HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN COUNCIL 2023-07-06 2022-2024 Hawaii County Council
171h Session
Hawaii County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaii
July 6, 2023
INVOCATION: Pastor Chris Czarnecki of First United Protestant Church gave the morning's
invocation.
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Hawaii County Council was called to order at
ORDER: 9:03 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Hilo, by Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Chair
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Vice Chair
Ms. Cindy Evans, Member
Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member
Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member (via videoconference from Kona)
PLEDGE OF The Chair directed the Council to the next order of business, Pledge of
ALLEGIANCE: Allegiance.
(At this time, Noah Otani, a member of the Waiakea High
School Boys Golf Team, led the Council in the Pledge of
Allegiance.)
PETITIONS, The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, Petitions,
MEMORIALS, Memorials, Certificates of Merit, and Expressions of Condolence.
CERTIFICATES
OF MERIT, AND (Note: At this time:
EXPRESSIONS OF 1) Ms. Lee Loy presented Certificates of Merit to the Waiakea High School Boys
CONDOLENCE: Golf Team for winning the Hawaii High School Athletic Association State
Team Championship; and
2) Mr. Inaba presented the July 2023 Haweo Award to Firefighter Keoni
Soares of the Hawaii Fire Department.)
(Note: A recess was called at the end of each presentation.)
Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by
the Chair:
Loke Davis: Bill 230, Draft 2 (Comm. 1060.11), comment.
Leslie Cole-Brooks: Bill 48, Draft 3 (Comm. 279.83), in support.
Lorraine Shin: Bill 230, Draft 2 (Comm. 1060.11), in opposition.
(representing Downtown
Improvement Association)
Nancy Cabral: Bill 230, Draft 2 (Comm. 1060.11), comment.
Deborah Beaver: Bill 230, Draft 2 (Comm. 1060.11), in opposition.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you very much. With that, can I have a motion on the
minutes?
APPROVAL The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, Approval
OF MINUTES: of Minutes.
Motion to Approve: Ms. Lee Loy moved to approve the Minutes of May 18,
2023. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz.
CHR. KIMBALL: Any discussion on the minutes?
MS. LEE LOY: Chair, yes, I just really want to mahalo staff. I mean, what is
this, like less than two months out and we've got minutes. So, thank you so much
for the hard work that staff puts in to transcribing hours and hours of testimony.
Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Yes, we definitely
appreciate the hard work from Council Services. All right, all those in favor of
approving the minutes please say "aye."
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
Vote on Approval The motion to approve the Minutes of May 18, 2023, was
of Minutes: carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: The minutes from May 18'h are approved. If we could go now
to "Reports,"please.
Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the
of Business: following items were taken out of order:
GOEAC-52 NOMINATION OF KEITH UNGER TO THE WATER BOARD
(Comm. 318):
Requires Council
Confirmation by: July 15, 2023 (Section 13-4(k),
Hawaii County Charter)
Vote on GOEAC-52: Ms. Lee Loy moved to adopt Governmental Operations and
(Adopted) External Affairs Committee Report No. 52. Seconded by
Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: The nomination of Keith Unger to the Water Board is
approved.
GOEAC-53 NOMINATION OF SAMUEL PLUNKETT, JR., TO THE PUBLIC ACCESS,
(Comm. 319): OPEN SPACE, AND NATURAL PRESERVATION COMMISSION
Requires Council
Confirmation by: July 15, 2023 (Section 13-4(k),
Hawaii County Charter)
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
Vote on GOEAC-53: Ms. Lee Loy moved to adopt Governmental Operations and
(Adopted) External Affairs Committee Report No. 53. Seconded by
Ms. Kagiwada and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: The nomination of Samuel Kamuela Plunkett is confirmed.
Congratulations.
GOEAC-54 NOMINATION OF JEREMY BUTTERFIELD TO THE FIRE BOARD OF
(Comm. 327): APPEALS
Requires Council
Confirmation by: July 15, 2023 (Section 13-4(k),
Hawaii County Charter)
Vote on GOEAC-54: Ms. Lee Loy moved to adopt Governmental Operations and
(Adopted) External Affairs Committee Report No. 54. Seconded by
Ms. Kagiwada and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: The nomination of Jeremy Butterfield to the Fire Board of
Appeals is confirmed. We will take it, now, to the top of the agenda to
resolutions, please.
Return to Order The Chair directed the Council to return to the order of business.
of Business:
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, Order of
RESOLUTIONS: Resolutions.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
Res. 195-23: TRANSFERS/APPROPRIATES AN APPROPRIATION OUT AND FROM A
DESIGNATED FUND ACCOUNT AND CREDITS SAME TO A DESIGNATED
FUND ACCOUNT TO PROVIDE A GRANT TO INTERFAITH COMMUNITIES
IN ACTION FOR ITS FUN WALK FUNDRAISER FOR HABITAT FOR
HUMANITY HAWAII ISLAND
Transfers $1,000 from the Clerk-Council Services —Contingency Relief account
(Council District 2); and credits to the Department of Parks and Recreation,
Administration Other Current Expenses account.
Reference: Comm. 332
Intr. by: Ms. Kagiwada
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kagiwada moved to adopt Res. 195-23.
Seconded by Ms. Galimba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much. Just looking for your support. This is a
group that is doing a fundraiser in order to benefit their 2023 awardee, which is
Habitat for Humanity. That's all in support of an established fund that they have,
which is called Hale ka Po`e Keiki, Home for Children. So, this is a group of
interfaith, you know, organizations around the island, and they just want to raise
funds and donate them to Habitat for Humanity to build safe spaces for keiki and
their families.
So, I want to thank the Department of Parks and Rec. (Recreation) for helping
with the CRF (Contingency Relief Fund), and looking for your support. Thank
you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Any additional
discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor of adopting Resolution 195-23, please
say "aye."
Vote on Res. 195-23: The motion to adopt Res. 195-23 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: Resolution 195-23 is adopted.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
Res. 197-23: URGES CONGRESS TO PRESERVE THE ZONING AND REGULATORY
AUTHORITY OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS OVER TELECOMMUNICATION
INFRASTRUCTURE
Supports the National Association of Counties' concerns regarding the proposed
"American Broadband Deployment Act of 2023,"which could potentially impact
state and local zoning authority over the placement, construction, or modification
of certain telecommunication infrastructure, the ability to receive compensation for
the use of public rights-of-way, and the capacity of local governments to deny
telecommunication permits, approvals, and authorizations.
Reference: Comm. 334
Intr. by: Ms. Evans
Waived: GOEAC
Motion to Approve: Ms. Evans moved to adopt Res. 197-23. Seconded by
Ms. Kierkiewicz.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I actually believe the description said it quite well.
I'm very hopeful that we support this and send a strong message to our
congressional delegation that: Please do not pass, in the American Broadband
Deployment Act, the ability for Federal Government to preempt this; and we
would have no say, whatsoever, in the placement of cell towers and the
deployment of broadband across our island.
I think it's important that we still have the ability to participate in the location.
We don't even understand yet I mean, there's a lot of neuroscience and a lot of
scientists looking at broadband and cell towers and not understanding yet, I think,
what the impacts are to certain people.
There's some states in the union, I want to point out to people, that actually will
not allow cell towers next to hospitals or next to senior facilities or next to schools
and childcare facilities, because they don't know about its impacts yet on the
brain.
So, you know, I mean it's just moving out. So, we saw that this is moving. It's in
the U.S. (United States) House of Representatives. It's sitting in Committee.
They have had a hearing on it, but yet it has not passed out to the whole House to
vote on it.
NACo (National Association of Counties) has put out a call for action, asking for
us, and I saw that, and I felt it was really important. So, thank you. I ask for your
support.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Any additional
discussion? Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I will be strongly supporting this resolution,
and I just want to point out that it was in the House Energy Committee. There
was no hearing. They took a vote without a public hearing. So, that is very
concerning. This would strip local governments' ability for land use authority.
We have oversight on zoning and various construction projects, and that is
something the Federal Government wants to strip away. Local governments
know communities best, and we want to make sure we are preserving those rights.
There are also some very concerning pieces in this legislation where, if a local
government is not making a decision on an application related to
telecommunications in a certain amount of time, it is deemed approved, and that
is very concerning. We're not trying to impede any processes, but we want to
make sure that we're doing due diligence anytime something related to this kind
of infrastructure is before our body. So, I will be supporting this.
The other thing that I want to note is there's a lot of funding that are provided by
the various franchises to support public TV(television). This would essentially
eliminate that. So, many communities around the country would not have public
TV stations funded by these franchisees anymore. So, a lot of concerning
elements, and I'm glad that you've taken it upon yourself, Council Member, to
elevate this issue on a local level and to send our strong support to NACo. Thank
you, yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Council
Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah. Thank you, too, Council Member Evans, for advancing
this. I think, you know,just around the broadband bill and some of the funding
that's available, is really to serve disadvantaged, underserved communities. But
to your point, right.
A lot of times when we're trying to provide services to the community, it's
building the pilina in community. And what this resolution does is ensure that
that can be developed as we move in offerings of broadband and all of the
services that go with it.
As Council Member Kierkiewicz mentioned, oftentimes when government
oversteps that building of pilina, that building of stakeholder communications, we
end up not getting exactly what we need. So, preserving that for our community
is the cornerstone of this resolution and why I strongly support this measure. I
yield.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Anyone else? Seeing
none, all those in favor of adopting Resolution 197-23, please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 197-23: The motion to adopt Res. 197-23 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: Resolution 197-23 is adopted.
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public.
PUBLIC ON
RES. 198-23 The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called by
(COMM. 338): the Chair:
Douglass Adams: In support.
(Research and Development Director)
Res. 198-23: AUTHORIZES THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH THE
CORPORATION FOR NATIONAL AND COMMUNITY SERVICE
Seeks to establish, through the AmeriCorps Volunteers in Service to America
Program, a Community Based Participatory Practice engagement that would
empower the community to identify, define, evaluate, and address its most pressing
challenges.
Reference: Comm. 338
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
Waived: FC
Motion to Approve: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to adopt Res. 198-23.
Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. As the Director stated,
this was waived to Council to expedite the process. I am in support of this. And I
do appreciate Mr. Adams' testimony today on behalf of himself, and I would
assume the agency as well, and look for everyone's support on this as well.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. A bunch of lights at once. I'll go with Council
Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. I just wanted to, well, thank you for keeping this
program going. I know that you've had some really wonderful volunteers that
have been helping with some of our key issues at R&D (Research and
Development) and at Planning, and I've interacted with many of them. I just
wanted to clarify, is this for the entire VISTA (Volunteers in Service to America)
program, or is this for a specific project within the VISTA program?
(Note: At this time, Research and Development Director Douglass Adams
came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. ADAMS: This is for a new three-year cohort of VISTAS that we were
recruiting to come to the County.
MS. GALIMBA: That would be for R&D and potentially Planning and any other
department that would want to participate?
MR. ADAMS: That's correct, Council Member.
MS. GALIMBA: Okay, thank you. Just wanted that clarified and definitely
support.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Galimba. We'll go over here to
Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Yes, good morning, Director Adams. I was just looking at your
justification sheet. It expects to benefit six most vulnerable County subdivisions
that have almost 60 to 70 percent of their households in poverty. Can you be
specific on what areas of the island that they would be working in?
MR. ADAMS: The areas that they work in, Council Member Evans, concerns the
entire County. So, it's not any particular district. There may be some areas, there
may be some projects, that are district-focused, but those projects will be
determined once the VISTAS are here.
MS. EVANS: Okay, thank you. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Vice Chair Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. This might be a question for Corporation Counsel.
Just being that we've had a program like this kind of running so far, and this one
is to sign a three-year agreement, and I hope that we can continue programs like
this, but are we required to have a resolution for every agreement that we'd be
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
entering into moving forward, being that we don't specify a term for working with
this specific program? Or would this be able to cover other agreements moving
forward with this same organization and program?
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward
to address the members of the Council.)
MS. STRANCE: Good morning, Council. Elizabeth Strance, Corporation
Counsel. May I address Mr. Adams?
CHR. KIMBALL: Yes, go ahead.
MS. STRANCE: Thank you. Doug, are you folks intending additional
agreements to support this, or is this just to allow funding to, or a broader
agreement to be reached with the VISTA folks?
MR. ADAMS: This would be the only one that we see as required to establish the
connection between us and the Federal organization here, the AmeriCorps, as a
part of the Corporation for National Community Service. We have the funding
budgeted. That's already been approved by the Council to the extent that we have
a little bit that we provide as well as what AmeriCorps provides to support these
folks coming in. There isn't any other requirement that I'm aware of.
MS. STRANCE: Will the funding bounce over to multiple years?
MR. ADAMS: The funding would be something that we would set up on an
annual basis because that's how we do our budgets. So, we would be asking the
Council for support of the amount that we support this program with. We don't
pay for the entire program. AmeriCorps obviously pays an amount, and then we
have an amount that we're invoiced. We would then request that amount as a part
of our budget.
MS. STRANCE: So, you have the AmeriCorps positions as budgeted positions
that the County's share is within your budget, and then there's a contribution later
from VISTA.
MR. ADAMS: Right, and I'm just going to be careful here. They're not
positions, so to speak, right; they're volunteers. And we recruit for them to take
on particular projects through the course of the year that they're here.
MS. STRANCE: I think it's okay. I would need to look a little more carefully,
but it seems like the positions are set aside. Generally, we're required to enter
into agreements with other governmental organizations. So, this would constitute
that, and this is part of the permission that is requested. Then, pursuant to that,
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
the department then will have these spaces within their budget for the positions
that, to the extent there is any expense related to the volunteers, those become
County-budgeted items.
But then the Council is aware that there will be these positions, and that there is
this relationship with governmental agencies. So, it seems to fit within that kind
of puka, and that's really my off-the-top-of-my-head thought. But just hearing
Mr. Adams describe it, that would be the general thought that I have.
MR. INABA: Thank you. Okay, so I just want to make sure. The question is
coming from a place to help the department moving forward, that if there are
going to be future agreements with the same program and the same Corporation
for National and Community Service, that they don't—I'm asking if they need to
come back here every time. Or, if we pass this resolution today, they don't need
to come back for future agreements, because it doesn't specify. It's not
agreement-specific.
That's what I'm hoping we can expedite in the future, because I'm assuming we
have already had this program to a certain extent or perhaps an agreement with
this organization before. This is starting a new three-year agreement. But if we
don't need to have them come forward every time, because we've already
authorized agreements with this organization and this program, then it saves
everybody time and the taxpayer dollars for us asking questions here right now.
So,just want to do that. We can find out after, but just as a means to help the
department moving forward, if they don't need to come back, then awesome, for
future agreements with the same program.
MS. STRANCE: I'd be a little uncomfortable giving an open-ended-forever kind
of authorization. Mr. Adams has suggested that these have defined periods of
time, and that's what this particular agreement is for. I can't speak for Mr. Adams
as to the length of the authority that he's requesting.
MR. INABA: Okay. It doesn't specify in any of the documents I see. So, I'll
take is as, and I have no problem giving support to "forever"right now, but if it
needs to specify moving forward terms within the resolution or within the B-52,
then perhaps we should include that. If not, then I guess we'll take it as we can
go; R&D can go ahead with Corporation for National and Community Service for
this program indefinitely and for future agreements. Does that make sense to you,
Director Adams?
MR. ADAMS: Yeah, thank you, Council Member Inaba. I apologize for the
vagueness of the resolution. It's our intent that this cover the three years. And if
in fact there is an extension to four down the road, we would anticipate actually
coming back, because that would be an extension of a known term. The three
years is the normal AmeriCorps cohort time period that they use, and that was our
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
intent for this particular resolution. If there was going to be another agreement,
we would anticipate coming back because it would be a separate time period for
that, and it would be a different agreement that we would end up having.
So, I appreciate the willingness to want us to carry through, but it's our intention
that this be time-limited to the three-year cohort that is the standard AmeriCorps
VISTA program.
MR. INABA: Okay, thank you very much. Chair, I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Inaba. Any other discussion?
Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah,just some clarifying questions. Thanks, Director Adams,
for being here. So, my understanding is this resolution will cover a 36-month
period. But on the other end of that spectrum is our annual budget, right, which
provides for the VISTA, correct?
MR. ADAMS: Yes, ma'am.
MS. LEE LOY: Is it the understanding of a VISTA when they join that they will
be retained for the entire 36-month period or just annually?
MR. ADAMS: Just annually. It's a one-year program for each of the volunteers.
MS. LEE LOY: Awesome. Yeah, you know what, I can support this going
forward. I think some of the clarifying things that Council Member Inaba brought
up is excellent. I think where I'm kind of looking ahead of the curve a little bit, is
when there's a turnover in Administration, right, that this agreement straddles.
Acknowledging that every annual budget invites in the next VISTA, then there's
an understanding there that they stay for the entire fiscal year, regardless of whom
is coming and going within the Administration. So, thank you. Thank you,
Mr. Adams.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Anyone else? Council
Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Just a follow-up.
Mr. Adams, how do you decide what the VISTAS will be studying or looking
into, or taking on as a project?
MR. ADAMS: We work with our specialists. Those are the mentors underneath
the program to identify the projects that make sense for the VISTAS. There's also
a recruitment process. So we have identified usually as a part of the project—let
me go back a little bit, even before that. The initial use of this particular program
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
is associated with resilience and recovery efforts. And that formed the thematic
nature of what the VISTAS would be coming to do for the next three years, and
then the extension into the fourth year.
This particular cohort is focused on sustainability. That's the thematic nature.
So, the projects that we have will be connected to those areas, and it's in the areas
that we have within the department, and that we also coordinate and collaborate
with Planning on. So, areas in energy and mobility, in climate. So, some of the
areas that—and economic interest as well. So, some of the areas that we have
projects that we're moving forward on, we will have sub-projects that are part of
that we will engage our VISTA volunteers on in a particular way.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for that; appreciate it. I yield,
Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Director Adams, it's great to see you.
Thank you for being here to provide more information. Is there any way for the
department to provide preference to local students? Local graduates who would
like to participate in the program? Like I understand this is supposed to attract
talent from across the country, but I'm just curious that if opportunities are
extended to our local kids?
MR. ADAMS: The opportunity is extended to everyone that actually applies in a
particular area. But I think the specific question about, is there is a preference
that we're allowed to provide, I'll have to get back to you on. If you pushed me
to answer that right now, I think the answer would be "no." I don't think we're
allowed to do that, being a Federal program, but I will check to see if, in fact, we
have the ability to provide that preference.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, that would be helpful to know. I know that VISTAS
don't earn a lot for the incredible work that they are producing for whatever
organization they join. Are there other funds that are available to help supplement
cost of living once they enter the program?
MR. ADAMS: Thank you for that question. Before he left, our Deputy Director,
Bob Agres, worked with the University of Hawaii at Hilo. And actually, I think
that you all passed a resolution within the last year, potentially beyond that, that
allowed for the use of UH Hilo (University of Hawaii at Hilo)residential dorms
to serve as potential places for our VISTAS to live. To this point, I'm not aware
that actually any of them have made use of that opportunity, but that is another
example where we were trying to reduce the cost of living for the VISTAS that we
were bringing in.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, that's helpful. Then going forward, I actually would
appreciate if the departments would come forward to the Council and provide an
overview of any type of agreements that our County is entering into. I understand
and appreciate the need and the desire to be efficient, but it's also important for us
to know what sort of programs are happening within our County so that we can
ensure that our residents have the opportunity to take advantage.
If we have any questions, if things seem peculiar, we have the ability in a public
forum to ask questions and ensure that it is something that we can get behind and
support. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Anyone further
discussion or comments? Seeing none, all those in favor, please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 198-23: The motion to adopt Res. 198-23 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: Resolution 198-23 is adopted. We'll move to Bills for First
Reading.
BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, Bills for
ORDINANCES Ordinances (First Reading).
(FIRST READING):
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
Bill 230: PROVIDES FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAII
(Draft 2) DOWNTOWN HILO BUSINESS IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT NO. 2, AS
(2020-2022) AUTHORIZED BY CHAPTER 35 OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983
(2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO BUSINESS
IMPROVEMENT DISTRICTS
Proposes the formation of a Business Improvement District to finance certain
supplemental public safety, sanitation, landscaping, and maintenance services and
infrastructure improvements in Downtown Hilo, to be funded by assessments on
313 commercial properties within the district boundaries at an assessed rate of
$1.50 for every $1,000 of"Total Net Taxable Value" of each parcel of land, for a
total estimated budget of$367,000 for the first operating year of the proposed
Business Improvement District.
Reference: Comm. 1060.11
Intr. by: Ms. Kimball
Approve: FC-228
Postponed: November 16 and December 21,
2022, and March 8, 2023
Public Hearing: February 7, 2023 (recessed to
February 24, 2023)
Proceedings Ceased: April 5, 2023, pursuant to
Section 35-13(b) of the Hawaii
County Code
(Note: There is a motion by Mr. Chung, seconded by Mr. Inaba, to pass Bill 230,
as amended, on first reading.)
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Clerk.
Motion to Postpone: Ms. Kagiwada moved to postpone Bill 230, Draft 2, to the
call of the Chair. Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kagiwada, on the motion?
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much. Thank you, Chair, and thank you,
everybody, for being patient as we work with the public to really hear and
understand what their feelings are around this.
The reason I am moving to postpone to the call of the Chair is mainly two-fold.
One is, I've met with and heard from many business owners and property owners
in the Downtown Hilo area. While they really understand the need for some kind
of organization that can help with improvement in the downtown area and work
with the County, they feel strongly that this BID (Business Improvement District)
is not the correct vehicle at this point. So, I want to respect them.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
They really feel like they can pull together organization, and they have an
organization called the Downtown Improvement Association, and they're in the
process of basically restarting that; getting a full board and coming up with an
action plan. I believe we have the current, I guess it's the acting president at this
point, and several members here today. So, I really want to respect their efforts
and their wishes there.
The reason I'm also asking to postpone to the call of the Chair, though, is because
while this motion indicates that I don't plan to bring this up again, it is still a
possible tool down the line. If for instance, you know, everybody were to decide
tomorrow that they actually don't want to do the DIA (Downtown Improvement
Association) and they want to walk away from that but they want another vehicle.
So, it allows that to just kind of be out there. I don't plan to bring it back unless
the community really comes to me and says that we would like to bring it back.
But I do want, in case, as they work together to go forward, they discover that
they would like to use this tool, I don't want to take it completely out of the
toolbox. So, that's my rationalization on that, and love to hear from my
colleagues.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Any other
comments? Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: On the postponement. Listening very carefully. I think,
acknowledging that this is a tool for future use, my concern is actually the active
motion started with a former colleague of ours. And I'm just I don't know if
this is a question for our Clerk or for Corporation Counsel, if a motion can
continue to be carried through over the course of different Council terms, and the
staleness or the viability of it. That's where I'm at.
I understand that the motion really does shelve the entire thing. And if it is the
intent to shelve it for this Council term, I don't see the harm in just voting it up or
downI know which way I'm going to vote—which would actually give ease to
the community as to what finality is on this bill. And it wouldn't hurt if it was to
be brought up in a future Council term, which is something that can be done. You
can resurrect all of the same language and present it in a more current form.
Those are my thoughts on the postponement.
I personally will be voting against the postponement. I want to see it go up for a
vote. I think it would provide a lot of understanding in community as to what this
body would like to do, especially because we did get a survey as to who wanted it
or not. Those are my thoughts and where I will be voting on the postponement to
the call of the Chair. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Council Member
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much, Chair. I think
Ms. Cabral said it quite well, though she's not here anymore, and she's outside.
She had some nice beads on necklaces today. I wanted to ask her about that, but
she's not here to answer my questions. I like what she said in that this could be a
tool to use to help Hilo get back together to what we see it as being. So, I'll be
supporting the postponement.
If there is a chance at some point down the line in this Council term to bring it
back with everyone's support, then so be it and I'll support that. If not, then it
goes away and it dies. So, I like to keep options open rather than close doors, and
I'd be following Ms. Kagiwada's sentiments on this as well.
We listened closely to the testimonies, and I think the return was negative against
the Business Improvement District. Mr. Chung did bring this forward and leave
this for us as one of his last motions in office, which is fun for all of us to be here
and go through that. But I do think there is a tool here that could be used if it was
done correctly and if you had the support of the community behind it. So, with
that, I'll be supporting the postponement and I like the idea. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Council
Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. In strong support of the motion before us. Being a
newI'm almost through my first year, so I'm not on the honeymoon yet. But I
saw how much work it took for the Clerk and the mailing to all the tax map
people. Then we had a Council Meeting saying people on the Mainland didn't
hear it. So, the effort it took to reach all of the landowners and get everybody's
input on it, I would hate to not keep this as an option in the future if we need it in
this particular term, because so much work, so much community input.
There is, I think, the sentiment is leaning towards not supporting it, but there still
is people that's supporting it. So, I think that today's testimony tells me that you
want to do it yourselves. You want to create your own destiny in downtown, and
I love that.
I just encourage you by looking at Section 2 of Bill 230. They list numerous
things that they think needs to be addressed. So, you kind of have in front of you
the things that were identified. Some of these things probably need to have the
Director of Public Works, the Director of Planning, maybe the Council people
starting to work on individual things that have already been highlighted, because
there's some really good work here and I wouldn't want to lose the good work
that's been put into this. But I definitely like your suggestion and very
supportive. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Vice Chair Inaba.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MR. INABA: Sorry, Corporation Counsel, regarding the assessments. Assuming
that the $1.50 would stay the same on every $1,000 of value, would public
hearings need to be redone, being that what's in the bill as an exhibit specifies a
certain first-year price that these property owners would need to be paying if the
bill was to pass? So, yeah. Sorry, I let me restate the question. Would we need
to redo the public hearing process after one fiscal year when the assessments
change?
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward
to address the members of the Council.)
MS. STRANCE: May I have a moment to consult with the Clerk? I have a
couple of concerns about a"postponement indefinitely." Just kind of off the top
of my head, the votes are made based upon property ownership at a time-specific.
How much time can go by where that integrity of that vote could change
depending on how rapidly ownership for a leasehold interest change.
This body deals with postponements a little bit differently than how things are set
up in Robert's Rules about what carries over from one session to another. So, the
comment about it eventually dying, I want to have a quick conversation with our
Clerk about whether there's ever a true death of a bill if it's postponed
indefinitely, and there's not a practice or protocol that automatically cuts a bill
off.
So, like at the State Legislature, you have a pass-over date for things. The bill
just doesn't pass. But given the work that this body does, particularly with
landowners, not to have things rollover for like a land use change or a zoning
change would really work a hardship on applicants. So, your practice has not
been to have that cut-off date. So, I just want a brief consultation and then, you
know, if I have something more to add to the conversation on that, then we can do
it.
I understand the urge on that. It's just whether the integrity to the process is
retained if there's an extension or postponement for too long. So, would that be
all right?
CHR. KIMBALL: That will be fine. We can table this briefly. Although I
would, with the body's leeway here, reflect that Council Clerk Henricks and I
have had previous conversations about these postponements either to the call of
the Chair or to a time indeterminate. And as you said, we do not have a process to
remove them once the term has ended. And so they do end up in sort of a
purgatory state where there isn't any movement.
I think that, for the body, one of the rules that we abide by, per Robert's Rules, is
that if something in a term is voted down, something substantially similar cannot
be brought back within the same term. So, the mechanism of postponement is
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
often utilized so that we withdraw something, we don't take a negative vote on it;
and therefore, it can still be brought back even in another form as another bill
within the same term. So, that's the consideration here, I think, is, given that we
still have a year-and-a-half of this particular term. If you were unable to bring
back this item within that time period, is that okay? And looking at the next time
that we could actually discuss a BID being in the term that starts in 2024. That
would be the question.
MR. INABA: Well, thank you for bringing that up. I'd prefer, based on the
feedback we got from the public, to not see a postponement, and we could just
wipe this at this point. And if we redo our process or improve what we have in
our Code, that would be preferable. But at the same time, don't want to tie our
hands with regards to something that could come in the next year-and-a-half. So,
with that, I will support the postponement at this time. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Vice Chair Inaba. Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I don't know if it was Council Member Aaron
Chung's intention to actually have a BID move forward. I think he recognized
that there are a lot of issues within the downtown area, and this is a tool that's in
Council's toolbox that we are able to leverage. This model works very
successfully in Kailua-Kona, but it just might not be the right fit for every single
community. But I think, in his wisdom,putting this forward brought the
community together and really energized everybody in having a sense of agency
over their space within Downtown Hilo.
I would actually vote against a postponement to the Call to the Chair and here's
why. If this is something that the community wants, let's start from the
beginning. I think the waters on this particular bill are tainted, and a lot of folks
felt that they were not in-the-know or part of the process. So, if this is something
that the community truly wants, they should be a part of designing a BID from
scratch.
So, I would be supporting taking a vote on this measure. And if this is something
that the community decides down the line this is something that they want to
explore, they've exhausted all options of collaboration through DIA, then let's
start from scratch with the community's blessing and being part of helping shape
it.
If money is an issue, all Council Members have been provided $100,000 in
contingency monies. So, there is monies I'm sure that Council Member
Kagiwada is able to help provide support for for doing some pilot projects. Just
throwing it out there. It's something that I do to support my Mainstreet Pahoa
Association in Downtown Pahoa. So, that's where I stand on the measure. Thank
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
you all so much for continuing to come out—showing up,public hearings,
Council meetings to let us know what you believe in, and happy to help
supporting you and your cause. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Any further
discussion? Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, and thank you all for chiming in. I really
appreciate it. I hear what you're saying. I've had extensive conversations. I
attended one of the DIA meetings. I had extensive conversations with
Clerk Henricks, and really feel like this is the best way to go.
Like I say, it also serves as a way to kind of keep our foot on the pedal here to
make something happen in downtown. If the downtown folks try really hard for
the next year-and-a-half and then come back to me and say, "We tried. It didn't
work, and we really want to explore this option,"I think it's a good tool to keep in
our toolbox. As noted, after this term is over, it would basically be dead anyway,
and could restart.
That being said, if—there's been lots of discussions with people who were
originally completely against the idea. Like Nancy Cabral and others who came
around to see, there could be pluses there. So, I think with tweaks to this bill later
on, if people want it, it's a tool. So, I just don't want to take that out of our
toolbox. And I appreciate people's support. Thank you so much and hope we can
go forward with this. Thanks.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Council
Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, and to my fellow colleague of Hilo, I think there are a lot
of mechanics that are happening with the annual cycle of our real property tax and
the setting of that. So, I just don't want to mislead the public that we can just
resuscitate this.
And including my colleague Mr. Inaba's concern about the survey. I mean,
Judge Strance is asking for a consultation with our Clerk specifically to the
viability of the notice to property owners for the survey. I'm having a lot of
heartburn. We passed a resolution earlier today ensuring that we would have
stakeholder engagement and community would be driving this. I would love for
Judge Strance to have a pause with our Clerk on some of the nuances of all of this
and kind of advise us as to the proper disposition of this matter. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: So, this is a question for Judge Strance. I'm just wanting to ask
about substantially similar. Would it be possible, if we vote this down, for
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
another bill to come in with a Business Improvement District in Downtown Hilo,
but with potentially very different details? Would that be substantially similar or
would that be something that would be allowable? If you want to discuss with the
County Clerk, I just wanted to throw that in there as something I'd like to
understand better.
CHR. KIMBALL: I'll respond to that, Judge Strance. It's actually up to this
body to make the determination as to whether a subsequent bill would be
substantially similar. It is within our rules, and we do have the ability to waive
our rules. However, I would recommend strongly against consideration of
waiving the rules around what we determine to be substantially similar. So, it
would be the determination of the body if it was substantially similar or not per
vote. Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mr. Clerk, may I make a motion to table
Bill 230 until a further time in this meeting?
MR. BROWN: You could ask the Chair to acknowledge the motion. And if
there's a second, then we can.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
Vote on Motion to Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to table Bill 230, Draft 2.
Table: Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball–9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: Okay, Bill 230, Draft 2, is tabled. At this point, we will move
on to—let's take Bill 52, and then we will take a brief recess to give
Judge Strance and the Clerk an opportunity to talk.
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public.
PUBLIC ON
BILL 52 The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by
(COMM. 326): the Chair:
Keli`ikanoe Mahi: In support.
(representing Hiki Ola)
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
Thomas Pace: In support.
(representing Kealakekua Heritage Ranch)
Carolyn Pallett: In opposition.
Bill 52: REPEALS ORDINANCE NO. 98-63, WHICH AMENDED ORDINANCE
NO. 95-70, AND REPEALS ORDINANCE NO. 95-70, WHICH AMENDED
SECTION 25-86 (NORTH AND SOUTH KONA DISTRICTS ZONE MAP),
ARTICLE 3, CHAPTER 25 (ZONING CODE) OF THE HAWAII COUNTY
CODE, BY CHANGING THE DISTRICT CLASSIFICATION FROM
AGRICULTURAL-TWENTY ACRES (A-20a) TO AGRICULTURAL-ONE
ACRE (A-la), AGRICULTURAL-THREE ACRES (A-3a), AGRICULTURAL-
TWO HUNDRED ACRES (A-200a), AGRICULTURAL-TWO HUNDRED
FIFTY-FIVE ACRES (A-255a), AND AGRICULTURAL—EIGHT THOUSAND
ACRES (A-8000a) AT KEALAKEKUA, KILOA, WAIPUNAULA, KALAMA
KUMU, AND KALAMAKOWALI, SOUTH KONA, HAWAII, COVERED BY
TAX MAP KEYS: 8-2-012:001, 012, 014 (POR.), 015, AND 8-2-001:101
(FORMERLY TAX MAP KEYS: 8-2-012:012 AND A PORTION OF 001)
(Planning Director Initiated) (Area: Approx. 11,185.708 acres)
Due to the lack of quorum, the Leeward Planning Commission forwards its
unfavorable recommendation to repeal the change of zoning district clarification for
five parcels located approximately 1.2 miles east of the Hawaii Belt Road in the
vicinity of Greenwell Mountain Road and extending approximately 8.6 miles
further east. The repeal would revert the zoning of these lands back to the
Agricultural 20-acres (A-20a) zoning district.
Reference: Comm. 326
Intr. by: Mr. Inaba(B/R)
Approve: LAAC-23
Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to pass Bill 52 on first reading and adopt
Legislative Approvals and Acquisitions Committee Report
No. 23. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
CHR. KIMBALL: Vice Chair Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. I believe we have additional property owners joining
us today, as well as the representative for this application. We had good
discussion at Committee, and again Mr. Hendrickson here is able to answer any
questions, should the body have any. Look forward to seeing this bill move
forward today. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Vice Chair Inaba. And just a quick note, I was
alerted by the Planning Department that they did not have any staff available
today for questions for the Planning Department. For those of you that were not
present for our last hearing on this, we did get quite a bit of information from the
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
Planning Department. So, I think we can all help each other out with respect to
that, but we also have the applicant's representative here. Are there any questions
on Bill 52? Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I was going to ask what the recusals were
for regarding the Leeward Planning Commission.
CHR. KIMBALL: I don't know. Mr. Hendrickson, if you are aware of the
conflicts that resulted in the lack of quorum?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And by whom.
(Note: At this time, Gregory Hendrickson, applicant's representative,
came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. HENDRICKSON: I'm not sure by who. They didn't give us the specifics of
who wasn't able to participate because of conflict. But I understand that they just
related to people who had relationships with one of the various owners of this
parcel. So, I think one was a former manager for the Greenwell family of the
parcel. One has a hunting lease on another parcel that is owned by one of the
owners, and I can't remember what all of them were, but they all had relational
conflicts.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Do you know, behind you? Yeah? Can you
answer my question? If you can, come to the front. I'm interested.
(Note: At this time, Thomas Pace, representing Kealakekua Heritage
Ranch, came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. PACE: It's just as Mr. Hendrickson spoke of because we allow some
hunting on the property. We'd made some donations at some organizations that
were part of the Planning Commission members. It was mainly because of
friendly connections was the reason for the recusal.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, and do you know who the members
were?
MR. PACE: Yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Who were they?
MR. PACE: Mrs. DeFranco, where we helped her with Paleaku Botanical
Gardens many years past, in the early '90s. And what's the gentleman to the
left? He does all the hunting. Vitousek. So, he hunts on our adjoining property
next door.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, and then the third one?
MR. PACE: It was some sort of donation we did, and I don't recall their name.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. That was very helpful. I
wasn't here for the last meeting. Sorry. So excuse my kind of catching up. I
think moving from Ag-1 to Ag-20, if I'm reading this correctly, is more than
suitable. I'd rather see it Ag-20 than Ag-1, and I kind of agree with where you
guys stand so far. I'll be supporting this today. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. The
information about the Leeward Planning Commission meeting is available in the
supplemental documents, which are available digitally to us now. Council
Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. My question would be with Corporation Counsel,
Ms. Strance. On your way up, I was reading in the report that, due to a lack of
quorum, the Leeward Planning Commission forwarded an unfavorable
recommendation. If they had lack of quorum, how could they even forward a
recommendation? Because I assume that would be a vote, and you can't vote if
you don't have quorum. I'm just being logical here.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward
to address the members of the Council.)
MS. STRANCE: Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. And that will teach
you to be logical. I believe that it's a part of the Commission rules, that if there
lacks a quorum, that it still comes before this body without a favorable
recommendation. So, that's part of their rules.
MS. EVANS: It's just an automatic unfavorable?
MS. STRANCE: Yeah. I mean the idea the Windward and Leeward Planning
Commissions are not in all cases gatekeepers of matters coming before this body.
They're a"review and recommend"body for the most part, and so, if they lack
the quorum then they lack the ability to make a favorable recommendation.
Generally, under Robert's Rules of Order, for example, if you lack a majority
vote, it's a"no"vote. So, Leeward Planning Commission matters come here with
either a favorable or an unfavorable recommendation. So, a lack of quorum vote
comes with a non-favorable recommendation.
MS. EVANS: Okay. All right. For the ones who did the public hearing and
heard all the testimony and really discussed it, I'm going to assume that we could
look at their votes, and there might be a couple that were in favor and a couple
that weren't in favor.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MS. STRANCE: I believe you folks are provided with the record at the
commission or at least links to all of that. So, you have all of the information that
is available to you as part of your consideration of the bill.
MS. EVANS: So, I'm just hoping they took a vote. If they didn't even have
quorum, could they have still taken a vote so we'd understand their position on it?
MS. STRANCE: They cannot. The way the rules are written is that if a
committee, this body included, lacks a quorum, it doesn't mean that you cannot
hold a meeting. It just means that you cannot vote. So, there's circumstances
where people come to present and the body can proceed to have that information
presented to it. But it would not be permitted to vote on the matter.
MS. EVANS: Right. I think what struck me is that they didn't wait. They didn't
wait until they got quorum, like postpone to the next meeting or two meetings,
because they can't. Because they will always have that conflict of interest. They
could have never gotten quorum on this.
MS. STRANCE: Correct.
MS. EVANS: Okay. Thank you, I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Council Member Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. Just for the record, Section 25-2-43 speaks to, if action
is not taken within the 60-day period, then it comes to us with an unfavorable
recommendation. So, that's why it's before us because the Commission didn't
take action on this bill. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you for that clarification, Council Member Inaba. Any
additional discussion? Seeing none, there's a motion on the floor to pass Bill 52
at first reading, all those in favor please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 52: The motion to pass Bill 52 on first reading and adopt
(Approved) Legislative Approvals and Acquisitions Committee Report
No. 23 was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: Bill 52 passes at first reading. Thank you guys for being here
today. At this time, do you folks need some time to confer on ?
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MR. BROWN: Yeah, a really quick recess if you don't mind, Madam Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Okay, let's take a recess until 11:10.
Recess: At 11:02 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 11:13 a.m.
Vote on Motion to Ms. Lee Loy moved to remove Bill 230, Draft 2, from the
Remove from table. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the following
Table: voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: We have Bill 230, Draft 2, back to the floor. Council Member
Kagiwada, do you want to start us off with the conversation from Corp.
(Corporation) Counsel and the Clerk?
MS. KAGIWADA: Sure. Thank you so much. I guess I'd like to hear from
Judge Strance, since the question was asked of her, what the difference between
if we do postponing to the call of the chair, what that means. I think it would be
really good to have a clear explanation as far as what could and couldn't be done
in the future. And I don't know if that's you or the Clerk, but if somebody could
get that clear kind of presentation to the public, it would be great.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance) came
forward to address the members of the Council.)
MS. STRANCE: Could I ask the Clerk to read the rule?
MR. BROWN: So I'm going to read from the Council's rules. Usually, Robert's
Rules is our guiding light; however, should a board or commission have their own
internal rules, they follow those. We revert back to Robert's when you may not
have a rule that would handle something. So Robert's is going to be a little
different from how you guys handled it based on the Council's rules.
So I'm going to read the postponement to the call of the Chair. "When a question
is postponed to the call of the Chair, the same shall not be acted upon again or
revived at any subsequent meeting of the Council so disposed of such questions
unless by request of the Council or Committee Chairperson. This motion
indicates that a Committee or Council declines to take a position on the main
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
question and the adoption of the amendment effectively kills the main motion.
The motion must be seconded, is debatable, is not amendable, and requires a
majority vote. (Examples: `I move to postpone this matter to the call of the
Chair,' or `I move to postpone Resolution or Bill `X' to the call of the Chair.')"
MS. STRANCE: So that's your rule. It's different than Robert's Rules, which
would require a vote of this body to then consider it. So it would the "call of the
Chair,"the Chair places it back, your practice has been ended, placing the motion
back on calendar for further consideration and vote, rather than a vote of the body
to decide whether to take it off the table, essentially. So there would be a
mechanism by which you could table to call of the Chair. And so, procedurally,
there's a process. And then there's some practicalities of the underlying motion.
And so the public feedback function of this bill was based upon a determination
of who the property owners were within a specified period of time on that certain
date when they looked, and at some level based upon the then real property tax
rates. So there's two methods of calculating how votes are taken. And so, if the
assessed value of the property changes in a way that would affect how the vote
was taken, the bill runs the risk of having challenges based upon process because
the representation has changed.
I don't want to take words out of the Clerk's mouth, so you can correct me. It
would be the Clerk's advice that, should something come back before this body at
all or if it comes back with changes, that the recommendation would be to re-
notice the community and undertake the public process again. And so I think the
question for this body to decide, then, is what does the postponement actually
achieve. And so I think those are all considerations of, you know, there's the
question of can you do it, and then should you do it. The answer is, it appears that
you can. It's not without risk because of the passage of time. And the question
"should" is taking into consideration the process that the Clerk would want to and
recommend that you undertake, and whatever other factors you have. And then
that's the policy decision that you have to decide.
MS. KAGIWADA: Great. Thank you, Judge Strance. Clerk, do you want to add
anything?
MR. BROWN: Not much. Thank you, Judge Strance. I think she did a great job
of articulating that. Just from a procedural standpoint, I think, yes, even if it was
brought back in the same fashion, I would recommend we start the entire public
hearing process, the notices. We would start everything again to make sure we
give the community more than enough opportunity to come in and weigh in and
give their feedback for you guys. We were actually considering even if you guys
were just going to change a little bit of the rate, even just a little, we would have
started that whole public hearing process again to make sure the public was totally
aware and had opportunity. So, yeah,just wanted to add that. That is my
recommendation. Thank you.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Do I still have the floor? Okay, thanks, Chair.
One other thing that I think was important that I didn't know before was the
information about what happens to a bill that is moved to the call of the Chair at
the end of the session. Can you speak to that briefly?
MS. STRANCE: Well, that would be two parts because, one, it's putting a time
limit on which the Chair must call it. So it would come back on the calendar at
the last meeting, if not before. You still have some of those same issues because
we have a new assessment year now. And there would be one more at the end of
this session. So the idea of taking it up at the end would be the recommendation
from your Clerk would be if you did that, you'd be voting on this or some other
amendment. And if there was going to be amendments, that the procedure would
have started over, which takes you, again, into another calendar year—maybe not
a fiscal year, but possibly a whole new set of Council Members.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah, actually, I was referring to the fact that I was under the
assumption that at the end of the session, the bill is dead. But you're saying that
we actually still have to figure out a way to dispose of it. Is that correct?
MS. STRANCE: The practice of this body has not been to have bills die. So
there's probably a fair amount of legislation that is in purgatory, and you are too,
right? So there's practical reasons that that was done, you know, the—I guess the
cleaner way would be to give a bill death or life, but that really is a policy and
there's been practical considerations for that.
Withdraw Motion MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. All right. Given that it sounds like if we were to do
to Postpone: anything to change this bill, we would probably want a new bill anyway, and my
thoughts are even if the Downtown Hilo community comes back, the form that the
bill is currently in is not the form that they would want if they did want to go
ahead with something. I'm going to withdraw my motion to the call of the Chair
if that's okay.
CHR. KIMBALL: Yup, that's your prerogative as the motion maker.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay yeah, if anybodyI guess I'm done. I'm going to be
voting down the main motion then and then realizing that we can always start
anew if that's what the public wants.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Any further
discussion?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: One more dumb question.
CHR. KIMBALL: I was about to say there are no dumb questions, but you
know
Page 28
Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Let me blow your mind.
CHR. KIMBALL: Okay, go for it.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just to ask, we've discussed you cannot
bring a bill back in the same form in the same Council term. If Ms. Kagiwada or
Ms. Lee Loy or anyone here said, "Hey, I want to bring this back to the table; I
want to do this again," can it be done again this term?
CHR. KIMBALL: So if I
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: And I would say it's substantively
CHR. KIMBALL: And it would be up to this body to make an assessment as to
whether or not it was substantially different. So Council Member Kagiwada is
taking a risk that what she would potentially propose would not be determined to
be substantially different. That's the risk here.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But, and adding to that, if the body decided
to go ahead and bring it back, we could, correct?
CHR. KIMBALL: If we determined that it was substantially different, yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Which would be hard to do.
CHR. KIMBALL: Yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. BROWN: If I could real fast. This motion, now, to the call of the Chair has
been removed. If you guys vote it down, you're not bringing back the same bill,
right? It'll be a new bill and you will determine if that new bill is substantially
different or not. Just wanted to make that clear; you're not bringing the same one
back.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, and I'm discussing Bill 230 but I'm
also just discussing in general. Thank you, I appreciate it. Thank you for the
leeway. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, and I
don't think that was a dumb question. Okay, any further discussion? All right,
with that, I will just say that, personally, one of the things that I have had to learn
in this position is patience. And I think that, actually a year and a half, even if
there was this issue of substantially similar, it's probably more than enough time
for the community to do their work and to redraft a new bill and go through the
multiple iterations. So I think you've made the right decision here to actually just
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
proceed with the vote on this and then we can start fresh, do those new
assessments, and really do this right and meet the needs of the community. So I'll
be supporting a negative vote as well on the bill today.
With that, any further discussion? I don't think we need to take a roll call. I'm
going to just call for the vote on this. All those in favor of Bill 230, please say
Ic aye.
Vote on Bill 230: The motion to pass Bill 230, Draft 2, on first reading and
Draft 2 adopt Finance Committee Report No. 228 failed by the
(2020-2022) following voice vote:
Failed
Ayes: None.
Noes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—9.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: Bill 230, Draft 2, fails at first reading. Thank you, everyone,
for the discussion. Thank you for being here. All right, with that, we will move
to second and final reading.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, Order of
THE DAY the Day (Second or Final Reading).
(SECOND OR
FINAL READING):
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public.
PUBLIC ON
BILL 28 The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called by
(DRAFT 2) the Chair:
(COMM. HID:
Carolyn Pallett: In opposition.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
Bill 28: AMENDS CHAPTER 19, ARTICLE 7, SECTION 19-53 AND ARTICLE 10,
(Draft 2) SECTION 19-71, OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION,
AS AMENDED), RELATING TO REAL PROPERTY TAXES
Safeguards certain agriculturally productive properties which are also used as an
owner's primary residence or as an affordable rental from rising assessment
values.
Reference: Comm. 113.2
Intr. by: Mr. Inaba
Postponed: March 22, April 19, and May 17, 2023
First Reading: June 21, 2023
Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to pass Bill 28, Draft 2, on second and
final reading. Seconded by Ms. Galimba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Vice Chair Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. We had a lot of discussion, and I ask for your
continued support. And wanted to offer one final mahalo to Corporation Counsel
and to our Real Property Tax Division's Lisa Miura and Keita Jo for their k6kua.
I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Vice Chair Inaba. Anyone else? Council Member
Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I see we have Keita here, and I believe is Lisa
in Kona?
MR. RUEDY: Yeah, she's here.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thanks for being here and your patience. We're at second
and final reading, and I'm just wondering if Real Property Tax can just illuminate
the Council on implementation of this bill should it be approved today.
(Note: At this time, Real Property Tax Administrator Lisa Miura and
Assistant Real Property Tax Administrator Keita Jo, Finance Department,
came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MS. MIURA: Hi, good morning. Lisa Miura, Real Property Tax Administrator.
It is a short time frame, so our thought to implement this is that we need to send
letters to everybody currently receiving a homeowner exemption and an
agricultural preferential value currently in the system. We are not going to have
time to go to all there's over 2,000 properties that are currently getting both.
So we're not going to be able to do a survey or check each parcel before January
1st to make sure there's no short-term rental, long-term rental, or commercial
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
activity. An example might be someone doing a slaughterhouse on their property.
And so that would preclude them from the homeowner tax class. And some of
those might want to prefer to stay in the agricultural tax class and continue their
short-term rentals, if they're hosted especially.
And so our thought was we would send letters to everybody; let them know that
they'd be converted over to the homeowner tax class. And if they're doing any of
those activities, to let us know. If not and they don't let us know which—staff's
concern is most people are going to say, "Well, catch me if you can," and they're
going to take the lower value. But if we find that later, then it would be a
rollback, including 10 percent penalty.
MR. JO: Keita Jo, Assistant Real Property Tax Administrator. I'd just like to add
that it is going to be a huge lift for us in terms of implementation and the timing.
I mean, as Lisa mentioned, there's 2,000 parcels that we will need to reinspect at
some point. So there might be individuals within that program that receive the
benefit that might end up receiving a rollback at a later time. I just wanted to put
that out there.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: How long is all of that going to take? You have to send
the letters and then assess the properties and then, I'm assuming, communicate
with each individual property owner to make sure we got it right in our system so
they're taxed appropriately. Do you guys have the staffing and time for that
because there's—and I'm sorry. I hope we can maybe speak globally because we
have a number of real property tax bills before us today. Just want to make sure
that there's enough resources available to be implementing these measures.
MR. JO: For this particular measure, it would be pushed out. We would transfer
everybody into the homeowners tax classification. The inspections,
2000 properties, you're talking about a one-to two-year process in order to do all
those reinspects. So it's not something that's going to happen fairly quickly.
It's going to add some additional pressure to our appraisers who will be
conducting the inspections, our clerical staff who will need to address any
concerns with the taxpayers, as well as our board of review. Oftentimes, we don't
think about that, but an individual does have the opportunity to file a protest if
they feel aggrieved by our assessment. So there's that process along the way too.
But, yeah, it's going to be a little bit of a long haul.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Anything to add, Administrator Miura?
MS. MIURA: Nope. Thank you. I think Keita covered any concerns we had.
We just wanted to, since you asked the question,just share what our thought
process was since we won't be able to do the inspections prior to January 1.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Thank you for that information. Chair, I yield.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Council Member
Evans.
MS. EVANS: This is kind of technical and it's page 3, Subsection 5. It talks
about"Notwithstanding paragraph 19-71(a)(2)(E) above, having portions of the
principal home located on the real property used exclusively as residential
housing rental for a term of not less than six months . . . ." So this is actually
talking about long-term versus short-term rentals. So now we've established six
months. And will that be in conflict with anything else we might do in our Code
if we're addressing long-term versus short-term? Because, we are saying in here
it's six months.
MR. JO: Currently, the Real Property Tax Division identifies short-term as
anything less than six months. So that's our definition as far as property taxes are
concerned. So that actually falls more in line with what we would normally
define as a short-term rental.
MS. EVANS: Okay, so this would appear in our Code elsewhere, the six months.
MR. JO: Yeah.
MS. EVANS: Okay. Just for consistency. I had to ask because I didn't want us
to create a conflict if it's mentioned in other places in the Code. Okay. Thank
you. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. Keita, Lisa, thanks for being here. Just the
mechanics of it and building off of my colleague Council Member Kierkiewicz,
I'm noting that this bill takes effect on January 2024. And speaking to some of
the mechanics that the department needs to put in place, clearly there's some time.
My question is, in light of this bill moving through and the mechanics that have to
happen to shove everybody, or place everybody, not shove, place everybody in
the right category, I don't know if I'm going to ask this right, if the Council were
to address rates, would that in essence kind of freeze some of the potential of the
rates for the properties that fall within this category?
MS. MIURA: Can I clarify the question real quick?
MS. LEE LOY: Sure, Lisa.
MS. MIURA: Is it tax classifications you're thinking might change? Because
before January, we're not changing tax classes, that I know of, or the actual tax
rates to each class.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MS. LEE LOY: I think I was asking about the rates to the class, right. And just
trying to think around the curve a little bit, because we've had a windfall of a year
when it came to real property tax values. But I listened very carefully to you and
Deanna about let's brace for the potential recession, right. And not that I don't
support it; I'm just thinking through the future mechanics of it and what that does
for our ability to kind of move those levers as it relates to rates.
MS. MIURA: So this would change anybody in the home—with getting a
homeowner exemption doing active ag (agriculture) that wasn't doing short-term
rental or commercial to get the $6.15 tax rate now. So I'm guessing it would
potentially affect if Council, next year, came back and said, "We want to make
the ag tax rate lower than homeowners." Right now, the agricultural tax rate is
9.35.
If Council came back and said, "We're going to make the agricultural tax rate
$5,"then potentially everybody we move into this program could have paid less
in the long-run. I'm not really good at the potential thoughts, but I don't see
Council doing that because half the island is zoned ag, and a lot of parcels are in
ag that are not doing active agricultural use. So I don't see that as a potential
conflict. But maybe I'm not thinking that question all the way through or if I'm
answering that correctly.
MS. LEE LOY: No, Lisa, you're being incredibly helpful. And if at some point
this body does start exploring those options, I think we have to be gently
reminded about some of these things that we are moving in, especially because
this particular bill has an effective date in January of '24.
MS. MIURA: Correct.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay, I'm good. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.
Thank you. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Any further questions or comments? All right,
with that, we'll go ahead with the vote. All those in favor of adopting Bill 28,
Draft 2, at second and final reading, please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 28: The motion to pass Bill 28, Draft 2, on second and final
Draft 2 reading was carried by the following voice vote:
(Adopted)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball–9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
Page 34
Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
CHR. KIMBALL: Bill 28, Draft 2, is adopted.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Chair Kimball relinquished the chair to Acting
Chair Inaba.
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public.
PUBLIC ON
BILL 43 The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called by
(DRAFT 3) the Chair:
(COMM. 217.8):
Carolyn Pallett: In opposition.
Bill 43: AMENDS CHAPTER 19,ARTICLES 1 AND 8, OF THE HAWAII COUNTY
(Draft 3) CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION,AS AMENDED),RELATING TO COMMERCIAL
AGRICULTURAL USE DEDICATION FOR REAL PROPERTY TAXES
Seeks to implement recommendations of the Real Property Tax Review Working
Group and Agricultural Committee's September 2019 Final Report by: amending
the definitions for "commercial agricultural activities" and "Commercial
agricultural use dedication"; adding four new definitions relating to commercial
agricultural uses; amending Section 19-60 of the Hawaii County Code to create a
"Long-term commercial agricultural use dedication"; and establishing a new section
titled "Short-term commercial agricultural use dedication."
Reference: Comm. 217.8
Intr. by: Ms. Kimball and Ms. Galimba
Postponed: May 3, 2023
First Reading: June 21, 2023
(Note: Comm. 217.9, from Council Member Michelle Galimba dated June 30,
2023, transmitting proposed amendments to Bill 43, Draft 3, was circulated.)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kimball moved to pass Bill 43, Draft 3, on second and
final reading. Seconded by Ms. Galimba.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. For the folks who were not at the last Council
meeting, I just wanted to highlight the one amendment that we did make last time,
which was to include the land dedication as one of the pieces of potential
evidence to affirm that you were actually engaged in agricultural activities.
Thanks to Council Member Galimba for identifying that as another pathway.
We've had pretty lengthy discussions about the purpose of this and the response,
ultimately, to the Real Property Tax Review Working Group and Agricultural
Committee's assessment.
Page 35
Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
The one final comment I wanted to make today is that I did the $2,000 minimal
annual gross income is something that's been in place since this portion of the
Code was established. And so I wanted to let everyone know that I have Dot on
deck with an amendment to plug in an amount if we want to look at an adjustment
to that as one of the final changes to this. Or if folks want to proceed with 2,000,
that's fine too. So just wanted to share that. With that I'll yield. Thanks.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Given the discussion we had at our last meeting, I'm putting
forward an amendment that sort of captures some of those main points, and for
discussion and consideration. I guess I'll go ahead and make the motion to amend
and we can discuss it.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Galimba moved to amend Bill 43, Draft 3, with the
contents of Comm. 217.9. Seconded by Ms. Kimball.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. Just to talk it through, it's pretty simple. Heard
from Council Member Evans that she would be interested in having the short-term
commercial agricultural use at two times rather than at three times, because two
times is the current rate for the nondedicated ag. So this would sort of keep things
the same for those folks.
But at the same time, heard from I believe it was Council Member Kagiwada
brought up the idea of capping the number of times that a taxpayer could make
use of the short-term commercial program, so that they can't just keep doing three
years forever. So put forward the idea of three consecutive three-year terms, and
that is in Section 6 on the front of this amendment. So bringing that forward for
discussion.
Would it be possible for you, Keita Jo, to talk a little bit about what kind of
impact that would potentiallyI know it's kind of hypothetical, somewhat, but an
estimate of what impact going from three times to two times would have on our
County finances.
(Note: At this time, Assistant Real Property Tax Administrator Keita Jo,
Finance Department, came forward to address the members of the
Council.)
MR. JO: Because the nondedicated agricultural use program is currently the
actual rate is the agricultural value is set at two times whatever the dedicated
value is, it wouldn't have any fiscal impact to what it currently is now.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
(Inaudible) of the three times would increase revenues, but keeping at the two
times would pretty much be as is. And that assumes everybody in nondedicated is
going to go into this three-year dedication.
MS. GALIMBA: I'll ask it another way, the other way I guess. I know you did
give us sort of an estimate of like the overall impact of these bills, I think it was,
as a whole. Or can you break it down to that piece of that three times to the two
times. What would we be getting more with three times?
MR. JO: The three times, currently, would bring in an additional, I want to say,
$2 million if you went to the three times the agricultural rate. If you kept status
quo, it would be whatever the value is currently but—
MS.
utMS. GALIMBA: Okay, thanks. Just so we have a number to think about. And
with that, I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Evans, on
Communication 217.9.
MS. EVANS: Right. So I'm wondering if the amendment achieves what I was
commenting on. My concern was short-term commercial is maybe beginning
farmers. And so I wanted to make sure that the beginning farmers were not
paying more of a rate than the ten years. So you have the ten-year and you have
the three-year, and I wanted to make sure we weren't charging and harming the
ones that are short-term if they're beginning farmers. So with this amendment—
have
mendmenthave you seen it? Do you have it in front of you?
MR. JO: I have not seen the amendment.
MS. EVANS: So, it's what? Turn it over? So it's 217.9, right? "The total
combined period of dedication for short-term commercial ag use shall not exceed
three consecutive three-year terms." Oh, there it is. Okay. So I didn't see this.
It's on the back side, the very last Section 6, bottom of it. It says, "Lands
dedicated for short-term commercial ag use shall be assessed at two times the
value of lands dedicated . . . ." So we went from three to two. So can you—what
would that rate difference be?
MR. JO: I think that was what I was mentioning before, the difference between
going from three to two would be that$2 millionI mean, it would be net zero,
as it stands now. But if the Council was going to go with the three times, then it
would increase revenues by about 2 million.
MS. EVANS: Okay. All right. Thank you. I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Further questions on this amendment?
Council Member Kagiwada.
Page 37
Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Galimba, for
looking at this. So, if people were limited to three consecutive three-year terms,
then their options would be to go move into long-term commercial or get out of
the program completely. Is that what their options are at that point?
MR. JO: I believe if Bill 44 passes, then they would have a set of options. They
could go into the ten-year dedication. And presumably, on their third renewal,
that's nine years into agricultural use, you would imagine that they would have
their operation up and going and have a pretty good business management plan
going. They could go into the ten-year, or they could choose to go into the
community food sustainability program and pay 30 percent of market.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. And if they're in short-term commercial, is there any
difference, for instance, in minimum lot size or anything like that that would
prohibit them from moving into long-term commercial, potentially?
MR. JO: If I understand the short-term, I believe it does not—let me research it.
MS. KIMBALL: I will address that if I may. There are minimum lot sizes
required for the dedicated programs; however, if the farm plan indicates that they
can be profitable and commercially viable on a smaller lot, then that requirement
can be waived. But if they were eligible for the short-term, they would be equally
eligible for the long-term.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, great. That's what I wanted to check. All right, thank
you. And thank you for putting this forward. Just back on the two times the
value. If this were to pass, what is the difference between how the short-term
commercial properties would be taxed, and how, if it passes, Bill 43, the
sustainable food systems, is there still enough of a difference between those two,
or do they get close together? How does that—?
MR. JO: So the community food sustainability is based off of 30 percent of
market. So that would increase revenues by about 9 million. If you went to the
two times, it would be as is currently. So I think you're giving people options.
You enter into agricultural use potentially through the community food
sustainability program and then you're kind of encouraged to go to a three-year
dedication, then the ten-year.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Thank you. I like these two pieces together because
they still encourage the movement, whereas if you just did the one, I feel like
people might sit there forever. So I can see why both together would make sense.
So thank you for putting that together. I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: All right, there's a motion on the floor to amend
Bill 43, Draft 3, with the contents of Communication 217.9. All those in favor?
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 43, Draft 3, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 217.9 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Motion carries. Back to the main motion.
Vote on Motion to Ms. Lee Loy moved to suspend Council Rule 23 to waive
Suspend Council the holdover for the substantive amendment of Bill 43,
Rules: Draft 3. Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada and carried by the
(Approved) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Motion carries. Back to the main motion; Bill 43,
Draft 3, as amended.
MS. LEE LOY: On the main motion, Chair.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. I just have a procedural question for Judge Strance.
The tail end of this particular bill has an effective date of July 1, which would
make it retro. And I'm just curious as to the affectability, if we can adopt
legislation with a date prior to our action. And maybe this is something we can
just amend. (Bill) 43 says the same.
MS. KIMBALL: No, 43 is September 2.
MS. LEE LOY: Oh, okay.
MS. KIMBALL: (Bill) 44 has the (inaudible).
MS. LEE LOY: Okay. I'm good. You know that's going to come up. All right.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Alrighty. Council Member Lee Loy.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MS. LEE LOY: Yes, I'm good.
ACTING CHR. INABA: All right. Thank you. Bill 43, Draft 3, as amended.
Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Acting Chair Inaba. Mr. Jo,
when we had started this whole discussion, something I struggled with because
we had three bills all playing with ag and changing the assessments and that kind
of thing. Even the newspaper ran a cute little cartoon of all of us kicking the ball
around with ag use bills, which I thought was really cute. Well done on their
behalf.
But I wanted to touch back on something that was said. And I might be wrong, so
correct me if I'm wrong. The interplay between bills that were passed and 43 and
44, I think there was an interplay between 43 and 28. So, as we've passed Bill 28
today, is there any tie-in to 43 we should be aware of?
MR. JO: I think it comes down to eligibility and how people are eligible to
continue to maintain the agricultural use. That's the interplay that you're seeing
and the reason why I think there was movement to hear these all at the same time,
because they all kind of impact each other in various ways.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so Bill 28 is passed now. How does
that affect Bill 43 in its current form? How do they play together?
MR. JO: Other than someone in a current agricultural use program. So,
currently, they either are in a ten-year or they're in a nondedicated agricultural use
program, and they're participating in the homeowners program. Because of
Bill 28 passing, they will now get the homeowners classification if they're
participating in ag and they're a homeowner.
If Bill 43 passes, then that same homeowner has another option. Instead of doing
a ten-year ag in nondedicated, as it stands now, they can go into a three-year
dedicated program.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Can you be in both at the same time?
Homeowners exemption and ag short-term, long-term dedicated ag use?
MR. JO: As it stands with the passage of 28, you can. And that's what 28 was
doing, was extending the agricultural use benefit while also preserving the
homeowners tax classification.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. When we first discussed this and you
gave us that beautiful document—
MR.
ocumentMR. JO: Monstrosity.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It was good. It was great. It was well done
because it's hard to kind of track everything, and you guys did a good job with
that. When you presented that to us, I remember that there were some
connections between the two. And I had people reach out to me about what's
going to happen, how it's going to affect them.
And I've had previous discussions about whether you can use homeowners
exemptions and ag and different things together in parallel to decrease property
taxes, especially as our assessments have gone up. And it's been hard answering
all those questions. The document was very helpful. But I'm also just wanting to
touch bases on that again as it's back in front of us, and Bill 28 is actually passed.
Okay. You've answered my questions and it was helpful. Anything else we
should be aware of as we look at Bill 43 in conjunction with Bill 28?
MR. JO: Just other than the timing, there's going to be a few things that are kind
of going to start to occur around September of next year. And it may impact
someone's ability to, or the timing of when they're receiving the benefits and
whatnot. But it's really more tied to Bill 44. Other than that, really what Bill 43
does is strengthens our current ten-year dedication that we have, and then
provides that three-year dedication as an option for individuals. And there's a
little bit more guardrails in terms of what's eligible and what's not.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I'm interested to see what happens
after the fact, because usually we have people come in if they don't like it. No
one's here. I don't see a lot of people supporting it either. So seeing nobody out
there and very limited testimony makes me wonder how the general public's
going to feel about this bill. If the big boys didn't like it, they'd be in here
screaming. They wouldn't love it. But they're not here. So I'm interested to see
what happens.
I want to follow up with you afterwards. I have some questions, but I think the
bill itself, it's going to pass today. So I just want to get a feel for your folks and
see what people's options are, especially for my district.
MR. JO: Absolutely.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: I just wanted to go back to the effective date question, which,
on this current draft, is September 2nd, 2023. I know there were some very
specific reasons why we chose that date, and I don't quite remember what they
were. So, if you could discuss that with us, I think that would be helpful for some
of us who had some questions about that.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MR. JO: The reason why the September 2nd, 2023, date was chosen was because
our current dedications have a deadline of September I". So, September I" of
every year, you have to file for a dedication. Currently, right now, it's only the
ten-year. So, if you want to dedicate your property for agricultural use for ten
years, receive a preferential tax assessment, then you have September I"of every
year. So the reason why September 2nd was chosen was because it kind of aligns
with that time frame.
When it comes to the short-term dedication program, there's a little bit more
structure in this particular bill and the language of the Code that provides
deadlines further along the way. So, even though it might seem on face value that
we have to get this program up and running by September 2nd, really it's
continuing on with our ten-year dedication, adding a few more guardrails in terms
of qualifications, maybe. And then there's some timings that are in Bill 43 that
allow us to the "recipe," so to speak to move forward and implement this.
There's a process where we're going to have to go through rules and regulations,
and community outreach and whatnot to help define that.
MS. GALIMBA: Thanks, yes. I mean, it's amazing how you and Lisa have
everything calendared out like in your head, and you can just talk about it
instantly. So, yeah, I just wanted to bring that up. And thank you for explaining.
I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I just wanted to lend my support for this
measure and thank my colleagues, Council Members Kimball and Galimba, for
your work on this. I think 43 helps to ensure that farm operations are actually
legitimate and folks are getting those benefits. And then with the creation of this
three-year program, folks that are interested in exploring agriculture and getting
into farming, at least they're getting those benefits before they make the
determination if they want to do this long-term.
So I think that what's been specified in the bill is not onerous. We want to make
sure that we're able to ensure that farm operations are legitimate, but that there
isn't a ton of paperwork because we want to make sure that farmers are able to
farm. So I'll be supporting it today. Thank you. I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Any further discussion? If not, there's a motion on the
floor to approve Bill 43, Draft 3, as amended. All those in favor?
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
Vote on Bill 43: The motion to pass Bill 43, Draft 3, as amended to Draft 4,
Draft 4 on second and final reading was carried by the following
(Adopted) voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Bill 43, Draft 3, is adopted at second and final reading.
Bill 44: AMENDS CHAPTER 19, ARTICLES 1 AND 7, OF THE HAWAII COUNTY
(Draft 2) CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO COMMUNITY
FOOD SUSTAINABILITY USE ASSESSMENTS AND NONDEDICATED
AGRICULTURE USE ASSESSMENTS
Seeks to implement recommendations of the Real Property Tax Review Working
Group and Agricultural Committee's September 2019 Final Report and the
2021 Annual Report of the Real Property Tax Board of Review by: establishing a
sunset date for the definition of"Nondedicated agricultural use assessment"; adding
a new definition for"Community food sustainability use"; establishing a sunset date
for Section 19-57 of the Hawaii County Code; and establishing a new section titled
"Community food sustainability use assessment".
Reference: Comm. 218.3
Intr. by: Ms. Kimball and Ms. Galimba
Postponed: May 17, 2023
First Reading: June 21, 2023
(Note: Comm. 218.5, from Council Chair Heather L. Kimball and Council
Member Michelle M. Galimba dated June 26, 2023, transmitting proposed
amendments to Bill 44, Draft 2, was circulated.)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kimball moved to pass Bill 44, Draft 2, on second and
final reading. Seconded by Ms. Galimba.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Chair Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. So I just want to briefly note that this is the one
that does require the date change in terms of the implementation date, and there's
the amendment available for that. But the genesis of this particular proposal was
in discussing with Lisa and Keita how these new programs, the short-term
program, would work in the sense of the nondedicated ag.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
There was the sense that there was the potential that some folks that are
contributing to the food systems would get left out of the program. And so this
was an attempt to ensure that we had a thorough discussion about the
opportunities that were available for people in ag if we were to indeed sunset the
nondedicated ag program.
And so I think that there are some differences here that give a little bit more of
what I think we've been asking for with respect to the ag benefits that we provide
through tax policy. One, this now requires a farm plan; the nondedicated ag
program never required a farm plan. There is a certain amount of revenue, either
through sales or the indication of donation of food, that is required. That's
another guardrail that didn't exist with the nondedicated ag program. It is also not
available for pasture.
I know one of the pieces of testimony we got was about the one cow situation
where, you know, "This cow is a pet. We're not actually farming." And that's
not the kind of thing that we want to support for this community food program.
That said, I do think we need to be very careful in consideration of this. I do still
think there is potential for abuse, and we need to be cognizant of that. But that's
the role we play here is balancing; making sure that we're including everybody
that is actually contributing to our food systems, versus are guardrails strong
enough to make sure there's no abuse.
I also wanted to mention that I have Dot on deck with an amendment draft to
change the value from either for donations or sales from 1,000 to whatever
amount this body were to agree upon, if that was one way to increase the
guardrails a little bit. So, if that's something folks want, we can get it here
quickly. Other than that, yeah, look forward to the discussion.
I will say that,just one more time, and I know I've repeated this again and again,
is that if the community food sustainability program is not something this body
wants to see move forward, my intention then would be to, per our previous
discussion, postpone this indefinitely so that I could bring back a bill that just
sunsets the nondedicated program. So I just want to make sure that that's clear to
everyone. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Do we want to take up the amendment for
the effective date?
MS. GALIMBA: Yes.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Galimba moved to amend Bill 44, Draft 2, with the
contents of Comm. 218.5. Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Galimba.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MS. GALIMBA: This is very simple. Just fixing the effective date at the very
end. So going from July 1st, 2023, to July 31" so that we don't have a backdating
effect. And actually just wanted to check with RPT (Real Property Tax) if they're
okay with that.
(Note: At this time, Real Property Tax Administrator Lisa Miura and
Assistant Real Property Tax Administrator Keita Jo, Finance Department,
came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. JO: Yes, we're okay with that date. Similar to Bill 44, there is specific
instructions within the bill that give us the framework in terms of accepting new
applications and when the nondedicated program would be sunset. It's not
impacted by the effective date.
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Any further discussion? If not, all those in
favor of amending Bill 44, Draft 2, with the contents of Communication 218.5?
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 44, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 218.5 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Motion carries.
Vote on Motion to Ms. Kimball moved to suspend Council Rule 23 to waive
Suspend Council the holdover for the substantive amendment of Bill 44,
Rules: Draft 2. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy and carried by the
(Approved) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Motion carries. Back to the main motion; Bill 44,
Draft 2, as amended. Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Jo, one more time.
(Bill) 44. Impacts from 28 and 43, now passed, on 44, if any.
MR. JO: If someone is participating in the homeowners program and agricultural
use program, as they would in Bill 28, they would receive the homeowners
exemption. They receive the homeowners tax class. Bill 44 is tied to 30 percent
of market. So, if an individual is in a homeowners program and they're currently
participating in the nondedicated program, they will see an increase to their—I
take that back. Because of the lower tax rate now that Bill 28 has passed, it
allows somebody to go into this food sustainability with minimal to low impact to
their actual taxes that they're paying. Because, with Bill 28, instead of paying the
$9.35, which is the higher tax rate, because they're in ag they can now get the
$6.15. So, even though their assessed value might be going up, the actual impact
to their taxes would be fairly negligible.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Can you use 44 in parallel with 43
and 28, getting the 30 percent of the fair market value and getting other decreases
in your market value?
MR. JO: Say that again?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Can you use the 30 percent of fair market
value assessment together with any other parts of 43 or 28?
MR. JO: No.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so it's one or the other, yeah.
MR. JO: Yeah. So, either you're on a ten-acre parcel and maybe five acres is
participating in this program. That's going to be a 30 percent of market. Maybe
the other five is going to be in a ten-year dedication. You could do that, but you
wouldn't have any comingling in terms of value. It's either the 30 percent or the
two times or one time.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, beautiful. You guys like all these
bills? Serious.
MR. JO: That's a loaded question, no. There's going to be a lot of work for us to
implement it, but I think Lisa would agree we see it as a learning opportunity for
us. This has been a long time coming. It's been something that's been brought up
and reverberated between every iteration of a working group or a task group, task
force, or whatnot. So it's something that's been on the radar for quite some time.
And what these bills do, it does provide our division a lot more guardrails that
weren't there before. And I think it allows us a little bit more black and white.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
As was mentioned before, it comes at a balance, right. You can't make it too over
encompassing for a farmer. I've done inspections, been out in the field and
whatnot. Farmers and ranchers, they're working their fields, right. So you want
to make it simple for them, allow them to get the benefit, without seeing a lot of
abuse either kind of coming in from the wayside.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Director Miura, any comments?
MS. MIURA: No. I think Keita handled that really well. Thank you.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: He did. He did, didn't he? Okay, I yield,
Chair. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Kagiwada, go ahead.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. To the maker, I'm just wondering: You
mentioned that there's still potential for people maybe not exactly doing the right
thing here. And I just wonder if you could expand a little bit on your thinking on
that because, yeah, I'd just like to hear that if possible.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. It's a big improvement over the
NDA (nondedicated ag)program from the standpoint that if a farm plan is
required, it doesn't apply to pasture, there has to be some evidence of food
production, and you have to go ahead and show sales or donation. With the
$1,000 limit, I would say that it's possible that you have somebody with three
lychee trees or avocados or whatever, and they're able to donate or sell those and
get receipts that reach that threshold. And that's really kind of not what we're
going for. We're going for regular contributions to the food system.
That said, to be clear, that 30 percent benefit of market value only applies to the
area that is being used. So if you're actually only producing food from three
avocado trees, that's your area that's getting the benefit. I just want everybody to
be really thoughtful, that we're trying to strike that very fine balance here and
yeah. So that's my response to that. Thanks.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. One more if you'll allow it, Chair. And then you
mentioned the possibility of changing that dollar amount. Were you considering
changing it up or changing it down? I wasn't really sure by your comments.
MS. KIMBALL: I think if folks were feeling like the guardrails weren't strong
enough, increasing that$1,000 threshold would be probably one of the ways to do
that. And so I don't have an amount in my mind. But I did want people to be
aware that we have an amendment pending, but we can get down here pretty
quickly if that's a lever that folks want to pull.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MS. KAGIWADA: All right, thanks. I'm going to think on that for a minute, but
allow others. Thank you. I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I like one of the suggestions, Chair Kimball, that you
mentioned, and that is maybe holding this bill and introducing a bill to get rid of
the nondedicated ag use assessment that I've heard over time. And that seems
real supported by the Real Property Tax Division, getting rid of that. But I have
still some concerns about the abuse part of it, and also the fact that you're not
including pasture, because I do think that some people might grow two or three
cows and sell two of them and keep one for the family.
I don't know. I just see it as being really difficult to manage in that the cost of
trying to manage this and get control of it, and even explaining it to my
community. You have people come up and say, "I've got three trees. What am I
going to get?" And then if the three trees is only 60 square feet, who's going to
calculate the 60 square feet? How is that going to be done? Who's going to
verify it? It just seems like it's a lot of busy work on a lot of people, and that
just I would like to spend a little more time.
I think that it's noble to talk about food sustainability and maybe encourage more
and more people to grow in their backyard and sell it at the local farmers market.
But I'd like a little more thinking on it instead of pushing it forward at this time.
So there it is. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I want to kako`o what Council Member Evans
has just put forward. I like the idea of Council Chair Kimball coming back with
legislation that just sunsets the nondedicated ag program. There are just, I think,
still a lot of questions in the minds of members of the dais, even within Real
Property Tax, how we're going to be implementing this, the burden of proof that's
required for legitimate operations.
And I think folks that are giving away food aren't always necessarily doing it for
some tax benefit. Like when my partner gets deer or fish, he's not saving receipts
to get some kind of break from any government entity. We do that because that's
what we do here as a local community. We take care and we share our resources.
So I can't support this measure as presented today, but would like to vote on a
measure that just sunsets the nondedicated ag portion. Thank you. I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. And similar to that of my colleagues
Ms. Evans and Ms. Kierkiewicz, definitely kind of want to get this one right,
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
especially when we're tinkering with our taxes. And I actually leaned over to my
colleague Ms. Galimba. When we amend on second reading, I just tend to have
heartburn a little bit because there's very little time for the community to kind of
weigh in. And I'm not saying we're doing anything horrible. We're making very
minor adjustments. And with the suspension of the rules, I think we still could
get even better feedback if we hold it over for one more hearing and
acknowledging that there can be just a lot more tailoring, and would support that.
I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Jo, I'm listening. So
if I'm reading this, and from what you just said, let's say I fenced off four acres
and I had 20 chickens, and I used the four acres to raise chickens and get eggs.
Would that then allow me to have four acres of property assessed at 30 percent of
the market value?
MR. JO: Not necessarily because we have internal standards that we use in terms
of identifying properties that meet maximum productivity. And so if you had
20 chickens on four acres, you probably wouldn't get approved.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I agree. That's a good answer. Okay. What
if I had one cow and one acre?
MR. JO: As it stands now, that one cow is pasture, so it wouldn't be eligible for
the community food sustainability.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: How about four goats, one acre?
MR. JO: You're still one acre pasturing.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Still one acre pasturing?
MR. JO: Yeah.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. JO: The nondedicated program, as it stands now, would allow you to get the
agricultural use benefit. That's the issue.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. What about 20 lemon trees, one
acre?
MR. JO: You would only get so much as—if you take a look at the footprint, and
maybe to Council Member Evans' concern, our appraisers go out and look at
maximum productivity and viability. So they're looking for the areas that are
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
actively utilized for agricultural use. So your papaya trees, we're looking for
densities of 300-400 trees per acre, whereas lemon trees, they take up a larger
footprint, so we're looking for less trees. But we're looking for things that
maximize the use of that land.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So you have some density
requirements you look at as far as what's being grown or raised on the property
that you gauge by.
MR. JO: Yeah. Generally acceptable agricultural practice.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. I like this bill. I like it because, in
my eyes, I know we're trying to move away from kind of the illegitimate uses of
some of our other programs. But on this one, we're actually saying, "Hey, we're
promoting folks who are going to raise food for community, or provide food to
the community," and that I like. If we can provide a benefit to the community for
that purpose then great. So I like the bill. I'm going to support the bill. If you
want to tweak it or hold onto it, if you need some TUMS, whatever,just I kind
of like it in the way that it is. I'm going to support this. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: I'm going to go to Council Chair Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: I'll give my colleague Council Member Galimba the
opportunity to weigh in, but I am going to suggest that one more postponement to
the 18'', we still have time. And I do appreciate the idea that we want to get this
right. In the interim, what I will try to do is get two more bills ready that basically
just splits this, that just decouples the community and the sunset of the
nondedicated. That might be a little bit easier for us to deal with, and yeah. So,
in lieu of whatever Council Member Galimba has to say, that is my intended
motion next.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. That sounds pretty good to me. I just kind of
wanted to kind of talk about what I kind of envision with this community food
sustainability program, the kind of person that I imagine in my head that would be
wanting to take advantage of this. And that would be someone who's potentially
doing sort of an educational food program where it's more about the education
than about the food production, in a way. I mean, that is really important.
So, people teaching kids how to raise some kalo or sweet potatoes or lettuce or
whatever, and not really planning to make a lot of money, but being part of the
food system and sort of baby-stepping and just kind of learning as they go. That
may be where theya good place for some people. They don't necessarily have
to graduate into the agricultural programs. So that's the folks that I'm thinking
that would take advantage of this.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
And I do recognize that we're opening the door for a little bit of abuse, but I think
taking the positive approach and wanting to help people to be positive rather
thanI think that's more important than keeping the abusers completely out. So
it's a balancing act. And I appreciate your discussion of how you folks have your
own parameters that would help to put those guardrails on. That's all I wanted to
share. Thanks.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. And then if we can just wrap up
discussion. Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Just really quickly. I kind of have a feeling that those that
want to try and cheat the system will try and cheat the system, whether or not they
put their residence under corporate entity or they call it ag or they call it whatever
they call it. I am going to support this piece of legislation moving forward.
I alsoI mean, my heart aches for the amount of work it's going to take for you
guys. But I appreciate your recognition that this is a piece of legislation that has
been in the works for a long time, and figuring out how we navigate this and
improve on the existing system, which I want to compliment the writers of this
legislation for all the different nuances that had to be tackled, as well as
overcoming the concerns.
There's risk versus reward. And I suppose, for me, I feel like the rewards
outweigh the risk when it comes to this. Also, as we see in a number of different
things that come before us, is people are constantly naysaying in certain areas of
the island viable use of land as ag land. And I think, with creativity, there is use
for ag land. And if this supports that, even if it's on the and side of the island
with lots of lava, there are mechanisms for growing food; aquaponics. All
different kinds of ways to be resilient and regenerative from an agricultural
production standpoint.
And so, you know, and I'm going to forget the name and I'm going to ask Council
Member Inaba. And I apologize and I'm humbled, but the name for "farmer" in
Hawaiian?
ACTING CHR. INABA: Mahi`ai.
MS. VILLEGAS: Mahi`ai. But supporting and promoting the movement of our
mahi`ai I think is something that is a reward. There's a lot of work to be done in
the agricultural state side of things when it comes to what can be done on ag land
and vada vada. And we can come back and continue to improve on this. But if it
does not gut the County's tax base and leave us without the resources necessary to
continue to function, then, to me, this seems like an equitable and wise decision to
navigate some of these changes at this time. So, with that, I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Evans, very quickly.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MS. EVANS: Thank you. We just passed 43 and 44, and this one says five
years. So, the one that we're looking at, like every five years they'd come in front
of you asking for this food sustainability program. But what about the other one
that we just passed? Is it every five years?
MR. JO: So the prior one, the short-term dedication would be every three years.
MS. EVANS: Every three. So, yeah, I'm concerned with the five. But anyway,
thank you. I appreciate it.
Vote on Motion to Ms. Kimball moved to postpone Bill 44, Draft 2, as
Postpone: amended to Draft 3, to July 19, 2023. Seconded by
(Approved) Ms. Galimba and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Motion carries. This item is postponed to July 19''.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Acting Chair Inaba relinquished the chair to
Acting Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
Bill 48: AMENDS THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS
(Draft 3) AMENDED), BY AMENDING CHAPTER 2, ARTICLE 2, SECTION 2-7;
AMENDING CHAPTER 2 BY CREATING A NEW ARTICLE 49; AND
CREATING A NEW CHAPTER 37, RELATING TO SUSTAINABILITY,
CLIMATE, EQUITY, AND RESILIENCE
Adds a new agency and agency head to coordinate and manage policies and
programs to address sustainability, mitigate greenhouse gas emissions, and adapt
to the impacts of climate change and other natural and human caused hazards.
Reference: Comm. 279.83
Intr. by: Ms. Kimball and Ms. Villegas
Postponed: June 7, 2023
First Reading: June 21, 2023
(Note: Comm. 279.131, from Council Member Holeka Goro Inaba dated June 29,
2023, transmitting proposed amendments to Bill 48, Draft 3, was circulated.)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kimball moved to pass Bill 48, Draft 3, on second and
final reading. Seconded by Ms. Villegas.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Council Members, discussion?
I'll be going to Council Member Kimball to start off the discussion.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you very much. So just briefly for the folks that were
not present at the last Council meeting. The one adjustment we had made, based
on the past discussion, is we had to have the mechanism in there for removal of
the administrator. And so that was put in. We had a dialogue about whether or
not it made sense to just have a mayoral removal as it is for the housing
administrator, or mayoral approval with Council approval.
What the body ultimately decided was that adding that Council approval was
actually kind of an overstep of the separation of powers between the Executive
and Legislative Branches. And you could end up with a scenario where you have
somebody under the Mayor that the Mayor didn't actually want working in that
position. So that was the amendment we made there. With that removal
language, the term length actually became irrelevant. So that was removed as
well.
I want to mahalo Vice Chair Inaba. He was able to just do one other quick
amendment while I was away, which actually just adds a little bit more of the
language that would be in the Charter with respect to a department head
appointment. And make sure that that is clear in there about the time period with
which to take action, so that we don't run into the same issue we did with the
Downtown Improvement Association where we thought we had a time limit to do
things, and we actually did not.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kimball moved to amend Bill 48, Draft 3, with the
contents of Comm. 279.131. Seconded by Ms. Villegas.
MS. KIMBALL: As I said, this is just to add that statutory language that is in the
Charter for other positions into this administrative position.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Mahalo, Council
Member Kimball. Council Members, discussion on the amendment, if any.
Looking around the room.
MS. VILLEGAS: Just quickly.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Council Member Villegas, go
ahead.
MS. VILLEGAS: I am in full support of this amendment. And I really appreciate
the attention to detail taken by Chair Kimball and Vice Chair Inaba. At the start
of this prior Administration, we had some challenges here on the Council. I
recognized some challenges, I guess, personally and professionally. With
department heads or office heads, they take office as soon as the Mayor becomes
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
inaugurated. But they need to be confirmed by the Council, and yet they've
already started the job. So I appreciate this attention to detail in saying that an
appointee shall take office upon confirmation by the Council.
And there I see appropriate alignment in being essentially hired by the Mayor.
But when Council's approval is connected with that, then they don't start until
there is that confirming, which allows for us ideally to avoid any issues where
somebody's started the job and then Council doesn't confirm them, and then they
can't go back to it. There were some challenges with that and some prior issues
in a different time, and I appreciate this attention to detail to avoid any
circumstances like that moving forward. So, with that, I yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Member
Villegas. Moving on to further discussion. Council Member Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Chair. Oh, this was Holeka, yeah, who introduced it.
Okay, let's try.
MS. KIMBALL: It was a friendly amendment.
MS. LEE LOY: Okay,perfect. Again, trying to work through the mechanics.
We stand up the office. The Mayor then appoints. The Council confirms. We
confirm or reject. If we don't within 60 days, set. New Mayor comes in. That
person stays until the next Mayor advances another individual? So this member
then becomes a member of the Cabinet. If not, that person sits in that seat until
another name is advanced. Okay. Thank you, I yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Okay, seeing no
further discussion on the amendment, we have a motion to amend Bill 48, Draft 3,
with the contents of Communication 279.131. All in favor?
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 48, Draft 3, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 279.131 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas,
and Acting Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Inaba— 1.
Excused: None.
Motion to Suspend Ms. Kimball moved to suspend Council Rule 23 to waive
Council Rules: the holdover for the substantive amendment of Bill 48,
Draft 3. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Any discussion?
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, I just wanted to, one last time, thank all of the people that
were involved in creating this, including my colleague Council Member Villegas.
But members from the Mayor's office; Finance Department; Planning
Department; Jake and Kendra and Sarah from R&D (Research and Development),
as well as Doug, I just want to mahalo. And Leslie, of course, too. This has been
a project near and dear to my heart and Council Member Villegas's as well. So I
just wanted to thank everybody out there, as well as everybody that came and
submitted testimony or testified in person. This is a dream come true for me, so
I'm happy to see us at this stage. Thank you. I yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Further discussion?
Council Member Villegas.
MR. BROWN: I'm sorry. If I could, and I apologize if I missed it, I'm not sure if
you called the vote on the suspension of the rules.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No, I didn't get a chance. All in
favor of the suspension of the rules, Council Members?
Vote on Motion to The motion to suspend Council Rule 23 to waive the
Suspend Council holdover for the substantive amendment of Bill 48, Draft 3,
Rules: was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas,
and Acting Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Member Inaba— 1.
Excused: None.
MR. BROWN: Thank you very much, Chair. I appreciate it.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Thanks for keeping
us on track. Back to you, Ms. Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: I just wanted to say that I concur and am deeply grateful for
this opportunity to move our County in this direction, and for the support of the
Administration in doing so and the different departments, and see this as a legacy
project. I really appreciated the testimony that was provided earlier today and her
perspectives and her alignment. And also recognition of the different ways that
pieces of legislation and new offices, such as this one, can be created.
I also want to honor a fellow Council Member who had ideas about a different
way to bring this forward. And I just want to also acknowledge that that can
always be done afterwards. There is opportunity. That was done with the
creation of other the PONC (Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
Preservation Commission)—in our County government. So my hope is that we
can get everyone's support on this. Because I think moving forward and history, I
don't know.
Had some challenging times in life lately with family members being very close
to their deathbed. And it had me thinking, "What are the things that, if I was
laying on my deathbed, that I would regret not doing or regret doing?" And I am
really excited to know deep in my heart and soul that passing this piece of
legislation and voting in support of it is something I would never regret, but that I
might regret not. So, with humble respect for everyone's opinions and
viewpoints, I still wanted to say, "Please!" And with that I yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Member.
Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I'm going to be in opposition. And I know
everybody's heard me say it, so I am going to repeat it again so it goes in the
meeting minutes, and that is I've been very supportive of this. I voted for the
budget. I voted for these positions to be funded. These positions can exist in the
office of Research and Development.
If we want our County government to expand and be very committed to this issue,
then I think it should be by Charter amendment. And I think the public should
make it part of their government, what they think is important for their children,
for the future of this island. I think we should give the public the right to do a
Charter amendment on this. Like I said, this office could be stood up next month.
It's very easy. We could pass a reso (resolution). Like I said, the positions
already exist. We have a lot of direction. It can be done and I don't believe it has
to be done this way. So, for that reason, I am in opposition. Thank you.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Council Member
Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I'm going to be supporting this
measure. I've articulated that in the past. I respectfully disagree with some of the
comments about there needs to be another way of doing this, pursuing it by
Charter amendment. We literally just created an agency for animal control. So
creating new offices is very much within the jurisdiction of this body.
And having sat on the Council for, what is it now, Matt? Rebecca? Five years?
Four-and-a-half, five years. I remember our first term. Then-Councilwoman Val
Poindexter had introduced a resolution wanting our County to act with urgency to
address the climate crisis. We are finally moving in that direction today with this
legislation. And it's an opportunity to pool all of our resources together within
the County and to take coordinated and collective action, and that is what's
needed. That's what's absolutely necessary if we are able to confront this issue in
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
a meaningful way. So I will again be supporting this. I think it's a very smart and
feasible investment that we can be making now to safeguard our future and the
future of our mo`opuna. I yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Council Member
Lee Loy, go ahead.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you. Absolutely in support of this bill. Members of the
dais know that I'm a real big stickler for definitions. And what I really did
appreciate about this particular bill is the legislation and how it identified the
definitions of various items that this office would tackle. And one thing I really
appreciated was the definition of resiliency, which I will share again here: means
the ability to withstand social, environmental, and economic shocks and stressors
with minimal human environmental and economic costs, risks, and damages.
And I think this is a wonderful space to keep this office very nimble, as not only
we address climate change, but yesterday we heard a lot of my colleagues talk
about mental health and how we do trauma-informed care. And I think this will
be the perfect place and perfect office to become flexible as we move forward
through all of the stressors life brings for us. Really happy to support this and
how this will become a department that lives and breathes with our community as
we move forward. So thank you very much. I yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Council
Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thanks. Just really quickly. Thank you both for putting this
forward. It's been a long time needed, and so happy we're able to pass this today
for our children, our grandchildren, and their children's children. So, yeah, really
happy to support this, and thank you for all your hard work.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Looking around the
room. Galimba, go ahead.
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. Just very briefly. Thank you to both of you for
bringing this into fruition. I know that so much work went into it, and I just
admire the fact that it's here before us. I'm very excited to see what we can do
with this new tool in our government. Thanks.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Council Member
Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. Just again, to make sure it's in the meeting minutes,
that the office of Animal Control and Protection Agency, that one of the main
functions of the County has been to take care of animal control. So I don't
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
believe that when we did the agency, we were actually expanding government. I
believe that this new office is definitely above and beyond, and that's why I
believe it should be a Charter amendment. Thank you. I yield.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Council Member
Evans. Okay, seeing no further discussion, Mr. Clerk, roll call please.
Vote on Bill 48: The motion to pass Bill 48, Draft 3, as amended to Draft 4,
Draft 4 on second and final reading was carried by the following
(Adopted) roll call vote:
Ayes: Council Members Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, and Villegas —6.
Noes: Council Member Evans
and Acting Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder—2.
Absent: Council Member Inaba— 1.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. I think
that does bring us to the end of our agenda. Hold on, sorry. We have our
MS. KIMBALL: We have one more item.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That one last pressing item.
MS. KIMBALL: So you can give me back the gavel.
ACTING CHR KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes, I would love to. It's been
fun these last two days.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Acting Chair Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder
relinquished the chair to Chair Kimball.
REPORTS: The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, Reports.
(Note: Items in this category were taken up previously, out of order.)
REFERRALS FOR The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, Referrals
EXECUTIVE for Executive Session.
SESSION:
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
Comm. 331: NATHAN D. SMITH V. COUNTY OF HAWAII, ET AL.,
CV. 3CCV-22-0000027
From Deputy Corporation Counsel Ryan K. Thomas, dated June 13, 2023,
requesting an attorney-client confidential discussion to consult with the Council
regarding the above-entitled matter, including litigation filed by Ian Scott Mattoch
and Daniel P. Kirley on behalf of Nathan Smith.
Motion to Close Ms. Lee Loy moved to close file on Comm. 331. Seconded
File: by Ms. Galimba.
CHR. KIMBALL: At this time
MS. LEE LOY: Chair, always happy to get us into Executive Session. I've read
the background material and feel comfortable with the recommendation from
Corporation Counsel, unless I hear otherwise.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Let's leave that up to the body. If folks can
indicate if they feel comfortable with the recommendation or would like to go into
Executive Session. We'll have Council Member Lee Loy lead us in if needed.
Vote on Motion to Ms. Lee Loy moved to enter into Executive Session in
Enter into order to hold attorney-client privilege discussion regarding
Executive Session: Communication 331, as authorized by Section 92-5(a)(4) of
(Approved) the Hawaii Revised Statutes. Seconded by Ms. Galimba
and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
Recess: At 12:45 p.m., the Chair called for a recess in order to clear the
room.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 1:18 p.m.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Lee Loy.
Motion to Concur: Ms. Lee Loy moved to concur with the recommendation of
Corporation Counsel regarding Comm. 331. Seconded by
Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy.
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Hawaii County Council-17 July 6,2023
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Chair. Just to summarize the discussion of our
Executive Session: Some questions were asked about the County's duties,
privileges, and immunities. Those matters were further expanded upon by
Corporation Counsel, hence the body's recommendation to accept the motion to
accept the recommendation from Corporation Counsel.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you very much, Council Member Lee Loy. Any
further discussion on the motion, which is to accept the recommendation? Seeing
none, all those in favor please say "aye."
Vote on Motion to Ms. Lee Loy moved to concur with the recommendation of
Concur: Corporation Counsel regarding Comm. 331. Seconded by
(Approved) Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
Vote on Comm. 331: The motion to close file on Comm. 331 was carried by the
Filed following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
OTHER The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, Other
BUSINESS: Business.
(There were none.)
ANNOUNCE- The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
MENTS: Announcements.
(There were none.)
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Hawai`i County Council-17 July 6,2023
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 1:20 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn the
MENT: meeting. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—9.
Noes: None.
Absent: None.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: We are adjourned. The time is 1:20.
Council Approval: SEP 0 6 2023
COUN -'
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