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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN PCPLUD 2024/04/30 (2022-2024)Policy Committee on Planning, Land Use, and Development 14th Session West Hawaii Civic Center 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Building A Kailua-Kona, Hawaii April 30, 2024 CALL TO The regular meeting of the Policy Committee on Planning, Land Use, and ORDER: Development was called to order at 2:19 p.m., in the Council Chambers, Kailua-Kona, by Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Acting Chair. ROLL CALL: Present: Ms. Ashley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair (via videoconference from Hilo) Mr. Holeka Goro Inaba, Vice Chair Ms. Cindy Evans, Member Ms. Michelle M. Galimba, Member (via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Member Mr. Matt Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Member Ms. Heather L. Kimball, Member (came in later; via videoconference from Hilo) Ms. Susan L. K. Lee Loy, Member Ms. Rebecca Villegas, Member STATEMENTS The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, FROM THE Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: The following individuals registered to speak and came forward when called by the Chair: Keith Kato: (representing Hawaii Island Community Development Corporation) Darryl Oliveira: (representing Hawaii Island Housing Coalition) Bill 152 (Comm. 822), in support. Bill 152 (Comm. 822), in support. BILLS FOR The Chair directed the Committee to proceed to the next order of business, ORDINANCES: Bills for Ordinances. PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 Bill 152: AMENDS CHAPTER 5, ARTICLE 1, ARTICLE 4, AND ARTICLE 7, OF THE HAWAI`I COUNTY CODE 1983 (2016 EDITION, AS AMENDED), RELATING TO PRE -APPROVED PLANS FOR RESIDENTIAL DWELLINGS Adds a definition for "multi -family dwelling", and amends the plan review fee schedule specific to pre -approved model plans for residential dwellings. Reference: Comm.822 Intr. by: Ms. Kimball and Ms. Lee Loy Motion to Approve: Ms. Kimball moved to recommend passage of Bill 152 on first reading. Seconded by Ms. Lee Loy. ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah. Thank you, Chair. I think that our testifiers have, you know, clearly identified the need and benefit for this simple Code amendment. It's pretty straightforward. We are just adding the opportunity to have pre -approved plans available for multi -units. So, this would be duplexes, quadplexes, beyond, that could be just taken off the shelf and used. Again, for potentially going after funding, these would be available to present as part of those project scopes and also just expediting the process. We all know that housing is a critical issue. Multi -family housing does present a great way to increase density and prevent sprawl. So, just ask for my colleagues support in moving this forward. I did want to identify, there are a couple of editorial amendments in here too that just address the changing nature of how permits are processed through DPW (Department of Public Works), including not needing to provide two sets of plans as well as the seal and signature. We're taking out the requirement of wet signatures. So, happy to ask any questions. We do have Building Division Chief Julann Sonomura here if there are any questions for the Building Division. Thank you, Chair. I yield. ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Alright. Before we open it up to discussion, then I'll just ask our Building Division Chief if you would like to make any comment at this time before I open it up to members of the Committee. (Note: At this time, Public Works Building Chief Julann Sonomura came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MS. SONOMURA: Hi. Julann Sonomura. Building Division Chief. I believe Kelly Wilson is in our West Hawaii Office if you'd like to say a few words as well. But we're asking for support of this ordinance. We think it would be a benefit to our community to be able to get out housing faster. I would like to distinguish between pre -approval and that what helps us is in the permit Page 2 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 processing, to have a pre -approval that the design professional obtained, and when in use it would have to go to particular sites. So again, it's not just a blanket approval that design professional have to say it's okay for use on this particular site. So, there are still controls for this program and able to answer any questions you may have, or Kelly, if you want to say something? (Note: At this time, Public Works Deputy Building Chief Kelly Wilson came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. WILSON: Sure, I'll chime in. Currently, the program we have is just single-family dwellings. And in the past, the variety that have applied for these are contractors, several of the supply houses that have package homes, they've gone ahead and got pre -approvals on some of those. We've worked with them, we've suggested to them that they design it so that it can be placed anywhere on the island as far as the wind speed and the seismic loads, and they've stepped forward and they've done that. So, they're helping the community; they're working with us, and this does help the housing. Currently, I can't off the top of my head tell you what the valuation is, but I'd say most of them are under $300,000 in the valuation. So, that is affordable housing. And we do ask for your support. Thank you. ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. We'll start over in Hilo. Any discussion there? MS. GALIMBA: Chair, if I could? ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Galimba. MS. GALIMBA: Thank you. Yeah. I think this is a brilliant tweak, really good. I think it will be really helpful. I did just want to ask sort of around that sort of valuation question of actually, not so much the value of the houses, but the value of the time saving. Time is money. So, how much time would this tweak change for our housing providers? And since Mr. Wilson is there at the table, I'll direct that to him. MR. WILSON: I thought you were trying for me. Currently, when the pre -approval packages come in there's no time limit on those for review because they are under review and it's all due to how the design professional submits their packages. We've had a couple where we've had ask for additional information and have certain things addressed. Others have been able to go through on the first review. In the case of larger multi -family, like the program we've got going up the hill from us, we had to sit there because it was paper plans at the time, and go through each one, where had that been a pre -approved package, we would've done that Page 3 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 and currently as written, the Building Division has six days to review and stamp the plans for approval. And so basically what happens is they'll submit the plans that have already been reviewed, had a pre -approved number assigned to it, and then all we would look at is how it is sited on the property to make sure that it is within the setbacks so that we do not have to ask for a firewall because it's too close to property, things like that. So basically, most of the time when they come in for the building review or the permitting, it's done within six days and the only thing thereafter generally, is DOH (Department of Health) for waste system, and possibly engineering, is how it's been for the single-family. For the multi -family it will be similar. So, it should be a quick turnaround. And with these, when it goes to building, their timeframe is set by the intake clerks so that we know that we do have a short period of time on it, and it is responded to appropriately. Thank you. MS. GALIMBA: Thanks. I just wanted to be clear about that. So, with the pre - approved single residence models, you have six days to look at that. Is that right? Right. Okay, thanks. The division director is nodding her head, so she's answering my questions over here. Thanks. And I yield. ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Kierkiewicz. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you, Chair. I'll be supporting this bill. You know, I want to take a moment to acknowledge Council Member's Kimball and Lee Loy for really just a very practical solution, and just being able to cut through that bureaucratic red tape and get more houses onto the market to address the severe housing shortage that we facing here in the islands. So, I think it's a very smart move. And if it's something that the Building Division is able to add to their workflow, it's really wonderful. I'm curious to know how many folks take advantage of the current process of pre -approved plans for single-family dwellings? If there are statistics you could provide, Kelly, I think it would just kind of illuminate how advantageous this program to date has been. MR. WILSON: I apologize. I did not query that number before coming over. Currently, the number of pre -approval designs for this Code cycle is around 40, because it used to be that it was only good for a year. That was changed a few years ago so that it would run with the Code cycle. So currently, we're on the 2018 Code, so we still got a few, another year or two on that. And so, we're trying to get it so we go every six years rather than three years. So, if the state will join on with us with that one, we'd like that. And then these would be available for an even longer period of time. Page 4 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. That's helpful. I'd love a little bit more data, maybe at first reading, just historical overview and use of this pathway. I'm also curious how folks would know what sort of options are available to them if they wanted to go through this route. Is there, you know, a webpage through Building Division's website that identifies all the different pre -approved options? And again, wanting to just understand how folks in the community would take advantage of this opportunity. MR. WILSON: Currently, it is not listed on our website because these have been submitted by the design homes or housings. And so, they actually have the rights to it. The architects, it's their plans. So, they are advertised through HPM (HPM Building Supply), Honsador (Honsador Lumber), Argus (Argus Building Supply); they each have them. A couple of general contractors have their own and so they make it available to clients when they're talking with them. We have been asked, and so we'd have to get their approval first to be able to list these. It is, I believe, noted on our website that this program is available, and we have had RFI's (Request For Information) asking for the listing of pre -approved holders. So, we'd have to work that out with Corporation Counsel as far as actually listing it on our website. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Thank you. I don't necessarily think we need like the building plans, but if there are certain companies that have been granted this ability, I think it would be great to say, "Okay, community, if you're interested, go to these businesses and organizations to have conversations about what your options are." Because I understand that kind of information, the building plans, may be proprietary. But again, wanting to make it easy for our community to know what options are out there. Just a suggestion. MR. WILSON: I know personally I have given out the names of HPM, Honsador, Argus, and if they ask for more, then I'll clear it with the contractors that hold the permits to see if it's available if they would like to work with the people. MS. KIERKIEWICZ: Okay. Again, just going to be advocating for a simple list to be on the website just in case folks aren't able to or comfortable calling. You know how some people are. They just want to google and find the information rather than talk to a person. Anyway, getting in the weeds. I support all the work that's gone into this. Thank you. I yield. ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you, Council Member Kierkiewicz. Coming to Kona. Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Go ahead. Council Member Evans was before more. ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Evans. Page 5 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 MS. EVANS: Thank you. I'm just kind of thinking about the details of the bill and how it could be interpreted and used. I'm looking at definitions and the proposed language is saying multi -family dwelling means any building that contains more than two dwelling units. The current definition in Chapter 5 says dwelling unit means a single unit. But then when you get into dwelling, it says dwelling means any building that contains one or two dwelling units used. So, the current definition of dwelling has two dwelling units. And then this, multi -family dwelling means any building that contains more than two dwelling units. So, this is more than a duplex. So, this multi -family is not duplex. This definition is definitely not duplex because it's more than. So, the current situation is your department can have model home, I guess you can call them model homes or spec homes, and they're single or duplex based on the definition of the current definition of dwelling. MR. WILSON: No. In the past, per the fee schedule, it specifically singles out the single-family dwelling. And so, for that fact we've not been able to do duplexes. MS. EVANS: Okay. But I do think we have a conflict in the definitions, just so you know. MR. WILSON: I understand. We've had a lot of confusion within the definitions. MS. EVANS: Yeah. So, we probably should take a look at that definition. The other thing is, again, like you said, maybe the fee schedule is kind of helping define what your current situation is because of the definition. But your fee schedule is interesting to me that you want to keep the fee schedule the same and not treat them any different. MR. WILSON: There's been a correction because in the past there was no allowance per the fee schedule for residences under 900 square feet. We have had and have allowed efficiency dwellings, which is basically 220 square feet plus space in front of counters and that includes your living space and your restrooms. And so, we have allowed for spaces, you know, residences that have been under the 900 (square feet), but there's been no fee for it. And so, by going to the changes presented, that would allow anything from a small efficiency or a tiny home can be pre -approved and then used multiple times clear up to the larger multi -families that —what's your largest unit up there? Three floors, four or six per unit, per floor? Yeah, so we'd be looking at a good size structure that could hold, you know, maybe 20 families. Page 6 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 MS. EVANS: So, in Waikoloa I have two examples. There's one where they built five buildings that were eightplexes. So, if you had eightplex and got it approved could you consider that a model that could be repeated over and over again? So, could that eventually, could then you decide, this one we're just going to qualify this one. So, that means the builder could come in for the first one, get that all approved and then he is fine for the other ones because I guess if you don't do this that means each building goes through its own review separate from the first building. MR. WILSON: You are correct. I reviewed the development that you're talking about, and each building came in as a separate structure. It had to be reviewed separately. That was the good old days, the paper plans. So, each set of plans had to be signed and stamped individually. This, we'd have one set electronically reviewed, and up there I believe they had eightplexes and D-plexes (Duplex). And so, I believe the eightplex might've been used 12 times. So, that would've saved him a lot of time because we could've pre -approved that, they could apply, and we would've had the permits out a lot faster. MS. EVANS: So, yeah, I'm just struggling why even if five buildings, they're all the same, they're eightplexes and each time it comes in, people just —it goes through the department, and they have to comment on each one of those. And so, this will change that? Because I was reading the language and it said it still had to get all the approvals. MR. WILSON: That would be from the Department of Health, Engineering, and of course Land Use. MS. EVANS: So that would continue to have the approvals? MR. WILSON: They will still have for each permit. MS. EVANS: Right. MR. WILSON: We're approving the structure as presented for the multi -families. And so, we will be the residences are of certain size, then we do have to add in our electrical reviewers and our planning reviewers, but that would still be under the Building Division and still have the time limit. MS. EVANS: Right. I've never heard of a model or a spec eightplex. Now I've heard it for duplexes and maybe fourplexes. But when you get to the larger ones, it's almost an apartment building. It just seems like you're this is kind of leaving it wide open. Page 7 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 So then the next example I have is the ones that are next to the Waikoloa Plaza, he's building 50 of these I believe. He's got 50 of them going up and they're three stories. How many units per floor? MR. WILSON: Okay. That's the lofts over there? MS. EVANS: Yes. MR. WILSON: Well, they've got two versions. One has three units in it because there's one per floor. The other would have six because they are conjoined by a stairway. Because they were multi -family, they could not be pre -approved. Under this bill or change in the ordinance, we could review it once and they could keep going with those and that would speed up their process for construction and permitting. MS. EVANS: Does it affect the amount of money that the owner -builder has to put out? MR. WILSON: Generally not because like for the HPM homes, HPM, Honsador, Argus, these contractors, they're the ones that are paid these fees here that's in the table. And how they are recouped by the design firms, I don't know. But for the amount that's being charged for the fees, I don't think any of that's been passed on to the owner -builder. MS. EVANS: So, what they're saving is this cost to have a stamp? MR. WILSON: No. The stamp is on the plans, yeah. They're all either stamped by an architecture structural engineer, as required by the Code, and so that's all taken care of. And then when they go for the pre -approval, the only thing that has to be signed and stamped would be the site plan to show how it sits and that would be by the same architectural engineer. MS. EVANS: Okay. MR. WILSON: So, it should be saving them money as far as the design professionals. MS. EVANS: What it is saving is time. MR. WILSON: Yes. MS. EVANS: But it also puts people in front of other people who've got their stuff in your building, in your Building Department, because you have that criteria that you have to approve it within six days. Page 8 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 MR. WILSON: That's correct. MS. EVANS: So, it does reprioritize the workload. Okay. I got one last question. I noticed that it appeared, and I may have this story wrong, but appeared from reading it that FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) was working with a model homebuilder in California, and they were going to bring in a thousand of these model homes to Lahaina and put them up to try to get people into housing. And the Governor spoke up and said these are not the kind of homes we want in the community of Maui. So, I guess the bigger question is, is there any sense of what is or isn't acceptable? With these spec model homes, would they be considered, I mean, some of us call them mobile homes. We do have tiny homes on wheels right now. But, you know, I guess are we just kind of opening up the door a little bit to that scenario where the Governor and then we're pushing back to what FEMA wants to do. MR. WILSON: Okay. The tiny homes you see on wheels currently on island are not permitted, and there's getting to be —well, there's obviously more than a few hundred. But none of those have gone through for permitting. Any that you see are illegal installation and an illegal construction because they have not gone through the permitting phase, and they have not been reviewed. We do have one submittal who are three different versions, and we are working with them. And what they are supplying would be —actually what they're proposing is manufactured in China. And so, because of the manufacturer there and the metrics to American measurements. There's been some give and take there, and especially requests because we need to be able to review it and make sure that they are a manufacturer that is licensed and they are inspected at the source, and so far, that has not happened. Tesla has a version of theirs that basically just comes out and folds up, and you have a house in a short period of time. Amazon has that. Neither one have approached us, but they are on our radar. So, they would have to be able to meet our wind and seismic restrictions, and so far, that has not been met or has been requested to be by them to be submitted. So, so far, we don't have any mobile homes or legal tiny homes on wheels. MS. EVANS: Okay. And the other one is the one that you create from the cement. What is that one? MR. WILSON: The 3D printers. MS. EVANS: The 3D printers. They're here. There's a couple of them up I understand. Page 9 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 MR. WILSON: None that's permitted. We have not permitted any yet. We had inquiries and the design professionals are trying to get those approved. However, so far, we have not been able to have in supplies with an ICC (International Construction Code) evaluation that would qualify into our seismic because we are, you know, on the other islands they may be able to because they have lesser seismics. But here we have the D and the E. And so, those are the good rock and roll as we all know. That's basically the hold back there. MS. EVANS: Okay. So, what I'm hearing is your department can say no? MR. WILSON: According to most of the public, that's all we say. MS. EVANS: And I'm just saying that because I see many people come in with little different models coming at you saying, "This is our model, this is our model. Will you accept, will you accept?" MR. WILSON: We'll review them as submitted. MS. EVANS: Yeah. MR. WILSON: And if they meet code, then we'll approve them. MS. EVANS: Okay. Alright. I yield. ACTING CHR. INABA: Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Hi, Kelly. Thanks for being here today. If I could just bother you to just speak up a little bit more in the microphone. End of the day, I think all of our ears are getting a little tired, too. Go ahead and push the button. But I just had a couple of questions, and maybe this is for the makers. I mean, we're at this pivotal time where we have this transient accommodation legislation that's currently with our Planning Commissions and causing lots of interesting conversations, and a lot of confusion amongst people because there in that legislation is included perimeters identifying whether or not you could use your `ohana; you couldn't live in your `ohana and rent your house. So, you know, all these different nuances that are pretty specific but that are challenging how people in the community feel and how comfortable they are with how specific those details are. So, I just, I suppose for me, as much as I completely agree we need more housing, here when I just read the definition, you know, contains more than two dwelling units intended or designed to be built, used, rented, leased, let or hired out to be occupied, or that are occupied for living purposes. So, I just see another gray area of a type of structure or building that's being built that would be put up that I Page 10 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 wonder if we're setting ourselves up for more complications as far as the short- term vacation rental bills are, and I wondered what your thoughts might be on that. MR. WILSON: There's a separation there. That would have to be addressed by the Planning Department as far as what's allowed on that property. Once they say yes or no, then they come to us, and we tell them how to build and what they can build. So, how that is used after it's constructed would be covered by the Planning Department and they would have to, if it was to be used for short-term vacation rental, it would have to go through the proper steps and applications with the Planning Department. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. MS. KIMBALL: Chair, if I may respond to Council Member Villegas' question as the maker? ACTING CHR. INABA: Sure. Go ahead. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah, thank you. Mr. Wilson's comment is correct. There's a pretty fine distinction between this, which is approving the pre -approval plans and the mechanisms within the proposed TAR (Transient Accommodation Rental) legislation about how going forward, folks would be able to utilize their dwellings as transient accommodations. And I would be hesitant to tie the two together too tightly at this point and time because Bill 121 is still being negotiated and I think we're going to have amendments by the time it comes back to us, being suggested by Planning Commissions. So, I just want to keep the focus, you know, hereon this concept of pre -approving plans. The registration as a TAR will apply similarly to how it would apply to currently permitted duplexes. It's not going to touch that or multiplexes. The one thing I wanted to highlight, and this is in response to Council Member Evans' question as well, is that this definition of multi -family is actually coming from the IBC (International Building Code). So, we did pull it from the preferred language around this particular type of dwelling. Thank you, Chair. I hope that cleared things up. ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Villegas. MS. VILLEGAS: Thank you, Council Member Kimball. Hopefully, that can be the way it pans out in a perfect scenario. I guess my other question was, and you have already sort of touched on it and, you know, having gone through our Building Codes, approvals, and a lot of the challenges we've navigated there, and listening to our community and the construction community's concern for essentially you know, the elephant in the room is special treatment for certain Page 11 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 factory -built housing companies on the island or in the state. And that's what I hear from people, is that legislation's being created to serve their interests. So, I appreciate your mentioning a number of different opportunities for a number of different companies. When you mentioned something about China, I was a little confused. Were you talking about these homes coming from China? MR. WILSON: We do have a gentlemen that has currently submitted three different applications and the product would be coming in from China. And that's the one we're going back and forth with because we need to work with their design professionals to get more information in order to qualify to be able to be, you know, constructed on island and that it does meet our seismic and wind conditions here. MS. VILLEGAS: And then it would be inspected again on island when it's put together? MR. WILSON: Yes. MS. VILLEGAS: Yeah. I remember that hellish week going through all the different code requirements. Okay. So, I just, I don't know, I just feel a little uneasy about this. I suppose it's because I can't quite see around the corner on some of the things but there are a couple of things that just don't feel quite right. So, I'm just having a couple of hiccups on it. And perhaps we could talk offline, and I could work through some of those challenges that I'm having because unfortunately, just with my experience, going between Building Department and Planning Department and, you know, as much as the silos are trying to get broken down, it doesn't always happen. And yet, I want to be in complete support of us getting more housing, the adequate housing at the right price point but also with the right quality, so it's not going to fall apart once it gets here, right? MR. WILSON: That's right. That's our goal, too. That's why we have to stand with the codes and the requirements that they set forth. And in the ICC and the ICC evaluation reports, that's what we require, and we'd require from any factory that tried to do manufactured homes, bring them on under this provision. MS. VILLEGAS: And the same for manufactured homes here on island. MR. WILSON: Yup. MS. VILLEGAS: Yup. MR. WILSON: Currently, there's no factory on island. MS. VILLEGAS: There's no factory on island that does multi -family? Page 12 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 MR. WILSON: That is correct. MS. VILLEGAS: Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. And thank you for your patience with my —I'll admit, very novice understanding of these things. But, as in this role we have to take into consideration our constituents and the people that come to us with questions and concerns because we want to make sure we're moving forward with as much integrity and forward thinking as possible. So, thank you. I appreciate it, Mr. Wilson. I yield. ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thanks, Chair. Kind of trying to ground everybody in this piece of legislation. Currently, what we have is a pre -approval process where you're building a single-family residence, which is only permitted in a specific zoning district. What we're trying to do is tailor in another option, which provides housing for multi -family people, affordable housing, which is housed in a specific zoning district. So, when we talk about maybe offering unfair advantages to different organizations, it all starts with the zoning. Zoning tells us where; building tells us what we can build. So, for my colleagues, and I've heard the questions from Cindy and Rebecca, this multi -family option for a pre -approval exists if the zoning needs it. So, some of the concerns about short-term vacation rentals, if the zoning allows it, the zoning allows it. What we're trying to help is people like Mr. Kato, who could take a project, pre -approve multi -family plans, get them done within six days, and go to construction. It's just that simple. And to my colleagues point about whether they get in front of other plans, these plans pay a specific fee and are replicated over and over and over again. It's the same plan and the only thing that changes is the site plan, whether it's in Waikoloa, whether it's in Hilo, whether it's in Kona. And all we're trying to do is simplify the process. What I know to be very helpful for the Building Division is these pre -approved plans have been looked at already, speeds up the pipeline of housing to get the permit done quicker so they can focus on plans that are more unique and or suited to very unique conditions. This is stick building. This is not modular. We don't have that here. When you get a pre -approved multi -family plan, they're going to put it together piece by piece. Is that pretty much the broad strokes of what this piece of legislation does for us, Kelly? MR. WILSON: As current construction techniques are on the island, that would be correct. MS. LEE LOY: I would encourage my colleagues to go talk to Kelly, talk to Julann. What we're only trying to do is reduce the barriers to housing especially for people like Keith Kato, and other programs that we know can expedite Page 13 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 housing at an affordable rate to put people in housing. I also like this plan because when we talk about multi -generational families, because that's what people can afford, they have to live with their parents, or they have their grandparents or aunties and uncles living with them, this is the kind of plans that they need to have. I would encourage my colleagues, go talk to Kelly. But this is really a simple edit that opens up opportunities for housing, and I just don't see the special interest because I have a list of not only design houses but contractors that have taken advantage of this, paid the fee, and go build houses for families that need it. Thanks. I yield. ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. I want to make note that our next Committee was supposed to have started four minutes ago. So, we'll continue our discussion but kind of see perhaps, where there might be some confusion. But yeah, if we can try and keep our questions concise and then our answers as well. Thank you. Council Member Kagiwada. MS. KAGIWADA: Thank you, Chair. I like the direction this is going. Opening up for more affordable housing, I see not only Mr. Kato but Mr. Nishimoto here, and appreciate the work that both of them do to that end. And going back to what my colleague, Council Member Lee Loy said, I hope we can actually get past single-family zoning definitions in the future and maybe that would help clear up some of this confusion. But for now, one question I have, if people doso, this is going back to the zoning kind of thing again. And so, maybe it's a new point if we're only talking about multi -family in multi -family zoned areas, but I did just want a quick clarification for people who might be listening too, is if for instance somebody wants to put an ADU (Accessory Dwelling Unit) on their property, could that be a pre -approved plan, and if they want to do a second ADU, could that be the same plan? MR. WILSON: It could be the same plan used a couple times, yes. But the placement of the ADU or multiple ADU's would need the Planning Department's approval. MS. KAGIWADA: Of course. And we know Health Department, all that gets involved there. Okay. I just wanted to clarify that. I do think this is going in the right direction and I'll be supporting, and I hope, you know, maybe Planning, we can follow suit with like I said starting to get away from the single-family zoning. So, that designation might just help us all. Okay. So, thank you so much. To the makers, really appreciate this change to our Code. Thank you. I yield. ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. Okay, couple questions for you, Mr. Wilson. I'm not going to last question anymore. I'll try not to because I always say that I then I get like ten more questions. Okay. So, looking at the Page 14 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 definition. Multi -family dwelling means any building. Building has its own definition in our Code meaning any structure used or intended for supporting our sheltering use or occupancy includes but not limited to any structure mounted on wheels such as trailer, wagon, or vehicle which is parked or stationary for a 24 hour period, not including very small trailers that are used for like food trucks and things like that, correct? MR. WILSON: That is correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So, multi -family dwelling means one of those buildings, right? It means any building; building is our definition of building. MR. WILSON: Yes. That would be. Yeah. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And this is going to be two dwelling units, which has its own definition in our Code, meaning a single unit providing complete independent living facilities for one or more persons including permit provisions for living, sleeping, eating, cooking and sanitation. There's a lot of redundancy in the definitions that we have here. I'm wondering if the makers want to address that. Multi -family dwelling means any building that contains more than two dwelling units. And we have dwelling and dwelling unit defined as well as building in our Code already. So, we may or may not need to be so redundant. The reason I'm saying that; I'm listening to the conversation today, thinking down the line with what I just described, dwelling units, multi -family dwelling meaning this could be then, prefab homes, and could be trailer -mounted homes coming in that could house two or more families, correct? MR. WILSON: Yes, it could. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. And you're saying there's no factory on island producing any form of prefab housing? MR. WILSON: That is correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. MR. WILSON: We have one that gets permits, that's builds, constructs a unit. They've only doneI don't know how many, they were for HOPE Services. But they were permitted specifically for that TMK (Tax Map Key) and then they had to get moved and set to move to another TMK. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Well, we can't see the future. We can't see the future, so we don't know what's coming. Page 15 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 MR. WILSON: That is correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Okay. Fair enough. You know, I'm thinking about this planning discussion. So, if we have a pre -approved plan for two multi -family dwelling, meaning two families can live in two separate units; in this pre -approved plan that any contractor or factory built housing manufacturer could make, that can only be on multi -family zoned properties. MR. WILSON: That'd be correct. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So, if someone in Puna wanted to build a pre -approved plan that allowed for a living space for two families, and we called one an `ohana unit and one a main living unit, that would not be permissible; that wouldn't fall under multi -family dwelling? MR. WILSON: They'd be permitted two separate structures. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Two separate structures? MR. WILSON: Yes. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: So, it couldn't come under a multi -family dwelling in that sense? MR. WILSON: Not if they're independent, not if they're single-family units. I believe the current ADU language is being proposed, specifies for single-family or let's interpret it as single-family, and it's limited in size compared to what would be considered a main house. But that's not to say that somebody, if they have the right zoning, could put on two, basically the sizes of ADU's. I know of one realtor in the Hilo area, he has one property that I believe we've put 12 houses on because his zoning allows it. It's a large piece of property and per the zoning of it, I forget exactly what it is, but each house has to have a certain amount of square footage over on the lot, whether it was 7,500 or 10,000, I forget. But in that case, they do have multiple homes on one TMK, but that's allowed by the Planning Department. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Could these multi -family dwellings be used for the purposes besides long-term rentals? MR. WILSON: That would be up to the owner. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: It would be, correct? MR. WILSON: Yeah. Page 16 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So, I'm having a hard time then extricating short-term rental and long-term rental. Although that was discussed previously, I cannot take those apart now because it's up to the homeowner what they want to do with their multi -family dwelling, meaning they could live upstairs in the unit and rent out the downstairs as a short-term vacation rental. They could do multi -family dwellings like Mr. Kato has testified to, and I can see the benefit of that. But I cannot take these apart any further because they can be used for that? MR. WILSON: Correct, if Planning allows it. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: If Planning allows it, meaning property that can allow that via zoning or via the land use. They can have a short-term vacation rental, they could have two family dwellings, they could have ten families living within these dwellings, I mean, whatever's allowable, correct? MR. WILSON: Whatever is allowed by Planning. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. Thank you. Okay. You've answered my questions. Thank you. Mr. Kato, can you help me with something? Or Mr. Nishimoto. Either one of you wonderful gentlemen. Okay. So, you testified to it; interested to know where you see the real benefit of this for the different things that you do in your field? So, this is me understanding you and how you perceive this affecting your business model? (Note: At this time, Executive Director of Hawaii Island Community Development Corporation Keith Kato came forward to address the members of the Committee.) MR. KATO: Your question is how would this benefit what we do? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Yeah. How does this make this easier? Does it benefit, you know, how does it benefit your owners or your properties in the future? MR. KATO: Yeah, in a couple ways. One of them is it would just speed up the permitting process, you know, for the second time you're building a building. You know, right now we could build the same building twice, but we'd have to go through the same building permit review process twice. This way we would get to go through the building permitting process once and then the second time it would be quicker. So, that would be a benefit. It would just speed things up. The other is to be able to represent to funding agencies that our building plans are already approved. And that is significant, you know, because all the funders are looking for projects that are ready to go. You know, they like it shovel -ready so Page 17 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 to speak, and this would get us maybe not exactly there, but a lot closer. So, that would be a benefit from our standpoint. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Okay. So, quicker processing time through the County, quicker standup times, I mean, given construction. Down the line, we don't know what the benefit would be because we currently don't have any factory built housing here on island. But if we ever did get that up, then we could use prefab houses to standing up on more for multi -family dwellings, properties, correct? MR. KATO: I'm not clear what your question is, Sir. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: I'm looking at the benefit for the bill for folks in your business kind of model area and how this stands to affect you and ultimately, how we stand up more homes for people to live in because I think that's the goal as provided by the makers. So, it's good to hear your comments on that. MR. KATO: Okay. Yeah, sure. So, you know, like we just discussed, it will speed up the approval of the second or the third or the fourth, if you're going to build the same building. And, you know, I think it just makes our projects or any project that uses this process more attractive for the funders. Whether it's an actual private project or a government funded project, everybody's looking for something that can get started sooner, get finished sooner. I mean, it doesn't really do much more than that. It just speeds things up. MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: Thank you. ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you, Mr. Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder. Is it a quick question, Council Member Evans? If not, I want to chime in. MS. EVANS: Yeah. I think it's a quick question. So, I just wanted to be clear because you know the Code so much better than me. What we're talking here is residential dwelling, would a condominium, someone who builds 50 condominiums and there's a dwelling unit within each condo, and they all look the same, right. Would this apply to that? MR. WILSON: As presented, yes. MS. EVANS: Okay. And then how about apartment buildings. If someone built an apartment building like the one in Waik6loa that has maybe 12 or 16 units in it, as long as they get that first apartment building approved then this would just have it go through quicker because you've already seen it once. MR. WILSON: Yes. That is correct. Page 18 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 MS. EVANS: Okay. And then, Mr. Kato, have you used the singlecurrently, you can do the model plans for single-family residential. Have you used it? MR. KATO: Yes. We have used it quite MS. EVANS: You have. Okay. Thank you. I yield. ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you, Council Member Evans. Alright, a few questions. First. Well, maybe some comments first. I do think that there —where do I start with this. I think I support the intention. I think there's room for cleaning up with the way the definitions are being used. First of all, the whole thing is on model plans and pre -approval. Nowhere can I find what a model plan is, and I think it's implied but the fact that this whole thing is based on model plans, and we don't have a definition of model plans that I could find in this section of the Code, I think, you know, we can work on that. Pre -approval, I guess it runs with model plan, we should define it is what I think. Secondly, Council Member Kierkiewicz brought up this idea of making plans available that have been pre -approved. I hear what you're saying, you know, that some of these designs are owned or whatever by certain organizations. But then, it makes me question whether or not —so, yes, it does benefit some people, but it benefits the people who go to the organizations who already have the preapproval. And then, those organizations then get this benefit if the organization themselves are going to be developing also. So, I don't know, I just want to see where there might be room. If it's just, we only can provide the names on the websites for people to contact then maybe that's the best we can do. But I think that we should be providing that because if not then really like where's the benefit except for the people who got the plans approved themselves. And then in looking at the definitions. So, heading to this definitions conversation. In this Section 5-4-21, we're saying model plans for residential dwellings, there's maybe some redundancy because there is no term for residential dwellings in our Code, but we're talking about —it seems like dwellings would do the job but that's where I think we just have some clean up. And it's not language that's being changed in the bill, but its language that in light of us touching this section, I think maybe needs to be cleaned up. And same thing, when we're going to use the term with defining multi -family dwelling, but then in the context of the bill itself, we're seeing residential multi -family dwelling. So, it might be repetitive between those. And then, just as a housekeeping matter, I guess, when you look at the fee structure table, we're talking about County of Hawaii Department of Public Works, Building Division, pre -approved, and we're saying it three times. But I don't know who else is preapproving it except for the Building Division in this case. So, just that one, maybe more so, just a cleanup of language there. But I Page 19 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 think that I support the intention, I just don't think the definitions right now are working because we're defining things but then we're adding words in front of them in the body of the bill. So, if we could get that cleaned up, I think it would really help to maybe even ease some of the confusion that's going on right now. So, why don't —hear from to the makers of the bill and see how you folks would like to proceed. I preferably want to hold it just so we can get this cleaned up in Committees and then head on from there. But Council Member Lee Loy. MS. LEE LOY: Thanks. Yeah, I'll work with Ms. Kimball. Keep in mind and Kelly can confirm this, a lot of the terminology and definitions actually point back to a larger set of Codes, like the IBC (International Building Code), like the IRC (International Residence Code), like the IECC (International Energy Conservation Code) and so many other codes that this is derived from. And so, I'll definitely take a look at it because I heard two of my colleagues mention the repetitiveness. But we want to make sure that we crosswalk the definitions and terms to the appropriate code that changes every three years. Kelly, can you work on that with us? ACTING CHR. INABA: Thank you. Council Member Kimball. MS. KIMBALL: Yeah. Thank you, Chair, if I may? And thank you in particular for your recommendations. I will say that my office did some of that preliminary cross walking of these definitions, and there are distinctions between dwelling, dwelling unit, multi -family dwelling, and there is essentially a purpose and function for all of them. We did actually do a draft of this where we took out the terminology model plans because I appreciate based on past discussions, some of the concerns and associations that are made with that term. I think that there's a version of this that we can produce at the next hearing, which is just to take that language out. I can't remember or recall why we made the decision to just keep it as is. And then I appreciate like the other residential, yes, of course, that would be repetitive based on the definitions that we have there. So, willing to look at those editorial amendments. I just want to make super clear that this bill, this addition, does not grant the Department of Public Works the ability to permit anything that they wouldn't already have the ability to permit. It just expedites that process by having essentially off the shelf plans available that they've already examined and said we are okay. It still needs to be reviewed against the zoning of the particular site and any other conditions that exist on the particular site where these dwelling units would go, which then leads me to responding to Council Member Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder's questions about `ohana dwelling units in HPP (Hawaiian Paradise Park) or Fern Acres. I want to just highlight that those areas are actually state land use ag, and accessory dwelling units are not permitted on state land use ag. You can only do additional farm dwellings. That has a whole other set of state laws and codes associated with it. Page 20 PCPLUD-14 April 30, 2024 Similarly, with respect to vacation rentals, our current Code that was created under Bill 108, prohibits any short-term vacation rentals that are un-hosted from being in residential ag lands. You know, that is already going to be controlled through the zoning. This really only deals with the structural side of things, and again, doesn't grant DPW the authority to permit more than they are already able to permit under the Building Code. I'll leave the rest for later. But my suggestion, with respect to the Chair's recommendation to hold it I see the suggestions made this far is primarily editorial. I'd prefer to just move this on to first reading, and I can present these editorial amendments at that first hearing. That would be my preference. It sounds like in general that folks are favorable with some tweaks to the language. Thank you. MS. LEE LOY: Chair, if I could follow up too, regarding your request about notifying the public of these various plans that are available or off the shelf, as we like to call them. I want to lean in on Corporation Counsel because I know there's some nuances about advertising on a government site that prohibits us from basically either advancing someone else's business or vice versa, right, blackballing somebody else's business. And so, I'm hearing you guys loud and clear. I think we want to broadcast to a larger community that these things are available and can get, you know, pulled off the shelf and you can have a permit in hand within ten or twelve days, right, if everything looks good. But I do want to circle back on that advertising piece before moving that forward. ACTING CHR. INABA: So, Corporation Counsel, if you could have an opinion when we discuss this bill next. Sorry, I just want to clarify that I'm understanding that we've been talking about this six day turn around or a turnaround in the permit and where some of these pre -approved plans would jump the line, can you please just refresh so I understand it correctly, Kelly? MR. WILSON: Not sure how to define jumping ahead. Per the ordinance, we'd be required to look at those during that timeframe. Since the plan had been approved, basically all we'd be looking at would be the siting. So, it should be a quick review once it does open up in our building section and then that wouldn't really take that much time away from all the others all currently in line. I'll have to check with our plans examiners to see about how many of these we are seeing already submitted. If we can just guesstimate a monthly count, that might be helpful for you so then you'll already know how many are going through faster than to normal time submittal. ACTING CHR. INABA: Okay. Got it. Thank you. MR. WILSON: You're welcome. Page 21 PCPLUD-14 Apri1 30, 2024 ACTING CHR. INABA: With that, honestly, I think I stated my preference on a hold in Committee. Doesn't seem like —seems like everybody's okay then. So, we'll take the vote on the motion to forward Bill 152 to Council with a favorable recommendation, all those in favor please say "aye." Any in opposition? MR. KANEALI`I-KLEINFELDER: No. ACTING CHR. INABA: Mr. Clerk, roll call vote, please. Vote on Bill 152: The motion to recommend passage of Bill 152 on first (Approved) reading was carried by the following roll call vote: Ayes: Committee Members Evans, Galimba, Kagiwada, Kierkiewicz, Kimball, and Lee Loy --- 6. Noes: Committee Members Kaneali`i-Kleinfelder, Villegas, and Acting Chair Inaba ---- 3. Absent: None. Excused: None. ACTING CHR. INABA: That brings us to the end of our agenda. ADJOURN- There being no further business, Acting Chair Inaba adjourned the meeting MENT: at 3:31 p.m. Appr Ms. iley L. Kierkiewicz, Chair Policy Committee on Planning, Land Use, and Development AKltk ��� (Date} Page 22