HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PC 2022/10/18 2020-2022 Committee on Planning
32nd Session
West Hawai`i Civic Center
74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A
Kailua-Kona, Hawai`i
October 18, 2022
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Planning was called to order at 2:33 p.m.,
ORDER: in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Vice Chair
Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member (came in later)
Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member (came in later)
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member (came in later)
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individual registered to speak and came forward when
called by the Chair:
Dwight Vicente: Res. 576-22 (Comm. 1037);
Bill 204 (Comm. 952), and
Bill 222 (Comm. 1031),'comment.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Clerk, if we could please start with Order of
Resolutions.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Order
RESOLUTIONS: of Resolutions.
PC-32 October 18,2022
Res. 576-22: ACCEPTS A GRANT OF PUBLIC ACCESS AND PRESERVATION
EASEMENT FROM KULEANA SPIRITS, INC., TAX MAP KEY: 5-5-006:010
(Area: 43.854 Acres)
Provides for the preservation of pedestrian and vehicular public access along the
makai property boundary to align with the historic Ho`ea Road in North Kohala.
Reference: Comm. 1037
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz (B/R)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend adoption of Res. 576-22.
Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Seeing that this is a request from the Planning
Department, if their representative could please come forward and give the
Council a high-level overview of what's being requested. Pretty self-explanatory,
but just for the record. Aloha Corporation Counsel.
(Note: At this time, Deputy Corporation Counsel Jean Campbell came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. CAMPBELL: Good afternoon everybody. As Ashley mentioned, Jean
Campbell, Deputy Corporation Counsel, representing the Planning Department,
and really here sort of only, not in my legal capacity,just on behalf of the
Planning Department. Not because there's legal concerns with this easement, but
because the Long-Range Planner that worked on this with me is no longer with
the County, and so I'm sort of the only person around to give you sort of the big
picture background. And as Council Member Kierkiewicz mentioned, the
resolution, I think, probably gives you everything that you mostly need to know.
This public access easement is across a property that is adjacent to Upolu Airport
Road, which its makai boundary is the Upolu Airport itself. The requirement for
public access easement is the result of a 2002 settlement agreement with the
previous owner, and the access easement was expanded a little bit from public
access to also include a preservation element in 2018 together with an SMA
(Special Management Area) use permit approval that was granted for the
property. And so, the provision of the access easement is a satisfaction of a
condition for that SMA approval.
It does provide a pedestrian and vehicular public access easement along the makai
boundary of the property, and also includes Historic Preservation requirements
that were in compliance with a SHPD (State Historic Preservation Division)
preservation plan. And I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have.
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Campbell. Council Members any
questions or comments on the resolution before us? Seeing none, thank you,
Ms. Campbell for the overview. Glad that we're finally able to get this over the
finish line. With that said, all those in favor please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 576-22: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 576-22,
(Approved) was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Richards — 1.
Excused: None.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Motion carries. Resolution 576-22 moves forward to the
Council with a positive recommendation. Thank you. Mr. Clerk, if we could
move on to Bills for Ordinances, I would like to start with Bill 222.
Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the
of Business: following item was taken out of order:
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
Bill 222: AMENDS SECTION 25-8-19 (NORTH HILO ZONE MAP), ARTICLE 8,
CHAPTER 25 (ZONING) OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016
EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY CHANGING THE DISTRICT CLASSIFICATION
FROM AGRICULTURAL—20 ACRES (A-20a) TO FAMILY AGRICULTURAL—
ONE ACRE (FA-la) AT `O`OKALA, NORTH HILO, HAWAII, COVERED BY
TAX MAP KEYS: 3-9-001:023, AND 031
(Applicant: Leonard Cardoza Trust) (Area: 15.404 Acres)
The Windward Planning Commission forwards its favorable recommendation for
this change of zone request, which would allow the applicant to apply to subdivide
the property into seven lots. The property is located to the north(makai) of
Mamalahoa Highway, approximately 270 feet east of its intersection with Milo
Street, Portion of Humu`ula and `O`6kala, in North Hilo.
Reference: Comm. 1031
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz (B/R)
and
Comm. 1031.1: From Planning Director Zendo Kern, dated September 26, 2022, transmitting the
transcripts from the Windward Planning Commission's September 1, 2022, meeting.
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PC-32 October 18,2022
Motion to Approve: Mr. Lee Loy moved to recommend passage of Bill 222 on
first reading. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: If I could please call up the applicant and/or their
representative? Thank you, gentlemen for joining us. If you could please
introduce yourselves for the record and provide an overview of the request that
Council Members will deliberate on today? And I believe we have Planning
Director Zendo Kern available from the Planning Department in Hilo Chambers.
Okay, thank you. Gentlemen, you have the floor.
(Note: At this time, Planning Consultants Daryn Arai and Sidney Fuke,
and the applicant Leonard Cardoza came forward to address the members
of the Committee.)
MR. ARAI: Good afternoon, Chair Kierkiewicz and members of the Committee.
My name is Daryn Arai, I reside in Hilo. I'm here assisting the applicant
Leonard Cardoza, who's sitting to my right; also,joining us today is Sidney Fuke
who's appearing in the Hilo Chambers. And he's here also assessing me in
particular.
In a nutshell, this change of zone request of 15 acres from Ag-22 (FA-la) (Family
Agricultural), in support of a seven-lot subdivision, is consistent with the General
Plan, as well as the Hamakua Community Development Plan, which identify
these lands for low-density urban uses. This is particularly right for this type of
use if you look at the layout of the property, which first and foremost was used as
a service yard for the nearby `O`okala Sugar Mill.
So if you look at the aerial photo, there's a series of Cane Hall Roads that
crisscross the property. And those very roads can be used to service the proposed
lots in this subdivision. But what was really interesting, it's always good to come
to Kona to appear before you in person, but it also gives us the opportunity the
applicant and I, to talk story on the way out. And what I didn't realize was the
mauka portion of this property along the Old Mamalahoa Highway was the
former site of the Machida Camp, and that consists of 20 plantation homes.
So not only is this proposed request consistent with the land use policies and plans
for this particular area, it is also historically appropriate. So with that, we hope
that you find this change of zone request, at least it's a favorable
recommendation, likewise. So we stand ready to answer any questions that you
may have.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Arai. Opening it up for questions and
comments from my colleagues. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
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PC-32 October 18,2022
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. I have one. Mr. Arai,
you said this is 15 acres, but it's listed as 14.968. That is really close to being 15,
but at 15, it kicks into State decision-making, correct?
MR. ARAI: That is not correct. That would be correct if the proposed request
required a State land-use boundary. I'm sorry, the echoing is throwing me off.
Sorry. But, where was I? If the rezoning required a State land-use boundary
amendment to the urban district, then yes, the 15 acres is the cut off. But this
FA-la zoning is consistent with the agricultural designation of these lands. So,
it's just a change of zone today.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you for the correction.
Appreciate it. I yield, Chair.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. Hello, nice to see you Daryn, and
Mr. Cardoza, nice to see you again. I'll just weigh in on this because it is in my
district and to orient folks. This was, I don't know if you remember,just a couple
short weeks ago, there was a fire in `0`6kala. This is the same general area. In
fact it melted the notice sign. I went by and checked it out.
I was reflecting on this last night as I was, you know, preparing for today. That
had that lot been subdivided and had people living on it and manicuring the lawn
and taking care of it, it wouldn't have been open field ready to burn. Like it did,
which really, you know, caused a lot of anxiety for a lot of the area residents.
As stated, it is in alignment with the General Plan. It is in alignment with the
CDP (Community Development Plan), and it's in alignment with historical usage
for the area.
I think any more than the seven proposed lots, you know, might be a little bit
more concerning. But, I think it's a reasonable use of the area and since it's
constrained by that water. And the layout of the roads as it is, I think it makes
sense.
We did get some testimony about any requirements for upgrades to the internal
streets. While I do fully support complete streets, I've said this before, it
wouldn't actually suit the character of the neighborhood on those internal streets
to have curbs, gutter, sidewalk development. It's a more rural area, and there
isn't—we're not talking about, you know, major thoroughfares or anything like
that. So you know, I think that given recommendations are appropriate. So,
thank you, Chair. I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Anyone else? Mr. Inaba.
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MR. INABA: Thank you. Quick question on the fair share. How do you folks
what is the funding mechanism for that? How do you intend to pay for the fair
share?
MR. ARAI: I'm sorry, could you repeat that?
MR. INABA: How does the applicant intend to pay the fair share contributions?
Is there funds prepared to pay that?
MR. ARAI: During the subdivision process, prior to the issuance of final
subdivision approval, the applicant must make their obligatory fair share
contributions. There is an affordable housing requirement attached to the
proposed conditions, and the applicant will be required to satisfy those. The fair
share contributions may not apply to those lots that will be set aside to satisfy the
applicant's affordable housing obligations.
MR. INABA: The applicant does have funds prepared to pay for the fair share
contributions that are not a part of the affordable housing lots? Is that correct?
MR. ARAI: I would say, yes he does, but maybe you should get it directly from
him.
MR. CARDOZA: Yes, I do.
MR. INABA: And could you introduce yourself, please?
MR. CARDOZA: Leonard Cardoza. I'm the owner of the property.
MR. INABA: Thank you. And when do you intend to get final subdivision
approval?
MR. CARDOZA: That's what we're working on right now, I believe.
MR. ARAI: The applicant does have a surveyor in mind that he has used in the
past, and should he be successful on securing this change of zone, then he will
immediately retain the services of that surveyor and proceed with the preparation
of a subdivision application. The proposed conditions does require a completion
within five years, if I remember correctly, and he intends to accomplish that
within that time period.
MR. INABA: Thank you, Mr. Arai that was the question. Chair, I yield.
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PC-32 October 18,2022
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Anyone else? Okay, seeing none,
there is a motion on the floor to forward Bill 222 to the Council with a favorable
recommendation. All in favor please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 222: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 222 on first
(Approved) reading was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Motion carries. Gentlemen, we will see you in two
weeks for first reading.
MR. ARAI: Thank you so much. Much appreciated everyone.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks for being here. Mr. Clerk, let's go back to
Bill 204.
Return to Order The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business.
of Business:
Bill 204: AMENDS SECTION 25-8-3 (NORTH KONA ZONE MAP), ARTICLE 8,
CHAPTER 25 (ZONING) OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016
EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY CHANGING THE DISTRICT CLASSIFICATION
FROM AGRICULTURAL—FIVE ACRES (A-5a) TO FAMILY AGRICULTURAL
—ONE ACRE(FA-la) AT KAILUA-KONA, NORTH KONA, HAWAII,
COVERED BY TAX MAP KEY: 7-5-017:043
(Applicant: Siting Chen) (Area: 14.968 Acres)
The Leeward Planning Commission forwards its favorable recommendation for this
change of zone request, which would allow the applicant to apply for a subdivision of
the parcel into 11 lots of at least one acre. The property is located on the south side
of Hualalai Road, approximately 0.6 miles east of its intersection with Queen
Ka`ahumanu Highway, Wai`aha 1st, Puapua`anui 1st in North Kona.
Reference: Comm. 952
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz (B/R)
Postponed: September 6, 2022
(Note: There is a motion by Ms. Lee Loy, seconded by Ms. David, to recommend
passage of Bill 204 on first reading.)
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and
Comm. 952.1: From Planning Director Zendo Kern, dated August 24, 2022, transmitting the
transcripts from the Leeward Planning Commission's July 21, 2022, meeting.
; and
Comm. 952.2 From Deputy Planning Director Jeffrey W. Darrow, dated August 25, 2022,
transmitting a response letter dated June 13, 2022, from Land Planning Hawaii Inc.
(Note: Communications 952.4, 952.5, and 952.6, transmitting proposed
amendments to Bill 204, were circulated.)
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. If I could please call forward the
applicant and/or their representative? There's already a motion on the floor. We
had heard this one month ago, and there was a lot of questions, concern, and
comments that were raised by this body. So wanted to put a pin in it for about a
month so that the applicant and their representative could talk story with their
representative from the district. And so, that's where we are today.
If you could please introduce yourselves for the record? Let's start there and
provide an overview of your meeting with Council Member Villegas and how we
may proceed. There are several communications that folks, if you take a look at
your pinkie folder, I'm introducing on behalf of the applicant, so we can have a
broader discussion on that later. Mr. Pipan, you have the floor.
(Note: At this time, Planning Consultant John Pipan came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MR. PIPAN: Very good. Good afternoon, thank you Committee Chair
Kierkiewicz. Thank you Council Members for having us. Last month, we
discussed this at good detail and good length, but we'll provide an overview. And
thanks very much to Council Member Villegas for making time for us in your
busy schedule to hash out some of the issues that were brought up at our last
meeting.
This property was previously proposed as an RS-10 (Residential Single-Family)
and then an RS-15 development. They got very far in the rezoning process, and it
stopped at the Council. They couldn't come to terms on the infrastructure that
was required, and that's kind of a recurring thing here. Infrastructure, it's very
important here.
So we see a couple alternatives for the property playing out. It was attempted to
get higher density residential zoning. Forty-some odd units would have been
possible with that zoning. It failed. We see the alternative of status quo right now
in Ag-5 zoning. Not much in the way of productive agriculture or housing has
been accomplished on that property. So, we're left with kind of a
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middle-of-the-road Goldilocks, not too dense, not too sparse, FA-1 a, Family Ag,
one-acre zoning.
So, we're envisioning, you know, up to 11 farm dwellings on this lot. Eleven
properties, 11 families growing their food, you know, going to Farmer's markets
potentially a very low-density, low-impact development. Fits in with the zoning
that exists to the north and mauka, Ag-la, because Ag-1 is not necessarily
allowed in zoning anymore. It's going to be Family Ag-la.
We went back and we looked at the concerns that were brought up at Committee
last time, the potential impacts to Hualalai Road, connection to the sewer,
Ag-tourism. We saw all of these as kind of related. And it's a tough bullet to bite
and a tough pill to swallow, but we do think that we can do dry sewers in the
subdivision to help ease those concerns about septic systems.
Also, we're proposing deed restrictions on agricultural tourism to prohibit that on
the resulting lots and short-term rentals. So there wouldn't be any short-term
vacation rentals, bed and breakfasts, lodges; anything of the like. And we think
that serves to limit the impacts to area infrastructure. Hualalai Road is a little
challenged, not up to standard. We see this as fitting in. It fits in with the
General Plan, although we've got this line that cuts through. It can be interpreted
a lot of different ways.
And we hashed this out at the Planning Commission. They saw it as being
appropriate, agreeing with the Planning Department's recommendation. We think
this is low-density, low-impact, and it provides that much needed boost to housing
of all types in the area. So with that, be happy to answer any questions you might
have. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Pipan. Council Members, questions or
comments. Ms. Kimball. Ms. Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Sure. Thank you gentlemen, for meeting with me yesterday
and taking the time to take into consideration the different concerns that were
raised the last time we heard this here in Committee. And I mean, should we
continue talking about the project as a whole, or go ahead and bring in the
amendments?
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: For Committee to talk about the amendments, I can take
them up one by one.
MS. VILLEGAS: Sure, because I was going to talk about them, but let's bring
them in first, and then we'll talk about it.
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Let's start with the first one. May I have a motion to
amend Bill 204 with the contents of Communication 952.4? And that has to do
with the restrictions.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Villegas moved to amend Bill 204 with the contents
of Comm. 952.4. Seconded by Ms. Kimball.
MS. VILLEGAS: Fantastic, thank you. I just had a quick question for Corp.
Counsel. Being a novice as far as deed restrictions, I just want to make sure that
this is legal and viable. In reading through the notes from the Leeward Planning
Commission's meeting, there were conversations about this neighborhood or
subdivision not having any CC&R's (Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions).
So, is this deed restriction then, Judge Strance, that legal way to forego to apply
this restriction without having CC&R's is, I suppose, what I'm asking for.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: We're just noting for the record, we have Deputy
Planning Director Jeff Darrow joining us via Zoom. Aloha, Jeff.
(Note: At this time, Deputy Planning Director Jeff Darrow came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. DARROW: Aloha, Everyone.
MS. VILLEGAS: Aloha, Jeff.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. STRANCE: Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. I do know that it's
legal to require deed restrictions as part of the conditions, but I'm not quite sure
what the general practice has been with the Planning Department and with what's
being proposed now.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, great. Mr. Darrow, can you comment please?
MR. DARROW: Sure. Aloha, Deputy Director with the Planning Department.
Normally we do allow deed restrictions as conditions in our change of zone
applications. Namely, we've limited down to—in the agricultural district to
prohibit CPR's (Condominium Property Regimes) as well as limit increased
density, such as `ohana or additional dwellings.
In this particular case, looking at Communication 952.4, there's two requested
deed restrictions, one having to do with ag-tourism and the other having to do
with short-term vacation rental. The short-term vacation rental, I don't think is an
issue with CC&R's. I do think we might run into an issue with the ag-tourism
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based on Section 205-4.6 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes. That section talks
about private restrictions on agricultural uses and activities. It says that you
cannot restrict in any private agreement, any use that is permitted within the State
Land Use Ag district under Sections 205-2(d), and 205-4.5, Subsection (a).
In this particular case, under 205, we have ag-tourism as a permitted use within
the counties that have created an ordinance. Hawaii County has created an
ordinance for ag-tourism, so it is considered a permitted use in the State Land Use
and County Ag district.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Mr. Darrow. So where does that leave us with this
particular amendment?
MR. DARROW: In this particular case, legally I don't think it's appropriate to
restrict ag-tourism on these properties, but just from a practical standpoint,
normally we don't see applications from ag-tourism come before the Planning
Department on one-acre lots. We normally see them in conjunction with larger
farms that have the capability of bringing in tourism to tour their larger farming
activities. I'm not saying it cannot happen, but normally we're seeing bigger
farming operations that are utilizing the ag-tourism use in our County.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, so in the interest of the legality for an amendment,
would it make sense then for this amendment to be amended to remove the
ag-tourism portion?
MR. DARROW: I would suggest that.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. So do we want to go ahead and withdraw this
amendment and then bring it back? And I'm wondering whose responsibility it is
to change this amendment? Does that fall to Mr. Pipan, and then we bring that
back forward through you?
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: So these amendments were provided by the applicant.
My office had processed them as Planning Committee Chair. And walking in
knowing the conflict with HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes), still wanted to put this
forward so that we could have the discussion. It was something that was
mentioned in Committee as being a potential concern, and so, wanting to make
sure that we just have the discussion. Let's see, who made the motion to put this
forward? That would be you, Ms. Villegas, so I'd like to give everybody the
opportunity to just weigh in before I ask you to withdraw the motion on this
amendment. Thank you. Mr. Inaba, you have the floor.
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MR. INABA: Thank you. Thank you, Jeff, for the explanation on legal matters.
Corporation Counsel, can we get a formal opinion on what that's just been shared
by Deputy Director Darrow?
MS. STRANCE: Elizabeth Strance. I'd like to get something to you. I know in
the past, we've provided some background information to you regarding the law
and spot zoning and things like that. And you know, this would seem to fall
within that broad category and concern we've raised previously, but I'm not
prepared to answer your question directly, but happy to get something to you
before the next Committee or Council meeting. But, my sense after hearing Jeff
talk, would be that falls within that concern within the district.
MR. INABA: Sorry, falls in what?
MS. STRANCE: So, there's sometimes a concern about where, you know, you
have spot zoning, and where there's something that's legal in the zoning. Then
there's spots here and there where you cannot do things and you run into possible
legal challenges of taking and depriving properties of economic interests. So,
that's kind of a broad category of concern. And listening to what Jeff had to say,
it seems to fall within that concern that we've raised.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ms. David.
MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair. And Deputy Director, I just wanted a
clarification when you were addressing the proposed amendments in 952.4, deed
restrictions. That"shall prohibit short-term vacation rentals," and we already
talked about the ag-tourism part, but you mentioned restrictions of short-term
vacation rentals in CC&R's. I don't believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that this
subdivision would have CC&R's, no, right?
MR. PIPAN: No plans for CC&R's, no.
MS. DAVID: Okay. So in that sense, Deputy, would a deed restriction for any
lots that were sold and conveyed, would the prohibition in deed, has that been
done before as a condition of subdivision approval? Considering this has no
CC&R's. I see that as two different things, Jeff.
MR. DARROW: Yeah. So, in the language that we're looking at, I apologize,
sometimes I get CC&R's and deed restrictions, you know, interchangeable. But,
our actual ordinance under Condition O, refers to restrictive covenants in the
deeds. And so, when we look at that, basically, it's a restrictive covenant, CC&R.
It's part of a CC&R.
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So they would put this restrictive covenant within the deed, so they'd have to
create it. Normally, they have to create it prior to an action, whether that be
subdivision or plan approval, whatever action it's taking. In this case, it would be
prior to subdivision approval. So, even though they're not planning on making
CC&R's, they would have to do a restrictive covenant that would be placed in the
deeds.
MS. DAVID: In the deeds?
MR. DARROW: Correct. And that's normally where you'll find the restrictive
CC&R's. You get a copy of them when you purchase your property and then
everything comes. So again, it can be the term is being used, restrictive
covenant and it's being placed in the deed. So, it's kind of interchangeable in that
sense. I don't know, we've seen in the past that it's just been very where they
didn't have an association that had, you know, an elaborate set of CC&R's. They
just had lots that they created through the subdivision approval, and within the
deeds, they created a restrictive covenant. So, we've been limited to that.
MS. DAVID: Yeah, I understand the restrictive covenant, and I think my
question is—I've seen restrictive covenants where you cannot use certain things
or there's a height restriction on the buildings; there's setbacks or similar to that.
My question is, a deed restriction that prohibits the owner or the potential owner
from his right to do short-term vacation rentals. I don't know.
MR. DARROW: I don't know. I mean, that's going to become a legal issue. I
personally seen when we did the short-term vacation rental bill, and one of the
sections in there said that if there were restrictions in, you know, subdivisions or
association or whatever it would be, restricting short-term vacation rentals in that
particular condominium unit or subdivision, you couldn't apply. So, we did
honor those, and we have seen those on, I wouldn't say common basis, but we see
them every so often when we're doing an application for overnight
accommodations in a particular area. And a neighbor would come forward and
say, "You cannot approve this because there's a restrictive covenant not allowing
this in our subdivision." So, I don't think that's illegal to do that. In this
particular case, the focus is on this being the agricultural district, and you're
restricting a use that's otherwise permitted within this district. I hope that
answers your question.
MS. DAVID: Okay. Well, yeah, I've never seen a condition like this, and maybe
I haven't seen as many applications as you have or a condition like this. So, that
was just my question, and I know that Corporation Counsel Strance is going to
give us the legal opinion on that one. Maybe not today, but before I go.
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MR. DARROW: If I could elaborate real quickly, I hear what you're saying, that
I've never seen it I can say this I've never seen it in an ordinance that has come
through us, where we're restricting STVR's or overnight accommodations.
Normally, our restrictive covenant deed has to do with second dwellings and
CPR's. But I have seen CC&R's and deed restrictions for overnight
accommodations or short-term overnight accommodations.
MS. DAVID: Right, thank you for that clarification. I think that's my
understanding as well, but we'll wait until Corp. Counsel comes forward with
some official position. And on that note, I will yield. Mahalo.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks, Ms. David. Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. Just wanted to highlight that since this is an
amendment to—we're still going to FA (Family Agricultural), yeah, which is still
unhosted vacation rentals are still prohibited. So the only type of short-term
vacation rentals would be hosted, which are, of course, unregulated at this point in
time. I just wanted to make that note.
And then in response to your statement just now, Deputy Darrow and Judge
Strance's comment from before. But we haven't seen this coming from the
Planning Department. I do want to acknowledge, actually, in this case, it's not
coming from the Planning Department either. This is being proposed by the
applicant. And so, you know, in response to the previous hesitation that our
Corporation Counsel has to us at making amendments on conditions, in this
scenario, the applicant is actually proposing it. And so I think we treat it in a
slightly different way. So with that, I yield, Chair.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Anyone else? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: To Ms. Kimball's point, it was brought
forward by the applicant, so there wasn't any legal repercussions. It would have
to be most likely from the applicant saying it's unfair, but they are bringing it
forward. Yeah, I mean it does get interesting. But it's interesting that they
brought it forward and we have to have this discussion. That is a very good point,
Ms. Kimball. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Anyone else? Ms. Villegas.
Withdraw Motion Ms. Villegas withdrew her motion to amend Bill 204
to Amend: with the contents of Comm. 952.4.
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PC-32 October 18,2022
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Communication 952.4 has been withdrawn.
Thank you. Alright, moving on to the next communication in your pinkie folder.
May I have a motion to amend Bill 204 with the contents of Comm. 952.5?
Motion to Amend: Ms. Villegas moved to amend Bill 204 with the contents
of Comm. 952.5. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: This one reads, "Each lot owner in the proposed
subdivision shall make fair share contributions to an improvement district for
Hualalai Road if an improvement district is established." Again, this was coming
from the applicant. Mr. Pipan, you have the floor.
MR. PIPAN: Yes, thank you, Chair Kierkiewicz. Again, we're just trying to
make the bill more palatable to the Council, addressing concerns that were
brought up at our previous Planning Committee meeting. And part of those was
what are we doing for Hualalai Road? We're already required there's a set of
paired conditions, G and H I believe, that would, if we're developing a sole
access, with cooperation of the adjacent property on the makai side, off 42, then
we're going to dedicate this road widening strip along the properties fronting
Hualalai Road to the County at no cost.
However, if we're proposing another access onto Hualalai Road, then we're on
the hook for improving that entire half width of Hualalai Road to dedicable
standards, which is much more pricey and gives us incentive to coordinate
development of that sole access with the neighboring property owner. And we're
coordinating access to properties to the south too, contributing to the
interconnectivity of the transportation network here in Kona.
So, this is another way to contribute if sometime in the future, you know, an
improvement district is established to really set straight Hualalai Road, provide all
the improvements to its entire length. These lot owners would chip in that point,
too.
We already have fair share contributions totaling for all categories. Almost
$200,000 for these lots and part of that will go to area traffic road improvements
as well. So it's just another contribution.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Pipan. Any questions or comments on
this amendment? Mr. Inaba.
MR. INABA: Yeah, looking at the other sections of the fair share contributions,
each of them specify an amount. We don't see an amount of this one. So, how do
we intend to come up with that amount later, should an improvement district be
established?
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MR. PIPAN: Thank you, Council Member Inaba. I imagine, I don't know how
exactly improvement districts are established. You know, there's a whole section
of the County Code dedicated to that. I haven't dealt too deeply in that. I would
imagine working with Council Member Villegas, something like that could be
brought forward to the Council specifying, you know, what it would take in terms
of funds to make those improvements. And we'll have to, you know, go through
that review process.
So, I can't say off the top of my head what improving the entire length of Hualalai
Road would cost and then how many lots would be in that improvement district. I
think a lot more work would have to be done to get at that number.
MR. INABA: Deputy Director Darrow.
MR. DARROW: Aloha.
MR. INABA: We've been talking about Kaloko recently, and you know, there is
funds in the fair share specific to the intersection there. How were those amounts
decided, and could the same system apply to determining the fair share
contribution for improvements if the district is established?
MR. DARROW: This might be a little different. The Kaloko intersection was,
you know, uniquely created because of the amount of rezonings that were coming
in the Kaloko Subdivision to rather than put it towards regional improvements,
they focused the fair share amounts directly to Kaloko intersection. I don't think
it was established as an improvement district, more just as a creative way to take
the fair share amounts for the region and apply it directly to the impacted
intersection.
In this particular case, I think they're speaking more about what's referred to in
Chapter 12 of the County Code, which is identified as improvements by
assessments. It refers to improvement districts that are actually designated by the
Council. So the Council would designate an improvement district specifically for
the improvement of Hualalai Road and identify everybody that's connected to that
and would participate. And then they would identify the lead agency, which in
this case according to Chapter 12, appears to be the Department of Public Works,
being that it's a road improvement.
MR. INABA: Okay, I'm just concerned. So, if an improvement district is created
later and we have, you know, families living on these lots, one day they're just
going to be told that they have a$20,000 contribution to an improvement district?
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MR. DARROW: Unfortunately, I have not had very little if any, I think
Deanna Sako from Finance would be a better person to really answer the specifics
of an improvement district. What I can do is, while we're discussing, I can give
her a quick call and just see if she can give me a little bit of information on how
that actually comes about to be able to get the monies; whether it's through a
bond or whether they end up identifying a number of parcels that's going to be
involved. And they have to participate being that they access directly off that
road.
MR. INABA: And at this time, we wouldn't know, necessarily what the scope of
the improvement district would be, right?
MR. DARROW: Correct.
MR. INABA: Is Director Sako available? Okay,perhaps we can come back to
this.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: I just texted the Director to see if she can join us in
Council Chambers briefly.
MR. INABA: Thank you. Yeah, not opposed to the idea, but doesn't make sense
in my opinion to put something with no guidance or teeth later. So, I'll wait for
the Director. I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Ms. David. Was your light on first,
Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder?
MS. DAVID: I'll defer to him.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, go ahead.
MS. DAVID: Go ahead, you didn't talk yet. Okay, thank you. Deputy Director,
so I get it, it's almost similar to a water improvement district where the people
that will benefit from the improvements will either have to buy in or not. Is it
handled the same way where all of the parties involved need to either weigh in
whether they want to do an improvement district or not? Because I believe on a
water improvement district, it had to be over 50 percent of the involved
participants before they could move forward.
The only reason I'm asking is because I'm looking at this amendment, and it says
they will make fair share contributions if an improvement district is established.
And that is such a daunting process, that I'm not sure what the benefit of this is
going to be. I would like to see or hear from Deanna, because it's a long process,
and if the people that are involved do not agree-50 percent of them do not agree
in this process, then it doesn't move. So I'm just going along the lines of Council
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PC-32 October 18,2022
Member Inaba, is what is the benefit of this that we're talking about? If it's
something that says, if a district is established. So, I'll wait for Deanna and I will
yield for now. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Director Sako will be in chambers shortly.
Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, go ahead.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. I think Deanna can
clarify the events of the improvement district process that got shut down by this
body regarding that improvement district. But the first step is feasibility study. I
mean in this case, you're talking about—as far as I know, Hualalai is a County
road. So why on earth are you doing an improvement district for a County road?
It's an interesting prospect, but I'm looking at ordinance right now, and you have
Condition H, which has some requirements for Hualalai Road. I'm trying to
figure out why this amendment, using fair share contributions for an improvement
district and how that ties in with Condition H.
MR. PIPAN: Yes, thank you for your question. This is intended as being
additional to our already required commitment to the fair share requirements in
Condition X. So again, rehashing conditions G and H. So, we've got paired
conditions here. It's an if-then proposal. So, if we can develop a single access
with coordination with the adjacent property on the makai lot, Lot 42, to serve
both of those properties.
We don't know what's going to be developed there. The property is still in
escrow, so we're taking a risk there by saying, "Yes, we can have a single
access." If we're able to accomplish that, then we're just dedicating that road
widening strip along Hualalai Road. The case where we're not able to just have a
single sole access develop with coordination with Lot 42, then we're on the hook
for the entire half-section of Hualalai Road improvement. So it's an if-then,
yeah?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So, if a secondary access is developed, then
the applicant shall provide improvements to the entire frontage?
MR. PIPAN: Yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: If not, what does that hinge on? What is
that hinging on? Whose approval it is?
MR. PIPAN: Just, if there's one access, and this is at final subdivision approval.
If we come in and we're showing one access and it's there and there's no other
separate access, none of the individual lots are allowed to connect directly to
Hualalai Road.
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So, we get our final subdivision approval without improving Hualalai Road, if
there's one road accessing both this lot and Lot 42 on the makai side, right?
(Note: At this time, the applicant Siting Chen came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
MR. CHEN: Thank you, Councilman. I'm Siting Chen, I go by Steve. So, I'm
the new owner. Before they tried high-density and then 7,000 square feet. But
anyway, it's like 40 something units of development in this area. So for a high-
density development, there was a requirement to do the infrastructure for the road,
right? But the previous owner did the calculations and they could not do it, so the
whole thing was abandoned.
So I came in with the idea with quite a few good people, local people and advised
them that this would be a good place for, you know, low-density. So, low-impact
development. I'm interested in, you know, only one development to build a home
for myself, so that's why I got into this. And so a low-density zoning with only
11 units. That's why to reconcile that, we offered to donate, you know, the road
that enough space for the road widening in the future, but because it's such a
small scale, they will not be able to build the road per se, so we'll be able to
contribute fair share.
But again, the single access was to try to reduce the impact. So very minimal
impact. It's not even a single access, actually half an access, because what we're
proposing is an access in conjunction with the neighboring property. So, I talked
to the future buyer and they are agreeable with that. They're very flexible. So
that way we try to reduce any impact, very minimal. So that's why we reconcile
with this kind of restriction for one single access, actually half access with this
low profile development. That's the idea. So, we're hoping this works for the
community very well for this development.
You know, the people objecting the high-density development, understandably
right? Because of the impact of Hualalai Road. But with this zoning, there seems
to be a lot of people like this idea, and we're getting a lot of good feedbacks. So
there seems to be very minimal, in a way, impact on Hualalai itself and we're
trying everything to minimize the impact. So if that helps.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That is helpful. I'm concerned about the
fair share contributions being applied to an improvement district. That doesn't
make sense to me. And I would say that my knowledge of an improvement
district, anyone who benefits from an improvement district has to be that would
be owners on both sides of the road.
MR. PIPAN: Yes.
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PC-32 October 18,2022
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Because Hualalai benefits both sides, not
just one side.
MR. PIPAN: And really that's the intent, not to limit contributions or say that the
contributions required in Condition X, the fair share are contingent on this
improvement district. This would be an additional sum to the County at that time.
Now, if it complicates things, we're fully in favor of having less conditions on
this rezone. And if it makes things more complicated, then maybe better without
it. It's fully up to you folks.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm still wrapping my head around this
condition in the existing ordinance. Without this amendment, although this is
touching on it, but this Condition H, it's basically saying this is on you, the cost of
improving Hualalai Road if you build a second access road. Is that correct? I
know you're decreasing the density. I understand that component. But there's
something just not right about these two interplaying with each other. I'm just
going to say that.
MR. PIPAN: So in that case, it makes sense to just look at G. So, Hualalai Road
is a connector road. So provided that the sole access to Hualalai Road is
developed as a shared access in coordination with development of the adjacent
parcel to the west, the future road widening strip will be dedicated and given to
the County. That would cover what we're intending to do. We don't intend to
develop a second access.
MR. CHEN: So, they're saying that in that condition, it was basically to
discourage any secondary access, because any secondary access will make this
project not feasible at all, because that will require road widening. So all of that
was to deter any possibility of secondary access. That's all, that's what it meant.
I understand it's kind of confusing but what I mean is that there's no way that
anyone is going to do a secondary access. Simple as that.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. PIPAN: And part of the difficulty initially with arguing these conditions,
crafting these conditions, was we're required to compel action by the neighboring
property owner, who we don't even know who they're going to be this time next
year. The property is in escrow. It may fall through, who knows. So, making
commitments for our project based on commitments of others is very difficult,
right? We cannot compel their action. So this gives us an out, but it's not really
an out, right? It says we really want to develop this sole access with the
neighboring property owner, and really, the project would be infeasible if we had
to develop a secondary access.
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MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: There's a lot of different things that play
within this section. I'm concerned that the fair share contributions being directed
to apply to the improvement district. There's a couple different methods, but
usually it requires a vote of some sort to each parcel owner who's affected by it.
And then whatever the outcome of that vote is, whether it happens or not. And
then from there but we have to do a feasibility study first. There's a lot of
components.
MR. PIPAN: Yes, understood. This is a big assumption if it's established. It
may never be established. We've seen conditions like this go to other projects
too. For instance, a property along Alii Drive on cesspool, wants to be upgraded
to sewer, there's no sewer in the area. A condition of a use permit there would
require that owner to contribute to an improvement district, should one be
established, to extend the sewer.
You know, we've seen this come up in other projects before, so it seemed like a
way, not a sure deal that it's going to be established, but should it be established,
these guys are on board.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Whose idea was this?
MR. PIPAN: This was mine.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Interesting. Okay, thank you. I yield Chair.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Director Sako, thank you so much for being
incredibly patient. But I'm glad you got to hear some of the dialogue that we're
having here at Council. There was some questions that have come up from my
colleagues about what's entailed in setting up an improvement district. So if you
could just give us a one-on-one on how that works, that would be really helpful.
Thank you.
(Note: At this time, Director of Finance Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: I think as was previously mentioned, you know, normally the
majority need to agree to move forward with the improvement district, or some
kind of vote. There's like an appeal period,people can maybe not opt out, but
protest and say they don't want to join. So normally an improvement district
comes, you know, from the community, you know, with them wanting to do this.
If this is just an eleven-lot district, that would not be very big, you know. So it
would depend on the size and the dollar amount of the improvements to ensure
that, you know, it was affordable to each of the lot owners as well. That usually is
what determines if they want to vote for it or not.
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PC-32 October 18,2022
So then after that, we would form the district; we would have to plan it; do some
kind of study to make sure everybody knows what it's going to cost, and then go
out to bid, do the work. And then start billing them for anywhere from 20 to
30 years depending on how much the cost is. And usually we can bill monthly or
quarterly.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Thank you, Director Sako. I'm going to go to
Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. Yeah,just a couple comments on the
amendment. I think the intention is right. The process is inherently flawed. I
think we've all kind of come to the conclusion that the improvement district
process is going to be burdensome and inappropriate for this.
In addition, I have concerns that it wouldn't play well with some of the other
conditions, which is the maximum limit on the fair share per property is already
set. And so, you're saying there's going to be this additional potential fair share,
but we've actually established that there's already a mechanism through
Condition S, area maximum.
I'm going to propose and Deputy Director, if you can correct me, if there's any
reason why this couldn't be done, but wouldn't it be possible under S, where we
do have the fair share language that we could put an additional clause in there that
says that if the secondary access is required, a fair share would be required
dedicated specifically to that road? Is there any reason we couldn't put within the
list of fair share items, a very specific usage for that road?
MR. DARROW: I mean, that's possible. My thought would be that if the
applicant proposed the second access, he'd have to improve it. If you're talking
improvements within the road itself, I'm pretty sure he's going to be responsible
for whatever's required to set up that access outside of any fair share
improvement district.
I think what's kind of throwing us off here, is the language in the condition. It
refers to the fair share, you know, "make fair share contributions to an
improvement district." And I think people are getting confused that the fair share
it's speaking about in the conditions, is the same fair share it's talking about
paying the improvement district. I think they're not the same. I think the
applicant is required to pay the fair share in the ordinance if an improvement
district is set up by Council, then whoever is involved in that improvement district
would have to participate in the improvements. And correct me if I'm wrong,
Deanna, usually these improvement districts are set up not just by one applicant.
It's kind of going to be however big that improvement district is. Everybody
participates. So if it's the length of Hualalai Road, all the owners can petition the
Council or petition whoever, and then if the Council approves that improvement
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PC-32 October 18,2022
district, they'll all participate, and again, they'll have their right to appeal if they
don't want to be a part of it.
It usually doesn't come into an ordinance other than, if an improvement district is
established, then they have to participate. Going forward, hopefully the Council
will look at the possibility at creating an improvement district along the entire
length of this area of Hualalai Road to make it safer. And by ordinance, this
applicant and possibly all lot owners that access at that point would have to
participate based on this condition in that ordinance. We have no idea what the
amount would be, but it would be completely separate from the fair share
condition.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, thank you for that, Deputy. That is clear, and I think
maybe that terminology of fair share is ambiguous. It's throwing things off here,
but it sounds like, under normal circumstances, if an improvement district were
proposed, the folks in that improvement district area would have the right to say,
"No, we don't want to participate." But with this condition in the ordinance
basically, all of the subsequent lot owners are compelled and obligated to agree to
payment if an improvement district is created. Am I understanding you correctly?
MR. DARROW: That's what I think the intent of the condition that the applicant
has put forth would entail.
MS. SAKO: Sorry, I just wanted to say, I think that would conflict with
Chapter 12, and probably would invalidate the zoning ordinance, actually, or
invalidate something.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, there's multiple problems with this. You know, I'm
going to suggest obviously, that we withdraw this for right now, but I think
there's a logic to it. I think we just got to find the right process, which is, that if
you're connected to this road, you're obviously going to have to make the
frontage improvements, but there may be additional improvements because of the
folks entering this area are going to have to traverse across a fairly large portion
of it. So, back to the drawing board. Appreciate the effort, but yeah, I think this
is not quite going to get us where we need to be. Alright, thank you, Chair. I
yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Yeah, you know, I don't know what provided the impetus for this
proposed amendment, but I'll tell you this. That's 45 minutes of my life I'm
never getting back already. You know, in my 16 years of being on the Council, I
think it's probably the most ridiculous conversation I ever heard, quite frankly. I
mean,just going round and round and round, and not getting anywhere. No
offense to anyone, because I don't know where this thing came from.
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We cannot approve something like this. That means the Council is validating or
being a part of requiring people to now participate in an improvement district.
We don't even know what the cost of the improvement district is going to be,
right? These guys are going to come back and look at us. If you guys want to put
that in your convenance, go ahead, you know. That's a private thing. You guys
do that. But we cannot be complicitous to something like this. You guys have
every right to do that, but for us to validate something like that, that's wrong. So,
that's my two cents. Hopefully, that was short.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Deanna,
thank you for joining us. You and I had a lengthy discussion about improvement
districts about a year ago. But in that caseI mean despite everything that's
involved in that whole chapter, now, here's another chapter, it's about
improvement districts as well.
MS. SAKO: Yeah, Chapter 12 is about improvement districts.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Have you ever seen an improvement district
for a County road that exists?
MS. SAKO: Normally, it's for a new infrastructure that is then dedicated to the
County. And you know, built to County standards and then dedicated to the
County. So it would be unusual to make improvements to a County road already.
Could it be done? Perhaps. I can check with Bond Counsel, but you know, I did
hear something about widening or shoulders or something like that. So it might
be possible. But it's how you define the district and what the improvements are
that's going to determine if it's allowable or not. But as you said, it's usually for
new infrastructure that doesn't already exist.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I've got to say, Ms. Lee Loy said, "Why do
we pay taxes then?" And I'm thinking the exact same thing. We pay fuel taxes to
fix roads. We have a highway fund to fix roads. An improvement district that's
paid for by the taxpayers to pay for road improvements,just doesn't make any
sense to me. If it was not a County road, okay maybe, but right now, this makes
absolutely no sense to me. I'm just making sure that I'm on the right path here
remembering what I already
MS. SAKO: Right. This is not something we would normally do.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I'm voting no on this, thank you.
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, I think we've exhausted discussion on this
particular amendment. Ms. Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yes, I'd like to make a motion to withdraw.
Withdraw Motion Ms. Villegas withdrew her motion to amend Bill 204
to Amend: with the contents of Comm. 952.5.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Communication 952.5 has been withdrawn. Alright.
And Mr. Pipan, for these two, you know, this was a robust discussion. Between
now and if this is still in Committee or in Council,but use time going forward to
connect with the Planning Department on how we might appropriately word these
proposed amendments. Okay, thank you. May I have a motion to amend Bill 204
with the contents of Communication 952.6?
Motion to Amend: Mr. Inaba moved to amend Bill 204 with the contents
of Comm. 952.6. Seconded by Ms. David.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: And this is related to construction of dry sewer lines.
Mr. Pipan.
MR. PIPAN: Yes, thanks again. Sorry, we unwittingly stepped on a hornet's nest
on the last proposed amendment. Well intentions not going unpunished. So, this
one I think is a pretty clear benefit to the County and environment with the
incorporation of dry sewers into this subdivision prior to final subdivision.
If any home is built prior to connection of those dry sewers, they will have to
install a septic system with the approval of the Department of Health, and then
eventually connect to the sewer system when it becomes fully connected. So that
again, is the intent, and apologies if the wording is not completely there. But
again, our intent is to bring it in line with the concerns that were expressed by the
Council at our previous meeting, and make it a more acceptable development
overall.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Deputy Planning Director Darrow, have you
had a chance to review the communication that we are currently discussing? Just
want to make sure that you're okay with the language that's being proposed.
MR. DARROW: I have reviewed it. The concern is the statement that"Should
the dry sewer not be connected to the County sewer system at the time of building
permit application,"the lot owner can basically move forward with a septic
system and not hook up to the proposed County system.
We've had situations in the past where there was no sewer in the area, and this
actually had to do with an improvement district, but we won't go back to that.
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Anyway, so, the requirement was that the applicant put in dry sewers, and at the
time that sewer was connected, then all the people that built their house and put in
septic systems had to vacate the septic and hook up to the County sewer system.
I am not 100 percent sure, but I think that was a County requirement in DEM
(Department of Environmental Management) rules. So just moving forward on
this amendment, I would just want to make sure that there isn't going to be a
requirement that once it's hooked up, because the dry sewer is available to those
lots, they aren't required to hook up. That may very well be a requirement by
Environmental Management. Other than that, I know it took a lot for the
applicant to propose this condition and we support it moving forward.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Deputy Director. Questions or comments
from my colleagues? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sorry. Thank you, Chair. I'm looking at a
letter from Land Planning Hawaii, LLC to Mr. Darrow regarding this dry sewer,
and more so, the connection to the County sewer system, which is, I guess, no
more than 300 feet away. Right, wrong?
MR. PIPAN: The existing County sewer system is over 500 feet from the
perimeter of the property.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Unless I'm on the wrong one. No,
this is the right one, Bill 204. Within this letter from yourself, John Pipan to
Mr. Darrow with regard to the comment letter sent to the Department of
Environmental Management, dated December 21", 2022, which would put it this
coming Christmas, which hasn't happened yet. That letter states, the proposed
subdivision A is within 300 feet of an existing County sewer system, and
therefore, the applicant needs to connect to the sewer system according to
(Chapter 23) Section 23-85 of the Hawaii County Code.
MR. PIPAN: Yes, that was the initial comment back from DEM, and they're
referencing a portion of the County sewer system that's within a dead-end street, a
cul-de-sac. And to connect to that portion, we would have to go through
developed homes. So that is infeasible. We would have to be connecting to the
stub-out at Paulehia Street, much farther makai, again over 500 feet as the crow
flies from Dr. Chen's property.
So there was a couple of different communications, comments from DEM. They
first said you're required to connect to the sewer system because you were within
300 feet. We responded to their comment with the detail that I just related to you.
They came back after that with another comment letter saying that, either you
connect to the sewer system or comply with the Department of Health (DOH)
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requirements, which in this case, the Department of Health commented that septic
systems are okay for one dwelling on each lot.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I think as a goal right now, our County is
trying to get everybody either on septic, which you're accepting or get on the
County sewer system so that we're helping our environment. I'm not in love with
this amendment, and I'm just I mean we do have a County rule about this. Is
there no way for you guys to attach that stub, is it underneath of a house?
MR. PIPAN: So, to build the dry sewer within the subdivision is within our
build,just barely. That link is going to cost many, tens of thousands, hundreds of
thousands of dollars. To extend the sewer line across the neighboring parcel,
Lot 42, to where the County sewer system currently exists is totally impossible. It
kills the project. We can't make the project pencil out with that expense. So
that's why dry sewers become a condition of some of these projects where you
can't currently connect to the sewers where they're dry. But when it becomes
available you then connect.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Connect to it? I'm actually going to yield
for now and somebody else can go.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Mr. Inaba.
MR. INABA: Mr. Pipan, it's physically impossible or financially not feasible?
MR. PIPAN: Financially, not feasible.
MR. INABA: Okay, so the requirement is that you are supposed to connect
because you're within 300 feet, is that right?
MR. PIPAN: Yes.
MR. INABA: According to DEM?
MR. PIPAN: So, the way the Code is written, it's not very detailed. So, we're
looking at maps of the sewer system that don't tell you where, you know, you're
going to extend through. So in that sense, if we're required to connect to build the
entire sewer to Paulehia, we're not going to be able to accomplish the project. So
it's financially infeasible, yes.
MR. INABA: So like the other amendments, whose idea is this? Because I'm
looking at the language that's being struck in this amendment which says in my
reading that, individual wastewater systems would be allowed. So now, we're
changing and saying that you have to. Who is saying this? Why are we doing
this?
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MR. PIPAN: Apologies again if the wording is not quite there. The intent is to
give connection to the sewer system to the County for these lots, but we have to
consider the potential eventuality that we build the dry sewer within the
subdivision, but there hasn't been connection across Lot 42 to complete the sewer
connection. So in that case, the lot owner would be allowed to build with the
septic system approved by Department of Health.
But at the time, again this is (Chapter 21) Section 21-5 of the County Code,
Connection to the sewer required. When the sewer line is connected, it's
available, they would be required to connect and decommission that septic
system. So the intent again is to make this to address the concerns that were
brought up at the first—and you know, we're not trying to sneak out of anything
here. We're trying to make it better.
MR. CHEN: Can I say one word, Councilman Inaba? Yeah, so about this issue,
so you're right. The deal is how can you upgrade? A septic tank is acceptable
because this lot is one acre, and the minimum requirement is 10,000 square feet.
So the overflow time is bigger than the minimum requirement. So a septic tank is
accepted. So, it's easy to do that, but some people opt to do the requirement to do
a dry sewer connection in addition to the DOH requirements.
So the argument is that, you have a dry sewer connection, but once it becomes
available, you won't be required to connect. So that's fine. The reason we cannot
connect right now is because the 300-feet distance they recommend the distance
from the border through somebody's bedroom—go through somebody's
bedroom. So, there's no way to build it at 300 feet.
So the actual, the practical way to access is over 500 feet from our property.
That's why it's way beyond the 300-feet requirement. So the 300 linear feet is
not practical, and there's no way to build, you know, under people's bedroom.
MR. INABA: So, is it 300 feet or 500 feet?
MR. PIPAN: Again, to a dead-end cul-de-sac where the sewer exists surrounded
by developed properties, that's within 300 feet from Dr. Chen's property.
However, we can't extend from there. We'd have to extend from over 500 feet
away.
MR. INABA: Okay, so, I mean looking at this now, so we don't keep going in
circles with this round, we're going to still allow the individual wastewater
systems if the dry sewer is not connected at the time of subdivision approval,
right?
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PC-32 October 18,2022
MR. PIPAN: At the time of building permit, we have to build the sewer within
the subdivision to get final subdivision approval, that we're committing to. But
we don't want to say that no one can build homes and contribute to the much
needed housing in the County until the sewer is connected across the adjacent
property. So, they would be allowed at that point to install septic systems.
MR. INABA: Okay, last question. Jeff, oh, your hand is raised, go ahead.
MR. DARROW: I can wait for your question, Councilman Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. A simple yes or no. Should they, or are they required
to connect and make that connection right now?
MR. DARROW: No.
MR. INABA: Okay, and you were going to say?
MR. DARROW: Well, if I can elaborate on it? That's why I was raising my
hand. As the bird flies, from an aerial view, what John is trying to say is, yes, it's
within 300 feet. When you're on the ground and you have to take the pipe to
where it needs to go, it's 500 feet. The problem is, it has to go through the makai
parcel, Parcel 42. They need to develop to bring the sewer from Pualani
Subdivision into their property.
Earlier there was a question, is this an issue of cost, or is this an issue of not being
able develop? I don't think the applicant has the ability to run the sewer line
through someone else's property without any sewer easement established, because
we have no idea what the design for that property is going to be. So I would think
it's also a matter of cost, but I don't think they can actually do it physically on the
ground without there being a sewer easement of something through there.
Again, the intention is good. The applicant I mean there was a lot of discussion
on this regarding the dry sewer line. There came a point when DOH and DEM
agreed to allow the applicant to move forward with the individual wastewater
systems.
The applicant has not submitted an amendment to say they will do the dry sewer
line. I'm just requesting that moving forward, maybe prior to our next hearing,
that the applicant or myself check with DEM to make sure that they're not going
to be the building permits that come in and build their houses with the septic, if
later if the connection is made, if they're still going to be required to hook up to
that dry sewer. My thought is they may be required to. So that will be still costs
of those lot owners. Thank you.
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MR. PIPAN: If I may? Section 21-5, as Deputy Director Darrow is speaking to,
would require owners' well dwellings, buildings, properties used for human
occupancy, employment, etcetera, to require at their expense to connect directly to
the public sewer system within 180 days. This is required by DEM, by again,
County Code, Chapter 21. So we're not saying that if they have a septic system,
they wouldn't connect to a sewer system, they would. That's the intent.
MR. INABA: Okay. Promise, last question. Jeff,you can go ahead first, and I'll
ask my question after.
MR. DARROW: Thank you. I'll just mention, that I think it would be fair that if
we move forward with this condition, that we state that in that condition, so that
the applicants or lot owners would not be, you know, blindsided by reality, they
have to hook up.
MR. INABA: Okay. And then, thank you. And the requirement you talked
about, as the bird flies or the actual piping distance, what is the actual legal
requirement? Which one?
MR. DARROW: It's 300 feet, but again, when we spoke to DEM and expressed
the situation, there was no direct sewer easement to the property within 300 feet.
So when we expressed the reality that we had to go around and the length was
actually 500 feet, that's when they provided an additional comment letter saying
that they were okay proceeding with the not hooking up and allowing the
individual wastewater systems.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. I'll be supporting the amendment.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Mr. Chung.
MR. CHUNG: Jeff, you guys probably answered this during the course of this
discussion, but could you, in six sentences or less, explain the difference between
what was originally there and what is being proposed? What's the difference?
Start with what was originally there. What are they required to do? Because
there was all kinds of Hawaii Administrative Rules referenced and all of that.
What are they required to do?
MR. DARROW: Okay, originally they were allowed to hook up to a septic
system if prior to final subdivision.
MR. CHUNG: And that's the individual wastewater system, right?
MR. DARROW: Correct. So, they were allowed to hook up to a septic system,
individual waste water system if sewer was not made available prior to final
subdivision approval.
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MR. CHUNG: Okay, so now this one requires them to install, well the dry sewer.
What are dry sewers anyway? That's just the empty pipes, right?
MR. DARROW: Yeah, it's preparing for eventual connection to the County
sewer.
MR. CHUNG: Okay. And if it's not connected to the County sewer, what
happens?
MR. DARROW: The applicant is, at the time of building permit, lot owners can
build their house, put in a septic system. But once the makai property is
developed and brings in the sewer to hook up to the dry sewer line, as Mr. Pipan
stated, they have 180 days to abandon the individual wastewater and hook up to
the now connected County sewer system.
MR. CHUNG: So this is actually better then, right?
MR. DARROW: Yes.
MR. CHUNG: Okay, because they're putting in the hardware, but everything else
is the same, right? I mean the septic systems.
MR. DARROW: Personally, it's going to be expensive for those lot owners that
come in and build prior to this hookup because they're going to pay for their
individual wastewater system and then later they're going to pay that connect.
MR. CHUNG: Right. The other one they didn't have to put in the hardware,
right? Alright, thanks.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, anyone else? Ms. Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: I just wanted to point out, I mean there's so many
complications to this, and the fact that—and you guys, I went ahead and pulled
the file on this piece of property from the prior potential developer that ran it all
the way through and then pulled it. That also had a lot to do with the density of
that proposed development, and the line for our CDP (Community Development
Plan), our urban areas running directly through the property.
So I do commend you on bringing something less dense, but there are too many
stipulations with this. Lot 42, which is right below it, which is where the sewer
line would have to come through is currently zoned RS-10, but that's expired. So
they're going to have to come to us. And this is the property that's in escrow that
nobody would say who's buying it. There are just too many odd, and not-aligned
pipes, as a pun on this specific amendment.
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PC-32 October 18,2022
And I understand. You know, in our meeting when we sat and talked, essentially,
it was, you can give this or you can give that, is what you were talking about as
far as a compromise for the feasibility of the project. It's putting in the
infrastructure for sewer or affordable housing for a couple of lots.
All of the amendments that we, you know, the things you kind of offered and then
brought forth here today,just don't seem to be sinking. So I want to get through
this amendment and close it out; pass it or don't pass it and get back to the project
at hand, if we could.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Any other comments on the amendment before us?
Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This sewer system connection would be a
good use of an improvement district. That's my two cents, thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Richards.
MR. RICHARDS: Quick question about the numbers. What does it cost to put in
the dry sewer?
MR. PIPAN: Round numbers, back of the envelope, about$300, $400 per linear
foot. And we're looking at probably 600 or 700 feet. Let's do that real quick,
split the difference. Probably a quarter of a million dollars for the dry sewer, at
least, and this is very rough numbers, you know. We have to prepare engineering
designs. The costs obviously relates to how deep they have to go for the pipes;
the rock they encounter. So, I'd say a quarter of a million dollars, plus.
MR. RICHARDS: Okay. I won't disagree, but we're pricing this out of—locals
won't be able to afford it. That's the problem.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Richards. Just observing the
conversation, there might be some potential amendments to this amendment. So
if I could ask Mr. Inaba to withdraw, so we can wordsmith it further? That would
be great.
MR. INABA: I withdraw the motion.
Withdraw Motion Mr. Inaba withdrew his motion to amend Bill 204
to Amend: with the contents of Comm. 952.6.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, we are back to the main motion which is
Bill 204, as presented. Mr. Villegas.
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MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, we've gone through a lot of details and a lot of
potential—you know, I respect and I'm grateful for your efforts to come up with
solutions. But so far this development, subdivision is half-baked, and you know,
there's this sense of urgency to push things through. But things aren't aligning.
The property just makai of it, in its state of, you know, in possibly being
purchased and possibly going to be workforce housing, I don't want us to end up
on the line feeling like we have to then when that comes before us, do a zoning
time extension on that property, because then your property is relying on sewer.
It just isn't sitting right with me.
I respect and I appreciate your desire to build a home here, and while I appreciate
the opportunity for us to have more doctors here, I don't like it being tethered to
having to compromise for infrastructure opportunities.
You know, in our conversation and discovering your wife's occupation in the real
estate market, there are amazing real estate agents, but that also brings to light
some of the concerns that were expressed by some of my colleagues before about
speculation.
There's no legal requirement that once you change the zoning, that you're going
to even sell these ten lots. You could sit on it for as long as you want, and sell
them as the market continues to heighten, which doesn't bring us any more
reasonable housing accommodations for people who already live here. Nor does
it bring us solutions to our infrastructure challenges.
And as Kona continues to grow, it is imperative that infrastructure improvements
are aligned with concurrency of development of our roads, our sewers, our
schools and workforce housing, because we are pricing people out of the market.
And unfortunately, this subdivision will be more of the same.
I will also acknowledge my heartburn in this area on Hualalai Road with the
already existing challenges with neighboring properties and unpermitted uses and
incompatible zoning for what's actually occurring there, and the toll that takes on
Hualalai Road. It is a very windy, very dangerous, very narrow road that already
has a charter school attached to it.
So for all those reasons listed, I'm not going to be supporting this moving to
Council with a positive recommendation today. And I would encourage you to
continue to look for the most appropriate use for the property, and perhaps that is
two lots at five acres. But also removing just letting it be that. Letting it be a
home for yourself, as opposed to development of another subdivision that does
not authentically contribute to providing more housing or infrastructure
improvements for our community. And we're just at that place in time here, and
the roadways need to be concurrent and connecting between Pualani Estates and
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PC-32 October 18,2022
whatnot. Yeah, I'm going to have to go with my gut on this. And so, that's my
statement. I yield.
MR. CHEN: Understand. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Chen. Any other questions or
comments? Okay, seeing none, there is a motion on the floor to forward Bill 204
to the Council with a favorable recommendation. Mr. Clerk, if we could please
do a roll call.
Vote on Bill 204: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 204 on first
(Approved) reading was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy,
Richards, and Chair Kierkiewicz—5.
Noes: Committee Members David, Inaba,
Kimball, and Villegas —4.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
(Note: Mr. Inaba voted "kanalua"then "no.")
MR. HENRICKS: The motion carries.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Bill 204 is forwarded to the Council with a
favorable recommendation. Gentlemen, we'll see you in two weeks. In the
meantime, feel free to work with my office and Planning Department on
amendments.
And Council Member Villegas, we will certainly be in touch and keep in touch
with you, because this is your district, and we want to make sure you're apprised
of all the developments related this bill. Thank you.
We're at the end of our agenda. May I have a motion to adjourn?
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PC-32 October 18,2022
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 4:17 p.m., Ms. Kimball moved to adjourn the
MENT: meeting. Seconded by Mr. Inaba, and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Inaba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Richards, Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz— 9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: Planning Committee is adjourned at 4:17 p.m. Mahalo
nui everyone.
MR. PIPAN: Thank you very much.
MR. DARROW: Aloha. Thank you.
Appro •'
111 ( 1 (
Ms A . Kierkiewicz, Chair (Da e)
Planning Committee
AK/dt
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