HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PRPSC 2022/09/06 2020-2022 Committee on Parks and Recreation
and Public Safety
35th Session
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaii
September 6, 2022
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Parks and Recreation and Public
ORDER: Safety was called to order at 10:43 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair
Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member
Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards III, Member (came in later)
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member
Absent& Excused: Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Chair
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak to comment regarding Bill 195,
Draft 2, (Comm. 911.2), and came forward when called by the Chair.
Carolyn Pellett.
Chris Hirose.
Dwight Vicente.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Let's go to our first order of
business then, Mr. Clerk.
PRPSC-35 September 6,2022
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business.
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
Bill 195: AMENDS CHAPTER 7, OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016
(Draft 2) EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO DISASTER AND EMERGENCY
MANAGEMENT
Changes the title of Chapter 7 from "Civil Defense"to "Disaster and Emergency
Management" and revises and reorganizes the sections therein. Replaces
definitions, inserts sections to clarify Civil Defense Agency organization and
duties, clarifies requirements for Emergency Action Plans and use of multi-
governmental services; and delineates the Mayor's authority to declare a state of
disaster or emergency and ability to exercise emergency powers.
Reference: Comm. 911.2
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz
Postponed: August 16, 2022
(Note: There is a motion by Ms. Kierkiewicz, seconded by Ms. Lee Loy, to
recommend passage of Bill 195, Draft 2, on first reading.)
ACTING CHR KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Discussion then,
Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Just want to thank my colleagues for a really
robust discussion at our last committee meeting, and the opportunity to come back
with amendments that were crafted in partnership with Civil Defense and
Corporation Counsel.
High level overview of some of the amendments that are in your pinkie folder,
clarifying the purpose specifically related to hazards, providing a bit more
clarification around what exactly a warning point is, also clarifying some
grammatical errors that were pointed out by Legislative Review Branch, and
finally, a bit more clarification around the electronic media transmission, as it
relates to emergency powers. So with that being said, I'll start with the first
amendment.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 195, Draft 2,
with the contents of Comm. 911.5. Seconded by
Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes, thank you, Chair. There were questions and concerns
that you saw by my colleagues about what was meant by civil disturbance, enemy
attack. And so one of the things that we were able to do with Civil Defense was
just take a look at FEMA's (Federal Emergency Management Agency) definition
of what it means to be in an emergency hazard, and so this new language reflects
that, addressing emergencies resulting from human cause, natural, and
technological hazards. And so do want to turn it over to our Civil Defense
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Administrator to provide any more comments that he might have about this
particular clarification.
(Note: At this time, Civil Defense Administrator Talmadge Magno came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mr. Magno, go ahead.
MR. MAGNO: Hi. Good morning. Talmadge Magno, Civil Defense
Administrator. I think we've worked together to come up with language and
solutions that will address all the concerns last time. And so at this point, I'll turn
it over to Barry Periatt to go over the individual questions here.
(Note: At this time, Administrative Officer Barry Periatt came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MR. PERIATT: Good morning, I'm Barry Periatt. I'm an Administrative Officer
with Hawaii County Civil Defense Agency. And specifically on this measure,
what we've looked at, the language that was in the draft bill was the original
language in Chapter 7, so that's why it was brought forward. After bringing it to
our attention, yes, it's more appropriate to use the FEMA (Federal Emergency
Management Agency) definition. They identify three major hazard types, which
are now identified here in the amendment.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks, you guys. So again, this is just to provide a bit
more clarity around the scope of Civil Defense and when they would be activated
to serve community. Happy to answer any questions, and look forward to
comments from my colleagues. Thank you.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz.
Council Members, any discussion on the amendment? Ms. Villegas, go ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, I just want to express my gratitude for you taking the
time and consideration to go back and talk to the powers that be, and look at the
documents that are already in existence to make sure that these are in alignment. I
think it's very helpful, and it relieves other concerns in order to align this with the
FEMA definition, so thank you for that. And I will be supporting this transition
and clarification of terminology. Thank you.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Okay,
seeing no further questions, we have the motion on the floor to amend Bill 195,
Draft 2, with the contents of Comm. 911.5. All in favor?
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Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 195, Draft 2, with the contents
to Amend: of Comm. 911.5 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Richards, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Inaba— 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 195, Draft 2,
with the contents of Comm. 911.6. Seconded by
Ms. Lee Loy.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. A number of our colleagues had brought up at
the last committee meeting,just having some confusion around what was meant
by "warning point." There was, you know, mention of referencing Hawaii
Revised Statute, and so we went through that, and there is a mention of warning
point in HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes) 127A. But if you review the list of
definitions, there is no definition of"warning point."
And so we did a lot of research looking at other ordinances, taking a look at what
FEMA meant by warning point, and crafted what we believed made the most
sense. But the little clarification that we did hear was we mentioned that the
warning point is a division within the Civil Defense operation that is charged
with, and then there's the rest of the definition: receiving, disseminating
emergency and non-emergency info to and from state partners, first responders,
local governments in a timely manner. So we hope that clarifies any confusion
about what a warning point might actually mean. And when you take this
definition and you plop it into where it is located in the actual draft ordinance, it
does provide a bit more clarity. So, happy to answer any questions on this one as
well. Thank you.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz.
Discussion? Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you. I just have a question, for Civil Defense
Administrator. Does this division create for you any logistical or expense
challenges, or does it already exist in essence?
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MR. MAGNO: As Council Woman Kierkiewicz says, it's going to be a whole
another branch within our operation. So it's going to require fiscal additions plus
logistically setting up our office to be able to function this way.
MS. KIMBALL: And do you think that it makes sense to break that out and
provide that additional, I mean, I assume that means additional staff?
MR. MAGNO: Yes, and it will be a 24-hour operation.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay.
MR. MAGNO: I point out that 24-hour operations within the County, you have
Public Safety departments running 24-hour operations. They are very busy with
what—dealing with the responsibilities that they are. We see the responses that
we have in the County, and our focus also needs to be to that level. The State
runs their warning point 24 hours. But we need that capability on this island and
it comes with all that requirements, as well.
MS. KIMBALL: Great. Yeah, thank you for that. I certainly agree that having
this key function fully supported within Civil Defense is critical. I think as we
have the conversation about this one when we get to Council, maybe we can have
some numbers around what that's going to be when we look at the next budget
cycle. Oh, go ahead.
MR. PERIATT: If I may add to that? The responsibilities of the warning point
right now, the County warning point are currently being done by the Hawaii
Police Department Dispatch.
MS. KIMBALL: I see.
MR. PERIATT: Okay. And in our experience over the years they have their
own job obviously, dispatch and police officers. So when it comes to the
emergency management piece, through no fault of their own, they get busy doing
their job, and sometimes that falls between the cracks.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you for that clarification. Again, I fully support the
intention. I'm just a little curious about the fiscal impact of said change. Thank
you, Chair. I yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball.
Ms. Lee Loy, you had your light on earlier.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. I'll speak at the end, after we move in all the
amendments. Thanks.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Mr. Chung.
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MR. CHUNG: Yeah. You know, I guess I'm okay with this. But how much is
this going to cost, this new division?
MR. MAGNO: I'll turn it over to
MR. CHUNG: Okay.
MR. PERIATT: Okay, the way we've structured it, we're using current job
descriptions for Police Dispatch, Fire Dispatch. The total that comes out is
$427,000. That would be personnel. So that's 10 personnel to man this warning
point seven days a week, 24 hours a day.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, okay. You know, I'm just kind of curious though, why
the definition didn't more closely mirror what the language that's in HRS
Section 127A-7, relating to State warning points, well, the State and then the
County, "Each County shall establish and operate a communications and warning
center that shall be known as a county warning point. The county warning points
shall be continually staffed by the respective counties,"which you guys are doing,
"and shall be capable of communicating with the state warning points at all
times." And then "The county warning points shall provide timely warning and
notification to government officials and the public, when directed." I mean, I can
see sort of accomplishes that, right? But I'm just kind of wondering why it wasn't
more closely mirrored to this.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That was quite a mouthful, and so we did our best to
simplify the language and make it very clear and simple. Because oftentimes
MR. CHUNG: Okay. All right. I get it. There we go. All right, you made it
shorter.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes, we did.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, yeah. Because that would have probably meant creating a
division anyway, what's in here. You know, "to establish and operate a
communications and warning center. So that's the same thing, the division?
MR. PERIATT: Yes.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. All right. I'm okay, then. Thank you.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung.
Ms. Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah,just a quick question. I'd like to think that there may be
opportunity. And perhaps, you could shed some light on potential grant funding
sources. As we've seen as an island in the last few years, we've definitely had an
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uptick of disasters. And as also mentioned, when the Police Department has been
currently filtering and responsible for these notices, I can only imagine that during
times like this, their phones are ringing off the hook from just constituents looking
for direction and support.
So I'm just wondering, and I suppose being hopeful, but I'm not too afraid of the
price tag. It seems a wise investment when compared to the potential costs of
information not being disseminated fast enough. But can you shed any light on
potential grant funding or partnership collaborative support?
MR. MAGNO: There is federal funding that is available out there, although we
have not specified which ones we're going for at this time. But we do utilize both
Homeland Security monies and FEMA mitigation monies. And partnership
would be along with State Emergency Management; that we receive emergency
management program grants from, as well. We plan to work with them as we
grow, for them to support this branch within our department.
MS. VILLEGAS: Fantastic. Thank you. Just one more quick question. Of that
$427,000 per year, for the 10 people 24/7, is any of that funding related to first
time hard costs, for desks or equipment, or any of that kind of stuff that then
would be reduced in following years?
MR PERIATT: No, ma'am. That$427,000 is just personnel cost.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay.
MR. PERIATT: And so the other funding, the equipment—and we have much of
that equipment already in place because we do the messaging and we do the
monitoring. However, we will look at grant funding to be able to fully equip that
operation.
MS. VILLEGAS: Fantastic. Thank you so much for providing this,just a little
bit of extra information for me. I yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas.
Anyone else? Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Yeah. Just a quick question. Mr. Periatt, thank you for explaining
that. Up until this point—and thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz, for bringing this
forward because I think it made us aware we never had a warning point division
in Civil Defense, which was being handled up until this point by the Police
Department, right? Okay. So I think that is one of the biggest concerns. I think
the biggest accomplishments that this amendment is going to have on this County,
I think it makes so much sense to have a division such as this dedicated in the
Civil Defense Department.
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So I'm going to support all of these amendments, Ms. Kierkiewicz, and thank you
for bringing that out and bringing awareness of the needs that you folks had that
never had before. So thank you so much. I yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. David. I have a
question, if I can, if everyone is done. So $427,000 employees only, not
including overhead, is there a new building, a new center for this warning point?
Is it all falling in an existing infrastructure, or is there going to be rent and lease,
and blah, blah going on after this?
MR. MAGNO: Well at this point, I'm not sure if you're aware but, REOC
(Regional Emergency Operations Center) is going under renovation. It's taking
longer than we expected already. But there will be some growth allowed in there,
at this point. We looked to—as the Emergency Communication Center is
developed on Mohouli Street, and some of that equipment is removed from our
facility, we looked to have additional space that we kind of grow this branch into.
Not saying that there might not be need for additional space at some time, but our
plan is long-range. It's out there a number of years. And so, it will grow. It
would outgrow what we have at this point as well, at some time.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so possibly in the future to
this point, $427,000 seems to be, you know, your plus or minus 10 percent, I'm
guessing, what do you think it's going to cost to start and have ? Just to follow
up to that, 10 people that's not going to be 10 people 24-hours a day. That's
going to be one, two, three people rotating in and out, yeah?
MR. PERIATT: Correct. It would be two persons staffing each eight-hour shift
each day.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And in the warning point that's
being created, or within dispatch or—where you guys (inaudible).
MR. PERIATT: No, in the warning point. We have a room available in the
current EOC (Emergency Operations Center), where a lot of these actions are
done. It's a little limited in space, but it's sufficient until we move forward with a
new facility, and that's also in the long-range plan.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then is there—are
the employees that's going to be there, two people in the warning point? Are they
relieving duty from HPD (Hawai`i Police Department), or just in a time of like an
eruption or a tsunami? That's where that alleviation on HPD is going to happen.
So if they're calling the warning point versus the nonemergency number, is my
thinking about that right or wrong?
MR. PERIATT: No. This is to take the place or to become the warning point,
taking that responsibility off the Hawaii Police Dispatch. So the calls coming in,
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they have a nonemergency number, Police Dispatch, that would be the number
they're going to be calling to the warning point to make these inquiries.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So the nonemergency
number, how does it split when it comes in to the County?
MR. PERIATT: Okay, we'll have a separate number.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you.
MR. PERIATT: So that would be publicized when this does happen.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so a warning point has its
own number, nonemergency has its own number.
MR. PERIATT: Correct.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So you will start to relieve duties
from HPD. I'm not saying that's a bad thing; it's a good thing. Just relieving the
inundation of calls, which I think seems to be a movement right now.
MR. PERIATT: Yeah, that is an issue in Police Dispatch. They do get over
whelmed, and like I said, that's not their fault. That's why some of the times our
stuff gets dropped, because they're taking care of what they're responsible for.
So this should, in theory, alleviate that.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Beautiful. Thank you.
Very good explanation. Okay, I have no further questions. Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. If I could just wrap up this particular
amendment. Thank you, everyone, for your support. Thank you, Council
Member Villegas, for just elevating the idea of going after potential grant
opportunities. I think that there is a stark recognition from the Federal
Government that we need to be more resilient as counties, and ensure that we
have the operational infrastructure to support that.
And so to Administrator Magno's point, about collaborating with HI-EMA
(Hawai`i Emergency Management Agency), to see what that State agency can do
to support counties and their quest to have warning points established, I think
that's something for us to talk story about now, ahead of the next legislative
session.
And then to the point that Chair David made about, you know, this being an
important moment in time, where we're understanding like the critical needs of
fully staffed Civil Defense, I think this whole exercise of us going through the
statute and taking a look at what we have in our ordinance and figuring out where
we want the Civil Defense Agency to go, has been extremely helpful. I know that
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the dream of Barry and Talmadge is to have 10 folks staffing the warning point,
but that might not be fiscally possible this time around.
There are a lot of needs within our County, but this provides an opportunity for us
to elevate what your needs are so that we can get ahead of it next budget cycle.
So just thanks for that. Chair, I have nothing else to add for this particular
amendment.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. So
we have the motion on the floor to amend Bill 195, Draft 2, as amended with the
contents of Communication 911.6. All in favor?
Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 195, Draft 2, with the contents
to Amend: of Comm. 911.6 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Richards, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Inaba— 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 195, Draft 2, with
the contents of Comm. 911.7. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Council Members
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. This particular communication puts forward a
grammatical clarification within the ordinance. So Section 3, where we talk about
the definition of an "Integrated preparedness plan," ensuring that there is a period
there to end the sentence.
The next section related to the head of Civil Defense Agency and the
Administrator,just having a grammatical edition of the word "who" in there. And
then finally, within the ordinance, the different scope and function of Civil
Defense,just clarification around monitoring "any and all threats, emergencies, or
disasters that pose a risk to the lives and safety of residents," and it being Civil
Defense's function to do that, as well as advise the Mayor "on proposed solutions
for how best to protect people and property from danger."
We had some of those words kind of combined in the earlier draft, and this
provides a bit more clarification on exactly what we are looking for Civil Defense
to do in this situation. Thank you.
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ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz.
Council Members? Okay, seeing none. I have a question. I'll just run a scenario.
So, we have a disaster. The Mayor, according to this communication, is the head
of the Civil Defense Agency. And then the Administrator, right now that would
be you, Mr. Magno, correct? You'll be responsible for administrative function of
the agency and getting information back to the Mayor. But the Mayor is the
ultimate decision maker, correct?
MR. MAGNO: Correct.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then, this is kind of a
simple question, sorry. But I'm thinking about sixth grade. Who and whom?
Does it need to be whom or who? Doesn't matter. Okay, leave it right there then.
Okay, that was my questions. Thank you. Okay, Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: This is reviewed by Legislative Review Branch. So
mahalo nui, Leslie, for your keen eye on all of this.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, seeing no discussion. We
have the motion on the floor to amend Bill 195, Draft 2, as amended, with the
contents of Communication 911.7. All in favor?
Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 195, Draft 2, with the contents
to Amend: of Comm. 911.7 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Richards, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Inaba— 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Final one, everyone. Thank you.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Bill 195, Draft 2,
with the contents of Comm. 911.8. Seconded by
Ms. Lee Loy.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. This entire subsection of the draft
ordinance was actually taken from State statute. But in having conversations
at the Committee level, it was very evident to all of us here: Civil Defense,
Corp. Counsel, that a bit more clarification was needed around what was meant
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by "suspension of electronic media transmission." I think that could be
interpreted a number of ways, including the suspension of communication, which
is definitely something we are not advocating for or looking to do in times of
crisis and emergency.
And so when we had our discussion and explained that it had to do with actually
physical infrastructure, and ensuring that was up to date and operational, that led
us to providing the clarification here in the amendment. So the proposed
language would now be, "To the extent permitted by or under Federal law, deploy
all resources to ensure electronic media transmission infrastructure is
operational." That way, during times of emergency, the media can do its job in
getting the important and accurate information out there so that members have
everything that they need to making decisions about their household.
Civil Defense, I'm not sure if you want to add any more to this particular
amendment, but I think it does resolve some of the concerns that members of the
public and my constituents had. Thank you, Chair.
MR. MAGNO: I just, you know, agreeing that we are promoting communication,
which is key during any emergency, and so we definitely support this language
change. I think it agrees with the comments that we've received during the
original hearing. Thank you.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Magno. Council
Members, any discussion on the amendment? Mr. Richards, go ahead.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah, thanks Chair. And thanks, Ash, for putting this forth.
Talmadge, we've talked about the communication coming forth. So am I
understanding that this is to re-emphasize getting the communication out?
Because that's been some of the stumbling blocks that we've had. So I guess, I'm
going to look at you, Talmadge, what does this do to help you get the
communication out?
MR. MAGNO: Well, it definitely supports it in the law, but down to the ground
level, the specifics, if there's need for emergency, I guess, procurement to get
communications up, whether it's radio stations or our systems, I think this
facilitates that process.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Because we're establishing a framework, but then the
actual application will come—how we craft that,whether it become Director's
rules. Or is that what the expectation is? Because one of the criticism that we
have with our communication, the emergency communication, coming out of the
County, is we are slow at it, getting that information out. So how does this tell the
community, tell the public, that we're going to ramp that up? How is this
supporting it. And I'm looking at you too, Ash.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Right. So, I just want to be explicitly clear. This language
has nothing to do with what you're talking about, the pace that which Civil
Defense turns out information. It has to do with infrastructure, making sure the
towers or whatever communication systems are place, to get that message out.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. So yeah, that's where I'm going. Because people
listening, this puts the framework out there, so we have the ability.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes, the physical infrastructure.
MR. RICHARDS: Physical infrastructure.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: The operational stuff, like the warning point, that's a
discussion at budget time.
MR. RICHARDS: Yeah.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes.
MR. MAGNO: And you're right as far as those are all built in the plans, as far as
what you're getting at.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. And I acknowledge that we actually have to have the
physical infrastructure before we can communicate, but then the follow-up to that
is then having the process to get that communication out rapidly. Okay, thanks. I
yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Richards.
Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah. Talmadge, what we had in this provision before, "suspend
electronic media transmission," and what we have now, "deploy all resources to
ensure electronic media transmission infrastructure is operational" it's kind of like
two different things. One is a limiting power and the other one is just something
that allows you to do what you're actually supposed to be doing, right, deploying
all resources. So what was the reason for suspending electronic media
transmission to begin with? Was there a problem that you guys were
encountering during some of our disasters that we should be cognizant of and
addressing? I don't want to have a watered-down version, I want you guys to
really be able to do your job, that's all. And if you got to suspend, you got to
suspend, even if it sounds bad. But what was the reason why we had "suspend
electronic media transmission"to begin with?
MR. MAGNO: Well, you cited previous events, and we did have events where
miscommunication had gone out; but to clarify those events, we chose to put out
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our own information. I guess that previous wording would have allowed us to
stop communication.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah.
MR. MAGNO: But in lieu of that, we chose this new language to identify that we
support putting information out.
MR. CHUNG: Oh, completely different then, approach?
MR. MAGNO: Yeah.
MR. CHUNG: I just want to make sure eh, you know, that what we're voting on
is what you're wanting to do.
MR. PERIATT: If I may? The original language, "suspend communications."
That's HRS 127A. That's verbatim, from the Hawaii Revised Statutes.
MR. CHUNG: 127?
MR. PERIATT: Alpha.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, "A"right?
MR. PERIATT: Yeah.
MR. CHUNG: Okay.
MR. PERIATT: Yeah, so that's why that language was originally in there.
MR. CHUNG: The "suspend"was in there.
MR. PERIATT: The suspend. And in talking the Hawaii Emergency
Management Agency was the shepherd for 127A. That was their bill. It defines
their organization, and the organizations in the County, as well. Talking with
them about the reasoning for the wording, it was actually what we have in here
now. They didn't—the intent wasn't to suspend the communications. The intent
was to be able to provide communications.
MR. CHUNG: Okay.
MR. PERIATT: Provide the ability or the communications to happen.
MR. CHUNG: So this one, the new language, better reflects what you want?
MR. MAGNO AND MR. PERIATT: (Both gentlemen nodded their heads yes).
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MR. CHUNG: Okay. Anyway, I wanted to thank Ashley for integrating all of
the concerns that we heard during the last time, you know, from the testifiers, and
putting them all into these different amendments. Thank you That's all I have.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung.
Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. And I'll ditto what Council Member Chung said,
thank you for being so amendable to all the suggestions we put forth. I'm actually
thinking that this one is still not quite there yet. The subsection has to do with
these additional powers that the Mayor has, and so there are things like being able
to suspend laws that impede emergency actions, shutting off water mains, gas
mains, things like that.
When it was explained to us in the previous Committee hearing about what needs
to happen with respect to electronic media transmission, is that there may be a
point at which the Mayor would have to authorize the shut-off, or you know,
quick restart, or something like that. Again, relating to the infrastructure, which
you've identified here, but it's maybe slightly different than putting all resources
towards it. I think it'sI don't have the more appropriate language on the tip of
my tongue, but you're nodding, so I think you're saying—what I'm saying is it's
an additional power that—is it necessary to ensure those communications, but it's
not quite the same as applying resources. The Mayor would always have the
ability, I think, to apply resources through the budget process and whatnot. But
it's more of like a finite-in-time sort of action.
So, I think there's still a little wordsmithing to be done. I'm happy to help with
that, you know, with direct conversation. You know, as far as what your intention
is here, I think it was made clear why an amendment was needed. But I think
there's still a little wordsmithing required to match what the intention was, as I
understood at the last Committee meeting. Thank you, Chair. I yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball.
Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: I just wanted to say that Ms. Kimball actually articulated much
better than I did, you know, my concerns, really. Because to deploy, that's your
job really, yeah, all resources. When that whole section, or subsection or
whatever it was, seems to be things that you could do, or limit, or get control over,
you know, the situation, right? So yeah, thank you.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung.
Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. We certainly want to make sure that we have
the possible legislation that we're going to be voting on. So I'll be withdrawing
this particular communication at this time. Would like my colleagues' support in
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moving this measure to Council, and then working with Ms. Kimball, if you have
ideas, or other Council Members are free to reach out to me with ideas that they
might have to further refine this language.
I want to make sure that we're all really comfortable with what we are putting
here in our Code. Thank you. I'll be withdrawing Communication 911.8.
Withdraw Motion Ms. Kierkiewicz withdrew her motion to amend Bill 195,
to Amend: Draft 2, with the contents of Comm. 911.8.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So Mr. Clerk, we are back
to the main motion, correct? Okay. Council Members, back to the main
motion, forwarding Bill 195, Draft 2 as amended, with the contents of
Communication 911.5, 911.6, and 911.7. Council Members, discussion?
Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Anyway, during our last go-around, there was a question that
came up as to why we needed this ordinance. And whether we had those powers
just by virtue of this Hawaii State Law 127A. When I took a look at it, you
know, we actually need this, and that's why I wanted to credit the maker of this.
And we actually would supposed to have done it in 2014. Yeah, it directed the
counties to enact ordinances in accordance with this State law, 127A, 12 and 13 or
whatever it is, you know, specifying the counties' power. So thank you very
much for moving . But eight years late, that's all right, but at least better late than
never.
The question that I have, though, is you know, we're just so comfortable with
the name Civil Defense Agency, right? Built upon Harry Kim and all those. You
know, it's synonymous with Hawaii County really. But the reason why I know
about this law, and this being enacted in 2014, is ironically one of our Deputy
Corporation CounselsI think Roland Talon is still with you guys, right? Oh,
not there anymore? Oh, Prosecutors? Oh, okay. Well, he was there. Anyway, he
brought it to my attention. I think he might be with the National Guard or
something like that. And way back then he said, "Hey, you know your guys was
supposed to be changing your name,"you know, under the new law to—what is it
called, County Emergency Management Agency.
So I'm just wondering if we can just look at that as being de minimis, and we just
keep on going with Civil Defense Agency. I just wanted to throw that out, that
Roland Talon did bring that up many years ago, when this thing was actually first
enacted. But thank you anyway for
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah. Chair, if I might respond to that?
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Go ahead, Ms. Kierkiewicz.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: It was actually a debate that I had with Civil Defense, in
changing the name of the agency. But we went through line-by-line, every single
line in that particular section of Statute, and we do have the power to name our
agency whatever we want.
MR. CHUNG: Okay.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And so this was something that I was going to allow
Talmadge and Barry folks to have, because you're right, it is so synonymous with
what we know, right?
MR. CHUNG: Right
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: In times of emergencies, you think Civil Defense. And we
certainly don't want to make a name change because it would conflict with the
State agency, which is Hawaii Emergency Management Agency.
MR. CHUNG: And I'm glad that you said that. I wanted to give an opportunity
to address that because I feel the same way. Civil Defense—Hawai`i County,
why change it if we don't have to, right? But anyway, it is in the law. So, okay.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chung.
Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah. Thank you again, Council Woman Kierkiewicz and our
colleagues at the Civil Defense, for all the time that was put into this. Like I said
before, I'm sure it was very much a heavy lift. And I'm happy to support this
moving to Council.
The one other thing that we had talked about at Committee, and I was reminded
about it earlier today when you were talking about Vibrant Hawaii and resilience
hubs, is the capacity of our VOAD (Voluntary Organizations Active in Disaster),
volunteer organizations, and so one of the comments was, you know, maybe
including in the annual reporting information about what active VOAD units we
have in various areas. Is that still something you're willing to consider putting in,
or was there discussion around that?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, if I might? You know, in my conversations with
Civil Defense and Corporation Counsel, we really wanted to avoid getting too
specific in terms of naming agencies, organizations in the Code. They are
mentioned in things like Integrated Preparedness Plan or Comprehensive
Emergency Plan, and so these items are going to be brought forward on an
annual basis with updates from Civil Defense. And it's in that time and space
where they are able to articulate boots on the ground., things were happening at
that community level, and how folks in the community are collaborating with
Civil Defense.
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So I hesitate to move in very specific agency names because there could be a time
and place where they're amended at the federal level. So it just makes sense to be
more general where we can. Thank you. I don't know if you folks want to
elaborate a bit more on the question that Ms. Kimball had raised.
MS. KIMBALL: If I may clarify my ask? I actually agree with you, we don't
want to specify CERT (Community Emergency Response Team) teams, and
Team Rubicon, and things like that. But if there just could be maybe a phrase
there with some of the integrated plan reporting, say "shall include volunteer
organizations," or something like that, so that the annual report that we get clearly
includes that information. That's all I'm asking for. Thank you.
MR. MAGNO: Yeah, I agree definitely having it in our annual reports, which is
something I believe we do already in the County. So we'll just add that with the
language like. Thanks.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Thank
you, Mr. Magno. Council Members? Okay, seeing none. I have one question for
you. I don't know if this needs to be discussed in this bill; it may be build into
Code already. But in the event the Mayor wasn't here, wasn't able to make a
decision, is there a hierarchy that's built into this plan? I mean, it says the Mayor,
but it doesn't say the Mayor or, you know, the next in line, blah, blah, blah.
MS. PERIATT: And the way 127A is written and what we tried to put in here is,
that the Mayor—he's identified 127A as the head of the Emergency Management
Agency, okay; and the Administrative Officer is the one who does the day-to-day
activities and has the delegated authority to make these decisions, should it not be
the Mayor.
And then the County has their own succession process, as well. And so as part to
get, but not get around it but to take into account for all of that, our
Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan calls for a policy group to make
these decisions. There's fixed set of people on the policy group and who makes
the decisions, and the Administrator is one of those persons who sits on the policy
group, as is the Mayor, the Managing Director, Police and Fire Chiefs.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Does there need to be
wording in that section of the bill, the Mayor is the head of the agency unless
unable to make a decision, and therefore there would be someone else in line to
take over as a decision-maker? Because they've really got a head of everything
now, driven by the decisions and what you find in your agency, from what I read
this as, unless I'm wrong. I could be wrong.
MR. PERIATT: It clearly states that the Mayor is the head. But the continuity of
operations plan, that we also need to develop, that's where that delegation of
authority is given.
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ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So not specifically in this
language, but in that plan?
MR. PERIATT: Correct.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Does it need to be, and
I'm looking at Corp. Counsel, does it need to be in this Code to be followed, or
can it be part of a plan that lays outside of this?
(Note: At this time, Deputy Corporation Counsel Dakota Frenz came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. FRENZ: Good morning, Deputy Corporation Counsel Cody Frenz. So to
address your question, I think Barry has already touched on it, right, how the
County has their hierarchy; the Mayor might not be available, it goes on in that
capacity. I think that's what would control in this situation. So I don't think we
need to include anything extra in this particular amendment at this time.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MS. FRENZ: That's my opinion.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Beautiful. Thank you. Thank
you, Mr. Periatt. Appreciate it. Sorry, I just wanted to check in with our lawyers.
Okay, that's all the questions I had. So I don't see any further discussion from the
Council Members. Ms. Kierkiewicz, anything in closing? All good? Okay. So
we have on the floor a motion to forward Bill 195, Draft 2 as amended, to Council
with a favorable recommendation. All in favor?
Vote on Bill 195: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 195, Draft 2,
Draft 3 as amended to Draft 3, on first reading was carried by the
(Approved) following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Kierkiewicz,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Richards, Villegas,
and Acting Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Inaba— 1.
Excused: None.
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