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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PRPSC 2022/10/18 2020-2022 Committee on Parks and Recreation and Public Safety 38th Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawaii October 18, 2022 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Parks and Recreation and Public ORDER: Safety was called to order at 9:30 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Chair Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Vice Chair Mr. Aaron S. Y. Chung, Member Ms. Maile Medeiros David, Member (came in later) Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Mr. Herbert M. "Tim" Richards, III, Member(came in later) Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Comm. 1033. PUBLIC ON COMM. 1033: (There were none.) CHR. INABA: Thank you. For the record, Chair David has joined us. And we'll take up Communication 1033, Mr. Clerk. Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the of Business: following item was taken out of order: COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 Comm. 1033: NOMINATION OF DYLAN ANDRION TO THE POLICE COMMISSION From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated September 27, 2022, requesting the Council's review and confirmation. Requires Council Confirmation by: November 10, 2022 (Section 13-4(k) Hawaii County Charter) Vote on Comm. 1033: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend confirmation of the (Approved) appointment of Mr. Dylan Andrion to the Police Commission. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Inaba—8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Richards — 1. Excused: None. Executive Assistant to the Mayor Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward and provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment. CHR. INABA: Mahalo Mr. Andrion, have a great day. With that, we will go to the top of the agenda,please, Mr. Clerk. Return to Order The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business. of Business: STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Lori Johnson: Comm. 987, comment. Ron Johnson: Comm. 987, comment. Susan Bambara: Comm. 987, comment. (see Comm. 987.50) Sylvia Dolena: Comm. 987, comment. Judy Howard: Comm. 987, comment. Page 2 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 Todd Yukutake: Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), comment. (see Comm. 1022.92) Ian Foo: Comm. 987, in support. Lauren Foo: Comm. 987, comment. Linda Lee Kamahele: Comm. 987, comment. Reiko Sugiura: Comm. 987, comment. Dwight Vicente: Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), comment. Loke K. Keanaaina: Comm. 987, comment. (see Comm. 987.65) Helen Hemmes: Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), in support. (see Comm. 987.79) Sammie Stanbro: Bill 220 (Comm. 1022); in support. Kathleen McGilvray: Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), comment. Beverly Yates-Tese: Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), comment. Ruth Robison Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), comment. CHR. INABA: Okay, with that then, can we please proceed with the top of the agenda, Mr. Clerk. Comm. 987: REQUESTS A DISCUSSION WITH THE HAWAII POLICE DEPARTMENT REGARDING ANIMAL CONTROL SERVICES From Council Member Heather Kimball, dated August 25, 2022. Postponed: October 4, 2022 (Note: there is a motion by Ms. Kimball, seconded by Mr. Richards, to close file on Comm. 987.) (Note: Comm. 987.47, transmitting the Shelter Activity Report was circulated.) CHR. INABA: Thank you. Ms. Kimball, if you want to take it away with this discussion, go ahead. Page 3 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. As mentioned, last time this was postponed because animal control services had requested a little more time to prepare for some information. I believe they are available today over in the Hilo Chambers. So if I can just ask them to come forward to the speaking table. Thank you so much. If you wouldn't mind just introducing yourselves and I believe you have a presentation for us so you can just go ahead and take it away. Thank you. (Note: At this time, Police Major Aimee Wana and Director of Animal Control Regina Serrano came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. WANA: Good morning, Council Members, my name is Major Aimee Wana. I'm with the Hawaii Police Department, and with me is Regina DoDaro Romero Serrano. We currently oversee the Animal Control program. We overtook animal control last year, July. Since then, we have acquired a permanent facility in East Hawaii, which we moved into this past June. That facility was a former boarding facility, which we are working with County personnel to harden and make safe for the animals that we are currently housing. A lot of these animals that we are dealing with is not necessarily the pets that many portray them to be. A lot of the animals that we are taking in, especially under the amended County Code, are fractious animals that are truly dangerous to both staff and the community. We currently have a number of personnel. Right now, we have an Animal Control Director, two lead Animal Control Officers, four Animal Control Officers, and five Kennel Technicians. We are missing a number of positions, which accounts for the current budget, which is a little over $2 million worth of the funding. We are seeking a Transfer Coordinator as well as two Shelter Managers. We continue to look for Animal Control Officers and Kennel Technician positions. We continue to build out the agency to be fully functioning and provide the services that is mandated by the Hawaii County Code. Currently, our shelter can house 44 dogs and 30 cats in West Hawaii, and in the East Hawaii Shelter, we have 60 dogs and 20 cats. There are again, the facility in West Hawaii does need a lot of tender loving care. We are again working with County Departments to bring those facilities up to par and make them safe for both animals as well as our workers and the community. The new revision of Hawaii County Code, Chapter 4-32 has resulted in the increase of animals that are maintained at our shelters. These animals cannot be released until these cases are adjudicated, which is something substantially different from what any of our predecessors have ever encountered. We do continue to do intake of animals and respond to calls at all hours of the day. Page 4 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 MS. SERRANO: Thank you for having us. You know, animal control is traditionally always in the center of some level of controversy. MS. KIMBALL: Could you please introduce yourself before you proceed? Sorry to interrupt. MS. SERRANO: Oh certainly. My name is Regina Serrano. I am the Director for Animal Control with the Hawaii County Police Department. I have been with animal control through the years with a variety of different agencies including two different nonprofits. So I do have the unique experience of seeing the differences between running this operation with the abilities of a nonprofit, and also the abilities under a government entity. What I'm seeing a lot of in the public here, you know, via testimony, which I don't think is a bad thing, you know, what this tells me with people coming forward to share their experiences or their concerns is that they care. They care about animals, and I would rather have people sharing that and looking for solutions, than not. But what I also see is that there is a large level of misinformation that has been spread in the community for more than a year. I hope today we can bring more clarity and accuracy to what is really going on in the shelters and some of our challenges, you know, currently with operations and how this Council can better support us, and in turn, the community. As Major Wana stated, our shelters are in disrepair. The West Hawaii Shelter, which was the original County-owned facility, to put it nicely, is literally falling apart around us. The runs are most unsecure with welding requirements, and you know, replacement needed for the majority of those containment areas. Many of those runs don't even have a roof, meaning these animals could potentially climb out. We're also dealing with that on the east side shelter, which is the newly acquired Barking Dog facility. Now, that might not seem like a big deal to somebody that, you know, is impounding a pet that simply is lost, that's socialized. But for us, especially with the changes in the new dangerous dog law, we are impounding and having to hold animals that are extremely fractious that put my shelter staff at risk and potentially anyone coming into the shelters to view animals. Currently, I just looked at my shelter population this morning and currently I have 201 animals in our care. Out of those animals, 27 are essentially animals that are either 125 holds, under dangerous dog, confiscates for various reasons such as animal cruelty and neglect, investigations, et cetera, and owner arrests. Those animals cannot go anywhere right now. In addition to that, we have 14 animals that are under 48 hours. Page 5 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 So right off the bat, you have almost an entire shelter filled with animals that cannot leave. What that does to our ability to take in new animals that might be healthy strays and accommodate the public when there are uncontained, loose animals at any hour, it's challenging to say the least. For our ability to take in the amount of pets that the County would like us to, we do need increased shelter space, and we need safe shelter space. Going back to our dangerous dog laws, I don't think anybody, when passing this, realized the impact on Animal Control and our capacity to hold these animals while taking in new ones. Our court systems only work as fast as they do, and we do not have control over how quickly an animal moves through the system, whether it be screening or court proceedings. Many of these animals have been within our care from eight months to a year, and it is our job to house these animals in the most humane way possible, and of course as safely as possible for both our staff and anybody entering in and out of the shelters. Part of that includes, you know, all of the medical care that is provided for these animals, none of which, unfortunately, is required by the law. And while many of the testimony providers are asking for increase in changes of the law, I agree, and I think Major Wana would also agree with that. Our Code is archaic, and many of these issues are outdated, and our ordinances are outdated. These do need the attention of our government officials who do have the ability to bring us into modern-day eras. Part of what we do at Animal Control is largely misunderstood. We are essentially a safety component of this County. We do not handle population control and that's never been the case. And because Animal Control has largely been housed with nonprofit agencies with their own missions and agendas, really the scope of work has been largely convoluted. It doesn't mean that areas of need aren't legit, but it doesn't necessarily lie with Animal Control or within our budget or abilities. MS. WANA: I think one of the biggest concerns, you know, that people misunderstand is, you know they say, "Well the Humane Society, the Humane Society." Even sometimes within our government,people still refer to Animal Control as the Humane Society, including routing some documents inappropriately. The Humane Society is a nonprofit entity. They are one of our transfer partners. They still exist, and I think again, trying to clarify the misinformation that is out there as to who does what and who's required to do what? You know, under Hawaii Island Humane Society, I think they did a phenomenal job while they had the contract and, you know, they also intertwined their own missions to what was handled. They provided an abundance of services that our community has become accustomed to and now expect that the government Page 6 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 continue to hold and perform. But that's not what's required of County Code or of Animal Control. Again, we do handle the dangerous animals and intake of those animals. We are taking in as many strays as we can. When we do transfer animals to our transfer partners for adoption, we do provide them with the medical care prior to going there as well as spay and neuter for them. It was mentioned about Animal Control staff being at a spay-neuter clinic. That is correct. We did take animals to those clinics. We've taken animals to many clinics, however, we are also charged for those services. Last year alone, we spent over $350,000 in medical care for animals, which includes spay and neuter for animals leaving our services as well as medical care of animals within our facilities. MS. SERRANO: Yes, as Major Wana stated, you know, we are providing exceptional medical care for the animals coming into our facilities. This isn't a requirement of the Code. You know, having been in this quite a long time and having a history in veterinary medicine, you know, nobody wants an animal to come through the shelters and not receive lifesaving care or even preventative care. And that is something that we have implemented into our policies. You know, I've heard this many times, that Animal Control is not working the lifesaving programs. I do believe that providing our animals with anything from a leg amputation to, you know, treatment for an upper respiratory. You name it, we've done it. Inoculations. We have worked that angle as hard as we can within reasonable means of our budget so that these animals have an opportunity to go to our partners essentially turnkey. And that does include spaying and neutering. While we don't have the facilities set up to do this in-house, we have found creative ways to still alter the animals that are within our shelters through veterinary practices, different agencies that provide spay-neuter clinics. I volunteered a week ago as the anesthesia technician for a KARES (Kohala Animal Relocation and Education Service) Clinic and happened to bring a few puppies with me that we altered, and you know, the County paid for, and those animals actually were adopted just this last Saturday through a Petco event with KARES. A volunteer had picked them up and brought them to be showcased, and that's really how that works. I'm pretty proud of the fact that we can implement more medical procedures, more lifesaving procedures for animals within our care than we ever really did within this strict Animal Control budget in previous years, working in accordance with our partners so that they can then screen homes and find adopters where we might not have the ability and resources to do so. It's been a good working relationship for what we can provide right now. Perhaps that will change in the future. But for now, I think that the medical care that we provided and the training we provided our Animal Control officers to do a lot of the work in-house, Page 7 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 you know, triage work, setting catheters, giving fluids, running diagnostic tests, being able to go out into the field and provide emergency care. That wasn't something that really existed, you know, in the past under other agencies. And right now, because of the landscape of having veterinary shortages and limited staffing, we're really made the most of what we can with the people that we have. They are cross trained, both in law enforcement and essentially, you know, veterinary assistant care. MS. WANA: You know, when we talk about the community and they ask for spay-neuter clinics, Hawaii Island Humane Society did perform spay-neuter clinics under their contract. There are numerous nonprofit entities that provide these clinics, and let's be reminded that a lot of the funding, maybe not all of the funding, but there is a lot of funding that does come from the County. It may not come directly from the Animal Control budget, but it does come from other Grant-In-Aid or contingency funds for these private nonprofit entities for this public venture. We are still in communication with an entity MS. SERRANO: Good Fix is the name of that group. They come to us from off-island, but they work around the world, essentially in communities with, you know, large populations of feral or community cats. And you know, as Major stated, we are working with them and some of our current nonprofit partners here on the island, to establish at least two spay-neuter clinics for community cats starting in January and again in October. These events require a lot of coordination and efforts on the parts of our agencies and our communities. You know, these groups aim to alter at least 1,000 animals within a matter of days. So we're currently working on coordinating how that's going to all work and who's going to provide some of the volunteer resources that will be needed. Even some of the equipment required, such as bringing in, you know, mass amounts of traps for such animals. Again, this isn't necessarily a requirement of Animal Control, but we understand it's a need. I don't know if many people know this, but I've worked with a lot of different animal rescues on this island over the last 15 years, and I myself was a cat feeder of a feral cat colony for 10 years. I volunteered with a cat rescue group. I did the trapping and volunteered as the anesthesia tech and spent my own money and time feeding those animals. So, I get that component. I understand that it's important, especially to people that are not only managing those colonies, but might be overwhelmed by new cats coming in. But the fact of the matter is that Animal Control is not population control, and we are not budgeted to handle all of the feral animals, or community animals, or wildlife in terms of managing, you know, the overall numbers. But I would agree that more resources are needed in that area, and my understanding is that there are discussions as to how that might look moving forward. Page 8 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 MS. WANA: I think that's all we have. You guys have any questions at this time? MS. KIMBALL: Thank you both for being here and presenting all of this information. You know,just to my colleagues, you know, Ms. Howard, who was testifying earlier said she bugged me frequently (see Comm. 987.22). I don't think it was bugging, she made the request for a conversation, as did many others. And I'm sure you folks have heard, gotten emails and phone calls and stuff too. This is a very important issue to a large number of our community members. And for me, I always think that good dialogue, open dialogue, and transparency is really important to achieving solutions that are workable across the County, within our confines within our budget, and also, to highlight opportunities for improvement whether it's giving support to other agencies or enlisting the help of other agencies. So you know, in today's conversation—and I actually met with Major Wana and Ms. Serrano prior to the meeting today to talk about some of this. One of the things, points of clarity that I really want to make clear for all of us is that their purview is pretty specific to two things. One, dealing with dangerous dogs, so confiscating dangerous dogs; holding on to them until the cases can be adjudicated. And then confiscating animals that are in situations where they're subjected to animal cruelty. Some of the things that are not in their purview are population control, which they mentioned. The spay-neutering is not under their contract. Similarly, what we would call in technical terms, vector control, so dealing with feral animals; feral cats, feral dogs, feral pigs, feral whatever's, that is also not under their purview. So typically, those things have been funded from—and actions taken by other agencies, you know, whether it's Human Society, KARES, whatever. Well, in some cases in the past, the County budget that went to Animal Control did cover some of these things under the current contract that they have under the current budget. It's really those first two that are under their purview. We as a Council have in the past funded, even in this most recent round of Grant-In-Aid, funded some of the spay-neuter programs. And you know, so there is, as was mentioned, a stream of County funding that goes to some of these private entities that provide those services. So you know,just looking forward, and I hope that some of my colleagues have additional information to contribute here. You know, clearly the facilities are a big issue. You know, I asked what about having volunteers, and their two concerns with that, as mentioned before, a lot of these animals are confiscated because they're dangerous, so we don't want to put volunteers around them. Page 9 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 The other issue is that the facility is not actually really great to invite people into, especially the West Hawaii one. And so, you know, looking forward in terms of what we need to do. You know, looking at the capital improvements to the animal control services. Looking at ways to increase funding to nonprofit partners, whether it's through the Grant-In-Aid program or through partnerships with other funding agencies to do those other services like vector control and population control. Then I just want to highlight, you know, we know we have vacancies pretty broadly across the County right now, and that's proving challenging in a lot of different areas, but we have positions for 15 Animal Control Officers. We have four, less than a third. So you know—and Kennel Technicians, again budgeted for 14 positions, filled with five. So we are significantly short-staffed in this particular area. So that's I think another thing we as elected officials need to look at. Well, I'll yield at this time and pass it along to my colleagues. I'm sure there are lots of other questions and comments to be made. Thank you. CHR. INABA: Mahalo. Council Member Chung. MR. CHUNG: Thank you. I don't really have much to say, and I think much of the resolution of this issue, if not all of it, will be done after both myself and Maile are gone. But I just wanted to give or share some thoughts, and this is not really pointing in any particular direction. You know, I've dealt with this issue for many years, particularly when the Humane Society was the contractor, but you know, there's always been this philosophical clash between what the mission is of Animal Control. Is it absolute control or humane treatment of the animals? That's something that's going to have to be resolved, and I'm not going to give my views on that, but that's something, unequal applications of the law. That is very significant in all of this. You know, I was walking back and forth looking at the Hawaii Revised Statute, our County Code. I didn't really realize this until now, but all dogs need to be licensed and microchipped. If everybody complies with the law, I think that helps out the situation a lot, you know, for the people who are tasked with controlling animals. So I think that's the first place we have to look. I cannot confess, you know, to whether my little dog is licensed or not, but if I had to take a guess, of all the dog owners even on his panel, I bet you half have dogs that are not licensed. If I had to take a guess. So we've got to start there. And of course, you know, funding, staffing, infrastructures, those things are all going to have to come into play. You know, we really got to start enforcing this licensing requirement. I think it's very important. That's a good starting point. That's all I've got to say, thank you. CHR. INABA: Mr. Richards. Page 10 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 MR. RICHARDS: Thank you, Chair. Every time Aaron speaks, it's kind of like, EF Hutton, right? Everybody gets quiet and we listen. Aaron, to your point, the licensing and microchipping, I too agree that will help substantially. And it gets back to something Heather, you were talking about who is in charge of animal control? What are we trying to accomplish? The task is explained relatively simply, but then it's everything else that swirls around that. And that's where we start running into the challenges and the issues. Because of my other hats that I wear, I've been involved a lot with animal control over the last year-and-a-half. And to the point, the facilities in West Hawaii are in very bad shape. I can tell you being in the veterinary world for coming up on 40 years, the staff that we have that is working with animal control is outstanding. Their animal skills are excellent. The problem is,we don't have many of them. So we're over burdening that, and that was explained by the Major and Regina. I think, conceptually, we are in the right direction as far as animal control. I mean we have this relationship of taking these animals once they're in the County's control and getting them to our partner groups as quickly as possible. One thing I didn't hear that was articulated, I know the partner groups, the adoption, however you want to characterize the Humane Society's rescue groups across the nation, they're busting at the seams. There are many animals in the process right now, so we have a backlog on this, and this is part of our problem. Also, as Regina pointed out, the case animals, the ones that are being held for legal situations, whatever it may be whether it's been impounded or being held because of the owner being arrested, regardless, that takes up a huge portion of that. So as we're going forward, as we're scripting, this Council has heard a lot of the conversation of how we are trying to direct, redirect the animal control process going forward. And I can say with authority, that the group working now spends all kinds of hours, all kinds of days, weekends included dealing with a lot of the animal control issues. The reason I know this is because I get a phone call at very sorted hours about trying to deal with things. So I think we have to go through this and go forward, but what they are doing is first of all, tough, very, very tough. I agree with what Aaron said about there's some philosophical issues for our animal control, for our county. We're talking about safety and cruelty in managing that going forward. I've been, from the get-go, a big supporter of funding the spay/neuter program. But I think we're going to have to identify them and come up with a certified vendor or something like that going into our Humane Societies, all of those groups and come up with some formula that we do create that because we do need to fund that, without question. But it's in a different venue, because as Aaron stated, it was a little bit muddled on how it was between Humane Society and Page 11 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 Animal Control in the past, and now we're very distinctly separate. And I think we're still trying to get that separation well-articulated, so I think the public better understands. With that, I'm going to yield for now. Thanks, Chair. CHR. INABA: Thank you. Anyone else? Questions? Ms. Villegas, go ahead. MS. VILLEGAS: I just want to express my gratitude for the number of people who showed up to testify today. The work that you do and the attention that you pay and the resources that you so generously contribute to the lives of creatures who can't do it for themselves is wholeheartedly appreciated and recognized. The tragedy that surrounds animal cruelty is very much aligned with domestic violence and socioeconomic disparity. Also, in some cases, lack of education in considering dissentience of different beings and their purpose to just serve humans and be at our beck and call versus being a companion and a sentient being. So this issue strikes at the heart cords. I really appreciate Council Member Kimball, taking the time to put together this very informative document, which doesI also highly respect the officers there and this incredibly challenging task that they have been given and trying to navigate and mitigate issues that far surpass the funding that they've been provided. But through some of this documentation and clarification I am hopeful that people understand then where their hands are tied. I don't know if it falls within the county's purview to change Code to allow for veterinarians who aren't licensed in the State of Hawaii to be able to come here and participate or if that's stateI think that would fall to some state regulations that need to be changed, but I see added value in that, and veterinarians that are willing to come and help us mitigate this issue. You know, I also have challenges, personally and professionally with those that feed the cat colonies and don't fix them. Our bird populations are being devastated, our monk seals are being toxified. We're dealing with a lot of other invasive species that also jeopardize our native plants and creatures. So this is a really broad issue. I also recognize the difference being a dog lover and a dog owner who is licensed and chipped. There is a difference between dogs or creatures who have a capacity to be a pet, or those that may have been traumatized or brutalized to a capacity that it's not within their psychological capabilities to be a pet and are just a little too wild. So there are so many moral and value driven issues related here then there are feasible, logistical, financial responsibilities that the Police Department has been obligated to as kuleana, and my heart feels for all of you. I wish I had the solution, but I do hope that through working together and collaborating and looking at other municipalities who have identified means to move forward, that we can do that, and we utilize those templates, and we work together. Because I Page 12 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 can honestly say nobody in this room that's been part of any of this conversation today has anything but the best intentions to get us where we need to go. And unfortunately, we're decades behind. Anyway, I just wanted to say that with gratitude and acknowledge the kuleana and the challenges and also thank you, Ms. Kimball, for helping us and the community understand the parameters of responsibility that the Police Department is actually accountable to and not. So we can recognize gaps in how we fill those in. So thank you everyone for being here. I yield. CHR. INABA: Thank you. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for being here today and thank you to the members of the public who came in sometimes twice to provide testimony. Sorry, what is your position, Ms. Wana? Is it Lieutenant? MS. WANA: Major. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Major? Alright. Thank you for being here today, Major Wana. I have some questions for you regarding budget for the budget for Animal Control. In the Communication 987.47, we have it as $3.4 million? MS. WANA: That's correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. If I remember correctly, the previous nonprofits, and albeit there's a substantial difference between a county-run organization and a nonprofit organization, but the previous nonprofit that ran animal control services for Hawaii County, was running it at$1.8 million, correct? MS. WANA: $1.9 million, sir. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: $1.9 million, okay. So how much of this $3.4 million is Salary and Wages (S&W)? MS. WANA: Just under $2.3 million. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so about$2.3 million, that's just S&W alone? That's for yourself, administration? MS. WANA: No, this is only for Animal Control staff. My salary still comes out of the Police Department. This covers our Director, our Lead Kennel Technicians, our Kennel Technicians, our ACOS (Animal Control Officers), our Lead ACOS, the Shelter Managers, and the proposed Transfer Coordinator. Page 13 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. MS. WANA: And, I'm sorry, the Clerk and Account Clerk. So there are two civil service positions that are limited term appointments and those are included in this budget? So the Lieutenant and the officer that's currently assigned to Animal Control to help oversee and manage this are again, also coming out of the Police budget, not out of Animal Control's budget. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Is there going to be a shift to include salaries like your own or ones that are covered by the Police budget into the Animal Control budget? MS. WANA: No, not to my knowledge, sir. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so that leaves $1.1 million for running animal control services then? MS. WANA: That's correct, sir. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. MS. SERRANO: If I may add, you know, I think an important part of understanding the budget, especially for wages and salaries is that due to the limited amount of staff, we have our current Animal Control Officers working a huge amount of overtime. We're covering 24/7 all over this island so an average day for us is anywhere from 12 to 15 hours and then also being on-call. So that number may adjust if you have more staffing, which is something to keep in mind. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, it does note here that not all of the positions are filled. How much of the positions do we have filled right now? Rough percentage. MS. WANA: We're probably talking a third of the positions, perhaps. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. MS. SERRANO: One area we do not have listed is a dedicated dispatcher or receptionist, administrator-type position. Currently, we're utilizing, you know, both clerk and Police Officer positions that are on temporary assignment to Animal Control to answer phones, along with our after-hours dispatchers at the Police Department. I think it would greatly benefit, you know, our department and the community to have positions that are dedicated for that role. Page 14 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 We field anywhere from, at the shelters during normal business hours, 55 to 70 phone calls a day. I actually averaged the amount of time it took to get through each phone call because I'm one of the people that answers the phones. It averages about 23 minutes per call. Now many of those callers are inquiring about services for feral cats or feral pigs and others are reporting animal cruelty or other investigative matters that require lengthy amounts of time on the phone. So again, if we had a larger call-taking team, I think that would allow for the community to feel as if they're able to get through a little easier, get a call back sooner. But again, due to our staffing limitations,we do have to prioritize calls with our priority chart. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. So a third of the positions are filled. We're at$2.3 million in salary and wages. If we filled out the rest of the two-thirds of the positions available, if we're able to find staff, salary and wages would go up greatly? Or this is covering those positions? MS. WANA: This includes all of those positions, sir. So much like other county departments, it's already budgeted for and if it's not filled then it'll revert back to the county general fund. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And that cannot be transferred to the operating expenses, correct? MS. WANA: That's my understanding, it cannot be. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So that$2.3 million in salary and wages is actually not fully expended? MS. WANA: No, it's not currently expended, sir. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. How do we interact with the nonprofits? I know we greatly respect all the nonprofits that are around us, there's just a long list. Do we interact as a county with them to offer as many services to the public as possible and make sure we're covering spay and neuter clinics and shelter for animals when needed and do we actively interact? Or is there a separation between us and the nonprofits? MS. SERRANO: I'd be happy to answer that. Our working relationship with our nonprofit partners and those partners have signed an agreement with the County of Hawaii, so we do have a central MOU (Memorandum of Understanding)with them. Those are our transfer partners, and we work with them essentially to choose available dogs that are in our care to bring over to their facilities for adoption and or fostering. Our agreement with them does include altering up the animals within our care. If for some reason those animals are underage and cannot be altered at the time of which they leave,we will still cover that cost. Page 15 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 They do have the requirement to submit an invoice to the County with the animal's ID number so each animal is assigned an identification number that is tracked through our system for checks and balances. We of course cover all of the additional medical costs of getting the animal up to optimal health, including normal intake procedures such as vaccinating, deworming, defleaing, microchipping, and so forth. Additionally, we're working with our nonprofit transfer partners to essentially assist them with their space issues. I hear this a lot unfortunately, from the public that Animal Control will just euthanize the animal after 48 hours and that's actually not true at all. Our hold times for dogs are approximately 45 days and cats are about a little bit longer. The only way to achieve that, being that we are also absorbing a high number of dangerous dog cases and confiscated holds, is to allow our partners more time to hold an animal. If we can't do that in house, we've opted to utilize outside resources such as boarding facilities. So the way it works is that, you know, the partners come into our shelters every single week, throughout the week, they choose animals that they feel would be a good fit for their organization, their mission. They're even testing the animals' behavior at our facilities and if we don't have enough room to hold these animals and they're full, we've even shuffled these animals to our boarding facilities. We've essentially worked out pricing that was near or equivalent to what our cost would be if we have had the space for that. Additionally, we're also working with nonprofit transfer partners to move animals off island to the mainland. And again, those animals that are waiting flights are moved into a boarding facility and that is another lifesaving program if you will, that county has extended in coalition with our nonprofit transfer partners. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Regina. Looking over your Shelter Activity report, that is the those numbers, I was just looking for double reporting, but transferred would be to other nonprofits or other shelters? Is that right? The transferred category? MS. SERRANO: Yes, that's correct, sir. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so that's included in your total intakes, but you broke it out in the category? MS. WANA: They may not be the same animals that are in taken during that month. It may be an animal taken in the month prior. It might be just a week difference, depending on the timing of the animal coming in. So you couldn't add one plus one equals two, which drives me bonkers but it is what it is. Page 16 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Understood. Right now, as I understand it, people are supposed to call 935-3311, is that still the correct procedure? If there's something going on they need help with, regarding animals. MS. WANA: If it's a priority call, especially if it's after hours, absolutely, they can call the 935-3311 number. That's Police Dispatch that would answer their calls. We have had a bit of an interruption, but we've had somebody answering the shelter number, the 327-3558 seven days a week during business hours. This weekend we had a bit of a hiccup with manpower, but they can always call Police Dispatch. If it is a priority one call, they will contact somebody on our on-call list to get somebody to respond. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Is that a Kona number or is that the Orchidland number? MS. WANA: Which one? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The 327. MS. WANA: The 327 is answered in Orchidland now. We've ported that number over from Kona. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Then how's the shelter? The shelter in Orchidland, how is that going? MS. WANA: It is a boarding facility that we are working to harden for our purposes. It's very spacious but yet not spacious enough for what our needs are. Again,just like Kona, a lot of the kennels do not have the tops and so while we haven't had the issues that Kona has had as far as escapees, we have the propensity for animals to climb out because they are not capped. The kennels are not capped. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That would be a very agile dog, I think, to climb out of those kennels. MS. WANA: There are more of them than you believe. MS. SERRANO: These kennels were actually built with chain link and the majority of dogs we're dealing with are quite strong, you know, large, mixed breed dogs that if they really wanted to push out of those kennels, they could. You know, many of the kennels in Kona are built the same way and have been patched repeatedly over the years to the point where they're just no longer functional. Page 17 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 The facility on the east side has tons of potential. It's six acres so the land is there. We're very fortunate to have a little barn area which we've made great use of with impounding everything from cows to pigs and in between. Again though, the space is limited and it was designed as a State quarantine facility and for boarding friendly, socialized animals. We've had Public Works come out and assess both the east facility and the west facility. Additionally, we've had them view the Waimea facility, the reports returned were not great and will require a tremendous amount of investment effort to make them safe for workers but also for the public. So we are in a position of trying to continue to do operations in the most efficient and mindful way possible and minimizing risk to both staff and public that may be coming in to regain an animal. MS. WANA: To note, the East Hawaii is on water catchment, so I have never had to pray for rain or never had to have water catchment ever in my entire life, so this is a very interesting experience. We rely on water heavily out of the shelter, not just for providing water for the animals but also for cleaning purposes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It has been incredibly dry in Puna. It's very interesting. I mean the whole state is in a drought. Thank you for that information. That is helpful for me. It was obvious when we took this over it was going to be more expensive. I think there is room for improvement. And down the line, what I've always seen is the County was going to take this over and we're going to open up these facilities that are County owned, and I think that somewhere down the line, this would go back into the hands of nonprofits. That was always my gut feeling. If the County continues to hold this contract and be the provider, that's fine. But it is substantially more costly to the taxpayers when we do it in this method. But I think there is you know, as you can see today from the testimony, there's a lot of concern from the public. The amount of testimonies were huge. So definitely, a lot of questions from the community. I'm going to yield for now. Thank you for the information and for your time. Thank you, Chair. CHR. INABA: Thank you. I just want to point out that our next committee meeting starts at 1:00 and we have one more agenda item,just so we're all aware. Chair David. MS. DAVID: Thank you. I'll be really quick, I just have a couple of questions and one observation. I appreciate Council Member Kimball for bringing this forward because definitely, everyone's district has been bombarded with calls, whether it's dangerous animals, lost animals. So I really appreciate the partnership that the Police Department has with the private entity. Major Wana, you've described the facilities, I've been to the Kona one and it just breaks my heart. Is there any budget—funds in the budget for repairs for these Page 18 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 facilities? Because I'm wondering if we do have funding, I think addressing the condition of these two facilities, I think in my mind, very important because it would allow the caring of and addressing the issues that everyone is talking about. So we do have funding for that? MS. WANA: There is funding in the current budget for repairs and maintenance of facilities. Some of the problems that we run into is the scope of work is just so vast that it, I think, quickly overwhelms our very limited Department of Public Works. To be quite honest, I think a lot of the kennels in Kona probably just needs a tear down and a rebuild, and I don't think we quite have enough funding for that, not to mention permitting processes and so forth. MS. DAVID: Thank you. That would come under Department of Public Works as far as what the deconstruction or in-house, right? We don't have to go out for ? Okay. MS. WANA: Well, it depends on what the scope of work is as far as how much they're able to do. I believe there's a repair portion of it, and then what was conveyed to me was some of the more extensive repairs and fixes that need to be done might have to be included in the CIP (Capital Improvement Project) listing. MS. DAVID: I see. Portable kennels or just stand-alone kennels that are ready to go, would that be something to be considered as far as trying to fix the condition that you guys have right now? MS. WANA: Stand-alone kennels are a viable option. Part of the problem is if it's on dirt ground it's not easy to sanitize. It brings a lot of other issues with it. Dogs digging out and so forth. In our Kona facility, in the front yard, we were able to erect several kennels and we utilized other kennels to utilize as a base and basically create a cage for them. Like I said, sanitization and health standards are much harder to maintain without having a cesspool system, if you would, to take care of the waste. MS. DAVID: I'm just very overwhelmed because another thing I have to agree with, this is something that's not going to be fixed overnight. It's been developing where, in my experience with the Humane Society, it started with cats and dogs and now we have all sorts of other animals that you folks are having to be responsible for where we've never seen them before. We've got pigs on the roads, goats on roads, sheep on the road, road kills every time I go to Hilo. You know, this is, I think this is at the point where it's very concerning. It affects public safety and I just really hope that you folks can—well, Vice Chair Chung was correct, he and I will not be here, but we'll certainly will be impacted by whatever decisions the County makes on how to solve this. Page 19 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 I really appreciate, Major Wana, your efforts on trying to get a handle on this and I really thank you for all that you do, but I think the dispatcher, I can't imagine why you guys can't get people to apply for that job. But you folks have the money. My suggestion is the two important things in my mind is if you folks have funding. Do what we can to get those facilities up to, not standard because it'll never happen, and then the dispatchers. At least the community will know that when they call, they have somebody on the other end that will answer. That's my only observation and I just want to thank everybody for trying to make this work in the next term. That's all I have. I yield. CHR. INABA: Mahalo. Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Thanks. Real briefly. Although I will say, the next matter is not going to take too long, I'm hoping. Anyway, getting back to the issue of enforcement, which I think is crucial, probably one of the most important issues moving forward, if not the most important. If the animal control people is going to take this seriously, and I don't even know if we have enough staff people to do this. But if licensing is a requirement, then we have to enforce. And let's face it, these Animal Control Officers run the risk of being the most unpopular people on the Island of Hawaii, right, if they take it super seriously. And we're talking about even handed, fair application of the law, it's going to be a rough job. What I would suggest to Major Wana is maybe get a public announcement, partner with the newspapers and get the word out that if your department is so inclined you have the necessary staffing, that something like that is going to come down the pipe so everybody should be aware, and they start getting their dogs licensed and microchipped. I always thought that microchipping was an option. It's a law. It's a requirement. Anyway, that's just food for thought, and you don't have to comment on that. I really do thank the both of you for your hard work on all of this. It's a very daunting task, very difficult. Thank you. CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you. I just, briefly, I do want to give a shout out to Animal Control because I've worked with them for the last year plus, and they are working very diligently to reduce cost for the animal, the emergency care and things like that. They work very diligently to put in protocols that cuts down that cost. Anyway, I agree with what Mr. Chung had said, enforcement make very unpopular—but I think it is the right thing to do. Okay, thanks Chair, I yield. CHR. INABA: Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair, I'll be very brief. I just wanted to make one correction from Council Member Villegas' statements. The report that you folks received in your pinkie that has all of this great information was actually provided Page 20 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 by Animal Control. So they put all of this together. I don't know if Director Sako is in the room, and if not, we might have to wait until another point in time, but I seem to recall that we did pass something that had some funding for the Kona shelter, a capital improvement item. Yeah,we did. Okay, so I don't remember how much that was for, but I do think we have some funding for that larger component of it. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Just a kind of logistical question. How would someone enforce a pet owner having a license on their pet if they don't go to the vet? MS. SERRANO: Thank you, I'd like to answer that. Also in response to Councilman's Chung comment regarding enforcement of licensing and microchipping, any animal that is impounded within Animal Control is required to have that license and microchip. If that animal is redeemed, that fee that is associated with both and right there in the Code is passed along to the owner. So when that animal leaves, they are chipped, they are registered, and the license is produced by the licensing division. The owner essentially pays for this with a check or a money order. In terms of going out into the public and finding a stray animal that might not be wearing a tag, you know, enforcing that, does it happen? Yes. Does is happen with every single case? No. We're usually focused on the stray dog citation or dangerous dog citations, and of course, none of this is popular. We certainly don't get into this line of work to be liked. We do it because we care, care about the community and the animals. MS. WANA: And there is also an education component with it. Say we're responding to a situation where there's an animal that's straying consistently, you know, we'll educate the owner and try to work with them. So we're not trying to be the big, bad wolf all the time, but when it is absolutely necessary, we certainly take care of that. MS. SERRANO: You know, accountability on the public's part, it's a really important component of preventing these things from reoccurring and part of that is education and part of that is, you know, folks that have to pay a fee. You're not going to forget that and our fees are quite small. We don't mark anything up. These fees are established within the Code. But in terms of other redemption fees, that might include medical care, et cetera, it is at cost, cost to us which, you know, I work hard at negotiating with vendors to make sure that there aren't mark ups that way. But sometimes,just like getting a speeding ticket, you don't forget about that and it's a little bit painful and you don't want to do it again. Page 21 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you for clarifying that. I'm liking it also too sometimes in police work if your safety check is expired, it provides an opportunity to then look at other things with the vehicle. So in animal enforcement if there was no license or chipping, then it provides an opportunity for more interaction and looking into a case. With that, I yield. I know we're constrained on time. I'm sure we could talk about these issues all day. Thanks for your focus and attention and hard work. I yield. CHR. INABA: Thank you. Alright, real quick, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Just touching back with that time element. When we take in a dangerous dog, how long are we required to hold that dog? MS. SERRANO: It depends, each case is different. If the owner agrees to surrender the animal, then we no longer have to hold that animal as evidence. In most cases, that animal is then humanely euthanized. For cases where the owner chooses or opts not to surrender their pet, there is no timeframe. We are at the complete mercy of the court system for that. So I am holding animals for months up to a year. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This is something that I addressed when this bill came up to amend to where it is now. I had an issue with not having some sense of a timeframe in which there'd be an act so there wouldn't be an indefinite holding on our part. There is, I believe in that section, a piece that says that the owner of the animal will be responsible for cost of boarding but that would be dependent on the court case, I assume. Correct? MS. SERRANO: Correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: These court cases can last, as I understand it, for upwards of five years. MS. SERRANO: Correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. CHR. INABA: Question within Communication 987.47, I'm looking at this report and the first table is saying it's from July 2021 to June 2022, for that fiscal year it seems. Then looking at the next table, it's saying June 2022 and we're seeing similar numbers. Can you just explain the difference between these two tables? I'm not really clear because we have the same fiscal year total, but are we looking at two separate fiscal years here or maybe I'm not understanding? Page 22 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 MS. WANA: Is that the Shelter Activity reports, the one dated July 2022 and September 2022? CHR. INABA: Yes. Well, the first and the second, actually. So the July 2021 to June 2022 and then that second table. MS. WANA: Can you show that to the screen? I just want to make sure we're looking at the same document. CHR. INABA: I can't do that, I'm sorry. We don't have another computer. MS. WANA: Okay. What was presented to Council Member Kimball was the Shelter Activity reports from September 2022 and July 2022. So there should have been two separate stats that would give us a progress report as to where we were at the beginning of the fiscal year and at the current status or when we met her earlier this month. MS. SERRANO: Those Shelter Activity reports are updated on the HPD (Hawai`i Police Department) website as well. I know that many in the community has expressed concerns of the lack on intakes through our agency. This is in part, due to we do not accept healthy feral cats for the purposes of euthanasia or other feral animals, and this has been the case for quite some time, even through the last vendors. So you are going to see some changes and, you know, the actual numbers of animals that are within our care. But we tend to average approximately 200 animals a day that we're caring for within our facilities. CHR. INABA: Okay. In the informational document part,perhaps Deputy Corporation Counsel can speak to this. It says we have an open intake shelter in accordance with the Code and me reading through the Code, what part are we referring to here? Because then it says that you folks are using manage intake models, so I just want to know, is it an open intake or is it a manage intake, and what part of the Code are we specifying or acting in accordance with? MS. SERRANO: We don't know where she's at, so I'll answer this question. So per the Code, we are, by definition, an open intake shelter, meaning any unwanted animal may be turned in to the County shelter. The reality of that is that in this day and age is that we are working within limited means. It is not uncommon for shelters across the nation that are municipal shelters to be practicing a managed intake model. Additionally, many facilities are also using emergency intake models. These are not meant to be necessarily permanent placement, but they are part of the landscape of essentially having limited staffing and limited space for such animals. Page 23 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 The managed intake model was actually introduced by some of the very groups that were referenced in, I believe it was Lori's testimony. I myself had worked with many of the no-kill groups in the mainland to understand some modern ways of working with the community to prevent more animals coming into shelters that might not be able to make it back out, and even attended the intensive conferences on the mainland along with members of the Humane Society. Additionally last year, we, maybe not last year but two years ago with HRR (Hawai`i Rainbow Rangers), Best Friends Animal Sanctuary came in to help expand that model and share their consulting as well. CHR. INABA: Okay. I'm sorry, I'm going to move us along. Sorry. In terms of the reporting, in the Code right now, we're talking about quarterly reporting but it's specific to the Humane Society. So the data that you folks provided us in this communication, you said is available. Is it updated monthly on the Police website? MS. WANA: It is. CHR. INABA: Okay, and that's just Hawaiipolice. ? MS. WANA: Hawaiipolice.com. CHR. INABA: Okay. MS. WANA: It's under"Services." CHR. INABA: Okay. Just looking forward, I think we made a good cleanup with the vicious dog part that Council Member Kierkiewicz brought forward. As it's being implemented, we'll see its effects, but I think as we look forward, and I know you folks are busy, it would be helpful for you folks to provide input looking at the Code, what changes might be necessary. I'm sure one of us can work with you folks but we're kind of stuck here, and at the same time, I think we need your input with experience because you folks are the ones on the ground. I just want to make sure that the CIP projects that you have in the CIP budget right now are adequate to cover what changes and improvements are needed. I visited the shelter this Saturday with Regina and saw it for myself, but I think we all need to make sure that you folks have an idea of what is actually needed to improve and at least provide a safe and decent facility for the services we're providing right now. With that, mahalo nui to the both of you for this update and obviously, there's more conversation to go on here and we can continue to do that offline with you folks individually. So with that, there is a motion on the floor to close file on Communication 987. All those in favor,please say "aye." Page 24 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 Vote on Comm. 987: The motion to close file on Comm. 987 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Inaba—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. INABA: Mahalo again for being here, Major Wana and Regina. Moving on then to the last agenda item. Testimony on Bill 220,please. STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Bill 220. PUBLIC ON BILL 220: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Justin Arnold: Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), comment. Geoffrey Scott: Bill 220 (Comm. 1022), comment. CHR. INABA: Thank you. With that, I'm going to close public testimony on Bill 220. Mr. Clerk, Bill 220. Bill 220: AMENDS CHAPTER 14 OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY ADDING A NEW ARTICLE RELATING TO LICENSES TO CARRY CONCEALED OR UNCONCEALED FIREARMS WITHIN THE COUNTY Establishes a new article that includes Sensitive Places where the licensed carrying of a firearm would not be allowed, that the licensed carry of a firearm while intoxicated is prohibited, that upon contact with law enforcement the licensee must notify the enforcement officer of the possession of a licensed firearm and present the license for inspection, and that a license may be revoked by the Chief of Police for one year for any violation of the terms of this new article. Reference: Comm. 1022 Intr. by: Mr. Chung Postponed: October 4, 2022 (Note: There is a motion by Mr. Chung, seconded by Ms. Lee Loy, to recommend passage of Bill 220 on first reading.) Page 25 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 and Comm. 1022.1: From Council Member Aaron S. Y. Chung, dated October 3, 2022, transmitting a proposed amendment to Bill 220. ; and Comm. 1022.2: From Council Member Aaron S. Y. Chung, dated October 4, 2022, transmitting a proposed amendment to Bill 220. ; and Comm. 1022.3: From Council Member Aaron S. Y. Chung, dated October 4, 2022, transmitting a proposed amendment to Bill 220. CHR. INABA: Thank you. There is a motion on the floor. Mr. Chung, do you want to start us off on discussion? MR. CHUNG: If you guys haven't noticed already, there are three proposed amendments. I think I should first start off by saying theI wanted to thank again the Police Department, Reed Mahuna and Sylvia Wan from Corporation Counsel who came up with the original draft. I don't want to put words in the mouths of any of these individuals, but I think I can safely say that from the Police Department's perspective, they were in favor of the very first draft, I mean the thing that we have on the floor right now. But given the tenure of the discussions that were had during the last go around, it became very apparent that, with the exception of Ms. Kimball, and perhaps a few others, it might not have passed as it was originally drafted. What's your rank, Reed? Is it Major? (Note: At this time, Police Major Reed Mahuna came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. MAHUNA: Yes sir. MR. CHUNG: Major Mahuna came up with another draft, which incorporated a lot of the thoughts that were talked about during the last go around, including those from testifiers as well as Council Members. Motion to Amend: Mr. Chung moved amend Bill 220 with the contents of Comm. 1022.74. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. CHR. INABA: Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Okay. Now, if I could be given some latitude, I'm going to explain. I'm going to first tell you what Major Mahuna came up with, which is incorporated in Communication 1022.72. There's not much difference between that amendment and this one but what he came up with is contained in that communication. So I'm going to start with that, if you guys don't mind. What he Page 26 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 did, and he and I discussed this matter, we kept in"Hospitals, medical facilities, medical offices, and/or medical clinics." We left that as is. Number (2), "Schools, colleges, universities, and/or places where persons are assembled for educational, literary, or scientific purposes,"we took out"literary, or scientific." I don't know why, but we just took it out anyway, and added the clause, "except where permission is granted by the institution." So in other words, there is an avenue for people who have these weapons and they're licensed to carry, can carry in these places. The same thing goes for daycare centers, but Major Mahuna took out"playground, parks, and/or other places where children gather." I put that one back in in the communication that we are looking at right now. So that's the difference between his draft and the one we're talking about right now. Number (4), we took out"Any churches." It just says "Churches, except where permission is granted by the administrator of the church, facility, or congregation." You know, that was in response to something that Pastor Dion Maeda had expressed during the last go around. Voter service centers, I don't really care one way or the other, but we left that in. Number(6) and(7), "Places where people are assembled for an event, social gathering, rally, demonstration, or public exhibition that requires the issuance of a permit;"that was really broad. Number (7), "Bars, restaurants, and establishments that serve intoxicating beverages;"that will fall under what is now going to be (7), "Private property open to the public." So anyway, getting back to (6), Government buildings, took out"courthouses, judiciary buildings"because those are government buildings, kind of redundant. "Accompanying parking lots attached to such buildings," so that would be prohibited to—in the draft that we are looking at, I took out"accompanying parking lots attached to such buildings;"because I don't know about the laws relating to place to keep and all of that stuff, but what if a person drives all the way to the parking lot at a government building and it's now just realized that he or she is not able to take that weapon into that building. That's going to create some problems so I took that out. "Private property open to the public,"this is where we flipped this thing on its head. Like we mentioned the last time, it originally stated "except as expressly allowed pursuant to subsection (b)." What we have now is where it is conspicuously posted that public carry of firearms is not allowed because at the same time, we have to give deference to the Supreme Court decision. So whether we like it or not, we have to assume that—we have to start, I guess, by thinking that the carrying of concealed weapons, if a person has license to do so, is allowed, so we shouldn't—well, I think it's self-explanatory. Page 27 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 Subsection (b) took out number(1), "Private property where it is conspicuously posted that the public carry of firearms is allowed;" and modified things related to—added "Any person authorized to carry a firearm under the federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004, as amended." I think that's for, among other people, retired Law Enforcement personnel who comply with certain laws. So that's it. I explained what the difference was between what the department came up with and what's contained in the draft that we're currently looking at. Not much differences, but putting back"playgrounds, parks and/or other places where children gather." I just didn't want to take that out. You know, I wanted to point out one more thing, too. You know, I was just reading this Washington Post article. It was back in 2017, yeah, dated. But, you know, there's been a lot of presumptions, or statements made, about the benefits of these concealed weapons in various places as a deterrent against violence by people who have unlicensed weapons. That may or may not be true really. Statistically speaking, it shows—and that's why I had to look this thing up, yeah, there have been incidents where persons with licensed concealed weapons were able to stop violence in various places. But there are also statistics that show that even persons with licenses have caused violence. So we have to balance this. And, you know, our task is really public safety. I think we'd be negligent in our duties if we didn't even look at this matter, but we have to do it within the context of the Supreme Court decision. I also want to say that, you know, we also have to look at it in light of the sensibilities of our community. And, you know, regardless of the amount of testimony that came out against this bill, I will say it's my strong belief that the mass majority of the community would be appreciative of our efforts. That's what I think. CHR. INABA: Thank you, Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Thank you. CHR. INABA: Opening it up. We're on the amendment with the contents of Communication 1022.74. Chair David. MS. DAVID: Thank you, Chair Inaba. And I just wanted to say in reading the proposed amendments, Vice Chair Chung, I want to thank you for really embracing the discussions we had on this and bringing forward something that I'm very, very, happy and comfortable with supporting. And I will be supporting your amendment. Thank you. CHR. INABA: Mr. Richards. MR. RICHARDS: Thanks, Chair. Mr. Chung, this amendment does address my concern, and it's what you discussed when we were in Committee last time by Page 28 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 flipping it. Rather than assuming it's disallowed and allowing it you are assuming carrying of a concealed weapon license, of course, is allowed if you're prohibiting it. This wasI was traveling on behalf of the state last week. I was in Minneapolis, and they have very conspicuously demonstrated at the hotel that this facility disallows firearms. So I think that goes right in alignment with what you're talking about. One question I have with your Comm. 1022.74, and I really appreciate how you just refine your amendments going along. The one thing you talk about with the kids, and you specifically say, "or other places where children gather." Is there a list to that? Because that can be—one of the problems that we were discussing, the broad spectrum. And I get what you're driving at. I'm trying to do this very clear. I think you know where I'm coming from on this. Kids gather everywhere. So are we going to get back into the same maelstrom we were in previously? So Chair, I yield. CHR. INABA: Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Yeah. I was thinking about that myself. You know, it might be broad, but I gave it a lot of thought. If it's the will of this body to strike that from the draft, I have no problem. But at this point I'd just like to err on the side of caution for the kids already. You know, if someone wants to contest it then fine. This was actually in the original bill. But, you know, as you can see, this was a work in progress, right. MR. RICHARDS: Very much so. MR. CHUNG: But I would prefer to leave it in. But I'll leave it up to all of you. You know, we're very close. If you think it's something that needs to be taken out, then I'm not going to take any offense. MR. RICHARDS: Chair, may I respond? CHR. INABA: Yes. MR. RICHARDS: Okay. Like you said, I think we're really close. I do generally support the whole thing. My concern is I don't want to derail getting something done. And I think the push back on this would be where do kids not gather? And so I am supportive of what you're saying here. My problem is if we say where kids gather, well if you can't give me a list of where they don't gather, then I think we've fallen back to where we started. MR. CHUNG: Right. Maybe, how about this? Why don't we pass this, move the bill ahead, because we're still in Committee, and kind of think about it over the next two weeks? Page 29 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 MR. RICHARDS: This was where we're talking about striking that balance. And I would support that going forward. MR. CHUNG: Thank you. CHR. INABA: Alright. So thank you, Mr. Chung. Because I was just going to recommend, we have a solid amendment before us. You either support it or you don't. Not that we can't mess with it more in a Draft 2 form at first reading, but does anyone else have questions or comments on this amendment right now? Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: I believe Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder was CHR. INABA: Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Okay. Thank you, Chair. I'm not going to be supporting this amendment. You know, I think I made my position clear on this bill last time. But I want to go into a couple specifics. I would certainly support the amendment to Item B, on the second page; a Law Enforcement Officer, person to carry authorized firearm under federal law enforcement. That revision I'm fine with. I don't support(a)(2), allowing permission to be granted an exception through permission for schools, universities and colleges. Guns just don't belong in places of education. Similarly,places where children are, I don't support an exception there. I do understand for the churches. They are private facilities. I'm not thrilled about that, but I would accept that change. I do have concerns about excluding places where people assemble. The event that happened in Las Vegas was an outdoor assembly concert where we had a mass shooting. You know, I just have to combat the narrative that, you know, if you've got good people and guns within a facility or in a location, your mass murderers are going to think rationally and say, "Oh, I'm not going to shoot up there." They're not thinking rationally. So I do encourage you to keep that language in. Airports, I wonder if they are actually managed under federal law rather than through our jurisdiction. And I just want to respond to this idea that we have to assume allowance unless conspicuously posted. I certainly defer to Council Member Chung as the attorney to have expertise on this. However, you know, just reading a little bit about the second amendment and other cases surrounding it, the interpretation of the second amendment as a protection for individual rights only happened in 2008. It's hardly, in my mind, a fully settled law. I mean, if you look at Roe v. Wade, that was 50 years ago, and we had Supreme Court justice applicants saying that was settled law. And we saw what happened. Page 30 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 I think there's an interpretation that's associated with the mores of the time and let me give an example. There was a point in time where smoking was ubiquitous and so, you know, people kind of made the assumption that you could smoke unless there was a sign that said no smoking. But we've seen a change where more and more places have prohibited smoking. So now the presumption is you can smoke where there's a smoking sign. And so I kind of look at this the same way. If we are specifically allowing something, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't require a conspicuous upfront statement that you are allowing that particular item. I for one, as a consumer, would want to have the choice of any building I was going into knowing if the crowd that, for with certainty, that there may be folks down there with firearms. Thank you again, Council Member Chung. I won't be supporting this amendment. CHR. INABA: Thank you. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chung, for bringing forward these amendments. I support the amendments as they are. I do believe that the wording where children gather is a safety measure but is also big. And as I was taught, there's no place for vagueness in law, because it just opens doors. And so I personally looked at your Communication 1022.72, and I liked that. But I'm willing to go with the idea that we adopt this Communication 1022.74, that you brought forward today and move forward as a Council towards the further hearings and see how we want to progress from there. I think that you've done a solid job in addressing the concerns that were brought forward by the Council, but also by the public and ensuring that we are adhering to this rule change at the federal level. So I'll be supporting this amendment today. Thank you. CHR. INABA: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Ms. Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chung, for resolving the concerns that were brought forward by myself, my colleagues, members of the community. I'll be supporting the contents of Comm. 1022.74. I do think that, you know, I've gotten some emails from constituents about Number 3. Folks are concerned about that being too vague to be enforceable. So we might just want to take a closer look at that between now and first reading. And then the other piece in Number 2, I think you're missing the word "is" after "or consuming an intoxicant." Right now it reads, "Carrying firearm while intoxicating or consuming an intoxicant prohibited." I think it should read "is prohibited." Just a quick grammatical fix. Thank you, Chair. CHR. INABA: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Mr. Chung. Sorry, Ms. Lee Loy, go ahead. Page 31 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Mr. Chung, yes, I'm in support of this amendment. I think it gives the public an opportunity to take a look at this in complete context, because we have had so much conversation along with a number of amendments. And my support behind this really has a lot to do with what is very much upfront, which is the supremacy clause, that if our legislature takes action some of this will be tailored and refined. And if they don't, at least we have a nice middle ground for our county. And I think we can do more tailoring at our first reading. So thank you, Mr. Chung, for advancing this for us. I yield. CHR. INABA: Thank you, Ms. Lee Loy. Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Yeah, thank you. You know, having really listened to everyone here, particularly Ashley and Matt, I'm going to be preparing another amendment for when it gets to Council, you know, taking out that"and or other places." I mean, even I had a hard time with that at first. So there'll be an amendment relating to that. You know, I wanted to say something about this. You know, and I did ask this of Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan, because she had made a statement that all of these enumerated sensitive places were in other pieces of legislation throughout the United States. But my question to her was this; were they state laws or municipal laws? And I don't want to misstate her, but Sylvia, you did say they were State Laws, right? (Note: At this time, Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. WAN: Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan. To answer your question, Council Member Chung, as far as the basis for this particular draft of the bill, the original statutes were historical state laws. Since then there have been a number of iterations and changes as far as the way that different states have regulated firearms as well as carrying either concealed or unconcealed within communities. And since then, there has been an evolution of the statutory structure. In a number of states, they have delegated the regulation of sensitive places and or where other firearms are allowed to municipalities as well as to cities to further refine where each smaller location determines for themselves which is sensitive and which is not. So because the State of Hawaii has no regulations regarding this whatsoever, I wanted to keep to the heart of Bruen as much as possible, which was to the historical lineage within the United States as well as honoring the lineage within the State of Hawaii, which was, if you look at the State's initial statute regarding the territorial possession of dangerous weapons, it was rather restrictive and covered almost all places within the public. So that being said, the ordinance that was drafted and before the Council was drafted in mind of the United States prior history as well as trying to strike the balance necessary to allow for public carry so that it's not restrictive as to all Page 32 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 public places but still recognizes what has historically been recognized as sensitive places throughout the United States. I hope that answers your questions. MR. CHUNG: Yeah. A little bit broad, but basically though, it was framed from state laws, right? MS. WAN: Yes. Initially within the history of theagain, because Bruen requires a historical look, historically it started from the states. Yes. MR. CHUNG: No, no, but, you know, what Bruen did in my estimation, and not taking anything away from those wise people over there, but the historical analysis is not what we think it is. It's what they think it is. That's basically what it is, right? We cannot come up with our own, well historically this and that, it's them. They made up their history to come up with their decision,plain and simple, but we have to respect it already. And I do anticipate that the state will be taking this up. And perhaps they will delegate some powers to the counties. But all I know is this, based on Bruen and Heller, there are only two that they mentioned, government buildings and schools. We know we're on firm footing with respect to those two places. Every place else we're kind of just, you know, trying our best to strike a balance. So that's all I wanted to say. I really think this is a fair way of handling it. You know, it's sort of a watered-down version of what the Police Department had come up with. But I just think it strikes a fair balance, but yet protects the public interest and is in line with our community sensibilities. Thank you. CHR. INABA: Thank you, Mr. Chung. Ms. Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, I just wanted to take a moment to weigh in and express also my gratitude for Mr. Chung for you taking this issue up, and bringing it forth, and giving us an opportunity as a county and a municipality to make a statement based on our values and our priorities, and the safety of our community. You know, we recently had the first Amber Alert on this island, which was traumatizing and devastating and shocking to many of us. We have not yet had a mass shooting, and I want to ensure that we do everything in our power to make sure that that never happens here. I think that it is with wisdom that we make statements in law that identify the value systems of our municipality and our county for where firearms are appropriate and not appropriate and should never need to be used. As a child my own dad had an affinity for weapons. This tied to some of his own conspiracy theories with the world ending and what not. Being taught how to shoot an HK (Heckler& Koch) semi-automatic machine gun at seven years old in case somebody comes into your house you can protect yourself, is not okay. So the concept of arming yourself to protect yourself in that context, I don't feel is healthy or appropriate. And I see it perpetuated all too often in the dialogues and Page 33 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 the stories used to justify the carrying of firearms. You know, hunting is very different than war. I agree with Council Member. I want to move this forward and out of Committee, and I am in support of Bill 220, and of these amendments. But I also share Council Member Kimball's concerns that I don't know that they'reI can't think of a circumstance where permission is granted by an institution for a school, a college, or university. And in light of the tragedies and atrocities that have been committed in those facilities, I firmly support the strict removal of any and all firearms in those places and where children are. Humans, we are such a disappointing species in so many capacities. And I feel that we've often, to me, we're losing our privilege to utilize weapons of this capacity because the tragedies and atrocities that have been committed far outweigh yeah, it's just tragic. I was reading the news the other day as well and it was somebody speaking in Texas where the law, you know, a lot of the justifications for carrying firearms are to protect in case somebody else has a firearm. But they were speaking about every day in the news. It's gun violence and death, and tragedy, and none of those or very, very few, if any, statistically are related to cases where somebody else carrying the gun was unable to heroically save the day or put an end to the circumstance. So if we look at that and statistics that's not, it's not in my mind a viable justification, it's a very deep and traumatizing issue for a lot of people. But I just am grateful that we're having a chance to address it and reflect the value systems of our community and the desire to keep our children and the future of our county safe from harm potentially inflicted by firearms. I yield. CHR. INABA: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Alright, I want us, again, you either support the amendment or you don't at this point. And it seems like we've agreed to a certain extent that we might have further amendments next time, but I want us to move forward now. So there's a motion on the floor to amend Bill 220 with the content of Communication 1022.74. All those in favor please say "aye." Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 220 with the contents of to Amend: Comm. 1022.74 was carried by the following roll call vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Inaba—8. Noes: Committee Member Kimball — 1. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. INABA: Thank you. We are now on Bill 220, as amended, with the contents of Communication 1022.74. Mr. Chung. Page 34 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 MR. CHUNG: Yeah. And, you know, I already mentioned that I will be preparing another draft that's going to eliminate this open-ended clause and or other cases where children gather. If I'm able to specify it more then fine. If not, I'll just take it out. You know, that's following up on the concerns of Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Richards, and Ms. Kierkiewicz. And if anyone else has any ideas, you know, by all means, we want to have a good product. We don't want it watered down of course. But if anybody has ideas, you know, I'm certainly willing to take that into consideration. Or if any of you have your own amendments you want to advance, then by all means do so. But that's all I have to say. Thank you. CHR. INABA: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. There was one mention by a testifier of a library. Would this include libraries as institutions or places where persons are assembled for educational purposes? Would that be considered a library? Because that was something that was brought up by a testifier. MR. CHUNG: If you guys want me to put in libraries, I can do that too. But that's where I had a little angst on this thing. And I don't want to go too far on this, but because it's not covered by a state statute, you know, a lot of these facilities are actually state facilities too. So I don't know how to balance it. But, you know, I have no problem. I'll put in whatever you guys want me to put in, libraries, you know. And that's why it's important to have this fall back where the permission is granted by the institution. So we can actually put in more places if you guys want. I'll put in library in that Draft 2. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No. It was brought up by testimony. But I think the way that you have it right now, "except where permission is granted by the institution;"that leaves it to the institution to implement. I think that's a good catch all for the state agencies or the agencies that we don't have jurisdiction over. So I like that. And then just to get the point of,just mahalo to our Police Department and to Ms. Wan for bringing this forward and working with Mr. Chung and for giving the input from your end on what protects officers and community and having this be a really nice kind of middle ground for everyone involved. So that's it. Thank you. CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: On bill, as amended, thank you, Chair. I like the work product that's moving forward. I just wanted to take a minute to thank Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan. At our last Committee meeting I specifically asked her for the definitions and all of that historical data. She did provide that to me, but if it's something that helps this body to address all the various states statutes that she did her legislative research on, it was very enlightening to me, Page 35 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 specifically because so much of it dated as far back as like the 1800's. So I just wanted to really mahalo Sylvia Wan for her very deep dive in the legislative history of firearms and some of the prohibitions around sensitive places. And this one specifically was around how they carry. And I would encourage either my other colleagues to reach out to her or maybe this is something, Deputy Wan, if you would be willing to advance it as a communication to round out our record. As far as the legislative history I think that would also be very helpful. But with that, Chair, I yield. Thank you, Mr. Chung. CHR. INABA: Mr. Chung. MR. CHUNG: Yeah. And, you know, I really thank Ms. Lee Loy for bringing me back to that matter, because I don't want anything that I had said earlier about the Supreme Court being a final arbor of, you know, this whole historical analysis to in any way be an indication that I don't appreciate or respect all of the work that Deputy Corporation Counsel Wan. Because I told her, you know, two weeks ago that I thought this was a well-done piece of legislation. So to both her and Major Mahuna, thank you so much for all of your work on this. CHR. INABA: Alright. So we have Bill 220, as amended. I would want to see this move forward so we can have continued discussion. But I want to state now that being that the legislature and in talking to the Kona Senator and Representative that the legislature probably plans to take this. And I'm not sure that I'll support this measure all the way through, that we should actually take action. But I want us to get as best a version as we can and perhaps later, whether at first reading or second reading, hold it there to the call of the Chair to see what the state does, and we'll be ready with our tool later next year. But I just want to state that on the record now. Council Member Kimball, go ahead. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you, Chair. I just wanted to have a quick response to that comment. I think actually having us move forward is pretty critical, because if the state does do something it's not going to be implemented until June of next year. So that means we have a lot of time to wait. I think this piece of legislation, however it turns out, is a way for us to also signal to our state legislators what we as the county want to see in terms of their deliberations. So the purpose is two-fold. And for that reason and that reason alone it sounds like everybody wants to keep this moving. I will support that to keep it moving. I did have one more suggestion for Council Member Chung. With respect to the parking lots attached to such buildings, perhaps the thing to do there with respect to government buildings is not to exclude it entirely but to make clear that if they are in the vehicle in a locked box, unloaded, that's the only situation in which they could be in the government parking lot. You can imagine in the judiciary complex, for example, it might be wise to restrict that in the matter in which something could be carried in that regard. Thank you. I yield. Page 36 PRPSC-38 October 18,2022 CHR. INABA: Thank you, Council Member Kimball. There's a motion on the floor to forward Bill 220, as amended with the contents of Communication 1022.74. All those in favor please say "aye." 3 Vote on Bill 220: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 220, as amended Draft 2 to Draft 2, on first reading was carried by the following 3 (Approved) voice vote: r Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Kaneali'i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Inaba—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None, CHR. INABA: This brings us to the end of our agenda. ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 12:38 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn MENT: the meeting. Seconded by Ms. David and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Chung, David, Kdneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Richards, Villegas, and Chair Inaba—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. INABA: This meeting is adjourned at 12:38 p.m., and we will be starting the Finance Committee at 1:00 p.m. Mahalo. Approved: Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Chair (Date) Parks and Recreation and Public Safety Committee HI/tk Page 37