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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PRPSC 2022/10/04 2020-2022 Committee on Parks and Recreation and Public Safety 37th Session Hawai`i County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawai`i October 4, 2022 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Parks and Recreation and Public ORDER: Safety was called to order at 9:00 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Chair Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair (came in later) Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member(came in later) Absent and Excused: Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Item. PUBLIC ON COMM. 176.19: (There were none.) COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 176.19: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION OF THE OCTOBER 2022 HAWEO AWARD TO JACOB NIXON, FIRE COMMUNICATION OFFICER II - HAWAI`I FIRE DEPARTMENT From Council Member Holeka Goro Inaba, dated September 12, 2022. Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 176.19. Seconded by Ms. David. CHR. INABA: Good morning. We have the honor this morning of presenting the October 2022 HAWEO Award to fire `ohana this month, Mr. Jacob Nixon. And f ' PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 I'll call Fire Chief Kazuo Todd forward and the recipient of the award to kind of explain what we're getting the award for today. Chief Todd. CERTIFICATE OF (Note: At this time, the October 2022 Haweo Award was presented APPRECIATION: to Jacob Nixon, Fire Communication Officer II—Hawai`i Fire Department, in recognition of going above and beyond the call of duty. Fire Chief Kazuo Todd came forward and provided statements regarding his exceptional activities in service to the community. Chair Inaba provided a celebratory Hawaiian Chant.) CHR. INABA: Ho`omaikai`i, Mr. Nixon. And with that, there is a motion on the floor to close file on Communication 176.19. All those in favor, please say "aye." Vote on Comm. 176.19: The motion to close file on Comm. 176.19 was carried (Filed) by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, and Chair Inaba—7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Richards and Villegas—2. Excused: None. Recess: At 9:12 a.m., the Chair called for a recess. Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 9:17 a.m. CHR. INABA: Mahalo nui. Calling this meeting back to order. Do we have any testimony for Bill 212, Mr. Clerk? STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Item. PUBLIC ON BILL 212: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Susan Osborne: Bill 212 (Comm. 1003), in support. (representing Kua 0 Ka La Charter School) Toby Hazel: Bill 212 (Comm. 1003); and Comm. 987, in support. Ilihia Gionson: Bill 212 (Comm. 1003), in support. Brandon Bartolome: Bill 212 (Comm. 1003), comment. Page 2 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 George Ikeda: Bill 212 (Comm. 1003), comment. Marlene Sanoria: Bill 212 (Comm. 1003), comment. Frank Degele: Bill 212 (Comm. 1003), comment. Megan Baldado: Bill 212 (Comm. 1003), in support. CHR. INABA: Thank you. Mr. Clerk, Bill 212, please. Bill 212: AMENDS THE PARKS AND RECREATION FACILITY SCHEDULE, CHAPTER 15, ARTICLE 8, SECTION 15-68.1 OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY RENAMING THE PAHOA DISTRICT PARK IN THE PUNA REGION, THE"WILLIAM "BILLY" KENOI PARK," IN HONOR OF WILLIAM "BILLY" PUNAPAIA`ALAIKAHALA KENOI Reference: Comm. 1003 Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to recommend passage of Bill 212 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. INABA: Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Little bit of latitude. All kinds of feels this morning. Such an honor to be able to craft and introduce this ordinance to honor our late Mayor, Billy Kenoi. Thank you, Justin, for asking me to work with you and the `ohana in doing this. I know that so many folks from around the island have talked about naming multiple parks, multiple features after your dad. But it meant a lot that you reached out and wanted to do this with your `ohana. So mahalo nui. You know, Ilihia had really summed it up when he talked about all the investments Billy made in making our island cherry. And that's all he really wanted. This place that he was born and raised in, he just wanted to make sure that everybody could enjoy every single feature, asset of Hawai`i Island. And so he worked hard every single day to make that happen. And what I appreciated most about his leadership was there was always a way. Never, "No can." Always, "How can?" And you make the best use of the time that you had been gifted by the people to serve in these capacities. So that's why he ran them hard. That's why I run them hard. Because I know there's so much work to do and our community deserves the very best. And so I could think of no better way than to honor our late Mayor then by renaming the Pdhoa District Park after him, because he was a Puna boy through and through. Page 3 October 4,2022 PRPSC-37 I really appreciate all the testifiers that came out today. Brandon, Marlene Sanoria, everybody for also sharing and elevating the stories of kupuna that came before Billy that invested in our kids and Puna community. Because you know what?Megan's right, Billy would honor them. And that's exactly what we are going to do. Today is the first step in recognizing the legacy and leadership and contributions of Mayor Kenoi, but we're not going to stop there. We're not going to stop there. We're going to reach out to community, work with folks like Brandon to figure out who are all the folks throughout the ages that dug into their own pocket, found the time, found the resources to make sure kids in Puna get a one chance. Right. They went above and beyond, because that's Hawai`i island style. You take care. So we're going to make sure that we take care and honor all the contributions of those kupuna. I also want to say that one other component of this park naming is on November 9th, which is Billy's heavenly birthday. We are going to be doing an unveiling event at Pahoa District Park. Installation of a monkey pod tree, one pohaku, orchids that were named after him and Takako, really make it special because he died during COVID (Coronavirus Disease) and we never got a chance to really come together and celebrate this really incredible and special man. So the community is invited to that. Register online at www.tinyurl.com/billykenoipark. Everybody's invited. Come. Celebrate. Let's talk story, let's get together. Another piece of this that we're also working on—and mahalo, Justin, for working with me on this, is Billy believed in education being an equalizer. Educate kids and that could change the trajectory of their life and their circumstances of their family for the better. And so we're working in partnership with Pahoa Lava Zone Museum, a 501(c)(3), accepting donations to do academic scholarships for Puna kids in Billy's honor. And we're also raising funds to support athletics for Pahoa kids. A lot of barriers to entry, but this is one small way we can make sure every kid that wants to play baseball, that wants to run track, that wants to play volleyball, that they can, that they have the shoes, the equipment, the uniforms, to go do 'em, right? Because that was Billy's style, "Get `em done." So my colleagues, I'm humbly asking for your support in renaming Pahoa District Park after our beloved Mayor Kenoi. And before I yield the floor, I wanted to call up Justin, who flew in all the way from Honolulu to join us today to just share some mana`o from the Kenoi `Ohana. (Note: At this time, Justin Kenoi came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KENOI: Aloha, everyone. My name is Justin Kenoi, and I am beyond humbled to come before you all today. First and foremost, I wanted to just thank all of you and especially Council Member Kierkiewicz for everything she's done. And without her, you know,just all the brilliant planning and thought that went in Page 4 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 this has just been phenomenal. And without Council Member Kierkiewicz this probably wouldn't have been possible. So thank you again. I also wanted to thank the many hands that went into actually making the park itself, the planning, the construction,the maintaining. Because as we all know it takes a community rat things. So I wanted to uthank everyone accomplish great just for that. Dad used to say that parks are just a place to play. You know, as Ashley mentioned, it's a pu'uhonua. And from what he said they allow us to grow, to dream, and to be safe. These are places where kids and families can come together, away from crime, away from violence, and to not only enjoy and be active, but to learn these values like respect,teamwork and sportsmanship. And as we all know it's no secret that dad was,you know,born and raised in Kalapana. That's his trademark. But Puna will always be his home. He recognized early on that Puna was historically one of the more neglected districts on the island. And he wanted to make a point to allow the kids to have something that they can be proud of in that area. And now Pahoa has one of the nicest recreational facilities in the state. He wanted them to know that, sorry—but this park being named after dad goes beyond his name as someone who loved his hometown. But it's his story that will be remembered, that wherever you are from you can do anything you put your heart to. Mahalo. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Justin. And I also know that our Parks Director Maurice Messina is on Zoom. Mo, if you wanted to just kind of talk story a little bit about our work together to rename the park after Mayor Kenoi, but also some of the work that we're going to be taking up to do a while of honor for the various folks that have contributed to Puna sports. Mo, are you on? (Note: At this time, Parks and Recreation Director Maurice Messina came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. MESSINA: Yes. Thank you, Ashley. Aloha, Council Members,testifiers, Howard's `ohana and also Billy's `ohana. Thank you. Unfortunately, I'm a little under the weather today so I can't be there in person. But,you know, this has been talked about since I came in office about a little over a year and a half ago. And this has been brought up since I came into office. And from the beginning, you know, we understood the support behind this. Ms. Kierkiewicz came and had a talk with Mayor Roth and I. It was evident that, you know, Justin and the Kenoi Family were behind this naming. And so that was kind of a last step in making sure we move this forward. You know, for the Sanoria family,you know, we do have things in place to honor those people who made a big difference in our recreation facilities. Not just our recreation directors and technicians, but also our maintenance folks who sometimes have spent an entire 30 years taking care of Parks in one single district. Page 5 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 And so what I'll do is maybe we'll set up a meeting with you folks and figure out a way to honor Howard in the right way. But Parks and Rec is dedicated to this new naming. Once this passes today,we'll begin making the sign, and we'll be set to go for the November 9th, renaming ceremony. And our department looks forward to this endeavor. Aloha. ThankY ou. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Mahalo nui, Mo. Thanks for embodying Billy's, you know, values and leadership of, you know,just get 'em done. Council Members, again,just looking for your support for a man that has given so much of himself to Hawai`i Island. Clearly, we're still impacted by his leadership. So just looking for everybody's support on this renaming. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. INABA: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. For the record, Mr. Richards has been with us for a little while now. And with that I'll open it up to any others in the committee. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo, Chair. And mahalo, Ms. Kierkiewicz, for bringing this bill forward. Couldn't be more fitting in honor of Billy. And mahalo to all of our testifiers today who everyone here has supported the renaming of the park for Uncle Billy. So I'll be supporting this today. I'm glad to hear that we're going to be supporting some of the testifiers like Mr. Bartolome, who brought up history that was before my time. And I had a minute to speak to Mr. Bartolome about what happened, and who's grandpa it was, and who else was involved in uplifting the community in Pahoa, and recognizing them, I think, would really be an honor of what Billy would want, but also just recognizes everyone in our community who's done so much without being asked. Just like our Fire Department representative today. So I'm glad to hear that you're willing to take that on and make that happen. And it's good to hear Mr. Messina from Parks and Rec take the same objective away from this meeting. So really supportive of this. And again, mahalo to the family members here today, both Sanoria, Ikeda, and the late Mr. Kenoi's family. So just on a personal note, a long, long time ago I had a run-in with Billy in the water,positive run-in, in Honoli`i. And he was such an amazing man. And he did have a way of just getting things done, which in government is so hard to do sometimes. But he just did it. And our park in Pahoa is a shining example of him just getting things done for the community. So great job overall. I'll be supporting this today. Mahalo. Mahalo, Chair. CHR. INABA: Mahalo. Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Yeah, absolutely in support of this and really appreciate Ms. Kierkiewicz for bringing this forward and maybe even floating out there that this be named more of a regional park or a complex. Because what we heard today, there are a number of pillars in community who gave so much for Pahoa. But I have to take the opportunity, because we do this all the time on the Page 6 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 Council. When you read the Bill, one part of the bill, Billy's high school. But I'm going to yield. And actually, if I could, Chair, call up a very dear friend of Billy forward. Actually, there are two of them here today,Neil Azevedo and Jesse Ebersole. Y 9 And I just wanted to give them the opportunity to share what it was like during— and they're shaking their heads because they no like, but Billy would say, "No tell us how no can, tell us how can." But they were there when Puna, we faced lava- 1, (Hurricane) Iselle, and lava-2. And they stood shoulder to shoulder with Billy during this time. And gentlemen, if you don't mind, please come forward and tell us a little bit about Billy's tenacity and how he really did pull the community together. Thank you,Neil and Jesse. And if you guys don't mind starting with what high school you guys graduated from. That's always, always, a good place to start. (Note: At this time, Jesse Ebersole and Neil Azevedo came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. EBERSOLE: I dreamt about him last night not realizing that I would be here. He comes up probably at least once a week or so. Billy was amazing. He was a role model to many. He was an inspiration to many of us. You know, growing up with Billy, being friends with him since, you know, we were 14-15 years old, it was the ride of a lifetime, and you know, memories I'll cherish forever. And in spirit of Ironman week and being fortunate to have trained with him, you know,to take him out on our first mile that we ran in training for Ironman, which was probably at like a 20-minute pace, he was short of breath. I've got to imagine that Billy had cancer,you know, when he started the Ironman process, and despite the struggles of gaining his endurance, and running government, and training, he did it. And as busy as he was, he missed very few training sessions. There was one time where he had to put in a long run. It was 18-miles and there were maybe 3-4 weeks before Ironman and all day I was bugging him that, you know, we needed to get it done. And so finally at about eight at night, we started from his house in Volcano, and we ran to Hilo,you know, with flashlights. Karen picked us up in Pana`ewa, and we got it done. Watching him,you know, on race day and being there following him, running with him, cheering him on, and with, I don't know, about maybe an hour to go before time expired on the race, Takako and I, and the family, we're on the side of the road watching him go by. Takako was calculating the time that was left and his pace and she said,you know, there was absolutely no way for him to finish. And then he went into Keahole and then Justin, you know, around us, he was hearing that, and he jumped on a moped and caught up with him. He—I don't know what he did, but they picked up the pace. I'm positive Billy did not jump on that moped. And with minutes to spare, Billy crossed that finish line. And just Page 7 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 to see the pride of accomplishment in his eyes and emotion, it was a moment I'll never forget. I along with all of his friends and family and all of you folks who worked with him were blessed to share our time with Billy. Thank you, Sue, for putting us on the spot and for giving us this opportunity. And thank you, Ashley, for honoring Billy. I know how honored he would feel by what you initiated with Justin and what all of you guys have done for him. Thank you. MR. AZEVEDO: Aloha, everyone. Neil Azevedo. Waiakea High, '87 grad. Me and braddah Julio, you know, I knew Billy since I was five years old. I call him Julio because we had Spanish class together in high school. He passed, I failed. But I was Pedro and he was Julio. You know, from five years old to now, you know, it's unreal how everything feels. We played football together from small- , kid time under Harry Kim. And this is, I mean, I love the family so much, beautiful family. I came in the County in 2015. I was working at Isemoto before that. And he told me, I got hired, and ended up at the Ho`olulu Complex. That was a big one with Billy. He asked me—actually we had the engineers in there, Warren Lee, Brandon, was all in there. He asked them how we can pave this. So he turned around—anyway I don't want to talk anymore about that. But he asked me how much it would cost and what would be the tonnage and stuff and how long it would take. So I just gave him everything. Then we said, "When can you get it done?" I said first we need the topo (topographic) for the grounds. This will figure out the water and stuff making sure we're safe with everything here. And from there, you know, now everybody enjoys it. Everybody enjoys the park. Handicapped people can go fairs, everybody. But one thing with Billy,he's not only from Pahoa, he's a whole island. He did it in Waimea, he did Ka`u, you know, he spread himself thin around the whole island, but with a lot of heart. And he didn't stop. Whenever he asked something, you know, we find a way, we get it done. It's not how we can. You know, like Jesse said, if he wants to do something, he put his mind to it, he'll get it done. And that's the way we are. You know, as friends we all know each other for a long time. And when we want something, we want to get it done, we're going to get it done. We'll find a way to get it done. And it's an honor, you know, for being his good friend since five years old. I know his whole `ohana and, you know, we are close family friends. Just love that guy so much,you know, him and his family. We'd do anything for them. Just thank you. Ashley, thank you so much for pushing for that. I really appreciate that. You know,there's many more to go. He did so much. Don't let this stop. Let's just keep going. You know,just thank you guys. That's all I got. Thanks. MR. EBERSOLE: Waiakea, '87. Page 8 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, gentlemen. Waiakea, '88. But with that I wholeheartedly support this. I think there will be many opportunities at the groundbreaking or blessing dedication ceremony to really tell these stories and capture them. And just excited, really excited about how this is an example of Billy's legacy. He still continues to bring people together, make them feel things whether it's nervous or excitement, or frustration, he still does it. And I think it speaks volumes to the individual that he was. Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz, for. bringing this forward. And I will support this wholeheartedly. Chair, I yield. CHR. INABA: Thank you. Chair David. MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair Inaba. I was trying to catch my breath listening to everybody's thoughts and sentiments about Billy. I also appreciate the fact that the stories about Uncle Howard, because I know on this islandour li storyis true Y for many of the parks and community centers that we have has a long generational tie to people that have helped bring this kind of facility to life. What I want to say is, when I first met Billy, I just couldn't see how he could have so much energy and love for this place. So my district stems from South Kona into Volcano Village. And I remember not knowing him from Adam but knowing that he was our Mayor. He set a meeting up with me and he goes, "Maile, in your district, what is important and what do you need done?" And I said, "The parks." I mentioned the Honaunau Arena, because for the last 50 years our cowboys were using that arena basically fixing it up with their own dime, bringing in equipment, resurfacing it, putting in fill so the horses won't get hurt. And I just said, well I just want to—I'm out of contingency, but I want to help our cowboys just resurface the arena. And he goes, "Why? Why don't we just do the whole thing?" I went, "What?" And yes, and so that started our partnership. And he was so great. I just imagine, I look back at the groundbreaking ceremony, it just brings tears to my eyes because lots of generational cowboys from Kona could not believe that this was happening. That arena was going to go down, and I wasn't going to let that happen. I was going to try my best. But Billy made it happen. And in Ka`u, the playground, he finished that one up. He has done so much for this island. And I'm not going to repeat what everybody else has said, but he will always have a special place in my heart because of the hearts he touched in my district. So I really want to thank the family. And this would be a great thing to name this park after him. You remind me of Drug Court. When I used to go to Drug Court to give certificates,the stories that they would say were so heartbreaking and inspiring that the judge made it a point to put Kleenex every time we'd come around to give certificates for the hearing for the ceremony. And thank you, Vice Chair Chung.. Thank you, Waiakea. Konawaena thanks you. Page 9 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 Billy was just my impression or my idea of the true spirit of aloha. He just lived it, breathed it, and I'm just so thankful that I had the pleasure of meeting your wonderful dad. And so I'm going to support this. But I really want to honor Uncle Howard Sanoria's `ohana's suggestion. And we have so many parks and when we name a park after one person regardless of who it is, there's other people that, you know, that equally share in the recognition. So I'd love to see the baseball (field)have a big sign that says, Uncle Howards Softball Field or whatever. And I think that should be something that we should think about. And I think the Planning Director was very acceptable to that idea. Because it's not just one park. A park's made up of certain different things. So a tennis court for somebody that was very helpful doing the tennis court. Just some kind of recognition so everybody—it's an equitable kind of community honor. So thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. And I think I'm done. I'm going to yield. And thank you for your indulgence. CHR. INABA: Mahalo. Council Member Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Definitely going to support this and for so many different reasons. First of all, to Mayor Billy, he's the one who encouraged me to go into politics. And so I'm very mindful of that. You spoke about dreaming about Billy last night. His nephew works for me, and we work together every day. And so I think about Billy daily if not more often. To the point about naming the park the complex for Billy, it makes all the sense in the world. In Kohala where I'm from we have Kamehameha Park, but the field we named the Shiro Takata Field because Shiro Takata gave so much to the community and that's what Uncle Howard did as well. And so when I'm listening to the stories about the field,that definitely needs to be named after Howard Sanoria, because that makes all the sense in the world. And that gives it that strength, that mana,that comes from why we are here. And back in the old days when I was in college, I was rowing. I was on a rowing team. And naming of the boats was very important, because it personified our history and that's what we're talking about here now. If you study the names of our complexes of our playing fields, you learn the history of our county and who we are. And so I fully support this. I also fully support naming the ball field after Uncle Howard, because that is who our history is,that is where we come from. And that also says something about the community recognizing its history as we go forward. So fully in support of this. And I think putting together the contingency from Puna, naming that playing field would be the next step. So again thank you very much. We can all spend hours giving Billy stories. But anyway, definitely a good direction. Thanks, Chair. I yield. CHR. INABA: Thank you. Vice Chair Chung. Page 10 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 MR. CHUNG: Thank you. Relley, I might have to go little bit over five minutes, okay? And it's not as a tribute to Billy or anything like that, but, you know, I'm going to go off topic too. I've got to speak a little bit about this whole process about naming facilities because that really is the issue at hand. You know, it's too bad, he left already, but sitting back there in orange was our former Councilman Al Smith. I wanted to recognize him. I think he was here for the Sanoria Family if I'm not mistaken. You know, a lot of people were asking me if he was still alive and then now, I know he's alive. Alive and well, he looked real good. I was really happy to see him. And,you know, I'm not too sure if Susie Osborne is around, but I'm looking, I see the `o`o back there so it must be that she's still here. And, you know, for you, Susie, I know you're being real nice about the former Mayor and everything by saying that,you know, Billy was one of the most dynamic, maybe one of the most dynamic mayors in the United Stated, possibly. But for the Big Island, definitely the most dynamic. If not, certainly the most inspirational. And then George Ikeda came up here too, you know, speaking on behalf of the Sanoria Family. You know,just for everyone's information, you know, he's the former district supervisor for P&R(Parks and Recreation). So he's got a long history. I mean,you know, and of course, you know,talking about when he was young, too, and his connection with the Sanoria Family. And then, you know, to see Jesse and Neil. What did Jesse say? "It was a ride of a lifetime." I always bother Jesse,you know. Jesse can confirm. I say, "Jesse, I know you told me this story about 10 times already, but I want to hear 'em again." And I'm not going to repeat,you know, because you guys have got to go and listen to it. The stories about him and Billy, it's like unbelievable. And it's so funny, but, you know, it just shows the character and,you know, the life of Billy. And then Neil. You know,Neil and I had lunch with Billy, right, about four days before he passed. And, you know, had we had known that,you know, the end was soon we wouldn't have bothered him. But it was really special to see him at that time. And Justin,too. Justin, I really believe if you come back to the Big Island,you're going to be the first child of a Mayor to become Mayor. But anyway, you know, with regard to this naming of the facilities—and of course I certainly support this. And Ashley, thank you so much for bringing this forward. You know, as you could tell, you know, you had the Sanoria Family coming up and giving their stories,too, within the context of this measure. And when you look at the history of the Big Island—and, you know, my universe is really East Hawai`i of course. And you,you've got a lot of stuff going on in Kona, too, with a lot of people in the past who have been forgotten already, yeah, because the people who remember them are gone already. But, you know, when you talk about, you know, I just think of what my father used to talk about. I may have had a lot of disagreements with him, but when he Page 11 it I PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 would say things about people in the past, you know, I'd always take that to heart. Sanoria was one. I don't know if he knew him well, but I heard the name before. And then of course, you know,you have like the Manliguis brothers. They're deserving of something. Nobu Yamauchi. Jimmy Correa, right. George Yoshida, you know, in a different kind of—not sports. Did I say, George Yoshida, who really developed our Elderly Activities Division? All of these people are deserving of some recognition. But,you know, I go back—I've only made a bill one time to name a facility. And this kind of relates to this whole Sanoria thing. You know, somebody who worked tirelessly over many, many years, and that facility was the Aunty Sally IIS Luau Hale. Because up until that time, everybody naming was namg stuff after famous people,you know, most prominent individuals in the community. But this woman had died right after she had retired and she was a person who always worked, you know,just quietly, always seeing people and just saying, "Eh, baby." You know,just really helpful. And this was one for the people who worked behind the scenes and work tirelessly. And that was what that whole thing symbolized. So getting to the Sanoria situation now, and I'm sure I know how Ashley rolls already. She can figure out something. And the first thing that comes to my mind is the Lincoln Park. You have Lincoln Park, but within Lincoln Park you have the Ruth Oda, Dr. Ruth Oda Playground. So all of these things can happen. But this is the last thing really,that I wanted to share though. In 2019, Billy was at a track meet at Kamehameha. He was watching Mahina, his daughter, run her senior year. And so, you know, I was walking and then he texted me and I looked, eh, Billy. So we were talking stories up there at the top of the bleachers. At that time, I had asked him this one question, "Eh, Billy, I like name the Mauna Kea Park after you." Because when you think about it, this is something that I think back before the County took over that park, what kind of park that was. Would anybody want to go use the restroom over there? No way. And when I heard about his idea, I thought to myself,you mean the County is going to take over this thing? Look at it now. And symbolically, really, I thought it would've been wonderful, because I mean, you know, he put a playground there. You know, Billy was a visionary, no question about it. And particularly when it came to youth and parks. But he—symbolically, it was the bridge between East and West Hawai`i. And if you think back at how Hawai`i, Big Island, was before Billy came on board it was fractured. He went there every Tuesday. He brought the island together. So I thought symbolically this would've been wonderful. This is what he told me. "Aaron, leave 'em for the kupuna." Very humbly. And meaning, you know, Gilbert Kahele, after whom this park is now named. You know, at the time I was thinking it can be Kahele, Kenoi, because they were actually the ones instrumental in getting it done. But really, I just remember, "Aaron,leave `em for Page 12 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 the kupuna." And I respected that. Not to say I didn't bother him time and time again about that, but he kept on saying no. So now when this thing came up, I was thinking to myself, this is probably more appropriate. I really want to hand it to you, Ashley, wonderful, wonderful. I mean,you know, for the children, where he's from. And, you know, what Ashley has planned for this celebration, it's going to be out of this world. So of course,I support this wholeheartedly. But I just wanted to give a little bit background on different things in relating to Billy, and then the park, and then the naming of facilities. And, you know, it's never going to end though really, you know. You'll always have people who say, well, what about this person, and what about this person, what about this person? And we just don't have enough facilities to name after really good people. But it's good to remember people who did good stuff for our community. Thank you. CHR. INABA: Thank you, Mr. Chung. And with that then we're at the end of our conversation. I, myself, will be supporting this bill and recognition. Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz, for bringing this forward and Justin, in representing your `ohana so well and your father's legacy. So with that there is a motion on the floor—go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Sorry. Thank you. I just want to mahalo nui everybody for their kind words about Billy, for Neil and Jesse,your impromptu stories, which we really loved. And I would be remised if I didn't mahalo nui Karen Teshima for working alongside me to pull of the November 9th event. Like Aaron said, it's going to be out of this world for sure. And Justin, thank you for taking the time to be here. We know how busy you are, but how important this is to you and your `ohana. And just, I think if we could continue Billy's legacy of, "No scared 'em, go get `em,"right, work hard in everything that you do and aloha everybody all the time with all your might. Thank you everyone for your support. Chair, I yield. CHR. INABA: Thank you. Motion on the floor is to forward Bill 212 to Council with a favorable recommendation, all those in favor please say "aye." Page 13 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 Vote on Bill 212: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 212 on first (Approved) reading was carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Richards, and Chair Inaba—8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Villegas— 1. Excused: None. CHR. INABA: With that then we will continue with public testimony for either item soRelley. can take it Y away STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Margaret Kearns: Comm. 987, comment. Lauren Foo: Comm. 987, comment. (representing Hawai`i (see Comm. 987.13) Island Pets Alive) Lori Johnson: Comm. 987, comment. (representing Hawai`i (see Comm. 987.24) Island Pets Alive) Janice "Loke"Keihanaiku Comm. 987, comment. kauakahihuliheekahaunaele- Keanaaina: Henry (Hank) Silva Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), in support. Sylvia Dolena: Comm. 987, comment. (representing Aloha Animal Advocats) Susan Bambara: Comm. 987, comment. (see Comm. 987.2) Mary Gary Comm. 987, comment. (see Comm. 987.18) Page 14 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 Ron Johnson Comm. 987, comment. (see Comm. 987.26) Linda Kamahele Comm. 987, comment. Karen Clark Comm. 987, comment. (see Comm. 987.5) Pamela Moore Comm. 987, in support. (representing Kea'au (see Comm. 987.30) Transfer Station) Manuel Antonio Comm. 987, comment, Cory Harden Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), in support. Tina Bounds Comm. 987, comment. Dwight Vicente Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), comment. Stanley Mendes Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), in opposition. Brian Ley Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), in opposition. Todd Yukutake Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), comment. (see Comm. 1022.71) Rhonda Kiblinger Comm. 987, comment. Reiko Sugura Comm. 987, comment. Pastor Dion Maeda Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), comment. Linda Brooks Comm. 987, comment. Bunnie Harrington Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), in opposition. (see Comm. 1022.28) STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Item. PUBLIC ON COMM 987: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Jeanne Wheeler: Comm. 987, comment. Page 15 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 Yvonne Betts: Comm. 987, comment. (see Comm. 987.4) COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 987: REQUESTS A DISCUSSION WITH THE HAWAII POLICE DEPARTMENT REGARDING ANIMNAL CONTROL SERVICES From Council Member Heather Kimball, dated August 25, 2022. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kimball moved to close file on Comm. 987. Seconded by Mr. Richards. CHR. INABA: Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to mahalo and thank everybody for making the time to present today and testify as part of the public hearing. I have received a request from HPD (Hawai`i Police Department) Animal Services that we postpone this to the October 18th Committee Meeting. They have some projects that they are working on that they hope to have more information about for that meeting on the 18th. So at this time I'd like the make a motion to postpone. Vote on Motion Ms. Kimball moved to postpone Comm. 987 to to Postpone: October 18, 2022. Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried (Approved by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Richards and Chair Inaba— 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Villegas— 1. Excused: None. STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Item. PUBLIC ON BILL 220: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Justin Arnold: Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), in opposition. (see Comm. 1022.7) Brian Cabreira: Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), in opposition. Page 16 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 Larry Webber: Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), in opposition. (See Comm. 1022.67) Chad LeBlanc: Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), in opposition. BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Bill 220: AMENDS CHAPTER 14 OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY ADDING A NEW ARTICLE RELATING TO LICENSES TO CARRY CONCEALED OR UNCONCEALED FIREARMS WITHIN THE COUNTY Establishes a new article that includes Sensitive Places where the licensed carrying of a firearm would not be allowed,that the licensed carry of a firearm while intoxicated is prohibited, that upon contact with law enforcement the licensee must notify the enforcement officer of the possession of a licensed firearm and present the license for inspection, and that a license may be revoked by the Chief of Police for one year for any violation of the terms of this new article. Reference: Comm. 1022 Intr. by: Mr. Chung Motion to Approve: Mr. Chung moved to recommend passage of Bill 220 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. INABA: Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, and again, like I did with the Billy Kenoi matter, if I could just have the ringing suspended, because this is going to take a little time. It's not going to take a long time, but I just don't want to be disrupted. Interrupted. First of all, I wanted to really apologize to my colleagues for bringing this thing up. I mean this is really a hot button topic. And you know, we're hitting into the end of the term and,you know, we could do without something like this quite frankly. But nonetheless let me tell you how this all began. Chief(Paul) Ferreira, before he left his position, asked me if I'd be willing to introduce a piece of legislation such as this relating to sensitive places where people would conceal weapons, can or cannot take guns. But I don't know why he asked me. It could be because I'm on my last term. It could be because I'm stupid. I don't know. It could've been for a variety of reasons, but as a fellow Hilo High School Class of'76 person, I felt an obligation to him,too, to advance this. Page 17 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 But before I did though, I checked with Corp. Counsel. I asked them if they had vetted it. They said they had. I spoke with Major Mahuna and then he explained to me what had gone on in developing this. But before I could sign off on it I had to read the Supreme Court decision. The New York, I think it's Gun and Rifle Association versus Bruen, it's an interesting opinion. Let me back up to, you know, I will say this. Maybe another reason why, all joking aside, why Chief Ferreira had approached me on this. I think I've always taken a real balanced view on this whole gun issue. I'm not on either side of the either extreme side of the issue. You know, on the one hand I've always looked at the second amendment and it says the right to bear arms very clear, right? But on the other hand, you know, we are in a pretty tumultuous time in our nation and our world that it makes us have to have a balanced approach to all of this. And so anyway,this Supreme Court opinion really was—you could see—and I really want to stay away from making commentary on this thing. But it became very apparent to me that the people who made the decision, the majority, knew what they wanted to accomplish. And then they framed this thing using a historical perspective to reach that end. And that's fine. Look,they are the final word in terms of the law in the United States and we have to respect that. But what they did or didn't do, which I thought was interesting, is not even adopt or try to use a strict scrutiny standard in assessing this issue. Now strict scrutiny allows for the Supreme Court to look at a law, which on its face infringes upon a constitutional right, for example, freedom of speech, right to bear arms. If a law is counter to that they can still validate that law if they find a compelling state interest. They refuse to do that. Instead, they went this circuitous route looking at history to come up with their decision. I think, even if this amounts to commentary, they didn't take into consideration that there's a vast difference in the way guns are used from revolutionary time to now. Nonetheless, it is the law of the land, and we have to respect that. The last thing I wanted to do here in advancing this measure is to come up with something that flew in the face of the Supreme Court decision. In other words, to circumvent what they came up with via local legislation. That would be wrong and disingenuous on our part. Now let's back up a bit here. This was a Supreme Court decision that related specifically to a New York Law. So that's all it is,just a New York Law. But it has impacts on other laws, particularly our state, California, Maryland, maybe Massachusetts, and others that had a discretionary type of licensing procedure when it came to concealed weapons. So it has some kind of broad application to us. Now New York State was mentioned by one of the speakers here, came up with a legislation similar to what we're having here that address sensitive places. But I've got to admit, when I looked at the New York Law it was overly broad. And look, it was their law, their state, that was embroiled in this Supreme Court Page 18 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 decision. So it was their reaction to now go back and try to legislatively overturn what the Supreme Court had done. That's wrong. So now we get to ours—and by the way, we have Honolulu City and County who's also advancing something, and I've looked at their bill. I would say theirs is more expansive than ours as well. Now in this Bruen decision,the justices, well the majority opinion, specifically stated that there are sensitive places where you can prohibit the carrying of concealed weapons or carrying guns. The two places that they mention in passing in that decision were government buildings and schools. Historically, it's alreadystated in that decision that they validated that. Whether it's right, whether it's wrong, whether we want to adopt what they said,that's for us to decide, because there was a good point brought up by both Pastor Dion Maeda and then others regarding schools. If you know you cannot carry a gun legally in a church and people are shooting in churches, it makes them fair game, right? There are no checks and balances, so I understand that. Schools would be the same. That's something we're going to have to decide. What was prepared, and I didn't prepare this piece of legislation by the way, it came from the Police Department. But I signed off on it. And I signed off on it with the understanding that this was going to begin the discussion whether we expand it more from what was provided here or whittle it down, I'm all ears. Okay. But for sure I know for a fact we can include schools and government buildings. That's given already. Whether we want to do that begs the question. Now I found out from Major Mahuna, because I did ask him, I said, "Hey, Major, who prepared this legislation for you guys? Did you do it?" He said, "No." I found out later it came from Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan. Great piece of legislation incidentally. I mean, whether I agree with it or not, it was well written. And she really took the time, I understand, to research different jurisdictions and to see what places have historically been considered to be sensitive places. I don't know really if they've been upheld at the highest levels of our judicial system. I don't know. But at least she did that research and she incorporated it into this bill. Now there's another component to all of this too. Ultimately, the state legislature is going to take this up. No question in my mind,but they convene in January. So for all intents and purposes we're just looking at tiding the public over from whenever this gets passed, if it does get passed and whatever form it may get passed in, to sometime in January or February. Because that's where all the action is going to occur, at the legislature. They're probably going to come up with something that will address, you know, the entire state. And there is a severability clause built into this piece of legislation so that if this piece of legislation, if passes, is contrary to what's either in federal law or state law, then it's no good. Page 19 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 You know, Mr. Fujitake from Honolulu I think, mentioned something about the New York piece of legislation being subject of litigation. Correct. The reason for that is, as I stated, when you look at the piece of legislation it was meant to really circumvent the Supreme Court decision. I don't think we should do that, and I would certainly urge everyone here not to do that. That's not our intent. But at the same time given the new law that's handed down by the Supreme Court, I think it would behoove us to at least examine the issue. And I think regardless of what side of the argument you're on, I think both sides would appreciate the fact that we're trying to deal with it. And hopefully we'll come up with a piece of legislation that, you know, I can't say it's going to satisfy everybody, but that looks to be somewhat legal in view of the Bruen decision and yet balances the public safety interest. You know, there's one thing that,you know, there's some kind of presumption that whoever gets one of these licenses will only use it for self-protection. I think that's the wrong assumption. I really do. You know, after that decision there might become a proliferation of gun licenses or concealed weapon licenses and it may become problematic. And it's going to change the culture of what we have in Hawai`i. I don't know if it's going to make it better or if it's going to make it worse. I really don't know. But this is an issue that needs to be examined so I'm happy to introduce it in that—I was happy to introduce it in that regard. But I just want to assure everyone that we're not trying to do something that is overly restrictive. Now I'm going to reference— CHR. INABA: Mr. Chung, if you can wrap it up so we can have discussion. MR. CHUNG: Okay. Well as I said— CHR. INABA: When you can. MR. CHUNG: This is a complicated issue, and I'm not going to take too much longer though. I do have an amendment, which I'll talk about later. But we have actually three amendments that have been presented. One by me, which is Communication. 1022.1, I think is the first one, right? That's out. Just forget that one. That's a mistake. Communication 1022.2 is the correct one, and the Communication 1022.3 is what was suggested by the Police Department, in consultation with Corporation Counsel. Just wanted to let you know. But now, go ahead, I'll yield the floor. CHR. INABA: Okay. You want to just have general discussion first before we take amendments up? And at this time, before I open it up to the Committee, I'd like to invite up anyone from HPD and Corporation Counsel's Office to share any thoughts before we have further deliberation on the matter. We have with us today Acting Chief Bugado and Major Mahuna. Page 20 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 (Note: At this time, Acting Police Chief Kenneth Bugado, Major Reed Mahuna, and Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan came forward to address the members of the Committee.) ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Good morning, Council Members. And I want to say thank to Council Member Chung for agreeing to introduce this bill, which was championed by retired Chief Paul Ferreira. Good morning and with me here today is Major Reed Mahuna, Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan and Assistant Chief Andrew Burian. On July 7th, 2022, the State of Hawaii Department of Attorney General, in Opinion 2202,provided a formal legal opinion clarifying the requirements to attain licenses to carry firearms,under Hawai`i's current statutory reign, following the recent U.S. Supreme Court ruling in New York State Rifle and Pistol Association vs. Bruen. In that opinion,the Attorney General opined that the chiefs of police may no longer constitutionally restrict both concealed and unconcealed carry license to only those who demonstrate a special need. Opinion 2202 states that language in HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes) 134-9(a), that an applicant in an exceptional case show reason to fear injury to the applicant's personal property to obtain a concealed carry license no longer can be enforced. That opinion necessitates that the chief of police reassess and amend the current policies regarding issuance of licenses to carry concealed or unconcealed firearms. As a consequence of this there are now a lot more people eligible to apply for a license to carry a firearm that otherwise were not eligible under HRS 134-9. As the statutes in Hawai`i currently stand,there are no laws limiting where the license firearms can be carried in light of the widely regarded sensitive places in community. We felt it became necessary to pass an ordinance informing the public where those sensitive places have been recognized that a firearm is not allowed. The U.S. Supreme Court recognized in Bruen that states could regulate the carry of firearms in sensitive places. The modern regulations of prohibiting public carrying in sensitive places would need to be similar to historical public precursors. The sensitive places within the ordinance that you have before you today have been based on historical research of laws throughout the United States and is based on federal case law. Moreover, there's a risk that officers in the public face with the presence of additional firearms in public. In response to this, I would like the Council to consider two additional measures to ensure safety in the public. The first one, that a person granted the license to carry a firearm shall not carry while intoxicated. And secondly, that a person granted a license to carry a firearm and has their firearm on them, be required upon contact by law enforcement to inform the officer of the presence of the gun and present their issued license to carry firearm. Once again, thank you for introducing this bill and we can begin the discussion. Page 21 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 CHR. INABA: Thank you, Chief Bugado. Any statements from Corporation Counsel at this time? MS. WAN: Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan. Thank you very much, Council, for taking up this measure and considering it with due care. I did work very closely with Chief Ferreira in drafting this legislation. I also did considerable research as far as historical legislation within the United States as well as Hawai`i, to ensure that these sensitive places that are outlined within the ordinance are analogous to those historically present. The idea of drafting this ordinance was to draft it in concert with Bruen, not against it. The idea was not to work around the Supreme Court case but rather to legislate within the opening that that particular case had provided, which was to solidify for the community what are we, as a community, consider sensitive places. Every single portion and every single bullet point that you see within this ordinance has an analogous statute historically within the United States. Historically within the State of Hawai`i, we have historically been a state that has prohibited the carrying of firearms in most places. With this change from the United States Supreme Court, that opens it up to more places than the State of Hawai`i would otherwise be culturally accustomed to. Therefore, this particular ordinance is trying to dance that fine line between what is customary within Hawaii and what is required and allowed and customary within the United States. Thank you very much for considering this legislation. CHR. INABA: Mahalo. Opening it up now to the Committee. Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. You know, earlier today we had a lot of conversations and, you know, we make references to our high school,but I think that's what makes us really unique here is our relationship. And I'll couch this with, our family has a healthy, healthy respect for guns. My husband is a retired Police Officer. My son is a State Champion in air riflery. So we understand the caution and care that's given to guns and weapons in general. Jumping off where Council Member Chung left us was definitely, you know,this idea of working in concert with our Supreme Court ruling and it's been a long time since I've picked up a Supreme Court decision, and in this case at a federal level. So thank you, Mr. Chung, for really pushing me to really dig in on this particular issue. And what I do like about his particular legislation, as he mentioned, was this jumping off point where we could have a conversation,just like that healthy respect that we have for our firearms. What I do like about thisarticular legislation—he did mention the severability g clause, but we also have a supremacy clause in this that I'd actually want to highlight, that as Mr. Chung mentioned, if and when the legislature takes action on this matter some of this will fall away. And we've heard a lot about setting Page 22 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 ceilings and floors in other policies that we do and that's why I really, really do like this jumping off point that we have in front of us. With understanding that we haven't moved in this amendment, I do have a couple of questions for Major Mahuna. If it's okay with you, if I call you Reed, it's just because we've known each other for a while. And although they haven't been introduced, I had a question around our officers who have specific pay around them being ready for duty all the time. And I wanted to understand or have some clarification if any one of these amendments has taken into consideration that extra pay that they have in relationship to them. MR. MAHUNA: Yes. So one of the amendments that we're going to put forward is that one exemption to this law would be Law Enforcement Officers. And they would be bound by the policies within their respective agency. I think that in looking at the bill the way it is, some language contained within the bill would be in conflict with those policies. So one of the amendments that we have put forward is to take that into consideration, that Law Enforcement Officers do have a duty to act whether they're on duty or off-duty should they see a crime occurring. And I think that the Chief put forward an amendment that takes that into consideration. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Major. You know, I heard a lot of testimony today. You know,there's ways to strengthen this. I think that is one step, that we're examining it from all angles and knowing that our Police Officers, you know, carrying out their duties, not only on the clock but off the clock, is actually covered in one of these amendments and would be supporting that particular amendment. I think earlier today we had conversations, especially from Pastor Dion about religious spaces. And I wanted to hear from Corporation Counsel. You mentioned that some of the analysis about these sensitive places that were being advanced took into consideration—or what we have in front of us,there was an analysis there. And I just wanted to understand how that particular, which is number four, any church or religious assembly was elevated as a sensitive place. MS. WAN: Thank you again. Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan. As for sensitive places and regarding churches,there has been legislation honoring the sanctity of churches and the fact that they have been considered sensitive places, and that firearms should not be held within churches going back all the way to the 1700s and the 1800s most consistently. They have been wrapped up along with places of education, voting centers, places of demonstration and the like, as well as government buildings. And if, Councilman, if you would like I can provide a detail of those different statutes historically that have honored and recognized churches and religious assemblies as sensitive places, because there have been several. Page 23 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. That would actually be helpful. I think in a previous life working in law offices I understand the importance of definitions. Definitions, definitions, definitions. And I think because these particular places have been qualified as a sensitive place, I think the definitions would be incredibly helpful in our decision-making process as we kind of move through this policy and its steps going forward. With that I'll be yielding to hear from the rest of my colleagues about this particular piece of legislation. Chair, I yield. CHR. INABA: Thank you. Mr. Kdneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for bringing this forward, Mr. Chung. I do appreciate it. And mahalo for the Police Department being here today as well as all our testifiers who presented what they see as far as what this bill does and doesn't do. I'm going to go back a little bit and kind of touch on things that I need to understand before I can say yes or no to this bill. What is the timeframe currently to grant a concealed, non-concealed, open-carry, concealed-carry weapon for a permit for someone? You know, as long as they're passing all the tests and requirements, what is the timeframe? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Applicants should expect at least about 30 days for the processing of those applications. MR. KANEALI'I-KLEINFELDER: Thirty days from the time that they submit to when they get granted the ability to conceal carry? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Yes. About thirty days. • MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And then requirements, what are the requirements that they have to go through? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: They have to submit an application. First of all, they have to provide a permit for a legally acquired handgun. They submit the applications to the Police Department. The application will include waivers to have background checks done, mental health history checks done, proficiency tests,the score of the proficiency test,the certified instructor that conducted the test,the certification of the instructor that conducted the proficiency test. And once all of that is processed by our firearms section, to ensure that the applicant is qualified, I review the entire packet prior to giving my approval for issuance. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And all that happens within 30 days? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Yes. We try to get it done within 30 days. MR. KANEALI'I-KLEINFELDER: That's a lot. That's a tall order of business it sounds like to get done in 30 days. Okay, okay, 30 days. What's the difference Page 24 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 between open concealed carry—I'm just saying, it's in this bill, it looks like either one is acceptable because it's talking about both, correct? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Actually, what happened with the ruling is it eliminated—it removed the exceptional cause that was required to obtain a concealed carry firearm. But it still exists for an unconcealed carry firearm. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. What is the ratio of officers to residents here in our county right now? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: The ratio of officers—actually I'd have to get back to you on that. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. What I do know is in my district we have about eight to ten officers per shift in an area the size of O`ahu. And the reason I'm going along this route is we also have a nationwide shortage of officers. And we have a shortage of officers in our own county. It's hard to get folks to come into the Police Department right now. I've seen that in our recruit classes going from 30 to nine from the start to the finish. I'm saying this because we're looking at a bill that does two things, allows people to protect themselves but also revokes where they can be with a concealed carry. If there was a strong enough police presence in my mind, I can logically say I know someone will be there to protect me. But right now, my line of questioning is pushing towards do we have someone there to protect everybody, an area the size of O`ahu with 10 officers? We fought for two more positions in our district in 2018. It's been hard to get those numbers, but regardless, that's a huge area. Imagine Oahu trying to protect itself with eight officers, 10 officers per shift. That's incredibly difficult. So I appreciate this coming up because this is controversial. In my lifetime I've never faced an instance where I needed a weapon on me to protect myself Maybe I'm just lucky. Maybe it just happened that way. But I'm not everybody. And I would think about Ms. Harrington's comments and her testimony (see Comm. 1022.28) and I would want her to have a weapon on her to protect herself I am concerned that the list of places in this bill is almost every place you can go. There's not a lot left besides with your own personal vehicle. I'm trying to think of areas that this bill allows you to have concealed carry and it's very limited. It would be very limited. I like what you said earlier about having to not be able to carry a firearm while intoxicated. That makes complete sense to me. And informing a law enforcement officer of having a weapon on you if it's concealed carry and presenting your license, because I want to make sure that you folks are protected. But on the other end, I want to make sure that the community can. protect itself I'm really on the fence about this bill, honestly. Page 25 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 On the ray end of all of that what is the charge right now for carrying a concealed weapon? Nothing else. You get pulled over, you have a concealed weapon, you don't have a license to have a concealed weapon. What happens to that individual? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: They'll be charged with place to keep firearm. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Is it a fine? Is it jail time? Is it a misdemeanor, felony? What is it? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Place to keep firearm is a felony. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's a felony charge. Place to keep— ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And as a felony charge, if someone was convicted what would happen to them? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: They'd be facing jail time. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: How much? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Up to two years. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Two years' time. ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Five years. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Five years' time. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for answering my questions. Chair, I yield. CHR. INABA: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Council Member Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. I think this is a good conversation to have, but it is difficult. I think it was brought up, we were talking about definitions being very important as we go forward. And one of the things is, we're talking about constitutionality, and I absolutely support our constitution. In fact, when we took office, we swore to uphold our constitution. So I'm very sensitive to that. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder brings up some interesting questions. I am concerned about the long list of sensitive areas. But that's why, again, this is the only way we can have this conversation governed by our Sunshine Laws. So this is the place to have it. Page 26 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 I don't know if this is a right question to ask at this point. maybe it's something we can talk about, but when you talk about having proof of your permit, you have to have a card. In this high-tech age, we also take photos of our vaccine cards and all. Is that something that's going to be allowed? And I think we should ask the question, because that's probably going to be asked going forward. More importantly on that, I don't see a definition for private property. And what I'm concerned about is this is the Big Island. We're country, and there's no reference to hunting, there's no reference to private property. I'm coming from the agriculture standpoint. If I'm reading the way this bill is written correctly, cowboys on ranches would be disallowed because people could get onto the ranch, because if it's open for hunting—I don't know if you understand where I'm going with this, but the point is it's very common to have firearms on a ranch and farms for that matter, for taking care of different things. And I'm concerned that this would limit that, or we'd have to do a lot of paperwork, or we'd have to do a lot of posting for that. And I don't think that's the intent of this. So I'm posing the question to you, Chief, am I misunderstanding that? Because for hunting, if we have lands open, and if I read this under open areas,private property, open to the public, well if that's a ranch that's open to hunting, that's open to the public. So thereby, we are now bound by a law—I see some problems with this. I think if you understand where I'm going, I'd like you to address that. ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: If you're talking about a private ranch,this wouldn't apply. MR. RICHARDS: So even though it's open to the public for anything? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: It's up to the property owner if they want to allow. MR. RICHARDS: But then we have to post it. So we get into a posting thing. ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Yeah. MR. RICHARDS: Yeah. I think that's a problem for this, because on the one hand you have a private landowner who's opening it up to the public, inviting them into bird hunt or pig hunt, whatever the case may be. But now we're saddling them with more regulations. I don't think that's the right thing to do. But again, this is the only time we can have this conversation, is in this public forum. So again, Mr. Chung, I do appreciate that. I'm going to yield for now, Chair, because I think there's more talk story we need to have. CHR. INABA: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Before we move on, and I think it's kind of related to what we'll discuss in the amendments here is the—what Page 27 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 Mr. Richards maybe is talking about is the idea of opening a private property not necessarily to the public at any time, but there are opportunities to come and hunt. Is that what you're talking about, Mr. Richards? MR. RICHARDS: Yeah. Chair, if I might respond? Yes. But again, under this, ifyou open upat anytime, then therebyunder this definition, I read it you are p then public. And I can see a lot of ranches that even if they allow access under DLNRDeP artment of Land and Natural Resources) to cross the ranch to go into DLNR hunting areas we have a problem here. CHR. INABA: Thank you. Okay. And before I come back to you, Mr. Chung, I want to give the opportunity to anyone else. Okay. Back to you, Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Yeah. And again,you know, I'm really all ears in terms of how people feel in terms of whittling down this list. But it was good that we started big, right? Because better to start small and then start adding more stuff, right? So I'd like to hear comments in that regard. But in terms of what Mr. Richards just brought u , see,this kind ofgets to the amendment. I'm not goingto talk g P about it specifically, but I'll just generally reference, you know,the concept is that in the bill as drafted by Corporation Counsel, the language as it relates to private property is that,you know, it will not apply to private property where it is conspicuously posted that the public carry of firearms is allowed. Then Ms. Wan explained to me why she said it that way. But in my opinion, and I think it could be applied to other places on this list, I'm going to look to flipping it on its head. Because as written, it assumes or presumes that places you cannot carry guns. I think we have to work on the presumption that you can carry the gun. So what I did in one of my amendments is to say that—I'll just give an example, yeah. Private property open to the public, it's not allowed, but where it is conspicuously posted that the public carry of firearms is not allowed. So in other words, you have to make an affirmative statement that it's not allowed for it not to be allowed. And that could actually be applied to other places on this list. But I would kind of warn against maybe government buildings. But other places—look, we just heard from the religious sector. Kind of surprised me that they would be against the bill, but there might be some places because of their welcoming attitude, that maybe they might want to allow for guns in their presence. But if they don't like it then they just put a sign. So that's the concept. I didn't want to go specifically into my amendment, but, you know, I'd like maybe for us to talk about that a bit. I just want to see how we can really narrow this thing down so that we have a complete bill to move forward, if at all. CHR. INABA: Okay. Well with that then, I think we have two things on the table right now. One is we have a list and we're going to see if we want to cut things out of the list, which then broadens the places that carrying is allowed. Page 28 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 And the other thing is the amendment, which is specific to the private property issue. MR. CHUNG: But it could be expanded. See that last clause about conspicuously posted something that it is not allowed? It could be applied to other places. So we could have a blanket clause relating to some of these other places. CHR. INABA: So being that you introduced this, Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: There's several ways of looking at it. CHR. INABA: I'll maybe ask you if you want to go with the amendment first, and then we go with the list after just so we have some kind of direction to take this by. MR. CHUNG: I sure would like to hear from my colleagues though about how they feel about hospitals, schools, daycare centers, churches, places where people are assembled for an event, bars, restaurants. I kind of want to hear everyone weigh in on these things, what their thoughts are. And then I can kind of figure out how this thing is going and then we can come up with a bill, you know, that we can move forward. CHR. INABA: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Yeah. Thank you, Chair. And to your point, Mr. Chung, I like flipping it like you talked about, going from where you're posting where you can have, you post it where can't have. Because again, coming back to agriculture, we ran into this in trespass. You have to post conspicuously that it's illegal to trespass. And it was like every 50 feet, or whatever it was initially. That was ridiculous because we have miles and miles of fence. So you end up putting up literally thousands of signs, and that's not right. I'm curious about the comment and it was the LEOSA (Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act) Officers. If you go into a restaurant and if you're carrying a firearm, I can see the concern about having a beer or whatever. Okay. But if you're not drinking, should you still be prohibited? And I see an issue with that, because again,theoretically, these are kind of to me like an Air Marshal. You have someone there who's armed, quietly,to protect the public. And so again, it comes back to our administrative rules or how you manage our police force, if they are ready to go,you know, at the drop of a hat. So they're carrying a firearm, but they went to go have lunch or dinner, whatever, but they're just drinking soda or whatever. I think we've got to talk story about that one as well too. So I definitely, completely agree with if somebody is intoxicated they shouldn't have a gun. I got that. But what I'm talking about is if someone just because you're there, it doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't. Page 29 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 So again,this is input, Aaron. We're trying to have this talk story. And I am curious about, you know, again, the sensitive areas like the church's interesting comments. And I'd like to hear more comments about other sensitive areas. I agree we need to have framework around this, but I'm also very sensitive to our second amendment, and we have to put that it's acknowledging and honoring the intent of that. So I yield. CHR. INABA: Okay. So it seems that we're going with the look at the current list approach and see what would be cut out. So if we can kind of go in that direction for the discussion moving forward. Chair David. MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair Inaba. Good discussion. I'm very torn on the intent of this bill considering I can hear and see the people that have testified. They're a very respectable group of people with valid concerns about these restrictions as we see it today and also the constitutional issue. I am one for the constitutional rights of everyone to bear arms. Unfortunately, I think in our society today it's been tested, and I think it's been abused to the detriment and it's affected lives of people because of that. I'm not sure how we, as a legislative body, can put restrictions balancing what the concerns have been on the people that have testified against this. And I totally see why we need to have something that will guarantee the safety of our people. I'm not sure what that is. I have the same concerns as Mr. Richards has regarding private places, and on ranches, and that sort of thing, coming from a family of hunters. But when you go into—my question is enforcement. You know, we have all these restrictions and how do we enforce this? I mean, we can tell people, "You cannot carry,"but unfortunately, we have people in our community that are not respectful. How do we guarantee that when we put out a list like this it solves that problem? Thank you, Mr. Chung, because this is a topic that I know it's due. But for me, I can't really take a position right now because of the things that we've heard today. I understand. I can see both sides. I'm just,not in a place where this list, and I'm thinking that if we whittle it down, maybe it'll be a little bit, in my mind, acceptable in my eyes. But for right now, I think I really am not prepared to vote one way or another on this one. I think,just for me, do we have a copy of that Supreme Court decision? You don't have to look for it now. I'm just saying that I would like to actually take a look at that before the next time this comes on. ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Can I respond to one thing that you just said about the enforcement part of it? MS. DAVID: Sure. Yeah. ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: It would be enforced when we are made aware of an incident. We're not going to be going around checking people to see that they Page 30 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 have a license on them. And if you noticed what the penalties were, it was the revocation for a year of the carry license. MS. DAVID: Okay, thank you. Anyway, I think I'd like to see some whittling down of this and also take some time to look into the Supreme Court decision on this one. So at this point I'm going to yield. I just wanted to express my opinion about what I've heard on both sides of the issue right now. So I yield. MS. DAVID: Thank you. Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Mahalo nui, Chair. Thank you, police, for being here. Chief Bugado, I'm just curious. I'm on your website right now; License to Carry. At the very bottom it talks about, because of the Bruen decision in August some changes were made to the application process. Can you provide a high-level overview on what sort of changes were made? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: We clarified the process for application for a concealed carry permit. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: What exactly is different? Are we requiring more information, additional proficiency tests, what exactly is different in the application process, if anything? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Prior to that we had some rules that were very outdated. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: For example? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: There were no proficiency tests. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: I don't believe that there were. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chief, will you repeat what Corporation Counsel Wan is mentioning to you? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: The major difference that was taken out was what I explained earlier, was the exceptional cause, exceptional reason, to— MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Demonstrating the specific need. ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Demonstrating. Yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That is at the discretion of the Chief of Police. Page 31 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: That is correct. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And I believe we were one of six states,New York,New Jersey, Massachusetts, California, right, that had that? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Yeah. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Have there been situations where the Chief did deny a license to carry? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: In the past? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yeah. ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Are you able to share why? I mean, I see this on your website, individuals that,you know, don't qualify. ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Every application—well since—if you're talking since August 24th,there has not been any that has been denied yet. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: But prior to that. ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Prior to that,there has been licenses that have been denied, applications that have been denied. There was no exceptional reason that was demonstrated. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Because I think that was at play with Bruen, where the applicant noted, "I want to be able to carry, because I don't feel safe in my neighborhood." ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Right. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Right. But they didn't demonstrate that anything in particular happened to them, so they were automatically denied. ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, great. If I were forced to vote on this particular measure today, I would be opposed to what's written here. I think the list of sensitive places is a major overreach in terms of what the Supreme Court had prescribed. They mentioned four sites as sensitive places. Courts, government chambers, schools and polling places. I don't see any latitude for localities to identify places beyond that. I'm not a lawyer, certainly not a lawyer, but that is m just readingof the law. Y Page 32 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 I don't own guns, but I know family members and friends who do, and I know that they all see this as a very massive kuleana and are very careful, very responsible, act in a safe way. My stepdad is a firearms instructor, has trained a number of folks in county parks, DLNR, up at the national park. So my family and I, my cousins, we're going to go through firearms trainings. You know why? There had been so many situations here on the island where there have been firearms, and something went wrong. And I want to be in a position to know how to act responsibly and in an aware manner. I think what's really dangerous is to put firearms in the hands of an individual without going through that rigorous process of permitting, licensing,the training, the proficiency test. I want folks like Bunnie, right, to be able to protect herself so awful things do not happen to her, so she's able to protect herself and those around her. I want to be able to act sensibly and educated if I'm ever around a firearm. And,you know, my colleague Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder pointed out we've got eight officers in Puna. It's the wild west out there. I know you guys work really, really hard on the response times, but you guys are stretched super thin and it's much more comforting when folks are able to have these tools to protect themselves and their property. I cannot support this language as prescribed today. I do want to urge that Council Member Chung or others, Corporation Counsel, Police, work in partnership with a number of the testifiers that have provided really great testimony. I'm looking at Michael Elliot's, I'll point out my stepdads, James O'Keefe. I mean these folks have provided, I think, some innovative solutions for us to consider to further refine what's in front of us here today. I also worry about the lack of uniformity across the state in each county developing its own ordinance. You know, kudos, Council Member Chung, for bringing this forward so we can have the important conversation, but I think it's going to take a lot of work for us to get something that we can all kind of sit behind. And I do hope the legislature makes it a priority to provide some uniformity across the state in terms of,you know, what—anyway, that's my mana`o on the issue. I don't think today's conversation is a one and done. I think this is the start of numerous conversations. I really appreciate the dialog that we're having today. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Council Member Chung. I'm sure that the selection of you to present this forward had nothing to do with you being stupid. In fact, I think it had to do with your tremendous knowledge and your ability to explain to the rest of us how the law works, how to interpret the Supreme Court decision and explain in a very clear way what is intended. So I appreciate you tremendously for putting this together. And you know, the other part of it, too, is you're on your last term and you're not facing another election. This is certainly one of those hot button issues that could influence the outcome of Page 33 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 an election. There are very few policy positions that I am willing to stand on the hill and say, "I'm going to go for this regardless." And this is one. I think we are accepting a narrative here that the only mechanism for self-defense for your personal protection is to have a firearm on your person. I fundamentally disagree with that. I also mentioned the laws that we have in the state, some of the strictest in the country with respect to firearms. We also have one of the lowest rates of firearm related deaths. I think this is right on the money, Council Member Chung, and I thank you for putting it forward. I think that this is an important protection for our community, and I appreciate my colleagues' positions and their comments on this. But I am happy with the wording in this in full. I certainly understand one of these editorial suggestions, but even the suggestion that you have to affirmatively permit it on your property. I support that as well. Whether it's through conspicuous signage or some sort of other indication to the Police Department that you will permit it on your property, I think that is something that would for discussion. But since you've requested our input, I'm in full support of the legislation as written. I thank the Police Department and the Deputy Corporation Counsel for putting this forward. Mahalo. CHR. INABA: Mahalo. Council Member Chung. MR. CHUNG: Yeah. So actually, Chief Ferreira should've asked Council Member Kimball to introduce this. Because you know, even for me, I'm certainly down and kind of massage it a bit. And, you know,to whittle this o I understand, I mean, we're really hampering people who have gotten a license legally, right? That's problematic. But at the same time, because of the Supreme Court decision it's going to make it easier to get licenses. We've got to understand that. That's why there is—I'm not saying it's a fallacy, you know, what was brought up by both Ms. Kierkiewicz and Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder about, you know,there being a dearth of police officers in areas particularly in the Puna District and that's why, you know,this, this, and this. But that situation is remaining the same. The only thing that is changed is that it's going to be easier toget licenses that enables people to conceal. That's the only variable that's p p going to change in this equation. That's why we have to take a look at it. But at the same time, look, I certainly understand, you know,people who have talked about the schools. Look, if there's no deterrent for a person to come in with an assault weapon into a school and thinking that there's no person in there with a gun, maybe that's why we have all of these, you know, gun violence in schools. And I would hate to be the person who championed a piece of legislation that included schools and then we have something at a school, right? But we've got to really use our heads on this. And this is how I'm thinking here, and bear in mind now the Supreme Court already said it's okay to have schools and government buildings. That's a given. Understood already. It's all these Page 34 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 other things. But I'm willing to kind of look at—I'd like to keep hospitals in there, government buildings, and that would also include airports already. So you could say government buildings and facilities. Then for the private places, I already told you what I would prefer to see, private places open to the public where it is conspicuously posted that the public carry of firearms is not allowed. And that would cover bars, because I mean, like if there's a gunfight in a bar it's likely—it's not a safe thing for people to be carrying guns in a bar. I don't care licensed or what. But,you know, I'd be willing to back off on that and, you know, keep it within the category of private places open to the public, because it is a private place open to the public. I really think we have to keep schools in there, but for churches,places where people are assembled for an event, I think those could also be similar to private places open to the public where you have conspicuous posting that it's not allowed. You know, all I want to hear is, look, if you guys are in favor of this thing. I already know you have one no vote, you know, on this thing as written. I don't know about Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Ms. Kimball has already said she'd vote for this thing, you know, as written. I don't know if she's going to continue supporting it if it's whittled down. I don't know. I just want to know if you guys just tell me what you guys want and what can be passed or defeated so that we don't have to belabor this point already. That's all. Just give me clear directions and I'll draft up something that you guys all can agree on. That's all. Because we're already into our next meeting, and you know, we are, as I said, looking at some kind of deadline because we want to get something done, if at all, between now and the time that the legislature weighs in on this thing. So just tell me,tell me what you guys want. CHR. INABA: Okay. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Bugado, how many permits for concealed carries have occurred since this opened? CHR. INABA: If you can turn your mic on,please. ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: We have received 30 so far. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thirty permits. And how many of those have been allowed? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: We haven't issued any yet. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Zero. ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: I expect to issue some very soon. Page 35 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Like a week, two weeks? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: About a week. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Out of that 30,you know, what are you expecting to release as far as approved? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: I'd say at least six. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: For concealed carry? ACTING CHIEF BUGADO: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. Well, he's not here anymore. I'll make my comment. The places that—I mean, we're talking about concealed carry. We are talking about the public protecting itself and not allowing criminals to commit crimes. And it's all a little bit questionable because we really can't quantify, it's hard to quantify all of this solidly. I've seen reports go back and forth. Does it sway crime? Does it increase crime? And it kind of was all over the place. What I can say is I have kids in school. I'm in government. And I've had thoughts to someone walks in the door and someone tries to shoot us. What are we going to do? You guys aren't here. We have a Security Officer somewhere, I don't know. If my kids were in school and someone comes in to shoot up the school, God forbid that ever happens here in Hawai`i, I would hope there's someone there to protect them. There's not a school security officer at every school. Even if there was, would they be ready to respond? I don't know. I want to ensure that someone in our community who has gone through this permitting process to get themselves a concealed carry weapon, open-carry or concealed carry, can be there to protect whoever needs to be protected. And that is my thought. So this bill, the way it's written, like I said, it's pretty much everywhere in this county. I mean, I'm trying to think of a place where you can, where it says you can have it. You go through the permitting process, you can have it in your vehicle. You can't, I mean, government buildings, et cetera, places where people are assembled for an event, parks,playgrounds where children gather, private property open to the public. I'd be questioning where can you have a concealed carry if this bill was to pass as written? CHR. INABA: Corporation Counsel, if you can. MS. WAN: Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan. Just to address Council p � Y Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder's question. I just wanted to note, when it comes to places assembled for an event, it requires the issuance of a permit. So the vast Page 36 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 majority of places that people would assemble for an event, it would be allowed. So places that are out in the community that are otherwise, on the sidewalks, out in our parks, anywhere that's out in the wide-open air, as long as that assembly does not require the issuance of a permit, it would otherwise be allowed. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I would agree with you, but what about a park? MS. WAN: So right now, it is not contemplating a park. But there is a concern about daycare centers,playgrounds, and where children are. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Number 3; daycare centers, playgrounds, parks, and or places where children gather. MS. WAN: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I mean, if you take this word for word this could just go anywhere. I mean I could say there's children in the park over there, on that side over there hanging out,then this would apply? MS. WAN: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I mean you could really play with the wording here and it becomes anything, anywhere in the county. And again, I'm only saying this—like Mr. Chung said, we don't want to belabor the point. We want to have a good discussion and be pau and move this either ahead or kill it. MS. WAN: I completely understand. I just wanted to just clarify that point about number six. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. MS. WAN: Thank you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So, Mr. Chung,you missed it, but I'm just saying—okay, I'm going to say it again. If the point is to let people protect themselves, and I preface that with there's really open, kind of vague discussion about whether this does or does not decrease-increase crime as far as I've seen, then I'd be more open to having as many places able to have concealed carry than lesser. So slimming down this list would be more in line with what I'd be willing to support. Thank you. MR. CHUNG: I just asked if he has any suggestions. CHR. INABA: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Page 37 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: My suggestions would be to limit down this list. MR. CHUNG: I mean, specifically. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I would like to go through it give you a kind of a crossed-out list and really think about this, because this is important. I'd rather not just,you know,blurt out what I think right now and give you a more solid set of suggestions. MR. CHUNG: I mean, I see Ms. Kimball, but— CHR. INABA: Go ahead, Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: I'm just going to ask to have this thing deferred. CHR. INABA: Yeah, and that's what I'm going to suggest as well. Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah. I would just like to respond to Council Member Chung's request. I'm going to support what can get the votes with the minimum protection in the places covered. I'm not going to hold out for exactly this if that's not going to make it through this body. I do want everyone to carefully consider the difference between personal protection and vigilantism. The idea that we have Law Enforcement Officers, Private Security Officers,that can have a weapon in these places, I want you to reflect on the places where we have had mass shootings in schools and what not, where there have been people on campus with firearms that did not prevent anything, heavens. And I want you to reflect on some of the accidents, particularly the ones that have happened recently in our own countyby people that were licensed and approved to carry firearms and yet did not properly follow the rules that they are supposed to follow. So again,just a lot to reflect on here. Appreciate Mr. Chung for bringing this forward, and I just ask everyone to be judicious in terms of what they're going to require to have cut before this is passed. Thank you. CHR. INABA: Alright. So I'm going to chime in real quick and I'll keep it short just to say that I agree with Council Member Kierkiewicz in narrowing it down to some of the areas that she mentioned. With the Sunshine Law and us not being able to all talk to Council Member Chung, might be useful for Corporation Counsel and our police folks to work with us, because I'm sure there's nine different variations of where this bill might go based on who's sitting here on the Council. But with that I want to mahalo all the testifiers who came out to share their mana`o to guide how this Council should move forward with this bill if at all. Mr. Chung, are we looking to postpone to October 18, 2022? MR. CHUNG: Yes, please. Page 38 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 Motion to Postpone: Mr. Chung moved to postpone Bill 220 to October 18, 2022. Seconded by Ms. David. CHR. INABA: Any discussion to postpone to the October 18th, Committee meeting? MR. CHUNG: And I'll try to come up with something. I cannot guarantee it's going to be palatable to everybody or anybody, but I'll try to come up with something,you know,to incorporate what was said. I hope the public really understands that, you know, this Council always tries to keep an open mind about things. And we value what the public says based on my experience and I've seen that from all of my colleagues. So let's just see what happens, okay? It might not be a good thing that comes up, but I'll spend the next two weeks trying to do something. Alright. CHR. INABA: Good luck, Mr. Chung. And to the rest of the Council, if you folks want to take a stab at it as well, please do. Ms. Lee Loy, on the postponement. MS. LEE LOY: Yes, on the postponement and food for thought. However,those sensitive places evolve, I would love to see incorporated within the bill the amendment contained in Section 3, especially as it relates to all law enforcement officers acting in accordance with the department's policy, because I just don't want what already is a conflict contained within the first iteration of this bill. I clarifies that and thenprovides the claritythat our department needs. I think this p yield. CHR. INABA: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Last comment before we take the vote. Mr. Chung, I do support the contents of Comm. 1022.2, if that helps you at all. Okay, with that then, there is a motion on the floor to postpone Bill 220 to the October 18, 2022, Committee meetings, all those in favor say "aye." Vote on Motion to The motion to postpone Bill 220 to October 18, 2022,was Postpone: carried by the following voice vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Richards, and Chair Inaba— 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Villegas— 1. Excused: None. I; II Page 39 PRPSC-37 October 4,2022 ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 1:12 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn MENT: the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Richards and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Richards, and Chair Inaba— 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Villegas— 1. Excused: None. CHR. INABA: This meeting is adjourned at 1:12 p.m. Mahalo. Approved: Mr. oleka Goro Inaba, Chair (Date) Parks and Recreation and Public Safety Committee HI/tk Page 40