HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOEAC 2023/06/20 (2022-2024) Committee on Governmental Operations
and External Affairs
11th Session
West Hawaii Civic.Center
74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A
Kailua-Kona, Hawai`i
June 20, 2023
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations and
ORDER: External Affairs was called to order at 10:03 a.m., in the Council Chambers,
Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Cindy Evans, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Cindy Evans, Chair
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Vice Chair (via videoconference from Hilo)
Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member
Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member(via yideoconference from Hilo)
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member
Absent& Excused: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: (There were none.)
COMMUNICATIONS
Comm. 317: NOMINATION OF AELANI KEOLANUI TO THE YOUTH COMMISSION
From Council Member Jennifer Kagiwada, dated May 26, 2023.
Motion to Close File: Ms. Kagiwada moved to close file on Comm. 317.
Seconded by Ms. Villegas.
CHR. EVANS: Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yes. Relley, do we have Aelani on zoom?
GOEAC-11 June 20,2023
MR. ARACELEY: Sony, Council Member I just checked, and we do not at this
time.
Motion to Table: Ms. Kagiwada moved to table Comm. 317 until the nominee
arrives. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the
following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Chair Evans— 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder— 1.
Excused: None.
Comm. 318: NOMINATION OF KEITH UNGER TO THE WATER BOARD
From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated June 1, 2023, requesting the Council's review
and confirmation.
Requires Council
Confirmation by: July 15, 2023 (Section 13-4(k)
Hawai`i County Charter)
Vote on Comm. 318: Ms. Galimba moved to recommend confirmation of the
(Approved) nomination of Mr. Keith Unger to the Water Board.
Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz and carried by the
following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Chair Evans— 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali i—Kleinfelder— 1.
Excused: None.
Executive Assistant to the Mayor Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward
and provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and
experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment.
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GOEAC-11 June 20,2023
Comm. 319: NOMINATION OF SAMUEL PLUNKETT, JR. TO THE PUBLIC ACCESS,
OPEN SPACE, AND NATURAL PRESERVATION COMMISSION
From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated June 1, 2023, requesting the Council's review
and confirmation.
Requires Council
Confirmation by: July 15, 2023 (Section 13-4(k)
Hawai`i County Charter)
Vote on Comm. 319: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend confirmation of the
(Approved) nomination of Mr. Samuel Plunkett Jr. to the Public Access,
Open Space, and Natural Preservation Commission. Seconded
by Ms. Kierkiewicz and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Chair Evans—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder— 1.
Excused: None.
Executive Assistant to the Mayor Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward
and provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and
experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment.
CHR. EVANS: So my understanding is that we have Aelani Keolanui for the
Youth Commission she is present by zoom, is that correct? Okay.
Motion to Remove Ms. Kagiwada moved to remove Comm. 317 from the
from Table: table. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the
following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Chair Evans— 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder— 1.
Excused: None.
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GOEAC-11 June 20,2023
Vote on Comm. 317: The motion to close file on Comm. 317 was
(Filed) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Chair Evans— 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder— 1.
Excused: None.
Comm. 327: NOMINATION OF JEREMY BUTTERFIELD TO THE FIRE BOARD OF
APPEALS
From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated June 1, 2023, requesting the Council's
review and confirmation.
Requires Council
Confirmation by: July 15, 2023 (Section 13-4(k)
Hawai`i County Charter)
Vote on Comm. 327: Mr. Inaba moved to recommend confirmation of the
(Approved) nomination of Mr. Jeremy Butterfield to the Fire
Board of Appeals. Second by Ms. Kagiwada and
carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy,
Villegas, and Chair Evans— 8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder— 1.
Excused: None.
Executive Assistant to the Mayor Pomaika`i Bartolome came forward
and provided a brief narrative of the nominee's background and
experience. Committee Members spoke in favor of the appointment.
CHR. EVANS: Council Members, I'm going to recommend a five minutes break.
We will reconvene at 11:13, thank you. We're in recess.
Recess: At 11:08 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 11:13 a.m.
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GOEAC-11 June 20,2023
CHR. EVANS: Thank you everyone. We're reconvening the Governmental Operations and
External Affairs Committee. It is 11:13 on June 20, 2023, and I am going to be
turning over the Chair to Member Inaba. Clerk, please note.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, the Chair relinquished the chair to Mr. Inaba.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Let the record reflect that I've assumed the
chair at 11:12 a.m. And I believe we can read in Bill 49
MR. HENRICKS: Sure just before we do so, I just want to note that per the
Rules, typically Ms. Lee Loy would assume the chair at this time, though she's
participating remotely, so Mr. Inaba has graciously agreed to perform this duty.
And prior to reading this in, I would note that we do have a testifier here in the
Kona Chambers for Bill 49. Ms. Pellett if you could please come forward and
provide your testimony at this point in time. You'll have three minutes when
you start.
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
BILL 49 The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called
(COMM. 305): by the Chair:
Carolyn Pellett: Comment.
Bill 49: INITIATES AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE III, SECTION 3-4 OF THE
HAWAII COUNTY CHARTER(2022 EDITION), RELATING TO VACANCY
IN OFFICE
Proposes reducing the time allotted for the County Council to appoint a successor
to a vacant County Council district seat, establishing restrictions on official
candidates being appointed to a vacant County Council district seat, and that a
person who has been duly elected to serve the upcoming Council term shall
automatically fill a vacancy that occurs for that County Council district seat.
Reference: Comm. 305
Intr. by: Ms. Evans
Postponed: June 6, 2023
(Note: There is a motion by Ms. Evans, seconded by Mr. Inaba to recommend
passage of Bill 49 on first reading.)
and
Comm. 305.1: From Council Member Cindy Evans, dated May 24, 2023, transmitting a
proposed amendment to Bill 49.
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GOEAC-11 June 20,2023
(Note: Comm. 305.3, from County Clerk Henricks dated June16, 2023,
transmitting a cost estimate to conduct a special election to fill a vacancy within
the Hawai`i County Council, was circulated.)
(Note: Comms. 305.4 and 305.5, from Council Member Evans dated
June 19, 2023, transmitting proposed amendments to Bill 49, were circulated)
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Evans if you would like to start us off,
Bill 49.
MS. EVANS: I would like to make a motion to replace Bill 49 with the contents
of Communication 305.5.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Evans moved to amend Bill 49 with the contents of
Comm. 305.5. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Mahalo, Mr. Clerk. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you, Members and thank you, to the public. This amended
version, it really gets into the details of how to run a special election. When we
had the conversation the last time we met, there was this discussion about should
we have special election or not. Currently in our Charter Amendment if there's a
vacancy it does not allow for special election. So what I did is I looked at Kauai,
Oahu, and Maui to see how they fill vacancies. We looked at vacancies for
Prosecuting Attorney, we looked at vacancies for Mayor's, and we kind of kicked
it around what might be something that we would like in our county.
There will be another communication coming from our Clerk later, that will
indicate to you what the cost is that we would incur as taxpayers if we ran a
special election. So that information about it is a cost what are we proposing in
this amendment is that if the unexpired term is more than eighteen months. So
what that would mean, is if someone got elected to the Council and within the
first six months, they either died, they had something happen where they needed
toquit, whatever it is that created their vacancy, the belief beingthat it's less than
Y
six months, and if this kicked in the way
it's written and the wayyou have to
follow Hawai`i Revised Statute State Law, is that the election itself best case
scenario it would happen within probably 40 to 45 days of the vacancy that
occurs.
So given that by the idea being that if someone got elected in a special election,
they would probably be serving the unexpired term, which would probably be
about 13 or 14 months they would be serving, and they would be elected by the
public if it went by special election. Again, currently we do not have that option.
So if someone leaves office in the first six months it would be by the Council
taking action to appoint a person. And if the Council cannot reach an agreement
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within x amount of days, that appointment will be done by the Council Chair.
And so what we're trying to do is recommend amendments to our Charter
amendment and bring it to what I believe is more current. We haven't touched
this Charter Amendment on vacancies since around 1980. So, I believe based on
the experience that I had with a former Councilman leaving office, I think it
brought to light this would be a good time to revisit and update. So with that
Chair, I open it for questions or discussion. Thank you.
(Note: At this time, County Clerk Jon Henricks came forward to address
the members of the Committee.)
MR. HENRICKS: Thank you, Chair Inaba. Before we proceed, can I just
interject real quick? Council Member Evans referenced the communication that
will be coming forward, actually it should be in your pinkie folder,
Communication 305.3. I'd like to thank our Elections Program Administrator for
putting together an itemization of estimated cost for what it would take to conduct
a Special Election for a vacant Council seat. I would note that at the previous
meeting of this committee, I recall indicating that I don't think cost would be that
much of a factor. I would like to rescind that comment, because I think that the
total of$350,000 is a significant cost. I don't want the public to think that in any
way I would find $350,000 of taxpayer funds to be not a substantial sum. I just
wanted to bring that to everyone's attention.
And thank Ms. Saiki for taking the time to research this, talk to other counties that
have conducted special elections and also with the State of what it would take. I
just wanted to note to you that a special election would require all of the elements
of a normal election, there wouldn't be a regular election. I should say, there
wouldn't be any substitutions or any reduction of services. We would have voter
service center, we would have drop boxes, all the other elements that people have
become accustomed to over the last four elections. For elections by mail would
be part of a special elections, and that is reflected in the back part of page 305.3
with an itemization of estimated costs. And Ms. Saiki we were talking about, this
she relayed to me that she feels this is a conservative estimate rather than an
estimate that would essentially be on the money so to speak or maybe below or
higher than we would anticipate.
I want to add should this pass and then, you know, we would, and should the
Charter amendment pass but through the voters, we would be looking at
budgeting for this every other fiscal year, not knowing whether or not that a
vacancy would occur. And certainly if it did, if this became a cost factor this is
not money that we would be able to locate from other sources. So we would need
to fund for this every other fiscal year, given the time table that's provided
currently in this amendment. If there are any questions about this communication,
I'll be happy to try to answer and if not, if I'm unable to, Ms. Saiki is in the Hilo
Chambers. Thank you for that opportunity.
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ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. And thank you to our Election's
folks. Opening it up to discussion we're on the amendment in Communication
305.5.
MS. EVANS: Chair? I just wanted to follow-up to his statement.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Go ahead, Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. We are bound by the Hawai`i Revised Statute when
we run a special election. And so, what's really driving part of it is we have to
mail ballots overseas to people that are in the military. So, that timeframe that
adds on to the whole process of calling and preparing for this special election, that
is why I put in within the first six months. Because by the time you jump through
all the hoops, you would have the person fill in vacancy probably only serving
about 12- or 13-months max. So I think that's why I made it in the first six
months, because of the cost associated and the timing. The other thing is I do
have another communication that has all the other language minus the special
election that if we vote this down, I have another communication that we can
address the other things we talked about, but they mirror each other. Two
communications; one has the special election in it the other one does not. Thank
you, Chair.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Opening it up to
discussion.
MS. KIMBALL: Chair Inaba.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Yes, Council Chair Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL:_ Thank you, very much. And thank you, Council Member
Evans for being responsive to the comments that we had in our discussion last
time about this piece of legislation, and Mr. Clerk, for putting together the
estimate along with our Elections Administrator, appreciate both of you as well.
Wanted to just quickly follow-up on that last comment made by Council Member
Evans with respect to the timing. What is your estimate, either Mr. Clerk, or
Elections Administrator, as to the turnaround time it would take from the initial
request for s special election to when you could get ballots? I'm assuming that it
is around the 120-day mark, based on that being the content of the amendment
right now. But can you perhaps expand on that, is that a conservative estimate, do
you feel it could it be done in 90 days? If either of you could respond to that.
MR. HENRICKS: I'll start and then I'll ask Ms. Saiki to interject or either fill in
blanks or corrections when I'm completed. Could it be done quicker? Perhaps.
When you look at this provision, essentially because of the timeframe if this
vacancy were to happen within this first six months of the Council term, we
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would essentially be coming off of a general election, and then immediately
preparing for another election which again is a full election from our eyes. Less
candidates obviously and only one office but a full election. I'll speak for Cori
and say we're like in the 120 days if this is going to happen, as opposed to the 90.
But if it was 90, then we would have to find a way to get it done. There's many,
many components to this. A candidate filing period, there's opportunities for
candidates to withdraw, there's opportunities for people to challenge a person's
candidacy. So all of those things that are part of a regular election that you are
generally aware of as candidates, would all be in place. So, the four-month
window from the point of time where we declare through a proclamation that a
special election would occur, to the point and time where somebody is declared
the winner of that election is reasonable. And we would ensure that it gets done.
I would note too that there are components to this that somethings would be more
challenging than others. Essentially finding a place to count the ballots, you
know, unlike Maui, and Kauai, and City and County of Honolulu they have
dedicated places.
We're tasked with finding a location each election and that could be proved to be
problematic as we wouldn't maintain the place that we use for the general election
not anticipating a special election. So, I think that's something that would be
challenging and require time. So that would be a concern I would have if it was
reduced to 90 days. It's things of that nature,just making sure that if this should
occur, unfortunately there is a vacancy so soon after the Council term starts, we
would immediately start to look at when the proclamation would be made
pursuant to the Charter, and then kind of back tracking with a timeframe based
upon the time we're allotted. And I believe that would be one our first things that
we would do and say okay, this is real,.we need to find a place where we feel
comfortable, has enough sufficient square footage, security, community located to
be able to deliver the voted ballots that are deemed to be eligible and be able to
then assemble a team additionally, and observers and watchers that are critical to
this to count those ballots. So it is a significant event requiring a lot of planning
and preparation and coordination. So yeah, that's my long way of saying 120
days definitely is more appealing than 90.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. And we have the Elections
Administrator coming up.
(Note: At this time, Elections Program Administrator Cori Saiki came
forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. SAIKI: Hi, Cork Saiki, Elections Program Administrator. I agree with
everything Jon has said. But I just wanted to add one more thing in, and it would
deal with the voting system. You know, right now our contract is the State, you
know, does the contract for all the counties. If we had to conduct a special
election for our County, it's 100 percent the counties cost, and we would need to
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do all the procurement for all of that; getting the voting system, and I'm not sure
if we have to go out for bids. I really don't know what the process would be at
that point, so that would be a concern for me. I know the other counties have
done it; I know there's probably a way to do it. But as of right now I don't know
how we would do that; we would need to look into that. And to get it done within
that 120 days.
MS. KIMBALL: Okay, thank you. Yeah, I'd be curious to know if the other
counties perhaps have like an existing contract, like it's triggered if their—
perhaps they've negotiated it in advance even before there's known to be a
requirement for a special election. I believe our Deputy Clerk has a comment to
make on that.
(Note: At this time, Deputy County Clerk Aaron Brown came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MR. BROWN: Yeah, if you don't mind, Madam Chair. I think I can speak a
little bit to that with elections being, you know, especially a special election being
very unique. Then with elections now moving to all mail, because there's a lot of
moving parts, I do not believe any of the counties have like a standing contract
with any vendor, because they wouldn't know a lot of the parameters that would
have to be specified in the procurement. To follow up on what our Elections
Administrator said, I believe, and we would work closelywith theprocurement
office with Finance. But we would very likely have to go out and bid, create the
specs for the bid, and go out to bid. And that's a separate process that does take
some time to make sure we follow the procurement laws of the State.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Deputy Clerk. So to the maker of this amendment
and the bill itself, Council Member Evans, have you had any initial conversations
with Director Sako at Finance about the ability for us to budget for this in the
legislative budget going forward?
MS. EVANS: No, I have not asked her, like if we passed it if something happen.
Well we're pass six months anyway. But if we passed it, it would really come
into effect the next election cycle. But I will say this, that Kauai had to kick in
their special election for the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney, and they didn't
have a time limit on it. And so there was only like eight months remaining on the
Prosecuting Attorney's term, because of their Charter they had no choice, they
had to run the special election, the public was so upset that they removed it from
the Charter this last November.
So the timing of a special election and the cost really is a factor that whatever we
do, we'd have to show the public that there's nexus between being very
democratic and giving the public the right to pick who's going to represent them
versus what is the cost to run a special election with what little remaining or
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maybe a lot of remaining time left. And that's why it's going to be really
important, I think, that we have this discussion and make this informed decision
which is, this is going to be costly and timely to run a special election.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you, Council Member Evans. And I like the fact
that because this is a Charter amendment, ultimately the voters will have the
opportunity to weigh in on that question. Personally, I would think all the
counties are different in terms on how the representation is set up. You know,
we're by district representation and for me that makes the argument stronger to
have a special election, because it's certain voters that are representing a certain
seat, rather than like Kauai's countywide arrangement. So I'm going to be
supporting this amendment today, as I think it is the better approach and I like the
other corrections that you have made. The one comment I would make is I would
actually be willing to consider this for a shorter duration of time remaining, as
much as maybe 15 to 13 months, even with a 120-day turnaround time until the
election, because I think there would still be enough time left on the term for it to
be meaningful to have the special election.
I do think this is still a rare scenario where that would actually be triggered, but I
would be willing to consider a shorter duration for the remainder of the term.
There are a couple of minor editorials changes I would make with the inclusion of
the clause, qualifications required by Section 3-3 in various parts of this. I think
there just needs to be a couple of commas or some things moved around, so that it
flows and reads a little better. I appreciate the addition of that language, but just
for the next iteration, I think just for clarity, there might be some additional
punctuation needed. Thank you, Chair. I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Bringing it back here to Kona, Council
Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. And thank you to the maker for listening
to what we had to say. I'm going to just ask the Clerk once again to explain the
funding, and what happens if we budget for a special election, and we don't use
that funding. Where does that funding go?
MR. HENRICKS: Right. So typically, anything of that nature would go back
into the fund balance.
MS. KAGIWADA: So it's just going back into the fund balance even if, you say
you passed that six months or whatever barrier at that point? Whatever we end up
putting it once it goes past that term, it could be added back in the fund balance?
MR. HENRICKS: Well if it's not encumbered prior to the fiscal year expiring, it
would go into the fund balance. I hope Deanna is not ringing her hands right now
listening to my explanations on these things. And as you stated, there would
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become a point and time where it would be funds that could not be used, pursuant
to the Charter. There'd be a certain portion of time in the fiscal year it would be
moot. So there's other things that could possibly be done, it could be transferred
out for another cause or purpose within the branch or even within another
department, if it's needed. Although generally when you budget for these types
of very specific events or items and it's not used for that, then it would revert or
just back to the fund balance. And it wouldn't be each fiscal year, it would only
be those fiscal years where there's a potential for this to occur.
MS. KAGIWADA: Right, so every other year.
MR. HENRICKS: It depends on the timeframe, if it overlaps two fiscal.years,
then we would need to consider that. But if that timeframe of when it could occur
because of the vacancy occurs within that window, then we might only have to
budget this amount in that particular fiscal year in case it's needed.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. So, it almost seems like it's just a chunk of money
that would sit there unusable for anything else.
MR. HENRICKS: I would think that would turn out to be a good result by and
large because a vacancythat earlyin the term is certainly not ideal and probably
g
not what the voters want, nor what the candidate that won the office would have
wanted, so.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah, certainly. I'm trying to understand financially for the
County what that means, it means putting aside this chunk of money that we're
not able to use for other things.
MR. HENRICKS: Right. I think it would be irresponsible to not include it in the
proper budget with the anticipation that either it won't occur because it's as
Ms. Kimball said, it's hopefully, you know, knock on wood if there's any around
here unlikely. And then, it would also be irresponsible to not budget for it, and
should it occur to try to find the money. It's a significant sum of money, it's not
something that I believe we would have an easy time in locating those funds in
order to do what we need to do.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you. I have a better understanding of that. So
with that I just would say that I also think a slightly longer maybe not as long as
Council Member Kimball said, but I was thinking more like if there's, you know,
if we do eight months and then it takes four months for the special election at least
then there's another year left in the term. Something like that. Eight or nine
months in that range. But I do think letting the public elect their own
representative is really important. And hopefully you never have to do this, but
good discussion, and thank you for bringing this forward.
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ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Heading over
to Hilo, Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. I'm not sure if this question is for our
Clerk or for Corporation Counsel. I'm trying to walk through the mechanics and
maybe even our Elections Administrator can help us. When a candidate—when
an election occurs and we all listen to the results, there actually is a window to
certify those election results. And I also believe an opportunity for a protest, is
that correct?
MR. HENRICKS: I'll do my best to answer your relatively simple question, and
then Ms. Saiki will either add in or correct. There is no difference in this election.
There would be a period of time to certify the election and also a challenge
period, which I'm not sure if that factors into the 120 days total that we would
need to include on the backend after the County would declare a winner. And
then we would need to factor in some of that 120 days for the purpose of
certifying the election and also the challenge period. We would need to look into
whether or not that's outside of the 120 days or would be within the 120 days.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you for that, Jon. I'm trying to ask two questions here
because the vacancy occurs, right. And then in a particular most recent case were
looking at, is when a Council Member was elected to the Senate Office. I'm just
concerned because my understanding is there is a window of a challenge and a
time for when both election results or the entire election results would have to be
certified. And my concern is some of the mechanics contained within this bill
would maybe trump,that certification and or challenge period where a Council
Chair could actually seat an individual. Maybe this is a better question to take
offline with our Clerk and our Elections Administrator.
This body knows that when we're passing policy, I'm trying to put it into practice.
And so my concern is, would we presumably be placing someone in office to
early because we haven't satisfied the election result and the challenge period,
which I know to be 10 days, and so I'm looking at everybody and everybody's
thinking really hard around here. Chair, I'm going to yield at this time and take
this conversation offline with our Elections Administrator and Clerk, and maybe
we can work out the mechanics of it without taking up too much of the Council's
time. I yield.
MR. HENRICKS: Ms. Lee Loy, I'll just say at this point and time as it's written
it says that the special election is to be held within 120 days. I'll talk to Judge
Strance about this and also my counter parts in the other counties that have
conducted special elections. Whether or not when it says to be held, does to be
held mean, you know, including those components that are critical to the process,
and require as far as certifications and challenges. And then actually being able to
swear somebody in, which is the last part of everything. I'll make it simple when I
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GOEAC-11 June 20,2023
ask the question when I work with our Corporation Counsel and our colleagues
that have done this is, does those 120 days, you know, does that person who won
the seat need to be sworn in on or before that 120th day. I'll keep it that simple,
and if this passes and moves forward then I'll report back on that.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. And the area I've actually really focused on is under
Subsection B in which it notes, qualification requirements Section 3-3 shall be
appointed by the Council Chairperson to fill the vacancy until a successor is duly
elected. I think that's the—I just want to make sure we're providing ourselves
enough clearing house days to make sure we're okay. But I also just kind of
working in the mechanics if it were to occur. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Bringing it back
here to Kona, Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Okay, can I have Elizabeth Strance please, Corporation Counsel.
It says the special election shall be held in accordance with election laws of the
state, and so as far applicable. Within five days of the election proclamation, a
temporary successor with qualifications required by section shall be appointed by
the Council Chair to fill the vacancy until a successor is duly elected. So I think
duly elected and the other statement about doing it in accordance with election
laws they don't conflict with each other, I don't think. And so this question about
certifying election, I think it's kind of covered by this. I don't think it's within the
120 days, but I'm looking forward to your response.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. STRANCE: Thank you, Council Member. Elizabeth Strance, Corporation
Counsel. I think one of the things that you might want to do between now and the
next hearing is actually put together like a timeline, to see how it lines up. One of
the things that we tried to do with this bill and let me just step back. You know
there's the county law part, but elections are highly regulated by the state. And so
we wanted to craft a bill that was generally enough not to conflict with the state
law, and refer back to the state law when we could. And so the questions that are
being raised today, are concerns about whether there are conflicts, and they
appear to be timing issues. And so I think we can put our heads together, between
now and next hearing.
The second point just doesn't matter of drafting because Charter amendments are
so special, you know, they have to be voted on by the public. And we're
changing the law and our Charter is too specific,then we run the risk of having
charter provisions that then run up against state law. And so from a drafting
standpoint, we think it's important to place the sentiments of this body in a
proposed amendment, and enough kind of procedural detail to provide guidance.
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GOEAC-11 June 20,2023
But not so much that if there's a change in state law, that our County Charter then
runs afoul of the new state law. And so that's when some of the challenge in
trying to put these things together.
I think we're a little more comfortable with the special election language with the
question that Council Member Lee Loy raised, and less comfortable with the
appointment in that very short window, where state law requires state elected
officials to take office immediately. Whereas County Council Members don't
take office until the first week of December, so there's that puka of time.
You know, I agree with Clerk that we need to put our heads together a little bit
and maybe we can put together a timeline. And when we do that, I think we'll see
pretty clearly whether we're bumping up against something that requires a further
amendment.
ACTING CHR. INABA: You still have the floor, Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I think the exercises well worth it, because if this goes
to the public for vote were going to have that information, I think to show the
public what the timeline is going to be. So it would be very beneficial, if it
passes. The body decides, you know, we want to hold special elections if the
vacancy occurs within, could be within 15 months versus 18 months, you know,
shorten it. That's what I'm hearing today. I think people would want to know
how that would roll out, you know, if there is a vacancy.
MS. STRANCE: I agree, and the other thing to keep in mind is that there would
be nothing to prevent this body from enacting ordinances that further support the
sentiment stated in the Charter. And so where there are some procedural issues,
the passing of the code change will give this body a little more flexibility to
respond to changes in state law as well.
MS. EVANS: Okay, thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Council
Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. And thank you, Judge Strance, for
sharing that. That was one of the questions I was going to ask was related to the
language that we have in the Charter can any of it actually rest in our County
Code or even Council Rules, where we have a little bit of flexibility, to make
changes in real time with Charter amendments. I get a little bit hesitant because
of this of this specificity and the ability to make changes only every two years
when election goes around. So, I support having a special election. I do want to
think about the timeframe, but I wonder if as you say, the process and procedures
can be something that we further articulate within our Code.
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GOEAC-11 June 20,2023
MS. STRANCE: Thankou Council Member. If this bodywants to have a
Y
special election, there needs to be an amendment to the County Charter because
the County Charter as written, places the appointment authority maybe with the
Council or the Council Chair. And so if you want this special election then we
have to do a Charter change. Also if you would like to have that appointment in
that puka of time there needs to be a change, because the timing that's laid out
and the Charter that's currently written, really doesn't give this body time to act
before the new electee would be taking office. And so, right now there's some
timing issues for both situations.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I'm curious. So is it enough to say, right, hypothetically in
the Charter amendment if the unexpired term is more than eighteen months, the
vacancy shall be filled by special election period. And then more specifics, live in
the County Code.
MS. STRANCE: You're talking about for an amendment to the Charter?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes. I'm wondering how specific we need to be, only
because we just don't know how this will unfold. We may want to make changes
based on lived experiences. And again, amendments to Charter can only occur
every two years. I'm just adding to the conversation because there's no going
back really on this. And, you know, I think about the section of code related to
PONC (Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation
Commission), and how incredibly specific we've become, where it's actually tied
the hands of the County in our community to fulfill the intention of the program,
so.
MS. STRANCE: I would think you would want a little bit more detail than
you've described, because you probably don't want to have a special election if
your already into an election cycle. And so that 18 months or whatever you
decide upon is to really kind of have an election outside of the normal elections
cycle. And so, I would think you'd need a little bit more than what you're
describing, and if you want to address the timing issue that we ran into is now
Senator Richards, you know, having to resign after Council Member Evans had
been elected. But there was really no time within which this body could have
acted.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Judge Strance in this situation of now Senator Richards
being elected to the State Senate that's happened twice now. First with now,
Senator Kanuha and then Tim Richards. The language in Subsection C, if an
individual had been elected out right in August a member of this body now moves
to the House or Senate, would they be able to be sworn in after election results on
the state side have been certified to fulfill the remaining—or to be present and a
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voting member in the remaining council meetings. I think it's like one Council
meeting, is that your interpretation of this language?
MS. STRANCE: Yes. Either, if that person was it would happen after the
general election because if a Council Member is voted in outright, you still
somebody that has a number of months left on their term. So, you're really only
addressing that one month.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Over one meeting.
MS. STRANCE: Yeah, one meeting. So I mean, I think in City and County of
Honolulu. Some Council's don't meet during the interim between the election
and being sworn in. Other counties give the authority to the Mayor and in the
Federal offices there's, I think, a 60-day period for either presidential or
gubernatorial appointment. And so I think you folks just need to decide as a
matter of policy what pukas you want to fill and how. My recommendation
would be to generally state yet in a Charter amendment, and then let the clerks do
their work according to state law.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Council Member Evans, I appreciate the opportunity for
this discussion. The concern I have about a 120-day potential special election
processes, you came to the table with this legislation saying that you would like a
district to have a representative. A voice, a voting member of this body. During a
special election, that district would be without a voice for four months. It would
be without a voice for four months, so I do like the ability of this body to be able
to appoint someone. And similar to how this body conducted interviews for the
County Auditor, having a similar very public process but a quick process, because
we want to make sure that every district of the Island is represented at the dais,
especially come budget period. So, I just wanted you to have that in mind as we
continue to refine this very important measure. Thank you, Chair.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Going back
to Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I just wanted to point out that there is a sentence in
here about a temporary successor with qualifications shall be appointed by the
Council. Chairperson to fill the vacancy until a successor is duly elected. So
there is something in there, I think, to make sure that people are represented. I
wanted to talk about just for a moment, Member Lee Loy's comment about
certification. I do know that when you're elected as a state representative at that
night at midnight with the final results you do take that seat of office. However,
you cannot vote on anything that's officially done by the legislature, unless you're
sworn in by the Chief Justice. Normally that occurs the third Wednesday in
January, but if there was a special session called by the Governor or by Members
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GOEAC-11 June 20,2023
of the Senator, the Speaker of the house; before you could vote you would have to
be sworn in. That is true, you would have to be sworn in.
So, I'm not sure Corporation Counsel I'm not sure about how you address the fact
that you have to be officially sworn in to do official business, but that's really
how it's done at the State Legislature. But you're still duly elected and you're
sitting in the office that night of election. It's your office you're in, you're duly
elected, but you can't do the official vote of Council's legislative business without
being sworn in. So I don't know how you would even put that in there, but there
may be something in the Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) that addresses that.
And I've never read it, but there might be something in the HRS that does say that
you are duly elected, but no official business can be taken until you're sworn in.
That might I don't know if that language would have to be in here or not, but
it's really good we're having this discussion because it's these details that we
have to work out. So I appreciate the comments, thank you. I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Any other
discussion at this time?
MS. KIMBALL: Chair.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Chair Kimball, go ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair Inaba. I just wanted to on behalf of Council
Member Lee Loy, she had to rush so she could get over there to be with you folks
in Kona. She asked me to just mention, you know, referring to this scenario we
had where Council Members get elected to State Office and subsequent
appointment. That timing issue not only pertains in terms of the possible contest
of an election to the Council Member that might be appointed to that seat but also
to the State House or Senate Representative.
So if we're looking at the now Senator Richards scenario, with respect to the
Council appointing a successor we'd have to account for the possibility of a
contest, and the certification of the results that time period needs to be accounted
for as well. In addition, I want to reflect on what Judge Strance has said about
maybe stepping back some of the specificity in this proposed Charter amendment.
You know, I'm just thinking with respect to our conversation here even it's a little
bit confusing, and I think it would be confusing on the ballot. And I think we
need to pull back some of the language, so it is more succinct and also a little bit
more clear.
I do have concerns also around what Council Member Kierkiewicz mentioned,
you know, there is that clause in there that would allow the Council Chair to
appoint a temporary successor. I just wonder about the possibility of having
within a term, three different Council Members representing in a district. And
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while that's important and it's important with respect to representation of the
community, I think there might also be challenges with just that level of
inconsistency of the possibility for three different people in a single term. So
we'll continue to support this amendment, I guess as it is. But I'm almost
thinking Council Member Evans, we have tons of time on this Charter
amendment still. I almost recommend withdrawing what you've got proposed, in
spending a little more time on the crafting and revisiting it after conversation is
done today. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Chair Kimball. I have some hesitation
about Chair being able to appoint somebody or council being able to appoint
somebody, because as was mentioned before, each of our districts elect us.
Unfortunately, historically there's been pilikia(trouble; problem; nuisance;
difficulty) around different members of the council supporting other members of
the council or not supporting them. And I think we open up a pandora's box for
potential gerrymandering. And when we assign somebody, we're making a
statement for the voters of a district, whoever that person is, we don't represent
that district, we represent the County as a whole on the Council, but I see the
opportunity for just a potential, really intensive challenges both legally and just
morally.
So those are my hesitations that are having been one of the people, you know,
who my predecessor on the Council, you know Dru Kanuha was elected to State
Office and did take office immediately. And so, the seat representing District 7
was vacant for a few months before, thankfully, I was elected in the General
Election. And I really—thankfully at the time there was great staff here that was
very able bodied. But I didn't get any negative flack or serious negative
repercussions of not having somebody on the Council for those couple of months
in the interim time. So I suppose from my personal experience, I didn't see it as
overly challenging or negatively impacting my district, bBut I do see some
potential challenges for us in opening up the opportunity for us to then assign
somebody to sit in the seat.
I also share the concern about the potential of three people representing a district,
yeah, it's a real challenging one. Because this really looks at in my mind death.
Being the most dangerous or threatening option, that would bring forth this kind
of scenario. And I don't know how much we plan for or can get out ahead of that
or how much we handle it as it happens, so not sure I'm cart horse on that. But
from my personal experience, having my predecessor being elected to the State
Senate and then not coming in myself, I didn't see major negative repercussions.
I have seen, unfortunately, community and constituent's faith in Government in
general. It's challenged enough, but to open future council's up to be vulnerable
to being judged by who they appoint or don't appoint. How well I'd like to think
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GOEAC-11 June 20,2023
the majority would be pono (to think deeply; to reflect; to gain insight), it's a can
of worms, it's a pandora box. I'm really hesitant on those things. So, thank you
for taking into consideration my mana`o on this, and for your tenacity in trying to
tackle this issue. Appreciate it, I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. I just want to point out we are a little
behind schedule, so let's keep our comments brief and we can figure out where
the introducer wants to go with this. Council Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Yeah, so briefly I do appreciate the—I do think that Section 3-4
just needs some updating. And I think some of the updating that you proposed is
excellent-but I guess I would echo Council Member Kimball in that, I think we
need to keep it simpler because of the Charter amendment factor. So I would sort
of echo that of wanting to do some changes but keep them pretty simple, and then
putting the detail into ordinance. And I really like Council Member
Kierkiewicz's concept of sort of a more public way of bringing in a new Council
Member, so it isn't some of the nightmarish possibilities of—yeah insider politics.
Those are my thoughts, thanks.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Heading back, Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: I'm just so impressed by the questions and the comments. We've
been turning on this for a while now. Other counties let the Mayor appoint, but
then you can get into all that; the Mayor appointing versus the Council. I mean
you know, eventually the question is how long do you allow a seat to sit vacant?
That's the big question, right? If you don't want to sit vacant for two, three, four
months, how do you make sure the people—there's one option that has not yet
been discussed and we could put it in Code, I think. And that is, if someone is
duly elected to a different seat and has to resign between November and
December, basically the Council can't vote on anything. You take away their
right to vote.
And the reason I'm saying that is recently we just had a bill we've passed; it
passed five, four. In this scenario, you kept doing legislation, between November
and December. You had Committee meetings, you were voting on ordinances,
and that seat did not have a vote. And that was my irk or my ire. What made me
upset is that 29,000 people; their vote was not counted when the Council was
voting on those ordinances. Now mind you people get sick, people go on
vacation, people have reasons they don't show up, but the reality is that's an
excused absence. In this instance, it's a vacant seat.
And so you could just say between that date if this scenario happens, they can't
vote. You could do that as another option. So I think it's important that we think
about this, because there's a lot of moving parts, but the bigger question is how
long do you let a seat sit vacant when there is Council action being taken. That's
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GOEAC-11 June 20,2023
the bigger question. So I really love this, I'm going to withdraw it, and come
back with another amendment. That's what I'd like to do, but I also want to offer
it to you since I believe maybe Deanna Sako is going to be here for Finance
Committee this afternoon. We could also table this until then and ask her our
questions. No, you don't want to ask her questions.
ACTING CHR. INABA: It's a different committee.
MS. EVANS: No need, okay.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Evans if you'd like to ask
Director Sako you can do that outside of this meeting, but you cannot take this up
in the Finance Committee later.
MS. EVANS: Okay.
ACTING CHR. INABA: So is it your intention to withdraw?
MS. EVANS: Yes. I'll withdraw and come back with another amendment.
ACTING CHR. INABA: So let the record reflect that Council Member Evans,
has withdrawn her motion to amend. And we're back on the main motion now,
which is to forward Bill 49 to Council with a favorable recommendation.
Wanting to check how we'd like to proceed here. I do think with future
amendments are you wanting to hold this here in committee?
MS. EVANS: I want to move this forward; I want to come up with something. I
know, I will be proposing amendments based on today's discussion. If people are
comfortable, we can move it to first reading with amendments at first reading.
And if not then we'll just postpone this until is it July 5th, and then I'll have a
communication with another amendment.
ACTING CHR. INABA: I'm thinking it's probably the committee's idea to hold
this here at committee. Just so we can have a lot of conversation, which is where
this kind of happens in committee.
MS. EVANS: Okay.
ACTING CHR. INABA: So can I get a motion please Ms. Evans to postpone
Bill 49 to our July 5th committee meeting.
Motion to Postpone: Ms. Evans moved to postpone Bill 49 to July 5, 2023.
Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada.
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GOEAC-11 June 20,2023
ACTING CHR. INABA: Any discussion? Council Member Kierkiewicz on the
postponement.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. A little bit of latitude, but it's related to
the postponement. Please take into consideration all of the great mana`o that we
have been sharing with you today. I will be supporting keeping this in committee,
because it is heavy kuleana to be advancing a Charter amendment. And I want to
make sure that it is language we get right, and that there's unanimous support for
whatever we are putting forward because that sends a very strong and important
message to our voter base. I do want to address something that you mentioned
earlier, about stopping votes or Council meetings until all seats are filled. That's
something that I cannot support, so I hope is not part of your amendment package.
And I also do want to note that there were several Charter amendments that
Council Member Aaron Chung at the time put forward, related to the director
positions for various departments like Public Works and Environmental
Management. In the Council's wisdom, they actually carried those bills forward
to discussion in January when a full and new Council was seated. So I want to let
the public know that we made sure that very important discussions, and business
decisions were made at the appropriate time. But I do not, and I don't think
Director Sako would support pausing County Government, because we have bills
to pay and a lot of the discussions that we do have, have island-wide impact.
And we're often seen as being obstructionists within government and having a lot
of bureaucracy, so I just want to make sure we're handling people's business.
Thank you, Chair, for the latitude. I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. All in favor of postponing Bill 49 to the
July 5, committee meeting say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to postpone Bill 49 to July 5, 2023, was carried
Postpone: by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba,
Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder
and Lee Loy-2.
Excused: None.
Page 22
GOEAC-11 June 20,2023
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 12:14 p.m., Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to
MENT: adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Ms. Galimba and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba,
Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder
and Lee Loy-2.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. INABA: This meeting is adjourned at 12:14 (p.m.)
Approved,,
J
g (96
Ms. Cindy Evan:, Cham (nate)
Committee on Governmental Operations
and External Affairs
CE/rk
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