HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOEAC 2023/07/05 (2022-2024) Committee on Governmental Operations
and External Affairs
12th Session
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaii
July 5, 2023
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations and
ORDER: External Affairs was called to order at 9:30 a.m., in the Council Chambers,
Hilo, by Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Vice Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Cindy Evans, Chair(via videoconference from Kona)
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Vice Chair
Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member (via videoconference from Kona)
Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (via videoconference from Kona)
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak in support of Resolution 199-23,
and came forward when called by the Chair:
Garth Yamanaka
Winston Welch, representing the Outdoor Circle.
Nathan Gaddis
Sally Mermel, representing Friends of Historic Banyan Drive.
Lorna Larsen-Jeyte, representing Friends of Historic Banyan Drive.
Laura Acasio
Scott Pauli
GOEAC-12 July 5,2023
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Moving on to our agenda, not hearing any objection
I'd like to take Resolution 199-23 out of order. Seeing no objection, Mr. Clerk.
Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members,
of Business: the following items were taken out of order:
Res. 199-23: URGES GOVERNOR JOSH GREEN, M.D., TO ISSUE AN EMERGENCY
PROCLAMATION TO PROVIDE RELIEF FOR DAMAGES, LOSSES, AND
SUFFERING AND TO PROTECT THE HEALTH, SAFETY, AND WELFARE
OF THE PEOPLE AFFECTED BY THE HAZARDOUS CONDITIONS AT
THE PROPERTY FORMERLY KNOWN AS UNCLE BILLY'S HILO BAY
HOTEL
Seeks to expedite the removal of blighted structures that pose a risk to the
community based on numerous fires, squatters, illegal activity, and security issues
that were reported since its closure in 2017.
Reference: Comm. 339
Intr. by: Ms. Lee Loy
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to recommend adoption of
Res. 199-23. Seconded by Ms. Galimba.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Seeing as I am the introducer, I'd like to at this time.
turn this meeting over to our Finance Chair Mr. Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, the Chair relinquished the chair to Mr. Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER Mahalo, Council Member,
Lee Loy. Let the record reflect I have assumed Chair of the Governmental
Operations and External Affairs Committee. Council Member Lee Loy, you want
to go ahead with your resolution?
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, thank you, Chair. I'm hopingI have invited our DLNR
(Department of Land and Natural Resources) Chair Dawn Chang. To be available
for any information and testimony. I see you on Zoom, aloha, Chair Chang.
(Note: At this time, Department of Land and Natural Resources
Chair Dawn Chang came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
MS. CHANG: Aloha.
MS. LEE LOY: I wanted to give you an opportunity, I do recognize you have a
hard stop in a few minutes here, and just share any thoughts that you have
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regarding Resolution 199, and the Department's position on this particular
resolution.
MS. CHANG: Aloha mai kakou. Council Member Lee Loy, thank you for the
Invitation, and aloha to the members of the Hawaii County Council. I did have a
hard stop at 9:50, but I think this is really important. My hard stop was to attend a
cabinet meeting, so I'll tell the Governor where I was. I'm sure he will find it, it's
okay. But thank you very much for this opportunity. Council Member
Lee Loy did ask me to provide a status update on the property formally known as
Uncle Billy's Hilo Bay Hotel, specifically in relationship to this resolution.
I would like to first say, the community has been very patient with DLNR`s best
effort to address this situation at Uncle Billy's. But since the closing of this once
iconic hotel, DLNR has struggled with addressing the overwhelming issues.
However, the conditions have gotten progressively more severe, and it is a major
public health, safety, and welfare concern. While DLNR has provided security
and enforcement, the Hawaii Island community and Hilo people in particular
deserve better. I'd like to provide you a status update on the state's most recent
actions, which are very consistent with your resolution. But probably over the
last month or so, Governor Green and Mayor Roth have been in communications,
and they are prepared, they're in the process of declaring an emergency
proclamation.
The Attorney General's Office is working with both our department and the
Governor on preparing this emergency proclamation, pursuant to Chapter 127a,
Hawaii Revised Statue, which provides emergency powers to protect public
health, safety, and welfare. The emergency proclamation will suspend certain
state laws as allowed by federal law, and the mayor's emergency proclamation
will suspend certain county laws. And these laws that are being suspended will
be utilized only to the extent necessary to quickly build a perimeter fence to
secure the property against further trespassers and to demolish the building.
The funding, I think as a previous testifier noted, well DLNR had requested
$14 million from the legislature to demolish Uncle Billys building based upon
the estimates we have received. This year we received legislator authorization
of$8 million GO bond reimbursable. The $8 million is only enough to partially
demolish the building to make it uninhabitable, hopefully remove the debris,
but depending on the proposed use, we may need additional legislative
appropriation to remove the remaining debris in subsurface utilities and
foundation.
Our engineering division is working on preparing the necessary scope of work for
a contractor to demolish the building. With the emergency proclamation, we
anticipate the contractor will take four to six months from the start to finish to
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abate any hazardous materials, including lead and asbestos, then demolish and
remove the debris.
Our DOCARE (Division of Conservation and Resources Enforcement) officers
will continue to monitor and enforce, however, due to the current unsafe
conditions, DOCARE and first responders are not being permitted to even enter
the buildings. Our State Historic Preservation division, we have been
coordinating with them as well. They've given us concurrence to install the
perimeter fence. We will be working with our communications division. Once
the emergency proclamation is signed, we will provide communications and
coordinate with the county the demolition process. We also will coordinate with
the adjoining properties Naniloa, Hilo Hawaiian Country Club regarding our
demolition schedule.
I also want to share with you some additional immediate actions that DLNR is
taking to address the public health, safety, and welfare concerns. DLNR will
continue to provide a security officer to patrol the premises, this has been
costing us about$100,000 a year. We are also in the process of contracting a
landscape contractor to cut the vegetation around the building to deter people
from entering and hiding in the building. We're also in the process this week or
last week, we may have gone out with an RFP to hire a contractor to install a
perimeter fence around the building to prevent people from entering the building.
The fence will at least provide some security to keep people out, while DLNR
proceeds on the contractor to demolish Uncle Billy's. And DOCARE will
continue to monitor the building when they receive cause.
So this is my latest update both on the actions that are being taken by the
Governor's Office, in coordination with the Mayor's Office, and our Attorney
General's Office to prepare the emergency proclamation so we can proceed
timely. In the absence of the emergency proclamation, we probably would not be
able to remove Uncle Billy's for another two years,just with the contracting and
the procurement process. So this should help relieve some of that—some of the
tension and provide the Hawaii Island and Hilo community in particular, more
expeditious relief, and then I am in conversations with Council Member Lee Loy.
I know that the county it also going to start having discussions about future uses,
both of the entire Banyan Drive area but more particularly this particular property.
So with that, that is my very quick status update. I have a 10:00 cabinet meeting,
but if there are any really quick questions, I can take it, if not I'm going to log off.
Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair Chang. Excellent, excellent, news. What I'd
like to offer is this resolution is being heard in committee. In two weeks from
now, we'll be back at the full Council, in which maybe we'll have even more
updates from you, and we could actually schedule a little bit more time. Thank
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you so much for making this a priority, all the way from Honolulu. I'll try and
see if we can get you an excuse note from the Governor's meeting.
MS. CHANG: Yes, I need a permission slip signed. Again, thank you very
much. Once again, on behalf of the department and the state, we have greatly
appreciated the patience of this community, especially the hotels that are adjacent
to it. We recognize how difficult this has been, but we are trying our best. We
believe this emergency proclamation will put us in a better position to address
the concerns. So again, mahalo, a hui hou.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair Chang. Aloha.
MS. CHANG: Aloha.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you for that support. Right now, for my colleagues, I'd
actually like to call up our Lieutenant Derr from our community policing, and
then our Fire Chief. Attached to Resolution 199 are some exhibits and, you
know, we read a lot. So I just wanted to give Police and Fire an opportunity to
summarize the exhibits and some of the information that's contained related to the
calls for service, along with the cost that it is costing our taxpayers to respond to
calls within that area. Go ahead Lieutenant Derr.
(Note: At this time, Police Lieutenant William Derr came forward to
address the members of the Committee.)
MR. DERR: Hi, everyone. I guess I'm in the hot seat now. My name is
Lieutenant Derr, I'm with the East Hawaii Community Policing Section. I
prepared an unofficial report detailing some of the statistics as best I could,
regarding what's happening on the Banyan Drive Peninsula. When I was
reviewing it to prepare for today, I realized it was very confusing and it was
actually kind of hard to read and understand what I had put on paper. So with
your indulgence, getting away from the tables and grass and stuff, I'd just like to
explain to you in a nutshell, summarize what it all means and what perspective the
Police Department has, because our agenda, our focus is public health and safety.
You know, that's our focus, that's where we're coming from.
So it was mentioned that there were 6,479 calls for service, and this is between
September 2018 to like April 12 of this year, because that's our data base that I
drew this information. That's the time frame that it covers. This number is a little
misleading. The calls for service is when somebody calls to need a Police Officer
in that area. However, police have responded more than that because officers
will be proactive, so they'll come down, initiate cases and what not. So that
number should be a little higher as far as police going down there and dealing
with things on the peninsula. That only indicates the number of times a person
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called and said, "Hey I need a Police Officer." So in reality, that number should
be a little higher as far as police going down there and taking action that kind of
thing.
The cost, basically, I was trying to decipher for the man hours that these calls for
service and what I could find would cost. It was hard to determine because
you have some officers who are brand new, so they have a lower rate. Then you
have an officer who's got 25 years, and he obviously gets paid more. So I have a
low end and a high end and that kind of explains that if it's the rookie responding,
his pay rate, that's how much it's going to cost. But what that doesn't include,
which I had a hard time factoring in, because I'm no report writing expert or
anything, and that's why I'm trying to just explain it in my terms verses getting
wrapped up in these tables and charts, which even I got confused looking at and
I did this report, right?
But that doesn't factor in the overtime. Because of manpower issues, I mean
across the board every agency has it, we have to pay officers overtime. And how
it works is when we're short we have to early in an officer, means he comes in
four hours early, does his shift, then we have to hold over officers, so they work
an extra four hours at the end of their shift. And that happens daily, daily, and we
have two, three, four officers coming in early. I couldn't factor that in because I'd
have to look at every single schedule for every week of the month, for how many
years. But that's a cost that's there but not factored into this. But in a nutshell,
it's about a half a million dollars what I was able to determine, but it's probably
higher.
But that is kind of like the ballpark figure, of what it's costing police to respond
there. The calls typically average on Banyan Drive peninsula about 45 minutes.
That's kind of an average because you have a call that may take 15 minutes, very
simple kind of call, or you may have one that takes several hours. So an example
would be a quick call, skateboarders skateboarding, the officer drives by,
skateboarders are gone, case closed. But then you may have which we've had and
I'll highlight these, we've had suicide in Uncle Billy's, we've had sexual assaults
in that building. Those calls end up taking hours upon hours, and they also take
up more than one Police Officer because in any call usually, you're going to have
two Police Officers that respond for safety reasons.
So in a call though like with a sex assault or something like that, which in the
suicides that we've had in Uncle Billy's, we may have four, five, six officers
there. So now you have that cost times five, because you're paying five officers
because they have to hold the scene. They have to do the investigation, and then
in Uncle Billy's case we have to clear that building to make sure the suspects not
in there and what not. And that is a huge safety risk because if you guys ever
been in there, that place is just incredibly dilapidated. It's just falling apart, it's
dangerous for anybody to be in there. And because of a lot of the health issues,
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because there's no sewage nothing like that, there's a huge feral cat problem that
emanates from there, and then it's going over to Lili`uokalani Gardens.
You pretty much need to be wearing a Tyvek Suit when you go in there, but we
have the officers that like for example, the sex assault, we had to find where did it
happen, so we have people holding the perimeter. We have a group of guys that
have go in there and actually find the crime scene, make sure the suspect is not
there. So the point of this is that takes hours upon hours upon hours, so it
multiplies the cost, right? So that's how we kind of have that base line, because
we have quick calls and then we have really, really, long calls. And these are
factors that are hard to monetize and quite honestly, I don't want to get into like
how much it cost and stuff because that's not the point. The point is just making
sure people on Banyan Drive are safe, that Uncle Billy's isn't used as a cover or a
place to commit crimes or encourage crimes.
And then community policing there's a concept, and it's called the crime triangle.
And you need three things to have a crime, you need a location, you need a
victim, and you need the perpetrator. And if you take one of those components
away one of the sides of the triangle away, you don't have a crime. And in this
case, if we can take the location away, then we may not have quite as many
crimes happening because Uncle Billy's provides that location for a lot of crimes
to occur. I also am anticipating that, you know the question was one of the
earlier testifiers spoke to is, there's people living in there,right? And my
response to that is first, why do we have people living in there? There shouldn't
be people living in there first off because it's trespassing, right?
And so they don't have the right to just go in there and move in, first off. Second
off, given the health and safety issues, because the building is crumbling. Lord
knows what kind of diseases and stuff are going there because when they shut off
the electricity and stuff, now the sewage doesn't work. You know, where is
basically all the human waste and stuff going? What are they doing with that,
right? It' s going into the ocean, it's just going into the ground next to the hotels
or out on the street, we don't know. We have the feral cats, and then that coupled
with the lead paint, the asbestos, all the toxic materials that are falling, raining
down from the ceilings and stuff, it's almost cruel in my opinion to let people
stay in there because they're essentially being poisoned by being in there.
What the solution is to that as far as the people who are staying there, the
relocation and whatnot, I don't know what the answer is to that. That's like the
million-dollar question as far as what to do. But my perspective is it seems even
more cruel to let people stay in there and live in there because who knowsI
mean the conditions are just awful. I think being in the bushes is better than being
in that building, honestly, because it's awful, it's decrepit.
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I just wanted to bring that up because that is an issue that needs to be dealt with in
the planning of hopefully getting rid of Uncle Billy's and demolishing it. But I
know it is a real harbor for the criminal element, and it does take up a lot of
resources. But again, for me, it's not about the money, how much the police
spends or whatever, but it's about providing what's safe for the community, the
neighboring hotels, whatnot, and the people who are actually living in there
squatting in there. It's for their benefit too because we're not doing anybody any
favors by allowing people to be in there because they're going to get sick and
poisoned. You know, we have the Outdoor Circle people. I know this doesn't
directly relate to trees, but what's going into the ocean from that place, right? All
the human feces and all that, and the hazardous materials, the lead paint, the
asbestos, and whatever. If it's continued because then we end up poisoning the
ground around it and the ocean. So that's kind of my perspective on it. I'm open
to any questions you guys have, I'm an open book.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Lieutenant Derr. And just as a reminder, Lieutenant
Derr serves as our Community Policing Officer Supervisor. So in addition to this
work, he's getting a lot of feedback from not only Police but our community
Policing Officers. I'd also like to call our Fire Chief forward because he provided
the information regarding Exhibit B, and similarly, if he could just summarize for
my colleagues. After that I'd love to yield the floor and just open it up to
questions, for my colleagues, that they may have regarding this resolution, and
any information contained within the exhibits. Chief Todd, go ahead.
(Note: At this time, Fire Chief Kazuo Todd came forward to address the
the members of the Committee.)
MR. TODD: Hey, how's it going? So we provided a similar unofficial report
that matches the format that Police did,just because Police did and we figured
we'd look the same as them. We like to work together, right? So we give you a
whole range of information in there about the whole peninsula, calls over the last
five years and some estimated cost and everything. You know, the reason we're
here is because of Uncle Billy's, 87 Banyan Drive. So if you look in the second
page of that exhibit, we actually drilled down to some of that data. And the
reality is as far as Fire is concerned, there isn't quite the medical calls or the other
issues that we would go out for normally. In fact, the only thing we really
responded to that particular location for has been fire, primarily.
And so while there's cost and everything else in there, that isn't really an
adequate picture for Fire Department response and the issue that building poses
from a fire perspective. It is a multistory structure full of compostables, that has
squatters that are starting fires. From the Fire Department perspective, the
document we're giving you gives some great information, but isn't quite
indicative of the hazard that particular building holds. These squatters that are in
there have started multiple fires. We have evidence of it, some of which we
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responded to and some which we did not respond to, like they either self-
extinguish and no one called because it was in the middle of the night or other
things were going on. But lots of evidence on sight of people being there, and
also being fire bugs, bringing shopping carts and literally making little bon fires in
the middle of the lobby in a shopping cart, or things like that.
So the problem that when we look at it from the police perspective, is that if this
building fully ignites and starts running, it is not only a hazard to the two
buildings next to it, but it's a hazard to my firefighters that would be responding.
And we've already had one pretty significant fire at that location burn through the
lobby, roofing area transitioned into multiple stories of this structure, and we had
to bring everything we had in Hilo to put that thing out. So the sooner we can get
a fence around that building, get it demolished and get it to become not a location
in the triangle, that would be a good thing. And I'm open to any questions or any
concerns that you might have as far as the fire perspective on this.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Chief Todd. And again, thank you to both of you and
both Fire and Police for all the work you guys do in this area. For right now, I'm
going to yield to my colleagues and any questions they may have regarding this
resolution or any of the attached information.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER Mahalo, Council Member
Lee Loy. Going to floor, Council Members. Council Member Kagiwada, go
ahead.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Thank you all for being here, and thank
you to the maker for this, it's really important. I fully support it going forward. I
just want to make sure that we have an adequate plan in place so that we are not
dispersing people who are living there. They're obviously extremely desperate if
they're living in such a horrible situation. And so can we make sure that part of
the plan, and especially if we're about to put up fencing right now, is that we
reach out to our community services and make sure they have time to go over
there and offer services that may be needed, whether it's BISAC (Big Island
Substance Abuse Council) or Hope Services or whatever. Also, it seems like if
there's a major feral cat issue, if there's anything we can do around that to make
sure that those cats then don't get distributed to Lili`uokalani and the surrounding
areas.
I think that's probably my biggest comment here is just to make sureI mean if
we could, as part of this emergency proclamation, get something like Hale
Hanakahi that they did, get some emergency sheltering for people, then could help
people move out into more permanent shelters. I think that would be super
helpful. Otherwise, I'd just worryI mean you're saying that oh, you know, they
may be better off in the bushes, but I'm sure the hotels there don't want people
living in the bushes next to the hotels. And I know that downtown Hilo, cannot
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really respond to having more people who don't have homes living in the
downtown area. So I really hope that we look at a plan before that fencing goes
up, at least getting our community services out there to offer what they can. But
hopefully, also doing something around some temporary housing and getting
people into services.
So hope we can do that, and I will be reaching out to DLNR just to let them know
my feelings on this part because it sounds like they're doing a lot of the
coordinating. But hopefully, our Mayor can also work with them to coordinate
with our local community services. Thank you all for being here and putting this
good resolution together, much needed. I'll be supporting.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER Mahalo, Council Member
Kagiwada. Looking around the room here, Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder. Council
Member Lee Loy, I'm going to be supporting this whole heartedly. You know, I
think Nate Gaddis had mentioned earlier that this cannot be the end all be all. I
see this as another spark to continue to advance the conversation about cleaning
up Banyan Drive and revitalizing that peninsula. I think interest in the topic
really generated when Jim McCully's name was advanced to the Banyan Drive
Redevelopment Agency. And I really hope that the Mayor's Office is out there
identifying individuals, so that we can fully staff that agency. Because to Council
Member Kagiwada's point about ensuring that there's coordination among non-
profit county/state actors, I really see them as playing a leadership role in making
sure all of those community and business concerns are addressed.
I see that Gordon Height is here from DLNR. Gordon, I don't know if you're just
here in an observer capacity, or if you're able to answer questions. I'm hoping
it's the latter. I'm hoping that you have a little bit more information, based on
some of the great updates that Chair Chang was able to provide us earlier. Are
you able to come forward? Is that a yes, Gordon? Just an observer? Okay. Well
perhaps for the next time we convene on this resolution, I know that Chair Chang
was able to speak to how expeditious the state is going to be working to address
Uncle Billy's. But I want to know about when they're going to get started, when
is this emergency proclamation going to be issued? Because we all support it, and
it's been years. It's been years of mismanagement, and neglect by the state that
we are not going to overlook.
And so it's great to say publicly that you commit, but we absolutely want to
make sure that we are invited to the day the proclamation is going to be
announced. That date needs to be identified so that we know that the state is
actually putting some teeth and meaning behind these nice words and great
intentions. There is a huge strain on our county resources that are happening, and
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that was well illustrated by Lieutenant Derr and Chief Todd. It is essential that
we address this issue, not just for tourist, I'm kama`aina, we are all residents.
There were so many families that were at Reeds Bay yesterday enjoying that
beautiful venue for 4h of July. It's for them, it's to make sure that our residents
have a beautiful, healthy, gorgeous place to go.
It's about taking care of those exceptional trees. I run through them all the time,
whenever I'm running to Keaukaha and back. I park at Lili`uokalani because it's
beautiful, run through Banyan Drive, and it pains me to see sometimes people
living in there, to see trash. It's shame, it's embarrassing, and no more. We need
to make sure that we are holding DLNR's feet to the fire, and we will work with
them, we will collaborate them. And unfortunately, it takes these types of
conversations and resolutions to get the attention of people in power and let them
know, no more. We're not going to stand for it, and we absolutely need your
support, and to step up and take care of your kuleana. So anything that you need
from me or the Council, Councilwoman Lee Loy, we are here to support, whether
it's making calls, sending emails, flying to Oahu to implore the governor and the
Legislature to act, we are here to support. Thank you, Chair.
I yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Member.
Going to Kona.
MS. EVANS: Chair?
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Council Member Evans, go
ahead.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. Is Corporation Counsel, Betsy Strance, or someone
else ?
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: She's nodding her head no, she's
not here. She is, she's coming up right now, Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Good, okay. So on her way up there I want to thank our introducer
Council Member Lee Loy. This is really, really, nice to see this. I read the
testimony from the Representative Mark Nakashima, and Representative
Richard Onishi on this. And their frustration of trying to bring forth something on
this effort and not getting any headway with Legislature. It's always been dying.
Every time they try something, it doesn't go anywhere. So I'm really excited
about this, as possibly an opportunity to move it forward. So good morning,
Betsy Strance.
My question is kind of more in the weeds and the details. So we're asking the
governor to do an emergency proclamation. And I suspect he will call the mayor
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and ask the mayor what's the mayor's take on this, and is the mayor—so what
would the mayor's role—does the mayor, in this type of situation, can he issue his
own proclamation that dovetails and supports the governor's proclamation? Like
sometimes we start stuff at the county level and then it jumps over to the governor
level when we do these emergency proclamations. Is there a role that the mayor
could play to really support this particular resolution?
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. STRANCE: Thank you. Good morning, Elizabeth Strance, Corporation
Counsel. The short answer is yes. The broader context would be the emergency
proclamation that I think is envisioned, is really a tool for the governor to suspend
certain state laws to expedite the process. Should the county also need or desire
to suspend laws to move the project forward, that would be within the authority of
the mayor. But I think we need to see what the governor has in mind, because
I'm not clear what laws are intended to be suspended.
So during the presentations, I made a note to myself to follow up with the
Attorney General's Office and the Mayor's Office since there were statements
made about a coordinating function, and your colleagues also highlighted the need
for there to be some coordination, so that if the state acts they're not unintended
or anticipated consequences that the county would need to respond to. So I do
think that there's a broader conversation to be held to make that determination,
but the short answer is yes.
MS. EVANS: So if the governor pass the emergency proclamation, he's only
impacting—it was kind of implied that it might impact county regulations as well
as state regulations, and now I'm hearing this comment. So it sounds like maybe
the emergency proclamation will only impact state regulations. Do we need a
little more research on that to understand?
MS. STRANCE: We do need to look at it a little bit further. For example, the
first COVID proclamations that were issued by the state, seem to encompass
county operations as well. And so depending upon how the proclamation is
written, the county can then determine whether it needs an emergency response as
well, or whether it can respond to the proclamation, within the parameters of
existing laws and regulations.
MS. EVANS: Okay. That's good to understand because I think we need all-
hands-on-deck, old saying, if we're going to get this done. And I'd love to hear
from the mayor, or Managing Director Lee Lord on how they are going to
participate in making this happen because I do think all hands are on deck. And I
really appreciate Member Kagiwada's comments about again, all-hands-on-deck.
I mean squatters end up at Uncle Billy's because they need a place, they need a
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place to be. So how do we all collectively work that together? It'd be fascinating.
For me, as a Council Member, I'm so supportive of this. I just want to make sure
we really get it passed the finish line. So thank you so much, thank you,
Corporation Counsel Strance. I yield, Chair.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council
Member Evans.
MS. VILLEGAS: Chair?
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Council Member Villegas, go
ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. I'd also just like to start off by thanking Council
Member Lee Loy, for bringing this forward and for putting the time and effort
into in bringing in the head of DLNR today. That was very insightful and helpful
to get a broader understanding on what has happened, and what still needs to
happen, and how this piece of legislation brings alignment, ideally between state
and county government in executing this process. I also appreciate the comments
by Council Member Kagiwada, to giving kind of a heads up to our homeless
services organizations, that they take this opportunity to take the initiative to
begin doing outreach, and actually going and meeting these people where they're
at.
Having more experience dealing with squatters than I would like, sometimes
there is a perception that they are there out of desperation. Oftentimes, it's out of
opportunity, and removing the opportunity in unhealthy areas and situations that
are not only unhealthy for them, but for the long-term health and safety of our
community, becomes one of the greatest gifts we can give to them and our
community. So I just really want to throw in my support and kind of get that
word out there for those that have the capacity to prioritize actual outreach to
these areas, that it's very well known that they are people, and in some of the
incidents are predating. It's predatorial behavior in areas that are known to be
unhealthy and unsafe.
As our Fire Department and Police Department have shared, unfortunately, then
becomes literally breeding grounds for illegal activities and unsafe and unsavory
occurrences. And so removing the temptation of this being a potential spot for
those kinds of activities and providing authentic outreach, and there are millions
of dollars in the pipeline right not. And there are other places even for short-term
rentals that are available. So I am hopeful that there can be synchronicity and
alignment in these efforts between county and state and our homeless outreach
services to utilize the funds that are there, to find healthier safer places for our
community, and at the same time, restoring this incredibly historic, really
amazing piece of property.
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I just really appreciated listening to everybody's talking about the trees there and
how much just the sense of place created by the foliage and fauna that we have in
those areas, not to include the feral cats. Unfortunately, that's another
organization that can be drawn in. So we can be planning and strategically
aligning the people and organizations who are so passionate about mitigating
these challenging circumstances. So thank you for every body's testimony today,
and for the support. And I will be 100 percent supporting the passage of this
resolution today. And with that I yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Member.
Any further discussion from Kona? Hearing none, Council Member Galimba, go
ahead.
MS. GALIMBA: Just super briefly, want to thank Council Member Lee Loy for
bringing this resolution forward and fully support it. I guess my contribution
would be sort of looking forward, that we coordinate with the DLNR lease terms,
and also the new agencies, so that lease terms or whatever kind of instrument we
will be using does not allow this situation to happen again going forward. And
with that I yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Member.
Council Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. Yeah, I'll just lend my support along with all of my
colleagues. Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy, for putting this forth, I think
it's definitely something that all of us can get behind. I wanted to tap into
something that Lieutenant Derr said and thank you for getting all this background
together beforehand. But one of the things that caught my attention was the
mention of the environmental hazards of this situation as it exists now. And I just
wanted to highlight that because with an emergency proclamation, one of the
things that may be waived are environmental assessments and things like that.
And my assessment of the situation as it stands right now, is that the hotel
presents an environmental hazard, not just from the folks occupying that space,
but potentially from the asbestos, the lead, and everything else with a dilapidated
elderly building like that. So want to add the support for addressing this issue in
addition to the public safety, but in relation to the potential environmental hazard
that exists now. Thank you for putting this forward. Happy to support.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Any further
discussion? Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: If I might wrap it up. Thank you so much to my colleagues, I am
listening very intently, and keep in mind, because we have one more hearing at
the Council, I think there are some refinements that I could drop in, including
kind of a next step, bulleted as another whereas clause. Really thank all of my
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colleagues for the great input along with our testifiers. I think there's areas that I
could expand for our outdoor circle community to be included as stakeholders in
this conversation. I'm just sitting here reflecting on a quote of, you know, a
journey of a million miles or a thousand miles starts with one step, and this really
was intended to be the one step.
Keep in mind though, I have thought through a lot of these things as far as what
does emergency powers do as far as truncating the process? What do we do with
individuals, who are unhoused in that area? What do we do with our construction
debris? These are all conversations I've been having on my own, but now it's
ripe to have them and engage our stakeholders. Because I also heard our
community partners have access to other money,which is something that
government can't do by itself. We can't pay for it all. And so inviting our
community partners into these spaces and where they can lean in with
philanthropic dollars to help not only remove a hazard, but also bring it back to
the glory that we would love to see.
And in addition to that, and I just got a key in on something Council Member
Kimball mentioned about truncating the environmental process. And I bet she
would clearly agree that oftentimes when you do an environmental assessment,
you have to identify the impact and the mitigated measures, and what I would find
really interesting is doing nothing is a bigger impact. And the mitigated measures
that would come forward through demolition is how we solve for this one.
And then finally, you know, my colleague, Ms. Kierkiewicz, mentioned I think,
that establishment of our Banyan Drive Redevelopment Agency would be a
perfect conduit to invite members of the outdoor circle, our Police and Fire
Community along with DLNR, to serve as that space for all of our businesses and
all of our community partners to engage, not only what this resolution would do,
but what a future Banyan Drive could have. So thank you to my colleagues for
their support, and look forward to moving this forward, and even other news that
Chair Chang may have when we get to the Council for final reading. I yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Member
Lee Loy. Seeing no further discussion from the Council, I'd like to express my
support for this resolution as well. I do appreciate the overview from Ms. Chang
this morning. I think that was very helpful, as well the reports from Police and
Fire. One thing I would recommend would be Maurice Messina's comments
from Parks and Rec. I know he's been saying over the past three, four, years, his
staff has been impacted heavily, by the folks staying and using the amenities,
Coconut Island and the different showers and that to bath and clean, because
that's what you need, running water,place to sleep. I would like to see
Mr. Messina's comments on that from his staff, his impact on his agency.
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And then just talking to our friends who joined us this morning. I've been helping
K.T. to organize our Christmas in the park event, and I can see something very
beautiful on Banyan Drive in the future if we can all put our heads together. It
has an amazing potential to be something beautiful. I just picture Christmas lights
and lights along the trees and getting everyone coordinated towards something,
some kind of annual event. It could be beautiful; the potential is amazing.
Having visited other countries and done different events, different places different
times, we have the potential to make that area beautiful if we so choose. And part
of that is doing things like this, so we can get everyone behind it and moving in
the same direction. I really look forward to seeing what happens with this
movement, hopefully this urge is enough to get everyone moving in the right
direction so we can accomplish something beautiful at Banyan Drive.
To Ms. Kierkiewicz's point, our residents and our tourism sector, we need both,
and this area is, I mean it's one of our few hotel areas. And if our visitors and our
residents don't feel safe at night here, then we're doing something wrong. I do
work with a few agencies and non-profits who work with sex trafficking victims,
and we have had a number of trafficking incidents at this particular area and in
different forms. That is something that should be highlighted, given our placing
of importance on that issue in our community and across the world.
There definitely is a need for some quick movement at Uncle Billy's location. So
I'll be supporting this today. Thank you very much, Council Member Lee Loy,
for bringing this forward, and I look forward to seeing what happens in Council,
maybe some more input from different folks. Beautiful, okay. We do have the
motion on the floor to forward Resolution 199-23 to Council with a favorable
recommendation. All in favor?
Vote on Res. 199-23: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 199-23 was
(Approved) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba,
Inaba, Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Acting
Chair Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: And that takes us to the
end of resolutions. Let's go back to Communication 335 please.
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Comm. 335: NOMINATION OF TREY LIVINGSTON TO THE LEEWARD PLANNING
COMMISSION
From Mayor Mitchell D. Roth, dated June 15, 2023, requesting the Council's
review and confirmation.
Requires Council
Confirmation by: July 29, 2023 (Section 13-4(k),
Hawaii County Charter
Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to recommend confirmation of the
nomination of Mr. Trey Livingston to the Leeward Planning
Commission. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Council Members, we have
today joining us, Ms. Bartolome from the Mayor's office and Mr. Livingston.
Ms. Pomai Bartolome, go ahead.
(Note: At this time, Executive Assistant Pomaikai Bartolome and
nominee Trey Livingston came forward to address the members of the
Committee.)
MS. BARTOLOME: Yes, good morning. On behalf of Mayor Roth, I am
pleased to be nominating Mr. Trey Livingston of South Kona to the Leeward
Planning Commission. Trey was born and raised here on Hawaii Island, in
Captain Cook area to be exact, and he is a graduate of Konawaena High School.
He's also aif you looked at the letter that I submitted, he is a brilliant, young
man, yeah, who has obtained his Master of Science degree in Geospatial Science,
and I'm not to lie, I had to google that, and Land Use Planning and Recreation.
Additionally, he earned his Bachelor of Science degree in Geospatial Science with
a minor in Spanish.
So he is here today. He's currently a realtor and has been since 2019. And I am
going to allow him to be able to share a little bit more about himself and the
reason that he chose to serve on the Leeward Planning Commission and what he
feels he can bring to this commission. And if he is chosen and confirmed to
serve, he will serve a term ending December 31, 2027, and your favorable
confirmation is requested. So, mahalo.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Bartolome.
Mr. Livingston, go ahead.
MR. LIVINGSTON: Thank you for that very nice introduction. I'm really
excited to be here. About three years ago, I'm not sure how the Planning
Commission got on my radar, but I became interested in it and then I started
watching the YouTube videos of the meetings and my interest only grew.
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Through surfing, I know Commissioner Vitousek and I got to know him, and
we've talked about some of the challenges with the commission, the amount of
prep that is required before each meeting, so I'm very aware of the time and
dedication required. And then through the meetings, I've developed the
confidence that I am qualified and prepared to do this position. I think my
education speaks for that as well as my experience as a realtor. I've become very
familiar with the CDP (Community Development Plan), General Plan,permitted
uses table, things like that I've notice throughout the meetings, having that
knowledge at hand would be very beneficial. So I'd really appreciate your
favorable recommendation. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Livingston. Council
Members? Let's go to Kona first.
MS. VILLEGAS: Aloha Trey, thank you for being here. It's not all that often
that I get to go, "Yeah, Konawaena Wildcat." So congratulations, I myself
graduated from Konawaena. So while you have a very impressive resume and I
appreciate you acknowledging and recognizing some of the interesting balance
necessary in working in the real estate industry and working in land planning, but
your focus in getting a masters in that arena says a lot. I believe you have yeah,
land-use planning and recreation. A quick question, is Livingston Realty, who
you work for, is that your family's real estate brokerage?
MR. LIVINGSTON: Yes, that's—my dad would be the principal broker, my
mom and sister are also agents. I'm a broker as well and we have a couple other
agents who have, over the years basically, become family. There's seven of us.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay, great. I recognize the name and was just putting that
together. You know, historically, it would be my recommendation that you serve
on the Kona Community Development Plan Action Committee before jumping
straight into the Leeward Planning Commission. It is an incredibly important
commission, especially for the west side of the Big Island where we are
continually faced with some challenging land use opportunities, some historical
challenges and imbalances, especially at a time when we are—we find ourselves
really short on infrastructure and at capacity.
So I also recognize that you live in district 6 so I'm interested to hear from
Council Member Galimba on her recommendations here. But I do recognize and
I see the fact that you have a masters in Land Use Planning and Recreation. I
think it's something we could really use in our Leeward Planning Commission as
somebody who's formally trained in Planning and who has a vested history here,
you know, being from the Big Island and being from this side of the island. So
yeah, I'm interested to hear what the recommendations of my colleagues will be,
and I am incredibly impressed by all that you have accomplished already and
have no doubt that there is so much more in store for you.
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And so, yeah, thank you for your willingness to serve and I do appreciate
Mr. Vitousek's ability to help harvest candidates from surfing companionship. In
that time in the ocean that we spend together is very grounding and soothing, and
behaviors as we share waves and share time in the sea become reflections of how
we can operate together in the other capacities of our lives. So I have a great
appreciation for that. So thank you so much and I look forward to hearing the
comments of the rest of my colleagues.
MR. LIVINGSTON: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Member. Council
Member Galimba. I apologize for not taking you first.
MS. GALIMBA: No, it's fine. It's appropriate to go over in Kona. So yeah,
thanks for stepping up and being willing to serve. I know I met you over Zoom, I
believe just when I started and you were the Government Affairs Chair for the,
was it Chamber of Commerce?
MR. LIVINGSTON: For the West Hawaii Association of Realtors. I was just
the Government Affairs Liaison.
MS. GALIMBA: Right. Yeah, we had a really nice conversation. I guess, you
know, you do have a very impressive background and I think would bring a lot to
the position. I guess I was just going to ask maybe you could elaborate a little bit
more sort of from a planning perspective on Kona, South Kona. What are your
thoughts about that?
MR. LIVINGSTON: Yeah, thank you. I think I have a lot I get a lot of
interaction with clients on what they want to do with their properties and then I
have a big imagination myself so I'm very envious of Hilo's Banyan Drive. I
wish Kona had something similar along Alii Drive.
I think personally growing up in South Kona and living in South Kona where
everything is zoned agriculture, that can be beneficial but it can also be very
limiting. I think it has been applied kind of in a blanket way. We've got some
land that's agriculture, but it's even hard to raise goats on it. So I think we can
properly allocate our resources better, and I think the Planning Commission is a
good place to do that when applicants come forward with zoning changes, things
like that. We can evaluate where the project is taking place and if it's appropriate,
maybe the zoning doesn't quite match, maybe it's in the middle of a lava field but
it's still agricultural and they want to change to something more residential, I
think we should be open to considering those situations. So I think that would be
my vision on a grander level.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Council Member Evans, your mic is on.
Excuse me, I'm sorry. Council Member Galimba, go ahead.
MS. GALIMBA: Well, that's an yeah, I mean I think that is very, very true.
That is a problem, I think, throughout the island that we—as far as like the overall
state land use categories and zoning, everything has kind of got thrown into
agriculture, which has it'sI mean in some ways made sense at the time when,
you know, plantation, agriculture, was everywhere. So it did make a certain
amount of sense and it's come back to bite us, I think, in many, many instances
here.
I think we, Chair Kimball and I, are actually working on a situation where it's
different but I think relevant. I mean it's down in Miloli`i where we have, in the
past, there were some subdivision practices that were maybe not as thoughtful as
they should have been, and so have a residential subdivision of 900 lots on black
rock lava next to the ocean, and obviously, wouldn't be good for that to be
agricultural. But also, very problematic to have that many houses that close to the
ocean with the very porous nature of the ground there. So lots to think about as
far as sustainability and also correcting some of the mistakes of the past.
So I mean I do appreciate sort of your background and the thoughtfulness that it
can bring, and I'm sure you will learn a lot as you go through the process of being
on the Leeward Planning Commission. So I will be supporting your nomination.
MR. LIVINGSTON: Thank you. I think Miloli`i is a great example of kind of
how the Planning Commission could have, if it'd been there back in the day,
maybe avoided that whole situation becoming what it is where we have this
density removed from infrastructure and other amenities so the community needs
of that size.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Member Galimba.
Council Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, and thank you for putting your name forward. It's
always nice to see another GIS (Geographic Information System) enthusiast. I
don't know if you know we're hiring, so if you don't want to do this there are
positions actually doing GIS for the County, but that aside, two questions for you.
As you may be aware, Council Member Kierkiewicz and I have been working on
short-term vacation rental legislation that will come before the Planning
Commission, so I'd be curious on your thoughts about the role of short-term
vacation rentals in our overall community make up.
MR. LIVINGSTON: Thank you. I think the short-term vacation rental ordinance
and really everything around it is kind of a great way for us to segway into more
affordable housing, but also addressing our lack really of long-term rentals. I've
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got a lot of friends who have grown up here or moved here and typically, like
when I was in the Air Force and I moved, I found an apartment. I didn't move
into a home myself, but we don't have a lot of that in Kona and I think kind of
creating more inventory for the long-term market would be amazing. It seems
like that's the goal of the ordinance or the direction it's headed.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, we can't go into too much right now until it's been
introduced but it certainly driven by the housing market issues. My second
question relates to something that has come up frequently in my district but also is
relevant to South Kona as well. What do you think is the role you said you're
familiar with the CDP. What is the role, in your mind, of the CDP with respect to
decision making within the Planning Commission?
MR. LIVINGSTON: I think as a commissioner, you have to evaluate the plan
and make sure that it aligns with the CDP. I certainly shouldn't say I've read the
CDP because it is a large document, but I reference it. And I think taking the time
in knowing what is in there, which I feel like I do to the point where I could
review an application and then reference the CDP in a timely manner, is critical.
So I don't know how to specifically answer that question, other than I'm
confident in my awareness of the CDP and how it's organized to be able to use it
efficiently.
MS. KIMBALL: Because my question is more directed in terms of how do you
think it should be factored into the decision making with respect to the
commission's actions? The community-based development plans.
MR. LIVINGSTON: Since it's so community driven and developed, I think it
should be one of the more significant factors in processing any application and
making sure if there's alignment with the CDP, then the people have kind of
spoken that that's what they would desire the community to look like, so lean
heavily on it.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you, thank you for that. Yeah, appreciate you
being here, happy to support your nomination going forward, particularly with the
support of your district Council Member.
Wanted to highlight, actually, in terms of the comment that Council Member
Galimba made with respect to Miloli`i and that area. We do have a presentation,
and maybe this is something you can share with the rest of the commission,
coming in August from Greg Asner about their land to rich to reef study and land
planning recommendations based on that, which I think would be really relevant,
particularly for the South Kona area but for the west side in general. So hopefully
some of the commissioners from the Leeward Commission can participate and
listen to that session.
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MR. LIVINGSTON: Sounds fascinating. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Councill Member. Council
Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Hola, que tal, como estas.
MR. LIVINGSTON: Muy bien.
MS. LEE LOY: Muy bien, muy bien. Well, first of all, absolutely in support of
your nomination. I'm going to one up my colleague with a Konawaena graduate.
My daughter is an alum of Flagstaff so go Lumberjacks.
MR. LIVINGSTON: Alright, yeah.
MS. LEE LOY: I wanted to ask you a question and maybe kind of lean in on
your subject matter expertise around geospatial kind of analysis and a follow-up
question to my colleague, Ms. Kimball's question about the CDPs. Absolutely
love those guiding principles from community that are housed within our
community development plan, but oftentimes, these lofty goals from community
don't have a price tag attached to it or the price tag is incredibly high, in which
government will find a challenge to kind of meet, right, the desires of community.
And I was just wondering if you've given any thought to trying to provide some
of that spatial analysis about those goals, the cost, and actually maybe leaning in
on where development could actually be more ripe across all of our leeward area
and then maybe other areas that are maybe not so ready for it. Any thoughts
around that?
MR. LIVINGSTON: Sure, I think I'd like to bring up, as part of my masters, I
did a practicum rather than a thesis and I worked with Hawaii Island Land Trust
and I used a variety of documents like the CDP and the LUPAG (Land Use
Pattern Allocation Guide) maps, the land study bureaus, soil classifications and
things. The point of the project with Hawaii Island Land Trust was to create a
framework using GIS software to help them identify properties that they wanted
to preserve. For the project, since it was just a proof of concept to develop the
framework, I just did North and South Kona and I provided them a map, ranking
properties so there's a visual display of that as well as a table. And I think that
kind of aligns with the, I think principle one maybe of the CDPs talks about
natural resources and preserving those.
MS. LEE LOY: Great, I love that thought process. I think oftentimes, you know,
we try to meet the goals of community when really, it's who's saying it loudest
when really, it's just a lot more challenging when we actually focus on where the
resources are, what we want to protect, and/or vice versa, right? Where our
sewers, our water, our roads are and how we enhance that to provide what you
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mention is this suite of options when it comes to housing, right? Going from a
dorm room to an apartment to a studio to, you know, a rental, to your own home.
So thank you so much for volunteering out on the water there to this commission.
Completely support your nomination. I yield.
MR. LIVINGSTON: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Member. Back to
Kona.
MR. INABA: Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mr. Inaba, go ahead.
MR. INABA: Good morning, Mr. Livingston. First question overall, what do
you see as your primary kuleana serving on the Leeward Planning Commission?
MR. LIVINGSTON: Good morning. I think my primary kuleana would be I've
got this interest, this desire to help community. I've done, as an Air Force
member, I was already in the service so I kind of have this desire to participate,
and I've got this expertise and this experience that's been growing, and I want to
apply that. I think sometimes we go out and we get these degrees and maybe they
don't directly correlate to what we're doing, and I'm excited to have that
opportunity to do that and to do it on a commission that is very practical. It's very
busy and challenging, but I can actual affect with something I spent years in the
making on. So giving back would be a way to summarize it maybe.
MR. INABA: Okay and then you kind of touched on it earlier with regards to
development in South Kona. Could you elaborate a little bit more about what you
see for the future of development in South Kona?
MR. LIVINGSTON: I think there's not much large-scale development that we
will see in South Kona. I think we're limited by water, primarily. The zoning is
also a limiting factor because so much of it is agricultural, and it's really nice that
way. It's kind of the culture, it's the essence of South Kona, and I don't think
people want to see that change. I don't think that large development aligns so
much down there. I think we'll just see kind of a continual piecemeal
development, property by property, and it does feel like there's a lot of energy in
North Kona out towards the airport, and then surrounding Waikoloa, I think we're
going to see some large things going up. Today, I saw the Kaloko Heights
affordable housing project going up Hina Lani. It was progressing well, so that
was pretty cool to see. They've more than broke ground. But to answer your
question, South Kona, it's going to be a slow development.
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MR. INABA: Okay, and knowing that as a commissioner you'll have a say or
will be making recommendations on zoning throughout west Hawaii, when
applications come before you specific to that region, what are your thoughts, or
how do you anticipate balancing what you kind of said was the desire of the
community for it to remain that way and any of those creative ideas you
mentioned earlier?
MR. LIVINGSTON: I think with South Kona specifically, the SMA (Special
Managment Area) authority with the Planning Commission comes into play. A
lot of Kealakekua and the Napo`opo`o is in the SMA, so it'll be interesting to see
how or what applications come forward with regards to that and the shoreline
setbacks. But it'll really be, I think in South Kona, it'll be application by
application. I don't think you could apply kind of a broad statement to it.
MR. INABA: Recently, we passed a bill that requires zoning extension request,
initial request to come directly to the Council with approval being granted via
resolution. What are your thoughts on providing these conditions to those who
are requesting change of zone and more importantly, ensuring that these
conditions are given a timeframe for completion?
MR. LIVINGSTON: I think that's fascinating and I've noticed that on the
commission meetings over the last year or so, is there's a lot of people coming
forward with expired applications or permits and they're asking for renewals.
And the commission has really done a good job in holding them to the fire. "Why
didn't you renew this when you had the chance?" And I'd like to kind of continue
what the commission has established with that, and we've seen them add fairly
strict conditions in those situations where if somebody wasn't able to complete
the project the first time within the timeframe and they didn't apply for an
extension, you know, we need to look at them and their project critically. We
shouldn't just approve any extension that comes our way. We don't want people
just banking on any, I lost the word but when you store up entitlements to a
developer. Land bank, yeah.
MR. INABA: Okay, so in general, are you supportive of making sure that
applicants have timeframes in which they need to complete the conditions of their
approval?
MR. LIVINGSTON: Absolutely. I think a goal without a timeframe is just a
dream.
MR. INABA: Great. And last question for now, as you move forward, you
know, and if you're confirmed by the Council, how will you work to separate
your professional services and your professional work from the work of the
Leeward Planning Commission?
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MR. LIVINGSTON: I think that will be fairly simple for me. I possibly handle
10 to 20 transactions a year of the tens of thousands of sales that go through on
the island. fl for some reason a client or former client was in front of the
commission, I would recuse myself. And then if there was any opportunity or any
application that kind of fell in the cracks, I'd consult with the Corporation
Counsel and get clarity on it if it was a situation that required a recusal.
MR. INABA: Alright, thank you very much. Chair, I yield at this time.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Member Inaba.
Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Yes, thank you. Good morning. Thank you, Trey, for putting in
your application, I really am impressed with your skillsets that you bring to this. I
really have some questions though and some concerns. You did make a comment
that you would treat each application individually, and yet you're very, very
conscious about the General Plan and the CDPs. Now the General Plan right now
hasn't been updated in years and it's going through that process and also the
CDPs, you know, a lot of people would like to see them more updated.
I guess my concern is I think the community in your area, and I may be wrong,
but since I've been here since December, I get the impression that people are
really concerned about storm water runoff, about the treatment of wastewater,
about the ability of having drinking water, and also traffic and roads. If you go
out from Kona to the—and drive through the south part of Kona through Keauhou
and going south, the traffic, I hear about it personally from people I know that live
there. They just can't believe how long it takes to drive south, in and out town.
And so knowing that there's already some kind of quality of life issues that is
being questioned by the community, and I think fairly loudly what I've heard here
in the chambers, how would you balance that if someone came and said, "Well,
I've owned this property for many years and I want to subdivide it and the zoning
base, it's whatever the zoning would allow me to come in for a subdivision."
How would you find yourself balancing the persons right, supposedly, under the
Zoning Code that they could apply for the subdivision, versus the community
really crying loudly that there's some real problems in the south. How would you
deal with that?
MR. LIVINGSTON: Thank you, that's a great question. I think I could answer it
two different ways because I imagine, as a commissioner, I would have to board
on applications for small developments, maybe somebody wants to subdivide and
come out with three lots. So traffic is a problem, handling of water and
wastewater is a challenge as well. You need to look at the benefit of adding those
extra housing units and increasing the inventory so that we can reach an
affordable housing goal and relieve some of those market stresses, but also the
impact it's going to have on our infrastructure.
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I think with large developments, it's different. I think the developer needs to
bring something to the table as far as alleviating those stresses it will place on the
community. And we've noticed that the large developments do get a lot of public
testimony, so I think in the areas where maybe the General Plan and CDP have
become outdated and aren't addressing or aren't aligning with the current
community need, that's where the Planning Commission can receive that public
testimony, consider it, and apply it against other laws or zoning codes, state land
use requirements.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. Thank you for that answer. The other—so that leads
me to kind of your values and what you would like to see this community, if you
were to fast forward 10 to 20 years, what would be your vision of what would be
in that community? What kind of like public services would be there? What
how the county and what the county's role is in that part of—because I kind of
think that what I've also seen with conditions that we put on these subdivisions
and rezoning is, how do we address our public services and the types of what our
county can provide to the community as we allow it to grow. Just some thoughts
on that. Thank you.
MR. LIVINGSTON: Thank you. That'sI feel like I could talk about that for an
hour. It's a complicated balancing act. I think we've placed a lot of pressure on
developer to fulfill our need for infrastructure, whether that's traffic, roads,
wastewater, sewers. So it's a balance of requiring the developers to pony up, but
also the county's and the government, the state, because they own so many of the
highways, they should also be coming to the table to meet this need.
So I would hope that we can see more cooperation between the private, the
county, the state, to meet those needs while also increasing our housing inventory,
adding some development because we're bringing in more people that's not
stopping, but we really haven't seen much development since I was in high school
or growing up. You know, we've gotten a few more traffic lights, a couple large
developments, but we really haven't seen large affordable housing go in. I think
it's been a little disconnected and unorganized, and hopefully, I feel that we're
getting some momentum and the community really cares right now. There's a lot
of pressure I think the community's putting on the government to help with the
housing concerns. So I'm hopeful that we will see things like water and
wastewater develop in Kona and become less of an issue and less of a limiting
factor.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. Thank you very much. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Member. Coming
back to Hilo. Council Member Kierkiewicz.
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MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Aloha, Trey. Thank you so much for
making the drive out to Hilo to connect with some of us. I just want to thank you
for your service for our country and now stepping up in this capacity to serve our
community. You bring a wealth of knowledge and experience to the table, and I
really appreciate you for that. And I just want to note the time in which that you
are potentially joining the commission, it's a very important time in our history as
we are reviewing the General Plan, which you will see and review before the
Council makes final decisions upon, but also as the Planning Department goes
through a comprehensive review of Chapter 25 and 23. And so your experience
and you know, realty and development I think are going to be really foundational
to making sure that any changes to those Codes are done as you say, in a
responsible manner. So thank you for your service. Chair, I yield.
MR. LIVINGSTON: Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Council Member, thank you. Council
Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: I just wanted to add in something. I think you bring an
important balance to the board, looking at the current make up. So I just wanted
to throw that in for my fellow Council Members, as well as, you know,just your
sort of thoughtful, intellectual way of looking at these problems, I think it's really
a good addition.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Kona, any further discussion?
MS. VILLEGAS: Yes,please.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Council Member Villegas, go ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. Thank you again, Trey, for your willingness to
answer these questions and kind of navigate the different perspectives that each
one of us bring to the table, sitting here on the Council. I feel like I would be
remiss though, if I did not point out some of my concerns after listening to some
of your answers. I am concerned with a value system that wouldn't hold
developers responsible for paying impact fees and contributing to our overly
taxed infrastructure because as you said, yeah, we keep bringing people here and
those people are buying homes and displacing our kama`aina and our local
people.
And as you said, you know, there are a lot of young people and I even still
consider myself just middle-aged, but my daughters can't afford, barely, to rent
anything here. That is something and an issue that is also directly related to the
real estate industry. And there is a complex web in that industry which directly
corelates to increased pricing,pricing our people out, and I don't see that—you
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know, I hear from a lot of people that we haven't had any housing developments
in a number of years here, and there likes to be a lot blame put on county
government for the impact fees that are required and the participation from
developers to contribute into improving our roads, sewers, schools and whatnot. I
also firmly believe that the prior system of requiring a 20 percent affordable
housing is deeply flawed and is one of the reasons we are in the circumstance we
are in right now. To continue with that parameter and those requirements
continues to set us up for failure, especially when we look at the number of
affordable housing credits that are out there and that whole Ponzi scheme and
game that can be played.
So I don't I was a little bit concerned, your comments, there seems to be
potentially some confusion, although you're kind of in the hot seat and I totally
understand that right now, but in comments relating to infrastructure versus
development. And so infrastructure, when it comes to our roadways and street
lights and sewer systems, anytime we're adding to the capacity and we are almost
at capacity in a lot of places, as you mentioned, in South Kona, water is an issue
and I just really feelI just have some concerns. I wish I felt more confident in
being able to put forth a positive recommendation. I appreciate my colleagues
doing so but there's just a number of—couple of red flags for me and I do feel
incredibly protective and incredibly, I feel a heightened sense of urgency with this
time and this era that we're trying to navigate, and I want to make sure that the
people in these positions have progressive value systems and that they will dictate
and they will that's what will inspire decision making in the Leeward Planning
Commission, which is pivotal in the future of our west Hawaii, specifically.
And so just in all honesty, I'm going to just say that right now, so I see
opportunity for some more education and it's—while we're not, you know, this is
not specifically related to your ability to do the job. There have been numerous
conversations in our Council about the stacking of the Planning Commissions
with those who work in the real estate industry or development industry or union
focused, and so that has been an area of concern. I'm sure it's not a news flash
for you, but yeah,just want to be honest on those things and challenge you to
continue to dig deep and explore what your intentionality would be in this role.
And I just—Council Inaba's question about navigating any potential the balance
of working in the real estate industry and serving on the Leeward Planning
Commission, I don't think the question was intended to refer to your capacity to
manage all the work, but more about the value systems that provide for the
decision making and ensuring that they—one doesn't compromise the other. So
thank you for your willingness to be here today and to endure these conversations
and these questions and your willingness to serve in this role, which is very much
a hot seat. So yeah, with that, Chair, I yield.
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CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Villegas. Coming back to
Hilo, Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks Chair. Trey, thanks again for being here. You know,
I'm just going to lean in and from the representative of the district supporting
your nomination. I think we're way down in the weeds right now and some of
these conversations that we're having from our other colleagues to try and find
the perfect candidate is actually setting us up for failure. And I share that because
there's so much that has happened long before you and I appreciate your
comment as a high school student going away for school and for the military to
come back and not see much change.
What's not being acknowledged here is some of the decisions that former
colleagues of ours made by putting in a moratorium that would not permit
development, not tackling the impact fee process, which some people think is
absolutely illegal. So there are a lot of nuances that are not being acknowledged
here and maybe even glazed over, and in an effort to find perfection, that we have
a good and excellent candidate in front of us. And so as you move forward
through this process, you know, I think these are the things that mold and shape
all of us and as you go through the process and onto the Leeward Planning
Commission, you know, you're going to learn a lot. You already bring a wealth
of knowledge, but you can actually lean in a whole lot more to ensure that maybe
some of these conditions not only work for the developer and/or our housing
contributors, because that's what they are, they're housing contributors, but also
what works for community, and it's that balance.
So thank you for sitting in the hot seat but just acknowledging that, you know,
you're kind of here sitting in this hot seat without there being more context about
pass decisions that were being made, not only by individuals in the Planning
Commission but our own colleagues who sat right here on these seats. And
they're definitely trying to change the trajectory, but I was told a very long time
ago government is like a battleship, you don't turn on a dime. In fact, it takes a
mile before that battleship actually can make that turn. So just acknowledge the
space that you're in, make the good decisions with the information that you have
in front of us, fall a little forward, maybe set that goal a little higher, but
completely support your nomination. I yield.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy.
Back to Kona one more time. Sorry, Mr. Inaba.
MR. INABA: Yeah, thank you. Mr. Livingston, today I'm going to be voting no,
I'm just not confident right now based on some of the responses, not that I won't
change my mind prior to Councill confirmation, but perhaps similar to Council
Member Villegas, I don't think anybody is looking for a perfect candidate. But I
think there's a need for a certain level of confidence and it's surely not in your
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ability based on your resume because I think you're more than qualified. It's just
in regard to some of the responses you provided today. So thank you for putting
yourself there in that seat today, and I look forward to further conversation at
Council. Chair, I yield.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Member Inaba.
MS. VILLEGAS: Chair?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Council Member Villegas, go ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. I will also be voting no today and my
recommendation would be for potentially, Mr. Livingston, for you to serve on the
CDP Action Committee. I would really like to see a little more because we are
looking for members for the CDP Action Committee, but for opportunities for
folks to share in that capacity and kind of work their way up to the Leeward
Planning Commission, I think that would be really helpful and effective. But
thank you again for being here today and I, as much as anyone, know that
perfection is overrated and unattainable, but there's another level of experience
that I would like to see for this role. So thank you so much.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Member.
Mr. Livingston, you had something to say?
MR. LIVINGSTON: I just wanted to clarify maybe something I said made a
perception that I wouldn't holdI don't believe in holding developers to their
commitments, that's not the case at all. I think they absolutely are in the position
where they need to be held to more than what we've held them to as far as
especially their affordable housing requirements. I think it's unfortunate
everything that happened with the credit situation, and I personally would like to
see onsite housing built for many reasons. I think it creates a mix within the
community that's built rather than isolating, you know, wealthy and affordable
communities. You can kind of bring them together, everyone benefits from that.
So I'm definitely not saying that it's all the county's fault and that we should give
the developers a free ride. I think we need to hold them both to the fire because
everybody has a role to play.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for that, appreciate it. Seeing
no discussion, I'm going to go ahead ask a few questions of my own. Thank you
for being here today. I'll start off actually, with Ms. Bartolome. What is our
current make up right now? Name and current occupation of our existing
members.
MS. BARTOLOME: So we have Barbara DeFranco, who is—she's a business
owner, she also runs her nonprofit, Paleaku Gardens. Michael Dela Cruz, of
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course, he is an ILWU (International Longshore and Warehouse Union) union
representative. We have CJ Kanuha, who besides being an amazing surfer, he's
also long-time family, they're in Kona, business owner. We have Zaheva
Knowles, who is involved in leadership management. I believe she's also an
attorney, but I'm not sure if she still practices. We have Mahina Paishon-Duarte,
who is part of the cultural specialist consultant, he has her consulting firm, and
that is it. Then we have the two open seats for North Kohala and then this South
Kohala at large.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay and then Mr.thank you,
Ms. Bartolome. Mr. Livingston, what area do you see as being represented by the
Leeward Planning Commission? These are the decisions that you'll be facing as a
possible member of the committee so
MR. LIVINGSTON: Geographic area?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah.
MR. LIVINGSTON: Okay. North Kohala all the way to I guess the border with
K5'u. So South Kona, North Kona, North and South Kohala.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Correct, Ms. Bartolome?
MS. BARTOLOME: Yeah, it's at large.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. How long have you been a realtor
for?
MR. LIVINGSTON: Four years, March 2019.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And family-owned business?
MR. LIVINGSTON: Yes, sir.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Everyone in the family?
MR. LIVINGSTON: Everyone except my older sister, she's an architect.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I'm sure they're rooting for you
today. I think—what I've always appreciated about Ms. Villegas is she's very
clear about her statement, she always does. Ee've talked about affordable housing
and we've talked about a lot of different things today, I think all tying back to,
you know, the decisions that you'll be making on the Planning Commission and
the importance to the people of Hawaii Island, both those in favor of
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development and those against development and those who just sit in the middle
and don't care.
You know, I was looking to kind of get a feel for you and a lot of good questions
were asked today. My interest always kind of lies in the person in front of me so,
you know, it looks like light experience in real estate, you have an interesting
background in the military. Trying to get a feel for what you believe, your kind of
long-term vision is, and to preface that question, I have been many places and I've
come to appreciate different things. I don't want to share what those things are
until I get more of a feel for you, but what are your thoughts for our island,
specifically the area that you'd be making decisions for when you look 30 years,
50 years down the line. What to do you see in your head?
MR. LIVINGSTON: Are you asking me kind of how I envision like the physical
environment to be—how it's developed over the next 50 years?
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, you know, what do you see? What
do you see your kids playing in, in 50 years? What do you see along our ocean
fronts? What do you see our communities looking like? What is your, kind of
grandiose vision if you had your perfect world?
MR. LIVINGSTON: Yeah, I really see South Kona kind of staying relatively the
same. I think we'll see maybe a few more large-acreage developments pop up,
but it'll stay fairly rural. North Kona, I'd love to see what was formerly the
bypass eventually get developed, whether that's a four-lane highway or if they're
going to do the two lanes with the bike paths on the side or whatever comes out of
that. I'd love to see that in there just one, because of the efficiency and the traffic
problems it could solve, but also if that does have the bike paths and the running
paths, I thinkI like doing all that stuff and getting out and I know a lot of people
in Kona are pretty active and it's really going that way, so it'll be fun to have
something like that as a resource.
It seems like there's going to be a lot of development around Palamanui. So I'm
curious kind of what I think that's kind of the game changer for Kona, is how
much activity is that going to generate in our community? Maybe that's where
my kids one day are going to go to school or maybe they're going to live out
there. It really feels like everybody is like the center of gravity's moving north
right now, and then I think we see that with Waikoloa as well with that big
grocery store and everything they put up on the south side of the road there.
I don't know, I see kind of our center of gravity going north, and I'm okay with
that, personally, because I like it down south, I like it where it's quiet. I traveled a
lot when I got out of the Air Force and I wasn't sure I wanted to come back to
Hawaii, and after going all over the place both with the Air Force and on my
own, it's like Kona's the spot. It's got everything I want to do, surfing, I can raise
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animals, I've got a cow in my front yard, I got a bunch of goats, my dog's running
leash free, it's great. That's where I want to be and I want to preserve that, but I
also want to make it attainable for other people unfortunate to have family that
have the foresight to plan for my sisters and I, and they did it at a time when
things were affordable. So I get to walk over in the mornings and have coffee
with them, talk shop, and then I go and do my work.
They weren't as community involved as I am, so this is kind of like my way to
kind of go off and do my own thing because I kind of am always under their
shadow, right, in the brokerage family business, and this is a cool step for me to
really take my expertise, my education, and go do my own thing. So that's what
I'm looking forward to doing, being a part of the community in that way.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. You have kids?
MR. LIVINGSTON: No kids.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No kids? If you could hand your kids the
perfect west Hawaii, given that's where you represent, what would you want
them to see when they grow up?
MR. LIVINGSTON: A place where they can swim in Kailua Bay, and it doesn't
have brown water advisories. A place where they can run along the road or for a
distance without worrying about being hit by a car, where there's parks and things
like that for them to enjoy the recreational activities but also sufficient, I guess
business, where they feel that they can work a good job other than within the
construction industry or food and service. So I feel like a lot of people are limited
to those and there's a few of us that are fortunate to branch out. But I really hope
to see more of that other careers start to pop up and maybe with Palamanui and
that development up there, we'll see more of that,but time will tell.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Any relationship with Mr. Kern,
he's our director, that we should know about?
MR. LIVINGSTON: No.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Any of his businesses in the past?
MR. LIVINGSTON: No.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I like to listen to my Kona
colleagues,just because this is, I mean I represent Puna so this is kind of a
distance from your area and the area you'd be making decisions for, but I listen
for their input because they speak for the district and the people in the
communities that you would be making decisions for as a Planning
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Commissioner. Today I heard two of, well, I'm not sure, two openly said no
today, open to further discussion, and one said yes, and I don't know what the
other one's going to do because I just don't know. So I will be voting against you
today, but I do like what your answers have been so far. I'm voting that way for
reasons of my own, but just as a listening member of our body, two of my Council
Members in Kona and I think that's fair, and I am always an open door to further
conversation. I do like your answers. I have three children and I look at our
island, I look at the places that I've been in the world, and I know what I love
about our community and I know what I like about other communities I visited.
So when I look at the folks coming in front of us for these commissions, I'm
gauging where you're going to sit and the decisions that you're going to make so
that our kids can enjoy the life that we have been able to enjoy here, which
disappears every day, and that's how I see it.
Everything about you looks good and we have another reading so another vote for
you in a couple weeks. But I'll be saying no today, nothing personal, I'm just
listening to my members in Kona, and I'll be doing a little bit more digging into
you and who you are and maybe we can meet, touch bases between here and then.
MR. LIVINGSTON: Sounds great. Thank you.
CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Thanks for being here today.
Okay, that brings us to the end of this discussion, and my timer went off anyway.
Mr. Clerk, let's do a roll call for today,please.
Vote on Comm. 335: The motion to confirm the appointment of Mr. Trey
(Approved) Livingston to the Leeward Planning Commission was
carried by the following roll call vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, and Lee Loy —5.
Noes: Committee Members Evans, Inaba, Villegas,
and Acting Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—4.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you for being here
today. Thank you, Ms. Bartolome, appreciate the conversation, and we will see
you in two weeks.
MR. LIVINGSTON: Thank you all for your time.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, the Acting Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder relinquished the chair to
Acting Chair Lee Loy.
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ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Let the record
reflect, I have assumed the chair at 11:44. Mr. Clerk, I believe we have two more
items. If we would head on to Communication 330, please.
Return to Order The Acting Chair directed the Committee to return to the order of business.
of Business:
COMMUNI- The Acting Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of
CATIONS business, Communications.
Comm. 330: REQUESTS A DISCUSSION REGARDING THE 2024 HAWAII STATE
ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES' LEGISLATIVE PACKAGE
From Council Member Heather Kimball, dated June 15, 2023.
Motion to Close File: Ms. Kimball moved to close file on Comm. 330.
Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Kimball, please lead our discussion.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. It's that time of the year again,preparing for
next year's 2024 legislative session, and we have a specific timeline that we need
to follow with respect to compiling the HSAC (Hawai`i State Association of
Counties)package. And so July is the time period during which we need to collect
just general concept from the various council bodies as to priorities for the next
legislative session. Just to extend that further in August, we'll be taking that
Feedback, discussing it with various stakeholders, and working with our lobbyists
to put in bill format.
And then in September is the deadline to have passed it through our Council. So
think about that in terms of getting it on our agenda. It will have to be passed
through our Council and submitted to HSAC in September. That means that in
October the executive committee will act upon it,put the package together and that
will come back to us in November. So the purpose of today is to just get some
general feedback from you all on any legislative items you'd like to see as a
priority for next legislative session. With that I'll yield.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Ms. Kimball. Opening up for discussion, and
what I hear my colleague asking is themes, ideas, for possible policy shifts at the
legislature. Anyone? Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Might shoot myself in the foot here, but
been thinking about this for a awhile. I'd like to see some movement on
fireworks. And I'm not necessarily saying more strict, I'm actually saying we
should maybe look the other direction and look at the tax opportunity for the
counties and the state as a whole, as far as what we could do to take in more tax
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money, given the amount of illegal fireworks we see that seems to be just as legal
as anything else these days. I'm not looking for anyone's support on that, I think
that would be something that the counties could look into. That would definitely
be kind of a state approach first. Thank you, Chair.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder.
Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I have a short list, and I'm happy to
help draft resolutions and put them forward at Council for more extensive
deliberation. What immediately comes to mind is a new jail for Hawaii Island.
We are over, over capacity here in East Hawaii. Additional support in funding to
deal with our invasive species, not limited to Albizia but things like the varroa
mite, and other things like feral pigs. I'd like to see a bit more investment in
workforce development programs and collaborations with community partners
like the economic development administration, which has run successful
programs during the pandemic, investment in mental health and substance abuse
treatment here on island. And if there's any way for us to get flexibility and
money for improvements to private roads especially in private subdivisions,
which whole other conversation about their whole creation.
And if we can start thinking about where we need to be situating additional
schools throughout our community. You know, I think about the community
development plans and their implementation. The community I represent of
Hawaiian Paradise Park bursting with individuals, and there is a need to support
an additional school in that area. And so we need to start having these
conversations now about how we plan for the future. Thank you. Chair, I yield.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Looking to Kona,
Ms. Evans, Ms. Villegas, Mr. Inaba any ideas.
MS. EVANS: Yeah. I have a couple.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Go ahead, Ms. Evans.
MS. EVANS: I want HSAC to weigh in on the opioid crisis and try to get the
legislature again back in, I think it was in 2008 or 2009 I believe,possibly
Tommy Waters was on that legislative committee that looked at the ice epidemic
that we had going across the state at that time. And it was really pretty
formidable, the kind of effort that came out of the working groups, going around
to each island and talking to everybody about ice. And they came out with some
great ideas, some funding, working with our Federal Congressional delegation.
We've changed laws, it was just a fabulous effort,but like anything it has
sunsetted, it has waned. The focus was on it, things were put in place, some years
went by, and then all of sudden I think it just gone kind of silent. And yes, there's
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this fentanyl effort, we're going around and talking to the kids in school about
fentanyl. We're doing some stuff on fentanyl, but I think the drug crisis is so out
there, and I'm told a lot of people that are homeless is because they're on drugs.
You know, it's really having a huge impact.
And not knowing what the future is going to be on the legalization of marijuana,
which I think is gaining more and more traction every year in Honolulu at the
State Capitol. It maybe we're going to see in the near future legalization in
marijuana. So I'd really like to see HSAC weigh in on trying to put together a
real effort to look at our drug crisis in the state and the impact of maybe legalizing
marijuana, plus the fact that we may have lacking in mental health providers that
can help people when they're getting off drugs. I think we have a shortage in that
area.
The other thing is behavioral health, how do we, I mean I'm kind of expanding on
the opioid thing, but opportunities maybe for community police officers and how
do our—there's this community resource officers that are being put in middle
schools right now. Unfortunately, they're very limited and they're only targeting
a few middle schools not all middle schools. Why don't we have them in all
middle schools? We should have them in all middle schools. So that's another
take off on the opioid drug crises. So that's kind of a nutshell on one topic.
And then the second topic is, I really want to see kind of what the other counties
are talking about when it comes to electrical vehicles. Can we at the county level,
given that maybe the state legislature can't figure out the answer though they're
trying as to how are we going to tax and work with electric vehicles on their
impact to our roads and our highways? You know, do we weigh in on—should it
be by mileage? Should it be on by weight? Who's going to collect the money? I
mean there's going to have to be some structure, funded possibly by the state
legislature to put a structure in place at the county level and help us staff it up if in
fact we're going start be raising taxes for our road maintenance.
And the other thing is about just the idea of electrical vehicles and maybe the state
parks, maybe the state harbors, maybe the state Department of Transportation that
there district maintenance offices, maybe we should have the state put up those
electrical charging stations and not put it on county to do it. You know, maybe
it's time to tell the state to step it up if you want to get electrical vehicles. Have
them be partners stepping up to the plate, doing those electrical vehicle stations
instead of us at the county level. I think it needs to be explored, I hope by the
HSAC. So there it is, there's my two. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Ms. Evans. Thanks for talking very slowly
so that Ms. Kimball could take all those notes. Actually, I really want to take a
quick recess, there's something I need to check with staff. Five minutes. Is that
good, Mr. Clerk? Thank you. We'll reconvene at 12:00, thank you.
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Recess: At 11:54 a.m., the Acting Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 12:01 p.m.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, everyone. Taking this meeting out of
recess. The time now is 12:01 and thank you, we had a little bit of a wobbly
intranet connection, which has been resolved. We ended with Ms. Evans, anyone
else from Kona? Thoughts ideas for future legislative priorities and or
adjustments.
MR. INABA: Real quick.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Sure, Mr. Inaba, go ahead.
MR. INABA: Yup. Just one thing, I know that the legislature had taken up
remote meetings recently. And as we continue to kind of head in that direction,
asking if we can perhaps revisit that part of the HRS so that members of the
public are able to not only view, but also participate in all of our board and
commission meetings wherever they may be calling in from, especially for those
not located in Kona or Hilo. It's something that I think we, and I guess across the
state, but this isn't something that we can amend right now at the county level
being that the law at the state level is encompassed and prevents us, so providing
that language perhaps forces us to grant that ability for remote participation by the
public. And I would like to continue seeing our membership of the boards and
commissions meet in person, again making that clear its from members of the
public to engage and be able to live steam and view as well.
And then the only other thing I have right now, is just circling back it's kind of
been mentioned already. But further support and I know there's state initiatives
right now but perhaps even bolstering those initiatives when it comes to the
creation and support of mental health facilities, not only for those on the streets
but for the those who might be on street if they don't receive services. I'll be
working probably on a resolution for the first topic I shared, and hope that we
might consider providing some type of HSAC a voice to the legislature regarding
mental health and social services. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Mr. Inaba. I'll check with Ms. Villegas
since we're over in Kona. Any thoughts legislative priorities?
MS. VILLEGAS: Not at the moment, thank you.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. Back here in Hilo I have Ms. Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: So I guess my thoughts for legislative priorities would be, I
don't know exactly how this would work, but one problem throughout my district
is there's not a lot of places to get into the water and the impact of tourists on
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those sites is just kind of horrendous. So perhaps some kind of enabling of
community management of those sites, similar to what's happenedI think on
Kauai is roughly everyone kind of sort of talks about H5'ena and Kauai and what
they've done there. But not sure that it's possible, and I think looking at it and
enabling that would be good. And then of course more funding for the
Department of Agriculture, specifically around planning, land, and especially
water as we continue to go dryer and dryer. It's just critical that we take that
more seriously.
And then the third thing would be infrastructure for rural schools. I think both
Council Member Evans and I have sports facilities that don't work. And that is
just so important for our communities to have those facilities be operable because
they're not just for the school, but the community at large. Thank you very much.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Ms. Galimba. Ms. Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. So yeah, I have a few things I think
several of these may be just supporting bills that may already be in the works for
the biennium. One of those is the bill that allows counties to regain control over
tobacco regulations. It's been an issue, I think, since the state took control of it
and hasn't really been able to do what needs to be done in our county around that.
I'd like to see more funding and support for maternal and reproductive health
especially in rural areas. I know there's a discussion around possibly a vacancy
tax. I'd like us to kind of think about weighing in on that, and how we might
want to weigh in on it. And going back to the mental health issue, specifically
around child and adolescent psychiatry. We don't have that, and families are
really forced into a bind here when they have a child who's going through a
mental health crisis and they have to leave the island and be separated, or the
entire family has to relocate.
One more and this is more of a agricultural one which is making sure that
ungulates of all kinds on our island are taking into an account when lookingI
think there's a bill or a pilot or something I'm not sure looking at expanding the
ability to hunt, donate, and sell wild game, which could help with some of our
ungulate problem on this island, whether that's through getting federal meat
inspectors or other ways. I think that would be super helpful. I think that's it, I
yield.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Ms. Kagiwada. I think we've heard from
everyone, so if I might follow up absolutely in support of everyone's ideas.
Building off of Ms. Galimba's infrastructure for rural schools, I think if we
looked at it as more of an ecosystem where not only it's for rural schools, but
teacher housing, maybe police and fire services that we could actually maybe
drop in a training facility for police and fire services. So it would create not only
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the ecosystem for the schools but also all the other pieces and elements that would
help support the school, not only from the kids and the families that they serve,
but from an entire ecosystem.
I also would love to see maybe leaning in a little bit more on our film industry
and capitalizing on different tax incentives and or permits that the film industry
uses, that actually our own county could capitalize on and make those impacts
kind of translate into financial support for the areas that they impact.
And then finally, I know we're going to have a conversation around high rock and
transferring from kind of a fuel tax model to a mileage model. But I would also
love to see how we could expand the GE(General Excise) that we use for our
Mass Transit here on the neighbor islands. And maybe expand that into use of
paving roads, specifically our private, subdivision roads where we could have
some flexible language in that area. I think it would go a long way, especially
here in Hawaii County. Or Ms. Kimball,just given the option, right, however
the state wants to handle their GE for transit,just giving us other options I think
would be helpful. Those are my thoughts. Ms. Kimball, take us home.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you, Chair. Thank you all for these really great
ideas. The way then to move forward is I'll be taking these to the executive
committee and discussing them further, and determining where we think there's
possibility to develop some legislation. I'm very happy to work with any of you
individually, to develop the legislation and keep in mind this is a state-level bill.
And it's a slightly different format that we would have, but when it comes back to
this body it would be in the form of an attachment to a resolution requesting that
the bill be added to the HSAC package. In addition to actual bills, you know, for
some of these examples being mental health and mental health support, it
wouldn't be the kind of thing where we would necessarily have a bill, but we
would identify that as one of the priorities we would like HSAC to take on. So
that would also come in the form of a resolution. And what I will do is I'll
probably take these ideas today and put the ones that I think are more of a priority
level and not going to be bill format into a single resolution. And then if there's
anything in the intervening period that you want to share with me, that you think
should be added to that as a priority.
The one thing I did want to note with the change in Chapter 92, a couple years
back the identification of something as a priority by this body for the next
legislative session allows us to talk about testimony during the legislative session.
So if we, for example, identify mental health as a priority, as those bills come
through, we are able to discuss supporting testimony without having to have a
public hearing on that. So it's important to identify these priorities early.
Anyway, I appreciate all the input, most of these actually cover some of the
similar ideas. I had the one additional idea that I want to pursue, is in working
with Council Member Kierkiewicz on the short-term vacation rental issue, one of
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the things has come up has been the ag tourism language at the state level. And I
think that there's probably some tweaking that would be useful because I think we
would have better control over transient accommodations on ag land if people
were required to be part of the ag tourism program rather than trying to fit them
into our short-term vacation rental program. And so we're not allowed to do that
on our island right now, overnight accommodations because of the HRS, want to
be very, very, careful of course aboit how's that done.
But already had some conversations actually yesterday with Rep. Kealoha on the
west side, she's interested in helping explore that a little bit so that's an additional
one. Wanted to make sure that everyone was aware the amendment that did take
place to the GE tax that it can now be used for infrastructure related to affordable
housing. And thank you former Council Member Aaron Chung when he put forth
the legislation that allowed us to charge the additional GE surcharge. He was
thoughtful enough to say whatever the state allows we can do, which means we
don't need to make any changes to our Code to enable us to use that additional the
GE funding for that additional purpose. With that I will yield. Thank you again,
everyone, for your input.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Alright, seeing no more input, we have a motion on
the floor to close file on Communication 330, all those in favor please say "aye."
Vote on Comm. 330: The motion to close file on Comm. 330 was carried
Filed by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba,
Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas and
Acting Chair Lee Loy —9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Last item on the agenda Bill 49, Mr. Clerk.
BILLS FOR The Acting Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of
ORDINANCES: business, Bills for Ordinances.
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Bill 49: INITIATES AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE III, SECTION 3-4 OF THE
HAWAII COUNTY CHARTER(2022 EDITION), RELATING TO VACANCY
IN OFFICE
Proposes reducing the time allotted for the County Council to appoint a successor
to a vacant County Council district seat, establishing restrictions on official
candidates being appointed to a vacant County Council district seat, and that a
person who has been duly elected to serve the upcoming Council term shall
automatically fill a vacancy that occurs for that County Council district seat.
Reference: Comm. 305
Intr. by: Ms. Evans
Postponed: June 6, June 20, 2023
(Note: There is a motion by Ms. Evans, seconded by Mr. Inaba to recommend
passage of Bill 49 on first reading.)
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. We have an active motion on
the floor. Ms. Evans, why don't you start our discussion.
MS. EVANS: Just for clarity, I do have a Communication 305.7 which is a
proposed amendment. So should I make a motion on that?
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Yes, Ms. Evans, if you'd like to enter that so we can
start the conversation around that particular amendment.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Evans moved to amend Bill 49 with the contents of
Comm. 305.7. Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Go ahead, Ms. Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I really appreciate everybody's patience on this.
There's been a lot of discussion over the last couple weeks, have had really good
input from our Chief Clerk Jon Henricks as well as Corporation Counsel
Elizabeth Strance. I think the goal of the Charter amendment, if it goes in front of
the public, is to keep it simple, have the language much more—it's much more
clearer I think what we're trying to achieve. I think we've heard loud and clear
that we really want a democrat process. We want enough time for potential
people interested in filling a vacancy, to be able to put their name forth. So we've
changed some of the days, we went to 14 days after occurrence of the vacancy,
but if you haven't read this, there is definitely a big change on this.
I would like to let you know that I'm going to ask for a postponement of this, of
us taking action until the next committee meeting, and the reason is because Jon
Henricks is on vacation. He'll be gone for a couple of weeks; he will be available
when we meet again. And we think because whatever we decide has an impact
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potentially on his office, that we would like to have him present to make sure that
if we have questions for him, that he's available. Corporation Counsel, Elizabeth
Strance, would really like to have him present too when we take a vote, and so for
that reason, I will be asking to postpone it. But definitely open today for
discussion in your packet, what we did was we put forth a communication 305.8.
And the reason we did that is we wanted you to see the difference between
Honolulu, Maui, Kauai, and Hawaii Island in terms of how they have dealt with
vacancies in the County Council, how they've dealt with vacancies for the Mayor,
and how they've dealt with vacancies for the Prosecuting Attorney, which are
elected offices. And you'll see that we're all over the map, we all are very
different on how we approach it and what we think is the correct way to handle
vacancies. So you know, what's nice is this is what we feel is going be right for
us. So with that I'd like to open it up for questions or discussions. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Evans. Council Members regarding
the amendment contained in Communication 305.7.
MS. EVANS: So Chair, may I add, I think the important piece is this one just you
know. Because there's two communications, I'm only advancing this one right
now. This is the one that has the special election in it. There is another
communication that's 305.6 and that's without the special election. But based on
our conversation last time, we felt that people were inclined to this special
election based on Member Kagiwada's comment, we changed it if the unexpired
term is more than 15 months.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Evans. So when we're looking at
Communication 305.8—Communication 305.7 only pertains to the special
election section, right?
MS. EVANS: Correct. Well, I mean you fill a vacancy either someone—if it's
less than 15 months or more than 15 months. So there's two ways to fill a
vacancy, it depends on the term left to the office.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Okay.
MS. EVANS: If it goes vacant for whatever reason and there's 15 months
remaining, then you would hold a special election. From the time of the
occurrence until the date you hold the special election is 120 days. Now that was
recommended by Jon Henricks, based on the amount of time it would take to
actually put it in motion and meet the requirements of—the State Elections Office
requires that you mail a ballot to people that live overseas or they're in the
military and you have to give them 45 days, you have to mail it 45 days. So
there's a lot of nuances now on how we run elections, so he felt more comfortable
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with 120, so we went from 90 days to 120 days. So if you want to, I could walk
through this it's a short two pager.
The first part is if a vacancy "shall be filled in the following manner: If the
unexpired term is fifteen months or less, the remaining members of the council
shall appoint by a resolution a successor"to fill the vacancy. "Within fourteen
days after the occurrence of the vacancy, the council chairperson shall notify all
remaining members of the council that on a regular meeting date,"not the next,
we took that out, "at a regular meeting date, formal actions shall be taken to fill
the vacancy. Should the council fail to fill the vacancy at the designated meeting,
the council chairperson, within five days shall appoint a successor with the
qualifications required(by Section 3-3) to fill the vacancy. . . ." The person
appointed shall serve until a successor is duly elected.
So then the next part of it is if the unexpired term is more than 15 months, this is
where you would kick in the special election. It would be held within 120 days
after the occurrence, it should be in accordance with the election laws. "Within
14 days after the occurrence of the vacancy, a temporary successor with
qualifications required by Section 3-3, shall be appointed by council chairperson
to fill the vacancy until a successor is duly elected." There's one interesting thing
in here, and that is (c), which is if"any vacancy occurs during the period of time
after an election in which a candidate for the county council district seat that is
vacant is duly elected shall be filled by a person so elected to serve for the
remainder of the unexpired term." So what that means is if you win outright in
the primary, and you're duly elected in the primary, you can fill that vacancy.
And then it says at the bottom, "The remainder of the unexpired term served by a
council member filling a vacancy shall not apply to the term limit. . . ."
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Evans. I see a light on here,
Mr. Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you Chair. I just wanted to touch in
with the Council Member writing the bill. Did you mean to postpone today, or
did you want to do the communication?
MS. EVANS: Today I'd like to postpone action until the next meeting, only
because I want Jon Henricks here so you can ask more questions of him or have
him present. Because at this point in time, he's read this, he's commented on it,
he seems supportive of it, but Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance would really
like to have him present at the time we take official action in case there is
questions, and I thought that was reasonable. So would you like to have
discussion today to get more clarity, or would you like to wait?
MR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: I really feel like that is up to you. It seems
like a perfect Jon Henricks answer right there. My thought is because you
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brought the communication to the floor and we're in discussion on the
communication. it would be prudent to maybe check in with the Clerk about how
we proceed and how you want to proceed with your bill. I yield.
MR. BROWN: If you don't mind me, maybe I can help give a little bit more
context. So right now, we have subsidiary motion on the floor for amending the
bill with the contents of this communication. So we would have to deal with this
amendment on the floor first before a postponement happens. So either the maker
could withdraw this motion and bring it back at a later time, or we would vote on
it and then get back to the main motion. And then at that point you could
postpone, it could be postponed.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. One more light,
Ms. Kagiwada, go ahead.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to make a couple comments
because I actually will be absent at the next meeting, so I just wanted to get a
couple of my comments out there. So I remember we had a discussion, and tell
me if I'm not on the right thing,please. Can I discuss right now, because it
underlined unexpired term is 15 months or less?
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: If it's related to Communication .7, please express
your thoughts.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you. Now that we've moved from 90 days to
120 days, I'm just feeling like I would be more comfortable if the unexpired term
is little shorter than 15 months. I just feel like if we do the 15 months and then
there's 120 days, that's only five months left in the term. And it's a lot of work
and money to be done for five months. And if we can move that back a little bit
to 12 months something like that, it would make more sense to me to go through a
lot of effort. That's just my thought there. Does that make sense?
MS. EVANS: May I respond?
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah, go ahead.
MS. EVANS: Okay. At one time we were thinking if it was 18 months or less,
based on our conversation we went to 15 months. If 15 months kicked in,
actually less and more really causes confusion here. If there's more than 15
months remaining in that unexpired term, it would kick in a special election. So
the worst case scenario is that 15 months, something happens and you're filling a
vacancy, what we will do is kick in a special election, the date would be
approximately 120 days later. So 120 days later, four months, you would be
holding the election with 13 months remaining on the unexpired term.
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MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, thank you. Thanks for that. Yes, this is very
confusing. The other point I guess I just want to weigh in on, and I think we also
touched on this but I want to weigh on it again because now can I speak to the
chart with what the different counties have? Is that okay, Chair?
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: I understand .8 to be for information purposes, and so
it helps clarify your question absolutely. If you could just tie it right back into 07.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah, definitely. So for filling Council Member vacancies
per County Charter on the list here, all the other counties have the Mayor if the
council fails to appoint, the Mayor making the decision, and we're the only one's
that have the Chair making that decision. I think we touched on it last time saying
it's kind of strange to do that given the Chair is part of the Council and has
already had a chance to kind of debate and weigh in. So my thought on that is I
feel like we should be more in line with the other Council Members and
consider having the Mayor appoint at that particular juncture. And my last
comment, sorry, I think at one point it said, for(c), that it would be immediate.
And we had that discussion about their need to be a timeframe when people
could come back and challenge the results of an election. Has that been changed?
And I guess that's a question to the maker.
MS. EVANS: I think that's the discussion that Jon Henricks and I get around
quite a bit. So what would really happen is that normally what happens is yes,
this person would take the seat but not take probably official action until they're
sworn in, similar to what happens at the State Legislature that people get elected,
they take office in November, but they cannot vote and take any official actions
until they are sworn in, which is the third week in January. So this would kind of
be similar in the sense that someone would get elected, yes, they would take the
seat for the district, but if there was action that had to be taken where they were
actually voting, they would have to be sworn in. And if there is some
requirement, our Clerk Henricks felt that having the Elections Office certify it,
and talk to the campaign spending commission to make sure there's no violation
in campaign spending laws, probably that certification would happen in days not
weeks. So he's pretty confident that keeping it written this way it would work.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, I just wanted to bring those things up as potential
issues. Thank you, I yield.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks Ms. Kagiwada for sharing your concerns
since you won't be at our next meeting. Again, any members on
Communication .7?
MR. INABA: Yes, Chair.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Go ahead, Mr. Inaba.
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MR. INABA: So for the resolution just wanting clarity on who is able to submit a
resolution. Is it anyone on the Council?
MS. EVANS: May I answer, Chair?
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Yes, please.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. Yes, so I think that's a point. The resolution, you
could come to a Council meeting and have nine resolutions with people being
proposed and then we vote on the resolution. Now clearly if we all see the
resolution and all the names, whoever—my take on it is whoever gets the first
majority will be it. I mean everybody will see their names, and people will be
able to provide testimony right, like we always do at the beginning, then we'd
have the community—it will be very democratic because it would be at a regular
meeting, so it would be posted, people could give us written testimony or remote
testimony or oral testimony in chamber. They'll see all the names that are going
to be submitted, and it could be submitted by each Council Member and then
they'll be taken up and there will be the votes. And that's why it says, if no one
gets a majority then it ends up being appointed by the Council Chair. So you
could have nine people's names submitted, and they never get to the majority
which would be five.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you. The next question, we're changing from the
language of the original bill stating that all that"the council chairperson shall
notify all remaining members of the council that on a regular meeting date," so
initially we had in your bill the next meeting date.
MS. EVANS: Yeah, we took that out.
MR. INABA: Okay. And I'm thinking in the weeds right now, well I guess we
can't rule it out that for example, five resolutions are submitted by five different
Council Members, the potential for a chair to hold off agendizing one of those
resolutions to then limit options. Do we have any thoughts on that, maybe from,
first from the introducer and then maybe from Corporation Counsel? If this
passes, would that be a possibility that we could perhaps see some resolutions
held off to the next Council meeting, which then wouldn't allow for all potential
work replacements to be considered? Council Member Evans, if you have any
thoughts on that.
MS. EVANS: Yes. There's always the challenge. One of things we were trying
to address is the next regular meeting date may be so soon that people you
know, like if you had a next regular meeting date that was only three or four days
from the time of the occurrence, it'd be so soon, and people would be scrambling.
So it was the sense of how do we make sure there's what we believe is enough
time, to make sure that people could submit their names. What we may want to
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do is take a look at just making sure that it has to be at a regular meeting date.
And the reason we wanted a regular meeting date is so that it would get posted
that the public would see it, that they could testify, they could show up to testify.
And so we took away being a special meeting date, turning it into a regular
meeting date because we felt it would be more visible to the public if we did it
that way. But the other thing is, I hear what you're saying, is we just got to make
sure that the Council acts in a very timely manner, and I hear that. That might be
something we can further discuss.
MR. INABA: Okay. And then when we are looking all regular meeting dates is
it the Chair who determines what that meeting date is?
MS. EVANS: Correct.
MR. INABA: By notifying all of the Council Members.
MS. EVANS: Correct.
MR. INABA: Corporation Counsel can you weigh in there?
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Judge Strance has stepped out
for a few minutes. If you would like to yield and maybe we can circle back
around and see if any other Council Members have comments.
MR. INABA: I just have one more question for now then, if that's okay.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Sure, go ahead.
MR. INABA: Okay. In looking at Communication 305.8, we're sharing how the
other counties, Honolulu and Maui, do special elections, and it's kind of the
reverse the language. You were saying if the vacancy occurs within the first three
years of the Honolulu term or within the first nine months of the Maui terms. So
I'm just wondering if we are trying to head out for consistency,just more of a
language thing that we'd say how many months have gone by of the term rather
than how many months are remaining,just as a matter of consistency with the
other counties.
And then the only other concern or question perhaps I have here is when there is
unexpired term of 15 months or less, any Council Member can submit a
resolution. But if the unexpired term is 15 months or more, then the Chair
appoints a temporary successor until someone is elected. So right now, if I'm
reading it correctly, our Charter just says that the Council as a whole, no matter
what, because we don't have special election always has that chance. And if the
Council doesn't take action within 60 days, that the Chairperson then has the
power to appoint. So making sure and confirming I guess, Council Member
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Evans, that we're taking two different approaches. If it's a short vacancy then
anyone gets to submit a resolution, but if it's a long vacancy and there's going to
be a special election, then just the Council Chairperson gets to choose a temporary
successor. Is that correct?
MS. EVANS: I think you're reading it right. And if given that—within 14 days
after the occurrence of the vacancy, the successor shall be appointed by Council
Chair. But it also immediately triggered within 120 days, there's going to be a
special election. So whoever is appointed to the vacancy will be probably serving
for maybe three to three and a half months. So we could change it and obviously
do the resolution, but that would be probably again at a regular Council meeting
so that the public has an opportunity to weigh in on it. And then so you're
probably a month into it with the seat sitting vacant, and then for three months if
the Council agrees to someone, they would only be sitting for three months until
the special election. I mean it's up to us how we want to play that out. But it
would seem a little more the clock ticks pretty fast, you know, so I would think
leaving it up to the Council person to point my work. Actually, better than doing
it the other way.
MR. INABA: Alright. And so if we go with what's in Section (b), I want to
make sure I heard you correctly. The Council Chairperson simply appoints, and
that person stays.
MS. EVANS: Until the special election, someone gets elected of the special
election.
MR. INABA: Okay. I'm not strongly opposed to it. I'm just thinking we're
taking two different approaches depending on the length of the vacancy. And if
we are going down the path of a special election, I think I would prefer the seat to
be vacant instead of giving somebody that position, which in turn could help them
in a special election. So I'm fine with the special election process, I just don't
think we should put somebody there temporarily and perhaps give that person an
advantage in the special election if there was going to be one. And that's all I'll
say for now.
MS. EVANS: I'd be very opened to putting some language in there that they
would not be a candidate. Basically, someone who fills it will not be eligible to
be a candidate. They would be disqualified added as a qualifier. They'd be
disqualified if they were actually a candidate, right? There might be a way to
throw some language in there, and I think that was a good catch on your part.
MR. INABA: Alright. But with that, Chair, I'm not going to be able support that,
just because I think it needs to go one way or the other. It's either there's a
special election and we leave it vacant, or there's a special election and if the
Chair is going to choose somebody to temporarily take that position, that they are
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not going to be able to run in the special election. So I won't be able to support
this, and I'm happy to support either of those ideas, it doesn't matter to me. I just
can't support what's in this as it's written. Thank you, Chair. I yield.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Back here in Hilo, I see
Ms. Kimball's light. Go ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. First wanting to respond to Council Member
Inaba's question for Corp Counsel, about the potential scenario where resolutions
could be introduced for potential candidates. And well the Chair does not have
authority to not put them on the agenda, the Chair does have the authority to put
them at a later date, which could actually, as he identified, disrupt. Now I
certainly wouldn't do that, but, you know, it could happen. And so that is a good
point, Council Member Inaba, that there probably has to be either an adjustment
to our rules that would say that those types of resolutions would be required to be
at the next hearing, or it could be in the next meeting. In this Charter amendment
proposal, I'm not clear on why the next meeting was taken out.
I would also agree that I have concerns about this appointment in the intervening
period between the vacancy and the special election because it presents the
scenario where you have a two-year term represented potentially by three
different people. And we all know how much time it takes to you know, some
of us are still coming up to speed on things, admittedly me as well, but there's a
big learning curve for this position and that concerns me that you'd have a
scenario where there be three different people serving in that term, while still
understanding that representation is important. I do like the 15 months and the
special election, I think we just need to consider some other alternatives for that
intervening period while this special election were to take place.
I have a little bit of confusion around the wording of(c). I think it needs to be a
little bit clear because I think it can be interpreted different ways. So I would just
ask the author to maybe review that language and see if it can be rephrased in a
way that's a little bit more succinct and clear. I understand, based on our
conversation, what you're going for, but I don't think this says quite that. So I
would say I would hold off on supporting this communication as is,just because I
still think there's some fine tuning of the language that's necessary. Thanks, I
yield.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Ms. Kimball. Anyone else? Well, if I could
weigh in. Like the rest of my colleagues, I think my first concern is with item (c)
and the interpretation because I'm also reading that multiple ways. In addition to
some of the continuity, while my colleagues are thinking about who might come
and go and potentially three people representing that seat, it's all going to boil
down to a majority, especially with one vacancy, and it could tip the scales for a
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majority in one direction and the other. And I think that's actually where a lot my
heartburn lies.
But with that, if I could suggest to the maker, I think you've heard a lot of good
input and foreshadowing as to what the thoughts are around Communication .7.
I think we have a couple of options. You can put it up to vote, I think I can read
the room a little bit, or withdraw this motion and withdraw this particular
communication, tinker with it a little bit more, and then follow your lead with
postponing this bill to our July 18 meeting where you can actually take some of
the feedback that you heard today. And maybe introduce a refined
communication that addresses some of the concerns that have been raised during
this discussion on Communication 305.7. Ms. Evans, what's your pleasure?
Withdraw Motion MS. EVANS: My recommendation is to withdraw Communication 305.7.
to Amend:
Vote on Motion to: Ms. Evans moved to postpone Bill 49 to July 18, 2023.
Postpone: Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder and carried by the
(Approved) following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba,
Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas and
Acting Chair Lee Loy —9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: I believe that gets us to the end of the agenda.
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ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 12:49 p.m., Ms. Kimball moved to adjourn
MENT: the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali'i—Kleinfelder and carried by the
following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba,
Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas and
Acting Chair Lee Loy—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: This meeting is adjourned at 12:49 p.m. Thank
you, everyone.
Approved:
Cfcc>1-3
Ms. Cindy Eva , Chair (Date)
Committee on Governmental Operations
and External Affairs
CE/rk
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