HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN CRCOC 2024/01/23 (2022-2024) Committee on Communications,
Reports, and Council Oversight
20th Session
West Hawai`i Civic Center
74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A
Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
January 23, 2024
CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Communications, Reports, and
ORDER: Council Oversight was called to order at 11:57 a.m., in the Council Chambers,
Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Chair
Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Vice Chair
Ms. Cindy Evans, Member
Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member
Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member
Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz,Member
Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member
Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member(came in later)
Absent& Excused: Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member
STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items.
PUBLIC ON
AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to comment on Comm. 673, and came
forward when called by the Chair:
Jon Olsen.
Barbara Bell.
COMMUNI- The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business,
CATIONS: Communications.
Comm. 673: REQUESTS A PRESENTATION BY CAROLLO ENGINEERS, REGARDING
THE INTEGRATED WASTEWATER MANAGEMENT PLAN AND
RELATED COMMUNITY OUTREACH
From Environmental Management Director Ramzi Mansour, dated December 28,
2023.
CRCOC-20 January 23,2024
Motion to Close File: Ms. Galimba moved to close file on Comm. 673.
Seconded by Ms. Kimball.
(Note: At this time, Environmental Management Director Ramzi Mansour
and Dr. Can Ishida of Carollo Engineers came forward and provided a
PowerPoint presentation to the members of the Committee. For viewing
of the subject presentation, see the DVD copy of the meeting proceedings
on file in the Clerk's Office, or online at http://hawaiicounty.granicus.com.
A copy of the PowerPoint presentation is made a part of the record, see
Comm. 673.1)
MR. MANSOUR: Thank you,Dr. Ishida. We can open it up for questions and
discussions, and entertain any suggestions.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you. Questions, comments from my colleagues?
Council Member Evans.
MS. EVANS: Hello,nice to have you here. It's nice to have this discussion
because it's such an important issue. So;there are a lot of homes being sold up
and down the coast, so, I'm under the impression that at that point in time they
have to get off their cesspool, am I correct?
MR. MANSOUR: There was a discussion through legislation. They were going
to introduce a bill to allow the conversion at the point of sale. That did not go
through. I don't know if somebody's going to reintroduce it or not but it's very
strange topic to talk about,but the likelihood probably is going to get challenged
again.
The"why,"we've done this study to allow people. Also,prior to the sale, if they
know that they're going to connect to a sewer system, we could issue an
exemption because there's no reason to convert to a septic if you know that
potentially, you're going to connect to a sewer. There's no reason to pay twice
for it. We could work with the Department of Health to allow the exemption
because now we have a plan.
MS. EVANS: I would ask you to reconsider that because I have people that
aren't willing to convert because they think they're going to be forced into a
sewer. And of course,that might be six, eight, ten, twelve years to get a sewage
treatment plant by the time you get all of our environmental permits, and design
it, arid negotiate,and put togetheran improvement district, and on and on. I think
these people would do a conversion now,but they're not going to if they think
they're going to be forced.
Could we not put together some type of credit because a sewage or septic, for
example, maybe it's$45,000, 35-45 (thousand dollars)but maybe they're seeing a
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huge something much more significant to that if there's a sewer treatment plant.
So, could we not—and I don't know who would do this,but could we not give
him some credit because they did the right thing? I'm just saying that because I
know these people are telling me up in Puako, are saying to me, "Why would I do
it now when it looks like you're headed towards a sewer treatment?"
MR. MANSOUR: That's a great question. I think that's why we're doing this
plan to allow for the public engagement and get comments so we could drive
policies out of it.
MS. EVANS: Well,please note that or I can say that at your meeting, but I'm
concerned. How close are we to getting to the—so we have to do 2,000 every
year,how, close are we this year? I mean what did we do in 2023? Do you have
the count?
MR. MANSOUR: We don't because it's run by the Department of Health,but
we're definitely not doing that much on the County of Hawai`i. That's average,
about 65 to 70 conversions per day.
MS. EVANS: Okay. So, how many did we do in 2023?
MR. MANSOUR: The County,it's not County driven so it is run by the
Department of Health. The only time—we can find out, there's a conversion
when somebody gets a building permit trying to do a house improvement. The
Department of Health will dictate that anytime you get a permit to do
improvements you shall convert your system. So, we could work with the
Department of Public Works to find out.
MS. EVANS: I'm just curious. If you're in Public Works, someone says they
want to build one or two bedrooms,which means two more toilets, that will
probably trigger a revisit of their wastewater system. So,that's kind of a trigger
point. And then when that happens,,Public Works will notify Department of
Health in Honolulu and say, "Somebody's going to propose you a new system."
And Department of Health approves it or does Public Works approve it,but they
have to run it by the Department of Health in Honolulu?
MR. MANSOUR: Both entities work together with the engineer of the projects.
So they submit applications, the Department of Public Works will trigger them to
get a Department of Health permit on the septic.
MS. EVANS: Are you asking Department of Health how many conversions on
our island, can you ask them how long it takes for them to process the simpler
conversions? You know, it might be a septic system,but they have to make the
septic system bigger. It may not be a cesspool, but how are they getting backed
up,you know, do they have enough staff? Because, you know, if you're selling
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something, and you're planning to move to the mainland, and you've got escrow
and closing, are people—I just want to make sure people aren't not doing the right
thing because it's a timing—
MR. MANSOUR: No. We will. Just to let you know, as Dr. Ishida had
mentioned, there was a bill that was introduced last year to staff up the
Department of Health just because of this issue. I mean,think about it, 2,000
conversions per year just for the County of Hawai`i. That requires a lot of
staffing at the Department of Health, and that bill did not pass last year. So,
hopefully we'll continue working with Department of Health and legislators to try
to set up ourselves to success. Otherwise, as you know, 2,000 per year, it's a lot
and we needed to start this yesterday.
MS. EVANS: One thing in your plan that I don't see but I know that we've seen
it before is the priority area. So, everything being on the coast, everything being
"x"amount of feet from the shoreline, and then that being our priority area, which
I think gets us down into Puna and up along the Kohala Coast. So,if we prioritize
it,when we go into this integrated plan,we're going to see that broken out as
priority one, and then these are the steps or these are the efforts, and then priority
two. Is that kind of what we're going to be seeing?
MS. ISHIDA: Yeah, so we are looking at the updated prioritization that the
Department of Health did and taking that into account as part of the plan.
MS. EVANS: Okay. Any discussion about our congressional delegation and
them bringing money to the table? Is that part of—I don't know, you have a
funding part you say that you're coming out with. So, I'm kind of curious if the
funding would be in a partnership with our federal partners,you know, EPA
(Environmental Protection Agency), our federal partners; USDA(United States
Department of Agriculture),you know. Is that going to be like, we're going to
see the federal partners, as well as the State partners in terms of possibilities? Is
that going to—
MR. MANSOUR: We can both address that because we have the County of
Hawai`i, as Dr. Ishida has mentioned,responded to a Resolution HCR(House
Concurrent Resolution)208, with the hope that also could set up the ground for
funding because we have submitted a draft of a vision of how we're going to do
the conversion. And I think the intent was to set up the County of Hawai`i for any
potential funding through the State as well as the Federal. Go ahead.
MS. ISHIDA: Yeah. The funding topic I can share is pretty complicated,you
know,there's different ways to,convert, there's different funding that ties to that.
I can speak to the grant that Ms. Bell had referred to where Carollo is on a team
with the University of New Mexico Environmental Finance Center, who received
a national grant from the Environmental Protection Agency to look at
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decentralized treatment. So, we are looking at the community of Puako for a new
decentralized system or providing a planning level study of that area. So, there
are opportunities out there. This particular grant, you know, we pursued with the
University of New Mexico, we think real low. And so, there's many, many grant
opportunities, loan opportunities, different funding sources: U: S. Department of
Agriculture,NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration), EPA,
and really there's a lot of work to do to go and seek out these opportunities, apply
for them. You know, there's different agencies and organizations that are eligible
so it's a really kind of complicated funding scenario. You know, certain ones
where the County could be the lead applicant. Certain ones where, you know,
others; nonprofits need to be the lead applicants. So,the important thing is to
look for these opportunities to help the people that need these funds, whether it's,
you know, homeowners doing individual wastewater systems, the County
extending their sewers, it's a pretty complex topic to navigate.
MR. MANSOUR: In addition to that, we had a discussion with EPA yesterday
and they had mentioned that there's$2 million that got allocated to the County of
Hawai`i this year through Department of Health for cesspool conversion. So,
that's good news. Two million(dollars) could provide some conversion to
qualified homeowners.
MS. EVANS: Sounds like 2,000.
MR. MANSOUR: If you do it at, yeah—
MS. EVANS: 2;000. I guess the last question is, is it possible to identify who are
those nonprofits or those other groups who are working to solve this problem on
our island other,than just us? You know; is there other:groups seeking grants'?
You know, Puako created their nonprofit and they're working very hard at trying
to solve this. Do we have a bunch of that going on the island and do we know
who they are?
MR. MANS OUR: There is a few. I know WAI (Wastewater Alternatives and
Innovations) is very active statewide. They've been flying,meeting with our
community members. They have been the lead on technologies that could allow
conversions. They have invited experts to come to certain meetings, seminars,
and conferences, and they have done a lot to address that topic. They are
nonprofit,but they're the lead nonprofit in the State.
MS. EVANS: Okay. Thank you.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Council Member
Kagiwada.
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MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. So, I don't know if this is part of
Carollo's, you know, it might be your not Carollo's. But I'm a homeowner and
I also have a cesspool. I know at some point I'm going to need to pay to convert
to individual wastewater or connect with sewer or maybe one of these other
smaller, individualized community plants or whatever. I'm just wondering if
there's a way that we could help homeowners by collecting fees regularly now
that kind of builds a fund so that we all don't have to pay out of pocket at once,
which I think is going to be so expensive and challenging. Is there a way that you
can set something like that up so that you could have people like paying regularly
smaller amounts now to build that fund for when they do have to eventually
convert?
MR. MANSOUR: That is a great question. And I think Council Member
Kimball and I talked about it, and she had some plans to introduce, possibly work
with legislators to introduce legislation to address charging some fees that could
potentially go to pay for grants to help homeowners convert. In addition to that,
during the Cesspool Committee, over the last four years,we've talked and
discussed that issue during the committee as part of the Department of Health to
kind of set monthly fees so at least it could cover the cost of replacement for the
homeowners. And the challenge was, you know, is just getting through
legislation and get the people to buy off on that. Technically, if your cesspool is
going to cost you$45,000 or$30,000 to convert, so you only have 26 years
remaining. So, it's going to require you to set aside $90 a month now to be able
to convert. But the intent of what Council Member Kimball's proposal; it's a
lesser dollar figure that could benefit the people that cannot afford it. Council
Member can speak on that.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Okay, I guess that's a little different than my idea,but
alright. Thank you. I'm glad you discussed it and maybe there's some—
MR. MANSOUR: In addition to that, the"purpose" and the "why"we're doing it
now also, once this plan is completed, you could enter your address and the plan
will give you options. So, if we know that you're never going to get a sewer
connection, we're going to tell you now.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah. That would be super helpful.
MR. MANSOUR: So,you can plan.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yes.
MS. ISHIDA: I think one concept maybe that might address your question is an
on-bill financing option,if we look at the energy sector, you know, and try to
model them in some of their programs,they have some of those types of programs
for solar, for example. There's a lot to look at for those types of financing
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options. Some kind of an initial, you know, fee would help to start that kind of a
program. So, I kind of put us back to this slide on the recommendations; there's a
lot of workforce development, a lot of partnerships, a lot of conversations that still
need to happen. And I think that kind of initial,you know as stated, starting kind
of fund would help to shepherd those conversations and all that work.
MS. KAGIWADA: Okay. Alright. Thank you for that. Appreciate it.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Member Kagiwada. Council Member Kimball.
MS. KIMBALL: Thank you, Chair. As Director was talking about, we've been
working with Kaua`i County, and some of the legislators in particular, Nadine
Nakamura from Kaua`i as well on major place of legislation around cesspools for
this next session, and it's taking it down to the wire. It wasn't done as of
yesterday,but it's in progress.
Basically, the understanding is that we as the County and as taxpayers generally
are subsidizing the impacts of not addressing the cesspool problem through
various means. And so, the legislation at the State level would allow the counties
to impose a clean water protection fee of no more than what the sewer connection
fee, at least that's the language right now. What we're asking for the State to do
is give us the authority to then use that for any kind of program that particularly
helped the priority one areas; low- or moderate-income folks either to convert or
attach.
So, in the example that you gave earlier, we could develop a program by
ordinance that we do exactly that, and it's basically a savings plan. We collect
this and then it goes into a savings plan, and when the sewer is available you
could connect, or we just help use it to help low-or moderate-income families do
the conversions. So, it is something that we're working on. In order to be
eligible, the County is going to have to have an Integrated Wastewater
Management Plan. So it's great that we're on top of it,but it's something,
obviously the numbers that we're looking at, $1 billion, $14 billion is pretty
significant, and this program would only be a drop in the bucket.
One of the things that I shared with the Director is, through these conversations
with the State we're made a really important pivot, which has been for the longest
time the State's been like, "Wastewater is County. Wastewater is County, it's
their problem, they've got to fix it." We've finally gotten to the point where, it's
like, "Okay. This is an everybody problem." So this concept is the County is
paying a little bit, the State's paying a little bit, because they would do a match to
a collection and then the homeowners are contributing a little bit. So,
everybody's been put in play. So, this is something that we're working on as a
possible additional solution.
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There're other things that are in the works too with the cost savings of, you know,
a situation where somebody that builds it, maintains the land for us, we lease it
back from them as another option. Some of these alternative systems are out
there, too, that we are looking at for certain areas. I will also mention, we want to
be careful not to push people to convert to septic in areas that septic is actually not
going to be much better than a cesspool. And so, we have dealt another piece of
legislation, which is in certain substrates and soil types will require denitrification
as well. Fortunately, we can do that without too much additional cost. But in
young lava, for example, it's just going to percolate down with a septic system
just as much. That's another bill going through; I believe it's 1061, it does have a
number, it was finished in time.
But I did have a question for the Director and our consultants here. Has there
been any integration between what you're doing with the development of this
Wastewater Plan and the Community Development Plans (CDP's) and looking at
that aspect of that relationship?
MR. MANSOUR: Yes. Our plan and areas actually were in link with the
Community Development Plan: So, our Environmental Planner Kelly Hartman
has been working with the Planning Depaitnient in the language between
Planning and our consultant. So hopefully that addresses,based on what we have
currently on the books now as far as the Community Development Plan.
MS..KIMBALL: Great. Yeah, I would suggest as part of the outreach that one of
the avenues to consider as well, different communities have more or less active
Community Development Plan Action Committees. But I think that's probably a
really good avenue for this public engagement section. I yield, Chair.
MR. MANSOUR: Okay. Perfect.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Kimball. Anyone else? Okay,
with that—Ms. Lee Loy.
MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Chair. I don't have much to offer other than during the
community engagement piece, I've learned over time you've got to meet people
where they're at. So, when you invite them to someplace, sometimes they just
can't get there or it's at an hour or a time that they're in the middle of just being
families. So, I was wondering if this could be maybe a hybrid option where they
could participate via Zoom or other interactive means just to get that input? And
then even to that incentive piece where there would be funding set aside, you
know, at the State, I would highly,highly, highly encourage whatever legislation
that gets advanced for monies to be set aside. Just a few months ago, you know,
my community was strapped with doing a cost sharing for Department of
Hawaiian Home Lands (DHHL) to pay a cost share while they improve the roads
to make the sewer connection. That's where connection hinged upon other
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funding for DHHL to go get USDA, HUD (Department of Housing arid Urban
Development), or NAHASDA(Native American Housing Assistance and Self
Determination Act) funding to improve their homes. And so, as we look for
funding or funding sources or set aside monies, I want there to be a very clear
indication of what that funding does to access other loan and or funding options
for those who don't qualify for conversion or have other layers or jurisdictional
issues, where they can't access money at a traditional bank. And so all of those
avenues, you know, we look at fee simple properties,but we have others that are
under leasehold options, and I don't want them to get forgotten because
everybody's trying to do the right thing including our homestead communities,
which we know are very close to the shoreline. Thanks, Ramzi.
MR. MANSOUR: Point well taken. Thank you.
MS. LEE LOY: Happy New Year. Thanks, Dr. (Ishida), for being here.
MR. MANSOUR: Happy New Year to all of you as well.
CHR. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Lee Loy. Anyone else?
Alright. I just had a couple quick comments and a question. I want to thank you,
first of all, for being here and for taking the initiative to get us moving in this right
direction,which will align us with the opportunity for funding and support and
collaborative work with State and Federal enterprises. Sometimes misery loves
company and at least we're not;the only municipality and jurisdiction having to
navigate this. Although we are the largest if you consider that you can fit all the
other islands on the Big Island, it does make sense why we have so many more
cesspools.
Being a child of,you know, coffee shacks with outhouses, I remember very
clearly the tactile experience of what has now become a more modernized
toileting system. But I think it's interesting that in all these, I was just thinking of
the thousands of years that humans have been needing to manage our waste and
the diverse spectrum of ways that we have done that and how that has directly
impacted the health, safety,well-being,plagues, all these different things that
have landed on us and the rest of the world and the earth in general. It's due time
we clean up our messes and that we take the opportunity, it's going to be a heavy
lift, but we take the opportunity to identify more enlightened,more scientifically
inspired methods for dealing with our waste, both solid waste and wastewater.
I'm grateful that you've mentioned WAI,which is an acronym for Wastewater
Alternatives and Innovations, and it's also the Hawaiian word for water. And I
just wanted to—Council Member Evans, I'd be happy to turn you on to their
website and the work they're doing with,providing alternative options for smaller
treatment systems for homes. They're also operating a special program right now
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where they're offering three free conversions. And so, that's listed on their
website.
And then, I just wanted to put out there, you know, it's a new year and a lot of the
homeowner's associations here in my district are having their annual meetings
and I've recently been asked to share any updates that were available on our
cesspool conversion plans as a County. So,I'm going to hit you up to see if could
get one or both of you to join me at that meeting. But a synchronicity and time.
and, boy am I grateful for when that happens. This report and this initiative came
through right at this time, so I do appreciate that. And I'll be reaching out to you
for a potential time because I think that I know that these neighborhoods on the
west side, which are in priority zone 1, are really looking for insights on what to
expect and how to navigate this process.
You know, there's not necessarily a perfect way right now, I mean,and if there
may be but we can't afford it. So, what are the things not to do? And one of
those things that's been pointed out today is to prematurely go and get yourself a
septic system, which in one of the presentations I had been at with Department of
Health in my first.term. In a study they did at Puako, it directly indicated that
actually it may take a little longer,like a day. But with the septic system there
and the cesspool, they traced it right back into the ocean and there wasn't enough
difference to make it something they really wanted to push.
So, thank you for your leadership in this and thank you,Dr. (Ishida), for taking
circumstance, a situation, that's not that sexy, and reconfiguring it so that it can be
surmountable for our community so that our future generations that will swim in
our waters and drink our water will know. And the legacy we leave behind is that
of a safe, healthy environment where we cherish the wai and the kai.
MR. MANSOUR: Thank you.
CHR. VILLEGAS Thank you, guys. And with that, all those in favor of closing
file on Communication 673,please say"aye."
Vote on Comm. 673: The motion to close file on Comm. 673 was carried by the
(Filed) following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada,Kierkiewicz, Kimball,Lee Loy, and
Chair Villegas-8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder— 1.
Excused: None.
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ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 1:01 p.m., Ms. Lee Loy moved to adjourn.the
MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. Galimba and carried by the following voice vote:
Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba,
Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee.Loy, and
Chair Villegas—8.
Noes: None.
Absent: Committee Member Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder— 1.
Excused: None.
CHR. VILLEGAS' With that, the Communications, Reports, and Council
Oversight Committee is adjourned at 1:01 p.m.
Approved:
U2-01 . 1UL,L
Ms. Re ecca Villegas, Chair (Date)
Communications, Reports,
and Council Oversight Committee
RV/jm/tk
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