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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOEAC 2023/02/07 (2022-2024) Committee on Governmental Operations and External Affairs 3`'d Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii February 7, 2023 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations and ORDER: External Affairs was called to order at 1:00 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Cindy Evans, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Cindy Evans, Chair Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Vice Chair Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Lauren Foo: Bill 22 (Comm. 91), in support. Timothy Rowan: Bill 22 (Comm. 91), in support. (representing Black Sands Beach Community) Keoni Dela Cruz: Bill 22 (Comm. 91), comment. Erica Zeitlin: Bill 22 (Comm. 91), comment. GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 Cory Harden: Comm. 72, comment; and (representing the Sierra Bill 22 (Comm. 91), in support. Club, Hawaii Island Group) Kristin Alice : Bill 22 (Comm. 91), in support. (representing HOPE Services) CHR. EVANS: Thank you for everyone testifying. Mr. Clerk, first on our agenda? Comm. 69: REAPPOINTMENT OF MARCIA BRINKLEY TO THE VETERANS ADVISORY COMMITTEE From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated January 20, 2023, requesting the Council's review and confirmation. Vote on Comm. 69: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend confirmation of the (Approved) reappointment of Ms. Marcia Brinkley to the Veterans Advisory Committee. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Kierkiewicz, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Evans —9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Executive Assistant to the Mayor Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward and provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment. Comm. 70: REAPPOINTMENT OF DAINA SAIKI TO THE BOARD OF APPEALS From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated January 20, 2023 requesting the Council's review and confirmation. Requires Council Confirmation by: March 5, 2023 (Section 13-4(k) Hawaii County Charter) Page 2 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 Vote on Comm. 70: Ms. Kagiwada moved to recommend confirmation of the (Approved) reappointment of Ms. Daina Saiki to the Board of Appeals. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Kierkiewicz, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Evans —9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Executive Assistant to the Mayor Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward and provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment. Comm. 71: REAPPOINTMENT OF KELLY VALENZUELA TO THE BOARD OF ETHICS From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated January 20, 2023, requesting the Council's review and confirmation. Requires Council Confirmation by: March 5, 2023 (Section 13-4(k) Hawaii County Charter) Vote on Comm. 71: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend confirmation of the (Approved) reappointment of Ms. Kelly Valenzuela to the Board Ethics. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Kierkiewicz, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Evans —9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Executive Assistant to the Mayor Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward and provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment. Page 3 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 Comm. 72: NOMINATION OF MYLES MIYASATO TO THE WINDWARD PLANNING COMMISSION From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated January 20, 2023, requesting the Council's review and confirmation. Requires Council Confirmation by: March 5, 2023 (Section 134(k) Hawaii County Charter) Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend confirmation of the appointment of Mr. Myles Miyasato to the Windward Planning Commission. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz. CHR. EVANS: Will Administration please introduce the candidate? (Note: At this time, the nominee Myles Miyasato and Executive Assistant to the Mayor, Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward to address the members of the Committee and provided a brief narrative of the nominee.) MS. BARTOLOME: Again,pleased to be here this afternoon. Also, on behalf of Mayor Roth, we are pleased to be nominating Mr. Myles Miyasato of District 1 to the Windward Planning Commission. Mr. Miyasato is a lifelong resident of Hawaii. Graduate of Aiea High School and Maui Community College. He offers years of expertise as a draftsperson, a surveyor, a foreman, and I have to throw this in, a paniolo. He has previously volunteered his time serving as a commissioner on the Cost of Government Commission, the Transportation Commission, and the Windward Planning Commission. If confirmed, he will be representing the Judicial District of North Hilo to Hamakua, and this is the At-Large seat with a term ending December 31, 2027. Your favorable confirmation is requested. Mahalo. As you can see, Mr. Miyasato is here next to me. CHR. EVANS: Thank you. Mr. Miyasato, you have some words? MR. MIYASATO: Thank you, Pomai. Good afternoon, Chair and Committee Members. I'm Myles Miyasato. I am currently retired almost two years now. So, in my previous capacity, I was a registered lobbyist for the Operating Engineers Stabilization Department, and in that capacity, you know, I would be asked to testify on behalf of bills, resolutions; and just as well, in opposition. So, you'd get a call from Honolulu, and they'll tell you put together testimony on certain things, and you'd do it. Same like an attorney, you know, you'd defend what you need to defend because that's what you're told to do; that's your job. Page 4 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 I just want to address one little thing before I move forward. As far as CDP's (Community Development Plans), and I guess the notion that I don't support them, I have my testimony if you folks want me to play it. But in no way, shape, or form did I oppose the CDP in any fashion. In my testimony, I actually thanked the Action Committee members for all the hard work that they do. In my testimony what I had asked was that the verbiage in the resolution be reconsidered. Only because of unintended consequences. My example in my testimony was-couple weeks previous to that hearing the Honorable Judge Freitas had come before the Council for rezoning of his property. I believe it was like ten acres, and he just wanted to subdivide for his kids into three separate parcels, four including himself. He got denied. I think some of you were on the Council. He got denied because of a moratorium that was put in place back by Chris Yuen, a concurrency policy. So, my point was, with moratoriums, you have unintended consequences for family members that just want to move forward with what, I think, is all of our goals in life, to provide for our kids some place if you can, and he was denied that. So, it's kind of a dangerous situation. I think it could have been worded a lot differently, and that's all we asked as our organization, that they amend the verbiage, nothing more. You can play it; it's in the archives, September 7h, 2016. As far as Mr. Kenoi's situation, same thing. I was just called by Honolulu and asked to testify in opposition of what Councilwoman Willie at that time had asked for a one-hour discussion. At that time, it was already being scheduled for a hearing, and so, why prosecute before, the verdict? Of which the verdict came out that it was not found unethical. So, I think it would have been just a lynching to have that discussion, and that was pretty much my testimony on that. But it was all on behalf of an organization, nothing personal. So, I guess the other thing I would like to share a little bit about is, while I was a lobbyist, when I first started, I didn't know very much about the land use process. It was a big learning experience, and kind of eye-opening, and kind of hurtful in a way a little bit. Because I was sitting on the opposite side of the table of a lot of the kupunas that were testifying against some of the things that I was testifying in favor of, but, it was my j ob. It was my j ob to do that, and it was their duty to oppose is what I saw, and I felt not too comfortable after a while of doing this. So, you know, I made a meeting with Pele Hanoa. I called her up and said, you know, can we sit down? She said, "okay, come down to the beach park." You know, to their hale down there. So, I went down and we sat and we talked, and finally, Uncle Hanoa sat up and said, "So what you like boy? What you came here for?" So I said, well you know, I just like to come out of respect, because we're going to be sitting across the table from each other for years to come, and it's nothing personal. It's my job to do that, and it's your duty to protect. I said, as long as you know, we can understand that I'm going to feel a little better about what I do. She said, "yeah, you know, nothing personal." And we stood up Page 5 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 and hugged. Every time we came to the chambers we greeted each other with a hug and we left with a hug. It's nothing personal. Yeah, it's just my job. A little while later, I was at the King Kamehameha Hotel, and I walked intoI seen Miki Hallaroy. Same thing. She had a little office at the King Kam Hotel. For some reason, she doesn't have it now. But same thing, I walked in pretty much gave her the same tone of what I testified in Kona; seen her there and you know, told her the same thing, and she sat there, and she actually cried. She sat there and cried for awhile. So, I think I did my best to do my job with pono, but it was my job to do that. So,just getting back to that. That was the past. Moving forward, I feel you know, I've beenI guess you could say, I feel now that I've been privileged to witness and see a lot of the things that I was able to. I didn't realize it until one day when I had a conversation with a kupuna, and I'll come back to that. But I got the privilege of going down to some places down on the South side. All around this island, but especially the South side, and it's down at Kapua, and there's like a Hawaiian slide. I don't know if any of you had the privilege of seeing it, but it is remarkable. It's a sight to behold. There's walls down there that literally from the ocean to as far as you can see. Straight. In the middle of a lava field. No rocks, so it was hand-carried down a chain, and just some amazing things that I got to witness. There's smooth stones embedded in the ground and a path. If you follow those paths, it will lead to a brackish pond with 6pae`ula, and the people down there, you know, call those the Queen baths. You know,Uncle Gracie's down there. He was taking care of that place. But, a while later, you know, I wanted to share those sites with Mayor Kenoi at that time. I told him, you know, there's a real special place I want to share with you, and unfortunately after he got diagnosed with his illness, we never got to do that. So a while later, I was at this gathering, and I can't remember what it was, but there was this kupuna there, and I sat down, and I can't remember how the subject came up, but I shared with her, you know, how I felt that I didn't get to share these things with Mayor Kenoi. She looked at me and she said, "you know, boy, some things not meant for everybody to see." You know, that really sunk in where I felt privileged for the things that I was allowed to see. Just wanted to share some of that with you folks. CHR. EVANS: Thank you. Members? Yes, Council Member Kimball. Page 6 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Miyasato again, for putting your name and all the service you have provided to the community. So, folks have known Mr. Miyasato for a while as somebody that lives in the heart of my district, Laupahoehoe. I appreciate you kind of clarifying that in your testimony that was brought into question today, that you were serving in a capacity for a particular organization with a particular point of view. I'd like to give you the opportunity because the CDP's, and in particular, the Hamakua CDP is one that people are very protective of because so much time was invested, and I personally think it is one of the better CDP's. I'm going to just give you a chance now to respond in terms of your own position on the role of CDP's and the Planning Commission's actions. Could you maybe speak to that a little bit. MR. MIYASATO: Yeah, I'd be glad to. When the CDP's first came out, they were interviewing for members to be on the Action Committee at that time. I was on that first committee because I believed in that. The need for the members within the community to be able to have a voice. Unfortunately, after maybe one or two meetings, I got asked to be employed in Kauai back and forth, so I withdrew from the committee. But, I do believe that members within the community should have a voice, because that's where they live, and someone from the outside doesn't know what's resources or what's valuable within that district. MS. KIMBALL: So, would you say then in terms of your potential deliberations on the Planning Commission, that you would defer to the elements of the CDP in terms of what is recommended in a given area? MR. MIYASATO: Could you repeat that? MS. KIMBALL: Would you use the CDP as a guiding document for the basis of your decision making as a member of the commission? MR. MIYASATO: That would be one of the considerations within my decision besides testimony from the public and what was put forward. MS. KIMBALL: And I'm sure, you know, as a paniolo and as a longtime resident of the Laupahoehoe area, protection of the SMA (Special Management Area) areas and keeping country, country and making sure we don't chop up our big Ag lots and ensuring that public access is maintained are all key concerns for the District 1. Could you speak to your positions on those three items? Page 7 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 MR. MIYASATO: Sure. Not only in Hamakua, but you know, being privileged to have experienced the ranch life. We're all ranchers on Kohala Mountain above your office. You know, it's a unique lifestyle. It's a community that I think, no other State, no other County has. It's something that the Big Island has and it's unique. It's amazing. It's a community within itself. If Senator Richards was here we'd have some stories to share. But you know, I guess one of the main reasons I didn't mention that I want to serve is that I'm really concerned about what we leave behind for our grandchildren. I have 11, and I think I've got to have the ability to share the ranch life with them. That lifestyle you get to see things that nobody gets to see. It's all behind locked gates. I mean it's amazing views, amazing sights; waterfalls, everything. There's a bus up in Pu`u `O`o in the middle of the forest. One of the cowboys used to live in it and rope wild cattle. It's probably still up there. But, I guess the only way I can express that maybe would be, you know, I guess the life of the land be perpetuated in righteousness, yeah. Everybody has their own interpretation of that. Not the 1843 version, though, that was more of a sovereignty. I'm talking more about the State motto in 1959. And perpetuate, yeah, to preserve something of importance indefinitely. What is important? Our lifestyle. The forest; shoreline. I fish. We hunt, we ranch. What's important? Cultural resources. Like I expressed earlier, the things that I got to see. For me, the biggest thing that captured everything is our lifestyle on the Big Island. That is so unique and treasured. You know, perpetuate in righteousness. What is righteousness? It's the quality of being morally correct or justifiable. All your decisions should be morally correct or justifiable, and that's where I come from. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Miyasato. Like I've said, we've known each other, not really well, and I'm like 98 percent of the time really a good judge of character. There's been a couple of times I've made big mistakes. This is what I'm going to do today. I'm sure you're aware that most of the testimony we got was in opposition to your position being nominated to this position. And most of that is coming from District 1. There is another hearing on this regardless of the vote today in Council. I think that there needs to be some assurances, perhaps through support of other testimony that there's this distinction between what you personally expressing today and what you may have expressed previously as appointment. So, there's also, Ms. Bartolome, there's an element on the application that's missing that I'd like to just address with you in time for our next meeting. Page 8 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 So, I'm going to vote, "no"today, but I do really appreciate you being here and I do believe that in your heart of hearts—my intuition is telling me that, you know, you're being genuine and you're a good guy, so, thank you. I yield, Chair. CHR. EVANS: Okay, Council Member Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: So, I just wanted to say that I was on the Ka`u Community Development Steering Committee. So involved in that very long process. And it was super long and I would, you know, fight you on which one was better. But ours is very—it was in some ways I think a little radical for some people because we do have so many amazing cultural resources down there in the undeveloped South. I must say that Mr. Miyasato was on the Planning Commission at that time, and he was very supportive and understood that special character of Ka`u and was supportive of that preservation element of it, which is so strong in that. So, I just wanted to say that, and you know, giving a fuller background I think. I will say, that you know, you were talking about getting the call from Honolulu. So that is a little troubling to me, that part. In that just to be frank, I mean, that was Operators' Union and our next nomination is also connected to the Operators' Union. I just wanted to say that. I don't know is you want to say anything about that. But, that is troubling to me. It's not so much the Community Development Plan part. Thanks. CHR. EVANS: Yes, Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair Evans. Aloha, Myles. I hope it's okay if I call you Myles. Like Council Member Kimball, I've known you a long time. I'm actually trying to think back to when we first met, but it's many many years. I remember being here on the Council and actually seeing you in here in chambers quite often; always wanting to stay in the know; testifying on things that you know, Operating Engineers believe to be protecting, enhancing quality of life here on the islands. I'm going to be supporting your nomination. You're honest, you're hardworking, you're straight up. You have had the experiences on the commission in other capacities and have a real good grasp on land use. So, we've got a lot of really important decisions coming up like our General Plan; like updates to Chapter 23 and 25. Page 9 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 So, someone like you who's born and raised; who has kids, mo`opuna, that you want to be able to stay here. I know in my na`au you're going to make the right decision for our community to make sure folks have a chance to stay. There was one comment that was brought forward in some of the testimony related to your time on Cost of Government Commission. I'm actually going to defend you on that one. I think you were making a comment around how, it's just not enough time, 11 months to be making really solid tangible, double recommendations to the Council. It's just not enough time. I totally felt that way having been Vice Chair in Cost of Government in 2014. We're only scratching the surface of members of our community. Just kind of peeling back the curtain a little bit and seeing how County Government operates, and that's really not enough time to be making solid recommendations. So, I'm going to defend you on that one. I think you advocated for, I've advocated for, members on the existing commission advocated for just having a little bit more time. That way you have entree to kind of get to know departments a little bit more and can make solid recommendations. Anyway, I just really appreciate you putting yourself out there and taking the time to show up today. Again, I'll be supporting your nomination. Thank you. Chair, I yield. CHR. EVANS: Thank you. Any other member? Oh yes, sorry, Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. So, I also have been a little bit on the fence, but I did give Myles a call. Sorry, calling you Myles, Mr. Miyasato a call and we had a good conversation. I did express that, you know, one of my very strong feelings and being on the Council is having our residents have a say in what happens in their government. And so, you know, hearing some of the testimony about, you know, opposing the CDP Action Committee recommendations were a little concerning. I still am a little bit on the fence,just honestly. I think I mentioned to you that, you know, I do feel like there're other people here who know you better, but now there's several people who know you better. So, I'm not sure what I'm going to vote today, but I'm glad we'll have at least one more opportunity to talk to you and hear more. And I hope that that will help me make a better decision at that time. So, thank you so much for being here and putting yourself out there. I appreciate—and for taking the time to talk to me on the phone. CHR. EVANS: Council Member Villegas. Page 10 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 MS. VILLEGAS: Aloha, Mr. Miyasato. I got to meet you as we walked in the door today. Unfortunately, I don't know you outside of that, and in the years that I have played this role sitting in this position, there haven't been that many times when a significant amount of opposition of somebody's appointment to a Planning Commission have come forward. I appreciate your comments, Council Member Kagiwada about the constituency and the voters. When they share their testimony, they're looking to us to be their voice and sitting here. My challenge is I don't know you and I've had a number of constituents that I do know very well ask me not to support your nomination to this role. So, I have my own concerns about, I suppose for me, as empathetic as I am, saying that something's your job and you're paid to do it, doesn't necessarilyI just have concerns with that, especially with lobbyists, right? Because we all have to make decisions of who we lobby for. But, it is a tough position to be in as an employee of someone whose asking you to do something that may not be in alignment with your own personal values. Unfortunately, I think that's why the planet and society and humanity are in so many of the crises that we are, is because so many people say, "well, this is my job, and I get paid to do it," and then they do it. So that to me is a little bit of a challenge even with an empathetic shed of light on that circumstance. I also have concerns about the historic stacking of our Planning Commissions with representatives from the unions, and I hear that a lot from constituents in my district. Unions are fantastic and they represent the people that they serve, but they are fallible, and sometimes there have been a lot of complications and decisions get made. There have been a lot of questions about that influence and how that radically influences government and decisions that get made, especially as it comes to land use. So, those are my red flags here today, and I apologize, but I won't be supporting your nomination. It will move forward to Council, but I won't be supporting a positive recommendation, and I think outside this week, we'd totally sit and wala`au, and you know, understand each other very well. So, I humbly apologize for taking my kuleana of representing the voters that have reached out and expressing my vote in alignment with what they've asked me to. So, with that I yield. CHR. EVANS: Okay, members, any other questions or comments? Seeing none, Mr. Clerk, take a roll call vote please? Page 11 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 Vote on Comm. 72: The motion to recommend confirmation of the Failed appointment of Mr. Myles Miyasato to the Windward Planning Commission failed by the following roll call vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, and Chair Evans —4. Noes: Committee Members Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, and Villegas —5. Absent: None. Excused: None. (Note: Mr. Inaba and Ms. Kagiwada voted "kanalua"then "no.") (Note: Comm. 72 will be forwarded to Council with a negative recommendation.) CHR. EVANS: Mr. Clerk, Communication 73. Comm. 73: NOMINATION OF CHANTEL PERRIN TO THE WINDWARD PLANNING COMMISSION From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated January 20, 2023, requesting the Council's review and confirmation. Requires Council Confirmation by: March 5, 2023 (Section 13-4(k) Hawaii County Charter) Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend confirmation of the appointment of Ms. Chantel Perrin to the Windward Planning Commission. Seconded by Ms. Galimba. (Note: At this time, the nominee Chantel Perrin and Executive Assistant to the Mayor, Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward to address the members of the Committee and provided a brief narrative of the nominee.) MS. BARTOLOME: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Yes, on behalf of Mayor Roth, we are pleased to be nominating Chantel Perrin to the Windward Planning Commission. Ms. Perrin is a lifelong resident of Hawaii. She was born and raised in Kailua, Oahu where she graduated from Kailua High School. She offers a fresh and diverse perspective living here on Hawaii Island for three years. She has an extensive employment background ranging from administrative skills to property management. If confirmed, she will be representing the Judicial District of Puna, serving a term ending December 31, 2027. And your favorable confirmation is requested. Ms. Perrin is here next to me today. Page 12 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 CHR. EVANS: Yes, please, Ms. Perrin. MS. PERRIN: Aloha and good afternoon. As they said, my name is Chantel Perrin. Thank you for allowing me to come before you folks and share with you all who I am. I am a stay-at-home mom of 12. Nine boys and three girls. I've actually been a stay-at-home mom for eight years. There's never a dull moment at home. Thankfully, my husband has been able to provide, so I can. I know there are many moms who wish they could, but that's just not where the modern day times is allowing us to do, as the natural caregivers that we are. So, I come before you folks as a hope to serve on this committee. My youngest is five. We did not intend to move here to Hawaii Island. We looked on Oahu two, three years. It was nearly close to impossible. So when the opportunity came to come here and look, and it arose, and we could purchase a home, I'm here to stay. I've got 13 more years invested into my family. I can't go anywhere. So, this land in which we set forth, we need to find a way to make it sustainable for my children, their friends, anyone who touches here that it can sustain them and provide. Too many of our families are leaving Hawaii to go to the mainland because it's cheaper. It's cheap here, you just need to find a way. As she said I have an extensive background in administrative all the way up to property management. I've been in Corporate Honolulu since the age of 18, working up through the ranks earning my stripes. Starting of course with administration; data entry, receptionist all the way right up toI was the Assistant Operations Manager for a family-owned facilities maintenance company where I earned a lot of my stripes working in downtown Honolulu. But, as well as in construction; freight forwarding across the ocean, you know, bringing in goods to our islands so our people can survive. And then, you know, transporting within the island so everyone else can survive as well. So, thank you so much for allowing me to come forward. I look forward to working with you folks. CHR. EVANS: Okay, thank you. Members any questions, comments? Yes, Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. First of all, you are a hero to raise all those kids, and I actually think the Windward Planning Commission will be duck soup for you. But, that being said, you know, I'm going to be supporting your nomination. I think the lens that you bring as far as a mom with all those kids and looking out for opportunities for the next generation that we have sitting here in the gallery today. I think it's just a perfect fit. Page 13 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 There's a lot to learn, but I think some of that growth that you will experience on the Windward Planning Commission will not only be helpful for you and your family, but for the decisions that that body makes. So, I will be supporting your nomination wholeheartedly. Thank you for putting in your name. It's tough, filling these roles are tough. There's a lot to learn, so thank you very much. Chair, I yield. CHR. EVANS: Council Member Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you, Chair. Good afternoon. Thank you again for applying, and thank you Mayor's Office for submitting this nomination. Being that you have a lot of experience as you shared. In Honolulu, are there any potential conflicts that you have that you might want to disclose that might affect your service on the Windward Planning Commission? MS. PERRIN: I'm going to jump right to the goose. So, my husband does work for the Operators Engineers. He has been an operator for 25 years. It is what has been our bread and butter and provided for our family. Now, when the opportunity arose where he could advance his career, because as the saying is, as you get older, you go from being on foot to behind a desk. That is the motion that my husband went. He went from being on foot to behind a desk. It's just unfortunate that he's there and I'm here, but I assure you, what I bring to the table is honestly and non-corruption. I come here with a na`au to serve my community and bring respect to my past; appreciation to what's in front of me; and a longevity to what's to come to sustain our future, our children, or what's yet to come. MR. INABA: Thank you. As you evaluate projects that come before the Windward Planning Commission, how do you anticipate when to make disclosures where there might be a conflict. Because in our application here, we see your husband's name, but it's not listed as a conflict when the opportunity was provided to share potential conflicts in your role as a commissioner. MS. PERRIN: I don't see it as a conflict. I mean that's me. If that is, then I guess it just needs to be noted, but I don't see it as a problem. I don't take my work home and neither does he. You've got to understand when you have children, you cannot bring your work home because when you walk through those doors, you're putting on mom and dad. You're not lobbyists or union workers or whatever it may be. You're not receptionist Chantel, you know, you're not Council Member, sorry, Kierkiewicz. You know,you're walking through those doors and you become that, and your work needs to stay at work. Page 14 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 I don't know if you know my husband, but I'm not afraid to tell him, no pass code honey, the buck stops here. So, I've got no problems, no issues by telling him, no I cannot share, and he's very respectful in that part. MR. INABA: So, I think just, the question I have is, when or how will you know when you need to disclose a potential conflict when a project comes before the commission that you need to make a decision on? What's the line? MR. PERRIN: What's the line? No, I'm getting there. Yes, so I guess with that being said, there is a goal for every district. CDP's, and Puna does have one. So, that would definitely be taken to that—my community, you know, maybe I won't consider my husband in that pot. But those that work and live in my community, you know, people I come through every day at the schools. It don't matter,just whoever's in the community. But the line will basically stop where it needs to, and I will use whatever resources that are available to make the judgement call. I will consult with others if those lines every get blurry and find out if I need a little more clear lens to look through. But it will stop if that's why you're worried. There will be a line. MR. INABA: Okay, thank you very much Chair, I yield. CHR. EVANS: Okay, Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you and thank you for volunteering to serve in this capacity. As Council Member Lee Loy said. I mean, you are a hero managing that many children. I have four biological then occasionally I get extras. I've never beenI believe as high as six, but I've never been all the way up to nine. How familiar do you feel you are with specifically, the land use concerns in this County. You know, because you're coming—how long have you been here, I'm sorry? MS. PERRIN: So, we're coming up on four years. So, three-and-a-half, maybe three-and-a-quarter. I'm not too familiar with it. I have brushed upon it. I know a little bit more of agriculture, residential areas that are available for conserving or developing, so I know a little bit. MS. KIMBALL: You're probably heard me ask the previous applicant in my district, what folks are most concerned about is, you know, keeping large rural parcels intact; maintaining ocean access; access to public open space, and then just ensuring that the will of the community is supported in terms of the presentation of the CDP. So, what is your position on those items with respect to decisions you might be making on the Planning Commission? Page 15 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 MS. PERRIN: I'm for what is, how do I say it? Forgive me, being up here is really nerve racking. So, all these forces come flushing through your head. But, I am for what is fair and what is the right thing to do, and sometimes when you have to make the right decision, it's not always going to be liked. But, sometimes you get to the bigger picture that we're all—we've got to make a few people upset. We've got to stick to what is right, and what is fair, and what is just. You know, what the community wants with respect to what we can give without compromising; without overdeveloping; without overthinking the process in making a problem for our future or what's to come or making just things worse. I think someone said, you know, you can't make a decision off of 11 months. I can't make a decision off of one month, one day. It takes time to sit and consult all your resources, and you know, listen to those in your community. You know, and actually kind of get in a place where your community can talk to you and feel comfortable and safe that they're going to be heard, and their point of views are going to be respected no matter where they come from in life. So,just being able to be open and honest, and know what areas you're going to rely on your resources. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you for that response, and you know, I generally feel like you're coming from a place of goodness, and a good heart. I'm a littleI think maybe this position on the Planning Commission is a little too soon for you. I would recommend actually application to one of the CDP Action Committees. I would just because I don't think you're—it doesn't seem that you're quite as well versed in the land use issues and some of the materials that we have before us at this time to be sitting at the level of the commission. So, my recommendation to you would be to reapply for the Action Committee. Thank you, I yield. CHR. EVANS: Members? Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much, Chair. Mahalo, Ms. Perrin for being here today. You are a mother of 12, and that in itself is something altogether. I'm a father of three. I couldn't imagine multiplying what I have by four at home. I don't know how you do it, but I think two different things we're discussing. Land use, Planning Commission, Zoning, and the importance of your decision-making. I like what you said. I do feel like there's a lot of room for growth before you look at something like the Planning Commission. The decisions that are made on that commission come to us, and that is what we base, in part, our decisions on as far as what's good for the island as a whole, what's good for communities. Page 16 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 I place so much value on the notes that read through from those commission meetings, because there's five different members, each representing a different area of, you know, half of our island. And yet, you know, each one comes from a different place. So, I like to look those notes over to give me some feeling and background on whatever project has come before them and then ultimately to us. Given some of your responses to Ms. Kimball, I don't feel like you're ready to kind of take that rank yet and you have a lot to learn. As well, I would draw on, you've been here a short period of time. Maybe on Oahu more and you've seen a lot there, but I'd like you to get some more time under your belt, specifically, in Puna before you represent our Puna District as our Planning Commission member. So, I'll be declining today, but I would like to see you in the future come back and try again. Thank you. CHR. EVANS: Okay, yes, Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Chair Kimball for that recommendation. I think that the CDP Action Committee is also—and thank you, Chantel for your willingness to even step up here and to endure this experience with all of us. It's a very vulnerable place to be in, and just thank you for your willingness to do that. I am also going to be agreeing with Chair Kimball and Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and recommending that I won't be supporting this moving forward. I see here that your second preferred commission was the Game Management Advisory Commission. Then you have the Puna Community Development Plan Action Committee, and the Committee on the Status of Women. So, my hope is that you might reconsider and perhaps work with Pomai on appointment to one of these other commissions as a place to start. I also want you to know you're not the first person to go through this or have us say these similar kind of things. You're obviously an incredibly competent and dedicated woman to be raising 12 children and husband, right? So, and that teamwork. That teamwork, I think, is really pivotal and it's the only way to raise 12 children and not lose your mind. But that would be my recommendation, is perhaps you revisit and come back with a nomination for another one of these commissions that you have expressed interest in, and that would be a great way to get your feet wet; get planted, get exposed. Yeah, our Planning Commissions are just such intense and pivotal places, and the decisions that get made there we really need people with the highest qualifications or expertise in those issues. I wish I could say that I believe you that we leave our work outside the door, but I know I can't with this job, it's part of who I am while I'm serving in this role. And I couldn't expect you to do the same in your Page 17 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 relationship with your husband. It's imperative that we support one another in all those things. So, I would hate to have you in a circumstance that you, you know, might find yourself really challenged with something like that. So, thank you for your willingness to endure this today and your amazing smile. You're just obviously a radiant woman. So, appreciate you being here. I yield. CHR. EVANS: Okay. Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Aloha Chantel, great to see you. Thanks for putting your name forward and going through the ringer here at Council. I'm going to be supporting your nomination. I think back to my time here on the Council and a number of my colleagues saying on a number of occasions, I'm still new here; I'm still learning. Yet, we're getting paid to make decisions that have long-term impact in the County of Hawaii. You're stepping up to volunteer. You care about your community. I don't know how you juggle 12 kids, but you do. There's a lot of balancing of household responsibilities, resourcefulness, budgeting, quality of life. I think you're going to bring an incredible lens to the commission, and I'm actually glad that you're not some businessperson, or developer, or in construction, or an economist. You're a real tita. You know like, no, seriously though, like you're a real person that genuinely cares about the future of our island and making sure that your kids have a chance, and I want to give you a chance. You're going to get a ton of support from the Planning Department, from Corporation Counsel. You'll get background reports. They walk you through every single thing on the agenda, and it's your opportunity to ask questions that regular people, your neighbors want to ask. I think it's important for folks like you to step up to the plate and have an opportunity to learn, to be educated. That way you can be empowering your friends and your network with that kind of information. I don't think this is beyond you. I mean if you can manage 12 kids, you can certainly manage the Planning Commissions. So, I'll be supporting your nomination. Thank you. Chair, I yield. CHR. EVANS: Thank you. Any other member? Okay, I have a question. So, how long is this for, this appointment? MS. BARTOLOME: Her term is until 2027. CHR. EVANS: Till 2027? So this is five years. MS. BARTOLOME: December 31, 2027. Yes, it's a five-year term. Page 18 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 CHR. EVANS: Okay, thank you. The other question I have for you, Chantel. How long did you live on Oahu? MS. PERRIN: I was born and raised there. CHR. EVANS: Okay, so you saw over your whole time there, how the community changed. The roads, the zoning, the short-term vacation rentals. So, you have felt and understood what it means to see development. Am I right? MS. PERRIN: Yes, ma'am. CHR. EVANS: Okay, thank you. I think that's important to bring to the table, that kind of background and knowledge. Thank you. Okay, with no other members. MS. BARTOLOME: Sorry, may I just share something real quick? CHR. EVANS: Yeah, please. MS. BARTOLOME: So, going back to Council Member Inaba. I just wanted to thank you for bringing up your concern with the possible conflict and ethics topic. I just wanted to share with all of our Council Members and remind you that all of our committee members, all of our board members, and our commissioners, we have an amazing Corporation Counsel that does training on not just Sunshine Law, but ethics training as well. So,just wanted to let you know that and remind you about that. CHR. EVANS: Thank you. We have a motion on the nomination of Chantel Perrin to the Windward Planning Commission. Mr. Clerk, take roll call please. Vote on Comm. 73: The motion to recommend confirmation of the Failed appointment of Ms. Chantel Perrin to the Windward Planning Commission failed by the following roll call vote: Ayes: Committee Members Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, and Chair Evans —3. Noes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kimball, and Villegas —6. Absent: None. Excused: None. (Note: Comm. 73 will be forwarded to Council with a negative recommendation.) Page 19 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 CHR. EVANS: Okay, we'll move on to Communication 74. Comm. 74: NOMINATION OF DAVID R. GREENWELL TO THE LIQUOR COMMISSION From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated January 20, 2023, requesting the Council's review and confirmation. Requires Council Confirmation by: March 5, 2023 (Section 13-4(k) Hawaii County Charter) Vote on Comm. 74: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend confirmation of the (Approved) appointment of Mr. David R. Greenwell to the Liquor Commission. Seconded by Ms. Galimba and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Kierkiewicz, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Evans —9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Executive Assistant to the Mayor Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward and provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment. Comm. 75: NOMINATION OF MR. WIL OKABE TO THE LIQUOR COMMISSION From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated January 20, 2023, requesting the Council's review and confirmation. Requires Council Confirmation by: March 5, 2023 (Section 13-4(k) Hawaii County Charter) Page 20 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 Vote on Comm. 75: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend confirmation of (Approved) the appointment of Mr. Wil Okabe to the Liquor Commission. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Kierkiewicz, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Evans —9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Executive Assistant to the Mayor Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward and provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment. Comm. 76: NOMINATION OF DAVID A. WISEMAN TO THE MERIT APPEALS BOARD From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated January 20, 2023, requesting the Council's review and confirmation. Requires Council Confirmation by: March 5, 2023 (Section 13-4(k) Hawaii County Charter) Vote on Comm. 76: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend confirmation of the (Approved) appointment of Mr. David A. Wiseman to the Merit Appeals Board. Seconded by Ms. Galimba and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Kierkiewicz, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Evans —9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Executive Assistant to the Mayor Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward and provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment. Page 21 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 CHR. EVANS: Mr. Clerk, would you please let the record show that I'm relinquishing the Chair to Vice Chair Lee Loy for the following agenda item, which is Bill 22. Relinquish Chair: At this time, the Chair relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Lee Loy. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. Let the record reflect that I have assumed the meeting at 2:54 p.m. Mr. Clerk, please Bill 22. BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Lori Johnson: Bill 22 (Comm. 91), in support. (representing Hawaii Island Pets Alive) Rebecca Corby: Bill 22 (Comm. 91), in support. Sylvia Dolena: Bill 22 (Comm. 91), in support. Mary Gray: Bill 22 (Comm. 91), in support. Bill 22: AMENDS CHAPTER 2,ARTICLE 2;ADDS A NEW ARTICLE TO CHAPTER 2; AND AMENDS CHAPTER 4,ARTICLES 2, 3,4,AND 9, OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), TO CREATE AN ANIMAL CONTROL AND PROTECTION AGENCY Establishes an independent agency to provide for the care and maintenance of impounded animals and to fulfill the functions and requirements of Hawaii Revised Statutes, Chapters 143 and 711 relating to the protection of animals. Reference: Comm. 91 Intr. by: Ms. Kimball and Ms. Evans Motion to Approve: Ms. Kimball moved to recommend passage of Bill 22 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Evans. Page 22 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. Mr. Clerk, there's been a motion by Council Member Kimball, a second by Ms. Evans to forward Bill 22 to the Council with a favorable recommendation. Ladies, pick who's going to lead the discussion. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. I'll start. I'd like to start with just acknowledging all the hands that went into drafting this piece of legislation. Of course, we have Managing Director Lee Lord and the Executive Assistant Timothy Hansen from the Office of the Mayor. From Corporation Counsel Judge Strance and Deputy Corp. Counsel Sylvia Wan. From HPD (Hawai`i Police Department) Major Wana back there. And of course, our Director of Finance Deanna Sako. But I would be remiss in not including and recognizing Council Member Richards or I should say, Senator Richards. This was one of his last projects that he worked on prior to being elected to the Senate, and he had requested that I continue to work on this and get it across the finish line. It is a fairly straightforward and simple bill. For the Council Members who are new, you know, for more than 20 years the Humane Society was responsible for the animal control services that the County is required to undertake under Chapter 143, Chapter 711 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes; and Chapter 4 of the Hawaii County Code. They declined to rebid on that contract. As a result, Rainbow Rangers took over that contract. That didn't work out as some of you folks know, and so, as a pilot project, animal control services was moved under HPD. You know, the impetus for this bill is an understanding after having managed animal control for yourselves under HPD, that it really needs a dedicated agency in order to really perform the core services that are required under Statute and County Code. So, all this bill does is it creates the office, creates the administrator. Then, it also does some cleanup on Chapter 4, because Chapter 4 referred heavily to the Humane Society. Obviously, that relationship isn't there anymore. So, the only amendments to Chapter 4, really editorial around the language that referred to the Humane Society. I did just want to highlight the section that refers to the powers and duties of the animal control and protection administrator, so they will have the responsibility for the operation of the County Pounds. They will have the responsibility to hire the staff and personnel. I've got some questions about this. Animal Control Officers are civil service employees, so they are under the civil service hiring procedures. Page 23 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 Section Number 3 allows agreements with Federal agencies to carry out the mandates of the agency. Section 3 also includes create relationships and agreements to provide additional services beyond what's required in Chapter 142, 143, 711, and Chapter 4. Periodic reporting is due to the Managing Director, and the Administrator may adopt additional rules in order to administer their services. So, I just wanted to highlight the functions of the new agency. As was mentioned, you know, previously in the testimony, there was a lot of concern overall about the current status of Chapter 4 in terms of its actual policy provisions. Council Member Evans and I intend to continue working with the Administration and others; also, the new Administrator, to look at this and look at the services we provide. You know, I also think that there's room for an advisory committee. I just want to be careful that we don't set up something that would require Sunshine Law, because that would mean Corp. Counsel, a secretary. I know Judge Strance is probably like, no more commissions. But, no, we want to be thoughtful about the resources that might be needed with a brand new agency. So, we may want to give them a little time to get their feet wet and get setup before we do something that would require Sunshine Law provisions, although there's always the opportunity to setup something informal, as an advisory committee that would include members of this committee. So, at this time, I don't know, Council Member Evans, do you want to weigh in now, or do you want to bring up the folks from the Administration to make their comments? I'll yield Chair. MS. EVANS: Thank you. So, Mr. Lee Lord, would you please come up? Thank you. While he's making his way, I do know in the discussion of drafting the bill, a lot of it is how far do you get into the weeds. How deep do you get before you start micromanaging? So, we're hopeful that the language that you see is a little bit more broader in its policy, but clearly, we want—this is going to be attached to you, Managing Director. So, given the concerns of the public and wanting them to have obviously some type of involvement in terms of how it's going to be operated; what's the transparency, accountability piece? How would you address moving forward let's say with this passing as it, how would it—how would you involve the public? How do you see that happening? (Note: At this time, Managing Director Lee Lord came forward to address the members of the Committee.) Page 24 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 MR. LORD: Managing Director Lee Lord. We've had several discussions around this, and I think Council Member Kimball kind of alluded to it that we're welcome to outside advice. So, I think we would look at what would be the best way to set that up, so that we could get input from the community, and we could also be sharing what our plans are and what we're looking at. Because, as mentioned, this is kind of a living document, not that we referred it that way, but there's going to be changes that are going to need to be made as we move forward with bringing this agency online. So, there'll be some tweaking here and there to ensure that we're doing the best we can for the community and for the animals. So, having an advisory committee, that of course once again, avoids Sunshine Law, so that there's you know, an easy avenue for communicating back and forth. We're very open to that and looking at that. MS. EVANS: Can't the Mayor standup some type of taskforce or working group without a working group immediately? MR. LORD: Absolutely, that could happen also. It's more informal. You know, membership is a little easier to move in and out of. But then again, that would be usually it's the Mayor appointing or recommending and delegating to someone who to invite to that taskforce. But once again, we could open it up to the community for those people who the Mayor might not know or those that he delegates it to don't know and invite people in. MS. EVANS: Okay, and was there any discussion on how it will get funded? The reason I'm thinking that is, right now there's a bill at the Legislature introduced, I believe by Karl Rhoads, and he wants to standup a fund for spay and neuter for the whole state, so that you know, we can address that and fund that. Has there been any discussion about raising fees or how do you see that play out? MR. LORD: Council Member Kimball and Major Wana might know and recall more details than I do. But, in revising Chapter 4,there are fees that need to be changed, because they're extremely old. You know, we can't even care for or feed a dog for $5 a day, which is the fee that's paid for housing a dog that's been lost or brought in, and the owners are found. Asking for $5 a day is something probably that worked back in the 70's or 80's, but at this point in time, for the cost of our staff and our facilities and the administration of all that, we are looking at raising the fees for that. But, looking at the Council and our budget for the Council to approve our budget for the next fiscal year, out of County funds at this point in time, we do utilize some of those funds for spay and neuter options when we bring in strays that we Page 25 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 figure are going to get adopted. Those types of things. But Major Wana might have more to add than I had to add with greater detail. MS. EVANS: Right, right. Okay, I'm fine. I'm done with my questioning. Thank you, I yield. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Evans. Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Any other members? Questions, comments? I saw Ms. Kagiwada's light first. Go ahead. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. I wonder if Major Wana wants to come up? So, I absolutely support this and thank both the Council Members for working on this and bringing it forward. But, I'm just wondering, I think there might be a couple things that are actually beneficial with having current animal control in the Police Department, HPD. I'm just wondering if there's been any discussion about will HPD continue in that kind of supportive role or even taking the lead on things such as, when there's potential abuse and neglect cases, things like that? My understanding is for Animal Control Officers going into areas where they really feel unsafe. Currently, you know, they have the ability to maybe if there's someone nearby that's an actual officer, they can come with them. But maybe, does that all going to go away once we move this out of HPD? (Note: At this time, Hawaii Police Department Major Aimee Wana came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. WANA: Once this moves out of HPD, I don't ever foresee law enforcement being a complete separate entity that would never touch this. There will always be overlap just based on the gravity of some of the laws and what's being enforced. Animal Control Officers even currently are only able to issue citations. So, they are not able to they do not have any arrest powers; they cannot do advise of rights; they cannot do search warrants. So, police will always have to be involved in those type of more serious cases, misdemeanors and so forth where arrests are possible; prosecution is plausible. In situations currently, if there are situations where, you know, the location that they're going in is a little dicey. You know, by all means, we tell them wait for officers, and I would imagine it would be the same in the future. We do that with other enforcement entities. Whether it be Sheriffs or, you know, all these other groups that we work with island-wide. So, I don't foresee that changing significantly. The biggest change will be who's administering it. Page 26 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 MS. KAGIWADA: Great. Thank you. And this is more of a general question, maybe to the Council Members who are bringing this forward. I know there is many issues with our animal control, and many of them aren't going to be easily solved just by having a new agency, obviously. But one I'm particularly concerned about is staffing. Is there any reason to hope or anything that might open up with this new agency in helping us with staffing for animal control? ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you for that question. To the makers, anyone? MS. KIMBALL: I can let Managing Director maybe respond to this or just say, in general, that the hiring processes should be a little bit more straightforward outside of HPD, and hopefully that will help us fill those positions more easily. I will say that also the funding for those positions will be maintained because we're moving that funding from HPD out to the agency. In fact, there may actually be a couple additional positions. We'll see once the budget actually comes forward. But, Managing Director, I don't know if you had anything to add to that aspect of it? MR. LORD: We are hopeful but cautious at this point in time. Of course, the Police Department has been doing this for over a year, almost a year-and-a-half at this point in time running the whole show doing everything that needs to be done. Those positions and the people that work in those positions are special people because you're dealing with some very vicious dogs who would rather attack you, and you've got to care for those dogs. Feed them, take care of them, make sure they're healthy. Those types of things. It's not an easy thing to do. So, we can't just be hiring people off the street for that, but we're looking for people with experience and then provide training. Fortunately, we've been hiring people, but through contracts. So, they're at 90-day contracts. So, these are people that are dedicated to animals, and Major Wana is going to correct me in the length of the contacts that we're using. But there's a group of people who are interested in waiting for someday to be able once we make this an agency, to be hired full-time with the full rights of a County employee. So, we're hopeful for that. Did you want to add some more? MS. WANA: Yeah, the contracts currently are multi-year contracts. So, right now, the employees are contracted through June of 2024, based on the fact that there are no civil service positions that we have right now in the County. So, they are not 90-day or 89-day hires. MR. LORD: So, it will be a job and we'll have to recruit, but we don't think they'll be—we're cautious but we're hopeful to have full staff when we need them. Page 27 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much everybody. MS. EVANS: I wanted to comment on the question. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Sure, hang on one second. Ms. Kagiwada, you yield the floor, correct? MS. KAGIWADA: I yield. Thanks. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Go ahead, Ms. Evans. MS. EVANS: Thank you. When we were drafting this, it really became more obvious that we really do need an administrator that runs this agency. For one reason, I really wanted to see the language about entering into agreements with Federal, State, and other entities. For example, farm animals. You know, when farm animals get abused and neglected, and you see them starving and horrible abuse, you would think the Department of Agriculture would step up their game and be out there taking action. So, what I see is, you know, we have humane officers, and if people go out and see it's not a domestic animal; not a dog or a cat, or not domesticated it's a farm animal that's being abused, you know they're not going to walk away from it. But the reality is, we need to be much more proactive. I think as the County, we need to reach out to the Department of Ag (Agriculture), Department of Land and Natural Resources for wildlife. I think there might be a way for us to bring in money, but you know, you're going to need an administrator that needs to do that, be very proactive in reaching out to those agencies and getting reimbursement at a minimum. If they're out there seeing this horrible abuse that needs to be taken care of. So, I'm really hopeful an administrator can really work with those Federal and State agencies and bring in money. I think they should bring in money to the County. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Evans for that context. Any other members? Comments? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Thank you Major Wana and Mr. Lord for being here today. Okay, so you're ready to take this on, Managing Director? MR. LORD: We're going to be as ready as we can, and we're trying to get ready. We're hoping once this goes through and is approved, that will give us permission to start looking to hire an administrator and get them on board as soon as possible. So then we have the best period of time to start hiring the staff that we need to have in there. Page 28 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. There's a few minute little spots in there just in the very beginning. Section 2I think you need an "of'between maintenance and County. And then there's no space after the comma for 143. That's minor and that can be fixed. But I have some more, you know, larger questions. I think Section 4-2-1 could be slimmed down to just dogs and cats, instead of saying lost, stray, homeless, or diseased. I think just simplicity instead of so detailed might up being good. Just going down my list real quick. Those are more minor. That's more minor, that can be up to discussion. One thing I wanted to check on because it's very clear as I ran through this document. We have animal control officers and we have every officer. So, for seizer of dogs by officers (Section 4-4-21). Then it says, "Every officer shall seize any unlicensed dog found running at large." So, is that purposeful on behalf of the makers? Or is that going to be defined later as animal control officers? ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, I know the makers will want to respond, but I'm wondering,just to keep all your questions, and then they can respond at one time? Go ahead, keep with your questioning. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so I think that is a question that I have. Every officer versus animal control officers. And then tying that into watching the Chief's inauguration speech in Kona and talking about trainings. I think about our officers in the field and putting dogs in the back of patrol vehicles, I think is going to be problematic, and maybe even problematic now. Because those are pretty nice cars they have. So, I'm just trying to tie that altogether into one nice little picture, so we can really take a look at that. I'm looking at Number(5) under Seizure of licensed stray dogs. It's always been a question to me, is how much money we take in for someone who's lost their dog. For impoundment, I think it should be pricey, which prohibits people from letting their dogs loose and letting them run and become problems. On the back end of that, if we do take in large amounts of fundingI'm thinking back to our Mass Transit audit and having cash sitting around and then getting us in trouble. So, if this is to be deposited by the fifth day of the following month with the Finance Director, what it's doing in the meantime as it's sitting there. I don't want us to get into any trouble with an audit in the future. Then finally, this may be a question more for Deanna. Oh, but first Dispatch. Is Dispatch still handling all the phone calls for animal control, or will this new agency handle the phone calls specific to animal calls? Because I know Dispatch gets calls for everything now, and they're already overwhelmed. And although Page 29 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 we have a new Communication Center coming, are calls going to be fielded by this new agency or by the Police general dispatch number we have right now? Then finally, cost. We're talking about a new agency, a new working group; a new Director of Animal Control Protection Agency. I know some great names have been floating around the community for a long time, but at the same time, what's it going to cost? We've given and we've really dived into how much it costs for Rainbow Friends, Rainbow Warriors to run and operate, but as we've taken over, our costs has just continued to climb, and climb, and climb. So, if we take this over and create a new agency, appoint an Animal Control Protection Administrator, our costs are going to go up. And if we have new offices? You know the drill, this is government. This is how we grow, but it's also very expensive. So, that's a big question is what's it going to cost to do this? That might be a question more for Deanna, who probably doesn't want to hear me ask that question, but here we are. So, yeah, if you can give me answers that's great. If you want to wait to next week or two weeks for now, great. You want to do it by email, that's fine, or reply to the whole Council would be better. That is some of my questions. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Maybe we can walk back, starting with the costs, and then the management of it, and then back to makers of the bill. So, Deanna, we'll start with you and then Major Wana. Just the mechanics of what, you know, the calls is what I've heard. Then some of the nuts and bolts of the words on paper we can take back to the makers of the bill. Go ahead, Deanna. (Note: At this time, Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SAKO: So, we have been working on next year's budget and whether we keep it as part of Police, or make a separate agency, their costs are going to grow. I mean, I think that's just what we're finding. The cost of dog food, if we can even get it. Things like that. Costs are constantly going up. Vet bills, things like that. So, no matter what, it's going to go up. Plus, our facilities are not in good shape, and we did talk about that this morning when we talked about the bond. So, there's just going to be increased costs no matter what. There is going to be personnel costs, but I don't know if that's going to be much different than what it is at Police, if they were able to fill all the positions. So, we are trying to add a few more clerical positions. That would be one of the next things that comes that we hope to maybe slide in to have it, you know, progress as the bill moves forward so that we could start hiring to accommodate that July 1st transition. I don't know what else you want to hear. The costs are going to go up no matter what. So, it is what it is. Page 30 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Quick question then, if we do these long-term contracts, is that cheaper than having officers do the same work? MS. SAKO: A police officer doing the same work? Yeah, for sure. Definitely, that should be cheaper. But in addition, I think just having permanent positions should hopefully attract additional people to fill those positions. You know, because being on contract, it's not real secure. So, if you're looking for a job, I think that's not helping people want to apply for those positions. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you, Deanna. Let's go back. Let's touch on dispatch then. MS. WANA: So, currently, Police Dispatch does handle all of the afterhours and emergency calls. We had a clerk that was answering calls, but she's been on maternity leave. So, we have currently an ACO (Animal Control Officer) or staff member answering phones. Maybe about a month ago, we had come before Council and sought approval for a Clerk Dispatch position, and that would be the ideal positions that we would create for the Animal Control Agency. The existing Clerk position would beagain, to me ideally, converted into a Clerk Dispatch, and so that you can have someone answering the calls seven days a week, at least during business hours. What would happen afterhours, it's kind of up in the air. I don't think it's been discussed in that thought process in depth. You know, you could consider a call service. You could have somebody just answering calls after-hours for the emergency types of things. But I think the most prudent thing to do would be to remove it completely from Police Dispatch because animal calls have increased dramatically on the already overstressed, overburdened 911 dispatchers. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Agreed. MS. WANA: Did you have any other questions? Anybody else had questions on the dispatching side of it? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I still have the floor, but then, maybe after. MS. WANA: Okay. Sorry. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No,just touch on, "every officer shall seize." That to me is interesting right now. MS. WANA: You want to come and chime in on that? So you know, even though the agency becomes an entity, that doesn't preclude police officers from enforcing the law. They are still law enforcement officers, and they can enforce Page 31 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 all of the State, County, and even Federal laws. An so, that's where I believe some of that language comes in, but I'm sure Ms. Wan can assist in that. (Note: At this time, Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. WAN: I was trying to look up my redlined draft that I had circled to the group, because I did write down the exact explanation for that particular point, but it's basically expanding on what Major Wana was stating. The officer was more the generic term, officer, because there's more than just animal control officers. There's police officers, there's DLNR officers. There are other officers that would otherwise be provided powers for seizure under the HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes) statute, and I wanted to make sure that this applied basically to all of those officers within our County. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, and then the term, "shall." MS. WAN: Yeah. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. MS. WAN: I mean I understand the hesitation, because right now, we're trying to adjust everything from the Humane Society to an Animal Control Officer. So, I know the main focus of the changes that are in this bill are for that. But at the same time, we don't want to necessarily limit the powers and authority of other officers that may also come in contact with animals. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I agree. I just want to make sure we're on the same page when we move forward, because that means if something happens—and I've seen this in the past. Something happens in the community; 911 gets a phone call; the police show up and they can't take the dog; dog's gone. They need animal control to take the dog, and it becomes just kind of a floating thing of what happens next? Then, there's no resolve for the community. MS. WAN: Well, there is under HRS 711. There are powers to police officers specifically in order to seize animals, because there's also a provision under 711 where law enforcement can apply for a search warrant in order to go onto property to basically seize an animal that is otherwise being abused. So, that would be an animal control officer working with law enforcement in order to basically effectuate that task. Because the powers, obviously, to get a search warrant are not within animal control, it's within law enforcement. Page 32 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 MS. WANA: To address the question about putting them in police cars. That's not likely to happen, because there's far more than just throwing a dog into a car, especially if they're not a very nice one. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I agree that's why I think there needs to be a real solid discussion, not just us and HPD, but our patrol officers, and what we want to happen; what the community wants to happen. Because we've seen this for too long, yeah, and how it really lays out when it's in the field. So, that needs some good discussion. Chair, I'm going to yield, because my times up and I asked most of my questions, and I got some good answers. I'll let everybody else go. Come back to me if you can. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Anyone else? Ms. Kimball, and I know he had a question for you. So, maybe if you want to start there? And then any other comments. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, actually Deputy Corp. Counsel Wan. I saw you waiving your hand back there, and I think you know, one of the questions with respect to the list of responsibilities and that language. It's in Section 4-2-1. Those words all have meaning as they tie back to the HRS, but you can go ahead and add to that. MS. WAN: Yes. Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan, and I'm sorry, I just realized I didn't introduce myself at the last comment. But, yes, I understand that, right now, the statute seems a little bit cluttered by saying, "unlicensed, lost, stray, homeless, or diseased dogs." That particular verbiage is straight from the HRS under Chapter 143, and it's talking about specifically having the authority of the County to create pounds to deal with those types of—that specific line of animals. So, unlicensed, lost, stray, homeless, or diseased dogs. So, that's basically just an image going back from the HRS, specifically, that gives the County the authority to create these pounds. And again, pounds is the HRS word. MS. KIMBALL: So that, I think it addresses all of Council Member Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder's question. With the exception of just to clarify, the amendments here in Chapter 4 are really just to take out the references to the Humane Society. We are not making any policy amendments. So, we're like not changing who's responsible for what. Certainly, hear you about the fees and their appropriateness, and I think that's already been discussed. And you know, that will be a part of the next phase of this. We did miss one reference. So, I do have an amendment, if there's no further discussion on the bill. I'll save the amendment to the end when there's no further discussion on the bill. Page 33 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kimball, you're yielding the floor? Thank you. Hang on Ms. Kagiwada, only because I know you asked questions before. I wanted to check with my other colleagues who hadn't had a chance to speak on the measure. If they have any questions. Ms. Kagiwada, go ahead. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Two quick things. Back to the section you were just referring to, Section 4-2-1, I'm just wondering does dangerous dogs or impounded dogs from neglect and abuse, is that covered in there somehow? It says, "unlicensed, lost, stray, homeless, or diseased dogs." MS. WAN: So, the dangerous dogs actually comes under Chapter 4. So that authorization comes from Chapter 4, and HRS 143-7 provides the County additional means for regulating animals. So, the dangerous dogs that the County has already started to regulate under Chapter 4 falls under Chapter 4. So, the purpose of creating the pound is, it was given its power from the HRS. From that power, the County has thus expanded it. So, what we're saying through this particular bill is that the Animal Protection Agency should be running those pounds to cover all of those things. To cover also the purposes of 143, 711, which is under the Hawaii Revised Statutes and Chapter 4 which is our—for lack of a better term, regulation of animals chapter. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, great. So, they are covered in there somewhere? MS. WAN: Yes. MS. KAGIWADA: Just not right in that paragraph. Okay, great. Then my last thing is for the makers of this bill. I noticed in Section 2- , the Powers and duties of animal control ... Number(4) "shall make periodic reports to the managing director, concerning the affairs and activities of the agency, including pound operations." I saw that it was struck out of Section 4-2-7, Quarterly report required, which is reporting to the Mayor and the Council. And I'm just wondering, in order for the public to know what's going on, is there a way that we could include the Council in some of these reports so that the public will know what's going on? MR. LORD: So that would raise the question, we're creating an agency here just like Mass Transit Agency, and those people report to the Mayor's Office and delegate it to the Managing Director. So, I would want to engage in a discussion we're more than happy to go ahead and make reports to the County Council, but I'm not sure right now we're mandating through legislation that reports come to the County Council from Mass Page 34 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 Transit or Civil Defense. So, I would want to stay in line with what we're doing with those agencies also, whatever we do. MS. KAGIWADA: We do ask the Housing Administrator to report directly to the County Council, correct? MR. LORD: Through legislation. So, we can go ahead and look into that. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kagiwada. Any other members? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just thinking out loud, Ms. Kagiwada, that's a great question. What has come up before is what was lacking with the Humane Society. It was that they never came back in front of the Council. The public didn't know what was going on, the Council didn't know what was going on, and no one was responsible to anyone. So, the oversight that's given by having that discussion, the Council provides the transparency back to the public which makes everybody happy, and it's really easy. So, I would highly suggest listening to Ms. Kagiwada on that one. That was a great point. MR. LORD: Thank you. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Ms. Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. It's been a long day, so I just want to recap the conversation to make sure I understand what we're voting on and can articulate this to my constituents. So, based on the demonstration, the pilot that's happening within the Police Department, Animal Control, the recommendation is to create an agency within the County, correct? Okay. Just, Animal Control Protection Agency, thank you. Should this ordinance pass, the next step would be to hire an administrator? MR. LORD: Yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. So, would the administrator then be working with members of the community who has an expertise in animal control and protection to define the scope of the agency? Because under this ordinance, they have the ability to adopt a set of rules to further articulate and specify scope and responsibilities. MR. LORD: Council Member Kimball, I'm not sure what the discussion was around that. My hesitancy in answering is, where our original goal was to get an Page 35 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 agency administrator on by April, and we want of course to get the community input. But setting up so fast and getting our offices in line for staff to expand where these offices need to be renovated. We have a lot of energy going into that at this point in time. Simultaneously, we can figure out how we can get the community involved. So, I can't sit here and say, yes, we'll have the agency administrator getting community input. But, as rules get created we're going to use that same group of people including our Council Members in the beginning because of where we want to go. We want to do that as thoughtfully as we can, so we're not going to rush it. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Any rules, Director Sako and Deputy Wan, goes through a Public Hearing process; any rules that are adopted. So, there is opportunity for community members to weigh in. And helping to shape the rules, but also, once a draft is published, they can testify. MR. LORD: Yes. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Once the administrator is hired, developing the rules, and then also helping to understand what source of resources, staffing; training of staff is needed to run the agency affectively and efficiently. MR. LORD: Yes. So, we've been including Human Resources (HR) in our discussions also, and they're kind of ready to help us with the creation of these job descriptions because it's been done by contract in the past, and those were not positions that we held. So, HR is going to help us with all of that, but we have very good ideas and we have drafts of what we'd like to see so we can move forward with those discussions. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. So, if the idea is to hire somebody by April, by the May version of the budget, we should have more specificity around what's needed to staff, maintain, operate the agency. Director Sako? Because I think there's a general sense right now, but just want to make sense of it. MS. SAKO: No, I think that's true, but you know, Police has had several people working on the Animal Control project. So, they were able to come up with a list of suggested positions, which hopefully we'll be bringing forward soon, so that we can get the director in place by April 1st, so that we can work on a smooth transition. Then, as we discussed this morning, you know, facilities is a big need as well. So, there's going to be a lot of things going on simultaneously. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: There's a lot of moving pieces. MS. SAKO: Yeah. Page 36 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay,just want to make sure I'm wrapping my head around everything and understanding the whole picture so we can articulate that to our community, and there's a lot of passion and interest in this topic. So, definitely support, you know, what's being brought before us today and just want to thank my colleagues, Council Members Kimball and Evans for their hard work on this. And Senator Richards, if you're listening, we mahalo you too. Thanks Chair, I yield. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Anyone else. Mr. Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you. I just want to mahalo the introducers. I know there's been testimony regarding Chapter 4 and the horse before the cart. It can be seen either way, and right now with the budget coming up, I think it's important for the public to know if we're going to kind of make this transition. Now is the time, and the Administration has set in motion, some of this transition already. So, Chapter 4 exists, and we can tackle that as we see fit, but mahalo you folks for introducing this now. I'll be supporting it today. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Ms. Galimba, go ahead. MS. GALIMBA: It's late in the day, so I won't say much, but just to say thank you to all of you for working on this and making it happen. It's so important, so thank you. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Galimba. You know, we're heading to the homestretch, and I know you have an amendment. I know we have one more committee, but I will make this quick. In listening to the rest of my colleagues, this question is for Deanna because we have a piece of legislation that we're entertaining right here right now in January in hopes to kind of keep it on track and hope to maybe get it done by March and hire in April. My concern is, this legislation shall take effect upon July 1, 2023, and I'm just wondering if the mechanics of this. This is maybe for Deputy Wan, should take effect upon passage? MS. WAN: Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan. If this were to take effect upon passage, it would literally create the agency without any of the groundwork, and it would be creating a sandcastle. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Okay, so that point, and thank you for sharing that. One thing we stood up a couple years ago, was a fiscal impact statement, and I think a lot of my colleagues are leaning in on that. What is this going to cost? You know, and how do we do it all? Page 37 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 So, I already spoke to Deanna about this, and a fiscal impact statement for proposed ordinance, that affects the revenues, expenditures, taxes, and fiscal liabilities of the County may be initiated. So, if it's okay with you, I've already drafted that request, and Deanna I'll go ahead and have staff forward that to you. Maybe, I think it's before Second Reading, we will have some of this granular information that we're going to need in the final throws of decision-making. But I just wanted to alert you guys to that request. That's my final comments. Ms. Kimball, I think you have an amendment. MS. KIMBALL: Yes, thank you, Chair. Motion to amend Bill 22 with the contents of Communication No. 91.1. Motion to Amend: Ms. Kimball moved to amend Bill 22 with the contents of Comm. 91.1. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. This amendment is really mostly clerical. We needed to replace "a"with "and"before animal, and then we missed one reference to the Police. So just making sure that the Police Chief is amended to refer instead to the Animal Control and Protection Administrator. So, fairly straightforward. Thanks Chair. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Any comments on the amendments? If not, I'll go ahead and take a vote. All those in favor of amending Bill 22 with the contents of Communication 91.1,please say "aye." Vote on Motion The motion to amend Bill 22 with the contents of to Amend: Comm. 91.1 was carried by the following voice vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Kierkiewicz, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Villegas, and Acting Chair Lee Loy —9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Page 38 GOEAC-3 February 7,2023 ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Back to the main motion, as amended. Any comments, questions? Seeing none, members, all those in favor of Bill 22, as amended, please say"aye." Vote on Bill 22: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 22, as (Draft 2) amended to Draft 2, on first reading was carried by (Approved) the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Kierkiewicz, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Villegas, and Acting Chair Lee Loy—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: I believe that gets us to the end of the agenda. ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 3:53 p.m., Mr. Inaba moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kimball, Kierkiewicz, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Villegas, and Acting Chair Lee Loy—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Mr. Clerk, we have nine"ayes" to adjourn this meeting at 3:53 p.m. Thank you. Approved: &,---yp---)4-----' 322 23 Ms. Cindy Evans air (Date) Government Ope tions and External Affairs Committee CE/dt Page 39