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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOEAC 2023/08/15 (2022-2024) Committee on Governmental Operations and External Affairs 15th Session West Hawai`i Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawai`i August 15, 2023 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations and ORDER: External Affairs was called to order at 3:30 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Cindy Evans, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Cindy Evans, Chair Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Vice Chair Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member (came in later) Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member (came in later) Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member (came in later) Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak in support of Resolution 223 (Comm. 397), and came forward when called by the Chair: Amadeo Markoff, representing Main Street Pahoa Andrea Rosanoff Les Frey Suzanne Frey Eileen O'Hara GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 COMMUNI- The Acting Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of CATIONS: business, Communications. Comm. 10.3: HAWAI`I STATE ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES' MARCH 20, APRIL 14, AND MAY 9, 2023, EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES From Council Member Heather L. Kimball, dated July 24, 2023. Motion to Close File: Ms. Kimball moved to close file on Comm. 10.3. Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada. CHR. EVANS: Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah. Thank you,just you know as we do, providing the minutes from HSAC meetings, we're a little bit delayed as we shifted from to new secretary. We had been secretary we were very efficient; the other secretary is catching up. So, hopefully from here on up it'll be a little more timely. Thank you. CHR. EVANS: Okay, members any comments, questions? Yes, Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Thank you for putting this forward, I'm wondering if maybe you could just give us one more reminder as to when items for the legislative package are due. I know you sent an email, but I had to delete a bunch to make space in my inbox. And I might have accidentally deleted that, but I know it's important for us to be able to share with you what we would like to see in the package in terms of themes. But if there's specific bells that we need to elevate, could you remind us of the deadline. Thank you. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you. So we need to have—oh, Chair if I may respond? CHR. EVANS: Yes, please. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. We need to have our resolution with the bills attached to it done by the end of September. So that means getting it on to our agenda for the second September meeting at the latest. So just work back from that to LRB (Legislative Research Branch) deadline, and that's about—we can have everything set up as soon as you get the bills in well just plug it in from there and we can get it submitted. That's the deadline, I don't remember what exact day. I think it was the 28th that I can remember. Thank you. CHR. EVANS: So, thank you. I just have to recap that. So the Hawai`i Association of the County Officials will vote on a legislative package to go to the legislature, correct? Page 2 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 MS. KIMBALL: Yes. So,the process is we at the county have to submit a resolution with all of the bills that we want to propose to HSAC (Hawai`i State Association of Counties). At the Executive Committee Meeting of HSAC, we evaluate those and then put them into a package. And then that package will come back to us to vote on a second time. So not everything that we put forth from our Council will end up in the package, but then we'll have a chance to review the final package. We have learned from past practice that it's better to pick a few key items rather than have a 10-bill or 12-bill package, but really focus on a couple that we think will pass. CHR. EVANS: Thank you. Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: May I just ask a clarifying question or statement, I guess. So, what's due to you on Monday, August 28th, is it for any new bills that we are proposing, not for any priorities or bills that we want HSAC to consider supporting? MS. KIMBALL: This would be for any new bills to be considered as part of the package written in the format of a state bill, so that the lobbyist John Okaderrick can help you put it in, or Council Member Evans can help you put it in the state format. But also, I can take priority. So my intention is to write the resolution as I did last year, which would be these bills,these priorities as one document that we vote on. So, I can take either. I would definitely recommend to be as specific as possible with anything that's a priority,just mental health is not specific enough, we can't track all mental health bills. So,just as an example. MS. EVANS: So based on what we heard from the testimony for example, we can pass a reso, but we could also look at some of our resos and convert them into potential legislation. And so what would happen is when we meet in August, would you want it totally written out so that you could present it? MS. KIMBALL: I just need the bills in bill format from you and a title. And that's it, nothing more is needed. So if you want to take anything that we've discussed via the resolution, say this insurance resolution we're going to discuss today and put forth a bill around it,just give that to me in bill format, I'll add it to the main resolution, I'll put the package, and we'll go from there. MS. EVANS: Alright, thank you. No more discussion, we have a motion on the floor to close file on Communication 10.3, all in favor. Page 3 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 Vote on Comm. 10.3: The motion to close file on Comm. 10.3 was carried (Filed) by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Villegas, and Chair Evans— 8. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Member Lee Loy— 1. Excused: None. ORDER OF The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions. Res. 223-23: STRONGLY URGES IMMEDIATE ACTION BY THE HAWAI`I STATE LEGISLATURE, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE & CONSUMER AFFAIRS, AND HAWAI`I PROPERTY INSURANCE ASSOCIATION TO ADDRESS INSURANCE ACCESSIBILITY ON HAWAI`I ISLAND, PARTICULARLY IN LAVA ZONES 1 AND 2 Seeks to increase Hawai`i Property Insurance Association policy premiums and expand coverage to include commercial businesses, implement subsidies or financial assistance programs to mitigate the financial burden for residents in Lava Zones 1 and 2, and explore the creation of a risk pooling mechanism. Reference: Comm. 397 Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to recommend adoption of Res. 223-23. Seconded by Ms. Galimba. CHR. EVANS: Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I just want to start by saying mahalo nui to all of the folks that submitted testimony. I read every single one, and I was so moved by everyone's remarks today. Resolutions are what we can do as a Council. We can send strong messages to our State and Federal delegation, and provide some leadership, and offer solutions. That's what this resolution proposes to do is it provides a starting point for what I believe to be a very constructive and necessary dialog because if you read the testimony the need is so urgent, it's pressing. We need to get ahead of a potential crisis because the impact of not having other options or more affordable options will be catastrophic. With Universal Property Insurance (UPI) leaving Hawaii, 1,500 policies are affected; 1,000 here on Hawai`i Island, 900 in lava zone two. This is a big deal,they're leaving at the end of August 2024, but they are no longer reinsuring folks beginning September 1st, of this year. So folks that were Page 4 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 paying $1,400 a year also had hurricane coverage as part of the UPI policy. With that gone HPIA, Hawai`i Property Insurance Association, is now the insurer of last resort. They were established in 91 for residents to obtain. As folks mentioned, appropriately priced, reasonably priced insurance coverage and it's anything but that. The numbers that folks are being quoted as high as $7,000. That does not include hurricane coverage, that's an additional $1,000 a year. Who can afford that? That's potentially over six, seven hundred dollars more a month. And if you're living on a fixed income, it is difficult to find where you are going to come up with that money. This situation creates a place where Puna, which is one of the last affordable places in the state to live, is potentially unaffordable. Just reading through the testimony and talking story to folks about this, folks can't keep up with daily life expenses as it is. Many of them are using their tax refund in order to pay for insurance. Again, fixed income folks can't find additional funding, you also can't get a mortgage without this type of insurance. And so folks stand to potentially lose everything without immediate intervention from folks at the state and potentially to even federal level. Many members of this community are going to be forced into foreclosure, because these costs are not sustainable or affordable. In addition to the social implications, there are economic implications attached to this. HPIA does not provide commercial level insurance. So folks that say use their home to rent things out, that is considered a commercial use. Folks that are providing childcare within their home, that is also a commercial use. They are no longer eligible for coverage. And so this resolution offers up some potential solutions for the state to explore. I hosted a town hall meeting, where folks were able to share how this is going to be impacting them. My office met with insurance Commissioner Gordon Ito, who is from Hawai`i Island. So he totally understands the issue that we are facing, and has promised to be an advocate for the community. I do want to point out, in the haste of developing this resolution, and thank you, Chair Kimball, for allowing us to get it on to the agenda. We literally put this together in a day. In one of the "Be It Resolved", I apologize in the second one, bullet a) should not say increasing HPIA policy premiums. We want to make sure that we're either decreasing the premiums or extending coverage. So I will be putting forward an amendment at Council. There are just other things that I may want to explore. If there's other ideas that folks have, I want to take that into consideration and introduce a suite of amendments at Council. But I did catch that, and I do apologize. We're not the only ones impacted by something like this. In Florida, Universal Property Insurance is not paying out policies. And so that is really significant. I am in contact with Council Members in Florida and California, where they're Page 5 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 seeing folks like State Farm and Allstate pull out because of the wildfires. So with the devastation that happened on Maui, this idea of coverage and everybody being at risk; we are on an island, we're all at risk. This warrants not just a statewide, but a potentially national conversation. And so I look forward to your comments and your support. And again, this is what I feel we can do as a body, and what seems to be sometimes a very helpless situation. But we can at least provide solutions and direct those who have the authority to provide immediate support to our community. Thank you, Chair. I yield. CHR. EVANS: Thank you. Member Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you. Just mahalo, Council Member Kierkiewicz, and your office for putting this together. As we prepare the amendments,just wondering if we can maybe also include a map of zones one and two. Just so that when the public or anyone ever does refer to this resolution, they are able to see visually the areas that are really being impacted by lack of insurance. Thank you so much for bringing this forward. Chair, I yield. CHR. EVANS: Thank you. Member Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair Evans. Really, really appreciate my counterpart in Puna, bringing this forward, I know at the request of the community because there's nowhere to turn for some folks. I thought back, I asked my staff, hey, didn't we do something similar to this? They said yeah, we did. So if you need to draw on—Resolution 75-21 from our office two years ago saying the same thing after we looked at the insurance scheme post eruption and post Iselle. And then, as I thought about this over the weekend and looking at what's happening in Maui, we as a county and a state may need to be prepared for what's to come. Because from what I understand, there's about 22 policies that I'm aware of that were held locally that were for Maui. And that is about as close to 19 million dollars in total liability,just for 22 holdings from that firm. If you look at that as a whole; 2,200 homes we're looking at a huge hit. I think the insurance network that whole business, the way that we look at insuring and valuing properties given everything that we've been through. Hurricanes, eruptions, wildfires, we are about to go on a wild ride of policy. So I'm really concerned where we're heading, because yeah, at some point we won't be able to afford insuring our property anywhere. And in saying that, I do want to be thoughtful as we approach this. Thank you for discussing a) I was concerned about increasing the premiums, like it doesn't seem to go in line with the rest of the resolution. But I want to be thoughtful about not pushing insurance companies away from us, because we've become a high-risk situation in my eyes. Something similar happened in the 90's, regarding unemployment compensation. And we want to be careful to not say, you guys got to pay into this pool, and then Page 6 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 say well at that point your high risk, we don't want to pay and were out. We need to make sure we really open the doors for insurance companies, and the competition to be there and not close doors because of high risk and high cost. So that's my only thoughts. I'll be supporting this. We need options for our. community, we ask you to be really mindful about how we as a county and as a state are walking into the future, given what we've seen in the last five years. So, thank you for bringing this forward. And thank you for the community and speaking to this, and I hope that this helps. Thank you. CHR. EVANS: Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah. Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz, for putting this forward. As Council Member Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder said, and some of the testifiers, you know, right now we're looking at a differential for lava zones one and two. But I think all of us can easily see how this transform into other areas, with other risks. And as you've mentioned, Florida, California this is happening across the country. And your people had certain expectations, especially when they got mortgages, they purchased their homes they'd be able to maintain them. And when we look at the housing picture, I always say there's three pieces of it. And one of those pieces is keeping people in the homes that they already have. So,you know,the increase this could potentially mean for people is insurmountable, and in a lot of cases I can see a lot of people having to leave because of this. Who can buy in; people who can do cash only purchase, right, it shifts the entire landscape. So, thank you for putting this forward, and I'm certainly happy to support it today with the amendment. CHR. EVANS: Okay. Member Kierkiewicz, do you want to respond? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I do. Thank you, I really appreciate the support. I will be putting forward amendments at Council, to include the delineation of various lava zones that have been articulated by USGS (United States Geological Survey). And also to be resolving letter a) in the second"Be It Further Resolved" clause. I also just want to point out that, you know, one of the "Be It Resolved" is for the state to convene the conversations with folks that provide insurance, our various carriers. It's meant to be a collaboration, and to find ways to incentivize folks into the market. After hurricane Iniki there was a mass exodus of different insures. And so, they set up the Hawai`i Hurricane Relief Funds as a way to get homeowners the insurance that they needed. This was the second ranked program after the national flood insurance program, which also builds in incentives to mitigate risk. And so, I think that is something that the state also needs to explore. How do you mitigate risk in these high-risk areas? And so, again, it's going to require every stake holder, government, non-profit business sector coming together putting their Page 7 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 heads together, because this issue goes beyond impacting lava zones one and two. We're really all at risk here. Thank you, Chair. CHR. EVANS: Thank you. Do you have follow up? Yeah, Member Kaneali`i— Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Need to mention, I believe that Hurricane Relief Fund was rated at some point by the State Legislature. And so being clear, we need to make sure that goes into the right people's hands, and not become an alternate fund for whatever legislative things need to happen. Yeah, thank you. CHR. EVANS: Okay. Member Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Yeah,just wanted to sort of follow up. Thank you, Chair. Council Member Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder's mention of the workman's comp insurance situation which resulted in a company called HEMIC (Hawai`i Employers Mutual Insurance Company, which is the insurance company of the last resort for that particular sector which I happen to be on the board of, and which was started by legislation by Mazie Hirono (United States Senator). So we do have potentially a positive example there of a successful homegrown Hawai`i company that takes care of our own. So that might be something to look into as a potential model. Yes, thanks. CHR. EVANS: Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Yeah, thank you. I apologize for stepping in a little late. But in support of this resolution,picking up on some of the comments that were said. And maybe offering to the author, Ms. Kierkiewicz, some type of actionable item in which, perhaps the insurance companies could double up like a larger public awareness campaign that empowers residents with the knowledge. So, in addition to, hey these are all the consequences, give them a carrot to say, hey, if you develop this public awareness campaign, we can help promote it, and or provide avenues to various networks that these are the ones who are really there for you in the time of need and in crisis. And have a good tracker, kind of a pono list, right. Just as a way to even build into this resolution. Absolutely in support of, and look forward to getting this passed. I yield. CHR. EVANS: Thank you, Members. No more discussion, I wanted to just make one comment. You said you put this together really fast and you're going to have couple weeks' time, I believe,to consider that one "Be It Resolved", and it might be that the Hawai`i State Legislature has had studies done on this. A lot of times they'll spend the summers, and they'll write all these reports, and it's possible that they may have actually looked at this, or they looked at the hurricane and how do we deal with it. And there may be some insights in an official report Page 8 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 that might help you expand a little bit on your"Be It Resolved", but I just think this is so timely. I mean you couldn't do it better; this is just perfect timing in my opinion. So, thank you so much for bringing this forth. If there's no more comments, we have a motion on the floor to forward Resolution 223-23 to the Council with a favorable recommendation. All in favor? Vote on Res. 223-23: The motion to recommend adoption Res. 223-23 was carried (Adopted) by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Evans—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Bill 49: INITIATES AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE III, SECTION 3-4 OF THE (Draft 2) HAWAII COUNTY CHARTER(2022 EDITION), RELATING TO VACANCY IN OFFICE Proposes reducing the time allotted for the County Council to appoint a successor to a vacant County Council district seat, establishing restrictions on official candidates being appointed to a vacant County Council district seat, and that a person who has been duly elected to serve the upcoming Council term shall automatically fill a vacancy that occurs for that County Council district seat. Reference: Comm. 305.12 Intr. by: Ms. Evans Postponed: June 6, June 20, July 5, July 25, and August 1, 2023 (Note: There is a motion by Ms. Evans, seconded by Mr. Inaba to recommend passage of Bill 49 on first reading.) (Note: Comm. 305.17 dated August 15, 2023, from Council Member Cindy Evans transmitting a proposed amendment to Bill 49, Draft 2, were circulated.) CHR. EVANS: Mr. Clerk, would you note at 4:10 p.m., I'm going to pass the chair over to my Vice Chair Lee Loy, since I'm the introducer. Thank you. Relinquish Chair: At this time, the Chair relinquished the chair to Vice Chair Lee Loy. Page 9 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair Evans. Let the record reflect I have assumed the chair. Ms. Evans, please lead the discussion. MS. EVANS: Thank you. I have a motion, okay, I got to do the motion right, to move forward with a favorable recommendation on Communication 305-17, to the Council. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Evans, we already have an active motion. Discussion is available if you want to offer any amendments, continue with discussion, we are ready to go. MS. EVANS: Yes. So, I'm offering an amendment; it's Communication 305.17 to Bill 49, Draft 2. Motion to Amend: Ms. Evans moved to amend Bill 49, Draft 2, with the contents of Comm. 305.17. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Evans. MS. EVANS: Thank you, members. So in the communication on the first page, it's showing all the strikes, we struck through and the brackets, but what I encourage you to do is look to the third page. And for the public, it basically removes the strike throughs and the brackets which is kind of how you, I would say, how you work with people in what they call a ramsey format. But page three is basically saying exactly what the changes are to the Charter and how it would read if you were to read it and vote on it because the Charter Amendment is voted by the public. But basically, I listened to what everybody said, and I really tried to simplify it and understand that if there's stuff that we can do in our Council Rules, let's try to do that. And so the big change in sub-section(a) is taking out, within 30 days after the occurrence of any vacant seat, the Council Chairperson shall notify all remaining members of the Council by registered mail. Then on a specified regular meeting date, formal action shall be taken to fill the vacancy. I'm recommending that we delete that language. I believe Council Rules effectively can address how notification will be done to the members. So this is really not necessarily plus it's very dated, because right now the only way we could notify for a vacancy is by registered mail, we have no other choice. So, that's the one recommendation. The other one is kind of more just, what would I call it, maybe some more current language. So, we're basically saying that we're pointing out that qualifications will be required by Section 3.3 to fill the vacancy. Who knows, in the future maybe requirements and qualifications will be changed in the future that would be under Section 3.3. So we're referencing that, okay. Page 10 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 The other change, there's only one other change in this Charter Amendment. And that is if there's a vacancy to be filled after an election—so, how do I explain this, if let's say there's an election for a primary in August and someone is duly elected in that primary and all of a sudden maybe the next month there's a vacancy, what this says is that if they were duly elected in that election and there's a vacancy that they will fill that seat. So they would effectively fill that seat for the remainder of the unexpired term, which was created by the vacancy. And it says that Council Member that's filling that vacancy, that time would not apply to their term limit which is set forth in the Charter under Section 3-2. There was concern that if someone, let's say something happened and there was a vacancy let's say in the month of June, the way this is written it says, "The Council within 60 days can take action". At that particular point, if they started the process of filling the vacancy prior to the primary election, they would just fill the vacancy. And there's no way that the person in the primary would trump that person. I guess it's saying kick them out because you're already in the process of filling the vacancy. So, I think we covered that concern of overlapping, and that's the two changes that I'm recommending. Thank you. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Evans. Questions from the membership? Ms. Kimball, I see your light on. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah,two quick questions with respect to (a) with the removal of that clause about notification, and regular meeting, and everything. Maybe Mr. Clerk, this is a question for you or Corporation Counsel. Would that open up the possibility that a dubious Council Chair, not me of course, would say I'm going to hold off on any action on this for 60 days so that I can appoint the person, because we haven't established a process or indicated a process? MS. EVANS: Corporation Counsel Strance, would you come forward. Thank you. MR. HENRICKS: If I may, I don't think that was a question, I think it was an observation. MS. KIMBALL: I'm not sure what that implies, Mr. Clerk. No, in all seriousness, I think that it could be interrupted that way. MR. HENRICKS: Well, you're speaking logistically that because there isn't a trigger requirement in here that you do something by a certain time, not you, HR (Human Resource)person or presenting officer, if you please,that a Chair could decide not to do anything and then reserve that power to themselves. And if you read it this way, that seems possible. So that's why I said, it was more of an observation than a question. Page 11 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. STRANCE: Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. Council Member Evans and I spoke quite a bit about how much detail to include in a Charter Amendment versus process and procedures that could be set forth in your Council Rules or in the County Code. You know, the provision about how notices occur in the Charter now, kind of highlights the need to remain flexible. And so, the body could take care of the various Council Chair problem through a requirement in your Council Rules about obligating the presiding officer or chair to do certain things upon there becoming a vacancy. And so if you do nothing, I suppose that possibility, is remote as it is to imagine, could take place. But if you had something in your Rules or you put something in the County Code you could prevent that from ever happening. MS. KIMBALL: Alright, thank you. Appreciate the fine dance between the rigidity of the Charter and flexibility of the Code or Council Rules, but I think in this scenario, you would want some sort of trigger that had to happen. So that first clause where the remaining members of the Council shall appoint, is a guarantee to happen, and a Chairperson couldn't just wait out the clock. I feel like that's necessary in that clause. And then my other comment is with respect to be—I think that this needs another just quick wordsmithing. The content is fine. The way I interpret the word not withstanding is that(b) is true unless (a) presents an exception. And so if you read it in that way, it doesn't make sense logically. I would think that(b) is actually probably better as an if clause. So if the scenario exists where someone has been duly elected,then they shall be the appointee. I think the notwithstanding is the incorrect vocabulary there. That's all Chair, I yield. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Any other members, comments on Communication 305.17? Anyone else? MS. EVANS: Chair. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Evans, go ahead. MS. EVANS: Thank you. I noticed with Charters that I read, probably 50 Charters, different world cities; major cities; and counties, and I think that the reason I kind of settled on if the vacancy occurs, the Council has 60 days. I would think that if for some reason there was a resignation or if they weren't showing, they will not show up at the required Council meeting. I tinkered with the idea that if they don't show up to four regularly scheduled consecutive Council meetings, they will be considered a vacancy and you get to replace that person. I considered that, but I went whoa, that's a lot for us to digest, right. But Page 12 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 the reality is, in 60 days they will not be showing up, and they will have to be excused by the Chair if they don't show up. If they're not excused,the Chair will know why, and if there's a legitimate— they've resigned, they've left the country, they you know got killed in an accident. They don't show up the Chair will know, and they will have to excuse it or not excuse it. So I think 60 days seem reasonable for the Council to take action and that the Chairperson really didn't have to put you under the—say within five days you have to notify or with an x amount of days you have to notify. That's why I kind was okay with excepting it; the Council taking action with it in 60 days. Thank you. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Evans. Anyone else? Seeing none, on the motion to amend Bill 49 with the contents of Communication 305.17 please say "aye." Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 49, Draft 2, with the contents of Amend: Comm. 305.17 was carried by the following voice vote: (Approved) Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Evans—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Evans, anything else as amended? MS. EVANS: Yes, I just want everyone to know thank you. If we get it to Council, I will take into account maybe wordsmithing and getting it right. So I want to you know. Thank you. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Great. Anyone else on the main motion? I'm going to go with Ms. Kimball, followed by Mr. Inaba. Ms. Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you, Chair. Appreciate the comments from the drafter with regard to the considerations in Section(a). I think it has more to do with the only mechanism by which the council could act to fill a vacancy would be through some sort of vehicle or resolution, communication, whatever, that would have to be noticed, all of that sort of thing. Unless there is a requirement by the presiding officer that that is done, everything else is controlled by Rules which are flexible. So I still have concerns that there isn't something in here that says, by such and such time—it could be as simple as on the next regular meeting date. I think that captures everything in my mind, but there is some sort of time Page 13 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 element that would require a Chairperson to give the body the opportunity to fill the vacancy and not just wait out the clock. I think that needs to be at the Charter level and not controlled within Rules and Codes,just reiterating that. Thank you. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Mr. Inaba, then Mr. Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder. Mr. Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you, Chair. Yes, to the maker of this bill, I think the intention is if anything to bring more clarity to the process. And with the version we have right now as amended, I don't think that I know you've had discussion with Corporation Counsel perhaps it's kind of reiterating what Chair Kimball just mentioned. I think we can have a little bit more clarity as to the steps, because we're removing notifications steps right now or we did via this last vote. But I think it's important for it to live here in the Charter and not necessarily in the Council Rules that could be amended at any time. So having this voted on by the public and having those steps clearly articulated, I think it's really important. Yup, I think I'll leave it at that. Thank you very much. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Inaba. Mr. Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Yeah, I like where we're getting with this. I really think this is kind of a response to Mr. Richards taking office. And we've seen it maybe one or two times in the past that I'm aware of where we had a Council Member not participating, which might be a little bit different. But I like where we're going. Ms. Kimball pointed something out which is actually interesting, that the way that (b) and (a) interplay with each other, that needs to be addressed because if(a) happens then we're appointing someone within a certain amount of time to fulfill and appoint. But if(b) happens, then (b) happens. So does (b) override (a)? No, okay. MR. HENRICKS: May I interject please? Real quick if you don't mind just from a drafting perspective. So when you look at this section of the Charter, the way that in a manner of vacancies primarily will be filled with (a). Because if you consider logistically the potential that a vacancy would occur after somebody has already been elected for the next term,probably little less likely. So the primary way the vacancies would be filled is through the Council filling it, and if they fail to do so then the Chair filling that vacancy. So (b) is an exception or not an exception, it is kind of an exception(a). So whenever your primary way of doing something is (x) and there's an exception, and it's written not withstanding (x)then this is to happen. So that's why it's written that matter to say. Because it says here when any vacancy occurs in (a). So you have to clearly say in the Charter to make it clear for people that are interpreting it, is what we do now that it's not always when any vacancy. When Page 14 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 the events occur in (b) as described, then (a) it goes away essentially and that's why we say not withstanding (a). MR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you for that. They're not as clear, it's clear to me but I'm wondering, so does (b) need to have a notwithstanding in front of it? MR. HENRICKS: No. Because again, (a) is your primary course of action. If this happens then do these things, (b) is your exception, your caveat if you will. If this extraordinary set of circumstances happens, then this takes over. MR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Okay. For clarity, which is our job to make things clear as day, do we need to have exceptions? Understanding completely what you just said, but I've seen other cases in our Code where we have circumstances and exceptions to those circumstances listed. MR. HENRICKS: You might be able to write this without any subsections, or you could put in subsection (a)potentially provided however if this happens, then this. But I think because there's already two things going on in (a), it would be confusing. So (a) is your course of action that occurs under most circumstances if you have a vacancy. And then a usual circumstance that somebody has been elected to fill that seat where there is a vacancy and those things coincide, and that person has been elected and that vacancy still exists, then (a) is not to be considered (b) as the course of action. That person automatically takes seat upon that vacancy occurring. MR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Okay, I need to think about that for a minute. Thank you, I yield. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder. Ms. Evans. MS. EVANS: Chair, I just wanted to point out that in this instance because it allows the Council 60 days to take action, well Dru Kanuha and Tim Richards resigned on like November 8th, and if you get elected your sworn in on December 5th. So the Council can decide not to take any action, that seat does not get filled. Unless (b) applies, which means if you are officially elected in the Primary. MR. HENRICKS: Or the general. MS. EVANS: Or the general. MR. HENRICKS: By that point in time, if somebody was the incumbent in that seat were elected to a higher office, then there would automatically have to be somebody that had been elected to replace them. So that would be an automatic Page 15 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 transfer on that date of the General Election. That's why it's important to say not withstanding subsection (a). The 60 days wouldn't be important because you wouldn't look to subsection(a), you go right to (b). MS. EVANS: Right. So if I got elected in the Primary or in the General election and there was that vacancy, you know, even for four weeks or whatever. If you were duly elected, you would take the seat, is what it's saying. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Evans. Anyone else? Oh, Mr. Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Sorry. Okay, one more. I cannot underscore the importance of the Council as a body. But I've also come to see the reality that there are majorities. I would like the maker to consider when we say this formal action in Section(a) shall be a motion approved by a majority, I'd like you to just think about it, and maybe you already have if haven't then that's fine, but just think about the political scheme of the Council. In future generations to come and think about the possibility of this being used in a not constructive way, and possibly changing that word majority to be super majority which means you're going to have six votes in favor, instead of five. Because that could shift to being a broader consensus among the Council, as far as this representative coming in versus just a majority that sits already adding one more to that party. I just want you to think about that in a very open-minded process about what kind of political scheme you may see on a Council in the future, and what this could eventually do if there was a vacancy. That's it, thank you, I yield. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder. Ms. Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. So, can I just piggyback on what Council Member Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder was saying. If it was a super majority, you're talking of eight people remember not nine, because we're down one. I would be concerned that most likely would go to having the Chairperson pick because I think it's too easy to not be able to make a decision if you want six people out of eight to agree. Then if they can't it goes to the Council Chairperson to decide, is that correct? MS. EVANS: Yes, and when you're done, I wanted to comment. MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. So that would be my concern, is that throws it even more likely into the hands of one person deciding. Anyway, that's just my two cents. Thank you, Chair. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kagiwada. Ms. Evans. Page 16 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 MS. EVANS: So Judge Strance and I, went around and around on this. So it says when a vacancy occurs in the Council, the remaining members of the Council shall appoint. Well, what we currently have in our Charter is this section of the Charter that talks about the entire membership of the Council, which is nine and if there's a vacancy that occurs, that vacancy is counted to make up the nine. So your majority no matter what will always be five, will always be. So if there's a car wreck or if worst case scenario, they're in Lahaina and we lose two people, we're down to only seven remaining members. Do you want a majority of the remaining members which would be four out of seven or do want to be silent, which will then—the Clerk, you'd have to say is five, it's still five, because the way the Charter is meant, a vacancy still counts towards the membership. So you still have to do five. No matter what, if we keep it silent it will always have to have five, no matter how many remaining members, right. Because it says in the Charter, a vacancy is counted towards the entire membership, but we could say majority of remaining, but then it's the majority of remaining, right. Whatever that number is six or five or eight, right. So Judge Strance, do you—because we've talked about it. I'm telling you this we went around on the remaining member discussion. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Evans. Judge Strance. MS. STRANCE: Thank you. Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. There is a—the County Charter is actually not very clear on this issue. So the vacancy provision talks about the remaining members of the Council, and that's in Section 3-4. And if you go to Section 3-7 of the Charter, 3-7(c) it's states that "the affirmative vote of a majority of the entire membership shall be necessary for council action." But then you go up to the last sentence in that paragraph it states; "whenever the term entire membership appears in this Charter pertaining to council voting, it means the entire membership of nine members." Even if there are vacancies, so the question is, this term remaining members of the Council doesn't say entire membership of the Council. So, there's two ways to read what you have. One is the entire membership; the super majorities are only required for vacancies on boards and commissions. But when it comes to a vacancy on the Council, the size of the council is reduced by the number of vacancies, and then you have a majority there. And so, I think the Charter could be more clear. But the inclusion of the term remaining members at Council is an odd phrase in the context of your Charter, because usually you'll see throughout the Charter,the entire membership of the Council. And so that size never shrinks, regardless of the number of members. And so I think that piece could be a little clearer, in the fact that you're having the discussion about it might shed some light on whether it should be. But I think you need to tell the maker what you're thinking, because she's been trying to craft what she thinks she's hearing at the meetings. Page 17 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 And so if this body starts to express an opinion about what it wants for vote, then that can get crafted into the next amendment. But there's a lot of different ways to look at it, and I think what Council Member Evans was saying is, what if you have several members that are on a trip and something happens and then you have two or three vacancies, it would be very difficult to have a majority of the entire membership vote on the replacements. And you could get very morbid about the whole thing, believe me we went there, but I think you need to kind of express that preference so that we can craft better. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Judge Strance. Any other questions on Bill 49 as amended. If not, we can go to the question. Last one Mr. Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder, we have a hard stop. MR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Okay, this is my last comment. I would suggest a super majority of the remaining Council Members. Because if it does fall back to a Chair vote and that majority is already strong, hey, whatever happens, happens. But by saying that you address what Ms. Strance is saying is, whoever is left in some morbid cataclysmic event of whatever. But it's also touching on how many people are in a majority. But clarifying, it's going to be a large number of Council Members all meeting a consensus, and if it doesn't then it goes back to the Chair. That already tells you, you have a split somewhere, but the super majority of remaining members to me sounds like you would make Betsy happy and would make this feel a little bit safer to me in my eyes. Thank you. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder. Mr. Inaba then Ms. Kagiwada. MR. INABA: Yeah, I'm going to just say a majority of the remaining members in the event that we lose too many and then we have just five left or just four left for some crazy reason and then we're stuck. So I would just say a majority of the remaining members and I'm going to say again, I'll support. Moving this forward, it's by no means I think close to being ready to go pass the next reading at this time. But at the next reading, I keep saying that, at the next time we hear it. At the next hearing, I need to have these provisions that say what's going to happen if this part of the Charter is triggered to see it pass a first reading at Council. So I'll leave it at that. Thank you. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Mr. Inaba. Ms. Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. I'm just going to reiterate my point since you reiterated your point, which is just that I think it should be and I'm following what Council Member Inaba said, the majority of the remaining members not a super majority. Because say you have five people that want one person, and your Council Chair wants the other person, that doesn't seem right to me that one Page 18 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 person can make the decision over five people. So that's just my two cents, my three cents maybe now. Thank you, Chair. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks, Ms. Kagiwada. I'm going to call for the question. I will just leave it here. Absolutely fine with a future iteration, and reserve my votes for, you know, when we're at first reading. I know there's a lot of what if scenarios and they tend to get really morbid. And I just wanted to leave it at more of a highlighted perspective. We just had a Governor's race and a Mayor's race; I have seen Council Members get packed to move into the Administration which leaves vacancies. So, I understand we tend to fall towards the side as if they're no longer with us, and it actually happened when Bobby Jean was in the Council seat; she was in Council District 2, and Mayor Kenoi tapped her and moved her over to DEM (Department of Environmental Management) in which she left or was it with the Planning Department. Corp. Counsel, there we go, a long time ago. And there was a vacancy there, the Chair appointed that appointee sat in that seat. And the next election, did not win that election and we got Council Member Donald Ikeda that year. So,just throwing out all of those perspectives. Often times, it's not as horrific as what we think it is. So I'm going to call for the question, I'm going to be voting in support of this, acknowledging that I hear my colleagues wanting a few more iterations, and then reserve my vote for that. Are we ready? The motion on the floor is to forward Bill 49 as amended, all those in favor please say "aye." Vote on Bill 49: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 49, as amended (Draft 3) to Draft 3, on first reading was carried by the following (Approved) voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Evans—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. Page 19 GOEAC-15 August 15,2023 ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 4:43 p.m., Mr. Inaba moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. Galimba and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Chair Evans—9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: This meeting is adjourned at 4:43 p.m. Thank you. Approved: ro 3/.Uz 3 Ms. Cindy , Chair Date) Committee on Governmental Operations and External Affairs CE/rk Page 20