HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOEAC 2023/10/31 (2022-2024)
Committee on Governmental Operations
and External Affairs
th
20 Session
Hawaiʻi County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaiʻi
October 31, 2023
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations and
ORDER: External Affairs was called to order at 11:13 a.m., in the Council Chambers,
Hilo, by Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Acting Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Vice Chair
Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member
Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member
Mr. Matt Kāneali‘i-Kleinfelder, Member
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member
Absent & Excused: Ms. Cindy Evans, Chair
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called
by the Chair:
Greg Owen: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), comment.
Thomas Brennan: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), in support.
Wendy Laros: Res. 317-23 (Comm. 542), in support.
Celeste Nip: Res. 333-23 (Comm. 565), comment.
Timothy Rowen: Res. 333-23 (Comm. 565), in support.
(representing Black Sands
Community and Malam O Puna)
Keoni Kalawe: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), in support.
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
Ross Wilson: Res. 317-23 (Comm. 542), in support.
Diga Kern: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), in support.
Susie Osborne: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), in support.
Ann Kobsa: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), in support.
Cindy Dupuis: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), in support.
Makoa Freitas: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), in support.
Smiley Burrows: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), in support.
(representing Kapoho Crater) Res. 333-23 (Comm. 565), comment.
Art Taniguchi: Res. 317-23 (Comm. 542), in support.
(representing East Hawaiʻi
Hiroshima Kenjin Kai)
Nancy Carr Smith: Res. 333-23 (Comm. 565), in support.
Deborah Ward: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), in support.
(representing the Sierra Club)
Claudia Chang: Res. 317-23 (Comm. 542), in support.
(representing East Hawaiʻi
Hiroshima Kenjin Kai)
Amadeo Markoff: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), in support.
(representing Mainstreet Pāhoa) Res. 333-23 (Comm. 565), in support.
Jon Olson: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), in support.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Araceley. And thank you to all of
our testifiers. Just to help manage expectations for those in the audience, I’d like
to share with the dais we’re going to start with Resolution 317, and then move on
to Resolution 330, and then 333. And then move Resolution 329 to the end of the
agenda. So with that, Mr. Clerk, Resolution 317-23, please.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
RESOLUTIONS: Order of Resolutions.
Page 2
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
Res. 317-23: APPROVES THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A SISTER CITY RELATIONSHIP
BETWEEN THE COUNTY OF HAWAI‘I AND HATSUKAICHI, HIROSHIMA
PREFECTURE, JAPAN, AND AUTHORIZES THE MAYOR OF THE
COUNTY OF HAWAI‘I TO ENTER INTO A FORMAL SIGNED
AGREEMENT
Authorizes the Mayor to formally establish this sister-city relationship, pursuant
to Section 2-165 of the Hawai‘i County Code.
Reference: Comm. 542
Intr. by: Ms. Kimball and Mr. Inaba
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kimball moved to recommend adoption of Res. 317-23.
Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. It is my privilege and honor to put forth this
resolution to establish a Sister City relationship with Hatsukaichi Hiroshima
prefecture. Mr. Taniguchi was very humble I think, when he came up here and
testified and didn’t mention at all, all of the time and effort he has put into
building the background starting this relationship. And as he mentioned we have
three organizations that are willing to serve as partner organizations with the
county in the sister-city relationship. That is critical to the success of any one of
these sister city relationships. So we had the opportunity to visit with some of our
current sister cities earlier in the year. I had the opportunity to go the Sister City
event in Honolulu with some of our State and other sister cities of the other
counties.
These relationships are really, really, important, and when we talk about
economics, I think the first thing that our minds go to is tourism of course. But
there are so many other areas that we have alignment with our friends in Japan,
whether it’s energy, whether it’s agriculture, whether it's managing waste.
There’s so many areas where we can learn from and share ideas together. So at
this time I’d like to invite our Protocol Officer Jane Clement to come forward and
add anything to the conversation. Thank you.
(Note: At this time Protocol Officer and Executive Assistant to the Mayor
Jane Clement came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. CLEMENT: Good morning, Council Chair, Acting Committee Chair
Lee Loy, and the rest of you wonderful Council Members. Happy Halloween. I
come today dressed as Jane Clement, Executive Assistant to Mayor Mitch Roth
and Program Director of our Sister City program. Very honored to be here and
advocate for Resolution 317-23, establishing relationship between Hawaiʻi
County and Hatsukaichi City, Hiroshima prefecture. And like Heather
Page 3
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
mentioned, this is near and dear to Mr. Taniguchi’s heart, he’s been working
really hard getting everyone together to support this resolution. It just really
makes sense. They’re not strangers to us, we’re not strangers to them. We’ve had
a long relationship between our chambers, the Kona Kohala Chamber of
Commerce and their Chamber of Comerce. I just really want to mahalo the three
organizations who have volunteered to fully support, because they are the glue
that keeps sister city relationships together. And normally, we only have one
sponsoring organization, but this particular one has three and that’s how much
support this relationship is getting. So thank you for considering it today.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. I yield.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. Anyone else?
Mr. Kānealiʻi–Kleinfelder.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI–KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for bringing
this forward, had the pleasure of going to Japan and visit our sister cities in the
past. And just really appreciate the experience and also the exchange that
happens between communities across oceans. So I’ll be fully supporting this
today, and my only question has been answered and that is, who is going to help
foster this as the years go by, as people leave and come and go. And to hear that
we have three very competent organizations and good backing by different
chambers makes me more comfortable in saying yes to this. And look forward to
seeing how this relationship builds in the future for our communities. Thank you,
and good job bringing it forward.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kānealiʻi–Kleinfelder.
Ms. Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Actually, have to keep you up there.
Ms. Clement, thank you. Very supportive of this and it sounds very exciting.
Haven’t had the pleasure of visiting the Hiroshima prefecture before, but I’ve
been to other places in Japan. I’m just wondering, this is actually a more general
question, do we have an overall goal as a county as to how many sister cities we
would like, where in the world we want those to be? Is there a limit to our ability
to have meaningful connections and still give the attention that we need? I don’t
really know the program as far as the bigger picture.
MS. CLEMENT: Right, as far as establishing new sister-city relationships it
really kind of happens organically. Most of the time it’s community members
having interest like art for example, here and other Japanese communities. So,
most of the time it’s a connection between our community here and a community
over in Japan for example, and then we start that conversation. As far as limit to
how many, gosh it's a lot of work. You know, if you really want to make a
meaningful partnership it’s a lot of work, it requires a lot of effort and funding
Page 4
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
too, but there’s no limit really. A sister-city relationship is based on similarities
as well. So, we have to have some kind of common things that we share between
communities. So, we take those into consideration. And of course, most
importantly, we have to have a local organization that will help support and
sustain it because when the Administration changes, some Administrations are
very supportive of a sister-city program and some are not. And there has to be a
continuation of that communication, and the supporting organization helped to do
that. So that’s kind of key.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. So, are there any areas in the world that we do not
have sister-city relationships with that are of particular interest to the county or
you just wait and see if the community brings someone to you?
MS. CLEMENT: Most of the time, yes. So, my time is spent maintaining what
we already have, right now we have 11. Nine are very active, and then we are
adding Hatsukaichi. We are considering at the moment, we’ve been considering
this for a while, a sister-city relationship with some of the atolls in the Republic of
Marshall Islands. We’re trying to figure out how to do that, because it’s a small
island with a very small population. Fifty people per atoll. And so, we’re trying
to see if we can just do a hui of islands or atolls or we do the entire country. So
we’re trying to figure that out, we’re working with the Marshallese consulate in
Honolulu.
MS. KAGIWADA: Well, that sounds very interesting, look forward to hearing
how that goes. I’m very supportive of the sister-city program in general, because
I think having a bigger world view than just what’s happening on our little island
is super important. So, thank you for doing that, I don’t know if you ever
considered looking at the Kanagawa prefecture. It’s not as prestigious as the
Hiroshima prefecture, but that’s where the Kagiwadas hail from. Anyway, thank
you so much, I appreciate it.
MS. CLEMENT: Pretty soon we’re going to have the entire Japan as our sister
country.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you. Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I just wanted to take a moment and just really
say thank you, Art Taniguchi, he’s serves as our honorary consulate general to
Japan. So, we’re just really appreciative of all of the work that you do behind the
scenes to facilitate the conversations, but also ensure that these relationships
remain strong over the years. Thank you, Jane, and everyone at the chambers for
all of your involvement in helping to facilitate and make this happen. I was in
th
10 grade when I took my first international trip, to Japan, Kiyoto Saitama
Page 5
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
prefecture, Iwatsuki City. There was a student exchange program, that was so
incredibly enlightening and empowering for me. Just gaining, I think a global
perspective and understanding of just how other cities and communities operate,
having appreciation for different cultures and customs and traditions.
So, I’m really excited about our county being able to foster this sort of
relationship with another city. I really do hope that there is a track for our youth
to have an opportunity to visit Japan because a lot of the challenges we are facing
are global in nature, and it’s going to come down to our ability as communities to
kind of work together and see our shared humanity to solve for them. So very
much supportive of this resolution and thank you so much for all of your hard
work to make this happen.
MS. CLEMENT: Mahalo, Council Member Kierkiewicz. May I share really
quickly, that I just actually came back from Okinawa a couple weeks ago. I
brought with me six high school students, representing four different high schools
of our island. And we did an amazing cultural exchange, and I have to tell you
these kids, they’re different people. When we first got there and after we came
back from that travel, they gained so much more perspective of the world. They
have respect for different cultures, and it was just a really amazing exchange.
th
These kids will have a symposium on November 4, it’s a Saturday in Kona
chamber at 2:00 p.m. They will be presenting their experiences, their challenges,
and everything that they’ve learned throughout this new program that we created
for our sister cities. It’s called Ale Lau Loa and it’s a global youth ambassador
program and they were the first cohort of students to go to Japan. We hope to be
able to take more students and have that experience.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Jane. Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz.
Anyone else? Alright seeing none, you know, I do want to lend my support to
this resolution. I think it was Ms. Kierkiewicz, myself, and maybe Mr. Chung,
who attended Art’s ceremonies. What a distinguish honor of, I hope I’m saying it
right the order of the rising sun, gold neck or red neck honor. That evening was
just full of so many stories of Art and how much he’s contributed to this sister-
city program. Jane, before you leave though, I wanted you to take a few minutes.
We have this resolution in front of us, but what the next steps would be after this
is passing and what we can anticipate as we begin to galvanize this relationship
going forward.
MS. CLEMENT: Certainly, after this hearing we’ll have one more hearing at
Council in a couple of weeks. And once the resolution is approved, we will then
start conversation and discussion with Hatsukaichi City Government as to the
formal signing of agreement between mayors. We’re actually already starting that
conversation now, in anticipation of the approval of this resolution. I had my
initial meeting with their international relations department a couple of days ago,
Page 6
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
and Art was in attendance as well over Zoom, and everyone’s very excited about
this relationship. We are hoping to be able to sign this formal agreement in
Hatsukaichi beginning of the year, next year. So, we’ll definitely keep you all
posted on that.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thanks for that, Jane. You know, not seeing any
more comments, ready for the vote. All those in favor of approving
Resolution 317 and forwarding to Council with a favorable recommendation
please say “aye.”
Vote on Res. 317-23: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 317-23 was
(Approved) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kāneali‘i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Kimball, and Acting Chair Lee Loy – 6.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Evans, Inaba,
and Villegas – 3.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you.
Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the
following items were taken out of order:
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The Chair called Ilana Stout, who registered to comment on Res. 330-23
(Comm. 559) and came forward when called.
Res. 330-23: STRONGLY URGES PROTECTION OF IWI KŪPUNA AT KUMUKAHI
AND COLLECTIVE ACTION TO PRESERVE AND MANAGE CULTURAL
AND NATURAL RESOURCES OF KUMUKAHI
Seeks to preserve and protect this site by limiting exposure to burial sites and
cultural features.
Reference: Comm. 559
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to recommend adoption of Res. 330-23.
Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Kierkiewicz.
Page 7
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you so much. And first I just want to start by
saying, mahalo nui to lineal descendants, Uncle Keki and Uncle Keoni. As well
as our resilience capacity area co-chairs Aunty Susie Osborne, Aunty Kuʻulei
Cooper, and our recovery officer Douglas Le. And for folks that are in this room
that were on Zoom, thank you for collaborating on this resolution and helping to
shape it. This resolution is a policy statement. It is an acknowledgement of the
work that has been done over the last few years, in collaboration by county and
community, to address long-standing issues in the area. It is also a policy
statement I feel that is very important, because in government often times folks
like to say that’s not my jurisdiction. And that’s not what we’re doing here, we’re
not passing the buck.
We’re doing something differently, we’re building awareness. And I think each
of us in our capacity, county, state, community, non-profit, resident, we’re all
stepping to the table and thinking about what can I do, what can my contribution
be? And that’s really how a functioning society should work. Think a lot of our
testifiers really did illuminate the significance of Kumukahi, many ‘ōlelo noʻeau
talk about Puna being the gateway to the sun, to ʻike. It also happens that
Kumukahi is in Puna, and in ‘ōleo Hawaiʻi, Puna means spring, which is about
renewal about growth. And that is so significant in the kind of work that we are
doing here, where we are not just dismissing, I think, things of the past, things of
cultural significance. But we’re really elevating it, and in this moment thinking
about ways we can do things differently. We’ve talked about this place being a
puʻuhonua, a wahi pana, a leinaʻala, also, a place for folks to recreate and
continue to lawai a lifestyle.
Unfortunately, there have been situations where there has been desecration of iwi
kupuna, of our burials, of iwi being taken and to this day, decades later, 24 years
later still needing to be re-entered. And folks that live in the area have talked
about the changing nature following the eruption, and this need. This need of if
we’re going to open up, let’s please do it right, let’s do it right. Let’s make sure
that we have a stewardship and a management plan in place where we all
contribute a little bit. I think the eruption provided a pause in time for us to
reflect as a community what do we want for ourselves and for this area. It’s also
giving, I think it’s the county, time to step up in a really big way and provide
leadership in convening state partners, property owners, lineal descendants. And
Iʻve got to tell you these meetings have been rough. They have not been easy.
Yelling matches, kind of worried people were going to throw blows, thank
goodness it happened during the pandemic over Zoom.
No but seriously, this place has so much significance to the community. But I
really appreciate the leadership of our Recovery Officer and our Planning
Director to work through that tension, to try to find a solution. We don’t have a
perfect solution, but I think what we’ve done, as Diga says, weʻve raised the
consciousness, there’s greater awareness about what we can and what we should
Page 8
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
be doing. And so, as there is work being done by the county to restore roads,
infrastructure, water systems, because the community has been incredibly patient
and we need to have that work going. We also need to use the rest of the time we
have left before light house is restored to work swiftly with state, with
community, with county, with Hoʻoulu Lahui, our designated non-profit. To
identify what this plan, this shared collective action plan would look like.
So, this again, resolution, is acknowledging work that’s been done to date. But
it’s also pushing for greater involvement by the state, specifically DLNR
(Department of Land and Natural Resource) because of that new beach, and the
Office of Hawaiian Affairs, because of the significant cultural and natural
resources that are in the area. We must honor, protect, preserve, cultural and
natural resources immediately and in perpetuity so that our kids and future
generations can enjoy this place. We need to find ways to implement community-
based solutions to steward ʻāina, and to do this in a way that is rooted in history,
in culture, in place. And we need to empower our residents to do this. It’s not
about creating more government jobs, it really is how do we empower keiki,
kupuna, folks of that ʻāina to do the work.
We also, through this resolution, are supporting the Department of Planning in
continuing to facilitate the conversations and action. And we’re also calling on
OHA (The Office of Hawaiian Affairs) and DLNR to step up and do a little bit
more. Happy to answer any questions folks might have, but just really appreciate
everyone’s kind consideration in passing this resolution. Thank you, Chair.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Ms. Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah. Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz, for bringing
this forward. And I really appreciate how you and others on this Council, I think
we’ve done this pretty consistently, have not just passed the buck and said “Well,
not really in our jurisdiction, we’re going to leave it alone.” No, we’re problem
solvers on this, and I appreciate that you’ve put this forward and try to move the
needle. You know, we have many places like these, each special and unique in
their own way, and I think we’re doing something in these spaces now that’s
really amazing. And there’s been a couple of times recently, where Iʻve been on
panels talking about how we can lead the world in this understanding of
relationship and kuleana to place in terms of being better stewards, whether it’s
from a natural resource’s perspective or a cultural perspective. And so, this is a
step, I think it is transportable to many, many, other places.
I apologize, I don’t know this area very well. And so fully supportive of the
resolution, but I just would like for my own edification just a little bit of a bigger
landscape of who owns the property we’ve been talking about. How’s the inner
play with the FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) funding and the
rebuilding of the road. I know we get a lot of folks from your district that want
Page 9
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
the road and the water back. I don’t know where these all lie physically in space.
So, if you could just paint that picture a little bit, I’d appreciate it. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: And I also wanted to call up our Recovery Officer Douglas
Le, because he has been inner facing with a lot of the property owners in the area.
Are you familiar with what used to be Four Corners? Okay, that is the vicinity in
which we are talking about, and there are about four or five major landowners in
that particular area that the county has been inner facing with. And Douglas can
speak to where we are, in terms of road restoration and sequencing of those
projects.
(Note: At this time, Disaster Recovery Officer Douglas Le came forward
to address the members of the Committee.)
MR. LE: Good morning, Council Members, Chair, Douglas Nam Le, Disaster
Recovery Officer with the County Planning Department. Before I have a chance
to really address Chair Kimballʻs question more directly, I’m really here to
acknowledge the leadership and collaboration that has brought us to this moment
on the resolution that Council Member Kierkiewicz has really consulted, and kind
of being very thoughtful about bringing the many voices, all the voices you’ve
heard this morning, to come together around this resolution. And I also think it’s
really important, that the folks who come up to testify have spoken to why
collaborative action is needed. What the need is, and what the opportunity is.
We could get into a lot of detail of what’s happening in the area. I think some
very important things to recognize, one is that, you know, following the 2018
eruption, the inundated number of public roads, and also inundated a number of
public water systems. We are now at a point where the Federal Emergency
Management Agency, FEMA, is providing grants to the county Department of
Public Works (DPW) to restore roads, and the Department of Water Supply to
restore the water network. And we have been collaborating with them from the
beginning, right. There’s just a lot of steps and a lot of process to get here. Most
recently, FEMA issued a draft environmental assessment. This was released for
comment in early August, and for 30 days they received comments.
They were very thoughtful over comments about the many issues that matter to
people and what’s possible in restoring the road and water line systems. In this
work while the county departments are receiving the funds and implementing the
projects, FEMA is the responsible entity, right, so they are the entity who’s is
conducting the environmental assessment, writing it, making the determinations
to move this project forward. In that in review process, the county, represented
by the Planning Department, and Public Works, and Water Supply, have been
parties. If they need something we get it to them, if they need an answer, we get
Page 10
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
it to them, just so we can really work through this process and move forward into
starting construction, right, following final design and procurement.
And in the time that FEMA was receiving comments in August and September, a
number of comments came up. They really reflect the discussion we had today
here at Council. Really what has transpired, right, the harm that’s still open from
the initial desecration of several sights where iwi kupuna were taken in the late
90’s, to all the many issues that many communities raise today. What is really the
next step here? So, at the Kumukahi Lighthouse Road, you know, from Four
Corners and as we look out makai, approximately 700 feet of that roadway was
inundated by lava, and Public Works’ plan is to improve about 900 feet. So, if
you kind of walked out to that 700-foot point, you’d be looking up about 18 feet
of lava, right, so we need to have a safe transition back to the formal grade of the
road that we know.
And the last couple of months FEMA has been really working through to not only
record, document, and prepare responses to the comments that it received on its
draft and environmental assessment. The last update that we received from
FEMA was about a week and a half ago, is that they’re looking to close out that
process, release a final environmental assessment that will also have all the
comments reflected and responded to. But one specific piece that FEMA asked of
the county and really Public Works took up the charge, was to look at what the
project schedule, which originally proposed working on the Kumukahi
Lighthouse Road as part of an early phase, to move it towards the end. So, to
look at what it would mean and what it would take to restore that segment of the
Kumukahi Lighthouse Road as a final phase, maybe four out of four of the phases
that were first proposed.
So Public Works—challenge. They provided it back to FEMA and FEMA now
has information to really directly address some very specific concerns that were
raised by people who provided comments and their insight about what they feel is
necessary. And as we touched upon a lot today, it does give us time to be able to
move forward together. The work that we began, I really have to recognize
Planning Director Kern’s leadership. His first task with our team was to start this
conversation, bring everyone to the table, Department of Land and Natural
Resources, Office of Hawaiian Affairs, University of Hawaiʻi, property owners,
lineal descendants of Kula, some of whom whose iwi were desecrated, and
they’ve been fighting that fight for decades now, and the war continues.
I think Council Member Kierkiewicz described it aptly around the hard work that
it takes to not only undo a lot of harm that has fallen upon folks in our community
but also to look forward. So, I really appreciate the collective action aspect of this
resolution, the war continues. We continue to have conversations and if I may
represent kind of the interest of the number of state agencies and the private
property owners, there’s no question in my mind that there is a strong will and a
Page 11
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
desire to do what is right. That has been very clear from day one. Does knowing
that we all need to do what is right provide us all the answers we need to do
today? Not yet, and that’s what’s really important about, I think, the focus and
the call to action that this resolution provides.
Very specific to the site and the area, you know, the Kumukahi Lighthouse Road
that we are aware of that goes from Four Corners out to the lighthouse and onto
both the inundated and newly accreted lands from the Kapoha flows in 1955 and
1960, as well as kind of the accreted lands and the newly created beach resulted
from the 2018 eruption, there’s quite a mix of both public and private ownership.
Of course, all of the accreted lands, both from lava eruption and from the beach
that has formed, our unencumbered state lands, so I don’t have a figure on that,
but it’s quite a bit.
There are 58 acres that the University of Hawaiʻi owns and kind of in between
private property and also kind of where the new lands flow, and the University
has spent the better part of last two years creating a ground treatment plan for the
burial sites on their property and that has been making steady progress. I think
the last update I got was that a draft version was adopted by the Burial Council so
it’s really important progress. But understandably, the mitigation protection
needs to be in place for iwi to return and I understand that, everyone at the table
understands how important that is.
But there are also a number of private properties. You know, the extent of the
Kumukahi Lighthouse Road from Four Corners to the lighthouse, it’s my
understanding that the first about two-thirds of that extent is county right-of-way.
The remainder actually is a private road. In the way the Kapoho used to be a
village and kind of—you look back at the history of the area before the 1955 and
1960 lava flows, you can kind of tell why some of the parcels look a little
different than what you would expect. So, that’s reflected in kind of its mixture
of public and private ownership. I think Nicole, who testified earlier, raised a
very critical point that the life of the land and how people lived on the land kind
of doesn’t really fall along these jurisdictional, government to private lines or
these private property lines.
So there are a number of burials that are both on public land and on private land
and in addition to both precontact burials and more contemporary burials, there
are a number of cemeteries both of different—reflecting different—the long
history of Hawaiʻi, not only Hawaiian families going back many generations but
also I named it the diaspora communities who’ve come to Pāhoa and the areas
around them and that is where their people are also interred and resting.
So that’s at least my version of kind of what is there and kind of what the real
needs are. It is a mixture of kind of public and private ownership. Some are real
skinny, not so expected lots and others are over 100 acres. And not only interest
Page 12
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
of the lineal descendants of Kula, the families of all the different facets of our
community who have family buried there, but also the cultural practitioners, you
know, the families who have fished off those cliffs for many generations as well.
It all speaks to the need for action.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. Thank you both for that very detailed and full
background. I can’t help but think of the parallels between what’s being
experienced in that area and you know we have the presentation about Keaukaha,
certainly in Waipiʻo as well, and it’s not so much about excluding people but it’s
making sure that the right number are going at any given time that the intent—
there’s a purpose, there’s an intent, and there’s a way of behaving in those sites. I
think between all of these different projects, I hope we can keep communicating
really openly about them because I think there’s ultimately something that’s going
to gel, whether it’s a wahi pana overlay that we can put in Chapter 25 over these
areas but it expresses a management plan or some other mechanism, but I think
we’re inching towards something like that and I for one am very excited, but very
happy to support this resolution today. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kimball, anyone else?
Mr. Kānealiʻi-Kleinfelder.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Appreciate all the
testifiers who came out today to support this, and Mr. Le, thank you for your
presentation as well. Iwi kupuna is an issue, I think, island wide and statewide
and for a number of cultures across the globe. So, recognizing our descendants in
Kumukahi and ensuring that we protect them is incredibly important, but I would
say, even further across the state, ongoing issue. So, I’ll be supporting this
resolution today and appreciate this being brought forward.
Question for the department, has anything changed recently or is it being—was
there a problem this resolution is addressing or we’re just making sure that we’re
perpetuating this relationship between community and government?
MR. LE: I think it’s the latter. Over the past few—the issues and kind of the
practices at Kumukahi predated the 2018 eruption, no question, right? And kind
of from the Planning Department side, we’ve been—the county departments to be
able to move this project forward, all the state and federal folks as well. You
know, one thing I appreciate about this resolution is that it’s really capturing a lot
of the desires and the vision of what needs to happen moving forward from
members of the community, including the descendants. And so I really do think
it’s the latter, right on how we described it of kind of capturing where we are and
giving some direction on how to move ahead.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Yeah, I think the Planning
Department is probably the most crucial department to be considered,
Page 13
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
given anytime we have land use changes, and you start involving SHPD (State
Historic Preservation Division) and you go through the planning phases, and
you’re rezoning, anything that can happen along those lines would definitely start
to touch on protection of iwi kupuna, as well as how the community is looking to
see the community developed. And I use that term very loosely and how they see
their area being protected, being provided access to. So, yeah, this is incredibly
purposeful in pointing to the Planning Department as that entity, to ensure that
everything is being done appropriately.
MR. LE: Agreed.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Kierkiewicz, thank you for bringing this
forward, I’ll be supporting this today. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kānealiʻi–Kleinfelder. Anyone else?
As I sat here and listened to the testimony, and thank you to all of the testifiers, all
I kept thinking was, and Aunty Susie can understand this, was e ala e, which
means to stand up and wake up. And for someone who has had to chant E Ala E
down there, it really is that connection. In total support of this resolution and
really leaning into the Planning Department around this. In Planning, we have
what’s known as ABCD, which is our asset-based community development. And
I spoke to our native Hawaiian Chamber about retooling that, where ABCD
means āina belonging community collaboration and development. Because all ʻ
too often, āina is always missing in the conversation and how doʻ we elevate that
consciousness of āina. ʻThis resolution actually does that, it puts āina and our ʻ
iwi kupuna first and foremost, and the reason why I can wholeheartedly support
this resolution is because we are putting āina and our iwi kupuna first. Juʻst love
this idea, I look forward to where this resolution can take us and maybe even
some stewardship monies out of the PONC (Public Access, Open Space, and
Natural Resources Commission) fund, just putting out there.
But really, thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz, for really creating a different lens on how
we develop areas or not. With that, Council Members, we have a motion on the
floor to forward Resolution 330-23 to the Council with a favorable
recommendation, all those in favor, please say “aye.”
Page 14
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
Vote on Res. 330-23: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 330-23 was
(Approved) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kānealiʻi-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
and Acting Chair Lee Loy – 6.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Evans, Inaba,
and Villegas – 3.
Excused: None
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: We’re on Resolution 333.
Res. 333-23: STRONGLY URGES THE OFFICE OF THE MAYOR TO INCREASE
CAPACITY AND FUNDING FOR THE HAWAI‘I FIRE DEPARTMENT TO
PROACTIVELY MITIGATE THE POTENTIAL IMPACTS OF WILDFIRES
Reference: Comm. 565
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to recommend adoption of
Res. 333-23. Seconded by Ms. Galimba.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I think everybody knows we are in
budget season, and I really wanted to make sure I was doing my part to connect
with all of the departments to see what their needs were. In recent
communications with Fire there are clearly needs that have been building up year
over year, and so wanted to put something forward that really calls on this
Administration to prioritize Fire, investment in the department, in mitigation and
prevention measures so that we can mitigate potential impacts of wildfires.
We have seen our fair share as a County. We saw the unfortunate loss and
devastation on Maui and there have been instances where here on our island, we
have been dangerously close to being like Lahaina and Kula, and so everything
that we can do to support our department and ensuring that they’re safe and they
have everything that they need to respond safely and effectively is incredibly
important.
In years past, each Mayor has had a very specific budget priority and I’m hoping
that this upcoming fiscal year, it can be for Fire. This resolution was done in
collaboration with the Fire Department, and I just want to take a special moment
to mahalo nui Chief Patrick Springer for helping me to pull together all of the
really incredibly important information and details in each of the exhibits to kind
Page 15
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
of justify each of our action measures that we’re putting forward here. In a
nutshell, there’s no such thing as a fire season anymore. It is a year around
challenge that our firefighters are having to deal with, combating these infernos,
and so just want to take a moment to thank everybody for their dedication and
service. But it’s clear that our department needs more. There have been a
number of audits and assessments that really highlight this.
In addition, there needs to be strategies to prevent fires, preparedness, force and
watershed health so that we can have fire adapted communities and more resilient
landscapes. And we’ve got to invest in our people, making sure that they have
training, apparatus, equipment, facilities that are not deplorable, and on-going
facilities maintenance so that we can ensure our personnel can provide a safe and
effective response.
Full disclosure, my partner’s a firefighter, super proud of him. He works at
Station 5. I have no financial gain with this resolution, but you know what I do
get? Peace of mind. Peace of mind that he’s okay, that his colleagues are okay,
and they have everything they need to go out and give their best when they’re
fighting fires. So, no financial gain, just making sure that the folks that dedicate
their lives to protecting our community have everything that they need.
I also just want to take a moment to recognize that an important part of this
resolution, too, is to identify the most appropriate role, our volunteer fire
department place in complementing our dedicated, career personnel. We
appreciate them. We appreciate their service. They are particularly helpful in
rural areas because there is so much geography on this island to cover, that we
really do need all hands-on deck. So, wanting to make sure that we are doing an
assessment to see what does our career need, personnel need, what do our
volunteers need so that we can all be working cohesively so that at the end of the
day, when there is a call for fire service, everyone can respond swiftly, because
every minute counts.
Thank you to Fire 1, Chief Okinaka, Royd Henderson, I think Captain Komata is
hiding back there. I know that Chas Taketa and Chief Springer wanted to be here,
but they are in mandatory training to recertify, so I’m glad that they’re doing that.
But I did want to invite Fire 1 to come forward, if he’s able to, to just kind of
speak to the merits of this resolution. Now, are you actually hurt or is this your
Halloween costume? Please enlighten us.
(Note: At this time, Fire Chief Kazuo Todd came forward to address the
members of the Committee.)
MR. TODD: So yeah, I have a torn meniscus. Four or five years ago, I was
doing a Sayre event and I stepped on the loading dock and blew out my meniscus.
I had surgery, repaired it, retore it, and so every now and then it just flares up
Page 16
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
because I twist my knee in the wrong way and it pops, and then it’s swollen for a
day, and I take a bunch of ibuprofen, and walk around with a cane and a brace,
and then tomorrow I’ll be fine and back to normal.
I’m recycling a uniform I might have used back in the day as my costume because
I’m lazy so I’m acting as an old firefighter today. But yeah, thank you very much
for having me up here and thank you for putting forward this resolution.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, I yield for now in case folks have questions for
myself, and we also have members of the department here. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz.
Mr. Kānealiʻi-Kleinfelder.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Nice costume Chief,
appreciate that.
MR. TODD: I do like the mug you have in front, it matches the costume there.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. If you did want some tea, I have
some for you.
MR. TODD: Very nice. Very nice.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: So Chief, are you saying that you need more
money?
MR. TODD: Yeah, you know, just like $20 or $30 million.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
MR. TODD: Yeah. Yeah. You know, each year I’ve come in front of you guys
with a PowerPoint and talk about kind of how we decided to fund our
government, where we’ve put our priorities, and everything else. I think it’s
important, from my role as the Fire Chief, to be as transparent as possible and
discuss the things we’re doing well but also the things we’re maybe not meeting
that need and what is that gap between us. I think each director needs to come up
front and explain that to both yourselves here as well as the Mayor and the
Administration as well, to kind of just give them the full picture. Then it’s up to
our governing body to kind of figure out where we’re going to go and how we
decide to fund things and what our priorities are going to be.
But over the last two years that I’ve been Chief that I’ve actually had to come in
front of you, I have actually talked about kind of our issues and where we’re
doing well but also where we’re kind of falling short a little bit. So this is a little
Page 17
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
bit more of the same but I’m glad to see that there is some interest in having that
deeper conversation and independent of me sitting in front of you, if any of you
want to have that sit down conversation about our department and where we’re
going and what we’re doing, I’m always available to dive deeply into the numbers
or the concepts or priorities that we’re putting forward to make things happen.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: I appreciate that. I had a feeling you were
going to say we need more money.
MR. TODD: You know, it might have been (inaudible) the last couple of years. I
don’t know why. I don’t know why.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: What’s the current atmosphere in your
budget discussions regarding what we’re talking about right now?
MR. TODD: You know, I would say in the last two and a half years, I’ve been
actually really happy in our EMS (Emergency Medical Services) budget. I was
able to reach out over the year and talk to our legislature and they added
$1.2 million, which allowed us to hit a run on 70/30 percentage budget for
equipment, OCE (Other Current Expenses) versus Salaries and Wages and I’m
feeling very comfortable. I’d like to tweak a couple things on the EMS side but
the state’s given us, but I’m very happy with how that budget is.
The other year we went to the legislature, I grabbed the other two chiefs from the
neighbor islands, and we went and knocked on doors and we got them to start
funding the state beaches for their equipment. And this year there’s a little bit in
there to try and address some of the shortfalls from the county side, but if we get
that I’ll be very happy with the lifeguard side.
The fire side, there’s some gaps. As I sat in front of you a few weeks ago to talk
about it, it’s not as simple as just throwing money at the Fire Department and
expecting us to solve the situation of Lahaina. This isn’t—these kinds of events
that are happening are not in the sense of just throwing more suppression at it. It
has to be a full picture that we’re looking at. How do we start mitigation? How
do we work with communities and things like that? So, some of the things I’ve
put in the supplemental packages this year, which I am looking for funding, are
kind of aimed at more of that holistic package. How do we work with
communities? How do we work with fire wise? How do we work with our
County Council Members and our legal laws in terms of going in and clearing
from that or addressing these vacant and abandoned dwellings to addressing
properties that have got just fire hazards in terms of the amount of grass and
things like that.
But generally, there’s a variety of things and most of them do actually cost some
money, so there is an ask there, obviously.
Page 18
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: Appreciate that. I like you because you’re
kind of a forward thinker and we need that right now. But it isn’t just fire, it’s
kind of a spectrum of different things that are happening within the County and
Lahaina was a perfect example of just the worst case of everything all at once.
MR. TODD: Yeah, by no means am I only coming to the County Council and the
Mayor and the administration asking for money. We’ve been pushing hard on the
state level and the other week I was up in D.C. trying to drum up federal money
and then we’re pretty active on our grant funds in terms of applying for grants.
This year—I’ve got to head back up to the office a little bit later and I think we’re
looking at somewhere around 7 or 8 million (dollars) right now that we’re going
to be asking for from the Community Wildfire Defense grants and that’s just one
type of grant that we’re going after, but we also apply to SAFER (Staffing for
Adequate Fire Emergency Response), we apply for assistance for firefighter
grants, we apply to CDBG (Community Development Block Grant), CWDG
(Community Wildfire Defense Grant), you name the four-letter acronyms, I’ve
got like applications going out all over the place. It gets a little confusing even
for me, but our goal is every grant, every year and try to bring in as much money
that way as possible so we’re as little of a burden to the county’s budget as
possible. And very much we’ve seen some success from that.
We’re also highly active with the community members and talking to them about
what assistance to the Sayre Foundation or other areas can we get stuff done or
just have community also be a part of that process. Because we talk about the
whole community approach and coming in and tackling this from fire wise,
community as in Waimea Community Association or you name it, there are other
agencies, whether they’d be 501(c)(3)s or just community agencies that are
looking to be involved in this process, and we’re going to try and do it that way as
well. So we’re not just here for money from the County Council and the Mayor
and the Admin, but it is one part of the picture obviously.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: Understood. Understood. Thank you for
being here today, appreciate your time. I know you’ve been waiting patiently,
and I will touch bases with you offline to kind of understand where you’re headed
beyond this resolution. Thank you.
MR. TODD: We did just submit our budget packet to Finance, so I can always
send you guys a copy of the supplemental budgetary request that we’re putting
through and then talk about kind of like why—everything in my budgetary
request is broken down by category of what major issue addresses, what
importance level it is, whether it’s very important or medium importance and so
on, and then an actual breakdown of one through 55, I think, requests for millions
of dollars.
Page 19
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: There is one thing I want to keep saying is
my biggest concern, given our very rural spread-out nature on this island and our
lack of resources, we need to be incredibly cognizant of our potential to have a
massive wildfire. And I think what I remember from the fire in Lahaina that
stood out to me was we actually had a fire here at the same time and it didn’t
really make breaking news because there was such a precedent and pressing
circumstances happening in Maui but from what you explained to me, we were in
danger at that point too.
MR. TODD: We did lose two bridges. We lost a warehouse and I’ve got to give
credit where credit is due, my operational personnel and also my volunteers did an
amazing job. Also, our partners, we worked with the Department of Forestry and
Wildlife, we had community support, we had personnel from PTA (Pohakuloa
Training Area) there, we had personnel from the National Park Service fighting
the fire with us. Waimea Community Association provided meals.
I wanted to send some help to Maui, but we were busy for a couple of days. We
had seven fires start on the same time period that Maui was going on. And even
in Maui, everyone focuses on Lahaina, but I mean, you got the Kula fire, the
Olinda fire, they lost, I think, 18 structures in the Kula fire alone, which is on a
totally different section of the island. So, they had some issues that day, and I
hate to say it but there isn’t enough money on their island or Honolulu or our
island to deal with those kinds of issues to out suppress, which is you can’t have
that many firefighters day after day waiting for that big one and make it
financially responsible. So, this needs to be that whole community approach
where we were talking about fire wise and how do we safeguard our homes, how
do we look at our building codes, how do we look at our tax structure, kind of the
same conversation we had earlier.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: And it’s going to take good, strong, forward
thinkers like yourself.
MR. TODD: Appreciate that.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. I yield, Chair.
MR. TODD: I also like the outfit, very nice.
ACTING CHAIR LEE LOY: Thank you, Mr. Kānealiʻi-Kleinfelder, anyone
else? Ms. Kimball, go ahead.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz, for this resolution as
well. Certainly, very timely given what happened here and in Maui as well as it
being the time that we are looking at the budget. I did have an opportunity to
finally see Lahaina yesterday and I was—I mean it’s changed a lot. I think
Page 20
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
everything has been levelled, you know, they have cleared down a lot of the
buildings but the area just kind of blew my mind. It was a massive area.
MR. TODD: So historically, if they can restore 20 or 25 percent of the homes in
five years, they’re very progressive. So, these major conflagrations that come in,
you’re talking like Marshall Fire, campfire in the mainland and people can drive
in to do construction and help rebuild and things like that. They can truck
concrete and other stuff so their ability to rebuild after a disaster is probably a
little bit easier than ours is, right? But even then, five years out, a good
restoration is only 25 percent of the homes have been rebuilt, and they’re not
hitting that on some of these locations, you know?
So, when we look at Lahaina, which is 2,200 structures, five years from now, I
would be surprised if you see a couple of hundred of those haven’t been returned
and rebuilt. It is a very long road to recovery when these mass disasters happen
with conflagrations and whatnot. It is best to prevent them from happening if we
can at all ways, and better suppression is good but also, we’ve got to look at that
hazard mitigation side of things and good plans and good communication as well
as public information. So, it’s really that whole community approach and the
holistic view that we need to be taking when we tackle these issues.
MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you. Thank you for that. Yeah, it’s going to take a
very long time to recover if it ever really does. I mean it’s pretty tremendous, and
the other thing I was struck by is how many very similar communities we have
that are these old, wooden structures, built right close together, one way in, one
way out. And in areas that have typically been wet, like Pāhoa or Honokaʻa, or
any of the little plantation camps but are now drying out and when we have these
long periods of drought, in these areas that are typically wet, there’s just a ton and
ton of fuel, right? We’ve had this conversation.
MR. TODD: Yeah.
MS. KIMBALL: And so, I’m very supportive of funding towards preventative
maintenance of fuel, making sure that we have proper training for our folks, for
wildfires as well as, you know, proper training for us. Thank you for hooking me
up with the Texas A&M folks, we’re going to bring that training in May for
everybody on the Council which I’m very excited about. But I also want to—one
of the testifiers really talked about all the different types of things, people burning
trash, cooking in their back yard, car on fire. I just can’t emphasize enough this is
an everybody issue, and we’ve got to also be spending some resources on public
education and making sure that our communities are aware that this is not just a
government only thing. This is an everybody thing.
MR. TODD: Yes.
Page 21
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
MS. KIMBALL: Whether it’s preventative for your own home or for your own
community, we’ve all got to be investing in that, not just to save the money but to
save the lives. So, want to support that effort as well and I know you guys are
trying to do more and more with the education piece with the community, so
appreciate that.
MR. TODD: Yeah, we will be sponsoring a course. NFPA (National Fire
Protection Association) will be bringing in an ignition, kind of prevention class on
structures in terms of building that 30-foot area around homes. So, we’re going to
be hosting that class and we’ll probably try to turn that into like a regular thing.
So, considering your, I guess district, it might be a good thing to have a couple
people from your area maybe involved, but we’ll be working with Hawaiʻi
Wildfire Management organization, hopefully I think in December to do another
class on that. I’ll get some information to you on it.
ACTING CHAIR LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kimball. I’m going with
Ms. Kagiwada. Go ahead.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, thank you, Chair. Just a couple things, one,
thank you and thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz, for putting this forward. I really do
like, I mean obviously, we can’t fund everything to the degree that need—I like
the attention to both, you mentioned the volunteers. One question I had is do we
have the same issue around staffing volunteer fire departments as we do with
staffing regular county agencies including yours?
MR. TODD: So, for one, the Fire Department hasn’t quite run into the same
staffing issues that I think most departments do. Part of this is that positions
within the Fire Department start at the firefighter recruit level, which has very
little base requirements. We require two college courses, a Health 125 and an
English 100, and once you’ve taken those and you’ve passed high school you can
come in, and most positions after that are just people moving through our
department. So, right now, total vacancies, I think we have maybe four or five
positions vacant as far as the operational side goes.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay.
MR. TODD: So that hasn’t been a recruitment challenge or things like that.
Now, will that change in the future? I believe so. I have tracked the numbers in
terms of total recruitments, how many people show up for the tests and
everything, and when I wanted to become a firefighter, I was competing against
800 people to get a slot.
MS. KAGIWADA: More specifically around the volunteers.
Page 22
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
MR. TODD: So, on the volunteer side, it is—we’ve seen a decrease in overall
volunteerism. There are total numbers from over the last 20 years from
approximately 300 plus volunteers to about 120 to 150 right now. It fluctuates
depending on what’s going on. Part of that is some of the systemic issues in
terms of how we supported that volunteer system. It is a very long conversation.
When we have a—I’ve had companies that have come out to Puna and put up
their tent and there’s quite a few people who seemed to be interested but at the
same time, I can’t say that we have given the same kind of support necessary to
have a functional and well-run volunteer system. So, there’s some issues in it in
terms of how it’s put together and the kind of support the County is throwing
behind the system.
Suffice to say, the numbers have been dropping over the years and right now
they’ve stabilized kind of over the last two years, but ideally, I’d like to grow both
our career side as well as our volunteer side to meet that need because when we
have that next Mana Road or Lahaina-style fire I just want more.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah, of course.
MR. TODD: I’ll take volunteers, I’ll take paid, career personnel, I don’t care. I
just feel like the more we have that we can throw at it, the more likely we walk
out the other end in a good scenario.
MS. KAGIWADA: Right.
MR. TODD: At the same time, still going to be focusing in on the other issues
that are impacting that in terms of our building codes and how we’re reducing the
opportunity for houses to start fires as well as fire wise and a variety of other
things too. But you know, I try to look at that picture from a holistic viewpoint,
it’s not just one thing that’s going to solve the problem. More firetrucks doesn’t
solve it.
MS. KAGIWADA: Sure.
MR. TODD: It’s everything.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. And as far as wildfires go, specifically, I like the kind
of pinpointed look at maybe Kohala and Kā'u because it seems like those are two
places on our island that tend to have the most wildfires started. So, what’s your
thought on really putting some resources behind those particular places if we’re
going to work on wildfires knowing that we can’t do everything?
MR. TODD: I am willing to accept any kind of money you guys want to throw in
my direction. So generally speaking, when I look at things, the three areas
Page 23
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
honestly, the areas that I’m most concerned with are Kā'u, the Pāhala/Nāālehu ʻ
area, Kohala because we get some rippers going through there. But honestly,
Ms. Kimball’s area is also of concern. It’s normally wet and there’s normally a
good amount of moisture so it’s not an issue, but when it dries out, her region has
the potential because of the eucalyptus and the sheer height of the grass that has
been allowed to grow up over there. That area does worry me because it gets the
same kind of trade winds. If we have an extended drought period, that area
actually worries me a lot.
So, our Mana Road fire technically sort of started on more in the Hāmākua side
and then transitioned over into Kohala, ripped right past Waimea, and then went
down into Kohala. So generally, hers would be the third area that I’m most
concerned with. But the problem is that we keep maintaining these houses that
are built on single-wall, redwood, you know, oak floors. They’re beautiful and
they’re wonderful and I love them, and I own one, but they’re not exactly
fireproof. So, it’s sort of just how we look at real estate and how we look at
housing in America that contributes to our own fire problem.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you so much, and thank you once again, Council
Member Kierkiewicz and working with the department and yeah, I’m sure we’ll
get into a lot more of these discussions as we move forward with budget. Thank
you, I yield.
ACTING CHAIR LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kagiwada. Ms. Galimba.
MS. GALIMBA: Thank you, and thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz, for
bringing this forward. Yeah, I have to say I’m definitely going to support it.
Took a tour of our Pāhala Fire Station and it’s definitely, the adjective deplorable
is pretty accurate. The roof has been rusting for many, many years, and literally,
when they said when the wind blows hard the roof tiles lift up. So, that’s not a
good state for a Fire Department, for a Fire Station to be at risk of basically
blowing away during a time when they would probably be out fighting a fire.
So, we definitely need to get that taken care of, and that’s going to take more
resources, and not just at the Fire Department but throughout the County because
you guys have to work with the other departments to get the things that you need
like buildings and water and all of that kind of things.
MR. TODD: Yeah, you know, while we’re on that subject, I think one of the best
ways to support the department, the Fire Department, is also to support DPW.
They need basically that Project Management positions. They’ve got one out of I
think five and whether we’ve got to amend the job description and pay more so
it’s a more attractive job or you have to get creative on how we recruit or retain,
something needs to be done. You know, they need assistance to help them be
able to assist others. So, definitely one of the things I do want to throw out there
is helping DPW who helps the Fire Department in getting our projects completed
Page 24
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
and you know, our electrical stuff hooked up or whatever else because we’re
firemen, we’re great at putting water on this red, moving, hot stuff, but maybe not
so great at like, you know, drawing up a super complicated project management
document. So, definitely want to advocate for helping us help them to help us.
MS. GALIMBA: Right. Yes, I’m—I talked to Julann Sonomura, and she said
she was personally working on the roof project, so hopefully it’ll get out to bid
here soon. I did get some feedback from folks in my district, specifically in
Discovery Harbor, that I think have a pretty strong volunteer firefighter group.
They were wanting to be reassured that the intent of this is to support the
volunteer firefighters and provide both necessary support, which I know they have
not been getting the kind of equipment and vehicles that would be optimal for
them to participate, as well as, and I think you indicate this and Council Member
Kierkiewicz indicate this in the resolution that safety—that thinking about the
safety of the volunteer firefighters is also a really important issue right now.
So, in discussion with Council Member Kierkiewicz, we were going to work
together offline to make some language changes to clarify that we do definitely
support the firefighters, especially in my district which is so huge that we
definitely need them to be there closer to the outbreak of the fires and can be a
great help in terms of getting there and making sure that people are safe so the
career firefighters can come in and do what they do as well. So, just wanted to let
you know that Council Member Kierkiewicz and I will be making some language
changes and of course, in conjunction with you.
MR. TODD: Sounds good.
MS. GALIMBA: I yield.
ACTING CHAIR LEE LOY: Thanks, Ms. Galimba.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, if I could just (inaudible) Ms. Galimba—
ACTING CHAIR LEE LOY: Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: You know, for members of the viewing public, there’s a
whole exhibit, Exhibit D, related to strengthening the Volunteer Fire program.
This resolution does not talk about ending this program, but the fact of the matter
is, a volunteer was hurt in a recent fire and is now suing the County. We must
review risks and liabilities to make sure that if volunteers are meant to support
dedicated, career, personnel, that they do not become a liability in these moments
of crisis and in an emergency. We have to do a fair assessment to see the most
appropriate role volunteers are going to play. Simple matter.
Page 25
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
Again, not trying to get rid of the program, but I just want to make sure we’re
going into a lot of executive sessions recently about instances where the County
could have done a better job to manage risk and liability, and that’s what we need
to do here. And at the end of the day, we have these men and women of the Fire
Department, sleeping in fire stations, they’re home away from home, that I don’t
think a lot of us want to stay in. They’re not the best conditions, so we’ve got to
make sure these folks that are showing up day in, day out, pulling those 24s,
sometimes a 36, that they have everything that they need to be safe and secure.
I’ll be working with Council Member Galimba on that edit to the resolution, but I
just want folks to know the intention behind this assessment. Thank you.
MR. TODD: So, if it doesn’t bother you guys, I do want to clarify that the
County Council, Mayor, back in the day, combined our volunteer stations on the
island with our paid department and created a combination department legally.
So, we’re one department with volunteer forces and career personnel that are paid
professionals in what they do.
If at any point we wanted to not have volunteers, we would need to go back into
the Code and actually re-separate that process, but there’s different models
throughout the United States and how fire is tackled from entirely volunteer
systems to entirely career paid personnel that are professionals in what they do to
combination. I think the Big Island just has a little bit too much land for us to
really fund the kind of response that we need without the volunteers. Maybe
some day when we have hundreds of hundreds of extra thousands of people living
on the island and lots of tax revenue, that could be re-examined and generally,
that’s kind of how departments are started, right? We start on a volunteer basis.
In 1888, we were a volunteer department and around 1920 we started actually
starting to pay some of our personnel. And where it makes economic sense
eventually it usually just becomes an entirely paid department so that you get that
professional training and that level of service that you’re looking for 100 percent
of the time. But that transition takes place over decades and decades of time as
the tax basis allows us to do so. Currently, we are a combination department and
here to serve.
ACTING CHAIR LEE LOY: Thanks, Fire 1. Anything else, Ms. Kierkiewicz?
With that, I’m lending my support to this resolution also, and I will admit I kind
of went off on a tangent just because it’s so much conversation. But getting back
to the resolution and thank you for reminding me, Fire 1, about this relationship
we have with the volunteers, because we’re a big island and that was the only way
that we could actually manage and provide coverage with these volunteer stations.
I’m always reminded about my house in Mountain View. I couldn’t get insurance
because it wasn’t close enough to a fire station, but the volunteer fire station
started to serve the gaps so that we could get insurance way back then.
Page 26
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
I would offer a suggestion to the maker. We list, within the resolution, a number
of people to get the information, and I was just wondering if we would want to,
just for the maker, to reflect on our Friends of First Responders does an incredible
job at securing funding for our firefighters and police officers and do a lot of peer
support work. So, in addition to building up the muscle of our volunteers, they
might also be able to access funds that can help the volunteers also along with, of
course, the amazing Sayre Foundation. They were instrumental in that Mana fire
with the brush trucks that was dedicated. Maybe through this process,
Ms. Kierkiewicz and Fire 1, one thing we identified with the Mana fire was with
DHHL (Department of Hawaiian Home Lands), they had water stand tanks but
the valve was a different size.
MR. TODD: So the valves are the same. The problem lies in that there’s no
positive pressure on the side of the tanks. So, our trucks came from island wide.
Some of them are primary response vehicles that were built in the 1950s. Their
ability to get prime and suck water out of a tank that’s lower than the tank that
they’re trying to suck water into isn’t always possible. So, for some of the units
that we had out there they just were not able to draw water off of that. Some of it
too just when you start bringing them and they’re two hours away, they haven’t
learned the local area, they don’t know where to find the water and so we’re
working—and some of this has been—some of the funding that has come through
has allowed us to get mobile data terminals. So, we’re trying to get computers in
every vehicle and then GIS layers and things like that would allow us to have
whoever is driving be able to look over and just look for the nearest water source,
look for the, you know, where our instant command post is or things like that. So,
we’re working to bring technology in there to address some of those issues and
solve it in other ways as well.
ACTING CHAIR LEE LOY: Yeah, thank you for that, Fire 1. All of that, back
to the risk assessment and analysis for our volunteers, because they’re activated
just like our department firefighters. Those were my suggestions to reflect on.
With that, seeing no more discussion, we have a motion on the floor to forward
Resolution 333-23 to the Council with a favorable recommendation. All those in
favor please say “aye.”
Vote on Res. 333-23: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 333-23 was
(Approved) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kāneali‘i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Kimball, and Acting Chair Lee Loy – 6.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Evans, Inaba,
and Villegas – 3.
Excused: None.
Page 27
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
ACTING CHAIR LEE LOY: Thanks, Fire 1. Last item we have is
Resolution 329-23.
Res. 329-23: AUTHORIZES THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO ANNUAL FLOOD-
MONITORING AGREEMENTS WITH THE UNITED STATES GEOLOGICAL
SURVEY
Authorizes the Mayor to enter into five-year agreements to fund a Flood-
Monitoring Program to collect long-term data related to annual peak streamflow,
which would be used to map flood-prone areas for land use management and for
the planning and design of flood management systems.
Reference: Comm. 558
Intr. by: Ms. Evans (B/R)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kimball moved to recommend adoption of Res. 329-23.
Seconded by Ms. Galimba.
ACTING CHAIR LEE LOY: Council Members, any discussion? We have
Corporation Counsel here. Mr. Steve Pause, I’m sorry, Malia Kekai, Acting—any
members have questions? Mr. Kānealiʻi-Kleinfelder.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: I just have one comment. Steve, are you
going to come up or—? I’ll try to keep it brief, Malia. Is this island wide? Island
wide for stream monitoring any bridges? And then introduce yourself for the
record, please.
(Note: At this time Public Works Deputy Chief for Engineering Melanie
DeMello came forward to address the members of the Committee.)
MS. DEMELLO: Melanie DeMello, Deputy Chief for Engineering Division.
There are island wide stream gauges to answer your question. I believe USGS
(United States Geological Survey), depending on funding availabilities, they
select certain ones each year. So, I think in the agreement it lists eight or so
gauges that they’re doing for this particular year, but they do have island wide
gauges.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: Okay. The reason I’m asking is that Puna
floods a lot, but we don’t really have streams and that’s been a constant issue that
I’ve dealt with. No stream, nothing to monitor, but we have such an amount of
rainfall, when our gullies and our dry beds fill up, they flood from the mountain to
the ocean. So, I’ve been trying to figure out how to get this incorporated and
make sure that we’re monitoring that so we can start to legislate in the correct
ways we deal with perpetually growing communities, but without an actual stream
to monitor, it becomes difficult.
Page 28
GOEAC-20 October 31, 2023
So, I’m just putting that in your brain to think on because the folks in the
community are constantly dealing with it, whether it’s roads degrading or being
completely under water on properties that are in flood zones. We have a Puna
flood study that was a draft. I’ve got the maps in my office but there’s no actual
stream to measure. So, it’s like having a flood with no river, except how do we
monitor? So, I’m just putting it in your ear and I’m trying to make headway on
that. So, I’m hopeful that in some way, we can figure out how to help the people
in Puna, from Glenwood to Paradise Park, to deal with flooding. That’s helpful.
Do you have any thoughts on that?
MS. DEMELLO: Yeah, understood. And yeah, we can confirm the whole
breadth of the island wide with the data that we do have, but yeah, I understand
what you’re saying.
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: Awesome. Thank you. Nice costume.
Malia, I love that costume.
ACTING CHAIR LEE LOY: All done, Mr. Kānealiʻi-Kleinfelder?
MR. KĀNEALIʻI-KLEINFELDER: I yield, thank you.
ACTING CHAIR LEE LOY: Okay, great. Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I just wanted to echo those sentiments. I think
year over year we get this agreement for review of flooding potential in different
communities around the island, and communities that we know flood, like Puna,
are not often monitored. So, just wondering if there are ways to address that in
future studies or if there is an additional study that needs to be done. I bring this
up now, especially as we are in the midst of the County in updating our General
Plan and what’s needed, infrastructure wise, to support future development and
manage risks and liabilities related to things like flooding.
So, just putting it out there, don’t need a response. Maybe at Council we can have
a deeper conversation around the scope and breadth of this monitoring project and
what more can be done to support other communities like Puna that would like to
have some sort of assessment but beyond that, an action plan and
recommendations for what we can do. Thank you, I yield.
ACTING CHAIR LEE LOY: Thank you, Ms. Kierkiewicz. Anyone else?
Alright, seeing none, we have a motion to forward Resolution 329-23 to Council
with a favorable recommendation. All those in favor please say “aye.”
Page 29
GOEAC-20 October 31,2023
Vote on Res. 329-23: The motion to recommend adoption of Res. 329-23 was
(Approved) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Kimball, and Acting Chair Lee Loy—6.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Evans, Inaba,
and Villegas—3.
Excused: None.
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 1:28 p.m., Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to
MENT: adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and carried by
the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Galimba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz,
Kimball, and Acting Chair Lee Loy—6.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Members Evans, Inaba,
and Villegas—3.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHAIR LEE LOY: The time now is 1:28 p.m.,this meeting is
adjourned.
Approved:
C.qrr`02-3
Ms. Cindy Evans, Chair (Date)
Committee on Governmental Operations
and External Affairs
CE/jm
Page 30