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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PCIA 2024/03/19 (2022-2024)Policy Committee on Infrastructure and Assets 9°` Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawaii March 19, 2024 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Policy Committee on Infrastructure and Assets ORDER: was called to order at 9:00 a.m., in the Council Chambers, Kaihia-Kona, by Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Acting Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Chair (via videoconference from Hilo; came in later) Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Vice Chair Ms. Cindy Evans, Member (came in later) Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Ms. Jemi Kagiwada, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member The Acting Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. The following individuals registered to speak in support of Bill 140 (Comm. 764), and came forward when called by the Acting Chair. Kevin Kushel. Timothy Rowan. (representing Black Sands Community Property Owners Association and Malama O Puna. Gilbert Hauanio, John Olson. ACTING CHR. KIERKIEWICZ: At this time, I'm actually going to transfer the chairmanship of this committee to my colleague, Council Member Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, because the bill that we are going to be discussing belongs to me. Let the reflect that I've passed the gavel at 9:08 a.m. Thank you. PCIA-9 March 19, 2024 Relinquish Chair: At this time, the Acting Chair relinquished the chair to Council Member Kaneali `i-Kleinfeldcr. ACTING CHR. KANEALI `I-KLEINFELDER: Please let the record reflect that I assumed the chair. Mr. Clerk, would you read in the bill for committees? BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Bill 140: AMENDS CHAPTER 20 OF THE HAWAVI COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO SOLID WASTE FACILITIES Requires that all solid waste facilities used for the disposal, collection, and transfer of household waste be operated and open to the public at least two days per week. Reference: Comm.764 Intr. by: Ms. Kierkiewicz Motion to Refer: Ms. Kierkiewicz moved to refer Bill 140 to the Environmental Management Director and the Enviroru-riental Management Commission. Seconded by Mr. Inaba. ACTING CHR. KANEALI`1—KLETNFELDER: Ms. Kierkiewicz, go ahead. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. Prior to this area of Puna becoming part of District 4, you know, my colleague, Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, really like helped to champion community creeds around ensuring that the Kalapana Transfer Station, which used to be open seven days a week, and is now only open one day a week, on Saturdays; just getting more service for our community. Since redistricting, this section of Puna is now within Council District 4, so continuing to wage that battle cry for more equitable access to this essential County service. For years, we have asked the Department of Environmental Management for one more day of service. This was something that our community also brought forward when Mayor Roth held his series of townhalls around the island, and to this day, years later, our lower Puna community still has access only one day a week, on Saturdays, from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. at the Kalapana Transfer Station. I see policymaking as a tool of last resort. We've asked many, many times in public spaces, in meetings, over entail and text for just more service, and to no avail. So, we are --our office is putting forth legislation that would establish minimum days of operation for a solid waste facility operated by the County. Page 2 PCIA-9 March 19, 2024 There were some folks that were testifying today and also written testimony but also would like to see adding in a requirement around recycling services so that it's certainly something that our office can put forward. But because this is a bill that would essentially change Chapter 20, before we can proceed, we need to have a recommendation from the Environmental Management Commission and our Environmental Management Director. So, today is really just a formality to get the process going. Looking for my colleagues' support on this. Thank you, I yield. ACTING CHR. KANEALI`I--KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Further discussion? Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you. So, do we have DEM (Department of Enviroiuriental Management) available today? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I don't see them. Okay, so you didn't request that they were here, right? Alright. Well, it sounds like there's several steps that deed to happen here. So, I'm looking forward to hearing what DEM has to say as far as tradeoffs. Obviously, by doing this there, there will be tradeoffs, the things they can't do unless we come up with extra staff and funding and all that to make this happen. So yeah, thank you for putting this forward. I'll be interested to hear what they have to say. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I--KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Ms. Evans. MS. EVANS: Thank you. Good morning, and happy spring, first day of spring. Yeah, it'll be great to see what happens in our budget hearings and how DEM is going to hopefully respond. It's shocking to hear your community keep asking for this and you have not received the response. I'm kind of hoping that starting next week they alight show for two days. They're getting the message that one way or another, you know, we're going to give service to this community. So, I'm kind of hoping that this lights theirs up and puts fire under it, and if they respond, we'll see because this will, you luiow, if it passes today, it will be in front of the Council. But you know, the department does have an opportunity to respond now. If they can, I'd like to see their respond immediately. Thank you, I yield. ACTING CHR. KANEALI`l—KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Council Member Inaba. MR. INABA: Thank you, Chair. Yes, in support of sending this forward and passing it. I think it's, for lack of a better word, shameful that some of our communities are not able to get the basic services that our County should be providing. So, I hope this comes back to us quickly and we can get it in Code, Page 3 PCIA-9 Marcus 19, 2024 and agree with Council Member Evans in that in the interim, hopefully, we can get that minimum three day a week service. Mahalo. ACTING CHR. KANEALI`l—KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I do want to note that Director Ramzi is actually on Zoom, so, it would be great to hear from him. Full disclosure, I did not collaborate with DEM on this. I think we've asked many, many times, myself, Council Member Kaneah'i-Kleinfelder, when this was his district, for support. We were told let's study this. There isn't enough trash being generated. I give kudos to our Puna community for being so mindful and trash conscious. They are ones to reduce, recycle, reuse, repurpose all of it, but Saturdays may not be the most convenient day for them to discard of their waste. So, just looking for more support for this community. You talked about lighting a fire, Council Member Evans, there are literal trash fires that are happening in the community because we don't have access to services. So, I think by establishing minimum days of service operation, that would tremendously help. Thank you, Director, for being here. Good morning, nice to see you. (Note: At this time, Enviromnental Management Director Ramzi Mansour came forward to address the members of the Committee) MR. MANSOUR: Good morning and thank you. Ramzi Mansour, Director for the —thank you for the opportunity. As I'm here before you today, I was not aware of this bill till last Friday, so it's pretty much hard for me to comment on it without talking to the Environmental Management Commission and our staff members. I know Council Member Kierkiewicz has been asking, and we don't mind providing services. As I always had mentioned, it's —we usually operate our business as our facilities in a business sense. I was looking at the record for that community since 2013/2014 fiscal year, and the amount the tonnage that is created, 400 tons to 500 tons max a year, a year. That means they generate about one ton per day, 40 tons per month. Our current trailer is sized 40 cubic yards, about 20 to 25 tons. That means it's going to take two months for that trailer to fill up, I mean two to three weeks for that trailer to fill tip. I mean we could do it, but we need the money for it. If you guys want to give us the money, we'll do the service. It's about just trying to run the business and the department with what we have from a funding and business sense. You know, services add to money, money add to taxes being raised. So, it's either property owners would be satisfied with property taxes going up because services are added, or somehow, we need to be able to fund it. Page 4 PC1A-9 March 19, 2024 The money we have within our department, we try to manage it with what we can based on the current population, and based on the tonnage generated for each community, and based on the distances between transfer stations within the County. You know, Mike Kaha, who's our Acting Chief Operations Manager, is also online, but like I said, he does his best to be able to manage with his equipment and his staff. And like I said, we're not opposing services, we're just managing the dollars we have within our budget. With that, yeah, I'd love to take the tune as you forward that to the department for review and comments and discussion with the stakeholders. Thank you. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Director, thank you so much for being here today and kind of sharing your mana`o on this issue. Really do appreciate the opportunity to have a more comprehensive discussion with you, members of the Environmental Management Commission, and also think about ways we can do things a little bit differently and be a little bit more innovative and creative in our communities to solve for our waste issues. So, really look forward to working with you a bit more intimately on this. Thank you, Chair, I yield. MR. MANSOUR: Yeah, thank you, in addition, I forgot to mention we are doing a Countywide solid waste operation analysis that also is looking at the landfill options. And just keep in mind we are the only County, within the State of Hawaii, that does not have a curbside collection. Curbside collection is being looked at as we speak through that study. City and County, there are almost over a million people within the City and County, and they get one -day service for their brown container on the curbside collection. Therefore, I mean, the study's taking place now, so there's a lot of things that are happening at the same time, and Council Member Kierkiewicz, I really appreciate your involvement and your recommendation. We always have to think outside the box, and we need to be very creative with the idea of continuing and providing services to our constituents as we had mentioned. Thank you. ACTING CHR. KANEALI`I---KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Council Member --- who's first? Council Member Evans, go ahead. MS. EVANS: Good morning and interesting to see San Francisco Bay behind you. I'm glad that you're looking at your Solid Waste program. I do not think we're at all like Oahu. We have so many challenges of distance and clearly, people that live out in rural communities that have these transfer stations, I mean I'm really taken back by, I think it's a public health issue. I think managing a Solid Waste station to make sure, you know, in terms of rats and other animals and just the sense of the community, if they know they have two days a week, sometimes people just can't get to the one day that you have open, they just can't Page 5 PCIA-9 Marcie 19, 2024 do that. So, I think having a second day makes a lot of sense and trying to get the community more used to the idea of dropping off their waste. I know I lived in a community that had solid waste seven days a week and that was Puako, and they got down to three days a week, which was Tuesdays, Fridays, and Sundays but they worked with the community to figure out what was the best day for the community to show up. So, I think having that community engagement and back and forth about what days are the best days, and then also, looking at your —I'm thinking more of a regional sense of how do you manage transfer stations in a region. So, maybe one of the other transfer stations, they just have to give up that day so the other community gets it. I don't know, but it's really about managing. I know, Ramzi, one thing I know, working with you over the Iast year, you always say it's money, we can solve any problem with money. And that's true, but the reality is we do have staff, we do have trucks, we do have community, and I think collectively, I really want a can -do attitude that we will solve it by collective thinking and getting people in the room and just figuring it out. And maybe one other community might, who knows, maybe they'll lose a day, but I do think one day a week in a rural community, and given the community has been really trying to bring attention to this, I think it's time to really focus on it. So, thank you, I yield. ACTING CHR, KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Council Member Galimba, MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. Hi, Director Ramzi, I do support this. I think it also would be a good opportunity and I'd really be interested if you could give us some of that financial data on what it costs to sort of have the equipment and staff for another day, just sort of a general, educational opportunity to understand the Solid Waste operation. So yeah, if we could have that when it comes back, I'd really appreciate that discussion. Thanks. MR. MANSOUR: Yes, definitely. ACTING CHR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thanks, I'll just second what my colleagues have asked for. I think we're just dealing with not having any information here. So, it'd be really great to just have a little more information and maybe that's —when is that study going to be completed? When do you expect that study to be completed? MR. MANSOUR: Well, the study is going to be completed by the end of October, but as we come back to you —the study is going to show the actual Page 6 PCIA-9 March 19, 2024 current operation, proposals, suggestions, and that may create policies and procedures. That's going to probably be by the end of this year because we had a challenge with having only one landfill on the west side, especially when we have the last potential eruption down Saddle Road. It was an eye-opener. How would we move waste from the east to the west if Saddle Road was shut down? And that's what got us into this operational study to rethink and see if our Solid Waste operation could be modified or recommend soiree changes to our transfer stations and our facilities. But if we need to come back sooner, I could definitely do the numbers pertaining to cost of each transfer station and the cost per ton and what we need to do. We did that for Oceanview last year when we had recycling for that community, and I believe it was around $500,000 per year, just for Oceanview for the additional service. Like I said, we don't oppose adding services. It's just we're trying to manage the dollars and the staffing and the equipment, and I do thank you for approving our equipment. Staffing is still —I know in the last three years, we really concentrated on staffing some of the Wastewater but in the equipment, from the Solid Waste perspective. But the Solid Waste Division, we have not really have been asking for staffing for that. We're trying to do within what we have because we were focused on getting these outdated equipment back on track, and yes, I would be more than glad to come back and give you some financial information so we all can make the right decision moving forward. The budget hearing is coming soon, so this is an opportunity. MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah, okay, thank you. Yeah, so I think coming forward, probably before that study is complete hopefully, with some information about, as you mentioned, staffing, equipment, and cost. But also, if for some reason you don't have additional staffing, as my colleague suggested, it would be really important for us to know if you were going to be pulling any service from other areas because of this need. So, thank you and yeah, looking forward to learning more about what the possibilities are and working on solutions. I think obviously, there needs to be a solution here of some sort. Thank you. ACTING CHR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Council Member Lee Loy, anything to add to the conversation? MS. LEE LOY: Thank you, Chair. No, I stand with my colleagues. I do support this bill. I support the route that it has to take going down to DEM and look forward to Ramzi coming back to us with a very filled out and a lot of information that will help us make good decisions. I do want to highlight and stand alongside my colleagues about some of the unintended impacts, and oftentimes, we use data to make decisions, but I just Page 7 PCIA-9 March 19, 2024 don't think it's right that trash sits for a whole week. It does sound like it lends itself to other problems like rats, and then what does that do to like our bird population and our native plants and animals? So, maybe that's also something, Ramzi, you guys can look at that at some point, there needs to be a balance, right, that it's not only a business decision on dollars and cents. It has to make a holistic sense for the entire community. So, those are my thoughts and look forward for it to come back from DEM. I always appreciate Council Member Kierkiewicz's bills. They oftentimes seem very simplistic, but they tend to provide a profound thought process that there's areas we can do better, and that community is also there to help and serve. So, thank you, in support. I yield. ACTING CHR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Okay, seeing no further discussion, Mr. Mansour, are you still there? MR. MANSOUR: Yes, I'm here. ACTING CHR, KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Yeah, as Council Member Kierkiewicz stated, both she and I have worked for this one. I, from my initial election, 2018, and then she's taken over the reins in the last year or so, and I'll be supporting measure. Questions for you, Director. Given the bill and the intention of the bill to require that all facilities --let me make sure I read this correctly —that any Solid Waste facility "used for disposal, collection, and transfer, of household solid waste shall be operated and open to the public for such purposes no less than two days a week." Are there any other facilities that are open less than two days a week, besides Kalapana? MR. MANSOUR: No, the answer is no. Kalapana is the only facility. Miloli`i closed, as you guys know because it was within a conservation district. Yeah, so Kalapana is the only one currently, yes. ACTING CHR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Okay so, this bill, if it were to pass, would then be only affecting one transfer station on our island, and that would be the Kalapana Transfer Station? MR. MANSOUR: That is correct, yes. ACTING CHR. KANEALPI—KLEINFELDER: So, I'm thinking just outside of Hilo, we have, I think one or two small facilities on the Hamakua Coast that I would say are similar in size to transfer stations as Kalapana. How many days are those open a week? MR. MANSOUR: I'm looking at a report and most of them three days, but they receive about 800 tons, double the amount of waste. And I think this is a great Page 8 PCIA-9 March 19, 2024 conversation because —I want to thank Council Member Kierkiewicz for bringing it up because that will allow us to look back at the entire system, all the transfer stations in Council Member Evans' statement that could potentially revisit the transfer station that has three days. Our staff would love to drop these to two because there's just the amount of —even though they double the amount of tonnage in the Kalapana area. And we do look —as our staff have changed these, they do look —the dollar figure and data is not the only decision making. It's distances to other transfer stations nearby that our comrrrunity member could still, on their way to supermarkets or to doctor appointments, they could easily carry, you know, utilize other facilities within the distance. Most our facilities are about 12 miles apart one way, so if you're going shopping, or you're going to see your doctor, that facility is usually is closer than your doctor appointment or your shopping end point. So, you can accomplish taking care of your waste with the facility that's around these communities, and that's what we look at. It's not like we say no, you're only going to have one day or three days. They have access to any facilities within the island seven days a week. So, we have 20 plus transfer stations, strategically located where everyone is so close to each other. So, anybody within any district could use the facilities any time of the day. So, they don't have to put their waste for a week if they're worried about rats and vector control. They could always, like I said, take that waste to the nearest transfer station, which is about, usually averages about 12 miles. So yes, we would love to look at that from that perspective. And I want to thank each one of you to bring it back because I know we're doing the study, but now, we could just concentrate on these and come back to you with numbers and maybe we can cone up with a solution that's beneficial to all. ACTING CHR. KANEALI`I--KLEINFELDER: Thank you for that, Director. Do you remember when because I don't believe it was always this way. There was a point in time in which the days were lessened to one day a week. Do you know when that happened or what was the precursor? MR. MANSOUR: I don't know. I've got Mike Kaha on the line. I don't know if he remembers. I know I was looking at records. I went back to 2013-2014, and our tonnage back then was like 444 tons per year, and I looked at last fiscal year and we had 417 tons per year. So, as you see from the last 10 years, the torniage has not changed at all. So, I don't know. From my understanding, I hear rumors that prior to COVID (coronavirus disease) or five years ago when they used to have three days, they dropped it to two days, I mean to one day, just due to lack of staffing and better managing what we have based on equipment and staffing and distances and what have you. So, I don't know the exact time when it transitioned. If you don't mind, my Acting Chief is on the line as well, maybe he Page 9 PCIA-9 March 19, 2024 may know the answer, or we could come back with the answer when we come back with the data. ACTING CHR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: I think that would be wonderful for the conversation to understand why we transitioned to one day a week and what it used to be. Was it tlufee or was it five? That would help us make a good decision and I think it'd be important for the Envirommental Management Commission and your team to discuss as well as part of the details of the bill. MR. MANSOUR: That's reasonable. Thank you. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I--KLEINFELDER: Thank you for that. Fin going to leave you with a parting comment. This one always sat interestingly with me. I think it was from Greg Goodale, who used to be in your department. I remember hearing this about different facilities, but when the idea is put forward that the tonnage doesn't move when you're open one day a week, there's only x amount of tons that come into the facility —and the logic is interesting because it's basically saying we're only collecting 417 tons and we're open one day a week. So, if we open two days a week, the number won't change, it'll be the same amount. There's some logic that doesn't work there. If you're open more days, you actually would collect more tonnage. That is my feeling and I've heard this again and again, you know, one day a week we have 400 tons, it's not worthwhile to open because that's all the rubbish that's going to be collected. That logic I don't think computes because if you open more days a week, it would stand that we would collect more tonnage. So, I just want to leave you with those thoughts. I've heard that again and again, and I never did agree with that statement. So, I do appreciate your time today. Council Member Kierkiewicz, thank you for bringing this forward and is there's any further discussion, Council Member? MS. KIERKIEWICZ: I just know when you brought up that comment that Greg Goodale made about the tonnage, we'll likely see an increase at Kalapana and a decrease in other transfer stations that folks are actually forced to go to because Saturday is not the most convenient day. I'm a parent. A lot of folks are parents in that community, and Saturday is sports day, so not always the most convenient time to be lugging trash and recyclables to the transfer station. So, really appreciate everyone's feedback, this discussion, and the opportunity to work with you, Director, your department, your staff, and the commission, to come up with some really great solutions for community. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. ACTING CHR KANEALI`i---KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Thank you, Director. With that, we have the motion on the floor —Mr. Clerk, we are making the motion to forward this to the Environmental Management Commission and the director for review, correct? Okay, motion is on the floor, all in favor? Page 10 PCIA-9 March I9, 2024 Vote on Motion to: The motion to refer Bill 140 to the Environmental Refer: Management Director and Environmental Management (Approved) Commission was carried by the following voice call vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Acting Chair Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. ACTING CHR. KANEALI`I—KLEINFELDER: Motion carries. That brings us to the end of our agenda. ADJOURN- There being no further business, at 9:38 a.m., Mr. Inaba moved to adjourn the MENT: meeting. Seconded by Ms. Kierkiewicz and carried by the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Inaba, Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, Lee Loy, Villegas, and Acting Chair Kaneali`i—Kleinfelder — 9. Noes: None. Absent: None. Excused: None. ACTING CHR KANEALI`I--KLEINFELDER: We are adjourned. Approved: SL/j nn (Date) Page