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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN RAWEEMC 2022/01/18 2020-2022Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, Energy, and Environmental Management 15th Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawaii January 18, 2022 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Regenerative Agriculture, Water, ORDER: Energy and Environmental Management was called to order at 3:10 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards III, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards III, Chair Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Maile Medeiros David Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (via videoconference) STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Georjean Adams: Comm. 378.3; and Comm. 436.2, comments. Christopher Dean: Comm. 554, comment. Gerald Kosaki: Comm. 378.3; Comm. 436.2; and Comm. 554, comments. Saturnino Doctor: Comm. 554, comment. Jennifer Navarra: Comm. 554, comment. Rich Flammer: Comm. 554, comment. RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, stepping forward now. We have three communications before us, and before we get into them and pick these back up, I wanted to just make a statement. In consultation with Corporation Counsel and Environmental Management, we have before us request for conversations on priorities, challenges, and potential solutions. We will not be touching and having any conversations as it may pertain to any contracts or contract negotiations going on. We will be focusing specifically on what this says here: priorities, challenges, and solutions. So with that, Clerk, I know we have motions on the floor. We don't need to read them back in. Should we just take it from the top? Can you read them, just so we have it for the record? MR. HENRICKS: We would read them in. Would you like to go into the order that they're presented? CHR. RICHARDS: Yes. MR. HENRICKS: Okay. All right. COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 378.3: REQUESTS AN UPDATE FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT REGARDING SOLID WASTE DIVISION PRIORITIES AND CHALLENGES From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated October 27, 2021. Postponed: November 16, 2021 and January 4, 2022 (Note: There is a motion by Ms. Kierkiewicz, seconded by Ms. Lee Loy to close file on Communication 378.3) CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Clerk. There is a motion on the floor. Ms. Kierkiewicz, take it away. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Mahalo nui, Chair. It's great to see the department well -represented here. Thank you all for taking the time to be here with us and share all the good work that is happening in your department. A few months back, I had requested updates from the department related to Solid Waste operations, and because there are so many issues and complexities that you are facing, really just trying to understand at the end of the day, the department is advancing, what key initiatives that are really going to help solve for some of the Page 2 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 issues that we're facing with our solid waste stream. So, just looking for a quick presentation by the department here, and we will ask some follow-up questions. (Note: At this time, Environmental Management Director Ramzi Mansour and Deputy Director Brenda Iokepa-Moses came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Thank you, Ashley. Before I start, we have Ramzi Mansour, our Director, on Zoom. Ramzi, I'll open it up to you just for a few statements, so we can start our presentation. We have plenty of time for questions. MR. MANSOUR: Thank you. Good afternoon, Committee Chair, and Committee Members. The department prior, before you, in September and October of last year, a very detailed complex presentation of our challenges and priorities. We were asked to come back and present challenges and priorities for each division so it can assist you in the understanding of the upcoming budget requests, and allow you to assist in the navigation of such challenges. Therefore, my senior staff prepared these presentations today before you to address the challenges and priorities that hindered the accomplishments of their division for more than a few decades. Therefore, let us hear them out. And we ask for your support to start addressing some of these challenges moving forward. With that, I introduce my Deputy Director Brenda, who will introduce the team and to lead the presentation by staff, and I will stand by for your questions for the entire three communications. Thank you. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Thank you, Ramzi. As Ramzi said—and I'm not sure if he knows how to say my last name. Ramzi, Iokepa-Moses. Deputy Iokepa-Moses. Here we have Mike Kaha, and he's our operation guy. He's the Acting Solid Waste Chief, and doing a phenomenal job, wearing kind of two hats for a while. He's an operation guy, so he's asked me to kind of run through the slides. He's going to be here. He's got the institutional knowledge, and he can probably answer all of your questions. We also have many of our other staff, and I'll introduce as we go through those slides. So, please bear with us. I know that there's a bunch of slides here, and we basically wanted to try to solve or touch two initiatives. One, you have budget right around the corner, our budget. So we didn't want to focus too narrow -in on what we're doing, what we've accomplished in our short-term mission, without addressing some of the things we need to go through and get forward with. So, we want to make sure that you have this at your disposal. We're not going to spend a lot of time on every slide, but we want to make sure you have some information moving forward after this presentation. Page 3 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 So with that, Mike, I'm just going to go ahead and start, and then we'll have Mike here for questions afterwards. Our goal today is to get all of our staff to do their presentation, and then we have a nice question time -period for everybody to ask questions, if that's okay. Okay, so here we go. (Note: At this time, Environmental Director Ramzi Mansour, Deputy Director Brenda Iokepa-Moses, Acting Solid Waste Division Chief Mike Kaha, and Derelict/Abandon Vehicle Coordinator Juliana Holman-Escareno came forward to provide a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, please see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or in the video archives online from the County's homepage at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A hard copy of the presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 378.6 CHR. RICHARDS: Ms. Iokepa-Moses, hang on a second. We're streaming this, and looks like we're having trouble sharing the screen here. Recess for five minutes. We are in recess. Recess: At 3:35 p.m., the Chair called for a recess. Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 3:38 p.m. CHR. RICHARDS: Aloha, everyone. It is 3:38 p.m. We have our audio-visual working. So, Ms. Iokepa-Moses, please go ahead. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: And I would like to go ahead and open it up for questions, if that's okay? CHR. RICHARDS: So, thank you. Thank you for the presentation. So Ms. Kierkiewicz, you started the conversation. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Mahalo nui, Chair. Thank you for that really comprehensive update. I was not expecting that. I think we had something similar a few months back at which point we as the Council again overwhelmed with a lot of information, wanted to just better understand out of everything that is going on in the division. What are the top priorities? And I think you kind of articulated that in the beginning with the funding, the staffing, and the planning, so I just kind of want to focus there. I recall when Director Mansour was before Council during his confirmation hearing and at budget, there was talk about exploring different funding mechanisms. He had a strong background in that from his previous work, and now I'm seeing here that we need to hire a consultant to solve for that. So it's curious to me because I just thought we would be able to task his really vast Page 4 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 wealth of information to figure out what we would be a responsible business model for the Solid Waste Division. There are a number of grants out there. Wondering where the collaboration might be with your division and R&D (Department of Research and Development) to kind of solve for some of these issues. I know that you folks are part of the Build Back Better grant that was recently awarded to our County that, you know, that have $500,000 for food systems. I think we need more of that. There are also a number of VISTAS (Volunteers In Service To America) that are going to R&D. Maybe conversations with them about how we can get some VISTAS for DEM (Department of Environmental Management), because these are phenomenal folks that can support your department. There's also a local version, Lead (Lead for America — Hawai`i) for Hawaii, where we're able to put local kids into really meaningful jobs at the County and other sectors. Shout out to what's happening at Abandoned Vehicles Section. I really appreciate all the projects that you are doing throughout Puna and around the island, and I'd love for that to be the model for other work within the division. We need pilot projects. Rather than trying to figure out how we're going to do get through all these problems, start small, one little bite at a time. Build up those successes. Learn from them. Have that iterative process. We can do more. There's a lot that we can learn from. Was it Julie (Juliana Holzman-Escareno)? Julie, all the work that they're doing. Also, Senna (Berring), real dynamite, congratulations on your appointment to this Coordinator position. You are very integral in a federal grant that we've worked on together with Parks and Recreation to divert plastics from the landfill. Deputy, I'm even writing federal grants to help support your department. I think we are all in the position to help. We just need to know, but it's hard to know when there's all of this presented. So I want you to take a step back, and just really share with us what are these key priorities that you're focusing on, and where we can help with. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Okay. And I thinkI'm not sure if Ramzi wants to chime in, too. But Ramzi's only one person, so he can't do everything and he's been stepping into a lot lately. We'll be welcoming a Solid Waste Chief onboard. Hopefully that will bring some expertise, as well. But, you know, coming into this department it would have been great if there was a master plan. If there was something that somebody could have handed us and said, "Okay, this is how much it cost to handle your trash," surprisingly enough, there wasn't. So we're having to recreate this information and it's taking a while. Ramzi has said we want to get this moving, so we're going to need help. We're going to need help in both Solid Waste and Wastewater to get some experts Page 5 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 onboard, that can (inaudible), and so we can move forward on the projects. Ramzi, did you have anything to add? MR. MANSOUR: Yes, definitely. Thank you, Council Members. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: But we have Mike (Michael Kaha) here, as well. I think our short-term thing is one, of course, keeping the transfer stations open. We want the operations to continue. The reload station had been an issue that we've been able to stay on top of, but there was flux when we needed to have commercial haulers come in, because we had trash that was—Department Health was in violation. That again, we're dealing with union issues and what you have you. Luckily since our last update, we've kind of gotten—we still have our challenges with COVID (Coronavirus Disease) and everything else, but we've been able to work our staff and move them in places, so we kept operations going through, we've been working very hard with the HR (Human Resources) to move the recruitment to fill positions. That's been a main thing, is to get bodies in there so people could actually take time -off. Funding, we're working closely with Finance, R&D (Department of Research and Development). We're doing as much as we can to get fundings. That's a big initiative of this quarter, and we've been doing it. And then, of course— MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Deputy, can I just ask what grants have you guys applied for and secured? MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: So far we have Department of Health grant for $50,000 to do a pilot program for septic system that we might be able to use in rural communities. We have two active USDA (United States Department of Agriculture) Rural Development grants that are—hopefully they're going to be mostly grants, depending on how the but we have two of those active ones out and, of course, the WIFIA (Water Infrastructure Finance and Innovation Act). Letter of Intent was successful, and we're moving forward on that as well, of $49 million with our portion. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So those are related to Wastewater. I'm just curious, anything related to recycling, Solid Waste Division? MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Yes. And so the one that Seanne (Berring) just had mentioned with R&D, it's a substantial grant that we are working with R&D on, as well. So we need grant writers, I mean, we can't do it all ourselves at our department. But we are definitely working closely with R&D to get as much infrastructure Page 6 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 money as we can, if there is; but also, they have resources that we don't, with outside help. So, they've been very instrumental. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Chair, I'm going to pause here. I'll pause here. Thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: All right. Thanks, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Any other? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder? Or, Aaron? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Chair? CHR. RICHARDS: Then I'll come to you guys. Go ahead, Aaron. MR. CHUNG: I'll be really quick. You know, I just had a few short questions. This caught my eye, you know, about the home composting. Seven dollars a ton or something, what do you mean by that? (Note: At this time Recycling Specialist Sanne Berrig came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Sanne, $7 a ton from Kauai? You want to speak to that? MR. CHUNG: Home backyard composting, $7 per ton, ten years, but what do you mean by that? MS. BERRIG: This is similar to the program that—my work here before, like 11, 12, 13 years ago, we did the earth machines. So they just ran the numbers. They capitalized over ten years. The earth machine cost at that time, about $59, this is Kaua` i. And then they had a requirement of two presentations that people had to listen to, so then they figured out attrition, people moving away. But amount of people that over time, through a couple of—three surveys throughout ten years, so they didn't know how many people were still using them, that's how they came up with approximately $7 per ton, disposal cost, capital MR. CHUNG: So it just kind of demonstrates that it's you're getting a lot for your money, basically right? MS. BERRIG: Pardon me? MR. CHUNG: So this $7 a ton is used to demonstrate you're getting a lot for your money? MS. BERRIG: Absolutely. MR. CHUNG: Yeah. Page 7 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 MS. BERRIG: Absolutely. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, okay. Okay, I wasn't too sure. I mean, it's based on some kind of calculation, right? MS. BERRIG: Yeah, the cost of just kind of MR. CHUNG: Yeah, all right. All right. And I think weI can't think of anyone who would be against homecomposting, right? You know, in the past, and maybe somebody mentioned it, but in conjunction with R&D, they were distributing out these composting bins. And maybe we can do something like that, get real aggressive in that regard. I'm sure a lot of people, if not, the majority of people will embrace that concept. MS. BERRIG: Yeah. MR. CHUNG: I really—it only takes money, of course. But, you know, we can find MS. BERRING: Oh, yeah. That $7 a ton versus higher, $18 a ton. MR. CHUNG: Right, right. And so, Brenda, theI don't know if there's a question or comment, but with regard to enterprise funding, you know, the sustainable funding, it says that you guys are going to hire a financial consultant to look at this, or consider a financial consultant to explore the possibility of setting up an enterprise fund. So how long is that going to take? MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: You know, we were—we needI think what our idea is, is that we need to be more like a business, and we're not. We're currently not as much like a business, more like modeling like the Department of Water Supply, where they kind of run their operations like a business. You know, we're working with Finance right now, and to me they might be the one that spearheads this, since they're supposed to be in control of finance. I'm not sure how long that will take. It's going to take a while to get a contractor onboard. But I think they want to start to get the wheels moving this fiscal year. MR. CHUNG: Well, where are we on that? MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: They haven't started yet. They're still talking with other parties regarding that. MR. CHUNG: You know, I'm not saying I'm in favor of the enterprise fund or not, but we have heard of the concept of the enterprise fund ever since Ramzi got in, and now we're one year into this and we haven't even started the initial phase Page 8 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 of trying to possibly set up this enterprise fund, which would be considering a financial consultant, so it kind of concerns me. But, we can talk about that later. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Yeah. And like I said, we can only work seven days a week, 24 hours a day. MR. CHUNG: Yeah. And then— MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: We have a lot on our plate. A lot of emergency situations on the plate. MR. CHUNG: Yeah. Yeah, I understand that, of course. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: So, yeah. MR. CHUNG: And then, "Consider cost and savings of moving towards a municipal collection system," I'm 100 percent in favor of that. Just wanted to let you know. Okay, thank you. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, we're going to move off to Ms. Villegas, and then Ms. Lee Loy. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Chair Richards. Aloha, Ramzi. Aloha, Sanne. (Note: There were audio issues at this time.) CHR. RICHARDS: So, I'm going to Ms. Lee Loy, then come back. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for the presentation. I think, like Ms. Kierkiewicz, I was looking for that, you know, nuggets that we could grab on to. I just want to highlight the example I was looking for. And I really do kind of commend Julie on that Abandoned Vehicle Program because it really demonstrated the work that they're doing, how it's impacting community in a positive way. I say that because earlier today we approved a change order for the existing abandoned vehicle, and so it really began to click for me. She's doing the work. It's making a difference in community. That's why the way we expend our resources makes sense, and so we can advance that program. Like Ms. Kierkiewicz, that's what I was trying to do, like how do we lock and load all these different initiatives or programs to help make a difference in community? You know, I don't want to say it like this, but I think we need to go back and try again so that we can see how those things kind of click together for us. Because as we move into the budget cycle, as you guys come forward for your budget, it makes a difference. Page 9 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 And one thing I didn't see through all of this Solid Waste, and maybe I missed it, but we're having kind of medical waste right now. And I didn't see where that all folds into whether we recycle, which I don't think we can, right? Are we looking at a possible incinerator for dealing with this medical waste? And so there was that one piece for me that was missing, is how do we deal with some of this medical waste that we're seeing because of COVID? I really didn't have— MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Mike, do you want to answer that? Do you have any questions or answer? (Note: At this time, Acting Solid Waste Division Chief Michael Kaha came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KAHA: Aloha, my name is Mike Kaha and I'm the Acting Solid Waste Division Chief. So as far as medical waste, it's a concern. Right now, there are some regulatory issues with dealing with ash and whatnot, which would be some of the things that come out with an incinerator. So what's happening right now is all of the generators for medical waste, the hospitals and some of the veterinarians, and even homeowners, you know, private, (inaudible) and whatnot, we track these people coming in and we treat them—it's actually—for as much as you're hearing right now, it's actually a rather small amount in the waste stream, but it's very important, so we track every one of it, especially with the bigger generators like the hospitals. And then, we just manage it operationally at the landfill. The idea to go forward with some kind of incinerator, it's something that we could support from the County level; but it wouldn't be something that we necessarily would do from the County side, it would be more a public/private corporation, where the private side would say that it's something that they would follow through, and we would give them some direction as how we would deal with it. But then, there would be some issues with the ash. So at this point, we don't have any plans to deal with the ash, as far as what would come back from the medical waste. I hope that answered your question. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. No, thanks, Mike, I think that's some of the planning pieces that the department has to walk through. And there was just this one other one that stuck out for me, was advance disposal fee. You know, I hear all the return on investment and how great PV (photovoltaic), batteries, you know, these things are. And it's at the goal line, right? It just gets tossed. You know, I would like to see that as another—maybe an ROI (Return on Investment) on that, on the—what that would like if we advanced a disposal fee or an advance fee for those types of materials, what the Page 10 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 possible revenue generation could be. Those are my comments. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Ms. Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: All right. Great. First off, I want to start off by saying a huge mahalo to Ramzi, and Brenda, and Sanne; and I'm sorry, the gentleman that just finished speaking, sitting next to you, Sanne. I'm sorry, I'm forgetting your name. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Mike Kaha. MS. VILLEGAS: You guys kind of got the shit end of the stick, literally, dealing with the waste of humanity and having to answer all these questions that no one before you has really come up with a good answer for. So I just want to commend you for enduring what are really great questions. And that I wonder about myself, as I took a home COVID test yesterday, and my brain started rattling about would it be safe to try and make a trash -fashion costume? No, probably not out of that waste. But trying to bring some humor into what is otherwise incredibly frustrating. Sanne, thank you for your presentation. I can tell you've got kind of a frog in your throat and probably aren't feeling, you know, fantastic right now, but you've sat there and presented us with a long list of projects and programs that you've been working on. And I am so grateful that you have come back to work within the organization that is County government and to continue to guide us in our recycling programs. We have a long way to go. Ironically so much of what's happened globally, you know, is really requiring us to transition to a more circular economy focus, and I see that exemplified in all the things that you brought forward in that presentation. Ramzi, it seems that you are empowering the different heads within your department to activate and move forward on the concepts that they've been talking about. You know, we have to do better. Each one of us as humans needs to take better responsibility. I myself, you know, I'm the pot calling the kettle black, and I live in a glasshouse because I do not always manage my waste and my resources in the best way possible. It gets really overwhelming. But I want to thank you for your patience and your continued diligence in coming before Council and presenting these programs and projects. I plan on continuing to support you. I know that enterprise funds take time to organize and put together. We continue to navigate those things. Page 11 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 I also want to recognize that I myself am not your boss. The Mayor is your boss. I look forward to the programs that have been talked about here today, being continually supported by the Mayor and this administration. And that funding and the resources—may the manpower the womanpower flow to you, as all businesses right now are struggling to get people to be there to do the jobs that need to be done. So I just want to let you know that I look forward to continuing to work together, to identify the paths of least resistance, to the best solutions possible based on the information we have at hand now. That's all we can be responsible for. And so, I just want to express my gratitude. Yeah, let's keep moving forward together. I look forward to upcoming meetings and supporting all of this important work that you're doing because it is one of our greatest challenges. And as a County, as a State, as humanity in the world at -large, how do we manage our waste? They are resources that must be reutilized because there is no way. So, thank you for that. And with that, I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you. Matt, you have anything? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I have a question for the department. It was mentioned in the presentation, but the you know, what are doing about plastic or recycling for that period? Where are we at with that? MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: It's a challenge. I think Sanne tried to touch base on that. But you want to try it again? (Note: At this time, Recycling Coordinator Senna Berring came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. BERRIG: I guess I don't understand the question. What about plastic? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Well, I mean why don't we recycle glass? I'm just coming off of community meetings, and people are very frustrated that in their eyes the County does nothing, and I agree in a way. I mean, I agree and disagree. But ultimately, I as an individual keep my steel cans. I keep my plastics one, two, three, four, five. I separate them all, but in the end, it sits in trash cans. Ultimately there is no County facility that takes it, and it's upon the individual to take it to Business Services or somewhere else to have it taken care of, if that happens. I remember from previous discussions, in the last two years, that I believe it's about I want to say 120 tons minimum of plastic that is being sent to the landfill right now because we're not recycling, and I don't think that's the right number on this, I'm taking that from memory. It's a fairly large number that'sI mean, a Page 12 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 fairly large amount of truckloads going to Kona, and I'm just wondering, you know, what is our end -run on recycling? What are we doing? MS. BERRIG: So cardboard is being recovered and shipped to Asia. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yep. MS. BERRIG: Glass is being recovered and processed on -island. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yep. MS. BERRIG: With HI -5, the plastic is recovered and shipped to the mainland, the number one plastic. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes. MS. BERRIG: And other plastic, the County does not collect. There is no recycler on the island that would collect it. We can't pay them to take it. Eventually we can for enough money, if they keep it and ship it. But the world market right now is pretty saturated with plastic because the manufacturers keep producing new plastic. So we are also looking at—we're waiting before we make the decision on whether or not to collect, say a number two plastic, we want to find out about the life -cycle assessment. Because if it's doing more harm to the environment to collect number two, or whatever plastic, and to shoot it 5,000 miles, then I guess that might be a decision for Council or for the Mayor to make. But just because it seems like a fun thing to do or the best thing to do, if it's not the right thing, then I don't think that we should do that. That's my personal opinion. So plastic recycling, if we lived in a city or in a county where there's five million people, there would be a higher volume of plastic and there might be a recycler that was interested in that. But we just do not have the amount of materials to make it worth any commercial recycler to recover. So, it goes back to them. And I know it's difficult. I've got shop all the time, as well. It's to reduce buying plastic whenever possible. And I know it's extremely difficult. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It is. It is extremely difficult. Everything is individually wrapped, or plastic covered, or has a plastic insert to protect whatever it is that is in the box. I guess it's hard. It's hard as a dad watching everything, if it's not recycled. I know a lot of it is not. I don't know the number, but it's a lot of—it just becomes a lot of garbage, and it ends up in our landfills, and then we leave it for our kids. I just—I'm not saying anything you don't know, and I know that. I'm just really hoping that we can wrap our heads around a potential solution, and work with folks in the community. Page 13 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 And there was an effort to do the Puna Precious Plastics. I know there's someone recycling plastic in the pallets in Kona. There's things moving, but it'sI'm just hoping for more. MS. BERRIG: Yeah, but there's Puna Precious Plastics. They are kind of pau, but there's Volcano Precious Plastic, and they are doing a really great job. They have a Facebook page. They're acting as a business. But they have a great little model, really great model that's going on. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Is there a way for the County to interact with them? That it would be allowable under our DOH (Department of Health) rules and use of our facilities. That's something I talked with Bill Kucharski when he was Director. MS. BERRIG: We can explore that. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. That would be wonderful. Thank you. I know you're not feeling well, but I know your voice has been giving you a hard time, so thank you. Just as a concern, you know, individual and parent, just wanted to see where we're headed with plastics. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: I think Matt said something that is a reason why Sanne went into such detail with her presentation. Although we told our staff keep in honed in, provide the slides, and they can look at it on their own time. We get that from the public as well, you know, "What is recycling doing? What are they doing?" And so I think that's why—Sanne gets that lot, and I think that's why she went into such great details about what they're doing, and it's a lot. So thank you, Sanne, and thank you, Matt. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Brenda. I appreciate it. Just pushing, because we need to. We have to. It's our responsibility. Thank you. yield, Chair. Thank you for the time. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you. I've got two more comments here. Now we have—we've got two more conversations to have. We need to stay focused on this, so I will be cutting people off. Go ahead, Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Okay, super succinct. With regard to this consultant for the financial—setting up the financial consultant for the enterprise fund, did you guys put that in the budget or is that still supplemental at this point? MS.IOKEPA-MOSES: Ramzi? MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, just to try and answer Council Member Kierkiewicz's question. She's right, when I was hired, you asked the question, and I told you I dealt with a lot of (inaudible) processes, Pay -As -You -Throw, you know, land use Page 14 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 fees. And all these were brought up. It takes, again I'm going to say it, it takes a political will to allow and push that forward. You know, I know the discussion talked about it, you know, it wasn't in the budget last year, the budget wasn't prepared. It takes money. It takes legal navigation through the Hawai `i Statute to set the tax code to allow for monthly or annual charges to create the enterprise fund. So, it takes a village to get that. You know, I'll takeI'm very experienced in that field, but I need the resources and the funding to drive it. And Heather, to answer—Council Member Kimball, to answer your question, yes, we added it in the supplemental for this year. These consultants are the special ones. That's what they do for a living. I hired them over and over in my career. They come in. They understand the statute. They understand the legal navigation. They meet with the people. They meet with the public. They understand the cost of living. They understand the income of each individual household. And they put together a program that could benefit the County. We need your help to support the budget that's going to be coming before you, so we could start getting and to navigating different funding mechanisms, rather than just continue talking about we need funding. This is our challenge, number one, and priority number one since we stated. It's not a hidden agenda. We've been very, very open to everybody. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. Yeah, thank you, Director. I'm just going to take this opportunity to put my support behind this idea, trying to figure out sustained funding for Solid Waste Management is a challenge; and it's not because it's a challenge that's making the line equal zero at the bottom of income and expenses, there's also messages that you send with how you set up the enterprise fund. Folks here are not used to overly paying for their waste management. It's part of the property taxes, but it's not clearly part of what they pay for. And all of a sudden, if we start to introduce that, we could end up with unintended consequences like more things going into the gulch, and none of us want that. So it's more complex than just the mathematics, and so I support getting a consultant to do that work. In addition, along that same line, moving to a municipal collection system. When you first proposed that, I thought you were nuts. But more conversations I've had about that and how that actually interplays with recycling, and making sure that we're getting quality -sorted material, I actually really want to look at the financial possibilities there, the pros and cons. You know, my opinion on that has evolved to think that that may also be the best avenue for our County, as well. So just wanted to put that out there this time. Thank you for the presentation. I yield, Chair. CHR. RICHARDS: Mr. Chung. Page 15 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 MR. CHUNG: Yeah, I'm just going to take 30 seconds. Ramzi, during one of your presentations I asked you whether waste to energy was still on the table. You, best as I can recall indicated, "yes." Is that still the case? MR. MANSOUR: That is still the case. Actually, we have a slide. We were going to have Riley Sato come in and present it to you. MR. CHUNG: Okay. MR. MANSOUR: One of the slides—we've been working with a lot of different entities in exploring the waste to MR. CHUNG: We can talk about that later. Yeah, I mean, I just wanted to know. Okay, thank you. MR. MANSOUR: You know, definitely. CHR. RICHARDS: Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chung. Looking around, I'm not seeing any other lights. We're going to wrap this up, so we can get to the new one. What I heard through this presentation, primarily funding, staffing, and planning. Those are the big directives, and you touched on the possibilities for solving that. We've had a lot of conversations on that. We have a motion before us to close file on Communication 378.3. All in favor, please signify by saying "aye." Vote on Comm. 378.3: The motion to close file on Comm. 378.3 was carried Filed by the following voice vote: Ayes: Council Members Chung, David, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas, and Chair Richards – 8. Noes: None. Absent: Council Member Lee Loy – 1. Excused: None. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, moving on. Clerk, please read in Communication 436.2. Comm. 436.2: REQUESTS A DISCUSSION WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT REGARDING WASTEWATER DIVISION PRIORITIES, CHALLENGES, AND SOLUTIONS From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated November 3, 2021. Postponed: January 4, 2022 Page 16 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 (Note: There is a motion by Ms. Kierkiewicz, seconded by Ms. Lee Loy to close file on Communication 436.2.) CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. Now before I turn over to Ms. Kierkiewicz, we've had a lot of conversation. I've allowed latitude. I want to stay very focused on this. I don't want to chew the same ground, and I want to just focus in on what we're talking about here. So with that, Brenda, who is going to be giving this? Are you going to be giving this? I'm sorry. (Note: At this time, Deputy Environmental Management Brenda Iokepa-Moses came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: In order for us to be cautious of the time and having enough time for questions, I'm going to go ahead and whip through these slides, so we can have time to have conversations. I'd like to introduce my staff. We have Dora Beck here, she is our Chief, Wastewater; and we also have Eric Takamura, and he's our Deputy. So with no further ado. CHR. RICHARDS: Yeah, please take it away. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Okay. (Note: At this time, Ms. Iokepa-Moses provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, please see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or the video archives online from the County's homepage at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A hard copy of the presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 436.4.) MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: I'd like to have Eric come up here to the seat as well, and if you guys have any questions, we'd love to entertain those. (Note: At his time, Deputy Wastewater Division Chief Eric Takamura came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Brenda. Ms. Kierkiewicz, you started this conversation, as well. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. You know, I'd love to be able to hear from Dora, as well. I remember when I was an intern at DEM, I think you were one of the first women to be appointed into a Division Chief kind of position. So just kind of really appreciated your leadership, and wanted to hear your perspective on where things are and what your needs are at the division. Page 17 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 (Note: At this time, Wastewater Division Chief Dora Beck came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. BECK: Good afternoon to Committee Members. My name is Dora Beck. So my perspective, I've been here since 2008 as Division Chief, and experienced a lot of challenges of finishing projects, having the staff available, many times we have staff that come and go. Also, in operations you have folks who you know, every employee gets approximately about two months of vacation leave and sick leave, so they you know, they have a right to take that, and so if you don't have the redundant staff to be there to cover them, then that kind of leaves a hole in the organization to do work. But be that as it may, I believe in the past we've had good engineers, good hardworking folks. It all depends on who's there because, you know, they leave. But I think that's kind of what we need to focus on, is adding some redundancy to our staff, because we can't handle it like we used to. Things are changing. We've got the pretreatment program, that under an AOC (Administrative Order of Consent) that was effective November 30, 2021, that we need to get really working on, and so we need staffing and basically funding for that. The staffing, we have about—approved four positions to help out with that. So our next challenge is to recruit and fill those positions. And as mentioned, earlier in the slides that we need some help in HR (Human Resources) to move these recruitments along a little faster so that we can fill them and bring the people in that we need to meet some of these AOC compliance deadlines. Pretreatment is probably not the only AOC that's going to be coming down. We've had visits from EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) and DOH. And it's likely that we'll have more Administrative Order Consents on our collection system. Again there we need more staffing to clean and flush the lines due to CCTV (Closed Circuit Television) work, and to be able to assess what parts of the system we need to repair or replace. And speaking of collection system, there's also planning involved, which requires them an engineer, if we're going to expand the system on this island, especially to reach you know, to fulfill the 2050 mandate to close all cesspools, so that requires planning, engineering and planning for that. You have the treatment plants that need repair or upgrade, that had been sorely needing the attention that it requires to continue serving the public. So, we need more engineers to focus on that. So I guess bottom-line is, in the past we haven't had as much issues as we're having today from a regulatory standpoint, from a technical standpoint, all Page 18 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 challenges. And now, we're at that point—the facilities, collection systems are getting old. So, we need more people and more funding. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks for that high-level overview. I'm not sure who is going to be able to answer a question related to the programmatic EIS (Environmental Impact Statement) for Puna. Funding was awarded one year ago, allocated by the MS. BECK: Eric can. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Eric, give an update. MR. TAKAMURA: Eric Takamura, Deputy Division Chief for Wastewater. The programmatic EIS, we've got a few proposals in, got the scope of work approved by EDA (U.S. Economic Development Administration). We did a draft contract; sent it to EDA to see if it meets their contracting requirements. They had some comments. I included their comments that we—it's anti -lobbying or, the federal type of restrictions into the draft contract so it's in the hands of our contracts clerk. So I think maybe another month before it's all approved by the various departments before we can give them a notice to proceed. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So a contractor has been selected? MR. TAKAMURA: Yeah. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And you'll be able to announce that once the contracting bills are finalized? MR. TAKAMURA: Without any disruption by SHPD (State of Hawaii Historic Preservation Division), two years. With SHPD maybe taking a year, maybe three years once we start. It all depends what they do with their review and comments. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. I know that SHPD has agreed to expedite review anything related to Puna's recovery, and I would certainly consider this project to be that. And do hope that we can act with a little more urgency, especially because we see a growing population in that region that has a need for economic development, for medical facilities, and this kind of study would help identify what's really needed to support the population and sustained growth for the area. MR. TAKAMURA: Yeah, we don't think they would have that many comments because it's a programmatic EIS. If we follow the programmatic EIS with specific projects, each specific project will either go through an EA (Environmental Assessment) or EIS, and then they'll be more involved when we identify specific areas that we will use for our system. Page 19 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Look forward to the updates. Appreciate the high-level kind of overview of what's happening in the division. Thanks, Chair. I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, I'm going to be real fast again. Ramzi, first of all, I really want to thank you guys for highlighting the shortcomings of the department, I mean, unlike we've heard before. It's refreshing, I guess, to hear, because now we know what we need, right? And Brenda, you started off—you led off by saying, "A Wastewater Supplemental Budget request have largely gone unfunded due to limited financial resources." That's a kind of interesting statement, but I'm glad that you mentioned that these things were these requests were being shot down administratively, right? Because as far as I can recall, this body has always been supportive of whatever requests the Wastewater or your division has made. I can't recall shooting down anything that you guys have asked for. But if—we don't know what you guys need, and now it's become very apparent that you guys need more resources. But the second component to that sentence, is "Due to limited financial resources." What, we get more resources now, Brenda, or Ramzi? Are we anticipating more resources? Did we vote to these budget requests? MR. TAKAMURA: That's the increase in sewer fees to support additional staff salaries. MR. CHUNG: So you guys are going to make an aggressive move on collecting sewer fees then? Are we going to anticipate that? Because that's real manini actually, though. I mean, if you guys do get all the fees that we're entitled to, of course that's going to make a huge impact. But we haven't been able to make any in roads in that regard for many, many, many, many years; of all the years that we've been existence, actually. MR. TAKAMURA: Yeah, like we got about 14,400 user accounts. So if we raise the monthly fee by $6 a month, it will only generate an additional $1 million. That's only like eight positions. MR. CHUNG: Well, I think we all know what the problems are in collecting. Sc I'm just asking, are we anticipating you guys to make a move in—and I'm not trying to put the onus on you guys, but the buck stops with you guys, right? Are we going to get more collections, or are we going to be in the same place as we were last year, realistically? Because if that's the case, then this clause here, "Due to limited financial resources," is not going to change. So then, where are we going to get the money to fund these requests? Because, you know, we're not Page 20 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 shy about raising taxes. I don't want to say that, but we have done that, right? But is that what it's going to take? We're here to support you guys, okay? MR. MANSOUR: Let me add to this. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, go ahead, Ramzi. MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, definitely. Our current users are very limited, and this is what brings really the entire challenge to the wastewater system, because it's rate fee-based collection. So technically we're collecting about $44 a month, currently from the 14,000 -plus users or accounts that we have. As you see from the presentation, Maui County collects about $72 million annual revenue from this fund, with a population of 164,000. Our population is 200,000. We have 83 people working versus the 122. Plus we only collect $16 million. That's a fraction from what other counties collect for their waste treatment system. We have seven waste treatment plants. We have—and that goes back to the financial consultant, also in the Wastewater. When we did the assessment for a Hilo plant, and the shortage of that $300 million, the financial consultant run their models, and they figured we need to be at $90 per month to be able to offset the capital cost and the major maintenance cost to these facilities. Definitely, we're going to look into it. And we're hoping that we're going to generate more resource as we do the studies, so we'll have more stable structure of how we're going to navigate forward with choosing the right rate for the rate -payers. Not the tax, because it's not a tax. It's a fee. And therefore, we're also going to encourage developers as they come in to connect to the sewer-line—if they're nearby, so we could start increase the amount of connections, so our resources—and source of income revenue goes up. So, this is the plan. We need to get that expert onboard to lay out the master plan of how we're going to increase our sources of additional revenue. We have seven waste treatment plants all over the island, decentralized. With the conversion coming up of the 2050, with development taking place, we need to start encouraging people within the service area to connect to the sewer, to the waste treatment plants. So, our revenue goes up. MR. CHUNG: Ramzi, yeah, thank you or that. I didn't really understand all of it. Okay, let's look at this graphic that you guys provided, County of Hawai `i versus Maui County. The one missing component is the users. Yeah, we don't know how many people are being charged. So now you have a $44 flat fee for County of Hawaii, and $35 flat fee plus $4.50 per thousand gallons for Maui. And we don't know how that translates to a total bill, right? I don't know how many Page 21 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 gallons people use per month or every two months. Now, you also mentioned something about $70. What was that, Ramzi? MR. TAKAMURA: Your total annual revenue from collecting sewer fees is $71.8 million. MR. CHUNG: No, that's Maui, right? And then compared to a $16 million, right? MR. TAKAMURA: Yeah. MR. CHUNG: But we still—it's hard to compare because we don't know how many people are being charged the $35 flat fee and $4.50. If it's similar, then it says something. I don't know what it says, but it's not a good thing. Then my question is, does it rest with your department or the Council, or both? And if it's us, what do you need us to do? MR. MANSOUR: Definitely it's probably it's with Council, with us, and with our administration of course, because it's a team effort. It's going to impact the rate -payers. And we definitely need to make sure Council Members' supporting. That is their rate -payers. Also the future development, it comes through your desk as Council Members, and I urge that these developments within the sewer service areas, we must need to encourage developers to MR. CHUNG: Never mind the developers right now. MR. MANSOUR: Okay. MR. CHUNG: Let's just say all things being equalsorry, little longer than I thought—how do we get closer to $70 million from $16 million? And I'm saying, "All things being equal," just assuming that we have the same amount of users and things like that. How can we get closer to $71 million from $16 million? Please tell us. Is there something we need to do to help you? MR. MANSOUR: Right. We need to do the rates. First, you need to approve our budget. As the supplements come in, we need your support. Second, we definitely, as we come before you with Code changes, we need your support. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, what kind of Code changes, more or less? MR. MANSOUR: Distance to connection; rate fees, to allow us to increase the rate fees as we move forward based on how many units being utilized on the property. I know the current Code is ambiguous. We've just been challenged recently about a unit on a property that, you know, paying the fees, and we got Page 22 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 challenged over it. So definitely Code needs to be enhanced, and we're working on that, and we're going to be working with EMC (Environmental Management Commission) on the Code changes. That started. Peter had already done a draft, and we're going to circulate that. So the idea is you know, these are the things that we need your support on. Definitely navigate it through the constituents, that's very important. And let me add one thing, Maui County definitely have more users because they were under consent decree. MR. CHUNG: Okay. MR. MANSOUR: The difference between us and Maui and the City and County, they both went under consent decree. EDA was able to hire a financial consultant for them, navigate it through how to set up the system, and that's where they're at today, as a reflection of what they went through the year of that consent decree. So definitely, they were forced to have more customers connecting in. They increased the rates. City and County, they have—it's about $120 per month per sewer. They have probably quadruple the population we have, and they collected $120 per house, per sewer. A treatment is a treatment. It doesn't matter. When we have a treatment plant like Kealakehe and Hilo, it's similar to other treatment plants in the City and County and Maui. Because the treatment plant is a facility, it has the same component, therefore requires the same resources; and the same revenue comes in, otherwise we're going to be always running in the negative. MR. CHUNG: Ramzi, you know, this morning we had the Mayor's Office come up with their legislative priorities. Now if you recall correctly, you know, I had mentioned to you, which I also brought up with our legislators, the possibility of a Clean Water—enabling legislation to allow for Clean Water surcharges to be spread throughout the island. Have you guys pursued that idea, or talked to any of the legislators about that, or given it any thought? MR. MANSOUR: We have been talking about this, and many different ideas. It would take legislation and legal on maneuvering. And that's why I think hiring a consultant that understands the Hawai `i Statute, from navigating it through financial and legal strategies, I think that could be beneficial to the entire County and to your members. MR. CHUNG: Last question, only going take 20 seconds, Mr. Chairman. Does your department have a grant -writing division? MR. MANSOUR: No we don't. Page 23 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 MR. CHUNG: Okay. Okay, thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you, Chair. I'll be quick. I just wanted to put a plug in here for a comprehensive wastewater management plan. I've talked with Council Member Richards; I've talked with Ramzi about it also; and I've talked with Director Sako, from Finance. You know, we have an Integrated Solid Waste Management Plan. We have a Mass Transit Plan. This is one area where we don't have a plan. And when we looked to identifying priorities, justifying funding, justifying legislative action at the County or State level, having that plan in our back pocket I think would help move all of those things forward. So, I just wanted to make a pitch for that. Thank you, Chair. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Ms. Villegas or Mr. Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder? Again, I want people to keep mindful, we still have another conversation after this one. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I have no questions, Chair. Thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you. Ms. Villegas? Okay, nothing. MR.INABA: Chair? CHR. RICHARDS: Mr. Inaba. MR. INABA: Yeah, real quick. We all say, "real quick." You know, I have to agree with Council Member Kimball on the need for some type of plan. Like we have the Solid Waste Management Plan, whether we're able to accomplish everything, at least gives us a guiding document that focuses our priorities and our resources. EMC's Chair and Vice Chair had a meeting with Chair Richards and L As the Chair and Vice Chair of this Council Committee, and I think we are in need, I know, of those positions as it's been shared here in the presentation. But like Council Member Chung said, there's always been support from this Council, especially for the priorities for most departments. And hoping that when the budget is brought to us, some of those can—have already been put forth and supported by the Mayor's administration. So we're good to go because we are supportive of the need, and your folk's needs in addressing them. So, that's all I have for now. Chair, thank you. Page 24 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Mr. Chung, your light is on. Is that—you pau? Okay, terrific. I'm seeing no other lights on, so we're going to wrap this up pretty quick here. Couple quick questions for you, Brenda. Quick conversation on what you have presented before us. I do like the numbers. I do like the presentation what you just gave. You galloped through the presentation. We have the data to go back and look and ask questions. Up through 2024, 2025? If I'm reading this correctly, you have an ask for about 100 new positions and about $450 million in capital improvement. Is that an accurate statement? MS.IOKEPA-MOSES: Yes. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you. That gives us an—wait, I'm getting a "no." That's not accurate? MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: What slide is that? Number 12? (See Comm. 436.2.) CHR. RICHARDS: What I'm trying to do is get scope and scale on this. Real quick. MR. TAKAMURA: We're trying to add on 80 new positions over a five-year period. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, so it's an 80 total? MR. TAKAMURA: Yeah. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, so not 100, but 80 total over five years? MR. TAKAMURA: Yeah, the CIP (Capital Improvement Projects) money is kind of accurate. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, yeah. I got it. Based upon what I'm seeing here, so $450 million. As I recall from the presentation, RamziBrenda, I think you and I also had this conversation, east side we had about $160 million for Wastewater Plant Improvement, and bringing it back up to snuff. That's probably another $40 million for the pipelines, if I recall right, so that's $200 million. But up through 2024-2025, combining all your CII' projects, we're looking at $450 million according to this document. That's accurate, so that puts us in scale? I'm getting nodding. MS.IOKEPA-MOSES: Yes. Page 25 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 MR. TAKAMURA: That is accurate as we know it today. CHR. RICHARDS: Correct. I got it. Based upon this document. Got it. Okay, so that gives us scope and scale. And I completely agree with the statements about a planning document going forward. Ms. Kimball and I have had that conversation. There is some funding for a partial of that plan that we believe we can get forward, so there will be more conversation on this. I really appreciate this conversation on Wastewater because this is a big issue facing us. So with that, we have a MR. TAKAMURA: Can I make a comment? CHR. RICHARDS: Yes, please. MR. TAKAMURA: The Wastewater Master Plan, the way we plan, the Master Plan was by facilities plan. So when you hear us say Hilo Facility's Plan, that's the Hilo Wastewater Treatment Plant and the service area, we expect the plan to cover. So we're trying to update the Hilo Facility's Plan; Kealakehe Wastewater Treatment Plant and that facility's plan. We don't even have like Honoka`a, Kulaimano, Papa`ikou to update. But once we do the updates, then we can get this overall Wastewater Master Plan. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, and that's what we're talking of is the Master, which includes all these regional plans. So with that, we have a motion on the floor on Communication 436.2 of closing file. All signify by saying "aye." Vote on Comm. 436.2: The motion to close file on Comm. 436.2 was carried Filed by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Richards — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you very much. And we are in to the homestretch here. Clerk, Communication 554, please. Comm. 554: REQUESTS A DISCUSSION WITH THE SOLID WASTE DIVISION REGARDING THE COMPOSTING PROGRAM AND PROPOSED TIMELINE FOR COMPLETION OF THE FACILITY From Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated November 29, 2021. Postponed: January 4, 2022 Page 26 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 (Note: There is a motion by Ms. Lee Loy, seconded by Mr. Inaba to close file on Communication 554.) CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you. And Ms. Lee Loy, before I turn it over to you, this is specific to—we've a lot of conversations, and I want to stay focused in on this discussion, proposed timeline for a facility and the composting program. So, Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. As outlined in the communication, I'm looking for an update on the project. I'm not sure if it's Brenda or Ramzi, but go ahead. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: I think it will be a little of both, as we've been availing our ship here. So as you've heard from some of the testimony regarding the idea of having one large composting facility with the population number that we have and how big the island is, it doesn't seem like that's the route we should go. The update is that, you know, there was a land that was secured for this EA—it was done. The community didn't want it there, so then we looked at another—not we, but the administration looked at another piece, that was at Shipman. That didn't turn out either, is because they had a lot of—it wasn't favorable for the County. They had us doing all of this improvements to the land, but they wouldn't guarantee that they could cancel our contract at any time, so we couldn't—it wasn't a parcel that would be feasible for us to do. As we can't get into some of the particulars as we've been talking to you about, Councilman Richards has brought in to current contract negotiations, it looks like there has been reason why this contract hasn't been pushed through, through prior administrations. There are things that we need to look at. As we're coming in front of you asking for monies always, right? We're always asking for money. So we need to make sure that we're looking at the money going out the door; how much of our budget is being spent for a particular contract compared to how many people are being serviced by that contract, and whether it's favorable for the constituents out there to cover this kind of contract. So I'll let Ramzi also chime in on that, as well. Ramzi? MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, in addition, technically as we speak, what don't have a facility for the compost. That's what it is. We don't have a facility. There's a lot of study need to be done. Technologies and trends are changing. You've seen our presentation. Even EPA have changed because of climate change. Things are dynamic. Page 27 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 We're kind of blessed, actually, that we didn't have the facility because a lot of money could have been spent for non -good reason, and it was not well-planned. So our goal is to have, under Sanne, to be able to empower, or to work with other counties and stakeholders, and figure out what's the best way to move forward with—is it decentralized facilities or is it one facility where everybody drive to, which is going to be very costly. So there's a lot of unknown, and it's going to be looked at. So currently we don't have a facility. MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Ramzi. Thanks, Brenda. So in a nutshell, the department is re-evaluating a central composting facility. And I just want to be clear, because we have mulch going on. But a composting facility has yet to be realized? MR. MANSOUR: That is correct. Compost is one of the most important diversions of recycling. But we want to make sure we do it right. We want to make sure we do the mulch right. It's a commodity that the County have, and we want to make sure that the entire County benefits from it. MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Ramzi. Brenda, earlier on your Solid Waste Management Plan there was a current landfill diversion programs. There was a mention of greenwaste, but I was just wondering where that greenwaste is dovetailing into mulch or composting. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Ramzi, go ahead. MR. MANSOUR: I said—definitely yeah, the greenwaste is different than compost. The greenwaste is what makes the compost. For us to make a compost, we need organic food, which is foodwaste. Currently, as Sanne has presented, the hierarchy of the foodwaste have changed. Has a different trend now, because EDA realized that, you know, feeding animals is more important than creating compost. Because that's how they trend, is looking at, you know. So definitely so here is the greenwaste is just what you see on the mulch. Compost is greenwaste plus organic food; it's a combination of two. MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Ramzi. So the greenwaste will just continue to be greenwaste. And then we won't add the food piece for the compost? MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, there is yeah, two things to the equation. If you want to continue creating mulch, we need the greenwaste to grind it and create the mulch. If we wanted to—once we jump into the compost, then people will not have a greenwaste. So the people that are getting the mulch now, they're not going to find mulch anymore because now it's going to be compost. And creating a compost may create a different price, there will be subject fee, subject to the users. So people now, they're going to transition to start using the compost, if we secure the food, but it's going to come at a price. Page 28 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 So these are the things that we are navigating through to have a better planning on. But yeah, to answer your question, the greenwaste without food, once you create a compost, you need the organic food at a certain ratio. At a certain month, you know, you're looking at 100 days, or 30 to 100 days. It depends on the facility, in -vessel composting versus when wind -row composting. So it takes some time to generate the compost. Hopefully that answers your questions. MS. LEE LOY: No yeah, that clarifies. Because in my head it was we would still have compost, right? But then we would also have compost—well, we would have mulch and compost. But basically all of the mulching would then transmission over to compost, okay. So then in the Landfill Diversion Program solution it says, "Develop and implement a Master Recycler Composter Program." MR. MANSOUR: Our—yeah, it goes again to the people who testified earlier, a lot of interest decentralized composting facilities versus—well, in Hilo that everybody on the island had to drive hours and hours to get to. So the idea is, yeah, how are we going to do the composting, one composter versus multiple on the island? We have already on the west side some composting from the fisheries. For example, they're looking for they get the fish byproduct, and they're very interested in the County doing something. Or, are they going to do something? So definitely, we don't want to tie people's hands to innovation. If private entity going to come in innovation, and ideas, and capital funding, that will be awesome. That will be great for us because that will take away from the County to upfront the cost. So yeah, we've been talking to people and trying to figure out what's the best route for the County as a whole. MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Ramzi. And I guess the way I read this, is implement a Master Recycler Composting program, meaning one; but I hear you mentioning this decentralized option. So it's more of an overall plan rather than a singular entity? MR. MANSOUR: That's true. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. How much have we already spent on? I know we looked at a facility, or evaluated a facility, in Pana`ewa. Again, Brenda just mentioned the one out in Kea`au. How much have we spent already? MR. MANSOUR: I don't have that number from the prior administration, but I know the only one that we spent, on the EA for the Shipman land. There was some studies done to navigate what property. And I know staff were talking to staff after we took office, definitely that has been a challenging topic, about how Page 29 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 much money we're money we're going to secure and how much money we have so we could do more. Maybe we you know, I've heard in the $500,000 to $700,000, in that range. I don't have the exact number. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, Ramzi or Brenda, if you guys could get that over to us. If we were to look at what the community is asking for, would they have to go through the similar EA process at all these multiple sites? MR. MANSOUR: If it's yeah, definitely. You're probably going to have to do an environmental document, either EA or EIS. And it depends; if a private entity does it, you know, like an entrepreneur comes in and says, "Yeah, I've got to start doing this because I'm creating," you know, I'm just using a number, "x -amount of tons of fish byproduct, and "I want to create my own composting facility," but yeah, I want to help the County to bring in more of their stuff in." So there's one way you look at it now. You know, that will be within the private entity to handle. If a County decided to start building facilities and take it under our belt, we have to go through, definitely, the EA and EIS. MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Ramzi. Yeah, because I think if we could maybe hone in some numbers. If it cost $1 million to do the Environmental Assessment or EIS, and we want to replicate that at the County's cost, and I'm just throwing out the number ten island -wide, you know, that's $10 million. I just wanted to understand that better. But I also hear what you're saying, Ramzi, about if a private landowner, entrepreneur, philanthropist wanted to come in and do that for us, we wouldn't be spending that money on the cost, correct? MR. MANSOUR: That's correct. MS. LEE LOY: But at some point— MR. oint MR. MANSOUR: But we'll be providing the commodity for them. MS. LEE LOY: And that would be available—and would be turned over to the County to operate, or would be operated by that private industry? MR. MANSOUR: Currently yes, it would be—it's not subject to the Konno decision, so it will be operated by the private industry. MS. LEE LOY: Great, Ramzi, Brenda. Thank you so much. Chair, I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, thank you. You know, there are several things that we can agree on, Ramzi and Brenda. First of all, and I'm also bringing this from the Page 30 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 people who testified, we all think composting is a good thing, right, and Ramzi had said that earlier. I think we can all agree that we want to do what's best for the County, the people of our island, the taxpayers, right? We may have different views as how that is accomplished, but we all have that in mind. Now, this situation—and me, I don't want to go too far afield because I don't know all the information, and some of what I do know might impact litigation, if it gets that far, so I'm not going to even touch upon those things. But this situation is very similar to what we talked about today with the eminent domain resolution. Okay, the Council sets a policy, administration now fools around with it. They either say, "No, cannot. It's not good for the public. It doesn't match up with the public's best interest." There was a contract executed in this matter. It may not had been the best contract, okay. It was redone by the Kamelamela Corporation Counsel administration, and now this administration is looking to do something else, maybe doing decentralized composting. On its face, decentralized composting looks good, you know, it's a nice, feel good thing. You have different places in different parts of the island, thus reducing the need for long travel for those who are going to use the product. And, you know, you can implement the ahapua`a concepts. It just looks good. But there are economies of scale that have to be considered here. For anybody to put these facilities up, it's going to take some money. So you need, I think, at least at the beginning—and I'm not a business man. I've never been involved in—well, I am a business man, but not to this levelI think it would be better for us to start up with one centralized facility that's going to service, for all intents and purposes, mostly Puna. That's the reality of the situation. I don't know how much of a need there is in West Hawaii. There might, you know, at some point it might develop, but right now the need is in Puna. That's where the demand is. Now, Ramzi, I've got toI don't know where you got this information, you know, about—if they produce compost, that means they're not going to be producing mulch. Is that a fact? MR. MANSOUR: What it takes to make compost, is the greenwaste that is being produced as a mulch, as we speak. MR. CHUNG: What was that again? MR. MANSOUR: The greenwaste that's being produced as a mulch is going to be converted to compost. MR. CHUNG: Is that a fact? So in other words, there will be no more mulch available to the public. Is that what you're saying? Page 31 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Chair, I think the contract you are speaking of, it would have a minimum, that will be available for the public. But the few people that would be feeling it would be the commercial. There won't be enough to supply all. The mulch would be taken, and it will be turned into compost. Our current contractor will sell that compost and be the beneficiary of the profits on the compost. MR. CHUNG: Is that what you think? No, I'm just saying is that a fact or is that what you think? MR. MANSOUR: It's a fact. To create a compost you need the greenwaste and the food product. MR. CHUNG: Well, we know that. But I'm saying, does that mean we're not going to have mulch anymore? As all I'm asking. MR. MANSOUR: I think the way—it goes backI cannot talk about the contract, but it'scurrently the way it is, the greenwaste will be utilized for compost. MR. CHUNG: Because that's a huge assumption, see? Because what is being portrayed here is that these guys, HER (Hawaiian Earth Recycling), who are producing the mulch and who are also the contractors under the composting contract, are going to be victims of their own success. They're doing such a good with mulch, and now you're going to hold them against them, so that the mulch is provided and then we can't do the centralized composting. So that's something we're going to have to talk about later on, because I don't know if that is in fact a fact. MR. MANSOUR: We definitely need to talk about it. You know, that's why I think we need to look at the compost. How much compost do you think that we need to generate to continue with the mulch? Is it worth the amount of money? MR. CHUNG: I don't know. But that's why I asked, is this a fact or is this what you think? Because I also do know you know, I had a call from State Representative Richard Onishi, and I think he had a conversation with either you guys or the Department of Public Works regarding the illegal dumping of the big greenwaste. That's what I heard. That's what he told me. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Yeah, that's not true, okay, so I'm not sure why that keeps on being repeated. DPW picks up waste on the side of the road. We don't have any control over DPW. It's mixed with other stuff. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, I know it's not. Page 32 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: So it's not illegal dumping. It's not having anything to do with DEM. So we've already been out to the site with Onishi and his MR. CHUNG: So do you guys deliver the greenwaste to the mulching facility? MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: We do, at our cost. MR. CHUNG: The Department of Environmental Management? MS.IOKEPA-MOSES: Yes. MR. CHUNG: Okay. Not in conjunction with the Department of Public Works? MS.IOKEPA-MOSES: No. MR. CHUNG: Well, why can't it be in conjunction with them? MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Well, HER is still free to pick some of the compost, as well. MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, right. The issue that you're talking about, I already met in the field. Public Works, they do road clean-up. That greenwaste is contaminated, and that was rejected loads because they don't take contaminated loads. It goes again, you know, to an issue of accusation. It's untrue accusation. MR. CHUNG: Okay. Well, okay, we'll leave it at that. I don't want to need untrue accusations. MR. MANSOUR: Yes, let's leave it at that. MR. CHUNG: The last thing though, has to do with the invasive species and the nexus with the Department of Health, okay. My understanding, and I could be wrong because I don't want to be spreading misinformation, is that any time you have a distribution of compost, it has to get the approval of the Department of Health. Correct or not correct? MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Distribution or compost or distribution of the mulch, because we don't have compost? MR. CHUNG: Compost, compost. MR. MANSOUR: You have to be permitted through the Department of Health. MR. CHUNG: Right. Page 33 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 MR. MANSOUR: Where there is certain certification that you need to do to have an "okay" before you do any composting; and that requires monitoring the compost take samples, run it by a lab, share the results with the Department of Health prior to distribution, to make sure that you're not putting something out there that can harm the people. MR. CHUNG: Right, the invasive species. And other things, right? MR. MANSOUR: Invasive species are different. We're talking about compost. When you start putting food, organic food, that creates different pathogens, different viruses. The invasive species, currently what they do is just—you know, they let the natural course, 15 days to process, to get rid of the invasive species. But when you turn it to compost, you're looking at way longer than 15 days because you're introducing different pathogens and viruses when you start mixing actual organic food into the greenwaste. And we're looking at the possibility of introducing biosolids. That's the waste to energy and waste to reuse out of (inaudible). The biosolids is a great material to mix with the greenwaste to enhance and make soil, and that comes with at a higher requirement from the composters. MR. CHUNG: I guess the final question would be this, and I don't know if you can answer this, because it has to do with the contract and the legal responsibilities. How much are we on the hook if we try to cancel this contract? MR. MANSOUR: I cannot answer that question. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, I understand that. All right. Okay, thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, thanks, Mr. Chung. Ms. Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Mahalo nui, Chair. I just have a few questions. Sorry if this first one was answered earlier, but I didn't hear it. Is there a minimum requirement or ceiling as to how much mulch HER should be providing the County? MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: 300 tons per month. They have one day that they offer that to the public, and 300 tons is what they're ceiling at. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: For each location on East and West Hawaii? MS.IOKEPA-MOSES: Yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Is there anything preventing us from converting some of that greenwaste into compost? HER already does that through their Oahu operations, but I'm wondering if there's anything that gets in the way. Page 34 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: I think right now that free mulch is highly popular with our community. I mean, if we take some of that away, there are longer lines. That people won't get that free commodity. When you turn it into compost, you're talking about a commodity that our current contract will charge the public for. So you're maybe taking a resource that currently is going free to the public and turning it into something that they will charge the public for. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That's in the existing contract. But if they offer compost, it would be at cost to community, not free? MS.IOKEPA-MOSES: Yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Interesting. Final question, I remember Director Kucharski, at the time, coming before this Council. I think Council Member Lee Loy had brought forward a communication to get an update on where we are with the composting facility. And we were in the throes of COVID and everything was shut down. Everything was shut down. No tourists, folks not going to school, and oftentimes this was the foodwaste that the County was counting on in order to activate the compost facility. And so, clearly we're open again. Tourism is raging. Kids are back in school. I've got to imagine there's a lot of foodwaste. Director Kucharski did talk about some kind of plan for studying organic waste, and how we make sure we as a County, in partnership with the HER or whatever entity, on people to capture that and use that at a composting facility. Are you folks working on any type of plan regarding organic waste and capturing it? MR. MANSOUR: I think Sanne kind of addressed that on her presentation. Yes, she will be working on—most of our organic food now, from restaurants and hotels is going to piggeries. You know, they feed the animals, and that's a fact. That has not changed. So the idea is—and they were having shortage even prior to COVID. That's why they've been trying to navigate through, how we're going secure organic food to create the compost. Some of the residents, they do compost in their own backyard. So the challenge is, how can we secure that organic food? She's going to be working on it. She's going to be empowered to start working with the stakeholders. To navigate, figure out if there is a plan. If there's no plan, compost may be very minimum on the island. If the highest priority based on climate change is animal feed, then we've got to continue with that. Otherwise, you're going to look at the economy to scale. If we only have 300 tons to Hilo, is it worth spending $2 million on a facility for 300 tons? And if we're going to keep the greenwaste and just capture a small amount, then it's not going to add up financially. Page 35 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 So, it's not only financially. It's also we have to look at the interest of the taxpayers countywide, not just certain areas. I think there is so much interest countywide. You know, on the west side, they love to do compost, probably as much or more than the east side. The Ka`u district, they love to do that, as well. So definitely, we need to look at it from a countywide vision rather than just a narrow vision. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: We've got to find a way forward. I remember being at community meetings since 2003, where a community said, "We want compost." It's, oh my God, 2022, and we still haven't really solved for it. So I'm hopeful with Sanne kind of leading the way in the plan but I want to push you guys a little bit more. I think where you talk about taking some of the greenwaste, and not just converting it into mulch but converting it into compost, it can be done; but I honestly think the ball is in your court, I really do. I think that a simple modification to the Department of Health permit is what's needed, and I really, really, really would like for you guys to explore that. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Hang on. Before I go there, let me go check. Matt or Rebecca, do you have anything? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I have a question. CHR. RICHARDS: Go ahead, Matt. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm trying to stick to this composting program and timeline, but I think everyone's kind of branched away from composting and timeline for the time being. So I'll keep it as close as I can, Chair. CHR. RICHARDS: Matt, let's stick to what's on the agenda, please. I don't want to branch out and have that conversation. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, yeah. Ramzi, we're talking about composting, we're talking about mulching. It's across the board. I have a very simple question. Do we back tow or backhaul greenwaste from our Kona facility to our Hilo facility? MR. MANSOUR: So, I guessI don't know if I really could answer that question because it's a contract -related question, so I'd rather not. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: DoesI mean, can you talk about our current contract? Because we have to have something in place right now. Page 36 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 MR. MANSOUR: Well, that's part of the contractual. Yes, that's the stuff that we cannot talk about. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So we can't talk about what we're doing currently? CHR. RICHARDS: This is part of the contract. And this has been requested, well, actually directed by Corporation Counsel. We don't discuss the particulars. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, then I'll just make a statement. This will be pretty simple. From what I understand, you had a huge amount of greenwaste that could be used in Hilo, but it's sitting in Kona. Kona doesn't use the greenwaste as fast as we can use it in Hilo. So if it were possible, if we could bring the greenwaste from Kona to Hilo, and empty trucks coming back from when we dump our rubbish from the Hilo side and the Kona side at the landfill, we can greatly increase our ability to output mulch for our community here in Hilo, who is crying out for it, and do some real good for our community. If that's not in our current contract, it should be; if it is, then good. It allows us to expand what we can do for our community. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Simply not getting into the contract, but that's a very—in concept, that seems like a great idea. The problem is we have truckers that go around the island three times in a day to pick up our rubbish. They are there by the minute. They leave the gate. They have certain places they have to be to pick up the trash. They go to the next place. They get all the way back to around the island. They do that three times. We don't have time to clean out the rubbish truck to pick up mulch, to load it, to unload it. So in concept that would seem like a very simple solution. I'm just going to leave it that it's not a simple solution, And, yeah. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Oh, okay. But I'm concerned that we may not be backhauling currently. And if we can't talk about the contract, we can't talk about the contract. But just based on the community concerns and what I've heard from my community, that's the question that's being raised. And I understand your answer. I've got to think there's a way, efficiently that we could pull that off. I was wondering about the DOH requirements or federal requirements on doing that kind of a thing. But, it just makes sense. Second, composting -wise, and this has been ask from the community, but I'm mean, you've given all the testimony that I've received, it really seems like people are on the fence about one main composting facility. I'll raise the question not the question—I'll just raise a concern. If we start taking in foodwaste because, you know, I have a cafe and we hold the foodwaste for pig farmers, currently. But when that food sits, it comes hauna. And so I am Page 37 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 concerned that however we plan on accepting massive amounts of foodwaste from different places across the island, we are going to create a stinking mess. And I would love to see that turn into compost. There's nothing better we could do for our community, but I do have some concerns about how we're actually going to pull it off. I'm not really looking for an answer. I'm just putting that statement out there for you. And I'm just going back to my first comment, we've got to do more to get East Hawaii loaded with mulch. The line is incredible in the mornings. People are waiting, you know, at a point patiently, but they're getting frustrated with what we're offering, and I just think we can do more. However, we can. Just throwing that out there for everybody. MR. MANSOUR: Thank you. That's well -taken. But you're right, odor is going to be a major issue as we move forward. Very well -taken. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay. Thank you Chair for the latitude. Appreciate it. Mahalo. CHR. RICHARDS: Yeah, thank you. Mr. Inaba. MR. INABA: Yeah, thank you. And I hear this—I drove to Hilo special last week to be there at 7:00 o'clock in the morning to watch the mulch distribution, and I'm happy I did. The need is clear in East Hawaii, but there is also a need here in West Hawaii; and the fact that a lot of the mulch is being brought down from Waikoloa here to Kealakehe, and we don't have it consistently, is what I always get calls about, "There's no mulch." There is a need here, and I do need to point out and advocate for the need of the West Hawaii people, when it comes to the mulch. The process that is happening in East Hawaii with that mulching facility is incredible. Is hauling greenwaste from Waikoloa to East Hawaii environmentally responsible? Probably not. So, I don't have the answer. But I know there is a need in a need here in West Hawaii, as well. So moving forward, I'm not sure what the best solution is, based on all the testimony we received, for a noncentralized operation. At the same time, we don't spare ourselves thin, and I guess that's where we rely on your professional background and advice on this matter. But there's a need everywhere. So, I want to point that out. Chair, I yield. MR. MANSOUR: I agree there is a need all over the island. It's not just one area versus another. And I think one of the testifiers, I forgot his name, could be Richie. He said that it's going to take about $9.5 million to decentralize facilities around the five districts, and he seems like he's an expert on that, as well. But yeah, there are a lot to look at to satisfy all of our constituents, county -wide. Page 38 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Ramzi. Moving on, Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, thank you. And, Mr. Chairman, I'm glad you let Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder have some latitude on that matter because that is one most important things, the supply of the greenwaste to the mulching facility, wherever it may be. And, you know, Brenda, thank you for being honest about what the logistic problems were, but you could have brought that up earlier too. That's the sensible thing. And I think that's what's happening. Maybe I shouldn't say it, but it's supposed to be taken from West Hawaii and being distributed to produce mulch, I think, because it would be the sensible thing to do. But whether they're getting enough of the greenwaste to produce the mulch, that is another question, and maybe we shouldn't go that far afield on it right now, too. But these all play into the greater scheme of, you know, what is going to serve the public good. Thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Yeah, thanks, Mr. Chung. And I see, Ms. Lee Loy? MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, thank you for this second round. So just asking a question, what was the timeline for the delivery of a composting center, or compost facility, under what we heard from the previous administration? MR. MANSOUR: Apparently we don't have a timeline because we don't know how that plan is going to look like. First, we need to plan ahead; understand the needs, the amount of organic food that we have; how we're going to mix the organic food. So we have to have a plan before we're going to build a facility. So, we're trying to do it right. We cannot have a facility without understanding our commodity, and what's going to make the compost, and how we're going to generate it, and how we're going to go about it. We want to make sure that we have time to create the compost. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. So I'm try and ask that a little different way. Under the contract that we currently have, we have was delivery of a composting facility required? MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: The initial contract, what they supplemented, I think they tabled that idea. Right, Ramzi? MR. MANSOUR: Well, it goes back. This is a current contract. We cannot discuss, so I'm sorry. CHR. RICHARDS: Yeah, I don't want to get into the contract, as it's been directed. Page 39 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 MR. MANSOUR: I don't want to get into the contract either. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. MR. MANSOUR: But I kind of gave you the concept, you have to have a plan before you get a facility constructed. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. And I just want to clarify. Promise, Tim, one last question, maybe two. The mulch that is currently offered free monthly, Ramzi, when we move over to composting, is that mulch no longer going to be available? Under the contract I know we're tip -toeing around this, because that mulch that's required, the 300 tons, I'm having like a heartburn over that because I understand that to always be the community package. The community give is this 300 tons. But what I keep hearing, or misunderstanding, is that goes away, will we go to composting? Is that your understanding? MR. MANSOUR: Compost requires greenwaste and organic food. I'm not going to get into the contract, but I'll give you the concept. If you have 300 people 300 tons now going for our mulch, how do you think you're going to make the compost? So the question is, do people what mulch or they want compost? If they want mulch, then that's a totally different strategy; and we need to focus on that, to make sure we deliver the mulch to the people that needs it, and that's going to become the service. If we're going to start charging for compost, yes you're going to be losing mulch; because what mulch does is convert to compost when you add organic food and process it. So yes, it's a fear. It's a fear to the people getting free stuff now. It could be a fear. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I guess— MR. MANSOUR: Because you're never going to be—you're not going to have the 300 tons of mulch. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: Okay, Ramzi, I just got a text not to talk about the contract. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. Okay, I just want to say thank you for all of my colleagues, and I'm glad even Mr. Inaba went out. Because that 300 tons literally goes out in an hour and a half. But there's still mulch there for commercial day. And that's why I'm really not understanding how we just don't have enough. And then one final question. If a private entity does a composting facility under this decentralized model, they would need to secure a Department of Health permit. Is that correct? Page 40 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 MR. MANSOUR: That is correct. Let me make sure that we're clear on it. For compost, you need a greenwaste and mulch that's going to come from some waste. So if we even keep the 300 tons, and that's the max we're getting now, where is that mulch? There's a lot of technical stuff that needs to be addressed. I just want to make sure that it's clear. MS. IOKEPA-MOSES: The decentralized sites, we need a Department of Health permit. I think that was your question? MS. LEE LOY: Yes. MS.IOKEPA-MOSES: Yes. MS. LEE LOY: And then, would they be eligible for funding for that decentralized unit like through other federal program? MR. MANSOUR: I'm sure there is a possibility of getting funding. Because once again, we have to plan it. If it becomes a county -owned, decentralized facility, we definitely would be an access in the funding. If it becomes a private entity, not willing to fund it and do it because it's a commodity and they could turn it to a profit, then they would probably they still need a Department of Health. Everybody needs a Department of Health permit. That's yeah. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. MR. MANSOUR: But the funding, it could be the government definitely probably will have more access than the private is willing to build the funds, we need to entertain that option, as well. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. Well, I'm sure you guys will explore that. Because I'm just walking down the path of, if they secure government funding, then that's a (Hawai`i Revised Statutes Section) 343 trigger. And so this idea of a decentralized facility might look good on the service, but later on we might end up having some shortcomings because we didn't do the EA, EIS, for use of state or federal grant monies. I'm just—I'm sure you guys will work it all out and pencil it all out. I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Yeah, thanks, Ms. Lee Loy. Ms. Villegas, you haven't spoken. Do you have any questions? MS. VILLEGAS: Not that needs to be talked about right now. I support the constituency that's bringing forward the need to decentralize a composting facility. I also highly support and encourage members of our community to get in touch with how to compost their own waste. MR. RODENHURST: Okay. Page 41 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 MS. VILLEGAS: People were up in arms, that they couldn't drop their greenwaste during COVID. And I'd like to remind everyone their responsibility we have, personally, to take care of our waste. Government, yes we pay taxes; yes, but we also have a personal responsibility for how we manage our own waste and reduce our waste streams. I also visited the facility. I thought the mulching facility has done amazingly well. We had long conversations about how there's dry mulch all around the island, but they can't get it to the east side to make this higher quality that's picked up. So we actually don't have the capacity to pick up this higher quality mulch product here on the west side. I would love to see something like that happen. Ramzi and I talked about the potential for using that R-2, R-1, water to treat some of the mulch right across the street at the dump facilities, thus maybe potentially allowing for us to increase the quality of that. There is all kinds of things that need to be explored. And I'm really, really grateful that these conversations are happening. That we are at a place as a society. And as this is the Big Island, we can skip the last 30 years of being so far behind. We can actually look at what municipalities are doing, and hope to get us there. So thank you, Ramzi, for your leadership. Thank you, Brenda for your patience. It really stinks to be held under such confined parameters. Literally stinks. But to be trying to make lemonade out of lemons essentially, and compost out of crap. So, these are not issues unique to our County. These are issues that the planet is facing and humanity as a whole. So I am hopeful that not only will these conversations continue, but that the solutions will present themselves along with the partners to guide our County towards where we need to be, in embracing a circular economy and transitioning our waste into resources. And with that, I yield. CHR. RICHARDS: Thank you. Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, real quick. You know, Ramzi has deduced that because they're producing 300 tons of mulch a month with the supply of greenwaste that they have, it leads to the conclusion that this mulch, because it's based on a certain amount of supply, will have to be used for compost. I beg to differ. I don't have any proof on that. But I'm going to say right now, I'll probably put money on it, that that is a wrong deduction. Think about it, Ramzi, what happens here is if it's not correct, it's going to draw a wedge between those—or at least cause people who are in favor of mulch to now not support compost. If you are correct, then that is a concern. But I think that is Page 42 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 not a correct conclusion. So somebody has to get—put their heads together and see if that is in fact correct or not correct. MR. MANSOUR: I think that's exactly my point, is we don't have a plan. Where is that extra mulch is going to come for the compost? And where's the organic foods going to come from? MR. CHUNG: And that's why Mr. Kaneali`i-KI einfelder's point was very important, as I said earlier. But anyway, okay, thank you. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay, thank you, Mr. Chung. So with that, I'm seeing nothing else. Before we wrap up, Ramzi and Brenda, thank you so much for being here and answering a lot of questions. Again, trying to put things in scale. Previous numbers that I received from Environmental Management and Solid Waste, about between 500 and 600 tons a day going into our Pu`uanahulu, of which about 50 percent is organic matter. Is that a true statement? MR. MANSOUR: I don't have the exact number. I don't think it is that high on the organic foods percentage. But we could get back with you on that. CHR. RICHARDS: Can you please get that number and get back because would put in scale what we're trying to talk about to deal with? MR. MANSOUR: Yes, definitely. Yes. CHR. RICHARDS: Okay. So with that, we have a communication motion on the floor, 554, to close file. All signify by saying "aye." Vote on Comm. 554: The motion to close file on Comm. 554 was carried by Filed the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Richards – 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kimball –1. Excused: None. Page 43 RAWEEMC-15 January 18, 2022 ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 6:13 p.m., Mr. Inaba moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Richards — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kimball — 1. Excused: None. CHR. RICHARDS: We are adjourned. Approved: � # C Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Chair Regenerative Agriculture, Water, Energy and Environmental Management Committee HR/na (Date) Page 44