Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN GOEAC 2024/04/16 (2022-2024) Committee on Governmental Operations and External Affairs 30th Session West Hawai`i Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawai`i April 16, 2024 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Committee on Governmental Operations and ORDER: External Affairs was called to order at 2:30 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Ms. Cindy Evans, Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Cindy Evans, Chair Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member(via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member Absent& Excused: Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Vice Chair Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Member Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Member Relinquish Chair: At this time, the Chair relinquished the chair to Council Member Galimba. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: I'm taking the Chair at 2:30 p.m. Any testimony? STATEMENTS The Acting Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of FROM THE business, Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individual registered to speak and came forward when called by the Acting Chair: Chuck Flaherty: Bill 145 (Comm. 796), comment. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you very much. Clerk, would you like to read in Bill 145. GOEAC-30 April 16,2024 BILLS FOR The Acting Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. Bill 145: INITIATES AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE VI, CHAPTER 7, SECTIONS 6-7.3 AND 6-7.4; AND ARTICLE XVI OF THE HAWAI`I COUNTY CHARTER(2022 EDITION), RELATING TO THE WINDWARD AND LEEWARD PLANNING COMMISSIONS Adds a requirement that at least one member of each commission have experience or expertise in Native Hawaiian traditional and customary practices,Native Hawaiian law, or traditional Hawaiian land usage; land use planning, policies, and principles; land development and construction; or environmental science, environmental protection, or land conservation, and that each category be represented by a different member. Reference: Comm. 796 Intr. by: Ms. Evans (Note: Comm. 796.1, from Planning Director Zendo Kern dated April 15, 2024, transmitting a request to defer Bill 145 to the April 3-, 2024, GOEAC hearing.) Motion to Approve: Ms. Evans moved to recommend passage of Bill 145 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Villegas. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Council Member Evans. MS. EVANS: Thank you very much. You know, I really thought about this since I've been on the Council. I've had the ability to really listen to the appointees of the Mayor, and then our confirmation process and all the questions we ask. And you know, it dawned on me that I really wanted to read the Charter to see what kind of guidance we may have in the Charter. When I read it I realized we didn't have the specificity in terms of some of the things we might want to look for in the Planning Commissions. So, I looked at other Charters and I looked at other commissions and realized if there's certain specific qualifications that you want, it's pretty normal to have that in your Charter. So, I thought it was worthy of bringing it to this body, and I'm proposing four members, you know, each one having a specific knowledge; experience, expertise, that I think we would like to see on the commission. I also wanted to comment that the Planning Director of the Department of Planning was not available today, and we have three Council Members absent. So, it was my intent to postpone this bill until our next Committee Hearing, which is on April 30th. But we can continue discussion, or I'll look for the lead for approval from my colleagues if they want to continue this conversation. I yield. Page 2 GOEAC-30 April 16,2024 ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you. Hilo? MS. KIMBALL: Yes. Council Member Kimball here. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Thank you. First of all, I support holding this here in Committee until we have the full body present and can have the Director weigh in on it as well. However, I wanted to just give some food-for-thought to the author. I had a couple of comments. The first being, well just generally speaking, we've seen a lot of challenges with trying to fill seats on the Windward and Leeward Planning Commissions, as Mr. Flaherty mentioned. So we want to, I think, be careful about this in terms of potentially tying our hands when we're already struggling to fill those seats. With that sort of understanding in mind, I'd like to suggest that we possibly combine (c) (2) and (3). So, it would be "Land use planning,policies and principles; land development and construction," all as one set of qualifications that could apply to a candidate. Then for Number (c) (4), I do like the idea of somebody with an agricultural background or food sustainability, but I would suggest adding it to Number(4) instead of creating yet another required category. I would also just recommend in the language for (c), the words, "substantial experience or expertise," substantial has sort of a qualitative connotation to it, which I think, could potentially present a problem in terms of what is—we've run across this before, what exactly qualifies as substantial qualification. So, I would actually just recommend striking the word, substantial. Then we don't have that qualifier. Then finally, I just wanted to ask of our Clerk, you know, I presume LRB (Legislative Research Branch) did review this. I'm just curious if Section 3 is necessary at all or wouldn't it just kind of be understood that this would take effect moving forward instead of being retroactive as far as appointments. It just seems like a lot of extra language to add to the Charter, which we tend to try to keep fairly concise. I'll yield after a response from the Clerk. Thanks. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Council Member Evans. MS. EVANS: The Clerk is reading it right now, but when we looked at how they did it in Honolulu, the Charter amendment, seemed like you did have to have a transition period if you were going to start to require some qualifications. And we thought we should probably put in there to alleviate the confusion. But if there's Page 3 GOEAC-30 April 16,2024 another way to do it instead of putting it in the actual language of the Charter amendment, you know, I'd love to hear what the Clerk's thoughts might be on that. Thank you. I yield. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you. MR. HENRICKS: Acting Chair Galimba, may I provide some information? ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you, please do. MR. HENRICKS: Thank you. It's not uncommon for the Charter to include transitional provisions when something exists, and it's being changed. And you know, this is what Article XVI in the Charter is actually dedicated to. So, I think it's a good idea. And then in the course of reviewing this legislation, we did ask Ms. Evans to consider including some transitional provisions to avoid any ambiguities or you know, the implementation being misconstrued from what the Council's purposes were, and if the voters should approve this and the Council approves this and the voters do, that it would be implemented in the fashion that is anticipated. Then, in asking Ms. Evans, she did find transitional provisions within the City and County of Honolulu's Charter amendment that went forward that was approved by the voters, and these provisions are modeled after those. They are not exactly the same, but they are modeled after those transition provisions. So they seem to be fairly clear and will provide clarity moving forward, if this is approved by the Council then by the voters as to how Administration would then go about making the accommodations necessary for these changes. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL : Thank you, Mr. Clerk, appreciate the response, and I yield my time. Thanks. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. Appreciate this bill coming forward. I am supportive overall of the concept. In fact, whenever we do have people coming before us to be appointed to the Planning Commissions, that's kind of one of the things I'm always thinking about, is what is already the balance on the Planning Commission and what the new person will add as far as diversity and balance. So, in that kind of general sense, I appreciate Council Member Evans for bringing this forward. Page 4 GOEAC-30 April 16,2024 For me, it's more about who decides if that person has that or not. How do we measure it? You know, if you're going to list several things the person must have all those things present in order to meet the criteria or if they have three out of four, do they meet the criteria. There's just kind of a lot of I guess, how this will actually work in, you know, reality. Then, as mentioned before, the big I guess concern would be making sure that we are able to continue to get enough people to serve on our Planning Commissions and that we don't, you know, put ourselves in a difficult position where we're not able to find people because they somehow don't meet all these criteria. And we go months and months without being able to have meetings and we get a big backlog. So, I'll look forward to having a discussion with the Planning Director here and hearing more about how this might work in reality, as far as who determines if they meet these criteria. Is there going to be anything anywhere else written about the criteria? But really supportive of overall, the idea of having very diverse and well representing Planning Commissions on both sides of the island. So, I yield. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you. Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Thanks for the discussion and bringing this forward. We are in a time that we face some challenges with having quorum on our Planning Commissions. We're also at a time in our Council when I'm very proud to sit here and proud of my colleagues for recognizing the incredibly powerful position that sitting on our Leeward Planning Commission provides to people. I also want to remind myself and all of us that we don't necessarily see the log of all the people who have put in to serve. But we do hear from our constituents when they have put their names in the hat and have never been called. And the people that do get picked and brought before us, as we have recently experienced, have not been of the caliber of expertise, experience, and connectedness to this island to warrant being trusted in that position of power and leadership. So, I recognize some of the concerns here. I also want to remind all of us, we're the ones that decide. We're the ones that decide whether or not these people live up to the qualifications that you're talking about, and if we believe they're capable in alignment with serving our community. You know, being the Mayor of our County provides the opportunity to essentially put people on our boards and commissions, which are very powerful positions and they dictate and direct a lot of what happens. Page 5 GOEAC-30 April 16,2024 So I just want to remind all of us that we have that opportunity, we do carry that responsibility and privilege. And the Administration has the responsibility and privilege and duty to bring forth people that would be appropriate to serve and not skew those nominees, as unfortunately has been the case to certain skillsets that then determine—because our values are important. Our values influence our decision making, and it's really hard if you work in an industry or you have obligations or relationships in certain arenas, then you have to sit on a position and make decisions that may not be alignment with that. So, I think that it's fair that we ask people that have a broader spectrum of experience and expertise, and you're doing that in the language that you have recommended there. So, thank you for your consideration of not having a full Council here today, and also of the request of Director Kern to postpone. I think that we have some opportunity for some deeper conversations on this. But there's opportunity for improvement. Thank you, I yield. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you. Anyone else? Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you, Chair Galimba. To the maker of Bill 145, I like what you've done here. You actually put words and law behind what a member or multiple members will have as far as training, experience, and expertise, which is something that, as Ms. Villegas pointed out, is something that we all do from each Council Member's seat. We have that discretion via our vote for each person who comes in front of us for a nomination to each commission. And that really is the balance of power between the Mayor's Office and the Legislative body in ensuring that the community is being served by the folks on these different commissions. So by putting this language in, you really have helped to clarify the requirements that we have for a potential nomination or nominee to a board. And that's actually a very applaudable attempt, I think, and I appreciate that. I do have a question for Corporation Counsel. Is Ms. Strance there? ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Yes she is. She's coming up. (Note: At this time, Corporation Counsel Elizabeth Strance, came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. STRANCE: Good afternoon, Elizabeth Strance, Corporation Counsel. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Hello, Ms. Strance, how are you today? Page 6 GOEAC-30 April 16,2024 MS. STRANCE: Good,thanks. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Alright. Question, is there an overarching area of our Charter that handles all commissions or is it section by section? MS. STRANCE: There's both. So there's a general Section 13-4, I think, but it talks about appointments to boards and commissions. Then, there are some boards and commissions that are specifically established in the Charter or in the Hawai`i County Code. If there are boards and commissions created in the Charter, they're specific, and there are rules that have statutory construction that say a specific provision will trump a general provision. If the board and commission is set up in the County Code. The County Code provision cannot be inconsistent with what's in the County Charter, unless the County Charter states, "Unless otherwise provided by Charter or Code." So, that's the general construct. So, for example with these commissions, they're specifically provided for in the Charter. And these provisions would govern over any other general provisions in the Charter. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So, Section 13-4, that is Boards and Commissions, correct, in the County Charter? MS. STRANCE: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: The Planning Commissions, both Leeward and Windward would follow the requirements in Section 13-4? MS. STRANCE: Unless they're displaced by Section 6-7.3 or the other provisions surrounding these provisions involving the Leeward and Windward Planning Commissions. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: When you say displaced, meaning that there's language in there that refers away from Section 13-4 or adds more stricter requirements in that specific section? MS. STRANCE: Correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay, to the maker, some of these,just for reference, I worked on a Charter amendment for the Water Board years back requiring that the membership have Native Hawaiian law training and some other things as well, but that received positive comments. Although the Charter amendment didn't make it, that did receive positive comments from the Director of the Water Department. I'm saying that because some of these items actually Page 7 GOEAC-30 April 16,2024 would do well. Specifically, the Native Hawaiian law trainings would apply well to a number of commissions. There's no cost to do it. It's supplied annually or biannually by the Ka Huliau Center. And I've thought for a long time that it would be good to have all of our membership, given that Hawai`i has the unique land and water laws and public trust doctrine in the country, that it would be of the utmost to have all, or a large part of our commission members be required to have that training within"X" amount of time of taking on a position. So, that was where I was headed in that line of questioning, was whether this can be an overarching requirement, or if you're willing to take that on as part of this bill? But I like the intent of where you stand now with this. I just think this could be potentially bigger and do more good than just on the Planning Commissions. Ms. Strance, do you have any comment on that at all? MS. STRANCE: Just quickly. I'm not sure a Charter amendment is the most appropriate place to put those kinds of requirements in. You could put a provision in the Hawaii County Code. You could also, you know, if that sentiment is made known, our office can try to help in providing on-boarding training, in addition to the Sunshine Law and Ethics training that we do already. But if there was a preference by this body, I don't know if you need to send it out for a Charter amendment. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I appreciate that. If you'd like to work on that with me, I would appreciate that, Ms. Strance. I would caution that the power of this bill in front of us today is that it requires it from here on out. And I understand exactly what you're saying, but there is a beauty and a power to requiring things forever on. MS. STRANCE: I don't disagree with that, and I'd be happy to work with you. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you very much, Ms. Strance. That's my comments for the maker, and I did hear Mr. Flaherty and his testimony, and I think he was on point. But really do appreciate the bill and look forward to seeing this move forward. I yield. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you. Council Member Evans. MS. EVANS: I just have a question for Judge Strance. Sorry, I always call you Judge. Corporation Counsel, going back to what Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder just pointed out, could we put in the Code that all boards and commissions have to be trained in Native Hawaiian traditional law, which I know they offer that training. Every single year it's offered. Should we go that route or respecting, you know, what he mentioned is, do we go into the Charter and can we put Page 8 GOEAC-30 April 16,2024 something in there that says, all of our commissions and boards will have a member that has the Native Hawaiian traditional and customary practices and is familiar with Native Hawaiian law and land use? Can we go that route, so then every board and commission would have a member that has that? MS. STRANCE: That would be a policy choice on the part of this body. The more specific you get in the requirements, the smaller the pool would be. So, if you're looking for the expertise on the committee, that would be the tradeoff. One of the things that I understood Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder to say is, he wants to elevate the entire population of boards and commission members to have some understanding, appreciation, and training in legal and cultural issues. So, one way to elevate the entire body of board and commission members is to require certain trainings. For example, I think the State Legislature in the last couple of years has mandated ethics trainings for all employees, boards and commission members. And that's something that,you know, this body could consider it as well. You know, and so, I think it really goes to what expertise you want on a board and what basic standards of background and understanding you have. That way, if you require training of everybody, everybody will at least have some common vocabulary and sensitivity to certain issues. If you're looking for expertise, normally, you're thinking that a particular board and commission is dealing with a subject area that would benefit from a certain expertise that may not be held by everyone. So with the Planning Commissions, you know, they routinely are required to address cultural impacts. So, balancing the commissions with somebody that has that training may be a policy decision this body wants to make if the policy consideration this body wants the members of the public to consider is to have everybody know how to ask questions of those people with expertise coming before the commission, then you would want training for everyone. But these are the policy decisions that this body is making, and then with the Charter amendment asking the community what they would want rather than deciding yourselves. MS. EVANS: Alright, thank you for that conversation. So, Chair Galimba, I'll yield right now. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Okay. Anyone else in Hilo, have any comments or questions? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Chair, sorry, one more comment. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Go ahead. Page 9 GOEAC-30 April 16,2024 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I've heard the concern now that we may be limiting our pool of potential applicants or nominees to these different appointments by requiring these things. I would also offer to the body that we can require some of these things within a certain amount of time of taking a position, which doesn't preclude any current member of any of these commissions or boards from having some of these trainings while they are sitting on the board and commission. So, they would be in compliance with this law without having it need to be after they leave their current position. Thank you. ACTING CHR. GALIMBA: Thank you. Anyone else? Seeing none, Council Member Evans. Vote on Motion to Ms. Evans moved to postpone Bill 145 to April 30, 2024. Postpone: Seconded by Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder and carried by (Approved) the following voice vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Kagiwada, Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder Kimball, Villegas, and Acting Chair Galimba—6. Noes: None. Absent: Committee Members Inaba, Kierkiewicz and Lee Loy-3. Excused: None. Relinquish Chair: At this time, the Acting Chair relinquished the chair to Chair Evans. CHR. EVANS: Okay, so I resumed the Chair at 3:05 p.m. ADJOURN- There being no further business on our agenda today, Chair Evans MENT: adjourned the meeting at 3:05 p.m. We're adjourned. Approved: 02—Lk/2-Y- Ms. Cindy Evans, Chai? (Date) Committee on Governmental Operations and External Affairs CE/dt Page 10