HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN CRCOC 2023/02/21 (2022-2024)Committee on Communications,
Reports, and Council Oversight
3`'d Session
West Hawaii Civic Center
74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A
Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
February 21, 2023
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Communications, Reports, and
ORDER: Council Oversight was called to order at 1:02 p.m., in the Council Chambers,
Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms.
Rebecca Villegas, Chair
Ms.
Jenn Kagiwada, Vice Chair
Ms.
Cindy Evans, Member
Ms.
Michelle M. Galimba, Member
Mr.
Holeka Goro Inaba, Member
Ms.
Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member (came in later)
Ms.
Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member (came in later)
Absent and Excused: Mr. Matt Kaneal`i-KI einfelder, Member
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Item.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The Chair called Renee Young, who registered to comment regarding
Comm. 1089 and came forward when called.
Renee Young: Comment.
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COMMUNI-
CATIONS:
February 21, 2023
Comm. 1089: REQUESTS DISCUSSION WITH THE ADMINISTRATION, IRONMAN
(2020-2022) RACE DIRECTOR DIANA BERTSCH, AND THE HAWAII POLICE
DEPARTMENT REGARDING THE IRONMAN WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP
RACE EVENT HELD IN KAILUA-KONA ON OCTOBER 6 AND 8, 2022
From Council Member Rebecca Villegas, dated October 24, 2022.
Postponed: November 15, 2022
January 24, 2023
(Note: There is a motion by Ms. Kierkiewicz, seconded by Ms. David to close
file on Comm. 1089.)
CHR. VILLEGAS: At this time, I'd like to invite Ms. Diana Bertsch. I know it's
a high ranked Officer Bird, but is it Captain? Major okay, got you. Sorry I'm a
rookie on those things. At this time I just want to thank both of you for being
here. We had planned to have this meeting a long time ago, but due to
extenuating circumstances it wasn't possible. But thank you for continuing to
honor the request, and come and share with us some updates. Go right ahead,
yup, just push the button on the front and state your name.
(Note: At this time Ironman Race Director Diana Bertsch came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. BERTSCH: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. My name is Diana
Bertsch, Senior Vice President for World Championship Events for the Ironman
Group. And although we had many successes hosting the world championship in
2022 after not being on the island in three years. Unfortunately, we found out
very fast that it wasn't the right direction. So we did have successful days of
racing, it was positive impact economically to the community. However it was
incredibly overwhelming for the community, especially on the Thursday race, to
be able to get around on a typical work day.
So after meeting with people in this room and meeting with the Mayor and talking
through it a decision was made to go back to one day of racing. So in 2024 we'll
actually have two Ironman World Championship events. One will be located here
in Kona Hawaii on October 14, it will be a women's only race. And there will be
a men's only World Championship, taking place in Nice France on
September 10h.
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CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you.
(Note: At this time Police Department Major Sherry Bird came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. BIRD: Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for having me, I'm Major
Sherry Bird with the Police Department. I kind of prepared a little bit of
background on what we did for 2022. So historically we all know that the
Ironman has usually been just one day and held on a Saturday. So the Hawaii
Police Department provides police services, which includes traffic direction,
police escorts, plain clothes uniform patrol assignments, normally using special
duty officers. So when I say special duty, that's officers who are on their off-duty
time.
It's always been a challenge to find enough special duty officers to cover, you
know, the event. However because it was usually held on a Saturday, you know,
we were able to usually get that done. So I bring up the fact that it's usually held
on Saturday because the bulk of the officers that normally work the assignment
they're usually on an Administrative work schedule. Meaning they work Monday
through Friday, typically having Saturday's and Sunday's off.
So last year in 2022, because the first race event was on a Thursday the Special
Duty platform wouldn't work for us, because the bulk of the officers who would
normally work it would actually, you know, be working. So in order to have
enough officers available to work the Thursday and make sure we cover it safely,
the Officers would have to be on on -duty status. And then to be consistent the
second race date on Saturday would need to be staffed in the same manner. So I
can't speak to the specifics of our department budget because I'm not familiar
with that, but I am aware that our budget did not include funding for the on -duty
officers to work the two days.
And then early September 2022, I'm aware that then Acting Chief
Kenneth Bugado, he received confirmation that funding was available and
authorized to use on duty personnel. So as far as personnel and scheduling goes,
you know, in addition to providing for the overall safety and security for the event
our department's primary goal or role, was to provide traffic directions at the
many intersections along the race route. In the months leading up to the event
date, our department along with many other involved agencies began meeting
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with Ironman planning personnel, and you know, began planning for the road
closures, traffic athlete patterns, personnel placement staffing, all of that details.
In order to staff this event in a safe manner for each race date we had to involve
basically all of our departments, divisions, and sections. So for patrol divisions,
normally we have three shifts working in any 24-hour time period. So we have
our graveyard, our overnight shift, we have our day shift, and then we have our
swing shift. So what we did was we adjusted our patrol shifts to basically 12 -hour
shifts where our graveyard officers worked a couple hours later than normal. Our
swing shift came in a couple hours earlier than normal, and that left us with our
day shift officers personnel to assign to work this event from across the island.
We also utilized our specialized units such as our CP section Community
Policing, our Traffic Enforcement Unit, Juvenile Aid, Criminal Investigation, and
our Vice Sections to fill in various post where needed.
So on Thursday, which was the first race date, we utilized a total of 152 officers
for these event assignments. This included manning 34 traffic intersections,
including our Special Response Team, our Crisis Negotiation Team, Bomb
Squad, and our Foot Patrol Teams, as well as our Operations Center Staff. And
then on Saturday the second day, a total of 141 Officers were used. So, I did want
to note that outside of any assignments related to the Ironman event island -wide
in each district between excuse me—during the two race dates patrol officers
remain available and continued to respond to calls for service or police service.
And in addition personnel from our departments' Criminal Investigation Division
and Administrative Division were also available to conduct their duties and if
needed available to respond to any investigation that required their attention. So
as far as traffic pattern variations, so we go in at the Police Department in hopes
of minimizing areas of—sorry and working with Ironman personnel. You know,
the idea is to minimize areas of lengthy traffic congestion. So in doing that there
were a few variations, so I think most notably is using the divided highway Queen
Ka`ahumanu Highway. North bound vehicle traffic was allowed between Palani
Road and Keahole Airport Road.
Also in the same stretch of highway, north bound athletes utilized the south bound
lanes until they crossed over on Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway at the Kaiminani
Drive intersection. And then same with south bound athletes they also use the
south bound lanes of the highway. And then as you get more into the old
industrial area, the athletes utilized Loloku Street via the other target access road
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to march back on to Kuakini Highway. And I think the remainder of the race
course, remained generally the same as years past. Also to facilitate a consistent
slow as much as possible of the uphill traffic, three traffic posts were added. One
at route 190 and Kaiminani that's at the top of Kaiminani Drive and the two
entrance/exits of the Kawaihae Harbor just for Thursday only though, because
that was a normal business day for them.
Traffic and crowd, you know when we planned for this, safety for everyone
involved was our utmost priority. Our residents, visitors, athletes, and our
officers as well as mitigating traffic concerns. Major vocal points during the
planning stages, careful attention was given to each intersection to ensure the plan
traffic patterns allowed for consistent flow of traffic as safety permitted. And I do
just want to emphasize as safety permitted. You know, we don't want people to
get hurt and unfortunately there is traffic congestion, we recognize that. But our
end goal is to not have anybody get hurt.
So with this in mind and as previously mentioned, we asked for and received
approval to utilize the north bound lanes of the highway. And the availability of
these traffic lanes, kept the north bound vehicle traffic free flowing for the most
part. In addition on the event dates, command staff, which included myself were
located in operation center with representatives from many other agencies and we
constantly assessed the need for keeping intersections closed. As soon as it was
safe and practical to do so, we opened up the intersections.
In spite of the above we are also aware that there were traffic issues that were
identified primarily at Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway and Keahole Airport Road,
and Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway and Kaiminani Drive. Reports of vehicles
backed up for long periods of time within the Keahole Airport (Kona International
Airport) corridor, as well as along Kaiminani Drive. And we also noted that the
most congested time period was when the bicyclists were coming back into Kona,
as bicyclists were heading out to Hawi.
And then also Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway and Makala Boulevard in the
evening east bound traffic on Makala below the highway, they were backed up for
periods of time during the evening hours. Old airport was used as a spectator
parking area. They could park and then walk down to the finish line and what
not, and when it was time to leave there's only that one exit out so that created a
little bit of a backup.
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Along with the traffic concerns we were also very concerned as we were planning
good, managing the spectator crowds. Especially you know this event hadn't
been held for the previous two years, and we expected a larger crowd than usual
upwards to 20,000 people were the figures that we were receiving. However, I
am pleased to report there were no major issues as far as crowds were concerned.
The crowds were manageable, and all complaints received were minor in nature
and quickly addressed by our foot patrol teams.
So as mentioned, you know, the Ironman event is going back to the one day event
on Saturday. So this will allow the use of special duty officers and as preplanning
happens in the months leading up to the event date, we'll continue to work closely
with the other involved agencies with Ironman planning staff. Of course, giving
careful consideration to each intersection with the idea of reducing the traffic
burden, but most importantly while preserving safety for everyone.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Major Bird. Thank you, Ms. Bertsch. At this
time we'll open up for comments and questions from Council Members. Yes,
Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Hi, thank you so much for being here and
giving us all this information. Just wondering as far as letting residents know
ahead of time when the events are going to be and what to expect, and where
issues may arise, is that part of your—do you have that funds to do that and how
do you do that? Do you think that's working well, or do you think that could be
improved?
MS. BERTSCH: You know it's a constant effort. I definitely think that in 2022
because the race hadn't been here it was very challenging to get the word out.
But we did actually host a talk -story at King Kamehameha Kona Beach Hotel.
Every month we went there and invited the community, we also did a talk story at
Hale Halawai, and then we went to business organizations, Kona-Kohala
Chamber of Commerce. I mean, you name it we spoke to organization after
organization. And it's one of those things media, radio, newspaper, print, we did
it all, and I think it just was not on people's radar, simply because it hadn't been
here.
I think there's a lot of new people living on the island that maybe heard about it
but weren't clear on what Ironman was and so we'll continue to do that. We also
started a Live Aloha campaign that does reach out to the athletes and shares. We
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actually worked with a couple of Council Members here to share what Hawaii is
about and how to take care of the island. And I think it was really positive and
well received, and it's a matter of that continuing to grow and just continuing
education.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thanks. Has your organization signed the Research
and Development Pono Pledge, do you know about that?
MS. BERTSCH: So part of our Live Aloha campaign was the Pono Pledge. And
so we actually had stickers that you can come in and wear, that said I've taken the
Pono Pledge. We didn't put it out just to our athletes, but to media, VIP's (Very
Important Person), our staff, everybody that came to the island. We pushed it out
through electronic, direct mails. Prior to the event, it was on our website. We
have a community site as well that has the Pono Pledge. And pretty much any of
our marketing for the event would have a badge that was live aloha and there's
always a connection to the Pono Pledge.
MS. KAGIWADA: That's great. What do you do if one of your athletes or
somebody is involved in the event, if you find out or you see that they're not
living up to the Pono Pledge?
MS. BERTSCH: Well I think it depends on what that means, because the Pono
Pledge is really just about, you know, if you go to the extent of it some of it is just
being filled with aloha, common courtesy isn't greeting somebody. So if
somebody doesn't greet somebody, there's not a lot we can do about it. But if
somebody is disrespecting, breaking the law, and it's brought to our attention or
we're able to identify it, what we can do people do know there's different areas
where they can risk disqualification from the event.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you so much.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Council
Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. It seems like people were really used to having it on a
Saturday, so I'm kind of glad you're going back to a Saturday because the
community really had that down. But I represent the north end of the island,
North Kohala. And I must say that the people that are in Kawaihae, the
businesses, the people out in Hawi, the people along the coast, have really
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complained to me that they've lost a lot of money even on a Saturday. So when
you shut things down when there's all the restaurants, and the ocean sports, and
people playing in the ocean and doing a lot of stuff, and that's what my
community provides. They can't do it.
And so, I know that Ironman likes to give donations to the community. And
you know, my request would be, give the donations to the communities that are
losing business, you know, not to Kona. I would rather see the money go up to
Hawi and Kawaihae Harbor, and some of those businesses, Waikoloa the ones
that really have no business that day. I know people that do a lot of homes, you
know, they take care of homes, landscaping, cooking, handyman, whatever, and
they lost out on that day.
MS. BERTSCH: You know, it is one of those things that we hear not all
businesses make money during the time that we're here. This year the overall
economic impact to the State was $159 million. And what that is, is some of
what's not seen is the tax dollars that come back into the State and to the County
as well. And for there to be an economic impact of that magnitude, I think what's
happening in some of the businesses is they may be impacted on the Saturday but
there's people here on the island during that time that are definitely spending,
which is impacting the overall Island and the State.
There's no way any event, whether it's a sporting event or an art event or
whatever, that special event that comes into any community is going to positively
touch every single person and single business on the island. I wish we couldI
do know that we make an effort outside of the fact that people are coming in and
spending money, is through the Ironman Foundation to work with non -profits.
And any of the groups that are volunteering, getting donations.
This year, I want to say our donations from the Ironman Foundation, in itself,
were over $200,000. So it is something that we're aware of, and that you wish
that everybody could be positively impacted. And unfortunately, like I say, no
matter the event or even if a cruise ship comes in town not everybody is going to
be positively impacted by that.
MS. EVANS: Well you just made a comment that as a $159 million impact to the
community, and yet how much does the Ironman make?
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MS. BERTSCH: You know, off this event it actually is not—it's the Ironman
group and the brand that's world-wide. And this event definitely is where it's all
started, but this event in itself is not profiting that way because of what is spent to
produce the event.
MS. EVANS: But you're doing this for a profit?
MS. BERTSCH: It's a for profit organization, Ironman is, yes. It's a business.
MS. EVANS: You make it on merchants and—about the fees that when they
have to pay to get in the race.
MS. BERTSCH: Yes, but the entry fees collected don't cover the expense to host
the race. To produce the race.
MS. EVANS: Well I for one believe that $200,000 isn't much considering the
impacts on our community. I don't know how you evaluated on our side of the
equation, but you know there is some major impacts. The small businesses where
I'm at, they're really small businesses less than probably 20 people businesses.
It's a big hit for them, even for one day. I don't know how we get the money out
at the north end, but somehow we need to work with maybe the Mayor and the
Administration. You know what I think we need to really understand what the
true impact is. I know you say it brings money, but it also costs a lot of people
too. So somehow, we got to figure that out. And I know for one, my community
is really demanding of me to figure that one out. So thank you for being here.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Council
Member Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. Is anyone available from Finance on this call or in
Hilo Chambers?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: No one from Finance in Hilo.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. I think I'll just
boil it down. The two days was difficult, so thank you for taking in community
feedback. Even ahead of this last race and bringing it back down to one day. I
want to really mahalo all of our police and fire ohana who if not for them, I don't
even know what this place would be during those days. So, we get ready for the
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next race already in just a few months. I think we've made big improvements just
in some of the meetings we've had in preparation for this last year. And we can
continue to make that progress on how to educate and inform participants and
even their ohana who come on how to act when they're here in our community.
I just want to mahalo Council Member Villegas for bringing this forward. Maybe
I'll just make one last comment. Perhaps the question when it comes to putting
up County employees on -duty, did the Ironman arrange for those rooms or were
those accommodations directly with the hotels?
MS. BERTSCH: Yes, that's correct. We actually worked directly with the
hotels, for necessary agency. In most locations that we host our race, there is a
race operation center, an emergency operation center that is available to us. And
here since we have to put our own in place, because the location is in Hilo it
requires a unique format. And I will say that we coordinate that, and we never
provided any information to people to the agencies. We just state that there is a
room available because of safety matters and that it's all night. I need people to
be there. So that's how we've managed it in the past, and how we hope to
continue to manage it for the safety of the event in the community.
MR. INABA: Thank you. And thank you for providing that opportunity for our
members of our agencies who are there overnight. I think as a County and
working with you moving forward, we'll make sure that process is clear. Because
I think there were unfair accusations made after this last race. So that would be
perhaps one of my recommendations that we make sure those lines are clean,
especially when people are on duty.
MS. BERTSCH: Absolutely. Whatever steps Ironman needs to take, we will
absolutely do so. So thank you very much, Council Member Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you, Ms. Bertsch. Chair, I yield.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, I just wanted to let you know that Director Sako has
entered chambers in case folks have questions for her.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Mr. Inaba, would you like to ask a question?
MR. INABA: Sorry, real quick. Director Sako, when it comes to this next year.
How do we plan to kind of foresee the anticipated cost that the County is going to
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incur, and what resolution or how we're going to plan ahead to make sure that the
County's funds are reimbursed by the Ironman?
(Note: At this time Finance Director Deanna Sako came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAKO: So I think typically, you know, they use the off-duty police officers
and that has like a separate program so they pay for those directly. If police lets
us know that overtime would be required again, then we would do it the same way
and work with Ironman to agree upon an amount. And you know, provide them
with invoice kind of like we did this time.
MR. INABA: Okay. and I mean being that we're going to go back to the one day
event, Major Bird any thoughts as to whether we're going to need that same level
of funding or we're going to be able to maybe revert back to our ways of?
MS. BIRD: Pretty comfortable we could revert back to, but you know how we're
doing it.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you so much. Thank you, Director Sako, for coming
down. Chair, I yield.
MS. SAKO: No problem.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Inaba. Council
Member Kierkiewicz did you have anything on that end? Nothing to share or
ask? Okay, with that I'll go ahead and wrap this up. Thank you, ladies, for being
here and for your patience and flexibility also with the Clerk's Office. The
intentions for bringing forth this communication a few months ago was to have
this chance to sit down. It was a little more relevant on top of everyone's mind
coming out of Ironman with a number of concerns and there were a number of
different things in the news about would it remain two days or one day.
So my intention in bringing this forth and hopefully it was divine timing that it's
now, as much of that has worked itself out with your confirmation that we are
returning to one day. So thank you for that. One of my conversations with the
number of constituents, I just really try to express that it was something that
needed to be tried, or it was okay that it was tried. And it didn't work as well for
our community, if at all. And so the opportunity in leadership is when you try
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something and it doesn't work, you revert to how it was done before or you
continue to improve on that process.
So thank you for your humility and flexibility. And transitioning back to the time
frame that serves our village and town, and predominantly the west side of the
island more efficiently and effectively. I also wanted to express my deep
gratitude for the first responders, Fire and Police, who went above and beyond.
And also acknowledge the challenges that were created for certain special units.
And inundated negative consequences of having to pull them off of other things
they were working on caused some stress there. So thank you once again for
everybody's contribution.
I had one quick question on what was anticipated Diana. So changing to the
women's only race on Saturday, do you anticipate—you know I remember
growing up here. Ironman was amazing but much smaller than the Vegas strip
kind of celebratory finish line that we have now. What are the expected impacts
in decreasing the number of racers, as we enter 2023 the women's championship
only?
MS. BERTSCH: So we anticipate, I want to say, having approximately 2,500
athletes that would include our professional athletics. We're really excited. This
was part of what we did learn in 2022, is the opportunity for the women to
predominantly have their own race. And how different that made their experience
and really with their professional athletes in our top age group, athletes not being
impacted by the men on the race course and vice versa. So in 2019, we did an
economic impact study, there's less athlete's and it was—can't quote me on this
but I want to say it was over either 50 or 60 million. So obviously, this was a
different year, but different pricing all around. We'll have more athletes than we
did have in 2019 as well.
Overall on the impact, it's interesting, you know, we have two days of racing for
the Ironman 70.3 World Championship. The women's day of racing and the
men's day of racing are two different races. So women just tried a little
differently than the men do. So
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank heaven.
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MS. BERTSCH: It might feel, you know, a little bit lighter I'm not really sure.
But we're incredibly excited about the opportunity to host all women and to really
showcase women in this sport. It's going to be a really amazing experience.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you. That's exciting to hear about. And with so many
of the issues that are coming before us, and even on a national and state platform
having to do with the support of women. I think this is exciting for us. It's
already been stated a number of times, that are already over burden infrastructure
and roadways were pushed kind of to our breaking point. So I'm grateful we are
going to navigate that differently. I was really excited for the transition in using
the roads, and still allowing for the highway to move north.
But I as Council Member Evans received a lot of comments about the challenges,
predominantly the really small businesses in Kona. So while the lion's share of
the resources does end up coming to District 7 in some capacity for Ironman. A
number of the small businesses, because there was no way to get to them they
were closed from Thursday through almost to Monday. We're navigating that
and changes are being made to continually adjust and respond to the needs and the
requests of the community. And so I'm looking forward to seeing how this year
evolves and also looking forward to the Administration continuing to work
together to ensure that it doesn't overburden our already under staffed first
responders and departments.
You know, this Ironman—we're an iron community, and we are resilient, and we
are regenerative. And so, I just really look forward to continuing to working
together with you, and ensuring that we mitigate the challenges the best way
possible, spread the resources as effectively and efficiently as possible, and
perpetuate a race that does our Big Island proud, and does more good than harm.
So thank you all for being here today.
MS. BERTSCH: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. And thank you to the
County and to our community, for allowing us the opportunity to make an effort
to see if this was something that would work. It is the community that came
together and it is why we had the successes and it is unfortunate and definitely
apologize for the disruption that it made, especially on Thursday. But thank you
all for your support and guidance along the way.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you for listening. When the community had an outcry,
you guys listened, and that is not always the case with large events or large
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companies or large governments. But you listened, and you took heed and you're
making the necessary adjustments. We just really appreciate that.
MS. BERTSCH: Thank you.
CHR. VILLEGAS: So thank you for being here today. And with that, can I take
a vote to close file on Communication 1089, all those in favor?
Vote on Comm. 1089: The motion to close file on Comm. 1089 was
(Filed): carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba
Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
and Chair Villegas — 7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and
Kimball — 2.
Excused: None.
Comm. 92: REQUESTS A DISCUSSION WITH LIEUTENANT EDWIN BUYTEN,
AREA II VICE SECTION, HAWAII POLICE DEPARTMENT REGARDING
THE DANGERS OF FENTANYL
From Council Member Rebecca Villages, dated December 28, 2022.
Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 92.
Seconded by Ms. Galimba.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you so much, and with that moving forward. Aloha
gentlemen thank you for being here with us today. I'll go ahead and let you
introduce yourselves and share the information you have brought for us.
(Note: At this time, Lieutenant Edwin Buyten and Detective Chad
Taniyama came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. BUYTEN: Thank you very much. And last time I was here you had asked
me about Fentanyl, and I saw the concern on your face. But we wanted to bring
forward today was this, we're from here we're two Konawaena guys we've been in
the department well over 20 years each. Majority of our career has been spent in
narcotics, special enforcement type units, as we grew through the department. So
our approach today was going to be more a round table, kind of an old school talk
story session, and give you a foundational look at what we're doing within the
streets. All this data and Intel we're going to provide is for West Hawaii, we'll
show you what's going on out here.
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February 21, 2023
Before we do that, let me introduce myself, I'm Lieutenant Ed Buyten. I'm the
Commander for the Area II West Hawaii Vice Narcotic's Section. I have 21 years
of policing experience, like I said, 12 of those years have been spent in Vice
Narcotics as an Officer and Detective, and now as the Lieutenant. Chad, you want
to introduce yourself.
MR. TANIYAMA: I'm Chad Taniyama. I've been with the Police Department
for 25 years now, close to the end of my career. And I have been in Vice since
2007, so majority of my career I've been in Vice.
MR. BUYTEN: So the reason I brought Chad along is I'm going to cover the data
where fentanyl comes from, what's happening here in the streets, because I care
about what's happening here. Not really a national platform, even though that's
important. I am the Administrator of the unit; Chad is the most senior Sergeant.
He also oversees the hazardous duty side of it, the PPE, what we call the Personal
Protection Equipment and the tactical side. There's a lot of detail that goes into
that job, and he's the officer in charge in the streets.
So fentanyl, I'm obviously not a doctor but I will tell you that fentanyl does have a
pharmaceutical purpose. Real simple. It helps with pain, they deal with high level
stage four cancer patients, a doctor prescribes it, and there's a use for it. The type
of fentanyl we're dealing with is illicit, it's illegal. They'll give you a little run
down a lot of times folks feel this is a little extreme, but this is how the pyramid of
narco terrorism works. You have China, which produces the most illicit fentanyl
in the world. The DEA (Drug Enforcement Administration) has it down almost to
a science, where they can tell you which province that fentanyl comes from.
The way it works is it arrives in China, and it works its way down to Mexico where
the Cartel takes over. They take control of it, they either refine it and then they
push it over into the United States. Now from there, Hawaii in general we have
high supply demand for anything really. You look at gas, you look at groceries,
well same thing works on the drug side of the house. If you can be successful to
get any illegal drug from the West Coast to Hawaii, you're looking at a huge
profit margin, huge.
Let me give you an example of some data that comes out of Hawaii Island, West
Hawaii specifically. This is the data from November of 2021 to present, our
office has recovered over 4,000 grams of pure fentanyl. Over 15,000 pills which
are forged or counter -fit pills. A tenth of a gram cost about $200 dollars, one pill
between Kona or the westside to Hilo, is anywhere from $25 to $50 a pill. So if
you do the quick math on that, this is where we're not going to impress with our
Konawaena education, is this. And I actually did the math, so if my wife is
watching right now, she is losing it. That's about $2.5 million worth of fentanyl
that we recovered. We're not counting what has made it through. Then on the pill
side of the house you're looking at about $200,000. So about $2.5 million worth
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of fentanyl came into your community, your village, right here that we recovered
in just a little over a year's time.
Now for whatever reason we have a thirst out here for opioids, we used to deal a
lot with that, the heroin epidemic, you know, there's a taskforce for these things.
Fentanyl is a hundred times stronger than morphine, and it's 50 times stronger than
heroin. The CDC, the Center for Disease Control, put out on their website that the
average lethal dose of fentanyl is 2 milligrams. So back to the math, in one gram
there's a thousand milligrams. So you cut that in half, you got 500. On any given
day on Hawaii island right, our population is right around 250,000 people, that's
residents, that's tourists. That's two million lethal doses, eight times our
population, that came into our village. It's staggering, we're recovering it every
single day.
Now the other part that we look at, which I think you're going to find really
important before I turn it over to Chad here, is what I refer to as the direct effect
and the indirect effect of drugs. Direct effect is use, trade. The indirect effect is,
forgive my direction here, is the ugly side. It's the robberies, it's the car thefts, it's
the kupuna getting their check books taken by their family members who are trying
to feed their addiction. And you're talking about the bottom of that pyramid,
where it just gets down to the nitty gritty. And that's what we're facing here every
day. That's it in a nutshell, really.
I can send you some data, be happy to email you, send you some pictures of what
we're seeing. But I wanted to kind of give you just the foundational version of
what we're dealing with out here, that's a lot to go off right now. We've also
affected, I think it's somewhere around anywhere I didn't look at it today, but 50
to 60 adult arrests of fentanyl alone. And majority of those cases over the year
give or take, went Federal. So it started with us. We built the case up and the
Federal Government liked the package that we delivered to them, and they
prosecuted these cases for us, which is a huge thing. You're held accountable in
the Federal Court at a real high level.
So I'm going to turn this over to Chad. He's going to talk about personal
protection equipment. He's going to talk about the challenges we're facing in the
streets, when we ask our officers to go out there and recover fentanyl. Thank you.
MR. TANIYAMA: Good afternoon. My boss Edwin Buyten sends me a text last
night bring your uniform you're going in front of the County Council tomorrow.
Okay. He calls me his old crusty Sergeant because I've been around the block a
few times. I've been in Vice for majority of my career, and I help mentor young
officers. In the 80's, we went through the methamphetamine epidemic. I
graduated like 89, so I saw some of that in the community, my friends and I really
never understood. We heard about fentanyl coming to Hawaii for a long time
before it hit, how dangerous it is, how addictive it is. How the minute amount can
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kill someone. After a while of hearing so many times, you got to get immune to it.
These officers are no different. Well, let me tell you we are on the frontline and
we lead the State, the State in investigations and recoveries. Fentanyl is here, I've
never seen anything like it in my 25 years. We are on the front line of the fentanyl
battle. If you don't understand that, you need to understand that now. We are on
the frontline. It went from recovering fentanyl here and there to every search
warrant we go to there is some trace of fentanyl, somewhere along in that
investigation.
Our current state of affairs just so you understand, in 2001 when we were dealing
with methamphetamine, we acquired what we call PPE. There are different levels
of protective equipment as simple as gloves and a paper mask. It moves up to a
mask with a filtered cartridge, then it elevates pretty much a scuba suit with a mask
and then it goes up from there. Again purchased in 2001, that equipment expired
in five years so in 2006 that equipment was expired. That was methamphetamine
and that was to deal with the Clandestine laboratories that were happening around
the nation. We have had several search warrants where we have had to beg,
borrow, and steal equipment to keep our men safe. We've had to call Honolulu, to
other agencies, we've had people fly on personal airlines to hand us over
equipment so we can do our job. It terrifies me to supervise a group of young
officers and send them in to a place where I know it's not if, but when one of my
officers will encounter fentanyl and get hurt. It terrifies me.
Now we're trying to catch up, we're trying to keep our officers to protect them, to
do their job to protect you as well as me. We've recruited the Police Department
to help us, and they've been a great help. They have been there when we needed
them, they would set up in case someone went down or to monitor the area to
make sure it's safe for us to even enter, excuse me, the Fire Department, yes. And
we couldn't have done it without them, there's no way we could of proceeded
without them.
So my job here is to tell you that we with all the problems that we have with
equipment, the shortage of manpower, cause our office is short. Like everyone
else our small office is short. The good news is we're winning the fight. With all
the problems that we have, we're winning the fight because we have spoken to
addicts. We come in contact with them every day, and they're saying that it's
getting harder and harder to find fentanyl, because we're doing our job. But we
need your help. If you have any influence to help us, we're in dire need of help.
Because one of my officers will get hurt, and we're running out of time.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you so much, gentlemen. With that I'll open it up to
any questions or comments from Council Members. Council Member Evans
MS. EVANS: Thank you. First of all, tell everybody thank you for their work for
us. You know, there was a task force at the State Legislature probably 20 years
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ago on the meth epidemic. And there was a lot of money put into educating
people, there was radio ads, there was television ads, there was all kinds of stuff
going into the schools, talking to the children, showing them pictures. I mean it
was this major effort. Have we stepped up to that, or are we out there doing that in
the schools, on the radio, on television, are we really getting that message out?
MR. BUYTEN: So Chad and I both started on the methamphetamine task force,
and we both worked—well I worked on the methamphetamine task force for about
seven years as an investigator and a handler. And all that information, all that
education was out there. Fentanyl just hit us. One day it wasn't here, the next day
it was here and it was game on. So yes, the Mayor is doing an outstanding job
with the task force with Dr. Kimo Alameda and various members. I just did a
KAPA radio interview with Alaka'i, where we're talking about fentanyl and
getting information out there.
We're working with State Narcotics, we're working with HIDTA (High Intensity
Drug Trafficking Areas) to get funding for equipment. Equipment is expensive,
and it comes with a lot of training and oversight. So we are moving forward on
that, we have some grants we're working on. We're hoping that there's a Hawaii
opioid initiative out of Oahu, I think it's under the State where they have money,
we're working with them. So we're moving forward nicely on it. Education -wise
at the schools, I think the DOE (Department of Education) does have something,
we don't really get involved in that, that would be more of a community policing
thing. But it is happening.
MS. EVANS: That's good to hear. The other thing that I hear is marijuana,
cannabis. People are saying that people are buying stuff on the street, and they
don't realize it's being laced with fentanyl. I'd love to hear about kind of this, we
need to get the word out. You better know what you're buying, is that true? I
mean I heard this as a statement.
MR. TANIYAMA: The short answer is yes. I'll give you an example of how it
has changed the way we do things. Normally we'll run through an investigation,
we'll arrest individuals responsible, we'll recover evidence, and we'll bring it back
to our station to process. Well the process procedure has significantly changed for
us, because now we don't know what we're dealing with. It might look like weed,
it might smell like it but absolutely we don't know if it's been laced or not.
We have come across laced marijuana, laced cocaine, imagine that laced cocaine
with fentanyl. Knowing how dangerous that is with the minute amount that can
kill you, to me that's crazy. But this is what we're dealing with. So our officers
know if there's any question they have what we have set up, a protocol in
processing evidence. We're in PPE now, we'll take it to a different room where
there's no ventilation to ensure that if it becomes airborne that it doesn't endanger
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multiple people within an enclosed room. Short answer is yes, but it has
significantly changed the way we do things.
MS. EVANS: So let's say you stop someone and you find out there's some weed
or something, then you can take it somewhere and have that tested right away? I
mean, do we have good facilities to support your effort?
MR. BUYTEN: So like any investigation, we try to educate our officers on the
dangers of things. And we're two 20 -year plus veterans sitting up here telling this
fentanyl scares us badly, and we put that into the brains of these officers every
single day because we have seen it mixed with cocaine, marijuana,
methamphetamine. If the person wants to put that into their system they might
find out, unfortunately, what they got. Our crime labs in Hilo, so we're able to do
a preliminary testing with some equipment we have, which I rather not disclose,
but we can get kind of a quick answer and then we'd have to relay that over to
Hilo.
We actually have a really good system. I saw the concern on your face there, but
our lab techs are great. And we call them up and let them know it's coming over
and we take it over very safely with protocol. But it does have to go to Hilo to be
tested, and they will break it down for us and tell us what it is. They will handle it
like its fentanyl.
MS. EVANS: Is the Federal Government—are we getting the Federal Government
or how proactive are they in our State? Are they coming out and talking to our
island, how are they interacting with us, the feds?
MR. BUYTEN: So as you know there's a lot of three lettered agencies out there
that are federal government. But the way I look at it and people chuckle at me is
they kind of got to look at how the Green Berets work with the indigenous people.
We're in the trenches. We know what's going on here day to day, and it's already
hard enough to operate in this community when you're a vice operator. The
Federal Government does work with us, some agencies more than others, based on
geographical challenges for them.
HSI (Homeland Security Investigations) Homeland Security, is our number one
partner. Homeland Security, they are there with us, they're in the trenches with us,
they're the ones adopting these cases and taking them to the federal side of the
house. But there's not many of them out there, so we work together as a team like
a multi -agency collaborative. Federal Government does have money, but that
money typically comes through an organization called HIDTA, which I believe
you all heard of. They're kind of a clearing house for trading equipment and any
other needs we might have. So they do help us a lot.
MS. EVANS: Okay, well thanks for answering that. Thank you, I yield.
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CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Anyone else? Council
Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. And thank you both for coming in today and
helping us get informed of what's out there, since I think we tend to be fairly
innocent here on the Council. I wanted to ask about my district, which is District
6, that's sort of half on the west side and half on the east side. And there are a
wide variety of communities in that district. Probably some of them more prone to
have problems with drugs and others. Is there anything you could tell me about
what's going on in my district in relations, I guess, to the rest of the State or the
Island?
MR. BUYTEN: Just confirming your district is Ka`u, South Kona?
MS. GALIMBA: South Kona, Ka`u, all the way up to Volcano.
MR. BUYTEN: Okay. There are things going on in your district, Ocean View.
I'm not picking on anybody out there, but we stay pretty busy in Ocean View. One
of the first things I do when I meet federal agencies, yeah, I'm always going to get
this smile on my face and chuckle a little bit like you might have worked all over,
but you never worked on Hawaii Island. Where 4,000 square miles, the coconut
wireless is quicker than anything you've ever seen and it really gets fast the further
south you go.
So we have our challenges out there and we do conduct investigations. I don't
want to get into how we conduct our investigations, we're more on the intelligence
side of the house. Geographically challenged, with the distance and putting
ourselves out there, we have been successful out there many times in the past. I
hope that answers your question.
MS. GALIMBA: Go ahead.
MR. TANIYAMA: Just to add what Buyten said, district big or small fentanyl has
touched every district. I can tell you for sure. We have had overdoses, even the
smaller districts of fentanyl. So it has touched every single district on this island.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Galimba, you yield? Alright.
Council Member Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. Sergeant Taniyama when you spoke about the PPE that
you folks need. Is that something that's been communicated? I don't want to get
us into a budget discussion. But as we head into that season of budget, has that
been something you've discussed, your division has discussed with leadership so
that we can ensure you folks are safe when you go into those situations or do we
need to have some conversations about that as we head into?
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MR. TANIYAMA: Let me just say that this issue is not a secret, that we need
equipment. That equipment that we acquired in 2001 expired in 2006. And we
just don't have it, I can't make it anymore clearer. You can't ignore the fact that
there's an epidemic going on and you're office doesn't have the protective
equipment. Yes, so the short answer is yes.
MR. INABA: Understood. Thank you very much. Chair, I yield.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you. Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Thank you both for being here, and for all the
work you do. My district is over on the east side. Is there a similar position to
what you guys do over on the east side or is so much of this epidemic like starting
over on the Kona side, and that's why you guys are so focused here? Can you help
me explain kind of island -wide, what the staffing and just time spent there on this
issue.
MR. BUYTEN: Absolutely. The best way to describe it is if you just cut the
island in half. You have area one east side, area two west side. We have counter
parts that mirror us on both sides. So there's a Lieutenant he was here last time,
Lieutenant Royce Serrao, and yes, he's facing the same issues. They've been
extremely busy with some investigations, and I just wasn't able to get that data.
But they're going to parallel maybe a little bit behind us, cause West Hawaii
seems to be the leader for whatever reason.
I have some ideas and thoughts behind that, but they are facing those problems and
have been dealing with them daily. And we can all sit here and talk about staffing,
we have worked different sections in the Police Department, everyone's short,
right? But in a sensitive section like Vice Narcotics, I will tell you that our officers
work at least six days a week anywhere from on average 12 hours a day. That's a
lot of hours. So the things that are presented in front of us, are challenges and it's
our job to figure out how to solve this puzzle.
So we've talked about equipment, we've applied for the grants, we're making
ground, but things move slow. But we're dealing with it today. I think I'm five or
six positions shy right now in my office alone, that's an entire squad in vice
narcotics. That's a whole unit I could send out to Ocean View. So I know
Chief Ben (Police Chief Benjamin Moszkowicz) working on that, he's trying hard
to recruit, he's doing everything he can and we support him on that. But if those
are issues, yeah— facing the same thing.
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MS. KAGIWADA: Thanks. And just a follow up I guess to what you were just
saying, are there any things that the community that we the other people could be
doing on the front end of things. So not waiting until people have fentanyl, getting
fentanyl, getting addicted to fentanyl. But what things just from your point of view
should we be looking at to, I guess, more in line with like what Council Member
Evans was saying on education, on awareness. Are there things that we could also
be doing to help with this epidemic?
MR. BUYTEN: Absolutely. And this is why we become kind of funny guys
because typically, you know, people send you here send you there. You know
where I'm going to send you to YouTube. YouTube is one of the best things to
learn about fentanyl. You can find a documentary, it's 15 minutes long, it will tell
you everything you need to know about fentanyl. Now we are villagers, we're
from here. Our kids were raised here, we're very loyal to this Island and to the
people of this island. So we encourage just like how we were raised, and we really
mean this.
Educate your families, education is such a tool. Go to the DEA (Drug
Enforcement Administration) website, look at what they're posting there. They
have videos, tutorials, and our own website has managed very well. And Denise,
who manages the website, had put links in different educational organizations that
would help you through. So sit with your children, sit with your kupuna. You see
something suspicious, or if you're concerned about it, call us we will come out.
MS. KAGIWADA: Great and thank you. One final thing, can you talk to us a
little bit about Narcan and what's the use of Narcan, how it's maybe available or
not available on our island. Anything you want to tell us about that?
MR. BUYTEN: I'm the in-house Narcan expert. You know, when we talk about
Narcan one thing I'd like to point out when we interview people, these are the
things that we learn. One part that I missed, and I want to make clear like
Detective Taniyama said, our mission and what we've decided to do is real simple.
To rid our community of dangerous drugs and we're on the offensive, we're not
going to sit back and take this. We're out there grinding and taking it to them, and
that's why we're getting the results we're getting.
The Narcan is really basic, you know it's a liquid spray that you can put up into
lack of better description your nose. And it will reverse the immediate effect of an
opioid overdose. These days you can get it pretty easily, you can get it at the
pharmacies. I know Dr. Alameda is very involved in the Narcan distribution, more
so education and helping the community members get it. And I think that's an
outstanding thing. We have it from HIDTA helps us out. Every one of our
officers carries two Narcan's on their vest and no matter where we go. When
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Detective Taniyama's running the sites, safely, we have Narcan available. It's a
great tool.
One thing that's scary, that I'll tell you about if you like to know a little story.
We've actually interviewed people who use fentanyl, and they know the effects are
so potent that they'll probably going to overdose. So they've told us they actually
sit in front of each other with the Narcan, you go and then I'll go. That's
terrifying. So we've actually gone to the overdoses, and had to help with those
investigations. So that's sometimes where the mindset is. But yeah, Narcan, great
tool.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, so much.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Council Member Evans. Yes, Council Member Kierkiewicz
did you have anything on that side?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Not a question per say, just a comment if I might,
Chair Villegas? Thank you. Really appreciate the officers coming forward today,
I'm just sitting here trying to hold back tears just thinking about what's unfolding
here on our Island. This public health crisis, really just demands our full attention.
And so if there's anything we can do to provide resources to the Police
Department, please let us know ahead of budget time. I'm right here texting
Dr. Kimo Alameda right now, wondering if there are messaging resource tool kits
available. He's got a great primer on YouTube, thank you officer for letting us
know about that.
But again, it all comes down to prevention and we as elected officials are folks that
people look up to in the community. So, we have to be leveraging our networks to
get all this information out into hands of our community, so that we can be
preventing this disaster. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Yes, Council
Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: What age group, I mean you do the demographics. So where's the
demand, is it in high school, is it college, is it 40 -year olds, is it male, female, what
have you discovered in your statistics?
MR. BUYTEN: So demographics are 18 to 45, is where fentanyl is hitting the
most in the community. You know, it's interesting when you read about, and I use
this term and again I want to use it lightly as a Narco terrorism right. Because
basically legal organizations utilizing drugs to make a profit, and or disrupt,
decentralize a country. That's happening. So your 18 to 45 is your working group,
it's your military age folks. They should be in college getting educated, having
jobs, and they're seeing more and more data on the use of fentanyl and other drugs.
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We're dealing with all the drugs here, methamphetamine, heroin, you name it we
deal with it every day. The polarizing issue though is fentanyl like Detective
Taniyama pointed out. It's in everything.
MS. EVANS: You mentioned that a pill would be what, $25 to $50 that's a lot of
money. Is it cross no bounds? I mean someone who makes an income of
$300,000 a year, verse someone making $20,000 there's no difference. Is it like
MR. TANIYAMA: No, it really doesn't make a difference. Something I'd like to
add to your last question though. There generally is an area in which users are,
right? But look at how they've changed when I say they, I mean narcotics
distributors. How they've evolved their game. I'm sure you've all seen the
pictures of the rainbow fentanyl, pink fentanyl, who do you think they're
targeting? Children, they're targeting children, right. Before all we would see is
blue pills or powder. And the very exception when we first started seeing it, it was
blue pills and powder. The pills were most sought after because they could more
control the dose. Powder was a little spooky at the beginning, because they didn't
know how to dose so we're getting a lot of overdoses with that.
And we've tried to track it, we've done our best. We haven't found the best
solution in tracking all these overdoses, but we're trying to get our hands on as
many as we can look into it. But you look at the deaths that have come some have
been below that mark, that 18 -year mark. The girl that lost her life is 14 years old.
So fentanyl will reach you at a young age and it'll hit the more mature of the
population. Because it's basically a synthetic heroin, synthetic opioid, right. So
all those heroin users it's an easy transition to go from heroin to fentanyl. And if
you look at kids the way they've been marketing themselves, they're making it
more attractive to children by the colors, right. And we're really in a bad place
right now.
MS. EVANS: One other question about the source. I know fentanyl is used
sometimes in the end of life, hospice in the hospitals when you have a cancer
patient or it's just for extremely extreme severe pain. Does it take a special doctor
a special person to have the ability to script these. I'm assuming you can't send it
in to Long's Drugs and someone picks it up, is there a chain of custody for this
stuff. I mean is it so strong that it's being controlled even at the hospitals and
hospice? Just curious.
MR. TANIYAMA: The doctor can cut prescriptions for fentanyl. I know that
there are patches. When I first started hearing about patches, people were trying to
steal patches to get their fix through the patches. And then it transitioned to
powder and pills. I really don't know if you need a special license for that, but I do
know the doctors can prescribe fentanyl.
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MR. BUYTEN: I can add to that. A physician who's licensed in the State of
Hawaii has a regulated number to write prescriptions, and it's very controlled and
it's tracked. That's the legal way of doing business for people who need it. The
fentanyl that we're dealing with is made in a clandestine lab in China sometimes
Mexico and illegally smuggled into the U.S., and sold for prohibit to capitalize on
people's addiction. So there's a line between the two, and it's a big line. The one
we're dealing with mostly, is the clandestine illegally manufactured fentanyl.
MS. EVANS: Alright, thank you.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Alright if that's it from
my colleagues. Thank you for being here. We've had a number of conversations,
and your passion and dedication and absolute tenacity to not only serve our village
and our community, but your team. And to bring him here with you today to able
to cover both sides of the Administrative and the boots on the ground aspects of
holding it back and going after it full force. Thank you for that.
You know I too am a Konawaena alum (alumni) and was here during the meth
epidemic, and now watching my daughters in their 20's and now my grandson and
considering the potential for tragic outcome. A lot of my colleagues touched on a
number of the different questions and things I may have had. Thank you for
talking about Narcan, and also the irony of it becoming kind of this like fall back
for addicts. We'll just keep it here, I'll give it to you, you give it to me. Grateful
that it's there, and grateful that it's more prevalent. I have some in my car, I've
been able to share some through Dr. Alameda speeches and presentations.
And one of the things that was mentioned was maybe even putting Narcan with the
first aid, and I'm not remembering the term but that clear, you know, if you're
having a heart attack we have those all over the place now but how to put
something like that together. So I think we've come a long way, you guys are on
the cutting edge on the front lines, and I'm so grateful that you were willing and
interested to come here today and share the blunt truth with us. Something that Dr.
Alameda had mentioned in his presentation was that someone dies, is it every 14
days on the Big Island from a fentanyl overdose?
MR. BUYTEN: So Dr. Alameda's data, I'm not so sure where he gets that from.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay.
MR. BUYTEN: I believe his data is accurate. We do know that folks die from
fentanyl overdoses, quite often. And the way that it's tracked within the Police
Department, typically falls under a coroner's inquest, and any fentanyl or
suspicious narcotic would then be tracked, tested, and we'd wait for the toxicology
to come out and put the entire investigation together. We have been to numerous
fentanyl overdoses. The commanders in the Police Department have made some
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really wise decisions and are assigning us or encouraging the let's say graveyard
rank. Let's say there's a sergeant on duty on the graveyard that responds to an
overdose, and they see a suspicious powder that just doesn't quite pass the test,
they're calling Detective Taniyama or myself to come out and help parallel with
that investigation. I hope that answers your question.
CHR. VILLEGAS: That does, thank you so much. And with that I also want to
express my humble gratitude. The tragedies that you choose in your line of duty
and your service to our community to witness, and be there for, and guide your
team through and other Police Officers as well as the families affected. It's above
and beyond, and I just want to thank you and your families for doing that for us.
and express my personal desire both personally and professionally in this role
when I'm thinking about PPE and how much it cost.
Do you have a broad spectrum because I'm thinking of contingency relief funding,
and the opportunity to help mitigate your lack of these resources, and how do we
get that to you to get those things purchased asap. As we move into the budget
cycle that's another great one, but we had the blessing and opportunity to have
more contingency relief funds allocated to each one of us as Council Members in
this last year. And I'm very interested. And we can even talk offline about this,
but there's opportunity for that. Go ahead and answer that on the PPE, like what
kind of funding are you looking for. Are we talking hundreds of thousands of
dollars, or tens?
MR. BUYTEN: As far as the funding goes, I would like to talk to you offline
about that so I can give you some accurate numbers. And one of the issues that
we've ran into, and Detective Taniyama described it is, where trying to play catch
up. And you know, while we're operating on a daily basis in these long hours,
we're trying to write grants and request funding and those things take time.
You've all dealt with that before. That's where we're at, we're just running
crossroads right now.
The equipment itself, I believe, to kit out one officer with training and the full
SCBA (Self -Contained Breathing Apparatus) system is anywhere from $25,000 to
$28,000 per officer. It's probably a little bit more than that once you get through
everything. And we're looking at—I'm going to pass it over to
Detective Taniyama, he will tell you what it takes to operate in that equipment.
MR. TANIYAMA: So you need many levels for your assessment of the initial
once you put roots in the ground, once you determine how dangerous or safe it is
for the rest of your team. Generally if we're going into a fentanyl investigation or
a search warrant, at the very minimum you need to be in an APR it's an Air
Purifying Respirator, which is a mask with a cannister that filters the air. Just to do
your assessment. If you go in your assessment and you find out that the degree of
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danger is lower, there is little to no risk of airborne contamination. Then we can
either stay in the APR or go down to a N-95 paper mask.
But if we find that it's higher degree and it is airborne or a larger amount of
fentanyl, then we would move up to an SOBA, which is basically an air tank with a
chemical suit that is able to give us clean air. The problem is not just the
equipment, the problem is the men to get in the training because you need a
minimum of four individuals kilted out. Two people because you cannot go in
alone in case somebody goes down you need somebody to pull them out, two in.
And you're going to need a minimum of two on the outside to go in to help those
individuals in case they go down, or to swish them out when the time comes that
your initial team has been there in this suit for long enough because it is very
taxing on the body, especially in Kona.
I went to a Clandestine Laboratory, in which there was an individual and she was
extracting fentanyl from patches. When we determined that it was a fentanyl issue,
patrol officers contacted us, Fire (Fire Department) was contacted, and we
basically locked this unit down. And at the time we didn't have the resources to
deal with it, now wrap your head around that. We have a unit in Kailua town, we
locked it down and we don't have the resources to deal with it. So what do we do,
we made calls to Honolulu and then the Narcotics Enforcement Division brought
down a team and helped us deal with that situation. So they brought in individuals,
they brought all their kits, we had the HAZMAT (Hazardous Materials
Management) crew couldn't have done it without them again. And eventually, we
were able to deal with that situation and bring it to a close.
So we need equipment, we need manpower, and we need the training. Currently
we have three officers on the west side. Three officers on the west side that can
deal with any type of Clandestine Laboratory fentanyl situations. Like I said
before, we need a minimum of four guys, Kona only has three currently. So on the
Hilo side, our counter parts of Hilo I believe they have five, five individuals. So
anytime we need help, or they need help we come together as a team, which isn't a
problem but we're a small unit. People go on vacation, people get sick, so when
you had eight now you're down to six, it brings up so many issues. So it's not just
the equipment, it's the manpower and it's the training. They're waiting to get
everyone certified so that we have the bodies to take care the problems that come
up.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you for clarifying on that, I appreciate that. So it's not
as simple as throwing some money at some suits. It's incredibly complex. Once
again, I just thank you both for being here. And I thank my colleagues for taking
the time to listen and learn, and hopefully reconnect with these gentlemen and find
out how we can continue to support their work, educate ourselves about this health
crisis, and educate our families and our communities, about the dangers that are all
too prevalent. So thank you again, gentlemen.
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MR. BUYTEN: Thank you.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Yes, alright. And with that I'd like to close file on
Communication 92, all those in favor?
Vote on Comm. 92: The motion to close file on Comm. 92 was carried
Filed by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Kimball, Lee Loy, and Chair Villegas — 7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and
Kimball — 2.
Excused: None.
CHR. VILLEGAS: With that Clerk Henricks we move on to our next
communication. Would anybody else like a short recess to use the restroom?
Yes, please. We'll be in recess for five minutes; we'll be back at 2:35 (p.m.).
Thank you.
Recess: At 2:30 p.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 2:36 p.m.
CHR. VILLEGAS: I'd like to call this meeting out of recess, thank you. Clerk
Henricks.
Comm. 93: REQUESTS A DISCUSSION WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF RESEARCH
AND DEVELOPMENT REGARDING HYDROGEN ENERGY PLANS
AND PARTNERSHIPS
From Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated January 13, 2023.
Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 93.
Seconded by Ms. Galimba.
CHR. VILLEGAS: At this time, I'm going to go ahead and hand this over to
Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much Chair. And so, yes this is by the request
of the Administration, and I just would like to ask Riley Saito, our energy
specialist from Research and Development to come up and share his PowerPoint
and his knowledge with us about hydrogen transformation on the Island of
Hawaii.
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(Note: At this time, Research and Development Economic Development
Specialist Riley Saito came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
MR. SAITO: Alright, so to give you a context of this presentation, it was actually
developed couple of years ago, a year -and -a -half ago. But it was to present at an
International Hydrogen Conference, hosted by the U.S. Department of Energy.
We had Research and Development submit a response to a RFI (Request for
Information) on what and how we could advance hydrogen within our County.
And based on that response, we were requested to actually do a presentation at
this international conference. So it has a little more context as far as Hawaii
County, but I think it's a good way to—well just go through the slides and you
can take look. Because it sets kind of the table where we are.
(Note: At this time, Mr. Saito provided a PowerPoint presentation to the
members of the Committee. For viewing of the presentation, see the DVD
copy of the proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or online at
http:Hhawaiicountygranicus.com. A hard copy of the presentation is
made a part of the record. See Comm. 93. 1.)
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much, Riley. I know you were joking around
earlier saying you didn't want to answer all our questions, but I think people may
have some.
MR. SAITO: No, that was for Ramzi.
MS. KAGIWADA: I have some—if it's okay if I go?
CHR. VILLEGAS: Please go right ahead.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Okay, a couple questions. Where do our rental
cars for this island like, how big of a group of vehicles is that, do you know?
MR. SAITO: I would say several thousand.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. I know you said this was kind of on the books, as of
2006, right? So what, just so I understand, you know, there was kind of this,
"yeah, let's do this." You're just getting to the point where you're getting some
big grants and some good—looks like kudos. Going forward, I'm just wondering
what have been the sticking points and what are the current sticking points with
kind of being able to go forward with this?
MR. SAITO: The previous sticking points, I think was I don't think hydrogen
was ready yet. The electrolysis, the production of hydrogen was at the end of
demand, it was the chicken -and -egg thing. There's no demand, so why would
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you produce it? The technology to produce has existed, but no one really wants to
build it if no one's going to use it.
So, just overall environmental to greenhouse gas awareness, if you think in 2006,
you may have been talking about it, but no one was really doing anything about it,
you know. They were protesting in the 60's and 70's. You know, it's taking that
long really with electricity. I mean in 2006, we were talking about just getting a
net meter law passed, right? To get PV (Photovoltaic). By that point, PV was too
expensive. Nobody can afford it. It's not going to work. The utility just kept,
you know, saying that. Then, until all this transition that occurred over the years,
to set up the framework for photovoltaics. It didn't really take off till 2012, when
suddenly there were like 45,000 solar residential permits.
So, coming from a solar developer, I see hydrogen at that same point as we were
with PV in 2006. Right now, there's a technology, and in working for the County
I can see where we have the chickens and the eggs. We have the source of fuel
and we have the vehicles to use it.
So that's very important in the DOE (Department of Education) grant. They want
somebody not only to take care of producing it, they want somebody to use it. So,
I've calculated it and know that we can transform 300 light-duty vehicles, 55
busses, and 35 semitrucks, and we can use the landfill gas to run it. So, we have
the chicken and the egg.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you.
MR. SAITO: So that you know, PV was in the same position that hydrogen is in
now. But, I see it as a long-term future, the actual resolution to energy versus
batteries are temporary.
MS. KAGIWADA: One more follow-up question. On an earlier slide, there was
something about how much water it takes to produce. And going forward, do we
see that as a potential concern on this island.
MR. SAITO: Water is always a concern, right. So, I was just talking to a solar
developer this morning, that if you have a solar field, there's technology that pulls
water from air. There's some that stand alone like a solar panel, but it produces
water. There're others that you can feed electricity in and produces more water
faster. There's a couple of companies that are actually in Hawaii actually
moving forward with that.
The other source is wastewater. Another source is sea water. Water doesn't have
to be potable. The air -to -water is. It's so clean that you can't drink it because it'll
deplete your body of minerals. You have to add minerals to this air -to -water
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product. So, to produce 1,000 kilograms (kg) a day, it would take 2,700 gallons
(gal) or so. So I round it up to 3,000 gal to produce 1,000 kg a day and
would provide 10,000 bus miles a day. Just far more than what we need.
So, that amount of air -to -water technology in the form of passive panels would
take up two acres of land. So, two acres of land could provide enough water to
drive my entire bus fleet all year long. But with our wastewater, we're getting 2.8
million gallons a day versus 3,000 gallons. 2.8 million gal a day from the Hilo
Wastewater Treatment plant that potentially could be used to create or produce
hydrogen. And that wastewater has a higher hydrogen content than potable water.
So, that would help, because right now, we send that to the ocean.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, last, just circling back to my first question, which is
right now, what are the obstacles or things that you're trying to overcome?
MR. SAITO: It's community tense of the word "hydrogen." Not thinking that
they're going to blow up, and understanding that the forms of energy we're
talking about doesn't—using them doesn't involve incineration. That if you
produce the methane, you purify it. Your byproduct is carbon dioxide that you
combine with the hydrogen to become airline fuel. So, you actually capture
carbon using the hydrogen to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
So, I've just said that and explained that to you, but that needs to be understood
by a lot farther population than this room, and we need to do education and
having the understanding within our community that we're not going to burn
something. We're not going to blow you up. Hydrogen moves 66 feet per second
vertically. So, it's very, very difficult to capture and contain. Once you release it
in the air, it has a higher flash point temperature than gasoline. Things like that,
those facts regarding hydrogen needs to be understood.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you, I yield.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you so much, Council Member Kagiwada. Council
Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you, Chair. And thank you, Member Kagiwada. Fabulous
questions, thank you. Here's my concern, I don't really want it to be a super ferry
or a rail project on Oahu. My biggest concern is, it's nice to have that kind of
money coming in from the Government and Department of Energy to help us
maybe set up a pilot project. But my concern is that's what it'll be and then
money will dry up and say, you're on your own. So, now did you accept it, or not
accept it? Do you really want to do this or not want to do it? I think the public
island -wide is going to have to really weigh in if they want to spend this kind of
money to stand up hydrogen.
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I went to Japan and got a tour of a hydrogen facility there, and what I realized is
that if Japan thought that hydrogen was really here to stay, they'd be pumping out
all these hydrogen vehicles, and they're not. You know, they're going with
Tesla's and batteries. You know, everybody's going with volts and all this kind
of stuff.
So, I see if we're going to take it on as a County, I think it's got to be really,
really small and maybe we do a few busses and set up these stations, but we're
going to have to train our staff how to maintain hydrogen vehicles. We're going
to have to have these stations set up around the island, and maybe we don't want
to go all around the island. Maybe we should just do it in Hilo and use the
wastewater treatment there.
You know, but I'm really worried about taking on something really, really big
that the Federal Government will just kind of back off, and then, boom, we've got
a super ferry situation or we've got a rail situation where we have to raise taxes or
whatever to support this hydrogen transportation system. So, I do have a lot of
concerns about it. I'd like to keep it really, really, really small. Let the
Department of Energy and the Federal Government, and the State Legislature who
wants to do renewable energy keep giving us the money at the County level, but
not have us and the taxpayers hereI'm really worried about that part of it.
So, I appreciate technology and innovation, and you know, we want to get off
fossil fuel. I think, you know, it's a good direction, but I really have some
concerns about us biting it off as a small community taking it on. So, thank you.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Anyone else? Council
Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Council Member Evans, I can really
appreciate those sentiments, but I'm of the exact opposite sort of mindset where
we need to embrace an island -nation mentality and think of our location in the
middle of the Pacific Ocean as a motivator to be innovative and energy secure and
sustainable. So, I appreciate, you know, the presentation by Mr. Saito and our
R&D (Research and Development) Director here.
There is so much Federal money out there. I think all of us were getting that
message when we were in D.C. (Washington D.C.) last week, for the NACo
(National Association of Counties) Legislative Conference. And it's about
leveraging that money smartly and making those investments in the critical
infrastructure now, so that we don't have to be asking our residents to pony up for
this sort of infrastructure to sustain it for the long term.
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Chair, if you could give me a little bit of latitude, and you know, feel free to cut
me off at any time if you think I'm venturing into territory that's beyond the
scope of this presentation, but I'll make a connection here. In the presentation,
Mr. Saito had talked about potentially using our wastewater treatment facility to
be generating hydrogen. So, I'm just curious, maybe Director Adams, you can
speak to this.
My understanding is that all of the counties through the Department of
Transportation has a contract with Sustainability Energy Partners for
transportation purposes. So, I'm just curious if in the planning and design for
updates to our Hilo Wastewater Treatment facility, if there was any consideration
given to including in that scope of work creating hydrogen to suffice
transportation needs for our County, especially if we're moving into the hydrogen
direction?
(Note: At this time, Research and Development Director Douglass Adams
came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. ADAMS: Right. Thank you very much, Council Member. The answer is
that there were discussions about that. We did need to make sure that we
maintained connection with the electrification of transportation aspect of the
master agreement. And there was disagreement about whether or not using the
Wastewater Treatment facility and the wastewater opportunities for methane,
which then could be transitioned into hydrogen would actually suffice for that
purpose.
So, in the process of looking at those questions, the initial stage of the work on the
Wastewater Treatment plant that I believe DEM (Department of Environmental
Management) has going on doesn't include that, but we continue to have those
conversations with the leadership, and looking at expanding the scope from just
the electrification of transportation to more of an infrastructure capability. So
that, in fact, we don't then—we're not stuck just for transportation as the main
purpose, but the ability to then to move forward with an infrastructure RFP
(Request for Proposal) that would then allow us to go with the public-private
partnerships to support the ability to use not just the wastewater. But Riley has
some other connections that are part of that facility near that facility that would
also engage us with the potential to engage both the methane to hydrogen piece
for our busses, as well as some other ways of using even biologics for either
composting or hydrogen development.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Director, for that clarification. I don't want to
go any further. I know it goes beyond the scope of the presentation, but just
wanted to get that detail, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked
about the scope of the contract is just related to just electrification. So, going
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beyond that might be more than we can handle at this point, but you folks are
exploring it. Thank you.
Mr. Saito, can you talk a little bit more about the PGV (Puna Geothermal
Venture) element in your presentation? That happens to be in my district, so I
want to be able to communicate clearly to my constituents about how any
partnership between the County and PGV could be impacting the community.
MR. SAITO: It's not necessarily the existing facility, because ideally, if we're
looking at geothermal—well, let me say this about geothermal. Okay, so the
center of the earth is hot. The crust is where we live. If anywhere on earth you
move toward the center, anywhere on earth, right here, if I went down
25,000 feet, it would be very hot. Okay, so geothermal does not need to exist in
Lava Zone 1.
There's an exploratory well that was done at P6hakuloa Training that went
downso, that's about 6,000 -foot elevation. So, the water lens would be about
600 -feet down. They got to about 4,000 feet down and the water turned hot. So,
this is above the water lens, although they ran out of funding and couldn't actually
do more exploration. But they did get a little further down to like about 6,000 feet
and the water cooled off. But that in-between pocket—so there are pockets within
the substructure of this island that has heat that would be capable of geothermal.
So it may or may not be in your district, but the advantages of geothermal is that
it's a closed-loop system.
When they say injection, they're not like injecting into earth. It is injecting into a
pipe. The heat and energy comes out in a pipe. It goes through a secondary
cooling in a closed-loop pipe with the pentane. Then that cooled brine, because
now the heat has been removed, it goes back down into the injection well to get
warmed by the earth and up in production. So, there's no emissions, it's just a
heat transfer of closed systems. So, there's no explosion, there's no fracking.
Fracking, you actually explode the earth, and in order to release the gas—none of
that is going on.
So, it's a clean firm source of energy in a closed loop. So, with that energy
generation being firm, you can actually have steady electricity not tied to the grid
at all. It's just producing hydrogen all day long. And then once you get into
hydrogen you can diversify where you consume it and how you consume it.
Whether it's an airline field, vehicle fields, stored energy for emergency centers,
backup for hospital energy. You know, it's in a bottled glass that has unlimited
shelf life that can be transferred anywhere in the world. So, you know, going
back to geothermal, we would not necessarily have one with the existing plan,
although that could happen. But it wouldn't be necessarily grid -tied in its use of
energy production.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I just wanted some clarification, because you
specifically named PGV, and so just wanted to understand if there were any
conversations or agreements being negotiated, just so that we can be sure that the
residents that live near Puna Geothermal and are in District 4 are fully aware of
the dialogue between PGV and the County.
MR. SAITO: They have enough processes involved with the repowering contract
they have now, so that would certainly complicate things, so we're not under
discussion or moving toward any type of agreement at this point.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you for sharing that for the record. Again,
appreciate the presentation and you taking the time to further explore energy
potential options for our island. Thank you, Chair, I yield.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Anyone else?
Yes.
MS. GALIMBA: Thanks for the very interesting presentation. I guess I was
wanting to ask about—didn't we just get some money for the busses, and those
are going to be hydrogen, correct?
MR. SAITO: Correct.
MS. GALIMBA: Okay and it seems, from what reading I've done, that that's
almost like the ideal use of hydrogen technology is for that busses and trucks.
MR. SAITO: Well, the heavier vehicles are more hydrogen fuel -cell technology.
The heavier vehicles with the longer miles required that is where it's a sweet spot
for hydrogen to be the energy source. The shorter routes with lighter vehicles is
where battery is the sweet spot. The only thing with battery is that true end of life
20 years from now of the battery, what happens to the battery? That is still up in
the air yet. Versus the fuel cells, you can actually take them apart, renovate them
and reuse them.
MS. GALIMBA: So, the fuel cells are less difficult to sort of recycle?
MR. SAITO: End of life, right.
MS. GALIMBA: Yeah, end of life part of it.
MR. SAITO: It's like you renovate them and they're new.
MS. GALIMBA: Right, right, which is important. I guess my question right now
would be—and this is not to denigrate the hydrogen project at all. I was just
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wondering what the sort of cost per mile is at this point in time versus, I guess,
diesel gas.
MR. SAITO: So, this is what turned me on to hydrogen, because I started four
years ago worrying about electricity like everybody else. I was at a DOE
presentation at Natural Energy Laboratory of Hawaii Authority and they said, if
you can produce hydrogen with electricity at the cost of 10 cents kilowatt (kWh)
hour, you are at par with fossil fuel. So 10 cents kWh, our residential bills right
now are 47-48 cents kWh. So, really if you're buying it off the grid, it doesn't
make sense to produce hydrogen.
But as a solar developer, before starting with the County, I worked on a
presentation for a solar farm and battery for 8 cents was the PPA (Power
Purchase Agreement) price. So, what's funny is the solar company engineer and
design technical modeling person who was sitting next to me at that presentation.
And I said, if we can get it off grid—if we take away the grid, we don't have to go
to high voltage, we just keep the energy on the plot that we have the solar farm,
you think we can get to 4 or 5 cents? He goes, "oh yah, definitely 4 cents, maybe
lower."
So then, in my head, I was like, why are we messing around with this? Let's go
make hydrogen. Because if 10 cents is the tipping point and we're coming down,
you know, to 4 cents, it's economic stability for 25 years. There's no imports,
there's no external forces to put us at risk for a Ukraine -Russia situation. Using
our sunlight and using our wind, we can get to that 4 cents and really provide a
vibrant future. So, that's what started the hydrogen journey four years ago. It
was because of exactly what you asked. What is the tipping point?
MS. GALIMBA: Interesting. And I guess another question around the economic
side, what was the cost of the plant in? And I know it's just a small beginning
run but, just to give an idea of what that investment was.
MR. SAITO: It was really expensive, because it was actually the first time—it
was being designed and built for the first time. So, HNEI (Hawai`i Natural
Energy Institute), the Research and Development arm of the University of
Hawaii utilized the grants from Department of Energy from the State of Hawaii
from there's another grant form. And they started this build out in 2010-2011, I
think. There was some grant from the HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes) 196-10.
So it's taken that long because it was cutting edge, and it was a lot of education
with permitting because you don't want any sparks coming out of the production
facility. What if you do get a spark? What do you do? There's first responder
training. They're actually going through how much grounding you need in order
to prevent a spark. So, there's this huge slab under there that is full of rewire for
grounding, and the barbwire fence around it, every single pole has grounding on
there. So, I think it's like about $5 million.
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That's for 64 kg (kilograms) a day. But we've done several presentations with
the Fire Departments, so they're informed on what and how the systems work.
Where the emergency shutoff valves are. So, there's a lot of learning and
education that occurred in that facility. So, it is high-priced, but it's also the
lessons learned to design the engineering, the specifications, the metals used, the
pipes used, the wiring used can all be reused in moving forward with future
proj ects.
MS. GALIMBA: Interesting. Thank you very much. I guess one more question.
I guess, so the plant in Lancaster, there's a hydrogen; like a commercial scale
hydrogen facility already existing in Lancaster, is that right?
MR. SAITO: It's actually in Namie.
MS. GALIMBA: Oh, Namie. I know they're working on one in Lancaster, right?
MR. SAITO: Yes. They are working on one in Lancaster so that they can charge
their battery -electric busses with green energy.
MS. GALIMBA: Okay. And so, I mean, compared to our plant here, how big is
the one that exists in Namie?
MR. SAITO: Oh, it's about 15 times larger.
MS. GALIMBA: Okay, so like 1,000 kg per say, okay.
MR. SAITO: Yeah, it's about 1,000 kg.
MS. GALIMBA: Thanks.
MR. SAITO: And that's with PV and without a battery, and that was government
funded.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you. Okay, go ahead.
MS. GALIMBA: Do you know approximately how much that one costs in
Namie?
MR. SAITO: You know, in our bus ride to the geothermal plant last week, I
asked them that. And it was interesting because then this whole discussion in
Japanese occurred with pages flipping and all. They came back to me, it's $10 a
kg. And a kg is equivalent to a gallon of gas, but it contains 2.8 times more
energy. So, you take the $10 divided by 2.8 to take it to a fossil fuel equivalent
and the plant operations and maintenance. If they had to deliver it on a
commercial basis, they would sell it at $10 a kg.
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The U.S. DOE (United States Department of Energy) hydrogen shot goal is to
have the cost of hydrogen down to $1 a kg by the year 2030. That's kind of what
they're using for all this funding. So, if you get to $1 a kg, then you're way ahead
of fossil fuel. If you do it with a renewable source with energy molecules from
this island, that savings is stabilized and constant.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Galimba. Is that it, from my
colleagues right now? Awesome.
Well, thank you Heather. We hope you feel better, but thank you for requesting
this communication from Mr. Saito. Wow, it's always so interesting to hear you
speak, and so uplifting.
MR. SAITO: Also, hydrogen is light, it should be uplifting.
CHR. VILLEGAS: It's light. Lift us up with this. The depth and breadth of your
knowledge, your experience, your connections and relationships, not only here in
the County, but in the State and even globally with what's being done, I am really
hopeful and in full support of all the efforts that you're making to take us to that
next dimension and to allow for the Big Island to be that model for the world at
large. Because if we can create energy from what we already have on the island
with no necessary imports, and the output is clean renewable energy, you know,
we're on our way to solving a lot of the issues that we're facing. So, thank you
for your diligence and persistence and tenacity in continuing to forge ahead and
teach us and everyone else what's possible and how it can be made possible. So,
we'll continue to look forward to more reports from you, and it's kind of perfect
that our next topic will be kind of in alignment with this and in alignment with
some of the questions from Council Member Kierkiewicz, as far as how it relates
to managing our waste and our wastewater. So, thank you for your time.
MR. SAITO: Thank you for the opportunity.
CHR. VILLEGAS: My pleasure. Alight. And with that, I'd like to take a vote
on closing file on Communication 93, all those in favor?
Vote on Comm. 93: The motion to close file on Comm. 93 was carried
(Filed): by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba
Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
and Chair Villegas — 7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and
Kimball — 2.
Excused: None.
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STATEMENTS
FROM THE
PUBLIC ON
COMM. 94:
February 21, 2023
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Clerk Henricks. Moving on to the next
communication.
The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
Statements from the Public.
MR. HENRICKS: Mr. Owens, would you like to come forward now to testify?
CHR. VILLEGAS: Oh, sorry. Thank you. Of course.
MR. HENRICKS: So, Mr. (Lance) Owens will be testifying on Comm. 94.
You'll have three minutes to provide your testimony and I'll start the timer when
you begin to speak.
MR. OWENS: Out of respect for the Council's time, it looks like a lot of the
things I wanted to talk about may be addressed in the presentation. May I defer to
the end? Is that possible?
MR. HENRICKS: Your choice, Chair.
CHR. VILLEGAS: I am sorry, the question is whether or not he can testify after
the presentation?
MR. HENRICKS: If that's okay with you. It's not a problem.
CHR. VILLEGAS: That's okay with me then.
MR. OWENS: Many things may be addressed in the presentation.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay, great, thank you, and thanks for asking for this
beforehand.
MR. OWENS: Thank you.
Comm. 94: REQUESTS A DISCUSSION WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT, CARI ISHIDA, PH.D., OF
CAROLLO ENGINEERS AND SINA PRUDER DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH, WASTEWATER BRANCH, REGARDING THE CESSPOOL
CONVERSION WORKING GROUP REPORT
From Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated January 19, 2023.
Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 94.
Seconded by Ms. Galimba.
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February 21, 2023
CHR. VILLEGAS: Yes, fantastic. We'll just give you a minute to setup, and I'm
going to go ahead and pass this off to Council Member Jennifer Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you very much, Chair. So, wonderful to have you
here. We've got today, to give us a presentation on the Cesspool Working Group,
we've got Director Ramzi Mansour and Dr. Cari Ishida, Ph.D. And I believe we
have Sina Pruder from the Health Department on Zoom? Oh great, thank you so
much. So, we've got three experts here to talk to us today. Very excited. I don't
know how you want to start this off, but I guess Director, why don't you get us
going.
(Note: At this time Director of Environmental Management
Ramzi Mansour provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members
of the Committee. For viewing of the presentation, see the DVD
copy of the proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or online at
http:Hhawaiicountygranicus.com. A hard copy of the presentation is
made a part of the record. See Comm. 94. 1.)
MR. MANSOUR: I just want to thank Dr. Ishida and Sina for taking the time to
present before you this very important topic that every county including the
University of Hawaii and our professional engineers here within the State were
able to put it together. You guys know where I stand when it comes to
wastewater, but definitely, we'll entertain any questions. Thank you so much.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you so much. Colleagues? Council Member Inaba.
MR. INABA: Yeah, I'd like to see if that member from the public would like to
give his testimony at this time before we begin our deliberation. Thank you.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you for the reminder.
MR. HENRICKS: You could. It probably would be better to do it after this is
done before adjournment, just to not set the precedence of taking public testimony
in the middle of an item. I think that would be best.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Gotcha. Thanks for your guidance on that.
MR. INABA: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Director Mansour, mahalo to both of you
for the presentation today. Very comprehensive, and I know part of it calls for
that Comprehensive Wastewater Management Plan, something that's going
through the Legislature, something we've talked about. So Director Mansour, as
you know, what we heard today is one part of the big wastewaterI don't know
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February 21, 2023
what we even want to call it. But where do we see ourselves as it relates to the
integrated plan?
MR. MANSOUR: Definitely, that's a good question. As you've seen it from the
presentation, the Hawaii County has around close to 50,000 cesspools. We've
only got about 17 years left to meet the law, the deadline. That requires it to do
about 2,800 cesspool conversions a year. We haven't even started. I mean, we're
already behind the eight ball pretty much.
As far as our Wastewater Integrated Management Plan, I think I was before you
when I first got nominated. That was my first task—was to get funding to do that.
Wastewater Integrated Management Plan. Currently for the Puna district, the
whole area, we have a consultant who is working on the feasibility of a waste
treatment plan. And looking at the conversion as well. What we're going to do
with the cesspools. What's the best option. So, that's being worked on.
For the other side, for Puako and North Kohala area, including Waikoloa, we also
have the same consultant putting a masterplan together to figure out how we're
going to serve that area.
The Hilo Waste Treatment Plant currently, Carollo Engineering has also been
retained to be the engineer from last year. With their help we were able to put the
design construction plan out on the street. As you all know, the project Phase 1 is
being bid out as we speak. So, we were able to complete it within less than one
year. And that's a $100 million project for Phase 1.
So, Phase 2, we're working on it. Our intent is to have it out on the street by
June 2024. In addition to that, we're looking at getting the fact plan, which is the
facility planning for Hilo. To look at the parameter at the service area within that
Hilo facility, to be able to capture all the customers within that facility. We have
to connect to be able to be sustainable financially and environmentally.
So, that plan also, we are in the process going through the selection process to get
a consultant to do it or doing it through a supplement in the current agreement to
look at the feasibility of taking the cesspools within the Hilo service area and
trying to convert them into either sewer collection by extending the sewer line and
looking at the feasibility of the payout. If we can financially put the infrastructure
in and get a pay on return for 20 years, that's good for the County.
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February 21, 2023
As you've seen from the presentation, individual cost literally costs you more
than the monthly service. Here in the County we charge $46 a month. We are the
lowest -charged County in the whole State when it comes to sewer service.
MR. INABA: Okay, Director. So, I think we all know, or we've heard this
before, but I'm hearing piecemealed out plans. So, the question, I think, the bill
that's going through the Legislature is that masterplan. But we keep hearing
piecemeal. So, I know everything is going to be billions of dollars. We all know
that, but we're not seeing it all come together where there's some kind of
cohesive plan for the County, and I feel like we're banging our heads here
because we don't have that comprehensive plans. So, when do you intend to, or
are we working towards combining that, because we have consultants here,
consultants there working on individual regional plans. But we've heard that
before. So, where are we at getting it together?
MR. MANSOUR: Okay, Council Member Inaba, I haven't finished. Now, the
idea of doing these small plans is to create the big one. The reason we're doing
small plans is because we had a grant. Council Member Kierkiewicz, we worked
with her on the EDA (United States Economic Development Administration)
grant for $1.8 million. So the funding was a major factor of why we're doing it
the way we're doing it, because it's just the funding. The County cannot afford
that much money all at once. So, each district or each area was granted a certain
amount of money. That's why we're utilizing that money to do it in pieces.
Eventually, once all these pieces are put together, we can hire a consultant to
bring them together to make them one major integrated plan out of that.
MR. INABA: And was that June 2024, you said, or what is June 2024?
MR. MANSOUR: In 2024 is the Hilo Phase 2, we'll go out to construction. Our
intent is once we finish these mini masterplans, one consultant will grab them all
and create one Integrated Waste Management Plan for the whole County.
MR. INABA: So, with the regional plans, wait, I don't want us to get lost,
because I just need clear answers. With the regional plans, which regional plan is
last in progress—where we're going to get it completed last, because that's when
we're going to know? At that time, we can start putting them all together.
MR. MANSOUR: Once we secure the funding, the budget is coming before you
in May, and you have the authority to budget for that. Last year I came before
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February 21, 2023
you, and it's all about budgeting. And you guys allocate the money for such a
study. So, we'll come to you. The budget is coming to you in May. With the
power in your hand, if you want to budget for it, we'll start the selection process
for consultants.
But, there's multiple masterplans that are taking action now because of the grant
funding, because the County did not fund these areas. So funding, as you know,
it's been a challenge since day one. Allocate $5 million and we'll start it
tomorrow. Simple as that.
MR. INABA: Which regional plan is kind of on the backburner or last in terms of
being completed, or hasn't been started yet? I think that's what none of us really
have a clear idea of. So, of course, I think we'd want to see these regional plans
completed and can figure out what funding we can afford based on, you know,
our fund balance and direction from Finance.
But, I don't think any of us clearly understand where we are in terms of these
regional plans. Is the Hilo Regional Plan almost complete, and then we haven't
started anything for the Kona side or Puako yet, or like are we 80 percent done
with all of these regional plans?
MR. MANSOUR: Well, let me reinstate it again, the whole area in the Puna
district. The consultant, as I mentioned earlier, is already working on that
masterplan.
MR. INABA: Okay, so when will that plan be done?
MANSOUR: That I think we have a deadline on spending that grant money, I
think by the end of this year. I'm not sure the actual date of completion. The
Puako area is going to be done, I think by 2025, if I remember right. But I could
get you the dates, but all of these are being in harbor. Everything is being worked
on, as we speak, for these two sites that are fully funded by different money than
the County funds.
We are trying to solicit, like I mentioned earlier, to do the fac (facility) plan for
Hilo. That has not started because we're working on the design construction of
the actual facility. So, that eventually is going to take place; probably we're
going to secure a consultant or do a supplement within the next month. But it has
not started.
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February 21, 2023
Kealakehe area is in the same predicament. We got a proposal for almost $3.5
million just to do the Kealakehe fac plan and to look at the conversion and what
have you. And that may come before you in May if you want to move forward
with it and allocate the funding? We're talking about just Kealakehe, $3.5 million
County funds.
MR. INABA: Is that a conversation plan?
MR. MANSOUR: That's the regional plan for Kealakehe.
MR. INABA: Alright. So, no start there, no start in Hilo. Puako, end of 2025;
Pahoa, Puna, end of the year. Is that all regions? How many regional plans do we
have?
MR. MANSOUR: I mean, Dr. Ishida could explain the priority, but it's all tied to
funding. I just want to make it clear, anything we do is subject to allocating the
funds, so we can be able to secure a consultant to do the work.
(Note: At this time Carollo Engineers Technical Advisor Cari Ishida,
Ph.D. came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. ISIHDA: I just pulled back up the prioritization for Hawaii County. This is
the new prioritization that Sina had gone through. Priority 1 is, you know, West
of Waimea around the Kona area. Priority 2 is around the Hilo area, and then the
rest are Priority 3. So, if these new bills go through with, you know, changing the
deadlines. Priority 1 is 2030; Priority 2 is 2035, and Priority 3 is 2050. So, I
understand the urgency, certainly. There's a little bit more time for the Priority 3
areas. The urgency is really around Priority 1, which is West of Waimea, Kona
area; and then Priority 2, Hilo area.
MR. INABA: As we're talking about these priority areas, though, this was as it
relates to cesspool conversions specifically, not towards our County Regional
Plans, right?
MS. ISHIDA: So, I'll say the linkage between the cesspool conversions, and you
know, the regional plans around the plants. It's all tied because you have to look
at the plants together. You have to see what you can connect from a sewer
capacity perspective. You have to see what the plant can take from a treatment
capacity perspective as well. So, that's why you kind of look at it all together.
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February 21, 2023
MR. INABA: It totally makes sense. So, Director, how many regional plans total
are we going to have. I know it all depends on funding. But what is going to
bring us to the point where we can mesh them together into a masterplan, how
many?
MR. MANSOUR: We have seven waste treatment plants within the County. So,
you're looking at seven regional or fac plans for each facility. So, we're only
going to start Hilo and Kealakehe probably if the funding is available. Hilo, I
think we have the funding because we were able to get the general obligation
bond because we're doing Phase 1 and Phase 2. Puna district and Pahoa already
got the funding through the grant so that's being worked on, as I mentioned
earlier. So, you have to technically study each facility and the surrounding area.
So, we are behind.
MR. INABA: I know that. I still only know—is Pahoa and Puna two different
systems or is that one system, one region?
MR. MANSOUR: It's two separate funding, but we're doing it under the same
consultant to doing the whole area.
MR. INABA: Okay, so that's one of four I've heard so far. What are the other
three? Pahoa, Puna, Puako, Hilo, Kealakehe?
MR. MANSOUR: You have Papa`ikou, Kalaima`ano Treatment Plants.
MR. INABA: Kalaima`ano here, or Kula`imanu?
MR. MANSOUR: Kalaima`ano
MR. INABA: And what's the last one?
MR. MANSOUR: Honoka`a Waste Treatment Plant.
MR. INABA: Honoka`a. So, for those last three; where are we, unfunded, not
started?
MR. MANSOUR: We haven't even got a consultant to give us a proposal on it.
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MR. INABA: Okay, and I'm going to yield at this time. Thank you, Chair. This
is the most information, I think, I've gotten on the integrated plan thus far, which
I think, you know, we are going to have to figure out how to help the department.
Thank you, Director.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Inaba. I'm not sure who was
first, Council Member Lee Loy or Council Member Evans. You guys have major
sewer issues in your districts. Council Member Evans, go ahead.
MS. EVANS: Okay. I have several questions. So, I'll ask one and then pass it
over and maybe come back. So, recently in Puak6, there was a conversation
about a sewage treatment plant versus individual wastewater systems. One of the
comments, and that's my question; kind of a follow-up to our Member Inaba's
questioning. You mentioned that to actually cite a treatment plant, and go
through the Environmental Assessment and that whole process would take years.
We don't have years if they're doing 2030 as the goal.
So, my question would be to Sina as well as you is with modern technology
would it not be more to get there faster to give a little bit of money to the
University of Hawaii and Sina and really step up our game on individual
wastewater treatment plants, and also, these small little cluster plants instead of
just going with these putting all our money and eggs in the basket of these
regional plants isn't going to get us there by 2030. So, why can't we put money
towards individual wastewater treatment plants or these cluster plants?
MR. MANSOUR: Sina, you want to take this one, and then I can reply after?
(Note: At this time State Department of Health, Wastewater Branch
Sina Pruder came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. PRUDER: I mean, you can look at clustered systems. But like for Puak6,
you know, that's actually like one of the challenging areas, you know, that I know
of, because of the close proximity. You know, because it's just lava rock, and I
know cesspools and maybe even like septic systems, effluent, it just gets you
know, once it gets discharged into their leach field or even to their cesspool, it just
leaches to the ocean.
MS. EVANS: I just have to interrupt you for one second, though, because there
are systems that don't put it down back in the ground. I mean, I know that people
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don't like septic systems because they're effluent, but there's stuff that is way
beyond that, that is lost.
MS. PRUDER: Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, it was just like last
week, I actually—so like in Australia, they actually have all types of systems that
are available based on like the site specifics. So, I actually asked this one, you
know, because he's a consultant from Australia, and I just asked him, well, what
do you guys do for systems that are kind of like close to the ocean, you know, that
you want a zero -discharge system. So, you know, he said that you know, in
Australia, they do actually have zero -discharge, evapotranspiration systems, and
these are systems that are actually located near the Great Barrier Reef. Yeah, so
they actually have systems like that that, you know, is kind of zero discharge,
which would probably eliminate or minimize any kind of discharge to the ocean.
So, you know, one of the things is that I think it is that, well you know, and I'll
probably work with U.H. (University of Hawaii) too, is you know, we really got
to like tap in to like the knowledge and experience of other places like Australia.
I've heard that there's like even in the other states. But I particularly like
Australia only because they are like an island, you know, they have similar they
have like similar topography, you know, similar to ours where your discharge will
go to the ocean.
So, I am actually going to be working with them to see like are their other
solutions, especially for Puako, because Puako is a real challenge, you know, for
alternatives, for wastewater systems over there. I know for Puako, you know,
they've spent the last five years because originally, they wanted to go with a R1
reuse facility which is going to cost them $15 million. And you know, they had a
hard time even finding funds to do that.
Or even getting buy -in by all of the homeowners there. So that's another thing
too, is that, you know, whatever solution you recommend, and again, that's when
the outreach comes in. There has to be buy -in by the community. You know,
they're willing to like put in that system or systems. So, that they can like protect
their ocean over there.
MS. EVANS: You know, what you just told us is well said. Yes, if we do these
regional plans, it tells us maybe how big the sewage treatment plant would be, but
by the time you pass some improvement district, because you're going to have to
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charge everybody to build this thing that's going to cost a fortune. I mean this
takes years in process.
So, my big concern is how do I get people off cesspools today, but not get them
fluent in the ground? And I know I offered to use my contingency relief fund to
actually fund the research to do this. But you know, I'm really anxious when we
do the just my take away to this is, I'm anxious when we do our budget process
and talk about $5 million. $5 million might get over a thousand people off of
cesspools right now, today, this year. So, I'm really anxious to see some
conversions going on then. Thank you, I yield.
MR. MANSOUR: In addition to that, I think, just Priority No. 1, we're looking at
$5,119. If the law goes through implementation by 2030, you're looking at 713
conversions every year that we have to do. We have to start tomorrow. So, the
idea, yes, the laws are implemented, but contradicting each other.
But, what Council Member Inaba was referring to is the integrated waste
management plan also is going to be the law with the deadline we have to meet.
But, yeah, you have to do the plan, that you also have to do the conversion, and
you may not have enough time to plan it, because now you have to start
converting. Thank you.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Evans and Director. Council
Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks Chair. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I think along
similar lines, like Mr. Inaba and then Ms. Evans, I think we're waiting for the big
plan, right, that's going to cost us $100 billion? Then, what we can do in the
meantime to encourage cesspool owners to convert.
So, I just wanted to clarify some of the data. Doctor, on one slide, you gave an
average household income of somewhere, I think it was a $124,000 annually. The
affordability measures, that particular slide, and I'm a little concerned on
something you stated, which is these are 2020 numbers. And don't have to
explain now, but maybe if we could get this slide updated, I think the math will
dramatically change. Because we had a presentation earlier today about what the
median household income is for Hawaii County, and we're still $20,000 less than
the State.
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So, when we talk about affordability and grant incentives, if $10,000 is the
average for the State, individuals here in Hawaii County are going to need 30
($30,000) just to make it penciled out based on their income. So, if you wouldn't
mind, just scratching some back of the envelope information using what we used
with our ALICE (Asset Limited, Income Constrained, Employed) income, which
a median household income of $57,000 here in Hawaii County compared to the
State average of 80 ($80,000), and you had numbers at a 124 ($124,000). So, the
numbers are just going to climb.
The other one, too, was you know, I'm going to trust all these plans are going to
come together; we're going to have a big integrated wastewater system master
plan. I don't think we'll get to it till 2030, but at some point, we're going to have
to. If not, we're going to get fined.
What I'd like to understand a little better, was the resources needed towards
creating that workforce. So, on Factors that Affect Cesspool Conversion
Programs, one area that you highlighted was available workforce and resources.
So, needing the professionals, right? So, we've got to train them up; we've got to
educate them; we've got to get engineers. We've got to. And if we're not
packing the pipe on the educational side or the incentive side to help these kids
get through school, we're not going to have the workforce to carry out this larger
master plan.
So, I was wondering if there was any analysis done around that professional
contractor's materials, because we're an island, and if we're going to be paving
roads that's going to take up concrete like crazy, but we've also got to get pipe,
right? So, I was just wondering if an analysis was done around that, and don't
have to answer today, but maybe just a quick follow-up, Ramzi or Doctor, please?
I think there's some things we can do right now and encourage right now from a
policy perspective, but I do want to be kind of comparing apples with apples, and
especially, amounts. Just say, yes, because I heard Sina say that she's almost
30 years into her job. So, we're going to need toI'm hoping she doesn't retire,
but we have to deal with the fact that even Sina's going to retire one day.
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MR. MANSOUR: Yes, definitely. It's, as you all know, it's been a challenge
securing an engineer. The good thing is, we're going to find out more once we
receive the bids on Hilo. We're going to find out the constructability market. I
mean, we estimated $104 million for Phase 1. That's the latest engineer's estimate
before we put it out on the street. Let's hope it comes below that. If it comes
higher, I'm going to come before you guys and say, we need more money. I
mean, the whole thing is unfortunate because in the market, everything's going up
in price. Inflation is 23 percent or so. I mean, we have to do what we have to do.
I mean, it's bad timing, unfortunately.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Director. I'm trying to create that forecast or that
projection, because I know my colleagues and I were up in D.C. pushing on a
lot of things, but we began to ring that bell on workforce and supply chain issues
from last year. And now with the infusion of the Biden infrastructure bill,
everybody's going to want to grab that money. So, all of those resources, I think
we'll get sucked up at the 48 states, and there won't be much left for us here. I
see Doctor wanting to share a little bit.
MS. ISHDA: I can add maybe some food for thought. You know, we did look at
other states and their conversion programs and what worked for them and what
didn't. I think a major difference between Hawaii as a state and these other
areas, you know, is our size, right? We're small, we're compact. But we have all
the same problems as these other states. California, Texas, Florida; but they have
the tax based to fund that, right? We're asking the same people to pay for all
these big problems.
So, I think any opportunity to look for multiple benefits with projects solving
multiple problems, that's really, you know, the way to go. Whether it's a
transportation project, or an infrastructure project, housing, right? So, all these
big problems, we need to look for opportunities to solve multiple problems with
single projects.
MS. LEE LOY: That multi -problem approach, absolutely. So, an update on the
workforce analysis can come later along with the average median income as it
relates to Hawaii County numbers, I think.
MS. ISHIDA: I can share a little on that, just because I'm involved with
professional organizations. This is an industry -wide problem, shortage of
engineers. The University of Hawaii is not graduating enough civil engineers to
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fulfill the needs of wastewater, water, rail, you know, roads. So, it's an industry-
wide problem. Some of these professionals organizations like American Council
of Engineering Companies are looking at trying to survey and identify needs and
gaps as a state.
MS. LEE LOY: Great. Thank you. I mean, there was a program back in the day
for attorneys to attend law school, and then they would come home and take on
jobs to pay back their student loans. Maybe there's a way that we can kind of
incentivize our kids to go seek out these very technical degrees, which we know
are very, very expensive; but come home and kind of give back in an effort to
offset their costs.
MR. MANSOUR: Yes, definitely. And I think you're bringing a good point, as
we need to start maybe getting involved in the high school level to start planting
the seed of interest in the engineering field. Unfortunately, I've seen it over the
last 20-30 years, it's changed.
When the Clean Water Act came about in the mid -70's, early -70's, everybody
went into Engineering, and they wanted to be Wastewater Engineers, because
there was a demand. There was not much supply, so they encouraged students to
start studying engineering and what have you. When the tech industry came,
no one wanted to be an engineer. Everybody wanted to follow the tech, because
dot-com is where the money is. Hopefully, now we can bring them back.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you for the information. I yield.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Alright. Thank you. Any other questions? Council Member
Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. No, I think Ramzi knows how I feel
about this particular topic, that we need to be acting with a bit more urgency. So,
I really do look forward to our budget discussions. I just feel like so much time is
being spent on crafting these grand plans, and really time is running out. And so,
Director, I don't think it's going to be super complicated, but maybe you could
just, because I'm still trying to wrap my head around what exactly the priority and
focus of your department is in tackling this issue.
So, perhaps a three-point plan around how we're going to be making connections
within the workforce. You know, Council Member Lee Loy did bring up a lot of
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great points around that. What sort of incentives and programs we are going to be
developing for communities, for homeowners. My understanding is that there is
some state money that is available to be implementing some kind of conversion
program. So curious to know where we are, with implementing that for our
County.
You know, there's so much money out there on the federal front in terms of
funding some innovative pilot projects. I mean, look at what Stuart Coleman is
doing with WAI (Wastewater Alternatives and Innovations). There are, I'm sure
others that are working in this space, and so, just trying to better understand how
DEM (Department of Environmental Management) is pulling all of these folks
together. Is there some kind of like taskforce or working group that's dedicated to
solving this issue for our County?
MR. MANSOUR: Yes and no. As far as priority, you all know what our
priorities in wastewater. We only can do so many projects within the time given,
right? So, Hilo is our Number One priority. You all know that. That's where our
force has been. There's only one engineer in my entire department. One
engineer. So, when it comes to priority, we've been very transparent with your
board. Hilo was Number One priority even though we are working on your
project for the masterplan for Puna. So, we are shuffling as many projects as we
can with the amount of staff that we have. It's unfortunate, but we're so limited.
I'll be more than happy to come before you and present what we have
accomplished from priority point of view, just within the last year; year -and -a -
half. I think you'll be surprised given the workforce that we have, and the amount
of projects that we put out.
I just mentioned Hilo, nobody in the whole State could put up a whole project, a
$100 million project in about less than a year. Nobody, with one staff member.
So, I think you all know the priority, but we take it more on. So, hopefully we get
more staffing, and we could do more. All we're going to do is just wish to get
more staffing, but with the one engineer I have in my department that does that
design, construction project, we've done a lot. I'll be more than happy to share
that priority list with you.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That'll be great. Thanks Director. And then, Managing
Director Lord is here. Possible for us to entertain the idea of some kind of
Federal Grants Coordinator?
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February 21, 2023
Many of my colleagues and I were in D.C. for the NACo (National Association of
Counties) conference, and there is so much money out there just waiting to be
secured. We need a vision, we need a strategy, we need a plan for our islands and
figuring out a way to braid all of those funding resources together is of the utmost
importance, because we're not going to see money like this ever again in our
lifetimes.
So, just curious, Managing Director, we see this wastewater issue. It's a billion -
dollar problem, if not more, $2 billion problem for our island. Federal money is
out there. I'm combing through resources now. I mean, what's the Admin's plan
to go after those Federal funds to help to solve some of the issues that we're
facing here?
(Note: At this time Managing Director Lee Lord came forward to address
the members of the Committee.)
MR. LORD: So, we have, since the Federal funds have been on the table with
everything that's been going on in the last six months. So, we have a Federal
Grant Committee that's been meeting regularly and talking about all the funds
coming through. I like the idea of having a committee because, as you're talking
about wastewater, there's different areas in the County that also need the funds.
So, we can't be tunnel vision and just, you know, have one person looking at what
we're doing.
So, it involves at the key there, Doug Adams from Research and Development,
and of course, Deanna Sako. We're looking at what funds we can go for. We
initially, I guess it's been more than six months, looked at do we want to hire a,
you know, grants coordinator, those types of things. At this point in time, we
came to the decision, no, we have the different departments that are doing their
grants themselves, and also, writing the RFP's (Request for Proposal) with all of
the details that you need for each of the RFP's when you're going for the money.
So, we've been addressing it that way. I feel that we're capturing it all, in that,
any emails that come in with information or all the looking that Research and
Development does, and the departments do, we're sharing the information with
each other. So, when there's funds that are available that are feasible for us to get
and the requirements can be met by the County, I feel that we're looking at all of
those and going for those at this point in time.
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But, we can also look at a grants coordinator. But it's tough when you have a
grants coordinator because they can't really write the grants. You know, the
expertise, for example, that Ramzi has is so specific that you've got to have
somebody at the table involved doing that. So, I really do feel we're getting the
job done of making sure we're capturing all of those grants that we could possibly
go for. I think that Doug Adams could probably speak to the question about what
grants, and you know, the feasibility of them. But possibly not. I think that we're
pretty versed in our team, looking at what we're going for. That's what we have
right now.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair, for the latitude. I'm going to ask
Managing Director one more question related to grants, if that's okay?
CHR. VILLEGAS: Yeah, go for it.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So, how many grants has this Administration written and
secured so far? Federal grants.
MR. LORD: I would have to go and look at the numbers. I don't have those with
me because there's many.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Director Mansour, how many grants has your
department written and secured to deal with the wastewater issue?
MR. MANSOUR: As the Managing Director stated, it's pretty much under R&D
(Research and Development), the grant writing. But we were able to get the
$49,000 grant funding within the solid waste. And I think Dr. Ishida can add to
that granting as well, because we're trying to do a pilot program as we speak, so
go ahead.
MS. ISHIDA: Yeah, thanks Ramzi. So, you know, the Managing Director
mentioned a committee. And I think that's a good idea. Some of these grant
opportunities are only available to nonprofits. I can share that we are part of a
nonprofit team that was awarded a third small $300,000 grant to look at
decentralized systems. Talk about killing two birds with one stone, that's another
reason I'm here to talk to Ramzi more about some potential areas to leverage that
grant here in Hawaii County. But it does take these partnerships, right? So these
nonprofits or, you know, private firms in the County to pursue some of these
grants.
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It does take a lot of time. You know, somebody's got to craft the grant. It takes
creativity, you know, looking at things like water, reuse, resilience. These are,
you know, different types of fundings that can be leveraged, and you can hide in
cesspool conversions under there. But there are these opportunities. You have to
be creative and look for them. It's a full-time job. It's probably more than one
person, even. There's a lot of, you know, cross -cutters and requirements that go
along with that; purchasing requirements. So, it's very complicated, not easy to
navigate, it does take time and effort.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Managing Director, I'm going to follow-up
with you. Hoping to talk you into at least entertaining a Federal Grants
Coordinator position. I know R&D is doing a lot, but it's just, it's evident, like
there's billions of dollars out there. And Director Ramzi Mansour just mentioned
the department getting $50,000. So, I don't want our County to be leaving money
on the table at this point, not when it has the power to bring about transformative
change. Thank you for being here. I appreciate the presentation and this wealth
of information. Chair, I yield.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. So, with that, I'll
go ahead and kind of wrap this day up with a big loud crap. It's not sexy, but it's
essential. These conversations and digging deep into the messes that we have
made on this Island, and in the State, and in the World by not, as responsibly as
perhaps we could have, managing our wastes. So, thank you for this really
informative deep dive with the pros and cons and some things being more obvious
and other things being a little more elusive and none of it having a magic fix.
I want to also congratulate you for putting forth that project to go out to bid in less
than one year, and with one engineer. I was sitting here thinking, wow, if fewer
young people were wanting to be social media influencers, and no one wanted to
be engineers perhaps we could turn the tide again to staffing jobs, careers, and
community service focus. You know very well my passion for getting the
southern portion of Alii Drive sewered asap (as soon as possible). Thank you for
your continued support in that and communication. I also just feel, you know,
obviously very passionate questions and frustrations from members of this
Council and my colleagues here. You know, our County is decades behind in
managing these issues and our infrastructure. It's been negligent and I don't think
intentionally or maliciously, but we are at this tipping point in so many ways. So,
thank you for enduring that urgency from us and that continual push, and
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hopefully that gets reflected in an understanding that we're here to support you to
get things done.
I also would thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz, for focusing on that need
for a Federal Grants Coordinator, having just come back from NACo and hearing
directly from our representatives at the Federal Government, that there is a lot of
money heading this way and it is focused on projects like this. Thank you,
Doctor, also for confirming and validating really how much it takes to write a
grant and with that comes relationship building, and the trust, and connectivity,
and collaboration with the organizations that have that funding. It's like
navigating a whole other field. So, I would like to see more exploration for that
within our Administration, and more staff for you guys and all of those things.
But, this is more than we've seen in the past, or I've seen in my years of service
sitting here. So, we are behind, but my hope is that we're farther along now than
we've ever been, and we're no longer turning a blind eye. We are no longer
putting this on to the next generation. We are and will take responsibility for the
crap we've created and the effects that it has on our ecosystems and our drinking
water and our future generations. So, I wish I had a magic wand. I'm sure you do
too. But, thank you for being here, and we'll continue to work through this
together and require thoseI mean, we've had many cases come before us in the
last couple of weeks on this exact issue. So, let's keep moving forward and let's
clean things up. And with that, yes thank you, Holeka, would you like to come?
Is this the appropriate time?
MR. HENRICKS: I would call the vote first and just close this out. So we're not
taking testimony while the Council is in the middle of an item.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Okay, great. All those in favor of closing file on
Communication 94, please say "aye."
Vote on Comm. 94: The motion to close file on Comm. 94 was
(Filed): carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba
Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
and Chair Villegas — 6.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Evans, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,
and Kimball — 3.
Excused: None.
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STATEMENTS
FROM THE
PUBLIC ON
(COMM. 94):
A T) TC)T TR N-
AHMI E
February 21, 2023
The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
Statements from the Public.
The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by
the Chair:
Lance Owens:
Jon Olsen:
Comment.
Comment.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Mr: Olsen, appreciate you coming back later
on in the day to join us. And with that, can I get a motion to adjourn?
There being no further business, at 5:13 p.m., Ms. Kagiwada moved to adjourn
the meeting. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba
Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy,
and Chair Villegas — 6.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Evans, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,
and Kimball — 3.
Excused: None.
CHR. VILLEGAS: And with that, today's meeting is adjourned.
Approved:
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair
Communications, Reports,
and Council Oversight Committee
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(Date)
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