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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN CRCOC 2023/01/04 (2022-2024)Committee on Communications, Reports, and Council Oversight l't Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii January 4, 2023 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Communications, Reports, and ORDER: Council Oversight was called to order at 10:30 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Vice Chair Ms. Cindy Evans, Member Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Absent and Excused: Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member STATEMENTS FR C)N4 TNF PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: COMMUNI- r A TTnNc The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Statements from the Public on Agenda Item. (There were none.) The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Communications. Comm. 11: 2022 ANNUAL REPORT: REAL PROPERTY TAX BOARD OF REVIEW From Real Property Tax Board of Review Chair Nelson Harano, dated December 1, 2022, transmitting the above report pursuant to Hawaii County Code Section 19-97(e). Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 11. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. CRCOC-1 January 4, 2023 CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you. At this time, do we have a representative from the Real Property Tax Board? Okay, coming in from Kona. Aloha Lisa, thank you. (Note: At this time Real Property Tax Board of Review prior Chairperson Nelson Harano came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. HARANO: Good morning, and happy new year to all Council Members. My name is Nelson Harano, I was the past Chairperson for the Real Property Tax Board of Appeals for the year 2022. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Mr. Harano. Did you want to go ahead and share with us findings on this communication? Or did you want me to just go ahead an open up for questions from the Council? MR. HARANO: Yeah, you could open up for questions. CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay. MR. HARANO: Might be easier. CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay. Any questions from Council Members here? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much, Chair. Thank you for being here today Mr. Harano. Looking over the report looks like we had 835 appeals, is that correct? MR. HARANO: I believe so, yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Majority being from East Hawaii? MR. HARANO: I don't know, I think there was a fair mix between east and west, north and south. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Then I have the disputed amount—or of the appeals how many were approved from the office? MR. HARANO: When you say approved, what do mean by approved? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Or found to be—how many were actually appealed? MR. HARANO: All were appealed 454 from East Hawaii and 381 from West Hawaii. Page 2 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay so all of the appeals that were filed were approved, is that correct? MR. HARANO: Not necessarily, no. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: How many were? (Note: At this time Real Property Tax Administrator Lisa Miura came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. MIURA: Hi Lisa Miura, Real Property Tax. Can I clarify if you're asking if some were settled or if you're asking how many made it to the board for an actual hearing? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Lisa. Yeah, how many were settled? MS. MIURA: Okay, so Keita has the list as well. So, a total of 527 were settled. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And this was an increase from the year before, correct? MS. MIURA: Correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I think we all are very aware of how the property evaluations greatly affected our property taxes. And that's probably the reason for the appeals, correct? MS. MIURA: Correct. MR. HARANO: I second that. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. I had a lot of phone calls regarding property taxes, and I was trying to understand and work my way to the process. And I appreciate both of your time and energy and help me answer those, and the complaints from the community on property taxes. And I do hope we see some drops this year. And I saw that you guys attached some of the information from some of the appeals, and the rise in the taxes due was fairly incredible in my eyes. And I know this has been a hardship for our community. Any thoughts? MS. MIURA: Can I clarify that the attachments you're saying to the report are just the four complaints that were submitted; those complaints were either those that filed late or did not file an appeal at all. Page 3 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I know a lot of people had a hard time this year, and this is one of the hardships that we all faced. And I understand it, but I wish there was—we have to look for some solutions in the future yeah. But either way, I appreciate your time. Thank you for being here today, Ms. Miura and Mr. Harano. I yield, Chair. MR. HARANO: Yes, can I just add a few words? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes. MR. HARANO: Yeah, the valuations was I think the biggest shock to the appellants, both private citizens as well as commercial enterprises. I think it's a need, oh yeah on the westside, the biggest need it seems like its housing for residents. Yeah, you know, more resources of housing, it seems like it's being turned into short term rentals. And I think there should be more regulations, as far as short-term rentals are concerned. I know there's other municipalities across the U.S. that is starting to enforce, simply because of the complaints from the neighborhoods. And also I'd like to say in closing, that the Council or County Government needs to find other sources of revenue. Disturbing when in excess of 70 percent of the annual budget comes from Real Property Tax. So we need to find better alternatives, I think. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for that, and I do appreciate that you're one of our members of our commission. And thank you for your services as well, sir. Thank you. Chair, I yield for now. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Ms. Miura, thank you for being here. In your report you suggest a couple of legislative matters, and as the policy making body here has anyone from the department maybe Deanna engaged in some of these recommendations? One was a recommendation of the appeal fee, and then the other was the agricultural committee. Is that something, go ahead Lisa. MS. MIURA: Lisa Miura, Real Property Tax. I just want to clarify, this isn't my report, this is the Tax Board of Reviews report and they're suggestions. The tax appeal fee used to be less then when it came before Council years ago. It met a lot of controversy as to whether it should even be there, if it should be zero, if it should be more, if it should be refundable or non. So from our aspect we are not proactively trying to bring it up, and to be fair among a lot of the boards through the years. There's been quite a bit of good conversation and arguments back and forth as to whether there should be a fee at all as well, and what that should be. Page 4 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 In regards to the second item, which is the board recommends a review of the nondedicated and dedicated agricultural use. We did sit on the agricultural working review group committee for several years, and there were suggestions that was made to County Council. But, I believe there are different Council Members through the years that have looked at bringing it up, and some discussions it had and then it sort of fails away. So none of these are being actively pursued by Administration at this time. And I don't know if the Finance Director has a different thought on that? No, okay. MS. LEE LOY: Thanks Lisa. Deanna, I have a question. You know, part of our various categories we know that agricultural kind of captures a lot along with residential. Is there any direction that the Administration is going to take as far as teasing out some of the various categories within Ag and or residential as Mr. Harano mentioned? You know, we have short-term vacation rentals that are captured within the residential category. Is the Administration going to be looking at teasing out some of those? (Note: At this time Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SAKO: I think one of our challenges is having the appropriate information, to be able to distinguish. So for an official short-term vacation rental that has a permit from planning, no problem. For bed and breakfast and other types of establishments that may not be permitted, then we don't really have a way to determine that unless we go door to door. So that would be challenging to ensure that we capture everyone in their appropriate groups. Ag you know, it's highest in best use it's based on the base classification. So, you know, we're doing the best we can with the information we have. So as Lisa said, we were part of the Ag working group, and those recommendations were submitted to Council, and I don't believe any action was taken. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Thank you, Lisa. Thank you, Deanna. Thank you, Mr. Harano for your work, I really did reflect. And thank you for providing your chairpersons reflections. I think for the rest of my colleagues, I think it really does sum it up on the kind of post of community and what our real property tax is, how they are impacting us here locally. Chair, I yield. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Okay, I'm not sure who was first here, but I'll go ahead and stick to the right. Council Member Inaba. MR. INABA: I think I was last, but real quick. CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay. Page 5 CRCOC-1 January 4, 2023 MR. INABA: Just for the administrative recommendations, I know it's from the board, but how do we plan to or have you folks looked at this to see which of these are the low hanging fruit that we can implement as we move forward quickly? Sorry, Ms. Miura that was for you. MS. MIURA: That's okay. We did look at them, and we look at them each year. So some of them we already have been actively working on. I think some of the bigger ones that has come up would be item 13, because some of them are just their comments that we're presenting our cases well, but they recommend values located on the bottom of the document be there. So we've already worked with staff on all of those. And item 13 is in enforcing the petitions and the dedications on agriculture. And then it comes back to the staff saying, you know, we need more restrictions on it because right now it's very loose. And as I mentioned, I know there's been some Council Members discussion on how best to go forward on that. And 14 the board commends the division for their effort to enforce homeowner exemption and tax class. We are still pursuing to make sure that if there are properties rented for less than 180 days, that they do not get the homeowner pit nine which was quite a few of our appeals this year. And most of those did withdrawal. We had 237 appellants withdraw their appeals this year, that wasn't discussed earlier. In addition, number 18 is one that I believe several Council Members were taking lead on. Because when the STVR (Short -Term Vacation Rental) Code was written we had commented that it doesn't match what we have to do, and what is considered a STVR or a vacation rental. So there has been some action to try and correct that with the Planning Department. MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. And then I'm looking at just for our legislative matters they're very simple this time in comparison to what I think I remember in previous reports. From the division standpoint other recommendations that came previously, I don't think the Council acted too much on. Perhaps we can review that together to see which of those recommendations still stand, and update the code as necessary. But thank you so much, Mr. Harano, for your service and Ms. Miura, for the explanation. Chair, I yield. MR. HARANO: Thank you, Holeka. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Inaba. Yes. Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. And thank you, Mr. Harano, for your service and for being here. Since Council Member Lee Loy did point out your chairperson reflections, I just had a question about that, because the examples that we saw in the complaints seem to say that people were more concerned about kind of the raising of their property values than specifically about the tax rates. And in your Chairperson reflections you note that the information that you had, Page 6 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 you thought the people were more concerned about the tax rates themselves and not their property value. So, I'm just wondering since we don't have access to all of those that you did, if you can just say a little bit more about that. MR. HARANO: Well in terms of value, I think there's two values. One for property tax, and one for when they want to sell the home or the property. It's not the tax rate, but rather the large increase in the valuations that the resultant product was a higher tax, so. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you that really clarifies, that makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you so much for letting us know that. I yield. MR. HARANO: Okay, thank you. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Council Member Evans. MS. EVANS: Thank you. Aloha, I was looking at your comments and recommendations and there was number seven that stood out for me which hasn't been talked about yet, and that is about how do we inform the community about various programs that may give them relief on however we're accessing or exemptions or whatever programs are available. And I wondered if the group really drilled down on that a little bit more about how that would happen. Because clearly one of the issues we have as government is letting people know what programs and what's available to them. And I know a lot of times people will tell me they sit down at a dinner table and somehow it comes up what they're paying for taxes, and they maybe in the same neighborhood and the difference in the taxes are horrendous. They'll go, what is it, and then they start talking about dedication, and exemptions, and age. And some people were like, well I didn't know that. So how do we let people know? When we send them their annual assessment, do we put down on there like note, note, note, you may qualify for this, this, this, and list all the different opportunities? MR. HARANO: I think that would be a good idea. But I think the first step would be to have the residence or property owners let me clarify that property owners, feel like they're in a partnership with the County Government. I don't know if there is the trust factor that prevents individuals from taking that next step. Whether it's looking at the County website or talking with their council representatives. You know, whether it's maybe having one town hall once a month, once a quarter, right. All of you Council Members, go talk to your constituents. I don't know, but that something that I think would be a step in the right direction. I think you need to have trust as well as feel like they are in a partnership with government. Page 7 CRCOC-1 January 4, 2023 MS. MIURA: If I could add to that. So with every assessment notice that goes out and that goes to every owner on record with an address, there's always an insert, we even changed the colors because we noticed people were just not reading it. But it used to be blue, we changed it to yellow to get a little bit more attention. We do present to the Board of Realtor Associations, to the Chambers. And prior to covid there was a lot more meetings, we'd go to Lions Club, Rotary, I mean just whoever would let us come and speak, we would do presentations there. And it's also on our website. And I know not everybody goes to the website, but if there are other suggestions for us we'd be happy to take that into account. I think it would be good if the public read what we sent. Because it talks about agriculture, home exemptions, affordable rental, and the other programs that we have. And I'm not sure how to reach them, we even post in the newspaper. You know, we still also hear the same thing I never knew about the home exemption, even though if they've owned it for 10 or 15 years and they've gotten that assessment notice every single year. MS. EVANS: Okay. Well yeah, I just think that especially young people there first-time homeowners understanding kind of what they're getting into it does make a difference. So thank you for your comments. And I have one more thing, is there any impact on the cesspool situation, in terms of valuation? MS. MIURA: So we go by the market value and we watch how the market reacts to the values. And so we haven't seen a huge difference yet. But I am sure we will start to see it more in the values as the years go on and you see more already converted to septic and those that want to do any changes to their property requiring it to have to be converted over. We haven't seen enough examples in the sales yet, to have that impact. Commercial might be a different story, and I haven't talked to the commercial appraiser this year if she's seen any sales changes. MS. EVANS: Okay. One last question is, so your appraisers are they strictly using the for sales in the last year? You don't have to answer this right now, but I really hope that your group has looked at how the appraisers evaluate. Because there's different methods in terms of appraising and evaluating and I hope they just don't stick to sales because we have this rush of people that were coming into Waikoloa that I represent and they were offering $100,000 cash over what the asking price was because there was no inventory. And so it was pushing values up that were like crazy because of supply and demand. And I'd just be curious and hopeful that you really look at the appraisal method and reconsider how we reach that final assessment. But just a comment. MS. MIURA: Okay, you would need to change the County Code, because the County Code does have us go to market value. And supply and demand does affect the sale prices. Yes, we do look at the market. But we're happy for all new Page 8 CRCOC-1 January 4, 2023 Council Members to do a RPT 101, so we can show where in the code what we have to follow. MS. EVANS: Thank you. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Chair Member Evans. Yes, Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. And thank you for raising that question, Council Member Evans. Because I think, you know, understanding of the whole relationship between appraisals and some of the benefits that we do have. And tax rates is critical especially for new members as we're entering into tax season here. And one of those things relating to market value and the impacts that it has on property taxes is that protection, that three percent cap that we have on homeowners. So even if surrounding values go up due to sales, if they're in the homeowner's tax class already then there's that three percent cap on how much their valuation can go up, if they're in the homeowner's class. So one of the things that I wondered, you know, my district having a significant number of properties that are in the ag dedicated or non -dedicated ag programs they have the benefit of the reduced valuation of the land but they don't have that three percent cap. But your kind of making a choice, so you're either saying I'm going to have a lower value of my land because I'm going to put it in this ag program or I'm going to have the protection of the cap. And it hasn't been significant until this last year particularly. So this is a longwinded question to the Administration, did you see a significant number of these appellants actually try to want to switch to that homeowners text class so they had protection in the future? Was that something you saw at all? MS. MIURA: I wouldn't say that a lot of the appeals were based on that. Usually we talk to them and we explain how it works, we did get quite a few complaints if you will from homeowners that were doing active agriculture on their property. That felt it wasn't quite fair that they were farming and living there, but somebody who wasn't farming benefitted from the three percent cap. So I think there was a lot of frustration about that due to the increase and values. Especially on the improvement side because building cost so much more in the lastduring covid that the increases were a little bit hard for various homeowners and farmers living on their properties with three generations, maybe for the increase in their taxes because the three percent cap didn't protect them. MS. KIMBALL: Right. Thank you for bringing that up. And we've discussed that a little bit in the past, but I think that is something that Council may want to consider going forward is if they're homeowners and they're on the ag land, maybe there's some sort of cap related there. I will say that I had been working with Council Member Richards on some language around the dedicated ag, and non -dedicated ag programs he's of course moved on. So I'm hoping to work with Council Member Galimba to bring that ag perspective into what we're trying to Page 9 CRCOC-1 January 4, 2023 do, and I hope to have something shortly for you folks around that side of things. But thank you Commissioner for your work, and I'm sure it was very challenging this year. And appreciate your time and effort in that capacity. So thank you again. I yield Chair. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Chair Kimball. Anyone else? MR. HARANO: Yes, this is Nelson Harano again. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. MR. HARANO: I think this as a follow up to Council Person Evans, and in terms of the cesspool. I don't know, you know, on the west side I speak just from the west side and where I live. Honestly, I don't know how effective that cesspool credit will be. I don't believe anybody that's living outside of the beach area there's no streams or water ways here on the westside. But it's hard to come up with what 15, 20,000 for a cesspool and convert over to septic. You know, without some county help, I know there is a cesspool credit but it's only available to water waste for beach homes if I'm not mistaken. It's very difficult to get local people here to put out that kind of money, to convert over in terms of trying to convert everyone over. I think it's going to be difficult. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Mr. Harano. I definitely feel you on that, living on the west side myself, and on a piece of property that I couldn't put in septic system if I wanted to. Based on the structure of the property, and the stone, and the grade. So I feel you on that unfortunately, it's one of the challenges we're facing. With that I guess I'll just share my final comments here. And I guess what resonates with me on this report and I just want to thank again, Ms. Miura for your continued services and representation, and for you, Mr. Harano in tackling something that we're in an unprecedented time. The context of what happened in the last few years. And the worth of properties verses the value they were being assessed at and sold at was unprecedented. We were inundated with people from all over the country and the world who recognized not just our State but our Island as one of the safest places to be on the planet, during the time of a global pandemic which was taking people's lives. It unfortunately created an environment for the disparity between the one percent, and the rest of the world to be that much more highlighted. And those with cash and the ability to work from home, usually in a digital context, had a lot more flexibility and a lot more opportunity to move to places that they felt safer with their families which is good, but it displaced our families. We lost over 25,000 residents during that time. Their homes were sold, or they decided this was a time to cash out and be able to leave and buy a home somewhere else. Perhaps to not have a mortgage anymore. But the disparity that was created not only affected our workforce, which we all know we have Page 10 CRCOC-1 January 4, 2023 challenges with even here in our county government, but also, in our small businesses. I saw a real transition as this inundation of newcomers and exodus of our work force and the sales of these properties. And as was pointed out, for those of us who didn't get to—Lisa did a great presentation during the last term that went over why some of these values went up so significantly. Because it was a unprecedented time of properties and correct me if I'm wrong, Lisa but commercial and some resort properties sold, that otherwise don't actually sell very often. And so there were new values and assessed values that could be utilized in order to then assess what the values of these other properties are. I myself see, you know, we have our old school ohana's that have owned land for upwards of hundreds of years or even decades and live with multiple generations on their properties. And they're not thinking necessarily about what property values and market rates and what not are happening. But what's going on in the real estate industry was astronomical. And a lot of people made a lot of money, and a lot of people lost places to live. And there's a balance in that somewhere, but we are still trying to get back to that balance. I hope, and Mr. Harano I cherish your honest comment of saying, you know, communities trust in County Government. In government in general we are also at a unprecedent time of challenges, in trust with government and division. But you know, I feel for the tax office and the job they have to do based on the numbers and the objectives; the objective spreadsheets and the things that are written out there. One suggestion I would have, and I appreciate all the comments from my colleagues. And I look forward to moving forward, hopefully, Ms. Miura working with you on potential code adjustments. But then we look forward to how we take what we've learned during covid. And each one of us take responsibility for the properties we hold and the jobs we have, and the long-term regenerative future of our community and our lands. I'd like to see and encourage. I really appreciate it in line -item number eight. Encouraging organizations like the Board of Realtors, and the Chambers of Commerce and other organizations who are directly working with new home and property buyers, that part of that responsibility be on their shoulders to educate new homeowners and property buyers as to what our tax codes are in this county; how those relate. Ideally not to provide loopholes, but to provide authentic and adequate reflections of where they fit in based on the property or the home their buying, or the business, or whatever that's commercial or residential. But where they're authentic and accountable tax rates should be according to that and what level that's at for their kuleana to contribute to our community. So, just some ramblings of my mind as we look at the objective and subjective context of these Page 11 CRCOC-1 January 4, 2023 conversations. So with that, if no one else has any other comments, I'd like to make a motion to close file on Communication 11, all those in favor? Vote on Comm. 11: The motion to close file on Comm. 11 was carried Filed by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder Kimball, Lee Loy, and Chair Villegas — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kierkiewicz — 1. Excused: None. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you. Comm. 36: REQUESTS A DISCUSSION WITH THE ADMINISTRATION REGARDING THE CONSULTANT'S REPORT TO ASSESS THE BUILDING PERMIT PROCESS From Council Member Susan L. K. Lee Loy, dated December 13, 2022. Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 36. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. CHR. VILLEGAS: With that we have Mr. Lee Lord and Mr. Steven Pause here. I'm going to go ahead and MS. LEE LOY: Chair if I may? CHR. VILLEGAS: Yes. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. For the rest of my colleagues especially our new Council Members, I provided to you in your pink folder Communication 36.1. In an effort to help level set this conversation, contained within that packet is the contract from the Mayor's Office in which it provided a scope of services for Mr. Tinner. And what would be outlined as far as a report that would come back, a copy of Mr. Tinner's report, and then a memo from our Director of Public Works Mr. Steve Pause on the recommendations that were in the report and what the department is doing to address them. And so it's my hope actually to start with Mr. Lee Lord, to help walk us through the contract, and then hand it off to Mr. Pause, to walk us through the report and the recommendations that were made. Thank you, Chair. Mr. Lord. (Note: At this time Managing Director Lee Lord came forward to address the members of the Committee.) Page 12 CRCOC-1 January 4, 2023 MR. LORD: Mahalo. Managing Director, Lee Lord. Thank you all, and Happy New Year. Thank you, Chair Villegas. At the time this past summer, we were looking at continuing to improve the processes and outcomes for building permits. And we've made progress, but there was a lot of progress to make and continues to be a lot of progress to make. And we decided to look at getting somebody from outside, with a national and regional perspective, someone who had previously valuated and knew what was needed in different regions for insuring permitting and processes are correct and as best as they can be. It happened to be at the same time that our former Director of Public Works was leaving. And so I took off the task to finish that project, which was started by Mayor Roth also, because we did want an outside perspective. Many people have many opinions about what could make permitting process better, but we wanted somebody with the experience. So we did do a search, we went several different ways and we kept coming up with the same person, Mr. Tinner. And so we started investigating him as to his experience and then went into vetting him and looking at that. So we did end up going ahead with a contract. Basically the contract was to identify inefficiencies within the building division of the Public Works Department, that may lead to delayed intake, processing, and issuance of a building and or associated construction permits. We asked him to do things like online research or permitting, and legal information, relative to building and associated permits, as well as face to face interviews with building division, permitting staff, and a limited number of permit applicants. He did interviews with staff, between October Yd and 7h. He did staff interviews which were representative of permit clerks, inspectors, plans examiners, division managers, other departments, we also engaged in a survey monkey and asked the community to document the recommendations that we've been hearing verbally. There was very few new suggestions or concerns brought up, since they've been brought up all along. He took all of that into consideration. He came and did his site visit after lengthy research from the mainland. And we met with him, and of course as I said, met with all the staff. I had created a task plan which I shared with the County Council previously, with all the steps and what we were looking for. And with the timeline that we would have the report no later than November 15. And due to HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) regulations, I can't explain why Mr. Tinner delayed but we lost contact with Mr. Tinner because of a personal reason. But as soon as he was able to, he got us the report. All be it late, but he got us the report. So other than that, just to let you know since we got the report early December, we really haven't sat down exactly with our schedule yet. I will also be on Mr. Pause's task force for looking at the priorities, and the plan, and actionable items. Looking at what interaction we're going to need with the Page 13 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 Finance Department or possibly County Council, or what funds would come from within Public Works. As well as working with Human Resources for those things that Mr. Tinner suggested that we will be taking up. Unless anyone has any questions for me about how we got to here, I will turn it over to Mr. Pause, because he's fully embraced the whole process and has moved forward already. (Note: At this time Director of Public Works Steve Pause came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. PAUSE: Thanks Lee. Steve Pause, Director DPW (Department of Public Works). And joining me today is our Building Chief Julann Sonomura, as well as our Building Deputy Chief Kelly Wilson. From a timing standpoint both of those individuals have kind of come into their positions concurrent with launching and performing this assessment by the outside consultant. So they've been engaged from the beginning. As Lee said, the study or the assessment was initiated by the Administration. And in broad terms their scope of work was to look at inefficiencies or actually just look at ways we can get better And Jim Tinner's methods included at least the survey monkey, but also just his interviews with our clerks, our plans examiners, and our inspectors. The people that are the frontline folks that are doing permitting review, as well as construction inspection for residential and non-residential. I attempted with this correspondence to kind of break down the information from Mr. Tinner's report. Just in terms of what actionable recommendations came out of it, and I tried to supplement it as well with a number of things that maybe some of those ideas came out of conversations with Mr. Tinner. Some of them might have just been internal conversations, recommendations; things that we know we needed to be doing independent of his assessment and his recommendations. Just to highlight the conclusions, and I guess I'll start before conclusions. We found Mr. Tinner to be very engaging, very knowledgeable, good experience working in government positions. Similar as plans examining inspectors, he did a lot of fire inspections as well. I think at one point he worked for a fire department, but good knowledge based. He seemed to also have a pretty good idea with epic and inner-gov and the Tyler products that we use for our electronic permitting system. And I would just say, you know, walking through his conclusions there wasn't anything that was a terribly big surprise. Things that, you know, in the end when the report came out, were a number of ideas and a number of recommendations and conclusions that we've already discussed. He did note, just kind of going through things, that we had a lot of open positions. And that can't be any more true. I think right now our building department is barely 60 percent staffed, which is a major challenge for us. He did also note that in general based on his experience, the pay rate seems to be lower here then what he is used to. And I think a lot of Jim's experience was in the State of Washington, the northwest. He did have a large thought pattern Page 14 CRCOC-1 January 4, 2023 recommendation, on supplementing our stuff or recommending that we supplement our staff with our parry reviewers. And that's something that I'll come back to here in a bit. He noted that we could be better at written documentation policies, plans, and procedures. And that's something that we had acknowledged early on, and I'll talk a little bit about some of those steps that we're taking to improve that. But the context was to be consistent, especially in our interactions with the public. And if nothing else, allow ourselves a pathway to have a predictable application timeframe. And when I say that and we'll talk a little bit more about this, but right now if you were to ask the general public how long does it take to get a permit, you could get any number of answers. And I think, it's beholding on us to get to the point where we can communicate what a normal permit time should take. So, that was something that he noted. He made some comments about increasing review fees. So presently we charge 20 percent of the permit fee upfront with the application to perform the review. And he said in general his thoughts were that number should be more like 60 to 65 percent. It's not an additional fee, it's just getting more money up front when you begin the process. What's interesting too, and I don't remember the exact numbers, but we do have a number of permits in excess of 1,000 permits where we've approved applications and they've not been picked up. And under the old program the old permitting system pre -epic you did not have to put money upfront with your application. So we've done the review and not collected any money for it and people have not picked up their permits, which I still find a little interesting. Some other comments he made was around just improving the deployment of our internal resources, and we had a lot of discussions and it was sort of outside of concept of what you can and can't do from a union standpoint. He said that we should be focusing on the more complex applications our structural engineer, and maybe having the plans examiners do some of the lighter structural engineering reviews. He made a comment to same thing with inspectors. You know, if you got a building inspector going out for a framing rough end or where there's been some plumbing rough end done, why can't the building inspector just look at the plumbing while their there. Again, it becomes a bit more complicated, I don't think it's quite that simple but those are some of the comments that are relative to efficiency. We've spent some time talking about PV (photovoltaic) permitting, and one of his comments was why do you do a building permit for a PV insulation for roof mount. And quite frankly, the building inspector doesn't go out there climb on a ladder and go look at the roof mounts and supports and things like that. So, that was something that I think we've taken to heart and we're looking at further. He talked about something, and I've had conversations with folks, the lean process. The lean process, I think, comes out of six sigma and maybe Jack Welch. Page 15 CRCOC-1 January 4, 2023 But it's a process where you sit down in over a course of a structured several days and you look at how do you do things. What is your process map look like. And you take a serious look and say why am I doing this, is it adding value. It maybe gets rid of comments about will we do this because this is the way we've always done it. But I been involved in that in my previous life, working in the corporate world. It's a very valuable process and I won't do it justice by trying to explain it. Anybody can google it, but it's a strict way of really looking at how we do things. And I don't think it's a bad idea, the reality of how we implement it that is something that we can talk about further. Mr. Tinner also had a very good familiarity with Tyler and with EnerGov. I believe he mentioned maybe like there were 13, or 14 different government agencies that he worked with that had used it. And he says that they were well known in the world of electronic permitting, and he made statements that the pain if you will that we're feeling, is very common for a roll out. I've been involved in other software types of projects in my life, but typically it's a little bumpy. And he said that what you're experiencing is pretty much normal, that the bugs eventually get worked out. And we've had a number of hard conversations more recently with EnerGov folks, with the Tyler folks. So, I'm confident that we're on a path to fix some of the things that we've seen. He said that another challenge with rolling out something this new is acceptance. And I think I've been in front of most of you before certainly I don't want to call you old timers, but the folks that have been established here previously in Council. And we've talked about the change curve and the ability to just get past the push back and getting to acceptance. And it can be bumpy, especially for something like this. And he talked about that extensively and not just push back from the pubic, but also from the users, from our own staff and getting them comfortable. And, you know, we're a year and half into this, and there is light at the end of the tunnel. I think things are getting better in that respect. He talked about customization and it's pretty much something that he's seen all the other agencies do. He seemed to think that we might of gone a little bit overboard on some of our request for customization. So it's something he just kind of highlighted, that's something we should take a look at. But in the next breath he also mentioned that there were portions of this application that we just were not using the technology, specifically on intake. And I think you heard me talk about intake before that if we could make intake a bit more user software. In other words instead of relying on people and go from okay, here's the first part of intake, you can't go to B, until A is completely filled out properly. Whether it's your forgetting colons, and TMK (Tax Map Key) numbers and things like that. But he did stress that he really felt one of our solutions to improve the intake process was just utilize technology. It's already built in which isn't presently being used and then another one of his comments was he was a big fan of having our Building Chief and our Deputy Chief more involved with the National Page 16 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 Building Codes, The National Code Development, the IBC (The International Building Code) and the ICC (International Code Council). And he said that was pretty much the norm that he's seen in other locals where these folks really need to be more involved in setting new standards. So that in a nutshell kind of captures what most of the takeaways from his report, as well from the conversations that we've had. I've highlighted in your package, unless you want me to, I won't go through the details. But the short of it is that we've picked up on a number of the recommendations that he's made, we're working on them. I think it also kind of leads to, I tried to supplement Mr. Tinners recommendations by a number of things that our building department is presently working on. I'll highlight those for the group. Communication is a big one, and again that wasn't maybe a direct recommendation, but we all know that we can get better communicating, we all know we can do a better job of reaching out to stakeholders. Developing that predict ability that I've mentioned earlier. Meeting with the design community which we've initiated, publishing checklists that will help permit applicants in a designed community. So that when they submit applications, we can get a more complete application. And really try to cut back on the review schedule where, you know, we reject and we send back and it's got to go through this cycle. Anything that we can do to kind of improve that and take some of the time off of it. We talked about some redesign to the EPIC (Electronic Processing and Information Center) website. And one of them is to be able to put all the information that we're generating for guidance, and checklist and things like that. How do you get the information out? We'll schedule meetings with the community, but we also just have to improve our website. And make it easier for people to navigate to get some of these tools. Staffing you know, we talk about that in great detailed, but it's still on of our biggest challenges. We have initiated conversations with HR (Human Resources) to try to get some support. Just in terms of recruiting in terms of incentivizing candidates to come work here, I did reach out directly to the union and had a meeting with them. And it did not necessarily go favorably well on the first conversation, the concept of potentially bringing in third party reviewers to help us. It's something that, there are other ways to look at it. But it's something that we're going to have to go back and get a bit more creative, I think. We talked about just coming up with ways to improve and cut back down on the timing. Again, I get back to the review cycle. One of the simple things is just consistently give guidance to plans examiners, as well as the filers of the plans that design professionals when you submit changes. You know, simple things like use a cloud for what you've changed and put a delta in the title block to make it easier for our folks to be able to turn your plan reviews around quicker. So those are the Page 17 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 main things I guess that I'd cover, and then I'd be happy to answer questions because I'm sure there will be more. And if I can't answer questions, I'll be happy to have one of my colleagues behind me with far more knowledge than me to come up and answer them. Thank you. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Director Pause, and Mr. Lord. Questions from Council Members? Council Member Evans. MS. EVANS: Thank you. This is for Lee Lord. When I read this and understand all these recommendations, this is a huge amount of workload to ask of Steve Pause and his staff when they're understaffed. Have you gone through that process of prioritizing the recommendations? Do you have a couple that you're just really focused on or is still everybody wheeling with the sure magnitude? I'm reading this, I just don't know how you can do it. MR. LORD: So we are going to have to come up with a timeline and a priority list about how we're going to roll it out. Because we can't do everything first. So we have not sat down yet for our first planning meeting at all. But you're absolutely right, there's finances that are going to be needed for some of them that are going to take some long-term planning. There're some human resources changes that we'd like to do, which sometimes involves all the other counties and talking to people. So we haven't had that first meeting yet, but you're right that's what we're going to have to do and it is a big task. So, I believe we've prioritized the staffing part first. So as Steven said, "We've already started talking to Human Resources and it's on going." County wide there's some initiatives that are going to help. But then there's specific things for Public Works that we need to do just to get the staffing up, because we can't fix the system and not have the people thereto help run the system. So, we're just at the beginning phases. But Steven has and with his staff looked at some priority areas that they could start on before we got to that point. But within the first next two weeks since the new year started, we're having our planning meeting to start all of that stuff. But if Steven wants to add what you have prioritized so far. MR. PAUSE: Well the other comment I would add is, we are prioritizing as Lee said staffing. And it's attracting staff and it's retaining staff. And it's providing career paths from starting off as an Inspector I, II, III, IV. It's providing incentives for people to acquire certifications. We had one of our Electrical Inspectors go through and become ICC certified. Which is awesome except that, you know, our current HR (Human Resources) rules and policies and things don't really allow us to recognize that. So we need to work with HR to do those sorts of things. But again, it's a long-term investment and I think it starts with the people. Now some of the other things as I mentioned, it just seemed somewhat simple to us. But it ties in with one of the recommendations with documentation, and policies and procedures, and making things repeatable. But another portion of that Page 18 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 is just simple checklist and talking to the design community and say look, you know, we're not telling you how to do your job, but these are things we're looking for when you put forth a set of plans. And being able to communicate that. I think it's pretty simple, but it really hasn't been done. And to make those tools available easily, without having to search all over the place. So those are the sorts of things. And the other one I always come back to is intake. Okay, we have to make the intake simple so that it doesn't tie up so much time for our clerks, permit technicians, I guess, is what I'd like to call them. And a lot of that is as Mr. Tinner pointed out is use the tool, use the software to help you do it. And I think right now that is one of the areas that I know we do have an IT person that's dedicated our EPIC person, if you will. That is working on some of those things. MS. EVANS: The second question is when you developed the contract that went out for Mr. Tinner, did the Mayor have a working group or advisory group of contractors and people that really helped in the writing of that? MR. LORD: No, there was a few contractors that we did discuss it with, who's been giving us feedback. And then we worked with the staff in Public Works also, but we've been receiving feedback for a whole year. And so it kind of got overwhelming and admiring as to what we need to look at. So we needed to have a general plan as well as talking to Mr. Tinner about what he could provide. So when we looked at it, we looked at the priorities of where we wanted to go. And then we also asked Mr. Tinner to let us know, what he would suggest. So really it was an assessment of where we are and how we could speed up the process, to make it better for both the staff and for the people coming to get their permits. MS. EVANS: So, is today the day that it's going public and the contractors and everybody are seeing? I mean clearly people are really interested in how, I mean a lot of people is interested in what changes are coming. MR. LORD: Right. MS. EVANS: So has this gone public today, or is it out there? MR. LORD: It's out there, there's electronic copies going around. I know that there are several community events, I think it was either Waimea. But there are contractors that also have copies of it. So we're trying to put it online at this point and time, so that anyone could come and look at it to see what the recommendations are. Because we want to be as transparent as possible. So yes, we've been giving anyone that's wanted a copy, a copy and we got good feedback about it. So, the more we can share— MR. PAUSE: To add to that, the contents of the report and even the memo that I wrote with it isn't really, really, new. I mean we've been out. I've been before Page 19 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 Council I think at least twice to talk about progress on permitting. We have spoken to the West Hawaii Realtors, we spoke to back in late October the Hawaii Chamber of Commerce. I've got another one I think with the Kona folks next week, Kona Chamber of Commerce So the communication, you know, at a high level we've been including, because don't forget we first started talking to Mr. Tinner back in August, and we had a lot of conversations. And even we had a debriefing I think, he was here the first week of October? So I'm a copious note taker. So a lot of the information that he shared with us then, has been in our calculus as we're moving forward. Some of that is highlighted in my memo, but at the same time it's also the same message that we've been putting forth. Wherever we can. MS. EVANS: Thank you. Chair Villegas I have one more question, is that okay? Other question is with staffing and working with the Human Resources. So this would be for you, Lee. Do we as a County go to California, Washington State and where the engineering schools and some of these schools are and are we out there actively seeking new graduates that are coming out of school with engineering and planning degrees etcetera. How do we get out there to track these people that would come in at a lower salary, because they don't have the years of experience? So maybe our qualifications might be a barrier, that's the other kind of a side note. MR. LORD: So prior to you coming on board, the Council, our Human Resources Director, did initiate relationships with the University of Hawaii (UH) and went to several of their career days and those types of things and had some agreements over there. Looking for engineers in specific because there's several departments we have engineers, a need in all of those departments for engineers. But I think Steven has had more extensive conversations in what areas we're looking at. MR. PAUSE: It's just been a challenge. I'll give you an example. In the last year and half since I've been with DPW, we've had four entry level engineers come and go. From the mainland they come here the salary is what it is, the cost of living is what it is, and then they just turnaround and leave. I think our best success has been, I'm talking about on the engineering side, has been people that are from here, through UH, who want to be here, who has family here that has been probably the best success. But the other challenge, you know, it's not just engineers, right. It's architects, it's building inspectors. Maybe a building inspector starts off as a contractor learns a trade and works their career, and then as they get a little older the legs hurt and shoulders hurt and it's like oh gosh it's time to maybe step back from swinging your hammer and becoming an inspector, an electrician, or plumber, the same sorts of things. Those sorts of things aren't happening. And I don't have that knowledge or wisdom as to why in conversations with Page 20 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 Mr. Tinner, he points to the great recession in 2008, 2009, where it kind of broke the chain. I can't wax poetic on that, but none the less I mean there's rational reasons why that path is just not where it is. And again, it's not just money, and it's not just cost of living it's just people have changed and people do things differently. MR. LORD: And I'd like to add for a fair salary of course, and our community. One of our biggest challenges is that salaries are negotiable items and cannot be changed unless we're in open negotiations. So we negotiate with the unions as a County, with the other counties. So when we're proposing to raise the salary no matter what position we're talking about in our County, we have to get consensus and majority with the other counties to do that. So, I know there's been offers from you all to help with that process when we're going through it. But that's one of our challenges, because we're not technically in control of our own salaries and that we have to do it as a group, and it's across the State. So not all counties feel the same urgency we have at the same level that we have. So we have to work that and work with our other counties to get through that. So that's one of the big challenges around the money part. MS. EVANS: Good to know. Thank you. MR. PAUSE: If I could make one more statement, I should of brought this up earlier. You know we have great staff. The people we have work hard and we've challenged them. Yeah, we have a massive staffing shortage, but I've got inspectors, plans examiners, and building clerks working overtime. It's not sustainable, and I'm happy that they're willing to do that. But at some point, we do need to go through that process and back fill. We're going to do the best we can. And people are all kind of rallying, but it's been going on for a little bit and as I said, I don't think it's sustainable. We need to find some solutions. MS. EVANS: Okay. Thank you. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. As you're looking at these staffing issues, it just comes to mind from my personal experience that when I had my children and I'm first going back to work one of the main things I looked at is the possibility of working part-time. Fifty percent and then going to 80 percent, things like that. I'm thinking with the way the pandemic has rolled out and the way people talk about reprioritizing their work life balance, that some of these things might be more enticing to people. As we work to hopefully get some of the salaries more in line with what people expect. Could there be some possibility working with Human Resources to offer some more flexibility in schedules, based on say an 80 percent job where Page 21 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 somebody can still take their kids to school every day and pick them up every day. And be home in the late afternoon with their kid. Is that a possibility, have you talked about that at all? MR. LORD: I have not, I don't think Steven has either. MR. PAUSE: Yes, I have. MR. LORD: Okay, we're willing to put anything on the table with Human Resources. MR. PAUSE: We did meet with HR yesterday, and we've been having ongoing conversations with them. I mean you bring up an excellent point, working conditions, flexibility. I mean we do have flexibility for an eight-hour day, when people come to work when they leave for work that's something that's been built into the system. HR had drafted a work from home type of policy that is again drafted, but it's in line with what you've brought up. And it's a particular challenge for us, because building inspectors can't work from home, right, they got to go on site. And we're front facing entity, so our clerks, we need to have a minimum amount of staffing. But as you bring up, I don't think there's anything that's off the table right now. We've got to get creative. You know one of the great benefits of going to an electronic permitting system is that it's electronic, right? All of our blubbing sessions you can work from home. You know, I tell our plans examiners they can work from home anytime they want. You know, if we can work through that, you know, process through HR. But because they have jobs where they can work remotely, but again, that all has to kind of get put into policy and HR has to do that. But part of the concept of working with third party reviewers, same thing they don't have to be here in the State of Hawaii if we could progress and get down that road. But, I think we still have a ways to go. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. I yield. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Ms. Kagiwada. Yes, Chair Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. I have two questions and a comment. The first question, you know, talks a lot about staffing, and it definitely comes out as one of the key issues in both the report and your response. And I want to start by acknowledging all the staff of DPW. It is a difficult job, you're front facing to usually a lot of pissed of people. So, I appreciate it that there's a lot of hard work there. MR. PAUSE: I've not noticed that at all. Page 22 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 MS. KIMBALL: I appreciate your optimist Steve, always have. I'd love to have you kind of give an assessment. I'm hearing three different things with respect to staffing. There's the actual number of people, there is the conditions of the work environment, and then there's third maybe this—how well is the work that needs to be done balanced with the positions as they are described and set up at this point. And as Council Member Evans said, there's a lot to do here. And if there are other things, but those are the top three, I kind of heard from what you guys have been saying. If you were to prioritize those, is it bringing the bodies in the door, is it working with HR, or do you think you can address them simultaneously? MR. PAUSE: It's difficult to prioritize. I mean on the outset you say to yourself, I have empty seats, I need bodies and seats. Some of our processes from an HR standpoint are a bit antiquated. So we need to do some adjustments, and again, we just begun that process working with HR to help us. I mentioned earlier gosh this gentleman went out and got ICC certification, all on his own. We should be able to encourage people to do that, we should be able to somehow work those things into their PD's. So they get a bump, or they get some acknowledgement for that. So it's difficult to really prioritize. I mean we need live bodies; we are front facing so we have to have people to be able to respond to the public needs. We need to maybe get more efficient with our processes which you've heard me talk about, especially with respect to intake. The working conditions again it becomes a matter of making sure that we have the right job descriptions and the right positions. And that we provide opportunities to improve, to advance, you know, in a career path. And then we'd have to also, we can't just focus on getting new people we have to take care of the existing people. So retainage is important. We actually lose as many people to other departments, as we do anything else here. There's a competition between a number of the departments especially when it comes to technical people, whether it's architects, engineers, that's another challenge that we have as well. MS. KIMBALL: I'm just thinking about my own professional experience with you've got a system that needs to keep chugging, chugging, chugging and to pull time back to spend. Determining whether it's chugging, chugging, chugging in the right way or could chug, chug, a little bit more efficiently, and you wouldn't have to tweak the system as much. That effort spent on planning and evaluating process so that you're not just throwing more people or more money or whatever to a process that is maybe inefficient. As much as it can kind of be painful to do that, that's kind of my vote. I support you as the director taking some time to evaluate the process, evaluate those positions, and determine if they are appropriately described and supported to get the work done that the department is supposed to get done. So, I just wanted to let my support to spending that time on that part. Page 23 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 MR. PAUSE: And I do appreciate the support and the patience that everybody has here. It's challenging and it's not a quick fix. And part of what we're doing is painful because we're changing the way things have always been, and then part of it is we're also trying to make an investment. So that we, you know, in concert with electronic permitting system and improved processes and things that we can develop something that's going to be around and not fall apart. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah. Managing Director, you know, certainly this is something that actually has come true on some of the other departments. The other one I think about is Planning, where there's not a career ladder per se for certain people that had have a lot of time in there, but they can't elevate to the next step. So as much as we can help, I think there's a lot of us that have interest as mentioned to you. We spoke over the weekend, yesterday, we're here to help on that. The other question I had still relating to staffing director, is part of the contractor assessment. Did he speak with the employees about working conditions, and get recommendations about that detailed aspect of it? MR. PAUSE: He did speak with many, many, many employees. I think the report documents he spent time with clerks, he spent time with inspectors, and he spent times with plans examiners. I don't recall specific things that came out from the comments about working conditions. I think it was just a lot of discussion about how things are done and how things have been done, and I think he solicited their input in their thoughts about how to make things better, and I think that was part of what he was trying to reflect in his conclusions and recommendations. MS. KIMBALL: The last thing, I just had a comment about having your Chief and Deputy Chief perhaps being more involved in the International Building Code process, also want to support that. Council Member Lee Loy knows this well, but for the other new members, you know, that comes to us, we have to take it. We can make it stronger, but we can't make it weaker. And there's a lot of code that is written in there for municipalities that are not at all like ours. And so the common example that gets brought up is the single wall construction and the fact that we have to just build everything to death through a certain extent. I will tell you it's my house, my husband is an architect, we went through the whole building process it's never falling down. That thing is so over built, but we make up. So if any of you are in a hurricane, you know, come to my house it's a safe place to be. But this is one way of saying I really think that representation from our community, understanding our environment; the things that we're doing, because we got it addressed it at that very early step before it comes to the Council for decision making. Hundred percent support that effort, so I'm hoping you guys are willing to do that. But I do want to lend my support for that. Thanks Chair, I yield. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Chair Kimball. Yes, Council Member Galimba. Page 24 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 MS. GALIMBA: I just wanted to ask you about, well I support your effort to like streamline and make your organization lean and sort of build in better processes as Chair Kimball was saying, you know, it's having to get away from the daily routine. It's hard to then, you know, to make that time, but probably time well spent if we can support you in doing that. So that's sort of that aspect of it. But I wanted to sort of talk about almost like streamlining outside of the department, and specifically in my district there's very, very, many unpermitted structures. There always has been, probably always will be. But I wondered about your thoughts on how we can help people to get their buildings permitted, which probably is not a priority based on this? But it is a priority, I think, for our community. MR. PAUSE: So, thanks for that question. We've made a lot of attempts to get out there. Despite my comments earlier, we do get a few complaints and a lot of those complaints are about our permitted structures. And with our staffing shortage, I'm not making excuses, but we have to prioritize based on life safety. So maybe the person living in a burned down house might get an inspection faster than somebody complaining about their neighbor's lights being too bright. But those are the sorts of things that we're confronted with and we are as best as we can being active with respect to trying to run down issues of compliance. Trying to talk to the people there and trying to come up with a path to compliance. And then every once in a while, you get the ones that are just a bit more reticent to really cooperate. And you know, we have a process with issuing notices of violations and following up on that. I would tell you that at least since I've been around, we've tried to make it a little easier to follow-up with paperwork and work with people. Whereas the past, I think there was a bit more hesitancy to issue notices of violation. Again, it comes down to people again. You know, you may not want to share my challenges, but you know, we only have two inspectors on the Kona side now and two permit clerks. But we're working to resolve that, and we've got folks from Hilo that maybe come around the island a little further. But there's still priorities, but again it's a workflow, we'll do the best we can. MS. GALIMBA: From the other angle of you know, people who build unpermitted structures to have a place to live and like that aspect of it. And it's a difficult thing. How do we help people? Like you've kind of mentioned how do we help get to permitting their structures, which is a whole ball of wax. I think it has a lot to do with the building codes and making them perhaps less over -built and more affordable. Because I think there's a certain segment of the population that just says, it's impossible for me to afford to build a permitted structure so I'm just going to build something to live in. How do we bridge that gap? It's a difficult one. I just wanted to ask you about it. MR. PAUSE: Yeah, unfortunately I don't think I have an answer for you. We have people who I believe fund their nose at the rules on purpose, and then we Page 25 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 have other people that just don't know what the rules are, and we have other people that just need a place to live. So I'm not sure how to best address everyone of those, I guess in some respects the rules are the rules. But on the other hand, we need to be sensitive and address each of those as they come along. But I don't really know that I necessarily have a blanket answer that would help. MS. GALIMBA: I certainly don't expect you, I just really wanted to bring that up. Thanks for all your doing, it's a lot but it's good direction. So, thank you. MR. PAUSE: Thank you. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Galimba. Council Member Goro Inaba. MR. INABA: Hi, Director Pause, thank you. Just looking back on this process with this outside consultant we paid $16,000 for. As we move forward, when do think we might be able to see kind of that timeline that we talked about, as to how we're going to attack these and priorities? Because it's not really broken down necessarily by priority. Managing Director Lord? MR. LORD: Thank you for the question, Council Member Inaba. Great question. I'm hoping within two months there's going to be a lot of discussion, we have to look at what resources we do have. But as long as people have the time and the Administration there at Public Works, and from the Mayor's Office to meet there's no reason we shouldn't have initial plan within two months. Because Mr. Tinner kind of laid out what we should be doing to make it the best as possible. As well as the staff have already seen all the recommendations. Mr. Pause and his staff are well versed in what's there. You know, the low hanging fruit, and what's going to take some coordination. But to come up with the plan, I would say you should expect it within two months. MR. INABA: Okay. Council Member Lee Loy, thank you. MR. LORD: And I have to point out, that plan will have actionable items. We need to say what our expected timeline is for the different recommendations, and also who's going to take the lead on it and when it's going to get done. This isn't something that's going to sit on the shelf, it hasn't sat on the shelf since they received it at Public Works. But everything happens with an actionable plan, and we help people stay accountable with those. MR. INABA: Thank you. When did we get this report back from the consultant? MR. LORD: When did we get it? MR. INABA: Yes. Page 26 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 MR. LORD: I think it was the first week of December, or the last week of November. MR. INABA: Okay. MR. LORD: I don't think on this copy there's a date. MR. PAUSE: Yeah, I don't recall, but that sounds about right. MR. INABA: Okay. And maybe just a last statement regarding Council Member Kagiwada's recommendation, perhaps we can look into that not just within DPW but across the board. Because there's a lot of people who don't want to work nine to five, but who might be looking. I know very capable and skilled folks that could help fill those pukas across our County. So, perhaps Director Leopoldino can check into that. Thank you so much Chair, I yield. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you so much, Council Member. Yes, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair Villegas. Thank you, gentlemen for the kind of overview of what we have in front of us. First question scope of the contract, what is scope of the contract for him? I mean it's seems very clear, but I want to make sure that I got it right. MR. LORD: To identify the inefficiencies within the building division of the Public Works Department that may lead to delayed intake processing, issuancing of building and or associated construction permits. So we've asked them to look at whatever it is in the department or with the adjoining departments that are involved also to improve it for the public, and to help our staff do the best job they can with the resources they need. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And did the contract go out to bid? MR. LORD: No. We found a gentleman who, we had no other opportunities for somebody with a national or regional experience that he's had in reviewing. So we went with the sole source. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Was there any feedback from the staff on these findings? Because I heard feedback from, and I'm not saying you're not staff. I'm just saying a lot of these folks in the department that he interviewed and he talked to, he had his interview processed and he came to you folks with his report. But did the staff get a chance to look at his report and come back with yeah, that makes sense, no it doesn't make sense this makes sense more sense in this area? Page 27 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 MR. PAUSE: So his findings were shared with staff, but there wasn't a draft cycle. I think that's what you're saying. So we didn't give the staff a copy of the report, and ask them to comment or make statements or review it and then give it back to Mr. Tinner. We just pretty much got one summary report from him. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I think that would be helpful. I mean a lot of his comments were how the process could be streamlined, how staff interactions could be better, how our review process of the entire permitting system could be better. And who better to ask, than the folks who do it every single day. That's a thought I'm having from reading this. MR. PAUSE: I agree with you. Thank you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And then on the backside of all of that, I'm looking this over I mean this has been a problem for decades, yeah. And you inherited it, we all inherited it. We get a lot, I mean a good maybe 20 percent of the phone calls I get are regarding building permit processes, inspections, whatever it might be. We know it's a problem. And some of the findings in here are things that I've heard Council Members on this Council say. I've heard people in the design professional groups that I've interacted with say, I mean these are not new things that I'm hearing. So I'm glad that we have a plan, I'm glad we're looking at how we're going to implement what has been found. But a lot of these we know already. In a very nice way, I'm saying we know some of this, it's just time to get it done. And I know we have a two month—we'll get an action plan together. I'd rather see you guys just do it. If it's not something that requires a code change, and you could internally just crack em and get it done. And then we can move on and make this better. MR. PAUSE: I agree with you. I think the simple stuff is as I talked about the process changes and maybe some tweaks to the software on the intake side. Things that we can do within our own control. It's a bit more difficult when we start going into the realm of HR and changing position descriptions and maybe creating those career paths and renumerating people for advancing their certifications and things like that, that becomes a bit more challenging but non the less I mean we just have to lay it out in front of us and get going. I agree with you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. One thing that worried me is, this is in his report I believe this is from Tinner himself. In part of his report, I'm just going to quote it, "I've worked with several jurisdictions that have implemented EnerGov, and there's some ensuing issues." Yeah, just a lot of complaints across multiple jurisdictions regarding Tyler and EnerGov as being efficient, cost effective. And I know we're moving, it's done. But I'm worried that we may have implemented a system that other jurisdictions find difficult to use or causes more Page 28 CRCOC-1 January 4, 2023 problems than it fixes. That may not be helpful at all, but that's what I'm getting from his report. Sorry, here it is right here, I was looking too low in the document. Tyler's EnerGov is known in the building permit industry as being particularly problematic. That was, quote -unquote his words. And from what I've seen so far, it seems like it has been for us. I know it supposed to streamline things, but it sounds like this is problematic in other areas as well. MR. PAUSE: Well, there's two things that came out of this. One of it and I'm not sure if he made this statement in his report, or if it's in my notes from our debrief which they have a tendency to over promise and under deliver over sell and under deliver, okay. And that was very clear his opinion based on the number of systems that he's familiar with. In our case, I'm not quite sure that applies as much as the fact that we had our fair share of hiccups and stumbles with them. We had one recently where we had a difficulty getting them to respond to us. And Lee's absence yesterday we did have a, if you will a come to Jesus meeting with an executive at Tyler, and he hears us loud and clear. He will be our account rep now until April, May, when we get some of the little things that we want fixed. So yeah, I don't want to make excuses for them. but yeah, it's never—we're a year and half in, right, the bumps. There's a whole lot less, like when you talk about our tickets, right. When we have a problem with the software we submit a ticket, and the number of tickets has gone down. I mean exponentially from the beginning of the year there was 140 the first quarter, and I think the last quarter was like 30. So they're getting better, we're getting more accustomed to it. But yeah, rolling out new software is never painless. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Not at all. One thing that stands out to me in this report, is his break down of our PV permitting system. And one note that I saw was really, and I'm from the industry yeah. So I'm looking at his note and it says that the building permit for a PV system, seems like it's more of a push to take in permit fees then a matter of usefulness given the license professionals, who are in the background of these documents. I thought that was very interesting. Because I remember when it was just an electrical permit to get a PV system approved. Then it moved to a building permit required, as well, and then a whole ensuing process began, which has been difficult. And I understand there's reasons why, but I'm wondering is that one of the recommendations that you're taking on as being fruitful from this report? MR. PAUSE: Yes. I mentioned that earlier in my opening statement, that we're taking a hard look at PV permitting. I know especially in the beginning it was a really big hold-up, so we really got better at like cranking out permits and getting done faster. But I think this is another level of something to contemplate, you Page 29 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 know, moving forward. As I mentioned, why are we issuing a building permit for roof top mounted system, when the inspector doesn't come out and get up on the roof. I mean yeah, we're definitely looking at that. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Latitude Chair, if I could? CHR. VILLEGAS: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: There's a follow-up on that question. The reasoning for it in his report was the weight per square foot was so small for most systems that are coming into the County. About 95 percent of the PV systems, it's all according to this report, that it almost doesn't make sense to have the building permit for those systems. So not so much is the building inspector getting on the roof, because we leave a ladder and rope for them at every single job. I'm hoping they get on the roof. But are we burdening the industry with excessive permits, just as a matter of collecting a fee. That was what I got from this report. MR. PAUSE: Yeah, I don't know the answer to that. It doesn't seem like, I'm following up the real property tax people. But it doesn't seem like we're that desperate for money for an additional fee. I don't think that there would be any calculated attempt to get more money out of it. I think it's just a matter of like us maybe not being as efficient as we should be, when it comes to interrupting the rules and going forward with permitting. MR. KANEALI'I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. That comment really stood out to me, maybe because of my background. But I would like to see some movement on that end. We push for sustainability, green energy, renewable, as a state, this is one of the big steps. This is an area of particular concern to me, and if we can make that better and easier, let's do it. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. VILLEGAS: Fantastic. Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Yes, Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. I got stink looks already, it's close to lunch. So I'll make this quick. Mr. Lord, go ahead. MR. LORD: And before we finish it, I just want to make one comment. What you don't see in the report and which I think is very important, is when working with the staff through all this, the Administration and the direct staff of Public Works is their belief and knowledge, and the fact that everything we're doing in permit affects people's lives. There is people who are building houses out there who are renting homes at high cost while they're looking at the mortgage coming down for their new home, and want to get this done as soon as possible. There are also contractors out there with 20 and 40 workers, who need the permit to keep their 20 and 40 workers getting paychecks for their families at home. So Page 30 CRCOC-1 January 4, 2023 seeing that when I'm working the staff is very heartwarming but it also points out how much they care about what's in the community. And how important it is we get this right, and we move forward with what we're doing. That's not in the report, but that's one of the things I've learned much more through this process. Thanks for letting me share that. MS. LEE LOY: Thanks. I think Mr. Pause touched upon it too. We have a stack of probably 1,000 permits waiting to get picked up. So if there's any contractors out there looking to keep their 20 to 40 employees employed, they should contact the building division and see what permits are available. I promise I'll make this short. And I really just mahalo my colleagues, for really asking the question about how to make this actionable. You know, I wrote on my notes here how do we eat the elephant. And so I also want to mahalo, Mr. Inaba, for really pushing on when we can get kind of a prioritized list. And you said two months, which I calculated right into our budget timeline. And then we also heard a lot of conversation about pay, pay scales, ladders, and steps. And just as a thought for Mr. Pause, and you Mr. Lord. If you could dovetail that prioritized list to be reflective in the department's budget to show the actionable resources going into making this report work. I think would go real efficient, because we have one Council Member going just do em, just do em. I think that's where the rubber will meet the road is in the budget. And I'm generally concerned about the latter and getting our respective plumbers, and electricians certified. We just went through an entire code overhaul. And we know that cycle is three years. And so the sooner we can get them certified, the longer they'll have to utilize the code. Because in 2020, we just passed 2021, we're going to go through a code update. And so all of our plan checkers, our inspectors, our plumbers, our electricians are going to have to learn another code and then enforce it. And so I just wanted to put that all out there, on how we dovetail and electrify. Not only this plan, but the resources and the process get it efficient. Because the communication prior to this was how do we create more tax revenue, and for me it's new construction. It's going to be new construction if we want to create more tax space. So thank you, gentlemen, for being here. Julan, Kelly, thank you so much for being here. I look forward to March and that budget cycle coming up. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you. And with that just in closing real fast. I want to thank both of you gentlemen for being here. I wanted to start off Mr. Pause by thanking you for recognizing, you know, with the comments from Council Member Galimba. And honoring the sensitive differences and circumstances when it comes to permitted and unpermitted structures. In my district you know, I've have had lots of conversations about some landowners who build what they want, Page 31 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 do what they want, make as much money as they want off of it and just defy permitting. And that's for profit, personal gain. And I think directly And then you have those who are just looking to build a shelter, probably something like what I grew up in, in South Kona. Which is just that a shelter, for yourself or your family to be able to stay dry and safe and out of the elements. And as we continue to navigate those differences and those discrepancies. I think more highlighted now, because of the disparity between our one percent and the rest of us. It's a really interesting time for how we utilize sensitivity in doing so. I also want to recognize the synchronicity and the opportunity here, while this list is so long and some of these challenges are so severe. I really like what Council Member Lee Loy said about the potential with our salary commission coming online, and the recognition of how far behind we may be. Inadequate pay for these roles and positions, that synchronicity for how we can find those permit technicians. And I really appreciate it, also, Council Member Kagiwada's comments about getting creative with what these jobs entail. As we continue to move further and further into a digital age and the flexibilities. And one of the things we highlighted in our last Council meeting we had a luncheon for the Commission on the Status of Women. And how that affects our workforce so tremendously and what a instrumental part. And yet being a mother and having been a single mom, and now being a grandmother. And helping my daughter who works full-time, just how we balance those things. So I am really hopeful that HR can help with some of that, and we can solve some of our problems as a County by being forward thinking, and inclusive and flexible. I also wanted to quickly say, is Robin, okay? Aloha to Robin. MR. PAUSE: Yeah, she's doing better. CHR. VILLEGAS: Oh, fantastic. MR. PAUSE: Hope to see her in another couple of weeks. CHR. VILLEGAS: Fantastic. Well just sending all of our aloha out to you, Robin, and hope you continue to feel better. You know, in the prior terms of my service, I had attended some of the meetings with the Kona Kohala Chamber of Commerce permitting task force, and one of things then continually brought up was, this third -party plan review services. I think there's some synchronicity there too with this opportunity for digital and doing. I understand as with a number of the other cutting-edge technologies or opportunities, we'd like to utilize within our County for wastewater and what not. We're having issues with the unions and their parameters, which I understand protecting their staff and employees. So I just am thinking, it just popped into my mind something for a timeframe of some kind of emergency proclamation Page 32 CRCOC-I January 4, 2023 potentially from the Mayor's Office, which allows for some catch up and clean up. To provide some support for your staff as we get new staffed trained and online and what not. So just a brainstorming idea. Not sure if it's possible or legal, or what not. Perhaps there is, within very defined parameters. If you know me, you know, I'm not one to say rubber stamp any and all buildings, or developments or what not. Because we are already inundated. And my district is at capacity, without further infrastructure improvements or projects that are authentically workforce housing related. I look forward in the next two months seeing the prioritization. I am very grateful as I look through the comments to see the things you've already taken into consideration that you've already implemented. I see after having endured myself in the last term, the code updates and the ICC, and the IRC, and the CC, and the make me crazy. That have sending some of your staff members to those trainings, I think is a worthwhile investment, in order for us to not be behind the eight ball, as we continue to move forward. So thank you for this report. Thank you for moving forward. I look forward to hearing and learning more. I also want to personally say that I appreciate your inspectors. They work very hard, and very diligently and they are very passionate. I've had great working relationships with them. My one last question is, it's one of the dances we get to do between DPW and Planning. But where is Planning in this process, and where is Planning and do we get to have a consultation for improving on their participation side of things with the EPIC system? Or is it the case as what's been stated that their kuleana is completely covered as far as EPIC and the balls are dropping elsewhere? MR. LORD: We have been currently meeting for quite a while, since we started EPIC. I forget what's it's called, the coordinator or the leading meeting. MR. PAUSE: So we have something called the steer committee, and we meet every two weeks. And we have Planning, DPW, IT, and then there's a gentleman from west side Tom Leonard participates in that as well. But as we kick off the new year, we've put a little bit more structure into those meetings. But I can say that, you know, Planning has their set of issues, we have our set of issues. We share the same software, right? I would say that like when you're looking at a global upgrade to the software, you know, they got an IT person, we've got an IT person, and everybody kind of coordinates. But in terms of like the nitty gritty of like some of our issues with process and intake and things like that, I would suggest that they're separate from Planning. And I wouldn't tell you that I have the knowledge of what some of issues that you may have with them or some of their hiccups as well. So that would probably be best discussed directly with them. Page 33 CRCOC-1 January 4, 2023 MR. LORD: My guess is everything we're looking at on that committee will be passed by Planning anyway so they'd know everything we're going through. And if there is something, we work very well together with Planning and Public Works. Works excellent so I'm not too worried but I understand the concern. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, I appreciate that and recognize that need for synchronicity. Because having had some issues in past where they just kind of get bounced back, I got bounced back and forth between departments under a different Administration. It was a little bit challenging to understand where the buck stopped. So I appreciate all of your comments. I also want to recognize in any industry, sales job is to sell their product. And sometimes people who are really good in sales, are really good at stretching the capacity. But then unfortunately when it lands to those who have to execute, it becomes unfair and overly burdensome. So I get that, and how that may have happened with this new system. But thank you for your endurance, and your continued commitment to getting us up to speed. And hopefully 2023 will be the year of some lava flows, and global pandemics, and massive storms, and we'll have some opportunity to flow smoothly, literally. Alright, thank you. MR. LORD: Thank you. CHR. VILLEGAS: And with that all those in favor? Vote on Comm. 36: The motion to close file on Comm. 36 was carried Filed by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder Kimball, Lee Loy, and Chair Villegas — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kierkiewicz — 1. Excused: None. CHR. VILLEGAS: May I have a motion to adjourn? ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 12:23 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder Kimball, Lee Loy, and Chair Villegas — 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Kierkiewicz — 1. Excused: None. Page 34 CRCOC—i CHR. VILLEGAS : We are adjourned. Approved: Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair Communications, Reports, and Council Oversight Committee RV/rk January 4, 2023 �' Itgt / � -3, ate Page 35