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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOREDC 2022/05/31 2020-2022 Committee on Governmental Operations, Relations, and Economic Development 28th Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawai i May 31, 2022 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations, Relations, ORDER: and Economic Development was called to order at 2:31 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Chair Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member (came in later) Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (via videoconference from Kona) Absent& Excused: Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Travis Chai Andrade: Bill 175 (Comm. 812); comment. CHR. KIMBALL: Okay with that, we'll close public testimony and go to the order of the day. Mr. Clerk, if you could just read in the first bill, please. BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 Bill 175: INITIATES AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE V OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CHARTER (2020 EDITION), RELATING TO ESTABLISHING A YOUTH COMMISSION WITHIN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH Adds a new chapter to create a commission consisting of up to 15 members between the ages of 14 and 24 years old that would integrate its ideas and perspectives into County government. Reference: Comm. 812 Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to recommend passage of Bill 175 on the first of three readings. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. And I just want to credit and mahalo Travis Chai Andrade for being here and just being so incredibly eloquent about where you see youth having a role in County Government. You are an exemplary example. And I would love to have more folks like you as part of this commission engaging civically, and also just being part of future decision-making. You know, all of it is stuff that you are going to be living through and with. And so, thank you for being here. You know, I think back to my youth when Charlene Iboshi was Prosecuting Attorney and coordinating the Youth Builders Program. And myself, Kelden Wahjen, our Prosecuting Attorney; Ilihia Gionson who's with HTA (Hawai`i Tourism Authority); and others from around the island were brought together on a regular basis to be provided opportunities around capacity building. And that was such an incredible experience for me. And throughout my youth, I've had the opportunity to intern for Mayor Kim, when he was first Mayor. And also within the Department of Environmental Management. I'm very fascinated with how government works and just appreciated there being opportunities to just get to know how government works, make an impact, and here I am on the Council. And I just felt there has to be ways in which we as a body are intentionally finding ways to build up capacity of youth and giving them opportunities to lead. And so this commission is designed to do exactly that, and get youth involved, term ages from ages 14 to 24. What I wanted to make sure that we do was ensure that every single Council Member was able to appoint a youth from their district and then it will also allow the Mayor to elevate and appoint `opio from around the island. Page 2 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 So up to 15 members serving two-years staggered terms and really just a lot of various things that they could be touching upon; elevating what's important to youth aspirations, concerns, needs;providing them space to develop strategies that really support youth in a variety of ways from education, mental health, which we know folks are struggling with right now; advise the Council and Mayor on various policy decisions; and also, if we as Council Members or the Administration would like to know what youth think about various policies or decisions that we're looking to make, getting their perspectives. Initiating educational campaigns. I think youth are very well suited to be communicating very important messages on various platforms like TikTok and Instagram, and so wanting to be able to leverage their skillsets, their talents. So initiate campaigns whether it's about recycling or getting involved in voting and civic engagement. I think they have a knack for getting messages out there in ways that really resonate. Getting more of their counterparts involved in the civic process. And then just coordinating a number of activities. We have a lot of important measures that come before us, whether it's the General Plan, Community Development Plans, Disaster Preparedness. This is a way to invite youth to be part of these processes and ensure that they are empowered to help lead in these initiatives. And also just creating resources. There's a lot of information. I think that we are all trying to sift through within County Government. Just would appreciate youth perspective in getting a lot of that information out so that folks know how County Government is working hard for them. That being said, happy to answer any questions folks might have. Shout out to Dennis Kauka and our County Clerk Jon Henricks for helping my team and I kind of shape this. And also special mahalo to Keiko Mercado in the Planning Department. Two years ago, Honolulu Council had adopted a similar measure. I'll never forget her reaching out to me and saying, "Ash, how cool, if we would be able to do this for our County." So, mahalo nui, Keiko, for that encouragement. And mahalo Travis, for being here to show us what's possible. Thank you Chair, I yield. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Anyone else here in Hilo? Seeing no lights on, I'll go over to Kona. Any comments or feedback from Kona? MS. VILLEGAS: No thank you, Chair. Page 3 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 CHR. KIMBALL: Great. Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Questions for Ms. Kierkiewicz regarding the ages. So it's open for folks between the ages of 14 to 24, but the Commission Members shall be duly registered voters of the County. Just trying to put those two together, because a 14-year-old can register to vote? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: No they cannot. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so how does that work? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Once you turn 18 you can, but wanted to make sure that we had a good cross-section of members of our community. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I yield for the time. Give me a second, thank you. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Any other comments? Go ahead, Council Member Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Kierkiewicz, for thoseI did read through this, but I might have missed it. For those who do turn 24 during their term, do they finish off a term? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes, that's the intention. MR. INABA: Okay. Is that stated somewhere in this amendment to the Charter, or in the bill? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: No, it's not stated explicitly. MR. INABA: Okay. Just wondering if we might want to include language like that, so thatI mean, if we are putting in a set range. Just saying if someone is or do we not allow to be nominated if they're going to turn 24 within two years of being confirmed? What's your take on that? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I'm going to defer to Corporation Counsel on this one. Judge Strance, if you could weigh in on the age range that, you know, we prescribed? And this range was based on taking a look at how, you know, national-international groups are defining what they're considered to be youth. (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward to address the members of the Committee.) Page 4 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 MS. STRANCE: Good afternoon, Ms. Strance, Corporation Counsel. I think if you wanted to clarify language, it would be, you know, 24 at taking the position. And that would clarify that particular issue. The concern that I raise to you is that if this is a commission created by Charter, it's subject to Chapter 13 of the Charter, which would require commission members to comply with the Board of Ethics and Financial Disclosures. And for those members that are not 18, it's not clear to me what responsibilities their parents would have. And so, between this reading and the next reading, I'll get some additional information since it sounds like this was patterned after City and County of Honolulu legislation. We could take a look at that. But that would be my initial concern about the age requirements, assuming those were passed, you could put clarifying language about whether the 24-year-old age is at the time of appointment. MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. And then, Council Member Kierkiewicz, the reason being that we have boards and commissions in the Code and in the Charter, the reason for the Charter—your selection of putting it in the Charter is ? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I thought this was the best vehicle to do it. And you know, I did ping the Administration to let them know that this would be additional kuleana. So I don't know if Pomai and Tim (Hansen) want to be able to speak to that. But we are, you know, charging the Administration. And so felt this needed to be in the Charter. MR. INABA: Okay. And then in terms of the funding, I know we're going to assign a staff member to this commission. Have we worked with the Administration on the cost for that? And is it your intention to put it perhaps in this next upcoming budget if this passes? Or do we just figure out the funds later? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I would anticipate that they would assign one of their Executive Assistants to be overseeing this. Have not figured out an exact dollar amount to support this commission, but you will see there is language here about resources being dedicated to this commission. Whether it is, you know, training, workshops, whatever. You know, seed funding to pilot an educational initiative. The Mayor's Office does have discretionary funding that I would hope they would use to support youth in their endeavors. MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. And then just one last question. I'm not sure if this is kind of out of the box, but when it comes to residency, how are we defining that? Because obviously as adults, you know, we have somewhere to live, but then for some of these participants, they might be gone for nine months out of the year potentially. You know, more if they choose to do summer school, Page 5 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 if they're away at college. So do we want to maybe include language that protects them and allows them to be a part of this as well? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Do you think the current language would restrict say, someone that is doing an internship or studying abroad, but a member of the commission, do you think that they're not going to be able to participate based on the language you're seeing here? MR. INABA: It says, "Each Council Member shall appoint a member who resides in the district that Council Member represents." So I mean,just as a point to make it very clear, if we either want it, we can say that. Or, is a dependent of someone who lives—so in the college sense, that covers them too. Just a suggestion that we might add so that we can have those who are pursuing their education away and be a part of this commission. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Like Travis. MR. INABA: Exactly. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. MR. INABA: Yeah, thank you. Chair, I yield. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Inaba. Anyone else? Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, I'm completely in support of this. I think Council Member Kierkiewicz and I had attended a function in Puna when they were doing their resiliency plans. And so many of the youth, you know, were eager to participate and envision what their community would look like, and I see this as a perfect vehicle for them to integrate their voices. Not just in specific commissions, but as a broad range. I do have one question for the maker of this bill, and it's specifically related to "The Commission shall select three adult residents of the County to serve as an advisor." And just trying to be equitable, how you thought through that, because I would love to see some balance, you know, east, west, north, south; and why the number three? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Three seems manageable. And we deliberately kept it very open; wanting to make sure that it wasn't just stacked with folks in government, but also ensuring that, say we had folks in the private sector, nonprofit sector, education. And I really wanted to make sure that we were leaving it up to the youth to decide who they felt needed to be there helping them too, advising them on the commission. Page 6 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 MS. LEE LOY: Perfect. Yeah, I'm in support of this and look forward to moving this forward. I think to answer some of the other questions my colleagues will have, you know, a fiscal impact statement will need to be prepared as it reaches the ballot. And so, we'll actually know more as to what the cost will be on standing this up and keeping this active for the duration. So thank you for advancing this. Chair, I yield. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Anyone else? MS. VILLEGAS: Aloha, Chair. CHR. KIMBALL: Go ahead, Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Yes. We have Managing Director Lee Lord here in Kona Chambers, and he was hoping to make a comment. CHR. KIMBALL: Go ahead, Managing Director Lee Lord. (Note: At this time, Managing Director Lee Lord came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. LORD: Thank you, Council Person. And actually, it's correct in that she did discuss with Mitch and L Although since then, I've had some conversations with Bobby Command, who although I'm the Supervisor assisting supervising our Executive Assistants. Currently, Pomai is the person responsible and working very hard to keep the positions filled on boards and commissions. There are over 80 seats on those boards and commissions. Those boards and commissions also need a lot of support in setting up the meeting times, setting up locations. Then there's the questions of minutes. For example, this new board. So when Bobby and I spoke, one of the ideas that we had was that we might be looking at a secretary just for boards and commissions because at this point in time, Pomai has actually got her plate overfull just with boards and commissions. And we only have four other Executive Assistants who also have many projects on their plates. So, although we can work it out at some point, we don't really have any discretionary funds when we make the budget for the Mayor, but we can certainly start moving around and looking at what we can do. But I just wanted to put it out on the table that we would probably need some funding. And depending on how it would all work out, we're looking at possibly a secretary. Then again, we'd have to have the discussion with Pomai and the rest of the staff as to what would be the best, because this was a discussion with Deputy Managing Director Command and myself. Page 7 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Managing Director. Council Member Villegas, the floor is still yours if you had any additional comments. MS. VILLEGAS: I suppose I really enjoy and appreciate this idea brought forth by Council Woman Kierkiewicz. The need to include our young people in local government and provide them the avenues so that participation is not as intimidating and overwhelming, as it so often can be even for an adult. But it's kind of sounding to me that there may be some need for a little bit more clarification just on a couple of things based on ages. I'm a little confused. I suppose if a person could be on this commission at 14, but they need to be a registered voter, but you can't do that till you're 18, so correct me if I'm wrong, I got a little bit turned around in those things. But it sounds like there may be just some opportunity for a little more clarified verbiage there. And it sounds like it might be a heavy lift for the Administration. So I don't know, I'm just kind of wondering if in all the grand schemes of all the things that we want to bring forth then I also have to remember, kala mai, that the community will decide this because this is a Charter amendment. So it's bringing forth an opportunity for the community to decide on the ballot. So thanks for my talking in circles and tolerating that. I suppose I must need some more clarification when it comes to some of those other kind of confusing age-parameter issues. I yield. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. I'll go quickly to Council Member Kierkiewicz who can provide some clarity around the age language. MS. KIERKEIWICZ: Yeah, thank you Chair. I just want to clarify, what's meant here by age of majority. Age of majority of Hawaii is 18. And so, once you turn 18, we are requiring that you be a registered voter. Judge Strance, I don't know if you want to weigh in on that? But,you can't register to vote if you're not 18. Oh you can, 16? You can't when you're 14? But the age of majority here is 18. So hope that provides a little bit more clarification there. Thank you, Chair. CHR. KIMBALL: Anyone else? Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Yeah, I was going to ask a very similar question. I love the idea. I like that you're going to incorporate youth into government. It's incredibly important nowadays and there's a big disconnect between the folks in our community and the government. And so this would help kind of bridge that gap and get young Page 8 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 people involved. And may they all be as eloquent speakers as the young man who testified earlier today. Yeah, I mean, part of our job as Legislators is to make sure this is crystal clear. And there's a lot of questions today just about some of the wording in here. And is there any definitions page that goes with this, for some of these terms? I mean, it may or may not be needed, but in some places it may help. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: No there's no definitions here. Other than age of majority, was there any other particular terminology that was not clear to the body? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I was thinking about the word, Commission, but I think that's fairly clear. And then the age of majority is interesting. If it's a clearly definable word in the other places, you know, that's fine. And as I'm reminded by LRB (Legislative Research Branch) over and over again, I've got to make sure if it's a word that could be two or three different things, identify and define it. Why 24? I was thinking about 24. Twenty-four is fairly old. And if we're listening to youth, I mean, old in my eyes. But if we're thinking about youth, and we want to hear from the young people in our community, do you wantI know it's kind of hard because there's so many different personalities and brilliant people. And I can understand your age choice, but why 14? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So, 14, you're entering high school. And that comes with all of its complexities. You graduate. I finished college, I think, at 24. And so, it's good to know what folks in high school aspire to be. And when folks are in college and getting ready to jump into the workforce, understanding the challenges and barriers that they're seeing from entering into, you know,the local workforce. And so having that variety of perspective, I think is really going to be helpful to policy makers in figuring out how do we make sure we are supporting our `opio, because we always talk about we want to give them chance to like have meaningful work here. But sometimes we don't know what exactly they want to pursue or what struggles they might be facing. And so having that variety of perspectives will help us to know which policy levers to pull so that we are ensuring that if they want to work here, they can. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, then, 24? Page 9 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah, so how I mentioned earlier,just did some research around what national and international groups are defining as youth. And so, the majority was around 14 to 24-years-old. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So let's just say, given that kids are all over the place and families move, and Ms. Bartolome's trying to keep up with this Commission. And as I've seen, my kids are all over the place in what they love and what they want to do in goals—and that always changes. And having gone through college, and many of us have, we don't always end up doing what we set out to do. But I mean, let's just consider there's going to be a lot of rollover, so it's going to be incredibly difficult for Ms. Bartolome to keep up with it. I would assume just assuming now, I have no idea, but that kids are kids. And young adults are constantly changing their minds, what they're going to be doing, and we're asking them to commit to a two-year term. Just to keep that in mind, as the maker of the bill, because a lot of justI mean we're talking about our youth and they're always moving and doing new things. So hoping that they will achieve a two-year goal. I think it might be a bit much for some, and I think that might be worth looking at. And just in the mindset of what the Administration's going to have to do to keep up with the kind of role going on as they graduate high school and graduate college; and they're moving around doing their thing. So,just something to throw on the table. Other than that, thank you for bringing this forward. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Anyone else? Council Member Inaba, back to you. MR. INABA: Thank you. Just another question regarding their requirement for voter registration. To your knowledge, do we require that of any other board or commission member? For any of the others? And I support that, and I support for the record,this bill, but just maybe Corporation Counsel just want to make sure that when we put this forward, it's as good as we can get it to the public. And if there might be any legal concerns about requiring individuals to register to vote. (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. STRANCE: Thank you. Elizabeth Strance. I'll have to check and get back to you on that. Page 10 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. I mean, we all want everybody registered to vote. No doubt on that, but just want to make sure that we can require that. And Council Member Kierkiewicz, the intention for the three adult residents, it was just going to be given to the Commission once it's established for them to choose whoever and however they want to advise them? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That is correct. MR. INABA: Okay. Well, that's all I have. Yeah, if maybe again, the clarification on the residency or dependents, however we want see that. And the range, I think it's a very diverse range, but I think at 14 we kind of have some ability to, you know, have some meaningful discussions. So I think it is a good range. That's it. Thank you, Chair. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Inaba. Anyone else? No comments? Alright, we'll go ahead and proceed with the vote. All of those in favor? Vote on Bill 175: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 175 on the (Approved) first of three readings was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, and Chair Kimball—6. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members David, Richards, and Villegas —3. Excused: None. CHR. KIMBALL: Alright, moving on to the next item, please. Bill 179: AMENDS ARTICLE XIII, SECTION 13-8 OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CHARTER (2020 EDITION), RELATING TO TERMS OF OFFICE OF DEPARTMENT HEADS IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH FOR THOSE AGENCIES UNDER THE MANAGING DIRECTOR Provides that within 60 days of the County Council term beginning on December 5, 2022, and within 60 days of the beginning of every alternate Council term thereafter, that all department heads appointed by the Mayor and approved by the Council appear before the Council for a vote to retain each department head. Reference: Comm. 818 Intr. by: Mr. Chung Page 11 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 Motion to Approve: Mr. Chung moved to recommend passage of Bill 179 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Chung. MR. CHUNG: Thank you. You know, I'm obviously not going to get too many popularity votes from the Administration on something like this. But I did surface a similar measure back, maybe about seven years ago. That was defeated. But let me give you my reasons for surfacing something like this. And I'll give you, you know, how it was developed. As I've said in the past, you know, prior to 1994 or 1996, Council Members served four-year terms,just like the Mayor. But on, you know, staggered terms. Each of those Council Members would at some point, have a say in the department heads who were serving both them, the Mayor, and the community as a whole. But with the advent of the two-year terms, it brought on a situation whereby some Council Members would not have a say. For example, when Maile and I term out this year, our successors would not, under the current setup have a say in the Administrators who are going to be carrying out the policies of the County. And also with the advent of the two-year terms, and I think all of you can relate to this. And I'm going to use a term that was coined by Mr. Henricks, our County Clerk, who was really was helpful in putting this thing together. We have, for whatever reason, become ombudsmen for the County. More likely than not,the members of the public will come to each of the individual Council Members rather than anyone else. I think, anyway, that's my experience. I could be wrong. So that being the case, it's vitally important for us as Council Members to be able to work with the Administration and Administrators in getting things done. The reality, and this is only a presumption, you guys can make your own conclusions on this, once the confirmation process has been completed, I don't care what kinds of statements and words are made by the Administrators who have been confirmed to the contrary, their allegiance will go with the Mayor. The reason for that is, only the Mayor can remove the department heads under our present Charter arrangement. Now, one of the things I was toying with, was possibly having a removal mechanism, whereby maybe a super majority of Council Members, six members at the least could remove, for cause, a department head. But, you know, I kind of had to balance this whole philosophical thing about strong Mayor, weak Council. That's what the framers of this Charter came up with, and I'm totally willing to respect that. And I just thought that by putting too many things in there just kind of shifting the balance, and it just becomes unwieldly. So anyway, I worked with Mr. Henricks on something like this. Page 12 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 And another thing that came up too was, you know, I was wondering should I make this applicable to our present Administrators? You know, because in fairness to them, they had gotten confirmed with the expectation that they would have four-year terms. So is that fair, I mean, to now change the rules on them? That's for, you know, all of you to decide. You know, I'm not married to this specific proposal. If you guys want to change it; if you guys want to dump it, fine. You know, but I just wanted to put it forth because I did it before. And you know, I'm not going to have another chance to do it, so I figure I'd do it now, right? Another thing that I was really thinking about was, should we leave out the Managing Director? I have a real hard time on this whole idea of confirming the Managing Director, because that's the Mayor's person. It's almost like the Mayor butting into who we select for County Clerk. And this is the person who's going to succeed the Mayor in case something goes wrong, but I just left it as is. Because in the old days, Managing Director was not confirmed by the Council. It's just a new occurrence, and I figured whatever,just leave it in. So what we came up with, and I did get a call from my staff saying that Judge Strance wanted to speak to me, but I was up in Big Sur. And the reception over there in Big Sur is not too good, right? So, we'll find out what you have to say about this. It's probably some unconstitutional argument, but anyway. What this provides for is, it still retains the coterminous aspects of the department heads being coterminous with the Mayor. It retains that, but in an odd way, it still allows for them to be not confirmed. By and large, this makes for two-year terms for department heads. I mean when you put it simply, when you cut through all of this stuff, it makes for two-year terms. I think at this point, I'd like to hear from Corp. Counsel and see what they have to say. You know, I would say one more thing, or two more things, if I could. And this was in that newspaper article relating to this matter. The first one is, you know, for our County employees, our rank and file people. They all come in, they have to serve probationary periods. Of course, elected officials don't have to serve probationary periods. But, our own workers have to do that. They're subjected to that. They're going to, you know, be judged on how they perform. And yet, we have a certain timeline by which we have to either confirm or deny department heads and we do that. And you know, I use the term, sometimes we have to take a leap of faith, and I've been wrong before. And you know it's not going to be the first time and last time. But it just allows for a little bit more review of how department heads are doing and I think it also promotes the concept of continual improvement. And I really do, I feel strongly about that. And in my opinion, that can only benefit the County and the taxpayers and Page 13 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 everyone that the County serves. But that's my spiel. You guys do whatever you guys want with it, but why don't we hear from Corp. Counsel first and see what they have to say, because it's a mystery to me too. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Chung. Judge Strance, if you don't mind coming forward and responding, thank you. (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. STRANCE: Thank you, Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. I have two hats on this. And so, I've asked J to come because there's a particular impact that the proposed Charter amendment would have on our department. But I'll let him address that. MR. CHUNG: Before you start,though, we may have to fine tune this thing as it relates to the Corp. Counsel's Office, because the Corp. Counsel occupies a different kind of space per Charter and there's a reason for it. So I just thought I'd say that. So you know, I might look into changing something. MS. STRANCE: I was really calling you to say, what the heck. But you know, so I'm not going to come and say it's unconstitutional because I don't know for sure that it is. When the Hawaii State Constitution was enacted and the provisions in the Hawaii Revised Statutes regarding the creation of County Government was created, a fair amount of latitude was given to counties in crafting their government. There's a clause that gives the County their discretion, and then there's a clause, "Except as provided by General Law." And normally that's been interpreted to mean that where the Legislature acts, for example, the counties cannot act contrary to that. I think my main concern is that this really fundamentally changes the role of the Legislative body and the Executive Branch of Government. And so, under our current Charter, the Mayor appoints and the Council confirms or doesn't confirm the Mayor's choice of carrying out executive functions in government. And then the County Council has legislative purposes. And so, typically the confirmation process has been about whether people are qualified. But amendment is crafted almost as a performance review. And so, I think that there needs to be a thoughtful process in this about whether this body wants to propose what I think is a pretty fundamental change in the operation of Government in terms of the County Council's involvement in the execution of the Executive Branch of Government. Page 14 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 So that's my main concern, is what's on its face sounds like, okay you know, everybody should have a say. And the truth is that some people are going to get a say twice. But what is the purpose in the say? You know, is it a performance review, and if it's a performance review, what's the criteria? Because we have a Managing Director under our Charter construct that is a supervisor of department heads. And so, I haven't completed all of my research, because there's that general term provision. But as I said, the Legislature and under the Hawaii Constitution, County Governments are given pretty broad authority. It's just that I thought it was important to have that broader context for you to consider. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Judge Strance. Any other comments here in Hilo to start? Council Member Chung's time had expired. So, I'll just let folks chime in with comments and then return to you. Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Three years ago when I first started my Council term, I had a brief conversation with Mr. Chung about this. And I support it. That's it, period. I yield. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Anyone else herein Hilo? Kona? MS. VILLEGAS: I guess I have some reservations because of the amount of disruption this potentially could cause. Not just within the Director position, but there are people the director when you have the Secretary and the Deputy Director who the Director picks, then if there are people that have a right to return to their other positions, you just end up with a potentially very disruptive occurrence. However, I do really like the idea of there being a confirmation. And you know, I came in a mid-term during Mayor Kim's Administration. So I had no influence over the directors or approval in that process. Something I suppose I didn't even know I was missing out on. And after the last round, which had its challenges, I suppose I would place my valuing of a check-and-balance on the directors; I'd rather have them not start their jobs until after they're confirmed by the Council versus have to have a two-year reassessment. And maybe it's my simplistic thinking but it's just kind of beenI was just disappointed that there wasn't the last Charter amendment didn't pass, which would have brought Council Members to serve four-year terms instead of two-year terms. Because it is such a challenging timeframe. In order to get your feet under you to not only learn the system, but learn all the humans, establish the relationships. You know, ideally, pick up the positive momentum of prior leadership to keep our County moving in a direction of positive change. Page 15 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 Sometimes I think it's one of the plagues of government as we end up two steps forward, one step back. This is the priorities here but then they change after two years. So, I'm just kind of verbally processingI really like the intention of it, and I really appreciate Mr. Chung bringing this forward. He had served, coming up on 16 years as a County Council representative. So, I don't think I know of anyone with more experience than him in not only all the opportunities, but the challenges of operating in government. So, I suppose, I'm conflicted on this one. And I just wonder if there's not a better way to reclaim what I believe was intended in the Charter for the Council to have jurisdiction over approving and confirming department heads before they start their jobs, which I feel applies a little more equity in a number of capacities. So, with that, I yield. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. You know, I listened very carefully to Ms. Villegas, and I think like her I'm a little conflicted,too. And I'm going to walk you guys through my history here on the Council in hopes to bring clarity as to why I'm conflicted. When I started on the Council, I served Council Members in at-large positions. We selected six representatives from their respective districts and three at-large positions that were voted on by the entire island electorate, which brought a lot of continuity and this balance of strong Mayor, strong Council, because there was continuity there. Of course, portions of the island felt while there was strong voting power on the east side, which ended up selecting some of our west Hawaii representatives, and so, a Charter amendment was advanced to go to single-member districts partisan races for four years. And we did that. And then we found out, wow, four years is a long time for a Council Member in a particular party. And so the hook at the next Charter amendment was non-partisan elections, two-year terms. And through those various Charter amendments, we're here, and as Mr. Chung mentioned, strong Administration, weak Council. And so, I'm conflicted because I would love to see some of those checks and balances restored, because our ability to address our constituents' concerns is directly related to the Administration, the department heads, and having them do actionable things that our community is asking for, regardless of what the Administration's goals are. And so, I shared all of that to say, I see a lot of wisdom in this because I came on with an administration. And if I'm not mistaken, we went through four Public Works Directors because they came on retired; somebody got appointed, they Page 16 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 didn't want it; somebody else stepped up. And then we finally settled on somebody, and we were in a term where Council Member Kierkiewicz and Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder came on to confirm just that one department head, while everybody else remained. In addition, too, there was a lot of transition during that, where some people from Parks went to the Mayor's Office. There was a lot of shuffling with still no confirmation of those directors. Hence, my conflict. If this brings continuity and a managed expectation, I absolutely support it. I think there is some things Judge Strance brought up because Corporation Counsel serves an advisory role to both the Council and the Administration. So, I think there's room for wiggle. But I would love to see some of this go forward in some shape or form, because if we're going to continue to be single-member districts, two years and an eight-year term limit, I think for us as Council to be effective would be to establish good working relationships with the Administration and the department heads. And that comes with understanding how they choose to manage that department and if that fits with our constituents' concerns. So, thank you Mr. Chung for advancing this. I will also say I was reached out by former Council Member "Fresh" Onishi who voted against it the last time. And he said to me, "Sue, I wish I didn't." Knowing what he knows now, he would say, he would have voted for it. And that's the kind of information and history I've taken in to take this position. I'm wanting this to move forward because it brings some balance back. But I think there's some refinement that needs to happen. Thank you, Chair. Thank you for that latitude. I yield. CHR. KIMBALL: Yes, of course, Council Member Lee Loy. Thank you. Anyone else over here? Council Member Chung, back to you. MR. CHUNG: And you know, I'm glad that Sue gave more of the history of how the Council has changed. Because remember, I told you I'm still grappling with this whole philosophy of the strong Mayor, weak Council. But when they came UP with two-year terms, single-member district, we became weaker. The Council became even weaker. So you got to have some kind of balance. I mean, you know, you don't have to become equal, but at least bring it up a bit more. You know, I'm conflicted too. Had I not been conflicted, this Charter amendment would have come up way sooner, not at the last minute, right? And you can ask Mr. Henricks. We were just kind of like going back and forth. And there would be months where I wouldn't even talk to him about it. And then, I pop up again and say, we're going to look at this thing again? And this happened for over a year-and-a-half, really. Page 17 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 And you know, if it doesn't pass, it doesn't pass. But I really want you guys to think about it, because I'm not going to have a say in this later on. I'm out. But I really think, I feel strongly about this, that it's going to make for better government. It's just my personal feeling, though. But you know, maybe we can tweak it along the way. And I'm certainly not claiming ownership to this Charter amendment. If you guys want to tweak it or even make it where you can have a super majority to do this; whatever it is we're asking for, either approving or if you want to get rid of a department head, you know, after two years, but you know, it has to be done by super majority, or something like that. I just think, you know, we should be striving for continual improvement, and this is something that will allow it to happen. Thank you. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Chung. Any other comments here? Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Council Member Chung, you've given me a lot to think about. And I'm so on the fence on this one, because I think about all the work that goes into running and island-wide race and becoming Mayor and you having four years to put the vision you sold voters on into action and assembling your team. So that's where the reservation strikes. I mean it's very hard as it is to find people willing to serve four years in County Government knowing all the complexities we're having to navigate. And then having to go through a potential confirmation process twice. And we know how we are, right? We demand the very best of people that want to serve in these capacities. And it's just—it's hard, it's a lot. And like, you know, Council Member Villegas was saying, the disruption. I'm concerned about the internal instability and potential chaos that could ensue with just having many changes within leadership. I feel that you're trying to send a message to the Administration here around maybe a few people that need to be put on notice. And I wonder if something like a resolution where we're doing a vote of no confidence might be a little bit more effective. I don't know. I mean it's something that I suggested to Mayor Kim about somebody that he ended up letting go later in the month. So, I think those are tools that we have to leverage. It's hard for me to kind of put in Charter in this point in time, because I think there's a lot of folks that are serving in these director positions that are doing an excellent job. And I would just hate to put them through the ringer once more. I don't think I can be supporting this particular iteration today. I'd like to see some amendments to it,perhaps at Council that might be able to change my mind and make it a little bit more palatable. But I just worry about unintended Page 18 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 consequences and potential disruption that this may have in future administrations. Thank you, Chair. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, back to you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Question for Mr. Chung or Ms. Strance, but Article VII. Why specifically Article VII? Does that leave any department heads unaccounted for? Sorry, Article VI. Thank you, sorry. MR. CHUNG: Well, if I can answer that. Yeah, Article VI, I don't have it in front of me, but that's the article that prescribes how, you know, the term of office for each department head. You know, whether it be the Department of Public Work, and all of those that are under the supervision of the Managing Director. So it goes one by one. But instead of going one by one, and you know amending each and every one of those, Mr. Henricks and I just said, hey let's just make a catchall and just go it with this Section 13-8. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. MR. CHUNG: And we could do it the other way too. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Does it cover every department head that we have interaction with? MR. CHUNG: All those that are under Article IV, under the Managing Director. So, it's not going to be the Police Chief, not the Fire Chief. Although I've got to say, you know,just tangentially, you guys might want to think about the possibility of afterwards, you know—getting off the subject—but you know, for those department heads, particularly public safety, because that's vital to the operations of the County, and they are appointment by a non-elected board, which is good. So you can let them do it, one time. And you can even let them do it another time. But I think, like anything else, after eight years, they can nominate and it comes to the County Council. That's just my thought, but you guys do whatever you guys want with that. But it's only for those under the Managing Director. So, that would be the Managing Director, which I really didn't think he or she should be in there. Department of Public Works, Parks and Recreation, IT (Information Technology), Corp. Counsel, which we might have to change a little bit. Department of Financeno, she's not going anywhere, you know that already, right? Planning Department, Research and Development, Environmental Management, all of those. Page 19 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 And I'll just give you an example. So Department of Information Technology, "Appointment and Removal. The director of information technology shall be appointed by the mayor, confirmed by the council and may be removed by the mayor." That's what it says. And all coterminous, yeah. And then, pretty much, that's what it says for every other department head. So I could have changed each and every one of these chapters within Article VI, but that would have been too cumbersome, I think. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I agree. Okay, and then I'm wondering about this process, "Council shall approve or deny the retention of each department head." So, upon nomination, you know, whoever comes into office, December 5h, they have 60 days, two months to figure out who stays, who goes? Some kind of a hearing? I mean, we're going to hear the departments again? MR. CHUNG: Similar to the confirmation process. But,this Charter amendment would not preclude the Council from amending their rules to maybe, for example, go one hearing straight to Council. Not having to go to the Committee, and then to Council. You can just fast-track it to the Council so that, you know, there's that much less disruption. But it could be handled by rules of the Council. I thought about that too. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Well, I like it. That's all I've got to say. You answered my questions. Thank you very much, appreciate it, Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Thank you. CHR. KIMBALL: Go ahead, Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, you know, Ms. Kierkiewicz really articulated some of the thoughts I had that would be against it. You know, I was kind of fighting with myself. There was a lot of internal conflicts going back and forth, right? Is this good, is this bad? I mean, overall it is good, I believe. And if not, I wouldn't have surfaced this. But of course there are some downsides. And you really hit them all on the head. And Ms. Villegas as well. But you know, ultimately, this body is the policy-making body. The Mayor, whom all of these guys are under, are supposed to be carrying out the policy of the County Council. So, I mean,just in your own mind, try to think about how or what would be a good balance? If this goes too far, you know, against the Administration? Then so be it. But if it gets defeated, just think about it. I hope this just doesn't die a real awful death and nothing ever came of it, right? Page 20 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 You know, hopefully someone could come up with a better package someday. And you know, but you guys are going to find out that—like you said, Mr. Onishi, to this very day. And this is my good friend now, "Fresh"right? And he voted against it. And that's his prerogative, right? But ever since that day, he kept on telling me, no, he made a mistake. So, I'm glad he admitted that to you, too. Anyway, alright. Thank you. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Chung. I don't think we've ever gotten such an in-depth view of your internal ruminating's about these subjects. I'm going to actually give Managing Director Lord, who is in Kona, the opportunity to say a few words. We are behind schedule, so I ask you to keep it brief. And then, we also have Deputy Corp. Counsel here as well. So, Managing Director, go ahead briefly again, please. Thank you. (Note: At this time, Managing Director to the Mayor Lee Lord, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. LORD: Hi, Lee Lord, Managing Director. I do respect everyone's intentions of the discussions that have happened. With some thought, I really can't see this happening without it disrupting a lot of what happens in the County. We spend two, sometimes three months having the County Council have discussions about the appointees and if they want to confirm them or not. And then once we have people on board, some of them are from outside the County. We do on-boarding, where they have to learn how things happen with Human Resources, Finance, Corp. Counsel, and the other operating parts of the County, which takes time to get them up and running. And that's all great when we have a four-year plan with the Mayor. And you know who your team members are. Making it a two-year thing would mean that if there's a possibility in two years, I might not get reconfirmed, first of all, am I going to take the position and leave as Council Woman Villegas pointed out, a job where I have no return rights to in the County? And that would have been my situation. I have no return rights at this point in time, for just something that might only be two years. On top of that, as it was also mentioned, there are the deputy directors,the secretaries. And in many cases, there are one, two,three, and four people who would be bumped back to their old positions, because the deputy directors if they're from the County, and those secretaries, have return rights. And the people that they're bumping have return rights. And it's a reality. In the Prosecutor's Office we had three people in our finance department, and two of them, if they ever wanted to go back to their positions, it would have been affecting four people each. Page 21 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 In the middle of the Mayor's term, we're talking about reorganizing a whole team. And the Mayor's got his agenda going on, and we're stopping everything that's happened. And then, there's those employees who are sitting around even when we initially get people appointed, but not confirmed yet. They're sitting in their office going, is this person going to stay or not going to stay. It's very unsettling, we're destabilizing the government at that point in time, until they're confirmed and we know they're going to be here. And you're going to do that every two years to the staff at that point in time. I believe that the government, Federal, State and County has three branches of government. Once the executive,judicial branches and legislative branches are set, there shouldn't be a lot of control or change available to one branch and to the other branch, because they're got to do their work. That's not really good government. The other part is this last January when you all were having the discussions at County Council, and as it's been pointed out, appointments. And what the Mayor is required to do is make sure the people are fully qualified by experience and ability to perform the duties of that office or position. And that's what the County Council was confirming. Their experience and ability to perform the duties. They have the capability. If we've confirmed once at the County Council, why would we need two years later to confirm that somebody has the qualified experience and ability to perform the duties? Their experience and education is only going to increase. It's not going to decrease. So that's a bit confusing to me on that side. Lastly, we're talking about changing something here in perpetuity for the County and part of the discussion here, as Judge Strance started stating, it sounds like disciplinary action or supervision. Clearly in the Charter, the supervision of these directors that are confirmed falls under my jurisdiction. Our office is always open. Every time any Council Member has an issue wants to come and talk to us, we say, "Yes." We've reached out and we've asked every Council Member to come every quarter; have our open discussions. If there's issues we address them. I can't sit here and say anything about supervision or disciplinary action, because it's against the law for me to talk about that when somebody's an employee in the State of Hawaii. But, we're moving forward and I think that this would be very disruptive to the County. And as Councilman Chung stated, that going the two years kind of weakened the County Council. Why would we choose to then go to two years with the Administration and weaken the Administration instead of figuring out a way to strengthen the County Council and go back to four years? Page 22 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 Lastly, the date of the change of this is November, December 2022. We have people who've given up their other jobs outside the County and in the County to come and work with the Roth Administration for four years. We're now in the middle of two years; going to tell them, "Oh, your job depends on confirmation, come November, December of 2022." That's not what they signed up for. I don't think that's fair. If this were to move forward, I would say, it would have to be started in the next Administration or the next time the Mayor is voted on. That would be only fair. These people need to be grandfathered in. We have secretaries who've got lives. We have people who'd be out of jobs and need to do it. Without the expectation, when they took the job, that that could have happened. I really appreciate you listening to me, and if you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Managing Director. And before we go on, I'll actually invite, Deputy Director Yoshimoto up as well to make a few comments. (Note: At this time, Assistant Corporation Counsel J Yoshimoto came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. YOSHIMOTO: Good afternoon, Council Members. Okay, you're strapped for time, I understand that. But there's a lot to unpack. Let me start, because I think this requires, as Council Member Chung said, a thoughtful deliberative process. And so, if you'll bear with me and if I'm taking too long,just of course CHR. KIMBALL: Try to keep it at ten minutes. Can you agree to that? Like the very max, okay. Your time is starting now. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Okay, thank you. It's rare that I talk more than five minutes. But anyway, okay. Specific to our office, we believe it could potentially have a chilling effect on the recruitment and retention of deputies. Currently, it's a tight job market and it's just really difficult, not only to get new attorneys into the office to fill positions, of course, but to retain them as well. So that's kind of self-explanatory. I can get into details if you want to, but that's there. Now, I also wanted to share some thoughts, because sat up there; having sat now with the Administration, there's some perspective here. Because there's a lot of wisdom in the end-goal, right? But of course, the key is how you get there. Where you want to go. You want accountability. You want to be able to provide input to the Administration, right? All true. At the same time, you know,the County's goal as a whole is to provide continuity of services, making sure we're always striving to do our best,things of that nature. Page 23 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 I think, you know, by changing things up, you could improve it, but you could also make it more difficult. And the dangerous part is, you don't know what's going to happen, until it happens, right? So in other words, if the tools are already in place because it's in the Charter,then it's really hard to take that back. So to me, my advice is to make sure that the approach going forward covers all of the concerns and bases, you know, potential pitfalls that are along the way. Political ramifications, we've seen, I've seen, many have seen differences of opinion between the Legislative Branch and the Administration, right? So to me the caution is, you don't want it to get to be where it's truly political. You want it to be merit-based as far as qualifications, performance, things of that nature, right? We all want to be that way, but in reality, that's not always the case. And I think, you know, our society has shown that in many different forms. And that's why, I think, this Council, it's imperative that you make sure that those kind of things don't happen. Now, back when I was on the Council and we talked about establishing the Legislative Auditor and I initially wanted six years because I wanted the auditor to have, you know,that insulation from the political process to be free to do their job, right? I negotiated it down to four years, but I insisted on super majority, six votes to remove. Because hopefully at that number, you know, you can make sure that what you're doing is the right decision. Because having sat there; having watched this body, five votes, I mean that's easier to come by than six votes, I think, right? Let's see, in terms of how you're going to do the evaluation. You know, because in the situations moving forward, there's going to be some Council Members who will have no experience; there's some who have a lot of experience, right? How do you do that process? Is this a performance evaluation? Is it just based upon their resume, you know, things of that nature. So, there's no real set criteria, and I think this has been the subject of lawsuits before, then we need to think that through to make sure. Because I don't know that the Council Members are keenly aware of what department heads do when they're not here. In other words, the administrative matters;personnel matters, which is confidential, but still part of their job, right? So there's a lot to unpack in what they do with their jobs. So to me, we would want to make sure that whatever process there is, if the Council wants it to be something that the Council can rely upon, I think that would help the process. Not only for the people who are being subject to being confirmed, but also future Councils, so they don't just go off on different tangents long after we're here and no longer here. Let's see, and the thought is Council terms, four years, right? Mr. Chung mentioned and I think Ms. Lee Loy mentioned that, it was four years before, Page 24 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 right? And so, I wasn't aware of how that worked with the departments. But just my basic understanding is because both were appointed for four years, you're with each other the entire way. So maybe another option is to maybe level that playing field in that manner. I know that's been voted on at least a couple of times. But I think, you know, arguments or concerns are being raised today that might merit that thing discussed again. But that's up to the Council Members, right? So, the key for me is that it's just the uncertainty, because it can definitely help, but I also think it could also be a hinderance, depending on how you, you know, exercise that responsibility. So anyway, that's all I have. Thank you. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Deputy Yoshimoto. Apologies again for misstating your name earlier. Any other conversation before proceed to the vote. Council Member Chung. MR. CHUNG: I won't take too long. And you know, got to respect J, right, because he's been here, and he went through a lot of stuff too, with Charter amendments. So he knows his way around here. And I heard what Mr. Lord said. All good points. I cannot disagree with any, right? But when you talk about disruption, nothing precludes the Administration, the Mayor, from changing his department heads, too. So you know, he can remove any of the department heads. I don't see any criteria in that one in the Charter regarding the removal. And during the last Administration, we had three Public Works Directors. What kind of disruption is that, right? So disruption happens. It's just how things go. You know, so to be afraid of disruptions kind of flies in the face of what's been happening in the past. And I don't recall hearing a lot of people grumbling, hey you know, this is causing a lot of disruption, whenever we had to get a new Public Works Director. Three Public Works Directors we had during that last four years. And one thing, I don't know, and I should have looked it up. And I was trying frantically to get in touch with my staff people. I think one of the other counties has two-year terms, you know, for department heads. I'm not too sure, I could be wrong on that. But that's something, you know, I'd like to look at. But I mean, there will be a disruptive affect, of course. And there might be even a chilling effect in getting good people. But do we have the most qualified people? Have we always had the most qualified department heads? I can safely say, no, right? I'd be foolish to say that, yeah, we always had the best and the brightest. We could always have done better. So, and actually, getting off the point, I think, you know, like for Public Works, Environmental Management stuff, too restrictive the qualifications. I hear a lot of people telling me for Public Works you don't need to be an engineer. Most of the people in that department are not engineers. As long as either the Number One or Page 25 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 Number Two are an engineer, that should be enough. And they've got to be registered, or certified, or licensed. They can stamp off. Same thing with Environmental Management. I'm not picking on those guys, okay, but this is something that has been told to me many, many years, all you need to be, is a good administrator. The only one that really has to be restrictive is Corp. Counsel. You've got to be a lawyer, cannot help. It's just by its nature already, you got to go to court. But everything else. Why do we have to make it so restrictive, the pool of people? You're only getting the intelligency already, and it's not right. You know, get people who are willing to serve and who can do a good job and work with people. That's all we need. But that's getting off the topic. Sorry, thank you. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Thank you for this second opportunity. If I could actually ask Mr. Yoshimoto to come on back, because there was some conversation. And I want to say, Mr. Chung, this has sparked so many avenues of areas that we could improve. Thank you for being here. I had a concern around return rights. I think Mr. Lord touched upon that. And I actually see that as an area in which we could actually improve. And I think that has a lot to do with, oftentimes they step into these director roles to get their high-three before stepping out. Mr. Yoshimoto, where are those return rights afforded? Is it in the Charter, in the Code? Is it contractual with their union? Where is that housed? MR. YOSHIMOTO: My understanding is that would be contractual with the unions. But I'd have to double check to be one hundred percent positive. MS. LEE LOY: And I think therein lies some of the area of improvement, right, if you know you can fall back somewhere. You know, we've had directors talk about burning the ships at the shore. Everybody's working so hard because they have nowhere else to go. And I'm just thank you for answering that question. And the other one was that chilling affect with Corporation Counsel, because oftentimes a lot of the matters that are litigated with the department go beyond eight terms here as a Council Member. So having some continuity within the department is actually a good thing, so that a lot of the case and the case history resonates with that individual attorney. And having a director change through some of that decision-making actually wreaks a lot of havoc. So,thank you. Page 26 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 MR. YOSHIMOTO: I agree one hundred percent, because as you mentioned, many of these cases, you know, go for years and years. And especially with our office in terms of continuity, to me it's really significant because when you have a high turnover in our office, then you know, there needs to be new people to relearn what's going on, as well as the department heads. MS. LEE LOY: Great. And I know oftentimes, you guys are assigned to a specific department head in which they also have boards and commissions. And so bringing them up to speed on all the matters that are, not only the Director's decisions, but some of the boards and commissions' decisions also rest with the Deputy assigned to that department, correct? MR. YOSHIMOTO: That's correct. That's how the structure of our office is. Yah, correct. MS. LEE LOY: Okay. You know, Mr. Chung, I'm going to be voting "kanalua, yes." I think I see a whole bunch of areas we can improve. I don't know if this is the whole vehicle or parts of it. But, thank you for providing this opportunity on areas that we can improve. Thank you Chair, I yield. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Anyone else? Okay, I'll just make a few brief comments. Council Member Chung, I really appreciate you putting this forward and the lively discussion today. You know, the imbalance between the Executive Branch and the Legislative Branch became more and more apparent to me over the time serving my first term here. And you know, as you mentioned, it was designed that way. And although there have been modifications overtime, it was fundamentally initially designed that way. And I think it is important for us to find a mechanism to achieve a greater balance. Some of that, I think, is actually ourselves and our own inner operations and how we conduct ourselves and conduct business to present ourselves as a more unified FOIL (Freedom of Information Law) to the Administration. But I also think there are some systematic proposals. And I think we've touched on some of them today. I'm going to be voting in favor of this today, so that we can continue to have discussions and keep it on the Charter amendment timeline. One of the things that I have considered in the past and would add to the plethora of options here, is actually the Managing Director position. There are other jurisdictions that actually, the Council hires the Managing Director and they serve a more administrative role with respect to the department heads. So,they do the performance reviews and do the money stuff, and it's more of a technical position. Whereas the Mayor is more of the honorary position and has authority to nominate the folks to carry out his mission and vision. But then, you just take that layer out and have the Council hire and have the Managing Director be responsible. Page 27 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 About half of the municipalities in this country use that Managing Director model where they have to have a degree in Municipal Management. Again, maybe that makes our pool too small. But something also to throw into the mix for folks to ruminate between now and the next hearing. And with that, yes, very quickly. I missed the 4:00 o'clock deadline. We are at 4:00 o'clock. Two minutes. MR. CHUNG: I'm sorry, I just wanted to make a comment about that idea, because you know, a former colleague of mine, Curtis Tyler, whom I very much respect, was a big proponent of the County Manager arrangement. I mean, I can't say I'm really warmed up to it myself, but he was. He really felt that that was, you know, a good arrangement. But I think that's something that has to be brought up by—you guys got to discuss that later on. Okay. CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Chung. And with that, I'm going to ask you to do a roll call vote on this, Mr. Clerk, please. Vote on Bill 179: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 179 on the (Approved) first of three readings was carried by the following roll call vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball–6. Noes: Committee Member Kierkiewicz–1. Absent: Committee Members David and Richards –2. Excused: None. (Note: Ms. Lee Loy and Ms. Villegas voted"kanalua" then "aye.") CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. With that, I'll take a motion to adjourn? Page 28 GOREDC-28 May 31,2022 ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 4:02 p.m., Mr. Inaba moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members David and Richards—2. Excused: None. CHR. KIMBALL: We are adjourned. Approved: >g(g01 M Heather L. Ki tall, Chair (Date) Government Operati o ns, Relations, and Economic Development Committee HK/dt Page 29