona side?
MR. INABA: No, we're good. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I have a few questions for you. Oh,
go ahead, Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Hi, Ramzi. Ms. Kierkiewicz used the word that kind of triggered
another question. This is again more programmatic than budgetary. But you
know, given our waste stream and looking into the future, what are your thoughts
on waste-to-energy?
MR. MANSOUR: It's great. This is what we engineers live for, is try to convert
any possible resource to something reusable and to energy. Yes, I mean there's so
many different ways that you could capture that resource and convert it to energy.
It depends what energy you're looking for. You know, is it CoGen
(Cogeneration), there's hydrogen, you could use the methane. So it depends on
the project. But yes, waste-to-energy, when it's applicable, this is what we thrive
for as engineers and making the best out of it.
MR. CHUNG: I mean because, you know, at some point something's got to give,
right? I mean we just can't be dumping things into the ground. You know, that's
not good. Do you think under your administration, there might be a push towards
some kind of waste-to-energy initiative? I'm not going to hold you to it, of
course. And I don't want to put you on the spot, but I've got to see, you know,
where you're at on this.
MR. MANSOUR: Well I believe there is some initiative all over the State when
it comes to waste-to-energy all over the country.
MR. CHUNG: For the County, I think.
MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, but the State, yes definitely. But we need to be careful
too.
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MR. CHUNG: Of course.
MR. MANSOUR: It depends on what you design or what you have. A lot of
people think, well the Kealakehe treatment plant could be a great source of
energy. But we don't have digesters, so we cannot capture the gas. Therefore, it
cannot be a resource recovery when it comes to gas. So it depends on the process
too.
MR. CHUNG: Well, I'm talking more about solid waste.
MR. MANSOUR: Even the solid waste, we need to keep in mind, if you want to
capture hydrogen gas and others from a landfill, you still need the source that's
going to produce that. So it's a balancing act. And that's what I'm saying, as
engineers we'd love to design these things based on the need.
So if you want to convert waste-to-energy based on capturing the hydrogen or
based on converting that methane to provide electricity to a thousand homes, then
you need the fuel that's going to provide the energy to be able to convert it.
MR. CHUNG: That would be the trash.
MR. MANSOUR: That'll be the trash. So if our goal is to start recycling—so we
need to create a balance.
MR. CHUNG: Of course.
MR. MANSOUR: So to make the system work.
MR. CHUNG: But it's inescapable. We'll always have trash.
MR. MANSOUR: You're always going to have some, and it depends that some
is going to produce the biodegradable to be able to generate that energy. So it's a
balancing equation that we need to look at the end goal. What is our end goal?
You know, to produce electricity to homes, then yes, you're right. To get all the
waste and start converting it to, you know, biodiesel or other bio-fossils. So you
know, there's so many different opportunities and different ways to convert that
to energy. We need to look at first, what type of energy are we after that could
benefit the County?
MR. CHUNG: Okay. Alright, thank you, Ramzi.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Chung, for the question about
waste-to-energy. I do think it merits discussion. But the caution is well
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understood. You don't want to have to build something you have to then feed
when you have objectives that are all about reducing waste at the same time. The
good news is that it seems like the scale of some of the waste-to-energy
methodologies have started to get smaller so that you don't have to build
something quite so big. But that's another tangent.
The follow-up question, I'm going to pretend to be Council Member Richards, for
a second, since he's not here to ask that question. If there are funds for
infrastructure coming from the American Rescue packet or the American Jobs
Plan, what do you have that's shovel-ready?
MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: We do have a list of shovel-ready projects. We can go at
any time. That's one of our high priorities. Dora's got that ready for us, so we
do. We do have a list.
MS. KIMBALL: That's fantastic. Do you have an idea, roughly dollar figure of
that list?
(Note: At this time, Environmental Management Wastewater Division
Chief Dora Beck came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
MS. BECK: Aloha. Dora Beck, Wastewater Division Chief. Well, let me ask
you this question first. What do you mean by shovel-ready? Construction-ready
or design-ready?
MS. KIMBALL: I am particularly interested in construction-ready, but if you
have both figures immediately available, I would take them both.
MS. BECK: Okay. I do have a list. Actually the list that I had submitted to
Congressman Kahele via the website.
MS. KIMBALL: Fantastic.
MS. BECK: So there is a list that—you want me to read it off?
MS. KIMBALL: No, that's okay. In the interest of time, really just what I was
I'm just looking for in ballpark, like ballpark is fine.
MS. BECK: Okay, so I've got an itemized list here of shovel-ready, more like
design.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay.
MS. BECK: So, there's one for $32 million; one for $1.6 million; one for
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$19 million, and one for $3.2 million; one for $2 million, another for $2 million,
and $300,000.
MS. KIMBALL: Well done.
MR. MANSOUR: You did it. Awesome.
MS. KIMBALL: Do you have a little calculator there? Is that? Wow. Super,
impressed.
MR. MANSOUR: You must have an engineer mind. Or faster than an engineer
mind.
MS. KIMBALL: So those are design ready?
MS. BECK: Yeah.
MS. KIMBALL: Your design-ready items. Okay.
MS. BECK: Or in the pre-design.
MR. MANSOUR: We're looking to have them shovel ready. I mean we just
need to the minute we get the commitment, we'll probably put them out on the
street.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, great. Alright, that's all I have. Thanks, Chair.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Okay, any other
questions? Okay, Ramzi, I've got a few for you. Let's discuss new positions. So
you put out a request for, or you actually funded and put the request out within
this budget for how many positions? Sixteen?
MR. MANSOUR: For the Wastewater, 14.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Fourteen positions. And Solid Waste, no?
MR. MANSOUR: Solid Waste, they are the current positions, they were
unfunded, so we're trying to fund them. They were paid for by the CARES
(Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security)Act. So now, they're going to
go back into the County's budget.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So it was previously funded by CARES
and now we're taking over?
MR. MANSOUR: Yes.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then the 14 new positions, it
looks like it's more Wastewater, actually completely Wastewater, yeah?
MR. MANSOUR: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And I'm just going new positions versus
what you had?
MR. MANSOUR: That's correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Three Sewer Maintenance Repairers and
you're adding two more? Correct?
MR. MANSOUR: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Two Mechanical Repair Welders and
you're adding one more?
MR. MANSOUR: That's correct.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm just looking over the other ones. You
don't have actual positions for these programs. Support Technicians,
Environmental Compliant Specialist. So if I just look at this from an objective
point of view, you're adding new people. What are these new people going to do
for the facilities? You gave us the story, but every department gives us a story on
what they want. They're under-budget, they need more staffing. We hear it from
everybody. So what's this going to do for us?
MR. MANSOUR: Hopefully it could, definitely the Maintenance Repairer we
need because we are so scattered between our facilities. We cannot provide the
required maintenance that require sewer inspections, televise, and maintaining
sewer.
So the idea is to have the crew on the west side doing the west side sewer and the
people on the east side doing the east side sewer. So that way, you could
efficiently try to produce and maintain more items by linear foot than what we've
been doing. Because you don't want to lose time on the travel, you lose three
hours. That three hours better spent doing something. Cleaning sewer pipes,
doing maintenance.
And these are some of the challenges we have. With the small amount of
employees we have, we allow them to go all over the island. And we lose so
much time and efficiency in travel time. So the best thing, it'll become actually
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cheaper for us and more efficient to have these people doing the west side versus
doing the east side. So you could eliminate that loss of time.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I mean you're adding on both sides, right?
MR. MANSOUR: Yes. Some of them, if we don't have it on this side, we're
adding. If we don't have it on the west side—so to have proper crew that could
be able to do the work.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I mean you're adding the same
positions to both sides of the island. So you're increasing existing positions with
more positions. I want to know that that equals out to more work being done and
taking us from an F to an A, as has been told over and over again. But you know,
this is also
MR. MANSOUR: Remember these positions not only for treatment. We're
talking about the sewer collection. We're talking about the new program that
we're going to implement about pre-treatment program, because that's going to be
under Administrative Order Consent. So as you read these positions these are not
operators. These are for the collection system to put us in compliance when it
comes to permitting and the pretreatment program that we need to implement.
And you also subsidize that money, we got a grant for $600,000. So that also
covers some of the staffing for the acid management.
Because we have a system. We don't only just treat, we collect the sewer through
the sewer collection system. We see the equipment. We see the pumps and
motors that requires mechanics, not operators. So all of that, we need to try and
put it together to be more sufficient to be able to do all this along the treatment
plant that we have within the Big Island.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Is this all the staff you would need to get
yourself from an F to an A, or did you actually apply for more staffing?
MR. MANSOUR: I think as I mentioned earlier, the F to the A, that's treatment
only. And to get us to the A, we need to replace the facilities first. And once in
place we need to put the accountability program responsibility, as I mentioned
earlier. Then we need to provide the training to the staff. And that's what's going
to keep us in the A grade.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm just talking about staffing right now.
So staffing-wise, this is all the staffing you had requested or was there further
staffing you had requested that didn't make it in front of us?
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MR. MANSOUR: We are going to be probably coming the next year in front of
you and it depends how we're going to finish the Hilo projects and set up the
programs. So we're working on the programs that need to be put in place.
I had my meeting with the operator this morning, and they begged me to get them
more staff becauseI think Sue had seen it when she went there. We don't have
enough staff to operate these facilities. They're doing everything themselves. A
good example is when I went to Honoka`a, there's only one operator seeing the
entire facility. You need at least for that big a facility, 300,000 (gallon) lagoon
facility, you need people up there. We didn't have enough staff to see it. They
only use to visit it once a week, and that's the requirement. That doesn't work for
us.
So definitely we have not analyzed the system because we have not yet decided
how we're going to rebuild the system. Once we rebuild it, that's going to tell me
how many operators, depends on the system that we built.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, in some ways then, I'd say we're
throwing staff at a problem we don't understand. And then you're going to see
that problem when you look at the facility?
MR. MANSOUR: No, this staff is not going to be the operations. Remember,
our department does more than just operations.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I guess, sewer maintenance and repair is
not operational.
MR. MANSOUR: That's for collections system. That's for your sewer line in
the street like Alii Drive. You know, we cannot allow sewer to back up. That's
what these guys are going to be doing. They going to be overseeing the sewer
collections system, not the treatment.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, and some of these positions start
6-1-22, which is basically next year, June, right before we start the new budget.
But it's interesting, you know, budgeting it out that far.
MR. MANSOUR: Well, some of them, it depends on the recruitment and when
they're going come in. Some of them are tied up to the program that we are
working with the Department of Health on. The Department of Health wanted to
show due diligence from our part because they are that program was supposed
to be in place in 2008. So some of these positions are going to be coming in to
assist us set up that program as per our Department of Health requirements.
So hopefully with the recruitment process because, you know, by the time you put
the job announcement out and recruit, some of them may take some time,
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depending if you fund the position or not. That's why we try to stagger it based
on some assumptions.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Some things that caught my
attention, you know, Wastewater OCE, you have some equipment needs in there.
I mean $400 a chair, $500 a desk. I just got to ask, what kind of chairs are we
buying?
MR. MANSOUR: We're going to get the cheapest chair possible. You know, I
got a chair for $99 someplace.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, me too. Well, you got it listed.
You've got six chairs at$2,400.
MR. MANSOUR: I think it's just for budget purposes, probably, but we have a
price.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I may seem small, but you know, this kind
of stuff always catches people's attention. So I've got to ask it.
MS. BAUMAN: Sorry, I suspect that the quantity probably, the dollar amount
got changed to add additional chairs and the quantity did not.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I've seen that in other departments,
too, today.
MS. BAUMAN: We're not spending $400 per chair.
MR. MANSOUR: We'll use recyclable chairs if you guys got them.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Some other ones too,
Wastewater OCE. I mean, it looks like 2022-2023, we're stepping up to almost to
$1 million. You've got a lot of purchases this year and this coming year, and we
just approved almost$750,000. Like the CCTV, a couple generators. These are
just some high-cost five-year leases we're looking at. So I want to make sure
we're being—given the physical constraints we're facing, that we're not going
crazy.
MR. MANSOUR: No believe me, we're not. We're actually under-staffed,
under-equipped, but now at least this will give us a lifeline. Definitely, we need
to televise these lines. We have lines in the streets, cast iron pipes that actually
don't exist under the roadway, because they're corroded and cast iron is
something in the past. People don't use it anymore, but we need to be able to
televise it. We need to be able to clean it to prevent clogging. A sink hole in the
roadway. All that necessity to create a preventative program. So you have to
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keep up with our infrastructure. Otherwise, you're going to lose the
infrastructure.
What we're asking for is the minimum to get us going so we don't fall behind. So
some of these generators—I'll give you a good example. One of the other reasons
that we don't sleep at night. And Dora, I think she cannot sleep at night. She
keeps telling me because if one of our force main failed. We don't have the right
equipment to be able to bypass the system, have enough generators to pump that
flow and control it.
Currently, we don't have a way to control any major spills. And it's scary. When
someone calls in the middle of the night, saying, you've got a sewer line that
broke. I don't even have the right equipment to maintain it.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I mean we see a lot on Oahu. That is a
scary thing.
MR. MANSOUR: It's scary, but I can guarantee, I was the Chief there. If you go
to our yard, they have probably 20 generators sitting there. They've got pipes that
will take you probably all around the island because they learned a lesson from
the last consent decree. And now they have stuff set aside in the yard ready for
any emergency. But we don't have it here.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, good to know you're planning.
Ms. Kimball asked me to ask if any Council Members had further questions
before I go on. Okay, thank you.
Something that was in your program objectives was metal scrap facilities. Where
you're at with those? Hilo and Kona. And I'm going there, I got email last night
from a good friend of mine. I had a friend email me and he goes, "Matt, it says,
zerowaste.org. But what are you really doing for zero waste?" And I saw these
two within the Vehicle Disposal Fund, you know,program objectives. And you
have a Hilo and Kona scrap facility, looks like. I also want to talk about the
impound lots and where we're at with those.
(Note: At this time, Solid Waste Division Chief Greg Goodale came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. GOODALL Greg Goodale, Solid Waste Division Chief. So I guess I'm not
100 percent on the question you're asking.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: We're moving towards zero waste. We
throw a lot of stuff away. We're filling up our landfill in West Hawaii. We have
to be better in every aspect of the way we handle our trash. Part of that is making
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sure metal is not going into the facilities that we currently have, which we do a
good job of.
But I notice within your program objectives that there's a Hilo scrap facility and a
Kona scrap facility. I think Kona, as well. But they were basically in the design
phase. And I want to make sure that we're moving towards having those open.
And where are we at with them?
MR. GOODALL So that's actually for so the County actually ran scrap
facilities on County property for many years. There was a scrap metal processing
facility in Kealakehe, Kailua-Kona, and then also there was a scrap metal
processing facility in Hilo. And unfortunately, those two facilities were run by
contractors that didn't run them very well. And so now, the County is basically in
the process of cleaning those two former facilities up.
So back in 2013, we actually closed both of those facilities and put the processing
of scrap metal out to the private entities that actually do that work. So there are
actually two different scrap metal processors on this island, private. So the
County sends all of our scrap vehicles and, you know, appliances. And you
know, basically all scrap metal that we take in at our facilities all go to those
private entities, who then process the material at a permitted facility and then ship
it out to buyers out of state.
MR. MANSOUR: Maybe your question about remediation of the current scrap
metal. Yeah, that we have because it's mandated. We have to close it in
accordance to the Department of Health. So you look at it as a closure project for
these sites. So we have to assemble. We have to kind of close it in accordance.
Is that your question about why is the money there? So it's not to build a new
facility. It's to comply with the mandates from the Department of Health to close
these facilities in accordance to their requirement.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then the Hilo impound lot was
on the Capital Improvement list and that was to transfer out. And where is that in
process?
MR. GOODALL So we are in the process of entering into doing the
environmental assessment for that. And the big issue there is basically making
sure that the vehicles that we bring in, or actually working with Hawaii Police
Department(HPD) on, you know, their programs for Accident Vehicle Removal
program. So we're actually trying to do a lot more, you know, coupled up with
HPD on these things.
So the reason we're working on this project is basically to develop a storage
facility for vehicles. We've had a lot of issues with vandalism of vehicles in our
impound. And we wanted to ensure that the vehicles that are collected, you
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know, especially for the ones that we have the probability of returning to the
owner, don't end up being vandalized or defaced in any way. So that's the
primary purpose of that project for Hilo.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Vehicle disposal fund. It looks like
it's almost to a point where it's self-sustaining. Is that a good thing?
MR. MANSOUR: That's a good thing. Actually, I wish every fund is similar to
that, yes. Hopefully, eventually, we can have all our Sewer Fund and Solid Waste
Fund is good as those funds.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'd like to commend some of your staff,
too, on the way they get those cars, the speed at which they get the vehicles off
the street. I have complaints from my district, usually within a phone call. And
in a couple days, they'll have them removed. If they weren't being addressed
already.
MR. MANSOUR: Thank you. And like Brenda was saying, she's going to work
with Greg and our staff to do more of that, community events. Our goal is for the
beautification of our island, you know, we're trying to kind of encourage these
community events, abandoned vehicles. So I think they had a meeting, so
hopefully
MR. GOODALL Yeah, as the Director said, I mean we've been, you know,
working on this for quite some time. You know, this has actually been a program
that we've been able to see lot of improvements in. And I know it's hours late
and I could go on for a while, but I won't. So I appreciate what you've said and
thank you for your comments.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. And I'm touching on that
because you're moving away from reliance on the General Fund, which is good.
So we're trying to get a lot of our funds away from it.
Sewer, across the board I saw everyone's landfill fees going up in every single
department that has a landfill tipping fee connected to the department. Our
tipping fees have gone up, correct?
MR. GOODALL So, yeah, the tipping fees, so that passed a few years back. So
that was done on a five-year increase. So this next year will represent the last
year of that increase based on the original ordinance that increased landfill tipping
fees. You know, it goes back to what the Director said earlier. I mean we have
ever-increasing costs, and this was something that wasn't keeping pace. So you
know, the tipping fees are only paid on the commercial. So obviously County is
one of those that ends up paying that cost, but you know, that's a cost that we all
bear. So we need to keep pace with what it costs to actually do that work.
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So you know, we believe we're getting closer and closer to that point. We're not
there yet, but you know, one of the things that was actually built into that was the
ability for us to be able to have that cost increase by the Consumer Price Index on
an annual basis so we can continue to see that price and keep pace what it actually
cost to do the work.
MR. MANSOUR: And just to add to that. Because the current contracts we
have, they already have a built in CPI (Consumer Price Index). So we have to be,
you know, on the same level because we cannot pay for more on these contracts,
but yet not generate more. So it has to be on the same level to break even on, you
know, revenue versus expenditure that comes in from these tipping fees. So
we're trying to balance. But like Greg said, it was incrementally planned. And
this is last year. But even after it ends, we're going to start of part of the entire
system, trying to evaluate and see how we're going to be sustainable, and you
know, financially sufficient. So there's challenges.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, something recent that came before
us. I think it was Environmental Waste Management plan that we just talked
about. It might not be the right word, but—
MR.
utMR. MANSOUR: The Integrated Waste Management plan.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The Integrated Waste Management plan. I
mean there's a lot of discussion of PAYT or Pay As You Throw.
MR. MANSOUR: And remember, this isI just want to make it clear. This
document is a living document. I know it was dated in 2019. It was submitted to
you recently, but we are kind of mandated by regulatory to submit that plan. It
doesn't mean that we have to live with it, because under the new Administration,
you know, we could change things and come back and amend that plan. So, it's a
living plan. It's a roadmap to show that we are thinking about the system and the
process to submit it to the regulatory agencies. There's a lot of work that was put
into that plan. And our goal is to continue navigating through it. If we find
different ways as we work, that's going to change. Just keep that in mind. It's a
living document.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I remember you saying it. I worry about
areas like Kalapana, or rural areas where they don't access to a transfer station of
a landfill. And when we started doing pay as you throw we already had a trash
problem in our more rural areas. So we will I think increase that if we start doing
a pay as you throw. And I know we need to get to a point where we're
self-sustaining within the fund, but there's going to be a hard balance there.
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MR. MANSOUR: There's a lot of challenges. You know, I sat down with my
Deputy this morning and we tried to work on how we're going to navigate
through the solid waste. And I will be sitting down with the Division Chief. And
our goal, as I stated from day one is to look at the operational vision of the island.
Look at the options. Analyze every option possible. You know, a transfer station
at every corner or collection system could offset that cost, or all roads leads to the
west side landfill. Or should we have a landfill here?
So all these we need to analyze, and look at the options, look at the pros and cons.
And have a better solid layout of how we're going to start visioning where we're
going to go. But you're right, there's areas you cannot reach. Those areas are
concentrated. It could be different pilot programs in different areas to see how
they're going to function. So we need to look at that and the cost of each
operation and figure out if the cost could be converted to some other creative way.
But yet provide the service without people going to that transfer station.
So we need to look at all that. Is the cost of building more transfer stations and
having people getting there is cheaper than just getting collection trucks and start
collecting using the three containers? And if it equals out, you better do a
collection because you encourage recycling and because you have the three
containers. So you know, that's the rap we'll take, but we need to do it. Analyze
it, do pros and cons, and try to figure out what's the best way to move forward.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And on that subject, I think
Kalapana last year, they have a transfer station there, but we've cut back the
services. It was budgeted for three days a week, and then it was cut back to one
day a week. It may have been two days a week and then one day. Either way, we
got cut back on services. The community wasn't happy.
And we have the Pahoa station which it was told to me, "Hey they can use
Pahoa." But not all of our constituents, you know, have the funds to do what it
takes. And not everyone is off on the same day and can access the transfer
station. But I didn't see that in here as far as, many of the Puna areas being
serviced or having funds set aside for the—like the Glenwood transfer station
which was on our books to have some work done to it.
MR. GOODALE: Well, yeah, I mean Glenwood did have improvements done to
it a few years back as did Volcano. There was actually money set aside that was
to cover for Glenwood, Volcano, and Wai`ohinu. So we're now actually in the
process working on the Wai`ohinu station. But yeah, as far as Glenwood,
Volcano, improvements were made a few years back already.
MR. MANSOUR: And it goes back to, you know, do we want to continue
throwing money if there's other options maybe better, like the collection or
different model that may work better.
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So but you're right, you know, we're moving forward currently in both, trying to
wrap our head around, you know, the option and the pros and cons. And you
know, that's our intent, and present the costs. It could be a cost-saving. It could
be more money. As I mentioned in the presentation, we only get about four
percent subsidy from the entire County budget. So for every $1,000 we collect on
the taxes. We only get$40. You know,just imagine the cost difference. And
four percent, you know, isn't enough to make it sustainable financially with all
these services being requested. And that's why $40 on $1,000, where does that
take you?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: On the same subject, what is our cost
estimate, and are you hitting your mark when it comes to what it takes to transfer
trash from Hilo to Kona? That was a number we didn't really know as we closed
the landfill in South Hilo.
MR. MANSOUR: I'm putting my hand on it, I'm sure it's costing us more
because we're triple-handling the waste. We put it up from the transfer stations.
It goes to Hilo then it gets trucked from Hilo to the west side. So you're triple
handling. Once you're triple- double- quadruple-handle the waste, that brings the
costs up.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Did you get the right number in your
budget? That's what I was worried about.
MR. MANSOUR: We budgeted what we had based on the actual cost now. So if
you're asking, have we looked at the other options? We are looking at the other
options. But what you see in the budget, the actual costs are from what the actual
service is costing us.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. MANSOUR: And most of it is contracts or lease equipment, or what have
you. So it's a given cost.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And just for my information, what is an
ATM-DIV (Automotive Division)repair?
MR. GOODALL That's the Automotive Division.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. You have some
equipment in here. You have some digester, clarifiers. You told us what you
needed. Did you put what you wanted in this budget as far as equipment needs?
Is it in here?
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MR. MANSOUR: Some of that equipment, but most of our equipment are part of
the CIP budget. And goes totally under different strategies of how we're going to
cover the CIP. And that's pretty much I'll refer that to Finance of how they're
planning to finance the entire CIP projects for the entire County because it's not
our department only. There's other CIP for other departments. But yes, we give
them our list and some of this equipment is part of the project itself, the build-out
project. But what you see in the budget, the small equipment that we could put
within the budget that we have. But the larger equipment becomes part of the
CIP.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I'm looking at your placement
reserve account. You've got Hilo Bio-tower arm replacement and things like that.
I'm guessing these are things that you need, and you need to be able to replace
them when they break.
MR. MANSOUR: Yes.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And I want to make sure you got what
you've need in here because I mean you painted a real bad picture of our facilities
Island-wide.
MR. MANSOUR: Thank you, I appreciate your support, and you're right.
Fortunately, the Bio-tower arms are being replaced. I think we were able to
purchase two of them this year. So we're waiting on the contractor to be able to
come in and put them. So, yes, thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, some substantial increases. I'm not
going to lie. Your department went up. I understand you have needs, but I've got
to look at everybody as a whole and see what we can do.
MR. MANSOUR: Sure.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I appreciate your time today, Ramzi.
Thank you. Thank you for you and your department coming down. Appreciate
what you guys do. Your guys at the facilities are always very nice and friendly. I
don't go to the wastewater treatment facilities a lot, but at the solid waste
facilities, they're very nice and they're doing a good job.
MR. MANSOUR: Thank you. And thank all of you for your continued support.
And definitely, I just want to make sure that our commitment to be transparent I
know you asked the question, so our commitment to all of you is to be transparent
and up front, because that's the motto of our Mayor Roth. Transparency is very
important to the Administration.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
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MR. MANSOUR: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Council, we actually have to make a
decision before you all run away. This is the last day of our Special Meeting on
the Committee on Finance, and we have to choose thank you for your time
today, appreciate it. So we have three options really. We can recess the meeting,
we can postpone the meeting, and we can forward the meeting.
I actually prefer and I would actually make the motion that we recess the meeting.
If further questions were to arise and you wanted to bring any departments back.
You can have them come back and we can discuss things further.
MS. KIMBALL: Mr. Clerk, could you help guide us with some descriptions?
Thank you.
MR. HENRICKS: Well, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder is talking about keeping this
meeting in recess. Do you have any proposed timeframe to come back and any
inclination as to, you know, specific purposes for doing so?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm leaving an option open for Council
Members, if there were further questions that they have for a department or if
something happens within the next two weeks or so that we want to address with
any department.
MR. HENRICKS: Then you can postpone this to the meeting on the 4h. I think
those are the two most reasonable options. The motion to recess would be more
to, if you hadn't had a chance to go through the list of all of the agencies and
whatnot. So I think your two most appropriate motions going forward are to vote
on the motion on the floor to move this to Council which will go to the first
meeting, which would be May 20''. We get the Draft 2 on May 5h. Or to
postpone to May 4h, which keeps it in Committee. And you know, that's your
other option I would say at this time, to keep it in Committee if you so deem that
to be the best choice at this time.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I'm just going by the paper that you
were happy enough to give me with the three options. For me personally, I think
a motion to recess is good and can we close it out then?
MR. HENRICKS: Well, you wouldn't make a motion to recess. I think if we're
going to recess, you'd want to have a plan in place, because a blank motion to
recess—when are we going to get people back together? Why? I mean if you're
looking at just having more discussion, you would have the 4h to do that in
Committees.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay so in your eyes, the postponement
would be the best thing to do?
MR. HENRICKS: Not in my eyes. You know, if you want to keep this in
Committee that's probably your best option. When we talked about a motion to
recess, again late nights, couldn't get to everybody, you can keep this moving
forward. Or not moving forward but keep it in Committee. I mean that certainly
is an option, to recess this meeting and keep going. But I would just caution
against doing so, because you're going to have to bring everybody back together
again at some point to get it out of Committee and to Council. So kind of an
undefined and indefinite recess kind of leaves you guys in limbo at that point
without knowing where we're going from here.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Can that happen at any time? Like we
could have our Council meeting, our Committee meeting?
MR. HENRICKS: We would want to provide some notice when you say it could
happen at any time.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That we can bring the meeting out of
recess where there is discussion, if warranted and then close out the meeting from
there.
MR. HENRICKS: It's frowned upon to have indeterminable recess. Meaning if
you're going to recess, you're supposed to recess, and you know, have some sense
of when you're going to re-adjourn, especially if the recess is overnight. You
know, how we've been doing at the end of each day, you make the announcement
that you're reconvening at 9:00 o'clock the next morning. But to put it in recess
with no sense of reconvening is not in the Council's best interest.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, in that case then let's do a motion to
postpone to the May 4h Finance Committee meeting. And if there are further
questions for the departments, we can bring them back then. Does that sound
correct?
MR. HENRICKS: It's an option.
MS. KIMBALL: I'll make that motion, Chair.
MR. INABA: Second.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, motioned by Ms. Kimball, seconded
by Mr. Inaba to postpone the Special Committee on Finance Budget process to the
Finance Committee meeting.
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MR. HENRICKS: What you'd be doing you have two motions on the floor
right now. One is a favorable recommendation for the Operating Budget, Bill 21.
You have a favorable recommendation for the Capital Budget, Bill 22. So your
motion to postpone on those motions, not this meeting. So that would be a
motion to postpone for a favorable recommendation on Bill 21 is your first
motion.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Let me restate that. Do I do them
independently or I can do Bill 21 and 22?
MR. HENRICKS: Yes, the motion to postpone should be independent because
you have two separate motions on the floor, which we don't normally do, but
under these circumstances, it's allowed.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Okay, so can I have
a motion to postpone with a favorable recommendation of the forwarding of
Bill 21 to the May 4, 2021.
Motion to Postpone: Ms. Kimball moved to postpone Bill 21 to May 4, 2021.
Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
MS. DAVID: Excuse me. Chair, I have a question. Clerk, how does this
postponement affect our timeframe in first, second reading of this budget?
MR. HENRICKS: You have time. Because otherwise, if you voted to move it
out of Committee, it'll be placed on the May 20th Special Meeting for first
reading.
MS. DAVID: Okay, that's all of my questions. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, we have the motion on the floor.
Any discussion?
MS. LEE LOY: Yes, I was waiting to be acknowledged.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I have multiple lights on. Okay,
Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. I'm actually going to be speaking against the motion
and voting against the motion. What we have before us is a proposed budget and
what we actually get in May is the budget that we can actually amend. And so
holding it for more discussion means we can only discuss what we won't be able
to vote on, because the Administration has to prepare and provide to us a budget
on May 1st. And so for those reasons I'm going to be voting against the motion.
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I'd really rather move this along because I want to get to the budget that we can
hammer on. Those are my thoughts. Thank you, I yield.
MS. KIMBALL: If I may then, Chair? So, Council Member Lee Loy, in that
case, I understand what you're saying. So this is only a proposed budget, then as
far as the bills are concerned that we are considering, we wouldn't necessarily
want to put them forward with a favorable recommendation and just end them
here, or am I not understanding?
MR. HENRICKS: Forgive me for interjecting. You really don't have a choice on
that, per se. Because this draft is the initial draft, right? And then what happens
on May 5h or perhaps sooner, but probably not, the Mayor will submit a proposed
Draft 2. And then what happens is, by default the Council will amend this draft
you're looking at now with the Mayor's revised draft.
But under our timetable, that would happen on May 20''. So what Mr. Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder first proposed to recess, and you had motioned to postpone was, what
it would have allowed for is, as Ms. Lee Loy pointed out, you're not going to be
looking at the revised draft that the Mayor's going to bring forward. It's simply
to allow time to have further discussions as you had now on the draft you're
looking at now or more program review, which really doesn't have to necessarily
involve numbers but more discussions with agencies; all of them, any of them,
some of them, one of them, none of them.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, with that understanding, thank you as always for the
guidance. I actually think that I want to leave it open to have additional
discussions understanding that on the 4th there's a new draft, it doesn't preclude
us from asking some of the programmatic questions about this version, again, in
more detail. In other words, I'd like to keep my options open. So, will vote in
favor of the motion. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Any further
discussion? Okay, so the motion is on the floor, all in favor?
Vote on Motion The motion to postpone Bill 21 to the May 4, 2021,
to Postpone: Finance Meeting was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David,
Inaba, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas,
and Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—7
Noes: Committee Member Lee Loy — 1.
Absent: Committee Member Richards — 1.
Excused: None.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So the motion carries. Thank you.
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Vote on Motion Mr. Inaba moved to postpone Bill 22 to the May 4, 2021,
to Postpone: Finance Meeting. Seconded by Ms. Kimball and carried by
(Approved) the following voice vote:
Ayes: ' Committee Members Chung, David,
Inaba, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas,
and Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—7
Noes: Committee Member Lee Loy— 1.
Absent: Committee Member Richards— 1.
Excused: None.
CHR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Clerk.
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 7:17 p.m., Mr. Inaba moved to
MENT: adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Ms. David and carried by the
following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members David, Inaba,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas,
and Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—7
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Chung and Richards—2..
Excused: None.
CHR. KANEALI I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you everyone.
Approved:
Mr. Matt Kane. i`i-Kleinfelde Chair Date)
Finance Comm,ttee
MK/ja
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