HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN COUNCIL 2023-11-15 2022-2024 Hawaii County Council
261h Session
West Hawaii Civic Center
74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A
Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
November 15, 2023
INVOCATION: Senior Pastor Sunny Ahn of Kona United Methodist Church gave the morning's
invocation.
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Hawaii County Council was called to order at
ORDER: 9:00 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Heather L. Kimball,
Chair.
Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the
of Business: following item was taken out of order:
PLEDGE OF The Chair directed the Council to the next order of business, Pledge of
ALLEGIANCE: Allegiance.
(At this time, County Clerk Jon Henricks led the Council in
the Pledge of Allegiance.)
Return to Order The Chair directed the Council to return to the order of business.
of Business:
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Chair
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Vice Chair
Ms. Cindy Evans, Member
Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member
Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member (came in later)
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member
Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member
Absent& Excused: Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member
PETITIONS, The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, Petitions,
MEMORIALS, Memorials, Certificates of Merit, and Expressions of Condolence.
CERTIFICATES
OF MERIT, AND (Note: At this time, Mr. Inaba presented the November 2023 Haweo Award to
EXPRESSIONS OF Fire Medical Specialist H Gavin DeMello of the Hawaii Fire Department.)
CONDOLENCE:
Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Recess: At 9:11 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 9:13 a.m.
(Note: At this time and on behalf of the Council, Chair Kimball offered
condolences to the family of Captain Steve Grasso, from the Waiki`i
Volunteer Fire Station, who recently passed away.)
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by
the Chair:
Thomas Brennon: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), in support.
Timothy Rowan: Res. 357-23 (Comm. 591), in support.
(representing Malama O Puna)
Greg Owen: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), in support.
Jon Olson: Res. 333-23 (Comm. 565), in support.
Susie Osborne: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), in support.
Eileen O'Hara: Res. 357-23 (Comm. 591), in support.
(representing Malama O Puna)
Janice Palma-Glennie: Bill 83 (Comm. 498), comment.
Claudia Rohr: Comm. 323.2, comment.
Keone Kalawe: Res. 330-23 (Comm. 559), in support.
APPROVAL The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, Approval
OF MINUTES: of Minutes.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Vote on Approval Mr. Inaba moved to approve the Minutes of October 18,
of Minutes: 2023. Seconded by Ms. Villegas and carried by the
(Approved) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
Comm. 323.2: REPORT OF ATTENDANCE OF COUNCIL MEMBERS EVANS, INABA,
KIMBALL, AND VILLEGAS AT THE 2023 WEST HAWAII DISABILITY
COUNTY COUNCIL LEGISLATIVE FORUM HELD AT THE MAKA`EO
PAVILION ON OCTOBER 19, 2023, PURSUANT TO HAWAII REVISED
STATUTES SECTION 92-2.5(e)
From Council Member Holeka Goro Inaba, dated October 27, 2023.
Motion to Close Mr. Inaba moved to close file on Comm. 323.2. Seconded
File: by Ms. Villegas.
CHR. KIMBALL: Vice Chair Inaba.
MR. INABA: As explained, when the Clerk read it in, Council
Members Villegas, Kimball, Evans, and myself participated in this forum at
Maka`eo discussing transportation accessibility, shortage of housing specifically
to those with disabilities. So just reporting our attendance and that that discussion
did occur. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Vice Chair Inaba. Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Just to clarify anything with the testifier, this communication is
the only communication that would be in existence. It's generated by anytime
more than two Council Members attend a public forum or anything having to do
with an issue that may end up in front of us here in Council. So I just wanted to
acknowledge the concerns expressed by the testifier, but clarify why she wasn't
able to find another communication. Our attendance to this forum was not related
to a prior Council agenda item or communication. This is the communication
expressing and making sure with full disclosure and transparency that everyone
knows whenever there are more than two of us in one place. With that I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. Anyone else? Council
Member Evans.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I just want to make it a record what a great event it
was. And the four members that attended, which were Villegas, Evans, Kimball,
and Inaba, we were invited to sit on a panel. There were also State-elected
officials and they had great questions. It was informative. They asked us
questions and it was very nice. So I'm glad we were invited, and they will, I
believe, do this annually. So thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Anyone else? I'll just
take a moment to also add in response to the testifier's comments. Our meetings
are closed captioned on the Granicus site, which you can access through the
County Council website. We do not do the closed caption on Zoom because it is
not as reliable as the closed captioning that we have through the Granicus site. So
I encourage anyone who has hearing issues to utilize that location to watch the
video recording for the closed captioning service. With that, we will proceed to
the vote on closing file on Communication 323.2. Any further discussion? All
those in favor, please say "aye."
Vote on The motion to close file on Comm. 323.2 was carried by
Comm. 323.2: the following voice vote:
Filed
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
ORDER OF The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business, Order of
RESOLUTIONS: Resolutions.
Res. 317-23: APPROVES THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A SISTER CITY RELATIONSHIP
BETWEEN THE COUNTY OF HAWAII AND HATSUKAICHI, HIROSHIMA
PREFECTURE, JAPAN, AND AUTHORIZES THE MAYOR OF THE COUNTY
OF HAWAII TO ENTER INTO A FORMAL SIGNED AGREEMENT
Authorizes the Mayor to formally establish this sister-city relationship, pursuant to
Section 2-165 of the Hawaii County Code.
Reference: Comm. 542
Intr. by: Ms. Kimball and Mr. Inaba
Approve: GOEAC-80
Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to adopt Res. 317-23 and Governmental
Operations and External Affairs Committee Report No. 80.
Seconded by Ms. Villegas.
CHR. KIMBALL: Vice Chair Inaba.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MR. INABA: Thank you. Council Members Evans, Villegas, and myself were
absent at the last hearing of this resolution, but we were in Japan, in Tokyo, and
got the opportunity to meet with some of our sister-city relationships in Japan,
some who were nearby in Tokyo and some who flew some hours to be there. Ask
for your continued support, especially with the historical ties that most Hawaii
Japanese have to Hiroshima. The more we're able to bridge these connections,
especially with our Youth Commission that was recently established, I think the
better we are preparing our youth to have global minds to be well connected, not
just within Hawaii but across the globe. So I ask for everyone's support.
Mahalo.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: I'm honored and grateful to be able to cast my vote in support
of this resolution. The trip to Japan was my first time going to Japan, and wow!
It was educational and life-changing in many ways. When my husband and I,
having been born and raised here in Hawaii and being fifth generation, being
very familiar with the Hawaiian connection with the Japanese culture and having
so many classmates and friends of lineal descent from Japan, it connected a lot of
things for me. And the richness of the culture and the heritage, the respect, the
honor, and the value.
So I came back humbled and deeply grateful for all the relationships that have
been nurtured over the years, and excited to continue and just have this
opportunity in this role to support the perpetuation of those relationships and
those ties that bind as we move into a world so fast, so fleeting, and too often
disconnected from cultural heritage and legacy. I see priceless value in
supporting the perpetuation of these relationships. And so, yeah, humbly support
this today.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. Anyone else? Council
Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: I guess I(inaudible) one of the trio that went. I come fromI
never understood sister city. I never quite got it; what does it mean sister-city
relationship? So this really opened up my eyes of what it means, that when you
have a mayor and a county council and a city who's decided that they want to
have this ongoing agreement. And it goes to their students from their schools
come over here, and I don't know how long they come, but we have students that
go over there. So they have the student exchange.
They have these events in their hometown that acknowledges the aloha of
Hawaii, and they perpetuate hula and our music and the sharing of that. And
they love to bring it to their city and to share that with their citizens, and vice
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
versa. They can bring their culture to us and participate; if anyone hasn't been to
the Cherry Blossom Festival. In Waimea in February, you understand that
bringing the culture and perpetuating this conversation between us.
It was pretty impressive actually. I was very surprised how much effort the
mayors and the council had in trying to really keep upfront in their own
community what Hawaii is about and what our culture is about. So I can really
see the benefit. Like I said, I never really understood it, but now I think I get it.
It's really nice. And I know that we have sister city with the Philippines and
some other countries. It would be interesting to see as we explore more sister-city
relationships. Thank you. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Council Member
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. I'm excited to see
another sister-city relationship, especially with Japan. Having been to many of
our sister cities in Japan without other County folks, it's amazing, the hospitality
that's provided and also the learning experience when you're not just visiting, but
you're visiting and you're being encompassed into the culture by folks there.
Totally different experience and absolutely amazing.
I need to point out: In high school, required reading was a book,Hiroshima. And
having visited a shrine in my previous visit—this would have been about five, ten
years agoI remember visiting a shrine near Shinagawa or Tokyo. And the
shrine was dedicated to holding a flame from the town of Hiroshima, and it was to
represent everything that had been lost in that moment; and to hold that flame so
people could identify that this had happened.
This was a great wrong, to me, that was done in the world at that time for
whatever reasons. And you walk into that temple and it's extremely sad. It
doesn't carry a light of positivity. But the note that is written is to remember that
moment and to remember that flame, that that signifies for us how to get better
and how to lead a more positive existence and not go back to being that way
again. And so to see us joining into a sister-city relationship with the town in
Hiroshima means that we are moving in that direction.
So I say that for the Council that this is exciting to see this relationship bonded
between Hawaii and this particular city, Hatsukaichi. But more so, it begins to
undo the wrongs of the past and that's beautiful.
On a lighter note, it's just always exciting to see us move in this direction. And
really excited to hear the stories that came back from our Council Members who
went to visit, and I look forward to visiting in the future. And just good to see this
happening within our two counties.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
When I go, it's always interesting. When you say you're from the U. S. (United
States), they look at you like, "Oh." But if you say, "I'm from Hawai`i,"they go,
"Ohhh" and then they want to talk to you. It's a totally different experience. If I
say, "Hey, I'm from California,"they go "Mm, gaijin." But if you say, "I'm from
Hawai`i,"totally different response from the folks. That just signifies how
incredible the bond is between Hawaii specifically, Hawaii and Japan. So,
totally support the resolution. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Anyone else? We do have our
sister-city protocol officer here, Jane Clement. Did you want to say anything in
addition on this resolution before we proceed to the vote?
(Note: At this time, Executive Assistant to the Mayor Jane Clement came
forward to address the members of the Council.)
MS. CLEMENT: Good morning, Council Chair and Council Members. Thank
you for having me. I just want to say thank you for your support of this sister-city
relationship, or the establishment of this sister-city relationship. And, Council
Member Evans, thank you for acknowledging the importance of a sister-city
program. And, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, I feel you. Every time we
go to Japan—I've been to Japan a couple times now—every time we go, the
reception that we get is absolutely amazing.
They love Hawaii. They practice our culture over there. Our sister cities have
hula festivals. They wear aloha shirts to work. There are 2 million hula dancers
in Japan; that's more people than we have here in the entire State of Hawaii. So
that's how much they love our culture. They do want to come here, and they do
want to promote our culture, and vice versa. We promote their culture over here
as well.
And just kind of want to remind everybody that the premise of a sister-city
program, this really started immediately after World War II, and it's to promote
peace to prevent another world war. And with everything that's going on in the
world right now, it's never more important to foster these relationships, deepen
these relationships. So thank you for your support.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you so much. Anyone else? All right, with that we'll
proceed to the vote. All those in favor,please say "aye."
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Vote on Res. 317-23: The motion to adopt Res. 317-23 and Governmental
(Adopted) Operations and External Affairs Committee Report No. 80
was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the
of Business: following items were taken out of order:
Res. 330-23: STRONGLY URGES PROTECTION OF IWI KUPUNA AT KUMUKAHI AND
COLLECTIVE ACTION TO PRESERVE AND MANAGE CULTURAL AND
NATURAL RESOURCES OF KUMUKAHI
Seeks to preserve and protect this site by limiting exposure to burial sites and
cultural features.
Reference: Comm. 559
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz
Approve: GOEAC-82
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to adopt Res. 330-23 and
Governmental Operations and External Affairs Committee
Report No. 82. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. First, I want to just thank `Anakala
Keone for coming all the way from Kumukahi to be here and to show support.
He is one of two lineal descendants along with `Anakala Keiki and other
community members that I worked with to craft this resolution. So thank you so
much for your diligence and your collaboration.
What does this resolution mean? We pass resolutions all the time as a Council,
and they are a symbolic gesture. But I think, in this particular case, it is a promise
that the County is still focused on helping the community recover five years after
the eruption. And it is a commitment by County, community, and, most
importantly, lineal descendants as well as agencies from the State DLNR
(Department of Land and Natural Resources) and OHA (Office of Hawaiian
Affairs) to come together and to do the right thing in terms of natural resource and
cultural resource preservation.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
I am so sorry that iwi kupuna still need to be reinterned. And when I see some of
the behaviors that are happening in that area, in an area that is so sacred and so
special. Kumukahi is the first place in all of Hawaii where the sun greets the
islands. It is a wahi pana. It is a pu`uhonua. It is a place of learning and where
we seek refuge and well-being. And so, to just see the desecration that is
happening really breaks one's heart and soul. And this resolution is designed to
elevate the work that has been happening over the last few years for the County.
We really don't have any land interest in the area,but I think what we're doing
with the recovery process is finding a way to address long-standing challenges
like this so that we can move forward as one community that is healed.
And so after the introduction of this resolution at Committee, OHA reached out,
and we were able to talk story about ways in which they can support our
community in its healing process, and be part of helping to support community
and empower community in their effort to take care of this `aina.
I've also been able to talk to our Hawaii Island board member on the Board of
Land and Land Natural Resources, Riley Smith. He's all in, too, and will
continue to show support through Administrator Chang at DLNR for our
community. So just looking for everyone's support. The conversations are
happening but I think this is a real important token for community to see that
Puna hasn't been forgotten, that despite everything that's happening in our
community, across the State, around the world, that we still have plenty heart and
aloha for Puna, and we are working hard to solve these challenges. Thank you,
Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Council Member
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Kalawe, I think I've
spoken to you in the past. It's good to see you here. I'm guessing you drove from
Puna today to be here in Kona to represent for this resolution because that is how
important this is to you. Okay. Thank you for saying that. Thank you for making
that drive.
I'll be supporting this resolution today. And what I take away from this
resolution is there have been wrongs in the past that need to be addressed. The
most important thing to me here is that we're calling out the Planning
Department. Because when we start looking at zoning and we start discussing
land use and we look at the way we're going to address the community's
concerns, that department needs to hear what the community wants when we start
guiding legislation. And so lean on this in the future. Reference this resolution in
the future when we see things that are incorrect and hold us accountable, okay.
Thank you. I yield, Chair.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Is there anyone from the Planning Department here or online?
What I'm seeing is that the County Planning Department is kind of the convener,
the way you've written the resolution, and I just want to make sure the County
Planning Department has the resources that they need to make sure this continues.
We're going to be entering soon into talking with the Mayor and his leadership
team on the next budget cycle, and I see what you're doing here is so critical to
these amazing, important areas that we have on our island. For example, I was
thinking Waipi`o Valley and how that community really has been working
together. This is really important that we work on this, and I think we've got to
make sure that we have the resources. And it looks like the Planning Department
is the lead. I'm welcome to hear your comments on that since we don't have the
Planning Department.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, can I respond to Council Member Evans?
CHR. KIMBALL: Go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. You're absolutely right. Planning Department
serves as a convener bringing community, State partners, various landowners
together to have the conversations we started in COVID (coronavirus disease).
We started in COVID. So these conversations have been happening for three
years now.
You talk about resources. Really, Planning is providing the thought leadership
and bringing stakeholders together. Resources are going to come from
geothermal royalties. The County gets a share. OHA gets a share. DLNR gets a
share. Right now, our County is the only one that has rules prescribed for how we
use those monies to benefit community. There's a community benefits package.
There's also a relocation program. There is no program that guides how OHA or
DLNR use those monies to benefit the community that is impacted by geothermal.
So there are resources out there. It's just a matter of getting everybody together
and identifying what can we all contribute. It's not putting all of the kuleana on
the back of one individual or organization. It's making sure that we share the
load, and we're leaning into our areas of expertise. And at the end of the day,
we're empowering lineal descendants. We're empowering community in-profits
like H6`ola Lahui to continue to do this work because we cycle in and out of these
chairs. There are leadership changes all the time. Who's left? Community. So
we want to make sure the framework, the resources are in place. I think they are.
This resolution continues to press the urgency for everyone to get together and
collaborate on this. I hope that's helpful. I texted someone in Recovery to see if
they're able to chime in. Recovery is under the Planning Department.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MS. EVANS: Got it. Okay. I just think it's important and I do hopeI
remember this, but I think, during the budget cycle, we need to really bring up this
discussion about the Planning Department making sure whatever division and
resources there are to lead these types of efforts, that we support that. But thank
you. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Any further discussion?
Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Just in full support of this. Thank you so
much for putting it forward. I think the plan to really work with State
organizations makes a lot of sense. Obviously, we can't fully fund everything,
and if there is money that is being extracted from the community, it seems like it
should go back into the community. So I'm fully supportive of looking at that.
What has been the State involvement so far? Have they been—may I ask, have
they been attending the meetings already?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair?
CHR. KIMBALL: Briefly, you may respond.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Yes, they have been attending. I think that there's an
opportunity to step up and do a little bit more, but again, they need to assess what
their internal capacity is and where's their best position to support the effort.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Well, I'm fully supportive and I'll look forward to
seeing how this unfolds, because I think a process like this could be used in other
places potentially. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Returning to Council
Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair,just a little latitude. I see one of my constituents,
Diga Kern, who lives in the Koae area and has been a partner in putting this
resolution together. Just want to give him a very brief opportunity to maybe just
speak to some of the issues that the community faces as relates to this resolution.
Diga, you want to share for a couple of minutes?
(Note: At this time, Diga Kern, a member of the public, came forward to
provide testimony.)
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair, for the latitude.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Anyone else?
Council Member Inaba.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MR. INABA: Just very quickly. Do want to extend my support and my mahalo
to you, Council Member Kierkiewicz, for bringing this forward. My own `ohana
comes from Puna. So we all have our wahi, our place, and thank you to those
who drove from very far away today to be here to represent not just your
community but your kupuna as well. Mahalo.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Vice Chair Inaba. Anyone else? Council
Member Kierkiewicz, did we get a reply from Planning? I'm willing to entertain
tabling this if we think it's critical to have their input or just proceed.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I think if there are follow-up questions, Council
Member Evans is welcome to engage Planning Director, but he's in a Land Use
Commission meeting. And so I don't know how long that's going to take. I hope
my answer was satisfactory. Thank you.
MS. EVANS: Thank you, Chair, for asking. I can talk to him about it. I'll put it
on my list.
CHR. KIMBALL: Great.
MS. EVANS: My list is growing. Yes, thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: All right. Very good. We will go ahead with the vote then.
All those in favor of adopting Resolution 330-23,please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 330-23: The motion to adopt Res. 330-23 and Governmental
(Adopted) Operations and External Affairs Committee Report No. 82
was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Res. 333-23: STRONGLY URGES THE OFFICE OF THE MAYOR TO INCREASE
CAPACITY AND FUNDING FOR THE HAWAII FIRE DEPARTMENT TO
PROACTIVELY MITIGATE THE POTENTIAL IMPACTS OF WILDFIRES
Reference: Comm. 565
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz
Approve: GOEAC-83
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
(Note: Comm. 565.5, from Council Member Ashley L. Kierkiewicz dated
November 15, 2023, transmitting proposed amendments to Res. 333-23, was
circulated.)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to adopt Res. 333-23 and
Governmental Operations and External Affairs Committee
Report No. 83. Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz, have you caught your breath?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Thank you for that, Chair. A few of my
colleagues weren't here at the last Committee hearing where we initially
introduced this measure, but Maui has been on our minds and our preparedness as
a community. And we've experienced a number of fires in recent years;just this
week, Pohakuloa. And so it's thinking about how we make sure our communities
are prepared, but that we are supporting our frontline responders, our firefighters,
who answer the call of duty day in and day out, more frequently really in recent
years and much more frequently in the years to come. Making sure that they have
everything that they need to respond effectively and safely. So it's making sure
that we're supporting our career personnel.
There's also discussion about the role that our volunteer firefighter program plays.
I think that there's a lot that folks can do in that capacity to support community
outreach prevention. But if they're going to be answering to calls to suppress
fires, making sure that they are equipped so that they don't inadvertently become
liabilities in that process. That being said, before we kind of talk globally about
the resolution, I did want to introduce an amendment to the resolution. Chair, if I
might?
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to amend Res. 333-23 with the
contents of Comm. 565.5. Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Go ahead on the amendment, Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. This is in response to some community
members who called a little concerned: "Are you trying to get rid of the volunteer
program?" No. I'm not. But we really need to do a strategic assessment about
what the most appropriate role is. There was a very recent situation where a
volunteer did get hurt, and now the County is having to face a lawsuit because of
that. And so, in order to make sure that we are mitigating risks and liabilities, we
just have to make sure what the appropriate goal is for our volunteers. And if it's
something that we're going to commit to, we cannot commit to things halfway.
Whatever we do, we have to do it a hundred percent, and we have to make sure
that there are plans in place.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
And so this amendment was done in partnership with Council Member Galimba's
office. She has a number of volunteer stations in her community, but it just
elevates the fact that there are roles that our volunteers can play. I think, really,
one of the most helpful things they can do is to be out there advocating for fire
risk education and community preparedness. The more that we can do on the
prevention side, the better prepared we are going to be in the event of a fire. So,
happy to answer any questions folks might have. I also have Fire Two here to
speak to the merits of this resolution, this amendment, and answer questions my
colleagues might have. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Okay, so on the
amendment, Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: In strong support of the amendment. I like that you've rewritten
this `BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED," and added a little more specifics to it. I
think that'll be really important. This particular`BE IT RESOLVED" is about a
strategic assessment of the volunteer firefighter program. And the language
change is talking more about the details and I think having areally important,
given that we'll be entering into our budget cycle here in the near future. So I like
this language and thank you. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Anyone else on the
amendment? Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. I didn't get a copy of the
amendment but I read it. Rebecca was nice enough to give me her copy. Yeah, I
did receive some concerned phone calls, and I have family members within the
volunteer fire department as well. But the concerns that they raised were good.
What I found in government is that when we ask for an assessment or we look for
information, it's usually because we have a decision that we are pondering.
That's pretty straightforward, that's logical. But it also raises the question for the
community on why are we doing an assessment of the volunteer fire department,
specifically their effectiveness and sustainability, with a subsequent
recommendation regarding their feasibility and future? Because that does that's
the original wording that does basically say, "We're looking at you because
either we're going to keep you or not."
I know what the volunteer fire department does, and I did hear about the incident
that occurred. Regardless, the folks that volunteer are a tremendous asset for our
community. And without them, we would be in trouble a lot of the time. We
have a fairly large department. We have a huge island. We have a lot of
obstacles in keeping our community safe. But I'm glad to see that an amendment
was brought forward, but there were some serious questions raised that I think
were well based, and ensuring that we're not trying to get rid of the volunteer fire
department. That's important. So I'm glad we're recognizing that today.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
But also that we recognize what training they already do. Because, from what
I've understood, their training is very extensive so that they are not a liability. It's
good that we're seeing this evolve, but I mean, the community was well based in
their response to this resolution. So, to the maker, does the intent of your
amendment further the idea that we're not looking to disband the volunteers?
How is the intent different in the amendment versus the original writing?
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, if I may respond?
CHR. KIMBALL: Briefly, you may respond.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I wanted to make very abundantly clear at
Committee, and I'm doing so again today, the intent is to not get rid of the
volunteer fire program. I've spoken to the captains and the chief that runs this
program. They want an assessment. They helped craft this resolution. They
helped to develop the exhibit regarding volunteer fire program and what is needed
to actually carry this out. So an assessment is something the department is asking
for. There may be positions where we actually need to have career stations
because there are more fires happening. And so I want to make sure the
department is supported in their efforts to make that evaluation as to what is best
to ensure all of our communities are safe. And if we're going to commit to
having a volunteer program, making sure that it is outfitted so that folks are
equipped to do their job and complement our career personnel. Thank you, Chair.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for that, Chair. We have our I
forgot your title, sir, but I do know you. I'm always careful to say the titles
correctly because there's so many different levels of leadership within the
departments, both Fire and Police.
(Note: At this time, Deputy Fire Chief Eric Moller came forward to
address the members of the Council.)
MR. MOLLER: So it's Deputy Fire Chief. Basically, while Chief's out and
about, I kind of cover for him while he's gone and offer him support and
perspective from a different side. So we work very well together.
I want to start by saying, from the Fire Department's standpoint, there is no year,
or even the next 10 to 15 years, that we see that we wouldn't have volunteers.
The reason is because they're integral for what we do. It is a huge island. We
don't have enough personnel on the island. For the stations that we have right
now, we're not staffed to the industry standard. And we're talking there's a gap
that has to be filled. And the volunteers have been filling that gap for many years.
Many people probably don't know this, but the original Fire Department on the
island here was the volunteer department in Hilo. That's how the Fire
Department started for us. So there's a strong tradition in where we were.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
About 10, 15 years ago, the volunteers were brought under the umbrella of the
career side of the Fire Department. It was kind of a slow walk on how the two
came together and how we funded it and where we were. The lack that we have
on the career side as far as training and as far as adequate and appropriate stations,
the focus has always been basically on the career side and maintaining in trying to
get the career side to where that really needs to be. And this is 10, 15 years ago,
the population base, it's grown substantially, and we're still dealing with those
staffing numbers from 15 years ago.
There's been a lot of work in trying to make sure that the career firefighters that
we have have the proper equipment, have the proper stations, and they're in areas
that are appropriate for response in delivering services to the community. What's
happened is the volunteers have come in, and there hasn't been a lot of focus and
effort in maintaining and understanding exactly what that need is. That's what
this request for the evaluation is about, is to truly identify what we're lacking in.
So the career side right now is going through a risk assessment with a Standards
of Cover through the contractor called AP Triton. They're going to be identifying
a lot of things that, you know, the gaps that we have on the career side. What we
want to do is make sure that we're spending the right amount of time in
identifying the need on the volunteer side, correctly articulating what the mission
is of the volunteers, and how do we properly equip them and, most importantly,
how do we properly train them.
We have two captains that do an amazing job in getting the training out, but
there's different focuses of response depending on where we are on the island.
West side, for instance, focuses a lot more on wildland response. In the Puna
area, we have a lot more structural fires and car fires and stuff. So how do we
properly identify those missions and then make sure that when we ask these
volunteers to step up, that they're properly equipped, properly trained, and that
they're working in a symbiotic relationship with the career side.
So I appreciate the efforts that we're doing. And then from the administrative
side, I know, from Chief and I, there's no vision we see in the foreseeable future
where the volunteers would not be an integral part of our response.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Thank you for making that
statement. There was a lot of concerned folks in the community and I appreciate
that. And when I started getting questions about a resolution, I'm like, well, first
of all, a resolution is a law but it's also more of an urge. And so these are things
that the Council's going to agree to or not agree to that we think should be
promoted as ideas. But this isn't going to erase the department. But, even then,
the idea was still fresh in their minds, "Well, what are you guys trying to do
then," and that's a great question. So thank you for that answer.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
A follow-up question. Just so I understand, what kind of level of training do the
volunteers get? Before you answer that, too, did you folks ask for an assessment?
MR. MOLLER: Yes, not directly. Let me answer your second part first.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, the first and second parts.
MR. MOLLER: We've been looking at a way to evaluate the volunteers since
2021 when I was in. We identified early on with the new Administration under
Chief Todd that there were needs that were not being met with the volunteer
program. There was, I would say, an overarching program planned on how do we
integrate the two services together. So this is something since 2021 that we were
working on. And I think through direct and indirect meetings with various
interests that we've been even looking at trying to put something together for the
volunteer branch of the department.
As far as the training, once again it depends on what the mission
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: All right. So the
MR. MOLLER: I'm sorry.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The assessment was directly asked for from
the department leadership to have an assessment of our volunteer program?
MR. MOLLER: Are you talking about the assessment that is being proposed in
the resolution, or are you saying the assessment in general?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The one being proposed that the Council
Member who brought this forward said that you requested.
MR. MOLLER: I believe it was a conversation. I was not a part of that
conversation, so I can't answer that without going back. I'll give you an answer
to that, definitely.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That's fine. I mean, we're in Council and I
don't want to postpone this measure, but I would like to know whether it did or
didn't happen. I'm learning that.
So then, training-wise, because this was brought up by the department, by the
volunteers, that their training is extensive, like hours of driving, hours of in-the-
field practice. I mean, what are we looking at for these guys? Is the training
inadequate at this time, in your thoughts or ?
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MR. MOLLER: No, I don't, as well as the career side. What we have to do is
work on the focus. And to get to that focus, we need to know what the mission is
that we're asking. What are the missions that I think, like in the Puna District,
that we
CHR. KIMBALL: Chief, I'm going to just interrupt you a little bit. We are
speaking on the amendment, and we've been kind of meandering a little bit. I've
allowed it but I do want to keep us efficient. So let's stick to the amendment and
whether it's an appropriate addition to the resolution before us, and then we can
have a deeper dialogue about the resolution as a whole. So if we canI
understand where you're going, but I think we've exceeded the bounds of the
appropriate discussion on whether or not to amend. Thank you.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So what the Chair is saying is we can touch
on this after we do the amendment. But it is hard to discuss an amendment if you
don't have the information (inaudible). Okay, with that I'll yield and I'll bring
this up at a further time. Thank you. Thank you for your answers.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Villegas. Again, on the amendment,please.
MS. VILLEGAS: I'll be supporting the amendment. I appreciate Council
Member Kierkiewicz going back and clarifying to try and remove any perceived
threat to our volunteer firefighter programs. When I look at how it relates as a
small portion—well, I guess it's one of the five `BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVEDs" in the resolution, but just to mitigate any misconceptions that this
be part of any kind of threat for those programs. So I'll be supporting the
amendment. And then I look forward to talking about the overall resolution and
some of my experiences as far as some of the other things that are going on
related to other reports. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. Any further discussion
on the amendment? Seeing none, all those in favor of amending
Resolution 333-23 with the contents of Communication 565.5, please say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Res. 333-23 with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 565.5 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball –7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy –2.
Excused: None.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Vote on Motion to Mr. Inaba moved to suspend Council Rule 23 to waive the
Suspend Council holdover for the substantive amendment of Res. 333-23.
Rules: Seconded by Ms. Villegas and carried by the following
(Approved) voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: We are back to the discussion of the main motion. And again
I'm just reminding folks to try to minimize the back-and-forth dialogue and stick
to the motion on the table, which is approval of Resolution 333-23. Any
discussion? Council Member Villegas, back to you.
MS. VILLEGAS: Sure. Thank you, Eric, for your explanation and providing a
lot of that background information and for the questions asked by Council
Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. I had the honor and privilege of talking to
Mr. John Binaski earlier this week. He works for AP Triton. My understanding
of what's been happening here is, and it was a few years ago that the auditor
Mr. Benner brought to us at Council a recommendation that the Fire Department
undergo an overall assessment, kind of a re-inventorying of everything. And I
believe that Chief Todd had been very supportive of that, anxious for that to
happen, and contributing any and all support possible to get us where we need to
go, based on the actual facts and assessments of all of our Fire Departments. So I
hope that helps clarify that that was kind of part of the history of this overall
assessment.
And in speaking with Mr. Binaski this week, one of the things we touched on was
the volunteer firefighter programs and their facilities and the equipment that they
have and do they have enough. Or do some of the things, pieces of equipment,
that are stored there in one facility, would they be more useful more regularly in
another? So everything's out on the table and being talked about, which I
appreciate. And having gone to an event to honor the volunteer firewoman who
fell into the hole in Ka`u and was severely burned, and everything she sacrificed,
you know, the need to inventory, could something have been done better? Would
there have been more resources for her? All those different things.
So, when it comes to the overall nature of this, not to mention the dozens of
emails I am getting from people on the daily for wildfire assessment, and what do
we do, how do we do it, how do we all get on the same page, I'm also a firm
believer that government and the Fire Department cannot be the only
organizations being asked to help mitigate our fire hazards, that there is
responsibility that resides with homeowners and neighborhoods and commercial
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
businesses and private property owners. We need to be reminded of our own
kuleana because there is only so much the Fire Department can do in a time of
crisis.
But I recognize the intentionality. And when I lookI mean, to me, this is just
including and more specifying about the potential impacts of wildfires in a review
that's already happening associated with our overall Fire Department. So, in my
mind, that makes sense and that is a highlighting in a time which I like to think is
sending a message to our constituents that as a Council, even though we're not in
charge of the Fire Department, we make policy. We can't control and
micromanage each and every piece of property in our districts, and whether or not
they have overgrown Guinea grass or whatnot.
But in bringing forth this resolution, I can support it because I see this as bringing
that conversation to Council. Thank you for clarifying and removing any
perceived threat to the volunteer fire stations, but that the impacts of wildfires be
included and the terminology be utilized as we do have this opportunity with a
funded project and program to inventory all the things happening here related to
the Fire Department.
Sorry, I was more long-winded than I intended, but I was trying to draw the web
back together to show what I believe and why I'll be supporting this. I'm grateful
for this to be included in this overall process because it is very concerning to a lot
of people, myself included. With that I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. To the main motion.
Again, Council Member Evans, if we can keep it brief.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I want to talk about the `BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED that the Office of the Mayor allocate funding and assist with
securing grants for wildfire prevention, to support the development of
comprehensive mitigation strategies such as improving forest and watershed
health, and enhancing community preparedness." What I'd like to hope is
Bobby Command and Lee Lord and the Mayor's office is watching this. I, as one,
will be looking at what you're going to propose when you bring in front of the
Council your budget in terms of looking at this comprehensive look at how the
County is looking at kind of a comprehensive mitigation strategy, because I do
think this will go beyond the Fire Department.
So I'm glad it's in here. There's a lot in that statement and, for me, doesn't need
further clarification. I have an expectation that, from the Mayor's office, we will
see something coming up in his draft budget that looks at that statement of a
comprehensive mitigation strategy. And we will see it go beyond just the Fire
Department. So with that I yield. Thank you.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Council
Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, thank you. Two things. There was a question
raised about I feel my integrity here, as if I'm making up conversations. And so I
just wanted to call upon Deputy Corporation Counsel Cody Frenz to confirm that
we had a conversation with Fire leadership—Fire One, BC (Battalion Chief)
Springer was there, Chief Birch, the captains that are running the volunteer fire
program that we discussed and they asked for an assessment. Deputy Frenz, can
you confirm that we had that conversation, that I'm not just making this up?
(Note: At this time, Deputy Corporation Counsel Dakota Frenz came
forward to address the members of the Council.)
MS. FRENZ: Sure. Good morning, everybody. Deputy Corporation Counsel
Cody Frenz, on behalf of the Fire Department. So that's correct. In fact, it started
with a very specific purpose. I reached out to Ashley for tightening up some
County Code modifications on behalf of the Fire Department. We had a group
meeting, in fact, in the Fire conference room, Administration conference room,
where it was in fact discussed. And that's how the beginning of our conversation
morphed into a much larger assessment and overall review of our current situation
and dynamic under the Code. So that is in fact correct.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Deputy. I really appreciate that. I don't want
folks thinking that I'm just pulling things out of thin air. I am very keenly aware
of where we are right now. We are in budget cycle, budget discussions. Deanna,
Managing Director, they're reaching out to all of the departments to talk about
what priorities are. This resolution sends a very strong signal of what we want to
see in next year's budget.
There has been investments in IT (Information Technology) and Environmental
Management and Police and Prosecutor's. And you know what? We've got to
invest in Fire. And, yes, we want to make sure we're supporting our volunteers,
but you want to really know what I want to make sure we're doing? That we're
supporting our career; that these men and women have to sleep at stations that
really should be condemned; have a safe place to go, that they have equipment
that works. Yes, I care about volunteers, but I also care about my partner who's
at Station 5. I care about Kili, Holeka's sister. Right? We have friends and
`ohana that are in the Fire Department that have committed to doing this as their
job, that have not gotten the support that they've needed for so long.
So it is an assessment, yes, and it is a plan of action that we must commit to
because fires are a real thing. We are in El Nino season. There is huge risk of
fires happening all over the island. They're happening now and we need to make
sure our personnel are supported. I have Royd Henderson, Chief Darwin Okinaka
in the Hilo chambers, if they would like to come and speak to the needs of our
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
career folks. But I think I've really made the point here, that our department
needs help. And this is a signal to the Administration that you need to make it a
priority in the next budget cycle. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Anything else?
All right, before we proceed, I was going to make a comment about decorum at a
later point in the day, but I think that it is appropriate now. I just want to remind
the body and all the members on it that we abide by our own rules as well as those
of Robert's Rules of Order with respect to decorum, which is that discussion
should remain on the topic at hand. It should be germane to the conversation in
front of us, the motion in front of us. There should be no assignment of personal
intention or personal remarks in the comments made. Please stick to the facts.
And, finally, the dialogue back and forth should be kept to a minimum. So I
request, proceeding forward, that folks summarize all of their questions at one
point while they have the floor, and then responses can be made after that, rather
than back-and-forth dialogue. So again, very encourage all members of our body
to maintain the rules of dialogue. Thank you. Council Member Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Yeah, I appreciate that
comment. Cody Frenz? Thank you for being on today.
MS. FRENZ: Yes, sir.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Understanding, and I heard the Chief earlier,
that there was an assessment requested. Is this the specific paragraph I'm looking
at that was there an assessment of the volunteer fire department requested by the
Administration within the Fire Department? That was my question. And it's
pretty specific. It's laid out specifically in this resolution that that was requested.
That's what I'm checking, not the whole department. Mr. Benner requested—and
I remember that discussion at Council. That was a big one. Having an
assessment of the entire department, that's huge. But this is specific to just the
volunteer fire department. Was that question raised?
MS. FRENZ: That's a part of the overall larger conversation that has been
ongoing and will probably always be ongoing, given the way in which the Code is
written, the tie between both career and volunteer stations. I don't know how,
Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, you would evaluate one and not the other,
quite frankly, based on the current Code and how it's drafted. So, in order to
assess what needs the volunteer division has, it also ties in to what the career
needs are. So you can't really do one without the other. So I believe—and I
understand there's a general understanding for an overall assessment in general.
So that would cover both.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. That's a good answer. That's
helpful. Thank you for providing that and being present today.
MS. FRENZ: Sure.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, with that, I'll be supporting the
resolution today. I just want to make sure that we're doing things in the right
way, and that we have good information in front of us. So thank you for that,
Chair. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Council Member Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. We missed the Committee hearing, but happy to
support this resolution. And I think there's definitely a need to support further
what the Fire Department is requesting, and in light of the ongoing contract that
we have for a master plan and a strategic plan for the department. So do ask for
everyone's support and look forward to moving this along. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Inaba. With that, we'll move to
the vote on the item. All those in favor of adopting Resolution 333-23, as
amended, please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 333-23: The motion to adopt Res. 333-23, as amended to Draft 2,
Draft 2 and Governmental Operations and External Affairs
(Adopted) Committee Report No. 83 was carried by the following
voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Res. 331-23: AUTHORIZES THE OFFICE OF HOUSING AND COMMUNITY
DEVELOPMENT TO AWARD FUNDS TO VARIOUS ORGANIZATIONS FOR
PROGRAMS ADDRESSING AFFORDABLE HOUSING
Allows for the distribution of$17,324,559.46 of grant funds to seven organizations
to support the County's Affordable Housing Production Program.
Reference: Comm. 560
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
Approve: FC-103
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
(Note: Comm. 560.5, from Housing Administrator Susan Kunz dated
November 13, 2023, transmitting information relating to Res. 331-23, was
circulated.)
Motion to Approve: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to adopt Res. 331-23 and
Finance Committee Report No. 103. Seconded by
Ms. Villegas.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much, Chair. In your
packets, you have received Communication 560.5 from the Administration, and if
you guys want to come up. And thank you for putting this together. This was
based on our conversation we had last time and requesting more information.
Ms. Kunz, thank you for being here. Do you want to run through this at all, or
how do you want to proceed?
(Note: At this time, Housing Administrator Susan Kunz came forward to
address the members of the Council.)
MS. KUNZ: I'm more than willing to run through the documents or answer any
questions that you might have.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Since you've done so well putting this
together that really lays out where everything is—does everyone have this report
(see Comm. 560.5)? Yeah, that's the one. Okay, Rebecca needs a copy. Here,
you can use mine. I read through this extensively.
Why don't you go ahead and just kind of break it down. It's a really nice
presentation of the data. That was one of my concerns that I brought up at the last
meeting. So if you could run through the communication you submitted, yeah.
Thank you.
MS. KUNZ: Good morning. My name is Susan Kunz. I'm the Housing
Administrator for the Office of Housing. Thank you for this opportunity to share
additional information about the award process that the Office of Housing
engaged in to do this award. So, at the last Committee meeting, there were
questions about time lines, for example. So Exhibit A in the communication that
we're providing gives you an idea about the start dates of each one of those
projects. I will tell you that I have representatives from all of these awardees in
the room today and on Zoom. So, as we are moving through the presentation, if
you have specific questions about the project, we can call on them.
Exhibit B. The need for this additional information came from questions about
our prioritizing the higher AMI (Area Median Income) or preferencing the higher
AMI with this award. What we wanted to share was, although the Affordable
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Housing Production Program is highlighting 100 to 140 percent AMI, one of the
things that I mentioned is that there are a lot of Federal and State funding
programs that focus on supporting the lower AMI. So if you look at this
presentation, first of all what I wanted to share is of the total number of units that
we are awarding, which is 1,176 units, 845 are rentals, 327 are for sale, and 4 of
them are manager units tied into these housing projects.
You'll see the charts, falling right below that, indicates the AMI of the units
that—so, for example, of the 845 rental units, you'll see the breakdown of AMI.
And what's really interesting is even if we had prioritized the 100 to 140, you'll
see that the majority of the units that got awarded were the lower AMI. Same
thing for the for sale units.
So the pie chart below that just kind of gives you that similar information in total.
So everything up to 80 percent AMI, 60 percent of the funds went to that. And
then almost 40 percent to the higher AMI.
On the second page of that exhibit, we're intending to show you the Federal and
State funding programs that support up to 60 percent AMI; up to 80 percent AMI;
and the Affordable Housing Production Program,which is the only program
we're aware of that's supporting the higher AMI production. You have any
questions there? No? Okay.
There were also questions about the housing planning study, so I wanted to
provide that information here for you. So we put the cover page there to identify
that this is the data that we're using to show the 10,000 units needed by this
community to satisfy our housing needs. When you look at the chart, it breaks
down for Hawaii County by AMI the number of units that the study is reflecting
the need for this community. There is a total number of 13,000 there, but that
does include units that are above 180 percent AMI. So I just wanted to call out.
So the 10,000 that I keep touting is up to 140 percent.
Exhibit D was meant to give you a little more information about the public
hearings that we held. So we held two public hearings that were both Zoom and
in person. One event, we had 30 people participating. And the second event,
there were 36. We also gleaned information from the Mayor's town hall meetings
that we did islandwide as well. So we took a lot of information there to gather
data from the community to help us determine the priorities for awarding this
program. So I'd love to answer any questions if you have any.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much, Ms. Kunz. The
reason I asked for some of that information is because it helps me see the picture.
There's a lot of different feelings in the community about the way we're moving
forward as affordable housing, on both sides of the fence. What I wanted to see
was how it lays out and what the Office of Housing and Community Development
has seen as priorities, what we're funding, what we're going to build or are
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
pushing into the community, what the community is going to see on the back end
as what we did as an action to solve the affordable housing crisis, and I like what I
saw. I asked some hard questions and you answered them all, and that data is
very clear. So I don't have any more questions. Thank you.
MS. KUNZ: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Vice
Chair Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. Good morning, Administrator Kunz.
MS. KUNZ: Good morning.
MR. INABA: Just for the organizations who did receive funding that are not
nonprofits. They're designated as "other organizations" in Exhibit A of the
resolution. Just wondering what the process was for those three—well, one of
those is your own office. But for the other two, I'm assuming—could you share a
little bit about the competitive bid process that those two projects went through to
get this funding? So that would be 2 million to Kamakoa Nui and 3 million to
Ho`omalu at Waikoloa.
MS. KUNZ: Right. So there were actually a total of 20 applications for
$17 million and change. So the Committee as the—well, first I should say that
when we conduct an RFP (Request for Proposals), there is selection criteria that is
posted. So it's very public about what you're going to get graded on and how
many points you could glean from each category. So it's very clear.
Once the applications come in and the team starts looking at those proposals,
they're ranked, right. And then determining the total number of funds and how
many projects we can fund. So, basically, what you see here is 100 percent
funding for those top-rated projects. Before the team even starts to rank and rate,
they have to meet those eligibility criteria. And so these organizations did meet
that. There was, in fact, one organization that didn't meet eligibility, so they
weren't even ranked. But the team does do that before they even start to rank
projects. I don't know if I'm answering your questions directly but—
MR.
utMR. INABA: Yeah, maybe it might be a Corporation Counsel question. So just
wanting to make sure because for organizations that are not nonprofits, there is
this competitive bid process. And I'm assuming other organizations didn't apply
for the Kamakoa Nui project. That's something that that organization is already
in the process of working on. So did this process that your office led and your
selection via your process, was that considered a competitive bid since it wasn't
specific to that project, which is what you folks had set out in your criteria?
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MS. KUNZ: So, for Kamakoa Nui, we know that this is a County project. The
Office of Housing applied for those funds to do the mini-loop road. The
administrative rules allow the Office of Housing to award up to 30 percent of that
fiscal year's funding to an OHCD (Office of Housing and Community
Development)project. So I can actually take and set aside 30 percent of the funds
to award housing projects in-house.
While that is the case, in this process we chose to let Kamakoa Nui compete with
the rest. So we ranked that application along with everybody else. So they
actually ranked out based on the public criteria, and so we awarded them along
with the other projects, not as a set aside.
MR. INABA: Okay. And then for the Ho`omalu at Waikoloa, the 3 million, will
we be seeing any type of—is there an existing 201H, or might we be something
like that associated? Because we did see a property acquisition for Kamakoa Nui,
or we just had some kind of resolution for that project. So just wondering will we
see anything for Ho`omalu.
MS. KUNZ: We have an existing. That's all that's in play right now that I'm
aware of. I mean, we could call the project managers up if you have any
questions about their intention. Should we do that?
MR. INABA: No. Just from your agency's standpoint. There's nothing further
that we might be seeing right now, right?
MS. KUNZ: No.
MR. INABA: Okay. Perfect. Corporation Counsel, if you could just answer that
question. I just want to make sure, on the Code side, that we're good. So,
understanding that we gave out certain funds through this process to certain
organizations who are not nonprofits, did this process meet the requirements of a
competitive bid, even though it was not specific? It wasn't like multiple
organizations applying for the 2 million for Kamakoa Nui. It was Kamakoa Nui
applying specifically to a project that they already have been involved in. I just
want to make sure we're good on that.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward
to address the members of the Council.)
MS. STRANCE: Good morning. Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. With
that specific a question, Council Member Inaba, I would need to take it back to
my office. In talking with Director Kunz, Deputy Sylvia Wan was very much
involved in the process of awarding, and I have confidence in her eye for detail.
Director Kunz is telling me that with respect to Kamakoa Nui, there weren't
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
multiple bidders on that. And so that might have been handled based upon that
information, but I'm not able to speak from my having reviewed it and would
need to collect that information for you.
MR. INABA: Okay. Yup. I mean, sorry,just making sure that when we are
voting, that we are voting and that we met the criteria of the Code here. I do
support the resolution, and thank you, Mr. Shiroma and the team, for getting these
awesome projects on the floor here today in case we have any questions. I think
it's a diverse approach, especially for some of the projects here on the west side. I
just have a little hesitation until I know that we are meeting the requirements of
the Code for compliance with that competition and the competitive bids, but do
support everything and all the projects in there. So thank you.
MS. STRANCE: Council Member, are you asking that I follow up or have a
deputy follow up with you directly?
MR. INABA: Yes, please.
MS. STRANCE: Okay, thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Vice Chair Inaba, and I'll note that there's a
companion bill with this, Bill 96, that's just in first reading. So there's an
opportunity to have that discussion at the second and final reading of that bill.
Also, this was in Committee earlier, the 31"of October, and so some of these
things were quite far delved into. So I encourage the folks that were not present
at the Committee hearing to review the video because we did cover a lot of this
stuff at that time. Council Member Villegas, (inaudible).
MS. VILLEGAS: Sure. Thank you, Chair Kimball. In reading through the
report on the Committee that I did miss, I was able to look through and note
where you had asked here for a graph providing through the housing study that
reflect the needs per district and income and the number of rental units versus for
sale units, which is what I see is reflected in that report that was provided there.
My question becomes, and I'm just hoping we can quickly run through your chart,
where each of these projects, and I apologize, but where they're located because I
didn't see a"per district"part. So, Kamakoa Nui? Waikoloa.
MS. KUNZ: Waikoloa Village.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. And Mental Health Kokua?
MS. KUNZ: That is the purchase of the Manago Hotel, so that is in South Kona.
MS. VILLEGAS: South Kona. Great. I thought I saw that;just wanted to
confirm. Housing and Land Enterprise, Hale o Hawaii, land trust? Volcano.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MS. KUNZ: Yes.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. And then same thing, Hilo, for the next one. Ho`omalu,
Waikoloa. Office of Housing and Community Development, this is a big one.
MS. KUNZ: Kamakoa Nui.
MS. VILLEGAS: I'm sorry?
MS. KUNZ: Kamakoa Nui, Waikoloa Village.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. And Hawaii Island Community Development
Corporation.
MS. KUNZ: That's in Hilo.
MS. VILLEGAS: In Hilo. Okay, thank you.
MS. KUNZ: You're welcome.
MS. VILLEGAS: I just wanted to kind of see the spreading out on the island.
And I do understand it's really challenging to find the land in Kona more central,
and we're navigating water credits as well in some of this area. But thank you for
helping me see a broader picture of where these are located islandwide.
MS. KUNZ: You're welcome.
MS. VILLEGAS: I appreciate it. I'll be supporting this resolution, and grateful
to have so many units in the pipeline.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. Council
Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for pulling this information
together. It's really helpful. I just want to point out a couple things because I
don't think the public has this in front of them, necessarily. So the page that I
kind of asked for was this one about looking at how these units that we are
developing break down between different AMI groups. So this one with the
MS. KUNZ: Okay.
MS. KAGIWADA: And I just want to noteso, yes, as you noted, we are
actually doing over 60 percent of the AMI units from 30 to 80 percent AMI, even
though that isn't necessarily the top focus of this pot of money. But I think it's
really interesting and I guess it totally makes sense that the units that are for sale
are primarily in that higher group so that the 100 to 140 percent AMI, or actually
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
120 to 140 percent AMI, and with only two units for sale being potentially below
that. I understand the economics of that, but I'm just wondering—and I guess if
we flip to the back page where you also listed the funding opportunities for these
different AMI groups, which I think really highlights why you're focusing on the
up to 140 percent AMI, because it's the only program that does that. All the other
programs here focus on only up to 80 percent AMI.
I'm just wondering, these other programs, do any of them focus on housing for
purchase, or are they almost all primarily rental housing? Because when we see
what's being built here, the housing for purchase is almost all the higher AMI
group.
MS. KUNZ: I think that of the programs that are listed, the rentalno, rental
housing obviously is for rental. Community Development Block Grant is not for
sale. Project-based vouchers are rental subsidies. I'm not sure about Hula Mae,
to be honest. Let me check with my staff. So Royce is informing me that the
HOME Investment Partnership Program, a lot of the time we will support
programs like self-help housing and that's definitely for sale. Is that the only
LIHTC (Low Income Housing Tax Credit) is rental. So I think it's probably just
HOME.
MS. KAGIWADA: You thinkI'm sorry, what?
MS. KUNZ: That supports for sale. That is your question, right?
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah, how many of these programs support for sale units for
lower AMI families or individuals, and not very many.
MS. KUNZ: And affordable housing production.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah. Okay. That totally makes sense. I get it. It's
something that maybe, even with the focus on the higher end for this kind of gap
funding, maybe if there's a chance to look at homes for sale for lower AMI since
that funding doesn't seem to be as prevalent out there, we could consider. Okay.
And then my other thing I just want to point out, I think one of my colleagues said
at the last meeting that they were happy to see the money being spread around the
island. And it is true that there is one home being developed in Volcano, and one
home and partial funding request being funded for Hilo. But really, almost
60 million of this money is going to the west side of the island, correct?
MS. KUNZ: Yes.
MS. KAGIWADA: So I'm just hoping, since this was two years of funding, that
that is going to be taken into account looking at funding going forward. I realize
you have to deal with lots of different things that you're looking at, including
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
what's shovel-ready and what's ready to go. But I really hope that some of the
other places that also really need housing—obviously specifically for me, Hilo,
we've had such a huge explosion of homeless people, of people really struggling
over in Hilo—and so I'm hoping that we can direct some funding over there.
MS. KUNZ: Yeah, I agree. And I'm always very sensitive to the distribution of
funds. Some of the time, what limits my ability to do that is not having
applications from that district, right. So I think in the next round of funding,
definitely, as we're starting to do public hearings and things like that, really trying
to work with developers from across the island and encouraging them to
participate and to submit applications for funding.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, that's all I have. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Anyone else?
Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. I appreciate Ms. Kagiwada
because she jogged my memory. I try and say this at every meeting so that we
track this and we get there, but I really do feel this was put on my head by
Patrick Hurney, okay—equity is built when we start supporting community at all
levels. To me, primary equity is when you provide someone a house they can live
in and pass on to their kids forever in perpetuity, as long as the family maintains.
And that is to Ms. Kagiwada's point that low AMI for sale housing—and I know
we have some programs and we have some subsidies. There's different ways we
can address that. But if we start to put our lower income families in homes they
can live in forever, their kids get a leg up and that truly is how we start building
equity in our community and we start addressing the problem of cost of living in
Hawaii, which is incredibly high for a number of reasons. I cannot stress that
enough. I'm going to try and say that at every meeting when we talk about
affordable housing because, to me, that really is the crux of the matter right there.
So thank you for jogging my memory. That was a beautiful point, and thank you
for being here and answering our questions.
MS. KUNZ: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Administrator Kunz, too,
and your team for this additional information. We had really robust conversations
at the Committee meeting, and I just wanted to continue to acknowledge all of the
hard work that's taken place to design a new program, craft the rules, and then get
money out the door. Because, the intention was there are so many different pots
of money availableState, Federal Government-but there was a missing piece,
and this program helps to fill that gap. So I'm honored to have worked with you
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
to get that initial funding in place, and to see that there are projects that are going
to be supported and that there are going to be more houses coming online in the
coming years.
One thing that I just want to note is I hope that there is consideration for how we
might help those that are living in Lava Zones 1 and 2. I know that this is a high-
hazard, high-risk area, but I think we can get creative around housing to ensure
that folks that are living in these communities, because that's what they can
afford, right, are also getting opportunities through programs like this. So thank
you for taking that into consideration. I'll be supporting this package as
presented. I yield.
MS. KUNZ: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Anyone else?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Chair, I have a random issue.
CHR. KIMBALL: Go ahead, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. It's
probably not random. Remember, I just made the comment"stay germane."
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It's germane but I mean it's kind of on the
other side of the fence. What happens if we say no to this resolution? I'm just
wondering out loud. What happens if we say no to the resolution. Would you go
back to the drawing board and look for, say, more projects in Hilo? I'm just
wondering out loud. And I never asked the question.
MS. KUNZ: Wow!
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, while I appreciate
that, I think that's a process question, and obviously we cannot move forward
with the distribution of these funds without the passing of the resolution or the
bill. I don't think there's guidance within the Code that is specifically about
whether or not they'd reinitiate the process. So, unless it's pertinent to your vote
today, I don't know that we need to go into the
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I would like to hear the answer from the
Administrator.
CHR. KIMBALL: I'm not sure Administrator Kunz knows the answer to that
particular question at this time, but go ahead.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just what would you do, and just real brief.
MS. KUNZ: I'm responsible to distribute these funds and utilize them for the
purpose that was set forth in the ordinance. I would have to start all over. We
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
would go out with another RFP and start the process all over again. It would
delay award. It would delay expenditure. It would delay delivery of housing
units. But that's what I would have to do if you said no.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. I'm not saying I want to do it. I
just was wondering what happens. Thank you.
MS. KUNZ: Okay.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: I just have a quick comment and question. I appreciate your
doing the math and looking at all the funds being allocated to the west side of the
island in this round. I would also humbly ask, and it may not be a question you
could answer for me now, but historically it seems, in my mind, that most of the
affordable housing has otherwise been built on the east side. So I just wonder
what that overall historical data might be,just from we have to sit here and part of
our job is to make sure we're trying to get the funds for our side of the island.
And in what we hear, sitting in these roles, is that people are sleeping in their cars
right here on Ane Keohokalole because they live on the east side and they do have a
home,but the jobs,unfortunately, are on this side. So just wanted to make sure that
some of that relevance is looked at as we look historically at where the allocation of
resources have been islandwide. Yeah. So just maybe something funny to think
about on where they are.
I just recently went to a GIS (Geographic Information System) training, and they
were providing information on how we can take those kind of statistics and data
and it could be plugged in. And then we could actually look: "Okay, here's the
map. Here's where we have the houses, and this is when they were built. And
this is where they are there." But it just provides us an opportunity to share with
our constituents the equity of the distribution historically and moving forward.
MS. KUNZ: I think both of you are correct. What you're recognizing is correct,
as far as what's the distribution of funds for this round. What we've seen
historically, I think you're probably right. What we are seeing is the production
of a lot of units coming online in, which is considered West Hawaii, in the
Waikoloa area. I mean, infrastructure is such a huge issue for housing
development, and we have a lot of that existing in the Waikoloa area. So I think
that's a lot of the reason why we're seeing those units coming up there. These
things all play into our ability to develop units and for the developers, right.
Where they're going to find land, where they can get infrastructure, and then of
course the funding. So, yeah.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you for doing the dance. Sometimes it's a two-step and
sometimes it's a tango, and every once in a while it's a limbo, right. All right.
Thank you, I yield.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. I'd like to just make a
comment, a reflection of a couple of statements that were made, which is I think
it's probably unreasonable to presume equitable geographical distribution of these
funds. And our discussions around the Housing Production Fund when it was
created is it's really meant to fill a gap. And since we have such diverse
economic systems across the island, diverse needs and diverse populations, I think
we should be taking those factors into account rather than looking for
geographical equity, particularly because some places are easy to fund with other
programs and others are not.
One of the issues we have of course in West Hawaii is the average income in the
area is pretty high, and so it's hard to bring in some other Federal funds to
subsidize that. The Housing Production Fund is a subsidy. And so, similarly with
the for sales, those can be done sometimes by developers, whereas it's not as
feasible for developers to do rental units at those lower AMIs. And that's why I
think we see a little bit more of the public funding being directed towards those
that are really just not possible to pencil out in any kind of developer market
scenario. So just wanted to make that comment. With that, I will go ahead and
proceed with the vote. All those in favor of adopting Resolution 331-23, please
say "aye."
Vote on Res. 331-23: The motion to adopt Res. 331-23 and Finance Committee
(Adopted) Report No. 103 was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Bill 96: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 23-50, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING
BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
ENDING JUNE 30, 2024
Decreases appropriations in the Housing Production account(-$17,324,559.46); and
appropriates the same to the following accounts: Kamakoa Nui LP-Construction
($2 million), Mental Health Kokua-Property Acquisition ($5.5 million), Hale O
Hawaii County-Volcano Construction ($300,000), Hale O Hawaii County-Hilo
Construction ($300,000), Ho`omalu at Waikoloa LP-Construction ($3 million),
OHCD-Infrastructure Development Kamakoa Nui ($5.4 million), and Hawaii
Island Community Development Corporation-Construction Mohouli ($824,559.46).
Reference: Comm. 560
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
Approve: FC-104
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Motion to Approve: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to pass Bill 96 on first
reading and adopt Finance Committee Report No. 104.
Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Any discussion?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Go ahead, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just a mahalo to the department for doing
the legwork and getting it done, and getting the taxpayer money that we set aside
to do the work out there. And then to all the organizations that came in and
applied to be a part of this and to get us moving, thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Council
Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I'm just grateful that we're moving with some
affordable housing in Waikoloa. But just a quick question. We, from this fund,
are going to put money towards construction and infrastructure. And given how
long it is to roll out these projects, what is the expectation that in fact they will be
made available to the public? What year do you think they would be opening
these units?
(Note: At this time, Housing Administrator Susan Kunz came forward to
address the members of the Council.)
MS. KUNZ: Are you speaking specifically about the Waikoloa project?
MS. EVANS: Yes.
MS. KUNZ: So Kamakoa Nui?
MS. EVANS: Yeah.
MS. KUNZ: The funding there is to support the build-out of the mini-loop road,
which will give us access to the separate TMKs (tax map keys) there on the
property. There's a mix of rental units and for sale units. The road is scheduled
to start work next year, right? Okay. So, yeah, there is a chart in your exhibits
that's showing that the road will go in next year.
Once the road is there or any portion of the road,we could—and that would give
us access to those TMKs, I'm hoping we can start to move forward with RFPs to
award those lots to developers. So, by the time we do that, we're probably talking
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
about another couple of years before we award, to be honest. But whatever I can
do to try to expedite that to get those developers on board, I think we can move
forward quicker.
There has been a lot of interest. We are constantly meeting with developers who
are interested in doing work in the area. So there's not a shortage of people who
want to develop there.
MS. EVANS: So you're going to be coming back annually with your list. So
they may come back again in the future.
MS. KUNZ: Who is "they"?
MS. EVANS: You. To do something for Kamakoa Nui. We might see
something next year?
MS. KUNZ: Potentially.
MS. EVANS: Okay. All right.
MS. KUNZ: But right now, we don't have any developer partners for the
development of Kamakoa Nui. This is strictly the Office of Housing doing
infrastructure work at this time. Yeah.
MS. EVANS: All right, thank you. I'm in support. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Anyone else? Okay, all those in favor of
adopting Bill 96 at first reading, please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 96: The motion to pass Bill 96 on first reading and adopt
(Approved) Finance Committee Report No. 104 was carried by the
following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: I believe we have somebody from DHHL (Department of
Hawaiian Home Lands) who has been patiently waiting on Zoom for
Resolution 355-23, so if we can take that next, please. Thank you to the members
of OHCD for being here today.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public.
PUBLIC ON
RES. 355-23 The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called by
(COMM. 588): the Chair:
Patrick Kahawaiola`a: Comment.
(representing Keaukaha Community Association)
Res. 355-23: AUTHORIZES THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO AN INTERGOVERNMENTAL
AGREEMENT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HAWAIIAN HOME LANDS
REGARDING MAINTENANCE AND IMPROVEMENT OF COUNTY
MAINTAINED ROADS IN KEAUKAHA
Authorizes the Mayor to enter into an agreement for paving, widening, and drainage
improvements for certain roads located in Keaukaha.
Reference: Comm. 588
Intr. by: Ms. Evans (B/R)
Waived: GOEAC
Motion to Approve: Ms. Evans moved to adopt Res. 355-23. Seconded by
Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: We have a representative from DHHL on Zoom if there are
any questions. Any discussion? Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: I ask for favorable support. I believe that what this does is it really
focuses on the issue of the maintenance that is needed, and it gets the parties
hopefully to the table to have that discussion and get these roads in better
condition. So I ask for favorable support. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Council
Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Is anyone from Public Works available
to speak to the merits of this resolution? I think Deputy Kekai
CHR. KIMBALL: The Deputy Director might be available in Hilo chambers.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: This is really concerning to me. This is very reminiscent
to discussions we had I think in a prior Council term where the Department of
Hawaiian Homes was being asked to pay for maintenance work. And to the
testimony that was provided by Uncle Pat, I don't know why this is being
required of a homestead community. They pay taxes too. And so I figure this is
work that the County should be doing naturally, but perhaps, Deputy, you can
enlighten us as to why this agreement is necessary at this point.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
(Note: At this time, Public Works Deputy Director Malia Kekai came
forward to address the members of the Council.)
MS. KEKAL Yes, thank you. Good morning. Malia Kekai, Deputy Director of
Public Works. This is not regular maintenance. Yes, we have an agreement
already with DHHL that we maintain their roads. This is actually improvements.
So we're going to go in and widen the roads for them. And, basically, they're just
providing materials, and we provide all the labor. We've worked out this
agreement in order to kind of cost share and help each other out to get this done
for the community as they put in the sewer lines and the new water lines as well.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you for those additional details. Is anyone from the
Department of Hawaiian Homes on?
CHR. KIMBALL: I believe we do have a representative on Zoom.
(Note: At this time, Kelbert Yoshida, Land Development Division,
Department of Hawaiian Home Lands, came forward to address the
members of the Council.)
MR. YOSHIDA: Good morning. This is Kelbert Yoshida from Department of
Hawaiian Home Lands, Land Development Division. The MOA (Memorandum
of Agreement) is basically to do the cost sharing to follow our sewer and water
line improvements.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Are you able to speak to the costs that are being borne by
the County as well the department?
MR. YOSHIDA: The cost sharing agreement is basically to pay for the material
for the additional widening of the road. We seem to look at it as a project that
would follow any of the sewer line and water line improvements in Keaukaha.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Is there an actual figure that you are able to discuss at this
point or no, or even a range?
MR. YOSHIDA: No. Estimated cost of the material would be about$900,000.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That's just the materials.
MR. YOSHIDA: Material cost alone, yes.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Not to mention theI'm hearing potentially design
engineering, actual construction work, too, that needs to happen.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MR. YOSHIDA: That's already borne by the department. So we actually started
a Phase 1 where we did improvements on a section of Desha Avenue, and we're
nearing the end. So the department actually put in over half-a-million dollars'
worth of work to get to this point.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: That's great. Thank you. Chair, if I couldI know this
was waived out of Committee straight to Council,but we do not have the Council
Member that represents Keaukaha here. And I just want to confirm that this is
something that Council Member Lee Loy is on board with. She's very connected
to the homestead community, showing up to all of their meetings, and I just want
to make sure that she's on board with this, she's been part of the discussions. And
so, once folks have asked their questions and made their comments, I would like
to ask if we could just postpone this to the next Council meeting. I apologize.
I'm not trying to slow your process down, but I really think it's important that we
do hear from the representative from this district and get her mana`o before we
make a decision as a body. Thank you, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Other discussion?
Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Malia or Steve or
whoever wants to answer. What is the urgency of the waive to Council? Is there
a requirement to move quickly on this? Is everyone ready to move, and that's
why we're waiving to Council?
MS. KEKAL I can take that, Council Member. Yes. DHHL is nearing the end
of their improvements. And so the road widening,we kind of wanted to do it in
concert with them and, therefore, kind of to match up the timing so that basically
the project could be seamless. So that was the reason for asking for the waiver.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That makes complete sense tome. Thank
you, I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Did I see
another light on? No? Council Member Inaba.
MR. INABA: I'm comfortable to move this forward, especially in light of the
it's for improvements in the homestead. So I don't want to have to see this again.
Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. I believe Director would like to make a comment.
(Note: At this time, Public Works Director Stephen Pause came forward
to address the members of the Council.)
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MR. PAUSE: Thank you. Steve Pause, Public Works Director. Just to add on
with what Malia said. We've been trying to—we have equipment for doing
paving, and we've been trying to mobilize it and put it in certain parts of the
island. I believe that part of, I don't want to call it an urgency, but part of the
coordination here is to have the equipment available to be finishing up work, say,
in South Hilo or some area there. Presently, we're up in Waikoloa. So we've
been trying to get a little better at just staging equipment and moving it, and not
going bouncing all around the island. So I believe that that's also in concert of
just the general scheduling for our equipment, our manpower, and our Highways
folks. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Director. Anyone else? All right, seeing no
further comments
Motion to Postpone: MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Chair, I'd like to make a motion to postpone this measure
to our December 6h Council meeting.
Motion to Postpone CHR. KIMBALL: Motion by Council Member Kierkiewicz to postpone to
Fails: December 6h Council meeting. Any second? All right, without seeing a second,
the motion fails. We're proceeding into the main vote. All those in favor
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Hang on one second, Chair. Sorry, I just want to note for
the record that I reached out to Council Member Lee Loy and she says, no, she
would like to be part of a future discussion regarding this measure. So I'll just
note that for the record.
CHR. KIMBALL: All right, thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Moving
to the main motion, all those in favor please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 355-23: The motion to adopt Res. 355-23 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Page 40
Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Bill 85: AMENDS SECTION 25-8-33 (CITY OF HILO ZONE MAP), ARTICLE 8,
(Draft 2) CHAPTER 25 (ZONING) OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983
(2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY CHANGING THE DISTRICT
CLASSIFICATION FROM AGRICULTURAL—3 ACRES (A-3a) TO FAMILY
AGRICULTURAL— 1 ACRE (FA-la) AT HILO, HAWAII, COVERED BY TAX
MAP KEY: 2-2-048:092 (Applicant: Sandra Kaneshiro) (Area: 3.16 acres)
The Windward Planning Commission forwards its favorable recommendation for
this change of zone request, which would allow the applicant to subdivide the
property into two lots, each approximately 1.4 acres in size to accommodate
existing single-family dwellings. The property is located at 605 Makalika Street,
approximately 540 feet southeast(mauka) of its intersection with Railroad Avenue.
Reference: Comm. 518.2
Intr. by: Mr. Inaba(B/R)
First Reading: November 1, 2023
(Note: Comm. 518.3, from Council Member Holeka Goro Inaba dated
November 9, 2023, transmitting proposed amendments to Bill 85, Draft 2, was
circulated.)
Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to pass Bill 85, Draft 2, on second and
final reading. Seconded by Ms. Villegas.
CHR. KIMBALL: Vice Chair Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. We do have the applicant's representative here today,
and I just have one amendment contained in our pinkie folder similar to the
amendment we saw yesterday in Committees. Just lining up the language exactly
as it is in the Code regarding completion of conditions and the option for a time
extension.
Motion to Amend: Mr. Inaba moved to amend Bill 85, Draft 2, with the
contents of Comm. 518.3. Seconded by Ms. Villegas.
CHR. KIMBALL: On the amendment, Vice Chair Inaba.
MR. INABA: No further comment. Ready for the vote. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Any other discussion on the amendment?
MR. INABA: Sorry, real quick. I wanted to let you folks know that I did run
these amendments and show the applicant's representative. So they are in
support. Thank you.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
CHR. KIMBALL: Okay, any further discussion? I would like to invite the
applicant up to the table if you'd like to say any words on the amendment. If
you're fine, then no need.
(Note: At this time, Daryn Arai, applicant's representative, came forward
to address the members of the Council.)
MR. ARAI: I had to check my watch, make sure it's still morning, but thank you
very much. Good morning. Daryn Arai, Planning Consultant, assisting the
applicant, Sandra Kaneshiro. Council Member Inaba did show me
Communication 518.3. We don't have an objection to the amendments simply
because it rephrases what's already in Draft 2, and I know you wanted us to speak
to just the amendment.
I just wanted to make a brief statement, if you don't mind, and it's regarding the
process. I mean, the discussions regarding the performance conditions have been
awkward at times, but I just wanted to impress that we appreciated the Director
and Windward Planning Commission's recommendation on a bill that was really
tailored to the scope of the project. In all rezoning ordinances that is put forth by
the Council, there's a Section 2 that spells out exactly the type of conditions that
should be in the ordinance, and those are to prevent the deleterious effects of a
project on public infrastructure or public welfare. If there are no deleterious
effects, then there should be no corresponding conditions in an ordinance.
The request before you today is straightforward, separating a property that has
two existing homes into two separate lots. We just don't see any deleterious
effects on public welfare or public infrastructure. So, with that, I just wanted to
make that statement. That's my two yen worth, which is not much nowadays.
That's less than two cents. I just thought I'd offer that perspective. But thank
you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Again back—we're on the amendment now,
Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. On the amendment. I think what we
have here is something that really does well at clarifying the initial condition that
was contained in the bill for ordinance. And for folks in the community who
don't have access to this communication, it's related to initiating, reverting
property back to original zoning designation or more appropriate zoning, that that
action can be done by the Council or the Planning Director. So it's explicitly
stating that. And then anything related to initial extensions of time, there is a
section of Code that spells out the process for that.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
So I think what's been done here—and thank you, Council Member Inabais just
really clarifying the tools and the process, and it seems like this is standard
pro forma language that can be used in ordinances going forward. So thank you.
I will be supporting because it does provide important clarification.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Any further
discussion on the amendment? Seeing none, all those in favor of amending
Bill 85, Draft 2, with the contents of Communication 518.3, please say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 85, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 518.3 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball –7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy –2.
Excused: None.
Vote on Motion to Mr. Inaba moved to suspend Council Rule 23 to waive the
Suspend Council holdover for the substantive amendment of Bill 85, Draft 2.
Rules: Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and carried by the
(Approved) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball –7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy –2.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: We are now back to the main motion, Bill 85, now Draft 3.
Let's see, I don't know who was first.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ladies first.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz, he's deferring to you.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Mr. Arai, you made a statement earlier about
being good with the draft that was recommended during Planning Commission.
And at Committee, there was the amendment to include five years to seek final
subdivision approval. That wasn't in the original draft that was reviewed by the
Planning Commission, but because we're at second reading, I want to confirm
that this is something that can be achieved by the applicant. Final subdivision
approval within five years.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MR. ARAI: Council Member Kierkiewicz, yes. The applicant, in his application,
anticipated he could accomplish the subdivision within three years. The Council
is offering five years. So he does believe he can accomplish it within that period.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay, thank you for stating that because I didn't support
the amendment. I'm going to be supporting this request because I think it's
simple and straightforward, and I think we can prescribe things as necessary. I
didn't think this was necessary, but I do support the request. So, will be
supporting this request for a rezone. Thank you. I yield.
MR. ARAI: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Anyone else?
Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: I will be supporting their request for the rezone. And I am
grateful to you, Council Member Inaba, for updating the amendment to clarify
and to bring all of our language into alignment and perpetuity. And with that I
yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you for that, Council Member Villegas. Council
Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, any ?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Mr. Arai reached out to me and
I appreciate that. And you questioned, "Hey, Matt, why'd you vote `no' on the
last round?" Simple answer. I looked over the document. I looked at the
surrounding zoning. By understanding the LUPAG (Land Use Pattern Allocation
Guide) and what we're shooting for in the County, and hearing from the Planning
Director at our first Committee hearing, my concern was I looked over this map
represented. Almost everything around this, except for this little block and a few
randoms, is Ag-3 or bigger. And so, stepping down to Ag-1, it just concerns me
that by doing that, we start creating infill and density beyond what was originally
planned, although the LUPAG, according to the commission meetings, was this
is upholding the LUPAG designation.
But I really do feel like we've got to step in somewhere and say our infrastructure
isn't ready. I see this in Puna a lot. We continue to allow infill. The density
increases but the infrastructure itself wasn't ready and isn't ready, and we're
having a hard time maintaining. So that's why I'm saying no. I'm just concerned
because I can see this little block developing of FA-1, Ag-l. And as that spreads,
all of a sudden all these lots start to put more and more pressure on the existing
infrastructure, and that's when the County is going to start to have problems. So
that's it in reality. Nothing wrong with what you guys did. I completely support
all the amendments in the ordinance, but I just can't say yes to growing the
density when we're not ready. That's my inner feelings. Yeah, if you have a
response, okay.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MR. ARAI: I appreciate that concern. We feel that the one-acre minimum lot
size—for what it is, the zoning is simply to accommodate the partition of two
existing homes onto two separate lots. It's really straightforward. But the zoning
is about land use pattern, so I understand your concern. The area is currently
designated for low-density residential uses, according to the General Plan. So
we're talking lots as small as 10,000 square feet or as small as 7,500 square feet if
it's sewered.
On the Puna side of Makalika Street are actually lands designated urban by the
State Land Use Commission. It's kind of disjointed from the rest of the urban
core of the City of Hilo, but nevertheless, there are urban lands right across the
street. So, consistent with the General Plan, the County, I believe, does see this
entire area transitioning into more urban type of uses regardless of how the zoning
looks now. It's about looking forward and how the area is going to transition.
There is one-acre zoned lands immediately adjacent to the west or mauka of this
project site. So this one-acre rezoning is not some anomaly in the area.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for that. I looked at the map and
I said, okay, we do have some RA-1's. We've got some Ag-1's, but it's kind of
clustered. And I'm looking at that cluster and going, "People are understanding
they can move to Ag-l." And if everyone does that, all of a sudden that's that
many more homes, that many more cars, that much more water, that much more
sewer, everything. That's the density and the infrastructure piece that's got to tie
together. That was my concern. And I totally hear you and I understand.
I'm going to say no again today just because I think it's important. We've got to
look at density and infrastructure. But thank you. Everything you did is good and
I appreciate that. Thank you, Chair, I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Council
Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. Is the applicant considering, with fair share
contribution, would they be giving money or would they be doing some other type
ofI notice that we give the options that they can participate with Parks, Fire,
Police. Do you know what their intention is for fair share?
MR. ARAI: As it currently stands, there is no fair share obligation. If the
applicant was simply to partition the two existing homes into two separate lots, if
they are somehow able to accomplish a third lot, at that point, a fair share would
be imposed on that one additional unit that's created. So if you read the
condition, it actually excludesI think it speaks to should additional homes be
constructed beyond like what's currently there, that's when the fair share kicks in.
MS. EVANS: I guess I don't see that. I'm looking at page 4. Oh, I see. Okay.
"The fair share contribution shall become due and payable prior to receipt of Final
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Subdivision Approval and shall be based on the number of additional residential
lots without existing dwellings." So, if they build a third home, at that time they
would do a fair share.
MR. ARAI: They would pay fair share upon subdivision of a lot that results in an
additional home site, I mean additional single-family dwelling.
MS. EVANS: The thing that is interesting to me—okay, it's going to be adjusted
annually based on the percentage change in the Honolulu Priceoh, that's good.
I'm glad that's there. It's interesting how I look at fair share to make sure that
there are contributions when things happen. Okay. I think that's good to point it
out. Thank you. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Any further discussion?
Seeing none, all those in favor of adopting Bill 85, Draft 2, as amended, at second
and final reading, please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 85: The motion to pass Bill 85, Draft 2, as amended to Draft 3,
Draft 3 on second and final reading was carried by the following
(Adopted) voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kierkiewicz, and Chair Kimball –5.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Lee Loy, and Villegas –4.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Arai, for being here.
MR. ARAI: Thank you very much. Happy holidays to all of you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Happy holidays.
Page 46
Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Bill 86: AMENDS SECTION 25-8-15 (HAMAKUA DISTRICT ZONE MAP),
ARTICLE 8, CHAPTER 25 (ZONING) OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983
(2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), BY CHANGING THE DISTRICT
CLASSIFICATION FROM FAMILY AGRICULTURAL–3 ACRES (FA-3a) TO
AGRICULTURAL–5 ACRES (A-5a) AT WAIMEA, HAMAKUA DISTRICT,
HAWAII, COVERED BY TAX MAP KEY: 4-7-007:048
(Applicant: Shawn and Stephanie Ching) (Area: 34.559 acres)
The Windward Planning Commission forwards its favorable recommendation for
this change of zone request, which would allow the applicant to subdivide the
property into six lots, each approximately five acres in size. The property is located
at 47-5211 Old Mamalahoa Highway, approximately half a mile southeast of its
intersection with Mamalahoa Road.
Reference: Comm. 519
Intr. by: Mr. Inaba(B/R)
First Reading: November 1, 2023
(Note: Comm. 519.2, from Council Member Holeka Goro Inaba dated
November 9, 2023, transmitting proposed amendments to Bill 86, was circulated.)
Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to pass Bill 86 on second and final
reading. Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada.
CHR. KIMBALL: Vice Chair Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. Mr. Fuke, if you'd like to come forward just so that
folks can understand, and you can confirm the discussion that we had on the
phone regarding, you know, initially the applicants represented that they would be
able to complete this rezoning by the end of 2028. But if you'd like to kind of
just share what their intentions were and perhaps just doing one parcel at a time.
(Note: At this time, Sidney Fuke, applicant's representative, came
forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. FUKE: Okay. Well, first of all, I'd like to for the record, my name is
Sidney Fuke, and I'm here representing my friends, Shawn and Stephanie Ching.
They would like to extend their apologies for not being here today. They're
attending their son's preschool Thanksgiving festivities, so hope you all
understand. I don't know whether the reference is to the proposed amendment,
but is it appropriate to talk about the proposed amendment now?
MR. INABA: We can put it on the floor then, if—okay, sure.
Motion to Amend: Mr. Inaba moved to amend Bill 86 with the contents of
Comm. 519.2. Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada.
Page 47
Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MR. INABA: Thank you. Just so that everyone knows, again, there in this
communication, Conditions L and M are similar to the other amendments that we
had that just match up the language contained in the rezoning bill with that of the
Hawaii County Code. And then Condition K specifies that ten years is the time
frame in which the applicant needs to get final subdivision approval. So,
Mr. Fuke,just their intentions moving forward.
MR. FUKE: Thank you very much, Council Member Inaba. I've had a chance to
discuss it with the applicants prior to this meeting because we knew that this is a
possibility. And their position is that in a perfect world, they'd rather have no
conditions, but we're not really living in a perfect world. They're in a position to
accept all of the other conditions and this condition as well. So they appreciated
your consideration in understanding that it's probably going to take more than
five years. So the ten years is really ideal. So they're prepared to accept that and
the balance of their condition.
I would like to make an additional request. If this amendment is accepted, that
the Council kind of waive the requirement for a holdover so that I don't have to
attend another meeting because I'm not going to have Mr. Arai with me to
accompany me. So I just would like to make that extra request. Thank you very
much.
MR. INABA: Sure, thank you. And, yes. So, in my discussion with Mr. Fuke,
although it was represented before the Windward Planning Commission that five
years was going to be adequate, they were thinking to do parcel and parcel at a
time. And final subdivision approval, in discussing with Corporation Counsel, is
when all of those parcels are created as represented. So we wanted to make sure
that there was adequate time so that's why the ten years is included here rather
than the five. So thank you for having that discussion and happy to take any
questions if there are any.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Vice Chair Inaba. So, on the amendment, starting
with Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Fuke,
for that and, Mr. Inaba, for your amendment and in keeping a persistent,
consistent approach towards requiringsorry, the words aren't coming right
nowa persistent, consistent approach to holding people up to their end of the
deal. That really is what it is. I appreciate that you're here this day. Open to the
idea this is an upzonesorry, a downzone, not a I'm spazzing right now. What
do you call this, Mr. Fuke? A downzone?
MR. FUKE: I'm sorry. I didn't quite understand the question.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This is a downzone, correct?
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MR. FUKE: Right, yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Correct terminology? Okay. I like that this
is downzoned. The applicants have been very good. They came in from Oahu,
from what I understand. So I'll be supporting the amendment today. Thank you.
MR. FUKE: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Council
Member Evans, you had your light on earlier. You're good now? Okay, great.
Anyone else? Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. Just in keeping consistency with my principles
around if we are making decisions about land use that is good in perpetuity. And
so I don't feel comfortable or feel there is a need to necessitate time specification,
especially because this is such a straightforward request. I appreciate the
intention, but I support the total request for the rezone. I just cannot support this
amendment. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Any further
discussion? All right, the motion on the floor is to amend Bill 86 with the
contents of Communication 519.2. All of those in favor,please say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 86 with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 519.2 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —6.
Noes: Council Member Kierkiewicz— 1.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Vote on Motion to Mr. Inaba moved to suspend Council Rule 23 to waive the
Suspend Council holdover for the substantive amendment of Bill 86.
Rules: Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and carried by the
(Approved) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Page 49
Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
CHR. KIMBALL: We are back to the main motion, Bill 86 for second and final
reading, as amended. Council Member Inaba.
MR. INABA: Thank you. I think we've had a lot of discussion. Thank you for
your support on this amendment, and thank you to the Chings for working with
us, and you as well, Mr. Fuke. I ask for everyone's support. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Vice Chair Inaba. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: I'm struck by the Council has really kind of been thinking about
today into the future. And because of that, we just approvedI approve and
support this amendment, because we are learning from the way we used to do
business and now the way we want to do business. And so, having said that, I'm
kind of surprised that we don't have a fair share contribution condition in this
piece of legislation, downzone or upzone.
Basically, what we're doing is we're saying we're moving into agreeing to
something that's going to be a subdivision. So the question is, if we're changing
the way we're doing things into the future, from now moving forward would it
behoove us to be thinking about fair share contributions anytime anyone comes in
front of the Council and says they want to build on our land?
CHR. KIMBALL: I believe that's directed to you.
MR. FUKE: Is that a question?
CHR. KIMBALL: I'm not sure if it's directed at you, but I also think we have the
folks from Planning on the line. So if the folks from Planning Department—
Deputy
epartmentDeputy Director Darrow, if perhaps you want to respond to Council
Member Evans' question, that would probably be more appropriate.
(Note: At this time, Planning Deputy Director Jeffrey Darrow came
forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. DARROW: Jeff Darrow, Planning Department. Typically in the past, we've
only applied fair share to lots smaller than five acres. Any lot above five acres
and it's consistent also with the affordable housing requirements. They do not
apply affordable housing requirements to properties five acres and above. So that
just has been standard practice for as long as I can recall.
MS. EVANS: Has there been any discussion about when we just change density,
no matter what the size? When you do density and you add, you're kind of
changing the makeup of a community. So I'm just kind of curious because we
areclearly, this Council, in my opinion, is taking a look at infrastructure.
Concurrency is kind of an underlying value, but when should we kick it in or not
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
kick it in? And if the standard practice is five acres or above, we never do fair
share, and that's been around a long time. Is it moving down to three acres, two
acres, one—are we moving that bar at all?
MR. DARROW: There has been, like even looking at the previous rezoning for
this particular property when it was zoned to FA three acres, it appears that the
Council did not apply fair share at that particular time as well. So, again,
typically it'sI haven't seen it applied normally, it's one-acre lots. There are
times I've seen it applied for three-acre lots but not consistently, but most
definitely for residential-type lots, smaller residential lots. But again, agriculture
five-acre and above, larger lots, we have not applied that.
MS. EVANS: Right, thank you. I'm just curious because we start seeing more of
these rezones and how do we apply it, you know, one to the next to the next.
MR. FUKE: Can I make a brief maybe like historical comment?
CHR. KIMBALL: Yeah, briefly.
MR. FUKE: Maybe about 25, 30 years ago, this same body, the County Council,
was considering the most equitable means to address fair share. They because
this was pursuant to a State-enabling law that I'm sure you're familiar with, being
with the House of Representatives, that it passed a law saying, essentially, the
counties are now authorized through their rezoning procedures to have a fair share
law. So there was a draft proposed and considered by the Council but it never
passed. And that was the most equitable means because it would have assessed
each new residential construction that was coming online.
So because that failed—and there was also a separate study done to determine
what would be, if you're going to have this fair share ordinance passed, what
would be the equitable amount to address Fire, Police, so on and so forth. It was a
specific study along those lines. And that study was then—because that
ordinance was never passed, and it's still kind of floating aroundI mean, it
could be easily resurrected—but throughout time, then, the County Council saw
fit that maybe we ought to just kind of tag those guys coming in for a zone change
because they're asking for something, so maybe we should just incorporate
portions of that study and put that in the ordinance. But then it kind of went all
over the map, like what it's going to assess, whether you're going to go in for
residential rezoning or ag rezoning.
And so, like what Jeff had kind of pointed out, you know, like where you had the
three-acre zoning, and so previously on this one here. So there was no fair share.
But along the way, somehow it morphed and I don't know when it morphed. So
when rezoning applications, whether it's in the Kaloko Mauka area, came in
through Ag-3, that kind of zoning, then you'd see a fair share assessment.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
So, at this point in time, this is kind of like more the Administration was utilizing
what the
CHR. KIMBALL: Sorry, I'm going to—we got the sense of it. There was a
proposal; never went through. So, Council Member Evans, there's potential for
some homework here. We potentially need some fair share Code language.
We'll just rein it back to the bill at hand, Bill 86.
MS. EVANS: Yeah, no, well, I'm glad I asked the question, and I'm glad you
gave me a quick point of history. And now there's some homework to do, but
thank you. I appreciate it. I yield.
MR. FUKE: Thank you, Council Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Fuke. Anyone else? I would just
make one final point, Council Member Evans. You may have noticed there have
been times that were revisiting, extending time elements of rezoning ordinances
or whatever and we have to go in and adjust existing fair share. So something to
consider, if you're going to think about this as a project, is making those formulas
rather than strict calculations that have to then be amended at a later point. With
that, we will move forward with the vote on Bill 86, as amended with the contents
of Communication 519.2. All those in favor,please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 86: The motion to pass Bill 86, as amended to Draft 2, on
Draft 2 second and final reading was carried by the following voice
(Adopted) vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Mr. Fuke, for being here.
MR. FUKE: Thank you very much, Chair. Happy holidays, all.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you.
Recess: At 11:58 a.m., the Chair called for a recess.
Reconvene: The meeting reconvened at 12:16 p.m.
Return to Order The Chair directed the Council to return to the order of business.
of Business:
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Res. 329-23: AUTHORIZES THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO ANNUAL FLOOD-
MONITORING AGREEMENTS WITH THE UNITED STATES GEOLOGICAL
SURVEY
Authorizes the Mayor to enter into five-year agreements to fund a Flood-
Monitoring Program to collect long-term data related to annual peak streamflow,
which would be used to map flood-prone areas for land use management and for the
planning and design of flood management systems.
Reference: Comm. 558
Intr. by: Ms. Evans (B/R)
Approve: GOEAC-81
Motion to Approve: Mr. Inaba moved to adopt Res. 329-23 and Governmental
Operations and External Affairs Committee Report No. 81.
Seconded by Ms. Villegas.
CHR. KIMBALL: Any discussion? Go ahead, Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: I just want to say a big thank you to DPW (Department of
Public Works) for this and Keone Thompson. As we continue to experience more
frequent flooding circumstances on parts of the island that don't usually see
flooding, I'm really excited to see this mapping coming together and pulling us
up-to-date for the monitoring of these potential flood areas. So thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. Anyone else? Yeah,
Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This came up in Committee level. I just
wanted to check in with members from the department. This is islandwide,
correct?
(Note: At this time, Public Works Director Stephen Pause came forward
to address the members of the Council.)
MR. PAUSE: Aloha. Steve Pause, Public Works. Yes. Presently, there are five
stations, and there are four other locations that are monitored islandwide. That is
correct.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. You're the Director. I'm passing this
along to you—we said this at Committee level, too—Puna has flooding but we
don't have rivers and streams. That's problematic because we don't get
monitored. So I've been watching this kind of track. So I don't know how to
express. I've talked to Army Corps. I did a resolution when I first started at
Council just to kind of put this out there, and I'm having a hard time getting the
grasp that we need to understand the problem. Because when it floods in Puna, it
starts on the bottom of Mauna Loa, which goes through all of our major
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
subdivisions; crosses the highway; closed us in, I would say, about 2018 or 2019;
closed the highway down, (Highway) 130, to all of Pahoa, Ainaloa, the whole
entire area cut off. And then it floods down into the, what you say, eastern, kind
of northeastern side of Paradise Park.
But because we don't have rivers and streams, there's nothing to monitor. So
how do we ensure that we're looking at that flooding going on that area, and can
we add that into the overall look of this study?
MR. PAUSE: Thank you for that question. And in anticipation of that question, I
believe Mr. Thompson was here the last time and I was not, but we had
conversations this week, and I asked him what are the locations on-island should
we be thinking to do this. And he listed off three or four more locations. I know
one of them was the area you're talking about down by just before HPP
(Hawaiian Paradise Park). There's that are that floods. And there were a couple
others on-island.
So, as a takeaway, we will identify those locations and look to potentially add on
to this with USGS (United States Geological Survey). This is a really good
program. Like I said, we've got five stations, stream gauges, and there's four
other weather monitoring stations. You can actually go online to the USGS.
Oahu is like 40. Maui's got 22. Kaua`i's got 17.
I don't know what the hesitancy has been in the past to expand that, but clearly, as
you pointed out, there are other locations that could clearly help us do this level of
monitoring. And, as Council Member Villegas mentioned, especially in light of
climate change, in light of just looking at our drainage requirements and those
sorts of things. I am committed to expanding this, and at another time, I'll be
happy to get back to you the prime locations.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Just for your information, there was a draft
Puna flood study or a Puna flood study that was done. I have it in my office on
the wall. I had to print it out. It shows floods, flood-prone areas, and it highlights
each really unique area from mauka to makai. If you don't have that, I'll help you
get it. If you can find it, if you have it, great.
MR. PAUSE: I'm aware of the study. I haven't looked at it in great detail. I do
know that there wereI was told that there were some issues with the work that
was done. But I know there's a couple of locations, especially as we start looking
at potential evacuation routes and things like that that will require us to have a
better understanding of floodplains if we end up putting in roads and things like
that. So I'm aware of that study, and I'll follow up with that.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Probably the best map I've seen of the flood
areas without actually having rivers and streams. We have gullies that fill with
water when we flood, but there's no river there. So it's kind of that
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MR. PAUSE: Understood.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Hard to track but extremely important.
Thank you, Mr. Pause.
MR. PAUSE: Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Anyone else? Seeing none, I'll
just note that, Director Pause, you have been called "brilliant"twice in two days.
So pretty soon people are going to want to have Director Pause status, I'm just
going to say. All right, all those in favor please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 329-23: The motion to adopt Res. 329-23 and Governmental
(Adopted) Operations and External Affairs Committee Report No. 81
was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the
of Business: following items were taken out of order:
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public.
PUBLIC ON
BILL 83 The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called by
(COMM. 498): the Chair:
Claudia Rohr: Comment.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Bill 83: AMENDS CHAPTER 24, ARTICLE 10, DIVISION 5, SECTION 24-280,
SCHEDULE 28, AND SECTION 24-281, SCHEDULE 29 OF THE HAWAII
COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION), RELATING TO NO PARKING AT
ANYTIME UPON CERTAIN STREETS OR PORTION OF STREETS AND
PARKING PROHIBITED DURING CERTAIN HOURS ON CERTAIN
STREETS
Amends and adds provisions to prohibit parking at all times and adds provisions to
prohibit parking between the hours of 8:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. for certain portions
of Alii Drive that front Kahalu`u Beach Park.
Reference: Comm. 498
Intr. by: Ms. Lee Loy (B/R)
Approve: PCIA-2
Postponed: November 1, 2023
(Note: There is a motion by Ms. Lee Loy, seconded by Ms. Galimba, to pass
Bill 83 on first reading.)
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. There is already a motion on the floor. I'll start
with Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you. And thank you for postponing this in my absence
during the last first reading opportunity at Council. And I'm told that you were
all provided with a map in your prior—yeah, so, there have been a few, actually
one pushback that I've heard from a constituent and was able to have lengthy,
great discussions of which we can agree to disagree. But I continue to support
this. The signs are actually in place and have been being enforced, and has helped
to mitigate some of the challenges in that area.
And as we move forward and continue to experience the growth and traffic on
Alii Drive, I look forward to continued support from the traffic department in
DPW in creating basically a parking plan for the makai side of Alii Drive. The
parking spots right along our guardrails where we have our very few beach parks
along Alii Drive are really priceless resources. So we want to ensure that they
are available to the community and they don't get monopolized by either
commercial enterprise or, unfortunately, sometimes the unhoused in their cars will
post up there and cause some issues with public access. So I ask for my
colleagues' continued support in passing this bill through first reading today. I
yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. Vice Chair Inaba.
MR. INABA: I just want to point out, in looking at the maps, it may seem that
there are a lot of areas that the bill is prohibiting parking at, but when you look at
the actual street, parking really isn't available. There's no shoulder on there
anyway. So, in the areas that parking is available, those areas have those
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
nighttime restrictions, and that's to ensure that the area is clear. And then there is
still parking available a little to the south of the Kahalu`u Beach Park entrance.
So I just want to point that out for the community in the event you are trying to
access the shore at Kahalu`u. Mahalo.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Inaba. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. The department? Mr. Pause? Director Pause is here
from the department, isn't he?
(Note: At this time, Public Works Director Stephen Pause came forward
to address the members of the Council.)
MS. EVANS: Thank you. Just alleviate any concern about this first and second
reading. I understand the first reading and why it was postponed, to make sure
that the representatives from West Hawaii could be here for this discussion. But
I'm just curious, backing up, when you're looking at certain streets that need to
have more finetuning where the parking is and any problems with parking, what is
your process for the department? So, someone comes to you and says, "This area
has been " like is it the Police Department that generates it? How do you kind
of kickstart it, I guess, so that you have this your department analyze it?
MR. PAUSE: Hi. Steve Pause, Public Works. I'm trying to recall this one, but it
was a combined effort. There were a number of requests and complaints that
came in about this particular area, and I did have direct discussions with the
Police Department. I also had direct discussions with Parks and Rec.
(Recreation). And then our Traffic folks went out and did an assessment, which
the area was well known to them to begin with,just in terms of safety, on a curve.
I think someone pointed out the shoulders and activities in the shoulders. So it
was really a combined effort to do an evaluation of what the situation is and to
come up with something that meets the desires and the requirements and the need
for safe access and safe parking.
And then obviously there's also the overarching issue around commercial
activities being done in a County right-of-way. I'm not going to skirt the legal
definition of that here, but it's a concern because it generates traffic and people
who are forced to walk in the road instead of on the shoulders. So there's a whole
bunch that goes into it. But I'd say, in this particular case, the number of
stakeholders, they were all engaged. And the support for this action was
unanimous.
MS. EVANS: Thank you for that. I'm in strong support of this. Thank you, I
yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Council Member
Kagiwada.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. I'm not familiar; I can't picture exactly
where this is. What are the commercial activities that are happening or were
happening in this area?
MR. PAUSE: I believe there's a surf school that operates.
MS. KAGIWADA: The surf school. Okay, I see. Okay. Is that—?
MR. PAUSE: And according to Parks and Rec., there are other commercial
activities that occur in the evening hours.
MS. KAGIWADA: Some of this is going to be taken care of by the lottery for the
surf school. Is that correct?
MS. VILLEGAS: A different issue, but yes, the hope is that it will also
(inaudible).
MS. KAGIWADA: Reduce some of the commercial activity, okay.
MS. VILLEGAS: (Inaudible) safety issue here anyway.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay, all right. Just trying to understand exactly what's
going on there. And then I hadn't heard that there was a major issue with folks
maybe staying in their car overnight or things like that, but you're saying that that
was also one of the issues that you were addressing.
MR. PAUSE: Yes, that's correct.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. And when do you think you'll have additional
parking available for this area?
MR. PAUSE: I'm not sure about that. I don't know what else is available that
we're working on. Obviously, Parks and Rec. has parking in their other available
locations, but we're not presently working on any plans to expand parking there.
At least Public Works is not.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Chair, if I could have a little leeway, may I ask
since Council Member Villegas mentioned parking on the makai side, may I ask if
there's a plan for that?
CHR. KIMBALL: Is that your last question?
MS. KAGIWADA: Yes.
CHR. KIMBALL: Why don't you just ask the question and yield, and then I'll
ask Council Member Villegas to actually respond to your previous question.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Just wondering what the—if we can get a little more
details on that plan for additional parking. I yield.
MS. VILLEGAS: Sure.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. And, Council
Member Villegas, if I can ask you the previous question that Council
Member Kagiwada asked, if you could say that into the mic so it's on the record
regarding the lottery and it being a different issue, that'd be great.
MS. VILLEGAS: Sure. Thank you. The issues at Kahalu`u are a combination
and a collaboration of issues that nobody really wants to collaborate with
apparently. That's not saying it right. There's a challenge that comes from a lot
of different contributing factors.
When it comes to the lottery for the surf schools and the things that have been
happening, historically at Kahalu`u there have been continued requests for the
rules that were put together by DLNR. It's an interesting area because you have
Parks and Rec., you have DLNR that manages, and DOBOR (Division of Boating
and Ocean Recreation) that manages in the ocean, and then you have County
roads that have Alii Drive. And so there has become, unfortunately, too many
surf schools, too many people in the water, causing health and safety issues, not
only to those people but also to the fragile ecosystems there and the reef.
And then you have people on the side of the road going in and out of big cars onto
Alii Drive on a severe enough turn that there have been numerous health and
safety issues that have been expressed by Community Policing, Parks and Rec.,
and DOBOR for decades now.
So what we're looking at on November 17'', which is Friday, is the final
culmination and coming to fruition of the lottery for the number of surf schools
that will be able to operate in the bay, specifically where in the bay and whatnot.
So I hope that answers that question. So that's where some of that will be
mitigated. There have been, for a long time, signs that say, "No Commercial
Activity on Alii Drive"right there, and they have been ignored and completely
disregarded by a number of the schools there. So that was another challenge.
When it comes to, and I'm not sure if you've seen this map, but I'm happy to
share it with you, but what is shown in this map are the number of signs already in
existence. And the only signs that have been added are signs that transition
certain areas to say, "No Parking Between the Hours of 8 p.m. and 5 a.m." And
those hours correspond with the hours of Kahalu`u Beach Park.
As mentioned before, these are areas there really aren't wide enough roadside
areas for very safe parking anyway, and there are other areas that if somebody
really wanted to go to Kahalu`u in the middle of the night, they could park in
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
other places. They may have to walk or ride a bike there, but the access is not
prohibited. It's just that the elimination of overnight parking in these areas
provides for health and safety.
And of the grand scheme of issues that we've been navigating, this was the best
solution with the highest reward, eliminating the greatest amount of risk. And so,
as you well know, we can't always get to perfect. But after working with DPW,
Traffic, Community Policing, DOBOR, Parks and Rec., and myself, this has
become the best solution we could come to for this area. And with that I yield.
MR. PAUSE: If I may just add, until the last two days, I don't get very many
compliments but I did get a phone call the day the signs went up. Is it
Sergeant Hardie? Heartfelt thanks for being able to give them something that
they can work with from an enforcement standpoint. That meant a lot that the
Police took notice that quickly and were on board. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Director. I'll come back to you, Council
Member Kagiwada. Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I appreciate what's in front of us because
I've done this in Kalapana. And it began with a traffic study, Traffic Division
report, and then there was a period of waiting and thenI mean, are those
installed now, the signs in Kalapana?
MR. PAUSE: I believe they are, yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So I understand there's a length of
time it takes to get to the point or even have a piece of paper in front of you that
has a map that shows you where the signs go. But, ultimately, it came down to
enforceability, which is what you just said, Director. Because without the signs
up, the Police Department can't enforce and they can't provide a citation, not that
we want to go hand out thousands of tickets to the community. There's always a
warning period and a learning period, and then there's an enforce period. But
without the signs, they can't do anything. And so it's being proactive as a
Council Member for your district and making sure that we're providing safety
rails and guardrails for our community. (Inaudible) a plan. I like that. Yeah, I
just appreciate what was done because it takes a lot to get to where we are right
now and to have this document in front of us. So thank you. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Sorry, my question was there was a mention of parking being
looked at on the makai side of the road, and I was just trying to get some
clarification about what is being done around that. Is there additional parking
being looked at, and if so, do we have any estimate on when that will happen?
Thank you.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Council
Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yes. Okay, to clarify—I apologize for not articulating this as
clearly as I had intendeda number of years ago, Highways came back with an
overall plan for the parking on the mauka side of Alii Drive. So they took all of
Alii Drive and inventoried it, essentially, and looked at where should be "No
Parking Anytime" signs based on the width of the side of the road. Thankfully,
we've got bike lanes. I think that was around the same time. But basically just
looking at the whole road and coming up with where parking should be allowed
for health and safety reasons, and where there shouldn't be, or if there's needs for
time frames or whatnot.
That has not happened yet for the makai side of Alii Drive, which has left us kind
of putting together piecemeals—very grateful for them—for certain areas that
have caused a little more challenges based on working with all these different
departments. So I don't have, and I don't know that DPW or Traffic has, that
schedule, but just to clarify, it's not about if parking has to be taken from here,
providing from there; it's about really looking at the health and safety of
pedestrians, cyclists, those in their cars getting in and out, and really looking at a
stretch of coastline that is heavily utilized. It is the only outlet for a number of
people during tsunami or any other kind of crisis. And so really having a more
organized, thoughtful, and planned out where and how people should be able to
park on that ocean fronting property the road that fronts the ocean. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. Anyone else? All
right, seeing none, all those in favor of adopting Bill 83 at first reading,please say
Ic aye.
Vote on Bill 83: The motion to pass Bill 83 on first reading and adopt Policy
(Approved) Committee on Infrastructure and Assets Committee Report
No. 2 was carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball –7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy –2.
Excused: None.
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public.
PUBLIC ON
BILL 95 The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called by
(DRAFT 2) the Chair:
(COMM. 543.2 :
Page 61
Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Claudia Rohr: Comment.
Bill 95: AMENDS CHAPTER 24, ARTICLE 10, DIVISION 5, SECTION 24-280,
(Draft 2) SCHEDULE 28, OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION),
RELATING TO NO PARKING AT ANYTIME UPON CERTAIN STREETS OR
PORTIONS OF STREETS
Adds a provision to prohibit parking alongside a section of Old Mamalahoa
Highway that fronts the De Luz Quarry adjacent to an exposed lava tube.
Reference: Comm. 543.2
Intr. by: Ms. Lee Loy (B/R)
Approve: PCIA-3
Vote on Bill 95: Mr. Inaba moved to pass Bill 95, Draft 2, on first reading
Draft 2 and adopt Policy Committee on Infrastructure and Assets
(Approved) Committee Report No. 3. Seconded by Ms. Villegas and
carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Bill 66: AMENDS CHAPTER 5, ARTICLE 4, SECTION 5-4-3, OF THE HAWAII
(Draft 2) COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO
INSTALLATION OF PHOTOVOLTAIC SYSTEMS
Amends Subsection (f)by requiring a professional electrical engineer licensed in
the State of Hawaii to prepare, design, and stamp electrical design drawings and
specifications for residential photovoltaic systems if the system exceeds
10 kilowatts.
Reference: Comm. 435.2
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder
First Reading: October 4, 2023
Postponed: October 18, 2023
(Note: There is a motion by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, seconded by Ms. Villegas,
to pass Bill 66, Draft 2, on second and final reading.)
(Note: Communication 435.7, from Council Member Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder
dated November 6, 2023, transmitting information relating to Bill 66, Draft 2, was
circulated. Communications 435.8 through 435.12, transmitting proposed
amendments to Bill 66, Draft 2, were also circulated.)
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
CHR. KIMBALL: Before you make the motion, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, I'm
just going to remind everyone about the recommendations with respect to
decorum earlier in the conversations today. We have meandered a bit on this bill
in the past. And also, since I'll be introducing an amendment on this item, I'm
going to pass the gavel to Vice Chair Inaba.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Chair Kimball relinquished the chair to Acting
Chair Inaba.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, you have the floor.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much. I'm going to start
back to the beginning on this one because it's been a while being postponed. I
won't bore you but I do want to set a base level of understanding here. I thought
about the way we introduce bills and the way that I introduce bills. And I
apologize to this body because I have a lot of experience in this field. And so I
bring something forward and I almost expect everyone to be at that level. I can't
be at your level for other things, and you may not be at the same level I'm at with
my understanding. So I figure to kind of stay baseline and just walk through a PV
(photovoltaic) system.
PV system in Hawaii. The first step, if one of you wanted to buy one or someone
in the public wants to buy one, they've got to approach a contractor who has a
license to do business in the State of Hawaii as an electrical contractor. Any
good contractor is going to go with this person who wants to buy a system.
They're going to go to HELCO (Hawai`i Electric Light Company, Inc.), Step 1,
because they need to get HELCO's approval for that system. If you don't have
HELCO's approval to install a system, then you shouldn't be putting it on.
And there were some very unsavvy business people in the past decade who would
put PV systems on without HELCO approval. And when the system was
finished, they couldn't actually turn it on because HELCO never gave them
approval to start and wouldn't turn the system on and energize. That was
extremely problematic. So HELCO is the No. 1 step. That agreement with
HELCO to provide you space on their grade for your PV system, Step 1.
HELCO then does a very simple review of the system as a whole from the
company that is providing it to them, the electrical contractor. And with that
approval or denial, a customer can then move forward with the electrical
contractor to begin the permitting. Permitting goes through the County, a
completely separate, different agency, through our EPIC (Electronic Processing
and Information Center) system, now that we've been putting it in EPIC.
The County reviews that permit and then approves or denies the permit back to
the customer and the contractor. The contractor can then proceed with building
the system. Upon being built, the County would come back and inspect the
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system, using our County inspectors, many of whom I've interacted with
frequently. Upon approval, the utility is notified. And upon very simple approval
from the utility, because they already know what's coming in from the contractor
for this specific TMK tied to a meter, the utility would energize the system as
long as everything's in good shape. So that's the real basic backbone to how a
PV system gets from a customer wanting one to how it's on your roof and turned
on with the utility.
There's some important aspects of that. The utility does not inspect PV systems,
and I'm calling that out because it was stated in a previous meeting by someone.
It's important to have the baseline. They don't inspect PV systems. And I had to
go back. The comment was made and I had to go back and revisit. In your
folder, if you look at Communication 435.9—and I couldn't answer this at the
time or speak to it—but in this memo from the utility, they're confirming in
writing on letterhead that they do not perform any inspections or witness
verification tests for solar photovoltaic systems less than 30 kW (kilowatts) in
size.
This applies to all service territories including Oahu, Maui County, and Hawaii
County. Inspections to check for code compliance—NEC (National Electrical
Code), NESC (National Electrical Safety Code)—are left to the respective
counties. That's incredibly important because the counties are the AHJ, the
authority having jurisdiction. We are the ones who approve a permit, issue a
permit, check the permit, and then inspect it to make sure it was done to the
drawings submitted to the County, and that the work was done by a contractor and
done correctly. These are your safety checks. That's good base information for
you to have as well.
I'm going to go back because we touched on this a little bit, and there were some
interesting comments that this bill is out of alignment. So I provided you the
county codes from Oahu, from Maui, and Kauai in your communication packet,
Communication 435.7. And if one was to have read this beforeChair, latitude
please?
ACTING CHR. INABA: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, if you are going to make any
motions for amendments, it needs to be done now or I'm going to have to go on.
I'll give you 30 seconds just to point us in the right direction, but we need to
move.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, thank you. Within 435.7, you have
three different sets of county codesHonolulu, Maui, and Oahu—each one
having a specific section that touches on what I brought forward, which is that an
engineer is not required to stamp drawings less than 30 kilovolt-amperes;
kilovolt-ampere being a watt, so kilowatts. That's Honolulu. Kauai is at 45.
Anything less than 45 kVA (kilovolt-amps) or kW does not require an engineer's
stamp. And then for Maui, again 30 kW not requiring an engineer's stamp.
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This bill was brought forward as 30 kW. It was requested by the department to be
watered down to 10, and that's what you have in front of you today. That is your
baseline from which we can begin this conversation. Thank you, Chair.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Further discussion? There are amendments
in our pinkie (folders)today, and so if anybody wants to take those up. Council
Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Council Member Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder, for the additional background information and a little bit broader-
brush framing the conversation. As I am apt to do after our last hearings and then
following additional conversations with the Director and the department, I did try
to come up with an amendment, which is contained in Communication 435.8.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kimball moved to amend Bill 66, Draft 2, with the
contents of Comm. 435.8. Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. So just trying to keep it real simple, but
responding to some of the comments made by the body as well as my
understanding of the concerns with respect to the department and the Building
Division. And so what this amendment proposes is that the word"new"be put in
front of the "residential installations greater than 10 kilowatts." So any new
installations that are less than 10 kilowatts would not require a PE (professional
engineer) stamp, a professional engineering stamp.
And then any existing photovoltaic systems, if there were additions, that would be
another scenario that would require a stamp. So it's addressing, to some extent,
that concern of adding on pieces that would be maybe less than 10 kW
individually. But then, more importantly, in the conversation that I had with the
Director and the department, and maybe it would be best to bring one of you
forward to kind of discuss that concern about if you're adding to an existing
system, there's some additional things that need to be looked at that wouldn't
necessarily be relevant when you're dealing with a brand new system. So maybe
if you can speak to that a little bit, Director Pause, and then I'm happy to yield the
floor for conversation. I'm not sure I got this right, but this was my attempt to
find some middle-ground language here. Thanks.
(Note: At this time, Public Works Director Stephen Pause came forward
to address the members of the Council.)
MR. PAUSE: Thank you. Steve Pause, Public Works. Yeah, we had some
discussions just to back up for a little bit. I did want to just address one thing.
We, the department, arrived at a number of 10 kilowatts based on comfort. You
made the statement it was watered down. I don't see it quite like that. We went
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to our inspectors. We went to our senior staff. We went to our electrical
engineer. And I think we've provided in the past the basis for the 10, which isI
simply call it the 80-20 rule, but it may actually be the 85-15 rule that
85 percent of the applications that come in are for residential applications that are
less than 10 kilowatts.
So I'm aware that the counties of Maui and Kauai and City and County have
different criteria and different requirements. But I also remember one of our
electrical supervisors—Gary—making a statement that, "Yeah, we're
comfortable. Let's try this." And I think the mindset within the department is
"Ten is a good place to start. Is there an opportunity to go to 15, to 20, up to 30 in
the future? Yes, but this is actually a really good place to start."
The second item was, and this speaks to the amendment, again going through
discussions within our department, and then I actually reached out to a PV
contractor/installer, if you will, and asked them some similar questions. The
components for systems that are fairly, I guess people like to say, "plug and play."
However, the complexity of looking at a system that's installed, and maybe even
adding a battery to it or putting in a parallel system, "I've got 20 panels on my
house going to an inverter, and I want to put in another 20 to another inverter and
connect it to the same bus bar and, you know, tie it into my 100 amps service or
whatever I have," it's our feeling that something like that should fall under a
professional engineer's stamp just because it's not quite as simple as plugging in
like-like components.
The folks that I talked to said there is sometimes—well, sometimes you need to
upsize wiring. Somebody needs to look at the wiring. Is it an older house? Does
it have a 100-amp box? Is that an 80-amp box? Does it have fuses? The general
consensus within our department was, to feel truly comfortable with 10 kilowatts,
brand new installation, fine. Any, and I think your statement said "any
additions," I guess I'd go one step further and say any additions or modifications
to any existing system, we would like to see a professional engineer's stamp. So
that's kind of where we've come around on this issue.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. I'll just summarize real quickly again on the
amendment. With the way this is worded new system, no stamp if it's under
10 kV (kilovolt) if you've got a system already existing and it's 3 and you're
going to do another 3 kW, then you're going to need a stamp even though it's
still, in total, under 10. And I guess what struck me in my conversation with
Director Pause and the Building Division folks was there's so many sort of
unusual scenarios out there that it just seems logical to try it out and say, "Okay, if
it's a modification or if it's an addition to an existing system, we want that PE
stamp."
My dad was a bit of an amateur engineer; that's probably an insulting statement.
But he tried to do our home PV system, right. And if that's a scenario, I definitely
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would want an actual engineer to look at it. But that's what we're trying to get at
here. There's just a lot of different potential scenarios when we're adding to an
existing system, depending on when they were created. I know that there are
other amendments that speak to this, but introduced by Council
Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. But that's what I've got to propose at this point.
Thank you, I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Just a reminder we're on
Communication 435.8. There's seven words that are being proposed to be added,
so if we can focus on just this simple amendment. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Okay. I'm focused on the language "additions to existing
residential photovoltaic systems." So I guess I'm kind of confused here because I
think if someone wants to add additions, would they be required to get an
electrical permit? Now that's different than this language that says you have to
have a professional engineer design and stamp it. So I'm confused what's
required for electrical permit versus this, which is saying you need because, my
impression is we have qualified people to go out under electrical permits and
doing inspections. So why can't they inspect exactly what you were saying, how
it gets connected to the—how do the two wires get connected? Because, you're
going to have an inspection anyway. Aren't they going to get an electrical permit
anyway?
MR. PAUSE: Let me try to unravel that.
MS. EVANS: Okay.
MR. PAUSE: Yes. Everything we're talking about requires an electrical permit.
And we have inspectors that will go out and inspect the work, that it was done to
plan and to Code. When plans are submitted, they're reviewed. And when those
plans are submitted and they're stamped by a licensed electrical engineer, it adds
one additional level of making sure it's right and to Code.
So our inspectors are qualified. They're either master electricians or journeyman
electricians, but they're qualified to go out. But their job is to inspect to the plans.
And, yes, sometimes things get missed on plans and they find something, and they
work with the contractor to make those amendments or changes. But what we're
talking about is providing a good set of plans to the inspector so that when he
goes out, he can inspect. That's his job, inspect what was installed to the plan.
Where we feel most comfortable and the Building electrical inspectors are most
comfortable is to be going out in the field with a set of plans that had been
stamped by a licensed professional engineer.
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MS. EVANS: Okay. But it is a requirement when people ask for an electrical
permit, to give them a plan. The only difference is that plan may not have a
stamp on it.
MR. PAUSE: That's correct. What we're talking about is for a brand new
installation. If someone comes in with a set of plans, and that installation is for a
system that's 10 kilowatts or less, it will not have to be stamped by a licensed
electrical engineer.
MS. EVANS: Well, I believe the processI think the process, I have confidence
that you have hired capable people. I believe that when people submit their
permit, they do have to give you a plan, and I just don't support this amendment.
Thank you, I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Council Member
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Pause, the first part,
new residential installations greater than 10 kW, that's basically what we had in
front of us in the beginning. This really started out as a very simple, extremely
simple, amendment, yeah. It was like five words, six words. Sorry, not
amendment but a bill.
This next section is problematic, and I'm going to ask you some questions to see
if I can help elucidate why. I'm going to give a metaphor first. If you had a plug
in your house, do you call an engineer to stamp off on a contractor's work?
MR. PAUSE: No.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No? Good. So my metaphor is simple.
This language is stating any additions to existing residential PV systems. That's
any addition. Define "addition"for me in your words. There's not a definition
for "addition,"but define it in your thoughts, being that this came with
collaboration between you and the maker, what the word "addition"means to you
folks in this sense, in this context.
MR. PAUSE: I think the intent was that you have an existing system, and you are
going to make additions or changes to that existing system. You might add a
battery. You might add more panels. You might add another inverter. Anything
associated with installing additional PV equipment on a residence that has a
system currently functioning.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, so any addition. I add one panel,
engineer stamp. I remove and replace inverter, engineer stamp. That one's
questionable. There's another part of the Code that touched on that, but I'm
trying to make a point here. Anything now requires an engineer stamp. Small
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system, 3 kW, 6 panels, 10 panels. I add 2 panels to fulfill the system I put in
20 years ago, engineer stamp. What changes on the system? Because if I just
touch the PV panels, what changes on the system?
MR. PAUSE: You're getting into levels of granularity here
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I am.
MR. PAUSE: And I can appreciate that.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
MR. PAUSE: And your six words are now going to become six paragraphs, quite
frankly. If you want to start putting in exclusions, it could be done. But I think
again, I'll speak to our folks and they're the experts. And the level of comfort
associated with doing modifications on a house that has an existing system, they
said, "We would like to see a stamp," and I support that. And quite frankly, the
people that I reached out to asked me, "Why wouldn't you want a stamp on every
set of plans," okay, and I can't answer that question. We're here. We've
discussed 10 kilowatts, something that you've expressed would be a good thing
for the community. I think you've heard me say I'm all on board for things that
are good for the community. But within this particular discussion, our limit is 10.
We're on board up to 10.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I hear you. But again, back to that. This
problematic section is additions to existing residential systems. It doesn't call out
anything more than additions. There's no definition. And I'm not trying to make
this—my job is simplicity in language so the end user, people who adhere to these
codes, can go, "Yeah, that makes sense. I get it. It's easy." This means anything.
And while I understand your point, I'm not seeing it. Because, we're allowing no
stamp for new systems less than 10. But this could be a tiny system that changes
a panel and we're saying you've got to have an engineer's stamp. That's
problematic because a system what is a definition of a system? Well, how do
we look at a PV system? This is important.
MR. PAUSE: How do I look at—well, first of all,you have the expertise and I
don't
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: But you're the Director.
MR. PAUSE: But it's a set of a bunch of panels that are connected to a roof or
they're ground-mounted. Wiring connects to an inverter. Maybe a battery
connects to the panel within the house. Maybe they're off grid. Maybe it
connects back to the grid. So that's a photovoltaic system that generates
electricity.
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MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay and when we look at that, there's a
specific number we use to gauge the size of the system. It's not the panels. What
is it?
ACTING CHR. INABA: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, your concern is with the
word "additions" here, so if there's more questions specific to "additions," it's not
necessarily modifications. The word is "additions," so I want us to stay focused
on that. And I think everyone has their thoughts on this amendment.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. So, Mr. Pause,
"additions"being in relation to the kW of the system, we look at the main play
rating of the inverter. That is the value, correct? That's what defines the size of
the system.
MR. PAUSE: That's my understanding.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This bill says anything you touch on that
system. I can add 20 panels to an inverter. And if it can't handle it, it clips it, and
there's no extra output from that system. So this language is problematic because
we're saying you can't do anything without an engineer stamp. We're going to
allow it for systems less than 10 kW, but we want you to bring in an engineer's
stamped plans, but it doesn't even affect the output of the system. That, to me, is
an issue. We're allowing one but not the other, and we're creating more
bureaucracy and more issues and keeping the cost high for something that does
and creates sustainable energy for our community.
MR. PAUSE: You brought that up a few times. I think in a previous meeting, we
talked about a professional engineer stamp costing a thousand dollars. Maybe I
would argue with you and it's probably like $500. I don't think that the cost of a
professional engineer stamping a set of drawings that makes the inspector more
comfortable when he goes out in the field is necessarily a cost driver when it
comes to these systems.
Having said that, the systems that we're talking about, the additions, the
modifications, in contrast to your "I'm adding five panels or three panels, and the
inverter is sized for that,"what about the 20-year-old system that has had wiring
eroding on it, and I want to now go out and hang a Tesla wall battery? I, as a
person who owns that house, would want to have a licensed engineer to come out
and check it out, and make sure that everything that I plug in that's brand new is
going to work with the system that's been there for 15 or 20 years. You can look
at it both ways. I don't think you're wrong, and we could clearly add more
language and get more granular. On the other hand, here I am.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I don't want to do that. I think we've got to
remember to, is these jobs are being done by licensed electrical contractors who
bear the liability if there is a problem.
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MR. PAUSE: Understood. And they go out and they presumably say we cannot
connect this to this existing panel because they have to change that out, now their
licenses are on the line. I get it. It's an effort of many people. I don't disagree.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Chair, I yield for now. Thank you,
Mr. Pause.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Wow. I learned a lot about electrical and PV in navigating this
process. I've talked to a number of different people, including a longtime friend
who works for HELLO. Thank you for bringing forward the documentation to
clarify some of what I don't think were intentional misstatements that may have
led to deepening some misunderstandings on how things happen elsewhere.
When I look back at the original form of Bill 66, and it was literally five words
that were included, it appears to me that, prior to this, all PV systems that are put
in required the stamp of an electrical engineer. Correct?
MR. PAUSE: That's correct.
MS. VILLEGAS: Okay.
MR. PAUSE: For the County of Hawaii.
MS. VILLEGAS: For the County of Hawaii, yes. We know now that the other
municipalities, the other counties, have this has existed the change has existed
in their laws prior to this. So setting precedent, creating a standard that seems to
have been adopted statewide, and they've had no safety or health issues that we're
aware of related to any circumstances that have caused direct threat to harm for
anyone in those communities, Kauai going up to 45.
So I just want to to me, in my history of sitting here serving in this role, those
have been some of the parameters that we have been brought and that have
been—we've been educated about that have provided the means for us to make
decisions that we could stand behind, based on what's happened in other
municipalities and them not having issues, and the way that our State is heading
to move into really supporting PV.
When I see the transition—and there's been a lot of back and forth here—some of
it has been confounding to me. Some of it being if there is no potential—it's my
understanding that there is no potential for County liability. Correct?
MR. PAUSE: When you say "liability,"meaningI mean, we issue a building
permit and we inspect to that permit and the liability, if you will.
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MS. VILLEGAS: The liability then resides on the contractor who's putting in the
photovoltaic system, correct?
MR. PAUSE: One would hope that.
MS. VILLEGAS: Yes, that's my understanding.
MR. PAUSE: If you need Judge Strance to make a ruling content, I'd be happy to
share my seat. But you would think that the preponderance of liability would go
with the installer, and in the case of a stamped set of plans, with the licensed
engineer of record as well.
MS. VILLEGAS: Right. So, in my prior experience with some Code
amendments, it was argued very ferociously that there was no need for another
stamp. This was—dealt with different issues. But in the intentionality of cost and
moving things along, this had to do with more of affordable workforce housing.
It was argued vehemently that there was not a need for another stamp or another
inspection. So that's where some of this gives me heartburn because I think that
if standards apply, they should apply.
I'm not comfortable with making legislation based onI just think the
terminology of what somebody says—and I appreciate your standing behind your
staff and recognizing them as experts in the field. There's a lot of things that I'm
not comfortable with either. But in the interest of looking at what's happening in
the industry, looking at what's happening in other counties, how things are being
managed, what their bills are, I think that there is opportunity for some decisions
to be made that might require people to step outside of their comfort zones.
Because, I don't think this has to do so much with health and safety, and that's
what I'm hearing, but I see no evidence of that.
I see no evidence of liability concerns to the County. I wonder, you know, the
cost between $500 and $1,000 to get an electrical engineer stamp, I don't have
personal experience with this, but how long does that take? Who does them? Can
civil engineers do them? Do any of your staff currently, licensed engineers,
participate in any kind of a business model in which they provide them? So those
are my concerns, and I appreciate the complication and the uncomplication. And
I recognize the other amendments, and we're going to if this, then that; if this,
then that. So we're doing a dance here.
I really appreciate Mr. Kaneali`i-KI einfelder's willingness to go from the
30 kilowatts down to the 10. And I appreciate your department's willingness to
navigate that as being the building block to create next steps. But I don't think—I
have concerns with this particular amendment because I think it does the
intentionality of where we need to go and actually does overcomplicate it. And so
with that, I yield.
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ACTING CHR. INABA: All right. I'll remind us again, especially with the
Director here, if there's specific questions, let's try to keep them real-life
situations and decide on this amendment. We can kind of see which way it might
be going. Go ahead.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. On the amendment. I'm going to be
supporting it. Thank you, Council Member Kimball. I think, over the last few
meetings we've had on this bill, Council Member Lee Loy has talked about ways
around the system, and I think that helps to address some of the loopholes.
Because, at the end of the day, and, Director, I think you illustrated a really good
point, handling a really old system and now wanting to increase the capacity. I
think any additions should have that stamp so that we can ensure that it's well
planned, it's structurally sound, and that there is seamless integration systemwide.
So I will be supporting the amendment. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. I'll be supporting this amendment as well.
It makes sense to me and it's what the department is saying they need to feel
comfortable. I think it's good. I want to get this bill passed. Okay. Thank you,
Chair.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Back to the maker of the amendment,
Council Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you and thanks, everybody, for the discussion. Yeah, I
think one of the challenges that we face is that we have to legislate broadly for the
general, not the exception. So we legislate for the rule about the exception. And I
think Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder has given examples of exceptions
where you wouldn't want a stamp. And then on the flip side, there are definitely
exceptions where you would want a stamp: It's an older system; you don't know
if it can handle the additional and whatnot. This is what that tells me is that, and I
know you hate this, Director Pause, that this is a situation where perhaps
discretion is needed.
And so what I'm going to suggest isagain, recommending that we want to have
a possibility that the department requires a stamp for additions, but give the
authority having jurisdiction, the department, the option to waive that requirement
in the event that it is not going to be that. It's the addition of one panel. So I feel
like we're inching towards a compromise that gets us to legislating for the rule
rather than the exception. So my proposal would be new systems under 10 kV, no
stamp. Systems with additions would require a stamp unless waived by the
authority having jurisdiction in that case. Though, department could say, "This is
a minor enough addition or change, we're not going to require the stamp." I think
that that might be a compromise. I'd like to ask the maker to give thoughts on
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that, in which case I would recommend passage of this amendment and then I will
work on including that additional language. I'd also like to get your input on that
thought, Director.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Sorry, we have this amendment before us, and
understanding that that could be the option. That's not the option that's on the
paper in front of us. So is there any further discussion? And I think that is a good
discussion once we clear this. Any further discussion on the amendment?
Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'll keep it short. To the maker of the
amendment and to Mr. Pause, we have a different amendment that I believe gets
us to a middle ground as well. And I'm not sure process-wise how to discuss the
two but I'd like to before we do anything to the amendment at hand, I would
think it'd be worthwhile just discussing the other amendment to see the difference
in the two. I think it addresses what we're talking about right now.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Mr. Clerk, could you provide any guidance regarding?
MS. KIMBALL: Chair, if I may, I'm willing to withdraw this amendment, but
I'd actually like to hear your thoughts on it before I make that. I can withdraw it
and reintroduce it after we've had the discussion if necessary, but I'd like to hear
your thoughts on it first.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Sure. I think the amendment's pretty straightforward.
I've been counting, though, so I think we canI don't have any problem with this
amendment. I would support it.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. At this time, I'll withdraw the motion.
Withdraw Motion Ms. Kimball withdrew her motion to amend Bill 66,
to Amend: Draft 2, with the contents of Comm. 435.8.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Communication 435.8, the motion to
amend with that has been withdrawn. Back to the main motion, to approve
Bill 66, Draft 2.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: On the main motion, thank you for the
discussion.
Motion to Amend: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to amend Bill 66, Draft 2,
with the contents of Comm. 435.10. Seconded by
Ms. Villegas.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
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MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. And thank you for the
discussion. This is good and this is healthy. Director, do you have the
amendment that we're discussing in front of you? Okay, good. So this, to me,
really is a middle ground and in a lot of different ways, and I'll hit them.
Thirty kW is the low level for all the other states. No engineer stamp. No public
safety issues. No screening policy questions from the counties. Great. That's the
new part. And keeping in the "new,"because that's new systems now under 15
because I'm looking at 30 as the floor for all the other counties. So new systems
under 15. This really is a middle ground for me because I started with 30,
remember, and then we went down to 10 on behalf of the department, okay.
The next one, though, this is where I I'm trying to modify this language so that
we hit the right area. And this, to me, was it. And this is my thoughts over the
past few days in listening to the department, listening to my fellow Council
Members. I'm trying to find the tightening up of the language without being
overbearing. So "additions or modifications to existing systems greater than
15 kilowatts." My purpose, my intent here, is to say if you're going to modify a
system and you go over a threshold, because I was hearing from the department is
10 plus 10 plus 10I still don't even know if that even applies but this here,
"additions or modifications to existing systems greater than 15" says that once
you modify or you add on to an existing PV system and you go over a kW
threshold, that's the main play rating on the inverters, you've got to get an
engineer stamp.
That keeps everybody honest in the community. That creates no gaps for people
to take advantage of us, and it keeps this idea of we don't want folks doing
anything crazy without having an engineer involved. That's the only two changes
to this.
I'm stepping up to 15. As I've stated, the other counties are at 30, but because
I'm trying to find a middle ground here. And I hear the department loud and
clear, and I know these inspectors. I've worked with them and I've installed
systems from 5 to 100 kW. There is a level at which you want to have an
engineer involved. I acknowledge that. But I'm very cognizant of the other
counties using 30 kW as their floor, but the same inspections by the utility across
the State with no public safety being deteriorated. So this, to me, really is a
beautiful middle ground if you're willing to hear it. So, to the body, this is the
motion I'm putting on the floor. Thank you. Open for discussion.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Any discussion on the amendment before
us, Communication 435.10? Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. A clarification question. The way I read
this, it seems like you could be adding 15 kilowatts to an existing 15 kilowatts and
not need a stamp. Is that a correct reading of this? I yield.
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ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Restate the question one more time.
MS. KAGIWADA: Based on my reading of this, it looks like you could be
adding 15 kilowatts or less to an existing system of 15 kilowatts, making it a total
of 30 kilowatts without a stamp. Is that correct?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I don't read it like that. Mr. Pause?
ACTING CHR. INABA: Perhaps, let me just retool her question.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Your intention is that if any addition takes the total
output over 15, it would then require the stamp. Is that correct?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes, that is correct.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Okay. So, Council Member Kagiwada, that's the
intention of the language. Whether it reads that way or not is your concern or
question.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Yeah, I agree with that intention. I'm just not sure
this reads like that. So I guess maybe look to Corp. (Corporation) Counsel or
even the department to weigh in on the wording.
MR. PAUSE: I actually think Council Member Inaba nailed it. He said,
"additions or modifications to existing systems that bring the total system over
15 kilowatts." Those are your words but I had already written them down. So,
brilliant.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: That was my exact intention. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Okay. Corporation Counsel, if you could come. Please
just weigh in on that to make sure we're understanding exactly understanding
what the intention is and whether or not the language falls in line with that
intention.
(Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance came forward
to address the members of the Council.)
MS. STRANCE: Thank you. Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. I think
the answer is yes because if you read this section along with Section 5-5-1(b) of
the Hawaii County Code, that provision says that once a permit is issued, there
shall be no changes, modifications, or alterations to the existing permit. So
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
somebody comes in for 10 kilowatts, they get a permit. And as I understand the
Code, and mine is a lawyer reading of the Code, this Code has—it's difficult to
read the Code, each provision in isolation of the other because it is a
comprehensive Code and guidebook for construction. And in this provision, the
electrical (inaudible).
So something is permitted. That plan is the work permitted. If there are additions
or alterations to that plan, then a new permit must be granted and the entire new
system now, this amended system, is evaluated. And if I heard the testimony of
our DPW group last time, which was what I had heard them say is if somebody
comes in on a 10, 10, 10, the second 10 they're looking at a whole new system.
You look at the system as a whole. And so the language of the Code matters, and
the issuance and what is provided for a permit matters. And what happens to the
work that is—how permitted work is affected by subsequent work matters. And
so if I'm misreading the Code because the department doesn't read the Code in
the same way, then there may need to be clarifying language to kind of link the
provisions. But sometimes if you add language that decouples the different
provisions, then you create a different set of problems.
And so I think it's important to understand and have the department tell us how
they review kind of these different steps; are they treated in isolation of each
other? And what I heard them say last time was no. So, based upon my reading
of the Code, the prior statements that were made, yes.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Okay, so I just want to clarify the answer. It's a simple
question for this amendment. And I just want to make sure we have a clear
answer for the language that's before us so that everyone's able to make an
educated decision. "Additions or modifications to existing systems greater than
15 kilowatts." The maker is saying that if additions take the total system over 15,
that's when his intention is that a stamp is required.
A question was brought up by Council Member Kagiwada whether this language
before us means that, or whether an additional 15 could be put on without a
stamp, based on this language right here, because it's the addition or modification
as long as the addition itself is not more than 15. It's either the addition itself or if
it takes it via total output over 15 with the addition.
MS. STRANCE: I think it goes to whether the system itself now becomes greater
than 15. And it's where the word now "new" gets confusing because then now
you may be decoupling. And so, without the word"new,"to me it's a little more
clear because then you're looking at the entire system, and that would be
consistent with how the department will look at expansions and modifications of
system. So as long as it's an integrated and connecting system, then you don't
decouple, because that's how the modification and amendment process works.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
I don't mean to confuse it, but I think it's important to understand how permitting
is viewed and how changes to existing permits are already used, are already
evaluated. So the word"new" I think brings a different concern of mine. That
second clause I think without the word"new"would mean that you don't keep
adding on 15, 15, 15 without the stamps because it would be a modification of the
existing system.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Okay. Thank you, Corporation Counsel. We might be
missing each other on the questions and answers here, but I'll open it up to further
discussion. On the amendment, Council Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. I see Council Member Kagiwada's point. And
because I think this can be read in two ways, it could be read to say that in sum
total the system remains less than 15 kilowatt hours. Or it could be read that the
sum total of the additions could be 15 kilowatts in and of themselves. So you
could have a scenario where your first system was 10, and you could interpret this
to read, "You could go up to 25," is one interpretation. Or your first system was
10, and you could go up to 15. I think it can be read either way. And
furthermore, I think, with your comment around the word "new," Judge Strance,
that it almost—at the same time, if you take "new" out, which I understand what
you're talking about, then that clause actually becomes irrelevant entirely.
And so I think, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, you and I have come
close to the mark but not quite hit it. And so I wouldI understand that you
probably want to keep this moving and we are on second reading, so this is our
last time to amend. I don't know if you want to work real hard real quick to get
something done that we can all collectively agree to, but I don't think this quite
hits the mark either.
But while we're on it, I did want to just get the department's feedback on the 15,
No. 1. And, No. 2, one of the things that I think is up for discussion here would
be do we, when we're talking about additions and modifications, because of the
scenario I was talking about before where we have exceptions on either side,
exceptions where, boy, yeah, you definitely want a PE looking at it, and
exceptions where, "This is a minor change. We don't need it." That may be part
of what we need to do is that discretionary language to say that the department
could waive a requirement with additions and modifications as a possibility. So,
anyway, those are my questions. Please let me know if I need to repeat.
MR. PAUSE: What was the question? No, let me try. We still have a preference
of 10. We still have a preference to have a stamp on additions and modifications.
And one of the other things that I just spoke with folks from Building in the
back. One of the other concerns would be if you've got an older system and
somebody comes along and makes modifications, and it was two separate
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contractors. Ultimately, in the case where you have the potential for two
contractors to point fingers at each other and you've got a PE stamp on top of
that, I would think, for the consumer, that that would be a better way to go.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Additional questions, Council Member Kimball?
MR. PAUSE: Just also you did ask one more thing about discretion and the
authority having jurisdiction. I don't want to belabor this, but I did read the
correspondence that Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder provided about the
other jurisdictions. And there's nothing specifically about the size of a system for
City and County. There's nothing specific. But then they do reference their
electrical code. And interestingly enough, their electrical code talks about
30 kVA, and that work done on systems that have a demand load of 30 kVA or
less don't require a licensed engineer stamp, but the approval of an engineer shall
be required only if the building official so directs. So there's kind of like that out
clause.
And I don't mean to make this thing more convoluted than it seems like we might
be doing here. So I kind of want to just bring that forward, that it appears even
though there's no size limit, that there is some discretion allotted the building
official if in fact they see a set of plans and, "Gee whiz, do we really want to have
an engineer look at this and stamp it?"
MS. KIMBALL: So again, in just speaking to this idea of legislating for the rule
rather than the exception, generally you guys are doing permits for new PV
systems that are under 10 M And that's where we these are the 85 percent of
the permits. Is that correct? So that's the rule, right, new systems under 10.
MR. PAUSE: Yeah.
MS. KIMBALL: And then we have these exceptional situations. In some cases,
permit doesn't necessarily need a PE stamp. In other cases, they might,
depending on how old is the system, whatever. A lot of dependencies. So
that'sI think there's merit toI can't support this amendment as is because of
that dual interpretation. So I think the wording is not quite there anyway, but that
would be my proposal going forward, is we work on something that has a
discretionary component that would allow the department to waive a PE stamp for
additions and modifications that were insignificant. All right, I yield, Chair.
Thanks.
MS. STRANCE: May I ask a question just so that I'm understanding in case this
goes back out for further revision?
ACTING CHR. INABA: Sorry, if you could speak a little bit closer in the mic.
Thank you.
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MS. STRANCE: Thank you. Would it be all right if I ask a clarifying question
just to make sure I'm understanding what's being said? In my understanding that
there would be general comfort in language that would read that—I'm just going
to do (inaudible) a professional electrical engineer for residential installations
that result in a greater-than-10 kilowatt load. Is that the gist of what I'm hearing
you folks say, is that there's a—it's the cumulative impact that is of most concern
to you? And if the language was written in a way that was clear that it was that
load that was the driving consideration, that that would bring greater consensus to
the amendment?
MS. KIMBALL: May I respond?
ACTING CHR. INABA: Yes.
MS. KIMBALL: No. The concern is that there are, not the norm, but exceptional
scenarios where you're adding on to a system, regardless of the size, that might
result in the department wanting a professional engineer to look at it.
And so it could be a cumulative system of 8. It could be a cumulative system of
more. But the concern that I heard from the department when we talked about
this was that it's more what system exists and what you're adding on. It's going
to be unique to each case. It's not really just the math.
MS. STRANCE: Thank you. I can work with that.
ACTING CHR. INABA: All right. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I don't support that. But I think you've asked her to at
least draft something, so maybe we'll have an amendment to have that discussion
at our next meeting. But I do not support that thought of someone having 2 or
3 kilowatts and then you're going to force them to a structural engineer. And I'll
only say this: I have confidence in your electrical permit. I have total confidence
they'll go out; they'll inspect it. They know what they're doing. I don't feel it's
necessary to have that structural stamp. Thank you. I yield.
MR. PAUSE: Could I just clarify that? We're not talking about structural
engineering here. We're talking about licensed electrical engineers. The
structural stuff really only comes into play if you're not following the standard for
the attachments that we have for roof-mounted systems. Then if you're going to
do something different, you need a structural engineer. Or if you're doing a
ground mount system, then you need to have a structural engineer for that. But
we're not talking about structural. What we're talking about is a licensed
electrical engineer that will look at the electrical diagrams, the one lines, the
interconnections, the wiring sizes, all of the various components of the system.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
And I think, in this particular case, I think what's in front of us is with this
85 percent rule, the department acknowledges that and is fully supportive that
85 percent of the permits that have come in will not need to be stamped by an
electrical engineer. What we're having the discussion about isI believe what
we're having the discussion about is when somebody comes in with a set of plans
that's proposing to modify a system that they currently have, or add on to the
system or put in another system at the same location, the department would like to
be able to see a licensed engineer stamp those plans irrespective of whether it's
2 kilowatts or 10 kilowatts or higher.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Alrighty, any further questions, Council
Member Evans?
MS. EVANS: No.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Chair?
ACTING CHR. INABA: Yes. Before you withdraw, though, if you are going to
withdraw, I would like to share my thoughts.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sorry, one more. I just want to follow up
with them.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Go ahead.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Ms. Strance,that was my intent for the
question about hitting a sum. The sum is important to me because that's size.
That's output. That's amperage. That's breakers. That's wire sizing. So, to me,
as an electrician, when you step over a certain threshold, you are touching on
things that you should have an engineer be looking at. And when I look at a stove
requiring a 50 amp breaker, okay, but you don't need an engineer stamp off on a
plug for a stove. You can have a contractor put that in. You should get a permit
for the work, but you don't need an engineer stamp off on it. PV systems of a
certain size don't even hit a breaker required for a stove.
So we're touching on real basics here, and I want you guys to understand that.
Some of these things that we're talking about, this 10 to 15, I mean these are
breakers that wouldn't even be the size of your stove. But we're requiring
engineers to be involved in the process. So, to me, yes, the size is the intent.
As far as the waiving, the waiving is referenced in another county. I'm glad you
brought that up, Mr. Pause. So I want everyone to be cognizant of—this is the
reality. For me, I'm looking at boxes in my head and wires and breakers going
different places. That's what I'm seeing as we're talking right now. And I'm
trying to write legislation to make sure that we're not just burdening for no
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reason, and I feel that we are. And that's where this all started from, was other
counties don't and we do for everything. There's an unbalance there and I'm
trying to bring balance to it, therefore the simplicity.
To the amendment, I get your point. Not intentioned, Ms. Kagiwada, to give us
the ability to do 15 and 15 to make 30. But the intention was—and, Ms. Strance,
I heard your answer. I just want to check back in. So you're saying the reading
on this is the "new"becomes an issue? So we're saying no stamp for new
systems, okay, over 15 kW. That's Section 1, comma. Do you have the
amendment in front of you?
MS. STRANCE: Well, I guess because the there's another provision that
talks that's a specific way that you can't modify or change permits. Arguably,
every permit is for a new something. So I would worry that the "new" allows for
there to be something distinct where the other parts of the Code say if there's any
connection between the two, it's a modification. And so I don't know how you
given those other provisions, I don't know how you distinguish new from a
modification. And so I'm not sure exactly where it gets you, and I apologize if
I'm misunderstanding how the real world works and really just looking at how the
Code reads. That's my thought.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, I mean originally we did start with
I've got to go find it. Hold on a second. I want to see where we started from.
Sorry, Chair. So, no stamp for installations greater than 10 kW. Very simple.
Sorry, no stamp for systems less than 10 kW. That was it. That's the original
bill. It was very simple. If you're not over 10 kW we're not talking about
additions or modifying anything no stamp. That was the original bill. So we're
trying to find this middle ground, but I feel like we've actually lost—we're losing
touch
MS. STRANCE: I think that if the intent is the maximum load, similar to the
portion that was read in by Mr. Pause, that might satisfy more people because it's
the sum total no matter what.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I like that too. It makes me happy as an
electrician. Mr. Pause, what are your thoughts here? We're kind of working right
now to figure this out so we can get this done today, so we don't waste anymore
taxpayer money on trying to figure out how to reword a five-word bill.
MR. PAUSE: I'm not sure what I'm commenting to. Are you saying we're going
to go back to the original language? And maybe could somebody read what—I'm
sorry.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Sorry, Chair,please. A littleI'm just
going to reword
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ACTING CHR. INABA: I have some suggestions that I could offer that I think
would help us.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, let me
ACTING CHR. INABA: Yeah.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Mr. Pause, the original wording was
stamp required for installations greater than 10 kW. That was it. And the change
we're making is installations greater than 10 kW. That was the amendment to the
Code as it stands. Very simple. The Chair has some suggestions. I'm going to
yield. That's where we started from. That was it, okay.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. All right. So, with this amendment, based
on what the department has said, I can't support the amendment before us. They
said 10 and I'm going to go with their professional opinion on this. So it needs to
be 10 if I'm going to support an amendment. I think what we've come to is the
total output not being over 15, based on what I've heard in our discussion. So if
we were to just retool some of the language in these amendments, stating that for
residential installations that result in a total output of greater than 10 kilowatts.
And that covers both new installations or additions to or modifications. Once it
takes us over 15 kilowatts, it's going to need a stamp. That's my k6kua, if you
will, based on the conversation I heard, but I can't support the amendment before
us.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: In response, Chair, if I may. I like that.
Would the department support that language that was just stated?
MR. PAUSE: I'm going to attempt to try to read that back. So it becomes, for
residential installations that result in a total output of
ACTING CHR. INABA: Greater than.
MR. PAUSE: Greater than 10.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Kilowatts. I'm not sure output is the correct term,
but
MR. PAUSE: That sure gets us back to simplified language.
ACTING CHR. INABA: So, that's my thoughts. We have a motion on the floor
right now with this amendment. Is there any further discussion? Will you be
withdrawing or will we take a vote?
Withdraw Motion Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder withdrew his motion to amend
to Amend: Bill 66, Draft 2, with the contents of Comm. 435.10.
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ACTING CHR. INABA: Back to the main motion, Bill 66, Draft 2. Council
Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. So I'm going to have my legislative
assistant help with this real quickly, but what I'm proposing here is "will be
required for residential installations with a cumulative total of greater than 10 kW,
no stamp." So that would be—Director and Building Division folks, that would
mean that anything with a cumulative total of less than 10 kW would not require a
stamp.
ACTING CHR. INABA: 10 or less.
MS. KIMBALL: A cumulative total, though. That's the important part. So
modification that got you over 10 would require. Is that acceptable?
MR. PAUSE: Yeah, that sounds good. I'm not going to turn around and look at
Julann. Is she saying yes or no?
MS. KIMBALL: She's got a poker face back there. Is that acceptable?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I have one comment.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Kimball, do you yield?
MS. KIMBALL: I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Begging the question, the existing language
in Bill 66, Draft 2, residential installations greater than 10, have we come right
back to that? How was what we're proposing different?
ACTING CHR. INABA: Because we're talking about—we're closing up the
loophole for additional installations. So if you had 10—right now, based on
what's before us, Bill 66, Draft 2, we have installations greater than 10. So you
could put 10. You could put 10 more. There's nothing banning that.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
ACTING CHR. INABA: What we're saying is the total. That's why we're
putting in that total language.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I like that. And then checking with the
department. Mr. Pause, when the department views incoming applications, do
you see it? This kind of came up before. I think Gary touched on it.
Ms. Kagiwada asked the question.
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MS. KAGIWADA: Yup.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: When they come in, say someone has a
say they have a 5 kW system. If they come in with another 10 kW system, does
your department view that as two separate entities? It's attached to the same
TMK, same meter; who cares about the contractor, whatever.
MR. PAUSE: It would require another permit. So you've got 5, and a few years
go by and you want to add 10 more, then it would require another permit. And
under the current situation, that application would be stamped by a licensed
engineer.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So a new permit. But the question for the
department is do you view that as a sum total already, or do you view it as two
separate systems? Because, in my mind, you guys look at this as a sum total
system. It had a 5; here's a 10. Now it's a 15 kW system. Regardless of what
permit number it is, you've got to view it as a whole. Does that not happen?
MR. PAUSE: I'm not sure about that. I'm also not quite sure of the relevancy.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Because it brings us back to the bill.
MR. PAUSE: So, if they've got 5 and then they added another 10, and now they
come in and they want to add another 5, then they would be adding 5 to a 15
system.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The relevancy for me is if you guys are
viewing as a sum total, then this language actually works already. If you're not
viewing it as a sum total, then we have the loophole that was talked about. It's
really important that I haven't been able to get this answer yet. This is the
departmental procedure that drives our decision-making. And I hate to drag this
out, but this was very helpful actually. See if you can find the answer.
ACTING CHR. INABA: What is your specific question here?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Do you have your question, Mr. Pause? Do
you understand the question?
MR. PAUSE: I do understand the question, but it's not an area that I play in
everyday, so that's why I'm looking back at Kelly. But then he's not the
electrical guy either, but maybe he could add. Maybe he could bail me out here.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Understood. Let's work on finding the
answer. For now, Chair, I yield.
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ACTING CHR. INABA: All right. I believe Council Member Kimball's office is
working on an amendment right now. Can you restate the question for everyone
very clearly?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Mr. Wilson, thank you for being here
today. Question for you is, and this is in relevance to this whole conversation
because we started out—sorry, we've ended up at a place where we're talking
about the installations being greater or lesser than 10 kW. The question I'm
asking is when it comes into the County, you have an existing system already on a
home, a PV system, whatever it might be, let's just call it 5. Someone comes in
and they say, "I'm adding 10 more. I'm adding a 10 kW system, two more 5 kW
inverters," okay. When it comes into the County, do you guys say, in your
processing or application review, do you look at the 5 as separate from the two
new 5's coming in? Two separate systems? Or do you go, "No, this is now a
15 kW system"? This is very relevant because if you look at it that way, this
language puts us in the right place already.
(Note: At this time, Deputy Building Chief Kelly Wilson, Department of
Public Works, came forward to address the members of the Council.)
MR. WILSON: Okay, they would both be permitted separately. So there would
be separate systems until they get to the connector box, and then it becomes one
system.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So they become one system. Does
the department view them as a whole when you review the—if you're reviewing
the system before approval, are you going to look at it as existing system and new
system put together? Or you'll just say, "New system looks good; away you go"?
This is important. This is totally departmental. I've always wondered this. This
has been on my list of things to find out in life.
MR. WILSON: Repeat the question again. Okay, sorry about that, Matt. Your
total would be the sum of the two.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yes.
MR. WILSON: So then it would become one system, but they would be reviewed
and permitted separately. So, with that, once it gets to the connector box, that's
where it becomes one system and that's where it produces out to HELCO if it's
on grid.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Agreed. That's what my brain tells me
logically. Electrician, it's all coming back to one place. It's the department
review. This is important. So, first thing, installations greater than 10 kW require
a stamp. We're talking about this ability for someone to come in and keep adding
under 10's to get to a thousand or whatever it might be. I'm wondering if the
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
department would ever even allow it to happen, because as soon as they step from
5 or anything over 10, you review that system now as a whole as a 12, as a 17, as
a 35, as 116, whatever it might be. Is that the process within the department?
And we can't see that. That's the back end.
MR. WILSON: I believe that would be the answer, yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I think so, too, and I think I remember Gary
saying something as Ms. Kagiwada questioned last time on that. And I think
that's why the other counties are so simple in their Code language, is because we
can explain in a way over here, but the reality is, as you look at it and review it,
you see more or less than a certain number, but you see it as a whole.
MR. WILSON: As a whole, yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. And I think that's what Gary said
too. So, in that case, the simplicity language within 66, Draft 2, becomes the most
simple language we can. Because, whether they're coming in to add or modify
existing systems or they're coming in new, we view it as a whole in the County
on the review side. Did I explain that correctly?
MR. WILSON: I think Councilman Kimball had the right wording as "a
cumulative,"yes. When you get to the cumulative, that's the whole. So I think
the modification wording of that would be—might cover the whole conversation.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So like the "just in cases,"we're
going to add cumulative to the whole thing. Okay. Beautiful. Thank you very
much, Mr. Wilson. Mr. Pause, do you agree with the statement?
MR. PAUSE: Yes.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Good answer, Director Pause. All right, Council
Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. To the conversation that my colleague here was
having, I think that it's important to be as clear and precise as we can be in the
language of the law. And I think that they do, but we think they're doing, but I
there's no harm in actually getting the wording right within the bill. So my
legislative assistant is currently working on the language that would add just
"cumulative total." And if we can table this for a moment, we can take it up as
soon as that amendment arrives. I'd like to make the motion to
MS. EVANS: I have a question.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Evans, real quickly. We're on the
main motion.
MS. EVANS: A different question,just real quick. Assuming EPIC is up and
running and got all the information in. So when someone comes in and wants a
I mean, I'm just—Sue Lee Loy is not here and I'm just thinking what she
commented on. If someone came in, applied for photovoltaic, but did not tell you
they had one already out at their home, your EPIC system, by address, you can go
and see that they have a system already there. And you're going to see that
they're going to add it. Because, she was worried that people would come in for
10, and maybe they'd come in later for 10 and another one, and she didn't want to
see them playing the game. So I'm just curious, with EPIC are you going to be
able to catch that?
MR. WILSON: Should be able to catch it, yes, because all permits are now in
EPIC. So that would come up. And then also, as a technicality, it should be
shown on the plans that they do have the existing. If the inspector gets out there,
and it has been presented as a standalone system, that's when they would reject it
and have it addressed at that time.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. Thank you for letting me answer that question because
she's not here. I wanted to have clarity. Thank you. I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. A motion,please, to table Bill 66, Draft 2.
Vote on Motion to Ms. Kimball moved to table Bill 66, Draft 2. Seconded by
Table: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and carried by the following
(Approved) voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba–7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy –2.
Excused: None.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Bill 84: AMENDS CHAPTER 5, ARTICLE 4, SECTION 5-4-7 AND CHAPTER 5,
(Draft 2) ARTICLE 5, SECTIONS 5-5-4 AND 5-5-5 OF THE HAWAII COUNTY
CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO
CANCELLATION OF CONSTRUCTION CODE PERMIT APPLICATIONS,
PERMIT EXPIRATIONS, AND PERMIT EXTENSIONS
Seeks to standardize and coordinate various timing elements for applications,
extensions, and expirations of Construction Code permits to be in alignment with
statutorily required adoption of new Construction Code standards to ensure
proposed projects are planned and designed in accordance with updated and
modified provisions of the Construction Code.
Reference: Comm. 516.8
Intr. by: Ms. Kimball and Ms. Lee Loy
First Reading: November 1, 2023
(Note: Comm. 516.9, from Council Chair Heather L. Kimball dated
November 14, 2023, transmitting proposed amendments to Bill 84, Draft 2, was
circulated.)
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kimball moved to pass Bill 84, Draft 2, on second and
final reading. Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. I'm going to go right to an amendment that's in
your folders. Council Member Galimba had mentioned wanting some clarity
around what would happen if the authority having jurisdiction, DPW, failed to
render a decision on an extension within the 30 days, because they have to make
the request for the extension before 30 days out. If it takes longer than 30 days to
make the decision, what would happen? And so, this is a simple amendment that
clarifies that if the authority having jurisdiction, DPW, does not render a decision
within that time frame of 30 days, the permit will remain unexpired until that
decision is made. So, if, for example, you are 30 days out from your permit
expiring, you put in a request. For whatever reason the department cannot make a
determination upon that request before your permit expires, it would remain
unexpired until they made a decision on your request for an extension. So
hopefully that's clear to everyone.
Motion to Amend: Ms. Kimball moved to amend Bill 84, Draft 2, with the
contents of Comm. 516.9. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIMBALL: I yield, Chair.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you for the preview. Discussion on the
amendment. Council Member Evans.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MS. EVANS: Yeah, since I wasn't here at the last Committee hearing. Just a
question on this. If they ask for an extension, would they believe—has there been
any problem when people come in and say, "I want an extension," and you say,
"Well, we'll have to make a decision," and they just stop what they're doing
because they don't want to continue doing stuff until they know they can or can't?
I mean, does it create confusion for the person asking for the extension, no matter
if we give them 30 days? It doesn't expire to get a decision, but the reality is do
they stop what they're doing until they get a decision?
(Note: At this time, Public Works Director Stephen Pause came forward
to address the members of the Council.)
MR. PAUSE: So, to just travel a little bit further back in time, the relevancy of
what happens today is essentially irrelevant. One of the reasons we wanted to put
forth this with the six years for everybody was because the department has
traditionally had a very difficult time working within its own framework for
extensions. Many extensions come in after permits have expired, even though
there's clear language today that says you need to request it"X"number of days
in advance. So we're getting rid of that. And, hopefully, the whole concept of six
years is going to provide sufficient time where we don't reach the point of
requesting extensions.
But to your question, as long as you request and you follow the rules, you request
within 30 days of when your permit's going to expire, then this language says that
we will give you an answer within 30 days. And if we don't, since you've asked
in advance like the rule says, then your permit will remain valid. So I don't know
that I've answered that, but I just—comparing what we're proposing and moving
forward to what has traditionally been done is not an easy comparison.
The intent here is we're not trying to be punitive. If there are extenuating
circumstances—and Judge Strance knows this; I didn't want to put any extension
language in there, and Judge Strance said we need to have something in there
because there are extenuating circumstances out there. So, having said that, as
long as you can convey those and make your request in advance, I think this
language allows for the ability for the department to review the application and, at
the same time, not tell people if we don't get back to you within a certain amount
of time, that they can't keep going.
MS. EVANS: I just see some confusion for the person that's asking for the
extension. I mean, I like the fact that you're in the process of making a decision
on extension and having that decision. But if someone came in, and let's say they
have their electrical permit or structural permit, but they don't have their
plumbing permit because their plumber was not available, maybe they're on the
Mainland, family member died, they're gone, and they finally get the plumber;
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
they come in and ask for the plumbing permit. They ask you for an extension, but
you don't give them a decision. So are they left hanging, or shall they ? What
do they do?
MR. PAUSE: So, again, to clarify what you just said, the new one-permit system
means when they're issued a permit, they have a building permit, a plumbing
permit, an electrical permit, and they have six years to complete the work. That's
what the new rule will say, all right. Then we also inserted language in there
about substantial completion, which is the defined—the AIA (American Institute
of Architects). You can look it up. There's a clear definition. And what we're
telling folks is we're trying to give you plenty of time to do your work, but there
are extenuating circumstances. But don't come to us 30 days before the six years
is up and tell us, "I haven't done a framing. I haven't done a foundation." The
concept of substantial completion is we want you to do your work as you go
along. And, yeah, you have hiccups, but maybe hiccups last a year. It shouldn't
last five years and six months.
So I believe this language is fair and it provides for the applicant to come back in,
or the permit holder, at this point, to come back in. And they don't have to wait
till 30 days if there are things that are happening in advance of that to come in and
have that conversation. The way it's historically been done, again I think people
know this, the department hasn't really done a great job of enforcing the rules.
And we're trying to clean all of that up. I think this is fair for the entire world.
We want people to succeed and get their projects done. That's 100 percent the
mindset of the entire Building Division. But this provides that little bit of
language that if there really is something unforeseen, that we can work with you.
But we want to work with you. We don't want you coming in five years, eleven
months and ask for help. Hopefully, we can avoid that in the future.
MS. EVANS: Understand. I mean, sometimes we can't—recessions, cancer;
things happen in people's lives. But in context,just to put this in context for me,
it says the permit shall not expire until a decision is made. The way we've written
it, if you decide to give them an extension, I believe it's 180 days. Is that it? Is
that even flexible? "I'll give you two months." "I'll give you one year." "I'll
give you " Just in context. I think it's 180 days.
MR. PAUSE: The language that's proposed is "permit extension shall not exceed
one extension of 180 days."
MS. EVANS: So you could make a decision of 180 days or less.
MR. PAUSE: Yes.
MS. EVANS: Okay, all right. Thank you, I yield.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Again, this amendment before us is just
saying if the department fails to provide a decision, the permit doesn't expire. It's
good until the decision is rendered. Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Director, thank you. This
makes sense. I was a little bit concerned about this part. But as I looked at it as a
whole six years coming in for an extension and just making sure that we follow
up with the person and the applicant, this is good. So I'll be supporting this
today. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Any further discussion on the amendment?
If not, all those in favor of amending Bill 84, Draft 2, with the contents of
Communication 516.9, say "aye."
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 84, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 516.9 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Vote on Motion to Ms. Kimball moved to suspend Council Rule 23 to waive
Suspend Council the holdover for the substantive amendment of Bill 84,
Rules: Draft 2. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz and carried by the
(Approved) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair. This is a good bill, and I
like the direction it's taken. I wanted to mention that the Mayor reached out and
actually said—he asked my opinion on the bill and I said I like it. The more I
talked to him, I realized this is really important to him. And so I appreciate that
level of communication, because when we first started all this, there was a silo
breaking. So to have all these different pieces come together and different people
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
making an effort to make things better in our permitting system really is beautiful
to see. A great bill. I'll be supporting it today. And thank you for kind of
helping us to make this happen, Mr. Pause. Thank you. I yield, Chair.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Looks like that brings us to the end of the
discussion on this matter. All those in favor of approving Bill 84, Draft 2, as
amended, please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 84: The motion to pass Bill 84, Draft 2, as amended to Draft 3,
Draft 3 on second and final reading was carried by the following
(Adopted) voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you very much, DPW. Please stick around.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Acting Chair Inaba relinquished the chair to
Chair Kimball.
CHR. KIMBALL: What we will do now is go to bills for first reading. So
starting at Bill 97. We have some funding projects that are relevant to DPW. So,
Director, you're welcome to stay with us here. The staff is working on the
amendment to Bill 66. We are expecting that shortly. So, Mr. Clerk, if we could,
Bill 97.
Bill 97: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 23-51, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO PUBLIC
IMPROVEMENTS AND FINANCING THEREOF FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
JULY 1, 2023 TO JUNE 30, 2024
Adds the Public Works Lanikaula Street Rehabilitation Kilauea Avenue to Manono
Street—County project($1,250,000) and the Lanikaula Street Rehabilitation
Kilauea Avenue to Manono Street—Federal project($5 million)to the Capital
Budget. Funds for this project shall be provided from General Obligation Bonds,
Capital Projects Fund—Fund Balance and/or other Sources ($1,250,000) and
Federal Grants Receivable ($5 million), to rehabilitate roadway pavement.
Reference: Comm. 561
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
Approve: FC-105
Note: Requires 2/3 vote of the entire
membership to amend,pursuant to
Section 10-6(e), Hawai`i County Charter
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Motion to Approve: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to pass Bill 97 on first
reading and adopt Finance Committee Report No. 105.
Seconded by Ms. Kagiwada.
CHR. KIMBALL: Any discussion on this item?
MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: If I could, Chair?
CHR. KIMBALL: Go ahead.
MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: We had good discussion at Committee level,
and I look forward to supporting this measure.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Anyone else? Seeing none, all those in favor
please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 97: The motion to pass Bill 97 on first reading and adopt
(Approved) Finance Committee Report No. 105 was carried by the
following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Bill 98: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 23-50, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING
BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
ENDING JUNE 30, 2024
Increases revenues in the State Grants —Kua Bay account($198,220) and
West Hawaii Ocean Safety account($245,194); and appropriates the same to the
Kua Bay —State Salaries and Wages account and the Hapuna Beach—State Salaries
and Wages account, for total appropriations of$778,220 (Kua Bay) and $1,264,297
(Hapuna Beach). These additional funds would be used for costs associated with
ocean safety at Kua Bay and Hapuna Beach.
Reference: Comm. 562
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
Approve: FC-106
Motion to Approve: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to pass Bill 98 on first
reading and adopt Finance Committee Report No. 106.
Seconded by Ms. Villegas.
CHR. KIMBALL: Any discussion? Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: We had good discussion at Committee level.
And our Assistant Fire Chief Darwin Okinaka provided background. I feel
comfortable moving this forward. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Anyone else on Bill 98? Seeing none, all those in
favor please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 98: The motion to pass Bill 98 on first reading and adopt
(Approved) Finance Committee Report No. 106 was carried by the
following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Bill 99: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 23-50, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING
BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
ENDING JUNE 30, 2024
Increases revenues in the Federal Grants —Traffic Safety Training Project account
($11,479.88); and appropriates the same to the Traffic Safety Training Project
account, for a total appropriation of$166,479.88. These additional funds would be
used to support the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney's Traffic Safety Training
Proj ect.
Reference: Comm. 563
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
Approve: FC-107
Vote on Bill 99: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to pass Bill 99 on first
(Approved) reading and adopt Finance Committee Report No. 107.
Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by the following voice
vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Page 95
Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Bill 88: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 23-50, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING
BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
ENDING JUNE 30, 2024
Appropriates revenues in the Federal Grants —Environmental Protection Agency
Solid Waste Infrastructure for Recycling Grants for Communities account
($1,522,130); and appropriates the same to the Environmental Protection Agency
Solid Waste Infrastructure for Recycling Grants for Communities account. Funds
would be used to design and implement a city-scale reusable foodware and
refillable bottle system in Hilo.
Reference: Comm. 522
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
First Reading: November 1, 2023
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kagiwada moved to pass Bill 88 on second and final
reading. Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Any discussion on this item? Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. KAGIWADA: Just we had some good discussion on this. I'm very excited.
It seems like a lot of people are looking to this as possible, a thing that we can
hopefully replicate after we do it well in Hilo. So thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kagiwada. Anyone else?
Seeing none, all those in favor please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 88: The motion to pass Bill 88 on second and final reading was
(Adopted) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Page 96
Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Bill 89: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 23-50, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING
BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
ENDING JUNE 30, 2024
Appropriates revenues in the Federal Grants —Safe Routes to School account
($249,320); and appropriates the same to the Safe Routes to School account to
assist the Department of Public Works in developing Safe Routes to School
initiatives to promote walking and biking as safe and viable sources of
transportation near schools.
Reference: Comm. 523
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
First Reading: November 1, 2023
Motion to Approve: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to pass Bill 89 on second
and final reading. Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Any discussion? Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALII-KLEINFELDER: Just a quick mahalo to the department.
Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Anyone else? Seeing none, all those in favor
please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 89: The motion to pass Bill 89 on second and final reading was
(Adopted) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Bill 90: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 23-50, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING
BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
ENDING JUNE 30, 2024
Increases revenues in the State Grants —Career Criminal Program account
($94,240); and appropriates the same to the Career Criminal Program account, for a
total appropriation of$546,168, to support the prosecution of career criminals.
Reference: Comm. 524
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
First Reading: November 1, 2023
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Vote on Bill 90: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to pass Bill 90 on second
(Adopted) and final reading. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by
the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Bill 91: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 23-50, AS AMENDED, THE OPERATING
BUDGET FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
ENDING JUNE 30, 2024
Increases revenues in the State Grants —Victim/Witness Assistance account
($344,199); and appropriates the same to the Aid to Victims account, for a total
appropriation of$443,371 to support the Prosecuting Attorney Office's Victim-
Witness Assistance Program.
Reference: Comm. 525
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
First Reading: November 1, 2023
Vote on Bill 91: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to pass Bill 91 on second
(Adopted) and final reading. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by
the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Bill 92: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 23-51, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO PUBLIC
IMPROVEMENTS AND FINANCING THEREOF FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
JULY 1, 2023 TO JUNE 30, 2024
Adds the Public Works Islandwide Asphalt Concrete Paving Project($3,000,000) to
the Capital Budget. Funds for this project shall be provided from General
Obligation Bonds, Capital Projects Fund—Fund Balance and/or other Sources, and
would be used to resurface County maintained roads islandwide.
Reference: Comm. 526
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
First Reading: November 1, 2023
Note: Requires 2/3 vote of the entire
membership to amend,pursuant to
Section 10-6(e), Hawai`i County Charter
Vote on Bill 92: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to pass Bill 92 on second
(Adopted) and final reading. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried by
the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Bill 93: AMENDS ORDINANCE NO. 23-51, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO PUBLIC
IMPROVEMENTS AND FINANCING THEREOF FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
JULY 1, 2023 TO JUNE 30, 2024
Adds the Public Works Waiakea-Palai Streams Flood Risk Management—County
project($7,596,700) and the Waiakea-Palai Streams Flood Risk Management—
Federal project($8,743,300)to the Capital Budget. Funds for this project shall be
provided from General Obligation Bonds, Capital Projects Fund—Fund Balance
and/or other Sources ($7,596,700) and Federal Grants Receivable ($8,743,300), to
construct two flood control detention basins.
Reference: Comm. 527
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
First Reading: November 1, 2023
Note: Requires 2/3 vote of the entire
membership to amend,pursuant to
Section 10-6(e), Hawai`i County Charter
Motion to Approve: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to pass Bill 93 on second
and final reading. Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
CHR. KIMBALL: Any discussion on this item? Council Member Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Director Pause, if you could, I have one
interesting question for you regarding this.
(Note: At this time, Public Works Director Stephen Pause came forward
to address the members of the Council.)
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I've got to say, too, I didn't realize it till
about 20 minutes ago, but you're wearing the same shirt I wore yesterday. It's a
really nice shirt.
MR. PAUSE: I was wondering that. I remembered your attire from yesterday, so
brilliant minds think alike.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you for that. This bill, is this the
result of flood monitoring? We talked about the USGS item earlier on, but is this
an end result of that? Does it touch on that?
MR. PAUSE: I'm not entirely sure. This has got a lot of legs behind it. It's been
something that's been going on a while with the Army Corps with the studies. I
do know that we do have one of our gauging stations on this particular stream, if
you will, or gulch. I'm sure that the data that was collected went towards this.
This is a project that's been going on for quite some time, and it's actually,
ultimately, going to be a really good project for the community.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It is. We had a long discussion I think a
long time ago, and there is an importance to this that was highlighted again and
again, and I'm clear on that part. If it is related, this kind of strikes more
importance to our discussion this morning, and that's why I'm asking. So just an
FYI (for your information), kind of keep your eyes open for this one. Thank you.
MR. PAUSE: Thank you for that.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I yield, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Anyone else on Bill 93?
Seeing none, all those in favor please say "aye."
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Vote on Bill 93: The motion to pass Bill 93 on second and final reading was
(Adopted) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Bill 94: AUTHORIZES THE ISSUANCE OF GENERAL OBLIGATION BONDS OF
THE COUNTY OF HAWAII FOR THE PURPOSE OF FUNDING ALL OR A
PORTION OF THE COSTS OF VARIOUS IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS;
FIXING THE FORM, DENOMINATIONS, AND CERTAIN OTHER DETAILS
OF SUCH BONDS AND PROVIDING FOR THEIR SALE TO THE PUBLIC;
AND AUTHORIZES THE TAKING OF OTHER ACTIONS RELATING TO THE
ISSUANCE AND SALE OF THE BONDS
Authorizes the issuance of up to $187 million in General Obligation Bonds to fund
certain Capital Improvement Projects including: Construction of Hilo Wastewater
Treatment Plant and other facilities; Parks and Recreation Projects; Office of
Housing and Community Development Projects; Public Works Repairs and
Maintenance; and Public Works Engineering Drainage, Bridges, and Miscellaneous
Road Projects.
Reference: Comm. 537
Intr. by: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder(B/R)
First Reading: November 1, 2023
Motion to Approve: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to pass Bill 94 on second
and final reading. Seconded by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Any discussion? Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. This is a pretty significant measure that
we are voting on, $187 million bond. I think there have been a few in my time on
the Council that we have either initiated or supported. But I just first want to
thank Director Sako for putting together a package that really helps to fund
infrastructure around our island. There's something for parks and housing,
transportation, wastewater, clean water. I think that is manageable and it's
certainly going to be sustainable over time without sacrificing our
creditworthiness or our ratings. And I just appreciate how it helps to either
initiate or get some projects over the finish line. So I will be supporting this
proj ect.
The last plug I want to make is lots of projects that we have committed to doing, I
would love to see some kind of dashboard system that tracks progress. We're
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
putting money and resources aside to support this work, and I think it would be
tremendous if the Council and the public, who is essentially funding this, are able
to see the status of the various projects. Thank you, Chair. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Anyone else on
this bill? Seeing none, all those in favor please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 94: The motion to pass Bill 94 on second and final reading was
(Adopted) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Return to Order The Chair directed the Council to return to the order of business.
of Business:
Res. 348-23: TRANSFERS/APPROPRIATES AN APPROPRIATION OUT AND FROM A
DESIGNATED FUND ACCOUNT AND CREDITS SAME TO A DESIGNATED
FUND ACCOUNT TO PROVIDE A GRANT TO THE SANCTUARY OF
MANA KE`A GARDENS FOR EXPENSES RELATED TO ITS WELLNESS
THROUGH AGRICULTURE MANIFESTIVAL
Transfers $1,000 from the Clerk-Council Services —Contingency Relief account
(Council District 7); and credits to the Department of Parks and Recreation,
Administration Other Current Expenses account.
Reference: Comm. 581
Intr. by: Ms. Villegas
Motion to Approve: Ms. Villegas moved to adopt Res. 348-23. Seconded by
Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Just ask for my colleagues' support on this exciting project, an
inclusion of working with children in our community. And I particularly like the
term "manifestival." Manifesting and a festival. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Anyone else? Seeing none, all those in favor please say
aye.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Vote on Res. 348-23: The motion to adopt Res. 348-23 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Res. 349-23: TRANSFERS/APPROPRIATES AN APPROPRIATION OUT AND FROM A
DESIGNATED FUND ACCOUNT AND CREDITS SAME TO A DESIGNATED
FUND ACCOUNT TO PROVIDE A GRANT TO THE BIG ISLAND
RESOURCE CONSERVATION AND DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL TO ASSIST
WITH EXPENSES ASSOCIATED WITH THE 2023 HAWAII ISLAND
VETERANS DAY PARADE
Transfers $500 from the Clerk-Council Services —Contingency Relief account
(Council District 7); and credits to the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney, Other
Current Expenses account.
Reference: Comm. 582
Intr. by: Ms. Villegas
Motion to Approve: Ms. Villegas moved to adopt Res. 349-23. Seconded by
Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Just asking for my colleagues' support. This parade was a
great success.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Anyone else? Seeing none, all
those in favor please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 349-23: The motion to adopt Res. 349-23 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kierkiewicz, Villegas, and Chair Kimball—6.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, and Lee Loy —3.
Excused: None.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Res. 350-23: TRANSFERS/APPROPRIATES AN APPROPRIATION OUT AND FROM A
DESIGNATED FUND ACCOUNT AND CREDITS SAME TO A DESIGNATED
FUND ACCOUNT TO PROVIDE A GRANT TO THE HAWAII ISLAND
HIV/AIDS FOUNDATION FOR EXPENSES RELATED TO HEALTH
EDUCATION, TESTING, AND COMMUNITY OUTREACH
Transfers $5,000 from the Clerk-Council Services –Contingency Relief account
(Council District 7); and credits to the Department of Research and Development,
Hawaii County Resource Center account.
Reference: Comm. 583
Intr. by: Ms. Villegas
Motion to Approve: Ms. Villegas moved to adopt Res. 350-23. Seconded by
Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Villegas.
MS. VILLEGAS: Just want to thank all the hard work for the Hawaii Island
AIDS Foundation that is currently known as Kumukahi Health and Wellness. It
really resonated with me listening to all the testimony today about Kumukahi.
And it was actually through getting to know this organization and seeing some of
their new marketing materials and their renaming that I was educated about
Kumukahi and that point, and its incredible cultural history, legacy, heritage, and
significance to our island. So I'm deeply grateful for that and the connectivity
and the power in a name. So, really excited for everything they provide also in
their office here on the west side in Kona. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Villegas. Council Member
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Lending my support. A great organization
with great leadership. Mr. Silva came in—Tui, as we call him but he came in
two weeks ago for another CRF (Contingency Relief Fund). He's a really
amazing individual, as well as his partner. I really love this organization. So
thank you for supporting them, Ms. Villegas.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Anyone else? All those in
favor please say "aye."
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Vote on Res. 350-23: The motion to adopt Res. 350-23 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Res. 351-23: TRANSFERS/APPROPRIATES AN APPROPRIATION OUT AND FROM A
DESIGNATED FUND ACCOUNT AND CREDITS SAME TO A DESIGNATED
FUND ACCOUNT TO PROVIDE A GRANT TO THE ZONTA CLUB OF HILO
FOUNDATION TO ASSIST WITH EXPENSES RELATED TO ITS
"AMELIA EARHART GIRLS IN ENGINEERING DAY" EVENT
Transfers $2,500 from the Clerk-Council Services —Contingency Relief account
(Council District 4); and credits to the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney, Other
Current Expenses account.
Reference: Comm. 584
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to adopt Res. 351-23. Seconded
by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I'll disclose that Council Chair and I
are actually members of the Zonta Club for a number of years now. I think I'm
going on 11 years, same age as my daughter.
It's an international organization. Their mission is to empower women and girls.
We have strong representation here on Hawaii Island. One of the projects that
they run is an engineering day, focused on supporting and exposing girls in
Grades 4 through 6 to science and engineering. They often bring in a speaker,
and they do a science experiment. And the whole idea is to get more girls filling
positions in STEM (science, technology, engineering or mathematics)-related
fields. I've been to a few of these events, and it's just so magical to witness their
curiosity and excitement.
And what's really interesting is an offshoot of this program. I can't remember the
name of it, but the club would offset the cost of a young woman to fly to Oahu to
experience a similar program. And we know somebody that benefited from that
program and that's Natasha Soriano. She is one of our transportation planners in
the County. And so she was someone that never saw herself working in science
or engineering, but because of that exposure, a lightbulb went off and she was
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
really excited to continue to pursue a career pathway. So I'm hoping that this
small amount of money goes a long way in just generating more interest among
our young girls to pursue the field of science. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Kaneali`i-
Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I appreciate this because in my time as an
electrician, I have come across a few woman-owned electrical businesses or
women electricians. In a field mostly dominated by guys, it really is always
refreshing to see a lady doing the work and doing it well, and this is part of that
basis of becoming one of those amazing females. And as a father of two
daughters, I support this. So I thank you. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. I'll just add quickly. As Council
Member Kierkiewicz indicated, I've been a member of Zonta for a long time.
Support all of their efforts to support our women and girls in science and
leadership and entrepreneurism. And I appreciate you putting forth this particular
effort around this particular program. I'm also a member of the Amelia Earheart
Club. I can tell you guys about that another time, but yeah. Anyway, thank you,
Council Member Kierkiewicz, for putting this forward. All those in favor of
adopting Resolution 351-23, please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 351-23: The motion to adopt Res. 351-23 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Res. 352-23: TRANSFERS/APPROPRIATES AN APPROPRIATION OUT AND FROM A
DESIGNATED FUND ACCOUNT AND CREDITS SAME TO A DESIGNATED
FUND ACCOUNT TO PROVIDE A GRANT TO KU'IKAHI MEDIATION
CENTER INC. FOR ITS EAST HAWAII LANDLORD TENANT MEDIATION
PROGRAM
Transfers $2,500 from the Clerk-Council Services —Contingency Relief account
(Council District 4); and credits to the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney, Other
Current Expenses account.
Reference: Comm. 585
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to adopt Res. 352-23. Seconded
by Ms. Kagiwada.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. During the pandemic, our office
worked with the mediation centers on this island and Hawaii Community
Foundation to actually launch the initial landlord-tenant mediation program. And
that was assigned to get ahead of the eviction curve. And so I appreciate how this
program has actually gone statewide. But there is still a critical need to teach
community members how to have these difficult conversations and find solutions
that they are most comfortable with. So, happy to continue to support this
program to help those in East Hawaii that may be struggling to just move
forward on arrangements with their landlord. So, looking for everyone's support.
And putting a plug in: If you want to support your mediation center in East or
West Hawaii, I know that they could use some financing for that program.
Thank you, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Anyone else? All
those in favor, please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 352-23: The motion to adopt Res. 352-23 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Change Order As directed by the Chair and with no objection from the Council Members, the
of Business: following items were taken out of order:
Res. 357-23: TRANSFERS/APPROPRIATES AN APPROPRIATION OUT AND FROM A
DESIGNATED FUND ACCOUNT AND CREDITS SAME TO A DESIGNATED
FUND ACCOUNT TO PROVIDE A GRANT TO MALAMA O PUNA FOR
EXPENSES RELATED TO THE MAINTENANCE AND BEAUTIFICATION OF
THE RENE SIRACUSA PAHOA ROUNDABOUT
Transfers $3,500 from the Clerk-Council Services —Contingency Relief account
(Council District 4); and credits to the Department of Liquor Control, Public
Programs account.
Reference: Comm. 591
Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to adopt Res. 357-23. Seconded
by Mr. Inaba.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. This is a really unique give. The
Rene Siracusa roundabout in Pahoa, the entrance to our town, is actually not a
County asset. It is something that is under the jurisdiction of the State
Department of Transportation, but they're stretched really thin. So it took a great
while for us to coordinate getting those splinter islands filled in so that when folks
enter the town visitors, folks that live there—it just looks more neat and vibrant.
And so a shou-tout to Malama O Puna for being our community partner in
coordinating volunteers to solicit donations or purchase different flora to just
make the entrance much more vibrant and clean and inviting. And so just looking
for everyone's support on this so we can continue to support community and their
work and their effort to beautify this space.
I'll just also confirm publicly that this organization does in fact have a
Memorandum of Agreement and understanding with DOT (Department of
Transportation)to access that State asset and to do this beautification. It was a
very long process for us to go through, not just filling out the application but also
providing a work plan and identifying the kind of landscaping that would be done
over the term of the agreement. So thanks for everyone for your support on this
measure. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. It's really great to see the community come together,
especially after COVID. So it's so nice to see that community project. And since
Steve Pause is here, if they're going to do a roundabout in other places on County
roads, keeping them beautifying and keeping up those roundabouts is going to be
something that will have to always be addressed. So we'll learn from your
community. Thank you. I yield.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Anyone else? Seeing
none, all those in favor please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 357-23: The motion to adopt Res. 357-23 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Vote on Motion to Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to remove Bill 66,
Remove from Table: Draft 2, from the table. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and carried
(Approved) by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball –7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy –2.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: With that, I guess I can just hang on to the chair for this one
now. Go ahead, Council Member.
Motion to Amend: Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to amend Bill 66, Draft 2,
with the contents of Comm. 435.12. Seconded by
Ms. Kagiwada.
CHR. KIMBALL: Council Member, (inaudible)?
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah, if I could. I really do feel like we've
finally hit a note, but—no, there's no buts. Mr. Pause, thank you for working
with us to get to this point. I know this has been an extreme amount of
conversation over something that just seems so small. But I think this is huge for
the community, and then ultimately in driving towards our goals of sustainability
and renewable energy. So I just appreciate you working with myself and other
Council Members to get to this point. I know this was a little difficult. I'm really
interested to see how this rolls out and what we do from here. So thank you. Any
concerns or any questions on the amendment?
MR. PAUSE: No. Thank you as well. This has been a road. We did manage to
go from four words to eight. I hope Council's not overly disappointed with that.
But, no, I think we've reached a good place, and as I've expressed all along, this
is a good starting point. It doesn't mean that it ends here, but this allows us to
proceed in a way that, as you've stated, is something that's to the benefit of the
community. So thank you.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Pause. I appreciate that.
Thank you. I yield, Chair.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you. Any other comments on the amendment? Seeing
none, all those in favor of adopting Bill 66, Draft 2, with the contents of
Communication 435.12,please say "aye."
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Vote on Motion to The motion to amend Bill 66, Draft 2, with the contents of
Amend: Comm. 435.12 was carried by the following voice vote:
(Approved)
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Vote on Motion to Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to suspend Council
Suspend Council Rule 23 to waive the holdover for the substantive
Rules: amendment of Bill 66, Draft 2. Seconded by Mr. Inaba and
(Approved) carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
CHR. KIMBALL: Back to the main motion, Bill 66, Draft 2, as amended.
Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: This is exciting; I'm not going to lie. Again,
Mr. Pause, thank you. And to the body, thank you for listening. This was lengthy
conversation and there is a lot involved. And there's a lot of different pieces from
the electrical knowledge to the way that the permitting system works, to the
different counties and the existing Code. So to get here with all your help is
really nice. And this ultimately leads us to getting lower-cost PV systems back to
our community members, and I really can't highlight that enough.
Give me one second, Chair. We had testimony from the Ulupono Initiative and I
looked at it. They've sent it in again and again, but I the comment they made
was very succinct. Let me pull it up here. "Ulupono supports Bill 66. The
proposed exemption for PV installations under 10 kW has the potential to support
Hawaii Island's renewable energy adoption and directly support the State's goal
to produce 100 percent renewable energy by 2045." That's very simple but that is
our goal, and we need to move on the steps to get to that goal. So this is one of
them. So I appreciate everyone's support on this. Thank you.
CHR. KIMBALL: Thank you, Council Member. Any further discussion? I
would also like to just take a moment to thank the department and all the time
dedicated to this, and then particularly give a shout-out to Dot in my office and
Leslie over in LRB (Legislative Research Branch), and the folks over in Council
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Services that I think turned an amendment around in record time. So mahalo for
that, you folks. With that, we will proceed to the vote. All of those in favor of
adopting Bill 66, Draft 2, as amended,please say "aye."
Vote on Bill 66: The motion to pass Bill 66, Draft 2, as amended to Draft 3,
Draft 3 on second and final reading was carried by the following
(Adopted) voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Inaba, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Villegas,
and Chair Kimball —7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Relinquish Chair: At this time, Chair Kimball relinquished the chair to Acting
Chair Inaba.
Return to Order The Acting Chair directed the Council to return to the order of business.
of Business:
Res. 353-23: TRANSFERS/APPROPRIATES AN APPROPRIATION OUT AND FROM A
DESIGNATED FUND ACCOUNT AND CREDITS SAME TO A DESIGNATED
FUND ACCOUNT TO PROVIDE A GRANT TO THE FOOD BASKET INC.
FOR THE PURCHASE AND INSTALLATION OF TEN SECURITY CAMERAS
AT VARIOUS PROPERTIES TO ASSIST ITS AGRICULTURAL SUPPLIERS
IN COUNCIL DISTRICT 1
Transfers $6,050 from the Clerk-Council Services —Contingency Relief account
(Council District 1); and credits to the Department of Research and Development,
Agriculture Other Current Expenses account.
Reference: Comm. 586
Intr. by: Ms. Kimball
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kimball moved to adopt Res. 353-23. Seconded by
Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. We're all aware of all the amazing work the Food
Basket does for our community, and particularly how integral they were feeding
our community during the COVID pandemic. One of the issues, though, has
continued to be with their regular suppliers. They are having issues with
agricultural theft, and so a couple Council meetings ago, some of us have
contributed funds to the Prosecutor's office for new scales, which will help with
the prosecution of agricultural thefts.
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
This particular CRF will help the Food Basket with providing some cameras that
can be distributed to their suppliers. Again, this is for Council District 1. So if
Food Basket has suppliers within your districts, this might be something you
would consider emulating as well. Thank you. That's all of my comment.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Any further discussion? If not, all those in
favor of approving Resolution 353-23, please say "aye."
Vote on Res. 353-23: The motion to adopt Res. 353-23 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Res. 354-23: TRANSFERS/APPROPRIATES AN APPROPRIATION OUT AND FROM A
DESIGNATED FUND ACCOUNT AND CREDITS SAME TO A DESIGNATED
FUND ACCOUNT TO ASSIST THE DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND
RECREATION WITH ITS HONOKA`A VALENTINE'S TEEN DANCE
Transfers $3,000 from the Clerk-Council Services —Contingency Relief account
(Council District 1); and credits to the Department of Parks and Recreation,
Recreation Division Other Current Expenses account($1,500) and Equipment
account($1,500).
Reference: Comm. 587
Intr. by: Ms. Kimball
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kimball moved to adopt Res. 354-23. Seconded by
Ms. Kagiwada.
MS. KIMBALL: Just asking for my colleagues' support to continue to support
safe drug-free events for the keiki in my district. We had a wonderful Hawaiian
parry in Papa`aloa. The Renaissance Fair in Honoka`a last week was amazing,
and then this is another event we're doing for our teens in February. So thank
you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. All those in favor of approving
Resolution 354-23, please say "aye."
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Vote on Res. 354-23: The motion to adopt Res. 354-23 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
Res. 356-23: APPROVES LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS AND PRIORITIES FOR INCLUSION
IN THE 2024 HAWAII STATE ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES LEGISLATIVE
PACKAGE
Includes four proposals relating to Family Leave, Tobacco Products, Traffic
Regulation, and Emergency Management; and nine policy priorities relating to:
(1) dangerous dogs; (2)the lawful sale or distribution of wild-caught ungulate meat;
(3)pathways for midwifery licensure; (4) extended producer responsibility to
address solid waste; (5) increasing access to mental health providers for youth in
rural communities; (6) financing of residential cesspool conversions; (7) insurance
coverage for properties located in Lava Zones 1 and 2; (8) insurance coverage for
communities impacted by wildfires, hurricanes, and flooding; and (9) managing
invasive species.
Reference: Comm. 589
Intr. by: Ms. Kimball
Waived: GOEAC
Motion to Approve: Ms. Kimball moved to adopt Res. 356-23. Seconded by
Ms. Kagiwada.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. This was waived from Committee in order to meet
the HSAC (Hawai`i State Association of Counties) legislative time lines. So it
does need to be approved today so that we can get it approved by all the councils
for the package. I just want to highlight, first of all, how amazing this Council
and Hawaii County has been in terms of contributing to the package this year.
All of these priorities have come from this bodyactually, three of the four bills
did come from us. The tobacco bill; the City and County of Honolulu, as well,
has the same bill actually coming forward. So, want to give us a little bit of a pat
on the back there.
One of the things that's here is this new bill from Maui County relating to family
leave. And since we have a lot of moms here on this Council, I think you guys
can all appreciate the importance of something like this. Somebody brought up
the fact that the County didn't have paid family leave, and I was actually
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
surprised. I didn't realize that that was something we did not have available to
our staff. So that was just the main addition. Everything else in this you have
seen before. But I'm expecting this body will have no trouble getting behind
support for a paid family leave, and just ask for your approval of this package to
forward back to the State Association of Counties Executive Committee. Thank
you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Mahalo. Any discussion on the packet? Council
Member Kierkiewicz.
MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I just want to take a moment to mahalo nui
Council Chair Kimball for taking on this additional kuleana and being our County
Council's voice to this body. This is a whole other additional set of work that has
to happen prior to and during the legislative session. So I just want to thank you
for taking the additional time. And it's so great to see that all of our priorities are
going to be carried forward by HSAC, and truly do support that addition by Maui
County as it relates to family leave. We found out the hard way very recently
when my council aide had her baby. So I'm grateful that we are ensuring that
there are proper supports in place for our hardworking County staff. I'll be
supporting the package. Thank you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder.
MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm going to second that. Ms. Kimball,
you're doing a wonderful job as a representative for our County at HSAC. Thank
you.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Thank you. I really am always surprised at how much work our
Council really produces. And so many times,people think it's just bills and
ordinances, and there's so much more to it. And I think today, in this package, it
just really shows how leadership and forwarding policies sometimes isn't just
here. We don't do it in a vacuum. It's not just the County, right. It's the
relationships with the other counties and the other mayors and the other State
Representatives in Congress. So I applaud the work of HSAC and applaud the
work of you representing us on that, and thank you so much. So I'm happy to
support. I yield.
ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. With that, there's a motion on the floor to
approve Resolution 356-23. All those in favor?
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Hawaii County Council-26 November 15,2023
Vote on Res. 356-23: The motion to adopt Res. 356-23 was carried by the
(Adopted) following voice vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
BILLS FOR The Acting Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
ORDINANCES Bills for Ordinances (First Reading).
(FIRST READING):
(Note: Items in this category were taken up previously, out of order.)
ORDER OF The Acting Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
THE DAY Order of the Day (Second or Final Reading).
(SECOND OR
FINAL READING): (Note: Items in this category were taken up previously, out of order.)
OTHER The Acting Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
BUSINESS: Other Business.
(There were none.)
ANNOUNCE- The Acting Chair directed the Council to proceed to the next order of business,
MENTS: Announcements.
(There were none.)
ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 3:08 p.m., Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder moved to
MENT: adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Ms. Kimball and carried by the following voice
vote:
Ayes: Council Members Evans, Kagiwada,
Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Kierkiewicz, Kimball,
Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba—7.
Noes: None.
Absent: Council Members Galimba and Lee Loy —2.
Excused: None.
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Hawai`i County Council-26 November 15,2023
ACTING CHR. INABA: The meeting is adjourned at 3:08. Mahalo.
Council Approval: DEC 2 Q 2023
CO. ,
JH/dg
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