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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN CRCOC 2023/03/07 (2022-2024)Committee on Communications, Reports, and Council Oversight 4th Session Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii March 7, 2023 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Communications, Reports, and ORDER: Council Oversight was called to order at 3:53 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Acting Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Vice Chair Ms. Cindy Evans, Member (came in later) Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair (via videoconference from Kona) STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 110: REQUESTS A DISCUSSION WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT REGARDING THE STATUS OF THE ZONING AND SUBDIVISION CODE UPDATES From Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, dated January 31, 2023. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to close file on Comm. 110. Seconded by Ms. Galimba. CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: So we have here with us Director Kern, do you want to start us off by telling us about this. (Note: At this time Planning Director Zendo Kern came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KERN: Sure, good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of the committee, Zendo Kern Planning Director. I know it's been a long day, so I will try to be as concise with this as possible. So the Planning Department has initiated a code update for both Chapter 23 and 25, subdivision and zoning code. We have contracted with REA and O'Ryan, their two firms that are jointly working together on this. We have since gone out for public input, there really is couple phases. First phase is really collecting the data, right. Going out to community, meeting with department, meeting with stakeholders gathering as much information as we can and putting that together. And then moving forward with how that would then affect and adjust the code. And then would be moving forward back out to community, back out the public for more feedback. So currently we're at the stage of gathering information, some of you have been there. We've had meetings on the east side, on the west side, Waimea as well as Ka`u. We also have an online form available to basically have an online open house and collect information and data as well. and comprehensive stake holder groups from professionals to folks' environmental cultural side of it, so really trying to cast as wide of a net as possible to get as much information as we can. So right now we're in the process of kind of evaluating that data. One of the themes that has come out has been the concept—we're still working on the General Plan update and there's a lot of sentiment that the General Plan really should lead this code. And so we're hearing that, and this has been in conversations prior, and I don't disagree with it. At the same time wanting to keep things moving forward. So what we're doing right now is we're looking at continuing to move forward with the General Plan, have that lead. Meanwhile we're working on the code on back side. You know, sifting through all the information that's collected, coming up with a framework, but what we're thinking of doing is really parsing it into two areas. One we have some low hanging fruit on some areas of the code that can really be adjusted now without having the General Plan set already. And then the other area, on the more comprehensive side of it, will come after the General Plan has been adopted. So that's what we're looking at right now. So some of the low hanging fruit might be, you know, minimum lot sizes ADUs (Accessory Dwelling Units), things of that nature, and then we'll move forward. Page 2 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 So we are challenged like most folks with limited staff, limited time, but we are making it conservative effort to do that. And trying to time it and pace it with the General Plan. So most of you know somewhat aggressive on wanting to get things done, based on the feedback. And the staffing that we have, I'm trying to have them work on that cadence, not to mention we have a myriad of other things that we're working on as well from legislation to processing permits. So my aggressive timeline I kind of having to get the public feedback hold back on that and still work and make sure that the GP (General Plan) is coming forward. The GP is coming along and we're going through departmental meetings right now with the various agencies, working with them and trying to make a very clear concise effective General Plan. I have come to the conclusion that complicated is easy, clear, and concise is hard. And so that's what we're working on, is drilling down and refining that as we move forward. And we're expecting to have that come out public, little bit later on in the year. As well as kind of again parsing the code into two areas, and then I'll be able to come back and give further feedback once we kind of disseminated that down further. And we're looking at structure as well, as again some of that lower hanging fruit. That's the general update, I could talk longer but I know it's been a long day. We got folks waiting. I'm really open to answering any questions. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you, Director. Let the record reflect that Council Member Evans has joined us. I'm sorry, I should have gone to you first, but Council Member Kierkiewicz, you put this forward, do you want to start us off with any discussion? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Sure. Thank you, Chair. Mahalo nui, Planning Director for being here. I thought it was important to start having this conversation, because folks were wondering well what is the status? We saw a number of budgetary items come before the Council, related to zoning and subdivision code update. We also know that there is work being done on the General Plan. And so I just wanted to use this opportunity to address any misinformation or confusion in community related to General Plan update, and update of these codes. The updates of these codes were driven by a resolution that this body adopted, Resolution 432-20. Pre-Covid. And so because of COVID and everything else our community has had to go through, there were a lot of fits and starts related to this process. And so we're finally in a position, when I say we the big county, to be taking a look at engaging community and making updates. I was inspired by a presentation by O`Ryan which is the consultant that is helping County of Hawaii, but also is helping the County of Maui. To do a very, very, thorough audit and assessment of its zoning Page 3 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 and subdivision codes and thought hey, this is something we should start taking a look at. It just so happens that we are in the process of updating our General Plan, and so to hear you say Director that the General Plan is leading I think it's going to make a lot of folks happy. But I also think it's also smart to be working on both of the updates, and parallel. There are a lot of nuances community strengths that we can take into consideration as we update zoning and subdivisions, so thanks for acknowledging that. There is this concern in community that folks on your team are being pulled from CDP Action Committees and being focused to work on code updates, general plan updates. Can you just let us know what the workflow looks like within your department. I know that you're working on so many different priorities. MR. KERN: Sure, yeah. Thank you for the question. I'll come back to that, part way through we were hearing some of that messaging. So we're trying actually to communicate with the code update, and bring the General Plan conversation in there. So it's very holistic in the communication, even though they're separate matters. So yeah, we're not pulling people off of the long-range plan, or CDP (Community Development Plan) AC (Action Committees) Committees to work on the code. The fact is that we're severely understaffed in the long-range division that working community planners. My community planning section will be down to zero in two weeks. So nothing to do with code, just purely, you know, people making changes adjustments. And so at times we have the department opine on the code, but we're not taking away anybody's responsibilities. We're making sure that our planners are taking care of their first responsibilities. Whether it's working with the action committees, whether it's processing permits, whether it's processing applications, doing street naming etcetera. That's the primary in any code work or having them review it would be secondary. So it's not happening, it's certainly a unique time and a unique circumstance how this has come together. And I can see how those optics would be, but that's not the case. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, for providing that clarification. So it seems you're at the point where with the consultants and members of your team, you are kind of dissecting public comment. MR. KERN: Correct. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And then from there, going to be going out for more public feedback. MR. KERN: We're going to, yeah, we're dissecting it, we're coming up with some themes. We're trying to then work on putting some structure together, and Page 4 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 again kind of refine down on those themes. And then come back out for feedback around those themes. Because there's a lot of information right now, and a lot of information basically is like, you know, you get the deer stuck in the headlights kind of situation. So we're trying to come back out in a clear and concise manner, so people can give us comments and give us feedback in a way that's actually going to be very effective and productive. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. And rather than doing something sweeping and comprehensive, I like the idea of prioritizing. MR. KERN: Yeah. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And this kind of goes counter to what I've said in the past, which was, you know, we're doing a lot of frankensteining of the Zoning Code by doing all these different amendments. But I think over time we've seen where strategic shifts can actually help to improve, you know, smart sustainable development on Hawaii Island, and so when you talk about things like the minimum lot sizes and ADUs, even parking requirements MR. KERN: Correct. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Increasing density where the infrastructure is, taking a look at mixed -used communities, I think those are things we can start taking a look at right now. I'm going to throw out a few themes. I'm just curious if this has come up in conversation by right zoning, skinny streets, next step density, out comes base vibrancy. Just wondering if these are things that also come up by community partners. MR. KERN: They have come up, absolutely. And what we're doing right now is we're strategizing on how that multiprong approach would be. Because I don't want to just kind of be throwing things out, I want to have a strategy and say here's kind of the low hanging fruit, things that can happen regardless of GP. Then here's this other side, smaller street size, different typology, I think that's something that's pretty straight forward. We see that consistently in 201H applications, PUD (Planned Unit Development) applications. By right zoning, we have talked about that, we get mixed feedback on that. And by right can be very good and very challenging. And one of the areas around by right, and for those don't understand what by right is, basically if you're in a certain area you get that zoning by right. So if you're in an urban core and you want to do multi -family, that zoning exists. And with the way that the code is right now and the way the community is that can have a lot of uncertainty. And creating more uncertainty in community and potentially even the perception of mistrust is not something that I think any of us want to engage in. Page 5 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 So one of the critical elements I believe with by right zoning, is bringing in the form -based code element. When you bring in form -based code that looks of how things actually look; what's the form, what's the distance off the street, does it look like a plantation area, does it meet downtown Hilo, does it meet more of a Ka`u look. And form based isn't abroad you do it across the island, you do it in each area specific for that. And I think if we have a greater conversation around form -based zoning, we could then further the conversation around by right. And this is just me talking, as based on the feedback that I'm getting and my understanding. We are hearing about it, and I like it, but I also have concerns. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Director. And the other things that I brought up, next step density, outcome based has that come up as well? MR. KERN: Yeah, we're hearing that. Exactly, performance base. And that's what we're trying to look at to is, you know, the karts and sticks within zoning. How do we get people to actually move, we want the movement. Because we obviously need the infrastructure, we need a certain amount of scale for that to happen. And we also need county involvement for some of that to happen. If you get a really large project, you get scale, but what we see is a lot of areas don't have that size and so how do we come together and work on that. So all of these are coming up in the conversation, and again we're more like in data collection mode and formatting. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Great, thank you. I really appreciate the update and the hard work. I think at the end of the day these particular code zoning and subdivision really do impact social economic health and wellbeing and the cultural vibrancy of our community. So, thanks to you and your team for all the work done today. And we look forward to the different strategies that you put forward for us to consider. MR. KERN: Thank you, very much. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I yield. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you, Council Member. Anybody else have comments or questions? Go ahead, Ms. Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz for advancing this communication. And Mr. Kern for being here. Yeah, really love to push in on form -based coding. I think there's some predictability around there and look forward to the feedback. What I wanted to do is kind of scale out and take more of a 30,000 -foot look because that's what the general plan does, and as you mentioned the General Plan leads. You know some of that—Also I'm going to go Page 6 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 down a rabbit hole and don't have to really answer, we can have an offline conversation about this. Is the General Plan kind of lives and breathes with us, but we also know that there's some state land use designation. But I was curious to know if the General Plan update will take a look at not only our State Land Use designations, but our legislative jurisdictional districts. And I ask this question because we recently went through a reapportionment, and so when we try and secure funding for these big things, right. The big wastewater treatment plants, and we want to secure funding it comes from the federal down, right. I know you understand this director, is there any feedback and or information that would be kind of generated through this community outreach where we could align a little bit better for funding opportunities? Because without resources and funding we're not going to be able to make any of the General Plan, our Community Development Plans. We're not going to be able to make anything actionable. MR. KERN: Thank you for the question. I would be able to touch on part of that for sure. So with the General Plan we obviously can't mandate other State Agencies to do things, but to get it in alignment with water land uses where infrastructure priorities are other departments linking up on that? Because it's not just a planning department document, This involves DEM, DWS, you know, those who are listening. Department of Environmental Management, Department of Water Supply, Department of Public Works, and others, is to really come together on how we, as a county, collaborate together so we are consistent. So when we go for the ask, yes, we're all in alignment on that. And coming to the state land use conversation, that's a big one. And I've talked with the State Land Use Commission, and they're not in the mindset to come in and make the changes for us. A lot of the islands State Land Use was really, it was done at a time where it was kind of like let's call of this AG (agriculture). But this is within our urban growth boundaries areas and it's no longer AG. And so an ideal world the State would come along and say, you know, it's been 30, 40, 50 years and things have changed, and we'll come in and adjust this for you. I'm not seeing that happening. So we're looking at part of the GP General Plan. And even before that, to try to be a little more proactive on that, to set the table, doesn't even change the zoning. As you know, it just sets the table on the State Land use, like this is where we want urban, this is an alignment, it's already urban, which allows the funding to come in a lot easier, right. Because you're trying to get say funding infrastructure in an area where it's still State Land Use ag, saying we're going to change it, it's going to have zoning well when? And we all know that takes time, so I think setting that is going to be really important. Page 7 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 And then general plan we talk about the policies, we talk about action steps to do that. And with that it's also not just the document that we're looking to point outward but also to point inward. A mutual accountability, a mutual responsibility for us as a department to work together. So for example when we're redoing a street, resurfacing a street we look at what's underneath that street. And we look at the silver lining to be replaced, the water needs to be replaced. It all comes together and work on that, which then should hopefully help the conversation with our State, with our Federal partners as well. Because if we're not in alignment, they're not going to want to make that investment. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Sorry just to interject, I just want to say that Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder joined us for the record. And go ahead. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Yes, absolutely. We want to be in alignment as best as we can. And what I'm also looking forward to and I'm hoping that the General Plan alludes to is some kind of crosswalk between the intentionality's of that alignment and policy shifts that need to happen. And just two more parts to this one related to State Land Use. You know, often times and we know this very well here is, here in Hawaii Island we have ag and urban. And I was just wondering if any thought was given to kind of grabbing some rural designations. Because I've experienced here on the Council that someone will come in for a change of zone, and they're just adjacent to State Land Use urban. And then right next door is ag, and it's just a huge leap. And I almost feel if we grabbed more rural designations from the State Land Use, we'd actually see less sprawl and this kind of smart growth pattern. MR. KERN: I agree. We are looking at the world designation for those that may, most people probably don't know this we're kind of a rural island, right? By nature, we're not a super urban island. Our rural zoning on this island equates to 807 acres in totality, 807 acres is not a lot of land area. And so yes, it's definitely land use that I don't believe it's being utilized, because it does allow for a little bit smaller lot size. But it also allows for the rural country lifestyle, where you can have, you know, your chickens, you can have your animals and what not. So yes, looking at its kind of is the buffer transition area between our urban core density, where we really want to drive that infrastructure get that live work play density. And then rural and then out to agriculture. So yes, it's something that we're certainly looking at. MS. LEE LOY: Perfect. And then my final question, because you touched upon it which is Department of Water Supply, and then the water availability. And if the general plan is looking at some of those kind of smart infrastructure placements because we do know the Department of Transportation and other bigger federal monies that offer this infrastructure development and incentives Page 8 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 that if it provides affordable housing or schools or real big community needs like health care centers or some of those things. Is the General Plan kind of looking at some of those, and I ask that now, but I would love to see it. I just know that some of that funding is going to get cut off, you know, in five or six years. So I just. MR. KERN: Correct. And that is definitely one of the themes is really trying to focus from transit to housing, to infrastructure to that mix use modern planning within our urban areas. But also being really, really focused in those areas. To say if we're going to go in there something needs to happen, we can't just go and say we'd like to get everybody in that area on board with it. But very much that is the focus. We're limited on how much we can spend. And so we need to be very strategic on where we spend it, and what the impact of that will have. And with as you say on the federal level this conversation is very top of mind across the nation right now. And so we are lining that up with modern planning, modern practices, transit really bringing all that together absolutely. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and I think that leads us into one more planning theme. Ms. Kierkiewicz touched upon it with form base coating, but middle mile housing. So we have the typical single family residential, and then we have the urban. But we don't have that kind of mix use in between, that actually captures the real working class, right? The nurses, the teachers, the fire fighters, right. Real condensed type of development, which walks me into the State Land Use was rural we could actually begin to develop more of that middle mile housing. And then we'd actually have these very circular communities, urban rural ag. MR. KERN: Yes, we are working on that, and I agree. MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Mr. Kern, for being here. I yield. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. And thank you for the great questions, Council Member Lee Loy. Thank you, Director, for being here. You may have talked to the same non-profit organization that I did, and I wasn't going to bring it up but since you were talking about it. The question I actually had less to do with the State Land Use boundaries, you alright? It came up with context of the sense estate, which I think you were talking about and the blocks that are created from that. And an example would be that the Hilo proper South Hilo and even bits of North Hilo are all one block that are called urban. Which means that the projects that are in North Hilo and bits of South Hilo, Hamakua Coast side are not considered rural in terms of federal funding. So I don't even know how those boundaries get Page 9 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 made. Like they're coming from that census blocks, but where and how are those? I only thought it might be tied to the General Plan, because the most recent time they were done was with the last General Plan. MR. KERN: That seems to be a little bit of a theme of a conversation this last week or two. We just got an email related to that conversation, and my understanding is that Beth at R&D has some experience in that. So April from my department is working with Beth right now to see what processes are in place, or how we would make those adjustments, so they are in alignment. I don't believe we need to wait for the General Plan to be done to get that done. I believe it can happen outside of that, and exclusive to that. And so I'm just getting my mind around that as well on how what the mechanism is to do that. MS. KIMBALL: Ok, great. Yeah, if you could kind of keep us in the loop, I mean it's tangential to today's conversation, but I thought that was what Council Member Lee Loy was talking about. Just want to voice support for expanding rural zoning would be appropriate. One to throw out the pilot project perform base code Honokaa, let's do it. You got from there that's very, you know, a character. I think I have to junk and pole with Council Member Kierkiewicz verses Pahoa, Honokaa being the best location. Just one final question, with your kind of re-strategizing with doing this general plan first and then having that feed in which makes a ton of sense. Can we anticipate any requirements for more funding, for your consultants on the project? MR. KERN: Right now, we're going through that conversation and working on that. I don't believe we're going to need any additional help during this budget cycle, and I think we should be able to keep it pretty much contain with the resources that we have. That's my goal. If we start adding on to scope then that might change, like if we bring in more form that may change. But right now I'm really trying to keep it within the resources I have. So in this budget cycle we're not going to be seeing any request in there, we'll see how it goes into the following one and my goal is not to. MS. KIMBALL: Okay, great, thank you. That's all, I yield Chair. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Alright, thank you Council Member. Anybody else, comments, questions? Council Member Evans. MS. EVANS: Thank you. Hi, good to see you. I was just kind of curious in this process when you're working with the consultants, is there a way to use this as a learning opportunity so that I know the frustration from the community is that Page 10 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 the General Plan is pretty old. You know, I think it's what's going on how many years? MR. KERN: The last plan was adopted in 2005. MS. EVANS: Two thousand and five, wow. I think at the time, weren't people saying that maybe they'll update it every 10 years. MR. KERN: Correct. That's the goal, is to update every 10 years. MS. EVANS: Okay. I feel the frustration of my community because you know when they talk about Community Development Plans or General Plans, they feel like it's out dated. And some of the things have been accomplished, some need to be accomplished, some need to be added and they're just kind of like how do we get into the que so that we can let people know what our priorities are. So I'm just wondering if your consultants and you during this process could maybe come up with a recommended process for the next time. So we have that learning curve so that maybe what we're really doing is updating every 15 years, but we start in year 10. And it will be done by 15, so we don't build these kinds of expectations. And the other thing is, the State Government and the Legislature keeps passing this Sustainability 2050. Cesspools, everybody get off cesspools by 2035. They want to move it from 2050 to 2035. So there tends to be these other overwriting things being done by the bigger policy makers, that really affects I would think our General Plans. So how do you build in the ability over a period of let's say 15 or 20 years, where you can actually go in and say in year five, we're going to do an amendment or year 10 we're going to do an amendment. And those amendments are just strictly based on the policy makers that are outside of ourselves, right? Wouldn't that be a benefit to possibly doing that. MR. KERN: Yeah. So we are looking at that, of how there's a General Plan, Community Development Plans, Functional Plans, Sewer Plan etcetera. And how those interact with each other, and also the cadence in which those need to be updated. The General Plan is supposed to be general enough and dynamic enough to be able to work with say policy makers or we're changing cesspool to 2050 to 2035. If the General Plan is so specific that we can't do that, I think there's a problem with that. So that's part of the goal is to make it concise but also dynamic. So for example covid happens, you know, the General Plan needs to be able to adapt to something like that, adapt to something like that. Now we as a team, have looked at the CDP's and functional plans. And we're actually putting together a chart on kind of what the cadence we believe that Page 11 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 would happen. So if the General Plan is done, we start on these next plans. And we're not just chasing the plans all around. How can we do like a comprehensive update to all the CDP's related to certain topics. These are just ideas that we're coming up with. So we are looking at that, we do realize that it's a concern. So we're not just chasing things around or the GP takes 30 years to get done. And try to actually embed that into the process that we're coming up with within the General Plan. So it is clear. Okay, here's the General Plan time frame, here's the CDP update time frame, here's the functional plans. How are those all working back, and then you come back to General Plan update afterwards. And then you get that cycle, and the cycle really does need to be a reboot. And so we're looking at that with the General Plan. MS. EVANS: I really appreciate that because I know that's what I hear is that frustration of how old it is. The other thing that I wanted just to say publicly is you know, the American Planning Association and the planners from the other islands, I know you get together but there are trends that come forth. So for example on our island the trend may be in the future park and ride. The other trend may be trails within subdivision, trails that are interconnected in the side of community. So these are like design features that kind of come our way that we learn from just doing, right. And learning from other communities as they grow. How would you see that incorporated? MR. KERN: We're actually having language in there talking about some of those elements. And so when we talk about like trail system and bringing trails into the urban area. How do we do that from a carrot and sticks approach, how do we do that as a positive to this? This is good for your project. And maybe if you do something like that, there's a little density bonus that comes along with this. You're like yes, I definitely want that. So this is part of the conversation that we're having, is how do we inner grade some of those themes in here. You know, the right landscaping, and the right places. Again I think trails and connectivity within the urban areas is very much on trend, and I think it's really big for us. Especially when we talk about carbon footprint and driving, and we're very much in the framework here of getting your car in drive. We should have the option, especially in our urban cores that we're building out, to get on your bike and ride or go for a walk or catch a ride share. That's definitely language that we have in there, and we're trying to again make it so it's clear, concise, and somebody actually wants to do it. MS. EVANS: Okay. Thank you, I yield. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Member Inaba. Page 12 CRCOC-4 Vote on Comm. 110 Filed March 7, 2023 MR. INABA: Thank you. I guess is there anything else you want to share related to specifically to the zoning and subdivision codes, because I think we've gotten off topic. Not your fault, but we've been asked questions about the General Plan. I would like to move on to other departments, out of respect for the Director as well. MR. KERN: Thank you for that. I think the theme is that we're really in the collection of the data. And I think coming up with this two -prong approach is going to be the key, in making sure that people are aware that we're not taking resources that we're really trying to cast a wide net. But happy to answer any other questions, and happy to come back at the appropriate time to give a further update. MR. INABA: So next outreach from consultants or the department to the public, or involvement with the public can be expected when? MR. KERN: We're working on that right now. I don't have the exact date, because we work with the consultant, we get feedback then we huddle up. Okay, how does that make sense, how does this work, we still have our normal duties, get back with the consultants. So right now we're really kind of in the strategy programing side of it, when we're going to come back out. So to be determined, and when it does, we're going to put it out there. Put it on the web, put it in the newspapers, let you folks know. We're trying to be very effective with our communication and get it out there. MR. INABA: Thank you, Director. Thank you, Chair. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Alright. Anybody else have specific questions or comments about the zoning or subdivision codes. Council Member Villegas do you have anything over there? MS. VILLEGAS: Not at this time, I'll let you know if that changes. Mahalo. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Alright, thank you. Anybody else here? Alright seeing no more lights. Thank you so much for being here. I don't want to get off again onto the General Plan, so we'll take it up with you. But you know my issue around Hilo not having a CDP Action Committee, so not really fitting in with a lot of the other districts on how that works. So I will take that up with you separately. But seeing no more lights, let's go ahead and have a vote. All those in favor of closing file on communication 110, please say aye. The motion to close file on Comm. 110 was carried by the following voice vote: Page 13 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, and Chair Villegas — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. MR. KERN: Thank you for the opportunity to share. You all have a great rest of your evening. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you, Director. Alright Clerk, do we have any testimony on Comm. 112. No. Clerk, could you please read in Communication 112. Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the following items were taken out of order. Comm. 112: AUDIT NO. 2023-01: OFFICE OF HOUSING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AFFORDABLE HOUSING CREDITS From County Auditor Tyler J. Benner, dated February 1, 2023, transmitting the above audit report pursuant to Hawaii County Charter Section 3-18(d)(2). Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 112. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: And we have Mr. Benner here with us. Do you want to start us off. information with us. And thank you so much for coming forth and sharing this (Note: At this time County Auditor Tyler Benner and Audit Analyst Maxinne Pacheco came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. BENNER: Thank you for inviting me here today. Good day Council, I'm going to be with you today. My name is Tyler Benner, I'm with the Office of the County Auditor. We're here today to debrief you on our port number 2023-01, Office of Housing and Community Development affordable housing credits. Published on February 1, 2023. This audit was conducted at the request of Council by resolution. I'm joined in chambers today by Maxine Pacheco, Jasmine Santos, and Mike Cordova. Maxine was the lead auditor, and author of this report. Jasmine did the majority of developer, and data compilation. And we asked Mike to provide independent oversight as a document reviewer. Page 14 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 (Note: At this time, Mr. Benner and Ms. Pacheco provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the presentation, see the DVD copy of the proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or online at http://hawaiicounty.granicus.com. A copy of the presentation is made part of the record, see Comm. 112.) MS. PACHECO: This concludes our presentation, and we are happy to answer any questions. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you, so much. Council Members, questions, or comments? Council Member Inaba. MR. INABA: Yeah, I think first and foremost, thank you to this team from the Auditors Office for putting together such a comprehensive report for us. And then to the Office of Housing staff for working with them to get us this information. To get us probably in the best place we might have ever been, in terms of knowing what is and what isn't. I think my question is, as we look towards improvements we can make, I go back to our accounting of credits. And now that we've received our first report as mandated by Bill 9 that passed, is there a way, and this might not be for you folks to answer this might be for Corporation Counsel actually. Is there a way to certify what is provided to us in those quarterly reports are real, and that in between those quarterly reports there is no discussion or question as to anything else that could exist; like this is our record and we won't be having the opportunity for any more potential abuse? Yeah, basically is there a way to certify that these reports are considered the true and only record? And if there is, you know, somebody who comes to make a claim, what would that look like. Thank you, Deputy. (Note: At this time Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. WAN: Deputy Corporation Counsel, Sylvia Wan. So I understand that the Office of the Auditor did a very extensive report, and dived extremely deep into many legal documents that are confusing even to the sharpest attorney. So I do think that the current report that's being presented to this body at this time, is the most complete picture that we have. But I hesitate to say that we might not discover something later. Just because of how old and complicated this credit system has been. Because as noted in the report there were credits issued prior to Chapter 11, which are loosely termed as bonus credits. And every now and then there's an issue with those things. So how do I say this, to the best of our Page 15 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 knowledge what is in the report is our best knowledge of the accounting of the excess credits at this time. MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. And if something comes up. MS. WAN: Then it would be noted in the next quarterly report, with an indication as to why this is here now verses before. MR. INABA: Alright. And then for Administrator Kunz, just looking I know you had a chance to respond to this audit. And your response is included in this report. But looking at these seven recommendations, what are you and your team prioritizing? You know, just to get our public feeling confident, that we're heading and doing something to adjust mishaps that might of happen before. (Note: At this time Housing Administrator Susan Kunz came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. KUNZ: I'm Susan Kunz, Housing Administrator for the Office of Housing. Thank you for that question. You know, there's so much work that has been done during the process of this audit with the County Auditor. And I really appreciate the work and collaboration. But I have to tell you as it's reported here, there's been a lot of progress and work that has already happened. So prioritizing, I mean they're all priorities, and a lot of work has already begun on a lot of these recommendations. So I think the policies and procedures are extremely important because it's an ongoing process that we are working with this community. And we're trying to push affordable housing, so a lot of these are going to continue to come down through the pipe. But if I'm kind of looking at the chain of events that will happen, continuing now to work with the consultant I think is critical. You know, the consultants work and the auditors work, I think needs to fuse and the information that we've gotten here. So we've reconvened with the consultant. I'm hoping that within the next couple of months, we get our report out. I would like to have some public meetings to share some of what consultant is recommending incorporating this work. I think once we have that it's coming back to the Council and working with the County Council. I think we're all anticipating changes to Chapter 11. Administrative Rules are not going to happen, until those changes happen. I don't think it's worthwhile for us to spend that kind of time. So, I think, work with the County Council to revise Chapter 11, and bring it up to speed to reflect all of this work. And then putting together and working with Corporation Counsel. So we've already had discussions about what our team is Page 16 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 going to look like working on these Administrative Rules once Chapter 11 has been revised. MR. INABA: Thank you. And then what technology is your office looking at using, to keep track of all of these credits moving forward. MS. KUNZ: There's actually several software that we're looking at. And I really apologize, I can't remember the names of them. But there are two. I do have in my budget for fiscal year 23, 24, funding for software. But to be really honest, I think it would be premature to do that until we know what Chapter 11 is going to look like. Because if for example, credits go away. That would be a significant piece of the software's work. So I think what we have to do is really look at what Chapter 11 is going to look like, and then determine what software we're going to be needing. But I do have it in my budget for fiscal year 23, 24, in case we're going to need it. MR. INABA: And I feel like I understand where you're coming from with that, but at the same time there's credits out there. And we need to have some type of system, to ensure that if we don't get rid of the credit. Even if we do get rid of credits in a year, we need to be able to track, are we going to be able to do that with whatever systems we've been using? And I feel like the answer to that is, up in the air. So I just want to point out, I'm happy that the money is in the budget. But doesn't matter if we get rid of the credits later. Credits exist right now, and they're a commodity and we can't let abuse happen with them anymore. So looking forward to working with your office on the Chapter 11 amendments. MS. KUNZ: I understand your point, so thank you. MR. INABA: And the policies. Are the Administrative Rules that your office will come up with afterwards. So thank you Administrator for being here, and again thank you to everybody from the Auditors Office for all of your hard work. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Benner, Ms. Kunz, for being here. I'm going to start with something that your audit touched upon but wasn't part of the scope of the resolutions, which was the Department of Hawaiian Homelands and those credits. Will there be a follow-up audit, or does this body need to advance another resolution around that? And I ask that because some of the language around those credits are also within Hawaii Revised Statutes (HRS). And so there's a piece of legislation currently in front of the Legislature, around possible language to help Hawaii or edit that HRS so that Hawaii County can capture those credits. So it's two parts. I don't know who should go first. Page 17 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 MR. BENNER: Well, I guess to discuss what kind of scope you'd envision, I think would maybe have an offline discussion on that and see what you're referring to. I mean I agree the department loses a measure of control because my understanding is that DHHL (Department of Hawaiian Home Lands) received a lot of recent funds, and they may be very active in their development. And there's nothing that compels them to give small blocks as these units are being developed to these guys, so that they're able to manage those as they're produced. So it could be that there's an influx of credits, that are all of a sudden introduced into the inventory total. Again, one thing that we had mentioned here in this debrief today, was that there is that possibility of maximizing the number of credits that can be used in satisfaction in the redemption of project. And so you are essentially establishing a ceiling in that case. So probably the lower the ceiling, the less incentive there is for the existing credit. So at that point, it may render them not desirable, I guess, is the best way to say it but I'd welcome the discussion to see what it is that you're visualizing. MS. LEE LOY: Sure. Yeah, maybe it is an offline discussion because we know those that, especially Department of Hawaiian Home Land credits don't have the 15 -mile radius. They can be used anywhere, island wide. And so what could be developed in Hilo at a certain price point, could then be utilized in Kona when we know development is more expensive there. Absolutely, and maybe Deputy Wan we can have an offline discussion about that. MR. BENNER: As far as follow-up is concerned, yes, I mean it is our standard practice to wait two years and go back on the third year for follow-up. But the objective in that scope of work would be confined to what do they do to accomplish the recommendations in the prior audit. And so wouldn't advance beyond that scope unless there was really a compelling reason to do so. MS. LEE LOY: Okay, great. Susan is there any thoughts on HRS? MS. KUNZ: Yes, definitely. So we have been watching that Bill that's moving through the legislature. And what we are requesting at this point, is the addition of some language into that Bill that would allow the County of Hawaii to negotiate with DHHL on the use of those credits. Language already exists in that HRS with Kauai County, and the City and County of Honolulu. So I'm basically asking for the same language, that would give me that opportunity to negotiate. You're exactly right with what we're explaining, and Hawaii County has to recognize any housing unit no matter what AMI it's built at, one for one with DHHL development. So I can keep you updated on progress with that. Page 18 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 MS. LEE LOY: That would be excellent, thank you. And then you had such a long explanation for recommendation number one. And something Mr. Inaba touched upon, which is how these credits are becoming a commodity. And my concern is affordable housing credit that currently exist and was entered into the department. For example, year 2015 was given a value, right. The credit in new payments right, and then being utilized. I guess what I'm saying is, I know to develop housing in 2015 was at a particular cost or at a particular price. Whereas that same housing exact same footprint, would be more today. And so I'm trying to, and I see Deputy Wan kind of like nodding her head it's the value of that credit. And so there could be an explosion of credits, because we see the infusion of a lot of money. And then those credits are stacked and held on to for some future date, 10 or 15 years down the road, which makes them incredibly valuable which could triple, right. The value they built it at compared to the value that they kind of utilized them at. And I'm looking at Auditor Benner about how not only we adjust our Administrative Rules, but the capturing of the commodity of that credit. And I see Deputy Wan over here. MS. WAN: Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan. To address your question, Council Member Lee Loy. The commodity portion that you're talking about right now is a function that has been written into the code, by allowing the transfer of these credits. So that is a question that I'm going to pose back to you, to consider in amending Chapter 11. Because if you want to reduce the cost price value of these credits as a commodity, there's going to need be a change in Chapter 11 to curve that. And I will just let you know right now, as you were saying a credit today is worth far more than a credit 10 years ago. So somebody could buy a credit that was earned 10 years ago, and it's worth more theoretically in the—when you're looking at construction cost. But right now, Chapter 11 does not allow for the extinguishment of those credits. So that is something that this body is going to have to consider, when you're contemplating looking at revisions of Chapter 11. So right now, I hear your concerns and they're valid. But right now, they're out of the hands of the Office of Housing and Community Development to even restrict within Administrative Rules. Because of what Chapter 11 allows. So I hope that answers your question. MS. LEE LOY: It does. I think it actually settles me a little bit. You know, thinking about all this infusion of money, the Department of Hawaiian Homelands, how their credit works, how they can utilize it all over the place as far as island wide. I know construction cost in east Hawaii is a lot less expensive than it is in Kona. So I'm just trying to balance all of those things. I would love Page 19 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 to take this conversation offline with you guys, and especially work with that one area of HRS around the Department of Hawaiian Homeland credits. Thank you. MS. WAN: Thank you. MS. LEE LOY: Thanks for an excellent, excellent report. I yield. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you. I see your light Council Member Inaba, but let me check in and see if anybody who hasn't had a chance to speak wants to go first before we go back to you. Council Member Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Galimba, was on. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Oh, I thought she turned it off. Alright go ahead, Council Member Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: It should be pretty quick. I'm just really curious having—I've read some of it probably not as carefully as I should of, of the report. And I don't have an idea of what a credit actually is, like what is it physically and it may have changed over the years. Is it written into an agreement? Is it a piece of paper with a certificate? MR. BENNER: Yeah, that's a great question. Because we were hoping for a similar to a bond sheet of paper that would back it, but it's not what the number on a spreadsheet. So there's a calculation that's performed of how many units are going to be built. And then there's a requirement of how many of those have to be affordable, and if the developer elects to build an excess of their required amount and their afforded excess credits. And that is a number on the spreadsheet that once they obtain, that they can turn in and sell to another developer to be used in satisfaction of their project. MS. GALIMBA: How can you sell something if you don't tell the OHCD (Office of Housing and Community Development), like I don't understand how that works. MS. WAN: Deputy Corporation Counsel, Sylvia Wan. So that the answers to your question actually lie within Chapter 11. And under Section 11-5, that entire section details how somebody can earn credits. How you can satisfy your requirement of credits. And under 11-15, it talks about you have the opportunity to earn excess credits. And those credits are going to be credits that are earned by producing affordable housing beyond your requirement. And it is earned in the formula that is set out within the code. So that's why you can produce one unit of housing, but depending on how it was sold or rented at a particular average Page 20 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 medium income. You could theoretically earn half a credit, one credit, one and half credits or two credits depending on—and it's all written within the code. MS. GALIMBA: I got that. I just don't understand how there could be credits floating if MS. WAN: So they're not necessarily floating, they're attached to the fulfillment of a particular agreement. Which says this is your requirement, if you build more than this requirement it is going to equal these many credits. And provided they actually do what they said they're going to do, then they get awarded that many credits. And it's literally just a contract that is recorded, and then can be transferred by other legal documents. And at the end of the day, you get a developer who says, "Hey I have these credits from developer A," and then housing goes and make sure that those credits are valid. MS. GALIMBA: See so there's an agreement, which is you have a copy assume it's somewhere hopefully. MS. WAN: Yes. MS. GALIMBA: If the server didn't eat it somehow. And then the developer who sold the credit would go to their lawyer and create a document that said connected to this agreement with OHCD we're buying these credits from the developer. So that's how it could be sort of floating. It could get out of your purview, right? Okay. MS. WAN: I'm sorry. Deputy Corporation Counsel, Sylvia Wan. Yes, so addressing your question you got the right sentiment, right. So there's an agreement establishing they have credits. And then if there's a transfer there needs to be another document memorializing that transfer from Developer A to Developer B. And when Developer B wants to use those credits in satisfaction of their requirement under 11-5, they need to show to OHCD basically I have good title to these credits. And then OHCD will then do their own investigation to make sure yes, those credits do in fact exist. So they are a legal instrument, but they exist in the form of legal documents. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. MS. WAN: You're welcome. It's not like money, right. Okay, thank you. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Do you yield? MS. GALIMBA: Yes. Page 21 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Okay. Council Member Inaba, did you have a quick comment? MR. INABA: Yeah, just a quick comment. You know, Deputy Wan mentioned that it is on us to fix Chapter 11 to correct things that have gone on. But we're waiting right now, I mean technically the ball is in court of OHCD. Because we're waiting for this report. None of us is going to put forth a bill when we're waiting and been waiting for months. So I just want to say yes, it's our kuleana to fix it once we get the report back which is with housing at the moment. So God's speed on getting us the report from that consultant, so can make these improvements and close up these loop holes. Thank you. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you for that clarification. Council Member— MS. VILLEGAS: Chair Kagiwada? ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Yes. We have Council Member Kaneali`i- Kleinfelder and then we'll go to you Council Member Villegas, okay. MS. VILLEGAS: Great, thank you. Sorry for interrupting. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: No, worries. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. First off mahalo to Mr. Inaba for bringing this resolution forward to begin the audit because that was crucial. Cause we had a lot of questions, but without that instrument it doesn't happen. And then second of all mahalo to your department, and your team for this report. Because this is very, very, thorough, which seems to be your M.O. I really appreciate how much information you put in this report, but also your recommendations. And the thoroughness of your recommendations, because it gives us a very clear path forward on what needs to be addressed. And even suggested language, and areas of code that need to be addressed to make it more effective. So, just very impressed by your output. MR. BENNER: Thanks for the discussion regarding the resolution and tailoring it in a way that allowed us that latitude. That helped with that work to define what scope we were allowed to do, and where we could take it once we had initially the land. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Agreed. And it was difficult because we also have litigation happening at the same time, and you were a little weary of jumping into this while litigation was in play. So yeah, thank you, thank you, Page 22 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 take it to this point. Somethings I wanted to touch on here, when you first opened your opening statement what was your comment? Sound like you quoted something, I couldn't find that in the report. I was searching through it to see what that quote came from. I think it was regarding MR BENNER: It's not in the report, but in Chapter 11 in the objective statement for 11-2 and I think objective number five. It discusses how the code requirement considers current economic and housing conditions. And what we talk about is essentially that those economic housing conditions fluctuate over time, there's absence flows to it. And so at times where the market might have more offerings to provide, there has been at least one situation. Which somebody offered an alternative to those things enumerated in code, based on an influx of housing at that time. And that of course has since evaporated. So what we asked for is that it be more considerate of essentially current and future economic conditions. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, I like that a lot. That was a really important note, I was looking for it in here. I was like where did he get that from? Now I know where it is, thank you. Also in here, and I think Council Member Galimba touched on it. But it says that two of our servers toasted in 2018, and that was a substantial lost information that is non -retrievable. Correct? MR. BENNER: Yes, sir. And that is separate than any server lost that the County wide server lost is specific to the department. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And the reason I'm saying that is it kind of—not to put question to this but it means that there could be missing information, correct? As far as number— MR. BENNER: There is missing information. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So this is the most accurate picture you can give us, but also very considerable that we are missing some— MR. BENNER: Which is why on page 22, it's not my preference to do call outs. But at the point where we realize we couldn't make absolute desertion of what those numbers were, we had to draw attention to that. So page 22 calls out that we can't make that absolute insurance. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And I think that's very important to note. And then also that the employee who was in question was terminated in 2019, is that right? MR. BENNER: I'm not sure if it was terminated or resigned. Page 23 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Or resigned, one or the other. But is no longer with us as of 2019. MR. BENNER: Correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So server lost, loss of information employee leaves. I find those, I hate coincidence cause there never coincidences. MR. BENNER: It's beyond my scope. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yup. Yeah, I was reading an article today, I got it from a friend. I'll give the title, it's a great article regarding weaponization. Five tools to disarm the weaponization of affordable housing, and really, really, breaking down the affordable housing crisis. Which has been a term as many volving over the past five, ten years. And you can see it rolling out. But also making sure that we're tracking affordable housing in line is what we need. And not letting it become a tool for developers to use to take advantage of land and resources. And I find this report and the direction of that article really going hand in hand right now at this moment. MR. BENNER: Yup. All sorts of different intentions out there, but I do have to also say that we did see developers who doing great work as well. So I think that should be acknowledged on the other hand. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It does, it goes both ways. To that effect, I mean some of these here why we really began with in my head was having agreements for the credits—it's five already? Come back to me, I yield. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: It's okay, do you just need a minute to wrap up? Okay. Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Chair Kagiwada. Thank you, Mr. Benner, for being here, and for once again a very thorough presentation and report. Did I hear that correctly, that in 2019 was when the prior housing staff member was busted for the housing credit scheme. And that's the same year that all the information was lost off the housing server? MR. BENNER: I don't know that I have the exact—we stayed away from the employee or the circumstances surrounding that. I would be kind of hesitant to comment. Regarding the server lost, maybe the Administrator could confirm what timeframe the server lost happened at. I'm not completely sure. MS. KUNZ: Susan Kunz, Housing Administrator. So my understanding because this was prior to me returning to the Office of Housing, but I understand that there Page 24 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 was a crash of the Laserfiche system in our office specifically, and I believe that happened in 2018. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Thank you. I thought I heard Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder mentioning that just a few moments ago, so I was trying to put that together if I had heard correctly. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder would you mind clarifying, was that what your question was? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I was pointing out in the report that we had the server crashes in 2018, and then the employee who was in question was terminated or resigned in 2019. MS. VILLEGAS: Got you, thank you. I thought I heard something like that, but I wasn't quite sure. Okay, a quick question for you, Mr. Benner. In your opportunity to dig really deep in this department, I suppose I wonder if you came across or know who wrote these parts of Chapter 11? And where was the inception of this plan, which seems so flawed and very creative to benefit a certain few number of people? And he's unfortunately open and too vulnerable for corruption. Do we know who wrote this or when this was included? MR. BENNER: I think Chapter 11 has gone through a multiple iteration. I believe that in 2013 in -lieu fees were removed from the code in 2014. Reports by the Administrator became the language was less in making those optional instead of compulsory. I couldn't give the—we didn't do a timeline of all changes that affected the code, but those are the ones that come to mind. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, thank you. I'm just wondering historically, how we ended up where we're at today. And then my last question is, I appreciate Council Member Galimba questions about how this makes sense in any capacity. To have something and be able to sell something that you didn't really have. But it's a piece of paper, the values change, and they aren't even actually worth the whole home. If you need to have 20 percent affordable housing and you're building a hundred homes, it doesn't mean you have to do twenty homes as affordable. But in my district, there has a development that went decades ago, and they still have never fulfilled their affordable housing requirement. That was supposed to be whoever was in office at the time agreed on the contribution of a piece of land to the County that's actually in a flood plain. For the county to build affordable housing, and apparently that never even closed. So I'm wondering moving forward how do we, and where are the avenues for accountability. Developers, too, even have to provide that which they were accountable to, and which they got all their permits and all the different things in the first place. Page 25 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 (Note: At this time Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. STRANCE: May I interject? ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Yes. Corporation Counsel do you want to try to answer, or you're interjecting about something else. MS. STRANCE: I'm interjecting to caution this body on drawing conclusions and its attributions to people when they don't have all of the facts. And we're at a public hearing, I appreciate that there's frustration with the access housing credits. There's a whole legislative history to that act, which if at some point and time this body is interested in providing some context. But toI'm uncomfortable with the discussion about attribution of timing of events to people on private citizens. And when we're talking about an audit and specific projects which, Mr. Benner may have some information based upon his audit. But not all of the information, and we're getting into a lot of conjecture here. And it's contextualized towards people, which would really caution this body not to do. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you, so noted. And let's yes, try to stick to what the actual report is about and what we ask for here. So thank you so much. Council Member Villegas, were you finished with your questions? MS. VILLEGAS: Yes, I yield. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. Thank you, Auditor Benner, and your team as always. An excellent work product very impress to see the level of detail, and of course the visualizations as always. I'll start like a 30,000 -foot view, that I think will not upset our Corporation Counsel. Which is that, you know, Council Member Inaba and I did spend a lot of time playing around in Chapter 11. And I think it's a cautionary tale from the standpoint that there were programs and things coming down the pipe that required legislation to be created pretty quickly, and probably without as much deliberation as it needed. Additionally as time went on there were amendments made that were for good intentions. For example, the going away from in -lieu fees was on the bases of the in -lieu fees were so manini like they were just not even worth it, it just didn't even work. And so this was presented as an alternative. And what I just want to say, kind of on a global scale, is that in my experience or my interpretation of things. And why I want to bring it up as a cautionary tale, is that I don't think there was ever ill intent, but it was a series of circumstances. And when we talk about the particular legal case that's out there, there was an opportunity created for it. But not by intent, I think. And so that's just sort of my Page 26 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 experience. Welcome to weigh in, or it might be outside your scope to weigh in on that. But perception is that this is something we should be taking into consideration, as we develop new offices or do other things that we really need to be thoughtful about it. And really work through those intended consequences. MR. BENNER: Yeah, and our office doesn't try to establish intent on much of anything. But we would say that it just has a natural process, even things that are stood up very well over time will tend to degrade. So that's why continual reassessment and total quality management have to be applied in and throughout. MS. KIMBALL: That's why I'm so glad that we have this body of individuals in place right now, which I think is very much the appropriate body to be looking at Chapter 11. And evaluating where we can close some of those loopholes and bringing it up to date and making it a quality piece of legislation. I did have a couple specific questions on the audit itself, page 20 the pie chart there, there's 11 percent that are unknown. Does that correlate being here to this table, where the AHA, Affordable Housing Agreement, is unavailable. MR. BENNER: Well to give absolute insurance, I would probably follow-up with you offline. But I would say, that is most likely. MS. KIMBALL: Okay. I think maybe one your staff might— MR. ight MR. BENNER: Yeah, we didn't have sufficient documentation to be able to confirm the method of satisfaction. MS. KIMBALL: Okay, thank you. And then on the previous page, I'm actually going backwards on the report here. Page 19, which is one of the most fun and colorful charts I've seen in a long time. You have the orange bar there is the preapproved are those, I'm guessing again based on looking the tabular data that this includes things that are in process right now, as well as some things were pre - approved in the past but still unresolved at this stage. MR. BENNER: Really the pre -awarded credits are largely problematic files. MS. KIMBALL: Okay. And is that a correct assertion that it's a mix of things that are potentially going on now, as well as things that are just completely unaccounted for. MR. BENNER: I think that there are various stages. I don't think that there's a blanket answer that I could apply to all of them. So there's been some recourse on part of Corporation Counsel and some cases some of them fit into where those credits were seized as part of the scheme and yeah, that's the majority of them. Page 27 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 MS. KIMBALL: Okay, great thank you. And on page 15 and 16, another table I noticed that some of them are in pink there's no indication what pink means. What is the meaning of pink? MR. BENNER: On the page prior to that we point out the fact that this was the table that was provided in the public's sphere, this is out on, I believe Civil Beat. And when the department initially provided this table, the summary amount at the bottom here is based on the pink highlighted cells. And actually it was a formula error that did not capture some of those additional cells. MS. KIMBALL: Got it, okay. Yeah, great thank you. Just want to call attention to just one more chart, because it's in here. And it's not directly related to the audit, but it's something you brought in on page eight the figure from UHERO (University of Hawaii Economic Research Organization), and I just want to call it out because it is a graph that is showing a relationship between permits and regulation and the cost. And this is correlation, right, not causation? There was a relationship between those two things, and I just want to call it out because I think we're at a stage where we're also talking permitting and regulations and all of this stuff. This graph does not mean one causes the other, but there is a relationship. And perhaps, you know, the fact that we live in the middle of the Pacific with all sorts of national disasters. So therefore, we have a lot of regulations, and it also costs a lot. Like that might be the actual cause of the fact relationship, not the regulations. But you put it in here, so wanted to call attention to that. Thanks, I yield, Chair. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Alright. Anybody who hasn't had a chance to speak yet, want to speak? Before we go back to other people. Okay, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Okay, last question. Unless you bring something else up that's super amazing. Page 21 there's credits pre -awarded and resold. This was to me kind of an interesting point, pre and post audit. I'm looking over these four Lava Kuakini, Luna Loa, Suffolk and West View, that equals out to about almost 400 credits. Just for doing the math from the proceeding graph, and table that you gave on 17 and 18. MR. BENNER: For all pre -awarded credits? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, all pre -awarded credits. MR. BENNER: I would say more than that because the Triple A development by itself has 522. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Well I guess what I'm tracking is, pre - awarded OACD resold but never having constructed a unit. And that to me stands Page 28 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 out, whether if it yes, yes, and no. And that really stood out. Is that still a procedure or practice that we do? MR. BENNER: No, it's not. And the department should be recognized for that, there isn't recent activity that indicates that's still ongoing. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, that's good. Because for someone to buy the credits never construct a thing, and then sell the credits later on. That is to me that's just— MR. ust MR. BENNER: Well and as part of Corporation Counsel intervention in this, I mean their solidifying their processes to where those credits, when the department actually recognizes them as being earned. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. Very good auditor, thank you. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Alright, Council Member Inaba. MR. INABA: Just one last thing. And I think it's like a plea to everyone on the Council if you don't understand Chapter 11 like you can understand it while you sleep to go talk to our housing office, go talk to Deputy Wan, go talk to our auditor, talk to me. But if we're going to make improvements later it's like we all need to have a good handle on it. Even though when we have rezonings coming before us, and they have affordable housing requirements we have to understand at least what we're working with right now. Okay. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Alright. I appreciate that. I appreciate all your work of you and your team, looks like we will continue to have many discussions around this as we go forward. Looking forward to getting that report from the Office of Housing and Community Development. And moving ahead with our changes to Chapter 11. So thank you very much for being here. May I have a vote to close file on 112 please. All those in favor. Vote on Comm. 112: The motion to close file on Comm. 112 was carried Filed by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Acting Chair Kagiwada – 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Galimba –1. Excused: None. Page 29 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: We have one more item. And I want to apologize for you having to wait around for so long. Clerk, could you please read in, or do we have any testimony on Communication 111? Comm. 111: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION BY THE HAWAII FLORICULTURE AND NURSERY ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT ERIC TANOUYE, AND THE HAWAII TROPICAL FLOWER COUNCIL PRESIDENT THONG TENG NEO REGARDING ORNAMENTAL HORTICULTURE From Council Member Rebecca Villegas, dated February 2, 2023. ; and Comm. 111.1: From Council Member Rebecca Villegas, dated February 24, 2023, transmitting a PowerPoint presentation. Motion to Close File: Ms. Villegas moved to close file on Comm. 111. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Council Member Villegas would you like to say anything since you brought this forward, before we ask our guest to talk on this issue. MS. VILLEGAS: I just first off want to thank them for these beautiful lei that they sent each one of us, on the Council for us to wear today. And for their patience as we navigated our new committees, and where and how to most appropriately placing it to be heard today. My apologies, I can't be with you in chambers there, but I trust that everyone there appreciate the leis that you shared with us. So thank you, Chair Kagiwada, for taking it from here. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you so much. Once again, I apologize for you having to wait. We are very excited to hear your presentation, and I will echo the thank you for the beautiful lei. Go ahead. (Note: At this time, Economic Development Specialist Glenn Sako came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. SAKO: Thank you. Glenn Sako Economic Development Specialist, with the Department of Research and Development. And my area that I work with is agriculture. And I thank you for this opportunity to what I wanted to do was just increase the awareness of the Council and the Committee, about the impact that agriculture has on our island economy. Agriculture has always been a part of our history; I mean it's well known. But we sometimes take it for granted. And that during the recent covid pandemic there was a lot of emphasis on our food system, and our agriculture food producers. Which is rightly so, because we needed to take care of those who lost Page 30 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 their jobs or were unable to take care of themselves. Well what I wanted to do was bring forward a portion of our agricultural industry, the ornamental and floral cultural industry, so that they can at least talk about their impact on Hawai `i. And you know, we had the recent lava flow that took out probably half of our orchid productions in Kapoho. We have recently lost two of our largest palm exporters. Some of these things have not reached the mainstream media. And so we just wanted this opportunity, and we thank for it to at least increase the awareness. So at this time I'd like to introduce Eric Tanouye who's the President of the Hawaii Floriculture and Nursery Association (HFNA). He's also the resident of the SHAG, Synergistic Hawaii Agriculture Council, thank you Eric. I just spit out these acronyms, and then I sometimes forget you know what they mean. And then of course backing him up we have the Executive Director of the HFNA and HTFC and BIAN, all the acronyms again, Big Island Association of Nurserymen, Hawaii Tropical Fire Council, thank you Eric. But this is Judy Schilling, she'll take this place once I leave. So thank you very much. (Note: At this time, President of the Hawaii Floriculture and Nursery Association Eric Tanouye came forward to address the members of Committee.) MR. TANOUYE: Thank you, Glenn. We appreciate your assistance and support to our industry, through good or bad he's always there to support us. So first of all Eric Tanouye, I'm President of Hawaii Floriculture and Nursery Association and Vice President of Hawaii Tropical Flower Council, which I'm speaking on behalf of these two organizations today. To Chairperson Rebecca Villegas, who's maybe not with us now maybe she might have left already but also, Vice Chair Jennifer Kagiwada and members of the Communications, Reports, and Council Oversight Committee. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Council Member Villegas is in Kona, so just to let you know. MS. VILLEGAS: I'm here. MR. TANOUYE: Okay, I couldn't see her. We thank you so much and want to mahalo you with a lei today. We felt that would be really appropriate to let you know that we appreciate all the effort in agriculture that goes to both farming and ranching on this island. But also specifically today to floral culturing and ornamentals, which is like the non -edible part of agriculture. I joke about how we're like the Rodney Dangerfield of agriculture. We sometimes don't get the respect, but we're here to make you smile today and give you an update on what we do in agriculture. So thank you again, for giving us this opportunity to be in front of you today. Page 31 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 (Note: At this time, Mr. Tanouye provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office or online by navigating to the Council's video archives from the County's homepage at www.hawaiicounty.gov. A copy of the presentation is made a part of the record, see Comm. 111.1.) MR. TANOUYE: So, we'd be happy to answer any questions if you have any. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Council Member Kierkiewicz, go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you Chair. And thank you to Council Member Villegas for putting this communication forward, Eric and Judy for this presentation. I was in Chicago with Council Member Lee Loy, for a NACo (National Association of Counties) event last fall, and one of the workshops was around agriculture. And I was pleasantly surprised that the conversation included a florist. And so it's something you always think about flowers, when you think about agriculture you think about food security and sustainability. And so I just really appreciated the conversation around, here was an individual working with the county in that municipality in particular to leverage vacant properties to grow flowers. But what was super intriguing was the workforce development piece. Where they were connecting with youth community colleges to basically let them know here's something economically valuable for you. And so what I wanted to know was what is the demographic of the growers in your particular industry, and how are you working to build up the capacity within Gen Z (Generation Z) and subsequent generations to take up this practice of growing flowers? Because it's clearly something that's not going away. Every week when I go to KTA, I get my little bundle of probably grade c farmers market quality flowers. But they're beautiful and they bring so much joy to my heart, and so much brightness to my home. So I want us to keep producing, because these flowers are beautiful. And how are we encouraging the next generation to take up, farming of flowers. MR. TANOUYE: Thank you. Great question, Council Woman Kierkiewicz. I'm going to answer it in a few different ways. What HFNA has done is first with our design programs that we're offering, we're bringing in Canadian designers because we're targeting at that international market right now. We're bringing in U.S. designers, and we're also using Hawaii designers. In the design shows the demonstrations and the workshops that we do, number one we put the flowers into the designer's hands. Because once they feel and touch and see the flower the Page 32 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 graphic that's how they learn. Because designers are like artist, they have to see the color they have to see and feel the product and then their creativity kicks in. But what we're doing is, we're making it fun. And so we're trying to invite younger people in the industry to participate. Another way we're doing this is, we have a GIA (Grant -in -Aid) grant that allots us an ability to work with DOE. So not too many people are targeting the middle schools. So what we're looking at is, we created programs through video, because we felt video—we're not doing TikTok yet, but video. So we have a whole bunch of videos, if you go on www.hawaiineotropica.com, you can see some of the video. And so, we provide these videos as curriculum to the teachers in the FFA (Future Farmers of America), and Young Farmer Programs in the state. So there's a few high schools that have these programs, all we can do is offer and ask the teacher please use these videos and show it to your class, students. What they'll consider is maybe coming to our industries. Some will come in as production people like me because they like to be outdoors, and they like to grow things. Some become USDA or Department of Ag inspectors. Some become further education, and they become researchers. Some become extension agents at the University CTAHR (College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources), some will become instructors, professors, and lecturers. And some will become florist, some will become designers. So what we have is videos that do all these different types of potential occupation, and we give it to the DOE system. And we hope that creates like an interest where these students through their teacher, because we invite the students and teachers also to our wedding celebrations or just celebrations seminar that we do every year. And so they're welcome to come on, most likely virtually because the students are still under 18 so it's a little difficult on the transportation and safety. So they usually will do virtual. So these are some ways that we're trying to get the next generation to come In. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That's great, really fascinating. Glenn was there anything you wanted to share from the R&D (Research and Development) side, on how we're building up workforce development in this particular industry. MR. SAKO: Glenn Sako, Economic Development Specialist. Actually, I wanted to add a little more to Eric's answer. Your question about the age of the workforce. Well typically the statistics show that they're about my age me and Erick, we're the example so in the 60's. However, as Eric mentioned, is that there is an influx of younger producers. And we've seen it on the tours of the nurseries, and there's entrepreneurs out there. So it appears that this industry is a little more Page 33 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 attractive as far as growth, but a younger generation. Because of perhaps the social media, and the working conditions. Now also because I mentioned that you know, some orchid industries got displaced by the lava flow. And Eric mentioned that they set up on the shipment land. There is a program that they've instituted to bring in and train new producers, so that they can learn how to continue this industry. The industry is so wide open right now that they have no problems educating new producers. It's not like a secret. Sometimes in the past it was like you don't want to have competition, and so you try to keep it to yourself, what you've learned. However, this industry is very open about it and is willing to bring in new people. Because the understanding is this, you can have a very good product but very low volume. And the market is going to be difficult to keep on going, because they need volume to establish a market. And when we lost half of our production, that really made people step back. So what we want to do is bring that volume back up again and establish that market share. So that's part of the vision that they have here. R&D has been very active in supporting HFNA, and the other ornamental industries in their promotion and marketing programs to help them. As Eric mentioned it's a very competitive industry. So we are looking, you know, trying to support them as much as we can. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That's very helpful, interesting presentation. Thank you again Eric and Judy for being here. Chair, I yield. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Thank you. Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Eric, thank you for being here. Always enjoy your presentation, your sense of humor is just amazing. I wanted to walk back a little bit into your report. You have some data collection regarding value of sales, and we see 2019 absent. And I was just wondering is that lava, or covid or just— MR. ust MR. TANOUYE: Is that with the NASS (National Agriculture Statistics Service) report? MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, on your presentation you had the MR. TANOUYE: Yeah. In my report I had about 89.2 million in 19, which is what was clocked in. That may be just an error, we didn't plug that number in maybe. MS. LEE LOY: Got you. And then, you know, always on -board Hitomi (Floral Designer Hitomi Gilliam-AIFD (American Institute of Floral Designers) has Page 34 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 come here. We did a huge display that was just such a wonderful opportunity. And to Ms. Kierkiewicz point, when we were in Chicago, how some of this urban gardening is happening in those spaces. And what was really interesting, is that they're doing it in Chicago. And I know your American Institute, is having a conference in Chicago and would love to connect you with that florist when you guys get there. I had a question related to how, and to your point, kind of reaching that Gen alpha. You know, Council Member Kierkiewicz and I went to the National Annual Conference, and we had Haku leis, but they were made actually out of tropicals. And we picked that because they last way longer. Being curious about that work force development and those social media platforms. Because we see a lot of times on Instagram and other places, where people are offering you know making these bridal flowers or Haku leis. How is HFNA and others kind of engaging into those gen alphas who already have captured the market. And more than likely are buying those exceptional sea grade from the farmers market to make these beautiful products for their clientele. MR. TANOUYE: Thank you. Great question Councilwoman Lee Loy. This past year at our celebrations we had Maui Kum, she's a teacher a Haku teacher. The company was called Haku Maui I believe, yeah, Brittany Texeira. And on Maui she is well known for making lei po`o and all different kind of leis. Fragrant leis, Haku, all kinds of fragrant and colorful leis. And so she does workshops, so we actually had her do a workshop for us. It was very, very, successful. All ages enjoyed that workshop, so we will continue to do that. And we probably want to do a video in that fashion, so we can actually have students learn how to they all go to YouTube and learn right. So we figure just make a video and have somebody because there's many people in the State that do this. We just got to ask them to make the time available, make the video then we can show it. I think that would be a great way, and we put it on the website. Easy, easy way for people to learn. And relatively when they go to our website, everything is free. So for students that's the best, right. Normally when I was a student, I was poor, so everything you got to ask your parents for all that kozukai (spending money) money, right. So for going on our website, everything is going to be free. So for them to learn and to get talent and if they really like it, they can pursue that as kind of a hobby. And usually a hobby becomes a business, yeah, if you get good at it. MS. LEE LOY: One last question. You know, you talked about export and export of these tropicals, and I remember when we did our travels for our sister city walking into Haneda Airport there were all these amazing flowers. And it was actually like I was walking in Honolulu Airport. Of the numbers that we've captured here, and we know that Japan has been kind of off shut down for a little bit. What is the plan to kind of get our boutique kind of flowers back into that Page 35 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 market. And I recognize the good work that Glenn is doing with R&D and capturing the funding. You know, we want to be strategic about pushing and resources at the right time to kind of meet up with the opening of Japan and then all of our Sister City connections. MR. TANOUYE: Well, I cannot answer to the Sister City right now. But that's a big opportunity because we have relationships there. I'm a president of Synergistic Hawaii Agriculture Council. So it's a group that brings in USDA foreign ag service funds, and the grant that we use is called Market Assistance Program. And that fund can be used by our four commodity groups, so it's floral cultural, papaya, coffee, and macnut belong to this shack group. And we can do market studies, we can pay for material to go to the country, we can also send people for like trade mission or do reverse trade mission. So these would be things we can consider doing again in Japan. Right now we're targeting Canada, so we're doing most of our research and work in Canada. And that's why we're bringing in Canadian designers and that's why we're sending product to them. I think maybe when opportunity comes up for Japan, we can re -look at Japan. Because Hawaii was very large, very big in Japan at one point. And when Japan went full auction where you had to compete with the world the problem with that equation, is you got have more volume each year to the auction and you got to sell or be willing to sell at a cheaper price. And so when we could move our product from Japan back into the United States market, United States market is growing. Most of our growers chose to slowly pull product back from Japan. Because Japan when you sell from the auction it's consignment, basically you're rolling the dice with them every week. And you don't know what you're going to get paid until maybe 30 to 45 days later when get by your wholesaler. So it's a risky game to play on the auction. Especially when the market at that time was saturated with a lot of tropical product coming out of South East Asia and Holland. But things are changing, times are changing right now. A lot of the competition that we had 20 years ago, 15 years ago, is no longer there too. They're having same problems we're having, whether it's Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia there all having the same problems. That they have an aging problem. Because a lot of the next generation doesn't want to come into the business. So they're getting old, and a lot of the farms are closing. Foreigners are going through the same thing that we're experiencing. So we just want to get ahead of the game if we can market ourselves to our own people for good or better here. And get that next generation to come in, we think that the opportunity is good. Because every place is having the same problem, this is not unique to Hawaii or the U.S. it's an international problem right now. The aging farmer problem. Page 36 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 MS. LEE LOY: Thank you for that insight. And absolutely the strategies in Canada, at some point hopefully Japan will open up. But watching the yen dollar value, right. Right now a lot of travel doesn't want to happen just because of the power of the dollar, right now. But thank you so much for this presentation, looking forward to supporting and whatever Glenn needs as far as R&D. And future grant awards, look forward to supporting those. Thank you for being here. I yield. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: I don't want to stifle any more discussion, but I do want to let you know if we go over eight or nine more minutes we would have to take a 10 minute break to change the tape to keep recording. No pressure, but yes if you could be MS. EVANS: You know, I just want to see what my role could be in the Council to kind of help the industry and what came to mind is the use of enterprises, the use of agricultural parks. We got Chair DelaCruz in State Senate that is really pushing in Central Oahu these ag parks. I mean he's having these relationships with the ag park and local community college; I think West Oahu Community College to try to get that synergy. Because it's not growing the flowers as much as regulations and business and borrowing money. I mean there's a whole thing about being a farmer. And it's clear that you're teaching the next generation, but some of these people don't have parents or uncles or aunties to teach them. So it's pretty overwhelming when you think about—you have to learn fertilizers and seeds and propagations and on, and on. You know, I don't know how to do this, but maybe offline, or somehow, how do we look at what they've done, what DelaCruz has done, and is that something we can do on this island that uses the land. I think we have appropriately put aside land to try to promote people getting on the land but we're not going the next level, and that is kind of that entrepreneurship spirit and instilling it. I just want to put it out there. Hopefully, there's something, I mean I don't know if you've looked at that but anyway, just putting it out there. MR. TANOUYE: Thank you, Councilwoman Evans. I just want to be real short because I see another red light there. So Hawaii Community College does have a program called Ag Connect. You might want to connect with Chancellor Solemsaas (Rachel Solemsaas). I'm working withI'm one of the early charter participants so we have an intern now from that program, on our nursery now, so we hope that this will continue. You know, it's exactly, I think what you have in mind it's just taking that new person, like a forming a go-between type of relationship with a nursery man or a farmer and making sure the personalities match and then seeing if they want to just become a manager or become an entrepreneur or take over the farm for that matter. So all of that is what they're looking at. Page 37 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 MS. EVANS: Thank you, I yield. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Okay, thanks. Go ahead, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for the presentation today and for being here, I really appreciate what you do for our growers. We have a similar thing for FedEx with HFNMA and it helps us out tremendously. So I understand those kinds of benefits are crucial to the industry. If you need support, let us know what we can do at the county level so we can help out R&D to help out you folks. If I'm not mistaken, there are a lot of orchid killers in this building so maybe they can make an orchid killers' anonymous program that we can join with. Cut them off the back lanais up here, all around the county. It might be worth looking into. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Sorry to interrupt, we are going to have to switch over the tape and it's going to take us 10 minutes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I yield. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: Unless people have anything else, can we MS. KIMBALL: Motion to adjourn. ACTING CHR KAGIWADA: No, first we need please vote. All those who vote to close file on Communication 111. Vote on Comm. 111: The motion to close file on Comm. 111 was carried by the Filed following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, and Acting Chair Kagiwada — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Galimba and Villegas — 2. Excused: None. Page 38 CRCOC-4 March 7, 2023 ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 6:16 p.m., Mr. Inaba moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. Kimball and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Inaba, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, and Acting Chair Kagiwada — 7. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Galimba and Villegas — 2. Excused: None. Approved: . Rebecca Villegas, ehair Communications, Reports, and Council Oversight Committee RV/rk (Date) Page 39