HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PCPLUD 2023/01/24 (2022-2024) Policy Committee on
Planning, Land Use, and Development
2nd Session
West Hawaii Civic Center
74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A
Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
January 24, 2023
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Policy Committee on Planning, Land Use, and
ORDER: Development was called to order at 1:00 p.m., in the Council Chambers,
Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Vice Chair
Ms. Cindy Evans, Member
Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member
Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.)
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Clerk, if we could please take up the item on our
agenda, Bill 194.
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances.
PCPLUD-2 January 24,2023
Bill 194: AMENDS CHAPTER 25 ARTICLE 2, DIVISION 4, SECTION 25-2-44, OF
(2020-2022) THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED),
RELATED TO CONDITIONS ON CHANGE OF ZONE
Clarifies that the Planning Director may not extend the time allowed to satisfy
conditions within a change of zone ordinance unless specifically authorized by
the County Council.
Reference: Comm. 898
Intr. by: Mr. Inaba
Referred to Planning Director
and Planning Commissions: August 16, 2022
Postponed: January 5, 2023
(Note: There is a motion by Mr. Inaba, seconded by Ms. David, to
recommend passage of Bill 194 on first reading.)
; and
Comm. 898.11: From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated November 7, 2022, transmitting for
Council's consideration and action, the Windward and Leeward Planning
Commissions' letters and enclosures.
; and
Comm. 898.12: From Planning Director Zendo Kern, dated November 14, 2022, transmitting the
transcripts from the Leeward Planning Commission's October 20, 2022, meeting.
; and
Comm. 898.20: From Council Member Holeka Goro Inaba, dated January 18, 2023, transmitting
a proposed amendment to Bill 194.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. And I just want to acknowledge
that we have our Planning Director Zendo Kern and Deputy Director Jeff Darrow
joining us in Hilo Chambers. Thank you, gentlemen, we appreciate your
presence. Mr. Inaba, you have the floor, please kick off discussion.
MR. INABA: Thank you, Chair. In our board today, we have Communication
No. 898.20, and this is an amendment that was put together based on our
discussion at first reading in Hilo for Planning Committee. So, at this time, I'd
like to make a motion to amend Bill 194 with the contents of Communication
No. 898.20
Motion to Amend: Mr. Inaba moved to amend Bill 194 with the contents
of Comm. 898.20. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Inaba.
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MR. INABA: Thank you, Chair. Based on that discussion in Hilo, I did to kind
of walk our way through this amendment. So starting in Subsection (c), actually
in Subsection (b), I readded the language that said, "unless the Council authorizes
the changes or alterations to be made by the director." So initially, that former
discussion we had, I removed that, but we're going to leave that just in case there
are certain circumstances or conditions that we do want to grant the director, you
know, the authority to make certain changes or alterations without having to come
back to us. So, that was readded.
Now, the meat of this amendment before us, is Subsection (c), and I heard loud
and clear, the concern of not being able to grant any time extensions where other
conditions might be altered by another Council down the road.
So, what is being proposed in this amendment is the ability for an applicant to
come and get a time extension. That time extension, however, is granted by the
Council via resolution, and this helps to preserve the integrity and the original
intent of the original rezoning ordinance. So, a future Council can't come in and
say, "hey let's look at Condition (c), and say, no, you have to build this road
20 feet wider than what the original goal was."
So, this allows for public input, and the only time the Council should be granting
a time extension is when, again, those same circumstances that the Planning
Department currently uses, that being unforeseen circumstances; circumstances
outside the control of the applicant, that it wouldn't be contrary to the General
Plan; wouldn't be contrary to original reasons for the original rezoning.
We couldn't grant a period longer than the original. So, if an applicant only needs
one more year, there's just one condition that needs to be completed. It's up to
the Council at that time, and based on the request we receive, we really shouldn't
be granting a ten-year extension if there's just, you know, one tiny piece left to
the puzzle needing completion.
If you look at Subsection (c) (5), it makes it very clear that an applicant needing a
time extension needs to put that request in to the department prior to the
expiration of the original rezoning ordinance. So, if the applicant does not, say
it's five years they've been granted, they need to come in before year-five is up.
They can't come in at year-six or year-seven asking the Council for a time
extension.
Also, thanks to our department and Council Member Lee Loy, we increased the
filing fee to $500, to be kind of in-line with other requests of that type in this
Chapter. So, happy to hear any questions or concerns my colleagues might have,
but this was the attempt to allow for time extensions for unforeseen
circumstances, yet having that be a public process.
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Being that this body is the original granter of the rezoning ordinance, we should
be the one to review it, if in fact, there are those conditions, or those unforeseen
circumstances requiring a time extension. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Any questions or comments?
Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. This is for Planning Director. So, if this passes, when
people come in to ask for an initial time period for building out their project, do
you think this will have an effect of it going for maybe 10 years or 15 years, for
example, and would that be allowed? I mean, I don't know enough currently, to
know if you can go up to 15 years. But, if you could go up to 15 years and that's
allowed, would that become maybe the new norm?
(Note: At this time, Planning Director Zendo Kern and Deputy Director
Jeff Darrow came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. KERN: Aloha, Zendo Kern, Planning Director here in Hilo. Thank you for
the question. The timing on within any of those conditions can be adjusted.
We've seen in certain cases, maybe there's no timing condition. So, as I
mentioned at the previous hearing, there are may applications that a longer time
period may work; there are some that no time period may be needed. The
condition is dynamic, and it can be adjusted pretty much in whatever way is
workable and usable for the project. Does that answer your question?
MS. EVANS: So, it kind of does. So, if this passes, would there be a change in
the way we do business today?
MR. KERN: If this passes, I think there would be a change in how business is
done. I think it would create a lot more uncertainty for somebody who's going
through the process that's already very uncertain. When they go through and get
their approval, we'll look at a timing that would possibly be longer than we have
our initial timing done now, which is consistent with what Council Member Inaba
was talking about prior. Like, you know, he was saying if it's 10 years, let's
make it 10 years. So, it would be taking that approach. But, as I also said,
depending on what kind of will is of the Council, we can have that, you know,
condition pretty consistent with what that is.
MS. EVANS: Okay, I have another question but I'll wait. Hopefully, there's
more discussion. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member Evans, do you yield? Okay, great.
Thank you. Anyone else? Chair Kimball.
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MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. Director and Deputy,just, if you can delve
into your thoughts on this proposed amendment? Then, I just had a procedural
question for either you or for the Clerk, as to whether or not this is significantly
different enough from what was presented to the Planning commissions, that it
would have to be referred back or can we proceed forward at this point?
MR. KERN: Thank you, Council Member for the question. So overall, my
feeling is that this isn't necessary because right now the Council does have the
ability to adjust these conditions to be dynamic, and we can really cover a lot of
this. There are additional concerns about additional processing, red tape, and
procedure. That's concerning when we are in need of housing; when we're in
need of good projects, and that's for us to vet out on the onset of those.
When Hawaii County is on top of the list from the UHERO (University of
Hawaii Economic Research Organization)report on the most restrictive; the most
hardest to work with; the most onerous process. I don't think that's moving in the
direction that we want. That's my personal opinion and as a Planning Director,
that I think that the way it is now allows us to make the conditions whatever they
should be in collaboration with the Planning Department and the County Council.
I believe that it is substantial enough. This is very, very different than what was
originally proposed, but that's my opinion. I would like to hand it over to Deputy
Director Jeff Darrow for his, you know, opinion and insight on this, as he has
worked on these applications for many, many years.
MR. DARROW: Thank you, Zendo. Aloha, Committee Chair and Members of
the Planning Committee. You know, we've taken a good look at the proposed
language, and we have a couple concerns. Number one is whether or not in
regards to this process, that it's circumventing the County Charter in regards to
the duties and functions of the Windward and Leeward Planning Commissions.
Under Section 6-7.5, Subsection (3), one of their duties and functions is to,
"Review proposed subdivision and zoning ordinances and amendments thereto
and transmit such ordinances with recommendations thereon through the Mayor
to the Council for consideration and action." It's just a concern. We realize that
this particular process is using something that is different. That is, an applicant
would submit a request, and it would be approved through resolution. So, another
question in regards to legality is whether or not a resolution can be used in that
manner as far as changing an ordinance or extending a time of an ordinance.
The other concern that we had, there's some, you know, areas that if this does
move forward, we'd want to adjust as far as sections in the code. But when it
comes to process, we're trying to figure out the process of how this would even
work in the sense that, you know again, we talk about how it works on the
ground.
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So, an applicant receives an ordinance, it has a timeframe. The initial extension is
requested. It appears that it would have to come into the Planning Department.
From there it is unclear. Does the Planning Department provide a
recommendation? Do they do a background report and a recommendation? Do
they provide all the information of the criteria to the Council for the criteria listed
for an initial time extension? Does it go to the planning commissions? Does it
not go to the planning commissions? Again, is it approved by changing the
ordinance or through a resolution? Again, those are some of the concerns we
have with the proposed language moving forward. Thank you.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Director and Deputy. Director, I'm sorry I didn't
say so before, but I hope you're feeling better.
MR. KERN: Thank you, 95.
MS. KIMBALL: Oh, good. My follow-up question then to you both would be,
you know, how many time extensions are we granting on a quarterly basis at this
point?
MR. KERN: I don't have the exact number, but I haven't signed anything this
year, but it's very minimal. Most of them that we see are the ones that ultimately
have lost all their time and are stale and have come back through the entire
process. But very few administrative time extensions.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay. Mr. Clerk, can you weigh in on, if you don't mind,
whether or not this is different enough that it would have to be referred back, or
are we okay moving forward under the rules?
MR. HENRICKS: The County Code is silent on what would occur if a bill that's
already come through the commission and Director is changed. It just talks about
referring the bill to the director and commissions prior to first reading, and that
has been done.
MS. KIMBALL: Great. Thank you. I'm just finally—Council Member Inaba, I
want to thank you for really listening to everybody on this committee and making
some significant adjustments to the language, which I think really clarify your
intent. It definitelyI feel heard, so thank you. Just wanted to ask, so you had
somebody from Corp. Counsel working with you on this, and did you talk about
the legal issue that the Deputy raised at all? Then, after that, I'll yield Chair.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Mr. Inaba.
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MR. INABA: Yes, I did work with Corporation Counsel Strance, the County
Clerk, and others in LRB (Legislative Research Branch), regarding because the
resolution doesn't amend the original ordinance. But if we're putting into code
now, that resolution can grant the extension, then it's possible. But if you'd like
to hear directly from Corporation Counsel, we can do that.
Again, we went with this resolution route to preserve the integrity of the original
rezoning ordinance. If not, if someone comes in at year-five for a time extension
and we're only doing it as an amendment to the original bill, the whole original
bill is fair game for further amendments, which is not what we necessarily want
here. We want to only be able to grant them additional time to meet the original
conditions of the rezone.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. I yield, Chair. Mahalo.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Just real quick, I like
what you brought before us, and I like that you've done so much balancing
between what the Council said and what the department has said what
Corporation Counsel is looking for. You have a good product, and I think it's
ready to go to Council. I'll be supporting this today.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Anyone else? Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. When I read this, there's one thing that's not in here
that concerns me, and that is what is considered when a developer or someone is
working on the conditions. Let's say they get 80 percent of them done, and they
just need the last 20 percent. There's nothing, no language or no consideration in
here for how much the person has actually done to achieve the conditions of the
ordinance. It's missing and I would love to hear your opinion on that.
MR. INABA: Council Member Evans is that a question for the department?
MS. EVANS: I'm sorry, for the department.
MR. KERN: If I understand the question right, as the way it's written right now,
there is no provision to take into account how much work was done, how many
conditions were done, how much investment has been made. The way it's
written, that would be at the purview of the Council.
MS. EVANS: So, to me that's the thing that's missing that concerns me because I
don't want this to be kind of a red flag for someone who wants to develop
property, and then they see that maybe if they worked very diligently, but
somehow something happens and they only get 80 percent of it done; and they ask
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for an extension to finish the last 20. Then we have this uncertainty that we're
putting in this language. I have concerns on that. Do you want to comment on
that?
MR. KERN: I do believe it will affect applicants and how comfortable they are
with making the investments and going through the process, because they get
something pulled at the last minute. It could also be additionally politicized
potentially. It makes it very challenging. We see that now. We do not see a lot
of projects going on. We see a lot of projects that are trying to figure out how to
make them work. So, I think having more uncertainty creates additional
challenges to solve the problems that we need from housing to economics. And
this creates another level of uncertainty.
MS. EVANS: Okay, so, I was doing some research in State law that looked at
how we give the Department of Land and Natural Resources (DLNR) the ability
to do time extensions. And one idea that didn't show up here, but might work, is
they or the board or department gives the Administrator the ability to do an
extension times-certain. So, what they said is, you have the ability to extend but
you can't do it—let's say, in this particular section of the law, it was two years.
So, if they came back to you and say, "we want to grant the extension." They
said, "okay, Administrator, you can do it based on what you know, but you can
only do it up to two years." After that, all bets are off. You have to go to the
Chair of the DLNR Board; you have to go back through the process with the
Chair of the DLNR Board; if you're going to do what they would call another
extension on an extension. So, that's not here, so there's not ability for you to use
your personal judgement, as an Administrator saying, well, based on what I know,
I have the authority to give you up to two years, let's say. After that all bets are
off. You will have to go, you know, back to the board and through the process.
That's not in here as an interim. What do you think of that idea?
MR. KERN: Well, actually that is exactly how it has been administered for
probably as long as I've been alive where there's an initial time given. Let's say
five years in this case or in the case that you mentioned of DLNR, the two years.
The administrative time extension that is approved by ordinance in the rezoning
only gives the department the ability to extend for the same period that was
originally granted. So, if it was for five years, you could only be admin time
extension for an additional five years and only one time. If it was two years, then
it's only for the two years and only one time.
Once that one time is up, as you say, all bets are off. The zoning ordinance is
stale as we call it, and it needs to go through the entire process again. It comes
back through the Planning Department. We do a full review for concurrency, and
then look at it again, you know, all the plans. Then it goes back to the appropriate
planning commission and back up to the County Council for approval or
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non-approval. So, the way you explained the process is the way that we've
currently been doing it. This takes that ability away.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member
Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: You may or may not have this. But, could you give me an
estimate of how many stale ordinances there are?
MR. KERN: That's a good question. I don't actually have that data right here.
I'd say that there's a good number of those, probably more that I would say than
having an admin time extension. Because again, we get very few admin time
extensions each year. Anyone that's stale, again, has to come through the entire
process. I know that there's a number in Kona; maybe a couple in the Waikoloa
area. They're around.
MS. GALIMBA: So, like less than 100, more than 12?
MR. KERN: I wouldn't be doing a service to give a number on that. I can try do
some digging though, and see what we can come up with.
MS. GALIMBA: That would be great as well as those that would be eligible for
administrative time extensions.
MR. KERN: So, I touched base with my program manager on the admin time
extension, and on average we might see like three to five in a year.
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Director, I'm just not quite understanding
this, so help me, sorry. Why are you saying that this would be more uncertain? Is
that because currently, if people ask for an admin time extension, they're virtually
guaranteed one, so they're certain of it orI mean, I don't understand why it's
more uncertainty than it is currently.
MR. KERN: Because, generally speaking, if the applicant meets the criteria, and
they can show that that criteria is there, then you know, it's granted and they can
keep moving forward with the project.
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As soon as you take in another public hearing side of it. No offense because
we're all in politics to some degree, but you bring the political element in there.
Anytime you bring a political element in there, you're going to have uncertainty
even if it's meeting the criteria.
Just as we've seen prior applications and meet all the criteria that would be suited
for a project, but still wasn't voted in favor of when it was voted down. So, I
think when you have an applicant looking at it or a landowner from seeing that
and having the political element adds a huge level of uncertainty versus working
with the department. Hey, here's what I've done; here's what we've shown to be
able to do it. Then move forward with that.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, so currently if they meet the criteria, they basically
know they're going to get the time extension. Is that what you're saying?
MR. KERN: Yeah, if they meet the criteria, the time extension is granted.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you for clarifying that. I yield.
MR. KERN: No problem.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Ms. Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: I suppose, I'd just like a little bit of clarification,
Director Kern, when you talk about political and then your example, it kind of
seemed to imply that, you know, the voting is based on political whether or not a
project goes through or gets that time extension.
MR. KERN: I think anytime you're in front of a body, there's politics in it. And
if you're in front of a body for an approval—come again?
MS. VILLEGAS: I said, the definition of politics is the science of government.
So, I supposed I'm a little confused, you know, having the challenging role of
sitting up here, and it's our job as elected officials voted into office by the
members of our constituency and our districts. Our job is then to make decisions
based on the information we have at hand for the greatest good of the people and
the place that we represent.
The challenge I see with allowing for most commonly—and thanks for your
question, Council Member Kagiwada. It does point out the difference. It's
almost just a given that you would get an administrative time extension, which
allows a certain amount of comfort and security. But a decade, which is the
norm; a five-year period and then an additional five years. A decade is a long
time.
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What we are navigating as representatives of our districts and in this tumultuous
time of constant change. I know in my district we are having perpetual flooding
episodes in corridors that weren't known to flood,but every 100 years.
Sometimes a lot of dynamic change is happening, and we look at, you know
potential for a property to go from five years to ten years. That puts us in a whole
other decade which also changes those circumstances. I feel, for myself, and this
is why I'll be supporting this legislation.
Thank you, Mr. Inaba for going back and really diving deep into the nitty-gritty,
as it relates to this legislation. I don't think that it should just be a given, and as
we look at ranges of capacity in our communities based on infrastructure
restrictions, I think we really have to get down to the nitty-gritty and make sure
we aren't moving things forward as a guarantee.
Historically, the instances of prospecting and developments; buying large lots of
property for relatively inexpensive and banking on, you know, theoretically
building things, but they end up selling it at massive profit margins. The
community doesn't get what we need, and those things are still on the books. I
suppose to me, three to five administrative time extensions a year is kind of a lot.
So, those are just kind of my views on that and with the challenges of being in a
position of leadership and government. Politics is the science of government.
We're in a constant dynamic hot seat of representing our constituents and the
Administration as well. So, thank you for listening to my musings here and help
in clarifying a little bit on this, but I will be supporting this legislation today.
Mahalo.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Anyone else? Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I'm going to go back to my discussion about what the
DLNR does with extensions. It just seems tome that what we're missing is a
little bit more guidance on you making decisions about extensions. So you know,
it's one thing that someone is in at five years and comes back maybe two years.
But it's another thing when someone has it for ten years and comes back and asks
for ten years.
So, I think that there's kind of a rub going on right now about, you know, how
long do we really give the person to develop something before it's really
unreasonable? That, you know, somehow this is just an unreasonable request, and
without the guidance to you as the Planning Director, it seems more subjective;
like personal versus like guiding decisions on what it would take for you say,
"yes." As a matter of fact, it should be an extended base because it's met this bar
so to speak that we've said, if you meet these conditions, bam, bam, bam. Of
course, they should get an extension. So, it says to me that what we have right
now isn't working, but I must say, as it's written right now, I can't support this
language as written. So, thank you, I yield.
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Council Member
Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. To respond to what seems to be unclear language,
numbers (1)through(4)under Subsection (c) come directly from the language
that the Planning Department currently uses in each bill for a change of zone. The
only difference here is the addition of number(5),which says, "the applicant
needs to come and request the time extension prior to the expiration." Because
right now, we have applicants coming in after the five years are up, and then
we're granting them up to whatever your 10 was going to be.
So, it's really for the Council to determine. I don't think there are any parameters
or framework that we could apply that would be universal to any change of zone
ordinance. So, what we look at is, if an applicant comes forth to the Council
saying, I've met Conditions A through Y, and Z is the only one I didn't complete.
I originally had five years, I'm asking for five years. That would be for that
Council at the time to determine does Condition Z really need five years, or is the
resolution amended and you get two years to complete Condition Z?
I just don't see, however, where we can put a framework that is all encompassing
on whether an application say, meets the 80 percent check-off mark, and yes,
we're going to give them the extension, or no, we're not. Right now, however,
these determinations are being made outside the public purview by the
department. We don't know who has gotten administrative time extensions and
for what reason.
So, the point of putting it in this resolution format is that nine people on the
Council will evaluate the progress of the conditions being met and so see, is the
request for a time extension realistic, and were attempts made to meet the
conditions in the original timeframe? If they were, then it's more than fair to
grant the time extension.
In the public process and there's a resolution tying it to the original rezoning
ordinance. Right now, there's no record of anything, except record between the
Planning Department with a letter to the applicant, saying "you have another five
years." But doesn't get tied to our rezoning ordinances in our recordkeeping. So,
if we go to look at something, we won't know. It seems like it's expired, but they
could have gotten an extension. I don't think that's good transparency for
government, not even for private landownership.
So again, this makes it very clear and it brings the authority of granting time
extensions to the Council who is the body in charge of the original granting of a
change of zone. Chair, I yield.
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Council Member Galimba, did you have
your light on?
MS. GALIMBA: I guess I think there's a part of this that I really appreciate. I
guess the part that I'm a little worried about is that, I think that there's all kinds of
change of zone requests, and some of them are for large projects and some of
them are for really small projects. You know,just like a couple of acres and very
appropriate. It might be someone that doesn't have a lot of money to come back
to it, you know, get a consultant and go back to this whole process.
They are actually doing things that are helpful for their community as far as
providing more housing for their rural community by subdividing. So, that's
something that is a little troubling for me about it. We'd be creating especially
more friction for someone like that. So, that's just something perhaps to think
about in this process. I think there is definitely some room for more—on the
extension process, I would agree with you on that. So, those are my thoughts.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, you yield?
MS. GALIMBA: Yes.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, Chair Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. Listening to the conversation, I have a
question that's sort of philosophical, I guess. What is our purpose when we
originally set up a zoning ordinance and established these requirements, these
conditions of putting a time on it at all. It's not to give the developers a deadline
to complete the requirements that we're giving them. I mean, in your mind, what
is the purpose of the timeline at all?
MR. KERN: My understanding is that, you know, the purpose of having the
timeline is as you say, is to try to push things to keep them going, right, if you're
going to be in here you're going to take up that space; you're going to use that
infrastructure; you're going to, you know, take up those water units. Let's keep it
moving forward. So, those time conditions generally, you know,push towards
that. But I would say that what we've seen is, that hasn't been consistent. We've
seen many that have been stale, many that have—that just didn't work. So, the
concept around that is to—for folks to take action.
MS. KIMBALL: So, how much padding. I mean, is the fault of these timelines
not being accurate actually the process or is it maybe the inappropriate setting of
the timeline in the first place with the ordinance and not anticipating the need for
some potential padding? Or I mean, there's always uncertainty, right? They hit a
lava tube, things are going to change, right, but maybe is the process prior to the
ordinance even being passed for the rezone initially? Is that potentially where we
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need to look for better alignment between the timeline that is required and what is
possible?
MR. KERN: It's possible that padding has been that admin time extension. What
happens, though, after a rezoning is approved, that really begins the process of an
entire new project, right, of possibly having to go through SHPD (State Historic
Preservation Division), DPW (Department of Public Works), etcetera. So, there's
all these agency types of reviews that can take a long time.
There's economics, there's supply chain, things happen. When they do, there
needs to be additional time put on that. So, you know, when we're looking at it
we can try to broaden that out and try to look into the crystal ball and see what
happens and see something like COVID coming down the line that changes
everything, or another recession or the great recession and try to look at those
things and anticipate those, as well as delays from agency review and their
processes. But, there's no science to that, and historically, it looked like the five
and five, the overall ten has worked for quite a number; and then for quite a
number it hasn't. On other larger projects, it's been, you know, more years, like
ten years.
MS. KIMBALL: I mean, I guess just in my own thinking, I'd actually like to see
the administrative extension process not be the mechanism to produce that
padding, but that's actually included in the initial estimate at the time in some
way or form. I guess a greater investment up front and predicting what that time
might be, and I realize it's not possible all the time.
I do appreciate what Council Member Galimba said about there being a lot of
variability in both the types of projects as well as the times that they're associate
with. There are five-year projects, there are 20-year projects. I'm amenable to
some standardized extension by the Administration, like a two-year extension
regardless of what the initial timeline is. But I do like this proposal of Council
Member Inaba to give the Council an opportunity to just have a public
conversation about what's going on with the project.
I think of the resolution solution because it doesn't require that revisit to the
planning commissions, but it's just a public hearing before Council. So, it
wouldn't be too burdensome in my mind. I like the idea of that opportunity to
have conversations about why things may have stalled out.
I have faith in my current colleagues and my future colleagues that they would be
able to deliberate rationally and make reasonable decisions. Now, you may think
that they but do think that the Council serves up the best which is to provide
public input under current circumstances.
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So, I'm going to support this going forward today, but I'm willing to have a
conversation about, you know, a short administrative time extension that's not
just the doubling of the original time. Thank you, Chair. I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks Chair. Thanks, Mr. Inaba for adding in the $500. I think
that's one piece that's consistent throughout the entire Zoning Code. Having had
a little bit of experience in this area, I can appreciate all of the comments and
questions that are being asked by my colleagues in this very dynamic situation.
I'm going to ask a couple of kind of rapid-fire questions to hopefully maybe bring
a little bit of clarity. Director or Deputy Director, when the Council passes a
change of zone ordinance, does that zoning effect translate to the collection of real
property tax? So, for example, if it went from Ag to Commercial, does their next
real property tax bill reflect a Commercial designation whereby the tax rate
changes?
MR. KERN: Yes, Council Member. If not the next one, then the one right after
that. But yes, it is taxed on the zoning that it has. Same for a special permit. For
example, there was one that was approved by Council in Pahoa a while back, but
it originally had a special permit for a medical facility. Once that special permit
was issued, they were taxed at a Commercial rate for ten years, even though they
didn't build anything. Then they came through and got the rezoning to establish it
to be entirely Commercial, and they were continually taxed at that Commercial
rate.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you for that. I think Ms. Kimball kind of really focused
on what I touched upon at our last meeting—was the realistic timelines attached
to these projects? I tried a little bit to ask that question. Do we have any
information, data, or evidence of the realistic timeline of dong what would be a
condition of approval, a subdivision application? Do we have that, Deputy
Director or Director?
MR. KERN: We have guesses on what it should be for an approval . But again,
it's a lot of uncertainty, and I wouldn't feel comfortable saying it's guaranteed "x"
amount of years. You know,permits take a certain period of time sometimes. I
was in here a few years back, and at one point it was held up at SHPD for six
years.
You know, we've seen things that are way outside of our control. So, we try to
within that kind of ten-year range. You would think you'd be able to get
everything complete from a permitting standpoint,but you also through
economics and other factors in there as well.
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MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Director. This question is for Judge Strance. Judge
Strance, you know, very out-of-the-box thinking this resolution process. I have a
question around that because this seems to deviate from kind of an expected
process. We heard the Director and Deputy Director kind of discuss that, and
Mr. Inaba, I know has worked with you. I just wanted to understand the
mechanics of that, because it does take it into a political realm. So, I wanted to
hear from you, Judge Strance about that kind of next layer or deviation from a
process adding in this resolution in front of the Council for a time extension.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. STRANCE: Good afternoon, Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. I
guess, what I would start with is going back to Chair Kimball's question, and it's
kind of the extensile crisis of why are we here? So, we're really talking about a
policy matter here. As a matter of policy, what is going to be delegated authority
and what is going to be retained authority?
So,just to contextualize this a little bit more. The bill grew out of a bill that came
up last session where the language of the bill was, no extensions unless it's
allowed by the ordinance, and the Planning Department was fine with that.
Because, as a standard practice, there's a provision in the zoning ordinance
changes that delegates that administrative authority to the Planning Director to
grant a specific period of time.
So, the next part was Council Member Inaba was intending that the Planning
Director not have authority to grant administrative extensions of time. So, at the
last meeting, there were concerns raised about the length of time it would take to
take a time extension request through the commission process. So, my
understanding is that Council Member Inaba heard that concern, and it wasn't an
intention to delay a process for a time extension.
I believe that the number used was up to 18 months for something like that, and
that the stalling out of a project for time extension wasn't what was intended. So,
these amendments are intended to shorten that process by an administrative time
extension process by resolution.
I think, you know, questions have been raised about ordinance versus resolution.
I think we need to rethink about that, but you know, right now there's an
administrative extension granted; the department doesn't need—it doesn't
constitute a change in the ordinance. So, if there were, for example, a provision
in a change of zone ordinance that says, extensions of time will be granted
pursuant to whatever the new code number is, and that would insert that new
process into the zoning review process.
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PCPLUD-2 January 24,2023
You know, this really is a policy consideration. You know, my understanding is
that the provisions in Subsection (c) are provisions that are currently used. If
there's not and there's uncertainty, you can change "may"to "shall."
I guess instead of imposing that criteria on it you can leave it open. Those are
matters of policy. I think Council Member Inaba wanted to make sure that the
criteria that is currently being used, is codified, so that you're not setting up a new
process. But I do think that it really does come down as a matter of policy. What
does this Council want to retain, and whether this Council is willing to delegate.
That's really the conversation that I think you folks are having.
If there are statistics that need to be looked at, then you should ask for them, so
that you can review them. Another group of statistics if you're going to look at
them, you might also want to look at the number of times and what percentage of
time does this body deny zoning ordinance amendments when developers are
coming in after that extended period of time. But as I say, the questions that
you're asking and the discussion that you're having right now are really less about
the "why"than they are about policy.
MS. LEE LOY: Judge Strance,just one other question, and Ms. Evans spoke
about it. You know, through this resolution I think they got 80 percent done. I
know Ms. Kimball has a lot of faith in future Councils, but things do get very
political. Would there be a potential for a takings challenge where they had
satisfied 80 percent of their conditions of approval and came before a body; then
denied them their time, when they've invested all of the costs associated to
complete the project to 80 percent and a future Council said, "sorry, no." Would
we open ourselves to liability for a possible takings issue?
MS. STRANCE: Yeah, I mean those would be discussions that you folks would
have to have about whether and at what point in a process are there vested rights.
So, the zoning change in and of itself is just permission to use land for a different
reason than it currently is. Then it's conditioned upon certain things, but as it
normally appears to be associated with a development process, which has its own
process.
So, when you're talking about, oh they need two more years just to finish a
manini piece of the project or something like that, you know, I would expect that
at that late stage of a development, you would have vested rights and taking
concerns that if this body passes something like this, it would have to think
about—in the same way that it has to think about that in other zoning ordinance
requests that come before this body where that extended period of time has
already passed.
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PCPLUD-2 January 24,2023
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Judge Strance. So, I like what Mr. Inaba is doing,
but I also want to give the ability to stop the clock when it's not on the applicant.
Oftentimes, these change of zone applications have to go through agency review,
and they take a long time. It's not the applicant's fault, which walks back to, if
they need more time, give them all the time up front. I'd like to see a balance
between time and a check-in to make sure that they're getting it done rather than
just sitting and getting it done.
I can move this forward right now. I'm going to let Mr. Inaba know, I'm going to
be advancing something along what we talked about at our last meeting, where if
the applicant is in good faith trying to satisfy their conditions of approval and an
agency is delayed; a review from Department of Transportation is delayed;
SHPD. There are so many uncertain timelines. We're hearing from our Director
and Deputy Director that they too can't get their arms around it. It shouldn't be
the fault of the applicant.
We have one Council Member who's very concerned about people just buying it
and flipping it. Yeah there is that, but I also want to honor the people who are
trying to get it done to provide the infrastructure, housing, parks, traffic lights,
curb-cutter-sidewalks that create community. I think that's the real balance that
we're after, because some of the infrastructure dollars that we need is going to get
tied to some of these projects.
I sat here for a long time now,just my time on the Council and before this. It's a
complex and dynamic situation. There's times where, yes, an applicant is failing.
But another time when they're trying their best, and they're just running into
roadblocks, not the fault of their own.
So, Mr. Inaba, happy to support this right now. I will be advancing legislation
around stopping the clock, which gives more tools to everybody in this process
whether it's small two-acre, three-acre to the complex 1,000-lot subdivision. I
think that's how we really help create certainty for everybody who's getting into
this process. Chair, I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Council Member Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. I just want to chime in real quick on—we've had a
conceptual discussion about the point of rezonings and conditions. Conditions are
what the Planning Commission and the Council put on rezonings based on the
impact of the rezonings. So, if there's no impact, rationally there shouldn't be a
lot of conditions being imposed on an applicant. But, conditions imposed on an
applicant comes because the zoning or the use of the property changes.
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PCPLUD-2 January 24,2023
So, there's going to be a greater impact on the community, and it's our job to
make sure that those conditions we imposed there's a rational access, and it is
proportional to what the impact is. That's what our job is as a Council, as a
Planning Department, to make sure that the change of use, based on the change of
zone is balanced out if you owe with conditions. The time conditions are put in to
ensure that these, whether it be a new road, gets put in because if not, the existing
infrastructure is going to be overused. That's the point of conditions and the time
association with these conditions.
So, I just want us to think about the reason why we have the time element. It's
because there is an impact, and we need to counter the impact of what the
applicant is going to do with the property. Again,just wanted to point that out,
because that's kind of the meat of rezones and the conditions that come along
with them. Thank you, Chair, I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah, wow, we've gone deep diving and around and included
all other kinds of issues in this. In all the different ways that it might affect by
creating policy. It often does. I suppose to me, the purpose of this legislation, to
just break it all down, this potential change is removing the power from the
Administration, and essentially from the Director of Planning, to without real
checks and balances from the Council a grant, a time extension to a project.
Anytime you remove power from the Administrative branch, and you bring it
back in some capacity to the legislative branch, I can see how that's going to
ruffle feathers and cause concerns.
I suppose to me I see the areas of vulnerability. You know, this goes beyond the
property owner or their projects, this goes more to who gets to make the decision
when that time expires? I very much like the part of this legislation that requires
that these property owners, if they are working so hard on their projects, they will
know when their deadlines are, and they will come and file for an extension
whether or not, be it an administrative extension or it does end up having to go
through this process. But, they'll stop letting things expire. It's just an assumed
norm that they can let things expire and that exceptions will be made for them to
eventually get time of extensions. Whether or not administratively or going
through the process.
To me, I feel like the areas of vulnerability forI suppose I don't have the same
concerns, and I hear what you're saying, Council Member Lee Loy about those
incredible people that are working on projects and doing their best to get them
built and it's taking a long time because of agencies outside of their control. I
have faith in us as a Council, that should they need to come back to us and plead
that case, then by all means timing extensions would be granted by the Council.
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PCPLUD-2 January 24,2023
However, I think it's also relevant to point out that when they come back to the
Council, the representative of that district gets to chime in on that extension, as
does the community, which opens up an arena of vulnerability. Because
sometimes in a broader government and in any organization of humans, there's
collateral damage, and there is greatest best outcome. And sometimes disregard
for accidentally, the people that live in the district who are directly affected by a
potential development, or the progress, or lack thereof, or experiences with that.
I guess for me I just want to go down to the bottom of it, which is passing
something like this, removes a certain power from the Administrative branch and
from the Director of Planning and brings it to the Council. Then after a timing
extension expires, the people that want to do the project have to come back in
front of the public. And then in a public place, continue to get approval to move
forward with what they are doing. Not to me, is the value system behind all this.
So, I understand why it's going to be not something that the Department of
Planning would necessarily want to see transition.
In my experience from what I've heard from many of my constituents, it is why,
and there have been concerns. I don't know and I'm assuming if I asked, you
know, based on district, what are these timing extensions? You know, automatic
administrative extensions in percentage of where they happen around the island.
Just in my limited experience in the last four years, serving and having District 7
be my kuleana. There are a lot in my district. And I know there are a lot more
coming up.
So, that's my personal concern, and that's why I will be supporting this and why I
think it is important. I have faith in our Council. This is the next step actually to
be able to serve these people and these investors, and ideally, partners in the
future development and regenerative economic growth of our communities. So,
that's kind of my mana`o on the purpose and intentionality here and where the
vulnerability actually would lie for those who wouldn't be holding forth to what
they've committed to. So, with that I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you, Chair. I have many things to say, so please bear with
me. First of all, there's no testifiers. It kind of disturbs me that we have no
written testimony; we have no one zooming in; we don't have anybody in the
audience. So, for anybody that's going to watch this or watch the recording later,
it's astonishing to me that we have this, what appears to be really philosophical
discussion on how we're going to manage these changes of ordinances and there's
nobody testifying. So, to me something's wrong with that picture. I hope this
gets in the front page of the paper tomorrow and people chatter, chatter, chatter
about it. That disturbs me.
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Okay, the second part of it is, there's been this consistent comment about
transparency. So, what that says to me, the way I interpret that is, we don't trust
what decisions are being made. If trust is the factor, is there something we can do
Planning Director and Deputy Planning Director to get out that people—how
many extensions and why extensions, and who the developers are? Is it consistent
that, you know, Joe is the one that always asking? You know, is there something
going on here that people just don't trust these extensions and why? Is there
something you can do about transparency?
MR. KERN: Thank you for the question. So, I kind of think it's kind of two-fold
on that factor. I think there's a lot of convoluted understanding between an
administrative time extension and a rezoning time extension. A lot of the
applications that come through for a zoning time extension are the ones that you
folks see. The ones that are mainly talked about; the ones that have the most
discussion around. The administrative time extensions generally don't have a lot
of discussion around.
My understanding is that a past practice was to send to the Council. When an
administrative time extension was granted, to send that to the Council notifying
them that an administrative time extension was granted on the ordinance for
whatever reason. It is also my understanding, at some point, the Council said to
stop doing that. So that would be one practice that we could do. If it were to be
kept the same, then we could do that practice.
My question to that is that we have, and this isn't for the new Council Members,
but we've put forth at least a half-a-dozen rezoning ordinances with the five and
five, and they were generally approved with no discussion around it. So, if it was
a huge problem, why weren't we handling it on a case-by-case basis as we could?
So, that's my answer to that question, Council Member.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. The other thing is I think there's, at least in my
district, there's a lot of confusion about the idea of flipping property. It boils
down to, years ago in Waikoloa there was land developed. I believe it was Castle
and Cook, and they came in with their change of ordinance with all the
conditions. They actually I think, met all the conditions and then the property sat
there for 25 years.
Then all of a sudden they sell. You know, maybe they had like 500 and some lots
or something and they decided to sell 50 or 100 to some developer who wanted to
develop that amount. What bothered the community is they didn't have to come
in and do anything because they got that entitlement, and they got all those
conditions 30 years before. So the community gets extremely angry, but this isn't
what we're talking about.
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This is a totally different thing. So, I don't want people out there that are pushing
for this to get confused. This isn't what we're talking about. But my community
is really angry that 30 years later, they're able to develop and they don't provide
any more. No traffic impact studies; no community benefit stuff, no intersection
improvements. Why? Because they met all the conditions 30 years before. Now,
that's a different topic. I hope what's driving this bill and this idea that's being
floated is not because of that situation. So, it's really important to me to point that
out because my community is livid about this, and I don't know what to do about
it. If you have any idea on how to change that, I would.
MS. LEE LOY: Chair?
MS. EVANS: I'm done with my three minutes?
MS. LEE LOY: I didn't mean to interrupt. Just back to the
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: We're at 2:10, so if folks can have wrap-up comments,
because I still have some questions for the Planning Department and Corporation
Counsel? Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Yes, so I think it's pertinent to this discussion, because I think the
community needs to know what's driving this. I think there is confusion out there
what the change of ordinance really means.
Then lastly, I hope what, five minutes? Lastly, please go online and read our
Governor's proclamation relating to homelessness. He is eliminating all the laws
that impact people for developing housing. That will point out to you that so
many laws that impact the timing is out of the County purview. It's State law that
could get changed and add more time to developing housing.
The Governor understood how hard it was to develop housing. He has actually,
through emergency proclamation removing all, and the laws are listed here. So,
anybody that wants to know how hard it is to build housing, I suggest you look at
that. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Council Member
Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. Last comments for the day,just in response to the
question about why this Council hasn't removed conditions for administrative
extensions in the last few we've seen. I don't think any of us intend to fight five
battles when we have a bill here to amend the code to address that specific
problem. So, we all knew that time extension language was in all those rezoning
bills. It would have been silly to have to fight every single one. So, that's why
we have this Bill 194 on our desks today. Thank you.
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. And I'll speak to the amendment before us.
Corporation Counsel, I just wanted to get your opinion on this new language. I'll
be frank, I was totally fine with the original bill, because I think it was simple, to
the point. We don't want to allow the Director to grant administrative time
extensions automatically. We wanted to have the wherewithal to insert that
condition if we believe it made sense for that particular project that we were
reviewing.
Judge Strance, the first sentence in (c), "A condition granting an administrative
time extension by the director shall not be included in any change of zone
ordinance." Does that cancel out what's suggested in (b)? Is this now limiting
the Council from being able to provide a condition related to administrative time
extension in the event that we want to?
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel, Elizabeth Strance came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. STRANCE: Good afternoon, Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. As I
understand paragraph (c), it's limited to administrative time extensions. Where
paragraph (b) is discussing changes or alterations of conditions of change of
zoning ordinances. If your question is, does subsection (c)prevent a time
extension if the normal process is followed?
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: I guess my question is, if Council Members want to grant
the Director and the Planning Department the ability to have an administrative
time extension element, does (c)preclude us from doing that going forward? I
can understand the original language of not wanting the department to include that
in these draft bills for ordinances, but I think some of the rub or reservations we
were having was eliminating a tool, that we may want to be able to leverage in
times of a pandemic or a downturn. There could be a business partnership that's
dissolved. There could be a death in the family that I think, we don't need to be
discussing, and I think that could easily be handled by the Planning Department
through the administrative time extension element.
MS. STRANCE: As I understand the amendment, in an original zoning ordinance
placed before this body, it could not include an administrative time extension
grantable by the director.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, that's clear. So, we're removing a tool. Got it.
Then one of the things that the Deputy Director had mentioned earlier was related
to not being clear about what happens when this request is submitted to the
director.
MS. STRANCE: Yes, I heard that.
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CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Are you able to resolve that now? I want to be really
comfortable with what I'm voting on, because it's not super clear, and what we're
changing here will have implications in this process going forward, and I'm fine
with that. I just want to make sure we as a legislative body know what we're
doing; that the Planning Department is clear, and that members of the public,
large developers, and families that are just doing estate planning are very clear on
how we are going to proceed.
MS. STRANCE: As written, the request for administrative time extension would
be submitted through the Planning Department. I think it would be up to the
Planning Department to send that up to the Council with any type of
recommendation.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Our Deputy Director is not clear on that. He mentioned
that. Not clear what happens after it's submitted to us. Do we provide a
recommendation? Do they prepare the resolution? That's not clear. I don't know
if we've resolved the issue of doing this through a resolution, and I can appreciate
Council Member Inaba in wanting to make sure we're not making this process
over the regulatory and burdensome. But again, if we are directing the
department to act, they need to know what they need to be doing; what the
expectation and kuleana is moving forward. So, maybe that conversation needs to
be had after this committee wraps up.
To Council Member Evan's point earlier about taking into consideration, how
applicants have satisfied conditions of approval. That's got to be part of their
guiding criteria. If we are now going to be putting it in the hands of Council
Members to be granting time extensions, we have to take that into consideration.
So I'm just going to suggest, Council Member Inaba, there have been a lot of I
think really great mana`o.
Even Chair Kimball had mentioned earlier just, you know, couple-of-year
administrative extension could be a tool that we want to be able to leverage.
Taking all of that into consideration further massaging this, and I think that would
resolve a lot of the concerns that we are bringing forward today.
MS. STRANCE: Understood. Thank you.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: And please coordinate with the Planning Department? I
don't know if they were included in discussions with the amendments, but they
seem to be a little bit confused today. I want everybody to be on the same page.
Because at the end of the day, the public just wants government to work. I want
government to work. I don't want people to say, "Oh the County," and roll their
eyes. I want them to say like, "Yes, the County, they know what they're doing,
they're all coordinated, Legislative and Administrative Branch.:" Thank you,
Judge Strance.
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Council Member Inaba, can we make some amendments to your amendment?
MR. INABA: My recommendation today would be, I think we understand what
the intent of this amendment is. So,perhaps where the pukas are is that we want
further clarification as to how a future Council would evaluate whether or not to
grant the extension via a resolution, and to be clear as to the process once the
Planning Department receives a letter requesting a time extension. Do they
prepare the recommendation to accompany the resolution to us? So, I can
definitely work on that. I do think, though, it might be more beneficial for us to
vote on this today so we have a clean version to look at, at the next reading.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: I think there's going to be so many changes. I would
recommend a new amendment be floated and be considered by this body. That's
my recommendation. I cannot support this as written, but I can based on the
proposed amendments that you have just suggested today. I want to carry this
forward. So, if you want to keep it in Committee one more time, again, I just
want to make sure we're getting it right. Because there are implications for
anybody that are going through this process and our folks at the Planning
Department.
MR. INABA: I would like to hear from the rest of my colleagues. If my intent
would be that we have a cleaner copy, because we're on the tink in amending
right now. But if we have Draft 2 at first reading of Council, that's clean, and we
have an amendment accompanying it? But it's up to you folks how you want to
proceed.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Inaba. I see the wisdom
in setting the foundation again. I can support that, but I want to hold it in
Committee. Only because, if there's going to be more tinkering with it, I stand
firm on stop the clock when it's not the applicant it's on the agency. I absolutely
think it's a brilliant idea to provide that criteria because despite, you know, hope
in Council.
I'm going to say it because I sat on the Council, and I had something in
Ms. Kagiwada's district. Other Council Members from another district voted,
"no". And you know, it was a condition of time extension. I don't know how it
all got muddied when that property has been in that use since the tidal wave. We
were contemplating more time for them, and so despite what Council Members
might say, that's not the case going forward. We want to support Council
Members and their goals in their districts. We have times when they're listening
to other constituency but that's our role too.
Page 25
PCPLUD-2 January 24,2023
So Mr. Inaba, absolutely I'm willing to vote on this with the understanding that
it's going to stay in Committee and we're going to tinker with it some more. I
yield.
MR. INABA: Yes, sorry I misspoke. We would like it to stay in Committee.
MS. KIMBALL: I concur with Council Member Lee Loy. Let's get the
amendment that was discussed today and then hold it here.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah, I also concur. I fully support the intent of making sure
that the public is aware when these extensions are requested. So, I really support
that, but I would like to see the changes you've discussed. Thank you, I yield.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Anyone else? Okay, I just have to say, I have to vote on
words on paper and not intentions. So, I cannot support the amendment today.
But, make the changes and bring it forward in Committee, happy to support it 100
percent. Anyone else before we take the vote? And again, what we're voting
on is to amend Bill 194 with the contents of Communication 898.20. Okay, there
is a request, a motion for Call for the Question. Mr. Clerk, I believe we just have
to see if there are six votes. Roll call vote, please?
Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 194 with the contents of
to Amend: Comm. 898.20 was carried by the following roll call vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kimball, Lee Loy,
and Villegas —6.
Noes: Committee Members Evans,
and Chair Kierkiewicz—2.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder— 1.
Excused: None.
MR. HENRICKS: The motion carries. The bill is amended.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Bill 194 is amended with the contents of
Communication 898.20.
Motion to Postpone: Mr. Inaba moved to postpone Bill 194, as amended to the
February 7, 2023. Seconded by Ms. Villegas.
CHR KIERKIEWICZ: Any discussion on the postponement? Seeing none,
all in favor please say "aye."
Page 26
PCPLUD-2 January 24, 2023
Vote on Motion The motion to postpone Bill 194, as amended to
to Postpone: February 7, 2023 was carried by the following
(Approved) voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba,
Inaba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz— 8.
Noes: None.
Absent. Committee Member Kaneah`i- Kleinfelder— 1
Excused: None.
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 2:24 p.m., Mr. Inaba moved to adjourn the
MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy, and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba,
Inaba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Chair Kierkiewicz— 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder— I.
Excused. None.
CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: We are adjourned Thank you.
Appro e`E
1f
Li -,
Q.6
3/0 ) 3
Ms Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair (Da e)
Policy Committee on Planning,
Land Use, and Development
AK/dt
Pagc 27