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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN CRCOC 2023/06/06 (2022-2024) it Committee on Communications, Reports, and Council Oversight 8th Session Hawai`i County Building 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawai`i June 6, 2023 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Communications, Reports, and ORDER: Council Oversight was called to order at 1:00 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona,by Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair. ROLL.CALL: Present: Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Vice Chair Ms. Cindy Evans, Member Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member(came in later) Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.) CHR. VILLEGAS: I'd just like to go ahead and take things out of order today, if we could,Mr. Clerk. And can we startwith Communication 302, today. Change Order r As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the.Council Members, of Business: the following items were taken out of order: Comm. 302: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION BY MOHANNAD M. MOHANNA, PRESIDENT OF HIGHRIDGE COSTA DEVELOPMENT, REGARDING AFFORDABLE RENTAL HOUSING From Council Member Michelle Galimba dated May 4, 2023. Motion to Close File: Ms. Galimba moved to close file on Comm. 302. Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada. IT v l' CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 CHR. VILLEGAS: And with that I'll go ahead and pass it to you,. Council Member Galimba if you'd like to introduce your presenters. MS. GALIMBA: Yes, thank you, Chair Villegas. Yes, we have Mr. Mo Mohanna here. He's the president of Highridge Costa, as well as other's who are from his team and from Parker Ranch who will be doing a project up in Waimea. Also, online we have David Oi from the Hawai`i Housing Finance Corporation. And, you know, I got the opportunity to talk with Mr. Mohanna, and it was like drinking from a firehose, it was terrific,just so much information. And he was kind enough to offer to come and present to us as a body, and it's sort of in context of the affordable housing crisis in our County and State. Earlier Council Member Lee Loy and I were talking about how we really need to create a ladder of housing so that everyone will have access. There is a desire to build equity in housing for people,but not everyone starts at a place where they would want to buy a house. So affordable housing is really critical, especially for younger people. And I will leave the rest to you, Mr. Mohanna. (Note: At this time President of Highridge Costa Mohannad Mohanna came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. MOHANNA: Madam Chair, City Council Members, we are actually honored and humbled by the opportunity to come before you to talk about affordable housing, which is not only our business but our passion. I have with me Mr. David Oi from HHFDC, Hawai`i Housing Finance and Development Corporation,he's the Finance Manager. He provided some of the information on the slides we're going to share you. First of all, Igo by the name of Mo Mohanna. Moi if you'd like to wish to get the correct spelling, and Mohanna like ohana. So that should give you all the spelling all together. We obviously work closely with David and his team, and they do a great job,but the key to start any affordable housing at the end of the day, and that's why I wanted David Oi to join from HHFDC (Hawai`i Housing Finance and Development Corporation). Affordable housing is a public private partnership, that's really the bottom line. No private developer can do it on their own, and no state agency or county agency for that matter can do it on their own. So it starts from the fundamental basis that it's a public private partnership. And truly in the case of the county it's a triparty, it is a county, state, federal, we're going to go for now, and private. And we'll go through that, and we'll try to talk story and explain why. And Council Member Galimba thank you for listening in and I meant to try to explain things, but I think it is incumbent upon us as housing affordable developers, this is our business and what we do, and even the world we live in. I've been doing housing for over 40; affordable housing for nearly 30. I still learn, and there's still much for me to learn. Page 2 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 So I think it's important to work with both County and State officials, to explain the challenges that we have. It's unfair to bring someone that's from outside the industry and have them make big picture decisions without taking the time to explain why, and what are the challenges, and why do we show up sometimes and say we have to have this approval on such and such date or we need to have certain waivers, and so on and so forth. So it is incumbent upon us, so I'm humbled and honored by the opportunity to be invited here. The key thing that I want to say, I will comeback as many times as you want. This is not about a one-time session because there are many aspects and the objective today is to start a dialog, start an interest, make ourselves available. And David is a very knowledgeable person at HHFDC, and I'm volunteering him that he will make himself available as well. Sorry David. So, I'm going to go with a kind of brief presentation to give a little bit of background, talk story about who we are. (Note: At this time, Mr. Mohanna and Mr. Oi provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee.. For viewing of the presentation, see the DVD copy of the proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or online at http://hawaiicounty.granicus.com. A copy of the presentation is made part of the record, see Comm. 302.1.) MR. MOHANNA: Yes, Ma'am. MS. EVANS: Just a quick question about the capital stacking. Do we work with our local banks to get loans or do we go to the mainland. I mean do we shop for many on the mainland in that capital stack that you keep talking about. I'm just kind of wondering, there must be some bank loans thrown in this too. MR. MOHANNA: Yes. The next screen we'll go into that, definitely conventional financing. That is based on the net operating income. So you took your rents, you took your operating expenses, you're ending up with a net operating income. You will get conventional financing in both models, and then if it's not enough to cover total project cost then it's supplemented by other sources. I actually have a numerical example on the next slide for a four percent and a nine(percent). But very good question, thank you. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Just quicklyfor the record, I'd like to acknowledge that Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder has joined us. (Note: At this time, Mr. Mohanna provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the presentation, see the DVD copy of the proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or online at http://hawaiicounty.granicus.com. A copy of the presentation is made part of the record, see Comm. 302.1.) Page 3 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 MR. MOHANNA: I'm going to pause there. I believe if I'm correct, the next slide is Davids'.. So, any questions? CHR. VILLEGAS: Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thanks Chair. I like that Mohanna, I like that, thanks. It's kind of going to be a very long question, but I think you're going to understand it, because we're really trying to crack the nut on housing. This LIHTC Low-Income Housing Tax Credit) funding, really is based on median income. But we know that the biggest challenge Hawai`i County has is our area median income it's anywhere from $20 to $25,000 lower than Maui County, and Honolulu. And so when we're trying to crack this housing nut, whereas everybody's kind of at the start line, Hawai`i County is $25, $30,000 back. And so to your point, because I heard you say how do we get the funding to Hawai`i County, and I know we just had a census. I still understand Hawai`i County to still be $25 to $30,000,behind the start line of everybody else. So how do we crack that nut Mo, so that we can get the LIHTC funding? We can braid all these funds together,but we've got to acknowledge that Hawai`i County is not even on the start line compared to other counties. Help me answer that. MR. MOHANNA: Very, very good question. I will try. So looking at any project we do, and starting with the restriction that the area median income rents are dictated. In this case you're right, they're slightly behind. Maui is also behind Oahu, right. So, the reason you've heard me focus on don't just solve the sources of funding,but also solve the cost. So examples are and you have a very, very, smart housing team here on island, we met with them earlier. One of them, I'm just going to give examples, but I'm going to give practical examples, so we can start to see a pathway. Remove the cost of land, so they're county owned property. So what did I do for my performer when I'm competing, I removed the cost of land. Two, there are funds available at State level and at County level that we bring in, remove infrastructure cost to adjust and bring yourself up to the start line as you mentioned. It doesn't have to be just finding more money, but it has to be reducing cost. I use another example, not only from State owned property or County owned property, and you don't have to sell it can be long-term land leases,right. So to parker ranchers' credit when they're looking at how do we helpand participate in this affordable housing crisis, when they reach to us, and we're working with them, they said we will provide. It's called a soft ground lease payment, so you're not even making any hard payments,but.they're participating in the cash, so they're really putting up the land. So we need to start looking at that as one solution. Second solution, infrastructure. Third solution is any fee waivers that can be done Page 4 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 again, reduce project cost. And last solution which we discussed today, when we met with your housing team,because the rents are lower it's not only the competitive issue. When the rents are here, operating expenses are fairly similar on the product type across most islands. So what happens is there's these concerns of the cost crossing over mathematically. And so one potential solution we're evaluating, I think you've seen in many of the developments that you do here, is say about 25 percent of the units are based on project-based vouchers, because project-based vouchers allow you to still comply with the 60 percent AMI (Area Median Income) required at the Federal and State level. But the reality, the income it produces to the property, exceeds the 60 percent, and pushes that up. So the answer is there are solutions, can we make every single project work, I wish. The best thing when they tell me what do I do every day, I kiss 50 frogs and hope I'll find one that works, you know,but that's kind of what you do, is you have to look at these examples. And so, in working as a team and identifying certain sights, and identifying how can we bring these—size table. Last but not least, on cost. We mentioned tangible items such as land, such as few waivers, such as design guidelines, on and on; those are tangible. Let's talk about the intangible that's breaking projects right now across the nation. The intangible is time. So we receive an allocation, and actually we need to go through that timeline. Hawai`i State has limited—as you can see David, on the next slide, is going to show you, so there's one round a year. That round to apply for nine percent.or four percent is in February, and there is a minimum threshold requirement of many others. But a very important one so that you can put an application, so David is willing to pick it up and look at it, and that is you have to have all your discretionary entitlements in place to a 1H or the like. If you miss your February deadline, because we got an approval in March, and you say Mo, when are you going to start? There's one round, there's one source. I have to wait to February of the next calendar year, is the problem solved, no,. because there is a timeline to David. In David's defense, they have to review this over subscription stack of applications they have to get to make sure they meet the threshold, score them, make sure they look at them very carefully, and do what they do; a very good job at doing that to make sure they're safeguarding the state's scarce resources. We won't know until July or August if we have an allocation. And again, we'll see the ratios maybe close to every four applications submitted, maybe one gets it. So now you've waited, March you've missed your date, you've waited until February of the next calendar year,and there are no other options. And then you have to wait until July to know if you've received an allocation, because what if you didn't. And there are applications we put, that we didn't. Are you going to maintain sidecontrol, are your approvals going to expire, because if your approvals expire you can't apply? But what happened during that period of time Page 5 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 aside of those tangible ones, interest rates went up. I didn't add a single cost to the project, but my permanent financing dropped therefore I have a gap. Construction costs went up. And one factor that not being discussed right now but it's a critical factor that's hurting, insurance rates. Not during construction, but as a line item in the operating expense, it went up by 40 percent. So a project that looked feasible yesterday, we were chasingthis interest rates, and construction costs, andinsurance trying to find solutions. Going back to certain cities and counties in different states. And it's like, okay Mo are you done? I'm like, I've been done, but the interest rate market isn't, the insurance market isn't, so time is critical. So not only do we want to find those solutions, what is the quickest execution from point A to point B? Because when you receive an allocation that we mentioned earlier in July, June, or August of that particular year, only then do you treat a kick off working drawing. It's like, why don't you kick off? What is kick off working drawing? So we went to Planning, you guys.liked what we said, and I'm being facetious. You like the colors. we like material; fantastic. But we didn't finish up mechanical, and electrical, and structural, that's your detailed work and drawings. So to kick those off, if you kick them off sooner without knowing if you have an approval,what if you never get an approval. What if the landowner doesn't give you an extension, what if the building code changes. So typically, an efficient way to really have a good cause, start when you know you have an allocation. So here comes the question that you all know, how long does it take to prepare the plans? I can tell you eight to nine months, depending on the complexity, maybe seven. How long does it take to get a building permit,how many changes am I going to go through and plan check that things are added at conditions to the building permit that increase the cost? But the time that it took to get the building permit. So now we're saying we looked at a project, we had to get it entitled, we entitled it. We submitted in February, butwe can't touch it until July to have an allocation. We start in July, we kick off working drawing, there's a seven-to- eight-month process, and then I have an unknown answer to when I'm going to get a building permit. And HHFDC is saying don't come to me and tell me to close on this transaction until I hope you know you have a building permit in hand. Ideally make sure have a good date,because otherwise we start talking to lender and investor, and they give us their pricing and everything else. And I go back for my loan; awe, its next month, it's the month after, and interest rates and stuff and even the tax credit investor comes. We were thinking of closing this into the fund for tax credit this year,but we're closing it the next year. So I may have to readjust my pricing. So, to your point the intangible is time. MS. LEE LOY: And you touched on it, and this dais knows we've worked very hard on our construction codes including our building permit process. And there's a pathway related to plan approval, right, where you could actually take the models put it in. But I'm wondering, and just a bigger school of thought, is if there's been any approach at the State Building Code, Council level or at our Page 6 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 Federal level to take our construction codes, specifically around housing and give them a longer runway because we know that every three years, they update all of our construction codes. I'm sure everybody's struggling with this. Not only the State of Hawai`i, but every single state across the U.S. Has there been any conversation about allowing construction codes to have a life span longer if there is de-minimis or modest edits as they go through their three- year cycle. And I'm just putting it out there because yes, time is money in this situation, we know the hard cost with infrastructure. Some of those things—this revolving clock that happens with HUD (United States Housing and Urban Development) and the LIHTC money. But I was just wondering if there was any thought given to other approaches, like lengthening the runway of the use of our codes. MR. MOHANNA: That's an excellent question, and I can tell you it's above my paygrade. But there are definitely a lot of things happening at the Federal level. I can't speak to that one directly, I have to get back to you to tell you what's happening. But a very simple example of the federal level we talked about the nine percent, they are trying to increase the percentage of population of the amounts received. On the four percent credit tax exempt bonds there's an interesting task, we're going a little bit into the weeds, so we'll try to pull back. You need to finance 50 percent of the total eligible cost using tax exempt bonds in order to qualify, it's a 50 percent test which used to be higher, but that dictates how much of your money at the federal level, I mean something I can speak to verses codes. We've been campaigning for years, and years, and years, hopefully we'll get. there. We're hoping that rate will drop to 25 percent. So without actually increasing the amount of bonds per capita that are coming to the State, you've doubled them automatically to do so. Now one would think what's the harm, what's the harm is your using much more four percent federal credits that does affect the budget. But to give you examples of things that we're at the federal level that have changed, and we've thought they'd never happened. So we look at this four percent number and we look at this nine percent number. These numbers were not fixed, they were floating. Four percent dropped close to three percent, the nine dropped. So as were doing nothing just like interest are floating, the amount that was in the mathematic equation to allocate the number of credits you're receiving just by sitting there, nothing changes. Just like interest rates takes money away, this one took tax credit away. So after years and years of campaigning we got the nine percent fixed. It's a nine percent calculation, it went away from floating. For some reason I don't know why, it took us several years after that to convince them can we fix the four ' absolutelythere are things that can be done at percent too. So you're right, that Y the federal level. And it takes a village to come up with different ideas, so your question is a very good question I unfortunately don't have an answer for it, but Page 7 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 there are things happening at the federal level that we can do a separate update for. There would be someone else within our company that does the DC, but we can definitely provide an update to the Council here. What is happening at the federal level, what things—because I know certain council's do attend and do certain conferences. By all means we should share that with you, because if at least a phone call to your representative when these bills are being discussed to say, hey this is not an add on. This has to do with people's lives with a right to have a home. Not only the dignity of having a home,but the dignity of being able to pay for it by yourself, to afford it without needing any housing subsidy of any sort. We forget how important that is, even as seniors that they have a place,that they don't need help from anyone to pay for their own rent. Not only to have a place, but to be able to afford it, we forget that important dignity factor in everything that we do. I commend your question, and there's many I'm sure others, but there are stuff at the federal level that we should look at. MS. LEE LOY: Maybe we could take this question offline. I know my colleagues want to ask questions. All of this is great. I'm looking to crack the nut with Department of Hawaiian Homelands (DHHL), and they just got $600 million. dollars to develop housing. I know personally because I live homestead. A lot of the lenders don't lend on DHHL. Like I shared, maybe we can take that offline, because they need to encumber$600 million by June 2024. I'm looking at tools to help them,because when we talk about infrastructure cost, that's something the department and the agency can handle by themselves. We got to make sure our homesteaders can qualify for whatever mortgage that they have to pay,but in addition to that, that we're providing the housing product types; the suite of options whether it's studio, multifamily, multigenerational that fits their needs. MR. MOHANNA: I will say one thing, I'll give a shoutout to Mr. Callie Watson because I will tell you when you're saying the same things, he repeated them across the same spectrum. He is the man with the right passion in his heart that wants to do good for Hawai`i and Native Hawaiians, and it's interesting when you're taking about the spectrum. I'm not sure if you said it to him or if he said it to you,but he said it to me. And so, I think we have the right the people, in the right places with the right heart. You know, I'm not meaning to compliment but one of the right people with the right heart is David Oi, who's on the line of how hard they work, they want to serve, and they want to find solutions. So definitely, DHHL is part of the solution they just came up as you know, with an RFP (Request for Proposal) toward the ambition. And Mr. Callie Watson's heart is to be commended. And again, it takes a village we have to work with him, he has to work with us, you have to work with him and us. But all these are solutions at hand. And I think not the wave but the tidal wave right now in the State of Hawai`i and on every County level the attention to affordable housing is so good. The reason I'm here is because good hearted people like you are saying what can we do, how can we help, and I think that's the first position for offices. Instead of Page 8 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 a developer comes in and oh my god. What time is it? I want to make sure we have time for poor David to get a chance to speak here. But when we talk about real quick developers and this concept of developers, I just want to say two things about developers. Number one is the fee that we're allowed to make is dictated and restricted by the Federal Government and has to be complied with by the State of Hawai`i. That's number one. Number two when do we make money, when do we get that fee, because that's the only money we make? You work to get an out and we kind of went through a quick history, but we work to get it tied up or submit for an RFP to get a piece of property. We work on getting it entitled, we submit it to HHFDC, we wait until we get an allocation, you know, process building permits, close on construction law. The State of Hawai`i currently allows us after we close on construction law three to four years if we're lucky, $500,000. Your second $500,000, is upon construction completion. You get your fee upon permanent loan conversion, meaning the lease up is done it's been stabilized, and the permanent financing are there. So when I'm sitting in front of you, I'm not pushing for an approval or get into HHFDC or get an allocation, I need to get these leased up and done before we see any true money. So I mentioned that when we sit and I sit with many. Councils, and we're working with many Councils. I'm glad people are getting this attention. I want to make sure that these approvals are tied and put your feet to the fire to get started. I mean, we're not doing it for charity, we're a for profit and affordable housing developer. The only time we get paid is not at construction, not at completion, it's when it's locked and done and permanent financing. And it's 95 percent plus occupied. So there is every incentive and that's an important thing in order to help you be comfortable enough to know that our interest are aligned. We don't make money for an allocation; we.don't make when we close construction or complete construction. We only see it when every deserving resident has moved into a home they deserve. Only then, do we get truly paid. So our interests to get this done, to get these people into their homes is aligned. I'll get off my soap box so Mr. Oi can start. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. You know, finally developer, is a really dirty word around here. And we've actually coined the phrase housing contributors. So when you approach us, it's not development it's housing contributions. And I would love to take this conversation offline, about Hawaiian Homes and getting our beneficiaries ready for some of that housing opportunities. MR. MOHANNA: It's our pleasure, I mean we're here because we believe in what we do. And it's a passion for what we do. So that someone someday, when we walk the unit and that's what really is our payment; when they come and say thank you. And I can share stories with you, and I have to share one. So we're in front of a Council in another state, where we were bombarded because of those people that are going to move there. The Council Members majority was in that direction. Page 9 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 The mayor very respective lady finally said, I'm going to tell you a story of a woman who lost her home, was nearly homeless, was a single mom. Fortunately walked up the street because her car was repoed and was able to get into one of those low-income housing homes, was able to rebuild her life, take care of her daughter. That lady today is your Mayor, remember that. David, all you. (Note: At this time Hawai`i Housing Finance and Development Corporation Finance Manager David Oi came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. OI: Thank you, Mo. Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair. And thank you Council Member Galimba for the opportunity to speak to you folks. And thank you, Mo, for bringing me on this presentation, and your kind words about the agency as well. I did want to mention that I had the privilege of living in Hilo for a number of years, earlier in my working careers. So I do hold the Big Island dear to my heart, so I really truly appreciate the opportunity to be in front of you folks today virtually. (Note: At this time, Mr. Oi provided a PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing of the presentation, see the DVD copy of the proceedings on file in the Clerk's Office, or online at http://hawaiicounty.granicus.com. A copy of the presentation is made part of the record, see Comm. 302.1.) . MR. OI: Are there any questions or anything I can answer about that? CHR. VILLEGAS: Council Member Evans. MS. EVANS: Thank you. You made a statement about the amount of funding equates to our population. Does it also equate to the senses of how many people are at different income levels because it seems like our Island does have quite a lot of percentage at the lower end income, and I'm wondering if we get more because of that? MR. 01: That's a fantastic question. Council Member, thank you for that question. It's based strictly on population. It does not account for any particular AMI, however, the HUD limits that determine the AMI thresholds are adjusted for Hawai`i due to the cost living. So in high cost of living areas, the Federal Government will adjust up its income levels in order to account for the higher cost of living. But the LIHTC allocations are based strictly on population numbers. MS. EVANS: Has your office had any discussion with our congressional delegation? I'm kind of curious where they might have weighed in on this in the last year or two. Page 10 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 MR. 01: The only communication I've had directly from my office since I've been here, and I've only been here a little over a year with the recent legislation that Mo mentioned about increasing the LIHTC award amount per state, and also reducing that 50 percent test threshold. We have sent communication to the Governor's Office to reach out to the congressional delegation in Washington. As well as we have sent our own communication to our delegates as well in Washington, to engage them and hopefully push this, have them support this legislation. MR. MOHANNA: I am not aware of the federal level of any discussion to do a weighing,like a weighted average that skews towards, you know, lower income levels, poverty levels within the state. It's been strictly population increases. We've been working very hard at the federal level to increase the percentage that they're allocating for these populations so that it enhances it. The nine percent, just because it does tap into the Federal budget of how many large banks won't pay taxes basically. So the four percent program, somebody is going to hear me and not give me a loan next time. But the key driver here like solutions; like dropping the 50 percent test on the tax-exempt bonds down to 25 percent, which automatically doubles the amount of tax-exempt bonds available, and couples it with four percent credits. Seems to be solutions that they're listening to us more on, but I have to say, yours is a very good idea. So I will check with our federal lobbyist and consultants to see if that topic, the way you phrased it, has been discussed and I can let you know. MS. EVANS: You know, if the interest rates even go up a half percent or a percent, would you shrink your project? Let's say you're looking at 120 units, would you shrink to 110? I mean, is that the net affect we're going to see? MR. MOHANNA: No, that won't solve your problem. And there's multiple factors, some of them are more academic constraints. So, you get an approval from Council and it's for a specific number of units, number of parking, specific projects, which you have to adhere to. Then I go David and say, hey, I'm going to give you one of these applications. Hopefully I end up with one of the allocations, and they approve us, and they allocate based on the approval, number of units and everything. If I come at construction loan closing and I decided to change it, then I've lost my entitlement, and I've lost my allocation. But let's assume I can keep my allocation and I can keep my entitlement, that the system is somehow flexible enough that my building permits can be adjusted, I mean you realize it's near impossible. But for mathematical purposes, the answer is no, because what I did is also drop my income. So it's not just I dropped, I shaved the cost of 10 units, but I lost income coming in from 10 units, which will mean it becomes kind of an ongoing spiral. I drop units, I drop income. I drop income, I lose more. So there is what we call a sweet spot, so it's not necessarily can I drop it. Page 11 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 So for example if there's additional funding, why don't I go do 200 units. There's a number between what fees you get, what loans you can get, what RHRF (Rental Housing Revolving Fun). So you'll find a lot of these projects tend to be in a certain hundred, like the 100, 150 is more common. And if you start dropping below a certain unit count, let me take in a more extreme example. You're going to see more units at 60 units particularly in the bond transaction. I have to have an on sight resident manager. An on sight resident manager and a maintenance person that I have to pay market rate expenses, is the same cost on 60 unit as it is on 120 units. So there are economies of scale here, that help you to have a certain number of units. In addition when I buy a piece of property, that same piece of property if it was locked in a fixed price, and I took it and dropped units from 110 to 120, I actually increased the cost per unit on land basis. My infrastructure that's fixed that I have to do for 120 or 110, I divided that by 110. So I mean these are great ideas,but unfortunately every little connection, assuming I can administratively change them at will, causes an effect that doesn't work. So these programs when we come in with a certain number of units, that has to do with how many we can get allocated, how does it work, where is it feasible, and then we drive down to that number. So it's not just a matter of how much more can I get to the site. So, good questions,but I think it's those kinds of questions that may trigger an idea we didn't think of. Thank you. MS. EVANS: Thank you. Last question is it sounded like maybe you can only award six out of maybe 31 applications. Do you try to spread it around the state, or is that six that can go anywhere in the state? MR. OI: That included it is six that could.go anywhere in the state. Because we just want to award the projects that are going to be the best use of the state's money, most efficient, and the most ready. So we just award the most worthy projects. I can say though however that in the past few years, even before I came, the amount that was awarded to each of the counties was on par with the volume of applications we get. So we do have most of the applications come in for City and County of Honolulu, so they get a few more projects. But we have consistently in the past, last year, we awarded 3 projects in total over the calendar year in the County of Hawai`i. We award on all islands and it's just the way it's been working out, because every project that we've awarded is the most worthy,. so we don't have to set threshold for each island. It just fortunately does work out that we can award each island. But however, you know, maybe getting a little too much into detail we do try to look at projects on each island, to make sure that everybody is getting a project awarded. But fortunately, the applications that come in have worked out that way. But there is no set threshold by Statute or Admin Rule that says we have to award x number of projects on each island every year. MR. MOHANNA: If I may add. That's why when I first started saying this is a partnership. We jointly as a team when we—any affordable housing sits here Page 12 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 before you. There coming to say, hey, are we going to team up to compete to get these guys resources, and that's the bottom line. And if both parties are not committed and believe in each other, and have a good trust relationship to work closely to submit a competitive application with the many factors we we described including what your current housing authority here has sources like they have several, if you go on their site. We've met with them today, of additional sources that we can apply for which reduces our ask from HHFDC, which makes us more competitive at the HHFDC. So it's really that collaborative team effort public, private partnership that has to be focused on. I would say this; I would say okay you meet all the planning requirements on the design guidelines and all of the above, Mr. Developer. How many times have you asked the developer, show me your scoring sheet, and show us how we can helpyou score better at HHFDC level. That's a question that's never asked. You got the zoning, you got the density, I made sure my traffic—all of these are important, but the question that's not asked is we make certain decision and ask of certain directions. Let's put HHFDC score sheet on the right-hand side,let's make sure every decision we're making maximizes that number. Let's make sure we understand when we make a decision; some we have to make they're important, they're the right decision to make for the design. What effect did it have there, and maybe that's a worthwhile effect and sometimes it is. But I've never seen council come and say, hey, I'm competing show me my score. Am I rendering this project, it's not competitive. Okay let's stop. Do we want the housing, of course we want the affordable housing we all want it, but if we're rendering it noncompetitive, let alone infeasible. Let's say it's feasible, right, but if that score keeps dropping and the scores change, because they're all relative of a project that scores this year may not score enough to get an allocation because they score what's in the pot. So you're going into a certain degree not totally blind, but blind to some extent because I don't know how competitive everybody's going to pear off. Can you imagine if both sides sitting here are sitting and saying not only how do we approve it,but how do we make it score better. That's the key, no one asks that question. Today if we all want to approve them, you're doing everything you can to approve them, but how do they compete within the county and how do they compete within the state. A question that is not asked anywhere. And David just told you they're all worthy, they want to grant them, there is no preference. The ratios are working that you get some, but at the end of the day is which one competes. So where is that in the evaluation of a decision being made, where is that in the evaluation of a condition being placed. Fine, we placed the conditions that we wanted I just walked away with a project that doesn't score. Nobody won, it defectively says nope not intentionally, but effectively says nope, this project is not moving forward. That's not what it's about, you don't want to put your time, staff doesn't want to put in their time. We Page 13 CRCOC-8 . June 6,2023 don't want to put our time unless we're aligned. And that is a significant component missing, and I'm not just saying State of Hawaii or County of Hawai`i, I'm saying I've never been to a City Council that somebody asked me pull out your scoring, well one city, one state, actually I have to take that back. Never say never. Put that sheet, let's take a look together so it's a joint decision. So a friendly recommendation I would say. That's a good way to kind of collaborate and help you understand the effects and go from there. Just some ideas. CHAIR VILLEGAS: Thank you. Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you so much Chair. Thank you, Mo, and David for this really excellent presentation. When I sit through presentations like this, I'm always reminded of the complexities of actually building housing, right. You have all these concepts, and you have all these great ideas, but building those capital stacks are really an art form. And so I just commend all the work that's happening. I just have a few questions. The first are a couple for David. I was curious in your qualified allocation plan. If when you are evaluating the merits of a project, you talked about readiness and what not, but do also take a look at the location in terms of high opportunity neighborhoods? Because we often talk about cost of land, and cost of infrastructure,but just want to make sure that we are putting housing where jobs, schools, other critical resources are to support high quality of life. MR. OI: Thank you, Council Member, for that question. Yes, we definitely have that in our scoring, the location of the project. Not only in relation to where the opportunity is,but also its proximity to public transportation and available transportation. We want to put housing in areas where, you know, it would be easy for people who are on a limited income to access publicly available transportation to get to work, to get resources around them schools, shopping opportunities, everything. So we do take those goals and amenities the location into our scoring, and it is part of our criteria. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I know that there's a lot of emphasis on having to build additional housing to meet current and future needs,but can LIHTC monies be applied to projects that want to maintain current housing stock. We have a lot of housing that might need to be revitalized or rehabilitated, and so would any of that LIHTC money qualify for projects like that? MR. OI: Yeah. So we do get applications not only for new construction in the round, we also receive applications for projects that we call acquisition and rehab. Those are for projects for existing building that developers will like to use lie tech resources to require, extend the affordability, or reup the affordability, and rehabilitate the project, and renovate it. So those application acquisition rehab projects can be done on projects that are not only for existing buildings that are used for housing, but you can also do what's called adaptive use rehabilitation, Page 14 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 which is you can take a buildingnot previouslyused for housingand convert it into affordable housing. So the LIHTC funds can get allocated for those such projects, they do apply in the same route every year. However, what's been happening, is because of the low amount of LIHTC that we do receive, especially in the—I'm speaking just to the nine percents. Acquisition rehab projects do have a harder time competing just from a feasibility standpoint most of the time. And while we do want to—one of our missions is to preserve housing and not have projects fall out of affordability, sometimes it's difficult based on the scoring to award those projects. So the funds can be used for it, and it is one of the goals of the LIHTC program. And hopefully if this legislation goes through and we can receive a larger allocation of LIHTC, then we will be able to hopefully carve out some of that money to be used for existing projects, and rehabilitating, and preserving existing housing. I will say again that these applications for acquisition rehabs compete with the new construction but if one scores highly, which is always possible it's not impossible, the acquisition rehab project can definitely score well based on worthiness, feasible readiness, everything that we talked about, then monies will be awarded to them as well. So, everybody competes equally and yes it be used for that purpose. MR. MOHANNA: So you have asked the question that is being debated in every state. There are certain definitions at.risk, meaning the affordability expiring in five years so that in certain states they lend us a higher score to persevere and got risk. There're also situations where they say okay, it needs to be a significant rehab not a 20, 25. Some states are pushing as.high as 75,000, but you have to do a physical needs assessment to prove that is needed. Part of our portfolio that we own is we would target some of our 15, 18, 20-year-old projects to go into this concept of an acquisition rehab. However, in certain states where similar to Hawai`i, where the priorities given to the new, we have a difficult time competing. So two things here. One how did we as a company, we went, and we looked at creative sources of refinancing. Enable to be able to refinance, pull out net proceeds, and bring it back into the project, and do upgrades, and any deferred maintenance and any energy upgrades. So a simple example, I'm not saying it works in all cases. Again, it is a potential solution. So when you look at typical tax credit project, or any project over the 15, 18-year period. The reason we talk about 15, 18-year period even though your affordability 45 or 62 or longer is your tax credit investor exits. Now that's IRS (Internal Revenue Service) rules, different session different time. But what you've done, you paid down on your loan and your income has increased. So we started much lower, we're up here. So that allows us to refinance and bring in that proceeds into the good project. Page 15 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 The new lender that's coming in requires you to do what's called physical needs assessment, which I want to make sure before you pull a dollar out that everything is done, because I'm not putting my money in here for 18 years or longer, unless I make sure the needs are there. They even evaluate something called a capital replacement reserve, which is part of your operating budget. To say, in addition to paying all your expenses you're going to set 200, 300, unit a year in a reserve fund,because I also don't want to count on you having to put the money when it's needed. We'd like that we'd rather have, you know, saved for what you think is coming. So those financing mechanisms and there is a few of them out there that can be used in order to refinance such communities. Now I'm not talking communities that have such significant deferred maintenance that certain units are offline. My first comment, those should never reach that stage if it's properly maintained, developed, and managed. That is an unacceptable position for anybody to live in those conditions. And so, hence in our communities that have reached 15, 18 years, we actually struggled to put the money in, so we upgrade energy when we do that. I think number one, we should always ask are there different refi options available to refi them in order to get the net proceeds from refi and reinvest them into the community, and does it allow that community to remain financially feasible for the long run. If that option is available, then that is option one because then we're allowing the scarce resources to go to our new housings being added. So you get the best of both worlds, does that work in every situation, absolutely not,but it's definitely something that should be evaluated carefully so that we are maximizing these sources. One of the things HHFDC and many other agencies tell us try to find other options, try to find other solutions to finance these, and there are some creative solutions. They don't work all the time; they work some of the time. And by the way, even LIHTC doesn't work all the time, okay. But I think it's important to explore those, they are there, people are doing them, and not necessarily LIHTC. Where LIHTC is needed, let's try. But all I'm saying is we cannot always look at this one program to solve all our problems, it has to be different programs. And in a program like that you can come in and do a refi, you can come and use some of your county fund to supplement a gap, this way you're not even applying. You're not standing in line at HHFDC, and you are moving forward with your own resources without waiting for anyone's timeline, and so on, and so forth. So, like we mentioned earlier, great questions and the idea here is to open a debate, open up a discussion. What else can be done. We're not here to promote ourselves, we're here to promote affordable housing, it needs a village, it needs multiple developers; we're here to be a resource so that when you ask questions like that, either we say I don't know, I have to ask above my pay grade, or come up with other alternatives that we've seen through what we've experienced. And let's test them, let's share them with the opened community. We're not going to do an acq(acquisition) rehab or focus on something else, there's nothing that says we can't help another developer Page 16 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 maneuver through this because that helps everybody, this is what it's about, it's collaboration, it's behaving like a village. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks, I appreciate you saying that. You know, I was born and raised here. I had the opportunity with my partner to be able to purchase a home in Hawaiian Paradise Park. And you think about the housing ladder before we were able to do that, we were living in essentially affordable housing. These little houses next to Waiakea High School, a thousand dollars a month. We were able to save up enough in order to buy our first home, and I drive past these homes, and I think, I wonder if it's another family like me that is now saving up to potentially buy their own home. I know two other families that were also living there at the same time, and they were able to save up enough to buy their own. So it's really about making sure that we have obtainable housing, depending on whatever your circumstances. You may want a rental, you may be a kupuna looking to downsize, you may be expanding your family, so just making sure that there is an option depending.on your life situation. You touched on something earlier about ensuring that there's gap money available, LIHTC is not the one size fits all solution. I'm sure you're aware that our county now has an affordable housing production program that's finally kicking off That was a bill we introduced last term because the whole point was the Federal Government may not be able to subsidize everything, and sometimes developers just need a little bit more to get to the next phase or get over the finish line. So I think it's a collective, we're really excited about having potentially close to $20 million dollars available for this first round. So it will be interesting to see what projects were able to help materialize, but also if there's some of this adapter for use that's happening. The final question that I have, you've talked about different cost savings. Land, infrastructure, fee waivers, design guidelines, you didn't mention regulations, so I'm curious if we can only actualize affordable housing by leveraging tools like 201(H). MR. MOHANNA: So, maybe when I was talking about how fast we can get through it implied, definitely regulations is one of it. 201H is by all means a very good tool to help development of affordable housing. Many states have taken up similar actions, other states have gone further instead if you meet certain affordability. It's administrative and the county's city has to respond with approval in 90 days, otherwise the state comes down hard on them. So I think the 201H program is a very good program, as far as regulations, and it does allow us to bring whether it's design guideline, fees, constraints, all of that to the table. I personally think it's a good program. But again, it's part of that, so when we talk about regulation, I go back to how quickly you can promote and get a building Page 17 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 permit. How quickly can you minimize and streamline comments that you're getting? So all of that is part of regulation. I do want to pivot to something very important when you talk about housing and attainability. What is interesting, you're right. When we looked and did a study in one neighborhood that they didn't want the project to come because people were living there, we took the income that was required 30, 40 years ago to buy a home and we transitioned it through a net present value to what it is today. And they didn't qualify to live in the 60 percent units, scary. So when we come and talk, hey, not in backyard but let's look at the bright side. What a lot of people don't understand is the LIHTC housing at 60 percent area median income and less is a very interesting bridge to homeownership, how? Not very knownfact and sometimes it's misunderstood, but it's an important part of it. When you qualify to go into a 60 precent low-income housing, AMI, or lower, you qualify at initial entry and therefore afterwards as your income increases, you are not disqualified. And you don't pay a higher rent than 60 percent. So what you're doing now is you're working hard to improve yourself, to improve yourself in your work, to make more money, yet your rent is still restricted. First things first you spend a little,yeah. So when I want to go to a shop and my kid asks for something, my kid and I are tired of saying no all the time because we can't afford it. But what we try to do through vehicles with service providers is try to provide what's called budgeting and planning, help them with their credit, and help them save for a down payment. If they're in a market rate community where the economy is doing better and rightly so, it's a different economic. The rent is being increased. Even though their income is increasing, their chasing the rent. In a LIHTC transaction, they are not chasing the rent if they actually work hard. If you think about it, we develop these with very nice amenities. When their income goes above 60 percent, they're going to leave for the luxury and pleasure of paying higher rent somewhere, and their getting the same package we're giving them. You should look at the developments we do, they're not going to leave. So what they do is we should work with them,.and we do work with them, and we do have a.number of residents in our communities that actually leave because they can buy a home where it's safe. Second component to it are kupuna. Many of our kupuna—why do we build senior housing. We get to a point like I can't get up on that roof or I think I can, but my wife says I can't. So we're not here for my therapy session, but what it really does is we'll buy a senior couple or senior person moving from that house we've freed up a home. Now, chances are the way I'm seeing right now, I'm visiting many communities; the second, third, and forth, generation are already there, but we freed up a home. So senior housing is also as important, because then it's a smaller unit. And whether it's their family right there or even if they sell it,you've put inventory back. So those are interesting aspects that we have to Page 18 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 look at the full circle, but from the financial planning, that can be done to help people save and improve their credit. Then all different things,but when they're looking at the spectrum creating what's called attainable for sale housing; get FHA (Federal Housing Administration) approved, VA(Veteran's Affairs) approved, because don't go build something without having the project FHA approved or VA, because you can't get the loan for some home buyer. But VA zero down, FHA five percent down, three percent with the PMI; that's the spectrum that has to be done or they can actually go and buy there. But don't under estimate the benefit of 60 percent AMI. Now there are 80 percent and 100 percent and ALICE (Asset, Limited, Income, Constrained, Employed) and Missing(a range of middle multi-family or clustered housing types with multiple units) discussions for other times. But those are the benefits that people don't know about from the 60 percent AMI and the Senior Housing. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, so much. I'm going to be following up to just kind of explore some of the other things that came up today. We're kind of under a time crunch. And I just want to thank you, Chair, for the latitude in asking these questions. I yield. CHR. VILLEGAS: Sure, thank you so much. Yes, we are unfortunately in a time crunch with our next committee, it's supposed to start in three minutes, and we still have another topic to cover under this committee. I just had a quick—if everybody else is finished. First off, thank you for being here. Thank you for laying what can so often feel like Greek, and also feel a little bit like the land of the Ponzi schemes. We've really struggled in this county with some issues related to affordable housing credits, and the manipulation of that system. We are like many other places in the state and the nation, experiencing a housing crisis which is directly tied to a work force crisis. Something that's become really apparent to me, and as Council Member Lee Loy mentioned, you know, the term developer does make skin crawl, because it is tied to a history of manipulations, speculation, and one- way financial gain with nominal contributions to authentic affordable housing components. Something that feels a little better rolling off my tongue is saying workforce housing instead of affordable housing. Too many people hear affordable housing and assume low-income housing. And so when talking about workforce housing, you're talking about—as you said that person with that 60 percent AMI that, you know, our wages compared to housing cost and rents right now are so incompatible it's actually also tragic. With that comes infrastructure, you know, District 7, where I represent on the Kona side, we're at capacity without infrastructure. We need the housing, but we don't have the roads, we don't have Page 19 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 the schools, we don't have the wastewater treatment facilities. So we're having this dance. I appreciate you being here and bringing David from the Hawai`i Housing Finance and Development Corporation, to help kind of hold our hand and make this feel a little more familiar. My one question that I have, because I've heard from a number of people who have come asking about potential housing developments or what not, they always say well we can't make it, pencil for that. And my question to one of them was, well what is the industry norm or assumed amount of money or percentage of a profit margin that's expected to be made? And somebody once told me it was 20 precent and my own naive etymology but I said well maybe it needs to be 15 percent. I guess I wondered what your understanding of what that percentage of profit margin was, and am I completely out of my mind to think that's even a viable ask, because we are in a crisis state. There is a desire to work with one another, but in a county, that's been historically manipulated, speculated, and the money going out, instead of staying here, not to mention the homes that are being built I really appreciate in your PowerPoint you say the homes are for kama`aina and your makaainana and the people of this place; not for second and third homes or retiring and maybe there's a few homes on the side that would be available for those that somehow had a wind fall of$200,000 for a down payment. So just briefly, if you could help me understand that. And I think all of us would probably like to exchange cards with you after this so that we can continue these conversations offline. MR. MOHANNA: And once again, I volunteer David's information on the screen. The IRS agrees with you, its 15 percent max, by the way, FYI. But in order to be competitive with the state, I don't know that we maximize our allowed developer fees under the Section 42. Very, very, quick comments. Low-income housing tax credit program affordable verses workforce housing. It is truly workforce housing because if we don't have any subsidy vouchers, they have to qualify on their income. •And so many of times we go and visit them during working days and it's like somebody told me, well I thought you were fully occupied, where's everybody; they're at work. The other thing about this particular program and the transparency of this particular program ram is it is heavily audited. So first, start with where's the money going and is the moneygoingelsewhere. So the allocations are received from the g g state, the state gives you money,the county gives you money; we don't get the money, the money goes to the construction lender that only distributes it when there's a third-party inspector doing the inspection, verifying that the work has been done, and it's paid directly to the third party. When all is said and done, the state is required per IRS regulations to get a third-party auditor to audit that all the money; where it went, what was for qualified cost, what was for not qualified cost, and say well wait a minute, what about those auditors? Well in order to Page 20 • CRCOC-8 June 6, 2023 receive these tax credits that financial institutions; the JP Morgan, Chases, and all of those in the world, want to verify that the audit is accurate and that the money that was allocated at the Federal and State Government went specifically not only for the project,but for the intended uses. So it's heavily, heavily regulated as to where the funds go. The state has to review that audit and has to issue an opinion that they call them 8609's. Where are my 8609's, David? I need to ask him anyways, but they have to issue them otherwise the tax credit investor will not give you your tax credit equity, unless this audit is done and reviewed by the state at the IRS level. So the good news here is the low-income housing tax credit industry is heavily regulated, and then there's compliances and so on. Fees and others, unfortunately, this developer fee that you're talking about. So there's two things here, and there's a reason I mentioned early$500,000 in the beginning, and $500,000 at the end. Both the state and both our lenders, and investors we have a contingency, which hey, what if we don't meet all our costs. Surprise, you always use some contingency. They actually withhold your developer fee because lenders and investors deem that developer fee that they contingency line item. So theywill first tell want to hold all the way as a second g y you you're not getting it and it's going to be deferred and paid over 15 years. So, we have every incentive to work and work hard and be transparent or sit down on a different session, and I guarantee you when you walk out, you're like, why in the world are you doing this business as we get asked often. CHR. VILLEGAS: Well then, I would tell you, why in the world am I doing this business too. So, we would have a good conversation there. Thank you, Mr. Mohanna. MR. MOHANNA: I do want to thank you all very much for taking the time. I do want to make sure we are available as a resource, whether one on one or to come back anytime you need. David is an amazing resource, he has more in-house knowledge at the state level that I can ever have. The objective here today is to have a Hawai`i State Agency, be here listening to the conversation and presentation that we're presenting to you as a private developer. To know that this is a collaborative effort, and to keep transparency and honesty. And David, thank you for taking the time to join us,but that's why I wanted him to be here so that what I say is right on the spot being verified. CHR. VILLEGAS: You will be held accountable for that, based on that kuleana. Thank you, Mo. And our next issue will be with our auditor. So it was a great segway, so thank you so much. And with that we have a motion on the floor to close file on Communication 302, all those in favor. • Page 21 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 Vote on Comm. 302: The motion to close file on Comm. 302 was carried (Filed) by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Lee Loy, Kimball,and Chair Villegas—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Return to Order The Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business. of Business: COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, CATIONS: Communications. Comm. 301: PERFORMANCE AUDIT 2023-02: DEPARTMENT OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY HELP DESK AND HELP DESK WORK ORDER PROCESSES From County Auditor Tyler J. Benner, dated May 1, 2023, transmitting the above audit report pursuant to Section 3-18(d)(2) of the Hawai`i County Charter. Motion to Close File: Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 301. Seconded by Ms..Kagiwada. CHR. VILLEGAS: Mr. Benner. Thank you for your patience with us today, and for the switching of order. MR. BENNER: No problem, of course. And I won't be very long. CHR. VILLEGAS: Alright. (Note: At this time County Auditor Tyler Benner came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. BENNER: Aloha, Council, good to be with you today. My name is Tyler Benner, I'm with the Office of the County Auditor. I'm joined in chambers today by Jasmine Santos. Jasmine was the lead auditor for this engagement, and we're here today to debrief Council on Audit Report 2023-02 that we conducted with the Department of Information Technology, entitled Help Desk and Help Desk Work Orders. The objective of the audit was to evaluate if the Department of Information Technology help desk work order processes are effectively designed to ensure compliance with industry standards. Page 22 • CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 The purpose and effective help desk, directly and indirectly contributes to the success of every department and division in achieving their unique goals and objectives. In discussing their methodology to conduct this audit we developed an understanding of policies and procedures, practices and internal controls over help desk and help desk work orders. We access compliance with applicable laws, governance, and standards such as the control objectives for information related technologies for covid. Information Technologies Service Management, ITSM, and Information Technology Infrastructure Library or ITIL. We corroborated information with appropriate staff, reviewed information pertinent to the help desk and help desk work orders, conducted site visits. As always noted in the exceptions and identified areas for improvement, and we were mindful of fraud waste and abuse during the audit. So what were our results, we're pleased to report that the opportunities to improve that we identified are larger qualitative and within the departments reach. Proven opportunity comprised six recommendations, which included adding performance metrics, policies, and procedures, improving elements of program oversight, adding training incentives to allow the staff skill sets to improve with new and changing technologies, extend training opportunities to end users to further educate appropriate use of the ticketing system, and finally to access the use of its current resources and apply tools currently at its disposal to improve program effectiveness while identifying remaining gaps. So closing thoughts, we had a very thoughtful interaction with the staff who were extremely helpful throughout the process. We would especially like to thank, Help Desk Division Chief Matt, who provided valuable evidence, insight, context, and clarification. And we mahalo our former Director of Information Technology, Mr. Uehara, he had,planned on being here today,but has a mainland vendor on site with them and had to give his full attention to them. He responded on one the most detailed plans of action today using our suggested smart response methodology, which includes elements of being specific, measurable, achievable, relevant, and time bound in their criteria. Finally, Mr. Ewbanks (Robert) who pledge to continue to work on the action plan put forward by his predecessor selected for the role. The results of this audit as with all that had been performed under my tenure here,being added to our mediation tracker, which is available for Council, the Administration, the department, or the public to monitor at your convivence. If improvements were achieved prior to our return,we've informed the department that they can call us back and we'll verify and update the tracker live. And that concludes my presentation, the Council. I can turn it over to the department for any questions the Council might have for them. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, so much. Council Members anyone have any questions? Council Member Evans. Page 23 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 MS. EVANS: Hi. I was looking at your conclusion and recommendations. And the last one is the one I kind of focused on, and that's evaluate budget staffing and other resources. If you look at the program architecture staffing levels, and resource allegations, how did you look at the fact that people call in, kind of explain what the problem is, or they write you and explain what the problem is, and then you have to actually kind of do, I call it a triage. You know, it's like you have to—can,we band aid it, can we fix it, if we not fix it who do we send it out to. When you show other resources and stuff, do you feel like we have that adequate back up through contracts and local vendors to help support IT (Informational Technology) when they don't have,you know, they can't fix for example a Dell, PC (personal computer), or whatever. Do you feel they got that adequate back up? MR. BENNER: That's a great question. I might draw your attention to page 12 and 13 of the report,because we actually did a process mapping flow chart. The first one on the left-hand side, page 12, is a generic flow chart which includes an escalation process. And on the right is the high-level overview ticket per process that the department follows. I think what we found is that department is lacking in its documented flows; the escalation procedures that would be necessary to get some of those things resolved. MS: EVANS: Okay, so there is a way to kick it, well maybe I have to ask the IT guy,but the way to kick it out from then to the support that we might have contractors or people out there. Maybe there in Hilo that helped them when they can't fix it. MR. BENNER: Yeah, given the variety of different vendors that might be involved there. We know they do have contacts and they do call in outside resources. We just don't have a documented escalation process as to when all internal avenues are exhausted, when escalation procedures should come into place. MS. EVANS: Okay, is that decision made by a boss, like a supervisor. Like the people do all the work, and eventually they have to give it to the boss that makes the call. MR. BENNER: I'd say generally yes, but I'd be answering on behalf of the department if I'm saying specifically. So, perhaps the department would like to come forward and answer that. MS. EVANS: Thank you. I can talk to them later, but I just see—this is such a wonderful document it just points out so much. It's just I want to make sure we give them the tools that when it reaches that escalation point, they just sorry we can't do it boom. You know, it's very clear we can send it out and get response. Page 24 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 MR. BENNER: Thank you for that. And one more time, I'll just go ahead and plug the management response portion of the audit,because that really does define the strategic steps that they plan to take within their resource allocations to try to better their situation. MS. EVANS: Thank you. I yield. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you. Anyone else? Council Chair Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Benner. Of course, beautiful audit as always, lots of beautiful figures. I just have two questions. I kind of zeroed into the same place that Council Member Evans did which was the under utilization of resources piece. And I wanted to ask our new Acting Director, I was particularly concerned about this issue with hot spot, and thinking it was more complex and maybe not as useful tools that appears that it maybe. I'd like to know how that's being addressed, that's question one. Question two is how is the budget that we just got with all of the additional resources for DIT. (Department of Informational Technology). Is that in response to this audit? I mean you were provided with this stuff a while ago, so is some of that investment in DIT based on the recommendations of this report in broad strokes, can you kind of just define how that has happened? (Note: At this time Director of Information Technology Robert Ewbank came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. EW BANK: So as'far as your first question the help spot, it is the tool we utilize for ticket tracking. It was understood that there was not necessarily the reporting and KPI's, KPM's, that we needed but apparently there are. So we have delved into that a little bit. I've asked staff to help me, and as far as this report I've received it two weeks ago. So I didn't have that much time,but I have read not only this report,but also reports from 2021, as well as 2015. I'm reviewing all of the information assessing everything that I can so that we get things to where they need to be. MR. BENNER: Council,just to elaborate on that. I will say that regarding the people piece of it I believe that the department sought ten positions and five were going to specifically help this area. In looking at order of operations, it would be good to-get full utilization of the software. Assess and find out what remaining gaps you have, and allocate personnel towards it. But I think they're probably a clearer need for additional personnel to be put towards it, so regarding the budget piece, I think that does largely address that. It's not a matter of turning on functionality that's not there. When we spoke with the sales agents for help spot it is either the full-on suite or not. So it's just ensuring that they know how to use the software correctly at their disposal, and that shouldn't require additional resources from you. Page 25 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 MS. KIMBALL: Great so that's likely just a training issue moving forward and obviously invested in that in the budget. Okay, great, so it sounds like that you're new and just getting on board with all this stuff,but the previous director had this in hand as he was making the budget request. MR. BENNER: Yeah, you know he was in the enviable position of coming into that roll of having to provide a management response on day one for an audit. So when he was put back into that position on his way out, he wanted to make sure and be the one to provide the response for the department having been there from the onset, and also to set it up in a way where it can be continued to fruition. MS. KIMBALL: Alright, thank you for that clarification. Welcome on board in your new position. I yield, Chair. CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you so much. Any questions or comments from anyone else? Nope, thank you. Thank you so much, Mr. Benner. As always you continue to go far, and above, and beyond in your level of thoroughness and providing information. And congratulations on your new role, hopefully it's not frying pan into the fire here. I know you got some questions about expanding our capacity foremail storage, I know myself, I'm struggling with that as well. So we can talk about that offline. But, grateful to see the recognition of areas for improvement, which we all have, and how to move forward with those in a productive and efficient manner. MR. EWBANK: Thank you. CHR. VILLEGAS: With that we have a motion on the floor, all those in favor of closing file on Communication 301? Any opposed? Vote on Comm. 301: The motion to close file on Comm. 301 was carried (Filed) by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, and Chair Villegas—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. . Page 26 CRCOC-8 June 6,2023 ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 2:46 p.m., Ms. Kimball moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, and Chair Villegas—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. CHR. VILLEGAS: We are adjourned: Approved: Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair (Date) Communications, Reports, and Council Oversight Committee RV/rk Page 27