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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOEAC 2023/06/06 (2022-2024) Committee on Governmental Operations and External Affairs 10th Session Hawai`i County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawai`i June 6, 2023 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations and ORDER: External Affairs was called to order at 2:56 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Cindy Evans, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Cindy Evans, Chair Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Vice Chair Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Mr..Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (came in later) STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) CHR. EVANS: On this agenda we have Bill 49, which I authored, so I'm going to at this point turn it over to my Vice Chair, Member Lee Loy. Relinquish Chair: At this time, the Chair relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Lee Loy. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. Let the record reflect that I have assumed the Chair. Mr. Clerk. GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Bill 49: INITIATES AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE III, SECTION 3-4 OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CHARTER(2022 EDITION), RELATING TO VACANCY IN OFFICE Proposes reducing the time allotted for the County Council to appoint a successor to a vacant County Council district seat, establishing restrictions on official candidates being appointed to a vacant County Council district seat, and that a person who has been duly elected to serve the upcoming Council term shall automatically fill a vacancy that occurs for that County Council district seat. Reference: Comm. 305 Intr. by: Ms. Evans Comm. 305.1: From Council Member Cindy Evans, dated May 24, 2023, transmitting a proposed amendment to Bill 49. Motion to Approve: Ms. Evans moved to recommend passage of Bill 49 on first reading. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Evans, if you could lead us in the discussion. Just go ahead and lay the foundation of Bill 49. MS. EVANS: Thank you. This came about—what happened was,the former Council Member Tim Richards was elected in a State race and he resigned, I believe, the day after he was elected to the State race. The vacancy—District 9 had no representation from that date until December 5th. I called, as the candidate who won in the primary, I called and talked to Chair Maile David about what do you do to fill a vacancy? It was why this, actually, Charter amendment came about. I worked with Betsy Strance (Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance); I worked with Maile David. There was a lot of discussion about our current Charter and what it said about filling vacancies, and a decision was made within 24 hours after Council Member Richards resigned. Within 24 hours, the two of them made a decision not to fill the vacancy and not follow the Charter. They felt that they had an option and I suspect they did, but I didn't go there because they had made the decision. What it did was it made me look at our Charter, which had not been updated, I think, since 1979. But you can see how old it is because they notify other members of vacancy by registered mail. So, it is an older Charter about filling vacancies. I thought it was time for us to visit this issue. Page 2 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 I'm open for suggestions on it. But basically, what happens is I've change it that if there is a vacancy, that within five days after the vacancy, excluding Saturdays, Sundays, and legal holidays; the Council Chairperson shall give reasonable notice of intent to all other members that there will be at the next regularly scheduled meeting, formal action to be taken on the vacancy. That's the first change. Then also, it says, "The formal action shall be a motion approved by the majority of the Council to appoint a successor to serve the remainder of the unexpired term." I did not in this, and of course, I'm always open for discussion. I did not throw in a special election tied to how much time was left, the remainder of the unexpired term. I didn't throw that in there. Kaua`i does not have special elections, but if you look at Honolulu and Mau`i, they do have special elections if there is "X" amount of time left on the unexpired term. So, I think that's really open for us to feel what's best. Then the other thing that happened in here, the question being is, I was elected in the primary, and so there was no other candidates. You have to read the verbiage of it, but it's basically saying, if you win and there is no other candidates; then if it's after the primary, and you're already voted in, that you would be the appointed person, but it would not count towards your eight-year term. If you were to term out, right? So, I hope it's pretty straightforward to you, but I just recommend that we do something, and update it. So, I'm asking for everybody's thoughts on it, and so that's where it is. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Evans. Council Members, any comments? Ms. Evans does have an amendment, but I heard her load and clear, I think she wants to have a discussion around the foundation of this before introducing her amendment. Mr. Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you , Chair. Thank you, Council Member Evans, for bringing this forward. I think I just have a couple questions. The first one is regarding the timing change from thirty days to five days, in which the Council Chairperson is supposed to notify the membership that we would take action to fill the vacancy. Perhaps I can call on Corporation Counsel to just weigh in here, because I was just running certain days for examples. For example, if I was to give notice that I was vacating my position last Monday, it's saying that the Chair would need to notify everybody by yesterday that we would be taking action at the Council meeting tomorrow. Page 3 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 I know we have, you know, our timing for agendas and all of that. Obviously, we're too late for tomorrow's agenda. But it's reading like we need to action tomorrow. It's forcing ourselves against ourselves. So, I'm just trying to see, would it be two weeks from now, or does this say it would need to be tomorrow? (Note: At this time, Assistant Corporation Counsel J Yoshimoto came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. YOSHIMOTO: Good afternoon, Council Members, J Yoshimoto, Assistant Corporation Counsel. So Vice Chair Inaba, did you want me to comment generally, or you have a specific question you want to be addressed first? What is your pleasure? MR. INABA: Let's go with general and then you can answer the five-day question. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Okay, let's see, generally speaking, we want to make sure that any amendment creates more certainty, right? Rather than, well uncertainty, to be straightforward. So, in listening to Council Member Evans, right, we want to make sure that certain things happen within a certain stated period of time. So, my initial take is that it's not clear enough. One, when the vacancy actually occurs. Is it written notice, because normally, we'd want to know, receipt upon written confirmation that the office is vacant or someone, you know, is going to resign on that date. That might be in the statute itself. I'm not sure, I haven't looked at the rest of the statute. But I think it's always good to, you know, always specify, right, what do you mean when it's vacant? In this last particular case, it was the Council Member being elected to a different office. So that vacancy happened, you know, upon the election, right, I think? MS. EVANS: And he formally resigned. MR. YOSHIMOTO: He formally resigned. Well actually, because they don't get sworn in,the State senators until January, right? MS. EVANS: No, but they take office that night at midnight. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Oh,they do? Okay. MS. EVANS: Oh yeah, it's different for us. He actually can't hold two offices at once. He became that night at midnight. Page 4 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 MR. YOSHIMOTO: Okay. So, as far as initial language, "Within five days, (excluding Saturdays, Sundays, and legal holidays) after the occurrence of the vacancy, the Council Chairperson shall give reasonable notice of intent to all remaining members of the Council on the next regular meeting date." So, what troubles me is the next regular meeting date, because if there's a sense or urgency, right, you may want to put in something earlier than that. Because like Council Member Inaba had pointed out, if it happens right after you just finished the Council meeting, you're not going to have the next one for two weeks. Is that really helping because you know, the 30 days—so that could be tightened up, I think a little bit. Also, little concerned about Council Chair's discretion to act within five days. "Shall appoint a successor if the Council fails to act." You know, because again, five days of what, right? Five days of the regular meeting date? Because in your worse-case scenario, you have a Chair that says, "well, I don't want to schedule the meeting, because I'm the Chair, I can schedule it, and if I don't then the power reverts back to me." So, I don't know. I mean, you know, highly unlikely but you never know when things can happen. If it states that, you know, because for the Council to fail to act, could mean that the Council never meets. Because in the past, I think that has been an issue. Not with this Council, so that's something to maybe tease out a little more Council Member Evans in terms of what that means. Maybe something to the effect of, after the Council having an opportunity to address the matter and having failed to act; or come to a decision. Because it could very well be. It could be four-four and you know, abstention or something like that, right? So, that might be okay in that scenario. But at least you got to be clear that there's no nefarious ways to get around,you know, what the intent is. But I also like your amendment, we're not on the amendment yet, but I think that's a good amendment to have too. MS. EVANS: Thank you. MR. INABA: Thank you, Assistant Corporation Counsel. Then,the other question I had was regarding Section(d)the "declared candidate." Just, whether it leaves room. For example, if we're 10 days before the filing deadline, and two people have filed and one person has pulled papers but not filed, are the two people ineligible because they filed, and then the other person didn't file but most likely is going to—eligible in that window? I just want to make sure. MS. EVANS: Actually, I think Jon(Henricks), our Clerk. He kind of helped. He tried to draft some language, because there is that odd time, right, where you have people that have either filed and they're legit but their nomination papers Page 5 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 say's they're not, right? So, if you have more than one candidate and they're still there then—I mean it's kind of awkward, but there is kind of those awkward times,right? MR. INABA: Okay. Well, maybe, and not necessarily a legal question, but something that the introducer can think more about just to see if there's potential for some folks to be excluded and some folks to be included when everyone is intending to actually run. I just want to make sure that there's not a weird space there. I had another question, but I can't recall what it is right now. Thank you, Council Member Evans for bringing this forward. Chair, I yield. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Mr. Inaba. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Yoshimoto, what is the guidance at the State level for our election procedures, and would this be in accordance with them or are our elections entirely up to us here in the County? MR. YOSHIMOTO: No, we operate under the confines of, you know,the State law. We operate the elections as, you know, Mr. Henricks can answer that question. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You're good Jon, but maybe a question for Mr. Yoshimoto. I'm under the assumption and I'm asking the question for the obviousness, but we operate under the State law regarding how we do elections and those things. There's this amendment for our Charter in front of us in accordance with current State law requirements for our elections in the way things are done. MR. HENRICKS: You got to help me out a little bit when you say, we operate i of the elections? Like how County State laws for elections.s. In what part elections are run? Like for Council, and Mayor, and Prosecuting Attorney? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Our HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes). I mean,the obvious question here would be, are there any requirements per HRS for this for this type of an action that's in front of us for Council seats that we need to follow? MR. HENRICKS: Filling vacancies for Council seats, no,this is exclusive to our Charter. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So, our Charter is the laws that we follow? MR. HENRICKS: Correct. Every County has provisions for how to deal with vacancies that occur for Council Members, or Mayor, or Prosecuting Attorney. Page 6 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So, this amendment would be the guiding light for our County? MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, currently in Section 3-4, you know,provides options. What Ms. Evans is trying to do is to revise those options and modify them that are currently existing. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay,thank you. Then, for the maker, the one and maybe more issues later on, but I think at this point, I'd like to try and break it. So, if I wanted to break this, there's two ways that I would break this. One, knowing that I'm going to drop out of office, I would put someone in my place. That would be the only candidate who filed, and I would drop out of office; create a vacant position, and it would be immediately filled by the one person who has applied for the office that was going to be filled, who knew about it. I'm just saying, I'm going to find ways to try and break this, okay. That's one way that I would do it. Two, I am concerned that by passing this, if the Council is electing a political position to their own body, there has to be some form of supermajority that makes that vote. Because if it gets down to a four-four vote on who's going to fill the vacant position, even for a short amount of time, a short amount of time in office can give you a considerable leg up on any potential candidate for a future election. So, even for a short amount of time, that position could lend itself to great power for someone in the future. That's what I've learned over my short time on this Council. So, I would be concerned about having the Council fill the position, because there's no way to get around that this is a political body and that appointment could lend itself to the majority walking in the door. So, I would hate to see the power politics push a player into position that perhaps the people don't want to be. So, that's my two comments for the bill right now. In reading through this and understanding the purpose, why you see this as an issue and why you're addressing it, I like that. Not quite in alignment with what I can see happening with the wrong people using this. Okay, I yield. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Chair Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. Thanks, I always appreciate it when somebody goes back and looks at something that hasn't been tweaked in a long Page 7 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 time and just makes sure it's in alignment with the modern trends like not using registered mail, for notice of intent. I had a couple comments similar to Council Member Inaba's about the timing, and I think just some wordsmithing needs to happen. You know, I think, Assistant Corp. Counsel is correct, like there needs to be something clear that this is when the timeclock starts on that five days. Whether it's an assigned letter, or you know, something like that. There has to be that. Then, with respect to, "the next regular meeting date." I think the wording needs to be, "the next available agenda for a regular meeting." So, that would mean that if the agenda has already gone out for the next meeting, it can't get on the agenda. We do want it agendized, because that's an important part of the public process. So, something like that where it would be agendized at the next regular meeting where the agenda is available. I'm sure Jon can help find a better way to say that. MR. HENRICKS: I think it's okay the way it is. I'm not speaking on Ms. Evan's behalf, but I'm going to disagree with Mr. Yoshimoto a little bit. But that's just my interpretation based upon my experiences here. On the first part, the potential problems about trying to define a vacancy is that there's so many ways an office could become vacant, that to say that you need some particular kind of notification be problematic. If you look in Section 13, you know, there's this list of things that could occur that creates a vacancy, and not all of them would provide the same type of notification or you know what I mean? So that could be problematic to say. I think leaving that alone is probably better. In that, we have to rely on people in positions of authority, meaning in this instance; the Council Chair, Corporation Counsel, and the Clerk just coming to an agreement of when the vacancy occurred. Through, unfortunately if it's a death, to know when that occurred and that's when the vacancy occurred on that day, that you know, we'd get verification from medical certification or whatnot. If it's a letter of resignation, because someone is leaving office for whatever particular reason they're moving, then that's quite obvious. If somebody is elected to a higher office, that's decided for us because they take office at essentially midnight of the night of the general election. So, I think that's fine. I don't think that requires any additional clarification. As far as the next regular meeting date, all of our meetings that we call are subject to Chapter 92. We can't do anything outside of that. So, anytime we're required to do something at the next regular meeting date, if it was like, you know, we've already posted the agenda. Even if we posted for some reason, early, we still couldn't add it on because that would be problematic. Then, I would assume that Corporation Counsel would agree that your actual next regular meeting date is what's available to you just by law. It doesn't have to be Page 8 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 so specific to say, the next available agenda. I think that's a little bit too micro to put in the Charter. My point is that, even under the current provisions that are there, which are just what's in Subsection(a) right now without those changes, that's what we have in the Charter now. I can point to Ms. Evan's situation. When this did occur, you know,we have to read it as Chair of the Council at the time, Ms. David,that she referenced; Corporation Counsel Strance, myself. You have to read this and see what are the Council's options? What are the Council's requirements with the language that is already there. There weren't any real concerns with any of those items at that time as far as, you know, requiring clarification on the vacancy or timing elements, as far as that goes. I think we're okay there. MS. KIMBALL: Okay. So, to add another comment on that section, give the reasonable notice. I've always been chided for using words like reasonable,just because they're ambiguous and subjective. So, I think J would not let me get away with that. So, that's another one. Then,you've got a conniving mind, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. But I appreciate—I have an unsettled feeling about this Section (b), (c), and (d) about the prescriptiveness of that and the possibility that the Council would potentially be put in a situation where they couldn't choose the right person, because they were one of five running for office. Everybody knew on the board that that's the right person to fill that seat, whatever the situation would be. The way it's written now, if that scenario arose, we wouldn't have that ability to elect that person. I understand why this is here, because as Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder said, you don't want to give an unfair advantage into a wide-open election to a particular individual. But at the flipside of that is that our hands would be tied to potentially select the person that could be correct. So, I don't have an answer for you on what I'd like to see there instead, but I was a little unsettled by that part. So, I'll just put that out there. I did want to ask the Clerk,just because it was brought up by one of the testimonies, if it were a vacancy that happened a year out, 15-months out, you know, from the next election, what would our capacity be? How much would it cost us to do a special election for a district? MR. HENRICKS: You mean, if this was in the Charter, because we would never do that under the Charter. I don't know. Page 9 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 MS. KIMBALL: Correct. But if the Charter directed us to do a special election for a vacancy. MR. HENRICKS: Depends how you do it because the assumption would be by mail, because we would follow current procedures for any election. For a single Council district, I mean, I could get that back to you. MS. KIMBALL: Okay, I think that would be something we'd all be interested in knowing for the next conversation. You know, I can see for a vacancy that's just a month out, yeah no, why would we do a special election, but if we're talking about something where there's 15 months left in the term or something like that. That'11 be more reasonable. MR. HENRICKS: I think as Ms. Evans brought up. You know, Honolulu does it, but they have four-year terms. Then, it might have something to do with part of the reason why special elections are not included as an option. It could be difficult to ascertain like a time threshold where it's still feasible to conduct a special election. So, like, it might be hard to have different circumstances if a vacancy occurs. I mean there's ways that could be written out that would be plain, simple, understandable, and pragmatic, but factor into that—I don't know if it will factor into costs. But my understanding is that recently the Legislature changed HRS (Hawai`i Revised Statutes), Chapter 11 to provide that special elections to fill vacant Council district seats are by rank choice voting. I don't know what that is, and I don't know how that affects costs, or you know, in the case of Council operations. So, that's also something that would then supersede anything we put into the Charter. MS. KIMBALL: So, looking at the matrix we were provided, Mau`i, which is also a two-year term cycle, has the special elections at 15 months left in the potential term. I'd like to just have a discussion about what the number might be in terms of a cost. MR. HENRICKS: Yeah, that shouldn't be hard to put a fairly, you know, accurate estimate on what the cost will be for that. It's something we can pin down. MS. KIMBALL: I love rank choice voting. I think that's awesome. I hope we do it for all of our elections in the future. Alright, I'll yield Chair. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Ms. Kimball. I see Mr. Inaba's light, but he had an opportunity, so I just want to check in with others who haven't had a chance to speak. Ms. Kagiwada, go ahead. Page 10 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair, and thank you Council Member for bringing this forward. Good discussion. So,the five workdays till notice of Council vote, we already talked about that a little bit. It just seems pretty out of line with what the other counties do currently. I mean, we were double what the other counties were doing, and now we're going to,you know,just a sixth of that. So, it just seems to me like a very big swing. I'm just wondering why not 30 days? Was that because of this particular instance that you experienced, and you're trying to work something that would have worked for that particular experience, or like I said, it seems like a very big jump from what we had. MS. EVANS: May I answer? ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Yeah, to the author. MS. EVANS: Thank you. I think what we're seeing is, it's time for Council to act. That Honolulu is 30; Mau`i, 30; Kaua`i, 30. The action I'm asking for is within five days, you've got to give notice to the Council that there is going to be action to be taken. So really, it's a different—it's kind of—what they're saying is within 30 days you've got to make a decision. I didn't go there. What I said is, within five days you have to let all the Council Members know that we're going to fill a vacancy. Then we want to do it at the next regular meeting. So, you know, it could be. It's different than, I think what the matrix kind of implies. I just think that immediately you need to let your members know there was a vacancy, and we're going to take some action. That was the part that was really important to me because we didn't have that. I think the other thing and I just want to bring this up, the other three counties allow the Mayor to appoint if there is a standoff. We should give the Council Chair that right. So, that's something I think that's a big one that we should talk about. MS. KAGIWADA: For sure, and I wanted to address that in a minute. But so, do we want to perhaps even with this five days' notice of the Council taking action, do we want to also put in there or were you saying, we keep that 60 days until action actually has to be taken or were you going to take that out all together and not have any amount of time when action actually has to be taken? MS. EVANS: Okay, so the way we wrote it now, is within five days, let the other members know there was a vacancy, and that we're going to agendize it at the next regular meeting. What we don't know—I can't tell you when the next regular meeting is going to be. Page 11 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 If it's Chapter 92 or you have to give public notice to the community, it could be, you know, two weeks out or four weeks out. If what Jon said is true, we have to follow Chapter 92 and give notice to the public. We're going to be voting on who's going to replace the vacancy. Am I saying it right, Jon? MR. HENRICKS: So, the way I look at this is, five business days to give notice plus at least seven days for us to post. It's probably about 14 days. So, two weeks is the quickest something could possibly happen, once we're officially aware of a vacancy under Subsection(a). If the timeframe, though, that the vacancy occurs to where there's already been an election, you go straight to Subsection(c). So, there's no Council action, it's just the Charter appoints the successor. So, that's important to remember too. But if we're outside of that timeframe where an election has occurred, then I think the quickest somebody could be appointed by the Council would be probably 14 days. MS. KAGIWADA: So, you don't see that would be like a regular agendized item where it would go to the Committee? MR. HENRICKS: No, because this is clear here that on the next regular meeting date, and that doesn't consider Committees. MS. KAGIWADA: So, only one public hearing and decision made during that public hearing right then and there? MR. HENRICKS: That is currentlyhow the Charter is written to provide that at that next regular meeting opportunity. MS. KAGIWADA: But we currently have the 60 days in there as well? MR. HENRICKS: It starts with 30 for the first part. You're notified of a vacancy. The Council then has 30 days without any discussion of when notice has to be required. But basically, 30 days, at a next regular meeting, which then, as I was talking to J, restricts the Council from calling a special meeting for this purpose. It would have to be done at a regular meeting that has already been scheduled as part of its normal course of business. So, as Ms. Evans said, it's hard to say how much it changes from 30. It would certainly seem that it would reduce it. There might be a scenario where it would be roughly about 30 or just shortened slightly less than that. But probably not more than 30, and probably a little bit less than 30. Even under the scenarios where, you know, you have your five days. You have to consider this too. It says, within five days. Page 12 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 So, let's say the Chair could have put it on the agenda on that first of the five days, and they choose not to. They wait the full five days, which then pushes it out to a whole other meeting set So,there's some discretion there too, which is always generally going to be some discretion unless you write this in a way where you're left with Subsection (c), which is there's no timing elements other than what's already occurred and there's no discretion. Other than that, even under the current provisions or any amended provisions, there's going to be some discretion at play that then creates a variety of potentials for when this is to occur. Then again, as noted here, if at that meeting for some reason the Council can't decide; a tie vote or a vote "no"to all the options. You know, again, you look at this, it doesn't even say how this is supposed to happen. It currently doesn't and it still doesn't. Is it a resolution, is that resolution left blank, and then Council Members come and submit amendments to fill in that name, and then ask the Elections Office, "are these people qualified? Are they registered in the district? Are they eligible?" That's okay, I'm not suggesting that's a problem, but there's work to be done when this occurs and there still will be. But again, if that fails to happen then for whatever reason, if the Council can't come to an agreement as a group, then as currently provided, it falls to the Chair to do. So, with a slightly different time element. Instead of having that 60 days from the vacancy, it'll basically be—which is clear to me, five days from that meeting. You know, you couldn't postpone it. It's not allowed here. It says, they have to take action at that meeting. Those things are not vague to me,personally. And if it doesn't happen at the meeting, then it falls to the Chairperson to make that decision laterally within five days from the adjournment of that meeting. It seems pretty clear to me. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Do you have any background on why we are the only County that has said the Council Chair would act if Council fails to act, whereas all of the other three counties all say Mayor? MR. HENRICKS: No. No clue whatsoever. I'm taking it for granted that's what it says, though. I'm believing you that that's true. MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah, okay. I'm believing this chart. MR. HENRICKS: Okay. I didn't see a chart. MS. KAGIWADA: Oh, you didn't get the chart? Page 13 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 MR. HENRICKS: No. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Well, so just I guess, my thoughts on that are just I feel a little bit like,you know, the Mayor was elected by the entire County and has a little more kind of I guess buy in from a larger population than one Council person that would have say over that. That's just my general first thoughts there. I also am really interested in hearing about what are the possibilities about a special election because I do think that if possible, and especially if there's time, that letting the people decide is the best way to go here. So, those are my comments. Thank you, Chair. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kagiwada. Ms. Kierkiewicz. MR. HENRICKS: Before you proceed, I'm sorry. But with regard to a special election, I'm just going to say right off, before you even look into it, I don't think it would be cost prohibitive. If this is something the Council is interested in, then I would just go ahead and start to look into that and pursue it, because I don't think it—I mean, of course, there's costs. But nothing I've seen have shown me that costs would be a consideration, depending upon and assuming that it would withstand for a certain period of time. I'm sorry for interjecting. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So, I wasn't here when Senator Dru Kanuha was elected to the Senate; was also serving as a Council Member at the time. I think, Council Member Lee Loy, you were on the Council. Could you just share what happened in that situation? ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Similar to Mr. Richards, the seat remained vacant until we moved into the next Council. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: So,the vacant seat was for one month, approximately? ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Yeah, but keep in mind, the vacancy occurs at the beginning of November. We only have one more meeting at the end of November. Then that December meeting is our Sine Die where we actually have no actions or items, it's kind of rare that we have items on that agenda. So, some of the business decisions that would be happening, it's really just that one meeting in November. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you. Thank you for putting this forward. I think what you're trying to solve for Council Member Evans is ensuring that whatever district has a vacancy, whether it is because someone is elected to a higher office; if there is an untimely death, unfortunately; if there is resignation for health or medical reasons, that there is proper representation for that community. Page 14 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 I think we need to have some timing elements in here if it's going to be triggering a special election. Just hearing, you know, Council Member Lee Loy talk about in the situation with Council Member Richards going to the senate, there being one meeting. I think the community is going to be okay with not having representation at one meeting. I don't know, maybe not? There could be a really hot-button issue where all nine votes are very critical, but I want us to think about that a little bit more and just explore depending on how much time is left in office, what that potentially triggers? A couple things, food for thought. Love the idea of special elections; also,just want to share what happens in the event of deaths at State office. I was actually involved in a couple when Senator Gil Kahele and then Representative Clift Tsuji passed. The process of the democratic party is, there is a formal community meeting. Members that are interested in running for office are able to pitch and make their case. Then, office holders of the various districts within the House or Senate district are able to vote and send three names to the Governor. We may want to consider some kind of open forum where individuals that are interested in serving the remainder of the open term are able to pitch themselves to this body. I do not support advocating any of our control over decision making with the legislative body to the Mayor. We should be able to identify the colleague that we want to work with for the rest of the term. So, I know folks think, oh maybe the Mayor? I don't. I want that power to rest with the legislative body. So that's one thing to consider. Then another situation that the Council was involved in, we hired our County auditor. So, we had a very open process where we interviewed the top two candidates after a very, very thorough interview process, which included multiple rounds by an ad hoc committee. The two candidates were brought forward at the Council, we asked them questions, then by resolution we had identified the individual that we wanted to serve in that capacity. So, I'm sharing all of that with you because I think there's really room to play around with what we do. I also wonder if some of these ideas might be appropriate for our Council Rules. Something could happen to any one of us at the moment. So, really, we have no guiding framework other than what's in the Charter. No real specificity on what to do. Council Rules and a bill for ordinance are tools that we have that we can take advantage of right now. With a Charter amendment, we have to wait for the next election, then, we have to make sure that there's a majority of voters that are going to be supporting this idea. So just wanted to throw all of that out there for you to consider. Thank you, I yield. Page 15 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Ms. Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Just briefly, I guess, I am also a little bit worried on the process. I mean, I can see wanting to shorten it up, but also, I worry that if it's so short, we won't have the opportunity to really get the best person from the community. Especially if it's a traumatic situation where we lose someone, it's probably going to take a little bit more time to really, you know, find the best person. Also,in some ways, like you were saying, Council Member Kierkiewicz, having it not like who we know particularly, but something a little bit more democratic, I guess, as a process. So, I think possibly giving ourselves a little more time might be better. I also am very enthusiastic about the special election possibility because that is the most democratic way to go about it. But of course, it needs to be a good chunk of time left, either the 12 or the 15-month kind of a thing, right? So, those are my thoughts. Thank you very much for bringing it forward so that we could think it through. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Galimba. I'm going to go back to Mr. Inaba because he remembered. MR. INABA: Thank you. I think just in re-reading this, I don't know that I'm comfortable with Sections (b) and(d), in general. I think the intent and the reason for this bill coming forward, especially in what you experienced last year is addressed in(c) and what your amendment is going to do. But I think I like (a)'s timing as it stands. Perhaps just clarifying exactly what the mechanism is, as pointed out by the Clerk. Whether it's a communication or what are we voting on? Again, maybe those that specificity could live with our Council Rules, but moving the timing is a little worrisome to me. If the Council—also to address a brought p oint bupbyMr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, g I thought about a su erma'orit as well. But I feel like that would likelyresolve g p J Y in the Chair being able to choose, because I don't think that six of the remaining eight—I'm not sure if we'd be able to get that, but with five members of the Council. It's just a standard vote, five of the eight remaining. So, I myself would be comfortable keeping it as it is,just a simple majority. Thank you. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Mr. Inaba. Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Page 16 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. You know, if you're the last one left in a general election. Like your situation, and I don't want to point you out, but this is your bill, and I'm thinking about your situation when you came in after Mr. Richards. In that case, you won the general. It's all done, no? MS. EVANS: I won it in the primary. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: You won it in the primary. Was there anybody in the general? MS. EVANS: No, because I won. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so in that case, yeah done. It's done, you know. That makes sense, put you in the position because you're the only one to fill it. But in the case of, I think someone conniving—I wouldn't say conniving, but I would also say smart and politically motivated. Okay, maybe those could be cross terms. In a strategic way, you could short-circuit the system and put somebody in that really wasn't serving the district's needs but was serving a political majority's needs. That's about as simple as I can put that. So, in your case, yes. I would support you jumping on to the Council because there's been an election process. Some sort of democratic process was had to put you in the position. But in the case of somebody applied and he was the only guy and he's qualified as a candidate, he's in, that's it. I don't like that. That doesn't work for me because that can short-circuit what I think we're trying to protect here. So, that really does to me, take out I think, Section(d). I think there could be some revisions to Section(b) as well. As far as the Council effective time, I like that. You're saying speed it up, make it happen, but I'm really listening to my other colleagues, and there's got to be some kind of timeframe, because if it's two months away, or if we're at the end of our term and you have one meeting. I mean, I even talked to Mr. Henricks about this, you know, what's involved to have a special election or to bring somebody in the last two months of a term when we only have one meeting to fill that position. Yes, we want someone in the position for the district, so they're being voted for and their needs are being met. But if there's just a traumatic amount of paperwork and crap involved to get that person in and you're one meeting away. I don't know, I would want to weigh what it's going to take to do that and bring in at the right time. This happens so occasionally, and we're kind of prepping for something that happens here and there. That's it, and I'm not really asking a question, I'm just kind of making a statement, yeah. Thank you, I yield. Page 17 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Mr. Yoshimoto, I feel like you want to add to this conversation. MR. YOSHIMOTO: I had a passing thought. I'm just trying to figure out how to characterize, right? This is thinking outside the box, because if we want to align our start date with the State, why don't we just change the Charter to do that? So, rather than start in December, start when the State starts, right? And align it that way as far as the effective date. So, there would be no crossover in November, right? That way, that would address your situation. The vacancy in office, as currently worded, will still remain in place. Unless of course, the Council Members want to change that for other reasons, for special elections reasons and stuff like that. Just outside the box,just an idea. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Mr. Yoshimoto. Seeing no more lights, I want to offer some comments. It's my hope that Ms. Evans will take a lot of the feedback, and we can get to a place you have something to work with, then maybe postpone or pull it back. It's your decision. I have been around this Council for a very, very long time. Not only sitting here, but prior to that. To some of my colleagues' points, there was a time we had a vacancy and Eddie Alonzo came in at the appointment of the Chair. Very different times. It was at-large districts, but that was a business decision made by the majority to maintain that majority to some of my colleagues' points. We're solvingfor a situation when a Council Member seeks higher office, and g my concern is, in your case Ms. Evans, you absolutely won in the primary because we run nonpartisan races. Had Mr. Richards lost, he would continue to sit in his seat for the remainder of that term. So, in this situation, it's only effective when that Council Member gets that vote because he's in a partisan race, he has to go to the General. One thing that I really thought would be brought up that hasn't, we had a colleague who refused to legislate, and she was not allowed to sit on the dais but remained in that seat. It was at that time where I had large concerns that we had a district going unrepresented for many, many months. So, trying to focus on this, but I think we're trying to solve for certain things. I've heard my colleagues loud and clear. And I actually did broach the subject with then Election Administrator Pat Nakamoto about what it would take to run a special election for just a small district; 60-90 days, because it's a very limited amount of mailing, right? I think Council Members are at 10,000 or 12,000 whatever the number is. Page 18 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 Then to my colleague, Ms. Kierkiewicz's point about a vacancy at the State level,which we saw this last Legislative session create this huge trickle effect from Council Members going up, and then other people needing to be appointed in. I shared all of that because those are all the many, many examples that I think we're trying to solve for. Ms. Evans, you've heard a lot of feedback. Some of this could be addressed within the Rules. There might be some nuances within the Charter. Sounds like everybody just wants to know, you know, what it would take to run a special election. I'm exactly on the same page with all my other colleagues. So those are my thoughts. We have Bill 49. I know you have an amendment. It's really entirely up to you what you would like to do. I would share that because this is a Charter amendment, I would urge getting it right at the Committee level, because a Charter amendment requires three readings at the Council. So, you let me know how you want to handle the bill; the amendment we have in our folder. Go ahead, Ms. Evans. MS. EVANS: Thank you. Well, first of all, I'm so pleased that we had this discussion. I guess my motivation is, it just breaks my heart when votes are made and the public are not represented. So, I'm pretty passionate that,you know, when I looked at the current Charter and realized it needed to be updated; I don't have the right answer to that yet, but I love the input. I want to bring it back and rewrite it. I'd like to, I don't know what do I call it, postpone and bring it back, do I withdraw it then bring back another one? I don't know the correct way. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Sure. If you think you can continue to tinker with this, with the title, then it would be postponed to various dates down the road. If you're going to divorce some language and put some of it in our Rules; keep others in the Charter. I mean, again,you heard comments that this would have to get on a ballot which is 24, and then be voted on by the public, which we love that input. But some of this wouldn't become effective until after that election cycle. So, it really is entirely up to you. MS. EVANS: I would like to postpone it and come back with an amendment to Bill 49. Motion to Postpone: Ms. Evans moved to postpone Bill 49 to June 20, 2023. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. Page 19 GOEAC-10 June 6,2023 Vote on Motion to Ms. Evans moved to postpone Bill 49 to June 20, 2023. Postpone: Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the following (Approved) voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas, and Acting Chair Lee Loy—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. ADJOURN- There beingno further business, at 3:50 p.m., Ms. Kimball moved to adjourn the J MENT: meeting. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas, and Acting Chair Lee Loy—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Meeting is adjourned at 3:50 p.m. Approved: q 7, a.3 Ms. Cindy E ns, Chair (Date) Government Operations and External Affairs Committee CE/dt Page 20