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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PWMTC 2022/05/31 2020-2022 Committee on Public Works and Mass Transit 20th Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii May 31, 2022 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Public Works and Mass Transit ORDER: was called to order at 4:15 p.m. in the Council Chambers, Hilo by Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Chair Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Heather Kimball, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (via videoconference from Kona, came in later) Absent& Excused: Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 795: REQUESTS A DISCUSSION WITH ABBEY SEITZ OF PLANNING FOR COMMUNITY AND SALLY ANCHETA OF THE HAWAII PUBLIC HEALTH INSTITUTE REGARDING THE KEAUKAHA ELEMENTARY QUICK BUILD PROJECT From Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated May 11, 2022. Motion to Close File: Mr. Inaba moved to close file on Comm. 795. Seconded by Ms. Kimball. (Note: At this time, Abbey Seitz, Planner and Graphic Designer at SSFM International; Sally Ancheta, Community Coordinator at Hawaii PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 Public Health Institute; Kawehi Mahi-Roberts, Native Hawaiian Artist; and Natasha Soriano, Planning Transportation Planner, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. LEE LOY: We have Abbey. Aloha, Abbey, and Sally on Zoom. I think we also have Kawehi who is our artist for the project, and here in chambers, I have Natasha Soriano. I guess, Abbey, Sally, ifI'm not sure who is going to lead this conversation, but please take it away. MS. SEITZ: Aloha, Council. Thank you so much for having us today. I had a short presentation to give on the project, and then I thought we could open it up for question and answer if that is all right. I'm going to share my screen here, so I can give a really brief background on the recent project that we just completed. Great. So mahalo again for having us. My name is Abbey Seitz. I am the consultant and a small part of a very big team who is working on the Keaukaha Elementary Quick Build Project. As Council Member Sue Lee Loy mentioned, our client at the County, Natasha Soriano is present at the meeting today. We also have Sally Ancheta with the Hawaii Public Health Institute; Kawehi Mahi-Roberts, who is our Project Artist on the call today; and then we have others watching, from PATH (Peoples Advocacy for Trails Hawai`i); as well as Blue Zones Hawaii, that were part of this team. So again, mahalo for having us, and we're excited to share this recent project with you. So today I want to keep fairly brief,just want to give a bit of a little of an overview on the project, how it came about, and some of the engagement that we did with the community to get feedback about the improvements that were recently installed. We will be handling it over to the project artist to give an overview about the street art designs and some of the background and kind of the inspiration for the street art that happened as part of this project, and then we'll be sharing some,just photos and also kind of a—some lessons learned from the actual installation that happened just two weeks ago. (Note: At this time, Ms. Seitz, Ms. Soriano, and Ms. Ancheta provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the subject presentation, please see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or the video archives online from the County's homepage at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A hard copy of the presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 795.1.) MS. SEITZ: So, I'll leave with that. And just a big mahalo again for everyone. You know, this was a big undertaking and has been championed by Council Member Sue Lee Loy, and we're really grateful to her and just the entire team for coming together on this project. So I wanted to open it up now for any questions Page 2 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 or comments, or even from our team as well if I missed anything. So mahalo again. MS. ANCHETA: Thank you, Abbey. Abbey, if you don't mind just keeping the PowerPoint up; if we can go back one slide? And aloha to County Council Members. Aloha, Council Member Lee Loy. Mahalo nui for inviting us to share today. I am Sally Ancheta with Hawaii Public Health Institute, also a small member of this wonderful strategic team that participated with the Quick Build. I just wanted to give a small context to the group about why this design plan was chosen and also how it was communicated with Keaukaha Community. Where you the gentleman in the third picture running (see slide 19),prior to the delineators being installed, there was parking that was going all the way against the fence, and so students would actually have to walk behind the cars, small keiki, and they would be right in the roadway almost, trying to get around the cars to get into one of the gated areas to get onto campus. So with our walk on it, back in September 2021, we were able to really look at this design and see how we could possibly improve without taking away parking. And also, changes are always uncomfortable, so we're fortunate that the changes started—came the last week of the school year, and hopefully it will be embraced when school returns in the summer. But I also wanted to share that this is a temporary project, so the community can always give us feedback and let us know do they like it, do they want to see other changes. And we shared with the Keaukaha Community Association that this is their project and all of the community, so it's nice that they celebrate this. They welcome these changes; and asked for more than what things we were asking for, they wanted more delineators and they wanted this project to really create the space so that everybody could use it and feel safe using it. So pushing strollers, to jogging like you see here, to biking. It was a real celebratory space. And we could see this possibly happening in other communities as we move forward. Thank you. If there are any questions, we'd be happy to answer anything for the County Council, or audience. CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Abbey. Thanks, Sally. You know, I'm going to go ahead and open it up to Council Members. But I really want to highlight that— you hatyou know, this was done all during COVID (Coronavirus Disease) so that—you know, all of our community partners were able to flex throughout this process and still pull it off, I think, speaks volumes to how important this was to the community. And Abbey kept using the description "piko,"which is what Keaukaha school for the Keaukaha community. It really is the center of the community there. And the number of volunteers that came out over the weekend to get this project done really does speak volumes to how special Keaukaha school is for that entire community. Page 3 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 I also wanted to thank Kawehi for offering her,just artistica) talents. Kawehi, you may have not heard it, but Council Member Inaba immediately said, "Oh, I would love to see that kala design on a t-shirt," and I shared with him that was actually something that other community members asked about, was elevating a lot of the street art onto t-shirts in which that the community could use. And finally, you know, I share this with my colleagues because this can be something that can be replicated in any school, in any district, whether it's main street or around a park or around a school, there are so many opportunities and tools available; not only with the grants that are available, as Natasha was just so instrumental at pulling together for us, but the community engagement and involvement. So with that, I see one light on. Ms. Kimball, go ahead. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you. And I wanted to be first to like raise my hand and say, "Hamakua." I would love to see this in Downtown Honoka`a. You know, we've recently taken over that roadway from the State. I think that's a beautiful spot to start thinking about these art ideas. I can't tell you folks how much I love this project, for all the different aspects: the health aspect, the artistic aspect, the community involvement aspect, it's all beautiful. I just want to mahalo all of you, and congratulate everyone on a really successful project. I have one simple question, how long do you have to wait? How long does the paint last? How soon do you have to repaint? That's it. MS. MAHI-ROBERTS: Okay, I'm going to assume the question is for me. Repainting, I'm not sure. I will say that in the two weeks since we installed, like the project and had the community engagement date, it does get run over by like children that are biking around. So it's fine by me, because I know that that's like what's going to happen. Like it's going to get driven over bikes, children on their bikes and stuff. But if I wanted to repaint it, I'd say if I'd have to repaint it, will just be like be within a day. Within a day I'm having it down because it's just how often kids come down and are biking in the area. And in fact, like every day when I'm down there painting, including today, there are children that just come over all the time. Children and adults that just bike around the corners that I'm working on. So I guess that would be my answer. That would be the simple answer, is that if I want to repaint it, it would have to be the day after. MS. SORIANO: So I'll add a little bit more. In general, a lot of these projects are temporary in that they would be placed in somewhere that's going to be repaved or reconstructed. So in some of these examples that Abbey had shown earlier, Maui, there's that big painted area; and I had asked them, "So, what is your maintenance plan? What's going to happen next," and then they were like, "Well, actually there's no maintenance plan. That's staying up until they come back and do a reconstruction project," and the idea is that it's going to be a raised bulb out. Page 4 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 I don't necessarily think that's necessary here, but that paint is pretty strong. I think, in general, I think maintenance would be just more cleaning. There are tire marks and stuff as Kawehi said. But we try to power wash some of the stuff outside, the paint that got outside, and that buggah is strong. So I think it will be a few years before even having to actually do any touch-up, especially since we did a pretty good job, I think, of deterring cars from going over. So that's yeah. MS. KIMBALL: Great. Thank you for that. And again,just a wonderful project, wonderful work, and beautiful design. So thank you all for making it happen. I yield, Chair. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kimball, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Just real quickly. Your artwork is amazing. It's a beautiful project, and it's well done to everyone who put some effort into this. This really does a lot for our community and looks beautiful. So mahalo. Thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I mean, I'm all over this. I'm a huge fan of public art, and just so glad that we were able to add a bit more vibrancy, while also tackling some critical safety issues within the Keaukaha community. Sorry if I missed this earlier, but how often can we apply for this particular Quick Build grant, and what was the overall project cost for this particular activation? MS. SORIANO: So this particular project actually was initiated by DOH (Department of Health). They gave us the money, so I didn't have to go seek that out. Unfortunately, they don't I think it was kind of right before COVID happened, and so they had a lot of money around SNAP-ED (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program Education) funds. I've been thinking about this a lot, and so there are other sources. I think one great resource might be TAP (Transportation Alternatives Programs) grant, and that's something that even communities can apply for, so it doesn't necessarily have to be the County applying directly for those grants. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: TAP grant? MS. SORIANO: Oh, the TAP grant. So the TAP grant is the Transportation Alternatives grant. So I'm trying to work with them too, and discussing how that money can be used for a project like this, because this is slightly construction but not quite construction. It's really more just buying supplies, and then sweat equity. The money given overall for this project was $50,000. I do say a lot did go to consultant and engineering because there were so much delineators. Page 5 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 I will say, and Abbey kind of downplayed it, this project really, in essence, were three Quick Build projects in one, since we did three large corners the amount of delineators. So we put in a lot of work. I put in a lot of extra work. You know, something like one corner can be tackled pretty easily and with not that much money. And I think, in essence, maybe about$10,000 in supplies, paint. I don't know if there's anything else you want to add, Abbey, as to the cost of the proj ect. MS. SEITZ: No, I think you pretty much hit all of it. As far as I understand, the SNAP-ED funding is available every—most years, through the Department of Health that can be applied for different Quick Build projects. And I think there's been Quick Builds now in all of the counties, so that's exciting. Yeah, I think even with the $50 grand, you know, that is a little bit of a caveat. Just there was quite a bit of volunteer work, particularly with this project being almost, as Natasha mentioned, three Quick Builds in one, and being a little bit more advantageous than most Quick Builds, and that it created this continuous walking path around the community piko. You know, we were a little bit tight on material, supplies, and just having to really, yeah,just be as efficient as possible in terms of the amount of funding. But I think just given—for me it's fairly inspiring to see how big of a change this will make, and how yeah, it's just so visually just visually present and just such a big kind of shift in the way people use spaces. So knowing you know, relatively that's a fairly relatively small compared to other infrastructure projects. It is really inspiring to see how much can be done with that amount of money. MS. ANCHETA: And I'd like to add that there was a little bit of money that was added in too, on top of the Quick Build actual budget, from some of our partner organizations for some supplies and funding for Kawehi as well as funding to capture the story, so we had video photographer that was donated by the Ulupono Initiative, some funding that went through(inaudible), too. Really know that we captured the story, not just do the project but keep a really good record of it. And I also wanted to share that our team, back in Planning with Natasha, with Tina Clothier, when she was (inaudible), we went in to look at an area that was had to be a Title I school, was one of the requirements for this project, and also that was embedded in a community. So we actually decided within our team, would Keaukaha be the right place? Just to have the Keaukaha Community Association as well as the larger community embrace us, was wonderful. To know that they wanted these changes, and they really led the ideas given to us. Even though we had some initial ideas going in, they really led the design with us. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That's great. And I think, you know,just judging by some of the comments from my colleagues, we're looking to really continue to amplify this work and duplicate it in various communities. So understanding the budget is Page 6 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 really helpful. Is there a tool kit that's being provided around how we as Council Members in partnership with Planning or other community organizations might be able to facilitate this process in our various communities? MS. SORIANO: I thinkI don't have a tool kit right now. One of the last things—actually this is like white paper, about the process, and I think there are probably some other things we need to probably work on in terms of—this is advantageous, and that I was leading it as a Project Coordinator, but I'd like to see it and I think you do too, to see that community can be able to engage in this, and so I think there are some barriers in that, and then we'll try to work that out internally. Hopefully, that's MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Like with permitting? MS. SORIANO: Yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, we look forward to the white paper, and seeing how we might be able to layer CRF (Contingency Relief Funds), department funds, State, and even private money, to make this happen in various communities. Because just judging by the photos and the passion behind everybody's comments, this is really creating a lot of sense of pride and ownership in community, and I just so appreciate the sense of belonging that's being created through this hard work. MS. SORIANO: I will add though too, in working out there, it was amazing how just everybody passing by, at first they were like, "Oh, we don't know what's going on. Why is it all white? What is this? This looks weird," and as it went on and the delineators were out there, they're like, "This is great work. Mahalo so much." It was really nice to be out there and to be able to actually interact with community again. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Your return on investment is quite strong here. Congratulations, Ms. Lee Loy. I know you were working really hard in partnership with these various organizations, County agencies, to make this happen, so thank you. I yield. MS. SEITZ: Thank you. And I wanted to add that this was multi-generational. We had children, young children all the way to kupuna that were helping with installation, and family members would bring more family members. And mahalo, Kawehi, for engaging your family, as well as Mona from Keaukaha Elemental School. She is their PCNC (Parent Community Network Center). Just truly a community event as we did the installation. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. Thank you everyone for this presentation. Really, you know, I appreciate the accolades, but really this was all community, and it was actually sparked by the kids. The artwork was sparked by the kids, and Page 7 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 Kawehi just added her finesse to it, and it's really just amazing. I have gotten so much feedback about how wonderful that is. It really created an environment for people to slow down and appreciate the piko of Keaukaha. So with that, thank you everyone for being here. It really was intended to inspire my other colleagues to use this as an opportunity for build-out projects in their district. So with that, Mr. Clerk, I believe a motion to close file on Communication 795. All those in favor,please say "aye." Vote on Comm. 795: The motion to close file on Comm. 795 was carried Filed by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Villegas, and Chair Lee Loy —5. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung, David, Kierkiewicz, and Richards —4. Excused: None. MS. SEITZ: Mahalo. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. MS. SEITZ: Mahalo. Thank you for everything. CHR. LEE LOY: Moving on, Mr. Clerk. Comm. 796: REQUESTS AN UPDATE FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS REGARDING THE KALANIANA`OLE AVENUE RECONSTRUCTION PROJECT From Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated May 11, 2022. Motion to Close File: Mr. Inaba moved to close file on Comm. 796. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder (Note: At this time, Deputy Public Works Director Steve Pause came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. LEE LOY: Mr. Pause, thank you so much for being here. You know, we just had a Quick Build project in the piko of our community, and as we kind of macro-out, you know, along comes Kalanianaole,which is the pathway to the piko. If you could please provide us with the status update? MR. PAUSE: Absolutely. Steve Pause, Deputy Director of DPW (Department of Public Works). So I was last here talking about this project on January 4h, and you will recall that we were in a state of transition, where we were transitioning Page 8 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 from Goodfellow to a temporary firm, Glover, who took over to maintain traffic control while we went out to bid and contracted with a new contractor, and that contractor is Nan. They came on board towards the end of March, beginning of April. Their scope of work was to finish the project. That involved our decision to use Portland Cement Concrete (PCC) for the final cover, eight inches for the road pavement, from approximately Station 33 back to the roundabout; and then continue and finish the drainage improvements; complete some waterline work that we are doing with the Department of Water Supply, and that's their scope of work. They mobilized to the site in April, and they've begun work out there. I think everyone can see that there is some level of progress. One of the questions I was asked to address was what caused traffic delay, and venture to say the rubbernecking associated with the shock of people actually working out there. But, our work continues. I am happy to report, from a scheduled standpoint, that things are proceeding nicely. You see activity out there. One of the first items to do was to complete some water connections. We have one left to go, and that will be at Orchid Manor, and I think you've seen the advertisements that work is being done at night, and it will be finished on the 8h of June. And Keith (Okamoto) assures me that there's no more work after that, almost. So, that's come along. You saw a lot of work out there with Hawaiian Tel. We've completed that work, I believe, on the 27h of May. So right now what you're seeing is they're working on the mauka lane and they're taking down the roadway, and prepping at this point to do the first concrete pour, which is expected to be next week. Along the way, we've been working with our partners at HELCO (Hawai`i Electric Light Company) and Hawaii Gas we have, and essentially agreed to workscopes, additional work that will be conducted to ensure that there's no compromise to the integrity of the pipelines, the gas line or the HELCO fuel line. We've had a lot of conversations, and I see the HELCO folks are here, and they'll confirm that we've reached a good place, working together to accomplish those things. The all total, as we begin our concrete work, there will be 26 pours, both adding the mauka and the makai side. They'll start off averaging about one a week, once we get going, and I think that will pick up in speed as they get better with putting down forms. I had a question that came, how are we doing it? They are using a bridge-deck paver. You'll see them setting that up here shortly, so it will be a finish machine. There will be some hand-finish work around sidewalks and curbing and such, but generally once they get going, it should go pretty quickly. The biggest issue that we're continuing to work with them now is some QAQC (Quality Assurance/Quality Checks) issues on the concrete, the mix, the slump, and things like that. Page 9 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 You had asked the question about night work. Our project has applied for a DOH permit variance, for working at night. And I talked to our team today, we had a call this morning. It's the intent—well, they're anticipating that being issued probably around the beginning of July, and it would be the intent to do the concrete pours at night. The formwork jumping forms and that type of work will be done during the day,just for convenience to the community, to traffic, to the trucks, and everything else, that's their choice, and that's their decision I think moving forward. You probably know as much as I do about DOT's (Department of Transportation) work, but my understanding is that they are waiting any day now to get their variance for working at night. I've been told that it's approximately eight nights of work once they get started, and they've told me that as soon as they get that permit, within a week they plan to go out and do that work. As you know, their scope of work is picking up from where the concrete ends, going to the additional problems. I think that covers what I wanted to say. Again, I'm an optimist by nature, but I came here in January and said we'd finish this year, and it sure does look like that is definitely real. We always have to worry about weather and unforeseen natural events, but I'd say that right now our contractor has given us a schedule that shows them completing the work this year. And they have quite nicely not included any float in their schedule, and it's there. We had those conversations, so I'm pretty optimistic that we're on a good path. Okay. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Pause, for that update. I want to ask a few questions before I open it up to my colleagues, specifically as it relates to some of the delays, I had gotten some calls regarding traffic being backed up all the way to Four Miles, if not further, and if you had MR. PAUSE: I asked our team about that today. I had a call with Nan. I had a call with our folks doing the work, our field inspectors. And we did receive one complaint, it was from the Beef Jerky folks. But other than that, nobody has recollection of receiving complaints. You know, they speculated it could have been just doing some traffic adjustment when Hawaiian Tel was doing the work down closer to the roundabout, but I wasn't able to find any specific complaints that we received, or was not able to tie it to a specific event. CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Mr. Pause. I also know we have some community partners here: the Department of Water Supply, HELLO. Checking, I'm not sure if we have DOT (Department of Transportation) in the Zoom. You know, Keith, I wanted to give you and the Department of Water Supply an opportunity to provide us with a status update. I know Mr. Pause mentioned that you guys had some water tie-ins with one remaining. Page 10 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 (Note: At this time, Water Supply Manager-Chief Engineer Keith Okamoto came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. OKAMOTO: Yeah, that's correct. So we're happy to report I mean, the 12-inch waterline that went in, as a supplemental to this project, has been in for quite a while; but as you know, part of putting in a new waterline is connecting the existing services from the old waterline to the new waterline, so that's the remaining work. Yeah, Mr. Pause is right on, we have—actually it's two, but it's scheduled for the same night. One is at Kea`a Street, and the other one is at Orchid Manor, for June 8h, 10:00 p.m. to 2:00 a.m., June 9h. And that should be it, pending any you know, any construction project there might be punchlist items, minor kind stuff like painting valve covers, and things like that. But the major work for us should be done on June Stn CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks for that update, Keith. And we have HELCO here, also. I'm not sure, is it Jen (Zelko-Schlueter)? (Note: At this time, Hawaiian Electric Light Company Engineer Kevin Waltjen came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Kevin Waltjen MR. WALTJEN Like Mr. Pause said, we've been working alongside DPW (Department of Public Works) since we put together the Task Force. A couple of things to note that actually made it help for us to participate and help in making sure that we're not delayed, is we came up with areas where our pipeline might be lower than the specification that allowed for the construction. There are two specifications that's allowed: one was using CLSM (Controlled Low Strength Material), and one was without. And in the areas where we reached this point, where it was shallower than what was allowed, DPW did come up with a solution that we could agree to. And so verbally, as Mr. Pause said, we came up with an agreed solution, so that way when we run into these areas. Because you're going to run into it, the contractor has a way to keep moving forward. So just to reassure you, and like Mr. Pause said, they have a schedule, they've identified the gotchas, and they have plans. So I would say, it's working, you know, for us. CHR. LEE LOY: Great. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Waltjen. Mr. Pause, before I turn it over MR. PAUSE: I just want to say thanks to Kevin and to Jen for their support. We've had a lot of conversations, and a lot of communication as he mentioned. I think what we're working on together is obviously coming out really well, and ultimately the beneficiaries are the community. We're trying really hard to not let anything slow us down, so I appreciate their help. Page 11 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 CHR. LEE LOY: Great. Thanks, Mr. Pause. I'm opening it up to my colleagues. Mr. Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you. Mr. Pause, I know you said you were going to finish by the end of this year. Do you have a set day in mind or a set time, at which you will anticipate it will be done? MR. PAUSE: We did write a date of December 15'h into the contract. I'm an optimist, by nature, I think we can do a little better than that. Certainly, everything right now is trending in the right direction. MR. INABA: Okay, that's good. And you said they had set a timeline with no flow. Is there a flow on the expected costs or are we going to be falling in line with what we anticipated. MR. PAUSE: No, I'm not seeing anything at all relative to cost. Obviously, contractors make money by getting their work done. The faster they can do it, the better. You know, there's quality control and all sorts of things. But when I say, "There's no float in their schedule,"they've got 26 pours that they're going to do over 26 weeks, and I know they can do better than that, and they know they can do better than that. They're just reluctant to show that on a written schedule. So I'm confident that things are coming together in meeting that schedule. MR. INABA: And with that, we will remain within budget? MR. PAUSE: That's also my confident, yes. MR. INABA: Okay, very good. Thank you, Mr. Pause. MR. PAUSE: Did you want me to say yes? You asked me this once before on another project. So, looking good. MR. INABA: Yeah, that's one of my frequent questions. Okay, thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: When all of this happened and we got delayed, there was a question of the HELCO pipe underneath the road. What is the required depth of that pipe from the roadway surface? MR. PAUSE: There isn't a requirement. There is a DOT requirement, and I could let HELCO comment on that. They would know better than me. But there's a DOT requirement that says how deep it has to be below the surface. And based on what we have learned during the project about that depth, the steps that we're taking to cover the pipeline with CLSM and then sealing it over with Page 12 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 the concrete, will allow them to continue to operate their pipeline and be within the necessary compliance. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. We're talking about it being too shallow though, so I'm guessing there must be some kind of MR. PAUSE: Part of the construction process of switching to the concrete was recognizing that the pipe was shallower than it should have been. That's correct. It met—and I don't want to speak out of line, but I understand it met the requirements when it was installed some 50-plus years ago, and it just the depth is maybe not up to current requirements. But by putting the concrete pavement, and of course, making all the steps we need to do to protect that pipe during construction, my understanding is their pipeline will be fine. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And let's just say something happens down the line, we've got to get to the pipeline, is it accessible after we pour concrete? Is it I mean, can you give me some details about this? I'm an electrician. Come on, give me something. Okay, there are requirements. You pipe in the ground, there are requirements. MR. PAUSE: Pipelines never leak. You know that. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm going to hold you to that one. MR. WALTJEN: Okay, let's start with your first part of the question, about shallowness, and too shallow, and whatever, right? So when the pipeline was installed, it was two feet to surface, and that was the requirement that was approved and that's what was put in. You go along there now; the pipeline has buried over time on the depth. And in some cases—and this is where we came to an agreement, right, because we did the calcs (calculations), it changed down in some cases to lower than 16 inches from the surface to the pipe. So that's where that agreement came out saying, and DPW came up with this, we'll reduce the CLSM, right, that layer which is six inches, we'll reduce it; if it's 14 inches to the surface, to four inches. And I'm just giving you an example. Now, we had to go back to our engineers and calculate, what does that do to our pipe, or do we have concerns? So part of the agreement in the initial was if you're paving this pipeline, the compaction requirement requires heavy rollers to go over the pipe, so that's where the issue becomes an issue. Not so much as the depth to the pipe on a regular surface, it's the compaction, cause now you put heavy rollers. So CLSM came up as the solution,which then you don't have to compact. Move forward till now, that CLSM package doesn't need it because it's 14 inches. It has to be 16 inches for the total package. Reduce them in the CLSM, does the engineering work? So we go back to our engineers, and they do the calculations Page 13 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 and say, "Yes, it works." Because you're still going get the eight-inch concrete above it, you still going get the sand over the pipe, so you're good. So similar to the electrical side, when we put the sand cover the PVC (polyvinyl chloride), that sand still is over the pipe, and still get the cushion. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. MR. WALTJEN: Yeah, then you get the CLSM for the compaction. I hope I answered your question. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just for the general public, CLSM is? MR. WALTJEN: The slurry mix. Concrete slurry mix. MR. PAUSE: It's Controlled Low Strength Material. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. MR. PAUSE: But it's flowable concrete. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: They always ask us about abbreviations. You guys said that about 20 times already. MR. WALTJEN: What is that? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. Okay, so you got the depth, you got sand. It's accessible if you need to come back and cut the cement and get to the pipeline, if needed? MR. WALTJEN: Yes, we'll cut the concrete, and expose the pipeline in the area that we need to. And the good thing is, when we run our piggable—our pig through the pipe, and it's basically a device that measures the thickness of the pipe and the condition of the pipe. We do this every two years. It will tell us what condition of the pipe is, along the pipe-way, so that we know what section we would have to go back into. And we would cut the concrete, and what will have to do around that pipe. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just to ask, how was the last run with the pig? MR. WALTJEN: Oh, was good. When we got back the report from the consultant, the pipe would go another 50 years. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: If there was ever a time to do it,probably will be now. Page 14 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 MR. WALTJEN: Yeah. You know, it's an interesting thing, right? It's science today, right? The technology today allows us to analyze the pipe without having to expose the pipe, so that's a good thing. MR. PAUSE: And for what it's worth, in my previous life I actually worked for pipeline companies. So Keven shared their results; I looked at the report. For a pipeline as old as its age, it's in really good condition. And I think they've done a really good job of monitoring it, and then making repairs when you needed to. So, it looks good. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I didn't know that about you, Steve. Thank you. And then how much—is this whole thing going to be cement, or what? MR. PAUSE: The roadway the travel lanes will be concrete from the station just in front of where the terminals are now, all the way back to the roundabout. And then from thereon, the DOT is going to be paving. When they last described, they were using a newer type of pavement that was actually better quality, is what the State was planning to use. It had like a polymer mixed in with the asphalt. If we can believe Rob, it was going to be the really good stuff for the State portion. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Cool. Okay, thank you. That answers my questions. Thank you for being here today. Appreciate it. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. You know, he actually perked up. This is the first time all day, where I saw him get all excited about asking questions. With that, I just have one other question, Mr. Pause. Bike lanes, sidewalks, paint done for us, when this project is done, what will we have? MR. PAUSE: I'll have to plead ignorance as far as what the final striping plan was for the drawings. I mean, they're available. What was in the original design did not change between the Goodfellow and the transition over to Nan. But I don't exactly remember the striping plan. CHR. LEE LOY: Confirm for me, sidewalks on the makai side of the road? MR. PAUSE: Yes, yes. CHR. LEE LOY: A bike lane, we're not—can't confirm? MR. PAUSE: Again, I apologize, I'm not clear on that. CHR. LEE LOY: Okay. MR. PAUSE: But the information is available. Page 15 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 CHR. LEE LOY: And then on the mauka side of the road, we have swales. MR. PAUSE: Yes. CHR. LEE LOY: Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you for that update. I really appreciate it. Council Members, we have a motion to close file on Communication 796. All those in favor, please say "aye." Ms. Villegas,just checking in on you? MS. VILLEGAS: All good. CHR. LEE LOY: Great. Vote on Comm. 796: The motion to close file on Comm. 796 was carried Filed by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas, and Chair Lee Loy —6. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Chung, David, and Richards —3. Excused: None. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you everyone for being here; it's such a late hour and hanging on for us. Mr. Clerk, if you could take us into bills for the day. MR. BROWN: For sure. BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Bills ORDINANCES: for Ordinances. Bill 174: INITIATES AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE VI OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CHARTER (2020 EDITION), BY ADDING A NEW CHAPTER TO ESTABLISH A DEPARTMENT OF BUILDING Creates a Department of Building to manage the duties and functions currently performed by the Building Division within the Department of Public Works. Reference: Comm. 810 Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to recommend passage of Bill 174 on the first of three readings. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Kierkiewicz, please lead our discussion. Page 16 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. So full disclosure, there was no coordination with the Department of Public Works Director on this bill. This was something that I had an initial conversation with the Mayor about he was open to it. But just my time on the Council, observing a couple of administrations, and just recognizing the incredible kuleana,just gigantic sort of responsibility that Public Works has. Really felt that something like this could be a strategic adjustment recalibration if you may, to ensure that we've got the accountability that we need across County. And, you know, I just don't feel it's feasible to have our Director and Deputy in every single division meeting, And so this is not intended to be any disrespect towards you guys. You guys are working really, really hard, but just feel a little bit of adjustment is really necessary so that you guys can really focus on things. So this is pretty obvious, taking the functions related to the Building Division out of Public Works and creating a department, wanting to keep everything that's related to County assets and facilities within Public Works, and moving the permitting inspection and enforcement piece out into a different department. That's pretty much it. I invite the Director to come and kind of share his initial reactions. I know that we had been playing phone tag, wanting to coordinate on all of this, and just kind of talk story. But do welcome your feedback and also the feedback of my colleagues. There might be some adjustments I need to be making on the effective date on this, per some recommendations by Corp. Counsel, and even some adjustments to language. But really do hope that we can have a robust discussion on this. Thank you, Chair. (Note: At this time, Public Works Director Ikaika Rodenhurst came forward to address the members of the Committee.) CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Before you get started, Mr. Rodenhurst, I want to acknowledge for the record, we have Council Chair David here in our Hilo Chambers. Go ahead, Mr. Rodenhurst. MR. RODENHURST: Okay. Mahalo, Chair, and mahalo, Council Woman Kierkiewicz. Ikaika Rodenhurst, Director of Public Works. Yeah, we're playing phone tag on this one. You know, it is a lot that we do at DPW. There's a lot of responsibility. We have six divisions. As a director, I have at least eight direct reports, including my division chiefs as well as the deputy, and private secretary. So there are a lot of things we do. On top of that,we do have a lot of vacancies at this time, so that obviously is why me and Steve are in a lot of meetings to kind of help to fill in for that, especially in the higher-tier vacancies that are open right now. Primarily, since we're on the subject, Building Chief, Deputy Building Chief, Plans Examining Manager, and we have multiple other positions open. Page 17 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 In reviewing of this, you know, I'm not against the idea of it, about splitting that burden across other areas. That is a growing division with growing needs. We've talked about our infrastructure at the County, both the buildings as well as our roads and bridges. There are some concerns that I would provide my mana`o on, primarily being, you know, with the Building Division, that doesn't just include the Building Permit Review Section; and the Compliance and Code Enforcement Section, it also includes our Maintenance and our Building Project Section, which does require engineers, under the HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes) as Public Works projects. If you look at similar positions at different municipalities throughout the State, they require that engineers be in charge of them, as well. Some examples are the Department of Design and Construction on Oahu, also the Department of Facility Maintenance on Oahu. They have those positions where it's head up by a licensed engineer or architect, depending on the responsibilities. And like I mentioned, HRS 464-4 talks about Public Works projects requiring licensed engineers in the design and construction stages. Another thing too, I think, on this bill was the director position. I would stand by and say that it would require, or should require rather, a licensed engineer or architect because they would be managing other licensed professionals in that same field, and that understanding would help with the management side of it; and from this position, be able to understand what's going on with our engineers in the building side—or an architect on the building side, as well as our engineers; and the traffic maintenance side as well our engineering side. That knowledge does help understand how that management is going on, especially when you have to fill in for a role, as well. Like I mentioned, we have our Building Chief and Deputy Building Chief currently vacant. We are interviewing soon for some of those positions. It does require a little bit more hands-on duties from the Director and Deputy Director. And as I mentioned, you know, the requirement of managing other engineers, I mean in the Building Division alone, we have the Chief, the Deputy Chief, Plan Examining Manager, Architect II; you have your electrical, structural, and mechanical engineers, as well as your Building Project Managers. All require a license. That's for the most part where I'm coming from on that. As my opinion on that, I think it needs a little bit—some changes in the wording in the requirements. But I'm happy to answer any other questions. Happy to discuss. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Director. I really appreciate that. Again, this is just to kind of advance the conversation. We weren't able to connect on this previously but just wanted to make sure that we were just trying something. You Page 18 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 know,just in case folks don't know, this is an unprecedented back in the day, Public Works also included what we know now as Environmental Management, so really not unprecedented. And just seeing that there is so much that this one department is having to carry, so just saw this as a potential solution to ease burden. That being said, Chair, I yield and look forward to comments from my colleagues. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. I'll check over in Kona. Ms. Villegas, any questions? MS. VILLEGAS: No, not at this time. I really like the concept of this and the potential for clarification. To me, my mind just thinks Building is a different department than DPW, in general. So I—you know, it sounds like that there are some needs for clarification for specific—you know, they need to be engineers and whatnot—requirements for these roles and positions. But it does seem like it could help streamline, ideally, some things in government. And I appreciate your pointing out, Council Woman Kierkiewicz, that the Department of Environmental Management used to reside within DPW. It's helpful to understand the history so that future changes don't seem quite as intimidating. I wish they called it the Department of Waste Management because I think the name is a little misleading, but that's a side note. Anyway, so I am interested in learning more about specifically what this would entail and the capacity to make these changes and the benefits that may arise. I'm sure there will be challenges, but really it's the weighing of pros and cons, risk/reward. So thanks for bringing this forward and starting this conversation. I yield. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Anyone here in Hilo? Mr. Inaba. MR. INABA: Yeah, quick question. Just in terms of the positions that are currently within that division, do you have an understanding of how they would be moved? You know, we have a Division Chief, so this—are we still having a Division Chief within that new set up? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: If I may, Chair? None of that has been decided. This is really the first step, and then from there, an ordinance would be established to really flush out the organization of the department. MR. INABA: Okay. I'm not opposed to the idea,but definitely I do like the idea, like the Director Rodenhurst said, of them having their engineering degree. Did you say that they are a professional engineer? Page 19 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 MR. RODENHURST: Professional Engineer. And then with some other municipalities, it varies on the degree of experience required. MR. INABA: Okay. Yeah, maybe yeah, that's something that we should consider in light of them being specifically overseeing what is this current division. But thank you for bringing this forward. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. I'm going to concur with the Director. As someone who worked in the field for five years, you're able to apply for journeyman status, and to know that journeyman could potentially run the Department of Public Works is, to me, worrisome. It's not enough experience in five years. And at some point, a guy with five years' experience, or a woman with five years' experience, may not even be journeyman level. Yeah, definitely going to need some requirements more specific to what's entailed in the job duties, but also a little bit more encompassing as what that person has learned in that five years, What experience level they pull from because there's got to be more there in my eyes. If you have any thoughts, go ahead. MR. RODENHURST: I had a quick question on the journeyman to an engineer. I'm not sure the correlation there, between the five years. Because when you get your engineering license, it's experience under licensed engineer; and there's also various degrees of experience and also degrees of degrees, whether it's bachelor's degree or master's degree. So that's what I'm trying to understand when you say journeyman versus experience as a licensed engineer, which one are we going on? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So I'm reading the writer's scope of history for the director. It says, "The director shall have a minimum of five years of administrative experience in the building or development trades." MR. RODENHURST: Gotcha. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So there is nothing else. MR. RODENHURST: Yeah. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So. that's why. You spoke to it earlier, there needs to be a little bit more there? MR. RODENHURST: Oh, yeah. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And I completely agree. For me, as a well, I've had five years in the building trade; but at five years, you've barely made journeyman, if you're able to take that test and go get done. At ten years, you can be a contractor. That, to me, is more suited for someone who is running a Page 20 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 department like yours. And I didn't even touch on engineering experience, yeah. Like you stated, there needs to be engineering requirements there as well. I would have to agree. It may limit the pool, but it also—it gives us good candidates who are going to run that position well. So I think we're on the same base. MR. RODENHURST: Understood now. Yeah, thank you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. No, thanks for clarifying. That's my two cents. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Chair David. MS. DAVID: Hi. Thank you, Chair Lee Loy. I'm sorry if I'm behind the scenes here. But listening to this, I'm just reading what the purpose of this is, I think I like that idea. I think one department really should be honed down to specific duties, as far as the Department of Public Works. You've got roads. You've got everything under your department. So a building department, to me, makes total sense, the idea of it. And I understand that Ms. Kierkiewicz explained that the details will have to be worked out later. This is just to put this idea to the voters,right? Your opinion, should this happen? How would the EPIC (Electronic Processing Information Center) system intertwine with thisa separate ? I don't see any issues because it's a computer system. You just kind of like direct it for a different—but I just wanted your thoughts since you guys are struggling and not struggling, but getting that up and running. I just wanted to know how you think this would work with the EPIC system. MR. RODENHURST: That's a good question. I mean, there are a lot of things we're still working on to make this really the system we desired when we engaged this path to get electronic with our system. Currently, we have our grading and grubbing permits through there, as well, so I don't believe it would cause a giant gap, as far as the permitting operation goes. I mean, we currently work with other departments: Planning, Fire; we also work with agencies outside of the County, DOH. So we do work with other folks on that. That part wouldn't be such a big task on the first glance. Some of the accountant logistics would be more. We have a very small currently one position accounting group for Building specifically, which we have been awarded another position for so far on the current budget for next year, and that requires a lot of support from our Administration Division to help out our Building Division, so that's one where it would be difficult. Even after working out all the bugs in the system, we still have to have some robust accounting available for that. Say this was to work out of a Department of Building. Page 21 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 MS. DAVID: Yeah, interesting. Well, you know what, I think this concept is pretty much very creative, and I think I like that because everything is concentrated with respect to building. Just thinking that we could get on the proactive bandwagon, you know, having that in your EPIC mind to kind of start to think about how this would tie into that. And that's all I have to say. I don't really have a question, but I just wanted to get your opinion. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair David. Ms. Kimball, go ahead. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Director, for being here. And thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz, for introducing this concept. I can't recall the gist of the conversation, but I was asking I think about a State department, and it was, you know, should we create this new department? The response was, "More administration rarely mistakes things better." However, I think this is a scenario where the opposite actually, maybe true. My question for you is to—three-fold. You have Highways, you have Traffic, and Administration, so those are staying in DPW. Building coming out. If I heard you before, there are some components of Building that you think need to still be part of the other body, which would now be DPW. Did I understand that correctly? MR. RODENHURST: Not necessarily. MS. KIMBALL: Okay. MR. RODENHURST: I mean, it all depends how this gets finalized, right, this process. Currently, in the Building Division, we have our Design and Engineering Section, which is permanent care to the CIP (Capital Improvement Projects) side. We have our General Services Section. We have our R&M (Repair and Maintenance) Section. We also have our Inspection Section and our Plan Review Section. In those aspects, especially for the Design and Engineering Section, when you're designing buildings or repairs to our County assets and County facilities, that requires a licensed engineer. MS. KIMBALL: Right. MR. RODENHURST: You know, while that may be the case, in our Plan Review Section, we have requirements under the Building Chief and the Deputy Chief for the entire division to have an architect or engineering license. And then when we're getting into the weeds of the Plan Review Section, the Manager positions have an architect or engineering license requirement. Page 22 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 And then get to the Plan Reviewers. There's not so much a requirement there as much as there is an experience requirement, and so that one was a little bit different. And there are municipalities across the country where they either require the head of the department have that engineering license or architectural license, or they have something similar to what was presented here today, where it's like a five-year experience in administration, kind of management aspect. But that's primarily when you're talking about just that Plan Review side. But one of the benefits that other municipalities talk about is having that licensed engineer, or architect, at the helm of those departments because they're able to understand and work with the Code. And when it comes to Code interpretations, things that are left in the gray area to the Code, that's where the authority having jurisdiction is able to make an interpretation and kind of make that clear where the Code might not fit the particular application. And so that's parts where those licensed engineers, licensed professionals, would be helpful. But so far it would be under the same roof of this department, the Building as proposed in this bill. MS. KIMBALL: Okay, great. So there is a logical path forward in terms of how the separation might happen. To your point that you expanded upon there, we had a comment earliera conversation earlier about another potential Charter amendment, having to do with reappointment. So Director—and part of the conversation that came up was, you know, some of the qualifications that we have for directors might be inadvertently excluding some folks that potentially might be excellent from the job. You know, maybe that's a problem, it requiring certain things. I'd like you to just kind of reflect for a moment. Almost two years you've had now, what qualities have been more critical for the department to function your ability to administer and serve as Coach Rodenhurst versus your expertise in the particular field? And is the answer different for the Building Division and DPW type, if we were to separate this? MR. RODENHURST: So it's kind of a complicated answer, so I'll try to make it as uncomplicated as possible. You know, with the six divisions that we have, it really depends on what the situation is of the day and what the situation is regarding what's in front of us, whether it be technical, whether it's managerial or administrative. The administrative experience does help, and it's one of the difficult things that you find in the engineering profession or even the architectural profession, is there's not a wide pool that I'm aware of, where you have a quality manager and a quality engineer together. However, when you have someone that does have administrative experience, it does help to understand those requirements of that engineering or that architectural license and what information it represents. The accomplishments, achievements as well as knowledge of the various aspects of construction: building, physics, dynamics, statics, all that, it does help to be relatable. And I Page 23 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 think that's what's really key there is when you're an administrator, being relatable to the people that you are working with and managing, if you cannot be relatable, there's a giant gap and chasm to overcome there, and having that engineering or architectural background helps cover that gap. But again, I think both are extremely important. You know, there's a reason I think why it's hard to come by for someone to meet those requirements because the responsibilities are for that, and it does take a balanced approach of technical knowledge and managerial experience. MS. KIMBALL: Okay, thank you for that. So I think Council Member Kierkiewicz kind of—some key nuggets that I will share from that, but I think are relevant. It's folks that are trained, like Director Rodenhurst and myself, in more technical fields, you know, in our fields there is rarely additional management, administration, business management training, and so it is rare to find that combination. So when thinking about what qualifications the director might have, there's got to be some measure of having that administrative quality for Mr. Rodenhurst. It was his experience as a coach. That's where I got my administrative experience, as a paddling coach. Additionally, I would say that we also need to consider that whoever it is, that they have administrative experience can do the translation of the technical to Deanna when it's a budget ask, or between the members of the department. So just a couple of things. You know, when we had the confirmation process for these folks, I had some mental gymnastics around what the qualifications were and whether or not matched ideally what we needed. So I would give this directors description quite a bit of thought in terms of what actually needs to be in that position and what the measurements are. Yes? Go ahead. MR. RODENHURST: And if I could add in one more thing? And you brought up a comment I didn't get to touch on, from the previous conversation with the other amendment. You know, we have varying degrees of management experience. You know, like every job, there are good, fair,poor, mediocre, great bosses, managers, and employees. When you have a high turnover rate, whether it necessary or not, it does impact the services of the entire department when you have that leadership position with a high turnover rate, as we mention, or was mentioned. I think there were about three directors in one term. So those kinds of things really make it difficult. I do plans to stay here as long as possible to serve the County in any way I can. So I have no plans to go anywhere. But it would be you know, I think that consistency is helpful in that leadership role, and that can impact the services, as well. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you for that. I know you haven't had a ton of time to look at it and consider this, but do you have an estimate as to size-wise, personnel-wise what—are we talking one-third, two-thirds, or half-half split? If Page 24 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 we you were to break up Building Division, what would that look like in terms of numbers? MR. RODENHURST: So I haven't had a chance to get the exact numbers, and most of the question there lies in—we do have a lot of vacancies in the Building Division. I think with all the vacancies filled, I would estimate it being around approximately a quarter of our staff for the department, currently. But I would have to confirm that number, so don't take that one to the bank. MS. KIMBALL: Okay. Yeah, that would be good to have for the next conversation about this. And then finally—again, I know you haven't had a lot of time to consider, but can you share within the other counties, you mentioned City and County of Honolulu, and it sounds like they have multiple divisions that would come out of what we call, currently call DPW. But Maui, Kauai, how are they arranged in terms of the services that DPW currently provides? MR. RODENHURST: So I'm not as familiar with Maui and Kauai. They have a traditional DPW, similar to what we have, and I'll have to double-check exactly where they differ; but for the most part, they're the same as us. When you look at Oahu I'm originally from Oahu. I've worked with various departments on Oahu. They have this split, where they have multiple departments that handle a little bit of each of what's handled at DPW. I think, for example, if I'm not mistaken, Facility Maintenance covers some of the activities that you would see in Highway Maintenance and Traffic Maintenance, as well as Building that we currently see. Whereas, you have the Department of Design and Construction which would actually cover a lot of the design and engineering that you see in Building. But also, some of the design and engineering, we can see in our Engineering Division, as well. And so there's this mixed way of handling it. And I'm not advocating for them in any way. That's just how they handled their split. If I'm not mistaken, they originally had a DPW back in the day, and where that kind of branched off and became what it is today. So from my understanding, the Maui and Hawaii DPWs are very similar to us, but Oahu has the real kind of mixed bag of departments. MS. KIMBALL: Okay. Yeah, so I'll be supporting this today for further conversation. And hopefully, you know, I'm sure there's time for you guys to talk and finalize some of the languages around the director position, and what makes sense in terms of powers, duties, and functions. Thank you, Director, for your time today. Thanks again, Council Member Kierkiewicz. I yield, Chair. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Anyone else? Okay, I'm going to take few minutes on this one. Page 25 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 So first and foremost, absolutely. I think Ms. Kierkiewicz has been very clear about the charge admission of this Building Division; it would be to carry out permitting, inspection, and code enforcement. And so listening to Ms. Kimball's line of questioning, and those questions had about dividing up the staff, I think that's exactly on point. I think that's the information that we want to help us kind of advance this. But Mr. Rodenhurst, you also mentioned some of the charge that's required under HRS, which is Chapter 464 and then 444. And I was actually hoping you could help, maybe up-end this conversation, not in a negative way but a positive way, in which some of what the duties and responsibilities of our Code Enforcement Team is actually driven by HRS to help this body kind of really refocus and become laser-focused of what we're trying to achieve. Can you please describe HRS 464 and then 444, which actually provide a lot of guidance in the technical expertise and training that has to be housed within this division? MR. RODENHURST: So I can help with 464. I don't have 444 readily available to me, and I can pull it up and review it real quick. But I did look at 464, this has come up, and it touches on Public Works projects requiring, basically, to summarize it, alteration and new construction be have plans or specifications prepared by a licensed engineer, and then the construction observed by a licensed engineer, and then having maintenance work. The construction observed by a licensed engineer. And as it's identified in this section, maintenance, minor repairs, or placement work which do not affect or involve the structural integrity of the Public Works project. And then a Public Works project, meaning projects undertaken by State, County, or any political subdivision. CHR. LEE LOY: So walking back to Ms. Kierkwicz's kind of understanding of what this new department would be to carry out permitting, inspection, and code enforcement. Are there sections of HRS 464 that touch specifically on that? MR. RODENHURST: Not that I'm aware of. CHR. LEE LOY: Great. Check. And maybe offline we can have a conversation about 444 because it relates to licensed surveyors, architects, and engineers. And I just want to make sure, and helping Ms. Kierkiewicz kind of fillet this out a little bit, that we can actually get to a department whose charge is permitting, inspection, and code enforcement, 444. Are you ready for that? MR. RODENHURST: I have it, but it's a much bigger section than 464. And so I'm not exactly prepared to go line-by-line on that, but I'm happy to have that conversation. Because that one primarily deals with contractors, as it—you know, with the permitting aspect of it. You touched on the land surveyors. I forget to mention, 464 does require it to be a licensed land surveyor. And if this were to happen where the division will Page 26 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 become Building Department, our land surveyor currently resides in the Engineering Division. And so it would just be a little bit different, as far as the use of those services. But,just to put it out there. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. and I think managing expectations, Ms. Kierkiewicz, I think all too often—and I learned this just doing the work with our construction codes, is when everybody wants a building permit, it's always Building's issue, but we know Fire belongs to that, Planning Department belongs to that, Department of Health. And so, I like the idea of a Department of Building, and Plans and Permitting, or something to really set the expectation of what the responsibilities of this division would look like. And I believe City and County Honolulu has a Plans and Permitting Division, correct? MR. RODENHURST: That's correct, but they exclude the Design and Maintenance from that, and that's where it's kind of split between those other two I brought up. CHR. LEE LOY: Great. So I do think there's a lot here, some real good bones here that we could actually work on. I like the idea because I think as we move forward, it keeps—as you mentioned in the newspaper, you know, really laser- focus on what the roles and responsibilities are, but also taking out some of the other concerns that kind of fall at the feet of Building Division, which is Fire's approval, or Department of Health's approval, or Planning's approval, you know, in this bigger EPIC system. So those are my suggestions. I'm actually excited to move this forward and see where we land on this one. I actually was around when we snapped off DEM (Department of Environmental Management) and created that division. And so although it was definitely, immediately stood up, there were a lot of various departmental rules that had to be created. You know,just functions, and roles, and responsibilities of various people within that that department. And I would like to offer, I believe it's Kona-Kohala Chamber who has consistently advocated that some of these department heads, specifically DPW and/or Building Division, have the technical training and expertise, but also in lieu of the Director. Maybe the deputy having those technical trainings, but the Director having more managerial experience on just being a good coach to allow everyone else within the department to unleash with their skillsets. So those are my comments, Mr. Rodenhurst. Anything else you would like to add? MR. RODENHURST: No, I just want to reiterate that I do stand by that license—or the architectural engineering license is really key to having that consistency and understanding and, you know, having that ability to backfill in case of position issues that we currently do face. But as well as being a coach and being relatable to the people they're working with. Page 27 PWMTC-20 May 31,2022 CHR. LEE LOY: Great. Thank you, Mr. Rodenhurst. Mr. Inaba. MR. INABA: Very quickly. Ms. Kierkiewicz, if this should pass, when would you expect to see the department stood up? Because I know you know, it would be voted on in the election, but when were you picturing it stood up? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Overnight,just kidding. No, there's going to obviously take some time to introduce appropriate ordinances, and make that transition. And so that's something I need to have a discussion with Corporation Counsel about. And would be putting forward a couple of amendments related to that and based on today's conversation. MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. Myself, I would personally like to see this in committee before we move it along. I won't make that motion. I'll state it for the record. If we vote on it today, I'm just going to vote "no"because I think it needs more conversation. But I do support the intention of this. Thank you. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Kierkiewicz, any other final comments? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I really appreciate everybody's support and honesty back here. Again, this is just to kind of get the conversation flowing. I do want to move it forward to Council because we do have three readings, and we want to make sure that we are doing everything we can to ensure that it meets the August deadline to get on to the November ballot. You know, I just want to clarify, I think I'm going to be taking a portion of this out of the bill, the piece related to the public building and construction and inspection piece, because I really want to make sure that all County assets remain within Public works. And so if we were to separate that out, I don't think the engineering degree is going to necessarily apply to everything released. Everything else related to private building and inspection, and I think that might alleviate some concerns that I'm hearing from the body. So,just to give folks a sense of where I am going with my potential next iteration of this. But yeah, I appreciate the feedback, and will be putting forward amendments, and look forward to discussion at Council. Thank you, Chair. CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, everyone. What we have is a motion to forward Bill 174 to the Council with a favorable recommendation. All those in favor? Oh, let's do a roll call, Mr. Clerk. Page 28